The Incomparable

233: Selective Amnesia


  this episode of the incomparable is [TS]

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  the incomparable number 233 februari [TS]

  welcome back everybody to be [TS]

  uncomfortable podcast I'm your host [TS]

  Jason Snell and I'm convening a special [TS]

  edition of our comic book club i guess [TS]

  i'm joined by comic book club stalwarts [TS]

  Lisa Schmeisser Monty ashley and Andy an [TS]

  odd co we're not actually talking about [TS]

  a particular work in this in this [TS]

  episode work we're going to be talking [TS]

  about comic book continuity and [TS]

  storytelling and business decisions made [TS]

  by large publishing conglomerates [TS]

  regarding their intellectual property [TS]

  which actually i think is a really [TS]

  interesting topic where you know I a few [TS]

  weeks ago Marvel Comics announced that [TS]

  they were going to be doing a kind of [TS]

  capping off a story arc from their [TS]

  Avengers comics and doing something new [TS]

  that was going to lead to a new status [TS]

  quo and they were going to do another [TS]

  secret wars miniseries and oh and you [TS]

  know and it seems like shut down the [TS]

  Ultimate Universe and maybe do a soft [TS]

  reboot of the existing marvel universe [TS]

  and of course a couple years ago DC [TS]

  Comics did the same thing with something [TS]

  called the new 52 after their flashpoint [TS]

  miniseries and actually as we record [TS]

  this the today DC Comics announced that [TS]

  they're doing another kind of thing that [TS]

  is not the new 52 but it's like the old [TS]

  25-22 or something like that [TS]

  these are big companies obviously [TS]

  Marvel's owned by disney and DC Comics [TS]

  is owned by Warner but i just i think [TS]

  it's interesting because we've got comic [TS]

  storytelling and then we've got [TS]

  corporate intellectual property and then [TS]

  we've got kind of like marketing and [TS]

  stunts that are used to sell comics and [TS]

  i wanted to i want to talk about it i [TS]

  wanted to start by just saying i am [TS]

  actually a big fan of ultimate [TS]

  spider-man so i guess since nothing else [TS]

  has ever been successful in the ultimate [TS]

  efforts that makes me a fan of The [TS]

  Ultimate Universe and and I like the old [TS]

  ultimate with Peter Parker and then they [TS]

  killed him and brought back there [TS]

  created Miles Morales is actually a fun [TS]

  alternate spider-man and so from that [TS]

  perspective it's a kind of a milestone [TS]

  for me what Marvel's doing because it [TS]

  seems like they're finally sort of [TS]

  saying yeah we don't need that anymore [TS]

  it's also true that a lot of the [TS]

  influence of the ultimate [TS]

  universes already been felt the marvel [TS]

  cinematic universe is very ultimate spot [TS]

  in Ultimate Universe and the mainstream [TS]

  Marvel Universe has maybe in like how [TS]

  did we not mentioned curious black he's [TS]

  black now so they've done all of these [TS]

  things to kind of adopt that so on that [TS]

  level i'm i'm sort of sad that that this [TS]

  interesting experiment is coming to an [TS]

  end i also am i I've got a lot of [TS]

  trepidation about the idea that they are [TS]

  revisiting the secret wars because i was [TS]

  a I was a comic book reader when the [TS]

  original secret wars happened and it was [TS]

  kind of from a storytelling standpoint I [TS]

  mean yeah spider-man got a cool new [TS]

  costume and all it was kind of a [TS]

  disaster [TS]

  it was like I feel like it was one of [TS]

  the original comic book event disasters [TS]

  and so to see them replaying it you're [TS]

  talking about the series that got me [TS]

  into comics because you're here is and I [TS]

  know that it was inspired to sell it to [TS]

  the celebrate new toy line synergy it [TS]

  was we can sell comics and and toys that [TS]

  level synergy football for that but you [TS]

  had you had one event that said we're [TS]

  gonna sample elements of everything that [TS]

  we publish and put these characters all [TS]

  together into one storyline that last [TS]

  for exactly 12 issues that will tell a [TS]

  complete story from the beginning middle [TS]

  and end and has all these really cool [TS]

  moments in the middle of it i will tell [TS]

  you exactly the page that became that [TS]

  turn me into like a fan of comics and [TS]

  that's where dr. doom has stolen the [TS]

  power of Galactus this good this cosmic [TS]

  character that destroys planets so that [TS]

  he can fight another entity that is the [TS]

  entire the embodiment of an entire [TS]

  universe because he is dr. do when he [TS]

  figures well I bet I can steal his power [TS]

  to and he fails in about a microsecond [TS]

  not just failing but he is just being [TS]

  torn apart molecule by molecule in this [TS]

  amazing page being drawn by Mike sec in [TS]

  which you see this this guy you've been [TS]

  following for about eight issues nine [TS]

  inches so far the real master plotter [TS]

  and schemer of just this guy with a [TS]

  nobility and ability to execute a plan [TS]

  and this one page that I remember the [TS]

  dialogue is being it's possible that now [TS]

  that i'm being torn apart molecule by [TS]

  molecule by force i can barely copy [TS]

  and much less fight against this might [TS]

  not have been a good plan next panel [TS]

  wait a minute [TS]

  the fact that i came up with this plan [TS]

  meant that it has to be a good plan i'm [TS]

  gonna stick with this let's talk to do [TS]

  and and i'm looking into what happens [TS]

  the rest of the issue but that's what I [TS]

  i want to know more about this guy [TS]

  I i know that I'd seen copies of [TS]

  Fantastic Four before that little lately [TS]

  Kirby issues and like later leaker be [TS]

  issues [TS]

  none of them really got me to really [TS]

  find out what is more than about this [TS]

  guy that said in a way that's totally [TS]

  not arrogant it's just that you look [TS]

  mean I have such confidence in my plans [TS]

  of what I did that even though that now [TS]

  I'm literally being dissected by this [TS]

  universe that is trying to figure out [TS]

  what it is that makes me so crazy [TS]

  that's just what maybe into a fence it [TS]

  had its desired effect on you which is [TS]

  it provided you with a sort of a sampler [TS]

  of what they had and that was n [TS]

  attracted you to try it and it got you [TS]

  into it right is this is this is less a [TS]

  diatribe like defending secret wars as [TS]

  an explanation that every series that [TS]

  somebody absolutely hates might be that [TS]

  series that not only just somebody like [TS]

  but got somebody to flip them from not [TS]

  being a fan of comments to somebody who [TS]

  would you be coming to the complex shop [TS]

  every single week Jim shooter not really [TS]

  great with dialogue you mean value of [TS]

  art is kind of subjective and highly [TS]

  personal it's not absolutely positive [TS]

  once that this podcast is over having [TS]

  said that secret war two was awful that [TS]

  was really atrocious yeah but I like [TS]

  secret war because you had no masses of [TS]

  villains and heroes fighting and it's [TS]

  very straightforward you know my [TS]

  pharmacy roars I mean Jim shooter not a [TS]

  really great writer of least great [TS]

  dialogue guy I'm it although he was the [TS]

  editor-in-chief Marvel during the time [TS]

  when i was reading all the Marvel Comics [TS]

  part of my problem with it is that i [TS]

  read contest of Champions which was a [TS]

  three or four issue miniseries a couple [TS]

  years before which was the whole idea [TS]

  was what if we had a big tournament with [TS]

  all the heroes and villains and they [TS]

  fought each other and it was kind of a [TS]

  really cool mini series although if you [TS]

  read it carefully you realize that the [TS]

  writer got confused about the score and [TS]

  although was a victory for one side over [TS]

  the other if you actually pay attention [TS]

  to the issues it was a tie [TS]

  oops uh um some of the real problems but [TS]

  the problem I [TS]

  and i think is a reader when Secret Wars [TS]

  came around is that I felt like you guys [TS]

  already do this story and they just did [TS]

  it again but it wasn't it was it was in [TS]

  many ways this incredibly influential [TS]

  comic event and around the same time DC [TS]

  did crisis on Infinite Earths which was [TS]

  you know I was always a Marvel guy but I [TS]

  always felt like the the crisis was [TS]

  about continuity in a way that secret [TS]

  wars wasn't and that was the value I I [TS]

  think advantage of secret wars was that [TS]

  it was literally the alright we know [TS]

  what you want you want to see everybody [TS]

  fight everybody else will do that again [TS]

  we can do that for you like but then of [TS]

  course secret war to the beyond her who [TS]

  was the embodiment of this other [TS]

  universe came to earth and just wandered [TS]

  around through every single every single [TS]

  comic every comic they had that was [TS]

  percent with exciting adventures like [TS]

  spider-man teaching him how to pee yeah [TS]

  yeah he didn't understand that was body [TS]

  yeah yeah i just read i just read one of [TS]

  the secret wars two crossovers with the [TS]

  x-men there was a very similar sort of [TS]

  thing it's like months of plot line must [TS]

  be put on hold so that we have a little [TS]

  quirky tail with the beyond ER we have [TS]

  to sell the copies but thank God that [TS]

  Marvel doesn't do that these days to [TS]

  know they don't every single crossover [TS]

  is completely organic to the smarter [TS]

  story are gonna tell ya but although i [TS]

  was actually what was I just was I just [TS]

  reading i was just reading something i [TS]

  can't remember what Marvel event was and [TS]

  I was actually i am reading the spider [TS]

  vs event and although there are side [TS]

  stories the bulk of that event is being [TS]

  told inside amazing spider-man and I [TS]

  don't feel the need for me I don't feel [TS]

  the need to read the other titles they [TS]

  feel like supplemental material and then [TS]

  I I I very much feel like if i read [TS]

  these eight inches of amazing spider-man [TS]

  i'm going to get the story [TS]

  whereas a lot of these events is very [TS]

  much like a continued next week in [TS]

  ant-man number 33 feel like I'm not [TS]

  going to read and man number 33 what are [TS]

  you talking about when you start who do [TS]

  I know who buys these books long time I [TS]

  had went well three powerpack get the [TS]

  whole story now [TS]

  feel like house of them comes up a lot [TS]

  on comic book club at this but that was [TS]

  one of the things that really ticked me [TS]

  off when I was following it as they had [TS]

  a million times 220 you have to see how [TS]

  Captain America affair and House of M [TS]

  spoiler not well they had all of these [TS]

  different like one shots or all [TS]

  histories or what have you and I i [TS]

  finally went through and tighten up the [TS]

  amount of money i had spent just just to [TS]

  get something that was merely background [TS]

  to one of the most epic and yet Daffy [TS]

  things that universities ever done [TS]

  Behrman I love house of them i love [TS]

  making fun of it it's a complicated [TS]

  relationship but and after that I [TS]

  thought you know what I'm not ever doing [TS]

  this again where I have to buy all these [TS]

  different issues across all of these [TS]

  different titles it doesn't suck me I [TS]

  didn't become a captain america reader [TS]

  after that just because I i saw one [TS]

  issue of Steve Rogers looking sad in the [TS]

  House of M universe or whatever every [TS]

  comic book fan has that moment where [TS]

  they say I'm not doing this again that [TS]

  was by the way incomparable number 140 [TS]

  we talked about house of them you can [TS]

  you look at one out for me with the [TS]

  Avengers disassembled it was the major [TS]

  event that led into house of them and [TS]

  that was the one that was I think [TS]

  definitively broke me of trying to [TS]

  follow Marvel series events because i [TS]

  remember they ok so I i'm used to [TS]

  everything was written by Bendis wasn't [TS]

  it but so I i'm used to like been to [TS]

  style plotting where there's gonna be a [TS]

  lot of lurching forward and then this [TS]

  basically idling for a while then [TS]

  lurching forward and I know that's [TS]

  that's his style that's the sort of [TS]

  sticking with a stick with its ok I'm [TS]

  what I'm like watching the clock like [TS]

  kinda like when you're watching a movie [TS]

  and you realize that oh gee there's the [TS]

  right that I've got this this movie's [TS]

  been going on for like 93 minutes and a [TS]

  lot is going to have to happen in the [TS]

  next 10 minutes but ok let's see what [TS]

  happens [TS]

  I'm I'm really aware of that as this is [TS]

  going on cg he really only has an issue [TS]

  and a half to close a lot of storylines [TS]

  and I bet this is gonna be incredible [TS]

  and then when I got to the last issue [TS]

  and it's like something or I'm dr. [TS]

  strange you haven't seen before this [TS]

  entire series [TS]

  let me explain exactly what has happened [TS]

  and now I'll just take off with her you [TS]

  won't find out what happened [TS]

  oh really [TS]

  how much money I spend on this to get [TS]

  that and it's it just feels it the it [TS]

  might I really fun everyone when I [TS]

  really figured out about all these my [TS]

  relation to all these mega series from [TS]

  Marvel is that it really is like that [TS]

  scene in a day at the races where [TS]

  Groucho is gonna is buying a horse tip [TS]

  from from from chico but the the tip a [TS]

  dollar for is just like the name of the [TS]

  horse in code without chicken will solve [TS]

  the codebook to get to decode it decodes [TS]

  and it's actually a jockey will [TS]

  celebrate your sky that gives that finds [TS]

  out that rock is another dollar as like [TS]

  you just give me one unit of story that [TS]

  doesn't involve me having to go [TS]

  elsewhere to find out like what the [TS]

  resolution to this is or find out why [TS]

  was Peter Parker upset in this scene and [TS]

  what if they are having a fight in this [TS]

  panel can I mean I'm talking about like [TS]

  an a disagreement that's that defines [TS]

  character might not like about will not [TS]

  come Sokka battle like what I just again [TS]

  12 issues gimme gimme a beginning middle [TS]

  and that's on all side episode 21 of the [TS]

  uncomfortable as well where we talked [TS]

  about special events and said many of [TS]

  the complaint about many he's hesitating [TS]

  matter Jason the pain is still better [TS]

  really this is an opportunity for for [TS]

  comics fans to to get social and [TS]

  interact with their friends in real time [TS]

  though because just as I have the same [TS]

  the deeply held theory that we should [TS]

  have comics comics readers should do [TS]

  what what lots of middle-aged ladies who [TS]

  like wine do and have book clubs you [TS]

  know I'm I seriously think she drink [TS]

  heavily and read comics and talk about [TS]

  them i feel like this is something more [TS]

  comic fans should do because i mentioned [TS]

  comic book clubs a couple people who [TS]

  read comics like that's a great idea and [TS]

  ice there's nothing stopping you from [TS]

  doing this with your friend like a [TS]

  support group you think you're saying [TS]

  maybe 10 or injury [TS]

  it's a drinking Club with a book problem [TS]

  but the other thing again i firmly [TS]

  believe that what you have to do is you [TS]

  have to get together like a group of [TS]

  three or four friends and when there are [TS]

  these mega events you split the burden [TS]

  and what if he was like yeah I will take [TS]

  one for the team and by the floor and [TS]

  another one of you says okay fine [TS]

  three-part daredevil whatever and you [TS]

  all and everybody takes turns buying the [TS]

  issues and then you pull them all [TS]

  together and you read them [TS]

  this is a great opportunity for you to [TS]

  increase your real-world social [TS]

  connection [TS]

  doesn't interact with people and you're [TS]

  not just spending a lot of money than [TS]

  being angry on the internet you can be [TS]

  angry in somebody's house was drinking [TS]

  wine it smell like me the wine makes you [TS]

  less angry what this is one that's it [TS]

  you may not be drinking enough of it [TS]

  no I'm not trust me I've done [TS]

  experiments it took time to take a brief [TS]

  break and i will tell you about our [TS]

  sponsor Squarespace you know building a [TS]

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  visit dreaming with Jeff com Squarespace [TS]

  start here go anywhere so so events ok [TS]

  events are problematic so I let's throw [TS]

  in the event as continuity altar because [TS]

  like I said DC has led the way here DC [TS]

  with all of its various crises and then [TS]

  the flashpoint thing to has used events [TS]

  as ways to actually deal with parallel [TS]

  universes and imaginary whatever [TS]

  zend and continuity which is something [TS]

  that Marvel hasn't done although it [TS]

  sounds to me like this is where they've [TS]

  been leading for several years with [TS]

  jonathan jonathan hickman's run in [TS]

  adventures in New Avengers which I don't [TS]

  know if any of you have read it I've [TS]

  read a lot of it on Marvel unlimited so [TS]

  I'm that means I'm like a month behind [TS]

  but I actually think it's kind of good [TS]

  at it but it's sort of a pre-event it's [TS]

  like I think I think a lot of what we've [TS]

  seen Marvel do in the last couple of [TS]

  years has been with the knowledge of its [TS]

  creative team that they're about to hit [TS]

  a reset button and and Hickman story is [TS]

  the driver and as a science fiction [TS]

  story within Avengers I think it's [TS]

  actually kind of interesting and fun but [TS]

  you do have that ripoff feeling two of [TS]

  the this idea that the reason that some [TS]

  of the storytelling has been happening [TS]

  is because they realize they've got a [TS]

  get-out-of-jail-free card coming in a [TS]

  couple of years and have you seen what [TS]

  they're doing after this they announced [TS]

  a force today [TS]

  oh I have a doctor about that i think [TS]

  and force yeah and we should talk about [TS]

  that i think a force is during this [TS]

  they're announcing a lot of things that [TS]

  are happening during the secret wars era [TS]

  before [TS]

  presumably it gets resolved when they're [TS]

  all unlike battleworld and continuities [TS]

  all confused and they're different [TS]

  worlds from different parts of time and [TS]

  space and in there they've announced it [TS]

  is a force which is an all-woman [TS]

  Avengers team that's being written by [TS]

  willow Wilson who does miss marvel and i [TS]

  forget the name of the other writer but [TS]

  that's it's kinda and dazzlers in it [TS]

  which excites me because i have all [TS]

  issues of the eighties dazzle comments [TS]

  your me big Allyson Blair fan here sorry [TS]

  is not aligned with Cheney found that [TS]

  would just be interested in [TS]

  understanding and defensive line with [TS]

  child of the 80s you know if you make [TS]

  you make him loud enough noise Allison [TS]

  blaring fire lasers out of her hands [TS]

  I'm going to make a wall and she's a [TS]

  rock star so she's usually around loud [TS]

  noise is what I'm saying she used to be [TS]

  the roadie for Lila Cheney and the only [TS]

  reason i bring that up is because i'm [TS]

  rereading my original run of New Mutants [TS]

  and I've just going to the really boring [TS]

  if she were saying Guthrie can't believe [TS]

  he's dating a rock star but the a force [TS]

  that has been feel similar to the the [TS]

  female Thor announcement well there's [TS]

  also don't forget the x-men team up that [TS]

  they've got going [TS]

  onto where they've got that all female [TS]

  x.x men with Betsy Braddock and the [TS]

  vampire g believe hurts me to say that [TS]

  in storm one fascinated by the costumes [TS]

  on the a force image that they put out [TS]

  because it's from as they had kind of [TS]

  implied for secret wars it's from all [TS]

  over continuity yeah she hulk appears to [TS]

  be wearing her fantastic four outfit [TS]

  yeah that's clearly the Jean Grey [TS]

  Phoenix which is right in my commonweal [TS]

  house while room we have also spider [TS]

  went in the background there [TS]

  yeah I do like that they've got a new [TS]

  commander oh so the book from runaways [TS]

  yes that's why I'm excited about is I [TS]

  think they've done a real i think one of [TS]

  the things Marvel has done right in the [TS]

  past decade is the integrated Runaways [TS]

  into the wider marvel universe in a [TS]

  really elegant naturalistic way and it's [TS]

  plausible [TS]

  they have this new character singularity [TS]

  who's like be living embodiment of it of [TS]

  a universe or something like that who's [TS]

  the one who's just a silhouette with [TS]

  stars sounds like Captain universe to me [TS]

  but sounds like century to me you've [TS]

  also got the Monica Rambeau Captain [TS]

  Marvel all the way in the background [TS]

  there or along with carol danvers count [TS]

  and I think nineteen nineties rogue if [TS]

  I'm looking at that hearing is that [TS]

  Natasha Romanoff way in the back there [TS]

  maybe although who it's hard to tell it [TS]

  could also be she's got the pistols and [TS]

  marriage license from an alternate [TS]

  reality where she's a spy for all [TS]

  shipping ends the multiverses are all [TS]

  collapsing as i understand it sits there [TS]

  match them all together and since only [TS]

  one ultimate ultimate haha only one [TS]

  final one can exist or there basically [TS]

  going to mix and match this is it's [TS]

  brilliant [TS]

  I love what they're doing because this [TS]

  is going to be how Marvel manages to get [TS]

  a whole bunch of fan favorite characters [TS]

  into the movies here here's the other [TS]

  way you could tell the stories like this [TS]

  is just let people tell the stories they [TS]

  want to tell ya [TS]

  instead of having to build an event and [TS]

  talk about imaginary universes colliding [TS]

  to get interesting versions of [TS]

  characters get it you could just tell [TS]

  stories with interesting set of [TS]

  characters and not worry about [TS]

  continuity why is it having to tell [TS]

  having to do an event events are fun [TS]

  masonry since we've already talked about [TS]

  how they're financially about fraudulent [TS]

  and people are are irritated by the [TS]

  inclusion by the disruption of perfectly [TS]

  normal plot lines for stuff that makes [TS]

  no sense for three issues [TS]

  is that but again advanced events can be [TS]

  fun I'm actually having a lot of fun [TS]

  reading spider vs because it is fun it [TS]

  is a it is end and I think maybe this is [TS]

  one way the Marvel has learned some [TS]

  lessons is that these events now seem to [TS]

  be more or less driven by a by a single [TS]

  riders so like hickman is driving the [TS]

  secret worst thing that has been driving [TS]

  the adventures thing and uh what is it a [TS]

  is dan slott is driving the the spider [TS]

  vs stuff and that makes it a little more [TS]

  cohesive so I think events can be fun [TS]

  events can also feel like huge amount of [TS]

  work that are put together by [TS]

  calculations about how much money you [TS]

  can make and those are generally a lot [TS]

  less fun and that took and that's okay [TS]

  too but what bothers me about this one [TS]

  is that it you get into you absolutely [TS]

  do get into the the black Nick Fury [TS]

  situation where there is life [TS]

  it's a sign or something whatever move [TS]

  yeah it's like it's like when they [TS]

  decided that it was inconvenient to have [TS]

  Peter Parker married and so I can [TS]

  understand that I gotta say you're [TS]

  publishing company i was just much much [TS]

  rather see like a little graphic [TS]

  representation of a post-it note on page [TS]

  one of the whatever the next book is [TS]

  saying hi guys lets just understand that [TS]

  from now on let's just pretend this [TS]

  marriage never happened is that they [TS]

  have to create those all this apparatus [TS]

  and they have to put the have to put [TS]

  these people like I'm on the view at one [TS]

  late night talk show say you know know [TS]

  this had nothing to do with the fact [TS]

  that we wanted to be able to market our [TS]

  characters through the movies and [TS]

  television a lot more efficiently this [TS]

  really was just an organic decision we [TS]

  made that was completely creatively [TS]

  different wasn't this is its out its it [TS]

  feels better when you feel as though [TS]

  like crisis on Infinite Earths when they [TS]

  really did feel like this is way too [TS]

  complicated that we've got Superman on [TS]

  trunk Superman of 18 different earths we [TS]

  have to explain which one came from [TS]

  which one we feel as though as as [TS]

  editors and as writers would like to [TS]

  have a more cohesive universe that's [TS]

  what we did with this one it feels like [TS]

  we really really really really really [TS]

  want to have the young Fantastic Four [TS]

  because that's more marketable we really [TS]

  really really really want to have a half [TS]

  miles morales as the new spider-man and [TS]

  we really really really wanted to be [TS]

  able to do X [TS]

  Ben comics without ever having to say [TS]

  the word x-men because then we can [TS]

  promote our movies better [TS]

  well really i think it's just a lot of [TS]

  effort to bring Wolverine back to life [TS]

  because there's no way they're coming [TS]

  out of this with the dead Wolverine I [TS]

  heard somebody who said this is all this [TS]

  is gonna be like a hundred comic books [TS]

  in order to import Miles Morales into [TS]

  the mainstream [TS]

  normal university and it's like oh well [TS]

  all that's changed is that miles is here [TS]

  and maybe a couple other little changes [TS]

  and I guess we're done [TS]

  meanwhile I have to say today the [TS]

  editor-in-chief of of DC Comics and [TS]

  their announcement said in this new era [TS]

  of storytelling ok it's you read the [TS]

  press release i guess this new era story [TS]

  will trump continuity as we continue to [TS]

  empower creators to tell the best [TS]

  stories in the industry i found this [TS]

  kind of a fascinating statement [TS]

  especially bc which all of those stories [TS]

  have been about continuity i would not [TS]

  love it [TS]

  story will trump continuity what what is [TS]

  happening i feel that way more [TS]

  interesting than any marbles as [TS]

  announced by more excited DC this area [TS]

  and Marvel because because again not to [TS]

  repeat what I'm saying with Marvel I [TS]

  feel like now get to buy a hundred [TS]

  dollars for the comics to figure out a [TS]

  new status quo that's been done just so [TS]

  that the editors can the Lord is nikka [TS]

  bibbidi-bobbidi-boo themselves into a [TS]

  much more marketable universe that what [TS]

  i got from the DC announcement was that [TS]

  we're gonna have we're going to a [TS]

  bat-mite book we're going to do a Black [TS]

  Canary book and we're gonna have we're [TS]

  gonna have individual books you're gonna [TS]

  just want to see you don't even need to [TS]

  care about whatever is happening [TS]

  elsewhere in DC this is a good place to [TS]

  jump on that sort i might be wrong but [TS]

  that's the impression that i got from DC [TS]

  so that thing that keeps banging around [TS]

  my head because we're talking about [TS]

  continuity is how many of you guys are [TS]

  familiar with our three alleged Miriam [TS]

  you are [TS]

  yeah and 17 Camelot I hitting Enter [TS]

  spamalot so you guys so you know our [TS]

  Arthur's been around for forever right [TS]

  there is law governs brute there's the [TS]

  murder there's the murder the lip [TS]

  Murray's lay there's more to Arthur but [TS]

  the point is is they're all these [TS]

  different interpretations of our that go [TS]

  on and there's endless iterations for [TS]

  example in the earliest historic [TS]

  Arthurian legends its there's no [TS]

  Lancelot it's that going to be runs off [TS]

  with Mordred and then one last like it's [TS]

  introduced in the more to our through he [TS]

  all but you know the dynamics the story [TS]

  change the point is is [TS]

  the elements are all there and it's just [TS]

  good storytelling every time right up [TS]

  through th once the once and future king [TS]

  and then when the definitive 21st [TS]

  century Arthur comes out it will be done [TS]

  differently again and I was thinking [TS]

  about this in context with comics and I [TS]

  thought I think the reason why I keep [TS]

  coming back is because continuity [TS]

  matters less than the elements of the [TS]

  story and as long as you're telling me a [TS]

  good black canary story or you're [TS]

  telling me a good Batman story or a good [TS]

  green arrow story or as long as you're [TS]

  telling me you're really great run away [TS]

  story i'm not really gonna be like oh I [TS]

  happen to get the joke on panel 18 [TS]

  because I to bought all a dishes of the [TS]

  watcher crossover series last year [TS]

  that's not the important thing about [TS]

  continuity though cut continuity is cool [TS]

  and helps the storytelling because it's [TS]

  nice to have a character with a history [TS]

  that if i read offend test [TS]

  I don't actually fantastic for right now [TS]

  but if I did if it didn't the fact that [TS]

  the characters have this but 50-year [TS]

  history of things that have happened to [TS]

  them not only informed the way they act [TS]

  but informs my knowledge of them it's [TS]

  not just let's tell the story as though [TS]

  these characters were born out of Zeus's [TS]

  forehead today [TS]

  yeah and against I mean this is the line [TS]

  I mean this is the line they all walk [TS]

  Marvel used to not worry about this [TS]

  continuity quite so much and it's events [TS]

  weren't about it in DC's were and now [TS]

  with DC making the statement it seems [TS]

  like they're trying to go go the other [TS]

  direction and empower their creators [TS]

  which i think is really smart from a [TS]

  business standpoint because i think that [TS]

  you know getting really good writers and [TS]

  artists especially the writers to work [TS]

  on Marvel and DC characters you want to [TS]

  give them reasons to tell interesting [TS]

  stories and get the mix excited about it [TS]

  and and and while while Marvel with the [TS]

  success of their movies has become more [TS]

  enslaved I think into this idea of [TS]

  having everything connect together and [TS]

  and so I think that's to the detriment [TS]

  of the storytelling to be honest well [TS]

  it's agree it's I think it's a continuum [TS]

  because I agree with Monty there is [TS]

  richness in its the richness of a TV [TS]

  series it's it's the richness of being [TS]

  able to say remember what happened [TS]

  you've been with these people for 10 [TS]

  years remember what happened ten years [TS]

  no there is there is there's power in [TS]

  that there's some short hand in that I [TS]

  can appreciate that but you end up with [TS]

  so much of that you're precluded [TS]

  yourself from telling other stories and [TS]

  and if you tie it into every other comic [TS]

  that you published over the last 20 [TS]

  years you are you have made it [TS]

  impossible to do anything because [TS]

  continuities in the way so I mean that [TS]

  was one of the reasons why i was a fan [TS]

  of The Ultimate Universe is it stripped [TS]

  the characters back to their core [TS]

  without having to actually conform to [TS]

  any history [TS]

  ironically enough of course over 15 [TS]

  years you're going to get history that [TS]

  happened to the Ultimate Universe too so [TS]

  I I see both sides here it's like I [TS]

  understand the value of continuity [TS]

  within reason but I also you know I also [TS]

  roll my eyes at the fact that you know [TS]

  this eternal present that they talk [TS]

  about where you know everybody has [TS]

  always been the age they are today in [TS]

  the present day but you know but and [TS]

  continuity where Spiderman was a team [TS]

  was a you know teenager or college [TS]

  student in the mid-seventies is still [TS]

  real but how about sliding timescale [TS]

  yeah everything happened to the last 20 [TS]

  years or so I don't think people are [TS]

  demanding that but i think i think the [TS]

  Ultimate Universe is really a excellent [TS]

  example of the sort of continuity that's [TS]

  actually valuable where of ultimate [TS]

  spider-man is probably the only book of [TS]

  that entire experiment that had any [TS]

  value in the long run I great and I look [TS]

  at the Fantastic Four where they took [TS]

  the core concept where more people with [TS]

  the for people with the a web of [TS]

  proceeding relationships suffer an [TS]

  accident together and there they they go [TS]

  through the the effects of did dealing [TS]

  with what they are after this accident [TS]

  if you back that up with all of the not [TS]

  the details of the stories have been [TS]

  happening for 50 years but the sum total [TS]

  of what these characters are after 50 [TS]

  characters 50 years you have something [TS]

  really really valuable if you then [TS]

  decide well how about we suddenly decide [TS]

  that Reed Richards goes nuts and now [TS]

  he's a member megalomaniacal super super [TS]

  villains you're into that temporarily oh [TS]

  that was that's that little bit but it [TS]

  wasn't fantastic four it's like it's [TS]

  like you can't take the label off a can [TS]

  of coke and put it on whatever you want [TS]

  and call it coke you may as well create [TS]

  something brand-new [TS]

  so this is actually a debate that we [TS]

  have over on the flash flash cast almost [TS]

  weekly and cross-promotion it is to get [TS]

  the TV podcast where Lisa and Tony and [TS]

  Emily was suppose that we talk we break [TS]

  down without the flash see this is like [TS]

  the continuity it's uncomfortable [TS]

  continuity hear ya the debate that we [TS]

  have on the flash flash cast every week [TS]

  because in dollars really good about [TS]

  picking up stuff from the comics he's [TS]

  very flash fluent and the debate we have [TS]

  is do you really want to know that much [TS]

  about continuity and what these [TS]

  characters have done or do you want to [TS]

  go in and just see where the story takes [TS]

  you and then once it's done appreciate [TS]

  how they pulled in continuity or not [TS]

  in other words is it better to go and [TS]

  flying blind or is it better to go in [TS]

  with the context and the richness that [TS]

  you guys are talking about the trick [TS]

  with that what the what the WB shows are [TS]

  doing is they are to using their mining [TS]

  rich source material to tell whatever [TS]

  story they want however they want them [TS]

  and that's very much like the ultimate [TS]

  spider-man at least or lawyers genius [TS]

  about this because they literally lifted [TS]

  from both from the year one miniseries [TS]

  that was I think just five or six issues [TS]

  and then my girls runs and they they've [TS]

  done it so well that even you know and [TS]

  I've read them i I've read all these [TS]

  drones and even when i'm watching this [TS]

  series I almost can't tell when they've [TS]

  lifted something until after it's [TS]

  sending them like oh yeah and to me that [TS]

  that is really great storytelling [TS]

  because it gets back to the elements it [TS]

  still makes me feel like continuities [TS]

  almost a reward for paying attention as [TS]

  opposed to this relationship you build [TS]

  up with the character for knowing them [TS]

  for so many years but i can see the [TS]

  point that you guys have regarding how [TS]

  having however many years worth of [TS]

  knowledge of this character may enhance [TS]

  or add weight to some of the [TS]

  developments that happened in the story [TS]

  maybe continuity is the wrong word maybe [TS]

  maybe a better would be equity when I [TS]

  really feel as though certain books they [TS]

  build up equity as they go along like [TS]

  you want to create stockholm story one [TS]

  way to do it is the way that the BBC did [TS]

  Sherlock recently with Benedict [TS]

  Cumberbatch where you do something very [TS]

  very conservative very recognizable as [TS]

  sherlock holmes and that all you did was [TS]

  let's set him in modern-day London and [TS]

  let's make Watson a veteran of even more [TS]

  of a [TS]

  our modern afghan war than older one [TS]

  another way of doing it is well what if [TS]

  we make him an American doctor in New [TS]

  Jersey and he's and the solves mysteries [TS]

  that are medical in nature that's also [TS]

  sherlock holmes and your building upon [TS]

  the equity of the character however once [TS]

  you start to say well what if he's a C's [TS]

  actually a serial killer and uses [TS]

  expertise in serial killing to make him [TS]

  a better better detective you've created [TS]

  something wonderful but it's not [TS]

  Sherlock Holmes and that's that when we [TS]

  do reboots like this and when you decide [TS]

  what if we suddenly make again Reed [TS]

  Richards a total jerk and is arrogant [TS]

  and he just wants doesn't care will [TS]

  probably already every freakin be an [TS]

  arrogant jerk but he's not a monster [TS]

  that's when that's when you're saying [TS]

  that that's what I'm saying it may as [TS]

  well not even call it the the your [TS]

  misrepresented the product i think let [TS]

  me tell you about our next sponsor its [TS]

  mail route I've told you about them [TS]

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  imagine no more friend this is the world [TS]

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  love getting my little sample of what [TS]

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  Watson homes which is a a and elevate [TS]

  the code word is it's an urban Sherlock [TS]

  Holmes but what it is is is holmes and [TS]

  watson are black in new york city urban [TS]

  healers and yeah I know example this is [TS]

  how they market it right but it's [TS]

  actually it's actually a really cool [TS]

  comic really cool comic where that we're [TS]

  Watson is the main character and they [TS]

  are they are in Harlem solving crimes [TS]

  and and Watson is a an Air Force veteran [TS]

  whose return to the inner city and it's [TS]

  actually kind of great but there and [TS]

  you're right the the Sherlock Holmes is [TS]

  a serial killer and write it is holmes [TS]

  and watson with a little spin on you [TS]

  I think equity is a really nice when I [TS]

  love ultimate spider-man because it is [TS]

  retailing the the spider-man story and [TS]

  it's got it is a spider-man story but it [TS]

  is not burdened it with having to set [TS]

  take it take for granted all of these [TS]

  all of these a basic assumptions of [TS]

  where we are in continuity time but it [TS]

  just goes back to the beginning and says [TS]

  look let's just tell the story again and [TS]

  let's start fresh and let's do the Clone [TS]

  Saga right this time and yeah we at [TS]

  which they kind of didn't but it was [TS]

  better but rather something that's [TS]

  always the heartbreak when somebody [TS]

  takes one of your favorite favorite [TS]

  characters or favorite dynamics and [TS]

  turns it on its head because I can [TS]

  remember how betrayed I felt when Gail [TS]

  Simone left birds of prey and then the [TS]

  next one we took over i cant members [TS]

  name but Simone had worked very hard for [TS]

  this course of the run to build up these [TS]

  plausible respectful holy believable [TS]

  relationships among all of the different [TS]

  like the main birds roster than all the [TS]

  auxiliary people and the other people [TS]

  who are in other lives and like that was [TS]

  squandered within two issues and it was [TS]

  back to [TS]

  oh these chicks they fight crime and [TS]

  what I'm sure loves the green arrow and [TS]

  it was just a heart it was infuriating [TS]

  when I stopped buying those little [TS]

  worried she's an ass kicker such a [TS]

  powerful for no she's not oh yeah [TS]

  powerful female character because like [TS]

  she can wear a bustier and fishnets and [TS]

  hurt you and it's just and so that's [TS]

  that's the flipside to I guess the [TS]

  equity or the the personal investment [TS]

  that the personal relationship to begin [TS]

  to build up is I think sometimes it's [TS]

  easy to forget what a strong role the [TS]

  writer has in that too and when the [TS]

  writer leaves unless another writer with [TS]

  similar sensibilities or or a writer who [TS]

  says I understand these court [TS]

  sensibilities are going to apply them to [TS]

  the character [TS]

  unless that's their you you do run the [TS]

  risk of torpedoing years of work frankly [TS]

  or or turning off a segment of your [TS]

  audience i just read the secret origin [TS]

  of Wonder Woman which is mostly about [TS]

  William Moulton Marston the Wonder Woman [TS]

  didn't we talk about that you know we [TS]

  mentioned inviting briefly but yeah then [TS]

  there's a moment in that exactly [TS]

  illustrates what you're talking about [TS]

  where one woman has become a huge [TS]

  property for DC she's third to Superman [TS]

  and Batman so they decided to add her to [TS]

  the justice society group comic book but [TS]

  now she's going to be written by Gardner [TS]

  foxes have William Moulton Marston and [TS]

  in the first issue she gets added to the [TS]

  justice society as the secretary and [TS]

  then every issue after that she says [TS]

  sure when I could go with you boys have [TS]

  to stay here and then there's one issue [TS]

  where she does get to do something get [TS]

  all the male superheroes have been [TS]

  kidnapped or something [TS]

  saudi and all the girlfriends have to go [TS]

  rescue them [TS]

  this reminds me of this is the fam in [TS]

  both enjoying it infuriated by with the [TS]

  eight that the current Peggy Carter a [TS]

  mini-series on TV is watching how Peggy [TS]

  is reduced taking lunch orders and and I [TS]

  realize that's part of the whole point [TS]

  to the series is to shit is to show you [TS]

  is a commentary on that yes i realize [TS]

  the whole point of the series is a [TS]

  commentary that doesn't mean I have to [TS]

  watch and go oh it's a commentary funny [TS]

  things are terrible like you know it's a [TS]

  very visceral loving like oh god people [TS]

  thought that was okay [TS]

  butBut so I was hiding yourself [TS]

  she's going to found shield eventually [TS]

  and other these jerks is yeah that guy [TS]

  from one tree hill can just go right [TS]

  back there as far as I'm concerned yes [TS]

  so what I mean I i would imagine that [TS]

  these are conversations actually was a [TS]

  funny thing i read this is totally not [TS]

  related but I'm gonna mention it where I [TS]

  saw a video of an interview with JJ [TS]

  Abrams at like I'm a red carpet [TS]

  somewhere and they were asking about the [TS]

  the lights or lightsaber with the from [TS]

  the trailer that's got the little cards [TS]

  coming out of it and his comment was [TS]

  somebody was like well you know the fans [TS]

  talk about this a lot and he just [TS]

  laughed he said do you do not think that [TS]

  we had huge arguments about this on the [TS]

  inside and I I thought that was really [TS]

  funny and I want to bring that up in the [TS]

  comic book context and ask you I'm sure [TS]

  they had these conversations at all [TS]

  levels of Marvel and DC especially but i [TS]

  wanted to ask you three [TS]

  what is the how do you solve the problem [TS]

  of wanting the richness of characters [TS]

  that were familiar with while not [TS]

  totally stifling storytelling by tying [TS]

  everything together with continuity [TS]

  that's basically walling off whole [TS]

  sections of story possibilities because [TS]

  somebody already told a story like that [TS]

  25 years ago that said it was a and you [TS]

  wanted to bebe and it's too bad how do [TS]

  you how do you take the richness and yet [TS]

  still have things that are good stories [TS]

  that people want to read [TS]

  I think that selective amnesia really is [TS]

  the secret to making all this work [TS]

  it'sit's such a bit such a perfect [TS]

  filter too because we can we write I [TS]

  don't want to awaken a memory that [TS]

  everybody I'm sure has been burying but [TS]

  there was a time when I'm watching my [TS]

  sisters give us riding stars writing [TS]

  spider-man and he said well tell you [TS]

  what he turns into a giant spider and [TS]

  then he dies and then a new Peter Parker [TS]

  like car like that isn't a good soon [TS]

  it's like they're I just I just love [TS]

  that there's no need to recon that [TS]

  there's no way to explain like how all [TS]

  that was actually a clone or that was [TS]

  just a virtual reality we all just ate [TS]

  editors includes let's just all agree [TS]

  that we just never speak of that again [TS]

  whereas other things that might have [TS]

  happened around the same time they are [TS]

  so potent and so good like when dr. [TS]

  octopus inhabit his body for for a good [TS]

  year to that we're going we're going to [TS]

  accept that as something that's true i [TS]

  think that really you don't think that [TS]

  this secret is just repeat yourself it's [TS]

  just a comment i should really just [TS]

  relax and as I don't think you're [TS]

  getting this bakery boots are these big [TS]

  explanations i say just keep the good [TS]

  stuff like it he said there was [TS]

  something cool remember that to star [TS]

  trek as an example [TS]

  apparently in the Star Trek animated [TS]

  series which is sort of cannon there's [TS]

  an episode that end with a 200 foot tall [TS]

  vegetable clone of Spock just left out [TS]

  on a planet somewhere so that's there [TS]

  for all the future movies and series [TS]

  know who cares that was done we forgot [TS]

  about it after you know I Peter and Mary [TS]

  Jane had a baby that was taken away and [TS]

  they thought that the that the baby died [TS]

  and was taken away by Norman Osborn to [TS]

  Europe where would be it [TS]

  educated and evil European schools or [TS]

  something like that and it literally [TS]

  which actually yes [TS]

  that baby is actually the premise of the [TS]

  spider girl comic where she didn't get [TS]

  taken away but I i remember reading [TS]

  those comics and looking up on reading [TS]

  wikipedia several years later like [TS]

  whatever what they ever do with that [TS]

  story and you know what the answer is [TS]

  what we don't speak of it like it's just [TS]

  now that didn't do whatever we didn't [TS]

  happen [TS]

  let's not worry about it it's like [TS]

  Richie's brother on happy days [TS]

  yeah just like continuity that and i [TS]

  like that Superman has whatever 80 years [TS]

  of history if they didn't have those [TS]

  reboots yeah it doesn't matter if he had [TS]

  super puzzle solving ability for two [TS]

  issues in the nineteen fifties you can [TS]

  ignore that nobody really mind except [TS]

  for the puzzle makers of america and [TS]

  they're like why do Superman offices I [TS]

  this pad panel 2 on page 8 of action [TS]

  comics number 438 Clark Kent scratches [TS]

  his head and says I've never been good [TS]

  at puzzles but I point you know that [TS]

  having that I like big I like DC's [TS]

  occasional big crisis or zero hour [TS]

  shake it all up and see what happens i [TS]

  don't see that as a negative i think [TS]

  those are fun diversion as [TS]

  once i'm not paying for the week by week [TS]

  because this again comes down I I'm [TS]

  gonna come back to the Arthurian thing [TS]

  because i think one of the reasons the [TS]

  Arthurian legend has managed to maintain [TS]

  across British literary history for [TS]

  hundreds of years is because it's got [TS]

  the fundamentals of of a story in there [TS]

  Arthur is always somebody who is the [TS]

  literal embodiment of the land where is [TS]

  somebody who is the embodiment of [TS]

  authority and treachery Morgan is always [TS]

  the embodiment of weakness later on you [TS]

  have gallon galant but the point is all [TS]

  these elements are the same and they can [TS]

  be creatively mixed and matched and spun [TS]

  off into side stories and you know [TS]

  there's a free which anthology it was [TS]

  that had all the different stories of [TS]

  all the different knights of the round [TS]

  table and I think when comics is firing [TS]

  on all cylinders [TS]

  it's basically doing that were the [TS]

  writers all have an idea in their head [TS]

  that this is this is this character's [TS]

  personality profile this is what they do [TS]

  in any given situation let's throw them [TS]

  into a situation where they adopt a [TS]

  dragon or less stringent situation where [TS]

  they become a Valkyrie or let's turn [TS]

  them into a situation where they become [TS]

  a vampire then adopt a baby growing [TS]

  frustration where he's not a vampire but [TS]

  instead a weirdo who's really Richard [TS]

  lives in Seattle example God if you pick [TS]

  well that's not good storytelling I mean [TS]

  even if my some even if it was you [TS]

  probably could make it work if it was [TS]

  like if it were gifted writer gifted [TS]

  storyteller but you know that the point [TS]

  is is that the good stuff in the story [TS]

  is almost always immutable and it can be [TS]

  recognized from iteration to iteration [TS]

  or feeling that the second approach i [TS]

  would suggest is the John Cleese [TS]

  approach where you had basically the [TS]

  same cast make both fish called wanda [TS]

  and fierce creatures fierce creature [TS]

  isn't and a movie [TS]

  yeah movie that is so good you don't [TS]

  remember it's not the movie about leave [TS]

  their parts of that movie that I will [TS]

  defend to the death parts look but I'll [TS]

  I've always liked the idea of not one of [TS]

  the things I love about sketch comedy is [TS]

  how performers can manage to be both [TS]

  simultaneously versatile and incredibly [TS]

  reliable where when the minivan come on [TS]

  screen part of your subconscious that [TS]

  subconsciously goes oh and now we're [TS]

  going to see this element enter the [TS]

  story or open now [TS]

  we're gonna see this element enter the [TS]

  situation the problem is you can't [TS]

  really decide what are the essential [TS]

  elements of characters before they've [TS]

  been around for hundreds of years we [TS]

  can't well like Wonder Woman is it [TS]

  essential that she fought Nazis i think [TS]

  yes [TS]

  mmm the writers think know is it okay [TS]

  that she stops being from Paradise [TS]

  Island and that was from the mascara in [TS]

  this area time I less silly name it's [TS]

  pronounced Paradise Island I don't quite [TS]

  agree with that just because I'm but and [TS]

  here here here i'm going to contradict [TS]

  my argument immediately after i make it [TS]

  when i was reading storm watch and being [TS]

  professional Lisa yeah I was big bolts [TS]

  phone rings from watching the authority [TS]

  they were did the writers were a bit [TS]

  more analysis special is basically [TS]

  inventing a whole new ensemble of [TS]

  superheroes and he does a really good [TS]

  job of characterizing them in just a few [TS]

  issues and there isn't a whole lot of [TS]

  backstory either but that doesn't make [TS]

  the stories any less compelling or less [TS]

  rewarding to read at the same time I [TS]

  could also argue that the reason that [TS]

  those books were so successful is [TS]

  because he was subconsciously drawing [TS]

  upon or perhaps deliberately drawing [TS]

  upon archetypes that had been [TS]

  established by you know other writers [TS]

  and other titles for 50 60 70 years but [TS]

  i think you can you know Runaways I [TS]

  think works out really well as a story [TS]

  yeah but that's new that's new [TS]

  characters right now because nuclear [TS]

  yeah that and that and that's exactly [TS]

  what I i would like to see DC and Marvel [TS]

  do i mean i'd like to see them to a lot [TS]

  of guys like new characters i think they [TS]

  do you know well I mean it's only once [TS]

  one solution is that the rolling amnesia [TS]

  like I said but another one is just [TS]

  simply say just bite the bullet and say [TS]

  that fantastic the reed richards and Sir [TS]

  Richard's are now in their sixties and [TS]

  all of the and Peter Parker is now in [TS]

  his fifties and you have to let you now [TS]

  have the the senior class but they are [TS]

  doing things that they wouldn't be doing [TS]

  with when they were like 16 17 18 year [TS]

  olds but that's that's great because you [TS]

  have been cultivating new generations of [TS]

  characters to sort of take their places [TS]

  so it's it's good to have it there's a [TS]

  game at the Fantastic Four mean there's [TS]

  a problem now with Johnny Storm because [TS]

  he's just locked into he's got to be 21 [TS]

  years old he's got to be completely [TS]

  irresponsible [TS]

  turn again where exactly where is you [TS]

  have these other characters like even of [TS]

  that can i connect my whole bunch of [TS]

  like minor characters that have because [TS]

  they they're not licensed they're not [TS]

  hot licensed characters you can have [TS]

  them be [TS]

  you can track them as in the [TS]

  mid-seventies she was like part of the [TS]

  miss marvel used to be part of like the [TS]

  hey let's have some some women [TS]

  superheroes now we can basically develop [TS]

  them so that little by little they're [TS]

  proud of the senior class now they're [TS]

  not these characters that don't know [TS]

  what they're doing and they're doing the [TS]

  best they can [TS]

  no she hulk is now leaders is not a [TS]

  leader of a group and it has areas [TS]

  possibility not because she's a new [TS]

  character thats been written as this [TS]

  formidable lawyer but because you can [TS]

  actually acknowledge that while she's [TS]

  been at this hero game for about 10-15 [TS]

  years now she is a graduate of the [TS]

  been-there-done-that class and now you [TS]

  with these are things you can only do if [TS]

  you allow the characters to at least [TS]

  gain experience points i think that's [TS]

  something that you kind of lose when you [TS]

  basically make sure that they're just on [TS]

  that that standing desk and that they [TS]

  can move a lot but they can never really [TS]

  move forward [TS]

  that's when the saddest things i've ever [TS]

  heard a standing desk for you can move a [TS]

  lot never move forward a treadmill desk [TS]

  is the worst one because that when you [TS]

  literally walk 10 miles and never leave [TS]

  your desk [TS]

  I'm I'm exhausted I'm exhausted I'm [TS]

  sticky by still blade on my deadlines I [TS]

  don't know how that happened [TS]

  let me tell you about another sponsor [TS]

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  for sponsoring the uncomfortable [TS]

  I don't know I'm this is a really [TS]

  interesting conversation because in the [TS]

  end I it comes back to telling good [TS]

  stories and i know i I've had [TS]

  conversations I think with all of you [TS]

  about that's the past it one of the [TS]

  frustrating things about the comic book [TS]

  the comics medium in general and and [TS]

  there are graphic novels and there are [TS]

  independent comics that you to tell [TS]

  fixed stories but one of the the appeals [TS]

  of the broad you know the Marvel and DC [TS]

  intellectual property kind of stories [TS]

  and characters is they are the ones that [TS]

  we grew up with [TS]

  they're the ones that are a whole new [TS]

  generation is growing up with they are [TS]

  that they are like mythological figures [TS]

  like Lisa said they're like Arthurian [TS]

  legends and things like that one of the [TS]

  challenges with this medium is finding [TS]

  good stories when we talk about doing [TS]

  comic book club episodes of the [TS]

  uncomfortable [TS]

  what you don't want to do is say well [TS]

  you need 40 years of history and then [TS]

  read these you know 20 tie and comics [TS]

  and there's a story in there [TS]

  what you want to do is be able to throw [TS]

  a trade or two at somebody and say [TS]

  here's a it's like reading a novel read [TS]

  these and we'll talk about it and that [TS]

  is that is the challenge of the business [TS]

  of comic-book continuity i think is that [TS]

  it fights against that and although the [TS]

  continuity is rich i also miss not [TS]

  having the ability to say like I have [TS]

  the i mentioned this before on the show [TS]

  I have the hardcover of redbox planet [TS]

  hulk and I'm not a Hulk [TS]

  and at all actually but that's a great [TS]

  story and it's self-contained and you [TS]

  don't really need to know anything more [TS]

  about other than like background [TS]

  radiation of which would be gamma [TS]

  radiation of the Hulk story to get this [TS]

  story and and yeah it's on a different [TS]

  planet and it doesn't have most of his [TS]

  his regular cast on it but it's a nice [TS]

  story to have it and I think that's the [TS]

  downside of the continuity stuff is that [TS]

  oftentimes you don't have the ability to [TS]

  point of the story and say that's a [TS]

  story instead it's like a soap opera [TS]

  with a bunch of different parts and it's [TS]

  much harder soap operas is a valid [TS]

  storytelling approach to I guess I'm [TS]

  saying I'm a little disappointed that [TS]

  there's so much soap opera and not [TS]

  enough sort of novels in the comics area [TS]

  in the Marvel and DC Comics areas but [TS]

  most of these big ridiculous crossover [TS]

  things you can just read the trade like [TS]

  you can read it crisis on infinite [TS]

  earths and just the trade go alright I [TS]

  pretty much got that I may not have [TS]

  radii don't agree i think a lot of those [TS]

  are our events that really require you [TS]

  to know about everything that's around [TS]

  them because it's 80 different [TS]

  characters and I might know who you know [TS]

  spider-man is or I might know who [TS]

  Superman is but I I you know when you're [TS]

  putting pouring everybody in from the [TS]

  universe then it's like I don't even [TS]

  know who these people at that well [TS]

  particularly with crisis on Infinite [TS]

  Earths there's so many people they don't [TS]

  matter [TS]

  all you have to do all you have to know [TS]

  is on this page for universes died [TS]

  you may not recognize all 20 people in [TS]

  each panel because the artist is a [TS]

  show-off [TS]

  okay good yeah yeah this is already [TS]

  destroyed universes this when you see a [TS]

  Superman and Superman with gray hair [TS]

  glaring at each other [TS]

  you get the idea like I I guess I mean I [TS]

  one of the I would contract [TS]

  contrast that with the what jonathan [TS]

  hickman's been doing in Avengers and New [TS]

  Avengers which is about universe is [TS]

  annihilating themselves or at least [TS]

  Earth's in parallel universes [TS]

  annihilating one another and this is a [TS]

  difference between comics from the [TS]

  eighties and comics of today there [TS]

  there's a lot more angst about you know [TS]

  it's them or us and are we right do we [TS]

  have the responsibility and arguing and [TS]

  and maybe we'll go to that Earth's we [TS]

  can get some fine [TS]

  some cool people and bring them back to [TS]

  our earth and there's there's more of [TS]

  that stuff in there in the end yeah it [TS]

  is sort of like look you don't need to [TS]

  know who those people are in fact you've [TS]

  never seen them before [TS]

  suffice it to say that they're cool and [TS]

  now their universe is blown up [TS]

  they did a story like that in storm [TS]

  watch where where it was basically 11 [TS]

  group of people got to check out and see [TS]

  what was happening on an alternate [TS]

  planet and all they could base all they [TS]

  could basically do where it was like [TS]

  they're watching a really bad TV show [TS]

  and a lot of the a lot of the issue [TS]

  because i think it was just a one or two [TS]

  you think a lot of him that was was are [TS]

  our heroes basically biting their nails [TS]

  all this is not going to work with my [TS]

  gosh what can we do with the answer was [TS]

  no we can't do a thing we can just we [TS]

  can just accept the fact that sometimes [TS]

  we can't even save our own universe and [TS]

  we certainly can't save anyone elses and [TS]

  i like that i like the idea that there [TS]

  was that that there is amplified sense [TS]

  of helplessness [TS]

  well I have a theory something I really [TS]

  want marvel to do because i think [TS]

  there's core problem is not continuity [TS]

  and it's not too many crossovers their [TS]

  core problem is that they had too many [TS]

  people in New York City and they've [TS]

  always had this problem with that's [TS]

  where people characters characters [TS]

  that's where spider-man lives that's [TS]

  where dr. strange lives that's where the [TS]

  Avengers live and that's where the [TS]

  Fantastic Four live like all of their [TS]

  and the x-men are just outside New York [TS]

  City so because they were creating [TS]

  characters that lived in the real world [TS]

  and that's where Stan Lee and Jack Kirby [TS]

  lived [TS]

  everybody's in new york city and i think [TS]

  what they really need to do is spread [TS]

  people out a bit so tying that into the [TS]

  way movie rights or spear around I think [TS]

  we're gonna come out of secret wars with [TS]

  three or four separate universes [TS]

  universe one will have spider-man and [TS]

  the x-men in it and we'll call that [TS]

  universe sony universe to will call [TS]

  universe MCU and we'll have everybody [TS]

  that's in the Marvel Cinematic Universe [TS]

  and then the other universe will be [TS]

  wherever the other stuff is fox fox yes [TS]

  yeah that's the mutant universe doesn't [TS]

  ask for [TS]

  yeah because it would be pretty [TS]

  convenient for the mutants just to live [TS]

  somewhere else [TS]

  because there's way too many of them and [TS]

  also if they spread out so they're [TS]

  separated by who owns the movie rights [TS]

  I think that'll let Marvel do really [TS]

  cruel things to sony and start saying [TS]

  because they've already threatened to [TS]

  stop having a fantastic for comic book [TS]

  that's happening [TS]

  yeah so that's my theory Marvel ends up [TS]

  in several different universes [TS]

  conveniently separate segregated by [TS]

  movie right that's dad's diabolical [TS]

  Monty yeah [TS]

  and yet uncannily lucrative of you i [TS]

  just want them to work in the line I [TS]

  don't want to cure cancer from to turn [TS]

  people into darkness [TS]

  sure yeah I just yeah once that way [TS]

  Kalin is given the ability to write a TV [TS]

  or movie for Marvel just what happened [TS]

  there really opening up the floodgates [TS]

  on allowing comic books to get goofy [TS]

  again [TS]

  yeah which like rate the idea of there [TS]

  being a bat-mite comic or section eight [TS]

  which is going to have the dog welder [TS]

  whose powers that he could well dogs to [TS]

  think that's great that's wonderful i'm [TS]

  so excited about I believe there's one [TS]

  of those zones in the battle world and [TS]

  see your Wars is going to be Howard the [TS]

  Duck related and in spider vs very [TS]

  serious Marvel event one of the probably [TS]

  top 10 spiders in that event is Bob your [TS]

  porker these spectacular fighter ham so [TS]

  there is silliness invented silly that I [TS]

  I respect I respect jonathan hickman I [TS]

  know that these e wouldn't be so popular [TS]

  if he didn't have a peach audience but i [TS]

  think the problem is every hickman book [TS]

  I've read is that he's forgotten that [TS]

  comic books are supposed to have some [TS]

  element of fun [TS]

  oh yeah I'm your son from an alternate [TS]

  reality future in which everything is [TS]

  dead and you're responsible for your [TS]

  being chased by ml for God's sakes [TS]

  flying bathtub flying to a universe in [TS]

  which everyone looks like you know [TS]

  asparagus and you have to solve their [TS]

  problem to have them over for dinner [TS]

  that's what I that's right one story [TS]

  like that please give me a breather [TS]

  well the good news is there are usually [TS]

  good stories to be found and said that [TS]

  have nothing to do with events and then [TS]

  there are also events so there's [TS]

  something for everyone and nothing for [TS]

  someone i think is how that works [TS]

  uh but it's aight i'll tell you one last [TS]

  thing before we go as somebody who like [TS]

  the Ultimate Universe and especially [TS]

  ultimate spider-man who really enjoys [TS]

  the Miles Morales thing that's my only [TS]

  dog in this whole hunt is that I am [TS]

  hoping that in the end that character [TS]

  sticks around in some form that isn't [TS]

  too distorted from who he is because [TS]

  it's a lot of fun having a you know a [TS]

  sixteen-year-old kid being spider-man [TS]

  and having to learn the ropes and [TS]

  hopefully he will not be sunset by [TS]

  Marvel because they're good stories to [TS]

  be told with him and I was quite [TS]

  skeptical when they introduced him and [TS]

  he's actually turned out to be great but [TS]

  you know be a shame if you again [TS]

  corporate policy prevented future [TS]

  stories to be told with that character [TS]

  but you know these are all pieces of [TS]

  intellectual property and we can never [TS]

  forget that [TS]

  can I mention one Marvel announcement [TS]

  that happened today that I'm actually [TS]

  really really excited about it go for it [TS]

  sana amin pot is an editor at Marvel [TS]

  she's one of the people that created [TS]

  Kamala Khan the current ms marvel she's [TS]

  being promoted to director of content [TS]

  and character development and I think [TS]

  that's a great move because she's great [TS]

  at a new position it's not clear ice [TS]

  I've never heard of anyone else with [TS]

  that position but that might have that [TS]

  that's interesting because that [TS]

  character development i find fascinating [TS]

  because one of the problems that the big [TS]

  the big to have had is nobody wants to [TS]

  create new characters that's their [TS]

  intellectual property because they'd [TS]

  rather go create create characters on [TS]

  their own that they own and so they can [TS]

  be like brian michael bendis and sell [TS]

  powers to TV and make a lot of money or [TS]

  be like Robert Kirkman and sell walking [TS]

  dead TV and make a lot of money and/or [TS]

  yeah and you can name is going on so [TS]

  character development I find that [TS]

  fascinating because i think that is one [TS]

  and we talked about this on the show [TS]

  before I think that's one of the [TS]

  problems of Marvel and DC have had is [TS]

  they've been stifled the last 10 or 20 [TS]

  years by you know there's not a lot of [TS]

  new stuff coming from then they are [TS]

  doing a lot of retreading because who [TS]

  would create this new stuff that [TS]

  would create this new stuff that [TS]

  them but one of the really cool new [TS]

  things they do have is coming back on [TS]

  yes so the fact that what if that [TS]

  characters creators is in this position [TS]

  I think that's it clearly shows a good [TS]

  commitment [TS]

  yeah I like that I like I do find it [TS]

  interesting that Marvel although it is [TS]

  both interesting and and sets off my [TS]

  cynic my cynical alert and that [TS]

  experience [TS]

  well he is doing as well first you have [TS]

  the x-men they all the Optio lady x-men [TS]

  team that launched and the book Frank [TS]

  that could be better than it is but I do [TS]

  find it fascinating that they've they've [TS]

  done this this and now they're doing [TS]

  this booth with the Avengers as well and [TS]

  part of me is thinking okay this is [TS]

  great because on the one hand you get a [TS]

  lot of characters and you can see them [TS]

  interact with each other as colleagues [TS]

  and equals and not just as the token [TS]

  woman on some other team and I like that [TS]

  because you know even older lineups if [TS]

  it was the x-men it was usually Oh [TS]

  it'sit's some body and it's a tank and [TS]

  it's and it's a god Scott and there's [TS]

  gene and she's the girl that grip and [TS]

  instead you have some even when you have [TS]

  an excellent team is detectable x-women [TS]

  tits [TS]

  there's no that and the girl they're all [TS]

  the girls so this way they're all just [TS]

  people [TS]

  hooray yay and hopefully with the [TS]

  Avengers the same thing we're all just [TS]

  people hooray yay [TS]

  um but part of me wonders if this is a [TS]

  little bit of political theater so so [TS]

  there's that will work with women in [TS]

  comics are committed to diversity and [TS]

  you know on also we're making in this [TS]

  Marvel movie eventually pay no attention [TS]

  to the crazy ratio you know there's part [TS]

  of me that wonders if this is a well if [TS]

  we give the ladies their own book and we [TS]

  give them this the sort of character [TS]

  development and this opportunity to [TS]

  reach continuity we don't have to worry [TS]

  about it across all books and we can [TS]

  tell women that were building products [TS]

  for them [TS]

  I feel like sometimes that they've done [TS]

  better [TS]

  they've done so much better they were [TS]

  doing the 90 min the early audience but [TS]

  I still feel like sometimes there is a [TS]

  mindset in corporate comics that women [TS]

  are kind of another species and the [TS]

  question is how to get women to read [TS]

  comics and how do you write women in [TS]

  comics as opposed to oh they're human [TS]

  beings and they like to buy things and [TS]

  they have wildly different tastes like [TS]

  women are not a monolithic a monolithic [TS]

  consumer entity and they're not a [TS]

  monolithic storytelling almond either [TS]

  that's why the dc's announcement today [TS]

  was partly so interesting because they [TS]

  just they just blasted here's a list of [TS]

  all the books were doing all the talent [TS]

  that we've got working on them and great [TS]

  pie i first found out about this [TS]

  announcement great boxing look at how [TS]

  many asian-americans are but the asian [TS]

  americans are working on on key titles [TS]

  and then you look at look at look at all [TS]

  the women that are working on key titles [TS]

  and not necessarily here's the here's [TS]

  our women's line it's just we just [TS]

  happened to have hired a lot of people [TS]

  that are not white dudes to a two-door [TS]

  comics so it's the it's getting better [TS]

  and there was an interview with Kelly [TS]

  sue deconnick recently where she said I [TS]

  used to know every other woman who is [TS]

  working on my local on comics and I [TS]

  don't anymore and I think that's [TS]

  fantastic you know so i want to [TS]

  emphasize it is getting better than the [TS]

  fact that i can rattle off three or [TS]

  three or four what i would consider a [TS]

  level writers where the same levels as [TS]

  Bendis and burn the rest off the top of [TS]

  my head i think i could have maybe named [TS]

  one about 10 to 15 years ago so but but [TS]

  but at the same time there's a little [TS]

  bit theater going on i think with all 80 [TS]

  teams you know I'm getting suspicious of [TS]

  why they're been making such a big deal [TS]

  about of rolling them out and does this [TS]

  really and does this really count right [TS]

  yes it counts come on that you're acting [TS]

  like this didn't even happen [TS]

  our range body is the best mounting [TS]

  maybe their pandering to women a little [TS]

  but that at least they're admitting they [TS]

  exist now this this is the thing that [TS]

  came up when we did that episode about [TS]

  their about the comic-book recasting a [TS]

  few months ago and I I've sort of [TS]

  settled on the idea that it can be both [TS]

  it can be both a marketing ploy and [TS]

  actually have not only some creative and [TS]

  artistic merit but also it does serve as [TS]

  a signal to women that there there's [TS]

  some attention being paid to them and [TS]

  that and that girls can read comics and [TS]

  see women in all these different [TS]

  positions that maybe weren't there [TS]

  before but so it's like you know it can [TS]

  be both [TS]

  I don't think that they use it as [TS]

  marketing for what it was but why would [TS]

  I say that maybe it doesn't count [TS]

  so much that i was so I was super [TS]

  excited about it i thought i would get [TS]

  the idea of just not a full not a lady [TS]

  Avengers team but it's a full Avengers [TS]

  team that happens to be like all women [TS]

  are going to be here is going to [TS]

  showcase for female characters that [TS]

  we've got and then I saw that [TS]

  such a great idea that is always some [TS]

  pointed out that oh it's a secret worst [TS]

  title [TS]

  okay so they're doing this confident [TS]

  knowing that at some point secret wars [TS]

  will be over with and they don't have to [TS]

  continue with this book anymore [TS]

  well no comic is forever harley quinn [TS]

  was like no one would think that was [TS]

  going to be a huge hit and I was like [TS]

  Natalie's not only is a huge hit guys [TS]

  going on for second year but it's [TS]

  getting its own spin-off yeah i think [TS]

  what I'd say is if a force does well [TS]

  it's not going anywhere [TS]

  yeah no matter what is happening in the [TS]

  Secret Wars if a force as well it's not [TS]

  going to go anywhere i'd like to direct [TS]

  you to the new director of content and [TS]

  character development dominant woman of [TS]

  South Asian descent that really does [TS]

  make me feel happy about Kamala Khan [TS]

  because the the I think that one of the [TS]

  things a lot of people myself included [TS]

  are really worried about whenever they [TS]

  hear about these reboots is that i [TS]

  really like I really like this book like [TS]

  ms marvel i really like this book and I [TS]

  don't want this book to be rebooted I [TS]

  don't want this free but I don't want [TS]

  her to be have now there's gonna be a [TS]

  new reality in which you know she's 28 [TS]

  years old and she's hot she's a member [TS]

  of the Avengers I really want her to be [TS]

  there the self of the the self-declared [TS]

  superhero of a little bit of a little [TS]

  town in New Jersey and that's and that's [TS]

  where I want this book to be it's it's [TS]

  it's like I don't want you to reboot [TS]

  something I like it's like you go to the [TS]

  doctor and you're free checkup and [TS]

  you're feeling great [TS]

  that's the biggest dread you ever have [TS]

  because that you know that when you you [TS]

  know that after a three-hour examination [TS]

  the doctors not gonna say good news it [TS]

  turns out that you have a superpower you [TS]

  can chicken out like cook meat by [TS]

  starting out with your eyes the only [TS]

  possible news i'll come with us Oh turns [TS]

  out that we found something and we're [TS]

  going to send you in for an MRI but [TS]

  we're not going to tell you what to [TS]

  worry about like oh just give you the [TS]

  results of this horrible test please wow [TS]

  I I i think i lost the story about that [TS]

  I was focused on meat cooking vision [TS]

  which i think is Superman's new power [TS]

  rankings and popular parties to you have [TS]

  to fire up the grill anymore it's one of [TS]

  his old powers actually well technically [TS]

  well this is very specific get to meet [TS]

  ok it's not heat risen related this is a [TS]

  more microwave power he can't cook [TS]

  potatoes just meet ya know ya SDSU's [TS]

  actually nothing metal short throws [TS]

  sparks you know no popcorn [TS]

  it's always burns at [TS]

  yeah I think so I mean just to wrap this [TS]

  up III wanted to say the you know at all [TS]

  of these things are its card and [TS]

  commerce together and if if if ms marvel [TS]

  I mean even if it's so cynical is to say [TS]

  what we're going to do a force and it's [TS]

  all women but we know that it's all part [TS]

  of the secret wars event in six months [TS]

  we're gonna kill it if the reaction is [TS]

  good they they will keep it around [TS]

  because it will be a way for them to [TS]

  sell comic book that is successful I I [TS]

  don't think it's quite as cynical as to [TS]

  say well we can say that we're making [TS]

  progress and then six months later we [TS]

  can just kill it [TS]

  don't everybody to wait six months for [TS]

  it to actually get cancelled before we [TS]

  declare it a cynical said marketing ploy [TS]

  what I would have been more pleased with [TS]

  this if they had done this last year [TS]

  outside of an event then that using [TS]

  excuses we're doing this big thing and [TS]

  we get we can do we can launch all these [TS]

  titles that are related to this event as [TS]

  opposed to simply like ms marvel was not [TS]

  tied it was technically inspired by the [TS]

  the Inhumans saga or whatever they're [TS]

  doing whatever craziness doing over [TS]

  there but it was not the x-men it was [TS]

  more it was more like we're going with [TS]

  this is an opportunity to create new [TS]

  heroes to create a new hero book [TS]

  what kind of curious do we want to [TS]

  create as dozen ongoing thing i'm not [TS]

  happy and I don't believe in being [TS]

  cynical about this time soon as simply [TS]

  saying that I've I would feel more [TS]

  optimistic about if they are being [TS]

  launched as a regular series outside of [TS]

  event knowing how many times they [TS]

  launched things as part of events with [TS]

  no intention of ever following through [TS]

  on it big events are when new books get [TS]

  announced DC announced a whole new line [TS]

  and bait as far as i can tell held on to [TS]

  them for a good long time until [TS]

  established nobody was reading some of [TS]

  them and then they dropped some which [TS]

  they do all the time anyway they [TS]

  announce this as a new monthly series [TS]

  that's going to be part of the results [TS]

  of secret wars that's exactly the same [TS]

  as saying we have our stupid one year [TS]

  later jump forward and you're our new 52 [TS]

  series and big events are what launched [TS]

  new books and scope it sounds like a [TS]

  great book and i will definitely buy it [TS]

  i'll enjoy it for however long we have [TS]

  ok good conversation everybody gotta [TS]

  stop in somewhere the referee is called [TS]

  fight standing eight count everybody in [TS]

  the corners [TS]

  fortunately there four of us in the four [TS]

  corners so we'll be okay thank you for [TS]

  talking about many many comic book [TS]

  related things I appreciate it [TS]

  Lisa Schmeisser thanks for being here it [TS]

  was my pleasure [TS]

  Monty Ashley a pleasure as always comics [TS]

  are fun [TS]

  yay and an eco thank you [TS]

  I'm spent throw in the towel ooh throw [TS]

  it and I can't fight no more [TS]

  alright and to everybody out there [TS]

  thanks for listening to encumber ball [TS]

  this has been jason l we will see you [TS]

  next time [TS]

  we didn't talk about Superman's new [TS]

  power which is not to be less boring huh [TS]

  he's had so many dumb powers in the past [TS]

  the problem is it's it's fundamentally [TS]

  he should be he should be a really [TS]

  unnerving character because you're [TS]

  talking about a super-powered alien who [TS]

  has chosen to infiltrate society and an [TS]

  end and ostensibly acting our interests [TS]

  and I'm just much more interested in the [TS]

  idea of an alien who is infiltrating [TS]

  society because you know i would like to [TS]

  conquer this planet or he infiltrates [TS]

  society but he passes really poorly [TS]

  because he doesn't understand the innate [TS]

  communications body language that we all [TS]

  grew up internalizing or something to [TS]

  conquer this planet that's why you like [TS]

  invincible it's because that's exactly [TS]

  what Nolan is is not removed but he's [TS]

  secretly part of an alien race is going [TS]

  to take us over and starts trying to [TS]

  remember the name of the short story [TS]

  it's in the John Varley superheroes [TS]

  collection and short story basically [TS]

  right from the perspective of Superman [TS]

  where he actually does have a really [TS]

  difficult time picking up on people's [TS]

  language simply because so much of human [TS]

  communication comes down to body [TS]

  language and it's actually good [TS]

  the the body language we have actually [TS]

  the only doctor primates so there's some [TS]

  argument that it's entirely unconscious [TS]

  and processing it on a different level [TS]

  than we process spoken language but [TS]

  because his brain is wired so [TS]

  differently he misses out and he can [TS]

  barely keep up with conversations and [TS]

  when a group he comes back to his [TS]

  apartment to try to put the moves on me [TS]

  like I have no idea [TS]

  I don't even know why you're here i'm [TS]

  not attracted to you we can never have a [TS]

  meal together because my metabolism [TS]

  can't handle any carbon-based who and [TS]

  just the idea that super that a Superman [TS]

  like character would be so fundamentally [TS]

  isolated both socially and and [TS]

  cognitively has always stuck with me [TS]

  something would be worth exploring more [TS]

  well not Superman because he was raised [TS]

  here well he may have been raised here [TS]

  but if his body is fundamentally [TS]

  different he may not be able to have the [TS]

  same foods I mean think about how even [TS]

  different cultures there are some there [TS]

  are some us gene not us there's some [TS]

  there are some human gene pools where [TS]

  people can't I just not because their [TS]

  ancestors had it for years [TS]

  sure i'll talk about body language yeah [TS]

  yeah but that's that's that's almost [TS]

  exactly the problem that i have with [TS]

  like a lot of conflict riding and even [TS]

  rebooting where it's like you have you [TS]

  have a character that is essentially he [TS]

  is Superman [TS]

  literally Superman Wonder kid watching I [TS]

  really want to see stories about the [TS]

  adventures of superman but then you have [TS]

  so many riders that are like wait a [TS]

  minute i just figured something out if [TS]

  his hair grows but it can't be cut [TS]

  what if we have a whole storyline in [TS]

  which he has to it's like Rapunzel he [TS]

  flies and you know exactly what is that [TS]

  how do we want we explain why no one [TS]

  figures out he's Clark Kent like well I [TS]

  don't really care when figuring out [TS]

  who's Clark and I'm I've had happened [TS]

  with the explanation that just like you [TS]

  the the guy who's that the barista your [TS]

  starbucks the kind of sex to lego brock [TS]

  obama you never wonder if he's actually [TS]

  open Rocco publix move on tell me [TS]

  stories about this incredible guy [TS]

  my problem is that there's so many [TS]

  people in the DC Universe it sounds cool [TS]

  to say well he's an alien who decided to [TS]

  infiltrate the planet and help us but [TS]

  there's like 12 of them in the Yankees [TS]

  American man hunter is right next to him [TS]

  doing exactly the same so do do so it [TS]

  has it has decided infiltrate this is [TS]

  just this is just his home is just where [TS]

  he grew up [TS]

  that's true that's always been the [TS]

  coolest thing about that character to me [TS]

  anyway uh I said I'm kind things about [TS]

  Superman on Twitter and I'm not sorry [TS]

  now that's if there's one thing that [TS]

  Marvel can never be they can never have [TS]

  that trinity of Superman Batman Wonder [TS]

  Woman just these three huge operatic [TS]

  characters where you could write stories [TS]

  on an immense kisses the Arthurian [TS]

  legend all over again where Superman is [TS]

  Arthur Batman is Lancelot and Wonder [TS]

  Woman is gonna fare what ya the [TS]

  connection between one woman and [TS]

  Guinevere i would like you to expand on [TS]

  that without mentioning her gender [TS]

  that's the only thing I see their [TS]

  Guinevere is strongly tied to the [TS]

  roundtable the roundtables would [TS]

  introduce the entire notion of justice [TS]

  and and noble knighthood and it was the [TS]

  could end it helped confer legitimacy to [TS]

  arthur's rain by becoming a simple [TS]

  statehood sochi so one of your was both [TS]

  political marriage and a symbol of [TS]

  statehood that elevated Arthur and sort [TS]

  of gave him the social permission he [TS]

  needed to do what he needs to do in [TS]

  Britain ok ok I to wonder woman tied to [TS]

  any woman wonder woman is in many ways [TS]

  the pragmatic conscience of the Justice [TS]

  League and [TS]

  somebody who has some pretty pretty well [TS]

  thought out if not nuance but she's got [TS]

  some fair she's got some pretty well [TS]

  thought out ideas on what constitutes [TS]

  justice and to whom it applies and under [TS]

  what circumstances I would argue that in [TS]

  a lot of ways she's the moral authority [TS]

  of the Justice League in the way that's [TS]

  Superman is not i mean Superman is [TS]

  supposed to be for truth justice and the [TS]

  American Way wonder woman's got around a [TS]

  bigger picture [TS]

  I yeah I think I just she's written well [TS]

  she's been written poorly and everything [TS]

  every time I've enjoyed it it's been you [TS]

  get this sense of gravity of she's been [TS]

  around 4,000 years or more and with the [TS]

  jarwin cook i like the Darwin cook [TS]

  iteration of Wonder Woman where she goes [TS]

  into Vietnam and she starts teaching [TS]

  women how to fight back [TS]

  I think one might have the biggest range [TS]

  of good and bad writing like there's [TS]

  been some bad Batman's but there's been [TS]

  some really bad Wonder Woman inning [TS]

  yeah yeah take it i think that you soon [TS]

  as you just take a look at the boots if [TS]

  they have heels you're not being [TS]

  strapped in it's not going to be was not [TS]

  going to be a good ride if she's were [TS]

  critical just your Wonder Woman Budaj oh [TS]

  my goodness I love not exactly [TS]

  Catwoman to it's like shit i never got [TS]

  interesting that character until the [TS]

  readers I think it was the the Darwin [TS]

  cook redesign together you get to him [TS]

  where what if we just put him in she's a [TS]

  street-level fighter put her in [TS]

  motorcycle boots something that's [TS]

  practical she cannot be in stiletto [TS]

  heels we can we can kind of justify the [TS]

  whip because it's going to double as a [TS]

  belt and stylistic thing but she's got [TS]

  to wear some sensible boots yeah this is [TS]

  what this is why I go up and down all [TS]

  the different Black Canary outfits as [TS]

  I'm like well the fish guts are kind of [TS]

  iconic but on the other hand not [TS]

  practical [TS]

  they're not welcome from like Kevlar at [TS]

  least she's got a leather jacket though [TS]

  like that something [TS]

  yeah I i would I wouldn't i would i [TS]

  would be less uncomfortable with black [TS]

  canary if she were not wearing fishnets [TS]

  yeah I'm a little concerned about what [TS]

  the art is going to be like a harley [TS]

  quinn and power girl [TS]

  oh god well didn't forget new outfit you [TS]

  know Starfire got an outfit that is that [TS]

  is not a bikini it's not like a monokini [TS]

  d yeah it's better than the sexpot [TS]

  person that's right progress already had [TS]

  the the harley quinn Power Girl team up [TS]

  in her own book [TS]

  thatthat's they're great characters of [TS]

  play off each other so gotten god knows [TS]

  what version we're going to see by the [TS]

  time this is published but power power [TS]

  power girls the one with a boob window [TS]

  right they torture into they worked they [TS]

  worked harley quinn to air already which [TS]

  is very funny very briefly she had awful [TS]

  an off-camera line it was an off-camera [TS]

  line but I was like oh my gosh don't [TS]

  think some officers are a year behind a [TS]

  narrow so shotwell this this was last [TS]

  year [TS]

  okay well so shush I still don't [TS]

  understand why they can't just cast tara [TS]

  strong as Harley clean in a movie or TV [TS]

  show she does the voice better than [TS]

  anyone that early instruction and she [TS]

  looks like Harley Quinn but when they're [TS]

  doing this [TS]

  Suicide Squad movie differently if I may [TS]

  be honest the reason we're not going to [TS]

  casters because she's in her forties [TS]

  right [TS]

  what's that stuff called white on know [TS]

  you that you say you say but the thing [TS]

  is they want they want women that and [TS]

  this is going to sound me they want [TS]

  women that 20-something man can prevent [TS]

  can can be like well plausibly for ready [TS]

  to go to the bar the age difference will [TS]

  not be so great [TS]

  well here is my basic thesis about [TS]

  harley quinn the more clothes she has on [TS]

  the sexier the character is you may be [TS]

  alone in that piece [TS]

  oh yeah look at her in Batman the [TS]

  Animated Series covered head-to-toe I [TS]

  was horrible and that yeah [TS]

  now look at the juggalo version for me [TS]

  after that new 52 started but everyone [TS]

  hates her [TS]

  yeah I just I just don't know that she's [TS]

  ever sexy because she's she's got a real [TS]

  flaming instability that yeah she does [TS]

  yeah we want you want you want to watch [TS]

  from a safe distance but you don't want [TS]

  her to ever know your name [TS]

  listen don't judge me chris sims might [TS]

  have written the definitive collar on [TS]

  the unspeakable tragedy of being harley [TS]

  quinn where the ideas that she's [TS]

  hopelessly in love with fish like even [TS]

  her dream of being in love with somebody [TS]

  is just so fundamentally rotten and [TS]

  wrong there's no way she can never live [TS]

  as a fulfilled person in any capacity [TS]

  whatsoever and that's that's just a huge [TS]

  tragedy when you stop to think about it [TS]

  so it's made me feel very sorry for this [TS]

  whack job character I've always thought [TS]

  there was a real sadness about her [TS]

  because the Joker is just a force of [TS]

  untamable insanity almost like a force [TS]

  of nature is harley quinn is this woman [TS]

  who [TS]

  is has issues she really seems to have a [TS]

  mental illness that keeps her from [TS]

  having a normal life and that their way [TS]

  there could be a way of curing her of [TS]

  this but it's just not going to happen [TS]

  in her current condition and that's [TS]

  always to me that's always that tied [TS]

  it's never at the forefront but every [TS]

  time as i'm reading these these books by [TS]

  a paparazzi and and and a controversial [TS]

  name Amen Amanda Connor I love these [TS]

  books there's always that tiny little [TS]

  thing of ours this just a drop of trans [TS]

  tragedy in there [TS]

  yeah my favorite harley quinn is in [TS]

  Batman adventures the comic book that's [TS]

  based on batman the animated animated [TS]

  series after they peel her away from the [TS]

  Joker and she's hanging out with poison [TS]

  ivy [TS]

  it's a very similar dynamic because she [TS]

  really likes IV and IV sort of tolerate [TS]

  ER but it's healthier than with the [TS]

  Joker DC Comics I don't you should read [TS]

  Batman adventures those are fun [TS]

  well is not a huge Gail Simone fangirl [TS]

  and hurt her see her villains united in [TS]

  secret six are phenomenal and i love the [TS]

  secret six forearm for the puppet the [TS]

  guy who has replaced all these joints [TS]

  without rotating ball bearings because [TS]

  he's he's harley quinn levels of crazy [TS]

  and he's delightful because he spends [TS]

  all of his evildoing money on buying gum [TS]

  custom-made outfits for his book first [TS]

  pet monkeys and its just oh it's awesome [TS]

  you've got to read it and the letter M [TS]

  Sonya is also fun and the land the [TS]

  lettering for that series is exquisite [TS]

  because she did they do a really good [TS]

  job of different a very different [TS]

  lettering styles from the characters but [TS]