The Talk Show

34: I Don`t Want To Put Down My Drink

 

  what a week it's been a really crazy one for a number of reasons so did just [TS]

  before we came on the air here there's an announcement from the mailbox guys [TS]

  yes is so this is a breaking news I'm a never know how to handle that on the [TS]

  show because it's a weekly show but the mailbox guys are joining Dropbox yes so [TS]

  of course I should mention that was an investor in in mailbox and I know you [TS]

  and I both tested it before it came out and I think I know you and I had [TS]

  differing opinions on that you know you you wrote about some viewers few weeks [TS]

  ago I guess talking about how it didn't really work into your workflow mainly I [TS]

  think you know you made a lot of good points I think but mainly cuz you don't [TS]

  use Gmail primarily right right we have more or less I use Gmail in a weird way [TS]

  and it didn't fit with Mel by then it was one of the neatest email I still I [TS]

  really you know my compliments for sincere I think it's a great app just [TS]

  what it implies a certain way of doing email that didn't fit with the way I use [TS]

  all my other clients yeah I think there was a big part and will be will remain a [TS]

  big part of my life because of course are not shutting it down this is going [TS]

  to remain a product under the Dropbox brand but a big part of it was kind of [TS]

  letting go of the way that you did previously do email and I think that's [TS]

  why the people who had a hard time getting into it I talked to a number of [TS]

  them of course and once some of those people were able to just like totally [TS]

  let go of their previous ways that they were doing email and almost Lake archive [TS]

  everything and then just wait for new stuff to come in and then keep archiving [TS]

  in Turkey pushing it then they sort of got into it and and I sort of I got into [TS]

  it immediately because I had actually done that by myself before mailbox even [TS]

  existed I just decided well you know email was getting way out of control I [TS]

  just said the archive everything and then I was starting kind of fresh and [TS]

  then I would [TS]

  buxton exists I would almost at the end of every week and on the weekend go [TS]

  through all my email that came in and just go through it as quickly as [TS]

  possible and then archived in anything I didn't need and then respond to anything [TS]

  I needed to this just let me to do it in a much more simple way on the iPhone [TS]

  itself now it's a I think it's a really interesting way to do email on a small [TS]

  screen device and the other thing now one of the reasons I think it works so [TS]

  well and and what they're almost infamous for is that to use the app [TS]

  you've got a sign up and you gotta wait for your turn in people crack a lot of [TS]

  jokes about how long it's taking for people to get let in but it's not like [TS]

  just an arbitrary we're trying to be exclusive to be cool it's because [TS]

  there's a server-side component and this is part of what makes it work so well is [TS]

  you you give your Gmail credentials to mailbox and they check your mail from [TS]

  them right right and an appt interfaces with them and so it makes it way more [TS]

  efficient yeah and I think they really did nail that you know if they were [TS]

  really worried about rolling out too quickly that this would crash and bring [TS]

  the whole thing so I think you know it really was a necessity that they did [TS]

  that the system that they that they made and I think it's a pretty ingenious [TS]

  system I know a lot of people are upset just because the way it has been so long [TS]

  you still have been letting everyone even now but yet was totally out of [TS]

  necessity and they worked a lot on the back end of that system to make it all [TS]

  work as seamlessly as it doesn't really doesn't mean I ain't no use it to on my [TS]

  iPad is done both iPods the big one and the many even though it's of course not [TS]

  tailored specifically for those but it's great how justice is constantly in sync [TS]

  between all of them and it's great that you can also use it with regular Gmail [TS]

  when you're on your desktop because they do a smart things with folders within [TS]

  Gmail so they have you know mailbox / later / weekend and all the different [TS]

  labeling system so it was a really smart way that they went about doing it [TS]

  obvious here is a huge fan of the product and I will remain a huge fan I [TS]

  think that the Dropbox deal is very smart from drop boxes perspective you [TS]

  know you think about what dropbox is there now moving [TS]

  towards it looks like becoming sort of a cloud based OS in their own right [TS]

  yeah and the Dropbox there's a couple of things on a totally funny coincidence [TS]

  that you're the guest on the show this weekend that you're you know the mailbox [TS]

  Kaiser Investor because this literally broke like an hour ago [TS]

  yeah but what you know clearly one of the things the Dropbox com everybody [TS]

  knows is that good they could obviously bring them expertise with scaling [TS]

  large amounts of information large amounts of concurrency huge number of [TS]

  users and a terrific almost you know maybe unparalleled reputation for [TS]

  reliability yeah and it's so I think I think tropics they've over a hundred [TS]

  million users something like that a god knows how many files they're actually [TS]

  working with but I think the mailbox guys you know I think they realize that [TS]

  they had a huge hit on their hands but I think also they knew that in order for [TS]

  this to to keep working as well as it has been working there needs to be a [TS]

  need to really get to scale pretty quickly as a number of other people I [TS]

  soon will be coming after them you know who knows what would Google is doing [TS]

  itself with Gmail and this this gets them right to where they need to be in [TS]

  in in a Dropbox now all the sudden how do I do a lot of people still send still [TS]

  send attachments it's over email and so they can a perfect system to do that now [TS]

  so let me let me pressure a little bit though as an investor isn't this a [TS]

  little early for somebody to sell you know it is it is pretty quick we've [TS]

  we've had this happen a number of times now you know the last hit example is the [TS]

  kind of video the quick video sharing service that that's what are acquired [TS]

  actually before they launched and that's going to be a record that might be hard [TS]

  to you know the good news is that that I think you know [TS]

  fine or a General Partner at his is doing a good job of picking some [TS]

  services that are pretty compelling in and end up being a good things the [TS]

  downside is you know it's it is a little bit bittersweet to see these things you [TS]

  know just be taken under someone else's wing so quickly after they launched her [TS]

  like mine before they launched you know because you always want to see a startup [TS]

  try to do it by themselves see what skills they can get to see if they can [TS]

  become you know the next giant company on their own and I think that's why you [TS]

  know they think that's why every investor kind of makes their initial [TS]

  investment to begin with you know of course they're great outcomes and then [TS]

  that's you know that's the way that it works but I think that you don't make an [TS]

  initial investment hoping that someone's going to sell the company within six [TS]

  months because he would be an awful overall investor if you did that well [TS]

  and why you say it's bittersweet the big difference between both of those [TS]

  acquisitions and a lot of the acquisitions that I've had my eye on in [TS]

  the last couple of years which is it's not the they're both fine was acquired [TS]

  and so they could launch fine and divine invite is what was meant to be and [TS]

  mailbox like we said is continued no dropouts bought it so they can continue [TS]

  doing it this isn't those one of those talent acquisitions were right the bear [TS]

  company takes the product in but all they really wanted was the team and the [TS]

  product immediately goes into shutdown mode I mean perfect a perfect parallel [TS]

  cuz it's also was a popular iOS Mac email client was pero of course right [TS]

  and now and right that's that's sort of I don't want to say that sort of the [TS]

  nightmare scenario that that you kinda dread but I think that by all accounts [TS]

  that's not been the greatest exit and I don't know I don't know from an insider [TS]

  perspective would not invest on that or anything I just think that you know that [TS]

  that was a pure aqua higher the product is still working but they said to [TS]

  immediately right after you know that they're basically gonna stop developing [TS]

  for it or they're going to open source some of it I think they said yeah [TS]

  but you know yet who talks about the barrel right and so that yes you're [TS]

  right that is like the worst case scenario where that happens quite often [TS]

  and it's great that both vine in their mailbox are going to live on and you [TS]

  know I think I think we're already seeing that one finds case there were [TS]

  some numbers earlier this week that they're getting to a scale that's that's [TS]

  really impressive pretty quickly and that's something that Twitter enables [TS]

  you know who knows if they would've been able to do that on their own you'd like [TS]

  to think that they could have done that on their own but you know I think that I [TS]

  think there's no question that Twitter gets them to a place that they want to [TS]

  be faster than they could possibly do it if they if they remained independent I I [TS]

  would also again I'm not trying to put on the spot and have you reveal things [TS]

  to do not ready to reveal but in addition to scaling dropbox is doing [TS]

  really well financially might help the mailbox team expand a little bit so that [TS]

  they can get to i mean i think what's obviously you know would be coming next [TS]

  would be an iPad native client and maybe even a Mac client sure yeah I mean I [TS]

  think that everyone has been clamoring for those since since I started using [TS]

  the the iPhone version something to you said that if they had a Mac line might [TS]

  even that would make it sort of interesting to you because then you [TS]

  could use it more seamlessly with your workflow right because it seems that's [TS]

  the gist of Michael [TS]

  not named in a complaint just an observation with the workbook as I know [TS]

  a lot of people when they're on your Mac when they do email there in a browser on [TS]

  gmail.com and if that's how you do e-mail I think mailbox on your iPhone is [TS]

  a no brainer but it's really something you should look at but i dont I use [TS]

  Apple Mail I really don't like the Gmail interface and so I used Gmail back email [TS]

  addresses but primarily just as IMAP with really good spam filtering yeah [TS]

  yeah I got I got that and you know I do use Gmail on the web [TS]

  actually I only use its basically for search and it kinda look at things [TS]

  quickly as a coming into a day when I respond to email before mailbox used to [TS]

  be I would just use the iPad with with the Logitech Keyboard because it's so [TS]

  much faster than trying to use the web based email [TS]

  so I don't know you know but but you know if I could use mailbox everywhere [TS]

  it would be a bit would make a big difference you know that's really the [TS]

  bottom of my complaint but I am excited about this this does seem like it seems [TS]

  like good news overall yeah I think it's it's it's two great companies that will [TS]

  only help box and it gets to the point where they need to be with all these [TS]

  different clients and Dropbox seems you know i mean you never know but Dropbox [TS]

  really does seem from the outside 22 almost like Twitter they're they're [TS]

  determined to stay independent like you know you never say never but it doesn't [TS]

  seem my dropbox is interested in selling right we had of course there are the [TS]

  rumors are talked a long time ago about that the meeting with Steve Jobs between [TS]

  you know sort of trying to bully them into into selling or what not and yeah I [TS]

  mean they've raised a huge amount of money and I think that they have I think [TS]

  that they're making a huge amount of money I don't know I'm not privy to [TS]

  their to their actual finances but yeah I think that they'll be fine staying [TS]

  independent and I think that's the plan so that's great lots of other news this [TS]

  week but we have a couple of sponsors this week so let me let me do one right [TS]

  now I'm gonna tell you about things and things clouds think everybody knows [TS]

  things things have been a popular Mac and iOS to do [TS]

  system for a couple of years but the big news thing that they've launched fairly [TS]

  recently as things clouds and it was in the works for a while almost was [TS]

  notorious for you know hey when you guys gonna get sink but it's out now and it [TS]

  really does work great and so if you use things on your Mac and on your iPhone [TS]

  you login with things clouds sink and it all just works now part of the thing [TS]

  that makes it great that they develop their own system rather than waiting for [TS]

  say Apple is all of the problems a lot of people are having with iCloud sync [TS]

  and core data you know most notorious we could almost do a whole show on [TS]

  they're not using it and I think it shows as their sink works instantly and [TS]

  they also have a really cool feature and this would never happen through iCloud [TS]

  but one of the things they have with things cloud is what they call local [TS]

  push and 11 device sends an update to the cloud also broadcasts and encrypted [TS]

  notification over the local network telling other clients that are logged in [TS]

  at the same time in the same account I got that say in your little on your home [TS]

  wi-fi network that they should check for updates now and so when you try this out [TS]

  and I did it it's almost bizarre it's like you type something on your Mac and [TS]

  you have your iPhone open and it it's almost like you're typing on your iPhone [TS]

  from your Mac you hit return and there it shows up really really great other [TS]

  notable features they've got they've got integration with Siri so you can speaker [TS]

  to do is directly into things they have a new daily review feature that [TS]

  streamlines your daily decision-making sort of take a look at your hope I love [TS]

  to do is when am I gonna do today and they have a new custom-designed [TS]

  scrolling datepicker really really nice UI much I think they really have sort of [TS]

  build something better than a standard for picking dates to assign data to your [TS]

  to do's so check out things to give it a spin but you've really gotta think about [TS]

  the cloud sync it to understand just how great the system and they have right now [TS]

  is checking out at cultured code dot com see ult you are ed CEO de dot com in my [TS]

  thanks to them for sponsoring the show this week it's interesting that things [TS]

  was was one of your sponsors you know that going to check mailbox for a second [TS]

  their original product was orchestra which was also had to do a to do list [TS]

  just never really I think was was pretty interesting they were doing before [TS]

  series instead they were doing some of the [TS]

  the voice techniques to kind you know just be able to hit a button and speak [TS]

  your to do list yet just never really took off in in the same way that some of [TS]

  those are there to do is have yeah I feel like they the end and the orchestra [TS]

  thing was sort of a everybody's using their inboxes a to-do list is there a [TS]

  way that we can go with that and then something and I remember looking at it [TS]

  and thinking interesting but didn't quite click right but it's it's it's [TS]

  gonna end up being you know it already is one of those fascinating stories [TS]

  where what they were doing early on where it while it didn't quite click [TS]

  really did lead to the idea of what mailbox was because when you look at the [TS]

  mailbox is basically is why I think that they realize the the notion of your [TS]

  email inbox is a to-do list that someone else makes for you so why don't we just [TS]

  kind of take that to the next you know logical step in making an actual sort of [TS]

  to-do list pushed up off to do later to bring back that kind of stuff yeah it's [TS]

  an it's an interesting way of not staying too attached to your first idea [TS]

  letting it take you to the next new idea don't stay too attached so what else [TS]

  would you want to do next about the shoulder interviews sure so on the eve I [TS]

  could guess it was actually two days before but it's so that the articles [TS]

  would hit the day before the galaxy s4 launch Phil Schiller did two interviews [TS]

  with one with the wall street journal one with the writers are we sure there [TS]

  were only two also cause I know both you and I didn't see that Reuters want to [TS]

  begin with I think we all know neither now and I think it hit later [TS]

  you know maybe it was conducted later to and why Reuters went to a Reuters like I [TS]

  don't know I it's all a little little knew I don't know curious yeah I don't [TS]

  think either really went well at least it didn't play out I think the way that [TS]

  Apple wanted to go ahead and I do think and you know I think you'd you're a [TS]

  little bit more [TS]

  this was a mistake when I am I don't put words but I just say the headlines the [TS]

  headline in the wall street journal was in rare move Apple goes on the defensive [TS]

  against Samsung that's clearly not what Apple you know was going for flight by [TS]

  speaking if anything they would want the opposite write a program the offices [TS]

  exactly well and that's what Reuters headline was Reuters headline is Apple's [TS]

  schiller blasts Android comma Samsung on galaxies Eve so at least thats I think [TS]

  the headline that Apple was going for ya yeah I i assume with the reuters saying [TS]

  the only the only sense I can make it is that they knew that this was going to be [TS]

  sort of a huge press events I think one of the first ones that Samsung has done [TS]

  in the United States true for these types of things and so with Reuters they [TS]

  wanted to get the the biggest widest mainstream media reaches possible and [TS]

  same with Wall Street Journal and also for a little bit more from the business [TS]

  perspective I imagined but it's still don't know I do think it was a mistake [TS]

  for them to do that just because you know in hindsight of course the the Wall [TS]

  Street Journal headline is is bad for them but I also just think I don't know [TS]

  I don't think that they needed to do it like what's the benefit of doing it [TS]

  versus versus not saying anything you know what ended up happening is that you [TS]

  know same sort of I think everyone would agree shot themselves in the foot with [TS]

  that with that kind of weird presentation and so if Apple had said [TS]

  noting it would be you know the same outcome I think I know I just don't see [TS]

  what what the major benefit was of of shelter trying to talk to these guys I [TS]

  called it an unforced error because schiller had one technical Aaron and his [TS]

  writers interview where he based on rumors said that god she was gonna [TS]

  launched with a year old operating system which I write meant for Android [TS]

  4.1 right which shipped in July but it doesn't it's actually on the latest it's [TS]

  the first Android phone I can ever remember that other than a nexus that [TS]

  shit that shipped with the law currently latest version of [TS]

  Android which is four point to which is from November yeah I just assume that [TS]

  everyone thought they were there wouldn't be possible given their they [TS]

  have to redesign or whatever [TS]

  TouchWiz they're they're awful interface on top of it I don't think they call it [TS]

  that they didn't mention it I watched the whole presentation and i dont i dont [TS]

  remember that the word TouchWiz even showed up I think that they're just [TS]

  calling it got you know galaxy [TS]

  well that's that's smart that's what they should do if they want to break [TS]

  away you know it seems like all indications are they are sort of [TS]

  creating their own brand around these galaxy phones not mentioning Android [TS]

  mentioning it as little as possible and touch with you just so it's good to do [TS]

  Galaxy think but yeah I'm kind of coming around TI mine I thought that was the [TS]

  only error the children made his shoulder said that now you can pick on [TS]

  something that he said and say no that's not even true and and it was risky I [TS]

  think he obviously didn't know I thought maybe he had some intel on it and knew [TS]

  and and attributed it to rumors that he is gonna be your own operating system [TS]

  but that the only way he would have said it publicly as if he somehow knew like a [TS]

  source at a carrier like that but you know and that's not even true but maybe [TS]

  why do you think he did it why do you think that that he's going forward see [TS]

  going forward by saying anything it just doesn't seem like the the the Apple we [TS]

  all know well usually what they do is if they want to take a little air out of [TS]

  and certainly not unique to Apple but you know everybody kind of places game [TS]

  that if one of your opponents competitors it's a is gonna is on the [TS]

  cusp of the big announcement do something right before it take a little [TS]

  air out distract a little bit from it so Apple with Apple would usually do is can [TS]

  off the top of my head and think of it but announced some sort of minor update [TS]

  you know you know like 10.83 but something for the iPhone I don't know [TS]

  minor update to something speed bumps to the MacBook Airs I don't know have [TS]

  something to announce the day after the day before just to get take some of the [TS]

  top spots at Tech Neiman and the equivalent right but not say anything [TS]

  just announced a product and let you think well maybe it's a coincidence [TS]

  could be you know and I get I don't know maybe it's that they had nothing to [TS]

  release and still wanted to somehow insert themselves into the news this [TS]

  week [TS]

  yeah that I mean that strikes me as as the right as the right thought if there [TS]

  is anything if there is any strategic thinking here it it probably is the fact [TS]

  that they they do usually do some sort of incremental update stuff right before [TS]

  and they may just not everything because we're in this this very extended weird [TS]

  law of of know of no real product updates because that's so many at the [TS]

  end of last year and the other thing and it's loose it's not I can't I can't make [TS]

  it completely logical cohesive argument for it but I think it's loosely related [TS]

  to the stuff that I've been writing about lately about just the plain [TS]

  bullshit that a lot of the business press has been writing you know like [TS]

  this that the Reuters interview in the second paragraph 40 wrote a whole piece [TS]

  last night about this this paragraph which is the second paragraph in his [TS]

  story which is pretty important marketing Chiefs rare attack on arrival [TS]

  on the eve of the galaxy s4 is global premiere in New York underscores the [TS]

  extent of the pressure piled upon a company that once stood the undisputed [TS]

  leader of the smart phone or smartphone arena comma so far so good right there [TS]

  is more pressure on Apple Cazares longer undisputed and then the rest of the [TS]

  cause the rest of the sentences but ceded its crown to Samsung in 2012 and [TS]

  that's just again this is a news this is what you know it boggles my mind because [TS]

  I mean I honestly could maybe to skip the whole article I wrote and just point [TS]

  out that Apple had seventy percent of the profit and the industry last year [TS]

  and Samsung you know had 32 of it you know so they're both doing really well [TS]

  it's an amazing statistic that two companies have the entirety of the [TS]

  profits of the industry [TS]

  and that all the other companies combined are losing money maker Samsung [TS]

  and Apple share out over a hundred that's pretty amazing I think that it's [TS]

  sort of if I had to guess why these stories keep happening I think you're I [TS]

  think you're exactly right and I said this in a in a much more subtle way I'm [TS]

  even tweeted about a few months ago where it's just at the tech press is [TS]

  more or less bored because they've written the same thing that Apple is [TS]

  winning Apple you know like like oh my god how much money as well making all [TS]

  that over and over again and so the only reason you know it's almost like [TS]

  blogging journalism 101 you you build something up to knock it down later and [TS]

  there's no way to really knock Apple down other than to say the market share [TS]

  thing right i mean there's and it's like it is sort of a silly metric when you [TS]

  think about it as compared to the profit thing because what matters at the end of [TS]

  the day in how healthy accompanied is does is not the market share even though [TS]

  it seems like it should be correlated to the to the actual profit into the [TS]

  revenue it's actually not and so it doesn't make a lot of sense and so some [TS]

  of these guys maybe thinking still along the lines of you know the Wintel days [TS]

  and so eventually Samsung with this huge market share will just turn a few screws [TS]

  and really kinda Dr apple into the ground and then the Prophet you know [TS]

  we'll just have a parade overnight because because of that and I think [TS]

  that's ridiculous [TS]

  the only way you could argue that that wasn't ridiculous as if somehow the [TS]

  carrier subsidy model changes in the United States or if worldwide that [TS]

  market become so much more important and if Apple doesn't do anything to kind of [TS]

  come out to more strongly meet some of the the Android competition in places [TS]

  like India and China I think that's the only way you could make the argument [TS]

  that the market share stuff does matter but it doesn't seem like any of that [TS]

  stuff is changing now and one of the points I have made in the past is that [TS]

  you can keep to gain market share and and maybe cheating isn't quite the right [TS]

  word but you get what you can do is do unsustainable take unsustainable actions [TS]

  like charge for a thing below cost [TS]

  you know and eventually though you've got to figure out a way to to turn to [TS]

  make money on it you know famously likened the console business of video [TS]

  games like everybody knew that when the new Xbox 360 came out and Microsoft is [TS]

  losing money on each unit sold right and there was a way of gaining market share [TS]

  but you there's really no way to cydia cheap to gain profits right so somebody [TS]

  could sell phones it costs and gain market share but they can't self there's [TS]

  no way to cheat game profit share profit shares them more accurate measure [TS]

  especially over a long period of time right so I just sent you a link from [TS]

  Benedict [TS]

  you know Twitter DMS just so great how how wonderfully fast it is it's it's a [TS]

  chart from Benedict Evans are a couple of charge but it's the bottom line that [TS]

  to me is more interesting where he compares two units sold revenue and [TS]

  operating profits of three entities Apple Samsung and all others in this is [TS]

  the global handset market share and I'll put it in the shellings cause I think [TS]

  that this chart says a lot and what you see is in terms of units other has like [TS]

  60 percent right Apple has only ten percent real small and Samsung has [TS]

  somewhere around twenty to thirty percent then in revenue other only has [TS]

  about 30 and Samsung has about 30 and Apple has about 40 but it's close to a [TS]

  sort of three way tie in revenue but then you look at profits and it's the [TS]

  complete inverse of the first one it's it's really kind of symmetric where [TS]

  other has almost nothing [TS]

  son has about 30 and Apple has like 70 and I feel like so one of the things [TS]

  there is I feel like lazy thinkers who really do think that market share [TS]

  equates to profit share and revenue share they understand Samsung because [TS]

  Samsung is right around 30 each way they saw about 30 percent of the phones make [TS]

  about thirty percent of the revenue and make about thirty percent of the profit [TS]

  in the industry and that everybody thinks without a normal business and [TS]

  then there's apple juice all over the you know who the complete Denver's they [TS]

  only sell 10% of the phones but they get about thirty forty percent of the [TS]

  revenue but they make seventy percent of the profit and it just doesn't it just [TS]

  doesn't register in people's minds as possible and so they think it's [TS]

  unsustainable and you know you know the the other side of this that people have [TS]

  been railing on for a few years now is that win someone else [TS]

  dominates the market share and in this case now Samsung and Android overall [TS]

  that developers will just flock to them and that's not sustainable for Apple [TS]

  because people will just go for you know that the huge quantity of numbers [TS]

  developers will go for where the market is and the problem there as you know as [TS]

  well as I do is that while yes there is some legitimacy to that argument you're [TS]

  already seeing you know you see more developers go more quickly to injury [TS]

  they're still doing primarily I was first mailbox being a great example of [TS]

  that because if you do want to do something that's an actual business and [TS]

  you're making money off of it you know whether or not necessarily a [TS]

  venture-backed business even but if you're trying to do just a small shop in [TS]

  your making your own your own apps that you intend to sell it still you know so [TS]

  much better to do that within the iOS ecosystem that it is within Android and [TS]

  so that plays against the market share argument as well [TS]

  totally and another affiliate to so many facets here but it's not that hard to [TS]

  understand it and other one is the idea if you value market share above all else [TS]

  then you're assuming that one user is as good as another or almost that they're [TS]

  roughly equivalent and they're not it's really nice especially in the phone [TS]

  market it really is not true and that's why and I again I wrote this on a branch [TS]

  a while back but people don't want to say it because by saying that somebody's [TS]

  a better customer then another right they feel like they're coming [TS]

  dangerously close to saying they're better person than another [TS]

  that's not what I mean at all like a person an individual who just goes into [TS]

  a Verizon store and says just wanna do I want a new phone and gets talked into an [TS]

  Android in a droid whatever and just uses it to make phone calls and answer [TS]

  texts which is which by the way it's up to you because this is exactly the story [TS]

  of my father when I went to go visit him over Thanksgiving holidays there in [TS]

  florida my parents he he pulls up the phone and I'm like oh you finally got a [TS]

  new phone or whatever for all these years he has this Android phone I forget [TS]

  what it was I tweeted about it because it was the funniest thing he just says [TS]

  like I hate this fucking piece of shit is he just says always like all I wanna [TS]

  do is make a phone call on this so they gave me this phone because I picked this [TS]

  phone because it was the free one that Verizon was pushing it me you know and [TS]

  he happen to know of course he follows me is like I knew that in an iPhone was [TS]

  on the verge of being launched you know when he's so we got it in in september [TS]

  or something like that so I knew the new iPhones I didn't want to get that one [TS]

  even though you know I probably happy would have gotten oh what a big fan you [TS]

  are of it but this was just the free one inside said yes sure why not and so they [TS]

  give this means like got it's got all this crap on it I don't know their stuff [TS]

  that's preloaded all I wanna do is make a phone call and they make it so hard to [TS]

  do that so my dad is a perfect example of that [TS]

  absolutely i mean that's canonical and now he's probably not using it to browse [TS]

  the web no serious he's not installing apps on it and so yes it counts towards [TS]

  Android market share but it also counts [TS]

  away from these bizarre seemingly bizarre statistics that show that iPhone [TS]

  users by way more apps download way more free apps browse the web more all of [TS]

  these usage statistics that show that iPhone users use their phones more than [TS]

  Android makes them it's because they're better customers they're people who knew [TS]

  what they wanted and the people who knew what they wanted to make a choice are [TS]

  more likely to choose an iPhone and they're better customers insofar as [TS]

  they're more willing to spend money because they had to spend money or or I [TS]

  get you can get a free iPhone now but I run users disproportionately by the [TS]

  highest end model the best selling iPhone isn't the free one it's the [TS]

  iPhone 5 and it last year the best selling iPhone was the 40 S [TS]

  the top selling one which is more expensive sells more units than the $99 [TS]

  1 from a year ago in the free one from two years ago and the $99 1 sells more [TS]

  units than any other phone made by anyone else right right it's the top two [TS]

  are always its iPhone 5 in an iphone4s and then it's wanted I think the Galaxy [TS]

  III s3 I think was the latest stats and what the top actual smartphones worry me [TS]

  and then I don't know I don't want to say that I we should look it up in may [TS]

  have been that the iPhone was a top three top-selling ones maybe not but it [TS]

  was closed and I think that all three are in the top five at least in the [TS]

  united states right again [TS]

  worldwide it only accounts to apples for all iPhones only account for 10% of all [TS]

  phones that just shows though how long the tail is of how many phones are out [TS]

  there right that there's so many gazillion phones on the market that you [TS]

  know that have you know 2002 attended the market and so Google accounts the [TS]

  ones that access to Google Play Store right in their statistics for the [TS]

  breakdown of the OS stuff but there's that I think those other guys count all [TS]

  different kinds of things to people who do the surveys and stuff like that and [TS]

  someone had the great the great way of putting an extra kid who this was but [TS]

  basically it's almost like some of those Android phones out there are are the [TS]

  equivalent of dark matter where they're out there and you know they're out there [TS]

  and they're small little signals that indicate you can infer that the [TS]

  out there but there's no real drag signals caused the people aren't using [TS]

  them in a way that you can measure directly I totally agree and I think you [TS]

  know a big example of that is a lot of the ones in China which are you know [TS]

  none of them I think I don't think very few of them are hooked up with the [TS]

  regular Google Play Gmail Google Maps set of apps that Google wants Android [TS]

  phones to be using their all set up with the Chinese equivalents by do you know [TS]

  whatever map service they have over there so how long do you think until [TS]

  Samsung moves away from the that that stack the Google stack you know we [TS]

  already got the news yesterday I think one of the same one of the now three [TS]

  Sampson CEO's gave a interview with someone saying that their their first [TS]

  tyson that a pronounced it ties in phone is coming later this year right so [TS]

  that's their own operating system at the co-developed with Intel and some others [TS]

  how long do you think Samsung remains loyal to Google's actual stack I think [TS]

  not much longer although I would say I honestly I know that they're talking [TS]

  about tyson but and this is to me is just going on a complete hunch but [TS]

  whenever I hear about a new OS from a company that's never shipped a computer [TS]

  operating system before I automatically assume it is never gonna get the hit the [TS]

  light of day because it's just so hard and there's so few companies who have [TS]

  ever successfully launched an operating system i mean I would right now there's [TS]

  only three I think that are in business there's apple there's microsoft and now [TS]

  Google and to their credit you know Android was new and you know they did [TS]

  they did something very very difficult but they pulled it off it took awhile [TS]

  for them to do it right and we're pretty bad I presume that ties in his never [TS]

  really gonna hit and even if they launched a phone that it's not going to [TS]

  take off I think what's more likely is that they pull on Amazon and fork [TS]

  Android I totally agree and the reason for that and do their own store ship [TS]

  with the [TS]

  own Samsung bargouti they probably thought the Galaxy store and you know [TS]

  have developers to submit their Android apps to the Galaxy store do their own [TS]

  books and music and stuff like that but the reason I think that's more likely [TS]

  than tyson taking off is that I think will be so much easier to get developers [TS]

  on board because just like with Amazon you don't have to recompile your app I [TS]

  am I saying there's no technical differences and that is not a pain in [TS]

  the ass to be an Android developer and have to deal with certain differences [TS]

  between developing for the Kindle Fire age the and you know I don't have the [TS]

  Nexus 7 or something like that and going through there might be some sure there's [TS]

  some technical differences but for the most part though you write your apt one [TS]

  of the Android API you say bro go to API level 15 you know it's equates to jelly [TS]

  bean or something like that and it should work on any of these Android [TS]

  platforms but I think that's more likely than than tyson taking off because [TS]

  presumably with Tyson they would either have to have it on new API get [TS]

  developers to totally rewrite their apps or do something like have an Android [TS]

  emulation layer at which point you're already gonna have that you have a [TS]

  massive performance problem on mobile and why not just stick with Android at [TS]

  that point yet and I i think you're exactly right there because I also think [TS]

  like the only way that that works at tyson will work would be if samsung said [TS]

  look we're only doing ties and we're gonna we're gonna cut off Android I'm [TS]

  gonna cut off Windows Mobile because then then we go back to the market sure [TS]

  thing where it's like the scale of Samsung would still make it interesting [TS]

  to some developers but if they're going to keep doing Android and that's the [TS]

  majority of their scale why would any developer can to waste their resources [TS]

  their limited resources that they already have chosen so that probably [TS]

  tyson's twofold actually one is actually shipping it getting it to the point [TS]

  where it gets complete enough to say this is a disc is a reasonable modern [TS]

  mobile OS with an API for developers and everything else you need [TS]

  a I doubt that they can even pull that off I really do but be even if they do [TS]

  how do you get developers to write for it and there's the problem that [TS]

  Blackberry faces right now because the new BlackBerry 10 is real they shipped a [TS]

  real modern operating system you know that if they had shipped this exact same [TS]

  thing for five years ago might have set the industry on fire but nobody's [TS]

  writing apps for it and so they're stuck with this you know stupid idea of [TS]

  running Android app simulation or something like that which nobody wants [TS]

  to do and it's we see it with Windows Microsoft has been offering to pay [TS]

  everyone every developer I talked to these days says you know offering to pay [TS]

  you know ten grand or whatever happens just not it's not that interesting to [TS]

  them because there's a number of reasons first of all it's like yeah week we [TS]

  could do it or we could have Microsoft do it but then we still have to support [TS]

  that app going forward and it's like we just don't have the resources to do it [TS]

  and the scale this is an interesting enough and so even with all of [TS]

  Microsoft's resources in their cash being offered to developers people still [TS]

  aren't doing it you know and so imagine if you know I don't know it just you [TS]

  know it's like so the s4 launches last night and whatever you want to say about [TS]

  it it's at least at the very least its better version of the s3 s3 is a [TS]

  well-respected phone and it runs on the Android apps you know and it's because [TS]

  it's so popular it's not gonna be overlooked by most app-developers [TS]

  they're going to make sure that their app works on as three they're gonna make [TS]

  sure it works on the ice for ya so whatever the fragmentation problems on [TS]

  Android buying a galaxy s4 you're probably gonna see the least of the [TS]

  fragmentation problems as a user admin six months from now they launched the [TS]

  Galaxy blah blah blah another galaxy tyson the galaxy ti don't call it [TS]

  something like that and it runs tyson I mean it runs no haps I mean I don't get [TS]

  it right or they if they can maybe get a couple of developers on board I I don't [TS]

  know but I don't even see them doing that i mean one of these weird things to [TS]

  me about last night should just call it a shitshow was that they had no [TS]

  third-party developers no mention of any third party software what's up [TS]

  yeah so to other wild cards in there cos I do think you're right that that if [TS]

  they do something and if they do something in the plan to be successful [TS]

  it is forking Android because the two wild cards in our what Google is doing [TS]

  with Motorola rights of rumors of that X phone or whatever it is and then what [TS]

  Amazon is doing in the phone space so they already have Corsicana tablets and [TS]

  those have been successful to some degree at least and now what they're [TS]

  gonna do with the phone which again is just rumor but it seems like that's [TS]

  pretty likely that they're going to do that and soda Samsung sit back and wait [TS]

  for those two things to happen before they fork Android and do their own thing [TS]

  or do they preempted that's kind of the big question in my mind I don't know I'm [TS]

  not quite sure what their it's hard to tell because it's all about being a mean [TS]

  if Google really does make their own flagship phone that's beyond Nexus you [TS]

  know because it's a company that they actually own a Motorola phone and they [TS]

  just tend to put their their marketing muscle these are pushing it on [TS]

  google.com and and they start to have more strained relationships with Samsung [TS]

  Samsung does not want to be in that position obviously one of the most [TS]

  interesting charts that you that you put up in your last post last night and [TS]

  someone else tweeted about I saw this the notion that Samsung is making more [TS]

  profit off of their smartphones that Google is making as an entire company [TS]

  which which is just fascinating because all of that profit you have to assume [TS]

  for Samsung is from Android I mean they're probably making a little bit off [TS]

  of some of the other things because of Samsung's business or mobile business at [TS]

  least of selling anything you know everything from cheap candy bar phones [TS]

  to truly high end i mean some of the galaxy s4 models have a core processors [TS]

  and without another weird thing about the galaxy s4 just as an aside there is [TS]

  no single galaxy s4 at least in a way and I know there's a couple of different [TS]

  iPhone SK use around the world for different antenna bands but like the [TS]

  system on a chip is the same you get the same performance whereas depending on [TS]

  what country you're in you get a row [TS]

  Ackley different system on a chip with the Galaxy phones like an apparently the [TS]

  us- isn't getting the eight-core one that all the spektr nerds are slobbering [TS]

  over there yet why you ask is gonna do now as I don't know why I did this makes [TS]

  no sense to me I don't know but anyway what you think about that from from [TS]

  Google different second that he has a company if there are public company they [TS]

  need to keep growing the bottom line just like us just like every public [TS]

  company does they have a company out there that is showing them exactly how [TS]

  to do that because they're making more money off of a product that Google [TS]

  created that Google is making is an entire company itself so at some point [TS]

  you have to think that it's their fiduciary duty to cut that off and start [TS]

  taking those that profit and those revenues themselves right right and it [TS]

  hasn't seemingly hasn't worked out like the PC industry did where Intel and HP [TS]

  and back in the day [TS]

  compaq that the people who made the PC hardware that ran Windows made a lot of [TS]

  money you know Intel particularly but you know Dell and HP and Compaq all had [TS]

  really good year is making a lot of money selling PCs and microsoft made [TS]

  more than any of them by providing the operating system and software and Google [TS]

  obviously wasn't gonna make it the same way by selling the software but they I [TS]

  think that they assumed that by giving away the software but having it with all [TS]

  these Google services that they would profit as handsomely by through all the [TS]

  ads that they could show and you know in a search results and etcetera and it [TS]

  does it does seem like they're doing better I don't know what the numbers are [TS]

  off the top of my head but it does seem like they are monetizing increasingly [TS]

  better on mobile as you might expect certainly with the scale again and you [TS]

  know just getting better ads in and getting better about figuring out how to [TS]

  do this mobile but it's nowhere near the profit that Samsung is seen by selling [TS]

  devices [TS]

  now definitely that's did not even close I think began as a little hard with [TS]

  Samsung because Samsung doesn't reveal their handset sales numbers at all [TS]

  famously stopped a while back so they don't say how many galaxy phones have [TS]

  been sold then so whenever you do see a comparison of and I think it's important [TS]

  thing that's always overlooked is when you see a comparison between how many [TS]

  iPhone 5's were sold last quarter and how many galaxies fours were sold in the [TS]

  same quarter that number for the iPhones comes from Apple in an SEC filing that [TS]

  is like they're legally mandated to to tell the truth [TS]

  well I guess Apple Apple doesn't break down by the agency I phones over alright [TS]

  but at least it's there's a legal number it whereas what Samsung does is nothing [TS]

  it's all based on analyst conjecture or an analyst says there was this many you [TS]

  can kind of back it out with the OP without below by based on average they [TS]

  do reveal the average selling price and so you can kind of a reasonable informed [TS]

  guess where is the endless numbers really seem like they're just pulled out [TS]

  of the air for Samsung but what they do give is a number for their entire mobile [TS]

  and telecom division now that there's they sell some other stuff from that [TS]

  division other than mobile phones but I can't believe that it's that much to to [TS]

  make that big of a den and that that division makes more make more profit [TS]

  last quarter than all of Google [TS]

  that that is that is crazy an untenable I think for the Google Samsung [TS]

  relationships so I want to do it another sponsor break but let's parlay after the [TS]

  break let's go and talk about what that means with Andy Rubin is that so I was [TS]

  second sponsor I wanna thank you I want to thank Pixelmator whereas as we call [TS]

  it here [TS]

  Pixelmator and what they want me to tell you about is their new version [TS]

  Pixelmator 2.2 blueberry not out yet [TS]

  coming out at the end of March a kind of can't believe they're calling it to [TS]

  point to this really seems like a three point out is what they've done is [TS]

  they've added a ton of new factor shape features and have sort of it's really [TS]

  sort of adding almost like an actor / illustrator type aspect to the app going [TS]

  way beyond just pixel image editing really great state of the art shape [TS]

  tools that let you create gorgeous compositions you can use it for things [TS]

  like logos posters web layouts easy to use drawing tools anybody's familiar [TS]

  with vector-based drawing tools from other apps is gonna find a lot of stuff [TS]

  in there that's exactly the same all sorts of shapes rectangles ellipses [TS]

  rounded rectangles polygons lines all these things are vector not pixel you've [TS]

  got filled stroke shadow mode shape settings you can assign shapes styles [TS]

  create a style for a shape save it as a saved almost like a stylesheet then [TS]

  create a new shape and then instantly apply the style that you painstakingly [TS]

  made for the first one smart shapes have easy to use controls that let you [TS]

  quickly adjust the shapes a line to get just the look they are after custom [TS]

  shapes I mean it's these things look like hand-drawn icons but they're vector [TS]

  so they scale [TS]

  the other thing is shaped sharing so when you create a new custom shape you [TS]

  can export it dragged him out to the desktop send it to your friend your [TS]

  friend dragged it into their shapes palette and they've got the shape that [TS]

  you made over on your machine it's a really great feature I really like I [TS]

  said I cannot believe that they're calling it a 2.2 instead of a 3.0 with [TS]

  all of this stuff they've also added a whole bunch of other improvements [TS]

  they've improved their type tool they've improved their gradient presets all [TS]

  sorts of performance upgrade so go check it out at Pixelmator dot com VIX yell [TS]

  and the ATO are dot com and get get Pixelmator big fan of Pixelmator [TS]

  or whatever you wanna kick some later don't don't let me throw you off its [TS]

  really Pixelmator yeah but that's now it's it's I mean how can I not stick [TS]

  with the running yeah it is it's a phenomenal and so any room [TS]

  Andy Rubin so what is it a bombshell I think it's a bombshell yeah although I'm [TS]

  not is just into Google as so my understanding is that have talked to a [TS]

  few people about this now this was a complete surprise [TS]

  pretty much across the company I think of few people probably knew about it you [TS]

  know in the days leading up to it but certainly not the weeks and they just [TS]

  look at his schedule he was scheduled to talk at like the deal eleven conference [TS]

  and all these other places you know the far in the future [TS]

  obviously as a on behalf of Android and now he's no longer going to be speaking [TS]

  on behalf of Android is no longer doing that so he's taken off the D 11 [TS]

  conference I don't know why I actually don't know what's going on with that I [TS]

  don't know if they would put maybe they put in Sundargarh who took over for him [TS]

  to see ya but yes the understanding is that this was a huge shock within the [TS]

  company as well I always thought that [TS]

  within Google and I you know it's curious that they had these to host PC [TS]

  operating systems [TS]

  Android and Chrome OS and I always thought it was sort of I think you're [TS]

  gonna love this you're gonna love this its sorta like the scene in the Batman [TS]

  movie with the Joker the Joker goes into the black guys gang pretending to be [TS]

  dead [TS]

  pops out of the bag fills the leader and there's two guys left knapsack you'll [TS]

  stick you stick in half and says we've got room for one more guy in our gang [TS]

  steps right I've always thought that was chrome vs Android [TS]

  they've got room for one post PC operating system you two guys fight it [TS]

  out and now so you know it [TS]

  following that along it looks like in some way one at least their their leader [TS]

  one because now he's in charge of both right and that's that gets the [TS]

  surprising thing to me is that it seems to me like Android is the one that is [TS]

  doing better but maybe that's because I've been blinded by your market share [TS]

  right cause there's a hundred things out there and I'm nowhere near as many [TS]

  Chrome OS devices right yeah I don't know I think that I do I mean I think [TS]

  there's no question that he is doing significantly better than Chrome OS I it [TS]

  is curious as to why they would do that you know part of it is maybe the fact [TS]

  that sundar Pichai who's going to be the new head of both units is very [TS]

  well-regarded within Google like everyone I've talked to loves him I've [TS]

  met him a few times he's a really really nice guy really level-headed we got into [TS]

  it you know I used to get into it with him over bundling flash and chrome you [TS]

  know how many they automatically they make you download it in the end and [TS]

  automatically enable it and you know he's just like he he would give his [TS]

  viewpoint i'd give mine we disagree but he was open-minded and very thoughtful [TS]

  about the way that he would think about all the stuff and the fact that he would [TS]

  come into Lake have these conversations you know just with just was some random [TS]

  blogger at the Times is kinda talked about some of these these bigger ideas [TS]

  so I think part of it is that he's very well-regarded and also [TS]

  over there were the stories I guess it was last year maybe even almost two [TS]

  years ago now where he was sort of one of the guys who is being hotly recruited [TS]

  by almost every startup you think you know the reports are that sweater was [TS]

  trying to hire him and I think was actually carrington who who broke the [TS]

  news that in order to keep Sunday around they gave him something like 50 75 [TS]

  million dollars worth of you know restricted stock or something like that [TS]

  and so you know there I think that he's clearly someone that Google really [TS]

  wanted to keep around and really wanted to make happy and again as we're really [TS]

  highly regarded and while this may not be setting the world on fire or chrome [TS]

  certainly has its large browser in the world now it is pretty remarkable and so [TS]

  you know why not just put a fresh set of eyes on it that's Kennedy only thing I [TS]

  can I can imagine is going on I doubt that Andy Rubin was was pushed out in [TS]

  the kind of in a bad way I mean he is alway yeah because he is staying with [TS]

  the company its not announced what he's doing yet but it seems like he's going [TS]

  to stay there and you know there may have been some some sort of you know [TS]

  let's just get a fresh set of eyes on this thing you've been doing it for a [TS]

  long time either somebody's gonna find out if there is a leak and we'll find [TS]

  out sooner or we'll have to wait and see what Andy Rubin does cause I know one [TS]

  and yeah it could be that he wasn't quite pushed and maybe he was bored and [TS]

  maybe he really does have a new idea for a new thing he really wants to start [TS]

  from scratch in Google acts you know incubator so maybe he really you know [TS]

  this is all reading too much into it and Andy Rubin really just said I'm kinda [TS]

  done with this is feeling like a chore I want to go do something new right and [TS]

  Larry page's I that's great have at it you know and and son are you take over [TS]

  you know we totally trust you [TS]

  on the other hand know if he was kind of pushed then maybe going to Google acts [TS]

  is the Google equivalent of serving as an adviser to write like I mean I don't [TS]

  even know like forestall technically might still be I don't know how long [TS]

  that lasts like I never quite noticed when you know that's what they did to [TS]

  Tony Fadell right now like to see actually there right and they never [TS]

  really it's like a gradient right they don't put out a press release saying [TS]

  Tony Fadell has has stopped being a special adviser to Steve Jobs now right [TS]

  and and then you know all of a sudden two years later nasa comes out as I can [TS]

  tell when did he stop being so like I'm pretty sure though that Scott Forstall [TS]

  still technically a full-time employees and its special adviser to Tim Cook who [TS]

  you know right it's a maybe that's the equipment I don't know we'll see you [TS]

  know let's see if if Andy Rubin estella Google year from now I really I have no [TS]

  clue my guess is that I think that he is going to do something else with just a [TS]

  pure guess my other my other thought which again is is based on nothing is [TS]

  that I could see that this played out in a way where you know Larry Page has has [TS]

  taken over control of the company for however long it's been now it's been two [TS]

  years been a year in something and so his thing was all about kind of [TS]

  streamlining the processes getting everyone on the same page and you know [TS]

  cutting off some of some of the bureaucracy and so a lot of indications [TS]

  about Andy Rubin were that while people who are under him loved working for him [TS]

  and you know he was obviously a brilliant guy and did a great job with [TS]

  Android he wasn't the easiest person to get along with in there are a lot of [TS]

  politics involved within the Android system just look how long it took to get [TS]

  chrome on Android like why was there a different browser for all that time now [TS]

  you probably even know this better if you in fact I know that you know about [TS]

  do but even I know that that was a political thing within the Caroni right [TS]

  there was possibly between Andy and and son sardaar could have been but there's [TS]

  definitely that they had the chrome guys have chrome version of Chrome that ran [TS]

  on Android better than the Android just blandly named browser [TS]

  long before they put it into Android like really did seem a little and I [TS]

  think that I think that chrome and regime is still separate from the end [TS]

  redeem itself and that will obviously change under under center but so so [TS]

  anyway I think that I do think that I could see how that is is the situation [TS]

  that went down it was just you know everything's going great but things are [TS]

  still a little bit too political [TS]

  we really do we have this rocket ship we don't want to slow it down at all you [TS]

  know if you're if you're open to it you know you can we'd love to have you to [TS]

  something else then Google and love to have you stick around but maybe we can [TS]

  you know just really see where we can take this now with the foundation that [TS]

  you've built for it and you know another part is I put this up when when you when [TS]

  you mention we're going to be talking about then you really think it's like so [TS]

  I would imagine that he's probably not be in the best person to work with from [TS]

  a negotiating standpoint with the carriers just look at the fact that [TS]

  remember it was in May 2011 at IO and we're coming up on the next Google i/o [TS]

  now it was May 2011 so two years ago had Google announced their their Android app [TS]

  initiative where they were going to have all of the Android partners were going [TS]

  to commit to getting the newest version of Android on the Android devices within [TS]

  18 months this is the promises were set on stage Indira announced this was a big [TS]

  deal that we haven't heard a word about it since I know it's really called them [TS]

  out for it which is sure to haven't heard a word out to end clearly has not [TS]

  come true and clearly has not come true right and so make you know that's [TS]

  another part of it may be that Google realizes that coming up now that they [TS]

  have [TS]

  under their wing if they're going to if they're going to keep operating within [TS]

  with these carriers in with worldwide carriers they really need a force that's [TS]

  not so abrasive towards working with these guys that could be and you know i [TS]

  i if this is all true it is perhaps oddly parallel to the forestall [TS]

  situation that Apple [TS]

  internal politics [TS]

  sort of hard to get a lot of great leader and and clearly successful over [TS]

  the last few years but hard to get along with Jeff and like you know just silos [TS]

  his team into like you know fiefdom of sorts and replaced by somebody who is [TS]

  you know seemingly better to get along with at least at Apple Federici is one [TS]

  thing is replaced him on a technical side I Jony ive don't know I've never [TS]

  heard anything about what it's like to get along with him although he doesn't [TS]

  really seem confrontational right I think he clearly has very high standards [TS]

  but it doesn't do you know I've never heard anybody call him an asshole right [TS]

  about that I think taking over is that he really doesn't like to be on stage [TS]

  right so he never has that he does the video stuff that he does not be as agent [TS]

  for snow was always on stage right but yes so going back to remain again that's [TS]

  all pure speculation but I wouldn't be shocked if it was something along those [TS]

  lines because it's a psych you think about what kind of logically what the [TS]

  most obvious answer is something like that you know there could have been some [TS]

  bombshell maybe something happened maybe some partner deal got badly screwed up [TS]

  that will hear about or something well do you think it you think the timing on [TS]

  that announcement is a little weird with regard to it coming on the eve of the [TS]

  galaxy s4 yeah that's sort of is that sort of the Google equivalent of the [TS]

  Phil Schiller interviews of let's take some piss out of Samsung's think it's [TS]

  interesting I hadn't really thought about that yeah the timing is strange [TS]

  just because it seems like there's nothing there's no other reason to [TS]

  announce it then and for that change to happen then right other then [TS]

  then this is the only Android related thing that that's coming up right right [TS]

  work well and it's possible yeah you know and it kind of got looped into we [TS]

  can come back to this later you have a little time but there are a whole bunch [TS]

  of Google were making some changes this week announcements [TS]

  you know stuff with their calendar API that all everybody listen to show that [TS]

  is that they've their their shit Canon Google Reader come July but they mix [TS]

  today they they the official Google Blog had this post with a here's the eight [TS]

  changes were making and they just like three through some of these things in [TS]

  the middle it's like calendar API owned by the way Andy Rubin is no longer there [TS]

  have been a great bullet point number for our search results [TS]

  percent faster oh by the way Google readers can be dead in july but I can't [TS]

  help but think that I don't know it and it I do think it comes down to like that [TS]

  observation that you know that Samsung's be making more from Android and there is [TS]

  the Wall Street Journal story that is a major concern that maybe Samsung is you [TS]

  surfing Android from Google that might be a problem that that as popular as [TS]

  Android is it may not be as it's evolving as aligned with Google's [TS]

  interests as chrome in Chrome OS are right or maybe any room and is going to [TS]

  become the fourth CEO Samsung [TS]

  so what about the galaxy s4 event did you watch it [TS]

  no I didn't watch it I was following along with it sweet sorry I didn't watch [TS]

  the live stream of it though so I didn't actually get to experience firsthand [TS]

  what a fiasco was but I read a lot of the coverage of it to talk about how do [TS]

  is sort of sexist in a way misogynist and and not just in a lot of ways but [TS]

  well one thing good thing I can say about it is that it was an hour long so [TS]

  short [TS]

  yeah it's really bizarre a mean it I I saw a couple people into enormous say [TS]

  the same thing that it's you know that it that bizarre Qualcomm CES came out [TS]

  how to add a short life as the winner to tack keynote [TS]

  drug dealers or something I didn't see the CSR at the Samsung the Samsung know [TS]

  then see jugglers they might I started my I started getting kinky but it was on [TS]

  in Radio City Music Hall had a big orchestra and a lot of Broadway style [TS]

  theatrics but then it opens with it open with a lot of specs it open with the [TS]

  president of the company coming out I forget his name but he came out and and [TS]

  just sort of introduced all the features they were going to talk about but said [TS]

  nothing about them he just sort of red like the H one level outline of the new [TS]

  features they were gonna introduce and said that you know leading innovation [TS]

  and thank you very much and got off the stage and you know and I think I don't [TS]

  know I think he wanted to come out but English is clearly a second language so [TS]

  he he wasn't going to be able to to emcee the show the ANC was some actor I [TS]

  don't know his name is something chase but he has not famous is just like a [TS]

  stage actor 15 minutes of specs him this actor talking to Samsung america's [TS]

  equivalent of Phil Schiller I guess VP of Marketing and talking about specs and [TS]

  then that's about 15 minutes so far so good not really weird is sort of the [TS]

  opposite of the way Apple does shows where Apple does shows and talks about [TS]

  features and then and we'll tell you the specs that they want to reveal like the [TS]

  specs is sort of the one sheet that they give you at the end of the show like you [TS]

  know and here's the price and here's the you know here's the carriers that we're [TS]

  gonna be on in here is the bands of you know such-and-such ever going to support [TS]

  bob they did the specs first and 15 minutes and they display said they're [TS]

  gonna switched their gonna tell us about the phone with a series of skits and it [TS]

  was just kept getting weirder and weirder than the first one is is i think [TS]

  it was the first one but it's like here's an elementary school in New York [TS]

  and they're having the school play and there's a girl on as a little girl on [TS]

  stage dancing and her dad doesn't have a galaxy s4 so the pictures he's taking [TS]

  won't be thirteen megabytes and all of a sudden the girl breaks out of character [TS]

  and comes out and addresses the MCN says what and then she turns to her dad and [TS]

  berates him for not having a 13 megapixel s4 and that what is she how is [TS]

  why is she practiced you know and it's like God right it's an awful childlike [TS]

  what kind of like it's an awful awful Braddy spoiled child and the dad is [TS]

  apologizing and he's instantly apologizes to his daughter and says I'm [TS]

  don't worry I'm gonna get an ass for tomorrow and our next show you know [TS]

  these great ask for pictures so I got it I gotta watch it now so is this like is [TS]

  this a cultural thing is assuming this poorly translated from South Korean its [TS]

  culture somebody tweeted me and said and [TS]

  and is something on Twitter who i think is Korean or south korean and said that [TS]

  it it clearly to him seems like it was written by South Koreans and just [TS]

  translated to English although I don't know is that right that in in korea you [TS]

  you father expects his 13 year old girl to berate him publicly next was long [TS]

  gone but next with this boy it's the same boy who is in there there little [TS]

  commercials and he was tap-dancing earlier in the show you step dancing on [TS]

  the thing and get back with his parents was that they're using this new picture [TS]

  in picture photo thing which seems terrible but the idea is that the major [TS]

  new feature one of the major new features are trying to advertise is that [TS]

  when you the dad are taking pictures instead of just your wife and kids in [TS]

  the picture you can get a in the corner just like it when you do a Skype chat or [TS]

  are there in the corner from the front facing camera your face shows up to you [TS]

  and you can take a picture that way so that you can be in the picture but if [TS]

  you really consider that being in the picture I mean that's I heard it was [TS]

  more I heard was more along the lines of like you're watching a sports moment and [TS]

  then you take a picture of your reaction shot along with whatever happened I [TS]

  guess that makes more sense than what they were showing yeah there was the [TS]

  school forget I started really started getting my life I we're going was the [TS]

  act and they said here's we've shown that showed something else and then the [TS]

  actors said the guy was the emcee said all right we've shown you what the [TS]

  galaxy s4 means to normal people he says let's see what it's like for someone [TS]

  who's really special [TS]

  a new york city actor and he took a role but if he had someone what kind of [TS]

  attitude just Slagter customers in the said you know moms and dads you know you [TS]

  guys are boring let's see how it affects me an awesome actor and we're supposed [TS]

  to all of a sudden descent is supposed to be his New York City apartment [TS]

  and cut out of the ground in the stage rises a red convertible sports car but I [TS]

  swear to you it's on it's side it is sideways and the actor and everybody [TS]

  looked at any point to any goes hey you know parking state New York City and [TS]

  that was the only explanation for why the Karzai's I can only assume that it [TS]

  was because whatever elevator they had on the stage wasn't wide enough for the [TS]

  car to come up right way so rather than not have the car they had the car come [TS]

  up sideways when they discussed the current half and then he had like this [TS]

  incredibly ignorant conversation with his agent and the guy also honest to god [TS]

  this is like when he was like talking about like the family using the s4 to do [TS]

  something [TS]

  DMC would literally say let's go back to our fake family and see how they use the [TS]

  new video thing in the phone or whatever just say let's go back to our fake [TS]

  family wish I went to this total of July 23 I i kind if you wish I was literally [TS]

  was there I think it was but then the one that really got the one like really [TS]

  made me almost break out just watching it at home into a flop sweat was this [TS]

  bridal party in Miami and the skit was about five or six women who've been [TS]

  longtime friends one of them is getting married this weekend and they're having [TS]

  her bridal shower and and they're talking about all the things they love [TS]

  about the galaxy s4 and the different cases that they have [TS]

  and it was so sexist it was ridiculous and these women are interested in things [TS]

  like calories and losing weight and Mary A B doctors right when they found out [TS]

  about the health features these health tracking features in the phone the one [TS]

  moment says my mother always wanted me to marry a doctor [TS]

  well this is the next best thing and then the actor breaks into an immediate [TS]

  disclaimer that he just he just cut to the actor is emceeing he goes the galaxy [TS]

  s4 is no replacement for a medical doctor and and then there's one of the [TS]

  women and and I know that Molly Wood from CNET really just ripped apart my [TS]

  link to it today and she just rip this thing apart perfectly but it she [TS]

  described the one of these women as the comically drunk cougar [TS]

  Dead Season literally no exaggeration as it is not like oh she's she exaggerated [TS]

  for the past it was a woman older you know I'd say in her mid forties or [TS]

  something like that with a drink in her hand and heard galaxy s4 any other and [TS]

  they were talking about this new feature they have this this no-touch tracking [TS]

  where you can kind right let's see how it works I mean we have no idea but [TS]

  anyway but their time I why you would want to use it and her reason was she [TS]

  didn't want to put her drink down and then they used her for this eye tracking [TS]

  feature now there's this features is supposed to be there like when you're [TS]

  reading an article if you look down the screen is gonna start scrolling [TS]

  automatically and if you're watching a movie or video and you look away from [TS]

  the screen it will instantly and then when you look back it will go and I [TS]

  swear to you I'm not making this up he called her over her character's name is [TS]

  Dee Dee Dee Dee come on over here and she's still got a drinker and so she's [TS]

  watching a movie [TS]

  and greens keeper comes out a young they said that these women role in Miami [TS]

  young latino stud comes out with a leaf blower and that's what catches her eye [TS]

  and takes her away from the movie she's watching this younger very attractive [TS]

  man and she sort of stunned and then he MCA has to remind her that she has to [TS]

  look back at the screen to pretend that the video starts playing again and she [TS]

  says oh yeah and then she does it in a guy takes his shirt off and she [TS]

  immediately looked over at him again like in all I'd well I mean you really [TS]

  have to see it to believe and I guess you know maybe the explanation I've [TS]

  heard is that that sort of thing is considered like that that's what a [TS]

  typical show TV show is like South Korea but I don't know anything so just [TS]

  compare and contrast that to you know like I think we both really like the the [TS]

  one and failing that Apple did where it was at the iPad and it's just it's Steve [TS]

  Jobs on stage with a chair its could it be any any more different than than what [TS]

  you're describing their right and they did introduce the other thing is that [TS]

  they introduced a bunch of features and I you know I'm not going to judge them [TS]

  because I haven't used them and they didn't even really show them they just [TS]

  talked about them like so with like the this eye tracking feature there didn't [TS]

  actually show it working I do I doubt that the woman's phone really was even [TS]

  on I think she was just pantomime you know there was no video that you could [TS]

  see on the screen showing it in actual use or anything like that you just had [TS]

  to pretend that these things were working ok no we just had characters [TS]

  pointing fingers at it but they gave each one of them like 30 seconds like [TS]

  they introduced like eight features and gave none of the features any breathing [TS]

  room to actually like understand how it would actually work that sounds amazing [TS]

  that's what [TS]

  to talk about the the finger tracking thing like you said a woman didn't wanna [TS]

  put down a drink like why is that a good feature for a phone when will there be [TS]

  useful I don't know it sounds to me terrible i guess im not going to [TS]

  prejudge it and say that it is terrible but it sounds terrible to me I guess one [TS]

  of the explanations that you makes the phone easier to use with gloves that you [TS]

  could point a gloved finger at it and scroll the screen but even in to brief [TS]

  them on they showed it it seemed it it seemed to work about as well as you [TS]

  think it would like it was nowhere near tracking the finger the way a finger on [TS]

  the actual glass tracks the scrolling and so I love I love the the dichotomy [TS]

  of a lot of people in the media giving Apple a hard time because they haven't [TS]

  come out with new and innovative features you know what what are deemed [TS]

  like giant tent pole features the thing and look at like a look at what the s4 [TS]

  has its its finger tracking like what what is that [TS]

  who spends time working on that and why why on earth does anyone think that [TS]

  that's going to be a really selling point of that device [TS]

  well and the one that struck me was the one of the examples they get I guess [TS]

  cold weather with gloves is one where you can't touch the one where the woman [TS]

  had a drink in her hand why not just use your thumb on your other hand except for [TS]

  the fact that because the phone is five inches be good for one-handed use right [TS]

  like i mean again I'm biased I really like the smaller size of the iPhone I've [TS]

  tried 5 inch phones really don't like them very much specifically because I do [TS]

  I use my iPhone one handle yeah but that seems to give you have a drink in one [TS]

  hand and still want to use your phone in the other that seems like you know I [TS]

  just use your thought I joked on Twitter that it's great if you're murdering [TS]

  someone in your blood all over your hands and that you get so use your phone [TS]

  to clean it up [TS]

  let me do a sponsor of quick and we'll talk about Google Reader and I'll a [TS]

  sponsor's studio need these guys behind the glass bunch of other great products [TS]

  whether newest product is an iPhone app called simple bracket I bet you've heard [TS]

  of this energy it's an iPhone app for filling in your March Madness NCAA [TS]

  college basketball braclet brackets and competing with friends and family [TS]

  super easy login how do you identify yourself your friends and families easy [TS]

  you login with your Twitter I D and it's built right into the iOS eat you don't [TS]

  even have to know your password is authorized it to use one of your Twitter [TS]

  account so you've already got set up an iOS has a beautiful you I i mean [TS]

  everybody knows I'm a huge fan of future of these guys know how to use future and [TS]

  I think they've done some really innovative thinking with the way that [TS]

  the actual brackets anybody out there who knows when talking about filling in [TS]

  the NCW brackets no one talked about there's a standard looked at them those [TS]

  of you out there who have no idea what it into double what the NCAA tournament [TS]

  is this app is probably not gonna have interest to you but if you know what the [TS]

  tournament is you've got to check it out and I think they've done something [TS]

  really clever with the way the bracket is laid out where the traditional at [TS]

  would you think that that would fit on an iPhone screen what they thought the [TS]

  same thing and they've come out with a really neat layout I think it works [TS]

  perfect for something as complicated as a 64 team elimination bracket really [TS]

  really clever user interface and layout they've got their own scoring system and [TS]

  it's you know how do you how do you judge who wins one of these bracket [TS]

  twenty minutes where they they went to a mathematician and got a new formula for [TS]

  computing the winner and it gives proper way to upset picks based on the [TS]

  probability of outcome so in other words if you pick a bunch of upsets you get [TS]

  more credit than someone who maybe had the same number of wins in the first [TS]

  round but their wins were all from favorites which to me does seem fair [TS]

  it's available now just go to the AppStore search for simple bracket [TS]

  it's one buck which is unbelievable to me as I think it's a great app and [TS]

  everybody is going to use it you know what you're gonna do you gonna [TS]

  betting pools where more than a buck or you can use this to manage your porn and [TS]

  gambling is not legal in your state now but you can use it you can set up your [TS]

  own pools with your friends and invite people in August managed through this [TS]

  app if you're going to set up a pool and everybody in pool has an iPhone I mean I [TS]

  can't imagine a better way to do it a lot of fun you can even do it for fun [TS]

  without the gambling grab the app now though cause the teams are gonna be [TS]

  announced on Sunday you gonna want to have it by then too [TS]

  to start making your pics so go to the AppStore search for simple bracket if [TS]

  you have any interest in the NCAA tournament and my thanks to studio [TS]

  yes I know Michigan where I went to school they just lost today in the Big [TS]

  Ten tournament so thrilled about that but they'll still be a relatively high [TS]

  seed in the in the NCW tournament so excited to do the same thing I do my [TS]

  favorite team the school to Drexel seldom in the tournament starts very [TS]

  exciting but my favorite big big name team is is always been North Carolina [TS]

  and so I always whenever I thought my bracket the first thing I do is just [TS]

  fill in North Carolina right through it doesn't matter whether they're having a [TS]

  good season or bad season I always film into the end and I've never once not [TS]

  done it and here's the reason why from me I'm less interested in winning the [TS]

  thing that I am in the end the agony I would cause myself if I didn't and they [TS]

  actually want yeah I would like to know how can I doubt my own favorite team so [TS]

  I always just start by just filling them in right to the end and then I go back [TS]

  and start filling in all the other yeah you do the same thing unfortunately [TS]

  Michigan has been awful for about a decade because they were on probation [TS]

  for the whole chris webber fab five types stuff including when I was at [TS]

  school so they're finally good again so I'm excited for the tournament this year [TS]

  now that they're gonna get now that they are in the tournament there there last [TS]

  year but now that I can actually sell them for the bracket you know I never [TS]

  thought about I'm not trying to rub it in but it occurred to me that probably [TS]

  the biggest moment and Michigan basketball history was against North [TS]

  Carolina yeah the false timeout right chris webber has done a lot of good for [TS]

  missing [TS]

  you know what though as even as a North Carolina man it was sort of an [TS]

  ignominious way to win like it was waiting for this firecracker to go off [TS]

  of an exciting down to the last second basketball game and the way that it [TS]

  finished was oh one of the guys in the team poured water on the fire so you win [TS]

  that's not allowed you're not allowed to put water on the fire cracker what [TS]

  happened if anybody who doesn't know and can only an abrupt but was a close game [TS]

  I think North Carolina was like up by 12 be an hour on but North Michigan could [TS]

  have won and had the ball but they had no timeouts left and one other star [TS]

  players probably the star player tried to call a timeout and in basketball if [TS]

  you don't have time out and try to call a timeout it's a technical foul the [TS]

  other team gets to shoot some free throws and they got the ball back and [TS]

  that sort of ended the game right there there was the most anti climatic ending [TS]

  ever [TS]

  alright Google Reader so I think you and I are gonna maybe disagree on yes well I [TS]

  i think that you will think that we will because I was being sort of funny [TS]

  yesterday about it but I am fairly annoyed by this just because I C you [TS]

  know I see my my traffic logs and suffered a lot of you know where the [TS]

  people are reading from its a ton of people still reading from Google Reader [TS]

  so I don't know where they are obviously a lot of people in our saying that [TS]

  they're going to step up and fill the void but it's still it's an underlying [TS]

  layer that a lot of these other services were using yeah that's what this to [TS]

  there's two aspects to Google Reader there's the Google Reader the [TS]

  traditional Google Reader interface we go to the web and you to go to read or [TS]

  die google.com you are always in and read Google Reader there and tons of [TS]

  people definitely do that because I see that from my referral logs people coming [TS]

  from Google Reader URLs all the time I know a lot of our readers do is and I [TS]

  think that they you know I don't know I don't know what is going to mean for [TS]

  Darren fireball because i think is most of my stuff mailinglist stuff they read [TS]

  in an hour [TS]

  click the headline and I never see them right they just go to our employment [TS]

  which is fine with me you know it's your attention that I want more than I don't [TS]

  want the pageviews because I don't sell ads by pages and I just glad to have you [TS]

  reading my feed and that's why sell sponsorships that go into the field they [TS]

  pay for it so it's great but what a lot of people do is when I read a full [TS]

  article like the one I wrote last night then instead of reading and reader then [TS]

  they come to my site because they want to read it on during fireball and when I [TS]

  write a full article I get you almost always the number one referral is Google [TS]

  Reader and if not it's you know it's some tea Co URL from Twitter and yet [TS]

  those are going to go away I mean so I have not used I used to be a Google [TS]

  Reader junkie like maybe I think there was a service I use the most I was like [TS]

  I was so so adamant about making sure that I read every single thing whether [TS]

  you know not necessarily reading but at least seeing and skimming every single [TS]

  thing that was in there I'd like over a hundred feeds that I was doing that for [TS]

  and i was just very diligent throughout a day that was like my go-to thing [TS]

  especially in you know in the in my prime time of of doing tech blogging [TS]

  that's like how I would stay on top of every little thing and now my life is [TS]

  different now of course but it just seems like I never use Google Reader [TS]

  anymore I would use occasionally reader the iOS app which both iPhone and iPad [TS]

  in this is great but uses Google Reader is a as as Canada under layer for it [TS]

  right that's the second using google reader is as an API and a sinking [TS]

  sinking API for client and that to me and Brent Simmons pointed out yesterday [TS]

  is at least in like referral logs is dark matter right because it doesn't [TS]

  show up right but it don't underestimate how many people are using apps for feed [TS]

  reading [TS]

  and a lot of those apps use Google Reader is their way of thinking and so [TS]

  people say a few of these guys so dig has come out [TS]

  feedly Flipboard like a number of them have come out and said that they're [TS]

  going to recreate or eight cool reader but a few of them have said that they're [TS]

  going to try and recreate the API is well it's not clear to me how they're [TS]

  doing that it they are they just going to scrape the kind of your what is an [TS]

  OPML is not what the I don't know I don't know enough about how the Google [TS]

  Reader API work that must be more than just OPML because there has to be away [TS]

  for clients like hey this one's been read yeah right you're right and pull [TS]

  more its but I've also heard though you know and Brent Simmons is hurt but that [TS]

  it's not a great API with a reason everybody adopted it is that it worked [TS]

  you know it's a kind of a crummy API but it worked and it was never really a [TS]

  published as an official API API uses all sort of and was never really [TS]

  official Google never really blocked it never said don't use it but they never [TS]

  said hey here's an API you can use for sinking people sort of backwards [TS]

  engineered it and for example I you know some of the best documentation for Brent [TS]

  Simmons net newswire fame but he doesn't do not newswire anymore that's a black [TS]

  pixel but while he was doing that newswire [TS]

  NewsGator he and the guy behind feed demon I'm blanking on his name right now [TS]

  but sorry about that but [TS]

  the feed demon app which is a newswire for Windows they he sort of backwards [TS]

  engineer lot of their API and documented it for their own news NewsGator for [TS]

  their apps but Google never really published docs for it so all these [TS]

  people who say they're going to duplicate it or duplicating an API that [TS]

  was never really fully published interesting yeah I don't know the [TS]

  response to it was amazing I i think that is like just look at my Twitter [TS]

  feed everyone was so pissed off and I do wonder and so I actually I got into a [TS]

  little bit with someone yesterday wondering if this is the first time [TS]

  under the Larry Page that that Google goes back on something it almost seems [TS]

  like there's a chance they could do that right because the backlash has just been [TS]

  so great like google has to see this and look like we did have something there [TS]

  maybe we just didn't put enough resources maybe we made a mistake and [TS]

  like I don't think anyone would think poorly on them if they said they came [TS]

  out and said exactly that like Marco Arment made the argument that it would [TS]

  be the worst thing they could do that maybe the best thing that could have [TS]

  done was just stick with it and improve it but now once they've announced that [TS]

  its dead and all these other people start building competitors and trying to [TS]

  break out of the ecosystem the worst thing they could do it he called it a [TS]

  dick move would be the then say nevermind we're gonna we're gonna keep [TS]

  going and then have all that wasted effort in the meantime I guess but if [TS]

  unless it's a reverse yeah if they reversed course quickly enough though [TS]

  I'm not quite sure that that applies yeah I thought his other point Marquez [TS]

  other points better where it's sort of I think this is his win at least that you [TS]

  know Google Reader while everyone you know all these people are up in arms [TS]

  about it and rightfully so in some ways it's also it really did courts or to [TS]

  stifle innovation in the RSS because it just became such a dominant player and [TS]

  sort of that mean that killed off some of the other guys but they all had to [TS]

  either be compatible with it and so it really didn't help that space at all and [TS]

  some now maybe there will be animation area at a certain point free and good [TS]

  enough and you know and with Google behind it [TS]

  is enough to it's almost impossible to overcome [TS]

  that's quite true but in this case in the case of the RSS market as it stood [TS]

  around 2005 it was impossible for anybody to really over and everybody who [TS]

  who sort of survived like apps like reader and that newswire survived by [TS]

  getting on board with it as their sinking and generate it would you how do [TS]

  you view though RSS overall I mean this is sort of the point were we may [TS]

  disagree it's like obviously both of our our readers are are fairly still [TS]

  addicted to it and use it in and you and I both in the past if not now we're [TS]

  addicted to using it but it never really been a mainstream thing I think everyone [TS]

  would agree on that even if people I think that it you can make the argument [TS]

  that it's a mainstream thing in that [TS]

  that it's a mainstream thing in that [TS]

  people use things like Flipboard and stuff maybe but they don't realize [TS]

  they're using RSS but no one like her parents have no idea what r assesses and [TS]

  now Twitter and Facebook and the social services have sort of replace the need [TS]

  for it but to some extent some of them still using I gotta know how do you say [TS]

  indicate out your the daring fireball Twitter account you just sink from RSS [TS]

  feeds that are you doing yeah I wrote a little thing that does read my RSS feed [TS]

  I know there's other services that do it but I wanted to do it my own way so I [TS]

  could truncate if if I happen to write a title that was that plus the URL was [TS]

  greater than a hundred and forty characters I wanted to try to get it yet [TS]

  so I do the same thing and I just wanted control over I just wanted control over [TS]

  yeah that makes sense but yeah and you know what it's also that was the only [TS]

  way I can figure out to get my custom link shortener and the tweets so [TS]

  like to during the at during fireball account is a little I don't only like 40 [TS]

  lines of Perl code ok but so happy viewers like since it never is [TS]

  become a means to right there's too well I think there's two ways to view it [TS]

  one is as technical plumbing and I don't think Google reader's disappearance [TS]

  changes that at all [TS]

  plague Google Reader disappears and people who like you said who read [TS]

  footboard and Flipboard just keeps working as ever it's not like websites [TS]

  are gonna pull their feeds I'm not going to just because Google reader's down [TS]

  even if if those tens I don't even know how many I'd really don't know how many [TS]

  people but lots and lots of during Fall Ball readers read it through Google [TS]

  Reader even if those readers don't subscribe to the feed again in another [TS]

  app and they just go away I'm still not taking my feet away you know cuz I know [TS]

  there's enough people use it elsewhere in people who read it through clipboard [TS]

  and stuff like that i mean it's still worth having a feed so the way that RSS [TS]

  is just plumbing that other apps using people don't even know they're reading [TS]

  RSS Google Reader really I don't think has any relevance to that I don't think [TS]

  it changes that all I think where does though I think the other aspect of RSS [TS]

  is among the people who do know what r assesses and its [TS]

  clearly a minority of the overall public but who they are are the news junkies [TS]

  and I think news junkies are it's again it's it's just sort of like with the [TS]

  phones where every reader is not equivalent right it's not like well if [TS]

  only three percent of overall readers use RSS and know what RSS says that it [TS]

  doesn't really matter of Google Reader goes away but those three percent of [TS]

  readers are the best readers because they're junkies and they're gonna come [TS]

  back multiple times a day they're the ones who are likely to read like every [TS]

  single thing I post there like the most avid readers of daring fireball yeah so [TS]

  I think that's incredibly valuable like sometimes you know it's the same way [TS]

  that the Mac could be an important part of the computer industry with 45 percent [TS]

  market share right and that's sort of what that sort of like this confuses me [TS]

  about why Google first of all there obviously they haven't put resources [TS]

  into it in a long time the entire team that built it is long gone they probably [TS]

  had a few people like literally a few people working on it you know in their [TS]

  spare time or whatever but it did but that's all they needed right click it [TS]

  didn't need anything they were going to build a new features for it I I have to [TS]

  wonder like if they're doing it just as a as a signal to we really are behind [TS]

  you know again Google+ and we want people to read the news that way and we [TS]

  don't want it but it seems like to shooting themselves in the foot with [TS]

  just pure bad PR for no real reason because again not taking up a lot of [TS]

  resources or whatever it's it's yes it's a it's a great noble cause to say that [TS]

  you want to be focused and have fewer products and I think that has helped [TS]

  Google in a lot regards but this is something where it's such a passionate [TS]

  user base that he was gonna never be anything but but a negative for them it [TS]

  sort of reminds me of when Yahoo sunset it delicious right it was like they [TS]

  ended up having to spend it out and sell it it's like this Google do that there's [TS]

  a lot I bet it's a lot of overlap between like the people who are diehard [TS]

  delicious users are better [TS]

  largely overlap with people who are very avid Google Reader users yeah and and [TS]

  and Google had to know that it's like the heavy Google Reader users are also a [TS]

  lot probably every single tech bloggers out there and they knew they were just [TS]

  gonna get pounded and pounded and pounded on things but they did it anyway [TS]

  but I think he retreated that that was funny to hear it's like so who wants to [TS]

  focus on Google glass good Google cars good self-driving cars magic class the [TS]

  Brazilian Social those day Google Reader yeah it's pretty funny yeah I don't know [TS]

  so I'm surprised that they did this at least that way that they did it and it's [TS]

  happening very soon to its you know it's only a few months which doesn't give [TS]

  those other teams that are working on things from scratch like dig a lot of [TS]

  time to come up with something well and sometimes you know I do wonder what [TS]

  Google sees as valuable like they know there's clearly what they can sell ads [TS]

  against is valuable to them that's where their revenue and that's a nice point [TS]

  because they tried to do that with Feedburner and then they had feed sense [TS]

  right and they just never took off when they still in Feedburner is still around [TS]

  but the fact that they're doing this to our to Google Reader would make if I [TS]

  ever had night never put a feeding Feedburner specifically because I never [TS]

  wanted to trust even though they give you some good analytics I have always [TS]

  thought I'd rather control my feed then then have the analyst so I image in in [TS]

  Feedburner and I do wonder now like what does that mean like why would I i [TS]

  Feedburner has been probably in my mind one of the most neglected Google [TS]

  products in the last at least five years six years whatever it's been a body and [TS]

  just stopped doing it right and you know the sort of humor said Dick Costolo was [TS]

  the yeah it's one of the founders of the to the point of view Merseyside he used [TS]

  to actually I would have problems with my personal blog feed [TS]

  I would email Google about it and it would be Dick Costolo on the email IMG [TS]

  let me look into that for you he was sort of funny have times changed but so [TS]

  yeah they really didn't do anything with it in like you should if you ever want [TS]

  to hear someone just complain non stop about Feedburner just talked to Gabe [TS]

  Rivera of text me because he sees its not only that Feedburner was neglected [TS]

  it would like really mess up feeds in some way point where like when he was [TS]

  trying to call them for for tech media headlines on there'll be all kinds of [TS]

  problems and create his own system to FeedBurner feeds yeah and part of that [TS]

  I've heard that too about Feedburner that Feedburner mangels feet and that's [TS]

  so far it's so almost ironic because one of the best things about Google Reader [TS]

  is a Google Reader is famously good at understanding mangled feed ya right that [TS]

  mismanaged you know feeds with Miss formed you know XML Google Reader was [TS]

  famous for being able to I understand what you really wanted like in the way [TS]

  that web browsers have always sort of dealt grace as gracefully as they can [TS]

  with with mangled HTML part of the whole idea behind RSS RSS XML is a hole at the [TS]

  beginning was and I know when I get into a big grin on the web standards but the [TS]

  XML guys were sort of idealists and they looked at HTML and said this is this is [TS]

  a nightmare the way that all the browsers have to support mangled [TS]

  invalidates team now let's make it a rule that XML parsers if they encounter [TS]

  an XML error have to break right right and that was the that's actually in the [TS]

  spec and RSS is a form of XML so if if you have bad RSS the whatever the app [TS]

  that reading is supposed to throw up an error and everybody who write software [TS]

  was like that's like the worst user error I'm not going to do that I'm going [TS]

  to do my best to read it [TS]

  and I think overall RSS is a lot better formed in more valid than HTML but it's [TS]

  you know it's just the nature of the world people are gonna write bad XML in [TS]

  Google Reader did a great job of making sense of it and that meant that like [TS]

  apps like reader or net news wire that goes through Google Reader for sinking [TS]

  could get the advantages of that sort of parsing smartness so I do I wonder now [TS]

  if as a result of this like there's either going to be one of two things [TS]

  have been like either people like you and I get a significant number of [TS]

  readers coming in from Google Reader just lose those guys like you said and [TS]

  they don't come back or does it help blake's a few of the new guys like that [TS]

  can actually innovate on top of what would a news reader should be sort of [TS]

  like re-invigorate the space to think that that will happen or do you think it [TS]

  will be like that's it all done now read through Twitter and so read less [TS]

  you never know I think there's an opportunity clearly there's an [TS]

  opportunity here for a reinvigoration of the entire RSS market and if you're [TS]

  really a news junkie I mean I do I really do worry about it in terms of the [TS]

  overall traffic is horrible because anytime you have to make a choice you [TS]

  can make a choice not to do it you know whereas like so like a die hard during [TS]

  fireball reader who subscribe through Google Reader and reserving I write once [TS]

  Google Reader goes away that reader has a choice of you know that this that the [TS]

  other replacement for Google Reader but another one of the choices they have is [TS]

  just not to subscribe and just think in the back of their mind our check during [TS]

  fireball out on the Web whenever I think of right and you hit me and you have to [TS]

  imagine that that's going to be at least some percentage or not it's gonna be [TS]

  more than 20 right that's you know and who knows how big it is [TS]

  so I'm worried but it's certainly something I'm concerned about other [TS]

  things too is I have no idea how many people returning fire ball through [TS]

  Google Reader I posted the other day where it where when they hit your feed [TS]

  they put in the user agent string how many subscribers there are two your feet [TS]

  in Google Reader and for Darren fireball its three hundred and seventy some [TS]

  thousand plus a bunch of other hundred and some that are subdued for some [TS]

  reason Google Reader sometimes put your feet in under a different right I D but [TS]

  it's you know somewhere in the order of of close to 400,000 but there's no way [TS]

  that there's actually 400,000 active readers because that counts [TS]

  everybody who's ever subscribe to my feed in Google Reader whether they're [TS]

  still using google reader are not right when when somebody who uses any feed [TS]

  reader Google Reader or anything when they stopped using it when they do sort [TS]

  of fade away from using google reader and don't really check in anymore [TS]

  nobody goes in and unsubscribe from all their feeds first right there still [TS]

  subscribed right so I have no idea [TS]

  hundred thousand active readers of daring fireballs freedom Google Reader [TS]

  is it actually close to that 370,000 number is it really only 25,000 I I have [TS]

  no idea and so do you also think that someone put us for it I think it was on [TS]

  Twitter yesterday the notion that because feed sense the monetization of [TS]

  the feeds never really took off in the way that it was hoping Google viewed [TS]

  this is like it's almost like they entered into the system what they want [TS]

  to do because they they want people to be on the web they want people to be [TS]

  using Google and they want people to be on websites where their shirt showing up [TS]

  Google ads and a lot of people you know like I would just few things through the [TS]

  feed reader if it had a full feed and I would never hit those sites cause I'm [TS]

  not gonna go there to comments and do other things and so you know there's an [TS]

  argument that could be made that I was in a way you know if you want to call it [TS]

  mooching or whatever [TS]

  off of those sites that were making no advertising money off of me and so since [TS]

  Google being the largest by far web advertiser Google to some extent than [TS]

  was losing money as a result of that [TS]

  I guess so maybe I can help it today must be part of the equation that they [TS]

  put you know to decide to stop this that Thursday couldn't you know they didn't [TS]

  think it was a way to make money but the thing that surprises me is that they [TS]

  didn't see it as a way to collect interesting information about people [TS]

  yeah what you know that maybe they can't put ads on it while you're reading in [TS]

  Google Reader but they do know what you're reading and Google Reader yeah [TS]

  that seems to me like it would inform the ads they can show you elsewhere when [TS]

  they can show you and yes that's what surprises me is it seems to me that [TS]

  knowing what a couple of million news junkies are reading seems like really [TS]

  interesting information from Google perspective like something that they [TS]

  could do something that just seems like prime Google material and then I just [TS]

  always assume that's why they built it in the first and that reminds me of [TS]

  something which I thought about until right now but someone had always [TS]

  BuzzFeed BuzzFeed about three months ago has a link to it and so I just searched [TS]

  for it quickly BuzzFeed had the story that goes in depth about the night that [TS]

  Google shut off the social features within Google Reader and switched over [TS]

  to Google+ integration and this was like a giant think for a lot of these users [TS]

  who is really like the first step when everyone knew like the type that is [TS]

  coming or whatever but there's like there's this whole thing called like [TS]

  share Bros sounds ridiculous but there's some kind of community called share Bros [TS]

  within the Google Reader community that were just like using google reader just [TS]

  to share with one another and it really was like a very tight knit community I [TS]

  guess of people who around news and and Google could have had all of this [TS]

  interesting information around that that kind of data but instead that they'd be [TS]

  tried to go for the Google+ integration and an alienated all of those users and [TS]

  then later took off or or they were just pissed off and now but it speaks to what [TS]

  you were getting at where you could have done a lot more interesting things like [TS]

  they had a really great social network for news and they never really did [TS]

  anything with it just doesn't quite I've always thought that Google had two types [TS]

  of things their inner city [TS]

  one that things that they actually sell ads against and then to the type of [TS]

  things where they can collect information about you if you're signed [TS]

  into Google that would be useful for selling ads against you of your interest [TS]

  later like one level away from advertising and so to me maps is like [TS]

  that like to me they don't I'd never see many ads on maps very few certainly know [TS]

  I've never seen enough ads on Google Maps that would ever justify the value [TS]

  I've gotten out of it but presumably when I'm signed into Google and use maps [TS]

  the location data that they've collected about me is useful to them right right [TS]

  that it's more the aggregate use it the aggregate location data of their users [TS]

  is what's valuable to Google Maps for them not the ads they're actually [TS]

  selling through apps yeah and I was at the same thing about Google Reader yeah [TS]

  I saw the only thing that sticks in my head that is just said they feel like [TS]

  once again they need to push Google+ in to be that source of information [TS]

  well and that's you know I guess that that's the other factor and the other [TS]

  thing I thought Google Reader be interesting for it wouldn't and I maybe [TS]

  it already is maybe this is a source of information is going away but I always [TS]

  presumed that Google Reader would be important for driving the algorithms [TS]

  behind Google News right and what's what's a top story what's going to get [TS]

  people interested [TS]

  like a lot of people interested in this you know galaxy s4 launch kids are [TS]

  reading these things about it so let's promote that story on Google News to the [TS]

  mass market [TS]

  of people who just check out Google News yeah and there was out there was an [TS]

  ocean way back in the day probably five years ago or something that people that [TS]

  Google was going to create a quote unquote big killer by using the Google [TS]

  Reader information right to say what people were starring because it was like [TS]

  a big part of it you could star all the things people would subscribe to save [TS]

  you know squabbles yeah that's right right right so you could surface then [TS]

  the top news the day that and they never did it it was like an easy way to [TS]

  particularly Iran link blog where ya you you would go through Google Reader when [TS]

  you saw something interesting you'd start it and [TS]

  anybody if you're if you're I guess I think you had control over whether that [TS]

  was published yeah you did designs for it right at one then you could you know [TS]

  you were started links through Google Reader was you know like a link plug [TS]

  yeah I that's the thing that you're saying about Google+ as I also I do [TS]

  wonder whether this was like this political spot fungus of that they've [TS]

  been trying to get people to use Google+ for a lot of the same things discovery [TS]

  of interesting links and sharing links and it just isn't taking off right and [TS]

  that somebody else made the point that if the reason they're there for their [TS]

  reason for killing Google Reader is it just isn't popular enough and wise [TS]

  Google+ is clearly fewer people are using Google Plus reader and someone has [TS]

  anyone had the stats yesterday that they're still seeing way more inbound [TS]

  traffic from Google Reader Google+ everybody is everybody is the only [TS]

  reason that when they quote Google+ numbers that there they called a huge [TS]

  number is the account Gmail users Google+ so if you use Gmail it's like 50 [TS]

  million people account is active Google+ user but nobody's actually using Google+ [TS]

  is cooler not nobody but relatively few compared to Google Reader I carried [TS]

  outside of Google Voice but Google+ is like the baby that's the the prized the [TS]

  favorite child that's the one Larry Page you know that's his baby is CEO that's [TS]

  the one that what's his name the guy from Microsoft is always a keno quiet [TS]

  Vic Gundotra yeah Vic Gundotra [TS]

  he is you know he's you know obviously very influential there and you know [TS]

  Google+ is sort of his baby and I kinda can't help but feel that they've they [TS]

  like Coke some sticks like come on move to Google+ Google+ and none of the [TS]

  diehard Google Reader movers users dead and now it's like wow now you're gonna [TS]

  have to ya which I haven't heard one single person say they did this to [TS]

  Google Reader but I guess I'll move to Google+ its if anything the opposite [TS]

  will happen to be more spiteful of it and just not go there right because you [TS]

  can't even do i mean there's the sharing stuff you can do but you can subscribe [TS]

  to feeds me that's what most people want to do these things I'm interested in I [TS]

  wanted to see every single thing that they post right and you can I mean you [TS]

  could do it in the same convoluted way that you do that for Twitter which is [TS]

  that you would set up some kind of automated thing where it you create a [TS]

  page for your site or whatever and then you then you do an RSS to Google+ right [TS]

  had sort of a boil the ocean plan know where everybody who has our news [TS]

  publishing RSS his gayness publisher Google+ I don't know me I'm not gonna do [TS]

  that yeah that's going to be your future all Google+ yeah so how do you see a [TS]

  plan before we sign up do you think that that this again it's not know there's [TS]

  zero chance that RSS as technical plumbing is going away and I think when [TS]

  they reach a time or called it take the file system of news right and I think [TS]

  that's a great analogy insofar as it's like iOS users in post-pc I'll post PC [TS]

  platform sort of obfuscate the file system from the user's that doesn't mean [TS]

  the file system isn't there though is so they're in the code uses it that's our [TS]

  going away but is news reading for news junkies going on so I guess I guess the [TS]

  way I would answer that is I wonder what this means is relative to the world just [TS]

  continuing to shift towards mobile computer right it's like the RSS readers [TS]

  and at the Google Reader in particular work great on the desktop but on mobile [TS]

  while reader and there are some other good [TS]

  ones feedly in some other good ones out there it's not the same and I don't feel [TS]

  like people use it in the exact same way because you just can't it's a small [TS]

  screen you know your your you can't multitask really in the same way of [TS]

  doing as you can on a computer and so i i think that this is an opportunity for [TS]

  something new to come about or for something someone like Flipboard or [TS]

  dagger someone else to take advantage and really innovate on top of what has [TS]

  come before it but I do think it's going to have to be different from what it was [TS]

  I don't think that we just get this straight up news reader as we had with [TS]

  Google Reader because it just you know everyone's on the phone all the time and [TS]

  I mostly links I clicked through on Twitter and then I either save them to [TS]

  read later and Instapaper whatever and then but I i'm just not using a feed [TS]

  reader anywhere I do on my desktop but I don't on my phone because twitter fills [TS]

  up the entirety of my I'm on my phone and I'm bored waiting in a line or have [TS]

  a couple of minutes to blow what's new [TS]

  I never get to the end of what's new in Twitter and then think well alright [TS]

  maybe I'll switch to get to that's exactly right I'm exact same way and and [TS]

  I assume you still click on links with into attorney reads stories as your [TS]

  going but it's it's just a different way of its different mentality because it's [TS]

  a different use cases so I do think that it's just going to be different going [TS]

  forward but clearly there's I died not sure there's a lot of people listening [TS]

  right now who do you use reader or net newswire something you know [TS]

  their phones and iPads in a reader and certainly is very popular yeah on the [TS]

  phone and you know what are they going to use for sinking I don't know and I do [TS]

  that's the one thing that's the thing that Google Reader had that's essential [TS]

  to mobile is it really nobody wants to use an RSS readers that don't sink right [TS]

  it's the same way that nobody wants to use III email that doesn't think like if [TS]

  you read 10 emails on your phone [TS]

  nobody wants to sit down at their desktop and marked those 10 messages [TS]

  read again drive you nuts right same thing with RSS you don't want to see all [TS]

  these articles to read on your phone we sit down you gotta have sync but [TS]

  everybody was using google reader forcing so what's gonna happen yes I one [TS]

  of these guys I don't know I don't know who will win i'd I would imagine that [TS]

  there won't be just one that becomes massive cos I think they'll go about a [TS]

  different way right there will be a visual one there'll be a more [TS]

  streamlined quick one so yeah I think it's a it's a good opportunity for a lot [TS]

  of people but it does its gonna hurt for a while until someone builds yeah and it [TS]

  also seems to me like nm first thought if anybody thinks well they're giving us [TS]

  till July you know that's pretty generous I you know from an engineering [TS]

  standpoint boy from now to july is not a long time to build a reliable scalable [TS]

  platform you're right it's gonna be it's going to be tough one last final point I [TS]

  want to make its ok you brought up you brought up going back to my roots going [TS]

  back to earlier think she wrote a Google i/o with with Vic Gundotra talk about [TS]

  that I wonder if maybe that has to do with the timing right because they know [TS]

  that Google i/o is coming up its go and reason to be a huge part of it maybe [TS]

  even half of it say and they need it to be they need to nail that presentation [TS]

  right and they can't have any rubin you know on his way out the door [TS]

  you know having just stepped down two weeks earlier whatever up there on stage [TS]

  giving that presentation they need like cohesive leadership and in everyone to [TS]

  be on the same page so maybe that does have something to do it [TS]

  yeah but they could have done it today that's true and even if they didn't want [TS]

  to burden on a Friday [TS]

  day then you know couldn't Monday that's a really good post I just don't know [TS]

  just verbalizing it made me think that it's not a it really is not a [TS]

  coincidence that they did it the day before the day of I forget but before [TS]

  that s for lunch maybe that was either the ultimate middle finger or ultimate [TS]

  olive branch to Sams on hard to say could be either way but I don't think it [TS]

  was unrelated yeah very interesting oMG see their thanks for being our Paris [TS]

  11.com at Paris lemon on Twitter [TS]

  thank you for having me again my thanks to my sponsors to deal with simple [TS]

  bracket the great iPhone app Pixelmator [TS]

  Pixelmator dot com and and things and things cloud sync it cultured code dot [TS]

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