0:00:00erica Ogg welcome to the talk-show thank you glad to be here so I don't know that
0:00:05there's a lot of big news this week although it may be that Kevin Lynch
0:00:08thing is but there's a lot of little news this week and one that just came
0:00:12out today and I'm to me this is fascinating it is the story that Eric
0:00:16Schmidt chairman and former CEO of Google still uses a blackberry that that
0:00:22is somewhat surprising did you see this
0:00:25yeah I did see it was yesterday and this morning I think so yeah and it's not
0:00:30like a rumors I like somebody snapped a picture of him and it looked like he was
0:00:33using a blackberry was like on stage at some conference and somebody was like
0:00:36what role do you think I great right now I'm sure to follow up question should
0:00:41have been an Android phone
0:00:44well obviously that's what you would think is to be a team player you would
0:00:48think the chairman of Google would use some sort of Android phone probably you
0:00:52would think probably a nexus i mean Nexus 4 yeah I mean you think he'd be
0:00:57carrying you know the best that his company has to offer and to me it so to
0:01:03me there's a twofold intrigue here is one he's not using the company's phone
0:01:08which is you know it's not like it's brand new it's not like it's the year
0:01:11one of Android and he still needs XYZ from blackberry because it's an
0:01:15established platform which is semi kind of understandable it's you know the
0:01:21first hundred times cannot make 2008 it's it's like you're five and the
0:01:25second thing is blackberry really like I would almost be in fact I would be I
0:01:31wouldn't I don't know that I would make fun of them or maybe I'd make fun of me
0:01:34a lot less if he was using sand I know I mean I would think I mean if he wasn't
0:01:40using Android I would automatically think that he was using an iPhone
0:01:43because you just would think that in today's age you would want features that
0:01:49the old blackberries died and I presume that the one day I don't know I presume
0:01:53it's not the brand new z10 modern blackberry we're talking about the old
0:01:58one that's just bbm messages and phone calls
0:02:01yeah it's hard to believe that most people they could have the excuse right
0:02:05is like oh it's with the aidid guys at my company make me use
0:02:09but that argument that are not just doesn't seem like that would stand up
0:02:12for him well and because everybody knows the people that Google read everybody I
0:02:19know what Google uses either Android or and I of course because they want to be
0:02:22on the web all the time and they want to be using apps right and it just bring
0:02:29mine and I'm gonna keep moving back to this is is you know is this being fair
0:02:34is this what I would do if it where is this what we would say if it was
0:02:37somebody an apple or something like that and so I'll give an example of that and
0:02:41it's widely known that when Apple acquired next and the next executive
0:02:48team sort of person took over Apple in 1997 that at least for most of ninety
0:02:55seven I'm not sure when he switched but at least from us 297 even though he was
0:02:59dead
0:02:59interim CEO or even before he was interim CEO is still very very
0:03:04influential at Apple because he'd come back Steve Jobs didn't use a PowerBook
0:03:08he used like I think it was a ThinkPad running next really yet another but that
0:03:16makes some amount of sense though where it's not necessary okay so he wasn't
0:03:20quite being a team player but I think the gist of the situation was hey are
0:03:26you know are being Apple are OS has really fallen behind technically we need
0:03:35something new and new next generation thing so in a sense he was using
0:03:39something that was more like what Apple's future was about then using a
0:03:43PowerBook
0:03:45it wasn't necessarily politically problematic that he was using a ThinkPad
0:03:49running open so right and you can you can kind of see it like you probably
0:03:54design wise he probably gravitated towards something like to think that was
0:03:59really good for what he needed to do with the computer at the time right and
0:04:05I saw I would say would be more like the equivalent of an executive at Google
0:04:09we're using a blackberry in 2008 right that Android was new we've only just
0:04:15come out with the first one it doesn't do everything we need yet
0:04:18but we're working hard to make sure that it's going to be better than this this
0:04:23old thing that I like I don't think it's the same thing yeah I agree it's that's
0:04:31mysterious I would really love to hear his explanation for that it had and i
0:04:41cant stop laughing like I wonder and wonder how many Google services use
0:04:46those black crimes your Google search works is fine but I wonder how much else
0:04:51I'm a guess you can get your email but that's kind of the point the BlackBerry
0:04:54right right so the big news of the week the Big Apple news of the week is that
0:05:01Apple has hired from Adobe former Derby CTL Kevin Lynch right and you think this
0:05:09is a terrible idea well I wouldn't go so far as to say that I guess I should tone
0:05:15down my posts ever so slightly I get anything I maybe I miss the word might
0:05:19and the headline where I had exhibit a in the case that Kevin Lynch is a bozo
0:05:25about higher I should have maybe said might be a bozo about higher because I
0:05:29don't know I mean maybe the guys gonna turn out and do a fantastic job whatever
0:05:35hard to do but the truth is for the last I don't know five years everything that
0:05:40I've read and followed about chemical engineer has been to me backwards
0:05:47thinking it's not just the flash thing either but the flash thing has a major
0:05:52part of it and I haven't seen much that was that was really in his favor
0:05:58yeah I mean I've been covering Apple and I haven't paid as much attention to like
0:06:02what he's been doing but I guess from what I have seen like when his when he
0:06:07has said stuff about Apple about you know the whole flash fate I guess I look
0:06:13back on it just seems like a company guy right like that's his job right to do is
0:06:19get Adobe
0:06:20and to promote their technologies and I wonder like what he should have done and
0:06:30that is absolutely and I'm you know I've gotten as much feedback about those few
0:06:34short post I wrote about him as anything i've written recently and you know both
0:06:38pro and con I got an awful lot like you know good for you or you know just
0:06:42speaking her mind I'm this guy who's been saying things about fashion and
0:06:46mobile OS's for a few years to the other side
0:06:50heyy you jump in on these guys know what do you expect him to do he's gotta
0:06:54follow the company's line and you know
0:06:56dobie them and flash and doing their best to try to make it relevant on
0:07:00mobile and and my take on that is that he wasn't just an employee his title
0:07:05wasn't like / evangelist he wasn't good product manager of flash in which case I
0:07:11could totally by the the argument he was just telling the company lied to me and
0:07:17I think this is sort of what I wrote is that as the CTO of Adobe he was the guy
0:07:21painting the company and I just can't help but think that he should have known
0:07:27better
0:07:30yeah I mean it's obviously it's hard to speculate that we don't know what the
0:07:33internal dynamics were at the time you know what how much control you how to
0:07:40read that or how much employees he could have had kids I mean flashes / rate like
0:07:45he couldn't
0:07:46what if you were the one to be like alright actually Steve's rate could he
0:07:51say that could be like quietly start to say that inside but not publicly right
0:07:57and that is why I really do hope that it was clear I magnin write extensively
0:08:01about it but I hope that whatever it was short and sweet and made this point
0:08:04which is that what he said publicly circa 2007 when the iPhone was first
0:08:09announced the first one came out without flash in 2008 when it did really sort of
0:08:15started with the 3G sorted to become a phenomenon like really started to sell
0:08:19rather startling numbers is one thing because you could say look this is early
0:08:25clearly Apple is sort of define the next generation of mobile technology but
0:08:30there's obviously you know everybody else is going to follow
0:08:32let's see how it shakes out maybe flash can be a part of that I whenever he said
0:08:38back then i think is fine weather whatever he believed it out but I think
0:08:41behind the scenes though it should have been a wake-up call and I think that
0:08:45they should have realized that no way was Apple gonna get on board with this
0:08:47that this was a browser and I less was not gonna run ever and that they needed
0:08:55to work on what's next so that Adobe can be relevant to creative professionals
0:09:00creating content for these devices you know I don't know what what you want to
0:09:06say is that like an epic intact but three years is a long time I think in
0:09:13technology usually it's like if you go back three years you can find all sorts
0:09:16of stuff that I can't believe that we had back then and so like the three
0:09:20years between the iPhone and the first iPad to me that's when do we should have
0:09:26at least behind the scenes not necessarily publicly but behind the
0:09:29scenes should have been working on something that was going to work on
0:09:35mobile devices that don't have Flash Player installed and web browser and
0:09:39they did when I had came out in 2010 it was the same song and dance all over
0:09:43again so is your is your concern but you know the Apple has taken a guide that
0:09:51that might come in and just like stick to one thing and not continue their
0:09:57pattern of looking to the next things getting to the puck is going like all
0:10:01about that would sort of a little bit and you know I think that you know I
0:10:09said there's a couple of times and and I think Steve Jobs you know Tim Cook said
0:10:13this explicit I think it was a 2d conference last year but that Steve Jobs
0:10:16changed his mind all the time that the way that he accumulated a great track
0:10:21record of foresight and being right and and creating these innovative products
0:10:26over the course of decades was not by being right every single time he made a
0:10:31decision every step of the way it was by being right a lot of the time and then
0:10:36the time he was wrong
0:10:37revisiting and saying okay that was wrong let's do it the other way
0:10:43was very much came through in the biography to rate is he wasn't afraid
0:10:48someone proved he wasn't afraid to say ok you're right let's do that and so I
0:10:55linked to his name Eric somebody at forbes who had a piece done on bozos
0:11:02what is it what I mean by and that's a word that Steve Jobs is the line that
0:11:06did you know that he thought john sculley wound up being a bozo and you
0:11:11know used the word lie that's why I chose that word and his definition of
0:11:16bozo loosely was someone who is smart but is not as smart as he thinks he is
0:11:21and gets defensive about it and starts rationalizing every decision they've
0:11:27already made to sort of make it seem as though they're always right right so I
0:11:32definitely there's no doubt 0 doubt in my mind that Kevin Lynch's a very smart
0:11:36man I mean you can't get you can't get that high Adobe without being smart and
0:11:40I'm sure that Apple would not hard to see one of those guys who is not as
0:11:45smart as he thinks he is and latches onto an idea doesn't like 0 likes a
0:11:49flash players gonna be a relevant technology and mobile operating systems
0:11:54right I find it interesting I mean I guess this is a point
0:11:59potentially in favor of maybe have him having little humility is he's going
0:12:03from Oct 02 VP
0:12:07I mean like I think that says something about what he thinks he's capable of
0:12:13what he can offer Apple yeah that is a very good point because at Apple Apple
0:12:19doesn't really have the c-level executives at most companies do I think
0:12:23they only have to right now thats Tim Cook CEO and Peter Oppenheimer CFO who I
0:12:30think they're both like legally obligated by the SEC to have people with
0:12:34those titles like you have to have a CFO I believe other than that there are no
0:12:39other there's no chief white bike officer of anything like obviously when
0:12:45when cook stepped up there is no COO anymore right and that's interesting to
0:12:51them didn't replace him as CEO there is a senior vice president of operations
0:12:54but he didn't get the COO title you know and Phil Schiller is not chief marketing
0:13:00officer he's you know senior vice versa senior vice president is as high as you
0:13:04can go up or other than to BC and he's not a senior vice president I did their
0:13:10executives page where they show that executive leadership of the company only
0:13:14list the senior vice presidents it doesn't like so Kevin Lynch won't be
0:13:18listed there which is interesting because it's definitely a couple 0 CT 0
0:13:23right but it's interesting I was talking with somebody I forget who on Twitter
0:13:30and they pointed out that at this point Apple is so much bigger than it does it
0:13:35even being quote unquote a mere vice president at a pool actually might be a
0:13:41bigger deal than being CTO of Adobe which is kind of hard for me to wrap my
0:13:45head around because I've been following both of these companies for so long I
0:13:49remember when Adobe was bigger than Apple at least you know bite stock
0:13:53prices stuff like that so it's kind of funny for me to think about it that way
0:13:58like I still kind of see adobe is one of Apple's peers but they really really
0:14:02aren't any well I'm gonna talk about your company right there are few
0:14:07companies that are apples pears no more but it's weird it's still kind of hard
0:14:14for me to get my head around that year
0:14:16like when I think about Microsoft and I still think of Microsoft instantly I
0:14:21think of them as being a much bigger almost bullying company that Apple but
0:14:25they're not they're smaller by any measure so here's a question what do you
0:14:34think Kevin Lynch is going to be doing it up that's what i was gonna ask you I
0:14:40don't know I feel like that's the big mystery well I mean that he was working
0:14:45on cloud stuff so I think that would be interesting obviously that's an area
0:14:50that Apple needs you know some help with an area that's like extreme focus for
0:14:57them so I don't know I am really curious like how can I like how it went down and
0:15:06why they hired him like they hire him because he realized he wasn't gonna go
0:15:09any further and Adobe and he was like hey and now available or do they go
0:15:14after him and that I think that's an interesting distinction just because
0:15:19they need someone to fill position and they didn't hire they didn't promote
0:15:23from within or they had to go outside
0:15:27that's that's what I'm I think that would determine more the answer to my
0:15:30question there's a couple of mysteries about how many apples always mysteries
0:15:35because they're never going to really open up but some of the questions I have
0:15:40is why is he in this technology Bob Mansfield technology division which you
0:15:46know on paper they say it's about semiconductors and wireless technology
0:15:49but I think it's more that Bob Mansfield Technology Group is sort of Apple's
0:15:57equivalent of research and development maybe like their equivalent of Google
0:16:00acts where it's like next-generation technology period because one of the
0:16:05reasons I think that and I think they gave it this really plain description of
0:16:08wireless and semiconductors because anything that Apple might possibly be
0:16:12working on is going to involve semiconductors and wireless technology
0:16:17like there is no possible taking device that they're making it doesn't involve
0:16:20those things
0:16:21yeah it's actually kind of funny when you think about it that way right i mean
0:16:25these are the guys shrinking the systems on a chip these are the guys getting
0:16:28wireless stuff that uses less power and has the most bandwidth as possible
0:16:32etcetera but that's anything up on my right and didn't when when they hired
0:16:36Mansfield backer whenever they get new position is not what they said that he
0:16:42would be working on movie apple into new areas I remember I don't have liked the
0:16:47show that there was there was a hint of it there was a hint of it in that PR
0:16:52that it was going to be a sort of like apple just doesn't call much R&D they
0:16:57really don't like and so some people make a stink about it like I know are
0:17:01good mutual friend Dan Lyons is often somehow gloated over the fact that
0:17:06Apple's R&D expenditures as you know divided by their revenue is really small
0:17:12compared to most of their peer companies but I think that simply because Apple
0:17:16doesn't call much of what they do R&D itself is it yeah it really do think so
0:17:23i think that they you know they don't really do much and they never do one
0:17:26thing like steve Jobs was like allergic to was are indeed that's unrelated to
0:17:32specific actual products that they might want to develop like they don't make
0:17:36fantasy products just that aren't rich you know maybe twenty years and I will
0:17:40be able to make this simple just play around with ourselves and make this
0:17:45group that's not realistic in the next couple of years so I think the day
0:17:50they're always working on real projects and I think that what most companies
0:17:53will call Rd they just expenses product about what you would think so he's
0:18:02reporting to Bob Mansfield who does something we don't really nobody's
0:18:05really sure what he does but he's certainly very well-regarded within the
0:18:08company
0:18:09Mansfield right but you would think that if it was about the cloud stuff and this
0:18:15is because of dobie has recently I have what create the Creative Cloud and I
0:18:19forget with the other ones called the Creative Cloud as I can get like a
0:18:22subscription to Photoshop and Illustrator etc without getting a DVD
0:18:26anymore I cannot take a monthly subscription forget their other cloud I
0:18:32think it's the one with I don't know probably Adobe Acrobat Reader and stuff
0:18:36like that and apparently that's gone very well that the people who subscribe
0:18:41to the Creative Cloud pretty happy with it and so there's a lot of speculation
0:18:45that maybe that's basically what Apple hired Lynch to do but if so when he
0:18:49reported a DQ I would say yeah I mean I mean I guess it depends if he was
0:19:00working on something more like infrastructure wise or something that it
0:19:08would seem like technologies with the place to be but if it was more like
0:19:11directly on the actual services then yeah he would make more sense and I
0:19:19think it was John coach Caskey it all things the who you know said that early
0:19:25on he you know had somebody at Apple confirmed to him that his title will be
0:19:29VP of technology new report about Mansfield said that his duties will be
0:19:33coordinating efforts between hardware and software teams across the company
0:19:38which again is sort of like what what what part of what Apple does isn't about
0:19:44coordinating hardware software teams across the company like that so vague
0:19:48that it almost doesn't mean anything
0:19:51yes it's sort of classic Apple classically sort of generic when they
0:19:55have to make a statement on something
0:19:56yeah it sounds like it makes sense then you really think about it you realize
0:20:01that could be almost a mile s could be mad could be both could be iCloud and
0:20:05that's also their theme lately arrayed like ever since the reorg is getting
0:20:10things to work together more closely so fewer fiefdom than even they had before
0:20:17and had relatively few theft of us by the standards of most big company the
0:20:26other thing I've heard and i've heard from my friends at Adobe and the friends
0:20:30I've spoken to Italy maybe they've colored my commentary on this is
0:20:34certainly but
0:20:35they seem to the general consensus of the people I know it is good reasons
0:20:40really yeah what and why that internally the consensus from the people I've
0:20:48spoken to Adobe's that Lynch really was a true believer in flash on mobile that
0:20:52he wasn't just telling the company line that he really really thought that flash
0:20:57was gonna pull this out and still be relevant long-term going into the future
0:21:01and like for example one of my friends cited as like a landmark in this was
0:21:08when version 4.1 of Android last summer which i think came out like July but it
0:21:17was somewhere in the 4.0 4.0 or 4.1 of Android where Google is like you know
0:21:21what we're no longer going to include flash player in the built-in browser in
0:21:27the system and it's not gonna talk and work anymore like they've sort of you
0:21:31know the sort of threw in the towel in that which i think should have been I
0:21:37think everybody else so that is the final nail in the coffin right that that
0:21:41flashes Flash Player is not going to be relevant mobile going forward I thought
0:21:46but apparently inside Adobe he still thought wow now even Google is screwing
0:21:51this up we're still gonna do this but even even Google isn't smart enough to
0:21:55see how how important flash players gonna be on mobile right he was like you
0:22:04know let's move on right and that dog i mean friends I have definitely the lower
0:22:09level they're you know they're they're enlisted men not officers to to use the
0:22:15military analogy but you know that they just don't like it he was holding back
0:22:19the company from doing more relevant work on mobile by insisting that flash
0:22:23player was going to be part of the company's mobile efforts even like last
0:22:28summer that than that yeah that would be concerning it was coming for him and
0:22:35like using the phrase like holding them back like that's that's like a show on
0:22:41the flip side though and i'll settle on the optimistic side that hey don't be
0:22:45worried there's two things I've heard wine and this I heard from
0:22:48first day I heard this from three friends out in all three said more or
0:22:52less the same thing which is I don't know what's the deal I don't know what
0:22:57the deal is with lunch in particular but Bob Mansfield suffers no fools if this
0:23:03guy is a bozo he'll be out of here there's no doubt that Mansfield's gonna
0:23:08do you know if he reports to Mansfield and he's he's not doing great work is
0:23:12going to be gone thank you all very different three different ppl popped up
0:23:16with that and I believe it but I think if that happens it's gonna be
0:23:20embarrassing trouble I kind of feel and especially i sort of thing for Tim Cook
0:23:24because I feel like the John Browett thing is it real
0:23:28has a lot of people you know concern yeah I was just gonna say if you like
0:23:32quicker hook then then cooked on browser that's going to be yeah that'll be very
0:23:40embarrassing and who knows maybe you know we don't know maybe it was entirely
0:23:44Bob Mansfield call Bob you hire you on and Bob Mansfield is single-handedly
0:23:50said I'm this is the guy but it's not going to be read that way if if he did
0:23:55he doesn't work out
0:23:57yeah yeah that's going to undermine confidence in Europe's ability to hire
0:24:02obviously he has one strike against him and like it or not he's under more
0:24:10pressure as the successor to Steve Jobs then even steve Jobs was under Jobs
0:24:16hasn't been executive hires who who did jobs have that Papermaster Papermaster
0:24:21and that was kinda hard to run Mac hardware or all hardware I forget it was
0:24:29it was all hardware he was one from the Czech guy from IBM yeah and he's the guy
0:24:36who got there and he kind of took the axe for the antennagate bright and early
0:24:41seemingly certainly looked like a sort of shooed him away after that so there
0:24:48was also Tim butcher now this is going back almost a decade but temperature
0:24:55where I think it was in charge of Mac hardware but yeah he says here's here's
0:25:00a report from 2005 in
0:25:01neck Observer Mr Butcher was the head of Macintosh hardware engineering for Apple
0:25:05and oversaw the development of the recently introduced Mac Mini he joined
0:25:10Apple in 2007 as vice president of macintosh system development was
0:25:14promoted to senior vice president of Macintosh hardware engineering in May
0:25:172004 and so to hear the story is that the lawsuit he event ended up after he
0:25:24got fired he filed a lawsuit against Apple alleges that Apple CEO and COO Tim
0:25:30Cook Apple's executive vice president he was executive he wasn't CEO executive
0:25:35vice president of worldwide sales and operations they told Mr Butcher on two
0:25:39separate occasions that he had not failed in his work but never gave
0:25:43specific reasons as to why they wanted to leave the company you're not a
0:25:46failure Mr Jobs reportedly told Mr Butcher early November even God couldn't
0:25:50do have done both of the jobs I think that was because he was doing Mac
0:25:54hardware like iPod hardware two days later according to the lawsuit Mr Jobs
0:25:59told him people sometimes think you are manic-depressive I'm not sure what I'm
0:26:03gonna do but I think I'm gonna have to ask you to leave the company anyway that
0:26:08was a high-level executive obviously did not pan out
0:26:13Papermaster was probably a little bit more damning cause he was I don't even
0:26:17know he was there for a year
0:26:18one-member the whole lawsuit they had like fight IBM on that but what you call
0:26:24it doesn't say company on the non-compete and just looked ugly awful
0:26:33right and it's sort of like cats and a certain point sometimes when you hire
0:26:38executives right away from another company it's almost like a sports trade
0:26:42we've got a comp you know compensate them somehow you just write him a check
0:26:46for someone you know you negotiate something that I got it to pay like a
0:26:50waiver fear something if they have a non-compete I think I am NOT a lawyer in
0:26:57this tough course me but I know california has a really really liberal
0:27:00non-compete clause meaning that there there in favor of employees and
0:27:04employees are are almost unrestricted by non competes in California right you
0:27:09can't really there
0:27:10r their employee favorable laws not employer favorables but I think the
0:27:16problem of paper masters he was coming from IBM in New York where they do and
0:27:20there is you know that was the question whereas I think like with Kevin Lynch
0:27:24with two california companies Adobe and Apple it's no fair game
0:27:28yeah I mean I didn't even mention that now can I don't and I think especially
0:27:36with the statement that Adobe made where they're like yeah he's gone he's going
0:27:40to be like I don't know I don't expect their cause I think it's I think again I
0:27:50could be wrong
0:27:50watch this afternoon 5 o'clock right it's gonna be like a lawsuit shows gonna
0:27:57look stupid but I don't think that I but long story short I think if Kevin Lynch
0:28:03doesn't work out and only last six seven months or something like that and that's
0:28:07the same way but I'm Papermaster lasted nobody remembers Papermaster but
0:28:12everybody's gonna remember this because Tim Cook is under so much more scrutiny
0:28:16than Steve Jobs and east and the second factor like you said he's already got
0:28:21one strike against him
0:28:22John Browett yeah one other curious thing about this and you mentioned as to
0:28:30why didn't they hire from within Apple most famously does a lot of their
0:28:34promotions from with it that's why I wonder if it was like he came to them
0:28:40like here looking for a way out shortly after you know my options are kinda
0:28:44running out over there rather than them they went to him i dont no one other
0:28:52story I heard and this is from one source and you know I can't verify I
0:28:58don't know I just toss it out there is it possible you know somebody somebody
0:29:01believes it somebody Thomas is that Apple wanted to hire him back they
0:29:10weren't sure exactly what you would say round 2008 2009 but like when Steve Jobs
0:29:14restored the company
0:29:16and they wanted to hire Kevin Lynch then for something and he specifically turn
0:29:22them down for the reason that he thought it would be poor form to leave Adobe for
0:29:27Apple in particular while this there is this major point of contention that he
0:29:32was sort of right in the center during the flood right you know that the
0:29:36flashlight with his fight and he by as much as he would otherwise perhaps
0:29:40entertaining option in like to do it that it would be disloyal maybe you know
0:29:48something like that which if true is sort of commendable and speaks honestly
0:29:52you know I would say speaks to his integrity but I you know is that true I
0:29:56don't know that you know the story is the term for a while something I mean
0:30:02looking more optimistic side if he's loyal and he's you know when he's in the
0:30:09middle of something he's passionate about it those are good signs are good
0:30:12qualities company I mean people change teams all the time
0:30:21let me take a break here and thank our first sponsor our first sponsor is an
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0:32:27here's another one did you see the thing only yesterday this ABC news story
0:32:37survey that said that the iPhone is what it would do they say that it was no
0:32:44longer as inspiring as other phones it's just a phone it just seemed like such a
0:32:49phony metric of appeal and they just passed this long and so a reader it was
0:32:56it wasn't my idea was a DAF reader who who just said hey if you google the
0:33:00company who conducted this survey that part of an advertising agency and if you
0:33:04go and see and Samsung you see that that Samsung's mean advertising in North
0:33:08America so you know it's it's a survey conducted by Samsung's advertising
0:33:14company that the BBC News just passed the law is packed with no mention of the
0:33:17fact that the same status as Samsung's advertising agency and Mike I think
0:33:24about two hours later they added a paragraph like three or four paragraphs
0:33:28down there said that company is a subsidiary of whatever and they're hired
0:33:32by companies like Samsung Google and Microsoft
0:33:39came in by email Milagro ok great in no way out of value didn't look it up quite
0:33:48frankly if I got it I got a survey about a brand being inspired my eyes and
0:33:53delete it but this is what I mean to me this is a big this is more of a story
0:33:57about just the PR industry and just like what they the constant sort of stuff
0:34:04that we get thrown out as journalists you guys must get I get a lot of a lot
0:34:10of you may like this but you must get ten times more than I do because he not
0:34:15only covers way more than Darren barber covers I mean I covered most everybody
0:34:21knows me for cover Apple but even so I mean I think that people know that I'm
0:34:24just one person whereas the daily output it going is just so much greater
0:34:30I can't even imagine how much you get what I mean isn't there a process
0:34:34involved were you at least you look at it and you have to think we'll who who
0:34:38who is saying right now and i mean clearly there is there's also a
0:34:44disconnect between actually like having news judgment here of course when you
0:34:49get a survey never heard of the person you should maybe check and see where
0:34:54these numbers came from the legitimate what they got you know pulled out of
0:34:57thin air but metrics like inspiring just just
0:35:04headline was Apple brand less quotes inspiring survey says and then the
0:35:09opening paragraph said smartphone rival Samsung is now seen as equally quote
0:35:15inspiring in the us- says the survey by consultancy added value like I said what
0:35:23what the hell does inspire me inspired to do what I have no idea to paint an
0:35:31antiabortion headline and then a pro Samsung lead and it's from Samsung's
0:35:37added and it really only took about 45 seconds of googling to do the connection
0:35:45like this it was not like I did any kind of award-winning investigation to
0:35:51uncover this conspiracy
0:35:53the names of the companies and it all comes up like you really i mean is there
0:35:58no suspicion at all as to who is giving these these numbers would be what what
0:36:09do you mean how much how much of what you cover for you do you do you get from
0:36:13specially email that from a PR firm you like like sort of random Lake email for
0:36:23people I don't know kinda thing right
0:36:25oh I don't know probably 50 emails a day from sources that I don't know at all
0:36:38and probably half of those are totally miss targeted like I mean right before
0:36:47we started talking i deleted an email about some website that was talking
0:36:53about how make your work was like a celebrity like last week earlier this
0:37:01week we were all joking about some pitch about some restaurant chain that's also
0:37:05like so much of the stuff that you get a soft target that's not even really talk
0:37:09but I do get you know because I cover ups like that's the biggest thing is I
0:37:13get a lot of email about abs and some of them are totally random pitches and
0:37:17there it's really good stuff but it's just it's definitely hard to draw down
0:37:21and you know i knows when they're just just the pure the volume of wood most
0:37:26you know writers at work on the web get his kind of crazy I would definitely I
0:37:31would agree with that that random at pitches are the one that from me most
0:37:37leads to something that I'll actually linked to an right about you know again
0:37:40most of them no I don't whatever this happens even if it's good I have no
0:37:45interest in
0:37:45does whatever but every once in a while wanna come thru hey that sounds
0:37:50interesting and I will check it out and you know a couple times a week that will
0:37:53lead to but it also reminds me those that it and Jim Dalrymple spoke about
0:38:01this last year at the conference ull in Dublin where he kind of smoke from the
0:38:07perspective of what I run a busy websites Mac and iPhone news here's my
0:38:12tips decides to develop our audience my tips on how to get my attention and and
0:38:17you know one of his big things was keep your email as short as possible and all
0:38:22these PR firm send out these emails battered I don't know 34 pages like if
0:38:26you printed it out there they're enormous they're like almost like si
0:38:29like like what I see on articles as long in order usually do I just hit the down
0:38:33arrow go to the next message like the best ones are just tell me like three
0:38:37sentences about why you might be interested in or out and give me a URL
0:38:40to find out more than ten times more likely to check it out totally agree I
0:38:46mean whenever you know if I get three or four graphs about something and it might
0:38:51actually sound interesting what are the more aggravating things is like okay
0:38:57having to reply and say okay can I get a link I get more information like how do
0:39:03I tried this like absolute calm with you know like a promo code or a link to try
0:39:08something hasn't launched yet that's great because I can just trying to do
0:39:12the back and forth over trying to figure out how to use it and I did thing that
0:39:18gets me as time goes on it does not seem like PR professionals are getting that
0:39:24like they seemed there seems to be a total disconnect between what PR
0:39:29professionals who people pay to sort of help get exposure to their product or
0:39:34service whatever it is
0:39:35versus the mindset of people like you and me who are getting like you said 50
0:39:41emails a day pitching various products and ideas maybe more right that's just a
0:39:47random people I don't know that's not even including people that I dunno and
0:39:52so you know if you spent a minute each day giving it serious minute of
0:39:57consideration to eat pizza comes in europe your you would literally burn up
0:40:00an entire hour of time every single work which is not going to happen you can't
0:40:05spend hours just going through pitches from random people every but yet the PR
0:40:11professional seem to have lost the ability to sort of think about it from
0:40:15our perspective and condense it into look like a teaser he's just two
0:40:19sentences that maybe should catch your attention and the URL and a promo code
0:40:24that to which works way more often than a big long let me tell you
0:40:301500 words about this out and burry burry the actual description in the App
0:40:35in like the 4th paragraph
0:40:42so speaking of PR this is a nice segue John Louie gotta say I hope I'm doing is
0:40:50French justice and a call mice week about it called an alkyl losing the war
0:40:56of words and sort of talking about the recent snowfall shoulders recent
0:41:02interviews about Android on the eve of the galaxy s4 launch and the new product
0:41:09comparison page that Apple has theirs iPhone and there's everything else he
0:41:14seemed a little bit against it thinks it funny doubtful because if you are the
0:41:17market leader you shouldn't stoop to the level of arguing with your opponents in
0:41:23the public and one of the things he sort of got to he didn't he didn't quite come
0:41:30out and say Apple should hire a PR firm but he's sort of seen to insinuate that
0:41:34they shouldn't talked about I think it's Wagner Ekstrom whatever it is with the
0:41:38one that Microsoft is used for decades now six and how successful babe in and
0:41:44and that sort of tactics that these in a footnote in a piece I wrote I just
0:41:49mention that I I think Apple does have a world-class PR firm pages don't they
0:41:54haven't hired one outside the one within the company which i think is a very a
0:41:58polite way to go but you cover more companies than I do and I'm curious if
0:42:03you see it the way I do that Apple has a very unique take on PR vs other very big
0:42:08firms oh absolutely I mean I used to cover more the PC companies so when I
0:42:15covered like dull and HP and Apple they all of them had outside agencies vs
0:42:21apple and yeah apples is definitely different and I think it I think it
0:42:28works for them I mean any journalist that's doubtful PR knows that they can
0:42:34be formidable they gonna get there was was getting out with that ragged would
0:42:42really go after you know people or
0:42:47you know exact competitors are other companies that spoke ill of Microsoft I
0:42:53think he gave like an anecdote about that and I mean I'd in my experience I
0:42:59think that I think that things have changed a little bit with our PR you
0:43:04know since Tim Cook has become CEO but just a little bit and to me that's it
0:43:12doesn't seem like that requires a new home new tactic like what he was
0:43:17suggesting like by going to sit outside firm they are there to have that sort of
0:43:21team of people that are looking out for the the Brandon pushing it
0:43:27journalists and bloggers and I would guess I mean how many people do you
0:43:32think working Apple PR gosh I don't know I mean I think like less than 50 but
0:43:44fifty might not be a bad ballpark number like maybe somewhere between 25 and 50 I
0:43:48guess definitely more than 25 but I think they'd be landing but if you
0:43:54surveyed PR firms nationwide that 25 to 50 PR firm is actually pretty good sized
0:44:01yeah I guess I don't know how large PR firms actually are
0:44:08I don't know you know and I'm sure that the big ones that are truly big and that
0:44:12and that the way that it works at the big ones is that when you have a big
0:44:15account like Microsoft or Dell you've got full-time people you know and so
0:44:21that it's not that individual people who are working on your PR have their
0:44:25attentions her loyalties between different companies but applies if you
0:44:29know I would guess I I feel pretty confident that 25 to 50 range and every
0:44:35single one of them is entirely focused solely apples and apples public
0:44:40relations and I you know a lot of them the ones I i kno are very very bright
0:44:45people and I think they're very very good at their job right and that's what
0:44:50I thought was interesting about the shower incident is before you know and
0:44:56and distally cases like
0:44:59none of them like speak for Apple right like they don't they're not there to be
0:45:02quoted like before it was like Steve smoke and then no one else unless it was
0:45:07like around like a product event or something so I think that's why the
0:45:10shower thing caught so many people who covered appl
0:45:13off guard because that just isn't normal for you know someone that level to just
0:45:20sort of be you know going off on competitors but don't you know
0:45:25definitely don't make the mistake of thinking that it wasn't very very deeply
0:45:30considered you know it's not like the show just got a bug in it but to call
0:45:34the wall street journal and no I mean clear that he contacted several chosen
0:45:39outlets and I get that for sure but on the other hand it's not going to be
0:45:44someone from Apple PR who's going to do the interviewing be quoted its not Katie
0:45:48cotton who's going to go and talk to the wall street journal not Steve Dowling
0:45:52it's gonna be either team cookers shelter and i think thats I think that
0:45:59there's a sort of credibility to that that's kind of mean whether you think
0:46:03that children's comments were wise or not I do think that there's a certain
0:46:09integrity to shoulder saying saying look here I am saying these things it's not
0:46:14just us somebody from PR off the record putting it into a reporter's year and
0:46:22having sources that Apple say this year's feel short going on the record
0:46:25saying here's what I you know I think it's fragmented think that you know I
0:46:30think they're going to be using a year old operating system etcetera etcetera I
0:46:34think that you know here's me saying our numbers show four times more people
0:46:38switch from Android type phone then iPhone to Android
0:46:42so I think that's kind of interesting it is and I when I what I am more
0:46:48fascinated by is like this question is this question of like why does that seem
0:46:53below or something and I i had that reaction to just like guess I like it
0:46:58just it seems somehow like fun kuthe or because of the position that Apple has
0:47:06been in but when you think more about it and you think about other industries
0:47:11why why why shouldn't they be able to defend themselves
0:47:16yeah I think it's I think that this sort of revulsion to it is twofold I think
0:47:20part of it is that Apple's had a couple of years here where their primary
0:47:25products which I would define as the iPhone and iPad because that's where the
0:47:28growth is not swear by far the most you know that I mean that's the whole story
0:47:33of labs last five years is not that the Mac hasn't been doing great too but
0:47:37let's face it that's the heart and soul the company right now and that they just
0:47:43haven't had serious competition as what's the best product in this category
0:47:47right now for a couple of years and when you don't have competition news no
0:47:53competition to denigrate really and now they do i mean whatever used wherever
0:47:58you think the score is between the iPhone 5 and the Galaxy Poor s
0:48:04whichever one you think is you know right now leading the industry you have
0:48:07to admit it close or closer than it's been ever since the iPhone came out and
0:48:12so I think now they have a target and and the other thing too is it Samsung
0:48:16over the last year has really solidified its lead as Android premiered hardware
0:48:22developer I mean in terms of everything the number of units they sell the
0:48:25profits the revenue there is no metric that anybody else making Android devices
0:48:29really compare Samsung right and without a rival there's nobody to you know say
0:48:35these things about and now they do out one and now they're doing it I think the
0:48:38second factor is that in the past it was always Steve Jobs who would stick the
0:48:43knife in the opponent's back and
0:48:46and eighty was Steve Jobs and had you know this sort of our about him this
0:48:51reputation as you know he's Steve Jobs you know he's going to say these things
0:48:56and be he really was good at it too late she was just so good at the sort of
0:49:04backhanded compliment or the sort of you know even if it wasn't even a backhanded
0:49:09compliment if it was just an outright denigration doing it definitely right I
0:49:14sort of don't I don't envy Phil Schiller having to to sort of follow in his
0:49:18footsteps right and I can I can't even see the knife into seems like he just
0:49:26comes across as too nice yeah and make sure to I don't know there was a mean
0:49:31streak to Steve Jobs that the other day at the the rest of the company doesn't
0:49:35seem to have liked among his many guess he's so good at something one of the
0:49:40things that steve Jobs was just truly heinous act was trashing his competition
0:49:45like he was even good at trashing the competition at next one next was really
0:49:53struggling I mean in the market I mean he would trashed like let's say son and
0:49:59you'd listen to me think wow that's a real burnett's great and then you look
0:50:02at the numbers and son was telling you know forty times more work stations the
0:50:06next was but like his trashing of Sun just seemed like he was good at I don't
0:50:13think sure that it but he's still you know it's still it's like you're you're
0:50:16the new shooting guard after michael jordan retired no matter how big or a
0:50:22well let me take a break I mean do the second sponsor break and i wanna talk to
0:50:30you about a new game for iPhone called ridiculous fishing you seem to know
0:50:37ridiculous fishing her ridiculous fishing and it's brand new and it came
0:50:45out and its way at the top of the charts on that story and I it sound so stupid
0:50:53glad it's one of those games that it really is very addictive and I i
0:50:57double-checked I ran past my son Jonas whose 9 you spend a lot more time on
0:51:02iPhone games in me bout for it as well and said yes definitely the gist of the
0:51:08game is your fishermen you past the line line goes down and you tilt the phone to
0:51:13move the wine back and forth as it sinks and so it's sort of like a doodle jump
0:51:18like mechanic retook the fun of it as it goes down you want to avoid fish because
0:51:23if you catch a fish then it'll start going up you want to go as deep as
0:51:26possible so on the way down to avoid fish and it gets to the bottom and it
0:51:29comes up and then as it comes up you want to catch fish then you want to tell
0:51:33the other way and catches then when it gets to the top and this is this is
0:51:37hardly knew I was going to crack up you think that's it that's the game you've
0:51:42got X number of fish and if you get a taxi gone no instead when you come when
0:51:45they come to the top the fishermen throws all the fish in the air intakes a
0:51:49shotgun and then you just shoot the fish in there so it's a three step process to
0:51:55each level the line goes down you avoid finished line goes up you catch fish and
0:51:59then the fish and it's really kind of money that is very much like to jump
0:52:07totally one hand able to real good game we play with one hand almost yeah it's
0:52:13really just tilting and then when the fiscal year you just happen to shoot it
0:52:18really is a lot of fun and you can find out more ridiculous fishing dot com
0:52:24there's no dashes or anything just ridiculous fishing guide com or of
0:52:28course you can go to the AppStore and search for ridiculous fishing and a
0:52:33trust me it is it is very very close and very funny it's a really fun game so go
0:52:40check it out
0:52:40trust me it's worth your attention so two more things is to new apps that came
0:52:49out this week and one is the first one has to do this is Apple's podcasts at
0:52:56the new version is version 1.2 is a bunch that it's almost like maybe they
0:53:06could have called it 2.0
0:53:07I think I don't know I mean what's the big thing that's new is that you take it
0:53:11from there is the building to create playlists and getting the call like my
0:53:18stations and then there's
0:53:20thinking as well it's funny that you bring up the 2.0 thing is we actually
0:53:25we're Anna I read a review of the apt one of my freelance writers I was
0:53:33thinking I was like I don't usually do reviews of 1.2 updates but it's the
0:53:39invite because it had so much so much missing to begin with but it it
0:53:44warranted it I think you and on the flip side on the surface level they took out
0:53:51the whole reel-to-reel tape here comes that you are more thick interface I mean
0:53:58this is you know a few more things and is you know we can argue for hours and
0:54:02hours but nothing was more school market I mean truly in any sense of the way the
0:54:08word as any meaning at all the tape to tape reel to reel visual interface in
0:54:13the podcast app was either school morphism at its best or worse and that's
0:54:19gone and so it's easier I think it's pretty easy to read into this that this
0:54:23is the forestall is gone
0:54:26Jony ive is in charge of the user interface where they've added a lot of
0:54:31actual utility and taken out something that was truly a money superfluous cuz
0:54:39it's almost too judgmental but ornamentation yes even if you loved it
0:54:44even if you loved the real you really have to admit it wasn't a usability
0:54:48think it was truly just warning that that's exactly how I read it to my eye
0:54:54it was sorta like all right what can we fix what needs to be fixed I certainly
0:54:59quickly and this seems like a perfect example of the kind of the new regime
0:55:06that's going on with software design their right it's very much and to me you
0:55:13know and I would guess for most people who listen to the show to me it's a very
0:55:16good sign and I think it's unsurprising but it still is
0:55:20good time because I you know that some of the missing creatures in the podcast
0:55:24app when they first shipped it we're like real head scratchers like the
0:55:29people who made this app actually listen to podcasts yet it seems like not the
0:55:37kind I don't I didn't use a podcast episode work from home and I'm always
0:55:42here but I mean if you like the basic basic things that you would need a
0:55:47tablet that all the other competitors to the podcast app it was just sort of mind
0:55:51blowing that they were there and you know I'm sure that there's a ton of
0:55:56people who do use it because you know it is Apple's one and that but I i would
0:56:01guess though that the more informed users like you know probably would be
0:56:07good to know be transiting to know what listeners of this show use when they
0:56:11listen to podcasts on my list but I would bet that only a minority used
0:56:15Apple's podcast app because I think the people who listen to this show know
0:56:18about all the other third party apps that are out there that do things that
0:56:22practically speaking or just much more useful like playlists and you know
0:56:28organizing and syncing between devices and stuff like that so I think it's a
0:56:34good deal I think it's a good sign how something is a pretty good sign that
0:56:37it's come out as quickly as it has and that is not something that they were
0:56:42waiting until I was seven or something like that to ya what do you what do you
0:56:48think as far as this was just you know taking away the tape deck thing I
0:56:53thought was just sort of like a small step
0:56:55do you expect more of those small steps in the next version of iOS and iOS 740
0:57:01think it's gonna be something a little more dramatic yeah you know I don't know
0:57:08what to think about that because I sort of thought that this was more emblematic
0:57:12they what we've seen in the podcast out the new version of it to me was when I
0:57:17was sort of expecting to see systemwide not a radical departure or serious term
0:57:22but just a minor course correction that were just a few
0:57:26Apple's just a few degrees off the proper course and we need to know just a
0:57:31little bit in the right direction because otherwise you'd be going a few
0:57:35degrees of course over time obviously lost and I that's what I sort of
0:57:39expected something like this but now I don't know because I kind of feel it may
0:57:46be just at the not talking about like the concept of Iowa's like that why I
0:57:54like a wire frame design level I don't think that's gonna change but maybe at
0:57:58the chrome is gonna change
0:58:00system wide just to make it look and I kind of feel that that's almost
0:58:06necessary given perception out there that that iOS is sort of stagnating yeah
0:58:13there was a camera where it was was it this week about how the Grand Apple's
0:58:23grid layout about which is old and boring and need to be change its me but
0:58:30that's absolutely you can improve and you can update and make it feel fresh
0:58:37and make it feel new without like complete copying like and Reuters
0:58:42building yeah I don't think I don't know what they can do visually to make it
0:58:47look new without really changing the basic concepts of the home screen
0:58:51because the home screen is so simple but I do think that that's something that
0:58:56that is off-base cause I feel like part of the reason that so many millions of
0:59:02regular normal users feel that their iPads or iPhones are like ice cold glass
0:59:10of water on a hot day is because it's so conceptually simple there is no
0:59:15confusion
0:59:16you know you're either on the home screen and you launch it out at that one
0:59:21button and you go back to them and that's it
0:59:24there is nothing else to the system like the app itself may be very complicated
0:59:28might be very simple but in terms of managing the system itself on screen
0:59:33full of apps or you're in a nap and you want but away from I don't think I think
0:59:38that's
0:59:39brilliant and I think that would be foolish to to complicate that in a way
0:59:44yeah I think some people equate simple with boring but I think those same
0:59:50people who tend to think that are a little more technically savvy and I
0:59:54don't know they like change or something but you know I think about people like
0:59:57my mom like that's that's here this is made for and she opened up her iPad and
1:00:02you're like just need to know she's an instruction how it works like it just
1:00:05works I i think that they can get a lot of mileage out of the visual update
1:00:12thats like I said really just changing the crop changing the color of status
1:00:17navigation bars in the default buttons maybe redesigning the icon on screen new
1:00:23icons for everything that you know that you know that still the Safari icon but
1:00:27it's a new Safari icon maybe get rid of the glossiness or something like that
1:00:31across all of Apple's built-in apps I think they would get a ton of credit
1:00:35from that from the people who only look at how to use it because it's almost
1:00:40literally what I'm talking about the people want to look at what I was doing
1:00:43surface deep they would be like wow this is what we're talking about iOS 7 is you
1:00:47know all new whereas it really just all new design visual design work not
1:00:53conceptual design like any other words I think I would get a lot is another way
1:01:00to put it is I think I could get a lot more credit in the press for the newness
1:01:05of Iowa 7 through work done by designers in Photoshop through work done by
1:01:11engineers in Xcode just by making things look like a new coat of paint across the
1:01:18US I think they would get a lot more day one day to positive I was certainly like
1:01:25right out of the gate you when you she shuffled off into that room and you
1:01:29could look at stuff for 10 minutes or whatever but you know if it was if there
1:01:35was something you know under the hood that were drastically change for the
1:01:39worse like come out just in time to take longer for that the bubble up right but
1:01:47still bubble up eventually
1:01:49right whereas something that looks new just on the surface it would already
1:01:53start making news before the keynote was over because people would have been
1:01:59reading the live blogs and seen the slides that somebody posted live and
1:02:03already the news stories would come out that you know Johnny ideas put his stamp
1:02:07on I was and I think the podcast app is a perfect example of that where I saw
1:02:12more coverage just like by searching for articles about the new podcast headline
1:02:15I saw more articles about the removal of the tape to tape thing then about the
1:02:20features which are little bit more esoteric and you kind of have to
1:02:23understand out podcasting works even get why they're appealing maybe depends on
1:02:30what blogs you read i guess i guess i feel you're probably reading people that
1:02:34you know a little more time actually knows more than it is right well I don't
1:02:41think you have to do well but maybe they'll be a nice feel like that is sort
1:02:46of it's the way that everybody likes to be drawn to a nice and 16 narrative in
1:02:52part of that narrative is that forced all got forced out of Apple because he
1:02:57was in favor of an obscure morphism and Jony ive is not you know way more
1:03:02complicated that's overly simplified but its but it is nice and neat and the
1:03:09other thing is that there is a kernel of truth to that there's you know that it's
1:03:13certainly not the whole story but it actually is you know it's one of the
1:03:17straw that broke the camel's back against forced all I could think there's
1:03:23no doubt that the tape to tape thing was a borstal approved design and the
1:03:27removal of it is clearly sort of it
1:03:29Jony ive approved and designs I can't wait to see what he does when he gets
1:03:35his hands on passbook I wonder I see I wonder about that I don't know I think
1:03:41Press book is kind of appropriately designed to look like the one that i
1:03:46think is more might be marcia is Game Center which is very heavily
1:03:51the crime that the chroma the app is very heavily yeltsin the other
1:03:59real-world textures and stuff like that right now we pass but I meant the you
1:04:04know when you put one of the tickets in the trash right right right the yeah I
1:04:10wonder if you like it or not about thank you I mean I remember forestall
1:04:14demonstrating that like a WC last year and he got a kick out of that but it
1:04:19certainly is one of those things that just like we're doing this because we
1:04:23can look at all so this is but it doesn't need and I will see and that's
1:04:31when I was 14 I don't know maybe maybe that stays though because there is in a
1:04:35certain way some amount of whimsy is appropriate right like the way that the
1:04:39Mac always has had a trash can on the desktop and then when you put an item in
1:04:44the trash can the trash can get that right you know it's always been once a
1:04:49call and it's always been part of the charm so again that's what I mean about
1:04:53it being a course correction not like an about face turn the ship around hundred
1:04:57and eighty degrees like I don't think they're going to get rid of all the
1:05:00whimsy I think that it's they just need to dial back a little bit the past book
1:05:07shredders could that's a good example of I wonder where johnnie i've seen because
1:05:13there is like when you overpass there's the trash so you know why don't you just
1:05:19like you could it would I don't know crumpled up then go away but just like
1:05:26just seems like extra you know more than necessary but like yes like if they're
1:05:37gonna I mean if if there they are going to be doing a course correction to me
1:05:40that seems like a candidate for one of the things they be like alright that's a
1:05:44little much true and it is you know it's one of the things they rehearse those
1:05:51key nodes to death but I do think though that a lot of the time you know they're
1:05:55honest more ways than you think I think that for stalls pleasure in that was
1:06:00truly genuine that he really thought this you know this is great
1:06:03ya know I'm sure did alright so the other Apple wanted to talk about before
1:06:09we wrap up this show is Google keep just announced yesterday is it already is it
1:06:17yesterday i cant we're recording this on Friday at Camp I know own wrote a piece
1:06:22about it and Marco responded in arms already responded to Marcos response but
1:06:26i think thats all happened within a day
1:06:27yeah I'm had some thoughts now either if it was Wednesday yeah well either way it
1:06:36was written in a nutshell Google keep is Google's take on ever I think that's
1:06:42fair to say yes it's you know your note pictures I forget what other attachments
1:06:49they let you do and I would say the incident response was it was funny
1:06:56because I knew what I wanted to say and I was busy at the time you headed it
1:06:59took me a couple hours to me to it and everybody had already beat me to it
1:07:03which is you know oh great here's something new from the makers of Google
1:07:08Reader right I trust that to be around which i think was own steak right yeah
1:07:15exactly it's like the trust as I may not exactly but that's part of his point is
1:07:19like the trust is broken and I guess I'm sort of a sort of had that same attitude
1:07:25like I was one of the people that I was surprised at how I felt about them and
1:07:32in Google Reader like I thought more emotion than I would think about a free
1:07:36service being cancelled but it's because it's related to how I do my job and I
1:07:41think
1:07:41way to like that actually impacts me but something like like you never know or a
1:07:48keeper you're like stuff you actually want to keep I get to see the sort of
1:07:52like ironic that that's the first after they bring out after killing reader very
1:07:58personal and it's like stuff that you actually want to be around and you want
1:08:03to know where it is in one place and you you know it's a sort of thing where
1:08:07you're going to get invested in it like if you use an app like that
1:08:10that you know right it becomes part of your daily routine in system and yes to
1:08:17their credit there's like an export so you can use Google keep a month and if
1:08:21you decide I don't like this app you can export everything I don't forget what
1:08:24format it spits it out and that's that's great and you did not to use it if it
1:08:29didn't have an export feature but let's just say eighteen months from now they
1:08:34pull the plug on keep the same way they did reader it's not that you can get
1:08:38your data it's that your your habits are broken if you were devoted user of the
1:08:44app now you've gotta look for something new your habits are all broken you've
1:08:47got to find a new app you've got to find a way to import the stuff you exported
1:08:51etcetera and so forth right and going back to those charges of you know what
1:08:58if Apple did it to Parker see why I don't think there's a good example for
1:09:02that I can people you know I've seen some of the people starting at me and my
1:09:06emails point out things like you know why should I trust something from the
1:09:10makers of paying or mobile need you know web sharing or something like that and I
1:09:19think the difference with Google Reader is that the products that Apple has
1:09:23canceled have been ones that were I think generally everybody trees were
1:09:27failures and pink is a perfect example right when they pulled the plug on
1:09:31paying I mean I don't know that I saw one articles from owning the demise you
1:09:36know I'm sure that there were some people of course there's somebody out
1:09:39there who really loved him I don't know who you are but somebody without the
1:09:44right you can't have it you can't be a company as big as Apple and not have
1:09:47somebody love everything you do no matter how big her tits but when picking
1:09:51up pulled everybody was like well I didn't see that coming thing was just
1:09:54didn't work out and you know and MobileMe is maybe not as perfect example
1:09:59I know that there were some people using the web sharing features that iCloud
1:10:02doesn't have that now they have to find some other way to store their family
1:10:06photos or something like that way they could be shared but even there it wasn't
1:10:09like a beloved product where is Google Reader is truly beloved by at least
1:10:15hundreds of thousands of people
1:10:17yeah that's the difference I agree I don't think
1:10:22think that Apple made the choice in killing off sharing with me or being
1:10:30because suddenly like it didn't didn't necessarily fit with what they wanted
1:10:38but had a big following right so if Apple comes out with some new after
1:10:42service and you know you have to decide am I gonna become a user of this and
1:10:47devote my time to learning and they had it certainly part of it is you know
1:10:52you've got to think what is this thing you know is as Apple going to stay with
1:10:56this and they don't stay with everything nobody stays with everything but I think
1:10:59at least without bail you can assume if its popular they're going to keep it
1:11:03around right whereas that's the thing that's the thing that I feel like the
1:11:08people who want to defend Google over pulling the plug on Google Reader don't
1:11:12quite get the thing that has people upset is that it's seemingly popular
1:11:17enough maybe told that it wasn't a huge part of the bottom line but there seems
1:11:21like the popularity of Google Reader outweighs the cost to Google of just
1:11:26keeping it going maintaining it let alone investing in actually improving if
1:11:31they just had kept it going as it was then let it languish like that how much
1:11:36would it cost them right and I think would people will more
1:11:41is they look at they look
1:11:45you know Google trying to push people toward Google+ which I don't use I don't
1:11:51like no ones on it what i mean those are for everybody I don't you just try to
1:11:59push people just product that is not nearly as popular when people see that
1:12:03connection I think that's probably why there's two yeah and the other factor to
1:12:09include that's what they want I guess and i cant do you think that's a big
1:12:13factor in their decision to pull the plug on cool readers that they somehow
1:12:16want to just keep putting more carrots out there to draw people to Google+
1:12:20Google+ is not an RSS reader I think we're the only way they could work as
1:12:26its replacement in any way for reader is it more website started publishing their
1:12:33content to Google+ but you don't do that through RSS you have to you know it's
1:12:39instead of using this open format RSS that you just put on your site and then
1:12:43anybody can read it and parse it and then you know people read it parts of it
1:12:47thousand different ways they're asking you to to become Google+ publishers who
1:12:55are publishing it
1:12:55your stuff only through this proprietary you know social network which you know I
1:13:01I have no interest in doing with your entire body I I don't think I've ever
1:13:04gotten a single request from somebody to publish during fireballs you don't
1:13:10Google+ for your your blog content but you've got a friend in on Google+ or
1:13:17added to the proper I created an account the day they came out and got them back
1:13:25and they spoke to me it's like dark matter is I have 50,000 I think I think
1:13:3250,000 followers of the daring fireball account on Twitter which is just an
1:13:37automated feed of content from Darren fireball I mean that's pretty
1:13:44significant daily basis
1:13:46Twitter links are by far and away the biggest source of incoming traffic to
1:13:50doing terrible really other than just hits to the home page from people who
1:13:54just you know go to the browser and just hit the home page
1:13:57seconded by far and away the biggest refers Twitter the other things
1:14:03interesting by Google keep to me is they don't have an iOS app do it's a web of
1:14:09course from Google so that you know there's a web interface that you can use
1:14:12from a web browser but the only happy his friend right well I mister I'm
1:14:19assuming that would change seems like they would eventually bring it to us I
1:14:24guess so but it is you know it's an interesting this is MOA is finding a
1:14:33finding a way to bring their stuff to Apple's popular when they can but I
1:14:38think over the last couple of years though they've done an awful lot of
1:14:41stuff even though they are the company behind and great they've done a lot of
1:14:44stuff iOS first like didn't they have the Gmail app for iOS before or at least
1:14:49the one for iOS got better before the 14 Android one friend rate was missing a
1:14:54lot of features an eyeless got it first came out a couple of absurd I think
1:14:59we're better first or at least came out at the same time on iOS and Android like
1:15:05there you know and and a couple people have pointed out recently that Google is
1:15:09the single most popular this measured by like downloads third-party developer in
1:15:14the App Store oh yeah I haven't seen that number but I mean I believe it just
1:15:19maps alone I i yet maps may be just the top three like maps I guess chrome and
1:15:25you know that came out our YouTube I don't know maybe one of the new your
1:15:31YouTube and yeah you to YouTube Gmail are you baby just YouTube in that saw
1:15:37yeah but I
1:15:43I don't know I just do you think Google keep to me is it I looked at my watch
1:15:47the video just looks like it has a weird interface doesn't it didn't makes it
1:15:51seem like the type of thing that should be super simple are you just make a note
1:15:55attached a photo and it should be like that list of things and instead it's
1:16:00like this weird almost like Windows Phone my list of where grid that I don't
1:16:06understand the order is just the way it on the web interface or that I'm good
1:16:11and right up which I said ok I don't know weird cocks convoluted interface
1:16:17for something that should be super simple I don't have a use an Android
1:16:21phone since the G one that once again I have a phone I don't know so it does it
1:16:31seem really good fit in with the latest version of Android or not he thought it
1:16:36was just seemed weird even compared to that just seemed weird compared to that
1:16:40because it didn't seem like it arranges the items in the list seems like it
1:16:44ranges of integrated somehow which doesn't make any sense to me but i dont
1:16:47maybe I'm wrong place I'm curious to see whether it's going to be ahead or not I
1:16:51don't know I'm very I don't know what it is but I have a poor track record of
1:16:58predicting the successive products are usually my my my my basic ideas do I get
1:17:05it I get the idea so like I thought I predicted that Google Wave was gonna be
1:17:09a done because I saw the demo i watch their presentation I don't understand
1:17:13what you're supposed to do it alone right and I you know and I thought if I
1:17:19don't understand what you're supposed to do with this I don't see how it's going
1:17:21to be successful and it wasn't successful I'd when Google+ lost I
1:17:26thought I don't understand what you're supposed to use this for why you would
1:17:30use it instead of you know Facebook or Twitter and you know it seemingly is you
1:17:35know I don't think it's quite like Google Wave died but it doesn't seem to
1:17:39have caught on like they were hoping
1:17:41Google keep I understand what you're supposed to do it I do understand the
1:17:45idea of having a nap restore your notes in your pictures and stuff like that
1:17:49stuff you want to remember later but I don't understand why you'd want to use
1:17:54this app instead of something else that I also feel like it's an example Google
1:18:07sort of being like Microsoft Apple where if anybody has any success in something
1:18:12Google wants you know so evernote is apparently very successful I'm a song
1:18:16like a business week story where they were I forgot how many users they're
1:18:19adding a day but it's astounding 200,000 users today or something like that
1:18:25never raised a lot of money and have a lot of people paying for the pro service
1:18:29and stuff like that so I feel like Google's I while there's a company
1:18:33that's doing really well let's let's try to put them out of business
1:18:38I mean shouldn't shouldn't like they're not protecting well maybe not maybe
1:18:43that's not a bit you know I'm not even I i'm not saying it's a bad thing and
1:18:47that's how competition works but I do worry though that it's a replay that
1:18:51Google doesn't the worry is that it's like reader because Goolsbee model is
1:18:55always do it for free and that really sometimes can be hard to compete with
1:19:01great tits nobody else like presumably that's but the pro accounts that you
1:19:07know that ever know needs to have a certain percentage maybe only 3 45
1:19:11percent of the users paying for the pro service and if Google can come in and
1:19:18really soak up the market with Google keep where everybody is free and then
1:19:22everybody else gets out of the business then all the sudden two years ago if
1:19:26they pull the plug on cool keep Evernote not even around it right but I mean if
1:19:32Apple has to do that to some extent to rate yeah definitely you know a lot of
1:19:39what Apple does is not necessarily free services but it's free stuff built into
1:19:43the OS right I mean like FaceTime for example where he had Skype but they made
1:19:48a different product for free right or I message
1:19:52compared to things like whatsapp all the other various cross-platform text
1:19:58messaging services and many maps obviously I mean though that absolutely
1:20:03free
1:20:04but right although with maps the competition is specifically against
1:20:08other entrenched map providers who are also giving their maps out for free so
1:20:14it's not quite like Apple maps dinner a market where people were trying to make
1:20:17money whereas like iMessage definitely came into a market where they were upset
1:20:22you that the buyer paid you know to get out of the ad yet do you know pay $0.99
1:20:27or whatever for enacted that did it without so maybe I don't know that's all
1:20:40I've got you think so we covered a lot
1:20:45yeah it's a good show thank you Erika you're welcome thanks for having me on
1:20:50this is great and you know maybe if there's an Apple event soon maybe I'll
1:20:54see you soon
1:20:55just a funny thing there can I always joke about as we both live in
1:21:00Philadelphia and we tend to only see each other when California at outlets
1:21:05next time next time you have me on it if you have me on a live show like hop
1:21:15singer something very silly we should we could we should have to think about that
1:21:21but that would just be so much easier though to do that what do you think that
1:21:28we should think about that I have you can you can verify floor for fans of the
1:21:38day this is my favorite my favorite part world but so do you do which is good I
1:21:47have to say it was better than I thought it would be I mean just because all the
1:21:52hype and sort of my understanding of the general weirdness
1:21:56about it and kind of a cruise ship to jump through to get in I was pleasantly
1:22:01surprised by what I not only what a great experience it was like once you're
1:22:04in but how good the drinks are you can kind of say like the drinks are good but
1:22:10until you have them they're just i mean I don't know I have not found a place
1:22:17that makes better drinks no I haven't gone anywhere and to me that thing about
1:22:22the whole craft cocktail movement is that so many places you think would have
1:22:27great drinks because it looks nice and it looks like somebody spent so much
1:22:30time designing the place coming up with the team in coming up with a menu and
1:22:35you try the drinks and it is terrible to me it's almost like a hipster look at
1:22:41what I enjoy drinking this thing that tastes like bong water and no I don't
1:22:46think there's a lot of pretentiousness pretentiousness on the outside and with
1:22:53the locked door and you have a way to get in and all of this and there's this
1:22:58fussiness all the rules yeah there's rules and stuff like that and it puts up
1:23:02this red flag and you think you're gonna get you know these drinks that taste
1:23:05like bong water something like that or you know here's a drink that tastes like
1:23:0930 cigars at the bottom of it and instead the drinks are so simple and
1:23:14unpretentious and just delicious yet they're genuinely good and I i think
1:23:19also there's sort of a little bit of intimidation factor is you think like oh
1:23:24maybe I'm not I don't know as much about drinking certain types of alcohol or
1:23:28whatever but they're good even drink that I'll call you might not normally
1:23:32drink they're really good
1:23:34yeah and the other thing too is once you were in and you listen to the rule may
1:23:40be a red flag is up to you think this place is hipster central I'm not going
1:23:43like this once you're in no the customer service is extraordinary
1:23:47it's so yeah we're all they really want is for you to be happy with your drinks
1:23:52and I have never seen a place where I'm more often if I try something new they
1:23:57like come back and do you like it and you know seriously you know I got taken
1:24:01off on taking up the bill
1:24:04or whatever like what everyone I do you like it I mean I know I love you sure
1:24:09cuz we really want you to love this great yeah it's also here's a tip I went
1:24:17there on New Year's Eve was no one there so I mean literally the quietest I
1:24:23should say no one there probably like five other couples there but if you want
1:24:26a quiet New Years Eve in philadelphia think its way to go
1:24:30it's amazing you know we thought about going on do you see instead we just
1:24:33stayed home but it's funny cuz if we would have got out music that we would
1:24:36have been that would have it was aight I was worried it was gonna be like pack
1:24:41240 people that's why we thought we'd like we'll just try this and this is
1:24:48definitely the right choice you know why I think the reason it was quite an uzi
1:24:52just too many people who want to have a raucous and there's no way to leave is
1:24:58ever gonna let things get out of control
1:25:00you know what that's true right so people who know that they want to have a
1:25:08big lad news even if they've ever been saying they know they're not going to
1:25:11get away with it there so they didn't get any other show no worries me I'll I
1:25:15would like a quite literally the countdown to the night was like I heard
1:25:19one of the bartenders go like 430 quiet and like literally one couple clapped
1:25:25was very cool that's great I'm so glad to know really kind of felt like I
1:25:30missed out on New Year's Eve yeah we'll have to see I bet there's zero chance
1:25:35that we will let us do it she would do it like five o'clock or something you
1:25:40know I don't know what to say that would be fantastic to be a great idea
1:25:45all right thank you again Erica this is a great show and i'm ok bye