The Talk Show

35: Bozos and BlackBerrys

 

  erica Ogg welcome to the talk-show thank you glad to be here so I don't know that [TS]

  there's a lot of big news this week although it may be that Kevin Lynch [TS]

  thing is but there's a lot of little news this week and one that just came [TS]

  out today and I'm to me this is fascinating it is the story that Eric [TS]

  Schmidt chairman and former CEO of Google still uses a blackberry that that [TS]

  is somewhat surprising did you see this [TS]

  yeah I did see it was yesterday and this morning I think so yeah and it's not [TS]

  like a rumors I like somebody snapped a picture of him and it looked like he was [TS]

  using a blackberry was like on stage at some conference and somebody was like [TS]

  what role do you think I great right now I'm sure to follow up question should [TS]

  have been an Android phone [TS]

  well obviously that's what you would think is to be a team player you would [TS]

  think the chairman of Google would use some sort of Android phone probably you [TS]

  would think probably a nexus i mean Nexus 4 yeah I mean you think he'd be [TS]

  carrying you know the best that his company has to offer and to me it so to [TS]

  me there's a twofold intrigue here is one he's not using the company's phone [TS]

  which is you know it's not like it's brand new it's not like it's the year [TS]

  one of Android and he still needs XYZ from blackberry because it's an [TS]

  established platform which is semi kind of understandable it's you know the [TS]

  first hundred times cannot make 2008 it's it's like you're five and the [TS]

  second thing is blackberry really like I would almost be in fact I would be I [TS]

  wouldn't I don't know that I would make fun of them or maybe I'd make fun of me [TS]

  a lot less if he was using sand I know I mean I would think I mean if he wasn't [TS]

  using Android I would automatically think that he was using an iPhone [TS]

  because you just would think that in today's age you would want features that [TS]

  the old blackberries died and I presume that the one day I don't know I presume [TS]

  it's not the brand new z10 modern blackberry we're talking about the old [TS]

  one that's just bbm messages and phone calls [TS]

  yeah it's hard to believe that most people they could have the excuse right [TS]

  is like oh it's with the aidid guys at my company make me use [TS]

  but that argument that are not just doesn't seem like that would stand up [TS]

  for him well and because everybody knows the people that Google read everybody I [TS]

  know what Google uses either Android or and I of course because they want to be [TS]

  on the web all the time and they want to be using apps right and it just bring [TS]

  mine and I'm gonna keep moving back to this is is you know is this being fair [TS]

  is this what I would do if it where is this what we would say if it was [TS]

  somebody an apple or something like that and so I'll give an example of that and [TS]

  it's widely known that when Apple acquired next and the next executive [TS]

  team sort of person took over Apple in 1997 that at least for most of ninety [TS]

  seven I'm not sure when he switched but at least from us 297 even though he was [TS]

  dead [TS]

  interim CEO or even before he was interim CEO is still very very [TS]

  influential at Apple because he'd come back Steve Jobs didn't use a PowerBook [TS]

  he used like I think it was a ThinkPad running next really yet another but that [TS]

  makes some amount of sense though where it's not necessary okay so he wasn't [TS]

  quite being a team player but I think the gist of the situation was hey are [TS]

  you know are being Apple are OS has really fallen behind technically we need [TS]

  something new and new next generation thing so in a sense he was using [TS]

  something that was more like what Apple's future was about then using a [TS]

  PowerBook [TS]

  it wasn't necessarily politically problematic that he was using a ThinkPad [TS]

  running open so right and you can you can kind of see it like you probably [TS]

  design wise he probably gravitated towards something like to think that was [TS]

  really good for what he needed to do with the computer at the time right and [TS]

  I saw I would say would be more like the equivalent of an executive at Google [TS]

  we're using a blackberry in 2008 right that Android was new we've only just [TS]

  come out with the first one it doesn't do everything we need yet [TS]

  but we're working hard to make sure that it's going to be better than this this [TS]

  old thing that I like I don't think it's the same thing yeah I agree it's that's [TS]

  mysterious I would really love to hear his explanation for that it had and i [TS]

  cant stop laughing like I wonder and wonder how many Google services use [TS]

  those black crimes your Google search works is fine but I wonder how much else [TS]

  I'm a guess you can get your email but that's kind of the point the BlackBerry [TS]

  right right so the big news of the week the Big Apple news of the week is that [TS]

  Apple has hired from Adobe former Derby CTL Kevin Lynch right and you think this [TS]

  is a terrible idea well I wouldn't go so far as to say that I guess I should tone [TS]

  down my posts ever so slightly I get anything I maybe I miss the word might [TS]

  and the headline where I had exhibit a in the case that Kevin Lynch is a bozo [TS]

  about higher I should have maybe said might be a bozo about higher because I [TS]

  don't know I mean maybe the guys gonna turn out and do a fantastic job whatever [TS]

  hard to do but the truth is for the last I don't know five years everything that [TS]

  I've read and followed about chemical engineer has been to me backwards [TS]

  thinking it's not just the flash thing either but the flash thing has a major [TS]

  part of it and I haven't seen much that was that was really in his favor [TS]

  yeah I mean I've been covering Apple and I haven't paid as much attention to like [TS]

  what he's been doing but I guess from what I have seen like when his when he [TS]

  has said stuff about Apple about you know the whole flash fate I guess I look [TS]

  back on it just seems like a company guy right like that's his job right to do is [TS]

  get Adobe [TS]

  and to promote their technologies and I wonder like what he should have done and [TS]

  that is absolutely and I'm you know I've gotten as much feedback about those few [TS]

  short post I wrote about him as anything i've written recently and you know both [TS]

  pro and con I got an awful lot like you know good for you or you know just [TS]

  speaking her mind I'm this guy who's been saying things about fashion and [TS]

  mobile OS's for a few years to the other side [TS]

  heyy you jump in on these guys know what do you expect him to do he's gotta [TS]

  follow the company's line and you know [TS]

  dobie them and flash and doing their best to try to make it relevant on [TS]

  mobile and and my take on that is that he wasn't just an employee his title [TS]

  wasn't like / evangelist he wasn't good product manager of flash in which case I [TS]

  could totally by the the argument he was just telling the company lied to me and [TS]

  I think this is sort of what I wrote is that as the CTO of Adobe he was the guy [TS]

  painting the company and I just can't help but think that he should have known [TS]

  better [TS]

  yeah I mean it's obviously it's hard to speculate that we don't know what the [TS]

  internal dynamics were at the time you know what how much control you how to [TS]

  read that or how much employees he could have had kids I mean flashes / rate like [TS]

  he couldn't [TS]

  what if you were the one to be like alright actually Steve's rate could he [TS]

  say that could be like quietly start to say that inside but not publicly right [TS]

  and that is why I really do hope that it was clear I magnin write extensively [TS]

  about it but I hope that whatever it was short and sweet and made this point [TS]

  which is that what he said publicly circa 2007 when the iPhone was first [TS]

  announced the first one came out without flash in 2008 when it did really sort of [TS]

  started with the 3G sorted to become a phenomenon like really started to sell [TS]

  rather startling numbers is one thing because you could say look this is early [TS]

  clearly Apple is sort of define the next generation of mobile technology but [TS]

  there's obviously you know everybody else is going to follow [TS]

  let's see how it shakes out maybe flash can be a part of that I whenever he said [TS]

  back then i think is fine weather whatever he believed it out but I think [TS]

  behind the scenes though it should have been a wake-up call and I think that [TS]

  they should have realized that no way was Apple gonna get on board with this [TS]

  that this was a browser and I less was not gonna run ever and that they needed [TS]

  to work on what's next so that Adobe can be relevant to creative professionals [TS]

  creating content for these devices you know I don't know what what you want to [TS]

  say is that like an epic intact but three years is a long time I think in [TS]

  technology usually it's like if you go back three years you can find all sorts [TS]

  of stuff that I can't believe that we had back then and so like the three [TS]

  years between the iPhone and the first iPad to me that's when do we should have [TS]

  at least behind the scenes not necessarily publicly but behind the [TS]

  scenes should have been working on something that was going to work on [TS]

  mobile devices that don't have Flash Player installed and web browser and [TS]

  they did when I had came out in 2010 it was the same song and dance all over [TS]

  again so is your is your concern but you know the Apple has taken a guide that [TS]

  that might come in and just like stick to one thing and not continue their [TS]

  pattern of looking to the next things getting to the puck is going like all [TS]

  about that would sort of a little bit and you know I think that you know I [TS]

  said there's a couple of times and and I think Steve Jobs you know Tim Cook said [TS]

  this explicit I think it was a 2d conference last year but that Steve Jobs [TS]

  changed his mind all the time that the way that he accumulated a great track [TS]

  record of foresight and being right and and creating these innovative products [TS]

  over the course of decades was not by being right every single time he made a [TS]

  decision every step of the way it was by being right a lot of the time and then [TS]

  the time he was wrong [TS]

  revisiting and saying okay that was wrong let's do it the other way [TS]

  was very much came through in the biography to rate is he wasn't afraid [TS]

  someone proved he wasn't afraid to say ok you're right let's do that and so I [TS]

  linked to his name Eric somebody at forbes who had a piece done on bozos [TS]

  what is it what I mean by and that's a word that Steve Jobs is the line that [TS]

  did you know that he thought john sculley wound up being a bozo and you [TS]

  know used the word lie that's why I chose that word and his definition of [TS]

  bozo loosely was someone who is smart but is not as smart as he thinks he is [TS]

  and gets defensive about it and starts rationalizing every decision they've [TS]

  already made to sort of make it seem as though they're always right right so I [TS]

  definitely there's no doubt 0 doubt in my mind that Kevin Lynch's a very smart [TS]

  man I mean you can't get you can't get that high Adobe without being smart and [TS]

  I'm sure that Apple would not hard to see one of those guys who is not as [TS]

  smart as he thinks he is and latches onto an idea doesn't like 0 likes a [TS]

  flash players gonna be a relevant technology and mobile operating systems [TS]

  right I find it interesting I mean I guess this is a point [TS]

  potentially in favor of maybe have him having little humility is he's going [TS]

  from Oct 02 VP [TS]

  I mean like I think that says something about what he thinks he's capable of [TS]

  what he can offer Apple yeah that is a very good point because at Apple Apple [TS]

  doesn't really have the c-level executives at most companies do I think [TS]

  they only have to right now thats Tim Cook CEO and Peter Oppenheimer CFO who I [TS]

  think they're both like legally obligated by the SEC to have people with [TS]

  those titles like you have to have a CFO I believe other than that there are no [TS]

  other there's no chief white bike officer of anything like obviously when [TS]

  when cook stepped up there is no COO anymore right and that's interesting to [TS]

  them didn't replace him as CEO there is a senior vice president of operations [TS]

  but he didn't get the COO title you know and Phil Schiller is not chief marketing [TS]

  officer he's you know senior vice versa senior vice president is as high as you [TS]

  can go up or other than to BC and he's not a senior vice president I did their [TS]

  executives page where they show that executive leadership of the company only [TS]

  list the senior vice presidents it doesn't like so Kevin Lynch won't be [TS]

  listed there which is interesting because it's definitely a couple 0 CT 0 [TS]

  right but it's interesting I was talking with somebody I forget who on Twitter [TS]

  and they pointed out that at this point Apple is so much bigger than it does it [TS]

  even being quote unquote a mere vice president at a pool actually might be a [TS]

  bigger deal than being CTO of Adobe which is kind of hard for me to wrap my [TS]

  head around because I've been following both of these companies for so long I [TS]

  remember when Adobe was bigger than Apple at least you know bite stock [TS]

  prices stuff like that so it's kind of funny for me to think about it that way [TS]

  like I still kind of see adobe is one of Apple's peers but they really really [TS]

  aren't any well I'm gonna talk about your company right there are few [TS]

  companies that are apples pears no more but it's weird it's still kind of hard [TS]

  for me to get my head around that year [TS]

  like when I think about Microsoft and I still think of Microsoft instantly I [TS]

  think of them as being a much bigger almost bullying company that Apple but [TS]

  they're not they're smaller by any measure so here's a question what do you [TS]

  think Kevin Lynch is going to be doing it up that's what i was gonna ask you I [TS]

  don't know I feel like that's the big mystery well I mean that he was working [TS]

  on cloud stuff so I think that would be interesting obviously that's an area [TS]

  that Apple needs you know some help with an area that's like extreme focus for [TS]

  them so I don't know I am really curious like how can I like how it went down and [TS]

  why they hired him like they hire him because he realized he wasn't gonna go [TS]

  any further and Adobe and he was like hey and now available or do they go [TS]

  after him and that I think that's an interesting distinction just because [TS]

  they need someone to fill position and they didn't hire they didn't promote [TS]

  from within or they had to go outside [TS]

  that's that's what I'm I think that would determine more the answer to my [TS]

  question there's a couple of mysteries about how many apples always mysteries [TS]

  because they're never going to really open up but some of the questions I have [TS]

  is why is he in this technology Bob Mansfield technology division which you [TS]

  know on paper they say it's about semiconductors and wireless technology [TS]

  but I think it's more that Bob Mansfield Technology Group is sort of Apple's [TS]

  equivalent of research and development maybe like their equivalent of Google [TS]

  acts where it's like next-generation technology period because one of the [TS]

  reasons I think that and I think they gave it this really plain description of [TS]

  wireless and semiconductors because anything that Apple might possibly be [TS]

  working on is going to involve semiconductors and wireless technology [TS]

  like there is no possible taking device that they're making it doesn't involve [TS]

  those things [TS]

  yeah it's actually kind of funny when you think about it that way right i mean [TS]

  these are the guys shrinking the systems on a chip these are the guys getting [TS]

  wireless stuff that uses less power and has the most bandwidth as possible [TS]

  etcetera but that's anything up on my right and didn't when when they hired [TS]

  Mansfield backer whenever they get new position is not what they said that he [TS]

  would be working on movie apple into new areas I remember I don't have liked the [TS]

  show that there was there was a hint of it there was a hint of it in that PR [TS]

  that it was going to be a sort of like apple just doesn't call much R&D they [TS]

  really don't like and so some people make a stink about it like I know are [TS]

  good mutual friend Dan Lyons is often somehow gloated over the fact that [TS]

  Apple's R&D expenditures as you know divided by their revenue is really small [TS]

  compared to most of their peer companies but I think that simply because Apple [TS]

  doesn't call much of what they do R&D itself is it yeah it really do think so [TS]

  i think that they you know they don't really do much and they never do one [TS]

  thing like steve Jobs was like allergic to was are indeed that's unrelated to [TS]

  specific actual products that they might want to develop like they don't make [TS]

  fantasy products just that aren't rich you know maybe twenty years and I will [TS]

  be able to make this simple just play around with ourselves and make this [TS]

  group that's not realistic in the next couple of years so I think the day [TS]

  they're always working on real projects and I think that what most companies [TS]

  will call Rd they just expenses product about what you would think so he's [TS]

  reporting to Bob Mansfield who does something we don't really nobody's [TS]

  really sure what he does but he's certainly very well-regarded within the [TS]

  company [TS]

  Mansfield right but you would think that if it was about the cloud stuff and this [TS]

  is because of dobie has recently I have what create the Creative Cloud and I [TS]

  forget with the other ones called the Creative Cloud as I can get like a [TS]

  subscription to Photoshop and Illustrator etc without getting a DVD [TS]

  anymore I cannot take a monthly subscription forget their other cloud I [TS]

  think it's the one with I don't know probably Adobe Acrobat Reader and stuff [TS]

  like that and apparently that's gone very well that the people who subscribe [TS]

  to the Creative Cloud pretty happy with it and so there's a lot of speculation [TS]

  that maybe that's basically what Apple hired Lynch to do but if so when he [TS]

  reported a DQ I would say yeah I mean I mean I guess it depends if he was [TS]

  working on something more like infrastructure wise or something that it [TS]

  would seem like technologies with the place to be but if it was more like [TS]

  directly on the actual services then yeah he would make more sense and I [TS]

  think it was John coach Caskey it all things the who you know said that early [TS]

  on he you know had somebody at Apple confirmed to him that his title will be [TS]

  VP of technology new report about Mansfield said that his duties will be [TS]

  coordinating efforts between hardware and software teams across the company [TS]

  which again is sort of like what what what part of what Apple does isn't about [TS]

  coordinating hardware software teams across the company like that so vague [TS]

  that it almost doesn't mean anything [TS]

  yes it's sort of classic Apple classically sort of generic when they [TS]

  have to make a statement on something [TS]

  yeah it sounds like it makes sense then you really think about it you realize [TS]

  that could be almost a mile s could be mad could be both could be iCloud and [TS]

  that's also their theme lately arrayed like ever since the reorg is getting [TS]

  things to work together more closely so fewer fiefdom than even they had before [TS]

  and had relatively few theft of us by the standards of most big company the [TS]

  other thing I've heard and i've heard from my friends at Adobe and the friends [TS]

  I've spoken to Italy maybe they've colored my commentary on this is [TS]

  certainly but [TS]

  they seem to the general consensus of the people I know it is good reasons [TS]

  really yeah what and why that internally the consensus from the people I've [TS]

  spoken to Adobe's that Lynch really was a true believer in flash on mobile that [TS]

  he wasn't just telling the company line that he really really thought that flash [TS]

  was gonna pull this out and still be relevant long-term going into the future [TS]

  and like for example one of my friends cited as like a landmark in this was [TS]

  when version 4.1 of Android last summer which i think came out like July but it [TS]

  was somewhere in the 4.0 4.0 or 4.1 of Android where Google is like you know [TS]

  what we're no longer going to include flash player in the built-in browser in [TS]

  the system and it's not gonna talk and work anymore like they've sort of you [TS]

  know the sort of threw in the towel in that which i think should have been I [TS]

  think everybody else so that is the final nail in the coffin right that that [TS]

  flashes Flash Player is not going to be relevant mobile going forward I thought [TS]

  but apparently inside Adobe he still thought wow now even Google is screwing [TS]

  this up we're still gonna do this but even even Google isn't smart enough to [TS]

  see how how important flash players gonna be on mobile right he was like you [TS]

  know let's move on right and that dog i mean friends I have definitely the lower [TS]

  level they're you know they're they're enlisted men not officers to to use the [TS]

  military analogy but you know that they just don't like it he was holding back [TS]

  the company from doing more relevant work on mobile by insisting that flash [TS]

  player was going to be part of the company's mobile efforts even like last [TS]

  summer that than that yeah that would be concerning it was coming for him and [TS]

  like using the phrase like holding them back like that's that's like a show on [TS]

  the flip side though and i'll settle on the optimistic side that hey don't be [TS]

  worried there's two things I've heard wine and this I heard from [TS]

  first day I heard this from three friends out in all three said more or [TS]

  less the same thing which is I don't know what's the deal I don't know what [TS]

  the deal is with lunch in particular but Bob Mansfield suffers no fools if this [TS]

  guy is a bozo he'll be out of here there's no doubt that Mansfield's gonna [TS]

  do you know if he reports to Mansfield and he's he's not doing great work is [TS]

  going to be gone thank you all very different three different ppl popped up [TS]

  with that and I believe it but I think if that happens it's gonna be [TS]

  embarrassing trouble I kind of feel and especially i sort of thing for Tim Cook [TS]

  because I feel like the John Browett thing is it real [TS]

  has a lot of people you know concern yeah I was just gonna say if you like [TS]

  quicker hook then then cooked on browser that's going to be yeah that'll be very [TS]

  embarrassing and who knows maybe you know we don't know maybe it was entirely [TS]

  Bob Mansfield call Bob you hire you on and Bob Mansfield is single-handedly [TS]

  said I'm this is the guy but it's not going to be read that way if if he did [TS]

  he doesn't work out [TS]

  yeah yeah that's going to undermine confidence in Europe's ability to hire [TS]

  obviously he has one strike against him and like it or not he's under more [TS]

  pressure as the successor to Steve Jobs then even steve Jobs was under Jobs [TS]

  hasn't been executive hires who who did jobs have that Papermaster Papermaster [TS]

  and that was kinda hard to run Mac hardware or all hardware I forget it was [TS]

  it was all hardware he was one from the Czech guy from IBM yeah and he's the guy [TS]

  who got there and he kind of took the axe for the antennagate bright and early [TS]

  seemingly certainly looked like a sort of shooed him away after that so there [TS]

  was also Tim butcher now this is going back almost a decade but temperature [TS]

  where I think it was in charge of Mac hardware but yeah he says here's here's [TS]

  a report from 2005 in [TS]

  neck Observer Mr Butcher was the head of Macintosh hardware engineering for Apple [TS]

  and oversaw the development of the recently introduced Mac Mini he joined [TS]

  Apple in 2007 as vice president of macintosh system development was [TS]

  promoted to senior vice president of Macintosh hardware engineering in May [TS]

  2004 and so to hear the story is that the lawsuit he event ended up after he [TS]

  got fired he filed a lawsuit against Apple alleges that Apple CEO and COO Tim [TS]

  Cook Apple's executive vice president he was executive he wasn't CEO executive [TS]

  vice president of worldwide sales and operations they told Mr Butcher on two [TS]

  separate occasions that he had not failed in his work but never gave [TS]

  specific reasons as to why they wanted to leave the company you're not a [TS]

  failure Mr Jobs reportedly told Mr Butcher early November even God couldn't [TS]

  do have done both of the jobs I think that was because he was doing Mac [TS]

  hardware like iPod hardware two days later according to the lawsuit Mr Jobs [TS]

  told him people sometimes think you are manic-depressive I'm not sure what I'm [TS]

  gonna do but I think I'm gonna have to ask you to leave the company anyway that [TS]

  was a high-level executive obviously did not pan out [TS]

  Papermaster was probably a little bit more damning cause he was I don't even [TS]

  know he was there for a year [TS]

  one-member the whole lawsuit they had like fight IBM on that but what you call [TS]

  it doesn't say company on the non-compete and just looked ugly awful [TS]

  right and it's sort of like cats and a certain point sometimes when you hire [TS]

  executives right away from another company it's almost like a sports trade [TS]

  we've got a comp you know compensate them somehow you just write him a check [TS]

  for someone you know you negotiate something that I got it to pay like a [TS]

  waiver fear something if they have a non-compete I think I am NOT a lawyer in [TS]

  this tough course me but I know california has a really really liberal [TS]

  non-compete clause meaning that there there in favor of employees and [TS]

  employees are are almost unrestricted by non competes in California right you [TS]

  can't really there [TS]

  r their employee favorable laws not employer favorables but I think the [TS]

  problem of paper masters he was coming from IBM in New York where they do and [TS]

  there is you know that was the question whereas I think like with Kevin Lynch [TS]

  with two california companies Adobe and Apple it's no fair game [TS]

  yeah I mean I didn't even mention that now can I don't and I think especially [TS]

  with the statement that Adobe made where they're like yeah he's gone he's going [TS]

  to be like I don't know I don't expect their cause I think it's I think again I [TS]

  could be wrong [TS]

  watch this afternoon 5 o'clock right it's gonna be like a lawsuit shows gonna [TS]

  look stupid but I don't think that I but long story short I think if Kevin Lynch [TS]

  doesn't work out and only last six seven months or something like that and that's [TS]

  the same way but I'm Papermaster lasted nobody remembers Papermaster but [TS]

  everybody's gonna remember this because Tim Cook is under so much more scrutiny [TS]

  than Steve Jobs and east and the second factor like you said he's already got [TS]

  one strike against him [TS]

  John Browett yeah one other curious thing about this and you mentioned as to [TS]

  why didn't they hire from within Apple most famously does a lot of their [TS]

  promotions from with it that's why I wonder if it was like he came to them [TS]

  like here looking for a way out shortly after you know my options are kinda [TS]

  running out over there rather than them they went to him i dont no one other [TS]

  story I heard and this is from one source and you know I can't verify I [TS]

  don't know I just toss it out there is it possible you know somebody somebody [TS]

  believes it somebody Thomas is that Apple wanted to hire him back they [TS]

  weren't sure exactly what you would say round 2008 2009 but like when Steve Jobs [TS]

  restored the company [TS]

  and they wanted to hire Kevin Lynch then for something and he specifically turn [TS]

  them down for the reason that he thought it would be poor form to leave Adobe for [TS]

  Apple in particular while this there is this major point of contention that he [TS]

  was sort of right in the center during the flood right you know that the [TS]

  flashlight with his fight and he by as much as he would otherwise perhaps [TS]

  entertaining option in like to do it that it would be disloyal maybe you know [TS]

  something like that which if true is sort of commendable and speaks honestly [TS]

  you know I would say speaks to his integrity but I you know is that true I [TS]

  don't know that you know the story is the term for a while something I mean [TS]

  looking more optimistic side if he's loyal and he's you know when he's in the [TS]

  middle of something he's passionate about it those are good signs are good [TS]

  qualities company I mean people change teams all the time [TS]

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  assumption as you may not be right next to the iPad you you know you could be [TS]

  across the kitchen promise to read it and had special tools like timers unit [TS]

  conversion check list for the ingredients obvious stuff that really [TS]

  about the practical applications of actually using [TS]

  the app while you're making a meal it organizes recipes for you [TS]

  recipes with ingredients makes it quick and really easy to set cassini all types [TS]

  while you're saving so you can store your recipes by mail tape later so you [TS]

  can do things like just search for breakfast recipes or just search for [TS]

  Chinese recipes but it does a lot of that work for you by identifying [TS]

  knowingly these recipes are so you don't have to sit there and at all this [TS]

  mandated to your recipes to have a sort of like that a lot of it happens [TS]

  automatically really great app very varies so if you want to find out what [TS]

  you did you go to their website its basal dot com there's a dash between [TS]

  baseball and at bas dash dot com or you could just go to the AppStore and search [TS]

  for baseball to great out I think anybody is gonna want to take a look at [TS]

  it thanks to him for sponsoring the show [TS]

  here's another one did you see the thing only yesterday this ABC news story [TS]

  survey that said that the iPhone is what it would do they say that it was no [TS]

  longer as inspiring as other phones it's just a phone it just seemed like such a [TS]

  phony metric of appeal and they just passed this long and so a reader it was [TS]

  it wasn't my idea was a DAF reader who who just said hey if you google the [TS]

  company who conducted this survey that part of an advertising agency and if you [TS]

  go and see and Samsung you see that that Samsung's mean advertising in North [TS]

  America so you know it's it's a survey conducted by Samsung's advertising [TS]

  company that the BBC News just passed the law is packed with no mention of the [TS]

  fact that the same status as Samsung's advertising agency and Mike I think [TS]

  about two hours later they added a paragraph like three or four paragraphs [TS]

  down there said that company is a subsidiary of whatever and they're hired [TS]

  by companies like Samsung Google and Microsoft [TS]

  came in by email Milagro ok great in no way out of value didn't look it up quite [TS]

  frankly if I got it I got a survey about a brand being inspired my eyes and [TS]

  delete it but this is what I mean to me this is a big this is more of a story [TS]

  about just the PR industry and just like what they the constant sort of stuff [TS]

  that we get thrown out as journalists you guys must get I get a lot of a lot [TS]

  of you may like this but you must get ten times more than I do because he not [TS]

  only covers way more than Darren barber covers I mean I covered most everybody [TS]

  knows me for cover Apple but even so I mean I think that people know that I'm [TS]

  just one person whereas the daily output it going is just so much greater [TS]

  I can't even imagine how much you get what I mean isn't there a process [TS]

  involved were you at least you look at it and you have to think we'll who who [TS]

  who is saying right now and i mean clearly there is there's also a [TS]

  disconnect between actually like having news judgment here of course when you [TS]

  get a survey never heard of the person you should maybe check and see where [TS]

  these numbers came from the legitimate what they got you know pulled out of [TS]

  thin air but metrics like inspiring just just [TS]

  headline was Apple brand less quotes inspiring survey says and then the [TS]

  opening paragraph said smartphone rival Samsung is now seen as equally quote [TS]

  inspiring in the us- says the survey by consultancy added value like I said what [TS]

  what the hell does inspire me inspired to do what I have no idea to paint an [TS]

  antiabortion headline and then a pro Samsung lead and it's from Samsung's [TS]

  added and it really only took about 45 seconds of googling to do the connection [TS]

  like this it was not like I did any kind of award-winning investigation to [TS]

  uncover this conspiracy [TS]

  the names of the companies and it all comes up like you really i mean is there [TS]

  no suspicion at all as to who is giving these these numbers would be what what [TS]

  do you mean how much how much of what you cover for you do you do you get from [TS]

  specially email that from a PR firm you like like sort of random Lake email for [TS]

  people I don't know kinda thing right [TS]

  oh I don't know probably 50 emails a day from sources that I don't know at all [TS]

  and probably half of those are totally miss targeted like I mean right before [TS]

  we started talking i deleted an email about some website that was talking [TS]

  about how make your work was like a celebrity like last week earlier this [TS]

  week we were all joking about some pitch about some restaurant chain that's also [TS]

  like so much of the stuff that you get a soft target that's not even really talk [TS]

  but I do get you know because I cover ups like that's the biggest thing is I [TS]

  get a lot of email about abs and some of them are totally random pitches and [TS]

  there it's really good stuff but it's just it's definitely hard to draw down [TS]

  and you know i knows when they're just just the pure the volume of wood most [TS]

  you know writers at work on the web get his kind of crazy I would definitely I [TS]

  would agree with that that random at pitches are the one that from me most [TS]

  leads to something that I'll actually linked to an right about you know again [TS]

  most of them no I don't whatever this happens even if it's good I have no [TS]

  interest in [TS]

  does whatever but every once in a while wanna come thru hey that sounds [TS]

  interesting and I will check it out and you know a couple times a week that will [TS]

  lead to but it also reminds me those that it and Jim Dalrymple spoke about [TS]

  this last year at the conference ull in Dublin where he kind of smoke from the [TS]

  perspective of what I run a busy websites Mac and iPhone news here's my [TS]

  tips decides to develop our audience my tips on how to get my attention and and [TS]

  you know one of his big things was keep your email as short as possible and all [TS]

  these PR firm send out these emails battered I don't know 34 pages like if [TS]

  you printed it out there they're enormous they're like almost like si [TS]

  like like what I see on articles as long in order usually do I just hit the down [TS]

  arrow go to the next message like the best ones are just tell me like three [TS]

  sentences about why you might be interested in or out and give me a URL [TS]

  to find out more than ten times more likely to check it out totally agree I [TS]

  mean whenever you know if I get three or four graphs about something and it might [TS]

  actually sound interesting what are the more aggravating things is like okay [TS]

  having to reply and say okay can I get a link I get more information like how do [TS]

  I tried this like absolute calm with you know like a promo code or a link to try [TS]

  something hasn't launched yet that's great because I can just trying to do [TS]

  the back and forth over trying to figure out how to use it and I did thing that [TS]

  gets me as time goes on it does not seem like PR professionals are getting that [TS]

  like they seemed there seems to be a total disconnect between what PR [TS]

  professionals who people pay to sort of help get exposure to their product or [TS]

  service whatever it is [TS]

  versus the mindset of people like you and me who are getting like you said 50 [TS]

  emails a day pitching various products and ideas maybe more right that's just a [TS]

  random people I don't know that's not even including people that I dunno and [TS]

  so you know if you spent a minute each day giving it serious minute of [TS]

  consideration to eat pizza comes in europe your you would literally burn up [TS]

  an entire hour of time every single work which is not going to happen you can't [TS]

  spend hours just going through pitches from random people every but yet the PR [TS]

  professional seem to have lost the ability to sort of think about it from [TS]

  our perspective and condense it into look like a teaser he's just two [TS]

  sentences that maybe should catch your attention and the URL and a promo code [TS]

  that to which works way more often than a big long let me tell you [TS]

  1500 words about this out and burry burry the actual description in the App [TS]

  in like the 4th paragraph [TS]

  so speaking of PR this is a nice segue John Louie gotta say I hope I'm doing is [TS]

  French justice and a call mice week about it called an alkyl losing the war [TS]

  of words and sort of talking about the recent snowfall shoulders recent [TS]

  interviews about Android on the eve of the galaxy s4 launch and the new product [TS]

  comparison page that Apple has theirs iPhone and there's everything else he [TS]

  seemed a little bit against it thinks it funny doubtful because if you are the [TS]

  market leader you shouldn't stoop to the level of arguing with your opponents in [TS]

  the public and one of the things he sort of got to he didn't he didn't quite come [TS]

  out and say Apple should hire a PR firm but he's sort of seen to insinuate that [TS]

  they shouldn't talked about I think it's Wagner Ekstrom whatever it is with the [TS]

  one that Microsoft is used for decades now six and how successful babe in and [TS]

  and that sort of tactics that these in a footnote in a piece I wrote I just [TS]

  mention that I I think Apple does have a world-class PR firm pages don't they [TS]

  haven't hired one outside the one within the company which i think is a very a [TS]

  polite way to go but you cover more companies than I do and I'm curious if [TS]

  you see it the way I do that Apple has a very unique take on PR vs other very big [TS]

  firms oh absolutely I mean I used to cover more the PC companies so when I [TS]

  covered like dull and HP and Apple they all of them had outside agencies vs [TS]

  apple and yeah apples is definitely different and I think it I think it [TS]

  works for them I mean any journalist that's doubtful PR knows that they can [TS]

  be formidable they gonna get there was was getting out with that ragged would [TS]

  really go after you know people or [TS]

  you know exact competitors are other companies that spoke ill of Microsoft I [TS]

  think he gave like an anecdote about that and I mean I'd in my experience I [TS]

  think that I think that things have changed a little bit with our PR you [TS]

  know since Tim Cook has become CEO but just a little bit and to me that's it [TS]

  doesn't seem like that requires a new home new tactic like what he was [TS]

  suggesting like by going to sit outside firm they are there to have that sort of [TS]

  team of people that are looking out for the the Brandon pushing it [TS]

  journalists and bloggers and I would guess I mean how many people do you [TS]

  think working Apple PR gosh I don't know I mean I think like less than 50 but [TS]

  fifty might not be a bad ballpark number like maybe somewhere between 25 and 50 I [TS]

  guess definitely more than 25 but I think they'd be landing but if you [TS]

  surveyed PR firms nationwide that 25 to 50 PR firm is actually pretty good sized [TS]

  yeah I guess I don't know how large PR firms actually are [TS]

  I don't know you know and I'm sure that the big ones that are truly big and that [TS]

  and that the way that it works at the big ones is that when you have a big [TS]

  account like Microsoft or Dell you've got full-time people you know and so [TS]

  that it's not that individual people who are working on your PR have their [TS]

  attentions her loyalties between different companies but applies if you [TS]

  know I would guess I I feel pretty confident that 25 to 50 range and every [TS]

  single one of them is entirely focused solely apples and apples public [TS]

  relations and I you know a lot of them the ones I i kno are very very bright [TS]

  people and I think they're very very good at their job right and that's what [TS]

  I thought was interesting about the shower incident is before you know and [TS]

  and distally cases like [TS]

  none of them like speak for Apple right like they don't they're not there to be [TS]

  quoted like before it was like Steve smoke and then no one else unless it was [TS]

  like around like a product event or something so I think that's why the [TS]

  shower thing caught so many people who covered appl [TS]

  off guard because that just isn't normal for you know someone that level to just [TS]

  sort of be you know going off on competitors but don't you know [TS]

  definitely don't make the mistake of thinking that it wasn't very very deeply [TS]

  considered you know it's not like the show just got a bug in it but to call [TS]

  the wall street journal and no I mean clear that he contacted several chosen [TS]

  outlets and I get that for sure but on the other hand it's not going to be [TS]

  someone from Apple PR who's going to do the interviewing be quoted its not Katie [TS]

  cotton who's going to go and talk to the wall street journal not Steve Dowling [TS]

  it's gonna be either team cookers shelter and i think thats I think that [TS]

  there's a sort of credibility to that that's kind of mean whether you think [TS]

  that children's comments were wise or not I do think that there's a certain [TS]

  integrity to shoulder saying saying look here I am saying these things it's not [TS]

  just us somebody from PR off the record putting it into a reporter's year and [TS]

  having sources that Apple say this year's feel short going on the record [TS]

  saying here's what I you know I think it's fragmented think that you know I [TS]

  think they're going to be using a year old operating system etcetera etcetera I [TS]

  think that you know here's me saying our numbers show four times more people [TS]

  switch from Android type phone then iPhone to Android [TS]

  so I think that's kind of interesting it is and I when I what I am more [TS]

  fascinated by is like this question is this question of like why does that seem [TS]

  below or something and I i had that reaction to just like guess I like it [TS]

  just it seems somehow like fun kuthe or because of the position that Apple has [TS]

  been in but when you think more about it and you think about other industries [TS]

  why why why shouldn't they be able to defend themselves [TS]

  yeah I think it's I think that this sort of revulsion to it is twofold I think [TS]

  part of it is that Apple's had a couple of years here where their primary [TS]

  products which I would define as the iPhone and iPad because that's where the [TS]

  growth is not swear by far the most you know that I mean that's the whole story [TS]

  of labs last five years is not that the Mac hasn't been doing great too but [TS]

  let's face it that's the heart and soul the company right now and that they just [TS]

  haven't had serious competition as what's the best product in this category [TS]

  right now for a couple of years and when you don't have competition news no [TS]

  competition to denigrate really and now they do i mean whatever used wherever [TS]

  you think the score is between the iPhone 5 and the Galaxy Poor s [TS]

  whichever one you think is you know right now leading the industry you have [TS]

  to admit it close or closer than it's been ever since the iPhone came out and [TS]

  so I think now they have a target and and the other thing too is it Samsung [TS]

  over the last year has really solidified its lead as Android premiered hardware [TS]

  developer I mean in terms of everything the number of units they sell the [TS]

  profits the revenue there is no metric that anybody else making Android devices [TS]

  really compare Samsung right and without a rival there's nobody to you know say [TS]

  these things about and now they do out one and now they're doing it I think the [TS]

  second factor is that in the past it was always Steve Jobs who would stick the [TS]

  knife in the opponent's back and [TS]

  and eighty was Steve Jobs and had you know this sort of our about him this [TS]

  reputation as you know he's Steve Jobs you know he's going to say these things [TS]

  and be he really was good at it too late she was just so good at the sort of [TS]

  backhanded compliment or the sort of you know even if it wasn't even a backhanded [TS]

  compliment if it was just an outright denigration doing it definitely right I [TS]

  sort of don't I don't envy Phil Schiller having to to sort of follow in his [TS]

  footsteps right and I can I can't even see the knife into seems like he just [TS]

  comes across as too nice yeah and make sure to I don't know there was a mean [TS]

  streak to Steve Jobs that the other day at the the rest of the company doesn't [TS]

  seem to have liked among his many guess he's so good at something one of the [TS]

  things that steve Jobs was just truly heinous act was trashing his competition [TS]

  like he was even good at trashing the competition at next one next was really [TS]

  struggling I mean in the market I mean he would trashed like let's say son and [TS]

  you'd listen to me think wow that's a real burnett's great and then you look [TS]

  at the numbers and son was telling you know forty times more work stations the [TS]

  next was but like his trashing of Sun just seemed like he was good at I don't [TS]

  think sure that it but he's still you know it's still it's like you're you're [TS]

  the new shooting guard after michael jordan retired no matter how big or a [TS]

  well let me take a break I mean do the second sponsor break and i wanna talk to [TS]

  you about a new game for iPhone called ridiculous fishing you seem to know [TS]

  ridiculous fishing her ridiculous fishing and it's brand new and it came [TS]

  out and its way at the top of the charts on that story and I it sound so stupid [TS]

  glad it's one of those games that it really is very addictive and I i [TS]

  double-checked I ran past my son Jonas whose 9 you spend a lot more time on [TS]

  iPhone games in me bout for it as well and said yes definitely the gist of the [TS]

  game is your fishermen you past the line line goes down and you tilt the phone to [TS]

  move the wine back and forth as it sinks and so it's sort of like a doodle jump [TS]

  like mechanic retook the fun of it as it goes down you want to avoid fish because [TS]

  if you catch a fish then it'll start going up you want to go as deep as [TS]

  possible so on the way down to avoid fish and it gets to the bottom and it [TS]

  comes up and then as it comes up you want to catch fish then you want to tell [TS]

  the other way and catches then when it gets to the top and this is this is [TS]

  hardly knew I was going to crack up you think that's it that's the game you've [TS]

  got X number of fish and if you get a taxi gone no instead when you come when [TS]

  they come to the top the fishermen throws all the fish in the air intakes a [TS]

  shotgun and then you just shoot the fish in there so it's a three step process to [TS]

  each level the line goes down you avoid finished line goes up you catch fish and [TS]

  then the fish and it's really kind of money that is very much like to jump [TS]

  totally one hand able to real good game we play with one hand almost yeah it's [TS]

  really just tilting and then when the fiscal year you just happen to shoot it [TS]

  really is a lot of fun and you can find out more ridiculous fishing dot com [TS]

  there's no dashes or anything just ridiculous fishing guide com or of [TS]

  course you can go to the AppStore and search for ridiculous fishing and a [TS]

  trust me it is it is very very close and very funny it's a really fun game so go [TS]

  check it out [TS]

  trust me it's worth your attention so two more things is to new apps that came [TS]

  out this week and one is the first one has to do this is Apple's podcasts at [TS]

  the new version is version 1.2 is a bunch that it's almost like maybe they [TS]

  could have called it 2.0 [TS]

  I think I don't know I mean what's the big thing that's new is that you take it [TS]

  from there is the building to create playlists and getting the call like my [TS]

  stations and then there's [TS]

  thinking as well it's funny that you bring up the 2.0 thing is we actually [TS]

  we're Anna I read a review of the apt one of my freelance writers I was [TS]

  thinking I was like I don't usually do reviews of 1.2 updates but it's the [TS]

  invite because it had so much so much missing to begin with but it it [TS]

  warranted it I think you and on the flip side on the surface level they took out [TS]

  the whole reel-to-reel tape here comes that you are more thick interface I mean [TS]

  this is you know a few more things and is you know we can argue for hours and [TS]

  hours but nothing was more school market I mean truly in any sense of the way the [TS]

  word as any meaning at all the tape to tape reel to reel visual interface in [TS]

  the podcast app was either school morphism at its best or worse and that's [TS]

  gone and so it's easier I think it's pretty easy to read into this that this [TS]

  is the forestall is gone [TS]

  Jony ive is in charge of the user interface where they've added a lot of [TS]

  actual utility and taken out something that was truly a money superfluous cuz [TS]

  it's almost too judgmental but ornamentation yes even if you loved it [TS]

  even if you loved the real you really have to admit it wasn't a usability [TS]

  think it was truly just warning that that's exactly how I read it to my eye [TS]

  it was sorta like all right what can we fix what needs to be fixed I certainly [TS]

  quickly and this seems like a perfect example of the kind of the new regime [TS]

  that's going on with software design their right it's very much and to me you [TS]

  know and I would guess for most people who listen to the show to me it's a very [TS]

  good sign and I think it's unsurprising but it still is [TS]

  good time because I you know that some of the missing creatures in the podcast [TS]

  app when they first shipped it we're like real head scratchers like the [TS]

  people who made this app actually listen to podcasts yet it seems like not the [TS]

  kind I don't I didn't use a podcast episode work from home and I'm always [TS]

  here but I mean if you like the basic basic things that you would need a [TS]

  tablet that all the other competitors to the podcast app it was just sort of mind [TS]

  blowing that they were there and you know I'm sure that there's a ton of [TS]

  people who do use it because you know it is Apple's one and that but I i would [TS]

  guess though that the more informed users like you know probably would be [TS]

  good to know be transiting to know what listeners of this show use when they [TS]

  listen to podcasts on my list but I would bet that only a minority used [TS]

  Apple's podcast app because I think the people who listen to this show know [TS]

  about all the other third party apps that are out there that do things that [TS]

  practically speaking or just much more useful like playlists and you know [TS]

  organizing and syncing between devices and stuff like that so I think it's a [TS]

  good deal I think it's a good sign how something is a pretty good sign that [TS]

  it's come out as quickly as it has and that is not something that they were [TS]

  waiting until I was seven or something like that to ya what do you what do you [TS]

  think as far as this was just you know taking away the tape deck thing I [TS]

  thought was just sort of like a small step [TS]

  do you expect more of those small steps in the next version of iOS and iOS 740 [TS]

  think it's gonna be something a little more dramatic yeah you know I don't know [TS]

  what to think about that because I sort of thought that this was more emblematic [TS]

  they what we've seen in the podcast out the new version of it to me was when I [TS]

  was sort of expecting to see systemwide not a radical departure or serious term [TS]

  but just a minor course correction that were just a few [TS]

  Apple's just a few degrees off the proper course and we need to know just a [TS]

  little bit in the right direction because otherwise you'd be going a few [TS]

  degrees of course over time obviously lost and I that's what I sort of [TS]

  expected something like this but now I don't know because I kind of feel it may [TS]

  be just at the not talking about like the concept of Iowa's like that why I [TS]

  like a wire frame design level I don't think that's gonna change but maybe at [TS]

  the chrome is gonna change [TS]

  system wide just to make it look and I kind of feel that that's almost [TS]

  necessary given perception out there that that iOS is sort of stagnating yeah [TS]

  there was a camera where it was was it this week about how the Grand Apple's [TS]

  grid layout about which is old and boring and need to be change its me but [TS]

  that's absolutely you can improve and you can update and make it feel fresh [TS]

  and make it feel new without like complete copying like and Reuters [TS]

  building yeah I don't think I don't know what they can do visually to make it [TS]

  look new without really changing the basic concepts of the home screen [TS]

  because the home screen is so simple but I do think that that's something that [TS]

  that is off-base cause I feel like part of the reason that so many millions of [TS]

  regular normal users feel that their iPads or iPhones are like ice cold glass [TS]

  of water on a hot day is because it's so conceptually simple there is no [TS]

  confusion [TS]

  you know you're either on the home screen and you launch it out at that one [TS]

  button and you go back to them and that's it [TS]

  there is nothing else to the system like the app itself may be very complicated [TS]

  might be very simple but in terms of managing the system itself on screen [TS]

  full of apps or you're in a nap and you want but away from I don't think I think [TS]

  that's [TS]

  brilliant and I think that would be foolish to to complicate that in a way [TS]

  yeah I think some people equate simple with boring but I think those same [TS]

  people who tend to think that are a little more technically savvy and I [TS]

  don't know they like change or something but you know I think about people like [TS]

  my mom like that's that's here this is made for and she opened up her iPad and [TS]

  you're like just need to know she's an instruction how it works like it just [TS]

  works I i think that they can get a lot of mileage out of the visual update [TS]

  thats like I said really just changing the crop changing the color of status [TS]

  navigation bars in the default buttons maybe redesigning the icon on screen new [TS]

  icons for everything that you know that you know that still the Safari icon but [TS]

  it's a new Safari icon maybe get rid of the glossiness or something like that [TS]

  across all of Apple's built-in apps I think they would get a ton of credit [TS]

  from that from the people who only look at how to use it because it's almost [TS]

  literally what I'm talking about the people want to look at what I was doing [TS]

  surface deep they would be like wow this is what we're talking about iOS 7 is you [TS]

  know all new whereas it really just all new design visual design work not [TS]

  conceptual design like any other words I think I would get a lot is another way [TS]

  to put it is I think I could get a lot more credit in the press for the newness [TS]

  of Iowa 7 through work done by designers in Photoshop through work done by [TS]

  engineers in Xcode just by making things look like a new coat of paint across the [TS]

  US I think they would get a lot more day one day to positive I was certainly like [TS]

  right out of the gate you when you she shuffled off into that room and you [TS]

  could look at stuff for 10 minutes or whatever but you know if it was if there [TS]

  was something you know under the hood that were drastically change for the [TS]

  worse like come out just in time to take longer for that the bubble up right but [TS]

  still bubble up eventually [TS]

  right whereas something that looks new just on the surface it would already [TS]

  start making news before the keynote was over because people would have been [TS]

  reading the live blogs and seen the slides that somebody posted live and [TS]

  already the news stories would come out that you know Johnny ideas put his stamp [TS]

  on I was and I think the podcast app is a perfect example of that where I saw [TS]

  more coverage just like by searching for articles about the new podcast headline [TS]

  I saw more articles about the removal of the tape to tape thing then about the [TS]

  features which are little bit more esoteric and you kind of have to [TS]

  understand out podcasting works even get why they're appealing maybe depends on [TS]

  what blogs you read i guess i guess i feel you're probably reading people that [TS]

  you know a little more time actually knows more than it is right well I don't [TS]

  think you have to do well but maybe they'll be a nice feel like that is sort [TS]

  of it's the way that everybody likes to be drawn to a nice and 16 narrative in [TS]

  part of that narrative is that forced all got forced out of Apple because he [TS]

  was in favor of an obscure morphism and Jony ive is not you know way more [TS]

  complicated that's overly simplified but its but it is nice and neat and the [TS]

  other thing is that there is a kernel of truth to that there's you know that it's [TS]

  certainly not the whole story but it actually is you know it's one of the [TS]

  straw that broke the camel's back against forced all I could think there's [TS]

  no doubt that the tape to tape thing was a borstal approved design and the [TS]

  removal of it is clearly sort of it [TS]

  Jony ive approved and designs I can't wait to see what he does when he gets [TS]

  his hands on passbook I wonder I see I wonder about that I don't know I think [TS]

  Press book is kind of appropriately designed to look like the one that i [TS]

  think is more might be marcia is Game Center which is very heavily [TS]

  the crime that the chroma the app is very heavily yeltsin the other [TS]

  real-world textures and stuff like that right now we pass but I meant the you [TS]

  know when you put one of the tickets in the trash right right right the yeah I [TS]

  wonder if you like it or not about thank you I mean I remember forestall [TS]

  demonstrating that like a WC last year and he got a kick out of that but it [TS]

  certainly is one of those things that just like we're doing this because we [TS]

  can look at all so this is but it doesn't need and I will see and that's [TS]

  when I was 14 I don't know maybe maybe that stays though because there is in a [TS]

  certain way some amount of whimsy is appropriate right like the way that the [TS]

  Mac always has had a trash can on the desktop and then when you put an item in [TS]

  the trash can the trash can get that right you know it's always been once a [TS]

  call and it's always been part of the charm so again that's what I mean about [TS]

  it being a course correction not like an about face turn the ship around hundred [TS]

  and eighty degrees like I don't think they're going to get rid of all the [TS]

  whimsy I think that it's they just need to dial back a little bit the past book [TS]

  shredders could that's a good example of I wonder where johnnie i've seen because [TS]

  there is like when you overpass there's the trash so you know why don't you just [TS]

  like you could it would I don't know crumpled up then go away but just like [TS]

  just seems like extra you know more than necessary but like yes like if they're [TS]

  gonna I mean if if there they are going to be doing a course correction to me [TS]

  that seems like a candidate for one of the things they be like alright that's a [TS]

  little much true and it is you know it's one of the things they rehearse those [TS]

  key nodes to death but I do think though that a lot of the time you know they're [TS]

  honest more ways than you think I think that for stalls pleasure in that was [TS]

  truly genuine that he really thought this you know this is great [TS]

  ya know I'm sure did alright so the other Apple wanted to talk about before [TS]

  we wrap up this show is Google keep just announced yesterday is it already is it [TS]

  yesterday i cant we're recording this on Friday at Camp I know own wrote a piece [TS]

  about it and Marco responded in arms already responded to Marcos response but [TS]

  i think thats all happened within a day [TS]

  yeah I'm had some thoughts now either if it was Wednesday yeah well either way it [TS]

  was written in a nutshell Google keep is Google's take on ever I think that's [TS]

  fair to say yes it's you know your note pictures I forget what other attachments [TS]

  they let you do and I would say the incident response was it was funny [TS]

  because I knew what I wanted to say and I was busy at the time you headed it [TS]

  took me a couple hours to me to it and everybody had already beat me to it [TS]

  which is you know oh great here's something new from the makers of Google [TS]

  Reader right I trust that to be around which i think was own steak right yeah [TS]

  exactly it's like the trust as I may not exactly but that's part of his point is [TS]

  like the trust is broken and I guess I'm sort of a sort of had that same attitude [TS]

  like I was one of the people that I was surprised at how I felt about them and [TS]

  in Google Reader like I thought more emotion than I would think about a free [TS]

  service being cancelled but it's because it's related to how I do my job and I [TS]

  think [TS]

  way to like that actually impacts me but something like like you never know or a [TS]

  keeper you're like stuff you actually want to keep I get to see the sort of [TS]

  like ironic that that's the first after they bring out after killing reader very [TS]

  personal and it's like stuff that you actually want to be around and you want [TS]

  to know where it is in one place and you you know it's a sort of thing where [TS]

  you're going to get invested in it like if you use an app like that [TS]

  that you know right it becomes part of your daily routine in system and yes to [TS]

  their credit there's like an export so you can use Google keep a month and if [TS]

  you decide I don't like this app you can export everything I don't forget what [TS]

  format it spits it out and that's that's great and you did not to use it if it [TS]

  didn't have an export feature but let's just say eighteen months from now they [TS]

  pull the plug on keep the same way they did reader it's not that you can get [TS]

  your data it's that your your habits are broken if you were devoted user of the [TS]

  app now you've gotta look for something new your habits are all broken you've [TS]

  got to find a new app you've got to find a way to import the stuff you exported [TS]

  etcetera and so forth right and going back to those charges of you know what [TS]

  if Apple did it to Parker see why I don't think there's a good example for [TS]

  that I can people you know I've seen some of the people starting at me and my [TS]

  emails point out things like you know why should I trust something from the [TS]

  makers of paying or mobile need you know web sharing or something like that and I [TS]

  think the difference with Google Reader is that the products that Apple has [TS]

  canceled have been ones that were I think generally everybody trees were [TS]

  failures and pink is a perfect example right when they pulled the plug on [TS]

  paying I mean I don't know that I saw one articles from owning the demise you [TS]

  know I'm sure that there were some people of course there's somebody out [TS]

  there who really loved him I don't know who you are but somebody without the [TS]

  right you can't have it you can't be a company as big as Apple and not have [TS]

  somebody love everything you do no matter how big her tits but when picking [TS]

  up pulled everybody was like well I didn't see that coming thing was just [TS]

  didn't work out and you know and MobileMe is maybe not as perfect example [TS]

  I know that there were some people using the web sharing features that iCloud [TS]

  doesn't have that now they have to find some other way to store their family [TS]

  photos or something like that way they could be shared but even there it wasn't [TS]

  like a beloved product where is Google Reader is truly beloved by at least [TS]

  hundreds of thousands of people [TS]

  yeah that's the difference I agree I don't think [TS]

  think that Apple made the choice in killing off sharing with me or being [TS]

  because suddenly like it didn't didn't necessarily fit with what they wanted [TS]

  but had a big following right so if Apple comes out with some new after [TS]

  service and you know you have to decide am I gonna become a user of this and [TS]

  devote my time to learning and they had it certainly part of it is you know [TS]

  you've got to think what is this thing you know is as Apple going to stay with [TS]

  this and they don't stay with everything nobody stays with everything but I think [TS]

  at least without bail you can assume if its popular they're going to keep it [TS]

  around right whereas that's the thing that's the thing that I feel like the [TS]

  people who want to defend Google over pulling the plug on Google Reader don't [TS]

  quite get the thing that has people upset is that it's seemingly popular [TS]

  enough maybe told that it wasn't a huge part of the bottom line but there seems [TS]

  like the popularity of Google Reader outweighs the cost to Google of just [TS]

  keeping it going maintaining it let alone investing in actually improving if [TS]

  they just had kept it going as it was then let it languish like that how much [TS]

  would it cost them right and I think would people will more [TS]

  is they look at they look [TS]

  you know Google trying to push people toward Google+ which I don't use I don't [TS]

  like no ones on it what i mean those are for everybody I don't you just try to [TS]

  push people just product that is not nearly as popular when people see that [TS]

  connection I think that's probably why there's two yeah and the other factor to [TS]

  include that's what they want I guess and i cant do you think that's a big [TS]

  factor in their decision to pull the plug on cool readers that they somehow [TS]

  want to just keep putting more carrots out there to draw people to Google+ [TS]

  Google+ is not an RSS reader I think we're the only way they could work as [TS]

  its replacement in any way for reader is it more website started publishing their [TS]

  content to Google+ but you don't do that through RSS you have to you know it's [TS]

  instead of using this open format RSS that you just put on your site and then [TS]

  anybody can read it and parse it and then you know people read it parts of it [TS]

  thousand different ways they're asking you to to become Google+ publishers who [TS]

  are publishing it [TS]

  your stuff only through this proprietary you know social network which you know I [TS]

  I have no interest in doing with your entire body I I don't think I've ever [TS]

  gotten a single request from somebody to publish during fireballs you don't [TS]

  Google+ for your your blog content but you've got a friend in on Google+ or [TS]

  added to the proper I created an account the day they came out and got them back [TS]

  and they spoke to me it's like dark matter is I have 50,000 I think I think [TS]

  50,000 followers of the daring fireball account on Twitter which is just an [TS]

  automated feed of content from Darren fireball I mean that's pretty [TS]

  significant daily basis [TS]

  Twitter links are by far and away the biggest source of incoming traffic to [TS]

  doing terrible really other than just hits to the home page from people who [TS]

  just you know go to the browser and just hit the home page [TS]

  seconded by far and away the biggest refers Twitter the other things [TS]

  interesting by Google keep to me is they don't have an iOS app do it's a web of [TS]

  course from Google so that you know there's a web interface that you can use [TS]

  from a web browser but the only happy his friend right well I mister I'm [TS]

  assuming that would change seems like they would eventually bring it to us I [TS]

  guess so but it is you know it's an interesting this is MOA is finding a [TS]

  finding a way to bring their stuff to Apple's popular when they can but I [TS]

  think over the last couple of years though they've done an awful lot of [TS]

  stuff even though they are the company behind and great they've done a lot of [TS]

  stuff iOS first like didn't they have the Gmail app for iOS before or at least [TS]

  the one for iOS got better before the 14 Android one friend rate was missing a [TS]

  lot of features an eyeless got it first came out a couple of absurd I think [TS]

  we're better first or at least came out at the same time on iOS and Android like [TS]

  there you know and and a couple people have pointed out recently that Google is [TS]

  the single most popular this measured by like downloads third-party developer in [TS]

  the App Store oh yeah I haven't seen that number but I mean I believe it just [TS]

  maps alone I i yet maps may be just the top three like maps I guess chrome and [TS]

  you know that came out our YouTube I don't know maybe one of the new your [TS]

  YouTube and yeah you to YouTube Gmail are you baby just YouTube in that saw [TS]

  yeah but I [TS]

  I don't know I just do you think Google keep to me is it I looked at my watch [TS]

  the video just looks like it has a weird interface doesn't it didn't makes it [TS]

  seem like the type of thing that should be super simple are you just make a note [TS]

  attached a photo and it should be like that list of things and instead it's [TS]

  like this weird almost like Windows Phone my list of where grid that I don't [TS]

  understand the order is just the way it on the web interface or that I'm good [TS]

  and right up which I said ok I don't know weird cocks convoluted interface [TS]

  for something that should be super simple I don't have a use an Android [TS]

  phone since the G one that once again I have a phone I don't know so it does it [TS]

  seem really good fit in with the latest version of Android or not he thought it [TS]

  was just seemed weird even compared to that just seemed weird compared to that [TS]

  because it didn't seem like it arranges the items in the list seems like it [TS]

  ranges of integrated somehow which doesn't make any sense to me but i dont [TS]

  maybe I'm wrong place I'm curious to see whether it's going to be ahead or not I [TS]

  don't know I'm very I don't know what it is but I have a poor track record of [TS]

  predicting the successive products are usually my my my my basic ideas do I get [TS]

  it I get the idea so like I thought I predicted that Google Wave was gonna be [TS]

  a done because I saw the demo i watch their presentation I don't understand [TS]

  what you're supposed to do it alone right and I you know and I thought if I [TS]

  don't understand what you're supposed to do with this I don't see how it's going [TS]

  to be successful and it wasn't successful I'd when Google+ lost I [TS]

  thought I don't understand what you're supposed to use this for why you would [TS]

  use it instead of you know Facebook or Twitter and you know it seemingly is you [TS]

  know I don't think it's quite like Google Wave died but it doesn't seem to [TS]

  have caught on like they were hoping [TS]

  Google keep I understand what you're supposed to do it I do understand the [TS]

  idea of having a nap restore your notes in your pictures and stuff like that [TS]

  stuff you want to remember later but I don't understand why you'd want to use [TS]

  this app instead of something else that I also feel like it's an example Google [TS]

  sort of being like Microsoft Apple where if anybody has any success in something [TS]

  Google wants you know so evernote is apparently very successful I'm a song [TS]

  like a business week story where they were I forgot how many users they're [TS]

  adding a day but it's astounding 200,000 users today or something like that [TS]

  never raised a lot of money and have a lot of people paying for the pro service [TS]

  and stuff like that so I feel like Google's I while there's a company [TS]

  that's doing really well let's let's try to put them out of business [TS]

  I mean shouldn't shouldn't like they're not protecting well maybe not maybe [TS]

  that's not a bit you know I'm not even I i'm not saying it's a bad thing and [TS]

  that's how competition works but I do worry though that it's a replay that [TS]

  Google doesn't the worry is that it's like reader because Goolsbee model is [TS]

  always do it for free and that really sometimes can be hard to compete with [TS]

  great tits nobody else like presumably that's but the pro accounts that you [TS]

  know that ever know needs to have a certain percentage maybe only 3 45 [TS]

  percent of the users paying for the pro service and if Google can come in and [TS]

  really soak up the market with Google keep where everybody is free and then [TS]

  everybody else gets out of the business then all the sudden two years ago if [TS]

  they pull the plug on cool keep Evernote not even around it right but I mean if [TS]

  Apple has to do that to some extent to rate yeah definitely you know a lot of [TS]

  what Apple does is not necessarily free services but it's free stuff built into [TS]

  the OS right I mean like FaceTime for example where he had Skype but they made [TS]

  a different product for free right or I message [TS]

  compared to things like whatsapp all the other various cross-platform text [TS]

  messaging services and many maps obviously I mean though that absolutely [TS]

  free [TS]

  but right although with maps the competition is specifically against [TS]

  other entrenched map providers who are also giving their maps out for free so [TS]

  it's not quite like Apple maps dinner a market where people were trying to make [TS]

  money whereas like iMessage definitely came into a market where they were upset [TS]

  you that the buyer paid you know to get out of the ad yet do you know pay $0.99 [TS]

  or whatever for enacted that did it without so maybe I don't know that's all [TS]

  I've got you think so we covered a lot [TS]

  yeah it's a good show thank you Erika you're welcome thanks for having me on [TS]

  this is great and you know maybe if there's an Apple event soon maybe I'll [TS]

  see you soon [TS]

  just a funny thing there can I always joke about as we both live in [TS]

  Philadelphia and we tend to only see each other when California at outlets [TS]

  next time next time you have me on it if you have me on a live show like hop [TS]

  singer something very silly we should we could we should have to think about that [TS]

  but that would just be so much easier though to do that what do you think that [TS]

  we should think about that I have you can you can verify floor for fans of the [TS]

  day this is my favorite my favorite part world but so do you do which is good I [TS]

  have to say it was better than I thought it would be I mean just because all the [TS]

  hype and sort of my understanding of the general weirdness [TS]

  about it and kind of a cruise ship to jump through to get in I was pleasantly [TS]

  surprised by what I not only what a great experience it was like once you're [TS]

  in but how good the drinks are you can kind of say like the drinks are good but [TS]

  until you have them they're just i mean I don't know I have not found a place [TS]

  that makes better drinks no I haven't gone anywhere and to me that thing about [TS]

  the whole craft cocktail movement is that so many places you think would have [TS]

  great drinks because it looks nice and it looks like somebody spent so much [TS]

  time designing the place coming up with the team in coming up with a menu and [TS]

  you try the drinks and it is terrible to me it's almost like a hipster look at [TS]

  what I enjoy drinking this thing that tastes like bong water and no I don't [TS]

  think there's a lot of pretentiousness pretentiousness on the outside and with [TS]

  the locked door and you have a way to get in and all of this and there's this [TS]

  fussiness all the rules yeah there's rules and stuff like that and it puts up [TS]

  this red flag and you think you're gonna get you know these drinks that taste [TS]

  like bong water something like that or you know here's a drink that tastes like [TS]

  30 cigars at the bottom of it and instead the drinks are so simple and [TS]

  unpretentious and just delicious yet they're genuinely good and I i think [TS]

  also there's sort of a little bit of intimidation factor is you think like oh [TS]

  maybe I'm not I don't know as much about drinking certain types of alcohol or [TS]

  whatever but they're good even drink that I'll call you might not normally [TS]

  drink they're really good [TS]

  yeah and the other thing too is once you were in and you listen to the rule may [TS]

  be a red flag is up to you think this place is hipster central I'm not going [TS]

  like this once you're in no the customer service is extraordinary [TS]

  it's so yeah we're all they really want is for you to be happy with your drinks [TS]

  and I have never seen a place where I'm more often if I try something new they [TS]

  like come back and do you like it and you know seriously you know I got taken [TS]

  off on taking up the bill [TS]

  or whatever like what everyone I do you like it I mean I know I love you sure [TS]

  cuz we really want you to love this great yeah it's also here's a tip I went [TS]

  there on New Year's Eve was no one there so I mean literally the quietest I [TS]

  should say no one there probably like five other couples there but if you want [TS]

  a quiet New Years Eve in philadelphia think its way to go [TS]

  it's amazing you know we thought about going on do you see instead we just [TS]

  stayed home but it's funny cuz if we would have got out music that we would [TS]

  have been that would have it was aight I was worried it was gonna be like pack [TS]

  240 people that's why we thought we'd like we'll just try this and this is [TS]

  definitely the right choice you know why I think the reason it was quite an uzi [TS]

  just too many people who want to have a raucous and there's no way to leave is [TS]

  ever gonna let things get out of control [TS]

  you know what that's true right so people who know that they want to have a [TS]

  big lad news even if they've ever been saying they know they're not going to [TS]

  get away with it there so they didn't get any other show no worries me I'll I [TS]

  would like a quite literally the countdown to the night was like I heard [TS]

  one of the bartenders go like 430 quiet and like literally one couple clapped [TS]

  was very cool that's great I'm so glad to know really kind of felt like I [TS]

  missed out on New Year's Eve yeah we'll have to see I bet there's zero chance [TS]

  that we will let us do it she would do it like five o'clock or something you [TS]

  know I don't know what to say that would be fantastic to be a great idea [TS]

  all right thank you again Erica this is a great show and i'm ok bye [TS]