The Talk Show

42: No One Has A Higher Horse

 

  you know it speaking of the the old talk show you know this was last week I think [TS]

  commemorated I guess it was announced it would have been a week before I skip to [TS]

  show that it's it's a year since I started doing the show here at me and [TS]

  then didn't commemorate the year [TS]

  a week what will have happy anniversary [TS]

  that's exciting one year has gone by pretty quickly and power the how are the [TS]

  hot hot under the collar longtime fans who who were like kind of not so happy [TS]

  about your transition you know i i don't really look at the iTunes I don't hear [TS]

  from any more nobody got some email at first but most of it was in the iTunes [TS]

  comments and I don't look at them that much anymore but still show up this all [TS]

  seems like there's every once in a while I'll look at the comments and there's [TS]

  one and I think well as an alt comment because there's somebody commenting on [TS]

  it like it just happened and then a look at the data owner comment yesterday and [TS]

  it's very mean I get over it you know what I I was actually thinking of you [TS]

  and thinking about all the whole way that played out recently when I was just [TS]

  kind of Washington commiserating with you know commiserating from afar [TS]

  actually with Marco Arment about this whole you know everyone's giving you a [TS]

  hard time about how much he did or didn't maker should or shouldn't be nice [TS]

  to people and all this stuff and it's just that certain that there's a certain [TS]

  kind of personality out there that I think no matter who you are if you have [TS]

  some level of success I'm going to try to chip away at it was going to try to [TS]

  find find [TS]

  I think it's like just like it's like a defensive gesture on their part maybe [TS]

  like explain I don't need to be may be jealous or envious of this person [TS]

  anymore because they're actually [TS]

  horrible person who you know once changed a feature and Instapaper that [TS]

  made me somebody mad I don't know what it is but there's like there's two types [TS]

  of people as well as more than two tax but there's at least two times people [TS]

  one major group of them is this group of people who are like with you and for you [TS]

  and strongly in support of everything you do and tell you do this one thing [TS]

  we're like oh I thought you were about you were some kind of superhero I also [TS]

  think and I think Marco is of particular magnet for this is especially his recent [TS]

  run of 17 what's up with that Jesus Christ is selling everything but I think [TS]

  he's a particular magnet for this because he's is recent run is a couple [TS]

  of things or even really sell the number but he was part of it so he you know he [TS]

  did he benefited because you know he had some sliver of a stake in it and it sold [TS]

  for 27 gazillion dollars and his personality and the way he is so he's [TS]

  not abrasive but he doesn't bend in the face of jackasses [TS]

  yeah and and what I think he's a magnet for is that there's a certain segment of [TS]

  people out there who feel that if you have or if somebody else has been [TS]

  successful and clearly successful then there there are free target for just any [TS]

  anything you want to throw at them because it's fair game because they've [TS]

  had some kind of success and you can just sort of and and just like let off [TS]

  steam in their direction yeah actually thought about this when I was talking on [TS]

  my putting show with Jackie Chang from formerly of course you still with us [TS]

  technical but the famous Jackie tang and we're talking about this like spectrum [TS]

  of celebrity where it's like I think people are so used to for tens hundreds [TS]

  of years if you knew somebody's name and didn't know them personally [TS]

  then they must be so famous that they could take anything that's a perfect way [TS]

  to put it that's a good way to put it [TS]

  yeah because it will have its kinda like a modern it's kinda like a modern [TS]

  affordances of modern technology that we are afforded like small-scale [TS]

  celebrities right like people like you would never have been on the radar of [TS]

  anybody right I mean not nice to dismiss what you doing but in the old days maybe [TS]

  you would've gotten a job at CBS Radio or something but if you didn't and you [TS]

  were just kinda toiling away your stuff then you wouldn't have the site kind of [TS]

  tailored made kind of fan base and I think that there's a built-in [TS]

  misunderstanding of how celebrities can be treated right and then I was saying [TS]

  to Jackie that actually opened my eyes a little bit to the fact that you know [TS]

  even the real celebrities I miss guilty of it is anybody I'd say like oh sure [TS]

  Madonna can take some ribbing or something but you can step back and take [TS]

  a look at like what famous people we know quote-unquote famous people all the [TS]

  way up to really famous people and you say you know that John the think tank in [TS]

  your mind of the most famous the most legitimate Lee famous person that you [TS]

  know well enough to make this judgment about and say doesn't that person like [TS]

  actually get their feelings hurt when somebody's total jackass to them and I [TS]

  think it's true I think some of us may be hardened to it more than others but I [TS]

  got a standard Jackie I bet there's some part of Barack Obama whose like it don't [TS]

  you know that's not fair [TS]

  anyway that's something that I think people need to catch up to this thats [TS]

  hopefully it'll help lead people to understand a lot of what I think people [TS]

  view as judging demarco judging judging you judging me judging anybody on her [TS]

  behavior and how we handle you know criticism or whatever is it's it's [TS]

  failing to acknowledge that that's that's kind of an unusual circumstance [TS]

  having that much feedback and having that much exposure to people [TS]

  yeah and I almost feel like we don't have a good word for it because I you [TS]

  know I'm not a celebrity celebrity is clearly the wrong word but there are way [TS]

  more people who know me than I could possibly now and that is something and [TS]

  that's and that's not a natural right now thousands of generations of human [TS]

  development you to people who knew you and the people who you know is pretty [TS]

  much one to one and maybe you were the tribal leader and slightly more people [TS]

  knew you then you knew but you still saw their faces right you were still the [TS]

  tribal leader to most most cases hundreds are probably not you know i [TS]

  mean that that was the exception and that's really closer to you know if [TS]

  you're like a king or something like that it's closer to what do you know the [TS]

  regular meaning of celebrities yeah it's a relationship [TS]

  disparity what you have speaking a well-known people I should say who you r [TS]

  everybody always complains because I like start to show you know cold open [TS]

  but you know people may not know the things I always assumed to the people [TS]

  look at the show this is the disco little Matt on podcasting I assume that [TS]

  with the talk show that when the new episode comes in whatever app you're [TS]

  using to us into it you at least leg look at it and I always put the guest's [TS]

  name like first as a special guest Daniel jacket joins John Gruber for work [TS]

  blah blah blah but I put the guest's name right at the beginning of the [TS]

  description every time so that you can see all here's who's on the talk show [TS]

  this week but a lot of people I think apparently they get email people email [TS]

  me and I'll say I just listen to your show and it was great I don't know who [TS]

  was on your show I got Daniel job and I don't know how how is it Daniel that [TS]

  you've never even been on the show I don't know what it is it's it's a [TS]

  relationship disparity that's what I call it my fault as you can ask to be on [TS]

  I have to ask you but I don't know why I've never ever had you on before it [TS]

  happens but it's great to finally be here I mean I have been I have been a [TS]

  booster for your show so I'm very happy to see you still doing it and and I was [TS]

  for what it's worth not among the hot-headed you know frazzled masses when [TS]

  you decide to move over to your radio and you doing a great job there so this [TS]

  is working well and are at the bottom line is I I like the show better and [TS]

  that's you know doing well so i think you know it's clearly not hasn't made [TS]

  everybody happy but I can't do that but I feel like if you're not doing a show [TS]

  that you like or whatever if it's in you know you're making apps if you're making [TS]

  anything if you're not making something that you yourself like you're gonna be [TS]

  miserable I i dont know I can't imagine how anybody would be able to work on [TS]

  something if they don't like the thing that they're working on it they're going [TS]

  to be miserable you're getting back at you know not to harp on this but you [TS]

  getting back at that whole like judging successful people saying where there is [TS]

  a huge amount of expectation for like continued service to some PRI's [TS]

  previously presumed promise like for example just just to harp on the market [TS]

  situation a little bit there are some people out there who undoubtedly feel [TS]

  that Marcos commitment must be should have remained and should remain until he [TS]

  dies or Intel [TS]

  computers are obsolete to work on Instapaper with say right and you know [TS]

  or for example that you're never you know I don't anticipate you giving up [TS]

  during fireball starting a new blog but if you did [TS]

  merely changing just merely ditching during fireball starting a new blog you [TS]

  let's say let's say for whatever reason to be decided it's not making you happy [TS]

  looking at looking at that blog looking at the articles that come out of it [TS]

  you're you're unhappy you decide this is for me I'm gonna start a new blog people [TS]

  should be happy for you at that point but they wouldn't be there would be [TS]

  saying you killed you killed during fire [TS]

  well it would be a vocal minority though like one thing I have found over the [TS]

  years and you know and and clearly during fire buzz has become very [TS]

  successful I do get a lot of emails from readers and stuff like that most of them [TS]

  are just terrific really I mean just it's just amazing and and and I do feel [TS]

  like it's it's like the polar opposite of having comments on a blog right where [TS]

  a you know an end and I have not had comments the whole time you know like [TS]

  people who are in late too daring fireball often think that maybe I've [TS]

  turned off comments because audiences so big and it you know and it turned bad [TS]

  but I didn't have a min when I had literally like in 2002 when I got [TS]

  started like a hundred page views a day and and you know sixty unique visitors I [TS]

  didn't happen then either I mean I didn't want him but I think everybody [TS]

  knows that if you do have comments for better for worse a lot of them a very [TS]

  significant proportion of them are from jackasses whereas and I think see I [TS]

  think the reason is is that the jackasses who like to meet jack ass [TS]

  comments on my weblog do it because they know that pub the thing is going to be [TS]

  public [TS]

  you know it's a sort of look at me [TS]

  right anonymously it's this anonymous I can be a jackass and get away with it [TS]

  urged that that certain personalities have whereas if it's all private they [TS]

  don't did they get nothing out so I don't get i get very very very very [TS]

  little I mean like you know and fully year emails that I would consider the [TS]

  equivalent of comment jackass hurry I get lots of emails from people who [TS]

  disagree with me I get lots of emails from people who just want to say that [TS]

  they agree with me and that they really like the site but all of it is great i [TS]

  mean almost all of it is just super super respectful especially the stuff [TS]

  from people who disagree with me and then and I like those emails him better [TS]

  than the ones that agree with him because it gives me more to think about [TS]

  but it's by email and by any other thing too is on Twitter I it's I think that [TS]

  the people you know who who [TS]

  reply me based on their entire book content are great but it's because their [TS]

  name is on her Twitter account right yeah there's something to that and he [TS]

  said you know that the vast majority of comments are like you know jerks or [TS]

  whatever that is that is something that becomes more true as the popularity [TS]

  scales for the site so if you did have it if you had happens to turn on [TS]

  comments on day one I bet you would have had close to 100% thoughtful meaningful [TS]

  comments but then you would have had to suffer that gradual decline as people [TS]

  like it's like like if there was like a bridge overpass that nobody thought [TS]

  there would be there be no graffiti on it right but then like if they put it by [TS]

  pathfinder it then there'll be a ton of graffiti up there because it's so [TS]

  interesting target now but I you know it's funny as i've i've you know me I [TS]

  kinda like my high horse on some issues in a special [TS]

  so much the first and last appearance on the taxes let me get on my horse nobody [TS]

  has a higher horse of a specialized staircase to get up on my high horse but [TS]

  I've been like the guy who defends comments like on a philosophical level [TS]

  right now been like I owe everything to my comments because when I started red [TS]

  sweater blog I had no readers and you know it's like it's like you're saying [TS]

  John hundred readers maybe they took me awhile to get a hundred readers and and [TS]

  I did have comments and I thought that it helped me to grow that like small [TS]

  community and I think that's true for a lot of people but I did face this [TS]

  question when I started my new blog it's putting blog and I have to confess I [TS]

  didn't make a big deal out of it but there's no comments on that blog and I [TS]

  just kind of said you know what I'd give this a try so you can chalk that up to [TS]

  getting off my high horse [TS]

  growth don't you think though that the rise of Twitter and sort of [TS]

  establishment of twitter-like as traders you know it's came out what 2006 and [TS]

  really explode in 2007 2008 among our crowd and now by now it's it's so old [TS]

  that it's hard to imagine it got to the point you can imagine what life was like [TS]

  without it and it really does help though it's it's not the same as [TS]

  comments on your site it's not the same but it's an interesting middle ground [TS]

  because their public and because you can safely assume that anybody who might [TS]

  want to Twitter account has one [TS]

  yeah I think it i think thats helps maybe what you're getting at is it made [TS]

  it easier for me to make that decision [TS]

  to know that I have a connection with people who want to have a connection and [TS]

  it is valuable for it to be public and it is it is a welcome email comments but [TS]

  there is he said something to public comments being on the record and helps [TS]

  the discourse I think I'm both sides when it's working correctly [TS]

  yeah it's definitely is discourse you know and I think it definitely you know [TS]

  i mean i i i i read almost all my I know I can keep up with me but I can I do not [TS]

  think keeping up with my twitter is is easy I think it's I think it's one of [TS]

  the greatest things and I think it really helped make during fireball a [TS]

  better site I really do just from the feedback you mean yeah I really do but [TS]

  in a way that comment would not have well thats that it's like the email so [TS]

  it's similar to him to the comparison to email in that it's sort of like [TS]

  predictable format of Twitter feed back the reason you can stay caught up on [TS]

  Twitter messages this because you know you kinda know how to parse each one and [TS]

  you get an email and it's like three paragraphs long you know what's in the [TS]

  first i've i've read this and it's from read this i've i've i've thought about [TS]

  this and it's part of the genius of Twitter and I truly mean it and it's in [TS]

  that sense of nobody gives it the credit it deserves because it's so obvious but [TS]

  it's only obvious in hindsight is that they forced brevity of Twitter means [TS]

  that you don't have to open messages to read them because the thing you see in [TS]

  the list of tweets is that we because it's so short you don't have to have a [TS]

  separate open mode vs what it is that in the list and Europe its did it it fits [TS]

  with the way that we're our minds are hooked up to read because you just [TS]

  scroll scroll through the thing [TS]

  and you receive it on reading you know if you're a fast reader you can really [TS]

  get through them quickly in a way that that if if your Twitter client were set [TS]

  up like an email client would you be the stupidest idea for Twitter at all but if [TS]

  it just showed you know something like the equivalent of a subject and you had [TS]

  to like just our oh through them one at a time to actually read the tweets [TS]

  I'd never be able to keep up its the fact that I can use my eyeballs rather [TS]

  than anything else to to to keep up with them all they have to do is look at them [TS]

  to read them kids genius right yeah I agree and they speaking of my high horse [TS]

  that's one of the many reasons that I'm just like passionately against these [TS]

  services like tweet longer I just don't tell me the to me the acceptable [TS]

  transgression is a multi multi tweet that ideally limited to two tweets by [TS]

  then after that it's like okay you should be writing a blog post or [TS]

  something but at least it still has the characteristic in a tent ideally if it's [TS]

  if it's like two in rapid succession than even for you or anybody else [TS]

  skimming it you still sort of read it completely visible as a continuous thing [TS]

  but if you make somebody go on a link to read the rest of your Twitter thought [TS]

  thats just like every time I see something I get 50% of the way down [TS]

  person yeah exactly it's much much more so than mister some of ya back to the [TS]

  point of being able to skip it and being able to process like much more than [TS]

  maybe somebody following having path half of what they say be stuff you're [TS]

  not interested in you can skip that and there's other genius things that have [TS]

  come about you know like the evolution of Twitter like where the image [TS]

  attachments which are really just URLs in the tweet because the tweet is really [TS]

  just tax [TS]

  but putting the thumbnail of them in the tweet it's great it's sound stupid began [TS]

  again it seems so obvious in hindsight but when when clients for started doing [TS]

  that it felt a little wrong because it felt like tweets were supposed to be [TS]

  just text but you know clearly it's the right thing to do [TS]

  yeah and that's that that's extended in the whole Twitter cards thing which I [TS]

  think when it works well it works really well like another example of that is [TS]

  absolutely incredible like App Store URL and then before you would just be like [TS]

  what I'm gonna click this thing are now just shows up I think we've done the [TS]

  clients I use shows up as a little thumbnail of the app yeah I can see that [TS]

  is kind of like a way of of like Twitter and other companies moving in on style [TS]

  and formatting of people's tweets but when it's like when it's kinda like when [TS]

  you when you take the step to go a step of putting a URL in the content but I [TS]

  think you're kind of like inviting any anybody who can make that more [TS]

  digestible to readers [TS]

  go ahead go for it make that more digestible for my readers agree to take [TS]

  a break we've got three sponsors for the show [TS]

  better better take a break for the first one I won't tell you about a glow a [TS]

  Sponsor to show a couple weeks ago i dont have you heard it but this is [TS]

  fantastic service short and sweet igloo is an intranet that you actually like [TS]

  and and Internet sounds like such a nineties word but it's still a great [TS]

  thing if you're a company you need to have some kind of you know internal to [TS]

  your company web thing that is going to keep everybody together and and private [TS]

  and all the old ones that I remember seeing there such thing is just awful [TS]

  nineties stuff [TS]

  Louise totally new and it's really really modern and it's just great and [TS]

  they have some new stuff just from month ago that's new and here's the best part [TS]

  the best part is you can sign up now and get an igloo and start using it right [TS]

  now just sign up and start using it free for up to 10 people so you can use it [TS]

  see just how cool it is up to 10 ppl cuz it's the collaboration with the other [TS]

  people you work with that really makes things in up to 10 ppl 3 absolutely free [TS]

  and then you can upgrade to a paid account later to add more people and [TS]

  it's free [TS]

  has no ads and totally respects your privacy because the whole thing is built [TS]

  for business it's not you know some kind of Facebook thing with their tracking in [TS]

  showing yet and stuff like that all they want to do is give you a great internet [TS]

  that you want to pay for which is i think is just the way business should be [TS]

  run they've got a sandwich video I think the sandwich video last time I wanted to [TS]

  show wasn't quite out yet but it's great for me a video for them it's very trying [TS]

  to end it and you know like I this is what makes video so great it's funny but [TS]

  it also genuinely explains the product probably better that I can so you get 10 [TS]

  users for free [TS]

  yeah ten years are free to sign up and you can use it and and the sign of you [TS]

  using it instantly you could actually if you signed up when I started reading [TS]

  this sponsorship thing you probably already have you when you do want to [TS]

  upgrade could you have more people on your team it's only $12 per user per [TS]

  month if you want to use it with your whole company and they've got new [TS]

  templates and AB type kit built in so it's like you know this thing is that I [TS]

  hey everybody's in the same type get you get to choose from all the Adobe typed [TS]

  it in terms of like styling it making it look the way you want it [TS]

  David responsive design for the things so it looks great on your phone screen [TS]

  on your iPad looks great on your 27 inch iMac all with these templates that you [TS]

  know you don't have to call them up there already there they've got a big [TS]

  big improvements that your I T department if you're the person who runs [TS]

  the internet out there listening to the show and you're thinking maybe I should [TS]

  do this but you've got ideas I T department that's gonna have to approve [TS]

  it they're going to be run on board that they've got clients include has clients [TS]

  like they got RSA kimberly-clark that's the kleenex people IDC I mean you know [TS]

  big big corporations RSA is that literally like their security people so [TS]

  i mean you know so you know you have an internal blog internal communication [TS]

  little internal at your own like little internal company Twitter type thing but [TS]

  it's gotta be used Twitter because its internally gotta keep internal igloo can [TS]

  give it to you so check them out here is where you go [TS]

  glue software dot com slash the talk show just like you know the house the [TS]

  Eskimos igloo software dot com slash the talk show and I know you came from the [TS]

  show my thanks to them for for being the first boxer shorts and other stuff that [TS]

  you're working now make sure they got it all straight because it's it's it's a [TS]

  big list so you've got red sweater software correct that's mars at it [TS]

  you've got was the crossword up black ink lacking famous among nerds fast [TS]

  scripts I've got fast groups that's a that's sort of overlooked because it is [TS]

  a pain is a free version and a paid version or is it just three yeah it's [TS]

  free and then you pay if you want to have more than 10 keyboard shortcuts so [TS]

  that's the cut off there but none of that stuff is really all that stuff [TS]

  that's not mars that it is like [TS]

  backup plans like it's it's not making a stop paying for my son came from a kid's [TS]

  education anything that's red sweater so yeah and you got core intuition which is [TS]

  a podcast you been doing with friend of the show me an increase since forever [TS]

  five years as well as of this past Wednesday but it's it's it's it's like [TS]

  when are you guys feel like it or do you guys have a schedule yet we are on a [TS]

  strict fairly strict once a week schedule now thanks to actually sponsors [TS]

  thanks to finally just like biting the bullet and taking sponsors that was kind [TS]

  of a wake-up call for me because I think I've been like gradually coming out of [TS]

  growing up on Usenet they know the late eighties and early nineties thinking of [TS]

  the internet as a non commercial space obviously do all my commerce on the [TS]

  internet have grown past that but there's been some kind of block for me [TS]

  for years like me don't you know you don't put ads on things or something [TS]

  like that [TS]

  well I was wrong about that but add that to my list of things I was wrong about [TS]

  John your high horse my horse my horse is load is getting lighter but it's been [TS]

  great for us to have sponsors not just because you know gives us a little money [TS]

  to keep the momentum going but it's also a kind of a vote of confidence for the [TS]

  show so yeah that's true to the strip now you've also got on this is the the [TS]

  thing that's relatively recently as you started a new blog and now it's podcast [TS]

  to under the bit splitting for and that's wedding dot org I guess it's the [TS]

  home of both really yeah dorgan and I just typed podcast into / podcast [TS]

  that all came about because you know as you remember jawed over the years I've [TS]

  been blogging from red sweater blog company's blog and being up on my high [TS]

  horse and doing all my ranting it always felt a little uncomfortable to me to [TS]

  have that share space with what is supposedly some whites alike [TS]

  issue neutral software company ya like it doesn't it was kind of a mixed [TS]

  blessing because it was great when I would when I will blog about something [TS]

  and it got some attention and people were thinking at around two then I think [TS]

  there was a non negligible benefit to the company to income because I wasn't [TS]

  charging for anything on my blog I wasn't having ads on my blog but people [TS]

  go there they got products or product helped but there was always this nagging [TS]

  feeling either that I shouldn't blog about something I shouldn't rant against [TS]

  Apple I shouldn't complain about the most obvious types of things he [TS]

  shouldn't complain about like customer behavior or something [TS]

  yeah it's a delicate balance I know exactly what youre talking especially [TS]

  and I think you know for you personally your personality particularly as I've [TS]

  said several times you know you like to get up on it and that's a little bit [TS]

  more it's a precarious spot when you want to you know it doesn't even have to [TS]

  be politics I mean in in some sense it's all politics is not necessarily National [TS]

  Fair politics but talking about the App Store is political in a sense yes and in [TS]

  the classic sense but you you know you want to separate that from your software [TS]

  business [TS]

  yeah and then like lots of things that just didn't try to take a step back and [TS]

  say not only like is this appropriate for say the red sweater blog but you [TS]

  know as the company you know the company being just me but [TS]

  nonetheless as the company gets more popular and has a wider reach and more [TS]

  people have heard about it they go to the site and download the products they [TS]

  think Oh I should maybe keep up with what this company is doing look at the [TS]

  blog and c like well this is what Nokia is doing wrong [TS]

  you know what what the heck does that have to do with anything right where [TS]

  it's not even even if it's not about avoiding touchy subjects it that you [TS]

  somehow feel like the red sweater blog really ought to be on topic for users of [TS]

  red sweater software and anything that's not really on topic for the users or [TS]

  would-be users of the software is potentially a distraction [TS]

  yeah and then in the reverse is true as well as I was lucky enough to start [TS]

  gaining this readership of people who were kind of maybe not even interested [TS]

  in the products but interested in what I have to say I started feeling like oh [TS]

  we're not going to like they're not going to like this like update about [TS]

  fast groups like there's a disservice both audiences not to have like a [TS]

  distinction between the two to service customers who just want to keep up to [TS]

  date with company news [TS]

  our company related stuff and the people who kind of stumbled in out of the tech [TS]

  greater tech world and wanted to keep up on my my rants and perspectives so I'm [TS]

  pretty happy with the way it worked out so far just kind of just did a soft [TS]

  launch of its putting the blog of several months ago now I guess I'm still [TS]

  getting I'm not sure yet another part of this is I'm not really sure how much I [TS]

  want to blog but it's really great to have my experience it's really great to [TS]

  have an outlet for that at that moment where you're like oh yeah I have [TS]

  something to say and eluding back to the Twitter thing when it doesn't fit in one [TS]

  tweet or maybe at most two tweets that's when you really need that you need some [TS]

  outlet and I think you mostly just do you must do everything through during [TS]

  fire but I know you also have a tumblr [TS]

  there must be some occasions when you when you're like this isn't really work [TS]

  for you know I Ali I guess with tumblr in particular is probably your outlet [TS]

  like when you want it you don't usually put photos up on during fireball but you [TS]

  know anybody who has no new evil or even followed your work knows that's not [TS]

  because you don't like photos just look November 2009 I guess that dates me huh [TS]

  I think they've been waiting patiently 23 posts on it I don't know it's not [TS]

  maybe it maybe I got a file that away the one I did have the other one that [TS]

  Fraidy cats one was i was just posting links to politicians who were endorsing [TS]

  policies that to me implied that they are afraid of terrorists [TS]

  you know right crazy cats that tumblr.com but I haven't updated that [TS]

  and that's that's an example of something that you wouldn't shy away [TS]

  from on a like occasional basis on during fire but you still kind of [TS]

  probably acknowledge that that's not as a whole [TS]

  clogged up during fireball with that led to something like that but Joe in 2008 I [TS]

  did I did I went pretty strong anti Sarah Palin in 2008 by far and away if [TS]

  you look back if you like graft every post too daring fireball for the last [TS]

  ten years and which ones were political that there's this there is this [TS]

  concentration in 2008 in the run-up but I don't regret it at all and I would [TS]

  explain to people at the time that I seriously thought that this was you know [TS]

  that this was dangerous to literally to the world that is a mentally unbalanced [TS]

  and unfit person who was you know possibly going to be very close to being [TS]

  the leader of the free world [TS]

  get it at all and I think in the years since it's been proven right that the [TS]

  woman is like a nut job yeah I know what you mean is it something something to it [TS]

  almost being like a national emergency and I guess is you say it's totally [TS]

  hyperbolic too and there's some people who are so you know they're hooked up [TS]

  wrong and they couldn't they can't see it because there you know and I would [TS]

  like to think I really would I think I would that if if the democratic party [TS]

  which I more closely associated with politically nominated for vice president [TS]

  someone of equivalent menthol stability and and ability that I would recognize [TS]

  it and think well this is not even though I disagree with the other party I [TS]

  have got to vote for endorse the other party because I you know far more [TS]

  important than whether I agree with the person is whether the person is [TS]

  dangerous yet another job you can we can have a maniac is you know vice president [TS]

  but I you know and and you know it's it's just a fact though that I was [TS]

  tweeting or posting political stuff you know and it wasn't like I said I filled [TS]

  up the site with it but you know yeah I point the stuff out you know like when [TS]

  it came out that she didn't read newspapers couldn't him a magazine I [TS]

  pointed out listen this is the truth this is a person who doesn't even read [TS]

  magazines or newspapers you know and that's what we need in america john F it [TS]

  rational people went nuts but I think most people understood yeah you know I [TS]

  get something that's that seemingly off topic but it's not what Darren fireball [TS]

  is what I'm interested right happens to be personal interests blog that Lance [TS]

  heavily towards computers because you're so interested in its most wanted towards [TS]

  stuff not because I i I keep it on focus it's because I am right so I worked at [TS]

  that when I think about all the time [TS]

  it's a disservice to the the film and sports and politics that since computers [TS]

  interests have dominated so I think it's as possible just a sign of just how bad [TS]

  I am doing more than one thing at a time but how it seems to me like you alot and [TS]

  in no pun intended with it but yeah but with a new blog and podcast for the blog [TS]

  which is really been great I mean you've really had some great guests recently [TS]

  and Jackie Chang is great and you know I gotta get on Amanda wicks said great [TS]

  great programmer she's like one of the first programmers who like I I loved [TS]

  being able to cuz Jonas my son loves pac-man and she did the Pacman port for [TS]

  iPhone which is ideally Pacman Jones new until we finally found an arcade [TS]

  somewhere there were like I know I know the woman who have fun and he was a [TS]

  great many actually seem to have a decent wage earners Gruber finally [TS]

  finally learns that you actually know some real celebrities but it's a great [TS]

  showing your doing good but then you've got the man thing and you still running [TS]

  a red sweater software which I presume is really your main [TS]

  yeah it's a little bit of its a little it's probably a little bit of a folly to [TS]

  take on all these things to be honest but I don't know this is this is there's [TS]

  a certain freedom and recklessness of true independents can lead to this end [TS]

  I keep my wife lake trout like for instance the discipline podcast that's a [TS]

  lot of work and we always joke that maybe it'll be like a British TV series [TS]

  right where it's like well it ran for 22 episodes and then it never aired again [TS]

  and it's kinda like the knowledge that that that that that could happen is sort [TS]

  of what keeps me a little bit saying on that front but Marco and Syracuse casey [TS]

  you less had that idea with their car park podcast where they start our [TS]

  podcast with explicitly up front where they said we think we're gonna do this [TS]

  for like five or six episodes because we think we've got like five or six [TS]

  episodes of car talk to talk about but that's an interesting idea to me because [TS]

  it if you come into it up front with the idea that it's going to be a mini-series [TS]

  rather than an open-ended do this forever thing it frees you to do things [TS]

  that you feel like you don't really have infinite content for right now I feel [TS]

  like a lot of things on the internet [TS]

  feel like you you shouldn't either side do I feel like you shouldn't started if [TS]

  you're not going to keep up with it yes and I think that's the that's the the [TS]

  nagging fear part of it is I can I actually started actually committed to [TS]

  doing the podcast I was really foolish when I started I was thinking I'm gonna [TS]

  do it weekly and you know how that is doing the show it's like a week goes by [TS]

  very quickly it doesn't you know again I'm a great job and it's fantastic but [TS]

  it is true it's it's like you feel it sounds like a plan a week doing a [TS]

  podcast once a week isn't that big a deal but it seems like lately I've been [TS]

  recording on Fridays were recording this on Friday [TS]

  31st May and it just seems like when it comes to the podcast it's like well it's [TS]

  Friday it's time to do the show and then like the next week rolls around and it's [TS]

  Monday and I feel like well the podcast is at the end of the week I can work on [TS]

  all this other stuff and then I close my eyes and next thing I know it's Thursday [TS]

  night and I gotta figure out who the hell and asked to be on the show and I [TS]

  can't believe it you know it feels like I just recorded the show in maryland [TS]

  yesterday right catches up with the fast and you know I also have antagonists [TS]

  friendly antagonists like our friend Gus Mueller from flying meet who has been [TS]

  just hitting the ball out of the park lately with his acorn for lunch and you [TS]

  know he's like he's in this group of you know so-called IndyMac developers like [TS]

  me who are more or less just one person companies trying to take a crack at it [TS]

  and we vote we've we've been sort of like you know we've been like four years [TS]

  now we've been sorta like motivating each other like kinda like comparing [TS]

  notes like what are you going to do next what it's trying to connect keep each [TS]

  other going in the direction and he is just been on my case lately about not [TS]

  two things not shipping and where the hell am i doing all these podcasts so he [TS]

  has some was there I think but on the flip side it's like one of the reasons [TS]

  I'm doing the podcasts is I have the freedom I can do this it's like I say I [TS]

  said when I like announced that I was starting to disbelieve podcast Mike I'm [TS]

  a fan of terry gross for 15 years or whatever you know I've been listening [TS]

  and if you would ask me fifteen years ago what are the odds of you [TS]

  Daniel jacket doing a show someday vaguely comparable to terry gross [TS]

  interview show it was said that's impossible I'm a computer programmer I [TS]

  work at Apple have a day job I have no broadcasting experience I have I have no [TS]

  FCC license I'm not going to go study the FCC license rules and I'm not gonna [TS]

  go do an internship at like the college radio station [TS]

  so that I can get though FCC license so that I can start the local interview [TS]

  show so that I could eventually work my way up to having anything like a terry [TS]

  gross interview show right part of it the part of the reason we're doing i [TS]

  mean that's truth and and you know you'll definitely helps mean because [TS]

  they tend to the editing and posting and stuff like that so it's a lot of the [TS]

  busy work as off my shoulders so that I can put more time endearing fireball and [TS]

  less time on the infrastructure of the show where an end I don't know why for [TS]

  whatever reason I don't mind I I wouldn't mind doing all of that for the [TS]

  podcast but I don't mind the fact that I am literally the only person who works [TS]

  on fireball and so when there are like hosting problems or something like that [TS]

  that it's on my shoulders I don't mind that for some reason but I do I couldn't [TS]

  handle to know why I can't say I've definitely appreciate that Manton does [TS]

  the most most of the technical work on your intuition I do some of the also [TS]

  kind of annoying work like some of the sponsor booking and invoicing and junk [TS]

  like that it all adds up in the end of the day sometimes do say wait a minute I [TS]

  spent like ours today in doing the stuff that's not really my quote unquote job [TS]

  but just getting back to that though this this is a luxury that also just [TS]

  kind of enjoy and say well you know it's not my so called job but while I have [TS]

  afforded this opportunity you know being on Twitter all day long it's not really [TS]

  my job either but [TS]

  it's kind of fun and it opens up it opens up opportunities he didn't know [TS]

  would be there a lot of this though it really is you know and I think we it's [TS]

  easy to overlook it as the years go on and we get more and more used to just [TS]

  assuming that the internet access but that's it in a lowercase L libertarian [TS]

  sense the internet really does show it proves a lot of you know libertarian [TS]

  principles that you know that the fact that you don't need an FCC license to [TS]

  launch a podcast you just need a Web server that can serve you know mp3 and [TS]

  AAC audio files and you know an RSS feed that you can put things into its really [TS]

  don't need to do much to get it started really just need to do the work of [TS]

  actually recording shows and you can have a show and it's led to a fantastic [TS]

  world where you can find stuff that is of niche interest to you as a listener [TS]

  and just fill up your hours with this much of it as you want but I would you [TS]

  know I wouldn't be where I wouldn't have the show in the show is financially [TS]

  successful you mean we really you know a great great sponsors i interrupting a [TS]

  minute I tell you that another one but [TS]

  III Starwood invites I wouldn't do it if I had to go through jump through hoops [TS]

  like you would in the days before the internet to do a show I mean I don't [TS]

  know how I don't even know how great you know you have to have a radio station [TS]

  and who would hire you wouldn't happen [TS]

  related interesting thing is that no matter what you were kind of like [TS]

  pursuit is if it involves getting your message or your content out to people [TS]

  who no longer have the excuse or the sort of like approval metric like being [TS]

  quote unquote published being having your show brought by ABC having your [TS]

  book published by Penguin and that's kind of like that's that like the [TS]

  libertarian you know he said lower case L libertarianism where there's no [TS]

  authority making the call but then of course it's all on us as individuals who [TS]

  decided one day like I could do a radio show would have to work our way through [TS]

  any ranks to do that which is kind of terrifying too because it's like for [TS]

  instance I could write the so-called Great American Novel and get it out to [TS]

  thousands of people and it could be really terrible idea but that is that is [TS]

  the new way I think so just give things a try and hope that you're on the right [TS]

  track [TS]

  alright let me tell you about her second and this is great it's Pocket Informant [TS]

  and have it by us and it's a full-featured planner that lets you [TS]

  manage your event [TS]

  tasks notes and contacts all in one place think about [TS]

  free iPhone pre PDA's member when everybody when he'd carry around those [TS]

  Franklin Covey planner type thing you know a little notebook that had calendar [TS]

  pages no pages in a rolodex type contact that it's the digital version of that in [TS]

  one app so instead of having separate calendar app to do happen and no tap or [TS]

  something like that it is the equivalent of all that in one out and they just [TS]

  come out with version 3.0 beta testing it and it's really really polished and [TS]

  impressive it's a really impressive out and I think the best part about it is is [TS]

  the way that lets you see everything that ones and so in terms of if you've [TS]

  got a lot going on you've got a lot of to do's you've got a lot of stuff on [TS]

  your calendar and stuff like that you just want to see what the hell is going [TS]

  on the next day or two [TS]

  this app gives you love you for that and it's really really interesting it also [TS]

  this is an iPhone app integrates with the calendar and reminders on your phone [TS]

  it syncs with Google calendars and tasks it also optionally if you want syncs [TS]

  with Toodledo it syncs with ever know all of your events and tasks can be [TS]

  shown together on the same calendar or you can filter down just what you want [TS]

  to focus on so if you just want to see your notes you can just hear notes just [TS]

  want to see to do little checkbox things you can do just that little tab right [TS]

  the bottom one tap filter down just to that [TS]

  Search Search is everything so if you're looking for a thing and you know that [TS]

  has something to do with jacket while there's not a lot of matches for that [TS]

  just hit Search jacket it's going to show just the things involving Daniel [TS]

  jacket I assume everybody out there is at least a few tasks related to you [TS]

  sure feels like it these days yeah I mean half the people that they're [TS]

  probably going on your podcast they've got smart task filters and now this is [TS]

  interesting thing that lets you create custom groupings of tasks that you'd [TS]

  like to see so you can have this big pile of everything that you ever wanna [TS]

  do and it's a big list but with these the Smart Filters you can filter them [TS]

  down to these little sub list to focus on the ones that are related together [TS]

  today views you can just look at the stuff you wanna do today [TS]

  natural language entry so you can just type in meet bob for coffee every Friday [TS]

  at six and the right thing happens it creates you type that and it creates a [TS]

  recurring task on your calendars at 6 p.m. that says yeah bob coffee every day [TS]

  just show up they've got rich text formatting which in on iOS I mean you [TS]

  know this that's it's like i don't pull that off so you can set your own files [TS]

  you can set colors really really well done just little touches is the thing [TS]

  that really shows that it's a three point out is that they've got whether [TS]

  integrated and it's a great it's the weather stuff is great just look at [TS]

  today and it just gives you the weather and if you want more information you can [TS]

  expand them get more whether all sorts of stuff it's really really great check [TS]

  it out now here's where you go [TS]

  Pocket Informant dot com slash talk-show Pocket Informant dot com slash the talk [TS]

  show [TS]

  version 3.0 is brand new so if you've ever looked at it before you want to [TS]

  look at it again and iPad version of course they've got it can sometimes [TS]

  version 3.0 really got their act together and the iPad version really [TS]

  really to me [TS]

  gives you that same sort of overview that you can get from the old days of [TS]

  using those those physical desk planners because you can see so much so go check [TS]

  it out my thanks to Pocket Informant for sponsoring the show so packed your stuff [TS]

  so here's a question for you as the guy who writes mars it which you didn't [TS]

  start Brent senator Brent Simmons out you took over at bar it from Brent when [TS]

  how long have you been doing Mars lol way longer now them printed yeah it's [TS]

  been six years I think almost maybe six years I'm losing track but yes there was [TS]

  a point in which I surpassed I think brent maybe started in 2002 2003 and I [TS]

  took it over in 2007 I believe so I it's just funny I don't because it came out [TS]

  and I used immediately I don't remember how I put the daring fireball before [TS]

  mars at it from my Mac I guess I used the web based movable type I i cant cuz [TS]

  it must be right in BBEdit and copy and paste yeah I guess that's what they did [TS]

  is I drayton BBEdit and pasted into the text fields of it it doesn't seem likely [TS]

  you would have to be fair the editing interface is on these web hosted blogs [TS]

  have gotten a lot better but that long ago I can't imagine you composing like a [TS]

  fireball length I say well the other thing too is that Mars atticus if it [TS]

  came out in 2003 it was there [TS]

  and this shit with my memory is that I didn't start the linked list part of [TS]

  daring fireball until 2004 so all I had world full articles from 2002 to 2003 so [TS]

  it wasn't 67 posts today it was two three maybe four posts a week but [TS]

  probably more like two or three posts a week and so i i i actually literally [TS]

  think that the existence of mars that it made during fireball what it is today [TS]

  because without it I would have never started the linked list I wouldn't do it [TS]

  if I had to do it through the web interface and movable type right now I [TS]

  never would have occurred to me to do because it would seem like such an [TS]

  enormous pain in the ass yeah you don't want anything where there's the turn of [TS]

  the shorter and more [TS]

  off the cuff the thing you're publishing is that respect it's like that's where [TS]

  the friction of going to the web can become the most grating and i think [TS]

  thats interesting places what's funny is that also there's there's different [TS]

  things that drive people to something like mars the opposite is true when [TS]

  people are used to just writing like the long form stuff in the web browser then [TS]

  go over the years I don't know how many copies are sold to people who just like [TS]

  had the browser it's your content bug happen again that something happens far [TS]

  far far less than it used to but it's interesting that you could have the [TS]

  experience of it just being kinda like very pertinent to you in that sense of [TS]

  just like quickly getting stuff up there that would be too much trouble to kind [TS]

  of go in login to do but then on the other hand it's also very very useful to [TS]

  people who want that like I wrote this on my Mac saved it on my Mac and it's [TS]

  not going anywhere [TS]

  the long form stuff as well now in brent was doing it I know that Brent and and [TS]

  you know this is one of those things were maybe brent is almost [TS]

  too sensitive and over thought it but his idea was that if he's writing a [TS]

  generic blog editor that's the tries to support every blog or even blog type CMS [TS]

  that has a remote editing API support that he needed to be neutral towards the [TS]

  mall and so his own blog he wrote his own blog software for so that instead of [TS]

  say using WordPress and then a people's it will you use WordPress so that's why [TS]

  your app works better with WordPress then blah blah blah where is the truth [TS]

  is it works better with WordPress WordPress has better API support then [TS]

  some other thing right now I always kind of thought I was interesting that stance [TS]

  he took and I did I don't think I still don't quite get it I think he over [TS]

  thought it it it also let's also try to look at it from Prince point of view [TS]

  where he was so like in the midst of this big like he was a big part he was [TS]

  like a you know this kind of like emerging blogging RSS type thing I think [TS]

  a lot of people were paying attention to what brain didn't he probably yeah I [TS]

  felt that my attitude about that has been almost diametrically opposite [TS]

  because [TS]

  and sort of like lends itself to my interests in like doing lots of [TS]

  different projects at least for a while lots of different blogs at least for a [TS]

  while I tried to make a conscious effort to have separate projects on separate [TS]

  systems so so as to be able to say ok this this is my wordpress blog this is [TS]

  my blogger blogspot blog blogspot blog [TS]

  and then I even tried to do a tumblr blog actually start trying to start a [TS]

  tumblr blog recently in and got bit by like the inability to add at images from [TS]

  from mars at it but I had the opportunity which is like I'm not gonna [TS]

  understand what these customers are running into unless I actually try to [TS]

  use this system that they're using so like I know I didn't think I could [TS]

  really appreciate what people wanted to get out of the apt with say WordPress [TS]

  unless I had a wordpress blog that makes sense to me so what are you using for [TS]

  bits putting I'm using WordPress for that and I mean the fact of the matter [TS]

  is I ended up using WordPress more consistently across my sites in part [TS]

  because it has that level of support through the API that some systems are [TS]

  are quite at but also just I'm probably an example of what in part why WordPress [TS]

  is so successful that you can install it on almost any server if you host your [TS]

  self you can customize it and there's like a huge collection of plug-ins for [TS]

  getting a head start on that so I for example my it's putting podcast is it [TS]

  leans at least a little bit on this podcasting plugin installed and I just [TS]

  took some of the work out of that and what does it do [TS]

  does stuff like automatically sense that there's an enclosure on the blog post an [TS]

  enclosure you know saying a reference to an mp3 file [TS]

  if it if there's no closure on the file that it is it says mp3 on the on the [TS]

  post then it not only packages all that up in the way that makes sense to iTunes [TS]

  but I like automatically reads the size of the file off of that length in [TS]

  minutes hours and stuff but so that automatically inserts you know I can [TS]

  have this on your networks as well as you can go to the page for an episode in [TS]

  his play the episode right there [TS]

  automatically inserts media player stuff like that and does it do it with the [TS]

  2005 yeah so it works on iPhones and all that and it's magic [TS]

  yeah you know I was just thinking about last night because it's a little off [TS]

  topic I guess but it it sort of related to that with the 2005 is that the world [TS]

  is so quickly like the the people depending on flash player for audio and [TS]

  video playback are disappearing at such a fast rate now that it's it's [TS]

  surprising when I'm on the iPad iPhone and run into something that I can't play [TS]

  at this point just last night before I went to bed I wanted to watch Elon Musk [TS]

  at the 11 conference all things D and it was like just posted earlier in the day [TS]

  and you know I don't know it's like they're adequate down in the hold their [TS]

  whole team is at a conference and I just had to start my head like this is going [TS]

  to go away it was going to work for me was I was downstairs only to head was my [TS]

  iPad [TS]

  airplay it to my AppleTV and I thought this isn't gonna work out but it's gonna [TS]

  need Flash to watch you know in the morning up on my desktop or something or [TS]

  just not even watch it and I went to the thing and it just worked because of [TS]

  course it has you know it's my five support [TS]

  and I just remember there were so many people who when I came out without Flash [TS]

  support who were so damn sure that it was now never gonna work nope there's no [TS]

  way that people are going to give up flash player because flash is already [TS]

  there and just worked and it's you know it's just one of those things where the [TS]

  people are so wrong about that are never going to revisit that an admit they were [TS]

  wrong [TS]

  yeah well it's one of those things to our depending on what I didn't quite get [TS]

  it until I think it really at all cuz I was very dismissive of anybody who [TS]

  thought you would require Flash like for the long term and then I had to kind of [TS]

  grudgingly admit that for example this whole class of like kids games from PBS [TS]

  and etc that my kid played we're all like flash-based [TS]

  ok though there is a there is a ton of stuff out there that today or in at that [TS]

  time 2010 you can't use that then I think you're right now it's like it's [TS]

  getting to the point where you yes all these like all the flash games and stuff [TS]

  are still out there and occasional like very I don't know what's wrong with them [TS]

  restaurants will still require Flash for their menus or whatever you know what's [TS]

  really change that though the iPhone is really change that to it really is [TS]

  because I think I think restaurants in particular it's because they want to [TS]

  appeal to people who are already out and I like can we get in at this place where [TS]

  is this place you know let's go to the New Mexican place you know that the [TS]

  iPhone has driven away that have finally driven restaurants off flash-based web [TS]

  sites [TS]

  yeah I think any of them that have like the wherewithal to notice that and/or [TS]

  the budget to change whatever they don't you know a lot of these restaurants and [TS]

  especially if they're like not glossy restaurants than you just happen to like [TS]

  have the misfortune of somebody having like sold them a solution in 2007 that [TS]

  they're stuck with Intel [TS]

  but but that was that's the way I would put it is not how much Flash content is [TS]

  out there now but who is commissioning new Flash content today right nobody [TS]

  would be done I know even adobe is finally done it would be something [TS]

  experts out there who are battling flash where's tried to make this argument that [TS]

  Flash is going to have a big comeback and you don't want to be caught without [TS]

  flash on your site when the big comeback comes right but that's as the the plug [TS]

  in your time outside sounds like it does the right thing and it's you know and [TS]

  it's the same lines of why I like using Marzena and why mars headed really [TS]

  inspired idea for the linked list but it made it made think it was something I [TS]

  might want to do because like you said you said the word for action taking out [TS]

  the friction because it's not complicated it's not hard I give your [TS]

  program the markup involved of getting an html5 audio player in to post on your [TS]

  website is not as I understand it but if you had to do the market by hand every [TS]

  week it's a pain and yes [TS]

  whereas you can't just tell the software [TS]

  here's the description and it's just text it is right the description and [TS]

  here's the file and it's just an audio file and the right XML and HTML comes [TS]

  out the other side when you hit a button it's it's just this it's like a weight [TS]

  off your shoulders [TS]

  difference in all that time he saved is you know it's the time that he's gonna [TS]

  give you even the possibility of squeezing this one other project into [TS]

  your busy schedule like you know there's a level of complexity for instance if [TS]

  you didn't have the help of your networks and you didn't have great audio [TS]

  recording software integrate my computer that can handle it all there's a level [TS]

  of complexity where you wouldn't do this show and there's these are all the [TS]

  little things that add up and that's that really that friction word is what [TS]

  keeps coming back to me and I'm sensitive to that that's why for example [TS]

  I don't see myself using Twitter if they ever made it so I couldn't use a desktop [TS]

  app of some kind [TS]

  yeah right I'm not gonna go login to post my you know funny to me and five [TS]

  other people thought that just came to mind I can on their website is a fine [TS]

  website but if I had to use the Twitter website used for Owen used where exactly [TS]

  that's why I think we're a minority actually but yeah but that's why I hope [TS]

  that they and I think like the renewed like they've had a lot of renewed [TS]

  activity in their own clients yeah like for a while it seemed like not just that [TS]

  they were anti third-party clients which they still are I mean they still have [TS]

  this disease severe limits that are really I I really hope they revisit them [TS]

  the third party thing is different but it really seemed almost like they [TS]

  weren't just anti third-party clients but that they were anti clients period [TS]

  and that their own apps were and after you know they they really want to be [TS]

  able to use the Website and I feel like you know the reason I thought that was [TS]

  frustrating was that most people do already the mass market already does [TS]

  just use the Website let the people who care enough to want the apps use apps [TS]

  and may just make everybody happy it's so hard to go wrong [TS]

  making people happy users customers whatever you want to call them if you're [TS]

  making them happy [TS]

  you really age you're you're on the right track and if you're doing things [TS]

  that make some significant portion of them unhappy that's a good sign that [TS]

  you're you're wrong in with Twitter I think you know I get the argument people [TS]

  have given that they had their nest by and they have investors they need to [TS]

  make money they need to prove that they can make me to take take control of the [TS]

  timeline all this stuff I guess what I'm optimistic for is that once they get [TS]

  past that kinda like nervous zone then they can loosen up a little bit and I [TS]

  you know I could even imagine somebody some investors somewhere saying [TS]

  what are you gonna make money if you let all these third-party clients do [TS]

  whatever the heck they want right and maybe even somebody at winner could be [TS]

  thinking well that's just John Gruber deadlock only two people and they'd [TS]

  still they still want this argument to say all right this is our plan going [TS]

  forward we're gonna take control of the timeline right don't don't fight against [TS]

  people's desires of but if it had worked out differently and it ended up that 90% [TS]

  of the people using Twitter wanted to use third-party clients if that's what [TS]

  they want and they should go with it and figure out a new way to make money from [TS]

  it if as long as you've got millions and millions of people using it there's [TS]

  gotta be a way to make money on it you know i mean that's really what inspired [TS]

  me to do the RSS sponsorships enduring fireball was that I you know and it's [TS]

  been so long now it seems like ancient history but at the time I am I free RSS [TS]

  feed the default one that anybody could just sign up for didn't have the full [TS]

  content on the site and on your head [TS]

  exerts of articles so that you have to go to the website to read the articles [TS]

  cuz my thought was well that's only place where I've got ads and so I can't [TS]

  just give you know put all the articles in this RSS thing because you know [TS]

  everybody who does that is decreasing the number of people who read the ad [TS]

  supported stuff and then I had you know paid feet were you do you know if you [TS]

  buy the teachers and improve membership you get a little username and password [TS]

  and then you could read these fields are filled with the full content and that [TS]

  way ok there's no ad but you're giving me 19 bucks a year which is fantastic [TS]

  that's great that you know way more than enough for reader that's you know easily [TS]

  justifies full content but the problem I ran into was Google Reader which was the [TS]

  thing that everybody so many people wanted to use but Google Reader didn't [TS]

  support password authenticated feel ya and I thought at first I thought well [TS]

  they'll get around to it and you know it's Google though get around to an end [TS]

  didn't and I just kept getting email after email after email [TS]

  I'm trying to use my I just paid for this thing for decades in nineteen bucks [TS]

  and his amazing impasse really can't go toward Google Reader and I thought he [TS]

  gave us some time I thought of course it doesn't support feet because the Google [TS]

  works at scale and Google that therefore it sa there's ten thousand people [TS]

  reading the daring fireball feet are you know I don't buy more a lot more that [TS]

  hundreds of thousands but I'll be humble and say its 10,000 they don't want to [TS]

  check the feed 10,000 times with 10,000 username and password combinations they [TS]

  want to check the field once and they store it and then the 10,000 people get [TS]

  the content from Google right Google's by checks the field once she's there's a [TS]

  new article and then they send it to the 10,000 people that's how Google and if [TS]

  you really if you look at the actual numbers and you know i said i mean [TS]

  there's literally hundreds of thousands of people signed up for the feed through [TS]

  google reader it you can see how it just doesn't make sense from Google's [TS]

  perspective to to support user names and passwords but so instead of fighting it [TS]

  I thought was going to be a way that I can make this work so many people want [TS]

  to use Google Reader and they want full content I I'm lucky that there's all [TS]

  these people who want to read what I'm writing this way let's do it and now I [TS]

  don't know I guess I could just so a sponsorship once a week and that [TS]

  wouldn't annoy people and I'll just put it in as an entry instead of putting [TS]

  like an ad in the in the entries are make the add an entry in the feet and [TS]

  it's raining it's worked out great it's turned into the primary source of income [TS]

  for the site but it was only because I didn't want you know I wasn't afraid to [TS]

  say and and the membership thing was great it was you know at the time it was [TS]

  the most successful thing I had done it but I wasn't afraid to just throw it [TS]

  away because so many people wanted something where it was never going to [TS]

  work and by doing that I came up with something that was you know way more [TS]

  profitable and easier to administer you to maintain the right to have his back [TS]

  in liability [TS]

  that's how you remind me talking about that actually this interview going [TS]

  fleischman did on his podcast with Cory Doctorow and one of the things Corey [TS]

  said that struck me because I think I've been kinda like coming to terms with [TS]

  this kind of stuff myself lately he talked about the distinction between [TS]

  when a problem becomes a fact like like when you like he was talking about like [TS]

  like ads ad rates for four newspapers and it was a problem for a while like [TS]

  they were going down in the Nike one day it just becomes a fact that they're [TS]

  never gonna go up again and I think about this stuff with the App Store is [TS]

  that a problem for me that Apple requires my apt to be sandboxed well for [TS]

  a while it's a problem until maybe you know if I want to see in this business [TS]

  it's just a fact so that's kind of what you ended up doing and it gets kind of [TS]

  reassuring to know how well this is a pretty dynamic business and everything [TS]

  shifting all the time [TS]

  all these problems are either going to go away or they're gonna become facts [TS]

  eventually it's like fighting the tide right and maybe in a whatever reason [TS]

  you're down at the shore and you really don't want the tide to come in it's not [TS]

  a good time for it but if the tide coming in it's coming in there's nothing [TS]

  you can do about it so you better figure out a way to go with the rising tide [TS]

  then you know somehow try to build a sandcastle and fight off the type that [TS]

  coming in the middle a sponsorship and will wrap up I wanna talk a little bit [TS]

  more about Mars it but I'll a sponsor longtime friend of the show Squarespace [TS]

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  it you unite if you don't check out Squarespace where space.com and the pass [TS]

  code password code is talk show's sex [TS]

  how come there's no iPhone version of Mars it now don't get me started [TS]

  save this further towards the end of the shows that there will be a natural [TS]

  protection here but I softened yet this is how you know I don't know it's a part [TS]

  of it is there's a lot of its 23rd 2013 Daniel I know it's frustrating to me [TS]

  actually that there is no mars at it for iOS part of it is just that just that [TS]

  pure and simple one person running that company it's hard for me to make more [TS]

  than one substantial product and even though it would have the same name [TS]

  Marzena for iOS is as you know and iOS app that has a counterpart on the Mac [TS]

  has to be a dramatically different product you could share almost certainly [TS]

  the backend code that communicates to the various API's that's right right but [TS]

  the the interface would be a hundred percent knew absolutely I think I think [TS]

  that has to even stuff like the syntax coloring would be different because you [TS]

  know a test text and the you i text you used in the UI stuff for texts all [TS]

  totally different yeah all that all of you staff will be dramatically different [TS]

  and the extent to which I don't make make no mistake I've been thinking about [TS]

  this since day one of the iPhone thinking about how much sense would make [TS]

  first of all how much money could I make second of all what kind of tradeoffs I [TS]

  have to make third of all [TS]

  and then what are the high-level design differences in the use cases are [TS]

  different too for like four if you're using mars added on her iPhone for [TS]

  example you're not going to be typing out you're insane you know the whole [TS]

  long new SNL general who writes long blog posts on his iPhone all Malik [TS]

  really yeah he writes with a chord with the keyboard I don't think so you know I [TS]

  don't I don't know I think he actually typed them out on the on the phone [TS]

  keyboard to go to own blog says sometimes I he just put out a review of [TS]

  not not not not going armed but his personal blog a take home . Co I think [TS]

  it's a super cool URL oh and I'd CEO I think that's a double check the ad is it [TS]

  what I'm reading today which is how awesome is that if you look at his [TS]

  review of the galaxy s4 he says he wrote it on his iPhone and I don't think so [TS]

  with draft with drafts on his iPhone those people who do it so i dont have [TS]

  you may be underestimated although I do agree though that the average person [TS]

  probably well yeah I post a lot from my iPhone especially I'm going on vacation [TS]

  something like that but it's a lot shorter typically [TS]

  links right yeah but I you know I'll add content stuff like that and I have a [TS]

  bookmarklet that makes it so that I can you know it's it sends me over to the [TS]

  great plugin from I T Y emptied that Brad Choi Cho CH 0 89 known for years [TS]

  chote chote and somebody else's six-part Road years ago [TS]

  but it it just makes movable type look right on the iPhone in actually in many [TS]

  many ways actually makes movable types web interface way better than the [TS]

  version on the desktop it actually it's not just like a stripped down version [TS]

  it's just like just clean it's really good so I don't because of that I don't [TS]

  crave Mars edit for iPhone as much as I would without that but I do and [TS]

  especially know and I'll tell you know you know what the problem is the biggest [TS]

  problem is that you can occasionally wired going back and forth between tabs [TS]

  in Mobile Safari if it runs short term memory it'll just wiped out and if [TS]

  you've already SAT there and painstakingly thumb typed couple even [TS]

  just a couple sentences and then you come back in it reload the page and it's [TS]

  all gone [TS]

  agent is so there's a it's like the old walled world browser problems from the [TS]

  desktop or start new world problems on iOS [TS]

  that almost never happens anymore thankfully desktop browsers but [TS]

  definitely happens any iPhone yeah so long you just haven't gotten to it I [TS]

  just haven't gotten you know it's one of those things too I have a list of [TS]

  unfinished projects that is it's one of my one of my definite flaws is my [TS]

  distractibility and interest in new projects jumping into things like making [TS]

  a podcast I'm not gonna lie that that takes some time away from you know maybe [TS]

  making our customers at it but as just another problem is just completely [TS]

  rational mode here it's a challenge to take something like Mars edit this such [TS]

  a future filled app on the Mac and then get comfortable with whatever subset of [TS]

  those features is that you're willing to to ship the 1.0 s and that is [TS]

  that's hard when you're making a new products hard enough when you're making [TS]

  a new product right because you have your own personal idea about what [TS]

  everything how everything should work can you ship the app and everyone's [TS]

  gonna hate the fact that I left out [TS]

  XYZ features but when you're sipping a version of an existing app it's really [TS]

  easy to get caught up in fears about that like you know it's going to be you [TS]

  know mad that it doesn't support this Publishing feature of WordPress who's [TS]

  gonna be mad that it doesn't support rich tax would say who's gonna be mad [TS]

  this that and the other thing and so for example I can look at someone like you [TS]

  john is a wino Johnson gonna be mad if it doesn't support rich tax I know johns [TS]

  I can be mad if it unless Tappan interface junking it up never gonna turn [TS]

  out exactly so and another example would be happy if it was a movable type only [TS]

  starters let's say well i'll be satisfied that would make me happy I [TS]

  wouldn't be like gleeful that other people can I would be like he's on his [TS]

  support want you might even be staying under your breath love he's an idiot but [TS]

  this is quick word present [TS]

  left unusual whatever you can use it I'll tell could alter the movable type [TS]

  satisfied but yeah it's it's a it's a chance you know you remember I made a [TS]

  talk about this at the first singleton where that's already two years old now [TS]

  sort of coming to grips with my own inability to start to finish and ship [TS]

  this thing but what can I say one of these days is going to happen and then [TS]

  and then we will move on from there I just like I'm not one of these are some [TS]

  people out there who are still these Mac developers who are convinced that like [TS]

  iOS is like not worth pursuing or it's like it so I don't know it's for toys [TS]

  games and [TS]

  MCA's good to be here forever and these people to me I'm committed Mac Developer [TS]

  but these people are sounding more and more to me like the people who were [TS]

  convinced Mac OS nine was here forever if if I were starting a new app and it [TS]

  was like a utility type AB and it made sense to maybe have iOS and Mac versions [TS]

  of the same app I would do i would do the iPhone version first [TS]

  not not even iPad iPad 2 iPhone first I have to say maybe they'd be exclusively [TS]

  depending on the app because it's becoming a very near and dear to my [TS]

  heart [TS]

  market community but it is a specialty kind of power user market more and more [TS]

  maybe it makes it might make sense I know you're saying because the idea [TS]

  would be wouldn't be that the Mac doesn't matter but that if you have [TS]

  limited resources you're always gonna get more results out of pouring those [TS]

  resources into the iOS version because the opportunity is so immensely large I [TS]

  think that's the thing that old-school Mac developers maybe are just they can't [TS]

  wrap their heads around is just how large the iPhone iPad market is because [TS]

  we're just not used to mean we're all happy that the Mac is thriving and that [TS]

  the Mac audience has grown over the last 10 years which is great but you just [TS]

  can't fathom how much larger the iOS marketers I can't I just know it is that [TS]

  much larger but I really it's almost like it doesn't make sense to me it [TS]

  doesn't make a lot of sense to me but the important distinction for me and for [TS]

  a Mac developers out there is it is a huge market and that is clearly not [TS]

  enough for us otherwise we would have all been Windows developers the whole [TS]

  time right that's not a reason that's not yet know it's not the one who's this [TS]

  unique combination of huge market and a compelling interest in platform and a [TS]

  lot not all people because there's no there's clearly a lot of people using [TS]

  iPhones and iPads you don't even care about the quality of the interface of [TS]

  that they use [TS]

  but there's clearly a subset of them who do and you know it still is the [TS]

  different we can go for another hour and talk about the whole market shared [TS]

  profit share stuff but part of it and the Tim Cook thing at the deal Levin [TS]

  conference where he keeps talking about the you shoulds that show that people [TS]

  use the iPhone lot more than Android users use their phone for the web [TS]

  browsing and FRAP installing in all this stuff what that means is though is that [TS]

  the people who care more and to buy iPhones and iPads not all of them not [TS]

  that everybody who cares and makes a very thoughtful informed considered the [TS]

  decision to but which phone to buy chooses an iPhone but that the more you [TS]

  do the care and think about it the more likely you are to choose an iPhone and [TS]

  that means that the market of people for the apps is predisposed to appreciate [TS]

  the things that Mac developers have always cared about which is sweating the [TS]

  details [TS]

  putting nice touches in making just making nice dense yeah and then with the [TS]

  market as huge as the iOS market even if it even if only a tiny even if only five [TS]

  percent of that market is that kind of attention to details [TS]

  appreciation I don't know the numbers of time I had probably five percent of the [TS]

  iOS market is comparable to the Mac market right now that's probably about [TS]

  right but maybe is if anything it's smaller right so the Mac market is huge [TS]

  today it's bigger than it's ever been and it's enough to sustain one-person [TS]

  companies like me and then you look at something like the iOS market to say [TS]

  even if I know it can be followed to look at the markets and see if I could [TS]

  get X percent but yes there is a significant portion of that market that [TS]

  is right up traditional Mac developers alleys and I bet I want to get in there [TS]

  and I have fun when I play with iOS development it's just time management [TS]

  and you know there's also the little things like [TS]

  making money on iOS is not not as obvious right not as clear then you know [TS]

  I know other people who have dip their toes into iOS and then kind of recoil [TS]

  back to the Mac because even with the kidney little market we we charge 40 [TS]

  bucks for our software people think that's cheap right now it definitely [TS]

  makes a difference I will wrap up and it's gonna give you a hand because of [TS]

  your power alright you too nice there was an easier when i when i when i when [TS]

  i when i hit with why is there no iPhone version of Mars it done is instead of [TS]

  instead of answering it is you should have hit me with why is there no iPhone [TS]

  responsive version of durable because it all you know people in glass houses [TS]

  shouldn't trust and so will your face that its 2013 same thing applies to the [TS]

  fact that when you load during fireball on your iPhone that still doesn't [TS]

  explain why isn't there was the other thing that you were heard the several [TS]

  months ago on your show I think the the web fonts thing I haven't you adopted [TS]

  right why am I still wise it [TS]

  testa said P X and it's because you have a helluva lot of things to do and that [TS]

  one hasn't bubble up to the top yet more or less than what I said that's a good [TS]

  answer now that's that's my head off the cuff answer today that's my vicarious [TS]

  answering vicariously through you right answer but feel free to take it no [TS]

  well it's you know that's exactly right to its bubbled up but it's not quite at [TS]

  the top [TS]

  it's always it never gets higher than like number two and number three and [TS]

  then something else is always at number one with the other thing to add to that [TS]

  the web funds is I want to I've had people say the design hasn't changed in [TS]

  10 years that's not true if you go through it has changed in subtle ways [TS]

  but it's always been 11 P X Verdana for the body fun and it held up for ten [TS]

  years and you know it's definitely looks dated now but if I change I will change [TS]

  but when I change I want it to last for the rest of my life [TS]

  I would like to change the fonts and then that's it because once now that web [TS]

  funds are available I can pick [TS]

  funds are available I can pick [TS]

  find that should never get dated represent you got it that that we having [TS]

  that attitude going into it ups the ante right incredibly right you got to [TS]

  measure you know they say measure twice cut once will I measure about three or [TS]

  four hundred times and I cut ones that that's going to be my new one line [TS]

  response actually to iOS I'll take that one from you you can take the bubbling [TS]

  up for me and we'll move on with that right daniel thank you for your time [TS]

  this has been a great show its let everybody know again all this stuff [TS]

  where they can find your work so we've got red sweater software that's gonna [TS]

  get it right red dash sweater dot com that's right red dashed weather.com mars [TS]

  that it is the big one area that splitting dot org is your new blog and [TS]

  your podcast and then we're scoring tuition or intuition is that core and [TS]

  dot org [TS]

  they gonna be at the UTC ya gonna be standing on the steps of WTC passing out [TS]

  fliers competing with the crazy three people for June you won the lottery to [TS]

  get a you you got in the 92nd window where tickets are available you got a [TS]

  ticket but then immediately our rather than be happy about it you decided that [TS]

  would explain this device I mentioned my high horse show got of course I but I [TS]

  got down off my high horse just long enough to stand in line with everybody [TS]

  else at 1:00 p.m. Eastern Time reloading frantically the WTC page and got in [TS]

  reloaded I heard your account of this to my mind just like yours ok reload reload [TS]

  reload you can buy click Buy ok yes yes yes yes I don't care what it is yes you [TS]

  have a ticket [TS]

  allegedly coming soon [TS]

  that was easy yeah we all do so you you had that experience to right right so [TS]

  you and I were both thinking at one o'clock and 33 seconds wow this was [TS]

  great although everybody got in yeah I'm gonna go check in with my friends and [TS]

  everyone everyone I know what I was doing the same thing so we all got [TS]

  tickets and then I just start seeing how I had the ticket in my cart 0 wouldn't [TS]

  even let me get into the ticket only wouldn't even let me log in one of my [TS]

  friends is supposedly had a ticket but then when they when they put their [TS]

  credit card thing in it it fun for a while and came back with it like [TS]

  czechoslovakia company from great [TS]

  revealing other members information anyway it was kind of a kind of a [TS]

  classic Daniel punkass high horse moment I tried to it was one of these things I [TS]

  didn't understand why I was doing it at the moment I was doing it on instinct [TS]

  was like this is as I think I remember I tweeted I saw the first of all I went to [TS]

  the site to the store and I was frankly surprised that they had an option on the [TS]

  store canceled order I just thought you can in like this is the one thing you [TS]

  would ever want to cancel and then I thought I'm seeing all my friends you [TS]

  know people who some people who have you even ended up getting tickets afterwards [TS]

  but friends like Marco Arment said I think chris Christie got one Marco [TS]

  Arment didn't get one man sin Ricci know he's like the most earnestly wanting to [TS]

  attend WWDC guy I know it really makes you doubt that there's a God right so [TS]

  then I'm like you know what this is I'm in the wrong club here it's like in [TS]

  retrospect I started looking at it in the metaphors that came to mind were [TS]

  like [TS]

  I just ran the race of my life and I'm like panting at the finish line and I [TS]

  came across and I broke the ribbon and I they hand me the gold medal and there I [TS]

  congratulations you ran a great race and I looked behind me and like people have [TS]

  been tripping the other runners and like you know firing like sling shot at them [TS]

  and I just had like an easy breezy run and then I find out afterwards that it [TS]

  wasn't a fair run and so you cancel your order so I canceled my order I [TS]

  instinctively and not sure if I would believe me it was a little stressful but [TS]

  I i I did it took me about two minutes to make the call because I was also as [TS]

  I'm thinking this I'm also like I said this is not real they're not really [TS]

  offering to let me cancel that doesn't make any sense but then I thought what [TS]

  if it's like you know what if this is my chance and so they cancelled it and I [TS]

  felt the urgency and the stress anxiety rather of deciding the most Jocketty [TS]

  thing you've ever done it did but you're still coming out to San Francisco I am [TS]

  coming to the tocqueville live thing absolutely yes I was there last year had [TS]

  a great time looking forward to a different location now so I'm sorry [TS]

  everybody out there tried to get the tickets and you did I'm really sorry [TS]

  maybe next year I'll try to get it an even bigger place but all of you know [TS]

  looking forward to it and we've got one more show next weekend in the next one [TS]

  will be the live 10 you know that yet and did remember John just looking for a [TS]

  bigger venue is more than Apple has done anyway bits winning dot org red sweater [TS]

  dot com and where's current tuition with you a man whore in dot org [TS]

  alright that's great that Daniel jacket thank you for your time and thanks for a [TS]

  great show thanks for having me john [TS]