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56: OS X El Camino

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0:00:00I don't feel like there's a lot going on you should there's a lot going on so you

0:00:03know what's running before you texted me yesterday added to to get on this this

0:00:11just shows how was thinking where is the talk show episode for this week

0:00:17turns out I met exactly but if you let down from me but I must be thinking

0:00:23where the housing new show and then you find out your own show

0:00:26yeah exactly do you like it but yeah but I like it like I said I was a kid I

0:00:30didn't think we had him to talk about and then when I thought about it and a

0:00:34lot has happened so a lot has happened it's good that means you have an agenda

0:00:38ya go to last year I have a few things I have a lot you know it's a classic slow

0:00:48sad news period but I mean look at this link the new phones came out I was seven

0:00:53came out Mavericks NGM

0:00:56second enders who's to use passing

0:00:59apple vodka you think Microsoft had some crazy shit going down into video games

0:01:08and actually thought about what happened this week there's been a lot

0:01:13yeah there's a lot of the sound like a lot but there's not a lot of talk about

0:01:17with a lot of that you know like with the panic in video games thing sounds

0:01:21cool it really does it say they're they're sort of investing in little

0:01:26video games start up with some really cool names attached but but you know but

0:01:33you know what the cool part of that is going to be when actual games come out

0:01:36not just the announcement and events it is what it is he got covered on polygon

0:01:40interview with it cable and the guys there yeah

0:01:45school districts adding something to upset about this week I was about

0:01:55anything that might be the problem the problem might be that nothing made me

0:01:58angry

0:01:59yeah pretty straightforward I think the 64 bit thing I like a marketing gimmick

0:02:07yeah I think that's still interesting I feel like there's like this there's

0:02:12there's still a contingent of love and it's funny because I feel like the

0:02:15people who heard the most skeptical about it are somewhat technically

0:02:20informed but there there is a subset of technically informed nerds who also the

0:02:29Venn diagram is don't like Apple or don't trust outboard don't think Apple

0:02:33stuff is technically cutting edge and that at the intersection of them as

0:02:42people who think that the 64 bit the movies 64 bit is like maybe even almost

0:02:46a scam to work with my cash writer or did you not overlap you guys did

0:02:58overlapping you guys we worked to get a little bit when I was working and and he

0:03:05really really did however right up his blog piece unsorted was a 64 bit and you

0:03:11just got a layman's overview and informed layman's overview of what the

0:03:16actual advantages of 64 bit and I've emailed that to some people who like

0:03:19getting my email is often should sell access to my email but I you know it's

0:03:26not as vitriolic as as comments would be but it's you know it's it's acerbic from

0:03:32the people who don't don't like the stuff that I write you know you know but

0:03:38you know I'm friends with Mike and

0:03:42he got email there was basically arguing with you which is directed at him

0:03:48telling him he's his blog posts to technical and I don't know if you know

0:03:54he does not take that kind of shared a little momentum of you that he does not

0:04:01suffer fools exactly that I couldn't think of a better way to describe you

0:04:06should have seen what it is but yet a very very small piece that explains

0:04:15exactly what the benefits and pros and cons and are not just affect the chip is

0:04:23sixty-four beard but this software changes to the runtime that it be made

0:04:27to take advantage of it right and that's where he really covered well that's what

0:04:31I really I have to say going and it wasn't I kind of knew vaguely the stuff

0:04:37that there was a lot better but that really that's the heart of it and I

0:04:41think maybe in basic terms in general if just platform just call it a platform is

0:04:4832 bit computing platform and then you move it to 64 bit in general that

0:04:53doesn't necessarily mean anything gets faster it might even get so yeah you can

0:04:58tell anything just by doubling everything doesn't doesn't know right

0:05:02it's it's almost like like the canonical logical argument that ok there's a

0:05:08hundred hundred bills of money in a bag and one guy takes 10 of them and get an

0:05:16idea who got more money

0:05:18yes you can answer because you don't know the value of the denominations that

0:05:22the guy who took the 10 bills might have taken all hundreds and the other guy was

0:05:25left with $91 bills you know it's it's it's very productive to just be like

0:05:31well this one's got 32 bit or 64 bits go twice as good just doesn't work like

0:05:39that all right you have to know the specifics but in the specifics of this

0:05:44move of iOS and they seven armed going from 32 to 64 it actually is a lot of

0:05:51very practical advantages yes both in the chip in the there's sort of you find

0:05:57the ISO which is the instruction said did you know the assembly that is

0:06:03generated as you see good less is good ways of doing stuff and it's sort of

0:06:10like Kraft the can accumulate and going to disarm 64 I said it does away with a

0:06:20lot of the craft and so the hitting reset but yeah and they take advantage

0:06:27of that often when Apple Genius architectures Creek the objective on

0:06:31time because it is the Briton binary compatibility anyway so since binary

0:06:39compatibility is going to be booked in they take that opportunity to do fancy

0:06:44stuff the projected time that the kind of unable to do up until that point in

0:06:50the case of the m60 for the deal with them because this pointers 64 bit and

0:06:58they don't need all those bids to accurately represent what's in memory

0:07:02they can do some fancy tricks like having

0:07:04pointers which means it let's say you've got a number you don't actually need it

0:07:11to point to a number you can sort of encoded in line in in what is

0:07:15essentially appointed

0:07:17defacto it is sort of an in-line memory object that seems like one of the bigger

0:07:23ones they came away with is the fact that they don't need all 64 bits in a 64

0:07:28bit pointer for the printer itself use those extra bits very judiciously to

0:07:33stash some information about the object itself or the pointer big win

0:07:38here's the one thing somebody sent me somebody and I can't say who it was a

0:07:42friend that Apple but in my gashes piece he wrote in short the approved the

0:07:48improvements to Apple's runtime make it so that object allocation and 64 bit

0:07:52mode costs only forty to fifty percent of what it doesn't 32 bit mode if your

0:07:57app creates and destroys a lot of objects that's a big deal and what my

0:08:02friend Alfa Romeo where they just quoted that part the city if your app creates

0:08:06and destroys a lot of objects he said that every so maybe if you're writing

0:08:12let's say a game where the game is only very thin layer of cocoa and it's

0:08:18everything else inside is all custom C or C++ or something like that it may not

0:08:24be as big a deal but there might be other graphics headlines but like for an

0:08:27app that actually doing a lot of standard iOS Coco stuff it's a huge win

0:08:32because object everything's an object yeah that's exactly the case if you

0:08:37braiding Coco you are allocating objects left right and center especially now

0:08:41that it's been made even easier like they hear your ideas but recently couple

0:08:49years ago they added

0:08:52Objective C language so you could you could you could add sign and then a

0:08:59number and I would allocate I can annus number which is a class which represents

0:09:03a number in the old days that would actually have to be like an actual

0:09:09allocation to allocate a small object and now these days with the way that

0:09:15they've rejected the user take pointers and everything that's it's effectively

0:09:19for free so there's a lot of really good wins in a lot of small places that you

0:09:24wouldn't expect but did you know they really do it right I think and so I

0:09:28think one way to look at it is that for most iOS developers the ones that are

0:09:33let's say most non game developers and I think it almost makes sense to separate

0:09:37them because even if you look at the Tech Talks right which are going around

0:09:41the country they've broken up into two now where there's the games one and then

0:09:45everybody else one yeah and I think one way to look at that is are you writing

0:09:50mostly cocoa and Objective C code or you mostly writing sort of cross-platform

0:09:56graphics code for the games for the cocoa people iOS and Mac OS 10 to

0:10:04especially as the years have gone by and and carbon assorted been put out to

0:10:08pasture and even absurd officially are technically carbon absurd really now

0:10:12mostly Coco internally because you know they can do that

0:10:17that the the operating system is more than just what you think of as an

0:10:21operating system it's it's the operating system plus that that Coco runtime on

0:10:26top of it yet and that's where a lot of these you know not all but a lot of this

0:10:33the advantages to going 64 bit and I was 7 really take effect

0:10:46I'm one of those guys who would do 64 bit build because it's not that

0:10:52complicated anyway given the you've been very encouraging you know he doing ok

0:10:59I'm sure didn't spend a lot of time getting this proved to be 64 know even

0:11:04said on his blog I mean literally just a couple minutes he had a couple of

0:11:07buddies it was but it was a couple of things in them is easy to search and

0:11:10replace for throughout the whole so for me personally I wouldn't necessarily

0:11:17need to take a long time evaluating the benefits and would just do it because

0:11:21it's not that big a deal and it they're typically telegraphing with it went to

0:11:25go and that's what brand marlys of behind the scenes was that he'd really

0:11:30does if anybody has a hard time goings has no sympathy for him because Apple

0:11:35may not have actually said they were gonna go 64 bit on iOS iOS soon but he

0:11:40would you know brent perspective was anybody even if you weren't a Mac

0:11:44Developer all even if you're relatively you know if you your introduction that

0:11:47Apple development is iOS you should at least have had the common sense to know

0:11:51that you know iOS trails Mac OS 10 by a couple of years in terms of cards yet

0:11:57some regards and one of them would be 64 bit frankly this is a particularly when

0:12:04I would've guessed I would guess next year

0:12:08yeah yeah like a higher and iPad you know maybe not the media I think I

0:12:18mention this on the show couple weeks ago after the event but I was at the

0:12:22event when I was in the audience I was two seats over from a 909 attack and

0:12:28when they announce the 64 bit thing there are a couple people before the

0:12:32show everybody you know we all just sit around waiting for them to let him

0:12:35everybody starts taking guesses what what might be a surprise and couple

0:12:38people did say that but it was sort of like a

0:12:41just should check but when they announce that I looked over at him on and he

0:12:46seemed like surprised he was and I was like ok and there must be a surprise you

0:12:50know and I i asked him after he said yeah I woulda thought I would have

0:12:53thought that was a 2414 thing yeah I was really can before the event you know

0:13:03there was a couple of 64 bit rumors but there's always liked you know that new

0:13:09mini yes there's there's always a I told him he had something running on 64 bit

0:13:15I'm sheds whether or not that actually product is a totally different question

0:13:20you know and figuring out what the product is actually going to be that see

0:13:26if rumors is a totally different game I'm glad they did this thing looks it

0:13:31governor debate weeks are crazy

0:13:39very very pretty just

0:13:43accessing large amount to memories know what the point of this ship is right and

0:13:52one thing that I've heard it's a one on one PC speculation that's become quick

0:13:58comment is did if they do an Apple TV to compete with his next generation of

0:14:03consoles it'll be built on this which i think is pretty obvious you know they're

0:14:09not going to ship something that's not on this picture

0:14:13yeah I would definitely think that that's the case I mean I whether thats

0:14:18gonna happen this year I would think no I would just think common sense says

0:14:23know that the chip is probably too expensive to put in a $99 Apple TV and

0:14:29it's probably too too too hard to make right now they'd rather you know what

0:14:33why waste time in the $99 Apple TV when there are still three four weeks behind

0:14:37shipping the fight I tend to agree

0:14:40the other thing is is that whatever the Apple TV console de slashed living room

0:14:48thing is going to be the next generation of consoles from Sony and Microsoft

0:14:53coming out with eight gigs of ram and is no way you can put it into a $99 right

0:15:01well maybe they would I mean they're already there for example I mean they're

0:15:06definitely behind in RAM compared to you know cutting-edge Android devices I mean

0:15:10I think if I Vestal as one gigabyte around and I think like the most of the

0:15:15top tier and red concept to pics yet I'll come back to that in bed but I

0:15:22agree I don't think that they would try to compete in terms of raw performance

0:15:26and I think a lot of these articles are you looking at this this new i7 chip in

0:15:31being really excited about its capabilities and China projected into an

0:15:35Apple TV are really seeing it as did

0:15:40I don't think they're appreciating how hard it would be to get that kind of

0:15:44power in the kind of price point Apple TV sales but maybe next year maybe next

0:15:49year

0:15:50yeah exactly so with regards to the Android have any more RAM I think a

0:15:56bunch of that has to do it the more RAM you have them repaired and we talked

0:16:02about this

0:16:03offline before I think maybe this on the show I don't know but if you got like

0:16:09two gigs of ram you need to power there and I think so just wait till I don't

0:16:16empower you know one gigabit and only power the second gate when using I've

0:16:21never heard of anything like that

0:16:22haven't heard that you have to do some crazy swapping stuff in order to get

0:16:27that working out enough never heard of that be the way the more RAM you packing

0:16:32you mean the more chances you see packing device the more power you did a

0:16:36great part of the chain oh well and I still think and i know i've i've sort of

0:16:43banging this drum for years but I still think it's very telling that I know that

0:16:47we can't even talk on this later in the show that's one of my ideas reagan maybe

0:16:50is next year would go with a bigger screen iPhone at least as an option and

0:16:56I know that way more breath is spent wondering why Apple hasn't already gone

0:17:02to a bigger screen and will they go to a bigger screen soon whereas I feel like

0:17:07the thing that doesn't get attention is how come if the current iPhone with a

0:17:11relatively smaller screen and smaller form factor is the single most

0:17:15profitable device in the industry which nobody denies it is the single best

0:17:19selling phone in the industry wide why still don't any of the other you know

0:17:25like Samsung or somebody like that come out with a top tier SPECT phone of that

0:17:29size and I can't help but wonder is that they can't that they don't you know that

0:17:33there

0:17:34the power consumption that they're going through to get the performance that they

0:17:38have that they need a bigger battery and that's why they have one of the reasons

0:17:42why they only had attended you that I think that if they did naked device the

0:17:48same sort of size and form factor then it would be found wanting in battery

0:17:53life the screen would be shittier fast maybe they couldn't call it as well

0:17:59whatever you know I think if they went to tell in the exact same sort of form

0:18:06factor they're just not as good IT hardware Apple you know maybe Nokia yeah

0:18:14and Nokia's the only one who's done it I guess you know although I think it's

0:18:18questionable I feel like you know you could argue that the Lumia is that are

0:18:23the highest regarded and have the best performance are the bigger screen ones

0:18:28but some of the first ones were in a relatively speaking about iPhones and I

0:18:33don't think it's any surprise in Tokyo was the only other company to do it

0:18:36yeah I don't either but they felt they just haven't seen one of the bigger

0:18:41screen one but yeah I totally expect Apple screen next year if only because

0:18:47they think now they're getting it today remember the first few years

0:18:50iPod we're just be after iPod and they just getting bigger more features and

0:18:58then they started diversifying the line I think we're at the point and I for now

0:19:02we were gonna start diversifying having a large screen one effectively iPhone

0:19:09pro which is you know you go to your game and then did you know the disorder

0:19:15more consumers from five see I always forget whether spoke about on the show

0:19:19it's not in the show so if I'd said the Sun maybe I said this on the show last

0:19:23week with months but I still think it's a good question

0:19:26alright clearly there's some demand for a bigger screen i've but I feel there's

0:19:30two entirely different groups who want a bigger screen iPhone one is relatively

0:19:36younger people who have good eyes and want to pack more pixels on the screen

0:19:40so they can fit let's just say if they're reading

0:19:43they can fit more words on the screen at one time the other group is in general

0:19:48relatively older people who have were size who want the same amount of tax but

0:19:52they just wanted twenty percent bigger so that the same data text is different

0:19:58and and how would you implement that one group I think you would want like you

0:20:04know way more pixels per inch they wanted a higher density screen the other

0:20:08group would want what's effectively like the residue

0:20:11264 pixels per inch of the current right now

0:20:16iPad and just cut five-inch iPhone screen out of that same display but I

0:20:22don't see how you make both of those groups happy well so one argument effort

0:20:26for me to remember where I got this from somebody pretty smart but if you get

0:20:34where you want to be attributed in a lot of the world

0:20:43you get to pick one computing device and phones

0:20:49kemal and tablets too big and so you can get a phone like a sort of a mid-range

0:20:54so to screen you can accomplish sort of like to have a DES like I had many sort

0:21:02of stuff on on her phone on something that you can carry in your pocket you

0:21:07know me like it's it's clearly compromised down the line but it but it

0:21:10works if you wanna go one kind of device yeah I think you'd probably want but I

0:21:17don't think that that market is necessarily sensitive to that it's more

0:21:20sensitive to lick well this device would have a sweet spot for you know certain

0:21:30markets I think that some of the note for example is it really is almost silly

0:21:35devices use it doesn't but I feel like maybe it's there's a practical advantage

0:21:43to only carrying one device not you know the guy I think that's too big but I

0:21:48think it does sort of its popular right now while its popular enough and I was

0:21:53able to actually where I was I wrote about this last year was a year ago but

0:21:57it was when I was switching from AT&T or Verizon before the iPhone 5 came out I

0:22:02wanted to get my account switched before the phone came out to suit all be in

0:22:06order so I had to go into a Verizon store and it wasn't there I was a couple

0:22:10that the week before the iPhone came out wasn't by the thought it was too

0:22:14to ask a guy to Verizon story if this is what I'm going to do is it is it gonna

0:22:18go off without a hitch and while I was in the Verizon store it was

0:22:23you know I would say she's probably colleges but role you know real short

0:22:27very short woman was in there you know why you say she was just just just left

0:22:34his college age and then but I think the fact that she was small emphasize she

0:22:40was there looking for

0:22:41got it phone and she and her boyfriend was with you sure you don't wanna knife

0:22:46and she was like right out of a commercial for Sampson she was a no I

0:22:50want you know I don't have a tablet and I wanna do a lot of reading on it so she

0:22:53was gonna buy the Galaxy s3 or whatever the current year ago and then she even

0:22:59said she was obviously well-informed too because then she said I you know I think

0:23:03she and she said can I was even thinking about the note and I think Verizon

0:23:08didn't sell the note and so that was the only if Verizon had sold the Galaxy Note

0:23:13which was even bigger should have bought that she wanted to stay in Verizon so

0:23:16she just wanted the exactly what you mean this is you know I was just there

0:23:21overhearing exactly that she didn't own a tablet didn't want to buy a separate

0:23:25tablet just wanted one thing and I've heard from a lot of people that actually

0:23:29like a big part of the overall sales of these five inches bigger screens are two

0:23:35women in asia and you know who are you know just you know demographically

0:23:40physically smaller and certainly their hands are smaller but they like it

0:23:43because they only have one device to carry and they don't have to worry about

0:23:47putting in a pocket because they have a person with them at all times and they

0:23:50just put it in your purse so it doesn't matter if it doesn't fit in a pocket

0:23:54so would be stupid for your iPad to make calls it is it always is to stick it up

0:24:03your face but it comes with us here but with a talking well any other thing too

0:24:08is you know you don't have to get me anywhere you know that's even vaguely

0:24:13touristy you you don't have to go far before you see someone with the full

0:24:17screen iPod or iPad taking photos with it so if they're going to hold it up and

0:24:21take photos and then why not hold it up and make phone calls I don't mean it is

0:24:25kind of stupid but it's stupid but I mean it's stupid not to do that i mean

0:24:32it does FaceTime FaceTime I think that the thing with using iPads as cameras I

0:24:37see so many people doing it that it's it's like the the repetition of it is is

0:24:45eroding the comedy so many people are doing it that it you can't make fun of

0:24:52it anymore because everybody's doing it was like when the kids wear the pants

0:24:56that their ass showing yeah I clicked the sagging jeans after five or six

0:25:01years of that you just can't get bored of thinking it's stupid it's just the

0:25:05way things are and I'll tell you where I see I'm in any kind of kids event you

0:25:09know little league game

0:25:11school players who might that I mean it's unbelievable how many parents have

0:25:16the iPod iPad in front of their face the whole time just holding it up videoing

0:25:23holding cash that's that's we went good I guess I don't know but I thinks

0:25:32there's something about it they don't i mean maybe they know that they look

0:25:35stupid but they don't care what they have a maybe maybe when you record you

0:25:40did you just did not give it would anybody thinks it's a good one it I want

0:25:46to capture this may be the x-factor on that too is especially for like video in

0:25:51something like that so the argument against using your phone to do it is

0:25:54like the Louie CK argument right but is more or less

0:25:59how about you just put your fucking phone in your pocket and enjoy this

0:26:02moment for real for once you know they hear these kids up on stage singing her

0:26:08heart out being embarrassed and nervous in front of all these people how about

0:26:11you just be in the moment and just enjoy it and remember it I like we going with

0:26:18his cuz you about to say that with the iPad it's a larger screens exactly right

0:26:22it's not so much that you're watching it on a little two or three inch screen

0:26:26missing you're watching it on its own ice cream still which is not the same as

0:26:30watching it for real but it's almost like in terms of your field of vision it

0:26:34is you know relatively comfortable it's interesting I think Louie CK would still

0:26:40have plenty of fish yeah definitely we have but it might explain why people do

0:26:48that so yeah but I so I do think that Apple do I think it's inevitable yeah I

0:26:55think so I think and I think may be the way to go is to put more pixels in it

0:27:01but maybe have some kind of way into settings to you know within a day in

0:27:08that direction that they're going with the the dynamic to say I you know

0:27:14alright I got this bigger phone and as all these pictures I want to text bigger

0:27:18and then when you adjusted and settings once that hopefully systemwide not just

0:27:24in Apple's apps button third party apps will take that Q and make stuff bigger

0:27:29rather than pack more on the screen they mean they can defaulted by device is

0:27:36nothing saying that every day to deal with SSL the same default device should

0:27:44you got a device with a wacky resolution you could just type right it could even

0:27:49be the default is bigger tax and that the the younger nerdier people who want

0:27:54to pack more on screen would have to set lower expect other people to set a

0:27:58higher ok I honestly expected the IP

0:28:01enemies r-iowa 72 have different default type settings I did to the president

0:28:09yeah well I mean that I was seven on that but not quite fully baked yet

0:28:15yeah I think I mention this to I think I actually think they even got worse with

0:28:20the gym I because I was running the bases on iPad and the iPhone over summer

0:28:24and I feel like it got worse with the iPad with the gym I'm still some really

0:28:30kind of surprise announced today that they released it at the same time I

0:28:34really thought maybe they would do like 7.0 would be iphoneonly and we have to

0:28:38wait an extra month for 7.1 and then it would support ya Kos what people want to

0:28:43start like when they had just like the iPad only build yeah I mean I don't

0:28:49think it was a disaster for them and it doesn't seem like it's been a disaster

0:28:52but it is clearly still i mean you know that the WWC right it's just always

0:28:58seemed like it was tracking three weeks through four weeks behind the iPhone

0:29:01version and it still did even when they released the GAO

0:29:05yeah I don't know one thing I've seen over and over again is it you know i i

0:29:10relied on my email on the iPad just catch up on email the end of the day and

0:29:14a lot of my email is you know people send me links at Apple Inc and Apple Inc

0:29:18and usually shoot over to Safari and you read loading you read it but every once

0:29:22in awhile at Apple Inc and I just get like a white screen just wait and it's

0:29:27you know I'm guessing that it's like flushing memory or something like that

0:29:30but it takes a long time 56 seconds and even when it's not happening I can't if

0:29:34I click the home button nothing happens it's his locks up for 56 seconds and

0:29:39then support comes in it's all back to normal but that's very unusual get two

0:29:44days that you click yeah ok so you do eventually get yeah but it's just a very

0:29:49unusual for iOS wait I mean I think it's more or less

0:29:53the the iOS equivalent of Pakistan's rainbow cursor right they just don't

0:29:58show you the rainbow never been killing me it is I were 73 has internet taps

0:30:06thing which just means that I now have infinite number of tabs set up you know

0:30:12somebody told me I had it I said that but somebody told me that there is no

0:30:16limit I think it's like 32 I'm I guess what and don't actually have an infinite

0:30:23but it got way more than like a deal on my Mac and are complaining I felt but it

0:30:34is kinda funny like they used to be pretty disciplined about like it opened

0:30:37something and it had read it within a day now I've got a to Micro yeah hoping

0:30:42that next few weeks ago and she probably didn't write like on the one hand it

0:30:46really sucked when you had all eight tabs lots filled up and you opened the

0:30:50ninth and it would overwrite the oldest or whatever it used to figure out which

0:30:54one would overwrite it would overwrite one of them and if you don't remember

0:30:57what it was you have this nagging feeling about there was something

0:31:00important I had an attack I'm lost it but in a weird way it's it's almost like

0:31:04disciplinarian like every major like to read it and closed it or book market but

0:31:13either way do something with it and get out here and whereas now yeah sorta like

0:31:18you I'm surprised I haven't had the 32 limit yeah me too I actually really an

0:31:25express I do like the fact that they show you all the tabs open only other

0:31:30machines that's awesome yeah I think that's great I think that's one of those

0:31:33little quiet places where for me at least iCloud is working great

0:31:37yes 2010 I should follow it on this but if I engage do not disturb and this is

0:31:44only for people like us who are two stories like stacks and he seems like

0:31:48around but if I put do not disturb on one phone I just want that to put all my

0:31:53devices

0:31:54I got a bad I do not disturb and then get an email and it's got to turn it off

0:32:01in like 30 2012 happen to have an extra terminal just keeping it yes to being a

0:32:07device setting it should be a service said yeah like Cloud accounts like any

0:32:15any machine that has the Maya my iCloud account should also shut up until yeah

0:32:21yeah I could see that gave Golden bit of course looping back to the arm 64

0:32:30besides the Apple TV console fantasy stuff a lot of people started talking

0:32:36about sticking this chip inside a Mac yeah I did too I should I get done like

0:32:44publicly I just said today that it was announced as I can't help but think you

0:32:48know this procedure you know I don't think you're doing my laundry shocked if

0:32:55it's not running in the labs right I would definitely think so there's no way

0:32:59it's not otherwise you just crazy weird weird weird everybody is trying to do

0:33:07something in for a couple reasons you know i i think for one thing once Mac OS

0:33:1410 moved to 64 bit on on Intel couple years ago

0:33:19clearly any future transition to another platform was also gonna have to be 64

0:33:25you can't go back to 32 bit

0:33:27but I think for other real good but I don't think it would be weird right i

0:33:35mean they're good at spotting marketing stuff at times I don't think I just

0:33:38don't think that but I think for a couple of other reasons too though like

0:33:43when they describe the new arm

0:33:4664 instruction said and the whole day 7 as a whole is being a desktop class

0:33:52architecture they punch that word times they also punched oh here's one thing

0:33:59for the A six did they were describing inside 25 °c like it if they kept

0:34:08punching console Evan gaming so level graphics and then the a seven was even

0:34:15better

0:34:15explode away and just waited a pic words randomly like when they say desktop

0:34:27class CPU they they want to evoke exactly that sort of thought they want

0:34:34to revoke the conspiracy conspiracy theories of the next MacBook Air is

0:34:37gonna because it's just a powerful well and i also think too that way especially

0:34:43with the MacBook Air MacBook Air and this is one of those areas to wear where

0:34:48you know the iPhone has clearly gone this route now where there's two new

0:34:53devices one of them is about having cutting-edge specs and being like

0:34:58high-end you know very you know the most expensive phone on the market and the

0:35:02other one is about being still great but more about other things right with the

0:35:07MacBook has been like that all along they've always been tears and the

0:35:11MacBook Pro is you know has the Retina screen now you know obviously has as

0:35:17much higher performance than the air the air is always about being lightweight

0:35:21really thin

0:35:23battery life ditch the optical drive early right as his team was auctioning

0:35:29the very first ones I think it was always a sissy I don't think they've

0:35:31ever had a movie a was you can get a spinning hard and it was placed right

0:35:40but it was like what was the point because exactly performance was bad and

0:35:43everything ya know you're right so I feel like they could do that they

0:35:49couldn't theory I think put an arm 64 chip in a MacBook Air and even if

0:35:55performance takes a hit on certain benchmarks if battery life doubles again

0:36:00and they could say you know here now if we have a Mac with 21 hours of battery

0:36:04life that's a win because of your concern is the performance you're buying

0:36:08a MacBook Pro anyway yeah I yes it's so I'm speaking at Coco confident the end

0:36:16of the month in my target actually all about power management and I don't know

0:36:22I think people have been chasing this current track analogy way too much juice

0:36:28I mean its debt that that was what Steve Jobs explanation is Iowa's devices in

0:36:35this the Mac and will always have the Mac is the magazine trapped in the iOS

0:36:38devices around and everybody just needs a car to get around that was circuit

0:36:422010 which is at the deed whatever All Things D conference about three months

0:36:48after the original iPad came out yes

0:36:51and people keep trying this out over and over and over and I i mean less again

0:36:58but everybody knows he just so you know I think there was a metaphor to describe

0:37:04the situation at the time I don't think that is anything set in stone it's not

0:37:08an immutable fact the way to computers work I think then rather than just

0:37:14seeing cars and trucks I think we're going to end up seeing a continuum of

0:37:20performance versus power consumption and you know and you can't even look at it

0:37:26you can take you know if you want to you could look at it and say there's all

0:37:30sorts of different trucks to there's everything you know

0:37:33yeah you get UFC 150 right now we've got one of the giant which is to make

0:37:41through versus you know my kid lit legitimate Metro that'll be out in about

0:37:46a month ago nothing versus a macbook pro vs MacBook Air Force's an iPad programs

0:37:53iPad with a bunch of extra money

0:37:56storage all the way down to look a little watching something right or

0:38:06you've got something like a member the El Camino Ave El Camino up in canada

0:38:11yeah yeah yeah you know what I want but I wanted to evoke I gotta say is that is

0:38:21the Microsoft Surface a demotion

0:38:27no compromises no compromises to cards truck it's not even just a current

0:38:35attract its sporty car it's a muscle car and that's the problem with it is

0:38:40combined Vegas sports karadzic but it appeals to ascertain like you can say

0:38:49look a Subaru it's kind of a similar sort of hybrid and super 8 for Subaru

0:38:55had one like that I forget what it was all better fuel Subaru welcome you know

0:39:01they had a car that was like a suit like

0:39:05Kamina Daddy super the BRAC look at this

0:39:11you gotta go to the Super have you seen you look at this link

0:39:17yeah I remember hanging out with you got his Subaru Brat and pratt was an acronym

0:39:27for by Dr recreational altering holy crack that is saying you don't want you

0:39:34will see about the draft though is that they didn't go the sports coat job

0:39:40tracking do it it the superb read I think looks like like something that a

0:39:49couple of really clever high school kids yes taking auto shop

0:39:55could could do to a Subaru station wagon yes like they would get hired

0:40:01immediately into

0:40:03designing automobiles yeah right out of high school and then they would be

0:40:10embarrassing yeah but it is at this ones you know seems a little bit more

0:40:18practical but anyway it's like you said there is a continuum even between cars

0:40:22and trucks yeah I think they're holding anything that Steve said to preciously

0:40:28is a mistake just in general I don't think he held anything he said so I

0:40:34don't know why everybody else

0:40:36well i i think just take a look I think that he only meant that metaphor that

0:40:40analogy at a very very shallow level which was that look for a while

0:40:44everybody drove trucks and a you know if you're going to buy a motor vehicle you

0:40:47might as you have to haul stuff around and then all of a sudden there was you

0:40:51know a market opportunity to come out with something that we just moved the

0:40:55people around and didn't have all that cargo you know there's a certain speck

0:40:58in terms of what you can haul that cars you know come out almost practically

0:41:03zero like what you can put in the trunk of a car compared to the bed of a truck

0:41:06is tiny and you know it's true then and there is a point though were the people

0:41:12who you know a diehard truck users are going to assume that everybody needs it

0:41:15and they're gonna say nobody nobody can get by but this and I think that's true

0:41:20that so I would ever talk fully but definitely I see that there's going to

0:41:32be continuing between these things and I i think you know like an armed 64 in the

0:41:37MacBook Air I don't think that's crazy

0:41:40in fact I bet you working there now whether or not it'll be a product that's

0:41:50that has to do with things that we can't possibly guess from the outside

0:41:56yeah and who knows you know it could it could really come down to you know some

0:42:02kind of shoot your meeting you know between Tim cooking and whoever else and

0:42:05executives from Intel and you know they come into the room and there's already

0:42:10the machine running you know here's the here's a prototype running now what kind

0:42:17of deal you wanna give us yes exactly

0:42:20and the funny thing is is it until just throw money at Sampson if you want I can

0:42:28remember from hearing this rate but I seem to recall that maybe they did that

0:42:32with like I did with IBM

0:42:35before they went Intel they showed like the last PowerPC you know what I used to

0:42:45know the code name for them but that they needed one trying to get IBM to

0:42:50actually you know they were begging and pleading they did not want to go to the

0:42:54power PCs right and true I was pretty good just told you start out there so

0:43:02the thing with the power PC as they would IBM was actually developing power

0:43:07chips actually called she's power something but they were high and service

0:43:12yeah yeah they were like you know they were competing with Sun SPARC chips and

0:43:18you know the heavy duty late nineties early two thousands kind of workstations

0:43:25workstations glass chips and the power PC was cut down versions of those and

0:43:33they had promised to be able to fit into a laptop and they just could never get

0:43:38the g5 in there because its way to hot which is kind of a surprising when you

0:43:42think about it because it taking something is built to be working with

0:43:47you no air conditioning fans and all kinds of stuff and you know trying to

0:43:51stick to the laptop it's clearly but if stretch there so this

0:43:57new way of coming out from the ARM chips seems interesting gives us another

0:44:04interesting thing is to identify a an application class where we are required

0:44:15a lot more performance over the years like recently during a mean like seems

0:44:20like we can edit Word files fine you know I mean Rick maps media but even

0:44:26acts more CGP used I feel like I feel like some of the performance stuff

0:44:34recently and one of them I for one of them I feel you can never underestimate

0:44:38is is how computationally expensive HTML rendering yeah like it's you forget

0:44:46about shockingly

0:44:48this investment rate when you try to text is as well but we never used we

0:44:54never used the but prior to iowa 7 you know whatever the text you is that you

0:45:00know what i'm saying is like what people don't understand is if you want to

0:45:05proper training and if you want to measure the lines per correctly just

0:45:09simple just good proper text layout is actually computationally expensive

0:45:12especially when it's in a view that you expect to be able to scroll with your

0:45:17finger at 60 frames as you need to sort of Italy iteratively sold the Lego Harry

0:45:22going way out the text inside of me becoming a little bit extra to find out

0:45:26but the end like you know depending how you see the alignment now it's all

0:45:37expensive and then add in all the arbitrary layout stuff that you know a

0:45:41modern HTML engine do and its end up being very expensive and you can tested

0:45:46I remember testing it with the original iPhone where everybody knew that the

0:45:50edge you know that the cellular network in with super super slow on the original

0:45:54iPhone but even when you were on why fight it took a long time to reply to

0:45:58render web pages

0:46:00general you don't see any more is that you know that checkbox patterns used to

0:46:05school to terry has come a long range so that's one area where performance is

0:46:12still a factor I do I just read this week there is a good piece on MacRumors

0:46:16maybe was last week about deejay and Vijay from the rhythm and the

0:46:23performance gains they saw just by recompiling 464 like the same app before

0:46:28they recompiled 464 ran it on the iPhone 5s so it's you know and it's not when

0:46:35you run a 32 bit app on the 5s it's not emulated it's you know it runs 32 bit on

0:46:42code natively yeah they've actually got a separate section of the chip that will

0:46:46just 132 big coat right

0:46:4832 per code is executing they'll just cut power to it so there is a classic if

0:46:54you guys don't know djane Vijay there these you know really cool but I don't

0:46:59have this crime but you know they're like it for like was indeed a program

0:47:04and program they can mix video in a similar way both very very well done but

0:47:09even even deejay the one just for music though is graphically intensive in terms

0:47:13of having these controls the track your fingers so you can sync up the two songs

0:47:18and do all the stuff that DJs dude to scrub and they must get that as soon as

0:47:25possible and it's super smooth going 64 bit just recompiling

0:47:29without rewriting to Sri compiling 464 way more performance so that I think

0:47:37there's definitely stuff like that so I agree I just think that there was this

0:47:44crazy our I think there

0:47:46in the minority use case probably I think one of the areas where which isn't

0:47:52to say everybody but I think everything started to show ya I know details but

0:48:02once you know what i'm saying is I think maybe now we're camping out in terms of

0:48:08what we need in terms of power and sorry in terms of computational speed and

0:48:16maybe now what we want to be going for his I never want to put my computer

0:48:22yeah yeah like when they be great to get two solid days out of an iPhone still

0:48:29get one day but have to be a little faster yeah I mean average is 1 p.m.

0:48:32this week can we talk about that I think so I'm gonna

0:48:38and you know the major features of that our policy meeting and this isn't a

0:48:42desktop OS in 2013 to head out find it fascinating that sort of the major push

0:48:50air is is too

0:48:54to make your Mac act more like an iPhone I think that's definitely the case

0:49:00wholesalers do this for sponsor reagan and that's about however with 50 minutes

0:49:06any shipments calling it a bit early to start wanting to start the first one

0:49:13early bird outcome if you've ever read certain me god bless you because you

0:49:17know that the companies that most of the company's la register domains all there

0:49:21to do it registering a domain is named in their business their businesses up

0:49:25selling you with all sorts of stuff you don't want if you don't check the right

0:49:29box you gonna buy by accident

0:49:32there's there's their scams really they really are I'm not going to name names

0:49:35but you can probably take against some of the companies however is the complete

0:49:39opposite they never try to upset up so you on anything all they want to do is

0:49:44so you domain names with a great interface a great management interfaces

0:49:48after you register domains and offer you good services that you might want from a

0:49:54domain registrar like who is privacy and domain forwarding features that you know

0:50:00actually makes sense for domain registry they make the whole process easy to get

0:50:05a.com address for.net Dodd co Dods CEO that's what we got 44 Vesper app . me or

0:50:14just about done anything you wanted to legitimate top-level domain they make it

0:50:19easy to search for available domain names which is often one of the hardest

0:50:24parts and they make it easy to see what's available

0:50:27similar to what you're looking for what top-level domains you can get the the

0:50:31word for

0:50:32if you have any problems at all they are well known throughout the industry for

0:50:37having great customer support you just call her in a real human being answers

0:50:42the phone and I'll take care of your problems they even have something called

0:50:46Valley transfers so if you have a domain somewhere else at some domain registry

0:50:51that you're unhappy with you wanna switch they will literally do the whole

0:50:55process of moving the demand a hug her for you and that can be a huge pain in

0:50:58the ass and they recently also didja started offering if you want Google Apps

0:51:04for domains so you can use their using Google Apps to get you know let's say

0:51:09you have your whole demeanor company your small business whatever running

0:51:13gmail through your domain you can go to hover and I'll help you integrate that

0:51:18I'll tell you what they've got is they've got a 30 day free trial to see

0:51:21what you think I bet there's no single person has taken up under 30 day free

0:51:26trial who hasn't stuck with him to go to Harvard ID com slash talk-show TLK SH 0

0:51:36W find out mourner and demand from you know what I gotta do I gotta use it

0:51:44lasers thing I gotta get it to mean it stuck on network you know the guys you

0:51:51don't forget about it all the time but I'm going to use him Valley think it got

0:52:01a few unlike some oddball registrars where I don't even remember why over the

0:52:04years that I used some oddball one off I got one domain on this one read the

0:52:09story I got it

0:52:10consolidate all have a good they have a tasty beverage with a tasty beverage

0:52:21actually ducked up to two beloved doing here a dream but we talking about

0:52:27the chips power management said we're isn't it interesting that that Apple's

0:52:33direction after 24 Mavericks both the hardware and it was really i mean that

0:52:38was the whole the whole take away from this year's upgrade to the MacBook Airs

0:52:42was really all about battery Li yeah I mean the screen which is a shame I kinda

0:52:47don't envy them working although it is a good page twelve those batteries good

0:52:52whatever 18 hours whatever but the same time since sex you know you don't get to

0:53:01do it Emily the Unreal Engine but you sort right it's definitely harder to

0:53:07demo you know I mean let's face it mean in some ways you know the Mac Pro is

0:53:12almost certainly going to be the by unit sales the least popular Mac that Apple

0:53:17makes it probably always has been

0:53:19because it's so expensive in so one of my most interesting devices looking

0:53:25forward to but it's you know it's not a mass-market device you know it's a race

0:53:30car but it demos it's great for demos because you can you know that's the one

0:53:35where you can do that you know you can run the most advanced demos you can

0:53:39possibly think of right you can do you can create video you know or graphics

0:53:44demos that could only run on a Mac Pro so it's great for demos and and you know

0:53:49what's the MacBook Air and probably almost certainly the Mac with the least

0:53:53graphics capabilities you need to do they need to look like a MacBook Air in

0:53:59a glass cube of the Vegas trip with one of those situations just as a kinder and

0:54:06stuff just have it running she would run last longer while i was thinkin bout

0:54:13whenever I go whenever I'm in an airport and you just walking down the terminal

0:54:16or gate and and you just see you know grown businessman wearing

0:54:21nice suit just sitting on the floor back against the wall because they need to

0:54:27have their laptop near an outlet yep it's a serious something to vote for

0:54:32high school thing for me there and I know it's just weird helplessness of

0:54:38this guy that's like this kinda stuck sitting in the corner with his laptop

0:54:42plugged in sitting like right it's not comfortable but it's the greatest

0:54:50commodity in an airport is battery because there's so few outlets you know

0:54:57very few airlines I mean there's Virgin America which sadly few people fly on

0:55:03their struggling they've got power outlets by the seats but most airlines

0:55:06don't so once you're on the plane it's like whatever battery life you've gotten

0:55:09your laptop when you get on the plane that's all you've got for the flight and

0:55:13Virginia Ave

0:55:15Virgin Wines can you get when I probably to Vegas no Vegas to San Francisco for

0:55:24the weekend then went to be on time I've done the opposite I have owned San

0:55:31Francisco virgin all the two quick of a fight was very nice yeah it really is

0:55:38particularly tasty but there's very few airlines I mean just because the way

0:55:43there you know that planes redesign few of the airlines have planes that were

0:55:46designed for the modern hero where people really desperately need AC power

0:55:52in their seats and who knows you know the way that everything is transitioning

0:55:56to these long life tablets

0:55:58you know by the time you know planes get refresh there may not even be an issue

0:56:03anymore and people still wanna see phones and stuff but

0:56:08version even has a mess I miss remembering I it's been a couple of

0:56:12months since I fly virgin even has USB outlets which is really way need you

0:56:17have seen a few things but anyway it's clearly and I'm not optimistic about

0:56:22battery technology

0:56:25well i think thats you know it certainly hasn't been advancing in the same move

0:56:31you know computer technology no definitely not but that's why some of

0:56:36the things some of the jumps that Apple is taken in recent years stick out like

0:56:40the fact that this year's MacBook Airs went from I forget what they were the

0:56:44year before but it was more than just like a one or two hour bump it was like

0:56:48a five or six hours yet and as far as I haven't looked at this have to do some

0:56:53musicians talking any good but it's not like the batteries got better it's that

0:56:58the software and hardware got better to me but the basic power source is not

0:57:05improving very good you know that's clear like you said that's clearly a lot

0:57:11of averages about what else is in Mavericks that battery oK so that's a

0:57:18good question there's a couple of things they play near if all of the windows in

0:57:24your app recovered you'll get a call back you'll you'll be notified and then

0:57:30you can start doing a kind of background processing because you clearly not

0:57:34rendering right you will be updating

0:57:38that seem like a big one in and of itself the fact that a window that

0:57:44obscured isn't going to consume power cuz I was it really good demo at WWDC

0:57:51yes I was sitting with his parish in where none after the show up as a parish

0:57:57in Luke Adams and whose ex gay very gay we were trying to figure out how that

0:58:05works because if you're expecting to update if you're in you know you're

0:58:13let's say you were you playing something back in the background in expecting to

0:58:17update sixty times a second dividends issues and you do work that isn't purely

0:58:24two-banded but is is to do some sort of housekeeping staff and when you get

0:58:28covered then you don't get a chance to do that housekeeping stuff what happens

0:58:32doing now what's the answer the answer is you get told when you're first of all

0:58:40you often today's

0:58:42even as a web page know we also heard it right and they juggle whatever their

0:58:48legal rights over nap to take advantages have to opt into it yet and you know

0:58:53it's very does update and guess what they don't have to wait for Adobe did

0:58:59make this work they just do it themselves with their own stuff

0:59:06and you just you basically is dominated you you when you get called rendered you

0:59:12just wondering if you don't get called to meet you doing so you try to separate

0:59:15the logic of any kind of housecleaning to do from Jake see get called on it but

0:59:22you can be told it's kind of like the way when you get swept out on iOS you

0:59:29have just gets told by Katie going to sleep well he take that principle bring

0:59:34it to the Mac gets told when her window when the window gets obscured so the

0:59:40rendering is pointless and he gets told winning all of the news in the appt go

0:59:45away so you can you know further turn back any any housekeeping

0:59:56huge win i mean and I've always known it to like you know and armed nerdy enough

1:00:03that I'll be route running activity monitor just to see what's going on but

1:00:08I'll be on an airplane and I'm writing an article and I have two or three tabs

1:00:13open in Safari cuz they're the things I'm referencing for what I'm writing

1:00:15about and I can see that safari is taking thirty percent of my CPU and it's

1:00:20because I have these things open and they're just it's just running

1:00:23JavaScript or something over and over and over again

1:00:26yeah I know it's killing my battery but there's like nothing i dont wanna close

1:00:31the window well so we feature which is currently I'm a little surprised that

1:00:39the surface this but you know had to you know quite this sort of usual level

1:00:46but if you click the battery icon Mavericks it will show you like do you

1:00:53know that how much they charge the battery has but it'll also give you a

1:00:56list of the absentee using the most energy that's pretty interesting and so

1:01:02you can click on it and just kill it and that's kind of weirdly nearly thing for

1:01:11them to do like stan is usually been trying to move away from like pointing

1:01:16out new stuff you know right there or even making you think about like what is

1:01:20running and what is not i mean you know and every couple of years they'll come

1:01:23out with a new doc design and usually the first thing they do is they always

1:01:29take away the indicator of what apps are running and then you guys hey hey hey

1:01:33come on I gotta know what's wrong and what's not running and then I kind of a

1:01:39kind of ok with him not having indicated there well you know what I mean by guys

1:01:43I people who truly at least understand the difference between an app that still

1:01:47running an app that is not yes a gang of Palace I feel that I would be the odd

1:01:53man out being like I don't want to see the little died in theory I think

1:01:58everybody would agree that nobody wants to know what happens actually open and

1:02:02closed it should all be working right which is the eyewear has always been

1:02:08exactly exactly in tractors still a Mac and it still some bullshit going on

1:02:14right and the goal should be that if your app isn't running you should make

1:02:17it is too quick to launch as possible and go break back to where they would

1:02:21you were the last time you are in so that the user doesn't even see the

1:02:24difference maybe there's a couple of seconds of difference but you know some

1:02:28mountain I and Mavericks have both added a bunch of abyei's to make that allows

1:02:33you to do you can save state and Queen you happen should I just come back to

1:02:41exactly what you were with the selection you know you can save off what you have

1:02:48selected so when you realize you had to get the same selection

1:02:51which we define a pin in what you do lose which kinda sucks is that so you

1:02:58can opt in and say that you can quickly kill my appt at any point and what will

1:03:03happen is when you switch away from a little automatically save in the

1:03:06background and then discuss some kind of memory pressure or does no windows on

1:03:12the screen or if the user just loves out your Apple be killed when you love back

1:03:19in whatever when you launch the app your act is expected to be stored state which

1:03:27you can do if you recall correctly but what you lose is the under the state you

1:03:33can keep you and your steak which to me is you're breaking the illusion you're

1:03:40not only a baking in the lesion on do is I think one of the best beaches

1:03:48computers exactly undoing is what computers do you know what the Mac style

1:03:57of interface design chapare did you mess around

1:04:01did you fuck it out and do not a problem and removing that is it that's that's it

1:04:09was you know what they're probably thirty different people who came up with

1:04:13the exact same design for tshirt and you know but I remember like back in college

1:04:17in the early nineties there is a lot of people had a short it just said I never

1:04:22had one I got it but it just said come and see the little as it was you know

1:04:29the best yeah it's good I love it yeah I mean to say that it's it's minor

1:04:37breaking the illusion yeah it's it's actually like losing the end attack is

1:04:40is losing something important it's true destructive behavior

1:04:45exactly and I think it is mostly i mean again

1:04:50to be productive you know guys like us like people that would be listened to

1:04:55the show would notice it and I don't think most people would notice it but I

1:05:00think that while they won't notice exactly what happened they will learn to

1:05:05become mistrustful I did a more seamless you make the illusion the app is running

1:05:11even when it's not the more apparent he will be did the induced at just vanishes

1:05:21its gonna feel random I think given to someone like me like I may not even

1:05:24guess right like I'm fairly technically adept I could be running napkin and

1:05:29sometimes it sometimes undue works and sometimes it doesn't

1:05:32as well it's going to seem like to me because I wasn't even aware that it got

1:05:35closed out the background because I had left it open for two days let us know

1:05:40I'm coming back to this thing I remember what I was doing and now my dad this

1:05:45stupid texts and you may have figured out we may just yell at me and I'll tell

1:05:49you what happen but it's it's an issue

1:05:56go he had something in mind I was going to take a second sponsored by Dan di ang

1:06:06by tight new sponsor what is doing it

1:06:10time tracking for people who are on your own show it's built for freelancers

1:06:18small teams and it's a product that the guys who built it these guys it's there

1:06:22it's it's the Time Tracker they wanted to use the building for themselves and

1:06:25it's meant for any small teams got all the features that managers you know the

1:06:31type of things DAGA type of time tracking software is designed by like

1:06:34managers and it's a real pain for the actual people using at work and they

1:06:38took all those features out and all they did was focus on the features that

1:06:41people actually have to do stuff during the day would want to use focus on hours

1:06:45you put in what you spend it on the money you're gonna make a beautiful UI

1:06:50at all you're actually gonna like using in your day because it just looks cool

1:06:55very fast

1:06:57any iPhone app is designed for Iowa seven and a pretty pretty slick Iowa 7

1:07:04design in terms of and i know i spent a lot of time last few weeks talking about

1:07:08what to do with the new status bar and endeavour pretty cool solution to it you

1:07:13can to see the screenshots you go to the AppStore and search for Dane but it's

1:07:18designed for Iowa 7 indefinitely looks like it so if you sign up here we go to

1:07:23sign up their website is dangerous I / the talk show the ING died 02 / the talk

1:07:31show

1:07:32if you use the promo code the talk show you get a ninety day free trial no

1:07:38credit card required up front that's amazing deal I mean that's like three

1:07:43months thats they well past the end of the year

1:07:46well more than enough time to tell this is the time track of you that's how

1:07:49confident these guys are so you're gonna like it

1:07:52the App iPhone app is in the App Store now

1:07:55brand new bill Fri 07 you can check that out just by searching for dang in the

1:07:59App Store

1:08:00my thanks to Dan anybody out there looking for time tracking software check

1:08:05them out

1:08:06it's really cool stuff very nicely designed and use it in class and work

1:08:13for my company and said I'm actually have much use for it but man keeping

1:08:20track of that stuff span the as i I used to before identifiable full time I do a

1:08:25lot of freelance where I guess you know had some full-time jobs in their most of

1:08:30my career before that

1:08:32doing freelance work and at the time I was doing freelance work there were no

1:08:35good time tracking ups not terrible yeah tell me the worst so you want to make it

1:08:44as easy as possible

1:08:45exactly she then yeah I could see mean you drive across the country in juneau

1:08:55my joke is going to be going to buy one of these are going to get out you know

1:09:00but we gotta get one like this

1:09:02yeah

1:09:07ok so dang designed for ya gonna switch and we're going to go along with

1:09:22whatever going to turn the tables on you

1:09:25Vesper I were seven ya bazi yes or no to go I S seven only yeah I don't think so

1:09:34and it was funny and back at WWDC when they first announced Iowa so I mean this

1:09:43is literally wild Britain Dave and I were all in San Francisco for the BBC

1:09:47and they announced it and it showed in a day or two to think about it and we're

1:09:52like 20 Wednesday of that week and I had a meeting on Thursday with a rapid the

1:10:00App Store just take a sort of meet and greet you know we're happy to have you

1:10:03guys in the store and you know just you know get to know you type of thing and

1:10:07you have any questions for us and I asked then when they said hey do you

1:10:11have any questions I said he would you guys think about us going

1:10:14Iowa seven for our next update I was seven and they even even the guys at

1:10:19Apple really don't know them ideal way to call you know we love we love that

1:10:25you're interested in it we want everybody to get on board with it and we

1:10:28know we want everybody to you know to designed for it but I was seven only

1:10:32right out of the gate we don't know I don't know about that you know that you

1:10:37know think about their do you think about it but the more we thought about

1:10:41it without who is our current audience our current audiences clearly people who

1:10:44are a little bit more dirty right people who know read during fireball know who

1:10:51Brent simmons's

1:10:52there clearly gonna be a day at the leading edge of that you know what is a

1:10:57200 million people very updated 27 and we knew it was going to be like that

1:11:02I I don't know how many people there are who you that's where users who still

1:11:08cleaning tile with six you know maybe for good reasons but doesn't seem like

1:11:14it's been a support issue for us we have had if there are if there are complaints

1:11:17about that I don't even know about it I think it was a no-brainer

1:11:21identity theft protection could use in supporting both six and seven is it s

1:11:26one thing as shown in 28 you know what I don't know a quota because could this

1:11:32could be second hand but didn't compare the rollout of the day the ACA website

1:11:412007 yeah I just saw that yesterday that fascinating as that I don't think it's a

1:11:48knock against Apple crusades more that leg it's such a cultural touchstone now

1:11:53the yeah you can just compare one to the other as technology shit happens and

1:11:58even the best of his problems

1:12:01politics is gotten so weird and not to turn us into political show but any

1:12:05without taking any partisan side even yeah but it's gotten so weird over the

1:12:11last decade or two where we're certain extraordinarily shirt short catch

1:12:17phrases will capture the coverage for about 48 hours and then gym and the

1:12:23thing that happened this week with the rollout of the Affordable Care Act

1:12:27website was this word glitch instead of bugs you couldn't go anywhere without

1:12:32seeing you know that there were glitches quote unquote glitches and you know that

1:12:38some people jumped on this is somehow sign

1:12:41it was a disaster and it's never gonna work and other people like no it's just

1:12:46a sign that it's way more popular than it was expected and yes Obama as

1:12:51President Obama said something to the effect of luck even you know you always

1:12:55look that's why Obama should look even iOS 7 from Apple shipped with a glitch

1:13:04they fixed it moved on improved do the same thing

1:13:08fix the glitch which is really reasonable he did ten weirdly

1:13:17politically charged and granted but even if you think it's it's crap public

1:13:23policy even if you think it's a mistake

1:13:26public policy was implemented to jump on the fact that the website can keep up

1:13:31with the traffic on day one is you know that's that's a fixable problem yeah no

1:13:39problem that every website has an ejection it was found interesting is

1:13:47that he compared it to Iowa 7 specifically right and dad dad gets back

1:13:53to me off in the weeds because I'm from Canada and we have health insurance I

1:14:05just couldnt occurred avoid that day and I couldn't finish the shoving the night

1:14:09when he gets assume they can go to a doctor in half and put these medical

1:14:18bills

1:14:24yeah you know when the president of the united states the engine stand up in

1:14:33comparing his roll out of his signature legislation of his career probably of

1:14:40his life

1:14:41yeah I mean yeah and and clearly in the big leagues at that point so yeah

1:14:55targeting the latest seems acceptable thing to do I think that's fair to say

1:15:01no matter which side of the partisan divide Iran where even if you like the

1:15:05car dislike the guy that everybody would agree that you know historically that's

1:15:09his signature legislative accomplishment and if you go if you're right maybe you

1:15:14think on one side you think this is why everybody's eventually everybody's gonna

1:15:17agree the guy was a terrible present and on the other side maybe you think this

1:15:20is why I remembered as a guy you accomplish something that really prove

1:15:24it but it's clearly you know it's the biggest thing he he's going to get past

1:15:28the biggest thing I did and then he compared it to something Apple yeah I

1:15:33think too weird it's real it's almost petty in a way like he should be kind of

1:15:38AboveNet but it I think it speaks to the culture the time I think that are the

1:15:43tech crowd underestimates especially with iOS 7 vastly underestimated just

1:15:50how aware the general public is things like Iowa seven right because there are

1:15:56a lot of people who for the whole summer there was a lot of people that you know

1:16:02in the iOS developer circles really look I think when this thing ships people are

1:16:06gonna you know people are going to go nuts and hate it they're going to see

1:16:09the dialogue that says oh you have an update available and you know the last

1:16:14five years when they've seen that dialogue they hit ok they wait five

1:16:21minutes in their phone or iPad restarts and it looks the same as it did before

1:16:25except you know as bugs fixed and stuff and now this one time they're gonna do

1:16:29it and when they hit restart their phone or iPad is gonna look completely

1:16:34different and they're gonna lose their ship because normal people stuff changes

1:16:38and showed probably shouldn't have been delayed should have been to a couple of

1:16:49friends of mine do not text illiterate it all and they really take not plus

1:16:57there's no look it off but they could navigated the same do you like a big

1:17:06deal we we see differences way more easily than most think a lot of us even

1:17:13me when I see me included underestimated how much work I did to keep it at a

1:17:19certain fundamental level from familiar yeah I agree and I didn't really realize

1:17:26that until I put the phone in the hands of people really don't know anything

1:17:31about tech yeah my mom is a good example of that because my mom is more in charge

1:17:37of the Macan in their house then my dad and but she'll never install on Mac OS

1:17:4210 update without calling there just waiting for me to visit and do it myself

1:17:46you know even though they're relatively automated now whereas she never even

1:17:51asked me she just called me after she upgraded her iPad Iowa seven and one

1:17:56question and and in all day one question about it

1:18:01and she said I keep hitting I keep going to the wrong side of the bar in Safari

1:18:05cuz the Bookmarks menu moved and said it wasn't really a complaint use just like

1:18:11isn't it funny how my fingers is always goes the same size and that was it I

1:18:14mean it was I couldn't believe it she didn't even called ask that when you

1:18:18give her Syracuse's number and talk about spatial Ottawa that would be a

1:18:25good show John Siracusa talks to John Gruber's mother about technology would

1:18:30be attributed to solve her problems with their computer that would be pretty sure

1:18:34you can hook that up

1:18:35holy hell that would be good work out a way to get John Siracusa sauce

1:18:47rate by the end of the ten 10 episode series he'd be he'd be like he'd be in

1:18:53Nigeria I love it would be like a limited run we can make this happen I do

1:19:05think that I think that that's kind of I think a lot of all the predictions of

1:19:08doom and gloom about consumer reaction I was 7 of all been overstated you know

1:19:14and if you wanted to make hay out of certain things like the parallax making

1:19:19you know a few ppl motion sickness but I don't want to make like a serious

1:19:28problem and yeah you know what though the way that it got reported it was

1:19:32funny I was talking to somebody else in my family you know total regular

1:19:36consumer person and they were very confused by it because they saw it on TV

1:19:41and said what it's just making that up this is stupid I don't see anything like

1:19:46that because they got the impression from the TV report that everybody was

1:19:51getting sick from Iowa 77 had these 3d effects and Apple screwed up and they're

1:19:57making everybody ill and this is

1:19:59and she you know she has an iPhone and iPad and is upgrading both like the

1:20:04first two days and likes and enjoys it I gotta get it when you don't get is that

1:20:09it's it's people with a certain disorder I don't know if you want to call this or

1:20:14did they just have a proclivity to get motion sickness from from certain 3d

1:20:19effects and this is triggering it for them and she was i didnt get that cause

1:20:25I feel like the way you know it gets reported as a I was 7 makes you sick

1:20:30right which is an ideal in video games be making people sick for right you know

1:20:39and I sympathize because if your video games make you sexually just know bored

1:20:46playing video games good ranking cyclic I'm not going to play this 3d video game

1:20:49right where any and all of a sudden your phone gets screwed that's that sucks you

1:20:55know it's just turn up in the air and I know that you can only turn off some of

1:21:02the effects right now there's some of the zooming ones you can't help but feel

1:21:06but by that by like I was 7.1 or something like that there will be a

1:21:10setting in accessibility or something like that that turns off some of those

1:21:15unis funny subtle distinction is that whenever you talk to Mike on the app how

1:21:24we zoomed in on iOS we need to happen on a seven is zoomed in from where the icon

1:21:30is on the screen rather than from the center right and for some reason that

1:21:35triggers this motion sickness yeah we're and it's for me it's what I one of the

1:21:43things that makes Iowa seven so much more pleasing to me

1:21:46semantically because it's a diving into things this is booming out to take the

1:21:52screen and when you go back the screen is going into that icon yes you know

1:21:57there's this more of this sense of place and there's even a crossfade anacondas

1:22:01canonized yeah I think it's more than just the fact that it's not always from

1:22:05the center though I do think that it seems more

1:22:07and I think its rooms for longer a longer period of time or at least there

1:22:11are at least it seems like it does yeah the animations definitely feel a little

1:22:16bit slower cuz I have also heard from readers like when it when they first saw

1:22:21it in person you know like in the first day or two after it came out some daring

1:22:25fireball readers who emailed emily is there a way to speed that up because

1:22:28they're like it's not that they're getting sicker anything it's that

1:22:31they're so probably they're all jazzed up on coffee but they're so you know

1:22:37intent on making it go as fast as possible that it drives them not that

1:22:41they're waiting for an animation that they see is superfluous now it's easy

1:22:45just wait for 7.1 and no shave her split second I mean if you look at the

1:22:52animations to hand over the course of history they just keep getting that

1:22:57investor and you know they i I think seven point zero introduces a new visual

1:23:07language do things so too did little bit sluggish it lacked a pinstripe sort of

1:23:16win over the top of the accuracy of the speedy animations was slower because

1:23:20there is an immediate prouder of them did they want to show them off they want

1:23:24they want to experience there when the novelty sort of soft and shave down in a

1:23:31lot faster yeah totally agree we do the last sponsored third third and final

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1:24:43support Mike no company I've ever heard of beautiful designs to choose from you

1:24:49can tweak them when you want to modify the layout of your page 1 ad which

1:24:53features they have to do it you can do it all by dragging and dropping and

1:24:57modify the code you can do that too but if you wanna stick at the higher level

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1:25:58wouldn't be here without script but I think I would ever get things back I

1:26:10expect macro by the end of the month is going to drop that any comments to a BBQ

1:26:16see you you eat because it's there's all sorts of ways you could just talk about

1:26:24that and then lets and on what we're both really good to talk about

1:26:27very knowledgeable about Microsoft yeah I'm a long time Microsoft expert devotee

1:26:34tell me you know cue I never heard I saw this I don't even think of him during

1:26:38fireball because not because it was a big deal but because I I never even

1:26:42heard of them before I knew I had her take you had not checked him out he was

1:26:48one of those things that's a good idea and then I just didn't really follow up

1:26:52on it what it is is effectively a service liquid Google mount is in the AM

1:27:04tempted to come up with it we describe the category but it's an aggregator the

1:27:14way I like an aggregated view life

1:27:16yeah and I've heard it is that it's it's this is my layman's understanding but

1:27:22that whatever it is they bought them for surely it's to help populate that today

1:27:28tab of notifications that it what's going on with you today like now we're

1:27:35yeah that's what people have been saying you think it's important that we don't

1:27:42know but in interface calendar weird little

1:28:13like a lot of this stuff should be like why is today different than might like

1:28:23what's the difference between today in Syria well see really comes up when you

1:28:29ask for the voice interface right sort of related though and I think it looks

1:28:36more related I don't know if it's an overlay over the tickets eerie and call

1:28:41her sarah is your personal assistant to be gender whenever you personally would

1:28:53tell you got to do today and then he can just ask the question why are these the

1:28:59same thing

1:29:01weil ich shouldn't she be Sara Jean be servicing information to you late like

1:29:11Google now does well here's an example of that and and so I do I haven't seen

1:29:17this because I don't go anywhere I wake up and just come downstairs coffee but I

1:29:22just got an email you know there's a featured in in Iowa seven where it was

1:29:27two uses the m7 motion co-processor and figures out where you go on a daily

1:29:33basis and when you do it and somebody reads during fire budgets think wow this

1:29:38just happened to me today for the first time pretty impressive is that

1:29:42Thursday afternoon 44 45 you know today tab it gave them an estimate of the

1:29:52traffic to drive home that it will take longer than usual to drive home because

1:29:57there is traffic on the route

1:29:57there is traffic on the route

1:30:00that he usually drives which I guess I remember being advertised as a future

1:30:04but I never really gave much thought to cause a doesn't really apply to me but

1:30:08wasn't sure how work and he was like I never did anything I i mean i you know

1:30:12obviously he opted into the whatever you know ask permission for his location but

1:30:17other than that he did not into it and now like when he goes to work his today

1:30:20tab gives him like a traffic history so I think that's pretty cool and that is

1:30:27definitely that's the sort of cool thing to let's face it the Google is been a

1:30:31lot better at than anybody else

1:30:33yes Apple and Microsoft anybody Google is is clearly leads the industry in that

1:30:39sort of combination of literacy and yes service is in and your history online

1:30:50services the know what the state of the whole world is right now to certain road

1:30:55is backed up

1:30:56combined with the prediction of you know I think you're gonna do this again

1:31:00because everyone in a funny way of things that make them creepy rather

1:31:04strings right and I me and not even trying to be a jerk about that it cuts

1:31:12both ways right they know exactly where you up to you where you goin in your ETA

1:31:20alone isn't creepy it's you know what can be creepy about them in my opinion

1:31:24is what they do with it

1:31:25how far they'd go with it and what and when is you know when you get a 30

1:31:30minute drive home this vote blocks here why did you stop and have your favorite

1:31:34burger right he was he's a $5 discount right back into little bit weird

1:31:42but so you know i dont to me what this says that they bought cute isn't so much

1:31:49that they wanted to Google Maps Google now kind of thing what he says to me is

1:31:54that they haven't got one going yet or at least they need to get right they

1:32:02were well down there devoted to getting this done they would necessarily need to

1:32:06book you possibly you know let's face it syria was the exact same type of

1:32:12acquisition I mean syria denies any change names they actually mean which is

1:32:15one of the most unusual marketing decision I mean I'm even saying that

1:32:19Steve 10 really yet I wish I could find a source for that it could have been the

1:32:26book I don't remember that from the book but couldn't come up with anything

1:32:30better

1:32:31Siri is going to be something coldly personal assistant state and the

1:32:39building but you know syria was just start of the day

1:32:43Siri used to be an app in the App Store yet

1:32:50so you know you know it's finally settling what we're talking about

1:32:55Microsoft and how well you know I feel like it its it was perfect for him and

1:33:07you know divided everybody away putting it perfect for him it was a perfect

1:33:12Steve Ballmer goodbye and for those who didn't watch it if you skip the video

1:33:17you should go look it up cuz it's worth watching is only four minutes long but a

1:33:22it just shows all sorts of things that I think are unique to Microsoft like the

1:33:25fact that they have a company meeting every year in a fourteen thousand seat

1:33:30basketball arena you know is crazy I mean you know Apple's got lots of

1:33:35employees like that but they never rent out you know the place where the San

1:33:39Jose Sharks play and have them all meet there once for like a effectively a pep

1:33:42rally and I'm gonna lie I put it down because you know i i wouldn't let me

1:33:47know some people go for that Microsoft always gone for things like that

1:33:52yes I mean believe me that is not my stuff there is you know what I would be

1:33:56doing group always accused Apple of being more like a religion like forever

1:34:03but in my experience people who work at Apple are the opposite of that people

1:34:06who work at Apple that they made love Apple in the middle of the products but

1:34:09they're not they don't have a further about it I you know this story hiring

1:34:15the ready to cut off

1:34:17member you thought you ever thought my story I remember was from way back and

1:34:24this was back when Microsoft the space today they screwed IBM over on the next

1:34:32generation operating system where what was it was it was nice to think so

1:34:39alright so you know more night long story short tho OS two it was supposed

1:34:47to be like a joint product of Microsoft and IBM mostly IBM and Microsoft would

1:34:52back it

1:34:53and they'd write apps for it and they'd port office in excel in everything to it

1:34:56and then you know that could work

1:34:59dad a joint team with Canon EOS what the the file system for ways to end up being

1:35:04converted into NTFS but secretly behind the scenes they kept working on Windows

1:35:11day had their own kernel that they dropped in underneath you is to cuddle

1:35:16and anyways we secretly behind the scenes they made and tea while IBM was

1:35:22working on ways to and Microsoft is working on ways to write and they had no

1:35:26real intention of ever putting Word Excel those two and and just kind of

1:35:32sand but I remember reading a story it's politically murky but yet I remember

1:35:38reading and I miss remembering details I guess before it showed us but it was

1:35:43something they had like a big one of these big company meetings with ten

1:35:47twenty thousand Microsoft employees of ones and they like drove out like like a

1:35:52jalopy that said OS two and and everybody boo'd and then they drove out

1:35:57like a cool looking car that said windows and everybody chief

1:36:01this is absurd a falling out after the fire became public it was just you know

1:36:06yes it just seemed vaguely dangerous always seem to rub me the wrong way that

1:36:12it was dangerously close to like a book burning

1:36:15yeah yeah that's horrible to work it just this is totally in his ideas to

1:36:28work and used bookstore in every now and then we'd by a lake

1:36:31you know we will buy books and people who selling them to be so and you know

1:36:35eventually would have like five copies of some romance novel and like three of

1:36:41them have to go in the trash and I could never actually threw them out in the

1:36:45trash I would just take the big box it was tasked with drawing out and I would

1:36:50sit down next to be safe I couldn't bring myself to actually just destroy

1:36:54the box it is always remember working on it but I worked at like a drugstore

1:37:00chain had you know that sold like mass-market books and used after tearing

1:37:06the cover off for the day and they even used to sprint and it probably still do

1:37:10they say if you bought this book without a cover you've bought any legal book you

1:37:16you would tear the cover off and send those covers back to the publisher's

1:37:20proof that you didn't sell those box but in the meantime yet expected the lake

1:37:25shred the box in and out and about you but I was a fuck that in my arms and

1:37:33there's just too much history behind book burning

1:37:35even like you said even if it's just like a totally apolitical just a pope

1:37:41romance or detective thriller just like to just under something I have been me I

1:37:48am NOT putting books in the garbage I am NOT which is weird be anyway back to

1:37:55appoint yes kind of weird company culture

1:37:58what I found striking about this bunker farewell is that he was at his best when

1:38:07he's a sort of creepy and screaming and fist pumping the air sweaty sweaty let's

1:38:15face it there's sort of a even if you love even if you love the guy got it met

1:38:20the guy has a history of sweating yes that's his style what it what I found

1:38:24interesting but this sort of took a bit of the staying away from that developers

1:38:28developers developers in the when I watched that I just thought he was on

1:38:33the hook shield literally take his mind and just whatever maybe doesn't like

1:38:40public speaking to the couple managed to get out there and Jews and this is again

1:38:46this is just interpretation of excitement it had nothing to do with

1:38:50anything else but this was a nice just to legendary very emotional can again

1:38:55and you know what did you know the person that just came down we love you

1:38:59that's weird yeah I would not be screaming at my CEO but it's felt it fit

1:39:07right in

1:39:09did and and I saw that little farewell thing to me was ok this is weird this is

1:39:15not my culture but difficult to culture there this is there a thing and it's

1:39:20interesting I get the verge I think maybe I don't even know how they got the

1:39:26quote unquote exclusive video to a day after mounting

1:39:31but they had the video and their their description of any knows maybe ads

1:39:35partly because they pulled some strings and got it from Microsoft and so they

1:39:38had to frame it positively but they really made it seem like it was like

1:39:42like everybody's gotta love this video where is a couple of readers after

1:39:47failing to it wrote to me in their life

1:39:49you know I don't really even gonna take that video made me uncomfortable if I

1:39:54was there I would have been all I was told I would have been really

1:39:56uncomfortable I can't believe that nobody is mentioning just how kind of

1:40:02uncomfortable missus and I was right there with ya I don't think that they

1:40:07were I don't have a good thing I don't think he was passing off this is just

1:40:14amazing and great and isn't it I think it was more like you gotta love these

1:40:20guys

1:40:20well with this distinction of being I was uncomfortable but the same time

1:40:26everybody in this room seems kind of into this well and it was not sure but I

1:40:32mean that's a lot of people litter kind of into this was definitely his style

1:40:36yeah yeah and went out like he you know when I like you lived I he definitely

1:40:45got her trusted

1:40:48yeah I think so too and I think who knows if anything will come of it but it

1:40:54wasn't reported in a crackpot publication and they was Bloomberg said

1:40:58that there's a group that controls like five percent three to five percent of

1:41:02microsoft shares you want bill gates to step down as chairman exactly so it was

1:41:08believed to be at the top 20 investors which is such a weird thing to say

1:41:13because that's a previous range right you know what is it like number five

1:41:19number eighteen well the big question is are they just the three who are willing

1:41:25to put their names out in public right now and do it do they speak for a larger

1:41:30number of the

1:41:32institutional investors you know normal people like us if we do you when I go

1:41:36out tomorrow and and login or trade accounts and you know to spend a couple

1:41:40hundred thousand dollars we don't give it matters of the big investors the

1:41:46institutional and pension funds hedge funds and somebody who controls even if

1:41:53it's just 1 percent of your control 1 percentage talking serious money

1:41:57billion dollars then you have a say in the matter you know and how many how

1:42:03many is is this just a small group and that's it and it's just gonna float away

1:42:07or is there a serious contingent of institutional Microsoft investors who

1:42:11want you know effectively not just bomber gone but they want the board gone

1:42:16including gates ok so let's just back up a bit and just is running on but let's

1:42:24play this back sort of chronologically when you get stepped down like 15 years

1:42:31ago

1:42:32type thing it was sort of gradual yeah but whatever they give us a while years

1:42:38ago might have been too long I think it was more about about 10 years ago okay

1:42:41but I don't know following that stock price effectively stagnates Microsoft

1:42:48fails to get into mobile does get into consoles but doesn't really make a

1:42:56shitload of money off that window starts to stagnate as tablets can wave to a

1:43:06time when it was over loaded up January 2000 so we're about halfway right about

1:43:10thirteen years not a little bit closer and closer

1:43:16is about to come on his show just gonna be late I'm not going to rub it in his

1:43:25face closer than two months away from being fourteen years

1:43:28halfway between now and you know and and well what happened pretty quickly run

1:43:36here's a quick example and who knows what would have been different if he'd

1:43:39stayed in Benin if you want to do state but a perfect example is XP XP is

1:43:44probably

1:43:46I think everybody my degree was the most successful version of Windows over that

1:43:50at a time it came out it was popular and it remained popular but they got stuck

1:43:56right and you know and it was a long time before the next one came out which

1:44:01was Vista and Windows Vista did come out people didn't like it so it was a

1:44:06disaster and in fact bomber mentioned in the early 2002 failure

1:44:18effectively they vote to business people Longhorn which had this crazy fascist in

1:44:23a whole bunch of other stuff and then this and they've had to back off a bunch

1:44:28of that and then ship which is Canada's half assed we gotta ship something holy

1:44:34shit it's been five yes six years a gay you know we now have 12 to 18 months to

1:44:39get something out the door or we just look like a total idiot right it was

1:44:43more like ok none of this weird now we haven't had any of this stuff from

1:44:47Longhorn here's some invisible windows are ya

1:44:53overdone blur effect that's probably similar effects in Iowa seven right now

1:44:58probably I'm sure there's somebody up in Redmond who you know when the day that I

1:45:03was seven was unveiled in everybody was

1:45:05wow look at that cool blurred the guy who liked wrote the blur for me is what

1:45:11do you think it was like a fist pumper facepalm I think it was like four out of

1:45:14scotch this is why daddy drinks right there was like the exact same people who

1:45:23like in 2007 when mr shipp they're like what the fuck are you wasting my time

1:45:32and now they're like wow the background for battered stock stagnates the end up

1:45:45losing well-known executives left right and center for the past couple years J

1:45:50Allard Sinofsky what's-his-name Ray Ozzie

1:45:56yeah they bought into sort of rejuvenate the technologist side of the company and

1:46:03then I have to equate to use 25 years after he got it wasn't long enough ten

1:46:09you to make its mark you know just recently announced to total viewers to

1:46:18fit the Apple model which is weird only Apple does seemingly effortless for

1:46:29companies of that size where you know there's only one marketing division you

1:46:33know Phil Schiller it is in charge of marketing for Apple not there is no

1:46:36separate Mac marketing manager there's no separate iPhone marketing manager

1:46:41you know there's one and now there's 100 RBIs marketing group does not fly with a

1:46:47man who gets the ad it's a just right not even have to be well there may be a

1:46:55debate but it's a debate within one team yes it's not up to

1:47:00butting heads and writing

1:47:10well and maybe because they know they were always like always I mean you know

1:47:21and and at least always dating back to 1997 to say that you know that Apple

1:47:27effectively truly got you know if they ever had if you give if you give and the

1:47:37problem with Apple Institute in terms of organisation lies before Steve Jobs came

1:47:42back in 97 wasn't really that they were set up in divisions it's just that they

1:47:46would they were just a mess I mean I wasn't really like Microsoft they had

1:47:49separate that the Newton group was separate from app from the Mac group

1:47:53even though they were in it was part of the problem but it was really just more

1:47:56that they were a mess and didn't have you know they were just disorganized

1:48:00disorganized rather than how they were realized yes yes yes that's so whatever

1:48:08in a couple months later mom gets the boot it looks bad

1:48:21makes you wonder just how nervous and desperate they're behind the scenes

1:48:24because you wouldn't do that right if you gonna give given the boot before he

1:48:31doesn't you were gonna let the new guy do it right and how did he how did they

1:48:34let him go you know clearly I the reorg you know I don't know how much how much

1:48:41is that it's just paperwork yet how much the six months you will change your

1:48:46organization to be black and then it's actually changed and you just can't get

1:48:51it said it you can just cancel all the paperwork without actually reassigning

1:48:54people so bomber had been CEO for thirteen years and he had been at the

1:48:59company

1:49:01right-hand man to gates all along so we've been there since the company was

1:49:07you know 1313 fourteen people probably double digits I don't think that you

1:49:20know one thing I don't think Steve Ballmer was lacking in or even still is

1:49:24probably is confidence you know how much does a CEO who's been there for all

1:49:29along he's been CEO for 13 yrs clearly a pretty confident guy how much does he

1:49:34have to run by the Board before he gets through what I would guess something

1:49:38like the reorg is something he has to go to the board and say here's what I want

1:49:42to do I don't think that he can announced a company-wide reorganization

1:49:46without going to the board first but there is some kind of weird dynamic

1:49:50there where he went to the board presumably got the OK for it but at the

1:49:54same time the board must have already been thinking we want to ask this guy to

1:49:58step down it seems weird that they didn't you know say let's slow down on

1:50:03the reorg for a second we want to talk to you about something I don't

1:50:09understand there is a cancer is an area with this is good for my good side maybe

1:50:17maybe just did it without talking to the board I don't know but I like that that

1:50:22kinda makes business sense we publicly wanna shame I hate to make sports

1:50:33analogies were loved him but it's to me it's like a team of trouble and coach

1:50:40announces here's our new playbook for next year's third quarter of the

1:50:44fourteenth season and weaved we're gonna get these

1:50:48gonna sit the whole team up to fit this playbook thats new it's a totally

1:50:52different style of play them what you're talking about a totally different style

1:50:57play we're gonna switch to it

1:50:59gonna set the whole thing up for going to get all the players we gonna get

1:51:02players who fit this new style of play

1:51:04and oh by the way I'm not gonna be here next to the new coach and I you come in

1:51:09but we've already shuffled the team and reorganize the team yet at to me just a

1:51:15very bad about you don't get to set the play

1:51:22desperately try to follow you now you don't get to set up the play and then

1:51:26just walk away from the field in let's let somebody else a deal with the

1:51:30consequences but it seems it's backwards are you really want to pick the leader

1:51:34first and let the leaders at the organizational structure exactly like

1:51:38you structure gonna wait my hands of this and mr Conway good luck with it

1:51:42that's just crazy and even bomber in his belief is trying to remember the email

1:51:51wasn't lying and revelation and she might be needed three pair guess frankly

1:52:00I thought I thought he was unusually honest about the fact that he you know

1:52:07he didn't think you know now would not have been the time he would have picked

1:52:12that's the bit I was going to comment on heeey comes out and says that he wanted

1:52:17to do it

1:52:18leader at least halfway through the transition which even thats weird but

1:52:23the beginning she's weird anyway and now we're hearing the Bill Gates is facing

1:52:31pressure to step is not accompanied it's chaos like this I can't as much as his

1:52:45spent talking about Apple I think microsoft is the most interesting story

1:52:51and textures yeah because there's more drama I mean I think there is any

1:52:56salacious right I mean that in this is a technological powerhouse with a lot of

1:53:01talent that is clearly in turmoil I don't know

1:53:05the other big towel and this is the sort of thing where it because I don't follow

1:53:09Microsoft is closely I never even heard of the guy before back in April of this

1:53:13year Microsoft CFO Peter Klein announced his resignation as he wanted it had

1:53:19literally is the explanation he wanted to spend more time with his family which

1:53:23is you know sort of PR speak for I'm not gonna take it could be anything but MGC

1:53:29was the first one I remember where I was when the bomber resignation was

1:53:33announced he was like you know who's the first one to know you know a typical but

1:53:40it with it like a TV or movie reference but to know when winter is coming to you

1:53:44know sort of Game of Thrones MGS it heat up his sleeve

1:53:49you know what he means yeah I know people give him a hard time about his

1:53:55movie and TV references but he uses a min away where it saves a lot of words

1:53:59and you know what I like and I like you I just think he's like who knows of each

1:54:06the Great Lakes the CFO is the one who knows when bad news coming six months

1:54:10nine months from now which way the wind is blowing and publicly they only talk

1:54:15about what they just didn't in the last quarter and they give guidance for the

1:54:20next quarter I mean I think that's right yeah of course but behind the scenes he

1:54:28might have a better idea of what's going on

1:54:31yeah and you know and and they can say all they want that there you know not

1:54:39worried about the post-pc effect on PC sales but I mean it's been a long time

1:54:44since PC sales have grown quarter quarter they're drinking and that

1:54:48it's the sort of 50 to use this analogy it's the hemingway description of what

1:54:54is how do you go bankrupt and that you go bankrupt two ways

1:54:58slowly then quickly you know that the the pop in and windows licensing sales

1:55:05could happen very quickly and it's seems like before it would get dramatically

1:55:11bad what you would see is exactly what you've seen over the last year or two

1:55:15where it gets lonely bad city thing that's what's happening Microsoft is it

1:55:19it's their executive level and their most informed investors see the writing

1:55:28on the wall that's exactly what I think is happening I think the most informed

1:55:31investors I think that the reason the reorg was made in a way that I think it

1:55:36was contrary to Microsoft us you know the way they've been for 20 years and

1:55:42following who else Apple is about that writing on the wall like we don't know

1:55:46what else to try but to try this because it seems to be working for somebody and

1:55:50I think with the investors what they see is the only good thing about this

1:55:54company over the last 10 years has been the revenue they've had from the

1:55:59institutions of Windows PCs and office sales on top of those PCs and Enterprise

1:56:09Service money they also add whatever else you want to file into that but all

1:56:12of that is going

1:56:15based on people sitting at desks using Windows right i mean the client-side

1:56:22getting voted by Max Gradel whatever you've written books whatever you want

1:56:27to say and the services said getting invited by Google I totally understand

1:56:31that it is Microsoft's revenue and profit centers are way more complicated

1:56:35than it used to be where you really could you say it all just Windows and

1:56:39Office and its

1:56:40I totally understand that it's more complicated than that but I still think

1:56:44that all the stuff that makes it more complicated than that is still sitting

1:56:47on top of Windows PCs and I think that there's a lot of people who say that the

1:56:51bottoms is gonna drop out

1:56:53and I think that it's not a date necessarily think haiti existing team

1:57:00can't possibly be the ones who write this I think it's more or less but we've

1:57:05given them enough time and they've they've dropped the ball enough times

1:57:08that we're going to make a change so she gets go I don't know I don't know it's

1:57:14hard for me to say cuz I don't really know I really have no idea how involved

1:57:16he is well I do know that he's been a big supporter of bomber right but he's

1:57:21always at his bank so maybe it's one of those bombers clear lead let us into

1:57:27these words and it happened on you while we're yeah it's like now we're looking

1:57:32for a new CEO we don't want gays to be the one to pick the next year

1:57:36same thing where he's the one who left bomber stay as long as example but I

1:57:43frankly I can't imagine Microsoft without either bummer gauge it seemed to

1:57:48lose my mind and they're talking about getting it from 42 min Microsoft

1:57:54anything like a pet CCH alright silencer water right it just does not seem to me

1:58:03that they need somebody from outside tech you know I know what they need

1:58:11what do you think you need

1:58:13you know I'm tempted sailing jail orderly ask you something comes back but

1:58:18I mean that's because those names and I know you know what I like is the guy

1:58:22that does all presentations for the for the surface 21 guided on stage he does a

1:58:31great job

1:58:31yeah but I'm sure there's mostly just thinking to stage manage anything today

1:58:40so yeah what do you think they need I wonder I wonder if there's anything that

1:58:51they can do to stay relevant as the type of company that we talked about on shows

1:58:55like this right about blogs like you know to me the easiest out is an end to

1:59:02make investors happy and keep the stock footage to go the IBM room where you

1:59:08just sort of become consulting company and there's all sorts of money to be

1:59:13made the enterprise any still have you know all sorts of people in the

1:59:16enterprise you know and trust Microsoft products but to sort of fade fade from

1:59:21view as a consumer tech company right when his idea when's the last time IBM

1:59:25has done anything that you are I have taken note of my eye I can't remember

1:59:29IBM remains one of the most successful profitable and success you know their

1:59:34stock is successful that profits are high the revenues high earners contains

1:59:39the last time I paid attention to IBM where is always to walk for twenty years

1:59:51ago

1:59:52yeah I would say it was probably for me last time I remember paying attention to

1:59:55him was when they still own the ThinkPad brand and yeah but it's been

2:00:03I just you know and I wasn't like I was buying ThinkPad but I always thought and

2:00:10still good quality hardware right I still think in general I've seen them in

2:00:16Cape Town wherever they say Obama makes good laptops that have had to use a

2:00:21laptop other than a MacBook it probably had to just pick a brand but but IBM's

2:00:28been out of the game for a while but I did that sort of route of you know sort

2:00:32of getting away from consumer technology and off this train of chasing this one

2:00:37solution I can think and I can't help but think too that if they were to hire

2:00:42the Ford guide that that's what they're talking about he would need a Microsoft

2:00:46Word lou gerstner was to IBM yeah it was in his interest in Iraq I mean that

2:00:56companies tanking and he fired for the first time in their history he laid off

2:01:01a bunch of people I'm not change the wrong the wrong way to go but for the

2:01:07enthusiasts the people who read the Virgin really like Microsoft products

2:01:12that people who read Paul throws people like you and I will not fun last time

2:01:19we'd do you know the name of an IBM executive

2:01:23right and you know but I could see them you know I know that Blackberry goes to

2:01:29the way to his chains on airliners at least you know you going down fighting

2:01:35at that point on the other hand though at least at this point with the current

2:01:40board and leadership it certainly doesn't seem like Microsoft's current

2:01:45leadership even with bomber on the way out is thinking the net weight like

2:01:48doesn't cause if they were there is no way they would be you know trying to

2:01:52acquire Nokia's handset business

2:01:54it's you know Microsoft as it stands today

2:01:57wants to fight they want to they want to get ahead of Android and market share

2:02:03and they want to compete get ahead of Apple terms of you know popularity

2:02:09branding and the creepiest things about that bedbugs right but one of the

2:02:15creepiest things about that bomb video ways the signage in the background like

2:02:22above this sort of the first row of seats did you notice it no I don't think

2:02:26so

2:02:27so tall blue and it's it's like a banner ad and it's it's Microsoft call and

2:02:32can't hold us which is weirdly defensive I don't like it we're getting picked on

2:02:47boot we're not going to we have got to stop going to keep fighting to keep

2:02:52fighting sort of message can't hold us in places somebody's trying to hold you

2:02:58down and they're not going to succeed in its that's a weird mentally to be

2:03:03sticking on a banner

2:03:06upstart you copies that's it's

2:03:13funny it's it's a rival leading can't hold us I don't know somebody's getting

2:03:20held down in like having a fit right failure doesn't sit right with anybody

2:03:24maybe failure is well in some regards some of the products have done recently

2:03:31which i think that they were totally serious and put a lot of wood behind the

2:03:36arrows you know like surface I i know i think it is fair to describe surfaces of

2:03:40failure windows I was on the show with you right after the announcer surface

2:03:47things and we both like the surface RT better than the service so totally can

2:03:52you give me too and attacked but in her defense I think we both want to call it

2:03:58the Metro tablet isn't there something else and get reminders to us I still

2:04:03think I think the biggest problem with the whole surface two things that

2:04:05they've stuck with the door you know we don't understand that i dont i dont get

2:04:10it I think I would have rather have killed bedrm version version or just

2:04:16kill I I would have preferred that they stick with the arm and RT version as a

2:04:21product I like that better right

2:04:23outcome given the previous generation pick one of the other great I would be

2:04:28saying the last time even if they just took two of them through my up in the

2:04:33air and whichever one the glass didn't break we'll have one more pic I mean

2:04:37flip a coin but just put put all of your wood behind one of those hours and i

2:04:42cant believe too that that I can see how they launched a year ago with both

2:04:47because I wanted to keep them secret so they didn't talk to people about it but

2:04:50then after they came out and how much palpable confusion there was over what

2:04:54the hell the difference between them and even vaguely interested in one which one

2:04:58should you buy

2:04:59that they didn't realize army and we really screwed this up because people

2:05:03have no idea what the differences between these two things even know the

2:05:06difference is actually pretty significant I can't believe they do that

2:05:09themselves cassini more than Windows right and they named both these things

2:05:14surface even though they're very different they gave him like almost

2:05:17identical names and they run literally run different operating systems that

2:05:21look the same I could almost forgive that of him six service metro and

2:05:27service windows I don't mean they even that's a bit confusing but at least

2:05:33you're describing the device in the USA is running you know maybe maybe Windows

2:05:38Phone maybe failures a bad word for that it's it's having trouble getting

2:05:42traction but it's not zero it seems like it's at least growing a little bit

2:05:48BlackBerry is right

2:05:51definitely has heat and I did and I really thought this software was total

2:05:58mass I thought the hardware was pretty interesting they did a pretty good job

2:06:01at the software was so bad I really can't do the the axe the axe stink the

2:06:09software stack is pretty decent it but if you and then you swipe up to sort of

2:06:19get into the task switcher so it moves into basically like a card like sort of

2:06:24a web of lies covered the camera as you panning around the camera still active

2:06:29down to occurred to me it's it's live updating while you switching we talked

2:06:37about you know what you think

2:06:41from you know it's very serious computer science underneath and yeah I've got a

2:06:49good stack and

2:06:50awful implementation of any kind of ass and in the you know there's some

2:06:54conceptual stuff that you know like going left to get the all messages view

2:06:58it's just shows like a universal inbox of everything but it's not really a nap

2:07:03it's just you've gone left and now here is all your messages to seems like some

2:07:07kind it's one of those things where they're headed to this idea that

2:07:09Blackberry devices all about being communicator first messaging app first

2:07:16so how do you do that well from anywhere you just go after you've got this weird

2:07:21mix in box we can do some stuff you can't assume other stuff and that they

2:07:29would have come out with it two years ago

2:07:30those three years but for this year's to have the pieces he just can't he

2:07:39couldn't do that had to stick to get into a minute they're gone now what's

2:07:43your advice for Microsoft I think Microsoft in credit I think microsoft is

2:07:52his success story I think they've won if you look at the original mission

2:07:58statement it was a PC on every desk did succeed he stayed widely succeeded and

2:08:09then they didn't know what to do next I think they need to figure out what to do

2:08:13next I think they missed you know they told me sort of flood the PC market so

2:08:23that miss their I think they need somebody with a good vision to try to

2:08:27figure out what the next over the top goal is that they can try to aim for you

2:08:32think you have the talent you know to to build the weird given that video the

2:08:38crazy cultish passion to get there I just think they need to know what that

2:08:45is I don't know I don't that is I think if they if they wanted my ten seconds of

2:08:49consulting advice i would tell them

2:08:52I think that they need to be focused on who they're the competitor that really

2:08:57hurt them is into me it's Google not Apple not that Apple's success hasn't

2:09:01been somewhat at their expense but that it's worth organized and they're never

2:09:05gonna be out in the things that Apple's best never gonna be good to see Google

2:09:09because they undercut they basically quantized operating systems they

2:09:12commoditized operating systems and their commoditized during office type

2:09:17applications with docs and stuff like that and that the you know that they've

2:09:22got institutions like schools that are buying based on something other than

2:09:27design and quality of just how nice the stuff is they've got them using you know

2:09:32get all the kids on Google Docs yeah but I disagree with you on that because what

2:09:37can they do ok so you focus on Google what he can do given in with your tree

2:09:41that's doesn't suit a business model you know like I don't think they need to be

2:09:48figuring out Google has gotten their business they need a new business you

2:09:54know what I think I think the biggest mistake Microsoft made in the last 10

2:09:58years honestly and I've I think I've mentioned this before but I think the

2:10:03biggest mistake they made was that somewhere around 2008 or so they should

2:10:09have focused on shipping versions of Internet Explorer for Windows that

2:10:17blocked all advertising any and all advertising by the fall just to cut

2:10:23their off it from Google is that was the way michael c 2008 slate but you have to

2:10:29give that and you know and I may well have found themselves back in court yet

2:10:34and you know what and in the old days when that happened then they'd financial

2:10:38aid fight it and by the time even if they lost by the time they were no

2:10:43matter what no matter because Google would have been dried up time they

2:10:47needed to cut off advertising to Google was the thing that I think God's

2:10:51Microsoft the most is a Google 2006 I think that almost all of this money that

2:11:00made Google what Google is today came from people using Windows PCs and a day

2:11:05you know and I think a lot of them are using most of them were using IE and

2:11:09they could have just said it couldn't they wouldn't have to come and say we're

2:11:12going to block Google as issues said you know as a great new feature in that

2:11:16locker right its ad blocker built into its on by default it saves you know 20%

2:11:21battery life every time I don't know maybe at this point in time it is too

2:11:26late I don't know how you compete it is it's just for the record I don't mine

2:11:30had bloggers I don't believe I don't have to think that would have really

2:11:36cripple said Google yeah but that was the old Microsoft could you know they've

2:11:39cut off the air supply what was the heir to google it was ads being shown to

2:11:46users yeah I think that would have been about this I think it probably would

2:11:52have been the right move in there here's what happens when they let somebody

2:11:57growing it is you know and I do think I think a lot of people get confused

2:12:03everybody wants to pit Android against iOS and its market share

2:12:07hundred really is hurt is hurt the whole idea of a licensed operating system they

2:12:13use cell from money because now there is what's the price to get totally

2:12:18professional robust modern operating system for a computing device not sure

2:12:23that's entirely fair microsoft said at first because i get charged for Windows

2:12:30but they had these crazy deals where even if you didn't ship Windows on your

2:12:37PC you would pay for Windows anyway you don't you gonna get to guess it get to

2:12:43jail G on the show I should you and you alone getting outbid save me in montana

2:12:51show

2:12:52wants to show he's the regular host I always forget you just getting other

2:13:08weeks let's wrap it up when you wear let me think Microsoft at one point

2:13:23commanded such power in the PC industry that it could force PC manufacturers to

2:13:30give it money even if they didn't ship windows right that was right and that

2:13:35was the terms it effectively crippled BOS right and and that's why I'm saying

2:13:40you should see right let's make up the numbers but it was something like if you

2:13:46agreed to the good contract with Microsoft letting you run Dell Compaq

2:13:52the good contract says every PC you sell dollars in that it doesn't say every PC

2:13:59with Windows every PC

2:14:01you give Microsoft 50 bucks or if you just want a paper copy of Windows well

2:14:07that'll cost you $150 per PC and so crippling and then if you agreed to the

2:14:14one that only $50 but it's for every PC and me on my PC company we take the

2:14:19other one cuz we only want to pay for actual windows are using we might want

2:14:23to ship some of our PCs with Linux or with B or whatever other OS or maybe you

2:14:29know call Apple and see if we get a patent license as a copy for Intel $300

2:14:36behind on every single Windows PC we sell which is right now our bread and

2:14:40butter on a quarterly basis and $100 per PC

2:14:45you couldn't you couldn't afford that kind of thing so everybody agreed to the

2:14:48other one will definitely crippled BOS

2:14:52and while I don't believe I was using it at the time but Linux and FreeBSD and

2:15:00all that on the desktop would not there yet you're using be I know I used a few

2:15:05BSD the time they weren't there yet major desktop operating systems and as

2:15:15much it is funny to laugh at like has two years to Linux on the desktop no

2:15:20they weren't there yet but in a lot of ways environment just was not could not

2:15:29support that kind of film and because it is kind of weird sweeter deals in my

2:15:33head with the manufacturer's yeah he was the example that sort approved it and

2:15:36NBC actually be never quite got there in terms of having the whole software stack

2:15:40there but they had enough they had enough I mean it was a real compelling

2:15:45they could have had a good way better than windows super 90 definitely in a

2:15:51way more modern than Mac OS Mac OS and you know it certainly would have been

2:16:00compelling enough with Microsoft in have those deals some number of Dell and

2:16:04Compaq PCs would have been sold

2:16:07who knows what percentage in 0345 but that's how something starts short as

2:16:13Microsoft you I think they need a vision I think we need to figure out what the

2:16:16hell is going to do honestly I think that their efforts in consumer

2:16:25electronics mostly by the Xbox combined with this weird thing that they're

2:16:32really good at doing that instead of the people don't appreciate ya

2:16:36disclosure you've been responsible is this your guys but they do a good job as

2:16:44isn't here as I say I said is your people wrote in and said i mispronounced

2:16:48it never mispronounce it in French media it's fine

2:16:53Xbox life is good day have a good one of the first six bucks ship $10.99 yeah so

2:17:11they've got a long history of integrating consumer hardware with

2:17:15back-end services and that's where the world is these days I think I think of

2:17:23infection with Windows is sort of led by bomber but it's kind of lead them down

2:17:31the you know it's almost been putting him out to pasture they need to focus on

2:17:36things that have two attributes that a that they can be the best in the world

2:17:40yes be that have a bigger future ahead of them than their present and that's

2:17:47the problem with Windows Windows future is smaller than the present yeah windows

2:17:54is not helping but anything that doesn't qualify for both of those things they

2:17:58should scratch off the list yes so maybe you know again it could be like an enemy

2:18:03of my enemy is my friend where if they're focused on Google as their

2:18:08primary enemy you know in terms of you know integrated services and stuff like

2:18:14that and companies that just run the back end stuff on Google

2:18:18working with apple or at least 90 min maybe even working with Apple but

2:18:21working with just assume that there's going to be institutions that have an

2:18:25awful lot of iPhone users but making backend services that work great for

2:18:29iPhone users there's money that I still don't think that there what will happen

2:18:35in any way I don't think so either but I feel like buying Nokia confuses that I

2:18:44don't know no more than like Apple's iPhones or office and Microsoft's Nokia

2:18:51phones I would say this I think that they should set themselves up and I

2:18:55think very near future they should set themselves up for how can a profit in a

2:19:00world where awful lot of people at the high end of the market whether their

2:19:05consumers or whether their enterprise users who are using iPhones and iPads

2:19:10are so also using Microsoft products right don't set them up the thing that I

2:19:16think that bomber might have blended into his world where they somehow want

2:19:19to stop the iPhone and iPad and defeat them you know they almost need like that

2:19:26Steve Jobs moment where you know 90710 Gate on-screen macro and said look we

2:19:31have to get past the idea that Microsoft has to lose for Apple to win but I think

2:19:35Microsoft needs the exact opposite to get past the idea that Apple needs to

2:19:39lose from Microsoft exactly well I don't I don't know you you seem fixated on

2:19:45this idea that Microsoft Certified apple and I'm not sure that that's why are

2:19:49they making things like the surface and I don't think is to fight Microsoft and

2:19:57i think is to fight apple pie I think it's and then you used showed it

2:20:03yourself where Apple makes more money like more revenue despite signing

2:20:10hardware then Microsoft and Google dude spelling like signs software

2:20:15I think Blair higher marks which is the remarkable thing which is weird and

2:20:20crazy and I think I don't think Microsoft necessarily want to fuel the

2:20:25phone that will destroy the iPhone I think they want a portion of the market

2:20:29well I don't think I don't know that they can get that kind of need to plan

2:20:33for failing in that regard

2:20:35yeah I I honestly think that they should be teaming up with Apple's much possible

2:20:39to be beat the prize fighting back into Yahoo should be doing the same as I

2:20:46think there's a lot of that where you know and I really do mean it and I know

2:20:49you know trying to say that Apple is you know touchy-feely hippie company that

2:20:56just wants to get along with everybody else but I still think that I still

2:20:59think back to the original iPhone introduction when Steve Jobs had Eric

2:21:02Schmidt from Google come up on stage that Apple didn't want to do all the

2:21:07online stuff well you know how to make the culo ass and will will you know will

2:21:12work with you i think there's a lot of opportunities there for Microsoft may be

2:21:17boring that's but I've got a good way to wrap this up to talking to you at

2:21:27AllThingsD

2:21:29when Bill Gates and Steve Jobs on stage with Kerry and his team wanted that's

2:21:40that's great

2:21:45sometime in the future each was asked what they ended about the other company

2:21:51bill Gates said he envied jobs as sensitive taste

2:21:58and Steve said he envied Microsoft's ability to partner with other people and

2:22:06that if he had had that ability

2:22:08early on in his life things would have been different and he thinks he would

2:22:13have forced a stronger company

2:22:17i think thats asked I think that's very astute analysis of the company's I think

2:22:26microsoft is great at making partners I think historically they've kind of ship

2:22:30them every now and then when they needed to which is not good but I think Apple

2:22:36is little bit timid about it but I do think of both of these companies and and

2:22:41Yahoo in a couple of other companies are going to continue to succeed in 20

2:22:44they're going to need to swallow their pride and partnerships I curse because

2:22:51that is the show I'll also say this I will say this out loud on that I also

2:22:57think that Google today is more like the Microsoft of old in terms of seemingly

2:23:02having a mindset of we can do it all ourselves just walking down my awesome

2:23:09ending no no I'm kidding yeah no i agree

2:23:15less less interested in partnerships with any other company than anybody else

2:23:19and tech today even Apple which is weird right i mean apples to LinkedIn LinkedIn

2:23:30logo and my Mac OS 10 happy with it exactly right but they have facebook

2:23:38building and Linkedin and I know that I've when I bring this up under

2:23:43incredible people say we don't need those things built into Android because

2:23:46it has this sharing features between apps that when you install the Facebook

2:23:50app has not entered its not untrue that they have great to have that but it

2:23:55doesn't see the point that when you just right out of the factory your eyes on

2:23:59Twitter logo and a LinkedIn logo says something about Apple's relationship

2:24:05with those companies that well ideally I want to see first among equals but I

2:24:20would

2:24:21if Apple is more open with sharing services I would totally I think I

2:24:27honestly think they think they've figured out how to do it yet but anyway

2:24:34somewhere in there is an opportunity for Microsoft a big up and write English

2:24:40thank you for being there is gonna be a short show