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0:00:25the incomparable number 230 January 2015
0:00:33welcome back everybody the incomparable
0:00:37podcast host Jason still we I'm
0:00:39convening a very large edition of our
0:00:42comic book club to talk about a
0:00:44comic-book chosen by the first person
0:00:47i'm going to introduce to Lisa
0:00:49Schmeisser Italy charter member of the
0:00:51comic book club hello hi it's nice to be
0:00:53here and and you chose promethea my and
0:00:57alan moore available where comics are
0:01:01sold on the internet and elsewhere and
0:01:03and we are going to be talking about the
0:01:05first couple of trades so if you have
0:01:07not read any of it and you don't want to
0:01:09be spoiled you should go read the first
0:01:10couple trades and then come back and and
0:01:13a welcome back thanks reading those
0:01:15trade see what i did there anyway the
0:01:16other members of our comic book club
0:01:18tonight Tony sindelar hi Tony
0:01:20hello nerds I don't have anything
0:01:23quickly to say about committee except
0:01:24that i read it i'm here to talk about it
0:01:26well good i do the homework
0:01:28hello nerds I did the homework mont
0:01:31actually also here hi Monty hello that
0:01:34this is our world now reading comic
0:01:37books his homework
0:01:38yes the Nerds one and that they have an
0:01:40assignment for you sleep with the
0:01:42weeping gorilla says and in episode
0:01:44we've been girl I gotta read comic books
0:01:47homework
0:01:49yes your streams down the weakened
0:01:51condition there's one and this is our
0:01:52world now Erica and sign is also out
0:01:55there hello hello yes i have learned
0:01:58that reading comic books can be like
0:02:00homework
0:02:00ah very nice yeah and since that's
0:02:03foreshadowing and chips others is also
0:02:06out there hello
0:02:07it's an honor to be here to talk about
0:02:08one of the most important comic creators
0:02:11ever
0:02:11and I'm talking of course about letter
0:02:13Todd klein yes he said that's amazing
0:02:17no i'm serious i love his work yeah i
0:02:19was making notes about how good his
0:02:21lettering was in the Attic book
0:02:23oh my God he's already promised look
0:02:24Monty don't do that it was digital i was
0:02:27writing on my screen
0:02:28okay well don't write on your screen
0:02:31monitor that's terrible
0:02:32alright Lisa why did you pick promethea
0:02:34and have us read it and I'm not judging
0:02:37here well maybe a little bit of you
0:02:39don't use yeah I had a few reasons for
0:02:42picking it up one
0:02:43it's relatively old so it's easy to get
0:02:45used copies for cheap
0:02:47oh yeah maybe 9 and 15 exactly one of my
0:02:49goals for having one of the things I'm
0:02:52trying to do with or I'd like us to do
0:02:54with kaka club this year is introduced
0:02:58comics to people who really don't have
0:03:00time everyone stay to pop into a shop
0:03:02and read and so I thought well if it's
0:03:04an older home me and if its older comic
0:03:06you can get used which means that it's
0:03:08not a big financial strain either and
0:03:09that was another reason I'm the second
0:03:12reason I chose promethea is the book is
0:03:14completely done so we could if we wanted
0:03:17to assess it as a whole body of work we
0:03:21can talk about this comic knowing full
0:03:24well that Alan Moore is not going to add
0:03:25on like another five issues and
0:03:26completely torpedo everything we think
0:03:28about it right so it's a finite
0:03:30closed-loop it's not like when you talk
0:03:31about a TV series and the Creator hit
0:03:33the reset button I mean this is done
0:03:34it's close it's a finite thing
0:03:35the third reason I chose it is because
0:03:38it's a deconstruction of the superhero
0:03:42genre and it's also equals in a really
0:03:45weird religious direction and i was just
0:03:47fascinated by i was fascinated by it by
0:03:50the fact that he said you know I'm going
0:03:52to do I'm going to take the Wonder Woman
0:03:53myth and i'm going to mix it up with a
0:03:55whole bunch of mystical stuff and see
0:03:57what comes out the other side
0:03:58the fourth reason I chose it was because
0:04:01it is the most optimistic
0:04:02post-apocalyptic work I've ever run
0:04:04across and given the amount of a
0:04:06post-apocalyptic dystopian fiction we've
0:04:08talked about here I thought to be kind
0:04:10of refreshing to to approach something
0:04:11that's all trial on the end of the world
0:04:13her ray and finally the fifth reason is
0:04:16to me it's the most Alan more thing he's
0:04:19ever written it is it is if if you had
0:04:22to take a look at his body of work and
0:04:24then
0:04:24a pic something that distills the
0:04:26essence of our more down to one book
0:04:28this would be the book to do it there's
0:04:29just enters layer upon layer upon layer
0:04:31and so and finally as I was rereading it
0:04:34the the reason that bubble for my
0:04:36subconscious is this book is now old
0:04:39number we can use it as kind of a
0:04:40historical artifact of the nineties
0:04:43because i'm pretty sure that's when he
0:04:44started thinking about it and writing it
0:04:46and it's fun to see this as an artifact
0:04:48of where comics were going in the
0:04:50nineties and works where societal
0:04:52attitudes were two and then to compare
0:04:54them to what we're doing today
0:04:55so those are all my reasons alright fair
0:04:58enough i I am so i started the one of
0:05:02the reasons I I said let's absolutely do
0:05:05this i mean one is I've read a lot of
0:05:07alan moore and not just the you know
0:05:08watchman and be for vendetta and from
0:05:12hell and swamp thing but also his
0:05:15latter-day comic stuff like Tom strong
0:05:20and top 10 on and on on one level I
0:05:23think you're right that it is very alan
0:05:26moore E&I in all ways including you know
0:05:29the all the great ways and also all the
0:05:31terrible ways yes um I think I think
0:05:33it's all in there any other reason i was
0:05:35fascinated by this is because i was i
0:05:38was thinking about wonder woman and you
0:05:41know with a lot of talk about whether
0:05:43there would be a Wonder Woman movie
0:05:45after various failed TV series which
0:05:47they've announced they are going to do a
0:05:49Wonder Woman movie now and um also I
0:05:52went and saw a play called lasso of
0:05:55truth which is actually about the guy
0:05:58who invented wonder woman which is a
0:06:00fascinating story in unto itself
0:06:03I have you read the Jill Lepore article
0:06:05which is exempted from her longer booked
0:06:06on the origins of wonder woman I i
0:06:08haven't although I feel like I since I
0:06:10saw an entire play that it's probably
0:06:13none of its new but like that the
0:06:14polygamous relationship and that's the
0:06:16name undertones and his pretty strong
0:06:18feminist feelings and all of that yes
0:06:19and in fact he is the creator of the
0:06:21love the love the light detectors to the
0:06:23man who invented Wonder Woman's lasso of
0:06:25truth also invented the actual last
0:06:28three the white detector
0:06:30I'm in the middle of that book and it is
0:06:32great I thought I knew everything about
0:06:33him but he's a real
0:06:35we're do there's lots more yeah so I I'm
0:06:39that fascinates me that promethea is
0:06:41this you know Alan Moore post modern
0:06:43take on Wonder Woman as well which is
0:06:46this is a mythological figure that is
0:06:48sort of like superimposed on top of a
0:06:50regular girl and creates this creates
0:06:55this kind of superhero Malcolm and so
0:06:57that was it looks like a pretty rich
0:06:59stew to jump into and and and you're not
0:07:02supposed to jump into a stew but that's
0:07:04what i did i jumped into it was like a
0:07:05hot tub full of stew emperor has jumped
0:07:07right in any way and I found it
0:07:10fascinating i don't know where we go
0:07:11from here what with elisa would you like
0:07:13to throw something out because like I
0:07:15said I feel like I feel like this is
0:07:16your baby
0:07:17so the first question I wanted to bring
0:07:19up to the crowd at large was exactly how
0:07:23much do you think more knew about Wonder
0:07:25Woman's history and the Creator because
0:07:27one of the themes that I notice pops up
0:07:30through the course of the first two
0:07:31trades and what I'm going to say I feel
0:07:34like we should respect we should try to
0:07:36focus the discussion on the first two
0:07:37trades because that's what almost always
0:07:39have read and can contribute to but
0:07:42what's the problem what seems to pop up
0:07:44over and over again is the idea of the
0:07:47crater as somebody who has an innate
0:07:50streak of of iconoclasm and that and he
0:07:54comes back that over and over again
0:07:55where the very nature of being a
0:07:57creative person sets you apart from the
0:07:59mainstream and it's also something that
0:08:01while it allows you to contribute to the
0:08:03world and ultimately damages you because
0:08:05as they point out in the comic books
0:08:07promethium for those are you catching a
0:08:10Promethean is is basically the
0:08:12ratification imagination she's the
0:08:14living avatar of imagination she was
0:08:16original little girl to God's pulled her
0:08:19into the material which is the room
0:08:21imagination is so basically she's a
0:08:23living avatar when people imagine her
0:08:24she can possess them or they can become
0:08:26her living avatar and earth and over the
0:08:28course the first two books you get
0:08:29introduced to a series of artists or
0:08:32artist muses who had imagined and and
0:08:35and loved and become invested promethea
0:08:36and so they came for me for themselves
0:08:38and as one of the points out every
0:08:40single one of them died as a result of
0:08:41engaging in the Smith creating this myth
0:08:44and becoming this myth
0:08:46so what I wonder about is is do you
0:08:48think alan moore new a whole lot about
0:08:50Wonder Woman or is this just a general
0:08:52larger statement on creativity
0:08:54um yes he'll check on that Chicago is it
0:09:01had to be both I mean I'll alan moore is
0:09:04is a genius about the comics field and
0:09:06is is it
0:09:08he's an artistic formalist who really
0:09:11digs in deep into comics and tries to
0:09:14make this dries to make them do things
0:09:18that they've never done before but it's
0:09:19all about the art form itself so he had
0:09:23to know how about the history and all
0:09:25and all that but at the same time at the
0:09:29same time it it turns into such as
0:09:31meditation on imagination itself that
0:09:34I'm reading this thing and all i can
0:09:36hear in the background as a magician
0:09:37Doug Henning in the background talking
0:09:38about in the mountain a mission
0:09:41oh that's worth of imagination everybody
0:09:44here maybe you are worlds avatar
0:09:46Prometheus win the war
0:09:47ok actually let me go around one table
0:09:50um who is your favorite permuting out of
0:09:52out of the ones that we get introduced
0:09:53to everyone
0:09:55did everybody find one they identified
0:09:56with her is there one that you liked or
0:09:58disliked or really related to like what
0:10:01are your emotional responses to the
0:10:02different Prometheus and I mean I like I
0:10:04want to start by saying I like the fact
0:10:06that there is in the in the you get
0:10:09introduced to promethea through the
0:10:12current holder of of promethea mhm who
0:10:17is aging and a band and Barbara yeah and
0:10:22she's not really up to it anymore
0:10:23yeah it and that's interesting and very
0:10:25traditional comical care right like the
0:10:28Gold Eagle the but yet Golden Age hero
0:10:30is about to retire but the Silver Age
0:10:32hero is going to step in and become the
0:10:34new promethea right but what I love is
0:10:37that then when / media visits the the
0:10:40land of imagination she finds everybody
0:10:43who's ever been promethea basically
0:10:45hanging out by a pool and talking to
0:10:48each other and there's like essentially
0:10:50Greek chorus of Prometheus and I i love
0:10:53that as a concept to the fact that like
0:10:55the whole Prometheus squad is there as
0:10:58promethea
0:10:59to comment on what's going on and to
0:11:02help her out i think that that takes it
0:11:05to a whole other level from the you know
0:11:07you just meet your you know the mentor
0:11:09the originator know you mean everybody
0:11:11was at the job
0:11:12yeah the greatest thing yeah yeah so I
0:11:14thought that was I thought that was
0:11:15really cool
0:11:16I'm my favorite promethea is Margie a
0:11:20little help hardly be there between to
0:11:21work and I get defensive over and also
0:11:23just because i love Little Nemo in
0:11:25Slumberland so i'm totally in for any
0:11:28references or in this case out right
0:11:30back off some of the concept I honestly
0:11:32had trouble remembering who is who I
0:11:34trouble keeping them keeping them
0:11:37separate in my mind I was constantly
0:11:39having to go back and be like okay which
0:11:40one is this and what's their deal so I
0:11:43wouldn't say I had a favorite because I
0:11:44struggled so much to remember who was
0:11:46who
0:11:46yeah i'll be boring and say that sophie
0:11:49was my favorite but one of the things
0:11:51that I noticed was that their voices
0:11:54they they occasionally become very
0:11:59specific and distinct and otherwise and
0:12:02at other times they talk like each other
0:12:04and I don't know how I don't know how
0:12:08purposeful that was but it also made it
0:12:11difficult for me to tell them apart
0:12:12sometimes you have to really pay
0:12:15attention to the costuming and
0:12:17everything else and I think you know
0:12:19they're supposed to be different aspects
0:12:21of the same character but luckily for me
0:12:24Margie not only doesn't talk like
0:12:25everyone else she had better anything to
0:12:27talk fine being a genius
0:12:29yes she's not even really a Prometheus
0:12:30she just sort of she's just heard this
0:12:32annoying tag along the cartoon character
0:12:34or in a comic book that makes some sense
0:12:39yeah i guess if I had if I had to pick a
0:12:41favorite it would be Sophie bangs mostly
0:12:43simply because i felt like i was kind of
0:12:46on the journey with her she had no idea
0:12:48what was going on at the beginning in
0:12:49and I had no idea what was going on
0:12:51either so therefore she was my my
0:12:53identification character
0:12:55well I mean yeah I mean that that's good
0:12:57night and like I really like i like
0:12:58Barbara and the fact that she's dealing
0:13:00with the fact that she's passing this is
0:13:02the end of her life essential and she's
0:13:03passing this torch to Sophie and then
0:13:06you know inevitably she's gonna pass
0:13:08into the the realm of imagination i will
0:13:11throw a shout out to Bill
0:13:12because I i think the idea that a
0:13:15closeted gay male artist who drew
0:13:20promethea and sort of uh I idolized her
0:13:24and then that plotline me that he takes
0:13:28where he becomes promethea and falls in
0:13:30love with a man who doesn't realize that
0:13:31this is a man who's turned into a woman
0:13:34and ends up getting killed as a result I
0:13:37I thought that was poignant and also
0:13:40quite an interesting like if you're
0:13:42gonna have this wall of Prometheus to
0:13:43have that be be one of the twist i
0:13:45thought was was really brilliant and I
0:13:48could also identify which promethea was
0:13:51Bill so how do i do that that one is
0:13:53delicate the planet is gonna love that
0:13:55little rings around the legs yeah or
0:13:58know what I think of what i thought was
0:14:00interesting when I went back through and
0:14:03looked at him is one of the reasons i
0:14:04love Barbara is because I feel like over
0:14:06the course the book you're also getting
0:14:08a look at the it isn't in sort of a
0:14:11subtle meditation on the impact that
0:14:13created a creative life has on a
0:14:15relationship and the feedback loop
0:14:17between the creator of their partner and
0:14:19and how much it might be a joint
0:14:21endeavor and how much of it isn't
0:14:22because remember Barbara says well he
0:14:24used he used me as his model for his
0:14:26imagination for promethea I don't have
0:14:28his imagination which is why I basically
0:14:30look like myself and help in the costume
0:14:32right but she's even soup and that's
0:14:34fascinating she becomes Promethean not
0:14:35not the writer but but the music his
0:14:39wife
0:14:39yeah yeah she's the model and um I
0:14:42realize we're restricting this to the
0:14:44first two books but in the third there's
0:14:46actually a really lovely sequence where
0:14:48you do get to see more about their
0:14:50relationship and it is very end it
0:14:54really it it makes me wonder if alan
0:14:57moore was was saying something about you
0:14:59know this is this is the reality of what
0:15:02it's like to be the person who's in love
0:15:03with the creative force this is the
0:15:04reality of what it's like to be a
0:15:05creative person who has the need to love
0:15:08and connect with somebody and pull them
0:15:09into their endeavor even if they don't
0:15:10fully understand it so so i really like
0:15:13Barbara for that reason I really like
0:15:15Barbara and Bill i do want to interject
0:15:17though that one of the things that make
0:15:19me a little uncomfortable reading this
0:15:20book is that they're all these feminist
0:15:23statements
0:15:25we're in a time right now with gamer
0:15:28date and everything else going on
0:15:29I kept in the back of my head I don't
0:15:32know Alan Moore very well as far as is
0:15:35and personal life and life is outside of
0:15:38comics and things like that but i felt a
0:15:41little bit like I was being mansplain 2m
0:15:43that the guy telling the story has
0:15:47Barbara looking older and overweight and
0:15:50unattractive bill has it still has his
0:15:55gender issues becomes a her and I almost
0:15:59would have felt more comfortable if it
0:16:01hadn't been alan moore writing this but
0:16:03if this had been woman writing it that's
0:16:05it was funny as I actually felt almost
0:16:07the opposite because when you get to the
0:16:09whole tantric sex scene no the cup and
0:16:11the wand and the cup in the wand and I'm
0:16:12like I got really really know who's back
0:16:17to that I could hear and that's why I
0:16:19roll my eyes I say hello to taro and
0:16:21it's all and you look at the city on the
0:16:23cards and you notice the harlot at one
0:16:25point and i went back and took a look
0:16:28and I thought well on the one hand he's
0:16:29got this whole Prometheus a woman and
0:16:32she's imagination but on the other hand
0:16:33he's got some pretty gender determinist
0:16:35ideas going on and so I was a little
0:16:38uncomfortable with the book on that
0:16:39level because I feel like he starts off
0:16:41strong by pointing out that imagination
0:16:44should in theory make general fluid in a
0:16:46construct but then it turns into but
0:16:48know the laws of the universe are that
0:16:50man and woman in and ask really thus
0:16:53were going with it i'll just i'll just
0:16:55briefly point out that the year after
0:16:57promethea ended is the year lost girls
0:17:00finally came out so well anybody else
0:17:06here comes to reading loss girls i read
0:17:08it i own it you on it yeah for sudo
0:17:12artistic ok where he he only reads it
0:17:18for the article know it is
0:17:19yeah well it's actually one of the most
0:17:21angry and emotionally disturbing of his
0:17:24work and i'm not i'm not being arch
0:17:26about that it was some it'sit's general
0:17:29generally speaking there's a lot of
0:17:31anger on that and there's a sequence in
0:17:33the first two books again where there's
0:17:34like those two demons for hire to go
0:17:36after Sophie early on
0:17:37and they they call the cab driver what
0:17:41he's doing to his granddaughter and a
0:17:42handgun and I was like okay I've this is
0:17:45clearly a theme that he's working on
0:17:47because it comes up again and again the
0:17:49damage that people can do two children
0:17:50that that's like a huge thread that runs
0:17:51your loss girls and I thought it was
0:17:53interesting that he puts it out there
0:17:55and then he gives the reader this this
0:17:57some almost unearned sense of catharsis
0:18:00with oh don't worry bad people will go
0:18:03get their comeuppance because there are
0:18:04forces in the University give it to them
0:18:05so that was something that stuck with me
0:18:08it it didn't the first time I read the
0:18:10series but you know the first of the
0:18:11series I had lost girls huh
0:18:13so there you go oh well i tried to just
0:18:16come back i tried to do some background
0:18:18because I'm like Shirley other comic
0:18:19sites have tackled this let's see if
0:18:20anybody's done this and I kept burning
0:18:23cross these essays forever like I I
0:18:24don't know what to say and this made me
0:18:27think of the biggest question I want to
0:18:28ask you guys which is do you think that
0:18:31this book might be perhaps a little too
0:18:33complex with too many layers sisters and
0:18:36systems in meeting
0:18:37yeah or or or you know are we struggling
0:18:41because we may be used to reading really
0:18:42complex pros novels but when you get so
0:18:46many different levels of narrative like
0:18:47you having a graphic novel where is all
0:18:49of this visual imagery on top of the
0:18:50text and you have to negotiate the
0:18:52relationship between them to do you
0:18:54think maybe we're getting like what
0:18:55basically amounts to four times the
0:18:56complex novel is this the part where I
0:18:58say yes again yes this time this time i
0:19:02was reading it on my computer so i was
0:19:04using guided view from panel to panel
0:19:07I've lifted the guided view which I
0:19:09never used to say let's see what the
0:19:11person who did guided view things i
0:19:13should look at the end to this is a
0:19:14comic that breaks comiXology it is
0:19:17because so many so much of the design is
0:19:19here's the whole page isn't that amazing
0:19:21and guess what are these panels go there
0:19:23is overdoing it was like here's some
0:19:25panels now let's zoom out now we're
0:19:27gonna go back in now come back out
0:19:29no man as I was I was looking at the
0:19:32sequence where Sophie is is busy
0:19:35BIP BIP bopping through it's the it's
0:19:39the last issue in trade paperback number
0:19:42two
0:19:42yes chapter 6i have Magnus's about this
0:19:45issue the stupid scrabble tiles at the
0:19:47bottom
0:19:48pentagram and oh there's a stupid
0:19:50running joke at the bottom and the joke
0:19:51is done by man in different stages of
0:19:53development oh look there's a history of
0:19:54Western civilization of the top
0:19:56yeah then on top of that you have macro
0:19:59and micro who are busy giving you really
0:20:01bad hackneyed Rhymes and there's the
0:20:03it's the Socratic dialogues and I
0:20:05thought to myself only you can only do
0:20:08some comics and then another party was
0:20:10like I was born I always wanted to
0:20:15remove the two snakes in the caduceus
0:20:17were and what their personalities were
0:20:19like no I never wanted to know that what
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0:22:27uncomfortable if you read the script for
0:22:30from hell
0:22:31only every panel has a thousand words
0:22:35describing everything that's in it and
0:22:37explaining all the research he did which
0:22:38is why I think you know everything about
0:22:40William Moulton Marston yeah but it's
0:22:42like this was alan moore deciding i'm
0:22:46just going to put in everything I think
0:22:47of ya
0:22:49yes my entire worldview yeah which is
0:22:51why I think this is like the most
0:22:52quintessentially mauryan thing ever
0:22:54because it's him doing all sorts of
0:22:56fancy intellectual backflips because one
0:22:59of things i do love about legal shorter
0:23:01gentleman for example is how he
0:23:03basically it's basically highfalutin
0:23:04fanfic oh sure it's gotten less
0:23:07highfalutin nothing yet has i got like
0:23:09the one volume or like oh so so so that
0:23:12we have been harvested subject these
0:23:13days that's about where i was like a
0:23:15I'll find some other things treat it was
0:23:18obvious like for a while he really love
0:23:20these characters and love these stories
0:23:21and he loved the idea of trying to fit
0:23:22them together in a hole macro narrative
0:23:24right and so here he's kind of doing the
0:23:27same thing where author and Hermes and
0:23:29all thrown floss and i'll throw in the
0:23:30history of the Western world and i'll
0:23:32throw in the Kabbalah and then i'll do a
0:23:34whole lot of commentary on how awful
0:23:36Generation X is and i'll send up the
0:23:38super and after a while you're like dude
0:23:40we get it dialed back man I kind of look
0:23:43at it as sort of have to step back and
0:23:46look at it it's just a work of art and
0:23:48usually anytime i described something as
0:23:50a work of art it means it's not
0:23:52something that I really appreciate it on
0:23:54an emotional level it's something that
0:23:56look at it and say that this
0:23:58intellectually appreciate it took an
0:24:00awful lot of work and I appreciate that
0:24:02that there are this many intellectual
0:24:04backflips that went into it i was i was
0:24:07actually really excited after eating the
0:24:08first trade because I i thought at first
0:24:11that maybe it was going to be a little
0:24:12bit more of a straightforward narrative
0:24:13that you had and i love the idea of the
0:24:16land of imagination reminded me of like
0:24:18fantasia from the neverending story but
0:24:21the more we got into the you know the
0:24:23Kabbalah on the Tarot and the mysticism
0:24:25I mean I've read an awful lot of stuff
0:24:27about that sort of thing but i prefer to
0:24:29read about that in a more
0:24:31straightforward you know kind of like
0:24:33this just made me want to go back and
0:24:34reread breaking open the head by Daniel
0:24:36Pinchbeck which is a a real-world story
0:24:39of self-discovery as opposed to this
0:24:41very artsy fartsy version thereof so I
0:24:44just felt like I was it was preaching to
0:24:45the choir and I don't like being
0:24:47preached to
0:24:48and I really don't like being preached
0:24:49you when I have to read like six
0:24:51different types of things are going on
0:24:53the same page
0:24:54some of it in poem haha yeah although I
0:24:57i liked it more than the Invisibles
0:25:00which is grant morrison kind of doing
0:25:01the same thing as yeah okay you know
0:25:04what i'm talking about really sighs you
0:25:08know they're kind of in a similar place
0:25:09in my head where you know very smart
0:25:13people who I respected strongly
0:25:14encouraged me to read them and I got a
0:25:16lot further in prometheus than i did in
0:25:18the Invisibles but like yeah i got i
0:25:20have tried one of the collection of the
0:25:22Invisibles that I have never finished it
0:25:24and I'm not I don't
0:25:26you never will I think you can launch
0:25:28the podcast called Lisa grumbles about
0:25:30the Invisibles for 45 minutes and I
0:25:32could probably fill it up for like six
0:25:33weeks some people who have recommended
0:25:35some other very good comics to be really
0:25:37like the Invisibles but like yeah I
0:25:39could not get into it this book reminded
0:25:41me of another grant morrison book an
0:25:44earlier one tho animal man oh man just
0:25:47oh that's oh wow well tied into the loss
0:25:52what was that the Lost Children which
0:25:53was that big old vertical multi
0:25:54crossover that had part of Sandman and
0:25:58it had animal man and had Doom Patrol
0:26:01and know and like 10 feet from the and
0:26:05swamp thing to think it's tied into it
0:26:07somehow and and whatsherface the little
0:26:09girl from Animal Man and then I went
0:26:11back and read grant grant morrison's
0:26:12animal ran around and was like I I don't
0:26:15take enough drugs to read this on a
0:26:16regular basis haha but a lot of the same
0:26:19stuff is going on here that that was a
0:26:22series that starts out as a commentary
0:26:26on superheroes and ends as a commentary
0:26:30on comic books and plays a lot of the
0:26:32same tricks I thought better than
0:26:35promethea did because Prometheus a
0:26:37polemic and this gets into the third
0:26:40fourth and fifth trade paperbacks mommy
0:26:43there's a big difference between books
0:26:45to one and two and what comes after that
0:26:47it's it's huge it's like it it's like a
0:26:51lot more to sit it's time to preach yeah
0:26:53by like by the time you to book five you
0:26:55gotta be in there right and actually i
0:26:57have to say without without being
0:26:58spoilery the very last issue is is the
0:27:02voice sort of changes in its it's much
0:27:04more straightforward and it's a lot less
0:27:05you know I don't know if it's a lot less
0:27:08silly i guess i thought so honestly I
0:27:10think my favorite one was the very very
0:27:12last one where it's more just a case of
0:27:14of el amor
0:27:15he just kind of strips away some of the
0:27:17artifice in between himself and their
0:27:19the reader it is basically more just
0:27:21talking straight at you rather than
0:27:23putting it in layer after layer of gauzy
0:27:26weirdness I feel like he kind of insist
0:27:28on doing that at some point it always
0:27:30works that's usually where i get
0:27:31exasperated see i'd rather have that
0:27:34than all the rest of it
0:27:36I want to ask you something and didn't
0:27:37occur to me until I didn't reread a
0:27:39Promethean and then went back and looked
0:27:40at some of his earlier works the
0:27:43friendship between stacia and Sophie I
0:27:46wanted to see what you guys thought
0:27:48about that friendship how it reads to
0:27:50you what you think they see in each
0:27:52other and why so much attention is paid
0:27:54to it i hope i never have a friendship
0:27:56like that I just I felt that way that i
0:27:58read it was that they were both such a
0:28:00damaged people who did not really know
0:28:02how to get along and society that they
0:28:03couldn't do any better than each other
0:28:05and I kept hoping that maybe they would
0:28:07just go ahead on separate ways and find
0:28:08some real friends and yeah you guys have
0:28:10read more than me but i have to say that
0:28:12was kind of the stuff that I struggled
0:28:14with the most I mean everything else is
0:28:15so kind of is all this kind of weird
0:28:17fantastic stuff and the stuff between
0:28:20them like just didn't know i didn't find
0:28:23that writing is good and it didn't feel
0:28:24particularly believable
0:28:26I guess yeah because the only the the
0:28:28most charitable explanation I can come
0:28:30up with is maybe station is supposed to
0:28:32be more steak on the vacuity or
0:28:34shallowness of Generation X because
0:28:36there's a lot of stuff in here that
0:28:37makes me think that he tends that he
0:28:39really hated the nineties like no
0:28:43because a lot of the aesthetic I i was
0:28:45looking at the trends that station rocks
0:28:47and a lot of it is is very 1990s club
0:28:50kid looking you know what the the
0:28:52beehives and the hair colors and things
0:28:53like that
0:28:54weeping gorilla is basically that if we
0:28:58can google is like the most 1990s thing
0:29:00i can think of you know and especially
0:29:02when he's got that one trackers like i
0:29:03could if i could only listen to just one
0:29:05more Radiohead track and I was like oh
0:29:07there we go
0:29:07but but i was wondering if stations
0:29:11supposed to be his his indictment of oh
0:29:13this is the chat shallow techno obsessed
0:29:15non-critical consumerist generation and
0:29:18their big into pop culture nostalgia and
0:29:21so they're incapable genuine creativity
0:29:23because he has such act of hostility for
0:29:25that character i think that especially
0:29:27the club she's at with the terrible rock
0:29:30lyrics
0:29:31oh yes laughing all over the place
0:29:32that's now are lyrics are like Alan
0:29:35knock it off
0:29:37yeah yeah I'm i wanted to i want to back
0:29:40up to talk about the edit that issue
0:29:42number 12 again only because this is
0:29:44this is we touched on it briefly but now
0:29:47I kinda want to lower the boom on it be
0:29:49is this I I I like Erica I appreciated
0:29:54the effort
0:29:56good job good effort that went into it
0:29:58and get it the same time I kind of hated
0:30:00it
0:30:01yeah and so it reminded me of like an
0:30:07art installation where they might have
0:30:09liked some paintings on the walls and
0:30:12some sculpture and you think oh it's art
0:30:14but there's also like a boom box playing
0:30:16beat poetry on one side and another boom
0:30:20box playing different beat poetry on the
0:30:22other side so it's a cacophony and you
0:30:24don't understand it because there's just
0:30:26too much going on you're completely
0:30:27overwhelmed and then somebody is like
0:30:30yelling footnotes at you
0:30:32that is what that is and it's the entire
0:30:34issues like that and it is alan moore
0:30:37telling us how much research is done and
0:30:40or what his personal metaphysical
0:30:43beliefs about the universe and or tarot
0:30:46cards are and it is it is so far off the
0:30:52rails that it's it's kind of
0:30:54breathtaking to watch somebody with that
0:30:56level of talent when he brings up a
0:30:57Harpo Marx tarot cards are all really
0:30:59wait what
0:31:00dude if you were on some like amanita
0:31:03muscaria mushrooms you would be in linux
0:31:05understanding everything to a degree of
0:31:07clearly an issue 12 and it blew my mind
0:31:10man
0:31:11what I feel like this I actually feel
0:31:15like this book is a huge artifact of the
0:31:16nineteen nineties like intellectually
0:31:18and psychically and pop-culture speaking
0:31:20one of the reasons i actually dropped
0:31:22out after my Master's is I was in grad
0:31:25school at the time when
0:31:26deconstructionism was huge and everyone
0:31:30was time we break down the signifiers of
0:31:32meaning and I should we should we should
0:31:34put know by the way deconstructionism
0:31:35met back then did not mean taking all
0:31:38the different ingredients of a sandwich
0:31:39and putting separately on a plate that
0:31:41has never because you know it was
0:31:43shocked terrible and it was a lot of
0:31:46holiness zoo and you need to challenge
0:31:48the the borders that have been ratified
0:31:50by the Academy blogger and I was like I
0:31:53can't really spend another four years
0:31:55pretending that I respect this so i left
0:31:57and
0:31:58but there's 12 promethea for you that an
0:32:01issue 12 a Promethean was like honestly
0:32:03it was like the performance art I had a
0:32:05class in the class that actually it got
0:32:07me thinking I need to get the heck out
0:32:08of school was one where are our
0:32:11professor had challenged us to do a
0:32:12creative interpretation of the history
0:32:14of communications technology i am Morse
0:32:18code that's right Joey I am a radio way
0:32:21like there's this one guy who came in in
0:32:24Latin like put himself in a foil box and
0:32:26began reciting beat poetry years there
0:32:29were people who liked it
0:32:30interpretive dances to hypertext and
0:32:32jenny holz her stuff and I was like and
0:32:35I was like I can't even I just wrote a
0:32:37regular paper deconstructing the
0:32:38creation myths and wired magazine for
0:32:40two years and an issue 12 was basically
0:32:44like sitting through that class all over
0:32:46again and you know what I looked at the
0:32:48scrabble tiles and was like oh my God
0:32:50he's done nothing but a mammogram is
0:32:51this is this is I sort of like an
0:32:53immigrant anagrams are what you do in
0:32:55fifth grade you're like whoa if you
0:32:56rearrange letters they need different
0:32:58things are the same set now my mind
0:33:01yeah it's kind of it's kind of a parlor
0:33:03trick I think it's I think it's a shame
0:33:05because I again there's a lot of really
0:33:08great deep interesting material here but
0:33:12it's like I mean at we say this so often
0:33:14on this show in fact it's like it's like
0:33:16there's nobody there because he's a lot
0:33:18more right there's nobody there to say
0:33:19Alan too far
0:33:21dial it back on and there are plenty of
0:33:23people out there who are saying you go
0:33:25Alan maurya genius one of working on
0:33:28Virginia's they feel smarter and having
0:33:29read in this is a work of genius in the
0:33:31sense that he's kind of a genius and he
0:33:33did this work that is totally bizarre
0:33:35and out there so there's that
0:33:37likelike again I'm going back to Erica
0:33:39there's that analytical level of like
0:33:40what did alan moore mean when he did
0:33:43this
0:33:43that's fine but in terms of like being
0:33:46an an editor or somebody saying what was
0:33:49this what what do we think this was
0:33:51going to be I get to issue 12 unlike
0:33:53nope this is not what we thought this
0:33:55was going to be this is kind of totally
0:33:56nuts and you know I I liked where you
0:34:00were going with the idea of sort of
0:34:02taking me wonder woman kind of tropes
0:34:05and investigating those and and
0:34:07commenting on them
0:34:08we haven't even talked about the fact
0:34:09that you know promethea Sophie
0:34:12is a as as as they see a point out
0:34:16because she's a really good friend that
0:34:18Sophie Sophie is kinda flat chested and
0:34:21promethea is a cartoon character she's a
0:34:24giant she's like an Amazon with big
0:34:26boobs and I you look at that and you
0:34:29think this is a great commentary on the
0:34:33you know on individuality and and who's
0:34:37the real person here and how we depict
0:34:38women and and idealization of women and
0:34:42all of that you know this nice rich
0:34:44thing to draw from an issue 12 comes in
0:34:46like oh ok the Big Bang there's a woman
0:34:49with a snake in the sky real seriously
0:34:50the Big Bang is a male ejaculation and
0:34:52then cosmic inflation is a female
0:34:54something that's the second card
0:34:57oh did you see that money 5,000 yeah
0:35:01that what I'm also wondering is we're
0:35:03reading this in 2015 and graphic novels
0:35:06are are pretty much they've come out of
0:35:09the no really they're our basement where
0:35:11they were hunting and because because
0:35:13you have to get over the last decade
0:35:14we've had you know wonderful works of
0:35:16nonfiction reportage and we've had
0:35:18really great contain graphic novels and
0:35:20it's kind of hard to remember sometimes
0:35:22that promethea was spawned as it were
0:35:25when this this this repositioning of
0:35:29comics and graphic novels when that was
0:35:30still pretty ongoing and my senses is
0:35:33that more is smart but he also whether
0:35:35or not he admits that he wants to be
0:35:36recognized as one as a literary genius
0:35:39and favor
0:35:40there's a little bit of trihard to it
0:35:42where you like to just you know maybe
0:35:44four systems of meeting per page not six
0:35:46you know how I think it's important to
0:35:48look at promethea in context when it
0:35:50came out because he was also doing top
0:35:5310 and Tom strong like that at exactly
0:35:57the same time they all three of those
0:35:58launched within two months of each other
0:36:00and top 10 is good it's not you know
0:36:04annoyingly deep lake from media is and
0:36:07Tom strong is just fun
0:36:09yes so I think at the time he was giving
0:36:11people a range of the Alan Moore's and
0:36:13they could pick which one they liked do
0:36:15you like the one with the talking
0:36:16gorilla and so much so that it was
0:36:18during when you get Tom strong appearing
0:36:21in prometheus later on and it's just
0:36:24like I'm not I'm not
0:36:25i thought i was reading this kind of
0:36:27comic and now we're back to that kind of
0:36:28comic again
0:36:29yeah and I like well I like top 10 and
0:36:31Tom strong and i would say both I like
0:36:33them both enjoyed them both better than
0:36:35promethea but i also will accept in that
0:36:38duality that prometheus is obviously an
0:36:40artist trying to do something big big
0:36:45and about the universe where is Tom Tom
0:36:47strong top 10 or kind of about comic
0:36:49books and i gotta-i gotta make sales
0:36:51I could make some but they're also i
0:36:53mean while I comment on the John run
0:36:55yeah and and then do a twist narrative
0:36:57and and all of that and so I can
0:36:59appreciate Prometheus's ambition level
0:37:03versus top 10 tom strong which I like I
0:37:05also i I don't know sometimes I wonder I
0:37:08try to think about alan moore and
0:37:10forgive me for taking this even further
0:37:11off topic but sometimes I wonder about
0:37:13him in the context of somebody who has
0:37:16sort of done everything there is to do
0:37:18and has been acclaimed as one of the
0:37:20greats in his chosen medium and why do
0:37:25you do after that and and then he's got
0:37:27his extra anger about like DC Comics
0:37:29taking advantage of him and all that and
0:37:31so you end up with this like you know
0:37:32what it what's your next acting for him
0:37:35it was america's best comics i'm going
0:37:37to do these different titles
0:37:39I'm gonna you know i'm going to do
0:37:40something super hero we over here and
0:37:42I'm going to do this something
0:37:43mythological over there and I mean it is
0:37:45kind of on one level I mean I have no
0:37:48idea how he turned out all the money
0:37:50from the movie so obviously he's got
0:37:51enough money to live on and doesn't care
0:37:53and can just turn the money down or give
0:37:56it to dave gibbons out of spite for
0:37:57judgment
0:37:58well most of the movies are not making a
0:38:00lot of money that legal ordinary
0:38:02gentlemen movie
0:38:02well that's true but I mean just for
0:38:04that just for the rights my
0:38:05understanding is they keep trying to
0:38:06shovel money and alan moore and he keeps
0:38:08saying give it to the colorist give it
0:38:09to the letter or give it to the artist I
0:38:11don't want it i don't want your filthy
0:38:13money that's fine but so then let's just
0:38:16assume we can do whatever he wants
0:38:18that's kind of fascinating like you you
0:38:21have reached the pinnacle you can do
0:38:23whatever you want and you know and then
0:38:26that puts you in this position we're
0:38:28like all right well I'm gonna do this
0:38:29crazy like kabbala infested uh your
0:38:35woman gets religion
0:38:37let's do that and what I've done with
0:38:39that I'm gonna do pornographic fanfic
0:38:41well retired my giant mansion and
0:38:43worship by snake god my pal Neil rights
0:38:46doubles he's living his best life I
0:38:49think we should talk about that
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0:40:12comfortable that the word I keep coming
0:40:14back to when i think about this is it I
0:40:16feel like he thinks of this as maybe his
0:40:20masterwork because it ties together a
0:40:22bunch of other things it looks like he's
0:40:24really putting himself on the page
0:40:26perhaps more than even in some of his
0:40:28other work in this this really is a
0:40:30worldview in you know in color and yeah
0:40:34good for him
0:40:35I'll see your I'll see your masterwork
0:40:38and I'll raise it to manifest oh yeah
0:40:41okay that works that works is one of the
0:40:43things that I find astounding is how
0:40:45much he seems to hate Western
0:40:47civilization because that comes know it
0:40:49does
0:40:49because the way that he depicts 1999
0:40:52that's the world that Sophia station
0:40:54it's pretty clear to me that station is
0:40:55a product of that world like purely and
0:40:57holy of that world
0:40:58well he hates modern Western
0:41:00civilization League of Extraordinary
0:41:01Gentlemen later things suggest he really
0:41:04likes like old stuff we've been girl
0:41:06weeping gorilla is is basically that the
0:41:09the stand-in for I hate the way
0:41:11sentiment has been commercialized and
0:41:12the bands are basically a stand-in for I
0:41:15hate the way music today as nihilistic
0:41:17and doesn't talk about meaningful things
0:41:18like it did in the 60s and the science
0:41:21heroes are an indictment of of the
0:41:23corporatization of the state and also he
0:41:27really hates the fantastic 40 Giants
0:41:32heroes what are you talking about the
0:41:33five small guys
0:41:34yeah I'm totally different number
0:41:37there's like this alien vs thing in a
0:41:39book number two where I made a note but
0:41:42i'm trying to find it now where it's the
0:41:45most ridiculous sterilization that has a
0:41:47solid banging your head against the wall
0:41:48where basically he's talking about how
0:41:50the age of aquarius was so awesome
0:41:51because you have this generation that
0:41:52was totally into spirituality there's a
0:41:54critical mass of people blur blur blur
0:41:56and I'm like are you kidding me with the
0:41:58baby boomers and so this this whole this
0:42:02whole series is pretty much his his
0:42:05contempt for and weirdly enough not his
0:42:08contempt for the baby boomers but rather
0:42:09his contempt for the people who are
0:42:11reacting to baby boomer culture so
0:42:13basically on the one hand it may be as
0:42:15master working on the other hand it's
0:42:17just a little giant standing on the wall
0:42:19no hits he has a giant it's a giant fist
0:42:21raised at the kids saying get off my
0:42:23lawn
0:42:24it kind of feels like that when you when
0:42:25you read through another time you're
0:42:27like wow he really has a lot of contempt
0:42:29for youth culture in this and for modern
0:42:31culture and you know when he's like well
0:42:33the end of the world wouldn't be so bad
0:42:34because we went off track
0:42:36I one of the things I noticed about it
0:42:38and and you know that here's my theory
0:42:40which is the watch watchmen is very much
0:42:42like modern society is doomed and this
0:42:46is like modern society is doomed but
0:42:48it's later and so now he hates a later
0:42:51version of modern society but it's
0:42:52really just whatever is happening he
0:42:55hates it
0:42:55yeah it's a grand old counterculture
0:42:57days that he's
0:42:59but he's pining for ya everything else
0:43:01sucks
0:43:02he's a fascinating character back when
0:43:04you can make an honest living as a drug
0:43:06dealer or something that's what yeah
0:43:07that's the thing it and this goes back
0:43:10to my my n800 of academic
0:43:11deconstructionism to think we should
0:43:14hate on podcast child actors
0:43:16deconstructionism um but the thing is
0:43:18you can't have a counterculture unless
0:43:20you have account unless you have a
0:43:21culture to specifically define it and
0:43:23like I don't think he realizes that in
0:43:25many ways the counterculture both won
0:43:28and lost because they got commodified so
0:43:30you really can't be counterculture at
0:43:31this point because we've become such a
0:43:32polyglot culture and it's like he
0:43:34doesn't recognize that and his works
0:43:37don't recognize that there's this
0:43:38there's this incredible conformance mass
0:43:40and then there's like two or three
0:43:41people who see the real world and you're
0:43:43like really thats see no it's not how
0:43:45that's not how that's not how it's
0:43:47worked and perhaps because again we're
0:43:49looking at this from the filter of 15
0:43:52years on where a lot has changed the
0:43:54global landscape and you know the
0:43:56Internet has has has had the internet is
0:43:58now a fact of life for people there
0:44:01there's a lot of points of view in this
0:44:03book that I i think are really specific
0:44:04to their time like as i was reading I
0:44:07thought you said make a fascinating
0:44:08college class the same way that reading
0:44:10virginia woolf makes a fascinating
0:44:11college class because you don't just
0:44:13read the book what you have to do is
0:44:14understand the context in the history
0:44:15and why it mattered at the time it was
0:44:18created and that's I think is part of it
0:44:19for going back and revisiting promethea
0:44:21I was like wow it is it is starting to
0:44:25read this now it in conduit you know
0:44:27especially 15 years after basically
0:44:29started and realize like how much has
0:44:30changed in how reactionary and and left
0:44:33behind this book filled in some ways I
0:44:35mean it's still a beautiful book i think
0:44:37it will see ya there isn't a single page
0:44:39for the coloring isn't the colors is
0:44:41phenomenal and you know we can rant
0:44:43about how wonderful todd Klein is and
0:44:46they are you know I I really feel like
0:44:48JH williams three means needs a special
0:44:50shout-out yes it's it's a gorgeous book
0:44:52battle use a lot of the ideas behind it
0:44:55and there's there's kind of no heart of
0:44:56this at the middle at the center of it
0:44:57and if you're going to write a polemic
0:44:59or if you're going to be like this is my
0:45:01life this is the culmination of my
0:45:02philosophy like put some put some heart
0:45:04into it i agree with you but I it in the
0:45:07books defense in every single issue
0:45:10there is something in there
0:45:12clever there is something there is some
0:45:14beautiful art in every one of these
0:45:16issues the entire issue as a whole may
0:45:19not hang together at all but there but
0:45:23there is cleverness in here I'm and I
0:45:26take Erica's point about it's a it is a
0:45:29work of art and I take her point about
0:45:33how about that not being a terribly
0:45:35enjoyable statement thing but every once
0:45:38in a while I do like looking at art for
0:45:40art's sake and it may be difficult for
0:45:43me to get emotionally involved in it or
0:45:45for me to appreciate it as a story but
0:45:49it is challenging and there are neat
0:45:51things that happen in every book ok
0:45:55maybe not 36 but we're not anything
0:45:58yeah I think we're being to a little too
0:46:00hard on it that and i think it's it's
0:46:03certainly gorgeous to look at i think
0:46:05it's interesting reading and I think
0:46:07it's fascinating to have a world class
0:46:10weirdo like alan moore it is until it
0:46:13down to his alan murray estate would say
0:46:15this is what I think alan moore of all
0:46:19the Alan Moore's in the world where the
0:46:21alan moore easiest yeah like how
0:46:24ambitious this book is yeah yeah you
0:46:26know that's why I had no I i enjoyed
0:46:29reading it and we'll probably read all
0:46:30of the issues because again i would like
0:46:33to read everything Elmore okay well
0:46:35almost everything maybe not lost girls I
0:46:37has also present he is fat he is a
0:46:40fascinating even when I don't like or
0:46:43agree with what he's doing
0:46:45I'm fascinated to see the a great artist
0:46:47at work and why i like it and don't like
0:46:50it i have to admit there are moments
0:46:51where I feel like he's trolling me as
0:46:53your career because having enjoyed top
0:46:5610 for example there is a subplot early
0:46:59on involving the five swell guys and the
0:47:03painted doll Everett at the hospital
0:47:05that is very twisty plot a superhero e
0:47:08in the same way the top 10 is actually
0:47:11accept its kind of beside the point
0:47:15and its really like you were you're
0:47:17interested in that well that's not what
0:47:18we're telling a story about today and I
0:47:21I even kind of appreciate that but it
0:47:24also reminds me of
0:47:25alan moore when he's focused on telling
0:47:28those kinds of stories and how I mean
0:47:30this is always in the back of my head is
0:47:32alan moore is such a brilliant writer of
0:47:36this this is genre of superhero we kind
0:47:40of stories so good at it and I can tell
0:47:44that he doesn't want to do it
0:47:47yeah and you know he's done it and he's
0:47:49maybe done it better than anybody and he
0:47:51kind of doesn't want to do it again and
0:47:52now he's just playing with me a little
0:47:54bit like see I could do that but i'm not
0:47:56going to and it's his you know it's up
0:47:58to him he doesn't have to write those
0:47:59kinds of stories anymore but he's even
0:48:01when he kind of taunts me a little bit
0:48:03it's like he's so good at it even when
0:48:05he doesn't want to be and you know top
0:48:0710 reminded me how good he was at it I
0:48:10would love to read a book about those
0:48:12five guys to be honest with you the
0:48:13interval goes swell first swell the
0:48:17interpersonal dynamics for great um i
0:48:20love them i love the mayor with the
0:48:23pulse width of and personalities yeah
0:48:26yeah and honestly if you know i would
0:48:29have loved a a side book about the
0:48:31people who are responsible for weeping
0:48:32gorilla because I iphone just in there
0:48:35ya know I i find yeah it's just it there
0:48:38they're all these details that you know
0:48:39in that you could actually spin out into
0:48:41really rich entertaining books on their
0:48:43own and they're just casually tossed out
0:48:46because this is a guy who's idea whose
0:48:47idea factory never shuts down i'm
0:48:50clearly well you know i feel i was for
0:48:52rewarded when i get through his books
0:48:54and then go back and i picked this
0:48:56because you know it really is engaged
0:48:59reading on on a huge level and one of
0:49:03the comic book series i've been reading
0:49:04kind of as a palate cleanser between us
0:49:06I've been going back and revisiting the
0:49:08mike grell run on green arrow which was
0:49:11written but you know so it's books that
0:49:12are like the ladies and it's you know
0:49:15total total shift its in lab it's
0:49:17literally like a palate cleanser it's a
0:49:19sorbet to the the gourmet work about
0:49:21more and it makes me appreciate them
0:49:23both a whole lot more important without
0:49:25more like I'm effectively reading 10
0:49:27books at once and and that got me to
0:49:29thinking what I have this reaction if it
0:49:32were in a different medium if your prose
0:49:34or if it were a TV show and and it did
0:49:36this or or is
0:49:38this type of story that you can only
0:49:39tell in comics I don't know
0:49:41Lynda Carter would have made me
0:49:42interesting promethea but I think
0:49:45there's a lot of women who have made
0:49:47sure he was just a lawless would be
0:49:49great to actually you're right Lucy
0:49:51Lawless basically Barbie she be a
0:49:53fantastic Barbara oh my god i don't know
0:49:56Alan Moore man my eye I have my own like
0:50:0010 different versions of watchmen I mean
0:50:02and I think I've got it i mean i think
0:50:04i've got a couple a couple v for
0:50:07vendetta and I from hell I mean I i am
0:50:09fascinated by Alan Moore that oh yeah
0:50:11and all and all he does and this is this
0:50:13is this is good it's just there are
0:50:15those moments where I feel like a lot
0:50:17more pulls us aside and ok sit here now
0:50:19and let me tell you a little bit of
0:50:21value it would you like to subscribe to
0:50:23my newsletter that is called dodjem
0:50:25logic there's one piece of dialogue i
0:50:28wanted to make fun of just just really
0:50:30briefly just one pic yes there's a
0:50:35moment when I think it's Barbara
0:50:37Prometheus says I'm freaking promethea
0:50:40you idiot
0:50:41yeah and reading that now really
0:50:43reminded me of Frank Miller's dialogue
0:50:45for all-star batman and robin oh-ah I'm
0:50:51going to steal Erica's role here and i'm
0:50:53going to make the obligatory doctor who
0:50:55reference alright I when I light
0:50:58Ghostlight seventh seventh doctor
0:51:01episode where they crammed in so many
0:51:05ideas into three episodes and the and
0:51:09fandom is hugely divided over whether it
0:51:13is genius or whether it is overall
0:51:16incomprehensible nonsense
0:51:17yeah principle not that I think Eric and
0:51:20I are both on the incomprehensible
0:51:21nonsense team here and and I get this
0:51:24feeling over like I do get this feeling
0:51:27over promethea where I where I am
0:51:30struggling i'm struggling through the
0:51:32cool stuff and the cool art and trying
0:51:35to figure out if this is a really a good
0:51:38use of the medium you know I think for
0:51:40me it was a sound very negative about
0:51:43this and I think that the reason for
0:51:45that is simply because they didn't know
0:51:47what I was getting into my expectations
0:51:49worst kind of like I said set up to be
0:51:51one thing if I had known what it was
0:51:53going to be going into it and had was
0:51:56able to sort of shift my mind to be
0:51:57ready for that i think i would have
0:51:59would have liked it more but since i was
0:52:00expecting something a little bit more
0:52:02straightforward it was disapointing to
0:52:04have that that shift but but i do really
0:52:08think that it was beautiful on both
0:52:10surface levels and incredibly deep
0:52:12levels i mean if there's a lot of good
0:52:14in here it
0:52:16this may not be for me but I am honestly
0:52:19glad that it exists and I I wouldn't
0:52:22change a thing
0:52:22I think i'm totally with you Erykah i
0:52:24mean i feel like i watch and read and
0:52:26listen to a lot of stuff that's kind of
0:52:27junk food media and this though I don't
0:52:32think I care for it was really
0:52:34interesting in a way that a lot of stuff
0:52:36i consume is not so like I don't regret
0:52:40reading it which is you know not
0:52:42something i can say about everything i
0:52:43read i don't know and i went back and
0:52:45read it again because I wanted to feel
0:52:47prepared and and I got more out of it
0:52:49the second time and that's not something
0:52:50that's always true but i don't know if i
0:52:53need to own it which I currently do i
0:52:55don't know i'm going to go back and read
0:52:57this again right you know i feel like i
0:52:59got plenty of other comics on the Shelf
0:53:00that I'm much more likely to read many
0:53:03many more times before i decided to pull
0:53:05this one down again and you know I guess
0:53:09that's kind of how i feel about
0:53:10something that I've I've I've read
0:53:11watchmen countless times I don't feel
0:53:14the need to reread his middle stuff of
0:53:17League of Extraordinary Gentlemen
0:53:19anymore i'm okay with that right so yeah
0:53:22yeah there's a moment and book 3 when
0:53:25their characters walking on a möbius
0:53:28loop and if you're reading this on an
0:53:30iPad you're in hell yeah because because
0:53:34auto-rotate is your worst enemy
0:53:36oh yeah but what it's designed for it to
0:53:38be in a comic book when I got to that
0:53:41point I did actually have to put the
0:53:44ipad down and direct an expletive and
0:53:48Ally take a little long
0:53:49korean shake your fist Adele and more
0:53:51wherever here take a left take a walk
0:53:53around the ipad so you can actually see
0:53:55everything i want to mention that the
0:53:57science hero thing which is in this end
0:53:59and in tom strong is a i believe i was
0:54:03just talking on
0:54:04I walk today with with with my family
0:54:07about we were talking about superheroes
0:54:09and things like that
0:54:10I didn't start it but I finished it
0:54:12uh-huh about the idea of it superhero
0:54:14itself is a trademark co-owned by DC
0:54:17Comics Marvel Comics and and and I
0:54:20realized later that this is why Alan
0:54:22Moore has played up the concept of
0:54:24science hero in these comics because
0:54:26that's actually his commentary on the
0:54:29fact that superhero is owned as a
0:54:32concept and I thought that was hilarious
0:54:34actually
0:54:36Wow because he's a bitter bitter man so
0:54:38so bitter who I had what better is
0:54:40awesome and you know I obviously enjoy
0:54:42better men but I don't know what you're
0:54:50talking about that the the take i took
0:54:54from that as well is since the a lot of
0:54:57this talks about instinct and primordial
0:54:59flow and cosmic rhythms and so on and so
0:55:02forth is i also had a kind of suddenly
0:55:05slip it goes back to his I hate
0:55:06technological progress I think he's not
0:55:08a really big fan of scientific culture
0:55:12as it emerged in popular culture over
0:55:15the last 60 to 70 years like I think the
0:55:18space race is kind of the worst thing
0:55:19that's ever happened to him personally
0:55:20because what because it legitimized
0:55:24science as a way to to learn about
0:55:26creation and introduce ideas of quantify
0:55:29ability and verifying and you have to
0:55:32reproduce results and this is how we
0:55:34know things is because they are
0:55:35immutable and that that is almost
0:55:38counter to this whole you walk pads and
0:55:40see women having things to do it snakes
0:55:41in the sky and that's how you know
0:55:42you're on the the path to truth and
0:55:44freedom is so for me
0:55:46science heroes is also his way of saying
0:55:47well I hate the deplorable superhero
0:55:50culture of mainstream comics right
0:55:52science is not done anything great for
0:55:53culture too horrible taste that tastes
0:55:55horrible together often get is his a
0:55:58wikipedia biography made me laugh out
0:56:00loud because it describes him as an
0:56:02occultist ceremonial magician and
0:56:06anarchist it's like yep that's that's
0:56:09you can tell you that from the beard
0:56:11really yeah well I got a cultist
0:56:14ceremonial magician i was saying that
0:56:16this should turn into a showtime
0:56:18TV series and and I realize it will not
0:56:20happen because i would but it might
0:56:21break everybody's TVs know what I was
0:56:24thinking is personal a lot more like I
0:56:25don't need the money and I thought what
0:56:27they do is they would probably strip the
0:56:28cult it would be this woman gets really
0:56:30possessed by hot women entities and she
0:56:33goes often has adventures and at the end
0:56:35she meets an FBI guy and settles down
0:56:36like they would totally date and the
0:56:39meantime it's an example is an excuse
0:56:41for women to get into like scanty chain
0:56:43mail and run around and I thought oh man
0:56:46I i need to stop reading for that tap
0:56:47and it is why I want more is better
0:56:50yeah exactly because you know you
0:56:52there's and and I thought well maybe the
0:56:53religious things kind of off-putting
0:56:54thing because in u.s. culture were
0:56:57really generally very uncomfortable with
0:57:00with any sort of with the idea that
0:57:01people who believe things that are in
0:57:03judeo-christian have have valid rights
0:57:05and their beliefs might actually be
0:57:07worth considering
0:57:08that's not really an idea that we're
0:57:09comfortable with so having an entire
0:57:11series or attractive will explain the
0:57:13Kabbalah g it might be off-putting and I
0:57:17thought know they would probably just
0:57:18eliminate that altogether and go
0:57:19straight to and then she and this is she
0:57:22and the 54 guys take on you know don't
0:57:24you
0:57:25the y2k y2k technology because we see
0:57:27them and then they permeate takes on the
0:57:30crazy mayor and then promethea goes on a
0:57:32walkabout to help a lady find her dead
0:57:34husband and it would just be like that
0:57:36and there might be a hint of
0:57:38spirituality to keep people you know to
0:57:40keep the fan people no no really it's
0:57:41gonna happen in minute now but it would
0:57:43it would basically be we have attractive
0:57:45women running around and losing their
0:57:47clothes every opportunity which would
0:57:50actually be the type of series that
0:57:51promethea would send up in flames as
0:57:53proof of a decadent spiritually dead
0:57:55Western culture that needs to be brought
0:57:57meant let me take a break to tell you
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1:00:16start here go anywhere you know you know
1:00:19it's interesting that you bring up the
1:00:21whole attractive women explain the
1:00:22Kabbalah to you because I I feel a
1:00:24little bit like that's what this was
1:00:26ya know we've got this we've got this
1:00:28worldview that that Alan Moore may or
1:00:31may not actually hold but it certainly
1:00:33seems like he does and i think he it
1:00:35seems to me like it's almost
1:00:36proselytizing he's trying to sort of
1:00:38sneak it in via comic book for people
1:00:41who might not otherwise be be here would
1:00:44be associated with these kinds i don't
1:00:46think he's sneaking yeah exactly it's
1:00:48not something people's minds and this is
1:00:51this is why I didn't like it because I
1:00:53prefer the straightforward approach and
1:00:55like i said i've already have already
1:00:57been through this this this crash course
1:00:59here like I know this is what will give
1:01:01you it will give you a free ride from
1:01:03the airport but along the way you're
1:01:06going to have to hear about our
1:01:07timeshare and episode or issue 12 is
1:01:10sort of like the the lecture you have to
1:01:11sit through to get the free thing for
1:01:13the timeshare it's like okay I i know
1:01:15you bought into this really interesting
1:01:17story
1:01:17ok let me tell you about my worldview
1:01:18universe is created it looks like that
1:01:21one issue in from Hell where he just
1:01:22tore London and say here's all the
1:01:24Masonic architecture you know what
1:01:27Legion there's actually done every
1:01:28camper meeting now that you mention it
1:01:30that bugs me because it pops up a lot
1:01:32and trades 2 and 3 which is Randy old
1:01:35men will take young women in hand and
1:01:36explain to them how the world works and
1:01:38it's it's a little problem that fit her
1:01:41where you're like okay she's supposed to
1:01:43be in a living avatar imagination then
1:01:46why does she need so much help from old
1:01:49men who will lead her while they explain
1:01:51how how the Tarot works like what was
1:01:53going on with that what what what are
1:01:55you working out buddy
1:01:57it's you know it's aight i think it
1:02:01feels kind of icky to me so and and that
1:02:03just might be me being being
1:02:05hypersensitive but I am I found it I
1:02:08found it pretty striking that you have
1:02:09like a few issues where it's like Hello
1:02:10promethea here is Margaret explaining
1:02:12things to you here's
1:02:13I'll explain things to you here's you
1:02:15know what Oh what's your name the the
1:02:17one who goes crazy and book three clear
1:02:20she's great here's grace being typically
1:02:22Gracie and um and you have that years
1:02:26ago this is great because they have this
1:02:27community pool of knowledge and they
1:02:28each have different specialties and then
1:02:30it turns into and now it's time for you
1:02:32to have sex with an odious old man
1:02:33position oh yeah that was so creepy and
1:02:35oh and oh yeah well my final statement
1:02:41on this comic is yes it's creepy
1:02:44yes it doesn't always work yes it's but
1:02:47there are worse things to read than a
1:02:49gorgeous comic book that's an ambitious
1:02:51failure written by a genius
1:02:54even if he is a complete lunatic that's
1:02:55pretty fair i agree completely with that
1:02:57Monty I i agree i am glad to have read
1:03:00it i will read it to the end and it is
1:03:04bizarre and its kind of brilliantly
1:03:07bazaar in that way like I would never
1:03:09put this it as a favorite comic of mine
1:03:11ever but um I i have fascinated by it
1:03:15yeah exactly I'm actually okay with the
1:03:18the sex with the creepy old man part I
1:03:20appreciated that simply because i really
1:03:23liked the idea that at least in this
1:03:25case that sex is going beyond the
1:03:28physical representation of a person now
1:03:31maybe it would have been nicer if it was
1:03:33a young hot guy in and then old wrinkly
1:03:36lady or something like that but to me
1:03:38the part that stood out and was
1:03:39important was the fact that that we are
1:03:42not what we look like there's there's
1:03:43more to us on the inside so I like that
1:03:45okay it just I don't know I mean some of
1:03:48the imagery is soaked just like super
1:03:49creepy because I because I appreciate
1:03:52that i do I didn't I was so glad he
1:03:54didn't put on a glamour i like that they
1:03:56they put that off in our face because
1:03:58it's really all that's just nonsense
1:03:59anyway it's just everything's in the end
1:04:03it's still a transaction but anyway yeah
1:04:04probably
1:04:05although you know that wasn't a wrinkly
1:04:07old lady in a really hot young man sex
1:04:09right exact that's another comic that is
1:04:11not has not adopted
1:04:13well I don't know why almost ready those
1:04:15comics i just want to emphasize how
1:04:20awesome the art is by JH williams there
1:04:23it in beautiful are the great color
1:04:25great letter layout you have the layout
1:04:29so much attention is given to the page
1:04:30layout
1:04:31oh my god and the varying styles that
1:04:34mean this guy this guy has no house
1:04:37style.the the digital photography and
1:04:40some spot oh yeah there's others i
1:04:42didn't even mention there's a few many
1:04:44issue basic land and it just works and
1:04:46it works for you know I and i love how
1:04:49the different formations have very
1:04:51distinct body types as opposed to it's
1:04:53just five women who are you know typical
1:04:55comic babysits and we're not getting
1:04:57Todd client is a great letter and he
1:04:59does great work in this just fantastic
1:05:01lettering top clients unspoken hero
1:05:03because it's such a text heavy comic
1:05:05that if you didn't have all of the
1:05:08subtle differences it would be very
1:05:09difficult figure out who's who on his
1:05:11lettering was one of the reasons i was
1:05:13able to get as far into the book and so
1:05:15I would yeah that's good yeah he's the
1:05:17guy who lettered Sandman and then the
1:05:20fact that I recognized his lettering
1:05:22stone and looks so familiar helped me
1:05:25get past the okay this isn't just a
1:05:27superhero comic there's some weird stuff
1:05:29going on here
1:05:30don't think don't think Fantastic Four
1:05:33think sandman you'll get through this
1:05:35you'll be okay Todd clients blog had
1:05:38recently like an 808 chapter incredibly
1:05:43detailed essay on the evolution of
1:05:45computerized lettering and comic books
1:05:47and how the good letterers now have
1:05:50their own fonts with 12 different
1:05:52exclamation points because they have to
1:05:54adjust the spacing manually all the time
1:05:57uh-huh fascinating to me I want to thank
1:06:00everybody for sticking out and slogging
1:06:01through this book and engaging with it
1:06:03is rigorously as you did as opposed to
1:06:05making this podcast an hour of know Lisa
1:06:09Hayes know who about fascinating
1:06:13fascinating to read some of this and and
1:06:16yeah and so I I in some ways i would say
1:06:19this is the kind of thing that many of
1:06:21us wouldn't have read if it weren't
1:06:22assigned to us whether it's in a
1:06:24classroom for a podcast so thank you for
1:06:26the assignment because i think it was i
1:06:28was fascinated 22 to dig into it i never
1:06:31would have otherwise I think thanks mrs.
1:06:34memorized
1:06:35oh yeah and our essays are due next
1:06:39tuesday eight pages double-spaced have
1:06:42him in Lisa's box by 5pm and but you get
1:06:47an F unless you write it in multiple
1:06:49colors and upside down to expect to be
1:06:52able to read it right to left and left
1:06:55to right
1:06:56oh no my essays in the form of a mobius
1:06:59strip is that going to be an awesome big
1:07:01help
1:07:01no it's create different boxes start
1:07:04reciting but i'm writing to sa is one on
1:07:07the top half of each page 1 of the
1:07:08bottom half of each page and the
1:07:09counterpoint each other so enjoy that I
1:07:12turned my essay into an anagram it's
1:07:14your job to unscramble yeah before so
1:07:20before we go I wanted to I want to go
1:07:22around just in case somebody has been
1:07:24has been reading some other kind of
1:07:26comic book related thing that they would
1:07:28like to mention i like it's sort of like
1:07:30our book clubs what are we reading i
1:07:31don't know if you guys have prepared
1:07:33anything
1:07:33Oh or but but you know if you if you
1:07:36aren't don't feel bad if you are then
1:07:39then share with us Lisa something that
1:07:42you've been reading that you would like
1:07:43to share with the group
1:07:44I'm eye-to-eye like i said i have been
1:07:46going back through and rereading the
1:07:47mike grell run on green arrow but he did
1:07:50back in the late eighties uh if you like
1:07:54if you liked this show arrow I think you
1:07:55should read this because the whole point
1:07:57of the grip my grill run was they drop
1:07:59the key and black Canary drop the code
1:08:01names they have no superpowers
1:08:02whatsoever
1:08:03they're basically vigilantes living and
1:08:05working out of seattle and the artist so
1:08:08ladies and it's so much fun and I have
1:08:11been working my way through pox romana
1:08:13which is what would happen if the
1:08:16Catholic Church one time traveling to
1:08:17try two inch ensure a permanent
1:08:19religious One World Order and it's a
1:08:22great idea and there's a lot of great
1:08:23things in the execution the typeface is
1:08:26driving me crazy so that's its but
1:08:28that's been slow going and for fun i
1:08:31also read Kelly sue deconnick some first
1:08:33trade for Captain Marvel which i loved
1:08:36it was so much fun
1:08:38it's so funny i can't wait for that
1:08:40movie to come out and we talked about on
1:08:43our walk today yeah we had to explain
1:08:45the difference between ms marvel and
1:08:47after Marvel no ya didn't explain that
1:08:50to people and they forget immediately
1:08:52and then Rogan monkey bridge you don't
1:08:54even be just anyway
1:08:55ya know the captain marvel but to be
1:08:57honest the captain marvel book reads
1:08:58like the guardians of the galaxy felt
1:09:00when I was watching the movie this
1:09:01summer it's it's it's that funny and has
1:09:03that that vein of soul running through
1:09:05it and i highly recommend it to anybody
1:09:07who was just looking for a romp and for
1:09:10anybody who's watching the series arrow
1:09:11and wants to nerd out a little bit more
1:09:13read the ground stuff or or if anybody
1:09:15was like my that shot looks like an
1:09:16eagle painting come to life like read
1:09:18the girl stuff that's a lot of fun
1:09:20tony i have been reading a bunch of
1:09:23stuff scalped and help laser and things
1:09:27like that but the new series that i
1:09:28recently discovered that i'm really
1:09:30enjoying and I feel like pretty rarely
1:09:33pick up new series and just you know
1:09:34slaving away on one's i've been reading
1:09:35forever but the wicked and the define
1:09:38have you guys heard about that or anyone
1:09:39else reading that i have it on my
1:09:40wishlist on amazon so what I was really
1:09:43impressive the weekend the divine the
1:09:45premise is that there are there's a
1:09:48pantheon of gods who show up every 90
1:09:51years or so and i have godlike powers
1:09:54but are fated to die within limits two
1:09:56years and so basically kind of live as
1:09:58rock stars for those two years and
1:09:59complicated things happen to them and it
1:10:03was highly recommended to me by somebody
1:10:05who only ever recommends good things and
1:10:07I read the premise was like having i
1:10:08read that vertigo comics like four times
1:10:10already but and then I got it and I was
1:10:12I was kind of blown away so i strongly
1:10:15recommend it is already too and then
1:10:17we'll find out which of us is right
1:10:19also i love scalp so yes a plus+ for
1:10:22reading that this was my favorite series
1:10:24the last 10 years
1:10:25all right Monty anything you're reading
1:10:27you want to plug here i think the last
1:10:29live comic book I read was death of
1:10:31wolverine number three and you can tell
1:10:34already that I was by the fact i haven't
1:10:35gotten to the number four we actually
1:10:37dies he dies he is he okay now
1:10:39no he's still day is good yeah he's got
1:10:43a good year or so of death coming
1:10:45people still buy comic books after will
1:10:46realize i just i dunno we don't know yet
1:10:49Marvel farm after worry doc yes who's
1:10:51who's in all the comic books that
1:10:53spider-man and deadpool mostly know
1:10:55there's a new Marvel comic that's like
1:10:57death of wolverine after
1:10:59so they just keep playing it out now
1:11:01that's so that's just people undergoing
1:11:02we're going to know that Wolverines not
1:11:04yeah i remember Wolverine have over it
1:11:06was great
1:11:07flashbacks when he was alive Wolverine
1:11:09yeah I have really enjoyed the adventure
1:11:12time comic book written by Ryan North
1:11:15who does the daily dinosaur comics on
1:11:17the web
1:11:18although he's not going to be writing it
1:11:20anymore so i'm not sure where that's
1:11:21going and I've been trying to get into
1:11:24Doom Patrol nonsense but I you know your
1:11:28butt first trade paperback have not said
1:11:30so I'm hitting the second one already in
1:11:33the grant morrison to control
1:11:34yeah yeah oh yeah oh yeah chip anything
1:11:39any other than for media any comics
1:11:42you've been reading lately and liking um
1:11:44I have been taking advantage of some of
1:11:46the holiday sales that comiXology was
1:11:48doing and I i have discovered mark
1:11:52waid's daredevil oh yeah that's good
1:11:55that's really that's really good that's
1:11:58really good and I i am not terribly
1:12:01interested in wolverine the character so
1:12:03i have not been reading the death of
1:12:06Wolverine but the stuff that paul
1:12:07cornell wrote leading up to that right
1:12:10the two years of did like any for issues
1:12:13I think of wolverine volume
1:12:14yes five and six or whatever it is
1:12:16fantastic and me made me care about the
1:12:20character only only and only in that
1:12:23writers hands not enough to follow it
1:12:25with a to a different writer but I i
1:12:29highly recommend it and it stands on its
1:12:32own without any of the event stuff that
1:12:34follows nice Erica you read many comics
1:12:38I don't actually know this about you or
1:12:40was promethea big one for you lately but
1:12:43it was lately i had my comics phase that
1:12:45will actually haven't read a whole lot
1:12:47of anything in the past few years but i
1:12:49have done a little bit of rereading
1:12:50every read a few my old help lasers
1:12:52recently but actually I we just
1:12:55rearranged our podcast studio / lego
1:12:58room where some of my comic books also
1:13:00resided and i ran across a few that
1:13:03haven't started reading yet but it'sit's
1:13:05next up on my list to do
1:13:07it's a very very short truncated series
1:13:09called rapid as EDD which
1:13:12sadly crushingly was only three issues
1:13:14long because it was published by
1:13:16cross-gen and then they went out of
1:13:17business and it was it was kind of aimed
1:13:20aimed at children and it was a story of
1:13:22a magical land that a young sort of
1:13:25grumpy teenage girl had had read these
1:13:27books very wizard of oz like but then of
1:13:30course she discovers that it's actually
1:13:32a real place and she has to go there and
1:13:34rescuing her little brother and it is it
1:13:36a fantastically realized false the world
1:13:40and it really cute characters and it was
1:13:44just a I'm a sucker for anything that's
1:13:46remotely like The Wizard of Oz so you
1:13:49know labyrinth is made one of my
1:13:50favorite movies this this is right up my
1:13:52alley and was really well done and I was
1:13:54just so heartbroken when it gotta oh we
1:13:57got cut short so I that I just brought
1:14:00up the wikipedia page and apparently
1:14:01they made some disney bought the rights
1:14:03and they made some children's books out
1:14:04of it so i may have to pick those up
1:14:06just to see where the story goes but
1:14:07yeah so i will be reading a peasant and
1:14:10I recommend it for anybody who is into
1:14:12that sort of thing but be ready to have
1:14:14your heart broken because it doesn't
1:14:15keep going right and I guess that leaves
1:14:18me i wanted to mention a couple of
1:14:20things I've been reading old x-men
1:14:23issues in Marvel unlimited which is
1:14:26fascinating because my memory of x-men
1:14:28series actually have been reading the
1:14:29x-men after from when I stopped reading
1:14:32the x-men in the mid-eighties and now
1:14:35you remember why you stopped i am
1:14:37reminded of that but I I'm also
1:14:39fascinated by the fact that now i have
1:14:41200 issues or whatever just sitting
1:14:43there that I could just flip through
1:14:44with no charge i am reminded that my
1:14:47childhood crush on Kitty Pryde would not
1:14:49have survived and I kept reading for
1:14:51another two years because they do
1:14:54something horribly eighties things to
1:14:56her
1:14:56any idea where you would not be nearly
1:14:58as 1/2 go on a little longer but instead
1:15:02she was frozen in 1983 or whatever when
1:15:04they they didn't put her in the fishnets
1:15:07so that was ok she was adorable 19 yeah
1:15:10she really was so anyway I'm fascinated
1:15:11by that i'm also reminded that one of
1:15:13the problems and maybe I'm hoping we
1:15:15actually will do this in an episode 1
1:15:17the problems I have with the x-men one
1:15:18of the things that I think makes it hard
1:15:20to talk about them is that it is in the
1:15:22chris claremont era they really what it
1:15:24was like a soap opera and so it's
1:15:25actually very hard
1:15:26to hold onto the storylines there are
1:15:28these storylines you can point to but
1:15:29when you actually go back to the issues
1:15:31you realize they're all mixed up and
1:15:33thread it in with all this other stuff
1:15:34and it's actually very hard to get ahold
1:15:36on something and say this is an x-men
1:15:38story because it all ends up played
1:15:41across you know the x-men and the new
1:15:43mutants and this miniseries in that mini
1:15:46series and they're all kind of
1:15:47interleaved with other storylines that
1:15:49are also happening and becomes very hard
1:15:51and falls apart when you love that it's
1:15:54just marvel comics in general at the
1:15:56time yeah like this is a really good
1:15:58story
1:15:58Thor turns into a frog ok the beyonders
1:16:02also in this issue yeah like I just went
1:16:04through secret war sincere words too and
1:16:05the x-men like man this is rough stuff
1:16:08this is like like literally there's like
1:16:09oh and now we're at Central Park and
1:16:11we're gonna go through this gateway and
1:16:13then the next issue well we're back from
1:16:14The Secret Wars like a man i remember
1:16:16that that was not good and yet that's
1:16:18where like spider-man is cool black out
1:16:21costumes from so
1:16:23oh yeah but it's just fascinating like I
1:16:25want to talk about like the brood war at
1:16:27issues of x-men and they're great but
1:16:29when you try to pick out exactly what
1:16:30they are you kinda can't because they're
1:16:33all intertwined with all this other
1:16:34stuff anyway it's been fascinating
1:16:36I'm feature requests from Marvel
1:16:39unlimited i really love them to have
1:16:40some sort of chronological reading list
1:16:42for some of this stuff because I would
1:16:43really like to be able to read an x-men
1:16:46issue and then just go to the New
1:16:47Mutants issue and then go back to the
1:16:48x-men issue because instead I have to
1:16:50kind of do that myself but anyway that's
1:16:52been fascinating
1:16:53it's it's like I've returned the bag
1:16:57went back in time to where I abandoned
1:16:59all those comics and now picking them up
1:17:01that's fascinating I wanted to also
1:17:04mention that i'm reading the spider
1:17:06verse story an amazing spider-man I I
1:17:08mention this because it's an as a an
1:17:10event it's okay cuz it's pretty
1:17:12self-contained their spin-off issues but
1:17:14the main story is in amazing spider-man
1:17:16the thing that I really like is that
1:17:17it's integrated l you know not only some
1:17:19new alternate universe spider-man
1:17:22characters but also every spider-man
1:17:25character from every medium ever and
1:17:28there is a particular scene in I
1:17:30think'll one of the issues from last
1:17:32month where the actual cartoon
1:17:35characters from spider-man and his
1:17:37amazing friends
1:17:38spider-man
1:17:39Firestar and Iceman in there cool new
1:17:42york apartment pad / superhero team
1:17:44headquarters are brutally murdered and I
1:17:49i can hardly lion I can't believe they
1:17:51did it but they did it and it is kind of
1:17:54hilarious also there's there's a scene
1:17:56where they wear it where they go to the
1:17:58they go to the date Daily Bugle of jonah
1:18:01Jameson from the 1967 animated
1:18:03spider-man series which is pretty
1:18:05amazing so it blew my mind as a longtime
1:18:07spider-man fan to see all that stuff in
1:18:09spite of verse i believe that they
1:18:11recently dropped in the nineteen
1:18:13seventies Japanese spider-man with the
1:18:16giant robot the giant robot yeah he
1:18:17factors into its it's kind of amazing
1:18:19and it is a love letter to all the
1:18:21variants of spider-man over the years
1:18:22and I want to throw out there's a new
1:18:24Star Wars comic that's coming that's
1:18:25apparently going to be like the biggest
1:18:27selling comic in the last 20 years
1:18:29I'm excited about that because i want to
1:18:31see if they will also reveal how Darth
1:18:33Vader drinks coffee using the Force to
1:18:35be original
1:18:36I'm excited about that because
1:18:37humblebundle just sold a whole bunch of
1:18:39old Star Wars comments so i can really
1:18:42get into that when i get around to
1:18:43classic old Star Wars comics anyway
1:18:46all right I think we've reached the end
1:18:48yeah comics
1:18:49whoa Eleanor eae thank you thank you for
1:18:53your service alan moore you make us feel
1:18:55smart and adore stupid sometimes
1:19:00simultaneously em the bottom part I felt
1:19:03really smart and the top part I felt
1:19:05really dumb
1:19:06it's all happening at once on a page
1:19:08with letters and color all creepy in the
1:19:10middle
1:19:11oh yeah that's the album or sandwich
1:19:13right there right at you people don't
1:19:17use well yeah Muno alright i'd like to
1:19:20thank my gas for being here this was
1:19:22amusing fun good conversations always
1:19:25and yeah you should you should check out
1:19:27if you haven't check out promethea and
1:19:28you your mind will be blown
1:19:30we are not responsible for that if your
1:19:33mind is blown
1:19:34you're going to take care of that
1:19:35yourself Tony similar thank you for
1:19:37being here
1:19:38comics they're not just for kids don't
1:19:40let your kids read this letter
1:19:41yeah don't know my kids don't read these
1:19:44comics Erica inside thank you thank you
1:19:48this this may have sort of rekindled my
1:19:50my comics reading
1:19:52yeah this might be a comics Renaissance
1:19:54for me to read other areas done better
1:19:56comics Monty actually thank you i
1:19:59actually remembered Prometheus being
1:20:01crazier than this 10 knots to me at the
1:20:05time now it's just you know mostly 15
1:20:07years later it's just kind of crazy not
1:20:10totally nuts
1:20:11yeah yeah chips under thank you again
1:20:13for being on an episode that had nothing
1:20:15to do with Doctor Who Babylon 5 so good
1:20:17job thank you good to have you you're
1:20:20spreading out you're branching out
1:20:21I'm growing yeah i'm growing like a oh
1:20:24no no no no capital of redmond oh no and
1:20:28Lisa Schmeisser you did this I did this
1:20:34to you although hatch will hatch a plot
1:20:36for the next comic book club and what
1:20:38we're going to read for that I don't
1:20:40look forward to
1:20:41ya know that the woman comic lot now
1:20:43that we're at the very end point comma
1:20:44club is we would like to find things
1:20:46that are relatively readily available
1:20:49don't require a lot of reading around
1:20:50the edges you should be able to read a
1:20:52trade or two and get something out of it
1:20:55which I really believe comics that's
1:20:56sort of what i was getting at when i was
1:20:57talking about the x-men is you know you
1:21:00should really have to read like a
1:21:01hundred comics order to appreciate the
1:21:03these four issues either should be you
1:21:06know some stuff that's more accessible
1:21:08that people can pick up a couple of
1:21:10it's getting late we can talk about
1:21:12something that's the plan 2015 to do
1:21:15some more that the competition well
1:21:18thanks to everybody out there for
1:21:19sticking with us
1:21:20I from the comic little time and we will
1:21:23see with another episode be comfortable
1:21:35did anyone read that text page that's
1:21:42right at the beginning of promethea yes
1:21:44Wow congratulations you win at the
1:21:48bottom it tells you you don't have to
1:21:50read any of the issues and you can just
1:21:52go on the podcast so if you read to that
1:21:54point
1:21:55PS she's a sex goddess okay goodnight
1:21:57everybody loved Alan door