The Talk Show

69: Peter`s Going To Want His Money Back

 

  so it's theirs part to this is the experimental episode of the talk show [TS]

  we're recording 48 hours straight no break in it and see what happens to that [TS]

  the flow of this plan is one of their some really big news next week that's [TS]

  possible and we can try to guess what it was and pretend like it happened and [TS]

  just talk about it as if it had really happened so we got that that X Mac [TS]

  finally be shocking I don't think there's any room for them anymore [TS]

  was there ever really there was when the Mac Pro was huge [TS]

  physically huge like expects a side just there was a physical I don't even know [TS]

  if it makes any marketing sense and I don't even know if it makes any [TS]

  engineering cents a day could have put something in to it you know they [TS]

  couldn't have it into a Mac Mini but you know I think that there was at least [TS]

  felt like maybe there was room for a mid sized model with mid-range specks in a [TS]

  way that like an iMac that's what everybody wants they want the iMac [TS]

  without the display ran with expansion slots and everything else basically [TS]

  basically they want they would they want the iMac in regular mid-tower case with [TS]

  with a couple of GPU slots that people can put big game and GPUs with 300 bucks [TS]

  and that's that's of course Apple will never make an if if there was any hope [TS]

  before the new Mac Pro came out that certainly shattered it totally you guys [TS]

  had some good episodes of ATP talking about the Mac Pro yeah we talked about a [TS]

  way too much and I don't even have my mind still waiting to be shipped its it [TS]

  hasn't even shipped and you ordered like day one right like well not really I i [TS]

  order through the business rep at the store was within a day's well sort of [TS]

  it was my word of the day after they became available but then I got cold [TS]

  feet on a couple of my very expensive options and chickened out and change the [TS]

  order like two weeks and are three weeks and so I can I i imagine that that reset [TS]

  my position in the queue so I now I'm getting a slower one later I'm not sure [TS]

  was the best idea now but it's a lot cheaper I suspect there are a lot of [TS]

  listeners of the show wasn't a TPO sonar regurgitate the whole time and if you [TS]

  don't and you have never listened to the accidental tech podcast with Marco and [TS]

  john Kasay list that's right that's that was the best just joke was that was the [TS]

  best of the three of us to forget temporarily I didn't but I had to make [TS]

  the joke great show really good show and comes out on a regular basis as opposed [TS]

  to an irregular basis like this one when you guys record we record every [TS]

  Wednesday night and then we really so I added Thursday morning pass off to Casey [TS]

  for final edited for finally no catching things I do if I let it go to the movies [TS]

  or Friday morning and you guys broadcast live we do then and I guess used to do [TS]

  that if we did that for most of the run of the old talk show or if it was a [TS]

  stretch of it but I guess it was a big stretch of river do live and I don't [TS]

  think that's worth it [TS]

  it depends on the kind of show you do if it's like if it's like an interview show [TS]

  like the old pipeline and my command space now if it's like that kind of show [TS]

  I don't think it really adds anything but if it's if it's a kind of show like [TS]

  what we do we're just three guys bullshit about tech [TS]

  I think your show you could probably do it to it really adds something where it [TS]

  adds that the number of people who listen is not big you know our show gets [TS]

  a usually about two hundred and seventy-five listeners to the live [TS]

  stream which as a percentage of our whole audience is really pretty small [TS]

  but those are like two hundred and seventy five of the most devoted fans [TS]

  you know those those people are like they'd love the show so much to listen [TS]

  to a live and they've used to provide really good feedback live and so if [TS]

  we're like kind of fumbling over fact or URL something though pasted into [TS]

  give it to us it's like the best Siri because it's really smart people who [TS]

  exactly who completely understand the words coming out of your mouth and [TS]

  exactly and our domain experts in the things that you're talking about just [TS]

  the only thing is with live listening is that it you can take it too far which is [TS]

  like it it's also a distraction for the hosts like I it's often hard for me to [TS]

  not pay too much attention to the chat room and also it changes the nature of [TS]

  the show changes the way it feels to do the show because it's like there's [TS]

  there's an immediate immediate audience there and overall I think it's a net win [TS]

  for the kind of show we do because you know if if we start digging ourselves a [TS]

  little hole where we're totally wrong off days about something you get stopped [TS]

  it gets stopped you know very quickly as opposed to you know if you and I [TS]

  starting ourselves to a whole now we are leaving an 0 for two weeks and then it [TS]

  could be WAY worse with the chair of this year's fair night [TS]

  you know the one then I deeply miss about the chat with the talk show was [TS]

  episode titles yeah that's that's a given to like that's one less thing you [TS]

  have to try to keep track of your head along the way as if you're trying to [TS]

  pick three or four words that were uttered by one of the people on the show [TS]

  that makes for a funny and apt episode title the live together as I stop on [TS]

  this and I forget everything we said you have to go back and hope you think of a [TS]

  good title whereas with the live one we never once didn't get a a grade title [TS]

  added that it was hard to pick one because it'd be like three or four [TS]

  really good ones right there be like 70 suggestions and you know 410 decent ones [TS]

  and a handful really good ones and it was great and yeah that's it that's all [TS]

  we have still their shows great Sunday after a nap how I do this because it's I [TS]

  don't do anything difficult it's just complicated it's you know the way you [TS]

  set it up it's like this pile of tools it doesn't it doesn't [TS]

  generous sized well and so I'm not at all no well to encapsulate the Mac Pro [TS]

  discussion and and you know it really is it's it's like the the origins of the [TS]

  show right it was you guys wondering whether Apple's even gonna do another [TS]

  Mac Pro two ago it wasn't necessarily the origin of the show it was just [TS]

  always the running joke of the show it was it was our logo since the beginning [TS]

  to show and I had to make a logo is like you know there was a logo like Mac Pro [TS]

  with the new badge on it kind of a joke with the fake update we got in 2012 and [TS]

  you know it was it was always ready because Casey was on a Mac program that [TS]

  mean John Siracusa are and have been for a long time and so it was always a thing [TS]

  like when are they going to do a new Mac Pro and then once once they announced it [TS]

  was a little what's going to be like and what's it gonna cost and [TS]

  what are the options gonna be an added it out the car how does it perform is it [TS]

  worth it what you know is it still right for us and so there's a whole vast ocean [TS]

  of possible discussion that nobody except me and John Siracusa care about [TS]

  people care and it's such a good it's a perfect mix it's a perfect example of [TS]

  how the three-way mix of the show works where you and John have both into the [TS]

  Mac Pro and care about it deeply but for very different reasons right and Casey [TS]

  as someone who doesn't have one injures lives off I think two MacBooks right [TS]

  he's got like maybe this is one is a MacBook guys going to MacBook Pro [TS]

  MacBook Pro at home in her home on a work day and night speaks to clearly [TS]

  speaks to the masses in even the masses of people who listen to our show I'm [TS]

  sure there's no doubt in my mind that most people listen to our show their [TS]

  main mechanism as a MacBook of some sort if not an errant approach definitely I [TS]

  mean just look at the numbers that they sell it so it's a good Mex but I think [TS]

  you know the gist of your multi-episode long discussion knows that John is going [TS]

  to hold off I think so he at least has so far he hasn't ordered it is one of [TS]

  the main things I mean it's hard to summarize the John Syracuse argument but [TS]

  one of the main things though is that he's always been into gaming serious [TS]

  gaming and you know his ideal Mac Pro would have either have to be [TS]

  configurable with gaming GPUs or somehow you be able to you know as an expert [TS]

  user add them on [TS]

  and it doesn't that it comes with these pro GPUs that are optimized for the [TS]

  night professional video and design type stuff which is very different [TS]

  right gaming GPUs and I and the high end ones do have decent gaming performance [TS]

  but not only is it not cutting edge but you pay $1,000 for it to be decent and [TS]

  not cutting edge right you paid enormous surtax if your interest is in the gaming [TS]

  you're paying for something that you're not getting any use out of many one way [TS]

  and i'm just paraphrasing circus here so I'm gonna budget because he's impossible [TS]

  to paraphrase too but with gaming you just want the frame rate and you want to [TS]

  be able to handle lots of pixels it once and do these things and if there's no [TS]

  minor things that are imperfect in a render its 160th Ave a second if you're [TS]

  going 60 frames per second [TS]

  whereas if your rendering out a video you don't want any imperfections [TS]

  anywhere it's in your optimizing for a different case yes I mean and a whole [TS]

  lot of times the the pro GPUs [TS]

  adding almost all the time the pro GPUs are really almost the same or identical [TS]

  hardware as the gaming GPUs but with very very different drivers ran very [TS]

  different software in LA Times will have substantially more RAM maybe or faster [TS]

  or something like that but it's it's the same usually based on the same hardware [TS]

  and you know it's it's like the Xeons you know with Intel's I get the base of [TS]

  the same harbors the consumer stuff but it's now with some modifications and you [TS]

  know possibly different platform optimized for a totally different [TS]

  completely purpose where's the pro ones are meant to that every frame is perfect [TS]

  and then do them as fast as possible and the gaming lines are do it as fast as [TS]

  possible and secondarily make them look as good as possible because if you're [TS]

  playing as shooter [TS]

  the last thing you want is a stutter between frames blown away whereas if [TS]

  your rendering out of movie the last thing you want is a frame in the movie [TS]

  that's right and in with the new Mac Pro it even weirder because there's two of [TS]

  these GPUs you have to order them the same and if you're in Windows they will [TS]

  they can work together to both render games and parallel but if you are if [TS]

  you're using Mac OS 10 one of those GPUs is basically always off unless you are [TS]

  doing OpenCL competition like it one of the GPUs does not control the screens [TS]

  and cannot control the screens at all which is weird so it's the new Mac Pro [TS]

  is a very lopsided machine it you know the old Mac Pro was as big on graceful [TS]

  generalist which is what PC towers always have been [TS]

  it was it's as my prose as big workstation with tons of slots on the [TS]

  hard drive bays different CPU options even though they were all they were all [TS]

  fairly expensive Xeon chips but still a bunch of NCP options much RAM slots just [TS]

  you could do a ton of stuff with us you could configure and all sorts of weird [TS]

  ways to be lopsided in whatever way you need it to be or it should be a decent [TS]

  generalist with with lots of future expansion of just you know hard-driving [TS]

  stuff you had all these options [TS]

  the new Mac Pro it comes pre-configured to be lopsided in one particular way [TS]

  because having tons of GPU power way more CPU power and and not even for [TS]

  gaming as you said it tons of GPU CPU power for computation and for [TS]

  professional type ax than anything else and three moderate moderate CPUs they're [TS]

  better than what you get an iMac at most things but not by a huge margin was [TS]

  doing super parallel things and get the very expensive very many course chips so [TS]

  it's it's this machine that used to solve a lot more roles for a lot more [TS]

  people [TS]

  now they've they've reduced that and they've they've made it more specialized [TS]

  it's less of a generalist now and so they've made it more specialized in a [TS]

  way that now fits me a little bit worse and fits John Siracusa lot worse the old [TS]

  wounded yeah I have to say I'm really you know i bug you offline about this [TS]

  that I'm need to buy a new computer aided by a new man and I was waiting for [TS]

  Mac Pros i've been waiting for red and that's a whole other discussion you guys [TS]

  have covered thoroughly is the winner desktop size displays 24 27 inch [TS]

  displays gonna go read and a Mac Pro the one it is now a new is not the answer or [TS]

  at least not yet and so why wait any longer I feel like the answer and i [TS]

  really became clear to me after listening to ATP is I should just buy a [TS]

  27 inch iMac because that way that's always put me off on the iMac is I don't [TS]

  want to just i dont wanna get rid of the display when I get rid of the computer [TS]

  I'd rather put money into it invest in the display that I keep four more years [TS]

  that I might keep the whole computer but I think it's just not worth worrying [TS]

  about this price wise because I think when Retina Display place for max come [TS]

  out there gonna be expensive enough that the cost of 27 inch iMac today is just [TS]

  not that significant probably and you know my theory is that is that for k is [TS]

  coming first and probably pretty soon probably this year too you know if they [TS]

  want to do it true 51 twenty-by-twenty 88 is dunno what is truly to X the [TS]

  current 27 inch size there's a lot of technological problems with that right [TS]

  now mostly relating to bandwidth limitations of things like a thunderbolt [TS]

  in various phases but for them to do for K [TS]

  everything's in place that for that right now that they could take a chip [TS]

  for Canon Rebel display today that works just fine in all the new MacBook Pros [TS]

  not the heirs but all the new MacBook Pros everything that's wonderful too [TS]

  all the MacBook Pros and all the new Mac Pros and that could do software scaling [TS]

  the way the retina MacBook Pros do software scaling up to bigger better [TS]

  resolution so all this is in place for that to happen today so that we can kind [TS]

  of see that's gonna happen anytime now you know I would expect an iMac update [TS]

  until this fall when the new Intel CPUs come out so I would say you know I like [TS]

  update this fall has a decent chance of going right now and anytime now there [TS]

  might be a Thunderbolt Display a standalone portable display that would [TS]

  be for k so I think however you look at this it's pretty clear that desktops [TS]

  going right now are going to happen soonish you know whether it's this year [TS]

  or next year that's when you talk about buying a computer especially you buying [TS]

  a home computer cause your current home computers what six years old [TS]

  yeah right so you know this is not a frequent purchases so looking at this [TS]

  from that point of view to end and you're kind of person you will care alot [TS]

  about revenue when Redknapp come down this time you will probably want it and [TS]

  so it's hard for me to say to you you should buy this new computer today when [TS]

  we are probably within a year of desktops going right now in some [TS]

  meaningful way to promise that I broke the cardinal rule of computing of by a [TS]

  computer which I used to follow pretty religiously which is when you need a new [TS]

  computer buy it and have take a little bit take like a three-month window of [TS]

  common sense in terms of being able to tell if there's a good chance that new [TS]

  ones might be coming in the next three months or so and maybe wait but no more [TS]

  than that [TS]

  and and and conversely if the one you're gonna buy is like three four months old [TS]

  you know it's going to be okay for a while and then just buy it in which case [TS]

  I would have bought a new probably about a 27 inch iMac like three years ago and [TS]

  I no reason I didn't then as I thought retina might be my enthusiasm for retina [TS]

  displays is such that I vastly I convinced myself that they were coming [TS]

  weeks sooner than they than they are especially once the iPhone 4 came out [TS]

  and which was the first written advice and I just immediately thought [TS]

  everything's gonna go redness and it's highly possible that my enthusiasm for [TS]

  it is causing me to make these predictions too aggressively you know [TS]

  and I'm not going to deny that that that is very much a possibility here that I [TS]

  could be way off on my time on as well this could be three years out on seeing [TS]

  that happen this year I've said this before I remember it was like 2006 or [TS]

  2007 is a while back and the WBC and had a session about resolution independent [TS]

  Mac development and has been for iOS even existed and they were like there is [TS]

  you know pushed him quite a bit [TS]

  the one year and they wanted you know that you could use a set of bitmaps you [TS]

  can use PDFs for the element and cable sasser I we just had lunch to read the [TS]

  max they're coming soon they're probably gonna be out by the end of summer we're [TS]

  so excited and cable of course you know the parent guys they made like their [TS]

  Absa retina ready they had like retina ready resources in their Mac apps like [TS]

  six years ago because cable and you know it was so excited about it and it just [TS]

  seemed like a Apple's tell us to do it and you know a lot of times and Apple [TS]

  tells developers to do something [TS]

  developers will be alright maybe get bit on the ass because the thing that they [TS]

  were pushing it for comes out oh yeah and could not have been more so yeah I i [TS]

  think if you if you want to keep your computer for more than a couple of years [TS]

  I shouldn't be an iMac that you buy today [TS]

  know whether it's an iMac that you abide this winter is coming winter or whether [TS]

  it's a Mac Pro the bi-state you plug in a fork a display to when those come out [TS]

  that's that's up to you that's that's very vague idea I think the better [TS]

  things to do in your shoes is just to wait to see how this plays out because [TS]

  you know it you're right the cardinal rule of computers used to be a jerk by [TS]

  when you need it because they're always there was about to get better but there [TS]

  are certain major leaps that kind of sucks to be on the wrong side of and so [TS]

  if you can foresee one of those major league service very obvious of one of [TS]

  the major leagues is gonna happen within the next year I would that's usually [TS]

  worth waiting for [TS]

  you know I feel like if I by the IMF i buy the iMac this month and retina IMAX [TS]

  or retina MacBook Pro Mac Pro Plus porque display goes right now comes out [TS]

  sometime later this year [TS]

  give it today could find somebody that i dont no setup for Jonas is a game [TS]

  machine or something very very well that's the thing to a mean one of the [TS]

  reasons why I ordered this new Mac Pro and why I ordered a fairly modest [TS]

  configuration of it why change the order is because I have that out too because [TS]

  my wife uses a Mac Pro she just tons of heavy photography work with these giant [TS]

  raw files that are cameras now shoot these days and so she is she's had a Mac [TS]

  Pro for three years now and so I know like if a really crazy update comes out [TS]

  in a year that that I really really want maybe it needed for maybe the CPUs [TS]

  actually did take a meaningful leap forward with the with the house while he [TS]

  pees when when those come out you know if there are some major new advance in a [TS]

  year in the Mac Pro Line I know I can give this one to my wife upgrade her [TS]

  what she wants any way of celebrating her and then give myself the new so I at [TS]

  least have that out so yeah that's possible but an iMac is a little hard to [TS]

  give away that easy to give away a laptop to like your fam [TS]

  you know your spouse's grandparents parents whatever it's a it's easy to get [TS]

  laptops desktops are are much more of an imposition on people and so it's it's [TS]

  harder so I don't know I start feel like you know if I get bit I get paid so you [TS]

  said when we were chatting about of them is as much of a pain in the asses the [TS]

  package up in cell shape like a MacBook like packaging [TS]

  sold it to somebody online what a pain in the ass that is the ship iMac oh yeah [TS]

  I mean it's it's terrible i I did that actually there is one of those sites [TS]

  that buys old stuff from you know whatever when you sponsor 505 I forget [TS]

  the name of it but I still at that because it was here that they sent me [TS]

  the box and everything was just so an even though like you know I know it's [TS]

  it's like selling a car to a dealer versus private sale like you can you can [TS]

  sell a car private sale and get a bit more money out of it but it's such a [TS]

  pain in the ass [TS]

  it's really not worth it a lot of the time yes people terrible I I have done [TS]

  that twice on never do it again I will I will always sell my car back to the [TS]

  dealer now because it's just i know im getting a little bit ripped off by it [TS]

  but it says it saves you like months of dealing with flaky people and yet [TS]

  terrible there is an actual convenience to it they give you want to call it a [TS]

  convenience charge is as opposed to Ticketmaster where the convenience [TS]

  charge I wish I wouldn't even mind paying it if they if when you go to buy [TS]

  something at ticketmaster in it and they charged June 1754 convenience charge if [TS]

  they just put an asterisk after it and then at the bottom [TS]

  put a footnote that said not actually convenient I wish I would pay it without [TS]

  words today should call the dealer to dealer markup that you pay on trade in [TS]

  is it's a convenience charge cuz they know they know exactly what a pain in [TS]

  the asses to sell it private [TS]

  unless you're like in the case we're late your brother or your best friend is [TS]

  actually in the market for the used car you're looking to get rid of yeah well [TS]

  even then I would you would you sell your car somebody you know you know I [TS]

  guess I would be a little reluctant to do it because you know it's it's like [TS]

  the whole don't mix business with pleasure where you sell it you might [TS]

  sell it in good conscience that the car has you know no problem is that you're [TS]

  actually aware of your just won a new car and then all of a sudden you sell it [TS]

  and the transition goes bad and you feel like a jerk exactly you want you want to [TS]

  be like out of your life you want a clean break when you get rid of [TS]

  something that's so potentially financially burdensome to somebody you [TS]

  don't want to be involved so yeah I I would not recommend that you do you get [TS]

  an iMac right now especially because you don't you know you upgrade so [TS]

  infrequently I I can I can foresee maybe this will be broadcast clam chowder [TS]

  see I can foresee you buying the iMac you know you know in a few weeks or [TS]

  months no that's my radio I want to see you buy the iMac in three months before [TS]

  the IMF and the new antenna come out and you're gonna say how I really want the [TS]

  new one and you're not going to get it for five years like this is going to sit [TS]

  at your desk and you're going to be like I want to have bought the new one but [TS]

  you're not going to care enough to actually go through the hassle of doing [TS]

  it it's like listening to podcasts from long enough [TS]

  are probably very familiar with the 11 inch MacBook Air that you have that you [TS]

  have been saying you've been trying to sell how long as a year old yeah I [TS]

  remember you first attitude and Benjamin TV some idea of how long it was it's the [TS]

  last 11 inch air that doesn't have a light up keyboard it's a 2010 model [TS]

  right right yeah did I guess that's the year and so as soon as the light up [TS]

  keyboard came out I really thought about buying one just to get that light [TS]

  keyboard because you can't see the keys on the icon and our players plus the [TS]

  keys is such as they light up it's actually there there'll be made like [TS]

  some clicky you know like the older 11 injuries have like a squishy or less [TS]

  clicky keyboard so you have this computer the you've been dissatisfied [TS]

  with 43 years and most probably it is the smallest laptop that Apple sells it [TS]

  would be the easiest thing in the world just sell to somebody and ship and you [TS]

  have a different people who have probably gave you giving you offers [TS]

  since you first mentioned in a podcast three years ago and other to find the [TS]

  right so I i dont buy your iMac read story at all [TS]

  well that's more likely that we'd figure out you know senator for Jonah somewhere [TS]

  else in the house and see if there's if you if you foresee a need for that in [TS]

  the next year where that would be the right choice as opposed to a laptop or [TS]

  something then that that's a valid way out for you I think here's the other [TS]

  thing I wanted to talk to you about before you on this new new Mac as you [TS]

  add a review if one were buying an iMac I'm intrigued by the fusion drive which [TS]

  is the SSD smallish SSD combined with a spinning hard disk that the filesystem [TS]

  magically make superiors a single boy it combines some measure of the speed of an [TS]

  SST with the greater capacity of a spinning [TS]

  and you you mentioned almost offhandedly that one terabyte fusion drive is not [TS]

  too bad but the three terabyte one is no good that do you agree with that no I [TS]

  mentioned that the DA one terabyte SSD a real all as D one terabyte as a study [TS]

  which is now available on the max most of them at least that that while it is [TS]

  more expensive and smaller is way better than a fusion drive ok and so you know a [TS]

  lot of people when fusion drives first came out it was great it was it's still [TS]

  is a great option no question it is a fantastic option and I would say anybody [TS]

  buying an iMac has it it's only available in iMac and Mac Mini rain yeah [TS]

  I think if you're not going to get into do it yourself then with the terminal [TS]

  command right on the Mac Mini iMac well I think not positive I think the drives [TS]

  both have to be internal I don't think it'll do it on external so you pretty [TS]

  much stuck with like old Mac Pros iMac Mac minis so no positive anyway when I [TS]

  would even make any sense with a portable because I mean what's the sense [TS]

  of having a portable [TS]

  a MacBook that that the start of a drive is tied to an external drive I mean [TS]

  theory you could do it but there's no way you can also you know if you have [TS]

  one of the older MacBook Pros with the optical drives you do think we swap swap [TS]

  it out for the hard drive bays to the you know it's it's it's a decent set up [TS]

  anyway so fusion drive whether you get it built in or whether you do the happy [TS]

  commands to enable yourself on the command line drive is good and if you're [TS]

  going to buy a computer where that's an option if you don't want to go all the [TS]

  way to the mall SSD or you can afford it or if you need the space of the fusion [TS]

  drive then do the fusion drive it is way better than the hard drive and whatever [TS]

  I think the charge a couple hundred dollars to get it over just a hard drive [TS]

  I actually haven't Informatica tell you so [TS]

  new iMac fault hard drive is one terabyte spinning hard disk if you want [TS]

  to upgrade to a fusion drive one terabyte so same storage capacity but [TS]

  now it's a fusion drive its $200 out on the terabyte add 350 so it's a hundred [TS]

  and fifty more than one terabyte definitely worth it and oh so that's [TS]

  that's great and then here's the pricing on a pure flash storage drive so 256 [TS]

  gigabytes is $200 says the same as the one terabyte fusion drive 512 gigabyte [TS]

  SST is $500 out on and in the big 12 1 terabyte SST is $1,000 out on right so [TS]

  you can see you know this does get expensive quickly right and then all the [TS]

  time act that I would not want i I would definitely think twice about replacing [TS]

  nine months from now comes up to $4,000 so you can drive is very good it is [TS]

  substantially better than hard drugs no question but it isn't as good as a peer [TS]

  SSD and this is not I refuse to drive for a while before I bit the bullet and [TS]

  bought a big SSD so first I did over the last few years I've thanks to the [TS]

  freedom of the old Mac Pro I've experiment with a lot of these different [TS]

  things I first had two different small SSDs over the years and I would you like [TS]

  you know the home directory on the SSD or do everything on there then [TS]

  assembling certain big directories off onto hard drive and stuff like that have [TS]

  done a few arrangements there then i did i do it yourself using drive and then I [TS]

  did a real big SSD with with no more spinning disk in the mission and all [TS]

  those things are very different and the real few the real SSD that has no [TS]

  spending just involved whatsoever [TS]

  really is substantially faster and most importantly it is more consistent fusion [TS]

  drive has this you know this buffering system where most of the time it can be [TS]

  very fast but then if you do something that doesn't expect the time cash [TS]

  reviewed [TS]

  if you try to write too much data and the right before faster than writes it [TS]

  out you can start you can hit these things were all of a sudden things will [TS]

  get a lot slower as it has to use the spinning disk more than I thought it [TS]

  would need to you can rob Peter to pay Paul for a while but eventually Peters [TS]

  right because the way fusion drive to work days they have this this system [TS]

  where they they move frequently used blocks to and from 828 gig SSD and in [TS]

  the reserve I think 48 gigs are two gig something like that some some small [TS]

  single digit number of gigs they reserve that as a write buffer so all rights go [TS]

  to that first and then get before it out to be spinning disk overtime and said [TS]

  they saw that there's a system going going on behind the scenes of shuffling [TS]

  stuff back and forth but the idea is it tries to put the most frequently used up [TS]

  onto the fusion or onto the SSD but because the SSD is a tenth the size or [TS]

  30th the size of the hard drive it's not be able to fit everything on there and [TS]

  so it's gonna get wrong sometimes and you're gonna have to hit the hard drive [TS]

  here in there and makes for a very uneven experience in my in my experience [TS]

  at least like it's a very inconsistent uneven thing worse where you have a [TS]

  fastest most of the time but then all of a sudden something will be ballin page [TS]

  and you'll hear the heart of this this is slow come on yesterday you know it's [TS]

  it's not as good so it is way better than a hard drive which is that slow all [TS]

  the time for everything it's way better than a hard drive but if you can afford [TS]

  to get the all SSD it is worth it and I take issue with any kind of comparison [TS]

  that said you know what I was putting out comparisons with like you know if [TS]

  you can figure a Mac Pro and iMac with equal specs price difference is actually [TS]

  pretty small a lot of people take issue with that saying well know you can get [TS]

  the fusion drive at the same thing trust me it's not and that's why you know if [TS]

  you're gonna make a price comparison between the Mac Pro and iMac you should [TS]

  really do a fair comparison but they both have all SSD storage [TS]

  one of the reasons I've been had this MacBook Pro that may mean desktop since [TS]

  2008 is that exactly when did it but I spent a while though like 2010 or so [TS]

  also with Dan yeah two years after about it I replace the hard drive with a [TS]

  necessity as the start of triumph and its 200 gigabyte yet to 200 gigabyte [TS]

  drive and it made such a difference that it felt like I bought it felt like I [TS]

  bought a new MacBook Pro it felt like I have a brand new machine is way faster [TS]

  than the old one so it feels still feels to me like a three year old machine or [TS]

  four-year old machine not a six year old machine because it was so much faster [TS]

  just replacing that that's a great example compared to an iMac either [TS]

  because I Mexico faster drives portable mobile drives but it is still a [TS]

  difference i mean that more than anything you know I i've been analyzing [TS]

  and writing about debating between laptops and desktops for years now [TS]

  always faces questions myself and one of the reasons why you justify going Mac [TS]

  Pro only in the past [TS]

  instead of just getting a laptop was there is massive difference between the [TS]

  performance of desktop hard drives and laptop hard drives because that's how [TS]

  hard it can be so much bigger could you so much more power they were able to [TS]

  just completely mop the floor with her performance now though that gap is way [TS]

  smaller now the gap is gone effectively because as as these are tiny and they [TS]

  don't use any power even the good ones are trying to use any power so you get [TS]

  the exact same as DS or these pci-express models you the exact same [TS]

  ones between laptops and desktop so now you have the exact same disk performance [TS]

  and it's amazing it's a shockingly fest thousands of times faster than on hard [TS]

  drives so the gap between laptops and desktops has closed more than anything [TS]

  because of SSDs the other thing that it heralds is [TS]

  is like the end of of physical feedback from your computer buying we talked on [TS]

  the previous episode re-recorded you know about the old days of these in [TS]

  ninety-seven and modems and floppy drives and you know spin even today [TS]

  spinning hard disk you can hear it does that sound of the hard drive grinding [TS]

  and your nineties PC when you did anything right but older heart drugs [TS]

  were a lot louder and louder see you mean you feel it you could feel a floppy [TS]

  being used [TS]

  physically you can always feel on a Macbook when I had a DVD and CD you [TS]

  could feel the spinning you know we don't think about it with iOS devices [TS]

  iOS devices have always been assessed but you know as hard drives died out [TS]

  it's like the last physical you know there's something about that where I [TS]

  still associate computers and computer that you using hard you can somehow hear [TS]

  it [TS]

  field and that's no longer the case [TS]

  like the new Mac Pro it has it has one moving part the fan that's it that's [TS]

  crazy if you look even most Macs have more than one fan right so far the Mac [TS]

  Pro fan is pretty darn quiet and there's a pretty decent chance that the other [TS]

  ambient noise in whatever room you work in you won't be able to hear the fan [TS]

  above it [TS]

  yeah and that's amazing you know that and you know that's one of the reasons [TS]

  why they don't have any hard drive bays and even bother with that they don't [TS]

  have you know any certainly optical base that I don't even care anymore about [TS]

  that one of the reasons why is because they were all the events they were able [TS]

  to have this disclosure by just having one central place for all the heat goes [TS]

  and then one nice big quiet fan to blow it out that's awesome [TS]

  inspire so many reasons that's just cool [TS]

  and it's it's an amazing feeling that you have not only a computer but the [TS]

  highest-end computer in the lineup that only has one moving part and you don't [TS]

  even hear it that's amazing [TS]

  yeah I don't even mean to imply that I'm nostalgic for it and I'm not quite to [TS]

  Syracuse in levels but I've always been annoyed by loud computers allowed fans [TS]

  and certainly like honey certain frequencies of anything you can hear [TS]

  that's one area where I was when I was building my own PCs back another PC guy [TS]

  I I spent so much money and bought so many weird things to try to quiet my [TS]

  computers down I've I had like these mounts for the hard drives that had [TS]

  these big rubber band kind of gas continued so you die hard overbilling [TS]

  suspended and rubber bands and I had Dynamat supposed to use on car doors and [TS]

  installing car stereos that vibrate too much I had Dynamat lining my case and [TS]

  the special like carbon material from Germany that was supposed to meet the [TS]

  case even quieter and these giant heatsinks these big giant slow fans I [TS]

  spent hundreds of dollars trying to achieve the volume levels of every Mac [TS]

  even even towards the end of that time even Dell's [TS]

  evenly PCs from regular vendors are shipping that were quieter than what you [TS]

  could build yourself cuz they would get the big fans the big things there was a [TS]

  constant battle and computer to be fast and have this you know hot GPU and hot [TS]

  CPU and three or four hard drives or do you want to be quiet and now you want to [TS]

  make that choice anymore now they're just all quiet which is fantastic and I [TS]

  think it's the sort of thing that once hard drives really do go away and you [TS]

  know an awful lot of people you know anybody with a MacBook Air who really [TS]

  lives off it on a day-to-day basis for drugs or thing of the past or I guess [TS]

  the new MacBook Pros right there all SST yeah all the right now [TS]

  in hindsight once that happens the idea that your computer used to make noise [TS]

  and you'd feel it's fitting it vibrating is gonna seem so anti-dilution you know [TS]

  like it's a Rube Goldberg contraption you know that there were like marbles [TS]

  going down a slide that shot over you know a flame and ran into a series of [TS]

  dominoes that were set up and if they felt exactly right and your data would [TS]

  come out as it was intended that pretty much just ahead I really do think you [TS]

  know even my son is 10 but certainly 44 Adam it's the idea that your computer [TS]

  spot her a faster read the one here it is here it going as it worked and then [TS]

  you know you know how you get worried in the old days you know to get worried [TS]

  when you stop hearing your computer because that meant you know something [TS]

  terrible had happened it was actually feedback that was useful and to think [TS]

  you know the thing that not only not only did we have all this motion and [TS]

  physical noise when you think about what what is hard it actually do so that you [TS]

  know before before I guess is designed experiment with 15,000 rpm desktop hard [TS]

  drives from the Western Digital Raptor series that nobody should ever by its [TS]

  not worth it you know like to think that he hears this drive that even in laptops [TS]

  it's it's pretty amazing that this works at all this tiny little drive that has [TS]

  these big platters in them that spin at over 7,000 rpm sometimes 15,000 rpm for [TS]

  the good ones and have these little tiny heads floating like nanometers above the [TS]

  head an enemies above the splatter that spending the super fast and so will head [TS]

  moves around like a hundred times per second trial like read instead of as it [TS]

  passes them ahead I mean the idea that works at all that that ever worked and [TS]

  it works reasonably well for him [TS]

  that's amazing that that is I think even more [TS]

  goldberg Ian than than anything else like just the way hard drives work at [TS]

  all and the fact that they do work at all is shocking yeah my parents iMac old [TS]

  iMac went belly-up before Christmas and the hard drive went belly-up but they [TS]

  were due for an upgrade anyway and and so I talked him into you know like [TS]

  typical people they just thought you should fix it because you don't just buy [TS]

  new computers but I talked him into getting a new iMac instead I tried to [TS]

  explain how hard drive works to them and i really I don't think they believe me [TS]

  it seems ridiculously and the more you learn about it the more crazy an [TS]

  impossible it seems right and even know SSDs do the same thing and and the [TS]

  result is equally amazing knowing how it works makes perfect sense right and and [TS]

  there's there's some complexity in like how their controllers work but the [TS]

  fundamental part of how the data is stored in the red as is way simpler and [TS]

  much more sensible sounding you know nothing too like a lot of people [TS]

  reminisce about the iPhone one enclosure that all the of all the iPhones the the [TS]

  best feeling one of the one I like the best of the best of the best in your [TS]

  hand was the iPhone one and I disagree with that for a major reason that most [TS]

  people never talked about it ran warm and I normally a pretty warm hands so [TS]

  it's uncomfortable if I'm holding something warm for a while the answers [TS]

  to sweat that sucks and so I was never that come with a fun one because if you [TS]

  used it to do anything [TS]

  not not not even heavy duty stuff you were just doing anything on an even [TS]

  browsing the web for more than five minutes maybe it would be like warm to [TS]

  the touch and uncomfortable I don't know if that's fair though to hold that [TS]

  against it because that's it's I think when people say that they're just [TS]

  talking about it [TS]

  as like let's just say like comparing all iPhones ever made [TS]

  power off as just physical objects that you're going to carry and judge before [TS]

  you even see the OS because it otherwise you get in there you know you certainly [TS]

  get into performance which gets better year-over-year significant than what was [TS]

  the stat they gave it the 5s 4248 times faster and it's not even close it's [TS]

  absurd but you also get into things like well you know I was 1.0 was really [TS]

  rudimentary didn't have apps you know i i i think when people sing the praises [TS]

  of the original iPhone a minute early in the industrial design sense that you [TS]

  know and even not even counting screen resolution just what it felt like [TS]

  powered off right as long as you try to plug in headphones that were not have [TS]

  phones did so with just you know that the shape of the jack has a little i'd [TS]

  like i'd like cut one of the plugs down like cut up some rubber on anyway so you [TS]

  know looking back I the heat was annoying right will I think now you know [TS]

  talking about how computers have been getting better as the whole world has [TS]

  moved primarily towards laptops as their PCs instead of desktops over the last [TS]

  fifteen years or so I think it's very we we've got this period of laptops even up [TS]

  until two or three years ago where it was perfectly normal for me to work [TS]

  pretty hot and so if you were using a laptop to do something even moderately [TS]

  substantial just for youjust yeah just using it regularly no typing emails [TS]

  gonna browsing the web you know maybe playing a video and that's tough that's [TS]

  considered like you know moderate usage or even like using these days it would [TS]

  get noticeably warm and it would radiate heat out the keyboard right into your [TS]

  hands and so that was a graceful it's not like all of our old vibrating [TS]

  linking computers of the old days it's ungrateful it uncomfortable it's [TS]

  annoying and even now a navlab have gotten so good [TS]

  that a combination of both power management getting very good so it use [TS]

  it creates less heat but also the the ventilation designs especially of the [TS]

  retina MacBook Pros ventilation designs are so good that it doesn't even get [TS]

  noticeably higher than normal use anymore I mean you can make it hot if [TS]

  you really try but you have to really try that we call everybody calls him [TS]

  laptops notebook but it should use a laptop or notebook and the argument in [TS]

  favor of notebook has always been the most people don't actually use them on [TS]

  their lap sort of a stupid word but I usually if I'm on an airplane do [TS]

  actually put it on my lap because I find it easier to type with my risks at lab [TS]

  level than my wrist said like chin level on the train from me and yeah that's [TS]

  where I really remember noticing it you know that it would get actually hot and [TS]

  it's it's as yet one more area where we've we've kind of made incredible [TS]

  strides and knowingly talks about it that computers are way better now than [TS]

  they were even a few years ago for the most part because the most popular kind [TS]

  of computer the laptop is finally getting better design and more efficient [TS]

  with heat generation so that's like 11 more big everyday annoyances that that's [TS]

  becoming better it's just clearly overall massive increases in energy [TS]

  efficiency because it's also battery life has suddenly gotten way better [TS]

  exactly like year over year like buying iPad error a year ago and then all of a [TS]

  sudden you're way behind on the battery life curve from the ones that are out [TS]

  now it's very different than the days when you know the year over year thing [TS]

  was wow that one so much faster now he's a confounding it upgrade your air I did [TS]

  talk about our first sponsor at our friends at pack place you guys know back [TS]

  please to sponsor two previous episode they've been here before [TS]

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  the house you're on your iPhone you can get access to any of the files that are [TS]

  back-to-back place right through the app you can restore one file or all your [TS]

  files easily with with their restore features it's founded by Acts Apple [TS]

  engineers it runs native on your Mac its updated for Mavericks and and that to me [TS]

  is such a huge deal because it's not just some kind of janky thing that meant [TS]

  for Windows in there have a Mac client this is a service that is for Mac users [TS]

  by Mac users / engineers and it's no nonsense offer there's no add-ons are [TS]

  gimmicks or additional charges you just pay $5 per month per computer and you [TS]

  get unlimited on throttle back up for that computer couldn't be easier and [TS]

  it's super super good deal [TS]

  the simplest online backup program to use you just install it it does the rest [TS]

  just $5 a month your sleep so much better with the peace of mind knowing [TS]

  that your whole Mac is backed up now just backed up [TS]

  backed up online at your house so if the house burns down get robbed everything [TS]

  that could go wrong right there if your back if you're only backup is say a time [TS]

  machine hard drive connected to your Mac you don't have to worry about it you've [TS]

  got something out of the house you know I used it's nice because like you are [TS]

  you are paying somebody else to worry about your backup it's no longer just on [TS]

  you and it's somebody who is a professional at it exactly I used to [TS]

  before back please I used to my office I plan was that I had to set of super [TS]

  duper clone backups from my stuff and every time I would go home [TS]

  Amy's my parents live in the same town I would just take it with me and swap them [TS]

  out with a copy stashed in my parents house but whatever stupid because I [TS]

  forget sometimes I wouldn't have it up today and then ended up with like the [TS]

  one it was off site was eleven twelve months out today so I didn't really have [TS]

  an offsite backup like anything and I thought well maybe I could make it more [TS]

  convenient safe deposit box at a bank here near my house but i wanna go to [TS]

  bank on regular basis who does not want to do you want to take a hard drive to [TS]

  the bank and then get a manager I mean that's sounds good and the bank is [TS]

  period in a secure place but [TS]

  back but you just install it and it just it's just their offline you have to [TS]

  worry about it and it's up to date all the time you don't have to remember to [TS]

  do anything I think that's a really good rule of thumb is any backup system where [TS]

  you have to remember to do something is not really a backup system exactly and [TS]

  back places that sort of thing what do you do go to Backblaze dot com slash [TS]

  daring fireball and don't know you came from the show [TS]

  Backblaze dot com slash during fireball you'll find out more [TS]

  great-great-great sponsor alright here's what I want to talk about I want to work [TS]

  this out I wanna do the defendant of discussion [TS]

  big-screen iPhones talking up speaking about old iPhones and I found this place [TS]

  because I don't feel like it should be that complicated [TS]

  hopefully it won't be that people like the rumor mill is all over the map on [TS]

  this and I guess it was on Friday the Wall Street Journal [TS]

  the big news of the day on friday was a report in the Wall Street Journal that [TS]

  Apple is working on to bigger iPhones for this year it was one of them bigger [TS]

  than 4.5 inches diagonal and one of the bigger than five inches diagonal and [TS]

  that one's further along than the other [TS]

  double-blind number one I don't understand how they think one that's in [TS]

  preliminary development in January has any chance of coming out this year like [TS]

  that's not how it works and I know what the original iPhone it was a little bit [TS]

  seat of the pants in terms of that industrial design was tweaked a few [TS]

  months before it was unveiled in January [TS]

  and even some of the major components were updated between when it was [TS]

  announced in January 2007 when it went on sale at the end of June that year [TS]

  like the biggest one is that in January when it was announced it was going to [TS]

  have a plastic display right they made that switch from plastic to gorilla [TS]

  glass in between January and June which is a huge deal but that's the original [TS]

  iPhone sold like a couple of million in the first year I can I must say that was [TS]

  easy I'm sure it was difficult but apple sold 51 million iPhones now they weren't [TS]

  all five veces but they sold 51 million iPhones in the quarter that just [TS]

  finished they they they can't change things a few months in advance any more [TS]

  like that's part of the problems that they phase in this era when iPhones and [TS]

  iPads are such selling such remarkable qualities they have to get things up at [TS]

  least a year in advance if not more and they have to only do things that can be [TS]

  high yield because they have to make so many of them that they know they can't [TS]

  afford to use like cutting-edge green technology that is going to be low yield [TS]

  for the next 18 months they can't do that on the iPhone they can do something [TS]

  else but not the iPhone so I exactly I completely agree that they cannot have [TS]

  low you can't do it they might be able to now next time they come out with a [TS]

  big new thing you know i watch whatever they're just pick any new thing it's [TS]

  probably gonna start a lot slower than people think like you know armchair [TS]

  analysts who want Apple to come out with it and i watch on Apple TV that that is [TS]

  just as big of a business as the iPad or iPhone within a couple of months with [TS]

  that nothing ever works that way [TS]

  new things start slow and building in hindsight you know the iPhone has grown [TS]

  pretty quick but you can take chances with yield and stuff like that on a new [TS]

  product that you can't on a revision to an established and super super popular [TS]

  products like the iPhone doesn't make any sense so they're right there the [TS]

  wall street journal printed something that to me doesn't make sense and they [TS]

  should know better like you know as reticent as Apple employees are to tell [TS]

  you you know any kind of secrets or what they're working on it it's not that hard [TS]

  to find people who let you know that the time basic timeline on hardware for iOS [TS]

  devices is really surprisingly long it's you know I might say they can't change [TS]

  anything [TS]

  a year in advance but it it's long you know whatever iPhone or iPhones that [TS]

  they're planning to unveil this year they've been in the works for you know [TS]

  years not months probably at least 18 months you know and it's another example [TS]

  of that mentality is like when the iPad Mini came out last year the first one [TS]

  and and some people attributed to the Nexus 7 or something like that that it [TS]

  shipped four months earlier it doesn't work like that they can't [TS]

  it has nothing to do with you know trying to defend against copying other [TS]

  people who've made smaller tablets they just cant there's no way they could make [TS]

  a new device and four months it just doesn't work like that [TS]

  here's the thing I don't understand this and Bloomberg had a story a couple [TS]

  months ago half way similar to the wall street journal thing about two different [TS]

  sizes of bigger than the current iPhone display so maybe there is something to [TS]

  it I don't know there's two different somewhat reputable news sources that if [TS]

  printed somewhat the same thing but the Bloomberg story couple months ago said [TS]

  the glass was gonna be curbed on the edges either although I think and it was [TS]

  ambiguous which way it was going to be curved like concave or convex and when I [TS]

  expressed skepticism about that during fireball some readers suggested that I [TS]

  was thinking about the wrong and it probably wasn't concave like a lot of [TS]

  these Android phones with curved screens but it might be the other way so that [TS]

  they could taper the edges and make the edges seems they're right but I would [TS]

  expect that if there's a curve in the glass or a tape from the glass it's [TS]

  probably not in the area of the glass that is the display it's probably on the [TS]

  borders its largest class right exactly and what thing to consider so you know [TS]

  and I know it used to be the common game where Apple would do this this kind of [TS]

  controlled leaks to the wall street journal and possibly Bloomberg in the [TS]

  past and so there is a certain style there's a certain style of Wall Street [TS]

  Journal story about Apple stuff that you could pretty much identify as a [TS]

  controlled intentional leak usually to set expectations in the market order to [TS]

  confirm or deny some of the hype etcetera [TS]

  do you think first of all do they still seem to do that or has that changed in [TS]

  the Cook era and second of all do you think this is one of those things I [TS]

  think it has changed a little or at least it hasn't happened recently that I [TS]

  could think of [TS]

  and at the very least be I don't think this is one of those at all I really [TS]

  kind of reads like one that's gone through two or three levels of telephone [TS]

  yeah exactly I think so [TS]

  so the big one I think the best example of one of those controlled leaks i think [TS]

  is weeks in ahead of the original iPad introduction and I'm pretty sure the [TS]

  wall street journal had a story that you know that Apple is definitely working on [TS]

  a tablet computer and that they're targeting a price under $1000 it right [TS]

  and everybody took that to mean that that marketing is for its gonna cost [TS]

  $999 to start and it just it was very clear and there wasn't anything you know [TS]

  there wasn't anything else to the story really to the league was there working [TS]

  on a tablet and it's gonna be under a thousand and everybody took that to mean [TS]

  it's going to be $9.99 to start to probably you know with configurations [TS]

  you know $100 above that trier capacity so then when the iPad came out and it [TS]

  started at $4.99 it felt like it was half the price everybody in the room had [TS]

  been expecting the whole event want you know was 45 minutes into the event and [TS]

  everybody was like oh this is pretty Cordova's $1,000 and I was in their late [TS]

  $4.99 and it felt like wow how Apple just totally wowed me with a price yet [TS]

  that was masterful this doesn't seem like that because this doesn't seem like [TS]

  they're setting up any kind of any kind of way to its a good controlled leaks [TS]

  from Apple to me is one where it seems like they're setting up a way to under [TS]

  promise and over deliver and whereas saying just saying that there's two [TS]

  bigger iPhone coming out doesn't do either of those I think they've they've [TS]

  also used them in the past two kind of calm people's fears of what they might [TS]

  not be doing much to say like you know don't worry we got this right now like [TS]

  like yeah we know we're supposed to make a bigger iPhone don't worry you know [TS]

  we'll have one shortly [TS]

  i think thats [TS]

  if this is a controlled lead i think thats the reason for it not not to sort [TS]

  of petitions to too low and over deliver but to tell people like you got it if [TS]

  you don't have to worry you don't have to bail on us [TS]

  platforms if you want a bigger screen don't worry we're gonna make a bigger [TS]

  screen finally you know that's the reason so I don't think it's I wouldn't [TS]

  rule it out and for just that reason I guess that is there is a logical reason [TS]

  why they might the two thing though [TS]

  confuses me tremendously yeah that's that's also the fact that they're saying [TS]

  there's two new ones I think not only is unlikely but it's really weak story the [TS]

  way they've written in the goal is really kind of lots of stuff is no [TS]

  development doesn't mean come out you know and then the way it's written with [TS]

  lie not with actual screen sizes but may be larger than X ray so the smaller or [TS]

  larger than four and a half the bigger than larger than 15 I would have never [TS]

  liked that so that's a weird way to say it like that so it's it's kind of odd [TS]

  that's why I think it looks like this is kind of been turned a couple times and [TS]

  something some somebody somebody heard something wrong or interpret something [TS]

  wrong along the way and it is entirely possible that one explanation for the [TS]

  for the leaks for the story in the journal in the 18 Bloomberg which kind [TS]

  of matches is that they come not from Apple but from Asian suppliers who make [TS]

  screens and it could be that Apple has placed you know not significantly hey [TS]

  they're ramping up production but significant they're trying to build a [TS]

  lot of test devices [TS]

  for multiple screen sizes and you know that they've built prototypes of four [TS]

  point eight inch iPhones and 5.3 inch iPhones or or while the suppliers man [TS]

  may have no idea what the devices are that they're built that they're buying [TS]

  though for pointed in touch screens and 5.3 inch touch screens and they're [TS]

  guessing that therefore bigger iPhones and because they've bought both they've [TS]

  passed this along and the Journal and Bloomberg both presume that just because [TS]

  Apple as prototypes that there are going to be real products shipping products [TS]

  that to me makes sense that it's just they're just under arrest just [TS]

  completely misunderstanding how Apple does product development right and you [TS]

  know the other thing to look at the timing of these announcements and and [TS]

  and the skill the iPhone the iPhone has reached a scale where it's very hard to [TS]

  surprises with hardware anymore and you can look at the last few releases as [TS]

  evidence that usually you'll start getting parts leaks for the iPhones like [TS]

  three of six months before they actually come out it's a pretty far ahead of time [TS]

  I mean didn't we have I think we had parts leaks or one of the other the 505 [TS]

  s think we had them like in February when it was that we had looked so long [TS]

  in advance because they have they have evolved so much manufacturing to get [TS]

  this kind of roll out on this massive scale device that they get like somebody [TS]

  always leaks in this massive amount of people involved here and so whatever [TS]

  they're planning on doing with the iPhone it's gonna it's gonna creep up on [TS]

  us [TS]

  gradually you know it's going to be very clear what they're doing [TS]

  hardware wise physical size wise it can be very clear what they're doing [TS]

  probably by June quite possibly [TS]

  i think is it worth taking a step back and I know I've written about this I [TS]

  know you've written about it [TS]

  Marco dot org I don't know that anything will say is new but I feel like if we [TS]

  put it all together it'll make more sense of the big picture and the first [TS]

  thing I think you have to ask is what problem are you trying to solve with a [TS]

  bigger screen i've because there's no way they're ever gonna make it if it [TS]

  doesn't actually solve the real problem right now it in one sense it could just [TS]

  be a pure marketing problem and I think that this one is it is to some degree [TS]

  true where there are some number of people who when they decide what to buy [TS]

  the next phone that they want a bigger iPhone are bigger display them that the [TS]

  iPhone has today and that means that they're not going to buy an iPhone [TS]

  they're gonna buy an Android or maybe a Windows Phone but there's no other [TS]

  choice and there are people there is absolutely no doubt in my mind there are [TS]

  people who are who that's like the first thing on their mind when you're buying [TS]

  your next phone and it could be that they're the phone they're replacing [TS]

  they've just considered the display to be too small and I think that's an [TS]

  important amount but I think that's sort of been your argument that you the [TS]

  reason you believe Apple it probably is working on a bigger screen iPhone is [TS]

  just that there's too much they're leaving too much money on the table by [TS]

  not selling to the people who that's their primary decision [TS]

  oh yeah and and that's actually getting its gonna get worse if they don't dress [TS]

  this as a friend Ben Thompson points out on on strategic curry I get this wrong [TS]

  every time [TS]

  close enough Ben Thompson site as he pointed out recently [TS]

  apple's next wave of growth is gonna happen in Asia and the bigger screen [TS]

  devices are very popular there especially the high end which is where [TS]

  Apple competes the think things like the Galaxy Note sell very well in a lot of [TS]

  the Asian countries he noticed truly humongous I mean that's like 5.7 I mean [TS]

  it really you know [TS]

  on the tablet or smartphone scale it really is closer to tablet phone right [TS]

  and and so for Apple to continue not to have a bigger screen phone in their [TS]

  lineup as they grow more into Asia that's going to that's going to hurt [TS]

  them more than it has in the USA in the us- [TS]

  there are lots of these big screen phones and we see them BC comparisons to [TS]

  see the iPhone losing those comparisons and we see some people who buy them but [TS]

  percentage-wise as far as I know the data shows they aren't actually [TS]

  incredibly popular like there are they do sell but they're not like insanely [TS]

  popular compared to how they are in in Asia so it's certainly more pressing for [TS]

  for the for that sales and marketing reason it's becoming more pressing as [TS]

  time goes on for Apple to address this purely because of the different markets [TS]

  much there now gonna expand so that's that's one issue but there is no it is [TS]

  certainly still a marketing issue even and even in the USA and other places [TS]

  though that I like us where we've seen and I've seen so many people who buy [TS]

  Android phones instead of iPhones because of the screen size and this this [TS]

  applies to the supposed a whole spectrum from from geeks all the way down to you [TS]

  know extreme novices people who want a bigger screen because bigger screens are [TS]

  nice for a lot of reasons you know it's it does lead to a bigger phone which is [TS]

  bad for some reasons but for a lot of people the bigger screen is really [TS]

  important and is often the biggest buying factor for why did hit the phone [TS]

  they pick that because the tradeoff math is multi variable it's not just a simple [TS]

  one factor this way one factor this way decide it's very many variables 11 [TS]

  phones but back in the flip phone era when when when the Motorola RAZR can [TS]

  help when phones are pushing to get smaller and smaller and smaller what [TS]

  they were mostly doing was getting thinner it wasn't a people didn't [TS]

  require their phone to be super narrow and short what was really cool is making [TS]

  it then because that would make it fit more graceful in a pocket [TS]

  but having this beautifully bold honored other we wouldn't care but everyone else [TS]

  does so you know the the thing that this was on the phone to be small but they're [TS]

  only to be as thin and they need to be thin and fit racial in a pocket but you [TS]

  can make a pretty nice sized screen that still puts gracefully into it like most [TS]

  jeans pockets and as long as the whole body of the phone is relatively thin so [TS]

  I don't think you need to have your phone's be small anymore and I think I [TS]

  think the market is validating that has been touting that for years that you [TS]

  know there's going to be people who like the smartphone but people like bigger [TS]

  screens and and they do more with their phones now and more computing type tests [TS]

  were there were big screen helps and so the standards now totally different and [TS]

  I think people really like for me I mean would you buy one if if they made one [TS]

  save an inch bigger so you know or almost five inches I can't answer later [TS]

  than four and a half I can quote I can't answer that because the next thing did [TS]

  before we talk about this which is OK marketing lies there is a there's a [TS]

  problem to be solved but you can't just solve it by saying make a bigger I've it [TS]

  has to date has to be a specifically has to be specific and has to have an exact [TS]

  pixel count and here I thought about two-thirds of it without the well but [TS]

  here's the thing you when people say they want a beer from there's two ways [TS]

  to make a bigger phone one would be to make everything bigger in that you're [TS]

  saying I loose terms you're solving [TS]

  a vision problem that in in the easiest way to do this and many people does not [TS]

  originally you've even written about it but let's just say it would be like the [TS]

  the to make it like the iPad Mini type editor the exact same pixel count so [TS]

  11:36 vertically by 6:40 horizontally and instead of it 332 pixels per inch it [TS]

  would be like the iPad airs resolution 264 pixels per inch it comes out to like [TS]

  four point nine inches diagonal four point for the software would just run [TS]

  and so the relationship between big iPhone and smaller iPhone would be [TS]

  exactly the same as iPad Mini type ad [TS]

  air and the problem that it would solve is that if you think text is too small [TS]

  to read on your phone and that pictures on quite big enough you 1 video to be a [TS]

  little bigger but the exact same resolution by the bigger one that's not [TS]

  what everybody wants in a bigger iPhone though the other problem you could solve [TS]

  is putting more information on your phone hacking more pixels in and so you [TS]

  know Apple doesn't compete on specs of the time in fact famously sometimes does [TS]

  stubbornly dozen but there are a hundred funds with true 1080p display so it's [TS]

  like 1920 by 1080 pixels which is a lot more pixels than an iPhone 5 45 s so [TS]

  Apple could go that way and make a five-inch phone with who knows what [TS]

  exactly would be whether it be 1920 by 1080 or something that moral line with [TS]

  the dimensions that they've used before and keep the resolution at 332 pixels [TS]

  per inch or even increase it go to like 400 pixels per inch like HTC hasn't some [TS]

  of their phones and you know just make a new size target for developers you have [TS]

  to target a second size [TS]

  and then you'd have the same size tax that you're physically same size texts [TS]

  you're looking for but you'd be able to fit more of it on screen that's exactly [TS]

  you know you can't one phone can't solve both problems and I don't know why I i [TS]

  cant see you can't solve both problems and if I think Apple is more likely to [TS]

  go the I i say judging by past history to go the first root meaning keep it at [TS]

  1136 by 640 and just make it bigger and then they have a big phone and they [TS]

  would keep sell it alongside a new next-generation iPhone you know 64 inch [TS]

  screen and it would be like the iPad and iPad Mini and the tech press would go [TS]

  and they did have like strokes they don't the connections because the [TS]

  resolution is so low and you know Android phones have 1920 by 1080 and [TS]

  true 1080p all this stuff that sounds like exactly the sort of thing where [TS]

  that when the tech people go into connections over the specs that sounds [TS]

  like something Apple would do well you know going past a certain dpi you're [TS]

  just wasting battery life and cost you know like once you can no longer see the [TS]

  pixels anymore there's not a lot of reason to go much past that point so [TS]

  like you know there's a believe there was a couple hundred funds came out that [TS]

  had like a 400 dpi screen yes that is way past that point where that is that [TS]

  is great for marketing for two nerds not anybody else but it's great for [TS]

  marketing to nerds but you're killing the battery on the GPU 44 no real [TS]

  benefit that people going to actually noticed you only really marketing [TS]

  towards like the birds and Engadget readers who don't want a great screen [TS]

  they want to 1080p screen right so so that's that's you know problematic so [TS]

  I'm not saying Apple doesn't have to go any further than where they are now I [TS]

  don't know where that point is but certain that point existing I'm pretty [TS]

  sure it's before 400 dpi [TS]

  and if you look at the iOS and you know hence you know you said earlier with [TS]

  like the high DPS report that tobacco is 10 hours like a hint of what's coming [TS]

  will you look at iOS and the hints of what's coming [TS]

  you see both sides you see auto layout being added in iOS 6 and I think well of [TS]

  course now they can add another [TS]

  multiple phones sized it'll be easier support which is true and then I was 7 [TS]

  comes along and it has dynamic text size [TS]

  well now they can just keep the same resolution blowing up and let users just [TS]

  text i systemwide which is also true so their support on both sides of pretty [TS]

  much equal weight you can look at the iPad Mini vs iPad air that's a huge [TS]

  example saying well they didn't like this here and it works just fine and [TS]

  nobody really complains although is the opposite direction so there's there's a [TS]

  tissue so I don't know I I think it would it would solve a lot of there a [TS]

  lot of the demand for bigger phone I think would be solved both ways and so [TS]

  they could do the easier way of saying well we'll be there but also the iPhone [TS]

  destruction major product such a major platform for developers that they could [TS]

  just go ahead and enter the size and said hey developers suck it up you know [TS]

  and if they are planning on adding two models if that actually is the truth [TS]

  whether it happens now or or we get one now and one the next cycle maybe those [TS]

  two models both have the same resolution that is higher than the current [TS]

  resolution right pics ok so maybe that's how they do it maybe they they add a [TS]

  higher resolution than what we have now and they apply that same resolution to [TS]

  both of those new models one size bigger than the other so maybe that's how it's [TS]

  done [TS]

  the iPhone again it's a bigger far they can go all these different ways one [TS]

  thing I want to mention also I read this email for the show I got an email from a [TS]

  reader I haven't gotten permission to use his name yet for now but he he [TS]

  pointed out that you know a lot of the arguments that that you and I have both [TS]

  fielded along with other people is like [TS]

  well they can just take one of these screens they're making and you know as [TS]

  the penalty manufactured just cut them to different sizes and to make a new [TS]

  size screen of the same dpi but as a reader pointed out that's kinda weak [TS]

  because historically they haven't really done that because a lot of times when [TS]

  they change when they bring an old screen density to a new size the change [TS]

  the screen technology to so he pointed out that the 3G S had had a TN display [TS]

  and iPad Mini was IPS so that that broke completely and I'm like you know there's [TS]

  some of them had different substrates like some of them would be LTPS some of [TS]

  them will be exact amorphous silicon for someone like you know that there's all [TS]

  these different technologies that are being chains also so the iPhone 5 and 5s [TS]

  while they are at 332 dpi the same dpi is the iPad Mini the iPhones have full [TS]

  RGB spectrum and they have that thing where their fused to the glass which is [TS]

  different than the cutting the thing but there you know I don't know the point is [TS]

  like all the stuff is different enough as as technology progresses as a screen [TS]

  technology gets better and and changes and gets lower power and more colors and [TS]

  everything else the likelihood of them like cutting the same panels 22222 [TS]

  franchises for two very different products especially across a couple of [TS]

  years [TS]

  becomes pretty small and so it like if they're going to retool everything [TS]

  anyway or use a different process anyway then they can change dpi stew so I don't [TS]

  think we need to put too much weight in 2000 they can just multiply this dpi [TS]

  into this technology I would say it not so much that it's any kind of [TS]

  manufacturing convenience [TS]

  but just that they've done it because they've done it with the iPad and [TS]

  because the math works out pretty clearly that the 264 pixels per inch [TS]

  resolution of the iPad air and iPhone would be four point nine inches which is [TS]

  noticeably not humongous not you know absurd it's right in line with a lot of [TS]

  you know market-leading Android phones but noticeably bigger than the iPhone's [TS]

  we have today [TS]

  yeah it would put it solidly into the large screen phone category and it would [TS]

  be able to hold itself there for a long time but it wouldn't put it into the [TS]

  lake [TS]

  make fun of you ridiculously big table in your face categorized especially with [TS]

  the ground that already been broken by Android phones exactly right and and I [TS]

  know other people when I brothers are often said that if you go by the math [TS]

  that Steve Jobs used when he introduced the original Retina Display about how [TS]

  far people hold their phones from their eyes and that they called the iPad [TS]

  errors screen right now because you hold it further than you do a phone and it [TS]

  wouldn't 264 pixels per inch weren't counted renner you know what if they [TS]

  call that one runner they would call this one that's why redness such a [TS]

  beautiful marketing bullshit term it means whatever they ran nerds like us [TS]

  over analyze that do that math right you know who doesn't care at all about that [TS]

  math Apple right they don't give a crap they will call you know if it's if it's [TS]

  just under that threshold but it's pretty close they'll call that you know [TS]

  it doesn't it doesn't need to be back if you're using that to X right resources [TS]

  and point is equal to 4 actual pixels that's right thing to do with how far [TS]

  you hold your fire phone from your eyes and and whether you can point you can [TS]

  discern pixels yeah I would say that the pixel distance thing is really a [TS]

  guideline maybe you know it's it's general category it's not set in stone [TS]

  so here's the one thing i i i do think though that introducing the second [TS]

  iPhone size it it it raises the big question to me is let's say it it's true [TS]

  that they're going to release one this year which i think is a lot more likely [TS]

  than two because with two I do not understand how they say that how how [TS]

  they tell a story that this makes any sense you know that there's two bigger [TS]

  iPhones but if they release one and it's roughly five inches dying give or take [TS]

  maybe a little more than a little less do they [TS]

  is that the one and only new iPhone top of the line and the four-inch is [TS]

  relegated to the second tier currently occupied by the five see or do they do [TS]

  it like the iPad where there's two sizes both top of the line there would be a [TS]

  new call it the iPhone sex for lack of a better word or they're going to be too [TS]

  like an iPhone 6 and iPhone 6 many I don't think those are the words they [TS]

  would use iPhone 6 plus sized but just to put it in the context of the iPad so [TS]

  that your clear which 1 I'm talking about they could I don't think that's [TS]

  ridiculous and honestly it's what I hope they would do because I think I would [TS]

  answer your question from 10 minutes ago I think I would still prefer the smaller [TS]

  one especially if it's the same pixels display it if it's the same pixel count [TS]

  I'm almost certain I want the smaller physical device if they make a new one [TS]

  with you know a lot more pixels I might have to see I made I might have to [TS]

  withhold judgment until I see what I can I can better imagine 1136 by 640 [TS]

  five-inch iPhone and I would just rather small one but I i [TS]

  if they only come out with one with new suspects in a new camera and a new aids [TS]

  CPU and its five inches I think I'm going to be happy to hear something big [TS]

  to consider with the iPhone has gone so far and with with all Apple product [TS]

  lines really they very rarely give themselves or given permission by the [TS]

  market to make things bigger heavier so you know the iPad 3 [TS]

  was an exception and they can get panned for it [TS]

  the MacBook Pro got heavier one point but the content of a pound but for the [TS]

  most part things get smaller and thinner and lighter and so the iPhone 4 inclined [TS]

  doesn't really have permission to ever get thicker but if they had the separate [TS]

  size that they're starting fresh water as they launched a bigger iPhone that [TS]

  not only has a bigger screen but is like 20 percent or 15 percent thicker and [TS]

  that allows them to put in a substantially nicer camera and a [TS]

  substantially longer life battery that's more tempting but I also know it also [TS]

  sounds more like that [TS]

  wanting them to build for us and not for the mass market ok sure look at the mass [TS]

  market and how many of those people have this is the primary camera and care [TS]

  about the quality of that camera and having this people have these giant [TS]

  battery cases on their phones making the phones big ugly anyway you know and [TS]

  Apple would be able to make it better as they have less casing to add around I [TS]

  don't think most people you see with cases of battery battery cases are still [TS]

  fairly rare but you're right regular big ugly [TS]

  make the thing a lot thicker and ungainly that it really is naked cases [TS]

  are being clearly you know most iPhones are in a case seems I think I think if [TS]

  Apple created a second phone size and they give themselves permission to make [TS]

  that phone size thicker than they could make us a really really nice phone and [TS]

  it wouldn't you know and they they could still have the film maybe they would [TS]

  even rename the forums on the iPhone air who cares doesn't matter whatever it is [TS]

  they could advertise that is being still super thin one they might even make it [TS]

  even thinner [TS]

  it wouldn't have to necessarily have the highest and camera module and many more [TS]

  and even if they keep the process of the same you know if if there if there's an [TS]

  iPhone 64 inch and iPhone 6 almost five inch and they both have the same CPU [TS]

  same RAM same GPU even the same screen pixels but the bigger one has a bigger [TS]

  battery and nicer camera that's a really compelling phone and that's that's to [TS]

  really compelling phones they have the small one for people who want the small [TS]

  size will always have the small size and don't want to go bigger and they have [TS]

  the big 12 address all those new people plus take some of those old people up [TS]

  alright hold that thought cuz that's a good place to pick by color me take a [TS]

  break here in the second sponsor and it's our good friends at media temple [TS]

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  saying what if they give themselves permission to put a bigger battery in [TS]

  thicker and better camera in there that's interesting but it wouldn't have [TS]

  to be like super thick right but it is having like 10 or 15 percent more [TS]

  thickness would would go a long way for those two things very different though [TS]

  than what they've done with the iPad but maybe phones are different than so [TS]

  different that iPad that it's not you know it would be the opposite things [TS]

  right that they would choose choice between the two iPads 'as you really [TS]

  only have to choose between size you want a smaller device or do you want a [TS]

  bigger screen I think that's more like in my gut that tells me what they would [TS]

  do with the iPhone but your ideas definitely tempting and it would your [TS]

  idea makes it tough decision for me where is my idea makes it easy decision [TS]

  I'd still want the smaller but I think if they made a larger one they would [TS]

  want to be the higher end one maybe two hundred bucks more either way you [TS]

  wouldn't want to be the better model so Greg Naus tweeted this week that a [TS]

  standard [TS]

  business card is almost exactly the same size as an iPhone 5 5s display [TS]

  business card is almost exactly the same size as an iPhone 5 5s display [TS]

  and I don't notice that before credit cards are roughly the same size too well [TS]

  I took a business card on my desk and covered the screen to try it and it's [TS]

  it's true it's almost it went closer than credit card business card to take a [TS]

  business card all that really matters on the iPhone is the screen really I mean [TS]

  and I West sort of depends on when I really as it stands today depends on the [TS]

  home center and it has the the fingerprint thing which is a big deal [TS]

  now but if you hold a business card in your hand and pretend to phone its [TS]

  phenomenally smaller than an iPhone 5s just as a thing and so in theory just to [TS]

  show the same amount of information at the same physical size the minimum you [TS]

  know you you could make some kind of futuristic sci-fi movie gadget that an [TS]

  iPhone that's the size of a business card you have to do something different [TS]

  you have to replace with the home you know the home button somehow put it on [TS]

  the back put it on the side I don't know just what I'm just saying there's room [TS]

  for the iPhone to get a lot smaller without shrinking the display size which [TS]

  is what that we put in my head that if you know what I call the chin and [TS]

  forehead on the iPhone could have significant room to shrink in if they [TS]

  capped a sort of iPad style you know that you know the way the Dead two iPads [TS]

  today look like Big Brother Little Brother of the exact same design if they [TS]

  did this and had significantly smaller [TS]

  chin and forehead only found the big iPhone may not be all that big compared [TS]

  to what we're thinking today based on the chin and forehead size of all the [TS]

  iPhones today but the display would be bigger and the four-inch display one if [TS]

  they still make them could be smaller not just thinner but it could shrink the [TS]

  other way and sort of come down in size to like what a lot of cell phones used [TS]

  to be before the smartphone era actually it's already pretty close [TS]

  honestly it's very pretty close to that threshold even like the iPhone 5s [TS]

  looking at my desk Lee if you compare this to a Motorola RAZR it's even even [TS]

  though that one came after the reason it was a great honor to it actually not [TS]

  that much larger its I think it's even thinner but I think harvard design wise [TS]

  there certainly love luxuries to the design they have now where they they [TS]

  have by having that nice Shannon and forehead area they have room to put [TS]

  components that need as much data as possible including things like the [TS]

  camera probably the biggest and least flexible one but you also the home [TS]

  button has metal space there the connector the speakers the ear pieces [TS]

  like all these things they have the most of the camera things that like that you [TS]

  can't make dinner without making them a lot worse so it seems weird to me that [TS]

  so many nobody else I should say no but I'm sure there's some Android phone does [TS]

  it but it seems like most Android phones put the camera on the back about where [TS]

  the Apple logo is on iPhones I don't think that's true is it i mean i i dont [TS]

  usually it's like centered in like a big blob but I think he was on the top right [TS]

  think if you take a look around at where they are a lot of them it's it's in [TS]

  front it's low enough that it's on the other side of the display whereas the [TS]

  iPhone's camera is clearly [TS]

  not backed by the display right which i think you know it lets the center go as [TS]

  far back as the glass write what you know so it it needs that you know it to [TS]

  make the best cameras as a possible you too much depth as you're going to allow [TS]

  and and that's that's what you get it and so that's a good point you know they [TS]

  they might go make it smaller like that but like one big question would be what [TS]

  what happens to the home button that right now the home button the home [TS]

  button is crammed in there and the whole I don't see them making once a [TS]

  symmetrical that have a smaller chin and forehead or vice versa so I think their [TS]

  appearance wise they're gonna keep that symmetry going but if you make them any [TS]

  shorter than the home button becomes a problem when you have to make it smaller [TS]

  or move it somewhere else like you know there have been always rumors maybe [TS]

  would be on the back with the touch sensor or something like that but it [TS]

  sounds that are kinda sucks I think it doesn't sound good I'm guessing that's [TS]

  unlikely so I don't know why I think the way to have it now with these [TS]

  proportions [TS]

  gives them the luxury crammed in a whole bunch of big stuff in a place that is [TS]

  not damaged by the screen or or that needs access you know either talks [TS]

  access at the home button or the needs of you access at the front camera [TS]

  liggett's [TS]

  you know you can make heaven looks through a screen but the kind of sucks [TS]

  in this kind of not mature enough to really do well yet so you know it's on [TS]

  how could I think we're gonna have this basic design for a while so I have [TS]

  googled some images take a samsung galaxy s for the camera is not as low as [TS]

  I was saying it's not quite as low as the Apple logo that they have a Samsung [TS]

  logo there but its lower it's not up in the top it's clearly I think if you flip [TS]

  that around the other side it's still backed by the display but they also have [TS]

  the whole thing is in like Nepal it's raised right to make it further away [TS]

  way I don't really see Apple doing that either unless they switched to a plastic [TS]

  bag even that doesn't seem like Apple style yeah I don't have the raised area [TS]

  I think I don't see that happening no I think that they I think it's so gross [TS]

  design that they you know I don't even think it really can I think they would [TS]

  make the whole phone before doing that [TS]

  yeah I agree and I think that when the that the problem they pose to their [TS]

  camera team starts with were gonna make it device this thick and you can't make [TS]

  you can't make the land stick out at all [TS]

  go exactly right I really do think that's where it starts when they pose [TS]

  the problem to the camera team on the iPhone here's out think it's going to be [TS]

  or how that it has to be you don't get to raise that lands at all [TS]

  you can't even just have the glass dick I i just brought up the smaller things [TS]

  just because to me now because it makes all the sense in again like you do [TS]

  something with them and there's a lot of my my loose idea here is a lot of you [TS]

  know somehow you somehow you find an alternative to them [TS]

  I all I bring it up is is that with everybody say Apple has to do a bigger [TS]

  iPhone has to do a bigger iPhone going out of business if they don't do a [TS]

  bigger iPhone that now there's rumors of a bigger iPhone Apple doing a smaller [TS]

  iPhone now to me it seems like a Napoli thing to do but maybe the long side a [TS]

  bigger one [TS]

  yeah I mean I don't is there really a lot of demand and you know this is not [TS]

  the stop them before another these two men would be created but is there really [TS]

  a lot of demand for the iPhone to get substantially smaller than what it is [TS]

  right now she know but that's not that doesn't mean people wouldn't want it if [TS]

  they were right it's because the sort of thing that the tech press wouldn't be [TS]

  calling for and the people who would if it were if if it existed who would get [TS]

  in line to buy it didn't think to ask for it right but you know and people [TS]

  people have said this before so this is not a new insight but never really is [TS]

  but you know the phone for being pushed to be small and to be as small as [TS]

  possible it was because I didn't do that much all they had to do really was have [TS]

  a dial pad maybe have some texting ability and that was about it now tho [TS]

  phones are pocket computers even for normal people who are not total nerds [TS]

  like us and so normal computers of people like having a nice sized screen [TS]

  it doesn't have to be huge but people are having a nice ice cream and it [TS]

  really does affect how good the phone is in usage if you have a nice big screen [TS]

  or at least most mediums screen to be able to view photos bigger view you know [TS]

  read things it with bigger text watch movies bigger like all these things that [TS]

  have now become very common things people do with their phones I don't [TS]

  think there's as much of a push to get them smaller well now people do so many [TS]

  things that I had a right and a good way to put that too is to go right back to [TS]

  that business card analogy rain and and as anybody's ever done print design you [TS]

  know if you've ever design business cards it's a fun little challenge [TS]

  because it's a small canvas there's not too much information you need to get on [TS]

  but it's very limiting because it's so physically small you can't put too much [TS]

  on and if you think about it like you would never buy book printed on business [TS]

  cards for business card size paper but yet we read books on our iPhones right i [TS]

  mean magazines you know whatever you want to call stuff like during firebomb [TS]

  archive.org there's no print analogy to about you reading articles nobody read [TS]

  articles before smartphones on business card size publications it's ridiculously [TS]

  small form factor for reading by the pool of print and like I ran my numbers [TS]

  the other day thirty-one percent of my page views come from smartphones now not [TS]

  even including tablets have a different set of another 17% 31% are on [TS]

  smartphones that's crazy [TS]

  this is how quickly people are shifting their entire computing lives onto [TS]

  smartphones so you know that's why I speculate that if they ever do a smaller [TS]

  iPhone that smaller in any way dinner it would not involve a smaller display like [TS]

  I don't think we'll ever see an iPhone with a smaller than four-inch sixteen by [TS]

  nine display yeah I think it would only be about shrinking it and other ways [TS]

  too much room left on the sides chin and forehead in theory could shrink but yeah [TS]

  and you can see like with the iPod Touch they can make it thinner and have the [TS]

  size screen yeah but you you give up a lot of battery for that you give up some [TS]

  of the some of the things inside you give up a lot of the camera quality so [TS]

  it you know there's you can make it thinner but you might not want the [TS]

  resulting device spending on what you value in in the iPhone but and 11 big [TS]

  thing to consider for the for the large phone though and why this might sell so [TS]

  well might be so important why I would almost certainly buy one is because so [TS]

  many people and this is especially true in Asia don't usually buy separate [TS]

  tablets and phones I usually you can almost guarantee that almost anybody who [TS]

  has a computer near enough money to to buy smartphones will almost certainly by [TS]

  smartphone of some sort these days it's very rare that people who who can and [TS]

  want to have a smartphone don't but a tablet is still very much optional for a [TS]

  lot of people I might even go as far as to say most people at Apple to still [TS]

  considered optional luxury and so so many people choose to just have a [TS]

  smartphone and not get a tablet and you know I'm kind of leaning that way you [TS]

  know not not know I wouldn't have an iPad XII develop for this platform and I [TS]

  am I'm into it enough to get one but every iPad i get if i myself using it [TS]

  less and less and I i talked to you actually months ago with the retina many [TS]

  coming out saying maybe that'll change it because you know the right now many [TS]

  kind of ruined the iPad for me at the end of the first many had ruined in [TS]

  practice it hasn't really come to pass I I still use a pretty lightly used more [TS]

  but it's still pretty light I would much rather just have a bigger phone and that [TS]

  sound you know based on sales especially in Asia of his big phones it seems like [TS]

  that's a pretty common [TS]

  position to take ya a bad bet that if it sounds right to me and IT jobs with some [TS]

  of the anecdotal stuff I've heard from people on Twitter and email [TS]

  readers send me that it's it's a stupid word anything killer is usually not an [TS]

  actual killer the thing but in some sense it's a it's an iPad Mini killer [TS]

  not that it might even hurt iPad Mini sales but that for some number of people [TS]

  they'd be happier with just a bigger iPhone and no iPad then smaller iPhone [TS]

  and iPad Mini and iPad here I would even say like if if a big enough iPhone comes [TS]

  out and is is good enough for me to get then I'm even switch back to the bigger [TS]

  iPad like I might go back to their size and then only upgrade like every three [TS]

  years maybe every every two years rather than getting a new one every year just [TS]

  because I would use it so much more lightly I would be more likely to use [TS]

  leave that one like at home next to the bed or something I'll use it in bed [TS]

  before going to sleep at night to read some stuff or browse magazines or near [TS]

  time something I could see myself doing that rather than having this many that I [TS]

  think I'm gonna carry around but in reality I usually don't doesn't fit in [TS]

  my pocket and you know it's it's kind of weird middle portability class where the [TS]

  smartphone is my primary portable it I always have in my pocket and there's a [TS]

  reason why his big screen phone celebrate the idea of making your [TS]

  primary pocket computer a little bigger a little bit better [TS]

  is really attractive I would almost certainly get any big phone they make [TS]

  right I think it's basically about making a display that more suitable to [TS]

  long form music whether you're reading something wrong or watching the movie or [TS]

  a TV show or some kind of long video or something but more about long form music [TS]

  glantz right like just turning on your phone and turning this plan to check the [TS]

  weather doesn't really matter what sizes is really want to say by one of the [TS]

  things I have a note that I wrote myself a half an hour ago you had mentioned [TS]

  reading the cues from a poor and in hindsight another change and iOS 7 which [TS]

  I think clearly could be a hint that they're going for a bigger display is [TS]

  the standard system wide from the left side to go back right back button [TS]

  because the back button is up at the top left and if you're right-handed holding [TS]

  the phone in your right hand I mean even with the iPhone 5 in five acts which [TS]

  went from three and a half to four inches that button got harder to hit I [TS]

  think noticeably so and we're you know we're talking about a four point eight [TS]

  inch at the smallest as a bigger iPhone it effectively becomes not unreachable [TS]

  because you can contort to do it but it you know practically speaking it's not [TS]

  that good and i think that that back button one of the single biggest things [TS]

  that makes a bigger iPhone less usable one-handed whereas just coming over from [TS]

  the left is a lot more can be sure you can do it you can do it no matter how [TS]

  you have reform group terrain in that's another [TS]

  that's that's another one of those things where I feel like if they do come [TS]

  out with a bigger iPhone this year and it's hard to get the back button [TS]

  everybody will say well that's why a year ago they should I was seven with [TS]

  this system I'd come in from the left it go back very well could be i mean that's [TS]

  just not good in general so we could just been the head right that's a family [TS]

  like they they have hence going all different race most of the hands [TS]

  indicate that they at least are adding flexibility you know they're they're [TS]

  adding the ability to swipe it this way or hit the back button they've added [TS]

  auto layout so it could be this size or it could be a different size and it's [TS]

  easier to adapt they've added automatic text resizing systemwide so that you [TS]

  could scale to a different side of you want to bet on physical size are your [TS]

  own preference or whatever else so they've added all of these different [TS]

  doors that they could walk through to you know it's like it's like Lost Season [TS]

  3 when they had like fifteen new characters used to open up all these [TS]

  different doors they could use maybe in the future so this is like this is [TS]

  apples saying you know we we could do any of these things and we as the [TS]

  customers are not going to know why didn't these things until we see some [TS]

  hard worker and even then it might be Vegas too was just because of this it [TS]

  was because it was a good idea [TS]

  alright so this makes some predictions do you think Apple is gonna come out [TS]

  with at least one bigger screen iPhone this year [TS]

  yeah sure I think they're gonna do it certainly sometime soon [TS]

  this year as good as any I I would have guessed last year I did just last year [TS]

  and I was wrong but sure why not this year and do you think they'll do too I [TS]

  don't see that happening [TS]

  doesn't make any sense to me at least not in the same year maybe let alone [TS]

  something sometime later but I think I think the only if is the question I [TS]

  posed earlier is [TS]

  if they come out with a new bigger screen iPhone do they still keep the [TS]

  foreign size as a secondary secondary wanna say that but as a second top two [TS]

  years back [TS]

  choice really is there a new foreign phone also that's good because I think [TS]

  that alone is a tough marketing problem I don't know why it somehow I guess what [TS]

  I think is a maybe I'm biased and wrong that I just think I like the smaller [TS]

  size and then I'd be bothered by the bigger physical gadget of a five-inch [TS]

  iPhone but I do I do believe that I do believe that all things considered I'd [TS]

  rather keep the phone their sizes is now four pocket ability and the way it feels [TS]

  in my hand but I worry that from a marketing perspective that if Apple [TS]

  believes that too that most iPhone users are better served with the device as it [TS]

  stands today size wise but that it might run into the buying a TV in a big box [TS]

  store problem where I've discussed this before I know Syracuse as but where are [TS]

  you going to BestBuy and the TVs all have their brightness and saturation [TS]

  turned way up to absurd levels because when you're looking at them side-by-side [TS]

  for us in lit big box store the one that jumps out to use the one that has the [TS]

  most saturated brightest colors even know that's not actually the truest [TS]

  display and it cracked skin tones and you wouldn't even if you buy that model [TS]

  TV said you would want to configure the way they have in the store but it just [TS]

  means that you're not you're not making an informed decision you're you're [TS]

  making a decision based on the context of the store [TS]

  and that likewise with let's say a break to iPhone sixes 14 inch or 15 inch [TS]

  people go in the store and they see the bigger one and they think bigger is [TS]

  better and they buy the bigger one but it's actually a mistake because they [TS]

  actually would have been happier with the one that was smaller and fitted [TS]

  jeans pocket better in Finland and better and that Apple that's the sort of [TS]

  problem that a poor has solved for us over the years by they go through in the [TS]

  lab and figure out this is better and we're not gonna let you make that [TS]

  mistake we're gonna do what's best for most users even though they're admitting [TS]

  that there's always some users who really would be happier with the big you [TS]

  know looking looking at CII have I have a very nice scientific example here [TS]

  because I'm such a nerd that I have the iPhone rectangle clearly outlined on my [TS]

  jeans pocket and so I can look down on I can see exactly how big the iPhone is [TS]

  when it's in my pocket and how much bigger the pocket is on the phone and [TS]

  there's a lot of leeway there like they if they add by having each dimension of [TS]

  the phone to accommodate that big screen or whatever it would be no its not [TS]

  talking about in like four inches you're talking about in like less than an inch [TS]

  TX to mention I think that still fits just fine I think I think we're talking [TS]

  about it we're making a big deal out of this and it would make the screen a lot [TS]

  bigger but we're still talking about or device that's still small pockets and I [TS]

  think there's a lot of leeway there [TS]

  well do you think that they would still keep the smaller one around as a new [TS]

  device or do you think the only top of the line would be the new business I [TS]

  would not make a prediction on that either way I i give like a 50 50 chance [TS]

  you know I guess I could see them going either way [TS]

  think about how hard they admitted today with the quarterly results that they [TS]

  forecast 25 C vs 5s demand which was a lot easier to predict in my opinion than [TS]

  this if they were both the same specs I think it really depends on what the [TS]

  differences would be like if if you only get it if they pull an iPad and the only [TS]

  difference is the size I'd say there's a lot less reason for them to keep both [TS]

  but if they if they if they segmented in different ways if they give the bigger [TS]

  one [TS]

  a bigger battery a better camera you know if they if they make it better in [TS]

  in Easley marketable ways I can see the charging a hundred bucks more for it and [TS]

  that becomes a new high-end model a new way to get a little better margins that [TS]

  are their most profitable line you know as they have to shower as if you shift [TS]

  lower and other lines here to keep the margins up so I can see them at a high [TS]

  end we want to call it that they wouldn't call it the iPhone pro but it's [TS]

  sort of what you're talking about right yeah yeah I wouldn't call it that but it [TS]

  is it would be like the Mac Pro two min maybe less extreme than the new Mac Pro [TS]

  is the most extreme but but it's in that destroyed in that direction though right [TS]

  the stuff you're talking about bigger battery in [TS]

  even better camera right you know you almost almost what they did this year [TS]

  this year with the 55 °c at 55 °c but shifting up its shipping it down you [TS]

  know and and I bet as we see as we saw how much better the 5s on the fights [TS]

  even against Apple's own predictions I think a lot of people want these [TS]

  upgrades and I bet you know but certain the price would turn off some people but [TS]

  if they charge 200 bucks more for this I bet they'd sell a ton of them I do think [TS]

  it makes sense for certain gaps to existing display size continue so for [TS]

  example with Max there's 11 inch 13 inch 15 age there used to be a 17 inch and [TS]

  that made some some sense but you can kinda see why they put it to pasture but [TS]

  then there is nothing until you get to 24 age with the smaller iMac and it kind [TS]

  of makes sense that there is nothing in between [TS]

  right other than the possible room for a 17 inch but you definitely a 17 inch [TS]

  MacBook was so big [TS]

  clearly you'd never wanna MacBook for mass production that was bigger than [TS]

  that there's a 19 inch MacBook Pro makes assets and given the affordability of a [TS]

  24 inch iMac it doesn't really make sense for Apple to still make 28 1 inch [TS]

  iMacs or going even smaller like a 17 inch iMac that gap makes sense there's [TS]

  no reason for a Mac to have a display in between when you look at the current [TS]

  iPhone compared to the iPad Mini which is the next step up [TS]

  it does seem like there's there's a market for at least one device in [TS]

  between oh yeah especially you know when you start considering how many people [TS]

  are only a pic small but they're not going to so many people are not going to [TS]

  ever have an iPad they they might have an iPhone and there's so many times [TS]

  where you don't have that iPad with you but you have your phone [TS]

  something that still fits in a pants pocket and fits in a very small handbag [TS]

  that carry that iPad Mini stills is way too big [TS]

  great if you want to put your pants pocket you know parachute pants did get [TS]

  an iPad Mini vs [TS]

  if it's like in my my biggest winter jackets it fits in the coat pocket you [TS]

  know that's it at the only the largest pilot to have a you get to eat a bottle [TS]

  of soda in there if you want to you can you do every time use shoplift all the [TS]

  time i doing a lot of soda speciality leaders and that I can fit in that but [TS]

  nothing else I we're so like most of the year i cant transparently carry an iPad [TS]

  you know so I so I don't so it sits at home I hardly ever use it and so unless [TS]

  happy with it then I would be iPhone I would I would use the crap out of a big [TS]

  screen iPhone soyuz the crap out of any iPhone I have talked myself into I still [TS]

  think I'd prefer the smaller one but I slowly but surely talking myself into [TS]

  the market since available to him and we'll see if I'm right and they make it [TS]

  a little bit thicker and put a better camera in there you'll get that no [TS]

  question that would really help design you know there's things I really care [TS]

  about me because I still buy you know actual camera captures [TS]

  so I mean I'm definitely willing to sacrifice something for superior camera [TS]

  right we have a little bit more talked about before we wrap up this short show [TS]

  but let me take a break and thank our sponsors and our good old friends at [TS]

  Squarespace you know Squarespace there the all-in-one hosting service that you [TS]

  can do it all right there from Squarespace you can do a blog you can do [TS]

  it online portfolio you can do a store and they'll handle the e-commerce for [TS]

  you they have dozens award-winning responsive mobile ready templates that [TS]

  you can pick their ready to go look great [TS]

  get online tools that let you tweak by drag-and-drop take this in put this out [TS]

  over or and I'm sure this makes a lot of sense to people who listen to this show [TS]

  you can get right in there with the code and you can modify the code you can [TS]

  modify little you want to add it's a javascript injections of your own to to [TS]

  do a little bit you can do that really you can tweak it at any level 1 and [TS]

  build the website that you did they have a ward winning 24 7 customer support [TS]

  staff writer New York see which is code speak for their Americans [TS]

  but they're great they're always there they say 24 7 and they mean it they're [TS]

  always there here's the code you go there [TS]

  use this offer code is no more funny URLs just got a square space.com the [TS]

  offer code [TS]

  for this show this month as Vesper they're doing a thing whether given [TS]

  different codes out and they are not just let them know you're coming from [TS]

  the show it's that did which month coming from the sponsor read for a no on [TS]

  your show that they used Marco is a code [TS]

  even though you have two other co-hosts so I think they're trying to be cute it [TS]

  makes it memorable [TS]

  that way tomorrow you're listening today tomorrow is the day you're gonna go [TS]

  you're like I'm doing and I'm gonna sign up for Squarespace cause I want to set [TS]

  up my online store what was that code that group you'll remember it has it the [TS]

  show really has nothing to do with this paper but that's the code it just goes [TS]

  to show you that the people that's where space really listen to these shows in [TS]

  know what the hell is going on with what I'm up to show my thanks to Squarespace [TS]

  for once again sponsoring the show great great great supporter of the show and [TS]

  many others go check them out if you have a website right here is the last [TS]

  thing with my idea which I do I'm starting to think is wishful thinking my [TS]

  idea is adding any keep this more iPhone size around with top tier specs because [TS]

  I want small device love my stuff small [TS]

  I do I still don't see how they price the two devices that that's a tough call [TS]

  right because with the iPad bigger better somehow and bigger and more [TS]

  expensive and bigger you know the bigger MacBook is always 13 inches more than [TS]

  the 11 to 15 inch MacBook Pro is more than thirteen the 27 inch iMac is cost [TS]

  more than the 24 inch iMac is bigger displays cost more but at a certain [TS]

  point miniaturisation is that you know it's more expensive you know that bigger [TS]

  is it really what you're paying for and depending on what the pixel count is you [TS]

  know if the pixel count is exactly the same on the bigger iPhone then maybe [TS]

  that display isn't more expensive maybe the one that dancers more expensive I am [TS]

  not quite sure how that goes and then just plain old marketing guys how does [TS]

  that how does that sit to me it makes it such a hot I can't figure out how they [TS]

  would price two new iPhones with improved specs a guy I think it's very [TS]

  clear that the mid-priced iPhone next year is going to be and I you know the [TS]

  equivalent of an iPhone 5 that I don't know if they're going to put in plastic [TS]

  25 see again but you know the whole take last year's top of the iPhone top of the [TS]

  line iPhone move it down one click on the product here so I might I definitely [TS]

  think they will be selling iPhone 4 and iPhone for at least two more years as [TS]

  the 5s you know basic tech model moves down the product line but will they have [TS]

  a new top of the line 184 I don't know how they would prices if they did I [TS]

  really don't can't see them I can't see them introducing two phones at the same [TS]

  price that have different sized screens just seems weird yeah tough call and I [TS]

  wouldn't put too much weight into the iPad example because we don't get this [TS]

  is this is the first time that now at the retina many and the iPad air this is [TS]

  the first time we have pretty much the same hardware [TS]

  r it in two different sizes the two different very different price points so [TS]

  it's very possible you know maybe a hundred bucks right the difference [TS]

  yeah 400 bucks yeah who cares terrible 300 bucks I think the minis overall I [TS]

  bet there outselling the big iPads I don't know if we have a confirmed from [TS]

  the actual data but I was certainly the case where these three close it could be [TS]

  that the smaller many with almost no noticeable downsides might be really [TS]

  eating into the sales of the big one or it could be that people will pay for a [TS]

  bigger screen and nothing else and so the big ones still selling great either [TS]

  way I think the condition that we have now every have those two have had to the [TS]

  technical hardware with only a screen size and a hundred book price difference [TS]

  I think we've had that for such a short time that neither we nor Apple have much [TS]

  of an idea of whether the behavior this exhibit there will continue on in the [TS]

  future for longer than just this year you know so they might do the same thing [TS]

  with the iPhone now certainly if they priced the new Big 100 bucks hire any [TS]

  interval if they priced higher than the four inch line that will impact its [TS]

  sales especially in subsidized countries where the perceived difference is much [TS]

  bigger than the actual overall difference right and i think that the [TS]

  whole subsidized thing makes the makes it all confusing anyway because yes you [TS]

  know if it's actually $100 more likely unsubsidized price is $100 who knows [TS]

  what the difference would be subsidized you know subsidizes its distorts the [TS]

  cost of an iPhone so profoundly right so you know who knows I think [TS]

  and one possibility to visit maybe maybe they they they dropped the price of the [TS]

  new small one down to that hundred our spot right into the $200 bond that's [TS]

  possible but it's it's a stretch but they feel like they risked serious [TS]

  nosedive in iPhone average selling price which has been super consistent I know I [TS]

  think I got it from from Horace before the show where two years in a row for [TS]

  the holiday quarter the average selling price of an iPhone has dropped by like [TS]

  five or six dollars from like five or so 6:38 to 632 to this year's 627 could be [TS]

  off I don't have notes but it's something like that but very pretty good [TS]

  compared especially compared to the market as a whole [TS]

  where it's sort of gotten commoditized very quickly you know in the end right [TS]

  side whereas if they drop if they keep the forums phone its top tier and drop [TS]

  it by a hundred bucks you know they could and you know it turns out that [TS]

  most people even with the choice between the two still pick before you know [TS]

  average selling price really drops yeah I don't know I i think i mean maybe [TS]

  maybe that maybe the pricing issues alone would be enough of a reason not to [TS]

  keep the Forex eyes getting up to your parts inside but on the other hand there [TS]

  you know like the iPod evolved over the last decade [TS]

  they weren't too sensitive about protecting prices and we're a little bit [TS]

  more on this side of you know pushing prices lower and you know as components [TS]

  got cheaper and stuff like that you know they didn't try to keep the iPod as a [TS]

  $399 product you know $3.99 for a couple of years at the beginning but then they [TS]

  quickly pushed it to new price point so they could you know could be that it's [TS]

  time to do that with the iPhone and you know famous last words make it up and [TS]

  quietly yeah I mean I really don't know I think it's anyone's guess I like it [TS]

  you could you can pick any of these outcomes and I can make a case for it [TS]

  Business Insider has a are good friends they're totally non sensational there [TS]

  carol is right there chart of the day today is the average selling price of [TS]

  iPad 2 knows dies and that's it has gone down though it's it's year over year [TS]

  it's down like thirteen percent to know that countries in those days and I'm not [TS]

  reading the actual numbers you're reading this from their charge but [TS]

  starting in Q ten Q two of 2010 the average selling price of an iPad was 660 [TS]

  670 went up a little then started going back down below 600 and it was right [TS]

  around 600 in queue 1 2011 which would have been [TS]

  holiday quarter first holiday quarter for the iPad it dropped to six hundred [TS]

  even then it went up to 650 that was when they introduced the iPad 2 and then [TS]

  ever since then it's gone steadily down and for the quarter they just completed [TS]

  it dropped below 500 for the first time and it was at 467 so I think that tells [TS]

  you a lot if if the average is under 500 I think the Mini is clearly taking a big [TS]

  chunk of the sales and I don't know I don't think that they're disappointed by [TS]

  that I mean the only other possibility is that they're sold a lot of and I [TS]

  wonder maybe it is maybe they sold a ton of the non retina iPad Mini just because [TS]

  it hit that new price point which itself is 300 is it to 99 [TS]

  329 I don't know I mean the iPad's weird example compared to the iPhone because [TS]

  the subsidies on the iPhone mess everything up and and the iPad starting [TS]

  out this new product category that at first was very hard for anyone else to [TS]

  match component price was like in the original tanks 2010 iPad I mean member [TS]

  they were other 10 ish inch tablet projects mother companies at the time [TS]

  and they could not even come close to matching the iPad on hardware specs to [TS]

  price they couldn't do it they tried and they couldn't do it and [TS]

  I mean heck even even more recently than that the tenets Microsoft Surface had [TS]

  had trouble doing it you know it in attending size with with those kind of [TS]

  special just hard to do and getting easier over time but so slow and [TS]

  disruptions are happening with the seven categories everything pushed prices down [TS]

  the market matured push prices down more from the top I think it was bound to [TS]

  happen that this new category like the average selling price of course was [TS]

  going to fall look at you know when when the MacBook Air can now the first [TS]

  MacBook Air was eating an adult and you know now you can get them 4700 like [TS]

  prices fell as technology got better until it settles into a kind of a steady [TS]

  point and so of course that was going to happen with the iPad with the iPhone we [TS]

  didn't really see that as much as I some of it but we didn't see this much [TS]

  because the subsidy pricing thing just ordered everything so you know I don't [TS]

  like if they had to sell an iPhone for 300 bucks they would find a way to do it [TS]

  wouldn't be ideal but they would find a way to do it they wouldn't have those [TS]

  great margins where the iPad because it's unsubsidized there's a lot more [TS]

  pressure like they're they're pressing matters a lot more for that volume and [TS]

  they have to sell it they have to cut the price down and of course competitors [TS]

  gonna come eat up a lot of that margin as soon as they possibly can about this [TS]

  as as as a past decisions making sense in light of future decisions sort of [TS]

  thing like what if the real point of the iPhone 5 seed coming out last year [TS]

  instead of just selling the iPhone 5 as it was at the same but the prices of the [TS]

  Phi SI [TS]

  is to set the stage for two new iPhones per year and that this year for 2014 [TS]

  there's a new I don't know what they call it let's just say they skip just [TS]

  for the sake of argument skip calling any phone that just plain iPhone 6 and [TS]

  instead they have two new phones iPhone 6 ass iPhone 6 see six see is four [TS]

  inches and maybe has some improvements even over the 5s but its four inches and [TS]

  maybe it's plastic and it still last year's phone-based yeah well yeah maybe [TS]

  I don't know what it'd be like it's still an A seven it still has the iPhone [TS]

  5s cameras yea or maybe has a better camera I don't know maybe they don't [TS]

  quite just put the five ass in the plastic maybe they do have some [TS]

  improvements but it's not quite as you know across the board but that the six [TS]

  ass would be at all and have a higher quality finish and be bigger that I [TS]

  would say that's you know it's really possible I might even say it's likely I [TS]

  mean that I can see that being the most obvious thing they would do if your [TS]

  phone that's probably how they would do it but you know it's it's hard to look [TS]

  at what they've done in the past and say that's definitely going to do in the [TS]

  future you know certain things you can be sure about you can be sure that [TS]

  they're probably not gonna like you know crammed weird stuff into an event that's [TS]

  not made for that weird stuff usually you can be sure that I kinda like tell [TS]

  you what they gonna do six months ahead of time for most products you can you [TS]

  can look at their patterns and you can make some pretty good assumptions but I [TS]

  think making any kind of assumption about you know when what is asked to [TS]

  come out how to price had marketed for something as important to the company as [TS]

  the iPhone in what is actually a pretty dynamic and shifting market of some of [TS]

  the saturation happening a lot more competition than ever before going into [TS]

  new markets especially new big markets like asia [TS]

  i think thats we can't base any of these predictions on how they've always done [TS]

  this week probably under that again I mean it that's not that strong it's too [TS]

  new and everything is shifting so fast that president doesn't matter that much [TS]

  right and I N [TS]

  Apple does not care about their own president nearly this much you know your [TS]

  Tim Cook is not saying well we can ship this new phone at this price because [TS]

  we've never done it before becoming ship one has to be they don't care that [TS]

  they're gonna do what's best for their products in their company I think [TS]

  anybody who said that like a product marketing strategy meeting at apple with [TS]

  we get like the worst like crickets response for everybody else in the room [TS]

  they'd have to write like hang your head in shame and get up and just go exactly [TS]

  like they're gonna do what's gonna make themselves most iPhones and you know [TS]

  whatever they can do to do that in a way that they don't suck like they're gonna [TS]

  try to sell the most iPhones they can without making them suck that's [TS]

  basically it and they've had this nice pattern they've done for a few years was [TS]

  not a whole lot of variation but there has been variation and you know it's [TS]

  easy to forget there has been variation when it's been called for and and I [TS]

  think they're gonna keep doing that like if they want to deviate though deviate [TS]

  period and especially when it comes to something like like if you're going to [TS]

  really launched to substantially new models you know saying the five seasons [TS]

  substantially new launch two very new models in one year that's a big change [TS]

  maybe I'll change the way you do things will change the pricing structure may be [TS]

  all you know abandon the small one for being the high end one you know that [TS]

  there's all sorts of things they could do I wouldn't even be surprised if they [TS]

  you know if it's so much in flux that that this [TS]

  pattern from just the last handful of years where iPad new iPhone September [TS]

  new iPads October if they change that up to now there's no reason this is a great [TS]

  like you said before we have seen leaks of hardware from especially from the [TS]

  phones 67 months before they come out but who knows maybe they've plug the [TS]

  leaks like is it all that ridiculous to think that we'd see a new iPhone at WWDC [TS]

  I don't think so no I think it would be a pricing yeah and I think we would [TS]

  we're gonna hear something if it's if it happens we'll hear something soon will [TS]

  start seen leaks but I wouldn't be I wouldn't protect out of the realm of [TS]

  possibility and it also makes it seem like depending on where it is on the [TS]

  high end low-end range might make it easier to introduce two phones this year [TS]

  by not doing them side-by-side I mean what if what if a new high-end phone [TS]

  comes out that still has the right is just bigger raped her phone bigger [TS]

  battery better camera same CPU [TS]

  we wouldn't be surprised if that happens in the release it in May you know [TS]

  there's they could have they want to if it makes sense there's no reason why [TS]

  they can't you know a few people would complain but you know they could do that [TS]

  if they want to they're they're they're gonna do it makes sense and because we [TS]

  don't know what is out there doing we don't really know what will make sense [TS]

  for it right which you know and like the grand scheme of things last year where [TS]

  they did the iPad 3 Retina and then six months later replaced it with the iPad [TS]

  for whatever but that did suck it sucked but you know I think they wasn't a [TS]

  mistake on their part it wasn't like it was an accident it was what they thought [TS]

  was the best for them going forward to get a retina iPad out as quick as [TS]

  possible [TS]

  and they sold a ton of them but then if this since they could make an even a [TS]

  much better one in time for the holiday season which means October they did it [TS]

  and you know if you look at their competitors in both phones and tablets a [TS]

  lot of new things twice or even more a year [TS]

  you know you don't there's no reason there's nothing nothing saying Apple has [TS]

  to only released one new phone and tablet year or even say their [TS]

  competitors do way more than every year you know once here that wants your [TS]

  Google doesn't happen about once a year the phone I don't know but i mean the [TS]

  the big enter manufacturers for Android phones are doing to three times a year [TS]

  and its and that's normal that's fine nobody really complain so well people do [TS]

  but they don't care [TS]

  nobody's really heard complaining my Galaxy S seven is now obsolete because [TS]

  the S eight came out two months later they don't care it doesn't matter they [TS]

  they do what works so you're gonna be a big one [TS]

  knowing nothing else about it except that there might be a new iPhone with a [TS]

  bigger screen and no major downsides yeah i buy it and I would say I would [TS]

  even buy it regardless of the screen resolution decision I would by the way [TS]

  what's your prediction if there's a bigger iPhone screen resolution be you [TS]

  and I would say just narrow your choices to exactly the same 1136 by 640 or a lot [TS]

  more pictures as they wouldn't just a few more pixels later not going to go [TS]

  from 640 horizontally to 720 right there if they're going to have more pixels it [TS]

  would have to be a significant increase I don't think they need to necessarily [TS]

  increase the DPI substantial I don't think so either I'm with you that I [TS]

  think more than 332 is you're just wasting battery life I really yes yes [TS]

  and reducing CPU performance was very important to them so I don't I don't [TS]

  think we need to go higher dpi so I will say they I would bet if they make larger [TS]

  phone I bet it is a higher resolution but only really two proportionally grow [TS]

  with the screen within a certain tolerance I don't think it's going to me [TS]

  and meaningfully different dpi right and the fact that that would make life [TS]

  tougher on developers is absolutely not something they would even think twice [TS]

  about well I think they would think once about it and not twice yeah I agree i [TS]

  mean the fact is if they say hey there's a new iPhone with this new size [TS]

  developers adopted will also a heart and will do it and it won't be a big deal [TS]

  just like supporting the iPhone 5 against the iPhone four right [TS]

  like it was a new screen size and it was a little easier cuz it was only bigger [TS]

  one dimension but it was still a new size we have to support and we still to [TS]

  support both and it's no big deal with auto layout it's just it's so much [TS]

  easier and the move away from like like pixel by pixel painted textures over the [TS]

  whole attitude towards the iPhone set the iOS 7 style makes it even easier to [TS]

  make flexible apps that can work in a variety of resolutions I don't I really [TS]

  don't think that that the developer [TS]

  burden would be a major concern good point that's when they heard about Iowa [TS]

  72 was you know somebody at Apple that it was partially just what they think is [TS]

  best and that they really do they think it is a great design but that it was [TS]

  also partially you know it was not just meant to be here is a new look for 2013 [TS]

  it was the new look for the next five years going forward and its informed [TS]

  somewhat by what they know is coming down the pipeline and you know having a [TS]

  range of displays as this specific terms of just these two sides displays and [TS]

  then doing like you said perfect texture mapping for them [TS]

  definitely makes it easier to scale area while the baby and the biggest tell to [TS]

  you about what they care about developers having to do a lot of work is [TS]

  when the original iPad came out because the easiest thing if they were really [TS]

  worried about making life easier for developers they would have made the [TS]

  original iPad a little bit smaller and then just had it runs iPhone apps scaled [TS]

  up and it wouldn't you know it would have been terrible idea it would have I [TS]

  think it would have kept the iPad honestly think it woulda kept the iPad [TS]

  from being a hit product but it would have been what happened if one of their [TS]

  top priorities was making life easier for their developers whereas instead [TS]

  their top priority is doing what they think is the best design and then worry [TS]

  about you know how to make it you know how to be helpful to developers right i [TS]

  mean the fact is the best thing they can do for developers is to sell shit [TS]

  telephones right and if if a decision is going to make themselves shit ton of [TS]

  phones that all developers should be very happy and do whatever is required [TS]

  to get into that market because that's best for us you know it regardless of if [TS]

  we have to lay out of screen twice that's nothing for reaching a shit ton [TS]

  of phones [TS]

  alright why I told you it'd be short show so that that's not good off now [TS]

  before we set our mind Marco I really have to thank you a lot I don't think I [TS]

  i I think this is the most sincere thanks I have had offered to guests [TS]

  because the longest continuous recording session ever had [TS]

  yeah I think me to actually this is this is my record I must feel at this point I [TS]

  i still going strong and that's why I want to cut it off I don't feel like [TS]

  we've lost it but I'm slowing down as for sure exactly exactly had yeah well [TS]

  thank you very much [TS]

  it was fun let's let's get some pitches in we've got ATP ATP . FM right to get [TS]

  it right [TS]

  that your podcast I think honestly I do I say this noble should show anybody [TS]

  likes this show would love ATP if you have a listen to it you're not you got [TS]

  your Marco dot org [TS]

  you got your overcast but that's not out yet we now have a reason to release it [TS]

  because the the Jonathan Coulton comic book just came in from Kickstarter and I [TS]

  bought an add-in therefore overcast so now this is like shipping to people with [TS]

  an ad for overcast doesn't exist yet did get did you do that because you thought [TS]

  you'd be out by now or some of both but I had a rough idea it was coming out [TS]

  like you know early this year some time and yet arrived in the mail today and it [TS]

  looks awesome in this point to upset there's nothing on it that's not too far [TS]

  behind schedule but I do recall talking with you [TS]

  months ago and you had a vague plan to be in bad about December yeah it didn't [TS]

  happen I'm still in beta but I'm getting there possibly may be with us on this [TS]

  episode released I might be in beta but that's unlikely like a hearing your [TS]

  voice though that it's it's getting close [TS]

  yeah I mean I'm using a full time I've been using a full-time for like four [TS]

  months only podcast client so you know certainly there's a voice that a [TS]

  developer has when a product that was behind schedule still is in beta [TS]

  and and yet it's beta isn't even within sight [TS]

  there's a certain tone to their desperation a defeated no I mean I I'm [TS]

  to the point now where I have I almost have something shippable the only [TS]

  question is deciding what to push off to future versions I really want version 1 [TS]

  to be awesome and it's so you know every developer faces it's so tempting to cram [TS]

  as much in there as you possibly can but I know that I'm never gonna ship if I do [TS]

  that and so i'm just i'm having to cut so many pretty nice big things that I [TS]

  really want to do that are just not gonna be ready in time and that's it's [TS]

  kind of heartbreaking but that's the reality I have to do and I now so now I [TS]

  have a nice big road map for things I can add you know in the next few months [TS]

  1.0 can turn into like a willow the wisp situation where it's always just no [TS]

  matter how much effort you put into it it's still the same distance away from [TS]

  shipping and it'll drive you nuts you know cutting features is how you catch [TS]

  the world [TS]

  thank you mark oh alright thanks [TS]