Neutral

8: Three James Mays

 

  hey we strongly huge week [TS]

  not much has a car show it's a fast week [TS]

  that's just going to have to be [TS]

  described in terms of speed and [TS]

  horsepower and and all of those like you [TS]

  know gearhead type of factors torque [TS]

  lots of to work on the show or if you're [TS]

  Jeremy Clarkson torques yeah I was I was [TS]

  I saw there was somebody on Twitter I I [TS]

  should probably know this but I don't [TS]

  know who who earlier today and give us a [TS]

  link to this itunes podcast they said [TS]

  this is like John syracuse review in [TS]

  cars here it's called called driving [TS]

  sports TV HD and I guess the site is [TS]

  driving sports.com and everything about [TS]

  it looks like the description and [TS]

  everything it looks like the complete [TS]

  opposite of John syracuse reviewing car [TS]

  and like if you actually like I just [TS]

  watched the quickly watch the one on the [TS]

  audi s5 and once you actually get into [TS]

  the episode and you see the guy talking [TS]

  he he is like a kind of smart smart guy [TS]

  kind of car review or like it's not like [TS]

  the super octane [TS]

  lowest-common-denominator like things [TS]

  that were created by somebody who [TS]

  doesn't really care about cars to fill a [TS]

  market segment you know it's not that [TS]

  kind of thing at all but the description [TS]

  the name of it driving sports TV HD like [TS]

  than the name of it and the description [TS]

  from the newest cars to the hottest [TS]

  events driving sports TV is your [TS]

  high-definition connection to the [TS]

  fast-moving automotive world exclusive [TS]

  content produced by automotive [TS]

  journalists feature in car test [TS]

  motorsports autotech and more like does [TS]

  that sound anything like John siracusa [TS]

  no not at all [TS]

  it sounds like John siracusa with a [TS]

  publisher mine would probably be like [TS]

  publicist excuse me dear watch motorWeek [TS]

  I don't think so no I was it originally [TS]

  i'm paid PBS back and it's still on air [TS]

  injection like it's that show is still [TS]

  on air reviewing current cards which [TS]

  boggles my mind but I with PBS I want [TS]

  you [TS]

  yeah that was like the most dry kind of [TS]

  not trying to be entertaining in any way [TS]

  like they would they would show the same [TS]

  video of like the head shoulders and [TS]

  body of a guy getting into a car and [TS]

  buckling the seatbelt and moving the [TS]

  seat forward [TS]

  fiddling with the controls on the [TS]

  dashboard and they would describe it as [TS]

  kind of like a video consumer reports if [TS]

  you can imagine such a thing [TS]

  this is yeah is this the one with the [TS]

  oddly named x editor of car driver like [TS]

  chubby chubby or something now he is [TS]

  he's actually an interesting person in [TS]

  this show did not gonna look at who's [TS]

  who's on the show always mills maryland [TS]

  maryland 2117 so I know that address off [TS]

  the top of my head what I don't know [TS]

  what you got to talk to me now I don't [TS]

  even know it out google 4000 wingsss [TS]

  owings mills maryland i think i think [TS]

  it's funny like when we first started [TS]

  doing this show how because we were [TS]

  three guys doing a car show everyone [TS]

  tried to figure out which top gear [TS]

  presenter each one of us would represent [TS]

  and of course I'm talking about the [TS]

  British will not the US won because [TS]

  we're you know for real people here and [TS]

  and you know everybody tried to kind of [TS]

  crammed us in there but I think what's [TS]

  what's interesting and the reason why [TS]

  that doesn't work is you know on top [TS]

  gear you have these three very different [TS]

  personalities i'm pretty sure though [TS]

  among the cast here at neutral that we [TS]

  are all just James may I all three of us [TS]

  were just three James Mays and i think i [TS]

  think the difference in the mood between [TS]

  the show and top gear probably indicates [TS]

  whitetop year doesn't just have three [TS]

  James me hates yeah and it's funny to me [TS]

  that that everyone who seemed to set [TS]

  when they when they tried to associate [TS]

  us with the top your cast it seemed that [TS]

  everyone felt like John is James May and [TS]

  given your physical stature you [TS]

  immediately became hammond and then by [TS]

  you're running out of other options IM [TS]

  Clarkson right [TS]

  really that's what I'm telling myself it [TS]

  we also have a little bits of each of [TS]

  the people in us we all have a little [TS]

  bit of the nerdy James May apart and I [TS]

  think even like Jeremy is very [TS]

  opinionated about cars often with no [TS]

  real foundation and no foundation in [TS]

  logic is just kind of like his gut [TS]

  feeling and we all have some of that [TS]

  about all are you know whatever little [TS]

  part of cars that were interested in we [TS]

  have that sort of gut feeling and [TS]

  Hammond is more of like a [TS]

  twelve-year-old maybe hell yeah like a [TS]

  like a wide-eyed kind of fascination and [TS]

  he's not interested in the technical [TS]

  details and he doesn't ruminate and [TS]

  think hard about the gut feeling of what [TS]

  how car should be he just gets excited [TS]

  by whatever gets them excited so I think [TS]

  there's a little piece of all those [TS]

  presenters as they call them in all of [TS]

  these I think what bothered me about [TS]

  being compared all the time to hammond [TS]

  or being guests to be hand and is that [TS]

  I'd really don't like American cars at [TS]

  all like I I really strongly dislike [TS]

  american cars and I i really don't [TS]

  intend to ever own one [TS]

  yeah but if you had grown up in England [TS]

  would you like American cars because [TS]

  then it would be it would be these [TS]

  strange different exotic thing you know [TS]

  what I mean I don't you want me to think [TS]

  all my friends like the whatever they [TS]

  like but I i mean i like different [TS]

  things you know i mean i have to cross [TS]

  some water to get to Germany to yeah [TS]

  well actually the the i agree with what [TS]

  you said John but a couple years ago [TS]

  actually surprised several years ago now [TS]

  Clarkson did a mini-series on inventions [TS]

  that changed the world and it was an [TS]

  unbelievably good miniseries where he [TS]

  investigated like the history and [TS]

  stories behind several different things [TS]

  and Marco you've seen it right course [TS]

  have you haven't seen this John I've [TS]

  seen changes amazed I stories which is [TS]

  also excellent but now it is not the [TS]

  same in what's interesting to me about [TS]

  Clarkson is I agree that he is very non [TS]

  cerebral I don't think anyway and that [TS]

  he's just very much from the gut but he [TS]

  has an unbelievable appreciation for [TS]

  engineering and for technology and in [TS]

  fact I think he was on like the last [TS]

  flight of the conchords airplane he did [TS]

  it he did one of the inventions that [TS]

  changed the world episodes was on the [TS]

  jet engine another one is on the [TS]

  computer i forget what the other ones [TS]

  were off the top of my head gunpowder i [TS]

  believe is one but they were you'll have [TS]

  to dig one up John there there dig them [TS]

  up i should say that they're really [TS]

  really good there about an hour peace [TS]

  and they're really thoughtful in it [TS]

  exposed to side of Clarkson that I don't [TS]

  think I had been privy to previously [TS]

  meanwhile james may's toy stories expose [TS]

  exactly what you expect [TS]

  yeah I I don't understand celebrity and [TS]

  in England I don't understand how that [TS]

  works are I mean our why these people [TS]

  are celebrities as opposed to like all [TS]

  the other enemy that they're interesting [TS]

  and their personal or whatever but I [TS]

  guess we just used to an America with a [TS]

  larger pool of people to choose from [TS]

  there's always something superlative [TS]

  about someone that's widely known in a [TS]

  celebrity and they're usually very very [TS]

  good-looking no matter what other thing [TS]

  about them is interesting you know what [TS]

  I mean anything with with England like [TS]

  because it is so few people there it is [TS]

  more like it's like like the best people [TS]

  you'd find in the u.s. to do like a [TS]

  national news broadcast [TS]

  you got a pretty big pool of people to [TS]

  pick from there in England it's more [TS]

  like the best people you'd find in the [TS]

  new york metro area for Rhode Island [TS]

  floor like Philadelphia like it's it's [TS]

  really like it's I don't even know i [TS]

  think somebody once told me about side [TS]

  of Philadelphia's that is that accurate [TS]

  anyway they're like my population [TS]

  something like that it it's you know [TS]

  it's about the size of like a [TS]

  medium-sized or medium to large American [TS]

  city so it's like it's more like just [TS]

  what it's more like the local local [TS]

  talent pool of a good-sized City I can't [TS]

  imagine that's actually accurate because [TS]

  London alone is huge now it's 66 million [TS]

  for the UK is a pretty big sorry [TS]

  yeah but I get what you're saying but [TS]

  you were going for here is that in the [TS]

  land of the blind the one-eyed man is [TS]

  king like one state then yeah fun stuff [TS]

  and even topics today i have a few I i [TS]

  have my pocket topic of hawai i like [TS]

  hondas which takes like two minutes and [TS]

  then you could say why you're like the [TS]

  cars that you like I'm yeah I'm curious [TS]

  let's get let's do it like a weekend we [TS]

  interrupt can we do some follow-up well [TS]

  you can just followed by what can I do [TS]

  some follow-up with whatever you know I [TS]

  was right about something [TS]

  darn it we have gotten a surprisingly [TS]

  small amount of feedback regarding my [TS]

  obsession with backing into parking [TS]

  spots you knew it was coming I can hear [TS]

  you guys sign even though i can't hear [TS]

  you sign in it was interesting to me [TS]

  because I expected a fewer of people [TS]

  explaining how much more on a.m. and [TS]

  there was certainly some of that but [TS]

  there was also a decent amount of people [TS]

  saying that I'm not an idiot in one in [TS]

  particular [TS]

  let me find this email this person asked [TS]

  not to be named so i will not name them [TS]

  but it's a fairly short email and i [TS]

  think pretty well summarized how i feel [TS]

  i found this topic on reverse parking [TS]

  into base basis an interesting topic [TS]

  although i would completely disagree [TS]

  with both mark and John and obviously [TS]

  I'm immediately endeared to this email [TS]

  as a person will always reverse into a [TS]

  parking space i base my reasoning on [TS]

  this for safety in my opinion by [TS]

  reversing into a space you're always in [TS]

  a situation where you can safely and [TS]

  easily see what other cars are and [TS]

  causing less of a hazard to others when [TS]

  backing you are able to manipulate and [TS]

  control the traffic with your verse [TS]

  maneuver spelled oddly i think it's like [TS]

  the european spelling anyway with full [TS]

  visibility of what other drivers are [TS]

  doing this is then the same when exiting [TS]

  as you are in an optimum situation for [TS]

  seeing what other cars are and when it's [TS]

  free to pull out into traffic and I [TS]

  thought that was a pretty good summary [TS]

  of something that several other people [TS]

  sent as well and how I feel about things [TS]

  a selection bias though because the vast [TS]

  majority of people listening heard you [TS]

  were nodding your head hurt you give [TS]

  your crazy idea heard me Marco shoot [TS]

  down so while you're working on that you [TS]

  need to do the only people you're going [TS]

  to get other people are like who want to [TS]

  fight against this injustice [TS]

  maybe you're absolutely right totally [TS]

  you know yeah i responded to a couple of [TS]

  feedback things I didn't I don't see you [TS]

  guys when I response was talking to the [TS]

  listener really and we had a [TS]

  back-and-forth with them and what one [TS]

  person i forgot where they were from [TS]

  saying that it was it was very common [TS]

  where they were and I think if that [TS]

  makes a difference if it if it's common [TS]

  where you are all the things about [TS]

  blocking up traffic and annoying people [TS]

  and potentially getting into accidents [TS]

  for people who don't realize that you've [TS]

  stopped there now backing up because [TS]

  they're not paying attention or go for [TS]

  the same spot that you're going forward [TS]

  your end of colliding like that got that [TS]

  almost goes away if everybody is backing [TS]

  in all the time but that is not the case [TS]

  in the u.s. everybody is not back in so [TS]

  when you back in you are hazards other [TS]

  people you're ignoring them by blocking [TS]

  up the area and they're not going to [TS]

  notice that you're doing this they're [TS]

  not going to notice your your your [TS]

  backup lights come on they're just gonna [TS]

  Ram you because i'm not paying attention [TS]

  to texting their friends are going to go [TS]

  for the spot that I think you drove past [TS]

  it and that's why still kc you should [TS]

  not be back in scoring spot unless you [TS]

  move to another country where everybody [TS]

  does it in which case go nuts and and [TS]

  you can't come certainly can't come here [TS]

  because here want [TS]

  we didn't mention yet because I i assume [TS]

  you know people who have this problem [TS]

  just never even consider any other [TS]

  option is if you're parking spots are [TS]

  set on an angle a larger where you were [TS]

  usually that just means you know that [TS]

  each each lane and a lot has a one-way [TS]

  restriction on how you can drive and you [TS]

  can only pull straight in [TS]

  I'm you know because usually just an [TS]

  angle to save space [TS]

  it's just hate to save overall width of [TS]

  how wide that Lane can be in places [TS]

  where you have tight spaces like older [TS]

  cities and and just dense areas that [TS]

  somehow still have parking spots and and [TS]

  so yeah like if you're if you have [TS]

  selected parking spot you you kind of [TS]

  can't pull in or at least without being [TS]

  totally ridiculous and that drives me [TS]

  nuts when I see people do that and more [TS]

  will like it they'll see doesn't pull [TS]

  through and pull through but they're [TS]

  facing the wrong way right now known as [TS]

  allowed and they're screwed right right [TS]

  and that's my point so even as a [TS]

  developed backer inner guy thing I that [TS]

  still drives me crazy so John what do [TS]

  you like on too so much [TS]

  yeah I should have written up stuff for [TS]

  this but it's not doing it [TS]

  oh that's the spirit yeah so the first [TS]

  thing is that the whole reason ever get [TS]

  into and is the same reason most people [TS]

  get into anything is like you just you [TS]

  just fall into it because you know in [TS]

  case of cars it's like you know what [TS]

  youre happened to buy your first car in [TS]

  my case it's what your parents have some [TS]

  of my parents had a big minivan for the [TS]

  whole family and then we had at the time [TS]

  I i got my license we have a smaller car [TS]

  smaller second card was a honda civic [TS]

  and that eventually got added to with it [TS]

  or replace with integra when I took the [TS]

  specific but that was the first honda [TS]

  that our family didn't have before that [TS]

  it was a series of okay we got a bunch [TS]

  of american cars you got a Volvo in [TS]

  there always will be ill pontiac [TS]

  volkswagen rabbit like all sorts of [TS]

  things but this is the very first honda [TS]

  that I'd ever come in contact with so i [TS]

  feel like i had a good experience of the [TS]

  range of kind of cars that you could [TS]

  have both the cars and my parents owned [TS]

  and relatives that I had written in so [TS]

  the things that are distinct about a [TS]

  hundred stood out to me because I guess [TS]

  the only other car had you know the [TS]

  Volvo has its own sort of [TS]

  characteristics which are kind of exotic [TS]

  and weird and the Volkswagen is a little [TS]

  bit exotic but the rest of the images [TS]

  series of American car so the honda [TS]

  really stood out to me [TS]

  wow this car is different than the other [TS]

  cars that we've gotten up because it's [TS]

  new or anything but just because the [TS]

  value system that made it is different [TS]

  and the things that stood out to me [TS]

  about the honda and this is what we [TS]

  talked about 9,200 i'm going to talk [TS]

  about where honda lost its way started [TS]

  to stray from the things that i love [TS]

  about it where that they the trade-offs [TS]

  that made one is that they decided if [TS]

  there's a choice between lightness and [TS]

  heaviness go with lightness so lots of [TS]

  other cars we have a quieter because [TS]

  they had no more sound-deadening [TS]

  material or you know that sticker sheet [TS]

  metal or just you know there was more [TS]

  mass around them and everything [TS]

  honda would pick the opposite which [TS]

  produced a very lightweight car you know [TS]

  some people think it's like a flimsy [TS]

  feeling like if you're into american [TS]

  cars you think I just feel flimsy [TS]

  because everything is small and light [TS]

  but i really like that and I that [TS]

  extends to the controls the gearshift [TS]

  you know very it's not a big chunky me [TS]

  debe thing it's a very tiny little thing [TS]

  that the clutch pedal was you know [TS]

  almost like hitting the brake or gas [TS]

  pedal incredibly light especially after [TS]

  the Volvo which was the manual that I [TS]

  learned on which was like a Nautilus [TS]

  machine for your left leg unbelieving [TS]

  offer for all 84 or 85 horsepower that [TS]

  clutch had like her are ya [TS]

  everything about it was just incredibly [TS]

  light and even the steering which was no [TS]

  I believe it was 92 Pacific slot power [TS]

  steering but it was very light not over [TS]

  boosted life but the whole car was like [TS]

  I mean that little experience with see [TS]

  no light in areas like wow this is like [TS]

  a breath of fresh air the second thing [TS]

  is this was a very common characteristic [TS]

  for early honda's what they call locale [TS]

  height which means like the height of [TS]

  the dashboard and the hood and [TS]

  everything in front of you but i don't [TS]

  know like where-- where-- intersects [TS]

  your eyeline basically you know when you [TS]

  look down the front of the car at how [TS]

  much can you see do you feel like you're [TS]

  looking at the slower out of a slit in [TS]

  the tank like that's that's something a [TS]

  lot of American cars had not like the [TS]

  muscle-car things where everything about [TS]

  it is HEIs got high shoulders high [TS]

  catalyzing you kind of look like it [TS]

  looks great from the outside looks very [TS]

  low-profile low-slung but you feel like [TS]

  you're looking at a tiny little slit and [TS]

  you can't really see the road in front [TS]

  of you because you have this hood that's [TS]

  blocking your view on it was the [TS]

  opposite of it shoved everything down [TS]

  and that produce dorky-looking cars they [TS]

  produce cars look like you know that the [TS]

  height of the door was very low in this [TS]

  big expensive glass [TS]

  this big tall bubble thing and in fact [TS]

  that the sort of the apex of this [TS]

  philosophy was the acura nsx which one [TS]

  they were designing a sex one of the [TS]

  design inspiration of this is one of my [TS]

  11 of the best design inspirations I've [TS]

  heard four carbons here to say our [TS]

  design we were inspired by the wind or [TS]

  some other you know PS there whatever [TS]

  that they were inspired for the nsx by [TS]

  the design of the f16 cockpit and the [TS]

  f16 top it off you know the button is [TS]

  this thing looks like yeah maybe [TS]

  anyway thank you Mark ok Google one that [TS]

  was designed so that there would be a [TS]

  lot of this little power would have a [TS]

  lot of visibility front back and all the [TS]

  side so it was kind of like get the [TS]

  plane down below and then make a bubble [TS]

  sticking out of the plane that the [TS]

  person sits in and you know you can see [TS]

  back into the bubble besides like [TS]

  everywhere you you have more more [TS]

  visibility because you are sort of up on [TS]

  a perch so the nsx was like get the car [TS]

  down low out of the way and then put a [TS]

  glass kind of bubble popping out of that [TS]

  so that you have good visibility all [TS]

  around which is again very counter to [TS]

  the typical you know what kind of [TS]

  visibility got out of a Lamborghini or [TS]

  something where you you really are [TS]

  looking through these tiny little slits [TS]

  in your rear visibility is terrible [TS]

  because it's like a wing back there in [TS]

  the engine is back there and you can't [TS]

  see anything [TS]

  the nsx was consciously trying not to do [TS]

  that and you look at a section and [TS]

  profile you'll see flat kind of car [TS]

  person as low as accountants and this [TS]

  bubble on top of it so you can see back [TS]

  front and the sides and all hondas were [TS]

  like that it looks good to me a Saxon [TS]

  looks very dorky and the other cars [TS]

  because you really to see lots of [TS]

  greenhouse and like a little cat little [TS]

  miniature car squish down underneath [TS]

  this giant greenhouse and I like the big [TS]

  green house because it gives me head [TS]

  class this is that this tiny little [TS]

  Civic was the car that i had the most [TS]

  Headroom in of all the cars that we had [TS]

  ever owned all which were substantially [TS]

  larger so i gave that a big thumbs up [TS]

  and it was also this was before the d [TS]

  content in crisis i think that's what [TS]

  they called it of Japanese cars where I [TS]

  don't know why I'm not going to [TS]

  speculate on something something to [TS]

  exchange rates or the Japanese economy [TS]

  or whatever but it used to be the [TS]

  Japanese cars could have all sorts of [TS]

  stuff and then it was nice like still [TS]

  selling of her reasonable price [TS]

  there's a great economics lesson waving [TS]

  my hand widely and later on I be it [TS]

  they couldn't do that anymore ate it [TS]

  cost them or they would have to sell [TS]

  their car for much more money if they [TS]

  put the same amount of stuff in it so [TS]

  some examples from my city that had [TS]

  talked about on hypercritical some point [TS]

  or another the the civic the 92 civic [TS]

  head a very small trunk is because I can [TS]

  make it was very small at the opening [TS]

  was very small out and when you lift up [TS]

  the trunk lid it didn't have those [TS]

  little gooseneck idea that was a total [TS]

  episode introduce next didn't have those [TS]

  little metal gooseneck things like that [TS]

  connect the trunk to the back so when [TS]

  you close those little things you know [TS]

  intrude into the trunk very I crushed [TS]

  her status right they had their little [TS]

  struts little you know I think they're [TS]

  automatic little air-filled struts [TS]

  series of them you know a couple links [TS]

  so that when you pull the lid up you [TS]

  know we can open-close nicely but [TS]

  nothing intrude into the trunk space and [TS]

  that's more expensive to make and more [TS]

  fragile and it more difficult to design [TS]

  everything but they could afford to put [TS]

  that in their cheapest of the cheapest [TS]

  of the cheapest card that they made at [TS]

  the time it was one side mirror you know [TS]

  they couldn't afford a second sign here [TS]

  but had that and that the cars were [TS]

  designed to be like okay it's not going [TS]

  to be expensive car but every part of [TS]

  you put in is going to be nice and high [TS]

  quality we're not going to cheap out in [TS]

  something like that so that was that was [TS]

  the honda that I love lightweight good [TS]

  visibility locale height snappy feeling [TS]

  small kind of almost delicate controls [TS]

  and of course you know very reliable and [TS]

  you know all the other good qualities [TS]

  you want you don't you know you don't [TS]

  want to be things you don't want things [TS]

  to be falling apart you wanted things to [TS]

  feel high quality of high quality as [TS]

  they can in a cheap car and then in [TS]

  subsequent years when the D contact me [TS]

  began specific got a crappy trunk that [TS]

  they the design of the car started to [TS]

  creep up you start to get you know [TS]

  higher and higher Heights some on the on [TS]

  the doors and you know the dashboard [TS]

  start to rise up the cars became a [TS]

  little bit fatter and heavier both [TS]

  styling wise and weight wise which [TS]

  course happened to all cars at the same [TS]

  time and I just felt like they were they [TS]

  were leaving me behind the snappy little [TS]

  shifter became just like a kind of [TS]

  mediocre or naughty little shifter that [TS]

  didn't feel snappy you know the steering [TS]

  was still light but it didn't have as [TS]

  much road feel and it you know just [TS]

  started to get it started to go bad for [TS]

  me I think they're coming back from that [TS]

  now like that the court my god is like [TS]

  the last acceptable court would have got [TS]

  which is like 2007 [TS]

  I would not have what I need the cord in [TS]

  between and now the 2013 looks like it's [TS]

  getting a Honda is back thumbs up but i [TS]

  have to test drive myself and see have [TS]

  they recaptured what I liked about [TS]

  honda's or have or is it still you know [TS]

  not as good as it used to be so what's [TS]

  your alternative if you drive this thing [TS]

  that the 2013 accord and you don't care [TS]

  for it i don't know i mean before even [TS]

  considering that when the the cords are [TS]

  all terrible and you know the hardest i [TS]

  didn't like the new Civic Center like [TS]

  the chords that unless certainly didn't [TS]

  like the crosstour and other things i [TS]

  looked at all sorts of things like what [TS]

  about a Volvo wagon I kind of you know I [TS]

  do have a soft spot for vowels but volvo [TS]

  is you know going nowhere fast and volvo [TS]

  SuperDuper expensive i looked at the [TS]

  Subarus but I just I couldn't haha i [TS]

  like it i don't i don't like their [TS]

  styling I don't like I've driven by my [TS]

  friends have a super drove his I don't [TS]

  like how they are you know I don't like [TS]

  the sound of the engines make me come as [TS]

  light as they're not like that i was [TS]

  looking for the four-wheel-drive aspect [TS]

  right if you know it it's basically like [TS]

  if I i don't i don't want a toyota the [TS]

  the the new bigger passat is kind of [TS]

  like the big bloated record that I [TS]

  didn't like [TS]

  so I don't know I was kind of stuck [TS]

  between a rock and a hard place like the [TS]

  baby i would have to spend a lot more [TS]

  money i feel like is that the accord is [TS]

  a reasonably priced car that I hoping [TS]

  that I would like and if I don't what [TS]

  what other alternatives to have for a [TS]

  car that will actually like I don't know [TS]

  if it's gonna it's gonna cost a lot more [TS]

  the nsx yeah it doesn't really hold two [TS]

  kids that well now you can you can be [TS]

  creative and I'm sure to figure [TS]

  something out [TS]

  yeah you're an engineer think i like how [TS]

  you know you see how the the visibility [TS]

  out of the car is so important to you [TS]

  because it is for me too and that ruins [TS]

  a lot of cars for me when that's bad and [TS]

  and like because I'm not a tall guy I'm [TS]

  like I'm like 5-6 so I but i like having [TS]

  good visibility so what I usually do is [TS]

  have my seat raised up as usually to the [TS]

  highest that it will go in or very close [TS]

  to that that also helps [TS]

  I used to have a back problem from [TS]

  driving too much for a while ahead i had [TS]

  a herniated lower disk and one of the [TS]

  better ways to sit if you have back [TS]

  problems or to avoid back problems is to [TS]

  make it so that your butt is not lower [TS]

  than your knees more than it has to be [TS]

  so in some cars this is easier than [TS]

  others in big like vans and trucks you [TS]

  sit so much higher up that usually this [TS]

  is significantly easier but in cars you [TS]

  know the the kind of lousy seating [TS]

  position that a lot of people prefer for [TS]

  short-term comfort is basically like [TS]

  your butt is almost on the floor your [TS]

  knees are up above it and your kind of [TS]

  leading back diagonally and that is that [TS]

  is the worst thing you can do to your [TS]

  back and eventually this will catch up [TS]

  to you could if you don't have a lot or [TS]

  if you set that was the seating position [TS]

  in my 92 civic the seats for like [TS]

  basically on the floor and and you know [TS]

  and then I your feet were out in front [TS]

  of you your feet there isn't going down [TS]

  into the the footwell for the pedals it [TS]

  was just going forward so well and i [TS]

  love this because this was a car with my [TS]

  hair didn't hit the headliner and you're [TS]

  heading the headliner doesn't like a big [TS]

  deal that annoys the hell out of you if [TS]

  your hair is like you know I'm the [TS]

  little felt you know mouse for headliner [TS]

  it just drives you insane so believe it [TS]

  or not that is actually have had that [TS]

  problem but you wouldn't you would never [TS]

  guess knowing me I was not being as tall [TS]

  as you but because I put the seat so [TS]

  high i have occasionally had that [TS]

  problem and and believe me I know how [TS]

  annoying it is and in fact like when i [TS]

  was doing that that uh that M racing day [TS]

  you had to wear a race helmet in the [TS]

  cars and I had to sit significantly [TS]

  lower than i usually do because my [TS]

  helmet was hitting the ceiling and [TS]

  suppose the head like way worse [TS]

  visibility than I usually do not because [TS]

  wearing a helmet but because i couldn't [TS]

  put the seat up I enough but yeah and so [TS]

  like that that's one of the reasons why [TS]

  I got the 1m because I don't really have [TS]

  any desire for what most people consider [TS]

  like sports cars like this the compact [TS]

  like roadster style or the supercars are [TS]

  very low to the ground [TS]

  I don't I don't feel comfortable in [TS]

  those I don't like driving those I don't [TS]

  like even writing them very much as [TS]

  eight you're just like hugging the [TS]

  ground and I know there's lots of [TS]

  reasons why i should like that you know [TS]

  it feels faster looks cooler it's way [TS]

  more aerodynamic the cars are smaller [TS]

  that there's there's a lot of reasons to [TS]

  like that but i don't i'm not the kind [TS]

  of person who likes it and so I would [TS]

  just say that I make an exception for [TS]

  visibility complaints for ferrari so [TS]

  funny 171 please do not refrain from [TS]

  sending on i will accept almost no [TS]

  visibility whatsoever out of these cars [TS]

  in exchange for driving line that's [TS]

  thicker but like you but you would you [TS]

  want to own one assuming that you're [TS]

  that you're dented roof problem went [TS]

  away [TS]

  ya know if you've given infinite money [TS]

  the car i will get would get would be a [TS]

  Ferrari no question it's already it's [TS]

  all planned out even with the poor [TS]

  visibility and you and your hair hitting [TS]

  the club yes now i will have its own [TS]

  little house that will live in but [TS]

  didn't and clean by crew each day and [TS]

  yes it will it will be lovely and i will [TS]

  learn how to drive because I you know [TS]

  I've driven large trucks as part of you [TS]

  know summer jobs as a kid and everything [TS]

  in comedy rearward visibility when [TS]

  you're driving a dump truck you just [TS]

  learned how to do it [TS]

  I'm willing to do that a sacrifice I'm [TS]

  willing to make it on a Ferrari have I [TS]

  told the story on on here about me [TS]

  driving a Ferrari you mentioned it but [TS]

  you didn't take didn't expand on it [TS]

  okay well i'll take this as an [TS]

  opportunity to do so so in Connecticut [TS]

  when i was learning how to drive a [TS]

  driver said was not a part of the [TS]

  school's you did it outside of school [TS]

  and Connecticut driver's a totem [TS]

  Ferraris no no not at all [TS]

  that was cited on neighborhoods yeah I [TS]

  was gonna say it was made not in my part [TS]

  of Connecticut so anyway [TS]

  well I didn't do driver said because [TS]

  wasn't part of school and in my parents [TS]

  were like no you don't need to bother [TS]

  with that so that because i didn't [TS]

  drivers that I could get my license tall [TS]

  16 and a half and i did so and i took [TS]

  the driver's test in the saturn that was [TS]

  a five-speed never thought I was out of [TS]

  my mind but I didn't pass my first time [TS]

  it was it was no big deal [TS]

  well um it was a couple of weeks later [TS]

  and my I was coming home at a reasonable [TS]

  hour but it was like after dinner or [TS]

  something like that and i noticed that [TS]

  no I knew that my parents were having [TS]

  some friends over and I noticed very [TS]

  quickly as I was rounding the bend to [TS]

  come up to my parents driveway which was [TS]

  very very stever is very very steep that [TS]

  there was a shiny red Ferrari sitting at [TS]

  the end of it and i want to say it was a [TS]

  355 I'm probably wrong [TS]

  but here what year was this this was if [TS]

  I was 16 this was ninety eight ish give [TS]

  or take a little bit 1999 good I'm yes [TS]

  but anyway so there's this beautiful [TS]

  ferrari sitting at the bottom of the [TS]

  driveway so I got the driveway and I go [TS]

  walking in and I know immediately that [TS]

  the owner that Ferrari is a family [TS]

  friend of ours who is of Italian [TS]

  heritage and own garbage companies in [TS]

  New York and Connecticut and so that we [TS]

  know that means well in i believe [TS]

  nothing we don't know anything yet we [TS]

  don't know anything and we don't know [TS]

  that I believe he's currently in jail [TS]

  I'm not that is not a joke so anyway so [TS]

  I said hey insert name here I really [TS]

  like your car today thanks to go for a [TS]

  ride [TS]

  uh yeah so we go walking back down the [TS]

  driveway and he takes me to this road [TS]

  that that my parents neighborhood is off [TS]

  of and it's like a three or four mile [TS]

  stretch that's for all intents and [TS]

  purposes straight straight as an arrow [TS]

  and so we go down the stretch and he [TS]

  does a you at the end come back towards [TS]

  my parents house all of a sudden stops [TS]

  the middle of the road in this light [TS]

  quarter-million-dollar ferraris stops in [TS]

  the middle of the road and this is a [TS]

  well-traveled Road gets out and I hear [TS]

  him say over his shoulder your turn [TS]

  I'm 16 and a half I've been driving for [TS]

  about six months and my family friend is [TS]

  telling me to get behind the wheel of [TS]

  his Ferrari ok so I jump in the driver's [TS]

  seat [TS]

  I thought the kind of guy you say no to [TS]

  exam well the that's true anyway Casey [TS]

  an offer he can't refuse littering very [TS]

  very literally so I get behind the [TS]

  driver's seat and I'd giggle a little [TS]

  bit as i realize that i'm about to drive [TS]

  a ferrari and of course it was a stick [TS]

  because this was before the es el [TS]

  automagic automatic manuals and I [TS]

  immediately noticed that all three [TS]

  pedals were basically one pedal because [TS]

  they were so close together but I did [TS]

  take off fine i did not stall i did not [TS]

  burn rubber and we're going down the [TS]

  road and I am doing nothing exciting it [TS]

  was the most boring drive a ferrari that [TS]

  has ever happened and then the gentleman [TS]

  who owned it looked over at me comments [TS]

  can be not upset since hey how fast do [TS]

  you think you're going as [TS]

  35-40 the speed limit i believe is 35 [TS]

  want to check it out so I looked down [TS]

  and I look at the speedometer and I can [TS]

  go first second cause there's a prancing [TS]

  horse in the middle of the speedometer [TS]

  and then I realize holy god I'm doing [TS]

  about 70 I had no idea and granted i [TS]

  wasn't a new driver but I mean I knew [TS]

  the difference between 1730 and I could [TS]

  have sworn I was doing 35 40 and I [TS]

  covered the 72nd here though [TS]

  yeah it's also true and so we got home I [TS]

  did not pull it up the driveway [TS]

  everything was fine and to this day that [TS]

  is one of my favorite driving [TS]

  experiences of all time I mean it again [TS]

  i wish i could tell you that I i stood [TS]

  on the gas that i did a brake check just [TS]

  for the fun of it i did nothing exciting [TS]

  but yet it was the most exciting drive i [TS]

  think i've ever had in my life my most [TS]

  exciting counter for with Ferraris even [TS]

  more boring we can have a contest for 10 [TS]

  with that is not one of the most boring [TS]

  area here is my most exciting counter [TS]

  before i think i've also told the story [TS]

  before but tough luck if i went to [TS]

  Boston University which is very [TS]

  expensive school that lots of [TS]

  foreign-born people go to because they [TS]

  have lots of money i don't know and [TS]

  they're the people who go here from [TS]

  other countries especially for middle [TS]

  eastern countries like you know oil [TS]

  barons or whatever the parents and the [TS]

  kids to school they buy them an [TS]

  apartment to stay in or renting an [TS]

  apartment stand the ma I guess they rent [TS]

  them or by the car I don't know how [TS]

  these cars come to be angry they're [TS]

  college students undergraduates who have [TS]

  cars including Ferraris so I my [TS]

  undergraduate years like this is the [TS]

  first time that would be for our isn't a [TS]

  regular basis just walking to and from [TS]

  class they'd be parked or double park [TS]

  along the road is about universities [TS]

  right along commonwealth avenue which is [TS]

  very busy road as cars parked all wanted [TS]

  someone would be Ferraris and I were [TS]

  just you know Otto bellman lots of bmw's [TS]

  so you know lots of whatever that [TS]

  generation of m3 was that the one that [TS]

  actually liked what you ninety four [TS]

  through seven was at the e90 even worst [TS]

  experience ever 3636 was late nineties [TS]

  40s early 2000s the one where they at [TS]

  the very end of the rain they just add a [TS]

  little like masks to the aisle to the [TS]

  headlights was like the old headlights [TS]

  but they just put a little little mask [TS]

  on the bottom of it to like make a [TS]

  little circle cut outs remember that [TS]

  to be honest I do not know I'm [TS]

  disappointed myself anyway I look it up [TS]

  but i would look at all these cars and [TS]

  so one day coming out of the what was [TS]

  then the College of Liberal Arts or CLA [TS]

  but is now has a different name which is [TS]

  worse [TS]

  cas much worse anyway there was you know [TS]

  Ferrari parked out i believe it was [TS]

  either 348 or 355 because the the was [TS]

  the popular ferrari for the kids to have [TS]

  an interesting up everybody just said [TS]

  that was the popular Ferrari was like [TS]

  seven of them and it was like another [TS]

  494 there was all 348 and this then you [TS]

  know 100 the first thing that came out [TS]

  94 so then you start to see them in [TS]

  later years but anyway I come down the [TS]

  steps for coming out of the classroom [TS]

  building and there's a Ferrari sitting [TS]

  there it's covered convertible ferrari [TS]

  about half of them were convertible and [TS]

  it's sitting there with the engine [TS]

  running with nobody around it just you [TS]

  know parked on the side of the road [TS]

  you still living no that's not right [TS]

  about this is the most boring story but [TS]

  I thought fit look how many times is [TS]

  gonna happen to you in your life i did i [TS]

  did you know it'sit's the college's [TS]

  people everywhere no one's gonna really [TS]

  notice you is a Ferrari with the engine [TS]

  running with the keys in it with nobody [TS]

  around that owns it like no one is [TS]

  leaning on it no one's talking in a [TS]

  group here is just sitting there and why [TS]

  isn't the people are rich and [TS]

  irresponsible my teenagers major scene [TS]

  he's probably off smoking somewhere [TS]

  around the corner or whatever and I [TS]

  thought you know this may be your only [TS]

  chance to ever do this but then I [TS]

  thought you might go to jail or die and [TS]

  so I've in july i decided not to do it [TS]

  that is that isn't even more bored but [TS]

  to this day as Casey the Casey remembers [TS]

  his drive it just went straight down [TS]

  this road going a little bit too fast i [TS]

  still remember and relive that moment of [TS]

  like this could be the time that you [TS]

  that you get to drive a ferrari this [TS]

  could be the most exciting drive of your [TS]

  life [TS]

  I just want to my next class I might [TS]

  have even more boring ferrari story i'll [TS]

  go out and what about you can top that I [TS]

  didn't actually even touch the car [TS]

  well I don't even like caress it as i [TS]

  walked by I have done that but here's my [TS]

  story uh I don't know five years ago six [TS]

  years ago I went to a party with the guy [TS]

  who was in with the people who run [TS]

  yeah an exotic car rental place in [TS]

  jersey called Gotham dream cars and so I [TS]

  went to the part that like the Christmas [TS]

  party at Gotham dream cars which is just [TS]

  like in their warehouse in New Jersey [TS]

  and their house was just full of all of [TS]

  their ridiculous cars and this is the [TS]

  kind of place where you can pay like a [TS]

  thousand dollars a day to rent a [TS]

  Lamborghini or Ferrari or something so [TS]

  they had all their cars open in their [TS]

  warehouse for everyone just you know sit [TS]

  in so I went through you know as I'm [TS]

  like you know holding like a beer and [TS]

  cocktail appetizers [TS]

  I went and SAT in all these cars just [TS]

  for a few minutes looking at them took [TS]

  some pictures sitting in them that's it [TS]

  so I've I bet you engage the cars and [TS]

  you've got into them that's not that's [TS]

  more exciting than mine [TS]

  you'd be surprised how how not [TS]

  interesting it is to just sit in a [TS]

  really nice car and not actually like [TS]

  not not only are you not driving it but [TS]

  you aren't even even being in or near a [TS]

  while it is being driven by somebody [TS]

  else like it's just like up here Zach [TS]

  are just sitting here like it's not that [TS]

  different look at pictures of online now [TS]

  it's going i have a very vaguely similar [TS]

  story that I've been looking for a [TS]

  reason to tell so thank you for giving [TS]

  me the reason when i was $DAY i want to [TS]

  say 12 ish tennis twelvish my [TS]

  grandmother whom is still around this is [TS]

  my dad's mom and we were really close at [TS]

  the time and we she lived in Manhattan [TS]

  and one day i was visiting her and I was [TS]

  with my family if i'm not mistaken but [TS]

  because occasionally I would go and just [TS]

  hang out just the two of us [TS]

  well I had like a car and driver [TS]

  something like that at this point in my [TS]

  life as with every other [TS]

  twelve-year-olds I was obsessed with [TS]

  Lamborghinis and so do my grandmother [TS]

  whom I called man said to me hey you [TS]

  know what are you looking at myself this [TS]

  really cool car I've always wanted to [TS]

  see what I've ever seen reports [TS]

  what's a call with Lamborghini as well [TS]

  let's find one let's go look at one [TS]

  point man it's a quarter million dollars [TS]

  an hour whatever I mean I didn't know [TS]

  how much was like man it's really [TS]

  expensive so next thing I know she's on [TS]

  the phone with Maura motorsports which [TS]

  is no longer around I've tried to find [TS]

  them and I can't but they were they were [TS]

  coming [TS]

  lamborghini dealer across the river new [TS]

  jersey vaguely near Liberty Science [TS]

  Center from that mistaken and so she's [TS]

  on the phone with a woman there who we [TS]

  later find out is the owner and so she [TS]

  says hey you know my grandson's visiting [TS]

  I think I lived in illinois the time or [TS]

  something like that [TS]

  my grandson's visiting from Illinois and [TS]

  he really loves Lamborghinis can can i [TS]

  bring him by and the story i'm told [TS]

  consistently is that the owner of the [TS]

  company said without pausing and even an [TS]

  instant said he's a potential buyer [TS]

  bring them in and it was already made [TS]

  clear that I'm well next thing i know [TS]

  it's an hour later or maybe 30 know you [TS]

  know Marco how long does it take to get [TS]

  across the river anyway so forever [TS]

  you got it sound infinite I so I was 16 [TS]

  years old when we arrived a husband but [TS]

  I we get to the dealer and this was when [TS]

  the diablo was new or it within the last [TS]

  day or two just come out last year too [TS]

  so in the showroom there was a black [TS]

  Diablo there was a white countach used [TS]

  that was previously owned by mario [TS]

  andretti and i think one or two other [TS]

  cars but I I can't even for life and [TS]

  remember what they were [TS]

  so I meet this woman in my recollection [TS]

  of it was that she was fairly young like [TS]

  late thirties early forties and and she [TS]

  said you know I'm so glad you came down [TS]

  she gave me a packet of information like [TS]

  a like a sales brochure which I just [TS]

  found the other day actually [TS]

  and she said hey would you know why [TS]

  don't you come sit in them and so she [TS]

  opens up the diablo with the not [TS]

  goldwing but the vertically opening [TS]

  doors which at the time was not ruined [TS]

  by fast and furious so it was actually [TS]

  still cool and so she opens the door she [TS]

  do she gets out of the way so I can sit [TS]

  in it and I go to sit in it and officers [TS]

  she grabs me and pulls me back and I'm [TS]

  thinking myself holy god i don't know [TS]

  what i just did I haven't even touched a [TS]

  thing yet but I am screwed I'm like [TS]

  going to jail because of 12 I didn't [TS]

  know any better so she steps in front of [TS]

  me says hold on a second takes the [TS]

  plastic wrap off of the seats so that i [TS]

  can sit on the leather and then says go [TS]

  ahead [TS]

  it was the coolest freaking experience [TS]

  of my life and so I have pictures which [TS]

  if I wasn't so lazy i would scan and we [TS]

  would put in our non-existent show notes [TS]

  but I have pictures of me sitting in a [TS]

  diablo like 12 years old whatever it is [TS]

  and [TS]

  it was the coolest experience in the [TS]

  world and i want so badly to be able to [TS]

  find this woman and tell her you know [TS]

  even 15 years later I still so fondly [TS]

  remember that that that moment and and I [TS]

  will always remember that moment and [TS]

  I've tried to dig up the the more of [TS]

  Motorsports company and it seems to have [TS]

  folded i did find a website that i know [TS]

  is them but it's just kind of like a [TS]

  parked website i mean there was enough [TS]

  information that tells the same people [TS]

  but there was almost nothing to it and [TS]

  I'm really bummed because I'd really [TS]

  love to find them so if you know where [TS]

  to find that picture and scan it I I was [TS]

  treated at the very least i will i will [TS]

  do that but yeah there was unbelievable [TS]

  she was so gracious and so awesome and [TS]

  and if somehow this thing ever finds her [TS]

  thank you so many many millions of times [TS]

  because it was unbelievably was a [TS]

  life-changing experience as a [TS]

  twelve-year-old meanwhile I just up the [TS]

  pictures of my Christmas party gotten [TS]

  dream cars and they are exactly as [TS]

  boring as i as i remember them to be it [TS]

  if you lie [TS]

  no okay i can all share the pictures [TS]

  afterwards it's just some fairly blurry [TS]

  pictures of car interiors so with some [TS]

  people you don't know hang around and [TS]

  some Christmas lights and some cocktail [TS]

  like we know that appetizer trays and [TS]

  people hanging around like it's so it's [TS]

  gonna end up here like it i'm looking at [TS]

  Vipers Lamborghinis there's a 911 [TS]

  there's a bunch of Ferraris whatever [TS]

  lamborghini VT is I don't even know i [TS]

  just i just read the back of it at like [TS]

  that all the abandoned me I mean there's [TS]

  all these crazy cars and and you know [TS]

  just who was it was it was fun like to [TS]

  stay i was there to say i was in all [TS]

  these cars but it wasn't nearly as good [TS]

  as it would have been cool if I was 12 [TS]

  it would've been amazing but as somebody [TS]

  who's old enough to drive all these cars [TS]

  being around a bunch of them i'm not [TS]

  driving them was surprisingly [TS]

  uninteresting the problem with being old [TS]

  that all these experience i have always [TS]

  exotic cars many of them like modified [TS]

  in college I didn't have a digital [TS]

  camera at that time I didn't have [TS]

  there's no you don't have a cellphone [TS]

  with a camera I don't have a cell phone [TS]

  . and so all you know if I did certainly [TS]

  like as I was arguing these cars walking [TS]

  to class I would have probably taken [TS]

  pictures of them might take pictures of [TS]

  my favorite and stuff but this [TS]

  a record of these because I for four [TS]

  years of college had no camera with me [TS]

  during the day and didn't even occur to [TS]

  me till I get my film camera and carried [TS]

  to class so i could take a picture of [TS]

  you know because then you would have [TS]

  been a nerd i don't know i found a [TS]

  picture of my mind not anyway it was the [TS]

  the 46 and I place it into the chat room [TS]

  you can look at the little things around [TS]

  the headlights that I was thinking of [TS]

  these have aftermarket body cladding on [TS]

  the bottom of it just ignore that part [TS]

  and look at the park around the head [TS]

  life that's how identify I how identify [TS]

  my m3 yeah that's definitely not need 36 [TS]

  like you said and if I could have 46 [TS]

  that I said it's not any thirty cents [TS]

  yeah i mean if I can pull a Merlin for a [TS]

  second nice pictures [TS]

  those are pictures of me and the Diablo [TS]

  in the concussion i'll scan a couple [TS]

  after the show em anyway speaking of [TS]

  Merlin this episode is once again [TS]

  sponsored by Squarespace and yeah so you [TS]

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  show and thank you for thank you to [TS]

  squarespace for supporting us once again [TS]

  i was thinking of stories that have [TS]

  influenced our car opinions are [TS]

  formative car experiences I thought of [TS]

  one more for me this was when I was [TS]

  gonna hold it wasn't so bad the time but [TS]

  i would I was young before i could drive [TS]

  was maybe 10 years old or something so [TS]

  my family he didn't even have the the [TS]

  mazda minivan at that point I just had [TS]

  the Volvo station wagon and we [TS]

  previously had a series of american cars [TS]

  plus the Volkswagen Rabbit very long [TS]

  time ago when I was very young so I have [TS]

  never had experience with like nice cars [TS]

  i guess i mean the volvo is kind of nice [TS]

  it was like you p car but they weren't [TS]

  bubbles were not as nice back then as [TS]

  they are now in terms of luxury they [TS]

  were more utilitarian and scandinavian [TS]

  and weird and we had a cheap all it did [TS]

  was not a nice car really so this was [TS]

  with a friend's car and I was going with [TS]

  a friend to go skiing i think we're [TS]

  going to win them just in upstate New [TS]

  York maybe it was a different matter but [TS]

  i'm pretty sure wasn't and we were [TS]

  driving up with just me my friend and [TS]

  his father and his father ran ever have [TS]

  a towing business and they weren't rich [TS]

  by any means but they had you know more [TS]

  money than the average middle class [TS]

  family and his father with his little [TS]

  bit of extra money had bought a used [TS]

  Mercedes was an old s-class it was like [TS]

  maybe an eighties early early to mid 80s [TS]

  class and it was maybe you know a couple [TS]

  a couple years old it wasn't like you [TS]

  know whenever a generation after the the [TS]

  s classes are available at that time [TS]

  maybe two generations later I and we [TS]

  drove up the skin place and I remember [TS]

  the drive up i was probably just in the [TS]

  backseat or whatever probably just [TS]

  excited to go skiing and I was probably [TS]

  tired because you got to leave like five [TS]

  in the morning if you want to get there [TS]

  at a reasonable time from Long Island [TS]

  ski the whole day and when the day was [TS]

  over we left and my friend wanted to [TS]

  sleep on the in the backseat so we did [TS]

  just laid out across the back seat and i [TS]

  sat in the front seat [TS]

  i I'm the drive back and [TS]

  on the drive back very early in the dr [TS]

  what I want to say is a black ford probe [TS]

  was sort of you know driving around us [TS]

  and immediately there became this game [TS]

  between my friend's father and the ford [TS]

  probe of I don't know what the game is [TS]

  like we would pass them and he would [TS]

  pass awesome you pass them but you know [TS]

  kind of driving way too fast and [TS]

  competitive manner of it in a playful [TS]

  competitive manner with another car and [TS]

  so I was in this big letter C that never [TS]

  sent a legacy before in my life to see [TS]

  this i believe it was heated but it [TS]

  could have just been body heat windows [TS]

  I'm playing with the little pictographic [TS]

  a/c controls which by the way are one of [TS]

  the most brilliant user interface [TS]

  innovations in cars i don't know [TS]

  Mercedes invented them but i think they [TS]

  popularized the on talking about [TS]

  absolutely you're absolutely right when [TS]

  you reach it you know that is another [TS]

  example of no touchscreen is helping you [TS]

  there are no voice command is helping [TS]

  that that control is just so far [TS]

  superior and whoever come up with [TS]

  instead of the old things like four [TS]

  buttons you have to keep pressing each [TS]

  44 which ones that make the little [TS]

  picture of the seat anyway I had [TS]

  adjusted to the strange angle or some [TS]

  sort of nestled in there and I'm sort of [TS]

  hunched down and I'm little right and [TS]

  what I'm looking at is that the back of [TS]

  the ford probe darting in front of us [TS]

  and going back and forth and I'm looking [TS]

  at my friends father's speedometer and [TS]

  tachometer as he drives you know it's [TS]

  it's an s-class Mercedes is not a fast [TS]

  carbon atom v8 and it was you know [TS]

  relatively quick and so how is that not [TS]

  as we are well past Mercedes of the big [TS]

  boat once but so incredibly smooth like [TS]

  it felt like I was floating on a piece [TS]

  of glass and so solid feeling and so [TS]

  silent i didn't know cars could even be [TS]

  like this and we're going tremendously [TS]

  fast touching a hundred several times [TS]

  which was just I was you know giddy with [TS]

  joy this entire time trying not to let [TS]

  like I was trying to pretend like i was [TS]

  like half asleep trying not to let my [TS]

  friends know that I was giddy that he [TS]

  was doing this with all the cars seem [TS]

  like it's something illicit was going on [TS]

  it was exciting but that changed how I [TS]

  viewed cars that that they can be you [TS]

  know so different than all the other [TS]

  cars that i experienced and that you [TS]

  could drive that quickly in that much [TS]

  comfort in silence and have that much [TS]

  fun and not have it be like you know [TS]

  terrifying like it was when you went [TS]

  over 60 in the volatile that that really [TS]

  changed my view of cars make that [TS]

  probably started me on reading car mag [TS]

  seems and prior to that I was not into [TS]

  them if you're out there mr. de celis [TS]

  thank you for that [TS]

  that drive was exciting and I'm glad you [TS]

  didn't kill me whatever happened [TS]

  involving I know they're still around i [TS]

  know it was at 42 bought them somebody [TS]

  forward for it took a large amount of [TS]

  ownership once that happens here days [TS]

  it's like GM taken over a sob yeah like [TS]

  that because I mean I still see Volvo's [TS]

  around and I remember when we were [TS]

  looking for tips car looking at all the [TS]

  different hatchbacks and everything we [TS]

  did have to go to a volvo dealer look at [TS]

  the c30 and its first of all it's pretty [TS]

  hard to even find a volvo dealer in a [TS]

  lot of places including including around [TS]

  here like we have to go really far away [TS]

  to find one and it just doesn't seem [TS]

  like I still see them occasionally but [TS]

  it doesn't seem like they're selling [TS]

  very well guys I think I still might see [TS]

  sobs more than I see all those yeah [TS]

  they're very very expensive cars and [TS]

  they usually don't pair up with equally [TS]

  price cars in terms of any single factor [TS]

  the one thing you've always had going [TS]

  for it is two balls companies obsession [TS]

  with safety right which is probably why [TS]

  my parents got one and why i'm at i was [TS]

  interested in them as well because back [TS]

  when they were an independent company [TS]

  and we're making their own platforms and [TS]

  like calling all the shots their own [TS]

  things that they were just so incredibly [TS]

  obsessed with safety that they would [TS]

  sacrifice everything else for their cars [TS]

  would be ugly they would not be fast [TS]

  they would be heavy they would be noisy [TS]

  they would take the drivetrains wouldn't [TS]

  be good like and you just knew [TS]

  everything in that car was centered [TS]

  around making it safe and I think [TS]

  there's a place in the market for a car [TS]

  companies that are obsessed with one [TS]

  particular aspect of you wanted safety [TS]

  when it wasn't just like all marketing [TS]

  like was like oh we really care about [TS]

  safety so by our cars like they devoted [TS]

  resources and you know car designers and [TS]

  scientists and research to safety and [TS]

  we're willing to sacrifice like willing [TS]

  to make that trade-off with the other [TS]

  aspects of their cars but once you know [TS]

  apparently it wasn't enough of the [TS]

  markets the same then once they have to [TS]

  take on the forward stuff then it's like [TS]

  oh we should really have a common [TS]

  platform in common drivetrain and maybe [TS]

  your next ball will just be a reskin [TS]

  forward we care about safety too and is [TS]

  that what happened to solve in a while [TS]

  then it's not they're not risking force [TS]

  but they want more platforms sharing [TS]

  Iran that was sabzi more like that that [TS]

  sob and GM they wanted them to you know [TS]

  share more parts with the GM [TS]

  you know platforms and stuff like that [TS]

  is just it once you lose what's unique [TS]

  about the thing and you're trying to [TS]

  stick to contain like you know bad [TS]

  marketing were like you're just you're [TS]

  just buying a plane lgm heart's been car [TS]

  with red John it you know yeah that that [TS]

  that's do mentoring I don't know what [TS]

  caused the downfall of these companies [TS]

  it's probably just that maybe it's not [TS]

  as big a market as they think those [TS]

  things maybe it's just that the the [TS]

  fixed baseline cost of being a car [TS]

  company so large that you can't just be [TS]

  you know unless here at the super duper [TS]

  high end that is uncomfortable middle [TS]

  ground like if your Ferrari fine you can [TS]

  make a small number of cars you can [TS]

  build a couple by Fiat so what am I [TS]

  saying but in that middle ground where [TS]

  you're not selling SuperDuper expensive [TS]

  cars but you do want to sell a lot of [TS]

  them but they're weird i don't know how [TS]

  you don't know how do you sustain right [TS]

  like cars were you can't really compete [TS]

  very well on price but you have to come [TS]

  pretty close and so like you you're not [TS]

  going to be like no one's ever going to [TS]

  name you the best value you do have some [TS]

  fans but they're not going to spend 300 [TS]

  grand for your cars like Ferraris so [TS]

  it's more like yeah people like shot and [TS]

  you have the regular cars to sustain you [TS]

  like it forward can afford to have all [TS]

  sorts of weird cars because they have [TS]

  like their bread and butter car that's [TS]

  ok that'll bring in the money and then [TS]

  we're going to four are you know like [TS]

  you know chrysler can afford will almost [TS]

  ditch the Viper can afford to have the [TS]

  vibrant sell lots of boring car to [TS]

  support them but if your volleyball you [TS]

  sell these weird safety focus cars that [TS]

  previously were very ugly and they're [TS]

  not they're not as nice driving cars BMW [TS]

  using it and then I don't have much cash [TS]

  a is a Mercedes and not even is good [TS]

  cars that like and the other thing is i [TS]

  think other company started their lunch [TS]

  because Mercedes is also almost as [TS]

  maniacally safety focused as always and [TS]

  that's like the bumper right up against [TS]

  each other it's like well ball was [TS]

  really really stay focused but Mercedes [TS]

  pretty focus to and having other aspects [TS]

  that I like so well so let's go out [TS]

  there and they're still nice cars but [TS]

  they're there are so many safety [TS]

  regulations now with cars and and all [TS]

  the crash testing that we do now that I [TS]

  feel like the entire industry stepped up [TS]

  their game with safety especially in the [TS]

  nineties and and since then even more [TS]

  and so it seems like if your specialty [TS]

  is safety then your your advantages he [TS]

  wrote it when the rest of the industry [TS]

  gets pretty damn i don't think i don't [TS]

  think the advantage was eroded because [TS]

  I'm [TS]

  that in in relative terms it was not I [TS]

  feel like they like they held the lead [TS]

  right up to the point where their [TS]

  engineer stop being able to design their [TS]

  cars and I have to just you know slap [TS]

  badges on Ford stuff but like it [TS]

  the absolute level raised up so like [TS]

  even though the relative distance was [TS]

  still very big everyone else had gone up [TS]

  so much higher you've got a prior to [TS]

  like is the difference between design [TS]

  your car so that it passes the safety [TS]

  test and designing your car so that it's [TS]

  so safe that even if you did even by not [TS]

  paying attention to safety testing just [TS]

  passes all of them as you know like like [TS]

  we know the exact massive speeds and [TS]

  angles that the collisions are going to [TS]

  happen and all these standardized tests [TS]

  and all these different countries so we [TS]

  design our car so it survives all those [TS]

  perfectly fine but if you hit a slightly [TS]

  different angle or slightly different [TS]

  speed it wouldn't survive as well [TS]

  involved just want to make a tank that [TS]

  hit me from any angle we don't care [TS]

  we're gonna survive everything and we're [TS]

  you know we're gonna go crazy with the [TS]

  safety stuff that I mean they're still [TS]

  out there still doing the stuff with the [TS]

  you know car that will stop itself if it [TS]

  senses your about that something like [TS]

  almost self-driving car type stuff [TS]

  they're adding an electronics you know [TS]

  that's the new frontier of safety [TS]

  against besides just building your car [TS]

  like a tank right but yeah probably [TS]

  probably their error is a pioneer has [TS]

  has passed them by [TS]

  and unfortunately building a car like a [TS]

  tank is is no longer that easy with fuel [TS]

  efficiency requirements [TS]

  absolutely because if you want to build [TS]

  like a tank needs to weigh as much as a [TS]

  tank and and that's obviously contrary [TS]

  also not if you put no sound deadening [TS]

  material in it like our Volvo wagon you [TS]

  could hear every pedal clicking [TS]

  underneath the car yet what year was [TS]

  that also mean I was 1781 follow wagon [TS]

  yeah that was before a lot of stuff was [TS]

  required that takes up more weight and [TS]

  and before this the fuel emission [TS]

  standards and and efficiency standards [TS]

  are so strict right now like eat that [TS]

  the the standard so aggressive for [TS]

  especially the US and actually i think i [TS]

  think in Europe they're even more [TS]

  aggressive aren't in many ways but the [TS]

  standard so aggressive that there's a [TS]

  lot less room for individuality it 44 [TS]

  wildly different priorities in car [TS]

  design among all the big brands because [TS]

  now it's like like you have to have this [TS]

  certain average of fuel economy among [TS]

  your line and [TS]

  all the cards have to be at least this [TS]

  and if you do this and that attack [TS]

  accessory John I think it's mostly a [TS]

  cost concerns like we can make cars [TS]

  fuel-efficient just depending on cost [TS]

  like you all you gotta do is lighter [TS]

  materials is so easy to do but lighter [TS]

  materials cost more money so i think i [TS]

  think we're standardization hurts the [TS]

  most [TS]

  safety standardization particular hurts [TS]

  the most is in styling variation because [TS]

  you cannot pass this the arbitrary test [TS]

  safety bumper crash-test types things [TS]

  without some minimal overhang size like [TS]

  unless you use exotic materials when you [TS]

  have a price problem so that's why i [TS]

  like the the porsche boxster concept [TS]

  that everybody loved the first actual [TS]

  boxed off the assembly line like the [TS]

  production version did not look nearly [TS]

  as good you like well it's like the same [TS]

  thing is it but now they had to make all [TS]

  the overhangs bigger and make everything [TS]

  wide around like you can't make almost [TS]

  concept cars look amazing [TS]

  none of them would pass the US safety [TS]

  that standards and it impacts styling it [TS]

  impacts how you can make a real car [TS]

  looks like a concept car not because of [TS]

  you know materials or anything all [TS]

  documents is because of styling you just [TS]

  you just have to put these bloated puffy [TS]

  things all around it because it's not [TS]

  tenable to make a car that looks like [TS]

  you know what you want from concept cars [TS]

  is not a lot of space around the wheels [TS]

  in the wheel wells not very long [TS]

  overhangs very low slung you know all [TS]

  sorts of things that are terrible for [TS]

  safety but look really cool help [TS]

  well it's not why the the kidneys on the [TS]

  BMW are no longer touch the hood [TS]

  I thought that was the case because the [TS]

  kidneys on my car in the onion nineties [TS]

  there they stay put when you open the [TS]

  hood in it and for the longest time as [TS]

  far as I was aware when you raise the [TS]

  hood the kidneys one with them when i [TS]

  went with the hood on BMWs and I thought [TS]

  that was because of pedestrian safety [TS]

  that that changed in later you might [TS]

  because they're like especially cars [TS]

  designed for the European market have to [TS]

  do a lot more pedestrian safety than we [TS]

  have in the US and any and you can see [TS]

  this with almost all of the recent [TS]

  designs from BMW and audi and mercedes [TS]

  you can see how the Mercedes never [TS]

  really had this problem because their [TS]

  cars are always big boxes on the front [TS]

  there they're still trying to soften [TS]

  their their previous styling but like [TS]

  cars that used to have more angular [TS]

  pointy fronts those can't exist anymore [TS]

  really because of the pedestrian safety [TS]

  things that we [TS]

  the idea being if you if you hit a [TS]

  pedestrian on the front of your car then [TS]

  if it's shaped in a certain way they [TS]

  will fall or be impacted in a way less [TS]

  likely to injure them and somewhat i [TS]

  don't know i don't know the details i [TS]

  have to have the airbags for the people [TS]

  that yes absent those are great ideas [TS]

  you know one area that BMW was ahead in [TS]

  terms of modern front-end styling is [TS]

  that Mercedes had used to have the like [TS]

  the three-pointed star in a circle [TS]

  sticking vertically up and out of their [TS]

  thing ready whenever these rice has [TS]

  rolls-royce has the Spirit of Ecstasy [TS]

  thing there and everything and so people [TS]

  would yank those things off of mercedes [TS]

  and that's why rolls-royce now when you [TS]

  park the car the little Spirit of [TS]

  Ecstasy thing Goes Down Goes Down like a [TS]

  little elevator into your car so when [TS]

  your way no one will steal it all but [TS]

  because that's a very popular thing to [TS]

  do but BMW as far as i know we're always [TS]

  had the propeller logo flat like you [TS]

  know not sticking out not something [TS]

  that's easy to rip off not something [TS]

  that's going to impale the pedestrian [TS]

  yeah and actually a to go back just a [TS]

  quick step marco i do believe that Volvo [TS]

  has a european delivery program if you'd [TS]

  like to change your mind about the m5 [TS]

  they're made in Europe all these swedish [TS]

  are they not still like today they're [TS]

  still made over there I think that [TS]

  surprised i'm not going to lie i'm [TS]

  probably in trouble involving friends I [TS]

  don't know how much platform sharing [TS]

  there is both forward maybe they've [TS]

  maybe there's to maintain complete [TS]

  independence i'm not sure but like I [TS]

  should slide over too much because the [TS]

  ball was the first nice car that my [TS]

  parents bought after like I was in [TS]

  college and my sister things out of [TS]

  college and like they decided okay but [TS]

  it's safe for us to buy a nice car they [TS]

  leased a volvo v70 which was the first [TS]

  like actual sporty volvo is still kinda [TS]

  looks like a box but it had you know [TS]

  low-profile alloy wheels and a [TS]

  turbocharged five-cylinder engine and it [TS]

  was so much faster than the minivan let [TS]

  me tell you the other city is what was [TS]

  the what was there a sedan variant [TS]

  similar to this is at least the v70 was [TS]

  a man obviously actually wagon online [TS]

  yeah we didn't have the wagon me the [TS]

  sedan was black it looked like yeah if [TS]

  your cars like we get it in black you [TS]

  know it you if you squinted it look like [TS]

  a fancy hybrid the wheels in particular [TS]

  look a little slanted propeller things [TS]

  if you're looking at it [TS]

  alloy wheels with those little things [TS]

  that was just the hottest car [TS]

  my family has ever owned yeah we had a [TS]

  not not great to drive but it was really [TS]

  fast [TS]

  I was friends with a Volvo family and in [TS]

  high school and still stone from them [TS]

  actually but like they did kind of [TS]

  family that all they ever had was all [TS]

  those for a long time I they probably [TS]

  did happen anymore works kind of always [TS]

  problem but it was on it and this was [TS]

  like they're like the first really [TS]

  awesome fancy car that i was in a [TS]

  regular basis was one looks very similar [TS]

  to this but it was it was definitely a [TS]

  sedan bill it was probably the same [TS]

  generation probably from the same year [TS]

  like like 98 97 something like that and [TS]

  break our fast and actually the only [TS]

  accident I was ever in that was [TS]

  meaningful at all was a in their old [TS]

  Volvo that they let their son my friend [TS]

  drive and it was it you know you know [TS]

  the votes from probably the early [TS]

  eighties maybe that everybody had it's [TS]

  just like the sedan with like those like [TS]

  slatted headrests you know everyone has [TS]

  these gonna get everyone's leaving use [TS]

  you know everyone a headrest to expand [TS]

  too many cars are many generations i [TS]

  think it's still involved directly [TS]

  signature one of their signature things [TS]

  i think i would have looked at a modern [TS]

  why would they keep that hope they were [TS]

  terrible the whole thing is they had a [TS]

  big head rest covered the whole back of [TS]

  your head instead of just being a little [TS]

  knob that was like the nape of your neck [TS]

  you know like seventies and sixties like [TS]

  they said no we're gonna have a whole [TS]

  thing behind your head looks incredibly [TS]

  dorky but anyway it was a it was one of [TS]

  those like ancient Volvo's we're like [TS]

  5th gear was a button instead of being [TS]

  on the hill acutely it was a stick but [TS]

  like 50 was like an overdrive . on [TS]

  overdrive yeah the press the overdrive [TS]

  button and it wouldn't engage a lot of [TS]

  time yes and I mean a lot of things that [TS]

  card didn't work obviously didn't have [TS]

  air conditioning or if it did it had [TS]

  long since broken it you know like that [TS]

  the stereo would only work sometimes and [TS]

  some stations and yeah lots of problems [TS]

  but anyway yeah only maximize every was [TS]

  in that ancient volvo that my friend is [TS]

  driving where he just like he ran a red [TS]

  light in a rainstorm a little bit and [TS]

  hit somebody turning left and just you [TS]

  know head-to-head low-speed the entire [TS]

  front of the car like the whole hood [TS]

  just crumbled [TS]

  and I remember if at first thinking wow [TS]

  I thought those were supposed to be safe [TS]

  and then eventually I realized well [TS]

  that's exactly what it's supposed to do [TS]

  and it's it takes all the impact on the [TS]

  front section so that doesn't reach the [TS]

  passenger compartment like obviously [TS]

  that's that's a good thing but at the [TS]

  time like I remember thinking that was [TS]

  not a very strong impact to cause that [TS]

  amount of visual damage but hey it was a [TS]

  safe car and then they his parents gave [TS]

  him the other one he crashed that one a [TS]

  few years later [TS]

  nice but this is bothering me that i [TS]

  can't find a picture of my dance cards [TS]

  now I don't know [TS]

  now I don't know [TS]

  it was the v70 r and s 70 I'm having [TS]

  such trouble finding pretty sure it was [TS]

  not to be 70 because wikipedia seems to [TS]

  think 370 was a wagon it was well thank [TS]

  you guys don't know what the bed was it [TS]

  was the was the first honest I gotta [TS]

  find this cars really probably maybe i'm [TS]

  looking at the wikipedia it looks like [TS]

  it's the s74 sort something very similar [TS]

  if it's not that it might have been back [TS]

  when they were numbers like 850 850 [TS]

  turbo no yes I've forgotten about that i [TS]

  thought but you're right now I'm looking [TS]

  at know the one I'm thinking of at least [TS]

  almost positive was like a nineteen [TS]

  ninety eight or so s70 yeah anyway [TS]

  meanwhile we all good haha nothing is [TS]

  nothing more interesting to listen to a [TS]

  podcast about people browsing the [TS]

  internet the magic of editing know [TS]

  you'll fix this fix it yeah of course [TS]

  yeah [TS]

  what what's the there are some things [TS]

  that are almost as interesting is that [TS]

  though there are things like a podcast [TS]

  about skype problems [TS]

  those are always fun and follow follow [TS]

  very closely by podcast about podcasting [TS]

  equipment that's that's almost always oh [TS]

  yeah what kind of bike do you have oh [TS]

  yeah what kind of headphones do you have [TS]

  you got a mixer with that we recording [TS]

  into logic [TS]

  yeah really using some compression yeah [TS]

  that's awesome you're making me false [TS]

  yeah isn't it great [TS]

  I have other topics but they're all [TS]

  pretty big you wanna know why the i [TS]

  don't know i don't want to dress them [TS]

  now i guess i will say one thing though [TS]

  it has nothing to do with what we've [TS]

  talked about so far but I keep almost [TS]

  forgetting to bring this up so you know [TS]

  a few few decades ago by now maybe a [TS]

  decade ago [TS]

  yeah about a decade ago there is the [TS]

  trend where all the cars briefly had [TS]

  alltel style taillights and i'm sure you [TS]

  guys know those are ya the the ones were [TS]

  all the lights are like in little [TS]

  circles and it's like clear and silver [TS]

  ya thinkin uh what were you however you [TS]

  describe those I've never heard that [TS]

  term altes you do you know here at the [TS]

  history that basically a you know jack [TS]

  about it is it's there was a japanese [TS]

  version of the lexus is it was released [TS]

  their called the altezza like the very [TS]

  first model in like like 99 2000 [TS]

  something around there [TS]

  and briefly or it that the style of its [TS]

  tail lights basically rather than having [TS]

  the whole square of the brake light be [TS]

  read just the middle circle of it was [TS]

  red and the whole rest of it was silver [TS]

  and a clear reflector so that your [TS]

  lights were mostly looking silver least [TS]

  a little bit of red in the middle and [TS]

  this style carbon and became kind of a [TS]

  design fat and cars for probably good [TS]

  five years where for those fight like [TS]

  the Nissan Altima did a really really [TS]

  brute force copy job of it where it [TS]

  looked terrible [TS]

  chances are if you picture nissan altima [TS]

  you will probably picture the model i'm [TS]

  thinking of where just had this [TS]

  tremendous ugly alternative style [TS]

  taillight [TS]

  so anyway those look terrible and I [TS]

  started thinking about light stylings [TS]

  and what seems to be going on now is the [TS]

  daylight running lights turning into [TS]

  rings or lines or other like vector [TS]

  shapes made from leds in or you know why [TS]

  for their brand it's okay i so like I [TS]

  think the coming to started doing this [TS]

  in the modern style first i think is [TS]

  probably audi would you say like we're [TS]

  like the the audi and he started doing [TS]

  the LED rings in like angular shapes and [TS]

  lines around the headlights [TS]

  I think before everyone else is that no [TS]

  no way not before BMW angel eyes really [TS]

  i well I don't know you're actually [TS]

  enjoy it will hold I don't know if he is [TS]

  looking around for this for describing [TS]

  that ok so i was going to say those [TS]

  Angel Eyes in at least when they were [TS]

  new were not led so if we're staying [TS]

  strictly leds and you're right they [TS]

  don't care i think is so and John you're [TS]

  talking about this this trend now the [TS]

  ugly headlights on audis and BMWs about [TS]

  those so and i know the ultimate you're [TS]

  talking about I did I don't mind the [TS]

  ultimate taillights as much as you seem [TS]

  to be out there it was just so much [TS]

  silver and it looked at and light felt [TS]

  all that anyway so so now it's funny how [TS]

  like in the last few years as LED [TS]

  headlights are starting to filter into [TS]

  two more models or at least as an option [TS]

  as a high [TS]

  and option we're seeing a lot of brands [TS]

  kind of tackle this themselves and I [TS]

  think almost all of them look awful [TS]

  I think out these look great and and I [TS]

  think we're struggling so where you [TS]

  think you think the little the little [TS]

  accent line eyebrow things that are you [TS]

  look great [TS]

  usually there are some models really go [TS]

  kind of weird because what about the [TS]

  thing is like it felt like the way the [TS]

  car in front of a car [TS]

  usually it kind of folks are facing ways [TS]

  as you always like to say John this is [TS]

  kind of like mascara or eyeliner is what [TS]

  it smells like scarring but someone's [TS]

  got a symmetric it's like it's this is [TS]

  very bold accent that usually has a very [TS]

  distinct shape to be visible from a [TS]

  while away and you can identify and say [TS]

  oh that's an outie and and they are [TS]

  kinda shaped like like eyeliner around [TS]

  the headlights and and so like some cars [TS]

  do it really well look really awesome [TS]

  and some cars it just looks terrible on [TS]

  and like what I even saw the other day [TS]

  this is what do you think about talking [TS]

  about it I saw somebody had added this [TS]

  their car with an aftermarket [TS]

  modification [TS]

  yeah and and what it appeared that they [TS]

  did i'm not sure if this was like an [TS]

  ironic comment on these things or or if [TS]

  it was actually a legitimate attempt to [TS]

  to add these to their car [TS]

  it appeared as though they had just [TS]

  somehow attached white tube lights like [TS]

  christmas lights like you see in college [TS]

  dorms as tube robot knows it [TS]

  thats it seemed like they just like tape [TS]

  those on around the headlights in the [TS]

  approximate shape of Audis and I mean it [TS]

  looked hilarious it was so bad and and [TS]

  we'll do a whole episode sometime on [TS]

  aftermarket modifications and and good [TS]

  and bad but i don't know i mean like [TS]

  what do you guys think of these things I [TS]

  i just think that it's one of these [TS]

  design elements I i think we're going to [TS]

  see similar to what we were saying back [TS]

  in the episode about digital speedometer [TS]

  screens and and turning into those [TS]

  things I think we're going to see a [TS]

  period over the next five years or so [TS]

  where people are going to go a little [TS]

  bit too crazy car designer going to a [TS]

  little bit too crazy with these weird [TS]

  led eyeliner headlight things and it's [TS]

  gonna we're gonna have some [TS]

  periods are really extreme tackiness [TS]

  before we get back to like pulling back [TS]

  to an average common way of using this I [TS]

  hope they I hope they learn the lesson [TS]

  about it because I he's kind of taking [TS]

  one for the team by by being a luxury [TS]

  brand having enough money to you know to [TS]

  put those leds on all these cars is a [TS]

  characteristic and so everyone can look [TS]

  at the audi line and say we don't want [TS]

  to do that so lets you know hopefully [TS]

  rain their people and because i think [TS]

  that takes the front of a part like I [TS]

  like the friend of most Abby's except [TS]

  except for maybe the giant grill from [TS]

  floor to ceiling and it ruins it just [TS]

  like it depends on the shape of the [TS]

  accent line so max online better than [TS]

  others but all of them make the [TS]

  front-end look worse than it would [TS]

  without those lights on i feel like in [TS]

  so when you know it comes down so your [TS]

  you know your ford focus on your honda [TS]

  civic can afford to have LED lighting [TS]

  everywhere hopefully we will have [TS]

  converged on on something looks nice i [TS]

  think the main objection I have two [TS]

  little Audi things is that they they [TS]

  seem like they're drawn on the face they [TS]

  don't conform to the shape of the car or [TS]

  the headlights they're not they're not [TS]

  part of the styling their yeah here's [TS]

  the starting of the car looks nice and [TS]

  then draw the squiggly line in front of [TS]

  the school I'm does not it's not part of [TS]

  the body lines it's not part of the air [TS]

  flow lines it's like it's like a little [TS]

  Groucho Marx mustache you drawn a [TS]

  picture of someone you don't know what [TS]

  that is in front of those cars [TS]

  yeah that's what your dad you're totally [TS]

  right about that I totally see that and [TS]

  that is because that you're right they [TS]

  always kind of look they look [TS]

  artificially tacked on you know as bad [TS]

  as their the taping the rope lights to [TS]

  your thing but just more expensive [TS]

  version right [TS]

  see I look at it a little differently [TS]

  and I guess I i don't really have an [TS]

  opinion one way or the other whether or [TS]

  not like Audi's are good or bad I have [TS]

  to me it's I don't really care but the [TS]

  way I look at it and I've looked at it [TS]

  this way even before I got a BMW and [TS]

  forgot that there are other cars that [TS]

  are good [TS]

  I'm nervous now I don't know but [TS]

  supposedly they're out there i don't [TS]

  remember anymore [TS]

  I know anyway I the way I look at it is [TS]

  you know BMW the angel eyes for a long [TS]

  time I i don't i'm not going to venture [TS]

  a guess a number but I but it's been [TS]

  awhile that they've had the angel eyes [TS]

  and I don't to my recollection I don't [TS]

  know of any other car maker that did [TS]

  anything equivalent and then i think [TS]

  around the time that Audi or Mercedes or [TS]

  whomever were like hey man we should [TS]

  jump on that band [TS]

  dragon at that time I think the [TS]

  technology that improves such that leds [TS]

  not only were they able to be used in an [TS]

  affordable way but also as a [TS]

  differentiator away from the angel eyes [TS]

  so look we've got fancy leds aren't we [TS]

  so special and I just feel like it's a [TS]

  kind of it it's just a ripoff it's like [TS]

  the Samsung inning of BMW not a rip off [TS]

  its own thing I give a total credit for [TS]

  being its own thing because like that [TS]

  you know the BMW thing was that circles [TS]

  to two circles that's you know that's [TS]

  what BMW headlights look like and you [TS]

  know forever right and Audi's are fried [TS]

  eggs they're not they're not surprised [TS]

  they didn't you know they're there [TS]

  friday with Groucho Marx mustache [TS]

  shutdown my ID doing something [TS]

  distinctive with your headlights not you [TS]

  can't fence off the entire region of [TS]

  change and i don't i don't see this is a [TS]

  rebel even though like I'm actually [TS]

  amazed this is actually a great example [TS]

  of how competition is supposed to work [TS]

  audi BMW and uh Mercedes all you know [TS]

  sort of neighbors to each other right [TS]

  all competing in the same market and yet [TS]

  not producing copycat cars like there [TS]

  are distinct you know they have distinct [TS]

  personalities styling wise i feel like [TS]

  they're you know they're they're all [TS]

  very distinct from each other in every [TS]

  possible way and this is in stark [TS]

  contrast to like Toyota wants to get [TS]

  into luxury market so it makes a Toyota [TS]

  Mercedes like the lexus ls400 the [TS]

  original model was basically a complete [TS]

  ripoff of the Mercedes in terms of [TS]

  styling and and you know every possible [TS]

  aspect and you know it better than [TS]

  Mercedes was way cheaper like it was a [TS]

  great car and everything but it was so [TS]

  clearly that was a samsung what likes to [TS]

  Mercedes that was totally a samsung [TS]

  saying but I feel like those three guys [TS]

  out of mercedes and BMW for the most [TS]

  part are following their own paths and [TS]

  producing lines of cars that are [TS]

  distinct i would say that's true in [TS]

  their styling that they they very rarely [TS]

  rip anything off styling wise from each [TS]

  other and go or really from anybody for [TS]

  that matter all three of them tend to [TS]

  have very original styles and and [TS]

  styling elements but they rip each other [TS]

  off constantly on features and on on and [TS]

  what model introducing yeah you know and [TS]

  just I guess to some extent you kind of [TS]

  have to do that but like like almost [TS]

  every valid like most everything new [TS]

  model that comes out from one of them is [TS]

  a response to the success that another [TS]

  crazy model from the other [TS]

  and had been having recently like we [TS]

  like we discussed in a few episodes ago [TS]

  the audi a7 the audi a7 is a direct [TS]

  ripoff of the Mercedes I the CLS there's [TS]

  one of its like it looks just like this [TS]

  is not a better thing by the development [TS]

  times for car platforms are so long [TS]

  where everyone is starting like everyone [TS]

  had started there [TS]

  we're gonna make SUVs project like [TS]

  Mercedes got their m-class out before [TS]

  the other guys but everyone had started [TS]

  that project we need an SUV platform and [TS]

  it's like it's it's simultaneous [TS]

  invention because of what the market [TS]

  wants and so like depending on who got [TS]

  there first and like kind of staggered [TS]

  you know where you know a couple years [TS]

  ahead of you guys in our project the [TS]

  development times when these things are [TS]

  so long ago I know we have to make some [TS]

  sort of coop hybrid cross over like [TS]

  that's popular now they all started the [TS]

  project those things you've got them you [TS]

  know and they come out of different [TS]

  times and just because like I don't know [TS]

  who is the first one with the ugly coupe [TS]

  you know thing that came out with like [TS]

  he was calling the a7 ripoff of the CLS [TS]

  or something like it just who beats you [TS]

  buy a couple years so it's not like the [TS]

  other one saw that one and you started a [TS]

  multi-year project to produce that that [TS]

  car very rarely is that the case I feel [TS]

  like all of them are going forward in [TS]

  the same direction and kind of making [TS]

  obvious moves and it's just a question [TS]

  of who is program who has a platform [TS]

  it's great that all actually we're [TS]

  arriving the class platform that's what [TS]

  we want to use you gotta wait until the [TS]

  new e-class comes out and then you can [TS]

  you know produce your ugly crossover [TS]

  thing or whatever so I i give them the [TS]

  benefit of the doubt here and like when [TS]

  we talk about samsung we're talking [TS]

  about stuff we're like use the same [TS]

  freaking icons for the control lights [TS]

  like it's that's what we're talking [TS]

  about what we're not saying hey you [TS]

  decide to make a smartphone to and [TS]

  that's what we're talking about like oh [TS]

  so you have off automatic following just [TS]

  a suggestion cruise control they're all [TS]

  going to happen everyone's gonna do that [TS]

  you know it that's a fair point i guess [TS]

  the thing that that that makes me feel [TS]

  the lights issue specifically a little [TS]

  bit different is because if I'm honest I [TS]

  i guess you could say that the the angel [TS]

  eyes are daytime running lights I think [TS]

  strictly speaking that's what BMW [TS]

  considers them but rather than just [TS]

  having a dim regular light they made a [TS]

  statement by having the angel eyes [TS]

  separate sites and right into me that [TS]

  was the the orders genesis of doing [TS]

  something having like bespoke lighting [TS]

  and so that's why I feel the lighting is [TS]

  a little bit of an also-ran or me too me [TS]

  too [TS]

  because everyone was like well you can [TS]

  always see him [TS]

  BMW coming down the road because you've [TS]

  got the four circles looking at you feel [TS]

  like he should have had that lighting [TS]

  style like damn it actually is not for [TS]

  you right now separated writer kidneys [TS]

  is a really good . i never considered [TS]

  but you know that I guess a lot of edges [TS]

  to me the lights are all the different [TS]

  although by and large I agree with [TS]

  everything both you guys just said night [TS]

  and I do think that the three makes do a [TS]

  very good job of taking a unique spin on [TS]

  on designs especially on body styles [TS]

  even if they're they're effectively the [TS]

  same car or even just things like [TS]

  powertrains or what it feels like to be [TS]

  in ya hard drive them like it various [TS]

  times they've swapped places and stuff [TS]

  my least everyone is how Mercedes used [TS]

  to be ugly boring and Audi and BMW sleek [TS]

  and nice and then BMW became mutant and [TS]

  ugly and Mercedes all the sudden got [TS]

  interesting looking like that type of [TS]

  horse trading and how to use to be the [TS]

  also-ran with the unintended [TS]

  acceleration thing pushing them out of [TS]

  the US market for a while not out but [TS]

  like you know yeah I don't know if they [TS]

  were actually left the market but they [TS]

  had a dark time and then they were [TS]

  researching now these cavities kind of [TS]

  like the Apple where it's like they were [TS]

  counted out who's just BMW Mercedes and [TS]

  now he's coming roaring back and you [TS]

  know by selling good cars that people [TS]

  like and competing with this two big [TS]

  guys so that those three companies are [TS]

  are an interesting story and I also feel [TS]

  like we have a different view of those [TS]

  three companies in the US because again [TS]

  i imagine you know in Europe this cars [TS]

  by these manufacturers that are not [TS]

  fancy that are like hatchbacks and stuff [TS]

  that we don't we're always thinking of [TS]

  like you know [TS]

  30 grand plus luxury sedans and coupes [TS]

  and that's all that's what we think we [TS]

  think it was three bands but i guess [TS]

  they're just like regular karmakar not [TS]

  regular but more regular car makers and [TS]

  you're right there let you know in [TS]

  Europe they have mid-range cars whereas [TS]

  here like we only get the high-end [TS]

  models for the most part relatively [TS]

  speaking but there they have a whole [TS]

  mid-range line that just don't bring [TS]

  here be pretty good because they don't [TS]

  think it would be competitive i don't [TS]

  know is that it's also i mean like why [TS]

  don't we have a low-end cars from them [TS]

  is it is it because they don't think [TS]

  they'd be able to compete with my condo [TS]

  and toyota and ford in the u.s. I think [TS]

  that's possible but I think it's also a [TS]

  I don't know anything about marketing [TS]

  but I would assume if it were me making [TS]

  the decisions i don't know that I'd want [TS]

  to water down my brand my brand in the [TS]

  sense that you know these are luxury [TS]

  makes in America and everyone if you see [TS]

  somebody with an audi or BMW or Mercedes [TS]

  you assume either the the implied [TS]

  assumption is this person has done well [TS]

  for him or herself and and so on and so [TS]

  forth words if you have a bunch of [TS]

  basically Volkswagen golf's running [TS]

  around then that's the predominant model [TS]

  that your make is selling in in a [TS]

  country then it's not special anymore [TS]

  it's just another forward yeah that [TS]

  brand stuff it really has an impact [TS]

  because you know if you're talking about [TS]

  cars casually like a gathering and [TS]

  someone says what kind of car you have [TS]

  you say you have a Mercedes they're not [TS]

  picturing a stick shift hatchback with a [TS]

  diesel they're not you know like not the [TS]

  Mercedes probably makes that kind of car [TS]

  anywhere but they used to and you're you [TS]

  know that they have a picture in their [TS]

  mind it is not it's not match back it's [TS]

  not a cheap car it's not a small car [TS]

  it's it's something different and you [TS]

  can't you can't overcome that like you [TS]

  wouldn't want to overcome that when i [TS]

  bring you say I have a BMW they're not [TS]

  picturing that stupid little hatchback [TS]

  thing they tried to sell here 318 [TS]

  whatever the hell it was 318ti or [TS]

  something [TS]

  yep they're they're just they don't [TS]

  they're not picturing that and so you [TS]

  you are like you can't turn people [TS]

  around like you people I feel like if [TS]

  you bought a cheap car like that you [TS]

  would you feel bad is saying that you [TS]

  own a Mercedes because you know what [TS]

  people are thinking and that's not [TS]

  that's not like me that's not the [TS]

  reality and so like I'll pick you up but [TS]

  just look for the red Mercedes and [TS]

  someone's all excited then you come meet [TS]

  me but this will not like I thought you [TS]

  uh it's not you know and that's kind of [TS]

  even total feels that when they make [TS]

  like Toyota is not like a luxury brand [TS]

  by any means but they have a certain [TS]

  reputation and so that you know sion [TS]

  it's like okay well these are going to [TS]

  be really cheap and crappy cars and [TS]

  Toyota isn't trendy with kids and so [TS]

  let's make our own new brand is going to [TS]

  be like the SuperDuper cheap but trendy [TS]

  kid friendly first car you can afford it [TS]

  it's really crappy at Syon you know that [TS]

  everyone is sensitive of not moving [TS]

  their brand off of where wherever it is [TS]

  except apparently BMW was trying to sell [TS]

  that you know [TS]

  80 grand luxury car under the Volkswagen [TS]

  brand and learned a hard lesson is there [TS]

  ever a question like a buying situation [TS]

  in which Sion is the right answer and [TS]

  kids like them i think out there is [TS]

  there's a situation and it's the FRS or [TS]

  whatever it's called [TS]

  oh you know is that is that under the [TS]

  sign friend actually an american top [TS]

  gear it's the gt86 there yeah it's [TS]

  whatever the hell it also here that's [TS]

  gonna be a scion is that working it is [TS]

  it's it's not going down it is okay and [TS]

  I didn't see them on the road and I [TS]

  really like how they look on the road i [TS]

  do as well every minds I still don't [TS]

  like that light treatment or the table [TS]

  and really but the overall shape I like [TS]

  seeing a little rear-wheel-drive [TS]

  Japanese car to our car on the road [TS]

  again completely agree [TS]

  and on that bombshell you know I've [TS]

  actually before we go I i have looked up [TS]

  my face in the chat room i'm ready to [TS]

  college that my parents car was a $YEAR [TS]

  volvo 850 turbo sedan because I the [TS]

  picture I put on that sample colors my [TS]

  dad's car was those the wheels that had [TS]

  which is mostly how much identifying it [TS]

  because i was so excited that we got a [TS]

  car with like it's only because they [TS]

  were standard the only reason we got [TS]

  them we always got the only wheels never [TS]

  spring for the nice one [TS]

  finally we got because you could not get [TS]

  this car with those wheels on and those [TS]

  pliers that looks a lot more low-profile [TS]

  in my memory but compared to compared to [TS]

  the tires on a Honda Civic those are [TS]

  pretty damn aggressive and wide tires [TS]

  yeah actually a time look at the picture [TS]

  i think this was the car my friends had [TS]

  to what you already and there was a [TS]

  little bit more rounded off i think what [TS]

  was the year on this this is like 95 ish [TS]

  something like that like this was the [TS]

  first volvo to make a statement as hey [TS]

  maybe of all those aren't boring anymore [TS]

  like I mean still looking still boxy but [TS]

  it was like look at those wheels and [TS]

  it's actually kind of fast and people [TS]

  were excited I thought I mean I thought [TS]

  the one my friend had was really fast as [TS]

  I would you know I was coming from [TS]

  four-cylinder toyota's and so like [TS]

  relatively speaking [TS]

  it was a very fast car in a straight [TS]

  line i'm trying to turn it was not a [TS]

  flaw still kind of rocked a little bit [TS]

  like a boat but yeah I had many fun [TS]

  stoplight launches in this clear Notre [TS]

  Ohio yeah that's true i've been through [TS]

  Ohio there's nothing in ohio and [TS]

  actually a piece of trivia the the [TS]

  Valentine one that I have which is quite [TS]

  old now actually bought it from a [TS]

  gentleman [TS]

  friend of my dads who had a vegan which [TS]

  was like the hot rod sob at the time are [TS]

  excused hard vote at the time [TS]

  really what no was Assad crap this was [TS]

  totally relevant cut that out [TS]

  not going to I know you're not have some [TS]

  i went to ride a friend of mine high [TS]

  school had a saab turbo and turbo [TS]

  chargers exciting when your kid because [TS]

  it's like first there's no no car and [TS]

  then all of a sudden engine appears and [TS]

  yep exciting things happen and this is [TS]

  the transition to the excitement of [TS]

  course a front-wheel drive turbo sob was [TS]

  like torque steer beast but yeah [TS]

  exciting and now we gonna think we're [TS]

  good [TS]