The Incomparable

215: Someone Is Threatening My Whales

 

  the incomparable number 215 October 2040 [TS]

  welcome back everybody to be [TS]

  uncomfortable i'm your host Jason smell [TS]

  and tonight we're gonna be talking about [TS]

  it's literally like part two of [TS]

  something we did a few weeks ago which [TS]

  was the best and worst of Star Trek when [TS]

  we the story is an episode 200 realized [TS]

  i was a big star trek fan of my podcast [TS]

  was almost entirely about Star Wars so I [TS]

  thought I would rectify that by doing [TS]

  some episodes about Star Trek we do best [TS]

  and worst to star trek episode was a lot [TS]

  of fun people really reacted well to it [TS]

  and said I hope you're gonna do more of [TS]

  those and the answer is yes we are going [TS]

  to do more of those this in fact is one [TS]

  of those things that is the more of the [TS]

  anyway it's part two of the best for [TS]

  Star Trek i have an excellent panel here [TS]

  very similar to the one I had before [TS]

  with the addition of the person who came [TS]

  up with this idea in the first place and [TS]

  didn't show up the last one so or i [TS]

  guess his internet was really bad for [TS]

  the last one so it wasn't here but he's [TS]

  here tonight [TS]

  its moist uyan I'm is not again Jason [TS]

  the line must be drawn yeah they're [TS]

  sorry no further and I will make you pay [TS]

  for what you've done is you've broken [TS]

  little ships also scott McNulty host of [TS]

  uncomfortable zone random trek is here [TS]

  as you would only expect hi Scott [TS]

  use the Force Luke no mom and i believe [TS]

  i quote Darth Vader when I say no [TS]

  guys let's talk about our favorite [TS]

  boobies you heard that voice you heard [TS]

  was Tony sindelar hi Tony [TS]

  hello nerds yeah fix what is that your [TS]

  new sign on [TS]

  hello nerds that right is that what a [TS]

  lot in real life so let's not let's [TS]

  bring it to the internet for most [TS]

  representative and a proponent of Star [TS]

  Trek Voyager on the planet perhaps is [TS]

  brianna when she's back hello what's [TS]

  crack-a-lacking everything you love [TS]

  I will destroy that ever cook ok i'll [TS]

  argue for until your mind is my mission [TS]

  and then we leave the arena as friends [TS]

  what do I say we solve ok destroy the [TS]

  arena the arena is going oh man i'm the [TS]

  guy in the Big River lizard are na could [TS]

  be don't always and David little David [TS]

  Lawrence here you just heard him hi [TS]

  David [TS]

  oh haha home set [TS]

  okay so I'm gonna do my George Takei [TS]

  that I didn't do when we did our dirty k [TS]

  a bonus track which is san francisco i [TS]

  was born there [TS]

  that's my favorite sealer one target my [TS]

  explosion of joy and fire [TS]

  ok so here's how we're going to do with [TS]

  this is not a draft this is more of a [TS]

  debate club or discussion club i'm going [TS]

  to ask people for their opinions in this [TS]

  case we're gonna get a lot of people who [TS]

  are going to probably agree with [TS]

  specific things and sort of sign on to [TS]

  what that person said if you want to do [TS]

  that that's just fine i anticipate that [TS]

  will happen because in some of these [TS]

  cases there aren't that many choices so [TS]

  it'll be an interesting conversation [TS]

  about various aspects of Star Trek and [TS]

  we're gonna start with series because [TS]

  that's not controversial at all and I [TS]

  what I've asked my my panelists to do is [TS]

  tell me what they think the best Star [TS]

  Trek series is I know I know and we're [TS]

  going to start with Tony Tony what do [TS]

  you think the best Star Trek series hell [TS]

  man [TS]

  don't worry i will know I browser so [TS]

  confident until then God knows what [TS]

  could go wrong [TS]

  um I will go with the thing that I said [TS]

  on an episode of random track so i don't [TS]

  get caught in some kind of time do i [TS]

  will say that the best series is deep [TS]

  space nine it is not my favorite series [TS]

  but I also i will put forward that it is [TS]

  the [TS]

  s-series alright you would you like to [TS]

  talk about that a little bit think this [TS]

  is the draft so I would love for you to [TS]

  do you explain why and then we have [TS]

  wasn't i wasn't sure what was gonna [TS]

  happen we can sign in and attack me or [TS]

  around that will happen to build some [TS]

  kind of makeshift cannon out of bamboo [TS]

  or something how you chose wisely [TS]

  yes thank you thank you that means i [TS]

  chose the same thing Scott exactly yeah [TS]

  i know so i will put for next generation [TS]

  is my favorite star trek but i will put [TS]

  forward the best deep space nine is the [TS]

  best star track in terms of the quality [TS]

  of the primary and secondary characters [TS]

  and perhaps most of all the [TS]

  multi-episode arc throughout the later [TS]

  series that really kind of just keep [TS]

  going and have a level storytelling [TS]

  that's not really present in some of the [TS]

  earlier Star Trek's where they have [TS]

  these storylines that go on and on and [TS]

  on and are interesting and pull you in [TS]

  and you know some people don't like to [TS]

  expand its not as much because it's it's [TS]

  a very kind of dark depiction of the [TS]

  future where a lot of people are worn [TS]

  your heroes are doing things that are [TS]

  not necessarily very nice and there's [TS]

  there's torture and there's intriguing [TS]

  they're spying and there's conspiracy [TS]

  but I find all those fascinating and [TS]

  great and I think that it makes it kind [TS]

  of the deepest and most interesting of [TS]

  the star treks let's go deep in the name [TS]

  so it's totally right there [TS]

  yeah it's also space given and nine well [TS]

  heading to the number so it sounded [TS]

  future we probably the biggest digit yep [TS]

  take that the Space Station k-7 yeah [TS]

  Babylon 5 take that that I've war star [TS]

  trek series can we agree for better [TS]

  yeah uh you know I think he's based on [TS]

  one of the things in it is interesting [TS]

  about these people really remember the [TS]

  latter part of the run where they really [TS]

  didn't break the story arc and go dark [TS]

  the first few years are not so much that [TS]

  I think we're interested about the first [TS]

  few years of several surgeries [TS]

  well that's true that's true but I mean [TS]

  that was that was when that kind of our [TS]

  story arc storytelling came to the fore [TS]

  was in the last like three years of [TS]

  dudes face so I think we got a little [TS]

  bit of a taste of that even I think [TS]

  early on there was a season break where [TS]

  they had a three-parter and it was like [TS]

  that they took it up a notch in terms of [TS]

  you know we had a couple two partners [TS]

  here and there in a next-gen but it it [TS]

  seemed clear early on that they're going [TS]

  to do some longer longer form stuff so I [TS]

  think I think deep space nine has some [TS]

  of the very best starter [TS]

  that's ever been made but i also think [TS]

  it's all over the map [TS]

  i I just in tone in the characters are [TS]

  in what the plot lines are and what just [TS]

  the field the show is um and I think the [TS]

  experimental episodes just really even [TS]

  in the the vein of Star Trek episodes [TS]

  just don't care right really go for it i [TS]

  mean it really has something wildly out [TS]

  there so I I definitely thinks most [TS]

  experimental star trek i actually got [TS]

  really down this is a bad timing example [TS]

  I got really down on deep space 9 right [TS]

  before they really kicked their story [TS]

  arc storytelling into gear and I i [TS]

  dropped out and i stopped watching and I [TS]

  i believe i haven't even seen like the [TS]

  last couple years and decided not to [TS]

  watch it while it was airing LOL i loved [TS]

  next-gen and I love next-gen was like my [TS]

  favorite thing ever [TS]

  as I like a teenager growing up and [TS]

  basically when when Deep Space nine [TS]

  started and when Voyager started I was [TS]

  just angry that they were not more next [TS]

  year and there's even this little with [TS]

  you know in the first episode of deep [TS]

  space nine Picard has like a cameo in [TS]

  like one of the first things we learned [TS]

  about cisco is that he doesn't like the [TS]

  card and I was like I'm so angry that's [TS]

  not believable [TS]

  everyone loves him he's the best I don't [TS]

  want to watch the whole show up but I [TS]

  went back to it later after it all [TS]

  wrapped up and I've watched it all the [TS]

  way through twice and i think it's i [TS]

  think it's really great but you know for [TS]

  a long time it was like after i watch [TS]

  the wire was basically angry every [TS]

  television so happy on the wire after [TS]

  that and that was wow you know like [TS]

  sixteen-year-old tony was basically [TS]

  angry at everything else was not Star [TS]

  Trek The Next Generation and even [TS]

  Voyager deep space nine we're not close [TS]

  enough [TS]

  the episode that killed me for the [TS]

  person i was actually past tense which [TS]

  is from the third season and it is a [TS]

  shameless ripoff of city on the edge of [TS]

  forever [TS]

  I feel they go back in time it is yeah [TS]

  and I hated it I mean I reacted so [TS]

  negatively to about like that's it i [TS]

  forgot i forget it I'm not gonna even [TS]

  bother and I watched Babylon 5 and [TS]

  forgot about star trek to space I i'm [TS]

  slowly watching actually deep space nine [TS]

  now from the point at which i gave up [TS]

  and I you know I I've learned to forgive [TS]

  now but it's a fine detective I've gotta [TS]

  say the thing that I like about past [TS]

  tense is that I felt it was a better [TS]

  ripoff of harlan ellison's original [TS]

  script in the act [TS]

  cool scenario sorry no sorry King III [TS]

  thought I don't know I like past tense [TS]

  that's up there is one of like episodes [TS]

  i really enjoyed it it's got some I mean [TS]

  it's got that kind of dystopian [TS]

  commentary where you know that the near [TS]

  future is not gonna be so great right [TS]

  but yea yet it was you know you're mad [TS]

  you're finding that you're not a [TS]

  depression and it was like so close to [TS]

  just being like hey that was a good [TS]

  episode let's do that again and it just [TS]

  seemed like a robot to me that they [TS]

  didn't forgive me I wasn't what college [TS]

  grad school whatever I was I was I was [TS]

  young and I was an angry young man I [TS]

  mean I'm sorry angry young fan can't [TS]

  relate to that oh yeah something like [TS]

  you were angry that it wasn't Harlan [TS]

  Ellison maybe you know what be partying [TS]

  Allison was angry that everything is not [TS]

  hardly know ya just remember now i think [TS]

  i think the s9 has my promise ts9 is so [TS]

  many of the characters are you like the [TS]

  entire Ferengi subplot is just I cringe [TS]

  every single time because cork is I [TS]

  understand his purpose as a foil they so [TS]

  thoroughly unlikable and like his drama [TS]

  with knock [TS]

  it's just don't you know it's it's again [TS]

  I understand the metaphor you don't have [TS]

  the lovable interplay between quark and [TS]

  odo that really I do like that i did [TS]

  last night i got their stuff yeah we [TS]

  don't let's not you know it's like we're [TS]

  going to mobile skeleton your [TS]

  money-grubbing you hate women right we [TS]

  don't really even up another episode [TS]

  where we explore that what we're going [TS]

  to start over human world but that's [TS]

  it's not just that I think they also on [TS]

  I think major Kira takes I didn't warm [TS]

  up to her until probably season two and [TS]

  I don't know it feels like it took a [TS]

  while for the scripts to really show her [TS]

  human side but I don't know I found her [TS]

  to be really two-dimensional in the [TS]

  first season [TS]

  yeah i think that improve just to show [TS]

  went along but a lot of that our nails [TS]

  are pretty rough yeah she was the shoot [TS]

  but she was drawn more I to Rihanna's [TS]

  point for me more just as shallow as [TS]

  humanly possible showing she was a [TS]

  functional character rather than a i [TS]

  want a human being because I mean that [TS]

  would be offensive and racist but sheshe [TS]

  he was not a person of depth until we [TS]

  got into the later seasons we bothered [TS]

  me and I just like the character mostly [TS]

  because it didn't feel like a character [TS]

  felt like it was a it was a a functional [TS]

  place of ice and I don't know sorry that [TS]

  was because like it was supposed to be [TS]

  in centro right and they couldn't get in [TS]

  so the show more character and like they [TS]

  kind of forgot to write stuff for that [TS]

  new character because they thought they [TS]

  were gonna able just slot an existing [TS]

  character in but but yeah either way to [TS]

  get there there's issues there will add [TS]

  depth later [TS]

  yeah well we'll do that and probably did [TS]

  eventually right [TS]

  yeah they they got an episode where she [TS]

  and chief O'Brien get really really [TS]

  uneasy about how much i love my enjoyed [TS]

  him rubbing on her [TS]

  oh my which is to plug my parents on [TS]

  random track is looking at our mind play [TS]

  that good Santa not a good empanada good [TS]

  intersection of being together for sodas [TS]

  and click on episodes and no that is not [TS]

  a place to buy random comfortable know [TS]

  Brian episodes to we only let you know [TS]

  what I like rose i love all the things [TS]

  that have to happen the chief of the [TS]

  brightest that's right [TS]

  torture for many decades yeah 10 i love [TS]

  two varieties the best and I actually [TS]

  feel bad that he possibly making [TS]

  psychologically destroyed and smiley [TS]

  assplay an alternate version of himself [TS]

  morning in the future [TS]

  yeah he suffers for all of us gets [TS]

  separated for his way he's the Kenny of [TS]

  deep space nine he is the Christ figure [TS]

  obviously I should throw in the my pic [TS]

  was also deep space nine now that is [TS]

  correct as big as much as much of a [TS]

  next-generation devotee as as i am and i [TS]

  watch that show from from a young age [TS]

  when it began until it ended and it was [TS]

  it was a very big thing for me for me [TS]

  deep space nine the experimental stuff [TS]

  that I got into even when it wasn't [TS]

  necessarily TV its best or even Star [TS]

  Trek at its best [TS]

  it didn't it didn't feel as much based [TS]

  on a similar template of something that [TS]

  had come before and that not knowing [TS]

  what was necessarily going to come next [TS]

  where I think it was at the [TS]

  this is a tip of my hand to something [TS]

  that I'm gonna mention later but the [TS]

  episode that is the lane is rob episode [TS]

  just came out of left field for me where [TS]

  there's this whole Valjean in Javert [TS]

  thread going through it and the the [TS]

  thing about the series was that it ran [TS]

  straight at some of those things that if [TS]

  it were played a little bit differently [TS]

  could be considered a bit too [TS]

  on-the-nose are trying a bit too hard [TS]

  and it ended up working and it was it [TS]

  was like watching a disparate grouping [TS]

  of amazing theater actors getting to [TS]

  work together in in ways that we hadn't [TS]

  gotten in a Star Trek series up until [TS]

  that and that was that was fresh enough [TS]

  and different enough for me that I i was [TS]

  i was absolutely devoted to it and it [TS]

  going see realized in later seasons only [TS]

  doubled my interest in paying attention [TS]

  to it i can go along with that just [TS]

  because it it it seemed to have like the [TS]

  most interesting guest casting it was [TS]

  Uncle cast series and that's exactly [TS]

  right it'sit's very much as theater kind [TS]

  of both in terms of casting and in terms [TS]

  of the writing there's there's a little [TS]

  more of this theatrical drama and part [TS]

  of it is just because they were able to [TS]

  build and enrich elaborate so there's a [TS]

  lot of size nine here and i agree it's a [TS]

  good show tonight make a nice guy [TS]

  ok can you refresh our and is not my [TS]

  favorite show get chaos offer some [TS]

  mornings I think you're against it as [TS]

  far yeah the best Star Trek series [TS]

  um I think Cisco did a good job at I [TS]

  feel like you did a really unique spin [TS]

  on Captain [TS]

  I think we'll probably touch on him for [TS]

  best captains if we get to that [TS]

  that said I think as far as being an [TS]

  icon i think on this list of all the [TS]

  captain's I think he and Archer kind of [TS]

  tied for the least interesting captain [TS]

  is a character um I know every time it [TS]

  was like who the emissary got into this [TS]

  mysticism part of it it just it went to [TS]

  a place I couldn't go to it's like a [TS]

  science-fiction fan I I think [TS]

  aesthetically I know when I watch star [TS]

  trek [TS]

  I'm looking for the artists that kind of [TS]

  create this world to create a really [TS]

  cool aesthetic my CT ng SE gorgeous work [TS]

  when I si voy dressy gorgeous work [TS]

  because the same workers the energy yeah [TS]

  what exactly and I find the world of [TS]

  deep space nine meaning you know that [TS]

  the architecture of this space station [TS]

  and interiors and even the Defiant I [TS]

  think it's the least appealing visual [TS]

  star trek world and i also think that [TS]

  with the ships and characters that they [TS]

  brought into the series of the life of [TS]

  it i think it's some of the week work in [TS]

  an artistic sense and i think it was [TS]

  yeah [TS]

  god I was gonna say i would suggest that [TS]

  some of that is like intended to be that [TS]

  way right because the station is [TS]

  supposed to be this Cardassian thing and [TS]

  it's very drab and yeah I guess it's [TS]

  harder to defend the Defiant except that [TS]

  perhaps it's a it's a military vessel [TS]

  and therefore it's right you know [TS]

  oh yeah so I think there's that um I [TS]

  think that there are you something I [TS]

  look for strong female characters and I [TS]

  think that definitely exists on the show [TS]

  I think major career on hold her own [TS]

  with anyone i think the treatment of [TS]

  dats in later seasons was extremely [TS]

  problematic [TS]

  yeah you know I felt like I feel like [TS]

  there are other star tracks that [TS]

  represent women better than deep space [TS]

  nine yet at times [TS]

  all right before we continue let's take [TS]

  a break and do a sponsor break our [TS]

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  sponsoring the incomparable David lure [TS]

  you have a choice for best series i do [TS]

  indeed and it is not deep space 9 [TS]

  well that'll make this more interesting [TS]

  than well it's unfortunate as much as I [TS]

  love it and I do love it but if you [TS]

  think about it next generation took [TS]

  about three seasons to get good deep [TS]

  space nine took about three seasons [TS]

  Voyager enterprise even took three [TS]

  seasons [TS]

  there's only one show that nailed it [TS]

  right off the bat and then took three [TS]

  seasons to get bad and we exactly five [TS]

  way [TS]

  yeah but yes so that that's the first [TS]

  reason i picked the original series [TS]

  the second reason is i can watch it over [TS]

  and over [TS]

  over and over again and I can watch it [TS]

  in any order I want pretty much I don't [TS]

  have to have all the backstory and [TS]

  thirdly if it weren't for that we [TS]

  wouldn't have four other series to talk [TS]

  about you know that fandom that whatever [TS]

  the lightning in a bottle they caught [TS]

  even just the first two seasons whatever [TS]

  that was was so powerful that it kept it [TS]

  alive for 10 years without any new [TS]

  content unless you can't the animated [TS]

  series I like the animated series you [TS]

  like it so much maybe you should take it [TS]

  hey not not the great thing that we [TS]

  wouldn't have huh [TS]

  hey it but you know we we wouldn't still [TS]

  be talking about it [TS]

  45 years later we wouldn't have hundreds [TS]

  of novels and comic books and 1212 [TS]

  movies 12 movies and a park official [TS]

  animated series [TS]

  there's something about that just that [TS]

  basic concept that works and everything [TS]

  is judged against it you know deep space [TS]

  nine is to boldly stay where no one has [TS]

  stayed before you know voyager is [TS]

  basically let's do the original again [TS]

  just in a new part of space that we [TS]

  haven't explored the next generation is [TS]

  let's do the same thing you know it [TS]

  enterprises we've never been out here [TS]

  before let's do the same thing so you [TS]

  know without that that at the heart we [TS]

  would have anything else [TS]

  hello i would argue in fact that that if [TS]

  you look at the casting of all success [TS]

  of Star Trek series and they all have [TS]

  their strengths [TS]

  I feel like they're all really trying to [TS]

  recapture that Kirk Spock McCoy magic [TS]

  and i would argue that none of them do [TS]

  they all have their strengths yes but I [TS]

  think none of them managed to nail [TS]

  because again i think it's one in a [TS]

  million and that's why star trek [TS]

  survived is because they got that [TS]

  one-in-a-million with those characters [TS]

  and and I'm I'm with you there to this [TS]

  would be my choice as well partially [TS]

  because it's sentimental and I grew up [TS]

  with it partially it's because yes all [TS]

  of them are watchable i love the I love [TS]

  the aesthetic i love the the fan shows [TS]

  that the star trek continues and all [TS]

  that they making out [TS]

  with that with that set in southern [TS]

  Georgia that they built in a warehouse [TS]

  that looks exactly like the original how [TS]

  many how many fan-made next generations [TS]

  and voyagers and deep space nine is out [TS]

  there you know [TS]

  yeah there aren't you know it's the [TS]

  route it's the root myth of Star Trek is [TS]

  this is the stuff i will say i just [TS]

  watched where no man has gone before [TS]

  which is the second pilot and I of the [TS]

  original series and I was amazed at how [TS]

  much they got in like how much of the [TS]

  star trek mythos is there in the second [TS]

  pilot [TS]

  yeah it's cause not everybody right it [TS]

  is fully formed they do have much nicer [TS]

  comfy looking uniform yes I get the [TS]

  impression that they tried to wash them [TS]

  and they fell apart like no uniforms now [TS]

  yeah the James our rightful lure James [TS]

  Parker is a well that just proves that [TS]

  Gary Mitchell wasn't perfect yeah and [TS]

  then the crazy the crazy like metal [TS]

  telescoping things off the captain's [TS]

  chair and spotty showers a lot and I [TS]

  know I I women i'm with Amanda Rose is [TS]

  not to say that they are not horror that [TS]

  you know that there are so many horrible [TS]

  episodes of the original series and yet [TS]

  I find them even generally watchable [TS]

  yeah and after the empath except i can't [TS]

  watch [TS]

  I cannot Spock's brain till the cows [TS]

  come home you know watch the pit [TS]

  you can watch Spock's brain man yeah [TS]

  bring and bring one is bracing for [TS]

  Campion fight and stopwatch Neelix's [TS]

  lungs i guess yeah box brain that you [TS]

  can watch them at the same time though [TS]

  because they're different parts of the [TS]

  body any other thoughts about about the [TS]

  original series before I want a water or [TS]

  I will say my thoughts or worse [TS]

  all right we'll come back that's going [TS]

  to get more teasing the future we will [TS]

  not and we will not miss the arena is [TS]

  going to be destroyed [TS]

  I age transwarp Drive alright take us to [TS]

  the Future Rihanna alright go ahead and [TS]

  pick Voyager alright i love love [TS]

  literature i love voyager i think people [TS]

  that hate Voyager or irrational and I [TS]

  have just ok so i think there are [TS]

  several measures of what makes against [TS]

  our track I think there's production [TS]

  values i think their story I think [TS]

  there's character development [TS]

  biosynthetic there's like like [TS]

  mathematical measures of it like what is [TS]

  the average quality of an episode and I [TS]

  feel like if you look at TNG there's a [TS]

  wild wild wild like fluctuation between [TS]

  like first season and the best of both [TS]

  worlds [TS]

  it's certainly true TOS is truth vs 9 um [TS]

  and I feel like by the time [TS]

  Voyager came along I felt like they [TS]

  understood their production pipeline [TS]

  better to a point that there is a [TS]

  certain base level of quality to the [TS]

  episodes in the the makeup and special [TS]

  effects and the acting and frankly the [TS]

  script quality that I think it's on [TS]

  average they're very very few episodes [TS]

  blender they're flat-out unwatchable in [TS]

  my opinion [TS]

  um I like the characters more than any [TS]

  other star track i realized that [TS]

  subjective but i do think it has a much [TS]

  more diverse cast than many other star [TS]

  tracks [TS]

  um yeah which i enjoy i also think that [TS]

  the epic battles that they went up [TS]

  against like to the board plot lines [TS]

  were excellent and I just love this [TS]

  entire series where they have an [TS]

  overarching storyline and as they move [TS]

  towards this storyline like you get more [TS]

  technology and you get deeper into these [TS]

  characters and you know Harry grows into [TS]

  more than insecure incident yet Tom [TS]

  Paris grows into a father in a you know [TS]

  a loving husband and stuff like this [TS]

  just reckless criminal spawn for all the [TS]

  people right Voyager because they [TS]

  haven't seen right right I they don't [TS]

  deserve to be away of course they don't [TS]

  get pretty much say any of the people [TS]

  who hate it because they have seen it as [TS]

  Worf would say there is no honor in [TS]

  spoiler warnings you could say anything [TS]

  about the six and seven seasons of [TS]

  Voyager there are people who believe [TS]

  that oh yeah that was applied [TS]

  Wow go watch that but that's I mean it [TS]

  doesn't matter how bad start your guts [TS]

  it's always a base level of enjoyment so [TS]

  i have to tell you guys when you say oh [TS]

  I bailed out of that at that point [TS]

  that's hard for me to understand because [TS]

  even the worst star trek like [TS]

  feel like I've watched all the animated [TS]

  series because it's the cannon and I [TS]

  want to understand it so it may not be [TS]

  the cabin but you know that but there [TS]

  are somebody else stands up something I [TS]

  wanted to throw in an invoice defense [TS]

  one of the problems that it ran into was [TS]

  in some markets the station that was [TS]

  carrying paramount was going erratic and [TS]

  part of the reason that I dropped out of [TS]

  it wasn't that I hated the show [TS]

  necessarily though like a lot of Trek [TS]

  fans at the outside of news stories [TS]

  recorded 10 Gonzalo and grew but I [TS]

  actually watched the pilot was like this [TS]

  is actually pretty good [TS]

  what are the one of these bad reviews [TS]

  about what's the deal with this but then [TS]

  they started bouncing around and I I had [TS]

  trouble catching it wasn't as regular it [TS]

  was it was not necessarily always the [TS]

  same night the same time the way the TNG [TS]

  in deep space nine work for me and of [TS]

  course that got radically worse when [TS]

  enterprise came around but i think that [TS]

  was something that had unfairly going [TS]

  for it just because it was it was not [TS]

  always consistently airing in every [TS]

  single market around the country even [TS]

  even the pilot it deep the pilot did not [TS]

  err where I lived I had to drive to a [TS]

  friend's house in another state to watch [TS]

  the pilot huh [TS]

  and that was the first episode try to [TS]

  disappointment haha it's got a metaphor [TS]

  because he's traveling far away that he [TS]

  couldn't get back an hour [TS]

  that's right that took me seven years so [TS]

  I'm not angry [TS]

  that's a Voyager I'm just disappointed [TS]

  in it because i think that it could have [TS]

  been great and sure people can believe [TS]

  that it is great because of course you [TS]

  know This Is opinion but it wasn't and [TS]

  that's unfortunate but what specifically [TS]

  I wait I don't really like to understand [TS]

  what you find bad about other than the [TS]

  plots the characters of the concept is [TS]

  pretty good [TS]

  uh-huh what well yeah I i will suit so I [TS]

  what I think and I was listening to your [TS]

  random practice around and you were [TS]

  talking about how you kind of I came to [TS]

  you came to Voyager without like a super [TS]

  encyclopedic knowledge of previous Star [TS]

  Trek's right is that accurate scrap [TS]

  ok so i think your context of seeing [TS]

  Voyager has a clean slate was [TS]

  is very different from the context of of [TS]

  many people who had been watching since [TS]

  the first year of next-generation for me [TS]

  as somebody who's been watching star [TS]

  track my all my life but especially [TS]

  watching this this particularly this [TS]

  production team produced this series of [TS]

  shows i felt like the Voyager especially [TS]

  a lot of the Brandenburg APIs odor Leon [TS]

  I felt like they were sucking wind that [TS]

  they literally like they had what they [TS]

  had been working on the show on star [TS]

  trek in various forms for more than a [TS]

  decade and they had really run out of [TS]

  ideas were scraping the bottom of the [TS]

  barrel and we're recycling lots of old [TS]

  plots from old star trek series so which [TS]

  would've been recycled a couple times [TS]

  before that already right soso and and [TS]

  this is a theory I had it when I was [TS]

  listening to random Trek episode is I [TS]

  think maybe it was it was all new to you [TS]

  and you didn't have that jaded feeling [TS]

  that I had which is like oh good [TS]

  Brandenburg is writing another one of [TS]

  these episodes that he always writes Ron [TS]

  Moore is writing another one of those [TS]

  episodes that he always right and maybe [TS]

  that's I mean maybe that's why the past [TS]

  tense episode of deep space nine doesn't [TS]

  bother because you know I've seen [TS]

  sitting on the edge of forever but I [TS]

  probably haven't seen out five times yes [TS]

  is the suspect who [TS]

  well the the singular nature of people [TS]

  writing things is much more common in [TS]

  british TV in the the star trek shows [TS]

  were all writers room shows so just [TS]

  because Ron Moore was credited as the [TS]

  writers I mean it was a Klingon episode [TS]

  yet he probably wrote every day yeah but [TS]

  and Brandon braga always had a weird [TS]

  thing involving time and you know but [TS]

  the point is the this is largely the [TS]

  same group of writers for like a decade [TS]

  and any TV show that last decade unless [TS]

  they totally turn over their writing [TS]

  staff it's gonna you know it's sort of [TS]

  declines over time because they sort of [TS]

  done it all and they're trying to find [TS]

  ways to stay novel and that was my [TS]

  reaction to Voyager when it was on was [TS]

  was not a problem with the characters [TS]

  although yeah eric is kind of boring and [TS]

  they do dumb things with Chakotay but it [TS]

  was sort of like I felt like I i was [TS]

  expecting this show to be different [TS]

  because of the premise because they were [TS]

  getting them out of the well-trod area [TS]

  of deep space nine in next-generation [TS]

  where we had seen everything and nothing [TS]

  was on the frontier anymore and I felt [TS]

  like what I got was a lot of rehashed [TS]

  next-generation episodes which is a [TS]

  waste of the premise so that was where I [TS]

  came from when I was watching voyager I [TS]

  didn't watch the last whatever two or [TS]

  three years so you know again this is [TS]

  something that is worth of netflix [TS]

  revisit that was writing for that's a [TS]

  really interesting opinion I thought of [TS]

  it that way [TS]

  yeah but when i when i got my hands on [TS]

  the dvds that my brother loan to me I [TS]

  dug into a lot of things that people who [TS]

  picked out is really great seven of nine [TS]

  episodes because the way that they [TS]

  marketed her introduction of the series [TS]

  turned me off in in respect that it just [TS]

  it felt like they were going hey check [TS]

  it out it's this girl and bodies organ [TS]

  isn't she awesome isn't she gorgeous and [TS]

  when I actually got to watch the [TS]

  episodes she it's it's the extension of [TS]

  the hue Eyeborg a thing from the annex [TS]

  generation but with a remarkable amount [TS]

  of depth that I couldn't possibly [TS]

  imagine because of course I hadn't seen [TS]

  the damn episodes and I think that [TS]

  really is you know I people people with [TS]

  very strong opinions about it have very [TS]

  strong opinions about it i would say the [TS]

  majority of people that really slam on [TS]

  Voyager it has to be that most of these [TS]

  people have not actually watched more [TS]

  than maybe half a season with a purpose [TS]

  well i would say you can watch a couple [TS]

  seasons and be disappointed but it did [TS]

  last 7 also i was going to mention that [TS]

  I thought the monkey thing was a really [TS]

  nice wrinkle and somebody in the [TS]

  chatroom just mentioned it and that's [TS]

  one of those words are disappointed me [TS]

  in that they're there a while in the in [TS]

  the helixes long episode you mentioned [TS]

  this on random track it's like four [TS]

  episodes in and they're like a happy [TS]

  crew and it's like realities that like [TS]

  you threw away a really interesting [TS]

  character dynamic because you're afraid [TS]

  you're going to have conflict it's it's [TS]

  I just end and again that doesn't mean [TS]

  the show wasn't good it means that I was [TS]

  set up for disappointment because i had [TS]

  expectations that were not that were not [TS]

  met [TS]

  no I think that's really fair i think [TS]

  that's really fair I did say is just an [TS]

  argument for it i think so it really [TS]

  destroyed me about enterprise is I felt [TS]

  like artistically and aesthetically I [TS]

  think that show failed i think like the [TS]

  look of the uniforms as bad i don't [TS]

  think the amex design is particularly [TS]

  good you just hate audiences with you [TS]

  and just a nice but I feel like boys or [TS]

  even like if you disagree with the plots [TS]

  and all that date it is a really superb [TS]

  startrack aesthetically I think the [TS]

  voyager is the most beautiful star trek [TS]

  ship except for maybe the Prometheus and [TS]

  a few other designs i think if you just [TS]

  look at the special effects in series i [TS]

  think they're they're uniformly better [TS]

  than anything except for the movies and [TS]

  I just think week to week it had a [TS]

  strong production night because like you [TS]

  said Jason I'm looking at in Reverse so [TS]

  I look at tos and it's really hard to [TS]

  look past the editing of the Goron see [TS]

  which is a jump you know however some of [TS]

  the some of the makeup which is frankly [TS]

  awful and to me it's kind of hard to get [TS]

  past that limited production value as [TS]

  you go backwards like the cg in the [TS]

  first few seasons of TNG it's it's not [TS]

  even half with no cgt it's just mine but [TS]

  yeah well like the encounter at Farpoint [TS]

  like you know that has a CG net out [TS]

  there it's some songs today [TS]

  oh no that's terrible right thats that's [TS]

  almost it was almost entirely model [TS]

  working yeah that was the brother was [TS]

  not good that just cg fishing net thing [TS]

  from space [TS]

  Scott do you have are you signing onto [TS]

  one of these series is as the best do [TS]

  you have another choice [TS]

  well i mean i think that deep space nine [TS]

  is the best series but I've talked about [TS]

  this before on Randy very soon [TS]

  do you hear her there's I think the best [TS]

  series and the one that you hold dearest [TS]

  to you which might not be the best one [TS]

  and for me that is the next generation [TS]

  because that's when i first started [TS]

  watching Star Trek and I got turned on [TS]

  to it and so when I think Star Trek I [TS]

  think jean luc picard I think Riker and [TS]

  you know Deanna Troi and crush these are [TS]

  the characters you mean star trek to me [TS]

  so i will since Tony picked ds9 and even [TS]

  though this is not a draft i will i will [TS]

  wave the flag of the next generation for [TS]

  bringing back all of the hope and the [TS]

  promise that was in Star Trek and if you [TS]

  get past the first season it's good and [TS]

  pioneering a lot of things that became [TS]

  staples of ds9 and four [TS]

  major that followed at the cliffhanger [TS]

  episodes the UH the the not necessarily [TS]

  entirely self-contained stuff not going [TS]

  all the way to the serialization that [TS]

  came late in deep space nine and we got [TS]

  bits of invoice juror and not very [TS]

  well-executed bits of an enterprise [TS]

  there there were there were things that [TS]

  next generation inducted into the star [TS]

  trek fabric that granted Roddenberry was [TS]

  around for a good enough chunk of next [TS]

  generation but he was involved enough to [TS]

  a point that the writers room actually [TS]

  got a chance to introduce some some [TS]

  dangerous concepts and of course in the [TS]

  case of best of both worlds something [TS]

  that they thought they were all getting [TS]

  fired and well we're probably not gonna [TS]

  have to figure out a way to get out of [TS]

  this or where to go after this so [TS]

  screwed good luck to the next guy and as [TS]

  a result of that kind of throwing [TS]

  caution to the wind ended up doing this [TS]

  stuff that made people love the show [TS]

  we're staying safe and just trying to do [TS]

  nothing but red TOS as they tried [TS]

  repeatedly and poorly in the first [TS]

  couple seasons just wasn't working some [TS]

  of the failures that they saw a [TS]

  next-generation for the reason that the [TS]

  series that came after it existed so I i [TS]

  wouldn't be able to pick deep space nine [TS]

  different work for next-generation I [TS]

  mean it came along and and really [TS]

  cemented it as an industry to say it's [TS]

  not just a bunch of people writing books [TS]

  and comic books and trying to keep it [TS]

  alive it's like no there's an audience [TS]

  for this and they want more and they [TS]

  want even more [TS]

  yeah just playing devil's advocate I i [TS]

  would actually bring TNG is probably the [TS]

  second worst to the hilltop dr those is [TS]

  Briana's list is the opposite of mine [TS]

  essentially brianna is mirror universe [TS]

  matter-antimatter cases i'm going to [TS]

  grow a beard wait which one of you is [TS]

  the good one is definitely jason says [TS]

  that was wearing a sash then we'll know [TS]

  did you know who's got an agony booth I [TS]

  feel like because TNG is a product of [TS]

  the eighties just like you can look at [TS]

  voyager is very much product of the the [TS]

  nineties and i feel i feel like i let [TS]

  you know when you tune into like an [TS]

  eighties action with a your kind of sick [TS]

  surprised by how trusting and gleeful [TS]

  and like believing of authority like the [TS]

  people it is that there's a cheery trust [TS]

  that's there that's a little modern and [TS]

  do you know what I mean like there's a [TS]

  that kind of b-movie quality to it and I [TS]

  feel like that really exists throughout [TS]

  TNG and I feel like if you're not [TS]

  watching it having actually watched it [TS]

  at the time I think you look back at it [TS]

  and it's in this weird zone between like [TS]

  TLS is so campy that you kind of like [TS]

  just laugh at it because it's a it's an [TS]

  example like sixties camp and it's [TS]

  almost entertaining in the sexist [TS]

  sometimes and then you have like you go [TS]

  all the way forward and enterprises more [TS]

  serious like it's full on dry and i feel [TS]

  like because it was made in the eighties [TS]

  in this in-between era of that doesn't [TS]

  make sense to you like it's it's kind of [TS]

  a little cheesy at times it's it does [TS]

  have some really weird tone shifts where [TS]

  it goes super goofy one episode and then [TS]

  goes you know if we don't get this [TS]

  treaty through the universe's do and [TS]

  there's going to be war which we're not [TS]

  going to do in this series we'll leave [TS]

  that for deep space nine a series that [TS]

  that openly courts conflict and actual [TS]

  emotions and breakdowns of diplomatic [TS]

  stuff we live in a utopian bubble where [TS]

  there's nothing wrong and we don't even [TS]

  have money will be yeah everything's [TS]

  great [TS]

  there's probably nothing on the fringe [TS]

  that's different than this i mean it's [TS]

  hard to pick apart the fact that the the [TS]

  original series was first announced in [TS]

  the sixties and next-generation was in [TS]

  the eighties and early nineties and and [TS]

  that by the time these other series i [TS]

  mean the series were built on the backs [TS]

  of those shows but at the same time they [TS]

  were able to evolve and go beyond the [TS]

  basic scope of Gene Roddenberry and that [TS]

  makes them difficult to calibrate [TS]

  because you know I i again i would i [TS]

  would say that with next-generation [TS]

  hadn't succeeded next generation is the [TS]

  show that has in some ways the [TS]

  second-biggest hold on popular culture [TS]

  in that people really like that was a [TS]

  breakout hit across a broad spectrum of [TS]

  people but it also was the you know [TS]

  eighties dentist office bridge and all [TS]

  those things and and was Gene [TS]

  Roddenberry's hand was on it [TS]

  and you can feel that the the everything [TS]

  is perfect and we wear jumpsuits when [TS]

  they started to pry his fingers up after [TS]

  eat sort of pulled back that's when he [TS]

  got good that's when it got good and i'm [TS]

  a star trek just like any science [TS]

  fiction is best when it's reflecting the [TS]

  culture that it's in so I mean this is [TS]

  the original series deals with many [TS]

  things that people were thinking about [TS]

  the sixties and it was a very [TS]

  progressive show for the sixties right [TS]

  and and the next generations of its time [TS]

  they're all of its time so it's hard to [TS]

  tanaka show because it was made 45 years [TS]

  ago [TS]

  yeah well and and I mean I've been [TS]

  looking at this for a while now just no [TS]

  TV in general has I mean there's a real [TS]

  growth of sophistication and [TS]

  storytelling and style yeah yeah you [TS]

  know so i can i can sort of step back [TS]

  and go yeah it's it's they're wearing [TS]

  pajamas its cardboard sets but I just [TS]

  look past that like when I see the the [TS]

  new remastered episodes of the original [TS]

  series with the fancy effects and the [TS]

  planets that look realistic and the the [TS]

  swooping camera shots and it doesn't [TS]

  look great because it doesn't match the [TS]

  rest of the the aesthetic it's it's good [TS]

  it's well done they did a great job but [TS]

  it's not right it doesn't look right [TS]

  I don't I don't mind you know I don't [TS]

  mind the the cheesiness of it because [TS]

  it's just it'sit's the story I you know [TS]

  but there's a fit the story like you can [TS]

  look at the best of TLS like which would [TS]

  be wrath of khan which I know is a movie [TS]

  but that was their best story and you [TS]

  can look at the best of TNG which is [TS]

  best about worlds are the best of inner [TS]

  Voyager and there's a certain move [TS]

  timelessness to the conflict and acting [TS]

  and you completely buy into that [TS]

  universe [TS]

  whatever gets my message braces as i [TS]

  watch TNG I feel like they're acting the [TS]

  same way when I watch an eighties cop [TS]

  show it feels like acting and I I think [TS]

  it's best I don't feel that way but I [TS]

  feel that way a lot watch it [TS]

  so although i would say I I wouldn't [TS]

  pick either one of those as the best [TS]

  episodes of either one [TS]

  it's okay we're gonna move on my set [TS]

  Moyes is you already stipulated ds9 if [TS]

  if I could the [TS]

  the one thing that I had prepared that I [TS]

  wanted to say about the space tonight [TS]

  its brief ok it's actually a response to [TS]

  to something that got thrown slung at me [TS]

  i'll say in the chat room just now I [TS]

  have been constantly accused of not [TS]

  being a real star trek fan because i [TS]

  love deep space nine and this is this is [TS]

  something that I i take head-on as very [TS]

  much the reason that I like the space [TS]

  nine so much is that the things that [TS]

  that a lot of people stand by as well [TS]

  Roddenberry would not have liked that [TS]

  show period end of story because the [TS]

  future is a utopia and isn't going to be [TS]

  great in the future when there is no [TS]

  conflict and no conflict does not an [TS]

  interesting story make the wrath of khan [TS]

  is not a goes back 20 story if you if [TS]

  you cite the the kind of classic things [TS]

  that are the best examples of Star Trek [TS]

  and things from tos and everything [TS]

  really the best things from TOS that [TS]

  people cite all the time are the times [TS]

  when it broke pattern and actually made [TS]

  a substantive change for the ongoing the [TS]

  ongoing myth [TS]

  sometimes I think people get into this [TS]

  run Barry culture Roddenberry and what [TS]

  they're really exciting is the first [TS]

  season the next generation which is not [TS]

  does not match up with the original [TS]

  series in most cases either but that's [TS]

  also i mean yeah that nobody gets to [TS]

  tell anybody how to be a fan or what [TS]

  their fandom is that just does not [TS]

  allowed unless you accidentally pick [TS]

  like sequence is your favorite I'm yeah [TS]

  that's when you're out that you're [TS]

  probably don't forget that don't and [TS]

  some Darwinian my favorite character [TS]

  yeah i like that i like the dolphin [TS]

  character in sadar what you need and so [TS]

  Darwin is that you have a name dammit [TS]

  tony i do not know his name [TS]

  I'm a real structure okay and he just [TS]

  wants to understand what it is to be [TS]

  human but I hate dolphins it's one of [TS]

  those is definitely yeah racist honest [TS]

  but when it really comes down to it the [TS]

  the reason that i love deep space nine [TS]

  so much is that you know the the things [TS]

  that i mentioned a minute ago about it [TS]

  not being not being afraid to keep you [TS]

  off guard and have characters that were [TS]

  not perfect [TS]

  uh [TS]

  echoes of characters that came before [TS]

  next generation or TOS even in cases [TS]

  where unfortunately that led to them [TS]

  being cardboard for a while I Kira that [TS]

  you didn't necessarily know what to [TS]

  expect and different turns that [TS]

  different characters might take whether [TS]

  it was guest stars or core series [TS]

  characters when it came to major [TS]

  conflicts that erupted or divided [TS]

  loyalties or just the the fact for me [TS]

  the Deep Space nine was the first series [TS]

  to really have an ongoing character like [TS]

  Derek in it for me is what cemented it [TS]

  as you know what this this is the one [TS]

  that we'll see what happens after and [TS]

  there are lots of things I like about [TS]

  what came before but that was interested [TS]

  in telling compelling stories that [TS]

  decided that decided that it was okay to [TS]

  turn conflict on its head and everything [TS]

  didn't have to be black and white Cold [TS]

  War good evil [TS]

  alright I am going to stipulate the [TS]

  original series as David did and say [TS]

  that my second would like at like Scott [TS]

  would have been the next generation so [TS]

  totally mirror of Brianna up so let's [TS]

  let's very quickly because we're gonna [TS]

  run out of things to argue about if we [TS]

  don't argue faster Tom Snyder with [TS]

  series so let's talk about the let's [TS]

  talk about the the work the worst series [TS]

  we'll just throw bomb and walk away [TS]

  quite frankly tell us why and then we'll [TS]

  just move on to the next one but i'm [TS]

  gonna let Brianna go first here so throw [TS]

  it throw it go get quick stab me in the [TS]

  heart to do is stand [TS]

  I don't understand how reasonable adult [TS]

  can fill that he left the best series it [TS]

  is double let's flashback to when I [TS]

  picked her cuz my favorite character and [TS]

  I heard you gasped audibly his second [TS]

  favorite character is misogyny okay look [TS]

  just mathematically fact let me see my [TS]

  husband's 14 years older than I am I [TS]

  watched fds pls a lot [TS]

  ok come home is watching I thought you [TS]

  were gonna just started and stopped at [TS]

  14 years old right haha [TS]

  people's interpretation is that actually [TS]

  oh no i've seen these upsets a lot more [TS]

  kids my will frequently man i'm amazed [TS]

  by how bad the average episode of TLS is [TS]

  and there's a really good episode like [TS]

  sitting on the edge of forever or [TS]

  balance of power like when it's good [TS]

  it's really good but you don't like the [TS]

  editing is uneven special effects are [TS]

  bad [TS]

  the editing i can't say enough bad [TS]

  things about the anything who edited the [TS]

  Gorn fight [TS]

  who in their right mind f is it that [TS]

  when what world was exciting back i was [TS]

  paid entirely in gin alley undergoing [TS]

  find one of the one of the most iconic [TS]

  fights not [TS]

  yeah absolutely is it so far imagine how [TS]

  bad everything else was that this was [TS]

  good i think the Gorn fight actually was [TS]

  a problem or with the coverage that they [TS]

  shot than the editing because it's like [TS]

  they got a guy who can't move in a big [TS]

  costume and then i won't shatter running [TS]

  around and got that gives rocks and [TS]

  they're like I don't even know what to [TS]

  do with this right i'm not sure the [TS]

  editor is fault there anyway and get it [TS]

  is iconic and i love it so there haha [TS]

  you know [TS]

  nostalgia is a hell of a drug yep it is [TS]

  and i was going to say Brianna you with [TS]

  the problem is you need to not watch [TS]

  this under duress that that will cover [TS]

  your entire experience shackles [TS]

  generally have an adverse effect on your [TS]

  opinion of something there [TS]

  they're all good in their own way i like [TS]

  all star trac period but I just I think [TS]

  like as far as qualities the works there [TS]

  are also barely any women in TLS and [TS]

  this is why i think the movements are so [TS]

  much better because they you know they [TS]

  bring these complex to the forefront [TS]

  um I actually think Star Trek on [TS]

  whatever they call the new when they're [TS]

  making that sound stage you're talking [TS]

  about by introducing the counselor [TS]

  character that raises my interest in the [TS]

  series very sharply um but I just think [TS]

  it's it's so campy it's so bad it's it's [TS]

  I just I don't know how you can claim [TS]

  this the best on track [TS]

  all right your-your-your complaints are [TS]

  noted okay Scotty duly noted Scott [TS]

  layaway [TS]

  what kind of universal million where [TS]

  someone is pics favorite series a [TS]

  Voyager least favorite of the original [TS]

  where craziness this is bringing his [TS]

  universe were all just living in it i [TS]

  figured i was certain that we could all [TS]

  agree on at least this that the without [TS]

  a doubt the undisputed worst series [TS]

  instructor history is enterprise you you [TS]

  start with the theme song and that's [TS]

  really my argument ends and started haha [TS]

  that's about where i stopped watching [TS]

  tips that works for me and Scott you [TS]

  made the point on several episodes of [TS]

  random correct you've got you've got [TS]

  scott bakula who is a fairly win a [TS]

  likable actor and you give him you make [TS]

  him grumpy and unapproachable great idea [TS]

  I think I say that all the time it's [TS]

  like you take one of the most likable [TS]

  you know I mean Sam want to believe it [TS]

  will be a beautiful character [TS]

  let's mammogram because yeah and he [TS]

  never smiles the only time he ever has [TS]

  fun is that mirror universe episode and [TS]

  it's a blast [TS]

  it's no good ok I think seasons three [TS]

  and four of enterprise are underrated I [TS]

  I'd radically underrated yes the lab [TS]

  will that last season with Manny Coto [TS]

  running it and and making it [TS]

  let's pick up all the little threads [TS]

  from the original series and make it [TS]

  sort of the bridge to the original [TS]

  series rather than making it i would [TS]

  actually go and say this is one of those [TS]

  examples to of the exhausted writing [TS]

  staff because by those last two seasons [TS]

  of of enterprise the exhausted writing [TS]

  staff was gone and it was mostly newer [TS]

  writers and you could see that they were [TS]

  trying new things that bring brandon [TS]

  Braga and Rick Berman were much less [TS]

  involved or not involved and then they [TS]

  came back for the finale which was [TS]

  terrible the the thing the thing for me [TS]

  with with enterprise is once Manny Coto [TS]

  got the rains that show got [TS]

  exponentially more consistent and yeah [TS]

  it is why is why i will say loud and [TS]

  proud code or GTFO it's it's too bad [TS]

  that in fact ironically the show that i [TS]

  didn't know why it existed right when i [TS]

  got to the point where they cancelled it [TS]

  was when I thought oh I actually like [TS]

  watching this again and then it was gone [TS]

  it was like Enterprise just got there [TS]

  and they killed it and I wanted to learn [TS]

  more about that temporal Cold War that's [TS]

  oh my god so bad and and yet you know [TS]

  the two partner in the mirror universe [TS]

  was awesome [TS]

  yeah it certainly had a high point so [TS]

  I'm not gonna say was all bad and the [TS]

  final season was great not just because [TS]

  it was last season but going in that's [TS]

  what we thought but it turned out it was [TS]

  actually not bad [TS]

  the best episode was the last because it [TS]

  can start from 101 wait such a bad last [TS]

  episodes and such a bad episode [TS]

  yeah that's what it's got my I think you [TS]

  think you made a popular choice but [TS]

  let's move on moist you have a you have [TS]

  a choice for worst Star Trek series you [TS]

  can sign onto one of these if we have to [TS]

  pick em you do it's it is our way if i [TS]

  have to pick its I you know airing in [TS]

  different markets and everything be [TS]

  damned if i had to put Voyager [TS]

  enterprise on an even keel [TS]

  I unfortunately have to sign on with [TS]

  enterprise to because when i actually [TS]

  went back and watched the first couple [TS]

  seasons of Voyager it's actually way [TS]

  better than people had had said that it [TS]

  was first couple seasons of enterprise [TS]

  get endlessly mired in you know what we [TS]

  need [TS]

  guess what guys everything was building [TS]

  a nice head of steam we had some great [TS]

  character work going on we need to do [TS]

  some of this boring temporal Cold War [TS]

  crap again [TS]

  yeah for no good reason and and it [TS]

  showed how totally embattled that show [TS]

  was where you know you look at the [TS]

  special features on the blu-rays they've [TS]

  been putting out where they've been very [TS]

  candid about what a frog production it [TS]

  was where they had like 25 year-old [TS]

  executives in the network going [TS]

  hey so is there like any way that we [TS]

  could have their be like a band playing [TS]

  on the ship where every week we have [TS]

  like muse come in and they're like [TS]

  future muse and play a song or something [TS]

  that that that that Vulcan check is [TS]

  pretty hot how about some like [TS]

  decontamination shell that they could [TS]

  get on naked and rub it on each other [TS]

  that'd be cool man [TS]

  I mean it could be like the Sailor Moon [TS]

  transformation sequence but way [TS]

  exploitive [TS]

  ok so that's another vote for enterprise [TS]

  another brick in the wall Tony what's [TS]

  your what's your choice [TS]

  I yeah i'll just throw another brick in [TS]

  the wall is I don't think I've seen less [TS]

  than one entire episode of enterprise so [TS]

  that's not a spare but it on my break is [TS]

  alright you you should see the mirror [TS]

  episode it was that it was really [TS]

  different [TS]

  Brianna you've convinced me to give [TS]

  voyageur a chance and I'm going to do [TS]

  that already is that time I don't I [TS]

  don't I don't need somebody coming out [TS]

  of the woodwork as element enterprise [TS]

  the only people i don't know really an [TS]

  enterprise have taste profiles that are [TS]

  not compatible as the night the most [TS]

  diplomatic way huh [TS]

  they don't like good stuff i have a [TS]

  power song on my ipod for when I'm i do [TS]

  you know when you're out running and [TS]

  you're like I can't go any further and [TS]

  then you'd like you kicking your power [TS]

  song is the enterprise theme song for [TS]

  the mirror mirror episode because it's [TS]

  so awesome that you feel like the world [TS]

  is gonna end i will check that out maybe [TS]

  the best thing that ever prize has not [TS]

  for us is a single mp3 file his goods up [TS]

  the computer and the last yeah but last [TS]

  season it's not added until the aliens [TS]

  when it is very bad [TS]

  yeah the lens I like to like it secretly [TS]

  web i wish to Paul had been on deep [TS]

  space 9 [TS]

  she's good she was wasted character down [TS]

  tremendously raised a lot of land [TS]

  characters on enterprise though and and [TS]

  then and then even like Scott Bakula [TS]

  gets wasted but a lot of plans character [TS]

  Porthos he's cute [TS]

  you did nice dog but like Tucker and [TS]

  tucker and and and travis and then I [TS]

  mean we're gonna have another guy are [TS]

  like all interchangeable boring guys I [TS]

  do like dr. phlox well dr. phlox's fun [TS]

  I'm supposed dog into space i mean the [TS]

  Russians did that that's like show G but [TS]

  like bringing a dog to the workplace [TS]

  you're that guy who's got his dog in his [TS]

  cubicle and then the it comes to [TS]

  meetings with you [TS]

  he's the captain to do it once yet you [TS]

  know what I worked for that guy and that [TS]

  was that [TS]

  yeah I don't have don't need my escapism [TS]

  to have that guy like I grew I grew up [TS]

  with a beagle i have a beagle I would I [TS]

  was like the captain has a friggin [TS]

  beagle [TS]

  come on guys that is such hardcore fan [TS]

  service [TS]

  in JJ Abrams first Star Trek movie [TS]

  there's actually a reference to [TS]

  enterprise of all things and it's that [TS]

  Scotty reveals that he accidentally were [TS]

  not actually he tested his transport [TS]

  technology on Admiral archers beagle and [TS]

  and and Kirk says what happened he says [TS]

  I'll tell you when it reappears months [TS]

  off from the animal of history aa-t you [TS]

  killed the UQ technically they're not [TS]

  eviscerated the patterns just a group [TS]

  that integrated in the bumper that's the [TS]

  way I want to go but I you know that [TS]

  they will reappear in a Dyson Sphere [TS]

  will be kind of find that the little [TS]

  things that I did like about enterprise [TS]

  unfortunately just those first two [TS]

  seasons dragged down and possibly i [TS]

  really did dig the idea of hey let's do [TS]

  an away mission and wearing baseball [TS]

  caps and we've got the dog it's you know [TS]

  working like a barbecue later whatever [TS]

  enterprise bitch you know I David what's [TS]

  your choice i look at characters like [TS]

  Neelix and Harry Kim and and Chakotay [TS]

  and i still have to pick enterprise that [TS]

  was close friend and I'll also the first [TS]

  three seasons I just it is boring it is [TS]

  it's just I don't know it's it's it's [TS]

  like this time suck you know and I find [TS]

  myself reading or you know hey once [TS]

  what's what's over here and oh there's [TS]

  still a show on ok watching episodes of [TS]

  quantum leap you yeah well thinking [TS]

  about how would this have been really [TS]

  good if Sam Beckett leaped into Archer [TS]

  and then he would be fun but you know [TS]

  again once Manny Coto comes in [TS]

  boom yeah I just too late and oh you let [TS]

  it's just I can't I can't watch it [TS]

  I mean I go back I'm picking a voyager [TS]

  episodes that I haven't watched I still [TS]

  can't get through that first couple of [TS]

  seasons of enterprise you know I get how [TS]

  I I watched one because it was on random [TS]

  track and I wanted to be able to follow [TS]

  the conversation and and it was fine [TS]

  is that the one where dr. see where [TS]

  everybody's asleep you [TS]

  dr. flies good see that's what that's a [TS]

  blog site before those has a good part [TS]

  in that too [TS]

  yeah and attempted to dream to play i'm [TS]

  i'm there and then two-thirds way [TS]

  through it goes oh by the way this is [TS]

  still an enterprise plot and God would [TS]

  eject you had you were going you were [TS]

  going somewhere enterprises basically [TS]

  gotten four votes out of out of out of [TS]

  the five we've had so far so I think [TS]

  it's with you it has won this election [TS]

  of shame [TS]

  so as a result from my pic as the last [TS]

  voter i'm just going to take the [TS]

  animated series because that's not even [TS]

  star trek it doesn't even count [TS]

  forget it Oh Cindy and James do James [TS]

  doing does all the voices though all the [TS]

  voices every last one so let's move on [TS]

  it and we've been going for an hour so I [TS]

  want this to move quickly there are not [TS]

  that many to choose from [TS]

  you're gonna you're gonna give me your [TS]

  choice and a few sentences about it and [TS]

  then everybody else just needs to we'll [TS]

  just we'll do this quickly but we're [TS]

  going to talk about the movies there are [TS]

  many movies to choose from [TS]

  I wanted i'm going to go through and ask [TS]

  you for your favorite and then i'm going [TS]

  to go through and ask you for what you [TS]

  think the worst star trek movie is and [TS]

  we're going to start with is the worst [TS]

  the best start with the best we're gonna [TS]

  end on a negative note so we'll start [TS]

  with the best and this could be you know [TS]

  again it's not the raft [TS]

  what would you like to see what would [TS]

  you like to speak for iris I was [TS]

  waffling I was waffling between two [TS]

  different ones and and I'm gonna get a [TS]

  sailed again and I'm going to make a lot [TS]

  of can add JJ Abrams is 2009 star trek i [TS]

  legit try i hate my ssi I voice I have [TS]

  thought about choosing that too actually [TS]

  i will have watched that movie a lot [TS]

  the reason i'm choosing a is because i [TS]

  assume nobody else is going to choose [TS]

  trippin because I because I dragon but [TS]

  still yes okay well i know i'm just [TS]

  saying it's it's it's something that I i [TS]

  have a feeling somebody might pick it [TS]

  for a different category about going to [TS]

  say which category [TS]

  no spoilers the thing that I love about [TS]

  it is that it provides an entry point to [TS]

  star trek for people who actively [TS]

  actively resist getting anywhere near [TS]

  star track for the longest time possible [TS]

  now whether whether the the movie itself [TS]

  is a Star Trek fans cup of tea for me [TS]

  the [TS]

  reason that I think it is the best movie [TS]

  is because of the function that it [TS]

  serves for the cannon as a whole it [TS]

  provides an entry point for people that [TS]

  were 0 star trek stupid surcharge boring [TS]

  and granted it is not like a bunch of [TS]

  other star trek but there is going to be [TS]

  that person that gets into star trek [TS]

  from the Abrams movies yeah that goes [TS]

  back and looks at us and looks at eng [TS]

  and destabilize the star trek is [TS]

  something that you know what you [TS]

  jackasses the nerds were right all along [TS]

  its great distilled for me and we talk [TS]

  about this when we talked about the [TS]

  original series and Briana's reaction to [TS]

  it all that this this movie distilled [TS]

  for me what the things I loved about it [TS]

  while bringing it into a modern context [TS]

  it took those characters and and some of [TS]

  the aspects of the show and said okay [TS]

  it's been 50 years [TS]

  let's take another crack at this and I [TS]

  think successfully I wouldn't rank at [TS]

  first but i would rank highly so thumbs [TS]

  up [TS]

  yes it would be and it would be in my [TS]

  top three or four that that that mean [TS]

  that is my base i think i've got a [TS]

  number three in my in my list if I was [TS]

  waking them so yeah if I were you if I [TS]

  were picking personal favorite it would [TS]

  probably end up being star trek six [TS]

  interesting to tell Tony I your turn [TS]

  yeah i will choose the blade home as out [TS]

  oh no she was wrong LOL record is a lot [TS]

  of fun i get dr. Hans but love whales [TS]

  and [TS]

  and [TS]

  Darwin approves of your choice by the [TS]

  way your favorite Star Trek character [TS]

  from george clinton also if you through [TS]

  no mom and you know maybe I'm channeling [TS]

  a little bit too much my favorite movie [TS]

  as opposed to the best movie i have seen [TS]

  ifci watch that one more than any of the [TS]

  other Star Trek movies even though I [TS]

  prefer the next-gen movies but you know [TS]

  when you look at your options for the [TS]

  next ten movies your options aren't [TS]

  great so i resorted to movies into [TS]

  extended episodes and extended is [TS]

  generous so I think this movie has a lot [TS]

  of crossover appeal in terms of yes I [TS]

  mean some people might even say like [TS]

  well it's not a star trek movie because [TS]

  normal people can like it but what I was [TS]

  it was it was a hit yeah yeah we get all [TS]

  the people and it's you know it's really [TS]

  funny it still has cut you know neat [TS]

  Star Trek story to it [TS]

  um so yeah I love to isle of wight home [TS]

  i'm ok with whales captain and I the [TS]

  greater ringing have loaded with [TS]

  colorful metaphor arms up [TS]

  double double double dumbass on you boys [TS]

  is I don't know why I picked you out I [TS]

  feel like that doesn't one of the better [TS]

  right time traveling back to like yeah [TS]

  we conveniently shoot this in [TS]

  present-day for budgetary reasons than [TS]

  any other version of the head so San [TS]

  Francisco i was born is born it has so [TS]

  many great moments with scotty talking [TS]

  through the mouth computers man yeah you [TS]

  ten out will you [TS]

  Kirk selling the classes that McCoy gave [TS]

  him and spots like Captain that was a [TS]

  gift and it will be able to think again [TS]

  will be again was just dark ages [TS]

  Abram sites there's a reference to this [TS]

  and in the from star trek to because [TS]

  there's the spock tell Scotty something [TS]

  from the future about transwarp beaming [TS]

  which is how Scotty invented it which is [TS]

  just like when Scotty teaches the guy [TS]

  how to make transparent aluminum it's [TS]

  the same thing [TS]

  Scotty captain of the USS paradox it [TS]

  gets to be really funny but the [TS]

  characters are still very much then the [TS]

  tournament only have like McCoy and pies [TS]

  that people are something like you know [TS]

  they know really characters are wider [TS]

  they're able to have funny things with [TS]

  them dr. McCoy I always what is this [TS]

  bizarre college yet doctor gave me a [TS]

  pill grooming new kidney [TS]

  I love that moment that [TS]

  movement a little lady in the hospital [TS]

  David what's your what's your choice a [TS]

  wrath of God now hands down I can't you [TS]

  know my second favorite star trek movie [TS]

  is so far away from wrath of khan ality [TS]

  because it's his operatic is the first [TS]

  time Jim Kirk genuinely faces death and [TS]

  faces something that learned something [TS]

  and of course Jackie wins it back and [TS]

  erases it and then the next movie but we [TS]

  didn't know that then and you know it's [TS]

  it's the one time we at least in the [TS]

  movies where he has an adversary that's [TS]

  worthy of him where he has to use his [TS]

  brain and he can't just sleep with a hot [TS]

  chick to get out of whatever it is you [TS]

  know it's it's like you get to see him [TS]

  as a tactical genius which he supposedly [TS]

  is you get to see him playing poker [TS]

  essentially and and you get Ricardo [TS]

  Montalban chewing every inch of the [TS]

  scenery the chapter hasn't you also get [TS]

  his most mature relationship with a [TS]

  woman with Carol Marcus and I mean [TS]

  there's just there's so many levels to [TS]

  it and and you know I credit nick meyer [TS]

  with putting many of those levels in but [TS]

  it is just I mean there are things that [TS]

  that I still think about how they all [TS]

  connect i still have huge chunks of the [TS]

  dialogue stuck in my head I love all the [TS]

  other good movies but that when I mean [TS]

  that would be on my desert island discs [TS]

  that would be one of the five i would [TS]

  take the aisle I can't really watch it [TS]

  because the seven years into skirt my [TS]

  wife is the same way she saw when she I [TS]

  don't want something crawling by ear and [TS]

  they put your interest in our bodies [TS]

  made us realize two things i have [TS]

  extremely strong feelings about that i [TS]

  just love the kirk and Carol Marcus have [TS]

  sent everyone else off into the Genesis [TS]

  coca and they have this really intense [TS]

  you know like one of the most serious [TS]

  conversations you ever seen Star Trek [TS]

  and check out his lying in the back of [TS]

  the cave going [TS]

  don't make me listen to these kept in [TS]

  too much information [TS]

  he can't he can't hear anything is just [TS]

  got done yeah he'll love this year I hit [TS]

  the Rangers dream [TS]

  yeah i think yes I of course David you [TS]

  know we we did a whole episode about it [TS]

  i'm going to their that's right Briana [TS]

  what do you think i have to agree and [TS]

  there's so few movies that are of that [TS]

  quality the would not change a single [TS]

  scene of them and I just you know I've [TS]

  watched in Reverse like I mean you know [TS]

  like I grew up in the nineties don't [TS]

  love with Voyager and start watching the [TS]

  original movies and it's it's just so [TS]

  far and away the best script the best [TS]

  acting um I just I couldn't say single [TS]

  bad thing about it [TS]

  the money is less scary if you watch in [TS]

  Reverse too because the stuffing out of [TS]

  bounds back online you detonate they say [TS]

  people would argue that they doing at [TS]

  the goodies and it ends when they [TS]

  dropped car off on desert planet the end [TS]

  I i literally cry every single time that [TS]

  spot die like I don't work crush dancing [TS]

  about this thing looks like i have never [TS]

  cried in a movie theater [TS]

  oh yeah the i mean the the moment I mean [TS]

  I get sandwich spot guys it's when [TS]

  Kirk's voice catches and you know is was [TS]

  the most human human you know it's like [TS]

  oh you know it for me it's the moment [TS]

  where where where Kirk gets the call [TS]

  better come down here [TS]

  better yeah that's it starts now and he [TS]

  looked at chairs and share is m times [TS]

  no I'm getting chills right have to go [TS]

  now Scott I like Star Trek to also [TS]

  because the that's the first starter [TS]

  where you feel like Kirk's actions [TS]

  actually have consequences [TS]

  yeah bad things just happen to you [TS]

  because he's just been gallivanting [TS]

  about the galaxy but I'm not gonna pick [TS]

  it because it is in fact my favorite one [TS]

  but i hope it sure you're gonna do what [TS]

  I'm going to do which is just yeah okay [TS]

  Scott and I are in complete agreement [TS]

  then ok go Scott go go for it first [TS]

  contact was I feel like generations is I [TS]

  guess technically the first [TS]

  next-generation movie but it had captain [TS]

  kirk and Scotty was in it and he kinda [TS]

  you know stole the show a little bit so [TS]

  the really first next-generation move [TS]

  for me was first contact yeah and it was [TS]

  just fantastic a lot of fun i love the [TS]

  Borg so anytime the board on a big [TS]

  screen with a big-budget you've got me [TS]

  sold the poor Queen is great creepy [TS]

  character Zefram Cochrane is fantastic [TS]

  yeah Troy getting drunk is fun reg [TS]

  Barclay makes an appearance [TS]

  yeah course little near and dear to my [TS]

  heart is it a cinematic wonder know but [TS]

  it's a lot of fun [TS]

  jean-luc Picard goes crazy and and I [TS]

  just like it it is my second favorite [TS]

  star trek movie after wrath of khan i [TS]

  feel like it gets short shrift people [TS]

  kind of wave away the next generation [TS]

  movies but it's a really really good [TS]

  movie made on not a big budget but they [TS]

  did they did a lot of help they did a [TS]

  lot of good stuff with it's a great [TS]

  combination of the you know it's time [TS]

  travel back in time but it still in our [TS]

  future [TS]

  lots of fun lots of action a really [TS]

  great action on the ship some great [TS]

  character moments you bro you know I [TS]

  must be drawn here you broke your little [TS]

  ships all of that stuff I I do I'll i [TS]

  love it i think it is i would rank its [TS]

  second and then the JJ Abrams Star Trek [TS]

  third but it is AC Picard's big old [TS]

  biceps here over here include a great [TS]

  great data moments there's that great [TS]

  action sequence when they're out on the [TS]

  deflector dish with Worf and he ties the [TS]

  guys like arm around as a tourniquet and [TS]

  oh my god [TS]

  lots of great stuff in that and it's [TS]

  worth mentioning you know it's not [TS]

  raffiq on Deanna Troi getting drunk is [TS]

  the most a woman gets to do in the next [TS]

  generation movie so I'm with you [TS]

  yeah well actually i like i like Alfredo [TS]

  it watered it is kind of a thankless [TS]

  part yet she was just being the moral [TS]

  compass 44 Picard and that and yeah yeah [TS]

  yeah she's more part comes for Picard [TS]

  and Zefram Cochrane in fat which which [TS]

  you don't know i can get to see and I [TS]

  loved one should be bored is that sweet [TS]

  yeah and for queen is a great for queen [TS]

  is a great character Alex creek does a [TS]

  really great job with the board queen [TS]

  too [TS]

  yeah yeah where's alfre woodard statue [TS]

  in the star trek universe effort Cochran [TS]

  got one [TS]

  yeah yeah typical typical man they're [TS]

  very post nuclear war of them to do that [TS]

  it's it's a great example of what an [TS]

  outstanding director Jonathan fresas [TS]

  their hand and I'm I'm really it really [TS]

  deeply bothers [TS]

  that that that he basically you know he [TS]

  got thrown to go here go to the [TS]

  Thunderbirds movie after insurrection [TS]

  now because he he is and he's to this [TS]

  day one of the best sharpest TV [TS]

  directors out there alongside of another [TS]

  one of Star Trek colleagues roxann [TS]

  dawson yeah so let's let's move on and [TS]

  on a negative note we're going to let [TS]

  everybody bring out your dead the star [TS]

  trek movie that you could just can't [TS]

  take David Laura we're going to start [TS]

  with you for a long time for a long time [TS]

  it was nemesis cos i mean there are two [TS]

  good words in the whole film in there [TS]

  Irving Berlin that's it but I thought [TS]

  you were going to say blue sky do [TS]

  god no i'm not in irving berlin and [TS]

  anyway let me get the best scene in [TS]

  emphasis was a deleted scene which would [TS]

  have made the film marginally less awful [TS]

  but the movie that right now for me I [TS]

  cannot stand and and it's I've I flipped [TS]

  on this in the last year is into [TS]

  darkness [TS]

  oh because because it has some great [TS]

  stuff in it but the more i think about [TS]

  it the less it makes sense and the thing [TS]

  that pisses me off about it and boy this [TS]

  pisses me off when the spoilers get out [TS]

  about wrath of khan host box gonna dice [TS]

  box gonna die you're supposed to die [TS]

  halfway through the movie so nick meyer [TS]

  shut it down rewrote the whole thing so [TS]

  that it starts off with spot dyeing and [TS]

  then [TS]

  oh that must have been what they were [TS]

  talking about so thats box actual death [TS]

  at the end hits you even harder right [TS]

  when the news got out about a Benedict [TS]

  Cumberbatch's gonna be con what JJ [TS]

  Abrams do he went [TS]

  no he isn't and that's it and he kept [TS]

  going with the movie had as if this was [TS]

  going to be a big surprise [TS]

  oh he's really con oh yeah I know I lied [TS]

  to get back just makes me angry but I [TS]

  love a lot of it [TS]

  there are conflicting reports as to as [TS]

  to the actual the actual everything that [TS]

  happened behind the scenes in terms of [TS]

  who wanted to keep what secret and who [TS]

  wanted to make that character hold on [TS]

  i'm just saying i do not lay all the [TS]

  blame on JJ Abrams because he's the [TS]

  director because this is something that [TS]

  people do all the time the directors no [TS]

  minors and fall for everything so we [TS]

  hold on hold on i'm just saying well now [TS]

  i know so what I'll say is I don't think [TS]

  I don't think information roll out of a [TS]

  movie is legitimate criticism of the [TS]

  movie but your opinion is noted [TS]

  Brianna to turn oh yeah oh it's it's [TS]

  really top tough question [TS]

  it's hard to be negative hard to choose [TS]

  from many so many bad movies either way [TS]

  for a long time it was the one with the [TS]

  whales because I'm sorry [TS]

  sony she doesn't even know the number [TS]

  she doesn't even know the number help me [TS]

  so dog [TS]

  I'm sorry don't worry Tony this is a [TS]

  safe place wait i have your time leaders [TS]

  meeting about Star Trek for a voice on [TS]

  the highway [TS]

  what's not to love you sorry I'm amongst [TS]

  people because someone threatening my [TS]

  way its entire was very upset yeah it's [TS]

  cool like being in a stolen Klingon shop [TS]

  like that's kind of cool but it's just [TS]

  so campy and like transparent aluminum [TS]

  and it's it's just so much about is bad [TS]

  but that's that like actually I've been [TS]

  arguing with Frank my husband about [TS]

  which was the worst and he actually made [TS]

  me to watch all these along the number [TS]

  you know again I again I am stir well as [TS]

  the worst part but i'm going to have [TS]

  that out like let's decide objectively [TS]

  which one is worse and i don't think the [TS]

  worst one I think that you have to say [TS]

  star trek insurrection is the worst one [TS]

  on everything for data like because it [TS]

  used as a flotation device from from you [TS]

  know two women took out their boobs [TS]

  being Farber to like either plastic [TS]

  surgeons as oh yeah very poor hands [TS]

  and with the staple gun yeah oh it's [TS]

  going on blemishes it's bad but every [TS]

  conceivable angle that could be bad and [TS]

  I understand what they were going for [TS]

  like a dark Federation was making [TS]

  difficult choices because they're about [TS]

  to lose that's a cool idea for series [TS]

  and I got the the design of the [TS]

  enterprise was actually one of the best [TS]

  ships and all star track but it just it [TS]

  fails in every way moving into the hell [TS]

  i don't think there's much you can say [TS]

  something about it [TS]

  yeah yep that's not a good one Scott [TS]

  what's your what's your choice [TS]

  well now I'm questioning my choice [TS]

  because I agree with bri haha don't know [TS]

  what's going on but instruction uh is [TS]

  awful awful awful it's boring [TS]

  it makes little sense and it is just [TS]

  don't watch it and it's it's even worse [TS]

  than Star Trek five [TS]

  yeah that's saying I'm not saying [TS]

  something is aa is what do you think [TS]

  enough people who said insurrection I'm [TS]

  gonna go with the one that that for me [TS]

  is worst totally for sentimental reasons [TS]

  and not not because of the qualitative [TS]

  judgment i have for it and it's also the [TS]

  reason that i can't i can't say wrath of [TS]

  khan is my favorite one of the movies [TS]

  anymore my younger brother and I watched [TS]

  all these movies all the time he was [TS]

  autistic and Star Trek was one of things [TS]

  he loved deepest and most dearly on the [TS]

  planet and I in things about 2010 he got [TS]

  cancer and my mom went on this tour of [TS]

  taking in Star Trek conventions and [TS]

  paying the absorbent amount of money so [TS]

  that he could see all the actors in the [TS]

  and take pictures with them and do that [TS]

  kind of thing and he was particularly [TS]

  fixated on the the heat the the magical [TS]

  device of star trek 3 reviving Spock as [TS]

  he was clinging to this kind of you know [TS]

  reincarnation thing there was no way [TS]

  that he was going to you know lose to [TS]

  cancer and that sort of thing [TS]

  well and I the thing the thing that just [TS]

  makes it to wear for me I just can't I [TS]

  can't watch it which you know could be [TS]

  related to the same reason a lot of [TS]

  people dislike them because we go it's [TS]

  just [TS]

  cop out nobody really dies in this [TS]

  universe is that he finally went and saw [TS]

  William Shatner in the show and he you [TS]

  know that the captain got briefed on [TS]

  what was going on with my brother any he [TS]

  said I need you to look me right now and [TS]

  i'm going to give you a direct order and [TS]

  I need you to need to listen to your [TS]

  mother an initiative to be to be well [TS]

  behaved and fight the cancer fight it [TS]

  and it like it was it was like a like a [TS]

  dollar wrath of khan level of conviction [TS]

  that he gave this thing and and for me [TS]

  it's it's emblematic and we're just [TS]

  talking about any part of Star Trek or [TS]

  Star Wars or anything what we consider [TS]

  best and worst there those really deeply [TS]

  subjective things about them that aside [TS]

  from creaky production values or overtly [TS]

  misogynist narratives or you know [TS]

  favorite characters being mistreated or [TS]

  something like that you know that for me [TS]

  makes me reflect on on the way that I [TS]

  feel about all of this stuff and and [TS]

  made me think about things through it [TS]

  through a different lens in terms of [TS]

  what I like and what I don't like and [TS]

  the reasons that i'm convinced that I [TS]

  like or don't like them and I probably [TS]

  brought the room way way down against on [TS]

  it honey and honey totally unfun path [TS]

  but but for me it's when I think about [TS]

  worst or that i liked the least because [TS]

  I have such deep personal connection so [TS]

  many bits of of track that's that's [TS]

  where my head goes well alright thanks [TS]

  for sharing that much as I appreciate it [TS]

  Tony what's your deeply personal story [TS]

  no I'm sorry [TS]

  don't even try that is what do you got [TS]

  what movie do not like what show us on [TS]

  the dolphin where they do that you know [TS]

  you can't trust a dolphin [TS]

  I yeah I never trusted often they're [TS]

  like sharks swimming without with smiles [TS]

  um sorry um alright i will go for big we [TS]

  we beat on interaction and nemesis a [TS]

  bunch which they totally deserve the [TS]

  other star trek movie that I cannot make [TS]

  it through rewatching that does not have [TS]

  used in it [TS]

  Star Trek the motion power yeah [TS]

  real home which I think it's just yeah [TS]

  the motionless picture and like our for [TS]

  there's an eel I I think it's just it's [TS]

  really boring [TS]

  it has all these extended [TS]

  special-effects sequences that maybe [TS]

  we're really exciting at the time didn't [TS]

  know just they weren't eight no okay i I [TS]

  don't I mean yeah and there's a lot of [TS]

  there's a lot of shots of people [TS]

  watching the extended special-effects [TS]

  sequences and no it's got a minute it's [TS]

  also i mean the saddest thing about it [TS]

  is like this was like Star Trek after [TS]

  there was no star trek for 10 years [TS]

  right yeah and this basically ends up [TS]

  being Star Trek's the Phantom Menace [TS]

  because there's so much for the good [TS]

  parts of the original series that is [TS]

  stripped out of this right i mean it's [TS]

  not fun it's not very interesting [TS]

  there's some kind of neat cerebral stuff [TS]

  with with the plot but even the plot is [TS]

  kind of a retread of they've already [TS]

  done this episode of classic track right [TS]

  and then yeah this movie is more than [TS]

  two hours long [TS]

  when guess what there was about as much [TS]

  plot as one episode of classic track so [TS]

  i just find it really boring and just [TS]

  devastatingly disappointing after 10 [TS]

  years without star track it's a bad it's [TS]

  a bad movie I think 2i and I and yet I [TS]

  feel like there's probably a decent [TS]

  movie in it and there's a director's cut [TS]

  version that is better than the original [TS]

  that was really about 65 know what order [TS]

  it's shorter I you know they spent a lot [TS]

  of money on those effects and the whole [TS]

  idea was like oh Star Wars got effects [TS]

  we got this big model we can make these [TS]

  beautiful model shots of the enterprise [TS]

  and let's show them all with music [TS]

  playing and it goes on in fact many of [TS]

  the shots are reused at the beginning of [TS]

  star trek to the wrath of khan and those [TS]

  are the most boring scenes in Wrath of [TS]

  Khan and they're just tiny clips fri [TS]

  mother that is physically executive ran [TS]

  a formula and determine the starship [TS]

  track the motion picture would be great [TS]

  oh my god and so so I really I really [TS]

  agree with you about that although i [TS]

  feel like there is a better movie in [TS]

  here then even the director's cut if [TS]

  there had been more restraint with the [TS]

  editing and reduced it wouldn't have [TS]

  been a great movie but it would've been [TS]

  better i mean it you can you can talk [TS]

  about some of the issues with Decker and [TS]

  I Leia and how this is a retread of that [TS]

  changeling episode with Nomad right it's [TS]

  just it's not it's not that different [TS]

  and it's sort of Roddenberry [TS]

  it is worst to and it is a TV script [TS]

  actually from their failed reboot in the [TS]

  seventies of Star Trek and so there [TS]

  isn't anything they're teaching you got [TS]

  a new script for us [TS]

  hold on a minute let me brush the dust [TS]

  off of this one is about 30 years old [TS]

  well no no in fact that this was more [TS]

  like they they were going to try to your [TS]

  TV network and it failed and it but they [TS]

  have the script and they had two sets [TS]

  and I like well then let's just do a [TS]

  movie and they as we've got all these [TS]

  sets from Genesis to know that they were [TS]

  star trek phase to set [TS]

  yeah they were gonna make engine [TS]

  transmission and still through and they [TS]

  reused this script and a root reused [TS]

  actually a couple other scripts for next [TS]

  generation episode and they were like [TS]

  let's cash you know this the star wars [TS]

  think the kids are india exactly one of [TS]

  the things that generally fascinated me [TS]

  is that the Warner Archive Collection is [TS]

  put out on DVD some of the various TV [TS]

  pilots of Gene Roddenberry's that [TS]

  totally failed promises to what question [TS]

  tapes all those are you guys are under [TS]

  all the horrible shows that were on in [TS]

  like the mid-nineties that were Gene [TS]

  Roddenberry something Andromeda yeah [TS]

  inspired by a note that you're very like [TS]

  fight club with its grocery list that [TS]

  actually a drama and drama wasn't that [TS]

  wasn't that bad show it was it would [TS]

  have been better as a star trek show [TS]

  because the whole idea was what if the [TS]

  enterprise got cotton around like a [TS]

  black hole and came out of like a [TS]

  thousand years later and the Federation [TS]

  had fallen apart [TS]

  it was kind of a neat idea you know and [TS]

  then it was like kevin sorbo and yeah [TS]

  well you know it was a syndicated [TS]

  weekend TV show can i end this on a [TS]

  positive note about that would they know [TS]

  what do you know about motion picture [TS]

  and I will finish us off by taking [TS]

  negative again but go ahead [TS]

  oh yeah feat b.o.b retail diverse it's [TS]

  like nemesis but on a podcast [TS]

  no I i obviously great it's not it [TS]

  doesn't fit in the the star trac feel [TS]

  you know overall i said i do think there [TS]

  is some good in this video I think the I [TS]

  think the Decker Kirk scenes are [TS]

  amazingly tense man I just I feel it [TS]

  when chapters at the top of his game and [TS]

  he's really acting i think is really [TS]

  good i think it sucks for [TS]

  student teaching no no that's not it was [TS]

  not going to talk about his writing [TS]

  right but i really like I think those [TS]

  scenes in the friction between them are [TS]

  really intense yeah it's good filming I [TS]

  think for a sound design perspective um [TS]

  of course like the endless shots of cg [TS]

  MCG like shots going through through [TS]

  space set to classical music or bad but [TS]

  I think like this scene where you know [TS]

  time is slowing down is dilating [TS]

  decorative place the order so they fired [TS]

  over on whether in the wormhole [TS]

  yeah I think that's a really cool [TS]

  example of sound design building [TS]

  attention in the scene in a way that you [TS]

  could never ever ever ever ever making [TS]

  2014 movie and I it's cool i think it's [TS]

  retro cool in the same way to think to [TS]

  us is sometimes retro-cool it bothers me [TS]

  because I felt like there was no reason [TS]

  for that to even happen other than that [TS]

  they wanted to do something cool with [TS]

  the warp drive that we haven't seen [TS]

  before like oh the warp drive wasn't set [TS]

  up right so we had a wormhole but now [TS]

  we're fine [TS]

  okay yeah my negativity is gonna be I do [TS]

  it look like i said i think there's some [TS]

  stuff that can be salvaged out of the [TS]

  movie i think that it needed and edit [TS]

  that I'm gonna pick the final frontier [TS]

  only because everybody has already [TS]

  picked my number one pick which was [TS]

  insurrection which is really truly bad [TS]

  and nemesis is also not very good but [TS]

  III can't endorse it as the worst only [TS]

  because it is literally the only well [TS]

  notice the final frontier nemesis of the [TS]

  only star trek movies i've only seen [TS]

  once i saw final frontier in in the [TS]

  movie theater [TS]

  it is not good and it's so not good in [TS]

  so many ways the direction is bad some [TS]

  of the character interactions ok some of [TS]

  the broad comedy like when Scotty walks [TS]

  into that pipe that is so awful all and [TS]

  and the special effects are [TS]

  spectacularly bad the story is that the [TS]

  guy who was supposed to do them and took [TS]

  their money didn't come through with a [TS]

  special effects and so in desperation [TS]

  they went to industrial light and magic [TS]

  and said we need we need help and the [TS]

  the release date is this and they all [TS]

  laughed and said ok well here's what we [TS]

  can do we can whip up some some basic [TS]

  stuff from our archive or maybe a few [TS]

  shots really quickly but you gotta give [TS]

  us like the conch [TS]

  back for the next star trek movie and [TS]

  pay us in advance for that and then [TS]

  we'll do both or something this is the [TS]

  story and as a result there's some great [TS]

  shots in Star Trek five of the [TS]

  enterprise like hanging in space at a [TS]

  weird angle that doesn't make any sense [TS]

  and why are they like that and is it [TS]

  just an error and the answer is yeah [TS]

  pretty much it is they they've had no [TS]

  special effects and didn't know what [TS]

  they were doing [TS]

  Jason why don't I pour you some of this [TS]

  Kentucky whiskey and you tell us how you [TS]

  really what wasn't [TS]

  what does God need with a spaceship good [TS]

  question uh question what does God need [TS]

  with this exam and then there's this [TS]

  movie and Sybok I i decry the existence [TS]

  of Sybok your pain Jason and oh man oh [TS]

  so i am going to my pain i'm gonna gonna [TS]

  throw in a vote for structured five [TS]

  satins finally I remember being a child [TS]

  watching that and do not feel too bad [TS]

  about watching a movie [TS]

  this is not good plot is bad ever had [TS]

  that feeling yeah I'd like everything [TS]

  was great yeah oh yeah i was very dumb [TS]

  as a kid my dad took me to see it in the [TS]

  theater and he fell asleep and yeah and [TS]

  when I noticed he was asleep it was [TS]

  during like the climax of the movie i [TS]

  woke him up and he leaned over too many [TS]

  years like it we should both take a nap [TS]

  yeah not although it has a pool table [TS]

  that is actually pool and they play a [TS]

  game on it [TS]

  meeting my idea flashes put so hers [TS]

  burlesque background into Canada oh [TS]

  that's right so that's that one right so [TS]

  what we didn't get to this time is best [TS]

  and worst captain overrated and [TS]

  underrated episodes and we didn't even [TS]

  get on to things like alien races which [TS]

  we also need to do so you know what's [TS]

  gonna have to happen next we're gonna [TS]

  have to do another one of these [TS]

  sometimes haha yeah we will continue [TS]

  best and worst star trek debate club at [TS]

  another time but this has been pleasure [TS]

  and it's getting late so we're going to [TS]

  wrap it up here [TS]

  thank you to my guess Brianna Wu a [TS]

  pleasure as always even though i am from [TS]

  mirror universe i look forward to the [TS]

  angry tweets man you know there's [TS]

  nothing I gamergate is nothing compared [TS]

  to start practicing this is what I just [TS]

  warmin up [TS]

  No [TS]

  yeah that will be next anyone and I [TS]

  don't even say I don't want to go David [TS]

  Laura thank you thank you is to you on [TS]

  it's a pleasure as always thanks for [TS]

  having me i don't know what anybody else [TS]

  is worried about I different Deep Space [TS]

  Nine and JJ Abrams ah this is true this [TS]

  is true [TS]

  Tony sindelar thank you so much for [TS]

  being here and sharing your your your [TS]

  pain and your love whales and dolphins [TS]

  with us [TS]

  I'm judgment I don't know what to look [TS]

  anymore yeah I know I know and Scott [TS]

  McNulty you you have been and will [TS]

  always be my friend i was going to say [TS]

  that to you Jason [TS]

  well then say it well now you've done it [TS]

  i I'm just perplexed but that people [TS]

  have opinions that are different than my [TS]

  own doesn't doesn't compete [TS]

  let's just start around roederer hair [TS]

  our air our I just like this initially [TS]

  record i'm pro whale anti dull and dr. [TS]

  Neil Baxter all right setting no I mean [TS]

  said yeah yeah no other seals your [TS]

  neutral on I i think to be that now that [TS]

  we've all had it out let's go have some [TS]

  tranya [TS]

  I hope you relish it as much as I oh my [TS]

  oh my [TS]

  and to everybody out there thank you for [TS]

  listening to the latest edition of best [TS]

  worsen surgery debate club or whatever [TS]

  we call it will be back for more at a [TS]

  future time because we just can't stop [TS]

  we'll see you next time [TS]

  everybody just a reminder check out the [TS]

  incomparable dot-com for many other [TS]

  great podcast that you like including [TS]

  scott McNulty's random track which is [TS]

  about Star Trek TV we're breaking down [TS]

  every episode of doctor who this season [TS]

  and also sons of anarchy total party [TS]

  killer D&D podcast the brand-new TV talk [TS]

  machine where i talk to Tim Goodman at [TS]

  the hollywood reporter about what's [TS]

  notable on television and we're even [TS]

  teasing a new season of the [TS]

  uncomfortable radio theater coming soon [TS]

  also be sure to check out my website six [TS]

  colors dot-com its new i don't work for [TS]

  mac world anymore and I appreciate your [TS]

  support [TS]