The Incomparable

214: Fun is Underrated


  the incomparable number 214 October 2014 [TS]

  welcome back everybody to be [TS]

  uncomfortable i'm your host Jason still [TS]

  it is an addition of our book club so I [TS]

  have called some readers together and [TS]

  what we're going to be talking about in [TS]

  this episode is a series of books with [TS]

  some light spoilers but we are going to [TS]

  blow the spoiler horn and then we'll [TS]

  tell you when you can come back later [TS]

  late to find out what we're reading but [TS]

  a series of books they're currently four [TS]

  novels in this series the the series is [TS]

  called the expanse the author is James [TS]

  sa Corey who is not a person because [TS]

  it's actually two guys Daniel Abraham [TS]

  anti-french the protomolecule he's [TS]

  saying that it's not really no [TS]

  oh and the the novels are Leviathan [TS]

  wakes caliban's war avignon skate and [TS]

  cebolla burn some of us have read all of [TS]

  them some of some red sort of one of [TS]

  them and one ish and in between so I I [TS]

  guess I mean between i read three plus [TS]

  of them i'm reading the fourth one now [TS]

  anyway I really fun series we recommend [TS]

  it highly we'll talk about it a little [TS]

  bit before we blow the spoiler horn off [TS]

  and joining me when I say we I mean Dan [TS]

  Moore and welcome back [TS]

  dan I'm back it's so good to be back [TS]

  yes I i mean i'm on a podcast with you [TS]

  every week but not these turn on the [TS]

  uncomfortable back here yes it's good to [TS]

  have you back here back among friends [TS]

  yes exactly not like wait a second [TS]

  you're not like that other 1i I'm saying [TS]

  that my podcast I constantly try to get [TS]

  usurped alright fair enough [TS]

  good point David lower as well hello [TS]

  hello there and of course it would not [TS]

  be a book club episode except for the [TS]

  ones we do about Stephen King novels and [TS]

  things without Scott multi hello or [TS]

  harry potter or in the direction it [TS]

  would not be perfect but i don't even [TS]

  consider those real book club episodes [TS]

  because they don't feature Scott McNulty [TS]

  well that's what those are booked [TS]

  episodes not really properly in the book [TS]

  club do any episodes feature Scott [TS]

  McNulty I don't think so [TS]

  I know although they might listen to you [TS]

  talk and talk and talk on your own [TS]

  random track podcast and I think why [TS]

  doesn't he speak on the incompetent [TS]

  lemme answer is he feels no need it's [TS]

  going fine I'll just sit here and enjoy [TS]

  your listening to the podcast I have to [TS]

  speak the only two people on that other [TS]

  guests so if i don't see you and your [TS]

  the whole of it that would be a great [TS]

  podcast by the way if you just invited [TS]

  somebody on and then didn't say ne [TS]

  welcome to see the latest episode of [TS]

  silence with Scott me tell me where we [TS]

  sit quietly for 45 minutes and think [TS]

  about what we've done be an easy edit [TS]

  that would be good [TS]

  so the experience I you know this is a [TS]

  really interesting series in that it is [TS]

  it has already been picked up as a [TS]

  10-episode season on the SyFy channel so [TS]

  this as the expanse not as Leviathan [TS]

  wakes and we talked if that entitle [TS]

  sounds familiar episode 96 of the [TS]

  incomparable space fedora which was the [TS]

  2012 Hugo or dominis included Leviathan [TS]

  wakes which was nominated for the hugo [TS]

  this is a this is a would-be faith fair [TS]

  to call this a space opera kind of [TS]

  series do you think i give it an excited [TS]

  that you know I i was thinking about [TS]

  this is I've been reading them because [TS]

  generally when I think space opera I [TS]

  think sweeping galactic adventures not [TS]

  to spoil anything so I want any but the [TS]

  the bulk of these happen within the [TS]

  solar system [TS]

  yeah but there's a lot of moving around [TS]

  a lot of plants are involved so I was I [TS]

  was trying to think of what it I mean [TS]

  it's certainly space opera like solar [TS]

  system holiday ask can we call the space [TS]

  operetta I like it that sauce that's how [TS]

  much for just the planet I space i think [TS]

  i think solar system opera perhaps [TS]

  because it is it the idea here is that [TS]

  people are going you know between Mars [TS]

  and Earth and the outer planets and and [TS]

  moons of jupiter and saturn and the [TS]

  asteroid belt and they've got different [TS]

  spaceships and they're different [TS]

  factions and and that's from the very [TS]

  beginning [TS]

  that's the setting of of these novels [TS]

  and and so it's not quite super wide [TS]

  screen of we walking but you know across [TS]

  the entire galaxy but definitely it's [TS]

  it's got the it's got that though if you [TS]

  keep in mind that the name of the series [TS]

  is [TS]

  the expanse yeah it makes you wonder [TS]

  night you might think that's going to [TS]

  need that blends pulls back at some [TS]

  point we'll we'll we'll get to that but [TS]

  that's actually one of the interesting [TS]

  things about the construction of the [TS]

  series is a series so the story is Scott [TS]

  my to dan did you read Leviathan wakes [TS]

  for that part for that podcast i did not [TS]

  i read it later on i read a month or two [TS]

  ago so we read that for that episode [TS]

  that because it was a hugo nominee and [TS]

  it was good [TS]

  it's a good book i didn't quite the [TS]

  perspective i have on it now is very [TS]

  different because now I think of it as [TS]

  like the first season or whatever of [TS]

  this you know that this book series [TS]

  which is every June it seems these guys [TS]

  put out a new book in this series and [TS]

  they seem fairly maybe they're wrong [TS]

  yeah well it takes two guys to write a [TS]

  book this long at once a year but I like [TS]

  that about it and it and now having read [TS]

  three and a half of them it is it is a [TS]

  series so you can jump in with Leviathan [TS]

  wakes and I just my opinion of it has [TS]

  changed now that I realized what I was [TS]

  reading what sort of started this larger [TS]

  epic instead of the sort of you know [TS]

  science fiction novel that I thought it [TS]

  was that was smaller [TS]

  I'm not small scale but not quite the [TS]

  same as being part of a giant series so [TS]

  i guess i don't remember from that [TS]

  episode and remember folks on that [TS]

  episode what people thought of it was [TS]

  there anything you say it was ok for you [TS]

  you were not so that's good you look [TS]

  like you don't remember I don't remember [TS]

  any pockets on either so you're enough [TS]

  so I mean did you said it was ok but you [TS]

  didn't see i loved it i thought it was [TS]

  the best book I've read in knots in fact [TS]

  i will take an unpopular position right [TS]

  now and say that I enjoyed it much more [TS]

  than I enjoyed ancillary justice which I [TS]

  know everybody all out [TS]

  wow it was nice talking too much you [TS]

  need to get out of the house more [TS]

  Scott Scott is not wrong often but you [TS]

  know it happens [TS]

  no it no don't say that it doesn't ever [TS]

  have that like I just I'm just enjoying [TS]

  this too much I didn't even think ID [TS]

  with the clients and wakes was the best [TS]

  of the hugo nominated well well among [TS]

  others was in that guy group and that [TS]

  that was the best of [TS]

  them but Leviathan wakes was good that I [TS]

  i like that in fact I I think maybe I [TS]

  voted like 2nd and 3rd but it is good [TS]

  and no space for that the clever thing [TS]

  about Leviathan wakes and actually damn [TS]

  one of the reasons i bet you like it is [TS]

  one of the characters one of the two [TS]

  characters that is in Leviathan wakes is [TS]

  this a detective with a hat space [TS]

  detective with his baby dora does have a [TS]

  hat and I know you like that kind of nor [TS]

  detective things and this is like a [TS]

  space noir detective story there's a [TS]

  girl she's missing detective Miller [TS]

  needs to find her [TS]

  of course there in the outer planets but [TS]

  uh but you've got that she's shooters [TS]

  she's a rich girl but she's gone missing [TS]

  and and they don't really know what's [TS]

  going on there and then meanwhile [TS]

  there's this uh this pilot who's who [TS]

  whoo he and his crew have a different [TS]

  set of adventures and they kind of go [TS]

  back and forth and in your messages over [TS]

  time the stories come to ya-ya the [TS]

  politics of this of the setting and of [TS]

  this book are fascinating to because [TS]

  you've got these is a multipolar solar [TS]

  system you've got Earth and Mars and the [TS]

  outer planets who are trying to exert [TS]

  themselves as independent as well and so [TS]

  you've got that as the backdrop and then [TS]

  you've got these individual people who [TS]

  are just like trying to get get on and [TS]

  do their jobs whether onna on a colony [TS]

  or they're flying a ship and then of [TS]

  course what happens in Leviathan wakes [TS]

  is that something something crazy [TS]

  happens that is you know is it is an [TS]

  alien it's unknown there's kind of a you [TS]

  know a discovery that's made about you [TS]

  know without spoiling it too much [TS]

  something you know state they discover [TS]

  something crazy and that leads to a [TS]

  whole bunch of other complications on [TS]

  top of it it and in some ways to me [TS]

  anyways that too is like the least [TS]

  compelling part of the story like it [TS]

  gets interesting and it is a catalyst [TS]

  but i think the things that i really [TS]

  enjoyed about this the first book and [TS]

  about the series in general are the [TS]

  depictions of the politics like they do [TS]

  a very very good job of spelling out why [TS]

  all these different factions believe the [TS]

  things they do and how they come into [TS]

  conflict and what happens when they [TS]

  bounce off each other and most [TS]

  importantly of all the characters which [TS]

  to me felt like people rather than so [TS]

  many science fiction books I [TS]

  read where the characters especially [TS]

  with this current fascination of science [TS]

  fiction books that takes place so far in [TS]

  the future that people are basically [TS]

  unrecognizable as people and i find that [TS]

  out for have a hard time relating to [TS]

  those whereas these get they talk like [TS]

  people they talk like you know ordinary [TS]

  folks they have motivations that are [TS]

  recognizable it's not all just you know [TS]

  talking about the unity of getting [TS]

  fascinating bogged down in the science [TS]

  fictiony details of it all [TS]

  so i found that to be a really enjoyable [TS]

  experience but Miller is nor I mean he [TS]

  isn't nor detective he just got just [TS]

  with a girl it is he's a recognizable [TS]

  character not only as a as a [TS]

  twentieth-century in fact character [TS]

  trope but also as a character with [TS]

  motivations of his own [TS]

  well I'm Jim Holden is a paladin if you [TS]

  wanted not here's a do-gooder he is I [TS]

  kind of thought of him as like a James [TS]

  Kirk yeah yeah it'll be even more he's [TS]

  even more moral in some ways than Kirk [TS]

  right like he has it really is the key [TS]

  is lawful good you know he's got that [TS]

  whole thing was like I'm just gonna tell [TS]

  everybody everything and i'm going to be [TS]

  like totally painfully good about some [TS]

  things and it does make him a rather [TS]

  simplistic character times but they [TS]

  really dive into that subsequently in [TS]

  terms of how he acts which i find [TS]

  fascinating [TS]

  yeah I was gonna say i really like that [TS]

  it that it is that sort of blend of [TS]

  these very familiar kind of things like [TS]

  Star Trek and war and and or even like [TS]

  James Kirk as if he were in firefly [TS]

  almost writes a little more beaten up [TS]

  right but i like that it that it sort of [TS]

  spun off from there and became its own [TS]

  thing and you know when when space [TS]

  fedora you know I listen to that and you [TS]

  know and at that point I was still [TS]

  burned down on syfy because there's [TS]

  there's a long stretch where I just read [TS]

  so much and I was just tired of it no [TS]

  more sci-fi and so I didn't you know I [TS]

  listen to it to all the podcast and [TS]

  didn't pick up any the box Mikey so when [TS]

  I picked this up i really liked the [TS]

  world-building of it too is it was just [TS]

  fascinating and and it feels lived-in [TS]

  the way a lot of sci-fi doesn't these [TS]

  days you know they've clearly put a lot [TS]

  of thought into what it would be like in [TS]

  this place in this place in this place [TS]

  in this place and how the people are [TS]

  reacting and how they've changed by [TS]

  being so far apart i really enjoy that [TS]

  so you know yes I've read the first one [TS]

  I'm going to keep reading them all right [TS]

  away it its it's funny i read the first [TS]

  one liked it and knew that they were [TS]

  discovered that it was a series and I [TS]

  thought well I'll get back to that and [TS]

  then like this last I don't know three [TS]

  months ago or something I thought oh [TS]

  that this thing got picked up as a [TS]

  series i like that book let's let's uh [TS]

  let's read on [TS]

  well but but if at the time you only had [TS]

  the one book to go on that makes sense [TS]

  whereas i'm coming to it with ya there [TS]

  three more books there's two developers [TS]

  and there's a series i think there was a [TS]

  second book just out when we recorded [TS]

  that episode and ok you know and I [TS]

  actually get one of the perils of being [TS]

  a Huguenot nominee reader is that if [TS]

  booked one of a series gets nominated [TS]

  you wait for the next year's nominees [TS]

  assuming that you'll read it then and I [TS]

  didn't get nominated [TS]

  so I I sort of lost track of it and that [TS]

  little while that's like secrets of the [TS]

  people who who follow these nominees [TS]

  list surround is sometimes you're like [TS]

  yeah it'll get nominated next year [TS]

  like I'm not going to rush out and buy [TS]

  the next mirror grant book because it's [TS]

  just gonna get nominated next year and I [TS]

  can't really decide if the only reason [TS]

  that I'm not buying the experience yeah [TS]

  that's it that's the only race right [TS]

  I you know maybe Erika can give us a [TS]

  letter us her copy i did buy a copy of [TS]

  the second book caliban's war is at the [TS]

  second yeah [TS]

  yes uh but i just sent myself because I [TS]

  mean I like the first book don't get me [TS]

  wrong i think it's it was a lot of fun [TS]

  and I enjoyed it and I certainly would [TS]

  read more but I have a lot of other [TS]

  stuff that ring so it just wasn't on the [TS]

  list and then jason said hey let's do a [TS]

  pocket about it so I took it down and [TS]

  read it and then I immediately read the [TS]

  first one and then everything you read [TS]

  the fourth one and then I was like other [TS]

  sometimes Novelis I read all of them [TS]

  right [TS]

  neuro so this is a this is a big it's a [TS]

  compelling narrative right leg and that [TS]

  is a thing but like I read the second [TS]

  book was on vacation and I you know [TS]

  another thing that this that this series [TS]

  has going for it that I don't get five [TS]

  feel like the last science fiction these [TS]

  days is it's funny I was sitting on a [TS]

  dock reading it and laughing out loud [TS]

  yeah just pretty rare for uh for a book [TS]

  to get me this especially one that is [TS]

  not like a you know humor book like a [TS]

  terry pratchett or something but the [TS]

  dialogue is sharp and very very funny [TS]

  and the characters are drawn in such a [TS]

  way that you find a kind of delightful [TS]

  when they act exactly the way that you [TS]

  expect them to do because that's what [TS]

  you've been you know taught to believe [TS]

  with these characters so I it's it's [TS]

  clever and well done the construction of [TS]

  this knowing that it's a series now I [TS]

  think about this a little bit more than [TS]

  and these guys I mean one of these guys [TS]

  is is George RR Martin's like assistant [TS]

  or something and actually that's funny [TS]

  because I learned something about the [TS]

  about the business I think has some [TS]

  connections and then they did they sell [TS]

  this this TV series III thought to [TS]

  myself while reading the next two books [TS]

  that's really smart this is the way you [TS]

  do a TV series is you have this you have [TS]

  this lived in world you've got these [TS]

  stories that are coming at a at a one [TS]

  book a year pace which is actually [TS]

  perfect and as I read the other books i [TS]

  kept thinking yes this makes sense this [TS]

  could be season to this could be season [TS]

  3 you've got continuing characters [TS]

  you've got new storylines but also [TS]

  continuing character set in the same [TS]

  universe and I you know so i was [TS]

  thinking about that related to Game of [TS]

  Thrones and ended it fits now how much [TS]

  of this is hey was a clever calculation [TS]

  by these guys we will create a [TS]

  science-fiction property that will [TS]

  become a television series and if this [TS]

  that was calculated good job guys [TS]

  because yet you nailed it but it is so I [TS]

  mean it's episodic in a way it is I like [TS]

  that I like that I like that book won [TS]

  all these books are different they have [TS]

  some characters in common they have they [TS]

  have a through line of character you can [TS]

  notice it was a tree lighting plot to [TS]

  rights not direct exactly exactly [TS]

  we'll talk more about this after we blow [TS]

  the spoiler horn but but I like that [TS]

  about it that it's structured in a way [TS]

  where you know book one doesn't end and [TS]

  you're like oh boy I gotta [TS]

  a book too because this is a ripoff [TS]

  notebook each book is a book it tells a [TS]

  story but the characters some of the [TS]

  characters continue this the overall [TS]

  story arc that you start to see in book [TS]

  2 continues and I like that it's a good [TS]

  that's a nice plus they release a book [TS]

  every year instead of like will win the [TS]

  next book 105 years seven years who [TS]

  knows that all like that's it this is [TS]

  like totally how sci-fi novel series [TS]

  should work i think exactly like it is [TS]

  taking notes thanks clearly has a lot of [TS]

  time while George is writing so uh huh [TS]

  that's right ok we're going to fire off [TS]

  the spoiler horn in just a minute but [TS]

  before I do that I want to tell you [TS]

  about our sponsor it is [TS] ly this is the easy [TS]

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  you very much to for teaching [TS]

  me things and for sponsoring me [TS]

  uncomfortable [TS]

  ok time to far-off the spoiler horn if [TS]

  you haven't read these books and you [TS]

  don't want to listen on jump ahead to [TS]

  minute 54 where we will talk about what [TS]

  we're reading and go read these books [TS]

  they're really good [TS]

  I i did the characters so my favorite [TS]

  character in the entire series so far is [TS]

  a narrator from book to who is I'm gonna [TS]

  mispronounce your name but about sir [TS]

  alistair alia yeah I love her [TS]

  alright her she is my favorite character [TS]

  in the entire series she's basically in [TS]

  charge of security for earth although [TS]

  she's got a title as a sub whatever of [TS]

  the United Nations on what under [TS]

  assistant to the Undersecretary of you [TS]

  and she has a foul mouth grandmother a [TS]

  diminutive Indian grandmother who eats [TS]

  what pistachios Haverford out of her [TS]

  mercy [TS]

  so where's will actively working to [TS]

  create character yep and I i think that [TS]

  to me was the moment that i really got [TS]

  sold on this because it took me at you [TS]

  know you come in any book that switches [TS]

  narrators and you know Game of Thrones [TS]

  which we talked about a little bit has [TS]

  the same issue with like okay there's [TS]

  this new person i'm going to be in their [TS]

  head and it might be a little tricky to [TS]

  adjust to it and then you know how you [TS]

  know a few chapters in you find yourself [TS]

  really just enjoying being in these [TS]

  peoples heads I I mean it was definitely [TS]

  departure coming from the first book [TS]

  because you got very used to this [TS]

  flipping back and forth between holding [TS]

  the miller and like all right I've got [TS]

  these two threads and then you need [TS]

  subsequent book I think they get I don't [TS]

  they go like scale necessarily more [TS]

  complicated but like it definitely gets [TS]

  more complicated and more narrators as [TS]

  they go along and it's always a little [TS]

  bit of an adjustment period trying to [TS]

  deal with the new narrators but i often [TS]

  you-know-who part of the way through the [TS]

  book you know you feel like I'm yeah I'm [TS]

  i like these people i'm home i also [TS]

  wonder if one of the reasons i like the [TS]

  second one the first is that the first [TS]

  book so that the first books that the [TS]

  vomit zombies this this this alien [TS]

  whatever-it-is protomolecule weapon they [TS]

  don't know what it is is going out of [TS]

  control and it's rewriting people and [TS]

  turning them into vomit zombies and it's [TS]

  bad and everybody dies and is very bad [TS]

  and I thought well you know are you [TS]

  throwing in here I I didn't love that [TS]

  aspect of it because it felt like it's [TS]

  the least introduce on business in some [TS]

  ways yes a sci-fi novel with zombies he [TS]

  yeh but in the second book it becomes [TS]

  clear that [TS]

  they're really trying to do is sort of [TS]

  have the results of the alien technology [TS]

  be like feel like really different and [TS]

  so you get the aftermath of that attack [TS]

  where our friend the Martian marine is [TS]

  the only survivor and it's this [TS]

  monstrous you know creature that is [TS]

  spawned by the the protomolecule and and [TS]

  you realize that ok they're not really [TS]

  trying to inject a horror element [TS]

  everywhere like they you know they [TS]

  they're very specifically trying to just [TS]

  create a sort of alien scary feel from [TS]

  this stuff but I'll that turned me [TS]

  around a little bit when I went because [TS]

  the first books the use of zombies I'm [TS]

  like yeah okay and it's all about how in [TS]

  book two [TS]

  it's all about how people are turning [TS]

  that to certain ends right into it's [TS]

  less about what the alien protomolecule [TS]

  is doing then how all these different [TS]

  power bases are are trying to react to [TS]

  the fact that this thing exists it turns [TS]

  out book 2 and at the very end of book [TS]

  one that a lot of the badness that's [TS]

  happened is because people have screwed [TS]

  things up and not because there's an [TS]

  alien protomolecule that's doing weird [TS]

  things it is doing weird things but the [TS]

  people are the ones committing crimes [TS]

  are rounded right which I i really liked [TS]

  that too and and I like to pull the [TS]

  politics and book to looking at us are [TS]

  all is a balance of power you know even [TS]

  not just between Earth and Mars and the [TS]

  outer belt but inside earth politics [TS]

  where she's sort of like put in jeopardy [TS]

  at several points by aspects who want [TS]

  who want to blow things up instead of [TS]

  instead of kind of taking care of [TS]

  humanity [TS]

  yeah it's a very recognizable sort of [TS]

  power corrupts you know high-level [TS]

  political machinations you know it's I [TS]

  think again the thing that the resonates [TS]

  for me is you know a lot of these a lot [TS]

  of science fiction books right now are [TS]

  dealing with this question of like well [TS]

  what does it mean to be human like [TS]

  especially in you know as technology [TS]

  progresses you know people focused on [TS]

  this whole idea of the singularity and [TS]

  stuff like that and I think what I [TS]

  really love about these books is that [TS]

  they sort of conform to my belief which [TS]

  is like people are always going to be [TS]

  kind of inescapably people and in all [TS]

  the good and bad that that [TS]

  means you know there they don't change [TS]

  that much we're not that different than [TS]

  we you know then we've been for the last [TS]

  several millennia and I think to me [TS]

  that's what's really interesting about [TS]

  these books is all of these things are [TS]

  recognizable because even if we've you [TS]

  know gotten to other planets and [TS]

  colonize asteroid belts and stuff like [TS]

  that people are still gonna have the [TS]

  same petty power squabble that they've [TS]

  always had and they're going to act and [TS]

  recognizably human ways right right I [TS]

  agree one of the shocking things that [TS]

  happens in book one is that one of our [TS]

  two protagonists does get killed Miller [TS]

  doesn't make it [TS]

  holden holden survives the the [TS]

  idealistic annoying kind of ruins [TS]

  everything by being so honest kind of [TS]

  guy which is which is delightful and [TS]

  they get their spaceship and he's got [TS]

  his girlfriend who's been his first [TS]

  officer all along and that that's really [TS]

  that's a nice thing but i always look [TS]

  preferred Miller to holden and the irony [TS]

  is that holding his and his crew are the [TS]

  ones we follow and Miller Miller guys in [TS]

  the first book but I you know but i [TS]

  still i like i like having that the the [TS]

  guts to say I'm gonna kill off one of my [TS]

  main characters in this book especially [TS]

  since it's a series as it turns out what [TS]

  I just like George erm yeah look at that [TS]

  they learned so many lessons you say i [TS]

  really i really enjoy a lot of the [TS]

  secondary characters and some of them [TS]

  you get very attached to my you know I [TS]

  really my other favorite favorite [TS]

  character is a messy Asher course course [TS]

  and he's just he's just yeah another [TS]

  another great drawn character who could [TS]

  have been very clich├ęd and [TS]

  stereotypical but they sort of embraces [TS]

  it in a way that makes it work you know [TS]

  he starts officer this big block [TS]

  mechanic guy and as the as the series [TS]

  develops you realize well he's also just [TS]

  like a really really exceptionally [TS]

  brutal thong but a lovable one of the [TS]

  heart of gold [TS]

  he's a level sociopath yeah and but one [TS]

  of the one of the novellas is called the [TS]

  turn and it tells his story first to how [TS]

  he goes out into space so sorry I kind [TS]

  of like that i didn't know his story [TS]

  because it made him kind of mysterious [TS]

  because they kind of there are lots of [TS]

  kind of [TS]

  allegiance and remarks throughout the [TS]

  the series but the story later that for [TS]

  you so if you want to know there's a [TS]

  really nice turn seen in the third book [TS]

  where they he's protecting another [TS]

  character and she's you know that [TS]

  they're all in trouble and they're going [TS]

  to be attacked by other people who are [TS]

  coming for them with weapons and it's a [TS]

  serious tense standoff and he she did [TS]

  and she's a minister right and he he he [TS]

  doesn't she doesn't know what to think [TS]

  of him because he is this big kind of [TS]

  brutal guy and they end up actually [TS]

  having some kind of really nice [TS]

  conversation really nice relationship [TS]

  where you know he he basically says i [TS]

  will i will make sure that they don't [TS]

  hurt you and something might happen to [TS]

  me I don't know but I'm going to make [TS]

  sure that your you are safe and [TS]

  protected and that is that is that [TS]

  character in a nutshell right which is [TS]

  he is brutal and violent but you know I [TS]

  don't want to say like with a heart of [TS]

  gold but that's essentially yet he's [TS]

  like he's a good he's he's a brutal [TS]

  violent guy but he's our brutal violent [TS]

  guy he's one of the good guys [TS]

  he has a loyalty he has yeah right you [TS]

  know i see thats man silent mode and [TS]

  Madagascar dexter and and there i mean [TS]

  there are scenes that you know again we [TS]

  find out the spoiler home but there's an [TS]

  i think it's in book two [TS]

  there's a scene where he gets shot like [TS]

  in the head that's a brief sort of scene [TS]

  where I remember reading The Rock like [TS]

  your involuntary gasp be like no don't [TS]

  kill Amos he's great and then of course [TS]

  it turns out like you know he's wearing [TS]

  a helmet you know we got smart because [TS]

  he's smart he's that but like this [TS]

  holster that he's got a whole sort of [TS]

  indestructible or around you're making [TS]

  some ways but not these like you know it [TS]

  doesn't get that crap kicked out of him [TS]

  walked so David how do you want to like [TS]

  pump stick your fingers in your ears and [TS]

  home for a while [TS]

  no I'm i have i've read up on the shape [TS]

  of the Lord so I'm don't know okay so [TS]

  Miller similar dies and and one of the [TS]

  things I really like in book two and i [TS]

  told i told my wife this was about [TS]

  70-percent through I said you know you [TS]

  really series and they move on and even [TS]

  if there's some new characters in common [TS]

  they don't like talk about they don't [TS]

  spend time going [TS]

  like a yeah I remember him while he's [TS]

  dead that's too bad they invited like [TS]

  just move on and you very rarely have [TS]

  people like even and even in Game of [TS]

  Thrones they don't do this they don't do [TS]

  like let's sit and remember how great a [TS]

  guy Ned Stark was right no he's dead [TS]

  we've moved on spoiling for Game of [TS]

  Thrones by the way what are you doing [TS]

  pay attention am I and uh I so i said i [TS]

  said to her i said to Lauren I really [TS]

  like that they keep managing on Miller [TS]

  that bastard you know he did this and I [TS]

  wish Miller we're here to ask in this [TS]

  thing and the whole time I'm thinking [TS]

  that's actually kind of cool i haven't [TS]

  seen a book do that because he's dead [TS]

  and then the very last seen on the very [TS]

  last page of that book Miller appears [TS]

  and and says to hold in ya back [TS]

  fuck what yeah that is well that's yeah [TS]

  that is a great woman moment and I [TS]

  definitely laughed and thomas jane is [TS]

  playing Miller in the series and I keep [TS]

  thinking are they debated the cast him [TS]

  and take a look [TS]

  you're gonna be in season one we're [TS]

  gonna kill you you're going to not be in [TS]

  most of season two but then you're going [TS]

  to be back for the rest here although [TS]

  it's just metres you [TS]

  he seems way too young and way too [TS]

  handsome to play Miller based on like my [TS]

  way out here but it's TV [TS]

  well put a hand on him quite quite [TS]

  honestly and he said he's a he's a [TS]

  belter so he's supposedly got like a big [TS]

  head and all that which you know for TV [TS]

  that's just going to be regular people [TS]

  idea i don't know about you I just cast [TS]

  are our former colleague Dan Miller is [TS]

  Miller honest haha older ladies are like [TS]

  he's gonna have he's gonna get heard [TS]

  I don't see you he's I'd watch that show [TS]

  at the end Miller is his Miller [TS]

  detective Dan Miller so I that nobody [TS]

  who nobody knows Dan except for us but [TS]

  yeah I I cast him i just decided he was [TS]

  gonna pick some cherries were detected [TS]

  business but but he's weak comes back in [TS]

  and that that blew me away and and in [TS]

  the second book we realize that the the [TS]

  protomolecule is doing something [TS]

  interesting on Venus and it you know it [TS]

  becomes clear by the end of that book [TS]

  that we've sort of just gotten in the [TS]

  way of machine a molecular machine that [TS]

  is doing something an alien machine is [TS]

  doing something that we just don't even [TS]

  know what it is and people are officer [TS]

  all again great character the whole book [TS]

  she's basically thinking okay there's [TS]

  two things going on here [TS]

  that I have to balance one is we have [TS]

  lots of politics that could be very [TS]

  important and two is theirs in giant [TS]

  alien machine down under the clouds and [TS]

  Venus that could be building something [TS]

  that will kill us all and I i got think [TS]

  about that a little bit or try not to [TS]

  think about it and i really liked that [TS]

  too that there's that like the stuff we [TS]

  can control as humans and and also the [TS]

  feeling that we may be in deep trouble [TS]

  very much like Game of Thrones actually [TS]

  with the others [TS]

  it's a are the White Walkers if you want [TS]

  you to do me a looming it's like there's [TS]

  a looming threat to all humanity and [TS]

  your humanity still squabbling with [TS]

  within itself [TS]

  yeah like yeah thanks what else at any [TS]

  other any of things about the second [TS]

  book of us are Allah is such a great [TS]

  character that and the enemy and the [TS]

  marine who's my name Bobby paper Bobby [TS]

  those are my two favorite characters so [TS]

  great are also really good yeah I like [TS]

  her too and I was said that they were in [TS]

  the next book that is my second I mean [TS]

  that the second book is my favorite of [TS]

  the series I just I really like I agree [TS]

  with that I i like the other 2i like the [TS]

  rest of them too but i think the second [TS]

  book doesn't particularly stand out to [TS]

  me because I mean it tells the most into [TS]

  the politics aspect and I think that's [TS]

  where this series is at its strongest is [TS]

  what it's doing sort of the political [TS]

  intrigue thing [TS]

  yeah I'll ok so the third book is [TS]

  Abaddon is gate which I which are also i [TS]

  mean i like all these books this one's [TS]

  got a different feeling because this is [TS]

  Jim Holden is now being like haunted by [TS]

  by Miller and what we realize is that [TS]

  that this what is it like blue firefly [TS]

  glow which is like the hint of the [TS]

  protomolecule that that whatever the [TS]

  alien creature is or alien machine that [TS]

  is that it has has gone down to Venus [TS]

  and built this ring and set it outside [TS]

  of Neptune's orbit or Uranus or but I [TS]

  guess is a trying to communicate with [TS]

  him for some reason except through [TS]

  Miller and and you don't really know [TS]

  whether Holden is just totally crazy I [TS]

  mean you get the sense that he come on [TS]

  he's not really crazy the blue glow [TS]

  means something there's aliens at work [TS]

  here but it holds on enough [TS]

  just to make you wonder if maybe he's [TS]

  just actually crazy [TS]

  I it is a complicated situation and this [TS]

  is it gets interesting because you know [TS]

  as you see the development of this piece [TS]

  of alien machinery and it becomes clear [TS]

  that the the whole this is the whole [TS]

  purpose is like the endgame in some ways [TS]

  now at the end I middle game of the [TS]

  protomolecule is is building something [TS]

  which turns out to be getting as the [TS]

  book's title might suggest yeah it turns [TS]

  out to be this this ring that goes into [TS]

  somewhere else and it's like a Stargate [TS]

  basically and where it goes is to like [TS]

  the lobby of the galaxy which is a whole [TS]

  bunch of rings all of them off [TS]

  strangely and a space station which will [TS]

  end and that's so so much of this book [TS]

  is surprisingly we talk about books in [TS]

  the same series with the same characters [TS]

  feeling totally different [TS]

  Abaddon's gate it is small in the way [TS]

  that uh that the previous book caliban's [TS]

  war is big cabins words about ships [TS]

  going into and out of the inner and [TS]

  outer solar system and transferring [TS]

  people from here there and like big like [TS]

  chess moves on a solar system scale [TS]

  heaven's gate is about people in close [TS]

  quarters because in the gate lobby area [TS]

  there's a speed limit you can't go very [TS]

  fast [TS]

  everybody is sort of like limited with [TS]

  what they can do a lot of it takes place [TS]

  on one giant but one spaceship and it's [TS]

  about people in corridors fighting room [TS]

  to room and then Jim Holden separately [TS]

  goes to the space station and has like [TS]

  his own personal end of 2001 moment for [TS]

  an extended period of time where he's [TS]

  trying to communicate with the alien [TS]

  whatever it is and yet this is the book [TS]

  that I thought it is kind of it is a [TS]

  smaller story but it is the book that [TS]

  transforms into a space opera because [TS]

  now they have giant alien artifact ya [TS]

  doing who-knows-what and there you know [TS]

  trying to figure out this plus dealing [TS]

  with all the squabbling because they [TS]

  still don't stop squabbling even though [TS]

  they you know they go through this don't [TS]

  know where they are they go through this [TS]

  ring everybody they don't want to go [TS]

  through the ring but the beginning you [TS]

  a little kid stupidly did ruin video and [TS]

  ruins it creates his own spaceship but [TS]

  slingshots himself through and then [TS]

  everybody all hell breaks loose [TS]

  yeah i thought was fascinating how it [TS]

  kind of turned the tone is the same but [TS]

  the the setting and kind of it just [TS]

  expands the setting and this this is the [TS]

  book where you're like oh IC turns out [TS]

  now that we're in book 3 what we've [TS]

  actually been looking at is the setup [TS]

  for Humanity being able to have access [TS]

  to this wider wider universe but wider [TS]

  set of galaxies and Eric hour or more [TS]

  solar systems within our galaxy because [TS]

  you know obviously they're going to be [TS]

  able to turn on these rings and there's [TS]

  a new moment where we're holding kind of [TS]

  communes with the intelligence that runs [TS]

  which is it is never said to be an alien [TS]

  it's like a machine intelligence that [TS]

  that has been the caretaker of the space [TS]

  station and this this transfer point [TS]

  this this Lobby and it's basically ATM [TS]

  in the galaxies lobby and you playback [TS]

  what's happened and that's that [TS]

  I mean talk about space off right that's [TS]

  the moment of grand galaxy-spanning [TS]

  civilization built this entire thing and [TS]

  then there's a mysterious other force [TS]

  that attacks it and it you know that [TS]

  civilization falls and they close off [TS]

  all the gates and that's just sort of [TS]

  that tidbit they're like wow what [TS]

  happened we're late to the party here [TS]

  that the z3 there's any even more [TS]

  ominous threat that killed off the [TS]

  ominous threat yes desolation which is a [TS]

  nice moment I mean it reminded me of [TS]

  some of the stuff and if anybody's [TS]

  played the game mass effect has a has [TS]

  sort of a similar galaxy-spanning you [TS]

  know threat approach in there and I [TS]

  really dug that I dug that the I think [TS]

  it's incredibly clever the way they came [TS]

  up with how this you know how this [TS]

  machine deals with threats are things [TS]

  that perceives as threats for example [TS]

  this whole deal with like when you're [TS]

  inside the gate in the lobby and it's [TS]

  just decides not nothing can move faster [TS]

  than like 30 miles an hour [TS]

  yeah and all the sudden everything that [TS]

  is moving faster and all that stuff they [TS]

  all those ships are moving faster [TS]

  because that [TS]

  it's space that's one does just grind to [TS]

  a halt and it really like kills people [TS]

  and like but like not in a way that's [TS]

  malicious just in a way that's like oh [TS]

  yeah you are all going too fast now and [TS]

  I thought that the changing of physics [TS]

  and stuff like that as a defense [TS]

  mechanism i thought was incredibly [TS]

  clever and I i really enjoyed that I [TS]

  enjoyed that even you know I sort of to [TS]

  get back to the point about the [TS]

  characters acting very human even the [TS]

  the antagonists in that book are acting [TS]

  in a way that is somewhat believable you [TS]

  know out of fear [TS]

  essentially what is your there's a lot [TS]

  of antagonism from all of many of these [TS]

  books where the bad guys are essentially [TS]

  people who just have a difference of [TS]

  opinion there's a classic a classic like [TS]

  wanting to be wanting to be worldly or [TS]

  wanting to turn in on yourself and be [TS]

  isolationist in that moment that happens [TS]

  where it's like we've been we've been [TS]

  shown the possibility of the galaxy all [TS]

  these gates that maybe we could open and [TS]

  travel elsewhere and some people are [TS]

  like oh cool let's do that and other [TS]

  people like no no burn it with fire run [TS]

  get out get out and that you know that's [TS]

  because they're both motivated by the [TS]

  same set of I mean the same set of data [TS]

  is there and some of them are motivated [TS]

  in a very different way than others [TS]

  unless you have some of the characters [TS]

  are interested about you know going [TS]

  through others are worried more about [TS]

  what can come through [TS]

  yes and I got that is your practical [TS]

  practical concerns you know it'sit's but [TS]

  then holding just opens them anyway so I [TS]

  guess this is what he that's what he [TS]

  does but it's interesting because it's [TS]

  never always there's a lot of here both [TS]

  other characters and never to the book [TS]

  that often considers maybe that's not [TS]

  actually the best approach [TS]

  alright in particular you know like a [TS]

  Vassar Allah has a whole thing with him [TS]

  where it's just like I just can't tell [TS]

  everybody everything how this is your [TS]

  really really don't and that's one of my [TS]

  favorite moments all the books which is [TS]

  just like you're an idiot [TS]

  yep but you know and and bad stuff [TS]

  happens often when he makes the music he [TS]

  starts like three wars within the first [TS]

  half [TS]

  yeah yeah he's yeah at times he reminds [TS]

  me of Captain Kirk at times he reminds [TS]

  me of Malcolm Reynolds from from firefly [TS]

  where he's yeah he's a he's a good guy [TS]

  but uh sometimes he does stuff it's like [TS]

  was good why doing that he's good to the [TS]

  point of naivete almost except he is [TS]

  kind of savvy you know like there are [TS]

  generally indications that he is he's [TS]

  smart and knows you know what he's doing [TS]

  but at the same time he's a blunt [TS]

  instrument right like yeah that's he has [TS]

  kind of you know everything looks like a [TS]

  nail to him and I think I think maybe [TS]

  philosophically he also believes that [TS]

  that everything is a nail in the end [TS]

  yeah and then and then it so it's like [TS]

  he realizes that it's messy but he [TS]

  doesn't really believe that it's it's [TS]

  not the right thing to do even if it's [TS]

  even if it's messy there there is a nice [TS]

  moment and i believe it's in is it in in [TS]

  caliban's war where yes caliban's war [TS]

  because he starts to internalise a lot [TS]

  of the same sort of cynicism and [TS]

  negativity that Miller is paused and his [TS]

  crew really gets turned off and his his [TS]

  girlfriend basically kicked him out of [TS]

  their cabin and leaves the ship and he [TS]

  has to do some reassessment of who he is [TS]

  and and how he's acting because they're [TS]

  basically like hey you're no longer [TS]

  acting like that idealistic jackass that [TS]

  we love [TS]

  now you're just a jackass so that off [TS]

  that it like you're not the guy that [TS]

  shoots everybody you're the one that [TS]

  talks everybody out of shooting [TS]

  yeah yeah and then Miller appears [TS]

  intervention just to get him but uh I i [TS]

  liked you know not only do i like that [TS]

  that scope of of the space opera that's [TS]

  introduced inhabitants cape that this is [TS]

  this galaxy spanning civilization and [TS]

  there's a thread and they're all these [TS]

  gates and humanity has a chance to [TS]

  explore further because that one of the [TS]

  subplots of all three books is that the [TS]

  Mormons have tried to build this big [TS]

  spaceship and they're going to set it on [TS]

  my unit to another star system and can [TS]

  take generations for it to get there and [TS]

  it doesn't really work out and they [TS]

  repurpose the spaceship a few times but [TS]

  you know there's that is setting up like [TS]

  well forget [TS]

  having two other other solar systems [TS]

  that trope of sci-fi is not going to be [TS]

  in this but wait maybe it is more i like [TS]

  that and like so i like how weird the [TS]

  space stations i really felt like the [TS]

  the alien machinery once you are you [TS]

  know once holdings able to talk to it i [TS]

  love how weird alien it is and how it's [TS]

  not even like the machinery like like [TS]

  Miller is like the interface to the [TS]

  machinery trying to it's just it's [TS]

  fascinating because I I like that it's [TS]

  complicated and weird because it should [TS]

  be like when you see sci-fi movies where [TS]

  you know you can just take out you take [TS]

  your powerbook and hack into the alien [TS]

  computer you roll your eyes and that [TS]

  this is like no no la if we met aliens [TS]

  or alien systems it would be really [TS]

  strange and inhabit escape [TS]

  it's really strange it is and 2001 [TS]

  strange just like bizarre stuff [TS]

  yeah yeah I enjoyed that it's it's a li [TS]

  it's not just like a palette swap or [TS]

  it's like oh they're basically people [TS]

  but with like different colored you know [TS]

  different numbers of limbs or a [TS]

  different color do have three eyes [TS]

  yeah exactly though I mean without [TS]

  really thinking about the consequences [TS]

  thereof this you know this seems [TS]

  actually thought out in like there's [TS]

  there's a reason behind this whole [TS]

  civilization or you and we don't even [TS]

  you know that's the fascinating thing is [TS]

  like if you asked like water water what [TS]

  do the aliens from these books look like [TS]

  we never see one now all dead all that [TS]

  this is just the systems they built that [TS]

  that continue on without them like the [TS]

  woman is like the aqueducts in the roads [TS]

  in the Romans had all died off [TS]

  yeah so the next book is a siebel burn [TS]

  which i've only read the first like five [TS]

  chapters of so how is it it is it is as [TS]

  distinct from you you mean is adjusting [TS]

  for the rest of them as they all are [TS]

  right it's it's a very different book [TS]

  just to set up the premise you know now [TS]

  that these gates are open people have [TS]

  basically gone through and started [TS]

  settling in particular one planet that [TS]

  they that seems to be habitable by [TS]

  humans and there is a political dispute [TS]

  over it in terms of there are squatters [TS]

  who basically you know [TS]

  internship and flew out there before [TS]

  anybody else could get there but there's [TS]

  also a company that's like a mining [TS]

  company that owned theoretically owns [TS]

  the rights to that planet or has you [TS]

  know a deal with the UN 2m basically [TS]

  colonize and resource farming the planet [TS]

  right so there's some conflict there and [TS]

  we meet a couple new uh Brittany [TS]

  narrators including a couple of whom who [TS]

  have appeared previously in the series [TS]

  as minor character i believe there are [TS]

  two in that book who are three who have [TS]

  already met in the series and there's [TS]

  some interesting fallout from stuff [TS]

  that's happened in the series already [TS]

  both for those characters and for some [TS]

  of the other characters but it's a very [TS]

  you know I it's interesting because [TS]

  looking at it without giving too much [TS]

  way for those of our panelists who [TS]

  haven't read it thanks we get into the [TS]

  same situation of being like you know [TS]

  that happens get dresses like well as [TS]

  people should we really just be jumping [TS]

  onto these brand new planets and [TS]

  settling them like should we check that [TS]

  out first or should we just like let's [TS]

  just go because they had a planet has [TS]

  got like tunnels and and structures and [TS]

  things that were left by whoever lived [TS]

  there before [TS]

  whatever happened to the gates and [TS]

  everything happened it's not like I mean [TS]

  and literally people are just like hey [TS]

  but there's lithium here let's mine it [TS]

  sneaky ass a dead civilization and alien [TS]

  creatures and are you really thinking [TS]

  this through it but they're in and [TS]

  they're really excited about the fact [TS]

  that there is another planet because a [TS]

  lot of the tension earlier on in the [TS]

  series comes from the fact that you have [TS]

  these two you essentially have your [TS]

  Arthur's you're Martians and your [TS]

  belters and the fact that both the [TS]

  Martians and the belters grew up in [TS]

  different gravitational situations which [TS]

  leads to some physiological differences [TS]

  right there is like a racial divide [TS]

  yeah and so having another planet turns [TS]

  out to be an interesting tension [TS]

  political tension factor because it's [TS]

  like oh well now you know how does that [TS]

  factor into all these pre-existing [TS]

  divides in terms of how we've [TS]

  categorized people thus far and the [TS]

  belters are the ones who do the Wildcat [TS]

  colony on this plan [TS]

  and it's also funny because on one level [TS]

  they're trying to ban together as [TS]

  belters on another level if if they [TS]

  colonize a planet [TS]

  they're not there they're children are [TS]

  not going to be belters anymore either [TS]

  going to look like earth people and and [TS]

  Mars people because they're grown and [TS]

  gravity [TS]

  yeah so the I know they're gonna they're [TS]

  gonna be abandoning they may feel like [TS]

  they're like supporting their people but [TS]

  they're actually going to be abandoning [TS]

  their life entirely by doing that so [TS]

  that's fascinating wrinkle to like we're [TS]

  and we thought we were out of real [TS]

  estate so we were colonizing out here [TS]

  and now it turns out there's unlimited [TS]

  real estate so what happens next right [TS]

  and and the questions of just like how [TS]

  you know human beings being naturally [TS]

  tribal to a certain extent like how do [TS]

  you draw those line right terms of like [TS]

  your identity when it comes to a new [TS]

  planet when it's a and somehow there's [TS]

  always an element of us versus them and [TS]

  that comes into play in terms of [TS]

  settling this new planet between these [TS]

  these conflicting parties [TS]

  the reviews are relative said also that [TS]

  the this feels like sort of part one of [TS]

  the next act of this series that you [TS]

  have partly important that the first act [TS]

  was opening the gates essentially and [TS]

  this is this is part this is a [TS]

  transitional book that setting up this [TS]

  next phase of the storyline and [TS]

  apparently they've signed deal where [TS]

  they're gonna be like five more of these [TS]

  at least so yeah well i was fascinated [TS]

  because I'm you know having now finish [TS]

  that book and and thought about you know [TS]

  sort of how different all of these books [TS]

  are from each other i'm sort of just [TS]

  really intrigued to see what the next [TS]

  book is because even if you're setting [TS]

  up a new Act it feels like the pattern [TS]

  is that all of these books are so [TS]

  different from the other books yeah and [TS]

  so the kind of the way this leaves off [TS]

  in some ways because all the books seem [TS]

  to end with a certain amount of epilogue [TS]

  that has like hints of where we're going [TS]

  next and the hints that they started [TS]

  dropping this book suggests well we're [TS]

  going we're not going to like [TS]

  necessarily directly follow up on the [TS]

  stuff here but it's going to have an [TS]

  impact on what we're looking at next in [TS]

  the whole like state of play for all of [TS]

  these factions right anything else [TS]

  anybody want to say about the series [TS]

  other than we like it you should you [TS]

  should you should read it I think before [TS]

  the TV show comes on maybe you should [TS]

  you should read it there fun it is it is [TS]

  one of the best science fiction series I [TS]

  feel that I've read in years and [TS]

  certainly one of the best i think [TS]

  probably the best space opera I've read [TS]

  since the Vorkosigan saga which is my [TS]

  favorite space of plateau I feel I i'm [TS]

  highly enjoyed it I I sort of burned [TS]

  through these and I've really just I've [TS]

  immersed myself in them and I haven't [TS]

  found a book series that I've just [TS]

  fallen into so completely as this in a [TS]

  very long time so it was it was a [TS]

  delightful read my house recommend it [TS]

  oh I was gonna say if if I were in deep [TS]

  in rehearsing a show right now I [TS]

  probably would have pounded right [TS]

  through the second and third one hand [TS]

  because yeah it just it's fun it's fun [TS]

  there's no doubt about it Scott do you [TS]

  what your feelings are your feelings I [TS]

  have no feelings i enjoyed reading i [TS]

  think the phone i'll read the next one [TS]

  when it comes out in like whatever [TS]

  extremely they turn them out every month [TS]

  or something [TS]

  yeah it's craziness and I'm surprised [TS]

  how good they are given their rapid [TS]

  development i I'm intrigued [TS]

  I wonder how they do this how they there [TS]

  two guys that are writing these and I [TS]

  just wonder what their processes like [TS]

  maybe Daniel Abraham and ty Franck are [TS]

  themselves pen names each representing [TS]

  two people and then they have two people [TS]

  and they have two people and there's [TS]

  actually like a hundred and twenty-eight [TS]

  people who read these books [TS]

  crowdsourcing it could be [TS]

  it's amazing just google docs you set up [TS]

  a google doc you share with some friends [TS]

  you got a novel we got to love you [TS]

  haven't got a TV deal just like that [TS]

  doing this all the wrong way [TS]

  yeah seriously but there's a lot of fun [TS]

  i like them i think that they feel [TS]

  modern and rooted in our current time [TS]

  like that was talking about how he's [TS]

  kind of burnt out with this this post [TS]

  human thing that same sci-fi authors are [TS]

  going because charles stross like that [TS]

  charles stross book we read with the [TS]

  name of money and the mermaid right I [TS]

  couldn't finish it I couldn't have [TS]

  started reading and i got like 50 pages [TS]

  and i'm like a just i don't i don't care [TS]

  about these people representing people [TS]

  they're like robots that I don't know [TS]

  whether it's a 2312 or whatever the heck [TS]

  that was all I almost twenty-three [TS]

  twelve and get that either [TS]

  then you probably know how fast money [TS]

  and Slow Money work now [TS]

  hold on let me check really quick nope [TS]

  okay with that [TS]

  yeah I'm good I can tell you later day [TS]

  yeah okay thank you so much five guys in [TS]

  the textbook LOL i've got a webinar on [TS]

  it but yeah but a lot of fun there they [TS]

  they certainly feel like if current [TS]

  people were transported to the future [TS]

  and what would happen and i don't mean [TS]

  that in a bad way [TS]

  you know like damn samey characters act [TS]

  like you think they would and they feel [TS]

  like people which is a high compliment [TS]

  and the aliens are weird and cool stuff [TS]

  happens [TS]

  yeah yeah i like that i mean again re in [TS]

  reality you know it 200 years in the [TS]

  future people will probably behave [TS]

  there'll be things about human nature [TS]

  will be the same but there'll be a lot [TS]

  of trap trappings will be very different [TS]

  and horrifying it's the it's that damn [TS]

  kids thing taken like times a hundred [TS]

  but um and that can be interesting [TS]

  speculation but on another level i also [TS]

  enjoy science fiction where the [TS]

  characters feel human in a strange [TS]

  situation but recognizably human [TS]

  behaving the same way and maybe you know [TS]

  saying some things about how you know [TS]

  what human nature is and how we behave [TS]

  today and I i like that and and I i'm [TS]

  with you guys [TS]

  posthuman complications are interesting [TS]

  but it was nice to read something where [TS]

  I felt like I was can I was being a [TS]

  watching a movie or TV show in my head [TS]

  what he's really good well-drawn [TS]

  characters who were recognizable to me [TS]

  as people fun is underfunded under [TS]

  rabies [TS]

  yeah and having read the first one not [TS]

  knowing anything about you know this [TS]

  obviously this was before the TV series [TS]

  but once I heard about the TV deal i was [TS]

  like oh that makes perfect sense just [TS]

  reading the first one was like yeah I [TS]

  can totally see this is a TV show and [TS]

  reading the other three it even have [TS]

  hammers at home even more [TS]

  yeah yeah season 4 on a planet actually [TS]

  actually in terms of TV construction i [TS]

  was also thinking that one of the [TS]

  brilliant things about this is that they [TS]

  it is not like a book of space battles [TS]

  right it's a lot of conversations and [TS]

  people in enclosed spaces whether it's [TS]

  on earth or on a space station or on a [TS]

  spaceship having character moments and [TS]

  punctuated by exciting space things but [TS]

  uh [TS]

  but also it just it seemed eminently sh [TS]

  fillable let that boy [TS]

  kind of reminds me of it makes me think [TS]

  of the wire honestly it's like every [TS]

  season has a slightly different [TS]

  yes with a slightly different set of [TS]

  characters some characters carryover [TS]

  between the seasons but they're each [TS]

  sort of distinct and tell their own [TS]

  story within themselves right and it all [TS]

  connects in a larger City and we find [TS]

  out emphasis from Baltimore ya sister [TS]

  multiple through that's amazing [TS]

  alright well so there it is the expanse [TS]

  if you're still listening because you [TS]

  don't care about spreading horns go read [TS]

  it i am already mall ball so novellas to [TS]

  their kind of so now the i will seek [TS]

  those out after i'm done with the fourth [TS]

  book was gonna say one of the things I [TS]

  really like about it is that it is large [TS]

  enough to also be able to have these [TS]

  novellas with smaller stories and focus [TS]

  on characters that might not be you know [TS]

  that might not get a giant part of one [TS]

  of the books but you can still meet [TS]

  again fitting in that whole television [TS]

  episodic thing you know this is like a [TS]

  special episode in the middle of the [TS]

  season [TS]

  yeah that's true and so one of the [TS]

  novellas I tell him a story one tells [TS]

  Fred Johnson story and then the third [TS]

  one tells the story of Bobby's cousin [TS]

  which is kinda weird but it's fun [TS]

  Stephen Draper who shows that me does he [TS]

  shows up in the prologue a book i look [TS]

  for ya so his story is told nice alright [TS]

  now let's move on and play that game [TS]

  that we've been playing since episode [TS]

  number one which is what are you reading [TS]

  where we get to talk about some books [TS]

  that we've been reading lately that we [TS]

  would like to recommend ideally [TS]

  recommend or maybe warn people away from [TS]

  fine that works too [TS]

  dan what are you reading she's like to [TS]

  finish this book white guy you're [TS]

  reading my experience you say [TS]

  tell us about that it's like that seems [TS]

  like cheating yeah I don't know what to [TS]

  read next I had a couple things on my [TS]

  list and I had a few things on sort of [TS]

  my mine bedside table that I'd had [TS]

  stacked out before your reading [TS]

  experience where you reading anything to [TS]

  do anything good the last like six [TS]

  months and [TS]

  well what the hell that I read before [TS]

  you think about it will come back to you [TS]

  David are you ready [TS]

  what have you been reading while the [TS]

  other book i have a book market right [TS]

  now is I haven't gotten a tie-in novel [TS]

  and I don't know how long but they just [TS]

  came out with a a doctor who novel about [TS]

  the war doctor and I thought okay I'm [TS]

  curious and it's it's called engines of [TS]

  war by George man with two ends and it's [TS]

  it's kind of interesting you know you [TS]

  can you can really see very well here [TS]

  John Hurt doing this line so I think [TS]

  he's really caught the character and I [TS]

  took a break from it to go into [TS]

  Leviathan wakes so I'm kind of curious [TS]

  to see how it wraps on but I'm liking it [TS]

  so far [TS]

  all right now I know you love tie-in [TS]

  novels too well the eye from your eyes [TS]

  for her earliest i have it [TS]

  I've curved by habit but yes I used to [TS]

  have tons of channels i still have a few [TS]

  all right Scott what what have you been [TS]

  reading lately that you recommend i get [TS]

  so many books that i read because you [TS]

  tell me to read them [TS]

  so what tell me what to read scott well [TS]

  as i was reading the expense i tweeted [TS]

  about this book earlier today actually [TS]

  it made me think of this series the [TS]

  paradox trilogy that i read that's by [TS]

  Rachel bak i read it sometime early this [TS]

  year three books obviously because [TS]

  trilogy fortunes pawn honors night and [TS]

  heavens queen and luckily for me I [TS]

  started reading it and they decided I [TS]

  guess they have these backlog because [TS]

  they came out a one month at a time so [TS]

  it was very convenient for me because i [TS]

  started reading it [TS]

  well the first one came out and then I [TS]

  had to wait a month for the second one [TS]

  and the third one and these are right [TS]

  from the beginning space opera it's a a [TS]

  woman is the the main character and [TS]

  she's kind of like this power arm pilot [TS]

  and she gets mixed up power armor i [TS]

  should say no power that beard highly [TS]

  specific skills but she gets mixed up in [TS]

  this crazy like a psychic monster thing [TS]

  that's happening in a secret society [TS]

  that's protecting the universe [TS]

  to it's a very interesting book and it's [TS]

  always nice to read the sign switching [TS]

  book that has a female lead [TS]

  so check those out are the first ones to [TS]

  dollars [TS]

  Jason I can answer your question now a [TS]

  damn what are you reading [TS]

  fortunately I've been cataloging my my [TS]

  books this year and I just remembered [TS]

  that I don't like that reads page 0 but [TS]

  normal so ironically enough the book i [TS]

  read directly before Leviathan wakes [TS]

  which sort of ease me into it was a star [TS]

  wars book but it was written by James sa [TS]

  Corey oh yeah I'm honor among thieves [TS]

  which is a han Solo book that takes [TS]

  place after star after a new hope it was [TS]

  okay i wouldn't say it was great but it [TS]

  was in good enough that it made me check [TS]

  out what else was under the name James [TS]

  sa Corey and I was like oh I think Scott [TS]

  like that book i should read it directly [TS]

  before that I read another actually a [TS]

  really good book that i will recommend [TS]

  called hot led Coldiron by an author [TS]

  named marimar Mel [TS]

  normal I don't know but it is a sort of [TS]

  urban fantasy book set in 1930s Chicago [TS]

  following API named Mick Oberon who is [TS]

  actually from who is actually a ferry [TS]

  from the buffet [TS]

  it has a little bit of intrigue fantasy [TS]

  intrigued but also mobsters and yeah a [TS]

  little bit more angle to it I thought it [TS]

  was quite good [TS]

  very funny well written i believe there [TS]

  are more following books coming out in [TS]

  that series and i would recommend it [TS]

  Jason what are you reading oh thank you [TS]

  for asking Scott that's very kind of you [TS]

  I we're going to do a book club in a few [TS]

  weeks about this i I've read some urban [TS]

  fantasy sort of siren lung London [TS]

  falling by paul cornell and i bought the [TS]

  sequel but i haven't read it yet and I [TS]

  read the latest been an individual not [TS]

  the latest i read the next Peter Grant [TS]

  book moon over soho those are series the [TS]

  intervention paul cornell both Doctor [TS]

  Who writers both now writing urban [TS]

  fantasy about law enforcement with magic [TS]

  in London so lots of similarities lots [TS]

  of differences but both could really [TS]

  good [TS]

  dan I know you've been you've been [TS]

  reading the peter grant i have i think i [TS]

  am up to date on it [TS]

  yeah I think you're right there's one [TS]

  come i think there's one coming out this [TS]

  fall though I think I just like four of [TS]

  them or five hours i read for and I [TS]

  think the right one is coming out this [TS]

  fall [TS]

  yeah so I read over the second it was [TS]

  really good i really like to have [TS]

  enjoyed all of river when I mean yeah [TS]

  they're quick reads and there's some [TS]

  more interesting stuff that again as it [TS]

  goes a lot of things get a little more [TS]

  complex and there was a there was a [TS]

  genuine moment when the last books when [TS]

  I was like what is going on yeah well [TS]

  it's funny I the baronage books there's [TS]

  a basically magic something happened and [TS]

  now it's almost nobody who can do magic [TS]

  and then this this young the young [TS]

  detective are young police officer ends [TS]

  up meeting this old white guy he's a [TS]

  young black police officer old white guy [TS]

  who knows magic and sort of takes him [TS]

  under his wing and explains to him that [TS]

  he's gonna maybe be a magician and it [TS]

  you know it's it's pretty cool [TS]

  london falling it's sort of like there's [TS]

  a there's a good team of people in the [TS]

  police who are investigating a crime and [TS]

  through an accident they basically are [TS]

  granted special magical sight and so [TS]

  they they are then basically told okay [TS]

  well I guess you're the magic cops but [TS]

  they're very similar very similar in [TS]

  both [TS]

  both [TS]

  really good they're both really good so [TS]

  paul cornell and Ben Aaron a bitch i [TS]

  read sherry priests book dreadknot which [TS]

  is the sequel to Boneshaker which we [TS]

  talked about in like episode 1 she's [TS]

  gonna that I've been taking that series [TS]

  slow but it's it's a it's called a [TS]

  clockwork century series it's a [TS]

  steampunk there's Evelyn's to answer the [TS]

  age-old question are there Zeppelin's [TS]

  their resemblance there like hijacked [TS]

  Confederate Zeppelin's it's an old [TS]

  history where the Confederate war or the [TS]

  the civil war rages for like 40 years [TS]

  and they're zombies in seattle and [TS]

  there's there's little cross-linked [TS]

  characters and ever i go i just am [TS]

  trying to stretch those out but every [TS]

  time I read one I I go wow these are [TS]

  really great so Sheree priests clockwork [TS]

  century i read my real children by John [TS]

  Walton I know it's got you read that I [TS]

  didn't really like it I really loved it [TS]

  i thought it was fantastic it is not [TS]

  quite science fiction except in the idea [TS]

  that there's kind of a split where a [TS]

  woman has to make a decision and then [TS]

  she leads to lives and we see both of [TS]

  both of the lives of based on that [TS]

  decision and the very end she sort of [TS]

  like the waveform collapses and she's [TS]

  remembering she's very old and she's got [TS]

  two sets of memories but really it's not [TS]

  super science fiction but it's it and [TS]

  it's very different from most books [TS]

  because she's he has to tell like to [TS]

  complete life stories so there's a lot [TS]

  of like scenes and then a lot of summary [TS]

  of things that happen in this woman's [TS]

  life in these two timelines man is good [TS]

  it's really good about your Walton so i [TS]

  also finally red tooth and claw by John [TS]

  Walton which scott recommended this is [TS]

  the most this is the book where I'm all [TS]

  the characters are dragons and they all [TS]

  wear sound like Jane Austen yeah they [TS]

  wear that hat say anywhere have you [TS]

  yes ok i remember this dragons wear hats [TS]

  they do it's very serious and I i [TS]

  started I had on my kindle for like a [TS]

  year and like dragons and I don't know [TS]

  and I finally read it and steal my god [TS]

  it's great it really is great it is a [TS]

  Jane Austen novel it's ok it's like a [TS]

  comedy of manners and about the Dragons [TS]

  yeah and every now and then when you [TS]

  think you best start to think of them as [TS]

  people then my Dragon will like each [TS]

  another dragon ya and you'll be like [TS]

  alright dragon gotta drink [TS]

  it's it's it sounds ridiculous and it is [TS]

  ridiculous and yet you know what it is [TS]

  fantastic and very and very fun because [TS]

  it is in that style of coincidences and [TS]

  connections and you can see how the plot [TS]

  is going to connect together and have a [TS]

  an amusing result in the end this couple [TS]

  is are they going to come together or [TS]

  not and all of that except they're all [TS]

  dragons and they are eating each other [TS]

  it's it's downloading to my kindle yeah [TS]

  it's a bit kind of the other book that [TS]

  i've been reading lately and I feel like [TS]

  I'm i can justify this because I'm I'm [TS]

  currently unemployed yeah my own book [TS]

  ok sure residents real cold resurrection [TS]

  man damn it doesn't currently have a [TS]

  title [TS]

  ok a lot of change everything I've [TS]

  worked on by this time is dead body if [TS]

  you send me a check scotch tonight [TS]

  copy of this book exclusive copy of this [TS]

  book [TS]

  whoo it's coming along it's right when [TS]

  I've only been working out for five [TS]

  years [TS]

  pixel pretty sure we'll be done any day [TS]

  and maybe this is the year when when you [TS]

  and I finally come out with her books [TS]

  now that we did it's just what I do this [TS]

  is what I'm literally spending all of my [TS]

  time on right now that is not involve a [TS]

  podcast alright i will i read i look [TS]

  forward to seeing her totally different [TS]

  it is from the first draft that i read i [TS]

  think you'll enjoy it alright my god i [TS]

  hope so i read while i was on vacation i [TS]

  read gone girl which is you know I [TS]

  bestseller home [TS]

  it's really good movie yeah it's gonna [TS]

  be heavy it's a really good book Gillian [TS]

  Gillian Flynn who once interviewed me [TS]

  for five minutes for Entertainment [TS]

  Weekly that's my claim to fame that's my [TS]

  blending it shouldn't be about TV dot [TS]

  org for like a 200-word article in [TS]

  entertainment weekly and now she's at [TS]

  best only medalist but it's a it's a [TS]

  really good book really good yeah I I [TS]

  without their twists and they're very [TS]

  interesting characters and it's it's [TS]

  maybe not the book you should choose to [TS]

  read on your vacation for your 20th [TS]

  wedding anniversary has not romantic in [TS]

  any way but it is really great so man [TS]

  don't run away i read a world of trouble [TS]

  which is the third [TS]

  and final book in the last policeman [TS]

  trilogy [TS]

  uh-huh which is the the trilogy set [TS]

  where an asteroid is a going to hit the [TS]

  earth and this detective everyone's kind [TS]

  of given up on their lives because the [TS]

  plants can be destroyed but this one [TS]

  detective is looking for stuff we might [TS]

  we might talk about that sometime to [TS]

  lisa has been agitating because Lisa [TS]

  loves it when the earth is destroyed [TS]

  home and you know I was worried when i [TS]

  was reading the last book there's gonna [TS]

  be some kind of compound like oh no the [TS]

  asteroid misses a but I was not despite [TS]

  ya know it oh well now I don't have to [TS]

  read advanced spoiler [TS]

  yeah whoops being the only other book [TS]

  I've been reading the last month or so [TS]

  has been a record books for research [TS]

  bourbon a history of the Americans a [TS]

  trap by Dane little bridge that's a fake [TS]

  man that's like just steal a total [TS]

  effect seriously jack but yes it's a [TS]

  very entertaining look at the history of [TS]

  bourbon and why it's focused in Kentucky [TS]

  and now you know the stuff so its [TS]

  research for script for something else [TS]

  but not for the radio theatre [TS]

  no but I'm sure details will be sure to [TS]

  that of course that's just how it works [TS]

  after we get our episode about 77 1776 [TS]

  the musical i did actually read David [TS]

  McCullough 70 1776 which is a great look [TS]

  yeah I wish that there were books at the [TS]

  level of detail and skill of that book [TS]

  about the other years of the war because [TS]

  it is literally just about the year 1776 [TS]

  and you get to the end your life but but [TS]

  but no tell where 1777 it's not [TS]

  nope they're out there is one by someone [TS]

  else someone else 1775 [TS]

  yeah that that's the run-up to it yeah [TS]

  it's a really good book nobody sings [TS]

  nobody sings in it by the wanker [TS]

  it's not really connected to the musical [TS]

  and now rich in any way and well here's [TS]

  my nonfiction 14 we haven't done one of [TS]

  these in a long time i read a really fun [TS]

  book called up up and away the kid the [TS]

  hawk rock flatty Pedro like Rhonda raj u [TS]

  P the crazy business of baseball and the [TS]

  ill-fated but unforgettable montreal [TS]

  expos that is the complete title by just [TS]

  by jonah keri who is a way a friend of [TS]

  the [TS]

  the podcast will say he actually used to [TS]

  work with Phil Michaels and as [TS]

  sportsbooks go it is delightful because [TS]

  want baseball in Montreal man that was a [TS]

  car crash and the fans the poor fans [TS]

  have to have to deal with it anyway [TS]

  those are books books are good you [TS]

  should read books I Oh guys I right [TS]

  finally read good omens [TS]

  oh right now i just noticed that as i [TS]

  was looking at goodreads yeah I finally [TS]

  realized i know people really love it I [TS]

  found it gave it a 350 k life I have had [TS]

  on a shelf for close to 20 years I still [TS]

  have not gotten past page 35 found it [TS]

  okay [TS]

  Wow no i I've read in many years I [TS]

  remember really loving it and I keep [TS]

  trying i keep trying because people keep [TS]

  saying oh but you it's so you you would [TS]

  love it and you know there are parts of [TS]

  it that are really hilarious and then [TS]

  there are parts of it that they're [TS]

  trying they're trying so hard you're [TS]

  trying so hard to be yeah quirky in [TS]

  English and yeah i mean they are working [TS]

  time coming up but i will say people [TS]

  versus of the same thing with pratchett [TS]

  just in general for me and i have not [TS]

  been able to get through anything smile [TS]

  that's a shame i love Terry Pratchett I [TS]

  like him but don't love them and maybe [TS]

  that's the thing i like I want to [TS]

  arrange on this for him yeah have a [TS]

  great fondness for him and he's very [TS]

  different writer from neil gaiman and [TS]

  I'm always blown away that the two of [TS]

  them collapse yeah it is it's weird [TS]

  there's some very funny stuff in it i [TS]

  mean there's there's definitely stuff [TS]

  where I started and I read it out loud [TS]

  to Lauren because it's like get a load [TS]

  of this this is really funny but then [TS]

  there's no other stuff that's it was [TS]

  fine i think it got oversold because i [TS]

  know some people think it's like the [TS]

  greatest book ever [TS]

  yeah that's probably can't leave live up [TS]

  to the now it is not an errand [TS]

  expectations are hard i definitively say [TS]

  it is not the greatest book ever it's no [TS]

  great expectations [TS]

  yeah yeah you did there yeah i yeah let [TS]

  me down to this of the subtitle of great [TS]

  expectations is our are not what you [TS]

  should have about this book lower the [TS]

  expectations right there a Dickens tried [TS]

  to put that in for the reviewer he did [TS]

  you know everyone locked it off didn't [TS]

  really turn seconds on the clock was [TS]

  paid by the word so he was patting that [TS]

  title [TS]

  yeah oh yeah title word sir extra [TS]

  alright we've come to the end of the [TS]

  book club I want to thank my guests for [TS]

  talking about books we should do this [TS]

  again sooner than the million years it's [TS]

  been since the last one [TS]

  not counting the stand which we don't [TS]

  care because I was a totally different [TS]

  crowd David except for me and David [TS]

  David Laura thank you for being here [TS]

  thank you [TS]

  the pleasure as always as always get [TS]

  more'n thanks for being here it's nice [TS]

  to hear your voice on a podcast i know [TS]

  it's such a rare occurrence these days [TS]

  but it's a pleasure to come back to my [TS]

  one true home tel tell us about you you [TS]

  you people can find you another podcast [TS]

  maybe you can find many other podcasts [TS]

  uh clockwise yes with some guy named [TS]

  Jason yeah which shows up weekly on some [TS]

  day of the week that we choose to show [TS]

  up house wednesday or thursday usually [TS]

  somewhere in the middle of week and just [TS]

  starting last week I've started a new [TS]

  podcast with two other friends of the [TS]

  incompetent i would say maybe that's [TS]

  overselling index treatment and John [TS]

  Smoltz called the rebound [TS]

  yep in which is a shortish tech podcast [TS]

  that's maybe funny and probably a little [TS]

  bit crass at times but you know that's [TS]

  what you get when you hang out with lex [TS]

  and John bless you doing small podcasts [TS]

  is really loves more fun yes thank God [TS]

  will see if anybody likes the second [TS]

  episode we've decided maybe just saw it [TS]

  already haha dropping like while you're [TS]

  the first dibs a yes it was it was a lot [TS]

  of fun [TS]

  dan I haven't listened yet because i [TS]

  don't have a community more i go on or [TS]

  something and pick up my right I feel [TS]

  your pain up i listened to half of your [TS]

  of your upgrade podcast with my curling [TS]

  and then I had something to do here so [TS]

  often happens [TS]

  well i mean i got i was i have a lot of [TS]

  spare time which i don't have a into [TS]

  doing so like I should listen to this [TS]

  podcast I never get to listen up i guess [TS]

  that this is where we are now just time [TS]

  to understand Scott you you know you [TS]

  were the one among us who has to go [TS]

  somewhere where people pay you [TS]

  it's it's a tough lot of my I tell ya [TS]

  but ya i'll keep showing up going to [TS]

  keep a the books pay for the books i [TS]

  guess this is leading up to me saying [TS]

  Scott McNulty thank you for being here [TS]

  I don't think it's sincere that having [TS]

  taken time out of your busy work week of [TS]

  Scott Scott's we had we search we we had [TS]

  such a moment we we had BBQ together in [TS]

  San Jose California it was delicious was [TS]

  a special moment it was a special yeah [TS]

  and and peanut butter pie and peanut [TS]

  butter pie peanut butter pie anyway [TS]

  thanks to everybody out there for [TS]

  listening to this episode of the book [TS]

  club and the uncomfortable we will see [TS]

  you next time goodbye [TS]

  alright and thanks everybody out there [TS]

  for listening to another edition of you [TS]

  can thank me [TS]

  oh yes exchange there was this because I [TS]

  have a job here tomorrow [TS]

  I've seen almost everything now I've [TS]

  seen things you wouldn't believe it's [TS]

  something off the tails ergaster not [TS]

  that didn't record on the dan Houser [TS]

  gate call recorder files lost like tears [TS]

  and rain [TS]

  yeah time to digest I and I to hang up [TS]

  skype you'll see in 12 hours before the [TS]

  but that's hilarious [TS]

  this is how we fill our time now [TS]