0:00:00the incomparable number 210 September
0:00:11welcome back everybody being comfortable
0:00:14i am your host Jason L and I'm convening
0:00:16it's not like the retro book club here
0:00:19we are going to be talking about Stephen
0:00:22King's novel The Stand we have talked
0:00:24about Stephen King before we did an
0:00:25episode about his book about the time
0:00:28traveler goes back to stop the Kennedy
0:00:30assassination just what is it called 11
0:00:332011 22 6363 I can never remember when
0:00:37doctor who premiered and when Kennedy
0:00:39got assassinated because they're like
0:00:40two days apartment i'm a very bad
0:00:42student of history and a very good
0:00:45student doctor who anyway but we're back
0:00:48to talk about the stand one play it is
0:00:50my favorite Stephen King novel it is
0:00:52also i think my introduction Stephen
0:00:54King I've got a great panel with me to
0:00:57talk about this book which was first
0:00:59published in like 79 and then republish
0:01:02tin in vegas 78 and republished in 1990
0:01:06joining me to talk about it
0:01:09are these schmeiser hello I'm happy to
0:01:13be here when I think about talking about
0:01:14Stephen King novels I think of two
0:01:16people one of whom is laser miser so
0:01:18it's good to have you here thank you
0:01:19I also don't think about Monty Ashley
0:01:22but he's here and i'm happy to hear you
0:01:25had another way there didn't I my money
0:01:28hi it's good to have you is it because
0:01:31you're delightful surprise
0:01:33okay haha i will accept that is not
0:01:36quite an insult okay good that's what I
0:01:38was sorta not quite going for I I the
0:01:41print the other person i like to think
0:01:43of when I think of Stephen King novels
0:01:44is of course John siracusa who is here
0:01:47hello you know after hearing you say to
0:01:49all of us that we don't have to talk too
0:01:51long about the stand that one thing to
0:01:53say to you Jason
0:01:54you ain't no nice guy oh my god i love
0:01:58it the first reference we're saving it
0:02:00for the complete and uncut episode yet
0:02:03you have to wait like 15 years between
0:02:05the spot for you guys and just talked
0:02:07for five hours tonight and all our first
0:02:10release a one-hour long version and then
0:02:12like for it to about my time also here
0:02:15to talk about the stand is Erica and
0:02:17sign hello hello
0:02:19I have actually had stand by our am
0:02:21stuck in my head all day because that's
0:02:23nice
0:02:24which is why
0:02:24hopefully not a great choice since it's
0:02:26not at all related but very most boring
0:02:29isn't it Erica isn't it the trip
0:02:32what should be don't fear the reaper
0:02:34hell off the world its butt and
0:02:37everybody else out there who hasn't read
0:02:39the stand you shouldn't listen to this
0:02:40podcast m 00 and spells spoilers
0:02:43all right all my god you know just a
0:02:47feud
0:02:48I think mid last week somebody tweeted
0:02:51at Stephen saying MO and spells
0:02:53something or other and I was just
0:02:54shaking my head because in the middle of
0:02:56reading the book and I guess the key is
0:02:58not gonna get this but I get that tweet
0:03:00I thought we would start by talking a
0:03:01little bit about our personal history
0:03:03with this book since it's been around
0:03:05for awhile I i'll start by saying that I
0:03:08heard that this was a great book but I
0:03:10didn't read the original I didn't I I
0:03:12knew was out there and I had friends who
0:03:14are big fans of stephen king and end of
0:03:15this book in particular and then there
0:03:17was that big publicity campaign in 1990
0:03:20when the complete an uncut addition that
0:03:22that is over like a thousand pages i'm
0:03:26trying to see 1153 is what my copy says
0:03:28came out and I i said ok that's the one
0:03:31I'll buy and read and indeed i have the
0:03:34first edition and in and inside I have a
0:03:37bookmark of the first complete and cut
0:03:39addition that actually explains what it
0:03:41is from the publisher which is hilarious
0:03:44it has a bulleted list of why it's
0:03:45bigger from Doubleday that I still uses
0:03:48the morning very very helpful anyway III
0:03:50in the summer of nineteen ninety i was a
0:03:53working a summer job between years of
0:03:56college at this as a temp at this like
0:03:59power plant out in the middle of nowhere
0:04:01with like a hundred and five degrees and
0:04:03I remember the lunch hour
0:04:04I would sit outside in the shade eating
0:04:06my little meager sandwich and drinking
0:04:08my little can of soda and reading the
0:04:11stand for an hour before going back to
0:04:12the mind-numbing work of really honestly
0:04:16the super flu could have come at that
0:04:17moment and I wouldn't have even noticed
0:04:19because i was out in the middle of
0:04:21nowhere and if you leave behind payday
0:04:23candy bar wrappers
0:04:24that's good idea what Harold do so John
0:04:28what's your with your history with the
0:04:30stand
0:04:30well I guess before the internet the
0:04:33only way we had to get things was like
0:04:35the store or me
0:04:37Lauder and remember the Columbia House
0:04:39like mail-order things for four cds
0:04:42that's kind of how i got into music was
0:04:43like that that record thing and there
0:04:45was also one for books was it also
0:04:47Columbia's I don't even remember anymore
0:04:48but was one of those things where you
0:04:49pay a dollar and get five free books or
0:04:51something like that the quality
0:04:52paperback club right yeah i did the
0:04:54science-fiction book club
0:04:56yep me too i don't i don't remember
0:04:57which it was but whatever it was I was
0:04:59doing at the same time that I was doing
0:05:00is getting the free CDs and and for
0:05:03whatever reason I I don't like you know
0:05:05fantasy novel paperback before that but
0:05:07I got a hardcover the same one you
0:05:08probably have Jason the big first
0:05:10edition Doubleday hardcover uncut stand
0:05:13i don't know how i picked it I probably
0:05:14picked it because it was like the big
0:05:16thing on the cover of the little sheet
0:05:18that you fill out with a little pin and
0:05:19the check boxes which free pick your
0:05:21five free books and so I don't remember
0:05:23what that the books were that I got free
0:05:25and i don't remember how I escaped that
0:05:27plan probably because i was just a
0:05:28teenager and should have been signing up
0:05:29for it anyway but anyway I got work
0:05:32longer a lot of us and I think it was
0:05:34also i wasn't released in the summer
0:05:35time I seem to recall reading in the
0:05:37summertime as well and so I read through
0:05:39that book and when i finished the book i
0:05:43put it down and just went back to the
0:05:45first page to start over again and
0:05:47that's the first look I know I had ever
0:05:48done that with and the stand like it was
0:05:51was my top favorite book for the longest
0:05:54time certainly during all of my teen
0:05:56years in young adulthood so I i have
0:05:58read the stand more times than I read
0:06:00any books except for probably lord of
0:06:01the rings Wow all right Erica what's
0:06:05your story with the stand
0:06:06well we were we were library family we
0:06:09went to the library of a couple of weeks
0:06:11and my mom would get like 30 books and
0:06:12you know I aspired to get that many but
0:06:14it wasn't that many and I want to say
0:06:17was probably within a year or two of the
0:06:19rerelease she I think she my mom had
0:06:22originally read the early version and
0:06:24then decided she wanted to read the
0:06:25expanded version so i didn't know
0:06:27anything about the earlier version i
0:06:29just saw that she had this book that was
0:06:31huge
0:06:32I was like yeah I was like okay I need
0:06:34to read that book it was just sort of a
0:06:35challenge to myself it's that long that
0:06:38is something that I i need to to read II
0:06:40don't even care what it's about and I
0:06:42was probably like a freshman in high
0:06:43school at the time so I picked it up and
0:06:45I zipped through it probably way faster
0:06:48than I
0:06:48then I should have because it meant i'm
0:06:50skipping a lot of homework and I just
0:06:53loved it so I i haven't read it as many
0:06:55times as John has but i have read it
0:06:57three or this was probably my fourth
0:07:00time through but I've never read the
0:07:01original version just the like the huge
0:07:03one every time we leavin uncut so i have
0:07:06read The Lord of the Rings more times
0:07:07than this because i used to do that
0:07:08annually
0:07:09I've read them the same amount which is
0:07:11to each so just twice each Monty what's
0:07:15your story withstand mom's read it last
0:07:17week for the first time never heard of
0:07:19it i think i had read the cut version
0:07:23once when the uncut version came out I
0:07:26got the paperback so I'm a little behind
0:07:28you guys looking inside this is the
0:07:31first paperback printing from a 1991 how
0:07:34much was the paperback
0:07:36oh i think i did actually read the paper
0:07:39back so would have been about 90 91 when
0:07:41the library 690 now she's it's 2495 for
0:07:44the hardcover I got I got screwed good
0:07:46job way to be a good shopper Monty it
0:07:48was free from the library you guys yeah
0:07:50the other one of the shiny red ya
0:07:53tomorrow colored yeah and as a bonus the
0:07:56back announces that the first two dark
0:07:59tower books are out but I read this book
0:08:04i think four or five times in total but
0:08:07whenever i have anything stronger than a
0:08:09strong cold i tend to read the
0:08:11free-throw I'm miserable and I want to
0:08:16imagine that everybody else was soon and
0:08:18also be miserable
0:08:19this cold is going to kill us all which
0:08:22my girlfriend has reminded me that means
0:08:24this book that I'm holding is probably
0:08:26riddled with disease because I'm always
0:08:29reading it when I have the flu
0:08:31it is Project Blue maybe it's keeping
0:08:34you alive
0:08:35whoo yeah I'm just it that's an
0:08:38unscientific area a little bit made you
0:08:40feel better
0:08:41Lisa what's what is your stance story
0:08:44summer of nineteen eighty-four i was
0:08:48able to start babysitting and that was
0:08:52also some my mom graciously agreed to
0:08:53drive me to the nearest used bookstore
0:08:55and every week i would take the five
0:08:58dollars i had earned and I would go
0:08:59browse the shelves
0:09:01and i bought the stand 11 week with
0:09:04along with like four or five other
0:09:06stephen king books for my five dollars
0:09:08some and I read my way through all the
0:09:13short story collections first so i read
0:09:15the short story that loosely Precision's
0:09:17this book and then i read the stand and
0:09:21when you're in seventh grade there's
0:09:23always that when I survived the
0:09:25apocalypse i'm going to go live in a
0:09:26museum fantasy r or whatever but
0:09:28delivered
0:09:30oh my god i had a plan how it's going to
0:09:33DC and live in the Smithsonian that
0:09:34everything you and John should compare
0:09:37notes John also has something about
0:09:39surviving the apocalypse
0:09:40yeah but I read the stand and it hit my
0:09:43after the apocalypse buttons and then I
0:09:45just got sucked in and kept going kept
0:09:46going on so it actually turned into kind
0:09:50of a comfort read through middle school
0:09:52and high school and then the year I
0:09:54graduated college in 1994 my first post
0:09:58graduate splurge was a paperback of the
0:10:01you know completely uncut version and I
0:10:04read it
0:10:05concurrent with the airing of the
0:10:07miniseries and I was on a beach break
0:10:09with a friend of mine and this poor
0:10:10woman had to listen to me rant and rave
0:10:12every night about how bad the gas haha
0:10:14its and that's not in the block and and
0:10:17well i'm not sure like to do that but i
0:10:19think i really like the way that miguel
0:10:21ferrer slate that's that's okay so
0:10:24you're blown up by a bomb anyway yeah so
0:10:26I've had I I've probably read the book
0:10:28and I still read the stand once every
0:10:31few years when I want an engrossing read
0:10:34that I know will reliably entertain me
0:10:37and I find something new every time and
0:10:39I think it's in reading it in my
0:10:40thirties and forties has been a lot
0:10:41different than reading it as a
0:10:42thirteen-year-old so
0:10:44oh yeah I've probably read it about ten
0:10:46eleven times maybe
0:10:48oh wow so no you know it's again i've
0:10:50been reading the same i've been reading
0:10:52for 30 years so you know where people
0:10:55fair enough yeah wow so I guess the
0:10:58logical next thing to ask would be what
0:11:01is it about the stand that makes it so
0:11:03notable in stephen king's work
0:11:06what is it about the stand that has all
0:11:09of us have admitted to being
0:11:10multiple-time readers of this book and
0:11:13you know I I don't do
0:11:15not a lot of books that i read there are
0:11:16some my wife has a strict no reread
0:11:18policy which I don't understand but
0:11:20that's our policy admired this i do
0:11:23there looked in the world there's always
0:11:24other books to read but i don't i don't
0:11:26read read a lot but I've reread this and
0:11:29will read it again and treasure my copy
0:11:31so i think i want to start there which
0:11:33is what is it about this book what is it
0:11:35that makes it something that stays with
0:11:37you and that you want to revisit whether
0:11:40you're just feeling sick but it's been
0:11:43you or or was thinking about the
0:11:46apocalypse that is to come or what I'm
0:11:48gonna do is what you guys think
0:11:50well I am a reader to start with I have
0:11:52a terrible memory so i can't remember
0:11:54books or movies until i have read or
0:11:56seen them several times and I really
0:11:58like this book the first time through
0:12:00and afterwards i remembered that i liked
0:12:02it i like maybe I remember that feeling
0:12:04of a great enjoyment as I went through
0:12:05it but I couldn't remember exactly what
0:12:07happened
0:12:08therefore I decided to read it again and
0:12:10again and here we go again so I think
0:12:13for me i'm a sucker for apocalypse
0:12:15stories and I think I like stories about
0:12:18the apocalypse and stories about way
0:12:21after the apocalypse
0:12:22so the first half of this book is right
0:12:24up my alley I do like the second half
0:12:27but it definitely tapers off as far as
0:12:29enjoyment goes so i think quite often
0:12:31when i start reading it I'm rereading
0:12:33just to see the apocalypse happen again
0:12:35and then because I've already gotten
0:12:37that far i might as well stick around
0:12:38for the next six hundred pages
0:12:40yeah yeah I feel the same way actually
0:12:42that that I I I definitely maybe we can
0:12:45talk about this later I definitely enjoy
0:12:46the first part more than the the rest of
0:12:49it and maybe that is because i'm
0:12:50enjoying the the the layout of the
0:12:54actual apocalypse as it as it spreads &
0:12:57M in the immediate aftermath as opposed
0:12:59to sort of then the battle between good
0:13:02and evil that comes afternoon what what
0:13:04else one of my favorite parts of the
0:13:06apocalypse scenario you guys are talking
0:13:08about is one that I didn't get to read
0:13:09until the complete version came out and
0:13:11it's chapter 38 way to describe all the
0:13:13ways that people died that are super flu
0:13:16yeah that's a great one yeah like the
0:13:18poor kids who died from neglect or the
0:13:20girl who gets locked in the freezer with
0:13:22her husband and her son or the woman who
0:13:25blow yourself up with a gun the hair
0:13:26an addict i love that chapter um I don't
0:13:29know why I just drink it but but i think
0:13:33i think because it points out that you
0:13:34can have this you know again romantic
0:13:36adolescent fantasy about Oh surely once
0:13:38i survived its it's all you know she
0:13:40cakes and victory and putting myself to
0:13:42sleep by the Hope Diamond every night
0:13:44and then someone points out that now as
0:13:47a matter of fact the world becomes a lot
0:13:48more dangerous and you are a lot more
0:13:50loan it but I think why I keep rereading
0:13:53is I always find someone new to latch
0:13:56onto if that makes sense
0:13:58um like the first reread I did where I
0:14:01realized that when Stephen King was
0:14:02writing Harold water he was essentially
0:14:04putting a Navitar for a youthful write
0:14:07his own youthful regularly ego in the
0:14:09book was was kind of an eye-opener
0:14:11without holy crap this is a guy who's
0:14:13just look back on his working this is
0:14:15the guy who's supplementing his own
0:14:17self-loathing and his fears about his
0:14:20writing in in to harold and it gave me a
0:14:24lot more sympathy for that character for
0:14:25example and again as i find as i get
0:14:28older of different characters do or
0:14:30don't resonate with me the way they
0:14:31would have when i was a teenager
0:14:33um that said Mike Russian jelyn my crush
0:14:35on blood Bateman however has been going
0:14:37strong for about 30 years
0:14:38oh my god I can't explain it but there
0:14:40it is oh I like that it's essentially
0:14:44three or four different novels in a Rome
0:14:47that you get people worrying about the
0:14:51spread of the disease and then the
0:14:53disease itself and I to love chapter 38
0:14:56because it shows that the author has put
0:14:58actually putting thought into what are
0:15:01the effects of all these things that I'm
0:15:04doing to earth or at least America I
0:15:06guess we don't really know what happens
0:15:07to the rest of the planet probably not
0:15:10great but there aren't that many books
0:15:12that take huge tonal shifts where you
0:15:16start off with an entire world and then
0:15:19500 pages later you're reading notes
0:15:22from us of a note from a subcommittee on
0:15:25whether or not to take a census exactly
0:15:28why this could this could have been you
0:15:31know two books or three books I suppose
0:15:33that would have been another way to tell
0:15:35it in a different point in the
0:15:36publishing industry and in Stephen
0:15:37King's career trajectory maybe it
0:15:39would've been
0:15:40and I don't know he he could have
0:15:41started it 500 pages in and just said
0:15:43there was an apocalypse and everybody
0:15:46but the people i want to talk about died
0:15:48but he really takes his time making that
0:15:50happen
0:15:51I find it fascinating that friend is
0:15:53such a naturally gifted writer and he
0:15:55just you know it's not he's got some
0:15:58weird veins of subtlety through the book
0:16:00but I i have found it interesting that
0:16:02the fran passages he points out what a
0:16:04natural voice she has a natural impulse
0:16:06compared to harold who desperately wants
0:16:08to be a writer and lets his own stupid
0:16:10nature getting away so i think it was
0:16:12actually working out some some some
0:16:14artistic crisis issues along the way
0:16:16with his book to just talk about some
0:16:18past podcast I like Apocalypse stories
0:16:20as well and this and we also talked
0:16:22about in the past there's lots of
0:16:23different kinds of apocalypse and the
0:16:24most appealing kind to me and one I had
0:16:26never read up until this point was i
0:16:28guess i think you had called the clean
0:16:30apocalypse where things aren't destroyed
0:16:32or blown up a radioactive this dead
0:16:34bodies everywhere but they eventually
0:16:35you know liquefied and dry up the
0:16:37animals either you know like take care
0:16:39of itself eventually but everything else
0:16:41is still there and so it fulfill its
0:16:44like it's you know living substance
0:16:45missoni wherever you want to live the
0:16:47thing that you want to do and all those
0:16:48people you know this is booked for
0:16:50introverts people get rid of all of the
0:16:51people believe all their stomach that
0:16:53stuff is pretty cool and so that was
0:16:55exciting and they left their stuff and
0:16:57and there weren't enough of them left to
0:16:59eat all the candy food or anything so
0:17:01things yeah pretty good shape given that
0:17:03almost everybody is dead right and if
0:17:05you read this book read the book as a
0:17:07teenager he sounds like a lot of us did
0:17:09there are many many characters for you
0:17:11to identify with as an introverted
0:17:13teenager in in this story and it
0:17:15definitely changes of course as you age
0:17:17and read the book and start relating
0:17:18more for the adults in the story and
0:17:19everything like that but so many
0:17:21characters that you know I don't have
0:17:23necessarily Harold is is stephen king or
0:17:25some part of himself in there but like
0:17:27it's interesting takes on these type of
0:17:30things and we'll talk about the
0:17:31characters later but like it's not you
0:17:33think you know where everything is going
0:17:34to go especially if you read a stephen
0:17:35king book before because usually sinking
0:17:37wants to have like one or two
0:17:38Stephen King ish protagonists and you
0:17:41kind of know that underneath it all
0:17:43they're really good people and they're
0:17:44going to face challenges in the floor
0:17:45over this so many people in this book he
0:17:47can do like the joss whedon thing like
0:17:49actually that guy you like is gonna die
0:17:51how do you like that one hour
0:17:52or this is good this is not going to
0:17:54turn out well you know I mean if Harold
0:17:57was the only character and like if there
0:17:59was a protagonist and Harold and like a
0:18:00big baddie bad guy in a regular stephen
0:18:02king book how would not have ended up
0:18:04the way you did but there are so many
0:18:05freakin characters in this book that he
0:18:07can he can do everything he can surprise
0:18:09you and I was riveted through the whole
0:18:10story like it just affected me i don't
0:18:12think i've ever read a book with that
0:18:13many characters again except maybe lord
0:18:15of the rings but Lord of the Rings does
0:18:17not spend a lot of time
0:18:19flushing out like you're like a mirror
0:18:20or something you know it's not did not a
0:18:22lot of times whereas stephen king is
0:18:23like I know how to do characters I he
0:18:26had clearly has an affection for all
0:18:28these characters good and bad it's gonna
0:18:30give each 150 pages in the end up in the
0:18:32same page book
0:18:33well he's got a tremendously generous
0:18:34heart in the book too because I I feel
0:18:38so bad for reward every time I read this
0:18:40book I feel bad for Lloyd airport on
0:18:43Lloyd well I feel for like the word that
0:18:45one of I've never stop feeling sorry for
0:18:46those Naomi because she just had no
0:18:48chance at all you know i mean there's
0:18:50that one moment on a hillside where she
0:18:52could have chose differently and I i
0:18:55I've often thought about how monstrously
0:18:58unfair the the god of this book is with
0:19:01the way you know he he lays punishments
0:19:03on people for free choice for life and
0:19:05naomi is just as horrible horrible
0:19:07warning that that but yeah easy
0:19:10I John you're right there's a hundred
0:19:12fifty pages
0:19:14although money wasn't you when you and I
0:19:15were talking on twitter and you said
0:19:16that you really could have done without
0:19:17the part about the kid
0:19:18um yeah I've got some problems with the
0:19:22kid
0:19:22yeah and I can also do without the kid
0:19:25once that once we start talking about
0:19:26the time that this book is set i will
0:19:30have much more to say about what i think
0:19:32is going on with the kid I realized that
0:19:34we have had several episodes of the show
0:19:37involving books about the apocalypse and
0:19:40that is I think doing
0:19:42yeah to a lot of influence of of John
0:19:45and Lisa it was suggesting and and you
0:19:49know a bottle of the apocalypse and
0:19:50bringing means only gonna make it worth
0:19:53it i turned on its nice it turns out I
0:19:54like him too but but it is fascinating
0:19:58about i always ask what what draws us to
0:20:00it and and there's this idea
0:20:03first off there there's just this
0:20:04feeling about the fragility of society
0:20:05and
0:20:05how does the world and here it is a
0:20:07fairly we watch it play out but really
0:20:12it's it's a premise in action which is
0:20:14what if almost everybody died and then
0:20:16he's got a reason why everybody dies and
0:20:18it's not
0:20:19yeah and it's it's basically accidental
0:20:21release of a biological warfare agent
0:20:23that that kills everybody and and and
0:20:26then they're swept aside and then what's
0:20:27fascinating to me is that then it's all
0:20:29about the what happens when you find
0:20:31yourself alone and society has vanished
0:20:33and what do you do and what how do you
0:20:36survive and and that leads into that
0:20:38second phase of the book which is kind
0:20:40of fascinating which is this weird like
0:20:43you know we hear that there's some lady
0:20:46out out west that we're gonna go find
0:20:49and it's strange
0:20:50and-and-and has almost like a mythical
0:20:53quality to it but it's also you know
0:20:55it's also it says something to me about
0:20:57like people are trying to find somewhere
0:20:59to go and something do because they it's
0:21:01you know it's over the the story that
0:21:03they thought they were living in is over
0:21:05and it turns out there in a very
0:21:06different kind of story and that that is
0:21:08fascinating to i think yeah I think that
0:21:11that those are the most interesting
0:21:12parts of the book to me and RR when the
0:21:14world is ending and then immediately
0:21:15after where everybody is uprooted and
0:21:17has no idea what they're going to do to
0:21:19survive and they're kind of like
0:21:20glomming onto people they find and those
0:21:23people are sometimes good and sometimes
0:21:24not well I think when it gets to the you
0:21:27know the end part where it's really sort
0:21:29of the good versus evil and they're also
0:21:30having town meetings and stuff i sort of
0:21:33bifurcation myself a bit and I enjoy it
0:21:35on two completely different tracks i
0:21:38really like the the the town meeting
0:21:41style stuff like how does society try to
0:21:43rebuild its tough both on that you know
0:21:45that the good side and a bad side but I
0:21:47don't like mixing that with the good
0:21:49versus evil thing I prefer my good
0:21:50versus evil stories to be a little bit
0:21:53more in your face with you know dragons
0:21:54and stuff like that so I'm also enjoying
0:21:57you like it to be more in your face and
0:21:58Randall Flagg is a little too subtle for
0:22:00you haha i guess i mean a fantastical
0:22:04are probably better better term for that
0:22:06so I'm still enjoying the good versus
0:22:08evil thing but so so dragons are
0:22:11slightly more fantastical in a giant
0:22:13hand made of lightning coming out of the
0:22:15out of the middle of nowhere he saves
0:22:17after the big
0:22:17finish though he didn't get the animals
0:22:19a lot but you know it's more about the
0:22:22setting i prefer it not to be in a
0:22:24real-world typesetting yeah
0:22:26time for a brief break to tell you about
0:22:28our sponsor its lynda.com you've heard
0:22:31me talk about lynda.com before ly in da
0:22:35dot-com lynda.com is the place to go
0:22:38when you want to learn stuff they have
0:22:40more than 2,400 courses and that's not
0:22:44all the courses are taught by the
0:22:45experts these aren't people who are
0:22:48making things up because they read it
0:22:49out of a book these are the people who
0:22:50know how to do this stuff and they're
0:22:52gonna tell you and they're going to do
0:22:54it on video and that video is going to
0:22:56be produced in Linda comms beautiful
0:22:59video studio so its high-quality
0:23:01professionally produced video from the
0:23:03experts so it's easy to learn
0:23:05it's very clear it's well-put-together
0:23:07you can watch the videos on your
0:23:09computer on your smartphone on your
0:23:12tablet it works everywhere and there's
0:23:14one low monthly price to get access to
0:23:17all 2400 plus courses twenty-five
0:23:20dollars a month gives you unlimited
0:23:22access and you can learn as much as you
0:23:24like there are courses for every
0:23:26experience level imaginable so if you
0:23:28just want to get started learning about
0:23:29something
0:23:30lynda.com can help and if you're a pro
0:23:33but you want your skills to be a little
0:23:34bit better there are advanced courses as
0:23:36well think about the software you use
0:23:38everyday anything in the adobe creative
0:23:40cloud microsoft office the apple pro
0:23:43apps like final cut and logic all of
0:23:45that stuff there are lynda.com courses
0:23:47to help you stay current to get what's
0:23:50new with new features and new versions
0:23:52it's all there there's an ipad for
0:23:54business course to get maximum
0:23:56productivity out of the ipad there's a
0:23:58google docs and sheets on iOS first look
0:24:01that's out now
0:24:02keynote six training really if you can
0:24:04think about it there's probably a great
0:24:06lynda.com course on that subject and the
0:24:10courses are all broken down into little
0:24:11bite-sized pieces so even if you only
0:24:13have 15 minutes you can learn something
0:24:15because you can look at the course and
0:24:17jump right to the part that you want to
0:24:19learn about it really is great stuff if
0:24:21you haven't checked it out i encourage
0:24:23you to check it out and here's the best
0:24:24part you can check it out for free for
0:24:27seven days and it's not just a little
0:24:30taste you have
0:24:31access to the entire lynda.com library
0:24:33for seven days you can learn so much
0:24:35that you'll become a super genius and
0:24:37take over the world after seven days or
0:24:40you can keep on going as a lynda.com
0:24:42member after that but here's where you
0:24:43go to get seven days of mind expanding
0:24:46video training for free
0:24:50lynda.com / incomparable that's ly
0:24:53nba.com slash incomparable to try
0:24:56lynda.com free for seven days
0:24:59ly nba.com slash and comfortable and
0:25:02thanks so much to linda.com for
0:25:04sponsoring being comfortable that I
0:25:06haven't Vegas chapters problematic but
0:25:08the reason I do is because there's I
0:25:10don't think he ever fully flushes out
0:25:12the parallel between the Las Vegas
0:25:15society and the boulder society of the
0:25:17no las vegas already has the lights on
0:25:20and bolder they're all just kind of you
0:25:23know that the implications that Boulder
0:25:24the kind of disorganized because they're
0:25:26all very nice whereas in Las Vegas
0:25:27everybody kind of has this natural bent
0:25:29towards toadying and so they're ok with
0:25:30being bossed around and um he only goes
0:25:34into this once or twice
0:25:36oh gosh there's I have to find the
0:25:38passage it's about um Danny who has the
0:25:41rotating cast of mothers and there's
0:25:43only a few passages here and talk about
0:25:45how the people who end up in Vegas are
0:25:47not necessarily all evil
0:25:49they're just people who drifted one way
0:25:52or another because of fear or because of
0:25:54an inability to reflect on the contents
0:25:56of their own characters and I really
0:25:58wish that King would have done more of a
0:25:59meditation on on how how how very little
0:26:02difference there is between so-called
0:26:05good and so-called evil but it just
0:26:06comes down to a series of choices that
0:26:08you do or don't consciously make all the
0:26:10time but that stuff is that stuff isn't
0:26:12as fun as following trashcan man around
0:26:14the desert
0:26:15oh he's another tragic figure yeah
0:26:17already simple pension check
0:26:20he was so much fair to the bad guys like
0:26:22it it's not it is a little bit one-sided
0:26:24because this way more good guys that are
0:26:25fleshed out but we talk about Lloyd I
0:26:27think and it's before the show and you
0:26:30know this is not a lot of bad guy
0:26:31characters but for the most part
0:26:32everybody who's in Vegas who gets
0:26:35flushed out a little bit has a reason
0:26:37for being there has their own
0:26:38motivations the only one who is
0:26:39ridiculously velez flag and even he is
0:26:42you know sort of evil but doesn't quite
0:26:45understand why and is you know that
0:26:48starts to fall apart towards the end he
0:26:50starts off as elemental force but then
0:26:51towards the end he is all let his more
0:26:54shaky and it's clear that he's like well
0:26:55he's kind of a man but he's also kind of
0:26:57this force of nature but he's not behind
0:26:59the force of nature and you know it all
0:27:01comes to a head at the end I the good
0:27:04versus evil thing I don't I think that
0:27:07blends well with the apocalypse because
0:27:09once you just have like a bunch of ppl
0:27:11rattling around the united states like
0:27:13it seems like you know that the world
0:27:14shrinks so much like obviously if you do
0:27:16the math is way more people than there
0:27:18are in boulder or Las Vegas left in the
0:27:20country but we just focus on the small
0:27:21group and once you're just rattling
0:27:23around in the country like that it's
0:27:24very easy to slip back and sort of
0:27:26primal is Aman tribalism and one of my
0:27:28in my future and my later reads this
0:27:31book one of the interpretations i
0:27:32started to latch onto is that it is the
0:27:35really real world and there's not really
0:27:37any you know Stephen King style magical
0:27:40supernatural stuff but as soon as you
0:27:42strip everything away people immediately
0:27:44fall back to their primitive you know
0:27:46demon haunted world kind of you know
0:27:49superstitions and this story of what
0:27:52happened between this group in Las Vegas
0:27:53and the Super Bowl tickets retold a few
0:27:55times and eventually all the
0:27:56superstitions become actual magic and
0:27:58the stories about you know Randall Flagg
0:28:00become real stories and like you can you
0:28:02can look at this anymore talk about this
0:28:03with toro we can connect this totals
0:28:05about you can look at this and say this
0:28:08this is an entirely you know this is how
0:28:10the this story is viewed but
0:28:12realistically what really happens like
0:28:14crash came and just rolled up with it
0:28:15together probably everybody out and it
0:28:17wasn't hand of God said offers crazy guy
0:28:19who thought he was going to be you know
0:28:20like if they're all plausible logical
0:28:22explanation for something that could
0:28:24they could play out like this and you
0:28:25can just become embellished in in the
0:28:27retelling three or four times that's all
0:28:29it takes right and why would that happen
0:28:31why would this otherwise rational people
0:28:33start believing in this magical story
0:28:35two or three generations because that's
0:28:36exactly how it happens all the time and
0:28:38so not that I'm saying that's my
0:28:39favorite interpretation of the book but
0:28:40the more I read the more I say the more
0:28:42i like looking at it as like everything
0:28:44has an actual real explanation and the
0:28:46good versus evil thing is it's kind of
0:28:47like red conned into it like oh of
0:28:50course there was a super evil guy we
0:28:51were the super good people and you know
0:28:53I mean
0:28:53I think you have to dismiss arrange that
0:28:55he said he explained that the last two
0:28:57pages of the book which is that Randall
0:28:59flagons have revived on the shore of
0:29:01some African nation right well that's
0:29:03the story of like what you can never
0:29:04actually kill evil kids because you know
0:29:05it always comes back right and I mean
0:29:07I'm not saying like I i say that's what
0:29:09obviously it's not the intent of the
0:29:10author that's not the primary
0:29:12interpretation of the book but sometimes
0:29:14when I squint that especially the thing
0:29:16with the bomb going off because that is
0:29:17like the most overt I hey guys there's
0:29:19magic and oh here's the hand of god and
0:29:21it's like yeah maybe or maybe the thing
0:29:23just went off accidentally because no
0:29:25one is going to be alive to tell the
0:29:26tale so who's you know to me and let me
0:29:28get the you know the omniscient narrator
0:29:29tells that this is what happened but if
0:29:32you just see a big mushroom cloud in the
0:29:33distance and you know Stu end up going
0:29:35home and retails but you like the it
0:29:37explains how legends come to be in that
0:29:39almost everything had to happen this
0:29:40book is real certainly the apocalypse is
0:29:42because science-based or whatever and
0:29:44then all the dreams they have a sort of
0:29:45old testament god that's one of my
0:29:47favorite things about this book like
0:29:48mother Abigail's God is the Old
0:29:50Testament God not that not the new
0:29:51Desmond and so don't give me that old
0:29:54time religion so this is a lot of that
0:29:56sort of baked into the book like it's
0:29:57not be kinder gentler got it anymore you
0:29:59know it's the strange arbitrary weird
0:30:01one and you can you can record it all
0:30:03and they explained it away
0:30:05well I mean talk to rephrase what you're
0:30:07saying I think what you're saying is you
0:30:08know that that's why this book has this
0:30:10mythical kind of feel to it whether
0:30:12whether even when it's not intended
0:30:13that's how it that's how it feels that
0:30:15yeah I guess that's literally what
0:30:17happened this literally is like one of
0:30:18those stories and if it wasn't what
0:30:20happened this is how those you know this
0:30:21is a struggle between good and evil as a
0:30:24relatively skeptical person i would say
0:30:25I one of the things that I like about
0:30:26this book is the fact that it is not I
0:30:30like that it's telling this this you
0:30:32know almost mythological story about
0:30:33good and evil and the forces lining up
0:30:36against each other because quite
0:30:38honestly one of the things that exhaust
0:30:39me about so many apocalypse stories is
0:30:41that it's just well what happens
0:30:44afterward everybody kills each other and
0:30:45each other until there's nobody left and
0:30:47then we're all dead and that's the end
0:30:49and here it's like no no there's another
0:30:51story that happens which is this you
0:30:53know ultimate battle between the forces
0:30:55of good and evil and all the IT people
0:30:58are going to go to Las Vegas where
0:30:59they're going to get electricity running
0:31:01and that's evil
0:31:02I think what was what
0:31:04that woman's got the speech where he
0:31:06says because he lays it out nice as well
0:31:08is going to get scientists engineers
0:31:10military types of law enforcement
0:31:11because they like structure there like
0:31:13order and they're going to jump at the
0:31:14opportunity to to follow somebody who
0:31:16offers from a promise of that and
0:31:18remember reading that again as a kid
0:31:20going to that's harsh and a hard drive
0:31:22for Tristan like yeah I can see that in
0:31:28general like Stephen King for most of
0:31:30his stories doesn't do the Marvel movie
0:31:34thing where the world always has to be
0:31:35in peril a lot of the stories especially
0:31:37his early ones were small something
0:31:39happening in a small town there's one
0:31:40vampire in a small town there's a good
0:31:43telekinetic and it's like the world's
0:31:44always the same small town
0:31:46well you know that they think they're
0:31:48all very castle rock sometimes its dairy
0:31:50but like it doesn't have the disease
0:31:52where world you know fantasy novels have
0:31:54this the worst the world is always in
0:31:55peril bites the resurgence of some
0:31:57ancient evil looks like it's always the
0:31:58world it's never like just within some
0:32:00villages one where often we do a whole
0:32:02story about that and like who cares you
0:32:03can wipe out the whole village no one
0:32:05notices little town in Maine but I he
0:32:07has to you know to sort of great works
0:32:10of intertwined that our world in peril
0:32:12things were you know that the dark tower
0:32:14and the stand and those were his like
0:32:17you can argue which one is like it you
0:32:19know obviously the dark tower sort of
0:32:20the cornerstone of his entire work and
0:32:22wraps everything up but the stand is the
0:32:24one big sort of pillar in you know i'm
0:32:27going to i'm gonna kill everybody in the
0:32:29world this is this is a world in peril
0:32:31fight for the soul of humanity good
0:32:32versus evil which he didn't indulge in
0:32:35in his career up to that point i'm
0:32:37trying to think of what did he did he go
0:32:39back to that I think this is more or
0:32:41less the only sort of realistic world in
0:32:44peril thing and then there's the dark
0:32:46tower which is world's plural in
0:32:47parallel reality but it's either gonna
0:32:49get expansion this idea right i mean
0:32:51that the dark dad was kind of the
0:32:54standard large and away
0:32:55well but it's all it's all
0:32:56interconnected I mean you've got like
0:32:58one of my favorite things is like it if
0:33:00you just if I was you recommend someone
0:33:01read three things by Stephen King would
0:33:03be like the entire dark salary series to
0:33:05stand in the eyes of the dragon just to
0:33:06see how you can take how you can take
0:33:09three entirely different genres and and
0:33:12styles of books and audiences and
0:33:14connect them all into one big thing and
0:33:16it's just it's just
0:33:17fascinating fascinating trainwreck are
0:33:19fascinating beautiful tapestry depending
0:33:21on how you look at it actually the very
0:33:23first time that i reread the stand was
0:33:26after I'd started reading the dark tower
0:33:27books and I was like oh yeah like you
0:33:29meet somebody told me that he weaves
0:33:30them in a little bit so it's like okay
0:33:32I'm going to read all of his other stuff
0:33:33that has little connections to shower
0:33:36which all just about everything I said
0:33:38so and so I did and and then actually
0:33:42just before i read the stand this time i
0:33:44had just finished reading wizard and
0:33:45glass again which has the scene where
0:33:47those characters are walking through
0:33:49what seems to be Kansas during the time
0:33:52of the post-apocalypse because you know
0:33:55they see a newspaper that says captain
0:33:57trips on it just like oh I just get that
0:33:59little shiver every time I see that hard
0:34:01again because of its it's that book but
0:34:03then they also point out that the the
0:34:05baseball team is what is it the Kansas
0:34:07City Monarchs instead of the Kansas City
0:34:08Royals so it's not actually our world we
0:34:10could still be in for this always want
0:34:13to be monarch swears that negro league
0:34:15team
0:34:15mhm true but in this in this in wizard
0:34:18glasses the MLB major league baseball
0:34:21and Lisa was mentioning Glenn Bateman
0:34:23speeches before and I remember my first
0:34:25couple of read-throughs of the books
0:34:26that was my favorite part because it was
0:34:28like a character in the blade like you
0:34:30always wanted characters characters in
0:34:31the book to discuss like the discuss
0:34:34what's happening in the book this is not
0:34:35sit down and talk about it a few times
0:34:37they did that it's like yes glad it's
0:34:39finally saying all the things that I'm
0:34:40thinking what are the people going to
0:34:41let's discuss it like instead of just
0:34:43the characters being in dread and always
0:34:45running from chases or whatever he would
0:34:46sit down every once in a while inside
0:34:48will help
0:34:48let's think this is gonna turn out like
0:34:50see that's exactly the only conversation
0:34:52I would ever be having with people would
0:34:53be like constant rehashing of Glenn's
0:34:55conversations there there are some
0:34:59characters i have more of a problem with
0:35:01as i get older just because I think oh
0:35:02you know you tried buddy but you didn't
0:35:04quite nail it and I have rarely
0:35:07connected to the women in this book the
0:35:09same way i've connected to the male
0:35:11characters and I have spent a lot of
0:35:13useless time thinking about whether
0:35:15that's because King bro this is a
0:35:17comparatively young man and was still
0:35:19developing the kind of imagination
0:35:21empathy needed for whether it's because
0:35:23the book was written during the nineteen
0:35:25seventies and perhaps gender attitudes
0:35:28for that dramatically different
0:35:29or what the story is but there's an
0:35:32awful lot of slapping of women's faces
0:35:34that takes place in like the first
0:35:35quarter of the book and I've always been
0:35:38vaguely bought I've always been kind of
0:35:39bothered by by two things by Miss
0:35:41Abigail's you know elderlies mystical
0:35:44black woman check because it feel it
0:35:46does feel kind of sticky you know it's
0:35:48it's the kind of thing that young white
0:35:49men right when they're oh she's machine
0:35:51applies she's with you she's so
0:35:53profoundly other like oh she's a woman
0:35:55and she's black and she's old she's
0:35:58basically you know and she's a bad West
0:36:00she's actually no yeah no she's
0:36:02absolutely like she's every possible of
0:36:04you can take off on the box and and
0:36:06that's always bugged me that the way
0:36:08that he's written her especially that
0:36:11passage about how much you enjoy sex and
0:36:13then I've always had a difficult time
0:36:15connecting to
0:36:16but like the the part of the book that I
0:36:18feel the best toward friend is always
0:36:20the part where she's burning her dad and
0:36:22then after my life I've always kind of
0:36:25had our friend with the hell are you
0:36:26thinking is is going through my mind
0:36:27through most of the rest of the book
0:36:29most of the time and again I tried to
0:36:31figure out if this is a cat's the result
0:36:33of King writing this when he was very
0:36:34young because he's got a roster of great
0:36:37female characters for a lot of the rest
0:36:39of his books or if this is an unwitting
0:36:41reflection of the time period in which
0:36:43King was writing this book or what but
0:36:44there's there's something about you know
0:36:46Lucy and Nadine and and and you know
0:36:50yeah but the data Jergens the data
0:36:51Jergens lesbian turn on and off thing is
0:36:53a little problematic and and you know
0:36:55this if you're writing this book now eat
0:36:59I think he'd get dinged for it
0:37:00yeah I I never actually noticed that
0:37:02sort of stuff when I was younger
0:37:03yeah I I kind of the first few times
0:37:05throughout think I related to friend and
0:37:07then now reading it I really don't in
0:37:10part because I'm older than she is and
0:37:12she acts a lot younger than she is i
0:37:14think in many cases but I think also
0:37:16just the fact that there aren't a lot of
0:37:18women when when you are compared with
0:37:20the number of well-developed male
0:37:21characters and then the choices that
0:37:23they're all kind of archetypal and you
0:37:26do get a lot of that on male side but i
0:37:27think there are enough guys that they're
0:37:29not all that way so you've got mother
0:37:31Abigail as the you know archetypal other
0:37:33yo woman basically and then you know
0:37:36you've got you've got Nadine sort of the
0:37:38femme fatale and religion sacrifice
0:37:42yeah that too and then you get the
0:37:44girlfriend and the mother figure you
0:37:47know friend turns into the mother figure
0:37:48after being just like the wayward
0:37:50wayward daughter figure and none of them
0:37:53seem quite as real to me as any of the
0:37:56the male characters throughout but I
0:37:58thought that perhaps one of the reasons
0:38:00for this is the archetypal thing this is
0:38:02a story of good vs evil the characters
0:38:04all sort of do have a little bit of that
0:38:07in their DNA
0:38:08I think that it fits so I I don't get
0:38:11too worked up about it but I do tilt my
0:38:13head a little bit i feel that kings
0:38:16point of view can be shown by right at
0:38:18the end of the book when even though
0:38:20he's giving us dozens and dozens of
0:38:22characters pretty much the four living
0:38:25white middle-aged dudes go off to solve
0:38:27the problem
0:38:28yeah let's be fair most of them died
0:38:31yeah 3 out of the 4 end up dead and the
0:38:34photos I've seen by a mentally
0:38:35challenged man they get to go be Christ
0:38:37figures but there it's basically
0:38:40everybody else stay at home
0:38:42yeah i think it's clear that King
0:38:45understands the male characters in the
0:38:48book more than he understands the female
0:38:50ones and it's easier this point his
0:38:51writing career where that makes a
0:38:54difference in his characterization will
0:38:55give more time to the male characters
0:38:57and their their internal monologues and
0:38:59motivations and actions make more sense
0:39:02from the various perspectives obviously
0:39:03he clearly understands Herald and the
0:39:05older man who sort of like what he wants
0:39:07to be but the women they do fall into
0:39:09all these roles and it got the roles
0:39:11they fall into the role so I don't know
0:39:13the rules of the Stephen King sees for
0:39:14women or the women had the seventies but
0:39:16so many of the women's opinions not just
0:39:18in this book with a lot of his books had
0:39:20to do with how they relate to the men in
0:39:22the books which man are they going to
0:39:24choose as their man which man will be
0:39:26their protector which man fulfills that
0:39:28like they're the women are looking
0:39:30towards the men and the men are looking
0:39:32towards the horizon and so they end up
0:39:35either at the end up either thinly drawn
0:39:37or just not given as much time to
0:39:41develop you made like the the other
0:39:42stereotypes that you know that the
0:39:44toughbook lesbian one like he tries to
0:39:46show them as at being complex and making
0:39:49decisions that affect the rest of the
0:39:50story and so on and so forth but it's
0:39:51all kind of writ small like there's not
0:39:54a lot of the women worrying about
0:39:56how they're going to fix the problem of
0:39:57the world like and the men you know some
0:40:00of the major thing about some of them
0:40:01are so that is just a weakness and i
0:40:03think a young author and to be fair when
0:40:06you have a book with this many
0:40:07characters and it's hard to make all the
0:40:09great and he just eventually you just at
0:40:12it you know you just end up leaning on
0:40:13the ones you can do better so he just
0:40:14does the male characters better uh huh
0:40:16you know he does as an author I think he
0:40:19gets better with the women i think if
0:40:20you reduce the character count he can
0:40:22imbue the women with more interesting
0:40:24things like always and like a book like
0:40:25Gerald's game was like look I'm really
0:40:27got to get this right it's just going to
0:40:28be a woman she's going to be my thing
0:40:30under the whole book my respected and
0:40:32she becomes an entire person um he's an
0:40:35older guy he does have his weird
0:40:36prejudices but yeah that's in repeated
0:40:39readings of this and i said this used to
0:40:41be my favorite book i think lord of the
0:40:43rings has passed it simply because now
0:40:44as i read it and i get older i see sort
0:40:47of all the things that you didn't see
0:40:48when you're younger than the writing is
0:40:50not as strong as kings later work in the
0:40:51characterizations are not as Richard
0:40:53sophisticated as they could be
0:40:54I still love the story i I'm willing to
0:40:56forgive a lot because of the puffiness
0:40:57like it's kind of you know trashy pulpy
0:41:00soap opera ish sci-fi apocalypse like
0:41:04I'm willing to forgive a lot for that
0:41:06fun but it you know it is it has
0:41:08decreased in esteem and and in my mind
0:41:10over the years
0:41:11well the two the two people who kill
0:41:13themselves over the course of the book
0:41:15because they can't handle living without
0:41:17a man or having a man take care of them
0:41:19both are both women because you've got
0:41:20Rita the socialite that killed herself
0:41:23around Larry never wouldn't love to have
0:41:26Larry honorary but you've also but
0:41:30you've also got Perry who briefly
0:41:33mentioned a few chapters who kills
0:41:36herself after poor stew watches marks a
0:41:38pen that you know appendectomy and by
0:41:41the way that appendectomy seeing is
0:41:42actually one of my favorites that got
0:41:43added back into the expanded book
0:41:45because it really points out how quickly
0:41:47you can be laid low on eternal enemy the
0:41:49podcast david brin actually has a nice
0:41:51that's understood official then yes sir
0:41:55have a nice
0:41:57he has a base throwaway line actually
0:41:58the postman of all things where a
0:42:00character kind of loses his head when
0:42:02somebody steals his tooth powder and his
0:42:04loss because one of the things that's
0:42:06been killing people and that
0:42:07post-apocalyptic landscape is
0:42:09that was a parent parent pairing
0:42:13peritonitis yeah yeah and that's been
0:42:16killing people and so this guy's
0:42:17fanatical about his teeth regimen and I
0:42:20had never really stopped to consider
0:42:21that yeah you know if the bacteria get
0:42:23into ulcerated gums it's done with and
0:42:26so I love when stuff like okay once upon
0:42:28a time I had this melody I could go into
0:42:30the ER got it taken care of overnight
0:42:32turns into oak rap i'm going to die in a
0:42:34lot of abdomen abdominal pain to be fair
0:42:38to Stephen King actually the his first
0:42:40published novel was Carrie yeah but
0:42:44don't make it sound like he never wrote
0:42:46about with dentist so I'm just like he
0:42:48has it he has a deeper intuitive
0:42:50understanding of men
0:42:51that's one of the books that passes the
0:42:52Bechdel test and that it's not all women
0:42:54talking to each other about about guys
0:42:56because I yeah just pop up a lot sloped
0:43:00we're talking to get to each other about
0:43:01God
0:43:02yeah so we're on were on characters now
0:43:04I think this is this is our opportunity
0:43:05before we get to that important talk
0:43:07about the timeframe in the expanded
0:43:08edition and all that
0:43:10let's talk about the characters because
0:43:10i think one of the things that we didn't
0:43:12mention really except in passing when we
0:43:14talk about the appeal of this book I
0:43:15think it's got to be the characters this
0:43:17is a huge cast and that there are some
0:43:20really memorable people in this cast of
0:43:23characters this is of this is a you know
0:43:25that there isn't just about three or
0:43:28four people who walk off to Las Vegas to
0:43:30get killed it's it's this huge
0:43:33widescreen set of characters so if you
0:43:35guys have more characters you want to
0:43:37talk about now is your chance we haven't
0:43:40mentioned Nick's a mechanical great
0:43:44yes I love him yeah yeah
0:43:47ap I think he's that it's hard not to
0:43:49Harold is kind of like the the
0:43:53novelization version of the character
0:43:55from one of my favorite jonathan coulton
0:43:57songs the future soon where it's he's he
0:44:00kinda more or less gets his wish and
0:44:03that he survived the apocalypse everyone
0:44:04else has gone all his tormenters he
0:44:07finally has time to write you know in
0:44:09his underpants whatever he's doing
0:44:10swimming away their that the one girl he
0:44:11liked in town is the is this left I he
0:44:14is he may literally be the last man on
0:44:16earth
0:44:17and he has the chance to remake himself
0:44:19and it doesn't start off well for him
0:44:24but like it
0:44:25he almost gets it's like okay well I can
0:44:27be a new person the society i can be
0:44:28different than I was
0:44:30I'm useful i'm smart people look up to
0:44:32me like the great you know turn turn
0:44:34where Larry says that house becomes
0:44:36legend larry's mind because they're
0:44:37following all his signs and the
0:44:39disconnect between like this kid that he
0:44:41meets you so insecure and obnoxious and
0:44:43everything and the guy who had the
0:44:44smarts write those signs but he doesn't
0:44:46turn it around in the end in the end he
0:44:48is his own worst enemy in the end you
0:44:50know the the Robot Wars cause his love
0:44:53to you know have a bionic eyes and
0:44:55realize that he is the person who caused
0:44:57all this and it's it's kind of a tragedy
0:45:00out but like I said it in a book with
0:45:03fewer number of characters or in a more
0:45:05conventional Stephen King novel he would
0:45:06have turned it around but he doesn't
0:45:08have to turn around this book he's
0:45:09allowed to follow a course that seems
0:45:11very realistic and likely in that he if
0:45:15he ends up he ends up being his own
0:45:17worse enemy and can't pull out of you
0:45:19know I mean he makes it more than makes
0:45:20a conscious choice we can't let go of
0:45:21his hate and I like the type of story
0:45:24because it's not the easy one where when
0:45:26everybody's gone
0:45:28you know you will be able to sleep in
0:45:30the Smithsonian and you'll be great
0:45:32person and you'll get the girl and
0:45:33everything will be great it's like
0:45:34wherever you go there you are you're not
0:45:36going to be able to escape yourself
0:45:38ah and despite your efforts to the
0:45:40contrary and I that's why I really liked
0:45:42his story lines its I mean it strikes me
0:45:45is not being clichéd and I I feel for
0:45:48him every time through like you hate him
0:45:50and you want him to be punished so badly
0:45:52but so many times like oh hell you were
0:45:54so close you are so close
0:45:55oh hi always feel so sorry for him I
0:45:57think that's why he's one of the
0:45:59characters that I definitely had to grow
0:46:00into when i read it as a youngster I was
0:46:02really sort of just seeing the
0:46:03black-and-white two-dimensional part of
0:46:05it and I was just angry at him all the
0:46:07time and didn't care and now that i have
0:46:10had grown up and actually had some life
0:46:12experiences and and battled a little bit
0:46:14with the good versus evil in myself I
0:46:16can feel a lot more for his character
0:46:18and I would like to think that I've
0:46:20turned it around and done things okay
0:46:21but i can understand his sort of inner
0:46:25turmoil turn it to fight back and forth
0:46:27so it's a much much deeper more
0:46:29meaningful
0:46:30character transformation linear
0:46:32transformation for me now than it was
0:46:33when i first read the book the first
0:46:35couple times
0:46:36well as a teenager was next to Harold
0:46:38water in school and and so that was the
0:46:41reason I didn't like it was because I
0:46:42was already dealing with people like him
0:46:44every day then but you know once you get
0:46:47older and like Erica says you've had to
0:46:49have a reckoning with the limits of your
0:46:50own strengths and weaknesses and you
0:46:54have to start and you start living with
0:46:56the consequences of decisions you've
0:46:58made
0:46:58it's easier to go back and look at
0:47:00harold and see the times when the deck
0:47:03has been stacked against him and how
0:47:05easy it was and for him to make some
0:47:08decisions and how hard it was for him to
0:47:10sit to stand by and not make others
0:47:12there's that there's a the conversation
0:47:15thats too has with the herald where they
0:47:18did they try to settle things that were
0:47:19friends for over Franny and instead of
0:47:21course lies like a rug about his
0:47:22interesting fran but there's that moment
0:47:24where we're and King writes beautifully
0:47:27words it's pretty obvious that Harold
0:47:29just lets go of his his petulance
0:47:31towards the old old world and recognizes
0:47:34that he can be somebody you like and
0:47:35stupid really you know carry each other
0:47:38through this and and be good people
0:47:39together and he doesn't do it and I read
0:47:41that now i'm like 'oh Harold
0:47:43Oh buddy the tragedy it really is and
0:47:47and you think about the dumb things you
0:47:48did as a teenager you're like oh I had I
0:47:50i could have been I this person was
0:47:53reaching out i was just too dominant
0:47:54angry and youngest yet so and then two
0:47:57kings credit he does not really well and
0:48:00he's unsparing and that's actually the
0:48:01reasons i think it is Harold its kind of
0:48:04him
0:48:05grappling with his own demons own
0:48:06writerly alter ego
0:48:08I think there's a lot of King and Harold
0:48:10everybody i like i like that Harold is
0:48:12is weak not really evil he's weak and
0:48:16his weakness is exploited he fails to
0:48:19make good decisions because he's weak
0:48:21and and for reasons right but and then
0:48:25he is exploited by flag essentially his
0:48:28weakness and he he you know he doesn't
0:48:29get a reward he ends up dead because he
0:48:33flag doesn't really trust him either
0:48:35right and and uh huh ok his because he's
0:48:38too smart too much yeah he thinks too
0:48:40much and he and and he's gonna be
0:48:41trouble you've already good omens right
0:48:43or
0:48:44talking about how Crowley didn't really
0:48:45fall from heaven so much as you just
0:48:46kind of software down slowly
0:48:49you know where it's not that were wasn't
0:48:52a whole lot of intentionality was just a
0:48:53series of small decisions that added up
0:48:55and that's sort of like Jason weaknesses
0:48:57Harold's Harold's condition as a result
0:48:59of all these things cascading and i like
0:49:02that his weaknesses sort of all
0:49:03revolving around his ego he sees himself
0:49:05is so much better than everybody around
0:49:07him and that is something that I be as a
0:49:10teenager now looking back I realize I
0:49:12can relate to that I didn't recognize it
0:49:14at the time but although it's such a
0:49:16defense mechanism because his dad picked
0:49:18on him and he felt awkward and out and
0:49:20so we you know you see how because
0:49:23there's that lovely chapter where he
0:49:24kills himself and well that's a turn of
0:49:27phrase
0:49:27uh-huh there's that chapter 18 kills
0:49:29himself and you basically get taken for
0:49:31the autobiography of hair autobiography
0:49:33of of the formation of harold and you
0:49:36know from when he was a small boy who's
0:49:37his dad is saying all these terrible
0:49:39things about him and he's better-looking
0:49:41in this pretty little sister shadow and
0:49:43you can see where all of the hertz keep
0:49:44piling on and he kind of has to create
0:49:46these defenses to push people away
0:49:48before they could hurt him again and
0:49:50that's where he gets the superiority
0:49:51complexes because it's safer and easier
0:49:53to go on the offensive
0:49:55that is why i love both his written
0:49:57final declaration where he signs his
0:49:58name hawk and the fact that it gets
0:50:01dismissed later by RR for traveling
0:50:03quite saviors who are like this
0:50:05beautiful dying declaration and I just
0:50:06completely like whatever Harold this is
0:50:08ben and they keep ya like he doesn't
0:50:10even have any written mine was like oh
0:50:12he's conscripted the truth to print it's
0:50:15all whatever is a little it's a little
0:50:17bit late by that point just a little bit
0:50:19if you want everybody up and fled town
0:50:21and yeah that Lloyd has a similar
0:50:24situation where he is a person Vic not a
0:50:27victim of circumstance but like it is
0:50:29weak and his weaknesses exploited like
0:50:32because again there are things he's not
0:50:33a good person right but yeah there are
0:50:36things in him that are redeemable but
0:50:38the flag basically waits for him to be
0:50:40near death and like you know II and
0:50:42ready to eat his cellmate
0:50:44yeah he would have gone to Vegas anyway
0:50:45but if you wait until he's almost dead
0:50:47you can get him as a lot you know
0:50:49completely loyal for life like that that
0:50:51type of a mean witch Lloyd even
0:50:53recognizes in the end I
0:50:54actually recognizes he waited until I
0:50:56was at my weakest and extracted undying
0:50:58loyalty from me and I'm going to give
0:50:59him that because I'm just you know like
0:51:01miss it it's it's another sad situation
0:51:04of a you know a similar person who was
0:51:08and i'm using flags like well if there's
0:51:11no Randall Flagg around you don't have
0:51:12to worry because weak people won't be
0:51:13exploited in this way I mean grandma
0:51:15flags a stand-in for all the other
0:51:16things that are going to exploit a
0:51:19weakness or insecurity or internal
0:51:21conflict in the world is just a
0:51:23convenient narrative shorthand I'd like
0:51:26to briefly mention one of my favorite
0:51:28really short-lived characters which is
0:51:31Starkey the general who kind of goes
0:51:34crazy watching the videos everybody dead
0:51:37he's really bucking space ooh that's so
0:51:41much of what happens to the country is
0:51:43his fault he's the one that says kill
0:51:46anyone who says there's a super flu put
0:51:48every city on lockdown but yeah I have
0:51:52that poor journalist in west virginia
0:51:53his last act is to try to put out a
0:51:55broadsheet before he dies
0:51:56yeah but I think Starkey is an
0:51:58interesting Lee tragic character because
0:52:00he's clearly gone crazy and in a book
0:52:03the size King can take his time showing
0:52:05him going crazy and then going down and
0:52:08killing himself but fixing the face in
0:52:10the soup first
0:52:11yeah and then the next guy sits in his
0:52:13chair why can't he have cleaned off the
0:52:15face at least why don't know what he'll
0:52:17be busy but it doesn't it sits down and
0:52:20takes over right there
0:52:21noted that i got dark humor of the book
0:52:24is like you can you can't tell what it's
0:52:26just always gonna be said that guy's
0:52:27going to slowly go mad while watching
0:52:29the same thing but it there's there's
0:52:31humor and a lot of this the absurdity of
0:52:33the apocalypse is I mean even chapter 38
0:52:35you can even think about some of those
0:52:36passages are just like slapstick death
0:52:39comedy of like what could possibly go
0:52:41wrong with these people but you know it
0:52:44thats that's throughout the entire book
0:52:46like that he's not not afraid to the
0:52:48characters aren't afraid and King isn't
0:52:50afraid to dare you to laugh it the
0:52:52terrible things that are happening but
0:52:54I'm gonna mention the trashcan man i
0:52:57love the fresh cat man
0:52:59he is a pure character he knows what he
0:53:02was happy because it doesn't to fire and
0:53:04flat flag totally distracted him from
0:53:06his mission such a poor baby he's
0:53:08basically be this i mean no way to know
0:53:12what love is somebody that I was a bully
0:53:14the trashcan there and he's also flags
0:53:18big weaknesses that he finds trashcan
0:53:20man as endearing as I do but even even a
0:53:23better
0:53:24it's literally a bad idea to have this
0:53:26guy running around inside your group he
0:53:29doesn't seem to care that much about
0:53:31shutting him down
0:53:32well he is useful he does have skills
0:53:35like he's the only flexpay problems he
0:53:37mistakes crazy for stupid
0:53:39well I mean like he wants to see what
0:53:40the trashcan man's abilities trashcan
0:53:42and supernatural ability to understand
0:53:43machinery he needs that he needs them to
0:53:45get like the fighter planes back up with
0:53:46that base or whatever and he will enter
0:53:49cells up the first tank
0:53:50yeah i mean like what really like a site
0:53:54he interrupted the trash can Trash man
0:53:56could have finally had a comfortable
0:53:57always going to do is going to burn
0:53:59every city in the United States and he
0:54:00would have done that for the rest of his
0:54:01life like now I actually have to come to
0:54:03Vegas and go to work and be like all
0:54:04seriously do you realize how much stuff
0:54:05I can burn in this country it's just you
0:54:08know I got West is pretty dance I could
0:54:10I could spend years here
0:54:12yeah I mean eventually would blow
0:54:13himself up that's the way he wanted to
0:54:15cover like it
0:54:16King even think as such it King even has
0:54:19sympathy for like the craziest of his
0:54:22character is so easy to make a crazy
0:54:23pyromaniac but no he's got to give trash
0:54:25game and a backstory why is he crazy
0:54:27what happened to him and obviously as
0:54:29mental illness but also people were
0:54:30terrible to him too like everyone's
0:54:32everyone's got their reasons everyone's
0:54:34got their story even the people who are
0:54:35just you know already and I even flag
0:54:38has kind of you know that they tried not
0:54:40to make him sympathetic but to explain
0:54:42that he has feelings too he's not just
0:54:45pure evil who knows exactly what he's
0:54:46doing he has doubts he's not sure what's
0:54:48going on
0:54:49yes he is he's period knows what he's
0:54:51doing and has doubts though I mean you
0:54:53talk about his big memories and and
0:54:55and how he incites the worst in what I
0:54:58do like is housekeeping things like well
0:54:59clearly from flag is responsible for the
0:55:01fact the sixties turned into the
0:55:03complete cluster flock of seventies
0:55:05because it has to be even more human
0:55:07nature but you know flight that the
0:55:09point is flagged out there supposed to
0:55:11be well he's wavering because the forces
0:55:12of good and finally getting their act
0:55:13together and hitting the road that
0:55:15that's always been my take on it is that
0:55:17that the ideas that evil strengthens
0:55:20when nobody works in opposition but once
0:55:22opposition is organized and starts
0:55:23working then the nature of evil is
0:55:25inherently challenged and that's kind of
0:55:26a theme through a lot of Kings workwear
0:55:28like once you get the band together and
0:55:29everyone has sex before vanquishing a
0:55:31clown or whatever whatever they have to
0:55:34do in specific book like Amanda's
0:55:36together at all
0:55:37it all works going to read that but also
0:55:40evil works even works through people
0:55:43like it needs a vessel and so the vessel
0:55:45the vessel of evil and lots of Stephen
0:55:47King stories like you get the impression
0:55:49that the force working through them
0:55:51starts to lose faith in their vessel
0:55:52like all this vessel sucks and then it's
0:55:54nice to all fall apart when it's like I
0:55:56thought you were a good vessel for my
0:55:58evil intentions but now things are
0:55:59falling apart and so that the evil
0:56:01person will get abandoned by the
0:56:02supernatural power or the powers we
0:56:04started to waver and it's like you
0:56:05always feel like it's the it's the black
0:56:07cloud going alright well this isn't
0:56:09working i'm out of here like he's going
0:56:10to start over again on that island like
0:56:12let's try this again but you know flag
0:56:15is more than just a vessel that he's you
0:56:16know sort of weave throughout the entire
0:56:18thing is something more significant than
0:56:19that and as opposed to just some random
0:56:20guy who gets possessed by some evil
0:56:23spirit or aliens or whatever but it's
0:56:25the same type of thing where it nobody
0:56:28gets to be beyond the their humanity
0:56:31beyond like that that the things that
0:56:33bother humans anger jealousy like it
0:56:35like the Old Testament God who you know
0:56:37it shows all the same attributes of
0:56:39humans you know that what why would he
0:56:41be jealous
0:56:41why would be wrathful why wouldn't you
0:56:43know it demand all these things wide why
0:56:45does flag ever have doubts why does he
0:56:47get frustrated wide why those things
0:56:49happen well because he's also a person
0:56:51kinda one of the things I like about
0:56:52flag it's it's fun to have this
0:56:55character who is just you know the
0:56:56Walking duties
0:56:57he's bad guy he's supernaturally
0:57:00something rather and he and bad things
0:57:03are gonna happen and and you get that
0:57:05feeling of that epic quest kind of thing
0:57:07is playing out a little
0:57:08for the Rings like it away right this is
0:57:10oh you know what's like going to do but
0:57:12the thing i like is flag doesn't cause
0:57:14the apocalypse right
0:57:16really I want me how to dougie does
0:57:19that's a whole shoddy workmanship on one
0:57:21door
0:57:22yeah that'sthat's it's really our fault
0:57:24its humanities failing that causes its
0:57:26own end flag is just there to take
0:57:28advantage of what happens next right
0:57:30which I'll i really like that that it's
0:57:32like now is my now it's my it's my cue
0:57:35right now it now i can get to work
0:57:38he's just wandering around aimlessly on
0:57:39the road they suddenly goes oh
0:57:40something's going on now yeah he's
0:57:43opportunistic as a virus that's a nice
0:57:44metaphor yeah haha
0:57:46one thing i like about the way flag is
0:57:48introduced is i have read none of the
0:57:50dark tower books at all but just the few
0:57:53sentences are saying some people call
0:57:55them the walking dude or all hard case
0:57:58like yeah immediately feels like this is
0:58:00a legendary character you should have
0:58:02heard of already yeah oh yeah we talked
0:58:05about the timeframe a little bit i've
0:58:06got a in my little book
0:58:07bookmark that i got from Doubleday when
0:58:09i bought the book it says the setting of
0:58:11the book has been changed from 1982
0:58:141990s it's stephen king is the same age
0:58:1740 Madonna line there with Lloyd
0:58:19strangling somebody and that's how they
0:58:21update it and they also and they also on
0:58:23head off the AIDS comparison because if
0:58:25you remember the whole point 22 well
0:58:27it's the super footwear shot that
0:58:28shifting antigen your body just can't
0:58:30keep up and then what do you know
0:58:33grid turns into HIV which basically does
0:58:35the same thing to your immune system and
0:58:37so they had to find a way to explain why
0:58:38this wasn't aids and those and those are
0:58:41the two big changes they've made out
0:58:43that they put another couple pulp
0:58:45another couple pop culture references
0:58:47and I know there's 12 teenage mutant
0:58:49ninja turtles enjoy kids haha like an ID
0:58:53y SE I had no idea i had no idea that
0:58:56the original was set in a different time
0:58:58because i didn't get a fancy book
0:58:59markets joining our differences so I
0:59:02didn't know that until you guys were
0:59:03mentioning it in like the emails for the
0:59:05prep for this podcast i was it kind of
0:59:07blew my mind a little bit so this is
0:59:08fascinating i'm not sure quite why I I
0:59:11mean I guess their marketing it and I
0:59:13said well how much updated so it's more
0:59:16of current with today is that that's my
0:59:18publishing industry executive voice by
0:59:20the way or justify so what
0:59:22by pointing out but but it has problems
0:59:24because they're there are some having
0:59:26not read the original I can't really do
0:59:28a direct comparison but it feels to me
0:59:30like there are lots of places where you
0:59:33know we've taken things that are tropes
0:59:35of characters from the seventies and now
0:59:38we just say it's the nineties or 90 and
0:59:41it doesn't actually track with how how
0:59:44the I I you know net now looking back
0:59:46from all this time later i feei feel
0:59:48like it would feel better if it was set
0:59:49in 1980 because it would just be further
0:59:51back in that era
0:59:52yeah specifically Larry Underwood
0:59:55backstory yes Larry under what is your
0:59:57full of people saying save the
0:59:57full of people saying save the
1:00:00n-word bebop for the cleaning crew and
1:00:03railway what he's talking about
1:00:06we don't like that rock and roll music
1:00:08it was a very old record I yeah really i
1:00:14think the problem is for me the
1:00:16characters don't talk like they're in
1:00:181990 they talk like they're Stephen King
1:00:20a lot of the time sure that happens a
1:00:22lot
1:00:23one specific example i wrote down for
1:00:26early in France description of herself
1:00:28good figure long legs that got
1:00:31appreciative glasses prime stuff was the
1:00:34correct frat house term looking looking
1:00:36here comes knocking yeah yeah
1:00:38looking looking looking here comes miss
1:00:40college girl 1990s you ready yeah I was
1:00:43empowered and Maxine I do i do college
1:00:46dunno y apartment
1:00:48no no no so that's a problem with
1:00:51stephen king's writing is that Steve
1:00:53stephen king came of age in the sixties
1:00:55and seventies and so eternally like as
1:00:58we were all eternally in whatever age we
1:01:00were adolescence he cannot get out of
1:01:02that and when he tries to move forward
1:01:04like like when he like you know it in
1:01:07hit he's got the kid on the skateboard
1:01:09and everything it's clear that he
1:01:11doesn't understand what skateboards are
1:01:12like it's a party of the big notion of
1:01:14it someone told him about skateboarding
1:01:16once it's like those qualities to write
1:01:18in the fifties you can't be safe on a
1:01:20skateboard mr. another in standing on a
1:01:22little wooden planks fixed wheels and
1:01:25it's endearing because he writes you
1:01:27know like it and I don't want him to be
1:01:29like all I need to immerse myself in
1:01:31modern culture and so maybe it's better
1:01:32that he sets his book in places we
1:01:34either place where it doesn't matter
1:01:35like the dark tower where you make up
1:01:36everything and everything's a mishmash
1:01:37of everything anyway or do it in an area
1:01:40that you're familiar with or with people
1:01:41are that are the age you're familiar
1:01:43with so like he probably should not
1:01:45write young adults at this point in his
1:01:46career but he could write a 50-year old
1:01:47man pretty darn well I imagine why it's
1:01:50like you get back two characters i like
1:01:52the idea of Larry Underwood a lot
1:01:54because i like it because the notion of
1:01:56some be /c lister surviving the
1:01:59apocalypse and having to to deal with
1:02:06with their brought fall from grace like
1:02:07that's a really interesting story i
1:02:09would read an update we're like one of
1:02:11the minor Kardashians was left over
1:02:13and-and-and trying to make their way out
1:02:15of Los Angeles or whatever and imagine
1:02:18the postman it does not to mention tom
1:02:20petty as the mayor of the village with
1:02:22work castle don't know you from
1:02:23somewhere and topped it off that was
1:02:25another life in the sink goes from there
1:02:28was hilarious i have to see if we can
1:02:31find anything but lay right at Larry
1:02:32underwear i mean i do the end this ghost
1:02:34of this goes to the time this goes to
1:02:36the timeframe to his I picture him as
1:02:37being one of those kind of you know
1:02:39Harry curly haired singer songwriter
1:02:43guys from the lates late seventies and
1:02:45usually york city of the seventies like
1:02:47when he is when he's in his like that i
1:02:49picture in my head I didn't realize this
1:02:51until we started talking about the time
1:02:52period i also didn't know the time
1:02:54period had been recycled i guess in a
1:02:55way that bookmark but like at Larry
1:02:57scenes i read them as if he's using a
1:02:59movie in the seventies in New York like
1:03:01this graffiti everywhere in it
1:03:02everything to this tall redhead cliché
1:03:05who make some eggs he's picking up women
1:03:07who think he's you ain't no nice guy and
1:03:09and like you just now he's got here he
1:03:11spends a lot of time on this is not a
1:03:13guy who was on the just shirt is open
1:03:15pretty darn low or and he was with the
1:03:17eagles in California no question like
1:03:19that love the idea that you have
1:03:21somebody who was like yeah i was on a
1:03:23trajectory to become you know the the
1:03:26featured performer on American Bandstand
1:03:28before Dick Clark and the rest of the
1:03:30planet died from you know cannot do dick
1:03:33clark's out there somewhere i'm telling
1:03:34you i late huh yeah maybe he has dark
1:03:37colors maybe yes the dark man I'm by the
1:03:40talking dude if that time everyone do
1:03:45everything you want what do you want to
1:03:47bet the tell ryan seacrest gets all his
1:03:48jobs that my grandma flag will dick
1:03:51clark passed on the secret crazy to
1:03:53happen but like Larry is it as a dude in
1:03:56practice i just i have a hard time with
1:03:59him because I'm I'm like oh my god Larry
1:04:01just yeah yeah he's a character that I
1:04:03also i also kind of grew into a little
1:04:06bit i really really just got bored with
1:04:08historian with skim all of his parts now
1:04:11IM to the point where i can i can kind
1:04:13of understand the the the growth that
1:04:16he's going through and what he's
1:04:17struggling with but it's still just he
1:04:20still just seems internally whiny to me
1:04:22yeah he's like an Apatow bein man baby i
1:04:24could have had
1:04:25I was just like a virgin oh yeah he's
1:04:28externally wanted to but I don't you
1:04:30feel for him like when he takes on the
1:04:32sort of the broken woman reading which
1:04:33is a cliche or whatever like that he he
1:04:35does feels like so before i was going to
1:04:38be singer but now i'm responsible for
1:04:39this crazy persons life and I'm gonna
1:04:41feel bad when she dies like it's a
1:04:43failure of myself and like that's why he
1:04:45keeps replaying that the girl telling
1:04:46him he's not a nice guy it's like I
1:04:48don't have fame
1:04:49I don't my town is meaningless not i
1:04:52have to be like a person and I'm not and
1:04:55he's internally whiny and is externally
1:04:57one-e-and like they try to turn him
1:04:59around but they never let him get he
1:05:01never become stupid read me over like
1:05:02well let's hear Larry to face it like
1:05:05he's like oh come on like the socks in
1:05:08that don't understand i'm doing people
1:05:10don't like me and I don't know how to
1:05:11deal with myself and my mom is dead even
1:05:14though she complained a lot like he's he
1:05:16is sympathetic from a certain
1:05:17perspective but i like the fact that
1:05:18they never bring him all the way around
1:05:20like Larry always kind of stays Larry
1:05:22and he's maybe the most realistic
1:05:25yeah i just want to take Lucy out for
1:05:27coffee on Lucy girl you could do better
1:05:29come on I realized that most the planet
1:05:31has died but there are still dateable
1:05:32dudes were not named Larry and he's hung
1:05:35up on his ex-girlfriend and she's hung
1:05:36up on a Ouija board and you are well
1:05:38away from that mess now don't want to
1:05:40knock you up because being a single
1:05:41mother in the after in the after scape
1:05:43is no fun all the users guide like you
1:05:46just need to have that talk with Lucy
1:05:47and and poor woman you know that poor
1:05:50woman
1:05:51we haven't talked about Tom Cullen yet
1:05:53and i can't get the most interesting
1:05:55thing about Tom Cohen that I like about
1:05:56this is that they sent him to be a spy
1:05:58because that is exactly the kind of like
1:06:01yeah we're the good guys but I like it's
1:06:05a terrible thing to do in the end like
1:06:06by the time they do it in the book you
1:06:08can either be like I'm in the mindset of
1:06:10I guess we have to do this because Randy
1:06:11flags really bag and listen like wait a
1:06:13second what do you what do you think
1:06:14you're gonna do now you could this poor
1:06:16guys like well we like when everything
1:06:18but he's really just upon our chess
1:06:19board and we here at the Town Council
1:06:20meeting or whatever it is will have to
1:06:22forget and I mean judge going it's like
1:06:26well he wants to sacrifice himself or
1:06:27whatever but sending Tom colleges solo's
1:06:29life so like it's so have like yeah it's
1:06:33so like it he's much older than we think
1:06:35is you know thanks
1:06:36it's so brutal and terrible and like the
1:06:39fact that all these good people kind of
1:06:40agreed to it and and do it like it shows
1:06:43you that like the rules have to be
1:06:45different shows you the power of cults
1:06:47actually because it's the Colton mother
1:06:49Abigail like old people had desperately
1:06:51coalesced around her and she had been
1:06:53the friendly figured that save them for
1:06:54the dreams of of Randall Flagg and I
1:06:57think I do think he stops a little bit
1:07:00Stephen King stops a little bit short of
1:07:02a really poking that home because he
1:07:04softens it a little bit with the fact
1:07:06that tom sort of when he's under
1:07:08hypnosis has this sort of extra sensory
1:07:11power and is able to see things for
1:07:13channel smarter there yeah exactly so
1:07:16it's not quite it's not quite sending a
1:07:19mentally challenged man into the fray
1:07:21it's a mentally challenged man with some
1:07:24extra stuff going on so maybe with a
1:07:26view it like as a strategic advantage
1:07:28it's like a hobby remember just like
1:07:30since there's a sleeper agent right here
1:07:32they don't know that it carries moms
1:07:34like oh no will no more respect they
1:07:36sent the no one will ever suspect this
1:07:37old man judge Farris goes that doesn't
1:07:38work out well for him but like you know
1:07:40like that they're playing with other
1:07:42people's lives like it all it takes is a
1:07:44group of like you've got this how many
1:07:45people are in boulder like not a couple
1:07:47hundred thousand or whatever and then
1:07:49like this tiny little council is
1:07:50deciding the lives of these people like
1:07:52all right you and your alignment and if
1:07:54they're willing to do it then I guess
1:07:55but like Tom Cullen is not and that's in
1:07:58the sort of magical retelling if you
1:08:00think what was it really like they just
1:08:01basically made this guy go and they
1:08:03convince themselves that they hypnotized
1:08:04him to the point where he can't be able
1:08:05to pull them right well that's pretty
1:08:07sure he could talk normally when we
1:08:09hypnotize him right he was smarter than
1:08:10you think
1:08:11yeah yeah yeah that happens he may be
1:08:14talked about the phases of the Moon and
1:08:15how beautiful they were it was beautiful
1:08:17it was like poetry
1:08:18yeah but like you know anything that's a
1:08:20trip to like he did Stephen King loves
1:08:23the the mentally deficient media
1:08:26management cool the magical kind of like
1:08:28they're always you know normally
1:08:31beautiful but but most of the time he is
1:08:33like I think he respects Tom Collins a
1:08:36character but i think when they send him
1:08:38it shows that the the values that they
1:08:40all held there have to be adjusted if
1:08:42they're going to survive in this pocket
1:08:44post-apocalyptic world and by that point
1:08:45there already
1:08:46well it's a totally Old Testament move
1:08:48you know I mean this is the same old
1:08:49testament where God ask people to
1:08:51sacrifice their children and so how is
1:08:53sacrificing an adult without a whole lot
1:08:54of free will or agency that much
1:08:55different you know I mean that's kind of
1:08:57the message of this whole book is that
1:08:58stuff is just gotten all Old Testament
1:09:00on us
1:09:01yeah yeah yeah although King doesn't
1:09:03have the heart to kill him in the end
1:09:04and I'll having him come back and be
1:09:06that the savior for everything I mean it
1:09:08is heartwarming made like he spends the
1:09:09whole book with the mo own thing in MO
1:09:11and you get the big payoff at the end
1:09:13yeah I don't have any leaves and I mean
1:09:16it works everything I said this is kind
1:09:17of like puppy and trashy but it's like
1:09:20the Nick Andres becomes his Ghost spirit
1:09:21guide I I think that's gonna sweet
1:09:23that's a testament to the power
1:09:24friendship and all that
1:09:25yeah and you could talk and when in his
1:09:27visions that like it's what you get
1:09:29I guess it's necessary but I think it's
1:09:31kind of BS because one of because Nick's
1:09:33deafness was was absolutely integral 22
1:09:36who he was as a person to you know he
1:09:38had that profound sense of isolation and
1:09:41that profound observer effect now that's
1:09:43what made him so compelling is this is
1:09:45the guy who very consciously chose
1:09:46almost everything that he was or who
1:09:48chose to be and he's one of the most
1:09:50deliberate deliberate and self-made
1:09:52people in the book
1:09:53yeah but Tom wishes he could speak and I
1:09:55think the vision is sometimes
1:09:57perspective on how you know like it its
1:09:59it's nice like it
1:10:01stephen king is good at rewarding you
1:10:03like that's why he's a million selling
1:10:05author he's going to give people what
1:10:06they wanted he can do you can do the
1:10:07highs and the lows and happy and sad and
1:10:10like a lot of it in this book is not so
1:10:12much fan services like ah right you do
1:10:14that thing so well we'll take it and
1:10:16it's it it's nice it's a lot like it
1:10:18it's a reason he's compared to Dickon so
1:10:20much right because he is very you know
1:10:22Dickens is directed by the word to that
1:10:27pretty Dickens had that had some of the
1:10:29best names in the business you know I
1:10:31mean he was just a very apt neighbor and
1:10:33i think that's that Stephen King does a
1:10:35good job of the names too but that's
1:10:38neither here nor there and share my
1:10:40theory on the kid at this point
1:10:41yeah we i'm at the point where I'm off
1:10:43I'm off the grid and and I'm i'm asking
1:10:47for anything you guys want to talk about
1:10:48that that we haven't talked about before
1:10:50we go so go for it Monty alright
1:10:52the kid is what Stephen King thinks is
1:10:55cool he drives a car from 1932 has a
1:10:58leather jacket and then pointed shoes
1:11:01pointy toed shoes he's got the swept
1:11:04hair and he actually refers to him at
1:11:07one point as a miniature street punk
1:11:09from Hell which is not the best phrase
1:11:12Stephen King ever wrote
1:11:13yeah and my argument is that the kid
1:11:15would work if this was set during
1:11:18stephen king's childhood but you don't
1:11:22want your business
1:11:23yes but in 1990 it's just weird
1:11:28he is played to be ridiculous though
1:11:29like he he's mocked by C hit this
1:11:32character is marked by the author in his
1:11:34characterization so what he does I don't
1:11:36think I mean pretty cool death because
1:11:38they find him with his hands around the
1:11:40neck of a wolf
1:11:41yeah he's marked by the author but the
1:11:42author clearly thinks he's the coolest
1:11:45this guy in the club was saying but he
1:11:47can't stand up
1:11:48I think he's a caricature of the people
1:11:50Stephen King Saul and his youth who
1:11:51thought they were cool and Stephen King
1:11:53thought they were not as cool as they
1:11:54actually thought they were and actually
1:11:56might get eaten by wolves
1:11:57I think the holiday with the gun kind of
1:11:59tilted towards John's direction i think
1:12:01it I think it still would have worked
1:12:03had been a little bit earlier because it
1:12:06in the nineties that kind of character
1:12:07is so far removed that it's not even
1:12:10like this was recently cool it's like oh
1:12:12is this a thing you know it's just so
1:12:15finally left though he could just be
1:12:17crazy because like when we see him look
1:12:18like he's into ease into whatever brand
1:12:20of beer he's into and he's just like
1:12:21dressed up like a crazy person it's like
1:12:23you don't know it isn't it almost people
1:12:25are dead
1:12:26he might have you might have gone crazy
1:12:28are you guys familiar with the key and
1:12:29Peele sketch that takes place after the
1:12:31apocalypse where you've got one guy in
1:12:33total survival mode and then he runs
1:12:36into another guy who is basically
1:12:38dressed for like Pride Day and is yeah
1:12:40trippin his balls off the ATM and the
1:12:43survive it and that basically makes me
1:12:46think of the discussion we're having
1:12:47that where I think the kid was like you
1:12:48know what there's no one around and I am
1:12:50free to let my tiny little freak flag
1:12:52fly and unfortunately trashcan man ran
1:12:57into him and i think i'm supposed to
1:12:58illustrate is that this guy is just he
1:13:02gets victimized by everybody was
1:13:03literally nobody who's ever kind to
1:13:05trashcan man because that's what because
1:13:06that's except for Randall Flagg my life
1:13:09for you
1:13:09yeah you know and and but but there's no
1:13:12human being that that ever offers this
1:13:14guy any
1:13:14fellowship or anything other than B then
1:13:16fear and contempt and scorn and she and
1:13:20that that is to me what makes the trash
1:13:21came in just such an ultimately pitiable
1:13:23tragic figure like he just it's just
1:13:26it's just in just after justice heaped
1:13:30on this dude and I feel terrible for my
1:13:33always never before never read the book
1:13:35you know it's it's it just sucks to be
1:13:37him
1:13:37I don't like the kid but I love
1:13:39everything about the trashcan man with
1:13:41which is what gets me through those
1:13:42seams
1:13:43oh my god especially pleased with the
1:13:45wolves and he's putting the walls as it
1:13:46goes
1:13:46oh yeah tell me where he's like just had
1:13:48some what their dogs
1:13:50speaking of which should we should we
1:13:52mentioned the dog dimension Kojak
1:13:54oh right because little doggie dreams
1:13:57and exposure can and then he shows up
1:13:59again later
1:14:00yes because he's been following all this
1:14:03time since he's a dog
1:14:04these dogs just like the incredible
1:14:06journey only the adult version i think
1:14:08it's interesting how there's the animal
1:14:09breakdown like the wolves and the crows
1:14:11will always be Randall flags and the
1:14:12cats are just creepy and and the horses
1:14:14are all dead and I I'll of humanity's
1:14:18best friends or day after I i love how
1:14:20to spell that doesn't like what about
1:14:21pigs are pics morally neutral doing
1:14:23besides you know I i love that because
1:14:26it doesn't he doesn't explain it
1:14:28medically at all but in such a great
1:14:30touch to say when this flu also kills
1:14:32horses
1:14:32yeah okay dead yeah what else what else
1:14:36anything I'm baby can you dig your man
1:14:39sounds like a terrible song it does but
1:14:41i'm not i had to feel like maybe that's
1:14:44why me terrible songs are popular I
1:14:46think it's kind of something supposed to
1:14:48be like he's not it would never have
1:14:49been hit in nineteen he's not Bob Dylan
1:14:51right 19 in nineteen eighties like a
1:14:54marshall crenshaw kind of guy are not as
1:14:56good and he's got up to just happen to
1:14:58have a hit song but it does it's not a
1:15:00very good song now looking at my notes I
1:15:03want to share probably my favorite
1:15:05sentence in the book which is by Dawn
1:15:08they were running east across Nevada and
1:15:10Charlie was coughing steadily oh yeah
1:15:13that whole first chapter i really like
1:15:15it i like that seeing kind of like he's
1:15:17not a big character he dies pretty darn
1:15:19quickly right but he's just at his desk
1:15:21the alarm goes off and the door just
1:15:22happen to not close why the door
1:15:24close i don't know sometimes the doors
1:15:25and close maybe close the millisecond
1:15:27after you got through I don't know what
1:15:28he's like
1:15:29alarm door didn't close and he makes a
1:15:31split-second decision which is to get
1:15:32out of there anyway cuz family and like
1:15:33that when you repeatedly read it you
1:15:35know what is happening during those
1:15:36sequences you're like don't go back home
1:15:38you just killed your entire you know and
1:15:40it kills everybody where we go daddy I
1:15:43was a sleepin how I wrote that now too
1:15:46I wasn't to sleep in a second
1:15:52no no one that's and that's the thing
1:15:54that gets you into this but what a great
1:15:56way to get into this book is with this
1:15:57you know increasing you know what this
1:16:00book is about you know it's going to be
1:16:01disastrous but to watch it happen
1:16:03step-by-step is fascinating and that's
1:16:05what gets you in and then you're done
1:16:08you're trapped in the vortex and you're
1:16:102,000 pages later you've read the book
1:16:12again so uh we're about done anything
1:16:15that we have not talked about that
1:16:17somebody wants to throw out before I
1:16:19wrap it up
1:16:20how about this sentence the world he
1:16:22thought not according to GARP but
1:16:24according to the super flu
1:16:26yeah oh that was really wow this here's
1:16:31a nightmare for wild about 1,200 pages
1:16:34you're gonna get a few clunkers wow wow
1:16:38well you know Larry Underwood is not a
1:16:39singer in a world where AHA has hit the
1:16:42charts with take on me that's all I'm
1:16:43self it's just not possible
1:16:45the world changed after that day I don't
1:16:48know
1:16:48alright we have come to the end the
1:16:52battle between good and evil has been
1:16:54flawed and John has been defeated
1:16:56wait a second I wasn't involved that was
1:17:00off someplace else I didn't go to either
1:17:01city or in a pleasant caves yeah
1:17:03boulder looks awful go to San Diego yeah
1:17:05that's that's why it gets colder in the
1:17:07winter don't go there on that no we are
1:17:10really gonna break break away and plan
1:17:12our post-apocalypse plants again until
1:17:15then i would like to thank my guests for
1:17:17surviving past the super flu and joining
1:17:19me to talk about this really fun classic
1:17:22book that we've all read multiple times
1:17:24Lisa Schmeisser thank you pleasure as
1:17:26always thank you but Monty actually
1:17:29thanks for being here
1:17:30I'm a righteous man wonder when you say
1:17:35Erica and sign thank you for being here
1:17:39thank you and thank you for inspiring me
1:17:41to read this yet again it was it was a
1:17:43great trip
1:17:44all right get it great great trips to
1:17:47the Capitol thinking on some great trips
1:17:49John Syracuse to thank you so much for
1:17:51being here
1:17:52life was such a wheel that no podcast
1:17:53could stand upon it for long Jason deep
1:17:56em oon that spells goodnight everybody
1:18:21what do you guys want to live in the
1:18:25post captain tripps world or widget or
1:18:27are you to point your life and you're
1:18:28like oh dude I hope I go first
1:18:30I hope I like one of the first ones out
1:18:31the door because my answer has changed a
1:18:34different place in my life you know and
1:18:36i find it interesting to to to walk
1:18:40myself through a different apocalyptic
1:18:42scenarios and be like is this one I'd
1:18:44want to be alive in her or no I feel
1:18:47like I've spent enough of my life
1:18:48picturing what i would do in a
1:18:50post-apocalyptic scenario that it would
1:18:52be a shame not to give it a try haha
1:18:54what would you do what would you do here
1:18:57well if it's a case like this where
1:18:59everybody's dead but there's no
1:19:02immediate threat like zombies or aliens
1:19:05or something then I think I would just
1:19:08try to set up a the life of a hermit
1:19:10like find a place that has food enough
1:19:14until i'm going to die naturally and
1:19:16then collect all the books i can and go
1:19:18time enough at last I'm going to laugh
1:19:20this is a bad strategy
1:19:23well what would you need you need to
1:19:25have it that's fine except you need to
1:19:27bring enough technology and non hermit
1:19:29type stuff so you can offer yourself
1:19:30when it turns out you have some terminal
1:19:32disease is going to make you die in
1:19:33agony and is what I think about in the
1:19:34post apocalypse is like alright so first
1:19:36I have my full family has to be dead
1:19:38because i don't want them to be in the
1:19:39pot clips and that's just bad and trying
1:19:40to defend them from the other people
1:19:42with guns and everything so assume
1:19:43everyone's that except for me my family
1:19:44happened to die i don't want that to
1:19:46happen but if it did you see in that
1:19:48world you cannot wait is that what lexus
1:19:50kids probably right exactly you know but
1:19:53what I think about mostly is like the
1:19:55comfort that we're all used to like
1:19:56being the right temperature not getting
1:19:58rain on you or whatever and it's not too
1:20:00hard to get that comfort for yourself if
1:20:02nothing is destroyed and there's not
1:20:04marauding thread or anything because you
1:20:06can pick kind of the nicest place you
1:20:08have whatever you have to sort of have
1:20:09all these contingency plans for like I
1:20:13need one of each of one of these things
1:20:15i need all these things lined up i need
1:20:16i need to have the ability to kill
1:20:18myself if when i get older injured sort
1:20:21of on me at all times because the worst
1:20:22thing you want to happen is for you to
1:20:23fall and break your leg and not be able
1:20:26to walk home and getting too cold and
1:20:28your you get you know back in Arabic
1:20:30impossible when there's nobody around
1:20:32you have to be prepared for those kind
1:20:34of the astronauts with a little like
1:20:35they're prepared it you know well it
1:20:36looks like you're gonna die a little
1:20:38cyanide pills whatever they have
1:20:39do you have a source of everything that
1:20:41I don't know what they tell you in that
1:20:44story say that anyway I in a
1:20:46post-apocalyptic world you would have to
1:20:48account for all those things so so so
1:20:51Monty the key is in your cave where you
1:20:54live as a hermit you're with all your
1:20:55books your library cave having I mean
1:20:58castle have yes i have a space heater
1:21:00yeah and and some means of offing
1:21:02yourself like I'm going to eat that's
1:21:05just like in your kitchen because you
1:21:06have to deal with like fresh water and
1:21:07food like you'd have to develop a system
1:21:09where you can live in some reasonable
1:21:10amount of comfort otherwise you spend
1:21:11all your time like looking for food and
1:21:13making sure you survive the winter and
1:21:14that's not really fun
1:21:16oh yeah I don't want a post-apocalypse
1:21:18where I have to go camping all the time
1:21:20that's awful
1:21:20no that's yeah yeah i just recently
1:21:23moved to a new city so all of my old
1:21:26apocalypse plans are completely out the
1:21:27window and I'm really have a rebuild
1:21:29so I had had actually gotten to that
1:21:31point where i have figured out what i
1:21:33would do you know well post-apocalypse
1:21:35however i have sort of thought of the
1:21:37the short-term things and like you know
1:21:38how I could use Lego to build some
1:21:40contractions to collect rainwater off
1:21:42the belt that sort of thing
1:21:45I'm just think that you should broaden
1:21:46your horizons because the world is your
1:21:48oyster like I you should go to a place
1:21:50where you could never afford to live a
1:21:51beautiful place with natural beauty and
1:21:53natural resources where someone has
1:21:55already built a multimillion-dollar
1:21:55complex with lovely views like that's
1:21:58your opportunity now the whole world is
1:22:00yours i guess i was thinking of you know
1:22:02having to hide in the apartment because
1:22:04there's always put a damper on they put
1:22:07a damper on things and then not more
1:22:09than be told some B's some B's never
1:22:10factored into it i don't like zombies it
1:22:12suitors and rapists with a school bus
1:22:14yeah dude let's be the left-field the
1:22:16post-apocalyptic scenario for a woman is
1:22:18a whole lot different than one for a guy
1:22:19I feel what I'm thinking like that
1:22:22enough people would be dead that you
1:22:23could realistically not expect to see
1:22:25another person like this understand they
1:22:27don't see a lot of other people i know
1:22:28you said Jason just did the math and it
1:22:31seems like they should be way more
1:22:31people but i'm thinking of a stand like
1:22:33Apocalypse where it's like two is in
1:22:35threes bump into each other and arrive
1:22:37and in boulder
1:22:38like a group of 20 and that's a big deal
1:22:40yeah you could you could you know you
1:22:41could realistically just the place for
1:22:43you want to let your children 19 other
1:22:45people just sounds like a nightmare
1:22:46yeah that's what I don't go to boulder
1:22:48like yeah they in the Hamptons it'll be
1:22:50nice to have probably i would probably
1:22:53try to move south you know it's kind of
1:22:55cold up here from you after the year i
1:22:57recommend that nobody's gonna be
1:22:58watching the border
1:22:59yeah i would recommend i would recommend
1:23:02against having a summer home in a winter
1:23:04home even though it seems like it's a
1:23:05thing you want to do because traveling
1:23:07like they might run into someone else
1:23:09and if you do run into someone else it's
1:23:10probably not going to be good also until
1:23:13you learn to read the weather you may
1:23:15get caught out in early winter or yeah
1:23:17have adequate food stores especially if
1:23:20you have to do an agriculture I was kind
1:23:22of permanently psychologically
1:23:23traumatized by the road and so and so at
1:23:27this point I'm not sure I'd want to
1:23:29survive any apocalypse just because it
1:23:31seems like it would be so FA miserable I
1:23:34mean you have no note no indoor plumbing
1:23:36which is kind of a deal killer for me
1:23:38and if I had no god forbid I have to
1:23:41take care of somebody else and but on
1:23:43the other hand is the crippling grief
1:23:45from losing everyone I love and I think
1:23:47the stands though the stand this is this
1:23:49clean apocalypse where it's not quite so
1:23:51bad because uh you know the babies the
1:23:54babies live apparently right and we just
1:23:57gone down to a very small population but
1:23:59a small populations much more tenable
1:24:02manageable than the one you two million
1:24:05people in the US you can you can do
1:24:07something with that so I feel like
1:24:08society will rebuild and that and that
1:24:11there will be structure and there is a
1:24:13future whereas in something like the
1:24:14road literally you're just waiting
1:24:16around for everybody to die
1:24:18yeah like I said don't think anybody
1:24:20would clearly traumatized me about that
1:24:22which is how vulnerable you are when you
1:24:24have somebody else you're responsible
1:24:26for and so I think if you're 13 and you
1:24:29survived the apocalypse then by all
1:24:31means
1:24:32grab your boat sale of the Atlantic
1:24:34coast dock in the Potomac River and go
1:24:36live in the Smithsonian you know the
1:24:37plan works but I mean now again like I
1:24:41said either i'd be holy crap I've lost
1:24:43my entire family or I'd be paralyzed
1:24:45with terror over trying to be
1:24:47responsible for you know keeping a
1:24:49preschooler alive in the after escaping
1:24:50and both of those process
1:24:51thanks to seem awful i also washington
1:24:55DC in August is awful
1:24:57well you don't have air-conditioning I
1:24:58didn't have a lot of things a lot of
1:25:00dead bodies
1:25:00that's what you and you have to get the
1:25:02electricity back up my mom did not
1:25:04believe in her condition growing up and
1:25:05my knees and my reasoning was that if I
1:25:08went to the Smithsonian they probably
1:25:10had backup generators for all of the
1:25:11archival quality effects they had and
1:25:15failing that they also had cool
1:25:17basements made of marble where you could
1:25:19you could comfortably sleep and then I
1:25:20could spend my days reading everything I
1:25:22wanted to or dressing up in the first
1:25:23lady's outfits or replace the dinosaur
1:25:26bones or whatever it is I want to do it
1:25:27was 13 because I'm yeah well you know
1:25:30having DC is your own playground imagine
1:25:32you could go play basketball on the top
1:25:35floor of the Supreme Court the highest
1:25:38court in the land way did didn't I
1:25:41didn't Randall Flagg effectively new
1:25:43court torch the entire west coast
1:25:45because there's like there's one in
1:25:46there about what he did to San Francisco
1:25:48and Los Angeles before coming
1:25:49well you know it's there's probably lots
1:25:52of available which button to San
1:25:54Francisco would actually be great place
1:25:56to write out the apocalypse like the
1:25:57weather is really good there's a lot of
1:25:58arable land people probably have victory
1:26:00garden village
1:26:02yeah that's good free-range vegetarians
1:26:04to prey on when you want to resort to
1:26:06cannibalism
1:26:06maybe there might be 34 needed yeah
1:26:09maybe their diets made the weekend only