Hello Internet

H.I. #70: Bun Fight

 

  naughty check audio check naughty check [TS]

  i was a bit naughty [TS]

  you know how I don't like totally [TS]

  understand the difference between you [TS]

  and I when it comes to objects and [TS]

  memorabilia and mementos and things [TS]

  what's not to understand seems very [TS]

  clear well I realize we're different but [TS]

  I just always trying to understand it [TS]

  better [TS]

  so I've come up with a hypothetical [TS]

  scenario ok and i want to know how you [TS]

  would react and I know this is just a [TS]

  crazy hypothetical scenario but it will [TS]

  help me better understand you so just go [TS]

  with me for a second okay so we're doing [TS]

  a thought experiment after experiment [TS]

  yet I was trying to think of someone [TS]

  who's famous who I think you hold in [TS]

  high regard [TS]

  so I've gone for a long mascara ok [TS]

  alright say Elon Musk came to London and [TS]

  for some reason he emailed you and said [TS]

  our cgpgrey I he live in London and I've [TS]

  liked a couple of videos notice wonder [TS]

  if you want to go for a coffee [TS]

  ok I'm sure that you would say yes to [TS]

  that so you go for a quick coffee with [TS]

  him and he just chat about whatever you [TS]

  to want to chat about [TS]

  and while you're at coffee he like has a [TS]

  napkin or something and he's just [TS]

  sketching and drawing little and he [TS]

  draws like just a funny picture of you [TS]

  two sitting at a table and at the end he [TS]

  decides that and so do on this industry [TS]

  the service is sitting having a chat to [TS]

  gray great to meet you [TS]

  Elon Musk what do you do with that [TS]

  napkin [TS]

  well there's two things that occur here [TS]

  one of which is trying to navigate [TS]

  social graces yet so i think there are [TS]

  many times when you need to be seen as [TS]

  receiving a gift I cared you have no [TS]

  intention of actually keeping so you're [TS]

  not going to screw it up and throw it in [TS]

  his face because as i have learned in my [TS]

  interactions with people over my life [TS]

  sometimes you have to try to accept what [TS]

  the person is doing not like that actual [TS]

  nitpicky details of the situation yet a [TS]

  person is just trying to extend a nice [TS]

  gesture [TS]

  yep and you need to accept the gesture [TS]

  because rejecting it is a whole other [TS]

  indication that is not intended i love [TS]

  how you explain this like you've just [TS]

  discovered the skies below it's not [TS]

  you're imparting wisdom when this is [TS]

  just cold like normal human behavior and [TS]

  matters that this is the thing humans [TS]

  have to learn [TS]

  yes of course and i like to think anyone [TS]

  above the age of 10 will take the gift [TS]

  and say thank you very much [TS]

  regardless of what they think of the [TS]

  gift so let's say that you've said thank [TS]

  you mr. mask shook his hand said I [TS]

  enjoyed coffee thanks for the net can [TS]

  see around now you've got this napkin [TS]

  with a hand drawn sketch by alien mask [TS]

  signed by him of a moment you two shared [TS]

  em what do you do with it [TS]

  well I would do what I do with almost [TS]

  everything which is I would take a [TS]

  picture of it and get rid of it [TS]

  that's what i would do it right because [TS]

  what you want is the memory you want the [TS]

  signifier of the thing okay but you [TS]

  don't actually want the thing okay [TS]

  does that make sense yes how do you [TS]

  interpret the results of this thought [TS]

  experiment i remain baffled its kind of [TS]

  the answer I expected but uh huh [TS]

  is there any object other than something [TS]

  that you're keeping just for pure cash [TS]

  reasons that you would take for [TS]

  sentimental reasons [TS]

  is there anything I could have come up [TS]

  with in my hypothetical that you'd have [TS]

  said oh yeah I probably get that put in [TS]

  a frame and put it on my wall [TS]

  did I just think of an adequately cool [TS]

  thing or is there nothing you would [TS]

  frame moon [TS]

  I feel like there has to be an answer to [TS]

  this where an object also has a [TS]

  decorative value so you're talking about [TS]

  framing a thing i'm not against having [TS]

  stuff in frames and displayed in the [TS]

  abstract I'm not necessarily an advocate [TS]

  for pure bare walls [TS]

  yeah like framing and Afghan would seem [TS]

  like a strange thing to do so it [TS]

  wouldn't necessarily have that sort of [TS]

  value i can imagine a situation where [TS]

  there is an object that has decorative [TS]

  and sentimental value that I would want [TS]

  to keep would stay around can you [TS]

  concoct one in your head now or does one [TS]

  exist in your house which would be even [TS]

  better [TS]

  I just had an object from the last week [TS]

  that's what made me even think about [TS]

  this okay because you know i'm a little [TS]

  bit obsessed with graham's number which [TS]

  is this hugely big number used to be the [TS]

  biggest number ever and still famous [TS]

  number [TS]

  and I met Ron Graham in the US and we [TS]

  made some videos together and he got at [TS]

  the big pieces of paper we use a number [TS]

  file and he drew numbers and diagrams [TS]

  and explained it to me and at the end up [TS]

  going to sign up you know from Ron [TS]

  Graham little and I've had one of those [TS]

  big bits of paper of Ron grams [TS]

  description of graham's number in a [TS]

  frame because it for me it was like I [TS]

  was always obsessed with graham's number [TS]

  as a kid I met the guy we shared a day [TS]

  together we went for dinner he drew all [TS]

  these pictures for me i'm going to keep [TS]

  one and it's like special to me [TS]

  I'm trying to find what your equivalent [TS]

  of that is yeah but the graham's number [TS]

  thing like to me that is cool i can [TS]

  totally understand why you would want to [TS]

  frame that and have that on display like [TS]

  that makes sense i have no objection to [TS]

  that I have much more the objection to [TS]

  your box full of astronaut photos that [TS]

  you never look at your multiple chest [TS]

  full of astronautics that you never look [TS]

  at that's him he seems like just [TS]

  hoarding objects or no benefit [TS]

  whatsoever but the grabs everything [TS]

  makes sense and also even like [TS]

  mathematical proofs and explanations [TS]

  like that they have a particular kind of [TS]

  austerity beauty about them so they make [TS]

  sense as an object to bring my other [TS]

  hypothetical I was going to give you [TS]

  before i came up with my coffee one was [TS]

  I was imagining that if a lot mask set [TS]

  up by the way gray he is the first [TS]

  sketch of a tester I ever did when I [TS]

  first thought of it i just quickly put [TS]

  something down but the only reason I [TS]

  didn't give that to you as my [TS]

  hypothetical because i need to get a [TS]

  rational inside well that's worth a lot [TS]

  of money so of course I'm gonna take [TS]

  that cake but seven is exactly the [TS]

  clockwork that's going through my mind [TS]

  right now as it's ok it's like oh this [TS]

  is like a Leonardo DaVinci sketch of a [TS]

  helicopter has like the thing itself is [TS]

  not valuable but like the thing that it [TS]

  represents has value to other people and [TS]

  so now you can start playing this game [TS]

  of what do other people value giving [TS]

  objects intrinsic worth that they don't [TS]

  necessarily have on their own because [TS]

  you know you are [TS]

  did nothing useful in terms of [TS]

  engineering he just drew pictures of [TS]

  things that couldn't be invented but we [TS]

  all sort of like collectively agree [TS]

  society that they must have worth so [TS]

  they have this incredible worth so is I [TS]

  have a hard time separating Elon Musk's [TS]

  original sketches of Tesla have [TS]

  intrinsic value because humans would [TS]

  value them as interesting valuable [TS]

  objects [TS]

  yeah from the thing itself I feel like [TS]

  you can't separate the [TS]

  does two things I shouldn't be surprised [TS]

  anymore but you still manage to surprise [TS]

  me with your lack of sentimentality [TS]

  I think it's just the way some people's [TS]

  brains work and i said before that I [TS]

  find rooms with lots of objects in them [TS]

  it's almost similar to being in a room [TS]

  that's kind of noisy somehow it's [TS]

  distracting [TS]

  like it makes focusing on things harder [TS]

  when there's lots of things in a room so [TS]

  I feel like reducing the number of [TS]

  objects is like a way of focusing on the [TS]

  few things that you actually care about [TS]

  or want to do [TS]

  it's why we like with almost everything [TS]

  I have I try to reduce it down to like [TS]

  the minimum number of necessary parts [TS]

  that is the thing that is like unrelated [TS]

  to sentimentality there's a certain kind [TS]

  of noise that I find with a bunch of [TS]

  object but some people just don't find [TS]

  that and I think that's what the [TS]

  difference is here that there's like a [TS]

  benefit to the minimalism which is [TS]

  separated from the aesthetics of the [TS]

  minimalism I thought maybe it's more [TS]

  related to like you know your extreme [TS]

  personality because you know how your [TS]

  library funny about germs and stuff as [TS]

  well and not really funny about terms [TS]

  i'm actually just quite reasonable about [TS]

  germs well of course it's just because [TS]

  I've thought it through [TS]

  yeah this is not an extreme personality [TS]

  trait I fundamentally disagree with you [TS]

  and I will not let you just throw out [TS]

  such an aspersion about an hour to use [TS]

  like character with germs [TS]

  okay no that's what I'm saying no no I [TS]

  really was putting it there for you to [TS]

  like go either way I'm quite open to the [TS]

  fact that it's completely unrelated move [TS]

  i'm just wondering if it could also be [TS]

  related you can find distraction and [TS]

  worry quite easily [TS]

  I sometimes think I don't think that's [TS]

  fair and i think this is the fundamental [TS]

  nature of our podcast here is like a [TS]

  difficulty or an inability to understand [TS]

  the minds of other people human [TS]

  communication between humans is just so [TS]

  hard sometimes when you're really trying [TS]

  to get down to hit like a fundamental [TS]

  question of what is it like to be a [TS]

  brady and what is it like to be a gray [TS]

  it's a very hard thing to know like I [TS]

  don't really know what it's like to be a [TS]

  brady I think I have some ideas of what [TS]

  it's like to be a Brady but I don't [TS]

  really know [TS]

  oh and your life is mysterious to me as [TS]

  well like I don't know how you do all of [TS]

  the things that you do i find that also [TS]

  mysteriously I don't know what it's like [TS]

  to be a Brady because I'm not a brady [TS]

  that's why I come up with stupid [TS]

  hypotheticals about you having a coffee [TS]

  with Elon Musk [TS]

  this isn't just another line of attack [TS]

  in my never-ending quest to understand [TS]

  what it's like to be a great [TS]

  it's so hard to convey the contents of [TS]

  one's mind yeah that's ultimately the [TS]

  difficulty [TS]

  yeah but I can imagine you sitting at [TS]

  your computer are about to work and then [TS]

  let the thought comes into your head [TS]

  that you didn't put your toothbrush away [TS]

  and i can imagine you wouldn't be able [TS]

  to start working till you went and put [TS]

  your toothbrush in the right place [TS]

  because like the thought that maybe your [TS]

  toothbrushes too close to the toilet or [TS]

  you know has fallen onto a dirty surface [TS]

  I think he would not be able to work [TS]

  until you fix that and it's the same [TS]

  with maybe if a picture on the world [TS]

  like you are easily distractible and [TS]

  everyone's a bit like that but I think [TS]

  you're very like that but maybe I'm [TS]

  wrong maybe you could just crack on work [TS]

  knowing that your toothbrushes not be [TS]

  put away properly [TS]

  that's super funny because that to me [TS]

  falls into the leg OCD like behavior and [TS]

  I feel like I've never had that feeling [TS]

  of something is not right i need to go [TS]

  fix it now [TS]

  ok and so that's why I want the minimum [TS]

  number of things because there's few [TS]

  things to keep straight in the house the [TS]

  toothbrush thing it's on like it kind of [TS]

  drives my wife crazy that I tend to just [TS]

  leave the electronic toothbrush and the [TS]

  toothpaste in random locations around [TS]

  the house all the time because I sort of [TS]

  peace around when I'm brushing my teeth [TS]

  and then I don't pay attention when i'm [TS]

  done like with the toothbrush and just [TS]

  kind of put it down and leave it there [TS]

  and totally forget about it so that it's [TS]

  a perfect case of like it never even [TS]

  occurred to me to worry about like oh [TS]

  where is the toothbrush is it too close [TS]

  to the toilet what about those germs [TS]

  I'm surprised by that as interesting to [TS]

  know that you would just leave your [TS]

  toothbrush somewhere random I wouldn't [TS]

  have thought you would do that [TS]

  yeah there's something about it which [TS]

  slides below my threshold of recognizing [TS]

  it there's like a little bit of a habit [TS]

  of just walking around while I brush my [TS]

  teeth and then I just put it down and [TS]

  totally forget about where it is but [TS]

  speaking of objects and what to do with [TS]

  objects m lady you and I were going to [TS]

  have a bit of a problem on our hands [TS]

  because the hello internet YouTube [TS]

  channel has recently crossed a hundred [TS]

  thousand subscribers much to my [TS]

  amazement I still have a hard time [TS]

  believing how many people actually [TS]

  prefer to listen to the show on YouTube [TS]

  which is baffling to me but yes we have [TS]

  crossed a hundred thousand subscribers [TS]

  and as you know because you have done [TS]

  this many times with many channels when [TS]

  you cross a hundred thousand subscribers [TS]

  youtube sends you a trophy of sorts with [TS]

  their silver play button 400,000 how [TS]

  many of these do you have now breeding [TS]

  well i have six here are we even going [TS]

  to pretend there's like a debate to be [TS]

  had here like why are we even talking [TS]

  about this [TS]

  everyone who has source go past a [TS]

  hundred thousand knows what's going to [TS]

  happen you know what's going to happen [TS]

  I know what's gonna happen I know what's [TS]

  gonna happen is i would like this trophy [TS]

  for myself I feel like you have six [TS]

  trophies if I'm going to get any of the [TS]

  trophies [TS]

  this is the one that I want you want [TS]

  this one day [TS]

  yeah I want this one I want to put it [TS]

  above my mantle [TS]

  yeah I want to put it above the mantel [TS]

  yet so that i can look at this great [TS]

  accomplishment [TS]

  yeah of the internet YouTube channel [TS]

  which is this kind of Island related to [TS]

  the main project of the podcast i want [TS]

  this trophy I want to have it all right [TS]

  well I want to keep it i actually have [TS]

  just had one of my other channels [TS]

  morning my first channels nothing of [TS]

  science actually just passed 200 k [TS]

  congratulations [TS]

  numberphile to is on 97 k and [TS]

  objectivity is on 92 k so if people want [TS]

  to help me every team's wanna help me [TS]

  out [TS]

  go and subscribe to objectivity for [TS]

  God's sake of such a good channel needs [TS]

  more subscribers so if you want to [TS]

  subscribe to those i could potentially [TS]

  have another three anyway in the coming [TS]

  months I was hoping you'd give me the [TS]

  hello internet once i could have 10 mm [TS]

  that looks like I'm gonna have to be [TS]

  content with 9i think precisely because [TS]

  you wanted for number ten [TS]

  I'm going to receive it [TS]

  for my first it's a carefree era and my [TS]

  plan is I'm going to take a picture of [TS]

  it and then I'm going to throw it away [TS]

  they're not right impressive the silver [TS]

  buttons the gold buttons are impressive [TS]

  and I know you haven't got your gold [TS]

  button that you're entitled to but the [TS]

  gold buttons are very impressive but the [TS]

  silver buttons they seem a bit cheaper [TS]

  and that was nicely framed and their [TS]

  load smaller and move and they're still [TS]

  nice i don't have to do i guess but i [TS]

  don't think you'll be overly impressed [TS]

  fire to hear that YouTube Brady [TS]

  collector of silver play buttons not [TS]

  impressed [TS]

  yeah i guess they seem a bit boring when [TS]

  you start getting close to 10 but [TS]

  unremarkable they're still in their [TS]

  boxes and they're stored under a safer [TS]

  my place [TS]

  yeah I know ok ok so let me ask you if [TS]

  you have them in boxes on opens I'm [TS]

  doing is sofa [TS]

  why would you even want the hello [TS]

  Internet 100,000 i do still like the [TS]

  idea of putting them on a wall was a [TS]

  little collection I have loads of this [TS]

  frame stuff I haven't put on walls [TS]

  because I never actually get around [TS]

  I'm not very good at hanging things on [TS]

  wolves so I always worry i'll do it [TS]

  badly or especially trying to hang ten [TS]

  silver buttons [TS]

  how on earth am I going to get them all [TS]

  straight and lined up i know i'll do it [TS]

  crooked I'm so bad a handyman stuff [TS]

  they'll be all crooked and all over the [TS]

  place and they won't form a nice grid on [TS]

  the wall and it would drive me crazy so [TS]

  for that reason I never get around to it [TS]

  but i do like the idea of having old 10 [TS]

  one day like on a wall i think that [TS]

  could be quite nifty in an office or [TS]

  something [TS]

  yeah but you'd be sitting down at your [TS]

  computer trying to get to work and then [TS]

  you think are there not quite straight [TS]

  and then you leave up to fix it [TS]

  that would do my head in if I was [TS]

  looking at like really unstrained things [TS]

  on the world that's it's unacceptable [TS]

  well I know you going to let me have it [TS]

  so that you're so confident how do you [TS]

  know that i'm going to let you have [TS]

  maybe I'm serious what would you do if i [TS]

  was serious about this Brady I'd be [TS]

  really surprised you don't strike me as [TS]

  someone who would do something terrible [TS]

  to people you don't like it alone [TS]

  someone you kind of get along with say I [TS]

  just don't think you do it but you know [TS]

  i'm open to being surprised you know i'm [TS]

  probably putting fuel on the fire now [TS]

  being so sort of sure that you won't but [TS]

  well actually wonder like how would you [TS]

  tube resolve this because if YouTube is [TS]

  good at anything it's good at making [TS]

  sure everybody's happy all the time and [TS]

  so i presume that they only give out one [TS]

  button per channel [TS]

  yeah so i would love to know is what [TS]

  would happen if we both told youtube [TS]

  that we each one of the button i would [TS]

  like to test you tube system here at [TS]

  like to test YouTube's patients and see [TS]

  what happens if we each demand a button [TS]

  I think we should do it I think we [TS]

  should see what happens ask them to [TS]

  configure ticket [TS]

  yeah I think maybe maybe you have [TS]

  sufficient clout that do it but I think [TS]

  I probably why do you know what the [TS]

  thing is the breeding yeah I really [TS]

  don't want to do that because victory [TS]

  would just be defeat because as you know [TS]

  full well I cannot even pretend for the [TS]

  sake of the podcast that I actually want [TS]

  you can sue play button and if we made [TS]

  youtube send out to play buttons i would [TS]

  just feel like oh I really have to keep [TS]

  this but i just i have just received a [TS]

  bowling ball that will now have to [TS]

  travel with me for the rest of my life [TS]

  well victory would be defeat and it's [TS]

  not even a thing that I can pretend like [TS]

  i want to mess around with like someone [TS]

  at YouTube right now listening to the [TS]

  podcast is like getting ready to type an [TS]

  email to someone about sending off to [TS]

  like you know what I don't want that I [TS]

  can't even pretend to do I don't want to [TS]

  play button [TS]

  I'm very happy for you to have it well I [TS]

  mean there are other things that could [TS]

  be done here great i mean you could give [TS]

  me both and then you could take the [TS]

  light now I had 11 silver play button [TS]

  and how difficult it would be to display [TS]

  that would be pretty funny i did see [TS]

  someone suggests that we could note down [TS]

  the silver play button and cast it into [TS]

  the hello Internet medals of Honor [TS]

  oh yeah anything was meltdown about that [TS]

  would actually be an excellent idea but [TS]

  obviously that Victoria Crosses and made [TS]

  from like a melted down can and stuff [TS]

  like that so that will be quite a nice [TS]

  touch I didn't know that [TS]

  yeah i think it's a cannon from the one [TS]

  big lot of metal [TS]

  mm that's an interesting trivia fact and [TS]

  I I'm not checking it right now so if [TS]

  I've got it wrong i'm just going to take [TS]

  it something on the reddit that's just a [TS]

  fact [TS]

  just say it confidently people will go [TS]

  along with it they definitely made from [TS]

  the one source of metal from [TS]

  some war relic I mean I've actually [TS]

  encountered and not too dissimilar [TS]

  problem if I can have a little humble [TS]

  brag for a minute gray no please go [TS]

  ahead [TS]

  sixty symbols the physics channel has [TS]

  recently been awarded something called [TS]

  the Kelvin metal which is the institute [TS]

  of physics in the UK gives out like this [TS]

  metal each year for outreach and we [TS]

  wanted this year which is this huge [TS]

  honor and we look we're picking it up in [TS]

  december i think that some awards [TS]

  ceremony and congratulations thank you [TS]

  very much i thought you'd like it was [TS]

  called the Kelvin medal I know you love [TS]

  the name Lord Kelvin it's named after [TS]

  him [TS]

  very cool but the problem is this is the [TS]

  humble bad move that will only give it [TS]

  to three recipients the most much like [TS]

  the Nobel price you have to have three [TS]

  named people and obviously sixty symbols [TS]

  is this big ensemble cast so right the [TS]

  decision was taken that my name should [TS]

  be on it because I make all the videos [TS]

  so they thought well that's probably the [TS]

  one the easiest one decision right and [TS]

  then we've put to other of the [TS]

  scientists on the project's name in the [TS]

  submission so we could get at maximum [TS]

  three and we just sort of arbitrarily [TS]

  chose to who probably have done the most [TS]

  videos but then we have all these other [TS]

  scientists who have been involved in the [TS]

  project some of them done loads and [TS]

  loads of videos who are named but what [TS]

  we've done is we also get prize money i [TS]

  can't remember how much is so it's like [TS]

  a thousand pounds or something and we're [TS]

  going to use all the prize money to have [TS]

  replica medals made and we're going to [TS]

  give medals to everyone on the project [TS]

  so we kind of go around the problem that [TS]

  way the people who get the replicants [TS]

  will their medals just have their name [TS]

  on it [TS]

  where will you also stamp your name [TS]

  bring Aaron above their name on all of [TS]

  the replicas so that everybody [TS]

  understands have Brady gets the respect [TS]

  he deserves [TS]

  on every single metal is that was going [TS]

  to happen like here's your medal Joe [TS]

  right at the top it says Brady Aryan [TS]

  below it says professor Joe we could be [TS]

  even meaner and let make them true [TS]

  replicas and just have the medals with [TS]

  our three names on them and the middle [TS]

  they get given doesn't even have their [TS]

  name on it it's got the name of the [TS]

  other three people how are you going to [TS]

  do this pretty what is the plan is it [TS]

  just going to have their name on it or [TS]

  is it going to have there [TS]

  mad your name and I certainly hope as a [TS]

  good my name when I think good i am not [TS]

  actually responsible for this process [TS]

  ok i will happily take credit for [TS]

  suggesting it but i will not be involved [TS]

  in the execution of it so this will be a [TS]

  decision for other people but I think [TS]

  the best option by far away will be just [TS]

  to have the name of the recipient I [TS]

  think that's probably the best I don't [TS]

  even know if on the night when we get [TS]

  like the real medal at the ceremony [TS]

  whether we get three or we get one to [TS]

  share between us so I don't even know [TS]

  what's going to happen there it could be [TS]

  a real band far it's a real bunfight [TS]

  yeah [TS]

  15 that's like a tear I've never heard [TS]

  the term bunfight it's something my [TS]

  parents would say so that's why I [TS]

  realized I probably should have said it [TS]

  was it may 15 I don't think this is a [TS]

  real thing I think this is just a brady [TS]

  family term a bun fight is a sustained [TS]

  overblown argument about a petty matter [TS]

  so it sounds like just the sort of thing [TS]

  I get into it sounds like a hello [TS]

  Internet traffic record it does yeah [TS]

  sounds like every episode we've ever had [TS]

  yeah but our disagreements petty yes [TS]

  are they sustained over a long period of [TS]

  time in some cases years we should have [TS]

  called this hello been five today's [TS]

  sponsor is audible.com who has more than [TS]

  180,000 audiobooks and spoken word audio [TS]

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  today by going to audible.com / hello [TS]

  Internet [TS]

  I don't know about you but I've been [TS]

  watching a lot of narcos on Netflix I've [TS]

  been really enjoying it but the one [TS]

  thing that I always find frustrating [TS]

  with shows like this is I feel like they [TS]

  never really go into enough of the [TS]

  details of exactly how the business [TS]

  works i'll talk a little bit about how [TS]

  you try to smuggle drugs across the [TS]

  border or the difficulty of getting [TS]

  payments back across the border but [TS]

  never enough for me [TS]

  this led me to go looking around to see [TS]

  if there were any good books written on [TS]

  the business of drug dealing and i came [TS]

  across an economics how to run a drug [TS]

  cartel by tom Wainwright if you want to [TS]

  start a drug empire of your own i guess [TS]

  this would be the place to start [TS]

  they go through the personnel problems [TS]

  that you have [TS]

  as a drug dealer the difficulty of [TS]

  managing customer service over the [TS]

  internet when you're selling your drugs [TS]

  via the darker corners of that global [TS]

  network and a whole other bunch of [TS]

  details about how it is the drug cartels [TS]

  are run so check out the economics on [TS]

  audible.com along with their hundred [TS]

  thousand plus other things to listen to [TS]

  audibles where I get all of my audio [TS]

  books and you should too [TS]

  you can download your audiobook files [TS]

  you can listen on your phone using their [TS]

  player you can listen on your android [TS]

  device you can listen on your computer [TS]

  you can listen just about wherever you [TS]

  want if you're one of those people who [TS]

  uses a kindle you can actually get the [TS]

  audio book and the e-book and Amazon [TS]

  will synchronize both of them together [TS]

  which sounds quite nice [TS]

  it really is the place to go for [TS]

  audiobooks and I think audiobooks are a [TS]

  way that i can read much more than i [TS]

  would otherwise go check out audible [TS]

  check out and economics if that sounds [TS]

  interesting to you go to audible.com / [TS]

  hello Internet to get your free 30-day [TS]

  trial and to let audible know that you [TS]

  are supporting this podcast just for [TS]

  anybody who didn't know I feel [TS]

  responsible to break some celebrity news [TS]

  yeah which is that it seems the Brad [TS]

  Pitt and Angelina Jolie em are breaking [TS]

  up [TS]

  they're getting a divorce mm I feel the [TS]

  need to mention this mostly so that i [TS]

  can just recently defy the concept that [TS]

  I was right at the time in the quiz show [TS]

  that they were still married but they're [TS]

  getting a divorce and I found it an [TS]

  entertaining experience to be on the [TS]

  receiving end of a very large number of [TS]

  messages from strangers informing me [TS]

  that Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie were [TS]

  breaking up at that supports what's [TS]

  occurring and finding out like through [TS]

  my email inbox from random feedback from [TS]

  strangers on the internet who want to [TS]

  let me know that my answer to a quiz so [TS]

  question on the previous episode would [TS]

  no longer be the case going forward [TS]

  sorry Brad jolina it's all over isn't a [TS]

  brand jolina [TS]

  I don't know brangelina natalina branch [TS]

  I think you need the end in there i'm [TS]

  simply realizing this is never a word i [TS]

  have heard out loud i have only ever [TS]

  seen written Brangelina anything that's [TS]

  what it is [TS]

  whenever one of these stories gets like [TS]

  you know like BBC will do a breaking [TS]

  news alert [TS]

  Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie are going [TS]

  to divorce and some people will say how [TS]

  do you make that breaking news so [TS]

  trivial [TS]

  people are dying all over the world [TS]

  haven't you got better things to report [TS]

  this always happens right does it okay [TS]

  yeah i'll tell you what there was [TS]

  another big breaking story in the last [TS]

  week that was truly a big deal [TS]

  great do you know anything about the [TS]

  television show The Great British Bake [TS]

  Off [TS]

  I only know that it exists because it [TS]

  has this funny name [TS]

  I've heard people reference it i think [TS]

  maybe you have mentioned the existence [TS]

  of this to me before or somebody else [TS]

  has [TS]

  yeah so I know that there exists a show [TS]

  called the Great British Bake Off [TS]

  yeah but I know nothing else about it [TS]

  well I think that's been a big story [TS]

  this week and it has had many [TS]

  interesting components to it which if [TS]

  you did follow what you would find quite [TS]

  interesting but for those people who [TS]

  don't know which is which is anyone who [TS]

  probably was outside the UK just so you [TS]

  understand what the show is there's a [TS]

  big posh tent like a marquee in the [TS]

  grounds of like some big famous mansion [TS]

  in England and that's where their host [TS]

  this show and they've set up all these [TS]

  little many kitchens in that they've all [TS]

  got their own little kitchen bar and I [TS]

  can all see each other or something and [TS]

  I've got like ovens and mixes and things [TS]

  i think at the start there's something [TS]

  like 12 or more contestants and it's [TS]

  like a baking show it's a baking [TS]

  competition show and h we could be like [TS]

  bread week or pastry weekend things and [TS]

  they all have to do these challenges and [TS]

  they have to make their own recipes and [TS]

  it's a competition and it's really good [TS]

  fun and it's got these two hosts who are [TS]

  really funny these two women who [TS]

  deliberately make lots of corny puns and [TS]

  its kind of the tweet joke about and [TS]

  there are these two judges this I'll [TS]

  grumpy York sherman who is a expert on [TS]

  baking bread but he's also a bit of a [TS]

  silver fox [TS]

  so I think he's been a housewives a rip [TS]

  and this old lady you think she's in [TS]

  about 80 years old or something like [TS]

  that and she's like everybody's [TS]

  grandmother she's called Mary berry and [TS]

  she's like a celebrity chef for a [TS]

  million years in England and now she's [TS]

  this matriarch and these two other [TS]

  judges and they decide each week who [TS]

  goes home so it's the contest and [TS]

  everyone in the country gets gripped by [TS]

  who's going to go home this week and [TS]

  who's gonna win the bake-off this year [TS]

  ok so there is an elimination round each [TS]

  episode yeah someone's getting booted [TS]

  off the island who's it going to be [TS]

  exactly ok it's quite arbitrary just the [TS]

  judges decide but it's based on these [TS]

  three things they do throughout the [TS]

  episode and there's like a star Baker [TS]

  who wins for the week that means nothing [TS]

  except a little bit of glory and then [TS]

  one person gets booted off and then the [TS]

  last man or woman standing windsor I [TS]

  think it's been 10 6 or 7 series and [TS]

  it's just growing in popularity it's [TS]

  become a real institution and the media [TS]

  is obsessed with it and like they're [TS]

  always reporting on a market so-and-so [TS]

  got booted off this weekend you believe [TS]

  it up sometimes be on the front page of [TS]

  newspapers and I think what's really [TS]

  British about in some ways is I think [TS]

  the British people revel in the trivial [TS]

  and silver that but that's the scanner [TS]

  will be you know so-and-so took [TS]

  someone's legs by mistake and you know [TS]

  so and so's left something in the oven [TS]

  for too long and burn the cake and and [TS]

  it becomes this big national story and I [TS]

  think everyone's kind of in on the joke [TS]

  that was so obsessed with this baking [TS]

  competition is it a joke now I mean [TS]

  human politics seemed to be vicious [TS]

  directly in proportion to their [TS]

  pettiness many people seem to get the [TS]

  most upset over the tiniest things [TS]

  sometimes yeah although the thing is one [TS]

  of the things that's so good about the [TS]

  show it's important to set a BBC show [TS]

  it's made by production company but it's [TS]

  always been on the baby say and I think [TS]

  one of the things that makes the Great [TS]

  British Bake of different from other [TS]

  shows is there isn't a really pleasant [TS]

  streak running through it no one's ever [TS]

  angry anyone gets booted off they're [TS]

  always very gracious they always help [TS]

  each other the contestants when these [TS]

  scandals happen when someone you know [TS]

  take someone's thing out of the fridge [TS]

  early people never get angry at each [TS]

  other it's like it's really good [TS]

  spirited it's just in a cynical world of [TS]

  evil is this like bastion of like [TS]

  Isis it's just nice in a tent where [TS]

  everyone's baking cakes [TS]

  it's always pretty and even when someone [TS]

  burns their cake maryberry the old [TS]

  granny or tell them they tried hard and [TS]

  like it's just this lovely thing right [TS]

  ok it's huge at the moment and like 10 [TS]

  11 million people are watching our awake [TS]

  and what happened this week was the [TS]

  production company that made a are [TS]

  obviously pretty Grady had been trying [TS]

  to extract every last cent out of the [TS]

  baby say and they just wanted too much [TS]

  money for the show and the BBC what [TS]

  we're not buying that and everyone [TS]

  obviously wants this show so one of the [TS]

  commercial television stations in the UK [TS]

  channel 4 have swooped and paid some [TS]

  ridiculous amount of money like 75 [TS]

  million pounds for the show Luo so the [TS]

  next series of that next year's gonna be [TS]

  on channel 4 and this was a huge story [TS]

  because the baby see you know is an [TS]

  institution obviously and this is one of [TS]

  their key shows and have lost this show [TS]

  it's been stolen and there's huge [TS]

  amounts of money involved and everyone [TS]

  was like how can you believe it you know [TS]

  it's leaving the baby say sounds like [TS]

  the BBC always loses their big shows the [TS]

  this happened with top here by [TS]

  remembering that even remotely correctly [TS]

  was top gear BBC yes that's for [TS]

  different reasons but it is true the [TS]

  baby sometimes do lose their stars [TS]

  because they get poached off but that's [TS]

  why this is so interesting because i [TS]

  always think when the BBC makes someone [TS]

  really famous like a news presenter or a [TS]

  TV presenter and they very often get [TS]

  paged by the corporate channels right [TS]

  that can get off of them bigger salaries [TS]

  and then they kind of just sort of [TS]

  disappear because the baby say while not [TS]

  being able to pay you quite as much has [TS]

  all the profile it has all the reach it [TS]

  has the market penetration and it's what [TS]

  makes you famous [TS]

  so it's interesting how often people [TS]

  become famous on the BBC think they're [TS]

  Charlie big potatoes go over to a [TS]

  commercial Network and then they just [TS]

  disappear into nothingness because the [TS]

  BBC's not making them famous anymore so [TS]

  everyone's like what's going to happen [TS]

  to the Great British Bake Off and it [TS]

  goes channel 4 is it still going to be [TS]

  as nice and good or is now going to be [TS]

  commercials and there was going to be [TS]

  trying to sell you products all the time [TS]

  and blue is it going to lose its magic [TS]

  right so I know this is gripping boy [TS]

  so anyway the next day the two hosts who [TS]

  are really funny and really make the [TS]

  show huh [TS]

  these two comedians I mentioned record [TS]

  melon so they announced publicly we're [TS]

  not going to chase the dough they said [TS]

  to use a patent good and they said we're [TS]

  not going we're going to stay at the BBC [TS]

  we're not going to be on the show [TS]

  anymore and everyone's like oh my [TS]

  goodness this is amazing what with a [TS]

  bake-off be like without the host [TS]

  anymore can't believe this happened and [TS]

  then the next day unbelievably maryberry [TS]

  the old grandmother of cooking also says [TS]

  I'm not going either [TS]

  my loyalties to the BBC the BBC made [TS]

  this show what is I wish everyone luck [TS]

  and have fun but i'm not going to [TS]

  channel for either so all of a sudden [TS]

  channel 4 has paid like you know 75 [TS]

  million pounds basically for one judge [TS]

  and a tent in a go ahead and and they've [TS]

  lost or left stars of the show and now [TS]

  everyone's thinking well is she gonna be [TS]

  any good but now there's all this [TS]

  intellectual property stuff going on and [TS]

  everyone saying maybe the BBC gonna make [TS]

  their own baking show you just keep all [TS]

  the same hosts and it makes you wonder [TS]

  what channel 4 of bored [TS]

  this is the strange thing with the world [TS]

  of companies acquiring things for talent [TS]

  for talented people [TS]

  yeah if you're buying the show but this [TS]

  old granny she's not going your silver [TS]

  fox guy isn't going no silver foxes [TS]

  going he's the one he is chasing the [TS]

  dough [TS]

  okay well yeah that's because he's a [TS]

  smart silver fox right there that's why [TS]

  his name is Paul Hollywood tell you what [TS]

  you love that it's yeah it's also it's [TS]

  so I'm British I know that's not real [TS]

  that's like an actor's guild name that [TS]

  can't be real living out his actual name [TS]

  my name is max power think no it's not [TS]

  but it's an interesting question about [TS]

  like what have you bought what is a show [TS]

  how do you transfer it from one location [TS]

  to another [TS]

  who are the key players in this like how [TS]

  do you get the loyalty of the people of [TS]

  necessary to make the thing [TS]

  work i often those with TV shows in [TS]

  general like everybody knows this [TS]

  experience that you're watching a TV [TS]

  show in the first two seasons are [TS]

  amazing and then the next couple sees [TS]

  anything like I really just lost all of [TS]

  its don't like what happened with this [TS]

  isn't so good anymore and it every time [TS]

  I've ever investigated you find that [TS]

  it's like a couple of key people have [TS]

  left em and I am absolutely convinced [TS]

  and I have this theory that almost any [TS]

  kind of media production like a TV show [TS]

  or like a movie is much much more [TS]

  dependent on a handful like maybe three [TS]

  or four key people than you think it is [TS]

  that like one or two writers make all of [TS]

  the difference in the show being really [TS]

  good or not being really good yeah just [TS]

  like a couple of key people on a movie [TS]

  are what makes the difference between [TS]

  like why is this movie amazing and this [TS]

  movie isn't there like a talent [TS]

  disproportionate here if I was like a [TS]

  network buying a TV show I feel like [TS]

  that would be one of my primary concerns [TS]

  is trying to isolate something like the [TS]

  Great British Bake Off and from the [TS]

  outside trying to figure out like who [TS]

  were the actual vital people and we have [TS]

  to make sure that they're on board and [TS]

  that they're coming along and it sounds [TS]

  like these two hosts were part of like [TS]

  the charm of the show and like oh now by [TS]

  trying to buy this thing you have broken [TS]

  this thing you've split these two key [TS]

  hosts and maybe now everybody loses like [TS]

  you've spent all this money for this [TS]

  show and the BBC is also going to lose [TS]

  because they've lost half of their vital [TS]

  crew and now everybody sad and everybody [TS]

  loses [TS]

  i mean i won't go into all the details [TS]

  because it's full of intrigue and [TS]

  there's a lot of intrigue about the [TS]

  rights and formats and things like that [TS]

  but it's been it's been a huge story but [TS]

  coming back just quickly to breaking [TS]

  news and alerts and things there was a [TS]

  breaking news story when Mary berry [TS]

  they'll grandmarc wit it was like a [TS]

  breaking news on Twitter BBC Mary very [TS]

  quits the great british bake on and also [TS]

  a few tweets and people saying I can't [TS]

  believe that's breaking news like some [TS]

  old lady quits hosting a TV show who but [TS]

  I tell you what that's the first story [TS]

  that's broken in weeks and weeks that [TS]

  the mid [TS]

  isaura i followed by wife immediately [TS]

  I'm like you're looking about you but [TS]

  you're not gonna believe what happened [TS]

  very very quickly the back of like I'm [TS]

  not bringing her upside you know what's [TS]

  happening in politics or wars around the [TS]

  world or lack disasters are a plane [TS]

  crashes or anything it's like oh my [TS]

  goodness I've got to tell my wife [TS]

  immediately like this is huge and do you [TS]

  want to know why you bring your wife to [TS]

  tell her immediately that the woman has [TS]

  left the Great British Bake Off because [TS]

  unlike most of the things in the world [TS]

  that the news reports on the supposed [TS]

  important things this one directly [TS]

  affects you every week if it messes up [TS]

  with the TV show that you like right [TS]

  like some genocide in Africa like [TS]

  whatever it's not going to affect me [TS]

  today [TS]

  this is why you can brush it under the [TS]

  rug and be like whatever tragedies [TS]

  around the world like oh there was an [TS]

  earthquake in some third-world country [TS]

  and thousands are dead like how am I [TS]

  going to tell anybody about it i'm going [TS]

  to call anybody now not really like put [TS]

  the Great British Bake Off this actually [TS]

  affects you in a way every single week [TS]

  if your show is ruined so that's why you [TS]

  call this is what's happening here it's [TS]

  is the dynamic of what is important in [TS]

  the world versus what actually affects [TS]

  you in a way that you care [TS]

  yeah i'll tell you what else like it [TS]

  does make me think it is interesting how [TS]

  this touches on our world of you know [TS]

  video making and podcasting and things [TS]

  like that because if you decided [TS]

  tomorrow that you'd had enough of making [TS]

  YouTube videos and you want to pick that [TS]

  up and you decided I k well I've created [TS]

  this like brand and this channel and [TS]

  this cool thing you couldn't do a thing [TS]

  with it you couldn't so cgpgrey the [TS]

  channel pudgy and walk away from her [TS]

  because it has no worth without you so I [TS]

  mean what could you do with that [TS]

  not much not get your computer so the [TS]

  rights to the back catalogue and stuff [TS]

  and that's it's true [TS]

  from a business perspective it's a [TS]

  terrible decision i can't sell the thing [TS]

  because i am the key person in my own [TS]

  organization [TS]

  yeah it has my name on it there's [TS]

  nothing to sell here you have channels [TS]

  to spare coming out of your pocket that [TS]

  you could sell off to organizations ya [TS]

  self numberphile tomorrow and period [TS]

  videos next wing and yeah yeah and just [TS]

  keep growing more channels [TS]

  the hundred thousand subscribers here a [TS]

  hundred thousand subscribers their sell [TS]

  them off here i am just like an idiot [TS]

  artistically crafting individual videos [TS]

  into anything that is ultimately not a [TS]

  sellable business not a fool I am [TS]

  artisanal crafting videos listen to it [TS]

  I can't believe channel 4 agreed to by [TS]

  the show before now for the people were [TS]

  locked in place [TS]

  I mean they're not idiots they must have [TS]

  known that this was there taking a blow [TS]

  up in their face but it seems like [TS]

  obviously see the value in it without [TS]

  having the people locked in i'm sure [TS]

  they made this decision but to outsiders [TS]

  it seems crazy it seems like they bought [TS]

  the thing and then they realized they [TS]

  haven't got what they thought they got [TS]

  but i'm sure they still think us worth [TS]

  having the brand and the name and or [TS]

  perhaps they simply overvalued how [TS]

  convincing money is to an 80 year old [TS]

  granny [TS]

  yeah maybe they just assume let go of [TS]

  course she'll go for the paycheck but if [TS]

  you're an 80 year old granny I think [TS]

  maybe you have a more ability just to [TS]

  say now like i do this thing is of [TS]

  course it shouldn't have seen if she was [TS]

  going to sign on the line first but [TS]

  before buying the whole thing I'm saying [TS]

  it I'm just speculating [TS]

  yeah sama sama i'm thinking maybe people [TS]

  who think in terms of money would think [TS]

  that it is much more convincing that [TS]

  actually would be like who's gonna turn [TS]

  down his crazy salary [TS]

  yea marry barry is the one who's going [TS]

  to turn down the salary yeah that's how [TS]

  that goes [TS]

  yep get breaking news has to be about [TS]

  the things that people actually care [TS]

  about the threats that makes it breaking [TS]

  news like you have people care about [TS]

  celebrity divorces and British Bake [TS]

  off's backblaze is the unlimited native [TS]

  backup solution for Macs and PCs for no [TS]

  credit card required no risk-free 15-day [TS]

  trial go to back plays dot-com / hello [TS]

  internet now I think it's been a [TS]

  tradition that guy and I are the good [TS]

  cop and bad cop of these backblaze [TS]

  sponsorship messages great fuse you with [TS]

  fear that your computer now your whole [TS]

  house is about to be lost to a huge [TS]

  inferno and backblaze will save your did [TS]

  little bacon and that is definitely [TS]

  something you should bear in mind but [TS]

  back plays is handy not just for those [TS]

  worst-case scenarios for example it's [TS]

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  online backup from your mobile device [TS]

  so say there's a file you want to get [TS]

  your hands on but you don't have [TS]

  computer access back plays is the answer [TS]

  now back plays now has over i think 250 [TS]

  petabytes of people's data locked safely [TS]

  away just in case i have no idea how [TS]

  much that is but it sounds like a lot [TS]

  they have also already sent over 15 [TS]

  billion files back to customers who need [TS]

  them after something went wrong you [TS]

  could be one of those people so keep [TS]

  that in mind and a reminder these are [TS]

  external off-site backups not something [TS]

  like a hard drive or time machine which [TS]

  is also in you're so vulnerable house [TS]

  now there are no gimmicks and no [TS]

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  / hello internet so there now you came [TS]

  from here and continue to support the [TS]

  show and remember there's a 15 day free [TS]

  trial first try before you buy see how [TS]

  you like it and then you can commit as [TS]

  always thanks to back plays for not only [TS]

  backing up my computer but for [TS]

  supporting hello Internet great [TS]

  communication quick view pictures we can [TS]

  maybe let's see if it makes the cut [TS]

  we're going to have a little same to [TS]

  this one is Fisk one that the viewers [TS]

  can will not use their listeners but [TS]

  they're about to become viewers if they [TS]

  choose to [TS]

  they might be viewers if they're on the [TS]

  hello internet YouTube that's true [TS]

  that's true for all of our viewers are [TS]

  ya confusing confusing people as so [TS]

  multimedia world we live in [TS]

  we're going to put these pictures in the [TS]

  show notes the first one gray you [TS]

  haven't sane okay and i just think this [TS]

  was just fun i thought i'm gonna send [TS]

  this to this has come from someone [TS]

  called Adam he's in a group photo here [TS]

  some visits it's the international [TS]

  center for Theoretical Physics they had [TS]

  a big group photo at their eighth [TS]

  international conference on the exactly [TS]

  normalization group which sounds awesome [TS]

  it was held in Italy this huge photo and [TS]

  he proudly says I decided to wear my [TS]

  reunion swamp an official bird of hello [TS]

  internet t-shirt for the group photo and [TS]

  I just think it's fun to look at the [TS]

  photo and see if you can find that [TS]

  because it's a huge group of people and [TS]

  one person there is wearing a reunion [TS]

  swamp ENT shit have you found it yet [TS]

  great i'm looking and looking don't give [TS]

  it away when you find it ok you know why [TS]

  when you find that all know why when i [TS]

  find it huh [TS]

  ok looking looking looking not as easy [TS]

  as you thought hey when sao i think it's [TS]

  going to be easy [TS]

  I never said that did I say you said it [TS]

  I said you thought it [TS]

  no I didn't say you said it but I didn't [TS]

  think it sent me a picture of a whole [TS]

  bunch of people never even thought it [TS]

  all right never even thought I think [TS]

  there is nobody wearing every Union [TS]

  swamp had t-shirts in this photo [TS]

  nobody's wearing your uniform been I you [TS]

  are wrong [TS]

  someone is and there is the way as [TS]

  worldly challenge can you find the [TS]

  person wearing the reunion Swamp man [TS]

  t-shirt there is a twist to it [TS]

  ya figure there's a twist the twist is [TS]

  proving beyond my capabilities right now [TS]

  you want me to tell you and you can kind [TS]

  of that [TS]

  yeah you tell me to shut up haha i could [TS]

  have spent a hundred years looking at [TS]

  this photo and I would have never seen [TS]

  that there you go [TS]

  so here's the other one which you have [TS]

  seen and again can you find the hello [TS]

  Internet fan or yes you can this time [TS]

  but it still has a sort of Where's Wally [TS]

  component to it because the fan is so [TS]

  small in such a big picture but I'll [TS]

  read you the message that goes with this [TS]

  is a nice message dear dr. heron say [TS]

  people are learning i'm a big fan of the [TS]

  hoi podcast and I know that you love [TS]

  mountains so i made a special picture [TS]

  while I was hiking in Norway this place [TS]

  is called trolltunga which means a ton [TS]

  of a trial [TS]

  it's a piece of rock jutting [TS]

  horizontally out of a mountain about 700 [TS]

  meters above the lake i had to stay in [TS]

  the mountains overnight in order to be [TS]

  there in early morning normally the [TS]

  height x 10 to 12 hours i hope you and [TS]

  maybe gray will like it [TS]

  best regards stand that is a fantastic [TS]

  photo it's amazing isn't it [TS]

  it's a really epic hello Internet [TS]

  someone brought the flag to an amazing [TS]

  location photo in no small part because [TS]

  i am incredibly biased towards the [TS]

  particular beauty of Norway I think [TS]

  normally looks amazing and this photo of [TS]

  being in the mountains holding up the [TS]

  flag with the reflection in the water [TS]

  below is fantastic [TS]

  this makes me so happy to see the hello [TS]

  Internet flag in a stunning location so [TS]

  well done on this one this is absolutely [TS]

  great [TS]

  it's amazing for people who have not [TS]

  saying I mean look at the picture in the [TS]

  show notes but also just going to put [TS]

  more pictures of this trial hunger [TS]

  it's an amazing place that even if it [TS]

  didn't have this ridiculous pace of rock [TS]

  jutting out on this unnatural angle the [TS]

  view is just incredible of a leg below [TS]

  and mountains and greenery and snow and [TS]

  it slices [TS]

  it's incredible but i have since been [TS]

  reading a little bit more about [TS]

  trolltunga and some people got in touch [TS]

  after i tweeted a picture of this mid [TS]

  wake parents becoming of a controversial [TS]

  place for sort of safety reasons because [TS]

  more and more people are trying to get [TS]

  to it's not easy to get to but more and [TS]

  more people are going there and taking [TS]

  photos [TS]

  it doesn't look like the world's safest [TS]

  place to stand and in fact I was just [TS]

  reading that recently a tourist or not [TS]

  tourists i think it was an exchange [TS]

  student from australia was on the trail [TS]

  tunga asking to have their photo taken [TS]

  and stepped backward didn't look what [TS]

  they were doing while they were having [TS]

  their picture taken and fell offer that [TS]

  didn't end well obviously but they can't [TS]

  put safety rails on it so whether we [TS]

  should be encouraging people with this [TS]

  photo is probably questionable to but [TS]

  I'd certainly go there would you go and [TS]

  stand there in every picture taken [TS]

  I don't know that kind of thing makes me [TS]

  a little bit nervous I'm it does look [TS]

  perilous doesn't happen [TS]

  yeah it looks absolutely perilous i [TS]

  don't know i think if i was there on the [TS]

  day i might not go very far out on the [TS]

  troll tongue there but people are always [TS]

  going to risk their lives for this kind [TS]

  of stuff and it looks like an awesomely [TS]

  beautiful place to risk your life if [TS]

  you're gonna do this and so you would go [TS]

  out to the tip of the tongue but maybe [TS]

  you just go partway like to the middle [TS]

  of something the am i might go part way [TS]

  but look at something like that and [TS]

  think it's gonna break some day and or [TS]

  might be quite windy right but i'm sure [TS]

  you Brady would just crawl out right to [TS]

  the edge wouldn't you be on the edge [TS]

  I don't know I I am cautious with hearts [TS]

  but i remember when i was in the [TS]

  forbidden kingdom of it [TS]

  and we walked up to a place called [TS]

  Tiger's Nest monastery which is this [TS]

  incredible monastery perched why up on a [TS]

  cliff and I saw big long walk along all [TS]

  these rocky paths along the cliff and we [TS]

  stopped at one point where lots and lots [TS]

  of people take photos because it's [TS]

  amazing you're looking from 1click [TS]

  across to the other and our guards that [TS]

  are you know what was actually just a [TS]

  few weeks ago a tourist from Thailand [TS]

  was having their photo taken right where [TS]

  you are but they leaned against the [TS]

  wooden hand rail which they shouldn't [TS]

  have done and the handrail gave way and [TS]

  they just went right off the cliff all [TS]

  the way to the bottom and when I was [TS]

  told that story affected me like you [TS]

  know when you're standing at the place [TS]

  where it happened and look at your total [TS]

  few weeks ago someone fell down there [TS]

  suddenly you're like gosh [TS]

  and then every time you have a photo [TS]

  taken your like setting your fate and [TS]

  making sure you stand the right place [TS]

  and it's so easy when you're taking [TS]

  photos to do something stupid [TS]

  yeah especially because you're so often [TS]

  looking away from the data right yeah if [TS]

  you drive back up to get into frame and [TS]

  what's over you go especially seeing [TS]

  Stan was holding this flag when you had [TS]

  that picture taken like a big sail so [TS]

  i'm not sure how wise that was but he [TS]

  lived to send the email say [TS]

  remember I told you about this is [TS]

  company that every three months or every [TS]

  six months sends me this bill 42 pounds [TS]

  for this ground rent or something where [TS]

  i live in this house [TS]

  so anyway I got my latest invoice from [TS]

  them two pounds which I have to pee [TS]

  every six months just to live in my [TS]

  house because of some out [TS]

  eighteen-hundreds law right right i [TS]

  resent it but i have to do it so we [TS]

  wrote the check this morning and i'm [TS]

  about to send it off but what I did was [TS]

  I put it in an envelope and then I [TS]

  followed the envelope in half three or [TS]

  four times and then wrapped all the [TS]

  sticky tape around it and then I put it [TS]

  in like another envelope and I wrapped [TS]

  in all this packing tape and things like [TS]

  that and that I put in a third envelope [TS]

  already take that up because if they're [TS]

  going to get their two-pound check off [TS]

  me like I want them to work for I wanted [TS]

  to do two pounds of work to get to it so [TS]

  i have created this big like pass the [TS]

  parcel taped-up thing if they will get [TS]

  want to get their check [TS]

  I don't know I was just like in a half [TS]

  funny half weird mode and I did and I've [TS]

  got it on my desk now I'm thinking [TS]

  you know which would be ironic if i [TS]

  decide not to do it because then I'm [TS]

  going to be the one that has to dig into [TS]

  an underwater these envelopes and cut [TS]

  all the tape and everything ok [TS]

  I mean this there's so many things i [TS]

  really don't even know where to begin [TS]

  ok let me send your picture part of okay [TS]

  you're gonna make me feel bad now I and [TS]

  now I can just tell from your tone [TS]

  it's like you're not angry maybe you're [TS]

  disappointed i think what the thing i [TS]

  sent you is one of the envelopes going [TS]

  into one of the other envelopes [TS]

  okay you're disappointed in me I ok so I [TS]

  feel like I want to walk you through a [TS]

  few things here Brady now how to think [TS]

  about the world and i guess for [TS]

  listeners who don't remember the details [TS]

  this was just because there's some [TS]

  company which collects up a bunch of old [TS]

  title deeds and land deeds like this is [TS]

  their entire business having people pay [TS]

  them small amounts of money from [TS]

  contractor like 200 years old on some [TS]

  technicality and so Brady has to pay [TS]

  this little fee two pounds every six [TS]

  months or whatever was because of some [TS]

  land deal from 300 here is ya up so this [TS]

  is love the UK for this guy's stuff yeah [TS]

  so first of all let me say that I can [TS]

  sympathize with your frustration about [TS]

  the situation [TS]

  ok I too would find it very frustrating [TS]

  to be in this situation [TS]

  okay okay right so I like we're on the [TS]

  same page here [TS]

  I can however when I don't understand is [TS]

  why on earth would you take more of your [TS]

  time to cause essentially a trivial [TS]

  amount of frustration to whatever [TS]

  company is in charge of doing this sort [TS]

  of stuff em like you have changed the [TS]

  situation from Annoying company for from [TS]

  old technicality is getting two pounds [TS]

  off of me to company is getting two [TS]

  pounds off of me and they're costing me [TS]

  whatever it is 20 minutes of my life [TS]

  more than is necessary and she was [TS]

  sitting there folding of the check [TS]

  scratch you didn't envelope i could see [TS]

  wrapping it in this brown tape you're [TS]

  going to stick it in another envelope [TS]

  I mean I hate to say this Brady but this [TS]

  actually looks really ineffective like [TS]

  how long do you think it's going to take [TS]

  someone with a pair of scissors to get [TS]

  through this envelope i think five [TS]

  seconds right stuff wasn't thinking [TS]

  clicking scissors i would just cut open [TS]

  the top there's no way you even caused [TS]

  real inconvenience here this to me is [TS]

  like pointless human frustration [TS]

  manifested i know i say i've thought [TS]

  about that great because the final [TS]

  envelope is folded several times and [TS]

  then taped so if you just cut it you [TS]

  will also cut the check so you have to [TS]

  be careful how you open the envelope [TS]

  right buddy but here's the thing if they [TS]

  cut the check out what do they care [TS]

  the check is just null and void and [TS]

  they'll just kill you again right [TS]

  Thank I guess what I'm trying to walk [TS]

  through here is like what's your endgame [TS]

  here Brady what change do you wish to [TS]

  effect in the world right [TS]

  it was cathartic did you feel better [TS]

  after doing this [TS]

  yes yeah you feel better ya doing it but [TS]

  now I don't because now you're making me [TS]

  feel bad about it i was sitting there [TS]

  checking away from myself thinking how [TS]

  hard this show and her you know thinking [TS]

  this is fun and you know it was like a [TS]

  little fun thing for a few minutes and [TS]

  still when I think about a brady sitting [TS]

  down at his desk receiving a bill for [TS]

  two pounds and instead of just writing [TS]

  out the check and sending it off [TS]

  gathering together tape and envelopes [TS]

  and thinking about how to fold it in [TS]

  such a way to be frustrating to the [TS]

  person who's receiving it [TS]

  i know i have no other way to describe [TS]

  this then what is in my mind which is [TS]

  like this is just childish venting [TS]

  that's what that's what it feels like it [TS]

  just feels like you're a little kid who [TS]

  is pointlessly flailing against the [TS]

  system you should just pay the two [TS]

  pounds you know if it makes you happy [TS]

  braiding I can't argue against that I [TS]

  mean I can't totally disagree with you [TS]

  but I mean I see it as being akin to the [TS]

  people who like respond to spare but [TS]

  emails now I get spammed to string the [TS]

  Milan away some of their time [TS]

  mhm and that also is pointless and [TS]

  childish but let's just something [TS]

  sometimes people do not i think i'm [TS]

  doing the snail mail equivalent of that [TS]

  like they've automated their frustration [TS]

  process they've obviously got this [TS]

  printer that's a thousand years old that [TS]

  Prince these things and online [TS]

  tricks and you send it to some post box [TS]

  and you know they're impossible to speak [TS]

  with and so they're obviously just this [TS]

  got this lumbering frustration machine [TS]

  where they've just minimizing all of [TS]

  their costs and effort to make this [TS]

  money so I'm like well if you're gonna [TS]

  do that if you're going to minimize all [TS]

  of your effort to take my money i'm [TS]

  going to try and make you at least up [TS]

  here for a little bit lazy bones is I [TS]

  don't stupid and when I like with a big [TS]

  smile on my face went downstairs and [TS]

  shared my wife what I did and so the [TS]

  woman nice that's when I knew it was [TS]

  stupid as well that was gonna ask how I [TS]

  was gonna see if it's just like I just [TS]

  don't think she had the energy to even [TS]

  like comment she was just like rolled [TS]

  her eyes and I enjoy that scene in my [TS]

  mind where your wife thinks you have [TS]

  been upstairs busy doing something [TS]

  productive [TS]

  he come to an intersection back its [TS]

  check your water it up taped up on but [TS]

  to give out liner frustration to a [TS]

  company that you need to pay two pounds [TS]

  to the light out [TS]

  is this what you do all day it is that [TS]

  you're doing something useful know Brady [TS]

  causing pointless frustration to others [TS]

  so here's the question right I kind of [TS]

  realize now that I've made a mistake [TS]

  wrap okay but I've already done right [TS]

  I've done is sealed it's addressed [TS]

  should i go to the trouble of opening [TS]

  all my self extracting the check and [TS]

  just sending it in a normal envelope [TS]

  when you said this before why don't you [TS]

  just throw it away and write a new check [TS]

  if you're going to do that and that's [TS]

  true that's true [TS]

  you get it cause yourself father [TS]

  frustrate harder because this little [TS]

  piece of pipe no greatest and there's [TS]

  another the second piece of paper you [TS]

  have to attach with the check that it [TS]

  comes with their know who the checks [TS]

  from so i would have to open it to get [TS]

  that second piece of paper so i can't [TS]

  just throw it away with the check and [TS]

  write another check [TS]

  I you just have to send it now Brady you [TS]

  just have to send it i would be willing [TS]

  to bet you one pound em that you will [TS]

  simply just receive another bill from [TS]

  this company right they're going to get [TS]

  this envelope just throw it away and [TS]

  then later in their system six months [TS]

  down the line they're gonna send you a [TS]

  bill for four pounds that's what's going [TS]

  to happen [TS]

  that's my bet no one's even going to [TS]

  open this envelope I'm just trying to do [TS]

  the math in my head to see whether it's [TS]

  worth taking that bet and what they're [TS]

  all the implications will be because [TS]

  then I'd have to pay five pounds if I [TS]

  lose the bet if i win the bet you pay [TS]

  half of my next to pants can I get back [TS]

  to you on that [TS]

  okay you let me know if you spend 30 [TS]

  minutes working out the odds of whether [TS]

  or not it makes sense to accept this [TS]

  one-pound bet you go right ahead and [TS]

  then I will be happy to accept or reject [TS]

  based on whatever you want to do buddy [TS]

  you have another fruitful 30 minutes of [TS]

  doing something for a trivial amount of [TS]

  money if not everything is about money [TS]

  they're not everything is about time too [TS]

  many sometimes you do something just [TS]

  because you do it like not everything [TS]

  can have like a cost-benefit analysis [TS]

  attached to it I think everything has a [TS]

  cost benefit analysis attached to it [TS]

  this episode of Hello internet is [TS]

  brought to you in part by Harry's [TS]

  Harry's is the place to go online to buy [TS]

  your shaving equipment Harry's is so [TS]

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  to that and Harry's is going to give [TS]

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  eh I at checkout this shave balm is one [TS]

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  that you can get what you're going to [TS]

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  Arry is they have a big banner there [TS]

  which asks if you want to start your [TS]

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  this is going to get you the trial set [TS]

  which includes their Truman a razor with [TS]

  a blade their foaming shave gel and [TS]

  blade cover and this is going to last [TS]

  you about two weeks plus you get to [TS]

  choose what color you're great-looking [TS]

  Harry's razor is going to be olive green [TS]

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  just make sure to use the offer code to [TS]

  get that special bonus of their post [TS]

  shave balm if you're out there and you [TS]

  want a great shave with great-looking [TS]

  high-quality equipment at a great price [TS]

  that also you don't have to leave the [TS]

  house for Harry's is totally for you [TS]

  so right now if you need a shave if [TS]

  you're looking a bit scruffy if you put [TS]

  your hand on your neck and you can feel [TS]

  that you need a good shave go to Harry's [TS]

  dot-com you have nothing to lose [TS]

  just cover the cost of shipping and you [TS]

  get to try their free starter set plus [TS]

  you get the shave balm use offer code [TS]

  eh I at checkout and look great thanks [TS]

  to harry's for supporting the show [TS]

  tell me about YouTube heroes it seems [TS]

  like we can go between two podcasts [TS]

  without YouTube coming up with another [TS]

  hairbrained scheme upsets everyone and [TS]

  this YouTube heroes thing has been the [TS]

  latest kerfuffle to me filling up my [TS]

  favorite the last couple of weeks I've [TS]

  been pretty busy with my work and I [TS]

  haven't really dipped into these things [TS]

  but I know about this thing called [TS]

  YouTube heroes and my understanding of [TS]

  it is like people can flag content and [TS]

  they're going to give these people [TS]

  powers they shouldn't have to ruin their [TS]

  careers and can you talk me through it [TS]

  gray can you give me the idiots guard [TS]

  yes well that's a sigh I'm settling back [TS]

  at i'm leaning back tell me all about it [TS]

  yeah youtube heroes I mean first of all [TS]

  i have to say how much i absolutely love [TS]

  that name [TS]

  it's a fantastic program [TS]

  yeah you two heroes doesn't make me [TS]

  cringe in any way that doesn't make me [TS]

  feel like it's overblown in the [TS]

  slightest it inspires me [TS]

  do you feel inspired by braiding day I [TS]

  want to be a youtube here would you like [TS]

  to be a hero at Howdy's silver buttons [TS]

  does when required to become an Aug be [TS]

  right i don't know maybe 10 maybe ten [TS]

  maybe ten i don't know i don't know any [TS]

  of this stuff you've got to tell me [TS]

  ok so naff night [TS]

  obviously yeah obviously an F name and [TS]

  if i was going to rename it just to show [TS]

  my hand at the beginning of this i [TS]

  propose to alternative names for the [TS]

  YouTube Heroes program [TS]

  yep it should be either called YouTube [TS]

  tools or YouTube whole monitors ok this [TS]

  is the way I feel about this [TS]

  ok that's like pre fits yeah okay so [TS]

  what YouTube is that rolled out just [TS]

  earlier this week as we are recording is [TS]

  earlier this week as we are recording is [TS]

  essentially a kind of moderation program [TS]

  that they're implementing and so they [TS]

  put up this little youtube video with [TS]

  happy music and little cartoon [TS]

  characters try to explain this program [TS]

  whereby which some YouTube users can [TS]

  apply to become a hero and what a hero [TS]

  can do is a hero has abilities to flag [TS]

  videos and to moderate content in some [TS]

  ambiguous not clearly defined way and to [TS]

  add subtitles to youtube videos these [TS]

  seem to be the primary things but what [TS]

  everybody kind of flipped out about is [TS]

  this notion that there's some level of [TS]

  people that have the ability to flag [TS]

  what was originally labeled as like [TS]

  inappropriate content on YouTube but [TS]

  great anyone can flag videos a flag with [TS]

  extra power presumably like their [TS]

  flagging means it gets pulled down all [TS]

  yes this is what I think caused a bunch [TS]

  of the confusion because exactly this [TS]

  will give you log onto YouTube right now [TS]

  and and you go to any video there's a [TS]

  little button to report it as [TS]

  inappropriate content like this is [TS]

  already a thing that you can just do [TS]

  anybody can do this [TS]

  yeah and that doesn't mean it's going to [TS]

  get ripped down it just means if a [TS]

  hundred people do it in 10 minutes I [TS]

  shame someone that says hang on let's [TS]

  have a look at this [TS]

  right exactly like presumably that's [TS]

  what's occurring if you press the report [TS]

  button it doesn't immediately remove [TS]

  someone's video [TS]

  no but i think that this is in the long [TS]

  line of like YouTube not being super [TS]

  great communication I think this is [TS]

  partly what caused the problem because [TS]

  if they release a video saying youtube [TS]

  heroes have the ability to flag [TS]

  inappropriate content and showed someone [TS]

  like Apple II clicking on a bunch of [TS]

  videos are looking to get like little [TS]

  red x's on them [TS]

  yeah because people can already report [TS]

  stuff people are naturally going to [TS]

  assume that there must be more to this [TS]

  like otherwise what are you talking [TS]

  about you're talking about a feature [TS]

  that already exists and so I think [TS]

  people were very quick to jump to the [TS]

  conclusion that [TS]

  that YouTube heroes must be able to [TS]

  remove content from YouTube because [TS]

  otherwise what are you talking about [TS]

  in the meantime what has occurred is [TS]

  that YouTube has come out to try to [TS]

  clarify the situation with YouTube [TS]

  heroes and as far as i can tell YouTube [TS]

  heroes just seems to be a way that [TS]

  youtube is trying to create a group of [TS]

  people whose flagging of videos they can [TS]

  weigh more heavily okay 1,000 civilians [TS]

  flag video lets off a warning bell at [TS]

  YouTube but if 20 heroes flag video that [TS]

  sets off the same warning bell that's [TS]

  the impression that i'm getting that's [TS]

  the way it seems to be I hope that's the [TS]

  case and I hope we're not just like [TS]

  digging you too bad about how they [TS]

  should be in because they're doing [TS]

  something stupid [TS]

  well there was a reddit AMA which was an [TS]

  interview with a bunch of people who [TS]

  were you two heroes which is still a [TS]

  hard time even just saying it up because [TS]

  it's like you want to like this like the [TS]

  most unheroic thing ever because it [TS]

  feels kind of like tattling yeah I [TS]

  should be code youtube snitches [TS]

  I understand the problem that YouTube [TS]

  has like I understand that there is a [TS]

  really horrific stuff which is uploaded [TS]

  to YouTube constantly like youtube I do [TS]

  get it that there's a lot of horrors [TS]

  that most normal people never seen on [TS]

  youtube and you and you need ways to [TS]

  figure out all this stuff but it's like [TS]

  the hero named just feels so wrong for [TS]

  like the thing that's happening because [TS]

  most people's experience it's a bit [TS]

  grandi ice isn't it yeah it's a bit [TS]

  grandiose and you know even the videos [TS]

  like every hero needs a bit of glory and [TS]

  again from like reading about what it is [TS]

  it feels a lot like janitorial work like [TS]

  boy his place is a real mess like we [TS]

  need a bunch of people to clean it up [TS]

  how can we get them to clean it up will [TS]

  call them heroes like will give them [TS]

  points to do that its just oh so you [TS]

  think they need someone to do poor and [TS]

  grunt work and their incentivizing them [TS]

  with mike glory [TS]

  ok have you seen the actual video that [TS]

  was the original announcement video [TS]

  no well apparently that's impossible now [TS]

  because i heard another controversy was [TS]

  they changed the video like with the [TS]

  same link they actually went in and [TS]

  replaced the video with had to change a [TS]

  few things that had caused the most [TS]

  problems and it's only like it through [TS]

  dodgy you know pirate versions you can [TS]

  see what they originally said yeah this [TS]

  also falls into the category of how do [TS]

  you best extinguish controversy online [TS]

  probably not by using powers that nobody [TS]

  else has to change your video and to [TS]

  make no reference about the changes that [TS]

  have occurred and hope nobody notices [TS]

  that's probably not the best way to calm [TS]

  the situation down is to literally 1984 [TS]

  style throw your original video down the [TS]

  memory hole and replace it with a new [TS]

  video that has changed the wording of [TS]

  key points [TS]

  it's like guys that this is not the way [TS]

  to do this this is going to come nobody [TS]

  down this is going to make everybody [TS]

  angrier because now they can point to a [TS]

  thing where you're trying to go back and [TS]

  like retro actively change something [TS]

  like it's fine to try to be clearer but [TS]

  if you're trying to be clearer you have [TS]

  to do that in a clear way not like over [TS]

  going back and we're just changing the [TS]

  thing and we're not going to make any [TS]

  reference to it yeah it's the worst way [TS]

  to do this the minor problem with that [TS]

  is as well it's not just like being [TS]

  caught in a cover-up which is the worst [TS]

  possible thing to happen right let's [TS]

  also dredged up this out [TS]

  acorn of people wanting to be able to [TS]

  replace and fix their videos what [TS]

  exactly is the last debate they wanted [TS]

  to get drawn into a whole other thing [TS]

  now they've been pulled into that buddy [TS]

  storm as well right [TS]

  I think that's something we brought up [TS]

  on the first episode of Hello internet [TS]

  two years ago in fact that desire to [TS]

  replace us as a thing that all creators [TS]

  would love to have it as like obviously [TS]

  youtube as the owner of the platform is [TS]

  like of course they can go in and modify [TS]

  their own database like surprise is none [TS]

  is just dredging up another thing for [TS]

  creators to get really angry about and i [TS]

  do want to have just like [TS]

  a little moment of sympathy for you too [TS]

  because while youtube definitely I think [TS]

  we as we have mentioned many times does [TS]

  not handle these situations of [TS]

  communicating with creators well because [TS]

  ultimately like the heroes program i [TS]

  think is relatively innocuous but came [TS]

  across in just the wrong way and turned [TS]

  into a gigantic storm it's like YouTube [TS]

  you must know by now that there is a [TS]

  growing industry of people who make a [TS]

  living off of youtube outraged right [TS]

  it's like people know now that there is [TS]

  profit to be made by getting furious at [TS]

  YouTube immediately about stuff and if I [TS]

  if you're aware of that you need to be [TS]

  careful i wonder why people think that's [TS]

  us which I don't think we are but [TS]

  whenever these scandals come up my [TS]

  Twitter fills up with people going are [TS]

  brady and great you got to go and kick [TS]

  youtube about YouTube heroes now as well [TS]

  like I feel like where they put in that [TS]

  boat of it and I have sympathy for you [TS]

  to I don't want to kick them i really [TS]

  like them all the people there i have [TS]

  met are like and like they've created [TS]

  this thing that's given me like a career [TS]

  so I don't like that business industry [TS]

  of kicking them in the gas but there [TS]

  sure as hell is crazy i think this is [TS]

  the one especially because we just went [TS]

  through the d monetization thing [TS]

  whatever it was two or three weeks ago [TS]

  and then this happens [TS]

  yeah i think it's close enough that it [TS]

  becomes obvious that in a way it's funny [TS]

  but I see a similar pattern with [TS]

  whenever a new iPhone comes out there is [TS]

  obviously an industry of people who are [TS]

  just desperate to find what is the thing [TS]

  wrong with this phone to turn it into [TS]

  the scandal about this phone [TS]

  yeah because it means that there's a ton [TS]

  of money to be made if you are the first [TS]

  person who can find something wrong with [TS]

  the phone like this is just a thing that [TS]

  exists yet the antenna that doesn't work [TS]

  or the battery that over hate so right [TS]

  or like bending it on purpose right to [TS]

  try to like it affects heard a lot of [TS]

  foresight like that's been on Ben's how [TS]

  outrageous like yeah of course it [TS]

  doesn't [TS]

  why wouldn't it but this is like a thing [TS]

  and so I think yeah [TS]

  youtube finds himself in the position of [TS]

  there are people who [TS]

  will want to get angry at everything [TS]

  they do immediately because now this [TS]

  itself has become like a metal genre [TS]

  that exists on the platform in the same [TS]

  way that like youtube drama exists that [TS]

  people love to get angry at other [TS]

  YouTube channels and that that YouTube [TS]

  channels creators being angry at other [TS]

  Creators is it like a total thing that I [TS]

  think is sometimes done like quite [TS]

  cynically right where I'm not sure how [TS]

  much people really care but it's like [TS]

  you get a lot of attention if you're [TS]

  creating like a fight between two [TS]

  youtube channels so yeah I definitely [TS]

  have sympathy for you to be in this [TS]

  situation and it's part of the reason [TS]

  why I didn't want to go on Twitter and [TS]

  complain about stuff right away because [TS]

  I did feel like let me wait to see what [TS]

  youtube says and then I only said [TS]

  something on Twitter when they pulled [TS]

  the memory hole trick like we're just [TS]

  gonna retro actively wipe the video and [TS]

  put something up the new and like now [TS]

  you've just made a terrible mistake like [TS]

  now I feel a little bit better coming [TS]

  out and saying like this is awful like [TS]

  this is not a good idea you don't do [TS]

  this but i did kinda want to wait [TS]

  because I didn't want to have just like [TS]

  a knee-jerk reaction about it i think [TS]

  people expect us to be super angry about [TS]

  this but in many ways i think the [TS]

  YouTube heroes is largely much ado about [TS]

  nothing [TS]

  I don't necessarily think it's a big [TS]

  deal or as big of a deal as people / [TS]

  traded initially rah [TS]

  so the obvious concern would be imbuing [TS]

  an authorized strangers with a great [TS]

  power to have videos removal and [TS]

  creators penalized if that's not the [TS]

  case [TS]

  do you have any thoughts about if [TS]

  they're just like you know giving [TS]

  frequent flyer points to people who [TS]

  helped them by doing lots of their grunt [TS]

  work then do you have any concerns about [TS]

  that or do you just think it's like just [TS]

  a bit of an a thing or do you have any [TS]

  thoughts about them in listing all this [TS]

  free labor rather than employing more [TS]

  people themselves to fix these problems [TS]

  they want out with because that was one [TS]

  of the other criticisms i saw it was a [TS]

  bit like they're in this thing [TS]

  slave labor when they should employ more [TS]

  people to be policing there [TS]

  Wild West it will that I think is what [TS]

  has ended up for me being the [TS]

  interesting question about this whole [TS]

  program thinking about you two euros as [TS]

  one of the reasons why i asked you if [TS]

  you've seen the video because the video [TS]

  shows like sign up to be a youtube hero [TS]

  and and what happens to you again [TS]

  now as you act heroically online [TS]

  flagging videos you know and tattling [TS]

  and will give you points and like what [TS]

  happens as you earn points and watching [TS]

  this video the first thing that struck [TS]

  me about it was it was so job like one [TS]

  of the things they say that once you [TS]

  sign up like you'll join a community and [TS]

  then what can you do when you join the [TS]

  community [TS]

  you can learn more at exclusive [TS]

  workshops that sounds like a business [TS]

  meeting [TS]

  that's what that sounds like you you're [TS]

  part of the HR department and we're [TS]

  going to have a workshop about what [TS]

  counts as appropriate and inappropriate [TS]

  content on YouTube like surely that's [TS]

  what you mean by these workshops like [TS]

  what else are the workshops going to be [TS]

  about two enough free work for us and [TS]

  we'll try to be more free work right and [TS]

  will train you to make sure that you're [TS]

  really on board with how we want things [TS]

  to happen and then the next one is the [TS]

  like it says take part in hero video [TS]

  chats and i want to show someone who's [TS]

  super happy to be talking to three [TS]

  randos right on his computer in a video [TS]

  chat like and again it's like okay so [TS]

  this is a conference call the structure [TS]

  of this whole thing is YouTube has a [TS]

  problem where they want to make sure [TS]

  that content that doesn't mean they're [TS]

  appropriate guidelines like isn't on [TS]

  their website and again like a case i [TS]

  can sort of go along with that to a [TS]

  certain extent but if the whole [TS]

  structure of this program is to help [TS]

  them solve this problem Nick what are [TS]

  these video chats going to be of course [TS]

  they're just going to be more meetings [TS]

  like it's just it's a meeting with [TS]

  someone who's higher up is going to be [TS]

  telling you how they want you to do your [TS]

  hero job [TS]

  it essentially says if you follow it [TS]

  through like here's what happens you [TS]

  join up to be a hero [TS]

  you will be trained at workshops and [TS]

  through video chats on how to be a hero [TS]

  if you are good enough will unlock tools [TS]

  so that you can [TS]

  deal with videos on a much wider faster [TS]

  scale so you can do more stuff for us [TS]

  that's worrying [TS]

  yeah if you do a good job of this you [TS]

  will eventually be able to go to a [TS]

  conference with other YouTube heroes and [TS]

  so it's like all of it just sounds like [TS]

  its work it just sounds like this is [TS]

  essentially a free job that we want [TS]

  people to do for youtube I don't know [TS]

  how to feel about that [TS]

  it's partly why i keep thinking of it as [TS]

  like YouTube Hall monitors like you have [TS]

  these hall monitors in school and every [TS]

  school does this and as a teacher when [TS]

  you see the kids who sign up to be the [TS]

  Hall monitors they can have some [TS]

  thoughts about those kids [TS]

  what kind of kids sign up to be home [TS]

  monitors the other thing that's a bit [TS]

  concerning the great to do you have any [TS]

  I know you're not an expert on the [TS]

  YouTube Heroes program but you know a [TS]

  bit more than a is there any indication [TS]

  that these rewards you earn come from [TS]

  the number of times you snitch because [TS]

  that also sounds like a problem to me [TS]

  because it's a bit like you know [TS]

  rewarding parking inspectors for how [TS]

  many tickets they give suddenly they [TS]

  become more and more draconian and less [TS]

  lenient or they won't start you know [TS]

  pushing the Rose a little bit themselves [TS]

  because they're being rewarded for [TS]

  punishing others so i hope the heroes [TS]

  are being rewarded for the number of [TS]

  videos they watch and not the number of [TS]

  videos they flag because i don't want [TS]

  them to stop flagging things to try and [TS]

  get their reward points up right so [TS]

  reading through the interviews another [TS]

  and the clarification that YouTube has [TS]

  put out here is my best understanding of [TS]

  how the system works so videos that are [TS]

  flagged on youtube now whether it be by [TS]

  heroes or just as regular civilians in [TS]

  the trenches who are not heroes [TS]

  ultimately all that happens is that [TS]

  those videos then go to some mysterious [TS]

  actual group of paid employees within [TS]

  YouTube who determine whether or not [TS]

  like the content is or is not [TS]

  appropriate right and so this group of [TS]

  actual youtube employees makes a call [TS]

  about yes this is a video that should [TS]

  have been reported and we're going to [TS]

  remove it or not [TS]

  yeah and YouTube gave a number which [TS]

  says that if you look at just randos [TS]

  flagging videos their accuracy as [TS]

  measured by how often does YouTube agree [TS]

  it's like thirty percent accurate so [TS]

  randos flag videos way more than YouTube [TS]

  thinks the content is actually [TS]

  inappropriate which is not surprising [TS]

  it's interesting to have a number [TS]

  attached to that what do you think you [TS]

  think the numbers too big you think the [TS]

  numbers too small [TS]

  I've never thought about it before so [TS]

  now that i think about a yeah I guess [TS]

  anyone can flag video just because they [TS]

  didn't like or someone's hair looked [TS]

  like or they could let you know [TS]

  press the wrong button so i guess if [TS]

  just one flag counts in that number then [TS]

  I'm not surprised thirty percent [TS]

  effective could have easily been lower [TS]

  debt to me at that number seems almost [TS]

  crazily high when you think if I like [TS]

  how much people disagree about what is [TS]

  or is not appropriate content like the [TS]

  fundamental part of this whole [TS]

  conversation is like what is the notion [TS]

  of appropriate content will put that [TS]

  aside for the moment [TS]

  yeah so regular people have a terribly [TS]

  low hit rate what I think is happening [TS]

  and what seems to be the case is that [TS]

  the YouTube heroes is a way to isolate [TS]

  the people whose flagging agrees much [TS]

  more with YouTube's actual paid [TS]

  employees who determine what is it is [TS]

  not appropriate [TS]

  yeah and so I saw on the red discussion [TS]

  with people who are the beta program for [TS]

  the heroes that their numbers were in [TS]

  like the 90 95 plus percent agreements [TS]

  with the YouTube paid employees and so [TS]

  my speculation here is that they're not [TS]

  getting points for simply flagging [TS]

  videos that there's some kind of [TS]

  algorithm about how much do you agree [TS]

  okay with what our actual employees are [TS]

  doing [TS]

  that's good that's kind there were some [TS]

  comments along those lines of people who [TS]

  are flagging videos that don't really [TS]

  ever get a agreement or have very low [TS]

  agreement rates that they're essentially [TS]

  pushed out of the program or the system [TS]

  doesn't really recommend them [TS]

  ok so that's why i say like the heroes [TS]

  thing it seems to me to just be [TS]

  YouTube's attempt to create a more [TS]

  reliable group of people who are [TS]

  flagging videos [TS]

  yeah that's what this purpose is that [TS]

  they say look if we just look at all of [TS]

  the flags is is very noisy data it's [TS]

  only thirty percent right which means [TS]

  we're wasting seventy percent of our [TS]

  time [TS]

  let's get a bunch of Ernest busybody [TS]

  hall monitor types to flag videos and [TS]

  essentially cut down on the workload for [TS]

  our actual pain employees that's kind of [TS]

  the way this program strikes me that's [TS]

  what's occurring here we will reward you [TS]

  with something that's very much like a [TS]

  job but it's not a job and might involve [TS]

  conferences we will reward you with this [TS]

  for acting as a pre-filter for the work [TS]

  that our actual paid employees have to [TS]

  do and that's what the heroes program is [TS]

  that's what i mean by like it's sort of [TS]

  a whole lot of nothing [TS]

  I almost wonder why YouTube is even [TS]

  bothering publishing this they could [TS]

  have done a secretly couldn't night we [TS]

  could have all had a secret number [TS]

  attached to us on a sort of flag [TS]

  accuracy [TS]

  yeah and they could have just known [TS]

  Brady's a hero he's flags are always [TS]

  good [TS]

  ignore raise flags because he's like you [TS]

  know he's a bit of a hothead all these [TS]

  trigger-happy oh they could have had all [TS]

  the data and done this program that was [TS]

  knowing i guess that what they want to [TS]

  do the reason that made a public is to [TS]

  incentivize people to flag because if I [TS]

  see something inappropriate i'm going to [TS]

  be honest with you I don't forget I just [TS]

  think well that's inappropriate and [TS]

  probably stop watching [TS]

  look I'm not a flag that because I'm not [TS]

  stitch that Brady's no rat [TS]

  exactly so I guess that's why they've [TS]

  made a public because they want people [TS]

  to you know take pride in being a snitch [TS]

  well I don't know it's the cut and that [TS]

  thing that you expect from a super [TS]

  thanks for asking company like that you [TS]

  choose [TS]

  they're all you know they're reaching [TS]

  out and building communities and making [TS]

  heroes and that's RI I appreciate that [TS]

  i'm just a cynical person here in [TS]

  England getting rained on and thinking [TS]

  everything's terrible and they're over [TS]

  there in the sunshine thinking [TS]

  everything's lovely and we all can be [TS]

  heroes [TS]

  yeah I don't know it's just I have these [TS]

  conflicted feelings about this in some [TS]

  ways I think it's much ado about nothing [TS]

  and if people want to participate in [TS]

  this program I mean fine i guess i don't [TS]

  really have an issue with it to me it's [TS]

  also tied up with so much of the [TS]

  internet is related to the fact that [TS]

  it's a tool that allows a kind of [TS]

  distributed coordination among lots of [TS]

  people like the very fact that I feel [TS]

  like I really need to draw the sharp [TS]

  line between there's some group of [TS]

  people who are getting paid at YouTube [TS]

  to take down videos and there are [TS]

  there's this other group of people who [TS]

  are doing very very similar work but are [TS]

  not getting paid and this is like heroes [TS]

  vs. employees but this dynamic exists [TS]

  all over the web in lots of different [TS]

  forms that i feel like i can't really [TS]

  complain about United's like Wikipedia [TS]

  is the easiest example ever [TS]

  are there people who work at Wikipedia [TS]

  who get paid by the funds that wikipedia [TS]

  raises but wikipedia is built on top of [TS]

  an enormous army of people who have [TS]

  created an entire bureaucracy within [TS]

  wikipedia about who are more or less [TS]

  trusted editors this actually affects us [TS]

  personally with our hello internet page [TS]

  which got vandalized so many times that [TS]

  well now you have to be some certain [TS]

  level of wikipedia editor before you're [TS]

  allowed to make change [TS]

  I don't know why our page would have [TS]

  been vandalized so frequently I can't [TS]

  believe that now I have no idea that it [TS]

  was probably the loose affection but [TS]

  that's an example of like do I have a [TS]

  real problem with that no is it because [TS]

  wikipedia is a not-for-profit company i [TS]

  guess but then in the exact same way [TS]

  it's like reddit is the same thing all [TS]

  over again like reddit is a for-profit [TS]

  company but every time people [TS]

  upvote or downvote links like in a sense [TS]

  you doing work for reddit they're doing [TS]

  like a distributed let the crowd find [TS]

  the interesting things that people want [TS]

  to talk about stuff so it's like I'm [TS]

  doing work for read it when I up-or-down [TS]

  vote links and do I really care about [TS]

  that not really i also reward people [TS]

  don't live with [TS]

  fake glory that night rather let you the [TS]

  same thing as heroes you know your [TS]

  camera and your points and your [TS]

  pointless glory if you get karma for [TS]

  submitting links that people like me and [TS]

  you lose karma when you say on popular [TS]

  things I don't know I just feel like so [TS]

  much of the internet is different [TS]

  versions of this and it's hard to have a [TS]

  consistent feeling about it even again [TS]

  like my framing of YouTube heroes is [TS]

  like YouTube tools like you are being [TS]

  used as a literal tool by YouTube for [TS]

  free [TS]

  participating in this program i can say [TS]

  that but then at the same time like do I [TS]

  feel like a tool uploading or [TS]

  downloading links on reddit [TS]

  no do I feel like a tool if I correct a [TS]

  typo on wikipedia know [TS]

  so is this that different and I just [TS]

  don't know I don't know I as long as [TS]

  these people don't have the final say in [TS]

  things then it's pretty hard to complain [TS]

  about it if these people don't have the [TS]

  sole power to remove a video from [TS]

  youtube or you know effect creators fair [TS]

  opportunity on the platform then it's [TS]

  pretty hard to complain about it and I [TS]

  guess they have the power to send more [TS]

  of us to court and previously before [TS]

  they're almost like slightly more [TS]

  powerful police men at play and they can [TS]

  let you know if their referrals carry [TS]

  greater weight they're gonna start [TS]

  sending more people to the court of [TS]

  YouTube to be ruled around there like a [TS]

  secret police [TS]

  yeah yeah so that's really what it is [TS]

  what it feel like and I agree with you [TS]

  like more people will be before the the [TS]

  court of YouTube yeah but then again if [TS]

  you two have got their act together luck [TS]

  Yusei maybe they do and the police are [TS]

  being monitored and you know if you're a [TS]

  policeman who's reporting lots of people [TS]

  wrongly you lose your badge then alright [TS]

  then sounds like they've kind of got a [TS]

  system in place that's kinda going to [TS]

  work [TS]

  I think they're trying to defuse a lot [TS]

  of the anger and confusion over this by [TS]

  saying that like we're just referring [TS]

  stuff up to the the actual court we [TS]

  don't have the power to remove videos [TS]

  like let's make it clear that's not the [TS]

  case and so to me it feels like they're [TS]

  diffusing anger around the YouTube [TS]

  Heroes program [TS]

  but still always comes back to like the [TS]

  real argument takes place over what is [TS]

  it that the YouTube court decides and [TS]

  the heroes thing is just a total [TS]

  distraction on the side like that's [TS]

  actually what matters is what does [TS]

  YouTube think is appropriate or [TS]

  inappropriate for their platform that is [TS]

  a complicated question their guidelines [TS]

  are vague and I think intentionally [TS]

  vague so that they can rule the way they [TS]

  want a purely selfish perspective great [TS]

  do you worry about that because I mean [TS]

  you seem to be so far from that line in [TS]

  the sand of what is acceptable and not [TS]

  acceptable content that this must not [TS]

  even come into your mind like it's not [TS]

  like anything you've ever made is gonna [TS]

  get ripped down for that reason so are [TS]

  you worrying just because of a general [TS]

  worry about the platform or free speech [TS]

  I mean you're not wired from it so fresh [TS]

  perspective I i have no personal [TS]

  connection to this fight in the sense [TS]

  that I I think it's pretty unlikely that [TS]

  any video that i would upload would [TS]

  probably be deemed by YouTube is [TS]

  inappropriate content but just because [TS]

  it doesn't affect me is not a question [TS]

  of if i find it concerning or not [TS]

  again I always want to sympathize with [TS]

  you like I understand that they're in a [TS]

  difficult position but i always start [TS]

  getting really uncomfortable when people [TS]

  are outlining guidelines of what is and [TS]

  is not appropriate because ultimately [TS]

  this comes down to some kind of like [TS]

  human consensus decision even whenever [TS]

  you try to like write out the guidelines [TS]

  really what it boils down to is like [TS]

  we're going to have some group of people [TS]

  and they are going to decide what's cool [TS]

  and what's not cool it's like it's [TS]

  really interesting whenever you talk to [TS]

  people about how it's it's so hard to [TS]

  get people to agree on what they think [TS]

  is appropriate or inappropriate so I I [TS]

  just start getting a little bit [TS]

  uncomfortable and a little bit nervous [TS]

  when this gets set up like there is a [TS]

  court somewhere that makes decisions I I [TS]

  like a more free-for-all approach to [TS]

  this stuff all that great for as long as [TS]

  we've been talking about this you know [TS]

  we've been talking [TS]

  this since before we even started making [TS]

  hello internet and you've always very [TS]

  much had this attitude that [TS]

  hey YouTube the company they own it they [TS]

  can't decide what to do with it we all [TS]

  have to live with that [TS]

  you know it's not like it's a [TS]

  democratically elected government is not [TS]

  like a free open-source thing we're in [TS]

  their hands we have to accept it and [TS]

  that's the price we pay for being on a [TS]

  blue and then over time you seem to be [TS]

  drifting more and more towards this [TS]

  thing where you believe it is like this [TS]

  Democratic place where people should be [TS]

  allowed to do what they want and people [TS]

  shouldn't be in charge and look a [TS]

  hundred percent sure where you sort of [TS]

  stand on that now [TS]

  well no there's a distinction here which [TS]

  is the YouTube is a company and they can [TS]

  do what they want and I think the heroes [TS]

  program along with the d monetization [TS]

  strategy that happened a couple weeks [TS]

  ago I think this is all combined with [TS]

  the knowledge that youtube is still not [TS]

  profitable as far as I'm aware of this [TS]

  last time we checked up on that I think [TS]

  that this is all generally a movement [TS]

  toward make youtube more advertising [TS]

  friendly and more profitable like that [TS]

  that's what they want to do and like can [TS]

  I argue against that as the goal of [TS]

  YouTube as a company now it's entirely [TS]

  within their rights and partly their [TS]

  obligation to do just that [TS]

  like I'm not necessarily even saying [TS]

  like if I was the CEO of YouTube would I [TS]

  act differently like well the CEO of [TS]

  YouTube is under a bunch of constraints [TS]

  she's not just a person who can just do [TS]

  whatever she wants like she has [TS]

  obligations to shareholders she has [TS]

  obligations to the parent company like [TS]

  there are goals that are set like she [TS]

  can't just do with thing and so I [TS]

  understand why this happens but that's a [TS]

  different question from like how do i [TS]

  personally feel knowing that there is a [TS]

  YouTube court who ultimately their goal [TS]

  is to keep the platform advertiser [TS]

  friendly i'm not a super fan of that [TS]

  feeling i don't really like that but I [TS]

  can understand why it occurs it's also a [TS]

  very different question of like we've [TS]

  had this essentially this same [TS]

  discussion when you talk about like [TS]

  Reddit like and what kind of content can [TS]

  be on reddit and read it has gone [TS]

  through this stuff like ever [TS]

  three social media platform goes through [TS]

  this exact same thing of it becomes this [TS]

  enormous thing its CEOs its board of [TS]

  directors have structural obligations [TS]

  that they're trying to meet there trying [TS]

  to make it profitable how do you do it [TS]

  part of the way is to remove content [TS]

  that advertisers don't like this happens [TS]

  all the time but it's a different [TS]

  question of like let's say somehow i was [TS]

  running a video sharing company and it [TS]

  was also with thing that I had never had [TS]

  to do venture capital funding for that I [TS]

  had no investors in like it was just a [TS]

  100-percent privately held company you [TS]

  know what would I do with that service i [TS]

  feel like i would try to lean as far as [TS]

  possible along the like easy to legal in [TS]

  the country that it's being published in [TS]

  if that's the case then obviously it has [TS]

  to come down because I would have to [TS]

  work within the constraints of the law [TS]

  like you can't go against that but i [TS]

  feel like i would try to lean personally [TS]

  much further on the like do you say [TS]

  things that people really don't want you [TS]

  to say it's like well their words and [TS]

  people might not like them but I'm a [TS]

  more ok with like leaving up stuff that [TS]

  i don't personally agree with but that's [TS]

  a totally different situation where you [TS]

  are imagining that I have way more [TS]

  leeway and running a thing it's like [TS]

  it's my private company i have no one to [TS]

  answer to how would I do it you know but [TS]

  then like with all this stuff there's [TS]

  always going to be edge cases and edge [TS]

  cases are where stuff starts to Road and [TS]

  so like I have a lot of sympathy for the [TS]

  people who do end up in charge of these [TS]

  big systems [TS]

  yeah and of course it also gets [TS]

  complicated when children get involved [TS]

  as well yeah I mean well that's why all [TS]

  of these services have at least the [TS]

  extensible rule that no children should [TS]

  be using them in the first place which [TS]

  we all know is a lie but as the like [TS]

  yeah there's nobody under 13 on facebook [TS]

  i'm sure there aren't but so that's why [TS]

  it's it's complicated [TS]

  I have sympathy for the people who are [TS]

  in charge of this but that is very [TS]

  different from like my personal feelings [TS]

  about how it goes but i understand i do [TS]

  think there's [TS]

  one complicating factor though which is [TS]

  I think we're now in a world where [TS]

  social media services [TS]

  I don't know this is what matters is [TS]

  probably going a little bit too far but [TS]

  they're almost like public forums other [TS]

  almost like a kind of public property [TS]

  where it's it's very easy to say like Oh [TS]

  youtube as an individual entity is [TS]

  allowed to do whatever it wants and [TS]

  shutdown people that it doesn't like and [TS]

  twitter is also able to do that and [TS]

  facebook is also able to do that and [TS]

  like on an individual case it's always [TS]

  easy to point to one of them and to say [TS]

  like oh yes of course they should be [TS]

  able to do it but in the aggregate I [TS]

  don't know I feel like they are very [TS]

  rapidly becoming absolutely vital tools [TS]

  of human communication and to restrict [TS]

  those in ways makes me a little bit [TS]

  uncomfortable but yeah I think it might [TS]

  be a little bit too far to say like oh [TS]

  it's almost like they're public squares [TS]

  where people should be able to talk [TS]

  about whatever they want i don't really [TS]

  think that's the case but I think as [TS]

  they become more powerful and more [TS]

  central in our lives they up approach [TS]

  that they they really do we're like [TS]

  removing someone from twitter is is [TS]

  damaging I think they do agree with you [TS]

  yeah I see what you're reluctant to go [TS]

  there and where there are a few little [TS]

  pitfalls but i think they have getting [TS]

  very close to that I know why you're [TS]

  scared to talk about talking about it [TS]

  because it's very complicated [TS]

  I'm not scared are talking about it i [TS]

  just think it's like to actually declare [TS]

  that there's something like a public [TS]

  forum is a very different thing you know [TS]

  just like everybody should have the [TS]

  right to say what they want on and [TS]

  actually private companies property i [TS]

  can't really cross that line is it's [TS]

  like there's conflicting values here of [TS]

  should companies be able to do what they [TS]

  want with their property yes it should [TS]

  people be able to express themselves [TS]

  even if they express ideas that not [TS]

  everybody likes yes that you run into [TS]

  conflicts of these two things I maybe [TS]

  I'm just thinking of this it as I go [TS]

  along so maybe this is a stupid thing [TS]

  but I think to use a UK example I think [TS]

  maybe some of these platforms like [TS]

  facebook and twitter we're almost get [TS]

  into a situation where you need to treat [TS]

  them almost like the UK has public [TS]

  rights-of-way what do you mean well that [TS]

  in the UK you can own a piece of land [TS]

  like you can own a farm or something [TS]

  blue [TS]

  but if there's a public right-of-way if [TS]

  it's a path going through it [TS]

  the public has a fundamental right to [TS]

  walk across and you can't say get off my [TS]

  land I own the land although it is your [TS]

  land em the public has a right to walk [TS]

  across it to get from A to B into do [TS]

  certain things there's a whole bunch of [TS]

  famous protests things in sort of UK [TS]

  history that got a lot of landmarks [TS]

  stuff happened I appreciate where there [TS]

  was a big protests about this because [TS]

  for ethical farmer was like shutting his [TS]

  land and not letting the hikers and the [TS]

  walkers go across this land and all [TS]

  kicked off and in the end it was a great [TS]

  victory for walkers around the UK and [TS]

  that's why the UK such a great place to [TS]

  walk to this day because we have these [TS]

  public rights-of-way where you can walk [TS]

  across other people's land in certain [TS]

  cases Lou at but that doesn't mean the [TS]

  person doesn't either land and I think [TS]

  like Facebook and Twitter maybe a [TS]

  getting into that sort of territory [TS]

  where yes Facebook owner and they can [TS]

  find sheep on if they want and they can [TS]

  plant a tree and they can make money [TS]

  that's all they're right but there still [TS]

  is a public right-of-way component to it [TS]

  where they have to acknowledge that if [TS]

  they're going to own this mega farm in a [TS]

  popular place the public have to be able [TS]

  to use it to in certain ways that they [TS]

  can't just put a padlock on the gate the [TS]

  public do have certain rights [TS]

  hmm that's an interesting metaphor [TS]

  that's an interesting way to think about [TS]

  it if it turns out being a good one [TS]

  just remember i said at first is a lot [TS]

  if it's a lousy one let's just pretend [TS]

  that never happened [TS]