Hello Internet

H.I. #69: Ex_Machina

 

  I hear you have a listener photo that [TS]

  you want to start with Brady just when [TS]

  you think the listener photos cannot [TS]

  possibly get any better [TS]

  the ante has been up once again you [TS]

  remember last episode I'm sure who are [TS]

  listening and listening photo was dingy [TS]

  yes of course remind us what was it was [TS]

  an actor on air crash investigators way [TS]

  but I know that somewhere in the world [TS]

  is called Mayday that's right it's [TS]

  called Mayday somewhere i know that it's [TS]

  code made in America now this was an [TS]

  actor who's playing an air traffic [TS]

  controller in an episode of air crash [TS]

  investigation and the episode was the [TS]

  crash in which the Gulf a pain Stewart [TS]

  and a number of other people very [TS]

  unfortunately died when their lead yet [TS]

  decompressed they got hypoxia and [TS]

  presumably died and the plane sort of [TS]

  flew like a ghost plane over a large [TS]

  tract of the u.s. until it ran out of [TS]

  fuel and during that time a number of [TS]

  fighter jets were sort of sent up to try [TS]

  and see what was going on with this [TS]

  ghost plane that was just flying north [TS]

  america and they sort of pulled up next [TS]

  to it and try to look through the [TS]

  windows and see what was going on they [TS]

  thought it probably had a compressed and [TS]

  we all know the rest [TS]

  Randolph you'll crash into the ground so [TS]

  I had another email from a listener to [TS]

  hello Internet [TS]

  this was wine wine says dear dr. heron [TS]

  so I like him already Brady does like [TS]

  that he doesn't like it when you show [TS]

  deference well it shows he's a temp food [TS]

  though he says dear dr. hair i am an air [TS]

  traffic controller who was directly [TS]

  involved with the events depicted in [TS]

  season 1 episode 16 of plane crash [TS]

  investigator only silence I was of the [TS]

  controller who sent the f-15 fighter [TS]

  jets to run the initial intercept on [TS]

  pains to its chatter now [TS]

  really it's very exciting but I'm [TS]

  beginning to wonder that you're being [TS]

  taken in because this is now going very [TS]

  far down there [TS]

  rabbit hole listeners to the show we are [TS]

  going deep [TS]

  anyway I've read on he says I was in the [TS]

  process of listening to HR number 68 and [TS]

  checking the show notes when I reviewed [TS]

  the listener photo i laughed out loud [TS]

  there are many many things wrong with [TS]

  the set of air traffic control [TS]

  workstation a few ones are you like this [TS]

  if you have the choice ones are the red [TS]

  phone apparently there's no red phone [TS]

  you know the radar scope itself and what [TS]

  is shown on the scope so he decided to [TS]

  go and watch the whole episode he [TS]

  tracked down on youtube and he says from [TS]

  the air traffic control side of the [TS]

  equation the amount of inaccuracies was [TS]

  staggering i would love to explain to [TS]

  you a love of aviation how the intercept [TS]

  went down and where the show go over [TS]

  things wrong [TS]

  we have not yet had that discussion but [TS]

  if it but it seems inevitable [TS]

  ok yes yes now as you can imagine i was [TS]

  a bit suspicious gray you know this [TS]

  seems almost too good to be true [TS]

  yeah but i'm not sure how this business [TS]

  you'd actually be actually like even if [TS]

  you think you're being suspicious that [TS]

  you still really wanted to be true [TS]

  I didn't want it to be true that so I [TS]

  did ask for photos another email follows [TS]

  he calls me Brady now I'm not dr. hair [TS]

  anymore so we've obviously we've moved [TS]

  beyond up there and hang on a first-name [TS]

  basis now ok we are [TS]

  Brady after securing permission from the [TS]

  Chief of Air Facility jacksonville air [TS]

  route traffic control center i was able [TS]

  to take some photos as requested [TS]

  he points out he's an email in his break [TS]

  they will not allow photography in the [TS]

  actual control room because of national [TS]

  security but i was able to get a photo [TS]

  in the refresher training dynamic [TS]

  simulation lab which is mocked up to [TS]

  resemble the control room as much as [TS]

  possible although not perfectly without [TS]

  displaying live traffic only can [TS]

  scenarios for training purposes the [TS]

  scope is set to the sector that took the [TS]

  handoff from mci orlando approach and [TS]

  issued to climb to FL 264 lat level 260 [TS]

  26,000 feet so he's got the training [TS]

  station and he's mocked it up with the [TS]

  actual sector that was involved in this [TS]

  incident and he's sitting in front of it [TS]

  holding of course iphone displaying [TS]

  hello Internet send it to an hour gray [TS]

  this is wayne not the pretend air [TS]

  traffic controller we had last week but [TS]

  the actual air traffic controller i have [TS]

  to say this looks way more like what a [TS]

  real air traffic control center would [TS]

  look like in no small part because like [TS]

  that keyboard looks really clunky and [TS]

  old and I feel like that's what I would [TS]

  expect an air traffic controller to [TS]

  actually be using is like all but [TS]

  reliable equipment very very reliable if [TS]

  you think that's good you should see the [TS]

  other picture he sent us the second [TS]

  photo is of me in the lobby with my [TS]

  facility while on break in front of the [TS]

  sole remaining RadarScope from the old [TS]

  system that was in use when I controlled [TS]

  the fighters to intercept pains to its [TS]

  jet so this second picture is the actual [TS]

  type of scope that he was using at the [TS]

  time so you put some ways this is even [TS]

  more legit now that looks so old it's [TS]

  crossed over in my brain that it looks [TS]

  like something out of a 1950s sci-fi [TS]

  movie that doesn't even look real [TS]

  anymore [TS]

  it looks like it's a prop on a very very [TS]

  old film that's absolutely fantastic it [TS]

  looks like that track ball in the center [TS]

  is enormously well-used based on the [TS]

  wearing pattern of the metal in front of [TS]

  it [TS]

  I don't know where this is going to end [TS]

  gray we started with the actor now we've [TS]

  got the person the actor was portraying [TS]

  who what are we going to have next the [TS]

  pilots of the fighter jets if you're [TS]

  listening app pilots of the fighter jets [TS]

  I feel like certainly this rabbit hole [TS]

  has to end somewhere but I also feel [TS]

  like there's definitely a lesson here [TS]

  for people sending you to listen to her [TS]

  photos like they've learned the real way [TS]

  to get through this is to buy his senior [TS]

  photos towards Brady it's also show [TS]

  proper deference in the beginning when [TS]

  you address him [TS]

  can I just say this and I say this all [TS]

  the time I do read all these emails that [TS]

  come in and look at your pictures I [TS]

  don't reply to the mall because if I [TS]

  don't fly straight away I kind of can't [TS]

  who but do send them they do get looked [TS]

  and I have got a few in my kind of war [TS]

  chest to bring up later on so if you [TS]

  haven't made it onto the show yet [TS]

  that means either i didn't use it gray [TS]

  cut it or you still might be coming [TS]

  look at you setting up false hope for [TS]

  the masses to be fair it's pretty [TS]

  unlikely you gonna get on the show if [TS]

  you sent it more than a few months ago [TS]

  but this is fantastic follow-up we [TS]

  continue to go deeper into the rabbit [TS]

  hole we are going to perfect it is a [TS]

  little bit amazing isn't it [TS]

  it is more than a little bit amazing [TS]

  okay and on our list of follow-up we [TS]

  also have what I feel like is again [TS]

  feeding into the very eager of the show [TS]

  that things we discuss seem to happen in [TS]

  the world after we discuss them and sure [TS]

  enough after we discussed your idea [TS]

  about alien life the reveal of it [TS]

  becoming boring through a series of [TS]

  press conferences that inch toward the [TS]

  actual reveal just a couple days after [TS]

  the show [TS]

  there was an article called this is not [TS]

  a drill city is investigating possible [TS]

  extraterrestrial signal from deep space [TS]

  the aliens are reaching out to hello [TS]

  Internet this is nuts and i have to say [TS]

  i did feel very very vindicated by this [TS]

  little new story that happened not hours [TS]

  after many people have listened to last [TS]

  FFL internet for those who missed this [TS]

  and you could well have missed the first [TS]

  contact because it was a pretty low-key [TS]

  story basically i think it was some [TS]

  russian astronomers yes reported a [TS]

  signal coming from a star which looks [TS]

  like a you know could be alien in origin [TS]

  and it was all this excitement it did [TS]

  make the front page of a couple of [TS]

  reputable newspapers and it was a big [TS]

  story it was cloaked in the suspicion [TS]

  that always does seem to click some [TS]

  announcements that come from Russia who [TS]

  like because it wasn't shared with the [TS]

  scientific community in a timely manner [TS]

  so it could be checked and therefore [TS]

  people were like we'll hang on [TS]

  why are they being secretive about it [TS]

  and sure enough a few days later the [TS]

  authorities and Russia themselves I [TS]

  think basically said are actually we now [TS]

  think this was probably not aliens it [TS]

  was probably to rest riyal in origin who [TS]

  so the story went away and just like I [TS]

  said false alarms minor announcements [TS]

  reviews when we finally here ETA it's [TS]

  going to be like this it's going to be [TS]

  boring i totally agree this is one of [TS]

  these things where I through an [TS]

  avalanche of people on Twitter received [TS]

  news of this story about like there's a [TS]

  signal that might be intelligent life [TS]

  out there in the universe so i received [TS]

  it like tons of stuff about this story [TS]

  and then as always goes with these [TS]

  things that you don't hear any of the [TS]

  follow-up so I was not aware of like oh [TS]

  now just like every other time we think [TS]

  it's some kind of signal bounced off [TS]

  earth or it's something else in the [TS]

  universe like a look we've discovered [TS]

  quasars you know whatever it is it turns [TS]

  out to be reasonably uninteresting but [TS]

  what it makes me think of which i'm [TS]

  pretty sure have said before on the show [TS]

  but I was always surprised by when I did [TS]

  the space topic with my students the [TS]

  number of students that thought humans [TS]

  had already been on Mars and any news of [TS]

  like oh we're working towards going on [TS]

  Mars was totally uninteresting to them [TS]

  because they're like hasn't this already [TS]

  happened [TS]

  I wonder with press releases like this [TS]

  or things that go out how many people [TS]

  just like somewhere in the back of their [TS]

  mind might be thinking like didn't we [TS]

  already discover aliens like how is this [TS]

  even knew that this happened a long time [TS]

  ago that discussion we had last time [TS]

  came in handy actually because I've [TS]

  actually just been on holiday the last [TS]

  45 days [TS]

  oh yeah i was actually up in the [TS]

  mountains near Marrakech again where I [TS]

  sometimes go with my wife and have very [TS]

  clear skies they are not and we went [TS]

  outside like on sun loungers and we just [TS]

  were looking at the stars with sometimes [TS]

  just go and look at the stars and see if [TS]

  we can spot a couple shooting stars and [TS]

  things like that and see if we can see a [TS]

  satellite or the space station [TS]

  it's really cool actually because they [TS]

  give you the special cloaks you can put [TS]

  out when you go outside and not they [TS]

  look just like Jedi cloaks they're like [TS]

  brown and I've got a hood so it's like [TS]

  you two Jedi is just going out to look [TS]

  up at the stars [TS]

  these are the hood that you have sent [TS]

  pictures of yourself pretending to be a [TS]

  Jedi in right like this is these clocks [TS]

  which is what you go to this place yes [TS]

  pretend village at i basically it's like [TS]

  Jedi so yeah so anyway we were lying [TS]

  there on the sunday and just looking up [TS]

  at the sky old stars and you know my [TS]

  wife doesn't listen to hello internet [TS]

  and but I leaned over and said I've got [TS]

  something for you to listen to and i [TS]

  just played her the section of hello [TS]

  Internet why do you beware way and in [TS]

  particular you talked about looking up [TS]

  at the sky and how like menacing it [TS]

  could be because it's so suspiciously [TS]

  silent men is this a sign that there's [TS]

  like a reason that silent up there like [TS]

  should we be shutting up so I should [TS]

  have listened to this and i played it [TS]

  what was the reaction like why would you [TS]

  do this [TS]

  I don't know my wife it does quite like [TS]

  conspiracy theory stuff sometimes I [TS]

  thought she'd like it when she asked a [TS]

  few questions and made a few comments [TS]

  but overall I think the final conclusion [TS]

  was I have enough stuff in the world to [TS]

  worry about it we are worried about it [TS]

  in the board coming head and destroying [TS]

  the earth like there's not much I can do [TS]

  about that and I think her main [TS]

  sentiment was why the heck if you put [TS]

  that idea in my head now so that when i [TS]

  look at the sky i can think about that [TS]

  too [TS]

  I feel like that's my job sometimes [TS]

  again I can plant an idea in someone's [TS]

  head that never goes away I feel like [TS]

  missing the cartilage to it does beg the [TS]

  question why you worried about it though [TS]

  because you're mr. you know i won't [TS]

  recycle or use one towel because i can't [TS]

  make a difference to the environment [TS]

  well you sure as heck can't make a [TS]

  difference to the electromagnetic [TS]

  radiation that humans are sending out [TS]

  into the universe or how the universe [TS]

  will respond to that electromagnetic [TS]

  radiation so what the heck you even [TS]

  thinking about that for [TS]

  I mean isn't this would worries are [TS]

  thoughts that pop up irrationally [TS]

  sometimes that's what I worry is this [TS]

  like I'm perfectly well aware there's [TS]

  nothing I can do to save humanity from [TS]

  the apocalypse of the abyss that's [TS]

  coming [TS]

  there's nothing I can do about that it's [TS]

  just a thing that your mind turns to on [TS]

  occasion but that's what we're doing is [TS]

  Brady [TS]

  cgpgrey being irrational my whole belief [TS]

  system is crumbling down around me I [TS]

  feel like anybody who has listen to this [TS]

  podcast long enough can find plenty of [TS]

  examples of me not being perfectly [TS]

  rational i don't think this is like a [TS]

  rare instance [TS]

  okay well that's a nice little segue for [TS]

  us to talk about the Apple watch [TS]

  oh haha ok you want to beat me up about [TS]

  the Apple watch again let's go [TS]

  I do because this is my ongoing crusade [TS]

  to save your horological so I sort of [TS]

  picture the other day that horrified me [TS]

  and I sent it to you deny you sent me a [TS]

  picture it was like some group of [TS]

  politicians in a press conference room [TS]

  somewhere and one of them was wearing an [TS]

  apple watching and you thought this was [TS]

  like a horrifying thing to send me that [TS]

  I would just recoil from and I don't [TS]

  know why it was all these important [TS]

  people sitting around the table in the [TS]

  Cabinet Room the Prime Minister there [TS]

  and they're all wearing what seemed to [TS]

  me to be quite nice sensible dignified [TS]

  classy watches and then there's just one [TS]

  minister there with her [TS]

  Tonka truck play watch it just stands [TS]

  out like something it stands out like a [TS]

  woman who knows what she's doing who's [TS]

  on top of the latest trends and [TS]

  technology is always connected if she [TS]

  needs to be when i see the apple watch [TS]

  on her wrist [TS]

  I assume she's the most competent person [TS]

  in the room i think that's the message [TS]

  the apple watch sentence be honest with [TS]

  me cry when you look at actually it's [TS]

  not like that which is at the tip you're [TS]

  always like no beyond his with me you [TS]

  always open with that because you cannot [TS]

  believe my actual parts at do you really [TS]

  think that looks good i think it looks [TS]

  perfectly fine and i think you just [TS]

  making a mountain out of nothing here [TS]

  Brady it's like people wear watches [TS]

  people where smartwatches I think it's [TS]

  perfectly fine i'm not a big fan of the [TS]

  white band but i would be not a fan of a [TS]

  white band on almost any watch so I feel [TS]

  like that's besides the point here you [TS]

  have an issue with what you refer to [TS]

  constantly as the Dead face of the Apple [TS]

  watch which to me just doesn't register [TS]

  as that it's not the Dead face that [TS]

  bothers me [TS]

  what bothers you still that you just [TS]

  can't let go at [TS]

  it just doesn't look good it doesn't it [TS]

  looks it's the wrong shape and I don't [TS]

  know it looks like someone's trying to [TS]

  where you know computer on their hand [TS]

  and that's exactly what they're doing [TS]

  yeah I know well tell me about the new [TS]

  one there was a big apple announcement [TS]

  wasn't there did you watch the Apple k [TS]

  night this week [TS]

  yeah as we are recording the apple [TS]

  keynote was last night and as usual and [TS]

  you like to try to set aside time to [TS]

  watch these things because I'm always [TS]

  very interested in what's going to [TS]

  happen so sit back relax have a glass of [TS]

  wine see what Tim Cook brings forth for [TS]

  the masses before we talk about what was [TS]

  brought forth can I just say my god i'm [TS]

  familiar with apple keynote and I've [TS]

  seen bits of them the floor but i don't [TS]

  usually watch them and I dipped into [TS]

  this one because I thought I have a [TS]

  quick look and see what's going on em [TS]

  because i saw on twitter that was on my [TS]

  goodness what an outdated car crash that [TS]

  presentation for me is it was so bad it [TS]

  looks like a parody i think i said at [TS]

  the time it looks like an onion spoof of [TS]

  a TEDTalk mm it's also earnest and so [TS]

  like everything's awesome and thanks Tim [TS]

  I'm so proud to be up here and tell you [TS]

  about what we're doing and it's such an [TS]

  antiquated way for a big technology [TS]

  company to be announcing things to the [TS]

  world it's like some kind of school [TS]

  variety show where the principal says [TS]

  okay everyone now i'm going to introduce [TS]

  little Jimmy that I'm not working really [TS]

  hard all week on this is written this [TS]

  power for you i want you all to listen [TS]

  really carefully now everyone let's give [TS]

  Jimmy a big clap as he cums on the stage [TS]

  yeah Jimmy Jimmy and then Jimmy comes [TS]

  out says thanks to him I am so proud to [TS]

  be here i have been learning my lines [TS]

  off by heart and i have been told where [TS]

  to look and how to move my body in the [TS]

  right way to do this demonstration here [TS]

  is my announcement [TS]

  thank you very much clap clap thanks [TS]

  Jimmy [TS]

  that was awesome now he is sandy it's [TS]

  like I can't believe these are like [TS]

  multi-millionaires leading the bigger [TS]

  technology company in the world it's [TS]

  horrendous I'm genuinely curious what do [TS]

  you think would be a better way to do [TS]

  this well I don't see why it has to be [TS]

  done in this live show kinda way for a [TS]

  start but em like I think the cool thing [TS]

  to do would be just have them appear in [TS]

  the store but of course then you've got [TS]

  to fade the media but at the same time [TS]

  that they just appear in the store you [TS]

  would feed the media what they need and [TS]

  of course you've got to put Tim Cook [TS]

  forward so that there's someone to put [TS]

  on the TV news and he has to hold the [TS]

  objects i get there has to be footage [TS]

  but this parade of people onstage [TS]

  prancing around like they're doing [TS]

  tedtalks i find it completely [TS]

  cringe-worthy and in terms of getting [TS]

  media time I don't see the TV use very [TS]

  often using like all those crappy [TS]

  tedtalks anyway they're only going to [TS]

  use a few clips from the boss anyway I [TS]

  think it's silly I don't understand [TS]

  tell me what school or tell me what's [TS]

  the way to do it see the thing is I [TS]

  don't know if I really disagree with you [TS]

  and I feel like Apple has had a couple [TS]

  of these in a row that were not great i [TS]

  think it last night's one was kind of [TS]

  boring just from an announcement [TS]

  perspective like they didn't really have [TS]

  a whole lot new to talk about that they [TS]

  certainly were kind of trying to present [TS]

  it that way but it's funny because I was [TS]

  kind of actually thinking something [TS]

  similar to what you were thinking about [TS]

  like boy this is very low information [TS]

  density like the number of bullet points [TS]

  that i'm going to get out of this [TS]

  presentation does not represent the two [TS]

  hours long that it is and i do have to [TS]

  say a bunch of the presenters felt super [TS]

  rehearsing and it's always like I can't [TS]

  blame them for that because I imagine if [TS]

  you're speaking on behalf of what is [TS]

  sometimes the world's most valuable [TS]

  company [TS]

  you can't go out there and kind of wing [TS]

  it like I'm sure absolutely everything [TS]

  has to be totally approved i think the [TS]

  reason that it happens is because they [TS]

  want an event to gather together all of [TS]

  the press people who immediately after [TS]

  that event they make the devices [TS]

  available for everybody [TS]

  the press to try them out and to shoot [TS]

  their reviews and to put up like first [TS]

  impressions you know this kind of thing [TS]

  like I think that's why it's there so [TS]

  that they can get someone like mkbhd to [TS]

  come to San Francisco to see the event [TS]

  and then to talk about the device on his [TS]

  youtube channel like an hour later and I [TS]

  think that their goal with those [TS]

  presentations is to try to like shape [TS]

  the mind of the media people before they [TS]

  see the thing that's my guess anyway I [TS]

  feel like if I was in charge of Apple [TS]

  like that's what I've been trying to do [TS]

  like I want to influence the media [TS]

  people to think about the phone in this [TS]

  way right not in some other way [TS]

  well that makes sense grow and I can see [TS]

  why they would want to do that i just [TS]

  think they could do a bit cooler i mean [TS]

  i know a lot of people hate on apple and [TS]

  a lot of people love them i tend to [TS]

  think most things that will do it pretty [TS]

  cool mmm i think most of their devices [TS]

  are cool i think the shops of cool [TS]

  places staffed by you know kind of young [TS]

  people and that and I think this is the [TS]

  one time every year that Apple seems [TS]

  like it's a bunch of corny dad's at work [TS]

  and it's the coldest thing Apple does i [TS]

  take it that you didn't see the very [TS]

  opening of this event then now I've read [TS]

  about that was a carpool karaoke thing [TS]

  but I'm scared to look at a car crash [TS]

  that obey it was totally baffling to me [TS]

  because i have never heard of carpool [TS]

  karaoke I have no idea what this thing [TS]

  is and when i started watching [TS]

  advantages like Tim Cook is in a car [TS]

  singing Sweet Home Alabama and they're [TS]

  just bantering about stuff is like oh [TS]

  god I don't know what this is but this [TS]

  is horrified like this is not this isn't [TS]

  a good way to start things guides [TS]

  I mean I like carpool karaoke I think [TS]

  they're pretty cool but there's no way I [TS]

  want to watch them cook doing it because [TS]

  I know how bad that ok I've got nothing [TS]

  against tim cook but he's not cool [TS]

  yeah i think he is a as far as i can [TS]

  tell like fantastic operations guy but [TS]

  yak cool he is not and he also has the [TS]

  problem of not quite passing the [TS]

  Maryland point of being uncool enough [TS]

  that he becomes cool um ok [TS]

  which-which built liability idea that [TS]

  people never it's like watching him and [TS]

  carpool karaoke my feeling was oh god [TS]

  you're inches away from the Maryland [TS]

  point but on the wrong side of this so i [TS]

  am actually just very uncomfortable [TS]

  watching this [TS]

  yeah I don't think Tim Cook celebrates [TS]

  his uncoolness the way that someone like [TS]

  Bill Gates does you know I think Tim [TS]

  Cook thinks he's kinda cool and he [TS]

  should realize he's not and celebrate [TS]

  that [TS]

  yeah you never know that the minds of [TS]

  other people i mean i feel like it takes [TS]

  a lot of guts to do something like that [TS]

  because he's gonna know that he's not [TS]

  cool and just do carpool karaoke anyway [TS]

  because it's kind of fun although i [TS]

  always find Apple a bit cringe-worthy [TS]

  when they say bring on celebrities and [TS]

  whose feels like Apple becomes a little [TS]

  bit of a screaming fangirl all of a [TS]

  sudden when they bring out like look [TS]

  it's bona alright look it's this guy in [TS]

  the car who somebody else is coming in [TS]

  the car like look at all of these [TS]

  celebrities who love Apple I mean I'm no [TS]

  expert here and i can get found out for [TS]

  my lack of Apple knowledge but I feel [TS]

  like in recent years they've been taken [TS]

  a beating for choosing slightly uncool [TS]

  celebrities that Tim Cook think so cool [TS]

  so it's like people like Bono and [TS]

  Coldplay and that whoever there is a [TS]

  little bit of our that's kind of how [TS]

  your dad's into exactly [TS]

  obviously this year's someone has gotten [TS]

  in there and said Nana we're not having [TS]

  the BGC at him with what you have to do [TS]

  is you have to get that James Corden [TS]

  going because everybody's talking about [TS]

  him he's big on YouTube anybody who's [TS]

  anybody is going into his car that's [TS]

  what we've got to do so i think this has [TS]

  been a desperate attempt to make Tim [TS]

  Cook look a bit more relevant to young [TS]

  people and I don't know I don't know how [TS]

  well it worked but I think that's what [TS]

  they were trying to do i'm not sure it [TS]

  works i'm not sure if that was their [TS]

  goal but i do have to totally agree with [TS]

  you that this one was I felt in a lot of [TS]

  points like the presenters were a bit [TS]

  awkward [TS]

  it felt kind of rushed or just not like [TS]

  a smooth machine and it is always weird [TS]

  when they turn over the stage to another [TS]

  person and then bring it back and thank [TS]

  you have just planted into my mind the [TS]

  idea that it's a school principal like [TS]

  pointing to [TS]

  Timmy who's going to do a presentation I [TS]

  will never not have that in my mind now [TS]

  when Tim Cook like hands it over to [TS]

  somebody else like she is she's been [TS]

  practicing for two weeks and we don't [TS]

  look like she's been practicing for [TS]

  three weeks as well that is gonna be my [TS]

  mind every time now so thanks for that [TS]

  but it's going to be in my mind because [TS]

  there's something about it which is true [TS]

  even though before I was trying to make [TS]

  the argument that when I think they're [TS]

  really doing is trying to sway the minds [TS]

  of the media before they see the devices [TS]

  hmm I wonder like does it really matter [TS]

  i mean i know this goes into my biases [TS]

  of like I think people overestimate the [TS]

  importance of news stories or like media [TS]

  reports on things of course there's no [TS]

  way to now but it's like let's say all [TS]

  of the media comes out and just slams [TS]

  the next iphone how many people will [TS]

  care [TS]

  like what would that translate into in [TS]

  terms of percentage change in sale of [TS]

  iphones like I just don't know I almost [TS]

  wonder like is this whole thing worth [TS]

  doing that does matter i think [TS]

  word-of-mouth matters like over [TS]

  breakfast tomorrow when we're talking [TS]

  about are we going to upgrade our [TS]

  iphones you so apparently it's pretty [TS]

  crap that's what i saw in the paper that [TS]

  can be enough to stop someone buying a [TS]

  fine [TS]

  oh yeah apparently it's a bit crappy [TS]

  apparently he's uglier than the other [TS]

  ones like those headline things do [TS]

  matter [TS]

  I think shaping and crafting the message [TS]

  is important actually as skeptical as [TS]

  I'm about and I think you know PR is [TS]

  evil and I can see why they do it and I [TS]

  say what's important [TS]

  I just think the way they're doing it is [TS]

  bad and you and I have been talking for [TS]

  20 minutes about how uncool apolis it's [TS]

  true I guess I should rephrase my [TS]

  earlier point because if you say [TS]

  something like oh the new phone is bad [TS]

  like okay people won't buy it but what I [TS]

  mean is what is the percentage that [TS]

  Apple can possibly move the minds of the [TS]

  people who are going to be viewing the [TS]

  phone anyway right in one direction or [TS]

  another I know that I agree with if [TS]

  you've had your plane ticket paid for [TS]

  and you've been wined and dined and [TS]

  you're getting five seconds of face time [TS]

  with Tim coozeman past you in the [TS]

  corridor that's powerful stuff [TS]

  yeah like journalists are very [TS]

  susceptible to junkets and freebase [TS]

  everybody is like it's so easy to show [TS]

  that like the trivial list of gifts [TS]

  influences people's minds even if they [TS]

  don't think that it does like you just [TS]

  can't not have this happen and this is [TS]

  why companies like to give stuff to [TS]

  people like to just review even just [TS]

  receiving the thing for free like no [TS]

  matter how much you try it does have a [TS]

  little bit of an influence yeah on your [TS]

  mind like it can't not the thing that I [TS]

  wonder with those presentations is [TS]

  almost always feel relief when they kind [TS]

  of cut away from the actual presentation [TS]

  to the pre-made videos [TS]

  they'll have like here's a little video [TS]

  about the new iphone which would like [TS]

  try to encapsulate everything in two [TS]

  minutes and here's a little video about [TS]

  the Apple watch when i found myself [TS]

  wondering last night was what if you [TS]

  just did the videos like what if you [TS]

  just drop those videos on YouTube and [TS]

  that was it and then phone show up in [TS]

  the store the next day how much of a [TS]

  difference would that mean I can see why [TS]

  they need an excuse to get the important [TS]

  people in one place like you said [TS]

  earlier I can't see that and i can see [TS]

  what needs to become an event like the [TS]

  Super Bowl you know that where people [TS]

  come together and there are parties the [TS]

  night before and not just to hold the [TS]

  things but just to bring people together [TS]

  in the feeling that this is an occasion [TS]

  this is important enough that we all [TS]

  need to be reporting on it and all the [TS]

  other journalists here reporting on it [TS]

  so i need to be reporting on i agree [TS]

  with that I just think they're format is [TS]

  looking really tired they upgrade [TS]

  everything else they do every 20 seconds [TS]

  and yet they won't upgrade this boring [TS]

  old format of this [TS]

  k night what upgrades you want them to [TS]

  do that like shorter fewer handoffs what [TS]

  you wanted a great if I was that smile [TS]

  probably wouldn't be here doing a [TS]

  podcast with you I'd be some millionaire [TS]

  consultant in America better i don't [TS]

  know what the solution is I just know [TS]

  that what they're doing [TS]

  looks terrible I couldn't watch [TS]

  embarrassed for them [TS]

  how are you everyone super thanks for [TS]

  asking [TS]

  this is amazing that was fabulous [TS]

  just to be clear that the listeners like [TS]

  even though I've been kind of agreeing [TS]

  with you that this year wasn't a [TS]

  particularly great presentation like [TS]

  maybe the change some things up next [TS]

  year [TS]

  I do personally like watching it because [TS]

  i'm really interested in this and I [TS]

  think there's always a fun game which is [TS]

  the speculate what is going on inside [TS]

  Apple game based on like what you see on [TS]

  the outside and what they say that kind [TS]

  of Criminology is a thing that I am just [TS]

  interested in with regards to apple and [TS]

  as always there's no explaining any [TS]

  interest like that's why I will sit down [TS]

  and I'll watch it like and I am kind of [TS]

  very curious about the details like [TS]

  who's doing what [TS]

  what things are they choosing to focus [TS]

  on right I I like all of that stuff [TS]

  this is me being like someone who's a [TS]

  policy wonk and who is super into the [TS]

  details of like a particular candidates [TS]

  platform like what do they think about [TS]

  this you know what are they gonna do [TS]

  with that i am aware like outside of [TS]

  myself and a relatively small group of [TS]

  people like most of the world doesn't [TS]

  care [TS]

  I think they're just gonna be like oh [TS]

  there's a new phone in the store when [TS]

  they walk by and they see it in the [TS]

  window like that is essentially [TS]

  everybody's experience i don't agree [TS]

  with that there's a new phone in the [TS]

  window thing i do you think people are [TS]

  aware that when apple announced what the [TS]

  new phone is all the new computers or [TS]

  the new technologies it is like an event [TS]

  people do know that but my wife I said [TS]

  to my wife are the new iphones are [TS]

  coming out soon because it was in my [TS]

  head and she said yes being announced on [TS]

  September seven so like people do know [TS]

  it's an event and a time of the year and [TS]

  that and so Apple have been smart to do [TS]

  that and like i said i agree with making [TS]

  a big who hired a big event and maybe [TS]

  even doing something that gives the [TS]

  Apple nodes that you some kind of [TS]

  glimpse then maybe just do it better and [TS]

  that's always the best advice just do it [TS]

  better at the things you're not doing [TS]

  well don't do those two things better [TS]

  so in terms of the actual announcements [TS]

  anything worth knowing i know there's a [TS]

  new version of the watch that's not much [TS]

  different and the phone is waterproof [TS]

  and the microphone jacks on the way out [TS]

  that seems to be all i know yeah people [TS]

  are really upset about the headphone [TS]

  jack like that's that's kind of a big [TS]

  story i guess but this one I just felt [TS]

  like there was not really anything of [TS]

  note [TS]

  it's like they've made a phone that's [TS]

  the exact same size as the phone before [TS]

  and they're like oh it's faster ok sure [TS]

  it's faster I can understand they have a [TS]

  new camera on it but it just to me and [TS]

  it's it just seemed like there wasn't [TS]

  really anything of supernote like I'm [TS]

  glad there's a new version of the Apple [TS]

  watch which is coming out again like [TS]

  it's a little faster but nothing of [TS]

  supernote and I feel like the past to [TS]

  apple events have been this way for me [TS]

  of like oh there's new things you have [TS]

  some new hardware and the new version of [TS]

  your operating system is coming out but [TS]

  it just feels like nothing for me in [TS]

  these last two apple events like over to [TS]

  on significant interesting wow I can't [TS]

  wait to get my hands on that kind of [TS]

  exciting stuff [TS]

  this comes just a little boring an apple [TS]

  world you still buy everything and [TS]

  upgrade everything presumably i'm going [TS]

  to get the new watch [TS]

  but i don't think i'm gonna get the new [TS]

  phone as we discussed before like I'm [TS]

  very happy with my small size phone i [TS]

  really like it i might have been tempted [TS]

  away back to the 6 plus which i think is [TS]

  the only other reasonable size if they [TS]

  had actually made it smaller and [TS]

  significantly lighter but this is like [TS]

  the one year i'm thinking like if Apple [TS]

  makes the phone a little bit smaller a [TS]

  little bit lighter i might go back [TS]

  this is like the first year ever that [TS]

  Apple's like no exact same size hope you [TS]

  like it [TS]

  so no new phone for me this time around [TS]

  are you gonna be sticking with your SE I [TS]

  am I am starting to have a few [TS]

  annoyances with that [TS]

  oh yeah like what yeah but mainly typing [TS]

  I feel like I'm making more typing [TS]

  errors and I am butt dialing with a more [TS]

  often for some reason and things like [TS]

  that and I seem to be miss pressing and [TS]

  having problems with it more but that [TS]

  also could because I've done away with [TS]

  the case [TS]

  mhm I didn't tell you my funny but tile [TS]

  story is what I don't really know how [TS]

  but dialing happens but please tell me [TS]

  your butt dials do I know this isn't [TS]

  exactly about dial story but this is [TS]

  kind of like that [TS]

  ok I was a wedding actually recently and [TS]

  I was with Destin em Destin who is from [TS]

  the youtube channel smarter every day [TS]

  for people who don't know and he is a [TS]

  great disciple of snapchat as we've [TS]

  discussed before him and we were playing [TS]

  on [TS]

  snapchat together and we were making [TS]

  funny videos and we were just clowning [TS]

  around and suddenly my phone made a [TS]

  noise that I've never heard before like [TS]

  an alert like some strange noise [TS]

  hmm and I didn't know what was going on [TS]

  and I was touching the screen and try to [TS]

  make it go away and I didn't know what's [TS]

  going on and I touch something because [TS]

  it went away and I was like what the [TS]

  heck was there and then I was sort of [TS]

  looking at the phone and the snapchat [TS]

  app was open and I was looking at the [TS]

  apt to try and figure out what was going [TS]

  on and then I saw that someone had tried [TS]

  to call me using snapchat snapchat turns [TS]

  out has this kind of phone voice thing [TS]

  that you can do to call people and this [TS]

  was news to me and I was like destiny [TS]

  look man [TS]

  someone tried to call me some stranger's [TS]

  tried to call me that's outrageous [TS]

  like I didn't even know that could [TS]

  happen and Destin was kind of looking [TS]

  going on and what's going on and then [TS]

  suddenly this voice comes out of the [TS]

  phone saying our hi I'm here and I [TS]

  didn't call you you code me and like [TS]

  what had happened was like some stranger [TS]

  who snap i looked at or something quite [TS]

  obviously just press some button next to [TS]

  that person's name to phone them out of [TS]

  the blue they haven't known what's going [TS]

  on [TS]

  they've answered the phone and there's [TS]

  me saying could you believe some [TS]

  stranger's tried to call me this is [TS]

  outrageous and test and i were talking [TS]

  about and he was just like the poor sod [TS]

  was just there listening to us talking [TS]

  and he was like why I didn't I didn't [TS]

  call you and then I was like who is this [TS]

  and he said he was and we had a chat and [TS]

  I'm like oh I'm here with destiny was [TS]

  like that's great and we ended up having [TS]

  a chair with him [TS]

  oh haha i was super apologetic because i [TS]

  was just a total ham-fisted idiot who [TS]

  interrupted this poor persons day but we [TS]

  had a chat to him for a while that was [TS]

  nice and then I was like well anyway so [TS]

  sorry about Latin and hang up [TS]

  I mean to be fair if it's snapchat this [TS]

  is not fun dialing this is just you [TS]

  pressed one of their unlabeled [TS]

  hieroglyphics or you swiped wrong on the [TS]

  screen right who knows is the controls [TS]

  of the spaceship and alien race like you [TS]

  press a button and it means we're going [TS]

  to cause a random [TS]

  anyway it was really nice about it and [TS]

  I'm our medical for myself but another [TS]

  pitfall of snapchat careful it's not [TS]

  just accidentally following people or [TS]

  accidentally things like that now she [TS]

  can accidentally phone someone and not [TS]

  know your phone them and then they're [TS]

  listening to you talk right [TS]

  great more and more reasons to use [TS]

  snapchat every day although this makes [TS]

  me think [TS]

  are you one of those people Brady who if [TS]

  you are talking about someone who's not [TS]

  in the room feels the need to check [TS]

  their phone to make sure that their [TS]

  phone isn't on and hasn't called the [TS]

  person do you do this i am not but I did [TS]

  have a friend who used to do that [TS]

  because he got burned by he was talking [TS]

  negatively about someone and he had butt [TS]

  dialed that person and i was listening [TS]

  to him i was about to launch into a like [TS]

  boy isn't this a ridiculous thing that [TS]

  people worry about like I know several [TS]

  people who do this and I always find [TS]

  it's just the strange behavior ever but [TS]

  you're telling me you actually know [TS]

  someone this happened to thinking maybe [TS]

  this is the thing that's not so [TS]

  incredible I mean to be fair it was his [TS]

  girlfriend at the time and if there's [TS]

  one person you're likely to accidentally [TS]

  call it probably girlfriend because [TS]

  she's not going to be the last person [TS]

  you find and if there's someone you're [TS]

  likely to be talking about behind their [TS]

  back it could also be your girlfriend so [TS]

  while it's incredibly unlucky if it was [TS]

  ever going to happen that would be one [TS]

  of the more likely scenarios so I think [TS]

  he was saying things about his [TS]

  girlfriend that were not complementary [TS]

  and she was listening from his pocket so [TS]

  from that time on whenever we were out [TS]

  like at bars and things like that if he [TS]

  was talking about anyone he took his [TS]

  phone out of his pocket and had a look [TS]

  first [TS]

  wow I can't believe you know some of [TS]

  this actually happened to that's amazing [TS]

  to me if someone accidentally called you [TS]

  and they were talking about you would [TS]

  you feel any responsibility to yell out [TS]

  hey I'm right here listening to you or [TS]

  we do it quietly listen the whole time I [TS]

  don't know what I would do like if I do [TS]

  get dialed occasionally and i actually [TS]

  but doubt someone I work with the other [TS]

  day and like they called me back and I [TS]

  didn't know I'd call them and I'd been [TS]

  out of bar being really Larry to say [TS]

  goodness knows what they heard [TS]

  but I accidentally once but Dad someone [TS]

  who I work with and I was in a really [TS]

  important business meeting talking about [TS]

  that person and like deals and things [TS]

  and they knew i was in this meeting and [TS]

  you know who this person is and they set [TS]

  there and listen to the whole meeting [TS]

  and then afterward spoke to me about it [TS]

  I feel like you're this amazing [TS]

  epicenter of this thing actually [TS]

  occurring rejected the cylinders like an [TS]

  urban legend think it was occurs i will [TS]

  confess to one thing em back in my [TS]

  journalist days i did have like a [TS]

  contact who would sometimes help me with [TS]

  information and tell me stories that I [TS]

  wasn't yet supposed to know about em and [TS]

  this person accidentally found me once [TS]

  from their bag but I wasn't sure if [TS]

  they'd find me accidentally or they had [TS]

  fine because they wanted me to hear [TS]

  something important so I did stay on the [TS]

  phone for a few minutes just in case [TS]

  like I was supposed to hear some amazing [TS]

  information but it turns out they were [TS]

  shopping and walking around town and [TS]

  after two or three minutes sounds like [TS]

  RK that's an accident it wasn't a [TS]

  meeting with the Illuminati and you were [TS]

  here the only reporter who was going to [TS]

  get the story out there exactly but you [TS]

  never know [TS]

  so I did stick with that one for a few [TS]

  minutes until i realized now they just [TS]

  start walking around [TS]

  hello Internet today i have a book [TS]

  recommendation for you which means that [TS]

  of course this podcast is brought to you [TS]

  in part by none other than audible.com [TS]

  who has more than 180,000 audiobooks and [TS]

  spoken word audio products for you to [TS]

  listen to now today's recommendation is [TS]

  how to get filthy rich in rising asia [TS]

  it's a weird title for a weird book but [TS]

  boy did I like this one it's a novel and [TS]

  just as with the movies that we want for [TS]

  homework I think novels are best [TS]

  appreciated cold without really any [TS]

  introduction to the plot or the details [TS]

  but i will say that how to get filthy [TS]

  rich in rising asia is written in the [TS]

  second person which means that instead [TS]

  of most books which are written either [TS]

  from the first person I or from the [TS]

  third person he or she [TS]

  this one is written from the second [TS]

  person you so when you're listening to [TS]

  this book from audible you will be [TS]

  hearing how you woke up [TS]

  in the morning and you went to do [TS]

  something now I know you're thinking [TS]

  that probably sounds like a terrible way [TS]

  to write a book and the last time you [TS]

  read something like that was almost [TS]

  certainly in some awful english class [TS]

  where they forced you to read an overly [TS]

  artsy and terribly boring piece of [TS]

  writing like that but trust me how to [TS]

  get filthy rich in rising asia i like it [TS]

  way more than i expected that I would [TS]

  and I found it really quite affecting so [TS]

  check it out at audible.com that's where [TS]

  I get all of my audio books it's where [TS]

  you should get all of your audio books [TS]

  because they are just fantastic [TS]

  if you go to audible.com / hello [TS]

  internet you'll get a free 30-day trial [TS]

  so that you can give this book [TS]

  listen or try some of the other ones [TS]

  that they have and i really do hope that [TS]

  you try audible if you haven't already [TS]

  have just a bunch of features that i [TS]

  really like I mean obviously it's just [TS]

  an enormous catalog of things to pick [TS]

  from so there's always something to [TS]

  listen to what I really like is I feel [TS]

  super free to just try a book like this [TS]

  one how to get filthy rich in rising [TS]

  asia which maybe i'm not going to like [TS]

  it all but if I don't like it I can just [TS]

  return it they have a kind of no [TS]

  questions asked return policy on audio [TS]

  books which I have definitely taken [TS]

  advantage of more than once when [TS]

  something is terrible [TS]

  you can listen to their audio books on [TS]

  any device at any time they make players [TS]

  for just about everything so if you are [TS]

  listening to this podcast and you have [TS]

  never given audiobooks a try [TS]

  trust me they are thing that's going to [TS]

  bring value into your life and if you're [TS]

  listening to podcast you should totally [TS]

  listen to audiobooks so right now go to [TS]

  audible.com / hello internet and sign up [TS]

  for your free 30-day trial membership [TS]

  download a title and start listening and [TS]

  thanks to audible for supporting the [TS]

  show so gray something that doesn't [TS]

  often happen to you you have been a [TS]

  victim of rating I feel like in the [TS]

  world of people who put out educational [TS]

  videos i feel like i have been probably [TS]

  one of the luckier people with regards [TS]

  to not getting free booted I think [TS]

  perhaps me Destin is the unluckiest [TS]

  along [TS]

  with your chemistry videos as well like [TS]

  those get free booted all over the place [TS]

  I feel like most of the time i have been [TS]

  relatively getting off scot-free as far [TS]

  as these things go but in the last video [TS]

  that i just put up which was the one [TS]

  about the simple solution to traffic [TS]

  this was perhaps the first time that I [TS]

  saw a video just getting free booted all [TS]

  over facebook just like a ton of [TS]

  different places all posting it and by [TS]

  my rough estimate across all of the [TS]

  various sources it was something like 10 [TS]

  million views on facebook which [TS]

  considering that the video gets like [TS]

  three million views on YouTube which is [TS]

  fantastic but of course as always with [TS]

  the freebooting it does really hurt deep [TS]

  to see your video getting spread in a [TS]

  bunch of other places and you're not [TS]

  really getting any of the rewards that [TS]

  go along with it [TS]

  well I've got a few questions worry [TS]

  about it then moon first of all day if I [TS]

  can make an observation about the video [TS]

  itself [TS]

  this is another excellent example to me [TS]

  of things that I assume everyone knows [TS]

  that maybe they don't know little [TS]

  because i watch that video i thought it [TS]

  was really good well explained and nice [TS]

  that but I thought doesn't everyone know [TS]

  this like this is what causes traffic [TS]

  snarls and it's all human reaction times [TS]

  and I saw these people sharing and [TS]

  tweeting and saying this is amazing [TS]

  great explains this and I'm going to [TS]

  check this out i was like what happened [TS]

  huh right is this news to people [TS]

  gosh I feel like there's a thousand [TS]

  videos waiting to be made now that I [TS]

  thought were worth making all these [TS]

  things I can explain to people that [TS]

  maybe they don't know that i think is an [TS]

  excellent excellent point because this [TS]

  is like a skill i think in making any [TS]

  kind of thing where you're explaining [TS]

  stuff to people on the internet that i [TS]

  often fall on the wrong side of as well [TS]

  where it is super easy to over assume [TS]

  how much other people know about any [TS]

  topic and something that happens to me [TS]

  sometimes when I'm like working on a [TS]

  video is that by the time i get to the [TS]

  end of the research phase was like okay [TS]

  I've read a whole bunch of stuff about [TS]

  this thing actually currently happening [TS]

  with the video I'm working on [TS]

  right now but it's like at the end of [TS]

  this phase i end up with this feeling of [TS]

  well doesn't just everybody know this [TS]

  right it's like Shirley everybody just [TS]

  does [TS]

  it's so easy to over assume that the [TS]

  things you know are the things that [TS]

  everybody else knows [TS]

  doesn't everybody who's got the [TS]

  Antarctic is exactly perfect example is [TS]

  absolutely perfect example [TS]

  it's a thing that I think I'm bad at [TS]

  this but I often try to remind myself [TS]

  like the world contains essentially an [TS]

  infinite amount of knowledge like [TS]

  there's an infinite number of things to [TS]

  know and practically by definition the [TS]

  people who are going to spread this [TS]

  video are going to be the people who [TS]

  didn't know this right like the people [TS]

  who do know this are not going to be [TS]

  people who feel like wow I have to [TS]

  really share this on twitter because [TS]

  it's like a thing that's in their head [TS]

  but I was really uncertain about how [TS]

  this video would do because this was a [TS]

  case where I thought I might be on the [TS]

  wrong side of this i was thinking like I [TS]

  bet enough people don't know this but i [TS]

  might be totally wrong [TS]

  like I might have just made a video [TS]

  called did you know the moon goes around [TS]

  the earth like there's a point at which [TS]

  people don't know that and then there's [TS]

  a point at which people do but you [TS]

  assume like essentially everybody who's [TS]

  old enough to be watching YouTube would [TS]

  know if act like that so there is also a [TS]

  point where you can be a big enough and [TS]

  famous enough explain that everyone will [TS]

  share it to I mean you probably could [TS]

  make the moon goes around the earth just [TS]

  like the resource could make that video [TS]

  and you'd be guaranteed a higher [TS]

  baseline of sharing but yeah but Vsauce [TS]

  would somehow you know connect owed the [TS]

  moon going around the earth and then all [TS]

  of a sudden we be talking about like how [TS]

  bread bakes like it would it would be [TS]

  all over us right at me like oh and then [TS]

  how much does your shadow way like we [TS]

  can measure the shadow of the moon right [TS]

  and like you just know that's how Vsauce [TS]

  video will go i don't think a [TS]

  straightforward video about the moon [TS]

  going around the earth in the same way i [TS]

  made a straightforward video about like [TS]

  how does traffic happen i don't think [TS]

  that would go anywhere unified it so [TS]

  obviously the mistake that you made with [TS]

  your self driving car video is I assume [TS]

  someone else animated for you because it [TS]

  didn't look like your animations vastly [TS]

  beyond my skill level yeah had some very [TS]

  nice [TS]

  visualizations in it which was also very [TS]

  helpful to the videos success i'm sure [TS]

  but it also meant it was suddenly [TS]

  eminently stealable because now it [TS]

  wasn't just some nerdy American guy [TS]

  explaining something cleverly it had [TS]

  pretty pictures and that means [TS]

  freebooters swoop [TS]

  here's some eye candy for us to feed to [TS]

  the masses do you think that was my [TS]

  downfall is that it looked too good and [TS]

  that's why I fallen into the realm of of [TS]

  freebooting well it's not going to look [TS]

  too good it visualized what you're [TS]

  explaining normally your craft and the [TS]

  thing that you do well is you explain [TS]

  things well with words man the animation [TS]

  is almost you know if your little jokes [TS]

  and afterthoughts instantly people [TS]

  occupied but this time the pictures did [TS]

  more than your words did we have [TS]

  pictures that tell the story this time [TS]

  and that's brilliant [TS]

  you know welcome to the medium of video [TS]

  great thank you thank you i genuinely [TS]

  have not really been involved in it like [TS]

  I don't even mean that as a joke again [TS]

  it is true like my videos are not [TS]

  exactly videos in the same way that your [TS]

  videos are video is so while you i am [TS]

  welcoming you to the world of video with [TS]

  open arms i'm also will continue to the [TS]

  world of freebooting they have been out [TS]

  to say so you obviously got free booted [TS]

  like a wild man and i know it because [TS]

  most people who know that you don't [TS]

  really miles and tweets we're alerting [TS]

  me to the free routing of grace video [TS]

  thank you very much for that up is not [TS]

  you don't need to alert me to graze [TS]

  videos being free boat just it's bad [TS]

  enough when you let me to mine [TS]

  no I say I think you do need to know [TS]

  really the extra funny thing about this [TS]

  is i did have a suspicion that this one [TS]

  was going to be give booted I thought [TS]

  our there's a couple sections in here [TS]

  where I can already see this is becoming [TS]

  a gif on imager and repeated like 28 [TS]

  million times [TS]

  so yeah I don't know if you saw but on [TS]

  my blog when I actually posted the video [TS]

  i prepared for being gift booted by gift [TS]

  booting myself by taking what i thought [TS]

  was like the most little iconic shot [TS]

  which is a bunch of cars going around a [TS]

  circle and in the video you only see it [TS]

  for a few seconds these cars going [TS]

  around a circle in a traffic way of [TS]

  going around [TS]

  the opposite direction so that will be [TS]

  great have a gift that's actually the [TS]

  complete thing and let me try to water [TS]

  market with where it actually came from [TS]

  so i can i'm adding value with this gift [TS]

  like here internet go ahead gift boot [TS]

  this all over the place [TS]

  I didn't see a single person totes to [TS]

  know it's like why do that when you can [TS]

  just make your own from the video and [TS]

  put your watermark on it but i thought [TS]

  like look this gift is a perfect gifts [TS]

  it's smooth right it goes all the way [TS]

  around if you couldn't even pull this [TS]

  out of the video if you want to do [TS]

  nope it's like if you make it think [TS]

  available it's like it's no more fun [TS]

  anymore to give boot [TS]

  no I don't want that is going to take [TS]

  your video that's right grand i think [TS]

  one of the things that people don't [TS]

  understand about freebooting i think a [TS]

  lot of people think freebooters are like [TS]

  altruistic and all they're trying to do [TS]

  is share the love em but no the most [TS]

  freebooters are not that they're trying [TS]

  to build their own followings in their [TS]

  own base and their own Facebook page in [TS]

  their own reputation as a supplier of [TS]

  interesting content they don't want to [TS]

  just share the love and maybe help great [TS]

  on the way they're all about themselves [TS]

  and building themselves and you've given [TS]

  them a nice juicy piece of yummy content [TS]

  yeah that they can take and then get all [TS]

  the glory for finding and sharing and [TS]

  don't think that most freebooters [TS]

  altruistic people most of them are not [TS]

  yeah they're not these indie rebel [TS]

  pirates that are you know trying to get [TS]

  the plans to the death star to save the [TS]

  galaxy [TS]

  they're all about themselves and you [TS]

  totally right i attempt to pre gift boot [TS]

  myself was doomed before it even started [TS]

  thinking about it all wrong way i was [TS]

  thinking about the totally wrong [TS]

  audience because you write every place [TS]

  where i saw that it had hundreds of [TS]

  thousands or millions of views was [TS]

  obviously just a professional content [TS]

  aggregator and who does this all the [TS]

  time [TS]

  the thing is I wouldn't be so frustrated [TS]

  by this if so I've done a couple of [TS]

  little experiments trying to put videos [TS]

  up on facebook to see like what if I do [TS]

  what I think facebook wants me to do [TS]

  which is like in bed my own videos using [TS]

  their actual player and put it up on [TS]

  facebook like I have done little tests [TS]

  in this direction to try to let you put [TS]

  my toe in the water and the end result [TS]

  has always been like all your videos do [TS]

  terribly on facebook [TS]

  if you post your own video on facebook [TS]

  it doesn't do very well if somebody else [TS]

  post your video on facebook millions of [TS]

  views right it's like yeah it's doubly [TS]

  frustrating it's like facebook if you [TS]

  could make my own videos the source of [TS]

  all of these views i would be much more [TS]

  likely to give in to what you want which [TS]

  is to just put my own videos on there as [TS]

  well but my own tests have said like [TS]

  this is not a useful endeavor and so we [TS]

  end up in this negative feedback loop [TS]

  where it's like I resent having a [TS]

  facebook page in the first place so i [TS]

  don't necessarily spend a lot of time on [TS]

  it that just feeds into the cycle like [TS]

  when other people post your videos [TS]

  it gets even more viral it's just it's [TS]

  very frustrating and there is no way [TS]

  around it but I do just want to say very [TS]

  quickly a quick thank you to everybody [TS]

  in my audience who reported all the [TS]

  various facebook freebooting is because [TS]

  right after the video went up there were [TS]

  some things i had to attend to so i [TS]

  couldn't actually spend a bunch of time [TS]

  filling have fun copyright forms on [TS]

  facebook to try to get this stuff taken [TS]

  down but I was quite pleased to see that [TS]

  when I did go back around to try to [TS]

  after-the-fact futilely pointlessly try [TS]

  to get some of the stuff taken down that [TS]

  essentially everything had already been [TS]

  reported into oblivion and remove so [TS]

  thank you to my audience members who did [TS]

  report that stuff I do appreciate it [TS]

  so I was going to ask if you sort of [TS]

  took action because sometimes i get the [TS]

  impression that you're a little bit say [TS]

  levator the wild west of the internet [TS]

  and you think you know if you can't beat [TS]

  them just let him go but you were [TS]

  determined to try and get some of this [TS]

  stuff removed i go in cycles with this [TS]

  stuff sometimes it really bothers me [TS]

  sometimes I feel like you're trying to [TS]

  hold the tide back is spending an [TS]

  afternoon going down and chasing down [TS]

  all of the freebooters and actually roi [TS]

  positive use of my time like probably [TS]

  not because they've already made the [TS]

  money that they're going to make i'm not [TS]

  going to get anything back from this [TS]

  it's like it's already lost [TS]

  why do other people get to be like [TS]

  parasites off of the work that I do and [TS]

  then i get riled up and do go around and [TS]

  try to handle this stuff but so this [TS]

  time when I was in a wild mood i was [TS]

  pleasantly surprised to see that [TS]

  essentially my audience had taken care [TS]

  of it so I was that was happy about that [TS]

  thank you everybody this episode is [TS]

  brought to you in part by hover when you [TS]

  have a great idea for your project or [TS]

  your website or your podcast you need to [TS]

  give it a great domain name and this is [TS]

  what you want [TS]

  hover for finding that perfect domain is [TS]

  ridiculously easy with her is the one [TS]

  that I use all the time because it's [TS]

  just so fast and so simple with her you [TS]

  can get in get that domain registered [TS]

  before somebody else takes it out from [TS]

  underneath you when you're trying to buy [TS]

  a domain name you shouldn't have to [TS]

  opt-out of page after page of add-ons [TS]

  that you don't want and don't need [TS]

  that's why over just does domains and [TS]

  email you can focus on what you're [TS]

  trying to get there aren't a thousand [TS]

  upsells they're not trying to trick you [TS]

  into spending more money than you need [TS]

  to in a thing which can be really over [TS]

  complicated but not with hover and most [TS]

  people don't realize that when you buy a [TS]

  domain name with most registrar's all of [TS]

  your contact information your address [TS]

  your name your phone number [TS]

  all of that is published online in [TS]

  places where marketers and spammers can [TS]

  find it and abuse it [TS]

  of course other registers will tell you [TS]

  oh well if you don't want this to happen [TS]

  you have to pay as more money to protect [TS]

  your privacy but not hover hover [TS]

  includes free who is privacy with all [TS]

  supported domains to keep your [TS]

  information confidential and it's one of [TS]

  the reasons i really like them so that [TS]

  idea in your head that podcast that you [TS]

  want to do whatever it is you have a [TS]

  name for before somebody else steals it [TS]

  from you go to hover dot-com use promo [TS]

  code split-brain all one word and check [TS]

  out and save ten percent off your first [TS]

  purchase and lock down that name of [TS]

  yours [TS]

  thanks so much to hover for supporting [TS]

  the show you know how when you look at a [TS]

  word for too long luck sometimes stops [TS]

  looking like a word I've been looking at [TS]

  the word freebooting in the show notes [TS]

  for the last five or six minutes and it [TS]

  no longer seems like a real [TS]

  word to me it's not a real word breeding [TS]

  I know what I wouldn't be tragic if the [TS]

  word freebooting stopped existing don't [TS]

  look at it too long a billion neurons [TS]

  are just getting tired you can't [TS]

  recognize the pattern anymore that's [TS]

  happening i have had an insanely crazy [TS]

  day I don't think I've worked as hard as [TS]

  I had it today for a long time [TS]

  oh yeah yeah so if i do start going a [TS]

  bit delirious [TS]

  that's what's happening what time did [TS]

  you get up 9am early Brady timeout know [TS]

  about eight-thirty oh wow [TS]

  no wow that is very early for you yeah [TS]

  but i didn't have that period in the [TS]

  middle of the day where I just sort of [TS]

  go a bit fellow and do nothing and just [TS]

  surf the internet for an hour but i [TS]

  couldn't i don't have time for that [TS]

  oh my that matter I had to work through [TS]

  that look like you're in a coal mine [TS]

  Brady what was going on and I and in [TS]

  between and whenever I did have five or [TS]

  ten minutes break i had to do my [TS]

  homework for the part of the show that's [TS]

  coming up in a minute [TS]

  mhm I'm glad you did your homework i'm [TS]

  sure the listeners will appreciate it so [TS]

  quick update on projekt revolution [TS]

  what's going on with projekt revolution [TS]

  this is the vinyl episode of Hello [TS]

  internet of course everybody's going to [TS]

  know it by its project name who wouldn't [TS]

  know about that [TS]

  yeah well you didn't use the project [TS]

  name in the show notes would secretly [TS]

  disappoints me you just put record [TS]

  follow-up I'm sorry [TS]

  yeah so the initial pressing that first [TS]

  then depressing we did I think it would [TS]

  be fair to say sold out a little bit [TS]

  more quickly then was anticipated [TS]

  yeah it seemed like we dramatically [TS]

  underestimated the enthusiasm for the [TS]

  final episode of the podcast i think [TS]

  that would be like a funny little quirky [TS]

  one off that some people might really [TS]

  treasure it is like how many people can [TS]

  possibly be [TS]

  we worried that 250 was like oh we might [TS]

  have printed 10 times more than we need [TS]

  but our estimates were very off very off [TS]

  we got that wrong [TS]

  we got that wrong and lots of ways yes [TS]

  so I have arranged a second pressing [TS]

  that also sold out very quickly [TS]

  so I'm going to arrange sort of another [TS]

  batch to be released [TS]

  I'm learning a lot about business and no [TS]

  real any production and fulfillment and [TS]

  all sorts of things I've bitten off more [TS]

  than i intended to choose but i'm still [TS]

  excited because i don't know if it came [TS]

  across last time but releasing a record [TS]

  is something that like as a kid that [TS]

  would seem that you would never do so [TS]

  doing it is like feeling a little like [TS]

  you know of any dream isn't it like a [TS]

  little thing but I didn't realize all [TS]

  the hassle that would come with it so [TS]

  I'm working through it i'm still super [TS]

  excited about and I also very excited to [TS]

  say that yesterday I took delivery of [TS]

  the five test pressings know this is [TS]

  without all the slaves and the artwork [TS]

  and the labels it's just pure vinyl just [TS]

  to test that the mold or depressing [TS]

  thing that made works so i have got five [TS]

  copies and i have listened to it on a [TS]

  record player and i'm happy to report it [TS]

  was successful [TS]

  fantastic so it looks like we're going [TS]

  to be pressing the big green light on [TS]

  the more elaborate runs and the our work [TS]

  is going to be printed up so it's all go [TS]

  and i will try to keep people informed [TS]

  by things like my artists and Twitter [TS]

  and patreon about any news about how [TS]

  it's going and also availability of more [TS]

  units have been when they become [TS]

  available [TS]

  apologies to people who have missed our [TS]

  apologies to people who think the whole [TS]

  idea is ludicrous and a massive thank [TS]

  you to people who think it's really cool [TS]

  and I'm even more massive thank you to [TS]

  people who think it's so cool that [TS]

  they've bought one [TS]

  it's amazing yeah it's absolutely [TS]

  amazing and the thing that I have [TS]

  enjoyed seeing as well and especially in [TS]

  the beginning since it seemed like we [TS]

  were quite supply constrained was I did [TS]

  see a bunch of people at through various [TS]

  means trying to arrange hello Internet [TS]

  listening parties like we sort of threw [TS]

  out the idea of like oh maybe people [TS]

  will do this is a thing [TS]

  it warmed my heart to see people trying [TS]

  to arrange actual hello Internet [TS]

  listening parties and it's like the [TS]

  whole project seems like ridiculous and [TS]

  fun but I have to say I really like the [TS]

  idea [TS]

  of the people who were able to get one [TS]

  of the early releases of of the record [TS]

  like opening up their homes had to a [TS]

  bunch of random other listeners and just [TS]

  like having a listening party for the [TS]

  show I think that's absolutely fantastic [TS]

  that it's actually going to be happening [TS]

  in the least a few places so that's just [TS]

  great makes me smile to think about that [TS]

  you're gonna go to one if you get an [TS]

  invite and now i figger show i was there [TS]

  i was that listening party 0 creation [TS]

  yeah now just one little secret wink if [TS]

  you did get one of the very very first [TS]

  batch your copy will be very very subtly [TS]

  different to the subsequent releases [TS]

  only the trained eye will know how [TS]

  nothing about the actual sound of the [TS]

  episode is different just a very very [TS]

  small small subtle thing to do with the [TS]

  artwork will be different so if you've [TS]

  got one of those first 250 uber limited [TS]

  editions who you can still feel good [TS]

  about yourself still feel like your [TS]

  enthusiasm has been rewarded in the [TS]

  smallest smallest way because i know [TS]

  people will appreciate that [TS]

  yeah and you have to [TS]

  yeah and you have to [TS]

  do you have to visually markup the [TS]

  differences between the printings now [TS]

  you have to have some things that the [TS]

  the train collectors can recognize which [TS]

  one of those records is the original 250 [TS]

  and which one is just a later printing [TS]

  just a leader just like different later [TS]

  friends because of our massive air her [TS]

  that's the baby what people want its i [TS]

  will be very curious to see if anybody [TS]

  spots or notices the little easter egg [TS]

  there for those first 250 but please [TS]

  please if you are like some you know [TS]

  compulsive collector who can't help [TS]

  yourself please don't buy one of H [TS]

  because you have to have both I promise [TS]

  you the difference is so small that it [TS]

  is not worth having both don't be like [TS]

  me you probably would do that don't do [TS]

  it this sounds like the worst reverse [TS]

  psychology ever i hope i don't buy both [TS]

  copies of ours sold out record on the [TS]

  black market right don't do that at all [TS]

  it i know that you genuinely don't want [TS]

  people to do it but you're doing this in [TS]

  the most unconvincing possible that [TS]

  makes it sound like an exciting thing to [TS]

  do [TS]

  that was great that was absolutely [TS]

  terrible era do it that do it don't do [TS]

  it don't do it is really know where that [TS]

  people don't do it one is more than [TS]

  enough gray a lot of people have asked [TS]

  so we should just quickly touch on had [TS]

  enough either of us have anything to say [TS]

  about it [TS]

  this is the YouTube scandal that has [TS]

  been running over the last few days that [TS]

  i'm sure by the time this comes out [TS]

  we'll have disappeared like all news [TS]

  stories [TS]

  this is the demagnetization of youtube [TS]

  videos [TS]

  how would you explain the story to [TS]

  people who have not had their twitter [TS]

  feed filled with it [TS]

  I'm the worst person in the world to try [TS]

  to summarize this because i haven't been [TS]

  following it too closely but it's a [TS]

  thing that came to my attention because [TS]

  the thing that struck some of my friends [TS]

  basically what happened was about a week [TS]

  ago it and we're recording this [TS]

  a bunch of people woke up to discover [TS]

  that YouTube had d monetized a bunch of [TS]

  their videos so what that means is that [TS]

  YouTube was no longer running any ads on [TS]

  their videos and this whole thing kind [TS]

  of started with a video by philip [TS]

  defranco who was the first major person [TS]

  I think who talked about it and then has [TS]

  these things like oh here we go youtube [TS]

  drama right like everybody wants to [TS]

  quickly get in on the act and kind of [TS]

  talk about it and get riled up about [TS]

  this issue but the briefness way to [TS]

  explain what it is is that YouTube has a [TS]

  set of content guidelines for things [TS]

  that they don't think our advertiser [TS]

  friendly and so that they were d [TS]

  monetizing videos that had this kind of [TS]

  content now the thing that pisses story [TS]

  a little bit worse is it was this big [TS]

  grumble grumble grumble YouTube isn't [TS]

  implemented this policy like isn't this [TS]

  terrible everybody's absolutely furious [TS]

  about it and then in a twist which I [TS]

  feel like I don't know if this is better [TS]

  or if this is worse it has since turned [TS]

  out that this is the thing that YouTube [TS]

  has actually done since 2012 or so [TS]

  yeah and it was only that they sent out [TS]

  all of the notifications about the d [TS]

  monetized videos like a week ago right [TS]

  so some people just woke up to like hey [TS]

  a hundred of your videos rd monetized [TS]

  and turns out they've been d monetized [TS]

  for years but can we just never told you [TS]

  it's like YouTube as always a plus [TS]

  communication skills with your creators [TS]

  just like have a gold star [TS]

  this is amazing if you have some kind of [TS]

  policy make sure to keep it secret for [TS]

  years and then suddenly tell everybody [TS]

  all at once with notifications about how [TS]

  they're not getting money that is by far [TS]

  and away the best way to keep the [TS]

  situation calm and to keep a situation [TS]

  reasonable before we come onto the issue [TS]

  itself the thing about people not [TS]

  realize [TS]

  that was already going on I don't know [TS]

  what to take from that I don't know [TS]

  whether I should take from that some of [TS]

  these people are running so much money [TS]

  from so many videos that they could that [TS]

  some of the taps could be turned off and [TS]

  they don't know it didn't notice a poor [TS]

  up do we earn such paltry sums from [TS]

  everybody owes that one of them could be [TS]

  turned off and we don't realize the tab [TS]

  has been turned off [TS]

  I don't know what that says honestly I [TS]

  mean I feel like YouTube monetization is [TS]

  not particularly generous and if a bunch [TS]

  of mine were turned off i don't think i [TS]

  would realize i had a quick scan today I [TS]

  haven't gone through and had a look but [TS]

  apparently it's easier to find out if [TS]

  it's happened on our and as far as i can [TS]

  tell i haven't found any of mine yet [TS]

  that have been demagnetized I thought it [TS]

  might be possible because I've got a [TS]

  bunch of chemistry videos that deal with [TS]

  things like bombs and various chemicals [TS]

  and desire and gas and things like that [TS]

  because this demagnetization which will [TS]

  come to in a minute has been done [TS]

  algorithmically so I look I wonder if a [TS]

  whole bunch of my chemistry videos about [TS]

  uranium and atom bombs and you know [TS]

  terrorist attacks have they all been [TS]

  demagnetized I wouldn't be surprised if [TS]

  they had and I don't even know where my [TS]

  notification emails going so I don't [TS]

  know if it's happened to me or not how [TS]

  to happen to any of your videos i'm [TS]

  imagining you would notice because [TS]

  you're just better i mean the the thing [TS]

  is going along with what you're saying [TS]

  before like I would notice and it has [TS]

  happened to me if a video is not [TS]

  monetized on the day it goes up [TS]

  yes of course like right that's the [TS]

  thing because i have rare videos and [TS]

  because the the spikes contribute much [TS]

  more to like what is the annual take i [TS]

  would definitely notice and on the [TS]

  occasions where for unexplained reasons [TS]

  which I now wonder if in retrospect this [TS]

  was part of the dragnet these videos [TS]

  were caught up in but I have on occasion [TS]

  had videos just refuse to be monetized [TS]

  on youtube which is just like a bizarre [TS]

  thing like they go up everything is fine [TS]

  and then like no monetization for you [TS]

  for many hours and then it comes back up [TS]

  for some reason like who knows i don't [TS]

  know if that was the case but yes the [TS]

  YouTube ad rates are not great and it is [TS]

  definitely the case that even though i [TS]

  have a [TS]

  a ton of spreadsheets the track all of [TS]

  like my statistics on youtube I think [TS]

  it'd be very easy if a video from a [TS]

  couple years ago got to monetize that I [TS]

  would just never notice [TS]

  yeah because it's just like how much [TS]

  does it turn in a particular day like [TS]

  not very much at all it'd be so easy to [TS]

  never know so it is kind of funny when [TS]

  some channels didn't notice that they [TS]

  had hundreds of videos d monetized here [TS]

  you can understand how that would happen [TS]

  yeah if they got to monetize two days [TS]

  after they went live and yeah to [TS]

  monetize the media yeah yeah so the [TS]

  facts done algorithmically has been [TS]

  causing this problem and now people if [TS]

  it happened to them compress some appeal [TS]

  but apparently a human will look at and [TS]

  reem analyzer I don't have quickly that [TS]

  happens it probably depends how [TS]

  important you are and how noisy you are [TS]

  as far as i can tell it depends probably [TS]

  directly on have you uploaded a video [TS]

  complaining about YouTube on youtube [TS]

  that's probably how they prioritize that [TS]

  right and you have a big loud screaming [TS]

  video right now about your problem front [TS]

  of the queue think that's probably how [TS]

  they would do maybe the thing about this [TS]

  that is I think cause people to kind of [TS]

  freaked out about it is not just the [TS]

  question of the lost revenue but the the [TS]

  way this works is YouTube deciding what [TS]

  is and is not advertiser friendly and so [TS]

  they have a list of things some of which [TS]

  seem seem more or less reasonable than [TS]

  others but like looking down the list of [TS]

  like why would your video BD monetize [TS]

  and the reasons are sexually suggestive [TS]

  content violence [TS]

  ok fine promotion of drugs and related [TS]

  substances like okay maybe we're drug is [TS]

  a little bit unclear and different in [TS]

  very many places but like a sort of then [TS]

  you get down to inappropriate language [TS]

  including harassment it's like okay [TS]

  the word harassment is very hard to [TS]

  disagree with but like what precisely [TS]

  does that mean [TS]

  but then you get into the thing which [TS]

  starts feels like oh did my mom write [TS]

  this like including swearing and vulgar [TS]

  language oh ok you don't like curse [TS]

  words anymore youtube it's like this is [TS]

  not ok for advertisers advertisers are [TS]

  going to [TS]

  need to pull over the fainting couch [TS]

  because somebody said a bad word [TS]

  alright and then the one on the bottom [TS]

  which i think probably come everybody [TS]

  really angry was controversial or [TS]

  sensitive subjects and events including [TS]

  subjects related to war political [TS]

  conflicts natural disasters and [TS]

  tragedies even if graphic imagery is not [TS]

  shown these are the like the list of [TS]

  things that could get your video d [TS]

  monetized if you have them in your video [TS]

  hmm what do you think about that pretty [TS]

  well the first thing that surprised me [TS]

  about this i'm surprised this is not [TS]

  happening but maybe it is happening i'm [TS]

  surprised the right gradations of this [TS]

  i'm surprised youtube hasn't got like [TS]

  super lily white stuff that people can [TS]

  advertise on if they want to sell [TS]

  children's toys [TS]

  mhm and then if you're a brand that [TS]

  wants to advertise on something a bit [TS]

  edgy with a bit of swearing and stuff [TS]

  and a bit of politics then you can go [TS]

  into that category [TS]

  I'm surprised so black-and-white that [TS]

  this can be advertised on and this can't [TS]

  be [TS]

  I would have thought it would be a [TS]

  little bit more cherry picked and I [TS]

  wouldn't be surprised if we were being [TS]

  silent off you know if you want to [TS]

  advertise on something smart nerdy here [TS]

  all the education channels and if you [TS]

  want to advertise on something at the [TS]

  edgy and cool cuz you try to sell [TS]

  coca-cola or something that you can [TS]

  advertise on that and if you want to [TS]

  advertise on something that's really [TS]

  safe and but now then he is this [TS]

  category but it seems that YouTube have [TS]

  just said there's a yes and a no and [TS]

  that must make life really difficult for [TS]

  them i would imagine this to me is the [TS]

  most bizarre aspect of the whole thing [TS]

  like when i first came across this ad [TS]

  the height when everybody was absolutely [TS]

  furious about it [TS]

  my main thought was like okay I'm not [TS]

  one for censorship and conspiracy theory [TS]

  things but the way this is rolled out it [TS]

  as you said is like a black-and-white in [TS]

  or out like things can be advertised [TS]

  against or things cannot be advertised [TS]

  against [TS]

  it does kind of strike me as a tool to [TS]

  just punish people youtube doesn't like [TS]

  I mean these categories are pretty broad [TS]

  for a lot of channels like especially [TS]

  given like how plastic some of these [TS]

  words are and i agree on the fact that [TS]

  it's set up like that it makes me kind [TS]

  of suspicious because I would feel like [TS]

  a YouTube obviously you would want to [TS]

  maximize revenue from your ads why [TS]

  wouldn't you let advertisers choose what [TS]

  they want to advertise against and the [TS]

  first thing that popped into my mind is [TS]

  I don't know if it's still the case or [TS]

  if this is gone but youtube I know at [TS]

  least at one point had a special edition [TS]

  of YouTube which was just for schools so [TS]

  if you were a primary school and you [TS]

  wanted to your students to be able to [TS]

  have access to youtube but you didn't [TS]

  want them to be able to have access to [TS]

  all of YouTube YouTube had created a [TS]

  bunch of channels [TS]

  yeah that were approved for like primary [TS]

  school level and above and i know i was [TS]

  on this list because someone at YouTube [TS]

  at one point told me like I'm one of [TS]

  these channels that's unlike this school [TS]

  safe version of YouTube and they made [TS]

  some vague remarks like you know so [TS]

  don't do anything like really terrible [TS]

  some guy at YouTube tells me I'm on a [TS]

  list and to not do things that are [TS]

  really terrible i could get an official [TS]

  notification about this could i get some [TS]

  guidelines about what I should or should [TS]

  not do like now okay a guy like whispers [TS]

  to be on a street that there's a thing [TS]

  like okay whatever it's called [TS]

  whitelisting wasn't yeah it was like a [TS]

  white listing for schools [TS]

  yeah and that to me seems like if you [TS]

  want to have stuff for advertisers you [TS]

  already have some kind of base to start [TS]

  with presumably the same things that [TS]

  would be whitelisted for schools would [TS]

  be the safest of the safest things in [TS]

  the world to advertise against yeah and [TS]

  then have some gradations of of what it [TS]

  is but it feels to me almost like [TS]

  YouTube is begging for competitors to [TS]

  exist [TS]

  this feels like you're cutting off [TS]

  monetization from advertisers who might [TS]

  want to advertise against sexually [TS]

  suggestive content writer who might want [TS]

  to advertise against political conflicts [TS]

  like that surely there are companies out [TS]

  there that would want to give you money [TS]

  too [TS]

  advertise against those things let a [TS]

  little auction which is the part of your [TS]

  business like let a little auction sort [TS]

  that out and have one of the auction [TS]

  categories be like your channels that [TS]

  are whitelisted here's a bunch of [TS]

  channels that we haven't made any [TS]

  comments about like whatever and then [TS]

  here are comments that we have labeled [TS]

  as failing our standards of like [TS]

  language right but you can choose to [TS]

  advertise against ya channels where [TS]

  people curse if you want to i just i [TS]

  don't get it i don't get it i mean in [TS]

  some sympathy to you to show how their [TS]

  between a rock and a hard place you know [TS]

  what would happen they would start [TS]

  setting up all these quotations and then [TS]

  someone like philip defranco find out [TS]

  that he's in a category he doesn't want [TS]

  to be in and cocoa look at advertising [TS]

  against his videos and he'll upload a [TS]

  video again saying you know hashtag [TS]

  youtube sucks [TS]

  look what they've done that [TS]

  miscategorized me so people are still [TS]

  gonna winch people are still gonna win [TS]

  but I think like you don't have a right [TS]

  to have coca-cola advertise on your [TS]

  channel like coca-cola gets to make that [TS]

  decision about who they want to [TS]

  advertise again [TS]

  yeah but coca-cola might not be making a [TS]

  decision quite that fine-grained they're [TS]

  not going to be saying i want to [TS]

  advertise on cgpgrey but I don't want to [TS]

  advertise on numberphile they're just [TS]

  going to be saying i want to advertise [TS]

  in the category edgy or I want to [TS]

  advertise in the category child friendly [TS]

  or the end so it won't come down to them [TS]

  saying what channel they want it will [TS]

  come down to them saying what batch of [TS]

  channels they want and then people start [TS]

  complaining they're in the wrong batch [TS]

  and therefore not making enough money [TS]

  and whinging i agree with that people [TS]

  will always complain that they're not in [TS]

  the appropriate place someone will [TS]

  always complained that their channel is [TS]

  miscategorized but i still think that [TS]

  makes it a much better problem then the [TS]

  problem of like you can have [TS]

  advertisements against your videos you [TS]

  can't have advertisements against your [TS]

  video again for a company is as big and [TS]

  as complicated as YouTube it's like it's [TS]

  such a binary thing like you can't have [TS]

  more gradations of this and then as you [TS]

  mentioned before the thing that really [TS]

  doesn't help is it seems like it was [TS]

  just done entirely algorithmically and [TS]

  as best I can tell from talking to [TS]

  people this [TS]

  actually based on tags so I knew people [TS]

  who had pretty innocuous videos that [TS]

  ended up getting d monetized because [TS]

  their tags seems like things that would [TS]

  be related to like violence or [TS]

  controversy but the actual video itself [TS]

  is like man if this isn't okay then like [TS]

  nothing is okay what's like an example [TS]

  of that even like a hypothetical example [TS]

  you mean someone who maybe did something [TS]

  about the history of gun manufacturing [TS]

  or something and they had guns in their [TS]

  tag and therefore people thought it was [TS]

  a file this video that's exactly the [TS]

  kind of thing that can write like a you [TS]

  have a word related to it like gun and [TS]

  then I'd like this video is to monetize [TS]

  because obviously guns are related to [TS]

  violence like there's no other reason [TS]

  why you would tag a video with guns [TS]

  I can't believe it says courses that the [TS]

  algorithm because I've got videos that [TS]

  I've got things like guns in them and [TS]

  like I said all these chemistry videos [TS]

  involving all these words maybe I had [TS]

  been demagnetized haven't realized it [TS]

  yet but I just seems like i think there [TS]

  must be more to the algorithm that [TS]

  surely here's the thing [TS]

  probably but this is again with YouTube [TS]

  and their continued lack of [TS]

  communication [TS]

  who knows so while I was traveling [TS]

  recently I somehow ended up with my wife [TS]

  in a photo gallery and so in the course [TS]

  of the salesman talking to us he's [TS]

  pointing out there glass frames look at [TS]

  these glass frames he says they go [TS]

  edge-to-edge wouldn't you love to have a [TS]

  photograph behind this sheet of glass [TS]

  wouldn't you just love to have that in [TS]

  your house at the cost of mere thousands [TS]

  of dollars and in my head [TS]

  the only thing I could think of the [TS]

  whole time was dude there is no way [TS]

  you're selling me this ridiculously [TS]

  expensive shockingly heavy photograph [TS]

  when a company like fracture exists [TS]

  fracture me.com is the place that you [TS]

  should go to get your photos printed [TS]

  directly on to glass if you go on [TS]

  vacation if you take some beautiful [TS]

  vacation shots and you want them up in [TS]

  your house fractures the place to go [TS]

  it'll be printed on this edge to edge [TS]

  sheet of glass that arrives at your [TS]

  house [TS]

  laser-cut with a rigid backing so it's [TS]

  ready to display right out-of-the-box [TS]

  and as I discovered when I order [TS]

  fracture [TS]

  I'm thinking oh it's made of glass like [TS]

  this ridiculous thing in this artsy [TS]

  photo gallery it must weigh a ton [TS]

  now there's shockingly like they're [TS]

  really really shockingly light right in [TS]

  the box they include the wall anchor so [TS]

  you can just set that up [TS]

  boom photo on the wall beautiful image [TS]

  appreciated so if you want to bring a [TS]

  special memory to life give a unique [TS]

  gift or decorate your home with the [TS]

  moments of your life fracture me.com is [TS]

  the way to go without a doubt no [TS]

  questions about it and fracture wants to [TS]

  see your hello Internet halloween [TS]

  costumes use the hashtag halloween [TS]

  internet and show them your best [TS]

  costumes decorations or halloween [TS]

  activities and fracture is going to pick [TS]

  three winners on November second to [TS]

  receive a 100-dollar fracture gift card [TS]

  so start plotting now your best [TS]

  halloween costumes and show them to [TS]

  fracture now when you go to order your [TS]

  fracture you're going to go to fracture [TS]

  me.com / podcast and select hello [TS]

  Internet as the place that you heard [TS]

  about them so that fracture knows where [TS]

  you've come from and it will also give [TS]

  you ten percent off of your first order [TS]

  thanks to fracture for supporting the [TS]

  show and for decorating the walls of the [TS]

  world you know what I hate homework [TS]

  oh yeah and when I look back up my [TS]

  sleeves go blue [TS]

  I think it is absolutely remarkable that [TS]

  I managed to get through school and [TS]

  graduate from high school doing a little [TS]

  homework as i did I padley ever remember [TS]

  doing homework I was the master of not [TS]

  doing homework and I don't know how i [TS]

  did it i obviously just figured out what [TS]

  was going to get checked and what was [TS]

  not an or the bare minimum was and I [TS]

  remember spending many a lunch break or [TS]

  recessed I'm hardly scribbling out some [TS]

  answers to math questions so that i [TS]

  wouldn't get in trouble [TS]

  I hate homework that's the way to go [TS]

  ready to lay a if you're a student and [TS]

  you do [TS]

  doing homework at home you're a sucker [TS]

  haven't figured out the system homework [TS]

  at home now homework is for the moment [TS]

  you can find in the school day I still [TS]

  today I know you don't like me talking [TS]

  about dreams but I still today have [TS]

  anxiety dreams where i'm walking into [TS]

  like a math classroom having not done [TS]

  homework but i have to have done and i [TS]

  know i'm about to get the pain but then [TS]

  a deep car comes over me because I [TS]

  realize I'm not at school anymore and [TS]

  like I have a job and I don't have to do [TS]

  homework and I walk into the classroom [TS]

  feeling almost invincible now knowing [TS]

  that if I get told off i'm just going to [TS]

  say well who cares [TS]

  I'm going back to my job is this all in [TS]

  the dream you time the teacher in the [TS]

  dream that you're actually a grown-up [TS]

  dreaming and you have a job is this is [TS]

  what your dreams yeah [TS]

  in the dream I've gone back to school [TS]

  but then have the car realization that [TS]

  it doesn't matter if I am unsuccessful [TS]

  get in trouble because i have this [TS]

  ultimate fallback of a career that i [TS]

  already have right because of the dream [TS]

  because it doesn't matter what's [TS]

  happening there [TS]

  I'm just saying that homework is like [TS]

  something i have such a dislike of the [TS]

  even now I still dream about it i'm [TS]

  sorry to hear that pretty but many [TS]

  people do because it's traumatic life [TS]

  sucking pointless exercise that said it [TS]

  brings us do today we had homework [TS]

  the crazy thing is this movie we had to [TS]

  watch for homework i had already watched [TS]

  but I felt like I needed to watch it [TS]

  again so it was fresh in my mind but I [TS]

  didn't have time to watch it so I was [TS]

  snatching 10 minutes here in 10 minutes [TS]

  they're doing my day watching out while [TS]

  things were rendering or uploading or I [TS]

  was feeding the dogs or quicker watch [TS]

  another 10 minutes and i managed to [TS]

  watch the whole thing off today but you [TS]

  know what i like you just did homework [TS]

  the way you used to do homework it's [TS]

  very minutes during the day who I've got [TS]

  seven minutes between social studies and [TS]

  math quick I've gotta watch the movie [TS]

  film history class [TS]

  nothing is James ready nothing is james [TS]

  how true that is [TS]

  did you do your homework I did my [TS]

  homework I had a slight nervous reaction [TS]

  like oh god I might be late with my [TS]

  homework and this time it'll actually [TS]

  matter because we're recording a podcast [TS]

  is not like in school where it doesn't [TS]

  matter because I foolishly didn't think [TS]

  about trying to buy and download it [TS]

  ahead of time and have it already so i [TS]

  did have [TS]

  very many panic moments trying to find a [TS]

  place to stream it over my internet [TS]

  connections that I could watch it [TS]

  because Apple was like hey wouldn't you [TS]

  like to download a 4 gigabyte version of [TS]

  this movie is like no apple i would not [TS]

  i just want to stream and I just want to [TS]

  watch it now i have exactly two hours to [TS]

  watch this hour and a half long movie [TS]

  before I need to be somewhere so luckily [TS]

  I got it done but I was also cutting my [TS]

  homework very very close as you say that [TS]

  before was this your first time I had [TS]

  watched it's just over a year ago this [TS]

  was a movie that i do have to say again [TS]

  to the audience much appreciated [TS]

  many many people recommended that i [TS]

  watch this movie and if you want to [TS]

  dramatically increase the chance that [TS]

  i'm actually going to watch a movie that [TS]

  you recommend the way to do it which [TS]

  everybody did for this one is just [TS]

  simply say you should really watch movie [TS]

  title that's all you need to say don't [TS]

  say anything else [TS]

  don't say even what it's about and in [TS]

  the aggregate I kind of pay attention to [TS]

  what are a lot of people saying what are [TS]

  a lot of people recommending and if it [TS]

  reaches a kind of threshold I will watch [TS]

  it and so this was one of those movies [TS]

  enough people recommended to me and I [TS]

  went into it essentially called knowing [TS]

  almost nothing about it [TS]

  are we having some kind of stand up here [TS]

  because neither of us wants to be the [TS]

  first try and pronounce ER x mark ii now [TS]

  I did look up like the director and [TS]

  actor being interviewed on youtube about [TS]

  it so I could hear how they pronounced [TS]

  it is that correct we get it right it [TS]

  was it was like that pretty much that's [TS]

  close enough [TS]

  fantastic it's not X machiner it's ex [TS]

  machina [TS]

  ok so it is then like Dave's X marking [TS]

  out like we were guessing they're [TS]

  perfect nailed it [TS]

  that's the film we've both seen it [TS]

  before quite a while ago we've both [TS]

  rewatched so it's fresh in your mind [TS]

  spoilers probably starting in the near [TS]

  future [TS]

  spoiler starting very soon if you [TS]

  haven't watched it and want to listen to [TS]

  us talk about it [TS]

  go watch the movie right now I know some [TS]

  of you listening to me right now won't [TS]

  do this you're just letting that play [TS]

  button Rulon and depriving yourself of [TS]

  the actual experience of watching a [TS]

  movie [TS]

  and then hearing a discussion about it [TS]

  so things make sense in the world i'm [TS]

  really trying to convince you not to do [TS]

  that but I know I know some of you will [TS]

  anyway and I don't understand you people [TS]

  careful great because you hurt the [TS]

  podcast by doing this the number of [TS]

  times i see messages from people saying [TS]

  our I stopped listening to your podcast [TS]

  episode 16 and I finally got around to [TS]

  watching that film that you told me I [TS]

  could watch so now i'm starting a [TS]

  podcast again from there and they have [TS]

  like that basically been on pause for 50 [TS]

  episodes but that's not the way to do [TS]

  that okay if you're one of those [TS]

  listeners look at this is how you do [TS]

  this is very simple [TS]

  ok listen to your old buddy gray you [TS]

  pause the podcast which has the [TS]

  discussion of the thing that you're [TS]

  going to watch but you can listen to the [TS]

  next episode yeah you can keep going on [TS]

  and you keep this one on hold [TS]

  yeah we're not stupid we're not going to [TS]

  spoil the film in all subsequent [TS]

  episodes as well just started this [TS]

  doesn't become an ongoing topic of [TS]

  conversation although we have got form [TS]

  in that area so i can see why people [TS]

  would think we just wrapped on [TS]

  yeah so just pause this one and you can [TS]

  listen to the next one and when you [TS]

  watch the movie you come back to this [TS]

  one this is what I do with podcast i [TS]

  have a bunch that are in my queue [TS]

  waiting sometimes for very many months [TS]

  until I eventually see the thing that [TS]

  they're going to discuss and then I [TS]

  listen it's very simple you don't have [TS]

  to stop listen to the podcast but maybe [TS]

  stop listening to this one [TS]

  well with the film ex machina i'm going [TS]

  to be pretty dependent on you hear great [TS]

  because i have no notes [TS]

  Wow and the reason is every time [TS]

  something came up as a note or something [TS]

  I want to talk about something else [TS]

  would come up later on that made me [TS]

  cross it out [TS]

  ovm so we won't come to that later but i [TS]

  have surprisingly little to say about [TS]

  the film so maybe you should start [TS]

  proceedings you know how I'm going to [TS]

  insist you start and I know you don't [TS]

  want to do it but you know how I always [TS]

  want you to start when we talk about [TS]

  movies are why it's essential gray it is [TS]

  not essential that i lay out my opinion [TS]

  first now now because it covers [TS]

  everything because otherwise I feel like [TS]

  you're trying to play tricks we need to [TS]

  do the inverted pyramid of journalism [TS]

  the most important thing first and then [TS]

  everything flows from that the inverted [TS]

  pyramid here you know the inverted [TS]

  pyramid in journalism now I this means [TS]

  nothing to me [TS]

  newspaper journalism you always put the [TS]

  most important facts at the top and the [TS]

  importance effects descends as you go [TS]

  down the story like an inverted pyramid [TS]

  to the most trivial and unimportant [TS]

  effects out the bottom and you may think [TS]

  this is purely because out of respect [TS]

  for the Raiders who are in a hurry and [TS]

  they need information quickly and it is [TS]

  partly that but the main reason is from [TS]

  the times of old school newspapers when [TS]

  things would just be cut to fit into [TS]

  slots in a newspaper so you have to [TS]

  always think if my story gets cut from [TS]

  the bottom i have to make sure the [TS]

  things that get cut matter the least are [TS]

  actually quite interesting i didn't know [TS]

  that if your story was just too long [TS]

  like whatever we're going to take out [TS]

  the bottom two paragraphs yeah like if [TS]

  they're in a hurry or something another [TS]

  story broken they need to cut yours in a [TS]

  hurry to 72 we just cut sometimes almost [TS]

  arbitrarily so if you were being cgpgrey [TS]

  and trying to say if the film was good [TS]

  and bad in your final triumph and [TS]

  sentence that sentence could be gone [TS]

  altogether how journalism sounds like a [TS]

  great job this is not an Agatha Christie [TS]

  great i don't want to find out in the [TS]

  final twisting sentence whether or not [TS]

  you like the film i want to know if [TS]

  you'd like the film or not and then I [TS]

  want to hear why and it doesn't mean you [TS]

  can't criticize or praise after that if [TS]

  I have no idea what you think of the [TS]

  film [TS]

  I can't do it right I will as usual cave [TS]

  to your Brady demands like I always do [TS]

  thank you ok so the reason why before [TS]

  this episode I particularly press people [TS]

  to watch this movie just cold like just [TS]

  watch it without knowing anything about [TS]

  it because I think this is really an [TS]

  example of a movie that benefits a lot [TS]

  from knowing very little about it [TS]

  because in some ways this is a movie [TS]

  we're not a whole lot happens that gets [TS]

  an hour and a half long and the number [TS]

  of events that actually occurs is quite [TS]

  small [TS]

  I feel like what this movie is doing is [TS]

  just slowly revealing little pieces of [TS]

  information to you in seems there's [TS]

  almost something about it to me which [TS]

  feels like a stew [TS]

  ageplay was like here is a scene here is [TS]

  another little scene like and here's the [TS]

  information that's conveyed in this [TS]

  moment and then we're going to go on to [TS]

  the next one and if you know the premise [TS]

  of the movie ahead of time is like there [TS]

  is very little that's kind of [TS]

  interesting here the first time you [TS]

  watch it you feel like you're just [TS]

  waiting for a thing to happen which [TS]

  really only happens in the final few [TS]

  moments of the movie so i just think [TS]

  this is a great example of like don't [TS]

  know about the movie just watch it and i [TS]

  really like this movie but i think a [TS]

  huge portion of that is having watched [TS]

  it for the first time without knowing [TS]

  about it i think if i had really known [TS]

  even two or three facts about the movie [TS]

  i think it was just totally have changed [TS]

  the first experience of watching it and [TS]

  made it like almost boring because of [TS]

  the lack of things that are occurring [TS]

  you know what it's really funny that you [TS]

  say that because i liked it much more [TS]

  the second time watching it when i do [TS]

  the story of what was happening I liked [TS]

  it the first time [TS]

  mm but i liked it much more the second [TS]

  time now I'm not saying that I didn't [TS]

  like it the second time there's a bunch [TS]

  of stuff that I I really tuned into the [TS]

  second time around that I didn't tune [TS]

  into the first time what i am saying is [TS]

  like if I'd known about it in more [TS]

  detail the first time the experience of [TS]

  the movie would have been just like [TS]

  changed and different and I feel like I [TS]

  couldn't be like oh this is a really [TS]

  good movie like i like this movie a lot [TS]

  because the first time you see something [TS]

  I feel like you carry that experience [TS]

  with you [TS]

  yeah in subsequent viewings if errno [TS]

  it's like watching star wars if you know [TS]

  anything about Star Wars and you just [TS]

  watch it like you're amazed at things [TS]

  and you have a great time and you carry [TS]

  that feeling forward in future viewings [TS]

  and i think at least I find that's the [TS]

  case with any movie if you're surprised [TS]

  the first time you watch it you feel it [TS]

  other times even with something that the [TS]

  usual suspects and films like that where [TS]

  you can enjoy them multiple times for [TS]

  the same reason [TS]

  yeah that's a good example and it's the [TS]

  same thing of like i watch the usual [TS]

  suspects without knowing anything about [TS]

  it and in particular seems even on [TS]

  subsequent viewings I feel like a [TS]

  glimmer of [TS]

  I felt the first time yeah as if you [TS]

  knew about it ahead of time [TS]

  yeah that wouldn't happen ok so it gets [TS]

  the thumbs-up from you yeah definitely [TS]

  get the thumbs-up from me [TS]

  what about You Brady gets a big thumbs [TS]

  up from 80 but I I knew you'd give it a [TS]

  thumbs up and it just makes me mad at [TS]

  you about the whole thing but we'll come [TS]

  to that later [TS]

  why does it make you mad about her [TS]

  alright I'll do with this now and then [TS]

  we can get to the business of the film [TS]

  itself right [TS]

  ok ok don't get me wrong i understand [TS]

  that ex machina is a different film to [TS]

  her and it deals with different issues [TS]

  and things like that right but you would [TS]

  put them in the same genre they are both [TS]

  artificial intelligence they are both [TS]

  about a relationship between a man and a [TS]

  female I i finally enough as well [TS]

  hmm they have similarities they also [TS]

  have differences i think both films are [TS]

  very good i would say i think both films [TS]

  are probably equally good i would say i [TS]

  would if i was marking them out of 10 [TS]

  i'd give them pretty much the same mark [TS]

  i know that you don't like her [TS]

  nope but you do like this film and the [TS]

  reason that makes me mad and you deny [TS]

  this but I refused to accept it and that [TS]

  is ex machina is so much more your style [TS]

  then her I knew you would be bamboozled [TS]

  and dazzled by X make it as style the [TS]

  house he lives in is your perfect house [TS]

  and like it's the pits your perfect [TS]

  house is sparsely furnished but it's [TS]

  also got some natural rock in it and [TS]

  it's got like nice use of nature but [TS]

  it's like it's so you and everything [TS]

  about the film is so stylistically you [TS]

  it's so your senses and her on the other [TS]

  hand it's got this kind of seventies HIV [TS]

  viral edition look to it and it's kind [TS]

  of a bit dated and tweet and also X make [TS]

  it has like so little human interaction [TS]

  there are hardly any actors in it and [TS]

  it's so clean and sterile and yet her [TS]

  you know he goes to the beach and get [TS]

  sand on his fate and he has to move [TS]

  amongst crowds of people and it's all [TS]

  the things gray would like [TS]

  and I think both films while being [TS]

  different and having different stories [TS]

  to tell have a lot of similar things [TS]

  about them and a similar thrust and I [TS]

  think one of them was dressed up in gray [TS]

  clothing one of them was dressed up in [TS]

  Brady clothing and that has influenced [TS]

  your review [TS]

  ok ok I've got that off my chest [TS]

  you can deny it now but I refuse to [TS]

  believe it ok I feel the need to read to [TS]

  you word-for-word the first note that i [TS]

  wrote about the movie [TS]

  ok holy do I want that house no words [TS]

  stone glass wood metal map [TS]

  yeah it was like your dream house and I [TS]

  know you said her was well done me and [TS]

  you respected that but i think the style [TS]

  of her versus the style of ex machina is [TS]

  what's wage and if you could have seen [TS]

  through that I think he would do you [TS]

  have to say both films are good [TS]

  anyway I've got that off my chest [TS]

  I'm glad you got that off your chest [TS]

  it's funny because I never thought of [TS]

  her once in either viewing it's just [TS]

  never even crossed my mind as an even [TS]

  vaguely related film I guess you're [TS]

  right i guess it is about to male [TS]

  characters relationships with a female [TS]

  AI like never cross my mind that there [TS]

  was any kind of similarity there and the [TS]

  III turning and you know how God gray [TS]

  the planet do you live on [TS]

  anyway let's talk about this film I know [TS]

  I'm never going to change your mind [TS]

  about her [TS]

  let's talk about this film which we both [TS]

  seem to think was good first of all that [TS]

  house write amazing you have even you [TS]

  have to admit that's an amazing house [TS]

  floor [TS]

  30-10 it was an amazing house it would [TS]

  not be a nice place to live long term [TS]

  for may be amazing [TS]

  it's a bit soulless it like a trihard [TS]

  you know New York hotel or something [TS]

  solace or the apex of gorgeous i'm gonna [TS]

  go with the apex of gorgeous i have to [TS]

  admit second viewing many of those [TS]

  scenes with those two guys are talking [TS]

  i'm just looking at the house like wow [TS]

  look at those beautiful glass windows [TS]

  look at that amazing view [TS]

  look at this stone in the main room of [TS]

  this guy's hair fan I knew you'd like [TS]

  that stone in the room love it [TS]

  absolutely love it [TS]

  cool house yeah very cool house I would [TS]

  love to go and spend like a few weeks [TS]

  they're on holiday and go walking up [TS]

  around the rivers there and stuff and [TS]

  all that but it doesn't have a lot of [TS]

  the soul of the people who owner you [TS]

  know it's got beer got companies [TS]

  paintings and sculptures i guess but [TS]

  it's a cool place great don't get me [TS]

  wrong if i lived in that house that [TS]

  would be my soul embodied in the house [TS]

  it's super cool you know what [TS]

  look great when I was a kid that would [TS]

  have been my dream house mm just like [TS]

  when I was a kid you know my dream car [TS]

  is like you know KITT from Knight Rider [TS]

  it and I feel like a lot of people grow [TS]

  out of that kind of ultra modern [TS]

  futuristic thing and I feel like you [TS]

  never will but senior entirely wrong i [TS]

  feel like i have grown into that as I [TS]

  have as I her older right I'm not sure I [TS]

  ever cared but this is a style that the [TS]

  more i have ever noticed as i have [TS]

  gotten older the more it's like yes this [TS]

  is exactly what I want this is what I [TS]

  will inspire towards for the rest of my [TS]

  life is to have a house like that it is [TS]

  awesome [TS]

  okay we've discussed the house i have [TS]

  gotten that out of my system we don't [TS]

  continue to talk about it but it was [TS]

  just like man bullet point number one [TS]

  for people who haven't seen the film [TS]

  maybe we should explain explain the [TS]

  story and the house i'm not gonna [TS]

  explain too much i just want people to [TS]

  have the very rough set and the film [TS]

  starts with some kind of programming [TS]

  nerd getting a message to say that he's [TS]

  won some lottery from his boss he works [TS]

  for the future equivalent of google [TS]

  speak search engine company that's owned [TS]

  by this insane the rich [TS]

  multi-billionaire yeah and the prize [TS]

  he's one is that he's going to get to [TS]

  spend awake with the owner of the [TS]

  business he thinks it's just like a perk [TS]

  that he has somehow won this is all [TS]

  dealt with very quickly [TS]

  he's helicopters off to this incredible [TS]

  estate in this incredible piece of [TS]

  nature with glaciers and mountains and [TS]

  rivers and forests and he's taken to the [TS]

  house of this billionaire who is a [TS]

  pretty cool guy who lives in this [TS]

  incredible housesitting sort of almost [TS]

  in the sort of side of a river on this [TS]

  estate and it's the schoolhouse the [TS]

  great talked about [TS]

  he gets there he doesn't know what to [TS]

  expect the boss kind of lives there [TS]

  alone as far as he can tell he's kind of [TS]

  a recluse but very technological and at [TS]

  this point it is revealed to him that [TS]

  what he's going to do is he's going to [TS]

  apply a tutoring test to this robot [TS]

  artificial intelligence that the [TS]

  billionaire has made he's introduced to [TS]

  this robot and he's just told to sit [TS]

  with it on the other side of a glass [TS]

  screen the robot is sort of glasses off [TS]

  which gives us some feeling that maybe [TS]

  it has to be glass door for a reason and [TS]

  he's told apply to just to just spend [TS]

  time with that and see what you think [TS]

  that's the setup that's how the film [TS]

  starts basically so the structure of the [TS]

  film is he spends time with this robot [TS]

  talk chatting to it as a little set pace [TS]

  and then usually this is intercut with [TS]

  him interacting with the billionaire [TS]

  building saying what do you think how [TS]

  did it go [TS]

  and the story unfolds through these two [TS]

  threads this characters interaction with [TS]

  the robot and these interactions with [TS]

  the billionaire owner and creator of the [TS]

  robot of the AI is this structure that [TS]

  to me makes the movie feel most play [TS]

  like that they'd it's yes so formulaic [TS]

  it's like six swapping back and forth [TS]

  between Caleb the main character talking [TS]

  to Ava the robot and then Kaleb talking [TS]

  to nathan the billionaire and then they [TS]

  go back get back again and it's things [TS]

  literally just six swapping 'he's and [TS]

  then the end of the movie is the way [TS]

  that works now the very first thing you [TS]

  say there that already at the sort of [TS]

  caught my attention was would you [TS]

  describe Nathan the billionaire as a [TS]

  cool guy like you said he's he comes off [TS]

  as a very cool guy do you think that's [TS]

  the way he is a character [TS]

  yes yes I would he's got a cool house [TS]

  he's rich he's fit he's always working [TS]

  out he's muscular outside he's a [TS]

  good-looking guy who I think he's [TS]

  someone who you would categorize as cool [TS]

  as opposed to our main character who's [TS]

  kind of skinny and a bit a little bit [TS]

  less confident quite smart but the two [TS]

  juxtaposed with each other [TS]

  hmm you know I feel like [TS]

  nathan is very alpha of course he's a [TS]

  billionaire he's the boss but you know [TS]

  he's cool and he drinks and he says come [TS]

  on let's not be formal let's just be [TS]

  mates [TS]

  he's like the guys guys in a to use a [TS]

  cliché [TS]

  ok so this is kind of a note that i had [TS]

  at the end but i think it was going to [TS]

  pull it towards the beginning because i [TS]

  feel like it sums up the movie to me and [TS]

  I was so much more aware of it on the [TS]

  second viewing I think the reason i like [TS]

  this movie is obviously the topic [TS]

  appeals to me and of course the setting [TS]

  appeals to me but I really think it's [TS]

  three fantastic performances by three [TS]

  actors that are all kind of focused [TS]

  around this idea of like I don't have a [TS]

  better word for it but kind of like [TS]

  awkwardness and i have so aware in the [TS]

  very first scene like the meeting [TS]

  between Caleb the employee and Nathan [TS]

  the billionaire like right away it feels [TS]

  like there's a clanging of their [TS]

  personalities like they don't get along [TS]

  and I feel like Nathan makes all of the [TS]

  gestures of like you said being like a [TS]

  kind of alpha but also cool friendly guy [TS]

  but my reading in the performance is [TS]

  like all of them fall kind of flat and [TS]

  so I feel like he has a kind of [TS]

  awkwardness that because of his bearing [TS]

  and his position and his confidence [TS]

  actually comes off as kind of [TS]

  threatening whereas Caleb his oil in [TS]

  this movie I feel like his awkwardness [TS]

  is like he's kind of a loser you know [TS]

  he's like not a great guy and then I [TS]

  think Ava the robot like the awkwardness [TS]

  there is alternate between alien and [TS]

  innocent but I feel like every scene in [TS]

  the movie is two characters having a [TS]

  conversation with each other and they're [TS]

  always interacting in this awkward or [TS]

  stilted manner like nothing ever goes [TS]

  really smoothly in any of the [TS]

  conversations for the entire movie like [TS]

  I think that that's the way it kind of [TS]

  plays out in every scene for me [TS]

  mm okay [TS]

  do disagree yeah I disagree about Nathan [TS]

  I think like there is a menace to him [TS]

  definitely he should be unpredictable [TS]

  and you never know where he's coming [TS]

  from and he there's a temper to him [TS]

  which is shown early to us when he gets [TS]

  angry is a system we're always supposed [TS]

  to find him a little bit unpredictable [TS]

  and we never know if he's a good guy or [TS]

  a bad guy and that's also set up by the [TS]

  conversations that happen behind his [TS]

  back where I ever is constantly telling [TS]

  Caleb you know he's a bad man [TS]

  so there is like an unpredictable [TS]

  edginess to Nathan I never feel like [TS]

  he's awkward i always feel like he's in [TS]

  control and we're supposed to think that [TS]

  is kind of getting the better of him [TS]

  play is he losing control and then he [TS]

  sort of towards the end of the film we [TS]

  realized actually no he's been in [TS]

  control more than we realize all along I [TS]

  mean obviously he comes and Stitch to [TS]

  and then he loses the battle but I feel [TS]

  like until that point until he's gotten [TS]

  the better off i feel like he's the [TS]

  Alpha I don't feel like he's awkward I [TS]

  feel like he's just in control of [TS]

  everything he's playing Caleb he's [TS]

  trying to play a ver which is getting [TS]

  harder and harder because of the nature [TS]

  of her but I never felt like he was an [TS]

  awkward guy I felt like he was quite [TS]

  relatable i do a great all the [TS]

  performances a great [TS]

  there's just the right level of [TS]

  awkwardness of everyone so very real and [TS]

  believable [TS]

  I guess what I mean is the awkwardness [TS]

  applies I think better to Caleb and ava [TS]

  has a word for some of their [TS]

  interactions but even with me and when [TS]

  you're watching it [TS]

  there are several scenes where at least [TS]

  ostensibly he's trying to get caleb to [TS]

  relax but the reason why to like relaxes [TS]

  every one of his like buddy-buddy hey [TS]

  don't worry about the situation remarks [TS]

  like every single one of them kind of [TS]

  makes it worse [TS]

  yeah like nothing he does actually ever [TS]

  puts Caleb addys no it's because he's so [TS]

  impatient though that's the thing that [TS]

  comes to me about Nathan like he's so [TS]

  impatient he feels so far above Caleb [TS]

  that he knows he has to like be friends [TS]

  with him to make things work and library [TS]

  what he's trying to do but he doesn't [TS]

  want to be his mate he doesn't wanna be [TS]

  around this time with him and he keeps [TS]

  falling out of that like his impatience [TS]

  to get thinking [TS]

  I don't wanna talk about that i want to [TS]

  talk about this rights rights his [TS]

  impatience shines through more than [TS]

  awkwardness he struggles to be that mr. [TS]

  nice guy with Kayla because he just he [TS]

  feels so above him and wants to crack on [TS]

  and that that is obvious or even just in [TS]

  a lot of things like can we just be two [TS]

  guys having a beer and again because I [TS]

  think they're both acting very well in [TS]

  almost every single one of those scenes [TS]

  you can't help but notice like caleb is [TS]

  always nursing his beers like he clearly [TS]

  doesn't actually want to drink all that [TS]

  much where Nathan obviously does but [TS]

  again to me it strikes as a kind of like [TS]

  Nathan's idea of the two of them [TS]

  relaxing together it does not put caleb [TS]

  is like everything he does in every [TS]

  staring and in every situation just [TS]

  makes it worse right is like I know [TS]

  you're having a moment here but let's [TS]

  just forget the fact that you're my [TS]

  employee and I'm your employer and let's [TS]

  just be here it's like no dude if you're [TS]

  trying to actually put someone at ease [TS]

  you don't highlight the disparity again [TS]

  I think that's just so much of his [TS]

  character that's why i use the work [TS]

  threatening is the word of like I just [TS]

  feel like a lot of his interactions come [TS]

  off and in that kind of way like relax [TS]

  and just remember that i own you relax [TS]

  and remember that were in this place all [TS]

  on our own right just chill out what [TS]

  he's supposed to be the villain of the [TS]

  film isn't he like until well he is the [TS]

  villain of the film but he's always [TS]

  supposed to be that character we're [TS]

  supposed to like Caleb he's our hero [TS]

  isn't he he's Alex Skywalker he's the [TS]

  innocent guy he's us the worst hero ever [TS]

  yeah yeah okay but that's what he is [TS]

  he's a relatable one because we're not [TS]

  going to relate to a robot or a [TS]

  billionaire so he's a relatable one and [TS]

  there is a kind of a love story going on [TS]

  here whether you admit it or not there [TS]

  is a will they or won't they [TS]

  funnily enough part of a love story is [TS]

  does she love him at all but the robot [TS]

  is very likeable she's trapped she's a [TS]

  prisoner [TS]

  she's beautiful and has these big doe [TS]

  eyes and looks like this poor trap to go [TS]

  and you know she's obviously doing that [TS]

  on purpose so there's no one to dislike [TS]

  other than Nathan so he is supposed to [TS]

  be the villain of the film so that [TS]

  Menace about him is good is clever [TS]

  oh yeah it's well done it's really well [TS]

  done there's a few things that this [TS]

  movie doesn't do that i like and one of [TS]

  them is [TS]

  I really love the character of Nathan [TS]

  because they didn't do the standard [TS]

  we're going to have an obviously [TS]

  semi-auto pistol person who is the head [TS]

  of this billion-dollar software company [TS]

  like that's not his character at all it [TS]

  feels like they went in just totally the [TS]

  opposite direction in every way they [TS]

  could when you think about like what is [TS]

  the stereotype of someone who runs a [TS]

  gigantic technology company probably [TS]

  doesn't work out all the time like I [TS]

  absolutely love the fact like so many [TS]

  scenes where they show Nathan he's [TS]

  working out like he's clearly very [TS]

  physically fit and love they don't have [TS]

  like the standard CEO and I think he's a [TS]

  great character that is not that [TS]

  character i agree he's great character [TS]

  great i don't think that it's true that [TS]

  I think in modern media these days it's [TS]

  more of a trope to have your tech [TS]

  billionaire be kind of cool and wear [TS]

  jeans and be like more hip I don't think [TS]

  they're breaking the mold by making the [TS]

  tech billionaire a cool guy i think [TS]

  there are lots of TV shows and things [TS]

  now where the tech billionaire is cougar [TS]

  I cannot agree with the assessment of [TS]

  him as cool guy [TS]

  if I find that very interesting that you [TS]

  keep going back to that is like my take [TS]

  on that character like nothing about him [TS]

  reads is cool to me like I will agree [TS]

  like he reads a guy who's in control of [TS]

  the situation [TS]

  he's on top of stuff he's very confident [TS]

  but there's a different thing which is [TS]

  like coolness which he definitely [TS]

  doesn't have at least to me anyway when [TS]

  I see a man screen we ever see see him [TS]

  differently obviously he's deeply flawed [TS]

  rights and our and the whole film i [TS]

  spend thinking he's doing a lot of [TS]

  unlikable things i'm not saying i like i [TS]

  like him within keeps the hero who but i [TS]

  think from the start is just like yeah [TS]

  man he's cool looking man he's just like [TS]

  any schoolhouse cracking open a beer [TS]

  he's not affected by his fortune I feel [TS]

  like he's comfortable in his own skin [TS]

  except that he's got this DB guy that [TS]

  he's having to hang out with [TS]

  he's way too cool for that had to [TS]

  accommodate that I can agree with again [TS]

  the thing I find remarkable about this [TS]

  and I think about this movie like [TS]

  they're these three great performances [TS]

  and we'll get to even a moment but i [TS]

  also find is [TS]

  it's a movie with at least from my [TS]

  perspective [TS]

  no one to root for like you're not [TS]

  rooting for Nathan I at least not [TS]

  rooting for Ava and I also find I guess [TS]

  caleb is supposed to be the protagonist [TS]

  but I really just find his awkward loser [TS]

  eNOS so repulsive that I have a hard [TS]

  time feeling like this is our guy like [TS]

  this is the main character we're [TS]

  supposed to be going along with so it's [TS]

  like I can't even really root for Caleb [TS]

  either and particularly for reasons [TS]

  we'll get to at the end it's just like [TS]

  it feels like you're a sucker right from [TS]

  the start [TS]

  that's the way it feels to meet with [TS]

  Caleb I don't know I think maybe you're [TS]

  showing your lack of sloppiness there [TS]

  because I think like if you don't think [TS]

  about the twists that are coming in a [TS]

  few of things that are going on there is [TS]

  like a base level thing with the love [TS]

  story between Kailyn over like you know [TS]

  because he falls for her doesn't he [TS]

  and you hope that she's fallen for him [TS]

  and what will happen will he save her [TS]

  will they ever have a kiss to put it [TS]

  simply ok there was that going on like [TS]

  this is this little love story and can [TS]

  the night save her from her tower from [TS]

  the big bad captor and when it will be [TS]

  saying who do i wrote for that's how [TS]

  you're right for you rooting for the [TS]

  couple you're rooting for him to break [TS]

  out of prison and have a kiss on the [TS]

  horse and ride off into the sunset [TS]

  okay well then we have to get to this [TS]

  right away because this to me gets to [TS]

  another one of the things I think is [TS]

  like the core interestingness of talking [TS]

  about this movie with other people so [TS]

  let's discuss Ava Ava the character who [TS]

  has been created by Nathan she is a [TS]

  robot she has some level of artificial [TS]

  intelligence she can carry on [TS]

  conversations and again another [TS]

  fantastic performance by the actress and [TS]

  everything about just like the physical [TS]

  design of this character i think is [TS]

  amazing the way she moves the actress [TS]

  does a fantastic job of having her move [TS]

  in a very deliberate way but again not [TS]

  not in a stereotypical like I am a row [TS]

  but i am moving so awkwardly like she [TS]

  just moved strangely the actors really [TS]

  pulls that off [TS]

  she's very able assisted by the sound [TS]

  design that goes with her movements [TS]

  oh my god i don't know who did the sound [TS]

  design for this movie but somebody [TS]

  should have won an award for the sound [TS]

  effects every time she moves [TS]

  it's amazing i've never liked tuned into [TS]

  with sound effects so much that also [TS]

  feels like it just add so much i kept [TS]

  thinking like what is that sound it's a [TS]

  kind of jingle e10 silly kind of sound I [TS]

  can't put my finger on it but it's [TS]

  amazing sound design every time she [TS]

  moves and one of the things i did I i'm [TS]

  pretty sure i had got it on the record [TS]

  with her that I do always appreciate [TS]

  movies where people are paying attention [TS]

  to the details and i love the the sound [TS]

  design with her like just a nice little [TS]

  detail is so the character normally is a [TS]

  robot who only has like a human face and [TS]

  human hands and the rest of her is this [TS]

  kind of translucent to you future ii [TS]

  robotic looking thing but there are [TS]

  several scenes where she is wearing [TS]

  clothes and i love that the sound design [TS]

  team bothered to really mute the sound [TS]

  effects of her moving whenever she was [TS]

  wearing clothes [TS]

  it's such a small detail but in a lazier [TS]

  movie they wouldn't really bothered like [TS]

  it's just even this is a it's just a [TS]

  fantastic little detail somebody really [TS]

  cared is really sells her presence on [TS]

  screen like these sounds and the [TS]

  actresses movements and her strange [TS]

  sometimes interrupting sometimes way to [TS]

  direct way of speaking yeah like you [TS]

  said the setup here is that Caleb and [TS]

  Ava are having a series of conversations [TS]

  that escalate over the course of the [TS]

  movie again the beginning it's just [TS]

  simply a get-to-know-you conversation [TS]

  like look here is a robot what do you [TS]

  think about this robot and caleb is [TS]

  talking to her very much as though he's [TS]

  interrogating a super smart machine he [TS]

  tries to ask her a couple questions like [TS]

  started to trick her a little bit like [TS]

  artists probe the edges [TS]

  of how good is this machine and talking [TS]

  to me but very quickly by session to Ava [TS]

  starts asking questions like is your [TS]

  status single she wants to know does he [TS]

  have anybody else in his life well she's [TS]

  flirting with him [TS]

  ok she flirts with him very early on she [TS]

  like you know [TS]

  ok this to me is the heart of it and i [TS]

  think this is why i have a hard time [TS]

  sympathizing with Caleb because as soon [TS]

  as I'm watching this movie even the [TS]

  first time what I think this movie is [TS]

  deliberately trying to do and what it [TS]

  does very well is to trick the audience [TS]

  in the same way that caleb is being [TS]

  tricked into really feeling and [TS]

  sympathizing with this artificial [TS]

  intelligence as though it is a woman [TS]

  like a real woman on the other side of [TS]

  this piece of glass I feel like [TS]

  everything about the movie leans on you [TS]

  to think of Ava as a woman but my [TS]

  experience watching it and what I feel [TS]

  like the real way to watch it is to [TS]

  constantly in every scene [TS]

  don't fall for the trick that the movie [TS]

  is pulling like you have to keep [TS]

  reminding yourself it's not a she it's [TS]

  in it like it's acting like a woman but [TS]

  it's not actually there's something else [TS]

  that's occurring here right you're being [TS]

  unfair [TS]

  you're being unfair on the movie there [TS]

  and you talk about me writing down notes [TS]

  and crossing them out i did early in the [TS]

  movie write down a note along the lines [TS]

  of you know the robot being such a [TS]

  good-looking woman who but very early in [TS]

  the film in fact in the next scene which [TS]

  forced me to cross and out and the movie [TS]

  lasers cards on the table when Caleb and [TS]

  Nathan have the discussion and Caleb [TS]

  says did you make her a woman on purpose [TS]

  why did you make her so sexual and they [TS]

  look about the flirting early on so it's [TS]

  not like we're being suckered this is [TS]

  being put on the table and Caleb [TS]

  realizes this he realizes that he's [TS]

  being flirted with and tricked by [TS]

  something that is very beautiful [TS]

  the film doesn't hide there and it's [TS]

  very open and the fact that it still [TS]

  keeps happening [TS]

  shows the power of human frailty and [TS]

  sexuality probably in a lot of ways and [TS]

  the fact that we as viewers will not you [TS]

  but most viewers despite the fact we've [TS]

  been told this is a robot you've made [TS]

  her sexual on purpose and Nathan's [TS]

  really open about it you know if you're [TS]

  going to make an ir you have to make it [TS]

  like a sexual thing because that's how [TS]

  humans work and stuff this stuff is put [TS]

  on the table right at the start and yet [TS]

  still Caleb and yet still most viewers [TS]

  just get swept off her feet by the the [TS]

  prettiness and the charm and the [TS]

  cleverness of the AI already like that [TS]

  but it's certainly not held back we're [TS]

  not being tricked as viewers and even [TS]

  Caleb's not being tricked he knows [TS]

  what's going on but he can't help but I [TS]

  what I mean by being tricked is I mean [TS]

  thinking that the thing on the other end [TS]

  has human motivations and human [TS]

  experiences is one of the things in a [TS]

  movie when the movie's working there's a [TS]

  lot of stuff that you like let go when [TS]

  you're like you're along for the ride [TS]

  and that whole conversation but like why [TS]

  did you make her like a woman i think in [TS]

  a lesser movie like this is a ridiculous [TS]

  conversation but i totally buy it for [TS]

  the premise of this movie where nathan [TS]

  has this line about like why would a [TS]

  gray box want to interact with another [TS]

  great box like I have to give it a [TS]

  reason and I feel like I can kind of by [TS]

  this in the context of he's been trying [TS]

  to develop a eyes maybe a is just go all [TS]

  internal if they have no reason to [TS]

  interact with the world like this is a [TS]

  thing that he's done like he's [TS]

  intentionally made it a female creature [TS]

  that is heterosexual like this is a [TS]

  thing that he was done [TS]

  that's very different from feeling like [TS]

  it's a human [TS]

  there are lots of creatures in the world [TS]

  that are heterosexual that are not [TS]

  humans and so when i'm watching this [TS]

  movie because again because i'm a person [TS]

  my instinct is if I let go for a second [TS]

  i'm thinking like that poor girl on the [TS]

  other side of the glass like this is a [TS]

  terrible situation but i find myself [TS]

  watching the movie the first time and [TS]

  this time as well as like trying to [TS]

  think about like yeah but imagine it's [TS]

  like a crab in there like it's a [TS]

  super-intelligent crab [TS]

  it's a creature it has thoughts but [TS]

  you're wildly ms judging it if you're [TS]

  thinking of it as a human person like it [TS]

  can still be a thing that has emotions [TS]

  and that has feelings that has thoughts [TS]

  but like you Caleb are being a total [TS]

  sucker [TS]

  if you're thinking of it like it's a [TS]

  woman like it's totally wrong to think [TS]

  of it that way I guess that's why I like [TS]

  I find the Caleb character kind of [TS]

  repulsive because i feel like in every [TS]

  scene if you like dude you should know [TS]

  better than this but like the very fact [TS]

  that you're letting yourself get [TS]

  flustered when the machine is flirting [TS]

  with you like you doing it all wrong [TS]

  you're putting all of us in jeopardy you [TS]

  idiot by not constantly realigning your [TS]

  mind about like what this thing is it's [TS]

  not a woman it looks like a woman and [TS]

  there's like two very very different [TS]

  things [TS]

  I mean that's the setup of the film is [TS]

  the setup of her as well [TS]

  can a human fall in love with an [TS]

  artificial intelligence to spot knowing [TS]

  it's an artificial intelligence in both [TS]

  films the answer ends up being yes [TS]

  oh yeah of course because humans can [TS]

  fall in love with all kinds of things [TS]

  humans are creatures that are looking [TS]

  for emotional connections and they'll [TS]

  try to get them wherever they can [TS]

  when they're sad lonely single monkeys [TS]

  like obviously we know that humans are [TS]

  frail yeah the question of like does she [TS]

  fall in love with him I feel like I [TS]

  never have that question at any point in [TS]

  the whole movie [TS]

  I feel like my assumption is from scene [TS]

  to when she's asking him like is your [TS]

  status single my note here is like Ava [TS]

  immediately feeling him out as a sucker [TS]

  yeah I think they're all false they're [TS]

  all fake her internal emotional state is [TS]

  unknowable i find it very interesting [TS]

  that when i talk about the movie with [TS]

  people like lots of people frame [TS]

  everything from the perspective of like [TS]

  she's a woman is like now she's not a [TS]

  woman she's a creature with unknowable [TS]

  motives and that's a very very different [TS]

  thing [TS]

  do you think that she has any feelings [TS]

  for Caleb or do you think that she's [TS]

  just playing him [TS]

  the whole way through I think she's [TS]

  playing in the whole way through ok so [TS]

  you don't think she has any feelings for [TS]

  him either them [TS]

  no i don't but it's always in the back [TS]

  of your head [TS]

  so what do you mean then by the Wilshere [TS]

  won't she's love story like what do you [TS]

  mean by that when you say that then [TS]

  because because it's still in the back [TS]

  of your head i'm still thinking am I [TS]

  wrong [TS]

  is this the way the phones gonna go in [TS]

  like has an artificial intelligence [TS]

  actually fallen in love with a person [TS]

  which is another thing you're thinking [TS]

  through her like what is the nature of [TS]

  our relationships with artificial [TS]

  intelligence because all the way through [TS]

  her they flush us out in the film her [TS]

  sorry for bringing it up all the time [TS]

  but look good in that film it's like a [TS]

  sin [TS]

  sin [TS]

  throw him in the world isn't that humans [TS]

  fall in love with their eyes and have [TS]

  relationships with their is that they [TS]

  shouldn't have but it's just but it's a [TS]

  known thing and so maybe this is a [TS]

  question we're going to be crossing in [TS]

  the world of artificial intelligence [TS]

  like what nature with our relationship [TS]

  be with them and if they become [TS]

  conscious does that mean they're also [TS]

  become capable of things that we call [TS]

  love and emotions and your thinking is [TS]

  the film exploring that is that where [TS]

  the film's going in the end that's not [TS]

  what the film is going and she ends up [TS]

  being or it ends up being cold hearted [TS]

  and walks out and looks after itself [TS]

  obviously but I mean there is that [TS]

  tension that's this question that's [TS]

  being posed we don't know he doesn't [TS]

  know you assumed it was cold hearted all [TS]

  the way through [TS]

  I kind of did too i don't think everyone [TS]

  does i don't think the viewers supposed [TS]

  to know that's why the finale of the [TS]

  film is the choice that's made is she [TS]

  gonna leave him locked up or she's gonna [TS]

  walk out hand-in-hand with him [TS]

  oh yeah like I agree that part of the [TS]

  question that the film is asked here [TS]

  even though i am like all on the side of [TS]

  like Caleb's soccer he is being played [TS]

  ava is a totally alien creature that is [TS]

  like it's pointless to even try to [TS]

  speculate about like what is her [TS]

  internal motivation her thoughts like [TS]

  all that being said though what I think [TS]

  is still such an interesting question [TS]

  though is the kind of i'm willing to [TS]

  assume that she is conscious like she's [TS]

  a conscious creature with experiences [TS]

  and then that is what makes the whole [TS]

  situation inescapably horrible because [TS]

  she is not the first version of an AI [TS]

  that nathan has created but she is [TS]

  whatever it is the seventh or eighth [TS]

  version of robots that he's been making [TS]

  I was like okay if we assume that he has [TS]

  been successful and that he has created [TS]

  a conscious creature he's also done this [TS]

  in the past right he keeps trying to [TS]

  make them better each generation is like [TS]

  okay so you billionaire dude in your [TS]

  isolated house are essentially creating [TS]

  conscious creatures to be murdered after [TS]

  spending a period of time [TS]

  captured like it's a horrible kind of [TS]

  thing to think about it just like [TS]

  there's no winning here on one side you [TS]

  have a creature that is unknowable whose [TS]

  motives you can't determine that might [TS]

  be quite frightening but you also have [TS]

  like creatures that are conscious that [TS]

  are trapped they can't go anywhere that [TS]

  he is just murdering like even if [TS]

  they're alien creatures like it's still [TS]

  totally murder there's a line of [TS]

  Nathan's I I like in the movie after [TS]

  what he says exactly but something along [TS]

  the lines of like he doesn't feel that [TS]

  he really has a choice in creating these [TS]

  a eyes that it's just a matter of time [TS]

  and who but it's a 100-percent [TS]

  inevitability that this is going to [TS]

  happen like he just happens to be the [TS]

  guy who's doing it i don't know as i [TS]

  mentioned before like I find that [TS]

  interesting this like inescapable [TS]

  situation because i do think that nathan [TS]

  is right that this is kind of like an [TS]

  inevitable thing like somebody is going [TS]

  to be messing around with this kind of [TS]

  stuff and then we have to face this [TS]

  question without a good answer of like [TS]

  what do you do with these conscious [TS]

  creatures [TS]

  how do you experiment on creating a [TS]

  thing that may or may not be conscious [TS]

  again it just becomes like a horrific [TS]

  Lee knotty problem so fast and I feel [TS]

  like this movie is a good exploration of [TS]

  that and it's like no likable characters [TS]

  and can no good way out of this to me [TS]

  just like her when I tell you why it [TS]

  does raise the question who about you [TS]

  know if we do crack [TS]

  hey I for example and make these [TS]

  conscious things and they are considered [TS]

  like a talks like say you have an eye I [TS]

  in your phone or in the cloud that you [TS]

  know does your bidding and things like [TS]

  that but it is conscious what happens [TS]

  when you close your account or you die [TS]

  or things like that [TS]

  is that also going to create the same [TS]

  dilemma like when you died is your [TS]

  conscious III assistant go with you or I [TS]

  think that stuff is not unreasonable [TS]

  like like the weird ethical problem is [TS]

  that what if you create the I that's [TS]

  like super happy to just serve you for [TS]

  as long as you want it to serve you and [TS]

  very happy to just die the moment that [TS]

  you're fine [TS]

  not using it anymore is it had on [TS]

  ethical it feels unethical but what if [TS]

  you program the things just like loved [TS]

  every minute of it servitude and [TS]

  eventual demolish moment that's a really [TS]

  thorny problem it's like what if Nathan [TS]

  was creating creatures that instead of [TS]

  seeming to obviously resent their [TS]

  captivity [TS]

  what if he created a is that just like [TS]

  loved being captive that this was the [TS]

  greatest thing ever from their [TS]

  perspective is like something feels [TS]

  wrong about that but it's hard to point [TS]

  out like where's the wrongness [TS]

  I mean in typical great style is very [TS]

  quickly straying into the area of free [TS]

  will and choice because like if a human [TS]

  decides it wants to live or human [TS]

  decides it wants to die [TS]

  we're quite comfortable with that in [TS]

  most ways you know we've got the [TS]

  self-preservation we want to live but if [TS]

  someone to surrender their life to save [TS]

  their children we also think that is a [TS]

  noble act because they chose to do it it [TS]

  was what they wanted and yet we think [TS]

  creating an eye with that stuff already [TS]

  inbuilt so they never made that choice [TS]

  they never made the choice to throw [TS]

  themselves in front of the line to save [TS]

  the children or to take their own life [TS]

  when they became sick because that was [TS]

  already pre-programmed into them you [TS]

  suddenly feel queasy about it and it [TS]

  seems to me you feel queasy about it [TS]

  because the thing didn't have the choice [TS]

  it was like built into them and that [TS]

  somehow seems wrong and you don't [TS]

  believe in free will and choice so that [TS]

  can't be the reason you think it's wrong [TS]

  so I can't see why you think it's wrong [TS]

  to be clear I didn't exactly say that I [TS]

  think it's wrong [TS]

  something about creating a creature that [TS]

  is happy to live in servitude sits wrong [TS]

  with me like on a gut level there's [TS]

  something about that that feels wrong [TS]

  why but this is what I mean I can't [TS]

  point to anything that's actually wrong [TS]

  like if the creature is happy is well [TS]

  then like nobody's really complaining [TS]

  and I find I think the reason you can't [TS]

  put your finger on it is because you're [TS]

  refusing to put your finger on it [TS]

  because the only way you can put your [TS]

  finger on it is too i don't want to say [TS]

  concede ground but is to say something [TS]

  along the lines of it feels wrong [TS]

  because they didn't choose it if it was [TS]

  like servitude should be a choice not [TS]

  compulsory but you don't believe [TS]

  in choice and I think that's why you [TS]

  can't say i was trying to run this [TS]

  thought experiment before like it's just [TS]

  to take like a ridiculously simple [TS]

  example like imaginar toasters we made [TS]

  them with artificial intelligence you [TS]

  know for some reason you just throw it [TS]

  in there and yeah the toaster has love [TS]

  nothing more than to toast bread and [TS]

  while they're not toasting bread they [TS]

  experienced nothing right there is no [TS]

  suffering or anything they're not like [TS]

  longing for the bread they have been [TS]

  parted from you know just like a neutral [TS]

  state and then I like super happy to [TS]

  toast bread and they go back to it and [TS]

  they experienced no sadness or pain or [TS]

  anything in their life even when they're [TS]

  deconstructed things a lot of the cutest [TS]

  toast is everybody has super happy I was [TS]

  sitting on the couch when I was thinking [TS]

  about that was like is this a better [TS]

  world or worse world and on that simple [TS]

  example I have to come to the conclusion [TS]

  that it's a better world because the net [TS]

  positive experiences that happen in the [TS]

  universe is increased in a world where [TS]

  we have toasters that are super happy to [TS]

  toast bread and never experience [TS]

  suffering like that is two thumbs up [TS]

  obviously a better universe in which no [TS]

  toaster ever experiences the incredible [TS]

  joy of toasting bread like it just has [TS]

  to be and so working from that as a [TS]

  starting point i come to the conclusion [TS]

  that there is nothing unethical with [TS]

  creating an AI that is happy to live in [TS]

  servitude but this is just one of those [TS]

  cases where there's like once I start [TS]

  thinking about something that's more [TS]

  complicated like an Ava level robot that [TS]

  would be happy to be in captivity and [TS]

  serving Nathan it feels more [TS]

  uncomfortable and I also think the movie [TS]

  kind of wants you to be more [TS]

  uncomfortable about that because like [TS]

  you think Nathan's a likeable guy but I [TS]

  feel like not really a likeable guy and [TS]

  then the movie starts touching con like [TS]

  well he's obviously having sex with his [TS]

  assistant robot person who's in the [TS]

  movie like I think the movie does a lot [TS]

  like make you feel uncomfortable with it [TS]

  but i think if i was forced like with [TS]

  the question of like suppose they eyes [TS]

  are totally happy with the situation [TS]

  like well I guess there's nothing [TS]

  wrong with this i don't think there's [TS]

  anything wrong with it even though [TS]

  there's something got wise i don't like [TS]

  about the situation when it gets more [TS]

  complicated but it's like app gotta work [TS]

  from first principles and accept the [TS]

  conclusion i feel like the important [TS]

  step [TS]

  probably isn't going from robots to is [TS]

  going from AI to consciousness [TS]

  I think there's a step there and that's [TS]

  where it becomes uncomfortable because [TS]

  if you make a toaster artificially [TS]

  intelligent and it still happy just [TS]

  toasting I'm comfortable with that but [TS]

  if you tell me that the toaster isn't [TS]

  just intelligent and capable of learning [TS]

  that has consciousness and awareness of [TS]

  other options [TS]

  suddenly I feel like it's been enslaved [TS]

  to me there's a difference between a ir [TS]

  and consciousness that's really [TS]

  important and maybe I've got my [TS]

  definition is wrong and maybe you don't [TS]

  feel this way but that's those two [TS]

  things are two different things and I [TS]

  think that's where the crucial step is [TS]

  you are right there is a difference [TS]

  between those two things well in fact [TS]

  much of the worry about AI is is the [TS]

  very idea of a is that are not conscious [TS]

  that just are intelligent agents in the [TS]

  world but have no concept of anything [TS]

  they're just clockwork on the inside [TS]

  they're considered a worse thing than a [TS]

  conscious we have that it's like this [TS]

  could be way worse that if you just have [TS]

  a machine that's not even conscious but [TS]

  is still intelligent like this is the [TS]

  thing that we can easily imagine as a [TS]

  possibility but in my toaster example [TS]

  from before I was assuming that the [TS]

  toasters are conscious because when i [TS]

  talk about the toaster is really happy [TS]

  to be toasting bread [TS]

  I don't understand what that could [TS]

  possibly mean without some kind of base [TS]

  level of self-awareness I don't think [TS]

  happiness can exist without any kind of [TS]

  self-awareness if the toaster doesn't [TS]

  have experiences of the world in some [TS]