0:00:00I did go out onto the scaffolding
0:00:01outside the house I fucked up the
0:00:04courage i made it i went out i looked at
0:00:07me I looked at my roof I took the nail
0:00:09and gear flag and i flattered in the
0:00:12wind of the house so inspired by grays
0:00:15Batman efforts are basically i just
0:00:17didn't want him to be the only Batman
0:00:19right so I did it I did it
0:00:22it's another very cool picture of you
0:00:23Brady I feel like that one too is
0:00:25calling out for some photoshopping just
0:00:27like you are looking cool explosion
0:00:29photograph you know you've got the the
0:00:31wind blowing the mighty nail and gear
0:00:34flagler kids they know that that's
0:00:35calling out for a little modification I
0:00:37think gray I'm I'm open to that are I'm
0:00:40even willing to make some suggestions
0:00:42there's a this event is about you don't
0:00:45you don't tell the internet what to do
0:00:46really
0:00:47crap can I suggest perhaps Tenzing a
0:00:51Topman Everest could be used as a is
0:00:53inspiration hillary and tenzing together
0:00:55on this on the summit's guy in the
0:00:57southeast face there but you're right it
0:01:00i mean i think the pictures magnificent
0:01:02enough on a sign that it doesn't need
0:01:03photoshopping but if yes it looks
0:01:06absolutely magnificent you on the
0:01:09scaffolding leading up to your house for
0:01:11that for that for those who have asked i
0:01:14went for the she me at the window option
0:01:16rather than they going up the ladders
0:01:17option
0:01:18I just didn't trust those letters yeah
0:01:20this is a popular request lot of people
0:01:22dying to know which way through which
0:01:23people about you know what
0:01:25yes a lot of people of us did you do did
0:01:29you do the ladder or did you go out the
0:01:31window and so for those who ever that
0:01:34you're asking i went for the wind eh i'm
0:01:39very proud of you
0:01:40we've got and we've got to tie up the
0:01:41loose ends oh yeah is that it happens
0:01:44that we do on the show we tie up the
0:01:45loose ends yeah i like to think it's
0:01:47like a whole complete thing i would like
0:01:49to think when the last ever episode of
0:01:52Hello internet is recorded
0:01:53uh-huh it was somehow close some loop
0:01:56that started like with the first episode
0:01:58of people will go to you what I think
0:02:00they planned the whole thing
0:02:02yeah i think the whole thing was
0:02:04scripted it was like it was like a
0:02:05genius
0:02:07Agatha Christie sort of thing where
0:02:09every single sentence in every single
0:02:11episode was
0:02:12now working towards some moment at the
0:02:14end i went to my regular gym this
0:02:18morning and walking up to the front desk
0:02:21i'm getting ready to go in and there's a
0:02:23big pile of towels that you're supposed
0:02:26to take from as you go into the gym but
0:02:30the new thing this morning was a
0:02:32gigantic sign and by gigantic I mean as
0:02:36tall as me
0:02:37they erected a huge sign which said
0:02:40please think about the environment and
0:02:44only take one towel into the gym and
0:02:49this kind of thing infuriates me
0:02:53it absolutely infuriates me and at my
0:02:56gym it infuriates me many multiple times
0:02:59over so i took for towels into the gym
0:03:02today I did not take one towel into the
0:03:05gym and 2 y.o skins and I club his seal
0:03:09on the way I feel like I don't even need
0:03:12to explain why this is infuriating let
0:03:14me just run through why in the gym I
0:03:16find this particularly frustrating
0:03:17there's another sign later in the gym
0:03:20which is in the actual equipment like
0:03:23when you're when you're doing your
0:03:23workout they have these little signs up
0:03:25all over the place which say please be
0:03:27considerate to the other patrons and
0:03:30make sure to wipe down the equipment
0:03:32after you've used it totally reasonable
0:03:35right this is a totally reasonable
0:03:37civilization like request
0:03:39you've been a sweaty gross person on a
0:03:42piece of equipment you're going to wipe
0:03:44down your gross sweat off of it right
0:03:47reasonable yes of course yeah okay
0:03:49except that the question is wipe it down
0:03:51with what
0:03:53because in the gym there are no little
0:03:55hand wipes for you to use
0:03:57there's no equipment there at all so
0:04:00unless you're going to wipe it down with
0:04:01your hand
0:04:03the only thing the only conceivable
0:04:05thing that you could use to wipe down
0:04:07the equipment is the one towel that they
0:04:11want you to bring into the gym but
0:04:13nobody's going to use the same towel to
0:04:16clean the gym equipment as to clean
0:04:18themselves later in the shower i think
0:04:21that is just
0:04:22vastly vastly on her fair enough yeah I
0:04:25mean yeah yeah okay yeah right yeah it's
0:04:28completely unreasonable because I'm glad
0:04:31you're on board with me breathing i
0:04:31really appreciate it I'm not sure that's
0:04:33what they made by the one tower thing
0:04:35that surely surely you can get a
0:04:36different time when you go through a
0:04:37shower afterwards
0:04:39here's the thing here's the thing with
0:04:40the setup of this with with the the
0:04:42fascist like setup that this gym has has
0:04:44has arranged right
0:04:46the setup is such that you can only pick
0:04:48up the towels before you go in with this
0:04:51little membership card that they give
0:04:53you
0:04:53so the towels are not accessible when
0:04:55you are inside the gym so they have this
0:04:57big sign saying please take only one
0:04:59towel and then you have to pass through
0:05:01a barrier through which you cannot
0:05:02return to get another towel later like
0:05:05they clearly just want you to take one
0:05:06so this is why i don't i don't just take
0:05:081 i'm going to take well we'll just
0:05:10start out with I'm gonna take to write
0:05:12because i'm going to need one to clean
0:05:13down the equipment and a separate one to
0:05:15clean down myself in the shower now i
0:05:17also have it to take a third towel
0:05:19because i think it's quite reasonable to
0:05:21do the same thing in a sauna right like
0:05:23you're you're laying down in a sauna as
0:05:25a gigantic sweaty piece of meat you are
0:05:28sweating everywhere it's nicer for
0:05:30everybody again this is how civilization
0:05:32holds together if you put down a towel
0:05:34in the sauna and you sweat out your
0:05:37gross bodily fluids onto the towel
0:05:39instead of onto the wood so this is why
0:05:42I would normally take three towels into
0:05:44the gym one for the sign up one for
0:05:46cleaning the equipment and one for
0:05:47cleaning me I think this is totally
0:05:50reasonable I think three is too many
0:05:51great i think you could get away with to
0:05:53i could get away with 2 i'm not arguing
0:05:56that I could get away with too if I was
0:05:58willing to introduce and unacceptable
0:06:00level of gross into my life like oh I've
0:06:03used this towel to clean down all of the
0:06:05equipment and i'm also going to use it
0:06:07to clean down the sauna like now that's
0:06:09not it's not going to happen because the
0:06:11the cleaning down in the gym towel that
0:06:12one never really touches my skin right
0:06:14because I'm wearing gym clothes when I'm
0:06:16in the gym was in the sauna that towel
0:06:18is also touching my skin so I don't want
0:06:20to use the same towel i think that's
0:06:21quite reasonable
0:06:22I've never been to a gym where they
0:06:23haven't got that rolls of blue roll
0:06:25everywhere that blue paper that you
0:06:27could just use to wipe down the
0:06:28equipment or your forward and things
0:06:29like that they not have paper towel
0:06:31I know I know this one does not mean
0:06:34that in the main area they have drinking
0:06:36fountains and that's it and I see people
0:06:38using their one sad towel to clean the
0:06:41equipment or to do that thing like you
0:06:43reserve a piece of equipment by draping
0:06:44the towel across that they're using that
0:06:46same towel that they then take back into
0:06:48the showers and like they're all being
0:06:50all follow the sign right but i'm not
0:06:51going to follow the sign so normally i
0:06:54would take three towels but today
0:06:56because this new sign was there about
0:06:58like think of the environment as well I
0:07:01took for towels because one of them was
0:07:02just out of pure inventions and passive
0:07:04aggressiveness I thought if you're going
0:07:05to tell me you're going to tell me how
0:07:07many towels I'm supposed to take because
0:07:09of mother earth like no no I'm gonna
0:07:11take more towels because i don't think
0:07:13that sign is there because this gym
0:07:15company suddenly really cares about
0:07:18mother earth now I think they're just
0:07:19trying to come up with a better way to
0:07:21make people use fewer towels and their
0:07:24normal sign that you just said oh please
0:07:26take one towel they didn't think was
0:07:27effective enough so they've decided to
0:07:29introduce this kind of environmental
0:07:32nagging asst into the system to try to
0:07:35be more effective about reducing towel
0:07:37usage and I feel like screw you
0:07:39if you're going to do that if you're
0:07:40going to be passive-aggressive towards
0:07:41me in that way i'm going to be
0:07:42passive-aggressive towards you i'm
0:07:44taking an extra towel today it's so
0:07:45clear to me that the company's primary
0:07:47concern is the amount of money that they
0:07:50are spending on towel laundry right it
0:07:52is it has nothing to do with the actual
0:07:56environment itself like that's clearly
0:07:58what's going on and that's the thing
0:08:00that really bothers me about these kind
0:08:02of situations that you see like you know
0:08:03like you got to California and you're in
0:08:05a hotel somewhere and they have little
0:08:06sign they're like oh there's a drought
0:08:07in California please don't take a very
0:08:09long shower please don't wash your hands
0:08:10super thoroughly and like now I'm not
0:08:12gonna listen to you little sign like I
0:08:13don't think the environment is really
0:08:15your primary concern here like I think
0:08:17your primary concern is the water bill
0:08:18at your hotel
0:08:19I only ever see these kind of
0:08:21environmental signs in places where
0:08:23people are using a company's resource
0:08:27that is extraordinarily difficult for
0:08:29the company to police its usage like and
0:08:31then suddenly they're very concerned
0:08:34about the environment and wanted you to
0:08:35use as little of the resources possible
0:08:37right now please only take one napkin
0:08:39think about dear precious mother like
0:08:40now I don't think that's the reason here
0:08:42and i'm going to take extra napkins just
0:08:44because you told me not to but it is
0:08:45like a sort of a 10 gentle benefit that
0:08:48the earth does
0:08:49come out on top if we do use less water
0:08:51and waterless tails so it's almost like
0:08:54you're cutting off the earth nose to
0:08:56spite the companies face
0:08:57I mean I mean you say that you say that
0:09:00right but how how much water can
0:09:03possibly you abused by the global
0:09:06consumption of cleaning towels i think i
0:09:09don't i don't think very much
0:09:10it's it but I've put a lot i bet you
0:09:13it's a lot sometimes sometimes you see
0:09:15statistics on those little nagging
0:09:18science where they say they took give
0:09:20you all these layers of water and things
0:09:22like that and see right there right
0:09:23there with you doing you're falling for
0:09:24their trap right because look at the way
0:09:26they always express those things they
0:09:28will always give you statistics in just
0:09:30huge numbers right they play the huge
0:09:32number game that did you know that
0:09:35people washing their hands in California
0:09:36they use a bajillion leaders of water
0:09:39every minute like oh my god a bajillion
0:09:41leaders of water that sounds like so
0:09:43much the only relevant question in any
0:09:45of these scenarios i get if you're
0:09:46thinking about I really care about
0:09:48mother earth and I really care about not
0:09:50using her resources
0:09:51the thing is not the absolute amount of
0:09:53resources in any particular situation
0:09:55the question is what percent of the pie
0:09:58chart of total resource use is this
0:10:01water use for example personal water use
0:10:04like people using water for drinking and
0:10:06for showering and for laundering howls
0:10:08presumably this is like zero percent of
0:10:11the water use and and the huge huge
0:10:14amount of water use is usually ghost
0:10:16things like agriculture or some
0:10:19industrial processes right like if you
0:10:21care about the environment that is the
0:10:23thing to focus on is like changing how
0:10:25the vast majority of water is being used
0:10:29it's crazy making to focus on like the
0:10:33little thing that you can see like i
0:10:34think that's that's naturally where
0:10:36people's brains go with this kind of
0:10:37stuff they focus on like oh there's this
0:10:39little thing that I can see in front of
0:10:40me and I'm going to spend some time on
0:10:42changing its like it has no impact
0:10:44whatsoever on the global scheme charity
0:10:46of a thousand miles starts with one step
0:10:48gray but if you're just walking a
0:10:50thousand random steps in random
0:10:52directions you're making no progress on
0:10:54anything
0:10:54no progress whatsoever that's that's all
0:10:56I'm saying
0:10:57all right look this seems like a good
0:11:01time to promote one of my topics up the
0:11:04running order then because it sort of
0:11:05ties in
0:11:06go ahead it's a bit of follow-up it
0:11:09involves the invention of a new term
0:11:11which is a favorite pastime of mine we
0:11:13have another predetermined ue we do I
0:11:16want to talk about something that i'm
0:11:18going to call cheer pressure sheer
0:11:20pressure
0:11:21yeah so if i take you back to last
0:11:24episode I was talking about this this
0:11:27cricket match and how this guy had
0:11:29marked up at the end of a cricket match
0:11:30and it and then lot of people have
0:11:32criticized him online
0:11:34mm and then all these other people kind
0:11:35of rushed to his defense and said you
0:11:37shouldn't pick on Amy tried hard he put
0:11:39his hand up at the end of the game and
0:11:40you know had the courage to try and if
0:11:43he files you shouldn't you shouldn't
0:11:45pick on him and I didn't completely
0:11:47agree with that but then it had echoes
0:11:51later in the same show when I made a few
0:11:54glib comments about the space X program
0:11:58Elon Musk's private rocket company who
0:12:01that has been attempting to land Rockets
0:12:05on platforms in the sea to sort of make
0:12:08them reusable so they sort of self land
0:12:10which is quite a quite an impressive
0:12:11thing to do we make a rocket real and
0:12:14after use standing upright and had been
0:12:16a few spectacular crashes and they blew
0:12:18up and just my luck straight after we
0:12:20recorded there was a very successful
0:12:22landing at me and you have anyway that's
0:12:25that's because that's what it was it was
0:12:26like the day after we recorded he had a
0:12:28huge success
0:12:30yeah and I waited eight weeks to
0:12:31actually release the exit making you
0:12:33look like a total idiot
0:12:34yeah anyway that's beside the point that
0:12:36there were a series of quite spectacular
0:12:39crashes and I made some some jokes about
0:12:42it and I don't want to say that lots of
0:12:45people got in touch and lots of people
0:12:46complained because it's very easy to
0:12:48think when you see the 5 or 6 comments
0:12:50on reddit that that's lots of people
0:12:52when of course it's not
0:12:53whenever how many hundreds of thousands
0:12:55of people listen whatever but it does it
0:12:58does seem like loud in your head when
0:13:00you read the comments and it's easy to
0:13:02have them stick in your craw right where
0:13:04you feel like you need to address those
0:13:05things
0:13:06yeah and the main sentiment of them i
0:13:09haven't got any of them in from
0:13:10to me at the moment but i think the main
0:13:11sentiment of them were I I should know
0:13:16better as an enthusiast about space and
0:13:19the Apollo program I shouldn't be
0:13:20speaking down about SpaceX basically
0:13:24actually supporting I should be
0:13:26supporting them and there was also
0:13:28comments which is true along the lines
0:13:29of that space exploration is really hard
0:13:32and lots of things go wrong
0:13:33I'm sure you were unaware of that here
0:13:35with us face that expression is
0:13:37difficult Brady but this but this this
0:13:39new thing that's happening it ends
0:13:41something also have complained about on
0:13:43the show before and there is these kind
0:13:46of and I related to science more than
0:13:48anything because I guess I'm a society
0:13:49person and I find lots of society people
0:13:50on Twitter and that is this science
0:13:53cheerleading m and this this over
0:13:56enthusiasm and over positivity about
0:13:59anything science-related and this and
0:14:02now it's going the other way into what I
0:14:04call this cheer pressure of this kind of
0:14:06turning and belittling people if they
0:14:09dare criticize or speak against science
0:14:12or exploration or whatever their
0:14:13whatever the chosen topic is let how do
0:14:16you speak badly about SpaceX you're
0:14:18supposed to be one of us Brady you're
0:14:20supposed to be a space person you're
0:14:21supposed to be a science person you're
0:14:23not allowed to criticize SpaceX you're
0:14:25not allowed to make jokes about his
0:14:26rockets falling over like drunk people
0:14:28as they try to land on the platform
0:14:30right and and my shoot is yes I have
0:14:33it's not you're pressuring me well I'll
0:14:35make jokes about it doesn't mean i don't
0:14:38think it's also it doesn't doesn't mean
0:14:39I don't like space exploration but like
0:14:42you're allowed to criticize things
0:14:43you're there to make jokes and like
0:14:46chili everyone and like this this is
0:14:48sort of now rabbit turning on people if
0:14:50they dare
0:14:51it's almost it's like you know that code
0:14:53button on my hootsie lon mask me he's
0:14:56the Science Guy himself he's not the one
0:14:58huh but we have to make jokes at his
0:15:01expense and pick on him you know
0:15:02everyone picks on a lot mask it's like a
0:15:05it's like a fun sport isn't up I would
0:15:07never say anything bad about you like
0:15:09masquerading know you would you would
0:15:10say anything bad about him but but you
0:15:13also wouldn't turn on someone who did
0:15:14you have course not of course that TMI
0:15:16am i imagining this
0:15:18this is cheer pressure think I'm already
0:15:20trying to formulate in my mind
0:15:23like a definition for what you mean by
0:15:25this but I think that I think you're
0:15:27onto something here ready I'm
0:15:29immediately latching on to cheer
0:15:31pressure sounds right
0:15:36yeah that it's like a reverse bullying
0:15:38from people who are into a thing I i
0:15:41know i'm i'm having a hard time
0:15:43articulating what it is but just just
0:15:45like hot stoppers something about this
0:15:48feels innately right i mean it's
0:15:51basically pressuring people with similar
0:15:53interests to all be positive about the
0:15:55same thing
0:15:56hmm we must all cheer together we must
0:15:59all be cheerleaders for SpaceX because
0:16:01if one of us doesn't tell the line i can
0:16:04be interested in space exploration and
0:16:05still make jokes and criticize and
0:16:08things like this there's nothing wrong
0:16:10with that it's quite a scientific thing
0:16:12to do isn't it
0:16:12it's also just funny i think that's a
0:16:14good working definition and i like that
0:16:16and i think that there is something
0:16:17something along those lines
0:16:19what you're feeling here is one of the
0:16:23various and multitude side effects of
0:16:28humans and their group thinking I think
0:16:32there is just something innately in
0:16:34humans that is desirous of being part of
0:16:39a group like when someone listens to the
0:16:43podcast right and they hear you and they
0:16:45hear you talk about the space program
0:16:46and I can you love all of this stuff and
0:16:48if they're a person who's super into
0:16:50space they are now mentally categorizing
0:16:53you as like oh this person is in the
0:16:54exact same group is made and so then
0:16:57when there's any kind of divergence from
0:16:59that the person this kind of cheer
0:17:03pressure is is coming out right where
0:17:05the person wants to bring you back into
0:17:08line with like you are part of my group
0:17:10like I listen to the podcast I like you
0:17:13I like space hearing you say something I
0:17:15don't like about space is suddenly
0:17:17causing a problem in my brain because i
0:17:18can't neatly put you into the group of
0:17:21people who are super into space all the
0:17:23time 100-percent just like I am I think
0:17:25that's what's occurring it's because the
0:17:26people like you Brady they want you in
0:17:29the group that that's what that's what's
0:17:31occurring here that that's why I think
0:17:33like relating this to peer pressure is
0:17:35the right
0:17:36metaphor to make where peer pressure is
0:17:38about group conformity and this cheer
0:17:41pressure is a similar thing it but it's
0:17:43it's like the next level up of not just
0:17:45conformity but visible and obvious
0:17:50enthusiasm for all of the things that
0:17:52the group has decided are good to be
0:17:54visibly and obviously enthusiastic about
0:17:57em I can get behind this one and I'm
0:18:01well aware and you know although when
0:18:03our testing for the early space program
0:18:04before Mara carry their rockets were
0:18:06blowing up all the time
0:18:07there's a really famous montage in the
0:18:09film the right stuff that just shows all
0:18:10these Rockets flying up one after the
0:18:12other it's a classic it's a classic
0:18:14moment in the film and like we're just
0:18:16going through that again and do I'm sure
0:18:18I'm sure that we're getting flack at the
0:18:20time to when that when the press where
0:18:21they're filming and the Rockets were
0:18:23blowing up and you just gotta get
0:18:25through that it's just part of the drama
0:18:27of it all you know and we don't all have
0:18:29to just if everyone just choose a
0:18:31hundred percent and pat him on the back
0:18:33every time one of these Rockets blows up
0:18:34and says don't worry you'll get it next
0:18:36time and no one says gosh these people
0:18:38know what they're doing nothing ever
0:18:39gets achieved there's no pressure and
0:18:42criticism and that really pushes people
0:18:45that that scrutiny and that fear of
0:18:47failure if people are worried about
0:18:49things going wrong and I think they work
0:18:51as hard
0:18:51keeps them on their toes in a free
0:18:53society should have brought this out to
0:18:55the wide as possible that like in a free
0:18:57society
0:18:58you should be able to criticize whatever
0:19:01you want that doesn't exist and even if
0:19:03you like tremendous pier or cheer
0:19:06pressure like you you feel like you're
0:19:07not allowed to say things like I don't
0:19:08think that's good for for freezes I
0:19:10think even if you're into space
0:19:11you should totally be able to criticize
0:19:12SpaceX if you want to or just make jokes
0:19:14at their expense like yeah they're doing
0:19:17a great thing but you can laugh at it
0:19:18like it's totally fine you know they're
0:19:20just they're just words floating in the
0:19:22air they're just like thoughts and
0:19:23people had you're not going out there
0:19:24like sabotaging the Rockets when you
0:19:26criticize them for falling over the
0:19:28first few attempts this episode of Hello
0:19:31internet is brought to you by freshbooks
0:19:34freshbooks is the ridiculously easy to
0:19:36use online accounting software designed
0:19:39to help creative entrepreneurs get
0:19:41organized save time and get paid faster
0:19:44freshbooks is a super simple way to
0:19:47create and sell
0:19:49and an invoice online it literally takes
0:19:51like 30 seconds to do
0:19:54there's no formulas or formatting just
0:19:56perfectly crafted invoices every time
0:19:59your clients can pay you online which
0:20:01often means you end up getting paid a
0:20:04lot faster and i have to say having been
0:20:07on the receiving end of fresh book
0:20:09invoices I totally have paid them way
0:20:13faster because they just have it right
0:20:15there there's a couple buttons you can
0:20:17press you have a few options to pick
0:20:18they do make it super simple to pay so i
0:20:21am definitely one of those clients who
0:20:24if I receive an invoice that is from
0:20:26freshbooks I will pay it faster just
0:20:28because it's easier to do now if you
0:20:30have a client that doesn't pay you on
0:20:32time in freshbooks will handle the
0:20:33awkwardness with customizable late
0:20:36payment reminders
0:20:37not only do they do amazing invoices but
0:20:40freshbooks can also automatically import
0:20:42expenses from your bank account that can
0:20:44handle your time tracking so that when
0:20:46it comes to create that invoice you'll
0:20:48know precisely what you did and when and
0:20:51it helps you with cash flow tracking all
0:20:54of the little details about what's
0:20:56coming in and what's gone out are kept
0:20:58in one place so fresh book knows exactly
0:21:00what invoices you sent who's paid them
0:21:04and who owes you what now freshbooks is
0:21:06a new sponsor too
0:21:07hello internet and they are giving you
0:21:10dear listener the offer that if you go
0:21:12to a fresh book.com slash hello and
0:21:15enter hello Internet in the how did you
0:21:17hear about section when you sign up you
0:21:19will get a free month of freshbooks if
0:21:22you're self-employed person if you are
0:21:24running a company and you're looking for
0:21:25a better way to handle your invoices
0:21:28make things simpler get paid faster show
0:21:31freshbooks a little bit of the hello
0:21:33Internet love by going to freshbooks com
0:21:35/hello and telling them that hello
0:21:38Internet is how you heard about them
0:21:39thanks to freshbooks for supporting the
0:21:42show
0:21:45i love i love this is a recurring theme
0:21:47of you Brady you put things in the show
0:21:49notes and then when it comes around to
0:21:51the episode you think I put this thing
0:21:53in here
0:21:54why did I put this thing in here I
0:21:55remember it made me really angry at the
0:21:57time but now i can't remember what yeah
0:21:59and I I think the thing is that it and
0:22:01if you do i guess that just wasn't
0:22:03massively useful can you recap it for me
0:22:08can I tell you why you put this article
0:22:10in there yeah i think this was just this
0:22:12was just one of a series of articles
0:22:14because it because the apple watch has
0:22:16been around for a year
0:22:17people are doing retrospectives on it
0:22:19okay yeah yeah that's why there's been
0:22:21an apple watch talk in the air is it's
0:22:23been a long enough time
0:22:25interestingly Apple hasn't released
0:22:26another one which makes people sort of
0:22:28question things quite a long time for
0:22:30them to have a generation one product
0:22:31this is one of the many articles kind of
0:22:33speculating about how many watches they
0:22:37could possibly have sold and coming up
0:22:39with numbers that don't necessarily look
0:22:40great as always with this kind of stuff
0:22:43it's shockingly hard to speculate about
0:22:46some apple stuff because they play their
0:22:48cards close to the chest as much as they
0:22:50can then the apple watch is one of these
0:22:52things they group into like an other
0:22:53sales category and like who knows what's
0:22:56in that other sales category
0:22:57yeah but either way the other sales
0:22:59category didn't shoot up a tremendous
0:23:01amounts you can safely assume like they
0:23:03didn't sell a bazillion watches like
0:23:05that's part of what this is but I see
0:23:08this sentiment a bunch of times and this
0:23:11always drives me crazy with not just the
0:23:13apple watch but with any technology
0:23:15products out there in the world that
0:23:17people always phrase it in terms of need
0:23:20whether say like do you need X and
0:23:23whenever anyone is asking that question
0:23:25the answer is almost always no no you
0:23:27don't need anything
0:23:29even I would argue like a smartphone do
0:23:31you need a smartphone now like it
0:23:34doesn't really fall under the category
0:23:35of need
0:23:37it's a thing that's incredibly useful i
0:23:39just always think that that framing is
0:23:40so wrong yeah but I think you're
0:23:42thinking of need in the wrong way I
0:23:43think you use the word yourself there
0:23:45usefully is their usefulness and I think
0:23:47that's what they mean by nate they don't
0:23:49mean like food or oxygen or water and I
0:23:52think they mean it as in can you get use
0:23:54out of it
0:23:55and even though I know you don't get us
0:23:58out of a diamond necklace i guess but
0:23:59that's not really how the airport sells
0:24:01itself is just purely a piece of
0:24:03ornament it does sell herself as a
0:24:05useful item so I think it's a fair
0:24:07question to ask about it it's just a
0:24:08different type of need I think yeah I
0:24:11mean I guess I the title i would want
0:24:13would be ungainly long to people find
0:24:15economic utility in the Apple watch like
0:24:17that's the title at once i guess i can
0:24:19see why they might want to use the word
0:24:20need but i always feel like that is just
0:24:22too strong if they want to four letter
0:24:24word I i think they could say want like
0:24:26do people want an apple watch like I
0:24:29think that conveys a much better idea
0:24:31and like you said there it's like
0:24:33jewelry
0:24:34nobody in the world needs jewelry but do
0:24:36people want jewelry and its various
0:24:38forms
0:24:38yes that is clearly a demand that people
0:24:41have even though there's just no utility
0:24:43to it whatsoever but it doesn't matter
0:24:45because monkeys like shiny things right
0:24:47and so that they want to buy them want
0:24:49is slightly the wrong word to for me
0:24:51they're great because you gave me one
0:24:53for Christmas
0:24:54I'd say thank you and I maybe where
0:24:56occasionally and look at it and so uh I
0:24:59want one I want to look at it and play
0:25:01with it but nowhere near enough to pay
0:25:03for one so I don't think what is the
0:25:06right word either but i don't know
0:25:07whether right where it is
0:25:09we need a word between need and want
0:25:12yeah you're the you're the word man
0:25:14Brady yeah I'm uh I'm got that it cannot
0:25:19be weighed that was precisely like do
0:25:22people we'd an Apple watch
0:25:23ok I I don't see any problem with using
0:25:29a word like that you know within context
0:25:32i'm sure it'd be very clear do people
0:25:33we'd an Apple watch
0:25:34I don't think so ok I it's almost like
0:25:38it does therefore which have a role in
0:25:39in the world is what is coming down to
0:25:41is there a role for it in people's life
0:25:45that is the question
0:25:47and as we discussed last time like I'm i
0:25:50am surprised by the lack of Apple
0:25:52watches that I see in the real world
0:25:54it provides a great deal of utility for
0:25:56me and I totally love it but i would
0:26:00just like I would die to know like what
0:26:02does Apple internally think about their
0:26:04own app
0:26:05watch I just don't know but speaking of
0:26:07things that I weed because of You Brady
0:26:10i actually went out and bought an iphone
0:26:17SE e 0 and I am entirely blaming this on
0:26:21you because we have these conversations
0:26:23sometimes in like you plant a little
0:26:25thought in my head there's little this
0:26:28little irritating grain of sand in my
0:26:30mind that I don't want their but that
0:26:32you come along and you just drop into my
0:26:34brain and you planted one of these
0:26:37irritating grains of sand in my mind
0:26:39about the iphone SE when we discussed
0:26:42last time I know is I heard the moment
0:26:45happened I could I could I could yeah as
0:26:48I was listening to the podcast i could
0:26:50hear you like something flip in your
0:26:52voice
0:26:55yeah should be perfect sounds just like
0:27:00me
0:27:01I so there's these two conflicting
0:27:03aspects of my personality regarding the
0:27:05iphone SE the the primary one which I
0:27:08was thinking is I know that I'm a person
0:27:11who likes to have up-to-date technology
0:27:13that's just part of my personality
0:27:15that's the way that I am I know and
0:27:17accept that right and so I thought well
0:27:19getting on the iphone SE track this is
0:27:21no good because apples probably not
0:27:23going to update this for forever but you
0:27:25you planted this idea of like just try
0:27:28it
0:27:28heap it's like it like a fun romantic
0:27:30fling with this other device like that
0:27:33just lodged into my brain in this way
0:27:35that I could not possibly remove and so
0:27:37I found myself going to the apple store
0:27:39like picking up an iphone SE and looking
0:27:41at it like turning it over in my hand
0:27:44and turning it over in my mind like I
0:27:46couldn't let it go and so I eventually
0:27:49caved and I did decide to to get one and
0:27:53so i have been using the iphone SE for
0:27:55the past couple of days
0:27:57Wow and man I just like I forgot how
0:28:05perfect of a physical size this phone is
0:28:09well just
0:28:11it's it is like sweet sweet relief after
0:28:16this long nightmare of the iphone 6 and
0:28:206s generation you know how pleasurable
0:28:22it is to hold a phone and to not be
0:28:26thinking I hope this doesn't slide out
0:28:28of my hand I can hardly grip that round
0:28:30edge like it's it's it's slippery so you
0:28:32don't drop it right kind like the
0:28:34thought that is in your head every
0:28:35single time you pick up one of the
0:28:36iphone s models or like when i first got
0:28:38the original ass like oh this phone
0:28:40it's a little too big and a little too
0:28:42small at the same time like it's just
0:28:44these frustrating things like to pick up
0:28:45a phone and to have it one fit entirely
0:28:49within my hand to have a single thumb be
0:28:53able to reach every single point on the
0:28:55screen and 3 hold it securely with
0:28:58straight edges on the phone it is just
0:29:02amazing
0:29:04it's absolutely amazing i am so happy to
0:29:07be using this size phone
0:29:09well what about things like the smaller
0:29:12screen for you know watching video and
0:29:14heard you got used to the biggest grain
0:29:16and what about memory and battery life
0:29:18and the other potential drawbacks
0:29:20yeah there are potentially a bunch of
0:29:21drawbacks and when you do start using it
0:29:24at first like some of the icons do seem
0:29:26ridiculously small and all of the icons
0:29:29bunch together on the screen seem like
0:29:30point is not a lot of space between
0:29:32these iconic everything feels really
0:29:33crowded but you get used to it so fast i
0:29:36was watching a YouTube video on earlier
0:29:39that get like you were discussing for
0:29:40your own words like someone sent me a
0:29:42thing to review and so I was taking a
0:29:43look at it on the smaller phone on the
0:29:44go and it didn't even occur to me like
0:29:46oh man I just wish the screen was bigger
0:29:48like it was totally fine for purpose
0:29:49like to be able to do some basic work on
0:29:53it like it was absolutely fine
0:29:55so the smaller screen is is not an issue
0:29:58this is really interesting i'm convinced
0:30:00my biggest fans giving the IRS I oh yeah
0:30:03why do you say that I just feel like my
0:30:04the back of my right hand hurts a lot
0:30:07from when i use a loan from all that
0:30:09reaching and shimmying and so I think
0:30:12I'm gonna go smoke oh yeah and gripping
0:30:15it tightly in your hand to make sure
0:30:16that it doesn't fall right like i
0:30:17gotta-i gotta put a death grip on this
0:30:19like I'm choking a chicken to death
0:30:21right like you gotta hold on to that
0:30:22phone you know what the message here is
0:30:24great
0:30:24what's the message brandi was right
0:30:27oh yeah is that what it is yeah I do i
0:30:33do have to say like you you planting
0:30:35that seed in my head as irritating as I
0:30:39found it for i mean i don't know like
0:30:41two weeks that just kept rolling around
0:30:43in my brain and I couldn't let it go and
0:30:45I was I was genuinely annoyed with you
0:30:47in this way because it was like yeah
0:30:49like this is not rational but
0:30:50nonetheless like I can't let go of this
0:30:52thought I am just so happy I'm so happy
0:30:54now and i love this phone design
0:30:57probably the biggest challenge going
0:30:59back to it i still like i've been using
0:31:01it for a few days i still have to do
0:31:02sometimes is that again i use my iphone
0:31:05in my left hand and I have to kind of
0:31:06really remember how to type with a
0:31:08single hand and I often catch my right
0:31:12hand reaching up to help and to type on
0:31:14the phone and have to go like no right
0:31:16hand now you're not actually helpful
0:31:17here like left hand can handle this
0:31:19this thing all by itself like it can do
0:31:21all of the typing and so I'm like I'm
0:31:22trying to train my right hand to not
0:31:24come up but i want to try to type with
0:31:26two thumbs even though that's that's
0:31:28totally impossible but I'm getting used
0:31:30to it very quickly that's probably been
0:31:31the biggest adjustments but alright let
0:31:34me let you out of the wilderness but you
0:31:37are still in the wilderness bring I know
0:31:38I know and I'm cabin grreat I'm yeah I'm
0:31:42gonna change
0:31:43yeah I'm not going I'm not gonna have a
0:31:45look in the storm this weekend or
0:31:47something
0:31:48looking at it in the store I was
0:31:49thinking I'll boy like this size is
0:31:51really nice and it's interesting to use
0:31:53and i love this design like it obviously
0:31:55looks better than the garbage 6 design i
0:31:57was thinkin all of those things but
0:31:59actually using it for a few days is like
0:32:02seeing in the store x 10 it's just it's
0:32:04I keep feeling this this word of like
0:32:06relief like I am relieved to have this
0:32:09phone now it's just so much nicer and so
0:32:12much more pleasant to use in every
0:32:14possible way I like that it's smaller i
0:32:16find it like in the gym taking it in and
0:32:18out of my pocket to record like
0:32:20exercises better across every single
0:32:24axes i find this phone superior so great
0:32:28i'm going to have a mechanical watch on
0:32:30your wrist by Christmas little not
0:32:34you will not my friend you will not to
0:32:38our by next June I'm becoming concerned
0:32:43with the amount of humility that golfers
0:32:46are showing and it's being it's being
0:32:49led by this guy who's one of the big hot
0:32:51golfers of the moments got called Jordan
0:32:53space and I know that he's not the only
0:32:55one who does this but he's the one that
0:32:56I really strongly notice doing this and
0:32:58then there is referring to himself as
0:33:01way and it and partly that's because he
0:33:06has got a team of people and he has got
0:33:07his caddy so when he's on the course
0:33:09there is a real team teamwork between
0:33:10the golfer in the caddy
0:33:12I do get that and I do get that being a
0:33:14professional golfer this day these days
0:33:16isn't just like one person there is like
0:33:19a team around you but this sort of
0:33:21humbleness at the end of the round when
0:33:23you do something good and saying yeah we
0:33:25had a great day and we were really happy
0:33:27with how we played when really there's
0:33:29only one person striking the bowl and
0:33:30doing these things sometimes seems a bit
0:33:33disingenuous i'm not familiar with this
0:33:36person would he would he really say a
0:33:38sentence like that we had
0:33:40yeah we had a really great day today and
0:33:42and don't get me wrong he has got a
0:33:43caddy standing next to him who is doing
0:33:45more than just carrying his club's I do
0:33:47understand the role of a caddy and
0:33:48modern golf but still it reached as enna
0:33:51at the recent masters tournament when it
0:33:53was won by a guy called Danny Willett is
0:33:57an English guy and he was being
0:34:00interviewed afterwards he was obviously
0:34:02trying to do the way thing which
0:34:04obviously has become the thing to do now
0:34:05he was talking about how we're really
0:34:07happy way and he was sort of slipping
0:34:09between we and I in this uncomfortable
0:34:12way and it at reaching it reached
0:34:15fascicle proportions when he was talking
0:34:18about his parents and how much his
0:34:20parents did for him when he was growing
0:34:21up and he said that he said of his
0:34:24parents he said I hope they're really
0:34:26proud of the person we've become I don't
0:34:29think even the Queen we'd use we in that
0:34:32way
0:34:33no but it does but it did it did remind
0:34:35me that this is this is something that I
0:34:37think we as in people like us gray can
0:34:41be guilty of and I can be guilty of and
0:34:44they there is I quite often use way home
0:34:48when referring to things i'm doing like
0:34:51if I'm talking about something at
0:34:53numberphile or something that period
0:34:55videos i will often use way and should i
0:34:58be using I and partly using way because
0:35:02I do work with all these other people
0:35:03and there's all these people i feel-
0:35:04huge team effort but if I'm sitting here
0:35:07at my desk saying we love all these
0:35:09tweets ending in and i'm the only one
0:35:11reading them who knows about them
0:35:13it is a little bit disingenuous of me to
0:35:15be using way people like me who is sort
0:35:18of individuals but work with other
0:35:20people i sometimes get myself into a
0:35:22tangle about when I should use way and I
0:35:24wonder what you think about that but it
0:35:27didn't really occur to me I mean there
0:35:28are scenarios under which may be
0:35:30theoretically this would be a problem
0:35:31for me like with the star trek video
0:35:33that i made we're connected all the
0:35:34artwork but it wouldn't occur to me on
0:35:37Twitter to say something like we are
0:35:40really happy with the way the video is
0:35:43being received like that that would that
0:35:45would seem like i'm having some kind of
0:35:47psychotic break to write a tweet in that
0:35:51way even where it's a case like
0:35:52obviously I didn't draw that artwork
0:35:54I'm obviously not that talented but it
0:35:56would seem so strange to use a wee in in
0:36:01a scenario like that
0:36:02yeah but I don't feel strange when our
0:36:05to a tweet likes I'm tweeting under the
0:36:06periodic videos banner which is you know
0:36:08I work with all these professors and
0:36:10chemists and stuff and if I say we're
0:36:13really excited about the video we're
0:36:14putting out tomorrow when i'm just
0:36:17sitting at my desk on mine I haven't
0:36:18spoken to the others for a week auto
0:36:20right they don't know the videos even
0:36:22coming out tomorrow right
0:36:23it's just you and the dogs there yeah
0:36:25yeah so and yeah I feel completely
0:36:28comfortable saying that I do feel
0:36:29completely comfortable referring to my
0:36:31projects with a way
0:36:33ok I think there's this couple things
0:36:34that are different here that right
0:36:35because one you're tweeting from the
0:36:38periodic videos tweet right and and you
0:36:41have a separate Brady Haran twitter that
0:36:44is you as an individual
0:36:45so this is periodic videos the corporate
0:36:48entity talking about what everyone has
0:36:52done
0:36:53in the same way like we don't really use
0:36:55this is that we have a whole lot of
0:36:57sense it's all tangled in my friend you
0:36:59you and I Brady you and I do not tweet
0:37:03from the hello Internet twitter account
0:37:06very often i don't think i would go on
0:37:09to the hello Internet Twitter account
0:37:11and make any kind of statement in the
0:37:13first person I I don't think I would do
0:37:16that right i think if i hit you and I
0:37:19use the Twitter account to announce that
0:37:21you and I are going to be recording an
0:37:23episode i think i would use the word we
0:37:25if I was tweeting from the hello
0:37:26internet account we are going to be
0:37:28recording tonight is there anything we
0:37:30should talk about that seems very
0:37:31natural because it's you and me right
0:37:34yeah i think though where you run into
0:37:37more trouble to hopefully poison your
0:37:39mind to keep it is whenever you are
0:37:42talking about any of your videos because
0:37:45you are not on camera very often in most
0:37:49of your projects objectivity is a
0:37:51notable exception but for like on
0:37:53numberphile you're behind the camera
0:37:54most of the time
0:37:55hmm you know sometimes the audience will
0:37:57hear you ask a question right in that
0:37:58you're there but the person you're
0:38:00filming is the visual on-screen presence
0:38:05yeah and you are the editing presence
0:38:08and so it seems like it's almost
0:38:09impossible for you to talk about any of
0:38:12your number file like videos in anything
0:38:15other than a week yeah because it's it's
0:38:17so intrinsically a multi-person project
0:38:21even though you are doing the filming
0:38:23and you are doing the editing you aren't
0:38:26really doing any of the explaining like
0:38:28someone else's on camera doing the
0:38:30talking like you're guiding that and
0:38:32editing that it's obviously the two of
0:38:35you so from now on you should never use
0:38:37the first person singular when referring
0:38:38to any of your videos like that you
0:38:40should always usually that's what you
0:38:41should do
0:38:42yeah yeah even if you're tweeting from
0:38:46from Brady Haran we are quite pleased
0:38:49with the reception of the latest
0:38:50numberphile video that's that's what you
0:38:52should do from now on the main reason I
0:38:53started that Brady Haran Twitter was I
0:38:55was getting myself into such a pickle
0:38:57with disentangling myself from they may
0:39:01in being in projects but they're the
0:39:04mask you're being another use of the
0:39:05weave out
0:39:06yeah what do you think when i say a
0:39:10couple you know comes up to you and says
0:39:13say it like at a dinner party something
0:39:15they go we have an exciting announcement
0:39:17we're pregnant what do you think about
0:39:19that use of the way i am not a fan of it
0:39:22I don't want to offend anyone but i
0:39:25think i think only one person can be
0:39:28pregnant in that scenario i appreciate
0:39:31the Solidarity of it and if you choose
0:39:33to do it i respect to X if someone came
0:39:36up to me and said we're pregnant I
0:39:37wouldn't laugh at them and say you're an
0:39:38idiot
0:39:39only she is but it's not it's not the
0:39:42path i would choose yeah you wouldn't
0:39:44you wouldn't go that way
0:39:45no I i think it seems strange yeah but i
0:39:49but I get it you know in the modern
0:39:51world and look at you look at you being
0:39:52all diplomatic you've got you know you
0:39:54have to be sometimes you have to be I
0:39:56don't think you have to be I I think
0:39:58it's better to say that the individual
0:40:01is pregnant was pregnant I guess if you
0:40:04come up and say we're pregnant it takes
0:40:05away my ability to make the host the
0:40:07father joke
0:40:08yeah yeah there it is that is that your
0:40:13go-to very few people announced they're
0:40:15pregnant father
0:40:19it depends on the air depends on the on
0:40:22the toad turn of the announcement I
0:40:24think you could say we're having a baby
0:40:25and I'd be really comfortable with that
0:40:27no I think any one person can be
0:40:29biologically pregnant I have no such
0:40:32compulsion to avoid defense in this case
0:40:34whenever I hear anyone say we're
0:40:37pregnant
0:40:38I just internally i'm thinking you know
0:40:41how stupid you sound right now if you
0:40:43think i know i don't like this is
0:40:45supposed to be a moment where I'm really
0:40:46happy for you but really internally i
0:40:48can't help but the reflexive thought of
0:40:50like you sound like idiots at this
0:40:52moment right saying we're pregnant like
0:40:53no you're not pregnant she's pregnant
0:40:55you got her pregnant that's how this
0:40:57works we are having a baby is the
0:41:00appropriate way to phrase that you two
0:41:02having a baby but the we're pregnant
0:41:04thing it seems like bizarre over
0:41:08solidarity aside from just being an
0:41:10idiot like it's almost creepy like
0:41:12there's something about it which is like
0:41:13I don't know it's like it's too much man
0:41:16this is a nice segue to Brady's papercut
0:41:19because i haven't done it
0:41:20ladies papercut for a while it's been
0:41:21forever it has been over but my paper
0:41:25cut that I wanted to bring up today is
0:41:26also to do with the turn of phrase em
0:41:28that works me and I want to see where
0:41:33you stand up
0:41:34mhm if something happens and you're not
0:41:39particularly bothered by your shrugs
0:41:41about it which is often your response to
0:41:43it as saying you may use is I blank care
0:41:50less what would the blank baby you there
0:41:52couldn't care less
0:41:54I couldn't care less thank you i know
0:41:56lots of people say I could care less i
0:42:00think this is an Americanism I don't
0:42:02know and no man that annoys me because
0:42:04it completely changes the meaning of the
0:42:06what you sayin it's the opposite and it
0:42:10takes away the impact saying i could not
0:42:12care less is like funny saying I could
0:42:15care less means there is scope for me to
0:42:18care less so I do care to some extent
0:42:20and it's taken away all the meaning
0:42:21you're trying to give of being
0:42:23completely different i agree i think
0:42:25couldn't care less is the only
0:42:27appropriate way to phrase this
0:42:28Thank You there's no other way to phrase
0:42:30this and yes it is almost
0:42:32unintentionally hilarious that the
0:42:34person gives the exact reverse of what
0:42:36they are usually trying to say people do
0:42:38all the time
0:42:39oh I could care this really so you do
0:42:41care do that's good
0:42:42no I don't care what you just said you
0:42:44could care less so that mean yeah i
0:42:47think this is one of those cases where
0:42:48in language you you often have cases
0:42:51where people don't even hear or think
0:42:53about the words they're saying there is
0:42:56just a phrase that exists that expresses
0:42:58a thing and the person is not thinking
0:43:01about the actual words i just came
0:43:04across something like this the other day
0:43:05when i use some phrase and I had to stop
0:43:07and I felt like what does that even mean
0:43:09we could like these words that I've just
0:43:11said i know the feeling that i'm trying
0:43:13to express but has never occurred to me
0:43:14to examine these actual words before I
0:43:17really good example of that i always
0:43:20think it's not phrase but a word is
0:43:22breakfast like the word breakfast has
0:43:25transcended breaking the fast now
0:43:27moon and no one thinks of breaking fast
0:43:29when they say breakfast breakfast its
0:43:31own thing that
0:43:32that transcends its origins that that's
0:43:35a good way to put it
0:43:36and I think maybe maybe Brady if you're
0:43:38feeling in accepting food you should
0:43:39accept I could care less as breakfast
0:43:43that the person is you know what they're
0:43:45trying to express and they're just using
0:43:48a sequence of sounds to express that
0:43:49idea
0:43:50now now you know you're not gonna you're
0:43:53not gonna go with that you know is that
0:43:55it because of people started misspelling
0:43:57breakfast I wouldn't just accept that
0:43:58should do it like that I would not
0:44:02accept that sir app because because the
0:44:07thing about the thing is as well saying
0:44:10when you say I couldn't care less
0:44:12you are being smart ass like you are
0:44:15being sassy when you say I couldn't care
0:44:16less as you know on the internet when
0:44:18you are a smart so when you're being
0:44:19clever there is huge extra
0:44:21responsibility on you to get things
0:44:23right
0:44:24that's a good point yeah like I'm sure
0:44:26if you've ever written off as snarky
0:44:28comment on whether or Twitter or YouTube
0:44:30you check it and triple-checked yeah you
0:44:33haven't made you haven't we haven't made
0:44:35a spelling mistake you haven't because
0:44:36nothing looks more stupid than being
0:44:38snapped and mr. smartass and then being
0:44:40wrong yourself so i think that's what it
0:44:42is
0:44:42whoa i could converse and they're being
0:44:46they think they're being all that I feel
0:44:48like saying well you have knob you just
0:44:51said about i think you're right i think
0:44:53you're right there's something like
0:44:55intrinsically slacker teenager e about
0:44:58the phrase I couldn't care less
0:45:01that's the feeling that comes along with
0:45:02that but her shoulder when you're being
0:45:04snarky
0:45:05you have to be on the ball is like
0:45:06everybody's had the experience of giving
0:45:09into their inner grammar nazi and
0:45:11correcting someone about a picky point
0:45:13and then discovering later to their
0:45:14horror that they made an error in their
0:45:16very corrections ya know I look like a
0:45:21total moron denote the number of times
0:45:25I've corrected someone effect like Oh
0:45:27didn't you know everyone knows that
0:45:28after spending eight hours researching
0:45:30on the internet
0:45:38thank you to squarespace for their
0:45:42support of this podcast if you've never
0:45:44used Squarespace i recommend you listen
0:45:47for the next few seconds because it's
0:45:48really worth hearing about them i have
0:45:50to be used to find a little bit hard
0:45:52explaining what Squarespace is I looked
0:45:55it up on Wikipedia to see how it was
0:45:56described there and there was called a
0:45:59SAS based CMS which kind of makes sense
0:46:02if you know what those things are but
0:46:03still sounds kind of technical i
0:46:05described as a website that lets you
0:46:08make your own website now I round two
0:46:10sites of our Squarespace my own blog and
0:46:12the podcast postcard site and basically
0:46:15I just log in and it gives me access to
0:46:17the back end of both those websites
0:46:20it's a really simple clean really cool
0:46:22interface and from there I can add pages
0:46:24i can update pages i can embed my
0:46:27youtube videos insert pictures write
0:46:29blog posts i can do anything on both the
0:46:32website and within a few k stroke
0:46:34sometimes the site's updated they look
0:46:36great and they work on everyone's
0:46:38devices and computers on mobile phones
0:46:41that's all taken care of
0:46:42behind-the-scenes Squarespace has got
0:46:44great templates to get you started that
0:46:46way you can rest assure your works going
0:46:48to look professional but you can also
0:46:49get into those templates and customize
0:46:51them really tweak them to your heart's
0:46:53content make the site look your own so
0:46:55if you want to be more a part of the
0:46:57internet maybe you want to blog a
0:46:58portfolio maybe you want to start a shop
0:47:01Squarespace is great for that to really
0:47:03just give them a look give it a try
0:47:05you can actually set up a practice site
0:47:07without making any commitment just to
0:47:08see how well it works for you that's
0:47:10what I did the start if you like what
0:47:11you say you can then get ten percent of
0:47:14your first purchase by using the offer
0:47:16code
0:47:17hello at squarespace.com offer code
0:47:21hello so they know you came from the
0:47:23podcast Squarespace all one word with
0:47:26the dot-com as i said i use it i know
0:47:28gray users that we're really pleased to
0:47:30have them as a sponsor of the show our
0:47:32thanks to squarespace just a quick
0:47:35mention by popular demand how
0:47:37appropriate actually just as I started
0:47:38that sentence i'm looking at my window
0:47:40at a huge containership going along the
0:47:44Bristol Channel because it's a red
0:47:45container ship which is the same color
0:47:47as this polar research vessel that is to
0:47:51be
0:47:51instructed by the British government I
0:47:53believe to go and do science in li
0:47:58Antarctica Antarctica and they decided
0:48:01they would allow it to be named by the
0:48:03public by sort of public suggestions and
0:48:06public votes
0:48:07hmmm what could possibly go wrong
0:48:10everything everything could go wrong
0:48:12people now you don't just open up a
0:48:14collection to the internet that the
0:48:16terrible idea exactly they made two
0:48:18mistakes that you and I did not make
0:48:20when we had a flag though
0:48:22yeah because we're professionals so what
0:48:24they did not do is create their own
0:48:25short list which we did and another
0:48:28thing they didn't do is put physical and
0:48:31financial constraints between people and
0:48:33their ability to vote which we did by
0:48:35the postcards and because they made that
0:48:38mistake the internet had fun with them
0:48:41and by far and away the most popular
0:48:45name that was suggested jokingly and
0:48:47then received well over a hundred
0:48:49thousand votes to win the pole was boaty
0:48:53mcboatface which does not seem a very
0:48:59great name for a you know a polar
0:49:03exploration ship I think that we're
0:49:04imagining would be won by something like
0:49:05you know just Scott or they the her
0:49:08Royal Highness or anthem of the Seas or
0:49:11something suitably grad button but no
0:49:15boaty mcboatface so obviously that I
0:49:17think that the minister the government
0:49:19minister has had to intervene and say
0:49:21we're not going to call a podium at both
0:49:23face I think that's been taken off the
0:49:25table and I don't know what you think
0:49:27about that gray ok well i mean as often
0:49:31happens with hello Internet preparations
0:49:34you bring up a thing and you say like oh
0:49:36should we talk about this thing and then
0:49:37i say i don't know what you're talking
0:49:39about i've never heard about this thing
0:49:40so this body mcboatface thing is new to
0:49:43me as of literally an hour ago I had I
0:49:45had never heard about this but you sent
0:49:48me an article which says that would you
0:49:51describe this internet election occurred
0:49:53boaty mcboatface was selected but then
0:49:56that the UK government is saying no
0:49:58we're not going to name it bodean
0:49:59mcboatface and and obviously I haven't
0:50:03been following the story
0:50:04but it feels like okay one UK government
0:50:08you ran your election horribly for the
0:50:10reasons mentioned before to you were the
0:50:16luckiest bastards on the face of the
0:50:19earth to get the name bode mcboatface I
0:50:22could you know how horribly this could
0:50:23have gone like Modi mcboatface you
0:50:27should be kissing the ground that the
0:50:29internet selected that name like that's
0:50:31because it's like it's a fun name right
0:50:33everybody can get behind it it's like a
0:50:36look now you have this adorable Arctic
0:50:38research mascot like Brody mcboatface
0:50:40this is like the internet is you know
0:50:43sometimes it can be horrible but this is
0:50:45a moment where the Internet is blessing
0:50:47you with a bit of hilarity and then you
0:50:50make the final horrible step of coming
0:50:53in like some grumpy parent and saying no
0:50:56we can't call it Brody mcboatface we're
0:50:58going to give it some serious name every
0:51:00step of the way you have done this wrong
0:51:02like roll with it if it's boaty
0:51:04mcboatface migrate commissioned an
0:51:06artist to paint gigantic cartoon letters
0:51:10of Bodie mcboatface across the side of
0:51:12this thing i like is i went to the fuck
0:51:14yeah that's actually exactly you know
0:51:18make the stovepipe like a little hat you
0:51:20know do whatever you can do it would be
0:51:22it would like this goal
0:51:24this has got worldwide attention for
0:51:26something that was no one would have
0:51:27ever heard of people will flock to say
0:51:29it whenever it comes into port
0:51:31yeah like in Southampton wherever it is
0:51:33to let you know restock before its next
0:51:35mission people will come to see it
0:51:37they'll have their photo taken with it
0:51:38and that's a magnificent opportunity to
0:51:40then say look I know it's got a funny
0:51:41name
0:51:42let us tell you a bit about the science
0:51:43we're doing and like this was a you're
0:51:45right this was a gift horse this kind of
0:51:47backfired terribly and instead it became
0:51:49this i'm actually surprised it didn't
0:51:51get through the gray bubble because it
0:51:53even became bit of a main for a few days
0:51:55and and people were like were adopting
0:51:57determine people would say our look it's
0:51:59great grey face and let's go
0:52:03you know people would work changing it
0:52:04to whatever whatever they wanted that's
0:52:06not this is the mutation that always
0:52:08take this right here this was fantastic
0:52:11and then to come to appear like you said
0:52:12like a grumpy parent like to be so
0:52:14draconian about it
0:52:16I think I think that mr. trick and like
0:52:18I kind of get if i was spending hundreds
0:52:20of millions of pounds on a ship that was
0:52:22really proud of and I had and I thought
0:52:25it was going to have a magnificent night
0:52:26and I had a silly night i might think
0:52:28yeah yeah but that but if you did that's
0:52:31because you're a grump with no sense of
0:52:32humor or delight or anything like that
0:52:35and that's why because they're your
0:52:37government commission or something dumb
0:52:39and you don't understand how the world
0:52:41works and what's delights and sparks
0:52:44people's interest right that's probably
0:52:46why you're in the position that you're
0:52:47in right now that's probably why you ran
0:52:50this internet election the way that you
0:52:51didn't like the most cursory of research
0:52:54would have revealed that this would be a
0:52:56terrible way to run into an election
0:52:58like this is not the first time someone
0:53:00has opened up with something to the
0:53:02public for the internet to vote on it
0:53:03was like guess what they truly do the
0:53:05thing that you want them to do like
0:53:07almost by definition you are going to
0:53:09get opposite results from what you want
0:53:11the first one of these I can ever
0:53:12remember is this is ages ago but the
0:53:16first one was it
0:53:18I think was t-shirt hell but this guy
0:53:20who ran this t-shirt selling company he
0:53:23ran a poll on the internets to change
0:53:25his name like he didn't like his name
0:53:27anything at all that the internet select
0:53:28my name and now he's named sunshine
0:53:31Megatron I think that's like this is
0:53:35what happens it huh yeah like whether
0:53:39there's like a a now decade-plus history
0:53:42of this kind of nonsense happening
0:53:44yeah i don't i also wonder how many
0:53:47times they're gonna have to paint over
0:53:49someone breaking into the docks in the
0:53:51middle of the night putting proteomic
0:53:53place on the side of the thing anyway
0:53:54now
0:53:54yeah that's exactly what's gonna happen
0:53:56mr. splashy pants was another one of
0:53:58these things where Greenpeace had some
0:54:00internet name to pick like a humpback
0:54:03whale they wanted to name and of course
0:54:05it comes with mr. splashy pants and it
0:54:07was a similar thing about like there was
0:54:08no there was some pushback about it like
0:54:10this is a long time ago this is one of
0:54:11like the earlier
0:54:13reddit history kind of things like this
0:54:16is always what's going to happen like
0:54:17you're gonna do you want the internet
0:54:19and name your thing like be careful what
0:54:20you wish for
0:54:21but if they're going to name it like for
0:54:22the love of God don't go against what
0:54:24they you just like you're guaranteed
0:54:27just to make everybody angry and I agree
0:54:29with you I wouldn't be the least bit
0:54:31surprised if they end up having to deal
0:54:33with vandalism like people spray-painted
0:54:36nobody mcboatface lives across the side
0:54:39of the but it's interesting seeing like
0:54:41big organizations interact with the
0:54:43internet and always just feels like you
0:54:45guys know what you're doing like is
0:54:46there anyone on your staff who's ever
0:54:47been on the internet the kids you think
0:54:49this through to take the other side for
0:54:51a minute because it's only fair and I do
0:54:54see the other side
0:54:55hmm this is like a funny joke for a week
0:54:58or two but like you hadn't heard of it
0:55:00and the joke will go away and we'll
0:55:01forget about it in a few weeks this boat
0:55:04sorry it's not actually about which is
0:55:06another issue this ship would be built
0:55:08for another couple of years and then it
0:55:10will probably be in service for 20 or 30
0:55:13years is that is that right to have this
0:55:16this flash-in-the-pan joke on the side
0:55:19of the ship for all that time when you
0:55:21could do something a bit more dignified
0:55:23cold call at the david attenborough
0:55:25somethin okay let me ask you something
0:55:27how many boats in the world can you name
0:55:30well yeah yeah I I only a handful right
0:55:35but they all have very majestic names
0:55:37like the Queen Mary and and the Queen
0:55:40Elizabeth and things like that they
0:55:42don't have names like silly Mick
0:55:44silliness right but the thing is the
0:55:47majestic names don't guarantee
0:55:49notability because every boat has some
0:55:52majestic name right
0:55:54this is this is one way that this boat
0:55:57will at least be remembered and known
0:55:59about for a long period of time
0:56:01this makes it stand out like it's a
0:56:03funny thing it's a it's a bit of fun
0:56:04history that goes along with it makes it
0:56:06unique among the boats i don't agree
0:56:08with the like over 30 years from now
0:56:10we're going to have to be telling a
0:56:12story about how we're an internet poll
0:56:13in the name of protein mcboatface like
0:56:15that's that's part of the fun of it i
0:56:17think that's what makes it unique
0:56:18I didn't I cry out about it let me argue
0:56:20the point then I think it's incumbent on
0:56:23leaders and people in position
0:56:25of authority to think beyond and Mimi
0:56:29joke for a couple of weeks
0:56:30it's easy for you and I to see here
0:56:32don't get me wrong i know i've been
0:56:34saying they should call the boat in my
0:56:35face but it's easy for you and I to sit
0:56:37here and think it amuses us and it has
0:56:40amused the internet let's do it
0:56:42whereas there are other people who have
0:56:43to think about other considerations I
0:56:45mean in 10 years the people who run this
0:56:48ship are going to be applying to a
0:56:50different government in a different time
0:56:51in a different area to a different
0:56:53funding body saying can we have 20
0:56:55million dollars for our penguin research
0:56:57aboard the botty mcboatface and I think
0:57:01and I think and that's going to hurt
0:57:02them
0:57:03that's gonna hurt him because of a jokey
0:57:05decision that's made now whereas if they
0:57:07said can we will it hurt them though I
0:57:09don't think that's a guaranteed thing i
0:57:11don't know i think could I think I think
0:57:14people who bequeathed large sums of
0:57:16money and her allocate funds are drawn
0:57:20to integrity and seriousness more than
0:57:24they are to joke eNOS and and flippant
0:57:27things and I think labeling at boaty
0:57:29mcboatface for all time will always be a
0:57:33bit of a wink-wink
0:57:35are they serious but don't you want to
0:57:37stand out in the application pile i
0:57:38think that the legitimate argument well
0:57:40yeah you could stand out in the
0:57:42application power by dressing up as a
0:57:44clown as well standing out doesn't
0:57:46always mean success
0:57:48nope sure doesn't I do see the other
0:57:50argument I do i do think go with it
0:57:53might mind over all things considered I
0:57:55don't say roll with it
0:57:57not such a bad name that it's gonna hurt
0:57:59you forever it's not like you know they
0:58:00said that's called the Adolf Hitler yeah
0:58:02but but i do even even the adults Hitler
0:58:06I would feel like you got off lucky
0:58:08right yeah well I could have said
0:58:10something else but i probably contravene
0:58:12some of my yeah i mean that we're
0:58:13policies like yeah he could be called
0:58:15like the cup make peace with yourself
0:58:18but right like that's what I could
0:58:19recall i think it is you feel quite sure
0:58:21of baits for the episode there
0:58:23yeah like that could easily happen right
0:58:26it easily I do have some sympathy for
0:58:30putting your foot down and saying no
0:58:32we're going to have a we're going to
0:58:34have a more dignified night one of the
0:58:35best suggestions i read was someone
0:58:37saying
0:58:38because it's not actually about anyway
0:58:39but it does have like a little small
0:58:41boat on it presumably to go into a
0:58:43little coastal runs to go and see the
0:58:45Penguins like the captain's yacht and
0:58:47star trek basically yeah call the little
0:58:49mini-boat boaty mcboatface and give the
0:58:51big ship not shipping mixture place but
0:58:54it happened like like it give the big
0:58:57ship it's dignified name but at least to
0:58:59do a nod to boaty mcboatface by calling
0:59:01the small one that which I thought was
0:59:03not a bad compromise
0:59:05now now now now but now it doesn't don't
0:59:08compromise no compromise don't accept
0:59:11that internet I'm actually talking
0:59:14myself out of calling a boaty mcboatface
0:59:15now i can i can hear it in your voice as
0:59:18you go on this is what happens like you
0:59:19you initially take the other side is the
0:59:21devil's advocate and then you suddenly
0:59:23find yourself on the other side but this
0:59:25is what makes you good at your job
0:59:26I'm very persuasive great i can even
0:59:28save myself after much to it and
0:59:33throwing and spiking a nun spiking you
0:59:35did do you your encryption Apple hacking
0:59:38I phony videos i did United that there
0:59:44were there was a bit of anguish about
0:59:45this
0:59:46there was no vanquished about this even
0:59:48as you fight if you thought i should go
0:59:50ahead with making the video we're not
0:59:51know no you haven't you even gave me a
0:59:53sneaky look at a script yeah I wanted
0:59:56your input on it you talked you told me
0:59:57to go ahead a bunch of people told me to
0:59:59go ahead
0:59:59go ahead
1:00:00so yes I i did make it despite several
1:00:03weeks ago the case that brought this up
1:00:05originally was this whole like Apple
1:00:07versus the FBI thing with the FBI wanted
1:00:08Apple to open up their phone and make a
1:00:11bunch of data available and it's like
1:00:13it's a whole big complicated thing with
1:00:14tons of details that don't really matter
1:00:16but i was working on a script about that
1:00:18and then that whole thing just ended and
1:00:20i thought like oh well this is over and
1:00:22then I thought the script was kind of
1:00:23useless after that point but the story
1:00:25is not over and I i did end up
1:00:27continuing to work on it thanks partly
1:00:29to the encouragement of you and some
1:00:30other people and so yeah I put two
1:00:33videos of which are sort of about the
1:00:35Apple FBI thing without ever mentioning
1:00:37the Apple or the FBI thing because I
1:00:39think there's a there's a much bigger
1:00:41question here which is about encryption
1:00:44just in general I have two questions
1:00:46great em both of them will portray
1:00:49perhaps ignorance in the subject that's
1:00:51okay i buy revel in my ignorance
1:00:53the first one is about this warrants and
1:00:55searching because obviously there is
1:00:58this different situation that like you
1:01:00know judge can issue a warrant and the
1:01:02police can break your door down and
1:01:05search your house if you if you if you
1:01:06don't let them in
1:01:07what's the situation with phones in
1:01:10terms of if you were still alive who and
1:01:13the judge said the police have the right
1:01:16to look into cgp grace phone
1:01:18great please enter the code so the
1:01:19police can look em presumably you can be
1:01:23compelled to do that under and if you
1:01:25don't know put you in prison for
1:01:26contempt of court like I'm assuming they
1:01:29can still do that because also they do
1:01:30that with you know when people were
1:01:31texting while they were driving and
1:01:33things like that are what's the what's
1:01:35the law there i'm not talking about
1:01:36Apple breaking into the fine which i
1:01:38think is very different
1:01:40yeah the different that's a different
1:01:41question what's the situation with
1:01:42compelling use the phone owner to
1:01:44presumably that's like any other warrant
1:01:46and a judge can do that
1:01:48the answer is it depends on where you
1:01:50live yeah and so if we take where we are
1:01:53right now in the United Kingdom the
1:01:55United Kingdom has written into the lot
1:01:59that they can compel you to reveal the
1:02:02passwords to your devices right so if
1:02:05you're involved in a trial in the UK
1:02:06they can say open up your phone and if
1:02:09you say no there are criminal penalties
1:02:12force
1:02:13a no-no that's its time in prison you're
1:02:15in contempt of the coal crackling enjoy
1:02:17your time in solitary until you open
1:02:19this phone like that that's what's going
1:02:20to happen you have to choose not to but
1:02:23they're going to compel you
1:02:24yeah now what I think is of a very
1:02:29interesting unique and I think important
1:02:34part of the US legal system is this
1:02:37protection against self-incrimination
1:02:40now yeah some other places have this but
1:02:43the United States has a particularly
1:02:45strong version of this we're essentially
1:02:48like the court cannot compel you to
1:02:51speak or to act and so in the United
1:02:54States if you have a phone and they say
1:02:57open up this phone you are legally
1:02:59allowed to just sit there and do nothing
1:03:01you don't have to comply and they cannot
1:03:04punish you for non-compliance around and
1:03:08so this places the burden on the state
1:03:11to prove things like you are you cannot
1:03:14incriminate yourself and I think that's
1:03:17where a lot of the really interesting
1:03:19parts around this issue turn my
1:03:23understanding i might not be one hundred
1:03:24percent accurate about this my
1:03:26understanding though is that there is a
1:03:27little wrinkle with the fingerprint
1:03:29sensor that police in the united states
1:03:34can compel you to like touch the
1:03:38fingerprint sensor there's like there's
1:03:39something about this we're like the
1:03:40police are allowed to put the phone
1:03:42against your finger and that doesn't
1:03:44actually count as compelling you to do
1:03:46anything right and so like the
1:03:48fingerprint sensor is like a is a bit of
1:03:50a weird loophole in this so there are
1:03:52ways that they can try to legally get
1:03:53into your phone but they can't they
1:03:55can't make you reveal the password which
1:03:57there there's some interesting
1:03:58consequences to both sides of these for
1:04:02example i think the right to be able to
1:04:06remain silent
1:04:08I really think that should be part of
1:04:10every legal system because one of the
1:04:12things that I don't like about the UK
1:04:15system where they can compel you to
1:04:17speak is that you can end up in
1:04:19situations where you are trapped so I
1:04:24mean let's say that the police
1:04:26read your home and within your computer
1:04:29file somewhere is an encrypted file that
1:04:32you don't know anything about that you
1:04:35like you downloaded from somewhere like
1:04:36some malware put on your computer or
1:04:38whatever you can be in a situation where
1:04:40they want to compel you to open that
1:04:41file and it's like I can't I don't know
1:04:44the password then like well we're gonna
1:04:46make you think about that like go ahead
1:04:47and sit in prison until you're able to
1:04:49open up this file i don't like the even
1:04:51the legal possibility of of a situation
1:04:54like that occurring I don't think that's
1:04:57a good thing to have in a legal system
1:04:59that a person is required to perform an
1:05:03action in order to not be in prison i'm
1:05:06very strongly on the opposite side like
1:05:08the burden should be on the state to do
1:05:10everything to prove your guilt not the
1:05:14other way around like I don't like
1:05:15making things super easy for the
1:05:17government to put people in prison I
1:05:19think it definitionally should be a
1:05:21difficult thing I'm sure I've seen lots
1:05:23of American TV shows where people put in
1:05:26prison for being in contempt of court
1:05:28until they cough up the name or they
1:05:29cough up a source or something so surely
1:05:31there are some situations in America
1:05:33where they compel people to do things
1:05:36well I know you shouldn't base your
1:05:38knowledge of the lower on American TV
1:05:40shows but i'm going to guess most of
1:05:42those cases have to do with a horrible
1:05:45horrible plea bargaining system that
1:05:47occurs in the united states there are
1:05:49many ways in which you can be held in
1:05:52prison like awaiting a trial and then
1:05:54there's this whole question about like
1:05:55what counts as a speedy trial in the
1:05:57United States how long can they keep you
1:05:58just waiting around like I think there's
1:06:00certainly an amount of of wiggle room
1:06:03about that i'm just talking about the
1:06:05situation like when you get to a trial
1:06:08like a trial is occurring what can
1:06:10happen in in that scenario but in the
1:06:12u.s. like his kidney to do something
1:06:15about this but it's it is a horrible
1:06:17situation like very very few cases ever
1:06:19make it to trial they are all handled in
1:06:22this very very high stakes
1:06:25confrontational high-pressure plea
1:06:27bargain kind of way where a lot of the
1:06:29normal protections just don't work
1:06:30because you're like bargaining with
1:06:32lawyers so I think I imagine like that's
1:06:35what you're thinking about that's what's
1:06:36occurring there
1:06:36another thing about your video on
1:06:39encryption that struck me who was a kind
1:06:42of not that it was your job to question
1:06:46but you can't have had an unquestioning
1:06:48faith in the integrity of encryption and
1:06:53I don't know whether that's founded on
1:06:55and I know that how how safe is you know
1:06:59mathematical encryption I mean you know
1:07:01I've done videos about and I'm i'm aware
1:07:03of some of the things involved and the
1:07:04prime numbers and and how it works and
1:07:07things but you know with that we don't
1:07:09know where quantum computing is really
1:07:11at yea yea and things like that so i
1:07:14mean hell with you you're assuming a lot
1:07:17about the integrity of encryption when
1:07:19you're making your arguments to do
1:07:21question that in your head there there
1:07:22is a brief moment in the video in one of
1:07:25the slides where I make a reference to
1:07:27on the screen there's a visual reference
1:07:28to quantum computing just messin all of
1:07:30this up because I didn't want to kind of
1:07:32get it on record like I acknowledge
1:07:33there are future technological problems
1:07:36that may undo all of our current state
1:07:39of of encryption they may actually end
1:07:41up introducing with quantum computing
1:07:43greater levels of encryption but we can
1:07:45certainly say like stuff encrypted today
1:07:47could be quite trivial for a quantum
1:07:51computer years from now to unencrypt
1:07:53like that we may very well be in that
1:07:55case but there's two things that are
1:07:58going on here like one is just this idea
1:08:00of as a person can you encrypt data on
1:08:08your computer in such a way so that no
1:08:11one can practically access it and the
1:08:14answer to that is yes because as far as
1:08:18we know unless the NSA has some secret
1:08:20quantum computer somewhere they're not
1:08:22telling us about like an individual on
1:08:25their own computer can encrypt files in
1:08:29a way that it makes them essentially
1:08:31unavailable for the rest of time
1:08:33presuming no massive technological
1:08:34changes
1:08:36and I think that's like that's a really
1:08:40interesting fact and i was trying
1:08:43forever to come up with an analogy to
1:08:44explain like how is this the case
1:08:46because when people think about like
1:08:48locking something away fundamentally
1:08:51what you're doing is you are putting a
1:08:53thing in a container and you're trying
1:08:55to make the container really secure but
1:08:58the thing is still inside the container
1:09:00but the way encryption works is it's
1:09:04like well if you encrypt if you
1:09:07encrypted drive on your computer
1:09:10it's almost like the data isn't there on
1:09:12the drive anymore until you enter the
1:09:15password to like she move all of the
1:09:17bits back around into a readable fashion
1:09:19so it's it's not like someone can crack
1:09:22into it like you can break into a safe
1:09:24and retrieve the thing like encryption
1:09:26because of the magic of mathematics like
1:09:28it makes this stuff not there until the
1:09:31password is provided like there's
1:09:33there's nothing to break you're
1:09:35splitting hairs now that I mean that's
1:09:36like if I had a completely unbreakable
1:09:39safe with a million dollars and I could
1:09:41say well the million dollars isn't
1:09:42really there because the skin is an
1:09:43unbreakable safe but there's no physical
1:09:45say that you could build its unbreakable
1:09:47well you could argue there's no form of
1:09:50encryption of the data that's
1:09:52unbreakable to I don't know but see this
1:09:54is your assumption you're so now but
1:09:56that encryption is unbreakable
1:09:57I am saying that like my understanding
1:09:59of this is that if if you if you
1:10:02encrypted drive it with a secure enough
1:10:05password
1:10:06the only way to get that password is to
1:10:08brute force it and like all of the
1:10:10computing technology in the world will
1:10:11not let you do that
1:10:12basically you're saying to me you do
1:10:14have faith in modern encryption barring
1:10:17people having password 123 or right yeah
1:10:20I think stupid you do have faith in
1:10:22encryption but and fair enough fair
1:10:25enough maybe you're right maybe I don't
1:10:27know that encryption i guess a bit of an
1:10:29elephant in the room and I don't know if
1:10:31more has come out about this or you you
1:10:33have your own theory but the the FBI did
1:10:36suddenly saying this said their do you
1:10:39know San Bernardino case ma'am they
1:10:42suddenly said I we've got into the phone
1:10:44now I had to get into it so this is the
1:10:47it the other issue that i'm not touching
1:10:49on in the video because I'm trying to
1:10:52keep it like oh we're in the Platonic
1:10:54ideal of encrypting a phone right like
1:10:56that that is the realm in which my video
1:10:58exists
1:10:59yeah right but there is a totally
1:11:01separate unrelated issue which is how
1:11:04secure can a particular company make a
1:11:08particular model of phone and that is
1:11:12the question which i'm not talking about
1:11:13because the answer is like there have
1:11:15been tons of security exploits with
1:11:18apple stuff and android phones over the
1:11:20years and various models of phones like
1:11:22they are no stranger to various ways of
1:11:25people breaking into their particular
1:11:28phones right like that that definitely
1:11:31exists and apple overtime has i will
1:11:35just speak about because that's the one
1:11:36I'm more familiar with but Apple
1:11:37overtime has tried to increase the
1:11:39security of their phones and if you want
1:11:42to read a document which I think exists
1:11:45at the intersection of fascinating and
1:11:48deadly boring apple makes a lot of their
1:11:51security documents available online and
1:11:54i was reading through a bunch of these
1:11:56where they talk about how their security
1:11:58systems work and like they have such a
1:12:01difficult problem because the example i
1:12:04was using before where you are an
1:12:06individual on your own computer
1:12:08attempting to encrypt your own files
1:12:11against very straightforward you can do
1:12:13that with with available software but
1:12:15Apple is in this difficult position of
1:12:17like they want to sell you a device that
1:12:21they want to be able to remotely update
1:12:24to make changes to write and in which
1:12:27you are also going to put on your data
1:12:30like that's an incredibly difficult
1:12:32thing to do like they want your data to
1:12:35be secure on the phone while also they
1:12:39have the ability to remotely change the
1:12:42software on the phone like it never
1:12:44really occurred to me before reading
1:12:45through some of the security documents
1:12:46but that is a hell of a hard problem to
1:12:48solve and it's fascinating like all of
1:12:51the ways that they have tried to go
1:12:53about this like they you know each phone
1:12:56has like this randomly burned in series
1:12:58of on and off transistors that are
1:13:00use is like this local thing to encrypt
1:13:02the files and they combine that with
1:13:04like data from your fingerprint like
1:13:06they do they are doing so much crazy
1:13:08stuff to try to prevent them prevent
1:13:12Apple to prevent anybody else from being
1:13:14able to access the data on the phone
1:13:16except you and it's so hard especially
1:13:19when you consider like most people are
1:13:20using a 4-digit pin on their phone
1:13:22so it's it's a fascinating problem that
1:13:24they have but because their situation is
1:13:26not straightforward because they are
1:13:29putting out into the world these phones
1:13:31that they also want some level of access
1:13:32to this is one of the reasons why there
1:13:34are particular security flaws in the
1:13:38phones that do allow people to get
1:13:40access like Apple tries to fix them as
1:13:42much as they can they're always trying
1:13:43to make the phones more secure with each
1:13:45generation but they're they're just
1:13:48doing a thing that's going to be
1:13:49fundamentally flawed in some scenarios
1:13:51and so again I don't really want to get
1:13:55into someone like the details of this
1:13:57particular case but i'll just say that
1:14:00like it came up because that particular
1:14:02phone the iphone 5c had some particular
1:14:06security flaws that the FBI wanted Apple
1:14:10to exploit right and that had been a
1:14:12newer phone like oh we we solve those
1:14:15security problems that can no longer be
1:14:17fixed the this to me is two different
1:14:19questions like is encryption a thing
1:14:22that that exists that can be
1:14:25theoretically unbreakable
1:14:26yes can Apple make a phone that is
1:14:30perfectly always unbreakable in all
1:14:33scenarios the answer the questions so
1:14:36far is like no but they're always
1:14:38getting better at that like they're
1:14:40trying to move more and more toward that
1:14:43direction like they they are clearly
1:14:44trying to close off more and more of
1:14:48people's data from themselves from
1:14:50anybody being able to access it but I
1:14:52really think those are two very
1:14:53different questions this episode of
1:14:57Hello internet is brought to you by
1:14:58backblaze which again quite frankly I'm
1:15:02always a little bit surprised that back
1:15:04plays keeps buying these ads because it
1:15:06means that you listeners there are still
1:15:09so many of you who keeps signing up with
1:15:12backblaze
1:15:13because you are living with unprotected
1:15:15data just sitting on your hard drives
1:15:17waiting to disappear at any moment I
1:15:20don't know how many times I have to keep
1:15:21telling you if if you don't have online
1:15:23backup you are crazy you are just living
1:15:25a wild reckless life inviting digital
1:15:29disaster in if this is you go to
1:15:32backpage.com / hello internet right now
1:15:35and sign up for unlimited on throttle
1:15:39back up for just five dollars a month
1:15:42these guys are the total experts they
1:15:45have over 150 petabytes of data backed
1:15:48up they restored 10 billion files for
1:15:51their customers if you're away from your
1:15:53computer and you need to just get access
1:15:55to one file this is something that you
1:15:57can totally do I have done this so many
1:16:00times for video projects that i have
1:16:03archived on this huge hard drive that
1:16:07sitting next to me here now
1:16:08that stuff's not in my regular sinking
1:16:11system but i can get access to it
1:16:13through backblaze if I'm somewhere else
1:16:15and I need to get an asset file from a
1:16:16video it's just it's fantastic
1:16:18now since we've been talking about
1:16:19encryption one of the little features
1:16:21that backblaze has is if you are
1:16:24extremely concerned about your digital
1:16:27security in the way that I am
1:16:29backblaze has the option where if you
1:16:32know what you're doing you can enter a
1:16:35private encryption key
1:16:37this means that all of the data that's
1:16:39uploaded to backblaze even if say oh I
1:16:43don't know some government issued a
1:16:45warrant saying that they wanted access
1:16:47to all of your digital backups there's
1:16:50nothing backblaze can give them they can
1:16:52hand over the encrypted files but tough
1:16:55luck
1:16:55now this is for experts only if you are
1:16:59going to enable this feature you really
1:17:02better know what you're doing because if
1:17:04you lose your private encryption key and
1:17:06your house burns down and as I have
1:17:09learned disasters always come in more
1:17:11than one you are going to be totally out
1:17:13of luck you will not be able to restore
1:17:15your files there is nothing backblaze is
1:17:17going to be able to help you with that
1:17:19is the flipside of security but i really
1:17:23like that back plays even has this as
1:17:26an option for the super duper privacy
1:17:30concerned once again it just shows these
1:17:33guys are pros
1:17:35again I cannot emphasize this enough if
1:17:38you are still listening to me and you
1:17:41don't have online backup on your
1:17:43computer you need to go to backpage.com
1:17:46/ hello internet right now and sign up
1:17:50for their five dollars a month per
1:17:52computer for unlimited on throttled back
1:17:56up their trial is risk free no credit
1:17:59card required you have nothing to lose
1:18:02except all of your data if you don't
1:18:06sign up thanks to backblaze for
1:18:08supporting the show you said one other
1:18:11thing in your second video which unless
1:18:15i misunderstood
1:18:17mmm i disagree with in your second video
1:18:20about how important our phones are to us
1:18:23know you made it you made the point that
1:18:25given the choice between allowing
1:18:27someone to read your mind or read
1:18:29through all the contents of your find em
1:18:32you think reading the mind is the better
1:18:35option
1:18:37I think under certain circumstances yes
1:18:39yeah I do think that I think that's only
1:18:43true under very very limited
1:18:44circumstances and I like I can't agree
1:18:47with you I think that was a slightly
1:18:49inflammatory and ridiculous thing to say
1:18:52why do you think it's ridiculous because
1:18:56someone being able to read all the
1:18:59contents of your mind is far more
1:19:01revealing and potentially damaging and
1:19:05i'm assuming damage limitation was the
1:19:07premise of the question and far more
1:19:09damaging than someone reading the
1:19:11contents of your phone and I think you
1:19:13agree because yeah you have that sound
1:19:16about you i'm trying to think about how
1:19:18to have to bring a brady over to my side
1:19:20here era but i think this is there's a
1:19:23fundamental problem which is that I am a
1:19:27very present and future oriented person
1:19:31and I think you are much more of a past
1:19:34oriented person
1:19:36and i have a hell of a hard time
1:19:39remembering lots of things in my own
1:19:40life I think this is so much stuff that
1:19:43I just forget all the time like my wife
1:19:45constantly comments on this about how
1:19:47things that happened a year ago from my
1:19:49perspective it's like they never
1:19:50happened ever like wet when did this
1:19:52occur i have no idea
1:19:53and so I feel like my mind might be
1:19:55particularly perhaps unusually devoid of
1:19:59records right this is not the whole lot
1:20:01stored in there that it's much more like
1:20:03oh what's going on right now of course
1:20:05like people have thoughts like there are
1:20:07things that you don't want other people
1:20:08to like hear that you're the butt of
1:20:10course the sub focalized voice in your
1:20:12head is is talking all the time now but
1:20:15I can honestly say that would I rather
1:20:17have someone read my mind or read my
1:20:19phone i think i would rather have
1:20:21someone read my mind
1:20:22your phone has just so many records of
1:20:25absolutely everything in your life that
1:20:27you don't even know what's in your phone
1:20:30like what would embarrassing stuff isn't
1:20:32that's crazy great that's crazy
1:20:35let me let you look at the extreme
1:20:37criminal example fair strap say you were
1:20:41accused of some terrible heist in whom
1:20:46the diamond heist in the centre of
1:20:48London and the police have got you in a
1:20:50cell and I say gray can we read your
1:20:52mind or can we read your phone
1:20:54well have I committed the heist yes
1:20:57you've committed the whole cast of
1:20:58computerized the communities like this
1:20:59is overhead what's the situation here
1:21:01that you could now you're not going to
1:21:04forget that you committed the highest
1:21:06you might you might forget where you
1:21:08were on april two 2014 when you met with
1:21:12me to Planet em but you're not gonna
1:21:14forget you did it so when they use their
1:21:16incredible mind-reading probe that
1:21:19borrowed from death theta mu they're
1:21:21gonna know straight away they're gonna
1:21:23say the first thing i'll ask you this
1:21:24did you do the highest your brain will
1:21:26say yes and and then you're after jail
1:21:29it was awful
1:21:31yeah whereas it's very unlikely you have
1:21:33written in your phone i did the highest
1:21:35there'll be lots and lots of evidence i
1:21:37was at this place at this time I was at
1:21:39this place at this time
1:21:40here are the blueprints of the building
1:21:42here at here or this his discussion
1:21:44about where Atkins here's me looking at
1:21:46websites about selling diamonds
1:21:48there's gonna be a ton of circumstance
1:21:49actual evidence that they can use to
1:21:51build up the case against you but
1:21:53nothing more powerful than your brain
1:21:55just saying yes i did a little like with
1:21:58this perfect breeding machine so
1:21:59straightaway
1:22:00I've got you by reading in mind
1:22:02regardless of all this evidence and also
1:22:04so I think the criminal example just
1:22:07folks to pieces because no one forgets
1:22:09their criminal and I and just to be
1:22:10clear i agree with you there
1:22:12i I'm not gonna I'm not gonna take the
1:22:14opposite position that like if I am
1:22:16actually a diamond hyster then yes I
1:22:19would rather have someone look at the
1:22:21phone then have my own brain and play
1:22:25back the memory of like here's me doing
1:22:27this diamond heights now let's say
1:22:29you're talking about like just your
1:22:31friend like are you going to let me read
1:22:33your mind gray or are you gonna let me
1:22:35look at your fine and if i look at your
1:22:36phone I'll see all the texts and emails
1:22:39you sent to your friends and family
1:22:40saying our brain is really pissing me
1:22:42off today and they're all those
1:22:43embarrassing things right that you don't
1:22:45want me to say and you've even feel and
1:22:47you forgotten you even set the right of
1:22:48course like you you forgotten someday
1:22:50you pissed off at me two years ago it
1:22:52would be really embarrassing if I then
1:22:53read it because you don't even feel that
1:22:55way anymore you but I still think it's
1:22:57much more damaging if I'm able to go
1:22:59into your brain and find out your true
1:23:02real feelings like I don't like the way
1:23:04he looks so I don't like the way he
1:23:06smells or you know because that's also
1:23:08more truth if i look at your phone I'll
1:23:10have my feelings hurt but at least I
1:23:13could tell myself I would like that was
1:23:15two years ago and I was big bit of a
1:23:17dick that day so fair enough but if i
1:23:19can go straight into your brain and know
1:23:21your innermost feelings and your deepest
1:23:24thoughts that's much more potentially
1:23:26hurtful or private and sure you can't
1:23:32remember little details but that's the
1:23:33core of who you are in your brain and
1:23:35you can tell me it changes over time and
1:23:37that but i think that's much more
1:23:39damaging our can't see a circumstance
1:23:41where I think being able to read my mind
1:23:45would be less damaging than being able
1:23:47to read my fine i certainly don't want
1:23:48people to read my phone will and you're
1:23:50right i forgot her more than half the
1:23:52stuff in it and it would be really
1:23:53embarrassing but being able to get into
1:23:55my brain
1:23:56we're all my deepest darkest thoughts
1:23:58are things I would never even right into
1:24:00a phone and
1:24:01I don't want people going in there so no
1:24:05I I genuinely feel if we were sitting at
1:24:07the pub and I could hand you my phone or
1:24:08hand you my brain I'd rather hand you my
1:24:10brain
1:24:11it's pretty interesting guy I feel like
1:24:13yeah go ahead look through like
1:24:15obviously they'd be embarrassing stuff
1:24:17in my brain but I feel like the the
1:24:19phone you know again assuming that you
1:24:22were able to like understand everything
1:24:25on the phone in the same way that you
1:24:26are able to understand everything on the
1:24:28brain i feel like there's potentially
1:24:30way worse stuff on the phone that I
1:24:31can't even remember or think about it
1:24:34like you said stuff that is not even
1:24:36relevance now but could somehow be
1:24:38damaging like it just feels like there's
1:24:40so much more potential there then like
1:24:43what's in my brain now like no I'm not a
1:24:46whole lot i don't agree because with
1:24:49this braid with this hypothetical
1:24:50operating that were talking about
1:24:51appreciating I can I can you know
1:24:53interrogate you for what I want like
1:24:55your opinions and feelings I am
1:24:58presuming that i'm presuming that you
1:24:59would have access to the state of my
1:25:02brain in the same way that i have access
1:25:03to the state of my brain
1:25:04surely that's more damaging because I
1:25:06could find out really personal things
1:25:08about you that you would never have
1:25:10committed to your phone before
1:25:12yeah but i don't know like did years ago
1:25:15me commit really personal stuff to my
1:25:17phone
1:25:18I don't know possibly probably i don't
1:25:20know i'm not saying there's none of that
1:25:21there of course there's gonna be tons
1:25:23and tons of it but not more than the
1:25:26ability for me just to read your mind
1:25:27and find out what you think about
1:25:28everything I guess what I feel here is
1:25:30like I am more confident in the limited
1:25:34content of my brain that I am in the
1:25:36what seems like near-infinite content of
1:25:39my phone it's almost like a devil you
1:25:41know vs devil you don't know situation
1:25:43here and if you like the phone is the
1:25:45devil i don't know like dear god what
1:25:47did I type into that thing three years
1:25:49ago I have no idea but let's not let
1:25:51anybody look at that I don't even want
1:25:53to look at that I'd enough i should read
1:25:56into this that you're actually just a
1:25:57really really lovely person in your
1:25:59brain or that you're really really
1:26:00worried about what you would like a few
1:26:02years ago
1:26:03let me ask you something else about that
1:26:09though era because all of this the
1:26:13encryption stuff or like reading your
1:26:14mind reading your phone
1:26:16I feel like this is all a sideshow in
1:26:18the same way that like the star trek
1:26:20video was all like a sideshow to what i
1:26:21thought was the actual point what do you
1:26:24think about taking the phone or other
1:26:28digital devices in your life and
1:26:30considering them in a legal sense as an
1:26:33extension of the self within and here i
1:26:36want to say like let's talk about this
1:26:38in the context of American law or like
1:26:40you are not obligated to incriminate
1:26:42yourself and so in some sense like that
1:26:46is legal protection for the state of
1:26:48your brain
1:26:49what what do you think about
1:26:50establishing some kind of legal
1:26:51precedent to say like we are going to
1:26:53decide that a person's phone is like an
1:26:57off-board brain and this is legally
1:26:59protected as part of the self in the
1:27:02same way that we protect people's brains
1:27:04as part of the self or interesting i
1:27:08think my first instinct is no because
1:27:11everything going into your phone is
1:27:14still a document that paperwork who like
1:27:18every every photo and just because we're
1:27:20becoming a lot more prolific with their
1:27:22creation of the paperwork doesn't make
1:27:24them it's not paperwork so my first
1:27:27instinct is now these are all still
1:27:28these are also documents that can be
1:27:30treated as separate from who we are
1:27:33whether or not that means everyone
1:27:34should you know whether or not it may
1:27:36just open season on people saying them
1:27:37is another question but it's also
1:27:39questionable about the paper i have in
1:27:41my cupboard you know not everyone can
1:27:43look at that other right but we're
1:27:45talking about it i got like in illegal
1:27:46contact here right that we can just say
1:27:50that you are falsely accused of a crime
1:27:52but none-the-less like there is a new
1:27:54somehow live in America but nonetheless
1:27:55there's a warrant to seize all of all of
1:27:58your documents right and and then the
1:28:00question I think is like does that
1:28:01include all of the documents on your
1:28:04phone or is it just limited to the
1:28:05documents in your house like how how far
1:28:09can that go
1:28:10I guess the phone could start becoming
1:28:11quite handy refuge of the criminal
1:28:13couldn't because phone so powerful now
1:28:15and could hold so much that
1:28:16you just do everything with your phone
1:28:18and put everything in your phone
1:28:19comfortable in the knowledge that it
1:28:22could never be scrutinized no matter
1:28:24what you do
1:28:25so what you can do that with your own
1:28:28brain now right like you know I'm sure
1:28:30criminals in the past they have the
1:28:31option of not committing things to paper
1:28:34yeah I don't think criminals could use a
1:28:37thing it to me is always one like the
1:28:39worst argument ever look good there we
1:28:41have tools and criminals can use tools
1:28:44but tools are still good we don't ban
1:28:46tools of any kind
1:28:47it's true i'm only asking because i
1:28:49think this is the part of the video but
1:28:52we also don't we also don't ban the
1:28:53police from the fingerprinting those
1:28:55tools are checking the bloodstains on
1:28:56the master crimes committed right right
1:28:58and and i think that's that's where this
1:29:00this balance comes in right of how much
1:29:04power do we grant to authorities where
1:29:06do we set the boundaries of personal
1:29:09liberty like what
1:29:10where is that edge that the reason I
1:29:13think this is so important is is just go
1:29:15back to the mind-reading
1:29:16ever-so-slightly I don't think that we
1:29:19live in a world where it is unreasonable
1:29:20to expect that at some point we really
1:29:23will be able to build essentially
1:29:24mind-reading machines right or close
1:29:27enough and then and then I think like
1:29:30boy the American legal system has a
1:29:32really interesting question their of if
1:29:34we legally protect your right to not say
1:29:37anything does that but do we legally
1:29:39protect your right to not be in a brain
1:29:42scanner that's an interesting question
1:29:44am I my gut reaction is that protection
1:29:47against self-incrimination should extend
1:29:50to the mind just in general so that in
1:29:52the future scenario where we do have a
1:29:54brain reading machine
1:29:56you should not be able to compel someone
1:29:58to go in a brain reading machine i think
1:30:01that counts of self-incrimination
1:30:02yeah that was the most hesitant yes in
1:30:06the world do you think so do you not
1:30:07think so are we assuming a completely
1:30:10flawless braiding machine
1:30:12let's assume that it actually works
1:30:13right it it works as well as as someone
1:30:16reading a piece of paper works i guess
1:30:17it comes down to whether or not you
1:30:19think the the system is this legal
1:30:21systems main goal
1:30:25is to establish truth and then executes
1:30:30justice or to protect people from
1:30:34getting themselves in trouble and if
1:30:36you've got an absolutely perfect perfect
1:30:39hundred percent platonic brain reading
1:30:41machine wooooo
1:30:43well that's the end of course isn't like
1:30:44words did you killer well that's that
1:30:46said let's find out
1:30:48perfect range machine yes i did killer
1:30:51here's the circumstances
1:30:53what you gonna do about it what's
1:30:54justice and the only reason to sort of
1:30:57protect the rights of the people from
1:30:58self-incriminating is floors in the
1:31:00legal system but you've given me a
1:31:02flawless machine to find out what
1:31:04happened i don't actually agree that a
1:31:07perfect mind reading machine would be
1:31:08the end of the legal system are you to
1:31:10also talking about false memories or
1:31:12because people can be wrong about the
1:31:14state of their own mind while they're ok
1:31:16I was sort of my platonic machine had
1:31:18gotten around that problem right yeah
1:31:20yeah but now you're just talking about a
1:31:22magic machine right beginning that
1:31:24people are are often wrong about the
1:31:26state of of their own yet right which is
1:31:28which starts get you into such strange
1:31:30things and you know and it's one of
1:31:32these cases where when high-profile
1:31:35crimes occur it is not unusual for
1:31:38police to get tons of just confessions
1:31:40from people or places like oh I did this
1:31:41crime
1:31:42oh no you didn't you just crazy right
1:31:44here a lunatic you think you did this
1:31:46but you didn't do this so yeah machine
1:31:48isn't magic but it is a perfect brain
1:31:50reading machine and that's a different
1:31:52thing I mean what a perfect legal at
1:31:54justice system create a situation where
1:31:57people didn't remain silent everyone
1:31:59just calmly without pressure told what
1:32:02they think their version of the stories
1:32:03and then people came to decisions i mean
1:32:06this current situation where people can
1:32:08just keep don't and not incriminate
1:32:10himself who is is there to protect them
1:32:13from all of the pressures that are there
1:32:18and all the floors in the legal system
1:32:19there so with a more idealized ecosystem
1:32:23not have people remaining silent they
1:32:26would tell their version of events and
1:32:27then this amazing judge would hear
1:32:29everyone's version of events told calmly
1:32:31and rationally and fairly and can weigh
1:32:33them and look at the evidence
1:32:37it feels like the people's right to
1:32:38remain silent which I am in favor of who
1:32:41is there because we haven't is there
1:32:44because we have a flawed system who and
1:32:47now York your sort of playing fantasy
1:32:49the ecosystems and removing all the
1:32:50flaws and I think if we have all these
1:32:52floors being removed this right to
1:32:55remain silent
1:32:56I don't see the need for anymore yes I I
1:33:00don't think I'm playing fantasy legal
1:33:01system
1:33:02my concern is that you have a legal
1:33:03system which is still like today you
1:33:07know it's it's it's made of people and
1:33:09you have trials and you have lawyers and
1:33:11have like all these conflicting
1:33:12interests but you just happen to have a
1:33:14piece of technology that allows you to
1:33:15read the thoughts and contents of a
1:33:17person's mind with this with the fluid
1:33:20system just one new piece of technology
1:33:21obviously i think people should still
1:33:23have the right to remain silent
1:33:24ok ok that's yeah okay so i will type
1:33:28sorry i was taking fantasy legal system
1:33:29to extremes that
1:33:30yeah i mean i agree with you in a
1:33:32perfect world we have no problems as I i
1:33:35agree with agree with that point but I'm
1:33:38just thinking like an actual an actual
1:33:41progression of today's technology like
1:33:42that they're there was reading around
1:33:43some people were saying like there's
1:33:44some super interesting stuff about just
1:33:46how the the resolution of brain scanning
1:33:48technology is increasing over time and
1:33:50that there are some extremely
1:33:52rudimentary examples of trying to pull
1:33:56things like color thoughts out of a
1:33:58person's brain like someone's thinking a
1:34:00color like you can identify what color
1:34:02their thinking by brain scan
1:34:03I just some just some really weird stuff
1:34:05like that it's like ok well I can see
1:34:07where this is going like it's not in
1:34:09principle impossible to do so it seems
1:34:12like I think it's inevitable will end up
1:34:14with something that can at least be some
1:34:16kind of brain scanner at some point and
1:34:18that's why i genuinely genuinely worried
1:34:22about this stuff but the but the related
1:34:24thing is this idea about like where does
1:34:26if if as you do you agree that that
1:34:32presume we don't have a perfect legal
1:34:34system there is still room and still
1:34:36reason for the protection against
1:34:38self-incrimination then I also think we
1:34:41are going to very rapidly get into a
1:34:43world where
1:34:44you have to start wondering what are the
1:34:47boundaries of the South right where do
1:34:50we draw that line about what counts as
1:34:53self-incrimination and I thought like it
1:34:56was just by coincidence but people but a
1:34:58bunch of people sent me that the Devi
1:35:00that video went up there was a news
1:35:02story about someone who had a computer
1:35:05chip implanted in their brain that
1:35:08allows them they were an amputee but
1:35:10that allowed them to control of an arm
1:35:13like just with their thoughts and people
1:35:17are pointing out like well that this is
1:35:19actually a super interesting case like
1:35:22could you have a warrant for the
1:35:25information recorded on that computer
1:35:27chip in that person's brain obviously
1:35:29right now it's not storing or recording
1:35:31a lot of information but it's an
1:35:33interesting legal question could you
1:35:36write a warrant to say please turn over
1:35:38the information on that computer chip in
1:35:40that person's brain and like my gut
1:35:43feeling is no like that that chip is
1:35:46part of the self of that person its it
1:35:49is not a separate entity it is not the
1:35:52equivalent of a piece of paper lying on
1:35:54someone's desk I I think that's
1:35:56different and I and I also feel like we
1:36:00use our phones and our digital devices
1:36:02so much now as off-board brains that I i
1:36:06really do think the amount that we use
1:36:09them inches them into this category of
1:36:11legal protection for the sound and I
1:36:13think it's important to set this
1:36:15precedent like for the future i really
1:36:19do think like this is going to be a
1:36:21legal question in some court in some
1:36:24country in the nearish future about
1:36:26trying to subpoena information for a
1:36:29piece of technology that is like in a
1:36:31person is going to happen is going to
1:36:34happen
1:36:35I mean I can't speak to the chip in
1:36:38Chipping the person that is the thing is
1:36:40if I was accused of a crime 15 years ago
1:36:43mhm police could have gone through a few
1:36:45letters and gone through a few photo
1:36:48albums with solid printed photos stuck
1:36:51in them and I wouldn't have found out a
1:36:53lot to help them and now they could go
1:36:55through my phone and find a million
1:36:57photos I've taken everyday wear and look
1:36:59at a million emails i've sent and and
1:37:02look at all my movements and and now a
1:37:03lot more so obviously what's in my phone
1:37:06is a lot more incriminating them what
1:37:09existed 10 years ago
1:37:11hmm the question is at what point did at
1:37:16what point between that scratchy old
1:37:18photo album and the letters and my shiny
1:37:20fine with all the information at what
1:37:21point was the threshold crossed where it
1:37:24became part of me define became part of
1:37:26me I five it's impossible to draw that
1:37:29line to say okay once you go over a
1:37:32thousand photos
1:37:33it's now maybe it's no longer a photo
1:37:36album it's me once you've got over 2000
1:37:40messages
1:37:40it's no longer documents it's now a part
1:37:44of me you know i don't know where at
1:37:46what point my phone became me this is
1:37:48the classic like where is the boundary
1:37:50problem that you run into a whole lot of
1:37:51stuff there is no good way to answer
1:37:54that question and I think you can make
1:37:55that question way more difficult by
1:37:58imagining a theoretical person who makes
1:38:02a physical copy of every single file
1:38:04that is on their phone right that they
1:38:06are just a tremendous paper hoarder
1:38:07living in a gigantic mansion filled with
1:38:10reams and reams of paper of their GPS
1:38:13coordinates for every second and all of
1:38:15the messages and all of the photos and
1:38:16all of the emails and like you know and
1:38:19how many pages of paper you would need
1:38:20to print out to be the equivalent of
1:38:22like 4k 60 frames per second video
1:38:25they've taken like you can imagine in
1:38:27theory a person living in this mansion
1:38:29with all of this stuff all of this crap
1:38:31and then but my feeling is like over
1:38:35those papers aren't them right that
1:38:36that's my initial feeling even though
1:38:38all of the information would
1:38:39theoretically be the same that somehow
1:38:41like oh but that seems different
1:38:43yeah does that make any sense no that
1:38:45doesn't make any sense at all but my
1:38:47emotional reaction is that it's somehow
1:38:50different when it is all contained on a
1:38:53device that is never far away that is
1:38:56with you all the time that that is
1:38:58different somehow
1:39:01but I'm also willing to accept that we
1:39:03may in the future state look back on
1:39:05this and say oh no the dividing line is
1:39:07when the devices started going in our
1:39:09bodies right that L and iphone obviously
1:39:12the iphone isn't really an extension of
1:39:14the self that which is ridiculous
1:39:15hyperbole but this right this chip in my
1:39:19head which is connected to the internet
1:39:21with which I can store memories and
1:39:22download new thoughts like that chip in
1:39:24my head obviously is part of myself in
1:39:27the way that a phone isn't like maybe
1:39:29that's a more natural more natural
1:39:31boundary that does seem like crossing
1:39:34the threshold into kind of sacred ground
1:39:36doesn't at once it's once it's
1:39:38physically once it's physically touching
1:39:41a at every second
1:39:44maybe that helps maybe that will help
1:39:45draw a line yeah but what if you take an
1:39:48iphone to your head
1:39:49checkmate