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H.I. #62: Cheer Pressure


00:00:00   I did go out onto the scaffolding [TS]

00:00:01   outside the house I fucked up the [TS]

00:00:04   courage i made it i went out i looked at [TS]

00:00:07   me I looked at my roof I took the nail [TS]

00:00:09   and gear flag and i flattered in the [TS]

00:00:12   wind of the house so inspired by grays [TS]

00:00:15   Batman efforts are basically i just [TS]

00:00:17   didn't want him to be the only Batman [TS]

00:00:19   right so I did it I did it [TS]

00:00:22   it's another very cool picture of you [TS]

00:00:23   Brady I feel like that one too is [TS]

00:00:25   calling out for some photoshopping just [TS]

00:00:27   like you are looking cool explosion [TS]

00:00:29   photograph you know you've got the the [TS]

00:00:31   wind blowing the mighty nail and gear [TS]

00:00:34   flagler kids they know that that's [TS]

00:00:35   calling out for a little modification I [TS]

00:00:37   think gray I'm I'm open to that are I'm [TS]

00:00:40   even willing to make some suggestions [TS]

00:00:42   there's a this event is about you don't [TS]

00:00:45   you don't tell the internet what to do [TS]

00:00:46   really [TS]

00:00:47   crap can I suggest perhaps Tenzing a [TS]

00:00:51   Topman Everest could be used as a is [TS]

00:00:53   inspiration hillary and tenzing together [TS]

00:00:55   on this on the summit's guy in the [TS]

00:00:57   southeast face there but you're right it [TS]

00:01:00   i mean i think the pictures magnificent [TS]

00:01:02   enough on a sign that it doesn't need [TS]

00:01:03   photoshopping but if yes it looks [TS]

00:01:06   absolutely magnificent you on the [TS]

00:01:09   scaffolding leading up to your house for [TS]

00:01:11   that for that for those who have asked i [TS]

00:01:14   went for the she me at the window option [TS]

00:01:16   rather than they going up the ladders [TS]

00:01:17   option [TS]

00:01:18   I just didn't trust those letters yeah [TS]

00:01:20   this is a popular request lot of people [TS]

00:01:22   dying to know which way through which [TS]

00:01:23   people about you know what [TS]

00:01:25   yes a lot of people of us did you do did [TS]

00:01:29   you do the ladder or did you go out the [TS]

00:01:31   window and so for those who ever that [TS]

00:01:34   you're asking i went for the wind eh i'm [TS]

00:01:39   very proud of you [TS]

00:01:40   we've got and we've got to tie up the [TS]

00:01:41   loose ends oh yeah is that it happens [TS]

00:01:44   that we do on the show we tie up the [TS]

00:01:45   loose ends yeah i like to think it's [TS]

00:01:47   like a whole complete thing i would like [TS]

00:01:49   to think when the last ever episode of [TS]

00:01:52   Hello internet is recorded [TS]

00:01:53   uh-huh it was somehow close some loop [TS]

00:01:56   that started like with the first episode [TS]

00:01:58   of people will go to you what I think [TS]

00:02:00   they planned the whole thing [TS]

00:02:02   yeah i think the whole thing was [TS]

00:02:04   scripted it was like it was like a [TS]

00:02:05   genius [TS]

00:02:07   Agatha Christie sort of thing where [TS]

00:02:09   every single sentence in every single [TS]

00:02:11   episode was [TS]

00:02:12   now working towards some moment at the [TS]

00:02:14   end i went to my regular gym this [TS]

00:02:18   morning and walking up to the front desk [TS]

00:02:21   i'm getting ready to go in and there's a [TS]

00:02:23   big pile of towels that you're supposed [TS]

00:02:26   to take from as you go into the gym but [TS]

00:02:30   the new thing this morning was a [TS]

00:02:32   gigantic sign and by gigantic I mean as [TS]

00:02:36   tall as me [TS]

00:02:37   they erected a huge sign which said [TS]

00:02:40   please think about the environment and [TS]

00:02:44   only take one towel into the gym and [TS]

00:02:49   this kind of thing infuriates me [TS]

00:02:53   it absolutely infuriates me and at my [TS]

00:02:56   gym it infuriates me many multiple times [TS]

00:02:59   over so i took for towels into the gym [TS]

00:03:02   today I did not take one towel into the [TS]

00:03:05   gym and 2 y.o skins and I club his seal [TS]

00:03:09   on the way I feel like I don't even need [TS]

00:03:12   to explain why this is infuriating let [TS]

00:03:14   me just run through why in the gym I [TS]

00:03:16   find this particularly frustrating [TS]

00:03:17   there's another sign later in the gym [TS]

00:03:20   which is in the actual equipment like [TS]

00:03:23   when you're when you're doing your [TS]

00:03:23   workout they have these little signs up [TS]

00:03:25   all over the place which say please be [TS]

00:03:27   considerate to the other patrons and [TS]

00:03:30   make sure to wipe down the equipment [TS]

00:03:32   after you've used it totally reasonable [TS]

00:03:35   right this is a totally reasonable [TS]

00:03:37   civilization like request [TS]

00:03:39   you've been a sweaty gross person on a [TS]

00:03:42   piece of equipment you're going to wipe [TS]

00:03:44   down your gross sweat off of it right [TS]

00:03:47   reasonable yes of course yeah okay [TS]

00:03:49   except that the question is wipe it down [TS]

00:03:51   with what [TS]

00:03:53   because in the gym there are no little [TS]

00:03:55   hand wipes for you to use [TS]

00:03:57   there's no equipment there at all so [TS]

00:04:00   unless you're going to wipe it down with [TS]

00:04:01   your hand [TS]

00:04:03   the only thing the only conceivable [TS]

00:04:05   thing that you could use to wipe down [TS]

00:04:07   the equipment is the one towel that they [TS]

00:04:11   want you to bring into the gym but [TS]

00:04:13   nobody's going to use the same towel to [TS]

00:04:16   clean the gym equipment as to clean [TS]

00:04:18   themselves later in the shower i think [TS]

00:04:21   that is just [TS]

00:04:22   vastly vastly on her fair enough yeah I [TS]

00:04:25   mean yeah yeah okay yeah right yeah it's [TS]

00:04:28   completely unreasonable because I'm glad [TS]

00:04:31   you're on board with me breathing i [TS]

00:04:31   really appreciate it I'm not sure that's [TS]

00:04:33   what they made by the one tower thing [TS]

00:04:35   that surely surely you can get a [TS]

00:04:36   different time when you go through a [TS]

00:04:37   shower afterwards [TS]

00:04:39   here's the thing here's the thing with [TS]

00:04:40   the setup of this with with the the [TS]

00:04:42   fascist like setup that this gym has has [TS]

00:04:44   has arranged right [TS]

00:04:46   the setup is such that you can only pick [TS]

00:04:48   up the towels before you go in with this [TS]

00:04:51   little membership card that they give [TS]

00:04:53   you [TS]

00:04:53   so the towels are not accessible when [TS]

00:04:55   you are inside the gym so they have this [TS]

00:04:57   big sign saying please take only one [TS]

00:04:59   towel and then you have to pass through [TS]

00:05:01   a barrier through which you cannot [TS]

00:05:02   return to get another towel later like [TS]

00:05:05   they clearly just want you to take one [TS]

00:05:06   so this is why i don't i don't just take [TS]

00:05:08   1 i'm going to take well we'll just [TS]

00:05:10   start out with I'm gonna take to write [TS]

00:05:12   because i'm going to need one to clean [TS]

00:05:13   down the equipment and a separate one to [TS]

00:05:15   clean down myself in the shower now i [TS]

00:05:17   also have it to take a third towel [TS]

00:05:19   because i think it's quite reasonable to [TS]

00:05:21   do the same thing in a sauna right like [TS]

00:05:23   you're you're laying down in a sauna as [TS]

00:05:25   a gigantic sweaty piece of meat you are [TS]

00:05:28   sweating everywhere it's nicer for [TS]

00:05:30   everybody again this is how civilization [TS]

00:05:32   holds together if you put down a towel [TS]

00:05:34   in the sauna and you sweat out your [TS]

00:05:37   gross bodily fluids onto the towel [TS]

00:05:39   instead of onto the wood so this is why [TS]

00:05:42   I would normally take three towels into [TS]

00:05:44   the gym one for the sign up one for [TS]

00:05:46   cleaning the equipment and one for [TS]

00:05:47   cleaning me I think this is totally [TS]

00:05:50   reasonable I think three is too many [TS]

00:05:51   great i think you could get away with to [TS]

00:05:53   i could get away with 2 i'm not arguing [TS]

00:05:56   that I could get away with too if I was [TS]

00:05:58   willing to introduce and unacceptable [TS]

00:06:00   level of gross into my life like oh I've [TS]

00:06:03   used this towel to clean down all of the [TS]

00:06:05   equipment and i'm also going to use it [TS]

00:06:07   to clean down the sauna like now that's [TS]

00:06:09   not it's not going to happen because the [TS]

00:06:11   the cleaning down in the gym towel that [TS]

00:06:12   one never really touches my skin right [TS]

00:06:14   because I'm wearing gym clothes when I'm [TS]

00:06:16   in the gym was in the sauna that towel [TS]

00:06:18   is also touching my skin so I don't want [TS]

00:06:20   to use the same towel i think that's [TS]

00:06:21   quite reasonable [TS]

00:06:22   I've never been to a gym where they [TS]

00:06:23   haven't got that rolls of blue roll [TS]

00:06:25   everywhere that blue paper that you [TS]

00:06:27   could just use to wipe down the [TS]

00:06:28   equipment or your forward and things [TS]

00:06:29   like that they not have paper towel [TS]

00:06:31   I know I know this one does not mean [TS]

00:06:34   that in the main area they have drinking [TS]

00:06:36   fountains and that's it and I see people [TS]

00:06:38   using their one sad towel to clean the [TS]

00:06:41   equipment or to do that thing like you [TS]

00:06:43   reserve a piece of equipment by draping [TS]

00:06:44   the towel across that they're using that [TS]

00:06:46   same towel that they then take back into [TS]

00:06:48   the showers and like they're all being [TS]

00:06:50   all follow the sign right but i'm not [TS]

00:06:51   going to follow the sign so normally i [TS]

00:06:54   would take three towels but today [TS]

00:06:56   because this new sign was there about [TS]

00:06:58   like think of the environment as well I [TS]

00:07:01   took for towels because one of them was [TS]

00:07:02   just out of pure inventions and passive [TS]

00:07:04   aggressiveness I thought if you're going [TS]

00:07:05   to tell me you're going to tell me how [TS]

00:07:07   many towels I'm supposed to take because [TS]

00:07:09   of mother earth like no no I'm gonna [TS]

00:07:11   take more towels because i don't think [TS]

00:07:13   that sign is there because this gym [TS]

00:07:15   company suddenly really cares about [TS]

00:07:18   mother earth now I think they're just [TS]

00:07:19   trying to come up with a better way to [TS]

00:07:21   make people use fewer towels and their [TS]

00:07:24   normal sign that you just said oh please [TS]

00:07:26   take one towel they didn't think was [TS]

00:07:27   effective enough so they've decided to [TS]

00:07:29   introduce this kind of environmental [TS]

00:07:32   nagging asst into the system to try to [TS]

00:07:35   be more effective about reducing towel [TS]

00:07:37   usage and I feel like screw you [TS]

00:07:39   if you're going to do that if you're [TS]

00:07:40   going to be passive-aggressive towards [TS]

00:07:41   me in that way i'm going to be [TS]

00:07:42   passive-aggressive towards you i'm [TS]

00:07:44   taking an extra towel today it's so [TS]

00:07:45   clear to me that the company's primary [TS]

00:07:47   concern is the amount of money that they [TS]

00:07:50   are spending on towel laundry right it [TS]

00:07:52   is it has nothing to do with the actual [TS]

00:07:56   environment itself like that's clearly [TS]

00:07:58   what's going on and that's the thing [TS]

00:08:00   that really bothers me about these kind [TS]

00:08:02   of situations that you see like you know [TS]

00:08:03   like you got to California and you're in [TS]

00:08:05   a hotel somewhere and they have little [TS]

00:08:06   sign they're like oh there's a drought [TS]

00:08:07   in California please don't take a very [TS]

00:08:09   long shower please don't wash your hands [TS]

00:08:10   super thoroughly and like now I'm not [TS]

00:08:12   gonna listen to you little sign like I [TS]

00:08:13   don't think the environment is really [TS]

00:08:15   your primary concern here like I think [TS]

00:08:17   your primary concern is the water bill [TS]

00:08:18   at your hotel [TS]

00:08:19   I only ever see these kind of [TS]

00:08:21   environmental signs in places where [TS]

00:08:23   people are using a company's resource [TS]

00:08:27   that is extraordinarily difficult for [TS]

00:08:29   the company to police its usage like and [TS]

00:08:31   then suddenly they're very concerned [TS]

00:08:34   about the environment and wanted you to [TS]

00:08:35   use as little of the resources possible [TS]

00:08:37   right now please only take one napkin [TS]

00:08:39   think about dear precious mother like [TS]

00:08:40   now I don't think that's the reason here [TS]

00:08:42   and i'm going to take extra napkins just [TS]

00:08:44   because you told me not to but it is [TS]

00:08:45   like a sort of a 10 gentle benefit that [TS]

00:08:48   the earth does [TS]

00:08:49   come out on top if we do use less water [TS]

00:08:51   and waterless tails so it's almost like [TS]

00:08:54   you're cutting off the earth nose to [TS]

00:08:56   spite the companies face [TS]

00:08:57   I mean I mean you say that you say that [TS]

00:09:00   right but how how much water can [TS]

00:09:03   possibly you abused by the global [TS]

00:09:06   consumption of cleaning towels i think i [TS]

00:09:09   don't i don't think very much [TS]

00:09:10   it's it but I've put a lot i bet you [TS]

00:09:13   it's a lot sometimes sometimes you see [TS]

00:09:15   statistics on those little nagging [TS]

00:09:18   science where they say they took give [TS]

00:09:20   you all these layers of water and things [TS]

00:09:22   like that and see right there right [TS]

00:09:23   there with you doing you're falling for [TS]

00:09:24   their trap right because look at the way [TS]

00:09:26   they always express those things they [TS]

00:09:28   will always give you statistics in just [TS]

00:09:30   huge numbers right they play the huge [TS]

00:09:32   number game that did you know that [TS]

00:09:35   people washing their hands in California [TS]

00:09:36   they use a bajillion leaders of water [TS]

00:09:39   every minute like oh my god a bajillion [TS]

00:09:41   leaders of water that sounds like so [TS]

00:09:43   much the only relevant question in any [TS]

00:09:45   of these scenarios i get if you're [TS]

00:09:46   thinking about I really care about [TS]

00:09:48   mother earth and I really care about not [TS]

00:09:50   using her resources [TS]

00:09:51   the thing is not the absolute amount of [TS]

00:09:53   resources in any particular situation [TS]

00:09:55   the question is what percent of the pie [TS]

00:09:58   chart of total resource use is this [TS]

00:10:01   water use for example personal water use [TS]

00:10:04   like people using water for drinking and [TS]

00:10:06   for showering and for laundering howls [TS]

00:10:08   presumably this is like zero percent of [TS]

00:10:11   the water use and and the huge huge [TS]

00:10:14   amount of water use is usually ghost [TS]

00:10:16   things like agriculture or some [TS]

00:10:19   industrial processes right like if you [TS]

00:10:21   care about the environment that is the [TS]

00:10:23   thing to focus on is like changing how [TS]

00:10:25   the vast majority of water is being used [TS]

00:10:29   it's crazy making to focus on like the [TS]

00:10:33   little thing that you can see like i [TS]

00:10:34   think that's that's naturally where [TS]

00:10:36   people's brains go with this kind of [TS]

00:10:37   stuff they focus on like oh there's this [TS]

00:10:39   little thing that I can see in front of [TS]

00:10:40   me and I'm going to spend some time on [TS]

00:10:42   changing its like it has no impact [TS]

00:10:44   whatsoever on the global scheme charity [TS]

00:10:46   of a thousand miles starts with one step [TS]

00:10:48   gray but if you're just walking a [TS]

00:10:50   thousand random steps in random [TS]

00:10:52   directions you're making no progress on [TS]

00:10:54   anything [TS]

00:10:54   no progress whatsoever that's that's all [TS]

00:10:56   I'm saying [TS]

00:10:57   all right look this seems like a good [TS]

00:11:01   time to promote one of my topics up the [TS]

00:11:04   running order then because it sort of [TS]

00:11:05   ties in [TS]

00:11:06   go ahead it's a bit of follow-up it [TS]

00:11:09   involves the invention of a new term [TS]

00:11:11   which is a favorite pastime of mine we [TS]

00:11:13   have another predetermined ue we do I [TS]

00:11:16   want to talk about something that i'm [TS]

00:11:18   going to call cheer pressure sheer [TS]

00:11:20   pressure [TS]

00:11:21   yeah so if i take you back to last [TS]

00:11:24   episode I was talking about this this [TS]

00:11:27   cricket match and how this guy had [TS]

00:11:29   marked up at the end of a cricket match [TS]

00:11:30   and it and then lot of people have [TS]

00:11:32   criticized him online [TS]

00:11:34   mm and then all these other people kind [TS]

00:11:35   of rushed to his defense and said you [TS]

00:11:37   shouldn't pick on Amy tried hard he put [TS]

00:11:39   his hand up at the end of the game and [TS]

00:11:40   you know had the courage to try and if [TS]

00:11:43   he files you shouldn't you shouldn't [TS]

00:11:45   pick on him and I didn't completely [TS]

00:11:47   agree with that but then it had echoes [TS]

00:11:51   later in the same show when I made a few [TS]

00:11:54   glib comments about the space X program [TS]

00:11:58   Elon Musk's private rocket company who [TS]

00:12:01   that has been attempting to land Rockets [TS]

00:12:05   on platforms in the sea to sort of make [TS]

00:12:08   them reusable so they sort of self land [TS]

00:12:10   which is quite a quite an impressive [TS]

00:12:11   thing to do we make a rocket real and [TS]

00:12:14   after use standing upright and had been [TS]

00:12:16   a few spectacular crashes and they blew [TS]

00:12:18   up and just my luck straight after we [TS]

00:12:20   recorded there was a very successful [TS]

00:12:22   landing at me and you have anyway that's [TS]

00:12:25   that's because that's what it was it was [TS]

00:12:26   like the day after we recorded he had a [TS]

00:12:28   huge success [TS]

00:12:30   yeah and I waited eight weeks to [TS]

00:12:31   actually release the exit making you [TS]

00:12:33   look like a total idiot [TS]

00:12:34   yeah anyway that's beside the point that [TS]

00:12:36   there were a series of quite spectacular [TS]

00:12:39   crashes and I made some some jokes about [TS]

00:12:42   it and I don't want to say that lots of [TS]

00:12:45   people got in touch and lots of people [TS]

00:12:46   complained because it's very easy to [TS]

00:12:48   think when you see the 5 or 6 comments [TS]

00:12:50   on reddit that that's lots of people [TS]

00:12:52   when of course it's not [TS]

00:12:53   whenever how many hundreds of thousands [TS]

00:12:55   of people listen whatever but it does it [TS]

00:12:58   does seem like loud in your head when [TS]

00:13:00   you read the comments and it's easy to [TS]

00:13:02   have them stick in your craw right where [TS]

00:13:04   you feel like you need to address those [TS]

00:13:05   things [TS]

00:13:06   yeah and the main sentiment of them i [TS]

00:13:09   haven't got any of them in from [TS]

00:13:10   to me at the moment but i think the main [TS]

00:13:11   sentiment of them were I I should know [TS]

00:13:16   better as an enthusiast about space and [TS]

00:13:19   the Apollo program I shouldn't be [TS]

00:13:20   speaking down about SpaceX basically [TS]

00:13:24   actually supporting I should be [TS]

00:13:26   supporting them and there was also [TS]

00:13:28   comments which is true along the lines [TS]

00:13:29   of that space exploration is really hard [TS]

00:13:32   and lots of things go wrong [TS]

00:13:33   I'm sure you were unaware of that here [TS]

00:13:35   with us face that expression is [TS]

00:13:37   difficult Brady but this but this this [TS]

00:13:39   new thing that's happening it ends [TS]

00:13:41   something also have complained about on [TS]

00:13:43   the show before and there is these kind [TS]

00:13:46   of and I related to science more than [TS]

00:13:48   anything because I guess I'm a society [TS]

00:13:49   person and I find lots of society people [TS]

00:13:50   on Twitter and that is this science [TS]

00:13:53   cheerleading m and this this over [TS]

00:13:56   enthusiasm and over positivity about [TS]

00:13:59   anything science-related and this and [TS]

00:14:02   now it's going the other way into what I [TS]

00:14:04   call this cheer pressure of this kind of [TS]

00:14:06   turning and belittling people if they [TS]

00:14:09   dare criticize or speak against science [TS]

00:14:12   or exploration or whatever their [TS]

00:14:13   whatever the chosen topic is let how do [TS]

00:14:16   you speak badly about SpaceX you're [TS]

00:14:18   supposed to be one of us Brady you're [TS]

00:14:20   supposed to be a space person you're [TS]

00:14:21   supposed to be a science person you're [TS]

00:14:23   not allowed to criticize SpaceX you're [TS]

00:14:25   not allowed to make jokes about his [TS]

00:14:26   rockets falling over like drunk people [TS]

00:14:28   as they try to land on the platform [TS]

00:14:30   right and and my shoot is yes I have [TS]

00:14:33   it's not you're pressuring me well I'll [TS]

00:14:35   make jokes about it doesn't mean i don't [TS]

00:14:38   think it's also it doesn't doesn't mean [TS]

00:14:39   I don't like space exploration but like [TS]

00:14:42   you're allowed to criticize things [TS]

00:14:43   you're there to make jokes and like [TS]

00:14:46   chili everyone and like this this is [TS]

00:14:48   sort of now rabbit turning on people if [TS]

00:14:50   they dare [TS]

00:14:51   it's almost it's like you know that code [TS]

00:14:53   button on my hootsie lon mask me he's [TS]

00:14:56   the Science Guy himself he's not the one [TS]

00:14:58   huh but we have to make jokes at his [TS]

00:15:01   expense and pick on him you know [TS]

00:15:02   everyone picks on a lot mask it's like a [TS]

00:15:05   it's like a fun sport isn't up I would [TS]

00:15:07   never say anything bad about you like [TS]

00:15:09   masquerading know you would you would [TS]

00:15:10   say anything bad about him but but you [TS]

00:15:13   also wouldn't turn on someone who did [TS]

00:15:14   you have course not of course that TMI [TS]

00:15:16   am i imagining this [TS]

00:15:18   this is cheer pressure think I'm already [TS]

00:15:20   trying to formulate in my mind [TS]

00:15:23   like a definition for what you mean by [TS]

00:15:25   this but I think that I think you're [TS]

00:15:27   onto something here ready I'm [TS]

00:15:29   immediately latching on to cheer [TS]

00:15:31   pressure sounds right [TS]

00:15:36   yeah that it's like a reverse bullying [TS]

00:15:38   from people who are into a thing I i [TS]

00:15:41   know i'm i'm having a hard time [TS]

00:15:43   articulating what it is but just just [TS]

00:15:45   like hot stoppers something about this [TS]

00:15:48   feels innately right i mean it's [TS]

00:15:51   basically pressuring people with similar [TS]

00:15:53   interests to all be positive about the [TS]

00:15:55   same thing [TS]

00:15:56   hmm we must all cheer together we must [TS]

00:15:59   all be cheerleaders for SpaceX because [TS]

00:16:01   if one of us doesn't tell the line i can [TS]

00:16:04   be interested in space exploration and [TS]

00:16:05   still make jokes and criticize and [TS]

00:16:08   things like this there's nothing wrong [TS]

00:16:10   with that it's quite a scientific thing [TS]

00:16:12   to do isn't it [TS]

00:16:12   it's also just funny i think that's a [TS]

00:16:14   good working definition and i like that [TS]

00:16:16   and i think that there is something [TS]

00:16:17   something along those lines [TS]

00:16:19   what you're feeling here is one of the [TS]

00:16:23   various and multitude side effects of [TS]

00:16:28   humans and their group thinking I think [TS]

00:16:32   there is just something innately in [TS]

00:16:34   humans that is desirous of being part of [TS]

00:16:39   a group like when someone listens to the [TS]

00:16:43   podcast right and they hear you and they [TS]

00:16:45   hear you talk about the space program [TS]

00:16:46   and I can you love all of this stuff and [TS]

00:16:48   if they're a person who's super into [TS]

00:16:50   space they are now mentally categorizing [TS]

00:16:53   you as like oh this person is in the [TS]

00:16:54   exact same group is made and so then [TS]

00:16:57   when there's any kind of divergence from [TS]

00:16:59   that the person this kind of cheer [TS]

00:17:03   pressure is is coming out right where [TS]

00:17:05   the person wants to bring you back into [TS]

00:17:08   line with like you are part of my group [TS]

00:17:10   like I listen to the podcast I like you [TS]

00:17:13   I like space hearing you say something I [TS]

00:17:15   don't like about space is suddenly [TS]

00:17:17   causing a problem in my brain because i [TS]

00:17:18   can't neatly put you into the group of [TS]

00:17:21   people who are super into space all the [TS]

00:17:23   time 100-percent just like I am I think [TS]

00:17:25   that's what's occurring it's because the [TS]

00:17:26   people like you Brady they want you in [TS]

00:17:29   the group that that's what that's what's [TS]

00:17:31   occurring here that that's why I think [TS]

00:17:33   like relating this to peer pressure is [TS]

00:17:35   the right [TS]

00:17:36   metaphor to make where peer pressure is [TS]

00:17:38   about group conformity and this cheer [TS]

00:17:41   pressure is a similar thing it but it's [TS]

00:17:43   it's like the next level up of not just [TS]

00:17:45   conformity but visible and obvious [TS]

00:17:50   enthusiasm for all of the things that [TS]

00:17:52   the group has decided are good to be [TS]

00:17:54   visibly and obviously enthusiastic about [TS]

00:17:57   em I can get behind this one and I'm [TS]

00:18:01   well aware and you know although when [TS]

00:18:03   our testing for the early space program [TS]

00:18:04   before Mara carry their rockets were [TS]

00:18:06   blowing up all the time [TS]

00:18:07   there's a really famous montage in the [TS]

00:18:09   film the right stuff that just shows all [TS]

00:18:10   these Rockets flying up one after the [TS]

00:18:12   other it's a classic it's a classic [TS]

00:18:14   moment in the film and like we're just [TS]

00:18:16   going through that again and do I'm sure [TS]

00:18:18   I'm sure that we're getting flack at the [TS]

00:18:20   time to when that when the press where [TS]

00:18:21   they're filming and the Rockets were [TS]

00:18:23   blowing up and you just gotta get [TS]

00:18:25   through that it's just part of the drama [TS]

00:18:27   of it all you know and we don't all have [TS]

00:18:29   to just if everyone just choose a [TS]

00:18:31   hundred percent and pat him on the back [TS]

00:18:33   every time one of these Rockets blows up [TS]

00:18:34   and says don't worry you'll get it next [TS]

00:18:36   time and no one says gosh these people [TS]

00:18:38   know what they're doing nothing ever [TS]

00:18:39   gets achieved there's no pressure and [TS]

00:18:42   criticism and that really pushes people [TS]

00:18:45   that that scrutiny and that fear of [TS]

00:18:47   failure if people are worried about [TS]

00:18:49   things going wrong and I think they work [TS]

00:18:51   as hard [TS]

00:18:51   keeps them on their toes in a free [TS]

00:18:53   society should have brought this out to [TS]

00:18:55   the wide as possible that like in a free [TS]

00:18:57   society [TS]

00:18:58   you should be able to criticize whatever [TS]

00:19:01   you want that doesn't exist and even if [TS]

00:19:03   you like tremendous pier or cheer [TS]

00:19:06   pressure like you you feel like you're [TS]

00:19:07   not allowed to say things like I don't [TS]

00:19:08   think that's good for for freezes I [TS]

00:19:10   think even if you're into space [TS]

00:19:11   you should totally be able to criticize [TS]

00:19:12   SpaceX if you want to or just make jokes [TS]

00:19:14   at their expense like yeah they're doing [TS]

00:19:17   a great thing but you can laugh at it [TS]

00:19:18   like it's totally fine you know they're [TS]

00:19:20   just they're just words floating in the [TS]

00:19:22   air they're just like thoughts and [TS]

00:19:23   people had you're not going out there [TS]

00:19:24   like sabotaging the Rockets when you [TS]

00:19:26   criticize them for falling over the [TS]

00:19:28   first few attempts this episode of Hello [TS]

00:19:31   internet is brought to you by freshbooks [TS]

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00:20:21   am definitely one of those clients who [TS]

00:20:24   if I receive an invoice that is from [TS]

00:20:26   freshbooks I will pay it faster just [TS]

00:20:28   because it's easier to do now if you [TS]

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00:21:25   a better way to handle your invoices [TS]

00:21:28   make things simpler get paid faster show [TS]

00:21:31   freshbooks a little bit of the hello [TS]

00:21:33   Internet love by going to freshbooks com [TS]

00:21:35   /hello and telling them that hello [TS]

00:21:38   Internet is how you heard about them [TS]

00:21:39   thanks to freshbooks for supporting the [TS]

00:21:42   show [TS]

00:21:45   i love i love this is a recurring theme [TS]

00:21:47   of you Brady you put things in the show [TS]

00:21:49   notes and then when it comes around to [TS]

00:21:51   the episode you think I put this thing [TS]

00:21:53   in here [TS]

00:21:54   why did I put this thing in here I [TS]

00:21:55   remember it made me really angry at the [TS]

00:21:57   time but now i can't remember what yeah [TS]

00:21:59   and I I think the thing is that it and [TS]

00:22:01   if you do i guess that just wasn't [TS]

00:22:03   massively useful can you recap it for me [TS]

00:22:08   can I tell you why you put this article [TS]

00:22:10   in there yeah i think this was just this [TS]

00:22:12   was just one of a series of articles [TS]

00:22:14   because it because the apple watch has [TS]

00:22:16   been around for a year [TS]

00:22:17   people are doing retrospectives on it [TS]

00:22:19   okay yeah yeah that's why there's been [TS]

00:22:21   an apple watch talk in the air is it's [TS]

00:22:23   been a long enough time [TS]

00:22:25   interestingly Apple hasn't released [TS]

00:22:26   another one which makes people sort of [TS]

00:22:28   question things quite a long time for [TS]

00:22:30   them to have a generation one product [TS]

00:22:31   this is one of the many articles kind of [TS]

00:22:33   speculating about how many watches they [TS]

00:22:37   could possibly have sold and coming up [TS]

00:22:39   with numbers that don't necessarily look [TS]

00:22:40   great as always with this kind of stuff [TS]

00:22:43   it's shockingly hard to speculate about [TS]

00:22:46   some apple stuff because they play their [TS]

00:22:48   cards close to the chest as much as they [TS]

00:22:50   can then the apple watch is one of these [TS]

00:22:52   things they group into like an other [TS]

00:22:53   sales category and like who knows what's [TS]

00:22:56   in that other sales category [TS]

00:22:57   yeah but either way the other sales [TS]

00:22:59   category didn't shoot up a tremendous [TS]

00:23:01   amounts you can safely assume like they [TS]

00:23:03   didn't sell a bazillion watches like [TS]

00:23:05   that's part of what this is but I see [TS]

00:23:08   this sentiment a bunch of times and this [TS]

00:23:11   always drives me crazy with not just the [TS]

00:23:13   apple watch but with any technology [TS]

00:23:15   products out there in the world that [TS]

00:23:17   people always phrase it in terms of need [TS]

00:23:20   whether say like do you need X and [TS]

00:23:23   whenever anyone is asking that question [TS]

00:23:25   the answer is almost always no no you [TS]

00:23:27   don't need anything [TS]

00:23:29   even I would argue like a smartphone do [TS]

00:23:31   you need a smartphone now like it [TS]

00:23:34   doesn't really fall under the category [TS]

00:23:35   of need [TS]

00:23:37   it's a thing that's incredibly useful i [TS]

00:23:39   just always think that that framing is [TS]

00:23:40   so wrong yeah but I think you're [TS]

00:23:42   thinking of need in the wrong way I [TS]

00:23:43   think you use the word yourself there [TS]

00:23:45   usefully is their usefulness and I think [TS]

00:23:47   that's what they mean by nate they don't [TS]

00:23:49   mean like food or oxygen or water and I [TS]

00:23:52   think they mean it as in can you get use [TS]

00:23:54   out of it [TS]

00:23:55   and even though I know you don't get us [TS]

00:23:58   out of a diamond necklace i guess but [TS]

00:23:59   that's not really how the airport sells [TS]

00:24:01   itself is just purely a piece of [TS]

00:24:03   ornament it does sell herself as a [TS]

00:24:05   useful item so I think it's a fair [TS]

00:24:07   question to ask about it it's just a [TS]

00:24:08   different type of need I think yeah I [TS]

00:24:11   mean I guess I the title i would want [TS]

00:24:13   would be ungainly long to people find [TS]

00:24:15   economic utility in the Apple watch like [TS]

00:24:17   that's the title at once i guess i can [TS]

00:24:19   see why they might want to use the word [TS]

00:24:20   need but i always feel like that is just [TS]

00:24:22   too strong if they want to four letter [TS]

00:24:24   word I i think they could say want like [TS]

00:24:26   do people want an apple watch like I [TS]

00:24:29   think that conveys a much better idea [TS]

00:24:31   and like you said there it's like [TS]

00:24:33   jewelry [TS]

00:24:34   nobody in the world needs jewelry but do [TS]

00:24:36   people want jewelry and its various [TS]

00:24:38   forms [TS]

00:24:38   yes that is clearly a demand that people [TS]

00:24:41   have even though there's just no utility [TS]

00:24:43   to it whatsoever but it doesn't matter [TS]

00:24:45   because monkeys like shiny things right [TS]

00:24:47   and so that they want to buy them want [TS]

00:24:49   is slightly the wrong word to for me [TS]

00:24:51   they're great because you gave me one [TS]

00:24:53   for Christmas [TS]

00:24:54   I'd say thank you and I maybe where [TS]

00:24:56   occasionally and look at it and so uh I [TS]

00:24:59   want one I want to look at it and play [TS]

00:25:01   with it but nowhere near enough to pay [TS]

00:25:03   for one so I don't think what is the [TS]

00:25:06   right word either but i don't know [TS]

00:25:07   whether right where it is [TS]

00:25:09   we need a word between need and want [TS]

00:25:12   yeah you're the you're the word man [TS]

00:25:14   Brady yeah I'm uh I'm got that it cannot [TS]

00:25:19   be weighed that was precisely like do [TS]

00:25:22   people we'd an Apple watch [TS]

00:25:23   ok I I don't see any problem with using [TS]

00:25:29   a word like that you know within context [TS]

00:25:32   i'm sure it'd be very clear do people [TS]

00:25:33   we'd an Apple watch [TS]

00:25:34   I don't think so ok I it's almost like [TS]

00:25:38   it does therefore which have a role in [TS]

00:25:39   in the world is what is coming down to [TS]

00:25:41   is there a role for it in people's life [TS]

00:25:45   that is the question [TS]

00:25:47   and as we discussed last time like I'm i [TS]

00:25:50   am surprised by the lack of Apple [TS]

00:25:52   watches that I see in the real world [TS]

00:25:54   it provides a great deal of utility for [TS]

00:25:56   me and I totally love it but i would [TS]

00:26:00   just like I would die to know like what [TS]

00:26:02   does Apple internally think about their [TS]

00:26:04   own app [TS]

00:26:05   watch I just don't know but speaking of [TS]

00:26:07   things that I weed because of You Brady [TS]

00:26:10   i actually went out and bought an iphone [TS]

00:26:17   SE e 0 and I am entirely blaming this on [TS]

00:26:21   you because we have these conversations [TS]

00:26:23   sometimes in like you plant a little [TS]

00:26:25   thought in my head there's little this [TS]

00:26:28   little irritating grain of sand in my [TS]

00:26:30   mind that I don't want their but that [TS]

00:26:32   you come along and you just drop into my [TS]

00:26:34   brain and you planted one of these [TS]

00:26:37   irritating grains of sand in my mind [TS]

00:26:39   about the iphone SE when we discussed [TS]

00:26:42   last time I know is I heard the moment [TS]

00:26:45   happened I could I could I could yeah as [TS]

00:26:48   I was listening to the podcast i could [TS]

00:26:50   hear you like something flip in your [TS]

00:26:52   voice [TS]

00:26:55   yeah should be perfect sounds just like [TS]

00:27:00   me [TS]

00:27:01   I so there's these two conflicting [TS]

00:27:03   aspects of my personality regarding the [TS]

00:27:05   iphone SE the the primary one which I [TS]

00:27:08   was thinking is I know that I'm a person [TS]

00:27:11   who likes to have up-to-date technology [TS]

00:27:13   that's just part of my personality [TS]

00:27:15   that's the way that I am I know and [TS]

00:27:17   accept that right and so I thought well [TS]

00:27:19   getting on the iphone SE track this is [TS]

00:27:21   no good because apples probably not [TS]

00:27:23   going to update this for forever but you [TS]

00:27:25   you planted this idea of like just try [TS]

00:27:28   it [TS]

00:27:28   heap it's like it like a fun romantic [TS]

00:27:30   fling with this other device like that [TS]

00:27:33   just lodged into my brain in this way [TS]

00:27:35   that I could not possibly remove and so [TS]

00:27:37   I found myself going to the apple store [TS]

00:27:39   like picking up an iphone SE and looking [TS]

00:27:41   at it like turning it over in my hand [TS]

00:27:44   and turning it over in my mind like I [TS]

00:27:46   couldn't let it go and so I eventually [TS]

00:27:49   caved and I did decide to to get one and [TS]

00:27:53   so i have been using the iphone SE for [TS]

00:27:55   the past couple of days [TS]

00:27:57   Wow and man I just like I forgot how [TS]

00:28:05   perfect of a physical size this phone is [TS]

00:28:09   well just [TS]

00:28:11   it's it is like sweet sweet relief after [TS]

00:28:16   this long nightmare of the iphone 6 and [TS]

00:28:20   6s generation you know how pleasurable [TS]

00:28:22   it is to hold a phone and to not be [TS]

00:28:26   thinking I hope this doesn't slide out [TS]

00:28:28   of my hand I can hardly grip that round [TS]

00:28:30   edge like it's it's it's slippery so you [TS]

00:28:32   don't drop it right kind like the [TS]

00:28:34   thought that is in your head every [TS]

00:28:35   single time you pick up one of the [TS]

00:28:36   iphone s models or like when i first got [TS]

00:28:38   the original ass like oh this phone [TS]

00:28:40   it's a little too big and a little too [TS]

00:28:42   small at the same time like it's just [TS]

00:28:44   these frustrating things like to pick up [TS]

00:28:45   a phone and to have it one fit entirely [TS]

00:28:49   within my hand to have a single thumb be [TS]

00:28:53   able to reach every single point on the [TS]

00:28:55   screen and 3 hold it securely with [TS]

00:28:58   straight edges on the phone it is just [TS]

00:29:02   amazing [TS]

00:29:04   it's absolutely amazing i am so happy to [TS]

00:29:07   be using this size phone [TS]

00:29:09   well what about things like the smaller [TS]

00:29:12   screen for you know watching video and [TS]

00:29:14   heard you got used to the biggest grain [TS]

00:29:16   and what about memory and battery life [TS]

00:29:18   and the other potential drawbacks [TS]

00:29:20   yeah there are potentially a bunch of [TS]

00:29:21   drawbacks and when you do start using it [TS]

00:29:24   at first like some of the icons do seem [TS]

00:29:26   ridiculously small and all of the icons [TS]

00:29:29   bunch together on the screen seem like [TS]

00:29:30   point is not a lot of space between [TS]

00:29:32   these iconic everything feels really [TS]

00:29:33   crowded but you get used to it so fast i [TS]

00:29:36   was watching a YouTube video on earlier [TS]

00:29:39   that get like you were discussing for [TS]

00:29:40   your own words like someone sent me a [TS]

00:29:42   thing to review and so I was taking a [TS]

00:29:43   look at it on the smaller phone on the [TS]

00:29:44   go and it didn't even occur to me like [TS]

00:29:46   oh man I just wish the screen was bigger [TS]

00:29:48   like it was totally fine for purpose [TS]

00:29:49   like to be able to do some basic work on [TS]

00:29:53   it like it was absolutely fine [TS]

00:29:55   so the smaller screen is is not an issue [TS]

00:29:58   this is really interesting i'm convinced [TS]

00:30:00   my biggest fans giving the IRS I oh yeah [TS]

00:30:03   why do you say that I just feel like my [TS]

00:30:04   the back of my right hand hurts a lot [TS]

00:30:07   from when i use a loan from all that [TS]

00:30:09   reaching and shimmying and so I think [TS]

00:30:12   I'm gonna go smoke oh yeah and gripping [TS]

00:30:15   it tightly in your hand to make sure [TS]

00:30:16   that it doesn't fall right like i [TS]

00:30:17   gotta-i gotta put a death grip on this [TS]

00:30:19   like I'm choking a chicken to death [TS]

00:30:21   right like you gotta hold on to that [TS]

00:30:22   phone you know what the message here is [TS]

00:30:24   great [TS]

00:30:24   what's the message brandi was right [TS]

00:30:27   oh yeah is that what it is yeah I do i [TS]

00:30:33   do have to say like you you planting [TS]

00:30:35   that seed in my head as irritating as I [TS]

00:30:39   found it for i mean i don't know like [TS]

00:30:41   two weeks that just kept rolling around [TS]

00:30:43   in my brain and I couldn't let it go and [TS]

00:30:45   I was I was genuinely annoyed with you [TS]

00:30:47   in this way because it was like yeah [TS]

00:30:49   like this is not rational but [TS]

00:30:50   nonetheless like I can't let go of this [TS]

00:30:52   thought I am just so happy I'm so happy [TS]

00:30:54   now and i love this phone design [TS]

00:30:57   probably the biggest challenge going [TS]

00:30:59   back to it i still like i've been using [TS]

00:31:01   it for a few days i still have to do [TS]

00:31:02   sometimes is that again i use my iphone [TS]

00:31:05   in my left hand and I have to kind of [TS]

00:31:06   really remember how to type with a [TS]

00:31:08   single hand and I often catch my right [TS]

00:31:12   hand reaching up to help and to type on [TS]

00:31:14   the phone and have to go like no right [TS]

00:31:16   hand now you're not actually helpful [TS]

00:31:17   here like left hand can handle this [TS]

00:31:19   this thing all by itself like it can do [TS]

00:31:21   all of the typing and so I'm like I'm [TS]

00:31:22   trying to train my right hand to not [TS]

00:31:24   come up but i want to try to type with [TS]

00:31:26   two thumbs even though that's that's [TS]

00:31:28   totally impossible but I'm getting used [TS]

00:31:30   to it very quickly that's probably been [TS]

00:31:31   the biggest adjustments but alright let [TS]

00:31:34   me let you out of the wilderness but you [TS]

00:31:37   are still in the wilderness bring I know [TS]

00:31:38   I know and I'm cabin grreat I'm yeah I'm [TS]

00:31:42   gonna change [TS]

00:31:43   yeah I'm not going I'm not gonna have a [TS]

00:31:45   look in the storm this weekend or [TS]

00:31:47   something [TS]

00:31:48   looking at it in the store I was [TS]

00:31:49   thinking I'll boy like this size is [TS]

00:31:51   really nice and it's interesting to use [TS]

00:31:53   and i love this design like it obviously [TS]

00:31:55   looks better than the garbage 6 design i [TS]

00:31:57   was thinkin all of those things but [TS]

00:31:59   actually using it for a few days is like [TS]

00:32:02   seeing in the store x 10 it's just it's [TS]

00:32:04   I keep feeling this this word of like [TS]

00:32:06   relief like I am relieved to have this [TS]

00:32:09   phone now it's just so much nicer and so [TS]

00:32:12   much more pleasant to use in every [TS]

00:32:14   possible way I like that it's smaller i [TS]

00:32:16   find it like in the gym taking it in and [TS]

00:32:18   out of my pocket to record like [TS]

00:32:20   exercises better across every single [TS]

00:32:24   axes i find this phone superior so great [TS]

00:32:28   i'm going to have a mechanical watch on [TS]

00:32:30   your wrist by Christmas little not [TS]

00:32:34   you will not my friend you will not to [TS]

00:32:38   our by next June I'm becoming concerned [TS]

00:32:43   with the amount of humility that golfers [TS]

00:32:46   are showing and it's being it's being [TS]

00:32:49   led by this guy who's one of the big hot [TS]

00:32:51   golfers of the moments got called Jordan [TS]

00:32:53   space and I know that he's not the only [TS]

00:32:55   one who does this but he's the one that [TS]

00:32:56   I really strongly notice doing this and [TS]

00:32:58   then there is referring to himself as [TS]

00:33:01   way and it and partly that's because he [TS]

00:33:06   has got a team of people and he has got [TS]

00:33:07   his caddy so when he's on the course [TS]

00:33:09   there is a real team teamwork between [TS]

00:33:10   the golfer in the caddy [TS]

00:33:12   I do get that and I do get that being a [TS]

00:33:14   professional golfer this day these days [TS]

00:33:16   isn't just like one person there is like [TS]

00:33:19   a team around you but this sort of [TS]

00:33:21   humbleness at the end of the round when [TS]

00:33:23   you do something good and saying yeah we [TS]

00:33:25   had a great day and we were really happy [TS]

00:33:27   with how we played when really there's [TS]

00:33:29   only one person striking the bowl and [TS]

00:33:30   doing these things sometimes seems a bit [TS]

00:33:33   disingenuous i'm not familiar with this [TS]

00:33:36   person would he would he really say a [TS]

00:33:38   sentence like that we had [TS]

00:33:40   yeah we had a really great day today and [TS]

00:33:42   and don't get me wrong he has got a [TS]

00:33:43   caddy standing next to him who is doing [TS]

00:33:45   more than just carrying his club's I do [TS]

00:33:47   understand the role of a caddy and [TS]

00:33:48   modern golf but still it reached as enna [TS]

00:33:51   at the recent masters tournament when it [TS]

00:33:53   was won by a guy called Danny Willett is [TS]

00:33:57   an English guy and he was being [TS]

00:34:00   interviewed afterwards he was obviously [TS]

00:34:02   trying to do the way thing which [TS]

00:34:04   obviously has become the thing to do now [TS]

00:34:05   he was talking about how we're really [TS]

00:34:07   happy way and he was sort of slipping [TS]

00:34:09   between we and I in this uncomfortable [TS]

00:34:12   way and it at reaching it reached [TS]

00:34:15   fascicle proportions when he was talking [TS]

00:34:18   about his parents and how much his [TS]

00:34:20   parents did for him when he was growing [TS]

00:34:21   up and he said that he said of his [TS]

00:34:24   parents he said I hope they're really [TS]

00:34:26   proud of the person we've become I don't [TS]

00:34:29   think even the Queen we'd use we in that [TS]

00:34:32   way [TS]

00:34:33   no but it does but it did it did remind [TS]

00:34:35   me that this is this is something that I [TS]

00:34:37   think we as in people like us gray can [TS]

00:34:41   be guilty of and I can be guilty of and [TS]

00:34:44   they there is I quite often use way home [TS]

00:34:48   when referring to things i'm doing like [TS]

00:34:51   if I'm talking about something at [TS]

00:34:53   numberphile or something that period [TS]

00:34:55   videos i will often use way and should i [TS]

00:34:58   be using I and partly using way because [TS]

00:35:02   I do work with all these other people [TS]

00:35:03   and there's all these people i feel- [TS]

00:35:04   huge team effort but if I'm sitting here [TS]

00:35:07   at my desk saying we love all these [TS]

00:35:09   tweets ending in and i'm the only one [TS]

00:35:11   reading them who knows about them [TS]

00:35:13   it is a little bit disingenuous of me to [TS]

00:35:15   be using way people like me who is sort [TS]

00:35:18   of individuals but work with other [TS]

00:35:20   people i sometimes get myself into a [TS]

00:35:22   tangle about when I should use way and I [TS]

00:35:24   wonder what you think about that but it [TS]

00:35:27   didn't really occur to me I mean there [TS]

00:35:28   are scenarios under which may be [TS]

00:35:30   theoretically this would be a problem [TS]

00:35:31   for me like with the star trek video [TS]

00:35:33   that i made we're connected all the [TS]

00:35:34   artwork but it wouldn't occur to me on [TS]

00:35:37   Twitter to say something like we are [TS]

00:35:40   really happy with the way the video is [TS]

00:35:43   being received like that that would that [TS]

00:35:45   would seem like i'm having some kind of [TS]

00:35:47   psychotic break to write a tweet in that [TS]

00:35:51   way even where it's a case like [TS]

00:35:52   obviously I didn't draw that artwork [TS]

00:35:54   I'm obviously not that talented but it [TS]

00:35:56   would seem so strange to use a wee in in [TS]

00:36:01   a scenario like that [TS]

00:36:02   yeah but I don't feel strange when our [TS]

00:36:05   to a tweet likes I'm tweeting under the [TS]

00:36:06   periodic videos banner which is you know [TS]

00:36:08   I work with all these professors and [TS]

00:36:10   chemists and stuff and if I say we're [TS]

00:36:13   really excited about the video we're [TS]

00:36:14   putting out tomorrow when i'm just [TS]

00:36:17   sitting at my desk on mine I haven't [TS]

00:36:18   spoken to the others for a week auto [TS]

00:36:20   right they don't know the videos even [TS]

00:36:22   coming out tomorrow right [TS]

00:36:23   it's just you and the dogs there yeah [TS]

00:36:25   yeah so and yeah I feel completely [TS]

00:36:28   comfortable saying that I do feel [TS]

00:36:29   completely comfortable referring to my [TS]

00:36:31   projects with a way [TS]

00:36:33   ok I think there's this couple things [TS]

00:36:34   that are different here that right [TS]

00:36:35   because one you're tweeting from the [TS]

00:36:38   periodic videos tweet right and and you [TS]

00:36:41   have a separate Brady Haran twitter that [TS]

00:36:44   is you as an individual [TS]

00:36:45   so this is periodic videos the corporate [TS]

00:36:48   entity talking about what everyone has [TS]

00:36:52   done [TS]

00:36:53   in the same way like we don't really use [TS]

00:36:55   this is that we have a whole lot of [TS]

00:36:57   sense it's all tangled in my friend you [TS]

00:36:59   you and I Brady you and I do not tweet [TS]

00:37:03   from the hello Internet twitter account [TS]

00:37:06   very often i don't think i would go on [TS]

00:37:09   to the hello Internet Twitter account [TS]

00:37:11   and make any kind of statement in the [TS]

00:37:13   first person I I don't think I would do [TS]

00:37:16   that right i think if i hit you and I [TS]

00:37:19   use the Twitter account to announce that [TS]

00:37:21   you and I are going to be recording an [TS]

00:37:23   episode i think i would use the word we [TS]

00:37:25   if I was tweeting from the hello [TS]

00:37:26   internet account we are going to be [TS]

00:37:28   recording tonight is there anything we [TS]

00:37:30   should talk about that seems very [TS]

00:37:31   natural because it's you and me right [TS]

00:37:34   yeah i think though where you run into [TS]

00:37:37   more trouble to hopefully poison your [TS]

00:37:39   mind to keep it is whenever you are [TS]

00:37:42   talking about any of your videos because [TS]

00:37:45   you are not on camera very often in most [TS]

00:37:49   of your projects objectivity is a [TS]

00:37:51   notable exception but for like on [TS]

00:37:53   numberphile you're behind the camera [TS]

00:37:54   most of the time [TS]

00:37:55   hmm you know sometimes the audience will [TS]

00:37:57   hear you ask a question right in that [TS]

00:37:58   you're there but the person you're [TS]

00:38:00   filming is the visual on-screen presence [TS]

00:38:05   yeah and you are the editing presence [TS]

00:38:08   and so it seems like it's almost [TS]

00:38:09   impossible for you to talk about any of [TS]

00:38:12   your number file like videos in anything [TS]

00:38:15   other than a week yeah because it's it's [TS]

00:38:17   so intrinsically a multi-person project [TS]

00:38:21   even though you are doing the filming [TS]

00:38:23   and you are doing the editing you aren't [TS]

00:38:26   really doing any of the explaining like [TS]

00:38:28   someone else's on camera doing the [TS]

00:38:30   talking like you're guiding that and [TS]

00:38:32   editing that it's obviously the two of [TS]

00:38:35   you so from now on you should never use [TS]

00:38:37   the first person singular when referring [TS]

00:38:38   to any of your videos like that you [TS]

00:38:40   should always usually that's what you [TS]

00:38:41   should do [TS]

00:38:42   yeah yeah even if you're tweeting from [TS]

00:38:46   from Brady Haran we are quite pleased [TS]

00:38:49   with the reception of the latest [TS]

00:38:50   numberphile video that's that's what you [TS]

00:38:52   should do from now on the main reason I [TS]

00:38:53   started that Brady Haran Twitter was I [TS]

00:38:55   was getting myself into such a pickle [TS]

00:38:57   with disentangling myself from they may [TS]

00:39:01   in being in projects but they're the [TS]

00:39:04   mask you're being another use of the [TS]

00:39:05   weave out [TS]

00:39:06   yeah what do you think when i say a [TS]

00:39:10   couple you know comes up to you and says [TS]

00:39:13   say it like at a dinner party something [TS]

00:39:15   they go we have an exciting announcement [TS]

00:39:17   we're pregnant what do you think about [TS]

00:39:19   that use of the way i am not a fan of it [TS]

00:39:22   I don't want to offend anyone but i [TS]

00:39:25   think i think only one person can be [TS]

00:39:28   pregnant in that scenario i appreciate [TS]

00:39:31   the Solidarity of it and if you choose [TS]

00:39:33   to do it i respect to X if someone came [TS]

00:39:36   up to me and said we're pregnant I [TS]

00:39:37   wouldn't laugh at them and say you're an [TS]

00:39:38   idiot [TS]

00:39:39   only she is but it's not it's not the [TS]

00:39:42   path i would choose yeah you wouldn't [TS]

00:39:44   you wouldn't go that way [TS]

00:39:45   no I i think it seems strange yeah but i [TS]

00:39:49   but I get it you know in the modern [TS]

00:39:51   world and look at you look at you being [TS]

00:39:52   all diplomatic you've got you know you [TS]

00:39:54   have to be sometimes you have to be I [TS]

00:39:56   don't think you have to be I I think [TS]

00:39:58   it's better to say that the individual [TS]

00:40:01   is pregnant was pregnant I guess if you [TS]

00:40:04   come up and say we're pregnant it takes [TS]

00:40:05   away my ability to make the host the [TS]

00:40:07   father joke [TS]

00:40:08   yeah yeah there it is that is that your [TS]

00:40:13   go-to very few people announced they're [TS]

00:40:15   pregnant father [TS]

00:40:19   it depends on the air depends on the on [TS]

00:40:22   the toad turn of the announcement I [TS]

00:40:24   think you could say we're having a baby [TS]

00:40:25   and I'd be really comfortable with that [TS]

00:40:27   no I think any one person can be [TS]

00:40:29   biologically pregnant I have no such [TS]

00:40:32   compulsion to avoid defense in this case [TS]

00:40:34   whenever I hear anyone say we're [TS]

00:40:37   pregnant [TS]

00:40:38   I just internally i'm thinking you know [TS]

00:40:41   how stupid you sound right now if you [TS]

00:40:43   think i know i don't like this is [TS]

00:40:45   supposed to be a moment where I'm really [TS]

00:40:46   happy for you but really internally i [TS]

00:40:48   can't help but the reflexive thought of [TS]

00:40:50   like you sound like idiots at this [TS]

00:40:52   moment right saying we're pregnant like [TS]

00:40:53   no you're not pregnant she's pregnant [TS]

00:40:55   you got her pregnant that's how this [TS]

00:40:57   works we are having a baby is the [TS]

00:41:00   appropriate way to phrase that you two [TS]

00:41:02   having a baby but the we're pregnant [TS]

00:41:04   thing it seems like bizarre over [TS]

00:41:08   solidarity aside from just being an [TS]

00:41:10   idiot like it's almost creepy like [TS]

00:41:12   there's something about it which is like [TS]

00:41:13   I don't know it's like it's too much man [TS]

00:41:16   this is a nice segue to Brady's papercut [TS]

00:41:19   because i haven't done it [TS]

00:41:20   ladies papercut for a while it's been [TS]

00:41:21   forever it has been over but my paper [TS]

00:41:25   cut that I wanted to bring up today is [TS]

00:41:26   also to do with the turn of phrase em [TS]

00:41:28   that works me and I want to see where [TS]

00:41:33   you stand up [TS]

00:41:34   mhm if something happens and you're not [TS]

00:41:39   particularly bothered by your shrugs [TS]

00:41:41   about it which is often your response to [TS]

00:41:43   it as saying you may use is I blank care [TS]

00:41:50   less what would the blank baby you there [TS]

00:41:52   couldn't care less [TS]

00:41:54   I couldn't care less thank you i know [TS]

00:41:56   lots of people say I could care less i [TS]

00:42:00   think this is an Americanism I don't [TS]

00:42:02   know and no man that annoys me because [TS]

00:42:04   it completely changes the meaning of the [TS]

00:42:06   what you sayin it's the opposite and it [TS]

00:42:10   takes away the impact saying i could not [TS]

00:42:12   care less is like funny saying I could [TS]

00:42:15   care less means there is scope for me to [TS]

00:42:18   care less so I do care to some extent [TS]

00:42:20   and it's taken away all the meaning [TS]

00:42:21   you're trying to give of being [TS]

00:42:23   completely different i agree i think [TS]

00:42:25   couldn't care less is the only [TS]

00:42:27   appropriate way to phrase this [TS]

00:42:28   Thank You there's no other way to phrase [TS]

00:42:30   this and yes it is almost [TS]

00:42:32   unintentionally hilarious that the [TS]

00:42:34   person gives the exact reverse of what [TS]

00:42:36   they are usually trying to say people do [TS]

00:42:38   all the time [TS]

00:42:39   oh I could care this really so you do [TS]

00:42:41   care do that's good [TS]

00:42:42   no I don't care what you just said you [TS]

00:42:44   could care less so that mean yeah i [TS]

00:42:47   think this is one of those cases where [TS]

00:42:48   in language you you often have cases [TS]

00:42:51   where people don't even hear or think [TS]

00:42:53   about the words they're saying there is [TS]

00:42:56   just a phrase that exists that expresses [TS]

00:42:58   a thing and the person is not thinking [TS]

00:43:01   about the actual words i just came [TS]

00:43:04   across something like this the other day [TS]

00:43:05   when i use some phrase and I had to stop [TS]

00:43:07   and I felt like what does that even mean [TS]

00:43:09   we could like these words that I've just [TS]

00:43:11   said i know the feeling that i'm trying [TS]

00:43:13   to express but has never occurred to me [TS]

00:43:14   to examine these actual words before I [TS]

00:43:17   really good example of that i always [TS]

00:43:20   think it's not phrase but a word is [TS]

00:43:22   breakfast like the word breakfast has [TS]

00:43:25   transcended breaking the fast now [TS]

00:43:27   moon and no one thinks of breaking fast [TS]

00:43:29   when they say breakfast breakfast its [TS]

00:43:31   own thing that [TS]

00:43:32   that transcends its origins that that's [TS]

00:43:35   a good way to put it [TS]

00:43:36   and I think maybe maybe Brady if you're [TS]

00:43:38   feeling in accepting food you should [TS]

00:43:39   accept I could care less as breakfast [TS]

00:43:43   that the person is you know what they're [TS]

00:43:45   trying to express and they're just using [TS]

00:43:48   a sequence of sounds to express that [TS]

00:43:49   idea [TS]

00:43:50   now now you know you're not gonna you're [TS]

00:43:53   not gonna go with that you know is that [TS]

00:43:55   it because of people started misspelling [TS]

00:43:57   breakfast I wouldn't just accept that [TS]

00:43:58   should do it like that I would not [TS]

00:44:02   accept that sir app because because the [TS]

00:44:07   thing about the thing is as well saying [TS]

00:44:10   when you say I couldn't care less [TS]

00:44:12   you are being smart ass like you are [TS]

00:44:15   being sassy when you say I couldn't care [TS]

00:44:16   less as you know on the internet when [TS]

00:44:18   you are a smart so when you're being [TS]

00:44:19   clever there is huge extra [TS]

00:44:21   responsibility on you to get things [TS]

00:44:23   right [TS]

00:44:24   that's a good point yeah like I'm sure [TS]

00:44:26   if you've ever written off as snarky [TS]

00:44:28   comment on whether or Twitter or YouTube [TS]

00:44:30   you check it and triple-checked yeah you [TS]

00:44:33   haven't made you haven't we haven't made [TS]

00:44:35   a spelling mistake you haven't because [TS]

00:44:36   nothing looks more stupid than being [TS]

00:44:38   snapped and mr. smartass and then being [TS]

00:44:40   wrong yourself so i think that's what it [TS]

00:44:42   is [TS]

00:44:42   whoa i could converse and they're being [TS]

00:44:46   they think they're being all that I feel [TS]

00:44:48   like saying well you have knob you just [TS]

00:44:51   said about i think you're right i think [TS]

00:44:53   you're right there's something like [TS]

00:44:55   intrinsically slacker teenager e about [TS]

00:44:58   the phrase I couldn't care less [TS]

00:45:01   that's the feeling that comes along with [TS]

00:45:02   that but her shoulder when you're being [TS]

00:45:04   snarky [TS]

00:45:05   you have to be on the ball is like [TS]

00:45:06   everybody's had the experience of giving [TS]

00:45:09   into their inner grammar nazi and [TS]

00:45:11   correcting someone about a picky point [TS]

00:45:13   and then discovering later to their [TS]

00:45:14   horror that they made an error in their [TS]

00:45:16   very corrections ya know I look like a [TS]

00:45:21   total moron denote the number of times [TS]

00:45:25   I've corrected someone effect like Oh [TS]

00:45:27   didn't you know everyone knows that [TS]

00:45:28   after spending eight hours researching [TS]

00:45:30   on the internet [TS]

00:45:38   thank you to squarespace for their [TS]

00:45:42   support of this podcast if you've never [TS]

00:45:44   used Squarespace i recommend you listen [TS]

00:45:47   for the next few seconds because it's [TS]

00:45:48   really worth hearing about them i have [TS]

00:45:50   to be used to find a little bit hard [TS]

00:45:52   explaining what Squarespace is I looked [TS]

00:45:55   it up on Wikipedia to see how it was [TS]

00:45:56   described there and there was called a [TS]

00:45:59   SAS based CMS which kind of makes sense [TS]

00:46:02   if you know what those things are but [TS]

00:46:03   still sounds kind of technical i [TS]

00:46:05   described as a website that lets you [TS]

00:46:08   make your own website now I round two [TS]

00:46:10   sites of our Squarespace my own blog and [TS]

00:46:12   the podcast postcard site and basically [TS]

00:46:15   I just log in and it gives me access to [TS]

00:46:17   the back end of both those websites [TS]

00:46:20   it's a really simple clean really cool [TS]

00:46:22   interface and from there I can add pages [TS]

00:46:24   i can update pages i can embed my [TS]

00:46:27   youtube videos insert pictures write [TS]

00:46:29   blog posts i can do anything on both the [TS]

00:46:32   website and within a few k stroke [TS]

00:46:34   sometimes the site's updated they look [TS]

00:46:36   great and they work on everyone's [TS]

00:46:38   devices and computers on mobile phones [TS]

00:46:41   that's all taken care of [TS]

00:46:42   behind-the-scenes Squarespace has got [TS]

00:46:44   great templates to get you started that [TS]

00:46:46   way you can rest assure your works going [TS]

00:46:48   to look professional but you can also [TS]

00:46:49   get into those templates and customize [TS]

00:46:51   them really tweak them to your heart's [TS]

00:46:53   content make the site look your own so [TS]

00:46:55   if you want to be more a part of the [TS]

00:46:57   internet maybe you want to blog a [TS]

00:46:58   portfolio maybe you want to start a shop [TS]

00:47:01   Squarespace is great for that to really [TS]

00:47:03   just give them a look give it a try [TS]

00:47:05   you can actually set up a practice site [TS]

00:47:07   without making any commitment just to [TS]

00:47:08   see how well it works for you that's [TS]

00:47:10   what I did the start if you like what [TS]

00:47:11   you say you can then get ten percent of [TS]

00:47:14   your first purchase by using the offer [TS]

00:47:16   code [TS]

00:47:17   hello at squarespace.com offer code [TS]

00:47:21   hello so they know you came from the [TS]

00:47:23   podcast Squarespace all one word with [TS]

00:47:26   the dot-com as i said i use it i know [TS]

00:47:28   gray users that we're really pleased to [TS]

00:47:30   have them as a sponsor of the show our [TS]

00:47:32   thanks to squarespace just a quick [TS]

00:47:35   mention by popular demand how [TS]

00:47:37   appropriate actually just as I started [TS]

00:47:38   that sentence i'm looking at my window [TS]

00:47:40   at a huge containership going along the [TS]

00:47:44   Bristol Channel because it's a red [TS]

00:47:45   container ship which is the same color [TS]

00:47:47   as this polar research vessel that is to [TS]

00:47:51   be [TS]

00:47:51   instructed by the British government I [TS]

00:47:53   believe to go and do science in li [TS]

00:47:58   Antarctica Antarctica and they decided [TS]

00:48:01   they would allow it to be named by the [TS]

00:48:03   public by sort of public suggestions and [TS]

00:48:06   public votes [TS]

00:48:07   hmmm what could possibly go wrong [TS]

00:48:10   everything everything could go wrong [TS]

00:48:12   people now you don't just open up a [TS]

00:48:14   collection to the internet that the [TS]

00:48:16   terrible idea exactly they made two [TS]

00:48:18   mistakes that you and I did not make [TS]

00:48:20   when we had a flag though [TS]

00:48:22   yeah because we're professionals so what [TS]

00:48:24   they did not do is create their own [TS]

00:48:25   short list which we did and another [TS]

00:48:28   thing they didn't do is put physical and [TS]

00:48:31   financial constraints between people and [TS]

00:48:33   their ability to vote which we did by [TS]

00:48:35   the postcards and because they made that [TS]

00:48:38   mistake the internet had fun with them [TS]

00:48:41   and by far and away the most popular [TS]

00:48:45   name that was suggested jokingly and [TS]

00:48:47   then received well over a hundred [TS]

00:48:49   thousand votes to win the pole was boaty [TS]

00:48:53   mcboatface which does not seem a very [TS]

00:48:59   great name for a you know a polar [TS]

00:49:03   exploration ship I think that we're [TS]

00:49:04   imagining would be won by something like [TS]

00:49:05   you know just Scott or they the her [TS]

00:49:08   Royal Highness or anthem of the Seas or [TS]

00:49:11   something suitably grad button but no [TS]

00:49:15   boaty mcboatface so obviously that I [TS]

00:49:17   think that the minister the government [TS]

00:49:19   minister has had to intervene and say [TS]

00:49:21   we're not going to call a podium at both [TS]

00:49:23   face I think that's been taken off the [TS]

00:49:25   table and I don't know what you think [TS]

00:49:27   about that gray ok well i mean as often [TS]

00:49:31   happens with hello Internet preparations [TS]

00:49:34   you bring up a thing and you say like oh [TS]

00:49:36   should we talk about this thing and then [TS]

00:49:37   i say i don't know what you're talking [TS]

00:49:39   about i've never heard about this thing [TS]

00:49:40   so this body mcboatface thing is new to [TS]

00:49:43   me as of literally an hour ago I had I [TS]

00:49:45   had never heard about this but you sent [TS]

00:49:48   me an article which says that would you [TS]

00:49:51   describe this internet election occurred [TS]

00:49:53   boaty mcboatface was selected but then [TS]

00:49:56   that the UK government is saying no [TS]

00:49:58   we're not going to name it bodean [TS]

00:49:59   mcboatface and and obviously I haven't [TS]

00:50:03   been following the story [TS]

00:50:04   but it feels like okay one UK government [TS]

00:50:08   you ran your election horribly for the [TS]

00:50:10   reasons mentioned before to you were the [TS]

00:50:16   luckiest bastards on the face of the [TS]

00:50:19   earth to get the name bode mcboatface I [TS]

00:50:22   could you know how horribly this could [TS]

00:50:23   have gone like Modi mcboatface you [TS]

00:50:27   should be kissing the ground that the [TS]

00:50:29   internet selected that name like that's [TS]

00:50:31   because it's like it's a fun name right [TS]

00:50:33   everybody can get behind it it's like a [TS]

00:50:36   look now you have this adorable Arctic [TS]

00:50:38   research mascot like Brody mcboatface [TS]

00:50:40   this is like the internet is you know [TS]

00:50:43   sometimes it can be horrible but this is [TS]

00:50:45   a moment where the Internet is blessing [TS]

00:50:47   you with a bit of hilarity and then you [TS]

00:50:50   make the final horrible step of coming [TS]

00:50:53   in like some grumpy parent and saying no [TS]

00:50:56   we can't call it Brody mcboatface we're [TS]

00:50:58   going to give it some serious name every [TS]

00:51:00   step of the way you have done this wrong [TS]

00:51:02   like roll with it if it's boaty [TS]

00:51:04   mcboatface migrate commissioned an [TS]

00:51:06   artist to paint gigantic cartoon letters [TS]

00:51:10   of Bodie mcboatface across the side of [TS]

00:51:12   this thing i like is i went to the fuck [TS]

00:51:14   yeah that's actually exactly you know [TS]

00:51:18   make the stovepipe like a little hat you [TS]

00:51:20   know do whatever you can do it would be [TS]

00:51:22   it would like this goal [TS]

00:51:24   this has got worldwide attention for [TS]

00:51:26   something that was no one would have [TS]

00:51:27   ever heard of people will flock to say [TS]

00:51:29   it whenever it comes into port [TS]

00:51:31   yeah like in Southampton wherever it is [TS]

00:51:33   to let you know restock before its next [TS]

00:51:35   mission people will come to see it [TS]

00:51:37   they'll have their photo taken with it [TS]

00:51:38   and that's a magnificent opportunity to [TS]

00:51:40   then say look I know it's got a funny [TS]

00:51:41   name [TS]

00:51:42   let us tell you a bit about the science [TS]

00:51:43   we're doing and like this was a you're [TS]

00:51:45   right this was a gift horse this kind of [TS]

00:51:47   backfired terribly and instead it became [TS]

00:51:49   this i'm actually surprised it didn't [TS]

00:51:51   get through the gray bubble because it [TS]

00:51:53   even became bit of a main for a few days [TS]

00:51:55   and and people were like were adopting [TS]

00:51:57   determine people would say our look it's [TS]

00:51:59   great grey face and let's go [TS]

00:52:03   you know people would work changing it [TS]

00:52:04   to whatever whatever they wanted that's [TS]

00:52:06   not this is the mutation that always [TS]

00:52:08   take this right here this was fantastic [TS]

00:52:11   and then to come to appear like you said [TS]

00:52:12   like a grumpy parent like to be so [TS]

00:52:14   draconian about it [TS]

00:52:16   I think I think that mr. trick and like [TS]

00:52:18   I kind of get if i was spending hundreds [TS]

00:52:20   of millions of pounds on a ship that was [TS]

00:52:22   really proud of and I had and I thought [TS]

00:52:25   it was going to have a magnificent night [TS]

00:52:26   and I had a silly night i might think [TS]

00:52:28   yeah yeah but that but if you did that's [TS]

00:52:31   because you're a grump with no sense of [TS]

00:52:32   humor or delight or anything like that [TS]

00:52:35   and that's why because they're your [TS]

00:52:37   government commission or something dumb [TS]

00:52:39   and you don't understand how the world [TS]

00:52:41   works and what's delights and sparks [TS]

00:52:44   people's interest right that's probably [TS]

00:52:46   why you're in the position that you're [TS]

00:52:47   in right now that's probably why you ran [TS]

00:52:50   this internet election the way that you [TS]

00:52:51   didn't like the most cursory of research [TS]

00:52:54   would have revealed that this would be a [TS]

00:52:56   terrible way to run into an election [TS]

00:52:58   like this is not the first time someone [TS]

00:53:00   has opened up with something to the [TS]

00:53:02   public for the internet to vote on it [TS]

00:53:03   was like guess what they truly do the [TS]

00:53:05   thing that you want them to do like [TS]

00:53:07   almost by definition you are going to [TS]

00:53:09   get opposite results from what you want [TS]

00:53:11   the first one of these I can ever [TS]

00:53:12   remember is this is ages ago but the [TS]

00:53:16   first one was it [TS]

00:53:18   I think was t-shirt hell but this guy [TS]

00:53:20   who ran this t-shirt selling company he [TS]

00:53:23   ran a poll on the internets to change [TS]

00:53:25   his name like he didn't like his name [TS]

00:53:27   anything at all that the internet select [TS]

00:53:28   my name and now he's named sunshine [TS]

00:53:31   Megatron I think that's like this is [TS]

00:53:35   what happens it huh yeah like whether [TS]

00:53:39   there's like a a now decade-plus history [TS]

00:53:42   of this kind of nonsense happening [TS]

00:53:44   yeah i don't i also wonder how many [TS]

00:53:47   times they're gonna have to paint over [TS]

00:53:49   someone breaking into the docks in the [TS]

00:53:51   middle of the night putting proteomic [TS]

00:53:53   place on the side of the thing anyway [TS]

00:53:54   now [TS]

00:53:54   yeah that's exactly what's gonna happen [TS]

00:53:56   mr. splashy pants was another one of [TS]

00:53:58   these things where Greenpeace had some [TS]

00:54:00   internet name to pick like a humpback [TS]

00:54:03   whale they wanted to name and of course [TS]

00:54:05   it comes with mr. splashy pants and it [TS]

00:54:07   was a similar thing about like there was [TS]

00:54:08   no there was some pushback about it like [TS]

00:54:10   this is a long time ago this is one of [TS]

00:54:11   like the earlier [TS]

00:54:13   reddit history kind of things like this [TS]

00:54:16   is always what's going to happen like [TS]

00:54:17   you're gonna do you want the internet [TS]

00:54:19   and name your thing like be careful what [TS]

00:54:20   you wish for [TS]

00:54:21   but if they're going to name it like for [TS]

00:54:22   the love of God don't go against what [TS]

00:54:24   they you just like you're guaranteed [TS]

00:54:27   just to make everybody angry and I agree [TS]

00:54:29   with you I wouldn't be the least bit [TS]

00:54:31   surprised if they end up having to deal [TS]

00:54:33   with vandalism like people spray-painted [TS]

00:54:36   nobody mcboatface lives across the side [TS]

00:54:39   of the but it's interesting seeing like [TS]

00:54:41   big organizations interact with the [TS]

00:54:43   internet and always just feels like you [TS]

00:54:45   guys know what you're doing like is [TS]

00:54:46   there anyone on your staff who's ever [TS]

00:54:47   been on the internet the kids you think [TS]

00:54:49   this through to take the other side for [TS]

00:54:51   a minute because it's only fair and I do [TS]

00:54:54   see the other side [TS]

00:54:55   hmm this is like a funny joke for a week [TS]

00:54:58   or two but like you hadn't heard of it [TS]

00:55:00   and the joke will go away and we'll [TS]

00:55:01   forget about it in a few weeks this boat [TS]

00:55:04   sorry it's not actually about which is [TS]

00:55:06   another issue this ship would be built [TS]

00:55:08   for another couple of years and then it [TS]

00:55:10   will probably be in service for 20 or 30 [TS]

00:55:13   years is that is that right to have this [TS]

00:55:16   this flash-in-the-pan joke on the side [TS]

00:55:19   of the ship for all that time when you [TS]

00:55:21   could do something a bit more dignified [TS]

00:55:23   cold call at the david attenborough [TS]

00:55:25   somethin okay let me ask you something [TS]

00:55:27   how many boats in the world can you name [TS]

00:55:30   well yeah yeah I I only a handful right [TS]

00:55:35   but they all have very majestic names [TS]

00:55:37   like the Queen Mary and and the Queen [TS]

00:55:40   Elizabeth and things like that they [TS]

00:55:42   don't have names like silly Mick [TS]

00:55:44   silliness right but the thing is the [TS]

00:55:47   majestic names don't guarantee [TS]

00:55:49   notability because every boat has some [TS]

00:55:52   majestic name right [TS]

00:55:54   this is this is one way that this boat [TS]

00:55:57   will at least be remembered and known [TS]

00:55:59   about for a long period of time [TS]

00:56:01   this makes it stand out like it's a [TS]

00:56:03   funny thing it's a it's a bit of fun [TS]

00:56:04   history that goes along with it makes it [TS]

00:56:06   unique among the boats i don't agree [TS]

00:56:08   with the like over 30 years from now [TS]

00:56:10   we're going to have to be telling a [TS]

00:56:12   story about how we're an internet poll [TS]

00:56:13   in the name of protein mcboatface like [TS]

00:56:15   that's that's part of the fun of it i [TS]

00:56:17   think that's what makes it unique [TS]

00:56:18   I didn't I cry out about it let me argue [TS]

00:56:20   the point then I think it's incumbent on [TS]

00:56:23   leaders and people in position [TS]

00:56:25   of authority to think beyond and Mimi [TS]

00:56:29   joke for a couple of weeks [TS]

00:56:30   it's easy for you and I to see here [TS]

00:56:32   don't get me wrong i know i've been [TS]

00:56:34   saying they should call the boat in my [TS]

00:56:35   face but it's easy for you and I to sit [TS]

00:56:37   here and think it amuses us and it has [TS]

00:56:40   amused the internet let's do it [TS]

00:56:42   whereas there are other people who have [TS]

00:56:43   to think about other considerations I [TS]

00:56:45   mean in 10 years the people who run this [TS]

00:56:48   ship are going to be applying to a [TS]

00:56:50   different government in a different time [TS]

00:56:51   in a different area to a different [TS]

00:56:53   funding body saying can we have 20 [TS]

00:56:55   million dollars for our penguin research [TS]

00:56:57   aboard the botty mcboatface and I think [TS]

00:57:01   and I think and that's going to hurt [TS]

00:57:02   them [TS]

00:57:03   that's gonna hurt him because of a jokey [TS]

00:57:05   decision that's made now whereas if they [TS]

00:57:07   said can we will it hurt them though I [TS]

00:57:09   don't think that's a guaranteed thing i [TS]

00:57:11   don't know i think could I think I think [TS]

00:57:14   people who bequeathed large sums of [TS]

00:57:16   money and her allocate funds are drawn [TS]

00:57:20   to integrity and seriousness more than [TS]

00:57:24   they are to joke eNOS and and flippant [TS]

00:57:27   things and I think labeling at boaty [TS]

00:57:29   mcboatface for all time will always be a [TS]

00:57:33   bit of a wink-wink [TS]

00:57:35   are they serious but don't you want to [TS]

00:57:37   stand out in the application pile i [TS]

00:57:38   think that the legitimate argument well [TS]

00:57:40   yeah you could stand out in the [TS]

00:57:42   application power by dressing up as a [TS]

00:57:44   clown as well standing out doesn't [TS]

00:57:46   always mean success [TS]

00:57:48   nope sure doesn't I do see the other [TS]

00:57:50   argument I do i do think go with it [TS]

00:57:53   might mind over all things considered I [TS]

00:57:55   don't say roll with it [TS]

00:57:57   not such a bad name that it's gonna hurt [TS]

00:57:59   you forever it's not like you know they [TS]

00:58:00   said that's called the Adolf Hitler yeah [TS]

00:58:02   but but i do even even the adults Hitler [TS]

00:58:06   I would feel like you got off lucky [TS]

00:58:08   right yeah well I could have said [TS]

00:58:10   something else but i probably contravene [TS]

00:58:12   some of my yeah i mean that we're [TS]

00:58:13   policies like yeah he could be called [TS]

00:58:15   like the cup make peace with yourself [TS]

00:58:18   but right like that's what I could [TS]

00:58:19   recall i think it is you feel quite sure [TS]

00:58:21   of baits for the episode there [TS]

00:58:23   yeah like that could easily happen right [TS]

00:58:26   it easily I do have some sympathy for [TS]

00:58:30   putting your foot down and saying no [TS]

00:58:32   we're going to have a we're going to [TS]

00:58:34   have a more dignified night one of the [TS]

00:58:35   best suggestions i read was someone [TS]

00:58:37   saying [TS]

00:58:38   because it's not actually about anyway [TS]

00:58:39   but it does have like a little small [TS]

00:58:41   boat on it presumably to go into a [TS]

00:58:43   little coastal runs to go and see the [TS]

00:58:45   Penguins like the captain's yacht and [TS]

00:58:47   star trek basically yeah call the little [TS]

00:58:49   mini-boat boaty mcboatface and give the [TS]

00:58:51   big ship not shipping mixture place but [TS]

00:58:54   it happened like like it give the big [TS]

00:58:57   ship it's dignified name but at least to [TS]

00:58:59   do a nod to boaty mcboatface by calling [TS]

00:59:01   the small one that which I thought was [TS]

00:59:03   not a bad compromise [TS]

00:59:05   now now now now but now it doesn't don't [TS]

00:59:08   compromise no compromise don't accept [TS]

00:59:11   that internet I'm actually talking [TS]

00:59:14   myself out of calling a boaty mcboatface [TS]

00:59:15   now i can i can hear it in your voice as [TS]

00:59:18   you go on this is what happens like you [TS]

00:59:19   you initially take the other side is the [TS]

00:59:21   devil's advocate and then you suddenly [TS]

00:59:23   find yourself on the other side but this [TS]

00:59:25   is what makes you good at your job [TS]

00:59:26   I'm very persuasive great i can even [TS]

00:59:28   save myself after much to it and [TS]

00:59:33   throwing and spiking a nun spiking you [TS]

00:59:35   did do you your encryption Apple hacking [TS]

00:59:38   I phony videos i did United that there [TS]

00:59:44   were there was a bit of anguish about [TS]

00:59:45   this [TS]

00:59:46   there was no vanquished about this even [TS]

00:59:48   as you fight if you thought i should go [TS]

00:59:50   ahead with making the video we're not [TS]

00:59:51   know no you haven't you even gave me a [TS]

00:59:53   sneaky look at a script yeah I wanted [TS]

00:59:56   your input on it you talked you told me [TS]

00:59:57   to go ahead a bunch of people told me to [TS]

00:59:59   go ahead [TS]

00:59:59   go ahead [TS]

01:00:00   so yes I i did make it despite several [TS]

01:00:03   weeks ago the case that brought this up [TS]

01:00:05   originally was this whole like Apple [TS]

01:00:07   versus the FBI thing with the FBI wanted [TS]

01:00:08   Apple to open up their phone and make a [TS]

01:00:11   bunch of data available and it's like [TS]

01:00:13   it's a whole big complicated thing with [TS]

01:00:14   tons of details that don't really matter [TS]

01:00:16   but i was working on a script about that [TS]

01:00:18   and then that whole thing just ended and [TS]

01:00:20   i thought like oh well this is over and [TS]

01:00:22   then I thought the script was kind of [TS]

01:00:23   useless after that point but the story [TS]

01:00:25   is not over and I i did end up [TS]

01:00:27   continuing to work on it thanks partly [TS]

01:00:29   to the encouragement of you and some [TS]

01:00:30   other people and so yeah I put two [TS]

01:00:33   videos of which are sort of about the [TS]

01:00:35   Apple FBI thing without ever mentioning [TS]

01:00:37   the Apple or the FBI thing because I [TS]

01:00:39   think there's a there's a much bigger [TS]

01:00:41   question here which is about encryption [TS]

01:00:44   just in general I have two questions [TS]

01:00:46   great em both of them will portray [TS]

01:00:49   perhaps ignorance in the subject that's [TS]

01:00:51   okay i buy revel in my ignorance [TS]

01:00:53   the first one is about this warrants and [TS]

01:00:55   searching because obviously there is [TS]

01:00:58   this different situation that like you [TS]

01:01:00   know judge can issue a warrant and the [TS]

01:01:02   police can break your door down and [TS]

01:01:05   search your house if you if you if you [TS]

01:01:06   don't let them in [TS]

01:01:07   what's the situation with phones in [TS]

01:01:10   terms of if you were still alive who and [TS]

01:01:13   the judge said the police have the right [TS]

01:01:16   to look into cgp grace phone [TS]

01:01:18   great please enter the code so the [TS]

01:01:19   police can look em presumably you can be [TS]

01:01:23   compelled to do that under and if you [TS]

01:01:25   don't know put you in prison for [TS]

01:01:26   contempt of court like I'm assuming they [TS]

01:01:29   can still do that because also they do [TS]

01:01:30   that with you know when people were [TS]

01:01:31   texting while they were driving and [TS]

01:01:33   things like that are what's the what's [TS]

01:01:35   the law there i'm not talking about [TS]

01:01:36   Apple breaking into the fine which i [TS]

01:01:38   think is very different [TS]

01:01:40   yeah the different that's a different [TS]

01:01:41   question what's the situation with [TS]

01:01:42   compelling use the phone owner to [TS]

01:01:44   presumably that's like any other warrant [TS]

01:01:46   and a judge can do that [TS]

01:01:48   the answer is it depends on where you [TS]

01:01:50   live yeah and so if we take where we are [TS]

01:01:53   right now in the United Kingdom the [TS]

01:01:55   United Kingdom has written into the lot [TS]

01:01:59   that they can compel you to reveal the [TS]

01:02:02   passwords to your devices right so if [TS]

01:02:05   you're involved in a trial in the UK [TS]

01:02:06   they can say open up your phone and if [TS]

01:02:09   you say no there are criminal penalties [TS]

01:02:12   force [TS]

01:02:13   a no-no that's its time in prison you're [TS]

01:02:15   in contempt of the coal crackling enjoy [TS]

01:02:17   your time in solitary until you open [TS]

01:02:19   this phone like that that's what's going [TS]

01:02:20   to happen you have to choose not to but [TS]

01:02:23   they're going to compel you [TS]

01:02:24   yeah now what I think is of a very [TS]

01:02:29   interesting unique and I think important [TS]

01:02:34   part of the US legal system is this [TS]

01:02:37   protection against self-incrimination [TS]

01:02:40   now yeah some other places have this but [TS]

01:02:43   the United States has a particularly [TS]

01:02:45   strong version of this we're essentially [TS]

01:02:48   like the court cannot compel you to [TS]

01:02:51   speak or to act and so in the United [TS]

01:02:54   States if you have a phone and they say [TS]

01:02:57   open up this phone you are legally [TS]

01:02:59   allowed to just sit there and do nothing [TS]

01:03:01   you don't have to comply and they cannot [TS]

01:03:04   punish you for non-compliance around and [TS]

01:03:08   so this places the burden on the state [TS]

01:03:11   to prove things like you are you cannot [TS]

01:03:14   incriminate yourself and I think that's [TS]

01:03:17   where a lot of the really interesting [TS]

01:03:19   parts around this issue turn my [TS]

01:03:23   understanding i might not be one hundred [TS]

01:03:24   percent accurate about this my [TS]

01:03:26   understanding though is that there is a [TS]

01:03:27   little wrinkle with the fingerprint [TS]

01:03:29   sensor that police in the united states [TS]

01:03:34   can compel you to like touch the [TS]

01:03:38   fingerprint sensor there's like there's [TS]

01:03:39   something about this we're like the [TS]

01:03:40   police are allowed to put the phone [TS]

01:03:42   against your finger and that doesn't [TS]

01:03:44   actually count as compelling you to do [TS]

01:03:46   anything right and so like the [TS]

01:03:48   fingerprint sensor is like a is a bit of [TS]

01:03:50   a weird loophole in this so there are [TS]

01:03:52   ways that they can try to legally get [TS]

01:03:53   into your phone but they can't they [TS]

01:03:55   can't make you reveal the password which [TS]

01:03:57   there there's some interesting [TS]

01:03:58   consequences to both sides of these for [TS]

01:04:02   example i think the right to be able to [TS]

01:04:06   remain silent [TS]

01:04:08   I really think that should be part of [TS]

01:04:10   every legal system because one of the [TS]

01:04:12   things that I don't like about the UK [TS]

01:04:15   system where they can compel you to [TS]

01:04:17   speak is that you can end up in [TS]

01:04:19   situations where you are trapped so I [TS]

01:04:24   mean let's say that the police [TS]

01:04:26   read your home and within your computer [TS]

01:04:29   file somewhere is an encrypted file that [TS]

01:04:32   you don't know anything about that you [TS]

01:04:35   like you downloaded from somewhere like [TS]

01:04:36   some malware put on your computer or [TS]

01:04:38   whatever you can be in a situation where [TS]

01:04:40   they want to compel you to open that [TS]

01:04:41   file and it's like I can't I don't know [TS]

01:04:44   the password then like well we're gonna [TS]

01:04:46   make you think about that like go ahead [TS]

01:04:47   and sit in prison until you're able to [TS]

01:04:49   open up this file i don't like the even [TS]

01:04:51   the legal possibility of of a situation [TS]

01:04:54   like that occurring I don't think that's [TS]

01:04:57   a good thing to have in a legal system [TS]

01:04:59   that a person is required to perform an [TS]

01:05:03   action in order to not be in prison i'm [TS]

01:05:06   very strongly on the opposite side like [TS]

01:05:08   the burden should be on the state to do [TS]

01:05:10   everything to prove your guilt not the [TS]

01:05:14   other way around like I don't like [TS]

01:05:15   making things super easy for the [TS]

01:05:17   government to put people in prison I [TS]

01:05:19   think it definitionally should be a [TS]

01:05:21   difficult thing I'm sure I've seen lots [TS]

01:05:23   of American TV shows where people put in [TS]

01:05:26   prison for being in contempt of court [TS]

01:05:28   until they cough up the name or they [TS]

01:05:29   cough up a source or something so surely [TS]

01:05:31   there are some situations in America [TS]

01:05:33   where they compel people to do things [TS]

01:05:36   well I know you shouldn't base your [TS]

01:05:38   knowledge of the lower on American TV [TS]

01:05:40   shows but i'm going to guess most of [TS]

01:05:42   those cases have to do with a horrible [TS]

01:05:45   horrible plea bargaining system that [TS]

01:05:47   occurs in the united states there are [TS]

01:05:49   many ways in which you can be held in [TS]

01:05:52   prison like awaiting a trial and then [TS]

01:05:54   there's this whole question about like [TS]

01:05:55   what counts as a speedy trial in the [TS]

01:05:57   United States how long can they keep you [TS]

01:05:58   just waiting around like I think there's [TS]

01:06:00   certainly an amount of of wiggle room [TS]

01:06:03   about that i'm just talking about the [TS]

01:06:05   situation like when you get to a trial [TS]

01:06:08   like a trial is occurring what can [TS]

01:06:10   happen in in that scenario but in the [TS]

01:06:12   u.s. like his kidney to do something [TS]

01:06:15   about this but it's it is a horrible [TS]

01:06:17   situation like very very few cases ever [TS]

01:06:19   make it to trial they are all handled in [TS]

01:06:22   this very very high stakes [TS]

01:06:25   confrontational high-pressure plea [TS]

01:06:27   bargain kind of way where a lot of the [TS]

01:06:29   normal protections just don't work [TS]

01:06:30   because you're like bargaining with [TS]

01:06:32   lawyers so I think I imagine like that's [TS]

01:06:35   what you're thinking about that's what's [TS]

01:06:36   occurring there [TS]

01:06:36   another thing about your video on [TS]

01:06:39   encryption that struck me who was a kind [TS]

01:06:42   of not that it was your job to question [TS]

01:06:46   but you can't have had an unquestioning [TS]

01:06:48   faith in the integrity of encryption and [TS]

01:06:53   I don't know whether that's founded on [TS]

01:06:55   and I know that how how safe is you know [TS]

01:06:59   mathematical encryption I mean you know [TS]

01:07:01   I've done videos about and I'm i'm aware [TS]

01:07:03   of some of the things involved and the [TS]

01:07:04   prime numbers and and how it works and [TS]

01:07:07   things but you know with that we don't [TS]

01:07:09   know where quantum computing is really [TS]

01:07:11   at yea yea and things like that so i [TS]

01:07:14   mean hell with you you're assuming a lot [TS]

01:07:17   about the integrity of encryption when [TS]

01:07:19   you're making your arguments to do [TS]

01:07:21   question that in your head there there [TS]

01:07:22   is a brief moment in the video in one of [TS]

01:07:25   the slides where I make a reference to [TS]

01:07:27   on the screen there's a visual reference [TS]

01:07:28   to quantum computing just messin all of [TS]

01:07:30   this up because I didn't want to kind of [TS]

01:07:32   get it on record like I acknowledge [TS]

01:07:33   there are future technological problems [TS]

01:07:36   that may undo all of our current state [TS]

01:07:39   of of encryption they may actually end [TS]

01:07:41   up introducing with quantum computing [TS]

01:07:43   greater levels of encryption but we can [TS]

01:07:45   certainly say like stuff encrypted today [TS]

01:07:47   could be quite trivial for a quantum [TS]

01:07:51   computer years from now to unencrypt [TS]

01:07:53   like that we may very well be in that [TS]

01:07:55   case but there's two things that are [TS]

01:07:58   going on here like one is just this idea [TS]

01:08:00   of as a person can you encrypt data on [TS]

01:08:08   your computer in such a way so that no [TS]

01:08:11   one can practically access it and the [TS]

01:08:14   answer to that is yes because as far as [TS]

01:08:18   we know unless the NSA has some secret [TS]

01:08:20   quantum computer somewhere they're not [TS]

01:08:22   telling us about like an individual on [TS]

01:08:25   their own computer can encrypt files in [TS]

01:08:29   a way that it makes them essentially [TS]

01:08:31   unavailable for the rest of time [TS]

01:08:33   presuming no massive technological [TS]

01:08:34   changes [TS]

01:08:36   and I think that's like that's a really [TS]

01:08:40   interesting fact and i was trying [TS]

01:08:43   forever to come up with an analogy to [TS]

01:08:44   explain like how is this the case [TS]

01:08:46   because when people think about like [TS]

01:08:48   locking something away fundamentally [TS]

01:08:51   what you're doing is you are putting a [TS]

01:08:53   thing in a container and you're trying [TS]

01:08:55   to make the container really secure but [TS]

01:08:58   the thing is still inside the container [TS]

01:09:00   but the way encryption works is it's [TS]

01:09:04   like well if you encrypt if you [TS]

01:09:07   encrypted drive on your computer [TS]

01:09:10   it's almost like the data isn't there on [TS]

01:09:12   the drive anymore until you enter the [TS]

01:09:15   password to like she move all of the [TS]

01:09:17   bits back around into a readable fashion [TS]

01:09:19   so it's it's not like someone can crack [TS]

01:09:22   into it like you can break into a safe [TS]

01:09:24   and retrieve the thing like encryption [TS]

01:09:26   because of the magic of mathematics like [TS]

01:09:28   it makes this stuff not there until the [TS]

01:09:31   password is provided like there's [TS]

01:09:33   there's nothing to break you're [TS]

01:09:35   splitting hairs now that I mean that's [TS]

01:09:36   like if I had a completely unbreakable [TS]

01:09:39   safe with a million dollars and I could [TS]

01:09:41   say well the million dollars isn't [TS]

01:09:42   really there because the skin is an [TS]

01:09:43   unbreakable safe but there's no physical [TS]

01:09:45   say that you could build its unbreakable [TS]

01:09:47   well you could argue there's no form of [TS]

01:09:50   encryption of the data that's [TS]

01:09:52   unbreakable to I don't know but see this [TS]

01:09:54   is your assumption you're so now but [TS]

01:09:56   that encryption is unbreakable [TS]

01:09:57   I am saying that like my understanding [TS]

01:09:59   of this is that if if you if you [TS]

01:10:02   encrypted drive it with a secure enough [TS]

01:10:05   password [TS]

01:10:06   the only way to get that password is to [TS]

01:10:08   brute force it and like all of the [TS]

01:10:10   computing technology in the world will [TS]

01:10:11   not let you do that [TS]

01:10:12   basically you're saying to me you do [TS]

01:10:14   have faith in modern encryption barring [TS]

01:10:17   people having password 123 or right yeah [TS]

01:10:20   I think stupid you do have faith in [TS]

01:10:22   encryption but and fair enough fair [TS]

01:10:25   enough maybe you're right maybe I don't [TS]

01:10:27   know that encryption i guess a bit of an [TS]

01:10:29   elephant in the room and I don't know if [TS]

01:10:31   more has come out about this or you you [TS]

01:10:33   have your own theory but the the FBI did [TS]

01:10:36   suddenly saying this said their do you [TS]

01:10:39   know San Bernardino case ma'am they [TS]

01:10:42   suddenly said I we've got into the phone [TS]

01:10:44   now I had to get into it so this is the [TS]

01:10:47   it the other issue that i'm not touching [TS]

01:10:49   on in the video because I'm trying to [TS]

01:10:52   keep it like oh we're in the Platonic [TS]

01:10:54   ideal of encrypting a phone right like [TS]

01:10:56   that that is the realm in which my video [TS]

01:10:58   exists [TS]

01:10:59   yeah right but there is a totally [TS]

01:11:01   separate unrelated issue which is how [TS]

01:11:04   secure can a particular company make a [TS]

01:11:08   particular model of phone and that is [TS]

01:11:12   the question which i'm not talking about [TS]

01:11:13   because the answer is like there have [TS]

01:11:15   been tons of security exploits with [TS]

01:11:18   apple stuff and android phones over the [TS]

01:11:20   years and various models of phones like [TS]

01:11:22   they are no stranger to various ways of [TS]

01:11:25   people breaking into their particular [TS]

01:11:28   phones right like that that definitely [TS]

01:11:31   exists and apple overtime has i will [TS]

01:11:35   just speak about because that's the one [TS]

01:11:36   I'm more familiar with but Apple [TS]

01:11:37   overtime has tried to increase the [TS]

01:11:39   security of their phones and if you want [TS]

01:11:42   to read a document which I think exists [TS]

01:11:45   at the intersection of fascinating and [TS]

01:11:48   deadly boring apple makes a lot of their [TS]

01:11:51   security documents available online and [TS]

01:11:54   i was reading through a bunch of these [TS]

01:11:56   where they talk about how their security [TS]

01:11:58   systems work and like they have such a [TS]

01:12:01   difficult problem because the example i [TS]

01:12:04   was using before where you are an [TS]

01:12:06   individual on your own computer [TS]

01:12:08   attempting to encrypt your own files [TS]

01:12:11   against very straightforward you can do [TS]

01:12:13   that with with available software but [TS]

01:12:15   Apple is in this difficult position of [TS]

01:12:17   like they want to sell you a device that [TS]

01:12:21   they want to be able to remotely update [TS]

01:12:24   to make changes to write and in which [TS]

01:12:27   you are also going to put on your data [TS]

01:12:30   like that's an incredibly difficult [TS]

01:12:32   thing to do like they want your data to [TS]

01:12:35   be secure on the phone while also they [TS]

01:12:39   have the ability to remotely change the [TS]

01:12:42   software on the phone like it never [TS]

01:12:44   really occurred to me before reading [TS]

01:12:45   through some of the security documents [TS]

01:12:46   but that is a hell of a hard problem to [TS]

01:12:48   solve and it's fascinating like all of [TS]

01:12:51   the ways that they have tried to go [TS]

01:12:53   about this like they you know each phone [TS]

01:12:56   has like this randomly burned in series [TS]

01:12:58   of on and off transistors that are [TS]

01:13:00   use is like this local thing to encrypt [TS]

01:13:02   the files and they combine that with [TS]

01:13:04   like data from your fingerprint like [TS]

01:13:06   they do they are doing so much crazy [TS]

01:13:08   stuff to try to prevent them prevent [TS]

01:13:12   Apple to prevent anybody else from being [TS]

01:13:14   able to access the data on the phone [TS]

01:13:16   except you and it's so hard especially [TS]

01:13:19   when you consider like most people are [TS]

01:13:20   using a 4-digit pin on their phone [TS]

01:13:22   so it's it's a fascinating problem that [TS]

01:13:24   they have but because their situation is [TS]

01:13:26   not straightforward because they are [TS]

01:13:29   putting out into the world these phones [TS]

01:13:31   that they also want some level of access [TS]

01:13:32   to this is one of the reasons why there [TS]

01:13:34   are particular security flaws in the [TS]

01:13:38   phones that do allow people to get [TS]

01:13:40   access like Apple tries to fix them as [TS]

01:13:42   much as they can they're always trying [TS]

01:13:43   to make the phones more secure with each [TS]

01:13:45   generation but they're they're just [TS]

01:13:48   doing a thing that's going to be [TS]

01:13:49   fundamentally flawed in some scenarios [TS]

01:13:51   and so again I don't really want to get [TS]

01:13:55   into someone like the details of this [TS]

01:13:57   particular case but i'll just say that [TS]

01:14:00   like it came up because that particular [TS]

01:14:02   phone the iphone 5c had some particular [TS]

01:14:06   security flaws that the FBI wanted Apple [TS]

01:14:10   to exploit right and that had been a [TS]

01:14:12   newer phone like oh we we solve those [TS]

01:14:15   security problems that can no longer be [TS]

01:14:17   fixed the this to me is two different [TS]

01:14:19   questions like is encryption a thing [TS]

01:14:22   that that exists that can be [TS]

01:14:25   theoretically unbreakable [TS]

01:14:26   yes can Apple make a phone that is [TS]

01:14:30   perfectly always unbreakable in all [TS]

01:14:33   scenarios the answer the questions so [TS]

01:14:36   far is like no but they're always [TS]

01:14:38   getting better at that like they're [TS]

01:14:40   trying to move more and more toward that [TS]

01:14:43   direction like they they are clearly [TS]

01:14:44   trying to close off more and more of [TS]

01:14:48   people's data from themselves from [TS]

01:14:50   anybody being able to access it but I [TS]

01:14:52   really think those are two very [TS]

01:14:53   different questions this episode of [TS]

01:14:57   Hello internet is brought to you by [TS]

01:14:58   backblaze which again quite frankly I'm [TS]

01:15:02   always a little bit surprised that back [TS]

01:15:04   plays keeps buying these ads because it [TS]

01:15:06   means that you listeners there are still [TS]

01:15:09   so many of you who keeps signing up with [TS]

01:15:12   backblaze [TS]

01:15:13   because you are living with unprotected [TS]

01:15:15   data just sitting on your hard drives [TS]

01:15:17   waiting to disappear at any moment I [TS]

01:15:20   don't know how many times I have to keep [TS]

01:15:21   telling you if if you don't have online [TS]

01:15:23   backup you are crazy you are just living [TS]

01:15:25   a wild reckless life inviting digital [TS]

01:15:29   disaster in if this is you go to [TS]

01:15:32   backpage.com / hello internet right now [TS]

01:15:35   and sign up for unlimited on throttle [TS]

01:15:39   back up for just five dollars a month [TS]

01:15:42   these guys are the total experts they [TS]

01:15:45   have over 150 petabytes of data backed [TS]

01:15:48   up they restored 10 billion files for [TS]

01:15:51   their customers if you're away from your [TS]

01:15:53   computer and you need to just get access [TS]

01:15:55   to one file this is something that you [TS]

01:15:57   can totally do I have done this so many [TS]

01:16:00   times for video projects that i have [TS]

01:16:03   archived on this huge hard drive that [TS]

01:16:07   sitting next to me here now [TS]

01:16:08   that stuff's not in my regular sinking [TS]

01:16:11   system but i can get access to it [TS]

01:16:13   through backblaze if I'm somewhere else [TS]

01:16:15   and I need to get an asset file from a [TS]

01:16:16   video it's just it's fantastic [TS]

01:16:18   now since we've been talking about [TS]

01:16:19   encryption one of the little features [TS]

01:16:21   that backblaze has is if you are [TS]

01:16:24   extremely concerned about your digital [TS]

01:16:27   security in the way that I am [TS]

01:16:29   backblaze has the option where if you [TS]

01:16:32   know what you're doing you can enter a [TS]

01:16:35   private encryption key [TS]

01:16:37   this means that all of the data that's [TS]

01:16:39   uploaded to backblaze even if say oh I [TS]

01:16:43   don't know some government issued a [TS]

01:16:45   warrant saying that they wanted access [TS]

01:16:47   to all of your digital backups there's [TS]

01:16:50   nothing backblaze can give them they can [TS]

01:16:52   hand over the encrypted files but tough [TS]

01:16:55   luck [TS]

01:16:55   now this is for experts only if you are [TS]

01:16:59   going to enable this feature you really [TS]

01:17:02   better know what you're doing because if [TS]

01:17:04   you lose your private encryption key and [TS]

01:17:06   your house burns down and as I have [TS]

01:17:09   learned disasters always come in more [TS]

01:17:11   than one you are going to be totally out [TS]

01:17:13   of luck you will not be able to restore [TS]

01:17:15   your files there is nothing backblaze is [TS]

01:17:17   going to be able to help you with that [TS]

01:17:19   is the flipside of security but i really [TS]

01:17:23   like that back plays even has this as [TS]

01:17:26   an option for the super duper privacy [TS]

01:17:30   concerned once again it just shows these [TS]

01:17:33   guys are pros [TS]

01:17:35   again I cannot emphasize this enough if [TS]

01:17:38   you are still listening to me and you [TS]

01:17:41   don't have online backup on your [TS]

01:17:43   computer you need to go to backpage.com [TS]

01:17:46   / hello internet right now and sign up [TS]

01:17:50   for their five dollars a month per [TS]

01:17:52   computer for unlimited on throttled back [TS]

01:17:56   up their trial is risk free no credit [TS]

01:17:59   card required you have nothing to lose [TS]

01:18:02   except all of your data if you don't [TS]

01:18:06   sign up thanks to backblaze for [TS]

01:18:08   supporting the show you said one other [TS]

01:18:11   thing in your second video which unless [TS]

01:18:15   i misunderstood [TS]

01:18:17   mmm i disagree with in your second video [TS]

01:18:20   about how important our phones are to us [TS]

01:18:23   know you made it you made the point that [TS]

01:18:25   given the choice between allowing [TS]

01:18:27   someone to read your mind or read [TS]

01:18:29   through all the contents of your find em [TS]

01:18:32   you think reading the mind is the better [TS]

01:18:35   option [TS]

01:18:37   I think under certain circumstances yes [TS]

01:18:39   yeah I do think that I think that's only [TS]

01:18:43   true under very very limited [TS]

01:18:44   circumstances and I like I can't agree [TS]

01:18:47   with you I think that was a slightly [TS]

01:18:49   inflammatory and ridiculous thing to say [TS]

01:18:52   why do you think it's ridiculous because [TS]

01:18:56   someone being able to read all the [TS]

01:18:59   contents of your mind is far more [TS]

01:19:01   revealing and potentially damaging and [TS]

01:19:05   i'm assuming damage limitation was the [TS]

01:19:07   premise of the question and far more [TS]

01:19:09   damaging than someone reading the [TS]

01:19:11   contents of your phone and I think you [TS]

01:19:13   agree because yeah you have that sound [TS]

01:19:16   about you i'm trying to think about how [TS]

01:19:18   to have to bring a brady over to my side [TS]

01:19:20   here era but i think this is there's a [TS]

01:19:23   fundamental problem which is that I am a [TS]

01:19:27   very present and future oriented person [TS]

01:19:31   and I think you are much more of a past [TS]

01:19:34   oriented person [TS]

01:19:36   and i have a hell of a hard time [TS]

01:19:39   remembering lots of things in my own [TS]

01:19:40   life I think this is so much stuff that [TS]

01:19:43   I just forget all the time like my wife [TS]

01:19:45   constantly comments on this about how [TS]

01:19:47   things that happened a year ago from my [TS]

01:19:49   perspective it's like they never [TS]

01:19:50   happened ever like wet when did this [TS]

01:19:52   occur i have no idea [TS]

01:19:53   and so I feel like my mind might be [TS]

01:19:55   particularly perhaps unusually devoid of [TS]

01:19:59   records right this is not the whole lot [TS]

01:20:01   stored in there that it's much more like [TS]

01:20:03   oh what's going on right now of course [TS]

01:20:05   like people have thoughts like there are [TS]

01:20:07   things that you don't want other people [TS]

01:20:08   to like hear that you're the butt of [TS]

01:20:10   course the sub focalized voice in your [TS]

01:20:12   head is is talking all the time now but [TS]

01:20:15   I can honestly say that would I rather [TS]

01:20:17   have someone read my mind or read my [TS]

01:20:19   phone i think i would rather have [TS]

01:20:21   someone read my mind [TS]

01:20:22   your phone has just so many records of [TS]

01:20:25   absolutely everything in your life that [TS]

01:20:27   you don't even know what's in your phone [TS]

01:20:30   like what would embarrassing stuff isn't [TS]

01:20:32   that's crazy great that's crazy [TS]

01:20:35   let me let you look at the extreme [TS]

01:20:37   criminal example fair strap say you were [TS]

01:20:41   accused of some terrible heist in whom [TS]

01:20:46   the diamond heist in the centre of [TS]

01:20:48   London and the police have got you in a [TS]

01:20:50   cell and I say gray can we read your [TS]

01:20:52   mind or can we read your phone [TS]

01:20:54   well have I committed the heist yes [TS]

01:20:57   you've committed the whole cast of [TS]

01:20:58   computerized the communities like this [TS]

01:20:59   is overhead what's the situation here [TS]

01:21:01   that you could now you're not going to [TS]

01:21:04   forget that you committed the highest [TS]

01:21:06   you might you might forget where you [TS]

01:21:08   were on april two 2014 when you met with [TS]

01:21:12   me to Planet em but you're not gonna [TS]

01:21:14   forget you did it so when they use their [TS]

01:21:16   incredible mind-reading probe that [TS]

01:21:19   borrowed from death theta mu they're [TS]

01:21:21   gonna know straight away they're gonna [TS]

01:21:23   say the first thing i'll ask you this [TS]

01:21:24   did you do the highest your brain will [TS]

01:21:26   say yes and and then you're after jail [TS]

01:21:29   it was awful [TS]

01:21:31   yeah whereas it's very unlikely you have [TS]

01:21:33   written in your phone i did the highest [TS]

01:21:35   there'll be lots and lots of evidence i [TS]

01:21:37   was at this place at this time I was at [TS]

01:21:39   this place at this time [TS]

01:21:40   here are the blueprints of the building [TS]

01:21:42   here at here or this his discussion [TS]

01:21:44   about where Atkins here's me looking at [TS]

01:21:46   websites about selling diamonds [TS]

01:21:48   there's gonna be a ton of circumstance [TS]

01:21:49   actual evidence that they can use to [TS]

01:21:51   build up the case against you but [TS]

01:21:53   nothing more powerful than your brain [TS]

01:21:55   just saying yes i did a little like with [TS]

01:21:58   this perfect breeding machine so [TS]

01:21:59   straightaway [TS]

01:22:00   I've got you by reading in mind [TS]

01:22:02   regardless of all this evidence and also [TS]

01:22:04   so I think the criminal example just [TS]

01:22:07   folks to pieces because no one forgets [TS]

01:22:09   their criminal and I and just to be [TS]

01:22:10   clear i agree with you there [TS]

01:22:12   i I'm not gonna I'm not gonna take the [TS]

01:22:14   opposite position that like if I am [TS]

01:22:16   actually a diamond hyster then yes I [TS]

01:22:19   would rather have someone look at the [TS]

01:22:21   phone then have my own brain and play [TS]

01:22:25   back the memory of like here's me doing [TS]

01:22:27   this diamond heights now let's say [TS]

01:22:29   you're talking about like just your [TS]

01:22:31   friend like are you going to let me read [TS]

01:22:33   your mind gray or are you gonna let me [TS]

01:22:35   look at your fine and if i look at your [TS]

01:22:36   phone I'll see all the texts and emails [TS]

01:22:39   you sent to your friends and family [TS]

01:22:40   saying our brain is really pissing me [TS]

01:22:42   off today and they're all those [TS]

01:22:43   embarrassing things right that you don't [TS]

01:22:45   want me to say and you've even feel and [TS]

01:22:47   you forgotten you even set the right of [TS]

01:22:48   course like you you forgotten someday [TS]

01:22:50   you pissed off at me two years ago it [TS]

01:22:52   would be really embarrassing if I then [TS]

01:22:53   read it because you don't even feel that [TS]

01:22:55   way anymore you but I still think it's [TS]

01:22:57   much more damaging if I'm able to go [TS]

01:22:59   into your brain and find out your true [TS]

01:23:02   real feelings like I don't like the way [TS]

01:23:04   he looks so I don't like the way he [TS]

01:23:06   smells or you know because that's also [TS]

01:23:08   more truth if i look at your phone I'll [TS]

01:23:10   have my feelings hurt but at least I [TS]

01:23:13   could tell myself I would like that was [TS]

01:23:15   two years ago and I was big bit of a [TS]

01:23:17   dick that day so fair enough but if i [TS]

01:23:19   can go straight into your brain and know [TS]

01:23:21   your innermost feelings and your deepest [TS]

01:23:24   thoughts that's much more potentially [TS]

01:23:26   hurtful or private and sure you can't [TS]

01:23:32   remember little details but that's the [TS]

01:23:33   core of who you are in your brain and [TS]

01:23:35   you can tell me it changes over time and [TS]

01:23:37   that but i think that's much more [TS]

01:23:39   damaging our can't see a circumstance [TS]

01:23:41   where I think being able to read my mind [TS]

01:23:45   would be less damaging than being able [TS]

01:23:47   to read my fine i certainly don't want [TS]

01:23:48   people to read my phone will and you're [TS]

01:23:50   right i forgot her more than half the [TS]

01:23:52   stuff in it and it would be really [TS]

01:23:53   embarrassing but being able to get into [TS]

01:23:55   my brain [TS]

01:23:56   we're all my deepest darkest thoughts [TS]

01:23:58   are things I would never even right into [TS]

01:24:00   a phone and [TS]

01:24:01   I don't want people going in there so no [TS]

01:24:05   I I genuinely feel if we were sitting at [TS]

01:24:07   the pub and I could hand you my phone or [TS]

01:24:08   hand you my brain I'd rather hand you my [TS]

01:24:10   brain [TS]

01:24:11   it's pretty interesting guy I feel like [TS]

01:24:13   yeah go ahead look through like [TS]

01:24:15   obviously they'd be embarrassing stuff [TS]

01:24:17   in my brain but I feel like the the [TS]

01:24:19   phone you know again assuming that you [TS]

01:24:22   were able to like understand everything [TS]

01:24:25   on the phone in the same way that you [TS]

01:24:26   are able to understand everything on the [TS]

01:24:28   brain i feel like there's potentially [TS]

01:24:30   way worse stuff on the phone that I [TS]

01:24:31   can't even remember or think about it [TS]

01:24:34   like you said stuff that is not even [TS]

01:24:36   relevance now but could somehow be [TS]

01:24:38   damaging like it just feels like there's [TS]

01:24:40   so much more potential there then like [TS]

01:24:43   what's in my brain now like no I'm not a [TS]

01:24:46   whole lot i don't agree because with [TS]

01:24:49   this braid with this hypothetical [TS]

01:24:50   operating that were talking about [TS]

01:24:51   appreciating I can I can you know [TS]

01:24:53   interrogate you for what I want like [TS]

01:24:55   your opinions and feelings I am [TS]

01:24:58   presuming that i'm presuming that you [TS]

01:24:59   would have access to the state of my [TS]

01:25:02   brain in the same way that i have access [TS]

01:25:03   to the state of my brain [TS]

01:25:04   surely that's more damaging because I [TS]

01:25:06   could find out really personal things [TS]

01:25:08   about you that you would never have [TS]

01:25:10   committed to your phone before [TS]

01:25:12   yeah but i don't know like did years ago [TS]

01:25:15   me commit really personal stuff to my [TS]

01:25:17   phone [TS]

01:25:18   I don't know possibly probably i don't [TS]

01:25:20   know i'm not saying there's none of that [TS]

01:25:21   there of course there's gonna be tons [TS]

01:25:23   and tons of it but not more than the [TS]

01:25:26   ability for me just to read your mind [TS]

01:25:27   and find out what you think about [TS]

01:25:28   everything I guess what I feel here is [TS]

01:25:30   like I am more confident in the limited [TS]

01:25:34   content of my brain that I am in the [TS]

01:25:36   what seems like near-infinite content of [TS]

01:25:39   my phone it's almost like a devil you [TS]

01:25:41   know vs devil you don't know situation [TS]

01:25:43   here and if you like the phone is the [TS]

01:25:45   devil i don't know like dear god what [TS]

01:25:47   did I type into that thing three years [TS]

01:25:49   ago I have no idea but let's not let [TS]

01:25:51   anybody look at that I don't even want [TS]

01:25:53   to look at that I'd enough i should read [TS]

01:25:56   into this that you're actually just a [TS]

01:25:57   really really lovely person in your [TS]

01:25:59   brain or that you're really really [TS]

01:26:00   worried about what you would like a few [TS]

01:26:02   years ago [TS]

01:26:03   let me ask you something else about that [TS]

01:26:09   though era because all of this the [TS]

01:26:13   encryption stuff or like reading your [TS]

01:26:14   mind reading your phone [TS]

01:26:16   I feel like this is all a sideshow in [TS]

01:26:18   the same way that like the star trek [TS]

01:26:20   video was all like a sideshow to what i [TS]

01:26:21   thought was the actual point what do you [TS]

01:26:24   think about taking the phone or other [TS]

01:26:28   digital devices in your life and [TS]

01:26:30   considering them in a legal sense as an [TS]

01:26:33   extension of the self within and here i [TS]

01:26:36   want to say like let's talk about this [TS]

01:26:38   in the context of American law or like [TS]

01:26:40   you are not obligated to incriminate [TS]

01:26:42   yourself and so in some sense like that [TS]

01:26:46   is legal protection for the state of [TS]

01:26:48   your brain [TS]

01:26:49   what what do you think about [TS]

01:26:50   establishing some kind of legal [TS]

01:26:51   precedent to say like we are going to [TS]

01:26:53   decide that a person's phone is like an [TS]

01:26:57   off-board brain and this is legally [TS]

01:26:59   protected as part of the self in the [TS]

01:27:02   same way that we protect people's brains [TS]

01:27:04   as part of the self or interesting i [TS]

01:27:08   think my first instinct is no because [TS]

01:27:11   everything going into your phone is [TS]

01:27:14   still a document that paperwork who like [TS]

01:27:18   every every photo and just because we're [TS]

01:27:20   becoming a lot more prolific with their [TS]

01:27:22   creation of the paperwork doesn't make [TS]

01:27:24   them it's not paperwork so my first [TS]

01:27:27   instinct is now these are all still [TS]

01:27:28   these are also documents that can be [TS]

01:27:30   treated as separate from who we are [TS]

01:27:33   whether or not that means everyone [TS]

01:27:34   should you know whether or not it may [TS]

01:27:36   just open season on people saying them [TS]

01:27:37   is another question but it's also [TS]

01:27:39   questionable about the paper i have in [TS]

01:27:41   my cupboard you know not everyone can [TS]

01:27:43   look at that other right but we're [TS]

01:27:45   talking about it i got like in illegal [TS]

01:27:46   contact here right that we can just say [TS]

01:27:50   that you are falsely accused of a crime [TS]

01:27:52   but none-the-less like there is a new [TS]

01:27:54   somehow live in America but nonetheless [TS]

01:27:55   there's a warrant to seize all of all of [TS]

01:27:58   your documents right and and then the [TS]

01:28:00   question I think is like does that [TS]

01:28:01   include all of the documents on your [TS]

01:28:04   phone or is it just limited to the [TS]

01:28:05   documents in your house like how how far [TS]

01:28:09   can that go [TS]

01:28:10   I guess the phone could start becoming [TS]

01:28:11   quite handy refuge of the criminal [TS]

01:28:13   couldn't because phone so powerful now [TS]

01:28:15   and could hold so much that [TS]

01:28:16   you just do everything with your phone [TS]

01:28:18   and put everything in your phone [TS]

01:28:19   comfortable in the knowledge that it [TS]

01:28:22   could never be scrutinized no matter [TS]

01:28:24   what you do [TS]

01:28:25   so what you can do that with your own [TS]

01:28:28   brain now right like you know I'm sure [TS]

01:28:30   criminals in the past they have the [TS]

01:28:31   option of not committing things to paper [TS]

01:28:34   yeah I don't think criminals could use a [TS]

01:28:37   thing it to me is always one like the [TS]

01:28:39   worst argument ever look good there we [TS]

01:28:41   have tools and criminals can use tools [TS]

01:28:44   but tools are still good we don't ban [TS]

01:28:46   tools of any kind [TS]

01:28:47   it's true i'm only asking because i [TS]

01:28:49   think this is the part of the video but [TS]

01:28:52   we also don't we also don't ban the [TS]

01:28:53   police from the fingerprinting those [TS]

01:28:55   tools are checking the bloodstains on [TS]

01:28:56   the master crimes committed right right [TS]

01:28:58   and and i think that's that's where this [TS]

01:29:00   this balance comes in right of how much [TS]

01:29:04   power do we grant to authorities where [TS]

01:29:06   do we set the boundaries of personal [TS]

01:29:09   liberty like what [TS]

01:29:10   where is that edge that the reason I [TS]

01:29:13   think this is so important is is just go [TS]

01:29:15   back to the mind-reading [TS]

01:29:16   ever-so-slightly I don't think that we [TS]

01:29:19   live in a world where it is unreasonable [TS]

01:29:20   to expect that at some point we really [TS]

01:29:23   will be able to build essentially [TS]

01:29:24   mind-reading machines right or close [TS]

01:29:27   enough and then and then I think like [TS]

01:29:30   boy the American legal system has a [TS]

01:29:32   really interesting question their of if [TS]

01:29:34   we legally protect your right to not say [TS]

01:29:37   anything does that but do we legally [TS]

01:29:39   protect your right to not be in a brain [TS]

01:29:42   scanner that's an interesting question [TS]

01:29:44   am I my gut reaction is that protection [TS]

01:29:47   against self-incrimination should extend [TS]

01:29:50   to the mind just in general so that in [TS]

01:29:52   the future scenario where we do have a [TS]

01:29:54   brain reading machine [TS]

01:29:56   you should not be able to compel someone [TS]

01:29:58   to go in a brain reading machine i think [TS]

01:30:01   that counts of self-incrimination [TS]

01:30:02   yeah that was the most hesitant yes in [TS]

01:30:06   the world do you think so do you not [TS]

01:30:07   think so are we assuming a completely [TS]

01:30:10   flawless braiding machine [TS]

01:30:12   let's assume that it actually works [TS]

01:30:13   right it it works as well as as someone [TS]

01:30:16   reading a piece of paper works i guess [TS]

01:30:17   it comes down to whether or not you [TS]

01:30:19   think the the system is this legal [TS]

01:30:21   systems main goal [TS]

01:30:25   is to establish truth and then executes [TS]

01:30:30   justice or to protect people from [TS]

01:30:34   getting themselves in trouble and if [TS]

01:30:36   you've got an absolutely perfect perfect [TS]

01:30:39   hundred percent platonic brain reading [TS]

01:30:41   machine wooooo [TS]

01:30:43   well that's the end of course isn't like [TS]

01:30:44   words did you killer well that's that [TS]

01:30:46   said let's find out [TS]

01:30:48   perfect range machine yes i did killer [TS]

01:30:51   here's the circumstances [TS]

01:30:53   what you gonna do about it what's [TS]

01:30:54   justice and the only reason to sort of [TS]

01:30:57   protect the rights of the people from [TS]

01:30:58   self-incriminating is floors in the [TS]

01:31:00   legal system but you've given me a [TS]

01:31:02   flawless machine to find out what [TS]

01:31:04   happened i don't actually agree that a [TS]

01:31:07   perfect mind reading machine would be [TS]

01:31:08   the end of the legal system are you to [TS]

01:31:10   also talking about false memories or [TS]

01:31:12   because people can be wrong about the [TS]

01:31:14   state of their own mind while they're ok [TS]

01:31:16   I was sort of my platonic machine had [TS]

01:31:18   gotten around that problem right yeah [TS]

01:31:20   yeah but now you're just talking about a [TS]

01:31:22   magic machine right beginning that [TS]

01:31:24   people are are often wrong about the [TS]

01:31:26   state of of their own yet right which is [TS]

01:31:28   which starts get you into such strange [TS]

01:31:30   things and you know and it's one of [TS]

01:31:32   these cases where when high-profile [TS]

01:31:35   crimes occur it is not unusual for [TS]

01:31:38   police to get tons of just confessions [TS]

01:31:40   from people or places like oh I did this [TS]

01:31:41   crime [TS]

01:31:42   oh no you didn't you just crazy right [TS]

01:31:44   here a lunatic you think you did this [TS]

01:31:46   but you didn't do this so yeah machine [TS]

01:31:48   isn't magic but it is a perfect brain [TS]

01:31:50   reading machine and that's a different [TS]

01:31:52   thing I mean what a perfect legal at [TS]

01:31:54   justice system create a situation where [TS]

01:31:57   people didn't remain silent everyone [TS]

01:31:59   just calmly without pressure told what [TS]

01:32:02   they think their version of the stories [TS]

01:32:03   and then people came to decisions i mean [TS]

01:32:06   this current situation where people can [TS]

01:32:08   just keep don't and not incriminate [TS]

01:32:10   himself who is is there to protect them [TS]

01:32:13   from all of the pressures that are there [TS]

01:32:18   and all the floors in the legal system [TS]

01:32:19   there so with a more idealized ecosystem [TS]

01:32:23   not have people remaining silent they [TS]

01:32:26   would tell their version of events and [TS]

01:32:27   then this amazing judge would hear [TS]

01:32:29   everyone's version of events told calmly [TS]

01:32:31   and rationally and fairly and can weigh [TS]

01:32:33   them and look at the evidence [TS]

01:32:37   it feels like the people's right to [TS]

01:32:38   remain silent which I am in favor of who [TS]

01:32:41   is there because we haven't is there [TS]

01:32:44   because we have a flawed system who and [TS]

01:32:47   now York your sort of playing fantasy [TS]

01:32:49   the ecosystems and removing all the [TS]

01:32:50   flaws and I think if we have all these [TS]

01:32:52   floors being removed this right to [TS]

01:32:55   remain silent [TS]

01:32:56   I don't see the need for anymore yes I I [TS]

01:33:00   don't think I'm playing fantasy legal [TS]

01:33:01   system [TS]

01:33:02   my concern is that you have a legal [TS]

01:33:03   system which is still like today you [TS]

01:33:07   know it's it's it's made of people and [TS]

01:33:09   you have trials and you have lawyers and [TS]

01:33:11   have like all these conflicting [TS]

01:33:12   interests but you just happen to have a [TS]

01:33:14   piece of technology that allows you to [TS]

01:33:15   read the thoughts and contents of a [TS]

01:33:17   person's mind with this with the fluid [TS]

01:33:20   system just one new piece of technology [TS]

01:33:21   obviously i think people should still [TS]

01:33:23   have the right to remain silent [TS]

01:33:24   ok ok that's yeah okay so i will type [TS]

01:33:28   sorry i was taking fantasy legal system [TS]

01:33:29   to extremes that [TS]

01:33:30   yeah i mean i agree with you in a [TS]

01:33:32   perfect world we have no problems as I i [TS]

01:33:35   agree with agree with that point but I'm [TS]

01:33:38   just thinking like an actual an actual [TS]

01:33:41   progression of today's technology like [TS]

01:33:42   that they're there was reading around [TS]

01:33:43   some people were saying like there's [TS]

01:33:44   some super interesting stuff about just [TS]

01:33:46   how the the resolution of brain scanning [TS]

01:33:48   technology is increasing over time and [TS]

01:33:50   that there are some extremely [TS]

01:33:52   rudimentary examples of trying to pull [TS]

01:33:56   things like color thoughts out of a [TS]

01:33:58   person's brain like someone's thinking a [TS]

01:34:00   color like you can identify what color [TS]

01:34:02   their thinking by brain scan [TS]

01:34:03   I just some just some really weird stuff [TS]

01:34:05   like that it's like ok well I can see [TS]

01:34:07   where this is going like it's not in [TS]

01:34:09   principle impossible to do so it seems [TS]

01:34:12   like I think it's inevitable will end up [TS]

01:34:14   with something that can at least be some [TS]

01:34:16   kind of brain scanner at some point and [TS]

01:34:18   that's why i genuinely genuinely worried [TS]

01:34:22   about this stuff but the but the related [TS]

01:34:24   thing is this idea about like where does [TS]

01:34:26   if if as you do you agree that that [TS]

01:34:32   presume we don't have a perfect legal [TS]

01:34:34   system there is still room and still [TS]

01:34:36   reason for the protection against [TS]

01:34:38   self-incrimination then I also think we [TS]

01:34:41   are going to very rapidly get into a [TS]

01:34:43   world where [TS]

01:34:44   you have to start wondering what are the [TS]

01:34:47   boundaries of the South right where do [TS]

01:34:50   we draw that line about what counts as [TS]

01:34:53   self-incrimination and I thought like it [TS]

01:34:56   was just by coincidence but people but a [TS]

01:34:58   bunch of people sent me that the Devi [TS]

01:35:00   that video went up there was a news [TS]

01:35:02   story about someone who had a computer [TS]

01:35:05   chip implanted in their brain that [TS]

01:35:08   allows them they were an amputee but [TS]

01:35:10   that allowed them to control of an arm [TS]

01:35:13   like just with their thoughts and people [TS]

01:35:17   are pointing out like well that this is [TS]

01:35:19   actually a super interesting case like [TS]

01:35:22   could you have a warrant for the [TS]

01:35:25   information recorded on that computer [TS]

01:35:27   chip in that person's brain obviously [TS]

01:35:29   right now it's not storing or recording [TS]

01:35:31   a lot of information but it's an [TS]

01:35:33   interesting legal question could you [TS]

01:35:36   write a warrant to say please turn over [TS]

01:35:38   the information on that computer chip in [TS]

01:35:40   that person's brain and like my gut [TS]

01:35:43   feeling is no like that that chip is [TS]

01:35:46   part of the self of that person its it [TS]

01:35:49   is not a separate entity it is not the [TS]

01:35:52   equivalent of a piece of paper lying on [TS]

01:35:54   someone's desk I I think that's [TS]

01:35:56   different and I and I also feel like we [TS]

01:36:00   use our phones and our digital devices [TS]

01:36:02   so much now as off-board brains that I i [TS]

01:36:06   really do think the amount that we use [TS]

01:36:09   them inches them into this category of [TS]

01:36:11   legal protection for the sound and I [TS]

01:36:13   think it's important to set this [TS]

01:36:15   precedent like for the future i really [TS]

01:36:19   do think like this is going to be a [TS]

01:36:21   legal question in some court in some [TS]

01:36:24   country in the nearish future about [TS]

01:36:26   trying to subpoena information for a [TS]

01:36:29   piece of technology that is like in a [TS]

01:36:31   person is going to happen is going to [TS]

01:36:34   happen [TS]

01:36:35   I mean I can't speak to the chip in [TS]

01:36:38   Chipping the person that is the thing is [TS]

01:36:40   if I was accused of a crime 15 years ago [TS]

01:36:43   mhm police could have gone through a few [TS]

01:36:45   letters and gone through a few photo [TS]

01:36:48   albums with solid printed photos stuck [TS]

01:36:51   in them and I wouldn't have found out a [TS]

01:36:53   lot to help them and now they could go [TS]

01:36:55   through my phone and find a million [TS]

01:36:57   photos I've taken everyday wear and look [TS]

01:36:59   at a million emails i've sent and and [TS]

01:37:02   look at all my movements and and now a [TS]

01:37:03   lot more so obviously what's in my phone [TS]

01:37:06   is a lot more incriminating them what [TS]

01:37:09   existed 10 years ago [TS]

01:37:11   hmm the question is at what point did at [TS]

01:37:16   what point between that scratchy old [TS]

01:37:18   photo album and the letters and my shiny [TS]

01:37:20   fine with all the information at what [TS]

01:37:21   point was the threshold crossed where it [TS]

01:37:24   became part of me define became part of [TS]

01:37:26   me I five it's impossible to draw that [TS]

01:37:29   line to say okay once you go over a [TS]

01:37:32   thousand photos [TS]

01:37:33   it's now maybe it's no longer a photo [TS]

01:37:36   album it's me once you've got over 2000 [TS]

01:37:40   messages [TS]

01:37:40   it's no longer documents it's now a part [TS]

01:37:44   of me you know i don't know where at [TS]

01:37:46   what point my phone became me this is [TS]

01:37:48   the classic like where is the boundary [TS]

01:37:50   problem that you run into a whole lot of [TS]

01:37:51   stuff there is no good way to answer [TS]

01:37:54   that question and I think you can make [TS]

01:37:55   that question way more difficult by [TS]

01:37:58   imagining a theoretical person who makes [TS]

01:38:02   a physical copy of every single file [TS]

01:38:04   that is on their phone right that they [TS]

01:38:06   are just a tremendous paper hoarder [TS]

01:38:07   living in a gigantic mansion filled with [TS]

01:38:10   reams and reams of paper of their GPS [TS]

01:38:13   coordinates for every second and all of [TS]

01:38:15   the messages and all of the photos and [TS]

01:38:16   all of the emails and like you know and [TS]

01:38:19   how many pages of paper you would need [TS]

01:38:20   to print out to be the equivalent of [TS]

01:38:22   like 4k 60 frames per second video [TS]

01:38:25   they've taken like you can imagine in [TS]

01:38:27   theory a person living in this mansion [TS]

01:38:29   with all of this stuff all of this crap [TS]

01:38:31   and then but my feeling is like over [TS]

01:38:35   those papers aren't them right that [TS]

01:38:36   that's my initial feeling even though [TS]

01:38:38   all of the information would [TS]

01:38:39   theoretically be the same that somehow [TS]

01:38:41   like oh but that seems different [TS]

01:38:43   yeah does that make any sense no that [TS]

01:38:45   doesn't make any sense at all but my [TS]

01:38:47   emotional reaction is that it's somehow [TS]

01:38:50   different when it is all contained on a [TS]

01:38:53   device that is never far away that is [TS]

01:38:56   with you all the time that that is [TS]

01:38:58   different somehow [TS]

01:39:01   but I'm also willing to accept that we [TS]

01:39:03   may in the future state look back on [TS]

01:39:05   this and say oh no the dividing line is [TS]

01:39:07   when the devices started going in our [TS]

01:39:09   bodies right that L and iphone obviously [TS]

01:39:12   the iphone isn't really an extension of [TS]

01:39:14   the self that which is ridiculous [TS]

01:39:15   hyperbole but this right this chip in my [TS]

01:39:19   head which is connected to the internet [TS]

01:39:21   with which I can store memories and [TS]

01:39:22   download new thoughts like that chip in [TS]

01:39:24   my head obviously is part of myself in [TS]

01:39:27   the way that a phone isn't like maybe [TS]

01:39:29   that's a more natural more natural [TS]

01:39:31   boundary that does seem like crossing [TS]

01:39:34   the threshold into kind of sacred ground [TS]

01:39:36   doesn't at once it's once it's [TS]

01:39:38   physically once it's physically touching [TS]

01:39:41   a at every second [TS]

01:39:44   maybe that helps maybe that will help [TS]

01:39:45   draw a line yeah but what if you take an [TS]

01:39:48   iphone to your head [TS]

01:39:49   checkmate [TS]