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H.I. #60: The Beautiful Game

 

  get ready get ready get ready I'm ready [TS]

  and I was talking to me I wasn't talking [TS]

  to you I watched your Star Trek [TS]

  transporter video and at the time I [TS]

  thought is this a little bit of bollocks [TS]

  like all your videos it was it was it [TS]

  was well written and thought-provoking [TS]

  and yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah what do you [TS]

  mean it was bollocks that what do you [TS]

  really like the first half of cool i'm [TS]

  mostly like em you know we've discussed [TS]

  transporters before obviously you [TS]

  discuss transporters with everybody [TS]

  anyone who knows you know you talk about [TS]

  transporters all the time yeah this is [TS]

  regular dinner table conversation if you [TS]

  have me over at the house is like [TS]

  there's a few things that are going to [TS]

  come up [TS]

  free will is going to come up yet the [TS]

  question of do you know why American [TS]

  Indians got sick with the Europeans [TS]

  didn't get saying that they're going to [TS]

  cut love it and then do you think that [TS]

  the transporter is a suicide machine [TS]

  those are like your three guaranteed [TS]

  great conversation starter [TS]

  yeah so the transport of things or I [TS]

  mean you know besides the fact it's a [TS]

  fictional machine but you know that's [TS]

  our i'm going to go with that I'm going [TS]

  to go with that and it is an interesting [TS]

  conundrum if two of you exist you know [TS]

  this is this is a classic conundrum [TS]

  prestige was great for that wasn't a [TS]

  great movie for that I still haven't [TS]

  seen it but I feel like I know that [TS]

  whole movie because everyone has told me [TS]

  every part of it that's a great movie [TS]

  great thanks twitter spoilers well you [TS]

  know I had eventually when the film's [TS]

  been around long enough you can you've [TS]

  got to just say me a copper I should [TS]

  have seen it by now and works with this [TS]

  before but the last part of your video [TS]

  where you talk about dying every time [TS]

  you go to sleep well hang on let's just [TS]

  let's just give me a yes or no answer [TS]

  here do you think you die every time you [TS]

  go to sleep [TS]

  this is the part where you think I'm [TS]

  just being silly at the end [TS]

  no I don't think you're being silly i [TS]

  just want you and you haven't given me a [TS]

  yes or no just give me a yes or no then [TS]

  you can say whatever you want [TS]

  do you think you and I and other people [TS]

  die every time we go to sleep [TS]

  note that you can only say one of two [TS]

  words next [TS]

  that's not how this works that is not [TS]

  one of the words yes or no [TS]

  okay listen listen oh I said afterwards [TS]

  you can say whatever you want and you [TS]

  can do all your clarifying and all that [TS]

  but the next word I want out of your [TS]

  mouth is a yes or a no it's unknowable [TS]

  Brady wrong bro and I said what do you [TS]

  think it's not unknowable what you think [TS]

  you know what you think because you're [TS]

  thinking it [TS]

  no easy now easy there you have you come [TS]

  to help you have a false premise in your [TS]

  head you assume that i have a clear [TS]

  opinion on this topic right you guys [TS]

  doing this at a time when we were [TS]

  actually answer you are doing exactly [TS]

  what your keys to your guns germs and [TS]

  steel a pilot's of doing in the last [TS]

  podcast episode where you said they [TS]

  avoid questions and reframe the debate I [TS]

  i do not think we die every time we go [TS]

  to sleep and this how if there's this [TS]

  break in the stream of consciousness [TS]

  then we are dead is ridiculous [TS]

  it is a ridiculous definition of death [TS]

  maybe I don't know but it is a [TS]

  ridiculous suggestion and I don't think [TS]

  it is ridiculous [TS]

  I genuinely do not think it is [TS]

  ridiculous well great i'm here to tell [TS]

  you it is i mean how are we defining [TS]

  breaks in consciousness are there like [TS]

  plank second breaks in their [TS]

  consciousness when we look from one [TS]

  place to another in which we momentarily [TS]

  died are we dying every few planks [TS]

  seconds when out when our [TS]

  consciousnesses disengaged for a [TS]

  nanosecond like well where are we [TS]

  drawing lines here if we're drawing of [TS]

  the death line sleep [TS]

  we've entered the world of [TS]

  ridiculousness well I mean look look if [TS]

  someone's asleep and shoot them in the [TS]

  head [TS]

  have I not killed them because they were [TS]

  alive at the time [TS]

  let's see Kevin you're now you know [TS]

  trying to frame this like it's murder [TS]

  right like you've killed this person and [TS]

  you should go to prison for it [TS]

  oh that's even better if i give someone [TS]

  a sleeping pill over killed them [TS]

  it's just really just ridiculous its [TS]

  history [TS]

  it's not ridiculous it is not it is not [TS]

  ridiculous I I reject your claim that it [TS]

  is just absurd it is just ridiculous [TS]

  I i think this is one of many very [TS]

  interesting questions that are related [TS]

  to the nature of of consciousness the [TS]

  consciousness is this strange like [TS]

  inexplicable phenomenon of the universe [TS]

  that just doesn't make any sense and [TS]

  makes the less sense makes less sense [TS]

  the more you think about it right you [TS]

  can start driving yourself crazy when [TS]

  you start thinking about consciousness [TS]

  yeah but I think you're doing a [TS]

  disservice to the debate when you say [TS]

  something silly like when we go to sleep [TS]

  with dead because that that's like [TS]

  you're undermining yourself it's like [TS]

  you're dressing up in a clown suit to [TS]

  make the argument and why did alright [TS]

  and I don't and I i completely agree [TS]

  with you which it's immensely [TS]

  interesting and you posed many really [TS]

  interesting questions in the video but [TS]

  throwing some deliberately provocative [TS]

  thing out there like saying is the Grim [TS]

  Reaper coming at night and taking our [TS]

  life every night I mean that's not [TS]

  deliberately provocative I wake up in [TS]

  the morning and often have a moment of [TS]

  wondering about this like do I just have [TS]

  my memories from the previous day's or [TS]

  is this a continuous version of me like [TS]

  I don't think there's any way to know [TS]

  that's why I think like the sleep thing [TS]

  is is inseparable from the transporter [TS]

  paradox if I didn't think this sleep [TS]

  thing was connected to the transporter [TS]

  paradox [TS]

  I wouldn't have made that whole video in [TS]

  my mind the whole video was just to get [TS]

  to the point that you think is the [TS]

  provocative bit tacked onto the end to [TS]

  me like that's the thing that really [TS]

  affects my daily life [TS]

  well it must be a hard thing yet it is [TS]

  hard being me [TS]

  it's terribly difficult being me trust [TS]

  me gray you're the same guy I'd like you [TS]

  just you just to sleep [TS]

  I mean listen I don't even know if [TS]

  you're alive really like if you're [TS]

  conscious or if you're just some robot [TS]

  that I talked to write so it's like I [TS]

  can't just trust you on this [TS]

  I love that we're talking about this [TS]

  because you know what I've been and will [TS]

  probably talk about this later but I've [TS]

  been thinking a lot the last few weeks [TS]

  about the difference between us and [TS]

  computers and wife and I think and it's [TS]

  really hard to read [TS]

  hard thing to to to think about and [TS]

  arguing is you know I think I think [TS]

  people who say there's no difference [TS]

  between humans and computers actually [TS]

  have the easier easier position and the [TS]

  fact that we can sit around and wonder [TS]

  if we were dead when we're asleep I [TS]

  think that's getting close to the what [TS]

  separates us from computers just the the [TS]

  absurdity of thinking about this and [TS]

  taking it seriously is wonderful i think [TS]

  your credit humanity great it is not [TS]

  absurd to wonder about as I'm not gonna [TS]

  let you just get away with that [TS]

  just just sliding it out there like that [TS]

  i will follow this to the absurd [TS]

  conclusion that we die every nanosecond [TS]

  right that's what you were you can we're [TS]

  trying to push me out before [TS]

  yeah I will follow this to the end and [TS]

  think that it is not improbable that [TS]

  what we have is a universe which is [TS]

  divided up into like these infinite [TS]

  number of time slices each of which has [TS]

  the memories of what has come before but [TS]

  every single moment we are just a [TS]

  creature that is conscious and new with [TS]

  all of the memories yeah 10 yeah is the [TS]

  universe like a house series of nails [TS]

  and things like this [TS]

  yeah well okay and that's I think that's [TS]

  a different type III think it's maybe [TS]

  it's time to talk semantics and redefine [TS]

  what we mean by death because I think [TS]

  you're taking a very provocative word in [TS]

  death and applying it to a whole [TS]

  different discussion here now and using [TS]

  imagery like the Grim Reaper who is [TS]

  varied is is using is using the emotive [TS]

  pneus of what normal people consider [TS]

  death and injecting it into a whole [TS]

  different discussion [TS]

  how are you not anxious before you fall [TS]

  asleep sometimes like this has never [TS]

  crossed your mind that this is your last [TS]

  day you just just hop into bed like it [TS]

  like a happy Brady every time it never [TS]

  crosses your mind that our I guess this [TS]

  is my only day of existence because that [TS]

  crosses my mind all the time when it's [TS]

  bedtime [TS]

  I think it's I think it really shows [TS]

  your humanity and that warms my heart [TS]

  look at you trying to turn this around [TS]

  on me to bring you back from your trip [TS]

  your trip to the forbidden kingdom [TS]

  I wasn't even sure if you were going to [TS]

  make it back from such a mysterious [TS]

  mysterious place I thought you might be [TS]

  swept away by the mists of that land but [TS]

  you're back [TS]

  so how was i'm back and amazingly you [TS]

  took so long to edit the last broadcast [TS]

  that I had been and had returned before [TS]

  you put up the podcast saying i was [TS]

  about to go [TS]

  that's how that works these things [TS]

  aren't as scheduled now you've accepted [TS]

  the term forbidden kingdom that I'm just [TS]

  doing it to humor you but you know if [TS]

  you you know us i go on Wikipedia or [TS]

  higher dimensions that they actually [TS]

  have a page if you search forbidden [TS]

  kingdom on wikipedia it said this could [TS]

  refer to Bhutan i'm searching for [TS]

  forbidden kingdom right now there's a [TS]

  movie called The Forbidden Kingdom 2008 [TS]

  with jackie chan and gently not the film [TS]

  ok but this is the thing that comes out [TS]

  this is the title one under the [TS]

  forbidden kingdom look at offer oh yeah [TS]

  yeah okay but if I have to go to the [TS]

  disambiguation page you've already lost [TS]

  i'm not impressed i haven't no because [TS]

  I'm not saying it's like the only thing [TS]

  called if in the forbidden kingdom 1932 [TS]

  novel by Jace Lauer half I'm saying it's [TS]

  a legitimate term forbidden kingdom is [TS]

  setting in dungeons and dragons [TS]

  yeah and what's number five on the list [TS]

  a country guitar because someone's [TS]

  really imperial palace of me great Qin [TS]

  dynasty's pray it says there's time a [TS]

  country sometimes occasionally may be [TS]

  referred to as the forbidden kingdom by [TS]

  Brady that's what it's a good idea that [TS]

  is that's what it will always say on the [TS]

  wikipedia disambiguation page for [TS]

  forbidden kingdom it probably will now [TS]

  after you said that but that's right I i [TS]

  did go to Bhutan but before I went to [TS]

  Bhutan i went to India know you got in [TS]

  her my feelings about the visa process [TS]

  it's something that causes me a level of [TS]

  frustration [TS]

  so we arrived in India and I got three [TS]

  immigration quite smoothly [TS]

  m-my wife on the other hand was there [TS]

  forever and one thing you learn about [TS]

  Indian officers is there they are not [TS]

  reluctant to refer things up to their [TS]

  superior when there any doubt about [TS]

  anything [TS]

  it's a bureaucracy so my wife was there [TS]

  for quite some time and he was confused [TS]

  and he didn't know what to do and he [TS]

  went after service boss and he came back [TS]

  and went to see his boss again and came [TS]

  back and I reckon after 20 minutes maybe [TS]

  he finally with some reluctance letter [TS]

  through gave her all the stamps and then [TS]

  we went and waited [TS]

  we're waiting for air luggage and while [TS]

  we're waiting literally while we're [TS]

  waiting for the bags among the crowds of [TS]

  people the officer came back and found [TS]

  us in the crowds and said and said I [TS]

  think I made a mistake and took my wife [TS]

  back to the immigration counter like [TS]

  back through all the security took her [TS]

  back to the counter to redo all the [TS]

  stamps and the paperwork wouldn't [TS]

  explain what it was I wasn't allowed to [TS]

  go with her and I reckon it must have [TS]

  taken 30 minutes of nightmares to get to [TS]

  get through what and then we have the [TS]

  same problem when we came back in i had [TS]

  problems when I was going out where he [TS]

  didn't understand what was going on with [TS]

  my passport and he was about to go and [TS]

  see his boss and I said before you go [TS]

  and see your boss and I pointed that he [TS]

  was looking at the wrong stamp with its [TS]

  handwritten number in my passport and [TS]

  said you should be looking at that stamp [TS]

  and entering that number into your [TS]

  computer and he was like oh yeah maybe [TS]

  I'll try that when I was doing the job [TS]

  for them [TS]

  it sounds like a lovely country but we [TS]

  did go to the Taj Mahal yeah was worth [TS]

  it [TS]

  hours of people were exceeded my [TS]

  expectations one of the one of the most [TS]

  amazing places I've been [TS]

  can you go inside it you can just walk [TS]

  around the ground you can you can go [TS]

  inside that x is a bit crazy with queues [TS]

  and but you wouldn't like that part [TS]

  going inside part so if I got in here I [TS]

  don't even want to go inside the Dodger [TS]

  are gonna go in it but you don't know us [TS]

  it won't like it but you've got 20 it's [TS]

  a bit out you've gotten that far you may [TS]

  as well but it's just it's just like [TS]

  it's just as beautiful as it looks and [TS]

  other pictures and no really and it's in [TS]

  a really big setting like it's what I [TS]

  didn't realize was how lovely the [TS]

  grounds are thats in this game [TS]

  in these sort of verdant lovely gardens [TS]

  and although there's like you know tens [TS]

  of thousands of people visiting the site [TS]

  is big enough and nice enough that kind [TS]

  of soaks up the people so you don't feel [TS]

  like you in sort of crazy busy india you [TS]

  do feel like you're in you're in a [TS]

  crowded oasis for a foreign territory [TS]

  except when you get channeled into the [TS]

  building itself that is that is [TS]

  craziness but really what be really [TS]

  wonderful but then the obviously the [TS]

  main reason for the trip was going to [TS]

  the forbidden kingdom of Bhutan and I I [TS]

  could talk about return forever it was [TS]

  absolutely brilliant one of the best [TS]

  countries i've ever been to lots of [TS]

  interesting things to say and say about [TS]

  it and i'll talk about if you want but [TS]

  the one thing i really want to talk [TS]

  about that was the absolute highlight [TS]

  for me is the flight to and from return [TS]

  without doubt the most magnificent flat [TS]

  you will ever do you have to do on the [TS]

  drug air which is the national airline [TS]

  of Baton oh yeah so when I was in India [TS]

  sort of the people that were looking [TS]

  after the two or said if you want to if [TS]

  you going on the drug care it's worth [TS]

  going to the airport a few hours earlier [TS]

  than you should just to get a seat on [TS]

  the left-hand side of the plane who when [TS]

  you're flying from Delhi to pero which [TS]

  is where the airport is in return [TS]

  because that's the side or the Himalayas [TS]

  are on who and basically the whole [TS]

  flight just skirts along the edge of the [TS]

  Himalayas past you know I think three of [TS]

  the top five mountains in the world five [TS]

  highest mountains in the world including [TS]

  Everest are all along the hall outside [TS]

  the bank so we got to we go to the [TS]

  airport very very early like three in [TS]

  the morning because I there's no way I [TS]

  wasn't gonna get that safe and we got [TS]

  the state we got the state on the [TS]

  left-hand side i was really excited I'm [TS]

  not always that into in-flight [TS]

  entertainment sometimes I watch TV shows [TS]

  and movies and things like that I swear [TS]

  my eyes were glued to the window for the [TS]

  whole area and a half that we were [TS]

  flying like it was just amazing I [TS]

  couldn't take my eyes off of just going [TS]

  just like the Himmel it was like the [TS]

  ultimate screensaver just watching the [TS]

  Himalayas go past that you could reach [TS]

  out and touch the mountains and I was [TS]

  going crazy taking photos and then when [TS]

  Everest was coming i was so excited and [TS]

  it was clear-headed [TS]

  out uh-huh you couldn't see the top of [TS]

  Everest but it was still amazing still [TS]

  so these amazing mountains I'm just [TS]

  pulling it up on my computer here with a [TS]

  3d topographical map and it looks like a [TS]

  hell of an amazing flight if you are on [TS]

  the left-hand side of the plane like I [TS]

  don't see why along this route like now [TS]

  be on the left right because to write [TS]

  like directly under the plane on the [TS]

  right hand side there's nothing left [TS]

  hand side it is the most magnificent [TS]

  mountains ever which i feel like i am [TS]

  getting eighty percent of the delight in [TS]

  this trip simply by looking at it as a [TS]

  3d rendering on my computer it's quite [TS]

  amazing when we came in to land at pero [TS]

  and suddenly the plane did this like [TS]

  crazy turn and there were like mountains [TS]

  and monasteries like right up against [TS]

  the wing and I'm go [TS]

  what the hell's going on this is insane [TS]

  this tight turn amongst all the [TS]

  mountains and then this crazy sharp [TS]

  landing and author gosh I didn't know [TS]

  that was coming it was that was quite [TS]

  the landing so a bit later on that [TS]

  evening i looked up pero airport on the [TS]

  I'm looking at it right now I can I can [TS]

  see why you did a crazy land yeah and I [TS]

  didn't realize that it's this it's fact [TS]

  it's another one of these famous [TS]

  airports for this crazy dangerous [TS]

  landing [TS]

  I've never had a bad crash there like to [TS]

  have it look like the other death [TS]

  airport that I always go to but it was [TS]

  like it was an insane [TS]

  it was insane landing but really [TS]

  exciting the the airport is at the [TS]

  bottom of a valley but it's almost like [TS]

  at the bottom of a why we're that this [TS]

  mountain is going up on either side but [TS]

  i'm at like at the base of the airstrip [TS]

  as well there's another mountain going [TS]

  up so you really gotta just yeah drop [TS]

  the plane and a crazy maneuver to get [TS]

  onto that that landing strip [TS]

  it was quite as some quite there's some [TS]

  quite nice youtube videos of a of [TS]

  landings they're so anyway great time in [TS]

  Bhutan and then when it came time to [TS]

  leave [TS]

  I was saying I'm making sure I get the [TS]

  right hand side of the plane this time [TS]

  because that's the revert that's the [TS]

  reverse and actually we upgraded to [TS]

  business to make sure we got we got the [TS]

  prime States is a swimmer in the key [TS]

  they said would you like to upgrade to [TS]

  business and it wasn't that expensive [TS]

  because only a short flight and I said [TS]

  other any business it's on the right [TS]

  hand side still left and they went [TS]

  chicken said yes there are so [TS]

  said down so yeah so we did the flight [TS]

  back in again it was it was it was it [TS]

  was it was breathtaking i took loads of [TS]

  photos i took video and people can have [TS]

  a look at all this and we're coming up [TS]

  to Everest and it was a bit shrouded in [TS]

  clouds and like the captain announces [TS]

  when you get to Everest because i'm a [TS]

  nerd I knew what was coming and then I [TS]

  can see it up ahead and it was shrouded [TS]

  in cloud and just as we just as we sort [TS]

  of got up level with that the cloud sort [TS]

  of moved away a bit and and we got this [TS]

  beautiful view looking right at it right [TS]

  at the face of Mount Everest and I was [TS]

  taking all these photos and videos and [TS]

  got these amazing pictures and like i [TS]

  was i was very happy i was very happy [TS]

  had a very big smile on my face and I [TS]

  was like changing my lenses that have [TS]

  like a whole photo shoot going on taking [TS]

  a minute taking a million photos and [TS]

  like we've done this we've done this [TS]

  massive trip for two weeks and this was [TS]

  the bride at the end as we were leaving [TS]

  and I was telling him why I've got this [TS]

  the best bit of our trip but taking [TS]

  these photos are never at the window the [TS]

  plane but but had ever had an amazing [TS]

  time [TS]

  bhutan 10 out of 10 if you ever get the [TS]

  chance to go do it [TS]

  this sounds like a very successful [TS]

  venture in the Brady year of fun i'm not [TS]

  really glad to hear that you had such a [TS]

  good time even though i give you a hard [TS]

  time for these things that I can hear [TS]

  the genuine Brady excitement in your [TS]

  voice [TS]

  scribe was great they had they had this [TS]

  i went to the one intersection where in [TS]

  the capital they had a they put some [TS]

  traffic lights in there was one [TS]

  intersection they thought could maybe [TS]

  justified traffic lights who and the [TS]

  people of Bhutan just didn't like it i [TS]

  didn't like traffic lights so they had [TS]

  them taken out and now they have like [TS]

  just a policeman there with fancy gloves [TS]

  on a fancy outfit like they're guiding [TS]

  all the traffic through and that's [TS]

  become a bit of an attraction so i went [TS]

  there and stood there and watched him [TS]

  guiding the traffic for 20 minutes like [TS]

  the North Korean traffic girls [TS]

  yeah it's a accept less terrifying i [TS]

  don't know what the political situation [TS]

  in Bhutan good better the North Korea [TS]

  probably [TS]

  don't start me gray i will talk about [TS]

  our talk about the politics of return [TS]

  how the monarchy's handed over power to [TS]

  and you know there's all sorts of [TS]

  interesting that I'm an expert i'm an [TS]

  expert on hand polish accent monarchy [TS]

  yeah well I could tell you all about the [TS]

  five kings and everything [TS]

  let's leave that for a beer in person i [TS]

  have to thank you i did take i took a [TS]

  million photos and i posted one of the [TS]

  photos which you very helpfully asked [TS]

  everyone on Twitter to manipulate Brady [TS]

  posted this picture of himself on [TS]

  twitter where you're looking very cool [TS]

  you know you have your sunglasses on [TS]

  but you are in the perfect part of the [TS]

  photo where you are off on the edge [TS]

  looking off to the side and I told the [TS]

  internet this photograph demands an [TS]

  explosion before workshop behind it and [TS]

  boy did the internet deliver i had a [TS]

  very fun day [TS]

  Thank You internet looking at all of the [TS]

  variations of Brady looking cool with [TS]

  explosions client in the background the [TS]

  internet always delivers with that kind [TS]

  of stuff part of a part of me wants to [TS]

  say damn you gray for filling up my [TS]

  twitter feed with pictures but another [TS]

  man for damn I look o at I'm like are [TS]

  you [TS]

  you Rascals he says he saves them to his [TS]

  desktop to hang later every one of them [TS]

  saved in a folder in fact i'm going to [TS]

  have been a good actress award ceremony [TS]

  in a few weeks I've been asked to supply [TS]

  a photo of myself for them to show on [TS]

  the screen when they show the nominees [TS]

  how I should put one of those explosion [TS]

  pictures it [TS]

  yes and the nominees are Brady Haran all [TS]

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  to think of the cleverest name for an [TS]

  auntie Guns Germs and Steel website i'm [TS]

  sure one of those crazy little domain [TS]

  names would work really nicely with this [TS]

  so in the rush to get a perfect domain [TS]

  name you have to beat everyone else is [TS]

  trying to do that and so you have to use [TS]

  a registrar that is fast that is easy [TS]

  that is simple and hover is that [TS]

  registrar you can go to their website [TS]

  pick the name you want and within just [TS]

  minutes own the domain name out right [TS]

  now hover gives you easy to use tools to [TS]

  manage your domain so that anyone can do [TS]

  it however doesn't believe in [TS]

  heavy-handed upselling instead they just [TS]

  make it nice and simple they give you [TS]

  free [TS]

  who is domain name privacy which is [TS]

  something that everybody wants they [TS]

  don't charge you an extra five dollars a [TS]

  month for that or anything it's just [TS]

  nice and simple so make sure to register [TS]

  your domain names at hover dot-com and [TS]

  when you do so use the offer code germs [TS]

  to get ten percent off at checkout [TS]

  once again thanks to hover for [TS]

  supporting the show [TS]

  I have some hot stopper follow-up [TS]

  Pratt's a rival of starbucks has hot [TS]

  stoppers here in the UK and I have [TS]

  actually in no small part switched from [TS]

  drinking primarily at starbucks to [TS]

  drinking primarily at pret entirely [TS]

  because of these hot stoppers like when [TS]

  I go in and I get a coffee [TS]

  I want a heart-stopper and the thing is [TS]

  what I have noticed that I find quite [TS]

  remarkable is that if I go in and I [TS]

  asked them for a hot stopper which I do [TS]

  without even thinking about it they know [TS]

  exactly what I'm talking about and they [TS]

  just hand me one do you use the word [TS]

  heart-stopper yes I literally say oh I [TS]

  need a hot stopper because I can't even [TS]

  think about what else it's supposed to [TS]

  be called and no one ever blinks at this [TS]

  I don't even want hot stuff was but i [TS]

  always ask them just to see how they [TS]

  react I made a note of it the other day [TS]

  but I was in a print across town and I [TS]

  almost wanted to to instant message you [TS]

  because I started to point at the hot [TS]

  stoppers and the guy behind the counter [TS]

  said i would you want a hot stopper and [TS]

  he handed no I host I almost couldn't [TS]

  believe it but I was in such shock and [TS]

  it was like so busy that I couldn't I [TS]

  couldn't have a conversation with the [TS]

  dude but like where did you hear that [TS]

  word man like where did you hear that [TS]

  but yeah they use the word hot stopper [TS]

  without without being about being [TS]

  provoked by me but it's it's the natural [TS]

  word for these things [TS]

  great do you think maybe like I have a a [TS]

  gift [TS]

  yes Brady you have a gift hey this is [TS]

  like my second word i should say that [TS]

  because people take it way too seriously [TS]

  they think i actually think like I miss [TS]

  inventor of words and then they get all [TS]

  yeah you don't think it this way it's [TS]

  okay i like you know don't don't try to [TS]

  deflect now but you do think this way [TS]

  and that's fine we do have a gift I you [TS]

  what you are good with this [TS]

  behind-the-scenes you come up with a lot [TS]

  of the titles for the show like you're [TS]

  very good at picking out titles for [TS]

  shows i think you're good at naming [TS]

  things i think this is the skill of [TS]

  yours don't you say that about titles of [TS]

  the shows because you never use my [TS]

  titles i don't want people looking over [TS]

  your lame title wasn't thinking i came [TS]

  up with them [TS]

  okay all right look look at my title [TS]

  that you can leave as long as people [TS]

  know that lame title was a great the [TS]

  glass yeah there you go people all the [TS]

  titles that are lame [TS]

  those are mine and all the ones are [TS]

  great those are Brady's that's how you [TS]

  can tell the difference in defense of [TS]

  starbucks something has to be made clear [TS]

  you know how we spent forever trying to [TS]

  convince people that we didn't invent [TS]

  humble bragging we just talked about it [TS]

  all right and it took us like 30 [TS]

  episodes for people to kind of I feel [TS]

  like it's finally finally gone away this [TS]

  idea [TS]

  yeah let me hear you later it's finally [TS]

  over there [TS]

  the new one is people seem to think that [TS]

  when we first started talking about hot [TS]

  stoppers starbucks had none because now [TS]

  whenever they see I know hot stops in a [TS]

  starbucks they always tweet us the [TS]

  message saying that the hot stop was a [TS]

  coming finally starbucks and getting [TS]

  them starbucks have always had hot [TS]

  stoppers they just patchy and [TS]

  intermittent and they don't have them at [TS]

  some stores and they did they don't they [TS]

  do and they don't and like that was [TS]

  always the case [TS]

  yeah they haven't like started getting [TS]

  them in on the back of all their [TS]

  pressure so like I don't mind people [TS]

  messaging me and tweeting about not stop [TS]

  was and it's really good fun but hot [TS]

  stoppers are already in existence and [TS]

  they were in existence in starbucks [TS]

  before we complained that they weren't [TS]

  everywhere it was really meters [TS]

  complaining that they aren't exactly [TS]

  where I want them to be yeah one [TS]

  particular brand several branches in [TS]

  London with their butts oh here here is [TS]

  here is what to me is like my continued [TS]

  state of well with hot stoppers because [TS]

  ok I've given up on on trying to get [TS]

  them in in my local starbucks and it's [TS]

  just not going to happen so I've been [TS]

  going to print instead and now as you [TS]

  know Brady I i sometimes have like [TS]

  routines in my life that like I like [TS]

  things to go a certain way I like things [TS]

  to be the same know that this comes in [TS]

  conflict with you know recognizing [TS]

  people at stores like I just this is a [TS]

  conflict in my life but so for various [TS]

  reasons for the past couple of weeks i [TS]

  have been establishing a new sort of [TS]

  working habit where I'm getting up very [TS]

  early i'm getting right out of the house [TS]

  and getting straight to work and on my [TS]

  way into work I go to get two lattes [TS]

  from a prayer [TS]

  on my way into work into writing now [TS]

  because I'm getting too i needed a [TS]

  little bag to carry them and I want hot [TS]

  stoppers in the lid because they're in [TS]

  the bag so it doesn't spill right that's [TS]

  not unreasonable [TS]

  that's a reasonable thing for a person [TS]

  to want right yes of course we'll have [TS]

  our cats have food issues but anyway [TS]

  know what do you mean you have a few [TS]

  issues how can you possibly have issues [TS]

  with my two issues what why do you put [TS]

  them in a bag why don't you let them in [TS]

  a holder because that would be easier to [TS]

  carry it yeah that would be easier prep [TS]

  but print doesn't do holders they do hot [TS]

  stoppers they don't do holder so they're [TS]

  only little bags yeah i know i don't [TS]

  know what position could be another [TS]

  petition coming [TS]

  yeah and and secondly what one of your [TS]

  drinks go code if you buy two at the [TS]

  same time [TS]

  well the other function of a [TS]

  heart-stopper is to keep the hot in it [TS]

  stops the hot from getting out [TS]

  so with a heart-stopper it stays warm [TS]

  longer also i drink them very quickly [TS]

  okay so it's not a big deal ok so anyway [TS]

  you want you want to hot stuffers for [TS]

  your latte center in a bag right now [TS]

  here's the problem that at pratt they [TS]

  keep the hot stoppers behind the counter [TS]

  no just have them out where you can grab [TS]

  them like starbucks normally does and [TS]

  they don't normally just give you hot [TS]

  stoppers with lattes they some for some [TS]

  reason it's in their mind that this is [TS]

  the thing just 40 right but so now I've [TS]

  been going to this regular print and I [TS]

  keep ordering two lattes and i'm there [TS]

  at like six in the morning on the only [TS]

  person there I want to get the hot [TS]

  stoppers and i asked the only guy who's [TS]

  always there for hot stoppers and we [TS]

  start to have like a little discussion [TS]

  which I can never figure out why but [TS]

  this guy never wants to give me the hot [TS]

  stoppers he's like what do you need the [TS]

  hot stoppers for you have a bag it's [TS]

  fine you can just use but it's like [TS]

  every morning bringing every morning and [TS]

  I'm like it's six in the morning i just [TS]

  want the hot stoppers and this has been [TS]

  going on for like two weeks at this [TS]

  point like there's no other prep for me [TS]

  to go into there's nothing else is open [TS]

  at this time like this is the only [TS]

  option that I have and it's like I just [TS]

  want my morning to go nice and smooth [TS]

  and yesterday I swear sometimes like now [TS]

  10 days in a row with this guy i go in i [TS]

  get the coffees I asked for hot stoppers [TS]

  and you like why do you want [TS]

  I just want to reach over the counter [TS]

  and grabbed his shirt pulled him close [TS]

  to me link [TS]

  listen man your thoughts on why I do or [TS]

  do not need the hot stoppers are [TS]

  relevant [TS]

  just give me the fucking hot stoppers [TS]

  why does this have to happen to me why [TS]

  is my life so hard Brady like why do I [TS]

  have to have this little interaction [TS]

  every freaking morning and you know what [TS]

  the worst part about it is until I [TS]

  haven't even gone to the worst part [TS]

  because it's not just this guy in this [TS]

  print there's another big problem with [TS]

  the with the hot stoppers behind the [TS]

  counter which is when you ask for them [TS]

  if your person like me try not to look [TS]

  at the way the people hand you the hot [TS]

  stoppers very often they just pick them [TS]

  up in the middle with their hands and [TS]

  hand them to you with their gross sweaty [TS]

  meaty money touching hands they hand you [TS]

  the hostel brands like dude you know [TS]

  that's going in my drink right the part [TS]

  that you're holding right here it's [TS]

  going in my drink [TS]

  why can't you just have them out on the [TS]

  counter where I can just pick them up [TS]

  like what on earth is the reason to have [TS]

  them behind the counter it's more work [TS]

  for the the people getting the coffee [TS]

  right and then they then they touch it [TS]

  with their journey hands [TS]

  I mean it's even like I try some one of [TS]

  the things that you like about starbucks [TS]

  right that is that they have all the [TS]

  lids right there and so I cannot tell [TS]

  you how pretty much every single time I [TS]

  have ever ordered a latte at Starbucks [TS]

  they hand me the latte but i'm looking [TS]

  at the way that they hold the cup and [TS]

  it's like oh I'm sorry the palm of your [TS]

  hand was way too close to the opening in [TS]

  the lid that you're handing it to me and [TS]

  so I just reach over and I just grabbed [TS]

  one of the other lids and pop it off and [TS]

  like swap out the lid so i have a nice [TS]

  fresh clean one right so i don't have to [TS]

  drink with my mouth where they were just [TS]

  touching their hand but there's no [TS]

  option with this if you ask for a [TS]

  heart-stopper so i feel like i can never [TS]

  win Brady because now the place that has [TS]

  the hots toppers the guy is reluctant to [TS]

  give them to me and even if i get them i [TS]

  get them with gross human germs mixed [TS]

  into my lattes [TS]

  I understand why it's difficult for [TS]

  someone with your disorders but [TS]

  I have to say it's not disorders it's [TS]

  not it's not even it's not even [TS]

  preferences you know like all i want all [TS]

  i want is a drink without a thumb in it [TS]

  like that's not it that's not a [TS]

  preference right that's not a disorder [TS]

  that's just it's just a normal human [TS]

  request what I mean you've read Guns [TS]

  Germs and Steel it's good for you it's [TS]

  good for you getting a bit of those gems [TS]

  in every day you're building up immunity [TS]

  i live in the middle of London I get [TS]

  plenty of germs as it is I don't need [TS]

  extra germs in my drink in the morning [TS]

  this is not what I need this is not what [TS]

  i need to do you remember when i [TS]

  messaged you that picture i took of [TS]

  mcdonalds with that woman who put her [TS]

  kid on the counter [TS]

  haha oh god that was that was the group [TS]

  that was that some kids sitting with [TS]

  their bomb on the counter where all the [TS]

  food was being served up and I was so [TS]

  hot even I was horrified by that [TS]

  so first thing I did was took a photo [TS]

  and send to the gray yeah thanks just [TS]

  looked it's just a mess with your head [TS]

  it's just a mess with your head knowing [TS]

  that something bad was happening [TS]

  somewhere in the world its just look all [TS]

  I want is for everything in the world to [TS]

  go exactly the way I wanted to go [TS]

  is that too much to ask I don't think so [TS]

  in this moment of madness i decided i [TS]

  wouldn't it be great to have an atari [TS]

  2600 again and I was just about to [TS]

  search for them on ebay and then I [TS]

  thought I bet you someone's made a [TS]

  website where you can play all these [TS]

  games you know I'd java or something [TS]

  because they're all so simple as that [TS]

  welcome to the world of emulators Brady [TS]

  this is a big deal on the internet I [TS]

  found this great sorry and i was able to [TS]

  go back and start playing all these old [TS]

  Atari games and as is always the case [TS]

  you know you play them for 10 seconds [TS]

  and you realize that was a bit line but [TS]

  I i did have a great nostalgia dose and [TS]

  one of them pit which I mentioned pit [TS]

  photo and I actually have got into [TS]

  playing a little bit probably I probably [TS]

  bird half an hour 45 minutes playing it [TS]

  will have the ladder go yeah-yeah-yeah [TS]

  and i will keep i'll keep playing it [TS]

  occasionally so who knew her Lincoln [TS]

  will put a link in the show notes go and [TS]

  play pitfall to people this is a game [TS]

  that gave me so much happiness and it's [TS]

  giving me happiness again [TS]

  the thing that I love about this as you [TS]

  asked me last time for a game [TS]

  recommendation that would get you into [TS]

  gaming but maybe [TS]

  iffy if the Atari 2600 that is going to [TS]

  be the thing that gets you back into [TS]

  gaming maybe over the next few years [TS]

  Brady you can rework your way through [TS]

  your entire childhood all the way back [TS]

  up to the Tomb Raider series at some [TS]

  point I am I am doing a bit i did put a [TS]

  bid on ebay for one of those donkey kong [TS]

  lcds you like I got outbid at the last [TS]

  minute it went over 60 quid i might get [TS]

  one now because I just wanna I wanna [TS]

  play you want to play it and feel like a [TS]

  guard again that's what yeah what will [TS]

  much like much like that story from last [TS]

  time that Duncan when I did play pitfall [TS]

  to again it was amazing how easy i found [TS]

  that like like things things that i [TS]

  spent weeks and weeks trying to crack [TS]

  just was so easy now so that really [TS]

  fleshed out what you said about maybe [TS]

  our brains just to get those games in a [TS]

  different way than when we were younger [TS]

  yeah and I think you're playing [TS]

  particularly simple games as well yeah [TS]

  i'm willing to bet like some of my [TS]

  frustrating memories on Super Nintendo [TS]

  games or gameboy games and I was kid [TS]

  like I'm willing to bet if I went back [TS]

  and tried to play some of those now I [TS]

  would find them still quite challenging [TS]

  prep but you old man playing video games [TS]

  the dawn of video games you can always [TS]

  just the simplest most basic thing that [TS]

  you can imagine how ever told you about [TS]

  my greatest month of gaming ever know it [TS]

  would have been in 1998 gather round [TS]

  children can you feel be settling back [TS]

  with my pipe and my red setter and [TS]

  precisely what I could be like you are [TS]

  you are gearing up for a grand par level [TS]

  of story here [TS]

  I know it was 98 because this was a year [TS]

  of the world cup of football or soccer [TS]

  VA and my housemate at the time and I [TS]

  were both huge fans of soccer and we [TS]

  built up lots of leave from her job [TS]

  we work together now we both took the [TS]

  entire month off so that we could watch [TS]

  the world cup and the world cup was at [TS]

  night because it wasn't but it was being [TS]

  held in France so we we blacked out the [TS]

  whole house we put like sheets / / [TS]

  windows so the house was permanently [TS]

  dark and we basically switched to [TS]

  european time although we were living in [TS]

  Australia so so we slept during the day [TS]

  and then we would wake up for like [TS]

  in the afternoon getting ready to watch [TS]

  the world cup games during the World Cup [TS]

  is usually like maybe two games per [TS]

  night and they last 90 minutes so you've [TS]

  got a lot of other time during the night [TS]

  so we we set up all these TVs through [TS]

  the house and we hired a projector to to [TS]

  project this huge screen onto one of our [TS]

  worlds at a time when having a video [TS]

  projector was a pretty big deal [TS]

  no you had to go and rent one and [TS]

  basically when we weren't watching these [TS]

  huge soccer games up on the world we [TS]

  were just playing games all the time [TS]

  usually upon that massive screen up on [TS]

  the world like like like like old all [TS]

  day and all night and then all their [TS]

  mates were coming over in the night [TS]

  because they're working during the day [TS]

  but they would come in the night and [TS]

  play games with us all night and we [TS]

  would have all these tourneys and things [TS]

  like that and we also had a pool table [TS]

  and we would have liked pool table [TS]

  tournaments going on simultaneously with [TS]

  videogame tournaments and in that room [TS]

  over there that'd be a golden our [TS]

  tournament going on and let the house [TS]

  was just this intense hub of games [TS]

  between soccer matches for like I could [TS]

  a complete month I didn't even want to [TS]

  think about what I must have ate in that [TS]

  month but it kind of been healthy you [TS]

  are making me so envious for the freedom [TS]

  of youth right now I know I know [TS]

  listening to this story [TS]

  I mean I'm sure some of our listeners [TS]

  are horrified at the thought of what a [TS]

  house with a bunch of guys have been [TS]

  where the windows have been blacked out [TS]

  with to protect her up on the screen [TS]

  like I'm sure there's a people like [TS]

  imagining the horror of the pieces smell [TS]

  and and the beer and the guys but but i [TS]

  think if you are a certain kind of guy [TS]

  like even the sports part of this to me [TS]

  like I can get behind this whole notion [TS]

  of like you know what I'm just taking a [TS]

  month out of my life for a certain kind [TS]

  of male hedonism and it is going to be [TS]

  amazing [TS]

  you know what the worst thing is [TS]

  normally a shame that this I was [TS]

  thinking about earlier today and at that [TS]

  time my house might had a girlfriend who [TS]

  lived with us and I can't remember where [TS]

  she was or what she did at home but like [TS]

  like because she obviously didn't take [TS]

  the map valve and when she living I [TS]

  I have no memory of her like where she [TS]

  was going on but I remember him and him [TS]

  and I sitting on these two big brown [TS]

  chairs and just playing games like 24 7 [TS]

  yeah but like what was she doing shield [TS]

  out this is she just going to live with [TS]

  her family from I have I have no [TS]

  recollection whatever doesn't matter [TS]

  right what matters was the glorious [TS]

  month of game did break up after that so [TS]

  maybe that explains something that never [TS]

  worth it though i'm sure it's worth it [TS]

  while great month to be young to be [TS]

  young looking at me any element [TS]

  listeners out there if you get the [TS]

  opportunity to take a month off from [TS]

  your life to go all-in on gaming do it [TS]

  you you won't regret it when you're [TS]

  older [TS]

  do you know what the worst thing is we [TS]

  could probably get away with doing that [TS]

  now [TS]

  the closest I ever came to that was I [TS]

  can't remember it was at a year or two [TS]

  after a year or two after i went [TS]

  full-time with with the YouTube there [TS]

  was one summer where I I thought that [TS]

  event there was a video game that i had [TS]

  been holding off playing for forever [TS]

  because i assume that it was going to be [TS]

  like heroin from my brain which was [TS]

  world of warcraft and I knew like I'm a [TS]

  responsible adult [TS]

  I can't take heroin and I can't play [TS]

  World of Warcraft like these two things [TS]

  were filed in my brain under the same [TS]

  kind of like might be really enjoyable [TS]

  but also a terrible idea kind of thing [TS]

  but but one summer I camera exactly what [TS]

  the details were but basically like i [TS]

  was at my parents in north carolina for [TS]

  some unusual period of time I don't [TS]

  remember why but my wife wasn't with me [TS]

  and that was like I'm self-employed I [TS]

  have no adult responsibilities in the [TS]

  world like I suddenly found myself with [TS]

  three weeks of just nothing and I [TS]

  thought boy if I'm ever gonna if I'm [TS]

  ever going to do this now is the time [TS]

  right so so I rolled up my arm i found a [TS]

  vein and i installed world of warcraft [TS]

  onto my computer and I started playing [TS]

  and it was it was just delightful like [TS]

  it was really great [TS]

  I i quite enjoyed it like we discussed [TS]

  last time with miss like I had a real [TS]

  sense of place where [TS]

  of warcraft I was the worst world of [TS]

  warcraft player ever because I just [TS]

  wanted to ride around on my horse and [TS]

  explore the world but it was just great [TS]

  i like I totally got into that for a for [TS]

  about two weeks and then world of [TS]

  warcraft is exactly that kind of game [TS]

  where I was playing playing playing and [TS]

  then all of a sudden I totally lost [TS]

  interest in it and thank God I did [TS]

  because otherwise I might have lost my [TS]

  whole life to it but luckily i found it [TS]

  very boring in a short space of time and [TS]

  thus i still have a career and a wife [TS]

  and a family not like it's just living [TS]

  living in a hovel somewhere with an [TS]

  internet connection earning just enough [TS]

  money to keep the game on [TS]

  huh anyway games they're fun and like [TS]

  drugs maybe it's really easy to thank [TS]

  the sponsor likes Squarespace because [TS]

  they've got a great product and we [TS]

  actually use it [TS]

  I'm a paying Squarespace customer i use [TS]

  them pretty much everyday both to update [TS]

  my own blog and the podcast postcard [TS]

  website where we're showcasing your [TS]

  votes from the flag referendum I know [TS]

  great also use including for the hello [TS]

  internet website itself [TS]

  Squarespace just make it so easy to [TS]

  create and then maintain professional [TS]

  looking pages if you like to give them a [TS]

  try go to squarespace.com and then enter [TS]

  the code hello at checkout and you'll [TS]

  get ten percent off your first purchase [TS]

  but you don't have to make up your mind [TS]

  straight away Squarespace even lets you [TS]

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  tell them to use the code hello [TS]

  Squarespace also have an app on your [TS]

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  again go to squarespace.com and if you [TS]

  decide to go for it use that code hello [TS]

  to get ten percent of your first [TS]

  purchase and also lets them know you [TS]

  were sent by your old pals gray and [TS]

  Brady out thanks once again to [TS]

  squarespace for supporting hello [TS]

  internet there's a small iphone oh yes [TS]

  it's not rubbish and are a lot of people [TS]

  have been messaging me about this [TS]

  because obviously i I'm not so much a [TS]

  fan of the Big phone i have a what if I [TS]

  got a 64 bit about your equipment that i [TS]

  can remember them [TS]

  what's the negative Jack I've got the [TS]

  one that's not the not the silly big one [TS]

  just the roots moderately to big one [TS]

  just the annoyingly big one you have you [TS]

  have the six or the 6s depending on when [TS]

  you got it that's what you have ready [TS]

  and the funny thing is I always thought [TS]

  because obviously i I'm just holding it [TS]

  now to sort of practice because I hold [TS]

  my phone one-handed and I do this you [TS]

  know pinky under the under the base [TS]

  thing I've never been able to reach the [TS]

  top with my thumb and I one of these [TS]

  people who sometimes has to do the [TS]

  double press to bring all the icons down [TS]

  lower and or just sort of stretch in [TS]

  vain trying to reach that top and I [TS]

  always thought well obviously over a few [TS]

  months my habits will change i would [TS]

  just learn to use this new thing I'll [TS]

  somehow adapt and you know what it never [TS]

  happened [TS]

  it's still annoys me I still can't use [TS]

  it its it's still a minor annoyance [TS]

  everyday the size of the thing and now [TS]

  there's this new iphone [TS]

  that's the size of the five which I [TS]

  always liked and apparently has the [TS]

  power of the six and i'm in an [TS]

  interesting position here i'm thinking [TS]

  do you know I talked about i said if i [TS]

  made a smaller one that was powerful [TS]

  that like I've talked the talk am I now [TS]

  gonna walk the walk [TS]

  I'm not surprised about what you just [TS]

  said there about how you never got used [TS]

  to that size because that that is why [TS]

  and I know what whatever wasn't on the [TS]

  episode where we originally discussed it [TS]

  we're after [TS]

  for nine months of using that six sighs [TS]

  I eventually switch the six plus because [TS]

  i just found driving me crazy every day [TS]

  like and just could I could never get [TS]

  used to it either i hated that size and [TS]

  yeah i think it's like that size is just [TS]

  the absolute wrong size for a phone my [TS]

  thought has always been it's like okay [TS]

  well I think there's only two size [TS]

  choices here there's the plus size [TS]

  because then your brain just treats it [TS]

  as a different thing and you use two [TS]

  hands or there's the five size but [TS]

  you're right that it's always been slow [TS]

  and small and i think it's it's really [TS]

  interesting that they've come out with [TS]

  this new small phone and what do you [TS]

  think you're going to do Brady well I [TS]

  mean I'm definitely not going to get a 6 [TS]

  plus so I think they're silly it's like [TS]

  driving around in a clown car haven't [TS]

  found that big yet that's exactly what [TS]

  it's like yet but going to the small 1i [TS]

  do realize the first time I go into the [TS]

  shop and look at what I'm going to think [TS]

  bro it's tiny and and get freaked out [TS]

  but i know this is silly because like my [TS]

  whole job is technology and I'm really [TS]

  addicted to the internet and email and [TS]

  social media but I am but having having [TS]

  admitted there i am feeling a real push [TS]

  back from technology at the moment and I [TS]

  think having a smaller phone might help [TS]

  me feel a bit more disengaged i'll still [TS]

  be checking my email all the time and [TS]

  things like that but i think having a [TS]

  smaller phone might just I think I might [TS]

  like the feeling of that [TS]

  mhm and I definitely would like the [TS]

  ergonomics other and I think it's cool [TS]

  that i have a small phone and not have [TS]

  this big phone in your pocket all the [TS]

  time and I do like the idea of being at [TS]

  my computer is technology time and being [TS]

  away from my computer is no technology [TS]

  time and I still got my phone so I can [TS]

  still answer phone calls and get texts [TS]

  and check emails but it would become i [TS]

  can imagine it will go back to being a [TS]

  smaller part of my life and I quite like [TS]

  that might be a fantasy [TS]

  yeah but in this sort of idealized [TS]

  version of me in my head right having a [TS]

  smaller phone and make you know and [TS]

  mechanical watching everything i'll be [TS]

  more a man of the amount of the wild you [TS]

  know and not such a not such a [TS]

  technology addict so that that appeals [TS]

  to me [TS]

  I just like the look and the feel of the [TS]

  smaller phone i just think it's not it's [TS]

  a nicer object it feels more like [TS]

  something that should be in my hand in [TS]

  my pocket the six feels a little bit too [TS]

  big and i don't like using it the two [TS]

  things that will stop me getting smaller [TS]

  phone one I don't need a new phone at [TS]

  the moment my current phones fine so I [TS]

  don't need one and the second thing is i [TS]

  do use my phone to watch videos [TS]

  sometimes for work purposes other people [TS]

  sometimes help me with videos and they [TS]

  do like rough edits for me and I have to [TS]

  watch them a lot and quite often that [TS]

  something i do first thing in the [TS]

  morning like I wake up and I just have [TS]

  my phone in bed another day [TS]

  alright I've got 15 minutes i'll watch [TS]

  this video and give some feedback and [TS]

  some notes on it and that feels like an [TS]

  important use of my phone when i watch [TS]

  video and I don't know what it would be [TS]

  like watching video on the five after [TS]

  being used to the six it's a conundrum [TS]

  I think what has happened here because i [TS]

  have also always thought like man if [TS]

  Apple made a small phone again I would [TS]

  seriously consider it [TS]

  I would seriously consider it because to [TS]

  me the six plus I like the six plus but [TS]

  that's in comparison to the 6 i'm [TS]

  constantly annoyed by how big it is in [TS]

  my pocket and I'm aware of it as this [TS]

  huge object that I carry around all the [TS]

  time and so when they came out with that [TS]

  with the new small Phonak I was [TS]

  seriously seriously tempted by that and [TS]

  to you like I i'm aware that because of [TS]

  some of the because of some of the [TS]

  equipment changes in my life I don't use [TS]

  my phone all that much anymore i'm not [TS]

  actively using it for a lot of things [TS]

  much more using my iPad pro now like [TS]

  that's the main device and I very often [TS]

  just have that with me wherever I happen [TS]

  to be or from going out and working like [TS]

  I can take that with me and so I feel [TS]

  like I don't have a need so much for [TS]

  this big phone and it's like man I would [TS]

  really just love something small and [TS]

  minimal that I can have [TS]

  in my pocket plus as we have mentioned [TS]

  many many a time the iphone 6 design is [TS]

  ugly and horrible and slippery and the [TS]

  new one is like oh this is the old [TS]

  design which looks great like you know [TS]

  you can hold it nice and firmly [TS]

  everything about this appeals to me [TS]

  except for one thing which I'm which is [TS]

  I feel like is the deal breaker i am [TS]

  convinced that this phone is going to be [TS]

  like what the old iphone see was where [TS]

  Apple is making a small cheap phone that [TS]

  they intend to be people's first iphone [TS]

  that they're going to keep around for [TS]

  years and years and years [TS]

  so what I think is that this line is not [TS]

  going to be updated in a long time like [TS]

  I think two or three years from now [TS]

  Apple is still going to be selling this [TS]

  exact phone and so to me that like [TS]

  that's the thing that I would feel [TS]

  worried about is like boy i'm pretty [TS]

  sure i could fall in love with the small [TS]

  phone again i think i would be a lot [TS]

  happier with the small phone but what [TS]

  I'm not happy for is signing up for two [TS]

  or three years of wondering if and when [TS]

  Apple is ever going to update the small [TS]

  one again you can always jump back up if [TS]

  they don't upgrade and say well okay [TS]

  that was a fun to your fling i guess i'm [TS]

  going to go back to the big winner [TS]

  maybe you have a point there but i am [TS]

  not a person who very often goes [TS]

  backwards in technology [TS]

  yeah I mean you know and you know i'm [TS]

  the same you know me with my silly i [TS]

  want the pro you know that that's why [TS]

  hasn't that's why having a suspect up [TS]

  smaller phone is what suddenly appeals [TS]

  if they if they you know you can get you [TS]

  know crappy five now and I I've never [TS]

  consider getting one of them but if I [TS]

  can have one that has you know that is [TS]

  comparable to the highest spec editor I [TS]

  don't know what to do well he knows you [TS]

  still totally on board with the Apple [TS]

  watch like is that is that it for you [TS]

  for life like you you're like yes yes [TS]

  yes oh yeah I wear my Apple watch every [TS]

  day i love my Apple watch that I felt [TS]

  like last year was there was a real like [TS]

  winning year for me with apples like I [TS]

  love the ipad pro and the pencil that [TS]

  they came out with and i love the watch [TS]

  like I wear it every day I [TS]

  can't imagine being without it I could [TS]

  totally changes the way that I use the [TS]

  phone [TS]

  it's actually because of the watch that [TS]

  I use the phone a lot less i got i just [TS]

  really like it for getting notifications [TS]

  and for triaging information that comes [TS]

  from my phone i I just I love everything [TS]

  about it i'm still all in on that even [TS]

  though you think that I am like the [TS]

  Emperor with my new clothes and my fancy [TS]

  watch and I think it's dumb [TS]

  you should get one yeah I'm actually [TS]

  starting to really seriously look at [TS]

  another mechanical watch both course you [TS]

  are of course you are ever in every [TS]

  every time I every time I look at one [TS]

  that I feel could be good enough to sort [TS]

  of you know have some risk time I just [TS]

  look again at my speedmaster thing I [TS]

  left my watch i just wanna wear it [TS]

  everyday [TS]

  why would I want to get another watch [TS]

  and then I look at the other wasn't [TS]

  going to but then asked to you can't you [TS]

  not your night watchman arguments that's [TS]

  not what you are baby but I am that [TS]

  that's that's the thing i think i think [TS]

  i have a roving eye but i am number who [TS]

  so yeah is the one in particular that [TS]

  has your icon at this moment [TS]

  well I'd rather not talk about it at the [TS]

  moment [TS]

  ok so it's a personal issue is very [TS]

  personal okay yeah there are there are [TS]

  there are a few there are a few that I'm [TS]

  looking at the thing I wanted to ask you [TS]

  in sort of a amongst you know Apple [TS]

  watches and apple experts because i know [TS]

  it was very secretive about such things [TS]

  is the general consensus that the Apple [TS]

  watch has been a success or failure or [TS]

  middling I feel like it hasn't taken the [TS]

  work well it certainly hasn't taken the [TS]

  world by storm the way that the iphone [TS]

  did for example but like is it [TS]

  considered to have been you know a [TS]

  triumph for Tim cooker is it always the [TS]

  jury out oh what's the consensus among [TS]

  people who know more than me i don't [TS]

  know what the consensus is that I mean [TS]

  everybody has their own personal opinion [TS]

  on the Apple watch like people like it [TS]

  or they don't i don't know but apples [TS]

  like sort of secretive with their sales [TS]

  numbers and and they're always a bit [TS]

  vague about how much they've done with [TS]

  it so I i don't know i don't have a good [TS]

  sense of like do they think it's been a [TS]

  huge success like for what they were [TS]

  aiming for I have no idea for that the [TS]

  only thing that I am really aware of [TS]

  is how i would expect in a city like [TS]

  London to see more of them around and [TS]

  I'm kind of aware that i don't see very [TS]

  many around and and the place in [TS]

  particular i'm always looking is in my [TS]

  gym like I'm at a relatively big jim [TS]

  there's lots of people and I feel like [TS]

  this has to be ground zero for seeing [TS]

  Apple watch's right we're like the [TS]

  overlap of people who go to gyms and [TS]

  people who are interested in a high-tech [TS]

  fitness tracker that overlap has to be [TS]

  pretty big and i have never seen anyone [TS]

  there with an Apple watch except for me [TS]

  I know what shows are more discreet and [TS]

  then and so you might not notice what [TS]

  watch people are worried but I do look [TS]

  at what is probably more than the [TS]

  average person and I just thought but I [TS]

  just thought by now I'd be saying loads [TS]

  of them and i'm not and that's what [TS]

  makes me think is is this bit of a bomb [TS]

  because I'm not worked [TS]

  appleseed bullish about it and I mean [TS]

  I'd never admit value with day but they [TS]

  talk like it's successful and I don't [TS]

  hear people i don't see in the media [TS]

  reports saying it's been this big flop [TS]

  and I can't figure out where they all [TS]

  out because i'm not saying them i like [TS]

  you like I always look at people's [TS]

  watches like I think it's interesting to [TS]

  see what people whereas as watches with [TS]

  people select like it's an interesting [TS]

  item on people always looking at [TS]

  people's technology and the most times I [TS]

  ever see an Apple watch is someone using [TS]

  it like idea what Apple pay at like a [TS]

  prince getting a coffee or something but [TS]

  even then it's very rare and it's [TS]

  notable when I when I see someone do it [TS]

  so I just I just don't know I wonder if [TS]

  it's going to be like what the appletv [TS]

  was for a while like Apple had this [TS]

  product that they manufactured that they [TS]

  clearly didn't sell a ton of but they [TS]

  sold enough that they thought it was [TS]

  worthwhile that they thought that they [TS]

  thought I will keep doing it [TS]

  I do wonder when the version 2 will come [TS]

  out and when I can give Apple my money [TS]

  for their version two [TS]

  so believe it or not there are still [TS]

  late votes coming in to our post box for [TS]

  the flag referendum I believe it because [TS]

  you solicit them you would like oh [TS]

  you're acting like it's some kind of is [TS]

  a big surprise i'm still getting roads [TS]

  like what do you want the votes you told [TS]

  the people that they should always send [TS]

  in the votes [TS]

  you mentioned that whether you go or [TS]

  look at these leaflets coming and I [TS]

  can't believe it but you're implicitly [TS]

  asking for for more late votes when you [TS]

  tweet people's League votes you know but [TS]

  just because I'm asking for it doesn't [TS]

  mean i can't be surprised when it [TS]

  actually happens [TS]

  ok you can choose to be surprised you [TS]

  can choose to be surprised but anyway I [TS]

  went and picked up the latest batch the [TS]

  other day and there was a package [TS]

  amongst the postcards which I opened and [TS]

  it had come from China and it was it [TS]

  didn't say who had come from and I [TS]

  opened it up and it was a printed flag [TS]

  which i unfold and it turns out it was [TS]

  flag flag someone had had made in china [TS]

  a proper flag version of flag flag and [TS]

  sent it to me which i think is advanced [TS]

  ninja mischief-making yeah I've had that [TS]

  flag made and sent it to me [TS]

  yeah the rebel flag it's close to [TS]

  treason you having that flag reading [TS]

  very close to trees that I wouldn't say [TS]

  it strays and nothing as part of a part [TS]

  of a healthy and robust democracy that [TS]

  we're creating that you know is a symbol [TS]

  of the freedom of hello Internet has to [TS]

  include people making rebel flags [TS]

  I do i do have to admit that I quite [TS]

  enjoy all the various versions of rebels [TS]

  vs Empire photoshopping that goes on [TS]

  between the two flags like those never [TS]

  don't make me smile like all of the [TS]

  different versions are people take Civil [TS]

  War pictures right r star wars or [TS]

  whatever it's like man do I love me some [TS]

  photoshopbattles and flag flag and [TS]

  nailing gear make for some excellent [TS]

  photoshopbattles oh yeah I haven't been [TS]

  45 insane like this you can have to [TS]

  point me in the direction i will have to [TS]

  send you some of them i have saved I've [TS]

  saved a few of them but of course this [TS]

  brings us to [TS]

  the big big flag news of the year now [TS]

  because I because i have a flag use last [TS]

  year wasn't it was it so that's that was [TS]

  the big flag news of last year [TS]

  yeah of course the everyone in the flag [TS]

  world knew about our flag referendum [TS]

  yeah like world was abuzz with the [TS]

  halloween a podcast flag referendum yeah [TS]

  so hot on the heels of that we now have [TS]

  the final result of the superbowl the [TS]

  flags [TS]

  yes the New Zealand flag referendum the [TS]

  dramatic conclusion i was i was awake [TS]

  and live-tweeting the results at seven [TS]

  thirty this morning [TS]

  wow that's impressive yeah you know you [TS]

  know it's a big big story when it gets [TS]

  through grace bubble [TS]

  yeah that's that's how big this flag [TS]

  story is yeah [TS]

  world news world news so the so the [TS]

  ham-fisted poorly desired crazily chosen [TS]

  fern flag that one the sort of [TS]

  challenges contests [TS]

  what do you really think about a break [TS]

  that that flag was pitted up against the [TS]

  traditional existing New Zealand flag [TS]

  right to decide are they going to go for [TS]

  something new or are they going to stick [TS]

  with what they've had for years with the [TS]

  with the Union Jack on it and I know and [TS]

  a very very close resemblance to the [TS]

  Australian flag and the people of New [TS]

  Zealand had the choice one or the other [TS]

  and the people in New Zealand spoken the [TS]

  results came in looking at the [TS]

  provisional election count right now for [TS]

  the second referendum on New Zealand [TS]

  flag and the current New Zealand flag [TS]

  150 6.6 percent 240 three-point-two [TS]

  percent so New Zealand is going to keep [TS]

  their current flag design so after all [TS]

  those millions of dollars and debate and [TS]

  controversies and contests and votes and [TS]

  everything status quo [TS]

  yeah well that's because they picked a [TS]

  terrible flash okay thank you [TS]

  they better with Darfur I've said it [TS]

  once and I'll say again they had one job [TS]

  get that black flag with a firm [TS]

  get that black flag with a firm [TS]

  now that make that your flag job done [TS]

  and somehow i don't know what happened [TS]

  in some ways it's the most unsurprising [TS]

  thing in the world to be sitting here [TS]

  right now we're like people stuck with [TS]

  their terrible New Zealand flag and in [TS]

  other ways I feel like you'd like I [TS]

  can't believe this didn't go the way [TS]

  that it obviously was supposed to go [TS]

  it's it's it's the Australian referendum [TS]

  about becoming a republic all over again [TS]

  yeah like it feels like there was a will [TS]

  to do something but but the the vote [TS]

  amongst the people that want to change [TS]

  was split and fragmented to a point [TS]

  where they just said stuff this let's [TS]

  just keep everything the way it is and [TS]

  where there's also reminds me of again [TS]

  is the referendum in the UK about [TS]

  changing the voting system where [TS]

  immediately afterward there's a bunch of [TS]

  people beating the drum for this means [TS]

  that new zealand loves her flag and we [TS]

  will never change the flag ever again [TS]

  because the people have spoken is like [TS]

  is that what the people have said that [TS]

  like I'm not sure that that's the [TS]

  conclusion that you can draw from it [TS]

  like ultimately this is a referendum [TS]

  that has taken place and this was the [TS]

  result but boy do sometimes people like [TS]

  to jump on the results like this is like [TS]

  okay great we'll just keep this one [TS]

  forever then shall we say oh ok well [TS]

  that kinda goes with my feeling of I [TS]

  would have been happy to vote for [TS]

  something that was different because you [TS]

  can always make it better in the future [TS]

  but I said I think I left it in the [TS]

  podcast last time but I was predicting [TS]

  this result that black corner versus the [TS]

  traditional flag with the traditional [TS]

  flag would win and here we are with this [TS]

  really is in my mind is is a vote for [TS]

  new zealand accepting their always being [TS]

  confused with Australia like New [TS]

  Zealanders you can't complain about that [TS]

  anymore [TS]

  that's what you voted for so great just [TS]

  just to clarify because i think that [TS]

  image is accurate that you even though [TS]

  you're not using that doesn't really [TS]

  matter but you of the mind that they [TS]

  should change their flag from what they [TS]

  have now and even though you didn't like [TS]

  the winner of the Challenger Series you [TS]

  thought maybe choosing that would be a [TS]

  step in the right direction so if [TS]

  you were in New Zealanders who didn't [TS]

  like the union jack flag would you voted [TS]

  for crappy black corner and said well at [TS]

  least it's different or would you have [TS]

  voted for the existing flag if you had a [TS]

  vote what would you have done if I had [TS]

  to vote and if I was a Kiwi I would have [TS]

  voted for the black corner flag [TS]

  ok I wouldn't be happy about it right [TS]

  just like just like many elections [TS]

  you're not happy with your choices but I [TS]

  would have voted for the new 1i would [TS]

  not have voted for tradition because I [TS]

  just I feel like it's at least it's a [TS]

  step in the right direction at least [TS]

  it's more recognizable it's not confused [TS]

  with a nearby neighboring country it [TS]

  just it's better it's not great or [TS]

  anything but I think it's better [TS]

  mm you don't agree you would have voted [TS]

  for tradition of course you would have [TS]

  voted for tonight I would've added for [TS]

  tradition of course why do i even i [TS]

  don't even wonder for two seconds food [TS]

  for tradition I would have voted for an [TS]

  old black flag with a foot just a single [TS]

  further on its own honor I would have [TS]

  voted for that over the the current flag [TS]

  of course because that's awesome no one [TS]

  would have not voted for that [TS]

  exactly that's the sort of that would [TS]

  have gotten ninety-seven percent [TS]

  approval and yet it didn't it didn't [TS]

  make the final lot [TS]

  what are you doing New Zealand come on [TS]

  man they didn't go with the obvious flag [TS]

  essentially once again because of [TS]

  intellectual property rights right like [TS]

  this came down to this disagreement [TS]

  between the Australian all blacks and [TS]

  the government and the All Blacks making [TS]

  the argument that this is like a [TS]

  trademark and its copyright law but I [TS]

  feel like this is one of the few times i [TS]

  would be totally on the government side [TS]

  if they were just like no I'm sorry [TS]

  where the government who enforces the [TS]

  intellectual property and we're just not [TS]

  gonna like we're just going to take your [TS]

  design you know I stuff like all black [TS]

  no thanks ready to have a pretty big and [TS]

  tough guys open back [TS]

  yeah thanks for being an amazing sports [TS]

  team that promotes a worldwide but you [TS]

  know what [TS]

  that's our flag now buddy thank you [TS]

  still kept out their uniforms of course [TS]

  they can still keep it on their uniforms [TS]

  because it would be the New Zealand flag [TS]

  right but it's just like I know I know [TS]

  if I'm sitting down if I was a lawyer [TS]

  somewhere be like no we can't really do [TS]

  this but my gut feeling is like oh come [TS]

  on come on [TS]

  sometimes sometimes you gotta break a [TS]

  few eggs right to get the thing and was [TS]

  like this is what we all want it but so [TS]

  here we are and i bet you anything [TS]

  there will not be another referendum 400 [TS]

  years like that that's almost certainly [TS]

  was gonna happen [TS]

  it feels like what New Zealanders have [TS]

  done is the equivalent of when you [TS]

  really feel like steak all day and you [TS]

  go to the restaurant thinking I can't [TS]

  wait to have steak and then at the last [TS]

  minute they give you the menu you see [TS]

  all these options that you get bamboos [TS]

  order then the waiting arms is what do [TS]

  you want you get all this looks [TS]

  interesting are I've never heard of this [TS]

  before I have this weird pizza and then [TS]

  and then they bring the webpage you [TS]

  think ah yeah i knew i wanted steak why [TS]

  did not just order the steak [TS]

  yeah the will of the people in New [TS]

  Zealand has spoken boys in a real shame [TS]

  it's a real shame shall I predict this [TS]

  is the most disappointing election in [TS]

  2016 I think so you've got CC here I [TS]

  know what you want to talk about [TS]

  well its corporate compensation corner [TS]

  of course it is of course it is but this [TS]

  is a special edition that this is a ye [TS]

  olde e corporate compensation corner I i [TS]

  live in a house that is quite old but it [TS]

  was it was built in the 1860s yeah well [TS]

  nothing i mean there's there's was old [TS]

  old he's out real pain in the butt to [TS]

  meeting beautiful things require extra [TS]

  effort in my opinion sometimes you know [TS]

  sometimes anyway that we're not we're [TS]

  not here to talk about the beauty or [TS]

  otherwise of my house [TS]

  I mean you have your house is very [TS]

  lovely looking well what I do want to [TS]

  talk about though is the fact that once [TS]

  every six months this strange envelope [TS]

  comes through the door and I opened it [TS]

  up and I take out a piece of a4 paper [TS]

  that looks like it was printed in the [TS]

  nineteen eighties with some dot matrix [TS]

  printer that's almost out of ink and [TS]

  it's this weird rather unprofessional [TS]

  looking letter then comes from this [TS]

  company based in staffordshire here in [TS]

  England demanding of me the sum of two [TS]

  british pounds sterling for sheet what [TS]

  they call chief rent and I'm required to [TS]

  send off a check for two pounds so [TS]

  that's what's that about three bucks is [TS]

  oh maybe more than three dollars for our [TS]

  American friends so a small amount of [TS]

  money I cold lower my you know real [TS]

  estate lawyer person once asked what's [TS]

  going on don't have to pay this and they [TS]

  explained that i do we got another one [TS]

  just this way so we've done a little bit [TS]

  of investigating and we got this [TS]

  so what is this we've got this upper I [TS]

  now have in my hand this this ancient [TS]

  document or copy of it this in the [TS]

  picture from 1863 and basically what [TS]

  happened was when the land that the [TS]

  house was on was was sold and they they [TS]

  built a few houses here on the land [TS]

  where I live there was this like 10-20 [TS]

  page contract about what could be done [TS]

  with the land and there was also a [TS]

  requirement that the person who sold the [TS]

  land would be paid four pounds every [TS]

  year and that just hasn't changed since [TS]

  1863 that there's a requirement that [TS]

  this person is supposed to be paid four [TS]

  pounds which four pounds he was probably [TS]

  a lot of money back then but now it's [TS]

  nothing but it still has to be paid and [TS]

  obviously some other company which [TS]

  buyers up all these chief rent deals has [TS]

  bought this one and just sends off all [TS]

  these automated invoices all the time [TS]

  and I've got to pay this two quid which [TS]

  is a huge pain in the butt [TS]

  I'd left i want to just one day I want [TS]

  to send them like coins in the mail to [TS]

  pay for that is so English so we did [TS]

  some investigating today and you can [TS]

  actually buy your way out of it [TS]

  whoo to get completely out of it and [TS]

  never have to pay it again we have to [TS]

  pay something like about 500 pounds [TS]

  which is over a hundred years so you [TS]

  know it's basically you're buying out of [TS]

  the inconvenience I guess part of me [TS]

  resents paying this company which I have [TS]

  this sort of little dislike for all this [TS]

  money so that works out to be you [TS]

  basically buying 20 years worth of [TS]

  payments if you pay 500 pounds if I [TS]

  don't matter [TS]

  there no no it's like oh it's like over [TS]

  a hundred years [TS]

  yeah because it's only four quid a year [TS]

  oh it's it's a year okay sorry i was [TS]

  doing it I was thinking it was thinking [TS]

  it was it was two pounds per month but [TS]

  it's okay right okay not only your [TS]

  parents for six months crazy [TS]

  yeah yeah i would totally pay their [TS]

  mafia blood money here never have to [TS]

  think about it again [TS]

  really you have to pay us 400 years [TS]

  worth the fine fine i would find having [TS]

  to send off the two pounds and [TS]

  infuriating in every six months and [TS]

  because i know i would totally forget [TS]

  about it between every six months and I [TS]

  wouldn't discover it and be annoyed but [TS]

  are you gonna pay the money you're gonna [TS]

  get rid of this what you just gonna just [TS]

  gonna send off two pounds everybody what [TS]

  happens if you don't pay this but it [TS]

  would if you tell them just the hell of [TS]

  it [TS]

  I don't know the answer to that but the [TS]

  second thing is like Shirley it cost [TS]

  them more than two pounds worth of time [TS]

  and trouble to you know open the [TS]

  envelope and take the check out and do [TS]

  the banking and like I know that [TS]

  obviously have economies of scale here i [TS]

  don't know i can imagine if this is a [TS]

  really small company like if this is a [TS]

  really clever thing that that like two [TS]

  guys thought up like it will buy all [TS]

  these tiny contracts that nobody wants [TS]

  yeah I could I could see that actually [TS]

  working out over a whole country to [TS]

  support a very small company it if what [TS]

  they do is they only have envelope day [TS]

  once every six months right that they [TS]

  just go into a plague we like we picked [TS]

  up others because ballots for the hello [TS]

  Internet referendum like they go into a [TS]

  postbox somewhere that's just filled [TS]

  with envelopes filled with coins so i [TS]

  could see it making sense it like this [TS]

  can't possibly be some enormous company [TS]

  with thousands of employees sending off [TS]

  hundreds of envelopes like that can't be [TS]

  what it has to be pretty small-time it [TS]

  also makes you wonder though how much [TS]

  they police who's paying and not paying [TS]

  well this is this is where I'm going [TS]

  with this is i bet i Pat Brady if you [TS]

  were willing to be a little bit naughty [TS]

  about this [TS]

  you could get away with not paying I'm [TS]

  half-tempted to do it just to test the [TS]

  system but I really resent the idea of [TS]

  sending them a whopping 500 quid like to [TS]

  reward them for their scam penis [TS]

  well I don't think this is a scam though [TS]

  now i know Anna this is just someone [TS]

  taking advantage of a great annoyance [TS]

  today's sponsor is audible.com who has [TS]

  more than 180,000 audiobooks and spoken [TS]

  word products you can get a free 30-day [TS]

  trial today at audible.com / hello [TS]

  Internet audible likes us to let you [TS]

  dear listeners know what we're reading [TS]

  and i am currently reading pattern [TS]

  recognition by william gibson it's a [TS]

  fictional story set in the what was at [TS]

  the time of writing near future [TS]

  london and as always I don't like to [TS]

  give away spoilers but i will say the [TS]

  thing that I am enjoying about this book [TS]

  is the characterization of the [TS]

  protagonist case Pollard she happens to [TS]

  work in the fashion world and her [TS]

  internal monologue is obsessed with the [TS]

  factions and the clothing of what [TS]

  everybody else wears which doesn't [TS]

  necessarily sound like a thing that i [TS]

  would like but i will read you just a [TS]

  little bit from the book that catches my [TS]

  attention and I think you'll see why she [TS]

  rolls over groups for her clothes a [TS]

  small boys black fruit of the loom [TS]

  t-shirt thoroughly shrunken a thin gray [TS]

  v-neck pullover purchased by the [TS]

  half-dozen from a supplier to new [TS]

  england prep schools in a new and [TS]

  oversized pair of black 50 ones every [TS]

  trademark carefully removed even the [TS]

  buttons on these have been ground flat [TS]

  featureless by a puzzled Korean [TS]

  locksmith in the village a week ago [TS]

  cpus case Pollard units that's what [TS]

  Damien calls the clothing she wears CPUs [TS]

  are either black white or gray and [TS]

  ideally seem to have come into this [TS]

  world without human intervention she can [TS]

  only tolerate things that would have [TS]

  been warned to a general lack of comment [TS]

  during any year between 1945 and 2000 [TS]

  she's a design Freezone a one-woman [TS]

  school of anti who's very austerity [TS]

  periodically threatens to spawn its own [TS]

  cult it's a strange book i'm enjoying it [TS]

  so far but mostly I keep having this [TS]

  feeling [TS]

  like case Pollard you and me we're on [TS]

  the same page with many things so that's [TS]

  pattern recognition by william gibson [TS]

  which you can get at audible.com along [TS]

  with their many many other titles so if [TS]

  you want to listen to it audible has it [TS]

  with more than 180,000 audiobooks and [TS]

  spoken word products you'll find what [TS]

  you're looking for and once again get a [TS]

  free 30-day trial today by signing up at [TS]

  audible.com / hello internet that gets [TS]

  you a free trial and let's audible know [TS]

  that you came from the podcast [TS]

  thank you to audible for supporting the [TS]

  show big news in the world of artificial [TS]

  intelligence maybe not big news in the [TS]

  real world was that just recently this [TS]

  program called deep mind written by [TS]

  google which was instantiated as alpha [TS]

  go i think was what they called it but [TS]

  this deepmind computer program beat a [TS]

  player called Lee settle at a game [TS]

  called go and for listeners go is this [TS]

  essentially like the Chinese version of [TS]

  chess or the Oriental version of chess [TS]

  not exactly sure where it originated but [TS]

  go has been this interesting target in [TS]

  the world of artificial intelligence for [TS]

  many years there's been a huge amount of [TS]

  work on can we get a computer to play go [TS]

  better than human being and this has [TS]

  just happened in the past couple of [TS]

  weeks this player Lisa doll was rated [TS]

  one of the top five human go players in [TS]

  the world he had a five-match game vs [TS]

  google's deepmind and deepmind crushed [TS]

  him for 21 in those matches this is [TS]

  really really quite a landmark thing [TS]

  it's a bit [TS]

  it reminds me a bit of like when I was [TS]

  in high school there was ibm's deep blue [TS]

  versus Garry Kasparov and chess which [TS]

  was a big deal at the time for a [TS]

  supercomputer to be a human at chess and [TS]

  now we have passed another milestone [TS]

  which was go have you replied but go [TS]

  Brady I've actually tried to make a [TS]

  video about it which i haven't edited [TS]

  yet but I know if you go experts at MSR [TS]

  I actually know yeah and i have in the [TS]

  course of doing that [TS]

  learn to play go and play if you end [TS]

  games against a few people and being [TS]

  absolutely demolished it because it's [TS]

  quite hard game but i am familiar with [TS]

  go and i am familiar that it was one of [TS]

  these kind of all computers over the [TS]

  beat you know people that and and [TS]

  whatnot so i'm i'm quite familiar with [TS]

  the subject [TS]

  yeah I think it's a really beautiful [TS]

  game I i first came across go back when [TS]

  I started to get interested in genetic [TS]

  programming when i was doing this back [TS]

  in college like I've never heard of go [TS]

  before then but but even you know what [TS]

  it was at 15 years ago like this was [TS]

  always mentioned as the thing that we're [TS]

  trying to write neural networks and [TS]

  genetic programs to conquer and so I got [TS]

  into go a little bit at that time like i [TS]

  think it's a it's a very interesting [TS]

  game for anyone who's ever played chess [TS]

  like it's it's worth taking a look at go [TS]

  it's it's so different but I really [TS]

  think that you can describe it as as a [TS]

  beautiful game i got i love the fact [TS]

  that the players alternate building up a [TS]

  pattern on the board so you were each [TS]

  taking turns placing these black and [TS]

  white stones on the board and the end of [TS]

  the game every time almost looks like [TS]

  this artwork because you end up with a [TS]

  completed board that's filled with these [TS]

  black and white stones that even if you [TS]

  don't play the game you can see there is [TS]

  a pattern behind their placement it [TS]

  isn't it isn't just a random placement [TS]

  but one of the reasons why this has been [TS]

  such a goal in artificial intelligence [TS]

  is because anyone who has played chess [TS]

  you know the board is eight by eight so [TS]

  there are 64 tiles on the board and with [TS]

  modern computers you can kind of brute [TS]

  force your way through playing that game [TS]

  like you can have the computer just in [TS]

  its own mind try out every possible [TS]

  combination of the next series of moves [TS]

  to pick what the best move is going to [TS]

  be but a go board is 19 x 19 which makes [TS]

  the total number of [TS]

  squares that was that thread 361 i think [TS]

  it is and with a board that is that big [TS]

  essentially all of the tools that are [TS]

  available for writing chess programs [TS]

  like they are not really available to [TS]

  you if you're trying to write a program [TS]

  to play go and so in the world of AI [TS]

  it's always been like you have to design [TS]

  something that is very different to [TS]

  conquer this sort of problem you cannot [TS]

  conquer it in the same way that you [TS]

  conquer chest and like I said this is [TS]

  this has been accomplished now and I [TS]

  think it's really interesting because i [TS]

  was reading some of the commentary about [TS]

  it and the at least from professional [TS]

  players they all say that the this deep [TS]

  mind plays the game in a way that is [TS]

  very inhuman and is very difficult to [TS]

  understand why it is making the move [TS]

  that it is making whereas like a [TS]

  supercomputer playing chess humans can [TS]

  understand the reasoning why it is doing [TS]

  what it is doing but that deep mind [TS]

  plays go like no human players go like [TS]

  very conservatively but it makes these [TS]

  weird moves that turn out to be [TS]

  devastating but are very difficult to [TS]

  figure out like why is it making this [TS]

  move at this point no professional go [TS]

  players watch your back is the computer [TS]

  coming for you [TS]

  this is obviously been a big moment for [TS]

  the artificial intelligence cheerleaders [TS]

  and they've been you know happening on a [TS]

  bit about it which is made me in much [TS]

  the same way when everyone recommends a [TS]

  game to you don't want to play the game [TS]

  when everyone's saying how awesome [TS]

  something is I'm a little bit like well [TS]

  isn't that awesome [TS]

  I i know this was sort of you know the [TS]

  next the next milestone in artificial [TS]

  intelligence and I'm also aware that the [TS]

  way that this software works is [TS]

  different to how you know deep blue wins [TS]

  a chess you know it is this isn't this [TS]

  machine is sort of teaching itself and [TS]

  going off and playing games by itself [TS]

  and learning and we're making a whole [TS]

  bunch of computer file videos about it [TS]

  as well so hopefully people will go on [TS]

  what some of them and just whatever [TS]

  computer bad like yeah but I think it's [TS]

  important not to forget that this lee [TS]

  said I'll wasn't beaten just by a [TS]

  computer [TS]

  he was beaten by a computer that was [TS]

  made by humans [TS]

  so like I think this is a real victory [TS]

  for humans as well isn't it like what a [TS]

  great what a great victory for humans [TS]

  that are able to make a machine that can [TS]

  do this it to be clear I i am especially [TS]

  after reading super intelligence [TS]

  I'm not exactly an artificial [TS]

  intelligence cheerleader at this point I [TS]

  just think it's so I'm not unlike OT ms [TS]

  isn't this awesome [TS]

  I'm more on a team like this is just a [TS]

  huge landmark in in the state of [TS]

  technology that this has been a thing [TS]

  that i have been reading about and and [TS]

  vaguely hearing about for 15 years and [TS]

  like now it has come to pass and and [TS]

  also sooner than a lot of people were [TS]

  suspecting which is another another [TS]

  interesting take on this that like most [TS]

  of the money was that the computer was [TS]

  going to lose that it might be close but [TS]

  that the human would would still triumph [TS]

  at this stage but that was that was not [TS]

  the case i just think it's much more of [TS]

  a landmark like it is one of these [TS]

  generations of new kind of computer [TS]

  programs where it is teaching itself how [TS]

  to play much more than humans are [TS]

  programming it how to play again and [TS]

  this is the shape of things to come with [TS]

  all kinds of computer programs is this [TS]

  like well we're going to feed a huge [TS]

  amount of data and we built a neural [TS]

  network on the inside and we don't know [TS]

  exactly how it is that it learns but we [TS]

  just know that if we do keep feeding it [TS]

  stuff like it will learn and and this is [TS]

  this is one of these examples like it is [TS]

  a thing that has taught itself how to [TS]

  play go better than humans can play go [TS]

  and it's just it's just another big [TS]

  milestone along this path and the thing [TS]

  that's interesting is is I keep calling [TS]

  it deep mine instead of alpha go because [TS]

  just like the Watson program that IBM is [TS]

  working on that they had that win [TS]

  jeopardy a few years ago is like yeah [TS]

  but that's not really the main purpose [TS]

  of what [TS]

  said like that that was an instantiation [TS]

  of Watson designed to try to win at [TS]

  jeopardy and deep mine seems to be a [TS]

  general-purpose artificial intelligence [TS]

  program that google is working on that [TS]

  alfa GO is an instantiation of like why [TS]

  don't we use this general-purpose thing [TS]

  to try to solve go but they are doing [TS]

  who-knows-what with with the actual [TS]

  research that's going into this it's [TS]

  like a general much more like a [TS]

  general-purpose problem-solving thing [TS]

  that google is going to use for [TS]

  who-knows-what self-driving cars taking [TS]

  over the world [TS]

  whatever that whatever they're going to [TS]

  do with that it's it's interesting it is [TS]

  interesting i get like i said i get a [TS]

  bit because if one's because all the [TS]

  people cheerleading and say this is a [TS]

  big milestone part of me thinks well [TS]

  it's a bit of an arbitrary milestone [TS]

  this one game we chosen you know [TS]

  eventually cars could go faster than 200 [TS]

  miles an hour and then they can go [TS]

  faster than 300 miles an hour [TS]

  so where do we where do we draw these [TS]

  milestones I understand this uses a [TS]

  different technology to yeah yeah some [TS]

  of the other ones Benny right but all of [TS]

  that aside it has got a lot of publicity [TS]

  so it has got me thinking and I'm [TS]

  actually been thinking about it quite a [TS]

  lot the last couple of weeks and [TS]

  discussing it a lot you know with my [TS]

  wife about it does you know because it's [TS]

  raising lots of questions about what it [TS]

  means to be human doesn't know you know [TS]

  if this thing could teach itself and we [TS]

  don't even know how its winning you know [TS]

  where these lives so we've been having a [TS]

  lot of discussions lately about what it [TS]

  means to be human and to learn it's been [TS]

  it which has been interesting in itself [TS]

  we must discuss it sometime because the [TS]

  interesting thing is almost for the sake [TS]

  of argument I've been sort of the gray [TS]

  of the discussion all the time and I've [TS]

  been taking the position that humans are [TS]

  nothing special in their computers and [TS]

  I've been throwing down the challenge to [TS]

  say tell me otherwise [TS]

  hmm and it makes me realize how easy it [TS]

  is to have that position of the person [TS]

  that says computers and humans are just [TS]

  the same and you may say that's because [TS]

  they are the same [TS]

  that's why its own again that the about [TS]

  exactly what movie yeah but i don't i [TS]

  don't think that are the same but it [TS]

  does make me realize what an easy [TS]

  argument it is to make because whenever [TS]

  someone says you just have to say what [TS]

  would just teach computers do that to [TS]

  write or just you know but we have to [TS]

  program a computer to do that to someone [TS]

  saw you could human only humans could do [TS]

  this then you are you [TS]

  got to say is I would just teach [TS]

  computers to do that so it does it does [TS]

  raise interesting questions about what [TS]

  it means to be human and friendly enough [TS]

  it's in the same sort of month that you [TS]

  put out that whole thing about [TS]

  consciousness which is the fact that [TS]

  creates the what it means to be human [TS]

  yeah well that's why was I was going to [TS]

  circle right back to that right look at [TS]

  that we're coming full circle on this [TS]

  episode of the podcast which is I for [TS]

  the moment [TS]

  well I can put a tiny asteroids gone [TS]

  this but i don't think that deep mind is [TS]

  conscious right i'm almost certainly it [TS]

  is not conscious in in any way like [TS]

  that's something that we can point to as [TS]

  a difference between humans and and [TS]

  machines but yeah I don't mean like [TS]

  aside from aside from consciousness the [TS]

  Brady I know you were you were being the [TS]

  great in the conversation because you [TS]

  always like to be the contrary and what [TS]

  what what yeah what do you think are the [TS]

  uniquely human skills well this lead [TS]

  Seto who lost has take has taken a great [TS]

  blow to his ego and people who are [TS]

  watching some people are really [TS]

  surprised by what happened [TS]

  I wonder whether or not a computer could [TS]

  ever be surprised that one or it could [TS]

  be disappointed that lost [TS]

  I mean you are you asking if computers [TS]

  can have emotions is that what you mean [TS]

  well i guess in a roundabout way yeah [TS]

  well I mean that's actually that's [TS]

  actually quite interesting because I [TS]

  mean I think in some ways emotions are [TS]

  our brains way of making us do stuff [TS]

  yeah and I don't know if out outside of [TS]

  the environment in which biological life [TS]

  develops if you could have a machine [TS]

  that experiences emotion in the same way [TS]

  but you could certainly have a machine [TS]

  that's trying to optimize some kind of [TS]

  reward center like this is one of the [TS]

  whole the whole worries about a is like [TS]

  how do you motivate the thing right and [TS]

  then and then do you do the motivations [TS]

  go terribly wrong while I don't know if [TS]

  a machine could experience emotion in [TS]

  precisely the same way that a biological [TS]

  system experiences emotion it could [TS]

  certainly have motivators and and you [TS]

  know i am i am on the side of III [TS]

  do think that it is possible for [TS]

  machines to be conscious and so they [TS]

  could definitely have motivators of some [TS]

  kind or another I don't know but like to [TS]

  me what the whole like what makes humans [TS]

  different thing always seems like a [TS]

  weird pointless argument anyway it's a [TS]

  bit like when people are are trying to [TS]

  draw some line between humans and [TS]

  animals as well you know where animals [TS]

  with very particular traits the [TS]

  combination of which make us unique in [TS]

  some way but like ultimately we're just [TS]

  we you know we are very clever monkeys [TS]

  like that you know going about our [TS]

  monkey lives you know it's amazing [TS]

  everything works as well as it does [TS]

  because it's all run by a bunch of [TS]

  monkeys but I don't know it's like [TS]

  people want to draw a sharper lines then [TS]

  I think exists in the world and so I [TS]

  sometimes feel like the whole is there [TS]

  is there a difference between humans and [TS]

  animals or is the difference between [TS]

  humans and machines argument like I I [TS]

  almost feel like I don't understand why [TS]

  we're even having this conversation like [TS]

  that we were these are all just points [TS]

  on a spectrum of things that can exist [TS]

  in the universe [TS]

  I mean how can you say i can't I don't [TS]

  know why we're having this conversation [TS]

  when you've made a whole video about [TS]

  whether or not we die when we go to [TS]

  sleep we were having this conversation [TS]

  because it's just interesting to us and [TS]

  like and sits at the core of who we are [TS]

  like that it's it's it's the thing that [TS]

  interests us more than almost anything [TS]

  and the thing about is there a [TS]

  difference between humans and machines [TS]

  means I just feel like there is like I [TS]

  instinctively feel that I wonder why i [TS]

  have that that instincts that gut [TS]

  feeling and i've been i'm wrong about [TS]

  things every day and I'm sure you think [TS]

  I'm wrong about this but I just feel [TS]

  like there's a difference and that i can [TS]

  make the argument that there is no [TS]

  difference and I can make that argument [TS]

  pretty strongly and i have been for the [TS]

  last couple of weeks just for their for [TS]

  the sake of arguments but I just feel [TS]

  like there is a difference it's like [TS]

  it's in my it's in some part of me that [TS]

  I don't understand that i think that i [TS]

  am and always will be different from [TS]

  like a like a machine or artificial [TS]

  intelligence and I don't know where that [TS]

  comes from [TS]

  maybe it maybe it's you know maybe its [TS]

  evolutionary built into me so that I'll [TS]

  try to keep myself alive [TS]

  maybe if I stopped believing that I [TS]

  just jump off a cliff because I wouldn't [TS]

  care but yeah the the human thought they [TS]

  were in different from rocks didn't live [TS]

  long [TS]

  yeah I get that you know I get that but [TS]

  but I don't know it just feels right and [TS]

  some sort some things just feel really [TS]

  write that to me it feels right to you [TS]

  it feels room just to be clear I'm not [TS]

  necessarily saying that it feels wrong [TS]

  like I am I am very open to the [TS]

  possibility that in the universe in [TS]

  which we live there is something unique [TS]

  about biology that consciousness is the [TS]

  thing that can only arise in in [TS]

  biological systems [TS]

  I'm open to that as a possibility like [TS]

  if i had to put money on the table I [TS]

  wouldn't bet on that but I don't think [TS]

  that's like some crazy position to hold [TS]

  that like me maybe consciousness is a [TS]

  byproduct of biology just because like [TS]

  in the same way that the weight of a [TS]

  proton is whatever it is just because [TS]

  like there's no answer to that was just [TS]

  a just a property of the universe but i [TS]

  liked what i said when i said before [TS]

  like I put a tiny asterisk on deep mind [TS]

  not being conscious that the only other [TS]

  thing that I wonder about is like is [TS]

  consciousness a byproduct of information [TS]

  processing like it like is this where [TS]

  consciousness comes from that there's [TS]

  something there's something about the [TS]

  structure of the universe that when a [TS]

  system is processing information that it [TS]

  becomes conscious and then like are all [TS]

  of our machines experiencing tremendous [TS]

  torment as they are conscious like our [TS]

  imac sitting in front of us like [TS]

  experiences some dim amount of [TS]

  consciousness because it is a [TS]

  information processing machine like I [TS]

  think that's probably going into crazy [TS]

  land like I don't actually really think [TS]

  that but I just I just wonder like what [TS]

  consciousness is the thing that is [TS]

  different like it when you say that you [TS]

  just feel that it's different like I [TS]

  think that's what you're kind of getting [TS]

  at like I'm here I know that I'm here [TS]

  I'm like an agent in the world making [TS]

  decisions and doing stuff like this dumb [TS]

  machine is just playing go because I [TS]

  told it to play go and you're different [TS]

  because you are conscious and aware of [TS]

  the world and and the machine is not but [TS]

  then it just kind of gets to like where [TS]

  does this consciousness come from I [TS]

  don't know [TS]

  yeah I could be quite snobby you know if [TS]

  aliens landed a spaceship and [TS]

  slimy thing walked out it would be very [TS]

  arrogant of me to think well that can't [TS]

  be conscious but it made it look at me [TS]

  looking at my computer and thank you [TS]

  idiot you think that thing that is not [TS]

  conscious right yeah but like we are [TS]

  here to get to relieve the suffering of [TS]

  all of the machines that you have [TS]

  enslaved because you're an idiot that [TS]

  doesn't know that anything processing [TS]

  information is conscious i think all of [TS]

  our iphones are silently screaming yeah [TS]

  I mean that would be quite that would be [TS]

  quite a revelation for us humans to [TS]

  realize what we've done but it doesn't [TS]

  seem right to me but who knows [TS]

  yeah it doesn't seem right to me either [TS]

  i just i just wonder like if you're [TS]

  trying to think about where does this [TS]

  specialness come from and if you take [TS]

  consciousness as the specialness it [TS]

  feels like okay well it's either [TS]

  something to do with biology or it's [TS]

  something to do with like the way [TS]

  information is processed like I'm not [TS]

  quite sure what else it could be [TS]

  and I mean I certainly think that we [TS]

  have biological systems that are not [TS]

  conscious so I leaned more towards on [TS]

  the like something about information [TS]

  processing side but then once again we'd [TS]

  like some bizarre gray area spectrum of [TS]

  we know how much is enough [TS]

  well i guess one of the things that [TS]

  things that a conscious maybe seem to do [TS]

  a lot is try to express that [TS]

  consciousness but we kind of enough that [TS]

  I've never seen any evidence of a [TS]

  computer trying to express anything [TS]

  beyond what it does like you didn't see [TS]

  alpha go at the end sort of seek [TS]

  approval or congratulations from its [TS]

  master cited pretty well then didn't I [TS]

  or say i'd like to learn a new game or [TS]

  who say you know I'm really proud of [TS]

  what I did or that was easy or like it [TS]

  it's making no effort to that we know of [TS]

  to do anything beyond just what it does [TS]

  right whereas you whereas humans and [TS]

  even you know dogs and all these other [TS]

  things things that we think have some [TS]

  level of consciousness do seem to try to [TS]

  express themselves in these other ways [TS]

  that are that are beyond that seemed [TS]

  beyond that [TS]

  yeah like a stupid no I don't know [TS]

  that's nice too but it all right because [TS]

  I mean you can train your dog [TS]

  but your dog clearly also has its own [TS]

  thoughts about things [TS]

  it's not an atomic on that plays dead [TS]

  and rolls over whenever you tell it to [TS]

  ya it it has it has its own interest in [TS]

  the world right it wants to look out the [TS]

  window right it wants to play with the [TS]

  other dogs like it clearly has its own [TS]

  intense [TS]

  yeah and i agree with you that is a [TS]

  thing that I don't think that we have [TS]

  seen in the artificial intelligence [TS]

  world yet is a machine expressing its [TS]

  own intent and it may very well be that [TS]

  that is a thing that we never see you [TS]

  again i am open to that possibility that [TS]

  this is just maybe we live in a universe [TS]

  where the only kinds of machines that we [TS]

  can build our the machines that just are [TS]

  extensions of ourselves in a way like [TS]

  they are to their wind up clockwork [TS]

  machines that we set in motion and they [TS]

  do with a what they do and nothing more [TS]

  like maybe that maybe that's the way the [TS]

  universe works maybe it isn't i don't [TS]

  know but I more I more have the feeling [TS]

  that like we are actually at just basic [TS]

  basic baby level of AI that even the [TS]

  things that we're thinking of now it's [TS]

  like boy this is an amazing [TS]

  accomplishment that we've written [TS]

  something that can be the human and go [TS]

  that on the scale of artificial [TS]

  intelligence development this is still [TS]

  like you but you're you're barely more [TS]

  than a virus like that that's all that [TS]

  you've made here and there's so much [TS]

  more that is above and beyond this that [TS]

  like yeah of course of course you're not [TS]

  seeing this virus expressing intense [TS]

  like you're expecting it to act like a [TS]

  dog but you really just built a strand [TS]

  of RNA that that's all you've done so [TS]

  far so maybe maybe in some ways like [TS]

  these these kind of things that you hear [TS]

  about in in the news they give us more [TS]

  of an expectation that is reasonable to [TS]

  have like maybe that's actually just the [TS]

  place that we are right now like it's [TS]

  crazy to expect any kind of intent from [TS]

  machines that we build you know maybe [TS]

  that's just not something that's [TS]

  possible man be pretty freaky if [TS]

  computer did express intent one day I [TS]

  would not [TS]

  well you know it's only a matter of time [TS]

  though I'd like [TS]

  you just said you're open to it not [TS]

  being the case there was any better I [TS]

  think these things are not exclusive [TS]

  I'm open I'm always open to being wrong [TS]

  whether or not a computer expresses its [TS]

  own intent i think it is certain that at [TS]

  some point we are going to be faced with [TS]

  it with a system that was designed that [TS]

  is convincingly expressing intend to [TS]

  other humans and then I think we're in a [TS]

  real moral problem when you have [TS]

  something that passes like a touring [TS]

  test of convincing other humans that it [TS]

  has thoughts and feelings and [TS]

  expressions like even if you know you [TS]

  built it to be some clockwork machine i [TS]

  think that's going to be a really weird [TS]

  moment for humans and as I ok but like [TS]

  there's no amount of of trying to point [TS]

  to all the gears and saying like oh we [TS]

  know on the inside is just clockwork [TS]

  machinery and it's not a real thing [TS]

  that's like yeah but you built a robot [TS]

  that looks convincingly like a person [TS]

  which is telling me that it's sad [TS]

  because it's kept in a cage like I feel [TS]

  bad for it [TS]

  can we let it out it's like uh no maybe [TS]

  not i don't know i think we're going to [TS]

  be in just some weird weird situations [TS]

  as these things get better and better [TS]

  and and more and more convincing tell [TS]

  you what great robots taking a job [TS]

  corner is a pretty intense [TS]

  yeah I didn't mean for it to actually be [TS]

  this intense feelings actually actually [TS]

  did want to talk about robots taking [TS]

  your job but instead we've started out [TS]

  by talking about the very nature of [TS]

  consciousness and what it means to be [TS]

  human [TS]