Hello Internet

H.I. #38: The F-Word

 

  First of all I would I would probably pay you to not stick a fork into your leg. [TS]

  What do you Quicken on your mechanical keyboard about the how is quitting the pull of the follow up. [TS]

  There are a few things for follow up this quieted things. [TS]

  Actually I want to pick something that is from a long time ago which is that we made a joke at some point about [TS]

  surgeons listening to the podcast while they are performing surgery [TS]

  and how that would not be a good idea it was even depicted in this case one of dove skis and Cheyenne [TS]

  and I said there was a comment that was left for us on the Reddit which is terrifying to me [TS]

  but it is from a surgeon who says that it is not uncommon for surgeons to listen to things like audiobooks during [TS]

  routine surgeries [TS]

  and he had a rehab he laid out the rationale that what you're most worried about in your surgeon is that your surgeon [TS]

  becomes bored and so then they become inattentive [TS]

  and sort of they're doing very routine surgery that this is a problem [TS]

  and something like listening to an audiobook keep the surgeon in gaged [TS]

  but I still find that notion absolutely terrifying that I would not want to know that while while I was under the [TS]

  surgeon's listening to an audiobook I just I would be very uncomfortable with this piece of information. [TS]

  But now it is in my head it is impossible to unknow. [TS]

  But anyway so surgeons apparently do listen to audiobooks at the very least. But I still say hopefully not Paga. [TS]

  I read this as well just before the show. I mean they claim they're a surgeon you never know. [TS]

  The Internet and they call themselves a secret surgeon right. So I believe I believe their station. [TS]

  Now it makes sense I understand you know [TS]

  and needing to have something to keep your brain engaged I guess other than the sage [TS]

  or the secret said you did say this is when you're doing kind of really mundane you know same thing. [TS]

  Over and over again. [TS]

  Not when you're sort of doing brain surgery on someone who's you know three serious serious things [TS]

  but it does worry me a bit because he's going into surgery next week. Oh no. [TS]

  Yeah like just like you know she spent you know having having Lady surgery so she doesn't have a base. [TS]

  So she'll be fixed yet and I'm ready unlike massively worried about already because you know she says small [TS]

  and delicate and doesn't break that well anyway. [TS]

  And now I'm going to have this in my head that the surge is not paying attention so I don't think they go in through [TS]

  the nose for the surgery. Brady I don't think are her breathing is related to this. [TS]

  No that she goes under anaesthetic and I'm wearing you know I'm just worried and is that it is concerning [TS]

  when they come when they go in for any kind of surgery. Yeah. [TS]

  Also I'm not entirely convinced that secret surgeon is not a vet because I don't know seem to be ambiguous to me [TS]

  and it makes me think maybe there are that want to sound like a human surgeon. [TS]

  Can you tell from reading all the comments in the thread whether they're human or human and human surgeon [TS]

  or of you know what vets and humans are jinns. They're both doing surgery on animals. [TS]

  They're just different kinds of animals. [TS]

  I'll tell you what the best thing about the whole comic this person left on red is the last bit you have to read the [TS]

  last bit they write they where they say one other note one other note I arrived here via C G P Gray's channel which has [TS]

  been voting me for years now I had never watched Brady's channels before [TS]

  but now that I've been introduced to them I have to say I am amazed how I ever missed them they are all brilliant. [TS]

  Then he lists a bunch of your channels. Great stuff. [TS]

  Kudo's made is that the part of the comment that you like the best you can read it and the [TS]

  but you get you get a thumbs up from a secret surgeon that you or your channels and your work are all amazing yet [TS]

  and also they did say that they have actually been doing. [TS]

  He surgery listening to us now as well for the sad [TS]

  but I say they say for the past couple of weeks all my patients have been operated on by doctors hair and gray. [TS]

  I just I hope that is not true. [TS]

  I really hope here is their gin that you are not listening to the pod cast during surgery it makes me it makes me want [TS]

  to be very serious all the time so we don't accidently say anything that could be remotely funny to any human. [TS]

  Think of them just imagining a surgeon you know with their knife in a precarious location and the like a ha ha right [TS]

  and it and it plunges the knife into sensitive pieces now this is this is no good. [TS]

  Please don't listen to the podcast agents tweet Gray if you're doing surgery right. [TS]

  I like that image of the surgeon with a scalpel in one hand [TS]

  and their i Phone six in the other hand trying to awkwardly reach around the screen. [TS]

  Let me do you know it's no good it's no good it's not. Anyway I think I could do it. [TS]

  I have not probably could I probably could listen to podcasts what exactly are you are you that confident in your [TS]

  surgery skills. [TS]

  I can't I can't read if there's oil in the room looking for tv's Oh no there's any talking in the room I cannot read [TS]

  but I think I could. I think I could probably do a surgery. [TS]

  There is definitely a linguistic collision in my brain if I try to listen to a pod cast [TS]

  and do anything else that has anything to do with words. [TS]

  And I'm always surprised and very doubtful [TS]

  when people say that they are listening to the podcast while doing something word related or Yeah [TS]

  or like computer programming some people say listen to podcasts while their computer programming. [TS]

  I I would not be capable of doing that [TS]

  and I kind of refused to believe that those people are able to do that I think they're just doing their primary task [TS]

  really terribly and the thing about the surgeon that worries me is I've mentioned before that I listen to podcasts [TS]

  and audiobooks while I'm animating because these are different areas of my brain. [TS]

  It's like the visual side and then the linguistic side and is totally fine. But I. [TS]

  So do know that there's a trade off that it takes me longer to animate if I'm listening to something at the same time [TS]

  like I can tell that the work goes slower [TS]

  but I'm making a trade off here about how bored I get versus how long it's going to take. [TS]

  So I still does worry about surgeons having any part of their brain occupied by something other than the person's guts [TS]

  in front of them that they are manipulating. [TS]

  One of these days [TS]

  but not today I'm going to ask why animating is so boring for you because your animations don't move by that. [TS]

  Did that tedious today but we did another day. If you want to do that on the day that's fine. [TS]

  There's not really that much to say about it but when is a never stopped. [TS]

  Now we talked a lot about voting and elections in the last podcast [TS]

  and different people got wound up to different levels by that. Is there anything you wanted to follow up from that. [TS]

  Yes this happens all the time when we do our pod cast that immediately after the podcast goes out. [TS]

  I feel really riled up about all kinds of points and things that I want to talk about. [TS]

  But then but then we go to record you know ten days [TS]

  or two weeks later I often feel like nothing that happened in the past I'm much more willing to let it go. [TS]

  I have like all of these angry notes written down for points I want to follow up and things I want to clarify. [TS]

  And now sort of looking at them and I think I have one thing. Yes What do you want to follow up on. [TS]

  And that's more like a question that maybe you can answer for me first time post very thing which I'm not a witch I'm [TS]

  not a fan of and I did say that last time you were doing some amazing devil's advocacy in the last part. [TS]

  OK Well let me ask you this what is a coke First Past the Post. [TS]

  I know if there's one thing that it is not it is first past the post it's almost like that's almost the definition of [TS]

  what this method of aging is not yet because it's one of the. [TS]

  He methods where you don't have to reach the post like the other methods you know where they distribute preferences [TS]

  and keep going until someone gets a fifty percent like a post that is first past the post so it's almost like [TS]

  describing the opposite of what it is it's if it's the one method where you don't need to reach the post the name is is [TS]

  entirely misleading [TS]

  and I almost think that maybe that's part of the reason why it's able to spread is because you tell people of First [TS]

  Past the Post and they envision a horse race [TS]

  and horse races are really unambiguous about who was the winner like all right the guy across the line first that we [TS]

  determine when is this must be a reasonable voting system [TS]

  but yet the first transposed voting system that name could not possibly be less descriptive [TS]

  and it baffles me it absolutely baffled me which is why it's not me it's not even ambiguous. It's like willfully wrong. [TS]

  Yeah it's that's what I mean. I feel like it is almost intentionally or or just through random chance. [TS]

  Very confusing but confusing in a way that makes it feel more fair and more obvious. [TS]

  So the worse name is the worst name ever with the code is that like old adorable fair puppy biting. Right right. [TS]

  That must be the best way to vote right. Right but a book but adorable. [TS]

  Fair puppy voting is actually a box full of snakes. That's really what you voted for it. [TS]

  Not really what I was going for but yeah it is why most of the time if you are a nerd [TS]

  and you are reading literature on different voting systems very often [TS]

  when people who are familiar with the systems are talking about them they will refer to it as plurality voting which of [TS]

  course is actually what it is it is it is the voting system that selects the plurality [TS]

  but not necessarily the majority of the voters. I know you love that word. [TS]

  I know you love that word used low to last point custody but you really shouldn't. [TS]

  Why why should I use that word it is descriptive not to say well when you say it. [TS]

  Now do you talk about and I'm like I'm like a normal guy. [TS]

  Like if if you said to me I believe in prayer if you go to guy. Well I don't believe in plurality voting. [TS]

  I'm just simply saying that that is more descriptive. [TS]

  What I'm saying is what I'm saying is it's a word that not enough people understand [TS]

  and they certainly don't understand it in that context and it needs a different name that is not that. [TS]

  Here's the thing [TS]

  and this is one of these this isn't one of these Brady come up with a new name things this is just needs a needs to be [TS]

  something like leading vote getter or I don't know I don't know what the name for is [TS]

  but a name that explains what it is that isn't Verity. [TS]

  If we can move from a name that is actively confusing [TS]

  and misleading to a name that simply means nothing in the minds of most people that is an improvement. [TS]

  Fair enough that is way better. [TS]

  So that's why I would still advocate for a plurality even if maybe the majority of people don't know what that word is [TS]

  but maybe a plurality of people know what plurality means I saw a really cool calm [TS]

  and the other current who made apologies for not crediting you personally I kind of remember where our store [TS]

  but you know my whole leg thing for extra video footage which is not as bad no idea as you said because in some parts [TS]

  of the world I've since been told it doesn't just relate to commercial transactions [TS]

  and it can just mean a bit extra on the side. Your words always turn to mush. That's what happened. [TS]

  Someone said what and I call that vi vig Neap footage the video footage. Yeah. [TS]

  So you want to do you want to different people for all kinds of media that they the little extra things that we put on [TS]

  the hello internet channel should those be part of the app say sections is that what you want. [TS]

  You get that grey you're getting I like you think and the directors directors commentary on D.V.D. [TS]

  Uses the app come in. [TS]

  So while he's been away and he's with work [TS]

  but you think this is this is this is the in the epic could become a little genre Yeah if you could have all sorts of [TS]

  good yet giving up is the subject here that you want. Well it seems to be heading that way. [TS]

  Yeah yeah this is this is a freight train that can't be stopped. [TS]

  I think definitely I'll tell you what that speaking of that free voting like the most interesting thing the other day [TS]

  about free dating [TS]

  and that was someone sent me in I think I sent a link to one of these sites that talks about defining new trendy words [TS]

  are kind of what it was called had MAME in the know your means that you're from [TS]

  and they were pointing out that it has been posted there in the whole history of the word had been written [TS]

  and had left us out completely and referred to people who first posted it here and there [TS]

  and destines video in a couple of other videos and we will have to completely and I mean that doesn't bother me [TS]

  but it was just interesting. [TS]

  Are you sure it didn't bother me but since I tweeted that it has since been remedied anyway [TS]

  and we do get we do get credited now anyway that I hope I am the one who is credited as usually here you know I have I [TS]

  think I think you get a Fed chunk of the credit. And again I should get no chunk of the credit not at all. [TS]

  Well that's one of the by the things that did make me think about something I've heard discussed before is podcasts as [TS]

  source material. They are like The Ugly Sister of source material will be there. [TS]

  Well because you can't search them very easily. [TS]

  You can't search them all really you know with a Google search and then popular and high profile those videos. [TS]

  So if something happens in a podcast it's kind of it is caught anonymous even though we're posting these things on the [TS]

  Internet and you know everyone can listen to them [TS]

  and they're out there they still kind of hidden in the hidden things and that is one of the things that. [TS]

  Yes You know if someone says something in a product that said time [TS]

  and again it's so hard to find them it's just they're like they're invisible in terms of searching for something they [TS]

  are totally invisible That is true and then I am aware that I have to go on Twitter sometimes [TS]

  and ask people where on earth we said something if I want to link to a previous conversation that we've had. [TS]

  I wonder if this is part of the problem of the popularity of podcasts [TS]

  and no doubt they have gotten much more popular in the last couple years [TS]

  but I still think it's it's harder than other sources of media to get people started in pod cast. [TS]

  The percentage of the population who could potentially enjoy listening to podcasts is much much larger than the [TS]

  percentage of the population that currently does. [TS]

  I get that there's a high barrier to get people started in pod casts [TS]

  and that is I think that might be part of what you asked me just about the invisibility of them like where do they [TS]

  exist. Like oh can I go to the Web site. Well yes you can go to the Web site but that's a terrible experience. [TS]

  You really need to download this app for your phone and then search for the thing in the app [TS]

  and then click SUBSCRIBE it's a bigger process than perhaps it could be in other ways. [TS]

  Yeah but also if I made a podcast called the Brady loves read podcast [TS]

  and I made a podcast every day for three years telling your friend how much I love the color red. [TS]

  And then one day I wrote one blog saying my favorite color was blue. That's all anyone would know about me. [TS]

  Brady is the guy that wrote that blog [TS]

  and said he likes blow because the podcast as I look at it it doesn't seem to exist as a record the way that you've [TS]

  written stuff on the Internet does. [TS]

  Yes but I also think that that is that is the strength of it as well as we have discussed. [TS]

  I feel much more comfortable sometimes kind of just chatting about stuff on the pod cast in a way that I would never [TS]

  write some of the same stuff as a dedicated article on my blog because it is a very conversational nature of it that is [TS]

  it. And forming the listener that we are we are having a conversation. [TS]

  We're just talking about some stuff and sometimes we're saying things literally as they pop into our head [TS]

  or the first time we've ever thought about something. [TS]

  So I do also like the kind of low pressure world of Pollyanna thing versus versus writing an article which Yeah [TS]

  when you write an article the presumption is that you have actually spends time formulating how you are going to say [TS]

  something and though it is held to a much higher standard. It's like when not under oath. [TS]

  Yes I think that is an excellent way to put it. We're not under oath on the gas. [TS]

  Ever want to quote us to us or take us out of context like all of this is not under oath. [TS]

  The thing with podcasting The reason they can't go massive Is that just such a time sink. [TS]

  Well if I if I have a week where I'm not doing a long drive [TS]

  or I like a train trip I was fall behind on podcast completely and that it might just take some of them to listen to. [TS]

  Yeah but you have to you can be doing something else while you listen to the podcasts. [TS]

  Not many things but a few things to clean the house or whatever you know for a walk. [TS]

  Maybe you have it doesn't take like two hours to clean the house or walk the dog. [TS]

  You are right the pod cast definitely you have a certain amount of time to think [TS]

  and I am massively oversubscribed to podcasts [TS]

  and so have to use a kind of filtering sorting system on my own pod cast cue to even do it. [TS]

  So yeah they do take up a whole lot of time [TS]

  but I still say that there are many many more people who have room for pod cast in their life than Then currently [TS]

  listen to podcasts. Can I just clarify something else for the record and this is just one of those. [TS]

  Me wanting to sort something out for people because since we spoke about it on the podcast I've posted the video which [TS]

  is with this really is billionaire and in the comments under the video I saw a few people making little jokes [TS]

  and references to his smoking and the first puff thing that we talked about. [TS]

  So no memory and reading some of those comments. I think some people mis understood what I was. [TS]

  So I went back and this into the podcast and I could see how maybe it could be misconstrued [TS]

  and I don't know if was because of how I spoke was added to the what it was [TS]

  but just let me say just so it's clear to people when I said he has first puffs of cigarettes. [TS]

  I wasn't suggesting he sits there with a packet of cigarettes has a first time extinguisher Jose another one has a [TS]

  first class extinguishes that's not what I was what I was saying is if you get interrupted for some reason. [TS]

  After five or six puffs and has to put it out [TS]

  when it comes time to relight another one like twenty minutes later he went really hot used to him he will stop again [TS]

  he isn't a guy that just exclusively has her spouse. I hope that is clear. [TS]

  I thought that was clear from the previous podcast. [TS]

  Yeah [TS]

  but I think this is again an example of how as stories get told on the Internet they become these cartoonish versions [TS]

  of themselves [TS]

  and so it isn't one of the negative all that he is now going to have the reputation as the man who only takes a single [TS]

  puff from every cigarette that you have because you can't you can't fight against that that that is a certain kind of [TS]

  mean that sticks really well in people's minds with that I have billionaires [TS]

  and it's kind of funny like this game is just over. You're never going to be able to undo that kind of thing. [TS]

  It'll just it'll be with him until the end of time. [TS]

  And also even if you say something is not true it sticks in the head like listeners how I'm going to say something now [TS]

  this is not true [TS]

  but I'm going to say anyway I swear to god I'm not even going to put that part you know because you need to come up [TS]

  with something else because I'm just going to cut that. Do you want to give that another go or not to go. [TS]

  I like I like but we're just going to leave that in my editing hands that would use it if it doesn't make up. [TS]

  That you editing it out for that very reason because even if you know something's not true it doesn't matter. [TS]

  It doesn't stick it will stick. I love the internet I love the way that Internet conversations can unfold. [TS]

  I think you can have lots of very different kinds of conversations [TS]

  and you ever could in real life partly because of anonymity and partly because of a whole lot of other factors [TS]

  but one of the flip sides of that [TS]

  and one of the one of the costs that you end up having to pay is this is this weird fact that just things get [TS]

  exaggerated and distorted in ways that are impossible to prevent from happening. [TS]

  I feel like that was it my whole this video will make you angry video was was about is like having been on the internet [TS]

  long enough to see this exact same phenomenon play out in many different ways over you know over many different years [TS]

  and it's just a funny or interesting lie has an enormous edge in spread ability [TS]

  and stick ability over the boring truth. So a strain for the spiders. [TS]

  What's this about I don't know you're from Australia you tell me. [TS]

  But I made a joke about how Australia was full of spiders in a previous show [TS]

  and then one day everyone is tweeting at me there's an article that just says it's raining millions of baby spiders in [TS]

  Australia is this is this normal weather for Australia do you just get spider rain all the time down there whining in [TS]

  the winter only in the way it always rains we had things everywhere this is you know this is this is just a thing. [TS]

  Yeah I would say the stories about rainstorms are from so you know do you. [TS]

  I don't hear these stories of rains rain storms of frogs. [TS]

  Did you when you were little boy did you know my favorite books in the library when I was a little boy was [TS]

  when the books of facts. But Michael Caine books are facts which now have just become the stickles obviously. [TS]

  So basically I was into the stickles before there was. [TS]

  Yes And [TS]

  when you read those books there are always like you know in nine hundred thirty two hailed frogs for fifteen minutes in [TS]

  Cairo something it happened something gets blown up from a lake [TS]

  or something I guess goes up into something more than we're just having this conversation immediately after the like [TS]

  lies spread immediately fast so you better as trailing a spider drain into You Tube What do I get I want to see is [TS]

  there a video. OK there are actually a video of it raining spiders. [TS]

  That is that's not just a story that some people are telling. [TS]

  Anyway I don't I don't remember ever hearing about it raining frogs [TS]

  when I was a kid this is the first time I've heard about it raining creatures [TS]

  and it is of course spiders in Australia so I'm standing by my statement that Australia is full of spiders. [TS]

  They definitely range from some searching going on for you going to find me or raining frogs video [TS]

  and there's a look at paid record rain of animals and fish [TS]

  and frogs as the main ones they talk about say the I am entirely unaware of this phenomenon being animals jellyfish. [TS]

  Well God that would be horrifying jellyfish. [TS]

  Man I'm not a fan of the jellyfish that's my wife's Achilles heel was well they're awful I don't even like who decided [TS]

  that the Apple Watch you have a jelly fish on it that's a horrible decision [TS]

  and their numbers are increasing as the carbon dioxide levels increase in the ocean. [TS]

  That's like my biggest concern with global warming is like wait a minute you say we're giving the edge of the jellyfish. [TS]

  No we've got to put a stop to this right now. [TS]

  We don't need more of his jellyfish [TS]

  when I was in a strategist recently in Perth we were jumping off a little jetty into the water [TS]

  and there were jellyfish everywhere having to jump into the gaps between them you know and. [TS]

  We're going in the water and picking them up and bringing them up on to the jetty and playing with them [TS]

  and holding them and also I mean I guess it's fine if they're not the stinging kind you know [TS]

  but there were no good no you just you just find the horrible stinging kinds on the beach in Hawaii. [TS]

  Julio you can't touch that because you will experience pain like no human has ever experienced before. Oh OK great. [TS]

  Can we can we kill all of these things like Is there a way that we can kill them because I would be OK with that you [TS]

  know how one of the things if you get stung by jellyfish is you pay on the person to make a go at it this is like an [TS]

  urban legend I thought I was under the impression that this is just like this starts because some friends want to make [TS]

  their you know their friends day even worse like oh yeah jellyfish man of war. It's a real shame. [TS]

  You know we have to do now we have to be on you I think that's how that got started. [TS]

  All right but I'm not sure how we look at it [TS]

  and looking at it this is like urban legend I have a Scientific American article saying no this is not this is not [TS]

  helpful being on thank you. [TS]

  Yeah that's absolutely convinced this is just someone's idea of a prank one day [TS]

  and again the lies they spread very quickly. [TS]

  It's very memorable that you're supposed to pee on someone after they've been stung by a jellyfish. [TS]

  You know this just gets spread forever [TS]

  and even a statement going at now if anything we're just reinforcing people that's in this pot cast [TS]

  and they'll come away with the idea that oh yes of course we're supposed to be on someone [TS]

  when they get stung by a jellyfish. [TS]

  Well I would not even if they know it's not true though just keep telling the story like a bit of an urban legend I [TS]

  don't think that's true but apparently. [TS]

  Yeah [TS]

  but then people forget the urban legend apparently is that they just remember the fact later like it's it's really there's [TS]

  a couple of interesting kind of studies that I've come across on this [TS]

  but it is almost impossible to tell someone a untrue fact and preface it with the fact it is untrue [TS]

  and expected six months later they'll remember anything except the untrue fact if it was true. [TS]

  If it did help would you. Someone pay on you if you got stung by a jellyfish. If it would work. Yeah of course. [TS]

  Because it seems like getting stung by jellyfish is horrible so getting paid on by someone you have to have to weigh [TS]

  the situation that you're in. [TS]

  I had a man of war and it's wrapped around my arm and we just had to pull it off [TS]

  and my whole arm just feels like it's on fire. [TS]

  If someone peeing on my arm would make my arm feel better it's like please Can everybody just urinate all over my arm [TS]

  right now just any everybody. [TS]

  Right you get in a little circle and let's just do this right now because I want to die from the extra shooting pain. [TS]

  That's yeah. [TS]

  If it would work of course I would do it why wouldn't I do it because you're the guy that won't like you don't like [TS]

  sharing like drinks because of saliva. [TS]

  Yeah but you're in a sterile it's fine urine is sterile You don't have to look at that stuff. [TS]

  OK OK let's try to flip it around. [TS]

  Let's say that we were having this conversation let's say instead of of if we can start a new urban legend now let's [TS]

  say that instead of urine it was definitely that was the urban legend OK that's not sterile [TS]

  and then now it's like well you know maybe it'll make you or your jellyfish wound feel less bad [TS]

  but you're almost risking horrifying diseases and replication So you know the tradeoff here is not worth it. [TS]

  But remember people don't Defra Kate on so much. Yeah that's just making the die hard. [TS]

  This episode of hello internet is brought to you by fracture years ago when my wife [TS]

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  and get some of them printed out instead of having these images forever hidden in your photo library somewhere [TS]

  or on Instagram made out the important ones on your wall when you order those photos. [TS]

  Please make sure to use the coupon code. Hello Internet. [TS]

  All one word for fifteen percent off your first fracture order. Once again that's hello internet. [TS]

  All one word go to fracture Me dot com and get your images printed in vivid color directly on glass. [TS]

  I don't want anyone to take this personally. [TS]

  I think Apple watches perfectly Co and has lots of cool uses [TS]

  but I want to talk about these watch faces on Apple watchers. [TS]

  The stage for ten watches I think in the future we will look back at the fact people have got these potential watch [TS]

  faces on their smart watches and think it was a bit silly. And what were we thinking. [TS]

  What we doing that was just that was a stupid thing to do was silly fashion. [TS]

  Then I realize from the stuff that was done and I mean I went over a little bit last time [TS]

  and over brings up the thinking of his phone out of my head now but to me one of the things [TS]

  but there are two main things one thing is I think this game [TS]

  and that's made that's just how I'm used to telling time man. [TS]

  It's unacceptable to me and I just think it can be unlearned. [TS]

  You know people used to tell the time by the sun going through the sky and then let maybe a sundial would come along [TS]

  and I'm sure it was the daughter I don't like that shadow on the ground more sun Konica and then and then maybe [TS]

  when clocks came out people who do we need what we need clocks you know what we need sand things for like you know [TS]

  Santayana's what are we to cook for you know we've got the sun Oh we've got you know I don't like this new technology [TS]

  and then people I thought OK there's a new way of doing it and there was another new technology that's come along [TS]

  and I think that makes sense to me to abandon the old way of doing things [TS]

  and the reason clock faces a circular turn in the way they do [TS]

  and has hands is because of the mechanism that Palestine underneath and [TS]

  when that's no longer necessary I don't see why you're clinging to it. It's like having an apple watch. [TS]

  Actually to be quite cold [TS]

  but it's like having an apple watch that just has the sun on the screen moving across your screen over the course of [TS]

  the day you could do it but it would be like silly to be using the old fashioned way of doing things. [TS]

  This might drive you crazy but one of the apple watch faces that they're not that's a novelty [TS]

  but that's not how you tell the time and what you do it for a joke [TS]

  but I think these cook faces are big done that that's considered like a serious thing [TS]

  and all these people tweeting pictures of A [TS]

  and debating about it talking about I think same's putting clocks putting an old fashioned clock face on this high [TS]

  piece of technology to me is is like inventing the camera and using it purely to take photos of paintings or. [TS]

  Inventing a video camera and using it purely to record theater and plays like it's using is taking a new technology [TS]

  and just not having the imagination to realize this means I don't have to do it how I used to do it. [TS]

  That last part is part of the problem that I do have with the Apple Watch which is as it is right now you can only use [TS]

  the built in watch faces. [TS]

  Yeah so Johnny Ive presumably is the guy who has approved of the various watch faces [TS]

  and I've been talking with some people on Twitter [TS]

  and I think each of them is frustratingly limited in some particular way [TS]

  and I really don't know if Apple is ever going to open it up. It would not surprise me if they don't. [TS]

  But I really think they should allow other people to design different watch faces. Yeah. Does. [TS]

  I mean I know this is kind of not the Apple way but like you know let people design their watch faces [TS]

  and you know what's going to happen. [TS]

  There's going to be thousands of hideous and awful faces [TS]

  and many people will have terribly ugly tacky looking watch faces. [TS]

  But when you open something up to the the world to try to change and improve. [TS]

  Some people will come up with amazing things that just the people at Apple would not be able to come up with on their [TS]

  own. [TS]

  And this is always the case if you know if you're looking at what one of the best watches that this group of five [TS]

  designers at Apple can come up with versus what is the best watch face that tens of thousands of developers can [TS]

  possibly come up with. The best one is probably going to come out of the larger group. [TS]

  And so I think yes there are very many things that could be done to Interestingly show the time in new ways on the [TS]

  Apple Watch. But right now that can't be done. [TS]

  And one of the reasons that I think you see so many people using the analog watch face is because there is really only [TS]

  one digital watch face on the Apple Watch right now and it is hideous and badly designed. [TS]

  Now I took one look at it [TS]

  and thought man I could never I could never use this as my watch face because they stick the watch part of it the time [TS]

  it was trapped in the upper right hand side of the screen. [TS]

  And I think they do that just to make it consistent with all of their other novelty watches as they look. [TS]

  And I have a digital watch face. I'm going to want to time big and in the middle. [TS]

  But you can't put it big in in the middle because Johnny Ive says no it has to go up in the corner because I want to [TS]

  match all of the other watches. [TS]

  So I don't doubt that a lot more people would be using a digital watch face if they had better digital watch face [TS]

  options. [TS]

  And I'm kind of driven crazy by the limited options with the two faces that I have some kind of always switching back [TS]

  and forth between these two one called utility [TS]

  and one called simplicity because each of them has things that I like I want to combine the features the best features [TS]

  of both of these but you want me do it. [TS]

  I just think it's a failure of imagination and what you say is true [TS]

  and the joining are things interesting because I mean I don't pretend to know anything about Apple or China [TS]

  but I do know that he's big watch and the easiest [TS]

  and I wonder if he has sort of a say in this is his one chance to you know it's New Year's he's going to get to like [TS]

  designing a Rolex or an Amiga or something and he's [TS]

  and he's failed to realize that that's not where he should be making. [TS]

  I feel very strongly that it is totally fine for Apple to have a bunch of recommended watch faces [TS]

  but if they never open it up to let other people design different watch faces I will find that endlessly frustrating [TS]

  and I just wouldn't be surprised if Apple says for several years now we're not going to lie. [TS]

  Now additional watches additional watch faces on our on our beautiful device. [TS]

  I mean everybody like that just that just feels like a kind of decision that Apple would make [TS]

  and you know while I do like Apple there are certain ways that it is infuriating [TS]

  and you just have to learn to deal with that kind of stuff sometimes and this is [TS]

  and this is one of those I mean I understand they can't have had it right from the start [TS]

  but I just feel like they might never do it and I really hope that that is not the case. [TS]

  But I but I you know I will probably still always use an analog watch face [TS]

  and I understand your argument that there should be something new [TS]

  but I I quite like the way the analog watch face looks. And yeah of course I could I could use a different watch. [TS]

  I could use a different way of telling time. But I would like a nice analog watch face on my watch. [TS]

  I just think it looks similar. [TS]

  I think it looks like I think it would be interesting I think it makes people look silly like like like I feel like [TS]

  going up to them saying Do you realize that like there are no coke so we gaze in that thing you realize like I didn't I [TS]

  didn't know that that you know there's no gear than my I want to I didn't know it just seems it just seems a bit funny [TS]

  to me and I but I sent you a picture of what my watch face looks like. [TS]

  I just you know I'm waiting for you to you can tell me what you think about it I mean just as a as a picture as like a [TS]

  you know as a screengrab. [TS]

  OK but I think when it's on your hand is when it looks silly when you see the whole head and everything [TS]

  and then see this projection of what is what it looks silly. [TS]

  Well you know my my suggestion for you is that you should never buy one of these. [TS]

  And I genuinely hope that you you stick with that other I don't know if that will happen or not [TS]

  but now you gotta stay strong baby. [TS]

  I think I'm speaking as your friend I don't think that you should ever get one of these I think you will always be kind [TS]

  of sad about. It and your current watch looks so cool every time. [TS]

  Yeah yeah I mean nothing's going to change much [TS]

  but the one thing that's slightly swayed made us wait isn't decided that way. [TS]

  Now I've decided to Suakin M M M I know you shouldn't say this publicly which is interesting as well [TS]

  but decided to switch on my hopes lotto pretty strongly. Oh really. [TS]

  Yeah so and you know [TS]

  and I know I really respond to game I find my fitness so you know I need you know all the calorie counting devices [TS]

  and exercise monitoring and I get quite into that. [TS]

  So I'm doing that and I've got a whole set up on my phone and and it works fine on my phone. [TS]

  But it does make me think some of this would be easier to watch when I go out for a run [TS]

  or a war can things like that but I still think the phone does well enough that I don't I don't need a watch. [TS]

  I have been surprised at how effective the game if occasion of the watch has been [TS]

  and I am someone who has been exposed to game if occasion through all kinds of various systems for a long period of [TS]

  time like video games do this kind of where the term king of Cajun comes from. [TS]

  They're always trying to get their hooks into your brain with making you complete stuff [TS]

  or just working in tension Lee kind of addictive or goal seeking behaviors. [TS]

  And I'm relatively immune to those things and I guess I don't know how long I've had to watch them maybe a month [TS]

  or just slightly under a month but I am surprised at how strongly it is sticking [TS]

  and I think the real key factor is whoever Apple made the decision that the activity tracker is a series of circles [TS]

  that you need to close verses progress bars that you need to complete. [TS]

  I think that little decision was really genius [TS]

  and having it then on your watch face so that you are aware of these open circles every time you look at your. [TS]

  Watch it's surprisingly effective and has a unexpectedly large staying power like an unsolved Rubik's Cube [TS]

  or something something that just knows it yet has yes it needs shows. [TS]

  Visually a thing that is incomplete and I think if you did little progress bars it wouldn't quite be as effective. [TS]

  But the notion of like oh I can close this loop and I can see on my watch that all three of those circles are filled. [TS]

  It's it's it's very effective. Now I'm curious to see you know six months from now is it still that effective. [TS]

  But I would have I would have expected that by this point my brain would have already learned to kind of not care about [TS]

  those circles. And that has not been that has not been the case. [TS]

  And the Apple Watch also does give you these little badges [TS]

  when you complete various tasks like oh if you're unusually active in a particular day it gives you like a little [TS]

  sticker basically. [TS]

  And the horse things things I can I am never I was never the kid in school who wanted stickers [TS]

  but those little badges are surprisingly well received by me [TS]

  when it popped up on the watch I think I got the little badge and now it adds to my collection on the Apple Watch. [TS]

  As someone who in school didn't really respond to teachers trying to give out gold stickers [TS]

  and things I wouldn't have thought that would be as effective as it actually is. [TS]

  But I do know from my experience teaching that stickers are shockingly effective at motivating kids. [TS]

  I never really used stickers that much when I was teaching [TS]

  and it was because I just couldn't internalize how much kids wanted completion stickers [TS]

  or little stamps on their homework. [TS]

  But I swear on the rare occasions [TS]

  when I did bust out the stickers of the stamps kids would kids would murder each other in their sleep to get an [TS]

  additional gold star. It was it was just amazing. [TS]

  How much people respond to this totally arbitrary thing [TS]

  and especially if you have the good stickers that some kids want. [TS]

  It was it was it was like an ethical to use stickers to motivate children to do particularly tasks I couldn't believe [TS]

  it and I didn't use a very much but it was it was just bizarre [TS]

  and now I find myself in the same kind of way I like what I do on my sticker [TS]

  or there's what there's one stick that I know I'll never get because it's something about quadrupling your daily [TS]

  exercise goal and I already started the daily exercise goal of being very very high very active life. [TS]

  So there's no way that I can ever reach that one. [TS]

  And I find my brain sometimes going you know maybe you should just reset the whole system so that you can get to this [TS]

  point [TS]

  and have good Drupal of your exercise activity just to get the sticker was like wait wait what do you what are you suggesting [TS]

  grain that we do worse with regards to our health activity for the period of a month to get a meaningless sequence of [TS]

  pixels on a phone screen and the brain says yes that is exactly what I'm proposing [TS]

  and I make it look like I don't know I mean utterly utterly respond to that I was so into collecting sports cards [TS]

  and things like that [TS]

  when I was young so I totally I tend to get those loops really plug into the completionist part of your brain. [TS]

  I mean look at May I make a video of every element on the periodic table. You know I'm still like that. [TS]

  Now once again that they will get the pok√©mon effect you know if you have one you have to get all of them now. Yeah. [TS]

  The same one the thing with this watch face thing. [TS]

  The funny thing is it feels like like [TS]

  when the Apple Watch comes out everyone's like what's this going to mean for all the glamour watch friends you know as [TS]

  a going to have to you know introduce their own smart watches and trying to catch up. [TS]

  And yet it feels like Apple is the one to pay. They're the ones who are trying to make their watches look like a Rolex. [TS]

  Or an Amiga [TS]

  or a tank they're like they're the ones who are the who are the who are the the poor cousins they shouldn't be the poor [TS]

  cousins they should be just turning their back on the old ways [TS]

  and saying OK you can wear euro dumb watches I've heard them called which is a term I don't like. [TS]

  I've heard them called dumped on watches they should be turning their back and say what just with your hands [TS]

  and you second but instead they're like oh I don't know when you but look we trying to look like an Amiga. [TS]

  We're trying. [TS]

  It's like well I'm gonna just give those give those old brains a kick up the backside [TS]

  and say that's just not how we roll anymore. Instead I think that are in themselves a disservice. [TS]

  Some of the interviews I've seen with Johnny Ive [TS]

  and some of the material that Apple has released it does feel weirdly like they are trying to prove themselves as a [TS]

  member of the watch world that we know we where right up there with all of these luxury watch brands [TS]

  and I agree with you I think the smarter play is almost to pretend like they don't exist. [TS]

  Yeah and to just say we're doing our own amazing thing [TS]

  and who cares about the approval of Swiss watchmakers do they think our watches are good or not. [TS]

  Well you know we've just made this thing and we put it out in the world the end [TS]

  but it does it does feel I think your comment earlier has has a ring of truth to it to me that that like Johnny Ive [TS]

  once other watchmakers to like his watch designs and and is like no just make your own thing. [TS]

  Just it's a different it's a different new thing in the world. [TS]

  Yes it's related to watches that have come before [TS]

  but really it's much more it's much more the next step in the world of computing than it is the next step in the world [TS]

  of of watches. [TS]

  I was actually at the Science Museum in London just the other day [TS]

  and I was walking past some of the early difference engines and I took a little picture of my. [TS]

  Apple Watch in front of difference engine number two. [TS]

  This is progress because I really do feel that there's a much straighter line from the Difference Engine to the Apple [TS]

  Watch than there is from a Rolex to an apple watch like they're just different creatures. [TS]

  They're not even remotely the same. Like you sent me that image of your watch face a second ago. [TS]

  And if I was going to describe it you know it's clean and simple and all the things I would expect from a C G P. [TS]

  Gray watch face. But it is almost childlike as well. [TS]

  It's like a it's like a childish representation of a of an adult's watch. [TS]

  To me yeah I really don't like the hands and I don't like the ring that goes around on my watch face. [TS]

  That's the utility watch face for those listening. [TS]

  There's a watch face that I like much better which is called simple [TS]

  but I really want the calendar that I have on the bottom there that shows what I have currently signed up. [TS]

  But of course because of Johnny Ives design limitations you can't get both. [TS]

  I can't get the little calendar thing on the bottom on the watch face that I actually like more. [TS]

  And I see no reason for that. Thanks to all of the dot com for supporting the podcast. [TS]

  Now last time I checked all of those listing more than one hundred eighty thousand titles in its range of audiobooks [TS]

  and other spoken material that number seems to be going up all the time in fact I think they should have one of those [TS]

  little counters on their website constantly showing what the tally is. [TS]

  Now obviously don't need to sell you on the idea of listening to because well you're listening to a podcast right now [TS]

  but if you haven't got into listening to books as well then you really should. [TS]

  One of the things I really like about audio books is it can actually be a shared experience if you want to you could be [TS]

  lying in bed with your partner or going to drive with friends maybe just sitting on a train [TS]

  and using one of those headphones splitters. [TS]

  Either way it's really cool listening to a book with someone else because at the end of the chapter you can discuss [TS]

  what just unfolded and what you think might happen next. Now one of the generals I really like. [TS]

  All your books [TS]

  and I've discussed this before is mountaineering I think there's something about that kind of narrative diary style of [TS]

  mountain books that really makes it compelling as a listen especially if you're listening while doing something [TS]

  outdoorsy itself. Everest books are always a favorite of mine but I also have to admit Cato books are also great. [TS]

  That's them going to recommend a book and I recommend it before K two life [TS]

  and death on the world's most dangerous mountain by Ed Viesturs and David Roberts. [TS]

  I'm sorry if I can't pronounce its name [TS]

  but I'm pretty sure I got David's right this is a great mix of first person account and history of the man. [TS]

  Really good listen it's unabridged so you won't miss a thing. [TS]

  I listen to this one while I was on a mountain trip myself and it really stuck with me now. [TS]

  Maybe mountains are your thing but no matter what you're into I can almost guarantee audible havoc [TS]

  and if you sign on for an audible trial you can get your first book for free. [TS]

  It can't pay that we've done it here in my household and maybe you should. [TS]

  If you decide you don't want to do I ask only one favor do a vine of the U.R.L. [TS]

  or To Vote dot com slash hello internet. That would tell them you heard about all of all on the podcast here. [TS]

  And who knows maybe those sponsors again one day. [TS]

  But either way thanks to all the bill today they're big supporters of podcasts including us [TS]

  and they're top of the pile when it comes to audiobooks. [TS]

  Let's move on to the thing that everyone wants us to talk about. Oh what is that Brady. The F. Word the F. [TS]

  Word flags all the flag a portion of our show. [TS]

  We have we have reached a critical mass of different things happening and requests and tweets [TS]

  and e-mails for us to no longer be able to ignore the what the people want and what the people want. [TS]

  It's great talk [TS]

  and play it out at our show notes for a long time I have had a flag corner with a few things that I wanted to discuss. [TS]

  But on any particular show it always felt a bit out of place. [TS]

  But you are entirely right there has been a critical mass of flag news recently. [TS]

  Now that it is time to talk about I want to start with what is the most exciting piece of flag news which is the New [TS]

  Zealand flag referendum this is a no brainer for me I can't believe we're even having a referendum. [TS]

  This is the easiest decision in the history of flag I don't know where you're going with this. [TS]

  So why do you think it's so easy if they are going to ditch the current flag which I think they should they just made a [TS]

  plain black flag with a silver Vanna White turn in the center. But that is their flag already boom. [TS]

  I could not agree more with you. Oh that's no fun. That's no good. [TS]

  I think the whole purpose of a great it doesn't want to be the purpose of our podcast [TS]

  but I will say a few years ago on the Vexillology sub Reddit I saw someone basically do a kind of modified version of [TS]

  the black background and the silver fern leaf [TS]

  and the instant I saw that I thought man that is just a much better flag for New Zealand [TS]

  and it is also I think fits one of the criteria that it is distinct. [TS]

  There are not very many black flags [TS]

  and it makes New Zealand stand out if you are looking at a list of all of the flags of the world. [TS]

  It's great looking I mean how familiar was New Zealand sort of rugby pedigree Dimly I mean I know the team is called [TS]

  the All Blacks and they did a little dance the haka a little bit. Yes a little dances. [TS]

  It's a whole it's more of a war dance that little dance [TS]

  but I didn't mean me to say that it was that it was it was the the All Blacks being dainty and right. [TS]

  Giving little spins and things. Everybody knows what it is they're standing in front of the Australian rugby team. [TS]

  If you'd like to ensure decoder ring. Yes Shake shake in the churches. Exactly right. [TS]

  First I first came across this on on a documentary that I'm going to recommend which is called murderball. [TS]

  I don't know if you've seen this or not. [TS]

  I think I have a murderball of this documentary which is about wheelchair rugby. [TS]

  I really like stuff that I expect to not like it all going into it and so I was thinking oh a documentary about sports. [TS]

  I thought I'm going to have a hard time with this one. [TS]

  I don't know I don't know if I have a lot of interest in this is like. But man was this amazing to watch. [TS]

  And it is about these guys who have for various reasons become paralyzed in some way or other [TS]

  but playing wheelchair rugby and I'm thinking like oh God what you know how are they going to handle it. [TS]

  And they are just brutal with each other and it is an amazing documentary to go score. Yeah. [TS]

  And it's a very I had to say that the whole way that it works in the Paralympic Games was very interesting that they [TS]

  actually they assign points based on how able bodied the various players are. [TS]

  And so a team has a certain number of points that they need to distribute among their their players. [TS]

  But I would like more able bodied players cost them more point wise which is their way of keeping everything very very [TS]

  interesting. But I was actually in that documentary that the New Zealand team was doing the Haka. [TS]

  This is just an intimidating war dance. You know it's it's a very it's a very impressive thing to see. [TS]

  And that's I think that's probably the first place I ever came across this [TS]

  when I mention this is a thing that the regular rugby team does [TS]

  and so of course the Paralympic rugby team is going to do it as well. [TS]

  Anyway if anybody hasn't seen it I highly recommend murderball but that is that is now the entire. [TS]

  Thirty of my knowledge about the New Zealand rugby team. [TS]

  Well I mean obviously the pride of New Zealand and they wear the black with the super fan [TS]

  and I tell you why the New Zealand Government has got this website where everyone has like submitted possible flag [TS]

  designs and we'll put a link in the shiners and you can spend hours going through all these designs. [TS]

  It just seems like a total waste of time to me. I mean it's just delaying the inevitable. [TS]

  If they don't if they don't use that as their flag and they go for some compromise which is half the old one [TS]

  and half the black with the fan out there that would be a mistake the first thing I wanted to know [TS]

  when I hear there's going to be a referendum is how are they going to vote [TS]

  or what the voting this is going to be this is this is even more than looking at the flag designs this is the thing I [TS]

  spent time trying to find out is going oh wow OK the referendum has been approved how is this going to work. [TS]

  I think they've done a very interesting very good way of doing this which is step one is the website we're looking at [TS]

  we're basically anybody [TS]

  and I think if anybody in the world you don't even have to be from New Zealand can submit a flag design so they can [TS]

  sabotage the process right. You can attempt to sabotage the process right. [TS]

  You can submit a flag design of I don't know New Zealand being attacked by a jellyfish [TS]

  and then Australia urinating on them I guess is that what your black design would think it would more likely be OK with [TS]

  that sheep jokes so easy you got to keep it simple you got to keep it simple for the New Zealanders. [TS]

  There are simple earth simple folk across the Tasman the New Zealanders tweet Brady. [TS]

  We as a people can submit these various designs [TS]

  and just like we were saying before I think this is exactly what you want to do if you are having some kind of [TS]

  competition you want to open it up to everyone who can potentially contribute. [TS]

  Are you calling this consultation or just lip service. [TS]

  What do you mean like they really are they just doing it so they can say they did it. We listen to everyone. [TS]

  Or are they really looking at the stuff I'm putting into the mix. [TS]

  I'll get to this in just a second so to me one of the great examples of why you want to open up design competitions in [TS]

  particular to the whole world is taking a look at the twenty twelve London Olympics versus the twenty ten Vancouver [TS]

  Olympics and if anyone caus [TS]

  and looked it up the London Olympics had some of the worst design iconography I have every seen [TS]

  and a horrible horrible one eye monster logo creatures that were just terrified of him. [TS]

  They were they were dreadful and. And Lisa Simpson like I was terrible to look at times. [TS]

  Yeah that Lisa Simpson logo it was it was absolutely awful. [TS]

  Everything about the London the London stuff was just terrible [TS]

  and I remember you know as mascots let me pull up a picture just so I could see them you know God. [TS]

  They were like that with droplets of steel. [TS]

  Yeah I mean that was I thought a little video that they were supposed to be these little droplets of steel you know [TS]

  where you the U.K. Is trying to hearken back to their manufacturing glory days or whatever. [TS]

  But the but I mean I don't think anybody could look at these things and not not think they are metallic. [TS]

  One night penis monsters right like this. There's no other way to describe these creatures. They're horrifying. [TS]

  Yeah and but everything about the London stuff was just Sastre [TS]

  and I used to walk by this store in a very populated area that was an Olympics store that was selling stuffed monster [TS]

  creatures for sale for people. I never saw a single child in that store buying anything for the two year run up. [TS]

  That they had at their that store was abandoned all the time it was it was a sit down ding especially given given the [TS]

  location of where it was so the No one was was just done basically by a committee of people who were appointed to [TS]

  design the thing and on the flip side the Vancouver won the twenty ten was beautiful. [TS]

  Then they had these excellent mascots. The design iconography was really good. [TS]

  They incorporated like the local culture but that it also had this kind of Asian flair to it [TS]

  and it was it was just great and my wife and I happened to be in Vancouver to the run up to the Olympics [TS]

  and I don't care about sports at all. [TS]

  But everywhere we went into the stores I thought I want to buy stuffed animals of all of the little creatures they're [TS]

  amazing and I want to buy clothing with the twenty ten Olympics it's all beautiful and gorgeous and I looked into it [TS]

  and the way the Vancouver process was done was they just opened it up to anybody and said design our logos [TS]

  and mascots and we want to see what anybody can come up with and it was just a pair of two people. [TS]

  It was like a husband and wife design firm [TS]

  or something that won the contract to do all of the design work for the entire Olympics. [TS]

  I'm looking at them now I can see why that would appeal to you they look like a C G P graven stuffed animals in real [TS]

  life were just great [TS]

  and they even put together very little animation stories it was just it was perfect I don't think there has ever been [TS]

  or will ever be a better design to lympics than that one. It was it was astounding. [TS]

  So so I think I think New Zealand is taking the right approach here basically by doing this competition of saying [TS]

  anyone can try to design a flag. [TS]

  Now even though you and I both already know I think many people have the idea of what the New Zealand flag should be. [TS]

  You never know somebody might come along with something that was really amazing that nobody ever thought of that people [TS]

  actually do like better but the way this process is going to work is that of all of the ones that are created. [TS]

  New Zealand has then put together a committee of people who will. [TS]

  A select from the ones submitted for that are going to go to a referendum to the public along with including our Along [TS]

  with the existing one excluding the existing flag. [TS]

  So they are going to have four designs that have been selected by a committee. [TS]

  And [TS]

  when you're doing a public design this is exactly the way I think you should do it because if you just tell the Internet [TS]

  Hey internet vote up the four that you think are the best and we'll have a public referendum on that. [TS]

  You don't want to give the internet that kind of control right because people will organize all kinds of craziness just [TS]

  like the dumbest flag that right it'll be a disaster. [TS]

  So you do need some kind of filter here where people can select for like [TS]

  when you tweet what should we talk about on the podcast and then we just talk about what we want. [TS]

  Yeah basically right where I don't actually tell people go to a site where you can vote on things [TS]

  and we promise we'll talk about the important right because you're just inviting disaster. [TS]

  You know that would never happen to be a lot more pain as monsters. Exactly. [TS]

  Every week or even just just as a slight side note here very often when when you go to lectures and things and they [TS]

  and they do that moment of oh we're going to take questions from the audience you know people have given it is a speech [TS]

  or you go to a debate or something the questions from the audience questions from the audience is always just awful. [TS]

  It's often it's often not great. [TS]

  It's much better if you have someone who is a moderator who is going through the questions that people have asked [TS]

  and then trying to select the more interesting ones. I have two other lessons for that right. [TS]

  This is this is this is going on a diversion of your diversion divert away. [TS]

  I have strong feelings on calling up on questions. [TS]

  There are two things you should never you should never put a microphone at the front [TS]

  and invite people to come forward to the microphone that assassins' attracts nutters. [TS]

  It doesn't attract normal people because normal people don't want to get up and make a spectacle of themselves. [TS]

  But you are selecting for people who have to kill or breed when you do that [TS]

  and the other thing you never do is call on people who are wearing hats where people who are wearing hats always ask [TS]

  ridiculous stupid or questions that should not be asked. [TS]

  This why a hat was it was your go to example we were discussing weirdo pointless and several paragraphs ago. [TS]

  Someone who wears a hat to a lecture. [TS]

  Very very probable to be weird and when I [TS]

  and then ask somebody political controversial question everything makes everyone in the room feel awkward as a member [TS]

  of the audience you can sometimes feel that the moderators are bending the questions [TS]

  or they're just trying to select softballs at the end things [TS]

  but really it's much better if you have someone who filters a little bit [TS]

  or picks a good question that is representative of the rest. That's what you want. [TS]

  So that's why New Zealand has had this committee right you don't just open up entirely they're going to select for it's [TS]

  going to a public vote [TS]

  and I was very pleased to see that New Zealand is using a preferential voting system which looks like it's some [TS]

  variation of the Alternative Vote where people can then order how they like those four [TS]

  and they only have to do it as far as they want so they can just say oh this one's my first favorite this one's my [TS]

  second favorite. And they don't care about the others. [TS]

  Or they can just say which is their favorite or they can rank all four [TS]

  and then the winner from that referendum goes head to head against the current New Zealand flag. The Super Bowl. [TS]

  Yes And then there it's just that this is the this is the only time that first past the post makes any sense because [TS]

  it's identical to every other voting system in this circumstance if you have two candidates [TS]

  and you need to select one you pick whichever one gets the most votes and it's a totally reasonable way to do it. [TS]

  Yeah the two round thing is very interesting I think it it gives the current flag more of an advantage more of an edge [TS]

  in the film. Because it doesn't have to compete against all of them. It only competes against the best of them. [TS]

  That's fair enough that's as it should be if you ask me. [TS]

  Yeah at first I thought well I don't like that [TS]

  but upon reflection I agreed that yes I think it is fair in a situation like a national flag to give the national flag [TS]

  a little bit of an edge in the in the voting system. [TS]

  But overall I have to say thumbs up New Zealand you know that they did a very good job selecting how this process is [TS]

  going to go [TS]

  and I will be very curious following it is that fifty point zero zero zero one percent of the population triggers a [TS]

  flag change or does it have to be about two thirds to change the flag [TS]

  or the description that I read is it is just a straight First Past the Post or a plurality vote. [TS]

  OK so if if the if the new flag gets fifty percent plus one vote then the changes made. [TS]

  OK I may be wrong about that but that's the impression I got from reading through the doc [TS]

  and I'm going to try him out my New Zealand and find out what the what the feeling is over there. [TS]

  He'll ask a few of his mates pretty much know the result of the election. [TS]

  Is your friend a sheep I don't think I know that they do in New Zealand they do the three fifths for sheep [TS]

  or how does that work. No I don't know they say that they're fully for citizens. Well well yeah very progressive. [TS]

  I imagine you're going to ask me about the strength in fact which for all intents [TS]

  and purposes looks just like well this is a trillion. [TS]

  How do you feel about this because the whole world can tell your flags apart. Yeah I'll tell you a story. [TS]

  When I was [TS]

  when I was in high school I was entered in one of these like you know Lions Club is so I like Rotary Lions Club Rotary [TS]

  Club I know yet the Lions Club is like like the Rotary Club [TS]

  and they had this thing it was called the youth of the year or something [TS]

  and each school nominated someone to be like they're like upstanding person and you had to do like all these. [TS]

  Like interviews going on and we would somehow judged [TS]

  and the final part of the judging was you had to go to the Lions Club meeting one evening and public speaking. [TS]

  So you give a prepared talk about the subject of your choice and then you'll be put on the spot [TS]

  and asked like a question you underpay for so I went there against these two either two [TS]

  or three other students from schools in my area and [TS]

  when the question time came the question was What do you think about this training flag should be striving for [TS]

  and I was like and I was thinking and I think I mean I would argue for anything [TS]

  but I think my overall feeling is we probably should change the flag but I looked out of the audience [TS]

  and it was just all these old men like in their set in their sixty's and seventy's and I do my own eons. [TS]

  I knew my audience so I went into this stirring speech about you know history and wars and things like that [TS]

  and the flag people die for the flag and that which is like a really serious thing [TS]

  and it got like a rousing rousing reception of standing ovation is my memory. [TS]

  Maybe I'm maybe I'm giving that one a bit. [TS]

  I think that was an accurate but I won I won the contest [TS]

  and it was actually something that I'm all about in the end I guess if you think that's a blessing in disguise [TS]

  and like I think I got like a check for one hundred dollars or something and I thought I was a millionaire [TS]

  and I was amazing. [TS]

  But the problem was because I won I got sent off to like the regional final against all the other winners small the [TS]

  other places and these were people unlike me who were really good at public speaking [TS]

  and were really good at debating and really good at thinking on their fate. [TS]

  And this time it was like a huge hole full of hundreds and hundreds of people [TS]

  and because I had surprisingly one like my regional hate like the head of my school came along to Washington. [TS]

  No Brady must be pretty good girl and you can watch this. [TS]

  And in that when I got up on stage and I was asked some questions I was unprepared for [TS]

  and I had no idea I don't even think I understood the question and I just died on stage and ID lied and the [TS]

  and the other people the other students weren't allowed to watch until they had done this and I was first. [TS]

  So I got up on stage and just died and humiliated myself and just just slunk off like a into hate [TS]

  and then the other day I had to sit in the audience for the next four of super overachievers who each got up on stage [TS]

  to the same question and just nailed it. [TS]

  Time after time after time and each time I was thinking oh why didn't I think of that course. [TS]

  Oh they're so clever it was terrible. [TS]

  I'd much rather have failed at the original hay in front of like forty people in a small room then on the big stage so [TS]

  I got my comeuppance. The moral of that story is don't succeed and get the yeah you'll just be promoted until you fail. [TS]

  Yeah exactly just glory glory stage. So the Astrarium back to you know whatever. [TS]

  Yeah I figured you would you would not really have a strong opinion about. [TS]

  I kind of think the thing is in the case of New Zealand there's just like an obvious choice like they already have a [TS]

  flag the fact they haven't but the fact they're not using that flag is almost silly you know. [TS]

  And in the case of Australia there's no real obvious standout contender other than maybe the Aboriginal flag which is a [TS]

  brilliant flag but that's just the Aboriginal flag [TS]

  and you couldn't really adopt a national flag because because it has been taken by one group [TS]

  but I mean the Aboriginal facts fantastic like the yellow circle the other son. [TS]

  So it represents before the sun and the condom. [TS]

  That's a pretty good one and it's a good flag you know it's very striking and it's trying to it's right. [TS]

  Connick like it's got massive recognition [TS]

  but again it's just got recognition for one group so you know they're very important. [TS]

  You couldn't really do that in national flag. [TS]

  I mean some people say heaviest rain flag but replace the Union Jack with the Aboriginal flag [TS]

  but then we start getting into Pat's lectures on [TS]

  and I'm sure we're going to come out of that the minute the symbolic meaning according to the designer as this is all [TS]

  we could be is that the red the red of the earth [TS]

  and that would have to fit for Australia the yellow of course the sun [TS]

  and then the black is the Aboriginal people of Australia that these are the three colour elements of the flag of course [TS]

  yes of course. [TS]

  Yeah I think US trillion has an obvious choice [TS]

  and that the new US JOINT flag should have again a red earth for the ground [TS]

  and then above it it should just show a cloud raining spiders down on a terrified population that should be the [TS]

  Australian flag. [TS]

  Maybe maybe I mean I mean I would imagine if a study was going to change its flag green [TS]

  and go would be that the sort of two colors associated with this tragedy of Australians. [TS]

  So so sort of a green and yellow colors I'd imagine would pay. [TS]

  In some people's mind and of the green one I think Australia ever. [TS]

  No I know but strangely because it's like the colour a national chain usually wears yellow or green and yellow [TS]

  and like the waterfall flower with the green in the yellows and a Strat in the thing [TS]

  and maybe I'm showing my cricket part of it too much [TS]

  but I think it might be I think as sport teams tend to wear green yellow or green and yellow together. [TS]

  Maybe I'd head that way even though it's not a particularly cool colour combo [TS]

  but what do I know I mean it comes up a lot of strata rages on in these trains like it is a perennial issue. [TS]

  Yeah well I think the reason that it comes. [TS]

  Particularly with New Zealand [TS]

  and Australia is the fact of having the Union Jack on the flag which I was trying to look it up before [TS]

  and I think the only other places that have the Union Jack that are nations anyway are Fiji [TS]

  and two volume I think those are the only nation level places that have the flag that is not associated with it are not [TS]

  a Commonwealth nations or any of the million things I list in my U.K. [TS]

  Video people don't e-mail me talking about independent nations that still have a Union Jack on it. [TS]

  I think those are the only ones. And also don't contact us about the use of union jack versus Union flag. [TS]

  Haven't we done this before. [TS]

  It is both of those terms are completely legitimate [TS]

  but it's too late people have already sent you messages saying you should've said you Jack as it was flying from a ship. [TS]

  Yeah. [TS]

  Which isn't even true this is like how that just drives me crazy [TS]

  but you know whatever this is another falsehood that will just you know be there until the end of time [TS]

  and that's another classic example of one that gets discussed so often. [TS]

  But from both sides that you actually forget which one is right. [TS]

  Like you know like I know one of them is right and one of them from both of them are right they are both right. [TS]

  No no no no I'm talking about. [TS]

  I'm just talking that with union jack like is allowed or not that I can remember [TS]

  but whichever it is there is one I just kind of know which one it is is a little not well it is a left right that both [TS]

  allowed They're both fine. [TS]

  I looked it up with I forgot what it was like that with the Royal flag Association of the U.K. [TS]

  or Something whatever it was like I got confirmation from a primary source. Blacks anyway. [TS]

  So I was just having a pregnant pause I just felt like OK I'm sorry I'll give you a moment to collect your thoughts [TS]

  before we move on to the next bit of flag news so much of it which one unit in X. [TS]

  I want to do the world flag next I I got so many tweets [TS]

  and e-mails about this that I shamed It was a big like burning international story. [TS]

  I'm now beginning to think this is just a little mana thing but it's just inundated Erinn boxes. [TS]

  I know I know nothing about this except what I know from Twitter [TS]

  and I get the impression that this is I don't know what it's like this is just something that that someone made. [TS]

  It's a student project is that what it is that you look at I was trying to find out precisely what it is it's a very [TS]

  well done student project with some kind of peer behind it maybe other nine. [TS]

  Anyway some some person in Sweden I don't even know if it's a man [TS]

  or a woman has designed what I think the flag of planet Earth should pay. [TS]

  Presumably if we go and stick one on the soil of Mars [TS]

  or you know if if we have a need to be represented as a whole planet rather than a nation what would ask like Bay which [TS]

  is quite an interesting intellectual exercise [TS]

  and I think it is that it is an excellent intellectual exercise so to some some people are saying this proposed design [TS]

  by the student. Some people why do you want to have a bash at describing at first. [TS]

  OK So this particular flag for Earth to again to paint an audio picture for the listeners to buy three isn't a two [TS]

  or three real standard two by three ratio it is a blue background slightly more more dark blue the light blue I would [TS]

  saying royal blue maybe royal blue is an excellent excellent description every spot on and in the centre there are on T. [TS]

  There are seven overlapping rings. [TS]

  I'm sitting six on I seventy that's one of the middle seven so there is if you imagine a single ring in the middle [TS]

  and then overlapping around it there are six additional rings. So seven in total and the rings are white. [TS]

  You really need to look at this this is a perfectly adequate description sort of like imagine imagine a row blue [TS]

  background and imagine the five of them big rings but there are seven of them instead and they're all white [TS]

  and they're interlocking and they've been bunched into the center a bit more rather than spread out. [TS]

  The way the Olympic rings are. [TS]

  Yes And the way the design is done is to give you the impression that they are interlocked. [TS]

  So there is their little cut outs around the edges are you trying to see like oh this ring goes over that ring so it [TS]

  interlock in all of these various ways sort of a bar and ring with thing going on a kind of flower. Yes I can to my. [TS]

  Yeah I can see it's almost like. Makes me think of the cow almost. Yeah yeah yeah. [TS]

  Or is it like the Japanese provincial flag it has that feel to it. [TS]

  So there we go we've had a description [TS]

  and before we talk about whatever we're going to talk about what do you like your verdict on what do you think of it. [TS]

  If this was if someone said this is going to be the flag of Earth from now on would you be angry happy so where would [TS]

  you stand on this was chosen I think this is I think this is terribly boring design. [TS]

  It's ages is a yawn task is the way I would describe this design. [TS]

  Earth is amazing and this flag I feel like it captures literally nothing that is Earth like or [TS]

  or that relates to the excitement of of the planet Earth. [TS]

  So I'm just I don't think it is a bad flag design I think it's kind of a good looking flag [TS]

  but for something else I don't I don't see how this this doesn't make me think of earth in any way I don't think it is [TS]

  it is a good enough symbol to be representative of an entire planet. [TS]

  I don't I don't I don't like it but what do you think a lot. [TS]

  Well all come on BRADY You know I was so sure that she wouldn't like it. [TS]

  I was not always sure when I when I found that what I was and I went to click on. [TS]

  I went to it not wanting to like it and when I first looked at I thought I don't like it [TS]

  and I started thinking about the reasons I don't like. [TS]

  And the more of the more I thought about it the more I think kudos my friend. Kudos ask Pat and failed. [TS]

  I'm not sure it would be my first choice or would win a vote and I think there has its deficiencies [TS]

  but I wouldn't I wouldn't like to leave the planet in a huff if it was decided that this was going to be a lengthy [TS]

  thing I would think. Not their choice actually not a bad choice I think. [TS]

  I think it kind of it it kind of is sufficiently abstract to know anyone [TS]

  and yet it kind of makes me think of it because although we think of it as you know things sort of very green really [TS]

  from space it really is pretty blue. And this does look like a big blue sea with sort of a white cloud. [TS]

  And yet the rings have a kind of an aspiration to them of sort of togetherness that we aspire to [TS]

  and an extra level of organization beyond beyond just the haphazardness of nature that is symbolic of a humanity [TS]

  and I think I think it's pretty good. I think it's a little bit finnicky day and find out maybe for a big flag. [TS]

  But overall I think it's a really good effort. [TS]

  I think it is a good flag but I just don't think that it fit for the flag of our earth [TS]

  and I do also agree that there is too much detail in it. [TS]

  The overlapping this of the Rings is kind of where it falls down for me in that it's too it's too precise. [TS]

  And he particularly for a flag for Earth I feel it needs to be crystal clear at a distance [TS]

  and there's just too much too much on this one I got to say. [TS]

  Yeah and it's a perfect example for me is on the Web site itself if you're looking at it in the brown. [TS]

  As Or I don't know if you have it open right now. I don't have open. Does your browser have. [TS]

  If you're in Chrome you'll see the have the favorite icon you know on the top of the browser where it shows like a [TS]

  little picture that represents the whole page. [TS]

  Yeah I can say that and you lose all the data right now to me the flag of Earth. [TS]

  It has to be distinct at that I think is like thirty two pixel by thirty two pixels. [TS]

  Fav icon size and it is not distinct at that size on the web page I will say [TS]

  when you start saying it because it's been on this Web site it's been rendered in various locations like an astronaut [TS]

  uniforms and making holes and things like that. [TS]

  It does start to look a little bit corporate [TS]

  and market was designed by the European Union like it does it does start to it does go a bit far down that path. [TS]

  I'll give you that but you know the American flag the most iconic of flags is incredibly fussy [TS]

  but a little like a little kid could never draw I mean we must have discussed this before I'm not a fan of the American [TS]

  flag. [TS]

  I think the American flag is way too busy and is kind of hideous You know like your work for America [TS]

  but I am I am not a big fan of the American flag [TS]

  and I know why there's thirteen scribes like thirteen stripes too many fifty stars I mean come on who are you who are [TS]

  you kidding. [TS]

  And [TS]

  when it eventually get to fifty one it's going to be hideous for everybody who likes things neatly arranged on the very [TS]

  last picture on this page is the earth flag next to the American flag [TS]

  and they both suffer from the same design problem in my mind of it's like too much too much going on on this flag [TS]

  but I know that from a distance. [TS]

  Earth is mostly blue and white [TS]

  but I think if you have humans making a flag about Earth that they are planting on other planets [TS]

  and using to represent themselves you have to have it be blue and green at the very minimum. [TS]

  Like there needs to be a green design element [TS]

  and if you don't have that I feel like I'm not going to get on board with your Earth flag there has to be green on it [TS]

  otherwise I'm not and I'm not getting onboard with us. [TS]

  I initially thought that and was really surprised at first when I didn't say green [TS]

  and my thinking on that has changed and I think it doesn't need grain but I understand why you say that [TS]

  but I think I don't know I think you're showing a kind of a prejudice. [TS]

  I'm showing some some land mammal centrism here is what I'm doing. [TS]

  Fair enough it is a flag designed by humans like you said I just think that it doesn't need that. [TS]

  I think they're I think that would almost be a cliche because at first I thought clearly it's going to have you know a [TS]

  global some kind of thing or you know round objects to represent a planet floating in space. [TS]

  But then it occurred to me if all the planets in the universe had flags they wouldn't be planets [TS]

  but I don't think that was special because they were a sphere floating in space [TS]

  and that's not that's not what makes us special and workwise like life and plant life and things like that. [TS]

  Probably also not what makes us special. What does make a special I don't know. [TS]

  Do the seven rings represent the fact we're where loosely arranged the seven continents I don't know [TS]

  but if so OK that's you know that's well that's something unique to us in a way [TS]

  and I think I think the flag should project what we think is unique about us compared to what other planets may be like [TS]

  as opposed to just you know being a planet if you want to be what's unique about us [TS]

  and it should be a flag of a monkey. That's what's going to actually be unique about our planet versus other planets. [TS]

  I totally agree with you that if we're having some kind of United Federation of Planets everybody is going to show up [TS]

  with their circle on a black background with the colors of the planet flag and like oh this is embarrassing. [TS]

  So I agree with you that the most obvious thing cannot possibly actually be the choice. [TS]

  Actually we're going to run into other civilizations just like this doesn't work at all. [TS]

  Yeah and that also does increase Incredibly the likelihood that they're going to be blue and green combinations. [TS]

  Yeah Green has to do with photosynthesis. [TS]

  That's not going to be an unusual color out there in the universe it is not an easy project. [TS]

  What I was trying to look up what we were talking and I almost can't believe it [TS]

  but as I have mentioned many times before one of my favorites about it is the Vexillology sub Reddit [TS]

  and one of the things they do that I adore is almost every month they have a design competition for flags Yeah [TS]

  and they often just pick some kind of interesting in arbitrary contests of They'll say Oh make a flag for the Internet [TS]

  or make a flag for this other thing and I was trying to find it I can't. [TS]

  I almost can't believe that they haven't done it [TS]

  but I can't just googling around find a Vexillology contest for a flag for Earth. [TS]

  I will put it in the show notes if I find it later. But I would love to see with the people at factual A-G. [TS]

  Come up with because they come up with just great great flag design sometimes for all kinds of things in a soon as you [TS]

  see it you think yes that is that is perfect. [TS]

  You've designed a better flag for read it and read it could ever design for read it [TS]

  or yes this is a great flag for the Internet or yes this is a perfect flag for Antarctica. [TS]

  What about like the hello internet. [TS]

  I believe it's a great flag with the words high not because you wouldn't allow words on a flag. [TS]

  So how we're going to get around. I mean obviously it has to be gray colored. [TS]

  Yeah because you shoehorn that branding in before we even launched so I never you approved of the logo before we [TS]

  launched. Yeah yeah designs. You didn't have any alternatives. There was no shoe horning. [TS]

  Now I know I would be very curious to see what the Internet can come up with with alternative flags for hello internet. [TS]

  I do agree that the letters are the letters are problematic. Our show has almost literally no other design elements. [TS]

  Yeah [TS]

  and I think I think how the Internet has become has become so big now that it probably even transcends conventional flag [TS]

  design rules. Yes that's true that's true worldwide phenomenon. Yeah. [TS]

  So just before we leave this world flag thing can you give me any more ideas about what a great designer world would [TS]

  look like I know I know you don't claim to be the world's strongest designer [TS]

  but I've said before this is why I am very interested in design is precisely because I am not good at it [TS]

  and on the occasions I have tried to do stuff like this it always turns out comically childish [TS]

  and that is why the art style in my videos is often comically childish it's not like this is not one of my favorite [TS]

  people on the Internet is Allie Brosh who does an excellent website called Hyperbole [TS]

  and a half just filled with brilliant brilliant writing and she has an art style that is very childish [TS]

  but it is intentionally childish and she occasionally posts or actual artwork and it is phenomenal. [TS]

  Whereas my childish artwork is actually the peak of my abilities like I'm concentrating really hard in sticking out my [TS]

  tongue like while I'm trying to draw these things perfectly. [TS]

  And this is actually the apex of my ability so I I could not come up with anything better than this flag of planet [TS]

  Earth design. All I can be is a real grump and just sit here and say Now thumbs down. [TS]

  I don't like that and they say Wait where's your better flag and I go I don't have one that's that. [TS]

  Yeah well it happens. Well I'm giving it a surprising thumbs up. It's a pride. I didn't want to lie and I did. [TS]

  Now I was sent another flag link during the wake because a TED talk by Roman. [TS]

  So he's the host of ninety nine percent visit Oh yeah which I have of this in too much by now you know. [TS]

  Yes I highly recommend it. Hey did a TED Talk about flags and I don't really watch many TED talk. [TS]

  Just because they're a bit too long. Seventeen minutes was more than willing to spend in a day. [TS]

  But but so many people had sent it to me and I knew it was going to talk about flags on the part of the ball [TS]

  and I thought OK I'll start watching it. Turns out it was a fabulous talk. I really recommend it. [TS]

  I really enjoyed it will put the link in the shiners [TS]

  but the one thing that did strike me was it was almost like a mirror image of a sudden stop here for a second. [TS]

  OK stop here for a second. Now I'm stuck with a few dozen as I have not watched this video. [TS]

  OK And I have not watched the video for a very particular reason which is that I totally love the ninety nine percent [TS]

  of visible pod cast is excellent. [TS]

  Roman Mars does an amazing job but I have to say [TS]

  when I saw all of this stuff coming out on Twitter I was absolutely crushed because my intended video for this month [TS]

  was called How to design a flag and when I saw all of this stuff coming out I knew my one of my my constant fears [TS]

  and the problem with being so slow at making videos is this kind of moment of getting scooped in a sense by someone [TS]

  else scooped in gigantic quotation marks here because like if it was that made up nobody owns the facts. [TS]

  But when when your life is about making viral videos you know that there is only so much time [TS]

  and attention for a particular topic in a particular time frame [TS]

  and so I thought oh man I've got it I've got to shelve this project and normally I would disagree grey [TS]

  and say no no no don't be silly gray like there's room enough for everyone [TS]

  but if your video is about what I imagine your video would be about. You've been talking. Here's what I want to guess. [TS]

  I want to guess what the. Structure of his video is OK and if I guess right then we can keep talking about it. [TS]

  OK but if I make a guess [TS]

  and I'm wrong then there is a potential for me to sometimes do a video about this in the future [TS]

  but my guess is that Roman Mars went through the design guidelines from the North American vector logical Association [TS]

  and used various flags as examples of why they're good or why they're not good. Correct. So is there. [TS]

  It's done it's dead. [TS]

  I'm sorry if it was it was crushing [TS]

  and I have I have actually been I've actually been kind of floundering the last two weeks [TS]

  or so trying to figure out what I'm going to be working on as my next project has like a man if this had just been a [TS]

  little longer I could have scooped it. [TS]

  I could have beaten it [TS]

  but I mean I mean I can imagine what your video would be like based on our extensive talk about flags in a previous [TS]

  protest but you know because you talked about a lot of those things [TS]

  and I imagine a lot of those things you said would inform your video and [TS]

  when I watched this TED video it was so similar and it's so cold all the things you said and believe about legs [TS]

  and all the things you said that I actually thought something suspicious was going on. I thought either. [TS]

  Hey listen to our podcast which is incredibly unlikely or you had heard him talk about this before [TS]

  and it so informs your thinking that you were kind of parroting what he says [TS]

  or the third option which is probably the true action is that you go I should think the exact same thing about flags [TS]

  and it's based on these design guidelines because it is Ted this TED talk was like deja vu all over again for a protest [TS]

  room in Mars [TS]

  and I are drawing from the same source material yet which I recently came across actually from the Reddit that logical [TS]

  association because I really came across from the the Reddit like a logical sub read it because they linked. [TS]

  Do those design guidelines every time they talk about the flag competition as like by the way unless you really know [TS]

  what you're doing you should probably stick to these rules [TS]

  and a long time ago I tried to get in contact with the association to tell them why I'm working on a video about this I [TS]

  would you know I would like to get your approval and like some some be back and talk to some people [TS]

  and they never responded to me [TS]

  and then maybe about three months ago I decided I'm going to move ahead with this project anyway even if I just never [TS]

  hear from from this association. [TS]

  And yes so this this had been my big project for a while and then [TS]

  when I saw on Twitter everybody was suddenly talking about Roman Mars and flags. I know exactly what happened here. [TS]

  This his his TED talk is going to be the canonical one and there is no point there's no point in continuing with this. [TS]

  So well I mean I mean you will reach a wholly insane wouldn't [TS]

  and I think I think there's room enough for both of you and I would love to see you do it but I know you well enough [TS]

  and I think it's also a bit of professional prodigy that I mean this happens to me all the time. [TS]

  This happens to me because I'm experimenting with videos and I make a number file video [TS]

  and you know vi has done that before or you know so [TS]

  and so has done already done a video on that mathematical thing this is like I'm very thick skinned to it [TS]

  and I just realize we just don't know what each other is doing [TS]

  and if you've been working on that project for a few months then one stop because he did it it might you know it will [TS]

  result in some comments of people saying oh you copied him. [TS]

  Well they're they're wrong [TS]

  and if they think they know because you want to do you want to say as well to your audience and you should. [TS]

  But anyway yeah well it is an interesting point to discuss because I'm not concerned about people talking about copying [TS]

  because I get enough of those comments from people where other people make videos on the same topic that I have made [TS]

  and then people alert me. [TS]

  Two people who are ripping me off and it's like no dude we just made a video about the same thing. Yeah. Or vice versa. [TS]

  This just happens all the time and that's totally totally fine. So yes this is the. [TS]

  Nobody owns the facts thing everybody gets to make a video and you can do it on whatever topic it is and it is. [TS]

  It is very natural as well that videos that cover the same topic will often have the same structure. [TS]

  Yep [TS]

  and that's precisely the reason why I always know that if I'm planning to do a video I can't watch other people's videos [TS]

  on the same topic because then the way they explain something gets in your brain [TS]

  and it blocks out your ability to come up with your own way to explain something. [TS]

  Or perhaps you would focus on something slightly differently [TS]

  but you see how someone else did it so that's why like I'm not watching I'm not watching the Roman Mars thing. [TS]

  But more importantly is I'm really aware that because I make fewer videos videos that I do make need to be more popular. [TS]

  So it's actually to put a grotesque way it's a financial decision. You think you think it's less likely to go viral. [TS]

  It's not so much a financial decision. I wouldn't say it's directly that but it's just I have this I have this. [TS]

  I think it's like this is a news metaphor talking about oxygen in the room for various topics I feel like this comes [TS]

  from news desks. [TS]

  But I feel sometimes I feel like oh [TS]

  when I'm selecting topics it's like it's like I'm walking around in a in a mansion that has an like a almost an [TS]

  infinite number of rooms and each room is a potential topic for a video. [TS]

  And over time some of those rooms build up an amount of oxygen inside them so that if you open them up at the right [TS]

  time and throw in a little candle they make a big explosion and it's exciting. [TS]

  And after any particular explosion the oxygen will build up again. But like. [TS]

  Roman Mars has just thrown a candle into the room about flag design. [TS]

  Yeah and so even if I ever want to do that topic which I mean because it's something that I really do like. [TS]

  I may still make that video at some point in the future [TS]

  but it'll be a long time before that room fills up with oxygen again in a way that people would want to see another [TS]

  video about flag design. [TS]

  So that's kind of the way I think about it is is it's I mean like my videos make more money if more people watch them. [TS]

  But but for me it's much more directly related to the interest in this topic has been burned up. [TS]

  And so I might as well pick something else and so that [TS]

  but definitely a terrifying thing to do is a slightly side note here is that my my other video that I want to switch [TS]

  part of the reason that I've been kind of floundering is because the other big video that I want to do now I am ninety [TS]

  eight percent sure that there is somebody else who is working on the exact same topic [TS]

  and will probably be able to beat me to that one as well. [TS]

  So you know a little bit like you know I got like surprise kicked in the pants once [TS]

  and then the next thing that I want to do I feel like I don't necessarily want to start that because I'm pretty sure [TS]

  I'm going to be scooped by that one too. Let me come back to your oxygen rooms again. [TS]

  Where is where is the difference between the room's oxygen being stolen and taken up by someone I remember. [TS]

  And a topic generating more interest and more oxygen [TS]

  and you think right away like because there's two things that go on there isn't one argument is well that's been done [TS]

  and the other one is all this is created a lot of interest. [TS]

  And I can I can feed on that interest and make something a you know even bigger and better. [TS]

  Like for example when you when you make videos around election. [TS]

  Time surely you would think someone would say it was surely all the Varilux election oxygen has been depleted [TS]

  and yet that's just when you put out an election video because you think interest is at an all time high. [TS]

  So this is in the You Tube business lingo tentpole event. Yeah which is a phrase that I hate. [TS]

  But yes the idea of big events that lots of people want to make videos about here [TS]

  and in my view what those are is I mean the analogy doesn't work perfectly [TS]

  but in some ways they are rooms that are so big that they can't possibly explode all at once. [TS]

  Yeah right so they're there's room for multiple explosions because there's just like an enormous amount of interest in [TS]

  them and over and there's a lot of extra hate in there because of all those candles. [TS]

  Yes Yes There's a lot yeah there's a lot going on. [TS]

  But what has been the case sometimes when [TS]

  when talking with other creators is you're also aware that even around big events like that if if everybody's working [TS]

  on something you still want people to each have a different angle on a thing. Yeah. [TS]

  And everybody can't quite do the exact same topic that that then just because well one of them will end up becoming the [TS]

  the main video about this thing [TS]

  and the others end up looking like pale limitations even though that's not necessarily really the case is just kind of [TS]

  by chance which one happens to be the one that catches on. [TS]

  The reason why I wanted to guess about what Roman Mars did is because I thought that that's that's probably what he [TS]

  would do. [TS]

  And so if I were to do a video about flags right now I would have to pick a very different angle [TS]

  or a very different way to do it. [TS]

  But again because I work so slowly that's not something that I can basically do to do in turn around before the end of [TS]

  the month. [TS]

  Yeah I have to say it was kind of depressing because so many people on Twitter were like you would be so excited about [TS]

  the video on flags like endless tweets from people saying Watch what Robin MORE think it's amazing [TS]

  and all I was like I said. Your home drinking myself into oblivion. [TS]

  Well there are there are those months of work right down the toilet like flushing it away [TS]

  and is going to be really clear here. Roman Mars on the off chance that you're listening. [TS]

  You do an amazing park at and this is nothing against you personally and you've had to it was really good. [TS]

  I assume that your TED talk was really awesome [TS]

  and if you ripped it off from air earlier put a great talked about the guidelines then shame on you. So what he did. [TS]

  Like they were both pulling from the same source. Yeah yeah. [TS]

  So I'm not the person doing that video that you're worried about. [TS]

  Script on the other thing I'm a hound of that's not you know it's not you. [TS]

  OK Because you could tell me I would talk to you about it yeah yeah OK cool. [TS]

  Unthink [TS]

  and I'm thinking about all the things I'm making videos about the moment I'm thinking there's no way Gray would make a [TS]

  video about any of them I guarantee you it's not a thing is not a thing that you're thinking of [TS]

  but the problem is it's a video I've been wanting to make for years and years [TS]

  and have been collecting research research on for years and years [TS]

  and said like God I just I don't like this in the same situation is going to happen again [TS]

  and I just so I'm having a hard time kind of picking and working on. [TS]

  I'm working on a very small project that's not really related to anything but I need another main video [TS]

  and I'm kind of having a hard time selecting the next topic right now [TS]

  but I read a story like a couple of extra percussion stuff. [TS]

  That's a possibility or good as the Internet and they could vote on what my next topic would be [TS]

  and I would promise to do it. [TS]

  This episode is brought to you by a hover hover is the best way to buy and manage domain names [TS]

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  Even the name hover makes it feel airy and light and happy which is what their service is. [TS]

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  Derek D E R E K and you will get ten percent off your first purchase. So that's harvard dot com offer code Derek. [TS]

  Thank you to hover for supporting the show. I saw an article on the B.B.C. [TS]

  Website that I just wanted to briefly mention you see it in the notes called cashless I do. [TS]

  Oh I just noticed that the person who wrote the story is actually someone I know that's one of your reporter friends. [TS]

  Well it's a long story but you're kind of so it said it's their article basically said this is just in the U.K. [TS]

  That cashless payments had overtaken the use of notes and coins for the first time. [TS]

  You know I don't I don't think I need to explain what that means. [TS]

  So obviously you know cards and things like this and all the all the non-cash methods of a company one man explained. [TS]

  Just let your old I think I think people I think people probably get what I what was your initial reaction to that news [TS]

  story the news story was written in a strange way where I thought that they meant things like contactless payments [TS]

  but it seemed like they actually mean all credit card [TS]

  and debit card transactions everything everything everything that is not notes and guns. [TS]

  Yes And so [TS]

  when I realized that that was the angle I found myself actually surprised that that was not already the case. [TS]

  That's exactly my reaction. [TS]

  How can it possibly be that cash transactions have outnumbered debit card and credit card transactions [TS]

  and I was completely amazed by that fact and the other thing [TS]

  and this may be a surprise to me because obviously people would imagine that I'd be Mr Professor in cash in the old [TS]

  fashioned way. [TS]

  I am on board with cash payments because there's nothing I find worse [TS]

  and it happens way too often than going into a place. Well I only except cash. Yeah I can believe us two happens. [TS]

  Yeah I am I am amazed when that occurs when it does happen I almost always feel like are you joking are you kidding me. [TS]

  Is this like some criminal enterprise or should I presume that you're laundering money at the local fish and chip shop. [TS]

  Yeah it absolutely baffles me when a place Mon except cards and I know people write in [TS]

  and say that that the the store owners have to pay the transaction fees on the credit cards. [TS]

  Yeah but I just cannot believe that they're not missing out on more money than they would otherwise. [TS]

  Well no because by the time you find it's normally too late but I guess you think people won't go back next time. [TS]

  Well people don't go back next time [TS]

  or if I see the sign that says cash only nine out of ten times I don't really have any cash on me. [TS]

  Yeah so I can't actually go that's more interesting Lee and I think a little bit not so great though is people [TS]

  when they use credit or debit cards will spend more. [TS]

  So it's not is not necessarily that more customers arrive because you are using a credit card [TS]

  but it is much more likely that a person adds a small amount to their pre-existing order [TS]

  when they're using credit cards or debit cards. People's brains treat physical cash like no other form of exchange. [TS]

  Yeah it's much more real and so if you're asking people to part with notes [TS]

  and coins they are much more parsimonious than if they're just using a credit or debit card. [TS]

  Anon shopping is the next level up to because sometimes if I'm on Amazon I'll start going crazy stuff in the basket [TS]

  then it doesn't even feel real and Amazon gets you with their one click button like Lego I fell on my computer [TS]

  and I bought you know a two hundred dollars thing. [TS]

  It's like wait I didn't even mean to like nope it's already been shipped to your door ding dong right there it is. [TS]

  I was telling I was telling you earlier. [TS]

  Never happened to me today I was there was something I was going for him post by today and and I [TS]

  and it was like it was expensive it was an expensive thing it was like it was two hundred pounds [TS]

  and I clicked to buy I think I was buying it through paper because that's even less real money than no money and [TS]

  and I made the purchase and I was well that's good and I went off and watch some cricket and did some work [TS]

  and then I came back and open my browser and it turns out the transaction hadn't gone through. [TS]

  Something had something had failed and some error message come up and I looked at that [TS]

  and so actually I didn't even want that thing right and I didn't bend didn't buy. So I was like I got saved by. [TS]

  And it makes me wonder how often how often that would happen if two hours later someone came up to you [TS]

  and said oh we show you one of the where the it's actually of course increasing any amount of friction would vastly [TS]

  decrease else we could you imagine if Amazon was required by law to send you an email two hours after every purchase [TS]

  that said Are you sure you want to buy this you have to click yes to continue with the transaction. [TS]

  Sales would plummet out of doubt which sounds crazy because you think Oh people do things deliberately [TS]

  but if there's one thing we know is that people don't do things deliberately that human decisions are extremely context [TS]

  sensitive and I forget the details [TS]

  but what one of one of these studies I was reading about was talking about how like white collar crime [TS]

  and people cheating and how if you if you pay people for getting the correct answers on a test [TS]

  but you trust them to tell you how many they got right. [TS]

  If you're doing the transaction in cash people are much more honest about how many questions they really got right on [TS]

  the test. [TS]

  But if you give them tokens that they can then redeem from a second person in terms of actual money that people like [TS]

  lying just goes through the roof that if you put any kind of level of indirection between the cash money. [TS]

  And the person that it just makes people just think of it like it's less real like oh I'm not really scamming this [TS]

  person out of dollars I'm scamming them out of tokens and those tokens can turn into dollars [TS]

  but it's totally different. I want to say you know I have that problem with their kids. [TS]

  This is precisely why every videogame in every gambling establishment Once you to convert dollars into their own crazy [TS]

  currency for actually spending money so you're not saying oh your money getting Hoover Denish. That's exactly right. [TS]

  That you know it's you know video games are kind of the worst at this [TS]

  or lots lots of other Web sites they want you to have some kind of secondary currency in it because they know people [TS]

  are way more likely to spend the consumer loyalty points all this kind of secondary currency stuff your brain just [TS]

  treats really differently. [TS]

  Always be suspicious [TS]

  when people want you to convert your actual money into some kind of other form of exchangeable money that that is their [TS]

  own proprietary things like chips in a casino. [TS]

  That comment you made before about those on sent e-mails I saying you sure you want to buy this. [TS]

  Did remind me of another so I had just earlier this week actually I was thinking about you know telethons like where [TS]

  they used to do them on my student one takeaway they'll have like a big a big night on T.V. [TS]

  Like on the baby say and they'll have comedians or sports stars and all that [TS]

  and they're all trying to raise money for an event like you know Africa you know starving people in Africa [TS]

  or something and know how to be own not saying give give money give money [TS]

  and these days it will you send a text message or your God and you give money [TS]

  and at the end of the night I say hey we've raised thirty six million pounds isn't that fantastic. And it is fantastic. [TS]

  It's really good thing the thing I was wondering is what was it like in the olden days when you and I were young [TS]

  when those shows used to be on. Because when those shows used to be on a son of a younger viewers might notice. [TS]

  You used his ring up and pledge what you would donate. [TS]

  You'd say I'm going to give ten dollars and they would add that to the list [TS]

  and then at the end of the night they would say hey everyone we've raised thirty six million dollars or pounds [TS]

  or whatever but then you head to the next day or over time to go [TS]

  and give that money somehow like because you couldn't do it over the phone and you know you had to go [TS]

  and give the money someplace and I would say don't forget what your pledge was [TS]

  and make sure you don't give that money to morrow. [TS]

  I would love to know how many people actually saw through their commitment after after saying I'm going to give this [TS]

  money the next day and I had to give it when they were watching the emotional videos of you know people in distress. [TS]

  If I Lance if I still gave the drop off rate must have been enormous [TS]

  and I would I would expect from two things one people does not following through the maybe fifty percent of people just [TS]

  don't follow through there [TS]

  and I would also be very willing to bet that of the people who follow through a big percentage of them give less than [TS]

  they pledged. Yeah. Oh I'll give twenty dollars and then they actually give five dollars. [TS]

  Yeah I'm sure that that it just must have been a huge I mean it's interesting because on some of the fund raising [TS]

  platforms they advise you if you're doing like you know a one time fundraiser [TS]

  or ongoing fundraiser The usual advice that I've seen is to be aware that at least you can expect ten percent failure [TS]

  rate when we actually go to charge everybody's credit cards. Yeah. This system couldn't be any easier. [TS]

  People put in their credit card information it's there it's fine. [TS]

  But then [TS]

  when like the Kickstarter project finishes right off the bat you've lost ten percent of the promised revenue because a [TS]

  credit card transactions don't go through. [TS]

  So I figure that the best case scenario and if that's about ten percent those T.V. [TS]

  Tell of up telethons Yeah I would I wouldn't be surprised if it was just a majority. [TS]

  Have the people don't actually follow through on their their pledge [TS]

  but I would I would love to know actual numbers I would love to know actual numbers. [TS]

  I have purchased and you can hear it here. [TS]

  Getting things done to stress free productivity by David Allen which for those of you who've never listened to the [TS]

  podcast before. Because only those people won't know what this book is this. [TS]

  This book is Gray's life changing Bible that turned him from me a mortal to the efficiency robots that we have before [TS]

  us now. And while it is revealed others drive it that way. Well I just said well I just see it. [TS]

  And while it has already been stated by none other than Gray himself that I am beyond saving and spoke cannot save me. [TS]

  I agree with that [TS]

  but I've decided I'm going to have a look at it anyway just to give me a greater insight into the mind of gray so I am [TS]

  going to attempt to rate it. I may even make notes. [TS]

  One of the reason I one of the reasons I bought the paper version was that I could scribbled notes on the pages as I [TS]

  read it and westerns void [TS]

  and then hopefully I actually haven't got a single page so I don't know how successful they are [TS]

  but hopefully maybe the next podcast maybe one after I don't know at some point in our future. [TS]

  I intend to ask great questions about this book and if you want to have read it already you have that option. [TS]

  It will not be necessary it will not be required reading but it may increase [TS]

  or decrease your pleasure of the podcast of the time I'm giving you the listeners that option. [TS]

  I already saw you tweeting today about how you bought this book and that you haven't read it at all yet. [TS]

  Which is pretty standard order of operations for a let me go [TS]

  and buy a book about productivity low I feel really great I feel so great I could take the rest of the afternoon off. [TS]

  My suggestion is that we actually try to set a deadline of talking about it for the next show. OK And you did. [TS]

  Actually for the both of us because you I understand have bought the new edition David Allen just happened to come out [TS]

  with a new tenth or eleventh anniversary edition of the book [TS]

  and I have been intending to to really read getting things done for a whole bunch of reasons for like a year [TS]

  and a half now and I haven't done it either. So I could use the deadline and I think you need the deadline. [TS]

  And so this can this can definitely be homework for next time. [TS]

  For the listeners we will have a little conversation about getting things done with David Allen [TS]

  and they will be a link in the show notes for people if you want to get it. [TS]

  I asked if he thought I should get the audiobook because one to one way I could do with this is a minute sort of [TS]

  fitness drive I could use until I'm not going for runs [TS]

  but I suspect this is isn't one that would translate as well to audiobook [TS]

  and you kind of you kind of agreed the link that I will put in the show notes will be to Amazon I listen to a lot of [TS]

  audio books and I read as well and I'm keenly aware that some books are better in one format [TS]

  or another some audio books are better as audio books and some are worse. [TS]

  But I think that a book like getting things done doesn't translate well into audio book format because if you're really [TS]

  serious about it there are things that you have to do as you're going through the book [TS]

  and in audio book format it becomes a bit more like entertainment. [TS]

  I'm listening to this to be entertained when I'm reading stuff that I want to have an effect [TS]

  or to change my life in a particular way [TS]

  or often prefer to read it on the page because I think actually having it be a little bit more difficult to read on the [TS]

  page as opposed to someone just reading it to you can take that difficulty actually makes you focus on it more. [TS]

  I thought you were saying. [TS]

  During the sort of eyeball version as opposed to the air version was because it was sort of it's very risky [TS]

  and very flow shotty but it's not because of that it's just because more because you have to stop and make notes [TS]

  and do little things there are a couple of points in the book where I think it is genuinely useful to do what he [TS]

  suggests doing [TS]

  and it's an English don't get me wrong this is not a certain kind of genre book that I absolutely hate where they have [TS]

  a little exercise at the end of every chapter and I remember those. That stuff I think that stuff is totally gimmicky. [TS]

  There's only one or two things in this book that I actually think are moments when you should do something [TS]

  but it is also a book that is it is much more just to be actively thought about as opposed to listened to. [TS]

  So I really like audio books for books that are about a particular topic and I will listen to audio books for fiction. [TS]

  But for a book like this which is I actually want to really try to change something about my life I think it is worth [TS]

  deliberately sitting down and having a pen so you can make notes or underline sections [TS]

  or you know write some stuff down on an additional sheet of paper. [TS]

  Well a lot of the sponsor of this deficit question that I I greatly prefer our method of not knowing who the sponsors [TS]

  are. [TS]

  I think this is a good because I feel like people are not always aware of this that we don't we don't know who the [TS]

  sponsors are. One when we're recording the podcast and we don't do the sponsors until afterward. Yeah. [TS]

  And audible is a sponsor of the spot guests more people will have already heard from them. [TS]

  We'll have to decide who's doing what after the end of the show. [TS]

  I will do all the people listening already know what we do so in the worst way to end the conversation on the five guys [TS]

  that I love that they have they are more powerful than us right now. [TS]

  Like I almost feel like I feel subservient to them at the moment because they know something I don't. [TS]

  They're not more powerful they're just in the future. What kind of does make you more powerful I guess but there. [TS]

  More powerful right now their existing somewhere in the world as we are recording this I mean that [TS]

  and even they were recording us I mean that then nothing to us right now. So he just you swing in these wild extremes. [TS]

  Oh the listeners are vastly more powerful and then suddenly the listening they are nothing. [TS]

  I'm a glutton want kind of guy and you my friend. Gray. [TS]