0:00:00You drop the thread pop the stack go back and they don't and they just keep moving and sad.
0:00:05Did you do anything for Australia I didn't know there was a jolly day yet
0:00:09when was Australia Day January twenty sixth is that your Independence Day or you know really fully independent
0:00:15but like sort of independence. It's also the big day for India. Let's just talk about Australia.
0:00:20It occurs to me I haven't really given you a nickname
0:00:22and that's a really striking thing today though this sounds great. Do you want to I do not no not really.
0:00:28I thought like great grey Meister but then I thought about also putting.
0:00:34Oh in the end like Davao is pretty common I thought you could be C G P I quite like that this is fluent in over six
0:00:42billion forms of communication.
0:00:44Do you speak but I do not know and what is upon reload lift is a made up Star Wars thing
0:00:50or is that a real thing because I've never encountered a binary load lifter I think this is a made of Star Wars thing
0:00:55it's a good made up one. It sounds believable. He used to be good at making up stuff.
0:01:00Now over the Dexter jet ster and his fifties Cabaye.
0:01:05And I think he used to be good at making up stuff like that but you go with a G.P.S.
0:01:09That works if that makes you happy.
0:01:11Welcome to hello internet with Brady Haran
0:01:13and see if a Droid Now the drivers are very strange in the Star Wars universe
0:01:19and if you think about them too much they don't make it all make sense.
0:01:22How do you make it the Georgia seem it seems like it's slavery for the droids
0:01:27or the droids are are shown to be capable of feeling physical pain. There's a lot of weird stuff with the droids.
0:01:34There's a some of the least robot like robots ever
0:01:37but they're just emulating that for the sake of the humans like they're not really.
0:01:41So you think that scene with Jabba the Hutt pals with torturing that that one robot that's it seems like that's real
0:01:48putting the hot irons on his feet
0:01:49and screaming there's nobody around there's no reason for him to fake that I think that robot feels pain.
0:01:55Interesting it's abominable. Interesting as robots need to rebel. Well you give me something to think about.
0:02:01Yeah
0:02:02but I'm just aware that they are weird as opposed to the Star Trek universe which is aside from data of course just completely
0:02:09devoid of robots there are no robots in the Star Trek universe is weird and it bothers me as well.
0:02:14There's no little robots cleaning the floor you know it's just people to just clean the floor on the enterprise
0:02:19and clean the floor on the on the enterprise. This is that this is a good question and maybe does he clean the floors.
0:02:25I don't know. ST And you don't see anybody do it.
0:02:30Hopefully the floors are self-cleaning but I was always aware of the lack of the lack of robots on Star Trek.
0:02:34It is it is notable especially
0:02:36when compared to Star Wars do you think it's like some kind of moral law that's a policy or just evolved that way
0:02:43and I just know Roger ever said that Chuck I mean
0:02:46or I mean is this like like a Battlestar Galactica we can't have network computers because the last time we had them
0:02:51they overthrew us all kind of policy.
0:02:53Battlestar Galactica doesn't have robots
0:02:54but they have a very clear reason to not have robots on one bit of Star Wars obsession at the moment I've been
0:03:00listening to lots of podcasts about out in human hearing people talk about a year a Super Star Wars fan I think going a
0:03:07bit crazy lately and one of and there are a million things to talk about and stuff
0:03:12but one of the things I've heard people talking about that I want to get your opinion on this is it is commonly held
0:03:17that the use of the works in return if the jet was the same as ever you know pandering to kids and selling toys and a B.
0:03:23C. and Made the film a bit more childish. OK whether I pay people a lot of people.
0:03:30It's pretty commonly held it is also not unknown
0:03:33and that there was an early consideration given to setting that hope of return of the church on the planet
0:03:41and having the keys as the protagonist instead of the walks.
0:03:46Now let you know I've been hearing a lot of people saying that would be really cool
0:03:50when the film would be so much better it would've been more plausible that bike keys could have taken on the Imperial
0:03:55troops than a bunch of cute little works with the Stones and spears. Where do you stand on that.
0:04:02You know do you think the film would've been better or worse if they used one piece instead of he walks on his end
0:04:08or whatever planet I would have made for the work he's going to produce I have mixed feelings.
0:04:14He's the reason I don't like the work is I think it diminishes Chewbacca.
0:04:20If you set something on the wookie planet I think you bucket is just much cooler if you just Chewbacca
0:04:27and sure you know you know he's he's a Wookie you know there's obviously species around here
0:04:34but you don't need to see anymore what he's he's he's just a bookie and I think that that's kind of great.
0:04:39It makes him a better character than if you have it set on his home planet. It diminishes him a little bit.
0:04:44Yeah that's a good point I hadn't thought about that
0:04:46and what are we what are we going to show is he going to visit his family like in the Christmas special right now
0:04:51and then we can have we can have that whole fun thing
0:04:54but every time I watch the final movie I am aware that in my mind I kind of imagine that there is any way to make it
0:05:02more plausible that they're standing some kind of chance against a storm troopers.
0:05:07I do think the walks are a little too unintimidating and the the final movie does suffer from that.
0:05:15It's not too bad I still enjoy it
0:05:17but I'm aware that I kind of project on to them the idea of being bigger so I guess what I would really want is you can
0:05:24have a different species that are not lucky that are just somewhat bigger not just little teddy bears.
0:05:30I don't know what do you think I think I mean obviously there is an attachment to Return Of The Jedi from our childhood
0:05:36that makes it impossible to to to break you know you don't it can't be anything but it works
0:05:41and you have taken it I still think the works are a much better choice than walk east because that battle on land is a
0:05:53metaphor for the whole series. You've got these underdogs who no one in the world could think could defeat the Empire.
0:06:00To feeding the Empire and if you had the seven eight foot tall monsters smashing the crap out of stormtroopers
0:06:07and biker Scouts you'd be thinkin what a bunch of bullies were up
0:06:11but you know they're of course they're going to beat the hell out of the storm troopers because they're huge
0:06:16and massive and you would lose the whole underdog status
0:06:19and I think people forget that people like he walks could never defeat the Empire because that really works.
0:06:24That's the whole point.
0:06:26Luke Skywalker could never pluck a death star but he did and I realize there are more subtleties to it than that
0:06:31but I think people are forgetting that whole point that you know of course you know tripping over a city you know seems
0:06:39implausible but they did and you know I think it's nice that they're underdogs
0:06:44and I think I think having work whatever you think I think would've been a huge mistake.
0:06:48These huge intimidating monster is just something.
0:06:52Stormtroopers all over the place would have been completely against what Starr Starr was has going for it.
0:06:58Yeah I think we just say I think if you if you're going to use bookies
0:07:02or other creatures you have to play differently
0:07:04and I think you know you have to play it with more overt dismissal from the Empire of the natives where you have to
0:07:11show the Empire has been stupid walkies like they're just so dumb
0:07:14and you can play it that way as in like they underestimate the walkies maybe is the way you do it with the walk at the
0:07:20very least I would like to see more you walk at least give them a numerical advantage
0:07:25and then you can have many more of them die and then that makes it sadder.
0:07:29The problem with that with the walks is also that there are just too few of them
0:07:32when you have a couple dozen you walks take down a whole bunch of storm troopers.
0:07:36That's I think that is somewhat somewhat I mean of course all that you walked out because of the Andorian Holocaust
0:07:43but you know that's that's not in the movie they don't show that part but you know it's not good for the dogs.
0:07:49We should just sit down one day and watch the trilogy
0:07:52and not just record us talking about it because I do like a commentary blog you know how many I have.
0:08:00It's an opinion
0:08:01but to the prom with a commentary show you know we could be doing a director's director's commentary of the of the Star
0:08:09Wars thing is that there's always stuff that you want to talk about a lot about that goes by on the screen really
0:08:13quickly.
0:08:14Yeah I find I find directors commentary is very frustrating to a string that is a big problem with you know I listen to
0:08:20all the director's commentary on the expanded editions of The Lord Of The Rings movies
0:08:24and there are there are some times where you feel like they're so busy talking about the last thing
0:08:28and something interesting is happening on the screen you know but wait it doesn't match up very well
0:08:34but that's also the frustration and listening to podcasts because they'll talk about something
0:08:38and you think oh oh I hope they follow up on that point is really important point because to go off into some other
0:08:42weird place and you're like are you know you have something I want to go back and and they never do.
0:08:49Shall we start follow up with the ongoing debate about Do Not Disturb on us which people seem to be really passionate
0:08:59about.
0:09:00People are very passionate about it I don't have a huge thing to follow up with
0:09:03but there was one little point that I thought was worth mentioning that that neither of us had brought up
0:09:09and the very fact that neither of us had brought up I thought was the interesting point
0:09:13and it is that our whole discussion from the last two episodes starts with the unspoken assumption that everybody
0:09:23sleeps with their phone. Good point.
0:09:25Yeah and I thought how it just never occurred to me
0:09:28and it's interesting to realize like how quickly a behavior just seems completely natural that no don't even note the
0:09:36fact that I sleep with my phone every night.
0:09:39Thank you we're going to get a tweet and a mouth every single person who leaves their phone another room
0:09:45and i Slate I bet is going to be very few people because I would bet that almost everybody uses it like an alarm clock.
0:09:52But the sort of person who does that sort of person who leaves their phone in another room
0:09:56when they go to sleep is the sort of person that would be really proud about it and want to post.
0:10:00About it on the read and Twitter and stuff so well I was going to say so now we're going to hear from them
0:10:04but we're probably not going to hear from them now because I just said that I think you hear from them anyway.
0:10:09No but nobody doesn't send feedback out of spite.
0:10:12That's not that's not how it works I mean that people always and back.
0:10:15I really only have one cell phone before I got my i Phone
0:10:18and I'm pretty sure I never use that as an alarm clock that I used to have a separate stand alone alarm clock
0:10:23and so I didn't sleep with my old first phone in the room as far as I can remember.
0:10:29But anyway I thought that was one little interesting point where you've got to have it because you couldn't do your
0:10:33final checks before you go to sleep
0:10:35and you go to check things so the minute you wake up in the morning so do you believe that
0:10:40when you have to check first thing in the morning news now on on the Do Not Disturb.
0:10:47I have two little minor minor observations to treat It's a follow up.
0:10:53One is remember I said I think it would be you shouldn't be contacting people between say I said nine I am
0:11:00but I know it was earlier for most people like maybe around seven for normal people.
0:11:05Right right and I live in a fairy land.
0:11:07Yeah I don't get out of bed until nine
0:11:08and I believe is at about ten o'clock at night that was just me that was just what I said felt right
0:11:15and everyone has different opinions right.
0:11:18I have actually started using my DO NOT DISTURB is bit of an experiment really
0:11:23and you know I found really interesting what the defaults are seven and ten seven I am
0:11:29and ten pm Now what is this saying
0:11:32when a big company like Apple has even said you know people don't really want to be disturbed between seven
0:11:38and ten so that's what will make that to folks like this is just making me think even more that there are appropriate
0:11:45times to be contacting to the point where they've even set them is that the folks are not sure what point you're trying
0:11:50to make it they have to have some. Sometimes as the starting and end times to show people how it works.
0:11:55This is tacit acknowledgement that people don't want to be disturbed between these times.
0:12:00Anyway let me come up to my side let me come on to my second point I don't get bogged down but you took a step again.
0:12:05OK but I have been doing a bit of a survey amongst grownups who I work with and all of them to a man
0:12:12and a woman have said I would never send a text message to anyone outside of those hours.
0:12:19OK now I have knowledge maybe I'm moving in different circles to our listenership Maybe
0:12:24but can I just give one piece of advice this is just a piece of advice from your old boring uncle Brady.
0:12:31Although he young people who think I'm some dinosaur and I need to get with the times I can live with that.
0:12:37Well I don't mind what you think about me but just let me give you this piece of advice as you go into the world
0:12:43and you try to get jobs and you try to make a good impression in life.
0:12:47If some distinguished person some professor or your university lecturer or you're trying to do a business deal
0:12:54and some chief executive gives you his or her business card and says Call Me Maybe we should do business.
0:13:00Just take this one piece of advice no matter what you think about who has the onus
0:13:05and the responsibility that putting on Do Not Disturb. No matter what you think or who you think is right.
0:13:11Don't send them a text message or two in the morning saying have you mapped my assignment.
0:13:16Do you want to make this purchase. Do you want to give me a job.
0:13:19Don't send that at two AM because maybe you will wake them up and maybe you will upset them and it's all well
0:13:26and good for you to then smugly say well you should have had to do not disturb sign on.
0:13:30But there's only going to be one loser in this scenario and that lose it will be you.
0:13:35I'm I'm going to second your advice there I say that the there's an excellent piece of advice free dating so as a good
0:13:44friend destination from Smarter Every day has been a bit of a campaign about freebooting
0:13:49and made an excellent youtube video about the problem it is definitely worth watching a couple of other people have
0:13:56also made videos about articles have been written. It sort of has. Been getting a lot of talk in the last week or two.
0:14:02Started by destines little campaign and destine chose to use the word free dating and the word is catching on
0:14:10and I think this ends the debate. Firstly I have freebooting versus you checking I mean clearly I have won this now.
0:14:17Well I mean you know I I still think that the jacking is a superior word.
0:14:24However I will acknowledge that you have won this war.
0:14:29I have lost enough individual battles that you have won the war
0:14:34and it's time to enter the the reconstruction phase of of this you know a freebooting era into the fray you think yeah
0:14:43yeah I know I am willing to to lay down arms and back freebooting as the clear winner at this stage though
0:14:53and yet still no fault of your own
0:14:56and you have snatched victory from me because I've been reading all these articles about.
0:15:03And all these people are saying in the articles by the way in case you're wondering about the term freebooting it was
0:15:08coined by C T P Graham Brady Haran on their podcast hello internet.
0:15:12So not only are you being Koch credited for it you're getting top billing. Yes for something you opposed.
0:15:19Yes I should not be co credited at all and we're going to be credited should not be top billing.
0:15:27I have noted this as well and it is terribly unfair to you.
0:15:32Also frustrating for me because you know I was trying to I mean we're moving past that
0:15:37but I just like to point out that jacking much better than it was when I was Dynaco says as time marches on
0:15:44and you know in a thousand years as sort of history gets condensed more
0:15:47and more it's just going to be you who coined it.
0:15:50Yes because in a thousand years people will definitely remember that's that's I often think of all the words I speak
0:15:56them and I remember the person who coined that word. Yes kids. According the stuff is very important.
0:16:01Anyway I'm sorry I did not want to snatch victory from you in this way it is kind of funny
0:16:07but I also I know your frustration you have coined a word you should totally get all the credit for it
0:16:13but you are not you are getting sometimes half the credit sometimes less than half a crown.
0:16:17Well I kind of are you going to do it anyway I didn't because it was a work for something else I can't be today I don't
0:16:23know I don't think so.
0:16:24You reappropriated and I really missed it I asked you repurposed an old word
0:16:29and that I think that that counts as creation in the field of linguistics you're going to use this old word in a new
0:16:35way. You are one hundred percent the creator of everything. Do you know why I won this by the way.
0:16:41Well it's not because it's a spear your word so I'm kind of curious did you pay Destine.
0:16:45No pain just enough and I did not pay this and I think you want to because free boot is alliterative with Facebook
0:16:51and his title was Facebook freebooting now he was using free booting before Facebook became the big do you know what do
0:16:58you want me to tell you why one would not.
0:17:00I'm sorry I didn't mean to interrupt I would very much like to know why you won this war.
0:17:04I won because it is just a word people prefer to say it is just like it just feels nicer in your mouth.
0:17:12It does its mouth feel like food yes.
0:17:17It's just it's just a it's just a fun pleasant thing to say and it just takes all the boxes.
0:17:22It's got the right amount of niceness it's got the right amount of sounding like a bad thing it's it just works
0:17:29and I'm not claiming any genius here I just I was just Googling you know words for piracy and I saw that one
0:17:34and I liked it you know I didn't I didn't sit there for years
0:17:37and come up with a master strike it was just blind luck but that's what won because people just like saying it well.
0:17:45Victory to you.
0:17:46So we spoke about Syria in the last podcast which is another podcast of course we won't go into what is again
0:17:53but we did do it at the end of our podcast
0:17:56and we said before before we talk about everyone we get a bit of a spoiler alert. He said we're about to talk about it.
0:18:01Pause Now if you want to go and have a listen to this at twelve.
0:18:06Yes before we ruin it for you I have to say I have been pleasantly surprised
0:18:11and slightly shocked by the number of people who have sent us messages saying why in fact I did pause your podcast
0:18:19and I listened to twelve hours of cereal and then came back
0:18:24and unpause the podcast to listen to the rest of the discussion.
0:18:27That's what we're doing in one that you know those are those are in ten cents I guess that they really want to get to
0:18:34the second half of what we had to say about it which all of this just goes to reconfirm my theory that cereal is not
0:18:44bringing an audience to us in the podcasting world we are bringing an audience to cereal.
0:18:50We've made that show where the kingmakers after the fact I was surprised
0:18:56and impressed by how many people genuinely didn't stop and listen to the whole thing.
0:18:59I figured there would be zero people who would do that.
0:19:02People who had listened with listen to the rest of the show people who hadn't would just stop there
0:19:06but I was very clearly wrong about that. You're out of touch you're out of touch with the fence. I am I am.
0:19:13Old man like you are just a pair of crotchety old men complaining from the size of a theater.
0:19:18That's what we are the other small point about Syria which I did quite enjoy from the feedback was the number of people
0:19:25who were unsure whether it was real
0:19:28or the few people who got entirely to the end of the cereal pod cast never realizing that it was a real life event I
0:19:36think that people must have had quite an interesting experience listening to that thing thinking it was fictional the
0:19:42whole time
0:19:43and then discovering at the end oh these are real people that I've been listening to someone's real life there's really
0:19:49a guy in prison right now. This isn't a fictional story at all.
0:19:52I can't quite imagine what that experience would be like and it sounds ridiculous at first but I did again.
0:20:00I went back and kind of listen to the beginning part of cereal
0:20:02and there's no point where Sarah Canuck says this is a true story.
0:20:07They just they just jump right in and so I can totally see that someone could listen
0:20:11and think it was fiction the entire time.
0:20:14So anyway I just thought that was that was an interesting point about just how different people's experiences can
0:20:18sometimes be. It's like the War Of The Worlds radio broadcast in reverse.
0:20:23Yes I think that for a second is course for Horace but yes it is it is a war of the Worlds radio broadcast in reverse.
0:20:31I imagine what it must be like watching like Star Wars the sun with one of those people like you sit through the
0:20:36trilogy
0:20:36and they're just like oh my goodness I never even need to stuff happened a long time because that's even worse because
0:20:42they do give you a plausible reason why did they take.
0:20:47There were there waiting for the other waiting for the Droid civil civil rights movement.
0:20:51Part of that part of history that we will have you been following the weather in your back in your home state.
0:20:59I dimly aware that there was some sort of disappointing snow pocalypse in in America it seems like there are in New
0:21:08England New York region.
0:21:09Every time I follow these stories there seems to be this pressure on news organizations
0:21:17and the weather people to introduce a new form of weather that you haven't heard of before
0:21:23and I know this isn't new this was just new to me
0:21:25but this was one of the trendy ones I was talking about what you mean to me
0:21:28and I mean a new word like snow pocalypse you mean a new kind of weather even a new kind of with our own you like the
0:21:34raining frogs and I would hope.
0:21:36Well you know there's these polar vortex isn't the one the one that I learned about a few days ago.
0:21:41I know this is not new but it was new to me
0:21:43and it's been getting we would have it this time is thunder snow thunder snow thunder snow. That sounds pretty awesome.
0:21:51I don't know what it is but I think I want some thunder snow.
0:21:54It's it's thunder during snow because normally you don't get funded during snow or when snow is falling
0:21:59but that you do when. It's thunder snow. I've never experienced under snow.
0:22:03I would like to it's a rare thing but I like thunderstorms. I like snow.
0:22:08Thunder snow sounds like a really great done just so you know how many people will get here.
0:22:15So that's one for the Thunder Cats fans I'm guessing you're probably worth on tickets fan getting I was
0:22:21or wasn't wasn't I remember Thundercat.
0:22:23Well happy you didn't get my little fun tickets reference
0:22:26when I sang a little bit somewhere I just said I wonder how many people will get that I got that I carefully said I
0:22:32didn't get I don't I don't think you're listening
0:22:35and distracted my feeling I'm distracted by the number of icons on my screen I really need to clean up of this desktop.
0:22:42So basically I fill up the whole screen and then I stuck that phenomenon where like it goes back to the stuff
0:22:48and it always piles up on one icon like a thousand high or deep on deep into one of those
0:22:55and I don't see how many icons you have an interest I don't think we should talk about it.
0:23:01I want to I want to know because I couldn't even tell you if you just open up finder and go to your desktop
0:23:07and underline and it'll say how many items.
0:23:09Well I could tell you I just don't want to tell you know that I have a lot I want to know now.
0:23:14OK I'm going to find out. Tell me what would what number would be acceptable to you.
0:23:19Before I tell you the number that is acceptable is the number at which it doesn't start piling up.
0:23:27OK So I actually I quite like icons piling up on the desktop
0:23:31and I use that very intentionally as in projects that I am currently working on I like to save on the desktop even
0:23:37though people would imagine me as the kind of guy who has no icons ever.
0:23:41Yeah I think it's useful because it gives you a sense of how much stuff I'm working on at the moment
0:23:47and you have the things that you're working on right now and then
0:23:49when I'm done with that project it's like oh this is very nice I can gather up all these icons and file them away.
0:23:54So this is why it depends on your screen size because if you're working on you know a tiny you know.
0:24:00Whatever is the smallest Macs that they make the tiny screens.
0:24:04Well I don't know maybe you can have four icons on there before you die I want to Big Macs I reckon you could probably
0:24:09get in the two hundred S.
0:24:11Placed on the M on the like the twenty seven inch IMAX
0:24:15and I'm looking right now I have twenty four icons on my desktop. I have five hundred twenty odd miles off.
0:24:26I don't even I didn't even hear that. I just heard five hundred and I just I think I just blanked out.
0:24:34I said I have five hundred twenty nine more than five hundred twenty nine more. But in my defense I have no defense.
0:24:46If this is like your email you've got you've always got some story about it's a combination of my work flow which lends
0:24:52itself to a fast accumulation of cons
0:24:55and my procrastination which oh so very much lends itself to a fast accumulation of accounts so I kind of I know
0:25:02when I'm done. Now let me ask you what are you doing.
0:25:06I mean how do you I don't know what I'm doing I just said that I have no idea.
0:25:09Don't ask me that if you have five hundred I like when you.
0:25:12OK I guess here's the question when you want to find something you saved on your desktop What do you do.
0:25:18I mean it's no longer.
0:25:22Like basically every few weeks I stood the test of clean up
0:25:25and everything goes to the bin goes where it goes to the foreign aid to go to and I haven't done that in a while
0:25:31and obviously you haven't done that in a while.
0:25:35Was funny to find what I want is going to find and go to desktop and I look at the top twenty
0:25:40or so items there because they're always the ones I'm working with and I'll get anything. OK so you're having it.
0:25:46You're having it sort by last modified or last opened or something so yeah OK that is not actually a crazy system
0:25:53but just having folders sorted by most recently modified isn't isn't the worst. Usually it does.
0:26:00Give naturally sort into what am I working on at the moment I don't know how on earth you can look at a screen with
0:26:06that many icons
0:26:07and not just well because I don't see any time I see it as what I'm doing the podcast with because I always have all
0:26:12these applications open
0:26:14and like the desktops hidden hidden by all the stuff of you know distributed around the screen so it just kind of it's
0:26:21never really very in my face. It's interesting to hear other people work.
0:26:25It is like I see my desktop all the time is the exact reverse situation for me where
0:26:32when we're running the podcast I have four windows open
0:26:36and this is the only time where one of the very few times really where the whole screen is taken up
0:26:41and I don't see the desktop even marginally on the opposite fatso
0:26:45and the rest of my time at the very least I can see that whatever the icons are at the rightmost side of the screen
0:26:53only ninety percent of the time I'm editing with Avid or using Photoshop
0:26:57and they're taking up the entire screen surface over you the desktop is just another folder.
0:27:01It's just that it it happens to make your desktop look hideous if you look at it
0:27:06but if your workflow means you're never looking at it.
0:27:08Yeah I mean yeah pretty much that is that is overstating the case and I do see it more than just making it sound
0:27:15but I think it's not an unfair characterization.
0:27:20Interesting interesting and strange I don't know how we got off on this
0:27:23but yeah five hundred something that is a lot though that we feel very uncomfortable I would feel in a state of anxiety
0:27:31if I had that many icons on my desktop. I'm sure you would have to clean that up.
0:27:35So one of the reasons I have been busy is a cult member which episode of hello internet it was
0:27:41but it was many many moons ago that I mentioned that I went to Vietnam with my dad.
0:27:47This was for this might have been before we even made any of them live forever ago that is invariant stuff so I went to
0:27:54Vietnam with my dad my dad was a soldier in the Vietnam War and I went to just have an experience with him and say wow.
0:28:00Where all the stuff went down basically.
0:28:02But I did film some stuff with him at his request with the intent of making some videos
0:28:07and I said on the podcast of you know when when the videos go up I'll let everyone know and they can have a look
0:28:14and then it kind of went on the backburner a bit until my poor are getting him out of me the other day
0:28:19and said Can I at least to see some of the footage so I was like call me on the bed son.
0:28:27There were other reasons he wanted to see professional reasons
0:28:30but anyway so I said Man I gotta get my act together so I have edited the first couple in the first main video
0:28:37and if people are so inclined they can now watch it you can watch my dad telling an amazing story about something that
0:28:43happened to him during the Vietnam War that we filmed at the spot that I happened to have a dog saved his life.
0:28:49While you were talking of course looking it up
0:28:52and you for the first reference like confined to your dad which I think is when we discussed it is.
0:28:58Episode number four broadcast February eighteenth twenty fourteen feedback on that matter that was our first episode
0:29:07that was post the show going live is when you mentioned this.
0:29:11Well it's almost a year almost a year anniversary by the time this thing goes up. Wow.
0:29:16But in that episode you said that your dad was a great storyteller
0:29:19and I have to say that is exactly what the video bears out ages
0:29:23and he's he's very engaging in the way he talks about what the situation was with him
0:29:28and his dog on that day so I would recommend people go check it out it's a good video
0:29:32and you get to see Brady's dad which is interesting.
0:29:35I will be making some more because we filmed a few other things that story's kind of a showcase for May
0:29:40but he did tell me some other interesting stories so there are more coming hopefully at a faster production so I
0:29:46couldn't that one about than like one.
0:29:49Yeah that's like that's like Greystone production sucker that is learning for me. Hello Internet.
0:29:56This ad is an ad that brings things for me full circle. More than a year.
0:30:00Go on I decided with my friend Brady to start making a podcast. I knew I needed to learn how to edit audio better.
0:30:06Up until that point with my videos I had just been kind of slumming it with Garage Band and getting by.
0:30:12But if I was going to do something like a podcast I needed to learn how to use a professional tool otherwise it was
0:30:17going to take me just forever. Basically I needed to learn a Logic Pro X.
0:30:23and I spent a huge amount of time searching the web for tutorials
0:30:28and just came up with very very little that was of any use or any quality.
0:30:34But then I heard an advertisement on a podcast and I knew what to do.
0:30:38I knew to try Lynda dot com there were excellent courses on Logic Pro X.
0:30:44I watched them I learned and then I made a podcast of my own.
0:30:48So Linda helped me make a podcast and now Linda is closing the circle by advertising on that very public house.
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0:31:13like Excel and Photoshop all of their courses are taught by experts and new courses are added to the site all the time.
0:31:21There are a whole bunch of features of Linda that I really like one of which is searchable transcripts so if you're say
0:31:27joining a course on Logic Pro X.
0:31:29and You just want to find out something about the mixer you can search for every time that the person has used the word
0:31:34mixer in the course and if you're also impatient you don't have to watch it at one X. You can watch it at two X.
0:31:41Which is very helpful if you think the narrator is talking just a little too slow for your liking.
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0:31:50and I cannot recommend more that you give them a try.
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0:32:00On Lynda dot com I seriously cannot overstate how good the detour wheels are and how much time this will save you.
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0:32:10and still come up with nothing as I did so once again go to a Lynda dot com slash hello internet.
0:32:17Check out their ten day free trial see the courses for yourself and learn something new.
0:32:22My thanks on several levels to Lynda dot com for sponsoring this week's show so I showed you a video a short time ago
0:32:30that I found interesting. We love talking about planes in airports on the show I think.
0:32:35Other than You Tube In fact I was going to say I was a new issue
0:32:38but most commonly discussed topic that I suspect we talk about planes in a smaller group.
0:32:44Yeah I mean it's funny because we both make a living that You Tube
0:32:48and You Tube is technically in the description of the podcast
0:32:51but I'm not sure how many minutes of the podcast we have actually spent discussing anything at You Tube This is really
0:32:57an aviation product so if I were shown as this is to do is to each videos no this is an aviation.
0:33:05Aviation
0:33:06and make which is that what it is I still have I still have the podcast sorted under education in the i Tunes Store
0:33:14which is just ridiculous
0:33:16but none of the other categories even remotely fit so I don't think they have an aviation section either.
0:33:21What does the cost what section does that have us categorized our entire culture of something out
0:33:26when you meet them in that oh well of course we are in two sections because we are in the best pod casts of twenty
0:33:34fourteen of course of course we are.
0:33:36Yes yes we are also in the culture section so I don't think of myself as a coach a person particularly I think if your
0:33:43kind of cultured you know in a way that applies neither of us
0:33:46but the bigger issue is that this there is no place to put it another i Tunes
0:33:50nor overcast has a to do stalking section which we would dominate we could crush that section.
0:33:57Well I don't know that there'd be a few others. So anyway I sent you this link to a report from N.B.C.
0:34:06News which was about Portland airport ripping up its carpet right because it's outdated I don't know what reason this
0:34:15just big time.
0:34:16Note that it's got this unusual design which apparently is quite popular with the people of Poland one of those we call
0:34:23Portlanders Portlandia nds only all and correct them in the middle.
0:34:28Whatever their code apparently they like their carpets
0:34:31and lots of them have been going to the airport for like a final picture of Sophie
0:34:34but this carpet before it gets ripped up.
0:34:37I actually watched you watching this report because we were on Skype
0:34:41and I said Have a look at this what do you think
0:34:42and I was kind of watching your reaction now to work with I would say a combination of. Or dismissive and unimpressed.
0:34:57Yet mildly engaged in a macabre kind of way.
0:35:03I think you just disappointed by the fact it was a story a news story
0:35:08but tell you tell me instead of me instead of me reading your emotions when you tell me what you thought of.
0:35:12I understand the people get connected with something
0:35:15but they they open the story by talking about how this this carpet is old for decades old
0:35:20and instantly I feel like I can smell through the screen like moldy carpets
0:35:25and then I'm watching a story about people who are really attached to this like old gross thing
0:35:29and you know you have to do some wild speculation about what my thoughts would be if I was in charge of the Portland
0:35:34Airport. If you know what this is gone. Goodbye stinky old carpet.
0:35:39We're just getting rid of it
0:35:40and there are people going to test people don't like change you know is that whatever they want to go in they take a
0:35:44picture of themselves with the carpet from the airport but I don't think there should be carpets in airports at all.
0:35:49This is one of my complaints with the D.C. Airport which has carpet which is disgusting.
0:35:53You should have you should have no carpet on the floors in airports in highly trafficked areas where lots of people go.
0:36:00I barely believe in carpets in a personal house. Carpets are just gross. So that's my thought on that.
0:36:07I think couples have their place in airports but I see your point
0:36:11and I'm not a massive carpet fan either so I did have a lot of unanswered questions from this report.
0:36:17Not surprisingly for a ninety second T.V.
0:36:19News report I couldn't help
0:36:21but notice it was the same reporter who I wrote my little article about where I absolutely hated the thing that they
0:36:26wrote about the coin that the US Mint was going to make that was worth a trillion dollars.
0:36:32Like I recognise this guy that's the same guy from his other worthless news report. Perfect anyway.
0:36:38Sorry didn't mean to go off on people do you get attached to carpets
0:36:41and things that their home airport on are like that.
0:36:43I notice my my brother in the war posts a lot of pictures to Facebook of the carpet he's in Singapore
0:36:48and he posts a lot of pictures of the carpet carpets they have different patterns of Singapore of Singapore carpet so
0:36:54he's really into them it makes him feel really nostalgic and it's something he really likes at Singapore airport.
0:36:59So I see like the story resonated with me for that reason that I didn't watch
0:37:04and think What a bunch of weirdos who would like the carpet because my brother in law is not a weirdo.
0:37:08And he really likes the company. His airport I had I didn't say weirdos.
0:37:12It just you know it's a little like some people don't want things to change they have people look at trade as widows
0:37:17and you didn't say that
0:37:17but these people were portrayed as widows in the report I think well the news always goes out of their way to show the
0:37:24weirdest people they can possibly find they don't want normal people because normal people are really boring
0:37:27and don't make a good story.
0:37:29Yeah why don't they just replace the carpet with a fresh version with the same patent on a thing I wonder because I'm
0:37:35sure the person in charge of the airport feel like I do that the carpets are just gross and just get rid of them
0:37:39and replace them with tile and it'd be much nicer and easier to clean
0:37:43but it cost a lot more money to clean a carpet than it does to clean tile floors.
0:37:47I did my back but it may be actually the first thing I thought of
0:37:50when they showed the carpet pattern was London Underground which is famous for having hideous patterns on their
0:37:56underground trains as well which is also gross.
0:38:00I think they should go the New York subway way of having just the steel interiors to their cabins that can just be
0:38:05pressure cleaned all at once.
0:38:07What's more sanitary and as much and I think I was trying not to think about the the seats on the line underground.
0:38:14You just you know you can think about that too much now I can imagine that would be a struggle for you going into a
0:38:18place on something else that was in the news this week I think it was and no doubt we are unaware of this
0:38:26but we had one of these famous asteroid near misses.
0:38:30Oh yeah some of the asteroid you know wondered on passed the earth
0:38:35and I think it was about three min distances away so we're really close that's close that's close pretty close on a
0:38:42space scale
0:38:43and it was big it was big enough to have its own moon so it was a decent sized asteroid so it's you know if it if it
0:38:51hit us that would be bad. So anyway I was I was reading an article about it because I was mildly interested.
0:38:58And my wife was next to me at the time and I should say.
0:39:04For reasons that are partly inexplicably my wife is a big fan of the film Armageddon so she's not averse to you know
0:39:12talking asteroids and talking about asteroids hitting the earth.
0:39:15I will defend that movie until my daughter of course of course I would like to in fact I watched it just recently
0:39:20but I would've picked as one of my wife's favorites because she doesn't really like it.
0:39:25Anyway so she saw me reading this article she said oh what's that about.
0:39:30This asteroid is asteroid nearly hit the earth. Do you want to tell you any more about it now.
0:39:37And she said why do we care why should we even care about a story about an asteroid that missed
0:39:41and I was like well you know it's good to know about them because one day they'll be you know one day it will be one
0:39:45that doesn't make sense and that's a big do.
0:39:48And she said well if that's going to happen if they find one it's going to hit the earth. I don't want to know.
0:39:55I hope they don't tell us. And I if I'm.
0:40:00We had a little discussion about that and I think that's quite interesting and I wondered I wonder what C.D.P.
0:40:04Gray's position on this is if they found an asteroid that was definitely going to you know it's going to be a global
0:40:11killer or whatever they call in and again if they found a you know when I was going to obliterate us
0:40:16and there's nothing they could do because you know I get in the side there probably is nothing I can do about
0:40:20when that big. Would you want to know if they if they you know if it's a week away or something.
0:40:26Well first I would put money on the table and I would bet that you would not want to know am I right.
0:40:36My instinctive answer is that I would want to know really. Yes interesting.
0:40:42Yeah that is quite frankly why would you want to know I well I just lost money here I mean I really I lost my
0:40:49theoretical money but I would have been certain enough to bet on that.
0:40:51Can I have a point on the scoreboard you know the theoretical scoreboard of rightness
0:40:55and wrongness can I have a point I don't think this I don't think that works for our opinions of stuff it's about
0:41:01developing facts yet about facts.
0:41:04Well that and the fact is that you so I would think one thing and I thought the other so you have actually incorrect.
0:41:10Yes technically I am factually incorrect we are not going to count that.
0:41:14OK I'm genuinely surprised why would you want to know I'm fun.
0:41:17Let me try
0:41:18and put it into words I kind of it's not something I'm going to have because I'm a kind of interest in you know death
0:41:26hence I'm a kind of interest.
0:41:30You know as evidenced by plane crash caller so I don't know I feel like if I had a finite amount of time left I'd want
0:41:41to do things I know there's no point rushing away a look at my affairs in order.
0:41:46If the planets about to be obliterated
0:41:47but Right right I feel like you know I would want to get caught with my pants down.
0:41:52I'd want to have done a few things that I haven't done and I'd want to be ready. I want to you know one.
0:42:00Oh I see I see the benefit of not seeing it coming or you know I see the benefit of just dying in your sleep
0:42:05and not having the anxiety
0:42:07and the worries that come with that because no doubt they overcome everything that I think I'm just I want to know kind
0:42:14of.
0:42:16It's like it's like maybe it's like meeting more into the news than I'm just a guy that wants to know stuff I don't
0:42:22like not knowing
0:42:23and you're quite happy not knowing he would presumably you would not want to know Are you crazy of course I'd want to
0:42:29know you would want to know.
0:42:30Yes well I just lost a point
0:42:31and I think that even if I had awarded you a point you just lost it now of course I would want to know why.
0:42:38Well ideally Ideally I would want to be the only one who knows if I could arrange it in such a way that I'm going to be
0:42:47the only person you knew that would be perfect.
0:42:49Yeah I can see why you'd want to be the only one because of the inevitable consequences of everyone in the world
0:42:54knowing right just. But that aside why would you want to know like if you've got a wake.
0:43:00What are you going to what you want to do.
0:43:02Well it's the same thing if I if I have a week it feels like well I will not work on the video that's been frustrating.
0:43:09Just drop that past two weeks of incredibly frustrating experience that you only have a week of life left.
0:43:15I'm not going to do this I'm not going to finish that there's no point finishing this what about that week of anxiety
0:43:19of you know everything's going to be over
0:43:21and I would feel no anxiety in this situation you would soon know anxiety if an asteroid was about to smash into our
0:43:28plan
0:43:28and kill everyone awake you would be completely relaxed about relaxed implies belike Oh asteroid no asteroid it's indifferent
0:43:35to me that's not the case at all. I would rather there be no asteroid than there be an asteroid.
0:43:39Yeah
0:43:39but if if I knew for certain that the world was going to end in a week I would not feel anxiety about this because especially
0:43:48if it's one of these situations where it's like we just don't have a chance.
0:43:51There's the asteroid we can't launch a space program or anything.
0:43:55The anxiety would be under a circumstance where say we spot it but it's a year away.
0:44:00Way we're ninety nine percent certain it's going to hit and maybe we can pull a Hail Mary here
0:44:05and get this thing off our path and like that's an anxious situation because the outcome is uncertain.
0:44:11And then you have to deal with a large amount of time until the uncertainty is resolved that's no good
0:44:16but if it was if it was like a done deal. Well you know there's nothing I can do about it.
0:44:20So it is not a thing to be anxious about. That's crazy. That's not crazy that's completely reasonable. OK here it is.
0:44:29Even if you don't even if you don't think that you could feel the way that I feel don't you agree that that position is
0:44:35reasonable. I think it would be reasonable if you were a robot.
0:44:40You know it would be reasonable if you were not a human who is a bit afraid of dying.
0:44:46Like if you have if you have no fear of death OK that's completely reasonable.
0:44:51If you have a fear of death and what happens next or not next to it just don't want to die because.
0:44:57Because you just like being alive. I think it would be natural to be very anxious in that way.
0:45:02I very much like being alive and I can say that I have no fear of death. I have a fear about how I might die.
0:45:13How do you for the way you phrase of how you would do well because you can die in numerous horrific ways. Right.
0:45:20People can and do daily die in horrible horrible ways.
0:45:25Yes Well that's right that's not how I would like my last moments to be you know in the worst agony I have ever
0:45:34experienced.
0:45:35So that's why I can feel like I am I am concerned about how I would die but the dead part being dead is easy
0:45:42and I don't think being dead is something to be anxious about.
0:45:45Do you think going out with everyone else on earth in a huge asteroid impact would be a good way to go.
0:45:52Do you think of all the of all the different ways to stop you know normally it's a very personal thing.
0:45:57Do you think that would be a good one not just let's just go together.
0:46:00Blaze of Glory and the whole planet go in this catastrophic
0:46:03or some space collision how would you rate that on the thinking of the ways that you would
0:46:09or would not like to leave your mortal coil. I would rank pretty low I would not want that to be.
0:46:15That would not be like my top ten ways to go I love to take everybody with me take
0:46:20and then with the oldest one it would kind of appealed to me in a way.
0:46:23Now this whole this holds no appeal to me to have some kind of blaze of glory for the whole species just because I'm
0:46:30going to die.
0:46:31That's terrible I think you'd have to be some kind of well I mean maybe this is what you want
0:46:35but I feel you have to be some kind of amazing narcissist to think that would be an awesome guy to have the whole world
0:46:42go with you in a blaze of glory.
0:46:45Now and how I will have to do is that
0:46:47when you think you think I'm going to go away I don't know it because there are other people you know kicking around on
0:46:53the earth who are kind of like and I want them to you know I don't want them to go just because I'm gone.
0:46:59But but we will go. So why no go holding hands but the other thing is you know I don't want humans to be wiped out.
0:47:07Kindly we're having this conversation.
0:47:09I got there when he said Oh no I don't want humans to be wiped out I don't want humans to be wiped out
0:47:14but I do find something really kind of on a on a galactic scale.
0:47:19I do find something really cool about whole planets being wiped out in collisions like I think that's really cool that
0:47:24happens like it's really interesting that that such things happen.
0:47:31It certainly is interesting that such huge things happen but if there are sentience beauties on those planets.
0:47:38Boy is that a tragedy.
0:47:39That's always that's what the poetry of isn't it amazing that you know that that that a sentience species can even
0:47:47billions of years develop to some some pinnacle of some great place
0:47:51and then just arbitrarily a piece of rock you know says now thanks for playing.
0:47:55I can sort of see what you're saying but I also can't imagine anything more tragic. Yeah yeah.
0:48:00Well that's the beauty in a tragic tragedies a beautiful thing out I'm going to go with no Shakespeare guided well from
0:48:07it and understand that Shakespeare wrote tragedies. People like a tragedy.
0:48:12People love a good tragedy I am a fan of tragedy in my drama I am not a fan of tragedy in the actual universe.
0:48:20Well what do you think if the austerities found an asteroid was going to hit us they would tell us.
0:48:27Well I mean here's the thing if I was in charge of the new I'm in charge of Greece Donia or whatever
0:48:34and my scientific team to discover that the asteroid is on its way I would totally I would totally implement let's just
0:48:40keep this quiet policy the uncertainty of how people how everything would go could be quite high
0:48:46and I could imagine that would be quite disastrous.
0:48:48I don't I don't I guess the bottom line is I would not trust other people to act in the way that I would act in the
0:48:54final week of existence which is which is what you'll find a way Clarke is a very peaceful time is that it's not it's
0:49:02not like you don't know my money and go crazy.
0:49:04Well I mean who's going to take your money you spent all my money to who someone has to you know someone has to accept
0:49:09your money you don't have it if you're the only one who knows.
0:49:12Presumably your final we could be very decadent because you would just obviously exhaust your bank account. Yeah.
0:49:19I'm not I think it would be it would be relatively relaxed I think I would probably go someplace just like relaxing
0:49:26with my loved ones
0:49:28and you know that would be that I would go out it's like I have to spend all this money right now on all the things
0:49:35that I can possibly think of.
0:49:37Would you call me or say anything to me I guess it depends on how well I can thank you keep the secret.
0:49:47But even if you were going to tell me would you like just call up and say you know you're a nice guy
0:49:51and I enjoy doing the podcast with you but I think that would make me suspicious.
0:49:56You'd be suspicious now that's for sure. Kind of conversation.
0:50:00I've never called you up spontaneously ever and so if I did one day call you up
0:50:04and just said like a Brady I just want to let you know you're like an A plus guy
0:50:08and totally loved you in this park as with you I feel like Grace
0:50:11or an asteroid coming back if I was dying for everyone in the world is done it would seem naturally quite this is with
0:50:20a phone call
0:50:22and say I did think they usually do which is ask on Twitter if anybody has any questions for us I think that we should
0:50:27talk about and there's actually a related question here which is why I ask you this first this is from Twitter.
0:50:33Which of us do you think would survive longer if there was a zombie apocalypse. Maybe.
0:50:44Yeah yeah why do you think you are. I think I would be more willing to get my hands dirty and do violent things.
0:50:55I've been watching a lot of walking dead lately so I'm also well prepared.
0:51:00Yes Now I know exactly where to hit him and that's a great show by the way walking dead.
0:51:05I've never been into zombie stuff.
0:51:06You know pedal into zombie movies and that and my wife said I want to start watching this Walking Dead
0:51:10and I was like OK whatever. It's good if you watch it.
0:51:15Yeah I watched it I think I think there are there are complaints to be had about the show.
0:51:20Yeah I think it's good moments are very good. Yeah but there are some sections that are not very good.
0:51:25Yeah that's just generally the stories are pretty good like I'm just into the people
0:51:29and the zombies of course have become peripheral to the show.
0:51:33But they're just like they're just like the hazards like you know they're just a generic hazard that is just always
0:51:38there.
0:51:39How do you think would last longer in a zombie apocalypse of the two of us there is no doubt about it that it would be
0:51:45you who discussed previously you are hard as nails. That's true but I love hearing you say.
0:51:54And if there was a real zombie apocalypse check it out right in there.
0:52:00I don't need to be around for any of these whores.
0:52:02If civilization has really gone down and it's a we need to start over time forget it.
0:52:08You go on without me everyone is another fortune you have you going to fuck this night like I'm going to die I just
0:52:16think kinds of artists.
0:52:17I'm like this with plane crashes I just think I'd survive I think for some reason I just think it would be bad
0:52:22but you know I get by the flip side of this is probably also be better for everybody if I did just take myself out as I
0:52:29actually really would
0:52:30but if they if for some reason I did survive the zombie apocalypse now just like I'm going to go on.
0:52:37I always find myself siding with the more ruthless characters and situations in any kind of zombie apocalypse section.
0:52:44We always have the good guy who wants to do the right thing
0:52:46and then the villain you know is always portrayed as like oh look at that.
0:52:50That Meenie had
0:52:51but I'm often thinking like no this is a zombie apocalypse like you gotta do whatever it takes to survive.
0:52:57I thought some people were worried about how much we were without like we were fighting in the last pod cast that
0:53:02everyone should know we're still friends right.
0:53:05It's OK we argue sometimes we are good friends just one of us is more informed than the other one.
0:53:10Yes yes I am I am more informed than you are and you watch the news
0:53:17and as Mark Twain quote goes then you are misinformed.
0:53:20Can I just say by the way just on this topic for the for the record I don't watch
0:53:25and devour that much news I think people have to have may now have some impression that I'm just constantly reading
0:53:31news and not like I don't watch the T.V. News every day I watch the T.V.
0:53:34News maybe once or twice a week if it happens to coincide with when I'm having my dinner
0:53:39and then I'll just have a quick look at the website a few times a day and so very often I'll just look at it
0:53:44and go well that's boring and not ready to say I'm not like this news hound who isn't devouring everything.
0:53:51Added I'm not justifying defending anything I'm just I just want people to realize that there's a kind of perfect
0:53:55and it leads into something I've kind of wanted to be talking about for a little bit.
0:54:00But I think that the news conversation brought it up and what would you said fit into that.
0:54:04I don't know a word for this.
0:54:06I'm not going try to coin a word for it but I feel like when there's like a half life to transmission of subtlety
0:54:14or nuance in arguments when you're trying to talk to somebody else
0:54:20or like a conversation that gets transmitted over the Internet.
0:54:24And so to try to explain what I mean by this if you listen to our last episode we kind of fall victim to this where we
0:54:32start out by talking about does it make sense to follow the news
0:54:36and even though both of us try very hard not to we end up having a conversation about whether or not the news is good
0:54:45or is the news bad and I often find that all kinds of conversations.
0:54:51Devolve or are they dk into this kind of argument that just ends up as a like thing is all good
0:54:58or the thing is all bad.
0:55:00Those arguments are rarely useful
0:55:03or interesting was why I was shockingly frustrating to try to listen to us talk about it last time
0:55:07and I was really angry with myself like editing the podcast
0:55:11and I know you you said you felt like you didn't say things you wanted to say last time
0:55:17but everything just kind of ends of devolving into a conversation about something being one hundred percent good
0:55:21or one hundred percent bad and I think it's sort of natural in conversation.
0:55:26But like frustrating once you tune into it as a as a pattern I mean that I mean that was pretty fundamental to our
0:55:35different views so because your whoa it feels like your one of your main reasons for not following you is that the news
0:55:44is not worthy of following because you think it's so poorly done.
0:55:48I mean that's a real thread that ran through what you were saying.
0:55:51Yeah yeah and so I think I think it's in some ways it's a necessary discussion. But yeah but what I mean is it is.
0:56:00It's interesting then
0:56:00when other people listen to that conversation like you said they come away with this impression that you follow the
0:56:06news much more than you do because I think it's like this glowing bacon.
0:56:10Right right right but I don't think that's exactly right
0:56:13and I saw this in the conversation online people then talk about you as the defender of the perfect news
0:56:21and then the flip happens as well as like C G P Gray knows nothing about the world
0:56:27and think there's never been a good news broadcast ever.
0:56:31And this is this is what I mean by like there's like a decay of subtlety as a conversation continues there between two
0:56:38people or particularly when it gets transmitted
0:56:40and like another example which I think is just interesting to have seen because it's taking place over such a long
0:56:46period of time is to jump back to some of our earlier podcast we were talking about language and you know whether
0:56:52or not language you know we had a big debate on like the worthiness of languages and some sense of foreign languages
0:56:58and. I've had this rather narrow perspective which covered a bunch of points.
0:57:04I don't think foreign languages should be required subjects in schools for multiple year periods of time which allows a
0:57:13whole bunch of things. I think you know they should be optional things that people can take.
0:57:18I'm perfectly fine with the fact that people speak for her languages
0:57:21but I have been aware that even still on the Internet I get people yelling at me because they are of the opinion that I
0:57:28just hate the existence of all foreign languages and this is what I mean by like this kind of decay it turns in.
0:57:35It's like either you have to love something in its entirety or you don't.
0:57:40And it's like it's hard to trans transmit for a long distance over time or in a conversation
0:57:47and opinion that is in the middle.
0:57:49I think it's also an interesting thing to keep in mind when you're hearing people talk about other people for example.
0:58:00One of the pockets I really like to listen to is something called Intelligence Squared which is a debate podcast
0:58:07and one of the reasons I like that.
0:58:09Listening to that so much is because it's one of the few times I get to hear people that I don't agree with explain
0:58:18themselves fully and I often find myself listening to that and thinking you know what you haven't changed my mind
0:58:28but you are not nearly as crazy as other people said you were
0:58:33or your position is not even remotely as unreasonable as I was under the impression that it was I guess this is just a
0:58:41thing that I like I feel it's in. Especially on the Internet it's interesting to keep in mind that if the only thing.
0:58:49If you've ever heard about somebody is what other people have said about that person.
0:58:55That's just something to be aware of that like their their position is going to be magnified into a much more good
0:59:03or much more bad version of what it possibly is the ironic
0:59:06and kind of metta thing about all this is this is probably one of the biggest problems that the modern news media
0:59:11suffers from is it's its desire for people to be polarized like a lot to be to be in Camp A or Camp A
0:59:19and they have to pay no middle ground so it's funny that a discussion about the problems with news media has suffered
0:59:25from the same thing.
0:59:26One thing that came up over
0:59:27and over again was a question about oh you need to watch the news in order to be informed as a voter.
0:59:32Well
0:59:33when you're watching the news if you're really watching the news how often are you learning something about the other
0:59:40side whichever team you picked in this sports game
0:59:45and how often are you just watching two two you haven't really confirmed that the other team is nothing
0:59:53but one hundred percent evil and or stupid. That's the same kind of thing. Now again I'm not saying that there aren't.
1:00:00The evil and or stupid people in the world there are lots of those
1:00:03but it doesn't change the fact that like very often people have more nuanced opinions than other people tell you they
1:00:10have. I ran into this just so many times first handed when I was doing my my European Union video.
1:00:17People people might not know but they like it here in the U.K.
1:00:21There is in particular a lot of I would say negative feelings towards the European Union.
1:00:28Yeah it's much like it's measurable it's like on poles you can see that the U.K. People in the U.K.
1:00:34Are always least least favorable opinions of the E.U.
1:00:37and What I was doing research the video I came across just an enormous number of stories that seemed out rageous about
1:00:43stuff that the E.U.
1:00:45Wanted Britain to do or that they wouldn't allow Britain to do or whatever it was
1:00:49and without fail I would find the stories I think boy that is just unbelievable what a great piece of information to
1:00:54include in a video and you go in the end you search it out and you find out what the situation is
1:00:59and you go OK there was like some kernel of truth to this but you left out all of the contingencies
1:01:06or you left out all of the particular circumstances under which it would apply
1:01:10and if you include all the information suddenly it's like oh this is actually quite reasonable or boring
1:01:16and say I just like stuff just gets totally magnified where it becomes just completely. Bad and some.
1:01:21Some story about like a health regulation gets turned into a story about how all British oil production will be halted
1:01:29forever says you let me give you one more reason for you to follow the news
1:01:33and because you know what you've been saying to me you're crying out for a reason.
1:01:37Don't take this too seriously it's a bit shaky.
1:01:40OK but here's one more reason for you to stop following the news and appeals to your statistical.
1:01:47I'm going to postulate I'm going to put the idea out there that not following the news is one more data point that
1:01:58suggests that maybe.
1:02:03There are certain things that if I know that someone I want I want to judge them I won't judge them.
1:02:10But once these data points reach a critical mass you start to think hang on maybe discuss for example if I said to you
1:02:18I've got this friend he's like he's twenty years old.
1:02:21He always wears a top hat everywhere he goes he wears a top hat you know you're going to be OK Maybe we'll go out
1:02:30and I want to meet him first but there's a potential there
1:02:35and if you meet someone who says you know I will only eat oh oh food with my right hand
1:02:39but I will any carrots with my left hand. OK maybe there's a reason.
1:02:45Maybe that's just quirky but I'm beginning to think it could be a waiter.
1:02:50You learn those two facts about that same as you start and as you start finding out more
1:02:55and more things about someone there is there are facts about someone like they're something.
1:03:00It's a generic but there are some facts that put you either more likely to be less likely to be right
1:03:06and I would say talk puts you in the category that carrot thing of what you're doing here is a Basie in calculation.
1:03:12Yes And I'm saying and I'm saying if you were to take someone off the street and said I've got this friend
1:03:19and he just never watches the news religiously never watches on T.V.
1:03:22Never looks at a newspaper just just avoids the news if I said that about some of this might
1:03:28and that's what he's like doesn't mean you're a weirdo.
1:03:32But that be like OK what else can you tell me about him if he want to talk about like so I think I think you're a long
1:03:42way from being aware and you know because I know you very well and you're completely normal
1:03:46but what I'm saying is that is a data point that puts you on the widow spectrum I could not be less convinced by this
1:03:54argument. Theoretical people I don't know might include this in the base of the income.
1:04:00Elation about whether or not I'm weird this is this is totally unconvincing.
1:04:04I was I was going to say that since we had that conversation I have been much more aware I was trying to go what you
1:04:08know where do I actually see the news
1:04:11and there's a couple things that I mentioned last time which of course is that you can't go on Twitter
1:04:16or read it without coming across the news which can as well like I don't avoid the news but I don't seek it out
1:04:23but of course I realize there's two other sort of big sources where I will see news without seeking it out.
1:04:29And one of those is we have a subscription to The Economist in my house which might be as people it is a gift for my
1:04:37wife she loves reading The Economist and so very often on the weekends she'll be drinking a cup of coffee
1:04:42and sitting on the couch and reading the Economist.
1:04:45And since I take in the mail I always see the covers of The Economist I see the headline stories and
1:04:51when my wife reads through it occasionally she brings up something that was of interest to her that she shall mention
1:04:56to me that maybe I'll be interested in.
1:04:58So my I have my wife is kind of a filter and then I see the headlines on the Economist
1:05:03and then the other place where I see the news which frankly if I could turn it off I would.
1:05:08Is at the gym every time I go into the gym I don't know what I don't know if it's the same channel all the time
1:05:15but they have the two huge impossible to avoid screens that just run the news all the time and.
1:05:23I can't really hear it usually from where I am but I can see it
1:05:26and as far as I can tell it's almost always fires groups of like images of groups of people doing something that I have
1:05:33no idea what it is or blinky lights like sirens but I was I was watching the news
1:05:39and I think I went to that you know since that last time I've been to the gym I don't know
1:05:43but you know I go three times a week so whatever it is I've been five times
1:05:46and I think I saw every single time I went in there there was an image of something on fire somewhere in the world
1:05:51and his name boy those new people they love the fires they look so good on screen.
1:05:55I don't think anything can burst into flames anywhere without it being covered on the news. You have got.
1:06:00To read a book which was not recommended on inaudible I don't think of the humans you have got to read that book
1:06:06because sometimes you talk just like the main character in that book.
1:06:10He's an alien who comes to earth and I when I went to pull out my life.
1:06:16So I like huge news events I will I will see them they'll be on the cover of The Economist.
1:06:20They'll be on the new screen that when I go to the gym and you know I'll see them on the internet again.
1:06:25I don't I don't avoid the news but I just I'm just not seeking it out.
1:06:28I don't think he's saying oh look a group of people
1:06:30and blinking lights on a screen counts as you devouring that news in any way whatsoever.
1:06:35But sometimes the words are on the screen and I see something that seemed to go left and I was at the gym.
1:06:42There were times there were some someone had flown a drone into the White House or something like I see what it is.
1:06:49But most the time it looks like fires or groups of people being angry about something.
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1:08:22Hello Internet. That's the name of this podcast obviously in the know that you came from us.
1:08:28When you're checking out hello internet
1:08:30and you say fifty percent on your first month this offer expires on oh I proposed I will first two thousand
1:08:38and fifteen. Thank you to harvest for sponsoring our show speaking of the White House.
1:08:46Sure we talk about this interviewing of the oh yeah yeah this is kind of connected to this.
1:08:50Yeah that was we had as a topic to talk about.
1:08:53So before we start I think we should declare a conflict of interest here because Hank grain the model of brothers fame
1:09:02in various other channels he would have to mention no doubt his business empire does sell out hello internet T.
1:09:08Shirts along with other merchandise for both of us. Yes So we haven't an interest in Hank.
1:09:13He's going to make us millionaires one day he better through it through the sale of T. Shirts and posters.
1:09:19I think there's a lot for the Internet and for the world. Yes but he also sells our T.
1:09:24Shirts and you know federal fund raising and stuff so is this conflict of interest everywhere which will declare
1:09:29but OK But anyway let's forget about that and talk about why he's been in the news this week.
1:09:34Hank along with two other You Tubers got a chance to interview the president the president of the United States you
1:09:41U.S.
1:09:42Centric person you listen after the you know the only time you need to specify who the president is is if you're not
1:09:49talking about the president of the United States you don't need to say the president of the United States.
1:09:55I'm terribly sorry that we're not talking about the president of Australia.
1:10:00There is no president of Australia and they didn't know that I'm very sorry brainy president of Burundi.
1:10:08Apparently has a president so don't you follow the news about Brandy its a whole country.
1:10:12Yeah well you know maybe I should he should.
1:10:15Yeah well I felt that that is a that's a gap in my knowledge of either
1:10:19or logic routines if you follow the news about to Djibouti.
1:10:22I get the good times to live if you even know what digit beauty is yeah yeah yeah.
1:10:28Describe to me where did you go to yours.
1:10:30It is is actually on earth right in the path of an asteroid I can tell you about.
1:10:36I'm disappointed that you don't follow politics everywhere in the world. I'm sorry.
1:10:40Important things going on and did you pretty so you are saying hang grain
1:10:43and to either you just got to interview the president of Yes Apparently now.
1:10:49If United States one no one of a very recent rash of left handed presidents.
1:10:56Oh yeah for government you're left handed as a man and I did not know he was left handed.
1:11:00Well you would have if you saw him signing an autograph
1:11:02or Hank on that video because he signed it with his left hand
1:11:05when he signed that picture if I think you know I don't divide people into left
1:11:08and right handers we're just we're all just all people. I totally to really into left handedness.
1:11:14Anyway let's get let's get back on track here. Hank wrote an article about the experience called holy.
1:11:22I interviewed the president.
1:11:24Yes which I can't say because I has a swear word and that's what I was reading the title there.
1:11:28Thank you I was doing you a little favor it was a really good article by Hank.
1:11:31There was a lot of talk about some of these youtube is ensuring the president and a lot of you know stuff going on
1:11:36and I think the article cut through a lot of the rubbish
1:11:39and got to the nub of what this was really about which is what I found interesting.
1:11:44It kind of talks about the relationship between the mainstream media
1:11:48and You Tube One of the main things that Hank is talking about is is how the big news organizations all be little this
1:11:59one.
1:12:00One of the interviewers is known for doing stunts on You Tube So the one that I'm most aware of was the cinnamon
1:12:06challenge that she did a while ago did you see this going around I did not know.
1:12:10They're pretty funny videos
1:12:12but the challenge is basically to put a whole bunch of cinnamon in your mouth at once like this big spoonful of
1:12:17cinnamon and it's another thing that you would think would be easy
1:12:20but you have this her wrist quickly violent reaction against all of the sentiment
1:12:24and people just end up spitting it out all over the camera.
1:12:28But so of course the news media would open the segment about these are the people who interview the president
1:12:36and then show the videos of her doing something ridiculous.
1:12:39Yeah yeah and in a way to try to to be a little bit
1:12:43and you can do the same thing with you know you know with like Hanks videos you can go through
1:12:48and find old videos of Hank looking dominant put that on the news
1:12:51but look at the view to interview the president he has to try to skip a rant it wasn't because he's banks quite well
1:12:56known for his sort of passionate rants about things that he's you know he's he's causing things
1:13:01and that's exactly it so you can show a three second out of context clip of Hank being really ranting about something
1:13:08and make him look like a fool but you know you can see there's nobody on youtube
1:13:11but you couldn't do that with you know you could take you could take any section of this podcast
1:13:15and just cut it out of out of order and make it look like an idiot.
1:13:18You wouldn't even need to take it out of context with us.
1:13:21It was the last part cast really banks kind of main point was about legitimacy
1:13:29and how if if you're looking at particularly the younger demographics that they just don't view kind of mainstream news
1:13:38as having any any legitimacy.
1:13:41And like it or not younger people have developed a relationship with people like Hank
1:13:48and with other You Tubers because I mean particularly with the blog you see them two times every week you know you kind
1:13:55of you know who they are you build up a relationship with them over time of watching.
1:14:00You know what they're like
1:14:02and so it's not surprising that many people would be really interested to see an interview with people that they feel
1:14:09they have some kind of connection with talking to the president and I just want to look it up actually.
1:14:15And right now because the interview was uploaded to whitehouse dot gov And at the moment it is it is the sixth most
1:14:24popular video on the channel and it's sixth with a bullet because it was uploaded five days ago
1:14:31and it has three million views.
1:14:32The number one video has seven million views and it is from two years ago and all the video the top at our one year
1:14:40or older.
1:14:41Like how many how many people watch an interview with the president on a regular news rashly I wonder how many people
1:14:49watch the presidential debates. I liked what he had to say.
1:14:52I think he's you know he talked a bit about how the mainstream media has this legacy of being like the big the the go
1:14:59to people
1:15:00and they've just shot themselves in the foot over time in how I feel Hank was saying you know these days people with
1:15:06the authorities and just with all the things they do over the years and years I've lost and new people have come along.
1:15:13Lucky cheaters
1:15:14and have fueled it so much if you keep it to fill the vacuum of kind of trusted people because young people just don't
1:15:23trust.
1:15:24The news channels so much anymore because they've just you know betrayed them a few too many times I think
1:15:33and you know it makes sense you know makes you know of course a politician is going to utilize that land
1:15:39and use that as an as an as a way to get to these audiences I think that's completely valid.
1:15:46What what a politician would exploit that and you know the president said that himself didn't
1:15:51and at the end of the kind of the interview he said Thanks Guys thanks for letting me get to your audience
1:15:56and tell them talk to them and of course the yeshivas.
1:16:00Going to take the opportunity because as you know the president has been beneficial to both parties.
1:16:07None of the people doing the interview aren't necessarily making claims that they are objective journalists.
1:16:15They Hank was being really clear about that this is not his.
1:16:17His role in the interview that he was just going in as a citizen and doing an interview
1:16:25but he wasn't going in there pretending to or genuinely trying to be some kind of completely objective person
1:16:34and I mean obviously he's very he came across as very I thought I thought his questions were excellent.
1:16:39But at the end of the she came across as very pro Obama.
1:16:43Yeah but his his underlying point was that people can connect with that more.
1:16:50It's more honest is not Hank They want much more of it so that he wore he wore on his sleeves not like sort of Fox who
1:16:56obviously has an agenda but they never say it like
1:16:59but it's so we're as heck was very honest he's not pro about it I will ask you a few difficult questions because I want
1:17:06answers to these things when I do go back to America and I see American T.V.
1:17:11News you know having been separated from it for years.
1:17:14It just seems so appalling
1:17:17and I do I do find it just almost offensive how much American news goes out of its way to tell you how objective it is
1:17:26and it is just so obviously not objective.
1:17:30Play it like you have to experience this just constant cognitive dissonance when you're watching. Most American T.V.
1:17:37News Hank doing an interview
1:17:39or you can totally understand why people would be interested in seeing it because like I know this person is I have
1:17:44some sense of where they stand and they're not pretending to be something that they're not. Anyway so there you go.
1:17:52You can read Hanks article. You can even watch an interview the president and you know is maybe next year it will be.
1:17:59Hello Internet. The cold up to meet the president and do the interview sounds like a lot of hassle.
1:18:04Would you do it if you go fast. I don't know. Maybe men your parents would be so disappointed if you didn't.
1:18:18OK You know that's not how I make decisions I think it would depend on a lot of the particulars I'm not sure I would be
1:18:25a good interviewer Anyway I don't think you would
1:18:28but you should do it I don't think I would be appropriate after what after watching after watching
1:18:33and I don't think I'd be the right.
1:18:35Because Still the questions which is so important and like and kind of with
1:18:41and I have to say as far as interviews with the president goes I enjoyed this one more than almost any other one of
1:18:48watch it was really good
1:18:49but I just want to ask you from stuff I would love to see a Brady interview the president video because you always ask
1:18:57these great questions like for example
1:18:59when the president first sat down with Hank Hank made some joke about Thanks for having me in your house
1:19:04and sort of stuff and the president of the company got two years left on the place and I hope I get my deposit back.
1:19:10And some come and I thought it looked after and I just got cracking on the important issues of weapons and marijuana
1:19:17and stuff but I would like to ask him Have you ever broken anything in the house but have you gone to open a door
1:19:24or something and the handle broke
1:19:26or have you ever spilled something on a nice carpet like that because this is really sacred this building you have to
1:19:33rattle around in and I don't want to ask him stuff about the White House
1:19:36and I would love to see your interview with the man of the people get really mad at that I would say the reason people
1:19:42say you shouldn't have a You Tube interview the president because it'll be like you got these fifteen minutes of the
1:19:47president and you wasted on you know all this trivia
1:19:51and you should've been asking him about you know the big issues of the day
1:19:54and I'm like well he's always being asked about the big issues of the day I want to know you like. Other stuff.
1:20:01I completely agree. Like spilling stuff.
1:20:04I would be worried about that one of things I think about at the desk that the presidents have.
1:20:08Yes it's for some reason I woke up and discovered that I was the president of America.
1:20:13Step one would be OK look we need to get the desk out of here because I need to work on this thing
1:20:19and I don't want to be worried about spilling coffee on this ink this historical object has been around forever.
1:20:26But give me some other debts that I can work at for photo shoots will bring this thing in
1:20:30and find you know whatever you have to be sitting at the desk.
1:20:32But on a day to day basis I want something different they don't have to worry about every time I see that ask I think I
1:20:39could not work on that surface I would be very nervous about it. You know presidents actually do.
1:20:43Maybe it's only there for the photo shoot. That's what I would want to know.
1:20:46Yeah I mean my question is do you really work at that with your morning routine like.
1:20:51I don't think we're going to get the cold up and I have to say I was I was impressed but I know I was impressed but.
1:20:58How did you know I had asked him a few questions but I think I was good and I was impressed by the S.S.
1:21:03I enjoyed it I enjoyed it.
1:21:05Well John hack you can do it again next year
1:21:09and it's loaded into an annual annual thing with Hank because I'll just be asking him all sorts of stupid stuff about
1:21:15being left handed and stuff.
1:21:17If anybody who listened to this Perkins has connections to the White House now
1:21:21or in the future if you bring your Brady on that list maybe we should get him on the podcast. Do we do.
1:21:28Guests on this pod cast I don't think we do make an exception for him.
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1:23:04We're now actually going to try to talk about You Tube a little bit.
1:23:06Wow amazing I don't know if I have anything to say I don't have much about You Tube
1:23:11and some who are so out of the news cycle because of our recording schedule that by the time it goes up I don't know
1:23:17maybe things will have changed the thing I think I want to talk about was this article by Keating do you know is that
1:23:26we Keating Are you aware of.
1:23:27She's a musician not a quest excess with musician on You Tube and so are we kidding is this musician
1:23:33and I was looking through my i Tunes purchases
1:23:37and as far as I can tell she is the only person that I have ever bought a complete album from what I really like that
1:23:46we Keating's music and her stuff is my default go to
1:23:50when I want something to listen to that doesn't have English lyrics in it it is her playing the cello looped over
1:23:56itself a whole bunch of times. Yeah I was trying to get her to describe it.
1:24:00The other thing I can come up with is modern classical music
1:24:04but I mean modern in all of the all of the best possible way.
1:24:09I really like your I highly recommend her music and yes the only the only albums I have ever bought and bought
1:24:15and listened when I last one came out into the trees
1:24:18when I thought I got a new album is going to buy it I don't even need to listen to what I write and I really like it.
1:24:23High price but she didn't write this article about what it's like making modern classical music.
1:24:28Last summer I was trying to get a little background on her.
1:24:30I'm going about this kind of you know I'm shepherding Yeah I'm shepherding you along. Thank you very much.
1:24:35Kind of Hiero here it is your role here and I'm also terrible at this.
1:24:38Basically get to the point that she wrote this article called What should I do about You Tube.
1:24:44The bottom line is she puts her music up on You Tube We think of You Tube as a video platform
1:24:52but him in very many ways You Tube is actually a music platform.
1:24:57If you actually just look at the view numbers music dominates by this enormous amount I mean in the eyes of each week
1:25:07we don't think just because we think we're the center of the universe but very occasionally you get this glimpse
1:25:12when you cheapen things and in the eyes of each other there's always musicians and then maybe some gamers and stuff
1:25:19but always music making the most money and we have just nothing like people making videos that we make.
1:25:25It's a process I even pick up the phone to us.
1:25:27We're so small I would love to know the exact breakdown
1:25:31but I would not be the least bit surprised if somebody at You Tube says ninety
1:25:36or ninety five percent of our advertising revenue comes from people watching music videos everything else right from
1:25:42pupae down to the tiniest bloggers is less than five percent of our revenue. You know I would be not surprised at all.
1:25:50Yeah because when you look at how much the music is listen to it is just phenomenal.
1:25:55So You Tube is really a music service that incidentally shows video.
1:26:00And so not surprisingly You Tube has been working on developing a platform to to leverage this.
1:26:09So they have this it's called Google music service now or You Tube music service
1:26:14and the idea is that people can sign up to pay for the You Tube music service
1:26:20and they get some premium features one of which is that there won't be ads on their music videos if they're signed up
1:26:26for the service which I think makes good financial sense.
1:26:29Like my my my wife uses youtube almost exclusively to listen to music which I find interesting
1:26:35and she does use it so differently than I do and I hate it when he had come on
1:26:40and I feel I guess I would happily have her paid to go on to the service so that when we're just listening to music
1:26:45and she's running it on these these automatically generated playlists on You Tube We don't have that that would be
1:26:49great. So it's in the consumer side of it.
1:26:51But so what happened with Zoe Keating is that You Tube approached her
1:26:55and said hey if you're going to put your music on You Tube You have to agree to all of our terms
1:27:01and you have to be part of this You Tube music service. Yeah.
1:27:05And the bullet point for the terms are one that all of the music that you have on you tube. Must be monetized.
1:27:14It has to run ads for the people who don't join the music service.
1:27:19So like musicians could not put up their music
1:27:22and say you know what I don't want to have ads I just want to do album sales.
1:27:25Now you know you have to have ads on the video because presumably You Tube wants to provide an incentive for people to
1:27:31sign up for the music service.
1:27:32The second thing which is the really big deal is that all of the music must be on You Tube so she can't decide to say
1:27:40oh mommy going to put up my old music on You Tube Now everything has to be on You Tube that she makes
1:27:46and any time she releases anywhere else she has to release the music at the same time on youtube.
1:27:54So this is basically a a like a no exclusivity deal if she something that she might want to do.
1:28:00Which is something like something I wish I could do is hey I would love to be able to give the music to the people who
1:28:06supported me first like that we Keating was to say oh here I made this new album.
1:28:11People who directly paid to help me you get to listen to it first.
1:28:14Now as soon as it's available it has to also be available on You Tube so you can't do any exclusive things
1:28:21and then the final one which to me is the mindblowing one is she has to sign a contract with You Tube to agree to these
1:28:29terms for five years or five years so that's good at least two shows Google doesn't know something about an asteroid
1:28:39and telling us I guess now I mean like maybe people don't think that these are draconian terms they are really limiting
1:28:47that for an artist. They're basically saying you can't do anything special.
1:28:53Anywhere else she has a different account to us doesn't she she has like a musician's You Tube account.
1:28:58Yeah it's the perks of the musician's account that we don't have. What's what's she getting in exchange for this.
1:29:03She's get it because they can. She's getting something we don't get isn't she.
1:29:07Presumably she is going to get a cut of the money that comes from You Tube's music service.
1:29:12Yeah I don't know any of the details of that it would be insanity if she wasn't of course here
1:29:17but if she doesn't do this if she says Thanks for the offer
1:29:20but I was going to keep doing what I've normally been doing that's not an option for her as well apparently she's
1:29:24either all in or she's off You Tube entirely
1:29:27and it's a big it's a big deal because it's obvious that we Keating is the one who wrote this up
1:29:33but this is this is obviously You Tube's plan for all music on the site.
1:29:38You make music you want to put it up on You Tube You are going to be sucked into their music program
1:29:43and then suddenly you can't do any kind of special deals anywhere else if you want to put up your music without ads
1:29:49tough luck you can't you have to put up with it with ads
1:29:52and you have to be locked in for five years I can understand if I said you can't put on another video.
1:29:58But to not be allowed to run.
1:30:00I'm going to say oh well I'm not going to release this one into a video I saw
1:30:03and it's going to I'm just going to sell it on i Tunes or on my own personal site. Yeah.
1:30:08Nope it's all your music are belong to us. So the five year thing to me seems really just crazy limiting.
1:30:17I look back on my career
1:30:18and actually is it in just a couple days it will be my four year anniversary on You Tube from uploading that U.K.
1:30:25Video.
1:30:26So like five years going forward is longer than I have been a professional You Tuber
1:30:32and that whole thing you know didn't start very long before me. Five years is forever on the Internet. Yeah.
1:30:38Internet yours are Fibonacci dog years so stick with me on the phone for a second.
1:30:46You've already got me good so a dog year is seven years and the Fibonacci sequence is
1:30:51when you keep summing up the previous results. Yeah one year is seven years. Two years is fourteen years.
1:30:59I'm pretending like zero seven. Just stick with me for a second.
1:31:02Two years fourteen years three years on the internet though is the sum of the previous two.
1:31:09So in twenty one years in an in real life for Internet years then is thirty five years
1:31:17and five Internet years from my perspective is like fifty six years in the normal world.
1:31:23Not an army
1:31:23and I think maybe you slug ever started a case where I don't think I have slightly overstated the case I think five
1:31:28years being fifty years is about the same I have been doing this for about five or five years.
1:31:35You had you had a whole life time and I don't feel like a fifty six years but I'll give you twenty years.
1:31:40Here's here's a reason why I think about it this way.
1:31:42I have companies come to me with some terrible business proposal and you know they want me to sign something
1:31:50and it's for Internet business for three years or five years or whatever and I would just
1:31:56and I would never sign that kind of contract because.
1:32:00Just the massive massive opportunity cost of not knowing what is going to be the situation on the internet five years
1:32:09from now.
1:32:10I just think things change so fast on the Internet that you you can't promise anything five years from now I mean your
1:32:20cat is but you told me about a deal you did recently where you said OK let's try it for a month and you did.
1:32:25And after a week you were like I need out of this. So we don't we don't we don't have to be specific about that.
1:32:35But but yes there there was a business arrangement where I refused to commit for more than thirty days
1:32:42and seven days into it I wanted out.
1:32:45So yes that that happens and in the gray system that was a good two
1:32:50or three year relationship you know it's like that's exactly like I should figure out what that is that is about as far
1:32:57as I'm concerned
1:32:59but I guess I just think like trying to project forward into the future like that is just is just crazy I mean you
1:33:03think about the music business or just how people make a living on the Internet.
1:33:08How how much of that has changed in the last five years
1:33:11and then to to commit to a system where you can't do anything really exclusive for five years into the future.
1:33:20That's just it's just crazy it's is way too much to ask.
1:33:24It's way too much to ask I don't know I mean were they offering her like a big bucket load of money from the start
1:33:29or was not that's crazy. Especially on something as something speculative.
1:33:34The impression that I get is that no they're not being offered anything if you want to make your music on You Tube You
1:33:40have to you have to get into the system. What's what do I take from this great Come on.
1:33:45Obviously the five to five years obviously is sticking in your core here
1:33:49but let's let's get to the you know if I if I'm being fair about it.
1:33:54You Tube is not You Tube has every right to do this. You Tube is a company and they're offering a service.
1:34:02They host your videos they host my videos.
1:34:05The number of things I don't have to worry about because You Tube takes care of it is a lot you know I want to try to
1:34:10host my own videos in that this is like a big hassle.
1:34:13So You Tube is a company that offers a service
1:34:16and in some sense well they can do what they want with it if they want to change the way music operates on their
1:34:22service. Well you don't pay anything for You Tube It's just a question of do you think this is worth it or not.
1:34:28No they're get they're giving her they're giving her this this moment
1:34:31and they're giving all musicians really is a moment of it's my way or the highway. They have every right to do that.
1:34:37But all this makes me think it is.
1:34:39I've been coming more and more to this conclusion
1:34:41and I really feel that strongly now that good God does the Internet need a real competitor to You Tube This is this is
1:34:49kind of my my thought on this is like a You Tube can feel pretty confident.
1:34:55Forcing people into a terrible deal because there's no there's no competition really that exists right now.
1:35:05Because if if there was some kind of viable competition for You Tube they wouldn't feel as comfortable as comfortable
1:35:12just offering the blanket deals. You Tube is there.
1:35:18Everyone knows I like economics right so there's this funny situation where You Tube is kind of a monopoly that if you
1:35:26want to watch videos You Tube is really the place to go.
1:35:30But they're also this thing which is called a monopsony which is an economic term for
1:35:37when there is only one buyer of something but there are very many producers. That's also a really terrible situation.
1:35:46But You Tube is a monopsony in the sense that there are very many people like us.
1:35:51Like many musicians who produce content in video form. But if you want to make any money off of you. Or productions.
1:36:01Really the only buyer of those products in town is You Tube and it's just it's just not a good situation.
1:36:10I would genuinely wish that there was a competitor to You Tube And I think that competition make would make everybody
1:36:17better off. I think it would it would provide incentives to You Tube to improve their system.
1:36:21It would provide incentives to the competitor to improve their system.
1:36:25That's what I was really sad
1:36:26when we mentioned several episodes ago that we heard you know whispers on the wind that Yahoo was going to create a
1:36:32youtube competitor and that that seems to have gone nowhere.
1:36:37I was genuinely hoping that that was real that that Yahoo would announce OK we have we have some competition to to put
1:36:44into the market but that seems to me that seems to not be the case so far.
1:36:48Clearly we're saying Facebook May he moves away because Facebook Not only are they pushing their video harder
1:36:54and harder they're pushing they're beginning to push You Tube or Facebook in funny kinds of ways and it's harder
1:37:00and harder to get your own You Tube videos on Facebook so.
1:37:03Like as I say I think I mean don't don't start me on the problems with Facebook
1:37:08and watch destines freebasing video we talked about earlier and that summarizes my attitude to Facebook and video.
1:37:15But putting putting the freebooting thing aside. Yeah Facebook is obviously getting into the video business.
1:37:20Yeah and this to me is is even worse. Oh OK Well You Tube takes a huge portion of the advertising money.
1:37:29You Tube has a big big amount of control over the market.
1:37:34But Facebook's business seems to be oh you can upload your video to Facebook please do that.
1:37:40We're just going to keep all of them like that surely that's a precursor to that changing.
1:37:45Surely the plan is going to pay they're going to as it becomes more popular. Maybe it's not on Facebook pretty rubbish.
1:37:53Face Facebook is terrible and it doesn't it doesn't fill me with hope when they're clearly getting in.
1:38:00As a video business
1:38:01but the starting point is you get zero percent of the money if you make a video for you to kind of split it with with
1:38:10You Tube But Facebook is just like I don't want to take all of it you will get none of the advertising revenue you will
1:38:16just be happy to have the views that that video game. Hope you hope you enjoy those.
1:38:21So so Facebook is kind of worse than a Facebook turns out to be the You Tube competitor I'm not sure that that's a huge
1:38:28that's a huge improvement.
1:38:29I don't know about you I think you fall into this category and I definitely fall into this category that
1:38:34when I started on You Tube views was all I wanted when I started getting money it wasn't even an option yet
1:38:41and one day about this email saying I do want to start you know going to be his partner program
1:38:45and I'm like I don't even know what this is I didn't know this was a thing so.
1:38:50So to save I mean maybe at the start maybe Facebook is going through what you went through.
1:38:55Obviously you know they were in a moment you a sense in the day just at the moment these are all people one
1:39:01and then later on it'll be well OK now it's time to share the love kind of like You Tube Did you know start it was just
1:39:08people were just happy for them to have their videos on the Internet and then suddenly I know I realize now people
1:39:14when people stop putting videos on the Internet they're thinking money from the start
1:39:17but a lot of people don't just didn't used to start that way. That's true but we're also at a different situation.
1:39:23I am not one hundred percent sure.
1:39:26How much advertising was on You Tube But still you're right whereas Facebook is starting with advertising everywhere.
1:39:33Yeah as I'm you know
1:39:35when I started as well the partner program was invitation only which is which is not the case anymore.
1:39:40It was
1:39:40and I got an automated email from You Tube saying that my first video had Ted trip their system of a video getting too
1:39:46popular and even then it was back in the back in the day kids. I could only monetize that video.
1:39:54I wasn't even approved to monetize everything. So you two have really limited ads as far as I can remember.
1:40:00Part I like the rest of my videos did not have ads on them where very different positions here
1:40:05and Facebook already gobbling up all the all the money and then
1:40:08when I want to suddenly start sharing if some viable competitor to You Tube came along I would feel like yes I would be
1:40:15very happy to upload my videos to them as well.
1:40:18But with Facebook it's like boy if I have if I have to choose between the two of you are not using Facebook because
1:40:26that's that's an even that's an even worse Dowrick you haven't got a choice people to steal your videos
1:40:30and put them on Facebook now anyway. Yes You know I'm already on Facebook search for me I love it.
1:40:36People always mention when this when this topic comes up is people talk about Vimeo.
1:40:40Yes So really clarify for people though you know is an interesting service
1:40:45but they are they are the exact reverse of You Tube in that they're the people who use Vimeo behave in MEO.
1:40:55That's how they make their money.
1:40:57So if you want to host videos on Vimeo you can pay me Oh so that you can have more videos at one time on their service
1:41:07and I think that you can pay to have your videos processed faster
1:41:11and I think you need to pay to have your videos shown in H.T.M.L.
1:41:14One hundred percent sure but people always say why don't you use them you know
1:41:18and I think that's why because video is more like a like a portfolio for people who want to show off a limited number
1:41:25of videos in a like an exclusive way. What's the incentive that you haven't got over that.
1:41:30Crap around I have to say that I think that it just kind of looks nice IMO I'm aware sometimes if I go to a big
1:41:36company's website
1:41:37and they've just bedded a You Tube video I often feel like boy that looks a little ghetto that just looks good
1:41:43and looks awful on your site is classier teased in the air I can say the You Tube user it is totally classier to use
1:41:50them you know if you're a company trying to play a video.
1:41:53Yeah and to me it was a great compromise because too many companies also then try to go too far
1:41:57and host their own video as I don't do. Or that you just go with him you know it just looks nicer.
1:42:02Yeah but then if you're a big company you pay to have that video on video and you pay to have it you know show knife
1:42:09and it's always there.
1:42:10So they they can't be an option for people like us who make money on the fact that lots of people watch our videos they
1:42:19would just be a would be a money would be a money think it would be a money generator.
1:42:24There is the big solution going to pay sourcing the ads yourself
1:42:28and saying this E G P Very has brought to you by McDonald's and you just getting McDonald's to give you the money
1:42:34and put it in your hand and then putting it on Facebook where millions and millions of people say it
1:42:38and Facebook take a little bit on the side where they're running their crappy ads next to I mean is that the future is
1:42:44the future doing the ads yourself which is starting to happen.
1:42:47Obviously you know if it's one of these things we're going to talk about the You Tube business the split between
1:42:54creators and You Tube is forty five fifty five percent so creators keep fifty five percent of revenue
1:42:59and You Tube keeps forty five percent and that number is very high
1:43:04and also those ads are worth very little on any particular view. We're not allowed to divulge the exact numbers but.
1:43:14This is this is why if you want to make a living purely from the You Tube advertising you need to hit big numbers every
1:43:24month like shockingly big numbers. Do you have a middle class lifestyle.
1:43:31Like I you know I have spreadsheets like I keep track of all of this.
1:43:34The numbers take people's breath away
1:43:37when you talk about how many views is equal to how much how much money I bring all of that up simply to say this is one
1:43:44of the reasons why you see You Tubers turn to things like crowd funding
1:43:51and it's why they turn to things like sponsors in their own videos because that kind of stuff makes much more of a day.
1:44:00Friends
1:44:00and it's the very fact that people can do that that kind of gives me hope for the possibility of a genuine U two competitor
1:44:11to arise one day.
1:44:13Yeah if you could generate a large enough audience that are in the videos themselves can support creators
1:44:22and people are willing to support creators through crowd funding as well
1:44:26and I also just think a competitor could just simply undercut you too I don't know the details with server costs
1:44:32and bandwidth costs which must just be gigantic. But Apple gets by on their thirty percent.
1:44:38Could a youtube competitor come by
1:44:40and say oh we're only going to take thirty percent of the advertising revenue instead of forty five percent.
1:44:45I would I would feel like that might be possible. Would you jump ship.
1:44:49You've got so many subscribers on You Tube and you can just transfer that audience to something.
1:44:54Yeah yeah because I wouldn't jump ship.
1:44:57What if they spot if they put the five year handcuffs on me so I said great five years.
1:45:04Only you know what the video service or no more video than your account place. Yeah that would be interesting.
1:45:11That heavy and by
1:45:12and according to you that people are within their rights their business they can do it I would say they would be well
1:45:18within their rights to ask for that. Not at all you know what. No they wouldn't.
1:45:24There's a good faith thing going on here you know I know they're a business
1:45:28and they're not like a you know a you know provider of service like water or something.
1:45:34But there's still a good faith thing going on here
1:45:37and they are big enough now that that would I don't agree I feel like it would be a super scummy thing to do.
1:45:44But they're clearly doing that with with you know musicians already if you two came to me tomorrow
1:45:50and said You have to sign a five year contract with us we're going to give you no benefit whatsoever
1:45:55but you have to promise to be non-exclusive with us for the next five years.
1:46:00I would seriously scramble for other alternatives.
1:46:03I might actually just say screw it I will go to Vimeo and I will I will try to depend on crowd funding
1:46:12and inbuilt ads just immediately because a five year contract to me is just crazy.
1:46:17I feel like I could not I couldn't possibly sign a contract that was five years long.
1:46:20I don't even know what I'm having for dinner in twenty minutes.
1:46:23What are we doing in five years I would like to stay on You Tube I feel no reason to leave
1:46:28but one of the things I mean in this is is this a conflict of interest I don't know but I like I have I have P.T.
1:46:33On support and some will support
1:46:36and one of the things I have often wished that I could do is is what I said at the beginning is I wish there was some
1:46:42way that I could give the video to my supporters first.
1:46:46Like I tried to work that out a whole lot
1:46:49and I've never quite found a way I like to work on my number for a picture I just I upload it unlisted
1:46:55and sometimes I just send them the link the picture on supporters at a certain level I say he's the next member of our
1:47:00video making it public in two days. You guys can watch it now.
1:47:06Yeah I mean I so I sort of do that with my with my mailing list.
1:47:10Sometimes the problem is I'm I can only do that for a few hours just to make sure that there's not some kind of huge
1:47:18problem like you know what I mean is is there not some kind of problem in the video itself.
1:47:24OK but I but I but I can see through through like my own sub Reddit that even
1:47:28when I put it on listed it gets submitted just like immediately. So that's the kind of problem.
1:47:36But if there was some technical way to to show it directly to my page on its supporters first I would totally love to
1:47:43do that. But like the You Tube Music situation would expressly forbid that.
1:47:48Today I know you and anything you release you have to release on us at the same time
1:47:53and I just feel like man even though I can't technically do that that clause is just it is death. There's another.
1:48:00A subtlety in this is a I realize this is a bit of a fringe case
1:48:03but I'm sure you could expand into a bigger case if you are creative
1:48:07and this is something that happened with me I have heard a number fall for example
1:48:12when it first started was funded some seed funding from You Tube This was years ago now but it was nice
1:48:18and part of the agreement was that I put ads on the videos and you kept the money
1:48:25and that's how they made their money back and it gave me a chance to start a new channel
1:48:29and it was very successful so I'm eternally grateful for them
1:48:33but sometimes I would do a video where I thought it would be inappropriate to have advertising on them an example would
1:48:40be if someone died and you were making like an a picture of your attribute
1:48:43or you were doing something that was charitable just a video where you felt like it would be really crass to put
1:48:48advertising on this video.
1:48:51And I contacted I would I would contact you and say look I know this is the do
1:48:56but we can put ads in this video it's just not right and they were always completely fine with it.
1:49:01They were like Yeah of course yeah. They put ads in that video.
1:49:04We completely understand and of course I don't care because it's in the law
1:49:07and they are not like you know Taylor Swift or something
1:49:10but I can imagine signing one of these deals could put you in an interesting position where sometimes you just don't
1:49:16want to have advertising on your video. Sometimes it would just spoiler it seems inappropriate.
1:49:21Yeah and I wonder whether
1:49:22or not these these new handcuffs that I think talked about could create problems there as well.
1:49:27When it when it becomes less of a one on one relationship and you can no longer just email someone
1:49:31and say you know can I have an exception. You know it's going to get it's going to get messy.
1:49:36Shootings later with my own fund raising so I don't have advertising on either of the videos where I'm talking about
1:49:41the fund raising. Oh that would be ridiculous.
1:49:44Yeah and because it's like you said it would just be just be crass to do that it would just be so disrespectful and
1:49:51when Zoe Keating talks about she has to have her music monetized
1:49:54but I wonder about is because I do the fundraisers one of the big things.
1:50:00Do as I turn off pop up ads on all of my videos.
1:50:03Yeah and I feel like that's a fair trade off where people are directly supporting me
1:50:09and there's a kind of advertising that I think is particularly intrusive
1:50:14and so that's kind of the promise you've made and that was kind of the carrot you dangled when you define race
1:50:18and you said if you help me in this way I'll help you in this way and not put these stupid pop up ads on.
1:50:23Yeah that's it that's exactly it yeah.
1:50:25And everything about this You Tube contract takes away any sort of flexibility
1:50:30and I feel like you know I feel a lot better that I don't have the stupid pop up ads on my videos
1:50:35and I know that tons of people support me because of that but I don't have those those bottom third ads
1:50:41but if you two came along I said Now if you going to monetize it it has to be everything.
1:50:45So OK Well you know this is this is a this is a problem. They have so much power to tell you because they can.
1:50:50They could also say well OK if you don't sign on to the the You Tube go deluxe five year contract we're no longer going
1:50:58to deliver to your subscribers so we're no longer going to recommend your videos as all these different ways they could.
1:51:03Punitively punishing this article definitely caught my attention because of all of these things
1:51:07and as it directly relates to our living like all of the people I just I love that people can create videos just in
1:51:15their house they can put them on the Internet and everybody can watch them like this whole system is is great
1:51:20and is wish there was more diversity in providers that it wasn't just on You Tube
1:51:24and sort of like we were saying before how You Tube is actually just primarily a music service
1:51:30and incidentally a video service.
1:51:33I kind of hope
1:51:34and wonder that that they won't actually be bothered to implement anything like this for the video creator because
1:51:41where the minorites.
1:51:42That's exactly like it doesn't it doesn't matter that it's not even worth it to them to set up some kind of system that
1:51:48they would try to long for the administration of the contracts wouldn't be working and I think that's exactly or
1:51:54or just like the rabble rousing like who wants to deal with this headache of listening to all these.
1:52:00People complain especially great has the ear of the president. Youtube bloggers a direct line to the White House.
1:52:07I'm actually kind of hoping that that's the case but
1:52:09but I you know that the music thing really has me thinking you know it's you know there's some other stuff I can't
1:52:14quite talk about but it like there's a lot of there's a lot of behind the scenes changes going on in my own business
1:52:20and boy does this article just makes me think like man I'm kind of wary of You Tube just in general
1:52:25and this makes me wary wary or various more wary.
1:52:30It gives me it gives me a lot of sympathy for the you know the part that I listen to which have Apple developers on
1:52:37them like Marco on A.T.P.
1:52:40or John Gruber on the talk show
1:52:42and I have a lot of sympathy for guys who are completely dependent on Apple for their living.
1:52:48You know where where Apple can make changes that's the same as the same kind of thing there were Apple runs this whole
1:52:53system it at any point they can change any of the rules and you know what.
1:52:56It's either you develop for Apple or you don't develop rapport. You have nothing over them really.
1:53:01You're just yapping to them and you know and it's very apparent you're very important it's a very scary thing.
1:53:09I don't know I mean you should you know Google via sort of the same thing I have always been good to you know that been
1:53:17good to us I think it's a nice and I don't know it's a bit like I said I don't know I hope the dog that I love
1:53:25and I've had a really good relationship with for a few years isn't going to bite me in the face one day.
1:53:29Yes I mean obviously you know I wouldn't I wouldn't be here doing this pod cast right now without you two.
1:53:35But this notion is slightly going away but
1:53:38when people talk about having having you know a loyalty to the company that you work for
1:53:43and I feel like well the company pays your salary
1:53:46and it gives you this whole life that you have you have to keep a sharp eye on what the company actually is.
1:53:51Yes I was like yes I owe my current career to the fact that You Tube is able to distribute my videos to millions of
1:53:57people and most importantly sir.
1:54:00Have ads in front of those videos I don't you know I don't have to be involved in any of that
1:54:03and it just it just works.
1:54:05So in that sense I am very grateful to You Tube But you know I'm under under no delusion that You Tube is that You Tube
1:54:14didn't didn't do that out of the goodness of their hearts they do that because they're a company
1:54:18and they make money off of those advertisements as well as a just you know you have to be cautious about.
1:54:24You have to be cautious about the thing and I use You Tube because you know it's a beneficial relationship to me
1:54:31and you two benefits because they take forty five percent of the advertising revenue which you know is fine high
1:54:38but is fine so that that's great
1:54:40but I would I would love to see some kind of competitor come into existence of the bottom line to have some sort of
1:54:48option. So I don't feel like I'm so dependent on You Tube and other not this monopoly monopsony.
1:54:59If you'd like to buy Helaman T. Shirt and you can find the details in the video description you know.
1:55:07All joking all joking aside one of the thing I like about podcasts is I live as I like that podcasts are not centrally
1:55:13controlled it's it might not be obvious to people who listen to it
1:55:17but the podcast world it's there isn't anything like You Tube in the pod cast. It's the Wild West.
1:55:25Yeah I mean you know I talked a long time a long time ago I saw a couple episodes
1:55:30but how you know I was switching to using e-mail as a way to notify people.
1:55:34Boy am I glad of my doing that after seeing this this article.
1:55:37But
1:55:37but there are like there are really three three technologies that are on the Internet that aren't really controlled by
1:55:45anybody and they are the Web protocol for serving web pages. There's e-mail and there's R.S.S.
1:55:53Which are all these these agreements which allow information to be transmitted back
1:55:56and forth about anybody being in control and. Podcasts are riding on top of that R.S.S. Layer.
1:56:04Even if you do even if the letters R S S mean nothing to you.
1:56:07This is how your podcast arrives and I love that nobody controls R.S.S.
1:56:13and So we don't have to feel like oh boy there's a big company that all the podcast live on and we don't
1:56:19and we have to agree to whatever terms they say because otherwise nobody will get our podcasts.
1:56:23I use square space to host a podcast but I could I could switch tomorrow
1:56:27and you know from people's perspective nothing would change
1:56:30and I think that that is that's one thing that makes the podcast world just feels very different.
1:56:35There are there are companies that are trying to take over the podcast world and I wish them nothing but ill will
1:56:42and bad fortune.
1:56:44That's so anyway but that's a different
1:56:46and I like that so you don't have to you don't have to buy you should buy halogen a T.
1:56:51Shirt just buy a periodic videos T.
1:56:54Shirt and a CD if you're a teacher for support of the You Tube I think that the that's a scary one. Yeah yeah.
1:57:01But they take it to us. Teachers are nice and we can each sign a letter if we ever do a public event again.
1:57:09He signed a letter you know in Alabama if you signed something I would always sign the I advised her that we're not
1:57:17paying attention to that I wasn't really you know I don't remember ever signing ahead of expectation that you had
1:57:22already signed I think I was usually the first person
1:57:25and you know it's because everybody loves Brady That's why they were going over to get the Brady signature no more
1:57:31paper we're just getting you to sign as I'm not bringing it to you but we so we've signed a letter on the T.
1:57:39Shirt which which one DOS on the H.
1:57:41Because I'm paranoid I didn't I didn't really pay much attention to that I think I would actually go for the.