The Incomparable

204: Where Cynicism Meets Optimism

 

  the incomparable number 204 july 2014 [TS]

  welcome back everybody to be comfortable [TS]

  i am your host Jason Snell and we're [TS]

  here it with a little episode that I [TS]

  think it's going to be timely we're [TS]

  releasing this over comic-con weekend [TS]

  and it's about the news news that has [TS]

  happened in practice yesterday or at [TS]

  least in the last couple of weeks which [TS]

  is we're going to talk about recasting [TS]

  comic book characters and when I don't [TS]

  mean recasting characters in comic book [TS]

  movies you know like whoever is playing [TS]

  who is playing daredevil in this TV show [TS]

  it's not Ben Affleck is now he's Batman [TS]

  speaking of recasting and there's [TS]

  different Batman's you do wonder there's [TS]

  probably a chain and Captain America [TS]

  used to be the human torch and that's [TS]

  not what this episode is about this [TS]

  episode is about although we may get [TS]

  there because we will go off the rails [TS]

  and we'll end up there but but I want to [TS]

  state our initial premise that you can [TS]

  see where we go from here [TS]

  our initial premises there was there was [TS]

  news recently about how Marvel Comics is [TS]

  going to change the character of Thor [TS]

  and there's going to be a female Thor [TS]

  and she's not like a another character [TS]

  who is now taking the mantle and it's [TS]

  not like she Thor or something like that [TS]

  she is going to be Thor so the new [TS]

  aspect of Thor is going to be a woman [TS]

  and then we also heard that as announced [TS]

  on the colbert report that Sam Wilson [TS]

  the Falcon who is also by the way the [TS]

  most interesting character I thought in [TS]

  a like the best thing about the the the [TS]

  latest captain america movie which I [TS]

  like a lot but I thought the Falcon was [TS]

  like awesome part of it that the Falcon [TS]

  Sam Wilson is going to be the new [TS]

  captain america and there's been some [TS]

  controversy about this and there's been [TS]

  a lot of chatter because you know comic [TS]

  books people of talking about comic [TS]

  books and getting angry and arguing and [TS]

  all of that and i thought we're not [TS]

  going to get angry as we've said on the [TS]

  show me numerous times we're all friends [TS]

  here we're gonna come we're going to [TS]

  talk with leave his friends come as [TS]

  friendly as friends [TS]

  kindness is Magic all that it's not [TS]

  there's a there's a uncomfortable [TS]

  charter that you haven't read but trust [TS]

  me it's all good things anyway so that's [TS]

  the that's the topic is what i'm saying [TS]

  is we're going to talk about recasting [TS]

  comic books comic book characters and [TS]

  probably a little bit about [TS]

  reasons you choose to make changes to [TS]

  comic book characters in comic cannon [TS]

  and let me having completed my opening [TS]

  remarks ensure he's a vision [TS]

  I'm now going to introduce my fantastic [TS]

  panel Monty Ashley hello hello Jason [TS]

  we didn't recast you I thought about it [TS]

  but let's not keep the original Monty i [TS]

  am the original model you are the [TS]

  original Monty 100-percent Brianna was [TS]

  back for another adventure with the [TS]

  uncomfortable [TS]

  thank you so much for being here what's [TS]

  crackalackin high and we we had a little [TS]

  Twitter conversation that sort of [TS]

  prompted this whole episode we did it [TS]

  was exciting yeah that was excited [TS]

  really interesting it was like where [TS]

  cynicism met optimism was on on Twitter [TS]

  all places who know because that's such [TS]

  a nice description and we really that's [TS]

  what I you I love that you are able to [TS]

  pick the most generous nice cash thanks [TS]

  that's a talent but it was positivity [TS]

  coming from a direction that I didn't [TS]

  expect and negativity coming from a dip [TS]

  it was like everything's topsy-turvy and [TS]

  it was fascinating and I thought this [TS]

  was worth a conversation [TS]

  David laura is also out there hi david [TS]

  haye contractually obligated to be here [TS]

  i'm wearing my officially licensed dan [TS]

  more in Boston Red Sox cap just innately [TS]

  recast and more and as David de laura is [TS]

  now playing the part of the morn that [TS]

  that happened like six months ago nobody [TS]

  really noticed because you know there's [TS]

  something where the same hat it's fine [TS]

  and also out there is an do not co hi [TS]

  Andy [TS]

  I just want to say that if I had known [TS]

  about this earlier i could change the [TS]

  character of Thor in my blade runner [TS]

  Fantastic Four fanfic but i can't it's [TS]

  too late it's already kindled single [TS]

  you're just gonna happen when we get to [TS]

  the sex scene is going to be weird that [TS]

  it's a guy in a woman now but I I could [TS]

  fix it if I would if I could but they're [TS]

  the the pressures of the marketplace [TS]

  have absolutely not the underpinnings of [TS]

  this project out it was it was going to [TS]

  be great but I guess that's a kindle [TS]

  worlds project write fanfic on kindle [TS]

  well within the private vonnegut but [TS]

  featured marvel superhero [TS]

  listen can i pee amazon ten dollars a [TS]

  month and just download as much fanfic [TS]

  as I want because I would totally do [TS]

  that that would be great [TS]

  Jeff Bezos if you're listening yeah come [TS]

  on come on [TS]

  free market date let's get to it said if [TS]

  anybody can make people pay for fanfic [TS]

  it would be Jeff pieces would find a way [TS]

  fanfic prime I'm what have you done so [TS]

  this news came out and issues so that [TS]

  the Twitter conversation diluted to that [TS]

  that Briana and I had with some other [TS]

  people on Twitter Josh centers was in [TS]

  there there's a bunch of people in there [TS]

  and and I was definitely when I read the [TS]

  news i had I two thoughts about the [TS]

  above for recasting and one of them was [TS]

  uh was it's great to see Marvel doing [TS]

  some things about diversity I thought [TS]

  about a conversation we had about the [TS]

  jkb Star Trek movies and how they [TS]

  inherited a cast that although at the [TS]

  time in the sixties was diverse it [TS]

  turned out to not be by our standards [TS]

  today not be particularly to diverse [TS]

  there's one woman there are only two [TS]

  people of color in that on that show and [TS]

  so I thought about before recasting well [TS]

  that you know this is another strong [TS]

  female character than bringing in like [TS]

  this Marvel like Captain Marvel and [TS]

  that's great but i also had my comic [TS]

  book fan boy burn too many times [TS]

  reaction which was this is this is a [TS]

  publicity stunt [TS]

  this is gonna be undone in six months [TS]

  and I felt kind of offended because I [TS]

  felt like you could choose to be like in [TS]

  create new strong female characters or [TS]

  you could do like use it for publicity [TS]

  son and for me that kind of goes to the [TS]

  heart of this is there are there that [TS]

  for me there's a question and and maybe [TS]

  it doesn't really matter in the end I [TS]

  think that's worth discussing [TS]

  but it's uh it is I wonder is marvel [TS]

  being diverse because they truly believe [TS]

  that they need their characters to [TS]

  reflect more accurately reflect the [TS]

  world are or is this a cheap publicity [TS]

  stunt and why can't it be both [TS]

  I suppose it's the other way to view it [TS]

  so Briana you know you and I were given [TS]

  this I your perspective on this was [TS]

  really interesting which you if if i can [TS]

  simplify it down and then [TS]

  love you to expand on it is is you know [TS]

  what it sort of doesn't matter what [TS]

  their motivation is the fact is that [TS]

  girls who pick up a comic book now are [TS]

  going to see Thor as this strong woman [TS]

  and that matters so let me since I'm the [TS]

  only woman on this panel said let me I [TS]

  share our perspective about what it's [TS]

  like to be a female comic book fan I'm [TS]

  so you go to the comic book store and [TS]

  you're overwhelmed with like women in [TS]

  super sexual poses with giant boobs and [TS]

  it's constantly this experience of like [TS]

  where am I represented here where my [TS]

  heroes where people I can relate to and [TS]

  you know if you go down the list of [TS]

  movies just in the last few years I'm [TS]

  just going to list some of them Batman [TS]

  Superman the punisher captain america [TS]

  judge dredd daredevil Hulk ghostrider [TS]

  Iron Man Wolverine Green Lantern [TS]

  spider-man Thor you know it's there's no [TS]

  shortage of movies and comic books [TS]

  featuring white straight men as the [TS]

  protagonist so I just I'm done really [TS]

  really excited to see a character that I [TS]

  always thought was so boring and just [TS]

  have to know your enemy of [TS]

  hyper-masculine eyes like just blandness [TS]

  I mean I think like the actor playing [TS]

  Thor is very cute but the character I [TS]

  just I don't relate or care about him [TS]

  even remotely and I just thought this [TS]

  was such a really cool twist on a [TS]

  character I just had no affinity for and [TS]

  you're turning door into this powerful [TS]

  strong woman like wearing armor and [TS]

  carrying a big giant hammer if that's [TS]

  awesome i mean this is completely [TS]

  awesome [TS]

  yeah it's a you also i should say you [TS]

  know how boring Thor can be is that they [TS]

  have to give him a special font to the [TS]

  fact that i learned about different [TS]

  typefaces is what the store talk with a [TS]

  funny font that's weird [TS]

  and now you're trashing Sandman what's [TS]

  going on oh I'm sorry I love Sophie look [TS]

  let's not trash Walt Simonson running [TS]

  for that I think is one of the greatest [TS]

  runs i do love it [TS]

  I do love it and that thats the beta ray [TS]

  bill picked up the hammer right that [TS]

  might have been the last truly epic and [TS]

  really exciting run on forever i will [TS]

  outlaw for that but a kit you can be [TS]

  interesting I just I just needed to [TS]

  defend Walt Simonson is run by the [TS]

  scripting and his artwork incredible I i [TS]

  guess it's like I couldn't help but you [TS]

  know I've heard so many people saying [TS]

  you know it's a publicity stunt it's a [TS]

  publicity stunt and you don't get me [TS]

  wrong i was burned by Superman coming [TS]

  back to life to you know like i know i [TS]

  know where that cynicism comes from but [TS]

  I think you can look at the Marvel [TS]

  leadership scom ents on this issue and I [TS]

  think you can look at what their pattern [TS]

  of behavior has been in the last four [TS]

  years in it it really does seem like a [TS]

  genuine honest truthful commitment to [TS]

  the filling this in this marketplace [TS]

  need for diversity [TS]

  I mean diversity is something the market [TS]

  is demanding like they're feeling you [TS]

  know they're they're fulfilling the [TS]

  consumer need and it just I I don't [TS]

  understand where the cynicism is coming [TS]

  down I feel like the traditional wisdom [TS]

  is that the comic books have to stay as [TS]

  close as possible to the movies so you [TS]

  expect Thor to start looking more and [TS]

  more like Chris Hemsworth when for them [TS]

  to literally not do that but right in [TS]

  the middle of Thor's biggest mainstream [TS]

  success ever make it change like this I [TS]

  think is actually pretty daring of them [TS]

  and not just if it's a publicity stunt [TS]

  it's not a cheap one is I guess my [TS]

  position I think that's a good point [TS]

  although i will point out that the thor [TS]

  movie just came out and i'm reminded and [TS]

  of amazing spider-man 700 when it came [TS]

  out where they killed Peter Parker and [TS]

  they put dr. octopus in charge of [TS]

  spider-man's body and they said well [TS]

  superior spider-man now that's going to [TS]

  be the new thing and everybody at the [TS]

  time cynically said well until amazing [TS]

  spider-man 2 comes out and i'm not [TS]

  kidding they returned Peter Parker to [TS]

  his own body the month the amazing [TS]

  spider-man 2 cats are you feeling that [TS]

  that's it and and and that's not [TS]

  necessarily a bad thing [TS]

  I mean where we of course we had a [TS]

  really brought up the death of superman [TS]

  i think that even at the time [TS]

  DC was like look we acknowledge this is [TS]

  just a comic book we're not going to [TS]

  never ever again publish comments with [TS]

  this one of the single most popular [TS]

  fictional characters in the history of [TS]

  fictional characters but we want to [TS]

  spend the next year or two [TS]

  exploring what the DC universe would be [TS]

  like where Jesus Christ has been killed [TS]

  in front of everybody and he did not [TS]

  come back to life three days later so i [TS]

  think these can be interesting stories I [TS]

  don't say that I'm I'm cynical more like [TS]

  I'm just weary its looks it's this has [TS]

  got to be the fourth time in about a [TS]

  year-and-a-half we're not only has [TS]

  Marvel done they were putting a [TS]

  different person in the costume and open [TS]

  this is for real this is not just a [TS]

  quick stunt not but not only has that [TS]

  not only has that happened four times [TS]

  now but it's it's just that they've made [TS]

  a very very big deal in all media about [TS]

  how what an incredible groundbreaking [TS]

  thing whereas they turned Thor into a [TS]

  frog tutoring wondering Simonson's from [TS]

  during time since run and all that [TS]

  happened was that the last panel of a [TS]

  very extended battle scene between him [TS]

  and Loki he's turned into a frog because [TS]

  it sits at part part part part so part [TS]

  of it for me isn't that I i think they [TS]

  could have a good time exploring all of [TS]

  these are stories where the Falcons now [TS]

  have to a an african-american man has to [TS]

  assume the role of the app iconic [TS]

  patriotic super super soldier and [TS]

  there's going to be a female role in one [TS]

  of the most dead Bush manly he manly [TS]

  swaggering Lee manly swing a hammer and [TS]

  make everybody look at it [TS]

  comic but now that they're still it's [TS]

  there it's it's the fact that they have [TS]

  to bring this up aren't we wonderful and [TS]

  are we not afraid to kick over and Tails [TS]

  it's like no you're do you realize that [TS]

  you can get a spot on The Colbert Report [TS]

  and on the view with this news and you [TS]

  can get a lot of publicity for this news [TS]

  and let's just acknowledge that this is [TS]

  something you do because you need to get [TS]

  that kind of exposure in that kind of [TS]

  coverage is product is so cynical that's [TS]

  not cynical it'sit's separate know its [TS]

  separate for its they're two different [TS]

  reactions i think that there's the [TS]

  reaction to the actual comic itself [TS]

  which has to wait until these comics [TS]

  were published [TS]

  and then there's the no I'm serious but [TS]

  the other thing is that now that you're [TS]

  this is being announced and we have two [TS]

  months to think about it does this make [TS]

  me excited about buying this comic and [TS]

  given that there are any given month [TS]

  about 20-30 really good comics and vying [TS]

  for that four dollars it's like okay [TS]

  you're not showing me anything that I [TS]

  haven't seen in a couple years so it's [TS]

  not about you it's about the legions is [TS]

  friend and I really want for my for my [TS]

  i'm talking about my four dollars it is [TS]

  all about me for this four dollars that [TS]

  i can spend her i cannot spend it is [TS]

  completely about me if I'm not excited [TS]

  about it that's fine i'm not saying that [TS]

  no one else should be excited about it [TS]

  I'm saying that this does not make me [TS]

  eagerly anticipate this new comic but [TS]

  not like enough lead the way that the [TS]

  numerous Marvel did which I said wow [TS]

  this writer with this topic I've got [TS]

  four dollars set aside for that [TS]

  so again I'm not decrying anybody else [TS]

  is interested in this I'm not even [TS]

  saying this is not important for the [TS]

  larger thing general that more people [TS]

  get represented I'm saying that for four [TS]

  dollars in my pocket to be moving from [TS]

  my pocket to Marvel's bankbook this does [TS]

  not get me that excited about it there [TS]

  there's no shortage of heroes out there [TS]

  for you and the thing is if your geek [TS]

  girl there is a real real lack of women [TS]

  that are in this role and I know so many [TS]

  women that are super hyped up about [TS]

  buying Thor for the first time in our [TS]

  entire life i mean i've read of faith or [TS]

  comic books but when I say it's not [TS]

  about you it's not saying that like [TS]

  you're you're not entitled to feel [TS]

  thrilled about this comic book but i'm [TS]

  saying this this whole move is not [TS]

  towards you it's it's actually aimed [TS]

  more towards people like me it's aimed [TS]

  towards the Legion of women out there [TS]

  that do like comic books but don't find [TS]

  herself represented so I would I would [TS]

  respectfully say that ultimately this is [TS]

  not really something that it's it's it's [TS]

  just you're not the focus here [TS]

  does that make sense to you yes but I [TS]

  again I want to make sure that when i'm [TS]

  saying is clear as possible that i did [TS]

  not make myself clear [TS]

  I'm saying I'm saying that [TS]

  a given that i see this idea so many [TS]

  times this is not a standout idea to me [TS]

  and soon enough and so I can state with [TS]

  absolute authority that this is not the [TS]

  sort of thing that gets me excited about [TS]

  buying the next Captain America buying [TS]

  the new captain america books buying the [TS]

  new Thor books and these are two books [TS]

  that have not bought in the past this is [TS]

  this is completely separate has [TS]

  absolutely no relevance to is this a [TS]

  good idea is this a good thing and two [TS]

  other people have shit should they be [TS]

  genuinely interested in this because [TS]

  everybody's gonna make their own [TS]

  decisions and have their own reaction to [TS]

  this i'm saying what all i want to sort [TS]

  of respond to is the idea that this is a [TS]

  cynical response it isn't because I'm [TS]

  someone who's participating in the [TS]

  marketplace [TS]

  I have been served the cooked steamed [TS]

  broccoli many times I have never been [TS]

  excited about steam cook broccoli I've [TS]

  tried steam cook broccoli many times and [TS]

  never enjoyed it [TS]

  this will affect whether you're going to [TS]

  excite me about saying over two months [TS]

  we're gonna be serving you just cook [TS]

  steamed broccoli i might not show up for [TS]

  that dinner but that still does not it [TS]

  that does not impute broccoli as a dish [TS]

  I'm just saying that you know your sort [TS]

  of saying you this is a marvel this is a [TS]

  marvel story story decision with big [TS]

  publicity like for example the death of [TS]

  the human torch and that doesn't [TS]

  necessarily lead toward good [TS]

  storytelling not necessarily as opposed [TS]

  to something like well with his Marvel [TS]

  announcement which was a lot lower key [TS]

  and as a sort of new storyline and is i [TS]

  mean i'm reading that too and I think [TS]

  that's fantastic i'm just interested in [TS]

  that in that and that difference there [TS]

  that it seems to me like you're weary of [TS]

  the of these big events being promised [TS]

  and not actually leading to stories that [TS]

  you are interested in reading or that [TS]

  you final worth know that that's not a [TS]

  again they're there to that the problem [TS]

  is that it was it was great when about [TS]

  10-15 years ago when Kompany's felt as [TS]

  though [TS]

  well we're not if we're not ever going [TS]

  to get the front page New York Times [TS]

  you're not ever going to be a story on a [TS]

  news program that gets five or six [TS]

  million people it is we're already we're [TS]

  always going to be sort of marketing [TS]

  these towards our fans people who are [TS]

  aware of it and maybe friends of those [TS]

  fans now that it's that that meant that [TS]

  if I were already an ongoing reader of [TS]

  Thor [TS]

  i would i would get to the end of it [TS]

  gets the end of an issue and without any [TS]

  knowledge this is coming whatsoever [TS]

  see that oh well now that we're now that [TS]

  we've got this new person in the role of [TS]

  Thor this new person the role of Captain [TS]

  America and if right now though we have [TS]

  to promote this two months in advance [TS]

  for three months in advance we have two [TS]

  months in which i'm thinking does this [TS]

  get me again does this get me circling a [TS]

  date in my calendar that this is when [TS]

  the new Thor comes out i really want to [TS]

  check that out that does not get me [TS]

  excited about it but the the key thing [TS]

  is that's totally separate from how good [TS]

  these stories are going to be I'm not [TS]

  gonna make I don't think anybody can [TS]

  make any assumptions about it even if [TS]

  there are no matter how if anybody's [TS]

  disappointed with these decisions you [TS]

  have no idea how good this is going to [TS]

  be right I was wrong my eyes at the [TS]

  death of Spiderman but that was such a [TS]

  wonderful exploration onto the basis of [TS]

  the of hero hood and what drives people [TS]

  to make the decisions that they make so [TS]

  what might happen in a few months is [TS]

  that again I will not be lined up to [TS]

  ghosts by this new Thor but once i hear [TS]

  other people talking about if they [TS]

  described it in ways that really make an [TS]

  interesting maybe we'll go and buy it [TS]

  that's why i'm saying is a total brick [TS]

  wall between an announcement that gets [TS]

  you excited two months in advance about [TS]

  buying this issue and how good this is [TS]

  going to be when it actually comes out [TS]

  so that's that might make that make [TS]

  change that decision I I hear what [TS]

  you're saying I I i would suggest that I [TS]

  think that you might not be super aware [TS]

  that the degree to which the [TS]

  conversation about comics tends to be [TS]

  led and dominated by you know white [TS]

  straight men like that is kind of the [TS]

  comics culture and like you're saying [TS]

  this story may be good the story may be [TS]

  good [TS]

  um what I would suggest to you is that [TS]

  there are different measuring sticks out [TS]

  there for is this story good i would [TS]

  suggest you that they're different [TS]

  measuring sticks for does this get me [TS]

  excited and what I would suggest to you [TS]

  is I think that Marvel is looking as a [TS]

  business at the current makeup of [TS]

  America [TS]

  the people that read comics i know so [TS]

  many you know african-american friends [TS]

  of mine they're very passionate about [TS]

  comics i know so many women they're [TS]

  passionate about comics and I think what [TS]

  is happening is the industry is shifting [TS]

  and it's growing the same way you see [TS]

  video games growing right now and it is [TS]

  addressing this need for diversity so [TS]

  what I would suggest to you is if by [TS]

  your measuring stick some of these moves [TS]

  don't get you excited or they don't [TS]

  appeal to you personally I i would [TS]

  suggest that it's for different people [TS]

  that like I completely agree with that [TS]

  cool [TS]

  so here's what i see is one of the [TS]

  problems here and I i mentioned this [TS]

  with with Star Trek which is well I [TS]

  wonder core problems is the company like [TS]

  Marvel or NGC is in the same boat is it [TS]

  they are an intellectual property [TS]

  holding company and these days they make [TS]

  so much of their money so much of the [TS]

  money and the value in these in these [TS]

  companies is in the film business where [TS]

  they've got these huge film franchise [TS]

  and marvelous got a huge film franchise [TS]

  DC's got the great run amok of Batman [TS]

  movies that they made and is trying to [TS]

  now create something a little more like [TS]

  what Marvel has done a huge value there [TS]

  we also live in a world where some of [TS]

  the greatest comic book creative people [TS]

  have realized that they would rather if [TS]

  you're going to come up with some great [TS]

  new intellectual property which is sadly [TS]

  how a lot of stuff is viewed it's not a [TS]

  great story it's great intellectual [TS]

  property you they want to make the great [TS]

  creators want to make that and owned it [TS]

  themselves and so there is a lack of [TS]

  great new characters and great new not [TS]

  straight lines to create new characters [TS]

  going into Marvel and DC because a lot [TS]

  of that stuff is being done [TS]

  independently so there's this challenge [TS]

  with like I said with Star Trek I see it [TS]

  even more so in Marvel and DC where the [TS]

  cast that they've inherited their [TS]

  intellectual property is largely male [TS]

  and largely white because these are the [TS]

  characters that were created you know 50 [TS]

  60 40 years ago and I i think when you [TS]

  look at Sam Wilson being captain america [TS]

  and a woman being the wielding the [TS]

  hammer of Thor what strikes me about [TS]

  that as opposed [TS]

  this is something like putting Carol [TS]

  Danvers is Captain Marvel and and having [TS]

  a new ms marvel is those seem to be [TS]

  almost like recasting and that's why I [TS]

  mentioned I've been calling the [TS]

  recasting the idea of you know our our [TS]

  intellectual property base isn't diverse [TS]

  enough and we can't really think it's [TS]

  hard for us to create new characters so [TS]

  what we're gonna do is mix around with [TS]

  the characters we've gotta it feels to [TS]

  me like that's what's happening here is [TS]

  that is that you know they would they [TS]

  want to play with your intellectual [TS]

  property and so while people get up in [TS]

  arms about it's not the thor I know it's [TS]

  not the cap I knew I feel like on one [TS]

  level this is marvel [TS]

  I mean it's bold of Marvel to say we're [TS]

  gonna do this to our arc or intellectual [TS]

  property but at the same time it's also [TS]

  like this is what we've got to play with [TS]

  we need to diversify our mainline not [TS]

  just add these characters on the edges [TS]

  that nobody's ever heard of [TS]

  well even even there I mean there are [TS]

  certain characters that are always going [TS]

  to be those characters Clark Kent will [TS]

  always be Superman Bruce Wayne has [TS]

  basically always been Batman but then [TS]

  you have like how many Green Lanterns [TS]

  have been how many flashes have there [TS]

  been no official for official flashes [TS]

  plus some goofy future flashes right and [TS]

  you know and and those are characters [TS]

  that don't have the same kind of iconic [TS]

  presence for people they know who the [TS]

  Green Lantern maybe but they don't know [TS]

  a name they don't attach a name to that [TS]

  and so you you might have your house [TS]

  Jordan fans you might have you may have [TS]

  Kyle raider fans and you may have jon [TS]

  stewart fans and at least you know [TS]

  there's a little bit of diversity and in [TS]

  DC right there Joe and so I kind of see [TS]

  this is not that far from that [TS]

  well I an idea that is very much like [TS]

  the flash such flashing green lantern [TS]

  situation [TS]

  yeah which pretty much introduced the [TS]

  Silver Age when they said we have these [TS]

  characters we haven't used in forever [TS]

  let's just keep the basic concept of the [TS]

  hero introduced a whole new guy a whole [TS]

  new origin story and I feel like they're [TS]

  just doing that now [TS]

  although because it's 2014 they're [TS]

  allowing themselves to be a [TS]

  little more original then here's a whole [TS]

  new white guy that yeah yeah I think I [TS]

  think that's a good point it's a it's [TS]

  and I think the difference is that we in [TS]

  the seventies what we saw was people [TS]

  said hey you don't have a lot of you [TS]

  have a lot of black superheroes and [TS]

  they're like well okay we use the Black [TS]

  Panther okay then here's what Adam [TS]

  here's the Falcon and here's the beers [TS]

  beers beers black lightning and it's [TS]

  like yeah oh okay [TS]

  it's something it's something right its [TS]

  end and again i can make fun of it but [TS]

  at the same time that was a legitimate [TS]

  attempt to create diversity in a place [TS]

  where there was none right but what also [TS]

  happened in the seventies with the the [TS]

  rise of the feminist movement was this [TS]

  creation of of I don't know how to [TS]

  phrase it like alternate female [TS]

  counterpart heroes so the whole heart [TS]

  but we made she-hulk and-and-and-and-and [TS]

  you got that a lot where it was like [TS]

  well it's not it's not that that Thor is [TS]

  different but now there's a lady thore [TS]

  over here on the side right and one of [TS]

  the things about that was interesting [TS]

  but marvels announcement about there was [TS]

  this is not so [TS]

  laurita this is not lady for this is [TS]

  Thor and that says something to that [TS]

  we're not just creating like a girl [TS]

  counterpart to important character the [TS]

  important characters a woman and that is [TS]

  part of the story and that's that is [TS]

  that's a step up i think that's really [TS]

  interesting [TS]

  yeah i agree with on if this might be [TS]

  that this is a this is a semantic issue [TS]

  the the really terrible nerd part of my [TS]

  brain said but wait it's so you're not [TS]

  making her the god the goddess of [TS]

  thunder you're making her Thor that's [TS]

  like saying you're not making this woman [TS]

  president you're making her Barack Obama [TS]

  i don't understand that [TS]

  yeah I had I i think right now see the [TS]

  story because i had made job major nerd [TS]

  nerd moment there too because I was like [TS]

  what do you mean beta ray bill was an [TS]

  alien who got the hammer and and it'll [TS]

  be interesting to see how they tell the [TS]

  story but I you know I I I don't doubt [TS]

  that there is a great desire at Marvel [TS]

  and I I mean Brandon you mentioned i [TS]

  think that i think is a business aspect [TS]

  of this to which is like this is not [TS]

  just we want to be nice [TS]

  marvel's owned by disney this is there's [TS]

  a huge amount of investment in this [TS]

  intellectual property [TS]

  this is also about we we need to move [TS]

  with [TS]

  at times and how do we do that and get [TS]

  some publicity along the way but how do [TS]

  we diversify this line in the new [TS]

  Fantastic Four movie the human torch is [TS]

  going to be played by the Michael B [TS]

  Jordan is the name of the actor get the [TS]

  kid from chronically at the kids from [TS]

  the wire and and chronicle and friday [TS]

  night lights and so that's a black kid [TS]

  is gonna be playing the human torch and [TS]

  that's an all-white cast and now it's [TS]

  not and I think I think he's great and [TS]

  so I'm really looking forward to that [TS]

  so this is happening all over I I think [TS]

  like you can look at Maleficent which by [TS]

  all you know [TS]

  by all reports was not a well removed [TS]

  reviewed movie get it did very very well [TS]

  at the box office and I know so many [TS]

  women that want to go see a movie like [TS]

  you know with injury Anjali featured and [TS]

  you know so we geek women have money to [TS]

  spend and i think it's it's addressing [TS]

  the market need I want to come back to [TS]

  something you said actually on Twitter [TS]

  Jason where you're talking about how the [TS]

  X universe kind of tended to do better [TS]

  on this issue [TS]

  um but if you look at the last x-men [TS]

  movie I was so phenomenally disappointed [TS]

  with it because who were the main [TS]

  characters it was a ton of white guys [TS]

  I'm you have Quicksilver magneto Xavier [TS]

  having another love story together you [TS]

  know we'll bring him like i am you know [TS]

  yes mystique is kind of part of it but [TS]

  she wasn't really as much of a main [TS]

  character say Wolverine and it just [TS]

  seems to me that even in a movie or even [TS]

  a universe with that is diverse as the [TS]

  x-men like here you have again for women [TS]

  or fifty percent of the planet you know [TS]

  and there's any number of really awesome [TS]

  amazing female amazing characters in [TS]

  that universe it's the forces of [TS]

  Hollywood or whatever just kind of kill [TS]

  that diversity also Cyclops is [TS]

  definitively like the most boring [TS]

  character on the show it anytime you use [TS]

  Cyclops right I accuse you and and in [TS]

  the story that they based the movie on [TS]

  that inspired the movie so amazingly [TS]

  right back in time can be probably the [TS]

  main character that's [TS]

  how did she get that betrayed and I [TS]

  don't really talk about it's in the [TS]

  future it's all explained later again [TS]

  that's one of those kinda kind of things [TS]

  this mutant things like so much about [TS]

  the future seems they've established [TS]

  portal girl really well and even though [TS]

  she had maybe one line of dialogue she's [TS]

  super fun and a personality and want to [TS]

  know her more about her but yeah kitty [TS]

  was great guys this year though [TS]

  well I mean they were like what we could [TS]

  make it Wolverine because everybody [TS]

  loves Wolverine and who cares about [TS]

  native pride you know back in 1985 there [TS]

  would have been strong arguments about [TS]

  kitty pryde vs wolverine let me tell you [TS]

  i get there their rationale that well we [TS]

  want to tie the movie existences [TS]

  together and so she the age wouldn't [TS]

  work at all but you know there are other [TS]

  women fine rhymes another week at [TS]

  doesn't have to be Hugh Jackman this is [TS]

  all because I screwed up in the first [TS]

  movie and took Kitty Pryde's personality [TS]

  and put it in Rouen Road yeah yeah yeah [TS]

  yeah [TS]

  after a brief break for our sponsor now [TS]

  in this episode you've been listening to [TS]

  one of my panelists Brianna Wu whose new [TS]

  game from her company giant space cat is [TS]

  coming out this week it's called [TS]

  revolution 60 and it seems appropriate [TS]

  that perhaps it's time for her and her [TS]

  company to be uncomfortable sponsor [TS]

  look up look down look out [TS]

  Lieutenant Commander holiday has [TS]

  returned in revolution 60 in the future [TS]

  a team of deadly female secret agents [TS]

  must rendezvous with n 313 an orbital [TS]

  weapons platform adrift over China if [TS]

  they fail their mission [TS]

  it will be an all-out nuclear war [TS]

  evolution 60 danger sign for the world's [TS]

  most deadly secret agent who will you [TS]

  trust and he will kill [TS]

  no one can stop the action no one can [TS]

  stop the danger [TS]

  no one can stop revolution 60 [TS]

  available now on iOS and thanks to giant [TS]

  space cat for sponsoring the [TS]

  uncomfortable I i want to mention [TS]

  another recasting that that is not quite [TS]

  the same but when and when they [TS]

  announced that they were going to kill [TS]

  Peter Parker in ultimate spider-man that [TS]

  which is which is really my favorite [TS]

  comic of the last 15 years i think his [TS]

  ultimate spider-man i was i was upset [TS]

  because again there's that event fatigue [TS]

  thing and and this is what I keep trying [TS]

  two separate here is there's my vent [TS]

  fatigue of your gonna do something [TS]

  called death of Spiderman is going to be [TS]

  a cheat or are you gonna kill Peter [TS]

  Parker and why would you kill Peter [TS]

  Parker he's been your protagonist 420 [TS]

  issues and it's very sad at but you know [TS]

  what what happened is they had an idea [TS]

  for a great story and they were already [TS]

  telling Peter Parker story in two [TS]

  different places for a great story about [TS]

  a new kid with a slightly different [TS]

  history but who would have liked Peter [TS]

  Parker this power thrust upon him with [TS]

  one twist which is that now he has Peter [TS]

  Parker to live up to and that's Miles [TS]

  Morales whose dad is black and moms [TS]

  Puerto Rican and so not only injecting [TS]

  amazing diversity into the spider-man [TS]

  costume which had been sacrosanct [TS]

  essentially the peter parker was [TS]

  spider-man there was no like other Green [TS]

  Lantern the flash or anything right it [TS]

  was Peter Parker experiment letting [TS]

  forgot about the Clone Saga well but [TS]

  that's all Peter Parker to all right [TS]

  there are sins all right but this is [TS]

  just like your another kid got bit by a [TS]

  spider and that's miles morales and you [TS]

  know what that's a great [TS]

  those are great stories that spun out of [TS]

  there in hindsight looking at that and [TS]

  that's a great character to the point [TS]

  where now when they killed the Peter [TS]

  Parker off temporarily in the main [TS]

  Marvel line i just kind of drug because [TS]

  it's like and it's finally miles is good [TS]

  because we got plenty more where that [TS]

  came from yeah but that was that's an [TS]

  example where where are you know there's [TS]

  there's i don't i don't think now any [TS]

  differently about the fact that you know [TS]

  this fantastic spider-man is an [TS]

  african-american Puerto Rican kid in New [TS]

  York City I think that's perfectly [TS]

  reasonable and then there's that other [TS]

  thought which is what about all the [TS]

  african-american kids and the porter he [TS]

  could kids who read comics who now see [TS]

  some [TS]

  but he was kinda like them in miles [TS]

  that's amazing too [TS]

  I think there's a need to like shake up [TS]

  the Marvel Universe to a certain extent [TS]

  to my read recently how they're killing [TS]

  Wolverine and it kind of it kind of [TS]

  stunt me for a minute [TS]

  you know like wolverine someone that [TS]

  probably makes a lot of money for Marvel [TS]

  or you know they recently killed [TS]

  professor xavier again but I night I get [TS]

  ya if you get the feeling this time it's [TS]

  more permanent um as permanent as again [TS]

  communist government always recycle some [TS]

  takeout right yeah but like literally [TS]

  like with Superman the idea that we're [TS]

  gonna go we're gonna tell a story that [TS]

  and Paul Cornell has been reading a lot [TS]

  of that arc so it's been known to eat [TS]

  two years in the making it's like [TS]

  killing will rain is telling an [TS]

  interesting story about wolverine and [TS]

  then and then having them you know the [TS]

  guts to to do that to really profitable [TS]

  character right even-tempered like [TS]

  remember when they killed Eugene gray [TS]

  and I didn't think they're really going [TS]

  to leave her dead and they did and you [TS]

  know watching Cyclops fall in love with [TS]

  Emma Frost has been a really cool [TS]

  interesting storyline i don't know if [TS]

  you guys read all new x-men but i love [TS]

  it it's currently my favorite let's Bend [TS]

  this again it's nothing yet why it [TS]

  yeah yeah um I just think that shaking [TS]

  up the universe it in a longer way like [TS]

  with new characters are putting a new [TS]

  twist on it I think it gives I think [TS]

  it's painful when it happens but i think [TS]

  it gives long-term vitality to the [TS]

  universe I think that's the healthiest [TS]

  way to view comic books too because [TS]

  there's the strict comic-book [TS]

  constructionist guy right [TS]

  uh-uh which is like well you know the [TS]

  continuity says that this is not a right [TS]

  there's that argument which is the comic [TS]

  book I argument but uh and I've made [TS]

  that and felt that and I totally get [TS]

  that like but no you said in this other [TS]

  issue when they were footnotes and [TS]

  that's what it's like [TS]

  right but but the other way to view it [TS]

  is is exactly this which is it's a [TS]

  playground the continuity is always [TS]

  shifting and if you can tell I and I [TS]

  know I've said this to you before if you [TS]

  can tell a good story i kinda don't care [TS]

  about the rest of it i don't i kinda [TS]

  don't care what you do if the stories [TS]

  are good and then what we've been [TS]

  talking about today it also allows you [TS]

  to tell stories that are a little bit [TS]

  different because your cast is not just [TS]

  a bunch of white guys then [TS]

  and that's good too and in the end [TS]

  that's that's what matters so I love it [TS]

  even though we all know Wolverine is not [TS]

  going to stay dead like Superman didn't [TS]

  stay dead like Peter Parker didn't stay [TS]

  dead in their defense not ultimate Peter [TS]

  Parker stay dead for over a year [TS]

  yes which was way longer than what the [TS]

  fuck instead and this is my long-winded [TS]

  point which is which is we can roll her [TS]

  eyes and say of course they're not going [TS]

  to stay dead but being dead for a year [TS]

  being dead for two years in comic-book [TS]

  terms and telling stories for a couple [TS]

  years like Superman what's the world [TS]

  like without Superman that doesn't make [TS]

  that any less valid just because we know [TS]

  they're going to eventually come back [TS]

  because the point is can you tell [TS]

  interesting stories while they're gone [TS]

  right i mean the only x-men thing we're [TS]

  bringing the old x-men to the present [TS]

  day you know at some point they'll end [TS]

  that up but it's it's a i'm enjoying [TS]

  those stories because it's called a [TS]

  crazy idea and it's fascinating to see [TS]

  those characters playing in the current [TS]

  set of characters that's that's cool [TS]

  right right [TS]

  it's also important to note that would [TS]

  be if you could if you pinpoint whatever [TS]

  year it was you started reading comics [TS]

  and then pinpoint the year after that [TS]

  you decided that continuity is being [TS]

  messed up they don't appreciate [TS]

  continuity ok we'll find let's roll back [TS]

  to 1996-97 when you fell in love with a [TS]

  fantastic for what if we realize that [TS]

  while the things you love about the [TS]

  Fantastic Four 1987 happen because they [TS]

  ignored lots of stuff that happened in [TS]

  the seventies they decided well let's [TS]

  pretend that Franklin Richards does not [TS]

  have these powers so it's so you have to [TS]

  have to if you you have to accept that a [TS]

  lot of what you love about these [TS]

  comments comes because of that ignorance [TS]

  the only thing that I would defend some [TS]

  part of the family argument though is [TS]

  that it's disappointing when DC and [TS]

  Marvel will make these Titanic they [TS]

  think they pride themselves all we don't [TS]

  we don't we like to kick over and hills [TS]

  the problem is that eventually you wind [TS]

  up with a flat landscape that's very [TS]

  very boring i was i was disappointed [TS]

  like with civil civil war that we're [TS]

  making this huge huge sweeping changes [TS]

  in our head next year we're having a [TS]

  huge alien invasion everybody realizes [TS]

  that ever aliens invaded 20 years ago [TS]

  and they already took over a year later [TS]

  nobody's commenting about that nobody [TS]

  cares what i would love to I would [TS]

  really love to see that kind of like [TS]

  comic books [TS]

  universe no I'm saying for that no I'm [TS]

  saying they they they are there they're [TS]

  not swinging at the pitch [TS]

  what if they simply said that yes look [TS]

  every person on this planet realizes [TS]

  that alien successfully invaded this [TS]

  planet and only by the skin of our teeth [TS]

  that we managed to get them to go back [TS]

  where they came from and got our planet [TS]

  back five years after that every story [TS]

  has to be colored through a populist [TS]

  that is now terrified of another alien [TS]

  invasion and now has a totally different [TS]

  idea of us versus them instead it's like [TS]

  okay whatever boy remember the time last [TS]

  summer when everybody in New York was a [TS]

  spider [TS]

  wow what was that about anyway about her [TS]

  dad for like AI thought I feel like this [TS]

  is something I've learned to live with [TS]

  Gannicus like I remember being 15 and [TS]

  reading was at the executioner song with [TS]

  x-men and like going out to my comic [TS]

  book store every week trying to hunt [TS]

  down every issue of it and ultimately [TS]

  coming to the conclusion wasn't really [TS]

  going to have changes and I i guess i'm [TS]

  always speaking for me here but the the [TS]

  piece I've made with it is you have [TS]

  someone that's just trying to tell a [TS]

  good story and maybe like I know I just [TS]

  try to appreciate the arc of the story [TS]

  line on its own merits and I I don't [TS]

  need to shake up the the universe every [TS]

  time it's especially as an adult where I [TS]

  tend to get by graphic novels and just [TS]

  read chunks of a story at once rather [TS]

  than that [TS]

  getting into the entire whole you know [TS]

  the only thing that gives me pause about [TS]

  this right now is all of the oh we're [TS]

  we're really going to do it and we're [TS]

  really going to keep it and we're not [TS]

  going to change at this time and and [TS]

  we're gonna we're going to make Thor [TS]

  woman and that's that and it's sort of [TS]

  like me think the editor does protest [TS]

  too much [TS]

  you know it's like we know stuffs gonna [TS]

  change and you're going to change it [TS]

  back you're gonna do something different [TS]

  justjust say look we're doing this thing [TS]

  see what happens yeah it might be a good [TS]

  story we hope it's good story we think [TS]

  it's good and you know give it a chance [TS]

  and and if it works you know then maybe [TS]

  they keep it [TS]

  maybe they do more with it there's some [TS]

  Comic Book cultural baggage which goes [TS]

  back to I add my memory of DC how they [TS]

  would always say [TS]

  they would have their stories that [TS]

  didn't fit in continuity and they would [TS]

  say this is an imaginary story and the [TS]

  guys all of their stories are imagine [TS]

  don't take it so seriously that's [TS]

  something i love DC vs marvel because it [TS]

  seemed as though DC have this attitude [TS]

  of look where we under we know that you [TS]

  know this is just a comic book if we [TS]

  came up with its own pictures a really [TS]

  great idea of Batman during Victorian [TS]

  times that a fighting Dracula we decided [TS]

  wow that's such a good story we really [TS]

  have to publish this and we understand [TS]

  you're not going to try to stick us to [TS]

  where did Batman how did Batman get into [TS]

  Victorian times that's great the the [TS]

  explanation look it's just a comic book [TS]

  we can screw around as much as we want [TS]

  I think it's something that it's not [TS]

  used enough well-marbled did that to [TS]

  that was the whole what if series [TS]

  yeah I just met with ran out of ideas [TS]

  except except every last page maybe the [TS]

  earth blew up and I don't watch it but [TS]

  yeah good things didn't happen like that [TS]

  huh KITT so the imaginary story thing [TS]

  what got me about it is that what they [TS]

  were suggesting is that then there was [TS]

  the real stories which were the DC [TS]

  continuity is like guys it's all [TS]

  imaginary it and all the white again I [TS]

  understand the comic book fans tendency [TS]

  to be like I want to catalog and I want [TS]

  to look at the continuity but this [TS]

  happened back then there is that maybe [TS]

  it's at as I've gotten older and have a [TS]

  lot of comics and I kind of like my care [TS]

  more about the stories and and i love [TS]

  the continuity and all but I just don't [TS]

  I don't I don't sweat it and I i think [TS]

  that I think that helps it isn't that an [TS]

  alan moore line from one of his [TS]

  Superman's I think whatever happened to [TS]

  the man of tomorrow [TS]

  that's an imaginary story money you all [TS]

  know i think that one starts off with a [TS]

  caption saying this is an imaginary yeah [TS]

  we realized that was all that was in [TS]

  that we aren't they all right [TS]

  yeah exactly i want to mention a couple [TS]

  we talk about diversity and comics and [TS]

  recasting characters and you mentioned [TS]

  like the flashes in the Green Lantern's [TS]

  I'm i want to mention too that are [TS]

  particular favorite of mine or wanted [TS]

  that one that's a favorite one that I'm [TS]

  intrigued by DC made a new Blue Beetle a [TS]

  few years ago and i like that for a few [TS]

  reasons i like it because it's [TS]

  geographically diverse it was sent in [TS]

  san antonio texas [TS]

  oh yeah i was at grandmas and the blue [TS]

  beetle is high mayre s so hispanic [TS]

  american teenager in San Antonio who [TS]

  gets this suit and doesn't know what to [TS]

  do with it [TS]

  it's got all the things i love about [TS]

  something like ultimate spider-man it's [TS]

  a kid who gets way too much power and [TS]

  has to learn how to use it with a little [TS]

  greatest american hero thrown in like I [TS]

  don't have the big worry did get they [TS]

  didn't go to the instructions exactly so [TS]

  that that's one that's a good example [TS]

  and that's the case of DC taking some [TS]

  dormant intellectual property and [TS]

  spinning out a new character a new story [TS]

  that is not a white man in New York City [TS]

  and then i want to mention Marvel what [TS]

  Marvel's doing with ghost rider which is [TS]

  fascinating which is Ghost Rider is now [TS]

  a Hispanic American as well and is it [TS]

  and he's got a he's got a ghost car i've [TS]

  only read the first couple issues but [TS]

  it's really that's awesome it's like a [TS]

  lowrider kind of ghost rider is it is [TS]

  actually sounds good i think that was [TS]

  liberated the first couple issues are [TS]

  really great and and it is a it is let's [TS]

  do something with again it's a known [TS]

  character who's had a bunch of different [TS]

  there was like the original ghost rider [TS]

  was a cowboy on a horse and then there's [TS]

  the famous jhonni blaze [TS]

  nicholas Nicholas hey version on the [TS]

  motorcycle accidents move that and get [TS]

  ghostwriting transform you heard it here [TS]

  first but that movies fun they make some [TS]

  really neat choices in that movie but [TS]

  but i really like okay this idea that [TS]

  now there's another Reyes to its robbie [TS]

  reyes and he's got a car and he's an [TS]

  east LA and but it's still you know [TS]

  demon and fire and all of that and it's [TS]

  just like you know that's a fun spin and [TS]

  i love that like a writer's got a good [TS]

  idea and and like I said about this kind [TS]

  of brain drain of of indy creators not [TS]

  wanting to bring new intellectual [TS]

  property to Marvel and DC well this is [TS]

  something that very clever people still [TS]

  want to do which is play with the [TS]

  characters that they that they know and [TS]

  like and that belong to Marvel and DC so [TS]

  I love to see that kind of stuff playing [TS]

  around with these characters like Blue [TS]

  Beetle ghostwriter [TS]

  yeah I i have a question for you guys so [TS]

  if you think about like my frame of [TS]

  references you know I was a teenager in [TS]

  the nineties so you want the things is [TS]

  it it seems like nerds have won [TS]

  everything since then you know like you [TS]

  couldn't really work in tech or be [TS]

  interested in tact back then and now [TS]

  it's completely mainstream everybody [TS]

  loves it back then not everybody read [TS]

  comic books and now everyone loves comic [TS]

  books and I guess my question I would [TS]

  ask you guys is it seems to me that a [TS]

  cost of nerds having kind of one [TS]

  everything is your got to share your [TS]

  toys now to a certain extent you know [TS]

  like now the audience for comic book [TS]

  movies isn't you know a bunch of white [TS]

  guys it's women it's african-americans [TS]

  Latinos and you know especially is here [TS]

  in the United States is becoming more [TS]

  and more diverse I mean are you guys [TS]

  going to be okay with you know the [TS]

  heroes that we see reflecting that a [TS]

  little more as for me i'm going to start [TS]

  reading comics from the forties and just [TS]

  going to go back to the 43 battle where [TS]

  they're just sitting there you are going [TS]

  to be amazed at Wonder Woman my fortress [TS]

  yeah yeah i'm going to say you know [TS]

  speaking of characters who are [TS]

  surprisingly diverse 11 of the [TS]

  characters I've loved in the last few [TS]

  years is Renee Montoya who was created [TS]

  for batman the animated series became [TS]

  part of the comic book continuity and [TS]

  then after Gotham Central and the 52 [TS]

  became the question and and here is a [TS]

  Hispanic lesbian woman as a masked hero [TS]

  yeah and she's still going as far as i [TS]

  know and i'll throw in Miguel O'Hara the [TS]

  spider-man 2099 which they recently [TS]

  brought back and give him his own series [TS]

  which unfortunately is very good but [TS]

  it's another example is the Irish [TS]

  Hispanic from the guy spider man from [TS]

  the future so I I mean to Brianna answer [TS]

  your question for me it's like it [TS]

  doesn't bother me because like i said i [TS]

  really love Jaime Reyes says the Blue [TS]

  Beetle I thought that was really great [TS]

  also by the way and it's not just that [TS]

  character but that that its not New York [TS]

  City I thought that when they brought [TS]

  scarlet spider spider was set in Houston [TS]

  and they did about 20 issues there and [TS]

  it was just like and I I think they're [TS]

  moving we're moving to San Francisco oh [TS]

  they're moving iron man two San [TS]

  Francisco like they move the x-men a few [TS]

  years ago was like that's great not [TS]

  because I you know I live near San [TS]

  Francisco but because like it's nice to [TS]

  get get tell some stories that aren't in [TS]

  New York City it's almost always have [TS]

  diversity with the x-men the Avengers [TS]

  Fantastic Four [TS]

  Power Man Iron Fist and Doctor Strange [TS]

  all living things by water away from [TS]

  each other [TS]

  stop attacking this city it's like [TS]

  Greenwich Village you know it's just all [TS]

  superheroes and not know now that not [TS]

  all the artists live within like [TS]

  somebody hire your downtown yard and [TS]

  well actually I'm kind of familiar with [TS]

  san francisco so i could draw a study [TS]

  that its not New York oh wait that's [TS]

  actually brought in [TS]

  I'd like to mention what i think is one [TS]

  of the most successful diversity [TS]

  castings that there's kind of two kinds [TS]

  of character recasting is there's the [TS]

  kind we normally talk about where a new [TS]

  character is going to be this hero like [TS]

  this people [TS]

  Spiderman was Peter Parker but now Miles [TS]

  Morales is putting on the costume but [TS]

  there's the other kind where they just [TS]

  take a character and now this character [TS]

  has a different background they usually [TS]

  can't do that in regular continuity have [TS]

  to wait for a reboot but when the [TS]

  ultimates series started they made nick [TS]

  fury black right and it went great and [TS]

  for once [TS]

  nobody complained about it well because [TS]

  I'm sure at the time somebody complained [TS]

  yeah yeah no I I definitely complained [TS]

  about it but not to but not because the [TS]

  character was made black but because the [TS]

  character is made in 2 samuel l jackson [TS]

  which I which I thought was incredibly [TS]

  lazy on the part of the artists to say [TS]

  that will instead of creating and [TS]

  creating a black man that we think that [TS]

  will what will be cast appropriately for [TS]

  this we're going to take someone that [TS]

  everybody already knows and already [TS]

  associated with being a real badass and [TS]

  therefore that will be a shortcut for me [TS]

  as an artist I don't have to develop [TS]

  this brand-new and as it turned out I is [TS]

  all very act around now because that now [TS]

  then they cast him as nick fury and now [TS]

  it's like okay it's ya boy at the time [TS]

  at the time it was let's draw this [TS]

  character like an actor because it's [TS]

  shorthand for what this character is [TS]

  going to be it's totally true [TS]

  lazy lazy lazy but I think in try as [TS]

  someone who draws for a living like I [TS]

  had to want to create 3d models i have [TS]

  to do create mathematical orthographic [TS]

  sketches and I've never seen that is [TS]

  laziness I've always liked a match [TS]

  and in my mind that when they cast [TS]

  someone for a Marvel movie they make [TS]

  them come in and they take different [TS]

  pictures of them from different [TS]

  direction so they have reference [TS]

  materials so the character looks [TS]

  consistent so that's always been my take [TS]

  on that I don't think there's a cynical [TS]

  laziness about it what happened what [TS]

  happened it looks exactly like Sam yeah [TS]

  and it this predates the movies i'll buy [TS]

  a long time they actually literally said [TS]

  hey wouldn't it be cool if Samuel [TS]

  Jackson was our new nick fury somebody [TS]

  give him a call and see if he's okay [TS]

  with it and then they drew it to look [TS]

  like him and then what happens is like [TS]

  five years later ten years later the [TS]

  calyx a standard Ricky yeah so okay yeah [TS]

  that's rapidly able yeah seems okay and [TS]

  then and then of course what they did is [TS]

  that was so successful that in the [TS]

  mainstream Marvel university basically [TS]

  introduced Nick Furies son [TS]

  whoo-hoo he had with with an [TS]

  african-american woman who's a black [TS]

  Nick Fury and then said he's Nick Fury [TS]

  jr. but will call him Nick Fury and then [TS]

  the old Nick three disappeared and it [TS]

  was like let's just say that this is [TS]

  nick fury ok because this is another one [TS]

  of those things are I i wish that if I [TS]

  will get the editors just had a little [TS]

  bit had the guts to simply say [TS]

  occasionally they'll be the first page [TS]

  of comically just a little memo from the [TS]

  editors that saying yeah you know and I [TS]

  know why we have what we decided to do [TS]

  this it's all it's all for the good but [TS]

  we're not going to pretend that there's [TS]

  a whole story reason why we decided to [TS]

  introduce this character but no it's [TS]

  like hey Nick asterisk and at the bottom [TS]

  it says nick is black now [TS]

  ok I'm not Brandon Allen show along with [TS]

  years ago George Burns came out and said [TS]

  the guy who was playing our neighbor [TS]

  isn't with us anymore [TS]

  here's the new actor he's our neighbor [TS]

  now and they just got on with ya [TS]

  yep and but what I think is interesting [TS]

  about the Nick Fury situation is there [TS]

  are people out there complaining that [TS]

  johnny storm is going to be a black [TS]

  character or that heindall was a black [TS]

  character and Thor right speaking of why [TS]

  they don't seem to have noticed another [TS]

  character mysteriously turning black on [TS]

  the way to the movies [TS]

  that's all I wanted to say that that [TS]

  actually does to me that invented that [TS]

  addresses the question I think I don't [TS]

  know if I've an opinion on whether [TS]

  sharing the [TS]

  that comics becoming more mainstream [TS]

  involves sharing a comic books with [TS]

  people who are not by dudes I think it's [TS]

  to me i think the larger the louder [TS]

  voices that now we're sharing the comic [TS]

  universe with people who are expecting [TS]

  comic books to be more like movies and [TS]

  more like TV shows and are not they [TS]

  didn't grow up with the idea that ok [TS]

  you're going to be following the story [TS]

  for a year and a half and there's going [TS]

  to be at least two or three years worth [TS]

  of useful backstory behind it that [TS]

  you're gonna have to sort of track [TS]

  alongside I think that that's the bigger [TS]

  influence now than the than anything [TS]

  else but it's that bad [TS]

  oh no well you know i would i would say [TS]

  so because anything that anything that [TS]

  brings and anything that makes a comic [TS]

  book that people enjoy [TS]

  that's a great thing and if it makes a [TS]

  hundred people enjoy this issue that's [TS]

  that would not have enjoyed it before [TS]

  that's a positive thing even if along [TS]

  the way you choose off two or three [TS]

  people who had buying that comic for [TS]

  about two or three years it's all about [TS]

  it and I think it's a kinetic there's a [TS]

  continuity of people coming in and [TS]

  people leaving if-if-if Marvel's [TS]

  business plan is that we're gonna hook [TS]

  somebody dates 13 and when that person [TS]

  is 45 we're going to make sure that [TS]

  we're still making that one person happy [TS]

  that's a good way to eventually have an [TS]

  audience of 80 people i I'm very very [TS]

  glad that they're even when the guy keep [TS]

  coming in and out of certain marvel [TS]

  comics i did have to stop reading [TS]

  Fantastic Four i actually had to make it [TS]

  a new mission rules saying no under no [TS]

  circumstances Andy are you allowed to [TS]

  buy another fantastic for comic because [TS]

  every time you buy one now it you just [TS]

  are never never pleased with it [TS]

  I'm I i wish i could still read that [TS]

  book because i've been reading it since [TS]

  I was a teenager but i have to [TS]

  acknowledge that if this makes if the [TS]

  changes that they've done to this book [TS]

  make it more approachable more readable [TS]

  and more importantly more relevant to a [TS]

  2014 audience i got absolutely no [TS]

  complaints i got 20 years of real of a [TS]

  lot of fun on this book it's it's so [TS]

  selfish of me to expect a comment to [TS]

  stay the way that I like it or only to [TS]

  introduce change that I approve of [TS]

  I have fun i feel like it's a long time [TS]

  comic book creator that kind of add them [TS]

  flow is [TS]

  as is just part of being a comic book [TS]

  creator i love x-23 i love female [TS]

  Wolverine she's one of my favorite [TS]

  characters in the entire x-men universe [TS]

  but you know her one shots series there [TS]

  was a certain point with that where i'm [TS]

  like i just can't read this it's so [TS]

  terrible we've all had moments like that [TS]

  and I don't know I feel like it's just [TS]

  that Evan flow of it that you you have [TS]

  books that you like and they make [TS]

  changes or no more frequently they don't [TS]

  lose the really awesome artist and the [TS]

  quality of it takes a dive and Adela [TS]

  didn't look at other books and you learn [TS]

  different stories i think that's I think [TS]

  that's the fun of being a comic book [TS]

  reader is is never knowing when you go [TS]

  to the store like what [TS]

  awesome new series they're going to come [TS]

  up with i think it's fine you know I [TS]

  think a lot of reaction and I there two [TS]

  reactions happening here i think it and [TS]

  when definitely one reaction is from [TS]

  people who are upset because I at its [TS]

  root they're not as interested in seeing [TS]

  a woman be throws a man or a black man [TS]

  be captain america as a white man i do [TS]

  think those people exist but i do think [TS]

  a lot of this is because the difference [TS]

  between movies and comics when they say [TS]

  Johnny Storm in the new Fantastic Four [TS]

  movie is going to be Michael B Jordan [TS]

  people some people will say things about [TS]

  it but it's like you know like with you [TS]

  know other examples where you are making [TS]

  a new movie and you've cast in a [TS]

  different direction [TS]

  people will be like all right it's a [TS]

  movie whatever because it's new and it's [TS]

  not like the old movies and whatever but [TS]

  with comics there is that that core of [TS]

  like but wait a second this is supposed [TS]

  to be the same guys before in the Nick [TS]

  Fury example Nick Fury jr. is a great [TS]

  example which is these kind of torturous [TS]

  how do we make it fit and continuity as [TS]

  opposed to just saying tella tell a good [TS]

  story and I think that that is what what [TS]

  makes people i unnecessarily may be [TS]

  angry but I who am I to judge makes them [TS]

  angry is because it is not just seen as [TS]

  a creative choice for a particular work [TS]

  but seen as being kind of a rewriting [TS]

  our underwriting of this continuing [TS]

  story that's been going on and I get it [TS]

  but at the same time this is the this is [TS]

  the challenge just like it's the [TS]

  challenge for the star trek producers [TS]

  when they said this is going to be an in [TS]

  continuity reboot of Star Trek [TS]

  is you can't just make Spock black in [TS]

  the right mood if you do that because [TS]

  you've said it's part of continuity and [TS]

  the burden changes in the end up putting [TS]

  Carol Marcus and the shuttlecraft and [TS]

  just as a bra on and solve the problem [TS]

  right uh release are adding a woman [TS]

  right and i firmly believe that's why [TS]

  they did it is that they wanted to add [TS]

  another woman in the casket was only the [TS]

  1i think it's also important not to [TS]

  nuttin here somebody out when they have [TS]

  an objection because you don't [TS]

  necessarily know the reason why I [TS]

  thought that Michael beat Michael [TS]

  Michael B Jordan instantly made me [TS]

  interested in the Fantastic Four right [TS]

  now because I ice I've seen his movies [TS]

  as soon as use i would not have I would [TS]

  not have put them on a list of 10 people [TS]

  that I would cast because I probably [TS]

  would not be thinking about about a [TS]

  black person in that role but while he [TS]

  has exactly the right attitude exactly [TS]

  the right personality his movies that [TS]

  such perfect casting but nonetheless i [TS]

  have to admit though who was who was the [TS]

  star trek voyager the black room and the [TS]

  black welcome to talk to find the right [TS]

  I'm right house i have to say that ice [TS]

  I really that made the record group skip [TS]

  for me because for me it was my 1st for [TS]

  the 1st like eight episodes like but [TS]

  every time the Paramount every time you [TS]

  have cast an actor as a Vulcan not only [TS]

  have you gone for a white person then [TS]

  put the little greenish makeup on him [TS]

  you always chosen the not only just bite [TS]

  but the right the same sort of angular [TS]

  sort of features and now you're giving [TS]

  me the first Vulcan that does not look [TS]

  anything like all of the Vulcans you've [TS]

  seen before [TS]

  is there a really big story but it was [TS]

  it really take me well it was a while to [TS]

  adjust that doesn't mean that all you [TS]

  can [TS]

  there's something wrong with this [TS]

  decision is like it's your tell you've [TS]

  told me something for 30 years and now [TS]

  you're telling me something different [TS]

  your story has changed now I don't know [TS]

  why the pole looks like looks at all and [TS]

  the kind of bony angular2 a little bit [TS]

  too and enterprise so so okay voice your [TS]

  expert [TS]

  yes here with us different is it ever [TS]

  address what justice is the real is the [TS]

  racial composition I don't know what [TS]

  everybody is crazy is a racial [TS]

  composition of Vulcan and Tuvok [TS]

  being a dark-skinned instead of likes [TS]

  can ever mentioned at all i've seen [TS]

  every episode of voyager like 10 times i [TS]

  do not remember that ever being an [TS]

  interesting interesting yeah i I just I [TS]

  mean I mean and he's not wrong they did [TS]

  kind of cast like I want an emo a type [TS]

  for every Vulcan that we would just be [TS]

  honest i have i have never thought that [TS]

  thought for even two seconds like the [TS]

  being surprised at two boxes I think Tim [TS]

  russets performance is dead on Vulcan [TS]

  and he does yeah got over it it's just [TS]

  that again i assume that at some point [TS]

  that's going to be the episode in which [TS]

  this is addressed to take me a few [TS]

  episodes to get past that and start to [TS]

  just say okay he's a Vulcan but for [TS]

  reasons that don't matter this is [TS]

  casting to typewrite and this is one of [TS]

  the problems is when you have a legacy [TS]

  of casting to type where the casting is [TS]

  about we're going to the type is it's a [TS]

  white man and now you're saying we all [TS]

  right no well I will know and not quite [TS]

  I mean it'sit's like imagine imagine [TS]

  that they had a Klingon who did not have [TS]

  ridges on his or her forehead and just [TS]

  like that we don't talk about that all [TS]

  series like this fighting i'm saying [TS]

  that when they when they read when they [TS]

  read it they simply said that that they [TS]

  did again they didn't have to put that [TS]

  little like it down parka master suite [TS]

  realize first Star Trek fans we did not [TS]

  have the technology to do really cool [TS]

  makeup in the sixties so please accept [TS]

  that all Klingons always look basically [TS]

  what they did they said these are [TS]

  Klingons now right yeah and then see [TS]

  that I have to agree with you Jason [TS]

  yeah I I just strongly have to agree [TS]

  with you I i think that i think that [TS]

  you're dealing with legacy problems [TS]

  there in the problem is so many of these [TS]

  characters star trek comics doctor who [TS]

  similarly really mythic important [TS]

  characters to us they come from an era [TS]

  that was even more racist and sexist [TS]

  than today and it is i think like we're [TS]

  just so used to it being white men that [TS]

  you don't even notice it a certain point [TS]

  and it's yeah the argument isn't I don't [TS]

  want women characters the argument is or [TS]

  is not a woman but the problem is if you [TS]

  if you literally example if this has and [TS]

  say don't change it what you're saying [TS]

  is you know if something's gotta give [TS]

  because they're all along largely they [TS]

  are all men so how do we do this when [TS]

  you mentioned doctor who you reminded me [TS]

  of Neil game and got into [TS]

  a small internet kerfuffle when he when [TS]

  he was being asked about his [TS]

  he was being asked about his [TS]

  opinions about what if you cast a woman [TS]

  as a doctor as the next doctor and he [TS]

  said he didn't think that was a good [TS]

  idea and I'm not going to try to quote [TS]

  him because i don't remember the exact [TS]

  details but he did you know his voice at [TS]

  least it didn't have to do you have to [TS]

  do it how to do a follow-up to explain [TS]

  more details and he has no problems ii [TS]

  is no disagreement with a female doctor [TS]

  who but knowing what the storyline is [TS]

  right now he knew that if they cast a [TS]

  woman in this in the role right now they [TS]

  really would have to make a storyline [TS]

  about why is the first is why is the [TS]

  first regeneration of the doctor who is [TS]

  not who is not a not a not a man and for [TS]

  that reason he felt he wants to see [TS]

  fellow would be a good idea to tie up [TS]

  some really pressing eminent storylines [TS]

  because it would be a distraction at [TS]

  this point so that's the sort of thing [TS]

  that sometimes you can front you have to [TS]

  look at the effect on the audience that [TS]

  if you been [TS]

  it's sometimes I don't think it's as [TS]

  easy to change the gender of the cast a [TS]

  person of a different gender or a [TS]

  different ethnicity without having a [TS]

  factor in how is that can affect your [TS]

  ability to tell the next three episodes [TS]

  of the show and tiff to be his credit [TS]

  neil gaiman to the one who wrote the [TS]

  fact the Time Lords can change their [TS]

  genders in to cut into cannon [TS]

  yeah in an episode of his he wrote that [TS]

  into cannon so now it's there it's [TS]

  sitting right there I was very [TS]

  disappointed by Doctor Who being another [TS]

  white dude again and I I don't know I it [TS]

  sounds like i am i'm trying to hear [TS]

  where you're coming from in the pattern [TS]

  i'm seeing again and again is it feels [TS]

  like to you you play some really really [TS]

  high importance on this story likes like [TS]

  working within your framework and the [TS]

  way that you do understand story is not [TS]

  do you have any objection to these [TS]

  changes is that you really value fitting [TS]

  in with this this world that you know [TS]

  and I think like the difference i have [TS]

  here is I feel like I feel like I'm [TS]

  willing to fudge that a little bit to [TS]

  get more representation there i mean [TS]

  it's I'll tell you straight up i'm more [TS]

  interested in representation if it even [TS]

  if it means altering the story better [TS]

  making it uncomfortable that and I [TS]

  have no absolutely see that absolutely [TS]

  absolutely respect that for me it's it's [TS]

  more of a generalized thing we're a big [TS]

  thing for me we're watching a movie a TV [TS]

  show reading a book i feel as though the [TS]

  creators of this get to write whatever [TS]

  rules they possibly want [TS]

  they basically tell us here is the [TS]

  composition of the air here is the [TS]

  gravity here are the laws in this land [TS]

  here is what how fast can go on the [TS]

  roads and I think that when you get [TS]

  three quarters of the way through and [TS]

  you said that yeah i know that for the [TS]

  past four hundred pages we told you that [TS]

  the air and people breathe oxygen in [TS]

  this in this world actually now we're [TS]

  going to tell you that here is about [TS]

  8,000 people who breathe nitrogen and [TS]

  when I could explain why it's not that [TS]

  that's necessarily mistake but that [TS]

  really there's a part of my brain this [TS]

  processing but wait a minute you told me [TS]

  the rule was that nobody on this planet [TS]

  breathe nitrogen and now you're showing [TS]

  me a thousand people who breathe it and [TS]

  you're acting like that's not something [TS]

  that I'm supposed to sort of skip over [TS]

  that sometimes some stories they do make [TS]

  it like like I would posit for for my [TS]

  own perception that they did posit that [TS]

  Vulcans are a very insulated society [TS]

  that have a very very consistent [TS]

  appearance that again so much so that [TS]

  you could get nine if you get 90 white [TS]

  dudes in the casting call and say okay [TS]

  all but three of you go home because [TS]

  only three of you look like Vulcans [TS]

  that's why that's sort of it it doesn't [TS]

  become a problem for me but that means [TS]

  that now there is a percentage of my cpu [TS]

  that's running that as a background [TS]

  processes [TS]

  why is there a black Vulcan and that i [TS]

  think that's that's a little bit like [TS]

  having no seaweed on the front of your [TS]

  rotting keel that's racing like why do [TS]

  you want to put that extra stupid why [TS]

  not just not why just before slow this [TS]

  down one percent i guess it's not and [TS]

  and I do appreciate that's that I do [TS]

  agree with your pretty with your your [TS]

  position that sometimes [TS]

  ok if you if you confuse people for a [TS]

  few episodes that's all to the good [TS]

  because we need to have better [TS]

  representation out there that is [TS]

  something that I definitely support i [TS]

  like the idea of them taking Thor and [TS]

  making him a woman a because it's a [TS]

  crazy daring thing to do to take in [TS]

  arguably one of the most manliest [TS]

  ridiculously manly characters and say [TS]

  he's a woman now he has the same hair [TS]

  but let's see what that does partly [TS]

  because for so many of the really iconic [TS]

  characters you can't do that because [TS]

  some jerk in the thirties put man right [TS]

  in their name [TS]

  oh right now you can't have a lady [TS]

  spider man or lady Superman or lady [TS]

  Batman [TS]

  oh because their ex man but he's not [TS]

  Thor man right [TS]

  I i just want to start singing Thor [TS]

  you'll be a woman soon the aisle but for [TS]

  what well get well one of the things [TS]

  that I like about that the way that [TS]

  they're handling the same Wilson Falcon [TS]

  taking over as captain america is that [TS]

  is that is happening in something we [TS]

  already have seen which is there's a [TS]

  storyline involving captain america and [TS]

  he sort of sacrifices himself and has [TS]

  the super-soldier serum neutralized and [TS]

  becomes an old man and so he can't be [TS]

  Captain America anymore we've seen this [TS]

  in the passwords like he's in capacities [TS]

  dead they had Bucky put in the in the [TS]

  captain america suit a few years ago I [TS]

  had the punisher yeah so so in this case [TS]

  there's there there is it actually is [TS]

  happening at a point the story and I [TS]

  don't know what the story is with with [TS]

  Thor but I i feel like you know sure you [TS]

  want this stuff stuff to happen if [TS]

  you're in an ongoing story you want it [TS]

  to happen organically and and that I [TS]

  think that I think that definitely is [TS]

  better [TS]

  this is what this is this is I i think [TS]

  this i think this affects how a lot of [TS]

  people react to this thing in general [TS]

  matter what what with the characters or [TS]

  whatever or who gets in the costume i [TS]

  think i think that for me what makes [TS]

  them but sometimes it works or sometimes [TS]

  I'm more open to it then other times is [TS]

  that there are characters i feel as [TS]

  though this is a costume and identity [TS]

  that lots of people can inhabit like [TS]

  ghostwriter where this is just there [TS]

  it's it's a it's it was it seems as [TS]

  though the person inside is not as [TS]

  important as that costume and that skill [TS]

  set and that role in the Marvel Universe [TS]

  and then when you plug more different [TS]

  people into it you get to see it's kinda [TS]

  like a hundred bullets if you give the [TS]

  same here is a eight idea that we're [TS]

  going to apply to a series of different [TS]

  people and part of what makes the [TS]

  character so strong is that you see how [TS]

  different people react to this other [TS]

  characters like spider-man and Captain [TS]

  America I feel as though Steve Rogers [TS]

  and Peter Parker are kind of [TS]

  non-negotiable the same thing with but [TS]

  with back [TS]

  man if it's not Bruce Wayne you've just [TS]

  got someone else keeping the suit warm [TS]

  while Bruce went well the real Batman is [TS]

  not there [TS]

  Thor is different because it's great [TS]

  conceit where you have here is a hammer [TS]

  where if you are worthy of picking it up [TS]

  you got you become the god or goddess of [TS]

  thunder does gender and determinants [TS]

  this is I think that's it that's almost [TS]

  a good topic for an entire show that [TS]

  there what's the difference between an [TS]

  identity and the person inside the suit [TS]

  again I I can't [TS]

  it's hard for me to get I i get past the [TS]

  idea of someone else in the spider-man [TS]

  suit [TS]

  captain america also i don't feel as [TS]

  though you can just simply put someone [TS]

  else in the costume and you know the [TS]

  contents of it are interchangeable but [TS]

  that's certainly not something I feel [TS]

  about every character so there was a [TS]

  time when I would strongly agree with [TS]

  you you know how much I love spider-man [TS]

  is one of my favorite characters and [TS]

  Peter Parker on how upset I was at what [TS]

  happened to him in the two different [TS]

  arcs that they've had and yet you know [TS]

  what I love Miles Morales and I don't [TS]

  feel like I feel like he's telling a [TS]

  story that is it definitely a spider-man [TS]

  story even though he's not Peter Parker [TS]

  so i think it can be done and what I [TS]

  love about this same wilsonart with [TS]

  Captain America's boy cat being captain [TS]

  america is a lot to live up to and [TS]

  there's gotta be a lot of great dramatic [TS]

  potential in that right of saying you [TS]

  know Steve can't do the job anymore and [TS]

  you you work with Steve for a lot of [TS]

  years and you gotta do this you gotta [TS]

  serve your country this is what you have [TS]

  to do now that's an interesting story to [TS]

  tell but my existence of miles and how [TS]

  much I love miles shows that even though [TS]

  i thought you know p spider-man will [TS]

  always have to be about Peter Parker I [TS]

  didn't turn out to be true although i [TS]

  wasn't interested in Otto Octavius this [TS]

  spider-man I Miles Morales puts that you [TS]

  know points out that that doesn't have [TS]

  to be the case but and I'm for instance [TS]

  you having brought a batman i should [TS]

  also bring a batman beyond which does a [TS]

  really good job putting sound else in [TS]

  the suit but still telling interesting [TS]

  stories about Bruce Wayne was Dick [TS]

  Grayson Batman and me with oh yeah yeah [TS]

  lots of people have been Batman there's [TS]

  a whole world below Batman Incorporated [TS]

  recently right you can get so attached [TS]

  to these characters but we've all had [TS]

  that moment when we're reading a comic [TS]

  book it's the same story the same Dylan [TS]

  the same conflict the same thing [TS]

  happening over and over and over again [TS]

  like with Wolverine who is about to die [TS]

  you know what frustrates me about [TS]

  Wolverine is it seems to follow a really [TS]

  predictable formula Wolverine is [TS]

  fighting someone he suffers it's nearly [TS]

  killed you know he heals despite all [TS]

  odds and then comes back and kick their [TS]

  butt and you know it'sit's with such a [TS]

  formula for so many years that shaking [TS]

  it up [TS]

  yeah yeah that's it happens all the time [TS]

  but that's the formula of hulk hogan [TS]

  wrestling matches too right yeah and I [TS]

  just I again I think sometimes these [TS]

  changes are painful i'm a huge x-men fan [TS]

  and you know Xavier dying was was [TS]

  difficult for me or Jean Grey dying was [TS]

  really difficult for me but like if you [TS]

  read all new x-men like all the things [TS]

  with Cyclops being unable to control his [TS]

  powers as past self coming to like stop [TS]

  its current self from becoming evil I [TS]

  mean it's a really great story and I [TS]

  just I think there's so much potential [TS]

  here did just being a better more [TS]

  exciting story and we get to diversity [TS]

  so it's too awesome things at once and [TS]

  again it's I would raise the specter of [TS]

  Uncle Ben literally like the go heater [TS]

  with great i was i was thinking of rice [TS]

  myself i think i think the strongest [TS]

  stories to keep a foot in both ideas [TS]

  that continuity and establish that [TS]

  whatever happens as as J michael [TS]

  Straczynski said about the difference [TS]

  between Babylon 5 and star trek [TS]

  continuity [TS]

  not only does stuff happened in Babylon [TS]

  5 but stuff stays happened i think even [TS]

  have feet both ideas of change and also [TS]

  honoring on what came before so that it [TS]

  has it can have some continued relevance [TS]

  imagine that if uncle been shot by the [TS]

  shop by the robber and then five years [TS]

  later but let's say in Marvel time let's [TS]

  say 11 months later [TS]

  oh it turns out that the robber was [TS]

  actually as a first person who work with [TS]

  Uncle Ben at the CIA at a secret job he [TS]

  had faked his death to do this but now [TS]

  he's back and he's fine [TS]

  we would have missed this towering event [TS]

  that redefined and reshape this person's [TS]

  life sometimes I think that when we [TS]

  shake things when Marvel is excited [TS]

  about shaking things up every two years [TS]

  they're turning their back on that [TS]

  opportunity of giving that richness that [TS]

  sort of umami to the story that can't [TS]

  happen if in aliens invade everything [TS]

  take over the entire world and a beer [TS]

  later nobody cares but i will say i [TS]

  would love to see the story where Uncle [TS]

  Ben comes back and he has to deal with [TS]

  well here's this thing that changed me [TS]

  but now it turned out to be alive what [TS]

  do i do do I keep doing that because I'm [TS]

  a hero or do I keep doing such a hack [TS]

  that way in such a hat that would be an [TS]

  imaginary story David oh yes and we're [TS]

  like no idea what if I think one reason [TS]

  people don't care about last year's [TS]

  alien invasion that at one point I think [TS]

  it was DC comics had a rule that their [TS]

  entire history took place the last 30 [TS]

  years to keep their characters from [TS]

  getting too old [TS]

  so you have to look at every alien [TS]

  invasion that ever happened like you [TS]

  look at Batman's huge publication [TS]

  history and you don't figure out that he [TS]

  had become Batman met Robin two days [TS]

  later they they fought the Joker at nine [TS]

  am-2 p.m. and then star oh the thing [TS]

  from beyond space attacked so it's like [TS]

  the cosmos cosmic calendar [TS]

  yeah it eventually you gotta stop caring [TS]

  about the alien invasion well it's like [TS]

  this it's like mash it's the you count [TS]

  the days that happened in math and you [TS]

  realize yeah way more days than happened [TS]

  in the Korean War so I guess did we see [TS]

  different parts of what the same day and [TS]

  different episodes of mash it's I [TS]

  tryparse about Christmas episodes yeah [TS]

  that many Christmases not that many [TS]

  Christmases but there is one episode [TS]

  that takes place over the course of a [TS]

  year [TS]

  yeah which is really screwed up and the [TS]

  end the central theme is the Sears [TS]

  Roebuck catalogue now that's a dynamic [TS]

  storytelling [TS]

  well it's like how that episode of get a [TS]

  life or chris elliott dies at the end [TS]

  oh wait that's every episode [TS]

  didn't know what alright alright we are [TS]

  we are out of time [TS]

  this has been a fascinating conversation [TS]

  is much more there's much more we can [TS]

  talk about Andy already suggested topics [TS]

  and we got the moment but this is I mean [TS]

  this is these are these are like comic [TS]

  books in some ways or you know that is [TS]

  like the stories we the humans have been [TS]

  telling around campfires for years and [TS]

  they may even since the dawn of humanity [TS]

  and they change and they grow and [TS]

  sometimes there's probably some guy at [TS]

  the back of the campfires is no didn't [TS]

  in the last story that you told by this [TS]

  campfire you say that his mother was [TS]

  from the east but now you saying she's [TS]

  from the south like yeah well whatever [TS]

  you know they were kind of continuity [TS]

  around the campfires in the caveman days [TS]

  i think even happen then how many [TS]

  different names have John Watson's wife [TS]

  had ya know exactly exactly so it is [TS]

  about storytelling and about about how [TS]

  we all tell these stories in our own [TS]

  minds that we read and we catalog them [TS]

  and then this idea of making change I [TS]

  think that's fascinating i do think that [TS]

  you know we have to salute uh the the [TS]

  publishing companies for doing i mean i [TS]

  can say it's a even if i say it's a a UH [TS]

  a promotional opportunity because it [TS]

  totally is that lets go on the view [TS]

  let's go on the colbert report the fact [TS]

  is they are by making this they're not [TS]

  just making their their intellectual [TS]

  property and their cast of characters [TS]

  more diverse but they're telling stories [TS]

  that maybe haven't told before and I [TS]

  think that's idea is good too and yeah [TS]

  in the end we're friends not gonna stay [TS]

  dead and who knows these other changes [TS]

  make it unto although who knows where [TS]

  they might lead because that also [TS]

  happens that there are temporary changes [TS]

  that end up being awesome and those [TS]

  characters stick around because those [TS]

  were stories that people that resonated [TS]

  with people so that's a good thing too [TS]

  they're not really going to replace [TS]

  these classic x-men with a whole bunch [TS]

  of new guys [TS]

  that's right so anyway I would like to [TS]

  thank my guests for this stimulating [TS]

  conversation [TS]

  David lord thank you for being here [TS]

  anytime Monty actually thank you for [TS]

  bringing your knowledge of common [TS]

  history i reset that uh it'll be [TS]

  redacted and I could thank you so much [TS]

  for being here it's been a slice [TS]

  and Brianna Wu thanks for being back it [TS]

  was great having you here happy to do it [TS]

  the stuff is so important said that's [TS]

  why I'm so passionate about it [TS]

  oh I appreciate that love comics I I [TS]

  appreciate this all started with a [TS]

  conversation about about x-23 right i [TS]

  love x 20mm alright and thanks to [TS]

  everybody out there for listening to us [TS]

  for an hour talk about comics and [TS]

  storytelling and recasting characters [TS]

  and things like that [TS]

  we appreciate you too and we'll see you [TS]

  next time [TS]