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H.I. #18: Monkey Copyright

 

  Well what we've learned to talk. [TS]

  We've only been going an arrant ten minutes on follow up on looking we have things that we theoretically sort of wanted [TS]

  to talk about. I don't fancy our chances I don't know for ever going to get to anything. [TS]

  I feel this is just one hundred percent follow up it feels like a very long time since we did this it has been a very [TS]

  long time I think for us it's been almost three weeks since the last time we recorded because we recorded the last two [TS]

  back to back so that's why I feel like it's been such a long time you know that you see like your wife every day [TS]

  and every single little thing that happens in life can become a conversation but then [TS]

  when there's like a major someone you haven't seen for a really long time [TS]

  and you talk about what's been going on since we last saw each other [TS]

  and there's like so many things you almost don't know what to talk about like what qualifies as being big enough [TS]

  and important enough. To talk about when you haven't spoken for a long time. [TS]

  Yeah that's exactly it [TS]

  when you haven't seen another person you can't talk about the little things because they're not involved enough to care [TS]

  or for it to be meaningful in the slightest. [TS]

  So you just have to talk about the big things that three weeks is difficult because three weeks is that nothing really [TS]

  big could have happened that will probably not happen [TS]

  but the little things all of a sudden same two little three weeks is probably the worst possible gap between talking to [TS]

  friends or recording podcasts. [TS]

  I actually had to go back [TS]

  and listen to our old podcasts like I made fun of you doing on the last show because I just I felt like I could not [TS]

  remember at all what we talked about and then oh yes what a delightful conversation about like that was how go great. [TS]

  I do enjoy listening to I am not going to lie I did enjoy listening to you talk about flags [TS]

  and if I made fun of you for the same behavior last time [TS]

  but I thought wow that was really enjoyable I'd listen to that guy again you know in one of the last one cast I think [TS]

  it was the last one. I jokingly said I'd be sitting by the pool in Morocco listening to a podcast. [TS]

  Well I was sitting by the pool in Morocco [TS]

  and I was listening to a pod like there was kind of a reason for it because people pay people may not care [TS]

  but the way we make this is you usually send me kind of a a very rough cut [TS]

  and once you put it together so I can have a quick listen and give you some ideas for titles and editing [TS]

  and things like that [TS]

  and so I was listening to those before you had put it up so I felt like I had to listen to it I was hoping I was doing [TS]

  my job. [TS]

  Yeah and there's another sort of thing which I'm often maligned by my wife was kind of chuckling at my own jokes. [TS]

  But just in general if I'm with people I say joke I have that I'll laugh after I say that I was sitting by the pole [TS]

  and then [TS]

  and then I heard myself make the joke that I will be sitting by the pool the maraca this thing to the pod cast [TS]

  and I was sitting by the pool listening to the book [TS]

  and then I laughed at my snow joke because of the funniness of the fact that I was doing it. [TS]

  And then I post the podcast and turned to my wife next to me [TS]

  and said the funniest thing just happened I was listening to the park and as I said the PA the poem [TS]

  or the park US brother and then I told her like the whole matter joke [TS]

  and then I laughed laughed at the joke of the joke of the joke so it was a bit like Inception I was laughing at this [TS]

  joke about eight levels down and I just thought this is the most amazing thing ever and then she got on the phone [TS]

  and said Take not you could I said I mean I was the most amazing thing. [TS]

  So I'm back live a good time in Morocco it was amazing. Yeah very hot it was very relaxing. [TS]

  We were staying at this kind of quiet nice place which was quite quite grown up type place not many kids there [TS]

  and then a few kids arrived one day with a family are the worst. Yeah I know these things happen. [TS]

  So anyway two nights we were there they have got this open air cinema where they just set up some rugs [TS]

  and lovely cushions on the side of it. [TS]

  They play a movie was that I was going to play Casablanca and of course if you're in Morocco [TS]

  and I've never seen Casablanca and not know that my wife [TS]

  and we're waiting for to it is going to be really lovely watching Casablanca under the stars in Morocco. [TS]

  So we went and we laid we laid out on the head like these they have got these wireless headphones so it was nice. [TS]

  It's a really nice thing and that would say the movie earlier in the week so we knew how lovely it was going to play [TS]

  and they didn't tell anyone this but there was a delay starting and then we had to watch all these trailers [TS]

  and all these things and then eventually that the film started and it wasn't Casablanca. [TS]

  They played a hundred games and I like the Hunger Games is a good film [TS]

  but I'd seen it before it's not what I was expecting. [TS]

  O'Day we've been looking forward to Casablanca I hadn't told anyone they were going to play Casablanca [TS]

  and we are so lucky I took my headphones off and I sort of said to the people what was going on [TS]

  and I said the kids went to the manager today and one of the kids went to the manager today [TS]

  and said Can we watch hunger games instead. [TS]

  My managers that are OK and they didn't tell anyone that changed and they just played it and everyone had turned up [TS]

  and light was sitting there a man took me with their glasses of wine waiting for the film [TS]

  and then the different film started tell you there was some there are some quietly unhappy people there. [TS]

  Oh man I went with another winning everything but. So we went back to the room and I I asked for the D.V.D. [TS]

  Of Casablanca as that we could work in Iran and then they brought it to my hand. [TS]

  We watch the first twenty minutes and got tired and fell asleep and said I will watch it tomorrow [TS]

  and the next to the next one I want an exciting evening. [TS]

  Yeah that was a pretty exciting evening I was asked I can center the next morning the people come to the room [TS]

  and I said Can we have the Casablanca D.V.D. [TS]

  Back and they were very sheepish and I'm like oh no I didn't finish watching [TS]

  and after what you did last night I'm hanged. [TS]

  Because we're going to watch it tonight and I said oh we really need a back and I said you know I'm going to pack [TS]

  and I we need it because we're going to play tonight on the big screen again and it wasn't a movie not that not [TS]

  and it turns out so many people who had gotten their knickers in a twist about this. [TS]

  There's been this huge mutiny and the manager had like realized the error of his ways [TS]

  and they had to have another big move in the next night and they did show Casablanca [TS]

  and it was lovely under the stars right. [TS]

  Very nice evening to have this thing about kids right because we're here because we don't have kids [TS]

  and we haven't got kids is easy to winge about not having kids. [TS]

  Well it is about kids because they're like little monsters. Former teacher. [TS]

  Yeah in the last podcast you made some some when we talk about dogs [TS]

  and we were talking about having kids versus dogs and I thought the view was that had kids would get into if it is [TS]

  and then say we were going to clip about kids not a single comment I was I was going to bring up the same thing I was [TS]

  amazed. Not a single person complained about our comment that dogs are more responsibility than children. [TS]

  Well you know I'm going to take is evidence that people who have dogs and children know that we are right about this [TS]

  but you know you suggested that you know languages in schools is unnecessary [TS]

  and it was like an international incident and then you may say but there's nothing about kids nothing. [TS]

  It must say something about our audience I guess [TS]

  but no I think it says something about how difficult children are relative to how difficult dogs are that's that's all [TS]

  and that's why I think it's By that rationale because of all the outcry of your take your stuff that means you must [TS]

  acknowledge that you take your stuff was wrong. Language stuff. Now I know it is a work both ways. [TS]

  It only works one way. OK what have we got on the list of things to follow up. [TS]

  Wheat there was some talk about you will love checklists [TS]

  and sort of a challenge was thrown down to guess what Grey's daily checklist is because you won't reveal what's on your [TS]

  daily checklist for whatever reason. Yes yes yes oh yes we mentioned that. [TS]

  Or you threw down a challenge to the listeners to try to guess what was on my checklist. [TS]

  There were some guesses I did say some on the side. Did you have a look through them. [TS]

  Yeah there were a bunch there were a bunch of really good guesses [TS]

  but my favorite was by a guy called delusion on the Reddit [TS]

  and his look his list is it continues on the metal beam because some of the items that he wrote for what he guessed was [TS]

  on my list is one. [TS]

  Check previous day's list and carry over new business today to arrange today's list according to current needs. [TS]

  Proofread today's list left justified today's LIST. Nice touch there to life stuff. Update list based on life stuff. [TS]

  Make tentative list for tomorrow. [TS]

  Review this month's list and update accordingly and then review the day's list [TS]

  and contemplate any other necessary lists I thought he's kind of right. [TS]

  It's not too far off because I do use many lists to manage my other lists so it is general [TS]

  but it is it is kind of right well done to delusion. The most accurate IF least specific list you could possibly make. [TS]

  So I like that I like that a lot. [TS]

  So all of the other people who are making a lot more serious guesses they were quite aware of the makeover there anyway [TS]

  you know there are people people some people are on the Mark one of the things that I thought was funny was somebody [TS]

  wrote up a list and one of the items they included on the list was eat breakfast [TS]

  and somebody somebody replied to them that nobody would need to put breakfast on the list and then I chimed in [TS]

  and said Actually I do have breakfast on my workflow that is one of the items. So this person was correct. [TS]

  Even though other people were jumping in and telling him no that's too ridiculous nobody would put that on there [TS]

  but I do I do have that on my list so I made up stories about my genius scientists who employ people to come [TS]

  and remind them to age because they get so lost in their thoughts they forget to eight. You do that to you. [TS]

  Now I'm not I'm not doing it because I'm not doing it because I'm a genius scientist that I was [TS]

  when I was a kid I would love to have grown up to be a genius scientist [TS]

  but that was not in the cards for me that I am neither smart enough [TS]

  nor diligent enough for the genius scientist route that is very hard I mean I mainly actually have that on my list [TS]

  because I know I am. [TS]

  I think we've touched on it before [TS]

  but I am very aware that my whole day is productivity is very sensitive to slight changes in the morning. [TS]

  So I like things have to go very smooth when I first wake up to kind of getting into the office and starting work [TS]

  and so I I try to make that part of the day really mechanical as much as possible [TS]

  and just do these things in this order every time to try to ease me into getting a good start on the day. [TS]

  So that's why I do have breakfast on there but I don't have other meals that doesn't say don't forget about dinner. [TS]

  It's like this is the order that I want to do things in all the time so that's not still haven't convinced me why you [TS]

  would have to have that written down. [TS]

  I cannot going to get a little it's nothing it's nothing to do with the forgetting. [TS]

  It's it's everything to do with the ritualize ation of what you're doing. [TS]

  First thing in the morning that that's what it is. [TS]

  So this is this is just a way to encourage a little ritual in the morning which I find is beneficial to the whole day's [TS]

  work but you haven't got like brush your teeth [TS]

  or get dressed on the list presumably you know where this is this is the thing with with us I mean we can find them [TS]

  and what a cliff discussion [TS]

  but what is breakfast what what is it about breakfast that gets it on the list that I put on my underpants. [TS]

  Doesn't have that means it doesn't go on the list this is this is the art of checklists creation that's going to be a [TS]

  book as well as creation there is if there is a book if I can remember a time I had the. [TS]

  I don't call it rids which is worth reading. [TS]

  Probably mentioned inaudible at some point but it is the Checklist Manifesto by a tool guy one day who's a doctor. [TS]

  Very interesting book and it talks about how do you make checklists in different environments [TS]

  and one of the things that he talked about is for example prepping surgery patients. [TS]

  So what you need to have a checklist of what is going to happen to prep someone for say open heart surgery [TS]

  and there's a real art in making a checklist that is effective and that you can't put everything on there [TS]

  and that there are actual studies showing how often do things get forgotten or how often do things get messed up. [TS]

  And if a checklist is too long people tend to go through it very automatically without really thinking about it [TS]

  but of course if it's too short you end up with errors because you're leaving off things that you're assuming people [TS]

  are just going to do. But sometimes they don't. [TS]

  And but you want very obvious things on a checklist and he also talked about pre-flight checklist for airplanes. [TS]

  What meaning me on this I know I know you've been excited at how reckless [TS]

  or really boring until their preflight checklist is all of a sudden Brady perk up. That's all OK no go for launch. [TS]

  Yes can't come. Yes all of that stuff. [TS]

  That's Co Yeah that's when Check this become the checklists are never more cool than [TS]

  when they are dealing with space ships are going to go check with but but [TS]

  but so it's an interesting book to read to talk about what what should be and should not be on this kind of list. [TS]

  Yes So for me things like brush teeth put on pants. [TS]

  This is not on the list because they just they happen very naturally [TS]

  but that I think eating breakfast falls into that category. [TS]

  That's what I don't get like I I respect that you can't put too much on and you can't have too little. [TS]

  I'm just surprised that you know any conflicts is is one that would make the list for for me it sounds. [TS]

  But for me I am aware that breakfast is a bit of a trouble point because very often I will wake up [TS]

  and I don't quite feel hungry [TS]

  and I have learned from experience that this is dangerous because I feel like I don't need to eat right now. [TS]

  Let me just start piddling around with some sort of work but it's not really work. [TS]

  This is this is one area where I'm aware that things can go a little bit wrong so it is helpful to have a bit of a [TS]

  nudge that says even if you don't feel like it just eat your standard breakfast now [TS]

  and then move right along this list in taking to getting things set for the day. [TS]

  So I do have on that checklist that while I am making breakfast I do create an additional checklist which is relevant [TS]

  to the events that are going to happen in the day like that where that is that is a nice like let's get going on the [TS]

  day routine [TS]

  and breakfast is a sticking point whereas you never forget to brush your teeth because you just feel so disgusting as a [TS]

  human being until you have done it so that there's no way you're not you're not going to do that [TS]

  but you have to use an electric toothbrush electric toothbrushes are a recent addition to the great household [TS]

  and mine over like a week ago. [TS]

  Did you I was on Reddit the other day and there was a there was a question [TS]

  and I asked what what purchase less than a hundred dollars [TS]

  or something has like been most life changing for a little and I was amazed by the number of people he said. [TS]

  Electric toothbrush. And I've been thinking about one for a long time so I took the plunge and got one. [TS]

  Is it love that Ana care to trust but I know I didn't get that one. [TS]

  I think it's I think it's a posh one it was quite it was it was a posh one. [TS]

  I read all the reviews and the sonic it did look good for various reasons I went for this other one. [TS]

  What's been your first impressions. [TS]

  My wife decided that we were going to convert to electric toothbrushes and so this just happened [TS]

  and we've had them for several months now [TS]

  and here's how I know that this is a thing that has become part of my life without me really noticing because at first [TS]

  I was all unreasonably grumpy about this change for no apparent reason I don't know about this I have to charge my [TS]

  toothbrush I have enough things in my life I need to charge I don't I don't need to charge something like a tooth brush [TS]

  they started to use it and we have a Sonicare one which I highly recommend. [TS]

  I think it's very good but it is very strange to use at first. [TS]

  It sort of tickles it takes a little while to get used to it and then the feeling goes away [TS]

  but I cannot remember where was I. [TS]

  I was overnight somewhere for for travel purposes [TS]

  and I did not have the electric toothbrush I had a regular tooth brush and [TS]

  when I used it it felt like I was brushing my teeth with a twig with some leaves on it I think. [TS]

  How did I ever use this barbaric tool before like you don't even feel remotely clean. [TS]

  Have any of you that is a stick and he's leave. [TS]

  I think I'm just moved a whole bunch of junk around and possibly made my mouth dirtier than it was before. [TS]

  So I cannot go back to what it was you go to an electric toothbrush there is no turning back. [TS]

  You can never you can never reverse as bad at least that that's my feeling I have used a normal tooth brush are you [TS]

  only doing this for a week so we're all you know a couple awakes [TS]

  but man it makes brushing your tastes like fun I really look forward to it like I am now brushing my teeth once a week [TS]

  whether I need to or not the whole book. No but seriously I have a lover. [TS]

  It does it makes it fun like I want I want to do it for longer like it's like just give me another minute [TS]

  or two brushing my taste this is it's like how the shredder has made a paper away from the electric toothbrush has made. [TS]

  Should my teeth really fan. [TS]

  I'm surprised that you would have taken converting you know you know this you know this who the tech guy that most [TS]

  everything modern and thinks technology is the answer to all their problems [TS]

  and yet you have been using to tweak it for so long. [TS]

  Well first I didn't know that it was twenty [TS]

  and I was using it I had to have my eyes opened to him to be a good situation. [TS]

  There's a conflict in which I also value simplicity [TS]

  and I honestly I always about electric toothbrushes were a gimmick I thought this is just the company needs to sell [TS]

  more expensive toothbrushes with higher margins on them [TS]

  and so they're trying to convince me that electric toothbrushes are the way to go [TS]

  and that this is just some some little gimmick thing so I never considered them as being genuinely better but in the. [TS]

  But they really do feel much much better so yes I did need convincing because I was valuing simplicity [TS]

  and I like that I didn't want another yet another thing that I have to charge which I do find irritating. [TS]

  Yeah that is one part of this at least if not I think this is something with the this is a small irritation in the [TS]

  world of living in England is the electric sockets in bathrooms over here. [TS]

  Yes they don't have it's in the electrical code I think that you have [TS]

  and they have you can't have a regular wall socket in the bathroom you know in the U.K. [TS]

  You have these wimpy wimpy little shaving sockets and maybe one if you're lucky but. [TS]

  This is frustrating [TS]

  and so I still don't like the fact that I have to have a little charging station for my tooth brush in my office [TS]

  because there's no other place to put it so I don't like that thumbs down on that I would like there to be wireless [TS]

  charging or magic or just an electric socket in the bathroom. [TS]

  I know I think we're I think we're OK it would only cause a few hundred extra deaths a year [TS]

  and I think for the convenience of eating I would have to trace back in the time it's worth it. [TS]

  It would cause no extra death was in the electrical code if they like what they buy. [TS]

  At the lower that you can have these four power sockets in the bathroom because they're overly cautious we have full [TS]

  power sockets in America you don't hear about rashes of people dying is this is what we have circuit breakers you don't [TS]

  hear about it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. OK Let me let me let me google something Hold on a moment. [TS]

  How many people die from electrocution in the United States every year. In the bathroom. [TS]

  Electrician killed by like a shock while fixing bathroom lights. [TS]

  You don't have to go through every individual story I'm hoping for sort of an overarching statistic. [TS]

  Yeah and I understand that but I'm just trying to one of the top link is nothing to do with the number of deaths. [TS]

  OK let's try something else here I can't even find anything it's just time on the road it would let us know they will. [TS]

  I'm going to assume that basically got right with you sometimes as terrifying pictures of things as I was growing [TS]

  Scully Oh that's what electrified flesh looks like thank you. [TS]

  You could have warned me what is this electrical Safety Foundation International. [TS]

  Seriously we need to get out now on hold on hold on I'm almost there. [TS]

  This this interlude of great giggling something on Helen Today is brought to you by Dr Pepper. [TS]

  Yeah I'm going to basically this is so infrequent as to not be mentioned like I'm saying all this is it's about injury [TS]

  from electric shock just in the household in general I'm seeing almost nothing about death from electric shock I read [TS]

  are you not of the electricians. I refuse to believe that Americans are killing themselves in their bathrooms there. [TS]

  They do some pretty silly stuff Americans [TS]

  and there are a lot of them there are a lot of them yes now I'll be curious We'll see if we can find some actual [TS]

  statistics [TS]

  or some some intrepid listener can find some actual statistics about deaths in the bathroom accidental from electricity. [TS]

  I'd be curious now if I would I would bet that it's not it's not very large. [TS]

  That's my guess I'm betting is large but we will see. So I'm looking at a list here of things and follow up. [TS]

  We've got three one of them. [TS]

  Today's sponsor is audible dot com a leading provider of spoken audio information and entertainment. [TS]

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  After we record this podcast I went and looked [TS]

  and indeed at the Checklist Manifesto How to get things right by to look one day is available on audible because they [TS]

  have over a hundred thousand books to listen to so this is definitely my recommendation for this week. [TS]

  If you are interested in the art of checklist creation or just a book that talks about the problems that can arise [TS]

  when you have humans working in organizations how do you make sure that everyone in a hospital does what they need to [TS]

  do. Or how do you make sure that everybody in an airline does what they need to do. This is the book to listen to. [TS]

  So I highly recommend that one for this week [TS]

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  and thirty day trial today just sign up at Audible dot com slash hello internet. All one word. [TS]

  That's all Bill dot com slash hello internet. Humble bragging. Oh OK I have to just talk about this for a little bit. [TS]

  Since that came out I think you you kind of brought up the term I hadn't heard the term you know how you said on on [TS]

  Twitter you are getting notifications of every single plane crash that ever occurs. [TS]

  Yeah I also see that people treat you with just about every you ever use of the word freebooting. [TS]

  That ever happens in the world. [TS]

  So I experienced the same phenomenon where it seemed like everybody was tweeting me various humble brags I'm getting it [TS]

  I'm maybe not as much as if I'm getting a lot of that back every time someone says. [TS]

  Every time someone humble brags to Twitter a lot. Yeah and it's like people don't know what this word is. [TS]

  I've seen several news stories of people showing me some humble brag and that's not a humble brag. [TS]

  I think the fundamental thing about the humble brag is you are complaining about something in a way that makes you look [TS]

  awesome. That is that is the key thing is this opposition. YORK your sensible complaint I don't. [TS]

  I think you have to be complaining but I think you have to be saying something either negative [TS]

  or something like it a whole new or it has to appear that the premise is something a little bit self-deprecating [TS]

  when in fact the intent is the exact opposite. Yes that's a better way to put it. [TS]

  But complaining is too specific but yes you are are describing yourself in a sensibly negative terms [TS]

  but you're actually pumping yourself up as sort of which they are and there is a Twitter account [TS]

  and it is just a humble brag. And what I like is it is an account that just read tweets people making humble brags. [TS]

  So it doesn't comment on them it just doesn't say anything. [TS]

  There's no it doesn't suite itself it just retrieves other people that's class that's you know [TS]

  and some of them are some of them are just they're just celebrities other people that that you might you might know [TS]

  some who say if I was playing the fear in the me see if I can just find a couple examples of ones that I think are good [TS]

  examples of what a humble brag is. Here's one where humble bragger retreated. [TS]

  Stephen Fry and he says Oh dear I don't know what to do at the airport there's a huge crowd [TS]

  but I'll miss my plane if I stop. And do Fotos. Oh dear don't want to disappoint. [TS]

  Yeah I think this is an example of a humble brag that is a classic example because it's like oh there is this problem [TS]

  and I don't want to disappoint people [TS]

  but I'm talking about the enormous collection of people who are here because I am here that that is a humble brag. [TS]

  There's another one here which I like I don't know who this perfect person is but it is a guy called David Garland [TS]

  and he includes a screen shot with us by the way. [TS]

  He says Oh That awkward moment when you go to bodybuilding dot com and the graphic on the left side is you [TS]

  and a picture of bodybuilding dot com with it looks like his advertisement featuring his own shirtless picture on the [TS]

  left side of the page. [TS]

  But he's presenting this as though it's so awkward that I'm on bodybuilding dot com I can't show my face in public like [TS]

  that is what a humble brag as you know. Yes So I just I just want to mention that. [TS]

  And so people I don't know to stop sending these things which I don't even know how to describe to describe them [TS]

  but people would send me anything that was I guess a brag [TS]

  but a brag may be done in a slightly roundabout way I don't I don't even know how to describe the thing that people are [TS]

  sending me but I just found it infuriating that none of you think they're humble brags. [TS]

  There needs to be this opposition. [TS]

  It can't just be I'm really great [TS]

  and isn't that great is a humble brag to say I have this legion of father was he keep tweeting me humble brags [TS]

  but oh no they keep getting it wrong [TS]

  and I'm going to banks you have over I would I would say I would say no because I feel like I'm not trying to build [TS]

  myself up in that world like that like the bodybuilding dot com one is different you're trying to promote you're trying [TS]

  to promote yourself. That sounds like it was a humble ad. If I thought it was a good example. [TS]

  The thing I get sent a little bit I don't want to say I guess until the time I was sound like I'm bragging [TS]

  but the thing I guess [TS]

  and a little bit on Twitter is misuse of humble which is obviously where this whole conversation started with my little [TS]

  complaint about people misusing saying I've been humbled. [TS]

  So a lot of people are sending those to me [TS]

  and the thing that I find interesting is what they're doing is they're they're finding someone who tweeted it [TS]

  and then they like doing a great way to walk the humble brag Hempel brag I does [TS]

  but they just put me in as well they put Brady Haran and as well so they all say it [TS]

  but they don't very often they don't comment on are they just like you know [TS]

  and I always wonder if the person who made the original. [TS]

  He is wondering why some stranger is tweeting their tweet to this guy code. [TS]

  Brady because they're included in the twenty as well. Right right. [TS]

  With that comment with that person's going why why are these people talking about me I think because I don't like I [TS]

  don't reply or anything so I must just be a little weird moment in their life. Twitter is strange sometimes. [TS]

  Yeah I'm just I'm just going through the list here on Hump [TS]

  and I'm still going to have a few from from a long time ago which were from the Emmys. [TS]

  There's one guy who has posted a picture of him holding an Emmy [TS]

  and he says Why am I not smiling in this picture I have no idea. [TS]

  There's another one here complaining why can't I look cool when I meet Tom Hanks and he hands me an Emmy. [TS]

  Instead I look so nervous [TS]

  and then there's a picture of them getting handed an Emmy by Tom Hanks these are all humble brag. [TS]

  Get your act together people great doesn't want to hear your humble brags and that's that proper humble brags. [TS]

  Next on our list follow up we. [TS]

  Well I was going to say way it was more you spoke for quite some time about the design of U.S. State flags. [TS]

  Yes yes there has been considerable discussion about it on red and elsewhere. [TS]

  I think we've both received a lot of tweets [TS]

  and a mouse are probably were saved more a mouse not because I'm more popular because people realize they should email [TS]

  me if I want to email Brady. [TS]

  Yeah I've now ignore those emails paypal so you can you can lay off and I was once he does [TS]

  and he still sends them email Brady. [TS]

  That's good because I become like this like filter like if someone if a mouse not wanting to offer you like a large sum [TS]

  of money out of them. [TS]

  Yeah OK you know do the negotiation with me and I will do the do [TS]

  and just take a little cut of the top that you can find out a bit. [TS]

  Maybe other that could be possible for both of us if it works out right I don't know tell me about what's been coming [TS]

  to you and your reflections on that discussion. [TS]

  Yeah yeah I was it was incredibly great discussion and I enjoyed listening to me talk about again [TS]

  and you just got on like you go to sleep there every day. [TS]

  When I wanted to point out is people sense me two things in particular where people had redesigned the U.S. [TS]

  State flags and I saw a whole bunch of these and I thought there were two that were interesting and worth mentioning [TS]

  and I shall send one to you. I kept looking at this united we stand. [TS]

  Yes you have to scroll down about one hundred times on this page I can looking at that a complex out there. [TS]

  Yes scroll down scroll down there is just below. There's actually a slightly interesting thing here which is the U.S. [TS]

  Flag. But these are the ones I've looked at. [TS]

  Yeah OK so this this first one is a look at the design project where they decided to do what is sort of the Australia [TS]

  model which is unify the flags. [TS]

  So can we do all of the flags and give them a similar look like I was like having a style guide. [TS]

  Yes I like almost having a style guide and. [TS]

  They settled on a couple points the main one which is the most visually striking right away is that all of the flags [TS]

  are going to be done in only three colors red blue and white. So the American colors and they picked. [TS]

  There's a strange thing which is I always run into this whenever I use an American flag in my videos is the actual [TS]

  colors of the official American flag are much darker than people think they are. [TS]

  It's not a bright blue and a bright red they are really dark colors [TS]

  and if you go to Wikipedia they have the flag of the official colors [TS]

  and it almost looks strange because people aren't used to seeing it so dark I think most flags that people buy like on [TS]

  a stick that you wave in a parade. Those I think those are just done brighter than they really are. [TS]

  Or even a real proper ones. [TS]

  It's often some street they've just been lined up for various reasons so I actually often tweek the colors of the [TS]

  American flag in my own videos [TS]

  and for my little America country girl I know I lightened up the colors on her skirt because it looked weird otherwise [TS]

  do you get the crumbs of Christ you would do to a stick with a date. [TS]

  I'm disappointed I think that because I am American I'm allowed to do it I wouldn't do it with some other country's [TS]

  flag was like I'm American I'm going to you know America others up her own flag is not American enough sign of affray [TS]

  them has to be someone actually tweaking those cover video yes. [TS]

  Yeah so [TS]

  but I went this route this redesign what they've done is they too have decided that the traditional colors are too dark [TS]

  and they've gone with very bright blue very light bright blue and bright red color [TS]

  and they have picked a few elements Stars and Stripes and tried to do all of the fifty flags with a unified look [TS]

  and actually do you have any habit that you have any thoughts on this redesign. [TS]

  Well first of all can I just say to all of those people who are. Listen to this. [TS]

  Pod cast an Oreo format which is one hundred percent of you. [TS]

  Analogies that we're talking about things we're looking at other computers going to be a theme for those of you who [TS]

  have COPD who have gone to the show you know to code up this page [TS]

  and is looking at the same thing on looking at my thoughts a kind of bland boring sameness I have to say [TS]

  and it all looks just like a you know they're cool. [TS]

  I imagine each on their own would be cool but when you see them all together it looks a bit too samey [TS]

  and none of them catch my eye like I don't look look I want to thank Tex So look at one [TS]

  and say California I just look at it and think there's a whole bunch of flags are all kind of similar. [TS]

  It's funny is my thought too. [TS]

  Now first we have to we have to agree as all right thinking people do that almost anything is better than the current [TS]

  state of life which is to say yes this is this is this is better. [TS]

  But it's interesting because I would have expected that I would like this a lot more than I actually do [TS]

  and I would almost have described something just like this if you had asked me what would you do with the flag if you [TS]

  were going to try to unify them [TS]

  and I would think I would probably make all the exact same design decisions that this group has done as well. [TS]

  Let's let's standardize the colors let's standardized design elements. I like a lot of these individual designs. [TS]

  I mean of course obviously Maryland is made vastly inferior because Maryland has the best flag [TS]

  and so you know they had to change all the colors of Maryland is like oh what a shame to lose that beautiful flag. [TS]

  Is that the one they had the yellow and black cherry yellow and black checks with the red [TS]

  and white crosses Yes your uniform. [TS]

  So yes I was very interested by this design because I guess that I expected to like it a lot more than I actually do I [TS]

  still think it is a great bit of design work and some of the if you go through all fifty. [TS]

  If you are a flack not they've made some interesting choices about what the representation suit should be for various [TS]

  states if you if you're familiar with the state at all I think it's interesting to see. [TS]

  But I agree I think it's almost too bland and I wonder if fifty is just too many to try [TS]

  and standardize Except now I'm going to send you the second link so here is the other thing I want to take a look at [TS]

  and I mean this is winter is coming so I have done this using a motif of the pan as in Game of Thrones that sets the [TS]

  house Connecticut house Idaho and I've done them like that. [TS]

  They's a good so now I don't know if I've never seen Game of Thrones you have seen Game of Thrones I'm a big fan yes. [TS]

  I'm assuming that this I will rely on you to to say that this is some there's some of the houses in the mirrors also [TS]

  there for a fiver a bit more houses and each one has a very distinctive banner you know to take into battle [TS]

  and they look just like these things and it becomes a big part of the House of stock have have these walls as [TS]

  and things like that I think the House of Lannister is aligned on the plan of the house I think so yeah I think these [TS]

  houses have a very distinctive my TAFE and these are these are the important part of the show done. [TS]

  Along that does not like that they look you have a slip like that come out of the show this is to say someone's done a [TS]

  state flag in kind of Game of Thrones [TS]

  or so it looks like it should be on a on a staff then carried by soldiers into battle and they are very very good. [TS]

  I really impressed by the ace So this is my thought as well is that this game of thrones state flag redesign I love [TS]

  but the interesting thing about it is this is this is consistent as well. [TS]

  They all look related but but without the sameness of the previous redesign [TS]

  and so I thought these two were an interesting comparison because I look at the first one I think I'll maybe fifty [TS]

  flags is just too many to try to have them have it. Team but then there's this Game of Thrones one thing. [TS]

  Boy is this awesome and they still look coherent but they're distinct enough from each other and I really like it. [TS]

  I think some of them are just the state should just immediately adopt these designs. [TS]

  I mean the thing is I mean part of the thing that makes stays consistent is is quite is almost more. [TS]

  So when I'm looking for. [TS]

  It's almost a the much more detailed [TS]

  but it's also like they've got like a distressed miss to them like they look like they didn't have things you couldn't [TS]

  do with a real flag. [TS]

  That's part of what makes them cohesive Is that kind of pain that had like a filter almost for lack of a better sense [TS]

  put to them whether there is a fake aged filter and over them relatively subtle [TS]

  but it is there helps make it a more coherent set. [TS]

  Either you have to make it more clear [TS]

  but I would still say what I think is interesting scrolling through them is to see that they clearly are using a [TS]

  limited but wider color palette. Yes the yellows keep repeating the Greens the blues they are all in the same feel. [TS]

  They're excellent paper should have a look they really are. [TS]

  So these are these are my favorite [TS]

  and I think almost every state would be improved immediately either by adopting the first one which is not my favorite [TS]

  but I still think it is better [TS]

  or immediately adopting any of King throw things style flags for their state like an echo them signals tonight again [TS]

  the thing is. [TS]

  Something I wanted to ask you [TS]

  when they were discussing the state facts last time I think we kind of I think we kind of I think I said [TS]

  and you see how great that perhaps the problem with state flags was [TS]

  when they created they created by presumably governments and committees and things like that [TS]

  and there are people pulling in different directions and each state would have had different pressures [TS]

  and different people [TS]

  and not only is each flag compromised that each flag has been compromised in subtly different ways and you end up. [TS]

  With his enormous hotch potch and that's bad but the thing is [TS]

  when you look at all the flags of the nations of the world like on a big map why don't I have that problem [TS]

  when you look at all the flags of the world and they're actually pretty good [TS]

  but they were very few duds very few fall into the traps that you would say the state flags to fall into [TS]

  and there's no it's not like there are rules on international flags as far as I know. [TS]

  I imagine any country can do what it wants [TS]

  and yet somehow they have all kind of it's like they've almost cooperated as and [TS]

  when you look at all the flags of all the countries it's OK Kind of makes sense. [TS]

  You don't look at that and think we need to start again like you do with the state facts. [TS]

  What has happened on this international level that didn't happen when the states come up with their flags. [TS]

  I don't know that that's an interesting question. [TS]

  I feel like you are you are right about that [TS]

  but although the world flags look better as a bunch I don't know maybe there is less design by committee for the [TS]

  individual nation flags. [TS]

  I don't know if that's true I would say that there are definitely some duds on the world stage. They're not criminal. [TS]

  Not many when you consider like you know international tastes and things like that. There are there are many bad ones. [TS]

  That's what we should do I think we need to prepare for [TS]

  and take a thorough look at what we can have a whole episode just on the world flags we can about their design that [TS]

  would be sure people would love that I'm sure you would. I would bet a lot. [TS]

  I'd be up for that we'll do that sometimes with what I was actually you just remind me one more thing which is a lot. [TS]

  So I nice looking north american to see what happens I don't care what one of us one of us needs repair. [TS]

  It cannot be me. [TS]

  OK underscoring a trick by the way I'm not like wetting myself in case you can hear that I cannot hear that. [TS]

  But there you go. [TS]

  You might imagine that there are there are no rules for flags about one hundred people after that episode must've sent [TS]

  me this link to the North American Mexico logical Association which has a guideline called the five basic principles of [TS]

  flag design and they they have some guidelines which I think are are interesting. [TS]

  I'll just run through them really quickly. [TS]

  The checklist is that it's sort of it well if it is a it is guidelines guidelines is what I always find the world of [TS]

  design really interesting and I think I need a break first before designing your flag. [TS]

  Now you are just trying to rile me. [TS]

  So the basic guideline is number one is it should be simple [TS]

  and the suggestion is that it should be simple enough that a child could reproduce it from memory. [TS]

  The second one is to use meaningful symbolism. The third is to use no more than three basic colors. [TS]

  Number four which I definitely approve of. [TS]

  No words but words of every kind on your flag [TS]

  and then number five which relates to our discussion of the state flags is be distinctive or be related. [TS]

  So either stand on your own or be connected to things that are similar to your own [TS]

  and they go through they have a whole bunch of examples of good good design and bad design both with the colors [TS]

  or with the simplicity you have or being able to being able to reproduce it from memory [TS]

  and what I like is that they perfectly acknowledge that these are guidelines that you can still have good flags that [TS]

  break these rules and what I absolutely love is the number one example of a flag that is hideous but still works. [TS]

  Yes it is America and it is in Maryland. I laughed so hard when I saw that I thought well I'm not. [TS]

  I mean I can't respect people that make a list that give you five guidelines [TS]

  and then say By the way Number Six is you don't have to follow the previous five. You can't respect that. [TS]

  Yeah it's like here are the rules for designing a flag [TS]

  and by the way you don't have to follow the rules like well OK well [TS]

  and half those rules were not the most obvious thing in the world anyway like make sure your symbols have meaning. [TS]

  Yeah thanks thanks for the advice I was about to put you know the planet Jupiter on my flag I don't know how until you [TS]

  gave me that brilliant advice. You think this simple but most of the state flags ignore a bunch of those rules of war. [TS]

  Oh no danger there is from eleven colours. [TS]

  No child could ever possibly dry I would say half the flag for sale on points one through three immediately [TS]

  and then be distinctive or be related nobody can agree there on what's happening with the flags. [TS]

  So I mean they're just following rule number six which said you don't have to follow the rules you may be better. [TS]

  I disagree you would think that I would be the one who would say you have to follow these rules [TS]

  but this really is where I am endlessly fascinated by how design works and I don't understand it at all [TS]

  and I you know I've read books on design and I find all the stuff really interesting [TS]

  and I just I I am not good at design which is why I am so interested in this [TS]

  and I don't understand why things look good sometimes and why things don't look good. [TS]

  I find this a fascinating topic and it just it seems obvious to me that there may be considerations [TS]

  but somehow people can break these rules and stuff still works but how do you know when to break those rules. [TS]

  I need a I need a checklist for rule breaking this utopia you know but that by that by definition can exist so anyway. [TS]

  Well I want to just throw that in there because everybody sent it to me and I thought it was interesting. [TS]

  Speaking of design. Next on our list a follow up is how. [TS]

  It's an artistic bent and that is we have had a little bit more movement in the I mean we jokingly call a fan [TS]

  but it's probably that's probably not the right word for creations from people who appreciate the show [TS]

  and we think we've posted them on the sub Reddit previously and it's been a bit of chat on social media about it. [TS]

  We should talk about the pod cast. [TS]

  One was a song look [TS]

  and associated animation music clip that went with it created by a couple of guys who we've kind of crossed paths with [TS]

  alums who I who makes a lot of music for my videos. Wrote a jingle for the Bradys papercut segment and sent it to us. [TS]

  You've heard I mean I have heard and I have heard it. [TS]

  And then he collaborated with I'm going to try and say this forgive me Newt I think is how you pronounce his name. [TS]

  He's an artist who has been doing some pictures of us previously. [TS]

  He animated them some and they put it together on You Tube So there's a pat Brady's pipe song and film and you star [TS]

  and of course the robot gray and caveman Brady and a lot of people but I see a lot of people not including us. [TS]

  Yeah I think it was really good we put it on the subway for people to talk about. [TS]

  I'll put a link in the show not people to check out and it was it was very cute. [TS]

  Alan is going to writing songs [TS]

  and canoed who I think of in my head as getting into Phish since that's his deviant ART name. [TS]

  Yes it does really cute little diagrams to go along with them so it was really great people to check it out [TS]

  and really will put the link in the show notes. [TS]

  What do you think I mean it's funny that this connects to trial which started with those drawings [TS]

  and then was used in his animation and has now been used by other animators. [TS]

  As the way of animating a service is become your official physical form in the animation which is this kind of glasses [TS]

  wearing robot that goes around like one wheel on the end of a stork or something. [TS]

  What do you what do you think of this betrayal the glasses wearing robot that sounds about right. [TS]

  The one wheel thing is a little weird I'm not sure how or how quite how I feel about that [TS]

  but I can understand from a nation perspective why you would think that it makes it look more interesting [TS]

  and they can make the robot which has no facial expressions at all. [TS]

  Basically it's very expressive robot and I like it does become very expressive in its movements and reaction [TS]

  but I think at the wheel the one wheel is kind of what what makes that [TS]

  and the bendable body so it is it is it is interesting to see how. [TS]

  People end up embodying a character version of you and I don't know if this is exactly comparable [TS]

  but do you have you ever seen or listened to the Ricky Gervais's show yes yes I did and I liked a lot back in the day. [TS]

  So the number I'm thinking of is if I didn't follow this very closely but he he had a pod cast [TS]

  and then it was turned into an animated series. [TS]

  Yeah exactly and I just took that they'll cut costs and company animated them. [TS]

  Yes And so I feel that it's a similar interesting thing because I know with those three guys Ricky Gervais Steve [TS]

  Merchant and Company thank you very much as blanking on his name and what they look like in real life [TS]

  and then they have cartoon versions of themselves and it's a similar kind of thing it's sort of them [TS]

  but it's sort of not them at all and that's a funny thing to have happen. [TS]

  So I am fully in favor of the this kind of robot robot depiction of myself I guess [TS]

  but I still feel like robots can look different whereas cave men. Everybody knows what a cave man looks like. [TS]

  How do you feel about the new Kate. [TS]

  Well I'm not and I guess I deserve it [TS]

  but the funny thing is like this caveman that version of me that canoe does is kind of this oafish you know is he over [TS]

  the side of the karmic they've got the power. [TS]

  That's nice of you to think [TS]

  but the funny thing is that he kind of is this oafish weird not you know I'm not appealing he's not like you dream man [TS]

  and yet he is more attractive looking than I am so I'm actually quite happy with it because I think you may be a better [TS]

  looking so I think I'll take it. [TS]

  The that's the thing I find this because it's also been the second video that was made by another animator. [TS]

  Yes And is it a hey I shouldn't say hey for some reason I think because I saw the name. [TS]

  He O'Shea took a couple of little clips from the pod cast and animated them as well [TS]

  and I found that really interesting to look at as well to see us talking you know with no intent no video intent [TS]

  or anything seeing it turned into a video was quite something as you know was not that dusky is the name he took a [TS]

  bunch of stuff and made a minute long animation out of it and I think it is adorable and surprisingly funny. [TS]

  Yeah when you take the best bits of the show and just condense them down into one minute [TS]

  and add some final animations along with it is probably only about one minute of funniness in the average. [TS]

  Hello Internet podcast. [TS]

  Sounds about right on the right but I think it is condensed to one minute and save us a whole lot of trouble. [TS]

  Yes maybe I have found I sound like I mean we've both been making these You Tube videos for long enough that we've [TS]

  probably gotten used to people who enjoy them contacting us and doing nice things like drawing pictures [TS]

  and things like that to a point where maybe it's no longer a huge novelty but it still looks nice [TS]

  but it's not a huge novelty. But I'm finding people doing it with the podcast. [TS]

  Mike I hope you know who take it like it's like it's like starting again from the very start because they're doing it [TS]

  in different ways and they're drinking it in different ways and I have actually found that not really good fun. [TS]

  I really like that. Oh yeah I am. I'm with you on that. [TS]

  The I think it's also partly just that the podcast is of much smaller scale and it feels much more intimate. [TS]

  Yeah well both in the on the listener's end I mean I can understand that feeling that we've discussed before that [TS]

  when you [TS]

  when you listen to someone on a podcast you feel like you get to know them really well even though you don't [TS]

  and so I can understand that [TS]

  and then we both are actively participating in the conversation that happens on Reddit after each one of these shows [TS]

  and I feel like that is a big part of the show as well as the interaction afterward I mean a number of comments are [TS]

  just are just crazy. [TS]

  But it's very fun to interact and it's and it's fun to see to see this kind of feedback and [TS]

  and yes I am I am much more aware [TS]

  and engaged with the podcast feedback than I am with some of the video feed back to the video feed back just feels so [TS]

  overwhelmingly large. Sometimes it's a little bit hard to. [TS]

  To deal with [TS]

  and there are places where I have consciously turned that off like I've discussed I don't really look at the You Tube [TS]

  comments for example. [TS]

  So it's just a different it's a different experience because it is been very fun seeing seeing the creation that people [TS]

  have [TS]

  or the things I have been surprised that are that are the little running jokes that happened on Twitter where people [TS]

  will you know reference just just an offhanded comment or something [TS]

  but it's that same feeling of oh there's an ongoing little joke in this little corner of the Internet [TS]

  and I really like and I have a lot the one thing I do want to clarify or correct from the paper cuts jingo. [TS]

  There is a line in the song that suggests. [TS]

  But I I do not like it when people know that I have and followed them on Twitter. Oh yeah I am neutral on that. [TS]

  The thing I don't like is when they confront me [TS]

  and ask me why I haven't followed them like a stranger just for the just for the record because you know I could stick [TS]

  with sticklers for that kind of thing here we are. You've written here. Brady Atlas. Oh yes I absolutely love this. [TS]

  You saw this thing you know what I'm talking about I'm not sure I do. It's not OK it's not ringing a bell. [TS]

  Did you see this image. All right hang on the color. Actually I had seen that. OK so I. [TS]

  This this is one of my favorite Mima fied little things that I've seen so far which is it is a scene from Beauty [TS]

  and The Beast. [TS]

  I think I think that's going to stand in the center image where someone it is guessed on the villain [TS]

  but he is in his his wood house and there are antlers all across the walls from all of his his successful hunting's [TS]

  and someone has just pasted your face over Stan's face who is sitting in his chair being very happy [TS]

  and it just says I use antlers in all of my decorating and I think a picture is just great. [TS]

  Briefly if I got this got quite a big laugh out of me. So yes who have ever made that thumbs up. [TS]

  I reckon we can prove I thought it was great I got quite a laugh I showed it to my wife she really laughed [TS]

  and yes I thought that this was just perfect. [TS]

  I'm definitely raising animals from the house before inviting you [TS]

  and your wife if you always misunderstand now because I know what a day you'll be giving each other knowing looks [TS]

  and snickering behind my back I can I can never make you understand my position on this [TS]

  or I think you just intentionally riling me how it is that I don't want to live in my house [TS]

  and perfectly fine to have it was in your house. [TS]

  Actually we were just discussing the other day that from the photos that we have seen you have. [TS]

  An excellent design aesthetic in your house. [TS]

  It just happens to not be our aesthetic but that's because we're different people [TS]

  but it is rare to have a billion seconds that would be like if I met up with you [TS]

  and I said great what you think of my new trousers and you said well they could see you but I wouldn't wear them. [TS]

  There is never a compliment right. [TS]

  I mean it's so genuinely what you are refusing to understand what you think of my new video. [TS]

  Well I think it's a good video for you to make but I would never make that video. [TS]

  I think that's a reasonable thing to say when people make very different videos. [TS]

  Anyway I really like this is on my my favorite pieces of fan art so far. [TS]

  Again I just I still do not I am not comfortable with the word fan [TS]

  but people seem to call it Fan Art I don't know if it's fair or not but it's fun it's not quite like that. [TS]

  I think I think people understand a concern. I know I do. I sometimes try to think of a better word to use than sand. [TS]

  Sometimes I will use the word follower [TS]

  but then that's also weird I don't I don't like that word I mean Jesus had followers. He didn't have fans. [TS]

  Yeah maybe it was fans that he wears and I would love to hear suggestions from people [TS]

  but I don't know maybe this is maybe this is just the uncomfortable ness of being in this position because it doesn't [TS]

  seem like other people have a problem with being fans I will use the word fan to describe myself for things that I [TS]

  really like so I don't know. [TS]

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  and I sent them an email [TS]

  and a link to the dropbox file where they could see the little video that I had made that actual support human got back [TS]

  to me before the file on Dropbox had even finished uploading [TS]

  and this was early in the morning London time which is middle of the night America time. [TS]

  Their support team is so fast that a human will get back to you before your Dropbox file can even upload that you want [TS]

  to show them so it's really really quite impressive the amount of support that you get with square space. [TS]

  So square space is good for everyone whether you need a simple web site solution or you are a developer [TS]

  and want to get into the code and there are so many options and it starts for just eight dollars a month [TS]

  and includes a free domain name if you sign up for a year so start a trial today with no credit card required [TS]

  and build your website and when you decide to sign up for Squarespace make sure to use the offer code hello internet. [TS]

  All one word to get ten percent off and show your support for hello internet Squarespace. [TS]

  Everything you need to create an exceptional website. [TS]

  I feel that we do need to follow up on your scathing unfair review of the movie was it unfair I don't think it was a [TS]

  very well to do or I tell you what if it was unfair. I'll tell you what was unfair it was unfair of you. [TS]

  Knowing that you think this film is a thumbs down it should not be watched [TS]

  and you would recommend not watching it to people that you assigned it I don't know what all of them although as you [TS]

  know you have you know you want to do this. You put words in my mouth. [TS]

  I didn't say that I wouldn't I wouldn't recommend this. [TS]

  I gave it a thumbs down [TS]

  but the whole reason I wanted to talk about is I thought it was an interesting it was an interesting movie to discuss [TS]

  and there are definitely things that you can watch that you don't necessarily like [TS]

  but that you can say are worth watching what's going on. [TS]

  Well what value is a thumbs down if you still think people should watch the film. Well quit. [TS]

  Well first of all the real value of that film wasn't listening to us discuss it later talking about what is the movie [TS]

  to fully enjoy the section where we talk about the movie to fully appreciate our wit and banter. [TS]

  Yes I credibly insightful commentary. [TS]

  You need to really watch the film in order to run that so I didn't I didn't tell people oh go watch this movie it's an [TS]

  awesome movie and also it's homework. [TS]

  People don't always like their homework [TS]

  and that's what this was this was homework assigned to you to watch the movie and I wouldn't do this for a movie that. [TS]

  Oh that is just terrible [TS]

  and has no redeeming value because I say we because we want everyone to watch Transformers three. [TS]

  That's what we're going to do. [TS]

  Difference over three so I wouldn't I wouldn't do that [TS]

  but if I have no problem signing up for homework I feel like I feel no no conflict in this. [TS]

  I still have problem with your thumbs up or thumbs down classification. [TS]

  Yeah I have problems with that too [TS]

  but I I think the number scales for movies can get weirdly arbitrary fast it's hard to it's hard to know what you know [TS]

  as fast as your sky or where you are either in the category of the Raiders of the Lost Ark and Citizen Kane [TS]

  or you get dumped with all the Transformers movies which you know I disagree. [TS]

  You take in the great quest of the cation system is on the exact same level as the Transformers movies it's in. [TS]

  A thumbs down category you know the old hold it together on the same shelf. [TS]

  Oh now explain that I don't have got a grading system that you're not telling me about what's going on here. [TS]

  All right at the top the thumbs up thumbs down thing is a question of of expectations about a movie it is the whole [TS]

  point of it is to not rank all of the movies from Citizen Kane to Transformers that is a fundamentally meaningless [TS]

  endeavor to give you an example of OK here's a movie you know the movie Armageddon with Bruce Willis from the late [TS]

  ninety's. I've been thinking about that family because I just made a video about the probe that's gone to the comma. [TS]

  So I've been thinking about that family. I love that film. [TS]

  It's OK and I love it that well that is a movie I would give thumbs up Dharma get [TS]

  but because I think it is better than no you know if you know what I'm trying I don't. [TS]

  I can't know what I think until you tell me what you're trying to say. [TS]

  My feeling of the thumbs up thumbs down thing is you are looking at a movie. It is called Armageddon. [TS]

  Bruce Willis is on the front and it's about a comet smashing into the earth. [TS]

  You have some notion that maybe this is not going to be an entirely serious movie [TS]

  and you are going to watch that movie to be just straight up entertained [TS]

  and I think that Armageddon succeeds in that mightily. I really like Armageddon. [TS]

  Honest to God I get emotionally moved at the president's speech at the end of the movie every time I think it is a [TS]

  great I want to cheer their presence on the yeah you're right you know every impossible reach for the stars that [TS]

  brought a story like this is great her like i'm glad i think i don't know it's totally down. [TS]

  I [TS]

  but the movie just movies are so funny in this way that that they can sometimes sweep you away despite despite yourself [TS]

  because. On an intellectual level I can know. Boy this movie is really dumb. [TS]

  Boy nothing is even remotely scientifically accurate in this movie or these things would never happen this way. [TS]

  But there's tons of stuff where I just don't care. [TS]

  The ridiculous training montage in Armageddon you know what I love it every time it's stupid what are they even doing [TS]

  it doesn't make any sense. [TS]

  I don't care at all and it's impossible to say why some movies pull it off [TS]

  and other movies don't if I give that movie a thumbs up. It is successful at being what it is. [TS]

  So you're saying it's a bit like if Tiger Woods shoots around the Gulf in seventy six. [TS]

  He's had a bad day [TS]

  and if I got around a ninety five I've had a miracle day so I deserve more credit than Tiger Woods for exceeding [TS]

  expectations. I have I don't know what any to make them to start of the Senate and anything. [TS]

  Because you're saying like it's like if a little kid makes a finger painting you say well done [TS]

  and now you know that it has an off day. [TS]

  You're like well that's just not as good as your usual stuff because I say thumbs down here where the kid gets a thumbs [TS]

  up. Now kids are different kids are different I've never seen a kid do something impressive. [TS]

  They're always showing you things. It's not impressive. [TS]

  I've seen better paintings in that kid though a look at this is great no it isn't it's not good. [TS]

  I feel it's so clear in my mind the only other thing that I would want to add to the thumbs up thumbs down thing is a [TS]

  mess. [TS]

  Like the bunch of movies you just don't care I don't like your problem with her is that it was nearly a it was nearly [TS]

  It was nearly life changing [TS]

  and because it didn't quite get your like SAG Well I don't want anything to do with you old [TS]

  and because you because you were nearly great whereas because Armageddon wasn't nearly great you're like OK well you [TS]

  didn't you didn't you didn't tase me. That's not that's that's not too inaccurate. [TS]

  I find that stuff more frustrating the almost perfect stuff is way more frustrating than just total garbage that you [TS]

  don't care about. [TS]

  Or things that are indifferent and so yes I think for me a movie like that it is aiming very high [TS]

  and in my estimation fails at what it is aiming at [TS]

  and so Thumbs Down movie some down of course handing by it of course the reason you watch this film in the first place [TS]

  was because Mrs Gray put it on and we have had to do was ask what it means [TS]

  when I think of what I saw I saw people in the road ask about that because we didn't bring that we did mention that [TS]

  your wife liked it more than you did I think it's fair. Yes she loves it. [TS]

  I'll tell you something else about halfway back in a minute but let's see what Mrs Gray thought. [TS]

  Yes So this is actually just listen to Episode seventeen the other day [TS]

  and her as did as did a number of her opinion was she just thought I was being too kind. [TS]

  And I said on the right that which I think is true is that her son's down makes my thumbs down look like an [TS]

  enthusiastic thumbs up if you think I didn't like this movie. [TS]

  She really didn't like this movie much much more in tensely than myself. [TS]

  She thinks I am being far too kind to the movie [TS]

  and want to have all of you had almost just an inarticulate ball of rage at this movie as well as a as a ho as a woman [TS]

  who is not only in a relationship is married to I'm ashamed I have to respect her opinion. [TS]

  Do you know what my wife pointed out something that neither of us noticed about the film which I think makes it even [TS]

  clever she thinks the fact that Scarlett Johannson ended up being like she was that kind of Hi How you doing girlfriend. [TS]

  touching rather than object or a mouse or a tree and read you going to be at the shops at three thirty P.M. [TS]

  Pick up milk [TS]

  and the fact that that's what Scarlett Johanson became is actually the beauty of the operating system the operating [TS]

  systems become adapted to the people they were serving and became the people they're saving Nate and [TS]

  when you're a sad lonely guy who's a bit romantic [TS]

  and has just coming out of a break up exactly what sia donated at that time was just like a girlfriend. [TS]

  And there's a few things cooked into the film that hint. [TS]

  Because when you see the relationship between Amy Adams and her operating system that she uses in her time of need. [TS]

  Harris is like a body like a mate and my wife is saying and that's exactly what women are like [TS]

  when women go through a breakup. [TS]

  They kind of just want like a mate to they can joke around with and talk about how rubbish men [TS]

  and that's exactly what an operating system becomes famous Adams Theodore like man you know kind of a bit more. [TS]

  I kind of I think you know you seek a new relationship and want to feel loved and attractive [TS]

  and that's exactly what his operating system became And there's another hint to that earlier in the film [TS]

  when Theodore before he has the operating system is going through that kind of. [TS]

  Dating dating process and he's going through all the voices and he's skipping all the certain genres of women [TS]

  and then there's a certain one comes on that takes his fancy and eat and he talks to that one [TS]

  and that one is very much like what Scarlett Johannson becomes so it's almost like earlier in the film they're setting [TS]

  up the idea that the operating system is already going to know what he wants and what appeals to him [TS]

  and mold itself to that earlier history and I thought that was an interesting observation. [TS]

  Whether it's Russian I don't know but it was something we didn't discuss you know we didn't discuss it [TS]

  but I thought that was I mean that was the whole point of the the set up process like Johanson is based on those [TS]

  initial questions of the computer reading. [TS]

  Yes I know we talked about the fact that it taps to him but in such a specific way. [TS]

  But the stuff with Amy Adams passed me by the fact that her relationship to the operating system was completely [TS]

  different and much more. Anyway development another there are operating systems that totally hate their users. [TS]

  Yeah as background I'm not for everybody but there are a few people recommended things to watch that we should watch. [TS]

  Afterwards one of them was a series of television programs that had a while ago in the U.K. [TS]

  and That they're produced by a guy called Charlie Brooker who I'm a really big fan of his his writing [TS]

  and his television work [TS]

  and he was behind the series called Black Mirror which was a series of sort of forty five minute programs each [TS]

  self-contained and each a kind of little pace sort of other reflecting society on looking forward on society [TS]

  and looking at some of the darker aspects of society hence the Black Mirror and obviously I had seen them before. [TS]

  I think maybe you hadn't but have since. [TS]

  Yeah I hadn't seen them and this was well done in the Reddit where people recommended them [TS]

  but this is exactly what you should do if you want we actually want something they recommended something [TS]

  but basically didn't describe it at all because that that is not what I really want in a recommendation [TS]

  and what I'm looking for is an aggregate number of recommendations [TS]

  and so in the discussion I noticed that a whole bunch of people mentioned Black Mirror [TS]

  and also didn't say anything about it. [TS]

  It is you should watch black mare [TS]

  and I happen to have one night to myself for I thought all the people mentioned this the other day I'm tired of doing [TS]

  the work. Let me let me try this out and I don't know the try the broker was involved I knew nothing about this. [TS]

  I just put it on and I thought these were. Rates they were they were really really captivating. [TS]

  Did you watch like o three in the first series or what once did you watch. [TS]

  Yes I I watched all of them over the course of two days I just basically binged it especially because these are these [TS]

  are episodes it's really like almost like a modern Twilight Zone this is the closest thing that I can say [TS]

  and if you know that you also know that knowing anything about any of the episodes would just totally ruin it [TS]

  and so as soon as I saw the first couple and I thought Man these are great. [TS]

  Suddenly I'm worried about spoilers [TS]

  and so I thought well I have to watch all of them right now because I'm just going to be worried that I'm going to [TS]

  accidentally run into a spoiler for one of these things. [TS]

  But I've started watching should we not talk about it too much now and maybe set a voluntary homework [TS]

  and talk about another time or do you want to talk about them now because I haven't. [TS]

  Having said what you just said that people shouldn't be told about them before watching it. [TS]

  I'll have that people skip for a few minutes maybe or pause [TS]

  and watch like we'll talk about it so part of the plot laughed at me or the people of this piece back in six hours. [TS]

  I think people do that in the last episode. [TS]

  People said they were listening and we got to the hair part I posed and went and watched [TS]

  and then came back in this into the second half of the podcast I can see that people have the self-restraint to do that [TS]

  and I'm quite surprised so I know I guess this does not mean we can talk about some of the episode a little bit later [TS]

  but the the one that I just I think it is worth following up. Is it an episode called Be back soon and I think it is. [TS]

  Episode one of season two. Probably haven't watched that one that I haven't watched series to I'll come on. [TS]

  Yeah sorry man I watched season one and I even write what I sent you the titles of the ones to watch. [TS]

  What did you think was going on. Now forget now we have to stop. OK now it is homework. Thank you. [TS]

  I'm sorry I'm sorry everywhere that I have known [TS]

  but I saw that this is not that mirror anymore by the way I've run this is the movie I have saying that may be quite [TS]

  long ago now that I saw that when it was quite nice. My memory of it is hazy but that's OK. [TS]

  Others I mentioned briefly that I think it is interesting follow up this is the other thing there were two things that [TS]

  people mentioned all the time one was black mirror and there was moon. [TS]

  Yet people gave a little too much information about moon [TS]

  when trying to recommend it I think people just don't aren't sensitive to how little information can be spoilers. [TS]

  Yes but unfortunately I had actually seen the trailer for moon a long time ago [TS]

  and I am cursed with this terrible memory in general but I can remember every So every single scene in a trailer [TS]

  and then when I watched the movie My brain is just counting down the scenes that I haven't seen yet [TS]

  and I have just had that ruined so many movies for me where I just seen a single freaking clip [TS]

  and then it just rushes everything like Attack The Block with an alien movie takes place in the U.K. [TS]

  and There was a single frame that I saw by accident once about it [TS]

  and then the whole movie I'm waiting for that frame which of course is that the editors anyway. [TS]

  It's amazing what can ruin a film tell you because sometimes people just saying I love the film it's got like such a [TS]

  good ending. I'm not. [TS]

  Only that you know even that is ruining something because maybe [TS]

  when you're watching it you could have a really bad ending happening so I want that to still be on the table [TS]

  when I'm watching a film. [TS]

  Yeah this is this is also I think I've mentioned it before [TS]

  but the frustrating thing of people saying oh this is a great movie and it has a twist. [TS]

  That's a spoiler but telling someone there's a twist is ruining the twist it doesn't matter. [TS]

  Heaven forbid if they were the people who recommended moon a little too much information in those recommendations [TS]

  people but I had seen the trailer so I didn't mind. [TS]

  But just as a quick obvious spoilers for moon coming up here [TS]

  but a quick little follow up that I thought was interesting to mention is. [TS]

  There I was complaining about too much computer racism. [TS]

  At the end of the last of her where you have the voices in movies that are computers are generally the villains [TS]

  or computers are usually the villains in movies and moon did a very interesting take on that [TS]

  and the brief set up is that there is a guy and he is working on this moon base all by himself [TS]

  and there is a robot that is working along side of him and the robot is Kevin Spacey [TS]

  and basically this movie I thought did a really good job of using your expectation that the robot is going to be the [TS]

  villain against you in the movie. Thank you. [TS]

  You are waiting for this robot voiced by Kevin Spacey which is voiced in this very monotone way to turn evil. [TS]

  And he never does. But they clearly play with your expectations. [TS]

  I thought I thought it was interesting and it was really well done [TS]

  and what I really liked this is just for future writers of robots. [TS]

  What I cannot stand in robot [TS]

  or computer movies is the other comical the absurd moment where the the computer outgrows programming [TS]

  or you know like suddenly develops feelings or something dumb like that and I think well I guess it's not a robot [TS]

  and I guess it's magic to this it suddenly changes the whole nature of the story. [TS]

  What I really liked in Moon was that they kept things consistent that from the robot's perspective it was programmed to [TS]

  assist the main character. [TS]

  And it turns out that it is assisting the main character in in a way that seems to be operating against what is there [TS]

  to do but I thought it was handled perfectly the robot never does anything inconsistent. [TS]

  Yeah things like Oh my my job is is to help the main character and that's what I'm going to do [TS]

  and he really does help the main character [TS]

  and it's it was a really kind of touching little emotional response to this robot especially because that movie. [TS]

  Again highlighted in some ways the robot isn't different but he is also just there to help [TS]

  and he was to help Sam Rockwell So anyway people recommended moon. [TS]

  I liked it I thought it was good very very good film. Do you know what that's there and a follow up. [TS]

  Actually I actually I don't if you want to talk about this I have a question for you. [TS]

  Wow And you're a great journalist journalist you don't have to answer that you don't want to but I am curious. [TS]

  I'm you know people. Suddenly everything is turned right around it's like the robots have grown. I'm curious. [TS]

  People may not know this but you do not swear I do not. [TS]

  Well there are it depends on your definition of swearing [TS]

  but there are there are there are certain words I say that people would consider a swear word [TS]

  but most of the classic swear words the classic I don't [TS]

  and have never said not even once so I am I am curious as to why this is or what is what is your reasoning behind this. [TS]

  They each know that Congress is no reasoning like the reason I don't do it now I suspect liken taken straight into the [TS]

  cellar. [TS]

  My wife sometimes I go on just say you know what I am aware as you say the word I am going to say just once for me [TS]

  because she swears a bit and say she she would find it funny if I saw [TS]

  and I'm just like no I don't do it because once I do like I can't I've lost that little I've lost the streak of having [TS]

  never said that word and when you say never you mean never from childhood never. [TS]

  Yeah I guess I mean you know I was probably I was probably a good boy and tell him not to swear when I was young [TS]

  and I was quiet. [TS]

  He just listened and you know my my mum was a formidable person so I would probably would not at least. [TS]

  One thing that she didn't want me to do [TS]

  and you know of all the of all the things that most things I was told not to do was a little boy I did eventually [TS]

  but that's just one that I didn't and I still don't. [TS]

  So that's where you know there are some words like I said there are some words that would be classified as a swear word [TS]

  I will say the other Swear words are remarkably and of us. [TS]

  Yeah as I discovered [TS]

  when making podcasts Apple has a requirement that you label a podcast explicit if certain words are spoken [TS]

  but there is no official list anywhere. Leave it up to you because I know what the words are. [TS]

  Well this is actually quite a funny thing that's happened to me that I've I. [TS]

  We should probably talk about this to say that you know that I have recently had issues with comments on the videos [TS]

  were outside of that I've had enough of people being abusive to my contributors and doing inappropriate things. [TS]

  So I started getting comments [TS]

  but there is a mechanism on You Tube where you can create a blacklist of words that come to eventing [TS]

  and the other comments go through a little. [TS]

  So I've been doing a bit of testing of that to see whether or not that will help some of these problems in the bud. [TS]

  So I'll let comments go on [TS]

  but if words on this list appear now come to May first just to to take to make sure they're not being used in a way [TS]

  they shouldn't be used to you know. Some racist or offensive or abusive stuff. [TS]

  So as as a result of doing that I'm having to keep a list of words which I'm constantly adding to [TS]

  and as I look at comments and look at the way that people can be abusive in the things they say [TS]

  when they're abusive I will try and pluck out the key words from that [TS]

  and add them to this list so I can come up with this list of you know what words of flight were unacceptable words [TS]

  unacceptable words. [TS]

  Some of them can be unacceptable in strange ways and could be very specific to the people in the video. [TS]

  So I have got this list of just called up now and I can't rate it because the words other words I wouldn't say [TS]

  but I've got this funniness that if anyone ever walks past my computer [TS]

  and I've got them on a sticky note at the moment one of those happens I think if anyone ever comes it might stick in X. [TS]

  I've got this one sticking off to the side which is just this stream of stream of every rude word you could think of I [TS]

  like this. [TS]

  Interlinked with other strange words like you know a missing piece [TS]

  or something because some people making some comments that were inappropriate. [TS]

  There are a few other words so it's an interesting person who does not swear has a constant visual reminder of all of [TS]

  that and is like copying and pasting this list everywhere and rating over time and saying [TS]

  and I guess I still I still feel a bit unsatisfied with your answer though is it is it entirely just the streak you [TS]

  don't want to break the streak. I feel they can't that can't be the whole reason. [TS]

  Do you know what I'm really struggling to answer not for lack of not not out of any kind of cautiousness [TS]

  or privacy it's just I mean I think I think for a lot of people swear words are just words they say [TS]

  when they can't think of something better to say that that's not that doesn't mean I think I'm like you know too clever [TS]

  to swear and in fact sometimes a well used swear word is very funny [TS]

  and I sometimes wish I had some of those words in my arsenal [TS]

  when I was making a joke because it could it could add a certain amount of impact to funniness But so there is a part [TS]

  of me that thinks the swearing is like unnecessary because I can usually think of what I want to say without swearing [TS]

  but what kind of an answer tonight. I think I'm fairly kind of moral and you know you think it is immoral. [TS]

  Well no no I don't think it's immoral to swear. All of my friends swear and I think well you swear words are funny. [TS]

  I'm never offended by other people swearing at all as this is what I am sometimes suddenly self-conscious around you. [TS]

  If we meet up. You hardly ever swear you are of your very last where really I feel like I am. [TS]

  I swear more than I would like to know but usually you swear so infrequently that [TS]

  when you swear I even notice that you swore that's how you do notice so I should feel that I don't notice that I don't [TS]

  notice [TS]

  when a lot of my other friends swear because I swear all the time that you do a certain frequency that's like our greatest [TS]

  wear hats or does not like it I think it really is just Strake. I think it is just like it's like a novelty. [TS]

  Like what happens when you really hurt yourself though [TS]

  and if you drop a hammer on your toe that's not those was never occurred to me to say. [TS]

  Like people always say that I can believe in you hell you so if you don't swear. Well it's like that never. [TS]

  I'm much more likely to say gee whiz [TS]

  or Galileo just because they are the words that come then who is that automatically come to me I don't think the swear [TS]

  words are like in grade D.N.A. [TS]

  So I don't think it's like the natural thing to do I think it's a learned I think swear words are a learned thing [TS]

  and and because I haven't learned I don't I don't know but I don't. Have a problem with. [TS]

  I don't it's no big deal it's not a big deal to me and anyway [TS]

  and for me it's just like it's like a novelty now so I said I want to. [TS]

  Precisely because as I said I do feel uncomfortable sometimes we're talking about [TS]

  and if i swear i'm suddenly aware of a rise you to guidance where you know it might be in your head you have a little [TS]

  moral checklist you go marital Absolutely and I know and trust me I have many many vices that are worse and swearing [TS]

  and I would say oh now that now. OK enough with the swearing in. [TS]

  What is your worst vice I mean like I think I think swearing is not a big deal. [TS]

  I don't encourage I don't encourage it and I don't think it would encourage like you know a child to start swearing [TS]

  but I have. I'm quite neutral. [TS]

  I'm not like you know somebody's goody two shoes person who thinks Swearing is a bad thing. [TS]

  I just happen to not do it just like I think a lawn bowls is a perfectly legitimate sport [TS]

  but I just I play so well that I would watch on T.V. I don't know much about lawn bowls. [TS]

  Sounds really exciting you know exciting. OK All right. I was curious. [TS]

  Well and that was that was her thinking that if you told me you must tell me your advice [TS]

  and then you just blow off the question I didn't get an answer. [TS]

  Well I mean you know there are some questions that people just said but you know you brought it back [TS]

  when you weren't happy with the answer the first time I went What was the worst vice that you'd be willing to admit on [TS]

  say a podcast. Well the one I was thinking of when I said that was a thing badly. [TS]

  I would I would happily stop swearing if it meant I was able to have the self-control to not eat rubbish that is a [TS]

  boring face. Thumbs down. I want a different vice a little gluttony as not interesting. [TS]

  Well either of us as I am I can be quite lazy. [TS]

  I can protest and I'm not impressed when we're [TS]

  when we're off the air I want to hear about the worst life that you will what's the worst advice you did me too [TS]

  and I missed a secret he won't even tell us what's on his checklist. [TS]

  I don't know I think I think maybe it's a problem with the word vice I don't know I mean I've got a huge cocaine [TS]

  problem if I want to get fat is exactly what I'm interested in. All right now let's talk about the life. [TS]

  All I did and I didn't really think about the past but if you want to hear about that that's my that's my mind. [TS]

  What's your worst boss I don't know I'm not sure I I think I am suddenly realizing that this is a problem with the word [TS]

  vice. [TS]

  Things Everyone can be kind of lazy and unproductive [TS]

  and those those are the things I would often say I dislike about myself the most is is [TS]

  when I'm not being optimally productive about stuff. But is that a vice. [TS]

  I don't know if that's a that's a vice [TS]

  or you know maybe I can end up sometimes playing video games longer than I should. That's that's kind of a got me vice. [TS]

  You know I don't do cooking them so I don't want to clear that up just in case people are thinking that we have just in [TS]

  case this is tentative evidence I do not take drugs. You know I've never even smoked a cigarette. [TS]

  Look at you and you have you ever smoked a cigarette. [TS]

  I am shockingly boring in this way I have I have never done any illegal drugs and I have never smoked cigarettes [TS]

  and now I would feel like the risk reward scenario [TS]

  and that was never profitable so I will say also I was never cool enough in high school to be in a whole picture. [TS]

  So certainly you are you asking all the time as would be given to you. [TS]

  Well look I guess you and we are going to be hanging out today at the library [TS]

  and yeah not a lot of underage drinking and smoking cigarettes and doing blow at the library the rest of a lot of my [TS]

  and your parent your parents are not really worried about you I'm really worried about him you know he's just all he's [TS]

  doing is reading today he's not doing drugs he's not I'm going to with the cool kids that actually that actually. [TS]

  It was and it was my friend's concern that he's just not socializing [TS]

  and what are you going to do some drugs that can feel a lot better if you were more popular. [TS]

  We're getting into more trouble but shockingly boring. [TS]

  Well we're poor [TS]

  and honest we are going to see that that is the bottom line I think I think the fact we've been talking for an hour [TS]

  and forty five minutes we haven't even talked of anything it is an indication of how we have to talk about something if [TS]

  you want to talk about monkey copyright. [TS]

  Let's talk about monkey couple OK let's pick something that's not the follow up we could at least have one thing to [TS]

  talk about I want to talk about monkey copy I did enjoy a little after school special. [TS]

  SAY NO TO DRUGS section and don't swear. Although I'm sure that was the conclusion to draw but it was boring people. [TS]

  It was it was more kind of US regressing not doing drugs more than I only I was cooler. [TS]

  Tell me about monkey copier you know that you know the guy at the center of this story you're about to know that she [TS]

  lives in my little patch of England here so me I guess I'm showing a bit of parochial an affair because I guess lots of [TS]

  people live in London and every time some big knock when there's a story about the prime minister on T.V. [TS]

  You know he lives in the same city as me. This is my local this is my local news sort of background shining through. [TS]

  If some someone is in an international story [TS]

  and they're from like my patch of the world it's suddenly a more important story. [TS]

  If you ever look up a place on Wikipedia you always know that the place is not a place [TS]

  when the Wikipedia article about it has a section that isn't titled notable people from. [TS]

  I'm always really aware of that because basically any place is a place that doesn't have a notable people from San [TS]

  Francisco. If they don't include that because there's a billion people from San Francisco that they give you. [TS]

  Often if you have to enumerate the people from your place is not a notable big snob. [TS]

  My big snob that's when I snobby I think though I think that's just true. [TS]

  If a place is a real huge place you can't possibly list of notable people from it just because there are millions of [TS]

  people what a ridiculous thing to say. What do you mean an absolutely ridiculous thing to say I think it's a truism. [TS]

  Are you saying that the town of Grantham in Lincolnshire is not a place. Is that what you're saying. [TS]

  Granted it's the tan that Margaret Thatcher came from. Oh yeah yeah. [TS]

  Rent them but it's not a place according to you it doesn't exist. I'm looking it up. Notable people there. [TS]

  I'm not you know I'm not saying it doesn't exist. Yes I saw you said it's not a place. [TS]

  Let me let me try to refine my thinking about it. Sound of a no no I guess what I mean is the only hope for the better. [TS]

  Man I'm going to look up at will I heard notable people I like at the very top of the list they have a serial killer [TS]

  from Grantham who beats out Margaret Thatcher. [TS]

  Beverley applet serial killer from Grant I'm not going to have a head of a English serial killer who convicted [TS]

  convicted of murdering four children [TS]

  and attempting to murder three others causing grievous bodily harm to a further six children. [TS]

  Margaret Thatcher may get on a developing Adelaide where I'm from that's OK doesn't have a notable people. [TS]

  OK OK OK I says Isaac Newton is from Grantham yesterday. OK OK OK this is mostly by you know by the serial killer. [TS]

  Well she's at the top of the list. [TS]

  OK OK This is my feeling about the notable people section which Pedia its purpose seems to build up the place that it [TS]

  is describing. But for me it has the exact opposite effect it diminishes the place by feeling the. [TS]

  Need to list the notable people that come from it. [TS]

  I think that is that is the more articulate version of the feeling that it gives me that that is fair enough [TS]

  and a little bit less than a little bit less. I live in London and nobody else matters but I'm not from London. [TS]

  I guess that's the feeling that I have about this. [TS]

  I don't mean it in a snob in a snobbish way I just think that that that section always seems to do the opposite of what [TS]

  it is intending to do that by the very fact of saying look at all the notable people from this place in my mind it [TS]

  makes me feel like that place is less notable not more notable and I care. I understand the logic of what you say. [TS]

  I see another side to that. I do see another side to that as well. [TS]

  Like where could say despite despite not having the advantage of a huge swarming population we still have produced [TS]

  people that are able to make it on the world stage so I think that saying look. [TS]

  Look we we are indeed small [TS]

  but we still pack a punch which you couldn't argue with that something only a small party would say [TS]

  and always with these notable people's actions what I'm really curious about is how many of these notable people lived [TS]

  in that place as opposed to how many of them were born there and then left after high school [TS]

  and then all have the notable thing came later. [TS]

  But that's what I would really like is there any notable people who also spent their entire life in this place. [TS]

  Section I think it's a little weird that a place gets to lay claim to somebody because they you know they happen to pop [TS]

  into existence in this location and maybe didn't spend a whole lot of time there. [TS]

  But anyway that's a whole separate issue as we talk about monkey copyright [TS]

  and then you created me somehow I think is what happened. [TS]

  So this guy I told you that the guy at the center of monkey monkey copyright was from like know even from the town I'm [TS]

  from just from this section of England news so you know the guys. [TS]

  Now if I had pulled up I tried to be prepared and I pulled up some links before and I seem to have lost all of them [TS]

  or my other well OK OK So I want I knew which I tried to parrot a little. Prepare a little bit and so here we go. [TS]

  So for those unaware the basic story is this guy David Slater who is a nature photographer in two thousand [TS]

  and eleven went to Indonesia and he was there to do wildlife photography and the interesting thing that happened is [TS]

  when he was there basically some monkeys handled his camera equipment [TS]

  and ended up taking pictures of themselves with his camera and he Sophie's basically yeah it's a monkey selfie [TS]

  and take great pictures that are amazing that I have to say the one picture that this is really primarily about I'll [TS]

  put a link to in the stone people to death [TS]

  and look it is an amazing photograph that this monkey took of himself he had he has a smile he has these striking red [TS]

  eyes. [TS]

  It is just a really striking photographs and the guy has a few more on his Web site [TS]

  but it's about one photograph in particular they are just amazing. [TS]

  But the question the question about this is does the photographer David Slater own the copyright to this image or not. [TS]

  And I saw this happen in two thousand and eleven [TS]

  when the story first broke in a bunch of newspapers are posting it primarily to say looking this amazing photograph [TS]

  this monkey selfie. Yeah you know it's a cute photograph. [TS]

  But what has happened is it has escalated which is that is actually going to court because he is contending the [TS]

  photographers claim that. [TS]

  The copyright belongs to him because we Kapadia it's become like a lookup eighty A picture has an affair. [TS]

  So if it's on Wikimedia Commons which is a resource that I use all the time to try and find public domain [TS]

  and certain kinds of creative commons images and they listed on Wikipedia as being able to be used. [TS]

  Now the funny version of this story which I'm going to say almost certainly a whole bunch of times throughout this [TS]

  but is not really true. [TS]

  The headline in newspapers who don't care to fact check things is that the argument is that the monkey owns the [TS]

  copyright to your picture because you took his own picture [TS]

  and you will see this headline in careless newspapers who are uninterested in the truth [TS]

  and are more interested in selling newspapers the actual the actual argument is that the photograph is public domain [TS]

  because there is no author of the photograph that was really what you were guilty of this headline we started to talk [TS]

  about it and you said let's talk about monkey copyright. Yes that's exactly right. So I am not a newspaper now. [TS]

  Straight out this is not true [TS]

  but I'm still going to talk about monkey copyright because I am tickled by the notion of a monkey owning the copyright [TS]

  to an image I think this is a fascinating fascinating question about whether what is the copyright of this image does [TS]

  it go to the photographer or. Go to the monkey or does it go to nobody. [TS]

  You seems like you familiar with the story do you have any initial thoughts about this. [TS]

  You think the monkey gets a copyright nobody is the copyright he is the copyright What do you think I think he should [TS]

  get the copyright. Why do you think that just fills the field. [TS]

  What happened he left the the monkey picked up the camera. [TS]

  He didn't intend for the monkey to pick up the camera to take that monkey just did it or did [TS]

  or was he trying to trick the monkey into doing it because he thought it would be a cool picture. [TS]

  I'm not one hundred percent clear but from what I've read it reads like he's left unattended in the monkey just played. [TS]

  I mean if he tried to trick the monkey into doing it and so this would be classic and you know [TS]

  and did a certain behavior a number of times hoping the monkey would copy it. [TS]

  Then I definitely think the copyright is his. [TS]

  If the monkey just picked it up of its own volition he didn't intend [TS]

  or expect it to happen I think it becomes a gray area. [TS]

  This is I'm calling on my extensive study on your copyright law here [TS]

  but my underlying like just gut feeling is that it should belong to him because I feel like it should belong to someone [TS]

  and if it's going to belong to anyone I have to come to him and it should belong to him. [TS]

  But why that's the case I cannot say. Maybe it's not the case. I don't and what do you what what's your feeling on it. [TS]

  Yes it's interesting because I was trying to pull up his his web page and. [TS]

  I have what is currently his web page now but you can also go to the Wayback Machine [TS]

  and he's changed the wording on his website about the situation. [TS]

  It originally is not really described very well [TS]

  but then there are newspaper reports of him talking about leaving the camera equipment around [TS]

  and then the monkey takes the picture. Yep and then the current description is A is A. [TS]

  I don't think he's doing this as an on purpose but it's a bit ambiguous as as to what happens [TS]

  but it sounds much more like he was intentionally leaving the equipment around for the monkey to take the picture. [TS]

  Now I can certainly see how that story would help his case. [TS]

  Right [TS]

  but it's funny because the impression that I get is that this this story gained ground in the first place with the monkey [TS]

  selfie version of it. Yeah and then it becomes a legal problem and now there is this description which is of. [TS]

  Him taking a much more active role [TS]

  and I think both of those things can be true it can be true to describe it as a monkey selfie [TS]

  and it can also be true that he set it up so that the monkeys could take selfies [TS]

  but I'm not saying that he's changing his story [TS]

  or it's just either way tales are relevant do you think the circumstance changes the copyright situation. [TS]

  The pictures like I said maybe it would. [TS]

  So it's funny because my I think this makes me think of is my wife and I used to be very avid photographers [TS]

  and kind of competitive about it. [TS]

  We did a couple road trips across America and we would often compete to get the better photograph. [TS]

  Yeah [TS]

  and I think I was very natural in couples I think to think that they had a they had a master photographer in the other [TS]

  ones and my wife is definitely not a photographer [TS]

  and I was always hugely frustrated because I would take ten thousand photographs and try to get one good photograph [TS]

  and then she would just casually like oh this looks good. Click one perfect beautiful means no retouching. [TS]

  So she was always just great about it but we we had a rule that the copyright. [TS]

  Belongs to the person camera so she uses my camera at the copyright for that image is mine [TS]

  and if I use her camera the copyright is hers because honestly we just grab stuff was that I said was that to avoid [TS]

  arguments later ever who took the picture. [TS]

  That's exactly this is the only reasonable rule even if it doesn't strictly make sense we just have to leave this down [TS]

  as a couple How could you have photos that you're having like as is just a bidding war every time you go take a photo [TS]

  that might not like us [TS]

  but you have to lay down the rules we need to make it clear about what happened with photographs that all couples lay [TS]

  down your rules about these things. [TS]

  So anyway so this is a question that we went with the yeah the copyright resides with the equipment for different [TS]

  reasons but for different reasons but but but I think this is this is just so interesting [TS]

  and it is my my my gut reaction. Just a fun reaction is I want the monkey to have the coffee. [TS]

  Right this image that's just great I love the idea about this. [TS]

  Why are we being so human centric with this notion that only humans can have copyrights to their works cannot the [TS]

  monkey own the copyright to his selfie do not the whales own the copyright to their music. [TS]

  It seems like we should be so human centric in these things but if I was if I was a judge and I was sitting down [TS]

  and I go OK OK Everybody we have to be we have to be serious about this now. [TS]

  Yeah what is the situation I would say that the same thing that taking this guy's description at his word. [TS]

  He set up a scenario under which this might occur. [TS]

  And so he should own the copyright to the image even if he was not the one pressing the shutter. [TS]

  What if it's not not even this case just what if someone had their pick their camera picked up [TS]

  and just taken by the monkey like a tourist had their i Phone snatched and took a picture. [TS]

  Do you think that's different and that person wouldn't then own the copyright. [TS]

  Yeah this is this is why it's such a difficult thing I don't know. [TS]

  And I actually saw this happen at the at the London Zoo. [TS]

  They have this this big open area where you can walk in the center [TS]

  and there's a whole bunch of monkeys in this is this is a few years ago [TS]

  and they have these big signs everywhere saying don't take out your phones [TS]

  or your cameras the monkeys love to steal them. [TS]

  I thought some tourist took out their phone to take a picture of these little adorable monkeys [TS]

  and he just swung down from the tree and grabbed it and ran off with delight at his new toy [TS]

  and I don't know if people forget animals a fast art Mantell an animal does something you don't expect us to do it you [TS]

  don't realize that a bit quicker than us. [TS]

  Yes that's exactly it hymns we have we have no advantages to living in nature [TS]

  and monkey you're never going to catch that monkey in a million years. [TS]

  But you're also never going to see it coming you think I'll have a monkey makes a move for my camera. [TS]

  I'll just put it away and it won't now. But they're so quick your reaction times are so slow. [TS]

  Yeah it's like the monkeys in Gibraltar if you go on You Tube you can find a million hilarious clips of the monkeys [TS]

  pickpocketing everything [TS]

  and apparently the only reason they do it is because it is funny that this is how the monkeys past a time. [TS]

  If they know that it's a big reaction out of people and they just love it so monkeys are nothing but trouble [TS]

  but good photographers look at restaurants so yeah. [TS]

  Here think if you go with a situation where the copyright resides with the equipment there's an interesting problem [TS]

  with that which is talking about. [TS]

  OK well does that mean [TS]

  when people use photo booths that the photo booth owns the copyrights to the image that the company that set up a photo [TS]

  booth they actually own the copyright to images taken inside a photo booth. [TS]

  I think there's some weird situations about having copyright reside with equipment that is that is used. [TS]

  And here is a scenario that I think of as the most interesting version I imagine this was not a monkey. [TS]

  Imagine that this guy was reaching some and contacted peoples. So in Brazil there are and contacted human tribes. [TS]

  If this whole scenario happened. [TS]

  But he was just with a tribe that had no experience with technology and so had no expectation of what a camera does [TS]

  and does basically what these monkeys did which was looking at their reflection in the lens and pressing the buttons. [TS]

  I think if it's if it's an uncontracted person that human should get the copyright to the image even if the [TS]

  photographer is setting up the whole situation so that it would happen even if the person doesn't have any idea like a [TS]

  monkey what's going to happen when they press the button. [TS]

  They should have the copyright to that so I find copyright residing with equipment problematic you know reminds me of a [TS]

  story that I've known for many years [TS]

  but I now look at it in a whole new light because of what we've just been talking about [TS]

  and there is a guy I used to work with in Australia was [TS]

  and still is one of the world's best cricket photographers you know photographing games of cricket. [TS]

  He's excellent He's like you know he's the best in the world in my opinion. And hey you stay at cricket matches. [TS]

  He would have his camera. [TS]

  I would say in all the different places around the ground where he thought he would get the best angles [TS]

  and the best sports shots but he would also set up a second camera at the top of a grandstand looking down [TS]

  and he would he would fix on a tripod [TS]

  and set it at the part of the the ground where the batsman was where the action was most likely to happen. [TS]

  Kind of home plate in baseball you know he would have a just a good shot of home plate like the cricket equivalent [TS]

  and he would get like a trainee photographer to sit there with it so it didn't get stolen or you know [TS]

  and get knocked over or anything like that but he had like a remote control to take the pictures [TS]

  and the trainee was in there to touch it because I always think I want to get the training to do it good practice [TS]

  and you know they can tell when something amazing is happening. [TS]

  But whenever he was around the ground doing his own pictures and e-zine things more his fire angles [TS]

  when something happened like a like a big wicket or a big interesting thing happen. [TS]

  He would just press this remote button and it would fire off ten shots really quickly. [TS]

  I always thought that was because he distrusted his knowledge of the game and his his knowing his feel for [TS]

  when this is a good moment to photograph to hit [TS]

  and he didn't trust the trainer he got the tranny would miss Mr magic moment because he didn't read the game as well [TS]

  and they realize this was purely a copyright thing. [TS]

  Yeah although I wonder I mean this is this is a strange [TS]

  but the you work for a contractor work for work for hire situations where people are producing artwork [TS]

  but the copyright. It goes to a company. Oh yeah yeah of course yeah. [TS]

  But there are also plenty of really weird situations with that we're trying to lock down something as a work for hire. [TS]

  You can run into all sorts of weird problems so I would be surprised at the trainee actually did have some kind of work [TS]

  for hire contract. But even still he just was a double to make sure that he is like an iron clad. [TS]

  This is my work it's not your work argument. [TS]

  Yeah I can't help it as as looking at this this monkey paid to have these few monkey picture staring at me. [TS]

  He describe. [TS]

  That's what the situation is with the monkeys and then below he says it is a totally humbling [TS]

  and almost beyond my ability to write here experience so we have humbling use on this monkey copyright page I just just [TS]

  caught my eye that it probably is humbling if you're a professional photographer [TS]

  and a monkey does a better job than you do. That's what we have proper use of humbling. [TS]

  It might be although he has plenty of other dramatic monkey photos this guy is clearly no slouch with the wildlife [TS]

  photography. [TS]

  Oh there he is complaining that he's he's really crying poor on this like I read an interview with him [TS]

  and he said you know I haven't got a lot of money and I need the money from this picture so you know [TS]

  but anyway it's an interesting argument and I I do sympathize with him if I if I through luck or circumstance. [TS]

  The thing is you know these guys these photographers spend all their life waiting for a lucky moment because that's [TS]

  when that's that that makes or breaks a career in figure of a lot of the time it's just that one lucky moment [TS]

  and he had that one lucky moment and. It has been snatched from him. [TS]

  Maybe rightly so but he's that that one career defining moment for him [TS]

  and he doesn't he's not getting He's not cashing in. [TS]

  Yeah the wildlife photography in particular is basically a kind of lottery that a lottery that you pay with in time [TS]

  and you hope to get one winning image out of there. But but yes I I just I think it is an interesting story. [TS]

  I'm very I'm very curious as to how this is going to work its way out in the end [TS]

  and this is also where you know I happen to be working on something which even though I don't really want to get it it [TS]

  involves copyright and fair use [TS]

  and the frustrating thing with copyright law you know why it is an endless topic of conversation is that there are no [TS]

  hard and fast rules. [TS]

  Ultimately all this stuff has to be decided by a court somewhere on each individual case [TS]

  and so a judge I'm not exactly sure. [TS]

  Where where the legal disagreement is taking place but a judge somewhere it somewhere is going to have to rule on. [TS]

  Is this a public domain image or is this a is this his image and I will be very curious to see which way that goes. [TS]

  So Monday copyrights I hope the monkey just about right. Not really I hope he gets it. [TS]

  When you make another video going coming this is this is that there's a thing I alluded to earlier which is the [TS]

  copyright thing. Yeah. [TS]

  Actually I'm OK I'm OK talking about this a little bit because given my timeline hopefully by the time this episode [TS]

  goes out hopefully the thing that I'm working on now will either just have come out or will just be out. [TS]

  Yeah this is a thing I mentioned last time that I've been bring cracking for too long [TS]

  and I'm just trying to get finished and is just a huge nightmare and enormous time sink and a copyright nightmare [TS]

  and I just I want this project to be done and over with. [TS]

  Even though it is a topic that is close to my heart there's nothing more in the world that I want to stand for this [TS]

  just to be finished and done [TS]

  and so that that is what I have been working on that is also partly why I have delayed this podcast recording one week [TS]

  because I was just too much in the in the middle of things [TS]

  but it is a very frustrating long boring process that hopefully will be over soon. [TS]

  I never I never want to work with video clips ever again. Every video I learned a lesson on what not to do. [TS]

  Video online. Don't ever do law again. Video on medicine no that's a terrible topic as well. [TS]

  And now a video that is primarily composed of video clips. That's also a terrible idea. [TS]

  It is so time consuming and if the thing comes out. As of right now it looks like it'll be. About twelve minutes long. [TS]

  Wow. [TS]

  Gosh yeah that's that's forever for me [TS]

  but I have been finding that it takes about a day per minutes to make a minute of things on screen because finding [TS]

  video clips is a million times harder than drawing exactly what I want. [TS]

  Yeah I'm trying I'm trying to I don't know if it'll work out [TS]

  but I'm trying to reduce the number of drawings that are going to be in this I don't want to be such a drawing you [TS]

  video but I know that that is also impossible to to accomplish so it is all just a nightmare I'll be happy [TS]

  when it's over but I look forward to a photo hopefully we'll talk about it in the next podcast. I don't know maybe not. [TS]

  I mean I guess we will talk about the topic when it comes out but I have I have no expectations for this video. [TS]

  This to me is I view this as a one hundred percent crowdfunding kind of project. [TS]

  I would never have done this video without the crowdfunding because it would just not make any sense for me to spend as [TS]

  much time as I have on it. [TS]

  Then you know if I was still one hundred percent reliant on advertising this is exactly the kind of thing that I just [TS]

  couldn't justify. But I have no expectations of how well it will do. [TS]

  I would not be surprised if it was not very popular because it's going to be different than the other things we will [TS]

  see. But hopefully that will be done soon. I don't want to see a clip of it. Yeah right. [TS]