0:00:00You are sick and I am just exhausted and amount of coffee that I need more. Let me ask you this let me ask you this.
0:00:08I just want to clear something up here because you're like one of my American friends taught element thirteen on the
0:00:14periodic table. Symbol I Al I was that you don't need some of the symbol element there is aluminum aluminium.
0:00:23You mean alum in the M. and M.
0:00:27Are you really going to start this argument I really didn't start so I want to know what you know the funny thing is I
0:00:32need to pull I need to pull up some google stuff.
0:00:34Right now I go out and I know you don't need to know I know I do I certainly do.
0:00:38You keep talking I'm going to do a little little lot of research right now I am a I am across this issue I actually
0:00:46thought you were going to be the minium camp on this. Why on earth would you think that I don't know I just flew.
0:00:54That's what I thought I thought and I know a lot of Americans say aluminum.
0:00:59I thought you were going to unless one thought would happen.
0:01:03But now you go to live in and tell me your live research or your position
0:01:08or whatever I'm just I'm trying to find out because I thought that there was some chemistry organization that didn't of
0:01:16the charge of the pronunciation I pack the older Union blood chemistry this is you're talking to the guy that makes
0:01:24period of videos man five you pack Sunny's I'm not ready that's all right then you try to pull it up here because I
0:01:31couldn't remember which way they went on that it was ninety ninety that they basically said it's Alan minium that will
0:01:39do and they also went change the spelling on cesium and sofa
0:01:45and there was this kind of I think it was bit of a deal where they when I gave one to the Americans
0:01:49and the Americans gave some to the Europeans and the Europeans did the right thing
0:01:54and took on the American side of the do when the Americans just that now they can go in.
0:02:00If you don't care and if two or three years later you pack folded like a deck of cards
0:02:06and said OK you could have both Alad minium is still the first preference it still have a Russia on their official
0:02:12periodic table
0:02:13but I have a little footnote saying some people also say aluminium meaning Americans who've been a done deal that the
0:02:20that the passive aggressive some people we can beat is sometimes very good at the at the super passive aggressive way
0:02:26of phrasing something they're like oh we're neutral. We're just passively aggressively neutral. I'm looking at.
0:02:32I thought there was something more recent than that but I'm going to I'm going to take your word for it.
0:02:36Well it's Alan many and we can period it videos
0:02:38and millions of videos about them so I don't think they're throwing a spanner in my works now.
0:02:43Well I don't know if this makes you feel better or if it makes you feel worse but when I taught here in the U.K.
0:02:49I would always say aluminium.
0:02:51I would never say aluminum because it was just far too distracting for the students to hear apparently what is the
0:02:57hilarious American pronunciation so I would say aluminium and never a comment so.
0:03:05I had opted out while I was here teaching but if I'm to sing at normal speech it's going to be aluminum.
0:03:11You did have a little mana victory though in my house today. Oh yeah because you have mice.
0:03:16My sister has started listening to all the hello internets
0:03:20and she's really into it which was surprising because I'm sure she doesn't watch my videos or anything
0:03:26but anyway she started listening. She says she enjoys it.
0:03:29So we're having a chat and then I said oh I've got something else I want to show you who are talking on Skype
0:03:35and I went
0:03:36and got this periodic table that has just been sent to me by my high school chemistry teacher from Australia
0:03:42and it was the periodic table that was up on the wall of my classroom
0:03:46when I was a student like inspired my interest in chemistry
0:03:49and it's a huge huge old you know outdated dusty old thing but you know it's a great piece of memorabilia
0:03:56and I pulled it out and said Look at this look what's been said to me really proudly.
0:04:00And she just went more rubbish more saluted then that's great.
0:04:06She was she was which is ridiculous because her house is full of stuff
0:04:10but anyway she was on your side there saying I like that she called it your monthly and that is great
0:04:16but that is really good.
0:04:18Could we ballpark your age based on how many elements are on the periodic table I don't know the rate at which elements
0:04:25have been discovered over the past several decades.
0:04:27But where does the periodic table stop you must have it framed somewhere by now and I know it's next to my desk
0:04:33and wrote up Hang on let me see if I can unroll a boy. Yeah. It's massive This is actually what you have today.
0:04:44We need a picture of this for the show notes in the future.
0:04:46Yeah I actually made a video about it because
0:04:49when I went to Australia it was still left in the class it was still up in the classroom
0:04:53and I went there with a professor from parody videos
0:04:55and we said look this is the periodic table that inspired the website and the videos and it was over a lovely
0:05:00and now all this time later he's actually sent it to me so I was hoping I'd keep it up there
0:05:05and maybe put like one of those little blue plaques underneath it
0:05:08and say oh yeah well you haven't went to scope stuff that I've basically gotten rid of it dumped on me.
0:05:13That's exactly it. They knew who it accepted gratefully. Well element one hundred four is not even named here.
0:05:19Say oh wow OK. OK I can remember is it.
0:05:27Shoot Finian something like phone ins an am but you'll probably end it with you and because you're American.
0:05:38Anyway they are more tech to my house so it has a hundred for about one hundred four is not named.
0:05:45Yeah right still got the letter naming convention year so it actually stops it stops at one hundred six hundred six.
0:05:58No Nexium it's got to us. As well say if you want to know the year over year it's rough thirty forty M.
0:06:06I cannot believe I couldn't remember that that is disappointing.
0:06:11Why are you disappointed I would've thought you'd be really into the periodic table.
0:06:15OK I will tell you yet another story of me just being a terrible person
0:06:19and I guess which goes along with this I had a I had a friend in college who I was I was somewhat competitive with
0:06:27and she was a chemistry major and I was a physics major and simply to irritate her.
0:06:34I memorized all of the names of all of the elements and their atomic number and their positions in the periodic table.
0:06:42I was trying to drive home of course like a physics major would the point that all chemistry is just stamp collecting
0:06:48like I can spend a few days and memorize this thing
0:06:50and it's all I basically know all there is to know about your subject
0:06:53but I have a have a whole flash card system that I keep up to date I always like to put the facts and things in it
0:07:00and that periodic table the information is still in my flash card system to this day so I can usually not as well as I
0:07:09did back in the day
0:07:09but I can usually know the name of an element given the atomic number of the element did you watch do you watch the
0:07:15T.V. Show. Point less do you not.
0:07:19It's that I won't bore you with the details of the show but the idea of the show is to know.
0:07:24So as to questions to which there are multiple answers like elements on the periodic table.
0:07:29But to pick the most obscure possible answer.
0:07:33So the idea is to is not just to get a ride but to get it right in a way that no one else would get it right
0:07:38and I do a poll of a hundred people
0:07:39and that you've got to find the answer that no one else said which is still correct is like reverse Stanley if you
0:07:47don't entirely understand it. Yeah yeah yeah that's actually that's not a bad way to put it.
0:07:51Yeah
0:07:51but this one has to be factually correct as OK you want the answer that is factually correct that the fewest number of
0:07:57people give. Yeah and you know.
0:08:00No one gave it the answer is considered pointless and that's like that's like you know that's a huge.
0:08:06OK So that's the big win. Nobody else said it is but it is still correct OK. Yeah that's interesting.
0:08:13So to give you an example that was just on the other day I was watching it the other day
0:08:16and I wasn't doing very well but then sort of the grand finale for the big jackpot.
0:08:22They had five areas they could choose between
0:08:25and one of them was chemistry one of the women on the show I really fancied as a bit of a science expert
0:08:31and had been talking a self up is this real science carries through the show.
0:08:35So she said we're going to do chemistry but with supreme confidence.
0:08:39Well this is going to be good
0:08:41and then the question was name an element on the periodic table for which its symbol is also the first two letters of
0:08:51the elements nine which is a you know OK OK second for my brain to parse. Yeah yeah I say like helium right.
0:09:00Ha and it's that's also the first two letters of helium. Right so you know.
0:09:06Yeah yeah so I mean there are quite a few of them.
0:09:10So the idea was to come up with one that you know no one else would think of as well run as a green on there that's my
0:09:16that's the fastest one I can come up with the probably the fewest number of people would guess
0:09:20and I think I can remember what ones I was fancy anyway so I was reeling off a whole bunch that I thought were likely
0:09:28and then how to start it and she was led to name three
0:09:32and one of them had to be completely pointless to win the jackpot.
0:09:35Had to be no one else had said it so I thought I K Let's say let's see what she names
0:09:40and the ones she named were plutonium so wrong four on which was just is just bait
0:09:52but then that's great of that even if you let it. No no no no it gets better.
0:09:57The piece de resistance and one that she thought was most like.
0:10:00Would it be correct to say she made it her like bank and was unobtainium.
0:10:05God and this was the one who said I really want to do a science category because I'm a science
0:10:12and leapt at the chance to do chemistry.
0:10:16She had three options unobtainium under God I was pretty disappointed I hate James Cameron so much for putting
0:10:25unobtainium an avatar that's just as bad. I was really bad as really bad.
0:10:31I I mean I just have to explain it just briefly to anyone on the if that happens to be listening
0:10:38and you made it all the way through Avatar
0:10:40but unobtainium it was a science fiction term just to refer to some kind of material which is not possible to actually
0:10:50make. So it was a it was a generic classification so.
0:10:55Like the the material in the Ringworld books that those worlds are made you could say Oh that is an unobtainium because
0:11:02it's incredibly light super strong metal that can possibly exist
0:11:07and then for Cameron to actually have the metal that they're going after in the movie called unobtainium is just so
0:11:14distracting. There were so many things in that movie that I hated but that one really really ground my gears.
0:11:20It would be like having something in a movie that the characters are going after that is called the Macguffin.
0:11:26Oh we're trying to find the McGuffin It's like only the first movie that did the MacGuffin that created the term
0:11:32McGuffin is allowed to do that you in your subsequent movies can just call something a MacGuffin without being
0:11:37incredibly distracting.
0:11:39The movie made me furious for very many reasons but piracy subtitles being one of them as well
0:11:44but the unobtainium particularly which is like I cannot believe that it's just make up a new name this is the laziest
0:11:51most awful distracting thing you could possibly do that movies dating badly
0:11:55when it came out like I didn't I didn't hate it I didn't hate her and I don't matter.
0:12:00So I thought it was pretty impressive you know it's got its flaws but it was pretty impressive to look at Russia.
0:12:05Again the other day because I stumbled over on the telly
0:12:08and it just it's looking really poor these days like at times not been kind to me. Good good.
0:12:17How many stars have any say as a given. No stars I give it you know the stars. No stands no stars.
0:12:24So any more follow up well can I just tell you one more thing about Avatar actually
0:12:29and I just know I know I get what you can but OK you know what I hate most about the ending of that movie.
0:12:35Drives me crazy and sometimes I just remember the ending of that movie
0:12:39and it makes me angry because they think OK OK This spacefaring civilization has you know is coming into conflict with
0:12:49basically people with no technology whatsoever
0:12:53and I can understand the notion that maybe under highly specific circumstances at the natives can win a ground war on
0:13:00this planet sure whatever. I'll let that slide but the final day he really wants to know.
0:13:06Yeah yeah right like that's I'll give it to the e walks a fine you know the terrain those apps can be tripped up quite
0:13:13easily with some string. Fine fine I'll let that go.
0:13:16Right but it's always like the whole empire it crumbles this whole system is gone.
0:13:21Now in Avatar the locals are loading the invaders back onto their space ships right now and ships presumably.
0:13:31If you don't like to like take off and to go into space
0:13:35and the whole opening premise of that movie is that they're coming from Earth because there are some unspecified huge
0:13:42problem on earth. People are dying so they need this unobtainium it's incredibly expensive it's hugely valuable.
0:13:49They're not just going to go home right they're not just going to go back to earth
0:13:52and be like well sorry everybody you know we couldn't remove that tree from its particular location
0:13:57and we know billions of people have to die.
0:14:00But they did fight us off with sticks on the ground is just our God I cannot stand that spaceships spaceship.
0:14:08Sorry it just it really it makes me angry.
0:14:11I hate that word and I made the eighty S T's that he walks taking out you know in the N.T.
0:14:16I think you know what the terrible thing is as soon as I said it I realized it was the wrong to the nation because yeah
0:14:21yeah the four legged versions.
0:14:23You're going to have to get rich
0:14:25and you don't muck around with the only one I think of ads in the final movie is is there's a shot of them kind of
0:14:33patrolling the base but it gets had Yeah but you say
0:14:38when he added looking at it in the lower left hand side of the screen.
0:14:41But as soon as I said it I regretted it and I knew it was wrong
0:14:45but I thought I can't do real myself at this very moment
0:14:47but I am going to take it up on the status of scientists a good twenty minutes
0:14:51and follow up next we're going to do half of it.
0:14:54We would have gotten e-mails
0:14:55and I would you know what that's a kind of like the kind of person you could pick up on that I appreciate that if you
0:15:00realize it's the wrong designation so you know I accept with on Facebook with my friends
0:15:06and stuff if people make you know spelling mistakes or typos OK commas
0:15:10or apostrophes wrong you know that stuff is that
0:15:13when friends start like spelling Star Wars things incorrectly like I was having a discussion the other day on Facebook
0:15:18with a friend about the Salek and he said that sounds like incorrectly
0:15:23and I wasn't that it was you know because it was all of that.
0:15:26Pedantry because someone had to post a picture of a two day tour with a light saber like someone just as agitated also
0:15:33looting at like seven someone's like our you know T.T.T.
0:15:35Never had a lot say that and it sounds like well as a matter of fact yes he did
0:15:39when he fired the lightsaber to Luke Skywalker I was getting very contained.
0:15:43Yes Yeah but then I was like well OK if you get a call that you've got to get a Salic spoke correctly
0:15:48and anyway it spiraled into the sort of conversation that results in you never having a girlfriend I mean we measure we
0:15:56could talk about so I was for forever which was we're not going to do but I will I will say is I find a little.
0:16:00You know what I've been up to think it was recently made the fourth which has become this kind of weird Star Wars sort
0:16:06of holiday I guess.
0:16:09And I spent my making the fourth not I didn't do this on purpose
0:16:13but afterwards I thought oh this is quite This is quite.
0:16:15This worked out quite well for reasons I'll get into later I had stuff that I need to do
0:16:19and I spent the whole May fourth re watching one of my favorite things on the internet ever which is the red letter
0:16:27media reviews of Star Wars Episode one two and three Have you seen this
0:16:32and really there is no better way to spend your time than watching guys that are brilliant.
0:16:38I have I have thought many a time that I forgive the existence of those first three movies because without them we
0:16:45would not have the red letter media reviews I will put the link in the show notes if you haven't seen these things they
0:16:53are great at what I will just pre warn people that the style of them takes a lot of getting used to.
0:17:00There's a kind of super creepy narrator who is doing this review of why the first three movies are awful.
0:17:07Trust me people run with it. Just just go along with it it is completely worth it. They are amazing.
0:17:13They're really entertaining
0:17:14and I often think of them as I mean they are as long as the movies themselves I think it's six hours to watch all of
0:17:20them from start to finish. They're great and that's great.
0:17:23He's got some really good stuff
0:17:25and some other films too I mean the no yeah yeah the star was the pinnacle of the Indiana Jones stuff is quite good.
0:17:31Yes standing in a Star Trek I actually my wife has seen the red letter media reviews
0:17:38but my wife is a very big Star Trek fan and I think of sort of references before on the show
0:17:43and I will not let her watch the red letter media star trek reviews because I've told her
0:17:49and I know her well enough to know that this is true.
0:17:51These reviews will just ruin some of the things in Star and Star Trek for you forever.
0:17:56You can't unsee some of the things that he talks about or the floods he points out.
0:18:00So there's a whole team of guys that red letter media
0:18:03and I mean those those reviews are I think just just great great great reviews
0:18:08but I would definitely list the Star Wars reviews in particular as one of my ten favorite things I have ever seen on
0:18:15the Internet so it will be in the show notes. Check it out people it's amazing.
0:18:19Follow up follow up we're talking about news last time someone in the Reddit left a quote which you can I thought
0:18:25summarize my my position just beautifully which is this Mark Twain quote that goes if you don't read the newspaper.
0:18:33Your uninformed and if you read the newspaper you are misinformed
0:18:38and I thought that that just struck me as beautiful like that is a perfect encapsulation of Basically my opinion of
0:18:44most of the news and. I choose to be uninformed rather than misinformed. So I just I love that.
0:18:52So thanks to whoever posted that on on the read it that was just that was just perfect that was really good.
0:18:58Did Mark Twain like say anything in his life that wasn't like an awesome quote like he must have been five hundred
0:19:04years out of sight to be sent over or some quotes where he said well this is it I have not investigated.
0:19:09Actually Mark to another so many mis attributed to Mark Twain kind of quote It's like it's like Yogi Berra there's a
0:19:14certain kind of quote that just gets ascribed to a particular person so someone can tell us in the comments if that is
0:19:20genuinely if it is a sourced Mark Twain quote or if this is just a manufactured Mark Twain quote
0:19:25or if somebody else said it wasn't as famous as Mark Twain
0:19:28but either way that that statement I think is just perfect absolutely perfect timing can they put a link down they want
0:19:35to talk about.
0:19:36Oh yeah I just just very briefly because I mentioned Nate Silver's five thirty eight Project the other one that I want
0:19:42to mention which is I don't I don't know this reporter as well
0:19:46but it's got called as reclined has started his own news project as well which looks promising I was taking a look at
0:19:53it a little bit earlier today
0:19:55but one of the things I like that they're that they're doing on this alternate news project is.
0:20:00Well is there publishing.
0:20:02If they interview someone they're publishing both the interviews like the full length Here's the actual interview we
0:20:09did.
0:20:09In addition to the story itself
0:20:12and I think that that is a great example of how news on the Internet can just can just be so different
0:20:18and you can you can have a story that summarizes an interview that you did with somebody
0:20:22and within that story you can link to the audio version or whatever our limitations.
0:20:28There's no there's no limit at all
0:20:31and I think part of it is a guy I have followed for years called Paul Graham was recently caught out in a big big
0:20:37problem where the quote that he said was taken out of context and
0:20:41and this is the kind of thing where I think it is great if this could become more of a standard that look if you're
0:20:45going to do a story you're going to publish the whole interview as well so you can't try to spin it in a particular way.
0:20:54And also on the flip side it allows it doesn't allow people to just claim that they were misquoted if they are actually
0:21:01just said some horrible thing or if they really meant that they can say oh the newspaper took me out of context.
0:21:06Because again you have a whole interview there so I thought I just thought that was a good example of how the internet
0:21:11is different and can be better than traditional news reporting in some ways.
0:21:16So yeah appealing to Vox in the show notes if people want to check that out.
0:21:24Today's episode of hello internet has been sponsored by our friends at all Boo dot com the leading provider of spoken
0:21:30audio information and entertainment. Listen to audiobooks whenever and wherever you want.
0:21:37Now you can get a free audiobook
0:21:39when you sign on for the orrible membership if you go to Old dot com slash Hello the internet you'll find all the data
0:21:45files and I really enjoy all of the ads because we get to recommend a book
0:21:49and today Grey's let me loose he's going to let me recommend one that first of all I think I quickly talk about why you
0:21:55would listen to audiobooks. I've only really got into audio books in the last couple of years and that's because.
0:22:00See changes in my life.
0:22:01One is I've started driving a lot more and longer distances because of my work
0:22:07and like reading an actual book at the wheel of a car is pretty dangerous.
0:22:11So I give that mace and go for the audiobooks instead.
0:22:14But also you've probably heard me talk recently on the podcast about some trips I've taken to the Himalayas
0:22:19and that involves basically you know ten hour walks each day and audiobooks really helped pass the time.
0:22:26Now when I did those trips I filled up the i Phone with books all about Mt Everest in the Himalayas
0:22:31and I love mountaineering books full stop.
0:22:33I want to recommend a book today called high crimes by Michael Codesa I guess is how you pronounce his name.
0:22:39This is a book I listen to while walking to Everest base camp
0:22:43and basically I mean the subheading of the book is the fate of Everest in an age of greed and it really is about.
0:22:51Why all the crazy things people are getting up to on the mountain these days.
0:22:55I mean this isn't like sort of into thin air where you think well you know some people here have got moral dilemmas.
0:23:02This book tells some stories about some acts people do that are just plain criminal.
0:23:07It really is extraordinary it's true story
0:23:09and it's told really cleverly it's told from the two different sides of the mountain at the same time some people who
0:23:17are going up from the deposed Saddam some of the people who were going up from the the China Tibet side it's really
0:23:23worth listening to.
0:23:24It's well narrated it's well written
0:23:27and if you're someone who does like going for walks it's a really nice book to have playing while sort of you know
0:23:34admiring the scenery and watching the world go by.
0:23:37So they go high crimes if you want to listen to all of you has along with one hundred fifty thousand other titles.
0:23:43No mountaineering books unfortunately but I've got pretty much every genre covered.
0:23:47You find what you're looking for go to dot com and slash hello internet.
0:23:53So I know you came from us and remember you get a free audiobook when you sign on for their thirty day trial today.
0:23:59Thanks. Sponsoring us that's portable dot com slash.
0:24:07I just want to share a little moment I had with you and it was a really it was a nothing moment.
0:24:13Well I think it will speak to you in some way.
0:24:17They of course basically I had I've been filming all this stuff on all my various cameras including like the high speed
0:24:27slow motion camera that create these enormous files that take days to process
0:24:32and I've actually got a second computer in a corner that just processes those files because for various reasons so I
0:24:39have plugged in all the high speed camera and and all these files were processing
0:24:45and then over my main computer I had all my rushes from that day's filming or going into the computer
0:24:51and at the same time the computer was processing some other videos from one format to another that needed doing
0:24:58and at the same time I was downloading a bunch of stuff that was being sent to me by someone else via Dropbox.
0:25:04And while that was going on I think I was just surfing the internet or something
0:25:08and I suddenly looked around at what was going on and how much work these machines were doing and I thought.
0:25:17Computers a pretty amazing good. There are amazing. Yes they are but they are quite amazing and super important.
0:25:26Like I remember I was once going for a walk
0:25:28and I was closing a gate that had to be closed otherwise what she could escape
0:25:34and someone had attached a rock to the chain that post the gate closed
0:25:43and because that rock was tied on there the gate would always be pulled closed
0:25:46but you couldn't leave it open by mistake and I looked at that
0:25:49and I thought oh isn't that clever Isn't that amazing how clever humans
0:25:53and I spent a good five ten minutes talking to people that this clever person who'd attached a rock to a chair.
0:26:00Oh day I'm surrounded by these machines that are doing these remarkable remarkable things
0:26:06and you just don't think about it I think that the rock on a chain
0:26:10and the computers are kind of the same thing if you want to set up an environment that assists you in whatever it is
0:26:17you want to do so I actually really love the rock on the chain as well because it's something of there are going to be
0:26:23times when you're exiting the gate and you're you're occupied with something else or you're in a big hurry
0:26:26and so you want to engineer the situation so that it is not possible for you to forget because then you have sheep
0:26:32running all over the countryside
0:26:33or whatever it is you know the Raptor gets loose because you didn't put the bolt in the way it's supposed to be like
0:26:38well you shouldn't be able to leave the cage unbolted.
0:26:42So I think that that stuff is great
0:26:43and the computers are the same thing having having the machine to do work for you when when
0:26:50when you're not actively using it is brilliant.
0:26:52The sheer volume of work they do is amazing the lack just anyway so I sound like I've just come from I said like a
0:27:00caveman know and like that sometimes you just forget and I like that just how how much they do and how quickly
0:27:07but anyway I was just a little moment I had missed out on him
0:27:10and I thought Grey would like this to be in the life of computers I do I too I am glad that you appreciate you know the
0:27:18mechanical servants that we have in our lives the digital service that we have in our lives.
0:27:22Say speaking of technology digital servants and assistants.
0:27:28I'm going to fail you the other day and I didn't get through I got your voicemail.
0:27:34It basically is just saying that leave a message. I don't listen to messages.
0:27:39That's about right I like that I like that I was kind of it was hardcore you know.
0:27:44Yet don't mess around with pleasantries just like you waste your time.
0:27:49It's like it's like sending your name I don't Bob No doubt the e-mails at least have the possibility of catching my
0:27:55attention but you may shake your voice my little in case I can't play my voice not basically say. As I see G.P.
0:28:01Gray Don't leave a voicemail.
0:28:03I do not check these messages and the thing that baffles me is that I know people still leave voice mails.
0:28:11I don't understand who the people are who these voice mails because I don't listen to them.
0:28:15I'm not kidding around and a little while ago
0:28:17when I think it was in the latest version of I O S Apple introduced a feature where you can block messages
0:28:25or text on a particular phone number so I actually blocked whatever number it is that my telephone service provider
0:28:33uses to send me a notification to let me know that I have forty five unread voicemail messages.
0:28:38So I go this is great so I can block this
0:28:39and now I don't even have to do it once a week get some dumb text telling me that there's a message
0:28:43or that I should listen to. So I know that my voicemail is basically just a black hole.
0:28:49I things go in there and they never come out and everyone is like you know what if your wife gets abducted
0:28:54or something
0:28:55and she's trying to call you from the trunk of a car if she's being sped out to the countryside she sang How are you
0:29:01darling tell me and. So first of all she probably sent me a text message.
0:29:07But second of all I mean I have my phone on me all the time as she tries to call I can see that it's her calling again
0:29:15with on the i Phone her you know her picture shows up and it's my wife so I know to take that call
0:29:21but my phone blocks you know anything from unknown numbers and you know I don't I just don't even receive those
0:29:28but of course the people in my life who want to be able to contact me know how to contact me if they're not going to
0:29:35leave a voicemail message that's I get I don't know who these people are
0:29:39and I guess I never will know who the people are who the voicemail messages I get all I know is that they have my phone
0:29:44number but they don't know the ways that I actually want to be contacted and that's fine I guess.
0:29:51No it's never caused any problems for me so I came across a video the other day. Which I just showed you today.
0:30:03I will I will I will try and explain the video for the few people out there who have not seen
0:30:07and they must only be a few because big watch twenty nine million times.
0:30:11Just pull it up again even though it infuriated me. Yes twenty nine actually.
0:30:16As of now it's now thirty million views they must've just updated it so I will try to summarize it before I let you off
0:30:25the ledge.
0:30:28I would it's it's a very clean cut young man in a sensible sweater and reciting a poem to I believe he wrote
0:30:38and it was kind of one of those poems that your rockets go that is nice because it will drive him all the time while
0:30:44you eat some lime sort of grimy palm and it's all about.
0:30:54Sort of our current society's obsession with you know social media and always being on our computers and i Phones
0:31:01and a sort of a video like this comes along every few months I guess that goes viral which is cool which is ironic that
0:31:08they'd come along come along and go viral on social media. But anyway this this one went viral.
0:31:13There was one there was one last year that was really good actually.
0:31:16So what about that Gail that was sort of it hanging out with their friends
0:31:20and doing all these activities in Iran was always on their phone.
0:31:22Yes I mean I'll see if I can find that one I remember that when making the rounds
0:31:26and I really like that one that one's good but this one's a bit odd and this one didn't do it for me so much.
0:31:34But anyway if you know what I'm going to be completely honest with you I haven't even watched so far.
0:31:40I would not get five minutes to a video I don't enjoy but I believe you did what you know.
0:31:44Well well well to be clear about this you sent this to me
0:31:50and said oh I really want you to watch this for today's program.
0:31:54Now because I want to stay you know well I was stirred up partly because.
0:32:00About three minutes into it I said something to you like I should I should pull up I support the messages right here
0:32:05what I what I say to you I said the video is so insufferable.
0:32:10Do I have to watch to the end it's already been three minutes and forty forty six seconds
0:32:15and the video is five minutes long. And Hugh reply you're like oh I didn't even watch it at all.
0:32:23You know so I just sent it to you I thought you should watch it
0:32:26and I thought I like an idiot just assume that you sent me something to watch and that you would have watched it all
0:32:31but you just you just wanted to pass it along to me
0:32:33and neglected to mention that you yourself didn't watch it so I was super irritated by that.
0:32:39I think I got the general gist in the general case is you know where technology is an illusion
0:32:44and let's end the confusion and delusion and let's all get together and hold hands
0:32:53and get our heads out of the screens and smell the flowers and touch a baby and stuff.
0:33:01Yeah but like I
0:33:02and like I don't disagree with the sentiment like I sometimes feel really down about how much time I spend on computers
0:33:08and social media. I'm like you I probably I know you I mean.
0:33:12I'm prob this video should appeal to me more than you because I do feel that life has become too skewed in that
0:33:20direction. But this video a twenty nine million. Tell me what you thought about it.
0:33:28Well I just assumed that you were one hundred percent on board with this nonsense I'm actually kind of surprised that
0:33:33it irritated even you but you have to the basic I mean will put it in the show notes you know good luck people.
0:33:40You can watch it but the basic premise of the video is exactly that
0:33:43and people spent too much time on social media blah blah blah.
0:33:46And there is the Romney poem and the video that's going on in the background shows people on their phones.
0:33:52But there's a kind of story I guess that that's cut through it which is this guy using.
0:34:00If it shows a guy who instead of using his phone is trying to find directions somewhere
0:34:06and of course a pretty girl walks by and he asks her for directions and then they skip to them suddenly having dinner.
0:34:14I guess it's implied that she was going to go. Yeah there was a story.
0:34:19So if you talk to real humans you can write like a like a pretty girl will suddenly end up having dinner with you if
0:34:25you just ask her for directions which first of all I just think instead of using Google Maps using Google Maps I mean
0:34:33so many things wrong with that but I mean how many women are going to presumably walk a stranger to their location
0:34:40and then end up having dinner with them that night I think the chances of that are pretty low so I don't like the
0:34:46framing mechanism just even to start with for the video.
0:34:49And also again the the idea that there are only people in the real world right that there aren't people on the Internet
0:34:56Well I think I mentioned before on the show but I found my wife through the Internet.
0:35:01I would I would never have met her were it not for the Internet we had many a digital communication before we ever met
0:35:07in person.
0:35:08So the idea that I go the only way you can find true love is just by random chance walking around in the street asking
0:35:14strangers for directions and then being a total creepy person
0:35:17and having them walk you to that place long enough so that you can get to know each other
0:35:22and then she invites you over for dinner I guess in this fantasy land of how human interactions go now.
0:35:28The framing device is just off.
0:35:30So I think even you must realize that eventually you have to supplement this cyber relationship with like a physical
0:35:37meeting women you bit the bullet one day and said I'm going to make this woman before I actually marry her.
0:35:42Yeah obviously obviously yes
0:35:44and that's that's the thing that I hate about a video like this is is is is the whole premise the whole premise through
0:35:51something like this is that our technology is not any good because it separates us from each other
0:35:57and I think that premise is obvious.
0:36:00Yes Leigh wrong there is there is a totally reasonable argument to be made about the amount of time that people spend
0:36:07using technology that's a completely reasonable argument.
0:36:11But but this idea that the premise of the video is like you know go on
0:36:15and it ends with with the the takeaway message is the next time you go outside Be sure to leave your i Phone behind so
0:36:23you can experience the real world.
0:36:26What are you crazy who is can kick you that was going to do that unless I'm intentionally I don't know going to some
0:36:35isolation retreat for the weekend which I would also say that that can be an interesting experience to do there are
0:36:40there are places you can go that are intentionally separated from technology I think that's a super cool experience
0:36:46but I'm still going to take my phone right on in my car to get to that place for so many numerous reasons it's just.
0:36:55These things just make me mad to make me super mad
0:36:57and I also notice how I mean there's no way he could have known this was going to be watched as many times as they
0:37:03marched
0:37:04and I have noted that he has activated advertising on his one video on You Tube so I bet he's about to start spending a
0:37:11whole lot more time making You Tube videos.
0:37:12Yes probably was as uploaded recently I think I think I think he's about to enter the April twenty fifth.
0:37:19Oh so this is one like I guess now a record it's been two and a half three weeks.
0:37:24This guy thought I bet he's not going to think it's such an illusion delusion
0:37:28when he starts getting a big check from you getting thirty million views that like a third of my whole You Tube career
0:37:38but so anyway it just makes me mad and I think now the first one that I liked a while back
0:37:47and it's been it's been a long time
0:37:48but I'm going to presume based on the kinds of things the past me would like that that video was more reasonable about
0:37:54it and I think that I don't know I don't know if you experience a super often.
0:38:00But I will I will judge people harshly if we're in a social situation
0:38:05and someone is always distracted by their phone big you know partly because OK it's taken a whole bunch of effort for
0:38:13everybody to come out and like and we're in a place and if you are the person who is always on their phone
0:38:18or you know you the person like posting photographs of the thing that we're at right now.
0:38:24Yeah I do kind of judge that a little bit I think if you're socializing with other people it's time to put your phone
0:38:30away
0:38:31and make a conscious effort to be present with the people that you're there with I think that's the point of going out.
0:38:38If you didn't want to be there with the people then you shouldn't have gone and you should have stayed home
0:38:43and that's you know that's perfectly fine.
0:38:45So I make it a very very conscious effort that if I'm if I'm out with people to not have my phone out
0:38:50and not be checking the phone and I think that that's that's good
0:38:54and that's a reasonable argument that you're going to leave your phone at home.
0:39:00Is is just ludicrous
0:39:02or that that the phone hasn't helped your life in a numerous into so many ways I mean that's that's the thing that gets
0:39:09me is that people don't have i Phones. For no reason.
0:39:15People have all of these smartphones
0:39:17and all of these devices because they are making a judgment that their life is way better with them than without them.
0:39:25So that's that's why it's I can't stand these things where I think all Apple has made all of us sad by the magical
0:39:31wondrous things that they have created which we all voluntarily use every day because they're great.
0:39:37It just it just gives me it's you know I just I mean
0:39:41but like you said I mean I'm probably more susceptible to that message
0:39:44but I kind of can't believe it that you're on my side in this argument to be well.
0:39:49Well I think I think he lost me with his style. Like the like.
0:39:55Whereas the other one the one that was good from a year ago or so I like that.
0:40:00Kind of cool and well Sharpton like I was sort of jealous of the filmmaking
0:40:05and thought Yeah this is really cool we may resist one was kind of a bit like you know I thought it was a bit twenty in
0:40:11a day. It didn't do it for me.
0:40:14So you know I'm not I'm not completely hard core
0:40:19but I do think there is you know you know I think a bit differently to you on this
0:40:23and we will do spend too much time on the Internet
0:40:25and I may more than anyone that is super open to the argument that there are there are times to put technology away
0:40:35and I think many years ago I mean the company made us want to try to get this right I think it was called The Prince
0:40:42Albert hotel tell. Listen to the fast typing Wow I wasn't even looking at the keyboard when that was going on.
0:40:53How do you know what buttons you are pressing. Well I have learned to touch type.
0:40:58That has happened so I knew I didn't quite get that right I was just looking it up
0:41:01and it was the Prince of Wales Hotel.
0:41:04Just when the name people want to look it up
0:41:06and it is in an amazingly gorgeous place which is this national park that spans both Canada
0:41:12and the United States called the Waterton glacier International Peace Park.
0:41:18It is a stunningly beautiful place if you are ever if you ever in the area you need to to take a trip to see it
0:41:24and I happen to just stumble upon this place
0:41:26when I was doing a road trip across America I didn't really intend to go there I just sort of ended up there
0:41:31and the hotel makes a big point of the fact that they don't have why fight they don't have internet.
0:41:39How can they get cell phone reception at that hotel and that part of the experience
0:41:44and I think I ended up staying there for two or three days
0:41:48and I thought it was just great you know I love that kind of conscious decision that we're going to have this space
0:41:54where we remove technology and they had a downstairs dining area where they encouraged everybody to come.
0:42:00Look those people here and we want to try to encourage you to talk to other people in this setting and I did
0:42:05and it was it was really nice it was really great so there there is definitely benefits to conscious exclusion of
0:42:12technology from certain areas.
0:42:14But the idea that all of life is made miserable by technology is just obviously ludicrous.
0:42:19So anyway that's that's that to the actual border run through the grounds not between the two countries.
0:42:25Well not for this that hotel was very clearly on the Canada side
0:42:30but there is basically it is a stunning forest mountain range glacier area and both the United States
0:42:38and Canada thought that this mountain range would make a great national park
0:42:43and then at some point they realized oh we both have these national parks that are butting up right against each other
0:42:48on our border.
0:42:49So why don't we make this like an officially managed area as an international Park so it's very very cool
0:42:56and you should go check it out if you're ever in the area. The elephant in the pod cast that we have not yet discussed.
0:43:05You put in here but you know that. Yes yes.
0:43:08We're recording this on Thursday night and on Monday I put a video out
0:43:15and there was a there was a brief glorious moment on the grave verses Brady Web site where it showed me as having put
0:43:24out a video and you as having nothing at all
0:43:28and so I had to screenshot that for myself to preserve this rare moment because normally it says that you have released
0:43:35twenty seven videos since the last time I released a video so I was I was happy to see that counter at least briefly
0:43:42reset with with the real video. So when we talk about your video I do have a few issues with that Web site.
0:43:49Go girl like like I enjoy that it was made and like I get a chuckle from it
0:43:54but I think it manages to be unfair to both of us which is quite amazing.
0:44:00It manages to portray both of us very unfairly and that's a pretty special.
0:44:05Now do you actually think and how do you think it through all of us and fairly well.
0:44:12How long if you go look at it but it's what you think it treats you unfairly.
0:44:21Well I guess it maybe takes me momentarily but Tracy will be unfairly because it makes it makes you look.
0:44:28Unproductive and makes it look like you know he's really making videos
0:44:33and trying to educate the world while you're stagnating.
0:44:38Right that's one way you could put it which is completely unfair because of the completely different nature of their
0:44:43videos and the way they're made and the production cycles so I think that's unfair on you and then.
0:44:50I think it's unfair on me because it makes me look like I'm going to video as well your lovingly crafting videos in a
0:44:58you know in your studio but also also you know having these few accounts and having having the average of you count.
0:45:06Obviously my average we can't is very very low compared to yours partly because you have a much bigger more successful
0:45:11channel but also because my number number filed is pretty much the same number of subscribers.
0:45:19Now then you were there
0:45:21but also you know my average is being dragged down by all these other little videos I make for these little niche
0:45:26projects so I think that average is slightly deceiving figure
0:45:32but then the total number of yes' which obviously then puts me up probably higher than you again I think it is also it
0:45:38is also unfair because you know I have all these different projects and different things I'm working on
0:45:44and some of them have help
0:45:45and you're just you know so I think I don't know I think it's a bit unfair I don't buy that
0:45:51but I love that it was made and I do look at it and I and I get a laugh and I think it's a good joke to have going
0:45:58but I think it's.
0:46:00I think it is mostly funny
0:46:01and I think I think that anybody who is enthusiastic enough to go to that Web site like that they know that it's funny.
0:46:08They understand how different our videos are the love I do love the little Easter eggs that when
0:46:13when a new video is on there
0:46:15and if you count to has frozen a three I won so you can't just throw one in there that actually made that a hyperlink
0:46:21to my three A one video that explains why he's stick it through
0:46:24and if you notice that I didn't notice the hyperlink it didn't as a hyperlink. Yeah I am.
0:46:29I'm forever envious of your three o one video because I had something in the works on that
0:46:34and then you beat me to it
0:46:36and so now you get to be the definitive video about why video stop at three hundred one views so well done well done
0:46:42for you on that one.
0:46:43You shouldn't you should you should still make one because you do it better
0:46:47and would be really cool to watch right now
0:46:49but I think I think I think yours is good I think there is no reason to duplicate as you but you win this round
0:46:56but I did not notice that there was a hyperlink on the three o one so that's good that's a nice touch.
0:47:00Let's touch on it is that was that was that was nice. I really want you to make it through one video it was torture.
0:47:07Anyway anyway let's this is that stop talking about that let's talk about your new video which you put out this week on
0:47:15net neutrality and which I've watched a couple of times and enjoyed very much. I thought it was excellent.
0:47:23Tell me about it. Well you know so me to very quickly tell me the story.
0:47:29Yeah this was a video that I think honestly took took some some weeks off the end of my life because this was this was
0:47:39under just the most unusual group of circumstances so there's the short version of this.
0:47:50I was working on something a main video for this month which was not the net neutrality thing
0:47:56but I don't know what it was I think or maybe I saw something on Reddit or first.
0:48:00Some reason net neutrality was just on the top of my mind.
0:48:03On Thursday nights the Thursday before the video I remember going to bed
0:48:09and it was just it was kind of just cycling in my brain isn't falling to sleep or thinking about net neutrality
0:48:13and so then in the on Friday morning
0:48:17when I went to my usual work routine I thought let me just let me just poke around
0:48:21and research the net neutrality thing a little bit I can feel my brain is interested in this this might be a good time
0:48:25to work on it.
0:48:27And Friday morning I discovered that this whole news in while recording this right now that in America the F.C.C.
0:48:35Which is the government body that kind of regulates all of the stuff of Internet and telecommunications
0:48:40and everything in America.
0:48:42They announced that they're going to have some announcements related to net neutrality on the fifteenth of this month
0:48:50and so I discover that on Friday morning the calendar is just going at the right because one is and so that would be.
0:49:00Second I guess. Yeah so that was Friday morning with the second. Yeah and.
0:49:07Basically I thought oh God this is the this is the best time ever to make this video that I've been kind of thinking
0:49:13about for a while like I had a bunch of notes already on net neutrality if I'm ever going to do it I have to do it
0:49:19right now but it's going to be an advocacy video so that means I need to get it out as soon as possible.
0:49:25And for various strategic trying to hit the news cycle reasons that that meant like OK I have to get this out on either
0:49:32Monday or Tuesday at the absolute latest I know in my normal production cycle that is not really possible.
0:49:42But I was thinking OK I I do already know a lot about this topic.
0:49:47I don't have to do a bunch of research on this so I can cut all of that out.
0:49:51And this kind of thing I think most people who watch videos don't notice that it's a big deal for me.
0:49:57I stylistically have two different videos. Our video is where I'm talking to the audience directly.
0:50:04Those are the videos that usually start out where I say hello internet.
0:50:07And then I have my what I think of as the main videos were stylistically I don't use the word I
0:50:13and I might make oblique references to my thoughts but I very intentionally don't ever use the word I.
0:50:19Yeah and the ones where I talk to the audience are way easier to write.
0:50:23I was thinking OK if I do this is as a first person centred video and I don't need to do the research.
0:50:31Is it possible to turn it around and so I basically spent all of Friday trying to write a rough draft for the script
0:50:37and I came to the conclusion that if I don't sleep I might be able to get this out by Monday which is which is what
0:50:44happened.
0:50:45But just to add in the thing that made this a little bit more difficult
0:50:49and it was just the worst timing in the world was that. Both on Monday.
0:50:55My wife was leaving for a trip where she's going to be gone for about a week
0:51:00and so the idea of having to say I'm not going to be around because I need to spend all of my time on this project
0:51:07right before you're going to go somewhere is not ideal. That's not good. Yes not good.
0:51:12And then you add into the fact that I had family visiting from America at this exact same time
0:51:18and so I had to say the same thing that oh I know you flew across an ocean to see me
0:51:24but I need to take three days to not be available because I need to go do a thing on the Internet.
0:51:32So like this project was both incredibly rushed and under terribly difficult circumstances.
0:51:38But I did it because it is it is a topic that I super care about like there are very few topics where I would look at
0:51:46that factor. All of these decisions and say but I should still make this video anyway.
0:51:51I think almost any other topic I would say I do not have the time or the resources
0:51:55or just like the sanity to be able to ignore my family in this time to be able to.
0:52:00So it was it was a very costly video and a whole bunch of waves.
0:52:03And yes I ended up on Sunday I did all of the animations and most of the audio
0:52:10and I basically woke up Sunday at about seven am and I went to bed at three am and then I cut up Monday morning
0:52:16and finished up a couple final things and so I was not in great shape that day
0:52:22and I feel like I'm still slightly recovering from this this ridiculous burst of work which is not a sustainable way to
0:52:30work so it was it was very exhausting from start to finish. It only took three days just to do that once I wake up.
0:52:36Yeah and then my rest for the other four days and you could have a weekly video to be brilliant.
0:52:43Now that is a a once maybe twice a year kind of kind of thing
0:52:49and I get only under incredibly exceptional circumstances
0:52:53and only for topics I know already that is that even possible.
0:52:56So I love you Internet which is why I made that video I think this is super important
0:53:00but there's no way I could do normal videos like that and still be alive by the time I was fifty or so.
0:53:07So let's talk about net neutrality for him
0:53:10and obviously I'm imagining almost everyone who listens will of say New video
0:53:15and if they haven't well maybe they should post now Mucha.
0:53:19Yeah I was actually wondering and dear listener who hears my voice right now you can answer this question.
0:53:25I was kind of wondering if there's anybody who listens to this who doesn't watch both of our channels
0:53:31or at the very least one of our channels a few very curious
0:53:35and they read it if there is anybody who came upon this pod cast in some other way but didn't didn't either.
0:53:42No your channel or my channel before that.
0:53:44I'm just curious to know if that person exists if you exist and you're listening to me right now.
0:53:49Thomas please leave a comment in the Reddit and we'll see how that goes and kind of areas
0:53:54but I had also just did a video which is excellent which I'm sure you might mention and would definitely.
0:54:00So I think grain I had missed ten grains but I saw that today as well and that's also very good.
0:54:06I discovered his video after I spent my whole day writing the scripts
0:54:11and then the first time I checked my computer email on the things I saw I was angry
0:54:15and upload a video so I thought oh call them if you let me see what Hank has done
0:54:19and then he asked for my heart upload her video I think I guess I'm not.
0:54:25Yeah I am really I'm still out of it I think it was yesterday
0:54:29but yeah so just super brief for you know for the record on this show.
0:54:36Net neutrality is basically it's this issue about what amount of control does the company that you by your Internet
0:54:47have over what comes through the wires and net neutrality is the principle that they should basically have no control.
0:54:56But all of the data should be treated equally and that whatever X.
0:55:01Whatever web site you are attempting to access that should just come through your Internet cable at the maximum.
0:55:08Technically possible speed or the maximum speed for whatever package you have paid for
0:55:13and that there shouldn't there shouldn't be any ability to change that.
0:55:18So that that is the principle of net neutrality in a nutshell treat all data coming through the pipe equally So this is
0:55:25sort of your internet provider country some deal where they say we'll give you a super fast Netflix
0:55:31but your youtube videos will be sly things by that in the US
0:55:36and in other parts around the world companies Internet service providers some of them anyway are are trying to get that
0:55:44rule removed because if you are the person who's actually maintaining those Internet connections you want the ability
0:55:53to influence the traffic that is going through those wires and you have a as a company you have a huge number of.
0:56:00Reason that you would want to do this.
0:56:02But and
0:56:03but I would say what I would assume is one of the primary motive factors motivating factors is simply just money.
0:56:10If you control like the final wire going into somebody's house
0:56:15and you have the ability to artificially slow down various Web sites unless people either the consumer who is already
0:56:21paying for the Internet pays more for the speedy you to package or you know
0:56:27or as has happened in the United States where the Internet service providers have charged just sounds so awful
0:56:34but they have charged other companies like Netflix additional money in order to just let Netflix through the wire as
0:56:43it's supposed to go. It's like holding data for ransom isn't it.
0:56:47Yeah it's basically like holding data for data for ransom
0:56:50and there are topics that are just basically impossible to talk about in terms of what they really are.
0:57:01Go to Wikipedia and read the article about how the Internet works.
0:57:05You have all of these complicated connections between you know Tier one Tier two Tier three providers backbones peering
0:57:13exchanges with all this at these huge levels of complexity
0:57:16and I was speaking with a few people to try to sort out some of the stuff in this segment if you're not a network
0:57:23engineer.
0:57:25It's almost impossible to talk about this in the terms that it actually is
0:57:30and so you see as in my own video as in via hearts video as it Hanks video people talk in terms of analogies
0:57:36and they use the usual analogy is like a road and people are talking about trucks and delivering packages
0:57:41and all the rest of that
0:57:42and it's because there's no other way to talk about this you can't have this discussion on the actual level of what it
0:57:50is and then all of the arguments kind of boil get get messed up
0:57:55when you're arguing over the analogy because there are so many reasons that cars on a road.
0:58:00Nothing like the way the Internet works that it's very confusing
0:58:04and it's one of the reasons why I absolutely hate it
0:58:06but the Internet service providers are often talking about building fast lanes you know like oh we want to build fast
0:58:14lanes for the Internet which sounds awesome except that
0:58:17when you try to root through the technical details what they really mean is like oh well slow down everything
0:58:24and then the normal lane becomes the fast lane and you know everything else is going through the slow lane
0:58:29and it's simply fast by comparison.
0:58:31But it's it's just such a complicated issue
0:58:35and I have I have I'm just incredibly deep disappointments with the video that I produced
0:58:42but I'm relatively happy with it given the time constraints
0:58:47and given the kind of goal from my perspective which was to talk about net neutrality in the most general possible
0:58:55terms not specifically related to the issues going on in America.
0:59:00And in a way that might hopefully give a person unfamiliar with the technology some notion of why it is bad.
0:59:10So the those were basically my goals for that I was not attempting to explain more of the details of what's going on
0:59:17and for that I think via heart we actually were talking via heart is spotted me on Twitter asking a particular question
0:59:25and that the couple times of I've talked by heart in person.
0:59:30It's just creepy but sometimes we have the exact same thoughts about something
0:59:34or like we know what the other person is thinking
0:59:36and via hearts on the Ask a relatively innocuous question on Twitter why was asking people for help with something
0:59:41and basically sent me a message a minute later she said I know exactly what you're working on you're working on a net
0:59:46neutrality video and I am too. Yes by heart you can read my mind.
0:59:51So we she showed me her script you know and we had a little bit of a discussion about it
0:59:56but if you want a video that does a much better job of talking.
1:00:00Still an analogy but much more about like what is what are the details of this
1:00:04and what is happening in America right now via hard video is a much better video than mine for that mine I think is a
1:00:10much more general one that I hope will be applicable in future situations if if net neutrality problems come up
1:00:18elsewhere.
1:00:18I was I was having a think about not discussing this
1:00:21and because implicitly sometimes my role here is to be a bit of a devil's advocate just to kind of nudge you a bit to
1:00:28find out more about what you think.
1:00:30But this really is a case of where being the devil's advocate is being an advocate of the devil in a way because
1:00:37because it's hard to it's hard to kind of reconcile the opposing position.
1:00:43And like I was doing it to myself in my head saying I could ask radius where I could put this to him
1:00:48but I was just like my argument was falling apart before I even came out of my mouth because I kind of.
1:00:55I think we're pretty much in agreement
1:00:57and like no one you know that you trust is really important to me for my job to you. I will try.
1:01:05Well if I before you even try just to simply say that I did get a whole bunch of comments both on You Tube
1:01:11and on Reddit where people were asking you know what what the other what the other side to this
1:01:16or you know why you know what why would a government even consider doing this
1:01:21and most of the time I would try to explain that if there was some kind of reasonable argument to be had on the other
1:01:27side. But there are there are definitely times when there there is no reasonable argument to be had on the other side.
1:01:38I can understand why the company wants to do it
1:01:41but there's no argument to be made for why it is good for either society or the Internet as a whole is my position.
1:01:47So now I will let you devil's advocate after I've put that in ahead of time so I guess the first question like the most
1:01:55fundamental question to this is is data.
1:02:00And like access to the Internet is a fundamental right like you know I like having air to breathe
1:02:08and to a lesser extent access to our water. I know there are a lot of people who don't have that.
1:02:16How fundamental right is this because a lot of the chest beating that goes on is like how dare you how dare you slide
1:02:23this one down and give me this one fast I want to hold him. I guess the question is will hang on.
1:02:28We have this real sense of entitlement about the Internet and data
1:02:33and access to it is it is it like a robot you know it should be just expect to be able to have it in the first place I
1:02:40think I think you can reasonably call it right in the same way electricity is a right.
1:02:47Once your society is at a certain level of wealth that it doesn't it doesn't make sense to deprive your citizens of.
1:02:57A plumbing or electricity or internet. If your G.D.P. Per capita is above the amount X.
1:03:04So it is not a fundamental right in the same way that you might say they are
1:03:10or that one might make an argument for food being kind of fundamental to being human. Obviously the Internet is not.
1:03:17But if your society is wealthy enough it's just crazy not to ensure that everybody has access to the Internet.
1:03:23So that's a little bit the way I would look at it.
1:03:26But the entitlement thing is interesting because you know the Internet works very differently in countries around the
1:03:32world and until very recently the U.K.
1:03:39Did not have any kind of net neutrality laws and everything was basically sort of fine with U.K. Internet.
1:03:48But the reason things were OK with U.K. Internet has to do with competition regulations. So basically in the U.K.
1:03:56For almost everybody you have a genuine choice. Internet service providers.
1:04:02I think I think in our latest flat
1:04:03when I went to look there was something like seven companies that we could buy our Internet from if we wanted to.
1:04:09And so this is Internet Neutrality matters a lot more in a place like the United States where almost everybody has no
1:04:19choice with their Internet service provider
1:04:21and now this I mean this has to do a lot with regulations in particular countries
1:04:25and I sort of don't want to get into that.
1:04:27But but I would just say that net neutrality it's I think it is very important.
1:04:33But there are circumstances under which it is it is not necessarily the most important thing.
1:04:40If you have genuine competition between Internet providers you can do OK without net neutrality because they all act as
1:04:47a check on each other.
1:04:48But yeah I swear America sometimes tries to make sure it does the worst of everything
1:04:53and then combine it together to make it even worse than anything could be in a kind of amazingly awesome badness
1:05:00synergy.
1:05:01And so both having no competition
1:05:04and then not having any kind of regulations to ensure that the person you're a monopoly provider does a halfway decent
1:05:11job is just the worst of both worlds or just it just makes it absolutely terrible so.
1:05:15So I think that's where yeah that's I think that's the real nub of the matter there because the one thing I think you
1:05:22know from from our discussions over over time is I know you're a big believer in market forces
1:05:28and you know things working out that commercial forces often allowing things to work out.
1:05:35So part of me was thinking you know what square I worried about like Surely the right thing you know if someone's
1:05:41trying to make money they're allowed to make money and if if if they can be undercut they'll be undercut
1:05:47and you know you know the rest. But this is not obviously this is not the case.
1:05:52My experience of the engine is the same as yours in the U.K.
1:05:55In that you know I shop around to get get the best deal I can.
1:06:00And then you point out that this is not the case in the USA and Europe.
1:06:04Yeah I would just say that I think markets are a particular kind of tool
1:06:11and they're not universally applicable in every situation you just have to think about what situations do.
1:06:17Do markets work best under and for for a situation where you have to dig up streets
1:06:27and lay cables in the ground is a huge start of cost to becoming an Internet service provider.
1:06:33The barrier to entry is so large as to effectively exclude any kind of genuine competition
1:06:40and that that can be the problem with the Internet so unless you live in a place that has laws that say.
1:06:46You know we're going to eventually make sure that all of these cables any company can use
1:06:50and figure out a way to make sure that works for everybody.
1:06:54If you don't have that you just you can't start up a competitor Internet service provider if you have like call me
1:07:02when you've dug the roads to every dug ditches to every house in America and laid fiber optic cable inside of them.
1:07:08But once you've once you've done that let me know and then you can start if your internet service provider
1:07:13and I think I think a great example of this is Google in America who is starting up an Internet service provider
1:07:18but it is taking years and it is growing very slowly
1:07:22and from everything I read it is just insanely costly to actually do
1:07:28and they know they can only do it in relatively small cities because of the A bit like having to dig up the roads
1:07:34and all these are things like Can you imagine a city like New York saying OK we're going to shut down the roads for a
1:07:38few months as we allow a whole bunch of companies to lay down competitive cables underneath the street.
1:07:44I mean it just can't happen as you could.
1:07:47There's almost no way it would ever be worth shutting down New York for something like that.
1:07:51So there are situations that are with which market forces just cannot possibly work
1:07:56and this is definitely one of them so.
1:08:00It's it's a tricky situation and you know I just think again it's so it's so hard to explain it
1:08:07but I mentioned it really briefly in the in the video
1:08:10but I had a way longer section that I thought I just I had to cut out so I could possibly do it in the allocated time
1:08:17but I really think that the best comparison for net neutrality is is not the roads but it is the electrical grid
1:08:25and that we have an electrical grid that in every country in the world when you
1:08:31when you plug something in your house the electricity company doesn't have any say over how you're using that
1:08:38electricity on your end.
1:08:41You buy a certain amount of electricity just like you buy a certain amount of data from your internet service provider.
1:08:47And the electricity company it like is none of their business what you do with that.
1:08:50If you're running it you know light bulbs or computers
1:08:52or anything else that's not there that's not their job their job is to deliver electricity
1:08:58and it's a similar situation where we have these regulations that don't allow the electricity company to charge you
1:09:04differently for different things in your house because the barrier to entry for starting up an electrical company
1:09:11building a gigantic power station running electrical lines all over the country is just is just too big right that can
1:09:18never be a competitive market
1:09:20and even if in theory it could be we wouldn't want dozens of electrical wires running into everybody's house.
1:09:26Only one set of which is ever active at a time because that's the company that people have happened to buy their
1:09:31electricity from.
1:09:32So I really think that that that is the best comparison to what the situation is with the Internet
1:09:38and it becomes more understandable about why we have to ensure there are certain protections in this in this area
1:09:45because it's just competition is just never going to happen on its own.
1:09:50In this environment so and your thing
1:09:52and you're creating data like electricity this kind of anonymous same local stuff.
1:10:00But yet flows in it a commodity is what it is you know it's you know one watt is just as good as one bit on the
1:10:07internet is my perspective on it
1:10:09and the electricity company I guess the difference there was the electricity company can do deals with the electricity
1:10:16generators and you know there's a bit of wheeling
1:10:18and dealing going on there you know by this by this many megawatts this year at this price.
1:10:24XETRA And that's kind of isn't that kind of what the space is starting today they're starting to say hang on let's
1:10:31start doing deals with the people generating the data.
1:10:34Netflix and things like that that the only way they can monetize data is is the amount of it
1:10:41or the speed of its flow because it's not what you can do it do it with a power station you can't do the same deal with
1:10:48just the internet.
1:10:50Well there's a whole the thing that's weird about this which I think is a strange framing issue
1:10:55but it's people talking about Netflix's data for example in the United States taking up a huge amount of the bandwidth.
1:11:02Yeah but that's. That's not Netflix is data that is the data that I am trying to download from Netflix.
1:11:11We see internet connection that I paid for like you are purchasing access to the Internet from your I S P.
1:11:20The very notion that that Netflix is sort of getting in the way is just letting you know it's like Netflix isn't
1:11:28flooding the pipes.
1:11:30People are are are sucking data out of Netflix with the kitten with the connection that they have paid for
1:11:37and also the thing that I find particularly galling about this is that the way the data flows on the Internet is that
1:11:45you have times it travels like ninety percent of the way to your house through networks that are just unrelated to the
1:11:51actual person providing you with the Internet at the very end.
1:11:56So they're charging you right to just basically get from the street to your. Front door sometimes where they go.
1:12:02Suddenly it's a huge problem that we have to deliver that quick data Like hey guy this came across a continent
1:12:08sometimes maybe to get to me
1:12:10and you're telling me that suddenly once it gets to my front door it's shockingly expensive to let it get the last
1:12:15thirty feet I mean that's a little a little rich. So that's a problem that I have with this.
1:12:20This framing of the issue that like Netflix is slowing down the Internet
1:12:25when it's actually the problem is that that people are demanding that flicks
1:12:30and bands like that's like saying it's not McDonald's fault you know it's that it's the fat Americans buying all the
1:12:35burgers but that's true but McDonald's have created a demand for something that causes a problem
1:12:42and is not true that sort of Netflix is this you know. Very successful company that is selling video data.
1:12:50It has certainly created a demand for something and that
1:12:54and then there are space have if if it's causing them all these problems which is a debate to be had.
1:12:59But let's say let's call it a problem.
1:13:01Yes that's true because they have two choices they either ramp up the process on the consumers
1:13:07or they go straight to the source of the hamburgers
1:13:10and say look if you're going to stop putting all these hamburgers in the pipes you're going to have to pay something
1:13:15for. Yeah and that's kind of what I've done isn't.
1:13:17Yeah
1:13:18and here's where again I think the problem is that the Internet just works nothing like out that like anything else the
1:13:23Hamburg analogy is sort of OK for the real world
1:13:25but again take it take it back to electricity companies talk about that same same problem right.
1:13:31So imagine it's I don't know it's nineteen and it's the one nine hundred twenty
1:13:38and we have electricity we have electric light bulbs
1:13:40and there's some infrastructure in place that is supplying all the light bulbs across the country with electricity from
1:13:46these electric companies and the power stations.
1:13:48Yet the current situation is a bit like OK as time goes on we're inventing more
1:13:55and more electrical doo hickeys right that we want to plug into the wall and we have a vacuum cleaner.
1:14:00The washing machines and all these other kinds of things.
1:14:03And the electricity companies who are in this analogy the service providers are basically saying that they don't want
1:14:10to build any more infrastructure than the infrastructure that was already there.
1:14:17Why or how it was all the all the wires the poles and importantly the power stations.
1:14:21That's what they don't want to build the power stations are big and expensive.
1:14:25Yeah
1:14:25and so what they do instead is start charging you based on what it is that you want to plug into the wall forcing everything
1:14:33and all the light bulbs in your house to be dimmer because there's more and more Americans with more
1:14:38and more light bulbs so we have to make the light bulb dimmer.
1:14:41Yeah but the problem here is like OK electricity company.
1:14:46I can understand that under some circumstances if the demand for light bulbs you know went way up faster than you were
1:14:51expecting people have more electrical devices than you were expecting.
1:14:55OK maybe there's some scenario under which you would theoretically have to do this.
1:15:00But
1:15:01but the issue here is like as a society what we want to encourage if we want to encourage you electrical company to build
1:15:08more power stations so that everybody has more electricity so that they can do more things with that electricity like
1:15:16my washing machine like your computer is doing work for you all day long. Society as a whole wants more power.
1:15:25And so what you have to do if you're in a situation where markets don't work because normally if there's huge demand
1:15:31right in a market that's what markets do great is they are able to fill that demand.
1:15:36But if you don't have a situation where markets work you have to make sure that the regulations encourage the creation
1:15:44of new infrastructure.
1:15:45And so if you tell electrical companies look we're not going to let you charge different prices just so you don't have
1:15:51to build a power station you can't do that you have to make sure that they build more power stations so I think that is
1:15:57very analogous to the current situation with the Internet search. As providers.
1:16:01Is there whining and moaning about how full their pipes are with all this data from the Internet.
1:16:05At home I could think of is.
1:16:07Hey Internet providers don't you think this is a good sign that people want more Internet
1:16:15and net neutrality is a great kind of regulation that forces them to increase investments in infrastructure.
1:16:23If they can if they can start biasing what data they let into your house at what particular speeds.
1:16:29The only solution for them is that they have to start building more infrastructure which is what you want as a society
1:16:35as a whole because in ten twenty years time I think it's a pretty good prediction that actual data going across the
1:16:43Internet is going to quintuple in that period of time. At the least.
1:16:48So we need to ensure the creation of more infrastructure.
1:16:51We don't want to set up a situation where companies can get away using their same infrastructure forever because they
1:16:59can do this kind of horrible variable pricing
1:17:02and not have to make the investments that we as a society actually want to be made.
1:17:07So that's that's where I think the analogy to other other companies just falls down a little bit is because we want to
1:17:14encourage more pipes. And our only tool is through regulations.
1:17:19So that's that's why we have to keep this net neutrality in place because it acts as an incentive.
1:17:25To encourage the creation of more infrastructure.
1:17:27In addition to just all the fairness issues that come along with net neutrality about biasing one kind of data over
1:17:33another so that's my thoughts on that.
1:17:37If you can do it like that if you're going to be using the law as an instrument to make a commercial company do
1:17:44something.
1:17:45Why factory on the edges Why not just say you have to do it you have to build the government is saying the government
1:17:52society is going to make a commercial entity do something they don't want to do. Fair enough.
1:18:00Why not just pass a law that if you want to keep if you want to keep the cables you've got to build more infrastructure.
1:18:08OK yeah well this is I mean it was such an interesting topic because so many countries handle this in different ways
1:18:13and in some places the Internet is basically nationalized in the same way that that some some countries just they build
1:18:20all the sewer pipes and they build all the Internet pipes and that's just the way it is.
1:18:25And other countries have more hybrid models. I think in the U.S.
1:18:29The the political sentiment is generally very resistance to having the government directly do things I'm not saying
1:18:37that's wrong I'm not saying that's right it depends a lot on the particular situation.
1:18:40Yeah but in America you know Americans generally don't like to expand the scope of government. If they don't have to.
1:18:48So I think.
1:18:50I can imagine a situation where someone said hey you know good idea let's nationalize all the broadband providers.
1:18:56That would not go down well in America.
1:18:58And again I think I think that might be there might be legitimate reasons why you shouldn't do that in a place like
1:19:03America. You know I can definitely understand that kind of argument.
1:19:07So I'm just looking at that as as a certain kind of tool that you have to try and and
1:19:13and basically as as a as a stick move companies in the right direction if you can't control them if you can't control
1:19:21them directly is just force them to do this thing that they don't necessarily want to do.
1:19:27But in America instead the F.C.C.
1:19:30Is very likely to turn around and just say oh net neutrality doesn't exist
1:19:34and now your existing business is way more profitable because you can charge both your customers more
1:19:39and the other companies more and you don't have to make huge infrastructure investments just immediately
1:19:45and so it's all very it's all very depressing in America
1:19:49and I have to say I'm quite glad at the moment anyway to be in the U.K. Where there's actual broadband competition.
1:19:56And as the E.U. I think was just last month you passed a law.
1:20:00Was guaranteeing that there is net neutrality in the European Union as well so it's you know thumbs up for Europe on
1:20:06Internet policy. Thumbs down to America. I mean unless of course I'm wrong and the F.C.C.
1:20:12Chairman comes out on the fifteenth and says I heart net neutrality.
1:20:16But since he is apparently a former lobbyist who used to work for Comcast one of the biggest broadband providers.
1:20:23I'm not super hopeful that he's going to come out with a pro net neutrality stance so it'll be spun as it'll be spun as
1:20:31neutral to be a spin to it to make it sound like it's a good thing
1:20:34but I wouldn't be surprised if they just come straight out
1:20:37and use the same fast lane technology talking point that they are that I see on the news everywhere.
1:20:42You know we want to encourage the creation of fast lanes on the internet so blah blah blah that that's that is kind if
1:20:49I had to put money on the table I would I would be fairly willing to bet that you might hear the exact phrase fastlane
1:20:56in the F.C.C. Announcement on the fifteenth.
1:20:58That's exciting My prediction is bad today or we
1:21:03or you know if it goes against how you would like to see what will be the sort of medium term how the problems start to
1:21:12manifest themselves for both people in America but for also you as a You Tube you do you feel for yourself.
1:21:21Well I don't.
1:21:24I can say that I am not concerned for me personally in terms of my career because you know we put our videos up on You
1:21:34Tube
1:21:35and I'm assuming that Google would be able to pay basically like the ransom money that I as Piers are asking for to make
1:21:42sure that You Tube comes through the pipes quickly.
1:21:44So it I think it's a bit of a it's a bit of an overstatement to say that you're worried about You Tube because You Tube
1:21:53is is an entity that is connected to an incredibly powerful and relatively wealthy company. So I'm.
1:22:00I'm concerned that You Tube is going to go away. I think the bigger issue is it just is stagnation for the Internet.
1:22:09In the longer term so I think that this is based on the way the ruling goes you can expect that internet speeds will
1:22:16continue to just not really grow in America by any significant amount.
1:22:22But I think from a customer's perspective the worst thing is it's for someone who's kind of unaware of these issues.
1:22:29They're not going to notice anything
1:22:31and if if the Internet service provider is slowing down artificially some websites they're not going to think of my
1:22:36Internet service provider as a total jerk.
1:22:38They're just going to think that some particular Web site happened to be really slow
1:22:42and kind of blame those Web sites precisely because the the blast Web sites come through really fast rate so obviously
1:22:49their internet connection is fast. It just so happens that some Web sites are slow.
1:22:53I think that would end up being the general perception from the population.
1:22:57So I have to say I mean but then
1:22:59but then we come down to just let commercial realities of life like successful just like everything else in life if
1:23:06you're successful you go to the top.
1:23:08Will it not be that way with Web sites to the rich Web sites that can pay the ransom.
1:23:14A successful and much the same way that successful airlines that have good marketing campaigns become successful
1:23:21or the same companies that do the best become successful. Is that not fair.
1:23:26The Internet goes the way of everything else in life that the successful rise to the top.
1:23:32Because in the end they have the means to do it via their success and those that are unsuccessful.
1:23:38You know I have to work harder to become successful.
1:23:41Yeah I mean when you pose it like that it sounds like the status quo in terms of human society
1:23:46but from my perspective the most amazing thing about the Internet is it is this incredible meritocracy that we have
1:23:55never seen before and that it just is obviously great.
1:24:00People can start little companies or they can just post stuff on the Internet and so many people can see
1:24:06or use that just immediately
1:24:08and you don't need to pay some kind of gatekeeper to ensure that your new business is able to get the same kind of
1:24:16access as the big boys now.
1:24:18I understand that there are there are a lot of there are always going to be advantages to players with more money.
1:24:25So You Tube I know it does invest in a lot of genuine infrastructure to try to make sure that You Tube in particular is
1:24:32very fast with local data centers and all of these kinds of things.
1:24:36I understand that that that happens
1:24:38but it doesn't change the fact that for lots of teeny tiny companies they can make their Web site
1:24:45and that that has whatever service it is and it can become incredibly popular in a very short period of time
1:24:50and right now they don't have to worry about someone knocking on the door
1:24:54and saying oh you're using too much of these pipes. I think that that is just great it's such a meritocracy.
1:25:00I really like we've never seen before in human history
1:25:04and that is my concern is that losing net neutrality makes it less meritocratic it reinforces the power of existing
1:25:16players more and I don't think that that is good I don't like that kind of influence
1:25:21and in the America I never travel is it not inevitable that you know Sure the internet had to settle fairly to a period
1:25:28for a while
1:25:28but if it's going to survive in a capitalist society to capitalist wealth which a lot of the world is eventually people
1:25:37are going to get wise and think well hang on You Tube in the in from the rules of capitalism for too long
1:25:44and it's time for a reality check.
1:25:47Well again it's capitalism for who is capitalism for companies on the internet is nothing but it's nothing
1:25:54but just like the most pure market competition ever. People can use different.
1:26:00Services on the Internet companies can start up they compete they are born they die it all happens just an incredible
1:26:05incredible way on the Internet.
1:26:09The question is do the people who control the plumbing underneath also get to suddenly compete in also not capitalism
1:26:19but basically predatory monopoly practices which is the just the shocking dark side of what could happen when you
1:26:27when you when you put it like that it sounds a bit mean.
1:26:29It does mean a Terry monopoly
1:26:31but that's what it is where you have someone who has monopoly power over infrastructure
1:26:37and is then able to engage in rent seeking behavior from traffic flowing through those pipes that they have absolutely
1:26:44nothing to do with it.
1:26:45There's no argument that there's capitalism happening at the plumbing level at the level of the app's actual fibres in
1:26:53the ground and no more than it's practical to have capitalism on the level of the roads to your house.
1:26:59It's the same kind of thing you wouldn't be it you wouldn't give some company.
1:27:04The ability to to put toll toll booths on every single road an entire country
1:27:10and then also charge different rates to different trucks that want to pass through those tolls even if they are the
1:27:15same weight but you know one truck is carrying some goods that the company who controls the toll roads doesn't like.
1:27:21That's just crazy
1:27:22and it's not that's not capitalism in any sense of the word so there's two very very different levels here
1:27:28and I think you have just super super efficient super interesting market forces on the level that we interact with
1:27:37which is nothing but good.
1:27:39But the level beneath it is it is not possible to have that same kind of level of interaction.
1:27:44So
1:27:45and also I just have to say here my concern with the American ruling in particular is not so much about the details of
1:27:55this ruling that from our time when we're recording this is going to have.
1:28:00Basically about a week is my concern about what I see often
1:28:03and particularly in American politics is this is this establishing of a precedent that you can then build upon to make
1:28:12things even worse.
1:28:14So again I recommend you go to buy Hart's video if you want all of the details
1:28:18but basically it's like companies of worms I espied a worm their way into the situation where they have all of the kind
1:28:24of legal protections that are what are called common carriers have.
1:28:30They're not responsible for the traffic that flows through their pipes. Then they have all of these legal protections.
1:28:36But throughout all of our history those legal protections have come a particular cost
1:28:40and now they're trying to work their way out of the costs that we as a society want to impose on them
1:28:46and so I just I don't like the precedent setting it. It reminds me of in America the kind of.
1:28:54The initial rulings about money as free speech in America and I remember being really frowning my face at that
1:29:02and it was not it was not because of that particular ruling
1:29:06but because I thought man that ruling is a horrible precedent that allows things to happen later.
1:29:12And that's what we have seen over the years is slowly
1:29:15but surely once you establish that that money is free speech there's all sorts of other constraints that you eventually
1:29:23have to take away.
1:29:23Like in America limits to giving to campaigns
1:29:26or says I Well we don't limit how much someone can talk about a candidate.
1:29:31So if money is just like talking you can't limit how much talking you can do about a can do about a candidate so we
1:29:37can't limit how much money you can give a candidate either.
1:29:40And that's my concern about the Net Neutrality ruling is I do not want to give the local Internet service providers
1:29:47more power to discriminate either in favor or less in favor of the data that is flowing through their pipes.
1:29:54I'm worried about where that goes in future steps once you establish that.
1:30:00President that the companies are allowed to have some kind of control about what flowing through those wires.
1:30:04So but I think my concern comes from.
1:30:07One thing I would say that common carrier point I think is really key to this
1:30:13and that is one thing that I mean I loved your video but that's one thing I really took from VI's video.
1:30:19Yes that's a hit that hit home with me when I sit and formulate any argument you know for the dark side here
1:30:27and think well maybe we don't need net neutrality as soon as that common carrier issue comes up the argument falls to
1:30:35pieces and I think anyone who buys videos of his it is quite long.
1:30:40Eleven minutes not long by my standards but it's quite long for a You Tube video but if you stick with video
1:30:46and get that common carrier part that's a real general killer issue it won't spoil anything here
1:30:53but one of the examples she uses which I think is very illustrative is. The airlines are classified as common carriers.
1:31:02Yes And what that means is that airline airlines have to sell tickets to just whoever is buying airline tickets they're
1:31:09not allowed to discriminate against employees of one particular company or another particular company
1:31:16and one of the benefits of being a common carrier is that you are not responsible for whatever the people are doing
1:31:25with your airplane transportation.
1:31:28So if people are using your airplane to commit a crime that they're getting from one location to another location that
1:31:34they need to you is the airplane company are not responsible for that. Yeah and it's actually really came up from.
1:31:42I want to mention this came up
1:31:44when I was doing so my research was originally that came from telegraph companies in the United States
1:31:49and the whole the whole idea of the common carrier came from there which was that telegraph companies were accepting
1:31:56money to duplicate messages.
1:32:00It's that one company was sending
1:32:02and send their messages to their competitor who was paying to hear all of the correspondence that that their their
1:32:10competitor was up to.
1:32:11So basically leaked paying to wiretap their telegraphs
1:32:15and the telecom companies made the argument saying well these are our wires.
1:32:21So we built this telegraph network we can do whatever we want
1:32:24and if that if that means if someone is willing to pay us to send them a copy of all the communications from particular
1:32:29individual if we think that's good business idea we can totally do that right.
1:32:33And the court stepped in and said no you cannot do that you have to treat all of these messages the same
1:32:40and that's a very at the very notion of a common carrier.
1:32:43And that's that's the same kind of rule to apply to the Internet is to say you are a common carrier of data.
1:32:50And one of the benefits of that means that again if people were using the Telegraph to plan their bank robbery you the
1:32:56telegraph company are not complicit in that you were not helping them conspire because you have to treat all the
1:33:02messages the same that's the benefit of you the telegraph company get so it's the common carrier thing is in the come
1:33:09in the petitions that we have to the F.C.C.
1:33:13You're supposed to use this phrase to say we would like you to classify Internet service service providers as a class
1:33:19two common carrier in the United States which comes with all of these kinds of responsibilities
1:33:24but also these these freedoms from being complicit in what's actually traveling through your network.
1:33:30I would think if you're an Internet service provider you know you don't want to be responsible for anything going
1:33:34through those pipes because it's just terrifying what people might actually be doing on the Internet.
1:33:40So yeah you know they enjoy that enjoy that cloak of protection
1:33:43but I don't want to toe the line in some other aspects of US So yeah yeah that's exactly it.
1:33:49Well hopefully next time we talk about this we'll be talking about it wasn't as bad as we thought.
1:33:56You don't sound hopeful. I.
1:34:00I'm not optimistic is what has what I would say
1:34:03but it is because I look at the structure of the way that this was set up. The F.C.C.
1:34:08Is not it is not a democratic body. You can't you don't elect people to the F.C.C.
1:34:14They're just appointed
1:34:16and you know they don't necessarily have any any meaningful accountability to the general public
1:34:25and so I have a tiny glimmer of hope in that they pre-announced their announcements they said we are going to announce
1:34:32something about the Net Neutrality rulings on the fifteenth.
1:34:35Meantime we're opening it up to a public inquiry taking the temperature that that is that is my only glimmer of hope is
1:34:44that they wanted to see OK how riled are people going to be about this.
1:34:51My hope is that they felt there was there was enough Ryle meant to warrant maybe not doing what they were going to do.
1:34:58Actually I was tracking I used your el tracker to see how many people clicked on the link in my video to go to the
1:35:03F.C.C. and Of course I can't know how many people filled in the form which the F.C.C.
1:35:08Goes way out of its way to scare you into not doing and it makes it super user unfriendly
1:35:15but at the time of the recording about fifty thousand people at least clicked the link in my video to go to the F.C.C.
1:35:22Page I reckon one in one hundred best.
1:35:25Yeah that's kind of that's slightly My guess is well it may be one in a hundred would fill out the actual form
1:35:30but you know I can't I can't know that I I don't know what the results are but I am not optimistic. I expect the F.C.C.
1:35:38To just have some some opening line in their statement about how we really listen to what you said
1:35:43and everybody said they wanted a better Internet.
1:35:45So our regulation changes today are to encourage a better Internet with new fast lanes for you to get you know the
1:35:53content that you want as fast as it can be delivered and yeah that's that's basically what I expect to do well.
1:36:00Next time so I don't I really hope I'm wrong but I'm not optimistic.
1:36:04I feel a bit like I didn't give you much of a hard time and make you duck and wave
1:36:08but that's because I think this is a no brainer.
1:36:11Yeah there is there is no other side to this
1:36:14and yet And yet it might not work out I work out there are a couple of things off topic though I think we should point
1:36:21out as we wrap things up.
1:36:22Yeah I have an admission to make at the end I mean beforehand I wasn't very well
1:36:27and oh you know I wasn't feeling one hundred percent but well enough to broadcast them.
1:36:33I've never realized of the Court of the whole thing on my printed microphone on the computer
1:36:37and not my big push microphone I was asking about the microphones in the beginning.
1:36:44All right well we have to retroactively apologized to the people for your terrible audio quality then I'm sorry man
1:36:50and I was addressing to you as well I feel really bad I like. I realized about fifty minutes ago and.
1:36:57If it was really a worry this stuff is bound to happen eventually so sooner
1:37:01or later I will I will be doing the whole thing talking into my laptop microphone I'll sound terrible one day so don't
1:37:07worry it's going to have everything was this was the first time I didn't do the backup recording on to the camera with
1:37:12a ready of my Because well it was the first time I said I'm not doing it.
1:37:15Yes of course that's when this is going to happen so don't worry.
1:37:19It's really no really mad at me and I know that I don't and I don't even understand how I would be mad.
1:37:25Gosh I can understand. Can I explain one last thing at that net neutrality as well. Yeah you know what.
1:37:32In much the same way I think copyright infringement is the wrong time. I think net neutrality is a bad guy.
1:37:40Yeah it's a really it's a I mean it couldn't be a more neutral less provocative to try to see even got the word neutral
1:37:51in that. Yeah they thought that was a mistake by or genius depending on who came up with that.
1:38:00I'm Stanford came up with that in two thousand to believe but
1:38:04and is he is a pro at the neutrality you see against his progeny.
1:38:08He is pro net neutrality and I should have called it something different and because well terrible things of Kona.
1:38:13Yes but of if I can just just point out I skimmed through the original paper that came across the chart
1:38:19and the paper was just a technical paper talking talking about a particular property of certain networks.
1:38:27This was well before this ever became a political issue.
1:38:31So yeah this was not like someone was trying to coin a term for political debate.
1:38:37Someone was just trying to have a useful technical term to describe certain kinds of networks and in that circumstance.
1:38:44Net neutrality is is a great term but I completely agree with you and I've been in discussions online
1:38:51and in real life with people I I have found that everybody has a hard time with this term.
1:38:56Even people who are technically oriented very easily have run into this issue of M I five for net neutrality
1:39:04or am I against net neutrality. And then in my own video if you can.
1:39:09I only say Net Neutrality I think three times and both are
1:39:13and all the times I very intentionally tried to structure the sentence so that it was super clear that you should be
1:39:21for this B.
1:39:23and It was a video ends with defend net neutrality
1:39:26and I think it starts with a you know an important part of the way the Internet works. Net neutrality.
1:39:32But for most of the video I went with I was thinking about you know what can I say instead
1:39:37and I I was using the term data quality as I was trying to better things a bit
1:39:45but it's not it's still not as true doesn't grab me by the throat the way that free dating does.
1:39:50But well I think there is a better term that was the best I could come up with
1:39:54and almost like fair night maybe fairness and I'm not going to happen just slightly here. The more the.
1:40:00About freebooting the less I like it I hate to tell you this morning about three women less alike
1:40:04and I can't remember who it was because we're just doing this now.
1:40:07But somebody proposed the alternative view jacking which I am the more I think about it I'm way more in favor of the
1:40:13term view jacking
1:40:14and freebooting so I don't I don't think it is sounds too much like some rubbish sort of eighty's maybe I mean I know
1:40:22what you're saying and you jackass.
1:40:24I don't mean to split the vote on this just so briefly after you made it into the urban dictionary
1:40:30and we're going to try to get you into the Oxford English Dictionary.
1:40:33But the more I think about it I think freebooting has the same kind of thing which is my fourth freebooting I like free
1:40:38stuff and that net neutrality has which is again like O M I for the neutral thing.
1:40:44Nor am I against the neutral thing it is it is not a good term politically and data quality is not the greatest
1:40:52but it's better data not fairness I don't know maybe we can ask the listeners if they're still listening since we're
1:40:59just rambling on now what I think would be better than net neutrality
1:41:04and if they can hear what I'm saying on this microphone I apologize apologize gray.
1:41:10I wasn't well and I set my computer up incorrectly and I will be punishing myself you know we talk about next time.
1:41:21Checklists have a lot of checklists. You need it.