Hello Internet

H.I. #11: Stream of Irrelevancy

 

  We keep turning away because the microphone. So I was trying to have something else in front of me. Although actually. [TS]

  And she's one of the have a spare computer under the tape was accounted for. [TS]

  I wish that was original and that's a terrible start for season two. Love. Hello Internet. [TS]

  Season five back from ten and yet we're back for another ten episodes for hello internet. [TS]

  This is again is the funny thing for us to be recording because we just put the last episode up [TS]

  and I know because of some some scheduling uncertainties the next episode will probably not be up until the very end of [TS]

  April. So once again just like at the beginning it feels like we have a little secret. [TS]

  People aren't sure people are guessing. Are there going to be more episodes and that we know. [TS]

  But obviously you dear listener at the moment I'm speaking do not know [TS]

  but of course now that you're listening you do know. [TS]

  So welcome back and I hope you so stick with us for another ten episodes of two dudes talking on hello internet. [TS]

  So I was speculating about why you've decided to go for another ten. [TS]

  And I've come up with a few possible sort of reasons starting with the least likely options first. [TS]

  I thought maybe you just might really enjoy talking to me and you like the sound of my voice [TS]

  and you underestimate yourself. Brady I do really like talking. [TS]

  Well maybe that's maybe that's the whole reason may be so many people have subscribed to the services. [TS]

  I have advertised on the pod cast that we just had to do more like it was just ridiculous the number of people going to [TS]

  audible in square space and using the code the hello internet code and just like they demanded another ten episodes. [TS]

  That is that is the best way to show support for the show at this time [TS]

  and yes I do know from advertisers that they have been happy with the response so far so that certainly helps. [TS]

  I thought maybe you had more to say you want to bring the teaching profession down further with more of your so [TS]

  scathing attacks on the education system. Not really you know we were talking about this before. [TS]

  Like I feel like I don't want to talk about teaching anymore [TS]

  but that you are going to be trying to trick me into some things that I might regret you're going to have to do it [TS]

  today and follow up. [TS]

  But finally I think that the main reason for another ten episodes of them is the sudden [TS]

  and runaway success of a plane crash and X. [TS]

  You have really latched on to this one my friend I can tell you are super excited about having it little segments at [TS]

  the Beacon I haven't been this excited about something since the word freebooting Turbo. [TS]

  So either that link the other day where it's like now in the urban dictionary [TS]

  and I don't buy I was quoted I was like quoted in quite Max about saying it like I was like a source of information. [TS]

  Yes not only not only a source [TS]

  but you were basically the original source of this use of the word so I thought that was very well done to get into the [TS]

  urban dictionary like that Urban Dictionary might be the stepping stone to the Oxford English Dictionary And so this is [TS]

  the start that that quotes illustrious travel through the world of respectable citations. [TS]

  Wow I mean obviously the word already exists. [TS]

  I mean I've appropriated it for other purposes [TS]

  but if we could make it to that that would be the proudest thing that has ever happened to me other than getting into [TS]

  the Guinness Book of Records nothing will ever top that but Oxford English Dictionary would be a close second. [TS]

  There's a two day the two most important books in the world surely get the correct words in the dictionary. [TS]

  I couldn't possibly think of anything more important than that. [TS]

  Now what was the was that the pine things and what's more this periodic table. [TS]

  Oh laws periodic tables which I that's that [TS]

  but that's probably a topic for like a whole episode one day because it's just such a good story. [TS]

  OK OK we'll save that but curious curious listeners can go find that out I'm sure. [TS]

  Cal's just going to Brady's channel search through several thousand videos and eventually you will find it. [TS]

  Yeah just watch all of them and you come across I've actually got some follow up. OK follow up. [TS]

  Now I know you don't want to talk too much more about teaching but you going to have to. OK so I have to. [TS]

  So you may remember in episode nine I mentioned my sister is a sort of a teacher [TS]

  and yes quite high up in the teaching world these days she's pretty important. [TS]

  And she had to listen to Episode nine [TS]

  and she has also listen to episode ten now so I wanted to share some of her thoughts. [TS]

  OK I would say she wasn't massively happy with everything you said. [TS]

  And the funny thing was the day I sent it to a she had just come back from Iraq. Stan the world education summit. [TS]

  She had just been let over the world's best teachers [TS]

  and all the people who think teaching is really really important so I was I think she was on a real high [TS]

  and feeling really good about teaching English are going to be recommending me as a speaker on of their future call [TS]

  because the funny thing was if you can say you're a mouse I can't believe I've even used Gray's videos in the classroom [TS]

  so she's used to U.K. One a few times in lessons in that but I think I think she might put an end to that now. [TS]

  Anyway she was she was good spirited about it but she did feel pretty passionately and sent me a bit of a rant [TS]

  and she agreed with a few things she disagreed with a few things [TS]

  and that was one thing she was particularly passionate about and that was when you kind of said that. [TS]

  It's a sort of scared or it's sort of an unwritten rule that you don't talk about students not being brought [TS]

  or you know not being particularly capable [TS]

  and you know beyond you know beyond beyond being able to attain certain levels. [TS]

  And she said to choose do you talk about that and it's actually very important that they do talk about it [TS]

  and it's one of the most important things they do. [TS]

  This kind of differentiation and and not only using data [TS]

  but teachers should always be talking about what they think students are capable of [TS]

  and what their abilities are so they can ensure that they are not under performing even the ones who aren't going to [TS]

  become brain surgeons. [TS]

  You know they need to make sure that people are retaining what they're capable of attaining whether [TS]

  or not it is academic greatness or just a low level and teaches. [TS]

  I'm always talking about the abilities of their students and who's good at what. [TS]

  Yeah little things here the first is again like we discussed in the previous episode it's hard you can't go back [TS]

  and edit what you were saying. I sort of tried to make it clear there but maybe it didn't come across. [TS]

  When teachers talk amongst themselves obviously they talk about you know boy that kid is not the sharpest knife in the [TS]

  drawer you know that that is that is standard kind of teacher talk. [TS]

  What I was what I was trying to get at a little bit is that sometimes pressure from the not the teacher level [TS]

  but the management level of refusing to acknowledge the shall we say the limits of some children from the managerial [TS]

  level and that that that's kind of the pressure that I was referring to. [TS]

  I mean my sister is at that management level there but she she felt strongly she people differently. [TS]

  But yes she wasn't a manager at the school year etc Another thing I put up with was. Or you P.G. P.G. [TS]

  CA that the conversion P G C That was it. [TS]

  I mentioned that and she and I you know your experience of that [TS]

  and how kind of you know the the bright eyed bushy tailed contenders for often the ones who fell away with all the hard [TS]

  bitten cynics like you with the ones he went on to actually become teachers [TS]

  and show you one of the things she's she said a really important part of that course is where you are placed [TS]

  and what Mentos you're given [TS]

  and a lot of those brighter people are thrown into some real Lion's Den particularly London scolds [TS]

  or given shoddy mentors and that that is probably the most important thing she said. [TS]

  When when people are coming up through the ranks to become a teacher what they're exposed to [TS]

  and who they are given at that important time very important. I that one hundred percent. [TS]

  I did say a little bit to people but I have to say when I was at the P.T.C. [TS]

  Course there were two mentors in particular that I had one of the university [TS]

  and then one who was at the first school that I taught at and. [TS]

  I think it is very very unlikely that I might have made it through that course without their support. [TS]

  So you have those those people mattered quite a lot the mentors that I was with so I know I'm not going to argue. [TS]

  I'm not going to argue that at all. [TS]

  And obviously I don't know the school that every everybody else went to [TS]

  but I was at schools with some of some of the other students who were on that university course with me as well. [TS]

  But yeah especially once you get to a school [TS]

  and you're teaching for the first time in the person that you're with then is is incredibly important because yes the [TS]

  first few lessons can be quite crushing. I remember my first chemistry lesson was just incredibly devastating. [TS]

  And my mentor just handled it perfectly by just treating it as that's the way it always is right the first time it is [TS]

  just. [TS]

  Always a disaster and let's talk about that [TS]

  and you know that's the perfect kind of attitude to take the I owe a lot to my first two mentors in my P.T.C. [TS]

  Another thing we didn't discuss and my sister reminded me of a couple of funny stories from our family. [TS]

  One in particular I'll share because I really enjoy it and that's the issue of motivation for students. [TS]

  My sister my sister my mother I should say was a very good student. [TS]

  My Her sister my auntie was a not a very good student [TS]

  and was always bottom of the class that she was obsessed with horses that she would run around the school yard [TS]

  pretending to be a horse. [TS]

  And once you put a blanket over the front fence of the house and to sit on the blanket potential was riding a horse [TS]

  and all at what for the sake of the story I was say nineteen because I'll be funny but I'm sure he was a little bit OK. [TS]

  Anyway my she really wanted a horse you know what to do go doesn't want a horse. [TS]

  There was no chance she was going to get one. [TS]

  My their father My grandpa said to her when you if you come top of the class I'll buy you a horse. [TS]

  Confidence in the knowledge there was no chance she would ever come to I think you know what happened next. [TS]

  The only reason you know in this story is because of what probably happened with a head down she worked like a Trojan [TS]

  and came top of the class and my completely flabbergasted grandfather had to buy her a horse next year. [TS]

  Bottom of the class again and for going to class. [TS]

  It's what would have been great motivation is I've bought you the horse [TS]

  but to keep the horse from the glue factory you need to stay at the top [TS]

  and I bet she will see this is also a bill really is in the contract here because we didn't expect that there was going [TS]

  to ever happen but I bet maybe if the glue factory was on the horizon she would have still been tough. [TS]

  Let me read what my sister at the end came out just so we've got something on the record in our podcast she said. [TS]

  Well of years in tough areas in the U.K. South London and I loved it. [TS]

  I love inspiring students to achieve more than others think they can Bay As a side note you know she pointed out some [TS]

  of them have just become you know pizza delivery people or something but that's more than what was expected of them. [TS]

  A lot of them of become the first in their family to go on to further education. [TS]

  I'm very lucky to get up in the morning and I love my job and I know we different every day. [TS]

  Whatever people say about teachers. [TS]

  Nothing Bates all those Facebook messages and notes I get all the time from ex-students saying thank you very much. [TS]

  He believed in me and you changed my life. So there we go. Now we've got a few links here. [TS]

  One of them was an article that I think I said you are saying on the B.B.C. News website. [TS]

  We read about the hours that teachers work. [TS]

  Yes yes yes and yes he sent that to me [TS]

  and I was just looking it over before the show I was flabbergasted by this I can't believe that those numbers are [TS]

  accurate. [TS]

  OK So do you have the other listeners what it was like about every head take his which I guess is the top of the hate [TS]

  and the boss on a sixty three point three I was awake at the end for our American listeners that's basically the [TS]

  equipment of the principal of the high school is what they're talking about a second primary classroom teachers fifty [TS]

  nine point three hours secondary school teachers in the classroom fifty five point seven hours per week. [TS]

  They said long hours. Is this true. [TS]

  Well yes before we before we started you were doubting the veracity of these numbers [TS]

  and can you why do you why do you doubt these numbers. Well because they're very long hours. [TS]

  My mom was a school teacher. [TS]

  I lived with my mom so it's not like I have not been exposed to working schoolteachers [TS]

  and yet she could work at home you know and sometimes she had to work not marking things [TS]

  and I don't know it just seems like a lot of that was because you know I was a day. [TS]

  Before I was awake to have to have to add another twenty hours means you're having to do another four hours every not [TS]

  every day the way I'm not on I'm not going to I don't want to make the teachers angry at me you want to make them angry [TS]

  at me. You want me to say the things that I know you might agree with. [TS]

  Off air on air no faces numbers of come from a survey that's been run by the Department for Education. [TS]

  Yeah you know this is this is where it's come from I'm sure we'll put a link in the show I know it's you know you [TS]

  retain. How many hours a week were you working. [TS]

  This is the key question here is partly how [TS]

  or who are the surveying so I will say that my experience beginning as a teacher was that my first year I would say I [TS]

  was probably working more than sixty hours a week as a teacher my first year [TS]

  but that's because teaching is a is a job that comes with a lot of overhead [TS]

  and infrastructure that needs to be set up so you're going through the lessons for the first time. [TS]

  There's so much more to do [TS]

  and I would say near almost every waking hour of some sort in those the first academic year was spent working towards [TS]

  teaching at some point it was just terrible [TS]

  and I had a little I had a little friend at my first school who was also in her first year as a teacher I forget what [TS]

  the proper term is it's you Newt and cutie. [TS]

  So you're a newly qualified teacher but you have this probationary year and so we were in cuties together [TS]

  and that was also very helpful for staying in the job to have somebody else who was going through it at the same time [TS]

  as I was. We would sometimes talk about the horrors of you spend all day at school and you spend. [TS]

  All evening preparing for stuff [TS]

  and since I know everybody loves to hear about dreams this might be the one time in life with these mentioned dreams [TS]

  the horror of it is [TS]

  when your whole life is obsessed by something your brain only has one thing to work with for dreams at night [TS]

  and so I would end up dreaming about teaching and then wake up in the morning [TS]

  and have this awful feeling like I felt like I just worked for eight hours. [TS]

  But I haven't and now I need to get up and go and do it [TS]

  and it was it was it was it's a very trying time for newly qualified teachers is that that first year. [TS]

  So yeah if I was designing a survey where I want to make sure I get those numbers as high as possible I would try to [TS]

  survey teachers who were as new as possible because that that dropoff is very quick. [TS]

  It's front loaded it's it's very front loaded and then in subsequent years you start recycling worksheets [TS]

  and unison plans and so in subsequent years you start is like me [TS]

  and I mean this is rounded off here at let's say fifty five sixty hours I would say that this number was more accurate [TS]

  for my second year as a teacher you know sort of drop dropping it down [TS]

  and then again I'm trying to trying to live censor my thoughts here but but then if I only Here's Hughes. [TS]

  After your second year everything is not brand new. [TS]

  There's two paths maybe the teachers start to take [TS]

  and this is not necessarily a teacher specific problem I think this is a kind of knowledge economy problem. [TS]

  Many people even you know yourself and myself have jobs where it's hard to pinpoint when something is done. [TS]

  What like what does finished actually look like. [TS]

  And so for your videos you can always make the editing a little bit tighter or for my videos I can. [TS]

  We've researched them a little bit more. [TS]

  And teaching is a job that has an endless amount of boundaries that are like this you can always mark a paper a little [TS]

  bit more thoroughly you can always spend a little bit more time preparing the next lesson. [TS]

  You do have a deadline and I eat like you have to eventually give the lesson time in the same room in a set [TS]

  and there are deadlines [TS]

  but I think there's too many decisions with a lot of the kind of work for a teacher that can that can stretch you are [TS]

  definitely making things better [TS]

  and this is this is where there are super dedicated teachers who both market papers incredibly thoroughly [TS]

  or I think for example the thing that I hated the most as a teacher was I was writing up profiles of students for for [TS]

  Americans like the report card [TS]

  but they would have to be a long comment at the bottom you know with all sorts of remarks about how the student was [TS]

  doing it in the class [TS]

  and you know from my perspective as a physics teacher it's sort of like the only thing I care about is the number on [TS]

  the test. All of the rest of it is sort of irrelevant and in a physics class. [TS]

  But so those profiles for example are something that you can spend an enormous amount of time on [TS]

  and you can make profiles very good and very in-depth. [TS]

  So because there's a lot of that kind of work I think there is there is room to always be legitimately making your [TS]

  stuff better but it can end up just sucking in an enormous amount of time out of your life [TS]

  and if you do this is a man I wish I could edit the next sentence and I'm going to say well destroyed it. [TS]

  I'll just try to do my best. [TS]

  If people hear a big blanket I mean that's a how to put this if you think that you are genuinely make. [TS]

  Being a difference in students' lives. [TS]

  It is not an unreasonable calculation to spend an enormous amount of time trying to make everything that relates to [TS]

  your teaching better. [TS]

  I get that it's a rational decision to improve things to spend an extra hour making something five percent better. [TS]

  Yeah that's not crazy. [TS]

  If you're starting from the proposition that you are genuinely influencing the rest of someone's life you know that's a [TS]

  huge upside. [TS]

  And so you know your investment of time now pays dividends over the lifetime of an entire other human being [TS]

  and so that's why I don't necessarily doubt these these numbers. [TS]

  Well I mean I always if you ever ask someone How many hours a week they work I think you should always subtract five [TS]

  and the lake is for you know people inflating their own. [TS]

  Yeah yeah that's that's true people if it's a self survey [TS]

  and you're overestimating then you know just just by natural [TS]

  but I don't I don't these numbers don't strike me as as wildly potentially off you know I don't know they don't strike [TS]

  me as just totally crazy because because I think as as we can kind of see. [TS]

  Well Yet the question is what kinds of people are teachers. [TS]

  Do they do teachers think they're making differences in students' lives I would say you know if you ask teachers the [TS]

  answer is generally yes. [TS]

  And so it's not unreasonable to spend a lot of additional voluntary time on that kind of on that kind of work you know [TS]

  I mean I wasn't I wasn't questioning that kind of motivation from there I was just more amazed by the number of hours [TS]

  but then again you know when I was a boy playing cricket [TS]

  and computer games all day I was probably blissfully ignorant to the ten hours a night my mum spent slaving over tests [TS]

  and writing lesson plans. [TS]

  I've apologized to her and all the other teachers because it sounds like they are working as a house. [TS]

  The There are a couple of little minor things I had here in the follow up on the notes that we made before. [TS]

  One was a talk by Bryan Caplan which I think you were going to raise. [TS]

  Oh yeah yeah I just want I just want to mention it for you to listen to someone basically give a better explanation [TS]

  than I gave about the importance of what's called the signaling in education so this is the guy I mention he's an [TS]

  economist who I was talking about some of his work about predicting graduation rates from university based on what you [TS]

  know about a student going into university [TS]

  and he knew someone in the red flags that he was on a podcast called Econ Talk recently. [TS]

  And the pod cast that is run by an economist who interviews other economists I'm a subscriber I do quite like it [TS]

  and it's an excellent podcast because you you get to listen to people who maybe you don't agree with explain themselves [TS]

  in the fall which is rare in the world sometimes. [TS]

  I'm looking for the link in the show notes if you want to hear more from the professional economist side about how [TS]

  signalling works [TS]

  and research into what is the intrinsic value of schools you can follow this link in the show notes go listen to that [TS]

  episode I think it's about an hour or so long discussion and I think it's worth following up on [TS]

  and if you prefer just to hear too much as you have absolutely no qualification in economics to keep listening to [TS]

  internet. Yes that's exactly right. If you want to hear to dude's just kind of like talk about whatever. [TS]

  Oh I was a teacher once and here's my anecdotal thoughts there. [TS]

  My mum my mum was a teacher when I was a little boy so let me preach to you know that what it's like to be a teacher [TS]

  but my anecdotal experience counts for nothing in the world of science [TS]

  but I guess if you want to hear it this is the place for you Lou. [TS]

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  Squarespace everything you need to create an exceptional website. We've also had an artist at work in the red. [TS]

  I understand. [TS]

  Yes I just I wanted to put together how Crawley I think is the way to say it is a fan on the Reddit [TS]

  and also on Twitter. [TS]

  I'm assuming it's a he [TS]

  but not one hundred percent sure you never know on the Internet has been Mima flying the pod cast in the most recent [TS]

  episode and putting together just some funny pictures with the stick figure C.D.P. [TS]

  Gray [TS]

  and then a summary of what I was saying in the in the episode so I'll put a link to the one that I like the most from [TS]

  the last episode which was just says as a some it's a summary of my position from last time it says the more you want [TS]

  to be a teacher the more you won't want to be a teacher. [TS]

  Which I thought was a very funny way of summarizing some of the points I was making last time. So thanks to him. [TS]

  What was this in the read hunt and peck. Someone asked if you were a hunt and peck typist. Is that the case Brady. [TS]

  I'm guessing that they thought so based on that little moment where we can hear you typing so I thought I was casting [TS]

  aspersions on me that I would just be that type of person. [TS]

  But they were basing it on evidence [TS]

  and I saw that question I think you know it did seem to take him a long time to type whatever he was typing. [TS]

  Are you a hunt and peck typist. What do you think. Like from what you know of me. [TS]

  Here's the problem I always just assume that everyone can touch type [TS]

  and I'm always surprised to discover people who cannot touch type so I would just without even thinking of it just [TS]

  assume that you could. [TS]

  It but I feel a strong moment of doubt here that you are not a touch typist [TS]

  but you would have to be since you worked at a newspaper and you had to write quickly. [TS]

  So my my emotions are thinking maybe you're not a touch typist but my logical guess would be that you are. [TS]

  So which half of me is wrong here. Gray You should always trust your feelings and emotions. [TS]

  Oh is that the lesson I'm learning today. Go with your head I am a hunt and peck. [TS]

  I cannot believe that I can believe I trust your feelings they do you just. [TS]

  I got how do you survive in the world you know I'm going to write on. [TS]

  I mean I thought of this if you queue to get by just fine. [TS]

  But now every time we instant message back and forth we're going to have to feel sorry for you. [TS]

  Always they're trying to find you know the letter S. On the keyboard I don't know where it is. [TS]

  One eye with the SES it's up to the I think the general area and then [TS]

  and then once my hands moving in that general direction you know light travels very fast. [TS]

  But but so you're looking at the keyboard while you're typing. Yes that's sad. [TS]

  What are you doing about reading a book or something. I'm looking at the screen while I'm typing. [TS]

  Oh I know what's on the screen because of the buttons on the table and [TS]

  when you say it like that it's hard to argue with. They think there's something new about you today. [TS]

  Yeah you just think that little bit less is gradually eroding of I'm definitely a rating because they wouldn't have [TS]

  noticed that I am slightly disappointed I must admit I thinking of picking and and clicking [TS]

  and things like that I just wanted to quickly clarify clarify I just wanted to round off a point I started making in [TS]

  Brady's paper cuts in the last effort. [TS]

  Which was a bit mask leaking that I was hearing on radio show is the reason I wanted to bring it up this partly because [TS]

  this is become a problem with the advent of digital radio which is something I didn't get across I do most of my radio [TS]

  listening in the car and I've always had a pretty crummy analog radios [TS]

  and I've only got a digital radio in my car for the first time recently [TS]

  and that is what has opened up this world of distracting noises and mass cooking. [TS]

  So it's not always great it's not all positive it's not always good to hear everything. [TS]

  and you know it's the same with H.D.T.V. Like everyone so H.D.T.V. Is wonderful but there are a whole bunch of T.V. [TS]

  Shows and problems and things that have come along as a result of that like I know the fake blood they're using in T.V. [TS]

  Shows had to be sort of completely changed because all of a sudden blood didn't really warn H.D. [TS]

  T.V.'s and a whole bunch of sets for T.V. [TS]

  Shows had to be rebuilt because Little joins and seams and things that used to get away with on children's T.V. [TS]

  Shows were suddenly these glaring problems. Sometimes less is more. And I don't get it. [TS]

  Well if you like if you like analog radio so much you can choose to listen to analog radio can't you get rid of your [TS]

  fancy digital radio player because people start taking their cars to let audio shop saying can he get this like really [TS]

  expensive X. and Radio and chuck it. Is there not a fuss I have no I don't nothing about cars. [TS]

  Well of course I'm not going to do that [TS]

  and you do need to go out Why are you not going do that because the digital one is better because the voice because you [TS]

  hear the voice more clearly. So it is better. There are pluses and minuses. [TS]

  OK OK now I'm not going to get away with this right this distress because people always go oh there's pluses [TS]

  and minuses. Yes but I almost never do the pluses and minuses in any situation. [TS]

  Balance perfectly given doesn't mean I can winge about the minuses I know that you will enjoy about the minuses but [TS]

  when you say. They always not always better. [TS]

  What you really mean is there's still some negative aspect that I don't like you [TS]

  but what's interesting is that it's a new negative aspect. Isn't that interesting. [TS]

  It's like it's not there it's not like they didn't quite make it better by enough. It's a whole new problem came along. [TS]

  I find that fascinating and we're doing a show here and weather and so I should have something to talk about [TS]

  but I feel like my brain just has no response to this. This line of reasoning from you it's just. [TS]

  Well that's because I'm completely correct. [TS]

  I mean if you disagree you would certainly say something you know of course a new tech is going to be new problems with [TS]

  new technology the only way. Yes but your new problems are always better than your old problems. [TS]

  It's a handling that's interesting it's like oh that's a that's a broad statement. [TS]

  Well I'm going to say it with regards to technology that is generally true all technological advances are positive is [TS]

  what you're saying. I would say that. [TS]

  Now this is a debating problem with you you only need to find one counter example here. Like a nuclear bomb. [TS]

  Well I know you could argue for a nuclear bomb. Yeah it is. Here's the way you look at it is that the the. [TS]

  It's that you have to look at the sum value of the progress [TS]

  and so I think at any particular stage a certain amount of progress have negative features but in general [TS]

  when you're summing up of the pluses and minuses the pluses just clearly went out all the time. [TS]

  That's that's that's what I would say. So the world is a better place. Yeah yeah. [TS]

  It's like wow a camera saw I saw some info graphic on. Got it a little while ago. [TS]

  I think it was from the Gates Foundation [TS]

  and it was a graphic showing how people die around the world just just globally [TS]

  and the interesting thing was to see in the first world kind of areas you're talking about death from cancer [TS]

  and heart disease [TS]

  and the discussion in the comments about the second hole why you know Why is cancer killing so many people in America [TS]

  and the answer like Why is cancer killed so many people is because malaria doesn't kill so many people. [TS]

  I guess as you solve certain kinds of problems you're going to have new problems that that like that is just the way [TS]

  the world works [TS]

  but I still say on balance your new problems are problems you would much rather have than your old problems. [TS]

  So you think if you could if there was some way to measure like the happiness of people or of society [TS]

  and you applied that now it would come out. [TS]

  It would constantly be rising like someone in the eighteen hundreds of the mid nineteen hundreds is less happy now see [TS]

  this is where I might be the topic and how long we talk about this this this of this on the drives me crazy. [TS]

  Happiness is so tricky and I'm always just kind of appalled by people who think backwards in time [TS]

  and imagine how great it was back then you know with their out houses [TS]

  and their cholera because there was a simpler life. [TS]

  Yeah but I get annoyed by people like you who say because I'm going outside to go to the toilet [TS]

  and didn't have an i Pad They're not capable of being as happy as I am now is that what I'm saying. [TS]

  I think humans have a natural bias to think that they used to be happier than they actually were [TS]

  and then this is also just within a single human lifetime. Well I think there's a bias the other way. [TS]

  You're right and that's why we have terms like the good old days. [TS]

  Yeah but there's also a real bias to think because we live longer and because. [TS]

  Yes we have mobile phones where like somehow superior or better than people who are only in black [TS]

  and white photos in a day. Well I mean being alive is superior to being dead. [TS]

  I think that's a sort of hard to argue and have less points less of the minuses. [TS]

  Yeah I guess it does hurt me with that [TS]

  but now I think we've got to fix it you can see it's like your line of reasoning sometimes physically hurts me [TS]

  and I know you sometimes you do it just you know what I tell myself [TS]

  but people just people just tend to think that they used to be happier than they currently are [TS]

  and there's there's some. [TS]

  I have again this is this is where running a pocket like this we weren't intending on talking about this I can't [TS]

  possibly research all these things but I have looked at some [TS]

  and in the past some interesting research about happiness [TS]

  and it seems like this is a hot topic in psychology now I don't know if that's if that's actually the case but. [TS]

  There are just some very interesting experiments that show how people's self assessment of their current happiness can [TS]

  be just weirdly off from how they report their actual level of happiness [TS]

  and the way I've seen these things are usually with with the people crisping the study will be text messaged randomly [TS]

  and they'll have to rate on a scale from one to five how happy they actually feel at that particular moment [TS]

  and you compare that with with self reported descriptions of their happiness leader about that actual time you can see [TS]

  that there's there's like a big difference between the reported happiness and then the measured happiness [TS]

  and that the biggest difference I saw on this one issue can make people dislike me a lot. [TS]

  Talking about new parents two parents of of of newbie. Yes and that as opposed to parents of a baby. [TS]

  I guess I guess I mean it is time parents is what I was [TS]

  and that you had your first kid that the reported happiness later just does not match at all the data at the time so [TS]

  you know if you randomly ask in the first year of new parents how happy they are you always get a like oh God I'm so [TS]

  tired and my whole life it just seems like it's falling apart everything is miserable. [TS]

  Yeah and then [TS]

  but six months later if you ask someone oh how happy were you are you know it was a magical time in there ARE YOU can [TS]

  you get all these new experiences [TS]

  and everybody does this a lot with all kinds of things I think this is also why people remember you know past periods [TS]

  in their life. As happier than they currently are. [TS]

  And an interesting thing as well is that people level of happiness doesn't really change very much over the course of [TS]

  their life [TS]

  and so their self description is is weirdly out of whack with what we sort of know about people's levels of happiness [TS]

  is that they don't change all that much [TS]

  but people have a real perception that there are there are variables so I think his history on this whole scales kind [TS]

  of follows the same way that people imagine how amazingly happy people were in the past [TS]

  and the answer is like people in the past probably actually weren't that differently happy from people now [TS]

  but they had just worse problems to deal with than if I were dying of cholera whereas I'm complaining about mouse [TS]

  clicks on that interaction [TS]

  or any of the audio fidelity on my digital radio was too high you know that it's just terrible action what's right [TS]

  and meanwhile you know two hundred years ago you have people needing to give birth to Chen children so that two of them [TS]

  will live like this is. [TS]

  But [TS]

  but you know the actual random happiness of of individuals might not have been wildly different I don't know I don't know [TS]

  if there's any or if you can even be done. [TS]

  We kind of guesstimating about people's happiness in the past I don't I don't know if you could try to do an analysis [TS]

  of letters or literature or anything like that but anyway I'm always I'm with the technology. Give me more. [TS]

  Faster sooner. Because you're right it was fear what. There you go that's the end of follow up. [TS]

  When did something you would have hated my US because we spent two solid days going through it [TS]

  and take shots which is not one of my favorite things in the world today. [TS]

  Just like just looking at old stuff and little knick knacks and treasures and old furniture and out maps and. [TS]

  I love all that stuff and I know you do [TS]

  and misunderstand under certain circumstances I could find that sort of activity enjoyable [TS]

  but the question is where you going into the shops looking to purchase items to bring back to the Muslim of your life. [TS]

  Yes I was shocked they were at museums or antique shops I mean there is a lot of just looking and isn't that wonderful. [TS]

  Are you going to buy. [TS]

  Thanks for coming down and you don't actually have to buy a few things I have been in shops many a time [TS]

  and not bought a few things. It's remarkably easy to do. [TS]

  Well you have when you have led a discipline [TS]

  and if I say something lovely I'm like that would be lovely just to have this intent have near me just to have just [TS]

  have as a burden. [TS]

  Hell how many square feet is your house if you if you want to say that the main thing stopping me is the fact I have [TS]

  absolutely no idea either [TS]

  and I just feel like this is a thing that some people say requested a number what would it have meant they would have [TS]

  meant nothing [TS]

  but I felt like maybe the maybe the listeners could have some estimate of how much stuff could possibly fit in the [TS]

  House that the that is that big I don't know probably fit. A lot of stuff in my house at the moment. [TS]

  Yeah well you have fit a lot of stuff in your house at the moment. [TS]

  You sent me that picture and I could see all the foot the antlers on her wall and things like that [TS]

  and again I what I want to once again just be super clear I have no problem with someone having an image in their home [TS]

  because your home should be a place that you like and I want you to have a place that you like crazy. [TS]

  It's hard to like that when you're like making little jokes about it. [TS]

  No You know if you ever get a tell you all will be forgiven if you ever actually agreed to come over for the day [TS]

  and hang out I told you actually well it's just a question of getting up there [TS]

  but we've already said we're going to go to the tick together and yes throw stuff out [TS]

  and apparently you have plans to make a video for our exciting day to the tip. No I have no Someone suggested it. [TS]

  OK OK I'm happy to make a video I think it would be nice. [TS]

  Maybe we could do a podcast from the tip for people of love that people up to they're going to be found. [TS]

  But OK But I guess I just want to be clear I do not I do not judge other people design aesthetic that just if you're [TS]

  asking me questions so you can do the whole the whole thing with a picture where you put circles around all the things [TS]

  that you thought were rubbish in the house because no but no [TS]

  but the context of that was Boy look at this beautiful house that they ruined with all of these things I can say you [TS]

  don't judge but you say they ruin to their house but but the presumption is like it's ruined for me. [TS]

  Right I guess if I were to live here all of those circles are the things that I would just get rid of [TS]

  but I I feel like I have like I'm a very easygoing live and let live kind of guy. [TS]

  If you're doing something [TS]

  and that thing makes you happy if it's decorating your house with stuff from all of your chips who's going to argue [TS]

  with that if you're happy if you're you're happy it's your house that's also like that that's great. [TS]

  I can and I'll visit your house and I Tell me about your stuff. [TS]

  What's the story behind these antlers you know what's the deal with these little statues on the on the fireplace. [TS]

  That's all great. It is a different question of if I were to buy your house and you left all that stuff there. [TS]

  How much of it would I keep I don't think it's not criticizing to couch it in the terms you just couched in I still [TS]

  think is criticizing. No it's people have people have a different people have difference of opinion. [TS]

  And plus I don't go into people's homes [TS]

  and start pointing at all the things going like mad to get rid of all the stuff right this is only come up on the five [TS]

  cats because I think you asked about it or I don't I don't even remember how it came up [TS]

  but I this is a topic of discussion here but I don't go into someone's house [TS]

  and start down voting all of their personal possessions. That's not the way it works. [TS]

  What would you come to an antique shop. Do you ever go into men take shops. [TS]

  Yeah yeah I like them little museums you can treat them like little museums [TS]

  but I mean I've done a couple of road trips across America and I mean it's always just just quirky weird local shops [TS]

  or you know and stuff like that I have no problem going and visiting that stuff [TS]

  and taking a look around I think it's super interesting [TS]

  but I'm just I'm the guy in the store with no intention to actually purchase anything have you ever bought something [TS]

  crazy like some weird object even if you regret it afterwards. [TS]

  And any more context for this I quit What do you mean like Have you ever bought what you would describe as a knick [TS]

  knack or a novelty item or an old you know I mean I guess I was a you know I was a kid [TS]

  and did stuff like that you know we have stuff that just totally worthless you know [TS]

  but you're also a kid like you don't know anything as a kid [TS]

  but I think in my in my adult life I try to look around the room that I'm in. [TS]

  Have you ever bought something is and I doubt that to borrow a term from last time you regretted. [TS]

  Have you ever made a bad purchase. [TS]

  Now whenever I can I can feel like there's any any regret that I've had over purchase. [TS]

  Really you've never been to the purchase is going to quickly factor to our definition of grand like the data are [TS]

  available at the time and yet so it's like I have bought stuff that doesn't work out [TS]

  but I don't own filled with regret and sit down and feel all sad about it well that didn't work [TS]

  and now I'm going to get rid of this thing because it doesn't work. Yeah. When looking around. [TS]

  It's because like this bothers you and I think you always know more than you are bothered by my hunting [TS]

  and pecking typing that's just a surprise mixed with disappointment I guess I just feel like maybe I'm missing out on [TS]

  some of the texture of life. I am very happy with my life pretty well as long as you know happiness good for you. [TS]

  Yeah see that's exactly it and let live. [TS]

  I'm a very happy guy you're a very happy guy I presume we're both very happy guys. [TS]

  If for some crazy reason we were renting a house together we would then have to have some disagreement over how that [TS]

  house a protector a man actually whether that be really that you couldn't you can decorate your room the way you want [TS]

  and all the common areas are decorated the way I want I think that was that that would settle it. [TS]

  You sound you sound like a wife. Are you ready for Freddie's Papercuts. [TS]

  My and my ever the digital radio thing was in your paper less expense. [TS]

  Our expanding papercut that they will follow up now it's going to be a breakaway five you know. [TS]

  So here is here is my paper cut this week. [TS]

  Yeah it is when you follow someone on Twitter and they have whatever software [TS]

  or gimmicks that people have to know that you've done this they then contact you [TS]

  and confront you about why you once followed them. Really. Have you had this happen to you. Yes How do you do that. [TS]

  I complained about on the program if you can. [TS]

  Well I don't know if it depends on the reason I had followed them and there are many reasons on to put it on file. [TS]

  I know and it's not that sometimes it's not personal sometimes it's just managing certain things [TS]

  and I mean one of the ones I've been followed recently was simply a case of just management I was unfollowing them from [TS]

  one account but I still follow them from a different account and I just didn't want them clogging multiple strains [TS]

  but you know sometimes you can follow someone because they're a bit too a bit too active and they're crowding out. [TS]

  Try to get your Twitter stream and [TS]

  but anyway I think I don't think one should be confronted about this is the Twitter versus Facebook topic [TS]

  and I the reason I love Twitter is because it is not Facebook. [TS]

  It doesn't come with any of the or at least I don't think it should but apparently some people do [TS]

  and doesn't come with the kind of social obligations that Facebook does. [TS]

  If you make that one hundred to none of this expectations that you people you know in real life [TS]

  or your work colleagues or everybody uses you on Facebook. [TS]

  Whereas with Twitter it's you're following people who you think are interesting to follow for whatever reason [TS]

  but it's not it's not a list of your friends on Twitter. That's that's one of the reasons why I really like it. [TS]

  So I pick up be at be pretty baffled if I unfiled someone and they got mad about it a bit like I'm mad if you unfairly. [TS]

  Yeah [TS]

  but here's one of the also the great things about Twitter is that for those kinds of relationships I could just mute [TS]

  you on Twitter as well if I want to make it look like I was following you [TS]

  and then not actually hypothetically hypothetically I could. So I would not be upset if you unfollowed me. [TS]

  I know I know it would be personal. [TS]

  Yeah that's and robots don't have feelings for that is that is the essence of Twitter [TS]

  and I think people on Twitter I think have more people I don't know who I follow on Twitter than people I do know that [TS]

  I follow on Twitter [TS]

  and there's no way I would make Twitter just a list of of my friends that is ruined the whole the whole use of it [TS]

  that's not that's not what it's for so if I get a perfect refuge notice whatever unfollowed someone [TS]

  and start talking to me about it it's not Facebook you know go go cry about this on Facebook [TS]

  but not here this is not this is not what this thing is for a plane crash that you're on a plane crash going I [TS]

  deliberately have to post this so it's easy if you do you honestly have to talk about plane crash live. [TS]

  Well I just wanna keep going so I was actually going to dove into the vote of plane crashes [TS]

  and now it doesn't have to be a weekly thing. But I want to tell you about the worst plane crash ever to know about it. [TS]

  I do you know what the worst plane crash ever was I have no idea now. [TS]

  Really this is where you're super into a topic and you over assume other people's knowledge [TS]

  and I wouldn't have the slightest idea I just assume this is like one everybody knows I don't think I could name a [TS]

  single plane crash in an identifying way you know where people say oh flight a one six five [TS]

  and I can't do that for a single plane crash. [TS]

  Well if you say the word tenor reef to any plane crash [TS]

  and just began talking about straight away I have never heard of this. Well this was the worst plane crash ever. [TS]

  Might as well you might as well I mean you can cap this just send me the audience by personal pleasure. [TS]

  Listening pleasure Blekko plane crashes it's a terrible thing. [TS]

  And five hundred eighty three people died which is the most in a single plane crash [TS]

  but it was two it was two seven four seven to hit each other on the runway [TS]

  and you'd actually quite like it because it was one of these perfect storms of things going wrong [TS]

  but it was a lot of it was also to do with psychology [TS]

  and human interaction because basically this guy flying a plane at the end of a at the end of the runway was quite [TS]

  misty. [TS]

  He misheard some communication and he thought he was clear to take off and he was impatient [TS]

  and wanted to take off because he wanted to get home. Is light and his second officer. [TS]

  He's in theory it was probably the first officer actually but his his inferior knew he was doing the wrong thing [TS]

  but was too shy almost. He was he didn't he didn't say he was right. You know he didn't speak up. [TS]

  Anyway you can guess the rest the plane went down the runway through the mist [TS]

  and there was another Pan Am plane crossing the runway at the time and the plane took off and the two collided. [TS]

  All this devastation happened not only is interesting because it's the worst plane crash [TS]

  but it's interesting because of some of the factors especially the human factor side of things [TS]

  and this was the crash that really really started getting people interested in human factors [TS]

  and the psychology of the cockpit. [TS]

  If it's a huge disaster almost always a human cost there are lots of factors [TS]

  but if you're going to put the blame on one human you'd put it on the pilot of this Carol implying [TS]

  and the thing that was interesting was that he was like the chief flight instructor [TS]

  and like the top dog parlor of the how airline [TS]

  and had recently been in like in their advertising campaign as a face of the airline and [TS]

  when the crash happened the first thing all the airline executives said was you know we've got to get Jacob on the [TS]

  phone and he's going to head the investigation. What I realized that he was the pilot that had caused the crash. [TS]

  So anyway interest interest interesting one plane crash going to look it up [TS]

  and like I always say every plane crash has lots of interesting little stories and bits of trivia [TS]

  and one of my favorites is this particular plane the Pan Am plane that kind of was the sitting duck that got hit by the [TS]

  can down the runway was also the first ever seven four seven to fly a commercial flight [TS]

  and it was the first of a seven for seven to be hijacked [TS]

  and then was the one of the participants in the worst air disaster still that has ever happened to the airplane. [TS]

  That's a curious claim. Thank There we go you can just semi that already if it doesn't make the final cut. [TS]

  If the worst plane crash disaster ever doesn't make it nothing from this point on. [TS]

  This episode of hello internet has been brought to you by Harries dot com And for those of you who don't know what [TS]

  Harry's is it's basically an online way to take care of you sort of shaving and raise and you can buy razors [TS]

  and you can buy the replacement planes. [TS]

  Now the business was born out of a personal experience one of the founders went along to what he calls a drug store [TS]

  but I guess what I would call the pharmacy or chemist to buy replacement blades for his razor [TS]

  and he had to wait for ages while they unlocked the case and then paid a fortune for the blades [TS]

  and he basically thought this could be a better way than this. So they started this Web site. [TS]

  Harries dot com where you buy razors and then you get the replacement blades like everyone does [TS]

  but I had a much fairer price than what you get from some of the more famous companies [TS]

  and they are probably wondering why I'm doing this out of not gray [TS]

  and that's because I've actually been sent one of the kits from Harry's to use so I can tell you about it. [TS]

  I've got it here in my hand that's what it sounds like you have to go to the Web site to see what it looks like I was [TS]

  actually really impressed by the whole thing it comes in a really sort of impressive looking box. [TS]

  It's really classy and I'll put it up on the razor. [TS]

  So it's really nice to when I've got this nice SUV a metal handle it. [TS]

  It feels expensive although it's not [TS]

  and it looks expensive it's quite a classy looking razor It also comes with shaving cream [TS]

  and a first batch of blades which is pretty important. [TS]

  I gave it a test run in the bathroom and I was really impressed with the shave as well nice [TS]

  and smooth everything you'd want from a really top notch razor [TS]

  but the key thing here is the ability to order new blades at a fair price that got really good blades made in Germany [TS]

  and you can order them when you like and it won't cost you an arm and a leg. [TS]

  They're not following that printer ink a business model of getting you on board to start with [TS]

  and then ripping you off later. They really fair if you don't believe me again have a look at the website. [TS]

  Harries dot com I think one of the things I like best I was sort of the look of the product the font in the text. [TS]

  It's all kind of really classy. I want the colors and. [TS]

  One that got bit of a sense of humor if you look closely [TS]

  and read what's written on some of the products as well this kind of a dry wit. [TS]

  I think I've done well I think I've really got the tone of the product right. [TS]

  Only fifteen dollars gets you the starting can't which seems like a really good price to me. [TS]

  And besides being something you could buy say so which is probably what I'd do the other thing that did occur to me [TS]

  when it arrived was this would make a really good gift for kind of like you dad or your brother or boyfriend [TS]

  or something like that it sort of looks like an expensive present although it doesn't cost a fortune so go on have a [TS]

  look at the website [TS]

  and you see why name it so if you want to check it out go to Harry's dot com Now I should say at the moment they're [TS]

  only delivering to the U.S. and Canada I was a bit lucky they sent one to me here in the U.K. [TS]

  And I think they do want to get international shipping happening at some stage but they haven't done that yet. [TS]

  Go to Harry's dot com and enter the promo code when you're checking out. [TS]

  Now if you do that you get five dollars off your first order which is good for you [TS]

  and now I know that you came to the Web site from a podcast which is good for us. Harry's done. [TS]

  A calm promo card as in how the Internet and thanks again to them for supporting. Hello Internet in the podcast. [TS]

  Back to the show. Calls we've waffled on tonight. Every week for like an hour almost. [TS]

  Well I guess I guess what this is is the hello internet season two opening extravaganza. Excellent marketing. [TS]

  I love to learn from you. It's not lawful it is an amazing amount of content. [TS]

  This could be like feature length episode. Yeah we were going to talk about the news. [TS]

  Yes there's a big topic and this is going to be difficult because you are or you are a consumer of news [TS]

  but I worked in news for a very long time. Yes. [TS]

  Which really makes me worry that I could be very very boring here boring. I will edit you out as much as is necessary. [TS]

  This is what happened that we had alluded to talking about at some point in season one [TS]

  and know that I will talk about in season two [TS]

  but I guess the focus for this discussion is a little bit like the news call and why is it so awful. Question mark. [TS]

  That's that's kind of the headline in my mind of the discussion to have around this particular topic because the news [TS]

  is such a big all encompassing thing. [TS]

  I think that I want to set the guidelines that I want to talk mostly about sort of the big newspapers and the big T.V. [TS]

  News channels as the focus of this because in this modern Internet world there's this very interesting blurring [TS]

  spectrum of what is the news with various Web sites and how big things need to be. [TS]

  So I kind of want to talk mostly about the major Web sites and the major T.V. Channels. [TS]

  When we're when we're discussing the news today and like. They say the major websites rather than newspapers. [TS]

  Did I say that I meant to say newspapers but I think you just said he's papers Yeah [TS]

  but I guess the thing is in my mind I interact with all the newspapers in their Internet form [TS]

  and of course I'm not going to go the newspaper and like pull out the big sheet [TS]

  and then have to wash my hands later I remember when a little while back I think you [TS]

  and I were both in a newspaper article in the paper and it wasn't in the online version and I called you up [TS]

  and so if you say in this article that were in your online Arsenal come buy the paper because it's in there [TS]

  and oh my goodness it was like it was like I asked you to rub your hands [TS]

  and don't do something you want I'm not going to touch a newspaper you were like notified No I was. [TS]

  OK so some newspaper had done a big feature on people making a living on You Tube as I remember correctly you were in [TS]

  the article but I don't think I was mentioned but you but we want to talk about it anyway. [TS]

  OK You wanted me to to look at it [TS]

  and I guess I was just disbelieving that you couldn't just send me a link that this was only available on a piece of [TS]

  paper in a store somewhere. [TS]

  Hence I I don't know if I've ever bought a newspaper before then that was an explicitly for a project in school back in [TS]

  high school when they say oh yeah you know you have to use a newspaper to do whatever [TS]

  and I don't think I had purchased a newspaper since that So it was a big event for me and I had to go in [TS]

  and give the give the guy some money for some paper. [TS]

  And yes that was the first time I touched a newspaper in probably ten years. Well if you're a newspaper Yeah. [TS]

  So I'm guessing that the overall tone you're going to have towards the big newspapers and the big T.V. [TS]

  Networks is not going to be a loving. Yeah I think that's fair. [TS]

  I can think about this from from from a couple points which is for most people reading the news. [TS]

  You are probably not involved with basically every news story you ever read across your entire life that the news is [TS]

  stuff that's happening to other people or in other places. [TS]

  But if you ever are in the position where you are directly involved with something that ends up in the news that can be [TS]

  a rather eye opening experience to see oh I was here or I was involved in this [TS]

  or maybe the newspaper is talking about the company that I work with and I'm familiar with whatever they're discussing. [TS]

  And I would say that that is often just a very surprising experience to see how stuff that you know about first hand is [TS]

  then communicated to a wide audience. Yeah very often it is communicated in a in a way that are just wildly inaccurate. [TS]

  And I've seen people discussing this online to say how that can be very very surprising. [TS]

  And that's not something that happens to most people because again most of the time the news is about something else.. [TS]

  And so when you when you read newspaper stories or you see something on T.V. [TS]

  You generally just kind of go with it [TS]

  or you have no reason to doubt it really you know it's in the newspaper it's on the T.V. [TS]

  You assume like oh yeah you know maybe they left out the details but that's basically the story. [TS]

  But if you're ever involved in something you can quickly see how that is that is not the case that that it is often [TS]

  just very different than what you expect. Yes I mean that's that's true for life in general as well but yeah yeah. [TS]

  OK And then the second thing is from from my perspective having to research stuff. [TS]

  So I you know I don't make a big point but you try to research my videos as well as I can. [TS]

  And over the first year of doing this I very rapidly came to the conclusion that newspapers were basic. [TS]

  Just worthless as as resources to rely upon because it usually factual claims that were made. [TS]

  If I try to follow up it was just either impossible to follow up or it was just wrong or wildly misleading [TS]

  and that's also a very disappointing kind of thing to come across because you think this is the newspaper this is the [TS]

  idea of the newspaper. [TS]

  Just like if you have school that is maybe different from the reality of the situation you know maybe you know if we [TS]

  talk about what the news is actually doing in presenting an accurate view of the world to news consumers is not what [TS]

  it's doing it's actually accomplishing something else. So no I'm not yet. [TS]

  As a guy who spent many many years writing those stories and then making those T.V. Reports later. [TS]

  Yes so I will say nothing because I'm now i think i'm now that fear we have all the teachers have felt listening to the [TS]

  previews the pod cast as you do a demolition job on my profession. [TS]

  OK I'm going to I'm going to say something [TS]

  and I think this is this is going to be impossible for this next sentence to not sound sarcastic so I just want you [TS]

  and the Internet to be aware that I mean it genuinely thank you Brady are very special. [TS]

  I think since you are much better than probably many say most of your former colleagues you know I don't know any of [TS]

  these individuals in particular [TS]

  but you know you are you are someone who has ended up in a situation where in some strange way you are almost like a [TS]

  one person tiny science news channel of yourself. [TS]

  And you know you go out and you do interviews and then you edit those interviews [TS]

  and you have a lot of control over how things are portrayed [TS]

  and I think the kind of person who ends up in that situation is obviously maybe a little bit different than most of the [TS]

  other news reporters I don't know what you think about that. [TS]

  Well that I mean that's a very special that's very kind of you to say and I appreciate it [TS]

  and I guess in the sense that I'm a journalist now then that's a bit different [TS]

  and it's sort of comparing apples with oranges. [TS]

  Yeah I think the side of me that is about to be offended is the side of me that worked for Rupert Murdoch newspaper for [TS]

  seven years [TS]

  and then worked for the baby safe for seven years I think that's the side of me that's about to get a shellacking. [TS]

  Well actually so you know here's the thing. [TS]

  Even to this is again just as I was saying that if I was writing this is an article I know I would go back [TS]

  and revise the previous thing that I said about the reporters themselves because I actually think I was thinking a lot [TS]

  about this because I've I've had some some interactions with reporters who tried to get in touch with me to do stories [TS]

  and or a couple things that have been written about me in the newspapers [TS]

  and it out there that has generally been a negative experience for me with that [TS]

  and it's something I try to think about and say OK I don't. [TS]

  So I think people are people are people just sort of across the board. [TS]

  In general I don't like answers like this say oh let's say I think the news is terrible. [TS]

  I think a lazy answer but a very reflective answer for people to say something like Oh [TS]

  but that's because just the reporters are terrible reporters. [TS]

  I don't I don't think that's a good answer to the kind of question about maybe why isn't the news super accurate. [TS]

  And I like to try to think in terms of systems and so my guess is that. [TS]

  What's going on inside of newspapers [TS]

  and what's going on inside of newsrooms is that the system that is set up to generate [TS]

  and produce the news puts an enormous amount of constraints on the reporters [TS]

  and the writers that makes it difficult for them to maybe necessarily produce the best pieces that they possibly can. [TS]

  So you know you know I'll ask you. [TS]

  I've never worked in a newsroom [TS]

  but I'm I'm going to guess for example that there is just an enormous amount of pressure to produce lots of articles [TS]

  and you are measured and graded by the number of articles you're not necessarily measured [TS]

  and graded by the quality of those articles is that is that the case. [TS]

  Yeah I mean as long as they're not as long as they're not wrong and cause problems for the newspaper. [TS]

  Yes you are required to produce you can quote to have higher up. [TS]

  But also you're required to have Apple in most cases every day. And that's yes that is a constraint in place. [TS]

  It's an issue you could call an artificial constraint that is you know created by the need to have newspapers every day [TS]

  and sell advertising and make money and fame based and cite the curiosity of the public [TS]

  but news isn't news if you don't do it quickly every day. [TS]

  It then becomes history [TS]

  and then of course history papers the cold newspapers so that constraint that it is done quickly [TS]

  and all of the problems that come with the need to do it quickly including accuracy and things like that. [TS]

  But their hope is to necessary evil [TS]

  and yes you cannot then rely on as a you know a source in fifty years time for a seat to be grave. [TS]

  But then I started with documents in a way and if if every article was triple checked to the nth degree. [TS]

  And you waited for all the facts to come to light before you wrote your article. [TS]

  It wouldn't be news anymore and you could say and I know there are people who don't care much for news [TS]

  and will say well fine let's wait a few months until all the facts [TS]

  and let's not report on this Malaysia plane crash until we know what happened. [TS]

  Let's not have all this wild speculation and that's fair enough. [TS]

  Wild speculation is called wild speculation for a reason [TS]

  but if you don't have news if you don't have day to day accountability you have a lot of other problems in society as [TS]

  well to do with the way your government to do with things that are happening you don't know about. [TS]

  So I think these people are talking about pluses [TS]

  and minuses of everything the pluses of news shouldn't be discarded because of some of the minuses that you've already [TS]

  touched upon and more no doubt touch upon again. [TS]

  Let's not forget that news has to be quick and responsive [TS]

  and it day to day thing because that's how people are held accountable [TS]

  and how society is kept informed of what is going on elsewhere in society. [TS]

  Otherwise we might just live in our own little silos and not know anything. [TS]

  They go Anyway rant over making good points which I don't know that [TS]

  but that's not a rant like this is this is why I think it's an interesting conversation to have with someone who was on [TS]

  the inside. [TS]

  I'm I'm just a person on the outside sort of frowning at the newspaper [TS]

  and you know it's I want to hear what you have to say about you know your perspective from having actually worked about [TS]

  it work on it on the inside. [TS]

  Let me say one other thing [TS]

  and I'll say a negative thing because that was so kind of a positive actually stick vision of news [TS]

  and you don't have to have been a journalist to express those thoughts that I just expressed [TS]

  and that's kind of more the fourth estate you know I taught you I think the one thing that I think you're a bit too [TS]

  kind to journalists as well [TS]

  when you sort of say that they are just a product of the machine they work in which they are now. [TS]

  You know they have to get paid and don't want to get sacked. [TS]

  But journalists also most journalists who become journalists have a fair degree of ego [TS]

  and say they want to have stories in the paper all the time. [TS]

  They want to have their byline on stories or they want to have their face on T.V. [TS]

  As a reporter and that is another big driving force that's going on. [TS]

  So while that while they have got bosses who are saying say that they used to say that based [TS]

  and they also have their own impulses which is saying get the story get get get enough of the story [TS]

  or get the best possible story that will get me on to page one or get me the lead story on the news [TS]

  when there is a there is a corrupting force is a force where you know you may not you find out just enough to get your [TS]

  story in the paper or you find out what you need to know the shots you need to get your story on the T.V. [TS]

  That is a negative side of of journalism. Yeah yeah that humans there are humans who you know who want glory. [TS]

  Yes that's true. [TS]

  I mean that's I guess that is also in all fields that as a human issue humans want glory I guess as good as a general [TS]

  statement. I guess you know it. [TS]

  When you put it this way this is a huge topic this is a huge topic isn't no you get no I mean it's all one reason [TS]

  sanguine. Yeah it's it's a juiced up I guess. [TS]

  Let me go to Michael point here one of the things that I think about [TS]

  when I think about the news source like like until the end [TS]

  and with newspapers it's the suspicion of noticing that they like the phenomenon of twenty four hour news channels [TS]

  or so that they really visit there's always twenty four hours worth of news in a day [TS]

  or that newspapers are always sort of about the same size [TS]

  and I think it's like Well surely if we're if we want to talk about. [TS]

  The things that are important or the things that humans should be informed about in their society. [TS]

  There's not an equal amount of that every day it would be a remarkable coincidence if the exact number of important [TS]

  things happened every single day. [TS]

  And so since that isn't the case you have to know that that a lot of the stuff that's in on T.V. [TS]

  News or that is in the newspaper is not necessarily there because it's important it's there to fill space. [TS]

  I came across this article by a blogger I've been a guy really a guy I've been following for years called Paul Graham. [TS]

  He writes and some very good essays He's a venture capitalist out of California but he used to do some other things. [TS]

  And he he talked about how I think it was he worked in a newsroom at one point [TS]

  and was discussing the number of press releases that come in from companies that then just get immediately re written [TS]

  as stories and I'll see if I can if I can find a link to his specific article. [TS]

  Yeah but he was talking about the kind of kind of news article where once you tune into it you can't unsee it. [TS]

  And he said his his example was talking about an article a newspaper that'll be something like. [TS]

  Men's business suits are back into fashion in the office and you know some some survey about how more [TS]

  and more companies are deciding that the casual look is over and we're going to do more business suits now [TS]

  and you know some graph about sales of business suits that were always based on a survey of someone's commission. [TS]

  Yeah that's exactly it you know some some survey about this or that [TS]

  and how soon do you think of that as a kind of article in a minute [TS]

  and he discusses how these kinds of things are coming in to wherever he worked as a newspaper just an enormous amount [TS]

  of the time and they just get kind of slightly modified and sent into the newspaper as though they're. [TS]

  I reported stories [TS]

  but they're basically something that the association of business suit manufacturers has just handed to the newspapers [TS]

  and hopes that they that they run easy. [TS]

  Yeah and and also even when you just talk about like the number like that like what should should people know. [TS]

  I almost think that the newspapers and T.V. [TS]

  News are are more they're more reflection of what do various interests want people to be told as as opposed to an [TS]

  accurate reflection of what should people know [TS]

  and I think that the example of press releases is just a relatively small example of that. [TS]

  But you can it's not hard to like scale this up to governmental levels of like you know what. [TS]

  What particular stories do particular interest one run [TS]

  but is that something that you came across much in your work like the press release issue. [TS]

  It sounds like you know what I mean you know when there was two fax machines you just have piles [TS]

  and piles of press releases coming in all the time. [TS]

  Yeah the press release thing is an age old problem [TS]

  and journalists do have again the ego of the journalist has a natural revulsion to doing things that come from press [TS]

  releases. [TS]

  It's partly a pride and it's partly a well I don't want to be spoon fed attitude there is a natural revulsion to it [TS]

  but then there's a whole industry that has blossomed around getting around that problem. [TS]

  Here are officers who are so skilled at writing press releases that they might be able to get around that [TS]

  or they'll contact the journalist directly and say I've got a story for you [TS]

  and coach it in such a way that the generals thinks they're doing something they're not doing I mean this is this is a [TS]

  constant tension in news press release versus this is News and of course [TS]

  when you're under pressure to find a story you haven't got a good story that the writer of this is you know is that. [TS]

  Get out of jail free card. [TS]

  Yeah that's what I mean by that the systematic pressure you know you no one can blame a reporter for doing that if they [TS]

  have deadlines to meet that their job depends on it and it isn't like that. That why the press releases work. [TS]

  They're feeding into this system as well and the newspaper wants a certain amount of material. [TS]

  Yeah so the person is kind of caught in between those forces [TS]

  and it becomes it becomes a more economical way to fill a newspaper [TS]

  and to feel you know say you don't need as many stuff because you know having to send them all I have to go [TS]

  and make dates [TS]

  or in a car park if that is sitting at their desk rehashing a really nice real reporting to go a long time that is a [TS]

  constant tension I will say this at the end [TS]

  and I'll say this now I don't know if you've read Flat Earth News by Nick Davies And yes I mean how this everything [TS]

  we've talked about so far [TS]

  and we'll talk about if people find this even a little bit interesting there is a book I should rate which is excellent [TS]

  about this and this. [TS]

  He talks about churnalism this chaining out this need to churn out stuff [TS]

  and the pressures that creates on the journalist and the [TS]

  and the press release exploits this channel istic culture so I mean what you're saying rings very true [TS]

  and it gets manipulated and you can spot these press release stories if you know you're looking for. [TS]

  Yeah yeah yeah that's just that's just part of the problem and one of the things that. [TS]

  When I hear people defending the news as an industry going to talk about you know in informing people [TS]

  but I don't know I don't know how to. Let me put it this way. [TS]

  Just like once you know about the existence of press releases you can see this kind of thing more easily in newspapers [TS]

  that you might read or or T.V. Shows or T.V. News that you watch. [TS]

  I think there's a there's a similar kind of thing which again I assume that this comes from the. Time pressure. [TS]

  I mean I don't I don't think it's necessarily laziness on the part of the reporters. [TS]

  But and I know this is particularly when I go back to America and I watch American T.V. [TS]

  News which has got to be just some of the most appalling news in the whole world. [TS]

  Everything is presented as what is happening right now. [TS]

  So the news is discussing like an event that is occurring at this moment [TS]

  and I always think I'll be watching these like news clips [TS]

  and I think OK I understand this is what's happening in politics at the moment [TS]

  or this is a particular problem you know elsewhere [TS]

  but nobody can understand this problem in a meaningful way unless we are through stand how did we get here. [TS]

  Like there's something happened before this problem that was the setup to this problem. [TS]

  And I'm always really aware on particularly American T.V. [TS]

  News there's just no history there's there's never any context. [TS]

  I mean you've got to have a this is where you have a problem of knowledge like like how much background can you [TS]

  possibly put in and then for someone who's just coming into the story for the first time. [TS]

  You could probably talk to them for half an hour about everything that's come before this point. [TS]

  But for someone who's watches the news every night this is just the next chapter of the story. [TS]

  You don't read the previous nineteen chapters of a book every time you go to bed you read the chapter you're up to now. [TS]

  Yeah and I I and I understand what you're saying there and I can go with that [TS]

  but I would say that the majority of stuff that I see is presented in a in a totally context less void of we're going [TS]

  to talk about this this problem this event that is happening but there is no future and there is no past [TS]

  and we're just talking about the thing that is happening right now and I think that kind. [TS]

  If thing leads to a falsely informed citizenry. [TS]

  Oh you're you're aware of stuff that is sort of going on right now [TS]

  but you don't have any kind of framework to understand it in a in a meaningful way. [TS]

  This goes back to to my system's way of thinking is like so many of the things that are being discussed in the news. [TS]

  They are attention grabbing or like they make you really angry and [TS]

  but they're just the bottom layer of something where the next layer up is the thing that really matters [TS]

  and so you know some someday will do an episode where we talk about politics in particular [TS]

  but I think this is a great example of voting I should say in particular. [TS]

  As an example in America you will hear all of these these events [TS]

  and the stories about say corruption with particular politicians [TS]

  or a huge divide in the Congress over a particular bill or whatever it is. [TS]

  And a lot of those things seem to come down the way the news presents them as stories about particular people. [TS]

  But there are there are systemic answers as to why they say is Congress more divided now than it has ever been before. [TS]

  There is a totally reasonable answer. [TS]

  One level up to that question there are structural changes that have happened to the voting system that have made that [TS]

  different. But that level never gets talked about. [TS]

  You know it's always just like let's look at this guy who is yelling about this one thing in this other guy who's [TS]

  yelling about some other thing and there's no history about how did those guys get there. [TS]

  You know or why why does the system now encourage much more partisanship than it ever did before. [TS]

  So I just think that if the the news is informing you of these particular of events [TS]

  but it's it's almost like like it's like junk food. It feels like oh I'm being informed. [TS]

  I know what's going on right now. But but it's not. [TS]

  It's not a harder level of communication but a more valuable level of communication. [TS]

  You can't it's very hard to give people the amount of information you want to give them I mean. [TS]

  OK you make five minute videos that have lots of information in them. [TS]

  But let let's let's say a few things about your five minute videos that they take a long time to make their research [TS]

  for wakes. [TS]

  They have a lot of information in them spoken very quickly that you could never give to just you could never put on the [TS]

  news because people can't absorb that while they're eating a T.V. [TS]

  Dinner off their lap at the same time that that much density of information you want to you have this desire to give [TS]

  people all this information that you cannot give them in the finite amount of space in which they are willing to absorb [TS]

  the information and then you're left with a choice. Do people want to watch Billy punch Fred in the face. [TS]

  Which is which is interesting to look at. What do they want. [TS]

  Twenty minutes about all the history of Billy and Freddy you know since they were born [TS]

  and all the problems they've had [TS]

  and you know of course if I said to you I've got I've got two videos here one's eight seconds of someone punching [TS]

  someone in the face. Them One is a twenty minute spoken word piece about why people don't get along with my punch. [TS]

  I think even you would watch the punch in the face. [TS]

  Well yeah I think your longer video should have the punch at the end [TS]

  but I guess that the conflict for makeup here comes from. I totally agree but I would not disagree. [TS]

  And yeah I know and I'm saying pretty obvious stuff. [TS]

  Yeah I know but but it's valuable to bring up [TS]

  and so I guess the tension for me is what I get irritated by is the kind of exalted position that news has for itself [TS]

  in society. Right and what we think of it versus what is it actually. [TS]

  He doing this how this how the fourth estate holding politicians to account stuff I was spouting I didn't want to say [TS]

  it better because of that. Let's get into it. [TS]

  Yeah [TS]

  but I I it's like I wouldn't mind the news so much if we could be more straightforward about what it is it's much more [TS]

  like event entertainment or informational entertainment but [TS]

  but this whole like oh the news all of the government of you count and we you know we inform the city [TS]

  and I have just I just don't think that's what it's actually doing that's what it claims it does [TS]

  but that that is not really the case of one of them not even that they don't want to like I'm the first to tell us that [TS]

  there wouldn't necessarily be a market for that. [TS]

  So I acknowledge that I understand the market demand for that again that's another kind of system right that the [TS]

  newspapers are in trouble as it is and so they need to be able to raise money [TS]

  and to do that you need to have the attention of people. [TS]

  And so you're going to write shorter stories are not going to context. I'm fine with all of that product of it. [TS]

  You're a guy who loves talking. [TS]

  Two or three hours about voting that when you make your You Tube videos they're like five minutes long [TS]

  and have interesting visuals and lot stuff gets left out because you think people won't watch a long video [TS]

  but I am not claiming to be holding society to account. Yeah that that is the thing that just really really gets me. [TS]

  It's like letting you think that pompous and self-important I both think that they're pompous and self-important [TS]

  and I also think that normal people give the news too much credit that the normal people know it was a terrible word to [TS]

  use but if you just if you're just not paying attention it's easy to over assume you know what the news is doing [TS]

  and you know for you know it everybody talks back to you know the. [TS]

  The Nixon tapes and a new Woodward and Bernstein as example always comes up [TS]

  and it's like hey guys hey guys that was like forty years ago now can we you know I love that one off no it wasn't [TS]

  forty years ago. That's quite recent. [TS]

  Yeah so the stern stuff is great [TS]

  but in the modern world I think it's really interesting that someone like someone like Snowden exists [TS]

  and he has you know so many more options about how to actually disseminate that information [TS]

  and so we do live in a different kind of world where informants can get out their information more easily [TS]

  and he went to several newspapers if I remember I don't remember because I wasn't following that super closely [TS]

  but I think you would have three [TS]

  or four newspapers he released it with I don't remember the details of her involve the papers but [TS]

  but I mean he went to multiple multiple newspapers we have to do that because of you know us different markets [TS]

  but yeah yeah yeah yeah and so I think it's. [TS]

  I don't want to speculate too much on his internal motivations [TS]

  but my guess is that he he may have done something like that because he wanted to to make sure that other other people [TS]

  may have have taken it seriously [TS]

  and so you want to be in a newspaper because people assume that newspapers are where the serious stuff happen. [TS]

  He took advantage of this situation in which he thinks is folks. [TS]

  Yes but I would think that he if that was his goal that was a good goal. Right. [TS]

  It it's going to come off as more respectable. [TS]

  He's going through and he meant what they were but let's just say like the New York Times [TS]

  and then if he has Snowden dot com slash blog slash secrets it just is just not going to have the same kind of impact [TS]

  but I just I think that that's the kind of it's like a shared delusion almost like everyone believes it [TS]

  but I don't I don't think that's necessarily the case and one of the things that I'm interested in. [TS]

  His just in the in the past couple weeks there been a few reporters who have launched their own smaller scale [TS]

  independent news organizations. [TS]

  Yeah and the one that I'm most interested in that I haven't I haven't had too much time to look at [TS]

  but I'm going to be curious to see where it goes. Is do you know Nate Silver of five thirty eight. [TS]

  I know vaguely he was a former baseball statistician I believe who then moved into politics [TS]

  and basically applied statistical science to political elections. [TS]

  And surprise surprise the introduction of science into a field makes that much more accurate [TS]

  and I think that the super interesting thing about him is that I followed a lot of his reporting in that previous [TS]

  presidential elections and. [TS]

  This is always where I get my news because I try to find individuals that I think are very trustworthy [TS]

  and I think he is he's one of those kinds of people [TS]

  and his News reporting on the elections was just so different than anything you would find in the major newspapers [TS]

  and it's like this is a guy who is concerned about accuracy about actually getting it right [TS]

  and it was interesting to see how someone could still report on the elections but from a very different perspective [TS]

  and and still be accurate and still be interesting. [TS]

  And so what I'm curious is now that that's the Internet is just so established you have people like Nate Silver who [TS]

  have worked with in the news industry but who are also young enough [TS]

  and not entrenched enough to possibly want to spin off their own news organizations to some extent that actually to me [TS]

  holds a lot of promise for the future of news. I can I can really. [TS]

  I imagine a future where there are smaller scale operations that are run by people who are maybe less directly attached [TS]

  to the current system as it exists and can produce much more interesting and still accurate stories [TS]

  and not have to have a you know we're going to publish fifty articles every day. OK people let's go. [TS]

  We're going to have a much smaller volume but we're going to produce higher quality content. [TS]

  So I'm kind of hopeful about that stuff. I'll be curious to see in a couple years where that is. [TS]

  What about all the people in the world who are not so much like you with very specific interests [TS]

  and a desire for great data to want to know lots of things what about the person who wants to know. [TS]

  There was a plane crash in Malaysia. Manchester United sacked manager David Cameron did this. [TS]

  This celebrity has just brought out this movie. [TS]

  This is someone who wants to know lots of little things they can not everyone can read [TS]

  or like nineteen page makes over analysis of like I think. [TS]

  You know there are there are a lot of people who are not you that just one like [TS]

  and they want someone to queue right things for them. [TS]

  To summarize for them how in a graceful way and I mean that's what that's the definition of a newspaper almost. [TS]

  Well that's to me the most is almost a different kind of thing. [TS]

  Again I have no problem with this kind of like stock ticker news almost you do you just want to like a little one [TS]

  sentence about what you know what. Thing has gone on in the world. [TS]

  I can totally understand that it's just it's like the mid length news that I often have have problems with stuff that [TS]

  just is both inaccurate and misrepresentative. [TS]

  I don't know I guess again this is just a particular frustration of mine because of how many times people send me stuff [TS]

  I think Oh maybe. [TS]

  There could be a really interesting video in this newspaper article and so I go off and I research it [TS]

  and it's like oh it turns out that this is just wildly inaccurate and misrepresentative. [TS]

  That's the kind of stuff that I don't like [TS]

  and I just see it so often that it makes me kind of disregard all of the news [TS]

  but again I have no problem with people just wanting to be aware of sort of of what's going on in the news [TS]

  but I don't think that those little overviews are not enough for newspapers to survive on. [TS]

  They need to have more stuff for people to actually read and to go to. Maybe that's why they don't. [TS]

  Yeah you know [TS]

  and I mean the great thing about the Internet is if you are super into something there's going to be a place that has [TS]

  all the in-depth news you could ever want about your super narrow topic you know whatever whatever it is like those [TS]

  kinds of sites exist and more general stuff. So it's harder for them to exist. [TS]

  But your blog posts which I'm sure you put in the show nice was excellent [TS]

  but the last one of the one of my favorite blogs you've written so make sure you put that in the shadows where you kind [TS]

  of dissected a T.V. [TS]

  News report this is actually one the rare things that I wrote I wrote this basically in an afternoon because I got [TS]

  incredibly furious about it. [TS]

  But this is a good example as well as some of the things that frustrate me with with the news is. [TS]

  This example happened to be about a particular thing that was happening at the last the last debt ceiling in the United [TS]

  States [TS]

  and there was there was talk on the news for a while about is the mint going to make this trillion dollar coin [TS]

  and this was this is all over the news [TS]

  and this article I want to be a kind of thing that just like being aware of press releases. [TS]

  I would like people to be aware of a particular kind of thing you often see on the news which is these video segments [TS]

  I'm sure nothing like the video segments you have produced Brady but these video segments that are done. [TS]

  It's seems almost like by third parties you know that the anchor like turns it over to you know [TS]

  and here's some guy you've never seen before talking about a thing or just like little video segment. [TS]

  If you pay attention to them you will realize are entirely content free that you basically learn nothing more than the [TS]

  title told you and so and so in this particular example Kember what news channel it was on or whatever [TS]

  but they made some so little three minute explanation about you know is the United States going to make the trillion [TS]

  dollar coin. Three minutes is a lot for T.V. News report. [TS]

  Super and I go through this like scene by scene about what they talk about [TS]

  and just show how it's almost like it's trying to trick you into thinking that they're saying something [TS]

  but they're saying nothing. [TS]

  And once you tune into that on a lot of news segments that you see if you listen [TS]

  and think Wait what do I know now that I didn't know two minutes ago. The answer is basically nothing. [TS]

  Like they told you nothing at all [TS]

  and in this one in particular they make a couple of just weird little Not exactly errors [TS]

  but this kind of thing I see a lot in the News of the weird little sidesteps that I was only aware of because I happen [TS]

  to be trying to research this topic and I thought it was going to be part of my debt video [TS]

  but I realize there's there's nothing to this story. [TS]

  Even though everybody's talking about it there's nothing here to discuss. So I never put it in the video itself. [TS]

  But yes so what. Once you're aware of that like watch the news people and then think how do you know what it actually. [TS]

  What do I know now that I didn't know before I started [TS]

  and often it's it's very very little art can be compressed down to just a sentence [TS]

  or two you know twenty minutes worth of stuff that you watch so this is why I am not a big consumer of the news [TS]

  but why why is it so well can change that in your opinion. [TS]

  I know there are you know you could talk about sort of a downward spiral [TS]

  but in general terms still millions upon millions of people watch the news every night and buy newspapers every day. [TS]

  Defense is bad. [TS]

  If it's really that why are people paying money for [TS]

  or devoting their time to well first of all there's a presumption that people. [TS]

  Are you aware of the things that's wrong [TS]

  and it's impossible to be aware of the things that are wrong unless you know the things you know like [TS]

  when I read stuff. [TS]

  You sort of have a presumption that things are correct unless you happen to know otherwise [TS]

  and so I don't think it's obvious to people that that a lot of the news is kind of worthless or pointless [TS]

  or wrong because there's no reason that they would they would know that so you can expect people would necessarily [TS]

  judge it that way. [TS]

  Like if I read some new story about a topic that I'm unfamiliar with I have no ability to judge its correctness you [TS]

  know and even I would just sort of oh I guess it's sort of mostly right. [TS]

  I only happen to know if I'm if I research it more than discover the thing is the thing is wrong. [TS]

  As for as for why people consume the news. [TS]

  There are a few topics of conversation that I sometimes get into arguments at like dinners with friends [TS]

  or you know acquaintances and things and one of them is this the thing about how I don't really follow the news [TS]

  and it seems like it's a societal expectation that if you are you're an informed citizen [TS]

  and part of that is keeping up on the news. So it's not irresponsible of you to not know what's going on in the world. [TS]

  Yes that's that's usually the response that I get from a lot of people sometimes like great anger that I don't follow [TS]

  all of the news or you know we joke you know [TS]

  when I say I'm disappointed in you Brady I'm not really disappointed in you [TS]

  but I have definitely I've only met people who [TS]

  when they find out that I don't follow the news I go you know I have to think less of you now because this is a kind of [TS]

  societal benchmark it does amaze me. It does amaze me that you don't follow the news. [TS]

  I'm not like disappointed in me [TS]

  but it does amaze me that someone who is interested in the things you're interested in is not more interested in news [TS]

  like this. I guess you're a history buff. That's what I think and I couldn't be a more wrong description of me. [TS]

  I just think like you know you look at you'd like to weigh. [TS]

  Until the dust has settled [TS]

  and that's kind of what that's what history is history is waiting till the dust of news has settled [TS]

  and we can just rationally go through what happened and how things work and why things happen the way they did [TS]

  and the confusion of what's going on now seems to appeal to you want to wait and see the result [TS]

  and then just dissect and think ahead and I went down I couldn't I couldn't disagree with you more. [TS]

  Well I guess I have no problem with with the confusion of what's going on now with a very different issue from [TS]

  following the news I don't think that following the news is enlightening about confusion on particular issues. [TS]

  No no no you don't think that that's why you went away to the finishes [TS]

  and you know it's not it's not that I want to wait until it all finishes. [TS]

  That's that's imply I'm waiting for stuff to be settled. [TS]

  There are there are things that I follow that are confusing in the present that I don't have to wait until things are [TS]

  all settled I mean I guess but you know this is a minor example bit of a story that I'm very interested in. [TS]

  I have been sort of following the stories of the protests against the Google and Yahoo buses out in San Francisco [TS]

  and it's you know relatively small and sort of local story but it's caught my interest in a bunch of ways. [TS]

  I am I'm criticise Li interested in that because it's a very complicated story. [TS]

  And for those who aren't who are not familiar the gist of it is it's a story of gentrification. [TS]

  People who lived in San Francisco before the technology companies came in [TS]

  and the conflicts between those two groups you know the new to the new techies [TS]

  and the residents who were previously there and so Google has buses that pick up their employees [TS]

  and those are excellent targets for you know protests are complaining about because it's a big. [TS]

  Check that says Google or Yahoo on the side of it so I've been following this story [TS]

  and this is not a the dust is settled kind of issue it's doesn't bother me about that story in fact I'm very interested [TS]

  in that and I don't know how to resolve the kinds of problems that are that are happening there I guess. [TS]

  My my my disinterest in following the news just has more to do with the information density is very low [TS]

  and I feel like this is the next this is an experiment that you do your listener can kind of run on yourself which is [TS]

  that if you follow the news a lot you read newspapers. [TS]

  I think in your mind how many of the things that you're reading now or that you're watching now. [TS]

  Will matter at all in say three months time. [TS]

  At least when I do this I think the result is you know very few of the things that you're consuming [TS]

  or reading about matter at all in the long term [TS]

  and I think that again that's a bias because of the way the news reports. We acknowledge it's a structural requirement. [TS]

  Just the stuff that's happening right now I would say it's an interesting exercise for the listener to think OK well if [TS]

  if I spend I don't know a half hour watching the news [TS]

  or reading the newspaper like what is this activity of mine contributing towards like why why am I doing this now. [TS]

  If you like reading the news again I have no objection to this just like before I'm a very live [TS]

  and let live kind of recreation not playing a game like if it's recreation there's no argument there. [TS]

  You enjoy something. [TS]

  There is no argument against that is totally reasonable [TS]

  but if you are doing it you know as I've had conversations with people out of some sort of feeling that you need to be [TS]

  informed I would suspect that if you really start thinking about it [TS]

  and you start paying attention to what are you actually reading and watching and how much of this stuff is. [TS]

  Going to matter. [TS]

  You know at some arbitrary point in the future it's very low [TS]

  and so I don't think that it is it is actually necessarily informing you about what's going on I think it is informing [TS]

  you of what's going on. It's just what's going on when it mattered what was going on then white matter in three months. [TS]

  Yeah that that. That's correct yeah. [TS]

  By that there's a much better way to fix it I said the exact opposite of what I meant which is what happened. [TS]

  You talk extemporaneously. Yeah it's informing you of what's happening right now. [TS]

  But but do you need to know or know that words or more importantly is that how you want to spend your time [TS]

  and I think that if if people are following news out of out of a feeling of obligation that that is that is a bad way [TS]

  to go to spend that time if you want to know about stuff you're better off possibly doing other things [TS]

  and then following the news so I don't think then I say it to sound self-important. [TS]

  I don't think many people who read the paper every morning or watch the T.V. [TS]

  News every night doing it like it's a chore like clearing out the gutters or mowing the lawn. [TS]

  I think they're doing it because. Like I don't think people do it like against their Again you know. [TS]

  I'd much rather be doing something else but gosh I've got to read the paper. [TS]

  So like I say they may say they do it for a reason [TS]

  but I think they're doing it for a different reason I don't I think you're right that people put a lot of importance [TS]

  and credibility on the news and if they saw how the sausage is made. Mortified. [TS]

  I agree with that and if they knew how often stuff is wrong they would be mortified [TS]

  and if they you know the way news is made is could be quite shocking for them [TS]

  but I don't think people can shimming news with the motives. [TS]

  If you think they are consuming you I think I think they're doing it because they're entertained by [TS]

  and also because there's nothing humans like more than gossip and knowing what other humans are doing. [TS]

  Like whether it's whether it's whether it's what the next door neighbors have done [TS]

  or something that happened on the other side of the world. [TS]

  People just love gossip and I mean gossip in every sense of the word in that in the in the pointless. [TS]

  So in sake of silence a sense [TS]

  but also in the you know one hundred people died in a landslide sends people people people like that. [TS]

  That's why newspapers get to exist. [TS]

  People don't like the ads and people don't read papers because someone tells them they have to [TS]

  and he pulls like Can shaming some of that stuff and [TS]

  and it's exploited it's exploited by commercial interests in the form of press releases [TS]

  and it's exploited by governments in the form of propaganda and that corrupts the product. [TS]

  But everything's corrupted by something and that doesn't mean it's acceptable but that's just the way it is [TS]

  but I don't think people you know. [TS]

  I think people have as lofty a view of the news as maybe you think they do that doesn't mean it's not important people [TS]

  don't like it. [TS]

  Yeah I mean maybe this is just a bias [TS]

  when if I get into these arguments with people that they are there these are their go to arguments the news is [TS]

  important and I am I am reading about important things and people don't want to say that it is kind of like it. [TS]

  There is there is medicine in the dog food that there is some medicine put in the dog food from time to time [TS]

  and I think you know yes I could mention Watergate and yes you could mention the Snowden stuff [TS]

  but even on that even in that even in the little day to day ways whether it's the local council being held to account [TS]

  because the local paper ran a story about their sneaky attempt. [TS]

  A ban dogs off the leash in the local park opposite the road which is a purely hypothetical scenario I don't think I [TS]

  saw you complaining about on Twitter. [TS]

  But like even on that even on that micro level like amongst all that rubbish that's in my local newspaper here at my [TS]

  little town. [TS]

  There is one or two stories a week that the local councillors don't like [TS]

  or some businessman who's trying to get something built [TS]

  and the local people are protesting about don't like like there is that public accountability [TS]

  and there are new things coming on stream that are taking that role. [TS]

  You know you can name and shame people on Twitter now [TS]

  and maybe slowly the old creek institutions of twenty four hour news channels [TS]

  and newspapers are being replaced by new technology but that new technology is still doing that fourth estate job [TS]

  and I think you're throwing the baby with the bathwater [TS]

  and if we didn't have that public voice whether it's called Twitter and Facebook [TS]

  or whether it's old fashioned newspapers we would have problems. [TS]

  I think I think there is these corrupt institutions that you dislike so much. [TS]

  So play an important role just like courts can be corrupted. [TS]

  But if we did away with courts tomorrow I think society would be hurt. [TS]

  We had a lot of back you on that one but I'm not sure how we jump to the course [TS]

  but yes I know I will I will totally back you on that one. [TS]

  Again the notion of the something holding society to account is something that I am I am very much in favor of like I'm [TS]

  OK with that and I'm very interested to see where some of these newer younger News projects go [TS]

  but you don't think the big thing the big boys do or don't know. [TS]

  Do you think they're completely devoid of any aspect of that and there's not [TS]

  and that those in positions of power in any way moderated by the spotlight of publicity. [TS]

  So at all is a very very strong statement [TS]

  and I actually have a link here that I added to the show notes because I thought I thought it was an interesting [TS]

  example it was. [TS]

  Look at think it was The Washington Post in the States but they did as an example of positive news that was good. [TS]

  They did a very interesting article about bureaucratic waste in the United States [TS]

  and it was kind of an unbelievable article because it it goes into details about how this it sounds it sounds like it's [TS]

  out of the movie Brazil [TS]

  but there is an underground facility in West Virginia that's an old abandoned coal mine that has been turned into a [TS]

  football length paper processing facility that has to do with processing all the paperwork for the United States [TS]

  federal workers retirement and [TS]

  when you read about this you think how can this exist this is appalling that this is the system that is in use [TS]

  and it has been this way for the past forty years and that that I put that in the news. [TS]

  Because I thought that's an interesting example that I came across recently of something in a major newspaper that you [TS]

  get I'm presuming that it's right. Sheds light in an interesting way on a particular kind of problem. [TS]

  You know governments are always going to be slow to change. [TS]

  That's the part of their nature that's fine I don't expect them to be as as quick changing as companies [TS]

  and I think we would necessarily want them to be of quick changing of companies [TS]

  but maybe a unbelievable mine under the ground processing paperwork for forty years is like maybe we should update that [TS]

  and wring out of all I have to say I thought math never in West Virginia and I want to see that. Sounds great. [TS]

  So super cool but at the same time it's horrifying. [TS]

  So so never is never is a strong word [TS]

  but if we're going to do a throwback to the to the follow up talk about the pluses [TS]

  and minuses I think that there are there are winners there. [TS]

  There are good things that are done in major newspapers [TS]

  but they are just relatively small compared to the enormous stream of irrelevancy. [TS]

  That said that is produced there are many systems that act like this in life where there's there's an enormous amount [TS]

  of stuff that maybe isn't worth very much and there's there's a couple of diamonds in the rough [TS]

  and in a pre internet world you know I would say that newspapers are much more defensible. [TS]

  You know because you need some kind of publishing medium you need to be able to speak to the broader world. [TS]

  Yeah [TS]

  but in a post Internet world I'm sufficiently confident that those diamonds can be found without the existence of the [TS]

  newspapers. [TS]

  Well [TS]

  and what you're saying is being completely borne out by commercial reality to I mean obviously newspapers are now struggling. [TS]

  Yeah. Because because a lot of that roll out of of these sort of overarching curators is no longer necessary. [TS]

  Yeah and I can't say we're going to shed a tear for the newspapers especially [TS]

  when they free boot our videos as often as they do with downline sections which they're the worst about now. [TS]

  Yeah yeah that's the photo is not super respectable I don't see that much with smaller sites [TS]

  but anyway at the site point there is there is this there is this minor danger or problem [TS]

  and I don't I haven't thought this through much [TS]

  but there is this slight concern that if we no longer have a commercially sustainable way for people to put resources [TS]

  into proper investigation and exposure. [TS]

  Will we be poorer for that for example if you've got some crummy newspaper that's right. [TS]

  All this irrelevant stuff and I am the first to admit that happens they usually have like one man [TS]

  or woman on staff who's just you know sits in the corner [TS]

  and is allowed to beaver away on some story that was unlike those that kind of luxury doesn't exist as much in this [TS]

  kind of mainly an Internet world where I think you're wrong about that I think you're wrong about that [TS]

  and I'm going to I'm going to give an example that is going to sound like the crazies example to people who are on the [TS]

  Internet but you know Buzz Feed. [TS]

  Yes OK So so people on from Buzz Feed produces If you go to their Web site it looks like at a glance it looks like some [TS]

  sort of terrible click BT Web site that has like Top ten celebrity surgery disasters you know which I mean I think that [TS]

  you were kind of saying that. [TS]

  And but they have [TS]

  but they must they must be running some kind of internal team that does this exact same function because every once in [TS]

  a while they come out with some amazing piece of original reporting one of the examples that that just happened [TS]

  recently which is why it's on the top of my mind was a total investigation into how has the United States. [TS]

  Let let say how has the executive branch of the government gamed so many powers in the war on terror to do all kinds of [TS]

  things that weren't in the original bill that gave them his powers [TS]

  and they recently ended up doing just a show with radio land that goes into this and I'll try to find the article [TS]

  and I'll put the Radiolab show in and the show notes. [TS]

  But this is clearly something that took a lot of time and a lot of deaths to investigate [TS]

  and I think a couple of these other things from Buzz Feed as well that I might be totally wrong here I'm speculating [TS]

  about their internal struck. Sure but but it seems like oh OK you guys are doing a similar kind of thing your Muppet. [TS]

  Are you articles you're using that to fund probably much longer much more in-depth pieces you know unflattering [TS]

  occurring you know completely agreeing with my argument that to sustain responsible labor intensive journalism you need [TS]

  some kind of commercially successful or as you would describe a relevant vehicle Aranda why I guess I have that. [TS]

  Yeah and I could have done it [TS]

  and now if we want to look at it on the Internet we need to clip eighty per state that this is this is I agree with you [TS]

  like this is this is clearly the successful model for possibly doing some of the stuff [TS]

  and I'm like I'm interested to see something like Buzz Feed do that [TS]

  but I'm much more interested to see like I said some someone like five thirty eight try to do like an in-depth [TS]

  respectable thing every day all day. Like that's the that's the experiment that I'm very curious to see. [TS]

  But I guess my thought here is just like. [TS]

  The Buzz Feed does not have an aura of respectability around it and I just think that Buzz Feed is what it is. [TS]

  And they they want. [TS]

  Again I'm just speculating about their internal structure but they are a commercial entity they want to exist [TS]

  and I like Buzz Feed almost more because then they're more honest about what it is like a lot we have a whole bunch of [TS]

  like click baby stuff and also we every once in a while produce an amazing piece of music [TS]

  and they using that repeatable stuff to to improve their reputation and brand to become sane and more respectable [TS]

  and more appealing I mean I mean that's just I'm sure when newspapers started they were probably these young upstart [TS]

  and it took. [TS]

  I'm using used to build this deserved or undeserved reputation as these institutions [TS]

  and papers of record I mean I would I would disagree just because of the presumed amount of resources you had for [TS]

  starting a newspaper versus starting starting a website you know that like pre-existing newspapers had had to come with [TS]

  a lot of blessings and resources to pop into existence in the first place [TS]

  but I know nothing about the history of these papers I have no idea mate maybe people were complaining about you know [TS]

  like I can't deal with all of these you know which Saint are you articled knew this newfangled piece of paper that [TS]

  showed up at my door. [TS]

  Boy is this dumb [TS]

  and then eventually you know they're exposing articles about the you know the I don't know the feudal lord down the [TS]

  street. [TS]

  Boy that's really great because it looked like a length skirts are going to ruin society you know who knows who knows [TS]

  about that [TS]

  but I guess I get that it's also just like like I have I have no complaints about people who just read stuff because [TS]

  they like you know that I have no issue with that. I guess I feel like. [TS]

  It's just a question of of for a for a lot of how do you want to spend your time if you like reading [TS]

  or watching the news I think that that's fine as long as you sort of face it for what it is [TS]

  and I would argue that maybe I get I just don't like the aura of respectability that is attached to a lot of the old [TS]

  school news stuff and I think that the Internet can replace a lot of that maybe in a more honest and maybe [TS]

  and maybe in a better way. [TS]

  And I'm very curious to see how the whole news experiment goes and say the next five years [TS]

  or so with with with that with with newspapers being both in trouble [TS]

  and a bunch of upstarts in the news business I will be very curious but. [TS]

  I guess my final parting word of advice is like I think for people who are people people who want to try like find out [TS]

  what's going on in the world you can't necessarily do all the investigations yourself. [TS]

  I think probably an optimal strategy right now is to try to find individuals that you trust follow those people [TS]

  and see you know what what are they talking about. [TS]

  Because there may be less and less influence by pre-existing structures. [TS]

  That's that's kind of my thought about like it used to [TS]

  when I was going around the world maybe follow individual people so unready Flat Earth News by Nick Davies because of [TS]

  someone who worked as a journalist for fourteen years on the inside. That's me. [TS]

  I read that book and I was like that is exactly right and I would turn to Paypal [TS]

  and say if you want to know the problems of being a journalist and why journalism is the way it is. [TS]

  He he's brutally honest about a few of a few of them. [TS]

  The channel is him in the electric fence and some of the other things he talks about. [TS]

  Yeah I feel you could have read that book and still have any kind of positive view about the news like that [TS]

  but that book is so depressing I think especially if you're coming to it unprepared. [TS]

  Boy that book is not is not a ray of sunshine on a cloudy day. [TS]

  You know that that that book is just piles of poo on top of more miles of that's what it is [TS]

  but it's interesting reading I did I read the book just after I'd left the baby say and obviously a lot of my family [TS]

  and friends a stooge analysts and I often say isn't this book right. [TS]

  I saw things from [TS]

  and they do get a bit upset at me so maybe I mean I guess I've been the advocate of journalism to a certain extent in [TS]

  this pod cast because someone's going to argue with that. [TS]

  But certainly that book paints a bleak [TS]

  and pretty honest picture of of a lot of the problems that face journalism at the moment you know realizing what this [TS]

  podcast is what Brady's Papercuts where I have a quick little moan about something small. [TS]

  Then you do these big gaping wounds of society where you just bring down over issues like the education system [TS]

  and the media OK let's know what we're talking about next time what will have to take a lighter topic for for for for [TS]

  episode two of season two. Hello Internet. [TS]

  I don't know the next wave next week will be Brady complaints about staffing is turn [TS]

  and then Gray talks about why democracy is a huge Well you know we'll have to talk about which. [TS]