Hello Internet

H.I. #10: Two Dudes Talking

 

  Or a torrent I can see it in your face or you will know how you were. [TS]

  It's been a glorious glorious day where I live what's it been like where you live. [TS]

  It has also been a been a glorious glorious day. [TS]

  Yes it's been very lovely and I have actually been out [TS]

  and about for most of the day so I have one season John what do you do when you go out [TS]

  and about I can't really imagine. And they can all those people and objects everywhere would just freak you out. [TS]

  Well yes I mean you know cities are busy but that's nice about them. [TS]

  Today was it was it was a sad day because it was an era in this day [TS]

  and I tend to group together all of the areas that I have to do until I basically have an entire day's worth of of [TS]

  errands to run or places that I need to go and so I just let me just get it over all at once [TS]

  and so that's what I was doing today. [TS]

  Moving about all over the place going to the bank going to the post office going to office supply stores going to a [TS]

  whole bunch of places. [TS]

  So that's that's what I was up to today what was the most loans to one not the one you least want to do is had to be [TS]

  done. I would say the bank. I always hate going to the bank the most is just that it's sad. [TS]

  They make you take a little number you have to sit there I don't know it's just it's not it's not ideal. [TS]

  So bank bank is my least favorite post office is a relatively relatively close behind that as as also not necessarily [TS]

  super fun so that's why it was there was just it was a day of doing things I've been putting off. [TS]

  But I still think if you if I put them all off so I can do a bunch of them together. [TS]

  That's way better than spreading it out over a longer period of time. [TS]

  I hate the post office but you know one that I love that I find surprisingly satisfying. [TS]

  What Going to the tip of the rubbish dump. [TS]

  I love filling the car up with stuff and like driving might be catch at the tip and throwing something away. [TS]

  A therapeutic about throwing huge objects like into these huge skips and like a fool but really madly [TS]

  and like to hang out with the other guy has a tip and I say this one guy. [TS]

  Where does the wood down where does the metal go and then I throw it in and bangs around [TS]

  and I do enjoy I do enjoy the tip it's my favorite chore and I always feel really satisfied at the end. [TS]

  Oh yeah you would be surprised to know that I can get right behind you on that one. [TS]

  Clearing out a whole bunch of stuff getting rid of a whole bunch of junk is great [TS]

  and the place like a dump is pleasingly industrial uses big machinery. [TS]

  Yeah I was visibly things going on it's very understandable. [TS]

  So yes I'm I'm with you on that one as far as errands go but I have because I have neither carton [TS]

  nor any idea what the closest big garbage dump would be that is something I haven't haven't gotten to do since I've [TS]

  lived in America I guess. [TS]

  I mean probably now maybe last time I got to properly go to a dump ten years ago with my father who was always taking [TS]

  stuff off to the dump to get rid of it so it's been it's been a long time. [TS]

  Maybe if I come to visit you we can have a little outing to your local tip is what you call it apparently. [TS]

  I would be so upset if you wanted it. [TS]

  I'll even save a few things that said big things you can throw in stuff that makes really big loud noises. [TS]

  Is the best you know some of the really clangs when you throw down a shoot or something. [TS]

  It's great that this is a plan. Speaking of errands we are supposed to be doing our follow up. [TS]

  Oh yes I guess we are also going to just apologize for some reason my dog has become very restless [TS]

  and shaking in the background walking around and she's normally quiet as a mouse. [TS]

  But she's usually she's usually in the background [TS]

  and I have done that shoot shoot then back up as a tiny tiny Easter egg. [TS]

  I intentionally left in a little doggie sound in the very first episode of this pod casts hope listeners go back [TS]

  and they listen very carefully. [TS]

  Can hear a slight color shake in the background so she has always been with us since day one she has will if you leave [TS]

  I don't know if you leave it in this time [TS]

  but she had a massive shake a minute ago I mean you would definitely be able to hear that one talking so well that it [TS]

  was probably not this is probably not the most interlacing podcast talk we've had come on man [TS]

  but that follow up this follow up. [TS]

  Last time you yet again waded in to the education sector all guns blazing basically saying schools have zero [TS]

  educational value. I merely childcare centres I think of and I may be on the hook. [TS]

  What I feel like your your some theories of my argument there always are is a bit more harsh than maybe my actual [TS]

  arguments are of that but if that is your prerogative I guess is the summer summer operable person here. [TS]

  I think it's a very clearly at some point that I am not claiming that nothing is learned in schools. After all they do. [TS]

  The animal lives children so these days there is that yeah. [TS]

  But yes yes I I would say that the thrust of my argument was that schools are probably doing less of what they [TS]

  explicitly say they do which is teaching children about the world and about things. [TS]

  So yeah that that was that was the argument and well yes. [TS]

  So is a little bit unfair because we are recording this pod cast mere hours after having made the episode originally [TS]

  available so I put it up this morning and it is it is now evening time here in London for us [TS]

  and we're recording so you know we don't exactly have a days worth of feedback to go through [TS]

  but looking through the stuff that we've gotten so far on the Reddit I would say that my prediction from last time [TS]

  seems to have held which is that my argument was remarkably uncontroversial. Yeah you know then. [TS]

  There are the Reddit thread seems that that seems to be the initial feedback. [TS]

  Now of course again it's a little bit unfair there has been a huge amount of time. [TS]

  I've just seen stuff from students saying similar things that that that's how they feel about school [TS]

  or even saw one comment which sounded like what I said has on my students react that they found it very enlightening to [TS]

  think about school this way that it made more sense than thinking about it as learning a whole bunch of stuff for the [TS]

  future so yeah maybe maybe uncontroversial [TS]

  but maybe we just need to wait longer maybe tomorrow there will be lots of angry teachers on the thread after the full [TS]

  workday in America has ended. [TS]

  So are there any is there anything in particular that has come up that you want to address [TS]

  or expand upon in the wake of your comments. [TS]

  The one the one point that I think I made less clearly maybe in the episode than I wish I had a pun on listening to it [TS]

  later is a question about the effectiveness of schools in when but basically that [TS]

  when kids arrive you can make very good predictions about how they will do later on. [TS]

  Yeah and I know I never I know that I said that in the episode [TS]

  but I think I didn't connect it clearly enough to this point about if the school is educating or changing the kids. [TS]

  That shouldn't that shouldn't be as much the case. There should be more variation when the kids arrive. [TS]

  And you shouldn't be able to have a sort of ninety percent prediction rate of how as a kid going to do based on how [TS]

  they did when they showed up at the door versus five years later. [TS]

  So I think that that's part of part of my feeling about this uncomfortableness of being a teacher [TS]

  and seeing that over the years and just coming to face face to face with oh I'm not. [TS]

  I'm not sure how much academically at least the kids have been affected. [TS]

  While while they were in our care in the schools so it's not the teachers I'm worried about I'm imagining how [TS]

  dispiriting that must be for parents to hear that if their kids are not particularly bright right from the outset you [TS]

  know that the school is not going to turn them around if I was a parent and I would want to hear. Yes yes. None. [TS]

  Yes' you don't hear that you don't want to hear it goes so there's another point going to sleep. [TS]

  Perhaps I would just say that [TS]

  and how to put the parent teacher evenings were always very interesting experiences as a as a teacher I think quite [TS]

  unusually I actually really enjoyed parents parent teacher evenings and getting to talk to the parents. [TS]

  Most teachers I know absolutely loathed it. But I did kind of think it was fun. [TS]

  But yeah parents opinions of their own children are are just are very interesting sometimes. [TS]

  And some parents know exactly who her child is and some parents have just No idea who their their child is [TS]

  and that's I would say that sometimes just interesting to see how that plays out [TS]

  and so let's say we have a kid who is not very well in school. [TS]

  Sometimes you get parents who are just completely oblivious to that fact [TS]

  or yahoo who think that maybe with with more effort on the part of the entire educational system that their child will [TS]

  do better and it seems like maybe that's not the case. [TS]

  But then you also have parents who know exactly who their children are [TS]

  and sometimes you would get let's say parents who were very saddened by that fact. [TS]

  It was it was always just very interesting talking to the parents about about that. [TS]

  Kids and and how that how they view them. [TS]

  But yes it is and it isn't the best it is it is not the most hopeful view of what the school system does. [TS]

  If you if you're entering it with not the best academic results [TS]

  and in particular the Economist I mentioned last time I had a table in a paper he wrote which was talking about entry [TS]

  into college and your ability to predict whether [TS]

  or not someone will graduate with a bachelor's degree within six years. [TS]

  And the numbers were just astounding about you can No you can say that somebody is entering college [TS]

  and say very accurately this person has a five percent chance of actually graduating from college given what you know [TS]

  about them at the start. Or you can say this person has a ninety five percent chance of graduating. [TS]

  And again I think I just think that that feeds back into the school is doing something else [TS]

  but it is it is largely acting as a filter for the kind of person who arrives. [TS]

  It's not necessarily modifying certain kinds of people to be better off so I think like some of the things that were [TS]

  discussed in the last podcast not completely [TS]

  but maybe slightly diminished the importance that we put on the role of teachers. Yeah what do you say of that. [TS]

  So I would I would agree with that as a as a as a general statement because the school is a collection of teachers. [TS]

  But it is a difficult subject to talk about. [TS]

  Difficult as in it's just hard feat to find the right words without without it coming out incorrectly [TS]

  or just that we may know. Well it's difficult partly from. [TS]

  I'm like a social perspective like we're talking about last time you want to think certain things about the education [TS]

  system and thus how teachers within them are acting as the others. [TS]

  There's a certain kind of societal expectation about how you're going to talk about these sorts of jobs [TS]

  and you know maybe if schools are our filters rather than places that are necessarily changing the bulk of students it [TS]

  does force you to come to some interesting conclusions about like what is actually happening within these walls. [TS]

  And so I actually sent a link to me on Twitter about this [TS]

  but here here is an example of just this not about teachers [TS]

  but I think this is an illustrated example of forcing a rethink about something and it's. [TS]

  When I was doing my teacher training I came across a few academic papers I thought were really interesting [TS]

  and they were about homework and how does homework effect the academic results on an end of year exam. [TS]

  If you give a student lots of homework if you give the student no homework [TS]

  or you know what kind of homework do you give them homework that elicits thought provoking answers [TS]

  or just multiple choice homework it was basically what can we do to maximize the end of year results as far as homework [TS]

  goes. [TS]

  Yeah I actually DO YOU HAVE ANY if you have any guesses like what do you think would be the optimal homework strategy [TS]

  if you were trying to make sure that a kid does really well at the end of year to know what kind of like a possum I [TS]

  questioned just I hate homework so much [TS]

  and I just I never I never really did homework homework was a real unkindest avoided homework and revision for tests [TS]

  and so I just I mean I think that I'm going to I'm going to be neutral and she does tell me make sure. [TS]

  Oh forget Ask me again my own personal experience in school at the end of this but thank you. [TS]

  OK if you're taking a pass on that question. [TS]

  And interestingly the result was basically there is no difference between any of these strategies giving lots of [TS]

  homework giving no homework really doesn't change the end of end of year academic results in any significant way. [TS]

  And we're talking about extremes here. Hours of homework or no homework it doesn't matter. [TS]

  It does not change how kids do at the end of the year [TS]

  and so I think this again come it forced you to come to some strange conclusions like boy. [TS]

  The thing that teachers say [TS]

  and that we like that we think is is the thing that is contributing to how well kids do on a test [TS]

  or how well they learn something turns out to not have any effect whatsoever [TS]

  and I think that's very interesting to know that the reason I brought up us [TS]

  or someone else on the Reddit who asked the question basically along the lines of I'm thinking of becoming a teacher. [TS]

  It's not the profession I want to go into. Am I making a mistake. Is this a good profession. [TS]

  I mean you went into that profession what do you say to someone who asks you that should I become a teacher. [TS]

  Wow that was a big. [TS]

  I feel like I have become famous on the spot because for my size will never know with is that a yes. [TS]

  I think that if I can hear you can hear your reluctance like I've called it here into some know it west face that this [TS]

  is actually not reluctant. [TS]

  The things I'm trying to formulate is that's a very hard question to answer in the absence of all kinds of other in [TS]

  from. [TS]

  Nation that's that's why hesitant because [TS]

  when someone talks about becoming a teacher I mean I would say as a general statement that being a teacher is a better [TS]

  job then many maybe most jobs but it's hard to talk about that just in general [TS]

  and I have a slightly biased perspective because I was qualified in the U.K. [TS]

  As a science teacher [TS]

  and because of that science teachers are in high demand particularly physics specialists are in very high demand in the [TS]

  U.K. [TS]

  and That meant that I basically was able to have the pick of any schools that I wanted to work at [TS]

  and I you know I applied to a couple of schools and they they all said yes and. [TS]

  I just went to the one that I wanted to go to the most and [TS]

  when I switch schools that did the exact same thing sort of happened. [TS]

  I found a school that I wanted to go to when I applied to and they just said yes but that's because that's a supply [TS]

  and demand issue there right. [TS]

  And so if you are an English teacher you're going to have a much harder time [TS]

  and so I think I'm I have a generally positive experience of of being a teacher [TS]

  but I am I'm in a better position probably than most people who are going to enter that labor market [TS]

  and that's that's why it's a harder question to answer on a just a general basis. [TS]

  But taking away from kind of economic [TS]

  and job opportunity factors what about just in terms of the reward of the job in terms of you know a lot of people [TS]

  become teachers because they want to you know we hear this you know shape [TS]

  and live don't make me go down this path Brady. I know this is a place to be follow up and. Well OK. [TS]

  I tell the really depressing story issue and not all of us. [TS]

  Well he buys would tell and Africa's you going to have to either edit out that last comment on this I'm sorry [TS]

  but I can. OK. Here here is this is a bit would be a slightly roundabout way may be of answer the question. [TS]

  OK when I decided to become a teacher here in the U.K. [TS]

  I went through a training program called P G C E postgraduate certificate of education and I was on a great course. [TS]

  You know I had some some great mentors there was it was overall just a very good experience. [TS]

  It's kind of like a fast track is fine. [TS]

  I still have this hard time understanding the English education system as a whole so I just know this one little path [TS]

  that I happen to follow. [TS]

  But yes it is a it is a year long program that presumes that you already have a bachelor's level degree in whatever it [TS]

  is that you want to teach. Yeah. [TS]

  So when I when I did physics at my regular college I didn't specialize in education so this is in the U.S. [TS]

  This is sort of like the equivalent of a master's of education. But anyway doesn't doesn't matter. [TS]

  OK so I did this course [TS]

  and I'm going to say maybe at the start there were probably about maybe forty of us who were who were training to be. [TS]

  physics teachers in the U.K. [TS]

  At the group as a whole the majority opinion was the boy I can't wait to inspire the next generation [TS]

  and change young minds kind of attitude about being a teacher. But as the year went on people dropped out. [TS]

  People withdrew and I couldn't help but notice that the more I can't wait to change young minds a person was [TS]

  when they came into the course. The more likely they were to drop out over the course of the year. [TS]

  And so these are the kind of more starry eyed I would say starry eyed was inversely proportional to probability of [TS]

  graduating [TS]

  and I was in a I would say more pragmatic little clutch of friends in that group of people who were not starry eyed. [TS]

  Other people might call a cynical but I would say pragmatic and I couldn't help [TS]

  but notice that my little pragmatic group had a very low dropout rate until at the end I think eight of us graduated in [TS]

  my group when I would say maybe only one or two. [TS]

  Or I want to I I want to influence young minds kind of people [TS]

  and the rest of us were Man summer vacations are awesome kind of people. [TS]

  And so what happened in the in the sort of course of that course that well paid the stereo and people dropping out. [TS]

  What did they find out or see or learn that made them kind of lose hope. [TS]

  I think there I think there are two effects here. [TS]

  One effect is something I think of as the I'm going to start a restaurant effect which is when [TS]

  when people think about jobs [TS]

  or businesses that they could start I think people have a tendency to think about stuff that is visible that they're [TS]

  familiar with. Obviously it's harder to think about things that you're now familiar with. [TS]

  So when people think oh I want to start a business they look around and they see restaurants [TS]

  and they think oh I understand what a restaurant is it's cooks and waiters and I know all these things [TS]

  and so they imagine themselves [TS]

  or starting a business that is a restaurant anybody who knows anything about the restaurant business knows it's just [TS]

  about the worst business that you could possibly go into the failure rate is almost absolutely certain [TS]

  but you only see the remaining six restaurants [TS]

  and I think I think teaching has a little bit of the same kind of effect. [TS]

  That disproportionately when people are thinking about jobs they can do like I mention in the last episode. [TS]

  Everyone is familiar with education [TS]

  and everybody kind of thinks they understand what it's like to be a teacher because they've been seeing teachers all [TS]

  their life. [TS]

  So my guess is that relative to other arche relative to other occupations there might be an over application of people [TS]

  to become teachers just in the same way that too many people start restaurant businesses so I think that that's part of [TS]

  what's going on there. But the second thing that I would say happened is just kind of the P.T.C. [TS]

  Course was another example of just an excellent filter. [TS]

  In that actually being in front of classrooms [TS]

  and actually teaching kids it is both a very different experience than you think of it as a student [TS]

  and the job is a very different kind of job than it appears as as a student. [TS]

  So teaching the actual time in front of class is actually a relatively small part of the job [TS]

  and an enormous part of the job is a lot of stuff that surrounds that. [TS]

  And I think that's hard to come to grips to sometimes and I think you do have to realize for the first time when [TS]

  when you're actually teaching a bunch of kids one how did this idea about influencing individual kids is very hard [TS]

  when you actually are teaching. [TS]

  You know in a year two hundred or three hundred kids [TS]

  and you start having to really realize the math about how much individual time can you possibly spend with any of those [TS]

  millions. And also I think many people who go into teaching had some kind of experience being tutors at one point. [TS]

  And when you're at. [TS]

  Shuter you're kind of by definition usually involve with people who are motivated to some extent to learn and so [TS]

  when you're in the teaching program you are you are forced to be in a room with people who really don't want you there [TS]

  and that is all that is also what I think people just don't realize is a very different experience of everybody who's [TS]

  becoming a teacher loves their subject and love the classes in their subject [TS]

  and then you have to realize oh most people don't love my subject at all [TS]

  and I actually don't have the freedom to teach my own subject the way I wanted to so I think it's a really harsh [TS]

  awakening of a designer. [TS]

  I think the people that I feel the SAR used for are the music teachers [TS]

  and that's because I think if you're a music teacher you must love music. [TS]

  But you have to listen to people just a massacre here and sick all day long. [TS]

  That's you know I think it's very different to see someone just not be able to do a physics calculation [TS]

  or just have no idea about the solar system. [TS]

  I feel like the music teachers have to come face to face with this every day [TS]

  and so I feel like the guys are the real troopers. [TS]

  If you if you could be a music teacher for many many years you deserve some kind of you know a Purple Heart [TS]

  or you know freedom cross or something. [TS]

  That's that's that's got to be that's going to someone is thinking I think I'd like to be a teacher. [TS]

  What what is kind of the burning question you think I should be asking themselves what tests should they apply [TS]

  themselves to see whether they really have the right stuff. [TS]

  I mean he sort of Petraeus is kind of you know you like having some a vacation [TS]

  and you're a little bit hard bitten desperate What is that all there is to it like what was it with any of the traits [TS]

  you in that little clique of successes had that group of people that I graduated with where you were just very [TS]

  pragmatic about everything and you have to be. [TS]

  And if I if I was talking to someone I think really really just the main red flag is too much talking about how they're [TS]

  going to influence young minds. [TS]

  I feel like that is a that is a very very negative flag but [TS]

  but other than Other than that I'm not sure if the if there's any particular traits that I can label as going in the [TS]

  other direction. [TS]

  Oh this is this is going to be something that's good the starry eyed ness is is inversely proportional probably to [TS]

  graduating but that's just my experience. [TS]

  I might it might have been an unusual group of people who it was it was probably a little scared of the other starry [TS]

  eyed people and they would have been brilliant to continue to sort of put them all off. [TS]

  Now I know I don't think so and you told me that I was and that you told me to come back [TS]

  and remind you to tell me something about homework. Oh yes. Now again this is a story not sure if I can come later. [TS]

  His podcast is like take a minute slow stirrings OK Others admit maybe we'll get through it my parents are also going [TS]

  to cringe at this because I know we have had discussions about my attitude as a student who had school sometimes so [TS]

  sorry parents here we go. [TS]

  And also if you are if you are a student in school you should probably not listen to the next five minutes [TS]

  or so just skip ahead here if you're in school. [TS]

  Listen to your teacher do what they say and press press the two minutes get button I can touch them. That disclaimer. [TS]

  If a kid in school. [TS]

  My view towards homework was basically the same as yours which was well this is it this is totally pointless. [TS]

  This is boring. [TS]

  It takes a long time I don't want to do this [TS]

  and the school system that I went to get this is very it is so different from England but in New York. [TS]

  Anyway in the school that I went to what you got the beginning of course was a syllabus that outlined how much [TS]

  everything counted for [TS]

  and so if you would get a piece of paper that basically said something like there are going to be four tests this year [TS]

  and those four tests will count for fifty percent of your final grade. There's going to be ten quizzes. [TS]

  Those ten quizzes are going to count for forty percent and almost always the last that was [TS]

  and your homework is going to count for ten percent of your final mark so what I really liked is a student I found very [TS]

  satisfying was at any moment you could calculate exactly where you were in class [TS]

  and how am I doing what my predicted level and [TS]

  and I knew the super valedictorians we had the little planners like most kids do would have like graphs [TS]

  and charts in the back where they'd be keeping track of everything to make sure you know everything has to get on track. [TS]

  Now my approach was a kind of you know I would've called it this at that age [TS]

  but it was basically an eighty twenty principle applied to this work [TS]

  and I said wait a minute homework is every night for hours [TS]

  and you're telling me it's ten percent of the final grade versus those four tests which are more you know which are [TS]

  half or more than half of my of my final results. [TS]

  So if you look at my report card as a kid it is basically straight eighteen minuses and B. [TS]

  Plus is because I decided I'm just going to take the hit on that homework where you just give me a zero for that [TS]

  homework. [TS]

  I'm just not going to do it and instead I'm going to put my efforts toward studying for the quizzes [TS]

  and the tests which matter the most. [TS]

  But that I can do in a relatively compressed period of time and so I would say that [TS]

  when I was a kid I had relative to many of my classmates loads of free time. [TS]

  I'm because I consciously decided to not do the homework and it was great and you know while I look back on it [TS]

  and think like you know you know what I have had a better life had I learned better work habits which is definitely [TS]

  something that I did not develop in high school [TS]

  and we can talk maybe you know some other time about how that really really hit me later in life not how think their [TS]

  work habits. [TS]

  However I am aware that if I was able to time travel back to my fourteen year old entering high school self there is [TS]

  nothing I could say that that kid but you can convince him to do his homework because he with he would tell me [TS]

  but why do I want to spend all of this time on all of the summer can only come from ten percent [TS]

  and I would have to say you're right. What did you do with his spare time you had I I was I was a rather bookish kid. [TS]

  So you did your homework so you could go and read books and basically what I did and. [TS]

  I also I was not a big get much to my parents' eternal eternal suffering it's not a big joiner so I didn't join all [TS]

  these clubs and I became more and more of a sore point as college applications approached [TS]

  and you know you're sick you're supposed to have listed on there all the things you do [TS]

  or you know you know you volunteered at the local hospital and you know you rescued puppies on the weekend [TS]

  and you you know did all this and I didn't have those things. [TS]

  But so when when I applied to college my resume was a little thin. Now we say but what I think what saved me. [TS]

  I don't know if this is the case you never know with college applications [TS]

  but what I said I wrote a little letter basically saying that I didn't really join clubs [TS]

  but I spent most of my time reading [TS]

  and I attached a reading list of all of the stuff that I had read in the past ten years. [TS]

  I said like this is this is my quibble. End of extracurricular activities and so on. [TS]

  I always feel like maybe that's why I got into college was was that reading was [TS]

  but you know who knows he's going to have the list. [TS]

  Unfortunately I don't I guess I had a major computer disaster my senior year of college where I lost everything [TS]

  and so I don't have any of those records I really wish I did I'd be curious to go back [TS]

  and see what that looks like a few of my look like [TS]

  but that is that stuff is gone into the digital ether that was that was before I learned computer backups how to do [TS]

  them properly. If I can if I can just make a slight aside we have but I have been basically saying How so. [TS]

  Sort of dumping on schools for the past now part and a half [TS]

  and working out of the language stuff you could probably say the last four years. [TS]

  Yes thanks that's even better that make them make me feel better. [TS]

  I'm talking about how how colleges you know don't maybe they don't do anything. [TS]

  I just put in a word for my own college that I went to which was in New York while I have been saying negative things [TS]

  about the educational system. [TS]

  I would say that that my four years where there were definitely some of the best years [TS]

  and the most positively transformative years of my whole life and so [TS]

  when we talked about this a little bit after the last episode cut but I am aware that there are there are none none. [TS]

  What is your salary What were your final G.P.A. [TS]

  Benefits to something like university or college in particular [TS]

  and I I think I definitely reaped as as many of those as it was possible to repay in a four year period so I personally [TS]

  had an absolutely great time it was an absolute comp at the peak so today you've just you've just sold the whole rug [TS]

  and everything you've said for the last four podcast by saying you know this is just which is still Catalin we're after [TS]

  these places. [TS]

  The paper and and they are saying that for me it changed my life and I wonder Well I want to give everyone a hug. [TS]

  First why don't we clear on that a second second of all I would never have gotten into economics grad school [TS]

  and then buy the P.G. C. Program. Had I not finish those final courses to give me that piece of paper. [TS]

  So that's that's you know that argument still holds that my life would have been probably pretty disastrous still had I [TS]

  gone to university but not finish that final course and not graduated. [TS]

  So that's the still say that that is a different there's a different kind of argument. [TS]

  And yeah I don't know I said oh that fan or whatever. [TS]

  Yeah there's like many will follow up now that you've just undermined everything I have undermined nothing you got. [TS]

  I think I think marshmallow. Yes that's that's me I am going soft. No I guess not. [TS]

  Do you have anything on your list that you want you want to mention this this app that this guy's made. [TS]

  Oh yes of course Hal I'll let you I'll let you have the pleasure of doing it saying it really really it belittles me in [TS]

  a funny backhanded kind of oh I almost forgot I was I was thinking of my healthy on Day to every city where a boy I [TS]

  demand. Bookish. Yes OK so I didn't look at his name. Yes So this is Nicolas coral. [TS]

  Yeah you know you can handle that one. [TS]

  That's you know listen I'm going to guess Nicholas correlate and I'm sorry if that last name is not correct [TS]

  but he has made a little web application which is called Brady versus Gray and up a link in the show notes. [TS]

  And I think he's using the You Tube E P I's to automatically have a little tally that shows how many videos you have [TS]

  made since my last show and what's not a moment. Yes So so looking at it right now I'm just just loading it up here. [TS]

  QUESTION At the top how many videos has Brady Haran release and seem to be very last released a video. Answer nine. [TS]

  And so that the i Phone doesn't. [TS]

  Yes It lists them into my my last video was uploaded on April ninth [TS]

  and so today today is what the sixteenth that right so you have done nine videos between April ninth [TS]

  and April sixteenth so that's that's that's not making me look fine so you have health by the way I think people [TS]

  sometimes don't realize that there's two very talented people who have been helping me out lately a guy named Sean who [TS]

  makes most of the computer files that he has and I just occasionally sweepin for some glory [TS]

  and also a guy called James who has been helping me out especially on my test tube videos so it's not like I am like [TS]

  making two videos a day on my I mean you know I do I do most of my things [TS]

  but the stuff that's really good if you watch something on one of my channels [TS]

  and you think gee that's really good for Brady video it was probably made by one of those. Look how modest you are. [TS]

  Well unfortunate also. [TS]

  But anyway so they check at the app however I have a feature request of a feature request for Nicholas. [TS]

  And this came up in the Reddit discussion. [TS]

  Somebody's tallied not only the videos but the views [TS]

  and if you do a views per video calculation I am still ahead in this game so I think this page is if you say yeah only [TS]

  really fair to you. [TS]

  Two it makes you look great I would love a views per video calculator to be added to this page to even things out. [TS]

  I can find Lomas is also a total view calculation I think that's not necessary I think that it is not necessary he just [TS]

  of just simply views per video that is my feature request one feature request total views. That's not as not required. [TS]

  All right I'm going to let you down that. Hello Internet. [TS]

  The sponsor is on About dot com a leading provider of spoken audio information entertainment. [TS]

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  Today I'm going to do my first fiction recommendation and that's the Stand by Stephen King. [TS]

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  The book is almost forty eight hours long when spoken aloud by a narrator who does a very good job. [TS]

  When you have a book that you really like you want to go on forever and the stand is that book. [TS]

  So if you have a cross country road trip on your schedule [TS]

  or you just have some big chunk of time where you want to be able to listen to something the stand is the perfect book [TS]

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  personal torment that he went through in making that book [TS]

  and that he still has about the existence of that book which gives a little bit of an interesting backstory. [TS]

  So once again that's the Stand by Stephen King highly recommended by me. I really like it. [TS]

  I think you will too if you want to listen to it. [TS]

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  That's all one word Audible dot com slash hello internet to get your free audio book [TS]

  and to show the audible that you came from. [TS]

  On this show and to demonstrate your support and also put a link in the show notes that you can click. [TS]

  Now back to Episode ten there was the ad the ad on the previous podcast was full Squarespace you thank you very much [TS]

  for the support and you record that after the fact. [TS]

  Why did you record that last one a sense that you're in a past time was something really. Yes generally different. [TS]

  Oh yes that that creates. Well this goes into what's happening right now. [TS]

  That last episode was recorded in my home office because I'm having technical technical difficulties at my office [TS]

  office and so this episode the people are listening to right now. [TS]

  It might actually sound like I am in a bath tub as well [TS]

  and that's because I am currently at home talking into a closet on a very old microphone [TS]

  and mostly in an empty room with echoey walls [TS]

  and so that if if the sound quality on my end is not so great I do apologize for that [TS]

  but if I'm having some microphone troubles that I cannot resolve so I'm in this different different set up for the [TS]

  moment you know what you wouldn't have this problem if you had more cushions and soft furnishings [TS]

  and knickknacks in your house. [TS]

  Or I could just get some proper sound proofing which is my ultimate goal to just have to have a space where I have that [TS]

  little eggshell kind of sound proofing that is much better than just stealing my house next to hopefully observe the [TS]

  sound in a random unpredictable fashion probably useless fashion as well so that that that is not going to happen [TS]

  but I'm terribly hunched over like a troll right now because I don't even yet have my desk [TS]

  or my chair that was one of the errands I was running today is getting that that stuff set up. [TS]

  So tomorrow I will have a chair and hopefully in a week I will have a desk. But right now. [TS]

  Hunched over and so if I move too far away from the microphone I just sound terrible and try not to do that [TS]

  but again I apologize if I'm doing that too much so sorry internets. I don't mean to hurt your ears. [TS]

  Can we do my two segments now. Yes What are your two segments. So first of all it's Brady's plane crash. [TS]

  If you're making these real Can we have a jingle or something. No let's not be bad taste let's just feel great. [TS]

  Plane Crash going to I know it you are using the very thing crash is just a minor clarification of something that came [TS]

  up in the last podcast. [TS]

  Thank fresh going and that is that you mentioned this plane that was flying from Katmandu to look exploded. [TS]

  It didn't explode. It collided with a bit. OK on takeoff from Katmandu. [TS]

  OK and then try to get back around to the airport and was unsuccessful. So as you know we can be clear on these things. [TS]

  You make fun of me for nitpicky corrections but I can see when it comes to a subject that is near [TS]

  and dear to your heart you want to make sure they get the facts just right. Well yeah of course. [TS]

  And and now my other segment which also I think should have like a sound effect or jingle [TS]

  but let's just say if it sticks first and that is Brady's paper of mine I think was there [TS]

  and then we may we shall complain about how you came up with the name Brady's paper gets that was mocking. [TS]

  I wasn't suggesting actually weekly segment but I can see I can see that your mony mind has latched on to this. [TS]

  I love the forum. Aim to read any complaints with life. [TS]

  His Brady's paper kept in its wake and funnily enough this is something that has been annoying me for quite a while [TS]

  and I've noticed and and you know how [TS]

  when people have liked that radio used to have radios sign ins about things that annoy you but you can complain. [TS]

  I always think I don't know those radio station when you can phone in [TS]

  and complained about the number of the educated the complaining they just have like a little segment on a talk show. [TS]

  Anyway you distracted me I still don't know what you're talking about [TS]

  but I think we're right should bacon present a high like on Five Live has this weekly moanin where people ring up [TS]

  and complain about things and then whoever is the best murder of the week at surprise [TS]

  and then called the Mona Lisa Rinna listens to some I'm not surprised that you know about this how much have you [TS]

  competed for the Mona Lisa very often I haven't [TS]

  and I probably won't be able to nap because I'm going to tell you my mind. [TS]

  OK And I wouldn't be able to win anyway because the thing I'm moaning about is something on his radio station I don't [TS]

  think they'd give me the prize anyway [TS]

  but the reason I'm raising it is because I've been guilty of in the last podcast [TS]

  and so I was annoyed to find myself doing what annoys me when I listen to other radio shows. Yes. [TS]

  So should I tell you what it is I would like to know when I'm listening to the talk show presented on Five Live. [TS]

  I can always hear them clicking their maps constantly here and they go through all the running orders [TS]

  and things they need to for the next segment things that looking up and this incessant clicking. [TS]

  And because in the last pod cast we had that silly gimmick where I released one of my videos. [TS]

  So throughout the podcast I was constantly like approving comments. [TS]

  So I was constantly quick quick cooking and [TS]

  when I listened back I could hear myself click click clicking all the way through. [TS]

  So I get really annoyed by mouse clicking on the radio and I was guilty of that [TS]

  and the last pod cast so I apologize I will try not to do it again and that is Brady's papercut for the flick. [TS]

  Any thoughts. No I like that one. It is something small to complain about. [TS]

  I do I do know I do know that I used to listen to more newsy podcasts and yes I do. [TS]

  I was aware sometimes of hearing the clicking I never knew that they were I mean I just didn't really cross my mind [TS]

  but you know that they're running through a whole bunch of of work stuff. [TS]

  I assume that they're on Reddit [TS]

  or whatever they're bored you know because of the person across from them is talking to me is not their turn to ask a [TS]

  question or whatever. [TS]

  So yeah I kind of assume that they were messing around not me I know exactly what these guys are doing [TS]

  but I just don't believe that they can come up with some kind of solution to this. [TS]

  Some kind of silent mouse or something. That's just ridiculous. [TS]

  So clicky mouse is about to use it like a keyboard you know you need if you need a really tricky keyboard. [TS]

  Yes I completely agree [TS]

  but I think if you are a radio presenter you can make this one sacrifice of not having a pleasing mouse for the sake of [TS]

  tens to hundreds of thousands of people who are listening to pleasing mouse is really important you know [TS]

  when they all say they can use a pleasing mass just in the studio and you have to feel you can use different mice [TS]

  and you have to adapt back and forth. [TS]

  I'm a big fan of the things that click you know you press a button [TS]

  and you want to hear it you want to you know this is like a switch has been thrown in the machine [TS]

  and made contact if you know the beautiful thing and it has thousands of times and I do agree I do agree. [TS]

  But this is actually an interesting debate I have in my house out with pads on on the MacBook Pro because you know how [TS]

  you can just tap the pad and that counts as a click you can press the pad completely [TS]

  and make it go click the tactile click I prefer that click [TS]

  but I get told of all the time until I want you to stick a little tap you don't have to make it quick. [TS]

  Now I disable all of that I don't even allow that to happen on my machine. Not that you have to click. [TS]

  I never even I never even quite approved of their moves at the single singletrack pad that also acts as the clicker is [TS]

  never a big fan of that I prefer the separate buttons [TS]

  but the best is of course is an external super quick e-mail us that's what you really want. [TS]

  But when you sneakily he's in the computer late at night [TS]

  and you don't want to get caught like you know the lack of I know I have ridiculously dodgy that sound [TS]

  and I didn't mean that you have to just because you know I'm checking read it when I should be going to sleep [TS]

  but you don't go on read it that much and you're too busy making videos all the time [TS]

  but do not like on Reddit I mean I don't go on as much as you but I do you go and read a lot [TS]

  but I thought you just grace us with with with your presence on the not other threads. [TS]

  No I'm not like I'm not like a hugely proactive in terms of commenting but I'm a big consumer I love I spent hours [TS]

  and hours on the ground. Yeah I've got it is very good. Yeah there's a lot of good sections on there. [TS]

  Yeah I went through all that in the video but you know who is the who is the biggest creditor [TS]

  and I do not know where he finds the time is destined from Smarter Every day. [TS]

  That guy is all over the Reddit and I do not know where he finds the time [TS]

  but he that I virtually run into him on Reddit all the time [TS]

  and usually beats me to interesting sub Radatz that man that man is a machine I don't know how it pays for him [TS]

  and I don't think he sleeps because not only does he make all those awesome videos but you know he's got a job [TS]

  and a family and he's a you know a good family man as well [TS]

  and I reckon they must be I to them that they're there have to be. [TS]

  He sometimes does the messages at odd times where it's. [TS]

  It's four in the morning on East Coast time and he sends me a message to ask about something or other [TS]

  and so yes I do not think that he sleeps he is he is super human [TS]

  and if you don't know who doesn't is you should go watch his videos [TS]

  and I will put a link in the show notes he has lots of very cool slow motion stuff [TS]

  and very good science he channel to check out or just go [TS]

  and read it you probably bump into him in the sense of what you couldn't read it missed a penny whistle something isn't [TS]

  a destiny is Mr penny whistle which is an excellent name. [TS]

  The other thing that if you look at his user history the number of times. [TS]

  He has just posted some funny picture [TS]

  and gotten onto the front page of Reddit is also a very enormous he's very good at the Reddit it's not just his videos [TS]

  or that he shows up he just you know he makes images of post stuff [TS]

  and it gets to the front page so he's very good at everything he does that man I'm envious. [TS]

  Well there's something else I was going to bring up the view counts on the videos. [TS]

  Yes just [TS]

  and that ties into what we're talking about as well just how important he counts on videos you know how much cache [TS]

  and how much sort of credence is lent to a video but he can't which is I think it's something we've discussed before. [TS]

  You know [TS]

  when someone looks at a video they look at if you can't decide if the video is any good not the continent with media [TS]

  and I had an interesting that experience with this today. [TS]

  Which I thought I'd share either just with you [TS]

  or with the audience depending on him to go have proved to you over the editing this way but. [TS]

  Basically yesterday I was sent a video by a young it was just a cute video of him rather say what I want to bother with [TS]

  the story behind just rolling dice and was very cute and it happened to be his birthday today as we record this [TS]

  and because I don't know if it just caught me at the right time. [TS]

  And and for whatever reason I decided to make him a little response video so I used his video [TS]

  and I got a few of the other a number of our contributors and myself [TS]

  and we will record a birthday message to him sang Happy Birthday Evan you know we have given all the best to you [TS]

  and stuff. [TS]

  What a good person you are so anyway I posted it to numb the file [TS]

  but I posted it as an unlisted video so that it didn't go up to nine hundred thousand subscribers [TS]

  and chased them all off when they're saying we want hard core math. What's with this fluff. [TS]

  Any right way but I went on to Twitter and Facebook and told some of. [TS]

  He was about it so they could go on to the video and leave a message in the comment saying happy birthday Evan. [TS]

  So that when he watched it there were lots of people saying happy birthday to him [TS]

  and then I sent it I sent it to him via his his mom [TS]

  or whoever was looking after him so I got a video back today from the people which showed his reaction to seeing the [TS]

  video and he was so excited it was so cute and he was like his voice was going high pitch and he couldn't believe it [TS]

  and it was so much fun it was so much fun enjoying his excitement when you watch someone open a present [TS]

  and then he open the You Tube video page and then this thing he said was when he had two hundred sixty views. [TS]

  First thing he said he didn't look at the video the content or anything like it. [TS]

  Apparently he spent the rest of the day getting quite excited. [TS]

  I'm told [TS]

  but you could only say he was disappointed like the disappointment that you know he's going to be on a number far video [TS]

  and then turned [TS]

  and you know you know this was pretty well this was a failure in marketing you need to sell this as a secret video. [TS]

  That's right that would turn this whole situation around. [TS]

  Because I can understand it from the skewed perspective who I'm going to be on a number of file video I'm going to be [TS]

  Internet famous and then boom two hundred views. [TS]

  It's you know it doesn't even hit the three o one limit the three I won it not in when he opened it and [TS]

  when he opened and so if you sold it as a secret video that that would be much more exciting. [TS]

  So marketing failure that's what I have that I chalk that one up too. [TS]

  I was going to ask your opinion on this today actually [TS]

  but YOU SAY YOU'RE SO HOT content during the day I was going to ask your opinion on whether [TS]

  or not I should release the video to the masses. Well I haven't seen it so I can't pass a judgment on that. [TS]

  What would be the in saying at what would be your criteria to give me a yes or no. [TS]

  Well I think this is partly a question about your generosity because presumably the kid would be excited to be number [TS]

  file famous and so if you release it to all of your subscribers he will be [TS]

  but I think depending on the content of the video if it is a bunch of people wishing someone a happy birthday you also [TS]

  have to weigh that against probably a not insignificant proportion of your subscribers being irritated. [TS]

  And then here's here's the thing that I would worry about Freddie. [TS]

  The future birthday requests you were that you were going to start to get inundated with everybody's birthday [TS]

  and then you're just going to seem like a precious person for granting the magical birthday happiness to this one kid. [TS]

  But then everybody else who writes in to you and let you know about their birthday [TS]

  or post the Yahtzee video on their birthday they get nothing. And then you've made them feel worse. [TS]

  So I think you have to weigh the sum aggregate of a single child's happiness versus all of the sadness you will produce [TS]

  plus the last hours of your life dealing with birthday requests forever. [TS]

  Well this is how I think that's how I would think about this. [TS]

  Can you guess what I thought I might think would be a good thing to do. Well you would have done first class. [TS]

  Let's pretend I would have done something like this. [TS]

  OK I would have released it is the secret video I think that that is already above and beyond. [TS]

  But to release it to the general audience you will reap what you sow. [TS]

  I just got a message from Destine family and I'm just going to. [TS]

  Tell him I can't talk because we're talking about him you know him. [TS]

  We can talk because we're talking about him on the podcast. OK I'm typing in the King. And I told him that. [TS]

  OK Well I'll tell you after the podcast Oshea the video [TS]

  and you tell me what I have I have given you a framework in which to make a decision the decision is yours. [TS]

  I mean the thing I want to talk to you about was what was what you felt about the importance we put on The View counter. [TS]

  Well that that's a good hard question to answer in the abstract in some ways it is the most important thing because the [TS]

  view counter is proportional to the advertising which is proportional to our incomes so the views need to be decent in [TS]

  order to be able to earn an actual living on this so that I mean that that's one way that is one way to look at it. [TS]

  But look when someone sends you a video you know a friend or family or you say something on Twitter [TS]

  and you can check it out. You know is is the view count. [TS]

  The first thing you look at it's hard not to look at it as as the as the first thing. [TS]

  Does that then color the way you absorb the video. [TS]

  I mean it has to it has to color the way you view the rest of the video here this is not this is not exactly it [TS]

  but this is similar to the psychological bias [TS]

  but basically the anchoring effect where people perceive things very differently based on what they perceived just [TS]

  before the thing [TS]

  and so I imagine there has to be some kind of anchoring effect with the view numbers that if you see something with a [TS]

  huge number of views that it affects how you perceive it versus if you see it with a smaller number of views [TS]

  and other people to find this this this paper but there is there is. [TS]

  An experiment that was run I'm sorry Internet I might get the details of this wrong [TS]

  but the gist of it was that having people listen to a random selection of unknown music [TS]

  and having them determine what songs they like the best and not surprisingly the view numbers [TS]

  but the list of numbers on the songs influenced people's opinions about what songs they thought they liked the best [TS]

  and I'm sure there has to be a similar effect with the videos. [TS]

  The original the original study was talking about the interesting thing was about the superstar effect. [TS]

  So why do some musicians [TS]

  and uppish just just make a superstar's And if you run the experiment multiple times with different groups of people [TS]

  but the same set of music and everyone can see everybody else's views and you slightly randomize it at the start. [TS]

  The superstars are different every time. [TS]

  People still have preferences for what is bad music or what is good music [TS]

  but the absolute top one percent is somewhat random who actually ends up there [TS]

  and it depends very highly on the initial number of years that you get so that you can't have to affect how people [TS]

  perceive the videos. Yeah yeah this is big it can't be any other way and. [TS]

  But that's just the way the universe is I guess. Yeah do you feel OK about that. [TS]

  I feel that you you have some sort of not a bad reservation about this I think you completely wrong. [TS]

  I'm just thinking I should go to like some of my less successful videos [TS]

  and just write on them that their secret videos [TS]

  and that people were went through that about the look of you can work very well. This is tenth podcast. [TS]

  Yes We always said we were going to do a ten. Yes that was the plan from the start. [TS]

  So this feels like a time to reflect. Yes. To look back at that. Highs and lows the good times and the bad. [TS]

  The path the forecast calls goes all sepia now. Yeah we need some sort of sad but also slightly hopeful music. [TS]

  I'll get Alan Alan to make something and you can supply under the saddle. [TS]

  Yes yes I can think about the highs and the lows where we've been what we've done or good times [TS]

  and the bad the good times and the tears the tears that might have caused other people to the show. [TS]

  LAURIE Yeah so how you feel about it [TS]

  and I don't know I'm feeling I'm feeling very mixed about this pod casting experiment. [TS]

  So I think maybe like we were talking about before with people become teachers because they know about teachers. [TS]

  I one of the things that I've been thinking about doing some sort of pockets for a long time because I am a huge [TS]

  consumer of podcasts and I have listened to podcasts for years and years just all the time. [TS]

  So it was something always in the back of my mind to do as a project and just like becoming a teacher. [TS]

  When you try to do a podcast you discover it is a very different kind of thing than maybe you thought about it in the [TS]

  beginning. So I have definitely enjoyed it but it has it has it has been very interesting. [TS]

  And how's that been different what something that was different to what you expected. [TS]

  Well the thing that strikes me about it the most is listening to myself speak extemporaneously. [TS]

  So as we discussed in a previous pod cast when I prepared for lessons as a teacher or [TS]

  when I prepared for speaking engagements that I had I did a lot of practice with those presentations and I. [TS]

  Was my style was to seem like I was speaking extemporaneously but it was relatively well rehearsed. [TS]

  But now this is the real deal on the pod cast today. [TS]

  We both kind of showed up with nothing and just said Oh well I guess let's hit record and let's see what happens. [TS]

  And so hearing myself actually talking in a genuinely unstructured unprepared way is a very strange experience. [TS]

  And the thing that bugs me a lot of pain when I listen back is I think of like the previous episode with schools [TS]

  when I'm editing it I listen to myself and I think why don't you finish that thought. [TS]

  Or is the obvious conclusion to come to it is this why didn't you say that [TS]

  and it's a very it's a it's a strange thing to hear yourself making an argument [TS]

  and then also be wondering why you're not following up on what seems like the most obvious thing to follow up on [TS]

  because you've got this crazy Australian interrupting all the time and I ask you questions that's why sometimes [TS]

  but sometimes I can hear myself lose the plot of my own argument in the middle of it and it's. [TS]

  Also just as anyone has ever had the experience of hearing your own self recorded it's always just horrifying to hear [TS]

  yourself back and forth with some comments on the thread. [TS]

  But there's also just a really big difference in seeing yourself on a video clip [TS]

  or hearing yourself in an audio clip for a brief period of time and then as some of these shows going back [TS]

  and listening to yourself talk about something for two hours it is a whole other level of pain because at that scale [TS]

  you can't help but start tuning into all of your own personal audio tics or the way you say things [TS]

  or your particular inflections and every one of them becomes a tiny dagger of pain. [TS]

  In the way that you perceive yourself and in your head you think you're being so smooth and so convincing [TS]

  and then you listen to yourself and you have to face the reality that maybe you're not so smooth [TS]

  or maybe you're not so convincing. [TS]

  But here's here's the interesting thing that I want to ask you on that point do you have that same kind of feeling [TS]

  listening to yourself. Do you do you find it an awkward experience when you listen back. [TS]

  I haven't hated as much on the podcast here as I do when I'm in videos in mind [TS]

  but here's what I'm not saying I'm hearing myself in my own videos. [TS]

  I mean I don't like how my voice sounds and you know I listen and think I wish I sounded less breezy [TS]

  and I wish that my voice is better. [TS]

  But I have found a lot more tolerable here than anywhere else and the other [TS]

  and the other thing that I have found is I can almost opposite [TS]

  and maybe it's because you're eating more of the talking and I do more of the asking. [TS]

  But I'm always amazed how much I say exactly what I wish I would say. [TS]

  I'll be listening to you talk and this question will come into my head that I really want to ask you [TS]

  and then I will ask the question in the broadcast. [TS]

  And like I always think asking questions because I never prepare questions and I just sort of you know [TS]

  and I always think it's quite a random thing. [TS]

  Now I'm beginning to realize maybe it's you know it is just the natural way I think because nine times out of ten even [TS]

  the wording of the question or some or even some corny joke [TS]

  or remark that I'll make is exactly what I'm thinking I should make. [TS]

  Maybe it's because I remember saying it the first time around I don't know but that has been the thing [TS]

  and like I will laugh at something you say as you say on the podcast promising back [TS]

  and then I'll hear myself laugh on the progress exactly the same way. Really surprised how predictable I am to myself. [TS]

  You you're thinking of a question you hear yourself ask it [TS]

  and then you think oh good on me for asking that question that was that was exactly what I wanted to hear. [TS]

  Then I mean it's a funny thing because it might might because you know my job is asking questions that's what I'm doing [TS]

  on my videos as well. [TS]

  But recently I went to a lecture given by a woman who was really fascinating and interesting [TS]

  and I asked in the audience [TS]

  and I had all these questions I wanted to ask like all the way through the lecture like depending on what she was [TS]

  talking about and I found a really unusual experience to not be allowed to interrupt [TS]

  and ask the questions I wanted to ask and I was just having to sit there passively [TS]

  and sit through the lecture say I've become a bit spoiled in that way. [TS]

  So in that respect I haven't I haven't hated listening to myself as much as I expected. [TS]

  The thing that I thought would be an interesting theory [TS]

  and let's say something again because of this podcast is almost like a lot of my videos it's it's someone talking [TS]

  and me asking questions so it's not a big stretch for me. [TS]

  But obviously it's a big stretch for you because you're used to these tightly prepared structured short pieces of [TS]

  communication in your in your typical videos and in some ways this is the exact opposite in almost every single way. [TS]

  Yes How have you found that aspect of it not not not kind of the tortured soul. [TS]

  I hate my voice or I wish I get a better job. But usually actual change in format. Yeah it's it's it's very different. [TS]

  And but is it liberating in some ways like do you like being able to just expand on points and not have to sum [TS]

  or summarize in one pithy sentence or do you not like that kind of flabby nature of pod casting. [TS]

  This goes to the heart of why I was thinking about a pod cast. [TS]

  As a thing to do because when when I first got into podcasting And I mean this is now. [TS]

  I mean whenever whenever the first i Pod came out you know back in the day I'd listen to pockets for a long long time [TS]

  and they started out as as real produced radio shows but as time and technology marched on more [TS]

  and more people normal people started doing podcasts that were in the genre that I think of as the two dude's talking [TS]

  Jonna. Hence there are there are a ton of pod cast which kind of fall into this genre. [TS]

  Not always two guys [TS]

  but it's you know it's usually two guys at least in the kinds of podcast that I listen to so we're not breaking ground [TS]

  here exactly and you know this is not this is not new ground. [TS]

  And I have said that those kinds of podcasts I found very hit [TS]

  or miss so I have a tendency to go through punk ass where I will suddenly in a burst subscribe to twenty new podcasts [TS]

  and then whittle it back down so much sort of growing and winnowing my podcast list [TS]

  and so I have I have over time added a lot of to do talking podcast [TS]

  and then realize you know I hate nineteen out of twenty of these and cut them back but I would keep one or two [TS]

  and I do think while we are breaking new ground with the two dudes talking genre. [TS]

  I I think that that kind of communication was it was a new sort of thing that you can have it in quotes show that two [TS]

  people having a casual conversation but that's still broadcast [TS]

  and the key to all of those pod cast that I kept was basically do I like the to do to do I find them interesting. [TS]

  And I almost didn't care what they're talking about in particular. [TS]

  Definitely shows that I have listened to where I have no ability to really judge what they're talking about [TS]

  but I like the personality of the guys and so and that. [TS]

  Yeah [TS]

  and so because because that format exists that was getting on my mind about maybe this is something that we could do [TS]

  and you don't know this Brady [TS]

  but that first that first video that we did the Americans gave it some terrible title because Americans don't [TS]

  understand numbers yet numbers confuse American B.S. [TS]

  Numbers give you gave it some slanderous title I don't remember exactly what it was I was meant to change it [TS]

  but then so many people commented on the title I felt like I could not change the title. [TS]

  Yes So I mean this this was a long time ago now but you asked me to do this video where we're talking about numbers [TS]

  and you cut it in with another American in the U.K. [TS]

  Talking about numbers and is not normally the sort of thing that I agree to [TS]

  but I agreed to because I was treating that as a kind of test run of can the two of us just talk over Skype together in [TS]

  a friendly kind of way like do we do we do we work together as as a parrot talking about things that was a kind of job [TS]

  interview that you didn't know about [TS]

  or a future podcast so I feel like in the final episode I have to reveal that to you it's a secret I've been holding [TS]

  and now you know. They yes. [TS]

  So whatever I think they came out very well but there was also a video where I see the power of the editing [TS]

  and so that's why I wanted to make sure that I had a few things you don't edit these very much say like well you know I [TS]

  don't always know how much you had it at these podcasts because excellent I listened back to them [TS]

  and I think he's been I might realize you've taken something out because we discussed it we discussed [TS]

  and said that didn't work let's just chop it but quite often I would be doing something in the way. [TS]

  I don't think I remember discussing that with Graham. [TS]

  Hang on a second I didn't discuss that with him but it was supposed to say that such as it doesn't make it. [TS]

  It's usually boring stories by me that yes I mean I mean we did have. [TS]

  You did have seven segments today for British paper cuts and I don't I don't sell so many. [TS]

  So I guess all that all of this was was just leading to trying to answer your question that I. I like this format. [TS]

  But part of that is contingent upon the listener's understanding that this is just a conversation between two toots [TS]

  and I don't have notes and we're just talking about stuff and one of the things that is both interesting in writing [TS]

  and in this case of hearing yourself talk [TS]

  and editing it later is the number of times that you can disagree with yourself. [TS]

  So I find this often when I when I write things down for scripts or for some other projects that I'm working on [TS]

  when I'm writing something down and I'll write a sentence and then upon editing it back I think. [TS]

  I don't agree with this thing that I said I think [TS]

  and I wrote it down in this way because writing is a kind of externalised thought process. [TS]

  Editing is revising your thoughts and I think that that's very helpful to the thought process [TS]

  and there have been times where I have written something and intended article for my blog [TS]

  and then it doesn't get published because I have [TS]

  and convinced me of whatever my point was that I was trying to make through the process of OK let me structure this let [TS]

  me really think what my points are. And so when you talk about. A pod cast. [TS]

  You only have half of that so I can hear myself making points. [TS]

  But there isn't any any ability to go back and to revise and to say you know that was a weak point. [TS]

  Or There have definitely been things I have said something [TS]

  and I thought you know I I don't know if I really agree with that [TS]

  or I don't know if this is actually the best way to make a point in a convincing kind of way. [TS]

  And listeners of the last episode who listened all the way to the end will know that I left in the point where we [TS]

  talked about how long the pod cast was [TS]

  and I think the final version ended up being much shorter because that that was one place where we were we were talking [TS]

  about some things in the editing later it was the first time I really did this in the podcast [TS]

  but I thought I said some things that I just I don't think I can express them this way [TS]

  or that's not a good way to express them and so I cut it out. But yes so I said I like this pod cast but I feel like. [TS]

  You dear listener. [TS]

  This is this is a like a conversation between friends and your here is listening to me [TS]

  and just like with any conversation between friends you can't necessarily hold any of the conversationalists to a [TS]

  particular sentence they said for ever. [TS]

  Yeah this this is a lesser bar of statements [TS]

  and so I think my videos are a very high bar of statements I think about the things a lot before I say them. [TS]

  But this is different and so the answer to your question is yes I find this an interesting different sort of format [TS]

  but I do I do worry a little bit about putting stuff out there that I do [TS]

  when editing later on as I've done all the podcast or I think I'm not sure I really agree with whatever that was. [TS]

  But I but I put it out there because that's what this is it's it's a conversation [TS]

  and it's one of the reasons why I really like having feedback at the beginning. [TS]

  There's a chance maybe to revisit things that we've said before [TS]

  and there's a chance for me to if I've come across something new in the interim to to change my mind about whatever [TS]

  we're going to talk about in the future so yeah that's a very long answer to your question about how I feel about the [TS]

  question was but I think people get that. I think people get that. [TS]

  It's like not quite so concrete and it's a bit more just kind of thinking out loud and getting Zeph wrong [TS]

  and like I don't think you need to worry about a lot. [TS]

  It's just like the same way you leave in the arms and eyes and when you misspeak. [TS]

  Yes You know that's almost leaving that stuff in not only to save you about three weeks of work but [TS]

  but it also is a signpost to people that you know this is just this is just rough this is not this is this is a rough [TS]

  copy to thinking about ideas and opinions [TS]

  and I mean my whole life is like I don't I want my opinion on something is not the opposite of whoever I'm happy to be [TS]

  talking to and then they are doing the exact opposite. [TS]

  And there are very few things that you know I feel I feel strongly about that you know I think I'm a bit wishy washy in [TS]

  that way not that I don't have strong opinions [TS]

  but maybe I could just see both sides of things more easily than a lot of other people [TS]

  but I never understand why people are so passionate about certain subjects because I always. [TS]

  I can just see I see both sides of it and yeah yeah like cricket. [TS]

  You know anybody could be really passionate about that [TS]

  and I'm glad you also don't feel very strongly about that even if I was talking to the world's biggest cricket fan I [TS]

  could quite easily see here and make the case that actually is a bit boring so I could do that [TS]

  and I could make the case [TS]

  but you wouldn't feel it you wouldn't feel it deep down probably one of the only things I wouldn't get on board with [TS]

  his people saying the moon landings were fake. I'm not I'm not having that. [TS]

  But other than that I'm pretty easygoing because anything you think we did wrong [TS]

  and there's nothing that we have done wrong [TS]

  but I would say that there is a difference that some people can notice which is that the first three episodes were [TS]

  different from the last seven including this one and that's because the first three they were relatively well prepared. [TS]

  That was that was before we made any of this public [TS]

  and I did spend time trying to create a bullet pointed list of points that I wanted to make [TS]

  and things that I thought were more convincing. [TS]

  Now I don't want you going into the lion's den of actually speaking about it. [TS]

  It still was a bit muddled but those were prepared arguments that I kind of wanted to make about particular topics and. [TS]

  I have always known that as as this has gone on that if it is to survive it's going to survive. [TS]

  As the two dude's talking yonder if people are interested in participating in this conversation listening to us talking [TS]

  on the Reddit saying hi on Twitter this is it an internet conversation which is kind of what. Hello Internet. [TS]

  Right it's it's not just you and me it's you and me in the back [TS]

  and forth with with our silent participants right now and then our vocal participants when we put it up. [TS]

  Yeah and so that's why it transitioned from something that was very well prepared [TS]

  and structured in the beginning to this because that is the only way that it can have a longer life because I have [TS]

  spent too much time preparing the food that I make [TS]

  and there there is not a mental space in my life for trying to structure an argument on a semi regular basis. [TS]

  You know to then to then argue back and forth with you about so. [TS]

  That's that that I think is is a transition that some people have noticed [TS]

  and I'm perfectly OK with some people saying the later episodes are not for me because I understand that I do this with [TS]

  pod cast as well. [TS]

  Subscribe to a bunch [TS]

  and then you realize you know what this this particular conversation is not a conversation for me [TS]

  but the ones that I do listen in on I know I I really like being there as the silent participant whenever those shows [TS]

  come out so that's that's something that is just a kind of technical point about the pod cast that seems really obvious [TS]

  to me but it may be other people just send some sort of shift [TS]

  but couldn't articulate it so that's that's me trying to articulate a little bit of what has gone on as the pod cast [TS]

  has has gone through these ten episodes I can imagine that I mean if someone is listening because they're like you know [TS]

  a fan if your video isn't a fantasy it'll probably take some level of interest no matter what you're talking about [TS]

  because because they like you for whatever reason I say that as if I can't imagine any reason to like you. [TS]

  That's not what I meant but. [TS]

  But there are many reasons [TS]

  and I can imagine someone like who's quite into you cheap thinking what these two guys make You Tube videos so [TS]

  when they're talking about that you know I guess I know talking about to some extent [TS]

  but there will be stuff going a bit of paste I'm talking about just like personal opinions on all sorts of stuff I [TS]

  guess that's when you venture into what hang on like why would I want to people want to hear you [TS]

  and I talk about hanging a mirror or things like that so I guess that's when it gets a bit. [TS]

  Yeah and that that is what defines the two dudes talking genre is those kinds of moments [TS]

  and then we probably need to get better at that than I think. [TS]

  I think my hanging in there and it was you know and not enjoying [TS]

  and they can't believe I can't even remember if I left in your movie your movie review of yeah you did leave it like [TS]

  brilliant it was brilliant it could attain good if you had taken the paper when you said I'm insane [TS]

  or you let me know where to go. You left me in the wind. Sorry I'm sorry. [TS]

  Farrier you could have like said what did you like about it [TS]

  and tell me more that you are now saying that my level of interest is your of do you think do you feel like because I'm [TS]

  not a podcasting. [TS]

  Well I wasn't a podcast a snap before we started this [TS]

  and I have since gotten gotten into a small handful of recommendations from you know a lot of that I've gotten very [TS]

  into if I'm honest I really enjoy them now [TS]

  but I was I was a bit of a novice whereas you obviously have this long history is something you're influenced by. [TS]

  Can can one have a podcasting style and therefore be influenced or are you just you know people just himself [TS]

  or do you feel that having listened to so many he kind of you know did take on a persona. I mean how does that work. [TS]

  Well when I listen to some of your podcasting hearer's that's like a little tricky term for them while they are here. [TS]

  I listen to some of those guys you know. [TS]

  Hey you've named before you know the kind of jumps your cases and yes of the world. [TS]

  They made a great podcast and I've become a real big fan of them [TS]

  and occasionally there are little bits of you in the pod Pod caster I think that was very much like something they [TS]

  would say or some little sum to some little thing and I wonder if that's just because you're like those guys [TS]

  and that's why you like them because they're kind of like you anyway or whether [TS]

  or not you know you would be influenced by that do you. I'm just I would guess it's more. Well let's put it this way. [TS]

  I forget the name for the for the this in for an interesting phenomenon [TS]

  when if you if you ask people about other people can can you describe this other person. [TS]

  They will give you answers that are very narrow and very definitive. That guy is a jerk. You know she is very nice. [TS]

  Yeah but if you ask them to describe themselves people talk about their reactions to things situationally. [TS]

  I was grumpy this morning because I didn't have my coffee and or I was feeling really happy [TS]

  and so I was in a generous mood. [TS]

  You know people kind of acknowledge external factors [TS]

  and that people will also acknowledge for themselves that they are different in different situations so again if you [TS]

  think that people think someone is a jerk they imagine he's a jerk all the time and he's a jerk to his wife [TS]

  and his dog and his post man he is always a jerk [TS]

  and this person who is nice is nice to everyone is just flowers all the time [TS]

  and if you think about that you can you can understand that you can see how this this is the case. [TS]

  Just imagine other people you know in your life if you have some boss that you hate it's hard to imagine that that boss [TS]

  really love their dog and goes home alive I was actually going to take in the dog and like really happy right. [TS]

  It's hard to visualize. [TS]

  We calmly took smug I was I think I was trying to smuggle was I don't I was trying to be some ridiculous thing to say [TS]

  about a dog. Oh so so. [TS]

  So it was the point of this is just that this is one of those cases where as I [TS]

  and me I am aware of the different facets of me in a way that that other people are not and so when I [TS]

  when I'm on this pod cast on you and you ask my being influenced by other people or is it is it what is it. [TS]

  This to me feels much more like when I'm in a social situation [TS]

  and this is this is the social side of me I'm making a real effort to be a much more talkative much more outgoing [TS]

  person so the podcast me is is this side of my personality that is not often expressed which is also why it's this is [TS]

  an interesting thing for me to do because I would say that the majority of the time of my life I am I'm very very quiet [TS]

  very sort of introverted and I just sort of want to be left alone. And so when I when I do this I kind of. [TS]

  I gear up for this in the same way that I gear up for going out to a party with a bunch of people I was like OK I have [TS]

  to I have to switch into the different personality type and so that [TS]

  and so that's what this is the reason why I might sound like some of the other pod casters is because this aspect of my [TS]

  personality is maybe similar to that sort of aspect of those other people's personalities [TS]

  and that's why I like to listen to their shows there. [TS]

  That's that's that's that there's different sides of people [TS]

  and the listeners now are hearing this external sexual side of me but I mean I'm thinking about you [TS]

  and you always seem relatively consistent to me [TS]

  but this is just me kind of falling for the same sort of bias I imagine. [TS]

  All right I know how to how to you are a different sort of person when you're doing interviews or when you're [TS]

  when you're talking to me as opposed to the rest of your life. You seem really consistent. But I said I think I might. [TS]

  Same but I don't know I don't feel I don't feel very different. [TS]

  Like it's like doing these is not a big deal to me and like I don't go into a mode [TS]

  or anything it's it really is just a case of you know you say well let's call it seven thirty and start chatting and [TS]

  and we chat before we start recording and they write The only difference is we've pressed a red button [TS]

  and then right keep talking [TS]

  and then And then there's you know as soon as we stop recording we end up talking for another hour after this about yes [TS]

  whatever. [TS]

  But secret after show you have here so I don't like I don't know I feel like I am aware of the audience at all times [TS]

  when we're recording like I am [TS]

  and I'm not so lost in much to check with you that I forget that what we're doing has has business [TS]

  and I guess that colors have candid maybe I would be about certain things. Yes. [TS]

  And maybe you know make you credit it more carefully. [TS]

  But I think it's pretty much it's pretty much what I'm like and I am just I am listening to what you say [TS]

  and then just whatever pops into my head I then say [TS]

  or asks I guess as you mentioned before you have prove this because you at a later time think the same thoughts [TS]

  or maybe you are the one super consistent human I'm the robot. So human that would be. [TS]

  Or something like that as some of the twist to the whole thing would tend I'm a robot [TS]

  and that you've come across a turtle in the desert it's upside down why aren't you turning it over Brady this probe [TS]

  thing by the way which you've been a little running joke. Yeah. [TS]

  Tortoise which I've quite enjoyed at first a few people seem to get a bit riled by on the read I think I was like being [TS]

  unfair of me I think people now get kind of my friends and it's a joke but what do you think about people having this. [TS]

  Seeing here this is kind of methodical being like heavy heavy kind of enjoyed playing to that. [TS]

  Do you sometimes feel a bit like you know I am from flesh and blood. Do I not bleed sort of thing. [TS]

  Well I wish I didn't bleed [TS]

  and I would say that if if there is a fundamental core that runs through my personality at all times it is of a [TS]

  relative methodical ness and I can say that from what I have gotten similar comments my entire life [TS]

  and as you were saying just moments ago we're always aware of the audience when recording something like this [TS]

  and there's always things that you would say and you know in private as opposed to in a public forum [TS]

  and there are many times in my life where people have asked that the man you have just come to like the coldest [TS]

  conclusion possible based on these possible facts like that is that's just that's just unbelievably unhuman think well [TS]

  yes but you're not arguing with my conclusion or the startling facts and so I do. [TS]

  Yeah there is a certain kind of methodical ness that I do try to apply to just about everything in life. [TS]

  But yeah I mean obviously. [TS]

  Like everyone else I am susceptible to all kinds of cognitive biases and all of that stuff [TS]

  but I do try to be methodical [TS]

  and that that is that is a kind of feedback I've been getting from people in my life for for all of my life [TS]

  and I think one place that this comes up where with family sometimes it drives some members of my family a little bit [TS]

  crazy is that when I make decisions about something. [TS]

  If it turns out later that I'm wrong or I just don't agonize about decisions or I don't agonize about past decisions [TS]

  and I think that people sometimes perceive that as a. [TS]

  How can you not agonize about the fact that you were wrong as well [TS]

  and I made a decision based on the things that I knew at the time [TS]

  and there was no other decision for me to possibly make given the information that I knew if I knew what I knew now [TS]

  then that I would have made a different decision [TS]

  but I didn't know that so there's no point in running over this saying you are incapable of regret I would not say that [TS]

  I'm incapable of regret [TS]

  but it's just I don't have a record do you ever regret things I can't think of anything I regret to be honest now. [TS]

  I've had to say that I am incapable is a for a difference. [TS]

  Difference taken from do you regret maybe I should say maybe one day you'll regret something [TS]

  but you never have in all your life until now. [TS]

  Regret is a heart a regret presumes that you could have acted differently under the circumstances under which you found [TS]

  her. So you're just saying it doesn't exist. I'm not saying it doesn't exist but it is. [TS]

  It implies like an impossibility in some ways with with regret. Could you have possible to regret. [TS]

  No people obviously do regret things and it may be just not sensible because you made you made decisions. [TS]

  I can I can I can understand regret. [TS]

  If if a decision is made on the edge you know if you're if you're sort of fifty one percent one way [TS]

  and forty nine percent another way and you pick the wrong one then I can kind of understand regret [TS]

  but I would say that I I don't often find myself in those kinds of situations where it's fifty nine forty one for [TS]

  something that's important. [TS]

  I find that most decisions seem pretty heavily weighted one way or the other [TS]

  and then that makes regret more difficult because all the evidence at the time is pointing in one particular way. [TS]

  So can you regret not having having had more evidence at the time. [TS]

  How would you have acquired such evidence that this is this is my point right if if if if the previous me in a way that [TS]

  you don't know which you now regret. [TS]

  Yes but but the version of me who makes the Past me who made that decision didn't know that he needed more evidence [TS]

  and so could not have pursued such actions and so therefore therefore there was no regret to be had. [TS]

  Sometimes it's back to my roots [TS]

  and you're incapable of regret it is the you know I I guess if I haven't yet come across a major decision that was on [TS]

  that was very much on the edge in which I decided wrongly I think that circumstance is a circumstance under which I can [TS]

  easily envision a genuine genuine regret. [TS]

  But as I said I often think I made the decision that I made at the time [TS]

  and I would have I would make the same decision again given the same information that I knew them. [TS]

  But yes this is all to say that as I have I have been hearing the the robot slash computer comparison from every one of [TS]

  my life for all of my life. [TS]

  So it's no surprise that it comes up when people listen to the podcast hear me just talking about stuff I think. [TS]

  I think since almost a third or fourth podcast some people have been saying that I hope there will be more. [TS]

  We've never really I don't know if we've done that I guess is something to think about addressing at some point. [TS]

  How we going to address this weekend. [TS]

  So are we going to decide now or have we decided or are you going to let people know [TS]

  or what how should we believe that or is it just a big district. Is it just another abrupt end in like the other ones. [TS]

  It would be really terrible if it ended right now. I got there. [TS]