◼ ► and I'm going to guess maybe you're going to be wrong a lot as well unless you come prepared [TS]
◼ ► I think you know me well enough to know that I have come prepared. But is that a bad thing. [TS]
◼ ► when I make those videos you know that's that's why I like a podcast is a different kind of thing right I can just I [TS]
◼ ► can just talk to you and the expectations the expectations are lowered. It's a different format. [TS]
◼ ► So you think because well because you've written a script there's a new a new level of responsibility on you on the [TS]
◼ ► Internet. If you're if you're making something for other people and it is it is a purportedly factual thing. [TS]
◼ ► And if you're not just a total jerk there's some kind of burden on you to make sure that what you're saying is correct [TS]
◼ ► and I think that that partly comes from just having having an audience of people who are interested in maybe hearing [TS]
◼ ► what you have to say you have to make sure that what you're saying to them is is right because those people are then [TS]
◼ ► and if you said something that's wrong it's like you're making the world worse because you put out like this this [TS]
◼ ► incorrect piece of information that might also have a real chance of spreading to other people [TS]
◼ ► and to their conversations. And there's just there's just no good and that would make me feel very guilty. [TS]
◼ ► Yes yes are you wanting them to be really correct because you feel this responsibility to make the world. [TS]
◼ ► I would say very honestly that that a huge part of it is actually that I just I don't want to be wrong in public right [TS]
◼ ► Yeah there's a pride I guess the thing that I'm really the root that I'm really afraid of is if you go back [TS]
◼ ► I am trying to convince people of something there. Or the video about the Electoral College. [TS]
◼ ► but I'm trying to convince you that that the copyright system that we currently have is kind of a terrible idea. [TS]
◼ ► and the thing that I live in terror of on those days the days that I have uploaded a I'm trying to convince you video [TS]
◼ ► is that within the first thirty minutes someone is going to leave a comment that just demolish is my central argument [TS]
◼ ► and that is that is a terrifying thing to to worry about because you know I've just made this video I've put it up on [TS]
◼ ► the Internet a bunch of people are watching it right now I'm doing my best to try and convince you of something [TS]
◼ ► and I'm very happy in casual conversations to try to change my mind and to discover that I am wrong about something [TS]
◼ ► But to have that process happen in front of maybe hundreds of thousands of people is kind of terribly embarrassing. [TS]
◼ ► or the little thing that slipped through the net because something that was said to me by a very wise man it was very [TS]
◼ ► It can be the small thing that undoes you because someone might point out you said that that treaty was signed on [TS]
◼ ► and suddenly they use that mistake to undermine every single other thing you said in your video your argument so you [TS]
◼ ► wear if you're going to get you're going to trip over the small thing or are you worried about something so huge [TS]
◼ ► I worry about everything but I do have to keep my own sanity I do have a kind of hierarchy of errors [TS]
◼ ► and so at at the top of this the worst thing is what we've just been discussing is the your argument is invalid error. [TS]
◼ ► There are lots and lots of factual errors that do creep into my videos and that it is just it is totally unavoidable. [TS]
◼ ► but it's survivable if it's an error that doesn't relate to the main point necessarily so like you say the treaty [TS]
◼ ► or if you're always doing something just a little bit off it does start to undermine your your main point. [TS]
◼ ► And at the bottom of this hierarchy I have things like pronunciation errors which I have made an embarrassingly large [TS]
◼ ► I'd rather not but I don't in my own opinion I don't think that really detracts from a central point but and [TS]
◼ ► but enough little mistakes like Treaty years that's that's a bad sign right that doesn't that doesn't help. [TS]
◼ ► So you'll be quite introspective here talking about you know how you feel about your videos [TS]
◼ ► and errors in them how do you feel watching other people's videos their no other content on the internet does it. [TS]
◼ ► Do you apply the same standards to other people that your blog here so often and get really upset [TS]
◼ ► Almost every time the person talking right is an expert on this topic and I have no ability to judge whether [TS]
◼ ► Right there's an asymmetry here so I would say you know most of the educational videos that I watch on on youtube. [TS]
◼ ► I wouldn't even notice a mistake right the people who are making them are so much more integrated into the topic. [TS]
◼ ► And they've done so much more on it that they're always going to be super aware of the stakes that come up whereas I [TS]
◼ ► I'm going to guess that you get e-mails from people who are wanting to correct mistakes in your in your videos right [TS]
◼ ► where you're then on the receiving end right you've made a video and you put it out there to the world [TS]
◼ ► and you know someone in the world knows more about a topic or they think need a more about a topic than you do [TS]
◼ ► I mean I think I mean I guess in most cases like you say I've been interviewing experts so I am a step removed so I can [TS]
◼ ► and that is that hardly any of my videos are scripted or pre-prepared and I guess that I like conversations [TS]
◼ ► and as we were saying at the start of this chat people forgive a lot more in conversations than perhaps they do in a [TS]
◼ ► You can always say well hey you know there was no script we were just chatting how can you know he [TS]
◼ ► or she didn't know what questions I was going to ask how could you possibly expect them to say everything perfectly so [TS]
◼ ► I guess I have that extra level of protection that doesn't make the wrongness any less I think it makes it maybe less [TS]
◼ ► embarrassing in a way. So in terms of dealing with it I guess that's another thing to talk about. [TS]
◼ ► So for me personally the way out the way I look at this is I try to keep a record of all the mistakes I've made on my [TS]
◼ ► but with a correct mistakes from the previous day's paper like it's the best bit of the newspaper saying apologize for [TS]
◼ ► but my favorite my favorite mistakes section is the one published in The Economist magazine. [TS]
◼ ► Well it's normally hilarious because the errors they're correcting are so minor as to be laughable. [TS]
◼ ► Write that and I do I do look it over and I mean sometimes they have genuine mistakes right. [TS]
◼ ► but for the most part you know I think they have a deep apologies for every minor minor mistakes [TS]
◼ ► That's probably really technically SMA too isn't it because you're probably thinking Gosh if they're apologizing for [TS]
◼ ► Yeah that is definitely it's a good P.R. Move. OK so I'm looking at my most famous video the U.K. [TS]
◼ ► and I got some of these are just embarrassing to look at if I haven't looked at this list in a long time [TS]
◼ ► and it is really uncomfortable. OK One of the very very top one I will tell you at the end. [TS]
◼ ► And so I have a note here that as you know in these are these are notes for if I ever redo this video do you know what [TS]
◼ ► And also OK so a minor mistake was I was trying to do the national colors to some extent and I reversed England [TS]
◼ ► and Wales I had. So England should be white whale should be red I had it reversed in the video. [TS]
◼ ► I neglected to mention that the United Kingdom is part of the Commonwealth realm I think I described it as being sort [TS]
◼ ► of above the Commonwealth realm like it rules over this thing not as part of the thing itself [TS]
◼ ► but you know here's the thing I'm going to mess up again if they don't know how to do it right. [TS]
◼ ► Yeah although I notoriously mispronounced everything in the U.K. As well. I'll take your word for it. [TS]
◼ ► Yeah I have got a house also Yeah I said the Church of England was the Church of the whole of the United Kingdom [TS]
◼ ► but it is not as the name itself might specify it is just the Church of England it is not the Church of Scotland as [TS]
◼ ► well. Don't do this to yourself. No it's I have I can feel your pain. Ah God This one this one just killed me. [TS]
◼ ► I use the word sovereign in just the wrong way many times and I just I felt really dumb about that. [TS]
◼ ► I called constituent countries sovereign and this is not the correct term to use it all to describe the situation. [TS]
◼ ► Oh I know and then I have I have this hole that I messed up a couple of places in the order. [TS]
◼ ► and there were a couple that I got out of order which is also just very painful. Let me tell you this. [TS]
◼ ► OK I know this is about being wrong on the Internet and being wrong on the Internet is a bad thing [TS]
◼ ► but as someone who used to work in newspapers I can promise you being wrong in newspapers is worse because it's printed [TS]
◼ ► so many times and it's you know it's a hard copy everywhere and when you go out for a coffee break and you see piles [TS]
◼ ► I'm page that has happened to me one of my first ever front page stories was about a big macho parade that was [TS]
◼ ► happening in my hometown and I swear I get into work the next day Mr front page thinking I was all that [TS]
◼ ► So all these people would turn up at the wrong time and it was this I when I went from hero to zero very quickly. [TS]
◼ ► Oh the best example of this that didn't happen to may happen to my mom there was a solar eclipse. [TS]
◼ ► And he was given the job of writing a story with labor you know he doesn't know too much about solar eclipses [TS]
◼ ► and he obviously misunderstood something he was told and he wrote in the story on the front page of the paper. [TS]
◼ ► Big big news today. Do not look at the solar eclipse. And unless you are wearing sunglasses. [TS]
◼ ► Oh gosh you know look at it even if you are and it will set you to do that the newspaper had to like old T.V. [TS]
◼ ► and have them put out these emergency broadcast saying don't do what it said in the newspaper today you will go blind. [TS]
◼ ► You can't kill the web page you can't print newspapers. You've just made this mistake that is there in hard copy. [TS]
◼ ► Those those two are particularly bad because you are compelling someone to action in an incorrect way [TS]
◼ ► but eventually a permanently life changing kind of way. Yeah I'd rather have someone miss the parade and go blind. [TS]
◼ ► Yet to have someone not know the perfect order of the British territories populations that is less bad than missing a [TS]
◼ ► Yeah I was going to like you know turn up to the wrong country because they misunderstood gravity. [TS]
◼ ► Now compared to your story of potentially blinding people the error that burned in my soul is going to compare is going [TS]
◼ ► So what's this one that's top of the list this is this is top of the list and I try not to think about it [TS]
◼ ► and this mistake that I made in my first video will still just pop into my head and I feel great shame [TS]
◼ ► Right so next year Great Britain we have the island itself the geographical entity just sitting to the west. [TS]
◼ ► and I say OK we have this island which is Ireland we have Northern Ireland which is part of the U.K. [TS]
◼ ► and then I move on to talk about the country that takes up the rest of the islands which I made a big point. [TS]
◼ ► I hammered it home that the name of this country is the Republic of Ireland. Now here's the problem. [TS]
◼ ► I am a citizen of this country. Yeah right. And I say is that the name is the Republican violence. [TS]
◼ ► And immediately after the video goes up I have a whole bunch of people e-mailing me going that's not the Republic of [TS]
◼ ► and I think this might even happen on a public forum that might be a record of this somewhere. [TS]
◼ ► That's the name and he says that's not the name. And I go Yes it is I have my passport in the other room. [TS]
◼ ► I checked it before I made the video. That's the official name. He goes check again. I go fine I will. [TS]
◼ ► I walk into the next room. I look at the passport and it says Ireland. It does not say Republic of Ireland. [TS]
◼ ► You know people don't think it's called Ireland but it's you know it's really the Republic of Ireland [TS]
◼ ► Right and I'm a citizen of this place and I got it wrong in such a public way and I thought I had checked it [TS]
◼ ► when I glanced at my passport my brain was like oh yeah it's the Republic of Ireland that's what it says in that piece [TS]
◼ ► or whether it's something that it's more people who make videos think that perhaps you should point out why you haven't [TS]
◼ ► and corrected it would you know it was a hard thing to say technically your title right there there's a couple things [TS]
◼ ► I cannot submit a fixed version of the video and have You Tube replace it with and I'm like [TS]
◼ ► And this is both a blessing and a curse because I've I've spoken to other You Tubers about this. [TS]
◼ ► If You Tube did allow people to correct the video to upload an amended version I would still only have that one video [TS]
◼ ► and changing a whole bunch of stuff in it because even if I watch it now there's a couple places where I know there's a [TS]
◼ ► What I have to just record the whole of the audio right which would then doubtlessly introduce some kind of additional [TS]
◼ ► So if You Tube did allow me to replace the videos I would have only made one video so it is a blessing in the sense [TS]
◼ ► but it is it's a curse because it forces you to live with your mistakes right which is which is why I think I tend to [TS]
◼ ► Come up with something else out there that I want to talk to you about because I know you're a stickler for things [TS]
◼ ► and I don't want to come across as the advocate for romance because I hate wrongness as well you know I think that obviously [TS]
◼ ► I've obviously has to be your position right you're the advocate for wrong as you are making any kind of argument [TS]
◼ ► Let me put this to you I don't know if it's a term you're familiar with but I mean I used to work for the P.D. [TS]
◼ ► OK I'll give you an example say there's been some some catastrophe or something's happened something something serious. [TS]
◼ ► Well I don't want to belittle serious catastrophes but they happen and there's a lot of interest in them and [TS]
◼ ► and information until it's been you know triple checked and confirmed by the appropriate source [TS]
◼ ► So long and now I'll change and say well actually it turns out no one's died or that it might be. [TS]
◼ ► Turns out it's even worse than we thought and this has happened and I used to work for the B.B.C. [TS]
◼ ► and We used to sit in meetings sometimes and discuss this cavalier attitude and all the B.B.C. [TS]
◼ ► People be very sniffy and smug and say what we would never do that and it's irresponsible to be incorrect. [TS]
◼ ► But when these things happen when when a big story like this happens I find myself gravitating towards the sky [TS]
◼ ► or the more gossipy the more gossipy ones because most of the time it turns out they're right and their rights are [TS]
◼ ► and I think there's a case to be made for risking wrongness for the sake of sort of time and information. [TS]
◼ ► and I won't tell you any more information and the first thing you do is you go straight to the tabloids and stuff [TS]
◼ ► and if you find out this is what they're really going to have a mistress and I was with this celebrity and right right. [TS]
◼ ► and I in this in this ten episode series we should see if we can do one on the news because I think we can have a whole [TS]
◼ ► a whole separate conversation about that. Yeah but but for the fourth episode has done that. [TS]
◼ ► I would say that the whole reason that those tabloids exist is because you're exactly right where the B.B.C. [TS]
◼ ► Is all stiff upper lip and you know someone has resigned and we're not going to tell you why. [TS]
◼ ► and I think I have a real problem with that just because of naturally people's short attention spans [TS]
◼ ► and the way people memories work is that well sure a news organization can say that they're wrong but not for long. [TS]
◼ ► But lots of people don't pay attention for the full duration of the story and they all know and I know why Sky [TS]
◼ ► That's when I think of selling point what it was like What. So OK I I you know if I was if I was in charge of some T.V. [TS]
◼ ► News organization I would try to resist that pressure but I'm not going to I'm not going to sit here [TS]
◼ ► I understand structurally why it happens. I would just say I think that that's that's not good. [TS]
◼ ► but I do think this kind of is kind of segues into the issue of how much time can you spend researching anything. [TS]
◼ ► but you are the worst person in the world to run a news network that something would happen [TS]
◼ ► but I would like to hear about you know where is the where is the kind of point that is a that's a really interesting [TS]
◼ ► or newspapers with a breaking story there on a certain they're on the cutting edge of one side of that the quick side. [TS]
◼ ► But but even on the long side right so you know on average it takes me sort of five weeks to make the videos [TS]
◼ ► and thought you know boy I had just the right amount of time I have always thought I could I could use another five [TS]
◼ ► and just record an animated over the weekend to just get it done right you can't continue to research. [TS]
◼ ► but the the cost the way I look at it the cost of perfection is infinite in terms of time and in terms of resources. [TS]
◼ ► or how many experts do you want to contact before you're OK with this and I mean I will give you I will give you a. [TS]
◼ ► I'll give you an example of a place where I thought my ten tendencies to continue to research [TS]
◼ ► but for the last video about the CBOE effect I was really nervous about this because I felt a little bit responsible in [TS]
◼ ► and I felt like there was a greater burden in a video that touches upon a medical topic to make sure that it's really [TS]
◼ ► Yeah and so I ended up going through a whole bunch of research archives online trying to find papers from doctors [TS]
◼ ► or researchers who had worked on this this know CBOE effect you know the opposite of the placebo. Yeah. [TS]
◼ ► And I ended up sending out about twenty emails to people who had published a bunch of papers [TS]
◼ ► and I ended up getting I think in the end I got six people to reply and they had looked over the script [TS]
◼ ► and basically every one of them gave it a thumbs up and amazing for most of them I got a thumbs up [TS]
◼ ► You know I can't have it be publicly known that I like gave is the thumbs up right because they face a similar kinds of [TS]
◼ ► kinds of issues but they just say if I said the places where these people worked everybody would recognize the names. [TS]
◼ ► But even after I'm getting thumbs up from people in the field I had this feeling of OK I have to [TS]
◼ ► but my nephew doing the tipping point for you kind of that kind of rational thought that you know well I can't do it [TS]
◼ ► Well I mean that is the ugly side of the business is that at a certain point you have to pay your own bills. [TS]
◼ ► There is there is that pressure on one side of it right I can't release one video a year because I will be homeless at [TS]
◼ ► but it is it is something I keep in mind very much that that the cost of perfection is infinite [TS]
◼ ► and I think because of that I might not be doing another medical topic any time soon because that was a that was a very [TS]
◼ ► I kept I kept waiting for some e-mail that would just you know make the whole empire crumble. [TS]
◼ ► Let me ask you something else and I'm I'm not I mean I'm I'm conscious of time and we can't talk forever. [TS]
◼ ► But you do talk there that sort of sources and I and this does tie into things wrong on the Internet. Yeah yeah. [TS]
◼ ► and I know you spent a lot time in libraries and things like that. Is can the Internet be trusted. [TS]
◼ ► The Internet represents a whole lot of things. So I think with where this comes up the most is like with Wikipedia. [TS]
◼ ► when I used to teach kids there was there was a fierce debate between teachers on the pro vs the anti Wikipedia side [TS]
◼ ► and I told my students if they were researching something for me like Wikipedia is totally OK copy [TS]
◼ ► and pasting from Wikipedia is not. But there's no place to get a better overview from things. [TS]
◼ ► You'd be amazed the number of times I've been with like top professors in the field in asking a question [TS]
◼ ► and if if you just want to check some quick fact about something which is totally reliable there's reasons why you [TS]
◼ ► but the thing that I am occasionally disturbed by is if I see something interesting on a weekly article for a topic [TS]
◼ ► or the original source of some statistic that is mentioned that extra material to talk to another day. [TS]
◼ ► You can't you can't you know you can't just make a video from the Wikipedia page right. It's not possible. [TS]
◼ ► But but the thing that is disturbing is the number of times that that source link doesn't go anywhere [TS]
◼ ► and sometimes where the context of the source link says something that is completely contrary to the feeling that you [TS]
◼ ► And so nothing in the world is perfectly reliable and it's it is hard to know when to trust a source completely [TS]
◼ ► and you know for me again while the why we can have a conversation about newspapers all the time for me. [TS]
◼ ► News that that is the absolute bottom of the barrel for me right that is that is if you want an accurate representation [TS]
◼ ► of knowledge of the state of the world that is the worst place that you could possibly start discussing a whole bunch [TS]
◼ ► Yeah maybe don't share this with them most of my best friends though so I try to write so that that is at the bottom of [TS]
◼ ► when you're looking at statistics the organization producing those statistics has some agenda right there pro [TS]
◼ ► and I think on the Internet too often people will just dismiss that they'll say oh you can't trust it is that from that [TS]
◼ ► But an interesting question is maybe they're pro whatever because because of those statistics. [TS]
◼ ► And so there's going to be some organization that is advocating for that thing because of those statistics [TS]
◼ ► and that is yeah I don't have a solid answer for that it ultimately just comes down to a judgment call [TS]
◼ ► and it is very very hard sometimes to know who to trust. And at one point what point you have to stop. Stop looking. [TS]
◼ ► I will just mention one one last thing here quickly which is I wish I could come up with an example off the top of my [TS]
◼ ► and I come across information about how some historical figure the existence of this person is not certain [TS]
◼ ► Yeah I know this is true for one of the Greek philosophers that there is there is a serious debate over whether [TS]
◼ ► or not they existed or whether they were just a debating tool in the writings of other philosophers. [TS]
◼ ► And that's probably not going to ever be solved. Yeah right. We'll never know maybe if if you know Greek philosopher X. [TS]
◼ ► Was real or not real or if they were just a rhetorical device that was used by everyone at the time or an amalgamation. [TS]
◼ ► Robin Hood has sort of said today this amalgamation of a whole bunch of different rogues around at the time [TS]
◼ ► Right that's the same kind of thing an infinite amount of research is never going to make that situation any more clear [TS]
◼ ► or stating something too clearly which is one of the reasons why I can say my videos take a very long time because I [TS]
◼ ► think sometimes if you listen to my wording I have chosen very careful wording to not explicitly say something [TS]
◼ ► when I run into those kinds of situations where you know maybe maybe we don't know maybe there's some amount of uncertainty [TS]
◼ ► and so I think very hard about how to get past something without necessarily bringing this up is a big problem. [TS]
◼ ► And I mean I guess the other thing about internet wrongness that sort of flows from that in some ways is that we [TS]
◼ ► haven't touched on is the amazing ability now for incorrect information to propagate replicate. [TS]
◼ ► Spread wildly and it's become this crazy Google searches show that all the time day he went to so [TS]
◼ ► Oh just happened so quickly and so you know pervading. Yeah you come across these this sort of information. [TS]
◼ ► Or it's very hard to find out the original source of the thing because it's just so convoluted [TS]
◼ ► and it makes you think of the quote right which jumps right into my head which is that you know the a lie gets halfway [TS]
◼ ► around the world before the truth has a chance to put pants on which is usually quoted to Winston Churchill. [TS]
◼ ► The origin of it is also uncertain and I think that's those kinds of things which is very interesting sometimes [TS]
◼ ► or one hundred percent I mean unless you're a mathematician I guess mathematicians know one hundred percent. [TS]
◼ ► I think there's one thing we know almost one hundred percent and that's that at times pretty much come to an end. [TS]