The Talk Show

5: Live From WWDC 2012, with Cabel Sasser


00:00:00   okay shut up an elegant start

00:00:05   welcome to the evening welcome to the

00:00:07   the first live episode of the talkshow

00:00:10   exciting

00:00:12   thank thank you for having me I we are

00:00:16   here at 111 minna in the zapper room

00:00:19   pretty cool very nice

00:00:22   yeah and joining me for the show up here

00:00:25   on stage is cable sasser hello thank you

00:00:30   for cheering and not doing so I was just

00:00:33   saying the cable a couple minutes ago

00:00:35   funny enough I've done three live

00:00:37   podcasts in my life and all three have

00:00:41   been with cancer I don't know how and I

00:00:43   i didn't realize that until after I'd

00:00:46   invited him to do this show and then I

00:00:48   was like looking back on it was a couple

00:00:51   years ago we did a thing at macworld

00:00:52   expo where we were in like a booth it's

00:00:55   almost hard to call it alive episode how

00:00:57   would you describe that but this is very

00:00:59   strange

00:01:00   I just remember being in the booth at

00:01:02   the plastic window next door and write

00:01:03   so many people walking by and me being

00:01:05   so distracted wanting to look at

00:01:07   everybody walking by and people sort of

00:01:08   waving and knocking on the people i and

00:01:12   and the gist of it was it was supposed

00:01:13   to be soundproof because the the show

00:01:15   floor expo is really really acoustically

00:01:18   horrendous it so they put us in this

00:01:21   plastic fish bowl and it did sound

00:01:24   better the audio came out good any idea

00:01:25   where always that they were going to

00:01:26   pipe it live to the other side and that

00:01:29   people could be there but nobody could

00:01:32   get that close to us and there was

00:01:34   nobody there

00:01:34   no and all we did is it was me and cable

00:01:37   and your PIN so foundered Stephen Frank

00:01:39   talking and people would walk by and

00:01:41   right when they walk by the speaker they

00:01:42   was her second look around see us in the

00:01:46   fishbowl and then get creeped out and

00:01:48   radical it's absolutely true that

00:01:50   conversation is notable because that's

00:01:52   when we brought up the concept of claim

00:01:55   charter that's where we told you we've

00:01:56   been joking about this in the office

00:01:58   like trying to come up with the term for

00:01:59   these situations where people make these

00:02:01   outrageous claims that you know are

00:02:02   going to be false but they still you

00:02:04   know dedicate themselves to it and Steve

00:02:06   came up with this term claim chatter and

00:02:08   I remember you laughing for maybe about

00:02:10   six minutes tricky

00:02:11   heard that and the rest is history you

00:02:14   guys still have the domain right yeah i

00:02:15   do have claimed so if you guys are like

00:02:17   anybody wants and needs to do anything

00:02:19   chatter dot-com yes is and John sends a

00:02:21   check every month which is totally

00:02:23   awesome

00:02:24   that's pretty much what's keeping the

00:02:25   company afloat right now though so I

00:02:27   don't wanna I don't push my look you

00:02:29   know I have a confession to make I've

00:02:31   never actually listen to the talk show

00:02:33   but but but that didn't stop me from

00:02:36   reading it one star right that's just

00:02:40   want you to know I'm doing my part and

00:02:42   doing my part

00:02:43   yeah we we have a good crowd here we

00:02:45   have a very good crowd i suspect that

00:02:46   most of the people here are the two star

00:02:47   review people i think 23 yeah i think a

00:02:52   lot of you and 3 star raiders here which

00:02:54   is very nice i didn't I don't think the

00:02:56   ones are people showed up but but then

00:02:59   the other time we did a live show was

00:03:01   Jason's now who's here

00:03:03   editorial director of macworld back in

00:03:05   2007 he invited me to do a live daring

00:03:09   fireball we called it I on the show

00:03:11   floor and this time it was much more

00:03:13   like this there's a little stage or

00:03:15   kiosk ered do something and yeah a real

00:03:17   crowd of people who were there

00:03:19   and-and-and I had you and I agreed to it

00:03:23   in advance ended up it was the day that

00:03:26   the original iphone was introduced as a

00:03:29   pretty intense so it was like five hours

00:03:31   after the keynote and I listened to it

00:03:34   on the plane right out just to make sure

00:03:35   I don't ask you the same questions again

00:03:36   and I was really blown away by what we

00:03:40   talked about like how it was either

00:03:42   depression like we was just about to ask

00:03:45   if we want we look really swear way

00:03:47   yeah ah i would say the one thing you

00:03:49   were a little bit wrong about is that

00:03:51   great thanks for well I'm habited no i

00:03:53   haven't listened to it yeah not bad

00:03:55   motherfucker a jot it down from what you

00:03:57   said is you said well there's a question

00:03:59   about ball iphone thing is gonna be a

00:04:01   flop

00:04:02   no no all right we don't know there and

00:04:06   there was a show of hands we didn't

00:04:07   think the other there were another

00:04:08   product that can introduce the same day

00:04:10   and I didn't even remember this same day

00:04:13   that the original iphone was introduced

00:04:15   apple TV was introduced this wow the old

00:04:18   spinning hard disk out and be somebody

00:04:21   that's quite what they and I both on the

00:04:24   same day

00:04:24   and the crowd was obviously very smart

00:04:26   or at least representative of the market

00:04:29   a large because you asked you said okay

00:04:31   show of hands and I am how many people

00:04:33   here think they're gonna buy an iphone

00:04:35   and everybody's hands go and we had to

00:04:37   like interrupting like dad's plane to

00:04:39   all the listeners who are listening to

00:04:40   the podcast okay everybody's hand just

00:04:42   went up it was literally everybody's

00:04:43   hand yeah and then later on like you

00:04:46   know 20 minutes later we're talking

00:04:47   about the new Apple TV and you

00:04:49   you said I hey who's gonna buy an Apple

00:04:51   TV and there's like one guy and that's

00:04:55   why it's a hobby right yeah I'm

00:04:57   interesting you said that you called it

00:05:02   the the question about the quote the

00:05:04   whole third-party developer thing

00:05:06   oh because it was a real Mary at that

00:05:08   point that's totally true

00:05:10   like we know in hindsight that the whole

00:05:11   first year the iphone there were no

00:05:13   third-party apps there was no apps or

00:05:14   book on that first day we actually

00:05:16   didn't even know that what would they

00:05:18   didn't do the sweet solution that no

00:05:20   that is a capital WWDC we'd solution

00:05:23   right that was provided air quotes if

00:05:25   you're listening at home that was six

00:05:26   months later at WWDC that first day just

00:05:30   you know Apple never tells you what's

00:05:31   not included right now so there was and

00:05:34   there was no answer on it I mean it was

00:05:36   presumably there's no apps because they

00:05:39   didn't say anything but it really made

00:05:41   sense at the time that there is

00:05:42   everybody sort of you know the word that

00:05:45   was passed along among attendees was

00:05:46   this was Steve's like precious

00:05:49   incredible device and he did not want

00:05:52   anything else on that phone right it was

00:05:54   just going to be what what Apple puts on

00:05:55   there and I kinda made logical sense at

00:05:58   the time like oh well that kind of sucks

00:06:00   for house but so it goes it was

00:06:02   wondering you said is that if we do get

00:06:05   the chance to write abs for this thing

00:06:06   you were like I'm gonna be all over it

00:06:08   yeah and that kind of didn't work out

00:06:10   that way that's an interesting point

00:06:11   because it was it things we have at that

00:06:15   point so you know we make consumers

00:06:18   stuff we made like audion which was this

00:06:19   early mp3 player and and and and stuff

00:06:22   more tuned to the average market and we

00:06:24   wanted to make a photo thing but that

00:06:26   was right before I photo came out and so

00:06:28   we kind of have this string of things

00:06:29   happen we're like Apple is going in this

00:06:31   consumer direction if we do that we're

00:06:33   just gonna get steamrolled every single

00:06:35   time and so I think we made a

00:06:36   subconscious which to we

00:06:38   have to be more professional we have to

00:06:39   shoot for bigger more complicated apps

00:06:41   for you know Pro users or else we're

00:06:43   just gonna keep getting steamrolled and

00:06:45   then the iphone really throw a curve

00:06:47   right because we were in this mode and

00:06:49   then iphone became the most consumer

00:06:51   great thing imaginable right like with

00:06:53   with the angry birds and the farting

00:06:55   apps and a host of you know it was like

00:06:57   it totally win in a direction that that

00:06:59   we were not 22 at that time so it's

00:07:01   really interesting so then you know

00:07:03   looking at it now in the context of the

00:07:04   ipad and and diet soda which is our iPad

00:07:07   version of our web editor that I you

00:07:09   know that's like our pro thing for the

00:07:10   ipad we still yet to really crack like

00:07:13   go back to consumer really you know

00:07:16   user-friendly consumer software and I i

00:07:18   I'd like us to go back in that direction

00:07:20   for all possible just trying to find the

00:07:21   right things first but i digress i'm

00:07:23   more more on that later on the other

00:07:27   thing that we I thought both of us

00:07:29   together we serve we sort of like just

00:07:30   talked her way into the idea during the

00:07:33   show of isn't everybody going to

00:07:36   immediately start clamoring for this

00:07:38   interface and this OS on something more

00:07:41   of like a tablet sauce yes I turns out

00:07:44   you have to get up and it it really is

00:07:48   just a big iphone let's behind it it

00:07:51   really does come across those two guys

00:07:52   who like recorded this podcast today and

00:07:55   they're claiming it was in 2007 on the

00:07:57   day the iphone into that's good right

00:07:59   the other thing we talked about that day

00:08:01   is our mutual long-standing obsession

00:08:05   with what was then called high DPI canal

00:08:08   called retina display mac software

00:08:10   yeah because and that's been a topic at

00:08:12   WWDC like long-term WWDC attendees will

00:08:15   recall from yeah i mean easily six seven

00:08:18   years ago I remember 2007 I think we got

00:08:22   Apple Design Award for Kota won and I

00:08:24   remember them saying onstage and it's

00:08:26   even got right you know high DPI assets

00:08:29   or whatever and everyone kind of laughs

00:08:30   too little because it was so far from

00:08:33   reality and I i don't know maybe 2006

00:08:35   2005 one of those years there was that

00:08:37   it was sort of like one of the main

00:08:39   themes WWDC long was get your apps high

00:08:42   DPI right get your at and we were so

00:08:45   excited this is january 2007 we thought

00:08:47   me and you thought that

00:08:50   retina display max were like around the

00:08:52   corner we are ready I've been thinking

00:08:54   that for a very long time to hell yeah

00:08:56   and now we can say we're right yeah

00:08:59   finally we are totally right so you saw

00:09:01   it you looked at it I i have 1i have a

00:09:04   review unit from apple and so I have it

00:09:06   it's great i guess i should do like an

00:09:09   off-the-cuff quick review like first

00:09:12   impression thing i would love to hear

00:09:14   that I i I'm so one thing I didn't know

00:09:18   before i started using it is the highest

00:09:21   DPI is the on the phones retina display

00:09:24   that's like 330 something and then that

00:09:27   I ipad pixels-per-inch is 266 or 267

00:09:33   something like done and now this one is

00:09:34   it to 20 so it's the lowest

00:09:36   pixels-per-inch but it's also the one

00:09:39   you naturally use the farthest distance

00:09:41   from your eyes sure

00:09:43   and my impression is easily that it's

00:09:44   the sharpest like while using it's the

00:09:46   one that seems the crazy sharpest oh man

00:09:49   I and it really feels like i'm using a

00:09:53   fake version of Mac os10 yep

00:09:56   ah yeah that's how retina things have

00:09:58   always felt right

00:09:59   you just have to peel off the little

00:10:00   sticker oh yes first and like like

00:10:03   somebody made and I know that they've

00:10:05   done this for demos and for keynote

00:10:07   swear if they want to show a zoomed-in

00:10:09   part of the interface right rejected

00:10:12   really big

00:10:13   yeah and I remember I i actually used to

00:10:15   collect these apple PR images that would

00:10:18   have these 2x or 3x mock-ups they would

00:10:20   be four giant banners in the apple store

00:10:22   you know various places it's always

00:10:24   interesting to see how they would

00:10:26   recognize these assets right long before

00:10:28   they did yeah I another example of it is

00:10:31   when they've done print ads over the

00:10:33   year that show the interface at greater

00:10:36   than real size they redo everything so

00:10:40   that the graphics are the quality of the

00:10:42   printing not you know you don't see

00:10:44   jaggies right and that's what it looks

00:10:46   like why you're just using the computer

00:10:48   it looks like you're using the fake

00:10:50   version they mocked up in Illustrator I

00:10:53   really need for the Yuuzhan a glossy

00:10:56   display

00:10:56   yeah I

00:10:57   and I mean obviously it's apple they're

00:11:02   going to save the greatest thing ever

00:11:04   but they were it really does it's just a

00:11:06   better-looking display than the phones

00:11:08   are the ipads I mean it just has better

00:11:09   color it it's it's just sort of

00:11:12   mind-blowing i was reading some gizmodo

00:11:14   comments and those guys didn't seem too

00:11:15   excited about that so i don't know i

00:11:18   think I side with those guys is really

00:11:20   just a joke

00:11:21   everything's a joke anyways I the other

00:11:26   thing I think everybody here has gotta

00:11:27   be an agreement with with the whole

00:11:29   every time you go from a pre-rendered

00:11:30   device to the retina device the thing

00:11:32   that juts out is the apps that haven't

00:11:35   been updated to support the retina right

00:11:38   and i also think that the progression is

00:11:42   that they look far worse on this device

00:11:46   like they did on the ipad we made them

00:11:50   look worse than on the iphone like the

00:11:52   iphone i always thought it was kind of

00:11:53   tolerable using the non-retina naps

00:11:55   until everything got recognized but on

00:11:57   the mac it really really sticks out

00:11:59   it it it's gonna be interesting it's it

00:12:02   looks like you're gonna hurt yourself by

00:12:03   touching the Jaguar of the pixel right

00:12:06   and in your experience using this laptop

00:12:08   it i mean are you seeing this a lot are

00:12:10   a lot of things not looking great and

00:12:13   yeah I will say this well we'll get back

00:12:15   to it but I did I will talk about coding

00:12:17   later but coda I did launch kota

00:12:19   anticipating it and you you so you

00:12:22   haven't seen Cody run right this way

00:12:24   hold up so far as I could tell in about

00:12:26   two minutes of poking around everything

00:12:28   looks less like it worked whatever you

00:12:30   did to anticipate it took so much work

00:12:32   right there are all sorts of thank you

00:12:36   thank you

00:12:37   it's all the guys in the office it's all

00:12:39   I just drew some things but um yeah when

00:12:42   we were developing kota I mean not to

00:12:44   jump ahead but yeah it was you know at

00:12:46   some point towards the end it's like

00:12:48   things were kind of slowing down a

00:12:49   little bit and we were just like let's

00:12:51   take a crack at this because the OS

00:12:53   obviously was was headed in that

00:12:55   direction rapidly you know it was a no

00:12:57   longer just a weird developer option

00:12:58   that you had to install xcode well you

00:13:00   still kinda had install echoecho but

00:13:01   anyways it was more easily accessible so

00:13:03   yeah it was an interesting process

00:13:05   because you know there's art side of it

00:13:07   had you know redo a bunch of assets

00:13:08   which is you know just a process but

00:13:12   then there's all sorts of stuff that's

00:13:13   drawn and code that was just crazy you

00:13:14   know progress bar that just like crazy

00:13:16   and things that but my favorite thing

00:13:18   about it I'm jumping ahead again but

00:13:19   that's okay

00:13:20   is that those we did these crazy tab

00:13:22   thumbnails you've talked about him in

00:13:24   greater we sort of visualize your tabs

00:13:26   and I'm always a little bit nervous

00:13:28   about that idea cause it's just so

00:13:29   different but you know we if it's a text

00:13:32   document will show the actual text of

00:13:34   the document and the first time we ran

00:13:36   it and retina and realize that you know

00:13:37   you can actually read the text in the

00:13:40   thumbnails and I was like oh of course

00:13:42   we knew that all along like we were

00:13:44   shooting for retina with this feature

00:13:46   and just like nervous will be like who

00:13:49   but yeah it that part really excited

00:13:52   because I'm like this is this is where

00:13:53   its valuable right this is like where

00:13:55   the detail really really shines bright

00:13:57   and so the other thing that occurs to me

00:13:59   is because I used to do back when I did

00:14:01   design work I didn't a lot of print

00:14:03   design and and I was on the school

00:14:05   newspaper and like doing the school

00:14:09   newspaper in the nineties with monitors

00:14:12   that I guess words the OS treated

00:14:15   everything is 72 pixels per inch but it

00:14:17   was it was getting a little higher than

00:14:18   that but not much

00:14:19   I don't think I think was probably need

00:14:21   like the best display was probably like

00:14:22   in the eighties or maybe 90

00:14:23   pixels-per-inch using print shop for

00:14:25   this something more elaborate you know

00:14:29   quarkxpress right okay I'm but when you

00:14:32   design stuff like when you're designing

00:14:34   a newspaper on a display that had at

00:14:37   best 90 pixels-per-inch it was a very

00:14:40   crude representation it was very clear

00:14:43   that the real thing we were making was

00:14:45   this 600 DPI output that was going to

00:14:49   come out of the big laser printer and

00:14:51   that was the real thing and in the

00:14:52   meantime though we had this wonderful

00:14:54   software that lets you use this very

00:14:55   very crude representation of it you know

00:14:58   where no font looked like the font right

00:15:01   on screen not everything is small enough

00:15:02   you just get that little like

00:15:03   checkerboard pattern right and we didn't

00:15:06   even have anti-aliasing for fonts at the

00:15:08   time while i right

00:15:09   so it was all just like a you know this

00:15:12   is what we think it's going to look like

00:15:13   but then you'd have to print it out and

00:15:15   like look at it and see what the real

00:15:17   thing is and that

00:15:18   is absolutely what like retina does this

00:15:21   is like all of a sudden it feels like

00:15:22   after twenty-some years of using a

00:15:24   Macintosh that I finally have a real

00:15:26   mcintosh awesome that's right

00:15:29   that is awesome like the fonts look

00:15:30   right we're doing a walk right so are

00:15:34   you are you a 15 inch powerbook man

00:15:36   alright man Bob macbook pro man total

00:15:39   macbook air

00:15:40   yeah the 32 inch macbook air and i love

00:15:42   the macbook air so much and it's i'm a

00:15:44   little bit nervous about in my mind

00:15:46   going backwards like I really like the

00:15:48   you know the tapered shape but I don't

00:15:51   know if I can go back to like the way it

00:15:53   kind of makes me nervous and the shape

00:15:55   makes me nervous but at the same time

00:15:56   it's like I've obviously been waiting so

00:15:58   many years for retina screen so whatever

00:16:01   right i don't want to do because I'm

00:16:03   like a big big desktop on my desk guy

00:16:06   with an 11-inch era that carry around

00:16:08   guy in a 15 inch which is what i used to

00:16:09   use for years and years and years like

00:16:11   what i really wish that I had never

00:16:13   given that up and that i'd still just

00:16:14   stuck with using up your teenager you're

00:16:16   really this is great because then this

00:16:18   new one ya feel so good night

00:16:21   yeah and so sharp whereas it still feels

00:16:23   like a brick to me because it's so much

00:16:24   heavier than the 11-inch never get back

00:16:26   from the air so how long until the

00:16:28   errors have redness screens

00:16:30   I don't know that does you know anybody

00:16:32   here work for apple yeah they wouldn't

00:16:34   say and presumably a long time now I

00:16:36   feel like that's why they refreshed

00:16:38   because it wasn't just a minor refresh

00:16:40   to the 11-inch and 13-inch MacBook Airs

00:16:42   yesterday it was like a major new

00:16:44   chipset right at all new ram i mean i

00:16:47   think that's sort of a message that you

00:16:48   can buy an air today and I'm guessing be

00:16:53   at least a year

00:16:54   I don't know yeah I would think so right

00:16:56   and everything else I mean everything's

00:16:57   it's inevitable that it's all going to

00:16:58   go that way right right a line will go

00:17:00   that way the cinema displays in the you

00:17:02   know

00:17:03   yeah right its it i don't know how long

00:17:05   it's going to take but sooner rather

00:17:06   than later

00:17:07   every single Mac will have this display

00:17:09   and you won't be able to buy one without

00:17:11   it were you surprised when i said that

00:17:12   adobe was gonna retin-a his photoshop i

00:17:16   don't know why i laughed when I said I'm

00:17:18   sorry I tried to play it totally

00:17:19   straight and I totally failed

00:17:21   um I don't know it just seems like that

00:17:23   kind of second is sometimes challenging

00:17:24   for them but maybe

00:17:26   I'm trying to be so okay what do you

00:17:30   think John you know what I it wasn't

00:17:33   hers and there was there were very few

00:17:35   third-party shoutouts in oh yeah you

00:17:38   know doesn't show that one really

00:17:40   started there were no third-party demos

00:17:42   I and it was a fun you know I i guess

00:17:45   the messages is that if anybody cares

00:17:49   about em every god damn pixel it's

00:17:54   photoshop users right we're like that

00:17:56   sort of like who uses photoshop its

00:17:58   people who sweat the pencils totally

00:18:00   right and this device is all about

00:18:02   pixels and so it it kind of makes sense

00:18:05   I guess what I would love it

00:18:07   I i hope that it whenever and i also

00:18:10   think that has something to do with the

00:18:11   target audience for the highest and

00:18:14   15-inch macbook pro which i think is

00:18:17   very designer heavy

00:18:18   mm I and photo photographer and

00:18:22   videographer Harry Wright photographers

00:18:25   and videographers who have a mac in the

00:18:27   field with them right i think you know

00:18:29   everyone I've ever seen almost always

00:18:31   has a 15-inch yeah so the examples or

00:18:34   what photoshop autocad right which is

00:18:36   interesting and then you know video

00:18:38   stuff right photography stuff yet make

00:18:40   sense

00:18:41   diablo diablo which was the top of

00:18:45   everyone's behind with the hardware

00:18:48   yeah but that's cool and all but it

00:18:50   looks amazing ah i've just been informed

00:18:53   that the bar is closed while we're

00:18:55   talking is this is this a legal policy

00:18:59   or if it's up to me if I if it's my I

00:19:03   mean it's my show I should have a say so

00:19:05   I say the bar should be opened

00:19:08   if if it was out of courtesy to me and

00:19:13   you know if it's like a legal thing no I

00:19:15   don't wanna go to jail so then g-cloud

00:19:17   haha but if it was like a courtesy to

00:19:20   the speakers they just go have drinks

00:19:22   crew it's having yeah i mean this isn't

00:19:24   water haha i should have opened the

00:19:30   sooner so did you did you did you watch

00:19:33   the keynote yeah what do you think well

00:19:36   they packed a lot of stuff anything I

00:19:38   mean it was at it I think everybody did

00:19:40   a good job

00:19:41   it flowed well it covered a lot of

00:19:43   ground it was long

00:19:44   it was interesting i don't know it was a

00:19:46   really light presentation yeah

00:19:47   in hindsight everything seemed to go off

00:19:50   super smoothly

00:19:51   they didn't you know the classic sort of

00:19:54   keynote bummers when they can get really

00:19:56   bogged down in the demos like I know

00:19:58   that that's the part we like this is

00:19:59   totally awesome and here's 98 people to

00:20:02   demo various applications and sometimes

00:20:05   i can be great and you get sometimes you

00:20:07   get good jokes from it and sometimes you

00:20:08   know but they skip that entirely right

00:20:10   so it was kind of nice it just kept

00:20:13   flowing that's tight and solid and yeah

00:20:14   I liked it and I think Tim Cook has very

00:20:18   very quickly

00:20:19   I mean him he's only publicly appeared

00:20:21   as the CEO so we'd he did the the iphone

00:20:28   4s on campus like the day before Steve

00:20:32   Jobs died it wasn't it was a CEO but

00:20:35   steve was still around right eye and I

00:20:38   think in hindsight everybody realized

00:20:39   that there was a sort of melancholy

00:20:41   nature to that event so i don't think

00:20:44   that one really counts because and I

00:20:45   think they played it perfectly but it

00:20:46   doesn't really count and then I think he

00:20:48   didn't do the book event New York City

00:20:51   because you know i was sort of small

00:20:52   potatoes and then he did the ipad thing

00:20:54   which I that is great yeah and now at

00:20:56   the WWDC I which is definitely special

00:21:01   for Apple because WWDC keynote is the

00:21:04   only public am an apple has left where

00:21:06   somebody other than press gets to come

00:21:09   nobody you don't get to line up for

00:21:11   anything anymore there's no more

00:21:12   macworld expo so is the one time where

00:21:15   you know how many people here where

00:21:17   we're at the keynote show of hands how

00:21:19   many lot of wwc attendees write a lot of

00:21:21   people

00:21:22   a lot of Bob you know people love it but

00:21:25   that's his one chance and that's the

00:21:26   chance he has to speak for I thought he

00:21:28   was incredibly comfortable

00:21:29   yeah and like the thing about it is it

00:21:32   just felt completely natural right like

00:21:34   there was no slight tinge of anything

00:21:36   weird it's just like it

00:21:37   you know it's like oh this is it so

00:21:39   clearly the right man for the job right

00:21:41   i mean very much exactly what he's doing

00:21:43   yeah that was awesome yeah and there's a

00:21:46   real passion you could just see him like

00:21:49   that and I really don't know maybe it

00:21:51   would have been the exact same movie if

00:21:53   steve jobs are still CEO but I i thought

00:21:55   that the emotional nature of yeah yeah

00:21:58   that movie at the outset which is really

00:22:00   what all he really introduced at the

00:22:02   beginning was then this thing about

00:22:03   helping you know the amazing blind guy

00:22:07   in Norway and is going on like 15 mile

00:22:10   walks in the woods around but nothing

00:22:12   but his iphone running on the girl with

00:22:15   the speech and pattern and the autistic

00:22:17   kids and I'm everybody I mean you're

00:22:19   weren't choked up in that movie and

00:22:20   you're not hooked up right yeah totally

00:22:22   but I thought that was very Tim Cook I

00:22:24   mean I think he really buys into that

00:22:26   I'm here and he seems ok yeah for sure

00:22:29   that's good how it should be ah so what

00:22:34   did anything else on the macbook pro i

00:22:40   can't i'm just going through the keynote

00:22:41   yeah right yeah nothing really i mean no

00:22:43   Elvis grumbles the future usb3 right

00:22:47   that's about it

00:22:48   yeah alright what do you think we're

00:22:50   going to have a Retina imac that's a

00:22:52   really good question i mean they they so

00:22:54   there was this thing about the pros

00:22:56   right this hoopla about the pros right

00:22:59   bro will give you should John Syracuse's

00:23:01   here are friends on Syracuse's here is

00:23:03   very say you can see the look on his

00:23:04   face haha that's here for Johnson get

00:23:07   any on

00:23:08   yeah I have never seen him so angry

00:23:15   haha yeah i mean he's like a whole rage

00:23:18   angry about his mac mac pro upgrade you

00:23:21   know quotable quotes a huge upgrade

00:23:23   Franklin John it's a whole new product

00:23:27   development

00:23:29   well I got a new badge on head for home

00:23:32   and you know what

00:23:33   yeah I guess we should we should talk so

00:23:35   that's like what was not mentioned in

00:23:37   the keynote they didn't mention the mac

00:23:38   pro upgrade which was like yeah 10 of

00:23:41   them bigger hurts really bad monkey like

00:23:45   a couple extra preparation holes in the

00:23:47   case may be and yeah that's about it

00:23:50   right

00:23:50   yeah no holes for newports though no

00:23:52   darkness of the handles all of it but

00:23:55   did you see that they're there was one

00:23:57   of those uh angry Apple customers who

00:24:00   writes to the CEO and it gets a message

00:24:03   back and publishes tim cook you know

00:24:05   back to somebody who it may have been

00:24:07   John under a different name cable has ah

00:24:10   yeah and he was a not to worry we're

00:24:13   working on

00:24:14   I don't have the quote but we're working

00:24:16   on this something for later next year is

00:24:19   so interesting for many reasons right

00:24:21   like it just to hear Apple put a

00:24:24   timeframe to anything for any reason was

00:24:26   pretty surprising right like they would

00:24:28   never rest funny this came directly

00:24:30   after doubling down on secrecy right I

00:24:32   get it and I was like that's an

00:24:34   interesting direction

00:24:36   yeah but I'm I don't know how to John

00:24:39   how did you feel about that email from

00:24:40   tim cook it may John have made John have

00:24:44   yeah no matter yeah right but I don't

00:24:46   think it necessarily means new mac pros

00:24:51   like he didn't say we have new mac pro's

00:24:53   coming through

00:24:54   he said he just something that has

00:24:55   always think it's like something that

00:24:57   solves the problem of people who want

00:24:59   new man froze so who knows what that

00:25:01   could mean do you use both optical

00:25:03   drives it

00:25:04   yes to do of my whole life I wanted to

00:25:09   meet somebody who's this girl particles

00:25:11   that

00:25:12   yeah so it all worked down this was

00:25:15   worth it

00:25:16   yeah that was unfair haha so next up on

00:25:23   the on the hit parade in quino's

00:25:25   mountain lion

00:25:26   yeah which maybe if there's anything

00:25:27   surprising with the Kenai also part of

00:25:31   the type presentation is a craig

00:25:32   federighi has suddenly gotten really

00:25:34   really good incredibly good like he went

00:25:36   from two years ago first time he was on

00:25:39   stage was the back to the mac writing

00:25:42   well held on Apple's campus where they

00:25:43   first announced well I guess lion right

00:25:47   and he infamously had like a real shaky

00:25:50   hand on the mouse and he's really kind

00:25:51   of like all-wise yeah I couldn't click

00:25:54   on what you supposed to click to because

00:25:55   he like shakes that's that would be me

00:25:57   and now he's up there and he looks aces

00:26:00   yeah you know yet if it wasn't an ad-lib

00:26:03   it was brilliant when he did the game

00:26:05   center thing is right is a game show my

00:26:08   name was like that was it here for sore

00:26:12   because great victory has a wonderful

00:26:14   wonderful head full of hair here

00:26:16   I mean it is like everybody last and he

00:26:18   just goes yeah like I made that up

00:26:20   alright was a good line I even got

00:26:23   laughs and he was but he wasn't really

00:26:25   good yeah that wasn't president that

00:26:27   wasn't that was a solid team those that

00:26:29   team of people is really good and I

00:26:31   think you know we we we miss Bertram I

00:26:34   mean everybody loved Bertram yeah I but

00:26:36   it's hard to imagine Bertrand doing a

00:26:38   half hour of the keynote like that i

00:26:40   mean he would still like half an hour

00:26:41   anyone still been talking about like

00:26:43   feature one on the list I mean for John

00:26:45   is great but he's very slow speaker

00:26:47   right right yeah it was awesome dude

00:26:50   that everybody did an incredible job

00:26:51   right

00:26:52   yeah and like i said in my little piece

00:26:56   yesterday that they're sort of i think

00:26:57   they're you know clearly becoming a

00:26:59   walking and chewing gum at the same time

00:27:00   company that they've got two major OS

00:27:02   updates in one year whereas years ago

00:27:04   they had to actually just issue a

00:27:07   statement and said you know what we

00:27:08   gotta we gotta delay the mac price the

00:27:10   Mac os10 update by seven months because

00:27:12   all the good and evil are working on the

00:27:13   iphone the only thing that makes me

00:27:14   Miley nervous about the velocity is that

00:27:17   every now and then we get that feeling

00:27:18   that it might just be going a little bit

00:27:20   too fast and I know that but at that

00:27:22   counter is what you're saying about that

00:27:23   you know i mean it was unfortunate when

00:27:24   they have

00:27:25   delay and all this other stuff but

00:27:26   sometimes it feels like the speed is

00:27:28   just like there's no looking back

00:27:30   and there's no you know EG know what I'm

00:27:32   talking about like maybe it's more the

00:27:33   developer side we encounter this more

00:27:35   but I don't know it

00:27:37   I as a user is great because they're

00:27:38   adding an incredible amount of new

00:27:39   features all the time and everybody wins

00:27:42   use the platform but sometimes it's

00:27:44   pretty rough of the developers sometimes

00:27:46   things are not quite probably where they

00:27:48   should like like in the middle years of

00:27:50   mac OS 10 like the first couple years it

00:27:52   was an annual schedule right and then it

00:27:55   was like a unofficial like about seem

00:27:57   like about two years and maybe they

00:27:59   would shoot for 18 months but it would

00:28:01   slip and in about two years was a much

00:28:03   more comfortable pace your OS updates

00:28:05   yeah hopefully they can get these yearly

00:28:08   releases and they can be just rock solid

00:28:09   and amazing

00:28:10   no I also that's my paw it wasn't much

00:28:14   new announced with mountain lion now

00:28:16   know that we didn't know from when they

00:28:20   took the curtains off it back in

00:28:21   February dictation yeah dictation is no

00:28:24   I and III did verify it is the same

00:28:27   rules as a iOS where you have to have a

00:28:31   net connection ocean it around trips the

00:28:34   same engine same everything right

00:28:35   exactly the same

00:28:36   I'm yeah but little things but nothing

00:28:39   that we didn't really know makes sense

00:28:41   right

00:28:42   yeah and then ios6 yeah so what you

00:28:45   think of iOS 6 this I mean there's a lot

00:28:49   of really cool stuff

00:28:50   let's talk about well the two things

00:28:51   that really excited me were actually the

00:28:53   thing that excites me almost more than

00:28:55   anything else is passbook for some

00:28:56   reason I don't know why I think I've

00:28:59   always had this dream of not having my

00:29:01   wallet and this is just very slightly

00:29:03   closer to that and and with when I saw

00:29:06   that I immediately said to myself you

00:29:09   know when that iphone5 comes out and

00:29:11   it's got the NFC and it's like you know

00:29:13   take replaces my debit card and replace

00:29:15   my credit card it is my dream of course

00:29:17   but like it seemed like this is the

00:29:20   halfway point to that and so I'm really

00:29:22   hoping that's the in-game because i

00:29:24   don't want to have a wallet i just want

00:29:26   to have my phone I want everything to be

00:29:27   on there now getting that to work with

00:29:29   every merchant in the universe and these

00:29:31   terrible somebody I think it's steve has

00:29:34   one of those

00:29:35   wells fargo debit card that has like

00:29:36   it's called payWave or something where

00:29:38   you're like certain merchants have this

00:29:40   little logo and you're supposed to just

00:29:41   be able to slap your car there and so

00:29:42   just for his own cell phone music he

00:29:44   tries it every time it's never worked

00:29:46   once and every time the people the

00:29:48   counter like I don't know what that's

00:29:49   for

00:29:50   you know you're like oh yeah that's

00:29:51   never worked or whatever so if their

00:29:54   faith that's that's the one thing that

00:29:55   makes me nervous about my dreams like

00:29:57   it's one thing to make the technology

00:29:58   and have a great UI and put it in the

00:30:01   hardware but getting it in the chops

00:30:03   I don't know that seems like an uphill

00:30:04   battle yet calling a halfway step is it

00:30:07   i think exactly right and i think a lot

00:30:08   of the problems that Apple the biggest

00:30:11   problems apple is facing are these

00:30:14   things that require multiple very

00:30:17   different things to be alignment so

00:30:19   retina display max is a perfect example

00:30:22   and where you've got to solve the

00:30:26   technology problem making a display that

00:30:28   big with all those pixels and have it be

00:30:30   good so that's a just a pure hardware

00:30:32   engineering things you've got to have

00:30:33   the OS ready to support it and then

00:30:36   you've got to have all the designers

00:30:38   actually go and make all of that artwork

00:30:41   every single piece of artwork in the

00:30:42   entire OS again again yeah and it's not

00:30:47   just like double the work is harder

00:30:48   because it's going to be four times

00:30:50   bigger so it's gotta look better

00:30:52   did you find it doesn't take a lot

00:30:54   longer to make retina caliber you I

00:30:56   graphics um you know with our workflow

00:31:00   you know and and how just using shape

00:31:02   layers in photoshop and kind of being

00:31:04   vector-based behind-the-scenes anyways

00:31:07   it's not that much harder for us there

00:31:10   was some parts of our process were

00:31:11   harder like the web pages were a little

00:31:13   bit harder because it's just a little

00:31:15   not something we're using up the Dakota

00:31:17   and co2 webpages are totally written

00:31:19   right because we figured people will be

00:31:20   looking at these on the ipad and they

00:31:22   look awesome but that was just slightly

00:31:24   weird because we weren't used to it but

00:31:25   you know we did it

00:31:26   everybody worked hard never worked hard

00:31:28   and can you work hard and everybody

00:31:29   worked hard it's just doable you just

00:31:31   crank through it but what the heck are

00:31:33   you talking about

00:31:33   ok I was six yeah and the wallet yeah be

00:31:36   a pass/pass book and a half way point I

00:31:39   yes so I think the halfway point is to

00:31:41   get the have the app maybe it's more

00:31:44   than halfway but and your partner's yeah

00:31:46   right but right now ever

00:31:48   everything seems to be scanner base your

00:31:50   QR codes are code and it's all you wave

00:31:53   it you gotta go if you hit the baseball

00:31:55   ticket you gotta press all getting

00:31:57   scammed by like a red red infrared laser

00:32:01   thing i also have a related story that

00:32:03   makes me nervous about that future is

00:32:04   because i want alaska airlines has an

00:32:06   app that lets you get your boarding pass

00:32:08   on your phone which sounded really cool

00:32:09   to me because I hate printing boarding

00:32:11   passes and i always forget I could do it

00:32:12   in the car and so we're on the way to

00:32:14   the airport and I got the boarding

00:32:16   passes all ready to go and my wife and

00:32:18   son and I wade through the security line

00:32:20   we get to the front and i'm sure they

00:32:21   got a phone and he just kind of uh yeah

00:32:23   we don't have that scanner like we just

00:32:26   don't have that and I'm cool but

00:32:28   supposed to do know something like you

00:32:30   need to go print a boarding pass and I

00:32:32   think so we literally had to leave print

00:32:34   boarding passes wait for the entire

00:32:36   security line again and the down and

00:32:38   this gets to my point about you know the

00:32:40   implementation being the challenge

00:32:41   because if you just having that one

00:32:43   failure i knew i would never try it

00:32:45   again right because if there's a

00:32:47   one-percent chance that i'm going to get

00:32:48   to the end of that long line and it's

00:32:50   not gonna work i'm not gonna do I'm

00:32:52   gonna use the thing I'm most familiar

00:32:53   with so that part makes me nervous as

00:32:55   well and I thought Scott Forstall was

00:32:57   pretty it open and honest about one of

00:32:59   the downsides of the whole way it is now

00:33:01   with a bunch of separate apps which is

00:33:02   that if it's not on your first or second

00:33:04   iphone screen I mean write it right kind

00:33:07   of lost and it's like it's the worst

00:33:09   times you've got all these people behind

00:33:11   you and everybody wants to get on a

00:33:13   plane and you're the guy said are

00:33:14   exactly opening up your folders and

00:33:17   together

00:33:18   uh-huh I what I did as a side note

00:33:21   though send a sternly worded letter and

00:33:23   got fifty dollar credit the left

00:33:25   Caroline so it's totally worth it

00:33:26   yeah i do it again fifty bucks a pop but

00:33:30   i do that and we've never even used the

00:33:31   thing yet but i do think that everybody

00:33:34   is already thinking well this is gonna

00:33:35   work even better once the NFC stuff is

00:33:38   hooked up and you just wave the phone

00:33:39   and because the other part of it with

00:33:41   the NFC stop is it's not enough to just

00:33:43   have it in the phone like I'm sure

00:33:45   anybody from google can tell you that

00:33:47   having a phone doesn't mean you get to

00:33:48   use it right right i right

00:33:51   how's that stuff gone for them have you

00:33:53   ever tried it I well I wallet but now I

00:33:56   realize that although I did see it pits

00:33:57   today that peach takes the google wallet

00:34:00   huh

00:34:00   but I don't know how it works but with

00:34:02   the other happens you've got to have

00:34:03   partners retail partners who are going

00:34:05   to do the handshake and have the

00:34:07   hardware there so that the your phone

00:34:09   that can do it right there's somebody

00:34:11   there to listen right into it

00:34:13   I the other thing that stuck out to me

00:34:16   was I don't know why because it's just

00:34:18   something I I've always been unsure

00:34:20   whether Apple would do is add

00:34:22   pull-to-refresh to mail yeah what did

00:34:24   you think about that you have you use it

00:34:26   you have a you have you put the bait on

00:34:28   the animation looks crazy but I haven't

00:34:30   seen it yet mom so I was playing with it

00:34:33   over somebody had it on the phone and I

00:34:36   got to play with it and there it is

00:34:37   different than everybody else's because

00:34:39   there's you have to pull further ok and

00:34:43   once you pull that far the Refresh

00:34:46   happens you know it doesn't and tobago

00:34:48   it doesn't activate on letting go

00:34:50   it activates on once you will do a

00:34:52   certain distance which doesn't feel

00:34:55   right now that doesn't seem like the

00:34:57   action is that when we're talking about

00:34:58   early like like the shotgun reloading

00:35:00   you gotta have that double you know

00:35:03   yeah it doesn't seem like triggering

00:35:04   something at the end of the gesture

00:35:06   really feels natural right yeah so we

00:35:08   had a little tableside discussion at

00:35:11   WWDC and and opinion seemed very split

00:35:14   on why that is very one is that it's

00:35:18   reading the letter of Twitter's

00:35:21   pull-to-refresh patent owner

00:35:23   so interesting and that they determined

00:35:25   that if they do it not on letdown but on

00:35:28   just pull that it's not in violation of

00:35:31   the patent that seems silly to me but

00:35:33   all software patent easily to me didn't

00:35:35   they say they weren't going to do

00:35:36   anything negative with those patents or

00:35:37   whatever yeah but I don't think apples

00:35:39   lawyers

00:35:40   yeah you know they're not you know if

00:35:42   you want to have illegal and probably

00:35:43   Twitter guys are never gonna do anything

00:35:45   and apples always be okay well fine know

00:35:48   that if they wrote a blog post cool was

00:35:50   only ur so is it patent sir convention

00:35:53   which really stinks if it I I don't

00:35:56   think so

00:35:56   or is it a lack of humility on the part

00:36:00   of disarmament Apple II hope who you

00:36:03   said yeah we can't do exactly what

00:36:05   Lauren Brickner invented Brett sweetie

00:36:08   it's gotta be we got it we're gonna

00:36:10   brush it lightly different right now

00:36:12   it's good you got it's ours right

00:36:14   I don't know now it don't have they

00:36:17   shown that humility before I mean is

00:36:19   there any track record to slight tweaks

00:36:21   well I they've stolen something while

00:36:25   ripped off was a better copied something

00:36:27   like you know the coded tabs i think

00:36:30   they took without changing

00:36:31   oh the selection state right and there

00:36:34   was a slight change

00:36:35   I don't think its institutional I do

00:36:37   think though that a personal level it

00:36:39   could be that somebody on the male team

00:36:41   yeah did not want think you're an exact

00:36:43   duplication of it that's a pretty solid

00:36:45   theory

00:36:46   yeah yeah but even so even though it's

00:36:48   not i don't think it's a ideal

00:36:50   pull-to-refresh I'm so glad that it's

00:36:52   there because i have pulled a refreshing

00:36:54   mail on my iPhone so many times all i

00:36:58   got one today

00:36:58   yeah maybe they login event like

00:37:02   diagnostic thing and you have somebody

00:37:05   did that and they're like shit we got it

00:37:06   I wonder maybe a hundred thousand today

00:37:08   and one of them even ah the other

00:37:11   feature the one other feature from iOS

00:37:13   it well that we could talk about maps

00:37:15   oh yeah i mean is that I i tried the 3d

00:37:17   it was incredible

00:37:18   like it looked amazing on the ipad

00:37:20   Portland wasn't mapped for some reason

00:37:22   so super bummed out because i couldn't

00:37:23   3d around Portland but they'll get there

00:37:25   right now there's been some careful

00:37:26   about the

00:37:27   the bikes and the walking being gone

00:37:30   right and transit and all that stuff and

00:37:33   there's like a bee petition of course

00:37:35   already like because those are always

00:37:37   incredibly effective and it's you know

00:37:39   apple bring back transit matlab think

00:37:41   this is kind of trend that I've noticed

00:37:43   lately where people just assume it's

00:37:45   something is missing or broken but it's

00:37:48   intentional malice every time like it's

00:37:51   a really fascinating thing to witness I

00:37:52   mean we see it too it's like sometimes

00:37:54   things are just broken or missing you

00:37:57   know it's not always like a conspiracy

00:37:58   but what exactly does the petition want

00:38:01   Apple to do go back to google and single

00:38:04   now let us switch to google maps when

00:38:06   you're not walking right direction the

00:38:07   assumption is that they literally

00:38:09   intentionally removed it because they

00:38:10   didn't think people wanted it anymore

00:38:12   which is totally false right i mean it's

00:38:14   just a matter of their building their

00:38:15   own mapping solution from scratch they

00:38:17   haven't presumably gotten to it yet

00:38:19   that's my assumption it is the maps are

00:38:21   beautiful yeah they do look far better

00:38:23   and the 3d stuff seems and I think it

00:38:25   seems genuinely useful

00:38:27   yeah but I don't have much to say about

00:38:30   that i mean it's sort of like one of

00:38:31   those things where it's been rumored for

00:38:33   so long and it came out exactly as we

00:38:35   thought it would be okay

00:38:37   yeah the turn-by-turn directions is that

00:38:39   something you use every when you driver

00:38:41   now I I don't have never used

00:38:43   turn-by-turn directions when i drive

00:38:44   because i have an unerring sense of

00:38:46   direction that I played a lot of Zelda

00:38:49   as a kid so I can find my way around

00:38:51   pretty well yea is my wife out there is

00:38:53   my wife listening she's probably rolling

00:38:55   I assume you're being sarcastic

00:38:57   yeah I have a terrible sense of like I

00:38:59   just the other day I we were we were

00:39:02   driving to her family it's about 50

00:39:06   miles outside the city and I pulled off

00:39:08   her halfway to get gas and then we came

00:39:11   back out of the gas station and I got on

00:39:12   this google expressway heading east back

00:39:15   to Philadelphia and I happen to be an

00:39:18   exit that's like nine miles from the

00:39:21   next exit

00:39:22   yes I I probably do need so maybe you

00:39:25   should use a script by turn directions

00:39:26   okay I but it seems pretty good i've

00:39:30   heard I don't know if anybody can drive

00:39:31   heard a rumor that it's like license

00:39:33   from tomtom yeah somebody that's in the

00:39:36   like little settings general

00:39:37   whatever sort of in the same way that

00:39:39   the dictation is licensed around the

00:39:41   Dragon Dictate people

00:39:42   yep engine I think it's kind of like a

00:39:45   sign of Apple like being willing to say

00:39:47   well we just want the best thing we

00:39:49   don't have to do it all ourselves and

00:39:51   bring the pieces together right yeah but

00:39:52   that's weird because in the past they

00:39:54   were generally acquire those companies

00:39:55   right requires companies it's weird to

00:39:57   see them give more credit right and sort

00:39:59   of have working relationship since yeah

00:40:00   I'm really surprised that they haven't

00:40:02   acquired dragon just because it seems

00:40:04   like whatever dragons were thought to be

00:40:05   able to just write it totally right it

00:40:08   can't be that big huh

00:40:10   and in the last I OS six feature that

00:40:12   really caught my eye was the new stuff

00:40:14   in Serie and bring it to the ipad you're

00:40:19   a sports fan

00:40:20   are you excited about the sports date I

00:40:22   I really was i hope it works out how

00:40:24   many field goals the myths may be united

00:40:27   world bowl I because I hope really know

00:40:32   much about sports

00:40:33   yeah but that it looks cool yeah I am I

00:40:36   think and I think that the the way that

00:40:38   they're doing it to me is clearly a

00:40:41   competitive against Google m and so how

00:40:46   how would you go about replacing google

00:40:48   i doing your own search engine

00:40:50   well I don't think Apple it would ever

00:40:51   ever just do a google search engine

00:40:53   right and to be better than google

00:40:55   you've got to be good at like a hundred

00:40:57   thousand different things that people

00:40:59   search for ya so they're not so if you

00:41:02   just want to do a web search you still

00:41:04   go to Google which is the best right

00:41:06   what they're doing is biting off like

00:41:08   this long tail

00:41:10   we're like 999 thousands of those things

00:41:13   they don't have to worry about and

00:41:14   everybody just do weather sports and

00:41:17   restaurants yeah you know it's like

00:41:18   things people search for on their phone

00:41:20   all the time and all of a sudden with

00:41:22   like just five or six thing yep it's an

00:41:24   awful lot of the reason that people use

00:41:29   google under fire for sure right the

00:41:31   movies the movies in the restaurants

00:41:33   thing alone has got to be like and more

00:41:35   partnerships that right because the

00:41:36   restaurant stuff came from yelp i

00:41:38   thinkyeah the restaurant stuff comes

00:41:39   from yelp and the sports stuff comes

00:41:41   from yahoo right and that it's just all

00:41:43   I saw was a little why in the corner is

00:41:45   amazing and I just realized that as i

00:41:47   like a little like side

00:41:49   dang it just shows how low Yahoo's

00:41:51   fallen in the tech world where we're

00:41:54   yahoo had some technology right in the

00:41:57   Big Apple Keynote ready never even got a

00:42:00   mentor and he meant it

00:42:02   yeah all they got was a little tiny why

00:42:05   an exclamation mark in a corner of a

00:42:08   screenshot maybe if you tap it takes you

00:42:10   to the yahoo i'm sure does but no you

00:42:13   don't get your horoscope

00:42:15   yeah and it does seem I always call it

00:42:18   marketing spite and maybe that's unfair

00:42:21   but this the way that Apple is doling

00:42:23   out which features go to which devices

00:42:26   yeah and it has gotten very complicated

00:42:29   it was like one of the last things I

00:42:30   link to before coming here to do the

00:42:31   show was a checkmark matrix at mac OS

00:42:35   right

00:42:35   macrumors saying here's all these new

00:42:37   features in iOS here's which devices get

00:42:40   them and I didn't I haven't seen that

00:42:42   yet but didn't make sense some you know

00:42:44   it doesn't make sense so for example the

00:42:46   3gs games nothing except that it gets to

00:42:50   run iOS 6 but it doesn't even get VIP

00:42:54   email list what right so the feature is

00:42:57   called VIP email you can pick some I

00:43:00   cable sasser I say you're a VIP then I

00:43:02   go with you should do this right Hans I

00:43:04   think everybody should add cable to

00:43:05   their vid2c really appreciate that i

00:43:07   make me feel very special because you're

00:43:10   much like me with email where if you get

00:43:11   one ever responds it's actually very

00:43:14   good

00:43:15   yeah if you get a response right I'm but

00:43:20   at it why Williams they'd bring that I

00:43:22   don't know it certainly isn't because

00:43:24   the thing is a glassed enough it could

00:43:26   be like a hardware chip to keep that

00:43:27   list and it's right so like a lack of

00:43:31   flyover mode and maps make it right

00:43:33   alright perfect understand what you need

00:43:35   like a real fancy to a lot of Oregon's

00:43:37   yeah

00:43:38   VIP no boy it seems really spicy so we

00:43:41   know that they've done this before I

00:43:43   mean they've held back features to

00:43:44   encourage adoption of new devices right

00:43:47   so that's right nice is right it's yeah

00:43:49   I call it marketing spite but maybe

00:43:51   spite is too strong a word it's just

00:43:54   you know how to make a hundred billion

00:43:56   dollars okay all right

00:43:58   hey right i think that's it for the Kino

00:44:03   news i want to talk to you

00:44:05   yeah about koda and diet koda and

00:44:07   everything else shanik is doing but in

00:44:09   the meantime I want to take a timeout

00:44:11   here and I want to thank our friends at

00:44:14   media temple mediatemple you guys are

00:44:17   drinking on their dime

00:44:19   [Applause]

00:44:21   they've got some really cool

00:44:26   announcements they're doing some great

00:44:28   stuff with my friends and mule radio

00:44:30   syndicate they have a contest of all

00:44:31   sorts of stuff but i'll let i will let

00:44:34   Russ reader explain it to you

00:44:36   alright thanks John great job guys

00:44:39   it's been great to sit back and listen

00:44:41   also talked to a lot of media temple

00:44:43   customers today so thank you very much

00:44:45   meal radio thank you and who we have

00:44:49   heard people to put up their hands for

00:44:51   new iphone years ago and a new appletv

00:44:55   who is going to get the retina and we're

00:44:59   gonna get the macbook right now you know

00:45:00   good Chuck hands out there

00:45:02   yeah alright so mediatemple lost maybe

00:45:04   yeah right who wants one

00:45:06   how about not going to who would you

00:45:07   like one alright so mediatemple know

00:45:10   John doesn't do anything kind of halfway

00:45:11   so what media temple is going to do is

00:45:14   if you go to the blog tomorrow or follow

00:45:16   us on twitter

00:45:18   we're gonna give away a macbook pro

00:45:20   retina tomorrow if you use Gruber as the

00:45:23   code so definitely follow us and a lot

00:45:26   of people last one we're talking to some

00:45:28   customers out there they asked will hear

00:45:31   us why are you why are you why are you

00:45:34   are you going to sponsor something here

00:45:36   at the WWDC well this is a great place

00:45:39   for for media temple to get your at apps

00:45:43   and websites hosted especially as you go

00:45:46   more towards that the high bred or even

00:45:49   a webapp kind of approach

00:45:51   alright we got about 2 million websites

00:45:52   out there a lot of you guys already

00:45:54   customers and we just really appreciate

00:45:56   the designer and developer community

00:45:59   that's where we started that's where we

00:46:00   are we're a bunch of Engineers ourselves

00:46:02   and just want to thank everyone out

00:46:04   there so a John thank you very much

00:46:06   and so just once again to get entered in

00:46:08   a contest the code is groover gruv ER

00:46:12   and I use that as a promo code on every

00:46:14   website

00:46:14   all right it doesn't work very often and

00:46:16   tomorrow you go to the media temple blog

00:46:18   and what do you do so go to the media

00:46:22   temple we're gonna have all the

00:46:23   information out there and if you you can

00:46:26   either come on and it will be a

00:46:27   twenty-five percent discount to get

00:46:29   media temple services or you could just

00:46:31   put in grouper and they'll be a link

00:46:34   there to actually to try to get a media

00:46:37   temple I macbook pro retina without even

00:46:41   buying anything so on on we will have

00:46:43   all you go right to media temple and use

00:46:46   the code grouper tomorrow to buy your

00:46:48   next host service or if you want details

00:46:52   on how to get the macbook pro retina

00:46:55   without having to buy media temple

00:46:58   service you can follow us on the to

00:47:00   check out our blog tomorrow

00:47:02   nice try and those of you listening at

00:47:04   home who are not here in the event this

00:47:05   is good for you to this is not just for

00:47:07   attendees of the event but shame on you

00:47:09   for not being here

00:47:10   haha alright thanks guys thank you thank

00:47:14   you very much thank you so much

00:47:19   cool very cool twenty-five percent

00:47:23   discount and a chance to win and was

00:47:26   like an old-time radio commercial break

00:47:28   yeah i really liked it

00:47:30   I so what at the outset of the show you

00:47:36   you mentioned that you made a deliberate

00:47:39   effort years ago to go pro focus

00:47:42   yeah and and I thought that was

00:47:44   interesting you're saying that the it

00:47:45   was a strategic idea that the way you

00:47:48   avoid getting steamrolled by apple

00:47:51   yes to stay out of the consumer space

00:47:53   that's right and that was I mean it was

00:47:55   it wasn't exactly is just a very organic

00:47:57   decision because we knew that you know

00:48:00   Apple was was exploding their software

00:48:03   efforts and you know they made some

00:48:05   software before but things like I life

00:48:07   and all of these apps were coming out of

00:48:08   nowhere at a rapid pace so yeah we it

00:48:11   was kind of like a conscious

00:48:13   the decision was we we have to try to do

00:48:16   things that are apps that are bigger

00:48:17   apps that are a more complex and apps

00:48:20   that are more Pro users so and that's

00:48:23   sort of you know transmit we push more

00:48:25   in that direction and dakota was really

00:48:26   the first of and you know that was that

00:48:29   was sort of the culmination of that plan

00:48:31   was this is a big honkin app it you know

00:48:34   and I thought of you and we covered this

00:48:37   five years ago but the original name of

00:48:39   transmitted was Tranzit transit which

00:48:42   makes so much more sense with the truck

00:48:44   right

00:48:45   still I'm still kind of mad about that

00:48:47   and it was like a legal dispute over

00:48:50   somebody else who claim your own the

00:48:51   trademark so you added the end which is

00:48:53   pretty pretty subtle just added them

00:48:56   right but then I thought of you and the

00:48:58   keynote yesterday because apple had a

00:49:00   slide up when they were talking about

00:49:01   their new maps and the fact that you

00:49:03   don't get turn-by-turn directions or

00:49:06   they said Tranzit apps great and I

00:49:10   thought you were part of my brain is

00:49:11   what right I'll God not that one to keep

00:49:14   it up

00:49:15   what next i wiII every year we joke that

00:49:17   the big new feature mac OS is a built-in

00:49:20   HTML development or whatever you know I

00:49:23   mean I realize the odds are pretty slim

00:49:25   at this point but yeah ever since the

00:49:27   infamous uh itunes keno and we knew that

00:49:30   was coming right so while i was

00:49:32   surprised that it was still just like

00:49:33   such a classic apple like I could I can

00:49:36   still hear it in my mind like I remember

00:49:38   the infamous like and we have this great

00:49:42   idea where what if you could visualize

00:49:44   music no one's ever done this before

00:49:47   looking for like mom it's just the

00:49:50   visualizer yeah so anyways um yeah

00:49:53   transit production it is true that like

00:49:56   I look at the panic suite of software

00:49:59   the way you guys offer and it's like I

00:50:02   think of when I think of a panic i

00:50:04   really i think of the interfaces first

00:50:06   and I don't think that's a surprise i

00:50:08   think I mean everybody agree that I mean

00:50:10   that's what the whole point that the

00:50:11   whole point is what if we didn't and put

00:50:14   insane attention on sure interface like

00:50:16   just over-the-top and even more than

00:50:18   apple shirt like this incredible

00:50:20   attention to these utterly minor details

00:50:22   and in a very friendly way I think

00:50:25   your software is is almost a reflection

00:50:28   of your personality it's like a friendly

00:50:30   it's nice it laughs out of it before but

00:50:36   it is like seriously nerdy stuff right

00:50:39   like is that you know you don't think

00:50:41   about that it's just very very consumer

00:50:43   e him look and style over so I'm it's

00:50:47   increasingly right specific yeah and

00:50:51   it's interesting and I like I said

00:50:53   earlier I kind of Miss the consumer

00:50:55   level stuff i kinda I mean it'd be nice

00:50:57   to make something that my parents can

00:51:00   use on their iphones or you know that my

00:51:02   wife would use on her is not they're not

00:51:04   developing websites on their iPad or

00:51:06   whatever you know so I it's it's it's

00:51:08   super rewarding because it's nice to its

00:51:11   it's a really fun process to have this

00:51:13   really complicated thing you want to

00:51:14   make but then try to wrap it around this

00:51:17   friendly

00:51:18   I mean it's like one of the hardest

00:51:19   things it's very difficult and it takes

00:51:21   a lot of work and it's not easy but when

00:51:23   you're done

00:51:24   I mean you know it feels great so I like

00:51:26   that process but yeah it'd be nice to

00:51:29   balance it out a little bit more be nice

00:51:30   to go back and and with diet Kota you

00:51:34   you really die code is our iPad yeah

00:51:37   well established this okay all right my

00:51:39   theory is that oh maybe you guys were on

00:51:42   the fence about whether you should do

00:51:43   kota for the ipad but then somebody came

00:51:46   up with the name

00:51:47   ahahahha and you knew you had to do it

00:51:50   I'm feel the funny thing is we can't

00:51:51   even remember who coined that in the

00:51:53   office but the the wii it's funny the

00:51:56   thing about diet cola was people kept

00:51:59   asking us for and if you people ask us

00:52:03   for apps all the time right you should

00:52:04   make an email client you should make it

00:52:06   whatever but when it came to I want to

00:52:09   do hmm on my iPad everybody said the

00:52:11   exact same thing I want to make quick

00:52:14   fixes to websites on my iPad verbatim

00:52:18   that is the quote that everybody

00:52:19   independently use and that is why the

00:52:21   website says make quick fixes to her

00:52:24   website on your iPad it's like people

00:52:25   came up with this marketing slogan for

00:52:27   us and it was that definitely cemented

00:52:30   it right it's like people will

00:52:31   apparently want to do this

00:52:33   yeah well and that's interest and I

00:52:34   think it goes back to the

00:52:36   original iPad introduction event where

00:52:39   steve jobs even said you know here's

00:52:42   your macbook here's your phone is there

00:52:45   room in the middle

00:52:46   yes we think so but we're not even sure

00:52:48   what that is yeah I kept up on my

00:52:51   desktop for the past two and a half

00:52:53   years I kept a bookmark to an article

00:52:54   that was a room overview of the original

00:52:56   iPad and the guy was really down on it

00:52:59   and I specifically remember him saying

00:53:00   is anybody ever gonna make a webpage on

00:53:03   ipad like that

00:53:04   hey so I kept it on my desktop just like

00:53:07   my own little motivator don't even know

00:53:08   who this guy hits but maybe I should

00:53:10   send him an email down just be like

00:53:11   right after you

00:53:13   no no we we did it no give me the URL

00:53:16   and I'll clam chowder

00:53:17   huh now we're talking sponsored claim

00:53:20   shattered right here that how much for a

00:53:22   claim chowder

00:53:23   yeah I don't know you're very good at it

00:53:25   but I did notice something here

00:53:28   something i knows what i was looking at

00:53:29   your website and in the title tag maybe

00:53:31   you can fix it with code is on right now

00:53:33   in the title tag yeah at panic com it

00:53:38   says panic haha shockingly good mac

00:53:42   software

00:53:43   yeah that that I think it's a bug right

00:53:45   weekend but it does but your price still

00:53:48   primarily yeah overall for sure a mac

00:53:51   software come right it's true i have

00:53:55   very little is a guy I immediately want

00:53:57   to leave stage and fix that right so i

00:53:59   kinda wish you hadn't brought it up

00:54:01   right now would you change it to him

00:54:02   never can you fix them are you out there

00:54:04   yeah which it i mean mean that's a

00:54:06   really good question i mean the the

00:54:08   probably just mac and iOS offer but is

00:54:10   there something better

00:54:11   probably just software maybe just

00:54:12   software shandra software yeah dammit i

00:54:17   really want to fix that now I and i

00:54:19   think i think that there's a while

00:54:21   hey we're walking and chewing gum angle

00:54:23   with you guys now to you guys have

00:54:25   gotten bigger

00:54:26   sure I mean you guys have a bunch of

00:54:28   designers or at least you would have a

00:54:30   couple yeah I'm chiaro yeah

00:54:32   yeah so you used to design everything

00:54:34   and now you've got other people you've

00:54:36   got T my god yes well and and and so

00:54:39   this process has been strangely

00:54:41   stressful for me like that i don't i'm

00:54:43   not a dude that gets super stressed out

00:54:45   easily but like with trying to work on

00:54:48   Kota to and I could at the same time

00:54:50   shooting for a simultaneous ship date it

00:54:52   was really challenging and I mean

00:54:56   developing them testing them and what

00:54:58   really threw me for a loop was just the

00:54:59   uncertainty of Apple I mean the first

00:55:02   time we've really been beholden to the

00:55:03   review process in a significant way

00:55:06   times to you know and and I don't know

00:55:09   if you saw in our blog we timed out this

00:55:11   hawaii trip right so that we could you

00:55:13   know I I promise everybody that we go to

00:55:15   Hawaii when we finish these apps and

00:55:16   somehow i was a man of my word and we

00:55:19   went to Hawaii while the app store in

00:55:20   review but I did not

00:55:22   relax also contribute in any way shape

00:55:25   or form because stuff just kept coming

00:55:27   out like I i mentioned this but like I

00:55:30   don't know i'm sitting on the beach i

00:55:31   get my we've been rejected again email

00:55:34   because we showed that on the first

00:55:35   launch screen we ask you if you want to

00:55:37   turn on iCloud or not and we show the

00:55:39   iCloud logo and what that's a trademarks

00:55:42   apple logo and so I actually fix that

00:55:44   one myself with by opening up the nib

00:55:46   and like just deleting the initiatives

00:55:49   and I checked in and the build server

00:55:51   built a new one and I actually literally

00:55:53   submitted it from the airport boarding

00:55:56   the flight and it was like a scene from

00:55:57   the world's shittiest action movie

00:55:59   because I'm like I have like four

00:56:01   minutes to go and it's like uploading

00:56:03   API usage and I gotta come on you know

00:56:07   and I like you know last call for

00:56:08   whatever it was so bad but um yea it

00:56:13   that really threw us for a loop if there

00:56:15   are there a lot of first with this

00:56:16   process for us and so that was a

00:56:19   definite challenge but you know i'm

00:56:21   super excited about it and everybody is

00:56:23   so smart and work so hard and cares so

00:56:25   much about the finished product and i'm

00:56:27   super lucky for that was it the plan all

00:56:30   along to have coded to and diet kota

00:56:33   come out at the same time always always

00:56:36   always when when did kota one ship like

00:56:39   it was kinda was like 2007

00:56:42   seriously 2007 and the hard thing about

00:56:45   it was actually let me tell you a story

00:56:46   of another source of stress but i'll set

00:56:48   the scene for you

00:56:49   Portland has a lot of food carts all

00:56:50   around the town down the street from my

00:56:53   dad's house is a food cart that serves I

00:56:56   think it's a filipino food this is

00:56:58   seriously going somewhere relevant um my

00:57:00   dad you know walking around the

00:57:02   neighborhood and talk to all the people

00:57:03   in the neighborhood and you went to the

00:57:04   food cart and the guy was like a Steve

00:57:07   what's up and you know they were talking

00:57:08   about the neighborhood and the guys like

00:57:10   oh hey uh my friend a question for you

00:57:14   my dad's like what is it is like John

00:57:16   wins co2 coming out i wanted to have

00:57:18   this like are you kidding me

00:57:20   like what I that happened a lot and I'm

00:57:25   glad to have that problem i'm really

00:57:26   glad people are excited about our

00:57:28   products but it was clear to me that we

00:57:30   took too long and I think what people

00:57:32   don't understand is that we were working

00:57:35   on one thing and then working on another

00:57:36   thing and they expect from a major

00:57:38   company not a major company from any

00:57:40   company you know simultaneous

00:57:41   development and so people working on

00:57:43   transmit people working at codon that

00:57:45   wasn't the case for us like we finished

00:57:47   koda and we did a bunch of updates and

00:57:48   we got to 1.7 and we felt good about it

00:57:51   and then ok now let's work on transmit

00:57:52   for and that took about a year and a

00:57:54   half and in people for us it was a

00:57:56   couple years of development for

00:57:58   everybody who use the app it was four

00:57:59   years you know right so it it was

00:58:02   intense and people were here

00:58:04   look up sheet but they're not all went

00:58:06   away once we ship so that's good

00:58:07   well and that the thing that I think is

00:58:09   very interesting about and you guys are

00:58:11   sort of Trailblazers here it is i got

00:58:14   known territory is me and you don't

00:58:16   really have to take a look at your books

00:58:19   to know that if your version was in 2007

00:58:22   and version 2 isn't 2012 right that

00:58:26   upgrade revenue is an important part of

00:58:30   the business of xi'an developer that you

00:58:32   you know people who bought the app in

00:58:36   2007 and you put all this effort into it

00:58:38   you need upgrade revenue froze happy

00:58:40   existing users and that's how companies

00:58:43   like Panik who was you know what 15

00:58:45   years in business now something close to

00:58:47   that was you know a way that you

00:58:49   sustained as you get happy users and

00:58:51   especially with the protools type there

00:58:54   and you sell upgrades and now you're

00:58:57   doing it in an app store right doesn't

00:59:00   support paid upgrades right that was a

00:59:03   challenge so you what was the solution

00:59:06   that you guys came up with and so we you

00:59:08   know we did a three-pronged thing so the

00:59:10   first day we just decided to be fifty

00:59:11   percent off for everybody right and that

00:59:13   was huge for us

00:59:14   I'm in in two ways I mean we sold a lot

00:59:17   the dark side I I joke that was six

00:59:20   months of sales compressed into a single

00:59:22   day it was also six months of

00:59:23   tech-support compressed it to thank all

00:59:25   day and so those guys in not having a

00:59:27   great time right now but I'm then we

00:59:29   sort of decided we'll just the only

00:59:32   thing we can do is lower the price of

00:59:33   the app for everyone for a period of

00:59:36   time so our solution to that was upgrade

00:59:38   pricing for everyone for an

00:59:40   indeterminate period of time I I

00:59:41   honestly don't know how long that's

00:59:42   gonna last people vast I have no idea

00:59:44   like a month two months I don't know but

00:59:46   it's the only thing that I could think

00:59:47   of

00:59:48   right like what else are we gonna do I

00:59:50   there's the upgrades don't exist anymore

00:59:52   does apple apple doesn't get upgrade

00:59:54   revenue from anything anymore right

00:59:55   it's full price every time well I Apple

00:59:57   gets their upgrade revenue when you buy

00:59:59   and

00:59:59   and

01:00:00   to mac right new iphone i mean that's

01:00:02   and you know they cheat i mean is you

01:00:04   know it's a good business model for them

01:00:06   right but everything hinges on the fact

01:00:08   that all of their software they don't

01:00:10   need to charge updates for because

01:00:11   you're running in on a

01:00:12   two-thousand-dollar or a thousand-dollar

01:00:14   eight-hundred-dollar phone that you've

01:00:15   already paid for and we've always just

01:00:17   assumed that the only reason they don't

01:00:18   offer upgrades is because they don't

01:00:20   need them right so why would they

01:00:22   but yeah it's a strange new world now no

01:00:25   doubt about it but the downside of it is

01:00:28   that so effectively though kota to is a

01:00:31   new product or any app store

01:00:34   yes moto one is no longer in the

01:00:36   appstore correct right because there's

01:00:38   no other way to do it they can people

01:00:40   can still read download it you know we

01:00:42   didn't like delete the app but it's not

01:00:44   available for sale where I was

01:00:46   nerve-racking simple oh wait so you can

01:00:49   do that you know you could do that so

01:00:51   when am i right

01:00:52   can anyone i hope i'm right like what do

01:00:54   I look to market immediately yeah I

01:00:55   think I i removed it from all the

01:00:57   territories so as far as i know the app

01:01:00   is somewhere but you can't buy it and

01:01:04   yeah could you guys fix a bug

01:01:07   we have to load actually don't know what

01:01:12   would you get an update i'll try it

01:01:14   okay I want everyone to Helen all things

01:01:16   because i won't otherwise that's like up

01:01:19   real high pressure release this is like

01:01:20   this is the relieving kodaline yeah and

01:01:23   you want to do the right thing for the

01:01:25   customers which is give them a stable

01:01:27   release that they can use forever right

01:01:29   on the other hand they're kind of it's

01:01:31   kind of hard for you guys to get excited

01:01:33   about the people who aren't buying the

01:01:34   upgraded

01:01:36   alright we're not gonna do I mean the

01:01:37   only thing I could possibly see us do is

01:01:40   if there's some kind of major security

01:01:42   problem and Kota won or something then

01:01:45   maybe we consider it but certainly no

01:01:46   features certainly no development

01:01:48   yeah so my favorite feature in in diet

01:01:52   code how many people here have tried

01:01:53   diet anyone traveling oh nice that's

01:01:56   always great at taking tests that's

01:01:58   super cool

01:01:59   my favorite feature far and away is the

01:02:02   loop yeah I don't know if you call it a

01:02:04   loop the super loop the super Lou a

01:02:06   great name

01:02:07   yeah it is so good and it is so much

01:02:11   better than the built-in iOS text set

01:02:14   its selection loop so just to set the

01:02:16   stage what I mean is you know everybody

01:02:18   should know when you're in iOS and you

01:02:20   want to place the insertion point in a

01:02:22   text field you press and hold your

01:02:25   finger and a little loop appears

01:02:26   magnifying above it and then you can see

01:02:29   and precisely place it and you know it's

01:02:32   you know it's like the size of like an

01:02:34   okay yeah thing with your finger here

01:02:36   yeah very hard right yeah in kota or Die

01:02:40   akota it is the full width of the text

01:02:43   editing curled yep and it snaps two

01:02:46   lines it is not just like freeform it it

01:02:50   is a completely understands the idea

01:02:52   that text is composed of lines and

01:02:54   you're looking at one line at a time

01:02:55   when you see the full with loomed up and

01:02:59   there's the the panache of the the next

01:03:02   and previous lines being distorted

01:03:04   operating right that's my favorite

01:03:07   feature to always the thing this is kind

01:03:09   of a classic panic thing because we knew

01:03:11   we wanted to fix the problem of the

01:03:12   insertion point and so we're talking

01:03:14   about full length and then I i did this

01:03:16   like super-quick photoshop mock-up of

01:03:18   what the lens looks like and then sort

01:03:20   of handed over to Dave to implement and

01:03:22   then without saying a word he did all

01:03:25   the opengl stuff just like I never said

01:03:27   it needs to make me I never expected

01:03:29   that but um he just it just was assumed

01:03:32   that of course you're going to magnify

01:03:33   the lines and like warp and distort them

01:03:36   and so that was just as kind of an

01:03:38   awesome moment treasure it after using

01:03:41   it it really I'd never really given

01:03:43   thought to it before but all of us on

01:03:44   much like the best

01:03:46   don't like once you've used the retina

01:03:47   display and then you go back to the old

01:03:49   ones like all that's terrible once i use

01:03:51   the diet kodalu awesome using the

01:03:53   regular loop and any other app on the

01:03:55   iPad feels awful Astros constrain its

01:03:58   ruined i'm glad to hear that i love the

01:04:01   number of emails we get though about I

01:04:03   sure hope Apple steals that what

01:04:05   happened do you really about that seems

01:04:09   kind of mean that i understand i totally

01:04:12   understand but I really like you to come

01:04:14   i really do hope Apple steals yeah like

01:04:17   in mail

01:04:17   yeah I like pull-to-refresh hmm i feel

01:04:21   like that you think they're going to

01:04:22   tweak it a little bit of it

01:04:24   I don't know yeah there's my question

01:04:26   and it's inverse distortions be right

01:04:28   and maybe instead of going to full with

01:04:31   your writing better run click around

01:04:33   record Horner right i think they will

01:04:36   say that the square corners are gone

01:04:38   what will check in the next podcast in

01:04:40   five years you couldn't speak what

01:04:41   happened what else whatever I mean any

01:04:46   other stories about developing an ipad

01:04:50   version of a mac app like I mean it was

01:04:53   it's it's a ton

01:04:55   it's just a lot of work to to think

01:04:57   about like I mean there's not even

01:04:59   really a text you ate like we have to

01:05:01   start starting from square one but we

01:05:03   knew we wanted to write a terminal so we

01:05:05   kind of made prompt and that was sort of

01:05:06   a part of everything you know but I'm it

01:05:09   was a total rethink it was like we knew

01:05:11   what we're going to do the same feature

01:05:13   set we knew this was like again quick

01:05:15   fixes on the go

01:05:16   what do we need to pare it down to and

01:05:18   uh how do we make it awesome i don't

01:05:22   know if you saw the most experimental

01:05:24   thing and I'm still not sure if it was a

01:05:25   great idea but it's been really fun

01:05:27   seeing people's reactions to it is the

01:05:29   method in which you pair your ipad with

01:05:32   your mac we have this thing called air

01:05:33   preview that lets you use your iPad as a

01:05:35   preview window and I haven't talked

01:05:38   about this before we got i became my my

01:05:41   weird obsession was pairing and how I'm

01:05:44   just tired of the pin numbers and can we

01:05:46   do anything cooler than pin numbers and

01:05:48   we tried everything imagine

01:05:50   although we started with knock three

01:05:52   times on the ipad we thought with the

01:05:54   accelerometer or the microphone like you

01:05:56   know somehow you knock three times we

01:05:58   got so close on that but it was like it

01:06:01   would trigger a gesture and all sorts of

01:06:03   trouble would happen and that was

01:06:05   disappointing and we tried this and that

01:06:07   and what we actually ended up doing was

01:06:09   using the camera and so you open air

01:06:12   preview on the mac and this psychedelic

01:06:14   window appears that cycles through

01:06:16   colors and that is synced over Bonjour

01:06:19   with the ipad and you just hold your

01:06:21   iPad up to the screen and it just pairs

01:06:23   right because it's looking for red

01:06:25   yellow green blue whatever i'm not sure

01:06:28   it's a great idea but it was super fun

01:06:30   and some people that there's not really

01:06:33   any feedback which i think is a problem

01:06:35   like you don't really know if it's

01:06:36   working or not as we've had people like

01:06:38   using the wrong camera and like I've

01:06:41   been sitting here for 15 minutes then

01:06:43   what's happening and but then those

01:06:45   emails like what the hell man i am

01:06:49   freaking out right now like a literally

01:06:51   people losing their minds about this

01:06:53   like what kind of sorcery like how did

01:06:56   this like that having no idea how it

01:06:58   works and and that was my dream like

01:07:00   that was my goal like I did it kinda

01:07:02   wanted to freak people out about so in

01:07:05   some ways mission accomplished

01:07:07   I don't know how long it's going to stay

01:07:08   that way halfway through we're like

01:07:09   outweigh the ipad one doesn't have a

01:07:11   camera haha so we implemented the pin

01:07:13   numbers looks like God full circle twice

01:07:18   the work

01:07:19   yeah anyways I really appreciate

01:07:21   everybody tryin yeah sometimes you gotta

01:07:24   try

01:07:25   yeah so the the other app store related

01:07:29   bugaboo that that you guys have

01:07:31   navigated I think very smartly but it's

01:07:34   still up making the best out of a tough

01:07:36   scenario is the fact that I cloud is

01:07:40   only available to apple apps and you

01:07:43   guys are still wisely you know with your

01:07:47   mac software selling it on your own

01:07:50   related to customers from your website

01:07:51   and having the same version in the app

01:07:53   store for people who prefer the app

01:07:55   store right which is very very common

01:07:57   for mac developers but that means you've

01:08:00   got a really cool feature like you know

01:08:02   got this

01:08:03   I cloud syncing so once you setup your

01:08:05   site yeah if you're signed in to iCloud

01:08:08   you not just on another mac now you can

01:08:10   go to an ipad eventually yeah it's not

01:08:12   quite there yet but and actually bailed

01:08:14   out at the last second we had iCloud

01:08:16   totally working in diet kota but it was

01:08:18   not I cloud has been a challenge for us

01:08:21   but um the that's been tough on some

01:08:24   customers and some customers don't

01:08:26   realize that when they want to switch

01:08:27   versions or they wanna uh and also now

01:08:30   we've had the inverse because I cloud

01:08:32   has been a little unreliable on the mac

01:08:34   some people kind of bummed out that

01:08:35   their sights on how to the cloud and

01:08:37   that the app is a little weird sometimes

01:08:39   and you know it's been it's been a real

01:08:41   challenge I think we were we should have

01:08:43   probably waited Intel mountain lion to

01:08:45   support iCloud I think they're still

01:08:47   working out some kinks and uh as if

01:08:49   anybody's considering supporting iCloud

01:08:51   maybe wait until all mountain lion

01:08:53   that's my advice but yeah that's that

01:08:55   all we could do was say get it from the

01:08:57   mac app store and you get iCloud or get

01:09:00   it from us and you don't do you have a

01:09:03   strong preference like if somebody came

01:09:05   up to you and said I'm going to buy coda

01:09:07   right now and tell me which way to buy I

01:09:10   want to do it the way that makes you

01:09:11   happier i literally have a fully neutral

01:09:14   answer because I don't know that I want

01:09:16   to load that up and I because I

01:09:17   basically say it's totally up to you if

01:09:20   you buy it in the mac app store I my

01:09:21   software on the mac app store

01:09:23   I like having all my apps in one place i

01:09:24   like the updating it's very convenient

01:09:26   if you buy from us we get more money and

01:09:30   you'll get updates faster which is a

01:09:31   huge issue for some people like right

01:09:34   now go to a one exists for direct users

01:09:36   Apple hasn't even started reviewing it

01:09:38   yet and this is really making people

01:09:41   angry so now we have people that want to

01:09:42   switch versions in the other direction

01:09:44   it's it's kind of a disaster but I'm i

01:09:46   have a fully neutral answer its total I

01:09:48   say it's up to you and people like

01:09:50   thanks for nothing lykia yeah it is that

01:09:54   it is your honest opinion I it is my

01:09:56   honest if I mean that you wouldn't be

01:09:57   selling the stuff in the mac app store

01:09:59   if you didn't want

01:10:00   because i do I like the mac app store

01:10:01   right but at the same time it's not

01:10:03   perfect so I feel like providing both is

01:10:06   the only fair way to approach it but I'm

01:10:09   totally neutral

01:10:10   what are you your mac app store man i

01:10:14   I'm all over the place yeah because I do

01:10:17   it because I feel like I i love the

01:10:21   convenience in the single source for

01:10:22   updates

01:10:23   yeah and i love the especially now that

01:10:27   I get stuff like a renewed computer and

01:10:29   yeah like I get over his uniform apple i

01:10:31   can go to the App Store and just go I

01:10:33   need that I need that I need that hemp i

01:10:35   but but then I get frustrated when I

01:10:39   know like I know the development and I

01:10:41   know they've already fixed the bug you

01:10:42   but I don't have it because i don't have

01:10:44   the mac app store version and have to

01:10:45   wait

01:10:46   it's also really surprising how few

01:10:47   users understand that process and how

01:10:50   few users understand that we have no

01:10:51   control over the app review process like

01:10:53   write everyday on twitter it's like what

01:10:55   windows apple releasing to a one I have

01:10:58   literally no idea right thank the

01:11:00   reviewers are working in the moscone

01:11:01   right now you know it'll never be a

01:11:04   matter of so I don't know

01:11:05   yeah are there any app store reviewers

01:11:07   here in the audience haha that would be

01:11:10   the stupidest hand-raised yeah in the

01:11:14   history of Henry's an incredibly bad

01:11:16   idea i actually asked our Apple contact

01:11:18   after we shipped I'm like it is there

01:11:20   any way i can send flowers to the

01:11:22   reviewer because they worked so hard her

01:11:24   like it is anybody was really nervous

01:11:26   right haha they wouldn't tell me they

01:11:29   were just like will pass along the

01:11:31   sentiment it's not like here here's a

01:11:33   feature that's the flip side so you know

01:11:35   Gotye cloud syncing which is only in

01:11:37   your App Store but now Mac abs in the

01:11:40   appstore have to be sandbach Oh sandbox

01:11:44   her and we could do a whole show about

01:11:45   salmon one particular feature that

01:11:48   matters for text editors is

01:11:50   authenticated saves your if you want to

01:11:52   save the aisle on your computer

01:11:54   yep on your computer now

01:11:56   remote on your computer but it requires

01:11:58   an administrator password yeah

01:12:00   in the old days you would just do a

01:12:02   thing and in our box have come up and

01:12:04   you would type your admin password and

01:12:06   it would be saved and now you can't do

01:12:08   it

01:12:09   yep so you've got a feature that the app

01:12:12   support and it's like you kind of feel

01:12:14   like you've gotta warn people before

01:12:16   they buy the app store and we're going

01:12:18   to get more and more complicated the

01:12:19   warnings right i mean there's gonna be

01:12:21   this is only the tip of the iceberg so

01:12:22   yeah and so like the bottom line is that

01:12:25   there really is no ideal verdict of the

01:12:28   app because if you buy the one from

01:12:30   panic com you can do authenticated saves

01:12:32   and maybe two other stuff that the

01:12:34   sandboxing you don't you don't have my

01:12:35   cloud and you know right yeah that it's

01:12:38   an interesting time it's a very

01:12:40   interesting interesting time

01:12:41   yeah well that's about it for me awesome

01:12:44   i am so glad you're here

01:12:46   I want to I want to do some thanks first

01:12:48   I want to thank media temple once again

01:12:50   yes

01:12:56   we literally would not be here if they

01:13:00   will if they hadn't generously sponsored

01:13:02   this show so go to their website sign up

01:13:05   with groover you save twenty five

01:13:07   percent on anything you buy from any

01:13:09   kind of service and you're entered to

01:13:11   win not just a macbook pro the retina

01:13:14   macbook brand which it's amazing

01:13:16   unbelievable thank you so much i want to

01:13:19   thank field notes field notes my friends

01:13:21   include all there's a table full of

01:13:23   field notes over there i'm using one

01:13:24   right now i have run this entire so from

01:13:26   there the finest notebooks in the world

01:13:28   I they are free for everybody out there

01:13:31   any left and they are free for anybody

01:13:34   that's what they're there for you can

01:13:35   just start throwing them at people i

01:13:37   don't know but we take them they're the

01:13:40   best notebooks in the world thank you to

01:13:41   field notes i want to thank mule radio

01:13:45   syndicate

01:13:51   absolutely just as important as media

01:13:55   temple sponsorship there is absolutely

01:13:56   no way that I would have gotten this

01:13:58   thing together if it wasn't that I was

01:13:59   working with mule and I gym ray Mike

01:14:03   Montero Katie Gilliam and especially our

01:14:07   sound guy who used to be right there but

01:14:09   he's had wandered away

01:14:11   yeah the Caleb sexton back there with

01:14:13   the he's got a very handsome beard haha

01:14:16   but Caleb does the audio he does it on

01:14:19   the weekly show to the regular ones and

01:14:21   and and if you have any audio complaints

01:14:24   i guarantee you it is either my fault or

01:14:27   more likely John mulches fault haha ah

01:14:30   and he takes r absolute crap audio and

01:14:35   makes it sound so much better working on

01:14:37   it but having everything that's good

01:14:38   about the sound of the show is all

01:14:40   Caleb and I thank him for that I want to

01:14:42   thank black pixel black pixel our

01:14:44   friends at black pixel I they've done

01:14:51   the mule radio iphone app that lets you

01:14:53   listen to all the mule radio shows all

01:14:55   the podcast it's a free app the shows

01:14:58   are free and it's a beautiful app it is

01:15:00   just great

01:15:01   if you don't already have it on your

01:15:03   iphone shame on you you should get it

01:15:04   right now it's a great app so thanks to

01:15:08   black pixel I want to thank Jesse char

01:15:11   yeah specific home from Pacific helm

01:15:16   dot-com specific helm is a iOS small iOS

01:15:22   developer shop it if your problem is you

01:15:25   have an idea for an app you're

01:15:26   developing an app but you what you want

01:15:27   is like a killer Apple flash panic style

01:15:32   yeah hyper attention to details are some

01:15:34   guys going to sweat over like a pixels

01:15:36   for three days the Pacific helm is a

01:15:38   type of counseling from you want to talk

01:15:40   to ya but she organized Jesse organized

01:15:43   this event awesome and

01:15:45   again it would not have happened

01:15:47   otherwise cable my thanks to you for

01:15:51   joining me for having me panic com thank

01:15:53   you thank you so much thank you and now

01:16:01   I've listened to the talk show and then

01:16:03   last of all I want to thank all of you

01:16:04   everybody was here think I'm so much it

01:16:07   is absolutely a thrill to do this in

01:16:10   front of you

01:16:10   everybody out there who listens to the

01:16:12   show thank you so much i can't thank all

01:16:15   of you enough for being here

01:16:16   I had a lot of fun i hope you didn't do

01:16:18   it was awesome thank you for listening

01:16:23   [Applause]