12: Down to the Mac Nerd Guys, with John Siracusa
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you know how to do to get this to happen
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what you have to do a reboot into my
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SuperDuper clone really yeah because i
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just upgraded 10-8 i was like i might
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upgrade every other computer that is a
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10-8 without a problem i said are all
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this looks like it's gonna be a cakewalk
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I'll just upgrade my main machine to ten
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eight and it was going fine until I
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tried to use skype and you sounded like
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whatever that the voice from the screen
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movie haha yeah or girl I I always I
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always do my skyping from my macbook air
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but that right after i upgraded that
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machine to ten eight and first tried to
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record a show i forget how many problems
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skype gave me it was it was pretty bad
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anyway before we get started this is
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this is a record this is something we i
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do with everybody on the show now is I
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need a little bit personal information I
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need your mother's maiden name and the
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name of the street you grew up on and
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your first elementary school about my
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pet's name first pet it had the exactly
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i need all four of those then yeah it's
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always just been weird to me that this
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we have all these rules around passwords
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and the backup to the backup for like
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well in case you forgot your password
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the backup is like things people can
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easily find out about using the internet
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that's like the category of what they
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are you know him
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of all the things like what color is
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your hair what is your eye color you
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like you can google for all this stuff a
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mother's maid named you kill off your
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entire mother's side of the family like
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they no longer exist how hard is it to
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look up what someone's mother's maiden
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name is yeah
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and of course know the reason we're
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talking about this is the the mat Honan
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situation from a week ago was a picture
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of my case you want to know his hair
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color and eye color
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all right go right to the wire story so
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the poor guy right there and just look
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on his face is like I just lost all the
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photos my daughter so that's what that
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looks as to me
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so anyway long story short I mean I'm
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sure everybody listens is probably at
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least somewhat familiar with the story
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but mat Honan is a lot of Twitter
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followers any rights for Wired used to
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write for gizmodo i really had like a
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war almost like a worst-case scenario
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where like saturday afternoon he's
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playing with his young daughter and all
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of a sudden like starts noticing some
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funky things i forget what what came
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first but like all the Senators phone
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rebooted as I phone rebooted and next
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thing you know is his ipad reboots his
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macbook air reboots they all get locked
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out there all remote wiped and all the
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sudden some hacker group starts posting
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takes over his twitter account start
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posting having just horrible racist and
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homophobic and maybe most embarrassing
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of all ridiculous hacker leet speak talk
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to his Twitter account and long story
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short the whole thing happened because
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they wanted to mess with his twitter
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account and to get his twitter account
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they wanted his gmail account and his
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gmail account had as his backup is
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me.com iCloud email address as I got you
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know secondary account and they knew
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that they could take that over just by
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calling apple and giving them his street
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address in the last four digits of his
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credit card and they could get the last
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four digits of his credit card just by
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calling amazon and giving amazon is what
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was it i forget what you need to know
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like an email address and a shipping
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address and then you could say hey i
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have a new credit card i just wanted to
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add it to my account you give them a
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bogus credit card then you call amazon
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write back and say I I lost access to my
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email I think I've got this right so far
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doing yeah you gotta read your stuff I
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lost access to my email but I do know
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the last four digits of my credit card
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which is the bogus one they just gave
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you did you just gave amazon not even a
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real credit card you did you just go
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online and use like a tool that gives
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you like a credit card that you know one
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that hasn't been verified to make
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charges but just the numbers comply with
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the rules you know we're like MasterCard
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start with a five and pieces start with
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couple of other rules at which point
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amazon will let you reset your account
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to i forget what they do it somehow they
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reset your they let you add a new email
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address i think they let you log in and
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you can't see your credit card numbers
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at the login you can see the abbreviated
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version right existing credit card
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number which is all you need to give
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Apple right just this last four digits
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going to start out everything except the
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last four right and so then you can call
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apple back with say i'm mat Honan here's
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my home address here's the last four
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digits of my count III did you know
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please reset my my iCloud password and
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then at that point all that all those
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dominoes that I just set up over the
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last four minutes they all fall down
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because now they've got his iCloud
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account and they can
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they've got the password for that and
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then they use that to use the find my
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iphone to remote wipe his devices to
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lock him out of his computers and then
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they had gmail send reset password to
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the iCloud account they were control of
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which let them take over his gmail and
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then they just did it seems like the guy
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I can eat as it the thing that most
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surprisingly easy wasn't it at least
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publicly and writing about it didn't
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seem angry about the guys who did this
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that's one of those things where like
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you're in shock right is it's just it's
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just such a huge to thing that just so
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unlikely to happen you don't even
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imagine happening then also he says many
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times that he blames himself and
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probably rightly like you don't blame
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yourself for getting hacked but you
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blame for yourself or having no backups
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right that's that's the killer all the
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guys wanted to do is take over his
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twitter account and mess around with it
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which in and of itself would be their
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being assholes about it but at least if
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that's all that they did all they did
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was embarrass him by putting a bunch of
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gibberish on his twitter account for 12
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hours but the remote wiping of his
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computers and they they also like remote
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war not remote white but you know did
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whatever you do in gmail to say hey just
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you know delete everything I have in
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here which is right for him like seven
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years of email or something like that
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boom just to close out the account
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that's just spiked well it's not it's
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not so much spite because they don't
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the guy it's just like if you give
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hackers if that one's hackers get access
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how are you going to resist that like
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now you know that the whole idea is like
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control and power it's like you know
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what I can remotely wipe all these guys
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machines because of how we set
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everything up that's just the ultimate
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in power you're reaching across the
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internet and just like massively smiting
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this person so it's impossible to resist
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I guess so because I guess whatever is
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wrong with your with whatever is wrong
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with your mind that would make you
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wanted to take over someones twitter
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account like that it's probably wrong in
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the same way where you're going to get
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to have a giggle out of remote wiping
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their computer and that's that's all you
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yeah that's just that's just the mindset
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but the thing about it is like so we all
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heard this story and i think first thing
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everyone is looking for like what can i
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do to prevent this happening to me
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that's why we all right all these
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details about how this is akin to that
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and you know like is there something I
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can do to my setup to make it so this
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can't happen to me and I think the worst
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part of the story is there's probably
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nothing you can do to stop something
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similar happening to your not the exact
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same thing but something similar because
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all you can do is have good backups
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obviously but ignoring that having good
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backups everything else is like things
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that aren't under our control we don't
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control amazon's policy for recovering
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your credit card or Apple's policy for
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how to reset like we don't control any
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of that stuff and so does not it does
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seem we seem powerless because like i
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have good passwords are all different
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I have like having a backup gmail
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account seems like a good thing I have
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you know if I ever need to recover I've
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got my backup gmail account like
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everything seems to be good and then
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that but where we end up getting screwed
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is because of things that other people
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did that we can't control me probably
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never even thought of point like Google
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for example is really really encourages
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you to have a backup gmail account but
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in fact if he didn't he would have been
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better off right or if it had been
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something other than you know so a
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different service that we didn't have as
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exploitable rules for password recovery
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and it's kinda gets back to the question
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of you know the getting your what is
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your first pet's name and stuff like
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the idea that there's all the security
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but the weak link in the security is the
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the thing that's there because we all
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forget our passwords and that's like oh
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I forgot my pass
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word how do i recover it and the things
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that used to recover it or so much less
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secure than every other part of the
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system is just the most glaring weak
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link meanwhile as well ask you like what
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is your first name is your last name
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like it's so easy to find information
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and just you know just tell me the truth
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is it really you
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right like you but your pics with your
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pinky swear you can get your account oh
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and I I recognize why that's the case
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but it seems almost perverse it's like
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it's easier you know it's easier than
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remembering your password remembering
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simple demographic information about
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yourself and look at your wall a few
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seconds of your credit card and that's
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all you need to get into these counts if
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you're willing to sit on that phone for
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two seconds so right and i have to admit
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and a certain selfish level one of the
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things I was looking at over the weekend
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as this excuse me is this situation
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exploded was I remember thinking I I
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kind of hope that conan did something
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at some point along the way like you
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know figures out that it you know like
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he logged into his gmail on a you know
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that a library public library computer
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or something like that
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um I like something that I would never
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do so that I then i could think well
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that couldn't happen to me
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yeah whereas I kind of think I yeah it
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might be I don't know if that's aI don't
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know that anybody could take over my
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twitter account the way that they did I
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don't think i have a chain of emails
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account that's connected to gmail like
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that but I'm not a hundred percent sure
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but on but he certainly somebody
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certainly could have could ever even
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still could take over my icloud account
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the same way
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yeah well not anymore because I'm right
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because I and amazon has as well and I
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think that's the one thing in the
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stories i think Amazon decision to
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display the stars you know in the last
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four digits of the credit card i don't
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think you should bring them for that
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because that's been standard practice
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yeah and everything the last four digits
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the flaw was not that Amazon shows you
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last word is the flaws in amazon's
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customer service allowing you to reset
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passwords and
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secondarily an apple saying all you just
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need to give me the last four digits
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because I don't want you to read the all
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the digits over the phone because that
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would be insecure or whatever like
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that's crazy where you just need the
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last four digits as a to prove that
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you're you it's not i don't blame amazon
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at all for showing the credit cards the
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way that I everything else yes this
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plenty of blame to go around for that
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one part i don't think people should get
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hung up on right enterprise yeah and so
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am an amazon i think has an easier fix
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where I just don't think that they
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should allow like you said they
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shouldn't allow that stuff to be changed
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over the phone like that and
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particularly not
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oh you know that it's so disconnected
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where you give them a credit card and
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they say okay went to them and you call
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back and say hey i just got locked out
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here is my credit card number that you
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just gave them and there's no awareness
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that you just gave them to that it
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doesn't have to be a credit card that
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you you'd like their verification
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procedure for proving who you are
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similarly bogus that's game so easily by
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a call give a fake never hang up call
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back right it certainly shouldn't be
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possible to do it with a credit card
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►
that like if you want to say this is my
00:11:49
◼
►
new credit card and that they want to
00:11:51
◼
►
enter it without actually running a
00:11:53
◼
►
that's ok but it should still somehow be
00:11:56
◼
►
flagged as ok there's a new credit card
00:11:58
◼
►
here but this is an unverified card that
00:12:00
◼
►
hasn't even had a charge run against it
00:12:02
◼
►
yet or just have an awareness that this
00:12:03
◼
►
guy just called two minutes they'll
00:12:05
◼
►
always ask today or whatever and you
00:12:07
◼
►
know called a discarded like if not a
00:12:10
◼
►
lot of thought has gone into those
00:12:12
◼
►
recovery procedures and and I understand
00:12:14
◼
►
like the recovery procedures have to be
00:12:15
◼
►
easy because like look these guys
00:12:17
◼
►
couldn't remember the password we gotta
00:12:19
◼
►
make it so easy can you imagine the
00:12:20
◼
►
turmoil if if they had policies that
00:12:23
◼
►
were more like you forget your password
00:12:25
◼
►
you call them up and I can't prove these
00:12:27
◼
►
people that I am Who I am like they want
00:12:29
◼
►
my passport had to show up in person and
00:12:31
◼
►
give it blood sample i gotta know it's
00:12:33
◼
►
ridiculous I can't get my accountant
00:12:35
◼
►
lock they won't believe that I'm OMI
00:12:36
◼
►
totally and like that is bad PR as well
00:12:39
◼
►
so that they go to the other way and
00:12:40
◼
►
they say okay well we'll just ask them
00:12:42
◼
►
some basic stuff and ask them some
00:12:44
◼
►
security question that anyone can google
00:12:46
◼
►
the answer to and
00:12:47
◼
►
no maybe something about their credit
00:12:49
◼
►
card or just the expiration date or some
00:12:50
◼
►
stuff like that so people come out of
00:12:52
◼
►
that experience like oh I forgot my
00:12:53
◼
►
password i called customer service it
00:12:55
◼
►
was so nice it was so easy i got right
00:12:57
◼
►
that's 99.999% of time those policies
00:13:01
◼
►
get put good feelings and customers and
00:13:03
◼
►
how easy it was for them to recover
00:13:04
◼
►
their account but this one percent is a
00:13:06
◼
►
all right right i can sort of CNN and so
00:13:09
◼
►
I think bottom line is that Apple really
00:13:11
◼
►
had the the procedure in place that
00:13:13
◼
►
deserves the most criticism we're being
00:13:16
◼
►
able to get your iCloud account or Apple
00:13:18
◼
►
idea i should say because it you know
00:13:20
◼
►
any kind of Apple ID not just an iCloud
00:13:22
◼
►
account but you can get your Apple ID
00:13:23
◼
►
password reset just with your name home
00:13:28
◼
►
address and last four digits of a credit
00:13:31
◼
►
card really seems like glaringly
00:13:34
◼
►
insecure like I I when I wrote about it
00:13:37
◼
►
you'd never write your password on a
00:13:39
◼
►
piece of paper and put it in your or at
00:13:41
◼
►
least most people who couldn't do it and
00:13:44
◼
►
keep it in your wallet but anybody who
00:13:46
◼
►
picks up my wallet has my home address
00:13:47
◼
►
and the last four digits of all my
00:13:49
◼
►
credit cards
00:13:50
◼
►
I mean and so I mean obviously you're in
00:13:52
◼
►
a lot of trouble of some you know no
00:13:54
◼
►
good neck as your wallet but you
00:13:57
◼
►
shouldn't be thinking by conveyor lost
00:13:59
◼
►
my wallet or I suspected somebody stole
00:14:00
◼
►
it i would never think we're now they've
00:14:02
◼
►
got my icloud account but in fact
00:14:04
◼
►
according to the you know by their
00:14:06
◼
►
previous procedures they would
00:14:08
◼
►
yeah and it's the worst because that is
00:14:10
◼
►
the power of the Apple ID has just
00:14:13
◼
►
vastly increased over time like that
00:14:15
◼
►
first it was like you can buy stuff from
00:14:17
◼
►
itunes that bad enough right right then
00:14:19
◼
►
you know the iCloud you can remote wipe
00:14:20
◼
►
those machines and then extended to max
00:14:22
◼
►
and so like finally I cloud became
00:14:24
◼
►
powerful enough to control any piece of
00:14:26
◼
►
hardware anyway if so configured and
00:14:28
◼
►
this poor guy and just after that
00:14:30
◼
►
happened gets hacked and they just they
00:14:32
◼
►
reach out and they just wipe all his
00:14:34
◼
►
hardware which is such a crazy thing you
00:14:35
◼
►
would expect like all have to break into
00:14:37
◼
►
each write whatever know they just get
00:14:38
◼
►
that one little key to the kingdom and
00:14:40
◼
►
over the network wherever you are
00:14:42
◼
►
wherever these things are they can go to
00:14:44
◼
►
Tommy I mean you're really wonder and
00:14:46
◼
►
find once you're in find my iphone
00:14:48
◼
►
your-your-your I don't know six klicks
00:14:50
◼
►
away from wiping out all three of the
00:14:53
◼
►
yeah so I did I don't know what what
00:14:58
◼
►
they should do I know everybody a lot of
00:15:01
◼
►
of thing a lot of publicity and low in
00:15:03
◼
►
response to this is about Google's
00:15:05
◼
►
optional two-factor authentication you
00:15:09
◼
►
know which I don't use even in and after
00:15:13
◼
►
this because it just seems like a pain
00:15:16
◼
►
yeah wonder if that would help though it
00:15:18
◼
►
because if you had your back up email
00:15:20
◼
►
address as your mac.com thing with that
00:15:22
◼
►
with the 10 things that i don't think
00:15:23
◼
►
the two-factor lets you use email i
00:15:25
◼
►
think it has to be like a phone or
00:15:26
◼
►
something but like well two factors for
00:15:29
◼
►
just getting in but like what if you if
00:15:31
◼
►
you can't get into the two-factor thing
00:15:32
◼
►
I thought you could go okay I've totally
00:15:33
◼
►
forgotten you send something to my
00:15:36
◼
►
backup gmail address like isn't that the
00:15:37
◼
►
point of the backup is like that the
00:15:39
◼
►
last reason but i think if you turn if
00:15:40
◼
►
think if you sign up for the two-factor
00:15:42
◼
►
authentication at Google then now it you
00:15:45
◼
►
can't reset your account that way
00:15:47
◼
►
yeah I think it'd be one thing I didn't
00:15:51
◼
►
respond to the story was changed my
00:15:52
◼
►
backup email address on google to do not
00:15:55
◼
►
be one of my various Apple ID
00:15:58
◼
►
mm I think differently production the
00:16:00
◼
►
old people have is we have multiple
00:16:01
◼
►
Apple IDs for historical reasons and you
00:16:04
◼
►
know that that helps a little bit of
00:16:07
◼
►
security through obscurity but yeah I
00:16:08
◼
►
change it to not be my mind because so
00:16:11
◼
►
then i like it because it your main
00:16:13
◼
►
email addresses really like the keys to
00:16:15
◼
►
the kingdom because that's always liked
00:16:16
◼
►
associated with all of your accounts and
00:16:17
◼
►
you can send the password resets there
00:16:19
◼
►
so that really has to be super protected
00:16:20
◼
►
many times I've considered putting two
00:16:22
◼
►
factor auth on my gmail account but it
00:16:26
◼
►
just seems too annoying to me I maybe I
00:16:28
◼
►
should just try it for a while see if it
00:16:29
◼
►
really is an expense especially knowing
00:16:31
◼
►
to me because I don't have an iphone so
00:16:32
◼
►
i got my crap phone and do i really want
00:16:34
◼
►
to be making sure my crap phone is
00:16:37
◼
►
charged and has a signal and i can look
00:16:38
◼
►
at the little code you don't know maybe
00:16:41
◼
►
i'll try it someday but but anyway like
00:16:43
◼
►
you know I would have been more
00:16:44
◼
►
motivated motivated you that there was
00:16:46
◼
►
some sort of password hack or something
00:16:49
◼
►
really it's just it's customer-service
00:16:50
◼
►
policies that the bottom right and I can
00:16:54
◼
►
also see how I you know it was a mistake
00:16:57
◼
►
and not clearly somebody with a good
00:17:00
◼
►
suspicious hardened security mindset
00:17:03
◼
►
didn't really look at these procedures
00:17:05
◼
►
that Apple had in place but from a
00:17:07
◼
►
customer support standpoint you could
00:17:09
◼
►
see I mean who knows who only knows who
00:17:11
◼
►
can only guess how many people call
00:17:14
◼
►
every honest people with the honest
00:17:16
◼
►
problem that they don't remember their
00:17:17
◼
►
iCloud password
00:17:19
◼
►
I who needed just need it reset
00:17:22
◼
►
I mean who knows i mean i wouldn't be
00:17:25
◼
►
surprised if it's a huge number
00:17:26
◼
►
yeah when they say social engineering
00:17:28
◼
►
you think it's like someone was a smooth
00:17:30
◼
►
talker kind of controlled somebody into
00:17:31
◼
►
doing something they weren't supposed to
00:17:33
◼
►
whatever but this was a case of they
00:17:34
◼
►
were just going right down late night
00:17:35
◼
►
they were totally within the guidelines
00:17:37
◼
►
they didn't have to sweet-talk anybody
00:17:39
◼
►
they didn't have to make a sob story and
00:17:40
◼
►
I bet the sob stories work like I bet
00:17:42
◼
►
you know if you're really convincing and
00:17:44
◼
►
you're like oh it's an emergency or I
00:17:46
◼
►
need this right now or you know I don't
00:17:47
◼
►
remember my home address community in
00:17:49
◼
►
our if you can be convincing I remember
00:17:51
◼
►
home address but if you can be
00:17:53
◼
►
convincing in that way that's what you
00:17:54
◼
►
think of when your social engineering
00:17:55
◼
►
this was a social engineering this was
00:17:56
◼
►
just a normal customer services a call
00:17:59
◼
►
that proceed exactly as expected right
00:18:02
◼
►
that's that's the really scary part
00:18:04
◼
►
yeah it wasn't like this was you know
00:18:06
◼
►
the world's greatest con man really
00:18:09
◼
►
pulling a clever clever scam over the
00:18:13
◼
►
support rep yeah it was just right
00:18:15
◼
►
it also seems to me and this isn't is so
00:18:17
◼
►
clear from home and reporting on it
00:18:20
◼
►
which has been copious you know he did a
00:18:22
◼
►
really good thorough write-up of it for
00:18:24
◼
►
wired the day or two later but I got the
00:18:28
◼
►
impression from his back and forth with
00:18:31
◼
►
the one of the hackers who got him that
00:18:36
◼
►
this seems to get at least in certain
00:18:40
◼
►
underground circle seem to be widely
00:18:42
◼
►
known that you can take over it an apple
00:18:46
◼
►
ID pretty easily if you can get those
00:18:49
◼
►
yeah this is the type of thing that
00:18:50
◼
►
would be widely known because it just
00:18:51
◼
►
doesn't require technical skills is just
00:18:53
◼
►
simply you know it a not very well-kept
00:18:57
◼
►
secret among people who are in these
00:18:58
◼
►
circles that here here are the easy ways
00:19:00
◼
►
to exploit customer-service policies to
00:19:04
◼
►
get access to people's accountant no
00:19:05
◼
►
hacking required and so I you know one
00:19:07
◼
►
of the things I've had in the week sense
00:19:10
◼
►
is that live seen a lot of reports over
00:19:11
◼
►
the last year to not a nine-ton but
00:19:14
◼
►
enough that I've seen it so good at
00:19:16
◼
►
something that's repeated that people
00:19:20
◼
►
getting our itunes account hacked and
00:19:21
◼
►
their swear up and down that they use
00:19:23
◼
►
the unique password
00:19:25
◼
►
I never put into it somebody else's
00:19:28
◼
►
computer and it just doesn't make any
00:19:31
◼
►
sense how their account got hacked and
00:19:37
◼
►
it was the stories like oh this is a
00:19:38
◼
►
well-known hack and apples addressing
00:19:40
◼
►
and maybe it was all customer service
00:19:42
◼
►
stuff I wonder though because it and my
00:19:44
◼
►
first thought was I bet that maybe
00:19:45
◼
►
that's the source of this is that
00:19:47
◼
►
there's people who you know that who use
00:19:49
◼
►
this this address in for digital credit
00:19:51
◼
►
card combined maybe with the amazon
00:19:53
◼
►
thing to do that but I would think that
00:19:58
◼
►
apple would be able to and apples
00:20:00
◼
►
publicly at least has brushed these off
00:20:01
◼
►
by saying you know with you know that
00:20:04
◼
►
the response when people write in and
00:20:06
◼
►
say look my account was hacked was that
00:20:07
◼
►
you know you should be more careful with
00:20:08
◼
►
your password blog more or less kind of
00:20:10
◼
►
blaming them i assuming that it was
00:20:14
◼
►
somehow the users fault that for leaking
00:20:15
◼
►
their password but i would think if
00:20:17
◼
►
there was a pattern where these people
00:20:19
◼
►
who called and said my account got
00:20:20
◼
►
hacked and their account records show
00:20:23
◼
►
that they had one of these phone calls
00:20:25
◼
►
where they got the account changed
00:20:29
◼
►
presumably recently right i mean i don't
00:20:32
◼
►
think any of these hackers if their goal
00:20:34
◼
►
is to do things like by a hundred
00:20:36
◼
►
dollars worth of apps from your itunes
00:20:40
◼
►
account it's not like they're changing
00:20:42
◼
►
your password and then doing it two
00:20:46
◼
►
months later because you're going to
00:20:48
◼
►
notice right away because all of a
00:20:49
◼
►
sudden you can't get in your itunes
00:20:50
◼
►
account presumably they changed the
00:20:52
◼
►
password and immediately use it you
00:20:55
◼
►
would think that that pattern would be
00:20:56
◼
►
detectable in your in your records that
00:20:58
◼
►
hey these people all called up and had
00:21:01
◼
►
their password changed right before they
00:21:02
◼
►
can claim to be hacked
00:21:04
◼
►
that's the same as the Amazon situation
00:21:06
◼
►
that were you call up at a credit card
00:21:07
◼
►
hang-up call right back that I can't get
00:21:08
◼
►
him I can't like the there probably is a
00:21:11
◼
►
lack of global awareness of what has
00:21:13
◼
►
happened in the past to this customer
00:21:16
◼
►
and you always let me pull up your
00:21:18
◼
►
record here before you talk to you
00:21:19
◼
►
expect them to see a record of all the
00:21:20
◼
►
times you've called but maybe that's
00:21:22
◼
►
maybe that's not happening
00:21:23
◼
►
you know like obviously it's not
00:21:25
◼
►
happening in the Amazon case we're not
00:21:26
◼
►
pulling up everything and saying you
00:21:27
◼
►
just called two minutes ago to add this
00:21:28
◼
►
credit card now your number back to me
00:21:30
◼
►
like anyone can see that that's weird
00:21:33
◼
►
so you just you just assuming that they
00:21:36
◼
►
would realize that
00:21:38
◼
►
all these people who got hacked i can
00:21:39
◼
►
look from their records and they all did
00:21:40
◼
►
this past maybe they don't even see that
00:21:42
◼
►
maybe it's not even the same people
00:21:43
◼
►
maybe they don't have access to that
00:21:44
◼
►
record who knows right
00:21:46
◼
►
you can't tell i mean the other
00:21:47
◼
►
alternative is an apple news trying to
00:21:49
◼
►
cover it up but I don't see why they
00:21:51
◼
►
would do that because it's so easy to
00:21:52
◼
►
change that policy matters we see like
00:21:54
◼
►
they changed the policy is not rocket
00:21:56
◼
►
science not like they need to patch some
00:21:58
◼
►
piece of software they just say okay new
00:21:59
◼
►
policy everybody don't do that anymore
00:22:01
◼
►
but I don't have a hard problem to solve
00:22:04
◼
►
them because what should they do what
00:22:05
◼
►
should they do to to let you reset your
00:22:08
◼
►
password if you forget it
00:22:09
◼
►
yeah i mean you can go with the full
00:22:11
◼
►
credit card number if it's like a credit
00:22:13
◼
►
card is actually been used a that's not
00:22:17
◼
►
good though because i don't think it
00:22:18
◼
►
should be information that you can get
00:22:19
◼
►
by stealing somebody's wallet
00:22:21
◼
►
well I mean it's got it the thing with
00:22:22
◼
►
the two factors like something you have
00:22:24
◼
►
versus something you know and all the
00:22:26
◼
►
different things that you can use to
00:22:27
◼
►
authenticate but when they have
00:22:29
◼
►
forgotten their password and if you
00:22:31
◼
►
don't have any other shared piece of
00:22:33
◼
►
information with them all you can do to
00:22:35
◼
►
prove that you're you is give them
00:22:38
◼
►
information they already have about you
00:22:39
◼
►
there's no new information you can give
00:22:41
◼
►
them to prove that you're you right you
00:22:43
◼
►
can only mean maybe what you could do
00:22:47
◼
►
like in the in the fantasy world type
00:22:49
◼
►
thing is when you create your account
00:22:50
◼
►
have like photo be have to be associated
00:22:53
◼
►
with the account and when you try to
00:22:55
◼
►
recover your thing they can do a video
00:22:56
◼
►
chat with you which we currently don't
00:22:58
◼
►
quite have the technology to fake like
00:23:00
◼
►
they ask you questions and you talk to
00:23:01
◼
►
them and they can see that it's really
00:23:02
◼
►
you and it then your twin brother can
00:23:04
◼
►
break into your account i guess but
00:23:05
◼
►
that's that's kind of more family
00:23:07
◼
►
problem like stuff like that what else
00:23:10
◼
►
can you really do what all they only
00:23:12
◼
►
know about you is what they have on file
00:23:13
◼
►
and if you compare it back every piece
00:23:15
◼
►
of that information to them then one of
00:23:18
◼
►
those the haps I think photos and videos
00:23:20
◼
►
that the only next place it can go and
00:23:22
◼
►
beyond that it has to be some sort of
00:23:23
◼
►
two factors thing goodnight i know i've
00:23:26
◼
►
gotten credit cards before where like
00:23:29
◼
►
women a new credit card comes you have
00:23:31
◼
►
to call to activate it and that only
00:23:33
◼
►
works if you call from the phone number
00:23:35
◼
►
that they have on file for you
00:23:37
◼
►
um I don't know how much your phone can
00:23:41
◼
►
be you know and I know that's how partly
00:23:43
◼
►
partly how Google's two-factor
00:23:45
◼
►
authentication works is assuming that
00:23:46
◼
►
you have a phone number that can be
00:23:48
◼
►
yeah that's that's something you have
00:23:50
◼
►
what do you have I have
00:23:51
◼
►
my cell phone I have my home phone my i
00:23:53
◼
►
have possession of the home from which
00:23:55
◼
►
this number i mean it's not be able to
00:23:56
◼
►
have landlines as much anymore but it's
00:23:57
◼
►
it's it's just something you have thing
00:23:59
◼
►
they're ok I had a similar situation of
00:24:01
◼
►
you saw these tweets from like the other
00:24:02
◼
►
week when i was going to pick up my
00:24:04
◼
►
monitor at the apple store
00:24:05
◼
►
yeah i did send it and I forgot my
00:24:07
◼
►
wallet and they said I'm sorry we can't
00:24:10
◼
►
give you your computer without your
00:24:11
◼
►
wallet and and what I thought of was
00:24:14
◼
►
look you've got my information on file
00:24:17
◼
►
why didn't you just call the telephone
00:24:19
◼
►
number associated with with you know
00:24:21
◼
►
this repair and my wife will answer the
00:24:23
◼
►
phone and Julie tell you that I just
00:24:25
◼
►
left to go to the apple store and she'll
00:24:26
◼
►
talk to me on the phone and confirm that
00:24:28
◼
►
it's to you that it like right
00:24:29
◼
►
what's more secure than that like anyone
00:24:32
◼
►
can get a wallet and a photo ID and who
00:24:35
◼
►
knows what the picture they look at the
00:24:36
◼
►
picture it looks particularly like me or
00:24:38
◼
►
anything like that anyway yeah that's
00:24:39
◼
►
much easier to fake then you have this
00:24:41
◼
►
telephone number on file that i gave you
00:24:43
◼
►
when i drop that thing off why wouldn't
00:24:44
◼
►
you know if someone had my wife at
00:24:46
◼
►
gunpoint at home so they can get a new
00:24:47
◼
►
27 inch monitor but they wouldn't accept
00:24:50
◼
►
that and normally except the other
00:24:52
◼
►
things that suggested it was like a
00:24:54
◼
►
google for my name or other people said
00:24:56
◼
►
how about you just sign in with your
00:24:57
◼
►
Apple ID like there's an apple ID
00:24:59
◼
►
associated with this repair if I can
00:25:01
◼
►
sign in with that permits me no photo
00:25:03
◼
►
idea only so i have to go back home and
00:25:07
◼
►
get a photo ID and then I know what I
00:25:09
◼
►
know the kicker think that they have a
00:25:11
◼
►
guy doesn't even ask me for help because
00:25:13
◼
►
I rises silent the whole time I compete
00:25:15
◼
►
I tell mother here it goes back gets the
00:25:17
◼
►
thing give it to me put it back in the
00:25:19
◼
►
box all packed up he says all right so
00:25:21
◼
►
you're all set like I just wanted to
00:25:22
◼
►
make sure that he wasn't wait until the
00:25:24
◼
►
okay oh yeah let me see that photo and
00:25:26
◼
►
nothing compares like you know i just
00:25:29
◼
►
went home to get my photo i do and then
00:25:31
◼
►
now you didn't even ask words I
00:25:32
◼
►
recognize you from when you dropped it
00:25:33
◼
►
off i didn't i didn't recognize him he
00:25:36
◼
►
wasn't the guy who helped me and he
00:25:37
◼
►
wasn't I didn't see him when I first
00:25:38
◼
►
came here to kill me
00:25:40
◼
►
where was he half an hour ago yeah but
00:25:44
◼
►
there's a similar situation where you're
00:25:45
◼
►
going to have somebody especially like
00:25:48
◼
►
this warranty repair so it's free you're
00:25:49
◼
►
going to hand somebody potentially
00:25:51
◼
►
expensive piece of hardware just because
00:25:54
◼
►
they told you like their name and that
00:25:56
◼
►
there's something waiting for them and
00:25:57
◼
►
they want some way to show that you're
00:25:59
◼
►
you and that it's even weirder because
00:26:02
◼
►
when you drop it off i don't think they
00:26:04
◼
►
take the fall
00:26:04
◼
►
no idea i don't remember maybe someone
00:26:06
◼
►
will send you angry emails and so they
00:26:07
◼
►
do but like oh that but that's what they
00:26:10
◼
►
go with like photo identification so it
00:26:12
◼
►
seems it seems like for online has to be
00:26:15
◼
►
something similar way they're relying on
00:26:16
◼
►
your physical appearance and things that
00:26:19
◼
►
are difficult to fake not so much a
00:26:20
◼
►
photo but a video of you talking or
00:26:22
◼
►
something you have which is your cell
00:26:23
◼
►
phone or your home phone or you know
00:26:25
◼
►
something like that they can show that
00:26:27
◼
►
yeah I have this information and you may
00:26:29
◼
►
know the information that we have on
00:26:30
◼
►
file here but let's prove it's really
00:26:32
◼
►
you i'm going to call the phone number
00:26:33
◼
►
on here and you better answer it to show
00:26:35
◼
►
that it's really you
00:26:37
◼
►
I only other thing i can think of that
00:26:41
◼
►
could verify stuff like that would be
00:26:43
◼
►
like your your home address i get that
00:26:46
◼
►
seems pretty secure but then you don't
00:26:48
◼
►
get fast turnaround like maybe they
00:26:50
◼
►
could you send you if he's a male right
00:26:51
◼
►
they'll send you a piece of mail and the
00:26:53
◼
►
mail would contain like that you know
00:26:56
◼
►
some kind of keyword or something like
00:26:58
◼
►
unique and you have to call apple and
00:27:00
◼
►
read the keyword and then you know you
00:27:02
◼
►
can get your account back but you know I
00:27:05
◼
►
I'd customer service wise the three or
00:27:07
◼
►
four-day turnaround on that is you know
00:27:09
◼
►
this intolerant flip out that people
00:27:11
◼
►
would flip out on it would be like they
00:27:13
◼
►
would be a story in The New York Times
00:27:14
◼
►
in presenting two days of that policy
00:27:17
◼
►
going to affect its going to be
00:27:20
◼
►
electronic it's got to be immediate but
00:27:21
◼
►
it also has to be secure right now and i
00:27:24
◼
►
guess i would be negligent if I didn't
00:27:26
◼
►
mention that the recent accident at
00:27:28
◼
►
apple recently acquired of the URL handy
00:27:31
◼
►
they just bought like a fingerprint ID
00:27:33
◼
►
yeah and that's that's not good tweet
00:27:35
◼
►
about that I forget who was saying that
00:27:37
◼
►
if this this hack happened two days
00:27:40
◼
►
earlier before the acquisition the
00:27:42
◼
►
acquisition would have been read would
00:27:43
◼
►
have been reported a desperate move by
00:27:45
◼
►
Apple to show up its security resources
00:27:47
◼
►
i didn't think whatever that is true
00:27:49
◼
►
that's totally true apple that story
00:27:52
◼
►
dodged the bullet just by and by mere
00:27:54
◼
►
days because of this hack right because
00:27:56
◼
►
everybody wants to see cause and effect
00:27:58
◼
►
right yeah yeah that would have been
00:28:01
◼
►
huge it would have been absolutely use
00:28:02
◼
►
and then it would have been that you
00:28:04
◼
►
know it got a regular amount of what
00:28:06
◼
►
this means Apple must be adding
00:28:07
◼
►
fingerprint ID two phones and and
00:28:09
◼
►
trackpad soon or whatever but it would
00:28:11
◼
►
have been definitely would have been
00:28:12
◼
►
like iphone 5 is going to have a
00:28:14
◼
►
fingerprint ID scan all because of that
00:28:16
◼
►
Matt Holliday because you know what
00:28:17
◼
►
he got hacked and then 24 hours later
00:28:19
◼
►
they acquired a company for several
00:28:21
◼
►
million dollars because that's how those
00:28:22
◼
►
deals work right somebody wakes up
00:28:25
◼
►
what matter was hacked by the
00:28:26
◼
►
fingerprint company in the next day it's
00:28:28
◼
►
blocks done i will say this though in
00:28:30
◼
►
terms of coincidences and cause and
00:28:31
◼
►
effect and thinking maybe you know this
00:28:34
◼
►
might be related somehow tonight just a
00:28:37
◼
►
few hours ago I got a direct message
00:28:38
◼
►
from at verified then it's the Twitter
00:28:44
◼
►
verified accounts account and the direct
00:28:47
◼
►
message said that Twitter wanted to
00:28:48
◼
►
verify my Twitter account and click this
00:28:50
◼
►
URL sure rub it in good and i click it
00:28:55
◼
►
and you have to answer like three
00:28:57
◼
►
questions and and then also now I've got
00:29:00
◼
►
the got the little blue stamp up there
00:29:01
◼
►
I'm gonna be my Twitter account and you
00:29:03
◼
►
you get recognized apple stores and your
00:29:05
◼
►
catch whatever kind you know when it's
00:29:06
◼
►
all right out
00:29:07
◼
►
I'll handle and i know i can recognize
00:29:08
◼
►
that Apple sources good i but I don't
00:29:11
◼
►
ask for because this is one time it
00:29:12
◼
►
would make ya one the one time that it
00:29:15
◼
►
would save me
00:29:16
◼
►
you know you should have called me i
00:29:17
◼
►
would about you for still be the worst
00:29:20
◼
►
the worst called true burial tell you
00:29:23
◼
►
it's me I'm so what so what did Twitter
00:29:25
◼
►
ask you like well you know what and the
00:29:27
◼
►
funny thing is it's not really they're
00:29:29
◼
►
not really assuming that that I add that
00:29:31
◼
►
they say here's what they say when you
00:29:32
◼
►
this is how you get verified to say
00:29:34
◼
►
you're gonna answer three questions and
00:29:35
◼
►
I'm thinking I'm so suspicious and
00:29:37
◼
►
paranoid and I was already thing's a
00:29:39
◼
►
number one I was thinking when the
00:29:40
◼
►
direct message came in that it was a
00:29:42
◼
►
scam and I was hesitant to click the
00:29:44
◼
►
link and you don't follow it verified so
00:29:46
◼
►
how did the MU I had a very good
00:29:50
◼
►
question and in fact I don't know and
00:29:53
◼
►
their twitter they do whatever the hell
00:29:55
◼
►
you want exactly but it was the weirdest
00:29:57
◼
►
DMI ever got because it showed up on my
00:30:00
◼
►
mac in the Tweetbot alpha and I went
00:30:03
◼
►
just I don't even know why because i was
00:30:05
◼
►
so suspicious about this whole thing I
00:30:06
◼
►
went to my iphone and open the official
00:30:08
◼
►
twitter client and look for it there and
00:30:11
◼
►
it wasn't there and I right waited a
00:30:13
◼
►
couple minutes and reloaded and it
00:30:15
◼
►
didn't come and I started thinking like
00:30:18
◼
►
wow that's weird what the hell's going
00:30:19
◼
►
on that never happens i'm usually
00:30:20
◼
►
sometimes there's 30 seconds of latency
00:30:22
◼
►
between one client or another with dms
00:30:24
◼
►
they're not real time but they're not to
00:30:28
◼
►
34 minutes apart
00:30:30
◼
►
just because you're on a different
00:30:31
◼
►
client then i logged into twitter.com
00:30:33
◼
►
the website which i think is I think
00:30:36
◼
►
most people agree is probably the
00:30:37
◼
►
canonical interface to Twitter ya want
00:30:39
◼
►
to go there when I have a doubt right
00:30:41
◼
►
and so I went there and the DM wasn't
00:30:43
◼
►
there either and now I'm thinking now
00:30:44
◼
►
this is weird this is really now I'm
00:30:46
◼
►
like this is crazy but then within like
00:30:49
◼
►
another two three four minutes it did
00:30:51
◼
►
show up everywhere
00:30:52
◼
►
yeah I've seen that with the ends like I
00:30:54
◼
►
I'm frequently very frequently pretty
00:30:56
◼
►
much all the time get the email i saw
00:30:58
◼
►
the emails for dams get the email
00:31:00
◼
►
response that I've got a DM before I see
00:31:02
◼
►
it in most of my clients but yea bottom
00:31:05
◼
►
line is they David's there-there
00:31:07
◼
►
verified accounts account has a
00:31:09
◼
►
superpower that they contend dm's to
00:31:12
◼
►
whoever they want the three questions
00:31:14
◼
►
that are not about verifying you it's
00:31:17
◼
►
and it makes sense in hindsight it has
00:31:18
◼
►
nothing to do with that because they're
00:31:20
◼
►
not suspicious that i'm not that my
00:31:24
◼
►
accounts been hacked right
00:31:26
◼
►
they already been you know I mean all
00:31:28
◼
►
they asked me and it's so silly is they
00:31:31
◼
►
ask you a series of three questions
00:31:33
◼
►
which tweet is better and it's so
00:31:35
◼
►
obviously geared toward the assumption
00:31:39
◼
►
that you are some sort of pop culture
00:31:41
◼
►
celebrity know that you're like a
00:31:44
◼
►
pop-culture celebrity and it's like
00:31:46
◼
►
which tweet is better and one on the one
00:31:49
◼
►
side there's a fake fake Twitter account
00:31:51
◼
►
saying watching the Oscars like with a
00:31:54
◼
►
hashtag like washing the hashtag Oscar's
00:31:57
◼
►
on ABC loving the fashions on the red
00:32:01
◼
►
carpet and any other one is watch the
00:32:04
◼
►
Oscars last night and I've and then you
00:32:07
◼
►
hope you pick obviously the right answer
00:32:10
◼
►
is the one where you're doing it live
00:32:12
◼
►
and it then you click that and it says
00:32:13
◼
►
correct what you know tweeting things
00:32:16
◼
►
while they're happening is much more
00:32:18
◼
►
engaging with your fans than treating
00:32:20
◼
►
things after the fact also the question
00:32:22
◼
►
is if you have gotten these
00:32:23
◼
►
quote-unquote or wrong
00:32:25
◼
►
what would have happened 91 tonight I
00:32:27
◼
►
had a verified again I thought about
00:32:29
◼
►
trying that with the third one and then
00:32:31
◼
►
you know in the third one is the same it
00:32:32
◼
►
was like is a better note that the
00:32:33
◼
►
differences is a better to tweet with
00:32:35
◼
►
pictures or not with pictures it's like
00:32:37
◼
►
you know hanging out with something
00:32:39
◼
►
something and then there's a pic got
00:32:41
◼
►
twitter that something URL and the other
00:32:43
◼
►
one is just hanging out with someone
00:32:45
◼
►
someone I thought about obviously the
00:32:47
◼
►
one of the pictures supposed to be the
00:32:48
◼
►
one I thought about click any other 1i
00:32:49
◼
►
think that they just tell you the answer
00:32:51
◼
►
i'm guessing i don't think it's a test
00:32:53
◼
►
and they're not gonna let you in i think
00:32:55
◼
►
you click the wrong one and they say
00:32:56
◼
►
wrong it's actually better to tweet with
00:32:58
◼
►
pictures and now you're allowed to be
00:33:00
◼
►
that's weird like everyone first of all
00:33:02
◼
►
the verification process is weird
00:33:03
◼
►
because you like you would imagine
00:33:05
◼
►
they're going like sorted by a number of
00:33:09
◼
►
followers descending and they just got
00:33:10
◼
►
down to like the hundred case or
00:33:11
◼
►
whatever you're at right now because I
00:33:13
◼
►
started with like the 20 million people
00:33:15
◼
►
like Ashton Kutcher or whatever and
00:33:16
◼
►
they're working their way down to the
00:33:17
◼
►
poor timor guy or whatever his job is to
00:33:20
◼
►
verify counts like bar now really
00:33:22
◼
►
scraping the bottom of the barrel
00:33:23
◼
►
because they're they're done with the
00:33:24
◼
►
actual like real celebrities with
00:33:25
◼
►
millions and millions of followers and
00:33:27
◼
►
it down to like the mac nerd guys and
00:33:29
◼
►
then like so how do they know that this
00:33:31
◼
►
is the John Gruber candidate just
00:33:33
◼
►
because their twitter guys they're also
00:33:34
◼
►
happen to be computer nerds they know
00:33:36
◼
►
yeah I guess so I I can only guess there
00:33:39
◼
►
wasn't really any sort of actual like if
00:33:43
◼
►
at Gruber and run by someone for years
00:33:46
◼
►
impersonating me there was no no no i
00:33:50
◼
►
mean i don't know i don't know how they
00:33:52
◼
►
would do it i Meanwell verified as being
00:33:54
◼
►
cool like that was running my ears maybe
00:33:55
◼
►
a non-person you maybe just some other
00:33:57
◼
►
guy named John Gruber and I like you
00:33:59
◼
►
know all that all you're very like what
00:34:00
◼
►
do you even verifying because it's weird
00:34:03
◼
►
to me like if there is a famous
00:34:04
◼
►
celebrity internationally known
00:34:06
◼
►
celebrity like Tom Cruise you want to
00:34:09
◼
►
verify that the account that says Tom
00:34:11
◼
►
Cruise is really the account of tom
00:34:13
◼
►
cruise but when you get down to people
00:34:15
◼
►
who like everyone in the world doesn't
00:34:17
◼
►
know who they are what are you even
00:34:18
◼
►
verifying yeah i'm not quite sure what i
00:34:21
◼
►
think is you're about to be monetized
00:34:23
◼
►
that's what I think for the bills gonna
00:34:25
◼
►
be like hey John Gruber verified
00:34:27
◼
►
celebrity would you like to keep your
00:34:29
◼
►
verified account Twitter will consider
00:34:30
◼
►
sending I mean after that made that
00:34:32
◼
►
maybe welcome you know finally have a
00:34:34
◼
►
business model pay you just stop trying
00:34:37
◼
►
to show ads I
00:34:38
◼
►
I don't know the other thing i don't
00:34:41
◼
►
know and i haven't had a chance because
00:34:42
◼
►
it just happened a few hours ago but I'm
00:34:44
◼
►
wondering now if it's gonna be hot if
00:34:46
◼
►
it's if it's harder for me to reset my
00:34:49
◼
►
I don't know I got all I can think is
00:34:52
◼
►
that this has something to do with the
00:34:54
◼
►
Honan thing and that they like went and
00:34:56
◼
►
found people who are similar to mat
00:34:57
◼
►
Honan who don't have verified accounts
00:34:59
◼
►
and they're verifying yeah but like what
00:35:01
◼
►
how does that help
00:35:02
◼
►
yeah I guess I don't know it was like
00:35:03
◼
►
all that would do is like reinforced
00:35:05
◼
►
when the hackers take over your account
00:35:07
◼
►
like no let's totally John Gruber saying
00:35:08
◼
►
those terrible things its use a verified
00:35:11
◼
►
well presumably being verified as
00:35:12
◼
►
extremely rare i would guess you know
00:35:14
◼
►
sliver the tiny little sliver of a
00:35:17
◼
►
thousandth of a percent of Twitter
00:35:19
◼
►
accounts because you can't choose
00:35:22
◼
►
there's no way you know you can't go in
00:35:23
◼
►
and ask to be verified there is an
00:35:25
◼
►
exciting things like that they starting
00:35:27
◼
►
with the celebrities and just like they
00:35:29
◼
►
just start by followers time you're at
00:35:31
◼
►
your stone that did very tiny tip the
00:35:33
◼
►
edge of that long tail out there right
00:35:35
◼
►
but it's so rare that i'm wondering that
00:35:37
◼
►
if you call up with a account password
00:35:39
◼
►
thing and and whoever you get over helps
00:35:42
◼
►
people with with those type of problems
00:35:44
◼
►
with twitter that if it's shows up is
00:35:46
◼
►
verified it goes into like a white
00:35:49
◼
►
gloves department
00:35:50
◼
►
yeah or or they ask you the same
00:35:52
◼
►
question about which tweet is better he
00:35:54
◼
►
said shut up and accept my fast fresh I
00:35:56
◼
►
don't know yet do you like the dick bar
00:35:59
◼
►
yes or no that's one of the questions I
00:36:02
◼
►
asking what's your favorite hashtag yeah
00:36:05
◼
►
it goes into the speaking of make money
00:36:07
◼
►
has been to the apt dotnet thing like
00:36:09
◼
►
the same room same reason we're all
00:36:10
◼
►
desperate for something to happen there
00:36:12
◼
►
is because we don't see Twitter being
00:36:14
◼
►
able or willing to make money in the way
00:36:16
◼
►
we think they should and like I made a
00:36:18
◼
►
joke about to verify account costing you
00:36:20
◼
►
money but like isn't that isn't that how
00:36:22
◼
►
you would prefer to pay for Twitter yeah
00:36:24
◼
►
versus having to see ads yeah or
00:36:27
◼
►
something for all third-party clients
00:36:29
◼
►
dying and we got to make that choice
00:36:30
◼
►
Yusei you pay in a second
00:36:32
◼
►
I was on the fence with ideas i signed
00:36:35
◼
►
up for apt on that soon after it was
00:36:36
◼
►
announced I became a backer but I was on
00:36:39
◼
►
the fence about promoting and daring
00:36:41
◼
►
fireball but i just did right before we
00:36:42
◼
►
started with recording tonight I
00:36:44
◼
►
actually linked up and encourage people
00:36:47
◼
►
to sign up because they saw their spam
00:36:49
◼
►
email got you
00:36:51
◼
►
and that actually i did that actually
00:36:53
◼
►
had nothing to do with that I've
00:36:54
◼
►
actually been watching it at the writer
00:36:58
◼
►
forget that long ago they launched it
00:36:59
◼
►
but I've been watching it and thinking
00:37:01
◼
►
if it gets close maybe i'll see if i can
00:37:04
◼
►
help him out a little but I my guy and I
00:37:06
◼
►
know I've helped Kickstarter projects
00:37:08
◼
►
out before I don't think that I can even
00:37:10
◼
►
come close to help manage that the day
00:37:12
◼
►
they're like 300,000 dollars short of
00:37:14
◼
►
this is the email setup everybody who
00:37:16
◼
►
currently back to service got three of
00:37:18
◼
►
their friends to sign out it will make
00:37:19
◼
►
it and that's that's a tall order with a
00:37:22
◼
►
few days to go
00:37:23
◼
►
I and I don't know what they're gonna do
00:37:27
◼
►
it's a weird thing and I know that
00:37:29
◼
►
you've talked about it on hypercritical
00:37:31
◼
►
you did talk about apt now I know you
00:37:33
◼
►
type that counted and wood along with
00:37:35
◼
►
penny arcade and stuff
00:37:37
◼
►
yep and it is weird it's a weird
00:37:40
◼
►
hey it's weird because it's not even
00:37:42
◼
►
really Kickstarter they like built their
00:37:44
◼
►
own Kickstarter because they had to they
00:37:46
◼
►
weren't they didn't fit in the
00:37:47
◼
►
Kickstarter rules right
00:37:49
◼
►
is that why they did that in videos and
00:37:51
◼
►
the fact that basically we would have
00:37:52
◼
►
been a good start but we can't because
00:37:53
◼
►
it says that you can use Kickstarter to
00:37:55
◼
►
start a business and that's what we're
00:37:56
◼
►
doing so right that's that uh and you
00:38:01
◼
►
know it doesn't necessarily mean that if
00:38:03
◼
►
they fall short they're just going to
00:38:04
◼
►
pack it in and throw it out and not do
00:38:06
◼
►
anything I don't know what I don't know
00:38:08
◼
►
what their plan B is that was that I
00:38:10
◼
►
convinced friend of mine to sign up for
00:38:12
◼
►
it today in fact doing my part to get
00:38:14
◼
►
help them get reach their funding goal
00:38:16
◼
►
and what I thought the deal was and I
00:38:19
◼
►
didn't bother to check i guess i don't
00:38:20
◼
►
care enough is that if they don't reach
00:38:22
◼
►
their goal nobody gets charged like I
00:38:25
◼
►
pledged fifty dollars or whatever
00:38:26
◼
►
Brett's that just means only if we get
00:38:28
◼
►
our goal then we charge everyone's
00:38:29
◼
►
credit cards or whatever if we don't get
00:38:31
◼
►
a girl known lose anyway that's the
00:38:32
◼
►
secret Kickstarter is that it eliminates
00:38:34
◼
►
the risk that you're dumping your money
00:38:36
◼
►
down a hole it's like you're excited by
00:38:39
◼
►
the fact that they're going to reach
00:38:39
◼
►
their goal but if it don't ya you do not
00:38:41
◼
►
add any money that was one of the
00:38:44
◼
►
interesting things about the penny
00:38:45
◼
►
arcade thing is that there there big
00:38:46
◼
►
goal was like so far down but to be
00:38:49
◼
►
fully funded it was like 250 k and they
00:38:50
◼
►
reach that like in the first day or two
00:38:52
◼
►
right that's not what everybody wanted
00:38:53
◼
►
to like as soon as they reach that first
00:38:55
◼
►
one that everyone's money is gone and
00:38:57
◼
►
then people are really motivated to you
00:38:59
◼
►
know i would rather have while this
00:39:01
◼
►
audacious goal lets everyone put their
00:39:02
◼
►
money towards it and if we get it will
00:39:04
◼
►
be so excited
00:39:04
◼
►
that we don't care we almost got charge
00:39:06
◼
►
versus you know everyone give me your
00:39:08
◼
►
money and i would like five hundred
00:39:09
◼
►
thousand dollars but if i reach thousand
00:39:11
◼
►
dollars you're all getting charged that
00:39:13
◼
►
scares people away
00:39:14
◼
►
I should probably revise my my little
00:39:16
◼
►
write-up and emphasize that part that
00:39:18
◼
►
yeah it kicking in 50 bucks is is
00:39:21
◼
►
definitely not in it you know 50 bucks
00:39:23
◼
►
is not a cup of coffee that's that's a
00:39:24
◼
►
significant you know right
00:39:26
◼
►
no i mean i don't know maybe there's
00:39:28
◼
►
somebody out there i guess there's some
00:39:29
◼
►
people who throw 50 bucks around like
00:39:31
◼
►
loose change but you know 50 bucks to me
00:39:33
◼
►
is something you really think about what
00:39:37
◼
►
your it is sort of no risk in terms of
00:39:39
◼
►
you're only going to get charged if
00:39:40
◼
►
you're going to get a app.net service
00:39:44
◼
►
that will work
00:39:45
◼
►
you're not going to throw your fifty
00:39:47
◼
►
dollars in and who they fell short your
00:39:49
◼
►
fifty dollars is gone and you don't even
00:39:51
◼
►
get the abdominal well you before you
00:39:53
◼
►
write that up you should actually look
00:39:54
◼
►
it up because i didn't bother looking it
00:39:55
◼
►
up either as you go to their website and
00:39:57
◼
►
look at the little fine print and it
00:39:58
◼
►
says what actually happens here and the
00:39:59
◼
►
thing is even if they're fully funded
00:40:01
◼
►
and they get 500k that still doesn't
00:40:03
◼
►
guarantee that their service will ever
00:40:05
◼
►
come to a hill of beans you know like
00:40:06
◼
►
that they could make the service and
00:40:07
◼
►
then no one shows up and it just kind of
00:40:09
◼
►
fizzled away to the book but the fact
00:40:11
◼
►
that we're all willing to put money
00:40:12
◼
►
behind this thing is made it we want not
00:40:15
◼
►
so much that we want something like this
00:40:17
◼
►
but it's like we wish Twitter had a
00:40:19
◼
►
monetization strategy that made us feel
00:40:21
◼
►
more comfortable we all hate this scary
00:40:23
◼
►
stuff with the third-party clients going
00:40:24
◼
►
away we don't like ads we didn't like
00:40:27
◼
►
the dick bar like this so much about
00:40:29
◼
►
Twitter that just bugging us the that
00:40:31
◼
►
the way that in all of their first
00:40:33
◼
►
clarity party interfaces the web their
00:40:35
◼
►
apps and everything where they're
00:40:36
◼
►
they're putting all this emphasis on the
00:40:38
◼
►
the trends in and also those that card
00:40:42
◼
►
interface where like you have expanded
00:40:44
◼
►
tweets with all sorts of other day I
00:40:46
◼
►
right we're all of a sudden one tweet
00:40:47
◼
►
can take up like the whole length of
00:40:49
◼
►
your screen you know it's not a little
00:40:50
◼
►
miniature webpage right that's not what
00:40:53
◼
►
we want out of that all right the only
00:40:54
◼
►
time I want that is when merlin mann
00:40:55
◼
►
tweets1 with a bunch of returns for his
00:40:58
◼
►
like once once a month i'm going to put
00:41:00
◼
►
40 carriage returns in here before the
00:41:02
◼
►
punchline tweet
00:41:04
◼
►
yeah he liked the vertical space is it
00:41:08
◼
►
small man they may become well and the
00:41:09
◼
►
big difference there is actually a big
00:41:11
◼
►
difference in there no joking aside
00:41:12
◼
►
which is that if if that gag from
00:41:14
◼
►
it really annoys you enough you just
00:41:16
◼
►
want to follow your one click away from
00:41:18
◼
►
monday on follow button is right there
00:41:20
◼
►
whereas when when promoted tweets and
00:41:23
◼
►
embedded what do they call them cards
00:41:25
◼
►
whatever they call think it's called
00:41:26
◼
►
cards right if they annoy you with tough
00:41:29
◼
►
you know that's coming right out of that
00:41:31
◼
►
Twitter HQ I think the cars are also for
00:41:34
◼
►
like so you have someone who you follow
00:41:35
◼
►
and they post they say check out this
00:41:38
◼
►
funny youtube video instead of that
00:41:40
◼
►
being hot like a two-line text email
00:41:42
◼
►
with a link now little embed the YouTube
00:41:44
◼
►
video right there in your timeline if
00:41:47
◼
►
you're using one of their clients and
00:41:49
◼
►
you're like I don't want like I like
00:41:50
◼
►
that guy like his links i like the
00:41:52
◼
►
videos he provides but I don't want that
00:41:53
◼
►
video embedded into start downloading
00:41:55
◼
►
and taking up seven inches of vertical
00:41:57
◼
►
screen space on my device like that's
00:41:59
◼
►
not how I want to consume store because
00:42:01
◼
►
that just start like what if they start
00:42:03
◼
►
previewing all web pages that way that
00:42:05
◼
►
people are riding less than a hundred
00:42:07
◼
►
forty characters and what they're
00:42:08
◼
►
producing is you know on an iPad an
00:42:10
◼
►
entire screen full of crap it's like I
00:42:11
◼
►
will tap the link if i want to see it
00:42:13
◼
►
don't inline it like that type of
00:42:15
◼
►
interface where individual websites pay
00:42:18
◼
►
to have tweets that reference their urls
00:42:20
◼
►
expand into this big monster thing like
00:42:22
◼
►
say IMDb pay them at any time ever
00:42:23
◼
►
mentioned Tom Crean crews put four
00:42:26
◼
►
inches of information about Tom Cruise
00:42:27
◼
►
and a little head shot and links to
00:42:28
◼
►
other stuff underneath it and like you
00:42:30
◼
►
don't unfollow somebody because they
00:42:32
◼
►
mentioned Tom Cruise but now all the
00:42:33
◼
►
tweets are annoying how you because they
00:42:35
◼
►
because of this IMDb connection that
00:42:37
◼
►
that's the stories monetization strategy
00:42:38
◼
►
don't charge the customers charge these
00:42:40
◼
►
websites to crap everyone else's
00:42:42
◼
►
timeline but their stuff right and I
00:42:46
◼
►
like you know there's certain ways that
00:42:48
◼
►
tweet tweet obviously even in the
00:42:50
◼
►
third-party clients that we like they've
00:42:52
◼
►
they've grown past just pure text like
00:42:57
◼
►
most and most of the clients i know of
00:42:59
◼
►
like if you embed a picture from known
00:43:00
◼
►
services the picture can be right there
00:43:03
◼
►
in the tweet but they don't show you the
00:43:04
◼
►
whole thing it's always like a thumbnail
00:43:06
◼
►
right at least the ones I use like tweet
00:43:08
◼
►
button and i just used to it but really
00:43:11
◼
►
bad and that's up to the client software
00:43:13
◼
►
writer its object and soothing it's up
00:43:15
◼
►
to the client software and they can add
00:43:17
◼
►
features to Like Tweet pod and i think
00:43:19
◼
►
but i think like you know I think
00:43:21
◼
►
Tweety's to do this and Twitter's client
00:43:23
◼
►
so just show a little thumbnail of the
00:43:25
◼
►
if you want to see it you tap it and
00:43:26
◼
►
then you see a big but that way if
00:43:28
◼
►
you're just scrolling through your
00:43:29
◼
►
tweets even a tweet with a picture link
00:43:32
◼
►
in it isn't going to take up more room
00:43:33
◼
►
than a regular tweet and that that's the
00:43:36
◼
►
tortoise big thing about making a
00:43:37
◼
►
consistent experience what that means is
00:43:39
◼
►
like in the current scenario if you
00:43:41
◼
►
don't like how Tweetbot put the
00:43:42
◼
►
thumbnail images because you it makes
00:43:44
◼
►
your timeline too big and annoy you try
00:43:46
◼
►
different client that doesn't do that
00:43:48
◼
►
right you have choice whereas consistent
00:43:50
◼
►
client experience means I know if the
00:43:52
◼
►
clients even if they don't get to choose
00:43:54
◼
►
how that appears we choose how it
00:43:55
◼
►
appears in all clients must obey like on
00:43:57
◼
►
this Twitter cards pages but Dave
00:43:59
◼
►
twitter.com / docs flashcards it shows
00:44:02
◼
►
it someone looking to New York Times
00:44:03
◼
►
story and the thing is that the tweet
00:44:06
◼
►
the show's that's a whole lot of people
00:44:07
◼
►
dot and then in New York Times short URL
00:44:10
◼
►
right but then underneath it has the
00:44:12
◼
►
headline the byline a picture a link to
00:44:15
◼
►
the new york times and the first
00:44:17
◼
►
paragraph of the story and the date the
00:44:19
◼
►
thing with you know like why if i want
00:44:22
◼
►
to go read that story i'll go read it
00:44:23
◼
►
but if every single client did that I
00:44:26
◼
►
mean I would not like that because most
00:44:28
◼
►
a lot of the tweets that I say you have
00:44:30
◼
►
links in them and I don't want to see
00:44:31
◼
►
the links in line like that and I
00:44:34
◼
►
wouldn't I would be very upset if I had
00:44:35
◼
►
no choice right well it would ruin it
00:44:38
◼
►
just would spoil what I think Twitter is
00:44:40
◼
►
a Mountie I mean it really would start
00:44:42
◼
►
to lose the whole appeal to me you know
00:44:47
◼
►
and I know that that that Michael sippy
00:44:48
◼
►
blog post from a month back or so that
00:44:51
◼
►
sort of gave everybody the chills about
00:44:54
◼
►
the direction they're heading with this
00:44:55
◼
►
where he reiterated that the way they
00:44:58
◼
►
see their developer relationships going
00:45:00
◼
►
forward isn't with developers writing
00:45:02
◼
►
client apps that show you twitter its
00:45:05
◼
►
developers creating a determine what
00:45:08
◼
►
they want to call it but it's this is
00:45:09
◼
►
embedded iframes more or less that you
00:45:11
◼
►
put inside tweets
00:45:13
◼
►
yeah it's like it's like a it's like an
00:45:15
◼
►
RSS reader only you do all you always
00:45:19
◼
►
have to use the preview pane and that
00:45:20
◼
►
like you don't have just a few of the
00:45:22
◼
►
articles right like you know every
00:45:24
◼
►
single thing you see expands out to some
00:45:25
◼
►
big blobby like it's basically forcing
00:45:28
◼
►
you to go to a web page every time you
00:45:30
◼
►
read a tweet that's and it's a way for
00:45:32
◼
►
the people on the receiving end of those
00:45:34
◼
►
links to shove their crap in your face
00:45:35
◼
►
like oh websites come and develop to our
00:45:39
◼
►
in anytime anyone references URL
00:45:40
◼
►
anywhere you can just shove a big giant
00:45:42
◼
►
square of stuff in their face but
00:45:43
◼
►
whatever you want there and will charge
00:45:44
◼
►
you money for that it's just terrible
00:45:47
◼
►
so for anybody out there and you know
00:45:49
◼
►
who's on the fence in his agrees with
00:45:51
◼
►
with me and and you John of that you
00:45:54
◼
►
just don't like the direction
00:45:55
◼
►
twitter is going with their relationship
00:45:58
◼
►
with developers and the way that they're
00:46:01
◼
►
the monetization strategy that they're
00:46:03
◼
►
clearly taking aa the only thing that
00:46:06
◼
►
you can do about it the one and only
00:46:07
◼
►
thing that you can do as a user that
00:46:09
◼
►
would have any you know sure you're just
00:46:12
◼
►
one user against hundred million who are
00:46:14
◼
►
using it but the only thing you can do
00:46:15
◼
►
is throw your support to some kind of
00:46:17
◼
►
competitor that's the only thing you can
00:46:20
◼
►
do that would have any kind of effect
00:46:21
◼
►
you know complaining about it isn't
00:46:22
◼
►
gonna do anything across when I talk
00:46:25
◼
►
about app.net I had all these
00:46:27
◼
►
pessimistic thanks to say about it
00:46:28
◼
►
because I don't you gonna get that
00:46:29
◼
►
feeling that the reason twitter is doing
00:46:31
◼
►
this is that the only people who care or
00:46:33
◼
►
nerds like us and maybe there's not
00:46:35
◼
►
enough of us to make a difference right
00:46:37
◼
►
now i do have that fear absolutely
00:46:39
◼
►
and even if there was enough of us like
00:46:41
◼
►
we said in the beginning and you know
00:46:42
◼
►
2006-2007 like Twitter was just nerds
00:46:45
◼
►
like us and there was a definitely
00:46:47
◼
►
different vibe back then but now if even
00:46:51
◼
►
if we got critical mass take over
00:46:52
◼
►
app.net got funded all the nerds went
00:46:54
◼
►
over there and they've had some sort of
00:46:56
◼
►
gateway and clients could read both of
00:46:57
◼
►
them in more like you can imagine a
00:46:59
◼
►
scenario where nerds are on app.net but
00:47:01
◼
►
like wouldn't you miss the the
00:47:04
◼
►
pop-culture celebrity people that you
00:47:06
◼
►
happen to follow on twitter not that I
00:47:08
◼
►
follow a lot of them but it would be
00:47:10
◼
►
weird like oh we're over there but
00:47:11
◼
►
everything else is happening in that
00:47:12
◼
►
other place right where is just become
00:47:14
◼
►
so pervasive like on television news
00:47:18
◼
►
even which drives me nuts for likely
00:47:19
◼
►
reads tweets and stuff like that but
00:47:20
◼
►
it's like that is the network for
00:47:22
◼
►
everybody and we'd be on this other
00:47:24
◼
►
little thing that just never going to
00:47:25
◼
►
get critical mass and even though it
00:47:27
◼
►
would feel cool and we have our own
00:47:28
◼
►
little thing would feel kind of like
00:47:30
◼
►
left out you know I'm that's kind of
00:47:33
◼
►
that I'm of two minds about this this
00:47:36
◼
►
the bias maybe it's the same type of
00:47:38
◼
►
thing where so we had myspace and
00:47:41
◼
►
friendster and also things and every
00:47:43
◼
►
time one of those look like it was
00:47:44
◼
►
dominant something else and came along
00:47:46
◼
►
then wipe it out now we have facebook
00:47:47
◼
►
and my big fear with facebook is unlike
00:47:50
◼
►
Friendster and MySpace facebook is just
00:47:52
◼
►
got too darn big
00:47:53
◼
►
and now it's like it's like
00:47:54
◼
►
too-big-to-fail like you something can't
00:47:57
◼
►
come on come along a wipeout facebook
00:47:58
◼
►
the same way facebook and myspace
00:48:00
◼
►
because it's reached some it's gone over
00:48:03
◼
►
some line is just one big and I'm i fear
00:48:05
◼
►
our twitter is the same thing is that
00:48:07
◼
►
even if something better comes along
00:48:09
◼
►
it's too late twitter twitter is just
00:48:11
◼
►
too darn big and it's going to take a
00:48:12
◼
►
really long time to kind of like Windows
00:48:14
◼
►
Windows got so big that didn't matter
00:48:15
◼
►
how much better something was you
00:48:16
◼
►
basically had to wait for it to become a
00:48:18
◼
►
relevant and you know the future to be
00:48:21
◼
►
immobile and Microsoft to not be there
00:48:22
◼
►
and then thats that's what makes windows
00:48:24
◼
►
go away it's not because Mac operating
00:48:26
◼
►
system was better and windows goes away
00:48:27
◼
►
it goes away because who cares about
00:48:29
◼
►
desktop operating systems anymore we
00:48:30
◼
►
only care about mobile and the people
00:48:32
◼
►
who wanted mobile will not Microsoft so
00:48:34
◼
►
is that what has to happen here for
00:48:35
◼
►
twitter and facebook to you know not
00:48:38
◼
►
nothing can defeat them until they
00:48:39
◼
►
become irrelevant
00:48:40
◼
►
that's scary maybe defeat is the wrong
00:48:43
◼
►
term my optimistic take on app.net would
00:48:47
◼
►
be something along the lines of and the
00:48:49
◼
►
comparison between commercial TV and hbl
00:48:53
◼
►
and the idea is that I think most people
00:48:56
◼
►
i think a lot of the people who are
00:48:57
◼
►
don't really like the the way twitter is
00:48:59
◼
►
going also have a lot of complaints
00:49:01
◼
►
about commercial TV commercials
00:49:03
◼
►
themselves the number of commercials
00:49:05
◼
►
that are shown and the just the way that
00:49:09
◼
►
that the nature of commercial TV sort of
00:49:13
◼
►
has a never-ending decade after decade
00:49:16
◼
►
drive towards lowest-common-denominator
00:49:18
◼
►
content right i mean i think a lot of
00:49:22
◼
►
the shows that are on TV now the reality
00:49:25
◼
►
type shows are not really even any
00:49:30
◼
►
they're not there they're even worse
00:49:31
◼
►
maybe then like the dystopian future
00:49:34
◼
►
oh my god the cop bad TV is from like
00:49:36
◼
►
Robocop write a great democracy al
00:49:39
◼
►
eyeballs right you know idiocracy is
00:49:42
◼
►
still a little bit out ahead but while
00:49:44
◼
►
the Americas Funniest Home Videos was
00:49:45
◼
►
basically out my balls ok and that was
00:49:48
◼
►
like in the nineties and right but as
00:49:49
◼
►
the years go on that the idiocracy
00:49:51
◼
►
future video cratic future doesn't seem
00:49:55
◼
►
as far-fetched it seems to the less and
00:49:57
◼
►
less far-fetched
00:49:58
◼
►
as time goes on well that's not the case
00:50:02
◼
►
where I think it's not so much that the
00:50:04
◼
►
entertainment is appealing to to base
00:50:07
◼
►
instincts because that that's been
00:50:09
◼
►
around forever and I think this the
00:50:12
◼
►
counter examples like a lot you know
00:50:13
◼
►
lost was on ABC and no one's going to
00:50:15
◼
►
say that was you know trashy reality
00:50:17
◼
►
show that's the opposite behind budget
00:50:19
◼
►
drill you know very a single artistic
00:50:22
◼
►
vision high production value stuff like
00:50:24
◼
►
that but that's the thing about people
00:50:25
◼
►
hate about TV is that doesn't wrench
00:50:27
◼
►
business model that hasn't kept up with
00:50:29
◼
►
technology and it's difficult to
00:50:31
◼
►
dislodge that so what we're looking for
00:50:33
◼
►
HBO is like one example is that late on
00:50:36
◼
►
HBO shows they can they can make shows
00:50:37
◼
►
for adults because they're not burdened
00:50:39
◼
►
by these legacy things when the Airways
00:50:41
◼
►
belong to the people and you have to
00:50:42
◼
►
license them through the government but
00:50:44
◼
►
then you have to have decency real like
00:50:45
◼
►
all that stuff that that burdens the
00:50:47
◼
►
network's doesn't burden HBO and so
00:50:51
◼
►
that's why you get content that's more
00:50:53
◼
►
appealing there because what can you
00:50:54
◼
►
really do it within the confines of the
00:50:56
◼
►
decency rules network television you're
00:50:57
◼
►
limited in terms of programming for
00:51:00
◼
►
adults because not all adults want just
00:51:01
◼
►
everything that's Pollyanna all the time
00:51:03
◼
►
I don't end and it's the same situation
00:51:07
◼
►
with twitter i don't know if there is
00:51:10
◼
►
what is the equivalent of being able to
00:51:13
◼
►
show nudity and curse and having people
00:51:16
◼
►
pay you directly lots of money
00:51:19
◼
►
what is the equivalent of a nap dotnet I
00:51:22
◼
►
think the equivalent is is more about
00:51:24
◼
►
the overall experience that you're not
00:51:26
◼
►
being badgered by promotional garbage
00:51:28
◼
►
and and that that there aren't it idiot
00:51:35
◼
►
i think i think maybe the aquarium is a
00:51:37
◼
►
hard analogy because it's a social
00:51:39
◼
►
network versus just TV broadcast but
00:51:42
◼
►
that you know there aren't going to be
00:51:44
◼
►
as many idiots on app.net is or on
00:51:47
◼
►
twitter because I you know at least for
00:51:49
◼
►
now it seems like the plan is that
00:51:50
◼
►
everybody is on their has to pay at
00:51:51
◼
►
least something to get in
00:51:53
◼
►
yeah so you're not going to have there's
00:51:55
◼
►
not going to be idiots there that you
00:51:56
◼
►
can assume that there's a higher level
00:51:58
◼
►
of discourse I mean one thing I mean
00:51:59
◼
►
it's super super early days I mean in
00:52:01
◼
►
fact I mean they just let me I got in
00:52:04
◼
►
on the Alpha i don't know how many users
00:52:08
◼
►
are in there already but i posted one
00:52:10
◼
►
was going to call it a tweet but I guess
00:52:12
◼
►
you have to call it a post to you know
00:52:14
◼
►
to app.net and the post idea was like
00:52:17
◼
►
8200 something so there's only been you
00:52:19
◼
►
know just with all the tests that day
00:52:21
◼
►
but you know whatever else i don't know
00:52:23
◼
►
how many of those are from actual users
00:52:24
◼
►
and how many or automated things that
00:52:26
◼
►
they've tested while building the thing
00:52:28
◼
►
out but there's only been eight thousand
00:52:30
◼
►
whereas twitter is up at like you know
00:52:31
◼
►
12 quadrillion you're already a thousand
00:52:34
◼
►
i know it should check out that I got
00:52:36
◼
►
the email to mike i'll check it out but
00:52:38
◼
►
that's not my user idea to my two is the
00:52:39
◼
►
tweet ID or post idea i've known my user
00:52:42
◼
►
ideas but I well I got the the equipment
00:52:48
◼
►
is that no ads rides on HBO and they're
00:52:50
◼
►
being you know
00:52:51
◼
►
no ads on the Twitter replacement thing
00:52:54
◼
►
and there's no ads and no fear of ads
00:52:57
◼
►
because everyone and it's not just a dad
00:52:59
◼
►
either because clearly the stuff like
00:53:01
◼
►
having embedded New York Times stories
00:53:04
◼
►
show up as a card instead of just a URL
00:53:07
◼
►
not really an ad but it's is there's
00:53:09
◼
►
there's there's a financial thing in
00:53:10
◼
►
there where they're getting money to
00:53:12
◼
►
sharing money with the new york times to
00:53:14
◼
►
have new york times story is treated
00:53:15
◼
►
specially and there's not going to be
00:53:17
◼
►
anything that you know don't know it so
00:53:20
◼
►
the advertising is the wrong word for
00:53:21
◼
►
that but it's favoring the interest of
00:53:25
◼
►
somebody other than me for financial
00:53:27
◼
►
reasons me a little visit their big
00:53:29
◼
►
thrust is like whatever makes our
00:53:31
◼
►
service more desirable to customers
00:53:34
◼
►
that's what we'll spend all our time on
00:53:35
◼
►
adding features making it you know make
00:53:38
◼
►
it like what
00:53:38
◼
►
whatever users of the service one well
00:53:41
◼
►
that's what we communicate with words
00:53:42
◼
►
you get the feeling that people on
00:53:43
◼
►
Twitter are not worried about what the
00:53:46
◼
►
users of their system want they're more
00:53:47
◼
►
worried about how do we get money from
00:53:49
◼
►
somebody to keep us in business before
00:53:51
◼
►
the VC comes out alright so my thought
00:53:53
◼
►
too is like HBO might know most people
00:53:56
◼
►
don't have HBO up everybody watches
00:53:58
◼
►
commercial TV but you know only some
00:54:00
◼
►
people have HBO i guess i'm guessing at
00:54:03
◼
►
this point I probably wouldn't abandon
00:54:04
◼
►
Twitter frap dotnet but maybe i would
00:54:07
◼
►
use app.net is the thing i'm logged into
00:54:08
◼
►
all day and only check twitter once in a
00:54:10
◼
►
lot but you know in the same way that
00:54:12
◼
►
when you get HBO it's not like your
00:54:13
◼
►
commercial TV turns off yeah the thing i
00:54:16
◼
►
worry and wonder about what
00:54:18
◼
►
there is like but they have all these
00:54:19
◼
►
that they've been hinting at the you
00:54:21
◼
►
know I wouldn't write third-party
00:54:22
◼
►
clients that are you if you're going to
00:54:24
◼
►
write clients don't write like a
00:54:25
◼
►
general-purpose one and you know like
00:54:27
◼
►
they've been making scary vague you know
00:54:30
◼
►
moves in that direction for a long time
00:54:32
◼
►
but they never actually pull the trigger
00:54:34
◼
►
and I kept thinking like how are you
00:54:36
◼
►
going to stop somebody you gonna I guess
00:54:38
◼
►
you can use OAuth on the API to reject
00:54:40
◼
►
clients but it's like yeah that's like
00:54:42
◼
►
an arms race in terms of like illicit
00:54:44
◼
►
Twitter clients and what I'm thinking of
00:54:46
◼
►
is like wouldn't if at that took off and
00:54:49
◼
►
was popular wouldn't there be you know
00:54:51
◼
►
hacked clients that merge Twitter and
00:54:54
◼
►
app.net into a single thing and you're
00:54:56
◼
►
some sort of proxy gateway or like I
00:54:59
◼
►
guess they had its within their power to
00:55:01
◼
►
reject requested our North indicated
00:55:03
◼
►
with some digitally signed but that's
00:55:04
◼
►
just that arms race of client-side offer
00:55:08
◼
►
versus serve aside you don't want the
00:55:11
◼
►
nerds on the other side of that to be
00:55:12
◼
►
your enemy i'm not saying it can't be
00:55:14
◼
►
done but it's that's a lot of time and
00:55:16
◼
►
energy fighting against that and really
00:55:17
◼
►
did they really care like what was that
00:55:19
◼
►
you came up with the have the stats for
00:55:21
◼
►
how what percentage of twitter users use
00:55:24
◼
►
third-party clients i late i asked about
00:55:26
◼
►
it and somebody who reads during
00:55:27
◼
►
fireball linked together fig figure it
00:55:29
◼
►
out do I i think if i think is his
00:55:32
◼
►
methodology was pretty pretty good eat
00:55:34
◼
►
he like slurp like a million random
00:55:36
◼
►
tweets from the adder so still some way
00:55:39
◼
►
that you can get that you can get like
00:55:40
◼
►
just show me like tweets to show me on
00:55:44
◼
►
random tweets that people are tweeting
00:55:45
◼
►
from around the world and grab like a
00:55:47
◼
►
million of them and analysed where they
00:55:49
◼
►
were from and it's you know that the the
00:55:51
◼
►
biggest hole in his methodology is it
00:55:53
◼
►
because it there's no other way to get
00:55:55
◼
►
the real information what people are
00:55:57
◼
►
using those see Twitter what you can do
00:55:59
◼
►
is you can see what people are using to
00:56:01
◼
►
post to twitter which is different
00:56:03
◼
►
because i would guess that there's an
00:56:05
◼
►
awful lot of people out there one now
00:56:07
◼
►
that it's twitter has hit like you said
00:56:08
◼
►
like CNN shows hashtags 24 hours a day
00:56:12
◼
►
I think there's an awful lot of people
00:56:13
◼
►
out there with accounts that have like
00:56:15
◼
►
two followers and they've only tweeted
00:56:17
◼
►
like three times themselves but they
00:56:19
◼
►
actually do you use twitter they like
00:56:21
◼
►
use it and just consumed just pure
00:56:23
◼
►
consumption just like something you know
00:56:25
◼
►
that they look at but don't post to
00:56:28
◼
►
but i would guess that would only skew
00:56:29
◼
►
it more towards the official twitter
00:56:31
◼
►
clients in the Twitter website
00:56:33
◼
►
yeah and you remember what the number
00:56:34
◼
►
was that was Attorney 23% person I
00:56:37
◼
►
remember thinking it was way higher than
00:56:39
◼
►
I thought it would be i think it was
00:56:40
◼
►
disclosed like 20 or something well and
00:56:42
◼
►
I would've thought would be like three
00:56:43
◼
►
percent and I think that but i think
00:56:45
◼
►
that's skewed by the fact that people
00:56:47
◼
►
who create content and have a lot of
00:56:49
◼
►
followers are more likely to to need
00:56:52
◼
►
something like that for example just
00:56:54
◼
►
isn't you know and I i have never seen
00:56:55
◼
►
the appeal of this software but i know
00:56:57
◼
►
that a lot of like celebrity people use
00:56:59
◼
►
tweetdeck that's the way for them to be
00:57:02
◼
►
able to like TweetDeck lets you have
00:57:04
◼
►
some chance of managing an awareness of
00:57:09
◼
►
people who are talking to or about you
00:57:11
◼
►
when there is so many people like the
00:57:12
◼
►
same reason you don't use unified
00:57:14
◼
►
timeline because you're at replies
00:57:15
◼
►
anytime you say anything we just swap
00:57:17
◼
►
your ability to read three posts from
00:57:19
◼
►
the people you you replied 2 and so like
00:57:21
◼
►
so i can you imagine if you had 20
00:57:23
◼
►
million followers or something they were
00:57:24
◼
►
just it just becomes untenable so I
00:57:26
◼
►
think Tweetbot is away like I don't even
00:57:29
◼
►
want to look at their replies and just
00:57:30
◼
►
doing like a bunch of cancer churches
00:57:32
◼
►
you know and then they can kind of get a
00:57:34
◼
►
big overall picture but yeah for someone
00:57:36
◼
►
who just wants to read twitter to a
00:57:37
◼
►
tweet that is not that's a tool for the
00:57:39
◼
►
twitter power user whatever you want to
00:57:41
◼
►
call them but there's also you know they
00:57:43
◼
►
are pulling the plug on some people I
00:57:44
◼
►
know that they just pulled the plug on
00:57:45
◼
►
Instagram connecting to Twitter mild I
00:57:49
◼
►
mean they got lost my facebook right and
00:57:51
◼
►
you know famously you know people have
00:57:52
◼
►
observed that Jack Dorsey you know
00:57:54
◼
►
Twitter inventor and CEO or whatever his
00:57:57
◼
►
title is because he's not the CEO but
00:58:00
◼
►
you know it's like chief designer at
00:58:02
◼
►
Twitter had been a active instagram user
00:58:07
◼
►
and hasn't posted an Instagram since
00:58:09
◼
►
their Facebook acquisition but
00:58:15
◼
►
ultimately though you know you could say
00:58:17
◼
►
well it makes sense that they pull the
00:58:18
◼
►
plug on you know somebody owned by
00:58:20
◼
►
Facebook or whatever but really it's
00:58:21
◼
►
like you said it's just an API you know
00:58:23
◼
►
if your API is there you know I mean
00:58:26
◼
►
they're going to play favorites like
00:58:26
◼
►
that I wouldn't be surprised if they
00:58:28
◼
►
started doing it to to desktop clients
00:58:30
◼
►
then i will end up with i would imagine
00:58:33
◼
►
if they do lock it down as similar to
00:58:36
◼
►
what Apple uses for push notifications
00:58:37
◼
►
and iCloud and everything where there's
00:58:39
◼
►
like cryptographic connection between
00:58:42
◼
►
are allowed to send push notifications
00:58:42
◼
►
and the only reason you're allowed us
00:58:45
◼
►
because it's you know configured through
00:58:47
◼
►
your developer ID and connected to your
00:58:50
◼
►
Apple ID and we have the information
00:58:51
◼
►
about you and your violated we pull the
00:58:53
◼
►
plug in you and the barrier to getting
00:58:55
◼
►
like up and running again is making a
00:58:57
◼
►
new fake apple ID from a different IP
00:58:59
◼
►
address and pay the $19 again and get
00:59:01
◼
►
everything configured and deploy a new
00:59:03
◼
►
version of an application from a
00:59:05
◼
►
different apple ID and make your
00:59:06
◼
►
customers download on the store and then
00:59:07
◼
►
we lock you down again and so like you
00:59:09
◼
►
could go cat-and-mouse like that or you
00:59:11
◼
►
could just try to crack the encryption
00:59:12
◼
►
somehow or whatever but I don't know who
00:59:15
◼
►
is more motivated to stop that like I
00:59:17
◼
►
haven't seen any cases of apples push
00:59:21
◼
►
notification thing being hacked or gain
00:59:23
◼
►
because i don't think that means that
00:59:24
◼
►
there's any financial gain for that it's
00:59:26
◼
►
probably not a financial gain for
00:59:28
◼
►
breaking through the prohibition on
00:59:31
◼
►
third-party Twitter clients but there's
00:59:33
◼
►
definitely a geek
00:59:34
◼
►
you know like there's no financial game
00:59:36
◼
►
but i really want to use a third-party
00:59:37
◼
►
clients so maybe the hackers are just
00:59:39
◼
►
motivated to find their way to crack it
00:59:41
◼
►
just for the hell of it now and I don't
00:59:44
◼
►
know but anyway I'm a little depressed
00:59:47
◼
►
because i was kind of a certain trap
00:59:49
◼
►
dotnet hopefully hopefully maybe you
00:59:51
◼
►
know maybe maybe they'll turn around the
00:59:53
◼
►
last five days
00:59:54
◼
►
I don't know what I think about when you
00:59:56
◼
►
think about when I was a mom wanted
00:59:59
◼
►
something like a point
00:59:59
◼
►
something like a point
01:00:00
◼
►
but after that is remember the whole big
01:00:01
◼
►
thing with a rowboat not rebel tweeting
01:00:02
◼
►
but the wanting for you to tweet and
01:00:04
◼
►
stuff like that yeah they were very
01:00:06
◼
►
quick to reply to him about my point
01:00:07
◼
►
when I talk about the show it's not so
01:00:09
◼
►
much that they did this because they've
01:00:10
◼
►
responded quickly and they were cool
01:00:12
◼
►
about it and everything that just that
01:00:14
◼
►
it makes gives you that doubt that like
01:00:15
◼
►
oh why did they think this would be okay
01:00:18
◼
►
like it makes you question their
01:00:19
◼
►
judgment doesn't make you question like
01:00:20
◼
►
their their motivation and like that
01:00:22
◼
►
they're clearly like they're they're
01:00:23
◼
►
motivated for the right reasons and they
01:00:25
◼
►
really want our goals are aligned with
01:00:27
◼
►
their goals really want to do the right
01:00:28
◼
►
thing it's like man how how did
01:00:31
◼
►
something like that slip by not that
01:00:33
◼
►
it's that important but it's like my
01:00:34
◼
►
being fooled here and do we really not
01:00:36
◼
►
share the same values you know right and
01:00:38
◼
►
what you're talking about is when you
01:00:39
◼
►
first signed up and I don't even know
01:00:41
◼
►
what they do anymore but when i signed
01:00:42
◼
►
up like what they are 2n you you part of
01:00:46
◼
►
the appeal of signing up with that you
01:00:47
◼
►
get to reserve your existing twitter
01:00:50
◼
►
username but the way that you did it was
01:00:54
◼
►
they needed you to tweet and I could be
01:00:57
◼
►
generated tweet that said something
01:00:58
◼
►
corny like I've supporting app.net you
01:01:02
◼
►
here's the URL and there's a hashtag in
01:01:04
◼
►
there and you tweeted that and you're
01:01:07
◼
►
tweeting that was what they're bought
01:01:09
◼
►
would look for to see that tweet and
01:01:12
◼
►
then say ok this guy did it and there's
01:01:14
◼
►
like a little like a little unique token
01:01:16
◼
►
in there too somewhere and then they
01:01:17
◼
►
would say okay so now at Gruber is is
01:01:20
◼
►
verified as a backer of app.net so this
01:01:23
◼
►
guy has the at Gruber name reserved for
01:01:26
◼
►
our thing too but that's cheesy I mean
01:01:29
◼
►
you know I don't I I never tweet
01:01:31
◼
►
hashtags and I don't hide
01:01:33
◼
►
I don't like anything like that that
01:01:35
◼
►
that asks you to tweet on their behalf
01:01:37
◼
►
and that like that's because I remember
01:01:39
◼
►
there was a one-time one of those the
01:01:41
◼
►
mac software bundles had a thing like
01:01:43
◼
►
that were going like you got like a free
01:01:46
◼
►
app if you gave him your twitter name it
01:01:48
◼
►
like instead of getting 10 apps for
01:01:49
◼
►
fifty bucks you got 11 apps for fifty
01:01:51
◼
►
bucks is even better deal and just give
01:01:53
◼
►
us your twitter name and people are
01:01:54
◼
►
doing and almost on your twitter stream
01:01:56
◼
►
was just full of like 37 people who all
01:01:59
◼
►
were promoting the such-and-such mac
01:02:01
◼
►
bundle and it's like man has so cheesy
01:02:04
◼
►
and just wrong
01:02:06
◼
►
exactly i had that thought to it really
01:02:08
◼
►
was like a a bad taste in my mouth right
01:02:11
◼
►
friends as like my first experience with
01:02:13
◼
►
and again it doesn't it didn't make me
01:02:16
◼
►
question that the point of the project
01:02:17
◼
►
or anything they say about it just made
01:02:19
◼
►
me think about like you you want to feel
01:02:22
◼
►
when you're supporting something like
01:02:24
◼
►
this that did they share your values and
01:02:26
◼
►
tastes I guess right and and part of it
01:02:29
◼
►
is just misunderstanding and experience
01:02:31
◼
►
with you didn't have to tweet i think
01:02:32
◼
►
even from the very beginning you didn't
01:02:33
◼
►
have to eat that corny signing
01:02:35
◼
►
promotional thing you just needed to
01:02:36
◼
►
have the few bits of information in
01:02:37
◼
►
there but like they didn't make that
01:02:39
◼
►
clear and now they're to the credit they
01:02:40
◼
►
didn't do this thing that so many sites
01:02:42
◼
►
do where they want you to sign up in
01:02:44
◼
►
this and you go to the OAuth screen or
01:02:46
◼
►
whatever it's like this company would
01:02:49
◼
►
like to read tweets in your timeline see
01:02:52
◼
►
your followers and as always like tweet
01:02:54
◼
►
as you and it's like he'll come back
01:02:56
◼
►
he'll know like who would ever say yes
01:02:59
◼
►
and yet so many people do because as
01:03:01
◼
►
soon as you check that you know two
01:03:02
◼
►
seconds later there's gonna be one of
01:03:04
◼
►
those blah blah signed up for the
01:03:06
◼
►
whatever and this this was this was
01:03:09
◼
►
better in that it didn't want the power
01:03:11
◼
►
to tweet as you which is crazy known
01:03:13
◼
►
would say yes to it just wanted you to
01:03:16
◼
►
tweet something you know on their behalf
01:03:18
◼
►
and part of it is like social
01:03:20
◼
►
promotional like meaning like if we
01:03:22
◼
►
could just get all these guys tweet to
01:03:23
◼
►
each other but it was so corny and like
01:03:25
◼
►
that's why I was so shocked to see it
01:03:26
◼
►
from I think you and marcos like someone
01:03:28
◼
►
hack their account because i know you
01:03:30
◼
►
guys don't stand there are things that
01:03:31
◼
►
they let you tweet is you it's funny I
01:03:33
◼
►
got a couple and I oh you're not the
01:03:35
◼
►
only one I got a couple of like hey
01:03:36
◼
►
whats your twitter account act like just
01:03:38
◼
►
not i'm not a bunch but like at least
01:03:39
◼
►
you know more than more than one that I
01:03:41
◼
►
got like a back two or three like dude
01:03:43
◼
►
is your twitter account act i'm a
01:03:46
◼
►
guy-guy English like his came out and he
01:03:49
◼
►
immediately like tweeted an apology is
01:03:51
◼
►
I'm really starting at that last week
01:03:53
◼
►
but I I'm kind of hoping to see this
01:03:55
◼
►
yeah like apologized on both his and
01:03:58
◼
►
app.net behalf about a time I by the
01:04:01
◼
►
time i decided to funded I'd seen all
01:04:03
◼
►
you guys do this and I had read enough
01:04:06
◼
►
about the backlash you know that you
01:04:07
◼
►
didn't have to tweet what they told you
01:04:09
◼
►
to eat so I just replace that text with
01:04:11
◼
►
something scolding them for doing this
01:04:12
◼
►
and so that and my tweets so your tweet
01:04:18
◼
►
is like one of your tweets featured on
01:04:20
◼
►
the homepage my tweet is not
01:04:22
◼
►
but I still but like I said I still
01:04:24
◼
►
funded them because I i want the same
01:04:26
◼
►
thing that they want and no one else is
01:04:28
◼
►
like this this was talking about earlier
01:04:30
◼
►
today when i was talking to my friend
01:04:31
◼
►
and trying to convince him to fund this
01:04:33
◼
►
yeah is it's kind of weird to me that
01:04:36
◼
►
like what we we want this thing but the
01:04:39
◼
►
traditional way is I guess you max out
01:04:42
◼
►
all your credit cards you get a business
01:04:44
◼
►
loan or you launch it at beings
01:04:46
◼
►
partially supported by some existing
01:04:47
◼
►
line of business is this
01:04:49
◼
►
we're in this weird time period where
01:04:50
◼
►
the thing to do is not to do any of
01:04:53
◼
►
those other traditional ways of starting
01:04:55
◼
►
up a business that requires capital in
01:04:56
◼
►
time like you know we need a certain
01:04:58
◼
►
amount of time to make this product to
01:05:01
◼
►
try to get you know we're going to start
01:05:02
◼
►
a business and we're gonna start from
01:05:03
◼
►
nothing so you need seed capital you
01:05:04
◼
►
need to go into massive debt
01:05:06
◼
►
those are the traditional ways to do it
01:05:07
◼
►
now we have this new way which is hey
01:05:09
◼
►
there's a bunch of other people who
01:05:09
◼
►
wanted to get the money up front and
01:05:12
◼
►
it's exciting and interesting and it's
01:05:13
◼
►
the Kickstarter phenomenon but part of
01:05:15
◼
►
me says isn't there someone who wants to
01:05:17
◼
►
do something I app.net who either has
01:05:19
◼
►
the the capital to do it or like can be
01:05:22
◼
►
a business that can be funded in
01:05:23
◼
►
traditional ways to I guess the
01:05:25
◼
►
traditional way stuck like getting a
01:05:26
◼
►
business loan Sox maxing out your credit
01:05:28
◼
►
cards i can imagine that sucking too but
01:05:30
◼
►
so many businesses but had been started
01:05:32
◼
►
that way or start from nothing like grad
01:05:34
◼
►
students who have crappy retail jobs
01:05:37
◼
►
doing it in their spare time until it
01:05:38
◼
►
takes off like there's so many other
01:05:40
◼
►
ways that businesses start I don't like
01:05:42
◼
►
feeling like oh that doesn't make it
01:05:44
◼
►
well that was the one way this could
01:05:45
◼
►
have happened there's so many other ways
01:05:46
◼
►
I feel like this could happen i'm not
01:05:48
◼
►
that I wish them you know don't wish
01:05:50
◼
►
them well but if this doesn't make it i
01:05:53
◼
►
hope i hope someone else out there and
01:05:55
◼
►
looks at this and says well there's a
01:05:57
◼
►
lot of people who want to give money to
01:05:58
◼
►
make this happen
01:05:59
◼
►
maybe the same people will say all right
01:06:01
◼
►
well we got to give all this money back
01:06:02
◼
►
over here we can't charge these people
01:06:04
◼
►
but maybe we find some other way to do
01:06:06
◼
►
this because clearly there's you know
01:06:07
◼
►
whatever two hundred thousand dollars
01:06:08
◼
►
worth of people who think this is a good
01:06:10
◼
►
idea right any other thing too is it
01:06:12
◼
►
really does require some imagination
01:06:14
◼
►
upfront to imagine that it could be how
01:06:16
◼
►
it could make the world a better place
01:06:18
◼
►
if it existed whereas once it was off
01:06:20
◼
►
the ground and there were I mean and and
01:06:23
◼
►
clearly like you know if they're already
01:06:24
◼
►
even if they don't raise another dollar
01:06:26
◼
►
they've already got two hundred and
01:06:28
◼
►
twenty thousand dollars raised or
01:06:29
◼
►
something like that which it like 1,500
01:06:31
◼
►
bucks a pieces you know
01:06:34
◼
►
thousands of people that if there are
01:06:36
◼
►
thousands more people on there then and
01:06:38
◼
►
they were using it already
01:06:39
◼
►
people who are like maybe I should sign
01:06:41
◼
►
up to wouldn't have to imagine what it
01:06:43
◼
►
was like they could see will look here's
01:06:44
◼
►
you know there's people writing clever
01:06:47
◼
►
posts on this thing i can actually see
01:06:49
◼
►
the appeal you know it's a lot more
01:06:51
◼
►
easier to get people to sign up once it
01:06:54
◼
►
exists then before it exists
01:06:56
◼
►
yeah and I'd be willing to sell like I
01:06:57
◼
►
wonder if they like asked everybody and
01:06:59
◼
►
again i still have to look for something
01:07:00
◼
►
else I but they said look guys we didn't
01:07:02
◼
►
make our funding goal
01:07:03
◼
►
how would you feel about just giving us
01:07:05
◼
►
the money pledged anyway I would say
01:07:06
◼
►
sure go ahead and like I wouldn't
01:07:08
◼
►
begrudge the money because I think like
01:07:09
◼
►
whatever if if you get this thing out
01:07:11
◼
►
there and we start using it and you can
01:07:13
◼
►
actually make it cool then you can win
01:07:14
◼
►
based on your features like you know
01:07:16
◼
►
make a cool thing that I can show people
01:07:19
◼
►
hey check this out isn't this cool
01:07:20
◼
►
add features that Twitter doesn't have
01:07:22
◼
►
it doesn't have time to have or a oh you
01:07:24
◼
►
know or just make it a better experience
01:07:26
◼
►
and Twitter and it almost will be better
01:07:27
◼
►
if they'd waited to do this project
01:07:29
◼
►
until after Twitter screwed everybody
01:07:30
◼
►
and killed with third-party clients
01:07:32
◼
►
because then they'd get funding to tell
01:07:33
◼
►
ya I didn't I do think that I do wonder
01:07:35
◼
►
about that had that same thought to that
01:07:37
◼
►
and maybe just one more like a straw
01:07:40
◼
►
that broke the camel's back type thing
01:07:42
◼
►
like where the next big rumored breakup
01:07:45
◼
►
is Flipboard you know where the
01:07:46
◼
►
footboard CEO resigned from Twitter's
01:07:49
◼
►
board was on Twitter's board but now
01:07:50
◼
►
he's off and you know like a week or two
01:07:53
◼
►
ago as of a week or two ago and there's
01:07:55
◼
►
no Dustin Curtis reported it
01:07:58
◼
►
I've heard the same thing I can't
01:07:59
◼
►
entirely report rumors but I've heard
01:08:01
◼
►
the same thing that I like through the
01:08:04
◼
►
grapevine that that Twitter might be
01:08:06
◼
►
about to pull the plug on flipboard and
01:08:08
◼
►
i know that a lot of people i don't use
01:08:10
◼
►
Flipboard that much but I know that
01:08:11
◼
►
Twitter is a really good source for you
01:08:13
◼
►
hook up your twitter to your Flipboard
01:08:14
◼
►
and then URLs that are posted from the
01:08:18
◼
►
people you follow on twitter which is a
01:08:20
◼
►
really really high hit rate of things
01:08:22
◼
►
you're interested and show up as
01:08:23
◼
►
Flipboard articles you know so if they
01:08:26
◼
►
pull that you're going to lose a really
01:08:28
◼
►
good source for sort of the way that
01:08:31
◼
►
footboard can get serendipitous articles
01:08:34
◼
►
not just you know like that one of the
01:08:36
◼
►
things I think is appealing about
01:08:37
◼
►
footboard compared to RSS RSS just gives
01:08:40
◼
►
you things you know you want or as
01:08:41
◼
►
Flipboard can sometimes give you things
01:08:43
◼
►
you do enjoy but that you would
01:08:45
◼
►
and ask for and Twitter's a big source
01:08:48
◼
►
yeah I can't help but think i really
01:08:50
◼
►
think i think that if Twitter does that
01:08:52
◼
►
I think it's really gonna have my
01:08:54
◼
►
prediction is going to infuriate
01:08:55
◼
►
Flipboard users because i really do
01:08:57
◼
►
think that that's a big part of
01:08:59
◼
►
flipboard's appeal i think they're going
01:09:01
◼
►
to the calculation and say there aren't
01:09:03
◼
►
enough Flipboard uses for that to matter
01:09:05
◼
►
but i was thinking the other day about
01:09:06
◼
►
how I use Twitter and how it is because
01:09:09
◼
►
i was thinking of herbs someone's blog
01:09:11
◼
►
and I'm like why I wonder if this person
01:09:13
◼
►
has done a blog post lately and I was
01:09:14
◼
►
thinking you know why I don't know if
01:09:16
◼
►
it's like if they're doing blog posts
01:09:18
◼
►
and i have seen it's because they don't
01:09:19
◼
►
tweet their blog posts and twitter has
01:09:21
◼
►
started to replace RSS for me
01:09:22
◼
►
yeah therefore when i was living in that
01:09:24
◼
►
news bar all day I always know if
01:09:25
◼
►
someone you know someone posted a blog
01:09:27
◼
►
once every two months but i would see
01:09:28
◼
►
that post because it would come up my
01:09:29
◼
►
feeds but now if they don't tweet about
01:09:31
◼
►
i'm using Twitter like RSS and that's
01:09:33
◼
►
why burns me so much but to think that
01:09:35
◼
►
would go away because it's replaced or
01:09:37
◼
►
mostly supplanted so many other services
01:09:39
◼
►
in my life and they're going to change
01:09:41
◼
►
the rules on me and I'm going to be like
01:09:43
◼
►
my refers a daring fireball the referral
01:09:45
◼
►
listings are almost useless anymore
01:09:47
◼
►
because it's all just twitter
01:09:48
◼
►
yeah i mean it doesn't matter it's not
01:09:50
◼
►
like you know everything i posted during
01:09:52
◼
►
fireball the number-one refer to it by
01:09:54
◼
►
far as Twitter and I don't even know how
01:09:57
◼
►
much it's not Jedi presumably a lot of
01:09:59
◼
►
it is the daring fireball dat during
01:10:02
◼
►
firewall account Twitter account but it
01:10:03
◼
►
if I actually like poke into it it's you
01:10:05
◼
►
know it's other people of course you
01:10:07
◼
►
know people who just like you know
01:10:08
◼
►
here's an article that daring fireball
01:10:09
◼
►
huge huge huge source and i can tell you
01:10:12
◼
►
that that that's basically how i read
01:10:14
◼
►
how I read daring fireball why do I
01:10:16
◼
►
follow the daring fireball candidate
01:10:17
◼
►
because i have to know you know like
01:10:19
◼
►
them i know that just go to the daring
01:10:20
◼
►
fireball side to read stuff the that the
01:10:22
◼
►
way I go there
01:10:23
◼
►
99.9 percent of time is the daring
01:10:25
◼
►
fireball account tweet something and i
01:10:27
◼
►
click on it and that's how I read it
01:10:28
◼
►
right like that's that's how it happens
01:10:31
◼
►
and I used to
01:10:31
◼
►
yeah I still subscribe to your feed but
01:10:33
◼
►
it's i do that for all these things like
01:10:37
◼
►
I subscribe i subscribe to twitter
01:10:39
◼
►
accounts of things whose feeds I also
01:10:40
◼
►
subscribe to and whose websites i also
01:10:43
◼
►
see only for sites that like you can't
01:10:45
◼
►
do it for like you know the verge or
01:10:46
◼
►
something is posting twenty million
01:10:48
◼
►
things everyday because that would just
01:10:48
◼
►
be ridiculous but for sites that update
01:10:50
◼
►
once or twice or you know five or ten
01:10:53
◼
►
that's how i see their stuff and if
01:10:55
◼
►
someone doesn't have an official twitter
01:10:56
◼
►
account like that person's blogs and i'm
01:10:58
◼
►
thinking that
01:10:58
◼
►
post anything i'll just forget it exists
01:11:00
◼
►
after a while yeah same here i do agree
01:11:02
◼
►
you know what let's take a break I i
01:11:04
◼
►
should do the first sponsor for response
01:11:07
◼
►
there in second hour and she's crazy you
01:11:09
◼
►
know what I swear to that the mule guys
01:11:11
◼
►
I was going to get this done in our last
01:11:13
◼
►
week's show is about an hour race anyway
01:11:17
◼
►
macworld super guides here these super
01:11:19
◼
►
guides the people at macworld that these
01:11:21
◼
►
guys they're my friends but they're
01:11:22
◼
►
really the best in the business when it
01:11:23
◼
►
comes to to cover an apple so many smart
01:11:27
◼
►
writers and editors and they don't just
01:11:29
◼
►
do it's not just the magazine in the
01:11:31
◼
►
website they've got a whole series of
01:11:32
◼
►
books and some of its compiled from the
01:11:35
◼
►
best information that they've published
01:11:36
◼
►
on the web a lot of his original content
01:11:39
◼
►
and they cover these topics in super
01:11:42
◼
►
good super deep depth and with the same
01:11:45
◼
►
sort of high quality of writing and
01:11:47
◼
►
editing that you expect from macworld
01:11:49
◼
►
and they're available just about
01:11:53
◼
►
anywhere you could want them you can get
01:11:54
◼
►
them at the ibookstore you can buy them
01:11:56
◼
►
directly from amazon at the kindle store
01:11:57
◼
►
you can get them from macworld if you
01:12:00
◼
►
want and Dominator who who writes for
01:12:03
◼
►
Mac we've got Chris Prine dan Frakes Lex
01:12:07
◼
►
Friedman course Jason snow
01:12:10
◼
►
I don't know just even work anymore i
01:12:11
◼
►
know he's got like a new job is the IDC
01:12:15
◼
►
whatever director whatever
01:12:16
◼
►
vice-president don't send Dan more'n i
01:12:19
◼
►
was going to forget was going to forget
01:12:20
◼
►
dan more on purpose and you blew it and
01:12:23
◼
►
of course serenity caldwell who I think
01:12:24
◼
►
not only right for them but also she
01:12:26
◼
►
also does a lot of the production work
01:12:29
◼
►
on putting these ebooks together and so
01:12:33
◼
►
their newest one
01:12:33
◼
►
no surprise and and ties right in one
01:12:36
◼
►
night with and haven't Syracuse on the
01:12:38
◼
►
show it's their total mountain line and
01:12:42
◼
►
five bucks five dollars it's all it
01:12:44
◼
►
costs and you get all the detailed
01:12:46
◼
►
information everything macworld knows
01:12:48
◼
►
about my online all the new features and
01:12:51
◼
►
46 box you just throw one buck more you
01:12:53
◼
►
can even get a bundle and it contains
01:12:55
◼
►
drm-free epub and kindle files and a PDF
01:12:59
◼
►
version you get it all
01:13:00
◼
►
drm-free other books in the macworld
01:13:04
◼
►
super guide series you might be
01:13:05
◼
►
interested in mac gems second edition
01:13:09
◼
►
Master iphone photography i add that you
01:13:13
◼
►
know what i should be done three bucks
01:13:15
◼
►
three bucks and it's all the everything
01:13:16
◼
►
you want to know about the iphone camera
01:13:18
◼
►
and photography they got the I've ipad
01:13:21
◼
►
super guide ten bucks the URL it's
01:13:24
◼
►
macworld calm / super guides i go get
01:13:29
◼
►
them they're great books I've read a
01:13:31
◼
►
bunch of I've gone through the tetteh
01:13:32
◼
►
the mountain lion one and I've learned
01:13:34
◼
►
new things and I can't imagine that
01:13:37
◼
►
anybody would except maybe maybe John
01:13:39
◼
►
Mack world.com super guys so your
01:13:44
◼
►
your-your-your mountain line reviews out
01:13:46
◼
►
how yeah and i know i know you've
01:13:49
◼
►
covered extensively on my record would
01:13:51
◼
►
have to go through it
01:13:52
◼
►
yeah I don't talk about it more this
01:13:53
◼
►
week I I I can't be the only i love it
01:13:58
◼
►
and i wrote this when I link to it as i
01:14:00
◼
►
know that for a lot of us we look
01:14:01
◼
►
forward to to release day of of Mac os10
01:14:03
◼
►
versions as much for and you know as the
01:14:08
◼
►
time goes on to because I get access to
01:14:10
◼
►
the seeds and I've developer account so
01:14:11
◼
►
I kind of know the software I'm not like
01:14:13
◼
►
a Joe user who needs to go to the apple
01:14:15
◼
►
store and buy it and install it
01:14:17
◼
►
I kind of know it's like the thing I
01:14:18
◼
►
have to look forward to as your reveal
01:14:20
◼
►
well the good thing about the reviews I
01:14:22
◼
►
won't screw up like your computer and
01:14:24
◼
►
make your skype break and do exactly
01:14:27
◼
►
it's it's a risk-free you just read it
01:14:29
◼
►
and they don't think about is that with
01:14:30
◼
►
these releases like you know that the
01:14:33
◼
►
initial mountain one real was a surprise
01:14:35
◼
►
because we didn't know they were going
01:14:36
◼
►
to you really release cycle and it
01:14:37
◼
►
seemed to come out of nowhere but they
01:14:38
◼
►
they paraded that OS around so much and
01:14:41
◼
►
just showed every possible feature of
01:14:43
◼
►
like there was nothing held in reserve
01:14:44
◼
►
for the longest time and if you want to
01:14:48
◼
►
know about this just from Apple's
01:14:50
◼
►
official keynotes you felt like you knew
01:14:52
◼
►
the whole operating system and then
01:14:53
◼
►
forget about the rumor sites that just
01:14:55
◼
►
download the seeds and show you
01:14:56
◼
►
everything so certainly it's not like oh
01:14:58
◼
►
boy I can't wait to see it read this
01:14:59
◼
►
review so i could figure out so I can
01:15:01
◼
►
see what's in this operating system
01:15:02
◼
►
because if you cared you could have
01:15:03
◼
►
found out it's all just you know okay so
01:15:06
◼
►
we know what's there
01:15:08
◼
►
let's hear some people's opinions about
01:15:09
◼
►
it and that's why I think people read my
01:15:11
◼
►
review but in your you want to hear all
01:15:13
◼
►
right we know about all these features
01:15:14
◼
►
but let's hear from someone has used it
01:15:16
◼
►
as good as the bad is it like is it work
01:15:18
◼
►
the way they say it should has a field
01:15:19
◼
►
actually use this thing stuff like that
01:15:21
◼
►
everything about doing this for iOS so I
01:15:25
◼
►
get so tired thinking about just to an
01:15:27
◼
►
indifferent like went during that the
01:15:29
◼
►
WBC keynote when they were going through
01:15:31
◼
►
like you know they did the mac section
01:15:33
◼
►
that the iOS section and during the Iowa
01:15:34
◼
►
section was like oh my god I'm not
01:15:36
◼
►
running a review of iOS because I'm not
01:15:37
◼
►
gonna say that I like the mac better but
01:15:39
◼
►
that's that's like where my history is
01:15:41
◼
►
like the mack is my first love and I
01:15:43
◼
►
have this i have this deep background
01:15:44
◼
►
and context to speak about iOS whereas
01:15:47
◼
►
the number of people who have been using
01:15:49
◼
►
are not i was Mac Mac Mac operating
01:15:52
◼
►
system the number of people who've been
01:15:53
◼
►
using iOS since day one
01:15:55
◼
►
this plenty of those people but how many
01:15:57
◼
►
people are still around who have been
01:15:59
◼
►
using the max and stay one have all the
01:16:01
◼
►
history behind they can talk about it
01:16:02
◼
►
and and like really
01:16:03
◼
►
the other thing about it is so much of
01:16:05
◼
►
my mac OS 10 reviews have become 10
01:16:09
◼
►
generally about or indirectly about iOS
01:16:12
◼
►
anyway it's like I get the comment on
01:16:14
◼
►
iOS even though i'm not writing a review
01:16:16
◼
►
of it but really it just comes down to
01:16:18
◼
►
like know but if this is my full-time
01:16:20
◼
►
job sure maybe i do an iOS review but
01:16:22
◼
►
it's not as if these these mac one's
01:16:25
◼
►
almost killed me as it is somebody from
01:16:27
◼
►
a practical standpoint I don't even know
01:16:28
◼
►
if it would work out
01:16:29
◼
►
i mean i-i know I mean nobody really
01:16:31
◼
►
knows how much work you put into it
01:16:32
◼
►
other than you but that is one of the
01:16:34
◼
►
things to with you having the podcast
01:16:36
◼
►
now with having hypercritical where you
01:16:38
◼
►
do comment on it as you are going like
01:16:40
◼
►
for the last several months it's been
01:16:42
◼
►
one of the recurring bits up front as
01:16:44
◼
►
houses that you know the review going
01:16:45
◼
►
and you give some background on it and
01:16:46
◼
►
you get an even greater sense of how
01:16:49
◼
►
much work it is to to do this and not
01:16:53
◼
►
just the writing but the fact that like
01:16:55
◼
►
you pointed out that there you've always
01:16:57
◼
►
copiously illustrated the reviews with
01:17:00
◼
►
screenshots and that it's really really
01:17:03
◼
►
hard to get good screenshots and like
01:17:06
◼
►
you've pointed out just stupid things
01:17:08
◼
►
like if you're gonna take screenshots of
01:17:09
◼
►
the contacts app will you
01:17:11
◼
►
you know you got to make sure you've got
01:17:12
◼
►
like a set a dummy contact setup so
01:17:14
◼
►
you're not putting your mom's address
01:17:17
◼
►
there which would let you get hacked in
01:17:20
◼
►
addition to you know violating your
01:17:21
◼
►
mom's privacy and then when Apple
01:17:25
◼
►
changes the you know the color of the
01:17:28
◼
►
leather in the address book themed that
01:17:31
◼
►
the contacts app uses now you've got to
01:17:33
◼
►
shots yeah like the worst part about it
01:17:35
◼
►
is that it's it's it's loaded on the
01:17:38
◼
►
back end where as no matter how much
01:17:41
◼
►
preparation you do you were at the mercy
01:17:43
◼
►
of their releases and so there's
01:17:45
◼
►
necessarily going to be this crazy mad
01:17:47
◼
►
scramble for the last build the
01:17:49
◼
►
second-to-last build leading right up to
01:17:50
◼
►
my doing release and you can't you just
01:17:52
◼
►
can't do that i'm not like I start
01:17:54
◼
►
preparing like you know months and as
01:17:56
◼
►
soon as I know the new cat named
01:17:58
◼
►
gradually like I'm that's where I'm
01:18:00
◼
►
starting like you can't use not like
01:18:01
◼
►
homework we like I did all my work by
01:18:03
◼
►
reading for the entire year and the
01:18:04
◼
►
first week of school and you can't do
01:18:06
◼
►
that you just you're just at the mercy
01:18:08
◼
►
of their release schedule and so it just
01:18:09
◼
►
makes it as a tremendous amount of
01:18:11
◼
►
pressure but there's the main problem is
01:18:12
◼
►
that it just takes me forever to do this
01:18:14
◼
►
like I'm not a fast writer like I don't
01:18:15
◼
►
know how these guys who like write for a
01:18:17
◼
►
just turn out article after article
01:18:19
◼
►
every day so it's not i can't do that's
01:18:21
◼
►
not the way I was not the way it works
01:18:22
◼
►
like blood sweat and tears just get you
01:18:26
◼
►
know and it's not because I go what I'm
01:18:27
◼
►
writing is so difficult and profound I
01:18:29
◼
►
couldn't do just a simple like five
01:18:32
◼
►
paragraph summary of an event it would
01:18:34
◼
►
still take me forever I don't know I
01:18:36
◼
►
just not I'm no good at that so it
01:18:38
◼
►
really is very painful for me to get
01:18:40
◼
►
this amount of content out and have all
01:18:43
◼
►
that be correct in fact checked and
01:18:45
◼
►
that's why i like the day the article
01:18:47
◼
►
goes out this that that the cake i get
01:18:50
◼
►
crowdsource corrections from everybody
01:18:52
◼
►
and the beauty of the web is that i can
01:18:53
◼
►
fix those things so that within the
01:18:55
◼
►
first hour or two
01:18:56
◼
►
almost everyone has been fixed because
01:18:58
◼
►
they've been found by you know people
01:19:00
◼
►
are put the wrong year on something or
01:19:01
◼
►
put the wrong cat named somewhere how
01:19:03
◼
►
long does it take to push the changes to
01:19:04
◼
►
the ebook ebook versions something I
01:19:07
◼
►
think that's going to be a show that I
01:19:08
◼
►
do like this week on hypercritical and
01:19:10
◼
►
talk more about the review and then next
01:19:11
◼
►
week I'm going to talk exclusively about
01:19:13
◼
►
the pain of doing those ebooks and that
01:19:16
◼
►
is just so terrible painful speaking of
01:19:18
◼
►
macworld super guys I i enlisted the
01:19:21
◼
►
help of my friend ran how does the
01:19:23
◼
►
ebooks over there
01:19:25
◼
►
I should have enlisted help but earlier
01:19:27
◼
►
in fact very early on months before I
01:19:28
◼
►
said you know what I should just pay her
01:19:30
◼
►
as a contractor to make this book for me
01:19:32
◼
►
because she knows what the hell she's
01:19:33
◼
►
doing I really does she really does and
01:19:35
◼
►
and I was like but you know what i
01:19:37
◼
►
should learn how this stuff works anyway
01:19:39
◼
►
I should I should do this on my own
01:19:41
◼
►
I'm not gonna say that was a mistake
01:19:42
◼
►
because I did learn a lot but I should
01:19:45
◼
►
have I should've caught
01:19:46
◼
►
I said her sooner i did contact some
01:19:47
◼
►
other people i knew new stuff by the
01:19:48
◼
►
books but that the thing that she knows
01:19:51
◼
►
is here's what you know is not here's
01:19:54
◼
►
what the spec says and here's how to do
01:19:55
◼
►
this in years at a with the best
01:19:56
◼
►
practices are but like here's where the
01:19:58
◼
►
bodies are buried on yon ibooks also
01:20:00
◼
►
you're getting this one particular
01:20:01
◼
►
problem yeah I had that problem six
01:20:03
◼
►
months ago and here's what you have to
01:20:04
◼
►
do to fix it crazy stuff like that you
01:20:07
◼
►
won't find any documentation and we're
01:20:09
◼
►
just like real world knowledge and so
01:20:10
◼
►
that that was painful experience on my
01:20:12
◼
►
part but the other part is you know if
01:20:14
◼
►
you want to make a correction you can't
01:20:17
◼
►
it's not like we go on our texting or
01:20:18
◼
►
just going to the CMS updating his click
01:20:21
◼
►
30 seconds later it's up on the web it's
01:20:24
◼
►
an ordeal so then you gotta do this
01:20:25
◼
►
batch thing we like all right uh I don't
01:20:27
◼
►
want to send an update until I've got
01:20:29
◼
►
like you're waiting for like them to
01:20:31
◼
►
slow down to a trickle but all the while
01:20:32
◼
►
you know that this universe egregious
01:20:34
◼
►
double-word sitting there in the first
01:20:35
◼
►
three paragraphs you just wish you could
01:20:37
◼
►
fix me like no no no just wait
01:20:39
◼
►
it's like it's like the Mac App Store
01:20:40
◼
►
updates you you know you've got a bunch
01:20:41
◼
►
of bug fixes and but the longer you wait
01:20:44
◼
►
you know then you put into review as
01:20:45
◼
►
soon as it goes review find some other
01:20:47
◼
►
crashing bugger like a cabinet should i
01:20:49
◼
►
wait should I resubmit that kind of
01:20:52
◼
►
delay just kills you especially with
01:20:53
◼
►
something like this would this is this
01:20:55
◼
►
is weird like a novel where it
01:20:58
◼
►
this is x it's practically news it's
01:20:59
◼
►
time sensitive material where week after
01:21:01
◼
►
its out no one really cares anymore so
01:21:03
◼
►
you really have to strike while the
01:21:04
◼
►
iron's hot and that's why through a
01:21:06
◼
►
series of bad things that happened the
01:21:10
◼
►
various delays in getting the first
01:21:11
◼
►
ebook up on amazon and then doing
01:21:13
◼
►
updates to it just was very painful
01:21:15
◼
►
right and it's you know it's sort of
01:21:18
◼
►
like which is shipping apps where apps
01:21:20
◼
►
shipping apps used to be really required
01:21:22
◼
►
a tremendous amount of attention in QA
01:21:26
◼
►
and focus and the stakes are really high
01:21:28
◼
►
because when you said go there was a guy
01:21:31
◼
►
at a factory who was impressing cds or
01:21:34
◼
►
before that was making floppy disks and
01:21:37
◼
►
you've got boxes and boxes of these
01:21:39
◼
►
things that take time to stamp and store
01:21:44
◼
►
and a ship and it costs money to ship
01:21:46
◼
►
now you want to do an update you want to
01:21:48
◼
►
do a 4.1 update and you're going to have
01:21:50
◼
►
to do all these you know you really do
01:21:52
◼
►
want to Q these things up so that you
01:21:54
◼
►
get as much you when you draw that line
01:21:56
◼
►
it's in there and then you know digital
01:21:58
◼
►
distribution nobody you know it's not
01:21:59
◼
►
like like well there-there's firefox I
01:22:02
◼
►
guess whose ships an update every day
01:22:03
◼
►
but most app-developers you know
01:22:06
◼
►
shipping stuff over the web aren't doing
01:22:08
◼
►
like daily updates to their software but
01:22:10
◼
►
as soon as they feel like you know what
01:22:12
◼
►
this is better for customers right now
01:22:14
◼
►
then then what they had before let's do
01:22:16
◼
►
a production build and get it out in a
01:22:18
◼
►
web you just did it without really
01:22:20
◼
►
thinking about it that much but the app
01:22:22
◼
►
store is sort of taking things back the
01:22:24
◼
►
other way where where exactly like you
01:22:25
◼
►
said that you kinda wanna you don't want
01:22:29
◼
►
to get a submission in there and then
01:22:31
◼
►
find another bug tomorrow because then
01:22:33
◼
►
you're going to have to start the whole
01:22:35
◼
►
thing all over again you're back at the
01:22:36
◼
►
end of the line you'll never actually
01:22:38
◼
►
release anything you just have to pick
01:22:39
◼
►
these arbitrary breaking points to end
01:22:41
◼
►
and then endure the unknown delay that
01:22:45
◼
►
comes along with that it's like going to
01:22:47
◼
►
the bank to deposit your money and every
01:22:48
◼
►
time you get almost up to the teller you
01:22:50
◼
►
get a phone call that says hey we got
01:22:52
◼
►
another check come to corrupt get out of
01:22:54
◼
►
the bank and pick it up and go get back
01:22:55
◼
►
into getting the back of the line
01:22:57
◼
►
only instead of checks its typos right
01:23:00
◼
►
yeah and you get like with a book or
01:23:02
◼
►
something where you've got a lead time
01:23:03
◼
►
then just give yourself three weeks to
01:23:04
◼
►
copyedit just like crowdsource do do do
01:23:07
◼
►
you know you can't but you can do that
01:23:08
◼
►
with news because right up to the last
01:23:10
◼
►
second information is being at like you
01:23:12
◼
►
know I have my call with Apple three
01:23:14
◼
►
days before the release like you know
01:23:15
◼
►
it's not a lot of time to spare their to
01:23:17
◼
►
you know what I added i added the entire
01:23:19
◼
►
facebook section like the last two days
01:23:21
◼
►
just because you know after talking to a
01:23:23
◼
►
polite they they felt like they want to
01:23:25
◼
►
promote and they gave me some good
01:23:26
◼
►
information on some like I let in like
01:23:28
◼
►
that's not it's a difference between the
01:23:31
◼
►
macworld website of the macro magazine
01:23:33
◼
►
and agro magazines got to be laid out
01:23:34
◼
►
written up copy edited it and just you
01:23:37
◼
►
know got going to the whole printing
01:23:39
◼
►
process and mailed out to people that's
01:23:41
◼
►
very different than the macworld website
01:23:42
◼
►
the macro website can can say oh there's
01:23:44
◼
►
a earnings call we were on there and
01:23:46
◼
►
calmly transcribed here's our summary of
01:23:48
◼
►
what they can do that that day when
01:23:49
◼
►
people want to read about it but there's
01:23:51
◼
►
not going to be a story macro magazine
01:23:52
◼
►
with the transcript of the earnings call
01:23:54
◼
►
because it's old news by men right now
01:23:55
◼
►
so it's just too different context
01:23:59
◼
►
I guess what I wish I don't know I like
01:24:01
◼
►
i said in theory i wish that you did the
01:24:03
◼
►
same thing for iOS that you do from a
01:24:05
◼
►
question just because I'm selfish and I
01:24:06
◼
►
enjoy it so much and it would be good
01:24:08
◼
►
but I would settle for somebody else
01:24:10
◼
►
doing it but now as i had this thought
01:24:12
◼
►
before we did the show that i was going
01:24:14
◼
►
to say that and then I thought you know
01:24:15
◼
►
what the obvious answers that I should
01:24:17
◼
►
be the one to do it because i don't have
01:24:19
◼
►
that I've got all the time in the world
01:24:20
◼
►
that sounds like a lot of work doesn't
01:24:21
◼
►
does sound like a lot of work you
01:24:23
◼
►
haven't done one of those in a while
01:24:24
◼
►
where you do like screenshots and stuff
01:24:25
◼
►
that you do them more like I did and you
01:24:28
◼
►
but you'd have like maybe you know seven
01:24:29
◼
►
screenshots and even just the minimum
01:24:31
◼
►
number of screenshots that either the
01:24:33
◼
►
the most screenshots I've ever included
01:24:35
◼
►
an article still lied to me it's a pain
01:24:36
◼
►
in the ass oh yeah because the night
01:24:38
◼
►
greenshot is a pain
01:24:39
◼
►
anybody out there who's never done that
01:24:40
◼
►
ever did the written up an article where
01:24:42
◼
►
you really illustrate it with
01:24:43
◼
►
screenshots that you intend for lots and
01:24:46
◼
►
lots of people to see and so you want
01:24:48
◼
►
them to look their best that you it's
01:24:49
◼
►
really really hard especially when
01:24:51
◼
►
you're doing something right
01:24:52
◼
►
a couple ones you've had about like text
01:24:53
◼
►
selection or like what you I elements
01:24:55
◼
►
are you trying to arrange the screenshot
01:24:56
◼
►
just so where you're holding down the
01:24:58
◼
►
mouse cursor and you have the selection
01:24:59
◼
►
going or context menu is up and you got
01:25:01
◼
►
a screenshot of the same thing right and
01:25:03
◼
►
you do end up thinking about things when
01:25:05
◼
►
you're paying attention to the details
01:25:06
◼
►
like where is the blinking I being
01:25:08
◼
►
cursory as a baby seal on or off
01:25:11
◼
►
do you want it in there and if you do
01:25:12
◼
►
any whichever one you want it still is
01:25:15
◼
►
hard to time you know all sorts of
01:25:17
◼
►
things like that
01:25:18
◼
►
yeah and then i take it again you want
01:25:20
◼
►
to take it again because it was mistaken
01:25:22
◼
►
the first one but now you've got a frame
01:25:23
◼
►
at the same way
01:25:24
◼
►
yeah they did that the desktop
01:25:25
◼
►
background that's the area and with all
01:25:28
◼
►
the transparent shadows it so difficult
01:25:29
◼
►
like if you miss something you can
01:25:30
◼
►
really erase it because everything is
01:25:32
◼
►
transparent including like a little edge
01:25:34
◼
►
of the windows so that takes it out of
01:25:35
◼
►
you and multiply that by a hundred and
01:25:37
◼
►
fifty i can only imagine doing an iOS
01:25:39
◼
►
I'd be you know hammered on the little
01:25:40
◼
►
you know home button power button
01:25:42
◼
►
screenshot combo constantly and then
01:25:44
◼
►
filling up my camera roll with all these
01:25:46
◼
►
iOS screenshots and then they'd all be
01:25:48
◼
►
at 2x on the big device and I gotta
01:25:50
◼
►
figure out how to display them that was
01:25:51
◼
►
another thing that was new this year
01:25:53
◼
►
which is like right about a quarter of
01:25:55
◼
►
the way through i realize you know what
01:25:57
◼
►
I should be doing all these screenshots
01:25:58
◼
►
and reading a resolution i don't know i
01:26:00
◼
►
didn't think about that from the
01:26:02
◼
►
beginning but but i didn't but then yeah
01:26:04
◼
►
i guess i was probably because I you
01:26:06
◼
►
know the retina macbook pro didn't come
01:26:07
◼
►
out until to WWDC so just wasn't on my
01:26:10
◼
►
I was like yeah people I i I'm writing
01:26:12
◼
►
about the Mac I some people read it on
01:26:14
◼
►
the mac i don't need you to X cream
01:26:15
◼
►
shots plus i don't have a Retina screen
01:26:17
◼
►
so i have to do that you know high DPI
01:26:19
◼
►
mode where I'm looking at this tiny
01:26:20
◼
►
little thing that's not even my screen
01:26:22
◼
►
is not even big enough to hold like the
01:26:23
◼
►
system preferences window and high DPI
01:26:25
◼
►
right it's very difficult to arrange
01:26:26
◼
►
screen shot of the Sun that mr. Magoo
01:26:29
◼
►
yeah and like I can't sometimes you
01:26:30
◼
►
can't even get the whole window on the
01:26:32
◼
►
screen right but then the file is so i
01:26:35
◼
►
started taking my screenshots and I DIY
01:26:37
◼
►
right and all these problems I'm like
01:26:38
◼
►
you know what how do i even display
01:26:40
◼
►
these on the rcms gotta do that you know
01:26:42
◼
►
one of the 17 techniques you can use to
01:26:44
◼
►
show reading images to the right people
01:26:45
◼
►
but not have everybody download them
01:26:47
◼
►
because it makes the pages too big and
01:26:49
◼
►
all that stuff and the the rcms just
01:26:51
◼
►
wasn't ready for because it was a new
01:26:52
◼
►
type of thing I figured out how to get
01:26:54
◼
►
it done on the ebooks but only for to
01:26:56
◼
►
pick two images one was the actual
01:26:58
◼
►
written a screenshot which shows up as
01:27:01
◼
►
reading a resolution on your kindle on
01:27:03
◼
►
your if you read kindle book on your Mac
01:27:05
◼
►
or on the iOS device or in ibooks and I
01:27:09
◼
►
did that for one image and almost killed
01:27:10
◼
►
me because I had to try the eight
01:27:12
◼
►
thousand different techniques do the
01:27:13
◼
►
work and i also did my author picture in
01:27:15
◼
►
the background reading resolution now
01:27:18
◼
►
that was that was enough right because
01:27:21
◼
►
there's no like easy way for you to do
01:27:23
◼
►
it every way is a hack because you've
01:27:25
◼
►
gotta use these bogus CSS selectors to
01:27:27
◼
►
exclude the old kindle readers and it's
01:27:31
◼
►
just it's a nightmare right so i can
01:27:33
◼
►
only imagine doing that for every single
01:27:35
◼
►
image would have required a much more
01:27:36
◼
►
robust solution then I had and-and-and
01:27:40
◼
►
but nike like maybe next year by next
01:27:43
◼
►
year while I have a retina macbook next
01:27:45
◼
►
year will be our CMS natively support
01:27:46
◼
►
read images where i can upload a 1x and
01:27:48
◼
►
2x and it'll serve the right one
01:27:50
◼
►
I mean if you if you go to one of the
01:27:51
◼
►
images are also my review and you shove
01:27:54
◼
►
the at 2x into the file name in the
01:27:56
◼
►
right place and load that image you're
01:27:58
◼
►
all of them you'll get a 2 X version but
01:28:00
◼
►
you just don't see them on the website
01:28:01
◼
►
I mean even doing the daring fireball
01:28:04
◼
►
have you been trying to make the retina
01:28:06
◼
►
version of your fav icon and stuff
01:28:08
◼
►
oh my god what did I spent a whole day
01:28:10
◼
►
on that right and that's that's one
01:28:12
◼
►
image the size of your pinky nail 16
01:28:14
◼
►
pixels 16 points
01:28:16
◼
►
yeah so in 10 points that's it
01:28:18
◼
►
particularly annoying one but like even
01:28:19
◼
►
just like you know that your logo at the
01:28:21
◼
►
top and stuff like that you have to come
01:28:23
◼
►
you have to kind of decide on the
01:28:25
◼
►
technique and the browser's haven't
01:28:26
◼
►
really settled on at the using image
01:28:28
◼
►
with source setter i do the lazy thing
01:28:31
◼
►
with the logo idea I did that I actually
01:28:33
◼
►
did this awhile back with the logo i did
01:28:36
◼
►
I think when iphone4 shipped but i just
01:28:38
◼
►
made it to axe or maybe it's even 3x I
01:28:41
◼
►
don't remember but I'm animated even
01:28:43
◼
►
bigger but i made it like twice as big
01:28:45
◼
►
and I just sighs it with the image tag
01:28:46
◼
►
and just said you know it's if it's 400
01:28:50
◼
►
it's really 400 pixels and then in the
01:28:52
◼
►
image tag that says 210 that does the
01:28:57
◼
►
right thing and just shot it means
01:29:00
◼
►
though but it doesn't mean know that
01:29:01
◼
►
inefficiently everybody gets the big
01:29:03
◼
►
version whether whether you're on a
01:29:05
◼
►
machine that that can has a retina
01:29:07
◼
►
display or not you're not it's not like
01:29:09
◼
►
you're running the Virgin I have an
01:29:11
◼
►
image heavy side so just doing I one
01:29:12
◼
►
image is probably had a big deal but
01:29:13
◼
►
just to show you how crazy the idea of
01:29:16
◼
►
books or the ebook version of the world
01:29:18
◼
►
is that it oh the advice for doing
01:29:21
◼
►
images and ibooks is not to put width
01:29:24
◼
►
and height and your image tags at all
01:29:27
◼
►
mm and will like when you have
01:29:29
◼
►
screenshots you like but no seriously I
01:29:32
◼
►
really want this thing to be displayed
01:29:34
◼
►
in its native pixels because i'm trying
01:29:36
◼
►
to show this is what it looks like on
01:29:37
◼
►
your screen and even when you have a
01:29:39
◼
►
redneck version that you want to tell
01:29:40
◼
►
them some measurements so it doesn't
01:29:42
◼
►
just say oh we're just going to take
01:29:43
◼
►
this image and stretch it to the full
01:29:44
◼
►
width of the current viewing device or
01:29:47
◼
►
book like no don't do that don't please
01:29:48
◼
►
don't stretch it for me because that's a
01:29:50
◼
►
big thing about my screenshots is why i
01:29:51
◼
►
was so happy when I got my start using
01:29:53
◼
►
pings is you want to know what like the
01:29:55
◼
►
new doc looks like i'm going to show you
01:29:56
◼
►
an exact pixel accurate representation
01:29:58
◼
►
of the new doctor jpeg compression no
01:30:00
◼
►
gift 256-color Thrones here's the actual
01:30:03
◼
►
pixels if I can't even tell you what
01:30:05
◼
►
with it is and you're just gonna take it
01:30:06
◼
►
and stretch it to the full width of the
01:30:07
◼
►
reader out of nowhere with that is like
01:30:09
◼
►
it just pains me it's like that's not
01:30:11
◼
►
obviously ebooks are not meant to not
01:30:14
◼
►
meant for operating system reviews with
01:30:15
◼
►
pixel art in them but that's what I'm
01:30:17
◼
►
making so it's reel-to-reel mismatch
01:30:20
◼
►
the web is a little bit better at least
01:30:21
◼
►
the web they do want you to write the
01:30:23
◼
►
the size you know in points or whatever
01:30:25
◼
►
and then show the 1x 2x version but if
01:30:28
◼
►
your stuff which is arbitrarily scaled
01:30:29
◼
►
that's that's very sad
01:30:33
◼
►
yeah thats its funny funny was not
01:30:38
◼
►
happening to you know definitely now the
01:30:41
◼
►
other thing too and I think like and it
01:30:44
◼
►
didn't occur to me until years in the
01:30:46
◼
►
current what this isn't the first year
01:30:48
◼
►
where I thought I wish that John or
01:30:50
◼
►
somebody we're doing what you know to
01:30:52
◼
►
iOS releases you know this this copious
01:30:54
◼
►
documentation opinionated documentation
01:30:58
◼
►
like telling a decade long story of the
01:31:01
◼
►
evolution because that's really what it
01:31:03
◼
►
is that mean that's the thing that
01:31:04
◼
►
really makes the reviews your review
01:31:06
◼
►
celebrated is its each one in and of
01:31:08
◼
►
itself does stand by itself and you can
01:31:10
◼
►
just read it and as if if you're just
01:31:13
◼
►
got on board with the mac now and don't
01:31:14
◼
►
care about what happened before you can
01:31:16
◼
►
just read it and learn something and get
01:31:19
◼
►
you know I appreciate your take on it
01:31:22
◼
►
but it's a it's a piece of a greater
01:31:25
◼
►
single work which is the Hall of them
01:31:28
◼
►
together back-to-back telling this like
01:31:30
◼
►
10 11 12 year old story at this point i
01:31:33
◼
►
guess it's like 12 years 13 is it 99 was
01:31:36
◼
►
the first of a DP 2 because I heart and
01:31:39
◼
►
then that's the genius is that you
01:31:40
◼
►
somehow had the foresight at the
01:31:42
◼
►
beginning to say i'm going to start
01:31:44
◼
►
writing these articles I don't know if
01:31:46
◼
►
you had the idea the beginning that
01:31:47
◼
►
you'll do it for everyone going forward
01:31:49
◼
►
but you had the idea right at the
01:31:51
◼
►
beginning you had two years before it
01:31:54
◼
►
ever even hit the consumers
01:31:57
◼
►
I mean did you get that we do is the
01:31:59
◼
►
first one you wrote the first release
01:32:00
◼
►
that there was there was Developer
01:32:02
◼
►
Preview one huh which I don't even know
01:32:06
◼
►
if I ever even ran that but I wasn't
01:32:08
◼
►
writing for our that all the first thing
01:32:09
◼
►
I wrote for ours was a review of the the
01:32:12
◼
►
book infinite loop which is still pretty
01:32:14
◼
►
good book about an early Apple history
01:32:15
◼
►
that was the first thing I wrote that
01:32:17
◼
►
was a 19-9 and then the next thing I
01:32:21
◼
►
said you know there's the developer
01:32:24
◼
►
preview to of this thing called Mac os10
01:32:25
◼
►
coming out was supposed to be apples
01:32:27
◼
►
next-generation operating system
01:32:28
◼
►
strategy haha yeah that number five in
01:32:30
◼
►
the series collect them all but I think
01:32:33
◼
►
it's kind of interesting want to write
01:32:35
◼
►
something about that and like us like
01:32:38
◼
►
did I think I would be silly 13 years
01:32:40
◼
►
later I did the cavalry in business 13
01:32:42
◼
►
years later I mean this was not you know
01:32:46
◼
►
ninety-nine nights pretty ipod right its
01:32:49
◼
►
post imac so there's a glimmer of hope
01:32:52
◼
►
and steve jobs is back but they've been
01:32:53
◼
►
so many next-generation operating system
01:32:55
◼
►
strategies and so much sadness and then
01:32:57
◼
►
this new thing they were doing the main
01:32:59
◼
►
reason i want to write about it because
01:33:00
◼
►
this new thing they were doing seems so
01:33:01
◼
►
unmasked like bosi was all on board with
01:33:04
◼
►
that like that it was kind of some of
01:33:06
◼
►
the same guys that was guess a was it
01:33:08
◼
►
was it was it looked like yeah that's
01:33:11
◼
►
what we think the next generation of the
01:33:12
◼
►
max look like the movie about next year
01:33:14
◼
►
like I know next but the ex's like
01:33:15
◼
►
that's not that's not mac like and right
01:33:18
◼
►
and it was just weird to me and so it
01:33:20
◼
►
seemed like but it also had a crossover
01:33:22
◼
►
with eunuchs which I was heavily into
01:33:24
◼
►
and I'm like well this could be
01:33:26
◼
►
interesting but it's definitely weird it
01:33:27
◼
►
seemed like something Mac users should
01:33:28
◼
►
know about because i don't think anyone
01:33:29
◼
►
was paying attention like hey guys look
01:33:31
◼
►
what's going on over here they're taking
01:33:32
◼
►
like next step and trying to make you
01:33:35
◼
►
know putting some weird Matt graphics on
01:33:36
◼
►
it but it still looks all be removed as
01:33:38
◼
►
pre aqua right so no one knew what the
01:33:40
◼
►
hell this is going to be a look like a
01:33:42
◼
►
platinum OS laid on top of next step
01:33:44
◼
►
with this weird badly behaving thing and
01:33:46
◼
►
none of your mac apps ran right and it
01:33:48
◼
►
was just if it seemed like something
01:33:51
◼
►
when people need to know about it and it
01:33:53
◼
►
even when i wrote about it i was amazed
01:33:54
◼
►
that people said wow I didn't even know
01:33:56
◼
►
they were doing this like people weren't
01:33:57
◼
►
following apple like they are now nobody
01:33:59
◼
►
was following gnome was like looking at
01:34:01
◼
►
every WC keynote is that they announced
01:34:03
◼
►
the WBC is that we're doing this thing
01:34:04
◼
►
called my first day when Rhapsody and
01:34:06
◼
►
that kind of fizzled which was based on
01:34:08
◼
►
similar technology and I actually doing
01:34:10
◼
►
this thing called Mac os10 and we're
01:34:11
◼
►
going to have enhanced quick-draw and
01:34:12
◼
►
everyone's like yeah like people are
01:34:14
◼
►
following it so I was the only person on
01:34:16
◼
►
the web writing about this at all
01:34:18
◼
►
you know because who else was even
01:34:19
◼
►
paying attention so perhaps it was a
01:34:21
◼
►
much more easily understood story where
01:34:24
◼
►
long story short the pitch on rhapsody
01:34:26
◼
►
was ok forget the mac OS just forget it
01:34:29
◼
►
that's old and then it was running the
01:34:31
◼
►
country ground now you've got this new
01:34:34
◼
►
thing from next week all the next step
01:34:36
◼
►
will just give it a new name now because
01:34:38
◼
►
the name never really know that will get
01:34:40
◼
►
rid of the next name / just call it
01:34:41
◼
►
Rhapsody will make it look better and
01:34:44
◼
►
you're gonna we're gonna replace in your
01:34:45
◼
►
next computer will be running the next
01:34:48
◼
►
version of what was next step
01:34:50
◼
►
more or less and then there would be
01:34:52
◼
►
like a cup you know and compatibility
01:34:53
◼
►
layer where you could run mac apps in a
01:34:55
◼
►
classic thing and it just didn't fly it
01:35:01
◼
►
just didn't fly at all because apple
01:35:03
◼
►
just didn't have the they weren't in a
01:35:07
◼
►
position of leverage over third-party
01:35:09
◼
►
developers they were at the other end of
01:35:11
◼
►
it we're like they announce this thing
01:35:13
◼
►
at WWDC and that everybody WTC was like
01:35:16
◼
►
I know we're not going to support that
01:35:18
◼
►
and instead of yeah yeah good luck
01:35:22
◼
►
you're going to be doing it was actually
01:35:23
◼
►
at that point in 97 when like people
01:35:26
◼
►
like Adobe and Microsoft like well we're
01:35:28
◼
►
not we're not rewriting our apps for
01:35:29
◼
►
that that meant that's not gonna fly
01:35:32
◼
►
I mean that and that was it I mean you
01:35:34
◼
►
know effectively you know I I would even
01:35:36
◼
►
go so far as argument that at that point
01:35:38
◼
►
adobe probably single-handedly had had
01:35:41
◼
►
the ability to shit candidate have adobe
01:35:44
◼
►
said well I widow be combined with
01:35:46
◼
►
Microsoft know that if adobe if if
01:35:49
◼
►
office and it wasn't called the cs sweet
01:35:51
◼
►
yet but at you know that Adobe's
01:35:54
◼
►
professional graphic design tools
01:35:56
◼
►
photoshop and illustrator and you know
01:35:59
◼
►
the other ones like that if they weren't
01:36:02
◼
►
going to run on it then it was it wasn't
01:36:03
◼
►
going to fly because that there's apple
01:36:05
◼
►
financially dependent upon me almost
01:36:08
◼
►
almost completely people who were buying
01:36:11
◼
►
max to run adobe software and or off
01:36:15
◼
►
microsoft office
01:36:16
◼
►
yeah at that point there was nobody who
01:36:18
◼
►
cared as much about apple thing
01:36:20
◼
►
businesses Apple did like no one's
01:36:21
◼
►
business was dependent on him even adobe
01:36:23
◼
►
most distant also gone to Windows
01:36:24
◼
►
Microsoft I mean Bill Gates simply said
01:36:27
◼
►
about next step before was acquired by
01:36:29
◼
►
Apple you know you can do it all from
01:36:30
◼
►
that computer developed for it I'll piss
01:36:31
◼
►
on it that was one of the better bill
01:36:34
◼
►
gates quotes that no one wants to
01:36:37
◼
►
rewrite their apps for a new platform
01:36:38
◼
►
unless their business is so incredibly
01:36:40
◼
►
tied the others like oh my God all of
01:36:42
◼
►
our customers are Max and if if this is
01:36:44
◼
►
where the Apple operating system is
01:36:45
◼
►
going after all of our customers are
01:36:47
◼
►
going to get and we need to put our
01:36:48
◼
►
application to that nobody was in that
01:36:50
◼
►
position anymore advisor
01:36:52
◼
►
you know and i can see i actually don't
01:36:54
◼
►
even blame at the time I thought it was
01:36:56
◼
►
cute and I wasn't really on board with
01:36:58
◼
►
the whole next thing I mean you know I
01:37:01
◼
►
thought I saw his arrogant i think more
01:37:02
◼
►
at the time foolishly arrogant but I can
01:37:05
◼
►
kind of see in hindsight where they were
01:37:06
◼
►
coming from where it surely would have
01:37:08
◼
►
been a lot easier and it was shipped a
01:37:10
◼
►
lot sooner if let's say Adobe and
01:37:13
◼
►
Microsoft it said you know what this
01:37:15
◼
►
does look good and we've always been a
01:37:17
◼
►
little intrigued by the whole you know
01:37:20
◼
►
what between everybody now called Coco
01:37:23
◼
►
you know that this whole development
01:37:24
◼
►
thing and it looks pretty good does look
01:37:26
◼
►
fast but we couldn't get on board before
01:37:27
◼
►
because the next user base was so small
01:37:29
◼
►
but now that you're bringing this to the
01:37:31
◼
►
tens of millions of devoted mac users
01:37:34
◼
►
this does look good but you know we're
01:37:36
◼
►
happy to do this let's help us you know
01:37:38
◼
►
let's all work together and make a co
01:37:39
◼
►
photoshop in 1997 that it would have
01:37:44
◼
►
been a lot easier for apple and it would
01:37:45
◼
►
have been a simpler system and would
01:37:47
◼
►
have been as you know smaller you know
01:37:49
◼
►
effectively would have been you know a
01:37:51
◼
►
lot like what we think of what iOS has
01:37:53
◼
►
turned out to be but it kind of turned
01:37:56
◼
►
out to be a blessing though because
01:37:57
◼
►
they're it wasn't ready
01:37:59
◼
►
like right was not ready for people to
01:38:00
◼
►
use it was slow at all the api's we take
01:38:03
◼
►
for granted were not there didn't exist
01:38:05
◼
►
at all like you know what the courts
01:38:06
◼
►
display layer was just dog slow there
01:38:09
◼
►
was no core data no core animation no
01:38:12
◼
►
corporate none of the core API is really
01:38:13
◼
►
existed its core audio maybe back then
01:38:16
◼
►
like everything was just in shambles
01:38:18
◼
►
there they built the bundled
01:38:19
◼
►
applications were ugly ports of their
01:38:22
◼
►
next versions it's just if you had taken
01:38:24
◼
►
if you tried to bring microsoft office
01:38:26
◼
►
to rhapsody it would have been like word
01:38:30
◼
►
six-point would have been like disaster
01:38:32
◼
►
you know they just weren't ready and so
01:38:34
◼
►
this this more gradual transition where
01:38:37
◼
►
they had to go back to the drawing board
01:38:38
◼
►
in the end they had carbon like carbon
01:38:40
◼
►
was super important to not just the
01:38:42
◼
►
success of the operating system but just
01:38:44
◼
►
to make it Pleasant people you mean ye
01:38:46
◼
►
544 Mac os10 or the carbon application
01:38:49
◼
►
right there was on the web and
01:38:51
◼
►
everything but we needed you needed IE
01:38:53
◼
►
to do your you know your quota for real
01:38:55
◼
►
web browsing because who the heck is
01:38:56
◼
►
going to use on the web and things
01:38:57
◼
►
didn't quite look right now and all
01:38:59
◼
►
these these carbon apps you needed them
01:39:01
◼
►
not just because that's how you got
01:39:03
◼
►
developers on board but because those
01:39:05
◼
►
were the apps p
01:39:05
◼
►
old knew and loved and even if they
01:39:08
◼
►
could put them over night it wouldn't be
01:39:10
◼
►
the same like it just wasn't ready right
01:39:12
◼
►
now and as you know and I do think that
01:39:14
◼
►
that in the long term you could see it
01:39:16
◼
►
as a blessing in disguise and maybe you
01:39:18
◼
►
know because effectively that they did
01:39:19
◼
►
eventually get what they wanted but with
01:39:21
◼
►
iOS i think but i think it was a lot
01:39:24
◼
►
better off and maybe you know it was so
01:39:27
◼
►
much better off because all of those
01:39:28
◼
►
other technologies were ready by 2007
01:39:31
◼
►
when is shut it and they could do things
01:39:34
◼
►
like have really really fast fluid
01:39:36
◼
►
scrolling and response times
01:39:40
◼
►
yeah they got they basically took this
01:39:42
◼
►
this operating system was slow bloated
01:39:44
◼
►
piece of crap in 1999 and they got into
01:39:46
◼
►
it it's fast enough tight enough that it
01:39:49
◼
►
runs on a phone and that's that's a
01:39:51
◼
►
quite a quite a transition right let me
01:39:54
◼
►
do the second sponsor and then what will
01:39:57
◼
►
wrap up our second sponsor is idea
01:40:01
◼
►
bucket idea bucket is an iOS app I used
01:40:05
◼
►
to be an ipad app the new version just
01:40:07
◼
►
out i think it's out today is universal
01:40:10
◼
►
for ipad and iphone and it's an app for
01:40:15
◼
►
helping you make decisions really really
01:40:18
◼
►
cool you i really really need idea the
01:40:21
◼
►
ideas you can use this for something
01:40:22
◼
►
like picking your next job haha choosing
01:40:27
◼
►
which TV to buy i picking a name for a
01:40:30
◼
►
pet or even like name for your next
01:40:32
◼
►
child choosing where to go to vacation
01:40:34
◼
►
anything like that where you have a
01:40:35
◼
►
whole bunch of choices to make and so
01:40:38
◼
►
the flow is simple it's a simple orderly
01:40:40
◼
►
thing you create a bucket for a decision
01:40:43
◼
►
you have to make and you add all of your
01:40:45
◼
►
ideas then you create criteria to rank
01:40:49
◼
►
these ideas and you rate them so you
01:40:51
◼
►
create a criteria and you can say which
01:40:53
◼
►
end of it is bad which is good like for
01:40:56
◼
►
a vacation place you could say a
01:40:59
◼
►
temperature weather thing is too hot or
01:41:01
◼
►
too cold a place is too hot or too cold
01:41:03
◼
►
for the time you're taking a vacation on
01:41:05
◼
►
and then you rank these criteria which
01:41:07
◼
►
criteria are more important for you once
01:41:11
◼
►
you set that up you can create custom
01:41:13
◼
►
reports based on the weight of the
01:41:16
◼
►
that the rankings that you've applied to
01:41:18
◼
►
each of these criteria for each of the
01:41:20
◼
►
choices in your decision and you get
01:41:22
◼
►
these custom sliders to let you adjust
01:41:23
◼
►
them I and then you see your results
01:41:26
◼
►
with three different reports the first
01:41:29
◼
►
is an overall highlight of your results
01:41:32
◼
►
displayed on a cool sort of slanty line
01:41:34
◼
►
thing you kind of have to see it to
01:41:36
◼
►
understand it but it's really really
01:41:37
◼
►
cool if you could see the movie on their
01:41:39
◼
►
webpage you'll see exactly what I mean
01:41:42
◼
►
the second is sort of a straightforward
01:41:44
◼
►
bar chart that ranks them and the third
01:41:46
◼
►
is the most powerful it lets you view a
01:41:49
◼
►
sort of scattered chart based on two
01:41:51
◼
►
selectable criteria a time so anytime
01:41:55
◼
►
you want to make a decision this is a
01:41:56
◼
►
great app to fire up and and do it is i
01:41:59
◼
►
have not seen any other app that tries
01:42:01
◼
►
to solve this exact same problem really
01:42:04
◼
►
they just launched the universal today
01:42:07
◼
►
like I said it's in the app store for
01:42:09
◼
►
the iphone and the ipad and for a very
01:42:12
◼
►
limited time it's only 99 cents one buck
01:42:15
◼
►
so you want to support the show you want
01:42:17
◼
►
to support cool apps for the iPhone and
01:42:19
◼
►
iPad 99 cents go get idea bucket you can
01:42:23
◼
►
find out more at idea bucket dot me so
01:42:27
◼
►
dot me domain idea bucket that me and
01:42:30
◼
►
you can find it in the app store for
01:42:32
◼
►
ninety-nine cents that's it one buck
01:42:34
◼
►
great app my thanks to him so the thing
01:42:39
◼
►
I've gone back to the why doesn't why
01:42:41
◼
►
isn't there someone doing what you do
01:42:42
◼
►
with mac OS 10 reviews with iOS the
01:42:44
◼
►
other thing that occurs to me is that it
01:42:45
◼
►
wasn't so clear at the beginning that
01:42:47
◼
►
iOS was an OS I mean we knew I knew it
01:42:50
◼
►
was I mean I'm technically savvy enough
01:42:51
◼
►
you know that I know that there's a
01:42:53
◼
►
different OS I know it wasn't os10 it
01:42:55
◼
►
was this other thing that was an
01:42:57
◼
►
offshoot based on similar technologies
01:42:59
◼
►
but I didn't really think of it as an OS
01:43:01
◼
►
like in the abstract way that Mac os10
01:43:03
◼
►
has always clearly been an OS where it
01:43:06
◼
►
was this software that you could buy on
01:43:08
◼
►
a disk it was on a desk it was pure
01:43:10
◼
►
software and that in theory Apple could
01:43:14
◼
►
have you know and then for years and
01:43:17
◼
►
years and years people used to tell me
01:43:18
◼
►
that they could make it a version that
01:43:20
◼
►
ran on any pc and you can just go to a
01:43:22
◼
►
storm by this Mac os10 and have a
01:43:25
◼
►
version that you could put a dell
01:43:28
◼
►
still it's an OS it's a software that
01:43:31
◼
►
runs a computer
01:43:32
◼
►
I you know and and even the early DP
01:43:36
◼
►
reviews it was very clear that it was it
01:43:38
◼
►
was abstracted from the computers that
01:43:39
◼
►
ran on because you never you didn't buy
01:43:41
◼
►
computers that ran Rhapsody Developer
01:43:44
◼
►
Preview to you bought computers that
01:43:46
◼
►
came with mac OS 9 and then you would
01:43:48
◼
►
get this disc from a DC and put it in
01:43:51
◼
►
and install it was clearly an OS whereas
01:43:54
◼
►
like circa 2007 it was like the iphone
01:43:57
◼
►
that we were writing about and and we
01:43:59
◼
►
sort of at least I did I just sort of
01:44:01
◼
►
took it as the as a whole and I like
01:44:04
◼
►
everything I wrote about the iOS when
01:44:05
◼
►
are about iOS was really in the context
01:44:08
◼
►
of writing about the iphone remember
01:44:10
◼
►
what they call the updates the firmware
01:44:12
◼
►
update i do remember that i do have a
01:44:14
◼
►
hundred 500 megabytes of firmware right
01:44:17
◼
►
and I remember kind of rolling my eyes
01:44:18
◼
►
at that and I remember to thank you like
01:44:20
◼
►
I have everything that it was it must
01:44:22
◼
►
have been a curious behind-the-scenes
01:44:23
◼
►
discussion as to what to call that I
01:44:27
◼
►
mean like and I knew that it wasn't
01:44:29
◼
►
really firmware in the sense to call it
01:44:31
◼
►
whatever you want but it's you know it's
01:44:32
◼
►
an OS update but it just wouldn't have
01:44:36
◼
►
occurred to me to do that at the
01:44:38
◼
►
well it didn't become another didn't
01:44:39
◼
►
become an OS and most people's eyes
01:44:40
◼
►
until it accepted third-party
01:44:42
◼
►
applications because then you've got a
01:44:44
◼
►
all right who cares what OS the ipads on
01:44:46
◼
►
that picks that pic CEO thing no one
01:44:48
◼
►
cared about that because if you can't
01:44:49
◼
►
write apps for it
01:44:50
◼
►
that's what it's not so much that we
01:44:51
◼
►
thought is pure software but like once
01:44:53
◼
►
you can write apps for it all now you've
01:44:54
◼
►
got an OS on your hands so soon as the
01:44:56
◼
►
appstore ball this is an OS you know
01:44:58
◼
►
you're writing an application on a
01:45:00
◼
►
lesson today I'm that naming stuff i was
01:45:03
◼
►
that that's such a weird you know
01:45:06
◼
►
iphone OS make some sense but you know
01:45:08
◼
►
it's going to be on more than iphones
01:45:10
◼
►
and he was always the ipod touch right
01:45:11
◼
►
it's a but why is it called iPhone or
01:45:13
◼
►
whatever and there was like for like
01:45:15
◼
►
five minutes they wanted to call it OS
01:45:19
◼
►
10 which would be distinct for Mac os10
01:45:22
◼
►
remember that fine i do remember that no
01:45:24
◼
►
I do remember that I think even wrote
01:45:26
◼
►
about enduring fireball when I was like
01:45:27
◼
►
this is getting really really confusing
01:45:29
◼
►
because everybody i know just calls Mac
01:45:32
◼
►
os10 os10 they already call it that in
01:45:36
◼
►
univ apple doesn't officially call it
01:45:38
◼
►
and then the world in just two years
01:45:40
◼
►
later now Apple calls
01:45:41
◼
►
Mac OS 10 OS 10 which was the name that
01:45:43
◼
►
free Liu said 45 minutes they were using
01:45:46
◼
►
to call it wasn't something I was it
01:45:49
◼
►
they were calling iOS os10 they was they
01:45:52
◼
►
haven't come up with iOS yet it was
01:45:54
◼
►
iphone OS and you should look back in
01:45:56
◼
►
the post but i'm pretty sure it was like
01:45:58
◼
►
there was distinguishing OS 10 which
01:46:00
◼
►
runs on things that aren't max and then
01:46:02
◼
►
there's mac OS 10 which runs on macs
01:46:04
◼
►
right i was very confusing
01:46:07
◼
►
it was like I don't understand was like
01:46:08
◼
►
the umbrella term that encompassed
01:46:09
◼
►
iphone OS and also the thing that had an
01:46:11
◼
►
ipod touches right that's what the way
01:46:13
◼
►
I've more saw it was os10 was like
01:46:15
◼
►
wasn't apparent tech a parent umbrella
01:46:20
◼
►
technology and from OS 10 came to
01:46:24
◼
►
children Mac os10 and iphone OS yeah it
01:46:29
◼
►
was it was definitely confusing but
01:46:31
◼
►
definitely it definitely helps sort of
01:46:33
◼
►
avoid it helped keep me from thinking
01:46:35
◼
►
about it distinctively as just an OS and
01:46:40
◼
►
there are other little things to that if
01:46:42
◼
►
someone if I had been trying to do this
01:46:45
◼
►
trying to do to iOS what you do too Mac
01:46:48
◼
►
os10 as it goes and write about each
01:46:50
◼
►
release in like mini book-length form
01:46:54
◼
►
like what / would have occurred to me to
01:46:57
◼
►
do a version of a release for the ipad
01:46:59
◼
►
the original iPad which had like a
01:47:01
◼
►
really weird version number it was like
01:47:03
◼
►
through a three-to-two or something yes
01:47:06
◼
►
ok there's something like that it was
01:47:08
◼
►
like the original iPad key a ship with
01:47:10
◼
►
like version 3.2 to of iphone OS but the
01:47:14
◼
►
iphone never got 3.2 anything I phone
01:47:16
◼
►
was on 31 and then the iphone got 33 and
01:47:20
◼
►
the ipad was still on 324 and it was you
01:47:24
◼
►
know it took them quite a while to get
01:47:26
◼
►
them squared up on two one release but I
01:47:29
◼
►
in you know technologies like that kind
01:47:31
◼
►
of temporarily forked it it's like when
01:47:33
◼
►
you used to get like the new mac
01:47:35
◼
►
hardware in order to come with a special
01:47:37
◼
►
yeah are the enablers just just about
01:47:39
◼
►
these are because they just released a
01:47:40
◼
►
new mac right and it would be like you'd
01:47:43
◼
►
be running like this there's one mac
01:47:45
◼
►
that can run System 7.52 enabler be so I
01:47:51
◼
►
forget it was like a neighbor or
01:47:52
◼
►
something it was
01:47:52
◼
►
a little thing but there was only one
01:47:53
◼
►
mac in the world that could run it and
01:47:56
◼
►
that at least until the next version of
01:47:58
◼
►
the OS came out that version that mac
01:48:00
◼
►
could run no other software if you like
01:48:02
◼
►
booted from an external hard drive that
01:48:03
◼
►
had like a generic system 7.5 to install
01:48:06
◼
►
it with just didn't even get to the
01:48:07
◼
►
happy Mac yeah i think there are people
01:48:13
◼
►
out there who do every kind of review
01:48:16
◼
►
you could imagine for for every
01:48:20
◼
►
operating system like it this year was
01:48:21
◼
►
one of the first years that people were
01:48:23
◼
►
putting out reviews are actually longer
01:48:25
◼
►
than my reviews not by much but still
01:48:26
◼
►
longer and that that's always bothered
01:48:30
◼
►
me when people that thing people
01:48:32
◼
►
remember about my reviews are teasing
01:48:33
◼
►
about is how long they are but is far as
01:48:35
◼
►
I'm concerned it's not the that's not
01:48:37
◼
►
the length and certainly not the
01:48:38
◼
►
comprehensiveness because i'm keenly
01:48:40
◼
►
aware of all the things I'm i omit so
01:48:43
◼
►
that's a double-edged sword of like all
01:48:44
◼
►
your thing is so long it right is long
01:48:45
◼
►
but I say I wanted to talk about this
01:48:47
◼
►
and wanted to talk about that and you
01:48:48
◼
►
miss this like sometimes they didn't
01:48:50
◼
►
miss it but sometimes like she's it's so
01:48:51
◼
►
long already you think I should have put
01:48:53
◼
►
more stuff in right and that's always
01:48:55
◼
►
not been the emphasis of my review is
01:48:56
◼
►
not a comprehensive tour of the features
01:48:59
◼
►
that are available or let me show you
01:49:01
◼
►
every single pixel to change the entire
01:49:02
◼
►
operating system it seems like that if
01:49:05
◼
►
you don't yourself know everything that
01:49:07
◼
►
changed and I'm taking point out some
01:49:08
◼
►
new thing but the main thing that I
01:49:10
◼
►
choose to point out is based on what i
01:49:13
◼
►
think is important and just because I
01:49:15
◼
►
pointed out my new team doesn't mean
01:49:16
◼
►
that everything less less my new don't
01:49:19
◼
►
need anything larger I caught as well
01:49:20
◼
►
you know and it amazes me how I can get
01:49:22
◼
►
away with that like for example in my
01:49:24
◼
►
line review i did not mention airdrop
01:49:25
◼
►
once and nobody asked about it right
01:49:28
◼
►
like the major headlining feature of the
01:49:30
◼
►
operating system on apple's website i
01:49:31
◼
►
didn't mention at once as a variety of
01:49:34
◼
►
reasons why I might leave something out
01:49:35
◼
►
but it's like if you want that where
01:49:37
◼
►
someone goes to every single thing and
01:49:38
◼
►
screenshots every single app and finds
01:49:40
◼
►
every single new thing you can find that
01:49:42
◼
►
out there like and that's that's not
01:49:44
◼
►
what I think I'm delivering so that the
01:49:46
◼
►
for someone to do a similar reviewed
01:49:48
◼
►
amanda is it wouldn't necessarily have
01:49:49
◼
►
to be long or write cover every minor
01:49:51
◼
►
detail would have to be somebody who is
01:49:53
◼
►
like been with iOS since day one which
01:49:56
◼
►
is that is not hard to find and is
01:49:57
◼
►
really invested and not just iOS but in
01:50:00
◼
►
the entire history of mobile operating
01:50:01
◼
►
system and what iOS means in that
01:50:03
◼
►
context right all the way going back to
01:50:05
◼
►
you know whatever like they were heavy
01:50:07
◼
►
trailer user and they had to you know
01:50:09
◼
►
they're using a razor and a start actin
01:50:12
◼
►
like just their hardcore mobile app
01:50:14
◼
►
handheld operating system device
01:50:16
◼
►
aficionados who happen to have a keen
01:50:19
◼
►
interest in iOS and I are gonna put
01:50:21
◼
►
everything in context because that's
01:50:22
◼
►
what I think I'm bringing to the mac
01:50:24
◼
►
reviews is a perspective and history and
01:50:27
◼
►
all the things you get when you're old i
01:50:29
◼
►
guess that's what I've got because what
01:50:31
◼
►
I've got to provide now is wisdom and
01:50:32
◼
►
experience and I guess I'm speaking to
01:50:36
◼
►
other people who are similarly decrypted
01:50:38
◼
►
an old and have those similar
01:50:40
◼
►
experiences and they can understand that
01:50:42
◼
►
context maybe maybe I'm losing my
01:50:44
◼
►
audience for people who are younger and
01:50:45
◼
►
just want to know what the new features
01:50:46
◼
►
are whatever but that's for any type of
01:50:50
◼
►
thing that that's what I'm looking for
01:50:51
◼
►
somebody who I can tell like you know if
01:50:54
◼
►
they were reading washing machines like
01:50:55
◼
►
that they are washing machine aficionado
01:50:58
◼
►
and they've been writing clip about
01:51:00
◼
►
washing machines for decades and they
01:51:02
◼
►
know the history of washing machines
01:51:03
◼
►
they know where this one falls and in
01:51:04
◼
►
the pantheon of washing machines that's
01:51:06
◼
►
what I want to read you know right and
01:51:09
◼
►
it's definitely it's more about the
01:51:11
◼
►
story like i said is the connection
01:51:12
◼
►
between the previous reviews where you
01:51:15
◼
►
combine them and you get a sense of a
01:51:17
◼
►
yeah there's a there's a why did you
01:51:20
◼
►
know here's the direction you're going
01:51:21
◼
►
and i think is best exemplified by your
01:51:24
◼
►
writing about that the files not file
01:51:29
◼
►
system but the document saving changes
01:51:32
◼
►
which haven't it they haven't all come
01:51:36
◼
►
at once and they've been sort of like
01:51:37
◼
►
well here is sort of where we're going
01:51:39
◼
►
to start going with it and maybe the
01:51:41
◼
►
high DPI stuff is sort of like that to
01:51:42
◼
►
where you know although i think apple
01:51:46
◼
►
kind of change direction on that from
01:51:48
◼
►
where we envisioned it years ago being
01:51:50
◼
►
more like an arbitrarily resizable thing
01:51:52
◼
►
where all the graphics are PDFs or some
01:51:55
◼
►
kind of you know vector graphics to the
01:51:57
◼
►
no no we've that that was all
01:52:01
◼
►
we're just gonna go to X everything is
01:52:02
◼
►
twice as big yeah but with the document
01:52:05
◼
►
saving stuff and the the way that gives
01:52:08
◼
►
you a you know like Matt newburgh on our
01:52:10
◼
►
climbing to that did a really really
01:52:11
◼
►
good job of going into some of these
01:52:13
◼
►
details of the way this new
01:52:15
◼
►
whatever you want to call the whole
01:52:17
◼
►
collective thing the new modern document
01:52:19
◼
►
Mac system thing works but the thing
01:52:23
◼
►
you've covered well is addressing the
01:52:26
◼
►
what's the problem apple is trying to
01:52:28
◼
►
solve and it's the fact that I think
01:52:32
◼
►
this was in your mountain lion review
01:52:33
◼
►
but i know you wrote this where it
01:52:34
◼
►
specifically that this whole paradigm of
01:52:37
◼
►
how Mac OS tens interface starts who
01:52:40
◼
►
works with and how people interact with
01:52:42
◼
►
documents started in nineteen
01:52:43
◼
►
eighty-four and really they started
01:52:46
◼
►
planning it before that a time when
01:52:47
◼
►
everything was being saved to four
01:52:49
◼
►
hundred kilobytes floppy disks we're at
01:52:52
◼
►
literally every single bite was precious
01:52:54
◼
►
and almost every floppy disk you own was
01:52:56
◼
►
like filled up to the rim and you really
01:52:59
◼
►
kind of needed to have the user in
01:53:01
◼
►
charge of every single thing that was
01:53:02
◼
►
going onto the disk because the space
01:53:04
◼
►
was so precious and took things like
01:53:06
◼
►
10-15 seconds to save your word document
01:53:08
◼
►
a little hat and hair and right right
01:53:12
◼
►
had saved you know right it real and it
01:53:14
◼
►
really kind of required that you know I
01:53:17
◼
►
over use this analogy but it's you know
01:53:19
◼
►
required to the the filesystem saving
01:53:22
◼
►
equivalent of them stick shift on a car
01:53:24
◼
►
where you were in complete control over
01:53:26
◼
►
what you're you know the car is in it
01:53:28
◼
►
every time you really kind of needed to
01:53:30
◼
►
be in charge of everything I got written
01:53:32
◼
►
to disk and when not yet you point out
01:53:35
◼
►
because you didn't want to go too long
01:53:36
◼
►
without saving because a crash when
01:53:38
◼
►
you'd lose everything and you didn't
01:53:41
◼
►
want to save too frequently because a
01:53:42
◼
►
save would take time and you can't you
01:53:44
◼
►
couldn't do anything while i was saying
01:53:46
◼
►
no you don't want your she couldn't pull
01:53:48
◼
►
down menu you can you go to another ad
01:53:50
◼
►
notice you really want to know what's
01:53:52
◼
►
happening right i remember one copying
01:53:56
◼
►
copying multiple files at once and that
01:53:59
◼
►
was a hell that WIC demo remember when
01:54:02
◼
►
copying files was a good model
01:54:05
◼
►
oh yeah now I remember the first time I
01:54:07
◼
►
was ever technically impressed by
01:54:09
◼
►
another desktop operating system being a
01:54:11
◼
►
smug mac user that I was and you know
01:54:13
◼
►
that the eighties or whatever is one I
01:54:15
◼
►
saw a friend of mine he had os/2 and he
01:54:19
◼
►
copied the document onto a floppy disk
01:54:21
◼
►
and then went off to do other things
01:54:22
◼
►
while the file copied onto the fabulous
01:54:24
◼
►
know like that's amazing that how do you
01:54:26
◼
►
everybody do anything else well
01:54:27
◼
►
something's happening
01:54:28
◼
►
a floppy disk it's like pre-emptive
01:54:29
◼
►
multitasking Wow on a desktop operating
01:54:32
◼
►
system and you really really don't
01:54:34
◼
►
appreciate that's one of those things
01:54:35
◼
►
you just don't appreciate how slow those
01:54:37
◼
►
discs were until you your attention was
01:54:40
◼
►
completely focused on the screen and
01:54:41
◼
►
there was nothing you could do until it
01:54:43
◼
►
was finished but you really needed that
01:54:45
◼
►
and all of these paradigms of how this
01:54:46
◼
►
works and that you say command and to
01:54:50
◼
►
make a new document and nothing is saved
01:54:53
◼
►
her blood nothing is written to disk
01:54:55
◼
►
until you do command ass and you pick a
01:54:58
◼
►
place and you pick a name and you hit
01:55:00
◼
►
return in that dialogue box there was a
01:55:04
◼
►
reason for that but there's no reason
01:55:06
◼
►
for that to be the dominant model today
01:55:10
◼
►
where people you know I I would be
01:55:14
◼
►
curious to know I think could be like a
01:55:15
◼
►
really interesting stat is what
01:55:16
◼
►
percentage of their startup disk is free
01:55:18
◼
►
space of average mac today
01:55:20
◼
►
yeah isn't it is not just a free space
01:55:23
◼
►
it's like you know how long it takes to
01:55:24
◼
►
save like your text document it's like
01:55:27
◼
►
fractions first step but you haven't
01:55:29
◼
►
been SSD especially with an SSD like
01:55:32
◼
►
with I got any of them any of the modern
01:55:34
◼
►
max that ship with an SSD it's I don't
01:55:36
◼
►
even know that you could measure it
01:55:38
◼
►
yeah it's incredibly fast and I'm like
01:55:40
◼
►
most of the time would have to do with
01:55:42
◼
►
ya things that don't have to do with
01:55:44
◼
►
actually writing the bits after disc is
01:55:45
◼
►
just it almost infinitely fast so it's
01:55:47
◼
►
like it's a situation where there's a
01:55:49
◼
►
paradigm for dealing with documents
01:55:50
◼
►
developed a time when the paradigm is
01:55:52
◼
►
appropriate and then all the conditions
01:55:54
◼
►
surrounding it changed with the
01:55:56
◼
►
exception of the users who still have
01:55:58
◼
►
that original paradigm in their mind
01:56:00
◼
►
right so every parent makes no sense
01:56:02
◼
►
anymore but that's that's like it's that
01:56:04
◼
►
gets back to that a pulse pulse key
01:56:06
◼
►
usability book and I don't know if the
01:56:08
◼
►
originals I'd like when the users mental
01:56:10
◼
►
model doesn't match the program's model
01:56:12
◼
►
of how things should work you have it's
01:56:14
◼
►
a busy usability problem and tons of
01:56:17
◼
►
users have that old model it tons of
01:56:19
◼
►
technically savvy users of the old model
01:56:21
◼
►
in their mind of how things are supposed
01:56:22
◼
►
to work but that old way has you know
01:56:24
◼
►
has all the problems that this was
01:56:26
◼
►
actually my line relisted all the
01:56:27
◼
►
problems that the old white has like
01:56:28
◼
►
accidentally forgetting to save then
01:56:30
◼
►
crashing in the middle you saving over
01:56:32
◼
►
an old version on top of a new one
01:56:33
◼
►
people reinventing versioning by putting
01:56:35
◼
►
you know my document my document to my
01:56:37
◼
►
document three my document final v2 I
01:56:40
◼
►
that you've all seen these file names
01:56:41
◼
►
right friend all these anti-patterns
01:56:43
◼
►
that have to do with the old model and
01:56:46
◼
►
people just are our wed to those and so
01:56:48
◼
►
even though they make no sense anymore
01:56:49
◼
►
and the operating system could do
01:56:50
◼
►
something for you now you have a
01:56:52
◼
►
situation with lion and forward where
01:56:54
◼
►
the mental model the technically savvy
01:56:56
◼
►
users does not match the model of the
01:56:58
◼
►
operating system right and that's that's
01:57:01
◼
►
a bad situation makes people unhappy
01:57:02
◼
►
they just wanted to go back to the old
01:57:04
◼
►
way but apples trying I mean Apple it's
01:57:06
◼
►
so great that iOS exists because if this
01:57:09
◼
►
is the i was didn't exist they were
01:57:10
◼
►
doing the same things that we so much
01:57:11
◼
►
harder for me to convince people it's
01:57:13
◼
►
already hard but like now I can just get
01:57:15
◼
►
look look at iOS have you ever been in
01:57:17
◼
►
iOS app and you're like this app will be
01:57:19
◼
►
awesome if only had a save button nobody
01:57:21
◼
►
nobody ever says that Apple proved that
01:57:24
◼
►
like you know because there was no
01:57:25
◼
►
existing mental model like was a new
01:57:27
◼
►
thing you've never used it before look
01:57:28
◼
►
at this crazy thing you swipe your thumb
01:57:30
◼
►
on it's all touch screen and they
01:57:32
◼
►
decided not know saving sorry doesn't
01:57:33
◼
►
doesn't exist
01:57:34
◼
►
no no quitting apps no saving like all
01:57:37
◼
►
that stuff is out the window because
01:57:38
◼
►
they knew that we had a technology for
01:57:40
◼
►
those things to be pointless and and it
01:57:42
◼
►
works and people love it but why do
01:57:43
◼
►
people hate it so much on the Mac
01:57:44
◼
►
because they have a different mental
01:57:46
◼
►
model over there and apple just trying
01:57:47
◼
►
to get over that hump to say come on
01:57:49
◼
►
guys like we know we know this can be
01:57:51
◼
►
better you all of your iOS apps right no
01:57:53
◼
►
saving there isn't it awesome
01:57:55
◼
►
yeah but on my mac but but not that's
01:57:57
◼
►
all they just have to wait for all of us
01:57:59
◼
►
I have before you know they get over
01:58:01
◼
►
that hump or does the mac just go away
01:58:02
◼
►
or it's it's a tough situation for them
01:58:05
◼
►
to be but i'm i'm totally on board with
01:58:07
◼
►
what they're trying to do I see all the
01:58:08
◼
►
benefits of it up I just sympathize with
01:58:11
◼
►
it the problem they face like it
01:58:14
◼
►
they've proven that the better way can
01:58:16
◼
►
work and it's the same people are using
01:58:19
◼
►
his max probably love their iOS devices
01:58:21
◼
►
yet they can't get people to accept
01:58:23
◼
►
anything close to that my little problem
01:58:25
◼
►
of course I go into more the mountain
01:58:26
◼
►
view is that Mac os10 isn't iOS and
01:58:30
◼
►
stuff that works on iOS is partly
01:58:31
◼
►
because the clean sheet and the mac is
01:58:33
◼
►
like this in-between stage where some
01:58:35
◼
►
stuff kinda want to work on the iOS
01:58:37
◼
►
model but a whole other parts the
01:58:39
◼
►
operating system don't want to work that
01:58:41
◼
►
way and so you like I'm not sure how
01:58:43
◼
►
this is going to behave is it going to
01:58:44
◼
►
behave like this new crazy iOS way or is
01:58:46
◼
►
it going to behave like the old Mac way
01:58:48
◼
►
and people can't suss it out so yeah I
01:58:51
◼
►
do and I do think too that the whole new
01:58:53
◼
►
new style document model when all these
01:58:56
◼
►
rules and there's it's not just one
01:58:57
◼
►
simple thing they have to sign on for
01:58:59
◼
►
the developer but if you're on board
01:59:00
◼
►
that all of it works way better in my
01:59:04
◼
►
opinion with iCloud documents documents
01:59:07
◼
►
in the cloud whatever they call it then
01:59:09
◼
►
documents on your filesystem doc even
01:59:12
◼
►
know technically the I cod documents are
01:59:14
◼
►
somewhere in your file system in your
01:59:15
◼
►
library folders you know something
01:59:17
◼
►
something but that you there all you
01:59:19
◼
►
don't see it you're not supposed to see
01:59:20
◼
►
it's you know it's a implementation
01:59:22
◼
►
detail and it makes more conceptual
01:59:25
◼
►
sense there then when you mix and match
01:59:27
◼
►
it with the but I still want to be able
01:59:29
◼
►
to get to it through the finder because
01:59:32
◼
►
then you're still doing half of the
01:59:34
◼
►
things that are based on the old model
01:59:36
◼
►
which is because because the finder
01:59:38
◼
►
still exists
01:59:39
◼
►
you know right and didn't make it go
01:59:40
◼
►
away which i think is good but you then
01:59:42
◼
►
you get the weird situation and all
01:59:44
◼
►
right you have fun and open the open
01:59:46
◼
►
saved i like itself at schizophrenic
01:59:48
◼
►
here's the iCloud version
01:59:49
◼
►
here's the regular version right because
01:59:51
◼
►
it used to be that you do you know if
01:59:52
◼
►
you knew where the file was it's in your
01:59:54
◼
►
documents / project name folder and you
02:00:00
◼
►
did it with bbedit and now you want to
02:00:02
◼
►
open it in this other app you you knew
02:00:05
◼
►
what you could do is you could just go
02:00:06
◼
►
in the finder to that folder and then
02:00:08
◼
►
there's the file and you can drag it on
02:00:09
◼
►
the app or you could go to that other
02:00:11
◼
►
app and hit commando and navigate to
02:00:13
◼
►
that location there now all that's gone
02:00:16
◼
►
but you can still open you can still
02:00:18
◼
►
open a document that was made and let's
02:00:21
◼
►
say text editors TextEdit does I you
02:00:23
◼
►
know I cloud document but you have to go
02:00:27
◼
►
to just like iOS it's not where is it in
02:00:29
◼
►
the file system it's what app is it in
02:00:31
◼
►
and you go to that app and you go to
02:00:33
◼
►
your iCloud documents for that app and
02:00:35
◼
►
then you drag it out of there and this
02:00:37
◼
►
is all to get around the fact that
02:00:38
◼
►
people who are not listening to the show
02:00:40
◼
►
have no idea where their stuff is in the
02:00:42
◼
►
file system like we all know how to
02:00:43
◼
►
navigate the process but experience has
02:00:45
◼
►
shown that you like it no matter how its
02:00:48
◼
►
you can't solve this with education
02:00:50
◼
►
there's just something about the
02:00:51
◼
►
hierarchy that we've had for decades and
02:00:53
◼
►
then most people still don't get it and
02:00:54
◼
►
so that's why I always said forget about
02:00:56
◼
►
that doesn't even exist we're not even
02:00:58
◼
►
showing it anywhere and lo and behold
02:00:59
◼
►
people love iOS feel like they can use
02:01:01
◼
►
it and just like they have regular
02:01:03
◼
►
people have a better experience with iOS
02:01:05
◼
►
that it is nothing you can do to make
02:01:07
◼
►
you know the ease-of-use better to make
02:01:09
◼
►
that that the paradigm of documents and
02:01:12
◼
►
in an arbitrary hierarchy there that you
02:01:14
◼
►
can open with various applications
02:01:16
◼
►
it's just it just doesn't you know
02:01:18
◼
►
people just don't get it so Apple show
02:01:21
◼
►
that the other way can work and now
02:01:22
◼
►
they've got another platform it's back
02:01:23
◼
►
in the old when they would like to move
02:01:24
◼
►
it forward into that way while also not
02:01:26
◼
►
angering the existing people too much as
02:01:28
◼
►
it's like I said in this year's review
02:01:31
◼
►
it's an operating system in transition
02:01:32
◼
►
right they don't even think about i
02:01:35
◼
►
think that the big difference is that
02:01:37
◼
►
it's not that they struggled it that
02:01:38
◼
►
people like we tend to think I tend to
02:01:41
◼
►
think of the file system is like aware
02:01:42
◼
►
where is it in the file system where and
02:01:46
◼
►
I think for the people who don't get it
02:01:48
◼
►
they don't even get that far it's just
02:01:49
◼
►
to them it's just all they see is a
02:01:52
◼
►
jumble of complexity and and and maybe
02:01:55
◼
►
they can get that it's a hierarchy you
02:01:57
◼
►
know that there's things folders within
02:01:59
◼
►
folders and stuff like that but that
02:02:01
◼
►
hope that it's conceptually it just
02:02:02
◼
►
never even clicks as aware thing and now
02:02:05
◼
►
I tend to think of the iOS style and the
02:02:08
◼
►
iCloud document style that that still is
02:02:10
◼
►
where where is the document it
02:02:12
◼
►
the app right but i don't think most
02:02:15
◼
►
people most people don't even think
02:02:16
◼
►
about that right they just go to the app
02:02:18
◼
►
they just go to the app and they know
02:02:19
◼
►
that that they are the document is there
02:02:21
◼
►
but they don't really think of it in
02:02:23
◼
►
terms of asking the question where yeah
02:02:25
◼
►
I think iOS is also insulated by
02:02:27
◼
►
somewhat by the typical purpose of
02:02:30
◼
►
mobile applications no communication or
02:02:33
◼
►
checking your mail and stuff like that
02:02:34
◼
►
there are other tasks that i still think
02:02:37
◼
►
regular people do like basic word
02:02:39
◼
►
processing or printing out a picture for
02:02:41
◼
►
like you're lost cat or something like
02:02:43
◼
►
they're still tat computing tasks the
02:02:45
◼
►
regular non technically savvy people do
02:02:47
◼
►
that nevertheless are beyond the typical
02:02:51
◼
►
realm of things that people do even on
02:02:53
◼
►
ipad and so that's my personal computer
02:02:55
◼
►
still existed and still need to exist
02:02:57
◼
►
and if iOS was faced with those problems
02:03:01
◼
►
of like how do people collaborate
02:03:02
◼
►
working on a project where they just you
02:03:04
◼
►
know building a family tree together or
02:03:07
◼
►
like you know there's something so many
02:03:08
◼
►
tasks that I've seen regular people pull
02:03:10
◼
►
off with a mac or pc that using using a
02:03:14
◼
►
document model and a paradigm for data
02:03:17
◼
►
sharing that simply does not exist in
02:03:18
◼
►
iOS and would be difficult to pull off
02:03:20
◼
►
this you like cheese like how do you get
02:03:22
◼
►
more than how do you create something
02:03:24
◼
►
using more than one application to help
02:03:26
◼
►
create on iOS there's no solution for
02:03:28
◼
►
that right now no good solution no
02:03:30
◼
►
solution that he was going to figure out
02:03:31
◼
►
but I on a mac or pc you know a bunch of
02:03:33
◼
►
kids at the school newspaper can figure
02:03:35
◼
►
out how to put the other newspaper using
02:03:36
◼
►
seven applications you can't put
02:03:39
◼
►
together a newspaper using seven
02:03:40
◼
►
applications on ipad you do with one
02:03:42
◼
►
awesome application maybe and maybe
02:03:43
◼
►
that's the model Apple wants but with
02:03:45
◼
►
iOS kind of gets a pass on this is like
02:03:49
◼
►
the things it's designed to do it does
02:03:50
◼
►
so amazingly well and the things that
02:03:52
◼
►
it's not quite designed to do yet
02:03:55
◼
►
oh well you know the trucks can handle
02:03:56
◼
►
out the max for the PCs and so it's
02:03:58
◼
►
tough spot for the desktop and i wrote a
02:04:02
◼
►
piece for macworld on sort of along
02:04:05
◼
►
similar lines and about two years ago
02:04:06
◼
►
and i think the line is I could google
02:04:08
◼
►
it but let's see if i can google it was
02:04:12
◼
►
the article quoted back to you i forget
02:04:14
◼
►
it was the the heaviness of the mac is
02:04:17
◼
►
what allows the iOS iOS to be so light
02:04:20
◼
►
yep I remember that one as well as close
02:04:22
◼
►
as I would get to the quote though but
02:04:24
◼
►
that the sentiment was there then it's
02:04:26
◼
►
zwilling this 222 at least allow this
02:04:29
◼
►
complexity is what allows iOS to
02:04:32
◼
►
disallow and that complexity which
02:04:35
◼
►
complexity is occasionally very very
02:04:37
◼
►
useful or even essential to certain
02:04:39
◼
►
workflows and I do think I also going to
02:04:42
◼
►
fundamentally I mean we can't get into a
02:04:43
◼
►
huge discussion of we gotta wrap this up
02:04:45
◼
►
but i do think that's the the the thing
02:04:48
◼
►
that makes me so deeply skeptical about
02:04:50
◼
►
windows 8 and it's sort of we can do it
02:04:53
◼
►
all in one OS idea is that it's not
02:04:59
◼
►
gonna have any of the appeal it might be
02:05:02
◼
►
a better version of windows as we know
02:05:04
◼
►
it but it's not going to have any of the
02:05:06
◼
►
things that made that that that make iOS
02:05:09
◼
►
so appealing
02:05:10
◼
►
yeah it's not it's not gonna have that a
02:05:12
◼
►
comfort and simplicity and just like in
02:05:16
◼
►
a clean sheet breath of fresh air right
02:05:20
◼
►
there's something not bringing any of my
02:05:21
◼
►
baggage with me because like that that's
02:05:23
◼
►
the difference the user is different in
02:05:25
◼
►
that case the same user goes for a mac
02:05:26
◼
►
to an iOS device and they bring with
02:05:28
◼
►
them a different mindset and that's what
02:05:30
◼
►
makes iOS work better because their mind
02:05:32
◼
►
has changed i really do think it's lost
02:05:34
◼
►
among that the text set the real nerds
02:05:37
◼
►
like us and people listened to our shows
02:05:39
◼
►
and stuff like that and even the people
02:05:41
◼
►
not just not even going to people who
02:05:43
◼
►
tend to be sort of against apple or you
02:05:46
◼
►
know the way we want to call them apple
02:05:48
◼
►
haters whatever but even people who like
02:05:51
◼
►
Apple but are technically minded we just
02:05:53
◼
►
tend not to think of the ipad as a
02:05:55
◼
►
computer and and it's not even getting
02:05:58
◼
►
into things like whether it should count
02:05:59
◼
►
in IDC market share numbers or something
02:06:01
◼
►
that we just do think of it as something
02:06:02
◼
►
else but i really do think that you know
02:06:05
◼
►
you have to understand that profoundly
02:06:07
◼
►
for most people really is a computer it
02:06:09
◼
►
may not be there only computer but
02:06:10
◼
►
they're doing things on it that they
02:06:12
◼
►
associate with computing and they're
02:06:13
◼
►
reading pdfs and are doing their email
02:06:15
◼
►
and they're surfing the web a lot I mean
02:06:18
◼
►
that's one thing that we have metrics on
02:06:19
◼
►
that we know that people are surfing the
02:06:21
◼
►
web a lot on iPads
02:06:25
◼
►
and it is i mean it's it i just don't
02:06:28
◼
►
understand why didn't I it's the first
02:06:29
◼
►
OS that's broken the windows
02:06:33
◼
►
what's the word hominid didn't holla
02:06:37
◼
►
I'm not even going to attempt that I
02:06:38
◼
►
like to your mispronounce words well
02:06:40
◼
►
i'll promise match it with the windows
02:06:42
◼
►
it's the first one and and just in the
02:06:45
◼
►
numbers alone even if the growth of Iowa
02:06:47
◼
►
of ipad sales starts tapering off which
02:06:49
◼
►
I don't think is gonna happen
02:06:50
◼
►
it's already done it it's already
02:06:52
◼
►
achieved a even if if it only maintains
02:06:56
◼
►
the market share it currently has a pc
02:06:57
◼
►
salt it it's achieved levels that no OS
02:07:00
◼
►
has ever achieved since you know
02:07:04
◼
►
das first took off in the eighties it
02:07:07
◼
►
makes me wonder what they like so people
02:07:09
◼
►
keep calling back this old Apple I'm
02:07:11
◼
►
which i think is very appropriate the
02:07:12
◼
►
computer for the rest of us remember
02:07:14
◼
►
that one yeah and so like I you know it
02:07:16
◼
►
seemed like the mat because the computer
02:07:18
◼
►
for the rest of us because it's not it
02:07:19
◼
►
doesn't have a das prompt and you can
02:07:20
◼
►
actually use and that was just such an
02:07:21
◼
►
incredible breaking up for the
02:07:23
◼
►
difference in a das prompt and the mat
02:07:25
◼
►
gooey which was just so incredibly
02:07:26
◼
►
seamless in fact i would say more
02:07:28
◼
►
seamless and then I go as tengu' you
02:07:29
◼
►
like there was nothing else that was it
02:07:31
◼
►
it was the iOS of its day and then I was
02:07:33
◼
►
comes along and does that same thing for
02:07:34
◼
►
the mac what do you think the computer
02:07:37
◼
►
for the rest of us like assuming apple
02:07:40
◼
►
still around or whatever where 75 years
02:07:42
◼
►
old and something comes along remember
02:07:43
◼
►
that iOS are complicated it was finally
02:07:45
◼
►
that could be computer for the rest of
02:07:47
◼
►
us here and now anybody can really use
02:07:49
◼
►
it because that's what is a series of
02:07:51
◼
►
making this technology more accessible
02:07:53
◼
►
and you know when I first saw the mac i
02:07:55
◼
►
thought like wow this is an amazing leap
02:07:57
◼
►
and iOS you see oh my God look at all
02:07:59
◼
►
the crap they left behind and that's why
02:08:01
◼
►
like that's why you can just throw this
02:08:03
◼
►
pad in front of a two-year-old an
02:08:04
◼
►
eighty-year-old and they get it like
02:08:05
◼
►
finally the computer for the rest of us
02:08:07
◼
►
i'm trying to think of what is the thing
02:08:08
◼
►
that's going to do that to to iOS
02:08:10
◼
►
because you know you've got to give it
02:08:12
◼
►
20 30 years something else will come
02:08:14
◼
►
along and people say oh iOS what a
02:08:17
◼
►
technical nightmare that was so hard for
02:08:19
◼
►
people to use finally the computer for
02:08:20
◼
►
the rest of us it's qos rights history
02:08:22
◼
►
suggests about 20 years I'd say animates
02:08:26
◼
►
eunuch unix was like a sixties thing and
02:08:29
◼
►
unix is you know that sort of that sort
02:08:31
◼
►
of put the idea that a computer is a
02:08:33
◼
►
thing that boots up with a command
02:08:35
◼
►
prompt separates maybe your seventies
02:08:37
◼
►
well yeah I was probably like 69 is I
02:08:40
◼
►
that's when they started the website is
02:08:42
◼
►
that's multi-user computer yeah and then
02:08:44
◼
►
personal computing was like the Apple to
02:08:46
◼
►
where you could eat another I just say
02:08:48
◼
►
roughly though that the Mac came 20
02:08:50
◼
►
years after command-line computers maybe
02:08:53
◼
►
a little less and maybe you could argue
02:08:55
◼
►
that iOS was delayed a little bit you
02:08:57
◼
►
know we have asserted derivative Steve
02:09:00
◼
►
Jobs article our interview before he
02:09:02
◼
►
came back to Apple we've talked about
02:09:04
◼
►
microsoft introducing a dark ages of
02:09:06
◼
►
computing and set and in hindsight he
02:09:09
◼
►
might have a really good point that
02:09:10
◼
►
there was like a dark ages of innovation
02:09:12
◼
►
where innovate there was no room for
02:09:14
◼
►
innovation and and maybe it's it may be
02:09:17
◼
►
that set progress back five to ten years
02:09:20
◼
►
you know that maybe we should have had
02:09:22
◼
►
the equivalent of iOS 5 or 10 years
02:09:25
◼
►
earlier that was called us
02:09:27
◼
►
yeah there were definitely attempts at
02:09:28
◼
►
it and it was closed Newton was close to
02:09:30
◼
►
just made a couple wrong bats there
02:09:36
◼
►
I so i would say and you know given that
02:09:38
◼
►
were already five years into iOS that
02:09:40
◼
►
would even if its twenty years it's 15
02:09:42
◼
►
years from now it may have you know 10
02:09:46
◼
►
or 15 years from now let's start
02:09:47
◼
►
thinking about the things in iOS that
02:09:49
◼
►
are equivalent to direct access to the
02:09:51
◼
►
file system and all sorts of other
02:09:52
◼
►
things that are just too complicated
02:09:53
◼
►
people handle and I bet you could think
02:09:55
◼
►
of some you know maybe maybe working i
02:10:00
◼
►
don't know what what is the equivalent
02:10:01
◼
►
of something that's just too much of a
02:10:03
◼
►
pain in iOS and that involves technical
02:10:05
◼
►
details that we shouldn't need to be
02:10:06
◼
►
concerned about what we do
02:10:08
◼
►
installing apps maybe they made that
02:10:11
◼
►
pretty simple right now installing know
02:10:15
◼
►
what I was thinking is maybe get the
02:10:18
◼
►
idea of document storage and media
02:10:21
◼
►
access and how how you were you know
02:10:25
◼
►
typing so tell the Apple things were
02:10:26
◼
►
complaining about it and not you know we
02:10:29
◼
►
all know we want something that's more
02:10:30
◼
►
flexible but every more flexible system
02:10:31
◼
►
we can think of is also more complicated
02:10:33
◼
►
as their system that's both simpler and
02:10:36
◼
►
more capable i don't know i'll
02:10:38
◼
►
definitely that that's what i'll be
02:10:39
◼
►
watching for in my in my dotage what it
02:10:42
◼
►
was the real computer for the rest of us
02:10:44
◼
►
maybe they'll have to involve neural
02:10:46
◼
►
implants or something
02:10:47
◼
►
yeah and I think if you know maybe maybe
02:10:49
◼
►
a lot more AI and maybe it's all about
02:10:52
◼
►
input method now is the kind of a kind
02:10:53
◼
►
of was with iOS you know
02:10:54
◼
►
yeah definitely but I do think though I
02:10:57
◼
►
do think and and you mentioned this
02:10:59
◼
►
earlier in the show when you said that
02:11:01
◼
►
it didn't really matter how good Mac
02:11:03
◼
►
os10 was or even how good it was
02:11:05
◼
►
directly compared to windows there was
02:11:06
◼
►
nothing that was at that point that was
02:11:10
◼
►
going to shun shake windows as this
02:11:13
◼
►
90-plus percent market share of the pc
02:11:16
◼
►
market thing because of other factors
02:11:19
◼
►
other than the quality of it whereas iOS
02:11:22
◼
►
like when this entirely other direction
02:11:24
◼
►
where it's not better in the sense that
02:11:27
◼
►
we always compared Mac os10 to being
02:11:29
◼
►
windows being better in terms of doing
02:11:31
◼
►
the exact same things in a better more
02:11:34
◼
►
elegant more efficient better design way
02:11:36
◼
►
it that it was better in this other
02:11:39
◼
►
weird way which doesnt even maybe never
02:11:42
◼
►
even occurred to us which was it it is
02:11:44
◼
►
completely understandable and put some
02:11:46
◼
►
normal people at ease by not even
02:11:49
◼
►
allowing them to do these things that
02:11:51
◼
►
that we just take for granted and
02:11:53
◼
►
computer that's what the mac was posted
02:11:55
◼
►
or two and then whether that kind of did
02:11:56
◼
►
as well but a girl gets back to Steve
02:11:57
◼
►
Jobs saying you know what would you do
02:12:00
◼
►
if you're running apple before i came
02:12:01
◼
►
back he said I would you know milk the
02:12:02
◼
►
mac faults work and get working on the
02:12:04
◼
►
next big thing and that's I think what
02:12:06
◼
►
has a mac user that that scared me a
02:12:08
◼
►
little bit like heb comes back he's just
02:12:10
◼
►
gonna use the mac as a cash cow and
02:12:12
◼
►
chuck it on the curb and I couldn't get
02:12:14
◼
►
excited about and get working on the
02:12:16
◼
►
next big thing because I couldn't see
02:12:18
◼
►
what the next big thing would be so
02:12:19
◼
►
that's like you're going to take the
02:12:21
◼
►
thing that I love and kind of screw it
02:12:23
◼
►
I'm me and you're gonna get working on
02:12:24
◼
►
the next big thing which i think is
02:12:25
◼
►
probably going to fail well when he came
02:12:27
◼
►
back to Apple he you wouldn't say you
02:12:30
◼
►
milk the mac for always birth but he
02:12:32
◼
►
certainly tried his best to improve the
02:12:34
◼
►
mac like he gave it the love it deserves
02:12:35
◼
►
and he also got working on the next big
02:12:37
◼
►
thing and that expectation turned out to
02:12:39
◼
►
be a friggin phone right so know who saw
02:12:41
◼
►
that coming but that's apparently not
02:12:43
◼
►
Microsoft well you could argue maybe
02:12:44
◼
►
maybe the next best thing I remember
02:12:46
◼
►
thinking know that for a while remember
02:12:48
◼
►
think about that interview and thinking
02:12:49
◼
►
that it's funny that the next best thing
02:12:50
◼
►
was a Walkman the next big thing yeah
02:12:53
◼
►
next birthday
02:12:54
◼
►
well I mean that was kind of creeping up
02:12:55
◼
►
on like the idea of portable devices and
02:12:57
◼
►
consumer electronics and moving in that
02:12:59
◼
►
direction like you know i didn't i
02:13:01
◼
►
didn't see the oven maybe when they
02:13:03
◼
►
started making money off like it's not
02:13:04
◼
►
the next big thing they're gonna become
02:13:06
◼
►
sony but iOS really convinced me and I
02:13:08
◼
►
was got the feeling but I are you know
02:13:10
◼
►
that the ipad basically a computer that
02:13:13
◼
►
that's the that's that size not easy to
02:13:15
◼
►
use is what jobs had in mind his entire
02:13:18
◼
►
life about yeah what personal computing
02:13:20
◼
►
should be like and you didn't think of
02:13:22
◼
►
it as a music player can hold a lot of
02:13:23
◼
►
songs i was just cool that was like on a
02:13:25
◼
►
pond road you know and you know what and
02:13:27
◼
►
then we'll wrap this up but it is a
02:13:29
◼
►
perfect there's a perfect place because
02:13:30
◼
►
I've i believe that i didn't write this
02:13:31
◼
►
down in my notes i'm so glad you just
02:13:33
◼
►
said that cause it reminded me of it and
02:13:34
◼
►
you're the only person I wanted to talk
02:13:36
◼
►
to about it which is that the early clue
02:13:41
◼
►
to the ipad being the sort of thing jobs
02:13:45
◼
►
wanted to get to and maybe he was trying
02:13:48
◼
►
to get there well in fact definitely was
02:13:50
◼
►
trying to get their way too fast at the
02:13:51
◼
►
time that that purple button in the
02:13:55
◼
►
early pre-release Mac os10 single window
02:13:59
◼
►
mode single window mode up in the upper
02:14:01
◼
►
right of every window and they did you
02:14:04
◼
►
know was a purple tic-tac you know you
02:14:06
◼
►
had a red yellow green in the left
02:14:08
◼
►
corner for clothes minimize zoom and in
02:14:14
◼
►
the upper right corner and this was
02:14:16
◼
►
controversial the beginning because in
02:14:17
◼
►
the old Mac OS only clothes was top left
02:14:21
◼
►
and the zoom and minimize were top right
02:14:22
◼
►
and they moved at all that the top left
02:14:25
◼
►
and we all complain because they moved
02:14:26
◼
►
something and we made up these arguments
02:14:29
◼
►
that while now people are going to the
02:14:30
◼
►
reason you want clothes all by itself is
02:14:32
◼
►
because its destructive and you don't
02:14:35
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want to put other things nearby because
02:14:36
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people could accidentally click them on
02:14:39
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blonde really want only reason we
02:14:41
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complain about it because they moved it
02:14:43
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but what they put instead in the
02:14:44
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top-right was a purple button which I
02:14:49
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don't remember exactly how it was
02:14:51
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supposed to work but you know it's
02:14:53
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called single window mode and it was you
02:14:55
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would say this is at one window at a
02:14:57
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time and it just didn't work
02:15:01
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I mean it just didn't work because the
02:15:03
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mac had already they were building on
02:15:05
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this system that was completely designed
02:15:07
◼
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from the outset that be a bunch of
02:15:09
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overlapping window
02:15:10
◼
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yeah i mean it was kind of like they're
02:15:15
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doing this radical new user interface
02:15:16
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►
like it all looks different has these
02:15:18
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candy colored buttons and it's based on
02:15:20
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next step which is thing that jobs like
02:15:22
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►
from his company but you can see him
02:15:25
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looking over the shoulder bedrooms don't
02:15:27
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like this is great and all but we need
02:15:29
◼
►
the house windows all this just so messy
02:15:31
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►
what if we had a thing that just showed
02:15:33
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one window and then when you show the
02:15:35
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►
next window the previous one hit like
02:15:36
◼
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wouldn't be easy to just focus on one
02:15:38
◼
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thing at a time and so you know that I
02:15:40
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can see him saying that and then i'm
02:15:42
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going to i guess we could put a thing
02:15:44
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maybe you had a button and just and just
02:15:46
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put into a mode where you only saw one
02:15:48
◼
►
when you just focus on one thing you
02:15:50
◼
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know not have all these distractions and
02:15:51
◼
►
everything would just be a mode for the
02:15:52
◼
►
whole Western time you switch to a
02:15:54
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►
different window the previous one would
02:15:55
◼
►
hide like arthritis begin let me put it
02:15:57
◼
►
in and just people scream bloody murder
02:15:59
◼
►
but that's not how you use a mac but he
02:16:00
◼
►
wanted something that was like that
02:16:02
◼
►
where you just do one thing at a time
02:16:04
◼
►
and you know even if it doesn't fill the
02:16:07
◼
►
screen like it's the focus and there's
02:16:08
◼
►
no distractions and the mac was not the
02:16:10
◼
►
place to do that but we all said that
02:16:12
◼
►
about the I the ipad in particular is
02:16:14
◼
►
that you know there are many activities
02:16:16
◼
►
people say they prefer to that because
02:16:17
◼
►
this fewer distractions I mean you can
02:16:19
◼
►
you can assume any window into you know
02:16:21
◼
►
covering your whole screen and now they
02:16:22
◼
►
have a legitimate full screen mode you
02:16:24
◼
►
can do that on the mac but that's not
02:16:25
◼
►
the motor and the man in fact the full
02:16:27
◼
►
screen mode goes back to the it's the
02:16:29
◼
►
button to do it is up in the upper right
02:16:32
◼
►
yeah i mean that's that's kind of like
02:16:33
◼
►
single user mode you use the swiping
02:16:35
◼
►
gestures between but it's all focus was
02:16:37
◼
►
this is too much stuff right why is why
02:16:40
◼
►
all this stuff here why do we all have
02:16:41
◼
►
these little things
02:16:43
◼
►
why we're looking at all this clutter at
02:16:44
◼
►
one time yeah i mean like it in and mac
02:16:47
◼
►
OS 9 and end of his life you have like
02:16:48
◼
►
the control strip and you have a little
02:16:50
◼
►
program switcher and then you had a menu
02:16:52
◼
►
and then he had pop-up tab folders
02:16:53
◼
►
remember those at the bottom of screen
02:16:54
◼
►
as the right things like it was just so
02:16:56
◼
►
much standard the menu bar and the
02:16:58
◼
►
little girls and your thing like he
02:17:00
◼
►
tried so much with Mac os10 to get all
02:17:01
◼
►
that crap out of there and you know just
02:17:03
◼
►
the doc one unified interface element no
02:17:05
◼
►
popup folders know Apple menu if you
02:17:07
◼
►
could help but no little power to coming
02:17:09
◼
►
down the side but running applications
02:17:11
◼
►
no control strip just get that crap out
02:17:13
◼
►
of there but you know the limit there
02:17:15
◼
►
was still too much stuff there and so
02:17:17
◼
►
the iOS was seriously now everything off
02:17:20
◼
►
the screen except what I'm doing right
02:17:22
◼
►
and that that's what it took a new
02:17:24
◼
►
platform and your new form factor do
02:17:26
◼
►
everything right and it was so much it's
02:17:28
◼
►
actually more way more in that direction
02:17:30
◼
►
because it's not well sometimes you can
02:17:32
◼
►
be in this mode but then you can go in
02:17:34
◼
►
the other mode and have all your
02:17:36
◼
►
overlapping windows its know all the
02:17:38
◼
►
time every time there's one app at a
02:17:41
◼
►
time and that app is the screen and has
02:17:44
◼
►
the whole screen and nothing but the
02:17:46
◼
►
screen and there's no other there is no
02:17:48
◼
►
other state college I had to look this
02:17:51
◼
►
up my roof I forgot when you activated
02:17:53
◼
►
single user mode all but the frontmost
02:17:54
◼
►
window would minimize to the doc and
02:17:57
◼
►
then when you unmona mais any other
02:17:58
◼
►
window from the doc that previously on
02:18:00
◼
►
minimize window went back down so was
02:18:02
◼
►
the whole went into the document that
02:18:03
◼
►
one user interface element and anytime