24: It’s Like Drug Money, with Glenn Fleishman
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I have a question that this is the type
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of thing that this is why I need to hire
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staff because if i had a staff I
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wouldn't have to ask you this
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ok but it's a protocol question I want
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to get the protocol you know when you
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meet the Queen of England there's a
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reason it's very complicated protocol I
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want to get this protocol right now do I
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introduce you as jeopardy champion
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Atlanta flash on and or do I introduce
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you as to time jeopardy champion Glenn
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fleischmann i think i think just
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jeopardy champion otherwise it's
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bragging i got you all right it's okay
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to win but then you know you sort of
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rubbing in some of those what's funny is
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I I think I thread the needle little
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neatly because i was i think i was a
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pretty good player not a fantastic
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player but I was between 27 de champions
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it turned out so I met both of them at
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the outgoing one who lost just before I
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did and I'm at the incoming 121 just
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after i did and i think both of them
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would have completely clean my clock
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because they had superb buzzer timing
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and some better domain knowledge that
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plays jeopardy so I got very lucky
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wait picnic did you did you beat the 72
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you the one who knocked the incoming
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seven-time champion off though
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no this is it was perfect she Stephanie
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yas lost because they had another name
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it's like a little family so she won she
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comes in we get in there it's on there
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on a Tuesday Wednesday for taping so I'm
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going tuesday morning and they're like
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oh well welcome stephanie is our
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five-time returning champion and we all
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look at each other and go oh shit right
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like we have to deal with this person so
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she plays two games at 85 games today
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she placed two games she the third game
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she plays which was not against me
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the Final Jeopardy question was
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ridiculous and even those of us sitting
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audience is contesting sides afterwards
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like we would have gotten it wrong it
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was asking for the country that have the
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largest state that would have been like
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the six largest country in the world it
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was a country and Stephanie wrote like
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Outer Mongolia issued now someone else
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wrote our products which is the correct
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state the question was asking for the
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country so the winner was sort of a
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fluke she wanted Final Jeopardy India
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then I be this lovely woman named
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Meredith and I won twice next morning
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come back and went to shows 45 that day
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come back the next morning and I lose
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the first game because I'm just fried
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the woman who beat me she wins one more
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game and she loses to the next seven-day
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champion teeth whitener very nice guy
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also got ya i imagine that is like a
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typical power law distribution where
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everybody everybody who gets on the show
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is good i mean it's the other qualifying
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process is enough that everybody who
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gets on his is pretty good even even
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someone who ends up not doing too well
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in an episode is probably a pretty good
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you know neighborhood trivia champion
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they win a lot so right the people get
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there should really be able to mean the
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game mechanics of being you know on a
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stage and and so be confronted with that
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might get you but you everyone knows you
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know a lot of stuff so yeah so I was
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with the the outliers of the things they
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do a lot of stuff in the game now to
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prevent people who win from keeping
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winning by giving them better training
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so giving out new contestants better
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training so we get is more her soul
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there's more buzzer practice and all
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that and that's level things out since
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Ken Jennings but I was between two
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people who end up being the number 14
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number 15 all-time money winners on
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jeopardy which is like a long history
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it's right for 30 days to get away a lot
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less money but they gave me a lot of
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money for a long time so I'm not you
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know I'm like the number 220 all-time
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winner out of that is still be pretty
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good i'm happy with the skills because
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they give me more money so even a basic
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game with more but like so I was between
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two outliers like these people are
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actually a 97 99 percent jeopardy
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players right and I'm like a 85th
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percentile keep her 80th percentile
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Michael it's okay i want somebody
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unhappy but it was there was funny it
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was funny and they're both nice people
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too and Billy back for tournament of
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I'm gonna watch them kill each other how
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many you have to win five to get on
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Tournament of Champions three but then
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there's a threshold of money and and at
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this point someone keeps a tally of it
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looks like you have to at least fifty
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thousand dollars which is minimum of
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three games but up least fifty thousand
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dollars now to get in huh
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given how well people have done so so
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it'll be it'll be a pretty fierce
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competition I think for the all-time
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rankings they should inflation adjust it
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and it's socially it you know because i
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think what they did is they doubled the
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money at some piano is language why it's
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like art fart Fleming was one thing that
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came from the series back
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I think it used to be like another top
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money you could win it was it was hard
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to win more than several thousand
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dollars but there's a baseline routinely
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yeah the baseline that's just call it X
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is the first round you know now what is
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it usually a hundred dollars on on this
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alex trebek one but that should just be
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called X and then whatever you win has
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to be a multiple of that I agree because
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then it's right if it's sort of like
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movie earnings to his you-know-whats
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notice know you're sleeping beauty or
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out of phantasia there's some movie that
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was the that's still in current dollars
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some billions of dollars that made might
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be gone with the wind acting was that
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it's one of those can go on with the
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wind that cost me thousands of dollars
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no its final jeopardy question list i
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think it might think i'm not trying to
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torment you here but I do that I believe
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that inflation adjusted if you just
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count ticket sold instead of counting
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dollars just count how many people put
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their butts in the seats to see the
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theater I think it was gone with the
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wind now I think that's eventually look
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at prices of stamps with gasoline and
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people are like stamps cost ridiculous
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amounts like know just different
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relation postage is the cheapest it's
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been practically since Benjamin Franklin
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or whatever you know and gasoline is
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actually it's expensive but it's not
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that expensive compared the nineteen
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seventies right now right
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i just paid 369 so you have people don't
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like math little thing with the movies
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is that the movie industry is such a
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cutthroat I'm on top right now thing
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that nobody has any interest in in
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remembering how popular jaws was right
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it's really just you know like whatever
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was the most popular movie of the last
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six months is really all that matters
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and that's all anybody wants to promote
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but it's it's like if you look back and
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see that jaws grossed 300 million
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dollars or 275 million dollars or
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whatever but then realized that
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first-run movie tickets for like a
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buck-fifty it's you know it's ridiculous
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exactly i'm everyone i paid i went to
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the first THX 1140 check sound movie
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that ever went to was robocop is open
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new theater and eugene oregon i paid i
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don't know it seems like a crazy i was
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at five dollars in 1984 something it was
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it seemed obscene was a 415 I was like
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oh my god it was then you know that's
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when pay $11 in something and I think
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that's actually cheap inflationary terms
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relative to what I paid for that I do
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there it is it it's a paths
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rite of passage in the united states
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that eventually it's it's when you
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become a full-fledged adult is when
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you're outraged by the price of X that's
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right right and I remember being a
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teenager and here in my dad complain
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about movie ticket prices I just
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remember thinking well that's just
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proved that you're an old man you know
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you're out of touch now now it's my turn
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i'll try to explain inflation to my kids
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my five-year-old a year old and they
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they can sort of get some of it and I
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had this experience not that long ago so
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the oatmeal god is that cartoon he
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raised a returner thousand dollars
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despite a douchebag who is suing him
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over something that was ridiculous and
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he was in town I don't you know talk to
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my boy editors and I can go cover this
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ensure so I call my colleges only all
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very nice guy and Matthew and he's like
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yeah come on down and so it's me and him
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and this friend of his who's packing
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some heat going to license and he'll
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pick up the money and his girlfriend his
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mother's mother helps fulfill all his
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mother does always some packaging like
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sends all the mugs and t-shirts up from
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a small town in Washington so in this
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room with like hundreds of thousands
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dollars like you want to help make sure
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some family kiddo it's like drug money
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it's like these big bundles twenty
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dollars and you don't understand how
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truly ridiculous money is why wasn't in
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cash he wanted to take he spelled out fu
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and douchebag in cash to send to this
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lawyer said I'm gonna take pictures of
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this money than I raised that i'm
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sending to charity so we took it all of
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the bank made pictures out of it let's
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put it on the floor in bundles of
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pictures and hand-picked money back the
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back and dispersed it's the charities
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and it's just a big you so but you
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handle cash and the absurdity of money
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as a system error symbolic part of our
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economy it is even worse when you handle
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large amounts of it doesn't matter if
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it's yours or not you're looking like
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what does this mean it's all this
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printed paper like this is a huge amount
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of cash and it just it like it just
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seems like even more absurd than it
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you you'd really do that I've you know
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I've I've met you several times at
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conferences in the UU instantly come
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across as a very trust trustworthy man
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like I'm not surprised i don't think
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that if I had been writing that story i
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don't think i would have been invited to
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help count the cash it was like a nice
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like his friend there is packing but no
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it was I'd met him before but stover
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great buddies or anything it's just as
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good guy and and that's what I was like
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this is you know like when a small room
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whatever but it's awfully nice that you
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trust i'm gonna hundreds of thousands of
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dollars in my hands right i I've had
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that experience secondhand I just not
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with what was in my hands but watching
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other people were in casinos where I
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like I've gone by the high-limit
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baccarat rooms and the like it
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Bellagio and you can just look in and
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see and you see that guys are playing
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with yellow chips and yellow chips are
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5,000 each and they're just putting out
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stacks of them i mean yeah i don't even
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know to the point where you can't even
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clearly count them you know where it's
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easily 25 30 35 thousand dollars of that
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and then I just think well that's that
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to me isn't insane i would die would die
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of a heart i like to gamble I I know I'm
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not averse to gambling but if I had 35
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thousand dollars in front of me on a
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planet world player of cards i would
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have a heart attack and I well here's
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the thing i can do a callback now which
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is some there in jeopardy and I'm like
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I'm gonna bet everything I could come
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from my trip solid at five thousand
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dollars but I had this great
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conversation with an IBM scientists
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recently who worked on the Watson team
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that won at jeopardy in 2011 and there's
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all this discussion about the natural
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language processing that Watson did and
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dozens of scientists worked on this for
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four years I mean I being but millions
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and millions of dollars with the staff
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time in addition to tens or hundreds of
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millions of computer resources because
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they have all these interesting things
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are going to do with it now but they
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thought jeopardy was the right challenge
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makes a big splash it's good marketing
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but it's a great challenge right so
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natural language processing it was
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astonishing that it did as well as it
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did but he was working on the wagering
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and how you so they would take the
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output like the question what kind of
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clue would come up the subsystems that
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did all that would you know incredibly
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rapidly have to process it before it
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rang in it would produce a confidence
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score instantly and keep refining it and
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he was constantly processing and the
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confidence score would let it choose
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whether to wager and it also used to
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pick which the daily double square our
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daily doubles might be under because
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they place them not it's not even
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pseudo-random replaced traditionally in
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certain places and so you can predict
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them and so bye-bye other wagering
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simulation of other players to test the
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system and pre-selecting we're using
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Bayesian analysis other things with the
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daily double score might do better
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elsewhere might be they dramatically
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improve the odds of winning and so the
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natural language processing was very
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impressive but the wagering part was
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actually did all these monte carlo
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simulations they're like you know we
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don't believe the average jeopardy
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player will be familiar with the what's
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the guy the John the movie about a
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fellow is slightly is mentally ill
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limited by the statistician Malaysian
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really think that I know you mean it was
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a rather like Ron Howard movie
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yeah so like we don't we don't think
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that every jeopardy players can have you
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know Monte Carlo simulations running in
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their head but all the simulation of
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wagering and strategy by other people
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by analyzing the archive of all the
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wagers and decisions people have made
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throughout the entire history of
◼
►
Jeopardy affected it and they made weird
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bats like on daily double straps maybe
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we're better and I'm like I read this
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paper i said i would change my strategy
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and the scientists said this guy Jerold
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►
sorrow said he'd worked previously in
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backgammon like computer become making a
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backhand simulations I could win our
◼
►
systems that could be human players he
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said in every game in chess backgammon
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►
bridge whatever which the computers
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finally improve on and can be the
◼
►
Masters the games people start playing
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the game differently because they
◼
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understand that the way they're playing
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it isn't as efficient and isn't as a
◼
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doesn't have the same odds probability
◼
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of winning as the way computer plays it
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without any of those constraints right
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now without any sort of fear right or
◼
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the computer says I'm ninety-seven
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percent confident the answer so i'm
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gonna wager you know 73,000 there was
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►
one player this one human player in
◼
►
jeopardy Roger Craig was a number for
◼
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money winner and won the tournament
◼
►
champions in 2011 and he would do this
◼
►
thing where he would double down double
◼
►
down double down he was 77 thousand
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►
dollars in one day he did that thing
◼
►
pushing all the markers Ford the 77,000
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►
the most one by anybody on Jeopardy
◼
►
effort and one day I think engines had a
◼
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75 grand a one-day because you do that
◼
►
maybe like he's got you know you've got
◼
►
thirty seven thousand five hours what
◼
►
you can do is like a wager all haha
◼
►
really really any do it and you know
◼
►
that's hard to do it's real money you
◼
►
know and the funny thing is that
◼
►
actually is i think it's it's that it's
◼
►
a very simple game overall jeopardy but
◼
►
i think that the daily doubles is just
◼
►
the right amount of of like a wild card
◼
►
it's like an asterisk in the game that
◼
►
makes it a game and the truth is on your
◼
►
first day the day you won your opponent
◼
►
had a lead that shit could have been in
◼
►
surmountable going into Final Jeopardy
◼
►
could have been unbeatable but she
◼
►
wagered enough on a daily double and
◼
►
lost to give you a chance
◼
►
yeah this is it's a heartbreaking moment
◼
►
which has been preserved on youtube
◼
►
someone's posted about three minutes of
◼
►
it and I didn't realize when playing the
◼
►
game until I watched interviewing party
◼
►
had a bunch of people at a sports bar
◼
►
even we're watching and I'm like oh my
◼
►
god she could have one I had no idea
◼
►
because it's so fast right the average
◼
►
question goes by the the new question
◼
►
every 12 seconds thinking some of the
◼
►
research shows so you know you're in
◼
►
there there's display you can look up up
◼
►
to the left of the big board you can see
◼
►
like a little LCD display of the three
◼
►
players course you can glance up there
◼
►
while you're playing when you're
◼
►
figuring out strategy and so in the heat
◼
►
of the moment if she had a minute to
◼
►
think about it she would about five
◼
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dollars which is technically the lowest
◼
►
instead she got 1,200 and that was the
◼
►
craziest question answer is
◼
►
dendrochronology yeah
◼
►
is it on my god the poor woman yeah so
◼
►
she right so she had twice more than
◼
►
twice as much cited could have read in
◼
►
one and he went right runs just over
◼
►
twice what you had to just under twice
◼
►
what you had and the Daily Double was
◼
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right at the end and she had no chance
◼
►
to get another question to go back up
◼
►
and more than double and so then one
◼
►
more and that was a gentle i know i was
◼
►
watching at home I recognized it
◼
►
instantly because i was really obviously
◼
►
I was rooting for you I thank you and I
◼
►
mean you will be on the talk show if you
◼
►
were one time jeopardy loser cleanse and
◼
►
it's like there's not much but yeah it's
◼
►
like my was really really i thought all
◼
►
she's kind of two and then I thought old
◼
►
a lot an inch did battle and I was like
◼
►
oh give her an impossible question and
◼
►
then they gave her an impossible
◼
►
question are we going that's a
◼
►
ridiculous question like this 13 letter
◼
►
working like all come of course i was
◼
►
watching one of my friends was at the
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►
his dad was a forestry says
◼
►
dendrochronology like oh my god really
◼
►
ya Yin right now because it is you know
◼
►
somebody's somebody knows generating
◼
►
science but it's funny and then we go
◼
►
into the Final Jeopardy that game and
◼
►
this is a great thing about other things
◼
►
that playing a game show about knowledge
◼
►
teaches you is there's a Bob Harris
◼
►
wrote this great book called prisoner of
◼
►
Tribeca spits and about his be 15 times
◼
►
back when you only went five times when
◼
►
he came back and they brought much like
◼
►
four tournaments because he's one of the
◼
►
most interesting nice guys he's got a
◼
►
new book coming out about
◼
►
microenvironment micro investing but a
◼
►
microloan so he's been traveling on the
◼
►
world meeting with people that he's loan
◼
►
money to over kiva it's he sent me an
◼
►
advanced copy it's really cool is really
◼
►
neat guy but he was this great book
◼
►
that's kind of memoir and kind of full
◼
►
of strategy about playing the game and
◼
►
this difference between no knowledge and
◼
►
ferd knowledge and I don't think I
◼
►
understood that as much until I played
◼
►
the game the final question on day one
◼
►
the Final Jeopardy was about a city the
◼
►
city him that's germany had a different
◼
►
name from 1953 to 1991 1933 to a night
◼
►
yet nineteen nineteen fifty three
◼
►
dimensionality what was it and I'm like
◼
►
what you know and I don't know the
◼
►
I don't know the answer and I know the
◼
►
other two players I sort of know what
◼
►
they know what is up probably playing
◼
►
the game and I'm like I studied German
◼
►
four years in college I'm like I know
◼
►
cabinets a german city that's not a
◼
►
problem i know the wall thought 1990 and
◼
►
I'm doing this you know this
◼
►
ratiocination you're like the Germans
◼
►
hated Stalin so it's not
◼
►
that after Stalin Lenin was a Russian
◼
►
Tsar Leningrad I'm like it has to be
◼
►
Karl Marx but I don't know that in the
◼
►
sensation of inferred knowledge is weird
◼
►
and then it's that I got the really yeah
◼
►
that's it you got enough money they want
◼
►
the city name or who was named after the
◼
►
one who was named the city was named
◼
►
after the city of him electricity
◼
►
it's karl marx shot yeah i would another
◼
►
name of the city but in hindsight I my
◼
►
guess was stolen and and I thought in
◼
►
your right this way you're on Jeopardy
◼
►
winning and I'm at home losing a little
◼
►
hey colin is inferred knowledge i knew
◼
►
from the years that had to be communists
◼
►
related that's when exactly that's when
◼
►
that you know that the Russians took
◼
►
control over half of germany after world
◼
►
war two and that's when they lost it
◼
►
I and so I thought well I don't know
◼
►
Stalin and and that's that's as far as I
◼
►
thought and then you're smart enough to
◼
►
think well they hate the Germans hated
◼
►
stolen and you know maybe the the
◼
►
Russians couldn't impose that on them
◼
►
and if so of course you go back you in
◼
►
begin the scope and go right back to the
◼
►
you know the granddaddy of communism you
◼
►
go to Karl Marx but you're staying in
◼
►
that quantum state you're shorting out
◼
►
of the system we call the hospital
◼
►
episode was the schrödinger's cat box
◼
►
because you're here sitting there in a
◼
►
state of which you what you've don't
◼
►
know if you won or lost because you
◼
►
don't firmly know that it's accurate you
◼
►
can only deduce it's accurate so there's
◼
►
no way to know until someone provides
◼
►
affirmative knowledge that your crime
◼
►
would have felt roots I would have felt
◼
►
real good though if I'd come up with
◼
►
karl marx I would have been sitting here
◼
►
thinking it's got to be marks outside
◼
►
because I was like I got one you know
◼
►
one chance but yeah it's funny it's a
◼
►
it's a funny it's a funny game and
◼
►
people are strangely fascinated about it
◼
►
even though a lot of people everyone
◼
►
yeah I love jeopardy and watched it for
◼
►
10 years just because people kept the
◼
►
core they don't to broadcast TV if i
◼
►
didn't have the viewing party i think
◼
►
half the people there wouldn't have been
◼
►
able to watch it at home because they
◼
►
form of television or access to cable or
◼
►
whatever time have I had to do african
◼
►
if we talked about this online or not
◼
►
but as i explained to you my theory of
◼
►
everything it's a theory but i think
◼
►
why does jeopardy come on before wheel
◼
►
of fortune not vice versa in my market
◼
►
it comes on how does is destroy your
◼
►
theory yeah varies by market
◼
►
what's your theory though because wheel
◼
►
of fortune makes you feel smart and
◼
►
jeopardy makes you feel dumb
◼
►
yeah and you couldn't make you feel too
◼
►
dumb they're always striking a balance
◼
►
there i was watching the secret wheeling
◼
►
the secret to wheel of fortunes
◼
►
popularity is that the optimal strategy
◼
►
is not to solve the puzzle as soon as
◼
►
it's to keep racking up money once you
◼
►
know the answer to the puzzle and get a
◼
►
big dollar symbol and pick the tea which
◼
►
you know that there's three of and so in
◼
►
the meantime the audience has all of
◼
►
this way more time to figure out what
◼
►
the puzzle is oh no you're right that's
◼
►
exactly it's a perfect right because the
◼
►
the one the players want to keep it
◼
►
going as long as they can as long as
◼
►
they have money on the board but
◼
►
jeopardy don't i'm at Johns up but the
◼
►
the play this bounced again i was
◼
►
watching one night and they did a
◼
►
category about it i watched excessively
◼
►
after i got the caller's beyond and i
◼
►
went back and read archives and so forth
◼
►
in a they had a cat was all about
◼
►
Huguenots and I'm like really haha
◼
►
Huguenots and the players there i'm even
◼
►
alex is for canada alex trebek is like I
◼
►
think no one got any of the answers
◼
►
right here like really about you can I
◼
►
mean it's a little obscure you know ask
◼
►
you know technology might be bad but you
◼
►
gotta have stuff to people at home feel
◼
►
like they could have known even if they
◼
►
don't know it all right let me take a
◼
►
break and talk about our first sponsor
◼
►
it's great i'm so happy about both
◼
►
sponsors today I'm happy about all of
◼
►
our sponsors every week but today in
◼
►
particular because first sponsor we've
◼
►
got talks back on board now you know
◼
►
talks when this is kind of amazing
◼
►
you don't talk two topics that i just
◼
►
got a delivery of Tanks coffee i can
◼
►
even tell you about what it's like
◼
►
that's me taking a sip i'm drinking
◼
►
tonics coffee right now
◼
►
tonks is a small company and you sign up
◼
►
they send fresh beans to you from all
◼
►
over the world and the coffee is just
◼
►
and and here's here's the things they
◼
►
want me to tell you number one they want
◼
►
they want you to know that contrary to
◼
►
what you might think going to the coffee
◼
►
shop in the barista makes it some kind
◼
►
of latte and then milk ends up looking
◼
►
like the Mona Lisa and you think well
◼
►
that's good coffee is impossible
◼
►
guess what making great coffee like
◼
►
serious world-class great cup of coffee
◼
►
in your own kitchen is super simple some
◼
►
of the best ways to make coffee are so
◼
►
simple blow your mind
◼
►
get great beans or grind them just pour
◼
►
hot water over it into a filter and
◼
►
you've already got a great cup of coffee
◼
►
I the guys from tonks find the best
◼
►
coffee beans from the top producers all
◼
►
literally all over the world
◼
►
I they nailed the roast and they get
◼
►
them in your mailbox at the peak of
◼
►
freshness and they send her my love
◼
►
their envelopes are the the limb
◼
►
packages i think they everything about
◼
►
these guys to me is if you set out to
◼
►
this is my this is what i'm thinking is
◼
►
if you set out to make the best coffee
◼
►
company in the world you'd come up with
◼
►
something like punk maybe not the
◼
►
biggest certainly not the biggest I
◼
►
don't think tanks as big as starbucks i
◼
►
don't know yet might because i'm talking
◼
►
the best if your goal is to set out to
◼
►
do the best coffee in the world would
◼
►
come up with something like tonks great
◼
►
beans everything about them i just i
◼
►
love the the packages that there things
◼
►
come in they'd just the little Ziploc
◼
►
seal is it I don't either with a lot of
◼
►
bags with ziplock i often have a hard I
◼
►
takes me like three steps to get it with
◼
►
the talks one always first one is
◼
►
transparent so you can see the beans it
◼
►
comes and you're looking at the beans
◼
►
and it's got a neat little silkscreen
◼
►
message about what's in there and a
◼
►
little note about it and but I don't
◼
►
feel like they're fussy or favorite it's
◼
►
like it's like they love their coffee
◼
►
they have no attitude about the coffee
◼
►
what they're doing is they're producing
◼
►
something really good and I'm they're
◼
►
not my spots of the responses i can talk
◼
►
about the money wisely behave like
◼
►
reducing its really that's like a
◼
►
delicious product that's designed to be
◼
►
consumed but they're not coffee create I
◼
►
mean there are praising the fact that
◼
►
they're interested in it but it's not
◼
►
that you need to get a
◼
►
ten-thousand-dollar espresso machine and
◼
►
spend a week in Italy learning how to do
◼
►
it it's like you can use an aeropress
◼
►
you use a final espresso machine you
◼
►
could use a hundred-dollar espresso
◼
►
machine the bird grinder I think a
◼
►
that's what I keep hearing and and i
◼
►
support that you want a burger grinder
◼
►
that's where you put the money but then
◼
►
after that you make another way to make
◼
►
it anywhere and you get a good one and
◼
►
the last year forever but there it
◼
►
really is not they're not asking you to
◼
►
put out a huge capital outlay on on
◼
►
fancy equipment or time-consuming
◼
►
processes and they're also have
◼
►
tremendous customer service and a great
◼
►
website where you go there and they have
◼
►
videos and things about you know just
◼
►
here's how to make a great cup of coffee
◼
►
ah most things i like about them too is
◼
►
they don't want to grow too fast that's
◼
►
what i was talking for another soon to
◼
►
be announced meal radio syndicate
◼
►
broadcast i'm working on a document for
◼
►
that so here this in december or
◼
►
something my interview with them and the
◼
►
thing is they don't wanna get big fast
◼
►
they they want to get big that'd be
◼
►
great right there not an ambitious but
◼
►
they aren't there like you know we did
◼
►
have a million customers day one social
◼
►
marketing Facebook advertising Twitter
◼
►
spamblocker like they like growing the
◼
►
growing well they're getting great
◼
►
word-of-mouth they are trying to scale
◼
►
it little by little so they don't get
◼
►
they don't have to deliver inferior
◼
►
product is just love that there's no
◼
►
doubt in my mind that their number one
◼
►
priority is best coffee in the world and
◼
►
everything else is secondary that they
◼
►
want to be profitable i'm sure they want
◼
►
to grow that you know obviously they
◼
►
want to grow that's why they're
◼
►
sponsoring the show to get more talk
◼
►
show listeners to just give them a shot
◼
►
on here's the last thing a couple
◼
►
episodes ago in the last time they
◼
►
sponsored it and I was talking about how
◼
►
they're literally all over the world but
◼
►
I didn't have the list off the top of my
◼
►
head here here's they sent me this there
◼
►
in Africa they have sourced beans from
◼
►
Kenya Ethiopia i'm drinking some stuff
◼
►
from Ethiopia right now and I Rwanda
◼
►
Tanzania in Central America they have
◼
►
sourced beans from Guatemala El Salvador
◼
►
Nicaragua Costa Rica Honduras and in
◼
►
South America Colombia Brazil Ecuador
◼
►
Bolivia Peru so I'm telling it literally
◼
►
all over the coffee growing world these
◼
►
guys are getting the best beans
◼
►
here's how much they believe in it free
◼
►
trial you just sign up go to talk start
◼
►
or gon x.org sign up you get a free
◼
►
trial the beans will show up at your
◼
►
house in a couple of days
◼
►
fresh sealed and I'm telling it you're
◼
►
going to try these beans and you're
◼
►
going to sign up and become a regular
◼
►
mr. thanks talks it's good it's good i
◼
►
even ate some beans raw because they
◼
►
look so delicious that I definitely
◼
►
could my design schools my son loves eat
◼
►
a couple of coffee beans raw let's go
◼
►
ahead and I i will also about he didn't
◼
►
know he has no idea that their sponsor
◼
►
of my show you i don't think he knows I
◼
►
have a show I think talks whenever I
◼
►
make coffee i say hey you want a couple
◼
►
of beans and he'll take through for
◼
►
coffee beans and I gave him the talks
◼
►
ones and he gave me after he chewed the
◼
►
one he gave me the nose like the guy in
◼
►
Pulp Fiction they hey that was pretty
◼
►
good like that that's good coffee the
◼
►
other ones were particularly beautiful
◼
►
color to his olive color it's funny I've
◼
►
never been I've never been like a
◼
►
fetishist of coffee anymore so 40 but
◼
►
not even that but I like a good i like
◼
►
to make it taste good and isn't better
◼
►
and has kind of richness interesting and
◼
►
coming from the town of starbucks so
◼
►
here's a long story by the way so back
◼
►
in 2005 a colleague says hey there's a
◼
►
coffee shop in town that just opened up
◼
►
and they're turning Wi-Fi off on
◼
►
how crazy is that so New York Times
◼
►
weirdly one of the only direct
◼
►
assignments instead of me pitching they
◼
►
call me up and say can you write a story
◼
►
about this thing's sure so we go and
◼
►
meet these owners young idealistic
◼
►
owners who sold the business with a few
◼
►
years because running a coffee shop is a
◼
►
horrible horrible business they wanted
◼
►
to have a community place and the
◼
►
weekends with Wi-Fi on people never
◼
►
talked was absolutely signs a crypt they
◼
►
hated it so they turn Wi-Fi off for the
◼
►
weekends so the birds vibrator story
◼
►
about it get some really interesting
◼
►
play and some other places also start
◼
►
turning Wi-Fi off it's never really a
◼
►
trend but it's interesting so the guy
◼
►
roasting for them is Tony connect me the
◼
►
hawks and he is i do my first copy i go
◼
►
there he shows me are you copying in the
◼
►
back and I get a taste all this great
◼
►
coffee and then the guys you know is i
◼
►
think what's the opposite of of a bad
◼
►
pennies like a good penny just keeps
◼
►
turning up wherever there's good coffee
◼
►
turns up again and again and again and
◼
►
it turns out everyone in the world knows
◼
►
talks what is the opposite of event and
◼
►
I don't know it's a great pennies shiny
◼
►
penny right but very nice guy and he's
◼
►
always had the same commitment to it and
◼
►
you know it's coffee is a great story
◼
►
because it spans the globe and it spans
◼
►
this huge stretch of modern civilization
◼
►
and you can just become such a fetishist
◼
►
little blah no granny whatever or you
◼
►
can just drink it could cup of coffee
◼
►
but I like the good cup of coffee part
◼
►
better ma'am I you know speaking of good
◼
►
pens your sort of a good penny and that
◼
►
you you've had a crazy variety that
◼
►
you've written for it an ordinate and on
◼
►
a regular basis and inordinately wide
◼
►
variety of publications you just
◼
►
mentioned in New York Times you're now a
◼
►
regular contributor to The Economist ah
◼
►
you have been associated with tidbits as
◼
►
long as I can remember I ever since Adam
◼
►
and Tommy expanded beyond just adamant
◼
►
on yeah i mean i remember you your
◼
►
byline being in 10 minutes
◼
►
how long have been writing for typic
◼
►
since like 1994 yeah that's what I mean
◼
►
having i sent them a letter I sent them
◼
►
a letter once they ran and I was so
◼
►
excited I started writing for them after
◼
►
they lived in seattle when I first moved
◼
►
out here in that 93 i mean we're talking
◼
►
about before the web i mean we're
◼
►
talking about when it when a lot of
◼
►
people were probably still reading
◼
►
tidbits as the a weekly HyperCard stack
◼
►
those were the days of tidbits is now we
◼
►
believe it's the longest continuously
◼
►
published publication on the internet
◼
►
because there's an irish newsletter that
◼
►
stopped publication we think a quick now
◼
►
are the last one since like 99 because
◼
►
there was one they've been watching
◼
►
there was one in China that fell away so
◼
►
in terms of actually coming out on a
◼
►
regular basis for you know x years i
◼
►
think we are now the longest which is
◼
►
which practices and it's astounding
◼
►
really committed to think that it you
◼
►
know the the upheaval that it went
◼
►
through in the first decade uh just in
◼
►
terms of format you know what is what is
◼
►
the format for an Internet publication
◼
►
oh yeah and like dealing with servers an
◼
►
email an apple you know essentially
◼
►
almost imploding underneath it and then
◼
►
coming back and I mean the thing that's
◼
►
funny so here's the best thing about
◼
►
Adam and Tanya thanks as as people is
◼
►
they do a lot of what they do to help
◼
►
their friends make livings and do
◼
►
interesting things they're really like
◼
►
facilitators like they make a great
◼
►
living with what they're doing they
◼
►
figured a really good model with the
◼
►
ebooks with tidbits and so forth and
◼
►
they're charming people and great
◼
►
friends but they also they spend a lot
◼
►
of their time making sure that other
◼
►
people they work with have a good
◼
►
experience and can make a good living
◼
►
from what they do and it's it's like
◼
►
they're so non greedy about it's just
◼
►
yeah so amazing other publications that
◼
►
you have been associated you write for
◼
►
Boing Boing I sorry just a bit right
◼
►
occasionally Mars tecnica and yeah i got
◼
►
this funny thing is i like i like people
◼
►
it's this weird thing I like people and
◼
►
i've been i started my career because I
◼
►
was I was actually trained as a graphic
◼
►
designer first typesetter than a graphic
◼
►
designer was the career I was going to
◼
►
go into but it turned out i've always
◼
►
had an aptitude for computers so I wound
◼
►
up becoming this guy who's like a
◼
►
translator like oh you graphic designer
◼
►
you're trying to use desktop publishing
◼
►
only explain the steps to get there and
◼
►
that's just been kind of my career goes
◼
►
now I mean the Congress I'm the guy
◼
►
where like we don't understand you know
◼
►
nobody in house understands or cares
◼
►
about networking protocols could lend
◼
►
write something about this and so i'll
◼
►
write something on the blog or sometimes
◼
►
I'll pick something about a topic that's
◼
►
really its they're interested in it but
◼
►
it's really obscure the staff members or
◼
►
their science geeks they have PhDs and
◼
►
physics and economics and everything
◼
►
else but the technology side they're not
◼
►
familiar with it but other you know
◼
►
they're very few programmers in-house
◼
►
and so forth so I get to be the
◼
►
explainer of certain aspects of Twinkie
◼
►
digital things they are two and your
◼
►
newest gig which is where I guess sort
◼
►
of where I'm coming with this is you or
◼
►
I don't forget your title exactly
◼
►
executive editor executive at your
◼
►
market when I had some conversations on
◼
►
the magazine Marco Arment still nascent
◼
►
I think it's a dead issue number three
◼
►
is the current issue that's right number
◼
►
for his next week I which is just an at
◼
►
will as soon as I saw the announcement
◼
►
was like God why didn't i wish i had
◼
►
suggested this because this is such a
◼
►
perfect match and I'm i want to be able
◼
►
to take credit for making this happen
◼
►
this is such a perfect fit
◼
►
yeah it feels if it's in the Marcos
◼
►
wheelhouse to where it's like Instapaper
◼
►
it's like Instapaper except he's making
◼
►
the articles that you will then read
◼
►
you're such the perfect fit though
◼
►
because you you know you have such a
◼
►
variety of interests you know you're not
◼
►
just you know you used to write up i
◼
►
think it's past tense i don't think
◼
►
you'd keep it up and what the what the
◼
►
oh yeah that was interesting i spent
◼
►
like a decade writing your Wi-Fi
◼
►
networking news which was a blog that
◼
►
out Wi-Fi you think what the house that
◼
►
it but it was great it was a decade of
◼
►
upheaval in the community the community
◼
►
Wi-Fi and then the all the standards
◼
►
chain right all the devices and in
◼
►
compatibilities standards wars and then
◼
►
then citywide Wi-Fi municipal Wi-Fi and
◼
►
those who have an end and then what
◼
►
happened is was very interesting thing I
◼
►
don't think it was that goes eight years
◼
►
nine years into it and suddenly all the
◼
►
interesting Wi-Fi disappeared because it
◼
►
just started to work and the rise in
◼
►
good mobile broadband like 3g had no 3g
◼
►
was suddenly everywhere 4gs standards
◼
►
that you know hspa+ and some of the
◼
►
faster 3g stuff was starting to get out
◼
►
there and LT was on the roadmap and
◼
►
suddenly people didn't need to know
◼
►
about Wi-Fi anymore because they could
◼
►
just connect whenever they needed to and
◼
►
the whole the traffic just fell out the
◼
►
bottom and which is fine things have a
◼
►
lifetime but i was i was sort of sitting
◼
►
one day I'm like I should stop doing
◼
►
this because know what's reading it for
◼
►
it sort of reminds me of a equivalent to
◼
►
Matt Howie's PVR blog which was wildly
◼
►
popular actually for a while but then
◼
►
everybody you know PVR's kind of became
◼
►
a you know like like like indoor
◼
►
you know like no you know what truly
◼
►
fascinating and life-changing and I but
◼
►
then it you know you just sort of
◼
►
assumed that it's there is no other a
◼
►
big deal because the implosion of the
◼
►
gadget blogs to that sort of happens I
◼
►
mean you still have you know that the
◼
►
verge is not a gadget blog it's a
◼
►
general computing thing that's more like
◼
►
you know macworld plus you know some of
◼
►
like a hifi stereo publication plus a
◼
►
business publication or on gizmodo is no
◼
►
longer exactly a gadget thing neither
◼
►
isn't gadget they write about all kinds
◼
►
of stuff and there's a hundred thousand
◼
►
sites that used to and some still update
◼
►
things that are about every little gijoe
◼
►
and I think and that's what happened
◼
►
Wi-Fi to was like when stuff just works
◼
►
and there's a sufficient amount of it
◼
►
and you don't have to make the same
◼
►
kinds of decisions used to about what
◼
►
you're going to get then the necessity
◼
►
of going to site so still people who
◼
►
obsessively check on every new thing
◼
►
that's coming out but I think the
◼
►
lifespan of those is really expired in a
◼
►
way that they used to capture the
◼
►
attention like 2003-2006 say
◼
►
that's the sort of passed by ma'am I I
◼
►
yeah that too and yeah it's you know
◼
►
it's what I've often said the people
◼
►
that you know for a guy who started
◼
►
writing about apple and his own site in
◼
►
2002 I I always thought if I did I
◼
►
wouldn't pick a name that had the word
◼
►
mac in it and you know that was never
◼
►
really on the table but it really in
◼
►
hindsight is turned out pretty well
◼
►
known i think that's the thing i think
◼
►
the most interesting stuff that happens
◼
►
now is deliberative and I think you know
◼
►
the verge still published as a lot of
◼
►
news but i think you know you want
◼
►
extreme you have any business insider or
◼
►
even national weather still there
◼
►
plowing out as much news is they can all
◼
►
the time some of its you know I'd say
◼
►
master likes of mashable Business
◼
►
Insider let's say none of it's good but
◼
►
they know they've got a business model
◼
►
but then you know I've talked to Brian
◼
►
laminate something for his wire-cutters
◼
►
site and he's the one of the people that
◼
►
gizmodo four years really drove that
◼
►
frenzied pace and now wire cutters like
◼
►
it's the best stuff like I really
◼
►
in-depth stuff and it's like he's doing
◼
►
nothing changes on there from day to day
◼
►
until we post new i mentioned a couple
◼
►
episodes ago forget who was on the show
◼
►
here with me but we were talking about
◼
►
the wire cutter and what a great site it
◼
►
is and compare and contrast to consumer
◼
►
reports which is really really
◼
►
problematic but they're trying to do the
◼
►
same thing which is I you need to buy a
◼
►
I you just what's the best TV to buy and
◼
►
you go to the wire cutter and they just
◼
►
tell you here's the best TV to buy
◼
►
let's get this one or if you're you know
◼
►
it and i'll give you like three options
◼
►
like he's just the best big TV to buy
◼
►
here's the best one if you're on a
◼
►
budget and you know here's the best one
◼
►
if you want something small TV that's it
◼
►
and that's all they tell you to do and
◼
►
then let's give you a link that will
◼
►
explain their we know maybe why it's
◼
►
good but that's it there is no like 888
◼
►
by seven grid of features and check
◼
►
pluses and minuses and edit its Apple
◼
►
like in its simplicity but justice but
◼
►
but I had been a cop with peter rojas he
◼
►
came through seattle a few months ago
◼
►
and I've never met him in person but we
◼
►
had correspondence for years and he
◼
►
founded on gizmodo and then found it in
◼
►
and then founded GD GT and I was a good
◼
►
and and you know so G so he can say he's
◼
►
responsible for all the horror right but
◼
►
but I mean it was with the word it was
◼
►
different when he was involved money
◼
►
each time he left the publication's
◼
►
transformed into something else I think
◼
►
two and the whole industry changed but
◼
►
GD GT is its wire cutter like also it's
◼
►
it's here some really good information
◼
►
on a focus subject we're not going to
◼
►
bombard you because I think there's a
◼
►
limited audience this is what just about
◼
►
the liveblog things still like you know
◼
►
the fact that millions of people will
◼
►
tune in to these liveblog transcripts of
◼
►
what are you going to hear that's live
◼
►
that's not I never understand that like
◼
►
why can't you wait and someone writes
◼
►
analysis or you can watch it yourself
◼
►
when the video is posted but there are
◼
►
obviously a lot of people who are
◼
►
obsessed with the latest newest absolute
◼
►
the second information and then I think
◼
►
a much bigger audience it's like just
◼
►
give me the lay of the land I don't need
◼
►
to read every last bit give me the
◼
►
information so i can make a value of
◼
►
exactly now i agree that a night and I
◼
►
also think I i think it should be i try
◼
►
to do this i always try to keep in mind
◼
►
with what i do a daring fireball that
◼
►
obviously there's some people who are
◼
►
loading the site multiple times
◼
►
throughout the day but i always have in
◼
►
my mind somebody who's really busy
◼
►
hopefully working on some really cool
◼
►
and they going to let they're going to
◼
►
load it once at the end of the day just
◼
►
to see what happened and I want the site
◼
►
the homepage to breed and make sense and
◼
►
sort of give you an overview of what you
◼
►
need to know did you miss anything today
◼
►
or is it just a bunch of the you know
◼
►
goofy pictures of cats or something like
◼
►
that but he's going to use RSS anymore
◼
►
given RSS reader and I do i do but I
◼
►
much comparing spiritual you did before
◼
►
very little twitter is really over taken
◼
►
it to a large extent I really what I I
◼
►
there's like a reckoning coming where I
◼
►
should really I I should wipe out all of
◼
►
my RSS subscriptions and start over from
◼
►
scratch and do it in a very different
◼
►
way where it would be more like here's
◼
►
the Dozen feeds that i don't i know that
◼
►
i don't want to miss a thing and no
◼
►
longer the here's a hundred feeds and
◼
►
i'm going to skim what's new to see what
◼
►
jumps out is breaking like twitter has
◼
►
really overtaken that as the
◼
►
I just what's going on right now am i
◼
►
missing something that's breaking and
◼
►
twitter is an aggregator me it's crowd
◼
►
its crowd-sourced knowledge and on
◼
►
average if you follow people i mean it's
◼
►
sort of funny thing by figuring out who
◼
►
you follow you only follow people are
◼
►
interesting you and subscribe to them or
◼
►
unfollow if they stop being interesting
◼
►
to you overwhelm you and so who's left
◼
►
for people who are likely to post things
◼
►
you're interested in and you can see the
◼
►
same URL from a bunch of people or the
◼
►
weekend tweeted that they're interested
◼
►
in so it's like I don't I i still have
◼
►
our SSI hundreds of things in there but
◼
►
a lot of them are like places where
◼
►
otherwise wouldn't go in there just
◼
►
obscure enough but i keep unsubscribing
◼
►
feeds in our sense because i'm like i
◼
►
don't need the new york times in my RSS
◼
►
if there's an interesting article I mean
◼
►
they're going to see it when i visit the
◼
►
homepage at some point it'll show up 15
◼
►
yeah i totally agree it is twitter is
◼
►
sort of Twitter works that way by doing
◼
►
and I think that you have to do but you
◼
►
have to be willing to unfollow the
◼
►
people you no longer find interesting
◼
►
you know and don't don't don't think
◼
►
it's like I i know i don't have a
◼
►
facebook account that I understand
◼
►
though that like unfollowing or whatever
◼
►
they call it somebody on facebook is
◼
►
considered like rude it is a leg-up you
◼
►
need something you might take personally
◼
►
that somebody is no longer friends
◼
►
friends with you on facebook
◼
►
whereas to me the following unfollowed
◼
►
you should never take that personally on
◼
►
twitter i don't care people on follow me
◼
►
because I'm tweeting about baseball or
◼
►
something like that I don't care except
◼
►
fine come back and haunt you know I
◼
►
don't people have to tell you people
◼
►
like I'm gonna follow you because I
◼
►
don't really care if you're following or
◼
►
not that's why don't you write whatever
◼
►
are you a twitter reader or your Twitter
◼
►
what's the difference well so people
◼
►
like my good friend Lex Friedman he
◼
►
reads twitter he very carefully curates
◼
►
who he follows so the volume isn't too
◼
►
high and has to meet me at times because
◼
►
I go off and I knew I system
◼
►
I i saw this guy i'm a skimmer I cuz i
◼
►
have like I followed thousand people and
◼
►
I dive in and I look I'll scan a little
◼
►
go back to the pit up to the top and
◼
►
forget about it now and it's in it is
◼
►
also part of the brilliance of the the
◼
►
concept of twitter is the you know and
◼
►
it's just been one of the great examples
◼
►
in my mind of how not putting a feature
◼
►
in is design and that's the lack of red
◼
►
on red status that's a 10 in the early
◼
►
years in 2006-2007 that the screaming
◼
►
from people who were you know RSS
◼
►
addicts who were who wanted red on red
◼
►
status for tweets was it was cacophonous
◼
►
and Twitter you know didn't ignore they
◼
►
were like no that's actually the point
◼
►
is not to be have red on red you're not
◼
►
supposed to see all the tweets you just
◼
►
take a look at what's going on now and
◼
►
scroll back as you know couple minutes
◼
►
if you want and if you really want to
◼
►
see them all that's up to you and you'd
◼
►
keep scrolling down the timeline until
◼
►
you see the one that you know you saw
◼
►
last night but we're not going to keep
◼
►
track of that for you because we don't
◼
►
want to encourage that behavior you run
◼
►
a pole sometime I just I've asked
◼
►
occasionally informally and i'm stunned
◼
►
how many people among my followers say i
◼
►
read twitter i'm like oh I put it i
◼
►
think that you know there's a little bit
◼
►
of OCD there may be that when you and I
◼
►
you know I have that to some extent or
◼
►
unread counts do make me anxious
◼
►
yeah so people are like they don't they
◼
►
can't just go to the top ignore that
◼
►
they might miss something I mean the
◼
►
internet is all about the internets
◼
►
motto is you might miss something right
◼
►
on i do read all of my mentions maybe
◼
►
not religiously i mean i might be some
◼
►
days where I'm busy or if I'm offline
◼
►
for most of the day for travel or
◼
►
something like that that I I won't but
◼
►
in general you could there's a very high
◼
►
chance that on a given day any of mine
◼
►
I'm gonna read all of my mentions and
◼
►
they're certainly far more voluminous
◼
►
than a typical twitter user but it's
◼
►
actually not that hard to keep up with
◼
►
way easier than keeping up with email
◼
►
yeah and I think about dimensions are
◼
►
are more like someone I mean it's like
◼
►
an email replacements 140-character
◼
►
email replacement someone bothers to do
◼
►
that i feel like i should respond to
◼
►
them or acknowledge it because otherwise
◼
►
I mean you've got a high asymmetry to
◼
►
that's the thing is you must get a lot
◼
►
of talk i have interesting conversations
◼
►
with people about the scale of Twitter
◼
►
from you know thousand followers to
◼
►
10,000 sort of exponential thing up the
◼
►
people with you know several million and
◼
►
it's fascinating how variable the
◼
►
interaction can be some people with very
◼
►
few followers spend all their time and
◼
►
mention land and others with millions of
◼
►
followers people either to count or they
◼
►
just say like hey you're great but
◼
►
there's no communication right now i
◼
►
find it to just be super efficient and
◼
►
it it forces people who want to contact
◼
►
yeah it's right it's in and in general
◼
►
if you can keep your emails to within
◼
►
the general length of a tweet it's a lot
◼
►
more likely that i'm going to read it
◼
►
and reply but the interaction is so much
◼
►
easier because going through email you
◼
►
have to select it and then it opens and
◼
►
it's just the whole thing if you just
◼
►
want to bring a link to my attention
◼
►
like hey I I can't believe grouper
◼
►
hasn't link to this yet this is so
◼
►
obviously daring fireball material I it
◼
►
is way more likely that i will see it if
◼
►
you tweet to me then if you email it to
◼
►
me and I don't you know because it's
◼
►
it's just an easier work fly just have
◼
►
to scroll through a list and eyeball
◼
►
them as opposed to clicking down through
◼
►
a list in and out in and out in and out
◼
►
well attention is a precious commodity I
◼
►
keep thinking like attention is the one
◼
►
thing you can't get more of you can't
◼
►
build more of it you can you have to a
◼
►
lot it in its it's you know that's what
◼
►
facebook is trying to buy our attention
◼
►
and sell it to people and the I all this
◼
►
is another call back when this is the
◼
►
idea behind marcos the magazine is that
◼
►
he's trying to not overwhelm people and
◼
►
it seems sort of philosophy with
◼
►
instapaper to is that it's you want to
◼
►
read it you can do it later out of the
◼
►
flow of your right of your so the
◼
►
maelstrom of all the stuff that's coming
◼
►
through and I think that's one of the
◼
►
guiding things behind the magazine is
◼
►
like interesting stuff that you're not
◼
►
necessarily going to find everywhere
◼
►
else and just enough you know it's in
◼
►
magazines always curation but it's just
◼
►
enough that it'll be interesting enough
◼
►
to read every issue but you won't feel
◼
►
like oh god I mean running for the
◼
►
Economist that's the thing i always here
◼
►
is I know plenty of people who read it
◼
►
but they think of it sometimes homework
◼
►
they have the issues piled up there
◼
►
again you don't have to read everything
◼
►
you can throw issues into the recycling
◼
►
but people look at it as it's this is
◼
►
something I'm supposed to do or they
◼
►
enjoy it too and they make the time
◼
►
for that but the economy I don't have
◼
►
time to read the comments every week I
◼
►
try to be a good hunk of it but I you
◼
►
know I feel like that I I don't have an
◼
►
economist subscription but i do have I
◼
►
do subscribe to The New Yorker and it i
◼
►
feel that exact same way sometimes I
◼
►
come I come downstairs and look in the
◼
►
mail and there's a new issue of The New
◼
►
Yorker and I can't believe it because it
◼
►
seems like it seems like the other one
◼
►
just came yesterday I and i would have
◼
►
to say that the number one reason i'm
◼
►
not a subscriber to the economist is
◼
►
simply because of how agitated i am by
◼
►
the gigantic pile of New Yorkers in my
◼
►
office i got the new yorker and the
◼
►
economist I I'm not sure that's a
◼
►
winning strategy for me I should
◼
►
probably settle down but you know
◼
►
there's always it's like there's always
◼
►
a long feature the new yorker that I
◼
►
that I love I mean the one thing that
◼
►
the reason I got into the magazine by
◼
►
the way the reason I pitched Marco on
◼
►
being the editor is because I mean a I
◼
►
knew he's a he's a technology guy is
◼
►
also a good editor i like how we headed
◼
►
to the first two issues very much but
◼
►
you know there's this list of things he
◼
►
can do and the stuff is able to offload
◼
►
a whole pile of stuff onto me so we can
◼
►
focus on the areas that he really likes
◼
►
to spend time but the the thing that
◼
►
appealed to me was his view of what the
◼
►
magazine is there's nothing like that
◼
►
right now you can't find a publication
◼
►
that wants to run articles that are of
◼
►
interest to people interested in
◼
►
technology that are either about
◼
►
technology or are made about medical
◼
►
technology the new yorker doesn't really
◼
►
run stories that are of interest to
◼
►
people who know something about
◼
►
technology know even when they're about
◼
►
it so I like the idea that we're going
◼
►
to have things that are have a human
◼
►
focus you know they might be about like
◼
►
you know Lexus the Lexus references
◼
►
article and wet shaving or Dan Moore and
◼
►
I'm making tea that there are things
◼
►
that if you like tech you're going to
◼
►
like to hear about things associated
◼
►
with it I've got a friend who'd as a
◼
►
letterpress guy and his beautiful writer
◼
►
I want him to write about what that
◼
►
means because people who were involved
◼
►
in electronics don't necessarily know
◼
►
the joint interesting sort of the
◼
►
trickiness of letterpress all I am so
◼
►
good at letterpress it is unbelievable
◼
►
that fat letterpress that letter
◼
►
forehead the inky kind of letter I had a
◼
►
quick letterpress I I can't I've mice
◼
►
win rate was about 5% really i would
◼
►
play now maybe i'm playing its people
◼
►
too hard we should find easier players
◼
►
all the people i know are much better
◼
►
wordy who did who did you play who'd you
◼
►
find difficult we never play ever I
◼
►
never end up playing everybody I'd like
◼
►
basically the macworld editorial staff
◼
►
among other people and some other
◼
►
friends and it's funny I know a million
◼
►
words I've had rounds where I was
◼
►
playing with the friend Sarah and she
◼
►
wrote a poem out of the word em up with
◼
►
because we have this great list of
◼
►
things including some very dirty ones
◼
►
the middle of the dirty words and I and
◼
►
but I couldn't win i just i don't have
◼
►
the strategy for to have the words but i
◼
►
seem to like and I played I don't know
◼
►
about 60 games and i won like five of
◼
►
them and I thought this is probably not
◼
►
maybe i'll come back to it but it's hard
◼
►
to always lose a game in the early part
◼
►
of the game being able to find the
◼
►
biggest words is the best skill but once
◼
►
you get to the middle of the game it's
◼
►
it's all strategy and and you can win
◼
►
i'm not good at finding it
◼
►
wow that's a great word words i'm i'm
◼
►
most of my words are like third grade
◼
►
words but they're strategically placed
◼
►
yes well I've seen some of your word
◼
►
list so i posted on the Twitter yeah i
◼
►
do we know the words a lot of
◼
►
letterpress but I didn't just back to
◼
►
here's the thing is it's right the thing
◼
►
that it that makes you such a great fit
◼
►
and it fits with this show that you're
◼
►
talking about doing which is a you know
◼
►
just the idea of how disintermediated
◼
►
can you get and just go back to the
◼
►
simplest thing economically that'll work
◼
►
and look at the magazine me now
◼
►
everybody knows the did it gets a little
◼
►
complex here because the name of the
◼
►
magazine we're talking about is the
◼
►
no I that make it more confusing
◼
►
overtime but the magazine industry in
◼
►
general is is widely regarded as being
◼
►
in a period of upheaval and that this
◼
►
you know it could be on the verge of
◼
►
collapse and that there's you know
◼
►
there's certain big big ones that are
◼
►
probably going to do just fine just
◼
►
because they're you know the economist
◼
►
in The New Yorker certainly right there
◼
►
among them because of the quality of
◼
►
them in the New Yorkers mostly been
◼
►
operated a loss for most of its history
◼
►
i'm not sure if its profit moment but it
◼
►
is almost always been operated a lost is
◼
►
the fasting part but people who run
◼
►
including sign of house
◼
►
now for the last six decades they loved
◼
►
it so much they just they keep it
◼
►
I'm the economist i would hope just by
◼
►
the title is is that ok that's good i
◼
►
think they've doubled their circulated
◼
►
in the last 10 years ago they took away
◼
►
Time and Newsweek decided that stupid
◼
►
was better than smart right so they went
◼
►
stupid I mean time was thing that i read
◼
►
as a kid when you're like a newsweek was
◼
►
a slightly easier version of it but I
◼
►
wasn't bad and US News and World Report
◼
►
I mean that was often has incredibly
◼
►
good stuff in it and you know lots of
◼
►
publications like that now you point out
◼
►
like the Atlantic and Harper's as the
◼
►
ex-employers along with the new yorker
◼
►
of a certain kind of style but for
◼
►
Newsweek like what you read in America
◼
►
that's you know so 2 times we said the
◼
►
stupid or the better the more black
◼
►
people we are without forgetting their
◼
►
news organizations could and the cons
◼
►
picked up all the subscribers you wanted
◼
►
to read something with words of three or
◼
►
more syllables and occasionally and you
◼
►
know the scope of the magazine at least
◼
►
right now is less than the scope of
◼
►
those other magazines for talking right
◼
►
now so far three issues it's about i
◼
►
think it's four or five articles per
◼
►
issue articles or somewhere around
◼
►
thousand to 1500 words that seems to
◼
►
mean I don't know that's right in the I
◼
►
mean the thing is this is where so this
◼
►
podcast I'm going to do which is
◼
►
tentatively titled the disruptors that
◼
►
the notion is that like we've had tools
◼
►
to create stuff for decades now you know
◼
►
i was involved in early desktop
◼
►
publishing audio came after that you
◼
►
know all the digital tools in there to
◼
►
make things and now we're now your
◼
►
digital tools that let you control make
◼
►
3d objects and cnc routers and and you
◼
►
can get a 3d printer in your house for a
◼
►
thousand bucks or less much last season
◼
►
so we're at the revolution where you can
◼
►
have all the digital tools you need to
◼
►
create stuff and the next wave is
◼
►
funding disputed production
◼
►
manufacturing distribution and that's
◼
►
where I keep seeing things like the
◼
►
magazine fits in that beautiful it's
◼
►
like make you still you have to be in
◼
►
bed with Apple they're taking a
◼
►
30-percent cut their your distribution
◼
►
channel but you if you have an audience
◼
►
you're not mr. mediated by it gatekeeper
◼
►
that says you're not allowed to reach
◼
►
that audience Apple would be delighted
◼
►
for you to have 10 million people paying
◼
►
you so they get thirty percent of it as
◼
►
in the past where newsstands new getting
◼
►
a magazine on a physical newsstand there
◼
►
Skyrim connections in the past there's
◼
►
these placement fees the reason
◼
►
magazines a new stands costs like seven
◼
►
dollars and this yearly subscriptions
◼
►
like twenty dollars has to do with the
◼
►
incredible intermediation that adds cost
◼
►
and so you know you take that one step
◼
►
further and digital distribution we
◼
►
don't have to build the distribution
◼
►
platform just the content and the medium
◼
►
it's great well the other things too
◼
►
though that saddle traditional x
◼
►
long-standing newspapers and magazines
◼
►
are the incredible bureaucratic bloat of
◼
►
the organizations that is that took
◼
►
place over the 20th century where I am I
◼
►
used to work at the philadelphia
◼
►
inquirer not on the editorial staff but
◼
►
in the promotion's Department to an
◼
►
graphic design work long time ago but I
◼
►
got to know the company and it was
◼
►
interesting division of the the
◼
►
newspaper to work in because it
◼
►
effectively we did like the house ads
◼
►
like ads for the inquirer itself or if
◼
►
the automotive sales department you know
◼
►
that people who said that the car ads
◼
►
needed like a flyer or something for
◼
►
thing that they were doing we would make
◼
►
that form so i got to know all these
◼
►
people throughout the company and it was
◼
►
amazing to me just draw dropping how
◼
►
many people work there who not not
◼
►
talking about the newsroom not talking
◼
►
about reporters photographers editors
◼
►
people who actually made when I thought
◼
►
of is the newspaper but everybody else
◼
►
it was massive and I'm sure that but you
◼
►
know there's I know in fact I know that
◼
►
they've had a lot of layoffs and buyouts
◼
►
and stuff like that in the years since I
◼
►
work there but it was just jaw-dropping
◼
►
how many people work they're doing
◼
►
things other than what I thought of is
◼
►
the business of doing the newspaper well
◼
►
it's it's crazy but newspapers used to
◼
►
make like twenty-five percent profit
◼
►
margins year after year that was larger
◼
►
and you can have anything that was so
◼
►
you could have any number of executives
◼
►
middle managers members of the family
◼
►
who were too idiotic to send it to other
◼
►
companies promotions people layers of
◼
►
editors reporters your reporters working
◼
►
and features for three years and
◼
►
producing 50,000 words at the end and
◼
►
magazines were I think a little bit more
◼
►
variable but many had extremely high
◼
►
profit margins there was no other place
◼
►
for advertisers together it was a that
◼
►
in fact was a point of contention when i
◼
►
was there because it was at the time
◼
►
it was a knight ridder newspaper The
◼
►
Inquirer out and daily news that the
◼
►
Philadelphia Inquirer and Daily News are
◼
►
jointly published by a flattering to
◼
►
know what the company's called anymore
◼
►
but there is one company that publishes
◼
►
to newspapers and they were owned by
◼
►
knight ridder and knight ridder
◼
►
considered at the time is like the mid
◼
►
to late nineties their flagship
◼
►
newspaper to be the San Jose Mercury
◼
►
News I and it was always a little bit of
◼
►
a point of contention because I think
◼
►
journalistically the Philadelphia
◼
►
Inquirer had a better reputation and on
◼
►
the eighties the Philadelphia Inquirer
◼
►
one more pull it serves than the New
◼
►
York Times or The Washington Post I mean
◼
►
it was truly at a a world-class arguably
◼
►
maybe in the eighties maybe maybe the
◼
►
best newspaper in the country in the ath
◼
►
yeah about the inky and it was so that
◼
►
was sort of a sore point of contention
◼
►
but here's why the San Jose Mercury News
◼
►
was considered the flagship of nitrate
◼
►
and had a higher profit margin it was up
◼
►
in the higher twenties and the enquirer
◼
►
floated around 20 and I like nineteen
◼
►
percent was considered bad and 20 21 was
◼
►
a good core but that's sad days of 19
◼
►
right but that was it i mean there would
◼
►
be like a quarter like 1997 one of the
◼
►
quarters it came in and it was nineteen
◼
►
percent profit margins and it was like
◼
►
maybe they're going to have buyouts and
◼
►
here's the thing and this is of course
◼
►
the time when you still have the union's
◼
►
stranglehold rightly or wrongly I mean
◼
►
I'm not trying to be anti-union but it's
◼
►
like you had i know i gotta tell you I
◼
►
was a typesetter strange the types are
◼
►
never worked in newspapers but I work
◼
►
with older typesetters and work with all
◼
►
these people in the printing industry
◼
►
and they always had the story in the
◼
►
newspaper printing plants to be the guy
◼
►
who is like the line type operator and
◼
►
the Linotype machines that were taken
◼
►
out 20 years before and he's been
◼
►
drawing a salary for 20 years the guy
◼
►
who you know was the LED polar or
◼
►
whatever like all these jobs and there's
◼
►
the guy and then lots of plants were so
◼
►
Union run that there is like a big stop
◼
►
button management roles but came in they
◼
►
would hit the stop button stop the
◼
►
presses until management left like that
◼
►
and so you had even with incredibly
◼
►
bloated inefficient printing plants that
◼
►
were padded with all these people who
◼
►
did nothing and all these extraneous
◼
►
employees and union benefits and
◼
►
everything else even with that they're
◼
►
getting twenty and twenty-five percent
◼
►
profit margin right and it so what I
◼
►
love about something like the magazine
◼
►
is that the magazine is to me i have
◼
►
always seemed like what I do a daring
◼
►
fireball is being a reset button on
◼
►
of what would it take to set up a new
◼
►
business that is sustainable and the
◼
►
employee count is 1 me and I'm a little
◼
►
lucky there because i have a computer
◼
►
science degree and I used to do web
◼
►
programming and so in terms of actual
◼
►
and there really isn't day the day
◼
►
there's not much web mercury I need to
◼
►
do to keep it going but i did get to I
◼
►
in its early days you know I could set
◼
►
everything up i could move servers i can
◼
►
do stuff like that by myself if there is
◼
►
a problem i can ssh into the server and
◼
►
but clumsily full around and see if you
◼
►
know what the hell's going on here so
◼
►
it's a little easier to be a one-man
◼
►
show or at least starting 10 years ago
◼
►
with a technical background today I
◼
►
think it's easy with with you know
◼
►
things like Tumblr and square space and
◼
►
the ways that you know the wordpress
◼
►
hosting sites wordpress.org and it's
◼
►
really easy for someone who doesn't have
◼
►
a technical background to do the same
◼
►
thing I think today wasn't so easy 10
◼
►
yeah it was kinda cool that with the
◼
►
magazine's he's an iOS programmer and he
◼
►
spent you know nice is he can just make
◼
►
an iOS app it's not just make but you
◼
►
know it's it's some amount of effort
◼
►
that he knows what it takes to do it and
◼
►
can replicate it and it's kind of the
◼
►
equivalent of like okay how do i set up
◼
►
an apache server in 1997 right exactly
◼
►
well any other thing that he has it's a
◼
►
nice advantage to is with instapaper
◼
►
under his belt and with a happy fairly
◼
►
large customer base he kind of knows
◼
►
what people like experience-wise I you
◼
►
know what I want in an app that they're
◼
►
going to a reading experience on these
◼
►
handful of devices ipads iphones what
◼
►
are they gonna do what works what is
◼
►
what did they click on what are they
◼
►
so he was able to build that and that's
◼
►
a huge advantage on but then
◼
►
fundamentally just economically it it's
◼
►
so simple you just hit the reset button
◼
►
okay now you've got ya a two-dollar
◼
►
subscription per month you get two
◼
►
issues per month and with you know ten
◼
►
twenty thousand subscribers all of a
◼
►
sudden or whatever the numbers you know
◼
►
just throwing out numbers like that i
◼
►
actually don't know but you know it's
◼
►
obviously hit a point though where with
◼
►
X thousands of dollars a month you
◼
►
can hey 45 writers for an issue a nice
◼
►
you know industry competitive amount for
◼
►
the articles you can pay an editor and
◼
►
you can have money left over for profit
◼
►
yeah and that's what house even getting
◼
►
into advertising it happen is you
◼
►
haven't even started and that's apple
◼
►
thing thirty percent off the top to
◼
►
write and bully for them in so yeah
◼
►
that's the that's the thing is when
◼
►
Marcus put out some numbers but you know
◼
►
he said after the first issue posts me
◼
►
to look you know this is becoming
◼
►
sustainable venture he's paying nearly
◼
►
magazine rates for writing I i was
◼
►
surprised and pleased what he wants
◼
►
offering this is my i'm going to be you
◼
►
Candyman here this next year like I'm so
◼
►
excited about the amount of money i'm
◼
►
going to be able to pay other people for
◼
►
good writing is actually more exciting
◼
►
to me then whatever money I make from
◼
►
working on it because there's such a
◼
►
dearth of opportunities for people to
◼
►
both be published and to be paid an
◼
►
appropriate livable like just even
◼
►
livable wages not he's not paying a wage
◼
►
that means that people can make two
◼
►
hundred thousand dollars a year if they
◼
►
wrote full-time for he's paying wages in
◼
►
these people can actually live a
◼
►
probably lower to middle class existence
◼
►
which is where we've gotten writing I i
◼
►
got paid fifty cents of word by the new
◼
►
york times in 1998 and and then many
◼
►
years later too although they changed a
◼
►
I was told by friends that the New York
◼
►
Times paid fifty cents a word in 1970
◼
►
you know it's really not that it's yes i
◼
►
would say that's not good because that
◼
►
Lord article is a lot of work and a lot
◼
►
of worry come away with him
◼
►
let me check for 505 yeah so I mean
◼
►
that's this is part of the thing is like
◼
►
publications have evolved to a point at
◼
►
which they believe if you look at the
◼
►
management structures in the top-heavy
◼
►
structures of most publications they
◼
►
believe writers are interchangeable and
◼
►
uninteresting and I mean writers are
◼
►
branded or a big brand-name malcolm
◼
►
gladwell things and not choosing new
◼
►
yorker of this of all places but there's
◼
►
this attitude that the content is the
◼
►
least important part of the packaging
◼
►
reselling marketing advertising around
◼
►
it is and this attitude is pervasive and
◼
►
so Marco i think is coming out of the
◼
►
way around like if you're starting from
◼
►
how would you build a publication date
◼
►
can be an iOS app it's the easy smallest
◼
►
lowest-hanging fruit to reach the
◼
►
largest number of people with the least
◼
►
amount of effort it's got millions of
◼
►
already who know and trust in those
◼
►
products so he doesn't have to worry
◼
►
about the marketing side of reaching
◼
►
those people and then he started out
◼
►
with the idea of going to pay a
◼
►
competitive rate which we hope will
◼
►
improve over time and see echoes and so
◼
►
right now it's sustainable we could do
◼
►
this forever and I also think you know
◼
►
compared to traditional magazines which
◼
►
heavily add based and therefore have
◼
►
these you know and there's the whole
◼
►
complex whole situation with advertising
◼
►
in a magazine like New Yorker Sports
◼
►
Illustrated or the economist and you
◼
►
know selling these backpage ads and
◼
►
inside front cover ads and and then
◼
►
filling up the back of the book with all
◼
►
its enormous amount of work something
◼
►
like the magazine can start from scratch
◼
►
and go with the like less of an
◼
►
advertising model more of a sponsorship
◼
►
model and maybe just have one sponsor
◼
►
I and and maybe leave money on the table
◼
►
that way but also not have to have a
◼
►
full-time ad sales staff don't even have
◼
►
there's a funny thing that happened at a
◼
►
time like I can tell you firsthand with
◼
►
you go with the sponsorship model you
◼
►
don't need anybody you know you can do
◼
►
yeah this is and that's what is pursued
◼
►
but there's this funny thing is once you
◼
►
get to a certain level of scalar
◼
►
interest you can ask for a premium rate
◼
►
and not have to be selling a thousand
◼
►
little pieces and have somebody in
◼
►
charge of it but I'm you know so mark
◼
►
and I have this discussion i'll expose
◼
►
the discussion we have he's talked about
◼
►
it publicly as he he wants to be every
◼
►
other weekend he's thought about it
◼
►
talking publicly about it perhaps being
◼
►
weekly I would agitate potentially
◼
►
foregoing weekly at some point although
◼
►
that'll you know mean a lot different
◼
►
editorial schedule and so forth
◼
►
he's worried it'll be too much for
◼
►
people to read that if he's promising
◼
►
for 5 articles every two weeks if we
◼
►
certainly did say just for articles
◼
►
every week that maybe more attention
◼
►
than people want to give so with
◼
►
subscriptions go up because it's a
◼
►
better value it's more articles or
◼
►
subscriptions go down because people are
◼
►
saying all now this has become a chore
◼
►
so that is even a fascinating position
◼
►
to be and where you're saying we could
◼
►
potentially you know either some dollars
◼
►
which there and could we do double
◼
►
subscriptions by having more probably
◼
►
not in that ratio but don't have become
◼
►
more appealing to people if there's more
◼
►
content because it's more likely they'll
◼
►
be interested in something in every
◼
►
issue right and maybe now if they don't
◼
►
like the 4 5 articles they have to wait
◼
►
two weeks and they resubscribe if they
◼
►
don't like everything or two or three H
◼
►
so there's that's that's part of what we
◼
►
have to be much more interesting every
◼
►
and perhaps weekly as well I like a
◼
►
problem it is but I think it's uh you
◼
►
know i-i've when Marco first ran the
◼
►
idea past me hey do you think this makes
◼
►
sense i I really you know I just thought
◼
►
yeah of course it's decided this is I
◼
►
think it's a sure thing I think it's a
◼
►
question of how big of a hit is it gonna
◼
►
Edwards that was my spot I thought it
◼
►
was just a great idea and a great
◼
►
opportunity and you know i do I I'm
◼
►
could not be more bullish on that the
◼
►
prospects going forward of the magazine
◼
►
it's great now the whole challenge now
◼
►
is to get interesting people who want to
◼
►
write you know deep interesting things
◼
►
that we've had some I mean the early
◼
►
response was great and I've been going
◼
►
through a lot of what I did for
◼
►
marketers go through hundreds of pitches
◼
►
that we've gotten and we're trying to
◼
►
find more research to reported stories
◼
►
because we're paying enough to get
◼
►
people to go out and do that kind of
◼
►
thing so we'll have personal essays will
◼
►
have you know general essays about
◼
►
things that like you know wet shaving
◼
►
and cup of tea i keep going back to
◼
►
things like gina trapani he's great
◼
►
piece about uh vitro fertilization or
◼
►
partners such a one of my favorites so
◼
►
far maybe my favorite maybe my favorite
◼
►
piece from the magazine so far they're
◼
►
all my children so I can't play
◼
►
favorites but it was I think it hit a
◼
►
perfect balance between personal story
◼
►
research and technology and and like
◼
►
this this sort of thing that's totally
◼
►
Universal the people the feeling you
◼
►
have when you read it right and so we're
◼
►
striving for some balance of those
◼
►
components in every story and so we're
◼
►
you know we're kind of bunch of really
◼
►
fun stuff i went to library of
◼
►
congress's buried archives in Virginia
◼
►
and I'm writing an account of that of
◼
►
where they keep their audio-visual
◼
►
materials and vaults in Culpeper
◼
►
Virginia so that'll that'll be fun to
◼
►
write you're going to do it for the
◼
►
yes this is I pitched it before I got
◼
►
the editor yes here's my question for
◼
►
you and and this is one it is one of the
◼
►
questions I have written out here for
◼
►
you is because you have this widely like
◼
►
i said before you the economist New
◼
►
Yorker you you pitch you you you still
◼
►
write freelance for a lot of different
◼
►
publications now that you're the editor
◼
►
of the magazine how much how hard is
◼
►
that going to be for you to decide where
◼
►
to do your writing like should I still
◼
►
pitch this 4x publication or should I
◼
►
just do this for the net for the
◼
►
magazine well i'm going to be mark i
◼
►
just talked about this recently in fact
◼
►
is that not about my side of it by
◼
►
neither of us want to dominate be
◼
►
dominant voice and especially every
◼
►
other week so you are trying to some of
◼
►
the writers are early issues
◼
►
we're trying to space them out too so I
◼
►
i will be surprised if i write more than
◼
►
every four issues if that just because
◼
►
then it becomes too much as it should be
◼
►
a platform for me and marcos written
◼
►
more the early days because you know
◼
►
he's trying to set the tone and so forth
◼
►
and he'll probably be in less than less
◼
►
to for the same reason why room for more
◼
►
voices but there is this thing which is
◼
►
I did this I'd through a just a fluke
◼
►
interview the fellow who's the head of
◼
►
the audio section at the library of
◼
►
congress and he said I've never out you
◼
►
have time come out to culpeper and I did
◼
►
I didn't have an outlet for it and the
◼
►
inside i feel i got from seeing what the
◼
►
library of congress is doing with our
◼
►
audio-visual history there's not really
◼
►
a place that would run an article like
◼
►
that aspects of it maybe some technical
◼
►
thing about how you extract sound from
◼
►
wax cylinders or so I'm gonna peace a
◼
►
year ago in fact based on some an
◼
►
interview i did with this fella about
◼
►
the phonogram right this obscure thing
◼
►
that prevents audio from being used the
◼
►
phonogram light right last 200 years
◼
►
this point everything Edison's first
◼
►
utterance 'as on a wax cylinder are
◼
►
still under protection by the photograph
◼
►
right until 2067 it was this crazy thing
◼
►
everything in audio no audio will expire
◼
►
until 2067 from the audio part of the
◼
►
protection as opposed to the copyright
◼
►
of the underlying composition or words
◼
►
and it's this is historically weird
◼
►
thing to ever think about that for the
◼
►
Economist it's perfect weekends for the
◼
►
blog and and it highlights is really odd
◼
►
aspect of where digital culture collides
◼
►
with analog culture and to some extent
◼
►
science so but to find a place where i
◼
►
can write about you know what's the
◼
►
what's the inside impact and seeing our
◼
►
cultural memory in this form and the
◼
►
restrictions on scanning access to it
◼
►
because of copyright and other bakeries
◼
►
there's not really not that we do that
◼
►
now the Atlantic there are places like
◼
►
the Atlantic New Yorker Harper's they
◼
►
might run articles like that but it
◼
►
would be much bigger this would be
◼
►
something I'd spend months on the
◼
►
compensation would probably not good
◼
►
enough for it I've talked to people
◼
►
who've written freelance for some of
◼
►
these publications and the experience is
◼
►
magnificent but they can't put money on
◼
►
the table to say the contract
◼
►
or a staff job to have money on the
◼
►
table can't put on the table put money
◼
►
on the table unless they have an ongoing
◼
►
relationship where they're just
◼
►
committed to writing some amount it's
◼
►
tough business so being able to write
◼
►
short interesting things so he's like
◼
►
well you know a thousand-word range and
◼
►
get paid well for them is actually sort
◼
►
of hard to find unless it's either very
◼
►
technical or very poorly with you not
◼
►
coming will pay for getting tiny number
◼
►
of cents per word now I think it's very
◼
►
exciting and I can't you know I think
◼
►
the fact that said the magazine is
◼
►
already paying competitive rates and
◼
►
like you said maybe as time goes on
◼
►
maybe even might push that forward and
◼
►
actually pay leading rates
◼
►
I'm and why not i mean what if that
◼
►
drove subscription what if we could get
◼
►
I mean this is the thought of it that
◼
►
it's completely contrary to the way the
◼
►
magazine industry is gone and i'm not
◼
►
talking out of school here I mean this
◼
►
is I tried you know private discussions
◼
►
or private but this is the you know also
◼
►
this isn't some of my head is what if it
◼
►
were that we could pay of the best rate
◼
►
in the magazine industry what writers we
◼
►
get and this is not to be offensive to
◼
►
the writers have been there already we
◼
►
have some great people are a terrific
◼
►
writer is writing for us already
◼
►
but what if we could get the leading it
◼
►
but we would all agree i mean i know i'm
◼
►
not the leading rider in the country i
◼
►
know there's people who I would be
◼
►
delighted to have their words the
◼
►
magazine's People I pick up publications
◼
►
going to buy them because articles by
◼
►
them in there what if some of the
◼
►
leading on fiction writers in the
◼
►
countryside oh well I should be in the
◼
►
magazine and so we have people like me
◼
►
and the magazine who are very you know
◼
►
where we are competent hard-working we
◼
►
write good stuff people like to read
◼
►
this and we have people who are names
◼
►
because they're very very very good
◼
►
these are the people you idolize you
◼
►
know a jon krakauer something like that
◼
►
he demands a huge feet what if we can
◼
►
pay rate where he's an entrepreneur do
◼
►
that but we could be that same thing to
◼
►
him and I can say to pay the same fee
◼
►
too damn moron or whatever
◼
►
yeah no I think it's a terribly excited
◼
►
astok the other one last thing but on
◼
►
the magazine before we look over that is
◼
►
is the other thing too that reminds me
◼
►
of the early days of the web is that the
◼
►
magazine itself that the app is better
◼
►
than as good or better than all of the
◼
►
big-name magazine app store it is truck
◼
►
and it's totally true the weather and it
◼
►
is this 20 is this in Congress thing and
◼
►
i saw it was one of the reasons that a
◼
►
decade ago I saw daring fireball is an
◼
►
opportunity is either
◼
►
but I can make a better a better website
◼
►
then these guys these big name cup guys
◼
►
you haven't over from print can do
◼
►
because i'm going to do something that
◼
►
is clean i'm going to do something that
◼
►
is not cluttered I'm gonna do something
◼
►
that is that looks good and instead of
◼
►
looking back and there are some
◼
►
magazines that have gotten better over
◼
►
time the new yorker app has gotten a lot
◼
►
better over time where it's not it's no
◼
►
longer published as a series of static
◼
►
images its actual text and they use
◼
►
fonts and they sort of have a magazine
◼
►
the magazine type layout now where you
◼
►
go side to side between articles but an
◼
►
individual article Scrolls down but it
◼
►
used to be and you can still easily find
◼
►
big-name print magazines that have apps
◼
►
where I get completely lost two clicks
◼
►
into the thing where am i how do I get
◼
►
how do i go to the next article I mean
◼
►
easily you just get it's so easy to get
◼
►
lost and the magazine is just simple
◼
►
table of contents on the left article
◼
►
yeah i mean this is where I think you
◼
►
get that benefit maturity is that you
◼
►
know I we all have pity for the magazine
◼
►
publishers in that notion of pity i
◼
►
Guess's they didn't invest money
◼
►
figuring out how to do it right in
◼
►
mobile formats for the most part before
◼
►
like the ipad came along right in some
◼
►
did some early out but even doing it
◼
►
correctly you know for decent web
◼
►
browsers in 2008-2009 and so you're
◼
►
still watching 02 or two years in the
◼
►
ipad you're still watching them fumble
◼
►
around to figure it out and you're
◼
►
gradually seeing the clarity and there's
◼
►
a huge divergent paths between the ones
◼
►
that you're like I like the new yorker
◼
►
app now i can use it it's good the
◼
►
economist app started out I think a
◼
►
little rough not bad but now it really
◼
►
has that iconic feel of the magazine
◼
►
without being beholden to write and I i
◼
►
actually i'll often have read the whole
◼
►
issue on the phone and get the print
◼
►
issue and I'm like oh I don't need this
◼
►
anymore just realized i read it but in
◼
►
my mind I can hardly differentiate the
◼
►
experience because the branding and the
◼
►
sort of is our are equal and I think so
◼
►
Marco gets the advantage of having spent
◼
►
years figuring out what that experience
◼
►
should be and then he supplies the
◼
►
lessons you can learn from scratch and
◼
►
not having to answer to any idiot
◼
►
dumbass protectionists pull your head
◼
►
out of your ass guys above him so that
◼
►
when the magazine launch he could
◼
►
actually honestly on ironically
◼
►
promote as features that you can select
◼
►
and copy text and it's later though
◼
►
it we laugh but that actually is a
◼
►
competitive advantage that the magazine
◼
►
has over most magazines in newsstand is
◼
►
that you tense can swipe partial page at
◼
►
a time don't have to swipe the screen at
◼
►
a time right is a future
◼
►
alright i have a couple of things i
◼
►
wanna talk about let's take a break it
◼
►
and i want to tell you about our second
◼
►
sponsor I and i am really really
◼
►
impressed by this app it's an app for
◼
►
the iphone and ipad called gritter gri
◼
►
DD itor and it's a photo editor for
◼
►
iphone and ipad and I talked about this
◼
►
on the show before and it's just it this
◼
►
is like the perfect type of thing I'm
◼
►
talking about where I have been
◼
►
frustrated with the photo editing apps
◼
►
i'm talking about things like correcting
◼
►
exposure brightness applying filters and
◼
►
looks color balance and stuff like that
◼
►
to photos as your posting from the
◼
►
iphone and that I feel like a lot of
◼
►
these apps are way too fiddly and that
◼
►
they're sort of stock UI wise in ways
◼
►
that aren't aren't that I don't I just
◼
►
feel like there's something out there
◼
►
that is different and I'll tell you what
◼
►
gritter is really really different and I
◼
►
really like the way that goes the basic
◼
►
idea is you pick a photo to start with
◼
►
you go just pick a photo from your
◼
►
camera roll that you want to edit and it
◼
►
starts out in the middle of a grid and
◼
►
in all four directions there are filters
◼
►
and adjustments so for example you might
◼
►
have at the top brightness and on the
◼
►
I something like a toy camera filter and
◼
►
the grid gets filled in with if you go
◼
►
straight up towards brightness with a
◼
►
series of thumbnails of your image
◼
►
getting brighter and brighter and
◼
►
brighter until you get to a maximum
◼
►
brightness and on the right as the
◼
►
filter this toy camera style filter gets
◼
►
stronger and stronger and stronger but
◼
►
then along the diagonal you get
◼
►
thumbnails that are a combination of the
◼
►
two brighter and this filter and you can
◼
►
pick how strong they are and you can
◼
►
just scroll around what I guess I would
◼
►
call the canvas of this grid of
◼
►
thumbnails and just see them and see how
◼
►
this works and if you don't like what
◼
►
you can just set a new set of filters
◼
►
and new sort of combination of these
◼
►
things but the thing that I really like
◼
►
about it is that as you explore these
◼
►
combinations of the things it's all
◼
►
visual and you don't have to sit there
◼
►
and play with like how strong it's
◼
►
making you just see it already because
◼
►
the thumbnails are already on string on
◼
►
I I haven't seen there's a whole bunch
◼
►
of photo editing apps for the iPhone
◼
►
that to me work with the exact same user
◼
►
interface and there's different you know
◼
►
you can it's up here taste how much you
◼
►
this one has an interface that to me is
◼
►
like nothing else I've seen before
◼
►
really really like it i and i will
◼
►
emphasize that there's two different
◼
►
type of things you can do with the
◼
►
adjustments in greater one our basic
◼
►
edit controls these are things like
◼
►
brightness contrast sharpening ah and
◼
►
then second are the Instagram style
◼
►
filters these vintage type things
◼
►
ah like bleach bypass toy camera stuff
◼
►
I and so if you are interested in that
◼
►
whole sort of retro filtering sort of
◼
►
adjustment type thing it's still great
◼
►
app because you have these basic things
◼
►
like making a brighter darkness sharper
◼
►
adjusting the filtered going black and
◼
►
ah or the other way around if you only
◼
►
are interested in putting filters on
◼
►
your on your pictures it's a great
◼
►
collection of filters and I really
◼
►
really like the way that you get to
◼
►
adjust how strong it is so you can just
◼
►
go a little tad in this direction or you
◼
►
can go really really strong in this
◼
►
direction and you can see it before
◼
►
before you finalize it really really
◼
►
good app i've been using a lot the last
◼
►
two weeks for the pictures i've been
◼
►
posted to instagram i it's it's really
◼
►
really impressive and I think the
◼
►
developer has a lot of good ideas going
◼
►
forward for how it's going to improve
◼
►
with new new filters and adjustment so
◼
►
you can check it out there's two ways to
◼
►
you can go to grid or dot-com gri DD
◼
►
itor grid with 2 d's itor calm / the
◼
►
I or you could just go to the app store
◼
►
and search for greater you can tell this
◼
►
is one of those things to where i can
◼
►
just I just love when a sponsor is
◼
►
a listener of the show because ty
◼
►
shimizu the developer of the app in the
◼
►
email was where we're talking about what
◼
►
I should talk about on the show he said
◼
►
at the end feel free to mispronounce
◼
►
creditor as long as I spell it out but
◼
►
I'm not quite sure Adam is pronounced it
◼
►
i feel like i've gotten into this thing
◼
►
now we're unexpected mispronounced all
◼
►
the sponsor names but like talks it's
◼
►
impossible to mispronounce it it's
◼
►
actually tonic something no no greater
◼
►
and greater this is you know this is I
◼
►
think this is a great where maybe maybe
◼
►
grid or daring fireball theme in general
◼
►
I think and one of the things that I
◼
►
think it's like I love the fact that we
◼
►
have all of these small developers many
◼
►
people figure out a way to make either
◼
►
part or all of their living and
◼
►
sometimes have many employees even but
◼
►
they're still these independent shops
◼
►
auteur vision you know the clarity of
◼
►
they're not answering to other people
◼
►
there's no investors it's just a
◼
►
bootstrap themselves they're doing
◼
►
something that is what they want to do
◼
►
and coincidentally something that we all
◼
►
like him on a bike that's great yeah our
◼
►
knowledge economy great great app really
◼
►
really encourage you guys to buy it and
◼
►
and support to show and support really
◼
►
really innovative to me and interface in
◼
►
in photo editing for iOS
◼
►
so where it shows already gone long but
◼
►
I want to talk a little bit about some
◼
►
of the news that's going on this week
◼
►
the big news i think it's an office key
◼
►
Steven Sinofsky getting getting the boot
◼
►
from Microsoft holy cow will the yeah
◼
►
and I think you can exchange we
◼
►
exchanged tweets about this the the
◼
►
analysis I've seen a few places was he
◼
►
was seen as the successor and was
◼
►
clearly told he wasn't gonna be alright
◼
►
and so he said alright well that's
◼
►
enough I'm done you know if I'm not
◼
►
there is no there's a glass ceiling and
◼
►
bomber standing on it so goodbye and and
◼
►
that would make sense and yeah I not
◼
►
tell you know I met with him for the
◼
►
first and I guess only time that he's
◼
►
going to be a Microsoft I met with him I
◼
►
got a nice little 10-minute meet you
◼
►
know at the windows 8 event in New York
◼
►
two weeks ago I and i'm not going to say
◼
►
I have any you know whether he had any
◼
►
inkling or not I you know I don't think
◼
►
I would have been able to pick up on it
◼
►
anyway but I i I'd I can't help but
◼
►
think that he didn't because I do feel
◼
►
that he had a lot of ideas
◼
►
going forward you know like one of the
◼
►
things we had talked about was that uh
◼
►
that windows 8 was designed with a more
◼
►
like iOS style update schedule in mind
◼
►
where it's going to be a lot easier for
◼
►
people who have let's say like a surface
◼
►
to get an upgrade you know when if
◼
►
windows 8.1 comes out or something I
◼
►
don't pick a version number but it's
◼
►
gonna be a lot more like a way that iOS
◼
►
devices and Android devices more like
◼
►
the mobile world where device updates
◼
►
can get pushed to you and you can stay
◼
►
you know new features can be added than
◼
►
the old pc world where it has been a bit
◼
►
of a grind a lot of people don't upgrade
◼
►
until they buy a new machine and he
◼
►
seemed very excited about that
◼
►
yeah i'm i'm wondering if it's uh you
◼
►
know they shipped eight and they huddled
◼
►
with the board and whatever else he said
◼
►
ok you know I did this thing we've got
◼
►
the markets out there we did an
◼
►
incredible thing and what's next and was
◼
►
told bombers here frist reupping MCO or
◼
►
not gonna get more responsibility
◼
►
because it was weird you know he didn't
◼
►
fail he did a great job
◼
►
I mean for all the flaws that you want
◼
►
to that we could point out with windows
◼
►
8 or surface or strategy that there's a
◼
►
lot of things but i think this is
◼
►
Microsoft's the best thing they've done
◼
►
I don't know since when well he has 22
◼
►
successfully sort of he has two
◼
►
successes under his belt with Windows
◼
►
and Office was always offers never hit
◼
►
those roadblocks you know he used to be
◼
►
in charge of office and office continue
◼
►
to ship on time through that dry period
◼
►
the XP years where I for vista was stuck
◼
►
forever you know the one was called long
◼
►
war and they haven't given me actually
◼
►
had to give it a new name just because a
◼
►
long-winded had been it just have gotten
◼
►
so windows vista shipped and was you
◼
►
know widely you know it collectively
◼
►
considered a bat you know pretty pretty
◼
►
terrible release unpopular not not well
◼
►
that's when he took over windows he had
◼
►
nothing to do with this day he was in
◼
►
charge of office then so they have said
◼
►
sonakshi's done a good job with office
◼
►
will give him windows windows seven was
◼
►
absolutely and worship and release it
◼
►
was a improvement in every way and just
◼
►
shot on dresser address with lsr it's
◼
►
got that had better security
◼
►
enrich mobile said that windows seven
◼
►
had better security than of which 10
◼
►
tops 6 or 10 i said that they had done
◼
►
so much more that was right and you see
◼
►
that that's when all the malware people
◼
►
look better to you moved to flash and
◼
►
third-party apps because they could no
◼
►
longer exploit windows look better work
◼
►
what was the biggest technical problem
◼
►
which was security stuff and I can't
◼
►
emphasize it enough most importantly
◼
►
shipped on time then windows 8 huge
◼
►
innovation in terms of the interface in
◼
►
that conception of it you know the true
◼
►
revolution in the interface of windows
◼
►
shipped on time right whether or not you
◼
►
agree with the choices they made they
◼
►
were not modeled choices i mean you
◼
►
could say that model energy eternity too
◼
►
many fish and fowl and whatever but in
◼
►
terms of execution they did exactly what
◼
►
they said and they will be improvements
◼
►
it's kind of a 1.1 certain aspects of
◼
►
weathering surface is entirely new kind
◼
►
of product for them what they're trying
◼
►
to achieve with it but I mean all that
◼
►
aside it's like yeah they did it they
◼
►
manage stupid windows 7 windows 8
◼
►
they've got windows phone 8 is a witness
◼
►
phone was a huge deal i think you don't
◼
►
you get that out the door and then to
◼
►
upgrade that and they've made painful
◼
►
picturemate steve jobs like choices
◼
►
whether like although i think it was
◼
►
unfortunate for windows phone 7 owner
◼
►
and thought you'd be able to get an
◼
►
upgrade 28 they still did it didn't say
◼
►
because this is the problem i know a guy
◼
►
were continuing engineering at Microsoft
◼
►
for a number of years until several
◼
►
years ago it was in the XP to vista and
◼
►
that days and there was so much croft
◼
►
they had a support forever in windows
◼
►
one of the reasons windows never got
◼
►
better until I would say seven is that
◼
►
seven cut off a lot more of the past
◼
►
that's why you have this big XP seven
◼
►
gap you can't just move and you couldn't
◼
►
move everything XP to vista either but
◼
►
seven they just said we're not
◼
►
supporting contain engineering for stuff
◼
►
that ran 15 years ago and that's the
◼
►
same painful choice they made with
◼
►
Windows Phone 8 whether or not they
◼
►
should engineered phone 7 to be
◼
►
upgradeable or not they still made that
◼
►
decision i'm definitely and I think the
◼
►
other thing that was very clear to me
◼
►
always iives you know it only reaffirmed
◼
►
what my guesses were coming into meeting
◼
►
and talking to him but even with just 10
◼
►
minutes talking to him he is clearly a
◼
►
like he he knows the surface and he
◼
►
knows what Windows 8 is he
◼
►
it is what he wants it to be and he
◼
►
really had a vision for what it what it
◼
►
he is not absolutely was not just a 80
◼
►
time at the top of the pole like he
◼
►
drove the design of it and in ways that
◼
►
I think we're very clearly that you need
◼
►
somebody like that you know that the
◼
►
auteur at the top of the you know
◼
►
enormous engineering team behind the
◼
►
whole thing to drive it with a vision
◼
►
for where it's going so I would believe
◼
►
it was a it was a you know
◼
►
ok it's time to time to figure out my
◼
►
next plan is and they said just keep
◼
►
doing what you're doing i said i've been
◼
►
here 20 years that's ready i'm ready to
◼
►
treat to do something else with my money
◼
►
and I talking about right
◼
►
many millions and millions of dollars
◼
►
you can start your company there's lots
◼
►
a lot of stuff that happens in Seattle
◼
►
that could be interesting and he could
◼
►
do something green field that's not
◼
►
beholden to the past and take his
◼
►
expertise and do thats ok well the
◼
►
interesting thing that will end it just
◼
►
you know it just does seem oddly
◼
►
coincidental a lot of people are drawing
◼
►
drawing connections to scott forstall
◼
►
attacked and for the obvious reason that
◼
►
he was in charge of the the company's
◼
►
flagship OS right that's that's both of
◼
►
those guys iOS is clearly apples windows
◼
►
i had a reputation for being difficult
◼
►
to work with have a you know you know
◼
►
seems like similar complaints about
◼
►
their their management style or
◼
►
collaboration across the company and
◼
►
perhaps you know or ambitiously both a
◼
►
wanted to be CEO of the company
◼
►
yeah I think that's it is right they
◼
►
bump up against that and these are
◼
►
people who built huge victims and and
◼
►
loyalties inside the company apart from
◼
►
say loyalty to the CEO of the company
◼
►
and their decision and I also yeah I
◼
►
also think there's a lot of loyalty
◼
►
underneath them in their divisions to
◼
►
both of them like one thing that I think
◼
►
is sort of maybe it's gotten
◼
►
misperceived out there with forestall is
◼
►
that the the sort of yeah everybody
◼
►
knows he was kind of difficult to work
◼
►
with so you know it's not totally
◼
►
shocking that this happened very
◼
►
surprising the difference between
◼
►
surprising and shocking right it's
◼
►
surprising but not shocking but then I
◼
►
feel like that's been
◼
►
hold up into this nut shell of well
◼
►
forestall was an asshole so good riddens
◼
►
and that's not the case at all
◼
►
there are people who worked under
◼
►
forestall who I've heard from who are
◼
►
very very anxious and nervous because
◼
►
they think you know that maybe forestall
◼
►
was the last you know that he was enough
◼
►
like steve jobs and had that his
◼
►
ambition was good for Apple because it
◼
►
made him not complacent and you know one
◼
►
of the things i heard from somebody
◼
►
worked under him yes he was an asshole
◼
►
and and difficult to work with across
◼
►
divisions but a lot of that he used to
◼
►
protect his people and my projects that
◼
►
they were doing and that the people a
◼
►
lot of the people who worked under him
◼
►
felt like forestall had their back and
◼
►
it's the people who were outside his
◼
►
team who didn't like him
◼
►
yeah so it is absolutely in no way like
◼
►
a no-brainer hey apples better off
◼
►
without forestall I mean that's yeah
◼
►
that's what I hear as well as that he
◼
►
had he had a lot of loyalty it was just
◼
►
if you want to do something didn't want
◼
►
to do if you're outside this group then
◼
►
you know I can't wait to live from
◼
►
singleton do when the talk that Michael
◼
►
op gave about was probably about
◼
►
building teams like someone has to be a
◼
►
I mean that was part of this i love this
◼
►
talk and i can't wait till it's up
◼
►
online because everyone should watch
◼
►
this and it's about it's a really
◼
►
beautiful talk about the importance of
◼
►
somebody making a decision and how a
◼
►
group can make the decision that someone
◼
►
has to make a decision how to get to a
◼
►
point when someone's gonna say this is
◼
►
it as opposed to the you know Monty
◼
►
Python like we have a rotating executive
◼
►
authority and we have a council that
◼
►
proves the maximum of the anarchic
◼
►
syndicated notes like now someone has to
◼
►
make a decision that's the only way good
◼
►
things happen is there is a person who
◼
►
says that in the end and that's the boss
◼
►
or at some other point in a group
◼
►
whatever but you make that decision
◼
►
absolutely and it comes to making those
◼
►
decisions the one thing that strikes me
◼
►
as a big difference between the
◼
►
Microsoft and Apple situations is that
◼
►
you look at microsoft and over the last
◼
►
five years or so maybe even fewer than
◼
►
that but that the list of top-level
◼
►
executives who were in charge of product
◼
►
stuff who then I don't you know whether
◼
►
they were pushed or whether they jumped
◼
►
who knows but who left is a pretty
◼
►
significant here's the list island is
◼
►
you've got Robbie Bach who I African
◼
►
with exactly i think he was involved
◼
►
he was he would say a lot about to say
◼
►
but we had a roadblock i think was over
◼
►
top xbox and zune i think was under his
◼
►
authority j allard who is xbox and finer
◼
►
bach and showered together we're the
◼
►
guys who computed to be behind the
◼
►
career tablet project that got scrapped
◼
►
at internets disputed how far along it
◼
►
was but that it was a couple years ago
◼
►
though and there's you know a potential
◼
►
there that those guys could have shipped
◼
►
a8 innovative tablet type project a
◼
►
couple of years ago if they had been
◼
►
allowed to Ray Ozzy out you know
◼
►
obviously was widely seen as a possible
◼
►
next CEO of of the company and Stephen
◼
►
Elop who is priced out and now is the
◼
►
CEO at nokia and this is not you know i
◼
►
wish i had written her name down and but
◼
►
it was it's enough skis
◼
►
second-in-command who's taking over
◼
►
windows for now we actually sounds
◼
►
kick-ass i was reading about her
◼
►
background and her approach and the pic
◼
►
the way they're even the people school
◼
►
stuff that's talked about is like she
◼
►
could be a rich she sounds like she's
◼
►
going to be a really terrific
◼
►
replacement from where she comes from
◼
►
I gotta look this up because it's that's
◼
►
good job what you think i can google for
◼
►
sandusky replacement exactly a lady
◼
►
replacement for Snuffy so important
◼
►
others to women this is a microsoft
◼
►
elections always been having literally
◼
►
much Julie larson-green ya-ya and she
◼
►
just she sounds absolutely phenomenal in
◼
►
a very positive way right and and she is
◼
►
getting a lot of credit for spearheading
◼
►
the design of metric oil when I still
◼
►
Richard insist on calling metro which is
◼
►
great so it does sound like there's not
◼
►
exactly it's not like you know there's a
◼
►
vacuum that Sinofsky is out and Beyonce
◼
►
before raising he left he really he
◼
►
really architect the entire approach to
◼
►
data storage and the clouds everything
◼
►
microsoft was doing some sort of law
◼
►
school with Azure and
◼
►
SkyDrive and all the things around the
◼
►
microsoft live for windows live whatever
◼
►
they call it i think all of that stuff
◼
►
either he is responsible for or moved it
◼
►
all together and I think it's hidden
◼
►
what a transformation that is from a
◼
►
company that was based on you know
◼
►
everyone has a personal computer and all
◼
►
the data store locally situation right
◼
►
absolutely and I think that's ir
◼
►
solutely think that's a big part of the
◼
►
yeah is that it's it's built from the
◼
►
ground up with and windows phone 8 that
◼
►
it's built with the ground up that you
◼
►
give it your your live.com or whatever
◼
►
they call it now your Microsoft you know
◼
►
their equivalent of iCloud you give it
◼
►
your login and your data just sinks to
◼
►
the class kind of love that because
◼
►
that's something that Apple could do I
◼
►
still have this idea that Apple is very
◼
►
solipsistic that it thinks it talks
◼
►
about sharing and Home Sharing and
◼
►
networking whatever but it still thinks
◼
►
about one person in one computer and one
◼
►
person on one computer and I'll and over
◼
►
time it's gotten better but the fact
◼
►
that that they don't they don't give you
◼
►
I mean I cloud doesn't really think
◼
►
about you being in different places at
◼
►
different times on different devices the
◼
►
way people actually do it it's getting
◼
►
I think it still needs more important a
◼
►
great way to put its lipstick that is
◼
►
true that the company is there it in
◼
►
Apple's DNA get home sharing for
◼
►
instance related items like oh this will
◼
►
be great it's like i'm sharing a home
◼
►
story about copying stuff between
◼
►
machines apple is always about copying
◼
►
not syncing and not sharing they want to
◼
►
move copies of data that's itunes match
◼
►
and you know they move it stream it
◼
►
whatever in and i can tell you that
◼
►
other people have said like I wish my
◼
►
ipad could have user account so I could
◼
►
have my kids stuff on in my I mean yeah
◼
►
that's not a the wouldn't break apples
◼
►
model of how the ipad work would be an
◼
►
enhancement but they just want you to
◼
►
buy multiple iPads i guess i don't know
◼
►
but anyway no offense to Julie
◼
►
larson-green who does seem like it's a
◼
►
good choice to take over windows but
◼
►
she's she's moving up into the executive
◼
►
ranks at Microsoft in terms of
◼
►
long-standing top-level product first
◼
►
focus executives they're all out like
◼
►
whereas at Apple it's still even with
◼
►
you know that some reasonable amount of
◼
►
turnover over the years you know it with
◼
►
the Bert Ron leaving and are between Ian
◼
►
Rubenstein Rubenstein intelligence
◼
►
liddell there's a long wait but the
◼
►
funny thing is a long list of people
◼
►
left Apple at a high level but they're
◼
►
so long list of people have been there
◼
►
for a long time right johnny is Johnny I
◼
►
people are throwing up so you have ten
◼
►
year plus veterans or 15-year veterans
◼
►
are people go back to next even having
◼
►
lost like seven or eight names you get
◼
►
so in the the you know not to be
◼
►
gruesome but let's say they hit by a bus
◼
►
scenario where tim cook needs to be
◼
►
replaced suddenly are surprisingly I
◼
►
they have a wide range of candidates
◼
►
right there within the company to think
◼
►
about microsoft doesn't it does seem
◼
►
like there's a bit of a Shakespearean uh
◼
►
you know that bomber is a sort of
◼
►
nervous king who soon as anybody you
◼
►
know rises up there they're out you know
◼
►
I think it's true and it's very easy to
◼
►
fail at microsoft and the things you
◼
►
need to succeed and obviously the
◼
►
remarkable job actually succeeding at
◼
►
them is I it's that it's so hard to get
◼
►
anything done that requires breaking
◼
►
silos there and I think surface i want
◼
►
any windows phone seven and eight
◼
►
surface even some smokes and zune
◼
►
because it left them in the ear creating
◼
►
new silo that just bypassed all the
◼
►
existing departments and in windows 8
◼
►
all these things required cooperation
◼
►
and integration among people who don't
◼
►
want to work together and he made it
◼
►
happen and I mean that's what I'm
◼
►
excited about the new Apple organization
◼
►
is the old sort of breakdowns and make
◼
►
sense in the new thing of like services
◼
►
software and hardware is much more
◼
►
sensible in terms of what they need to
◼
►
get done they have to work at a high
◼
►
level across those groups but Microsoft
◼
►
has so many films that it is very very
◼
►
easy to be put in charge of high-profile
◼
►
project and fail because you cannot
◼
►
break through the other high-profile
◼
►
people who don't want to do the thing
◼
►
i seed I could not agree more and i
◼
►
really think you just nailed it and I do
◼
►
think that is too and that's what I'm
◼
►
left at looking at the difference
◼
►
between Apple and Microsoft from a
◼
►
structural standpoint especially post
◼
►
forestall is this lack of product
◼
►
focused silos right where we're
◼
►
forestall had he owned iOS he you know
◼
►
forestall was iOS and that was his
◼
►
fiefdom and it was obviously if you look
◼
►
at Apple what what what iOS means
◼
►
Apple it's a powerful fiefdom uh there
◼
►
isn't anything like that left anymore
◼
►
and and I think the idea is going
◼
►
forward if Apple is going to continue to
◼
►
stay on top they need the same sort of
◼
►
mindset they've had for the last 15
◼
►
years which is this lack of fear of
◼
►
cannibalizing themselves
◼
►
mhm right where it doesn't matter if the
◼
►
iphone makes people stop selling buying
◼
►
music playing ipods because they're just
◼
►
playing music on their iPhone because
◼
►
they're still buying another Apple
◼
►
device it doesn't matter if the ipad
◼
►
makes people stop buying macbooks or buy
◼
►
fewer of them because they're buying an
◼
►
apple device and so if they come up with
◼
►
something that makes people say i don't
◼
►
know stop buying iphones or stop buying
◼
►
iPads as long as it's an apple product
◼
►
it's ok but they don't want to have
◼
►
powerful executives in charge of those
◼
►
things who are blocking it
◼
►
this is the first time Microsoft been in
◼
►
that position where they had the thing
◼
►
that could replace their cash cow right
◼
►
because they own stuff and the way they
◼
►
didn't licensed and have a stake in the
◼
►
success of the phone 8 people stopped
◼
►
buying pcs they're great they're like if
◼
►
they sell a billion surfaces and pc
◼
►
sales drop 95% they're in great shape
◼
►
and that's the first time since ever
◼
►
that's been true for Microsoft time so
◼
►
the way and the way Apple setup is that
◼
►
are there shouldn't be executives
◼
►
blocking that because whatever the new
◼
►
great thing is the hardware is going to
◼
►
be designed by jony ive and the software
◼
►
i guess now we'll be visually and maybe
◼
►
you know it's it's unclear what is roll
◼
►
software will be but you know it is
◼
►
going to be design is johnny knox that
◼
►
that's what he does so it doesn't matter
◼
►
what product the marketing is going to
◼
►
be done by phil schiller doesn't matter
◼
►
it doesn't know shoulder doesn't have to
◼
►
worry about something it's not like
◼
►
those shoulders in charge of ipad
◼
►
marketing is in charge of all Apple
◼
►
marketing the software is going to be
◼
►
engineered by craig federighi is team
◼
►
right so nobody really has a product
◼
►
centric fiefdom to protect as long as
◼
►
it's something new from apple i think
◼
►
it's a very interesting way to structure
◼
►
the executive executives of the company
◼
►
and generally not guaranteed to work i
◼
►
mean the big problem is you've got to
◼
►
come up with these ideas in the first
◼
►
I think that's clearly the vision I've
◼
►
is the is the vice president of director
◼
►
of bauhaus I think he's gonna be all
◼
►
form follows function whatever that
◼
►
means inside the company where he
◼
►
doesn't have to direct the way the
◼
►
hardware works but he's not responsible
◼
►
for the interaction with it as I think
◼
►
he has been I'm so I want to know a big
◼
►
bob mansfield comes up with what is his
◼
►
next direction because he's he is
◼
►
clearly like I think Bob Mansfield
◼
►
nobody's been underrated but the guy is
◼
►
responsible for so much innovation there
◼
►
have so much the behind-the-scenes
◼
►
things clearly the manufacturing side
◼
►
and the advances of hardware he has been
◼
►
key and making those things happen that
◼
►
allow the company to you know sell the
◼
►
ipad at five more dollars introduĂ§Ă£o
◼
►
forth so I want to know what he's
◼
►
working just think about what what I
◼
►
mean I think mansfield gets a huge
◼
►
amount of credit for this I think I
◼
►
believe I'd be shocked if he didn't but
◼
►
I just think about what happened to
◼
►
battery design over the last 10 years
◼
►
like it used to be something I mean I it
◼
►
I can't even remember the last time that
◼
►
I saw a review of an apple product where
◼
►
it did complain about the unremovable
◼
►
battery like they've finally crammed it
◼
►
through everybody's heads out there that
◼
►
this is the way to go with battery
◼
►
design is you know I see more and more
◼
►
you see more reviews what they're
◼
►
complaining about the battery life of
◼
►
other devices that's flipped on its head
◼
►
right tremendously you know whens other
◼
►
devices now have built-in batteries too
◼
►
because they've gone with the shapes
◼
►
lithium right thing as well but these
◼
►
crazy shapes that like II almost spill
◼
►
like a liquid through every available
◼
►
likes home every available square
◼
►
millimeter of space inside the device is
◼
►
taken up by a battery
◼
►
ah i think is a huge you know mansfield
◼
►
driven innovation I think that the you
◼
►
know the way that people think about
◼
►
battery-powered devices is hugely
◼
►
influenced by what he's done over the
◼
►
what's funny is i got the craziest
◼
►
comment on an economist blog entry about
◼
►
skeuomorphism and I wasn't saying Scott
◼
►
Forstall was fired because it but I said
◼
►
we could see changes because he was a
◼
►
proponent of it and I've is not and a
◼
►
lot of people hate some of the where's
◼
►
the script installer piece called sku
◼
►
you right and they're screaming a crazy
◼
►
comment on it was like Apple does not
◼
►
make hardware for the Apple contracts
◼
►
all its hardware manufacturer it is not
◼
►
responsible for them like you can be
◼
►
get to respond to it was just this it
◼
►
was just this wonderful thing it's like
◼
►
I don't think you understand what making
◼
►
means any more like making is now you
◼
►
know the unit's it's the fabulous chip
◼
►
design thing that goes back now for
◼
►
decades practice be is companies that
◼
►
make electronics are responsible for so
◼
►
you know it's the architectural side of
◼
►
it the manufacturers now we competitive
◼
►
they can find the best firm to do it
◼
►
once this whole thing about samsung
◼
►
maybe they stopped working with Samsung
◼
►
great there are plenty of other
◼
►
companies would be delighted to pick up
◼
►
a multi-billion dollar contract for
◼
►
screens and other things you might take
◼
►
the time to get production ramped up but
◼
►
but it's out there well and look at what
◼
►
Apple is done with things like unibody
◼
►
aluminum construction right i mean this
◼
►
is something that note there were no
◼
►
devices that were like this and now all
◼
►
of apples devices are like this where
◼
►
they start with blocks of aluminum and
◼
►
drill the case out of one solid piece of
◼
►
aluminum I mean is there anything left
◼
►
Apple makes it isn't can't be described
◼
►
that way the mac men no women started
◼
►
the mini I've got in front of the mini
◼
►
well no I think they do I don't think
◼
►
that's actually constructed a feeling it
◼
►
right now but it is a part of the apple
◼
►
TV is not aluminum right that's plastic
◼
►
that's right but that's about no I think
◼
►
you're right the airport extra port
◼
►
express holistic to gadgets maybe but I
◼
►
still think that the best way to think
◼
►
of apple TV is not really as a device
◼
►
but as I kept peripheral yeah absolutely
◼
►
only a couple on apple TV 2 add Wi-Fi
◼
►
and then your kid you know it could be
◼
►
Apple express TV and you're all done i
◼
►
guess the mac pro is probably not you
◼
►
know body I don't know what not yet when
◼
►
the next one will be obviously right
◼
►
next one will be but all the macbooks
◼
►
are the imax are now with the the latest
◼
►
revisions to the iphone and ipad they
◼
►
all are you know it's you know and
◼
►
that's it's hugely innovative that you
◼
►
start with these blocks of aluminum and
◼
►
drill things out of it and it gives
◼
►
their products this incredible build
◼
►
quality and feel dif that is unlike
◼
►
everybody else you know like a truly a
◼
►
blind person can really sense a visceral
◼
►
aesthetic difference between Apple
◼
►
products and competing products and they
◼
►
started down this path materials science
◼
►
an overlooked part of efficiency
◼
►
overlooked as you see it's sort of from
◼
►
the outside but I think like even the
◼
►
Bondi blue the original translucent
◼
►
plastic they use that no one else was
◼
►
using for computers i think it was
◼
►
already in vacuum cleaners wasn't famous
◼
►
things at the time but I think Apple
◼
►
since I've came on and since jobs came
◼
►
back they have looked material advances
◼
►
as a way to more fully express the
◼
►
vision in a way that other companies
◼
►
have been unable to other companies say
◼
►
I all they're doing that will do that
◼
►
because we can use that material to as
◼
►
opposed to why is no other firm looking
◼
►
for the next interesting material
◼
►
advances that would give them a unique
◼
►
innovative look I mean Samsung we're
◼
►
looking at the Prophet samsung is
◼
►
producing now I want samsung I want
◼
►
microsoft to be making stuff that is as
◼
►
interesting as what Apple does with the
◼
►
same functionality in the same build
◼
►
quality there's no excuse from not doing
◼
►
it I would often or design side I don't
◼
►
think Samsung even tries but i will give
◼
►
it I'll give i will give Microsoft
◼
►
credit with the surface for trying and I
◼
►
think that the surface is he is the
◼
►
closest I've seen you know to to apple
◼
►
style build quality it is very nice i
◼
►
think and they also even from a material
◼
►
standpoint I don't think it's as nice as
◼
►
the aluminum but i do think that the
◼
►
magnesium whatever stop witnessing is a
◼
►
pretty good don't you want don't you
◼
►
want to wake up one day and say company
◼
►
X is doing something that is new I mean
◼
►
that's what we all felt about the UI for
◼
►
metro was like oh my god microsoft is
◼
►
broken the window broken through the
◼
►
glass here and done something I want the
◼
►
same thing harbor I want to get up one
◼
►
day and say this thing is oh my god what
◼
►
they're doing with the technology with
◼
►
the science it's beautiful it's
◼
►
it's unique and it's an advanced and I
◼
►
want someone to do that that's not apple
◼
►
and it's not a company that sells
◼
►
twenty-thousand-dollar components of
◼
►
right exactly i mean it talked to gone
◼
►
on long enough to let me toss out
◼
►
something I have to bring it up because
◼
►
I've seen it on twitter too many times
◼
►
because it sounds so soap opera be
◼
►
perfect is the idea that either one or
◼
►
both of scoffs kira or forestall will
◼
►
switch teams and maybe forestall will
◼
►
take takeover software microsoft and/or
◼
►
Sinofsky would would end up at Apple
◼
►
that would be hilarious i don't know
◼
►
what the culture class was like I can
◼
►
imagine forestall going to Microsoft
◼
►
because they're looking for something
◼
►
give him a ton of power and he could
◼
►
just come in and do what he wants to do
◼
►
break heads fire people and hire new
◼
►
folks and it makes changes i wonder if
◼
►
Sinofsky come brought into apple would
◼
►
be able to be slotted into a position
◼
►
where he would feel like he had enough
◼
►
authority has of the sanctions I don't
◼
►
think there's any chance to knock
◼
►
Goodwin up at Apple because i don't
◼
►
think there's room form right Craig
◼
►
federighi is already there charge of
◼
►
software and I think that's the only
◼
►
sort of position that that that he would
◼
►
take I think it's more likely that he's
◼
►
gonna do something you know like Tony
◼
►
Fadell who started nest
◼
►
exactly and i think the same is true for
◼
►
forestall 2 i'd i would he is so
◼
►
ambitious and he's clear he is so smart
◼
►
there is no doubt in my mind we have not
◼
►
heard the lost last of scott forstall
◼
►
but i would expect it to be something
◼
►
more like what Fidel did with his own
◼
►
startup and being the CEO and doing
◼
►
something outside you know I don't know
◼
►
you know who would have thought
◼
►
thermostat by know it's all that looks
◼
►
like a sonos solace was not top level of
◼
►
people but some great mid-level Apple
◼
►
people started sonos and it's like the
◼
►
gold standard around 14 10 8 or 10 years
◼
►
now and so does is the apple of you know
◼
►
home stereo equipment something out
◼
►
there that under our noses and none of
◼
►
us see it but something like that i was
◼
►
cars because a car automotive systems
◼
►
are terrible almost uniformly and
◼
►
Microsoft actually develops one of them
◼
►
you do there's there are six million
◼
►
systems equipped with onstar that are
◼
►
turned on right now I mean there's I
◼
►
forget the number that have onstar
◼
►
built-in that are activated there is
◼
►
room for some really tremendous work at
◼
►
automotive integration in car
◼
►
entertainment systems and logistics and
◼
►
whatever and that's the space enforcer
◼
►
has exactly the right experience outside
◼
►
we forgot the automotive side with the
◼
►
making that part work and there's a ton
◼
►
the thing I can't ask my prediction I
◼
►
couldn't see forestall going to
◼
►
Microsoft either unless they wanted to
◼
►
give him something new that he could do
◼
►
he's not going to take over windows
◼
►
though because he already had an OS that
◼
►
was exactly what he wanted it to be iOS
◼
►
there's nothing in iOS that forestall
◼
►
right it's exactly you know it is the
◼
►
the everything including the programming
◼
►
language you use to make it and the
◼
►
framework which is you know this second
◼
►
generation version of the next thing
◼
►
that forestall had been working on since
◼
►
1989 anyway with all exactly what he
◼
►
wanted and all of it very very different
◼
►
than windows there's no way he's gonna
◼
►
go in there and take over windows
◼
►
because obviously don't ask you
◼
►
something quickly though the fireworks
◼
►
were so long so OS 10 running an arm
◼
►
oh def i think i would be shocked if
◼
►
it's not already running arm just love
◼
►
story that's a forestall feeling but
◼
►
it's your anyway they've got to have it
◼
►
in the lab of course they have right i
◼
►
wouldn't be surprised if it's the exact
◼
►
same lab where it used to run on Intel
◼
►
excite you know visit every disease ALS
◼
►
is on arm so of coordinates
◼
►
I don't know who I don't know exactly
◼
►
how compiled into virgins at the kernel
◼
►
level one suspect that they have
◼
►
commonly been running stuff on multiple
◼
►
kinds of chips including arm since they
◼
►
released a OS 10 or two years or three
◼
►
years for the least os10 in iOS form1
◼
►
assume so I heard that rumor and I was
◼
►
like that doesn't seem like a big
◼
►
transition at all I mean will be hard
◼
►
for the programmers but you know rosena
◼
►
made that transition if they can do the
◼
►
same kind of thing they can have a new
◼
►
Rosetta forearm if it's good it's
◼
►
capable which i think it was i would be
◼
►
if they didn't have as an engineering
◼
►
principle throughout all of Mac os10 I
◼
►
you know a hard-and-fast rules in place
◼
►
that you've you know don't put any it
◼
►
don't program anything Intel specific in
◼
►
here or if you really do need to go and
◼
►
do something in assembler here's you
◼
►
know block it off very very neatly so
◼
►
that it can be duplicated you know in a
◼
►
in a in a processor agnostic fashion but
◼
►
it seems totally logical to me I heard
◼
►
the rumor and I was like well fine I
◼
►
mean why not because that uncouples
◼
►
again from another point failure and
◼
►
they have much more control over arm its
◼
►
chips it's just a question of their
◼
►
forties and I do think it's easy to
◼
►
forget just how much more performance I
◼
►
heavy Mac os10 is than iOS just based on
◼
►
you know just based on the fun of on the
◼
►
the the the rules for process lifetime
◼
►
you know that you can run multiple
◼
►
and that your will your Safari tabs
◼
►
continue processing javascript in the
◼
►
background as opposed to on iOS where as
◼
►
soon as you leave safari it's all put to
◼
►
sleep but think about all the stuff
◼
►
they've added to Mac os10 in the last
◼
►
two releases along those lines of if you
◼
►
follow these api's your app might be put
◼
►
to sleep right and i think that you know
◼
►
and I think that has performance
◼
►
benefits on Intel but i think it's very
◼
►
very clearly about keeping our options
◼
►
open going forward I mean imagine that
◼
►
there's that whole thing to those you
◼
►
can I mean there could be armed trips
◼
►
with you could have 16-core 32 or arm
◼
►
chips are multiple I mean the not their
◼
►
magic or anything but I think apples
◼
►
that everything can with grand central
◼
►
or your grandcentral all their
◼
►
multiprocessing multi-threading and all
◼
►
that is that conceivably you can slip
◼
►
stream in a super cord getting that's
◼
►
not eight you know what's the topic the
◼
►
mac pro is a torque whatta ya want
◼
►
everything I think I've got a 16-2 16
◼
►
but conceivably you know I keep reading
◼
►
about that's the only know but it is all
◼
►
about ass advanced yeah
◼
►
grand central dispatch is all about one
◼
►
thing which is the idea that you're
◼
►
going to have slower more
◼
►
energy-efficient kors but more of them
◼
►
and that that's how performance is going
◼
►
to increase and how can you best take
◼
►
advantage of that in a way that's
◼
►
friendly to developers as it doesn't
◼
►
make their minds explosive all the ways
◼
►
that that parallel programming
◼
►
traditionally could yeah I now and
◼
►
imagine just imagine a macbook air
◼
►
that's arm-based how much thinner and
◼
►
lighter it could be it could be could
◼
►
you know all of a sudden it might make
◼
►
our existing errors look patent heavy
◼
►
I mean apples design apple designs in
◼
►
eggs in X in X inexorably go in the
◼
►
direction of thinner thinner and lighter
◼
►
yeah i'm not even think like imagine
◼
►
something that's a madness smaller than
◼
►
a mac mini I mean I assume that for
◼
►
apple that they that the mac mini
◼
►
actually feels big to them now so
◼
►
something that was even smaller and all
◼
►
the capability it's going to solid-state
◼
►
you only sold with a solid state drive
◼
►
with arm processors that runs cooler has
◼
►
thunderbolt and USB 3 and and that's it
◼
►
and I would also say to don't don't
◼
►
count them out on the ipod front either
◼
►
in terms of like getting don't not just
◼
►
thinking about arm chips that
◼
►
are powerful enough to run Mac os10 in
◼
►
any fashion but I think to about armed
◼
►
ships that are small enough to be on
◼
►
like nano typed yes yes because they
◼
►
have their that's that it's the
◼
►
diversity of the arm ecosystem that I
◼
►
think is it's not only can they bit out
◼
►
where it gets made them greater
◼
►
flexibility and control and costs and
◼
►
sources but that the range of arm is so
◼
►
huge compared to what Intel can offer
◼
►
them right now on the sort of monolithic
◼
►
if you scale what think about like an
◼
►
ARM chip or a system-on-a-chip and
◼
►
apples perspective where you're thinking
◼
►
about a device that says like watch size
◼
►
like like the old man knows but
◼
►
therefore because it's so small you
◼
►
don't need to worry about powerful
◼
►
graphics processing because whatever
◼
►
this screen has even if it's a Retina
◼
►
screen at that size it's not going to
◼
►
require significant graphics processing
◼
►
I just think about a little tiny super
◼
►
low power thing with the cpu of like an
◼
►
a5 bluetooth for and you know what kind
◼
►
of crazy things you can do with such a
◼
►
little little thing you have the I
◼
►
Oh grant somebody that I did not buy
◼
►
Apple watch but I don't know where it is
◼
►
that when sometimes the devil elevation
◼
►
doc finished shipping last month and
◼
►
they now have lightning adapters and
◼
►
soon sunday lightning connectors yeah
◼
►
I'll come it'll all come around
◼
►
yeah well Glenn thank you very much for
◼
►
being as a great show pleasures i want
◼
►
to thank our sponsors again talks coffee
◼
►
best coffee in the world and gritter or
◼
►
as i like to call it reddit or have
◼
►
really really innovative and useful
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►
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