The Talk Show

28: Inappropriate Outfits, with Dan Frommer


00:00:00   have you ever been to CES i have not and

00:00:03   this is the first year sorry this is the

00:00:05   second year that I kind of kicked myself

00:00:07   a little for not going

00:00:09   I when we are we taping now or should we

00:00:12   I'm taping all right good i'm taking 2

00:00:14   i'm always taping I tape everything good

00:00:18   so when i worked at business insider or

00:00:21   like if i were to work at the verge or

00:00:23   in gadget or something like that I don't

00:00:26   think CES would be any fun I think

00:00:27   that'd be miserable because you have a

00:00:29   lot of work to do if the runaround if

00:00:30   the post stuff and you have to you know

00:00:33   constantly be available for editors and

00:00:36   that sort of stuff but now that now that

00:00:39   I don't work in a situation like that i

00:00:41   actually think it might be kind of fun

00:00:42   because ok kind of walk around and see a

00:00:46   weird stuff and pace yourself you know

00:00:50   work when you feel like working and

00:00:51   don't work when you don't feel like it

00:00:53   and no one's telling you when to post or

00:00:55   what to do and actually sounds like it

00:00:57   might be kind of fun at least to go once

00:00:59   or something like that

00:01:00   yeah I have the exact same thought and

00:01:02   I'm if it wasn't last year it was two

00:01:05   years ago I think I had this same

00:01:06   conversation with that damn Benjamin on

00:01:09   the old talk show where I said the same

00:01:11   thing and and said I think next year I'm

00:01:13   gonna go

00:01:14   I for the exact same reasons that you

00:01:17   just said that I wouldn't have to do it

00:01:18   and I well there's got to be 30 posts a

00:01:21   day from daring fireball about this

00:01:23   stuff I to have that I'd have to you

00:01:25   know it here to some kind of crazy

00:01:27   schedule where I'd have to make all

00:01:28   these nine o'clock keynotes and have

00:01:32   meeting scheduled throughout the day and

00:01:34   and you know I mean that some of the

00:01:36   stuff is just horrible like and then I

00:01:38   wonder you know for people never been to

00:01:39   Vegas it's can be tough to get around

00:01:41   the strip even for places that seemingly

00:01:44   are only two three blocks apart their

00:01:46   huge blocks and the cab situation sounds

00:01:50   terrible at CS and so people who are

00:01:52   like at the convention center in the

00:01:53   morning and then have like a noon

00:01:55   meeting with some company at I don't

00:01:58   know the plot so or something like that

00:02:00   it's it's like impossible you can't walk

00:02:03   it it's too far to walk and it's like an

00:02:05   hour long way to get a cab and all of a

00:02:07   sudden you've spent three hours to get

00:02:09   to a meeting that's I don't know half a

00:02:11   mile

00:02:12   so if I wouldn't have to do that do that

00:02:14   ya know if you and if you make that kind

00:02:17   of part of your experience like taking

00:02:19   time to get from one place to another

00:02:21   not setting up back to back to back

00:02:23   meetings or you know avoiding keynotes

00:02:26   and that kind of stuff i don't know i

00:02:27   think would be really fun and this year

00:02:29   it was like a couple days before I i

00:02:32   could completely forgot obviously the

00:02:33   CES was even happening and then like two

00:02:35   days before I was like haha i wonder how

00:02:37   much it would cost if I decided to go

00:02:39   right now and it turned out I could have

00:02:41   booked a plane ticket for free using

00:02:43   miles and then you know either try to

00:02:46   bomb a hotel like square square foot of

00:02:49   floor space from someone or just find

00:02:52   some cheap hotel somewhere but I had

00:02:54   ended up not being worth it was just him

00:02:56   maybe next year because i don't want to

00:02:58   kind of stay in comfort and you know and

00:03:00   not and not be bumming it too much so

00:03:03   right but so there's a there's a weird

00:03:07   you know if you follow a lot of tech

00:03:08   journalists on Twitter the way I do and

00:03:10   I assume you do too

00:03:12   there's a lot of like people being

00:03:13   downers about it like oh this is

00:03:15   horrible so stupid why do we do this

00:03:18   I I think I I don't like that you

00:03:21   anything I think that it's kind of dumb

00:03:23   like there's a lot of people who

00:03:24   actually really enjoy going there and

00:03:26   there's a lot of people who actually get

00:03:27   really good business out of it you know

00:03:30   if you if you're looking at the people

00:03:32   who are are going there for real work

00:03:34   and not just to to post a bunch of stuff

00:03:36   on a tech blog like people you know that

00:03:39   this is a really good opportunity to

00:03:40   make money and to meet people that only

00:03:42   fly maybe to the US a couple times a

00:03:44   year and then also even like the media

00:03:48   guys can do it right like I love Brian

00:03:50   lambs attitude is always you know from

00:03:52   the wire cutter and no heat he slummed

00:03:55   it for many a year is the editor of

00:03:56   gizmodo you know forcing people to write

00:03:59   however money doesn't suppose today and

00:04:01   now he says all right we're going to

00:04:03   have everyone here we're gonna hang out

00:04:05   together for a few days and we're going

00:04:07   to collectively right one post for the

00:04:09   wire cutter about what's actually

00:04:11   interesting at CES and I think that's a

00:04:13   great attitude now fortunately he has a

00:04:15   business model that supports that I'm

00:04:17   you know the sites with with banner ads

00:04:19   and that sort of stuff and especially

00:04:21   the ones who seem to be like official

00:04:22   media partners of CES they probably have

00:04:25   a lot more work that they're required to

00:04:26   do but i love Brian lambs attitude one

00:04:29   of the reasons I want to go now is just

00:04:31   to go hang out with him in control

00:04:33   everyone else

00:04:34   yeah totally I I see it the same way

00:04:36   like with the story i would like to

00:04:38   write and you know other people have

00:04:40   done with the scent of certainly not the

00:04:41   most original tape but just do my take

00:04:43   on it is the sort of gonzo

00:04:46   what is it like to be at CES story and

00:04:48   it made you know it's the sort of thing

00:04:50   that I almost certainly would not be

00:04:51   able to finish up during CES it would be

00:04:54   something maybe I would work on the

00:04:56   flight back to these coast or something

00:04:58   like that are finished with it later but

00:05:00   the sort of you are there what what

00:05:04   exactly is it like sort of thing where

00:05:07   which you don't get it all from most of

00:05:08   the the gadget blogs you don't and I

00:05:11   think actually mat Honan did a fun one

00:05:13   last year Matt did it really close to

00:05:15   that and and i was teasing him a few

00:05:17   days ago but you know my editor last

00:05:20   year was here is basically like every

00:05:22   post you write for the rest of the year

00:05:23   must be as good as mat hona and CES post

00:05:26   and I'm like you're crazy

00:05:27   yeah that was a really good piece yeah

00:05:29   it was awesome is inspired

00:05:31   uh there's actually a good us a couple

00:05:33   good slide shows up that I had was just

00:05:35   looking at before we started taping one

00:05:37   is from tech hive which is affiliated

00:05:41   with macworld it's from CES 2013 amazing

00:05:44   spectacles and awkward moments and it's

00:05:46   kind of like a visual you know like that

00:05:49   that what is it actually like to be here

00:05:51   sort of thing there's there's a lot of

00:05:52   ridiculous stuff going on it seems there

00:05:55   was another 10 gizmodo the most

00:05:58   wonderfully unrealistic gear from CES

00:06:00   2013 and that's like unrealistic yeah

00:06:03   totally like the like flexible the ink

00:06:06   tablets and a 20 inch panasonic 4k

00:06:09   tablet and that can stop just like the

00:06:12   the really ridiculous stuff that to me

00:06:14   actually sounds like the more

00:06:15   interesting reason to go to CES like

00:06:17   I've been to the the mobile world

00:06:19   congress a couple times in Barcelona and

00:06:21   a lot of stuff there's like realistic

00:06:23   and I go yeah there's a bunch of new

00:06:25   cell phones but CES there's really

00:06:27   potentially some really ridiculous stuff

00:06:29   there

00:06:30   and I wonder and it's funny because you

00:06:32   know and I guess part of it too is that

00:06:34   I just happened you know I enjoy Las

00:06:36   Vegas like to gamble like to drink a

00:06:38   little bit and go there in a couple

00:06:41   times a year and then here's like the

00:06:43   one time of year where I could

00:06:44   legitimately write the whole thing off

00:06:46   and and charge it as a legitimate

00:06:49   business expense and I I've never gone

00:06:51   and then it's a it is partly though it's

00:06:54   sort of like a South by Southwest type

00:06:55   thing where if you want to go

00:06:57   you really got a plan for it many months

00:07:00   in advance because it's such a big show

00:07:03   ah that hotels really do sell out

00:07:07   I mean it's not that you can't get a

00:07:08   hotel in las vegas but I the ones that

00:07:11   are closest do seem sold out like I did

00:07:14   the same thing you did what I thought

00:07:15   well maybe I'm maybe I'm a book at last

00:07:17   minute

00:07:17   ah and I saw like the mirage was totally

00:07:21   sold out and the wynn and encore it was

00:07:24   like 800 bucks tonight

00:07:26   yeah like 800 so I looked I looked and I

00:07:29   found that the el cortez downtown head

00:07:31   rooms for like fifty bucks and I've

00:07:34   never been there like that's where when

00:07:35   I was 21 that's where we used to go play

00:07:37   five-dollar craps and like right i do

00:07:39   not like I've never stayed and ya know

00:07:41   it just seems really nasty so I was not

00:07:44   you know the very least I could crash

00:07:45   there on the floor and then just get the

00:07:47   hell out of there but the best deal is

00:07:49   off for a last-minute you know I'm it's

00:07:51   not a bad dog I've never stayed there

00:07:52   but i know from being inside it

00:07:54   certainly you know it's it's more

00:07:55   upscale than downstairs downscale I so

00:07:57   when I tried to book the mirage and they

00:07:59   said nope were sold out they had rooms

00:08:02   at bellagio for like 200 and summer

00:08:05   night and then they had rooms at the MGM

00:08:07   for like a hundred nine dollars a night

00:08:10   which is I dad that's probably the best

00:08:12   you're going to do although the MGM's

00:08:14   all the way down the other end of the

00:08:16   strip from from the convention center

00:08:18   maybe just bring a skateboard and cut

00:08:21   your commute down yeah I don't know it

00:08:22   seemed but it is crazy though cuz i also

00:08:25   saw from following along externally and

00:08:27   watching where people are going and

00:08:29   stuff like that i saw people you know is

00:08:32   i don't know if they're officially part

00:08:34   of CES or if it's just ad hoc stuff that

00:08:36   people are just renting out you know

00:08:38   companies are renting out on their own

00:08:40   but I saw people doing happened

00:08:42   inside mandalay bay which is even

00:08:45   further than MGM at the what is that the

00:08:48   north end of the strip or south end of

00:08:49   the strip i forget which ones north and

00:08:51   south

00:08:51   yeah there seems to be a lot of stuff

00:08:53   that's like that's loosely affiliated a

00:08:56   lot of its like the weekend before CES

00:08:58   officially starts and I wonder i'm sure

00:09:00   there's like really strict rules about

00:09:02   what you're allowed to do even in like

00:09:04   the whole area of vegas during CES and

00:09:07   before it and you know if you have to

00:09:08   pay an extra fee or something like that

00:09:10   but a lot of that stuff's seems to be

00:09:13   unaffiliated like random marketing and

00:09:15   mcs have these little advise anybody

00:09:18   know in terms of Michael what it would

00:09:19   cost him in you know obviously you can

00:09:21   in MGM 409 dollars a night isn't that

00:09:23   bad but it's not it's good

00:09:25   that's pretty good i don't want the plan

00:09:28   on it next year maybe we'll do it

00:09:30   together

00:09:31   absolutely i'm there here's the one

00:09:35   thing that I just don't get and I was

00:09:36   kind of wondering if you had done it

00:09:38   when you were at business insider

00:09:39   Business Insider was never Billy been

00:09:42   like you know it's more of an operation

00:09:45   you've got this like a staff and there's

00:09:46   a bunch of writers but it's not really

00:09:47   like a virgin gadget type thing to think

00:09:50   I that boggles my mind is the number of

00:09:53   people that these outfits have set like

00:09:55   somebody said i think they said that

00:09:57   scene that has 90 people there and the

00:09:59   verge has 80 ah and Africa how many

00:10:03   people in gadget I mean I die how does

00:10:05   the verge even have 80 people it doesn't

00:10:07   make any sense to me

00:10:08   I don't what are they doing there yeah

00:10:10   they had a world trailer it's crazy i've

00:10:12   never been a part of that sort of team

00:10:14   coverage

00:10:15   I've certainly witnessed it like again

00:10:17   at the the mobile world congress in

00:10:19   barcelona that you know the verge

00:10:20   probably had like six or seven guys

00:10:22   there last year but I can't even imagine

00:10:25   the CES thing we're literally everyone

00:10:27   from the whole staff you know even

00:10:29   international bureau's gets flown in and

00:10:31   they all do stuff together it looks so I

00:10:33   mean if you look at the site there's

00:10:34   just a ton of stuff on there there's

00:10:35   articles they have they brought it seems

00:10:38   their own their whole video people out

00:10:40   there and they have a studio setup so

00:10:42   they're doing videotaping

00:10:45   and 80 people that I know it's crazy and

00:10:48   just think about the expenses involving

00:10:49   80 that's eight you know and assuming

00:10:52   nobody's local de las vegas that's 80

00:10:54   round-trip air tickets even if you

00:10:56   double everybody up in a room that's for

00:10:58   free hotel rooms and that's if you

00:11:01   double everybody up

00:11:02   I asked the guys at the verge I didn't

00:11:04   remember when I wrote that weird article

00:11:06   about like all the tech sites include

00:11:09   you in that they did that funny artwork

00:11:10   with you and and Topolsky and all those

00:11:13   guys i think i'd ask them all I remember

00:11:16   that yeah I was like last summer's day

00:11:17   dresses up as superheroes or something

00:11:19   yeah yeah it's pretty funny is why i

00:11:21   never ever going to do photos

00:11:23   it's like if you wanted to everybody

00:11:25   wants goofy pictures so it's like you

00:11:26   know what higher in Illustrator they did

00:11:28   it was actually pretty it was a anyway

00:11:31   it doesn't matter

00:11:32   um I had asked the guys I've like you

00:11:34   know because I i interviewed Joshua

00:11:35   Topolsky and nilay patel and also one of

00:11:39   the guys in the business side i asked

00:11:40   him like what is it actually cost for

00:11:42   you to do CES and I he said it was

00:11:46   surprised if i recall correctly my notes

00:11:49   in front of me but I I think he told me

00:11:51   that it was it would surprise me how

00:11:53   little it actually was relative to you

00:11:56   know what you know what a you know what

00:11:58   you think it would cost right and you

00:12:00   know they have to run out i guess they

00:12:01   have this trailer and they do have to

00:12:03   put everyone up in a hotel room and

00:12:04   there's 80 flights involved but it can

00:12:07   be a really big opportunity for

00:12:09   sponsorship like if you get a kind of a

00:12:11   marquis sponsor like I'm looking at

00:12:13   gizmodo and it says CES live from Las

00:12:16   Vegas presented by outlook.com right you

00:12:19   know the I don't know how much that they

00:12:20   paid for that but it could be tens or

00:12:22   hundreds of you know thousands of

00:12:24   dollars for that hole sponsorship I'm so

00:12:27   it could end up being you know

00:12:28   profitable or or break even and you know

00:12:31   if you make a spectacle covering see a

00:12:34   sec you know the idea is that it would

00:12:35   kind of flow through to the rest of the

00:12:38   year so i don't know but i've never been

00:12:41   part of that I think this your business

00:12:42   insider they sent a few people there

00:12:44   which is definitely more than you know

00:12:46   whenever I was working there I think

00:12:48   maybe we had one person go but it was

00:12:51   never me

00:12:52   the thing I guess the thing I would like

00:12:53   to try to capture and and to me it's a

00:12:55   forest for the trees type thing and that

00:12:57   all these other gadgets sites it's just

00:12:59   a tree tree tree tree Tree bombardment

00:13:02   all day long of of trees and no sort of

00:13:05   picture of what the forest is like and

00:13:09   what you know I feel like you're talking

00:13:10   about you're interested in the same sort

00:13:11   of thing where yeah I night and I do

00:13:14   think I think that CES in a weird way

00:13:16   has gotten more interesting now that it

00:13:21   is some of the bigger companies aren't

00:13:22   going and Microsoft's not doing the

00:13:24   keynote uh I mean that Qualcomm keynote

00:13:27   was weird but it's weird in a way that

00:13:29   sort of tells you something about what

00:13:33   what that companies thinking that was

00:13:36   super weird and now I've actually I've

00:13:38   seen something like that in person it

00:13:40   was the samsung keynote at Mobile World

00:13:42   Congress the year before last and like

00:13:46   the clock i mean the Qualcomm thing was

00:13:47   like an hour and a half long

00:13:49   it's crazy like they bring it and

00:13:51   there's the samsung was the same way and

00:13:53   it was like you know the first there was

00:13:55   some hilariously kind of just really

00:13:58   bizarre scare space alien yeah like they

00:14:02   hired like three actors a young woman

00:14:05   and two young men are all probably about

00:14:08   25 but we're pretending to be teenagers

00:14:10   and we're talking about themselves as

00:14:14   the mobile generation or something like

00:14:16   that and and I couldn't tell if it was

00:14:18   if they were being if they were mocking

00:14:21   themselves or not which usually means

00:14:22   they're not you know it's like I it was

00:14:25   I don't know I thought it was parody at

00:14:27   first but then it clearly wasn't when in

00:14:30   when Qualcomm CEO paul jacobs rises from

00:14:34   you know my wife and I were watching

00:14:35   she's like is that Jesus is a no-no it's

00:14:38   paul jacobson no CEO what is earlier if

00:14:43   i vote from a guy on Twitter's name is

00:14:45   Andrew J doesn't have his real name on

00:14:48   his twitter account buddy I thought his

00:14:52   little tweet captured it perfectly

00:14:54   what's missing from Qualcomm CES keynote

00:14:56   is authenticity overproduced and vapid

00:14:59   and that it in in tweet like there it is

00:15:03   that's the whole thing it was so

00:15:04   inauthentic

00:15:05   like so phony in a totally non ironic

00:15:09   sense but it it it's that says something

00:15:14   now you know I mean there's something

00:15:15   about that that tells you what the heck

00:15:17   is going on

00:15:19   it's interesting because I've never felt

00:15:21   that way about the bomber keynotes like

00:15:24   I always felt that they were probably a

00:15:25   little too long and you know we're like

00:15:28   the content was not that that compelling

00:15:31   but there was never a moment where I was

00:15:33   like oh this is too ridiculous for

00:15:34   forwards

00:15:36   where's there's I think there was

00:15:38   another samsung keynote where they were

00:15:40   doing some really really silly stuff

00:15:42   yeah samsung had 1 i'd forget what event

00:15:44   it was it was Mike Mobile World Congress

00:15:46   last year for the CES last year but yeah

00:15:49   they had a real crazy like we're dancers

00:15:52   and all kinds of stuff right like I'd

00:15:54   like in 1978 variety show on TV like

00:15:57   that in hindsight it's like what the

00:15:59   hell were we thinking and they spend

00:16:00   like probably a million dollars on this

00:16:02   sort of thing I mean it's not you know

00:16:04   it's not cheap like there's a lot of

00:16:06   production involved so I yeah I don't

00:16:09   know I i wonder if you know you gotta

00:16:11   wonder if a company like Qualcomm is

00:16:13   happy with it i mean i'm sure they got

00:16:14   all their getting a lot more attention

00:16:15   from the mainstream than they ever get

00:16:18   on a normal day but still hard to say

00:16:22   it's positive attention i don't know

00:16:23   well I'd the weird thing about Qualcomm

00:16:25   being selected to do a keynote or the

00:16:28   first keynote and and and they're

00:16:31   agreeing to do it is that Qualcomm is

00:16:33   not a consumer-facing company like

00:16:35   normal people have no reason to ever buy

00:16:38   anything from Qualcomm Qualcomm makes

00:16:40   thing I mean I i I've probably got it 8

00:16:43   devices within arm's reach of me right

00:16:45   now that have Qualcomm components within

00:16:47   and you might still have your door to

00:16:49   how they doing yeah yeah they they

00:16:54   remember they bought your door its yeah

00:16:55   but I don't think that I think that

00:16:57   maybe they took that out back behind the

00:16:58   shed and shot it right

00:17:00   yeah shot but that was that was weird

00:17:03   when they were i forgot the quality were

00:17:05   they chosen or did they pay for it i

00:17:07   mean that's the quite don't know i don't

00:17:09   well but obviously those CEO you know

00:17:11   the CEA who run CES thought it was a

00:17:14   good choice you know whether there's I

00:17:16   don't know who pays who more

00:17:17   what happens you know obviously both

00:17:20   sides that thought it was a good idea

00:17:22   I wonder who else could have done it

00:17:25   though I mean you know samsungsamsung

00:17:28   did 10 another night I I don't know

00:17:30   yeah some of those guys might want to do

00:17:32   it on their own schedule and not as the

00:17:34   opening but so if it's not gonna be

00:17:35   microsoft it's not going to be Apple

00:17:37   obviously did you remember though is

00:17:40   that a year ago people were like oh it

00:17:42   could be apples grand entree into CES

00:17:46   now I don't think so

00:17:49   I saw them today that apparently apple

00:17:50   did participate in CES many many years

00:17:54   ago literally the last time that they

00:17:55   were there was 1992 when they unveiled

00:17:58   the Newton haha which is I mean I was

00:18:01   only 19

00:18:03   I was like a soft I I didn't I mean I

00:18:05   was in the Apple but I didn't even

00:18:06   follow stuff like that

00:18:08   yeah wasn't even an internet back then

00:18:10   yeah that's why don't the Newton I mean

00:18:14   then forcing every year Apple does have

00:18:16   employees there they're just not rent

00:18:20   you know they're not doing us a booth or

00:18:24   anything like that

00:18:25   I are you going to Macworld later haha i

00:18:29   guess not huh

00:18:31   no I am I will be there and that's the

00:18:34   other reason I wonder why don't you see

00:18:35   yes i still like going to Macworld and i

00:18:38   still get I i find it to be very

00:18:41   worthwhile and I feel like for the exact

00:18:42   same reasons it would be worthwhile to

00:18:44   go to CES you know that i meet you at

00:18:48   the networking I mean that's right

00:18:49   reason to go you meet with people you

00:18:51   know II I'm sure you meet with a lot of

00:18:53   developers and people who are doing

00:18:55   hardware and you can get real answers to

00:18:58   questions that you know it in my in my

00:19:01   kind of old day job is a you know proper

00:19:03   reporter like they set you up on these

00:19:06   interview or meetings with people and

00:19:08   they're usually they're there to talk

00:19:10   their book but if you meet someone at a

00:19:11   conference you know and they had a

00:19:13   couple drinks or dinner or something

00:19:14   they'll tell you stuff that you know you

00:19:17   would never get from them in a normal

00:19:19   meeting or something like that so

00:19:21   somebody pointed out that if you if you

00:19:23   went to CES this year and you wanted to

00:19:25   stop by every single exhibitor on the

00:19:28   showplace showplace floor

00:19:30   and you were there all day every day

00:19:33   that the exhibit hall was is open from

00:19:37   opening until the closing you would be

00:19:39   able to spend 39 seconds at each

00:19:41   exhibitor so obviously its ideas of a

00:19:45   scale that you you know that its

00:19:47   enormous but that's but no one would

00:19:49   ever do that like you know why you've

00:19:51   been to Macworld I've never been to see

00:19:52   yes but I mean I've been the macworld

00:19:53   and other trade shows you don't want you

00:19:56   know you're not you know when you walk

00:19:57   down the aisle most of them don't catch

00:19:59   your eye and aren't doing something that

00:20:01   you find interesting

00:20:03   no and that's yeah and that's kind of

00:20:05   why some of them do really absurd stuff

00:20:07   right there was a company that was I

00:20:10   supposedly band for mobile world

00:20:12   congress because they and they were from

00:20:14   like Russia and they had these russian

00:20:16   girls dressed up and very like kind of

00:20:18   inappropriate outfits handing out very

00:20:21   weird posters and stuff it was but you

00:20:24   know and and so everyone knew who they

00:20:26   were

00:20:27   uh but it was still a little

00:20:29   over-the-top it looks like that stuff's

00:20:31   pretty normal at CES there's a lot of

00:20:33   booth babe type stuff and even yeah I

00:20:36   can't remember feeling to it yesterday

00:20:38   or if it's still open a tab but I know

00:20:40   the BBC had another video sort of not

00:20:44   really chastising them over it but just

00:20:46   sort of kind of looking at the booth

00:20:49   babe situation at CES with an objective

00:20:51   view you know sort of like this is weird

00:20:55   this is a little weird and it's no

00:20:57   wonder that you know women feel a little

00:21:00   uncomfortable as engineers and in the

00:21:02   industry for just going to pretend that

00:21:03   this is acceptable marketing yeah and i

00:21:06   think it made a little more sense like

00:21:08   when the porn convention was also there

00:21:10   at the same time but I think they're not

00:21:12   even there now so and there's only like

00:21:14   mac world has gotten I don't think

00:21:17   macworld ever been as booth baby as CES

00:21:19   is I mean I think the fact that it's in

00:21:21   Vegas certainly exacerbates it and I

00:21:23   think the fact that CES is like the

00:21:25   kingpin of this sort of consumer

00:21:27   electronics stuff where it's harder to

00:21:30   get attention because the show is so

00:21:32   much bigger and it's going to draw you

00:21:35   know the sort of one-off companies from

00:21:38   around the world that may be our only

00:21:39   like you said maybe only coming to North

00:21:41   America once this year

00:21:42   I but I have noticed that maybe i just

00:21:46   notice it more because I don't know it's

00:21:50   more people are sort of criticizing the

00:21:52   whole idea of having you know female

00:21:55   models in your booth just to draw

00:21:56   attention but it's weird like me

00:21:59   Macworld Expo has gotten a little bit

00:22:01   more like that in the years now that as

00:22:05   it gets longer and longer from the old

00:22:07   days when Apple was there because it

00:22:09   seems like they've attracted more

00:22:10   smaller companies i don't know and maybe

00:22:13   the smaller ones are the ones that to a

00:22:15   little more than I just remember the one

00:22:17   year I was at macworld it was the last

00:22:19   year that Apple did the keynote it was

00:22:21   Schiller with the i want to say a

00:22:25   macbook pro or something and forgot he

00:22:28   was introducing their that was shoulder

00:22:31   though because the last year last year

00:22:33   Apple did it was a year that Jobs was he

00:22:37   was out right right it was in it was

00:22:40   awkward and mysterious because he had

00:22:42   originally said he was going to be out

00:22:43   of it was like the yeah yeah like the

00:22:45   low point of the Steve Jobs decline i

00:22:49   think because it was clearly we're like

00:22:52   in hindsight behind-the-scenes you can

00:22:54   tell that you know there was a bit of

00:22:56   denial and and question you know going

00:22:59   on because it was a sort of he's gonna

00:23:01   be out for a couple weeks and then it

00:23:03   was the I did he say that like a

00:23:07   chemical mental and emotional imbalance

00:23:09   and it can be adjusted by diet and a

00:23:11   week later it was like I never mind i'm

00:23:13   gonna be out for six months because

00:23:14   that's when he realized he needed the

00:23:16   liver transplant right so you know that

00:23:19   was the year yeah that was the last year

00:23:20   and then Apple is like you know what

00:23:21   we're not doing this backwards shit

00:23:23   anymore anyway

00:23:23   sure i'll be there Phil Schiller will be

00:23:25   there in a couple weeks but after that

00:23:27   we're out of it but remember they were

00:23:29   like a couple couple girls and like

00:23:32   bumble bee costumes i remember to take

00:23:35   photographs of this stuff for I probably

00:23:36   did a slideshow for business insider and

00:23:39   it was a little bit of that but it was

00:23:40   mostly not so much I don't know the one

00:23:44   I remember I can remember it was last

00:23:45   year or the year before and it was and

00:23:48   to me it was almost like over the line

00:23:52   because it was outside the exhibit hall

00:23:55   i think it was last year because it was

00:23:56   in Moscow any west and and i think last

00:23:59   year was the first year that they move

00:24:00   the show to Moscow me West I the

00:24:03   building where WTC takes place as

00:24:06   opposed to the north and south halls

00:24:07   where where it used to be and what it

00:24:10   wasn't around I it says how effective

00:24:12   that the marketing you know the

00:24:14   technique is I have no idea what the

00:24:15   company was but they had hired three or

00:24:18   four women to stand outside the hall

00:24:22   like as you go in and that's what to me

00:24:24   put it over the line because it wasn't

00:24:25   like in their booth it was outside in

00:24:29   like the lobby area as you go in and

00:24:31   they had these things on their on their

00:24:33   butts that they were encouraging people

00:24:35   to take photos of so I wasn't just that

00:24:38   they were scantily clad women promoting

00:24:41   something they literally were promoting

00:24:43   it with signs on their butts that they

00:24:46   were voluntarily bending over so you

00:24:48   could take a close-up photo of and it's

00:24:51   a good place for a QR code i could maybe

00:24:57   they were cute

00:24:57   they might have actually been QR codes I

00:24:59   don't know but it don't think the thing

00:25:01   that struck my mind is what do you say

00:25:03   if and it just done to me in a way that

00:25:05   it that they really should have somebody

00:25:07   at idg I think sort of set you know what

00:25:09   you can't do that we're not you know

00:25:11   that will give your money back if you

00:25:12   want it but you're not doing this I is

00:25:15   what do you say if you're you know the

00:25:17   parent of of a you know 11 12 year old

00:25:20   girl whose it was into this stuff and

00:25:22   wants to go check this out that to get

00:25:24   into the Hall you've gotta walk past my

00:25:26   doughnuts doughnuts

00:25:28   yeah it just feels like something from

00:25:30   an old era that yes passed a bit like

00:25:33   you know smoking in restaurants or

00:25:35   something like I was in Tokyo a few

00:25:37   weeks ago and they were people were

00:25:38   smoking in there at you know it's not a

00:25:41   bar and like a nice restaurant on like

00:25:42   and this is still happening here that's

00:25:44   crazy but it's like antiquated yeah and

00:25:47   that we're not that it was ever right in

00:25:48   the first place but it somehow sticks

00:25:50   out a way now that it didn't you know

00:25:53   when we were who can in less enlightened

00:25:55   times exactly yeah I me and thank our

00:26:00   first sponsor first sponsor this week is

00:26:02   a tonks coffee now if you're a longtime

00:26:05   listener the show you know tonks had

00:26:07   been with us before they're great great

00:26:09   supporter of the talk show if you're not

00:26:10   a longtime listener the show shame on

00:26:12   you but let me tell you about tonks

00:26:14   either way

00:26:15   tonks is a coffee sourcing roasting

00:26:21   company you they may coffee you buy the

00:26:23   coffee they ship it to you what they do

00:26:26   is they buy the best beans from all over

00:26:28   the world couple shows ago I listed all

00:26:30   the countries that they went to any it's

00:26:31   I don't know

00:26:32   37 countries that they've sourced coffee

00:26:34   beans from they just go to the all they

00:26:37   want is they they want to get the best

00:26:38   beings then they roasted themselves the

00:26:41   best way that they can then they seal it

00:26:44   up fresh and ship it to you immediately

00:26:47   right after they've roasted it sealed it

00:26:50   up comes to your door so you go to their

00:26:53   website tong store T 0 NX dot or you can

00:26:56   sign up for a free trial and the stuff

00:26:59   in couple days after you sign up there

00:27:02   it is right you're at your door do that

00:27:05   if you're in the least bit skeptical

00:27:08   about how good talks coffee is and as

00:27:10   soon as you make one cup of it you'll go

00:27:12   right to the website and sign up for the

00:27:13   service

00:27:14   what you do is like a subscription every

00:27:17   every two weeks or every week you get

00:27:20   fresh coffee in the mail right to your

00:27:22   door however much you need

00:27:24   it's it's just great stuff I drink it

00:27:26   all the time my biggest complaint with

00:27:28   tongs coffee is that the longer i go

00:27:30   drinking it as my usual daily coffee

00:27:32   the harder i find it to drink anything

00:27:34   else from any other coffee place or

00:27:37   anything like that

00:27:39   I was just getting harder and harder to

00:27:41   drink something like starbucks when I'm

00:27:43   away from home it's it's that good

00:27:45   let me read a couple of tweets from

00:27:46   people talking about talks here's one

00:27:48   from a guy on Twitter Jesse Adkinson

00:27:50   having been a barista at most

00:27:52   double coffee shops for over four and a

00:27:54   half years i can honestly say tonks

00:27:57   coffee is the best coffee I've ever had

00:27:59   I here's one from Brendan Hutchins

00:28:03   thanks to Gruber and Marco Arment I'm

00:28:05   drinking my second cup of talks coffee

00:28:08   and it is the only coffee I've ever

00:28:09   liked without sweetening see that's

00:28:12   people think you need sugar in your

00:28:13   coffee you don't need sugar in your

00:28:14   coffee that you need sugar and bad

00:28:16   coffee the coffee is good you don't

00:28:18   don't put sugar in it you don't need it

00:28:19   I it don't take my word for it go to

00:28:22   talk story sign up for a free trial or

00:28:25   sign up for a description today

00:28:26   subscription today I my thanks to talks

00:28:30   for sponsoring this week's show

00:28:32   alright i think that was better

00:28:36   yeah I gotta try that stuff actually i

00:28:38   have I become a coffee snob as well and

00:28:41   I should try this subscription stuff you

00:28:45   know the only coffee I've had since I've

00:28:47   started drinking songs that I've found

00:28:48   that was up to par with it was Marco

00:28:52   himself and roasted some beans over

00:28:55   right before Christmas and sent out like

00:28:57   a marco arment roast who coffee thing to

00:29:01   I don't know handful of friends school

00:29:03   which was great and it was great and it

00:29:05   was delicious

00:29:06   ah I like my wife still talks about

00:29:09   Marco coffee that mark like we're at his

00:29:12   house couple months ago and Marco make

00:29:14   coffee and it really was like it's like

00:29:16   a pulp fiction moment like a hot damn

00:29:18   that's good coffee but on the other hand

00:29:22   to me sending out delicious hand roasted

00:29:25   buy you coffee is like a holiday gift to

00:29:28   your friends is sort of a rotten thing

00:29:29   to do because it really makes you feel

00:29:31   like a bomb if you don't do something I

00:29:34   didn't send Marco anything and if you

00:29:37   like it you can't just buy more right

00:29:39   yeah almost like a tease

00:29:40   yeah it's both the T's and like a guilt

00:29:43   trip yeah so thanks mark out thanks a

00:29:45   light

00:29:45   okay um

00:29:48   I what else is going on this week but we

00:29:51   had a UI you want to talk a little about

00:29:55   the the maybe we can talk a little about

00:29:58   the the phone sizes and and nokia if you

00:30:00   want the little things you posted

00:30:03   yeah I want to talk about the phone

00:30:04   sighs thing because it part of it is

00:30:08   it's stupid digit times report from a

00:30:10   week ago but there's all these rampant

00:30:13   rumors now that you know there's a wall

00:30:15   street journal story in a bloomberg

00:30:16   story that maybe apples working on a

00:30:19   second iphone you know maybe they'll

00:30:21   switch to two iphones this year in that

00:30:23   would later in here they're going to

00:30:24   have one that's cheaper than current

00:30:26   iphones and I guess and and some of the

00:30:29   articles just skip right over this like

00:30:30   it i guess not already there that they

00:30:33   don't already have cheaper iphones they

00:30:35   do they sell old you know last year's 4s

00:30:38   and two years ago is iphone for it at

00:30:40   lower price points the idea i guess is

00:30:43   that maybe instead of doing that the

00:30:45   lower price tiers for iphones would be a

00:30:48   new a new model that's you know I don't

00:30:52   know but anyway digit I'm says that

00:30:54   they're going to do that and it's going

00:30:55   to have a bigger 5-inch screen and did

00:30:58   you know digit times make stuff up but

00:31:01   the thing I one of the things I think

00:31:02   interesting one of the thing is the

00:31:04   angle of this cheap iphone which is not

00:31:06   that interested in meeting the other

00:31:07   thing that interests me is this the the

00:31:10   size thing because there's something

00:31:12   weird in the industry that that I still

00:31:16   can't figure out what the explanation

00:31:18   for it is and it's you know what I had

00:31:20   that tweet or was that

00:31:22   so what while you're looking for that

00:31:24   i'll just say the cheap iPhone I you

00:31:25   know

00:31:26   yes they do sell in in subsidized

00:31:29   markets last year's phone in the year

00:31:31   before for you know a price and for free

00:31:34   basically but those are still

00:31:36   six-hundred-dollar five-hundred-dollar

00:31:37   unsubsidized phone right and you know

00:31:40   the word that comes to mind when when

00:31:41   they start talking about cheap iphones

00:31:44   is this China is you know somewhere

00:31:46   where you could easily sell a hundred

00:31:49   million of something that that costs you

00:31:52   know $100 unsubsidized or two hundred

00:31:55   dollars unsubsidized but you're not

00:31:57   going to sell a hundred million six

00:32:00   hundred dollars

00:32:00   things they're so and you know it as

00:32:03   China becomes apples second most

00:32:05   important market and maybe someday their

00:32:07   first most important market i could see

00:32:10   the potential for you know developing

00:32:12   something for that but on the other hand

00:32:15   you know as you posted and you know as

00:32:18   as people who realistically look at

00:32:21   applewood know they're never going to

00:32:23   sell crap at any price like they're not

00:32:25   going to go to a two-hundred-dollar

00:32:28   100-dollar price and sell something that

00:32:30   they're not happy with it's just not

00:32:32   something they have absolutely never

00:32:33   done in and I can't see them ever doing

00:32:35   but if they can develop something within

00:32:37   a couple years that they can

00:32:39   realistically sell for two hundred

00:32:41   dollars 100-dollar unsubsidized that is

00:32:45   as good as you know maybe last year's 4s

00:32:47   or or even now you know this year's five

00:32:50   like sure they'll do that of course they

00:32:51   will but it just has to be that you know

00:32:54   the quality for the price not just

00:32:56   strictly trying to reach a certain price

00:32:59   right and and my comparison today was

00:33:02   with netbooks versus the ipad we're at

00:33:05   2007-2008 everybody was netbook netbook

00:33:08   netbook and that's you know and and my

00:33:10   take back then and I still stand by it

00:33:12   was exactly right is that netbook wasn't

00:33:14   really a new category it was just a

00:33:16   labeled a slap on cheap notebooks they

00:33:20   were all just cheap windows notebooks

00:33:22   that were less expensive than what

00:33:25   people are used to paying from notebooks

00:33:27   i thought i was actually what what Steve

00:33:30   Jobs said to you

00:33:31   netbook right now are they're just cheap

00:33:33   laptops alright and well and he said we

00:33:35   we can this isn't 2008 something I could

00:33:38   look at the exact quote but he said

00:33:39   because you don't want to misquote keep

00:33:42   jobs but he always said netbooks are

00:33:44   better at anything there are some

00:33:46   customers which we choose not to serve

00:33:50   we don't know how to make a

00:33:51   five-hundred-dollar computer that's not

00:33:53   a piece of junk and our DNA will not let

00:33:55   us ship that now two years later they

00:33:57   shipped a five-hundred-dollar computer

00:33:59   called the ipad maybe you've heard of it

00:34:01   ah and then but everything really is the

00:34:05   390 engine jobs does two different

00:34:08   things in his quotes there's two things

00:34:09   that jobs is famous for or one of the

00:34:11   things he's famous for is saying I went

00:34:13   we're going to do a video ipod nobody

00:34:15   wants that in a year later we've got a

00:34:17   great new ipod now plays video and it's

00:34:19   like he never said the other thing

00:34:20   before and and one of the reasons you

00:34:22   did it wasn't even any minute

00:34:23   one of it was just that if they didn't

00:34:25   have it yet he's just gonna lie and say

00:34:27   that it's a terrible idea because i

00:34:29   don't have it yet and to it especially

00:34:33   since his biography has come out and and

00:34:36   you know since she's died and Tim Cook

00:34:37   has said this many times that the the

00:34:39   man really was remarkably able to change

00:34:42   his mind you know that maybe he didn't

00:34:44   think video ipods for a piece of crap

00:34:46   and then nobody want to do it and if you

00:34:48   could you know a year later convince

00:34:50   them know it's a good idea then he would

00:34:52   change his mind that you know something

00:34:54   like that but I think with the the his

00:34:56   dismissal of netbook sell clearly they

00:34:58   were already working on the ipad at the

00:35:00   time

00:35:01   ah it wasn't about day I think what he

00:35:05   said there was not a lie or even

00:35:07   misdirection I think he was being come

00:35:08   just completely honest that at the time

00:35:10   there was no way they could make a

00:35:11   five-hundred-dollar computer that wasn't

00:35:13   a piece of Chuck wasn't that they would

00:35:15   never do it it's just that once they

00:35:16   could they did

00:35:18   yep yeah and at that point he probably

00:35:21   had no idea that the ipad would cost

00:35:23   five hundred dollars i mean that they

00:35:25   have been something that that Tim Cook

00:35:26   supply geniuses only made possible

00:35:28   within the few months before it we don't

00:35:32   know yeah I don't know that I i'll bet

00:35:34   it yet in 2008 I bet they had no idea

00:35:36   what it

00:35:37   I've had ipad would cost him 2010 in

00:35:40   fact is just finally we have an iPad

00:35:42   Mini which is basically better than the

00:35:44   first ipad for even half the price of

00:35:46   that so right and I i also remember too

00:35:49   that the it wasn't until summer of 2009

00:35:55   that internally that Apple was like okay

00:35:57   total green light on the tablet and you

00:36:01   know and i think that was in am almost

00:36:02   certain to that 2009 was when he came

00:36:06   back from that medical leave

00:36:08   yes and that I mean there was an article

00:36:10   talking about how you know I was

00:36:12   focusing on a new but prior to that I

00:36:15   mean they were you know famously now you

00:36:17   know it Peters come out that that a

00:36:19   tablet size thing was the whole origin

00:36:21   of iOS and touch screens and that they

00:36:23   scrapped it put it aside and said let's

00:36:25   do a phone with

00:36:26   this stuff first I mean they've been

00:36:29   working on tablets forever the whole

00:36:30   reason I always exist was tablets but in

00:36:32   terms of actually like saying this is

00:36:35   the what the tablet is going to look

00:36:37   like and be like it wasn't until two

00:36:39   thousand nine but i still think that

00:36:42   quote from 2008 is exactly applies to

00:36:45   phones that maybe there is a huge market

00:36:47   for piece-of-crap hundred-dollar phones

00:36:49   you know it does certainly as nokia sold

00:36:51   they just had you know everybody's

00:36:54   calling it really good results they sold

00:36:56   4.4 million Lumias which are really the

00:36:59   only good phones that they make they

00:37:01   also sold 70 million phones that don't

00:37:04   count as smartphones and 16 million of

00:37:07   these asha things that they call

00:37:10   smartphones but there you know I don't

00:37:12   know once like a what they called s40 or

00:37:15   what I don't even know what the name of

00:37:16   the operating system is certainly

00:37:17   wouldn't qualifies as a smartphone that

00:37:19   you would put up against you know

00:37:22   high-end android or iphone so you know

00:37:27   you could sell the company's can sell 80

00:37:29   90 million piece-of-crap phones a

00:37:32   quarter doesn't mean that there's any

00:37:34   money to be made and are that they're

00:37:35   good devices right and that's and again

00:37:39   I think that's where they'll draw the

00:37:40   line but then as far as like this the

00:37:43   screen size on the iphone series like

00:37:47   and did you find that tweet the or

00:37:50   you're going to read from yeah here it

00:37:52   is it's from Vlad sebab who i am hoping

00:37:56   that misremembering i'm pretty sure he

00:37:57   repeat rights for her right

00:38:00   I just want to make sure it wasn't a

00:38:01   gadget but i did I think he's one of the

00:38:03   guys who used to write in gadget and

00:38:04   went to the verge when they left

00:38:07   so here's the tweet and I've written

00:38:08   about this many times before but it's

00:38:10   still true

00:38:11   the world's best-selling smartphone has

00:38:13   a 4-inch screen

00:38:14   none of its competitors have a flagship

00:38:16   model smaller than 4.7 inches on and

00:38:21   then over at the courts this guy is such

00:38:24   a jackass what's-his-name i got this

00:38:29   when their website makes it so hard to

00:38:30   find bylines christopher mims yeah

00:38:34   christopher mims I has his article about

00:38:38   see now I've lost it because they got

00:38:41   them websites when you scrolled if you

00:38:43   scroll too far it goes to the next

00:38:45   article m Apple refuses to make the one

00:38:48   mobile device taking over the world but

00:38:50   not for long

00:38:51   and what's that device fab phablets

00:38:53   uh-huh right and so but why why do you

00:38:58   see there I've seen this argument for

00:39:00   why when his apple going to make a

00:39:01   5-inch from one example going to make a

00:39:02   5-inch on Apple's gotta make five inch

00:39:04   from because everybody else is making

00:39:05   and some people are you know they're set

00:39:07   somebody selling 10 million of them or

00:39:08   something like that

00:39:09   I you know instead what it's I think

00:39:12   samsung sold 10 million galaxies notes

00:39:14   which is their giant as you know

00:39:17   five-plus inch phone which is a lot but

00:39:20   apple sells like 25 to 30 million

00:39:24   iphones quarter now so it's not like 10

00:39:27   million Galaxy Notes means that

00:39:31   something is totally beating the iphone

00:39:35   as Vlad said the single best selling

00:39:37   phone in the world is is the iphone why

00:39:40   does nobody else write articles like why

00:39:43   does it seem like almost nobody writes

00:39:44   articles saying when it when are these

00:39:46   other guys going to make a 4-inch from

00:39:48   like why not copy the best like of all

00:39:51   the stuff and all the accusations of

00:39:52   copying that's out there doesn't seem

00:39:54   like anybody has any interest in copying

00:39:55   the size of the ipod well and then when

00:39:59   they do like Nokia had that one windows

00:40:01   phone but it was severely underpowered

00:40:03   it was like clearly builders like

00:40:05   they're cheap phone

00:40:06   yeah that's that's a good example that

00:40:08   was the original all Lumia I forget the

00:40:11   number of things i said something maybe

00:40:12   was at the 800 of the 700 and it was a

00:40:15   what are the big ones but yeah the

00:40:17   original was a 700 yeah and it's my

00:40:19   single favorite hard with my single

00:40:22   favorite non iphone smartphone that I've

00:40:24   ever used by far really not really nice

00:40:29   and I love the size and in fact the size

00:40:31   was actually if anything it was a little

00:40:34   bit bigger wasn't a 3.5 inch screen

00:40:37   because I i think all the windows phones

00:40:39   are 69 I think they have the it's like

00:40:41   hard coded in the rules for Windows

00:40:43   Windows Phone that their screens are all

00:40:45   69 so it's really more like the iphone 5

00:40:48   screen size and I think it was you know

00:40:50   like 4.1 inches or something like that

00:40:53   but about the with you know it was very

00:40:57   much like the iphone 5 sighs about the

00:40:58   width of the traditional iphone but

00:41:02   taller so it was actually they got to

00:41:05   where Apple has gotten too before Apple

00:41:07   but there's a big difference and I've

00:41:11   you know I've used some of these bigger

00:41:12   5 or 4 points something you know I 4.7

00:41:16   inch phones and i'm not saying that

00:41:19   there's a you know meee when I bad mouth

00:41:21   then people say well I love mine and I

00:41:24   don't doubt that I don't doubt that some

00:41:26   people like the bigger size i'm sure you

00:41:28   know there's plenty of use cases for it

00:41:31   I but I don't understand why nobody

00:41:34   copies apple in this regard given that

00:41:36   the iphone remains the single

00:41:37   best-selling and most popular phone in

00:41:39   the world

00:41:40   well and some of that so some of that

00:41:43   could be just power efficiency like

00:41:46   remember you know I think you wrote

00:41:48   about some other people were writing

00:41:49   about how the first LTE phones had to be

00:41:52   that big because of that was i said and

00:41:56   i had heard that from a guy from HTC and

00:42:00   I asked him about that and he basically

00:42:02   confirmed you know I don't even

00:42:04   it wasn't like some interview on the

00:42:06   record but it was just some guy in a in

00:42:08   a booth and he's like yeah that sounds

00:42:09   right like that the the the first

00:42:12   generation LTE phones have to be bigger

00:42:16   because of the chipset and maybe maybe

00:42:18   also the battery I don't know

00:42:20   yeah because uh oh I think the chips

00:42:23   were bigger but the it and it's every

00:42:25   time a new generation of cellular

00:42:26   technology comes out the first round of

00:42:28   chips

00:42:29   are woefully power and efficient right i

00:42:33   mean that's why it's exactly why the

00:42:34   original iphone didn't even have 3g was

00:42:37   that Apple you know when they made the

00:42:40   I've original iphone in 2006 to to ship

00:42:44   in 2007 couldn't get the battery life

00:42:47   they wanted out of 3g took another year

00:42:51   uh that's why Apple was later than any

00:42:53   of its major competitors to LTE that

00:42:56   they couldn't get the battery life they

00:42:57   wanted out of it so i think that I mean

00:43:01   it could that'd still be the explanation

00:43:03   for why android phones are much bigger

00:43:05   it is it that that Android the operating

00:43:08   system uses more power you know it is

00:43:10   less efficient than iOS or maybe that

00:43:14   the chips that that they use are less

00:43:16   efficient than the ones that Apple has

00:43:17   custom designed for itself

00:43:19   I obviously have no idea but that's one

00:43:22   potential reason another could be that

00:43:25   people actually do like the larger

00:43:26   phones i actually I it but there's

00:43:29   existence proof the fact that the iphone

00:43:31   is the world's most popular single phone

00:43:33   means that there's also there is also

00:43:35   demand for smaller well that's a little

00:43:39   i mean so to play devil's advocate the

00:43:41   reason that the iphone is the world's

00:43:43   best-selling phone probably has very

00:43:45   little to do with its screen size which

00:43:47   is a you know another argument as to why

00:43:48   that the other ones me should you maybe

00:43:50   shouldn't you should should try to go

00:43:53   smaller but part of it is because Apple

00:43:56   only has what like three different phone

00:43:59   model if you want to get an iphone even

00:44:01   really only got it you choose a model

00:44:03   year

00:44:04   yeah you don't little choice and you

00:44:05   don't get a choice inside so you we

00:44:07   can't prove it that is a good point to

00:44:08   prove you know i mean it and it's the

00:44:11   iphone it's better in so many other

00:44:12   categories that people you know perhaps

00:44:14   there are people who say man I really

00:44:16   want a 5-inch screen but i want an

00:44:18   iphone more so I'm gonna get the iphone

00:44:20   so I don't you know I don't know if

00:44:21   that's necessarily like causation but

00:44:23   well but the thing that gets me though

00:44:26   is that there's why hasn't anybody even

00:44:28   tried it though

00:44:29   why hasn't anybody since that one first

00:44:31   lumia tried and iphone sighs device and

00:44:37   that you said that first lumia if it you

00:44:39   know sputtered in the marketplace

00:44:41   I don't

00:44:42   certainly had nothing to do with the

00:44:43   physical size of it was the fact that it

00:44:45   was the first version of windows phone

00:44:47   7i and was really really limited

00:44:51   technically by the the software and a

00:44:53   lot of ways it was a great device but it

00:44:58   was really really limited software wise

00:45:01   in terms of the apps and may however

00:45:02   however far behind windows phone remains

00:45:04   today in terms of apps in their app

00:45:06   store and stuff like that

00:45:08   ah it was like night and day when you

00:45:10   know compared to think about two years

00:45:12   ago when that first lumia came out so

00:45:14   someone somewhere is making this

00:45:16   decision and you know i would love to

00:45:18   hear it i'm sure you would to like what

00:45:19   the actual reasoning is behind it

00:45:22   one reason maybe just the opportunity to

00:45:24   set to say that

00:45:26   oh there is something different about

00:45:28   this phone than the iphone and it's

00:45:32   bigger and bigger is better right

00:45:34   big of course Biggers better but not one

00:45:36   competitor not one but not even writing

00:45:38   again right and that's supposed to be

00:45:40   the difference between apples platforms

00:45:43   and quote unquote open ones like windows

00:45:46   in the android is it is and it's a lot

00:45:48   easier to see how it's in Apple's

00:45:50   interest to have one canonical screen

00:45:53   size

00:45:54   ah or now a new one but that is

00:45:59   minimally different as the old screen

00:46:01   size as possible right and that when

00:46:03   they went to hire screen resolutions

00:46:05   they did it instead of going incremental

00:46:07   II and adding a few pixels per inch

00:46:09   every year they waited three years and

00:46:12   then one fell swoop went to double the

00:46:15   resolution but at exactly the same

00:46:16   physical size you can see how that's an

00:46:18   apples interest with the control they

00:46:20   have over the whole platform you know so

00:46:23   that for the ease of software

00:46:24   development and developer targeting

00:46:26   devices and wha what's the word

00:46:28   everybody always uses a fragmentation

00:46:31   fragmentation to minimize fragmentation

00:46:33   edited apples interest but the whole

00:46:35   point with android I supposed to be like

00:46:38   windows where you get this incredible

00:46:41   plethora of devices that are supposed to

00:46:44   you know run the gamut from everything

00:46:46   from

00:46:48   you know blackberry style keyboard

00:46:50   devices to you know touch screens

00:46:53   ah so some of the funny thing is it a

00:46:56   lot of that is being dictated by the

00:46:59   carriers and that's kind of my point to

00:47:02   you linked to a great post by mg Siegler

00:47:05   the other day about samsung is the fifth

00:47:06   horseman and the the reality about

00:47:09   samsung and most of the android

00:47:11   companies is that they're in a way not

00:47:14   not necessarily you know the only one to

00:47:17   credit for their success or failure so

00:47:20   much of their business is dictated by

00:47:22   you know the the guy at verizon and AT&T

00:47:25   and Sprint who decides what phones they

00:47:27   want to sell in their stores right now

00:47:29   there's a lot of interplay they're both

00:47:31   ways and credit samsung for being able

00:47:34   to be profitable which a lot of their

00:47:36   competitors aren't but a lot of their

00:47:37   lot of their all of their competitors

00:47:39   are right yeah right i mean that's the

00:47:41   thing to keep in mind is that there are

00:47:42   only two companies in the world right

00:47:44   now turning a profit in and smartphones

00:47:47   and that's apple with like seventy-five

00:47:49   percent of the profit and Samsung with

00:47:52   all of the rest

00:47:53   I mean HTC just reported results that

00:47:55   made like 10 bucks last quarter it was

00:47:57   really I mean it was like

00:47:58   record-breaking Lee sad like 2,000 all

00:48:01   the way back to like two thousand seven

00:48:02   levels of like profit for your HTC yeah

00:48:06   I wonder if that that horrible

00:48:09   acquisition they made and then get rid

00:48:10   of the beats headphone company i wonder

00:48:13   if they had anything to do with it

00:48:14   I can't imagine that they paid that much

00:48:16   for beats that it would that it would i

00:48:18   think it was like half a billion dollars

00:48:20   but i think it's i really think i have

00:48:22   got their stuff but a horse did you and

00:48:25   I link to the earlier this week has

00:48:27   pointed out that Samsung spends an

00:48:29   ungodly amount of money on marketing

00:48:31   compared to all of its competitors and

00:48:33   that they're on pace to spend like I

00:48:35   think like 12 billion dollars for

00:48:37   calendar 2012 and he wrote this post

00:48:39   like 3-4 months ago so like the

00:48:42   projection was like projected for 2012

00:48:44   but mostly based you know based on a

00:48:46   couple quarters of actual results that

00:48:48   Samsung spends like 12 billion dollars

00:48:50   last year on marketing and stuff that

00:48:54   you can more or less call marketing I

00:48:56   Apple spent I think under a billion

00:48:58   dowel and hpc

00:49:01   a little more a Microsoft spend a little

00:49:04   more but you can add up

00:49:06   Apple Microsoft del I who else had a

00:49:10   list and they were all like combined

00:49:12   we're like one-third of what Samsung

00:49:13   spend on marketing and that they spend

00:49:16   even more than coke and coke like

00:49:18   coca-cola company and has famously all

00:49:21   marketing like that's the only thing you

00:49:22   could do with with soda pop is is

00:49:25   marketed I because you're selling you

00:49:29   know you're selling stuff you know fifty

00:49:31   sixty cents you know I guess so to cost

00:49:34   more than that what I've been that's

00:49:35   like a dollar you know a dollar a shot

00:49:38   I you have to market the hell out of it

00:49:40   when you're only selling stuff for a

00:49:41   dollar a shot and that nobody else can

00:49:45   compete with that HTC can't spend 12

00:49:47   billion dollars a year on marketing and

00:49:49   the results have been maybe you know how

00:49:51   they're able to win all these deals with

00:49:53   the carrier's say will spend the hell on

00:49:55   marketing because we can

00:49:56   that means you'll buy our phones at

00:49:58   these prices and you know we'll work

00:50:00   together on on what the products

00:50:01   actually right and feel like and right

00:50:03   and it'll work out for all of us and

00:50:05   part of that marketing is not just it's

00:50:07   not just advertising it's stuff like

00:50:09   look if you you know that the spiffs and

00:50:12   kickbacks and stuff like that they give

00:50:14   to you know the salespeople in carrier

00:50:17   stores one that works that works for

00:50:21   phones because in on I've written about

00:50:23   this for years to that the phone

00:50:24   business is still you know unique in

00:50:27   that way it's like it's like buying a

00:50:29   car we're buying a car is is unlike

00:50:31   buying anything else because car dealers

00:50:33   are this weird sort of Moon Man retail

00:50:35   landscape buying cell phones is still

00:50:37   like that you know their most people

00:50:39   when they go by and I get you know I

00:50:42   getting you pregnant like this too but i

00:50:43   can email like this all the time are

00:50:45   there still people who say like hey my

00:50:47   dad went to went to buy a new phone and

00:50:49   he was gonna want to buy an iphone and

00:50:50   he goes into the verizon places but

00:50:52   these last three phones and said I want

00:50:54   to buy an iphone and guys like you don't

00:50:56   want the iphone you want this and and

00:50:58   steersman otherwise i know i want the

00:50:59   iphone and you know either the the

00:51:02   emails usually end with did one of two

00:51:04   ways usually it's like and any ended up

00:51:06   buying that you know the samsung galaxy

00:51:08   whatever and now it kinda hates any

00:51:10   wishes he had the iphone or be that the

00:51:13   guy you know actually had to leave the

00:51:14   store and just

00:51:15   went to the apple store products but

00:51:17   that you know and that's that's why

00:51:19   those retail stores are such a you know

00:51:21   such an advantage for Apple not only

00:51:22   from the no marketing and sales

00:51:25   perspective but they all they sell their

00:51:27   iphone so right if you think to go and I

00:51:30   think that's huge for the ipad 2 I mean

00:51:32   no one in their right mind thinks I need

00:51:34   a new ipad I'm gonna go to the verizon

00:51:35   store right and that's and that's

00:51:37   exactly where I'm heading which is wide

00:51:39   that explains why Samsung has heads you

00:51:42   know trade undeniably terrific success

00:51:44   selling touchscreen smartphones and

00:51:47   almost no success selling tablets

00:51:49   I mean they're you know if I got tiny

00:51:52   little blip on the radar that all the

00:51:55   galaxy tabs that they've sold today

00:51:56   which is why they're also starting to do

00:51:59   their own stores but we'll see how that

00:52:01   works out I don't know it's interesting

00:52:03   i had once heard the nokia before you

00:52:06   know before the iphone all the stuff

00:52:07   nokia was famous for its worldwide sales

00:52:12   infrastructure like it was nokia that

00:52:14   had all the guys in India selling out of

00:52:17   bands and that kind of stuff and the

00:52:19   story I heard was that Samsung was

00:52:21   starting to have some real success their

00:52:23   packaging packaging cell phones along

00:52:28   with their like washing machine

00:52:29   infrastructure and that kind of stuff in

00:52:32   those markets but obviously I have no

00:52:34   idea if that's sure not but it that

00:52:37   could explain how some of that sales

00:52:39   promotion stuff works to it not not just

00:52:41   that the shining out the nice verizon

00:52:44   store in in a big US city but also

00:52:46   around the world where Samsung it was

00:52:49   interesting i was in I was in Japan a

00:52:51   couple weeks ago and Samsung obviously

00:52:54   is has done very well there too but

00:52:56   there's there's a lot of tension between

00:52:58   the Japanese and Koreans over things

00:53:02   like these islands in the middle of the

00:53:04   Pacific Ocean that they dispute who owns

00:53:06   them and just stuff like that and so it

00:53:10   and of course that the decline of sony

00:53:12   and Japan is just a huge topic of

00:53:15   embarrassment for the Japanese and so

00:53:18   what Samsung has done there is

00:53:20   interesting is in their advertising they

00:53:22   don't have Samsung's name at all it's

00:53:25   just it's all galaxies

00:53:26   uh-huh they interesting because

00:53:29   galaxy is a new brand that's not you

00:53:30   know that's not owned by the Korean

00:53:32   samsung company but it's a no you know I

00:53:35   try not to amplify that part it's just

00:53:37   galaxy it's a whole new thing so there

00:53:40   were a bunch of i posted on splat after

00:53:42   a bunch of like merry Christmas from

00:53:44   galaxy signs up in Tokyo that had that

00:53:48   literally did not have samsung you know

00:53:50   in the ad at all or maybe it was like

00:53:52   really really small and some of the

00:53:53   phone but it wasn't like Samsung Galaxy

00:53:56   wishes you merry christmas it was all

00:53:58   galaxies so it's kind of interesting the

00:54:00   way they've done that there i've seen a

00:54:01   few things from people who have a I

00:54:04   definitely have a better perspective on

00:54:06   those sort of cultural dynamics in Asia

00:54:13   better than I do i do who said that you

00:54:17   know for a long time that months you

00:54:20   know you're even really is this Apple

00:54:22   Samsung rivalry and and legal stuff has

00:54:25   escalated that escalated that however

00:54:29   much it gets played up in the press of

00:54:31   samsung vs apple it's really that's

00:54:33   really just a coincidence of the fact

00:54:36   that they're both in this specific

00:54:41   market of touchscreen smartphones and

00:54:43   that they're battling it out and the

00:54:45   stakes are very high and they're both

00:54:46   both having tremendous success but that

00:54:49   institutionally the company that Samsung

00:54:52   has as long had its gunsights on his

00:54:56   sonne that they have they have

00:54:58   explicitly been gunning for everything

00:55:01   sony does for years decades maybe that

00:55:05   they know when they got started in

00:55:06   consumer electronics their whole goal

00:55:08   was to to take sony down and they kind

00:55:12   of have really they really have I mean

00:55:15   even in stuff and like you said is that

00:55:17   in terms of being a source of

00:55:18   embarrassment like the fact that they've

00:55:19   taken over as a leader and in TVs is

00:55:25   really weird I guess you're old enough

00:55:26   and I don't know I feel like if you're

00:55:28   young maybe you don't know but like when

00:55:30   we were kids like a sony TV was it and I

00:55:33   mean that was the best that I mean that

00:55:35   was it i mean you know if you got this i

00:55:37   don't even matter what sides or whatever

00:55:39   if you got sony tv trinitron turn it on

00:55:41   what

00:55:42   like any new you got like you know if

00:55:44   it's just so much better it was I mean

00:55:46   you just added maybe it wasn't even

00:55:48   better but everybody certainly thought

00:55:49   it was better it was the you know as

00:55:51   they say the Cadillac of tvs i remember

00:55:55   the first time I bought a samsung

00:55:56   computer monitor and I think my dad was

00:55:59   like what you got a samsung and I'm like

00:56:01   oh I actually they're pretty good now

00:56:03   but so here's the funny thing is that i

00:56:06   have been using my iPad Mini like a ton

00:56:10   over the especially over Christmas I was

00:56:12   kind of not really doing anything for a

00:56:13   couple weeks and I don't know I kind of

00:56:17   now I kinda see where the stick galaxy

00:56:19   note is coming from like the really big

00:56:21   phone and I don't think I would want

00:56:24   that i don't know i don't know if i want

00:56:26   that is my only phone like I do really

00:56:28   appreciate that the iphone barely even

00:56:30   makes a bump in my pocket but it would

00:56:33   be kinda cool to have an iPad Mini or

00:56:35   something a little smaller than that

00:56:37   with me all the time as my kind of

00:56:40   everything device i don't know maybe I'm

00:56:42   maybe I'm getting a little weird but

00:56:44   well I don't deny that and I do feel

00:56:47   right you know there's there's a certain

00:56:48   anti-apple contingent that you know I

00:56:51   saw it on Twitter today just from a few

00:56:53   things that I tweeted who their

00:56:54   perspective is sort of

00:56:57   I'm not quite sure why they think they

00:57:00   seem to think that if it's true there

00:57:02   they assume that it's true that Apple is

00:57:04   going to make a five-minute phone and

00:57:06   that you know in that interview Apple

00:57:08   gets every all these idiots think apples

00:57:10   leader but apples really the follower

00:57:12   like that the ipad mini is just a

00:57:14   response to these other tablets you know

00:57:18   the 7 inch sized tablets and that it's

00:57:20   an about-face because you know Steve

00:57:22   Jobs poo-pooed a 7-inch tablet three

00:57:25   years ago and that Apple is going to

00:57:28   make a 5-inch phone and that i'm not

00:57:32   quite sure why they think they haven't

00:57:34   yet though that they did they think that

00:57:36   they think that Apple couldn't that

00:57:37   Apple is like technically inept and

00:57:39   can't make a 5-inch phone it doesn't

00:57:42   really make much sense to me where

00:57:44   they're coming from with this sort of

00:57:46   apples gonna have to follow these other

00:57:49   guys eventually perspective you know

00:57:52   that clearly apple can make an iphone

00:57:54   whatever size they want

00:57:55   I that they choose not to write I think

00:57:58   that a lot of people I see this will

00:58:01   actually a lot in even just tech

00:58:03   journalist him which is confusing the

00:58:06   order of in which things happen with

00:58:08   with what's actually the cause for them

00:58:12   yes yeah so much of it has to do with

00:58:14   things that are you know are not

00:58:17   actually one thing causing another thing

00:58:19   just because it happened after it like

00:58:21   there could be that Apple wanted to

00:58:23   release a four-and-a-half inch phone a

00:58:25   year before but they you know they're

00:58:27   there was something else in the product

00:58:29   cycle that that didn't permit or maybe

00:58:31   the ipad mini had been tested just as

00:58:34   long as the first ipad but they didn't

00:58:36   want to make it so close to the size of

00:58:38   a phone at first because they weren't

00:58:41   sure if that was you know a convincing

00:58:43   argument to buy it so writer just

00:58:45   couldn't make it thin enough or that

00:58:47   graphics performance exactly thin enough

00:58:49   for cheap enough or any of you know that

00:58:52   they're there could be a billion

00:58:53   different reasons for why these things

00:58:55   happen especially in the order that they

00:58:57   happen that that really have nothing to

00:58:59   do with you know what else is going on

00:59:01   an apple is a lot of times except in the

00:59:04   cases of something like the iphone where

00:59:06   really was like nothing that came before

00:59:08   it but when it comes to things that are

00:59:11   more incremental like new sizes of

00:59:15   existing things apple usually is behind

00:59:19   certainly not first because they don't

00:59:22   rush things out and somebody else is

00:59:23   going to rush that the thing out right I

00:59:27   mean somebody else is going to make a

00:59:28   7-inch tablet first ones tablets exist

00:59:31   because they'll somebody else is going

00:59:33   to be willing to do it badly

00:59:35   absolutely and like for example this you

00:59:38   know that the iphone what if what if to

00:59:42   make the screen bigger a year earlier

00:59:44   they had to ship it

00:59:45   I you know a 2 millimeters thicker to

00:59:49   account for the old 30-pin cable

00:59:51   well now we're talking about a really

00:59:52   big phone in your pocket but the fact

00:59:55   that they were able to make it thinner

00:59:57   because of the newport and also probably

00:59:59   some other in

00:59:59   some other in

01:00:00   programs and battery and that sort of

01:00:01   stuff that that may have justified

01:00:03   making it a little longer because it's

01:00:05   it's thinner so that's overall volume is

01:00:08   about the same i don't know there's a

01:00:10   lot just a lot of weird stuff that goes

01:00:12   into the stuff that it's not a apple

01:00:14   copied amazon kindle because they have a

01:00:16   smaller I've had let me run this by you

01:00:19   before before we switch topics and and

01:00:22   it's the sort of thing that I don't know

01:00:24   if i run it up on daring fireball to

01:00:26   sort of thing that's gonna drive the

01:00:28   people who think I'm and I'll just an

01:00:31   idiot fanboy up a tree but the my

01:00:35   thinking on this sort of goes along the

01:00:37   lines of something that John siracusa

01:00:39   has often mentioned about buying tvs

01:00:42   that when you go into a big box retailer

01:00:44   retailer to buy a TV they have the TV's

01:00:48   on the show floor set at these

01:00:50   preposterous settings with unbelievable

01:00:53   amount of contrast and color saturation

01:00:55   because when you're sitting there

01:00:58   looking at 30 different tvs in a best

01:01:01   buy your is going to get drawn to the

01:01:04   one with these the most vibrant color

01:01:07   saturation and contrast even though you

01:01:10   would never want to set it like that in

01:01:12   your home because it you're ruining skin

01:01:15   tones in the way that like movies and TV

01:01:17   shows are supposed to look they're not

01:01:18   supposed to look anything like that but

01:01:20   what you buy when you're looking at

01:01:22   things side by side isn't necessarily

01:01:23   what's best for you right

01:01:28   and so I think there might be a factor

01:01:29   like that play with phone sizes that

01:01:32   you're in the market for an whose phone

01:01:35   and you go into look at them and you see

01:01:38   one that's bigger and you think well I

01:01:40   want to do a lot of reading it's better

01:01:41   to read and clearly this the whole thing

01:01:44   it's clearly a trade-off right this

01:01:46   there's absolutely good things and bad

01:01:48   things to be said about form factors

01:01:50   that are even smaller than the iphone

01:01:52   right there are some cases where you

01:01:53   know like a 2.5 inch iphone might be

01:01:56   better or wash or whatever right

01:01:59   everything's a trade-off in life anyways

01:02:01   especially when you're talking about

01:02:02   relatively incremental differences in

01:02:05   size and let in the grand scheme of

01:02:07   computing devices if you went back in

01:02:09   time

01:02:10   20 years just 20 years to like to the

01:02:13   CES r apple unveiled the Newton and you

01:02:16   had an iphone in your one hand and a

01:02:19   samsung galaxy note in the other you

01:02:21   know two radically different to our

01:02:23   minds today the smartphones and show

01:02:26   them to someone in 1992 they would think

01:02:28   they're two of the exact same thing

01:02:29   right and in you know it's the exact

01:02:31   same thing its wow you guys have amazing

01:02:33   little handheld touch screen color

01:02:36   devices

01:02:37   ah 20 years from now can't wait whereas

01:02:40   today we know we can make a bigger

01:02:41   difference over the bigger deal over the

01:02:44   difference between a 4-inch in five-inch

01:02:45   screen but i think there might be a

01:02:49   factor there where if there were two

01:02:51   iphones side-by-side like what if Apple

01:02:54   did a 5-inch phone would it be

01:02:56   would they do it alongside one that

01:02:58   still the existing sighs I don't know

01:03:01   that they could because I feel like I

01:03:04   people when they go and look at them

01:03:07   side-by-side would be disproportionately

01:03:10   drawn to the bigger one because they

01:03:11   just would think on the show floor that

01:03:13   the good things about a bigger one

01:03:15   standout visually whereas the good

01:03:19   things about the smaller one like

01:03:20   feeling better in your pocket all day

01:03:22   long or being easier to use one handed

01:03:25   while you're doing something else or

01:03:27   just walking

01:03:28   I don't really show when you're trying

01:03:31   to finish in a store and that more

01:03:33   people would buy the five than the four

01:03:35   maybe you know to the point where the

01:03:36   four wouldn't even sell for in size 1

01:03:38   wouldn't sell that well even though

01:03:40   Apple might know or at least think based

01:03:44   on their own design work internally that

01:03:48   the smaller size is actually better

01:03:51   you see what I'm getting at and so it's

01:03:56   better for them at least in Apple's mind

01:03:58   that maybe Apple actually truly believe

01:04:01   he was having tried 5-inch iphones or

01:04:04   other sizes in sternly to apple that

01:04:07   more people would be better are not

01:04:09   necessarily everybody but more people

01:04:11   would be happier with the smaller size

01:04:13   than a bigger size but if that they made

01:04:14   both a lot of people whatever would make

01:04:17   the wrong choice and so they're not even

01:04:19   gonna let you make that choice they're

01:04:21   going to make that choice for you and

01:04:22   only make

01:04:23   what are now considered smaller

01:04:27   smartphones

01:04:28   yeah I think there's something to that

01:04:29   and i think that you know and amplifying

01:04:32   on that is that maybe apples the only

01:04:34   company that does try to do that

01:04:36   thinking for you and maybe even the only

01:04:38   one with the confidence to do that you

01:04:41   know every time you see Johnny I've

01:04:43   speak or you know you would hear this

01:04:45   from Steve to its kind of the Dead you

01:04:48   know the the essence of what they're

01:04:49   saying is that they they want you to be

01:04:52   happy with your device and that they

01:04:54   will often make decisions for you that

01:04:56   you may not even know that you need to

01:04:58   make whether you certainly don't know

01:05:00   the right answer to because you haven't

01:05:02   spent as much time with this thing is

01:05:04   they have and you know and ultimately a

01:05:07   year later you'll thank them for it

01:05:09   right and i think it's exactly the sort

01:05:11   of thing about Apple that makes apple

01:05:12   such a polarizing company is that for me

01:05:14   that I see that is a good thing because

01:05:17   I trust that they know more about this

01:05:19   than I do because they're this is what

01:05:21   they do and i would rather leave it to

01:05:24   an expert to make those decisions and

01:05:26   try both out and have you know spend

01:05:29   weeks walking around Johnny I'd secret

01:05:31   lab with a 5-inch iphone before deciding

01:05:33   you know what my thumbs hurt more

01:05:35   you know and making those decisions and

01:05:37   then I feel better I feel like it's

01:05:39   easier to make these purchasing

01:05:40   decisions then having to do it all for

01:05:43   me and I think that's exactly the same

01:05:44   thing that drives some people that to

01:05:46   hate apple well it's it's a similar

01:05:48   argument to you know should you be

01:05:50   allowed to have the file system in iOS

01:05:53   right you know oh I don't people you

01:05:56   know demanding that sort of feature but

01:05:57   maybe the the real answer is it in the

01:05:59   long run know you don't want access to

01:06:01   the file system so and then Apple has

01:06:04   the confidence to make that decision for

01:06:06   you and actually like the to control the

01:06:08   to back it up you know to make sure that

01:06:11   no one gets in there and in the long run

01:06:14   you're happy with it and to make that

01:06:16   two have the foresight to see that there

01:06:18   are many repercussions of making such a

01:06:22   decision that that play out to the

01:06:24   benefit of everyone and that yes even if

01:06:26   expert users could use file system

01:06:31   access on the iphone and not get

01:06:32   confused and not screw things up and it

01:06:35   could in theory be done in a way

01:06:37   where most people wouldn't even turn on

01:06:40   the setting in settings that lets you do

01:06:42   it and they'd still have the same

01:06:44   experience that they have on the iphone

01:06:47   where nobody has access to the file

01:06:49   system that because they've made that

01:06:51   decision it forces all developers to get

01:06:55   on board with this in a way that if it

01:06:58   were an option that you could turn on

01:07:00   developers might not and then you know

01:07:04   you know what I mean that it is a and i

01:07:06   will admit like I'm actually pretty

01:07:07   surprised how quickly

01:07:09   pretty much everyone got the new screen

01:07:12   size apps out for for the new iphone so

01:07:14   maybe that sort of stuff is easier than

01:07:17   we thought I don't know

01:07:18   well that's the land that's the last

01:07:20   point to me about a hypothetical 5-inch

01:07:23   iphone is that to me if they did it they

01:07:25   would have to introduce a new to

01:07:28   completely new app target

01:07:30   sighs I don't think that they could do

01:07:33   it with the same pixel dimensions as the

01:07:35   current phone i'm blown up because I day

01:07:40   in even leaving aside their own

01:07:43   marketing definition of what a retina

01:07:45   display is and how far away it has to be

01:07:47   from your eyes I just don't think that

01:07:49   they could do that I think if they

01:07:50   actually went to closer to five inches

01:07:52   and made a you know radically bigger

01:07:54   screen for a phone at nine sixty or 1136

01:07:58   whatever the current 1136 x 640 it it

01:08:01   would look bad or wouldn't look bad but

01:08:02   it wouldn't look as good you would note

01:08:04   you know you might actually be able to

01:08:05   notice the pixels I think that those

01:08:07   bigger sizes you need higher resolution

01:08:10   screens and developers it would be more

01:08:12   than just a little bit of letterboxing

01:08:13   at the top and bottom I i think it would

01:08:16   be like a totally new

01:08:18   pixelxdimension it would be as if they

01:08:20   cut that retina ipad screen into

01:08:23   quarters right yeah and you know like

01:08:27   you said the appeal of it would be I you

01:08:30   know to get more as you know and you

01:08:32   know I know exactly you're talking about

01:08:34   being a big big fan of the ipad mini

01:08:36   myself more and more as these as the

01:08:39   week's go by

01:08:40   ah ah that you would wit it would be

01:08:44   more than just blowing up this thing

01:08:46   would be about some kind of experience

01:08:48   halfway between the iphone and

01:08:49   ipad mini but there's no way to get

01:08:51   there by you can't shrink the ipad

01:08:54   interface any smaller than the ipad mini

01:08:56   no I'm gonna do that and yeah I don't

01:08:59   think blowing this one up without you

01:09:01   know just scaling it up another inch I

01:09:03   don't think that gives any advantage I

01:09:05   don't know what's the point of making

01:09:06   the phone bigger if it's not more the

01:09:08   the screen bigger if it's not more

01:09:09   pixels and then you can make it i mean

01:09:11   there's it yeah there's a small number

01:09:13   of people who maybe because their

01:09:14   eyesight isn't good who would actually

01:09:16   prefer that and I'm not discounting that

01:09:18   and I I'm fascinated by you know

01:09:20   accessibility issues like that but

01:09:22   that's not that's not a market that's

01:09:24   big enough to do it that's not reason

01:09:26   enough to do it then that gets back to

01:09:28   the point where that's the type of

01:09:30   that's exact dispersion that someone is

01:09:33   another company would would happily make

01:09:35   but Apple will think twice and then

01:09:37   ultimately not do because of that exact

01:09:40   reason is that it doesn't make it better

01:09:42   so just because we can make a 5-inch

01:09:44   phone doesn't mean we should or will

01:09:46   around so I I mean I know ultimately

01:09:49   will see anyone you know who knows

01:09:51   they're there were people who yelled at

01:09:52   me thought I was a crazy insane person

01:09:55   because I said once that they should

01:09:57   make a verizon iphone you know people

01:09:59   were like no why would they have more

01:10:01   than one type of phone so I you know

01:10:05   well let's get I can we should put

01:10:06   ourselves on the record do you think

01:10:08   apple will ship of a bigger screen

01:10:11   iphone in 2013 I think if they do it

01:10:15   would be so i'll say no and i'll say if

01:10:17   they do would be next year because i

01:10:18   think this year we're going to have the

01:10:20   5s and and that's about it but maybe you

01:10:23   know even i'm going to say no no no

01:10:25   bigger screen iphone in 2013 and you

01:10:29   know any other thing I think people a

01:10:30   lot of people really discount arts

01:10:32   especially people who are who android

01:10:35   fans who really liked the play

01:10:37   unbelievable plethora of android devices

01:10:39   that are that come out every single week

01:10:41   is just how big of an advantage it is

01:10:44   for Apple in the and this ties back to

01:10:47   CES right with the all these idevice you

01:10:50   know peripheral makers just how huge an

01:10:52   advantage it is for Apple that you can

01:10:54   target the entire iphone market with

01:10:58   just three sizes the iphone 3g 3gs

01:11:02   the iphone4 4s and now the iphone 5 that

01:11:05   you could with just three sizes for

01:11:08   cases you can cover all iphones that

01:11:10   have been made since 2008 I'm

01:11:12   discounting the original 2007 iphone and

01:11:15   really everyone is only making cases for

01:11:17   the more that you know the 5 and the 4

01:11:19   right sizes

01:11:21   well that's it and that's a great point

01:11:23   because when i was in in Japan a few

01:11:25   weeks ago literally like an entire floor

01:11:29   of all know like half the floor of some

01:11:31   of these electronic stores are selling

01:11:33   phone cases and that they're you know it

01:11:37   was very it was like three aisles of

01:11:39   iphone 5 cases three aisles of iphone 4s

01:11:42   cases and then like all these different

01:11:45   kinds of things for like samsung galaxy

01:11:48   and all these other like pokemon phones

01:11:51   and all this stuff and it was the the

01:11:52   options that you had as an iphone owner

01:11:54   were like 10 times more more choice than

01:11:57   any of those other ones and child

01:12:00   devices

01:12:01   I'll bet it's like a logarithmic scale

01:12:02   to wear as an iphone owner you've got

01:12:05   ten times the options of the next best

01:12:07   phone which is like the Samsung Galaxy

01:12:09   3i and then after like one or two models

01:12:13   of those a bit there's another 10 * drop

01:12:16   and if you've got something like the

01:12:18   droid something-something x you're

01:12:20   looking at maybe like a hundred times

01:12:22   fewer phone option you know case options

01:12:25   than the iphone user has yep exactly

01:12:28   know that Samsung is doing well enough

01:12:30   with their flagship ones that may be

01:12:31   there within one order of magnitude but

01:12:33   the other ones are probably two orders

01:12:34   of magnitude behind totally alright let

01:12:39   me do the second sponsor I got a couple

01:12:40   more things I want to talk to you about

01:12:41   them but our second sponsor another

01:12:45   repeat sponsor couldn't be happier to

01:12:46   have them back our friends at global

01:12:48   delight and they want me to tell you

01:12:49   about boom which is their awesome volume

01:12:52   booster and system-wide equalizer for

01:12:55   the mac boom is a utility you install it

01:12:58   on your mac and it increases the

01:13:00   system-wide volume changes the volume

01:13:02   that comes out of the built-in speaker

01:13:04   sounds like voodoo but it works I don't

01:13:06   even know how they do it i really don't

01:13:08   but it really does work it's kind of

01:13:11   amazing and it's a system-wide equalizer

01:13:15   to it

01:13:16   doesn't just make stuff louder it it

01:13:17   gives you more settings for adjusting

01:13:19   what it's what the audio coming out of

01:13:21   your your built-in speaker sounds like

01:13:23   it's great for the macbook pro macbook

01:13:26   air

01:13:27   I or even imac you really don't need is

01:13:30   the sort of thing that it it you may not

01:13:32   even need external speakers anymore

01:13:34   I and if you're taking a portable around

01:13:37   doesn't make any sense to have external

01:13:39   speakers boom can really change the way

01:13:42   that you listen to netflix or surf

01:13:45   videos on YouTube and of course music

01:13:48   that you play from itunes or or even

01:13:50   something like skype the equalizer has

01:13:57   stuff like some white presets so you

01:14:00   could have completely different presets

01:14:02   for music playback than what you would

01:14:04   use for movie playback or just regular

01:14:07   i'm just doing work uh audio really

01:14:12   great as a great interface super simple

01:14:14   to use

01:14:15   I if you know how to change volume on

01:14:18   your Mac boom is easy-to-use is using

01:14:22   the built-in volume settings

01:14:24   that's that that's how easy it is to use

01:14:26   what's the price how much you have to

01:14:28   pay for for utility like this 699 and

01:14:32   it's on the mac app store so it's super

01:14:34   easy to install and because it comes

01:14:36   from the mac app store you can also

01:14:38   there is one of my favorite things about

01:14:39   the mac app store you hear I hear

01:14:40   something like this like that its

01:14:42   utility that changes your your system

01:14:44   volume system-wide and I start to wonder

01:14:46   when you install it is it going to put a

01:14:48   lot of junk in my system kernel

01:14:50   extensions stuff like that comes from

01:14:52   the mac app store see no it's not

01:14:53   jumping up your system you can install

01:14:56   it and be sure that you're not

01:14:57   installing some kind of crazy thing

01:14:58   that's going to put a kernel extensions

01:15:00   or something like that

01:15:02   just go to the app store here's how you

01:15:04   get it search for boom Bo om I or you

01:15:08   could search for global delight or you

01:15:10   could go to global delights website at

01:15:12   global delight calm my thanks to them go

01:15:16   check out boom in the mac app store

01:15:19   he didn't drop out again today I'm here

01:15:24   i have was on mute

01:15:26   I great utility alright here's the last

01:15:31   time I talked about before I let you go

01:15:32   is as since the last time you've been on

01:15:34   the show you have launched you you dan

01:15:38   frommer you launched a new endeavor

01:15:40   called the city notes and find out about

01:15:44   it city notes dot IO you tell me you

01:15:47   give me the pitch on what what city

01:15:49   notes is so um I basically spent the

01:15:52   last seven years as a tech journalists

01:15:55   watching a lot of a lot of people and

01:15:58   companies kind of start from zero and

01:16:00   and do really cool things and at some

01:16:04   point last year

01:16:06   sorry i was actually here before I got

01:16:08   married and you know we're kind of

01:16:10   talking about like what we do you know

01:16:12   we both kind of want to start our own

01:16:13   things at some point and so I was like

01:16:17   alright finally quit my job and I'm

01:16:18   gonna figure out what kind of start up I

01:16:20   want to do and it took a little while

01:16:22   and that's the last year I had a great

01:16:24   gig writing for readwriteweb about

01:16:27   international travel technology stuff

01:16:30   and I figured out kind of quickly that I

01:16:32   really wanted to do something involving

01:16:33   travel with a name like Frommer you kind

01:16:36   of get that all that is the is the other

01:16:39   1i they have Frommer to or they flower i

01:16:42   actually don't know how they pronounce

01:16:43   it but it's spelled the same and I I

01:16:45   always people always wondering like two

01:16:47   M's yeah he was wondering are you

01:16:49   related to them are you sure that that's

01:16:51   how you pronounce your name

01:16:53   that's definitely how I pronounce my

01:16:54   name I don't know if that's how they

01:16:55   pronounce there's it might only get it

01:16:57   okay I still get you know and i always

01:16:59   get a lot of rubbers

01:17:00   I'm getting I don't have one be why

01:17:03   would it be grubber I don't get that

01:17:04   yeah like I think it's german and maybe

01:17:07   there's an accent that we've lost i

01:17:08   don't know i have no idea and I'll tell

01:17:10   the people who stake rubber usually

01:17:11   don't seem very German to me anyway

01:17:14   they've gone down so I i always want to

01:17:17   do something involving travel and you

01:17:19   know having been writing about mobile

01:17:21   you know for a long time I I knew that

01:17:24   that was kind of the future where are

01:17:27   you know our digital media industry was

01:17:29   going so it took me a few months and a

01:17:32   figured out exactly what i wanted to do

01:17:34   which was I forever I've been traveling

01:17:38   my whole life and I've always made these

01:17:39   kind of list of things for my friends to

01:17:42   do in different cities you know I had 14

01:17:46   Tokyo and Paris and New York and Chicago

01:17:49   and in san francisco and it's it's not

01:17:52   like here's a list of the obvious

01:17:55   tourist destinations that you obviously

01:17:57   know about already it's not like here's

01:18:00   the Louvre in Paris or here is the Sears

01:18:02   Tower in Chicago it's kind of the idea

01:18:05   of you know if you were to be directed

01:18:08   around a city by a cool friend here are

01:18:11   some of the places they might take you

01:18:12   you know here is it here's a somewhat

01:18:14   obscure restaurant that's really amazing

01:18:17   that you should go to here's a cool

01:18:19   neighborhood you should walk around it's

01:18:20   not going to be in your typical travel

01:18:22   guide or here's a good place to take a

01:18:24   walk or hear you know here's great

01:18:26   coffee in in Paris that they won't show

01:18:29   up in your tour guide and I'd always

01:18:32   kept these lists and kind of sent them

01:18:33   out to my friends for free and and one

01:18:35   day I realized you know this should be a

01:18:37   product like this should be something

01:18:38   that someone can buy and it should be an

01:18:41   app it should be something that you know

01:18:43   if I'm going to Minneapolis for a

01:18:45   wedding and I have six hours to kill and

01:18:47   I want to find you know where should I

01:18:49   have lunch and where can I get an iced

01:18:50   cappuccino and go for a fun walk that's

01:18:53   the kind of thing i should be able to

01:18:54   find really quickly or if i'm going to

01:18:55   Hong Kong for a week for business where

01:18:58   we know where is a couple of good bars

01:18:59   where you know where's a good restaurant

01:19:02   and it's um it's a little like the wire

01:19:05   cutter in the approach that it's not an

01:19:07   exhaustive list of four hundred places

01:19:09   to go in a city it's 10 to 22 you know

01:19:13   we'll have more than that of the best

01:19:15   places to go in a city as I love that

01:19:17   analogy comparing it to the wire cutter

01:19:19   like the wire cutter to travel for

01:19:20   travel guides and a life i think that's

01:19:22   going to make a lot of sense to people

01:19:23   out there listening because ever since

01:19:25   i've started talking about the wire

01:19:27   cutter i get on Twitter all the time

01:19:29   people hey listen to the talk show and

01:19:31   you're talking about what's that gadget

01:19:32   site instead of that only gives you like

01:19:34   three recommendations for everything

01:19:36   everybody wants everybody wants to know

01:19:38   it and like especially last month I i'm

01:19:40   sure it's because people are buying

01:19:41   gifts i got all of these emails like oh

01:19:43   my God thank you for sending me to the

01:19:45   wire

01:19:45   so all of you have checked out the wire

01:19:48   cutter I I i completely agree with with

01:19:51   dance comparison that that's what city

01:19:55   notes are our yeah I mean I it's not

01:19:59   like a necessarily a novel idea

01:20:01   you know I've been doing this for years

01:20:03   but it really makes sense like in the

01:20:05   age of of a phone that has google maps

01:20:08   and wikipedia and Foursquare and Yelp

01:20:11   and you know no shortage of list of

01:20:13   places to go period

01:20:15   why not provide someone a cross-section

01:20:17   of the absolute best places and the most

01:20:19   interesting ones and not just a bear

01:20:22   list so yeah and it's an interesting and

01:20:27   obvious i mean i'm sure you know but it

01:20:30   is interesting that compared it to the

01:20:32   pre smartphone world where you could do

01:20:37   something like this as a website or you

01:20:40   could do something like this as some

01:20:42   kind of print guide right but if it's a

01:20:46   website pre smartphone you're not going

01:20:49   to have it when you're actually there in

01:20:50   the city walking around and if you did

01:20:52   it as a print guide you would have it in

01:20:55   your pocket as you walk around but you

01:20:57   wouldn't have things like a search or

01:21:01   bored or even mapping right i mean

01:21:04   having one of the huge things that makes

01:21:06   this a natural fit for phone is you know

01:21:08   you say yes you can have my location and

01:21:11   then when you're actually in New York

01:21:13   reading your new york guide it tells you

01:21:15   here's how to get there right so things

01:21:17   that are important to me are simplicity

01:21:19   like I want i'm always going to err on

01:21:22   the side of simplicity and I guess I

01:21:24   should describe the product first

01:21:25   basically what we're building is I'll a

01:21:28   guide / city basically to start off with

01:21:30   I we did a pilot test over the holidays

01:21:33   of a new york holiday guide I kind of my

01:21:37   kind of botched the timing of having you

01:21:38   on the show by that's okay because it

01:21:42   has a really good learning experience

01:21:43   like it was the first app I'd ever

01:21:45   shipped and and it it actually did

01:21:48   pretty well like it i'm glad to hear

01:21:49   that but it is kind of funny that your

01:21:51   first one was a holiday guide and then

01:21:53   I have you on the first show after the

01:21:54   what I know it's really nice i'm looking

01:21:58   at it right now and it is it's I have to

01:22:00   say it's really nice

01:22:01   so like it looks good it's a you know if

01:22:03   that's and I think for I think everybody

01:22:06   agree that's it that's the first test

01:22:08   yeah and it's basically you know it's

01:22:10   kind of like an almost an offline

01:22:12   version of Instagram almost it's like

01:22:14   here are and we started with 20 places

01:22:17   for three bucks and we'll kind of

01:22:18   tweaked all that as we see what the the

01:22:21   right model is it may end up being free

01:22:22   with a sponsorship or it may be a dollar

01:22:26   for ten places and we're gonna do a lot

01:22:28   with in-app purchasing so maybe you'll

01:22:29   start off with like a top-10 list and

01:22:31   then you can kind of drill down into

01:22:33   different categories of things you like

01:22:34   you you might start off with like the

01:22:37   top ten whatever San Francisco list and

01:22:40   then if you if you want to do in app

01:22:42   purchases maybe you can get 10 more

01:22:44   restaurants and a guide to noe valley

01:22:47   and like a guide to maybe see great

01:22:51   yeah i mean just tossing some ideas that

01:22:53   give you these ideas free but maybe

01:22:54   separate something like eating from what

01:22:58   to do all day

01:22:59   absolutely i mean raising an army same

01:23:01   just go with my family

01:23:03   what should we do worse working we go

01:23:05   what are we supposed to know how we

01:23:07   spend our time is a very different

01:23:09   problem than where should we go for

01:23:10   dinner

01:23:11   totally SI and and based on that out

01:23:14   there

01:23:15   I appreciate that anything can be a

01:23:17   guide I mean it could be

01:23:18   we'd love to do that John Gruber guide

01:23:21   to philly if you want to do something

01:23:23   like that it could be organized around

01:23:24   something else we can do the

01:23:27   Ghostbusters guide to New York we could

01:23:29   do all kinds of stuff but the goal at

01:23:31   first is just make really really simple

01:23:33   inexpensive guides with things like

01:23:36   beautiful photography and the first appt

01:23:40   didn't have it but offline mapping

01:23:42   something that's important to me in a

01:23:44   lot of people when they're traveling

01:23:45   overseas don't want to spend a bunch of

01:23:48   data on downloading map tile so are you

01:23:51   this our system supports offline mapping

01:23:53   we did not included in the first step

01:23:55   but we can we may in future apps it's

01:23:57   actually changing a little now that now

01:23:59   that maps are vector-based it's actually

01:24:01   a lot less data than it was before so I

01:24:03   don't know if

01:24:04   help sorry that's my doorbell it's not

01:24:06   for me though alright if you need to get

01:24:08   you can get no it's not for me it's me

01:24:11   i'm down the call is coming so so we'll

01:24:16   see

01:24:16   so we have the drm the holiday guide is

01:24:19   still in the app store and actually will

01:24:20   be doing an update of that within the

01:24:22   next couple weeks and everyone will get

01:24:24   a free update to the normal New York

01:24:27   guide which will be launching sometime

01:24:30   in the next month or so i would guess or

01:24:31   maybe even a couple weeks from now and

01:24:34   then we'll do you know we'll do a

01:24:35   Brooklyn guide and will do

01:24:36   Tokyo and Paris are probably going to be

01:24:38   the next ones but the goal is to to do

01:24:41   one for every city and 222 have really

01:24:44   fresh current really high-end guides for

01:24:48   kind of like my target audience is kind

01:24:50   of the the daring fireball reader like

01:24:52   the the person who cares about fonts and

01:24:55   and like-likes design and L you know a

01:24:58   lot of the recommendations are going to

01:25:00   be a little artsy or or a little

01:25:03   design-focused for shopping and for

01:25:05   people who are interested in the best

01:25:07   stuff the best stuff the best

01:25:08   restaurants the best coffee shops and

01:25:11   again it's not the most obvious or the

01:25:13   most famous places because usually those

01:25:15   are not the best ones especially anymore

01:25:18   it's it's you know the the really good

01:25:20   up-and-comers who's the hot new sheriff

01:25:23   in town where can you you know where can

01:25:25   you see something new and interesting

01:25:26   and that's the challenge for me is is

01:25:29   kind of aggregating all information and

01:25:32   presenting it in a nice way and building

01:25:35   a business out of it but i'm really

01:25:38   excited about it actually met my

01:25:39   co-founder after appearing on the show

01:25:41   the first time I was on last summer

01:25:45   this guy named Mark dorsen emailed me

01:25:47   and said hey heard you mentioned a

01:25:49   travel thing you know i love to hear

01:25:51   about it and turns out he lives like

01:25:53   around the corner for me basically here

01:25:55   in Brooklyn and we met up and just you

01:25:58   know started hanging out eventually were

01:25:59   like hey let's work on this together so

01:26:01   so I get all the credit for your success

01:26:03   yeah you're you're more than welcome to

01:26:05   join our angel round if you'd like to

01:26:07   donate

01:26:09   alright just take the credit so yeah I

01:26:13   mean you know we both have jobs right

01:26:15   now we're working on this kind of is

01:26:16   what's the next what's the next city

01:26:18   guide that's going to come out so it's

01:26:20   going to be the main New York god I

01:26:21   think I think New York will end up being

01:26:22   probably our best seller overall time

01:26:25   and and then we need to build on our

01:26:27   platform to support like in-app

01:26:29   purchases of a booster packs or whatever

01:26:31   we're going to call them right but will

01:26:33   do New York and Brooklyn those will

01:26:34   probably separate guides with a little

01:26:38   crossover and then I was just in Tokyo

01:26:41   and so will do Tokyo probably and I was

01:26:44   in Paris a few months ago and i'm going

01:26:45   back so we'll do Paris also but you know

01:26:48   I had a couple really nice articles

01:26:51   written about it

01:26:52   techcrunch and also in the new york

01:26:53   times and I've got a lot of requests

01:26:55   from people who want to help me do

01:26:57   guides for the city's there in like new

01:26:59   orleans in Barcelona and some of it will

01:27:01   be contributors and you know kind of you

01:27:04   guys see is it set up such that if you

01:27:07   guys make a Content change does it

01:27:09   require a new version of the app or can

01:27:11   the app does the app already have all

01:27:13   the content or are you to serve the

01:27:16   content to the apps on her to make it

01:27:20   offline all the content comes with the

01:27:22   download so that means the initial

01:27:25   download is going to be a little bigger

01:27:26   than it would be if it were being pulled

01:27:28   live i think having offline access is

01:27:30   super important especially like if

01:27:32   you're in New York on the subway or if

01:27:34   you're overseas without and don't want

01:27:36   to do data roaming the system actually

01:27:39   supports kind of a way to update without

01:27:42   updating the ios app but i don't think

01:27:45   we would use that I think we plan to

01:27:47   update it infrequently enough that we

01:27:50   would also be bundling along some some

01:27:52   kind of changes to the apps technology

01:27:54   as well from you either feature

01:27:55   additions or substitute ility

01:27:57   enhancements that sort of stuff i think

01:27:59   it has a good layout i like it it's it's

01:28:02   simple and I feel like there's a

01:28:04   a tendency in a lot of me in a way it's

01:28:08   an e-book right i mean it's at least in

01:28:10   its a book type content and there's a

01:28:13   lot of there's a nerd that a lot of

01:28:15   people have any design stuff like this

01:28:16   for smartphones and tablets to to design

01:28:21   too much navigational eyes right like

01:28:23   this is an app where when you launch it

01:28:25   doesn't have to explain the interface to

01:28:27   you which is good right i mean that's

01:28:29   the problem with all these apps where

01:28:31   you launch them and you get this like

01:28:33   over you know this like overlay that

01:28:34   says here's how you use the app now you

01:28:36   open it up and it's just a list of

01:28:38   places right you just scroll the list

01:28:40   each one has a photo if you want to read

01:28:43   it you tap it and then you're in there

01:28:45   and you're looking at the place and

01:28:46   that's it and then there's a back button

01:28:48   to go back to the the main menu so it's

01:28:50   like to two levels of hierarchy d

01:28:51   perfect and I mean if you look at the

01:28:54   side that's exactly right

01:28:56   everything that we do I want to be

01:28:58   simple over everything else like that's

01:29:00   always to me the goal for everything is

01:29:02   just to make it simple because

01:29:03   ultimately like people are on vacation

01:29:05   or they're on a business trip

01:29:07   I don't want to waste a lot of people's

01:29:08   time trying to learn some complicated

01:29:10   system or or even read a lot of stuff

01:29:13   like I want to keep my descriptions

01:29:15   really short and succinct because i want

01:29:18   you to have fun while you're in Paris

01:29:20   like I don't want you to be sitting here

01:29:21   reading my my long ass essay about

01:29:23   someplace so I didn't think of it but

01:29:26   now that you mention instagram as like

01:29:28   an inspiration that is what the the main

01:29:31   index page looks like kind of the

01:29:33   pictures aren't square but it which is

01:29:35   actually better because you can fit 22

01:29:37   on the screen at once more on the screen

01:29:39   a little white little better support for

01:29:41   widescreen right but the pictures are

01:29:43   all big enough there are plenty big

01:29:44   enough that you get a good idea of what

01:29:46   what it you know if they're not

01:29:47   thumbnails their full width of the thing

01:29:49   exactly good

01:29:50   it's a great interface i really like it

01:29:53   I appreciate it and so yeah you know we

01:29:56   just we just want to provide really good

01:29:58   information and in an attractive and

01:30:00   simple package so right it that's what

01:30:03   it looks like it looks like a thing

01:30:04   feels like like a little like it's not

01:30:07   just I don't know it's not just web

01:30:09   pages or text it's it's like a little it

01:30:12   feels like a thing in your hand but it

01:30:15   can also be like you said it's kind of a

01:30:17   book it really is kind of

01:30:18   the book and that's kind of our our file

01:30:19   format is almost based off that so we'll

01:30:22   probably do in ibooks version of each

01:30:24   city and maybe even a PDF a lot of

01:30:27   people have said oh what are you going

01:30:28   to do for android and that say uh you

01:30:30   can have a PDF how does that Sam see

01:30:32   this is this is better than I think it's

01:30:34   much better of the the mapping with

01:30:36   location and all that sort of stuff i

01:30:38   think is important so we're just getting

01:30:40   started

01:30:41   this is literally version 1.0 I we we we

01:30:46   shipped a few weeks before the holidays

01:30:48   and it was funny i was in the airport

01:30:50   waiting to fly to tokyo and I got the

01:30:52   email from apple saying that had been a

01:30:54   proof of 10 I'm like oh my god about to

01:30:57   go offline for 14 hours what am I gonna

01:30:59   do

01:30:59   so did you wait uh no I didn't wait it

01:31:02   worked out everything worked out i guess

01:31:04   my ears my last question for you design

01:31:06   wise it is how quickly did you arrive at

01:31:11   the idea of each guide is its own app

01:31:14   and every time you make a new guide it

01:31:17   will be a new app in the App Store

01:31:18   versus the one city notes app and then

01:31:24   you download new guides within the app

01:31:26   which I i can I guess you at least

01:31:29   thought about so the will do both

01:31:32   it's one thing that I wanted to learn by

01:31:37   doing as opposed to just by guessing was

01:31:39   seeing is there a kind of a search based

01:31:42   reason to have a city / app when i'm

01:31:47   searching in the app store and my

01:31:49   searching for tokyo city guide for my

01:31:52   searching for travel guide app what

01:31:54   about what are people searching for

01:31:56   because it is such a city-based thing

01:31:59   short answers will find out but we do

01:32:03   what we do plan to have a main city

01:32:05   notes app and and that may ultimately be

01:32:08   the big winner in terms of sales i mean

01:32:12   that's that's the kind of thing that

01:32:13   would feature I couldn't see Apple

01:32:14   necessarily featuring a single city

01:32:16   guide unless there was a reason to lie

01:32:19   columbia and you're looking because i

01:32:20   don't imagine it's an easier way to help

01:32:22   build the city notes brand as opposed to

01:32:25   wear it with the discrete apps it's more

01:32:29   about the siege app is about that city

01:32:31   right so so we'll see uh you know I'd

01:32:34   love to learn by doing as opposed to

01:32:36   just by guessing it's yeah I now have

01:32:38   the tools to make individual apps for

01:32:41   each city really easily and then it's a

01:32:43   matter of building the kind of flag

01:32:47   tentpole flagpole I don't know flagship

01:32:50   app that has all the stuff in there and

01:32:53   will ultimately see which one works out

01:32:55   best but for now my plan is just to to

01:32:58   make a bunch of these and you know

01:33:01   hopefully the company will succeed and

01:33:03   i'll get to do this forever but who

01:33:06   knows

01:33:07   well it's been amazing sexy I think

01:33:10   you're onto something here so I city

01:33:11   notes that IO is our website city notes

01:33:15   travel is our twitter account again

01:33:18   anyone who buys the initial new york

01:33:20   city holiday guide will get a free

01:33:23   upgrade to the main New York guide so

01:33:26   you know it'll it'll end up costing the

01:33:29   same it's not going to be cheaper

01:33:30   anything close to that Apple turn into

01:33:32   that app yeah I guess so yeah the name

01:33:33   yeah i just noticed that the name of the

01:33:35   app is just New York yeah i mean

01:33:36   basically all you can change that I

01:33:38   think but that right we wanted an excuse

01:33:41   to stop selling it if we decided we

01:33:43   should so that's why we made it the

01:33:45   holiday guide and also that kind of some

01:33:48   of these places in here we're gonna take

01:33:50   out because they wouldn't really fit in

01:33:53   a non-holiday guide but well but that's

01:33:55   a great thing for everybody to know that

01:33:57   if you hear this you're listening to the

01:33:58   show right now and you're curious you

01:33:59   want to check it out

01:34:01   you can buy the the holiday guide in the

01:34:03   appstore knowing that it's not going its

01:34:06   you know it'll soon be more relevant

01:34:08   than just the the just-completed 2012

01:34:11   holiday season absolutely buy with

01:34:13   confidence it will be a free upgrade to

01:34:15   the normal New York guide unless Apple

01:34:18   tells me I can't do that but I don't

01:34:19   think NBC actually did that they turned

01:34:22   their Olympic sap into the NBC sports

01:34:26   app anyone who had downloaded the NBC

01:34:29   olympics app when they did an upgrade it

01:34:32   just turned into the generic NBC sports

01:34:34   app so i had the Olympics app and I

01:34:38   thought it was such a piece of crap that

01:34:40   I deleted it was I did I

01:34:43   delivery i watched like one basketball

01:34:45   game and then and then as soon as the

01:34:47   game was over i deleted the app is it

01:34:51   will have a new york app out within a

01:34:54   few weeks and then we'll do other cities

01:34:56   and you know I i hope by the end of the

01:34:58   year will have a dozen cities up and you

01:35:01   know this will be my full-time job but

01:35:03   who knows

01:35:04   well that's great and and you it should

01:35:08   we try to encourage people who are

01:35:10   interested in maybe writing for it to

01:35:11   contact you or no don't don't sure yeah

01:35:14   i mean i'd love to hear from some people

01:35:16   we're going to be super cautious and

01:35:18   super selective of that stuff at first

01:35:20   but right because i always said here and

01:35:22   if you're if you pull it all off you're

01:35:24   only going to do maybe it doesn't this

01:35:25   year it's not it's not a yeah you know

01:35:29   throw it all against the wall and see

01:35:30   what sticks it's not a shotgun approach

01:35:32   know and most important to me is that we

01:35:34   kind of if if the goal is to build a

01:35:37   brand that people think to know it's you

01:35:39   know make sure that the voice is really

01:35:41   genuine and consistent and and really

01:35:47   means what I wanted to like I would say

01:35:49   it did a decent job at this but I'll

01:35:51   probably look back at it in a couple

01:35:52   years ago oh man I can't believe you did

01:35:54   that but that's really important to me

01:35:57   is is just um really being proud of the

01:36:00   work we do so that's why it first we're

01:36:02   going to be a little slow probably two

01:36:04   to work with other contributors but who

01:36:06   knows we'll see but yeah i definitely

01:36:08   would love to hear you know every every

01:36:11   bit of complaints or praise like you

01:36:13   know if there's something you hate about

01:36:15   it let me know if there there's a link

01:36:17   to a survey at the bottom of the app I'd

01:36:19   love for people have take that survey

01:36:21   it's very simple should take less than a

01:36:23   minute it's just more in a couple

01:36:25   minutes and I'd love to know where

01:36:27   people are planning to travel in this

01:36:28   audience so that we can make guides for

01:36:31   the cities are going to so I've already

01:36:33   learned that Chicago and San Francisco

01:36:36   are two audience favorites so far so and

01:36:40   we'll do some other stuff too i think

01:36:41   that at some point will let readers

01:36:44   either submit places or vote on places

01:36:47   or you know even make and sell their own

01:36:49   guides at some point but for now again

01:36:52   everything I just want to keep this

01:36:53   simple and clear as possible so that

01:36:55   people get

01:36:56   information and have fun while they're

01:36:58   traveling because that's really what

01:36:59   this is about

01:37:01   I i I'd second that notion cool this

01:37:07   great stop think I pre thank you dan

01:37:09   frommer city notes die oh thank you for

01:37:12   doing the show my pleasure as always

01:37:15   well i will talk to you soon right