30: Buy High, Sell Low, with Marco Arment
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this is a this is a special evening
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edition of the talk show i guess this
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Marco Arment why are you doing this
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element again I'm trying to was so nice
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i just felt so welcome when settlement
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did that sound like you're sick i know i
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can't do it i guess i don't know so i
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think i've joined your club of people
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who don't own any apple shares directly
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you did own it before
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until today I owned a good amount of
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weight so you sold the hey I did
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oh sounds crazy I know why I've sell oh
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well I've I've been really good at
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knowing when to buy I I really haven't
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mastered the art of when to sell yet but
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I have no I over the last couple years
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of accumulated shares based on just like
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putting a little bit of money into this
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into my gambling fund every every month
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or so and and just knowing when to buy
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so i picked them up really cheap so i
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came out actually pretty pretty ahead of
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my average price is very low
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it was like four of six or something
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like that and i was waiting until
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earnings call day figuring that they
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would be a spike after the holiday
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earnings call like there was last year
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remember correctly that holiday orange
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would be so good i'd figured there be a
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spike and then i'd probably sell it all
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cuz i kind of want to get out of owning
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individual stocks I'm not I'm not that
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great at it like I haven't haven't lost
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any money with it overall but i haven't
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made enough to make it worth the hassle
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and i found that owning it was was
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making it hard for me to objectively see
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what's going on you know because it adds
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it adds a lot of skin in the game for me
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and I don't know if it's colored my my
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opinion but I think it might've and so I
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just wanted to get out of that for a lot
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of the same reasons you said you don't
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own individual shares also and you have
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a bigger problem of course of possibly
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being able to affect it
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i don't--that's problem but but i might
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someday you know that's the main thing
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for me but it's actually a good point
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that you make though about it
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objectivity you know I hate that word
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but you know that when you personally
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have skin in the game when it's your
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money it's right there is more of an
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emotional attachment and you know I
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can't honestly say i don't have any
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emotional attachment to apples success
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in general period but not owning the
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stock individually certainly makes that
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easier so i sold today at like 462 which
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is good i actually went down now it's a
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the reason i sold was because you know
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last night of course it took a huge dip
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after the run for released and and and
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and some other people were disappointed
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and and I realized that you know if this
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was this is probably going to be for
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Apple investor purposes the best news
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day for the next six months in all
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likelihood and the fact that it took
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that big of a dive on what's probably
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the best news day and for a while
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that scared me and so I i feel you know
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what let me get out now if I really want
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to get back in a later date
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I'll get back in on the upswing you know
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I didn't want it i was tired of writing
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it down and you know cuz i always feel
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like buying individual stocks as a
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casual investors kind of a sucker's game
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like the whole system there's there's
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all these big investors are so much
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bigger than us and all these
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complexities and derivatives and options
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and everything that are just way above
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my head and I just felt kind of like a
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sucker playing this game so i wanted to
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get out figured this was a good time and
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I figure you know cuz what's going to
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happen over the next few months of the
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stock price i don't see a lot of reasons
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for it to go up if it went down for this
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you know so I don't know that being said
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of course disclaimer this is not
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financial advice that I don't learn
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talking about but you know I student now
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that I got out of it I kind of already
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feel free from that burden of having to
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think about that having to babysit that
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asset and one of the things about it is
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you know for objectivity you know for me
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have to now worried about what everyone
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else thinks about Apple because with the
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when you own the stock you have to worry
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about the public as a whole like voting
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for that company at with confidence or
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the wall street voting with their
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confidence in this company right and
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we've seen time and time again I mean
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you can make this your specialty time
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and time again seeing that these odd
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disconnects between actual apple
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prospects and products and success and
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what a lot of people in the press think
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about it and I'm just so tired of having
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to worry about that disconnect as
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something that will directly affect me
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so that's that's the biggest reason I
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wanted to get out was that I realized
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owning apple products developing the act
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in the apple ecosystem you know being
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involved with Apple choosing these
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things for myself without regard to what
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the market as a whole thinks because
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they're so often so far from what I
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yeah i totally feel the same way I don't
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have any regrets over not owning apple
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stock and especially like for example I
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I even linked to a thing today pointing
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out that from 2007-2009 that the apple
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stock took a huge dive and proud of that
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obviously was that the whole economy was
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in tailspin with the you know financial
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institutions collapse but if ever there
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was a time when like if the argument now
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is that the reason that Apple stock is
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is going down and has gone down so
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severely last few months is that the
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growth is over growth growth growth
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future growth future growth is all that
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matters is what the people who are
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saying no no that the market is actually
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treating apple right and i'm the fan boy
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whose you know digging for an excuse to
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support my beloved Apple well then
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surely 2008-2009 with time when the
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stock should have been roaring because
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all the growth was ahead of it right the
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the iphone was out it was obviously
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going to grow it was anybody had two
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clues about what was going on mobile you
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know could see that this thing had a
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unbelievably tremendous future and what
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probably not that far off from Steve
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Jobs boasts that it was five years ahead
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of the competition right 2000 circuit
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2007a android was I think everybody
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would agree now is dog shit
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oh yeah I'm the people who bought it
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like I like what back then i would go to
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Alzheimer's investor things and so of
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course all the investors always have the
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brand newest phone possible and so I'm i
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remember the first time I saw the
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tmobile was the g1 the first android
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phone yeah that was a brown or am i
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that's the soon yeah it was it wasn't
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you know the black like you know it's
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like able to hang and yeah it was weird
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and even even this guy who just bought
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it was so happy to show off his oh yeah
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it's a piece of trash even he knew that
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I must have I think it was at south by
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southwest and so it might have been i
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think that that that g one came out at
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the end of 2008 so it was probably March
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2009 so again nice i think 2008-2009 is
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when if if growth was really what the
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market value future growth then that's
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when that stock should have been
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shooting up and wasn't I Merlin Mann had
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one and swore by it i don't know how
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yeah I swear to God and I remember this
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distinctly it'sit's South by Southwest
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2009 and it's daytime mean I was
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probably late afternoon private cocktail
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but i mean i still remember it was
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daytime because it was at the four
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seasons in austin and four seasons as a
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lot of Windows and so I like times that
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I'm there they've been there in the
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daylight I remember it being daytime and
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it was me and Merlin and Michael lop and
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I've never seen that the g1 before
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Merlin showed it to me and it was just
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so awful and and michael looked at and
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Michael was so repulsed like he didn't
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even want to touch it
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I mean he was like really like grossed
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out like like maybe he acted honestly he
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was he was trying to not be you know how
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like if your ear as an adult not as a
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kid but as an adult if you go somewhere
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you served some food that you're not
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going to eat you're just gonna go move
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it around your plate and not say
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anything and just be polite about it but
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that's what Michael was like he was like
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moving around this plate like but there
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is no way he was gonna actually try it
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and Merlin was given us this explanation
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for what he found appealing about it and
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you know I think it has something to do
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with gmail that you know maybe the gmail
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app did something that I that's the
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connection you know there was some kind
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of way that you can make an argument
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that it did something pretty good you
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know maybe gmail and i don't know i
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guess probably did pretty good job with
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your google calendar right
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out-of-the-box even back then but
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Michael was just an FYI didn't know what
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to say Michael was just like ultimately
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it's just like wait just but stop stop
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just look at it i mean--and and even
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Merlin who was high on the thing at the
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time he was like and he might have been
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high on something else I don't know but
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I it was like yeah you do have a point
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anyway that's when the stock should have
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been shooting up and it wasn't it's
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never really been that that related to
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well just get it also introduced on on
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any kind of you know present value of
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the company's products that you know and
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and prospects to and just like there's
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so much external force on it you know
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with you know as you said like that
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whole period when the stock was tanking
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because the whole market was tanking
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there's all those external factors so
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even when the company was doing
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fantastically with new products and
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showing tons of signs of growth the
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whole market was so bad that the stock
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price stock anyway and you know now
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we're seeing kind of other problems of
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well you know they might be reaching
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saturation in some places they might be
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you know you know they can't possibly
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keep growing their growing a year ago
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today would be the other will be more
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money from the world has to invest in
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them like there's there's all sorts of
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of external factors now that they're
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running into that are being problematic
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for the stock price even though the
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company seems like they're in really
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great shape right and i just want to
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stay here as use those anybody's
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listening to this show extemporaneous
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Lee you know and then the next day or
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two after it comes out is going to know
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the context of what we're talking about
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but the the shows are always up there
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forever and people listened to him just
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for historical context we're recording
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this on the evening of
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the 24th January 2013 and yesterday
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apple reported their results for the
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holiday quarter on the stock their stock
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opened today at like five hundred and
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ten bucks a share and it closed at 450
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so the biggest single biggest company in
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the world by market cap lost 12 over
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twelve percent of its value in a single
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day on an earnings report that that
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completed a record-breaking not for the
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company but for any company in history
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the single-most profitable year in
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history with still growing revenue and
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really I guess ultimately when it comes
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down to it you'd go through all the
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numbers the one thing that has dropped
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is their profit margins which has
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dropped from like astronomically high
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forty-five to fifty percent a year ago
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to still remarkably high like 36 or 37
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38 percent for a hardware company which
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is higher than software companies more
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margin margins like Microsoft's and
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Google's but because those because those
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margins are shrinking their earnings
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profits whatever you want to call it net
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income is shrinking year-over-year for
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the first time since 2003 even though
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we're talking about numbers like nine
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ten billion dollars per quarter in
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earnings and profit so it is not it's
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not like hey it was entirely good news
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the growth is still there
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ah but the the market reaction to it is
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absolutely ridiculous i think i would
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love to know and I just this is the sort
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of thing I googled for and couldn't find
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anything and I guess you know I after
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i'm sure there's a way to figure it out
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but I'm trying to figure out if like the
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biggest company in the world
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whatever the biggest company in the
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world as you know it was Exxon before
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like 2005 it was General Electric you
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know the title passes every couple years
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has there ever been a company at the top
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of the currently biggest market cap who
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so volatile stock the stock price as
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Apple is like a question right like
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talking about the stocks that we own
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I buy my own like ninety seven dollars
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I swear it's like 97 was more than a
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little bit more now but of serious or XM
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I don't know which ones I was like three
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yeah it was like there was a time when
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they were like on the couple years ago
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they were like on a customer going
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bankrupt enemy is my friend Paul
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Colossus and I run and he pointed it out
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to me on aim it was like hey you know
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like I forget which one is the company
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now it will be merged into serious so
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it's serious why so serious i didn't
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know so it's called Sirius XM guys they
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kept both things so I and they were
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seriously trading it like three cents a
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share or something like that and I was
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and I have it I have instead is one of
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those like this is how I make
◼
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investments i have XM in the car and
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it's all we ever listen to in the car
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and I'm happy to pay whatever it is they
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charged me a month that seems like i'm
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getting a good value for something that
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I enjoy it works very well so I thought
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well that doesn't make any sense that
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they would be going bankrupt this seems
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it seems like every car i see nowadays
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has the goofy little antenna on the roof
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for it they have just bought out their
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competitors they don't have any
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competition i'm gonna buy them because i
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don't see how this is gonna go anywhere
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without but my each I'm not an investor
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I don't keep a lot of money there my
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etrade account I swear to God had like
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twenty seven dollars or something like
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that in it so i just bought as many
◼
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shares as I could I don't know what it
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was maybe it was like 11 cents a share
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so i bought a decent number of shares
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you probably paid ten bucks to buy him
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yeah yeah I did I think like the the 999
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transaction fee took up a lot of it and
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lo and behold I forget what its trading
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and let me see it three dollars in nine
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cents so I've made money on it but i
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only started with like I don't know ice
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literally like twenty dollars i mean
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it's it was the equivalent of like when
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you're in college and you you you know
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where the mac with the ATM machines were
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that let you take out ten dollars
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instead of 20 because you only have
◼
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eighteen dollars in your account
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yeah i lost like nine nine dollars like
◼
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thirty three percent of the trade on the
◼
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action and got like twenty dollars worth
◼
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of this document it's gone way up
◼
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that's like the only individual stock I
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oh and now you can you can sell it and
◼
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maybe maybe buy an ipad mini smart cover
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yeah something like that but so let's
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talk like that though I guess stock of a
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company that is selling it at eleven
◼
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cents a share or something like that
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well you expect it may be to have one
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day when it goes up or down fifteen
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percent twenty percent because it only
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takes ten cents for it to go up fifty
◼
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percent the biggest company in the world
◼
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I'd it doesn't make any sense to me that
◼
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they would either go up or down twelve
◼
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percent in one day based on a quarter
◼
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where what they announced was really not
◼
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that far removed from what everybody was
◼
►
yeah I mean and that's one of the
◼
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reasons why I wanted to get out of
◼
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owning that stock is because it is just
◼
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so incredibly volatile and and I was
◼
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just tired of of the stress of and and
◼
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kind of the frustration every day of
◼
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like you know what is the market
◼
►
thinking with this it shouldn't be doing
◼
►
this so you know things like that and
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it's just I don't need that in my life
◼
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anymore like I I realized like the money
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I made on that over the last couple
◼
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years since i've started buying the
◼
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shares I made you know some money on it
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but i would have been probably better
◼
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served just ignoring that completely and
◼
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redirecting that effort and time and
◼
►
stress capacity into another business or
◼
►
another podcast or a few more blog posts
◼
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or something else like doing anything
◼
►
else would have been a better choice for
◼
►
me then then boring what Apple stock
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yeah this comes up for me a lot because
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I mean and I I don't blame people i
◼
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really don't because I don't expect
◼
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expect that the vast majority of people
◼
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who either list well maybe listen to my
◼
►
show they're more regulars but I
◼
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certainly understand that people who
◼
►
read my website an awful lot of them are
◼
►
not regular readers they just come there
◼
►
when somebody else links to something or
◼
►
they'll they'll think to check in 110
◼
►
hit-and-runs and so you know i think a
◼
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lot of people probably if they had to
◼
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guess would think that I do own apple
◼
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and so like on weeks like this where i
◼
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spend a lot of time and effort writing
◼
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about the stock i'll get a handful of
◼
►
really almost always very politely just
◼
►
curious not accusation will not you know
◼
►
any kind of confrontation but just
◼
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curious like hey do you own apple stock
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and then you know I have a I don't think
◼
►
i have a text expander state but if i do
◼
►
have forgotten but you know i have a
◼
►
you'd short answer that no I feel like I
◼
►
shouldn't because it's a conflict of
◼
►
interest and sometimes I write back and
◼
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say wow that's good to know
◼
►
boy that must be frustrating for you
◼
►
because I'm sure you would have wanted
◼
►
to buy it you know back when it was $72
◼
►
and share and in 2008 and man look at
◼
►
that now I and I honestly don't have
◼
►
that thought at all like i am the type
◼
►
of person who if I were by playing a
◼
►
casino game and I was betting black on
◼
►
rely on Betterlife but if I was betting
◼
►
black and I got up and left and notice
◼
►
that black just 14 in a row i would
◼
►
dammit I shouldn't you know I should've
◼
►
stayed there I don't have that any any
◼
►
kind of feeling like that with apple
◼
►
because I feel like I've done very well
◼
►
with apples success my own way you know
◼
►
that that that my website has become so
◼
►
popular people are interested in it and
◼
►
and you know I I have no complaints
◼
►
about the success I've enjoyed on in
◼
►
some sense on Apple's back over the last
◼
►
10 years I don't need it also to be in
◼
►
the stock market right and if that was a
◼
►
risk to your credibility than it would
◼
►
really not be worth exactly know that's
◼
►
a perfect point where it's actually in
◼
►
some sense it would be worse where I
◼
►
feel like being able to say you know
◼
►
being in that you know successful
◼
►
situation i am with my website right now
◼
►
and being able to say i don't own the
◼
►
stock i have no relationship with them
◼
►
and I know I've they don't give me money
◼
►
they don't pay for my trips to come to
◼
►
their events or anything is worth more
◼
►
overall I mean I can't put a price tag
◼
►
on that but it's worth more to me inside
◼
►
my head then then it would be if i put i
◼
►
don't know whatever number thousand
◼
►
dollars i could have theoretically put
◼
►
into the stock when I thought it was
◼
►
incredibly long I wonder you know what
◼
►
what effect having like a bad six months
◼
►
of of the stock like what effect that
◼
►
has the company and I think you know
◼
►
financially apples doing very well for
◼
►
themselves they have a massive pile of
◼
►
cash you know that's that all seems well
◼
►
and good and they don't seem affected by
◼
►
that I think Tim Cook is putting on a
◼
►
the good face for two and i don't think
◼
►
he has like no job security to worry
◼
►
about 40 for a long time but you know
◼
►
might be a problem for retaining talent
◼
►
I I wonder I that's the sort of thing
◼
►
where it's a and I'm a little in over my
◼
►
head but I wonder like how much Apple
◼
►
like our options still a thing for
◼
►
retain retaining talent at an apple
◼
►
I mean and like you know they can always
◼
►
reprice them like they did with jobs
◼
►
that whole problem I i assume again i'm
◼
►
also weighed in way over my head with
◼
►
the legalities of what they can do here
◼
►
but you know they they could like spend
◼
►
more money i assume to make the options
◼
►
worth more to their existing employees
◼
►
but I have to imagine this must hurt
◼
►
morale for people who have a meaningful
◼
►
number of stock options or meaningful
◼
►
matter of compensation tied to the stock
◼
►
price and some other way and either that
◼
►
probably aren't a whole lot of people
◼
►
who have that situation but i don't know
◼
►
you know this could be a problem like if
◼
►
they start losing mid-level or even
◼
►
upper level VP's that could really be
◼
►
problematic and I feel like Apple
◼
►
they already have a problem retaining
◼
►
talent because from what I see I'm grant
◼
►
this is based on no research accept
◼
►
people like people I see and know and
◼
►
read about but it seems like you know
◼
►
Apple has created this awesome ecosystem
◼
►
especially with iOS someone with the mac
◼
►
but mostly with iOS is awesome software
◼
►
ecosystem and they have lost a lot of
◼
►
good people over the last few years who
◼
►
have gone out and done there on iOS
◼
►
startups and and that all that is
◼
►
probably a pretty big talent retention
◼
►
problem alone and so I I feel like if
◼
►
you add any factors to that if you add
◼
►
in things like options being worth a lot
◼
►
less than they were before that could be
◼
►
yeah and i don't i think it is a
◼
►
different I don't think Microsoft had
◼
►
this problem in Windows heyday because
◼
►
the success of windows created a
◼
►
inordinate number of programming jobs
◼
►
developer jobs but I don't think it
◼
►
created this sort of jobs where somebody
◼
►
could leave Apple and and either be
◼
►
guaranteed a lot of money or have the
◼
►
opportunity as like a founder to to make
◼
►
a lot of money it wasn't like a start-up
◼
►
types thing you know the the first real
◼
►
startup thing for developers was the web
◼
►
not windows right and the web it was
◼
►
hard to make money on the web so it
◼
►
wasn't quite as much of a gold rush
◼
►
mentality of oh my god i'm missing out
◼
►
on everything going on the web right now
◼
►
because i'm working for some big company
◼
►
right and it wasn't the sort of thing
◼
►
that step that that sprang completely
◼
►
from one company where writers this well
◼
►
I mean unsurprisingly there's an
◼
►
enormous well of iOS development talent
◼
►
in apple like people who are really good
◼
►
you would I OS now well just thinking
◼
►
about the friends that I that you know a
◼
►
lot of a mutual friend of mine in yours
◼
►
but friends we have who work there I
◼
►
mean they're they're you know they're a
◼
►
plus people and no surprise i'm sure
◼
►
that you know that that they're on the
◼
►
you know but probably dealing with those
◼
►
recruiter pitches and a regular basis
◼
►
you have a problem to with with
◼
►
retaining these people is if the growth
◼
►
is slowing down then Apple is going to
◼
►
lose some of its reputation of being a
◼
►
place where the cutting edge is
◼
►
happening and and that also like that
◼
►
that dampening of that even though i'm
◼
►
sure there are there are still a lot of
◼
►
you know exciting things to do an apple
◼
►
that's what that even a slight dampening
◼
►
and that is going to also amplify people
◼
►
desire to leave and go to eat or
◼
►
something more exciting or their own
◼
►
startup yeah and I do think that that is
◼
►
part of the appeal that Apple has for
◼
►
top-notch talent is sort of sense that
◼
►
this that's the show that's where the
◼
►
I you know that you're not really
◼
►
pushing yourself if you haven't
◼
►
tried taking a job at apple yet right
◼
►
and you know that's an exaggeration but
◼
►
that that spelling it out like that kind
◼
►
of sounds a little preposterous but i
◼
►
think that that's a a I don't know what
◼
►
you want to call it at an undercurrent
◼
►
in our industry that that people get you
◼
►
know that when you know when you're here
◼
►
because you know in addition to them to
◼
►
people from Apple leaving Apple to go to
◼
►
start you do we do know a lot of mutual
◼
►
friends who've been independent and then
◼
►
gone to apple you know you understand
◼
►
the draw of it is not entirely financial
◼
►
a lot of it is that all of a sudden
◼
►
you've got an opportunity to maybe do
◼
►
the best work of your life you know and
◼
►
certainly the work that might reach the
◼
►
most people or order to just have more
◼
►
control over what you do like an apple
◼
►
you might be working on you know some
◼
►
some feature of some little used app
◼
►
that you know if you if you want to be
◼
►
like a big product person and have your
◼
►
own control over what you do over I can
◼
►
make an entire app yourself or with one
◼
►
of the person some people and apple can
◼
►
do that most can't and even the ones
◼
►
that do you usually can't put their name
◼
►
on it right now nobody gets to put our
◼
►
name on it really right I was anybody is
◼
►
there anybody that with all the keynotes
◼
►
yeah but that's really the only at the
◼
►
exactly the handful of sand as he
◼
►
pleases yeah and even then I wondered
◼
►
because you know like there's a lot more
◼
►
executives than those who get to go on
◼
►
stage right it's a very short list
◼
►
I wonder though you know in the past it
◼
►
was always easy to pick which company
◼
►
was like the place that especially like
◼
►
programmers right out of college or you
◼
►
know people who who were really good and
◼
►
who would get noticed publicly and be
◼
►
you know be a Pope's by somebody like
◼
►
what was the company everyone wanted to
◼
►
work for so i think when I left college
◼
►
and 2004 sorry when I house colleagues
◼
►
in 2004 that company was google and it
◼
►
remained indisputably google for a while
◼
►
maybe until around 2009 even even maybe
◼
►
2010 and and then Google started getting
◼
►
big and boring and then I think Apple
◼
►
was that company starting around iphone
◼
►
time i think or maybe even a little bit
◼
►
before Apple became that company for a
◼
►
lot of people and it was never quite as
◼
►
prevalent in that role as Google was for
◼
►
so long but it certainly was there too
◼
►
to a large extent i wonder how much that
◼
►
is fading now but it seems like Google
◼
►
is not going upwards in that direction
◼
►
Google's still going downwards of you
◼
►
know being an interesting place for
◼
►
cutting-edge people to want to work so
◼
►
now though I don't really see a start-up
◼
►
in a facebook might have briefly had a
◼
►
little bit of that maybe two years ago
◼
►
but i don't really see what companies
◼
►
replacing that I think maybe what's
◼
►
replacing that is just doing your own
◼
►
startup for for this for this era you
◼
►
know maybe for this five-year period
◼
►
yeah i think so and I think Facebook's a
◼
►
good example where I mean and I add I'm
◼
►
probably really I'm qualified to speak
◼
►
about it because I've always found
◼
►
facebook distasteful I mean that still
◼
►
have never signed up for the thing but I
◼
►
I don't know that anybody you know let's
◼
►
say two years ago three years ago maybe
◼
►
when Facebook will head peak draw for
◼
►
talent i think it was entirely about the
◼
►
anticipation of them having a big IPO
◼
►
and that you could join even late in the
◼
►
game and make a lot of dough
◼
►
I not because boy they're putting out
◼
►
the best software in the world
◼
►
yeah I think you're right you know like
◼
►
nobody really thinks about it as great
◼
►
software you know even Microsoft because
◼
►
in the nineties it was always was
◼
►
definitely microsoft you know and
◼
►
Microsoft had a run on their stock
◼
►
throughout the nineties that was just
◼
►
tremendous I mean there's it was like a
◼
►
free no phrase microsoft millionaires
◼
►
you know that there were teams are or i
◼
►
guess it was almost you know it was like
◼
►
a weird social thing where that you'd be
◼
►
at Microsoft on a team of six people and
◼
►
to the people would be like like
◼
►
multi-millionaires because they've been
◼
►
there for three four five years and the
◼
►
other for people who maybe we're only
◼
►
there two years with nothing but their
◼
►
salary and options that had invested yet
◼
►
no but you are surrounded by people who
◼
►
were like not just ok if you add up my
◼
►
net worth yes it's a little bit over a
◼
►
million a millionaire but they were like
◼
►
millionaire millionaires and they just
◼
►
kept coming to work all because it was
◼
►
you know people got these options in the
◼
►
stock had just gone up up up every micro
◼
►
well I'm excited it's one of those
◼
►
things i always hear about and always
◼
►
think I should read that sometime and of
◼
►
course I probably never will
◼
►
I'm it's one of those books where I'm
◼
►
surprised I'm not in the same situation
◼
►
that it seems like type of book that
◼
►
would be on my wish I'd read it but
◼
►
haven't read but I did read it was it's
◼
►
very good i mean even split if you want
◼
►
well I don't you know I don't think i
◼
►
remember it quite well enough to spoil
◼
►
it but it's just it it it but it it
◼
►
captured that feeling know of you know
◼
►
you never knew who you were around who
◼
►
was you know had like a net worth of
◼
►
15-20 million dollars and was doing the
◼
►
exact same work as you was doing it for
◼
►
nothing but a salary of I don't you know
◼
►
ninety thousand dollars a year which was
◼
►
like you know a lot better in 1995 that
◼
►
oh yeah well and also a minute and
◼
►
that's always kind of been problematic
◼
►
and part a deeply-rooted part of the the
◼
►
modern computer worker culture is you
◼
►
know you eat a lot of people except
◼
►
pretty mediocre salaries on the promise
◼
►
of maybe striking it rich with options
◼
►
or something and and in practice that
◼
►
happens to so few programmers relative
◼
►
to how many jobs there are they're
◼
►
paying these terrible salaries promising
◼
►
the possibility of these things it's
◼
►
really kind of sad it's it's it's a lot
◼
►
like like the celebrity or entertainment
◼
►
business or even professional sports
◼
►
where you know people will tolerate
◼
►
pretty-pretty a ripoff conditions for a
◼
►
while with the hope of making a big and
◼
►
right right like minor league baseball
◼
►
being right famous example right like
◼
►
minor league baseball players most of
◼
►
them unless they've already there so
◼
►
talented like takin top and the draft
◼
►
and they've signed for a big bonus are
◼
►
making like hundreds of dollars a week
◼
►
maybe even in a month
◼
►
riding around on like school buses
◼
►
staying in college dorms
◼
►
you know all you know six months at a
◼
►
time and then going to you know get a
◼
►
day job for the other six months of the
◼
►
year i'm grown men you know
◼
►
thirty-year-old grown man who still hope
◼
►
to make it to the major leagues who are
◼
►
sleeping in college dorms for six months
◼
►
that's gotta be rough oh I think it's
◼
►
really rough sort of what makes minor
◼
►
league baseball so poetic though you
◼
►
know I the whole bull durham thing here
◼
►
let me throw this is something from my
◼
►
notes and this is about the apples to
◼
►
get back to the apple stock and it's not
◼
►
just the stock it's it's to me and I i
◼
►
talked about this with mulch last week
◼
►
where there's as different breed of
◼
►
Apple why don't you want to call them
◼
►
pessimist I don't use the word hater
◼
►
because I feel like hater is the
◼
►
opposite of fanboy and it's not
◼
►
but people who just I'm just gonna say
◼
►
people who don't like Apple and people
◼
►
you know or or or who they're looking
◼
►
for reasons to always not like Apple
◼
►
right cuz i mean that's like the real
◼
►
opposite of family and the family
◼
►
accusation is that is that you know
◼
►
whoever the accused of it will blindly
◼
►
try to support the thing that they've
◼
►
bought usually because it's something
◼
►
that you can't economically by both
◼
►
sides of so you gotta make a choice and
◼
►
you want to defend your choice and so
◼
►
you want to support that you know
◼
►
emotionally and psychologically some
◼
►
kind of that that convey a distance that
◼
►
there's some kind of term for that I
◼
►
yeah something and so I think that hater
◼
►
is the other end of its like it's
◼
►
somebody who who who has decided never
◼
►
to to support this thing never to buy
◼
►
this company's products and want to
◼
►
continually justify that position to
◼
►
themselves I I'd something like that and
◼
►
I think I got sidetracked on this point
◼
►
last week before i made it quite right
◼
►
which is that there's de tirely
◼
►
different breeds of people who let's say
◼
►
people who Apple drives crazy I mean and
◼
►
and and let's just say this take it to
◼
►
extremes one would be lets say like the
◼
►
open-source zealot with long hair and a
◼
►
beard and you know a developer who loves
◼
►
android because it's open really
◼
►
seize it and thinks it's just great that
◼
►
you can download it and you know really
◼
►
doesn't see it as a joke some of it is a
◼
►
little while but there's still no enough
◼
►
of it that's open and really really
◼
►
hates the whole app store thing and the
◼
►
fact that you you know they have to
◼
►
jailbreak the thing to sideload apps on
◼
►
it and you still can't jailbreak the
◼
►
iPhone 5 and blah blah blah that guy and
◼
►
compare and contrast with the guy who
◼
►
works on Wall Street and is 57 years old
◼
►
and wears a suit everyday I and really
◼
►
you know is more about the Apple the
◼
►
stock APPL the company you know and and
◼
►
it's a very different of those are two
◼
►
people who are never going to meet a
◼
►
very different reasons for not liking
◼
►
the company or being pessimistic about
◼
►
it or predicting its demise or whatever
◼
►
both driven nuts by the company and I I
◼
►
feel like a lot of them it's all come
◼
►
together in recent months though where
◼
►
that the media coverage I've seen of
◼
►
apple in the last two months has
◼
►
consistently presented apples smartphone
◼
►
sales in a way that I think makes it
◼
►
look as though Samsung is already
◼
►
outselling them and and it's not true at
◼
►
the high end you know into the galaxy
◼
►
note in the galaxy tab right they say
◼
►
increased competition from the galaxy
◼
►
tab and that apple's share of the
◼
►
smartphone's has dropped from 23% in
◼
►
nineteen percent and Samsung has gone up
◼
►
to thirty one percent and then anyway I
◼
►
think my dad I always think my dad my
◼
►
dad read that article what would he
◼
►
think he would say well that's this
◼
►
samsung galaxy tab is outselling the
◼
►
iphone by a good margin and that's not
◼
►
apple sold more iphone 5 in like the
◼
►
first three or two months than apple and
◼
►
then samsung sold galaxy tab threes in I
◼
►
forget how much longer it's been on the
◼
►
market you know it's not even close
◼
►
so here's what I think is going on in
◼
►
some extent I think that there's a lot
◼
►
of writers analysts blogger zealots and
◼
►
in some sense investors to who have been
◼
►
waiting and waiting four years for Apple
◼
►
to fall for whatever reason whatever
◼
►
their hobby horse reason of of what's
◼
►
why apple's doing it wrong and why
◼
►
they're lucky they have been waiting for
◼
►
Apple to fall and they've grown so
◼
►
impatient because it hasn't happened
◼
►
that they've just gone ahead and claim
◼
►
right or like they are they amplify any
◼
►
sign that it might be happening in some
◼
►
point in the future I think there's an
◼
►
awful lot of them who are claiming that
◼
►
right i mean I'm i see it on Twitter
◼
►
like with the reaction to my sort of
◼
►
incredulous that Apple apples results
◼
►
yesterday should you know would result
◼
►
in a massive massive dumping of the
◼
►
stock again I think the stocks actually
◼
►
going to lower since the point where
◼
►
somebody tweeted it but somebody worked
◼
►
it out that the amount of money that
◼
►
apple's market cap dropped after hours
◼
►
just in like two hours and after our
◼
►
training after the result was equal to 2
◼
►
Nokia's plus 2 rims have any i think it
◼
►
has gone down further since and it's
◼
►
gone down further since that Apple has
◼
►
lost the entirety of two rims and to
◼
►
Nokia's i think a lot of this attitude
◼
►
like I i wrote this thing come let's go
◼
►
for the magazine is published this week
◼
►
called anti-apple anger and and you know
◼
►
my theory is that a lot of people really
◼
►
resent Apple you know like i like i
◼
►
choose not to buy samsung phones but i
◼
►
don't really have any feelings towards
◼
►
samsung I just don't really I don't
◼
►
really think I really care about them
◼
►
I'm and pretty much in different but a
◼
►
lot of people who choose not to buy
◼
►
apple stuff really get worked up about
◼
►
it and I think one of the reasons why is
◼
►
because apple products say no a lot in
◼
►
the in the design choices they make and
◼
►
in the in the features they omit and the
◼
►
implementation of the features they have
◼
►
they say no a lot and they say no in an
◼
►
opinionated way and and kind of like a
◼
►
at least in people's minds like a Steve
◼
►
Jobs arrogance way of like okay the
◼
►
iphone doesn't have a keyboard because
◼
►
nobody should ever need a keyboard
◼
►
that's the wrong way to do it and if you
◼
►
tough luck you're wrong you know it's
◼
►
that kind of attitude and and so that
◼
►
that really turns a lot of people off
◼
►
and you know kind of like well you know
◼
►
here's here's what we offer we may be
◼
►
made the thing that we think is bad
◼
►
just if your needs are different you're
◼
►
somehow wrong or inferior and if you
◼
►
don't like it there's the door
◼
►
you know so it does make a lot of
◼
►
enemies and so that's why i feel like
◼
►
the people who choose not to buy Apple a
◼
►
lot of times they have chosen not to buy
◼
►
Apple because they either want something
◼
►
Apple as an offer or they do
◼
►
legitimately need something that apple
◼
►
stuff can't address for them and and
◼
►
that attitude has made them actually
◼
►
angry that Apple like doesn't want their
◼
►
money or won't take their business or
◼
►
won't make something that satisfies them
◼
►
so it generates level of anger that
◼
►
seems stronger than then what a lot of
◼
►
companies get for just not serving a
◼
►
market and I think it does have to do
◼
►
with that attitude that I think Steve
◼
►
Jobs showed publicly and that Apple is
◼
►
kind of now it's kind of become their
◼
►
reputation of having this attitude even
◼
►
even people there now don't actually
◼
►
express it this way but this attitude of
◼
►
well you know this is whatyou this is
◼
►
all you should ever need and if you if
◼
►
your needs are different than you know
◼
►
you're wrong right well I like your
◼
►
there's the door because that's the
◼
►
other thing is that they don't rather
◼
►
than just take the door and go by the
◼
►
other companies product and say okay
◼
►
they don't take the door they stay in
◼
►
yeah well and you know a lot of times we
◼
►
get if you really believe like if
◼
►
Apple's saying no one ever needs a
◼
►
keyboard and you're like well but i like
◼
►
keyboards you know then there's like
◼
►
this this motivation people say wait
◼
►
know when something's wrong here you
◼
►
people are all sheep you're brainwashed
◼
►
your faithful whatever you know all
◼
►
these terms that mean you're being
◼
►
irrational devoted you know that they
◼
►
want to discredit you guys like know
◼
►
that that's factually wrong in my head
◼
►
so obviously something's wrong with all
◼
►
of you people for buying this and for
◼
►
saying it's so great i like this guy
◼
►
link to this week he said here's the
◼
►
things Apple needs to do and one of them
◼
►
is making I now our lease announced
◼
►
during the earnings call they should
◼
►
announce that we're gonna make an iphone
◼
►
with a hardware keyboard I
◼
►
and he rides your correspondent does not
◼
►
have an iphone i probably wouldn't own
◼
►
one anyway but I'm precluded from even
◼
►
considering one because they do not come
◼
►
with the real physical keyboard right
◼
►
and i have saggy and I absolutely must
◼
►
have one so i love this guy I love him
◼
►
because he's still hung up on this 2007
◼
►
complained of that Apple needs to not
◼
►
should but needs to make an iphone with
◼
►
a hardware keyboard and then I just love
◼
►
it I love the bonus-point his business
◼
►
whatever but that he probably wouldn't
◼
►
own one anyway that they must do it
◼
►
because he can't buy one without one but
◼
►
he still wouldn't buy one man's about
◼
►
yeah that is pretty good
◼
►
that to me is is really really good i
◼
►
also saw the along similar lines i saw
◼
►
some because one good way to get a lot
◼
►
of clicks and it's one of those things
◼
►
and you wrote about this recently but
◼
►
don't link to jerks and it's a fine line
◼
►
you know be trying to give you an
◼
►
exceptional you're still allowed to I
◼
►
just don't want yeah but it's a fine
◼
►
line for everybody and it is where it's
◼
►
a weird thing for me because my site has
◼
►
gotten so popular and i don't really i
◼
►
tend I think for the I think it's good
◼
►
that i still see it the same way I used
◼
►
and I think if there's any sort of
◼
►
consistency as it's gotten more
◼
►
successful it's because to me in my mind
◼
►
it it isn't that much but i don't i
◼
►
don't see the people reading the site i
◼
►
see the same screen that I saw before
◼
►
but i do know in the back of my head
◼
►
that there's so many more people reading
◼
►
and so I am a little bit less likely and
◼
►
me one of those things that people write
◼
►
just to get the clicks just together it
◼
►
is the i'm switching from iphone to
◼
►
android and here's why
◼
►
you know I loved my iphone four years
◼
►
but now i'm switching to android and
◼
►
there was one last week i think it was a
◼
►
guy get home and I almost link to I had
◼
►
it written up I don't do I very seldom
◼
►
write up a post or even a link and then
◼
►
stare at it and have it all ready to go
◼
►
just like one click from publish and
◼
►
then scrapped it very very seldom but i
◼
►
did it with this one because I just said
◼
►
you know what this guy was just angling
◼
►
for this you know because it wasn't even
◼
►
here's why I did switch its here's why
◼
►
I'm going to switch which is not even
◼
►
worth right because i really got the
◼
►
feeling like he wasn't gonna do it
◼
►
anyway but anyway the thing that i found
◼
►
was that he had like it was only
◼
►
separated by one paragraph it was like 7
◼
►
paragraph in was that I all he'd a lot
◼
►
of his action now on his iphone is in
◼
►
these apps from Google and he uses you
◼
►
know the gmail app for his email and
◼
►
google maps for maps instead of apple
◼
►
maps and I had like two or three other
◼
►
examples and a lot of people have been
◼
►
writing about this that trend lately to
◼
►
that people replacing apples built-in
◼
►
apps with third-party apps and this is
◼
►
somehow bad for Apple then another
◼
►
paragraph and in the next paragraph was
◼
►
that apple's app store apple is too
◼
►
closed and doesn't let you replace stuff
◼
►
you know two paragraphs before he said
◼
►
the reason he switched thing about and
◼
►
think about switching the android is
◼
►
that he's replaced all of his built-in
◼
►
apps plus they don't a lot of people say
◼
►
that the google apps are actually better
◼
►
on iOS and their android after all a lot
◼
►
of people do and I had something I want
◼
►
to write about soon on daring fireball I
◼
►
want to do it as I got this in draft
◼
►
follow-up to my thing last week about
◼
►
that UI design trends and that to me
◼
►
it's very notable that google is often
◼
►
hailed at being as being having these
◼
►
really nice iOS apps and that are in
◼
►
this sort of knew less textured sort of
◼
►
planar design style and trying to avoid
◼
►
a rectangles I'm trying to avoid all
◼
►
kind really trying to avoid the word
◼
►
skeuomorphic and flat because i think
◼
►
but I I not because and overused but
◼
►
because i think that they're there
◼
►
they're both wrong the wrong words and I
◼
►
really kind of read i wish i hadn't used
◼
►
that one word in the title of last
◼
►
week's piece but that'll be for my
◼
►
follow-up but anyway it is absolutely
◼
►
the case though without any argument
◼
►
that Google's iOS apps don't look like
◼
►
android apps at all and I think that's
◼
►
really interesting because go back at
◼
►
and I liked by the nineties the knock
◼
►
against all of Microsoft's mac apps was
◼
►
that they all look like the windows apps
◼
►
like you know all the office apps look
◼
►
like Windows obvious they didn't have a
◼
►
Windows user from the time i hated
◼
►
quicktime because it looked like it
◼
►
didn't belong on windows where I
◼
►
couldn't absolutely see the argument you
◼
►
know I mean I think that's why I'm out i
◼
►
think it's apt I think it's still even
◼
►
in more recent years i think it's
◼
►
clearly why safari for windows never got
◼
►
any traction whatsoever whereas chrome
◼
►
for windows using the same rendering
◼
►
engine you know took off like a rocket
◼
►
I feel like I'm sorry finish that well I
◼
►
just think that that's to me it's
◼
►
fascinating that google has is doing I
◼
►
think much better UI design work and in
◼
►
all senses of the word aesthetically in
◼
►
terms of being aesthetically pleasing
◼
►
and in terms of usability on iOS that on
◼
►
Android well and I think part of that is
◼
►
that the environment is you know like
◼
►
you try to rise to the level of your
◼
►
environment that urine and on iOS like
◼
►
if they really something really hideous
◼
►
that probably do very well in iOS
◼
►
because the standards are are generally
◼
►
pretty high for you I stuff
◼
►
yeah and my understanding is I don't
◼
►
know a lot of people who work at Google
◼
►
on iOS stuff but I know a few but my
◼
►
sense is though that that that's what
◼
►
they do that if you work on iOS stuff
◼
►
you're an iOS engineer at Google it's
◼
►
not just that you're on Team acts and
◼
►
the same people writing android apps are
◼
►
writing iOS apps and they're trying to
◼
►
square the circle by using some sort of
◼
►
cross-platform things that they cannot
◼
►
write once and do it all and you know
◼
►
make them both just webviews so they can
◼
►
just write once and ship both know
◼
►
they've got like real iOS developers who
◼
►
know and love the platform right i think
◼
►
they're even advertising recently wasn't
◼
►
everything when they were advertising
◼
►
recently that they you know that if
◼
►
you're a great iOS developer you come
◼
►
work at Google and change the world or
◼
►
something like that no i don't know i
◼
►
don't let me do a sponsor break
◼
►
yeah let's take the take the first break
◼
►
here and I want to thank our first
◼
►
sponsor you've probably heard of them
◼
►
Squarespace is doing great work they
◼
►
have a great new product on its a
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domain name they handle all the hosting
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and they have 24-hour customer support
◼
►
and we take a break in the middle of
◼
►
this sponsor me tell you something
◼
►
happen to me John Gruber last night
◼
►
ready to go to bed like midnight wasn't
◼
►
going to go to bed is gonna watch a
◼
►
movie or somebody's ready to walk away
◼
►
from keyboard and I went to check my
◼
►
stats just one more time before I went
◼
►
to bed and and I wouldn't love it at all
◼
►
I went to go to daring fireball dotnet
◼
►
and it just spun wasn't completely dead
◼
►
but the little progress bar what about
◼
►
two inches and just stopped almost never
◼
►
happens to me right website is you
◼
►
generally really really solid I long
◼
►
story short i logged in i restarted
◼
►
apache students didn't solve it I
◼
►
noticed that there were way too many
◼
►
Apache processes running I thought maybe
◼
►
I was getting somebody even way more
◼
►
popular than me had fireball my sight
◼
►
when I would be why there's so many
◼
►
things i don't know i couldn't figure
◼
►
out why there were so many Apache
◼
►
processes can figure it out
◼
►
restarted apache didn't help restarted
◼
►
the whole server didn't help
◼
►
can I take a guess what was it you run
◼
►
meant stats on your server right I do
◼
►
my guess is that all those Apache
◼
►
instances were a whole bunch of mint
◼
►
processes waiting for the connection of
◼
►
the database and the database itself was
◼
►
exactamundo my god Marco Arment that's
◼
►
why they pay you the big bucks
◼
►
I kind of have some background assorted
◼
►
I have a second server that runs mysql
◼
►
and mysql does two things for me is my
◼
►
movable-type installation that's where
◼
►
the data store is for it and meant
◼
►
rights to it and so exactly what you're
◼
►
saying is happening is every time
◼
►
someone would load the page the actual
◼
►
web server during far ball is up but
◼
►
every single Apache process would then
◼
►
be like waiting for the mysql server to
◼
►
to it and say okay I took that hit for
◼
►
you from mint and then as soon as i
◼
►
restarted the mysql server everything
◼
►
was hunky-dory back to normal
◼
►
here's the thing how many normal people
◼
►
can do what I just did I i have a
◼
►
demonic assistant man but i do have a
◼
►
degree in computer science I did work
◼
►
professionally as a web developer before
◼
►
how many people at midnight on wednesday
◼
►
night and can troubleshoot something
◼
►
I wish you were around your party could
◼
►
have saved me 15 minutes and it would
◼
►
have been started sooner
◼
►
here's the thing you go to squarespace
◼
►
instead you don't have to worry about
◼
►
that they've got 24 hour support their
◼
►
analytics are built in probably don't
◼
►
block on the mysql server and they
◼
►
handle the hosting for you and then I
◼
►
mentioned that they have 24-hour
◼
►
customer support everything on our
◼
►
platform its drag-and-drop right so
◼
►
you're not sitting there you don't have
◼
►
to sit there and write code to make your
◼
►
website design your blog they have a
◼
►
tremendous front end where you can
◼
►
design this stuff and put little widgets
◼
►
you know put the elements you want on
◼
►
the page in the templates where you want
◼
►
them by drag-and-drop you can drag
◼
►
pictures straight from your desktop take
◼
►
a picture is on your desktop drag it
◼
►
right into the web browser and create
◼
►
custom layout put the picture in there
◼
►
just by drag-and-drop you don't have to
◼
►
write image tags and source and all that
◼
►
stuff i mean you could if you wanted to
◼
►
you can customize this stuff if you do
◼
►
know how to do write code but you don't
◼
►
have to all the templates are
◼
►
customizable so you don't have to just
◼
►
pick between their pre-existing
◼
►
templates you can customize it tweaked
◼
►
it a little bit or make your own thing
◼
►
right from the start if that's what you
◼
►
it's really really great stuff you can
◼
►
switch from one template to another at
◼
►
any time you don't have to pick all
◼
►
right at the beginning and then you're
◼
►
locked in because all your content is
◼
►
like hard formatted in the template one
◼
►
more thing they do that I still don't
◼
►
even do is that all their built-in
◼
►
templates scale automatically have
◼
►
perfectly fit iPad iPhone your computer
◼
►
your 27-inch imac whatever it is you
◼
►
know what you want to call a responsive
◼
►
design they've got it I don't even have
◼
►
that yet I'm still behind the eight ball
◼
►
on that I'm you can pull contacts push
◼
►
content from your blog's to Twitter
◼
►
Facebook stuff like that you can pull
◼
►
content from your twitter you can have
◼
►
your tweets show up automatically on
◼
►
your Squarespace site great great stuff
◼
►
and it's really easy you can learn it
◼
►
just by looking at it here's what you do
◼
►
go to squarespace.com / the talkshow
◼
►
squarespace.com / the talk show that no
◼
►
no you're coming here from the show
◼
►
start a free trial don't even need a
◼
►
credit card just start the free trial if
◼
►
you decide to purchase if you like it
◼
►
then when you go you just enter enter
◼
►
offer code below the pricing thing at
◼
►
checkout and the offer code is the
◼
►
talkshow one that's the talk show and
◼
►
then the digit 1 and you'll get a
◼
►
10-percent discount squarespace.com /
◼
►
the talk show when you're ready to sign
◼
►
up and pay use the offer code the
◼
►
talkshow one my thanks to squarespace
◼
►
whatever it's worth I I even though i
◼
►
can log into a server and figure out
◼
►
problems like that last week launched a
◼
►
new podcast and I wanted to build a
◼
►
website for it and the last thing I
◼
►
wanted to do was spend a whole lot of
◼
►
time and effort making a website for a
◼
►
podcast that might only have a few
◼
►
episodes and I know that's like the last
◼
►
thing you want to worry about so i went
◼
►
to squarespace and that dated they did
◼
►
end up sponsoring it so it's a little
◼
►
bit of a disclosure there but I i went
◼
►
to host it there before i got them to
◼
►
sponsor it and you know because i went
◼
►
there because i didn't even though i can
◼
►
do all that stuff I don't want to mess
◼
►
with that one isn't necessary and and it
◼
►
was great i really have no complaints i
◼
►
hope the entire podcast there including
◼
►
amazingly they allow you to do that I
◼
►
i'm very happy with that I they've built
◼
►
out an incredible you know it if you're
◼
►
thinking you know I don't know I used to
◼
►
think of Squarespace is like a not that
◼
►
it was bad but I used in the back of my
◼
►
head I thought of it is a fill in the
◼
►
blank template thing where you got
◼
►
templates and you can fill them in and
◼
►
then you have a template back website
◼
►
and it is so much more than that it
◼
►
really is it's a really great system
◼
►
that they built now and I feel like you
◼
►
know the days of like hosting your own
◼
►
wordpress I i think our are long over
◼
►
most everybody you know if you have a
◼
►
lot of customization or special needs
◼
►
maybe you might want to look at that
◼
►
sort of stuff but like the the days of
◼
►
hosting your own blog especially
◼
►
maintaining its software i think are
◼
►
yeah i think so too you know what I had
◼
►
to do last week and again it is a sort
◼
►
of just coincidental that it all
◼
►
happened last week I had to actually
◼
►
patch movable-type because of a an
◼
►
exploit I'm kind of surprised you still
◼
►
can patch your copy given how much
◼
►
I you know what though I haven't
◼
►
modified you know it's abstracted enough
◼
►
for my hacks are plugins and they have a
◼
►
pretty decent plug-in API that that knew
◼
►
that the isolates the plug-in code and
◼
►
most of my really weird hacks are
◼
►
outside movable-type it is taking
◼
►
because movable-type is a static site
◼
►
generator at least the way i use it it's
◼
►
taking those static files and doing
◼
►
weird things with them outside
◼
►
movable-type ah ok and that stuff is
◼
►
irrelevant as long as movable-type still
◼
►
spits out valid RSS or atom feeds
◼
►
install my hacks on top of that stole
◼
►
are there still any people who like
◼
►
fight for 14 over the other like if
◼
►
they're like no Adam is superior to RSS
◼
►
no RSS is simpler now i don't think so i
◼
►
think that that whole thing I think
◼
►
we're all pretending that didn't happen
◼
►
because like next EML yeah i think so
◼
►
although i'm not sure i would be
◼
►
interesting to hear from someone with a
◼
►
an aggregator which is more popular RSS
◼
►
2 or Adam well google reader kind of
◼
►
threw the the balance pretty hard
◼
►
towards Adam because google reader any
◼
►
feed that they suck in they convert to
◼
►
Adam for all the output
◼
►
mmm i think that that at least was the
◼
►
case i don't know if it's still I think
◼
►
it still is I did not know that although
◼
►
does it does anybody care though if
◼
►
they'd handle it for you and there's us
◼
►
the sort of thing google is so good at
◼
►
that if yours if you are emitting rss2
◼
►
but everybody's reading your site
◼
►
through google reader is seeing Google's
◼
►
Adam translation of it i'll bet it's
◼
►
very high fidelity is really matter now
◼
►
I think I'm not even a hundred percent
◼
►
sure and I free i actually even forget
◼
►
why i made that choice i mean i have to
◼
►
actually sure it made sense like in 2003
◼
►
when we were hot argument but it's there
◼
►
was something about the actual syntax of
◼
►
it that i like better
◼
►
yeah i mean it has some things that it
◼
►
had some like more more precise
◼
►
definitions for certain elements like
◼
►
you know publisher and author updated
◼
►
with stuff like that like RSS is a
◼
►
little bit more liberal i think but
◼
►
before they're really close yeah well
◼
►
he's only known me it's hey I'm sure
◼
►
there's gonna be like three people who
◼
►
are still fighting this fight for
◼
►
polygamy is no you're wrong about
◼
►
everything i am i'm i'm i'm embarrassed
◼
►
i love how much time I spent the
◼
►
following that whole saga and how
◼
►
invested i got in it really wanted some
◼
►
voices the time but I it was you know
◼
►
that what is it that something something
◼
►
of small differences like I don't know
◼
►
in hindsight I cannot think of to tech
◼
►
to formats that were are so much the
◼
►
very same thing and so similar in a way
◼
►
they do because it wasn't even like a
◼
►
major you know like here's something
◼
►
that would have been a huge difference
◼
►
in their boat xml yeah if one was xml
◼
►
and the other one was json well there
◼
►
you've got a really interesting
◼
►
fundamental difference between the right
◼
►
like if one of them was was like binary
◼
►
or if one of them was more like pub/sub
◼
►
like you know push oriented right but
◼
►
they were both XML I think if you like
◼
►
cut off the top couple of lines like at
◼
►
the right below that that what's it
◼
►
called the the preamble yeah well the
◼
►
one with the question marks what's that
◼
►
called that's the xml preamble right
◼
►
with you know cut off the next two lines
◼
►
or something like that I think it would
◼
►
be really hard to even tell it an
◼
►
eyeball which one was adamant we can
◼
►
start assess to it was really close and
◼
►
a minute way more and more namespace
◼
►
prefix and colons and the other document
◼
►
this is a type of thing where and I i
◼
►
always forget to do the follow-up but
◼
►
this is the sort of thing where talk to
◼
►
listeners are really really good work
◼
►
collectively there's somebody out there
◼
►
who remembers all the nitty-gritty
◼
►
details of the differences i think in
◼
►
look at during fireballs are I i still
◼
►
call it an RSS feed but it's in the atom
◼
►
format i think the reason i like to add
◼
►
more than rss2 was the date format that
◼
►
are our Adam used what to me was a very
◼
►
same date format i forget which one it
◼
►
is but it's one of the iso ones and it
◼
►
goes year month numbered a number and
◼
►
then greenwich mean time all on a string
◼
►
and i think i could be wrong but I think
◼
►
rss2 used like a crazy sort of more
◼
►
plain text our date format i don't i
◼
►
don't think that's true better when I
◼
►
grow up I want to look it up now I don't
◼
►
look at this point but maybe somebody
◼
►
can shoot me an email if i'm wrong about
◼
►
that i thought that the date format
◼
►
maybe it was the permalinks maybe there
◼
►
was something that the permalinks I
◼
►
thought looked better in the atom
◼
►
I don't know somehow I got caught up in
◼
►
cared so you have a new podcast let's
◼
►
yeah you had called neutral it's a
◼
►
neutral dot FM and it's a me Casey list
◼
►
and John siracusa basically sitting
◼
►
around BS thing about cars
◼
►
I just notice and you must have done
◼
►
this right before we got on the air
◼
►
because I see episode two is up
◼
►
yeah put it up earlier this afternoon on
◼
►
ya episode two is up and it's we
◼
►
actually episode 12 recorded
◼
►
back-to-back that the first time we were
◼
►
recording I said alright let's just keep
◼
►
going we were on such a roll but we
◼
►
didn't want to release a two-hour-long
◼
►
first episode so so those are so there's
◼
►
no follow-up whatsoever because gonna
◼
►
drive people crazy who who are still
◼
►
upset the handful of things we got wrong
◼
►
but yeah and we used to episode 3 last
◼
►
night i'll be posting that probably a
◼
►
mid next week it's a lot of fun you know
◼
►
it's not one of the reasons why we call
◼
►
it neutral it is kind of to be
◼
►
understanding you know every other car
◼
►
podcast it's all about like car news and
◼
►
horsepower and racing and and all this
◼
►
stuff and they all have these like he's
◼
►
like masculine explosive names and
◼
►
horsepower speed rocket and it's like we
◼
►
just want let's let's colors neutral and
◼
►
just have it be like this this you know
◼
►
simple black-and-white site this simple
◼
►
logo that does not contain anything on
◼
►
and and just just three guys chillin out
◼
►
talking about casual cars and you know
◼
►
we're talking about like honda accord
◼
►
that we've owned in the past not not you
◼
►
know the newest you know crazy
◼
►
bugatti veyron that was really starting
◼
►
like the head and it's just fun it's a
◼
►
it's a fun casual show if you know a lot
◼
►
about cars and and you come to it
◼
►
expecting like like high-end car
◼
►
you're probably going to be infuriated
◼
►
at how much we not only don't talk about
◼
►
that but how much we get wrong about
◼
►
some of the technical details what we do
◼
►
talk about but it's it's really for
◼
►
casual car fans especially people who
◼
►
are already like fans of us in general
◼
►
just wanted to hear a skill out and talk
◼
►
for a while that that's sort of the car
◼
►
equivalent of the sports thing that
◼
►
Montero started that I was in last year
◼
►
the american McCarver right which is
◼
►
sort of gone ice cold it's sort of
◼
►
fizzled out but the basic idea was to do
◼
►
a sports site for non sports fanatics or
◼
►
all sports fans which is sort of
◼
►
underserved right like you go most
◼
►
sports sites are for people who like eat
◼
►
sleep and you know and and maybe that's
◼
►
just the natural order of things that
◼
►
most tech sites are for people who are
◼
►
that's their main obsession seems like
◼
►
that's the same sort of thing where
◼
►
you're really interested in cars but
◼
►
it's not your main thing nobody's ever
◼
►
say marcos main thing is cars because
◼
►
and that's hot that's how I am I like
◼
►
cars a lot but I don't listen to any car
◼
►
podcasts I don't subscribe to any car
◼
►
I you know I I like I like cars a lot
◼
►
but I don't care quite that much to
◼
►
follow every single detail of the news
◼
►
every week and and really care about all
◼
►
these high-end things I'll never even
◼
►
see syracuse it does a lot of podcasts
◼
►
he does yeah hey i'm i'm i'm amazing how
◼
►
much he does because he has a job and a
◼
►
family like you know we have families we
◼
►
don't really have real job so it's a
◼
►
little bit easier for us to wedge the
◼
►
stuff in I don't know how he does
◼
►
I don't either and the other thing that
◼
►
I find interesting about his podcast
◼
►
what's the word is a proclivity well the
◼
►
energy output is that prior to getting
◼
►
into podcasting on a regular basis he
◼
►
wrote so sporadically he'd write and
◼
►
massive right delicious feasts but never
◼
►
really gave you snacks on a regular
◼
►
basis and i swear this time come from
◼
►
I just assumed it was the fact that he
◼
►
didn't have time as he had a full-time
◼
►
job in that he's so meticulous and
◼
►
thinks things through that it it wasn't
◼
►
possible whereas you know like I didn't
◼
►
even when I did have a real job found it
◼
►
possible to write keep daring fireball
◼
►
going weakly in between the time i had
◼
►
around a real job whereas he seems to
◼
►
find us you know the time to do these
◼
►
podcasts that's something I've i find it
◼
►
exhausting i find it exhausting but i
◼
►
find it i find doing one show a week to
◼
►
be like I cannot believe it's time for
◼
►
the show again because i feel like i
◼
►
just did last week show yesterday right
◼
►
yeah and doing doing any more than one
◼
►
show week I I don't think I can ever do
◼
►
that like I don't know like I had my
◼
►
show and I ended that in december and I
◼
►
wanted to do a car show and I don't you
◼
►
know we we've been saying this might be
◼
►
a limited-run you know we might only do
◼
►
like eight episodes we don't really know
◼
►
yet we're gonna see what happens when
◼
►
that time comes but you know I i also
◼
►
felt like you know what if i want to do
◼
►
some other topic in the future and I
◼
►
don't think I would ever run them in
◼
►
parallel the workload would just be
◼
►
insane but I mean and one thing that
◼
►
helps with with with John siracusa is
◼
►
you know with his show hypercritical
◼
►
that he also ended in december that man
◼
►
i love that show that was my favorite
◼
►
podcast when when he and hypocritical
◼
►
one of the things he said was that he
◼
►
was just spending hours researching for
◼
►
every show beforehand and like when i
◼
►
was doing building analyze I would
◼
►
research before you show for maybe 45
◼
►
minutes and most that was going to the
◼
►
feedback email and deciding what to talk
◼
►
about like I couldn't even imagine
◼
►
finding the time every week to do hours
◼
►
of Syracuse little research
◼
►
so knowing that he was that he was prone
◼
►
to doing way more work than he might
◼
►
necessarily need to for our car show
◼
►
Casey and I are arranged all the topics
◼
►
and we don't tell Jon we don't tell them
◼
►
anything in advance so what were too big
◼
►
because we intentionally keep it from
◼
►
him so that he can't overworked himself
◼
►
he can't possibly go research anything
◼
►
so if we say something if especially if
◼
►
he says something that's technically
◼
►
incorrect give me to take it easy on
◼
►
sweet we are intentionally keeping him
◼
►
in the dark until the very last minute
◼
►
and I had mixed feelings about the
◼
►
weather because it was I do think it was
◼
►
late and run of hypercritical where he
◼
►
kind of opened up about how much
◼
►
preparation he did per episode that he
◼
►
kept it secret before but I don't call
◼
►
him having talked about it and I also
◼
►
feel like maybe the longer they did the
◼
►
show and the the better that ten and
◼
►
John got it doing it the more research
◼
►
he did because that's what he knew made
◼
►
for a good episode of hypercritical
◼
►
right that it wasn't that it got easier
◼
►
and he had to do less work / show it was
◼
►
that he knew what made for a good
◼
►
episode and that involved a lot more a
◼
►
lot of research but I had mixed feelings
◼
►
about because I felt bad on the one hand
◼
►
doing a massive amount of work for it
◼
►
but on the other hand I felt good
◼
►
because i thought well thank God that
◼
►
he's not just winging it and having the
◼
►
show come off so incredibly articulate
◼
►
and meticulous records every one of
◼
►
those shows was like one of his giant
◼
►
articles and it and its really
◼
►
remarkable how policy was able to make
◼
►
those shows with only a few hours of
◼
►
prep for each one but I mean that was
◼
►
the amount of work you put into that was
◼
►
insane but the output was also amazing
◼
►
it's absolutely agree with everyone
◼
►
one thing I've thought about with
◼
►
podcasts and I don't know maybe they're
◼
►
a there's so many podcasts and that's
◼
►
great it's a great thing but you kids
◼
►
can keep up with them but I maybe
◼
►
somebody's doing it but I feel like
◼
►
maybe in terms of like the work and the
◼
►
relentlessness or the I don't want to
◼
►
call it of doing it every week I feel
◼
►
like you do have to do it every week or
◼
►
have some sort of schedule without a
◼
►
schedule it just doesn't work and weekly
◼
►
is pretty natural schedule but I've
◼
►
often wondered maybe maybe one format to
◼
►
do for a let's say something like
◼
►
neutral which isn't meant to be like any
◼
►
of your primary gigs where you guys are
◼
►
just uses said maybe it'll only be an
◼
►
what about following that the episodic
◼
►
TV model of having like seasons where
◼
►
you're going to do eight shows you plan
◼
►
it that like you're going to say January
◼
►
in February we're going to do eight
◼
►
shows one a week for eight weeks and
◼
►
then we're going to take a break and
◼
►
then we're going to come back and we'll
◼
►
do another eight show run when we feel
◼
►
like we're ready for it
◼
►
I feel like that might work in a way
◼
►
that will just do a show whenever we're
◼
►
not going to do one every week maybe
◼
►
we're only going to do 20 per year but
◼
►
will do them at random you know whenever
◼
►
we feel like randomly we can get
◼
►
together I feel like that never works
◼
►
falls apart because that becomes all do
◼
►
it sometime soon we'll do it next week
◼
►
we'll do it next month and then then the
◼
►
show six months that an episode right
◼
►
and I also feel like it might help in
◼
►
the same way that it works for TV shows
◼
►
to keep people the audience engaged is
◼
►
ok then you can do with just a little
◼
►
bit of promotion upfront a week or two
◼
►
in advance to make sure everybody knows
◼
►
back and then people can get into it and
◼
►
sort of be ready for the fact if they're
◼
►
fans of it that'll be one of the show's
◼
►
they'll have queued up on their phone to
◼
►
listen to in the car in a way to work
◼
►
for her two months you know but that you
◼
►
can't think it might be it might be
◼
►
better to just do like every two weeks
◼
►
and just constantly rather than take
◼
►
these big break so that I feel like the
◼
►
big breaks but also have a very high
◼
►
chance of just extending themselves and
◼
►
the coming years and then you forget
◼
►
about the show dissolves yeah I whereas
◼
►
it like if and I think as a podcast
◼
►
listener listen to podcast all the time
◼
►
and you know in the car washing dishes
◼
►
whatever and walking the dog
◼
►
listen a lot of podcast but there are
◼
►
more podcasts most of the time I that
◼
►
come out every week then what I have
◼
►
time to listen to and I think that's
◼
►
probably true for a lot of people it's
◼
►
an annulus and so you know I wouldn't
◼
►
mind if some of my favorite shows went
◼
►
to every two weeks instead it's like I'm
◼
►
not the kind of guy to want to skip an
◼
►
episode like if a show that I listened
◼
►
to if it comes out I'm gonna listen to
◼
►
it and if I can't keep up with the show
◼
►
i'll just delete it i won't listen to i
◼
►
won't subscribe to it all good rather
◼
►
not hear any of it then only listened to
◼
►
every other episode and maybe that's
◼
►
just what I'm weird i'm a nerd but
◼
►
that's how I work so you know if if they
◼
►
were more shows that weren't weekly but
◼
►
we're still regular I'd be fine with
◼
►
that you will catch up on Twitter person
◼
►
you know I honestly I used to be and I
◼
►
took up so much time on my data in the
◼
►
last few months basically everything
◼
►
started the magazine when my workload
◼
►
has increased substantially ever since
◼
►
starting the magazine I i became a
◼
►
scroll to top for the main timeline
◼
►
person I still read all my @ replies but
◼
►
but I I can't read the meantime on
◼
►
yeah that's how I I but I've been like
◼
►
that for a long time and I've usually a
◼
►
completist although i don't actually
◼
►
read my email it's like a like a debt in
◼
►
the backline I theoretically would read
◼
►
it all but I I never get around to it
◼
►
but I never do the mark as read i keep
◼
►
marked unread whereas Twitter I've never
◼
►
minded the fact that i don't see them
◼
►
all because you know because Twitter
◼
►
your timeline isn't everything that's
◼
►
directed at you specifically so you
◼
►
don't feel like you are offending
◼
►
as people by not reading what they
◼
►
posted publicly to the world but I feel
◼
►
like there's I feel like and I feel like
◼
►
that's one of the great things twitter
◼
►
is done over the years is resist that
◼
►
urge to give you like an unread count
◼
►
think that that's intentional it is and
◼
►
there was so much demand for it
◼
►
especially like when Twitter was like a
◼
►
ditz like sort of at the point where it
◼
►
was still young and malleable but was
◼
►
old enough and established enough that
◼
►
it was clearly going to be a huge thing
◼
►
like it was it been around long enough
◼
►
that everybody knew this was going to be
◼
►
a big deal but it was still young enough
◼
►
that they could have made changes like
◼
►
kind of switch to an inbox model where
◼
►
you're expected to read everything in
◼
►
your in your timeline or even to have
◼
►
the option that was the thing that
◼
►
people would say is just give us the
◼
►
option to do it that way and you can
◼
►
even you know I even agree that you
◼
►
should leave it off by default for most
◼
►
people but give me the option to have a
◼
►
read and unread count for tweets and
◼
►
that was that was back when we would
◼
►
like a splitter to change something and
◼
►
not be scared by what they would
◼
►
alright true there's a track when
◼
►
changes were usually a good thing right
◼
►
but I actually agree with that though
◼
►
that that mindset though because I do
◼
►
feel that by giving the option to do it
◼
►
you you implicitly endorse it you're
◼
►
saying that it's a legitimate way to use
◼
►
it and they're saying no and it is sort
◼
►
of like an apple type decision like you
◼
►
said where they're making the decision
◼
►
this is the best way to read twitter is
◼
►
just start with what's going on right
◼
►
now and growth scroll down until you're
◼
►
bored and don't worry about catching up
◼
►
if you're away for a day where they dive
◼
►
into this to the stream wherever it
◼
►
happens to be and that's it I'm i guess
◼
►
i do read all my replies
◼
►
although I can't say like if I'm on
◼
►
vacation or on a conference or traveling
◼
►
or something that I necessarily do
◼
►
sometimes it gets out of control
◼
►
yeah but I don't find it that hard to do
◼
►
it's easy because with that replies
◼
►
especially because you know like you
◼
►
have that you have a pretty asymmetric
◼
►
followed to follow account so i think
◼
►
who reply to you on twitter probably
◼
►
don't implicitly expect a response to
◼
►
every one of those replies where I was
◼
►
like you know with with email the kind
◼
►
of this for most people there's this
◼
►
implicit expectation that you're going
◼
►
to respond if somebody takes the time to
◼
►
compose an email to you then you know
◼
►
you should probably respond if you don't
◼
►
want to be a dick and and of course I
◼
►
just choose to be a dick to everybody
◼
►
and not respond like I can't
◼
►
well and I've mentioned this before but
◼
►
there is something to that's really
◼
►
really it's almost like evolutionary you
◼
►
know that it gets to what humans are
◼
►
good at with twitter as opposed to even
◼
►
email is that you can do it all with
◼
►
your eyeballs because you don't have to
◼
►
open a tweet to read it even matter what
◼
►
your email program is if you have one
◼
►
and like most super you can just keep
◼
►
hitting the spacebar for example to keep
◼
►
going next message next message
◼
►
you still have to like move your eyes up
◼
►
to the top of the screen each time and
◼
►
even people who are being conscientious
◼
►
and thinking well this guy's busy or
◼
►
even if you don't even think somebody's
◼
►
busy just the fact that it's harder to
◼
►
write a concise short message then it is
◼
►
a rambling one and keep it short
◼
►
Twitter's enforced brevity makes it
◼
►
possible for i can just read I don't
◼
►
know what I'm looking at right now my
◼
►
screen looks like I don't know a dozen
◼
►
tweets at a time just by moving my eyes
◼
►
down and it's so much faster it's like
◼
►
an order of magnitude faster than even
◼
►
the most efficient email right even if
◼
►
everybody's email to me was tweet length
◼
►
it's so much more efficient
◼
►
well because tweets are constrained to
◼
►
that land the clients can be designed in
◼
►
a way that makes it easy to skip a whole
◼
►
bunch of them as email it could be one
◼
►
line or it could be some giant
◼
►
newsletter with a rich layout and
◼
►
pictures embedded and everything like
◼
►
you don't know what to expect with email
◼
►
to the clients have to have these these
◼
►
you know big flexible windows and
◼
►
everything and and it's just not the
◼
►
yeah totally I what else is going on
◼
►
not much I don't know I've been busy
◼
►
working on various stuff and I've kind
◼
►
I've missed most of the news i accept
◼
►
the apple stock stuff it's just annoyed
◼
►
me so now I'm so glad to be out of it
◼
►
I here's here's one that I thought was
◼
►
pretty interesting and I I'll there's
◼
►
two points to it is this email that's
◼
►
come out in a legal legal case between I
◼
►
forget who also involved but the
◼
►
government's investigating apple and
◼
►
google a bunch of other companies in
◼
►
Silicon Valley for a guy i don't know
◼
►
what you want to call it legally but no
◼
►
higher thing yeah like and it's like
◼
►
that it's Annie legal form of collusion
◼
►
that they've agreed they unofficially
◼
►
agreed Adobe's involved you know that
◼
►
they agreed not to poach the other
◼
►
company's employees and if a guy from
◼
►
every current employee of Apple came to
◼
►
let's say Google and applied for a job
◼
►
that guy was fair game because he
◼
►
applied but that the each company's
◼
►
recruiters agreed implicitly not to go
◼
►
after employees at the other companies
◼
►
which in itself is apparently illegal
◼
►
and I you know I think for obvious
◼
►
reasons it's not it might be good for
◼
►
these companies but it's certainly not
◼
►
good for the individual engineers you
◼
►
know the right such thing in California
◼
►
has really i think generally pretty good
◼
►
laws on the books for and you know all
◼
►
these companies are in California in
◼
►
California is no non-competes those
◼
►
exactly i think it goes hand and so
◼
►
happened that was exactly the examples
◼
►
that they don't have they don't force
◼
►
non-competes they're very very liberal
◼
►
and towards the engineers rights workers
◼
►
rights but this the one that really
◼
►
caught my eye though is this one had an
◼
►
email from did you see this an email to
◼
►
need jobs to add college and had
◼
►
colligan being the palm CEO the pc guys
◼
►
aren't about not being worried about
◼
►
Apple entering the cell phone market a
◼
►
couple weeks before the iphone was
◼
►
announced because pc guys they've spent
◼
►
a long time I trying to make a good cell
◼
►
phone pc guys aren't gonna walk right in
◼
►
I here's the email that Steve Jobs sent
◼
►
this is not satisfactory to apple it is
◼
►
not just a matter of our employees
◼
►
deciding they want to join palm they are
◼
►
being actively recruited using knowledge
◼
►
supplied by john reuben
◼
►
and Fred Anderson now that aside jon
◼
►
rubinstein was I forget his title was it
◼
►
next but he was one of the guys that
◼
►
came over from next to apple had worked
◼
►
with steve jobs for a long time and was
◼
►
ahead of hardware engineering at Apple
◼
►
during the early ipod era and when they
◼
►
really turned around the max and made
◼
►
max you know aluminum and all sorts of
◼
►
stuff and he had been in retirement is
◼
►
living and like a mansion down in Mexico
◼
►
or something like that and palm got him
◼
►
to come back to run that and Fred
◼
►
Anderson was the former CFO at Apple who
◼
►
kind of got thrown under the bus with
◼
►
the that options thing that you referred
◼
►
to in fact dating scandal
◼
►
yeah he kind of took the fall for that
◼
►
options backdating thing which keep that
◼
►
in mind I i'm going to bring up right
◼
►
back up in a minute with John back to
◼
►
jobs email with John personally
◼
►
participating in the recruiting process
◼
►
we must do whatever we can to stop this
◼
►
I'm sure you realize the asymmetry in
◼
►
the financial resources of our
◼
►
respective companies when you say we
◼
►
will both just end up paying a lot of
◼
►
lawyers a lot of money and quote and
◼
►
then it goes on and and effectively jobs
◼
►
threatens a patent suit if palm doesn't
◼
►
agree that their apples going to go
◼
►
after appt after palm on patent grounds
◼
►
if Tom doesn't agree to this sort of no
◼
►
post policy and then bad Mouse a bunch
◼
►
of patents more or less says what he
◼
►
said here i guess i should just read it
◼
►
when semen sold their handset business
◼
►
to benq they didn't sell them they're
◼
►
essential patents but rather just gave
◼
►
them a license the patents they did sell
◼
►
the benq are not that great
◼
►
we looked at them ourselves when they
◼
►
were for sale I guess you guys felt
◼
►
differently and bought them we are not
◼
►
concerned about them at all
◼
►
my advice is to take a look at our
◼
►
patent portfolio before you make a final
◼
►
decision here Steve center right and to
◼
►
me it's just I loved it in the sense
◼
►
that it's such classic steve jobs you
◼
►
know it's it's your thing is shit
◼
►
our stuff is awesome just do what I want
◼
►
right these patents you bought your dumb
◼
►
like that's always that's part of the
◼
►
jobs like kungfu or the Jedi mind trick
◼
►
is to somehow convince you that you're
◼
►
dumb help and everything's black and
◼
►
white right we took a look at these this
◼
►
is about you know that I guess the
◼
►
culligan that said we look we bought
◼
►
these patents from this Bend I never
◼
►
heard a benq but who knows they're doing
◼
►
a bunch of mobile patterns I if you know
◼
►
we bought them in the jobs and we looked
◼
►
we decided their shit and I guess you
◼
►
felt differently and I i think it's such
◼
►
classic job so I you know I guess I was
◼
►
amused you know it it's there's so much
◼
►
character in that email and it's just
◼
►
kind of a yeah and and not to mention i
◼
►
love the the lawyer bit to go like
◼
►
because your palm guides it over just
◼
►
gonna spend too much money on lawyers
◼
►
which is usually you know if you're
◼
►
being threatened legal action the person
◼
►
who's being threatened and knows that
◼
►
they would lose or would cost them a
◼
►
whole lot of money usually that's what
◼
►
they say oh let's leave the lawyers at
◼
►
as well we'll figure this out okay
◼
►
that's not a position of power the it
◼
►
was coming from there man i was that yet
◼
►
that you know was fantastic right so
◼
►
here's Dan Lyons take on it today over
◼
►
it the the reed whiteread right no more
◼
►
web to drop that huh right they drop
◼
►
that when they when they brought down
◼
►
lines and I says he quotes this and sets
◼
►
the stage and he has a picture of the
◼
►
email and then he says apple fan blogger
◼
►
John Gruber seems to think this letter
◼
►
is just the coolest thing ever
◼
►
a quote stone-cold message that shows
◼
►
quote the man did not beat around the
◼
►
bush I actually that's typical Dan Lyons
◼
►
where I I never said it was the coolest
◼
►
thing ever and he didn't put quotes
◼
►
around it i didn't say was the coolest
◼
►
thing ever and I didn't you know I don't
◼
►
go into deep analysis of everything I
◼
►
link to I he's saying here but wait a
◼
►
minute let's look at what happened here
◼
►
jobs one jobs propose something to Palm
◼
►
that was not only wrong but also quite
◼
►
likely illegal as colleague and put it
◼
►
to call again refused to do something
◼
►
illegal three is punishment jobs
◼
►
threatened to drag palm in two years of
◼
►
bogus patent suits he was perfectly
◼
►
willing to use parentheses abused ? the
◼
►
legals the court system to hurt arrival
◼
►
and then online system we're supposed to
◼
►
see jobs is some kind of hero
◼
►
i I didn't say we're supposed to see him
◼
►
as a hero for that and I didn't pass any
◼
►
real judgment on it and i would say that
◼
►
saying that the letter of the email was
◼
►
stone cold is whether you think jobs is
◼
►
a complete asshole for it or that it's
◼
►
funny or that you think he was
◼
►
completely in the right to do it i think
◼
►
everybody could agree it was a pretty
◼
►
stone-cold email right yeah that that's
◼
►
I like that's all I wrote I didn't say
◼
►
it was cool you know and in fact if you
◼
►
want me to do it analyzed it a little
◼
►
bit i would actually say that in a sense
◼
►
it's probably that's probably the worst
◼
►
of steve jobs and that it is i don't
◼
►
know what's the word impetuous you know
◼
►
it's it's reckless right it is that's a
◼
►
reckless thing and here's the thing
◼
►
ah i was emailing someone else about it
◼
►
today and they were date somebody else
◼
►
had emailed me a friend email and so
◼
►
what patterns do you think Jobs was
◼
►
threatening palm with and I said you
◼
►
know what he probably didn't have any
◼
►
patents in mind he was just making the
◼
►
threat and if it ever came to it he'd go
◼
►
and say find some patterns into it right
◼
►
but he didn't have any patents in mind
◼
►
and he clearly didn't here's the thing
◼
►
he clearly didn't go to apple legal and
◼
►
say find me some patents to go after
◼
►
palm because i want to write this email
◼
►
because if he did even if they had the
◼
►
patents that they could threaten them
◼
►
with if he had gone to apple legal
◼
►
surely Apple legal would have said you
◼
►
can't put that in writing because
◼
►
sending an email like that making a
◼
►
threat like that is illegal and you
◼
►
certainly don't want to put
◼
►
writing right like I think it's fairly
◼
►
clear that Steve Jobs didn't run that
◼
►
oh you just wrote it I mean that's why
◼
►
it's so amusing to people i guess who
◼
►
follow you know him and and and hit the
◼
►
his company in this whole business is
◼
►
like yeah you gotta give the guy credit
◼
►
he had balls and there there there are
◼
►
not that many people in our industry who
◼
►
will speak that frankly who are in a
◼
►
position of power i think his friend
◼
►
Larry also known as one they really
◼
►
aren't a whole lot of a whole lot more
◼
►
and it's silly its I I feel like it
◼
►
maybe it's I don't like an East Coast
◼
►
thing is that I feel like it's a
◼
►
cultural thing of some sort
◼
►
we're like either you love that attitude
◼
►
as a spectator or it or it's off-putting
◼
►
even then a nicer love it right I
◼
►
certainly wouldn't have even if he had
◼
►
said if he had sent me an email and said
◼
►
John I've read your site for a long time
◼
►
never asked your opinion before but
◼
►
here's the thing i want to send this
◼
►
email to get colleague and you think you
◼
►
think I should i would have had to say
◼
►
well it's pretty funny but I don't think
◼
►
you should send that because i don't
◼
►
know i don't think you know I don't
◼
►
think you should be making legal threats
◼
►
like this in an email i would have to
◼
►
you know I think anybody would have said
◼
►
that and I do think that in a sense that
◼
►
that sort of reckless impetuousness was
◼
►
the worst of steve jobs for apple and
◼
►
kind of made him a little bit ill suited
◼
►
to run them the larger and larger they
◼
►
got and I think it's the exact sort of
◼
►
thing that got them into the trouble
◼
►
with those options being backdated like
◼
►
I don't think he wasn't trying to cheat
◼
►
the system I think per se
◼
►
he just wasn't concerned he just wanted
◼
►
what he wanted and and obviously you
◼
►
know I think in hindsight the way that
◼
►
whole options thing played out you know
◼
►
got very very careful they're really
◼
►
getting in big trouble and other people
◼
►
did you know have to get thrown under
◼
►
I don't really know what I like I don't
◼
►
know about the options the comment on at
◼
►
all because I I don't know what was
◼
►
going on and how they effectively like
◼
►
you racing dates on some options and
◼
►
said that the board the
◼
►
approved the changing of these dates
◼
►
when the board had not approved at the
◼
►
board ended up proving this change on
◼
►
the dates after they changed all the
◼
►
dates alka I don't think they like in
◼
►
general the guy i think what one of the
◼
►
things that made Steve so compelling to
◼
►
pay attention to is is that he was that
◼
►
reckless and and that most of the time
◼
►
it worked for him like he was very very
◼
►
good at breaking rules just enough to be
◼
►
interesting and to get ahead but not
◼
►
enough to really get himself in trouble
◼
►
alright and you can see how that mindset
◼
►
and that boldness would be great at the
◼
►
negotiating table in a room where you're
◼
►
just talking to people right where
◼
►
nothing is being recorded right and it's
◼
►
not so good when you're sending emails
◼
►
that are in a system that can be brought
◼
►
up for years later exactly in a way that
◼
►
you know Tim Cook is never gonna send
◼
►
that email right and I feel like it's
◼
►
actually in a way that Tim Cook is you
◼
►
know and I'm not trying to argue here
◼
►
that Apple is better off that Steve Jobs
◼
►
is dead or that Steve Jobs isn't the CEO
◼
►
I but that there are trade-offs involved
◼
►
and there are certain ways where I think
◼
►
it's clear that Tim Cook is better at
◼
►
CEO because he's not impetuous I mean
◼
►
he's he's more level-headed and and it's
◼
►
going to work for end against apple and
◼
►
long-term like Steve's craziness really
◼
►
brought a lot of the company and really
◼
►
was necessary to achieve a lot of what
◼
►
they achieved I I still can't believe I
◼
►
don't know how much steve was involved i
◼
►
have to imagine it was it was a lot i
◼
►
still can't believe in fairly recent
◼
►
some of the later things he did that
◼
►
itunes match is it would that work so
◼
►
that's legal that he actually to go to
◼
►
or somebody negotiated that with the
◼
►
record companies i don't know what
◼
►
that's like that's the kind of thing
◼
►
that it wasn't too far before he died
◼
►
but I I assume he was involved in that
◼
►
because the kind of crazy negotiation
◼
►
that you know now the record companies
◼
►
are allowing amazon and google to do
◼
►
very similar things but i think only
◼
►
because Apple did at first and now you
◼
►
want it were and they want to keep you
◼
►
know for the same reason that the
◼
►
companies gave amazonmp3 drm free stuff
◼
►
first is that is that they don't want
◼
►
Apple to be too powerful in that
◼
►
industry really don't want to be holding
◼
►
one company so they you know Apple got
◼
►
out of them and then eventually they
◼
►
gave the other companies to help keep
◼
►
apple and check i think you know I think
◼
►
I'm sure that if you know the just a
◼
►
book about Apple's go various
◼
►
negotiations over the last 10 years with
◼
►
the record companies would probably be a
◼
►
pretty good book out I just the art
◼
►
record media companies let's say but
◼
►
yeah it that the original ones and i'm
◼
►
sure they were hard to just the original
◼
►
ones to get the the original itunes
◼
►
store off the ground I'm sure we are
◼
►
fascinating and work hard and you know
◼
►
and that jobs single being a personality
◼
►
a large part of it but it clearly that
◼
►
was a lot easier because Apple was
◼
►
coming at it from the perspective of
◼
►
we're just little old Apple our ipods
◼
►
only work on Max and Max only have 2.5
◼
►
percent of the market share and Ammon
◼
►
and they've actually I forget where
◼
►
that's come out but somewhere that's
◼
►
actually come out where I know that
◼
►
that's actually that was actually part
◼
►
of their pitch to the record labels was
◼
►
what's the worst that could happen you
◼
►
know even if this thing because the Reno
◼
►
the record company people didn't even
◼
►
understand the technology involved and
◼
►
what's the worst that could happen if
◼
►
somehow everybody who has this itunes
◼
►
software can get access to all the music
◼
►
on the thing it's still only 2.5 percent
◼
►
of the market it's just this tiny little
◼
►
sliver you know but that you know wisely
◼
►
and you know not accidentally nothing in
◼
►
the contracts ever said that itunes was
◼
►
going to be mac only forever
◼
►
I said that and that all of the record
◼
►
people just assumed that it was because
◼
►
that's all apple ever did is make stuff
◼
►
for their own hardware devices and I
◼
►
feel like you know taking it back to the
◼
►
beginning of apples success really
◼
►
actually being a hindrance in many ways
◼
►
now like the things they've tried to try
◼
►
to negotiate now with some of the big
◼
►
companies like they're the TV deals for
◼
►
and you know why we have itunes match
◼
►
for music and not from movies or TV
◼
►
LTV sort of sometimes and yeah you know
◼
►
we're seeing now like anything to do
◼
►
with TV where I think this is really
◼
►
what's holding it back is now all these
◼
►
companies are afraid to give Apple too
◼
►
much power because they see what Apple
◼
►
is capable of now that they're big and
◼
►
successful and they don't want Apple to
◼
►
cut them out or to take all the profit
◼
►
out of the business and I think too that
◼
►
it's in and that's what I mean and
◼
►
that's exactly the point that I wanted
◼
►
to make to that I think that win like at
◼
►
iTunes Match two years ago with Apple
◼
►
being the Apple we know today the
◼
►
industry Goliath is such a more
◼
►
surprising win because they didn't sneak
◼
►
it in through the back door like there's
◼
►
no more hey we're just a little apple
◼
►
you write what we really care what we do
◼
►
it to me to there's also a factor that
◼
►
I'm sure plays into it which is that
◼
►
Apple as a sort of mystique that you
◼
►
negotiate with apple and no matter what
◼
►
you think looking at the offer apple
◼
►
always wins right so and did you see the
◼
►
thing recently it was this great New
◼
►
Yorker profile about this guy this this
◼
►
professional like stage pickpocket in
◼
►
Las Vegas is the hollow something that's
◼
►
my google this hollow pocket the great
◼
►
profile of this guy Apollo Robbins so
◼
►
he's a professional pickpocket but he
◼
►
doesn't steal things from people he does
◼
►
it is i can act and he'll go and and
◼
►
it's just amazing I mean you got a
◼
►
google this guy Apollo Robbins down and
◼
►
see the video of the way that it works
◼
►
but the articles by adam green it starts
◼
►
out so great the edges are just going to
◼
►
read the opening it's a real long
◼
►
article so I'm not spoiling it a few
◼
►
years ago at a Las Vegas Convention for
◼
►
a magician Penn Jillette of the Act penn
◼
►
and teller was introduced to a
◼
►
soft-spoken young man named Apollo
◼
►
Robbins who has a reputation as a
◼
►
pickpocket of almost supernatural
◼
►
ability Gillette who ranks pick who
◼
►
ranks pickpocket says
◼
►
quote a few notches below hypnotists on
◼
►
the showbiz totem pole and try to rank
◼
►
them was holding court at a table of
◼
►
colleagues and he asked Robbins for a
◼
►
demonstration ready to be unimpressed
◼
►
Robbins demurred claiming that he felt
◼
►
uncomfortable working in front of other
◼
►
magicians he pointed out comma since
◼
►
Gillette was wearing only shorts and a
◼
►
sports shirt he wouldn't have much to
◼
►
come on Gillette said steal something
◼
►
Robin's begged off but he offered to do
◼
►
a trick instead he instructed Gillette
◼
►
to place a ring that he was wearing on a
◼
►
piece of paper and trace its outline
◼
►
with a pen by now a small crowd gathered
◼
►
Gillette removed his ring put it down on
◼
►
the paper and unclip the pen from his
◼
►
shirt and lean forward preparing to draw
◼
►
after a moment he froze and looked up
◼
►
his face was pale block you
◼
►
he said and slumped into a chair Robbins
◼
►
held up a thin cylindrical object the
◼
►
cartridge from Gillette spin right wow
◼
►
is it i mean and the thing now here's
◼
►
the thing that made me think about this
◼
►
story is that it's the idea that if you
◼
►
met this guy or if you met Penn Jillette
◼
►
who you know is a magician and he starts
◼
►
telling me what you know to do something
◼
►
you know he's gonna get the best of you
◼
►
write like you know that he's going to
◼
►
fool you because he's the reason the
◼
►
magician and he's done the trick
◼
►
a thousand times right like so I I feel
◼
►
like when other companies negotiate with
◼
►
Apple they feel like they just know that
◼
►
they're going to get their pocket pic ok
◼
►
it is probably pretty safe assumption
◼
►
right and that just like a magician
◼
►
who's going to make it harder and harder
◼
►
and say like look I know that you think
◼
►
that I'm gonna cheat you out of this I'm
◼
►
going to get your thing i'm going to
◼
►
take your wallet right out of your
◼
►
pocket so he's gonna do I'm gonna be a
◼
►
blindfold myself here put take this
◼
►
burlap sack put my head in the sack
◼
►
doesn't matter what you do
◼
►
they're still going to get you you know
◼
►
like no matter what terms Apple puts in
◼
►
I because you gotta figure Lee apples
◼
►
not going to enter a bad deal for them
◼
►
right you know they're they're obviously
◼
►
you know they've proven that they're
◼
►
pretty good at negotiating to know
◼
►
that the breakdown in my analogy though
◼
►
is that I think the music industry has
◼
►
done very well by itunes as well now the
◼
►
music industry might disagree because
◼
►
they want like all of the money but I
◼
►
feel like itunes might have saved them
◼
►
bankruptcy or dissolution like the
◼
►
entire structure i think i think you're
◼
►
and i also agree that they don't really
◼
►
see it that way you know they they see
◼
►
most of most of the public remarks we've
◼
►
seen and the stories we've heard and
◼
►
from various accounts of meetings and
◼
►
stuff most of what we've seen indicates
◼
►
that most of the big labels do think
◼
►
that itunes was like a bad thing for
◼
►
them and that it took over the industry
◼
►
from the minute it did take over a good
◼
►
amount of the control but at the time
◼
►
that itunes came out piracy was so big
◼
►
and all of the other paid services were
◼
►
flopping like crazy and so it's really
◼
►
hard to argue that there was a bright
◼
►
future without itunes in 2003 or
◼
►
whenever it came out right there plant
◼
►
their plan more or less i think boiled
◼
►
down to somehow figure out a way to stop
◼
►
piracy right and that they still believe
◼
►
that that was possible in their minds
◼
►
they think that there was a way somebody
◼
►
had it some clever guy with a beard
◼
►
could have figured it out that there was
◼
►
a way to stop piracy and then things
◼
►
will go back to the way they were
◼
►
which was beautiful explore as Apple's
◼
►
argument and this am I making on this
◼
►
isn't my analysis is explicitly how
◼
►
Steve Jobs pissed pitched it on stage
◼
►
was not that you're going to beat piracy
◼
►
but that you can design something easier
◼
►
than piracy are you compete with it
◼
►
right compete with it in terms of being
◼
►
convenient and fast and available and
◼
►
accurate so that if you type a certain
◼
►
song name you getting the actual song
◼
►
and have it come with the album art and
◼
►
and that Senator doesn't guarantee the
◼
►
quality and everything it's not right he
◼
►
accidentally in Spanish or anything you
◼
►
people will pay 99 cents for it exactly
◼
►
at least right at least enough of them
◼
►
will that it's better than the zero
◼
►
dollars that they were heading towards
◼
►
that's right exactly like you because
◼
►
they the future they were really heading
◼
►
to is one where one person somewhere by
◼
►
the CD and everybody has a copy of all
◼
►
every album sells three copy the same
◼
►
crappy often three people who are trying
◼
►
to be the first to get uploaded a gift
◼
►
alright let me do the second sponsor
◼
►
second sponsor I know you've never heard
◼
►
of this company's brand new company
◼
►
called talks and I never heard of them
◼
►
ah I they make a source roast and ship
◼
►
coffee now everybody I i kid i kid
◼
►
because they've been as strong supporter
◼
►
of the talk show for the last few months
◼
►
here's the quote i want to i have i've
◼
►
been thinking about this i'm going to go
◼
►
back to this quote from andy warhol
◼
►
talking about coca-cola is a quote from
◼
►
Andy Warhol's coca-cola what's great
◼
►
about this country is that America
◼
►
started the tradition where the richest
◼
►
consumers by essentially the same things
◼
►
as the poorest you can be watching TV
◼
►
and see coca-cola and you know that the
◼
►
president drinks coke was Taylor drinks
◼
►
coke and just think you can drink Coke
◼
►
to coke is coke and no amount of money
◼
►
can get you a better coat than the one
◼
►
the bum on the street corner is drinking
◼
►
all the cokes are the same and all the
◼
►
cokes are good Liz Taylor knows it
◼
►
the president knows it the bum knows it
◼
►
and you know it i love that quote yeah I
◼
►
and to me the way it relates to talks is
◼
►
this and it's it's this sort of
◼
►
mass-market luxury items right that in
◼
►
the old days you know let's go back two
◼
►
three four hundred years only like kings
◼
►
and and landowners could have like the
◼
►
best of anything and everybody else
◼
►
lived with like dirt floors and one
◼
►
shirt that they had to like so
◼
►
here's the thing you can buy the best
◼
►
coffee in the world and you don't have
◼
►
to pay more than a reasonable amount for
◼
►
the coffee you get at the supermarket to
◼
►
get it you just go to talk start or do
◼
►
x.org sign up for a free trial
◼
►
see for yourself the free trial to me is
◼
►
key because then you don't take my word
◼
►
for you can believe it but what you're
◼
►
getting is the best coffee in the world
◼
►
i mean it is just phenomenal and it's
◼
►
you know you're not paying an arm and a
◼
►
leg for your not paying you're not
◼
►
having to hire someone to roast coffee
◼
►
for you or something like that they do
◼
►
and you're getting a world-class stuff
◼
►
and you don't have to worry about it
◼
►
anymore it's never in the back your mind
◼
►
you have to sit there and think i could
◼
►
be drinking better coffee instead you
◼
►
just have it and it just shows up at
◼
►
your house you don't even have to leave
◼
►
and the end for me that's this is going
◼
►
to be a bigger and bigger deal it's like
◼
►
I swear to god it's like 13 degrees here
◼
►
actually up I not leaving the house to
◼
►
like go get more coffee i I'd it
◼
►
couldn't be better just the fact that
◼
►
I've right downstairs in my kitchen I've
◼
►
got a sealed-up bag of talks coffee to
◼
►
start my day I I I just can't imagine
◼
►
how it could be a better service the
◼
►
more i think about talks the more i I'm
◼
►
just blown away by how the fact that I I
◼
►
just can't even imagine how it could be
◼
►
any better I the other thought I haven't
◼
►
talked to it and it happens to me every
◼
►
single day that I make honks coffee and
◼
►
sit here and work on during fireball is
◼
►
I'm always I make coffee i make about
◼
►
three cups at a time that's about enough
◼
►
caffeine for me I'm always a little bit
◼
►
sad when i go to pour and I do this
◼
►
every time I go to pour a little more
◼
►
and it ends up i'm already out of it i
◼
►
thought i thought i was on like cup too
◼
►
and I had one more and then I think to
◼
►
myself well I should go brew another pot
◼
►
now that's just way that's too much you
◼
►
know that you that you know it's a
◼
►
little different booths but you can
◼
►
definitely have too much coffee and it
◼
►
it can turn you off so i kinda have to
◼
►
you know you gotta race it out but it's
◼
►
a little sadness everyday when i when i
◼
►
finish my ipod talks and and that's a
◼
►
oh yeah song start org go there and sign
◼
►
up for the free trial one thing i love
◼
►
about talks and actually point i think i
◼
►
think this week yet they sponsored my
◼
►
site this week i think i don't know i
◼
►
hope i get us wrong yet was this week
◼
►
alright complete coincidence that you're
◼
►
the guest on the show and tour 2421 spot
◼
►
we just as good sponsors really honestly
◼
►
yeah and one thing you know people
◼
►
always ask first of all I'd to prove it
◼
►
to preface this is a fantastic interview
◼
►
with LED flash minh on his new podcast
◼
►
do the new disrupters which is on mule
◼
►
yeah you know and I just I anything to
◼
►
it before the show when is making me
◼
►
sick he is is Hannah he's all I've
◼
►
always been a huge fan of Glenn's work
◼
►
but he's like on fire lately and parties
◼
►
DS the editors everybody
◼
►
dezeen he's he's got this new podcast I
◼
►
linked it up today because he had my pal
◼
►
gym kudos on that this week's episode I
◼
►
almost linked up the tanks episode but I
◼
►
really kind of felt like well I I didn't
◼
►
want to put a disclaimer and about tongs
◼
►
being but it was it was a great episode
◼
►
though I did anyway what one of the
◼
►
things I loved about it was that that
◼
►
Tony of tonks he talked a lot about how
◼
►
modern coffee consumer culture is really
◼
►
a gadget fetish of all these different
◼
►
coffee brewing equipment and and the
◼
►
rituals and the techniques and and the
◼
►
really need agree details of how you
◼
►
make it and and a lot of it matters a
◼
►
lot of it doesn't and and i've often
◼
►
I've thought about for years i guess now
◼
►
everybody can steal my idea I thought
◼
►
about for years doing a series of posts
◼
►
on my site of actually try actually
◼
►
setting up real blind taste tests for
◼
►
different things like doesn't matter
◼
►
whether you wet the aeropress filter
◼
►
before you use it you know like all the
◼
►
stuff that i'm kinda skeptical like
◼
►
whether it matters or not and I you know
◼
►
actually have like a real like real
◼
►
tasters and a real double-blind set up
◼
►
I'll probably never do it that's a heck
◼
►
of a lot of work and set up in people
◼
►
but I i really want somebody to do this
◼
►
because there is so much of it that's
◼
►
that's unnecessary I don't believe in
◼
►
the wedding the filters
◼
►
neither do I&I I you know cuz i don't
◼
►
actually I don't understand how that
◼
►
could make a damn bit of difference i
◼
►
really don't and a but i would love for
◼
►
someone to run a test like that if if
◼
►
somebody ran that the test that you're
◼
►
proposing and they said you know what it
◼
►
does make a difference then I would do
◼
►
it right i would start
◼
►
yeah but like I i tried it like with
◼
►
with the Chemex III own almost every
◼
►
popular method for brewing drip coffee i
◼
►
have a chemex a vacuum pot of course I
◼
►
have the air press and and all sorts of
◼
►
other other lesser-known ones and and
◼
►
what I use every day's the aeropress
◼
►
this $25 plastic plunger thing and and
◼
►
so you know people always ask me what
◼
►
kind of coffee it's what kind of coffee
◼
►
maker should i get is kind of like
◼
►
asking a professional photographer what
◼
►
kind of camera they have like it's it it
◼
►
matters less than you think this is
◼
►
and and usually it's the wrong question
◼
►
really is especially since I guess
◼
►
they're getting better maybe but the
◼
►
vast majority of commercial coffee
◼
►
makers are incapable of making good
◼
►
coffee and they're all end in reality
◼
►
the results from them are are really
◼
►
quite similar usually not to be snobby
◼
►
about it but that there's some basic
◼
►
physics involved that the water
◼
►
temperature just never even gets close
◼
►
enough to being hot enough and so it
◼
►
doesn't matter what kind of coffee you
◼
►
put in it's never gonna really get the
◼
►
most out of the coffee or the problem i
◼
►
have with them is that I I'd like to use
◼
►
a good ratio of coffee like the the scaa
◼
►
ratio and usually that ratio if you
◼
►
actually use it to make more than a few
◼
►
cups of coffee and red pot usually the
◼
►
filter basket will overflow which can be
◼
►
which would be a real moment it is to me
◼
►
a few times like that relatives houses
◼
►
at that's always fun so might whenever
◼
►
people ask me you know what what should
◼
►
i do to make good coffee
◼
►
I used to not really have a very good
◼
►
answer for them because i used to live a
◼
►
roaster so mad my answer was well I have
◼
►
really good coffee because i love arrest
◼
►
expect you don't have this potential so
◼
►
try to find something good and and in
◼
►
most places it's the reality is most
◼
►
places where most people live there
◼
►
isn't a good restaurant nearby so my
◼
►
solution now is you need three things
◼
►
you need a clicky keyboard a sodastream
◼
►
know what you need you need a burr
◼
►
grinder and and that can be anywhere
◼
►
from 60 to 200 bucks my preferred one is
◼
►
200 bucks the brats a virtuoso it is
◼
►
fantastic but there's there's a few that
◼
►
are like in the sixty dollar range that
◼
►
I think I i haven't used them people
◼
►
said a pretty good too so that's fine
◼
►
you got a burr grinder to grind fine you
◼
►
get an aeropress for 25 bucks and you
◼
►
get talks and that's it that you then
◼
►
you're done like then you have a great
◼
►
coffee and you know the grinders little
◼
►
bit expensive but then but you know you
◼
►
don't have to buy this like
◼
►
three-hundred-dollar coffeemaker you
◼
►
know they're in there is no integrated
◼
►
system there's no cartridges of anything
◼
►
special at all the cartridge machines
◼
►
give you stale coffee that's pretty
◼
►
great i mean you know it's like like
◼
►
there's there's no weird gimmicks or
◼
►
tricks it's just putting good
◼
►
coffee into a method to extract the
◼
►
flavor decently and that method happened
◼
►
to cost twenty-five dollars and and
◼
►
that's it the answer is really that
◼
►
simple and I you can do it for even
◼
►
cheaper you can you let me just by
◼
►
having fresh coffee good starting with
◼
►
good coffee and spore you know what is
◼
►
200 degree water over
◼
►
yeah.i liketo a pour-over filter cone
◼
►
you can get one of those for like 11 box
◼
►
right on and and pour overs have a
◼
►
higher tolerance for bad grinders so you
◼
►
know like the aeropress I'd say you need
◼
►
a fine grind I my grinder I had I had
◼
►
cleaned it I i I'd improperly reassemble
◼
►
it earlier this week and so for a couple
◼
►
days the grind was was not getting finds
◼
►
a way to course it was like stuck at the
◼
►
highest setting and what happens then
◼
►
when you when you use to course of a
◼
►
grind with their open totally change the
◼
►
flavor it makes it weaker and almost
◼
►
like a little more sour or little more
◼
►
tart because it's like it's missing some
◼
►
of the some of the depth that I'm
◼
►
probably describing it wrong i don't
◼
►
want to sound like a wine taster right
◼
►
there is something really look there is
◼
►
something weird about coffee that's
◼
►
unlike anything else to me which is that
◼
►
if you make it too weak
◼
►
it tastes worse but it tastes worse in
◼
►
some ways in a stronger flavored way
◼
►
right well yeah and some of that like
◼
►
sometimes the that the worst-tasting
◼
►
elements will be extracted more right in
◼
►
badly made coffee or you know like that
◼
►
there's things that like that going to
◼
►
go into as opposed to say let's say like
◼
►
like liquor where if you just don't have
◼
►
a taste for say bourbon straight that
◼
►
watering it down is going to might make
◼
►
it a lot more palatable or even
◼
►
enjoyable that that coffee that's too
◼
►
ritz it's worse yeah because it has no
◼
►
taste but because like you said it
◼
►
extracts the wrong tastes and not you
◼
►
know that there's actual snatcher
◼
►
sweetness to coffee that just never gets
◼
►
out etc one of my favorite treats are
◼
►
quoted before but one of my favorite
◼
►
tweets with somebody who tweeted dr.
◼
►
listener who said that you know it
◼
►
always taken his coffee with sugar until
◼
►
he tried talks and then try it without
◼
►
sugar and it was the first time he
◼
►
didn't feel like you need to put sugar
◼
►
exactly i mean that's that that
◼
►
encapsulates it so much
◼
►
like great coffee does not need anything
◼
►
added to it right and and the other and
◼
►
I think casual people have the
◼
►
misconception that you we we go on and
◼
►
on about about toxin how great it is and
◼
►
they go around the world and that people
◼
►
think my god that coffee is probably so
◼
►
strong that it has the all of these and
◼
►
they associate strength with these
◼
►
bitter unpleasant taste that they think
◼
►
is what strong coffee is which is really
◼
►
just you know poorly made or over
◼
►
roasted coffee or stale coffee I that
◼
►
those are the taste that are exaggerated
◼
►
when it's actually i think the opposite
◼
►
it's these these two completely
◼
►
different flavors that really come out
◼
►
oh yeah definitely and and you know most
◼
►
people have never had really great
◼
►
coffee that could be drank black and and
◼
►
would still tastes really good you know
◼
►
and you know people there's a whole pile
◼
►
of BS around around coffee marketing in
◼
►
the mass-market like an in grocery
◼
►
stores and you know convenience store
◼
►
chains and everything and there's all
◼
►
the all this marketing that goes into
◼
►
making people think that is a trader
◼
►
joes coffee is better than dunkin donuts
◼
►
coffee and dunkin donuts coffee is
◼
►
better than 7 11 coffee and all this
◼
►
stuff and and the reality is almost all
◼
►
the almost all the coffee that most
◼
►
people ever heard of his terrible and i
◼
►
have is not cause it's it's not because
◼
►
of some grand conspiracy it's because
◼
►
it's really hard to make great coffee at
◼
►
that large of a scale and you can't make
◼
►
it so its shelf stable for very long i
◼
►
have a certain weak spot for dunkin
◼
►
donuts coffee i don't know i wouldn't
◼
►
heal it is good coffee but I do i do
◼
►
think that it's I don't know there's and
◼
►
it is also to me it's also very like
◼
►
McDonald's famously is supposed to be
◼
►
it's very concerned about their coffee
◼
►
but that mcdonald's food but at dunkin
◼
►
donuts coffee always tastes exactly the
◼
►
same doesn't matter what where you are
◼
►
what dunkin donuts to me it always
◼
►
tastes exactly the same I that I
◼
►
wouldn't go out of my way to get dunkin
◼
►
donuts but in a pinch where I had my
◼
►
choice between you know two or three
◼
►
chain places to buy coffee i would go to
◼
►
I mean good coffee is a lot more like
◼
►
in that you kinda can't make it that
◼
►
good without introducing some
◼
►
inconsistency because of you know you
◼
►
like your kind of closer to the metal
◼
►
everything's a little more fresh little
◼
►
more small batch usually like you like
◼
►
coffee is more like tomatoes like you'll
◼
►
have some years were just tomatoes are
◼
►
better that year you know I copies the
◼
►
same way like coffee from certain
◼
►
countries in certain you like wine from
◼
►
certain countries it's better than other
◼
►
countries if you have taste that are
◼
►
certain way certain years will be better
◼
►
than other years you know certain farms
◼
►
within those countries will be a little
◼
►
bit that other ones like it's all
◼
►
there's so much that goes into it and
◼
►
edit and it's it's very hard to make
◼
►
coffee consistently the same way all the
◼
►
time without blending the whole bunch of
◼
►
different origins together and
◼
►
standardizing everything and and kind of
◼
►
removing all the personality from it and
◼
►
making it just as one consistent bland
◼
►
product like McDonald's hamburger you
◼
►
would you like to talk about Pete's to
◼
►
do you can you take Pete I only ever
◼
►
have Pete when i'm at WWDC because there
◼
►
was you know if you go to the one-third
◼
►
and howard orders to the others like the
◼
►
one across from the W and the other one
◼
►
liked down the street from Moscow Niall
◼
►
on that that cross street
◼
►
I'll see I don't know that one I know
◼
►
the one at third nettles further over
◼
►
there by the w in the same wages
◼
►
yes so that Pete's is you know it in my
◼
►
opinion is very similar to starbucks but
◼
►
better so it it's it's still the same
◼
►
general category of store it still has
◼
►
the same challenges of you know it's
◼
►
still pretty pretty large cooperation
◼
►
you know no one is roasting in that
◼
►
store meet the people who are brewing in
◼
►
that store and not you know the
◼
►
employees might not be very particularly
◼
►
good at brewing hit record really care
◼
►
like follow like the discard timers and
◼
►
stuff like that but it's decent and and
◼
►
whenever I'm they're usually all go to
◼
►
Pete's because around the corner and if
◼
►
in a few blocks in the opposite
◼
►
there's blue bottle right which blue
◼
►
bottle coffee is very good but there's
◼
►
usually a 45-minute line out the door
◼
►
whenever I have to get to a section in
◼
►
the morning and it's gotten worse
◼
►
worse yes it has it's like word has
◼
►
I think that there's more people who
◼
►
work in that area like I don't know
◼
►
maybe it's all the square people really
◼
►
hasn't gone away and the line is longer
◼
►
it is so used to be the you go to blue
◼
►
bottle and at least I was always my luck
◼
►
that you could go and you had to wait
◼
►
but you have to wait like 10 minutes and
◼
►
it seemed well worth it because even if
◼
►
you want to do said screw it i'll just
◼
►
walk to Pete's Pete's there and back was
◼
►
whereas now yeah you go there and it is
◼
►
like like the line is out around the
◼
►
yeah like if I'm gonna like skip a whole
◼
►
session the maybe and maybe like that
◼
►
the after a long session if I decide all
◼
►
we know I'm kind of tired i'll skip
◼
►
after a long session then I'll take an
◼
►
hour and go to blue pothole and then
◼
►
come back and make it just barely make
◼
►
it back in time but you normally I go to
◼
►
Pete's because it's it's not it's not
◼
►
amazing but it's good i saw at the mat
◼
►
Honan n you know Matt he writes a wino
◼
►
of him i have an email you I saw him
◼
►
tweeting from CES where he was covering
◼
►
from wired and he brought like a whole
◼
►
copy opera apparatus with him to see us
◼
►
to make it this room because he didn't
◼
►
want to drink mass-market coffee haters
◼
►
now I've never seen that before that I
◼
►
mean I get you know a lot of hotel rooms
◼
►
have those coffee makers in the bathroom
◼
►
which is always really really kind of
◼
►
feels dirty i feel super dirty to me IE
◼
►
putting food making equipment in the
◼
►
bathroom having I don't know yeah like I
◼
►
I know like practically speaking ok it
◼
►
has a faucet has a sink like that makes
◼
►
sense but i still never feel right i
◼
►
think that the way I don't think that
◼
►
any hotel should put a coffee maker in
◼
►
the hotel room I think if they if they
◼
►
feel that their guests want coffee in
◼
►
the morning they should have coffee in
◼
►
the lobby and just give it to them
◼
►
I feel like that the little coffee maker
◼
►
in the hotel room is the grossest thing
◼
►
and in in the modern hotels
◼
►
although i will say the one the one
◼
►
pimping that I can do here that's
◼
►
relevant it's timely is the the hotel in
◼
►
Wellington for web stock that that that
◼
►
they put us up in a speakers and for
◼
►
website two years ago
◼
►
what's a better hotel it's not that it's
◼
►
the hotel that has the hippopotamus a
◼
►
hippopotamus is the bar i think it's
◼
►
called the Museum Hotel something like
◼
►
let's see they have in all the rooms
◼
►
they have they have pre-ground packets
◼
►
of coffee but it's from a local roaster
◼
►
the tenets and they're pretty good and
◼
►
they give you a bottom french press to
◼
►
brew an analytic an electric kettle to
◼
►
boil the water with so every morning and
◼
►
they're in Wellington I would make
◼
►
coffee and in this this catalyst french
◼
►
press in my room and it was it was the
◼
►
best hotel coffee I've ever had
◼
►
alright but that's do it wasn't in the
◼
►
bathroom though was it no it will not be
◼
►
the sweet sounds like all kitchen which
◼
►
one exactly right it's in a kid that's a
◼
►
whole different ball game to me it's not
◼
►
that people not a general opposition to
◼
►
making a coffee in your hotel room it's
◼
►
using a shitty little mr. coffee in the
◼
►
bathroom he just don't its kind of
◼
►
meaning i don't even like it when I see
◼
►
somebody bring a drink into the bathroom
◼
►
so we're gonna do with that you gonna
◼
►
drink that I mean it i don't know it's
◼
►
what we're seeing bring out of the
◼
►
bathroom then you know like if they
◼
►
bring it in they could pause believe it
◼
►
there right now you're going to ditch it
◼
►
but if it's like a glass or something
◼
►
like yeah they finish it up
◼
►
get rid of it and then go to the bad
◼
►
don't break glass in the bathroom Jimmy
◼
►
Christ I it is the i just looked it up
◼
►
and now it's gone it's the museum right
◼
►
museum art hotel okay in Wellington and
◼
►
buy an ad is a perfect segue i saw on
◼
►
twitter you were working on your old
◼
►
fashions I was which its ties in to do
◼
►
did you listen to the show Merlin was on
◼
►
Merlin I actually talked about this
◼
►
where we were at web stock two years ago
◼
►
februari and and the bar this is the
◼
►
hip-hop hippopotamus bar you were going
◼
►
to say Hiphopopotamus a pop-up which is
◼
►
what we all had taken to calling it the
◼
►
hiphopopotamus farm that was having a
◼
►
special old-fashioned month where they
◼
►
had an entire section or maybe was the
◼
►
entire menu and it was devoted to old
◼
►
fashions and variants on the
◼
►
old-fashioned cocktail and there was a
◼
►
great bartender their name Houston i saw
◼
►
and so you were working on your houston
◼
►
style old-fashioned indeed I
◼
►
I was trying to try to replicate it as
◼
►
best I can so I i have so that what we
◼
►
had from Houston with the old-fashioned
◼
►
it was it was Buffalo Trace which is in
◼
►
general buffalo trace is like is my
◼
►
favorite like normal bourbon like not
◼
►
ultra special not cheap like a normal
◼
►
bourbon if you're gonna have a bourbon
◼
►
especially we're gonna be making a lot
◼
►
of mixed drinks with that I i highly
◼
►
recommend Buffalo to not expensive
◼
►
though either i think here in
◼
►
Pennsylvania and not too bad you know
◼
►
820 sheep $23 or so that's not bad at
◼
►
22-23 dollars and that compares to let's
◼
►
say like a bottle of Jim Beam for like
◼
►
maybe fourteen fifteen dollars
◼
►
yeah before this I was into knob creek
◼
►
but and and woodford reserve those are
◼
►
both very good but I think buffalo trace
◼
►
is better than both of those in my
◼
►
opinion at least I think it's better for
◼
►
an old-fashioned I think he inserts that
◼
►
has me convinced and I have made an or
◼
►
an enormous number of old-fashioned is
◼
►
over the last two years and and Buffalo
◼
►
Trace you cannot go wrong with i believe
◼
►
so what I found so the Houston recipe
◼
►
was Buffalo Trace demerara sugar which
◼
►
44 demerara sugar I guess is more
◼
►
popular outside of America but I get
◼
►
arrested US but in the u.s. it's very
◼
►
similar to light brown sugar
◼
►
it's just you know it's sugar with some
◼
►
molasses still in it on and and so kind
◼
►
of between light and dark brown but so
◼
►
Buffalo Trace demerara sugar and some
◼
►
kind of bitters I don't know what kind
◼
►
of bitters he was using and for the
◼
►
citrus element he used grapefruit
◼
►
so you do a grapefruit rind he would
◼
►
twist it burn the oil and a little puff
◼
►
flame and no rubber on the glass and
◼
►
drop it in so great for was a citrus
◼
►
demerara sugar some kind of letters in
◼
►
Buffalo Trace I think I've actually come
◼
►
fairly close i haven't tried it with the
◼
►
fresh grapefruit but i did find in my I
◼
►
have a pretty nice kind of like booty
◼
►
grocery store so i went there and they
◼
►
Scrappy's bitters it's a bottle it and
◼
►
it's the grapefruit flavor of bitters m
◼
►
and so I use that with Buffalo Trace and
◼
►
I made it I made a simple syrup of
◼
►
demerara sugar and with just those three
◼
►
ingredients in 21 21 21 simple syrup or
◼
►
um I I don't know offhand I i wrote down
◼
►
I was just I was kind of doing as i went
◼
►
to i wrote down I used 50 grams of sugar
◼
►
24 ounces of of a hot water and so it i
◼
►
don't think it's one but it's it's
◼
►
weaker than that but uh yeah i've been
◼
►
using that just a little bit of that the
◼
►
Bourbon a good amount of bitters like
◼
►
you know three or four the little
◼
►
splashes because it comes out kind of
◼
►
slowly it's like one drop at a time and
◼
►
it's pretty good I and we no no no fruit
◼
►
no ice there's a great site if you're
◼
►
into making your own old-fashioned here
◼
►
I had it open here can we talk about
◼
►
this its old-fashioned 10 1.com and and
◼
►
it's it's like it's a one-page site very
◼
►
very simple and it's like here's like
◼
►
the five steps making on fashion here
◼
►
for an old-fashioned is and isn't and
◼
►
all it is is sugar some sweet something
◼
►
video and a spirit and that's everything
◼
►
else is optional or shouldn't be there
◼
►
because i love your fashion that i don't
◼
►
i'm not that big into most liquor drinks
◼
►
i I really don't care for most of them
◼
►
I'm usually more of a like a snobby
◼
►
craft beer guy but i do like bourbon a
◼
►
lot and so I developed a taste for the
◼
►
old-fashioned when when that's when when
◼
►
when either the beer selection somewhere
◼
►
is terrible or when it just makes more
◼
►
sense to have liquor for context reasons
◼
►
and and so I've ordered old-fashioned a
◼
►
few places and then maybe usually
◼
►
terrible because right usually it's it's
◼
►
like a fruit smoothie in there like that
◼
►
you wonder what what these people were
◼
►
thinking when they made it right and the
◼
►
history of it is is convoluted and i
◼
►
think i'm getting this is a great book
◼
►
that i have i recommend it highly out
◼
►
put a link in the show totes but it's
◼
►
the book is called bitters and it's by a
◼
►
guy named brad thomas parsons and the
◼
►
whole book is essentially just about
◼
►
bitters not even cocktails and general
◼
►
just bitters but then you know it's got
◼
►
drink recipes and and the old-fashioned
◼
►
is is the original I'm always so
◼
►
disappointed when i go to a bar that
◼
►
looks like they might have a real
◼
►
old-fashioned a good old-fashioned like
◼
►
there's gotta be like a name for i think
◼
►
that in this bitters book that that
◼
►
the Brad Parsons has a name for that
◼
►
old-fashioned i figure i can think of
◼
►
offhand though but he has I could like a
◼
►
disparaging name for it i'll give you my
◼
►
old-fashioned recipe cherish my
◼
►
old-fashioned recipe i'm a big fan of
◼
►
fee brothers bitters f ee brothers after
◼
►
I haven't seen him yet but I hope you
◼
►
can get them on amazon i think they saw
◼
►
it through a third party seller called
◼
►
keg works and maybe it'd be better to
◼
►
just go to kick works com I don't know
◼
►
but if you go to amazon and search for
◼
►
few brothers you'll find it they have a
◼
►
sampler where you can get that I think
◼
►
there's at least four varieties which is
◼
►
a they're at their standard bitters
◼
►
which are like at their take on
◼
►
angostura bitters which i think i think
◼
►
i like a little better than it then
◼
►
Angostura but I would i I'm not quite
◼
►
sure what would happen if i did a blind
◼
►
taste test but they're at least as good
◼
►
they have orange bitters grapefruit
◼
►
bitters and lemon better so i think the
◼
►
four pack is is regular Angostura orange
◼
►
I really like the orange bitters so my
◼
►
old-fashioned recipe too small dashes of
◼
►
orange bitters be brothers too small
◼
►
of their regular bitters angostura
◼
►
bitters 1mr demerara had a pencil yeah
◼
►
demerara demerara sugar cube little bit
◼
►
of water just a little bit just enough
◼
►
to get the sugar cube dissolved but
◼
►
here's the thing i always take it out of
◼
►
a sodastream bottom a little bit of
◼
►
fizzy water just a little just just just
◼
►
enough in the mixing thing to get the
◼
►
sugar to dissolve you're violating the
◼
►
one of these rules on the site which is
◼
►
what you never had water there is no
◼
►
cell service or water ginger ale or
◼
►
lemon soda an old-fashioned see I just
◼
►
put a little bit now I cannot do there's
◼
►
no bubbles in the drink you don't taste
◼
►
any carbonation in the drink so that's
◼
►
where i think what they're talking about
◼
►
I don't know I I like it's not like
◼
►
half-cell sir I think it just makes more
◼
►
fun the middle of the sugar cube if you
◼
►
see bubbles exploding see that's why I
◼
►
the reason I make the syrup and advances
◼
►
i have zero tolerance for having to try
◼
►
to dissolve the sugar in cold water it's
◼
►
it's such a pain and i never get it all
◼
►
it's like same thing with iced coffee
◼
►
you know i should die die if anything
◼
►
that's on my list of things that tries
◼
►
to start keeping some simple syrup in
◼
►
yes you can you carbonate simple syrup
◼
►
well the SodaStream warns you not to
◼
►
carbonate anything but plain water like
◼
►
you know me at first they just when you
◼
►
make soda with that they tell you to
◼
►
make the water first and then throw shit
◼
►
in later right because the presently
◼
►
they don't want to get sugar and stuff
◼
►
all up in the nozzle and have it all get
◼
►
you know infected but uh I really can
◼
►
you make the fizzy water and boil it or
◼
►
that would take all the carbonation of
◼
►
it it would probably take most of it out
◼
►
if it didn't take all of it out I
◼
►
whatever you you don't need you don't
◼
►
need to dissolve it in hot water just
◼
►
takes way longer in cold water
◼
►
I'm so you could try it but then like
◼
►
you know how long would it really stay
◼
►
I don't think I'd with the amount of
◼
►
water on putting into the old-fashioned
◼
►
I i'm willing to bet that it doesn't
◼
►
make a damn bit of difference so it's
◼
►
probably just me being a new you know
◼
►
thinking I'm being clever by using it
◼
►
but anyway just enough water model that
◼
►
up get that sugar cube is dissolved as
◼
►
you can get it put a whole bunch of big
◼
►
fist full of cracked ice in there two
◼
►
ounces of bourbon stir that thing for as
◼
►
long as you can bear to start just sit
◼
►
there and start for I don't know 30 40
◼
►
and that's it then strain it put in a
◼
►
glass with a big one big-ass Ice Cube
◼
►
and then orange peel lemon peel whatever
◼
►
you've gotten out some kind of citrus
◼
►
peel put it on top now how do you manage
◼
►
your you're naked fruits like what do
◼
►
you like i always say I I haven't yet
◼
►
gotten into the appeals part of it yet
◼
►
because like I'm not gonna like take
◼
►
part of lemon off and like what I do
◼
►
with the rest of that lemon you put in
◼
►
the fridge and then it is so eventually
◼
►
you have like you have like a half or
◼
►
fully naked lemon and the friends going
◼
►
out that like it just kinda you do i do
◼
►
yeah you know you end up throwing away
◼
►
some lemons i'll leave the oranges
◼
►
sometimes but I end up throwing some of
◼
►
that way if I was coughing a quarter
◼
►
each right now that I I effectively by
◼
►
an awful lot of citrus feud fruit that i
◼
►
only had only use for the rides if I
◼
►
could just buy fresh lemon and orange
◼
►
rinds i would i would do that but you
◼
►
can get dry ones that kind of ruins the
◼
►
yeah but this is another one this is
◼
►
another case where even a guy and I have
◼
►
really i do not have any kind of cooking
◼
►
aptitude I'm not I'm not I'm not good at
◼
►
I don't have the patience for it but
◼
►
i'll tell you what i think anybody any
◼
►
even a true clots in the kitchen can
◼
►
learn to make a world-class
◼
►
old-fashioned like an old-fashioned that
◼
►
does is good as anybody in the world can
◼
►
afford her or will make and it doesn't
◼
►
take anything more than you know
◼
►
twenty-dollar bourbon sugar cubes and
◼
►
and the lemon you can get at any
◼
►
supermarket or orange
◼
►
yeah i mean that's like I was so
◼
►
surprised when when I attempted to
◼
►
replicate these awesome old-fashioned
◼
►
we've been thinking about for two years
◼
►
and we had a new zealand i tend to
◼
►
replicate three days ago and just like
◼
►
my second try was perfect because it
◼
►
because it turns out they were just
◼
►
doing really good ingredients like they
◼
►
weren't doing any crazy special things
◼
►
like my like it was really easy to
◼
►
replicate that always get very very
◼
►
close to it because it is really that
◼
►
yeah and that's one thing to that
◼
►
Houston down there at the hiphopopotamus
◼
►
he was very very generous about his
◼
►
technique like once we found on over the
◼
►
drink and we started hectoring about it
◼
►
maybe it was almost conducting a clinic
◼
►
force each time he made one
◼
►
yeah and then we were having a make like
◼
►
8a time to fill it to satisfy our
◼
►
increasingly growing crowd that always
◼
►
just wanted those so it was we were
◼
►
constantly watching him make more of
◼
►
them so it was easy to pick up and i'm
◼
►
looking at amazon do you can get the
◼
►
feed brothers better i mean bitters is
◼
►
not as you're not gonna go bust building
◼
►
your little bitters collection at a
◼
►
bottle of few brothers is like 10 bucks
◼
►
and see my bottle of grape fruit was
◼
►
like 20 so i was i was a little on the
◼
►
fence about buying it but then I
◼
►
realized you know you only use like a
◼
►
drop at a time right a ya gotta say my
◼
►
Scrappy's grapefruit is really good does
◼
►
feed brothers offer a grapefruit they do
◼
►
they said they have orange level
◼
►
grapefruit and then the the aromatic
◼
►
they call it aromatic dangerous students
◼
►
to effectively Angostura I'll get us a
◼
►
they also cherry I've ever tried then in
◼
►
memory years when I finally go through
◼
►
this bottle of bitters maybe i'll have
◼
►
this next they have rhubarb bitters see
◼
►
I don't know what the hell that is
◼
►
it's it's it's one of those filler
◼
►
fruits they put in pies nobody likes
◼
►
peach bitters they've peach Aztec
◼
►
chocolate cocktail bitters with your
◼
►
brother says a lot of better so I
◼
►
haven't tried these fairly extensive
◼
►
yeah I don't know feat brothers has a
◼
►
website and we see before we sign off
◼
►
sorry at Brooklyn company doesn't say
◼
►
they do if they just I just took a gas
◼
►
anyway google it but it's a now they're
◼
►
in rochester rochester new york okay I
◼
►
got the state right at least you can go
◼
►
to feed brothers dot-com and and see
◼
►
more anyway they're great and it's it's
◼
►
according to wikipedia they offer
◼
►
vacuum-sealed venison flavored me that's
◼
►
it's it's funny that would do you know
◼
►
it's also specific it's perfect that
◼
►
we're doing this in at night time
◼
►
because that typical talk shows
◼
►
recording the daytime and it pairs well
◼
►
with the talks thing to that because to
◼
►
me start my day trying to make the best
◼
►
coffee I possibly can and at night you
◼
►
know make a perfect old-fashioned can't
◼
►
go wrong did go wrong against so easy
◼
►
we should get free brothers to sponsor
◼
►
the show and Buffalo Trace and buffalo
◼
►
alright Marco thank you very much for
◼
►
being it is a long show but i think is
◼
►
very thanks that is worth it