The Talk Show

00:00:00 ◼   ► this is a this is a special evening

00:00:02 ◼   ► edition of the talk show i guess this

00:00:05 ◼   ► week

00:00:06 ◼   ► Marco Arment why are you doing this

00:00:10 ◼   ► element again I'm trying to was so nice

00:00:14 ◼   ► i just felt so welcome when settlement

00:00:16 ◼   ► did that sound like you're sick i know i

00:00:19 ◼   ► can't do it i guess i don't know so i

00:00:22 ◼   ► think i've joined your club of people

00:00:25 ◼   ► who don't own any apple shares directly

00:00:26 ◼   ► you did own it before

00:00:28 ◼   ► until today I owned a good amount of

00:00:30 ◼   ► weight so you sold the hey I did

00:00:33 ◼   ► oh sounds crazy I know why I've sell oh

00:00:39 ◼   ► well I've I've been really good at

00:00:42 ◼   ► knowing when to buy I I really haven't

00:00:44 ◼   ► mastered the art of when to sell yet but

00:00:46 ◼   ► I have no I over the last couple years

00:00:48 ◼   ► of accumulated shares based on just like

00:00:50 ◼   ► putting a little bit of money into this

00:00:52 ◼   ► into my gambling fund every every month

00:00:54 ◼   ► or so and and just knowing when to buy

00:00:56 ◼   ► so i picked them up really cheap so i

00:00:59 ◼   ► came out actually pretty pretty ahead of

00:01:02 ◼   ► my average price is very low

00:01:03 ◼   ► it was like four of six or something

00:01:05 ◼   ► like that and i was waiting until

00:01:09 ◼   ► earnings call day figuring that they

00:01:11 ◼   ► would be a spike after the holiday

00:01:13 ◼   ► earnings call like there was last year

00:01:16 ◼   ► remember correctly that holiday orange

00:01:18 ◼   ► would be so good i'd figured there be a

00:01:20 ◼   ► spike and then i'd probably sell it all

00:01:22 ◼   ► cuz i kind of want to get out of owning

00:01:24 ◼   ► individual stocks I'm not I'm not that

00:01:27 ◼   ► great at it like I haven't haven't lost

00:01:30 ◼   ► any money with it overall but i haven't

00:01:32 ◼   ► made enough to make it worth the hassle

00:01:33 ◼   ► and i found that owning it was was

00:01:37 ◼   ► making it hard for me to objectively see

00:01:40 ◼   ► what's going on you know because it adds

00:01:43 ◼   ► it adds a lot of skin in the game for me

00:01:44 ◼   ► and I don't know if it's colored my my

00:01:48 ◼   ► opinion but I think it might've and so I

00:01:51 ◼   ► just wanted to get out of that for a lot

00:01:52 ◼   ► of the same reasons you said you don't

00:01:53 ◼   ► own individual shares also and you have

00:01:55 ◼   ► a bigger problem of course of possibly

00:01:57 ◼   ► being able to affect it

00:01:58 ◼   ► i don't--that's problem but but i might

00:02:00 ◼   ► someday you know that's the main thing

00:02:03 ◼   ► for me but it's actually a good point

00:02:05 ◼   ► that you make though about it

00:02:06 ◼   ► coloring your

00:02:07 ◼   ► objectivity you know I hate that word

00:02:10 ◼   ► but you know that when you personally

00:02:13 ◼   ► have skin in the game when it's your

00:02:14 ◼   ► money it's right there is more of an

00:02:15 ◼   ► emotional attachment and you know I

00:02:17 ◼   ► can't honestly say i don't have any

00:02:19 ◼   ► emotional attachment to apples success

00:02:22 ◼   ► in general period but not owning the

00:02:26 ◼   ► stock individually certainly makes that

00:02:28 ◼   ► easier so i sold today at like 462 which

00:02:35 ◼   ► is good i actually went down now it's a

00:02:37 ◼   ► 440 heat already

00:02:39 ◼   ► the reason i sold was because you know

00:02:42 ◼   ► last night of course it took a huge dip

00:02:44 ◼   ► after the run for released and and and

00:02:46 ◼   ► and some other people were disappointed

00:02:47 ◼   ► and and I realized that you know if this

00:02:51 ◼   ► was this is probably going to be for

00:02:54 ◼   ► Apple investor purposes the best news

00:02:56 ◼   ► day for the next six months in all

00:02:59 ◼   ► likelihood and the fact that it took

00:03:03 ◼   ► that big of a dive on what's probably

00:03:05 ◼   ► the best news day and for a while

00:03:08 ◼   ► that scared me and so I i feel you know

00:03:12 ◼   ► what let me get out now if I really want

00:03:14 ◼   ► to get back in a later date

00:03:16 ◼   ► I'll get back in on the upswing you know

00:03:17 ◼   ► I didn't want it i was tired of writing

00:03:20 ◼   ► it down and you know cuz i always feel

00:03:23 ◼   ► like buying individual stocks as a

00:03:26 ◼   ► casual investors kind of a sucker's game

00:03:28 ◼   ► like the whole system there's there's

00:03:30 ◼   ► all these big investors are so much

00:03:31 ◼   ► bigger than us and all these

00:03:33 ◼   ► complexities and derivatives and options

00:03:35 ◼   ► and everything that are just way above

00:03:37 ◼   ► my head and I just felt kind of like a

00:03:40 ◼   ► sucker playing this game so i wanted to

00:03:42 ◼   ► get out figured this was a good time and

00:03:44 ◼   ► I figure you know cuz what's going to

00:03:46 ◼   ► happen over the next few months of the

00:03:47 ◼   ► stock price i don't see a lot of reasons

00:03:49 ◼   ► for it to go up if it went down for this

00:03:51 ◼   ► you know so I don't know that being said

00:03:54 ◼   ► of course disclaimer this is not

00:03:55 ◼   ► financial advice that I don't learn

00:03:56 ◼   ► talking about but you know I student now

00:04:00 ◼   ► that I got out of it I kind of already

00:04:01 ◼   ► feel free from that burden of having to

00:04:05 ◼   ► think about that having to babysit that

00:04:07 ◼   ► asset and one of the things about it is

00:04:09 ◼   ► you know for objectivity you know for me

00:04:15 ◼   ► I don't

00:04:16 ◼   ► have to now worried about what everyone

00:04:18 ◼   ► else thinks about Apple because with the

00:04:21 ◼   ► when you own the stock you have to worry

00:04:24 ◼   ► about the public as a whole like voting

00:04:26 ◼   ► for that company at with confidence or

00:04:29 ◼   ► the wall street voting with their

00:04:30 ◼   ► confidence in this company right and

00:04:32 ◼   ► we've seen time and time again I mean

00:04:34 ◼   ► you can make this your specialty time

00:04:37 ◼   ► and time again seeing that these odd

00:04:39 ◼   ► disconnects between actual apple

00:04:42 ◼   ► prospects and products and success and

00:04:45 ◼   ► what a lot of people in the press think

00:04:47 ◼   ► about it and I'm just so tired of having

00:04:50 ◼   ► to worry about that disconnect as

00:04:53 ◼   ► something that will directly affect me

00:04:55 ◼   ► so that's that's the biggest reason I

00:04:57 ◼   ► wanted to get out was that I realized

00:04:59 ◼   ► that I can be happy

00:05:01 ◼   ► owning apple products developing the act

00:05:03 ◼   ► in the apple ecosystem you know being

00:05:05 ◼   ► involved with Apple choosing these

00:05:07 ◼   ► things for myself without regard to what

00:05:10 ◼   ► the market as a whole thinks because

00:05:12 ◼   ► they're so often so far from what I

00:05:14 ◼   ► think

00:05:16 ◼   ► yeah i totally feel the same way I don't

00:05:19 ◼   ► have any regrets over not owning apple

00:05:21 ◼   ► stock and especially like for example I

00:05:24 ◼   ► I even linked to a thing today pointing

00:05:28 ◼   ► out that from 2007-2009 that the apple

00:05:31 ◼   ► stock took a huge dive and proud of that

00:05:33 ◼   ► obviously was that the whole economy was

00:05:35 ◼   ► in tailspin with the you know financial

00:05:37 ◼   ► institutions collapse but if ever there

00:05:39 ◼   ► was a time when like if the argument now

00:05:42 ◼   ► is that the reason that Apple stock is

00:05:45 ◼   ► is going down and has gone down so

00:05:47 ◼   ► severely last few months is that the

00:05:49 ◼   ► growth is over growth growth growth

00:05:51 ◼   ► future growth future growth is all that

00:05:53 ◼   ► matters is what the people who are

00:05:55 ◼   ► saying no no that the market is actually

00:05:57 ◼   ► treating apple right and i'm the fan boy

00:06:00 ◼   ► whose you know digging for an excuse to

00:06:03 ◼   ► support my beloved Apple well then

00:06:06 ◼   ► surely 2008-2009 with time when the

00:06:11 ◼   ► stock should have been roaring because

00:06:12 ◼   ► all the growth was ahead of it right the

00:06:14 ◼   ► the iphone was out it was obviously

00:06:16 ◼   ► going to grow it was anybody had two

00:06:19 ◼   ► clues about what was going on mobile you

00:06:22 ◼   ► know could see that this thing had a

00:06:24 ◼   ► unbelievably tremendous future and what

00:06:27 ◼   ► probably not that far off from Steve

00:06:30 ◼   ► Jobs boasts that it was five years ahead

00:06:31 ◼   ► of the competition right 2000 circuit

00:06:33 ◼   ► 2007a android was I think everybody

00:06:37 ◼   ► would agree now is dog shit

00:06:38 ◼   ► oh yeah I'm the people who bought it

00:06:40 ◼   ► like I like what back then i would go to

00:06:42 ◼   ► Alzheimer's investor things and so of

00:06:44 ◼   ► course all the investors always have the

00:06:45 ◼   ► brand newest phone possible and so I'm i

00:06:48 ◼   ► remember the first time I saw the

00:06:50 ◼   ► tmobile was the g1 the first android

00:06:52 ◼   ► phone yeah that was a brown or am i

00:06:54 ◼   ► think it was relaxed

00:06:55 ◼   ► that's the soon yeah it was it wasn't

00:06:58 ◼   ► you know the black like you know it's

00:06:59 ◼   ► like able to hang and yeah it was weird

00:07:02 ◼   ► and even even this guy who just bought

00:07:04 ◼   ► it was so happy to show off his oh yeah

00:07:06 ◼   ► it's a piece of trash even he knew that

00:07:08 ◼   ► I must have I think it was at south by

00:07:11 ◼   ► southwest and so it might have been i

00:07:15 ◼   ► think that that that g one came out at

00:07:18 ◼   ► the end of 2008 so it was probably March

00:07:20 ◼   ► 2009 so again nice i think 2008-2009 is

00:07:24 ◼   ► when if if growth was really what the

00:07:27 ◼   ► market value future growth then that's

00:07:30 ◼   ► when that stock should have been

00:07:31 ◼   ► shooting up and wasn't I Merlin Mann had

00:07:34 ◼   ► one and swore by it i don't know how

00:07:37 ◼   ► long he's 12

00:07:38 ◼   ► yeah I swear to God and I remember this

00:07:40 ◼   ► distinctly it'sit's South by Southwest

00:07:42 ◼   ► 2009 and it's daytime mean I was

00:07:47 ◼   ► probably late afternoon private cocktail

00:07:48 ◼   ► but i mean i still remember it was

00:07:50 ◼   ► daytime because it was at the four

00:07:52 ◼   ► seasons in austin and four seasons as a

00:07:55 ◼   ► lot of Windows and so I like times that

00:07:58 ◼   ► I'm there they've been there in the

00:07:59 ◼   ► daylight I remember it being daytime and

00:08:02 ◼   ► it was me and Merlin and Michael lop and

00:08:06 ◼   ► I've never seen that the g1 before

00:08:09 ◼   ► Merlin showed it to me and it was just

00:08:10 ◼   ► so awful and and michael looked at and

00:08:15 ◼   ► Michael was so repulsed like he didn't

00:08:16 ◼   ► even want to touch it

00:08:17 ◼   ► I mean he was like really like grossed

00:08:19 ◼   ► out like like maybe he acted honestly he

00:08:22 ◼   ► was he was trying to not be you know how

00:08:25 ◼   ► like if your ear as an adult not as a

00:08:27 ◼   ► kid but as an adult if you go somewhere

00:08:29 ◼   ► you served some food that you're not

00:08:30 ◼   ► going to eat you're just gonna go move

00:08:32 ◼   ► it around your plate and not say

00:08:33 ◼   ► anything and just be polite about it but

00:08:35 ◼   ► you know

00:08:35 ◼   ► that's what Michael was like he was like

00:08:38 ◼   ► moving around this plate like but there

00:08:40 ◼   ► is no way he was gonna actually try it

00:08:41 ◼   ► and Merlin was given us this explanation

00:08:44 ◼   ► for what he found appealing about it and

00:08:46 ◼   ► you know I think it has something to do

00:08:47 ◼   ► with gmail that you know maybe the gmail

00:08:49 ◼   ► app did something that I that's the

00:08:51 ◼   ► connection you know there was some kind

00:08:53 ◼   ► of way that you can make an argument

00:08:54 ◼   ► that it did something pretty good you

00:08:56 ◼   ► know maybe gmail and i don't know i

00:08:58 ◼   ► guess probably did pretty good job with

00:09:00 ◼   ► your google calendar right

00:09:01 ◼   ► out-of-the-box even back then but

00:09:03 ◼   ► Michael was just an FYI didn't know what

00:09:06 ◼   ► to say Michael was just like ultimately

00:09:08 ◼   ► it's just like wait just but stop stop

00:09:10 ◼   ► just look at it i mean--and and even

00:09:14 ◼   ► Merlin who was high on the thing at the

00:09:16 ◼   ► time he was like and he might have been

00:09:17 ◼   ► high on something else I don't know but

00:09:19 ◼   ► I it was like yeah you do have a point

00:09:21 ◼   ► anyway that's when the stock should have

00:09:24 ◼   ► been shooting up and it wasn't it's

00:09:25 ◼   ► never really been that that related to

00:09:28 ◼   ► reality

00:09:29 ◼   ► well just get it also introduced on on

00:09:33 ◼   ► any kind of you know present value of

00:09:36 ◼   ► the company's products that you know and

00:09:38 ◼   ► and prospects to and just like there's

00:09:40 ◼   ► so much external force on it you know

00:09:43 ◼   ► with you know as you said like that

00:09:45 ◼   ► whole period when the stock was tanking

00:09:47 ◼   ► because the whole market was tanking

00:09:48 ◼   ► there's all those external factors so

00:09:50 ◼   ► even when the company was doing

00:09:52 ◼   ► fantastically with new products and

00:09:53 ◼   ► showing tons of signs of growth the

00:09:55 ◼   ► whole market was so bad that the stock

00:09:57 ◼   ► price stock anyway and you know now

00:09:59 ◼   ► we're seeing kind of other problems of

00:10:02 ◼   ► well you know they might be reaching

00:10:04 ◼   ► saturation in some places they might be

00:10:06 ◼   ► you know you know they can't possibly

00:10:08 ◼   ► keep growing their growing a year ago

00:10:10 ◼   ► today would be the other will be more

00:10:12 ◼   ► money from the world has to invest in

00:10:13 ◼   ► them like there's there's all sorts of

00:10:15 ◼   ► of external factors now that they're

00:10:17 ◼   ► running into that are being problematic

00:10:19 ◼   ► for the stock price even though the

00:10:21 ◼   ► company seems like they're in really

00:10:23 ◼   ► great shape right and i just want to

00:10:25 ◼   ► stay here as use those anybody's

00:10:27 ◼   ► listening to this show extemporaneous

00:10:29 ◼   ► Lee you know and then the next day or

00:10:31 ◼   ► two after it comes out is going to know

00:10:32 ◼   ► the context of what we're talking about

00:10:33 ◼   ► but the the shows are always up there

00:10:35 ◼   ► forever and people listened to him just

00:10:38 ◼   ► for historical context we're recording

00:10:40 ◼   ► this on the evening of

00:10:42 ◼   ► the 24th January 2013 and yesterday

00:10:46 ◼   ► apple reported their results for the

00:10:48 ◼   ► holiday quarter on the stock their stock

00:10:52 ◼   ► opened today at like five hundred and

00:10:54 ◼   ► ten bucks a share and it closed at 450

00:10:57 ◼   ► so the biggest single biggest company in

00:11:00 ◼   ► the world by market cap lost 12 over

00:11:05 ◼   ► twelve percent of its value in a single

00:11:08 ◼   ► day on an earnings report that that

00:11:11 ◼   ► completed a record-breaking not for the

00:11:15 ◼   ► company but for any company in history

00:11:17 ◼   ► the single-most profitable year in

00:11:18 ◼   ► history with still growing revenue and

00:11:23 ◼   ► really I guess ultimately when it comes

00:11:25 ◼   ► down to it you'd go through all the

00:11:27 ◼   ► numbers the one thing that has dropped

00:11:29 ◼   ► is their profit margins which has

00:11:33 ◼   ► dropped from like astronomically high

00:11:35 ◼   ► forty-five to fifty percent a year ago

00:11:38 ◼   ► to still remarkably high like 36 or 37

00:11:43 ◼   ► 38 percent for a hardware company which

00:11:47 ◼   ► is higher than software companies more

00:11:49 ◼   ► margin margins like Microsoft's and

00:11:52 ◼   ► Google's but because those because those

00:11:55 ◼   ► margins are shrinking their earnings

00:11:58 ◼   ► profits whatever you want to call it net

00:11:59 ◼   ► income is shrinking year-over-year for

00:12:03 ◼   ► the first time since 2003 even though

00:12:05 ◼   ► we're talking about numbers like nine

00:12:08 ◼   ► ten billion dollars per quarter in

00:12:10 ◼   ► earnings and profit so it is not it's

00:12:13 ◼   ► not like hey it was entirely good news

00:12:15 ◼   ► the growth is still there

00:12:17 ◼   ► ah but the the market reaction to it is

00:12:20 ◼   ► absolutely ridiculous i think i would

00:12:23 ◼   ► love to know and I just this is the sort

00:12:25 ◼   ► of thing I googled for and couldn't find

00:12:26 ◼   ► anything and I guess you know I after

00:12:28 ◼   ► i'm sure there's a way to figure it out

00:12:30 ◼   ► but I'm trying to figure out if like the

00:12:32 ◼   ► biggest company in the world

00:12:35 ◼   ► whatever the biggest company in the

00:12:36 ◼   ► world as you know it was Exxon before

00:12:38 ◼   ► like 2005 it was General Electric you

00:12:40 ◼   ► know the title passes every couple years

00:12:42 ◼   ► has there ever been a company at the top

00:12:47 ◼   ► of the currently biggest market cap who

00:12:50 ◼   ► so volatile stock the stock price as

00:12:53 ◼   ► Apple is like a question right like

00:12:56 ◼   ► talking about the stocks that we own

00:12:59 ◼   ► I buy my own like ninety seven dollars

00:13:03 ◼   ► I swear it's like 97 was more than a

00:13:05 ◼   ► little bit more now but of serious or XM

00:13:10 ◼   ► I don't know which ones I was like three

00:13:11 ◼   ► cents

00:13:12 ◼   ► yeah it was like there was a time when

00:13:14 ◼   ► they were like on the couple years ago

00:13:16 ◼   ► they were like on a customer going

00:13:17 ◼   ► bankrupt enemy is my friend Paul

00:13:19 ◼   ► Colossus and I run and he pointed it out

00:13:21 ◼   ► to me on aim it was like hey you know

00:13:23 ◼   ► like I forget which one is the company

00:13:25 ◼   ► now it will be merged into serious so

00:13:27 ◼   ► it's serious why so serious i didn't

00:13:29 ◼   ► know so it's called Sirius XM guys they

00:13:31 ◼   ► kept both things so I and they were

00:13:34 ◼   ► seriously trading it like three cents a

00:13:35 ◼   ► share or something like that and I was

00:13:39 ◼   ► and I have it I have instead is one of

00:13:42 ◼   ► those like this is how I make

00:13:43 ◼   ► investments i have XM in the car and

00:13:46 ◼   ► it's all we ever listen to in the car

00:13:48 ◼   ► and I'm happy to pay whatever it is they

00:13:51 ◼   ► charged me a month that seems like i'm

00:13:52 ◼   ► getting a good value for something that

00:13:55 ◼   ► I enjoy it works very well so I thought

00:13:57 ◼   ► well that doesn't make any sense that

00:13:59 ◼   ► they would be going bankrupt this seems

00:14:00 ◼   ► like a good deal

00:14:01 ◼   ► it seems like every car i see nowadays

00:14:03 ◼   ► has the goofy little antenna on the roof

00:14:05 ◼   ► for it they have just bought out their

00:14:07 ◼   ► competitors they don't have any

00:14:08 ◼   ► competition i'm gonna buy them because i

00:14:10 ◼   ► don't see how this is gonna go anywhere

00:14:12 ◼   ► without but my each I'm not an investor

00:14:14 ◼   ► I don't keep a lot of money there my

00:14:15 ◼   ► etrade account I swear to God had like

00:14:17 ◼   ► twenty seven dollars or something like

00:14:19 ◼   ► that in it so i just bought as many

00:14:21 ◼   ► shares as I could I don't know what it

00:14:23 ◼   ► was maybe it was like 11 cents a share

00:14:24 ◼   ► so i bought a decent number of shares

00:14:27 ◼   ► you probably paid ten bucks to buy him

00:14:29 ◼   ► yeah yeah I did I think like the the 999

00:14:32 ◼   ► transaction fee took up a lot of it and

00:14:35 ◼   ► lo and behold I forget what its trading

00:14:37 ◼   ► and let me see it three dollars in nine

00:14:39 ◼   ► cents so I've made money on it but i

00:14:41 ◼   ► only started with like I don't know ice

00:14:44 ◼   ► literally like twenty dollars i mean

00:14:45 ◼   ► it's it was the equivalent of like when

00:14:48 ◼   ► you're in college and you you you know

00:14:50 ◼   ► where the mac with the ATM machines were

00:14:52 ◼   ► that let you take out ten dollars

00:14:54 ◼   ► instead of 20 because you only have

00:14:56 ◼   ► eighteen dollars in your account

00:14:57 ◼   ► yeah i lost like nine nine dollars like

00:15:00 ◼   ► thirty three percent of the trade on the

00:15:02 ◼   ► train

00:15:02 ◼   ► action and got like twenty dollars worth

00:15:04 ◼   ► of this document it's gone way up

00:15:06 ◼   ► that's like the only individual stock I

00:15:07 ◼   ► oh and now you can you can sell it and

00:15:09 ◼   ► maybe maybe buy an ipad mini smart cover

00:15:12 ◼   ► with the proceeds

00:15:13 ◼   ► yeah something like that but so let's

00:15:20 ◼   ► talk like that though I guess stock of a

00:15:22 ◼   ► company that is selling it at eleven

00:15:25 ◼   ► cents a share or something like that

00:15:26 ◼   ► well you expect it may be to have one

00:15:28 ◼   ► day when it goes up or down fifteen

00:15:29 ◼   ► percent twenty percent because it only

00:15:31 ◼   ► takes ten cents for it to go up fifty

00:15:33 ◼   ► percent the biggest company in the world

00:15:35 ◼   ► I'd it doesn't make any sense to me that

00:15:38 ◼   ► they would either go up or down twelve

00:15:41 ◼   ► percent in one day based on a quarter

00:15:44 ◼   ► where what they announced was really not

00:15:46 ◼   ► that far removed from what everybody was

00:15:49 ◼   ► expecting

00:15:50 ◼   ► yeah I mean and that's one of the

00:15:51 ◼   ► reasons why I wanted to get out of

00:15:53 ◼   ► owning that stock is because it is just

00:15:56 ◼   ► so incredibly volatile and and I was

00:15:59 ◼   ► just tired of of the stress of and and

00:16:01 ◼   ► kind of the frustration every day of

00:16:03 ◼   ► like you know what is the market

00:16:05 ◼   ► thinking with this it shouldn't be doing

00:16:07 ◼   ► this so you know things like that and

00:16:08 ◼   ► it's just I don't need that in my life

00:16:10 ◼   ► anymore like I I realized like the money

00:16:13 ◼   ► I made on that over the last couple

00:16:15 ◼   ► years since i've started buying the

00:16:17 ◼   ► shares I made you know some money on it

00:16:21 ◼   ► but i would have been probably better

00:16:22 ◼   ► served just ignoring that completely and

00:16:26 ◼   ► redirecting that effort and time and

00:16:28 ◼   ► stress capacity into another business or

00:16:31 ◼   ► another podcast or a few more blog posts

00:16:33 ◼   ► or something else like doing anything

00:16:35 ◼   ► else would have been a better choice for

00:16:38 ◼   ► me then then boring what Apple stock

00:16:40 ◼   ► every week

00:16:41 ◼   ► yeah this comes up for me a lot because

00:16:43 ◼   ► I mean and I I don't blame people i

00:16:45 ◼   ► really don't because I don't expect

00:16:46 ◼   ► expect that the vast majority of people

00:16:48 ◼   ► who either list well maybe listen to my

00:16:50 ◼   ► show they're more regulars but I

00:16:51 ◼   ► certainly understand that people who

00:16:53 ◼   ► read my website an awful lot of them are

00:16:55 ◼   ► not regular readers they just come there

00:16:57 ◼   ► when somebody else links to something or

00:16:59 ◼   ► they'll they'll think to check in 110

00:17:00 ◼   ► hit-and-runs and so you know i think a

00:17:05 ◼   ► lot of people probably if they had to

00:17:06 ◼   ► guess would think that I do own apple

00:17:08 ◼   ► and so like on weeks like this where i

00:17:10 ◼   ► spend a lot of time and effort writing

00:17:12 ◼   ► about the stock i'll get a handful of

00:17:14 ◼   ► emails asking

00:17:15 ◼   ► really almost always very politely just

00:17:17 ◼   ► curious not accusation will not you know

00:17:20 ◼   ► any kind of confrontation but just

00:17:21 ◼   ► curious like hey do you own apple stock

00:17:23 ◼   ► and then you know I have a I don't think

00:17:25 ◼   ► i have a text expander state but if i do

00:17:27 ◼   ► have forgotten but you know i have a

00:17:28 ◼   ► you'd short answer that no I feel like I

00:17:31 ◼   ► shouldn't because it's a conflict of

00:17:32 ◼   ► interest and sometimes I write back and

00:17:34 ◼   ► say wow that's good to know

00:17:36 ◼   ► boy that must be frustrating for you

00:17:38 ◼   ► because I'm sure you would have wanted

00:17:39 ◼   ► to buy it you know back when it was $72

00:17:42 ◼   ► and share and in 2008 and man look at

00:17:46 ◼   ► that now I and I honestly don't have

00:17:49 ◼   ► that thought at all like i am the type

00:17:51 ◼   ► of person who if I were by playing a

00:17:54 ◼   ► casino game and I was betting black on

00:17:56 ◼   ► rely on Betterlife but if I was betting

00:17:58 ◼   ► black and I got up and left and notice

00:18:00 ◼   ► that black just 14 in a row i would

00:18:02 ◼   ► think

00:18:02 ◼   ► dammit I shouldn't you know I should've

00:18:04 ◼   ► stayed there I don't have that any any

00:18:06 ◼   ► kind of feeling like that with apple

00:18:07 ◼   ► because I feel like I've done very well

00:18:09 ◼   ► with apples success my own way you know

00:18:11 ◼   ► that that that my website has become so

00:18:14 ◼   ► popular people are interested in it and

00:18:17 ◼   ► and you know I I have no complaints

00:18:18 ◼   ► about the success I've enjoyed on in

00:18:22 ◼   ► some sense on Apple's back over the last

00:18:24 ◼   ► 10 years I don't need it also to be in

00:18:27 ◼   ► the stock market right and if that was a

00:18:29 ◼   ► risk to your credibility than it would

00:18:31 ◼   ► really not be worth exactly know that's

00:18:34 ◼   ► a perfect point where it's actually in

00:18:36 ◼   ► some sense it would be worse where I

00:18:37 ◼   ► feel like being able to say you know

00:18:40 ◼   ► being in that you know successful

00:18:43 ◼   ► situation i am with my website right now

00:18:45 ◼   ► and being able to say i don't own the

00:18:47 ◼   ► stock i have no relationship with them

00:18:48 ◼   ► and I know I've they don't give me money

00:18:50 ◼   ► they don't pay for my trips to come to

00:18:52 ◼   ► their events or anything is worth more

00:18:55 ◼   ► to me

00:18:57 ◼   ► overall I mean I can't put a price tag

00:18:58 ◼   ► on that but it's worth more to me inside

00:19:01 ◼   ► my head then then it would be if i put i

00:19:04 ◼   ► don't know whatever number thousand

00:19:06 ◼   ► dollars i could have theoretically put

00:19:07 ◼   ► into the stock when I thought it was

00:19:09 ◼   ► incredibly long I wonder you know what

00:19:12 ◼   ► what effect having like a bad six months

00:19:15 ◼   ► of of the stock like what effect that

00:19:16 ◼   ► has the company and I think you know

00:19:18 ◼   ► financially apples doing very well for

00:19:21 ◼   ► themselves they have a massive pile of

00:19:22 ◼   ► cash you know that's that all seems well

00:19:24 ◼   ► and good and they don't seem affected by

00:19:26 ◼   ► that I think Tim Cook is putting on a

00:19:28 ◼   ► good

00:19:28 ◼   ► the good face for two and i don't think

00:19:31 ◼   ► he has like no job security to worry

00:19:33 ◼   ► about 40 for a long time but you know

00:19:37 ◼   ► might be a problem for retaining talent

00:19:40 ◼   ► I I wonder I that's the sort of thing

00:19:44 ◼   ► where it's a and I'm a little in over my

00:19:46 ◼   ► head but I wonder like how much Apple

00:19:48 ◼   ► like our options still a thing for

00:19:50 ◼   ► retain retaining talent at an apple

00:19:54 ◼   ► I mean and like you know they can always

00:19:55 ◼   ► reprice them like they did with jobs

00:19:57 ◼   ► that whole problem I i assume again i'm

00:20:00 ◼   ► also weighed in way over my head with

00:20:01 ◼   ► the legalities of what they can do here

00:20:03 ◼   ► but you know they they could like spend

00:20:06 ◼   ► more money i assume to make the options

00:20:08 ◼   ► worth more to their existing employees

00:20:10 ◼   ► but I have to imagine this must hurt

00:20:12 ◼   ► morale for people who have a meaningful

00:20:15 ◼   ► number of stock options or meaningful

00:20:17 ◼   ► matter of compensation tied to the stock

00:20:19 ◼   ► price and some other way and either that

00:20:22 ◼   ► probably aren't a whole lot of people

00:20:23 ◼   ► who have that situation but i don't know

00:20:25 ◼   ► you know this could be a problem like if

00:20:28 ◼   ► they start losing mid-level or even

00:20:30 ◼   ► upper level VP's that could really be

00:20:33 ◼   ► problematic and I feel like Apple

00:20:37 ◼   ► already has

00:20:38 ◼   ► they already have a problem retaining

00:20:40 ◼   ► talent because from what I see I'm grant

00:20:44 ◼   ► this is based on no research accept

00:20:45 ◼   ► people like people I see and know and

00:20:47 ◼   ► read about but it seems like you know

00:20:50 ◼   ► Apple has created this awesome ecosystem

00:20:54 ◼   ► especially with iOS someone with the mac

00:20:57 ◼   ► but mostly with iOS is awesome software

00:20:59 ◼   ► ecosystem and they have lost a lot of

00:21:03 ◼   ► good people over the last few years who

00:21:05 ◼   ► have gone out and done there on iOS

00:21:07 ◼   ► startups and and that all that is

00:21:10 ◼   ► probably a pretty big talent retention

00:21:13 ◼   ► problem alone and so I I feel like if

00:21:15 ◼   ► you add any factors to that if you add

00:21:18 ◼   ► in things like options being worth a lot

00:21:20 ◼   ► less than they were before that could be

00:21:22 ◼   ► really bad for them

00:21:24 ◼   ► yeah and i don't i think it is a

00:21:27 ◼   ► different I don't think Microsoft had

00:21:30 ◼   ► this problem in Windows heyday because

00:21:32 ◼   ► obviously there were

00:21:34 ◼   ► the success of windows created a

00:21:36 ◼   ► inordinate number of programming jobs

00:21:39 ◼   ► developer jobs but I don't think it

00:21:41 ◼   ► created this sort of jobs where somebody

00:21:46 ◼   ► could leave Apple and and either be

00:21:48 ◼   ► guaranteed a lot of money or have the

00:21:50 ◼   ► opportunity as like a founder to to make

00:21:55 ◼   ► a lot of money it wasn't like a start-up

00:21:57 ◼   ► types thing you know the the first real

00:22:00 ◼   ► startup thing for developers was the web

00:22:02 ◼   ► not windows right and the web it was

00:22:05 ◼   ► hard to make money on the web so it

00:22:07 ◼   ► wasn't quite as much of a gold rush

00:22:09 ◼   ► mentality of oh my god i'm missing out

00:22:10 ◼   ► on everything going on the web right now

00:22:12 ◼   ► because i'm working for some big company

00:22:14 ◼   ► right and it wasn't the sort of thing

00:22:17 ◼   ► that step that that sprang completely

00:22:21 ◼   ► from one company where writers this well

00:22:25 ◼   ► I mean unsurprisingly there's an

00:22:28 ◼   ► enormous well of iOS development talent

00:22:30 ◼   ► in apple like people who are really good

00:22:34 ◼   ► you would I OS now well just thinking

00:22:37 ◼   ► about the friends that I that you know a

00:22:39 ◼   ► lot of a mutual friend of mine in yours

00:22:40 ◼   ► but friends we have who work there I

00:22:43 ◼   ► mean they're they're you know they're a

00:22:45 ◼   ► plus people and no surprise i'm sure

00:22:50 ◼   ► that you know that that they're on the

00:22:52 ◼   ► you know but probably dealing with those

00:22:54 ◼   ► recruiter pitches and a regular basis

00:22:56 ◼   ► you have a problem to with with

00:22:58 ◼   ► retaining these people is if the growth

00:23:01 ◼   ► is slowing down then Apple is going to

00:23:05 ◼   ► lose some of its reputation of being a

00:23:07 ◼   ► place where the cutting edge is

00:23:08 ◼   ► happening and and that also like that

00:23:11 ◼   ► that dampening of that even though i'm

00:23:15 ◼   ► sure there are there are still a lot of

00:23:16 ◼   ► you know exciting things to do an apple

00:23:19 ◼   ► that's what that even a slight dampening

00:23:22 ◼   ► and that is going to also amplify people

00:23:25 ◼   ► desire to leave and go to eat or

00:23:27 ◼   ► something more exciting or their own

00:23:28 ◼   ► startup yeah and I do think that that is

00:23:31 ◼   ► part of the appeal that Apple has for

00:23:34 ◼   ► top-notch talent is sort of sense that

00:23:36 ◼   ► this that's the show that's where the

00:23:39 ◼   ► best people go

00:23:41 ◼   ► I you know that you're not really

00:23:45 ◼   ► pushing yourself if you haven't

00:23:47 ◼   ► tried taking a job at apple yet right

00:23:50 ◼   ► and you know that's an exaggeration but

00:23:52 ◼   ► that that spelling it out like that kind

00:23:55 ◼   ► of sounds a little preposterous but i

00:23:57 ◼   ► think that that's a a I don't know what

00:24:00 ◼   ► you want to call it at an undercurrent

00:24:02 ◼   ► in our industry that that people get you

00:24:07 ◼   ► know that when you know when you're here

00:24:09 ◼   ► because you know in addition to them to

00:24:11 ◼   ► people from Apple leaving Apple to go to

00:24:13 ◼   ► start you do we do know a lot of mutual

00:24:15 ◼   ► friends who've been independent and then

00:24:17 ◼   ► gone to apple you know you understand

00:24:19 ◼   ► the draw of it is not entirely financial

00:24:21 ◼   ► a lot of it is that all of a sudden

00:24:23 ◼   ► you've got an opportunity to maybe do

00:24:27 ◼   ► the best work of your life you know and

00:24:29 ◼   ► certainly the work that might reach the

00:24:31 ◼   ► most people or order to just have more

00:24:34 ◼   ► control over what you do like an apple

00:24:36 ◼   ► you might be working on you know some

00:24:38 ◼   ► some feature of some little used app

00:24:41 ◼   ► that you know if you if you want to be

00:24:45 ◼   ► like a big product person and have your

00:24:47 ◼   ► own control over what you do over I can

00:24:49 ◼   ► make an entire app yourself or with one

00:24:52 ◼   ► of the person some people and apple can

00:24:54 ◼   ► do that most can't and even the ones

00:24:56 ◼   ► that do you usually can't put their name

00:24:58 ◼   ► on it right now nobody gets to put our

00:25:01 ◼   ► name on it really right I was anybody is

00:25:04 ◼   ► there anybody that with all the keynotes

00:25:06 ◼   ► yeah but that's really the only at the

00:25:09 ◼   ► exactly the handful of sand as he

00:25:11 ◼   ► pleases yeah and even then I wondered

00:25:13 ◼   ► because you know like there's a lot more

00:25:15 ◼   ► executives than those who get to go on

00:25:16 ◼   ► stage right it's a very short list

00:25:19 ◼   ► I wonder though you know in the past it

00:25:23 ◼   ► was always easy to pick which company

00:25:26 ◼   ► was like the place that especially like

00:25:30 ◼   ► programmers right out of college or you

00:25:32 ◼   ► know people who who were really good and

00:25:34 ◼   ► who would get noticed publicly and be

00:25:36 ◼   ► you know be a Pope's by somebody like

00:25:39 ◼   ► what was the company everyone wanted to

00:25:42 ◼   ► work for so i think when I left college

00:25:45 ◼   ► and 2004 sorry when I house colleagues

00:25:49 ◼   ► in 2004 that company was google and it

00:25:53 ◼   ► remained indisputably google for a while

00:25:58 ◼   ► maybe until around 2009 even even maybe

00:26:00 ◼   ► 2010 and and then Google started getting

00:26:05 ◼   ► big and boring and then I think Apple

00:26:08 ◼   ► was that company starting around iphone

00:26:11 ◼   ► time i think or maybe even a little bit

00:26:12 ◼   ► before Apple became that company for a

00:26:15 ◼   ► lot of people and it was never quite as

00:26:18 ◼   ► prevalent in that role as Google was for

00:26:20 ◼   ► so long but it certainly was there too

00:26:23 ◼   ► to a large extent i wonder how much that

00:26:26 ◼   ► is fading now but it seems like Google

00:26:29 ◼   ► is not going upwards in that direction

00:26:32 ◼   ► Google's still going downwards of you

00:26:34 ◼   ► know being an interesting place for

00:26:35 ◼   ► cutting-edge people to want to work so

00:26:39 ◼   ► now though I don't really see a start-up

00:26:41 ◼   ► in a facebook might have briefly had a

00:26:43 ◼   ► little bit of that maybe two years ago

00:26:45 ◼   ► but i don't really see what companies

00:26:47 ◼   ► replacing that I think maybe what's

00:26:49 ◼   ► replacing that is just doing your own

00:26:50 ◼   ► startup for for this for this era you

00:26:53 ◼   ► know maybe for this five-year period

00:26:55 ◼   ► yeah i think so and I think Facebook's a

00:26:57 ◼   ► good example where I mean and I add I'm

00:27:00 ◼   ► probably really I'm qualified to speak

00:27:02 ◼   ► about it because I've always found

00:27:03 ◼   ► facebook distasteful I mean that still

00:27:05 ◼   ► have never signed up for the thing but I

00:27:10 ◼   ► I don't know that anybody you know let's

00:27:12 ◼   ► say two years ago three years ago maybe

00:27:14 ◼   ► when Facebook will head peak draw for

00:27:16 ◼   ► talent i think it was entirely about the

00:27:19 ◼   ► anticipation of them having a big IPO

00:27:21 ◼   ► and that you could join even late in the

00:27:24 ◼   ► game and make a lot of dough

00:27:25 ◼   ► I not because boy they're putting out

00:27:29 ◼   ► the best software in the world

00:27:30 ◼   ► yeah I think you're right you know like

00:27:32 ◼   ► nobody really thinks about it as great

00:27:34 ◼   ► software you know even Microsoft because

00:27:37 ◼   ► in the nineties it was always was

00:27:39 ◼   ► definitely microsoft you know and

00:27:40 ◼   ► Microsoft had a run on their stock

00:27:43 ◼   ► throughout the nineties that was just

00:27:46 ◼   ► tremendous I mean there's it was like a

00:27:48 ◼   ► free no phrase microsoft millionaires

00:27:50 ◼   ► you know that there were teams are or i

00:27:52 ◼   ► guess it was almost you know it was like

00:27:57 ◼   ► a weird social thing where that you'd be

00:27:59 ◼   ► at Microsoft on a team of six people and

00:28:01 ◼   ► to the people would be like like

00:28:03 ◼   ► multi-millionaires because they've been

00:28:05 ◼   ► there for three four five years and the

00:28:07 ◼   ► other for people who maybe we're only

00:28:09 ◼   ► there two years with nothing but their

00:28:11 ◼   ► salary and options that had invested yet

00:28:14 ◼   ► no but you are surrounded by people who

00:28:15 ◼   ► were like not just ok if you add up my

00:28:18 ◼   ► net worth yes it's a little bit over a

00:28:20 ◼   ► million a millionaire but they were like

00:28:22 ◼   ► millionaire millionaires and they just

00:28:23 ◼   ► kept coming to work all because it was

00:28:27 ◼   ► you know people got these options in the

00:28:29 ◼   ► stock had just gone up up up every micro

00:28:32 ◼   ► surface

00:28:33 ◼   ► well I'm excited it's one of those

00:28:35 ◼   ► things i always hear about and always

00:28:36 ◼   ► think I should read that sometime and of

00:28:37 ◼   ► course I probably never will

00:28:39 ◼   ► I'm it's one of those books where I'm

00:28:40 ◼   ► surprised I'm not in the same situation

00:28:42 ◼   ► that it seems like type of book that

00:28:44 ◼   ► would be on my wish I'd read it but

00:28:45 ◼   ► haven't read but I did read it was it's

00:28:47 ◼   ► very good i mean even split if you want

00:28:50 ◼   ► well I don't you know I don't think i

00:28:52 ◼   ► remember it quite well enough to spoil

00:28:54 ◼   ► it but it's just it it it but it it

00:28:56 ◼   ► captured that feeling know of you know

00:28:59 ◼   ► you never knew who you were around who

00:29:02 ◼   ► was you know had like a net worth of

00:29:03 ◼   ► 15-20 million dollars and was doing the

00:29:05 ◼   ► exact same work as you was doing it for

00:29:07 ◼   ► nothing but a salary of I don't you know

00:29:10 ◼   ► ninety thousand dollars a year which was

00:29:12 ◼   ► like you know a lot better in 1995 that

00:29:15 ◼   ► sounds today

00:29:16 ◼   ► oh yeah well and also a minute and

00:29:18 ◼   ► that's always kind of been problematic

00:29:21 ◼   ► and part a deeply-rooted part of the the

00:29:24 ◼   ► modern computer worker culture is you

00:29:27 ◼   ► know you eat a lot of people except

00:29:29 ◼   ► pretty mediocre salaries on the promise

00:29:33 ◼   ► of maybe striking it rich with options

00:29:35 ◼   ► or something and and in practice that

00:29:37 ◼   ► happens to so few programmers relative

00:29:40 ◼   ► to how many jobs there are they're

00:29:41 ◼   ► paying these terrible salaries promising

00:29:43 ◼   ► the possibility of these things it's

00:29:46 ◼   ► really kind of sad it's it's it's a lot

00:29:47 ◼   ► like like the celebrity or entertainment

00:29:50 ◼   ► business or even professional sports

00:29:52 ◼   ► where you know people will tolerate

00:29:54 ◼   ► pretty-pretty a ripoff conditions for a

00:29:59 ◼   ► while with the hope of making a big and

00:30:01 ◼   ► most never will

00:30:02 ◼   ► right right like minor league baseball

00:30:05 ◼   ► being right famous example right like

00:30:07 ◼   ► minor league baseball players most of

00:30:09 ◼   ► them unless they've already there so

00:30:10 ◼   ► talented like takin top and the draft

00:30:13 ◼   ► and they've signed for a big bonus are

00:30:15 ◼   ► making like hundreds of dollars a week

00:30:18 ◼   ► maybe even in a month

00:30:20 ◼   ► riding around on like school buses

00:30:21 ◼   ► staying in college dorms

00:30:23 ◼   ► you know all you know six months at a

00:30:25 ◼   ► time and then going to you know get a

00:30:27 ◼   ► day job for the other six months of the

00:30:28 ◼   ► year i'm grown men you know

00:30:32 ◼   ► thirty-year-old grown man who still hope

00:30:33 ◼   ► to make it to the major leagues who are

00:30:34 ◼   ► sleeping in college dorms for six months

00:30:37 ◼   ► that's gotta be rough oh I think it's

00:30:39 ◼   ► really rough sort of what makes minor

00:30:42 ◼   ► league baseball so poetic though you

00:30:44 ◼   ► know I the whole bull durham thing here

00:30:50 ◼   ► let me throw this is something from my

00:30:52 ◼   ► notes and this is about the apples to

00:30:54 ◼   ► get back to the apple stock and it's not

00:30:58 ◼   ► just the stock it's it's to me and I i

00:31:01 ◼   ► talked about this with mulch last week

00:31:02 ◼   ► where there's as different breed of

00:31:04 ◼   ► Apple why don't you want to call them

00:31:07 ◼   ► pessimist I don't use the word hater

00:31:09 ◼   ► because I feel like hater is the

00:31:11 ◼   ► opposite of fanboy and it's not

00:31:12 ◼   ► constructive

00:31:14 ◼   ► but people who just I'm just gonna say

00:31:15 ◼   ► people who don't like Apple and people

00:31:18 ◼   ► you know or or or who they're looking

00:31:25 ◼   ► for reasons to always not like Apple

00:31:27 ◼   ► right cuz i mean that's like the real

00:31:29 ◼   ► opposite of family and the family

00:31:30 ◼   ► accusation is that is that you know

00:31:33 ◼   ► whoever the accused of it will blindly

00:31:34 ◼   ► try to support the thing that they've

00:31:38 ◼   ► bought usually because it's something

00:31:40 ◼   ► that you can't economically by both

00:31:42 ◼   ► sides of so you gotta make a choice and

00:31:44 ◼   ► you want to defend your choice and so

00:31:46 ◼   ► you want to support that you know

00:31:48 ◼   ► emotionally and psychologically some

00:31:50 ◼   ► kind of that that convey a distance that

00:31:53 ◼   ► there's some kind of term for that I

00:31:54 ◼   ► don't know

00:31:55 ◼   ► yeah something and so I think that hater

00:31:56 ◼   ► is the other end of its like it's

00:31:58 ◼   ► somebody who who who has decided never

00:32:00 ◼   ► to to support this thing never to buy

00:32:02 ◼   ► this company's products and want to

00:32:04 ◼   ► continually justify that position to

00:32:05 ◼   ► themselves I I'd something like that and

00:32:09 ◼   ► I think I got sidetracked on this point

00:32:10 ◼   ► last week before i made it quite right

00:32:12 ◼   ► which is that there's de tirely

00:32:14 ◼   ► different breeds of people who let's say

00:32:16 ◼   ► people who Apple drives crazy I mean and

00:32:20 ◼   ► and and let's just say this take it to

00:32:22 ◼   ► extremes one would be lets say like the

00:32:25 ◼   ► open-source zealot with long hair and a

00:32:30 ◼   ► beard and you know a developer who loves

00:32:35 ◼   ► android because it's open really

00:32:37 ◼   ► seize it and thinks it's just great that

00:32:38 ◼   ► you can download it and you know really

00:32:41 ◼   ► doesn't see it as a joke some of it is a

00:32:42 ◼   ► little while but there's still no enough

00:32:45 ◼   ► of it that's open and really really

00:32:46 ◼   ► hates the whole app store thing and the

00:32:49 ◼   ► fact that you you know they have to

00:32:51 ◼   ► jailbreak the thing to sideload apps on

00:32:53 ◼   ► it and you still can't jailbreak the

00:32:55 ◼   ► iPhone 5 and blah blah blah that guy and

00:32:58 ◼   ► compare and contrast with the guy who

00:33:00 ◼   ► works on Wall Street and is 57 years old

00:33:04 ◼   ► and wears a suit everyday I and really

00:33:07 ◼   ► you know is more about the Apple the

00:33:09 ◼   ► stock APPL the company you know and and

00:33:13 ◼   ► it's a very different of those are two

00:33:15 ◼   ► people who are never going to meet a

00:33:17 ◼   ► very different reasons for not liking

00:33:19 ◼   ► the company or being pessimistic about

00:33:21 ◼   ► it or predicting its demise or whatever

00:33:23 ◼   ► both driven nuts by the company and I I

00:33:29 ◼   ► feel like a lot of them it's all come

00:33:31 ◼   ► together in recent months though where

00:33:33 ◼   ► that the media coverage I've seen of

00:33:36 ◼   ► apple in the last two months has

00:33:38 ◼   ► consistently presented apples smartphone

00:33:42 ◼   ► sales in a way that I think makes it

00:33:47 ◼   ► look as though Samsung is already

00:33:48 ◼   ► outselling them and and it's not true at

00:33:52 ◼   ► the high end you know into the galaxy

00:33:54 ◼   ► note in the galaxy tab right they say

00:33:56 ◼   ► increased competition from the galaxy

00:33:57 ◼   ► tab and that apple's share of the

00:33:59 ◼   ► smartphone's has dropped from 23% in

00:34:02 ◼   ► nineteen percent and Samsung has gone up

00:34:04 ◼   ► to thirty one percent and then anyway I

00:34:06 ◼   ► think my dad I always think my dad my

00:34:08 ◼   ► dad read that article what would he

00:34:09 ◼   ► think he would say well that's this

00:34:11 ◼   ► samsung galaxy tab is outselling the

00:34:13 ◼   ► iphone by a good margin and that's not

00:34:16 ◼   ► true

00:34:16 ◼   ► apple sold more iphone 5 in like the

00:34:19 ◼   ► first three or two months than apple and

00:34:22 ◼   ► then samsung sold galaxy tab threes in I

00:34:26 ◼   ► forget how much longer it's been on the

00:34:28 ◼   ► market you know it's not even close

00:34:29 ◼   ► so here's what I think is going on in

00:34:33 ◼   ► some extent I think that there's a lot

00:34:35 ◼   ► of writers analysts blogger zealots and

00:34:39 ◼   ► in some sense investors to who have been

00:34:41 ◼   ► waiting and waiting four years for Apple

00:34:44 ◼   ► to fall for whatever reason whatever

00:34:46 ◼   ► their hobby horse reason of of what's

00:34:48 ◼   ► wrong with apple

00:34:49 ◼   ► why apple's doing it wrong and why

00:34:50 ◼   ► they're lucky they have been waiting for

00:34:52 ◼   ► Apple to fall and they've grown so

00:34:54 ◼   ► impatient because it hasn't happened

00:34:55 ◼   ► that they've just gone ahead and claim

00:34:57 ◼   ► that it's happened

00:34:58 ◼   ► right or like they are they amplify any

00:35:01 ◼   ► sign that it might be happening in some

00:35:03 ◼   ► point in the future I think there's an

00:35:06 ◼   ► awful lot of them who are claiming that

00:35:08 ◼   ► it's happening now

00:35:09 ◼   ► right i mean I'm i see it on Twitter

00:35:11 ◼   ► like with the reaction to my sort of

00:35:14 ◼   ► incredulous that Apple apples results

00:35:17 ◼   ► yesterday should you know would result

00:35:19 ◼   ► in a massive massive dumping of the

00:35:24 ◼   ► stock again I think the stocks actually

00:35:27 ◼   ► going to lower since the point where

00:35:28 ◼   ► somebody tweeted it but somebody worked

00:35:30 ◼   ► it out that the amount of money that

00:35:32 ◼   ► apple's market cap dropped after hours

00:35:35 ◼   ► just in like two hours and after our

00:35:37 ◼   ► training after the result was equal to 2

00:35:40 ◼   ► Nokia's plus 2 rims have any i think it

00:35:44 ◼   ► has gone down further since and it's

00:35:45 ◼   ► gone down further since that Apple has

00:35:47 ◼   ► lost the entirety of two rims and to

00:35:50 ◼   ► Nokia's i think a lot of this attitude

00:35:53 ◼   ► like I i wrote this thing come let's go

00:35:55 ◼   ► for the magazine is published this week

00:35:57 ◼   ► called anti-apple anger and and you know

00:36:01 ◼   ► my theory is that a lot of people really

00:36:03 ◼   ► resent Apple you know like i like i

00:36:06 ◼   ► choose not to buy samsung phones but i

00:36:09 ◼   ► don't really have any feelings towards

00:36:11 ◼   ► samsung I just don't really I don't

00:36:12 ◼   ► really think I really care about them

00:36:14 ◼   ► I'm and pretty much in different but a

00:36:17 ◼   ► lot of people who choose not to buy

00:36:18 ◼   ► apple stuff really get worked up about

00:36:20 ◼   ► it and I think one of the reasons why is

00:36:23 ◼   ► because apple products say no a lot in

00:36:28 ◼   ► the in the design choices they make and

00:36:30 ◼   ► in the in the features they omit and the

00:36:33 ◼   ► implementation of the features they have

00:36:35 ◼   ► they say no a lot and they say no in an

00:36:38 ◼   ► opinionated way and and kind of like a

00:36:40 ◼   ► at least in people's minds like a Steve

00:36:42 ◼   ► Jobs arrogance way of like okay the

00:36:45 ◼   ► iphone doesn't have a keyboard because

00:36:47 ◼   ► nobody should ever need a keyboard

00:36:48 ◼   ► that's the wrong way to do it and if you

00:36:49 ◼   ► need a keyboard

00:36:50 ◼   ► tough luck you're wrong you know it's

00:36:52 ◼   ► that kind of attitude and and so that

00:36:53 ◼   ► that really turns a lot of people off

00:36:56 ◼   ► and you know kind of like well you know

00:37:00 ◼   ► here's here's what we offer we may be

00:37:02 ◼   ► made the thing that we think is bad

00:37:03 ◼   ► just if your needs are different you're

00:37:05 ◼   ► somehow wrong or inferior and if you

00:37:07 ◼   ► don't like it there's the door

00:37:08 ◼   ► you know so it does make a lot of

00:37:09 ◼   ► enemies and so that's why i feel like

00:37:12 ◼   ► the people who choose not to buy Apple a

00:37:14 ◼   ► lot of times they have chosen not to buy

00:37:16 ◼   ► Apple because they either want something

00:37:19 ◼   ► Apple as an offer or they do

00:37:20 ◼   ► legitimately need something that apple

00:37:22 ◼   ► stuff can't address for them and and

00:37:27 ◼   ► that attitude has made them actually

00:37:28 ◼   ► angry that Apple like doesn't want their

00:37:31 ◼   ► money or won't take their business or

00:37:32 ◼   ► won't make something that satisfies them

00:37:34 ◼   ► so it generates level of anger that

00:37:37 ◼   ► seems stronger than then what a lot of

00:37:40 ◼   ► companies get for just not serving a

00:37:42 ◼   ► market and I think it does have to do

00:37:45 ◼   ► with that attitude that I think Steve

00:37:47 ◼   ► Jobs showed publicly and that Apple is

00:37:50 ◼   ► kind of now it's kind of become their

00:37:52 ◼   ► reputation of having this attitude even

00:37:54 ◼   ► even people there now don't actually

00:37:56 ◼   ► express it this way but this attitude of

00:37:59 ◼   ► well you know this is whatyou this is

00:38:02 ◼   ► all you should ever need and if you if

00:38:03 ◼   ► your needs are different than you know

00:38:05 ◼   ► you're wrong right well I like your

00:38:08 ◼   ► there's the door because that's the

00:38:09 ◼   ► other thing is that they don't rather

00:38:11 ◼   ► than just take the door and go by the

00:38:13 ◼   ► other companies product and say okay

00:38:17 ◼   ► about this one

00:38:18 ◼   ► they don't take the door they stay in

00:38:20 ◼   ► complaint

00:38:21 ◼   ► yeah well and you know a lot of times we

00:38:24 ◼   ► get if you really believe like if

00:38:26 ◼   ► Apple's saying no one ever needs a

00:38:28 ◼   ► keyboard and you're like well but i like

00:38:30 ◼   ► keyboards you know then there's like

00:38:34 ◼   ► this this motivation people say wait

00:38:36 ◼   ► know when something's wrong here you

00:38:38 ◼   ► people are all sheep you're brainwashed

00:38:39 ◼   ► your faithful whatever you know all

00:38:41 ◼   ► these terms that mean you're being

00:38:42 ◼   ► irrational devoted you know that they

00:38:44 ◼   ► want to discredit you guys like know

00:38:46 ◼   ► that that's factually wrong in my head

00:38:48 ◼   ► so obviously something's wrong with all

00:38:50 ◼   ► of you people for buying this and for

00:38:51 ◼   ► saying it's so great i like this guy

00:38:54 ◼   ► link to this week he said here's the

00:38:57 ◼   ► things Apple needs to do and one of them

00:38:59 ◼   ► is making I now our lease announced

00:39:01 ◼   ► during the earnings call they should

00:39:02 ◼   ► announce that we're gonna make an iphone

00:39:04 ◼   ► with a hardware keyboard I

00:39:07 ◼   ► and he rides your correspondent does not

00:39:10 ◼   ► have an iphone i probably wouldn't own

00:39:12 ◼   ► one anyway but I'm precluded from even

00:39:14 ◼   ► considering one because they do not come

00:39:16 ◼   ► with the real physical keyboard right

00:39:18 ◼   ► and i have saggy and I absolutely must

00:39:20 ◼   ► have one so i love this guy I love him

00:39:24 ◼   ► because he's still hung up on this 2007

00:39:27 ◼   ► complained of that Apple needs to not

00:39:29 ◼   ► should but needs to make an iphone with

00:39:32 ◼   ► a hardware keyboard and then I just love

00:39:34 ◼   ► it I love the bonus-point his business

00:39:36 ◼   ► whatever but that he probably wouldn't

00:39:38 ◼   ► own one anyway that they must do it

00:39:41 ◼   ► because he can't buy one without one but

00:39:43 ◼   ► he still wouldn't buy one man's about

00:39:45 ◼   ► yeah that is pretty good

00:39:47 ◼   ► that to me is is really really good i

00:39:50 ◼   ► also saw the along similar lines i saw

00:39:52 ◼   ► some because one good way to get a lot

00:39:55 ◼   ► of clicks and it's one of those things

00:39:56 ◼   ► and you wrote about this recently but

00:39:58 ◼   ► don't link to jerks and it's a fine line

00:40:01 ◼   ► you know be trying to give you an

00:40:03 ◼   ► exceptional you're still allowed to I

00:40:04 ◼   ► just don't want yeah but it's a fine

00:40:06 ◼   ► line for everybody and it is where it's

00:40:08 ◼   ► a weird thing for me because my site has

00:40:10 ◼   ► gotten so popular and i don't really i

00:40:13 ◼   ► tend I think for the I think it's good

00:40:15 ◼   ► that i still see it the same way I used

00:40:17 ◼   ► to

00:40:18 ◼   ► and I think if there's any sort of

00:40:19 ◼   ► consistency as it's gotten more

00:40:22 ◼   ► successful it's because to me in my mind

00:40:25 ◼   ► it it isn't that much but i don't i

00:40:28 ◼   ► don't see the people reading the site i

00:40:29 ◼   ► see the same screen that I saw before

00:40:32 ◼   ► but i do know in the back of my head

00:40:34 ◼   ► that there's so many more people reading

00:40:35 ◼   ► and so I am a little bit less likely and

00:40:38 ◼   ► me one of those things that people write

00:40:39 ◼   ► just to get the clicks just together it

00:40:42 ◼   ► is the i'm switching from iphone to

00:40:45 ◼   ► android and here's why

00:40:46 ◼   ► you know I loved my iphone four years

00:40:49 ◼   ► but now i'm switching to android and

00:40:51 ◼   ► there was one last week i think it was a

00:40:53 ◼   ► guy get home and I almost link to I had

00:40:57 ◼   ► it written up I don't do I very seldom

00:40:59 ◼   ► write up a post or even a link and then

00:41:02 ◼   ► stare at it and have it all ready to go

00:41:05 ◼   ► just like one click from publish and

00:41:07 ◼   ► then scrapped it very very seldom but i

00:41:10 ◼   ► did it with this one because I just said

00:41:11 ◼   ► you know what this guy was just angling

00:41:14 ◼   ► for this you know because it wasn't even

00:41:16 ◼   ► here's why I did switch its here's why

00:41:18 ◼   ► I'm going to switch which is not even

00:41:20 ◼   ► worth right because i really got the

00:41:22 ◼   ► feeling like he wasn't gonna do it

00:41:23 ◼   ► anyway but anyway the thing that i found

00:41:26 ◼   ► was that he had like it was only

00:41:27 ◼   ► separated by one paragraph it was like 7

00:41:30 ◼   ► paragraph in was that I all he'd a lot

00:41:38 ◼   ► of his action now on his iphone is in

00:41:41 ◼   ► these apps from Google and he uses you

00:41:43 ◼   ► know the gmail app for his email and

00:41:47 ◼   ► google maps for maps instead of apple

00:41:51 ◼   ► maps and I had like two or three other

00:41:54 ◼   ► examples and a lot of people have been

00:41:56 ◼   ► writing about this that trend lately to

00:41:58 ◼   ► that people replacing apples built-in

00:42:00 ◼   ► apps with third-party apps and this is

00:42:02 ◼   ► somehow bad for Apple then another

00:42:03 ◼   ► paragraph and in the next paragraph was

00:42:05 ◼   ► that apple's app store apple is too

00:42:07 ◼   ► closed and doesn't let you replace stuff

00:42:11 ◼   ► you know two paragraphs before he said

00:42:13 ◼   ► the reason he switched thing about and

00:42:15 ◼   ► think about switching the android is

00:42:16 ◼   ► that he's replaced all of his built-in

00:42:18 ◼   ► apps plus they don't a lot of people say

00:42:21 ◼   ► that the google apps are actually better

00:42:22 ◼   ► on iOS and their android after all a lot

00:42:25 ◼   ► of people do and I had something I want

00:42:27 ◼   ► to write about soon on daring fireball I

00:42:30 ◼   ► want to do it as I got this in draft

00:42:32 ◼   ► follow-up to my thing last week about

00:42:33 ◼   ► that UI design trends and that to me

00:42:38 ◼   ► it's very notable that google is often

00:42:41 ◼   ► hailed at being as being having these

00:42:43 ◼   ► really nice iOS apps and that are in

00:42:46 ◼   ► this sort of knew less textured sort of

00:42:52 ◼   ► planar design style and trying to avoid

00:42:56 ◼   ► a rectangles I'm trying to avoid all

00:42:58 ◼   ► kind really trying to avoid the word

00:43:00 ◼   ► skeuomorphic and flat because i think

00:43:03 ◼   ► but I I not because and overused but

00:43:05 ◼   ► because i think that they're there

00:43:06 ◼   ► they're both wrong the wrong words and I

00:43:09 ◼   ► really kind of read i wish i hadn't used

00:43:13 ◼   ► that one word in the title of last

00:43:15 ◼   ► week's piece but that'll be for my

00:43:17 ◼   ► follow-up but anyway it is absolutely

00:43:20 ◼   ► the case though without any argument

00:43:23 ◼   ► that Google's iOS apps don't look like

00:43:25 ◼   ► android apps at all and I think that's

00:43:27 ◼   ► really interesting because go back at

00:43:30 ◼   ► previous generation

00:43:32 ◼   ► and I liked by the nineties the knock

00:43:35 ◼   ► against all of Microsoft's mac apps was

00:43:38 ◼   ► that they all look like the windows apps

00:43:40 ◼   ► like you know all the office apps look

00:43:43 ◼   ► like Windows obvious they didn't have a

00:43:45 ◼   ► Windows user from the time i hated

00:43:46 ◼   ► quicktime because it looked like it

00:43:48 ◼   ► didn't belong on windows where I

00:43:51 ◼   ► couldn't absolutely see the argument you

00:43:53 ◼   ► know I mean I think that's why I'm out i

00:43:55 ◼   ► think it's apt I think it's still even

00:43:56 ◼   ► in more recent years i think it's

00:43:58 ◼   ► clearly why safari for windows never got

00:44:01 ◼   ► any traction whatsoever whereas chrome

00:44:03 ◼   ► for windows using the same rendering

00:44:05 ◼   ► engine you know took off like a rocket

00:44:08 ◼   ► I feel like I'm sorry finish that well I

00:44:11 ◼   ► just think that that's to me it's

00:44:12 ◼   ► fascinating that google has is doing I

00:44:15 ◼   ► think much better UI design work and in

00:44:18 ◼   ► all senses of the word aesthetically in

00:44:21 ◼   ► terms of being aesthetically pleasing

00:44:22 ◼   ► and in terms of usability on iOS that on

00:44:26 ◼   ► Android well and I think part of that is

00:44:29 ◼   ► that the environment is you know like

00:44:32 ◼   ► you try to rise to the level of your

00:44:34 ◼   ► environment that urine and on iOS like

00:44:36 ◼   ► if they really something really hideous

00:44:38 ◼   ► that probably do very well in iOS

00:44:41 ◼   ► because the standards are are generally

00:44:42 ◼   ► pretty high for you I stuff

00:44:44 ◼   ► yeah and my understanding is I don't

00:44:46 ◼   ► know a lot of people who work at Google

00:44:48 ◼   ► on iOS stuff but I know a few but my

00:44:50 ◼   ► sense is though that that that's what

00:44:51 ◼   ► they do that if you work on iOS stuff

00:44:54 ◼   ► you're an iOS engineer at Google it's

00:44:56 ◼   ► not just that you're on Team acts and

00:44:59 ◼   ► the same people writing android apps are

00:45:00 ◼   ► writing iOS apps and they're trying to

00:45:02 ◼   ► square the circle by using some sort of

00:45:07 ◼   ► cross-platform things that they cannot

00:45:09 ◼   ► write once and do it all and you know

00:45:11 ◼   ► make them both just webviews so they can

00:45:15 ◼   ► just write once and ship both know

00:45:17 ◼   ► they've got like real iOS developers who

00:45:19 ◼   ► know and love the platform right i think

00:45:24 ◼   ► they're even advertising recently wasn't

00:45:25 ◼   ► everything when they were advertising

00:45:26 ◼   ► recently that they you know that if

00:45:28 ◼   ► you're a great iOS developer you come

00:45:30 ◼   ► work at Google and change the world or

00:45:32 ◼   ► something like that no i don't know i

00:45:34 ◼   ► don't let me do a sponsor break

00:45:36 ◼   ► yeah let's take the take the first break

00:45:39 ◼   ► here and I want to thank our first

00:45:41 ◼   ► sponsor you've probably heard of them

00:45:43 ◼   ► Squarespace

00:45:44 ◼   ► Squarespace is doing great work they

00:45:48 ◼   ► have a great new product on its a

00:45:51 ◼   ► do-it-yourself website platform that

00:45:53 ◼   ► allows you to make a website or a blog

00:45:56 ◼   ► just a few minutes they give you free

00:46:00 ◼   ► domain name they handle all the hosting

00:46:03 ◼   ► and they have 24-hour customer support

00:46:06 ◼   ► and we take a break in the middle of

00:46:07 ◼   ► this sponsor me tell you something

00:46:09 ◼   ► happen to me John Gruber last night

00:46:12 ◼   ► ready to go to bed like midnight wasn't

00:46:14 ◼   ► going to go to bed is gonna watch a

00:46:15 ◼   ► movie or somebody's ready to walk away

00:46:16 ◼   ► from keyboard and I went to check my

00:46:18 ◼   ► stats just one more time before I went

00:46:20 ◼   ► to bed and and I wouldn't love it at all

00:46:23 ◼   ► I went to go to daring fireball dotnet

00:46:25 ◼   ► and it just spun wasn't completely dead

00:46:28 ◼   ► but the little progress bar what about

00:46:30 ◼   ► two inches and just stopped almost never

00:46:32 ◼   ► happens to me right website is you

00:46:34 ◼   ► generally really really solid I long

00:46:38 ◼   ► story short i logged in i restarted

00:46:40 ◼   ► apache students didn't solve it I

00:46:43 ◼   ► noticed that there were way too many

00:46:45 ◼   ► Apache processes running I thought maybe

00:46:47 ◼   ► I was getting somebody even way more

00:46:50 ◼   ► popular than me had fireball my sight

00:46:52 ◼   ► when I would be why there's so many

00:46:54 ◼   ► things i don't know i couldn't figure

00:46:57 ◼   ► out why there were so many Apache

00:46:58 ◼   ► processes can figure it out

00:47:03 ◼   ► restarted apache didn't help restarted

00:47:05 ◼   ► the whole server didn't help

00:47:07 ◼   ► can I take a guess what was it you run

00:47:11 ◼   ► meant stats on your server right I do

00:47:14 ◼   ► my guess is that all those Apache

00:47:17 ◼   ► instances were a whole bunch of mint

00:47:21 ◼   ► processes waiting for the connection of

00:47:22 ◼   ► the database and the database itself was

00:47:24 ◼   ► jammed up

00:47:25 ◼   ► exactamundo my god Marco Arment that's

00:47:28 ◼   ► why they pay you the big bucks

00:47:29 ◼   ► I kind of have some background assorted

00:47:31 ◼   ► I have a second server that runs mysql

00:47:35 ◼   ► and mysql does two things for me is my

00:47:38 ◼   ► movable-type installation that's where

00:47:41 ◼   ► the data store is for it and meant

00:47:43 ◼   ► rights to it and so exactly what you're

00:47:46 ◼   ► saying is happening is every time

00:47:47 ◼   ► someone would load the page the actual

00:47:49 ◼   ► web server during far ball is up but

00:47:51 ◼   ► every single Apache process would then

00:47:53 ◼   ► be like waiting for the mysql server to

00:47:56 ◼   ► get back

00:47:56 ◼   ► to it and say okay I took that hit for

00:47:58 ◼   ► you from mint and then as soon as i

00:48:01 ◼   ► restarted the mysql server everything

00:48:03 ◼   ► was hunky-dory back to normal

00:48:05 ◼   ► here's the thing how many normal people

00:48:07 ◼   ► can do what I just did I i have a

00:48:10 ◼   ► demonic assistant man but i do have a

00:48:11 ◼   ► degree in computer science I did work

00:48:13 ◼   ► professionally as a web developer before

00:48:16 ◼   ► how many people at midnight on wednesday

00:48:18 ◼   ► night and can troubleshoot something

00:48:21 ◼   ► like that

00:48:21 ◼   ► I wish you were around your party could

00:48:22 ◼   ► have saved me 15 minutes and it would

00:48:24 ◼   ► have been started sooner

00:48:26 ◼   ► here's the thing you go to squarespace

00:48:28 ◼   ► instead you don't have to worry about

00:48:30 ◼   ► that they've got 24 hour support their

00:48:34 ◼   ► analytics are built in probably don't

00:48:36 ◼   ► block on the mysql server and they

00:48:39 ◼   ► handle the hosting for you and then I

00:48:41 ◼   ► mentioned that they have 24-hour

00:48:42 ◼   ► customer support everything on our

00:48:45 ◼   ► platform its drag-and-drop right so

00:48:46 ◼   ► you're not sitting there you don't have

00:48:47 ◼   ► to sit there and write code to make your

00:48:49 ◼   ► website design your blog they have a

00:48:51 ◼   ► tremendous front end where you can

00:48:54 ◼   ► design this stuff and put little widgets

00:48:56 ◼   ► you know put the elements you want on

00:48:58 ◼   ► the page in the templates where you want

00:49:00 ◼   ► them by drag-and-drop you can drag

00:49:03 ◼   ► pictures straight from your desktop take

00:49:04 ◼   ► a picture is on your desktop drag it

00:49:07 ◼   ► right into the web browser and create

00:49:08 ◼   ► custom layout put the picture in there

00:49:10 ◼   ► just by drag-and-drop you don't have to

00:49:11 ◼   ► write image tags and source and all that

00:49:14 ◼   ► stuff i mean you could if you wanted to

00:49:15 ◼   ► you can customize this stuff if you do

00:49:17 ◼   ► know how to do write code but you don't

00:49:19 ◼   ► have to all the templates are

00:49:21 ◼   ► customizable so you don't have to just

00:49:24 ◼   ► pick between their pre-existing

00:49:25 ◼   ► templates you can customize it tweaked

00:49:28 ◼   ► it a little bit or make your own thing

00:49:29 ◼   ► right from the start if that's what you

00:49:31 ◼   ► want to do

00:49:32 ◼   ► it's really really great stuff you can

00:49:35 ◼   ► switch from one template to another at

00:49:37 ◼   ► any time you don't have to pick all

00:49:40 ◼   ► right at the beginning and then you're

00:49:41 ◼   ► locked in because all your content is

00:49:42 ◼   ► like hard formatted in the template one

00:49:46 ◼   ► more thing they do that I still don't

00:49:48 ◼   ► even do is that all their built-in

00:49:50 ◼   ► templates scale automatically have

00:49:52 ◼   ► perfectly fit iPad iPhone your computer

00:49:55 ◼   ► your 27-inch imac whatever it is you

00:49:58 ◼   ► know what you want to call a responsive

00:49:59 ◼   ► design they've got it I don't even have

00:50:01 ◼   ► that yet I'm still behind the eight ball

00:50:03 ◼   ► on that I'm you can pull contacts push

00:50:06 ◼   ► content from your blog's to Twitter

00:50:08 ◼   ► Facebook stuff like that you can pull

00:50:11 ◼   ► content from your twitter you can have

00:50:12 ◼   ► your tweets show up automatically on

00:50:14 ◼   ► your Squarespace site great great stuff

00:50:16 ◼   ► and it's really easy you can learn it

00:50:18 ◼   ► just by looking at it here's what you do

00:50:20 ◼   ► go to squarespace.com / the talkshow

00:50:24 ◼   ► squarespace.com / the talk show that no

00:50:27 ◼   ► no you're coming here from the show

00:50:28 ◼   ► start a free trial don't even need a

00:50:30 ◼   ► credit card just start the free trial if

00:50:32 ◼   ► you decide to purchase if you like it

00:50:34 ◼   ► then when you go you just enter enter

00:50:37 ◼   ► offer code below the pricing thing at

00:50:39 ◼   ► checkout and the offer code is the

00:50:42 ◼   ► talkshow one that's the talk show and

00:50:45 ◼   ► then the digit 1 and you'll get a

00:50:47 ◼   ► 10-percent discount squarespace.com /

00:50:51 ◼   ► the talk show when you're ready to sign

00:50:53 ◼   ► up and pay use the offer code the

00:50:55 ◼   ► talkshow one my thanks to squarespace

00:50:58 ◼   ► whatever it's worth I I even though i

00:51:02 ◼   ► can log into a server and figure out

00:51:04 ◼   ► problems like that last week launched a

00:51:07 ◼   ► new podcast and I wanted to build a

00:51:09 ◼   ► website for it and the last thing I

00:51:12 ◼   ► wanted to do was spend a whole lot of

00:51:14 ◼   ► time and effort making a website for a

00:51:16 ◼   ► podcast that might only have a few

00:51:18 ◼   ► episodes and I know that's like the last

00:51:20 ◼   ► thing you want to worry about so i went

00:51:21 ◼   ► to squarespace and that dated they did

00:51:23 ◼   ► end up sponsoring it so it's a little

00:51:25 ◼   ► bit of a disclosure there but I i went

00:51:28 ◼   ► to host it there before i got them to

00:51:30 ◼   ► sponsor it and you know because i went

00:51:33 ◼   ► there because i didn't even though i can

00:51:35 ◼   ► do all that stuff I don't want to mess

00:51:38 ◼   ► with that one isn't necessary and and it

00:51:41 ◼   ► was great i really have no complaints i

00:51:42 ◼   ► hope the entire podcast there including

00:51:44 ◼   ► the audio files

00:51:46 ◼   ► amazingly they allow you to do that I

00:51:49 ◼   ► i'm very happy with that I they've built

00:51:51 ◼   ► out an incredible you know it if you're

00:51:53 ◼   ► thinking you know I don't know I used to

00:51:55 ◼   ► think of Squarespace is like a not that

00:51:57 ◼   ► it was bad but I used in the back of my

00:51:58 ◼   ► head I thought of it is a fill in the

00:52:01 ◼   ► blank template thing where you got

00:52:03 ◼   ► templates and you can fill them in and

00:52:05 ◼   ► then you have a template back website

00:52:07 ◼   ► and it is so much more than that it

00:52:09 ◼   ► really is it's a really great system

00:52:11 ◼   ► that they built now and I feel like you

00:52:14 ◼   ► know the days of like hosting your own

00:52:15 ◼   ► wordpress I i think our are long over

00:52:18 ◼   ► for all

00:52:19 ◼   ► most everybody you know if you have a

00:52:21 ◼   ► lot of customization or special needs

00:52:23 ◼   ► maybe you might want to look at that

00:52:25 ◼   ► sort of stuff but like the the days of

00:52:28 ◼   ► hosting your own blog especially

00:52:30 ◼   ► maintaining its software i think are

00:52:33 ◼   ► long over

00:52:34 ◼   ► yeah i think so too you know what I had

00:52:36 ◼   ► to do last week and again it is a sort

00:52:37 ◼   ► of just coincidental that it all

00:52:39 ◼   ► happened last week I had to actually

00:52:40 ◼   ► patch movable-type because of a an

00:52:44 ◼   ► exploit I'm kind of surprised you still

00:52:46 ◼   ► can patch your copy given how much

00:52:48 ◼   ► you've modified it

00:52:49 ◼   ► I you know what though I haven't

00:52:51 ◼   ► modified you know it's abstracted enough

00:52:53 ◼   ► for my hacks are plugins and they have a

00:52:57 ◼   ► pretty decent plug-in API that that knew

00:53:00 ◼   ► that the isolates the plug-in code and

00:53:04 ◼   ► most of my really weird hacks are

00:53:07 ◼   ► outside movable-type it is taking

00:53:10 ◼   ► because movable-type is a static site

00:53:12 ◼   ► generator at least the way i use it it's

00:53:14 ◼   ► taking those static files and doing

00:53:15 ◼   ► weird things with them outside

00:53:18 ◼   ► movable-type ah ok and that stuff is

00:53:21 ◼   ► irrelevant as long as movable-type still

00:53:23 ◼   ► spits out valid RSS or atom feeds

00:53:26 ◼   ► install my hacks on top of that stole

00:53:29 ◼   ► still work

00:53:30 ◼   ► are there still any people who like

00:53:32 ◼   ► fight for 14 over the other like if

00:53:33 ◼   ► they're like no Adam is superior to RSS

00:53:35 ◼   ► no RSS is simpler now i don't think so i

00:53:39 ◼   ► think that that whole thing I think

00:53:40 ◼   ► we're all pretending that didn't happen

00:53:42 ◼   ► because like next EML yeah i think so

00:53:45 ◼   ► although i'm not sure i would be

00:53:47 ◼   ► interesting to hear from someone with a

00:53:48 ◼   ► an aggregator which is more popular RSS

00:53:51 ◼   ► 2 or Adam well google reader kind of

00:53:56 ◼   ► threw the the balance pretty hard

00:53:58 ◼   ► towards Adam because google reader any

00:54:00 ◼   ► feed that they suck in they convert to

00:54:03 ◼   ► Adam for all the output

00:54:04 ◼   ► mmm i think that that at least was the

00:54:07 ◼   ► case i don't know if it's still I think

00:54:08 ◼   ► it still is I did not know that although

00:54:10 ◼   ► does it does anybody care though if

00:54:11 ◼   ► they'd handle it for you and there's us

00:54:14 ◼   ► the sort of thing google is so good at

00:54:15 ◼   ► that if yours if you are emitting rss2

00:54:19 ◼   ► but everybody's reading your site

00:54:21 ◼   ► through google reader is seeing Google's

00:54:22 ◼   ► Adam translation of it i'll bet it's

00:54:25 ◼   ► very high fidelity is really matter now

00:54:29 ◼   ► I guess I i use ad

00:54:32 ◼   ► I think I'm not even a hundred percent

00:54:34 ◼   ► sure and I free i actually even forget

00:54:36 ◼   ► why i made that choice i mean i have to

00:54:39 ◼   ► actually sure it made sense like in 2003

00:54:41 ◼   ► when we were hot argument but it's there

00:54:44 ◼   ► was something about the actual syntax of

00:54:46 ◼   ► it that i like better

00:54:49 ◼   ► yeah i mean it has some things that it

00:54:51 ◼   ► had some like more more precise

00:54:53 ◼   ► definitions for certain elements like

00:54:56 ◼   ► you know publisher and author updated

00:54:58 ◼   ► with stuff like that like RSS is a

00:54:59 ◼   ► little bit more liberal i think but

00:55:02 ◼   ► before they're really close yeah well

00:55:05 ◼   ► he's only known me it's hey I'm sure

00:55:08 ◼   ► there's gonna be like three people who

00:55:09 ◼   ► are still fighting this fight for

00:55:11 ◼   ► polygamy is no you're wrong about

00:55:13 ◼   ► everything i am i'm i'm i'm embarrassed

00:55:16 ◼   ► i love how much time I spent the

00:55:19 ◼   ► following that whole saga and how

00:55:21 ◼   ► invested i got in it really wanted some

00:55:23 ◼   ► voices the time but I it was you know

00:55:26 ◼   ► that what is it that something something

00:55:28 ◼   ► of small differences like I don't know

00:55:31 ◼   ► in hindsight I cannot think of to tech

00:55:33 ◼   ► to formats that were are so much the

00:55:36 ◼   ► very same thing and so similar in a way

00:55:38 ◼   ► they do because it wasn't even like a

00:55:40 ◼   ► major you know like here's something

00:55:42 ◼   ► that would have been a huge difference

00:55:43 ◼   ► in their boat xml yeah if one was xml

00:55:46 ◼   ► and the other one was json well there

00:55:48 ◼   ► you've got a really interesting

00:55:50 ◼   ► fundamental difference between the right

00:55:53 ◼   ► like if one of them was was like binary

00:55:55 ◼   ► or if one of them was more like pub/sub

00:55:57 ◼   ► like you know push oriented right but

00:56:01 ◼   ► they were both XML I think if you like

00:56:04 ◼   ► cut off the top couple of lines like at

00:56:07 ◼   ► the right below that that what's it

00:56:09 ◼   ► called the the preamble yeah well the

00:56:12 ◼   ► one with the question marks what's that

00:56:13 ◼   ► called that's the xml preamble right

00:56:15 ◼   ► with you know cut off the next two lines

00:56:17 ◼   ► or something like that I think it would

00:56:18 ◼   ► be really hard to even tell it an

00:56:19 ◼   ► eyeball which one was adamant we can

00:56:21 ◼   ► start assess to it was really close and

00:56:24 ◼   ► a minute way more and more namespace

00:56:27 ◼   ► prefix and colons and the other document

00:56:30 ◼   ► type stuff

00:56:31 ◼   ► this is a type of thing where and I i

00:56:33 ◼   ► always forget to do the follow-up but

00:56:35 ◼   ► this is the sort of thing where talk to

00:56:36 ◼   ► listeners are really really good work

00:56:37 ◼   ► collectively there's somebody out there

00:56:39 ◼   ► who remembers all the nitty-gritty

00:56:41 ◼   ► details of the differences i think in

00:56:43 ◼   ► hindsight as I

00:56:44 ◼   ► look at during fireballs are I i still

00:56:46 ◼   ► call it an RSS feed but it's in the atom

00:56:49 ◼   ► format i think the reason i like to add

00:56:51 ◼   ► more than rss2 was the date format that

00:56:55 ◼   ► are our Adam used what to me was a very

00:56:58 ◼   ► same date format i forget which one it

00:57:00 ◼   ► is but it's one of the iso ones and it

00:57:02 ◼   ► goes year month numbered a number and

00:57:06 ◼   ► then greenwich mean time all on a string

00:57:09 ◼   ► and i think i could be wrong but I think

00:57:11 ◼   ► rss2 used like a crazy sort of more

00:57:14 ◼   ► plain text our date format i don't i

00:57:17 ◼   ► don't think that's true better when I

00:57:19 ◼   ► grow up I want to look it up now I don't

00:57:21 ◼   ► look at this point but maybe somebody

00:57:22 ◼   ► can shoot me an email if i'm wrong about

00:57:24 ◼   ► that i thought that the date format

00:57:25 ◼   ► maybe it was the permalinks maybe there

00:57:27 ◼   ► was something that the permalinks I

00:57:29 ◼   ► thought looked better in the atom

00:57:30 ◼   ► I don't know somehow I got caught up in

00:57:33 ◼   ► cared so you have a new podcast let's

00:57:36 ◼   ► talk about it quick

00:57:37 ◼   ► yeah you had called neutral it's a

00:57:39 ◼   ► neutral dot FM and it's a me Casey list

00:57:44 ◼   ► and John siracusa basically sitting

00:57:46 ◼   ► around BS thing about cars

00:57:48 ◼   ► I just notice and you must have done

00:57:51 ◼   ► this right before we got on the air

00:57:53 ◼   ► because I see episode two is up

00:57:55 ◼   ► yeah put it up earlier this afternoon on

00:57:58 ◼   ► ya episode two is up and it's we

00:58:00 ◼   ► actually episode 12 recorded

00:58:02 ◼   ► back-to-back that the first time we were

00:58:04 ◼   ► recording I said alright let's just keep

00:58:05 ◼   ► going we were on such a roll but we

00:58:07 ◼   ► didn't want to release a two-hour-long

00:58:08 ◼   ► first episode so so those are so there's

00:58:12 ◼   ► no follow-up whatsoever because gonna

00:58:14 ◼   ► drive people crazy who who are still

00:58:15 ◼   ► upset the handful of things we got wrong

00:58:17 ◼   ► episode one huh

00:58:19 ◼   ► but yeah and we used to episode 3 last

00:58:21 ◼   ► night i'll be posting that probably a

00:58:22 ◼   ► mid next week it's a lot of fun you know

00:58:25 ◼   ► it's not one of the reasons why we call

00:58:27 ◼   ► it neutral it is kind of to be

00:58:29 ◼   ► understanding you know every other car

00:58:31 ◼   ► podcast it's all about like car news and

00:58:34 ◼   ► horsepower and racing and and all this

00:58:37 ◼   ► stuff and they all have these like he's

00:58:40 ◼   ► like masculine explosive names and

00:58:42 ◼   ► horsepower speed rocket and it's like we

00:58:45 ◼   ► just want let's let's colors neutral and

00:58:48 ◼   ► just have it be like this this you know

00:58:50 ◼   ► simple black-and-white site this simple

00:58:52 ◼   ► logo that does not contain anything on

00:58:54 ◼   ► fire or moving

00:58:56 ◼   ► and and just just three guys chillin out

00:58:59 ◼   ► talking about casual cars and you know

00:59:02 ◼   ► we're talking about like honda accord

00:59:03 ◼   ► that we've owned in the past not not you

00:59:06 ◼   ► know the newest you know crazy

00:59:09 ◼   ► bugatti veyron that was really starting

00:59:11 ◼   ► like the head and it's just fun it's a

00:59:13 ◼   ► it's a fun casual show if you know a lot

00:59:16 ◼   ► about cars and and you come to it

00:59:17 ◼   ► expecting like like high-end car

00:59:21 ◼   ► discussion

00:59:22 ◼   ► you're probably going to be infuriated

00:59:24 ◼   ► at how much we not only don't talk about

00:59:26 ◼   ► that but how much we get wrong about

00:59:28 ◼   ► some of the technical details what we do

00:59:30 ◼   ► talk about but it's it's really for

00:59:33 ◼   ► casual car fans especially people who

00:59:36 ◼   ► are already like fans of us in general

00:59:38 ◼   ► just wanted to hear a skill out and talk

00:59:40 ◼   ► for a while that that's sort of the car

00:59:43 ◼   ► equivalent of the sports thing that

00:59:46 ◼   ► Montero started that I was in last year

00:59:48 ◼   ► the american McCarver right which is

00:59:51 ◼   ► sort of gone ice cold it's sort of

00:59:53 ◼   ► fizzled out but the basic idea was to do

00:59:55 ◼   ► a sports site for non sports fanatics or

00:59:58 ◼   ► just schedule

00:59:58 ◼   ► just schedule

01:00:00 ◼   ► all sports fans which is sort of

01:00:03 ◼   ► underserved right like you go most

01:00:05 ◼   ► sports sites are for people who like eat

01:00:08 ◼   ► sleep and you know and and maybe that's

01:00:10 ◼   ► just the natural order of things that

01:00:11 ◼   ► most tech sites are for people who are

01:00:14 ◼   ► that's their main obsession seems like

01:00:18 ◼   ► that's the same sort of thing where

01:00:19 ◼   ► you're really interested in cars but

01:00:20 ◼   ► it's not your main thing nobody's ever

01:00:22 ◼   ► say marcos main thing is cars because

01:00:24 ◼   ► and that's hot that's how I am I like

01:00:26 ◼   ► cars a lot but I don't listen to any car

01:00:28 ◼   ► podcasts I don't subscribe to any car

01:00:31 ◼   ► magazines

01:00:32 ◼   ► I you know I I like I like cars a lot

01:00:35 ◼   ► but I don't care quite that much to

01:00:38 ◼   ► follow every single detail of the news

01:00:40 ◼   ► every week and and really care about all

01:00:42 ◼   ► these high-end things I'll never even

01:00:43 ◼   ► see syracuse it does a lot of podcasts

01:00:47 ◼   ► he does yeah hey i'm i'm i'm amazing how

01:00:52 ◼   ► much he does because he has a job and a

01:00:54 ◼   ► family like you know we have families we

01:00:56 ◼   ► don't really have real job so it's a

01:00:58 ◼   ► little bit easier for us to wedge the

01:00:59 ◼   ► stuff in I don't know how he does

01:01:01 ◼   ► I don't either and the other thing that

01:01:03 ◼   ► I find interesting about his podcast

01:01:06 ◼   ► what's the word is a proclivity well the

01:01:12 ◼   ► energy output is that prior to getting

01:01:16 ◼   ► into podcasting on a regular basis he

01:01:18 ◼   ► wrote so sporadically he'd write and

01:01:21 ◼   ► massive right delicious feasts but never

01:01:26 ◼   ► really gave you snacks on a regular

01:01:28 ◼   ► basis and i swear this time come from

01:01:30 ◼   ► I just assumed it was the fact that he

01:01:32 ◼   ► didn't have time as he had a full-time

01:01:33 ◼   ► job in that he's so meticulous and

01:01:35 ◼   ► thinks things through that it it wasn't

01:01:37 ◼   ► possible whereas you know like I didn't

01:01:40 ◼   ► even when I did have a real job found it

01:01:42 ◼   ► possible to write keep daring fireball

01:01:45 ◼   ► going weakly in between the time i had

01:01:49 ◼   ► around a real job whereas he seems to

01:01:51 ◼   ► find us you know the time to do these

01:01:53 ◼   ► podcasts that's something I've i find it

01:01:55 ◼   ► exhausting i find it exhausting but i

01:01:57 ◼   ► find it i find doing one show a week to

01:02:02 ◼   ► be like I cannot believe it's time for

01:02:04 ◼   ► the show again because i feel like i

01:02:05 ◼   ► just did last week show yesterday right

01:02:07 ◼   ► yeah and doing doing any more than one

01:02:09 ◼   ► show week I I don't think I can ever do

01:02:11 ◼   ► that like I don't know like I had my

01:02:13 ◼   ► developer

01:02:13 ◼   ► show and I ended that in december and I

01:02:16 ◼   ► wanted to do a car show and I don't you

01:02:18 ◼   ► know we we've been saying this might be

01:02:19 ◼   ► a limited-run you know we might only do

01:02:21 ◼   ► like eight episodes we don't really know

01:02:23 ◼   ► yet we're gonna see what happens when

01:02:24 ◼   ► that time comes but you know I i also

01:02:27 ◼   ► felt like you know what if i want to do

01:02:29 ◼   ► some other topic in the future and I

01:02:30 ◼   ► don't think I would ever run them in

01:02:32 ◼   ► parallel the workload would just be

01:02:33 ◼   ► insane but I mean and one thing that

01:02:37 ◼   ► helps with with with John siracusa is

01:02:39 ◼   ► you know with his show hypercritical

01:02:41 ◼   ► that he also ended in december that man

01:02:43 ◼   ► i love that show that was my favorite

01:02:44 ◼   ► podcast when when he and hypocritical

01:02:48 ◼   ► one of the things he said was that he

01:02:50 ◼   ► was just spending hours researching for

01:02:53 ◼   ► every show beforehand and like when i

01:02:56 ◼   ► was doing building analyze I would

01:02:57 ◼   ► research before you show for maybe 45

01:02:59 ◼   ► minutes and most that was going to the

01:03:01 ◼   ► feedback email and deciding what to talk

01:03:03 ◼   ► about like I couldn't even imagine

01:03:04 ◼   ► finding the time every week to do hours

01:03:07 ◼   ► of Syracuse little research

01:03:09 ◼   ► so knowing that he was that he was prone

01:03:11 ◼   ► to doing way more work than he might

01:03:13 ◼   ► necessarily need to for our car show

01:03:16 ◼   ► Casey and I are arranged all the topics

01:03:18 ◼   ► and we don't tell Jon we don't tell them

01:03:21 ◼   ► anything in advance so what were too big

01:03:23 ◼   ► because we intentionally keep it from

01:03:24 ◼   ► him so that he can't overworked himself

01:03:27 ◼   ► he can't possibly go research anything

01:03:29 ◼   ► so if we say something if especially if

01:03:31 ◼   ► he says something that's technically

01:03:32 ◼   ► incorrect give me to take it easy on

01:03:35 ◼   ► sweet we are intentionally keeping him

01:03:38 ◼   ► in the dark until the very last minute

01:03:39 ◼   ► and I had mixed feelings about the

01:03:42 ◼   ► weather because it was I do think it was

01:03:44 ◼   ► late and run of hypercritical where he

01:03:46 ◼   ► kind of opened up about how much

01:03:48 ◼   ► preparation he did per episode that he

01:03:50 ◼   ► kept it secret before but I don't call

01:03:52 ◼   ► him having talked about it and I also

01:03:54 ◼   ► feel like maybe the longer they did the

01:03:58 ◼   ► show and the the better that ten and

01:04:04 ◼   ► John got it doing it the more research

01:04:08 ◼   ► he did because that's what he knew made

01:04:10 ◼   ► for a good episode of hypercritical

01:04:12 ◼   ► right that it wasn't that it got easier

01:04:14 ◼   ► and he had to do less work / show it was

01:04:18 ◼   ► that he knew what made for a good

01:04:19 ◼   ► episode and that involved a lot more a

01:04:22 ◼   ► lot of research but I had mixed feelings

01:04:23 ◼   ► about because I felt bad on the one hand

01:04:25 ◼   ► that

01:04:25 ◼   ► doing a massive amount of work for it

01:04:27 ◼   ► but on the other hand I felt good

01:04:29 ◼   ► because i thought well thank God that

01:04:30 ◼   ► he's not just winging it and having the

01:04:32 ◼   ► show come off so incredibly articulate

01:04:34 ◼   ► and meticulous records every one of

01:04:36 ◼   ► those shows was like one of his giant

01:04:38 ◼   ► articles and it and its really

01:04:41 ◼   ► remarkable how policy was able to make

01:04:44 ◼   ► those shows with only a few hours of

01:04:46 ◼   ► prep for each one but I mean that was

01:04:48 ◼   ► the amount of work you put into that was

01:04:51 ◼   ► insane but the output was also amazing

01:04:54 ◼   ► it's absolutely agree with everyone

01:04:58 ◼   ► one thing I've thought about with

01:04:59 ◼   ► podcasts and I don't know maybe they're

01:05:01 ◼   ► a there's so many podcasts and that's

01:05:03 ◼   ► great it's a great thing but you kids

01:05:04 ◼   ► can keep up with them but I maybe

01:05:06 ◼   ► somebody's doing it but I feel like

01:05:08 ◼   ► maybe in terms of like the work and the

01:05:11 ◼   ► relentlessness or the I don't want to

01:05:13 ◼   ► call it of doing it every week I feel

01:05:15 ◼   ► like you do have to do it every week or

01:05:17 ◼   ► have some sort of schedule without a

01:05:18 ◼   ► schedule it just doesn't work and weekly

01:05:21 ◼   ► is pretty natural schedule but I've

01:05:24 ◼   ► often wondered maybe maybe one format to

01:05:26 ◼   ► do for a let's say something like

01:05:29 ◼   ► neutral which isn't meant to be like any

01:05:32 ◼   ► of your primary gigs where you guys are

01:05:35 ◼   ► just uses said maybe it'll only be an

01:05:36 ◼   ► 8-0 run

01:05:37 ◼   ► what about following that the episodic

01:05:39 ◼   ► TV model of having like seasons where

01:05:42 ◼   ► you're going to do eight shows you plan

01:05:44 ◼   ► it that like you're going to say January

01:05:47 ◼   ► in February we're going to do eight

01:05:50 ◼   ► shows one a week for eight weeks and

01:05:52 ◼   ► then we're going to take a break and

01:05:54 ◼   ► then we're going to come back and we'll

01:05:56 ◼   ► do another eight show run when we feel

01:05:58 ◼   ► like we're ready for it

01:06:00 ◼   ► I feel like that might work in a way

01:06:03 ◼   ► that will just do a show whenever we're

01:06:07 ◼   ► not going to do one every week maybe

01:06:09 ◼   ► we're only going to do 20 per year but

01:06:11 ◼   ► will do them at random you know whenever

01:06:13 ◼   ► we feel like randomly we can get

01:06:15 ◼   ► together I feel like that never works

01:06:17 ◼   ► falls apart because that becomes all do

01:06:19 ◼   ► it sometime soon we'll do it next week

01:06:21 ◼   ► we'll do it next month and then then the

01:06:23 ◼   ► show six months that an episode right

01:06:24 ◼   ► and I also feel like it might help in

01:06:27 ◼   ► the same way that it works for TV shows

01:06:29 ◼   ► to keep people the audience engaged is

01:06:32 ◼   ► ok then you can do with just a little

01:06:34 ◼   ► bit of promotion upfront a week or two

01:06:36 ◼   ► in advance to make sure everybody knows

01:06:37 ◼   ► the show's come

01:06:38 ◼   ► back and then people can get into it and

01:06:41 ◼   ► sort of be ready for the fact if they're

01:06:42 ◼   ► fans of it that'll be one of the show's

01:06:44 ◼   ► they'll have queued up on their phone to

01:06:46 ◼   ► listen to in the car in a way to work

01:06:47 ◼   ► for her two months you know but that you

01:06:50 ◼   ► can't think it might be it might be

01:06:51 ◼   ► better to just do like every two weeks

01:06:53 ◼   ► and just constantly rather than take

01:06:55 ◼   ► these big break so that I feel like the

01:06:57 ◼   ► big breaks but also have a very high

01:07:00 ◼   ► chance of just extending themselves and

01:07:02 ◼   ► the coming years and then you forget

01:07:05 ◼   ► about the show dissolves yeah I whereas

01:07:07 ◼   ► it like if and I think as a podcast

01:07:09 ◼   ► listener listen to podcast all the time

01:07:11 ◼   ► and you know in the car washing dishes

01:07:12 ◼   ► whatever and walking the dog

01:07:15 ◼   ► listen a lot of podcast but there are

01:07:17 ◼   ► more podcasts most of the time I that

01:07:21 ◼   ► come out every week then what I have

01:07:22 ◼   ► time to listen to and I think that's

01:07:24 ◼   ► probably true for a lot of people it's

01:07:25 ◼   ► an annulus and so you know I wouldn't

01:07:28 ◼   ► mind if some of my favorite shows went

01:07:31 ◼   ► to every two weeks instead it's like I'm

01:07:33 ◼   ► not the kind of guy to want to skip an

01:07:34 ◼   ► episode like if a show that I listened

01:07:36 ◼   ► to if it comes out I'm gonna listen to

01:07:39 ◼   ► it and if I can't keep up with the show

01:07:42 ◼   ► i'll just delete it i won't listen to i

01:07:44 ◼   ► won't subscribe to it all good rather

01:07:46 ◼   ► not hear any of it then only listened to

01:07:48 ◼   ► every other episode and maybe that's

01:07:50 ◼   ► just what I'm weird i'm a nerd but

01:07:52 ◼   ► that's how I work so you know if if they

01:07:54 ◼   ► were more shows that weren't weekly but

01:07:58 ◼   ► we're still regular I'd be fine with

01:08:00 ◼   ► that you will catch up on Twitter person

01:08:03 ◼   ► you know I honestly I used to be and I

01:08:06 ◼   ► took up so much time on my data in the

01:08:08 ◼   ► last few months basically everything

01:08:10 ◼   ► started the magazine when my workload

01:08:11 ◼   ► has increased substantially ever since

01:08:14 ◼   ► starting the magazine I i became a

01:08:16 ◼   ► scroll to top for the main timeline

01:08:18 ◼   ► person I still read all my @ replies but

01:08:21 ◼   ► but I I can't read the meantime on

01:08:23 ◼   ► anymore

01:08:24 ◼   ► yeah that's how I I but I've been like

01:08:26 ◼   ► that for a long time and I've usually a

01:08:28 ◼   ► completist although i don't actually

01:08:30 ◼   ► read my email it's like a like a debt in

01:08:33 ◼   ► the backline I theoretically would read

01:08:35 ◼   ► it all but I I never get around to it

01:08:37 ◼   ► but I never do the mark as read i keep

01:08:40 ◼   ► marked unread whereas Twitter I've never

01:08:42 ◼   ► minded the fact that i don't see them

01:08:44 ◼   ► all because you know because Twitter

01:08:47 ◼   ► your timeline isn't everything that's

01:08:48 ◼   ► directed at you specifically so you

01:08:50 ◼   ► don't feel like you are offending

01:08:52 ◼   ► as people by not reading what they

01:08:53 ◼   ► posted publicly to the world but I feel

01:08:57 ◼   ► like there's I feel like and I feel like

01:08:59 ◼   ► that's one of the great things twitter

01:09:01 ◼   ► is done over the years is resist that

01:09:03 ◼   ► urge to give you like an unread count

01:09:06 ◼   ► think that that's intentional it is and

01:09:08 ◼   ► there was so much demand for it

01:09:10 ◼   ► especially like when Twitter was like a

01:09:13 ◼   ► ditz like sort of at the point where it

01:09:16 ◼   ► was still young and malleable but was

01:09:21 ◼   ► old enough and established enough that

01:09:23 ◼   ► it was clearly going to be a huge thing

01:09:25 ◼   ► like it was it been around long enough

01:09:27 ◼   ► that everybody knew this was going to be

01:09:28 ◼   ► a big deal but it was still young enough

01:09:30 ◼   ► that they could have made changes like

01:09:32 ◼   ► kind of switch to an inbox model where

01:09:35 ◼   ► you're expected to read everything in

01:09:36 ◼   ► your in your timeline or even to have

01:09:39 ◼   ► the option that was the thing that

01:09:40 ◼   ► people would say is just give us the

01:09:42 ◼   ► option to do it that way and you can

01:09:44 ◼   ► even you know I even agree that you

01:09:46 ◼   ► should leave it off by default for most

01:09:48 ◼   ► people but give me the option to have a

01:09:49 ◼   ► read and unread count for tweets and

01:09:53 ◼   ► that was that was back when we would

01:09:54 ◼   ► like a splitter to change something and

01:09:56 ◼   ► not be scared by what they would

01:09:57 ◼   ► actually change

01:09:58 ◼   ► alright true there's a track when

01:10:01 ◼   ► changes were usually a good thing right

01:10:03 ◼   ► but I actually agree with that though

01:10:05 ◼   ► that that mindset though because I do

01:10:06 ◼   ► feel that by giving the option to do it

01:10:08 ◼   ► you you implicitly endorse it you're

01:10:11 ◼   ► saying that it's a legitimate way to use

01:10:12 ◼   ► it and they're saying no and it is sort

01:10:14 ◼   ► of like an apple type decision like you

01:10:16 ◼   ► said where they're making the decision

01:10:17 ◼   ► for you

01:10:18 ◼   ► this is the best way to read twitter is

01:10:20 ◼   ► just start with what's going on right

01:10:22 ◼   ► now and growth scroll down until you're

01:10:25 ◼   ► bored and don't worry about catching up

01:10:28 ◼   ► if you're away for a day where they dive

01:10:29 ◼   ► into this to the stream wherever it

01:10:31 ◼   ► happens to be and that's it I'm i guess

01:10:36 ◼   ► i do read all my replies

01:10:38 ◼   ► although I can't say like if I'm on

01:10:40 ◼   ► vacation or on a conference or traveling

01:10:42 ◼   ► or something that I necessarily do

01:10:44 ◼   ► sometimes it gets out of control

01:10:46 ◼   ► yeah but I don't find it that hard to do

01:10:48 ◼   ► that either

01:10:49 ◼   ► it's easy because with that replies

01:10:53 ◼   ► especially because you know like you

01:10:56 ◼   ► have that you have a pretty asymmetric

01:10:58 ◼   ► followed to follow account so i think

01:11:00 ◼   ► people people who

01:11:02 ◼   ► who reply to you on twitter probably

01:11:05 ◼   ► don't implicitly expect a response to

01:11:07 ◼   ► every one of those replies where I was

01:11:09 ◼   ► like you know with with email the kind

01:11:10 ◼   ► of this for most people there's this

01:11:12 ◼   ► implicit expectation that you're going

01:11:14 ◼   ► to respond if somebody takes the time to

01:11:16 ◼   ► compose an email to you then you know

01:11:18 ◼   ► you should probably respond if you don't

01:11:19 ◼   ► want to be a dick and and of course I

01:11:21 ◼   ► just choose to be a dick to everybody

01:11:22 ◼   ► and not respond like I can't

01:11:24 ◼   ► well and I've mentioned this before but

01:11:26 ◼   ► there is something to that's really

01:11:28 ◼   ► really it's almost like evolutionary you

01:11:31 ◼   ► know that it gets to what humans are

01:11:32 ◼   ► good at with twitter as opposed to even

01:11:39 ◼   ► email is that you can do it all with

01:11:41 ◼   ► your eyeballs because you don't have to

01:11:43 ◼   ► open a tweet to read it even matter what

01:11:46 ◼   ► your email program is if you have one

01:11:48 ◼   ► and like most super you can just keep

01:11:49 ◼   ► hitting the spacebar for example to keep

01:11:51 ◼   ► going next message next message

01:11:53 ◼   ► you still have to like move your eyes up

01:11:56 ◼   ► to the top of the screen each time and

01:11:59 ◼   ► even people who are being conscientious

01:12:00 ◼   ► and thinking well this guy's busy or

01:12:03 ◼   ► even if you don't even think somebody's

01:12:04 ◼   ► busy just the fact that it's harder to

01:12:06 ◼   ► write a concise short message then it is

01:12:08 ◼   ► a rambling one and keep it short

01:12:09 ◼   ► Twitter's enforced brevity makes it

01:12:11 ◼   ► possible for i can just read I don't

01:12:14 ◼   ► know what I'm looking at right now my

01:12:15 ◼   ► screen looks like I don't know a dozen

01:12:16 ◼   ► tweets at a time just by moving my eyes

01:12:19 ◼   ► down and it's so much faster it's like

01:12:22 ◼   ► an order of magnitude faster than even

01:12:24 ◼   ► the most efficient email right even if

01:12:27 ◼   ► everybody's email to me was tweet length

01:12:29 ◼   ► it's so much more efficient

01:12:31 ◼   ► well because tweets are constrained to

01:12:33 ◼   ► that land the clients can be designed in

01:12:35 ◼   ► a way that makes it easy to skip a whole

01:12:36 ◼   ► bunch of them as email it could be one

01:12:39 ◼   ► line or it could be some giant

01:12:41 ◼   ► newsletter with a rich layout and

01:12:43 ◼   ► pictures embedded and everything like

01:12:44 ◼   ► you don't know what to expect with email

01:12:45 ◼   ► to the clients have to have these these

01:12:47 ◼   ► you know big flexible windows and

01:12:49 ◼   ► everything and and it's just not the

01:12:50 ◼   ► same at all

01:12:51 ◼   ► yeah totally I what else is going on

01:12:56 ◼   ► this week

01:12:58 ◼   ► not much I don't know I've been busy

01:13:01 ◼   ► working on various stuff and I've kind

01:13:05 ◼   ► of been buried

01:13:07 ◼   ► I've missed most of the news i accept

01:13:08 ◼   ► the apple stock stuff it's just annoyed

01:13:10 ◼   ► me so now I'm so glad to be out of it

01:13:12 ◼   ► now

01:13:13 ◼   ► I here's here's one that I thought was

01:13:18 ◼   ► pretty interesting and I I'll there's

01:13:21 ◼   ► two points to it is this email that's

01:13:23 ◼   ► come out in a legal legal case between I

01:13:26 ◼   ► forget who also involved but the

01:13:27 ◼   ► government's investigating apple and

01:13:29 ◼   ► google a bunch of other companies in

01:13:31 ◼   ► Silicon Valley for a guy i don't know

01:13:34 ◼   ► what you want to call it legally but no

01:13:36 ◼   ► higher thing yeah like and it's like

01:13:38 ◼   ► that it's Annie legal form of collusion

01:13:40 ◼   ► that they've agreed they unofficially

01:13:43 ◼   ► agreed Adobe's involved you know that

01:13:45 ◼   ► they agreed not to poach the other

01:13:47 ◼   ► company's employees and if a guy from

01:13:50 ◼   ► every current employee of Apple came to

01:13:52 ◼   ► let's say Google and applied for a job

01:13:54 ◼   ► that guy was fair game because he

01:13:57 ◼   ► applied but that the each company's

01:13:59 ◼   ► recruiters agreed implicitly not to go

01:14:02 ◼   ► after employees at the other companies

01:14:05 ◼   ► which in itself is apparently illegal

01:14:07 ◼   ► and I you know I think for obvious

01:14:10 ◼   ► reasons it's not it might be good for

01:14:12 ◼   ► these companies but it's certainly not

01:14:13 ◼   ► good for the individual engineers you

01:14:16 ◼   ► know the right such thing in California

01:14:18 ◼   ► has really i think generally pretty good

01:14:21 ◼   ► laws on the books for and you know all

01:14:24 ◼   ► these companies are in California in

01:14:26 ◼   ► California is no non-competes those

01:14:27 ◼   ► exactly i think it goes hand and so

01:14:29 ◼   ► happened that was exactly the examples

01:14:31 ◼   ► that they don't have they don't force

01:14:33 ◼   ► non-competes they're very very liberal

01:14:34 ◼   ► and towards the engineers rights workers

01:14:38 ◼   ► rights but this the one that really

01:14:42 ◼   ► caught my eye though is this one had an

01:14:44 ◼   ► email from did you see this an email to

01:14:47 ◼   ► need jobs to add college and had

01:14:48 ◼   ► colligan being the palm CEO the pc guys

01:14:52 ◼   ► aren't about not being worried about

01:14:54 ◼   ► Apple entering the cell phone market a

01:14:56 ◼   ► couple weeks before the iphone was

01:14:57 ◼   ► announced because pc guys they've spent

01:15:00 ◼   ► a long time I trying to make a good cell

01:15:03 ◼   ► phone pc guys aren't gonna walk right in

01:15:05 ◼   ► and get it

01:15:07 ◼   ► I here's the email that Steve Jobs sent

01:15:11 ◼   ► to bed

01:15:12 ◼   ► this is not satisfactory to apple it is

01:15:17 ◼   ► not just a matter of our employees

01:15:19 ◼   ► deciding they want to join palm they are

01:15:22 ◼   ► being actively recruited using knowledge

01:15:25 ◼   ► supplied by john reuben

01:15:26 ◼   ► and Fred Anderson now that aside jon

01:15:29 ◼   ► rubinstein was I forget his title was it

01:15:33 ◼   ► next but he was one of the guys that

01:15:34 ◼   ► came over from next to apple had worked

01:15:36 ◼   ► with steve jobs for a long time and was

01:15:37 ◼   ► ahead of hardware engineering at Apple

01:15:40 ◼   ► during the early ipod era and when they

01:15:44 ◼   ► really turned around the max and made

01:15:46 ◼   ► max you know aluminum and all sorts of

01:15:49 ◼   ► stuff and he had been in retirement is

01:15:52 ◼   ► living and like a mansion down in Mexico

01:15:54 ◼   ► or something like that and palm got him

01:15:56 ◼   ► to come back to run that and Fred

01:15:57 ◼   ► Anderson was the former CFO at Apple who

01:16:01 ◼   ► kind of got thrown under the bus with