Roderick on the Line

Ep. 230: "Forest of Meat"

 

  hello [TS]

  thanks John I'm Merlin how's it going [TS]

  super good [TS]

  you sound good yeah thanks I'm [TS]

  broadcasting live from Venice California [TS]

  you sound like you have good internet [TS]

  today [TS]

  oh that's good you sound clear you sound [TS]

  like you're in a Cathedral [TS]

  oh well you know what it is i think i've [TS]

  got a little natural reverb it's it's [TS]

  got a nice it's got a nice crisp report [TS]

  to it [TS]

  well a crisp report em like this I like [TS]

  that sound good [TS]

  like the short happy life of Francis [TS]

  Macomber that'sthat's to know that the [TS]

  abortion one that's not like elephants [TS]

  em down [TS]

  I maybe i'll try on this episode maybe [TS]

  all of you know trying to sound good you [TS]

  talk about your gonna try on your end [TS]

  so I some performance i think is we [TS]

  could take that as a red right now right [TS]

  now I'm always here i got i'm in the [TS]

  moment [TS]

  yeah but yeah you people don't like when [TS]

  they can hear me typing I think my [TS]

  typing has gotten louder with cow kamap [TS]

  be well you know i'm not using my [TS]

  keyboard i'm using mine on keyboard but [TS]

  a little bit of a stay inside baseball [TS]

  and sometimes you know i'm writing [TS]

  things down that you said that with a [TS]

  friend told me no no clicking I love the [TS]

  electronic lifestyle now [TS]

  yeah i mean this is that would you tell [TS]

  panhandler you accept a bit clean but [TS]

  you know I'm putting the show together [TS]

  while the show's having everything that [TS]

  happens on the show is on the show yeah [TS]

  that's true [TS]

  thank you as I said when I just typed [TS]

  you I said there might be some [TS]

  electronical troubleshooting but you [TS]

  know that always makes for a great radio [TS]

  great radio so you're in Venice what [TS]

  well it's cold here my office is 63.9 [TS]

  degrees that's insane well sometimes if [TS]

  i run the dehumidifier heats it up a [TS]

  little bit yeah it's the middle of [TS]

  winter why should be cold [TS]

  yeah I i live a very primitive modern [TS]

  life so like my office without saying [TS]

  too much i have a heater but it's kind [TS]

  of on the [TS]

  their side of the office and it doesn't [TS]

  really reach me so it mostly really [TS]

  heats up the area right by the door I'm [TS]

  not have you tried a space heater [TS]

  I i haven't I I feel like they might be [TS]

  a dangerous scam m.o interested but I [TS]

  don't know that's one of those things [TS]

  where I feel like I need to really read [TS]

  up on it because it reached that age in [TS]

  life worry about electricity [TS]

  well let me let me just save you a [TS]

  little bit of that reading up [TS]

  okay thank you there's a kind of space [TS]

  heater which is effectively like a [TS]

  radiator like a like a like and a water [TS]

  radiator then let's take a look at [TS]

  accordion [TS]

  yeah it looks like a big accordion and [TS]

  inside is some sort of lift fluid times [TS]

  i'm guessing you know a some sort of [TS]

  whale oil [TS]

  hmm but it's completely sealed within [TS]

  and then the electrical element just [TS]

  heats up the liquid and it radiates just [TS]

  like a radiator but it's a kind of [TS]

  saying second-order heat it's not that [TS]

  kind of heat where you get basically [TS]

  like a big hair dryer doesn't scare me [TS]

  it's not that crazy dry heat there's no [TS]

  there's no element of it where if you [TS]

  knocked it over it would catch paper on [TS]

  fire [TS]

  it's just a big tall you know it's just [TS]

  a big sort of metal accordion that just [TS]

  sort of being you know radiates this [TS]

  very comfortable already mitigated heat [TS]

  it's already been mitigated by the [TS]

  Hollywood and love mitigated heat [TS]

  yeah exactly I i want to end the phrase [TS]

  I like a lot that i use occasionally I [TS]

  want to take the edge off [TS]

  I don't need the place to be hot right I [TS]

  just needed to be less cold i think [TS]

  there's a difference [TS]

  so this is a very much the edges way off [TS]

  of this heat I have one that I use in [TS]

  you've been to my home and you have [TS]

  there is a you know there's a there's a [TS]

  secondary wing what I you know what I [TS]

  call the other way and that wing when I [TS]

  first moved into the house is like the [TS]

  room under the stairs yeah but this is [TS]

  the room next to know the room under the [TS]

  stairs doesn't qualify as a wing because [TS]

  it's just one more part of the part of [TS]

  the thorax [TS]

  yeah that's right it's it's in the house [TS]

  because the wing is the is the room [TS]

  adjacent to that which is like not part [TS]

  of the house you open the door and you [TS]

  go in and there's a whole other world in [TS]

  there so that room but that sometimes if [TS]

  it's not in the thorax [TS]

  it's not benefiting from the nation heat [TS]

  of the of the birdhouse are pretty small [TS]

  right the when that when that win was [TS]

  added to the house the furnace the the [TS]

  hvac hookup was also added afterthought [TS]

  the plumbing was at in it and every time [TS]

  I let something go down the sink [TS]

  let's say I imagine the way I imagined [TS]

  the way it must travel all the way back [TS]

  to where it goes into the city drain you [TS]

  know however I never used to think about [TS]

  these things and I think I think about [TS]

  all this is something your family I feel [TS]

  like it was somebody in your family for [TS]

  generations back who worried about the [TS]

  electricity coming out of outlets wasn't [TS]

  something i said i think that was you [TS]

  but somebody friend of mine was saying [TS]

  how one of their older relatives some [TS]

  generations back worried about the [TS]

  electricity escaping from outlet and [TS]

  like getting introduced into the house [TS]

  no my people were very practical about [TS]

  scientific matters and no one would have [TS]

  no one had any superstitions not [TS]

  practical science and your family for a [TS]

  while now at just as I say it just as I [TS]

  said I realize there is no superstition [TS]

  in my family at all in any direction [TS]

  there's no it seems like there's not a [TS]

  lot of what they might be magic like [TS]

  disney magic or the magic of Christmas [TS]

  but it seems like you don't have a lot [TS]

  of magical thinking in your family [TS]

  there's a lot of crackpot thinking okay [TS]

  alright that's a nice distinction and [TS]

  some of it does extend to the spiritual [TS]

  realm of the world of God causality no [TS]

  no literally to the world observe [TS]

  spirits [TS]

  ok but I think it's more it's more a [TS]

  that it had that has to do with the [TS]

  cycle of life and have and whether or [TS]

  not the cycle of life is is monitored or [TS]

  whether the cycle of life is a [TS]

  you know whether it's whether there's an [TS]

  uncaused cause whether whether it's a [TS]

  it's a clockwork that's you know there's [TS]

  a lot of there's a lot of like kooky [TS]

  let's say cookie theory or m-theory [TS]

  essay for those of us for those [TS]

  listeners who are currently at [TS]

  universities it's it's a nude to new [TS]

  discipline cook that could carry so yeah [TS]

  but there's no no no one in my family [TS]

  would ever hear a creek in the house and [TS]

  I think I'm the only one maybe my sister [TS]

  too but no one here creak in the house [TS]

  and think it's a ghost [TS]

  no one would you know my mom would not [TS]

  hesitate to walk across its cemetery on [TS]

  a moon a moonless windy night obviously [TS]

  bring it on bring it on says says mom [TS]

  yeah she's just she's got issues on this [TS]

  side of the cemetery she's got to get to [TS]

  that side of the cemetery it's the [TS]

  quickest way you know so there's not [TS]

  there's not a ton of like that kind of [TS]

  whoo-hoo [TS]

  but if you say to my mom [TS]

  do you believe in karma [TS]

  mhm yes [TS]

  now who's running the car machine i [TS]

  don't know right she doesn't care who's [TS]

  running the car machine but she believes [TS]

  people will get theirs [TS]

  that's what people get pretty wound up [TS]

  in in the thinking less about the carmen [TS]

  more about the Machine and operator I [TS]

  think that's another nice distinction [TS]

  yeah yeah that's right that's right and [TS]

  you know and and my mom is a big [TS]

  proponent of reincarnation [TS]

  yeah he told me this yeah but not [TS]

  interested in the operation of the [TS]

  mechanism i love this [TS]

  it just is a bit it's just a feature [TS]

  just as a just as the wind or just as [TS]

  the just as the mountains or the earth [TS]

  revolving around the Sun it just is a [TS]

  it's like yeah there's a problem there's [TS]

  a mechanism to get dinner phrase on [TS]

  cargo cults a cargo cults yeah there was [TS]

  a band called cargo [TS]

  Alton well I mean the way I've heard [TS]

  this and who knows this could be it [TS]

  turns out a double turns out but we have [TS]

  heard this explain was that there was a [TS]

  point i think after World War Two where [TS]

  the United States was delivering a lot [TS]

  of aid to as the storm just the same as [TS]

  the story goes so i'm going to edit this [TS]

  for four times but because they were [TS]

  Marshall Plan aid or other kind of like [TS]

  it might have been even sooner but the [TS]

  basic idea was that there were people on [TS]

  fun very remote islands dotted around [TS]

  the Pacific who needed a lot of help [TS]

  yeah after the war and these were [TS]

  delivered by very large cargo planes [TS]

  right and so on a fairly periodic basis [TS]

  a giant plane with land and these these [TS]

  men in uniforms with headphones would [TS]

  appear and come and bring food medicine [TS]

  and and all different kinds of supplies [TS]

  and the story goes that in some of these [TS]

  places this became a kind of a guest [TS]

  religion were basically they started [TS]

  making headphones out of coconuts to [TS]

  please the gods where they started [TS]

  making out of like like Franz would make [TS]

  the equivalent of like Abby what's a [TS]

  what's a supply might be at the time you [TS]

  waiting like a big plane make a big [TS]

  plane out of Franz yeah let's let's call [TS]

  it a you know what would they have been [TS]

  it would have been a DC for okay yeah [TS]

  yeah but the the way we get to this [TS]

  though is that the story goes that the [TS]

  these visits came and and people started [TS]

  believing that it was their worship of [TS]

  the gods and the sort of totems that [TS]

  they made that were pleasing the gods [TS]

  and catch them coming back [TS]

  all right with this is true then the [TS]

  story of course the turn is that for [TS]

  years after those planes stop coming [TS]

  people continued to make the idols they [TS]

  thought they were doing something wrong [TS]

  there because now the plans seems like [TS]

  you could solve like so many things you [TS]

  could solve that with better [TS]

  communications but that's the story and [TS]

  so that's a phrase people use a lot to [TS]

  explain where why there's something we [TS]

  end [TS]

  doing and we're not sure exactly how we [TS]

  started doing it that way and especially [TS]

  like program called cargo Colton and [TS]

  it's just this idea that like like well [TS]

  why do we why do we always do it this [TS]

  one way well that's the way we've always [TS]

  done it and letting him die starvation [TS]

  yet so must be working i'm very curious [TS]

  about the way this exact kind of analogy [TS]

  makes its way into computer people talk [TS]

  yeah because it seems like every few [TS]

  weeks it is revealed to me and maybe all [TS]

  these things have been all maybe people [TS]

  have been you know analogizing this as a [TS]

  cargo cult for 25 years but it seems to [TS]

  me every every few months [TS]

  I'm an a new sort of analogous tech [TS]

  syllogism mm-hmm arrives where a somehow [TS]

  in the in the software business someone [TS]

  says oh well you know you've heard the [TS]

  phrase uh-huh you you've heard the [TS]

  phrase the Arctic sandworm haven't you [TS]

  and I'm like what's the architects and I [TS]

  don't think that's big right now a lot [TS]

  of people think about the Arctic's and [TS]

  the hard exam where mrs. you know it's a [TS]

  little bit of a mixed metaphor but well [TS]

  then I don't like the idea of the Arctic [TS]

  Sandler is but if you go somewhere [TS]

  that's very very cold it's gonna look [TS]

  like one continuous sheet of cold and [TS]

  ice right which that seems logical but [TS]

  shall continue this is a double turns [TS]

  out and what I don't know what I don't [TS]

  understand is somewhere because a lot of [TS]

  the software engineers that I know are [TS]

  not [TS]

  yeah i don't know like how would they [TS]

  know about a cargo cult let's just put [TS]

  it that way but somewhere out there I [TS]

  mean how do I not know about a cargo [TS]

  cult that seems right in my wheels right [TS]

  in your wheelhouse in but uh but [TS]

  somewhere out there there is someone who [TS]

  is trying to analogize a computer [TS]

  problem or a systems problem who also [TS]

  has in the their experience knowledge of [TS]

  cargo cult something fairly arcane and [TS]

  then also has the type of mind to relate [TS]

  the two together in order to create a [TS]

  new turn of [TS]

  yeah well this goes i think this in some [TS]

  ways goes back to a lot of jargon like [TS]

  we're jargon comes from and you know [TS]

  it's this is kind of a simplistic way to [TS]

  look at this but like when you're trying [TS]

  to talk about something like a business [TS]

  model involving software and services it [TS]

  can seem probably a little bit dry a [TS]

  little bit gray you want a way to [TS]

  physicalize or put into the real world [TS]

  what it is that you're talking about and [TS]

  cigarette up borrowing like almost like [TS]

  like loan words and phrases and stories [TS]

  and sometimes they are as they say very [TS]

  sticky which is another piece of jargon [TS]

  chicken like a cargo cult yeah [TS]

  absolutely another one might be a [TS]

  classic piece of jargon from the late [TS]

  90s was boiling the ocean is familiar [TS]

  with that one [TS]

  how you have used the phrase boiling the [TS]

  ocean before and but a lot of lot of [TS]

  this jargon by the time it gets to me [TS]

  it's already it's already a joke [TS]

  yeah you've already been using it for a [TS]

  long time and the first time I hear it [TS]

  you are already putting a ton of like [TS]

  ironic spin on it [TS]

  yeah and so I'm like boiling why is [TS]

  boiling me I think I think that's [TS]

  hilarious boiling the ocean and you're [TS]

  like is point because when the way you [TS]

  communicated to me it already contains [TS]

  the voices of the people who have said [TS]

  it to you that you have contempt for ya [TS]

  and that's partly yeah you're right [TS]

  and part of that I think comes out of [TS]

  having SAT through back in the day [TS]

  having SAT through so many meetings and [TS]

  lunches and just like conversations you [TS]

  overhear where there are these certain [TS]

  kinds of things that some very lively at [TS]

  first these bits of jargon they sound [TS]

  because they really capture a certain [TS]

  idea if you don't try to boil the ocean [TS]

  yeah I mean I'm trying to give a good [TS]

  example of this but I think for example [TS]

  that there there was for a time like for [TS]

  example before people knew better during [TS]

  the.com days people did a lot of [TS]

  sometimes they were what you might call [TS]

  a pure digital play where you might say [TS]

  hey look we're going to make this new [TS]

  way of like finding information but a [TS]

  lot of times as things got a little more [TS]

  ambitious you get like a pets.com st [TS]

  pets.com you say well like we don't [TS]

  really have anything yet but we're gonna [TS]

  head [TS]

  is this thing where you can get a 40 [TS]

  pound bag of dog food delivered to your [TS]

  house and so in you know insufficient [TS]

  just for pets [TS]

  well it could be i mean if you're hungry [TS]

  enough anything food you know but but [TS]

  like this this came up a lot like at the [TS]

  place where I work which is a real [TS]

  estate dot-com and the observed the boil [TS]

  the ocean idea it would pretty much what [TS]

  it sounds like [TS]

  which is that you know that this this [TS]

  crazy idea we have for business will [TS]

  work as long as and probably large [TS]

  number of people that we have no reason [TS]

  to believe whatever do this do this for [TS]

  way more money than we expected for way [TS]

  longer than we expected and we're going [TS]

  to put a tremendous amount of effort [TS]

  into doing something like for example [TS]

  let's say you're going to spend all this [TS]

  time getting doing research on every [TS]

  person in the united states and sending [TS]

  them exactly the right amount of coupon [TS]

  for something we're still losing money [TS]

  on every order and he's describing the [TS]

  business model of indie rock to how [TS]

  should talk about that but that's [TS]

  because the demo the demo so I'm not [TS]

  putting that particularly well but like [TS]

  that you get things like open the kimono [TS]

  which is what i'm saying i'm going to [TS]

  speak openly about this as though I was [TS]

  showing you my dick in a rope [TS]

  well that's the thing the first time you [TS]

  said open the kimono to me you know it [TS]

  it came in the middle of I think maybe [TS]

  at the time you were talking into your [TS]

  wallet yeah that was me that was [TS]

  formerly man and I was like yeah when [TS]

  you were man and I said Wow open the [TS]

  kimono and you know what it made me [TS]

  think of was Hawkeye Pierce and pj [TS]

  Honeycutt bathroom defending a man they [TS]

  were on leave in Seoul we're standing by [TS]

  their still let you know when they would [TS]

  wear literally go to Tokyo or so when [TS]

  they wear a little kimono yeah they go [TS]

  to Tokyo for for some massages [TS]

  there are from R&R and they be wearing a [TS]

  kimono in your any and so opening the [TS]

  kimono obviously like when i first heard [TS]

  it was shocking and titillating yeah um [TS]

  the first time somebody said who moved [TS]

  my cheese up w you know what you just [TS]

  did a really good hot guy impression [TS]

  right there [TS]

  ah my partner to the few but i'm just [TS]

  curious because it's a like I understand [TS]

  that business school is ninety-eight [TS]

  percent just coming up with this type of [TS]

  thing [TS]

  because there's because people are [TS]

  paying a lot of money to go to business [TS]

  school and its end there and nothing [TS]

  actually happens there except for the [TS]

  communication got a lot of questions lot [TS]

  of questions about business school [TS]

  because kind of like who moved my cheese [TS]

  level of insight into the world but but [TS]

  I don't understand when the language is [TS]

  so colorful when it's such a you know [TS]

  like a cargo cult in and of itself is a [TS]

  fascinating reference to make once in [TS]

  your lifetime you know and it requires [TS]

  so much explanation as to what it is [TS]

  that it that its usefulness is also kind [TS]

  of predicated on an idea that this is a [TS]

  very small inclusive culture just to say [TS]

  cargo cult is also not just like as a [TS]

  metaphor but it's also a code that says [TS]

  absolutely absolutely [TS]

  anyway that understands this has already [TS]

  read the wikipedia page and the only way [TS]

  they did that is that someone initiated [TS]

  them into the into the understanding of [TS]

  this representative language becomes it [TS]

  goes from being so you have looked on a [TS]

  technical basis you might have jargon [TS]

  whether certain kinds of things that [TS]

  people use as like a heuristic to get [TS]

  past a certain concept we all basically [TS]

  understand but then it goes from jargon [TS]

  to being really like a patch wha-what [TS]

  like you can you can say these phrases [TS]

  and it shows it's just like you're one [TS]

  of your Brooks Brothers suit it shows [TS]

  that you're part of the in-group when [TS]

  you're able to make the right reference [TS]

  at the right time in a non-title betide [TS]

  you if you make a reference that's too [TS]

  old because that shows that you're not [TS]

  up on the latest nobody is boiling the [TS]

  ocean these days but but but my mic for [TS]

  curiosity is where is that that being [TS]

  generated like who are mean I because I [TS]

  know a lot of people in business [TS]

  obviously don't know as many people in [TS]

  in internet business as you but they [TS]

  don't in general seem like language [TS]

  generators you know but somewhere in the [TS]

  machine [TS]

  there are people who are [TS]

  frustrated poets or yeah for sure [TS]

  somehow using this laying the using [TS]

  language this way and incorporating what [TS]

  they read into creating new language to [TS]

  describe processes I it's a I just love [TS]

  it and I wish that there was some kind [TS]

  of because it's you know it's like this [TS]

  is the etymology right and some some [TS]

  days some etymologist is going to have [TS]

  to is gonna have to wade through all [TS]

  this a beach grass to find like who did [TS]

  that come from [TS]

  I know right and it and and something [TS]

  like cargo called it feels like it has [TS]

  an originator it's not something that [TS]

  just got into the parlance by you know [TS]

  the like the same way that that so many [TS]

  of our phrases kind of come from [TS]

  Shakespeare but but forget get mangled [TS]

  on the way or from the Bible but like [TS]

  this is a this feels like one person use [TS]

  this the first time right and they were [TS]

  so clever but we don't have a record of [TS]

  his life he presented TEDTalk 0 [TS]

  it's like it's where for the the font [TS]

  from from which so much of this these [TS]

  mental models come from right not just [TS]

  the font but also the font and found [TS]

  mr.right yeah my three [TS]

  it was absolutely right baby you know i [TS]

  think i think mental models can be very [TS]

  powerful and you know is that guy the [TS]

  guy who wrote that book don't think of [TS]

  an elephant before that he'd written [TS]

  those things like off had written a book [TS]

  called metaphors we live by this whole [TS]

  deal is a Knothole deal but a lot of [TS]

  what he talks about has to do with the [TS]

  metaphors are more than just a way of [TS]

  understanding a situation that's foreign [TS]

  to us or you know that we have an [TS]

  experienced before the metaphors [TS]

  actually become a way that get sort of [TS]

  ingrained in our thinking so I don't [TS]

  have mental models exactly the right [TS]

  word but you know life is a journey you [TS]

  know that there's basically all these [TS]

  things and you might even move my cheese [TS]

  that's just definitely one of them [TS]

  but just the idea that you know I think [TS]

  what you're talking about here is that [TS]

  there's an idea that grabs you and you [TS]

  make some kind of connection in your own [TS]

  head and go i get that joke or I [TS]

  understand that reference and then it [TS]

  can be difficult to shake you know and [TS]

  and there are certain kinds of like [TS]

  pithy you know kind of almost [TS]

  Shakespearean like rhythmic little bits [TS]

  of language that people say and repeat [TS]

  and repeat over and over again and [TS]

  sometimes might it might take a few [TS]

  months for to catch on but then it might [TS]

  take a decade for people to really kind [TS]

  of unpack welcome what is that really [TS]

  what doesn't really move and is that is [TS]

  that still like that it does that [TS]

  heuristic still work as a way to explain [TS]

  the way things are happening right now [TS]

  yeah i mean i imagine like a phrase like [TS]

  rat race [TS]

  there was a time when only people i mean [TS]

  you know that that probably came you [TS]

  know rat race is one of those things [TS]

  where it might have come from a [TS]

  Elizabethan England when people actually [TS]

  were racing rats but it also could be a [TS]

  thing that entered the lexicon in the [TS]

  fifties when scientists were doing a lot [TS]

  of experiments on on rats in mazes and I [TS]

  bet it's I bet it's just the way that I [TS]

  mean I'm soon as now there's certainly [TS]

  going to be a double or triple or [TS]

  quadruple turns out here but I imagine [TS]

  it's what it looks like when you watch a [TS]

  bunch of people moving through manhattan [TS]

  it looks like a bunch of rats racing [TS]

  well sure but it but in order to in [TS]

  order to make the connection i wonder if [TS]

  at that at in its earliest stages [TS]

  whether rat race was also a little bit [TS]

  of insider language in that you had to [TS]

  be educated enough to understand that [TS]

  scientists were like not not just [TS]

  observing humans in the like a level one [TS]

  of my time trying to get like a like [TS]

  because we use well and went against a [TS]

  long time but like habit trails you [TS]

  remember when I want everybody have a [TS]

  trail when everybody had a Habitrail and [TS]

  and there and there it was a very [TS]

  popular that was that was piqued Amster [TS]

  yeah very popular a analogy in its time [TS]

  to think of yourself as a hamster on a [TS]

  wheel [TS]

  for a hamster within a Habitrail which [TS]

  you know which meant that you were [TS]

  exploring your whole environment you had [TS]

  this whole environment you lived in but [TS]

  you weren't cognizant of the fact that [TS]

  this was just a let the wheel wasn't [TS]

  going anywhere [TS]

  yeah i miss that this and it was an ant [TS]

  farm and that's another one that but you [TS]

  don't use and far more Habitrail [TS]

  references anymore because nobody has in [TS]

  farms or rabbit trails like those pads [TS]

  have passed [TS]

  yeah but i wonder i mean there are a lot [TS]

  of things I think that we use that that [TS]

  the analogy was at one point in time [TS]

  sort of predicated on on being a member [TS]

  of us much smaller group that understood [TS]

  that scientists were working on rats or [TS]

  that understood what a what a what some [TS]

  of these you know like school hoops or [TS]

  whatever but like I mean like maybe a [TS]

  common one would be all the various [TS]

  spins on point I'm going to remember [TS]

  words always right in front of you BF [TS]

  Skinner and Pavlov some all the [TS]

  variations online like a pigeon checking [TS]

  for a pellet which is another kind of in [TS]

  some ways related to the cargo cult idea [TS]

  or the idea of the Pavlovian response [TS]

  right that have lost dog got ya jus like [TS]

  a like exactly how we were and and I [TS]

  remember first being introduced to that [TS]

  concept and having to have pavlof [TS]

  explain to me and it's pretty gruesome [TS]

  experiment when you really read about it [TS]

  you know you know about this [TS]

  yeah we're just sitting here with a shot [TS]

  glass trying to capture spill I think [TS]

  they actually cut a hole into the dog [TS]

  and then put like a special channel in [TS]

  there so they can capture scientifically [TS]

  well you gotta captured scientifically [TS]

  that's why you get around a label [TS]

  science [TS]

  listen if you can't if you can't find a [TS]

  reason to cut a hole into a dog I don't [TS]

  think you're doing science that's a [TS]

  really good point about a champ for a [TS]

  monkey but we should be sure you cut [TS]

  monkeys a coconut monkeys right and left [TS]

  not that sounds like an indie-rock term [TS]

  right coming up monkey [TS]

  haha cutting monkeys if i don't hear [TS]

  that yeah we described eternity and [TS]

  Craft services by the by the end I was [TS]

  cutting out Monkees well i think i think [TS]

  it's going to be much more thing where a [TS]

  guy in a boardroom who's not wearing a [TS]

  tie [TS]

  because because real rich people don't [TS]

  have to wear times [TS]

  alright well i'm going to start [TS]

  capturing i will be typing here I must [TS]

  examine a few of these that we might be [TS]

  able to introduce as a service to our [TS]

  listeners these are some potentially [TS]

  context-free jargon phrases I really is [TS]

  a little bit of a letterman bit here but [TS]

  if they come up i would like to have [TS]

  some some new phrases that we could [TS]

  encourage people for the year 2017 to [TS]

  start introducing in their life and you [TS]

  can decide what it means [TS]

  yeah i think that cutting cutting a hole [TS]

  in a dog uh-huh that's real good cut [TS]

  monkeys [TS]

  ok also good and I think those represent [TS]

  very different business processes [TS]

  uh-huh um you got to cut a hole like [TS]

  these are really grounded in fiscal how [TS]

  about maybe like put your head in the [TS]

  freezer put your well so here's the [TS]

  thing this is actually a good analogy [TS]

  ok i was reading the other day that if [TS]

  you have mods in your cashmere and [TS]

  models in your cashmere [TS]

  mm that's another one guy that got it if [TS]

  you have models in your cashmere don't [TS]

  be alarmed now it's just bringing in a [TS]

  queen [TS]

  one thing you should do respect what you [TS]

  can do is put your cashmere in the [TS]

  freezer [TS]

  oh I know I know it's serious ok that's [TS]

  all so so I don't want to use kashmir [TS]

  and all these things right let down that [TS]

  I did it as a possible John that [TS]

  everything we have to learn can be found [TS]

  in the lyrics of led zeppelin to do I [TS]

  believe it i believe i have already [TS]

  lived this philosopher Gary and one word [TS]

  my will sustain it's all it's all [TS]

  connected with confounded bridge it's [TS]

  all in less that far ahead of this [TS]

  yeah so so put your role in the freezer [TS]

  let's call the phrase alright which one [TS]

  the fries right that so that's like not [TS]

  just a prophylactic [TS]

  it's also the Emergency Response this [TS]

  the same time Lucinda had some of these [TS]

  feel like they could be from Silicon [TS]

  Valley boardroom where they might be for [TS]

  Will Rogers right [TS]

  wow what will countries would say put [TS]

  your woman freezer right okay i'll let [TS]

  you win the freezer about me sometimes [TS]

  even a Dirt Farmer needs to fill the [TS]

  tractor from that too long even a Dirt [TS]

  Farmer needs two yeah we got a short in [TS]

  that down ok alright umm hmmm what could [TS]

  it be [TS]

  let's see your your heart will break [TS]

  your glasses because you don't like the [TS]

  movie [TS]

  don't break your glasses because you [TS]

  don't like the movie you know I think we [TS]

  got lots jazz it up don't sit on your [TS]

  glasses because you don't like the mad [TS]

  about that don't sell your glasses that [TS]

  make you know that don't sell your [TS]

  glasses because you don't like the movie [TS]

  see that but those are that's stretching [TS]

  a little bit you want something that's [TS]

  gonna be a lot picture that's not boil [TS]

  the ocean [TS]

  ya know boil the ocean that should be [TS]

  our thing we can make a little more [TS]

  mysterious we could just say things like [TS]

  yet jiggle the handle [TS]

  ok jiggle the handle there you go put [TS]

  that down right i mean this is all the [TS]

  thing is this is just blue sky solution [TS]

  earring at this point we're just we're [TS]

  just putting ideas on the board [TS]

  yeah right i don't take your windshield [TS]

  wipers off despite the rain [TS]

  ok i'll spit into the wind will not pull [TS]

  the mask off the old lone ranger right [TS]

  and don't mess around we don't mess [TS]

  around with jim that's number three [TS]

  you know what don't mess around with jim [TS]

  is a is a pretty good i I can't remember [TS]

  i wasn't trafficking in adult life in [TS]

  the seventies amongst adults who would [TS]

  say things like don't mess around with [TS]

  jim mhm you know like the adults that [TS]

  were standing around me who's a language [TS]

  i was trying to pick up on they weren't [TS]

  wearing blue jeans you know what I mean [TS]

  right [TS]

  I barely knew anyone that any adult [TS]

  person who had ever worn blue jeans I [TS]

  did the home dungarees a yeah I believe [TS]

  you know my dad certainly didn't wasn't [TS]

  going to wear a pair of dungarees [TS]

  don't know a lot of John I've known [TS]

  Bobby I've done a lot of adults like [TS]

  this [TS]

  I've known thinkin of the father of a [TS]

  lady friend of mine whose father wore a [TS]

  suit for everything and like when it was [TS]

  time for him to dress up for Halloween [TS]

  he wore a suit buddy a towel and said [TS]

  that he was a chic haha because he [TS]

  couldn't suffer the idea of appearing [TS]

  anywhere not in at that time a [TS]

  three-piece suit right [TS]

  what I think I've told you the story [TS]

  almost certainly I have the that at [TS]

  Christmastime in 1984 or something i had [TS]

  been introduced to Levis but my mom was [TS]

  telling the story the other day where [TS]

  she said you know in 1983 or something I [TS]

  took Susan my sister who is my mom [TS]

  talking she took her to the thrift store [TS]

  because my sister was a punk rocker and [TS]

  my mom said you know go crazy you can [TS]

  buy as much much stuff it in this thrift [TS]

  store as you want and so Susan bought 15 [TS]

  bags of of like a bebop dresses or their [TS]

  dollar the dollar went a long way at a [TS]

  thrift store at that time [TS]

  oh my god and there was so much genius [TS]

  stuff because there was an unless you're [TS]

  getting a suit you might spend three to [TS]

  six dollars on a suit but like but [TS]

  really two dollars was the most you [TS]

  would spend on a shirt for example three [TS]

  other pair of pants and hipsters weren't [TS]

  really there yet in all mass and so [TS]

  through stores were full of fifties [TS]

  Levi's all this was the case let's be [TS]

  honest had recently died you're getting [TS]

  quality stuff from people with good [TS]

  taste [TS]

  well and also a up to a certain point [TS]

  there was no what we would call now bad [TS]

  stuff you know like all that stuff was [TS]

  handmade somewhere in new york city by a [TS]

  in in like a in the garment district [TS]

  even the cheap clothes were like i used [TS]

  a diff told you this but I used to have [TS]

  a to focus Ryan is developing like [TS]

  collections and there was cautioned not [TS]

  to remember now but you for years [TS]

  jcpenney had a line of like basically [TS]

  not not not feel somewhat the kind of a [TS]

  little bit like Pendleton they had like [TS]

  these really nice like plaid [TS]

  work shirts that they made for years the [TS]

  name is escaping me but for years and [TS]

  years if you I would just look through [TS]

  the labels and look for those and find [TS]

  those because they were always really [TS]

  great i call paul westerberg sure it's [TS]

  clear Paul Westerberg whenever one of [TS]

  these but that was a terrific shirt and [TS]

  this is in the days before the ground [TS]

  she got understand for the gun and [TS]

  everything [TS]

  oh yeah before the crunch so she goes [TS]

  and she buys shoes bags dresses well and [TS]

  so she was mocking me in this [TS]

  conversation this conversation happened [TS]

  a week ago by the way and she said yeah [TS]

  and at that point in time jon was always [TS]

  you know he was in his preppy phase and [TS]

  so he had to go to nordstrom and for the [TS]

  cost of three garbage bags full of [TS]

  sixties close that Susan Bobby Jon only [TS]

  got one shirt long haul and I said let [TS]

  me set the record straight here [TS]

  first of all I never owned a shirt with [TS]

  a logo on it because my mom even at the [TS]

  time would have mocked me mercilessly [TS]

  for their own smiling alligator shirt [TS]

  yeah I made smile and alligators instead [TS]

  and second of all the only time my mom [TS]

  ever took me to nordstrom was during [TS]

  their half-yearly men sale that happened [TS]

  like basically right about now right [TS]

  after Christmas and I was you know I was [TS]

  allowed to shop in certain sections and [TS]

  I i was constantly going to school [TS]

  everybody else had my keys with a red [TS]

  stripe and I was wearing stay Diaz or [TS]

  some shoes that have to remember that [TS]

  they had a whale on WIC and I had a [TS]

  wonderful was Montgomery Ward's or [TS]

  pennies but what I mean the thing is [TS]

  this is the time when you had to have [TS]

  you are in a key person or you were in a [TS]

  devious person or you were a weirdo and [TS]

  most of the kids were making people [TS]

  having you sure she didn't have a whale [TS]

  or a fox on had a pair for monkey Ward's [TS]

  that had four stripes instead of three [TS]

  on a little worse for the upside down [TS]

  almost swoosh around 1981 one of the [TS]

  brands the department store brand [TS]

  started putting it was like a swoosh but [TS]

  it was like it was Drew's going upside [TS]

  down and not quite a solution in sight [TS]

  I mean ye you're better off you're [TS]

  better off you know you know where [TS]

  napkins on your feet look like such chod [TS]

  I would and and so this is this is the [TS]

  the like the fashion [TS]

  the the like wasteful fashion maven that [TS]

  I supposedly was when i was in ninth [TS]

  grade just desperately trying not to get [TS]

  thrown into a pot of boiling oil and I [TS]

  was already not i was nowhere even in [TS]

  the running [TS]

  I just didn't want to wear things like [TS]

  you're saying that were that were [TS]

  visibly knockoffs of a thing right now [TS]

  and and so is it because it looks like [TS]

  here's the thing it looks like you think [TS]

  you're pulling it off and there's [TS]

  nothing that makes you look weaker than [TS]

  not pulling off something in acting like [TS]

  you're pulling it off [TS]

  yeah let you either that you're pulling [TS]

  it off or that you are so blind to what [TS]

  constitutes good that you think there's [TS]

  no difference which is even a worse a [TS]

  like thing to put on you write that [TS]

  you're just like all these are these [TS]

  have a red stripe [TS]

  uh-huh and you don't even have the like [TS]

  the the visual information processing [TS]

  power to know that the stripe is upside [TS]

  down and there's a time in your life [TS]

  that where you can imagine like you know [TS]

  if somebody did buy you a pair of $15 [TS]

  shoes that the wrong stripes on you feel [TS]

  like what is wrong with you [TS]

  you'd be like that that's how I feel [TS]

  today like I still don't know who Nelly [TS]

  is oh yeah [TS]

  either you know the feeling that like [TS]

  there's dunno where it happened but I [TS]

  pass through some some kind of long [TS]

  hallway at some point and I just know [TS]

  what the fuck's going on anymore [TS]

  well I it was also a time of course when [TS]

  you couldn't if somebody bought you a [TS]

  fifteen dollar pair of shoes you [TS]

  couldn't not wear them [TS]

  oh come on right it's not like you're [TS]

  it's not like you're going to put them [TS]

  in the closet and never touch them [TS]

  because they're female and you know you [TS]

  have to look at it when you go and get a [TS]

  job you can go by your $40 necks exactly [TS]

  anyway so it looks like nice nice [TS]

  immediately six months after this you [TS]

  know this particular moment when my mom [TS]

  is describing me as like the the biggest [TS]

  most wasteful like land pig she'd ever [TS]

  seen and I was I had figured out [TS]

  oh you can buy preppy clothes at thrift [TS]

  stores too and then you know but [TS]

  apparently I still in in my men my mom's [TS]

  version of the world i'm still like this [TS]

  guy of throwing money at izod shirt so I [TS]

  don't even know there's this thing [TS]

  she'll never [TS]

  visual acuity maybe she thought my smile [TS]

  an alligator really was a anyway all [TS]

  worse than a snob on a budget think so [TS]

  all this is to describe that moment when [TS]

  I had gotten hip to Levis finally yeah [TS]

  and i bought online what are we talkin [TS]

  here eighties nineties never known him [TS]

  for mid eighties I resisted them for a [TS]

  while until things when they were still [TS]

  this is when they were still I mean [TS]

  levis are costly now but you could do [TS]

  you get you some twenty dollar Levi's [TS]

  back then [TS]

  well but also their world there were so [TS]

  many rules about wearing Levi's because [TS]

  they were the only jeans other than [TS]

  Wranglers with nobody was gonna wear or [TS]

  they survived the great gene Wars mm I [TS]

  mean that they were always going to be [TS]

  wrangler and Lee people and yeah but but [TS]

  Levi's really emerged as the go-to they [TS]

  started as the go-to denim brand and [TS]

  ended as to go to denim brand and partly [TS]

  I think this no I don't want to get into [TS]

  too much of it turns out here I'm not [TS]

  gonna go freakonomics on this [TS]

  go ahead i think it well i think in the [TS]

  same way that there was backlash against [TS]

  Disko because of homophobia and racism I [TS]

  think in some ways that was giant [TS]

  backlash against designer jeans because [TS]

  they they seem snooty right and and [TS]

  being well and they seemed kind of disco [TS]

  the idea of spending forty dollars or [TS]

  eighty dollars on a funeral gloria [TS]

  vanderbilt jeans writer Jordache guess [TS]

  jeans Caliban and the thing is a lot of [TS]

  people are listening they're not [TS]

  understanding because now of course [TS]

  there are a thousand kinds of very [TS]

  expensive jeans now get Levi's in the [TS]

  fifty dollars and it that's that's like [TS]

  some of the less expensive brand jeans [TS]

  oh dude you can spend 250 dollars on a [TS]

  pair of jeans just I could I could I [TS]

  could throw a baseball from where I'm [TS]

  sitting and hit a pair $215 jeans for [TS]

  sale you got a good arm [TS]

  well you know yeah i'm also sitting [TS]

  pretty darn close to an expensive jeans [TS]

  place I was Alexander sent me some new [TS]

  jeans [TS]

  yeah and then I found out what they cost [TS]

  and I was a little bit beside myself [TS]

  we've talked about this before the the [TS]

  arrival on the scene of the seven from [TS]

  mankind jeans that suddenly made [TS]

  everybody's butt look good [TS]

  and and prior to that i really do think [TS]

  in these terms that prior to that moment [TS]

  the 720 mankind like technology but [TS]

  technology but shaping technology and [TS]

  jeans I still don't understand how it [TS]

  works but there was a there was a time [TS]

  before this when you [TS]

  mm when you look across a cityscape [TS]

  looking at but as I so often did yeah [TS]

  you saw a whole range of butts up [TS]

  monopoly of butts and some were good and [TS]

  some were bad and some of the square and [TS]

  some looked you know like pears and [TS]

  there were there it was a sense of much [TS]

  more ambivalent some somebody for [TS]

  ambitious it was a great American [TS]

  melting pot it was a color wheel of [TS]

  butts and then this gene technology came [TS]

  out I just still I still AM amazed by it [TS]

  i do not know what exactly happened [TS]

  where it was some kind of placement of [TS]

  the pockets and some sort of addition of [TS]

  a couple of percentage points of spandex [TS]

  into the been to the levis are so I [TS]

  don't know what happened but all of a [TS]

  sudden all but look the same and it was [TS]

  and it was a good same like they had [TS]

  achieved they achieve this but not just [TS]

  making but look good but then i made it [TS]

  accessible to every like about [TS]

  singularity well a little bit like you [TS]

  look around here like that that's that [TS]

  the women or maybe but definitely [TS]

  nobody's butt looks heinous nobody's [TS]

  butt looks things and everyone everyone [TS]

  wants their but to look good even if [TS]

  they don't say it [TS]

  they're thinking it i think everybody [TS]

  yeah and a bloody bored aren't brave [TS]

  enough to say I remember walking with a [TS]

  girl a girl I was dating at the time [TS]

  this is many many years ago early early [TS]

  nineties and I was in a group of friends [TS]

  like seven guys that were all my friends [TS]

  one of them was somewhat somebody's [TS]

  little brother but you know it was like [TS]

  a bunch of guys that I considered 11 of [TS]

  my groups of friends and we're walking [TS]

  along she's very fashionable girl and [TS]

  she and I are bringing up the rear [TS]

  if you will and she says just kind of [TS]

  you know casually out of the side of her [TS]

  mouth she's like eight guys I'm not a [TS]

  single good at [TS]

  Wow and I looked at it I looked ahead [TS]

  and all of a sudden all these friends of [TS]

  mine like they just stay where they went [TS]

  from color to black and white [TS]

  I was like oh my god she's right there's [TS]

  not a single good but in the group and I [TS]

  wouldn't have noticed because each but [TS]

  was different and I was appreciating [TS]

  like the whole you know this guy likes [TS]

  this guy has already adopted that weird [TS]

  super big big pants thing that we may be [TS]

  using a little bit more forest entry [TS]

  yeah this guy over here's gotta chew can [TS]

  ring in his pants like they haven't [TS]

  really figured it all out and she just [TS]

  said like an eight guys are not a good [TS]

  but in the bunch and then of course the [TS]

  second thought i had was like ah through [TS]

  what about my body [TS]

  that's right am I can I be so lucky as [TS]

  to be the best but in this group that [TS]

  seems a lot mean that seems a little bit [TS]

  risky to think it's amazing how you can [TS]

  go from not knowing about something to [TS]

  have it being the most important thing [TS]

  in your life in like half a second [TS]

  well and she's going out with me right [TS]

  so she obviously it matters enough that [TS]

  she would have chosen my book so from [TS]

  that moment from 1991 to the present i [TS]

  have always carried around with me a [TS]

  sense confirmed by many like fishing [TS]

  expeditions fishing expeditions by which [TS]

  i mean do these pants look good on me [TS]

  uh-huh yeah they were good i mean to [TS]

  look like great on me [TS]

  oh yeah they look fine uh-huh I mean [TS]

  here check it from this angle or is this [TS]

  good pair pants [TS]

  yeah and it's like i'm i'm i'm i'm [TS]

  including that data in my in my general [TS]

  survey for calculating a notion that you [TS]

  might have a good but though i'm [TS]

  calculating a notion that i have on a [TS]

  fine buck on okay one acceptable [TS]

  yeah one that passes muster enough that [TS]

  no one's gonna walk behind me and say [TS]

  like you or or or worse nobody's gonna [TS]

  walk behind me and just not notice much [TS]

  about your not a grotesquerie but you're [TS]

  not going to win any contest [TS]

  well because and I've I've floated this [TS]

  balloon enough time [TS]

  and have really never once gotten a [TS]

  single like oh yeah those pants look [TS]

  good and I'm not it not maybe in that [TS]

  tender maybe an octave up but but still [TS]

  like enough I i I've taken enough [TS]

  surveys to know that if people are [TS]

  physically coming coming me it isn't for [TS]

  that reason [TS]

  okay but i have never adopted modern [TS]

  gene technology either i continue to [TS]

  wear a dumpy Levi's which do not [TS]

  actually fit [TS]

  yeah my frame right so maybe if I was [TS]

  our pants leave as our process with 12 [TS]

  about this and at the time in the early [TS]

  eighties right people were ironing their [TS]

  Levi's to perfection [TS]

  oh so back to my original point i bought [TS]

  my dad a pair of Levi's I've i think i'm [TS]

  sure i've told you this i bought my dad [TS]

  apparently vies for Christmas like here [TS]

  you go dad like get with the times a [TS]

  little bit and join the Pepsi generation [TS]

  yeah I'm 14 years old or something as [TS]

  though my dad's never seen a pair of [TS]

  jeans and I'm like hey man these for you [TS]

  know you don't have one of these and we [TS]

  gonna do about this like a lot of kids [TS]

  are listening to heavy metal [TS]

  I'm I'm not gonna turn you on to a new [TS]

  thing to Levis pants and my dad opens [TS]

  the opens the package and it was like [TS]

  that one time one time many many moons [TS]

  ago where i bought a girlfriend of mine [TS]

  a gold chain i was in new york city and [TS]

  i bought this very delicate little gold [TS]

  chain at one of those stores on on [TS]

  forty-second Street where it's just a [TS]

  guy sitting in there with a loop on his [TS]

  classes land sure and he's got a smoking [TS]

  a cigar and you're like I want to buy a [TS]

  gold chain he's like alright and i [TS]

  bought this gold chain and I gave it to [TS]

  her on her birthday or something and she [TS]

  opened the package and looked at me [TS]

  looked immediately up at me and said do [TS]

  you do not know me at all like oh oh I [TS]

  spent a lot of money on that [TS]

  no every way so I my dad opens this box [TS]

  and there's a pair of Levi's in there [TS]

  and I'm like those are called Levi's dad [TS]

  they're like a thing that everybody's [TS]

  wearing now [TS]

  get with the times you know they're very [TS]

  versatile and my dad said looked up in [TS]

  the same way as as a my old girlfriend [TS]

  and said I'm not an enlisted man I don't [TS]

  dress like an enlisted man [TS]

  w-whoa another man that one to the list [TS]

  don't dress like an enlisted man and an [TS]

  enlisted man right he said I'm an [TS]

  officer I wear khaki I work for a living [TS]

  and it was something from the United [TS]

  States maybe in 1948 does a whole [TS]

  different signification for him yeah [TS]

  it's a it wasn't a swabbie you for your [TS]

  time ago with a mop on on deck [TS]

  yeah you're an NCO the and if you're you [TS]

  know your casual work clothes if you're [TS]

  an NCO were dungarees pants for semen [TS]

  and if you and your formal outfits to [TS]

  our blue pants blue wool pants and the [TS]

  officers were always in in khaki pants [TS]

  either casual or or when they're in [TS]

  their dress uniforms and it was [TS]

  something that had been baked into him [TS]

  at a very very young age and I think he [TS]

  he i think that that back in nineteen [TS]

  the nineteen-thirties that was that had [TS]

  already been true in the Navy for so [TS]

  long that it was understood you know [TS]

  like the introduction I think of khaki [TS]

  pants into the culture only came through [TS]

  the Navy Wow turns out that's a good one [TS]

  and the end the introduction [TS]

  introduction of blue jeans really you [TS]

  know they came off of the farm but they [TS]

  came out of AI mean and the story goes [TS]

  in in this neck of the woods that the [TS]

  levi strauss basically there was a [TS]

  demand amongst gold miners and the [TS]

  people who are making money off of gold [TS]

  miners for something more sturdy and he [TS]

  started making them out of the canvas of [TS]

  tense is well the story goes like this [TS]

  so that's that's where the original I [TS]

  think blue jeans come from or so [TS]

  levis are from San Francisco so everyone [TS]

  in San Francisco knows the whole story [TS]

  like probably I think technically my [TS]

  amendments everything I mean obviously [TS]

  that's where their base but I mean the [TS]

  old country is where people were buying [TS]

  them out east of here but you know but [TS]

  the thing is the here's the thing [TS]

  ah I think I know that I'm older than a [TS]

  lot of our listeners but I wasn't [TS]

  allowed to wear jeans to school [TS]

  that's right i'm not trying to cheat me [TS]

  like jeans or dungarees as my [TS]

  grandmother called them that was that [TS]

  was something you would wear to like you [TS]

  know plant tomatoes that is not [TS]

  something you wear anywhere about at the [TS]

  house we're going to like a picnic you [TS]

  know come on england all the boys wear [TS]

  shorts and like a short pants how you [TS]

  know somebody still a kid [TS]

  it's better down there they're just put [TS]

  that on the list what's that short pants [TS]

  is how you know someone still a kid [TS]

  I'm not enlisted man i'm not an enlisted [TS]

  man yeah my mom used to talk about in [TS]

  the nineteen fifties that all the [TS]

  fashionable girls you would never of [TS]

  course wear this to school but you know [TS]

  on the weekends you would wear your [TS]

  brother's jeans and your brother's white [TS]

  dress shop that is cute isn't that is so [TS]

  cute but you know that required that [TS]

  your brother's jeans and brothers white [TS]

  dress shirt only be slightly bigger than [TS]

  you [TS]

  it was when people were much more people [TS]

  sometimes I learned this at goodwill in [TS]

  the in the eighties is is all people are [TS]

  small [TS]

  yeah and they were small they were like [TS]

  echo small people didn't people didn't [TS]

  really get big until at least the [TS]

  seventies if you look at if you look at [TS]

  pictures of people in the film which of [TS]

  course we all do [TS]

  yes the standard seems to be that the [TS]

  man be what three inches taller than the [TS]

  woman yeah and maybe like just slightly [TS]

  better known like not not even any more [TS]

  broad I think somebody had to stand on [TS]

  an Apple box look at it look at it had [TS]

  to stand on an Apple box keep getting me [TS]

  what you're about to put your booking an [TS]

  Apple box but that's the that's that's [TS]

  as who moved my cheese any um but you [TS]

  know like for me to for me to be [TS]

  standing next to my leading lady [TS]

  where I'm three inches taller than her [TS]

  she would have to be a very large woman [TS]

  and if you think about Archie comics [TS]

  right moose and mid that was played for [TS]

  laughs [TS]

  moose pigment bridges small wall [TS]

  contrast but you know but moose was [TS]

  probably 595 an amazing person it's like [TS]

  a senior Jackson thing [TS]

  yeah yeah it's like Peter Jackson [TS]

  sometimes forced perspective and you do [TS]

  if everything's the same size everything [TS]

  used to be smaller they talk about this [TS]

  now I'm not trying to be anything is but [TS]

  then talk today about how you get for [TS]

  Americans you gotta make seats bigger [TS]

  write it like if you when you try to put [TS]

  people of our time on to a ferry for [TS]

  example some kind of conveyance that was [TS]

  built in another generation they don't [TS]

  fit you gotta get a retro the retrofit [TS]

  the ferry you okay right now went down [TS]

  at camera fairy might you know a lot of [TS]

  my people in the show business [TS]

  mhm this was an interesting thing i [TS]

  learned many years ago from a from a [TS]

  booking agent with someone that we would [TS]

  call a buyer which is to say someone [TS]

  that's booking a club not a cellar which [TS]

  is a booking agent that represents a [TS]

  band talking now learn some jargon this [TS]

  is yeah so so yeah so booking agent at a [TS]

  club is buying the artist and the and [TS]

  the booking age of the worst form of [TS]

  course is selling ok so a buyer once [TS]

  told me because I at many years ago [TS]

  probably 2003 i started to be able to [TS]

  estimate the capacity of a club pretty [TS]

  easily from the back of the room you [TS]

  know you and it's a skill that you have [TS]

  to learn when you're in the business [TS]

  because you walk into the room you're [TS]

  like oh this place can you know this is [TS]

  a capacity 320 and then the the booking [TS]

  agent walks up and he's like a capacity [TS]

  so you're doing you did a little bit of [TS]

  arithmetic based on things like [TS]

  guarantees and things like that right or [TS]

  less like estimated like what you can [TS]

  expect to make that night right what [TS]

  would constitute to sell out here [TS]

  ok is the thing that everybody really [TS]

  cares about you know and if it if he's [TS]

  saying it's a sellout [TS]

  and he says the capacities 275 then [TS]

  that's how he's gonna settle with you [TS]

  people 320 people in that room it's [TS]

  something you should know i got it [TS]

  are you picking me up are you reading me [TS]

  loud and clear oh yeah you're [TS]

  five-by-five you sound great gonna hurt [TS]

  somebody don't find my five mins yeah I [TS]

  heard somebody coughing and I heard that [TS]

  when i'm guessing it's probably lacroix [TS]

  opening at one point [TS]

  yeah but no sound great you sound like [TS]

  you're in a Cathedral 55 is an [TS]

  indication of the strength and volume of [TS]

  your signal [TS]

  Wow can I learned something good that's [TS]

  pretty good jargon huh well so the buyer [TS]

  was saying the capacity of this room at [TS]

  a of montreal show or the capacity of [TS]

  this room at the boards of canada show [TS]

  is about 200 more people than the [TS]

  capacity of this room at a Melvin show [TS]

  or a mastodon show and it's not all i [TS]

  see interesting [TS]

  yeah he said at an indie rock concert i [TS]

  can put so many more people in this room [TS]

  because the people are themselves [TS]

  smaller whoa and a at like a heavy metal [TS]

  show an old-school rockabilly punk rock [TS]

  show that the fans themselves are so [TS]

  like demonstrable a larger people that [TS]

  it cuts the capacity of this room by a [TS]

  couple hundred and he's not a big room [TS]

  huh [TS]

  um and I was just like that cannot [TS]

  possibly be true and he said you know [TS]

  come to two shows and tell me I mean [TS]

  tell me your experience and of course [TS]

  I've been to all those shows and you [TS]

  know it's absolutely true there are rock [TS]

  shows that i can go to where I have a [TS]

  perfect line of sight of the stage no [TS]

  matter where i'm standing in the room [TS]

  because the average size is 58 of the [TS]

  people at the show [TS]

  and Montreal attracts a pretty pretty [TS]

  slight slight of build right right near [TS]

  our as if i go to a mastodon show huh i [TS]

  feel like i am enough i'm like in a [TS]

  forest of meat like i can't i can't [TS]

  necessarily see the stage because there [TS]

  are there are like tents in leather [TS]

  jackets standing all around me and and [TS]

  that's that's astonishing and that's the [TS]

  type of thing that is you know across [TS]

  other like using that as a metaphor [TS]

  it's very hard now days to not get into [TS]

  tricky territory when you start talking [TS]

  about audiences for things for you I [TS]

  think it's better to probably yeah [TS]

  mhm but it's you know people in the [TS]

  people in the world of show business are [TS]

  saying are having you know this this guy [TS]

  is saying I can't put the I can't put [TS]

  max capacity in this room I'm losing [TS]

  money [TS]

  um because they're just as a root for [TS]

  the people that's a strange constraint [TS]

  UK oh yeah I'm great I was just opening [TS]

  a look Roy and I wasn't really but i [TS]

  have a have a mute button here [TS]

  oh that's terrific Oh huh i have a mute [TS]

  button now and I'm I'm learning to use [TS]

  it because I even I've heard over the [TS]

  years that it's something that you [TS]

  should learn to use haha and I mean I'm [TS]

  still gonna clear my throat on the [TS]

  program that's that you know everything [TS]

  within the shell is part of the show [TS]

  yeah I'm you I'm unified urinate and I [TS]

  right if I make coffee right now I'm [TS]

  unify open a new trick I'm still on my [TS]

  just at the tail end of my coffee and I [TS]

  got the same same same cells right here [TS]

  yeah i'm gonna get conventional isn't [TS]

  done this is your craft John you know [TS]

  somebody who's not afraid to cut up some [TS]

  monkeys you you know that this is your [TS]

  craft and you're always working to [TS]

  improve it [TS]

  let me explain you know i'm i'm i'm [TS]

  recording from from California as I say [TS]

  and so my situation has changed quite a [TS]

  bit i'm i'm using a computer that's that [TS]

  doesn't belong to me right now because [TS]

  although i have my mobile podcast rig [TS]

  that I carry with me everywhere I [TS]

  invariably forget one key component of [TS]

  it every time one time I forgot the cord [TS]

  that hooks my mic to the computer one [TS]

  time I forgot my headphones and now [TS]

  twice I've forgotten the power cable for [TS]

  the computer links don't work but takes [TS]

  the the very I see what you're saying [TS]

  LOL so your dongle hell right so here i [TS]

  am i'm recording on a macbook air [TS]

  normally i have a macbook row is that [TS]

  what it is and the and the two power [TS]

  cables never the twain shall meet [TS]

  because their debut know they're [TS]

  separated by two years or something and [TS]

  so it's separated by six months and then [TS]

  having like you know turn and so it [TS]

  anyway so my experience here is is [TS]

  different in two crucial ways one there [TS]

  is almond milk in my coffee instead of [TS]

  cream [TS]

  I don't think that's really melt it's [TS]

  not at all an open all right there are [TS]

  certain kinds of vegetarians I think now [TS]

  where every single thing they eat eat is [TS]

  made of almonds in the same way that it [TS]

  used to be made of soy beans and tofu [TS]

  right behind the day but now you can get [TS]

  an almond Loaf baked in almond milk [TS]

  covered with almond cheese you know what [TS]

  the with some almond chicken wings [TS]

  I mean it's insane when you go to the [TS]

  store if you could just if you could [TS]

  turn your your google glass so it only [TS]

  allows you to see things made of almonds [TS]

  oh IC r you know google glass r.i.p yeah [TS]

  but the other difference is that this [TS]

  computer is set so that it goes to sleep [TS]

  pretty fast [TS]

  that's because the millenniums like to [TS]

  save energy yeah yeah it's going to [TS]

  sleep now twice on me during this [TS]

  program and then it just has a screen [TS]

  screensaver of basically the apple logo [TS]

  and then the name of the owner of the [TS]

  computer and the words macbook air just [TS]

  sort of bouncing around a black screen [TS]

  ok you find out a little bit just now [TS]

  have you did you did you did you do [TS]

  anything are you downloading anything [TS]

  no no in fact I I can't download [TS]

  anything because of the computers [TS]

  consciously and I can't wake it up [TS]

  without a password all dears [TS]

  yes you wanna I'm saying oh gosh this [TS]

  was probably on borrowed time [TS]

  no I don't think so because I've done [TS]

  the classic thing of talking about it on [TS]

  the Internet program enough that that my [TS]

  my my lady friend and my millennial [TS]

  girlfriend yes heard what i was saying [TS]

  OK and came over in a fairly perfunctory [TS]

  way and then spit input her password [TS]

  into the computer so now i'm back up [TS]

  back up online [TS]

  and crisis narrowly averted and now i'm [TS]

  going to sit here absent-mindedly [TS]

  running my fingers over the mouse pad [TS]

  the mouse is there [TS]

  yeah so the mounting surface doesn't run [TS]

  your finger on the mounting surface [TS]

  mm that's kind of their retrofit the [TS]

  ferry you know I think we need to be [TS]

  probably just need to sit with this for [TS]

  a while [TS]

  well we'll get some good ones are there [TS]

  are you see I also i like the ones that [TS]

  that really don't mean anything [TS]

  I guess we've got a few of those but I [TS]

  also would like to explore more of the [TS]

  ones that literally don't mean anything [TS]

  and that to me that's the ones i could [TS]

  really subtraction coming along [TS]

  yeah yeah yeah yeah I don't try too hard [TS]

  this is what happens when you when you [TS]

  do a blue sky solution area you just got [TS]

  to unclench when you just got to class [TS]

  i'm gonna add that pretty good [TS]

  you've gotta get you if you're doing [TS]

  blue sky the solution earring you have [TS]

  the unfun judge also include John [TS]

  unclench your the ocean you're probably [TS]

  getting some interference [TS]

  we'll listen I promise you as your [TS]

  friend did something happen it does drop [TS]

  out i will hit the bell and we can the [TS]

  show like gentlemen [TS]

  hello right I'm Merlin you know how [TS]

  Sharia how to handle that it's got gold [TS]

  in there I don't leave any of that out [TS]

  no no it's all good in a form of [TS]

  sympathetic magic many people in cargo [TS]

  cults built life-size replica [TS]

  cults built life-size replica [TS]

  the airplanes out of straw uh-huh and [TS]

  cut new military style landing strips [TS]

  out of the jungle hoping to attract more [TS]

  airplanes that says this almost got it [TS]

  right [TS]

  yeah yeah attract more airplanes coconut [TS]

  internet phones [TS]

  yeah i'm looking at headphones that's a [TS]

  good that's a good indie rock band name [TS]

  coconut headphones i am i'm happy to say [TS]

  that my advancing age I i have thumb [TS]

  I think I've give my family a gift in [TS]

  some ways medic eft which is that now i [TS]

  have now settled into being very happy [TS]

  with getting mostly the same things for [TS]

  Christmas every year because actually [TS]

  look you want and need them [TS]

  well i mean the the one of the top items [TS]

  is getting pretty bottle once i get fun [TS]

  no nobody got a new pair 50 once every [TS]

  year every 1225 I get me a new pair 3433 [TS]

  433 43 to get a new pair of 50 ones and [TS]

  then the cycle continues [TS]

  um you get a new pair of 30 32 33 34 35 [TS]

  think it 3430 3432 something like that [TS]

  huh yeah yeah I get that I get some [TS]

  socks i usually get like a sweater Santa [TS]

  really got me some of these long sleeve [TS]

  t-shirts that I like a lot and I am that [TS]

  I'm happy as a pig in clamps when that [TS]

  happens so so a so every year you get [TS]

  one pair of 5440 it's probably more 501 [TS]

  the classics unwashed that we've talked [TS]

  about i don't really even need them [TS]

  because I heard them for longer than a [TS]

  year but my daughter is nine and she is [TS]

  becoming more confident aggressive about [TS]

  telling me what I should do differently [TS]

  and we're here i need to stop wearing [TS]

  pants with holes in the one to pick her [TS]

  up at school is rational sends em she's [TS]

  done with those so do you have do you [TS]

  have a silo filled with Levi's that you [TS]

  consider still very wearable and usable [TS]

  but that you have semi-retired because [TS]

  because your daughter no longer feels [TS]

  like they're acceptable [TS]

  beware that's a great question basically [TS]

  there's three there's three levels [TS]

  there's the current vice where you're [TS]

  going to wear them to dinner and people [TS]

  wouldn't go like this like this those [TS]

  and then you've got the ones that are [TS]

  faded they might have some holes you get [TS]

  the iphone hole on the left side is [TS]

  getting my feet above all the span span [TS]

  invagination and in the things that you [TS]

  get the third group which the ones i'd [TS]

  like to hang on a little bit longer but [TS]

  i'm getting stink eye and usually they [TS]

  donated to my daughter to be cut up and [TS]

  used as fabric for sewing projects [TS]

  oh I fee um but so there aren't any [TS]

  Levi's that are that are that are [TS]

  trashed but you can't surrender [TS]

  well that was the case with that there's [TS]

  a there was a pair that fell into that [TS]

  third group in the last six months I was [TS]

  really sorry to say goodbye to but as we [TS]

  talked about many times before [TS]

  everybody's Levi's blowout in in a way [TS]

  that is peculiar to them [TS]

  tryn like always it's one knee before [TS]

  the other for me it's one pocket before [TS]

  the other four me and ends the right [TS]

  side of the crotch starts to blow out [TS]

  and I don't want to put the action there [TS]

  because this is 1972 I'm not gonna live [TS]

  like that [TS]

  well you know Mike Mike Rotch blows out [TS]

  pretty darn early [TS]

  yeah just because I mean who knows why [TS]

  yeah but uh I have probably in the silo [TS]

  in in group 3 of my Levi's I probably [TS]

  let's say 18 pairs of group 3 Levi's [TS]

  that I keep in a duffel bag some of them [TS]

  you know a lot of them dating back to [TS]

  when Levi's were still made in America [TS]

  so american-made Levi's where they are [TS]

  still wearable except for a crotch blow [TS]

  out and oh honey blowout that are very [TS]

  patchable some of them have been patched [TS]

  already like a lot of them have that [TS]

  thing where the crotch blew out and they [TS]

  were patched and then the knee blew out [TS]

  and I didn't have the I didn't have the [TS]

  foresight when the sewing machine was [TS]

  out and the patches were going on [TS]

  to say like let's also patch that me [TS]

  okay because it's very hard to get the [TS]

  sewing machine back out two weeks later [TS]

  to put patches on all the pants again [TS]

  true and so back in the old days of [TS]

  course I would have worn them with the [TS]

  knees blown out until they were just [TS]

  like shredded I'm not sure when I'm not [TS]

  sure when that stop being permissible to [TS]

  me a blown out knee is not an a you know [TS]

  a cloud climate ending event like to [TS]

  have blood on these but it's just the [TS]

  thing that the point crotch that said [TS]

  that that throws a signal you don't want [TS]

  to do that but i don't know i guess [TS]

  maybe it's just not okay to have a you [TS]

  know holding your knees anymore [TS]

  yeah I mean I think we're grownups now [TS]

  you can't really walk around with the [TS]

  knees in your pants blown out but i but [TS]

  i just had a i just recently so I've [TS]

  been carrying around these genes in a [TS]

  duffel bag for a long time because you [TS]

  know there are a lot of things about [TS]

  them they fit me like a glove as much as [TS]

  we advise can never fit me like a glove [TS]

  you know they have well-worn patina that [TS]

  belongs to me it's nobody else's picture [TS]

  patina it didn't come from [TS]

  it didn't come from factory it's not [TS]

  something I found in a store it's patina [TS]

  patina that I built with my own blood [TS]

  sweat and tears and most of all and also [TS]

  their american-made and you can't get [TS]

  those anymore unless you want to pay top [TS]

  dollar but most importantly they are [TS]

  still service perfectly serviceable [TS]

  pants and just recently now that I'm [TS]

  spending all this time in California the [TS]

  it was like it was like the sun came out [TS]

  on these jeans I realized that they were [TS]

  all perfectly prepped to be cut offs [TS]

  haha and down here in California when [TS]

  it's warm [TS]

  a lot i was going to say all the time [TS]

  but I'm looking out at grey skies and my [TS]

  feet are freezing because it's freaking [TS]

  cold here right now even though it's [TS]

  wintertime better there's all these [TS]

  cut-offs just waiting to the judge that [TS]

  kind of weight we're still wearing [TS]

  cut-offs well this is the thing in [TS]

  California who can tell me what to do [TS]

  next right it's a really especially [TS]

  Venice Beach venice beach [TS]

  and I got all I've got a like a lifetime [TS]

  collection of Hawaiian shirts that are [TS]

  not they're not magnum p.i Hawaiian [TS]

  shirts they're the kind of why insurance [TS]

  where the like the bold side of the [TS]

  fabric is turned in and the outside the [TS]

  faded sort of like the through side of [TS]

  the fabric is turned out know what those [TS]

  are called the guy I know what you mean [TS]

  nowhere look so yeah its stated yeah I [TS]

  know what you mean the rain Spooner's or [TS]

  whatever and they're all there are none [TS]

  of a button [TS]

  none of them unbuttoned all the way down [TS]

  there kind of their anorak style or [TS]

  whatever the only button like four [TS]

  buttons down and their pullovers I don't [TS]

  know why when I was a kid I got one of [TS]

  those shirts and I really thought it was [TS]

  great and so my whole life I've only [TS]

  ever have only they were tolerated that [TS]

  kind of Hawaiian shirt like the rayon [TS]

  ones that have hula girls on them and [TS]

  that type of thing I don't want anything [TS]

  to do with em I don't want to touch [TS]

  those with a ten-foot pole [TS]

  I want ones that have a flower motif and [TS]

  are turned inside out and have a you [TS]

  know like an Iraq style [TS]

  well I don't know if those are cool or [TS]

  not that's the only kind i have and i [TS]

  wear them all the time down here because [TS]

  what who can you know there are people [TS]

  walking down venice beach dress like [TS]

  Jimi Hendrix on a unicycle so i started [TS]

  turning these Levi's into cut-offs and I [TS]

  remember when cut-offs cutoff jeans were [TS]

  like the cool its genes and so I feel [TS]

  very cool them really cut them off a [TS]

  little bit high and not so not so high [TS]

  that your pockets are sticking out okay [TS]

  are all okay all right you know like mid [TS]

  mid thigh he could you give them a cost [TS]

  per diem them [TS]

  oh no no you let them bring out let them [TS]

  pray and pray and I'm so pleased because [TS]

  you know these pants still fit good i've [TS]

  already mended the crotch in most cases [TS]

  and now i'm just walking around like I [TS]

  look like I'm ready for a hacky sack [TS]

  game at any moment i'm also wearing [TS]

  checkerboard vans because I you know how [TS]

  you really you've got a whole look [TS]

  together but I think so together I i [TS]

  look like and this thing I can't decide [TS]

  because when I walk into a lot of the [TS]

  they're like cool cafes here in Venice [TS]

  yeah it's like a lot of times when you [TS]

  walk into places in Los Angeles where [TS]

  actors and and script writers and things [TS]

  hanging out you walk in the door and at [TS]

  least in my case a lot of people look up [TS]

  and look at me for up for like three [TS]

  beats they got the heads-up display [TS]

  yeah scanning scanning scanning that's [TS]

  right like is this somebody who is this [TS]

  is this somebody that la thing nobody in [TS]

  seattle ever looks up nobody writes for [TS]

  the Oscars [TS]

  yeah right this is he does he write for [TS]

  parks and parks and community [TS]

  shush her you know and so I so I don't [TS]

  mind that right because I'm used to kind [TS]

  of feeling like when I walk into a room [TS]

  everybody should look up for a second [TS]

  totally him up but but increasingly it [TS]

  with this outfit the cut-offs and the [TS]

  vans and the client shirt [TS]

  I'm not sure whether I look like [TS]

  somebody who's really had a success in [TS]

  Hollywood is really like he's written [TS]

  some killer scripts and now he gets to [TS]

  like lebowski it everywhere he goes yeah [TS]

  or whether i look like somebody who [TS]

  shouldn't be allowed in the cafe right [TS]

  like somebody who's a so like a person [TS]

  is gonna walk over and say can I help [TS]

  you sir [TS]

  yeah but you know you that that kind of [TS]

  can I help you search you know you carry [TS]

  yourself with a lot of dignity [TS]

  yeah like a scriptwriter well right like [TS]

  some like somebody who want a couple [TS]

  emmy award for these things at least an [TS]

  option a few times you've been optioned [TS]

  hope for sure for sure I've been [TS]

  optioned I'm so terrified of that world [TS]

  down here you see so many people just [TS]

  helplessly one tape so they're just want [TS]

  so much to be cast in something to get [TS]

  that opportunity to get their script [TS]

  looked at and they're they're you know [TS]

  they're like turning all the time going [TS]

  to all this stuff like really really [TS]

  really climbing or hiking the clock's [TS]

  ticking the whole time clock is ticking [TS]

  you know under there i'm at least on [TS]

  there i mean in a long time since on [TS]

  their age you know and what they'll be [TS]

  suitable for because the options go down [TS]

  as you get older but also probably is [TS]

  not like an unlimited amount of money to [TS]

  keep that thing afloat [TS]

  well that and also i think i'm not sure [TS]

  because i'm not i'm not embedded in the [TS]

  culture but there's another clock that's [TS]

  ticking which is how long have you been [TS]

  in Hollywood and nothing's happened for [TS]

  you maybe that's a sign [TS]

  nothing's gonna happen for you like [TS]

  applying for too many credit cards [TS]

  yeah right like in stock goes down by [TS]

  the number of scripts that you've [TS]

  written that haven't gotten me in god [TS]

  I'm so it ought best so it all just [TS]

  feels and also i mean i had a friend [TS]

  that work down here that was an actor [TS]

  and eventually he decided that he didn't [TS]

  want to be an actor he wanted to be a [TS]

  professional waiter because it was at [TS]

  least something he was good at and he [TS]

  got tired of of applying for a job as a [TS]

  waiter in a restaurant where all the [TS]

  other waiters were were like really [TS]

  really beautiful actors and he realized [TS]

  like waiting you know in most places [TS]

  waiting isn't that hard [TS]

  why would you hire this four-year-old [TS]

  person when you can hire a 22-year old [TS]

  person bet that looks like Keanu Reeves [TS]

  right but that's the other problem down [TS]

  here there's always gonna be somebody [TS]

  more beautiful than if if you're being [TS]

  and somebody just the obvious when [TS]

  somebody who wants it more for somebody [TS]

  who will sacrifice more for go more [TS]

  right right so it'll end up doing to go [TS]

  to upkeep c22 wait no he waited tables [TS]

  here in Hollywood for a long time [TS]

  because i think he got a good job in a [TS]

  fancy restaurant where it was important [TS]

  that he be a good waiter but also he was [TS]

  a very handsome a like character actor [TS]

  you know what I mean like he wasn't ever [TS]

  going to be a leading man but he was [TS]

  definitely going to be he was perfect to [TS]

  be the henchman of the villain judgment [TS]

  huh who is the long blond hair blond guy [TS]

  in die hard the valet guy right [TS]

  yeah the valet guy yeah [TS]

  we have was no what's-his-name that [TS]

  Porsche cough it's the guy died [TS]

  oh yeah you got huh I hard boys is [TS]

  killing me you know he was a great [TS]

  sidekick Alexander good enough good [TS]

  enough right [TS]

  he was a you know he was a good like [TS]

  Chief bad guy [TS]

  chief henchmen bad guy because the [TS]

  because mr. bad guy in die hard with [TS]

  chief bad guys Gruber the Hans Gruber [TS]

  he's not a guy that's ever really going [TS]

  to pick up a gun my god movie so good [TS]

  unless he has to unless he's like [TS]

  trapped in a back hallway with the you [TS]

  know with all this but then he's going [TS]

  to pick up a gun but but for the most [TS]

  time he's like I've been holding the gun [TS]

  is gonna be a thing but he was in [TS]

  witness i forgot that he was in witness [TS]

  right of course he's very much he's our [TS]

  mission witness i forgot about that and [TS]

  via you know and the german accent it [TS]

  helps with the witness to yeah yeah but [TS]

  so you know i would i would not mind [TS]

  having a you know bad guy for a waiter [TS]

  know right he's you know he's one of [TS]

  those people that when he puts on one of [TS]

  those dumb porkpie hats that all the [TS]

  ding-a-lings where yeah it looks in [TS]

  instantly natural he's very Tom we gotta [TS]

  have the head for that [TS]

  yeah yeah and you put it on you gotta do [TS]

  I feel like you gotta have a whole you [TS]

  have to look like an old-fashioned [TS]

  person like your face has to local [TS]

  fashion for me [TS]

  I you know I can only get away i think [TS]

  with Al Capone hats or at some point [TS]

  like I decided that Oscar Wilde / Al [TS]

  Capone we're going to be those two guys [TS]

  with you might have mentor [TS]

  yeah because there's no way i'm not i'm [TS]

  not gonna wear tom waits at it just look [TS]

  stupid on me to go for a full-on Quentin [TS]

  crisp O'Quinn Chris pad we get you like [TS]

  a big peak get purple how would maybe [TS]

  like a feather on likely not your wild [TS]

  hat [TS]

  yeah you have to know what role you're [TS]

  auditioning for EM anyway my friend [TS]

  eventually you know what he did but he [TS]

  moved to Seattle and he described him to [TS]

  move back to Seattle and described [TS]

  himself as a climate change refugee [TS]

  settlement which well apparently the the [TS]

  really forward-thinking people down here [TS]

  starting to see the writing on the wall [TS]

  they're starting to see the water is [TS]

  never going to return 0 asking they and [TS]

  also they they trend toward conspiracy [TS]

  let's be honest I'm starting I'm [TS]

  starting to look at look at people's now [TS]

  and say you know just based on looking [TS]

  at you walking down the street which way [TS]

  do you trend on conspiracy [TS]

  okay like if it is not whether but which [TS]

  yeah if there's no if there's a new [TS]

  conspiracy do you adopt a somewhat of a [TS]

  skeptical take on it but still very [TS]

  interested to see you know like does [TS]

  this conspiracy involved the Rothschilds [TS]

  does it involve a one-world government [TS]

  or is it more about the jet fuel can't [TS]

  melt steel beams yeah but obviously they [TS]

  all they'll blend together at a certain [TS]

  point [TS]

  yeah but her but you can tell a lot [TS]

  about somebody by their conspiracy [TS]

  theory because you know it's what I do [TS]

  what attracts you and then but also what [TS]

  keeps you engaged or something about [TS]

  this you couldn't hook from right well [TS]

  and I so last night I'm I i played for [TS]

  my millennial girlfriend a something a [TS]

  little bit of the a couple of building 7 [TS]

  videos [TS]

  ok just to see what would happen you [TS]

  know like here's some building seven [TS]

  stuff what do you feel how do you feel [TS]

  about this and she immediately found it [TS]

  very appealing like turn to me a couple [TS]

  times said well how do you answer that [TS]

  what do you say to that is just the one [TS]

  that went down and it seemed like it [TS]

  shouldn't really gone down [TS]

  yeah like seein no 67 hours later this [TS]

  building collapse and from the footage [TS]

  very much seems like it's collapsing [TS]

  exactly like a las vegas hotel right [TS]

  like a like it collapsed very perfectly [TS]

  you couldn't have collapse that building [TS]

  any better if you had that top shelf [TS]

  global building collapses much to watch [TS]

  9-11 documentary last week and I you [TS]

  know it was a it was first fall of very [TS]

  upsetting [TS]

  yeah you don't really get over that day [TS]

  but also liked it is pretty pan Nana's [TS]

  that those two big buildings went so [TS]

  directly down just like right straight [TS]

  down and the thing is if I drop [TS]

  something off the roof of our house it [TS]

  would land further away [TS]

  still things did right last night if you [TS]

  if you were throwing a if you were [TS]

  throwing melons up top of a three-story [TS]

  building uh-huh [TS]

  they're gonna they're gonna land in a in [TS]

  kind of a splatter pattern [TS]

  yeah you're not going to get those [TS]

  melons right in the same spot each I'm [TS]

  so utilitarian conspiracy bone a little [TS]

  yeah yeah and I you know I don't think [TS]

  it was a world that she'd been exposed [TS]

  to before interest necessarily where [TS]

  it's like wait a minute there's an [TS]

  incontrovertible evidence here I feel [TS]

  like it's like somebody's never played [TS]

  zelda or something like I hear about [TS]

  this world and then I don't realize how [TS]

  deep it is until you just going to do is [TS]

  google search like a person and ohmygod [TS]

  there's a lot in the documentaries John [TS]

  there's a lot of documentaries i watched [TS]

  a real like a legit documentary like you [TS]

  know straight mainstream documentary I [TS]

  don't know which one to Alex Jones [TS]

  territory or even appearing see some [TS]

  amazing how do you know they're gonna do [TS]

  your own research [TS]

  one of the things that happened here on [TS]

  the building seven documentary uh was it [TS]

  get did extend to a general 911 hot take [TS]

  and that hot take what as in all [TS]

  seriousness that both airplanes were in [TS]

  fact Holograms ha ha ha that Holograms [TS]

  that no that's right that no airplane [TS]

  actually hit either Tower because if you [TS]

  look at the footage if you study it if [TS]

  you slow the footage down but you got to [TS]

  really look at it you have to really [TS]

  look at its load all the way down ok you [TS]

  realize that the way that the planes [TS]

  impacted the building was physically [TS]

  impossible and there are 25 scientists [TS]

  on tap here that will confirm that [TS]

  that's not what would have happened [TS]

  something it's not clear what would not [TS]

  even their science obviously i was [TS]

  leaving the thing is that a 757 had [TS]

  never crashed into a World Trade Center [TS]

  before [TS]

  yeah so we can't be sure what did you [TS]

  have to get to in 20 minutes [TS]

  yeah but we could be sure that it [TS]

  wouldn't happen that way hmm uh and and [TS]

  said it was weird that we have the [TS]

  conversation here in the house because [TS]

  one of the things that they said in the [TS]

  documentary was only three buildings in [TS]

  history have ever collapsed due to fire [TS]

  I mean talk about skyscrapers [TS]

  only three scribes skyscrapers have ever [TS]

  collapsed due to fire and all three of [TS]

  them were at world trade center site [TS]

  that day that paid for by building one [TS]

  building to building seven and make sure [TS]

  that as far as I got my probably that's [TS]

  exactly right but the buildings that [TS]

  were destroyed in toto were almost [TS]

  solely World Trade Center related [TS]

  buildings they basically like a [TS]

  one-to-one ratio they were completely [TS]

  World Trade Center buildings and of [TS]

  course there was that it wasn't girls [TS]

  junior or something [TS]

  no there was no Carlton you're there [TS]

  the the little church that was there got [TS]

  a got you know some buildings got [TS]

  damaged but they were repaired and there [TS]

  was one tree that survived i think and [TS]

  was replanted at the current world trade [TS]

  center site as far as i know but the way [TS]

  this was the way this was stated and and [TS]

  and my millennial girlfriend repeated it [TS]

  to me like only three buildings in the [TS]

  history of time or destroyed by fire how [TS]

  do you explain that as though that in [TS]

  itself was conclusive no special is that [TS]

  it do we know that that's a true [TS]

  statement [TS]

  I believe you know as far as skyscrapers [TS]

  go can you think of another one was [TS]

  destroyed by fire is part of the problem [TS]

  though is like I'm not a skyscraper for [TS]

  expert but like right somebody presents [TS]

  that as a fact i'm letting sure where to [TS]

  go exactly to check it as someone [TS]

  speaking of someone who a is a [TS]

  skyscraper experts ok and very [TS]

  definitely if a skyscraper has ever been [TS]

  destroyed by fire [TS]

  I would absolutely would have seen it [TS]

  now has the infrastructure God why are [TS]

  we talking about this i have to temper [TS]

  this by saying I did not know about [TS]

  cargo cults which also seems like a [TS]

  thing that a week ago I would have said [TS]

  if there's such a thing as a cargo I [TS]

  would know about it because you have [TS]

  room to grow right all right that's [TS]

  right but my my only take on that was a [TS]

  phrase that sentence just slightly [TS]

  differently [TS]

  the only three skyscrapers in history [TS]

  have ever been destroyed by fire so we [TS]

  don't really have a wide set of [TS]

  information to determine how it is [TS]

  supposed to happen right right [TS]

  like all three of them collapsed just [TS]

  perfectly straight down maybe that's [TS]

  what happens when its skyscrapers [TS]

  I mean and that's the pill but how many [TS]

  buildings of greater than 80 stories [TS]

  have had a plane fly into them right [TS]

  how many buildings greater than 80 [TS]

  stories have ever been dealt destroyed [TS]

  right right we'll let alone destroyed [TS]

  and that the answer is zero i don't [TS]

  think any building over 80 stories has [TS]

  ever been destroyed [TS]

  I think they'll let you can get now I [TS]

  think they were I think everyone that's [TS]

  ever been constructed is still standing [TS]

  rock is how you're gonna take one down [TS]

  maybe we should move in the same we [TS]

  don't time today but maybe we should [TS]

  pivot here from the clever catch phrases [TS]

  in jargon now into facts we can produce [TS]

  some facts for people [TS]

  mmm interesting interesting how what [TS]

  kind of facts would you like to produce [TS]

  oh I mean I think you kind of thing [TS]

  that's really obvious until you think [TS]

  about it and it doesn't make sense or [TS]

  the kind of thing that would be [TS]

  difficult to prove or the kind of thing [TS]

  that seems really smart but is actually [TS]

  just really obvious [TS]

  well over ninety percent of the people [TS]

  living in Canada will die in the next [TS]

  hundred years i believe it i mean that's [TS]

  bad that you just phrase that as fit as [TS]

  a statistic but but for me it always [TS]

  turns that always turns the opposite [TS]

  direction which is to say if you were [TS]

  going to destroy those buildings with [TS]

  explosives which is the contention [TS]

  basically have all these conspiracy [TS]

  theories they all they all no matter how [TS]

  many videos you watch of the airplane [TS]

  slamming into the building we're like [TS]

  that couldn't have happened that's a [TS]

  hologram [TS]

  it always arrives at the at the point [TS]

  where those buildings were destroyed and [TS]

  if they were destroyed by explosives [TS]

  I do have a sense of what it would take [TS]

  to destroy the world trade center with [TS]

  explosives and what it would take is [TS]

  dozens of people wiring the entire [TS]

  building with explosives going off at [TS]

  intervals going off at precisely [TS]

  determined intervals but we're talking [TS]

  about a building that had people working [TS]

  in it every day [TS]

  yeah and so how do you flood this [TS]

  building with demolition experts and [TS]

  flood the building with all the cabling [TS]

  the wiring the fuses that the bombs and [TS]

  put them in the precise location that [TS]

  they need to be which currently is [TS]

  covered with wallboard because it's a [TS]

  freaking office that's occupied with [TS]

  people typing I have to guess this has [TS]

  all been covered i'm not sure [TS]

  well by the people who they probably all [TS]

  you know what the government showed up [TS]

  and put it in the elevator shafts but [TS]

  that wouldn't destroy any way it always [TS]

  seems to me we really have you actually [TS]

  thought about this before yes i have [TS]

  bone and even get to the level of why [TS]

  would they do this who pitches which is [TS]

  the level that's really fun right [TS]

  because the elevation right well because [TS]

  of the Jews usually yeah if you really [TS]

  go all the way back to use all the [TS]

  tickets because the choose it always is [TS]

  you have to uncoded you have to unpack [TS]

  but eventually who are always up to miss [TS]

  you know what I mean yes [TS]

  mm uh-huh but uh but that's why it's [TS]

  just at the level of how like you've got [TS]

  if you're going all the way to making a [TS]

  hologram of a jet crashing into a [TS]

  building in order to avoid actually just [TS]

  crashing a jet into the building because [TS]

  you have a plan is that people just [TS]

  trick the the airplane hologram [TS]

  listen and you ever read the protocols [TS]

  of the Elders of Zion it's right there [TS]

  I mean it's not they didn't have [TS]

  skyscrapers and don't you shoot the [TS]

  hologram the the the image the image [TS]

  that's being projected onto air you know [TS]

  you shoot that from different angles it [TS]

  looks like a plane exploding a building [TS]

  well here's what required [TS]

  okay i know there i know they're good [TS]

  after there's a good with money [TS]

  yeah but they may close they're very [TS]

  very good at exploiting the blacks for [TS]

  making rock music that's another thing [TS]

  they're good at but uh but what was [TS]

  required in order to make the [TS]

  holographic jets is stealth aircraft [TS]

  technology because the hologram for [TS]

  being broadcast from other planes ok [TS]

  it was only when you put it that way it [TS]

  doesn't seem crazy right so their [TS]

  clothes aircraft sure Wonder Woman jets [TS]

  I like an invisible jet invisible jet [TS]

  that is that is projecting holographic [TS]

  Chet's who are slamming into the [TS]

  buildings in impossible ways which is [TS]

  which is that the possibility of it is [TS]

  detectable by him the human eye in order [TS]

  to make it plausible that these World [TS]

  Trade Center buildings are being [TS]

  destroyed by explosives which is [TS]

  something that ultimately is part of [TS]

  what the jews are up to some kind of [TS]

  mischief that they're up to I loved [TS]

  their mischief don't think the other do [TS]

  and this is a thing that you want to put [TS]

  like 400 documentaries on the internet [TS]

  about and then and having successfully [TS]

  created Holograms of jets to cover up [TS]

  the fact that they were playing with [TS]

  these buildings the Jews get wet [TS]

  mm oh I'm sorry reg emoni over our [TS]

  thought uh-uh alright what they're [TS]

  trying it's all it's all a big comentary [TS]

  and candidates think it's all a big [TS]

  distraction [TS]

  yeah it's a big distraction it'sit's [TS]

  gaslighting all the way down [TS]

  uh-huh and what it what it ultimately [TS]

  means is that they you know what they're [TS]

  creating in us is uh like a Truman Show [TS]

  level of but that we believe that we are [TS]

  living in a world that [TS]

  we are actually not living in the world [TS]

  are actually living in if you take the [TS]

  red pill is this world where the [TS]

  Rothschilds are bleeding us dry [TS]

  ok then it makes people in the crackers [TS]

  and whatnot [TS]

  yeah oh yeah yeah I'm not they're making [TS]

  me the crackers and throw them down [TS]

  awhile but that's the thing that you [TS]

  need to open your eyes about okay well [TS]

  right yeah thats so the ultimate the [TS]

  ultimate point of all these videos and [TS]

  that's why they that's why they faked [TS]

  sandy hook too because they do that to [TS]

  ya did they fake sandy hook which is [TS]

  just another way of taking our guns [TS]

  ah i see if you want to take our guns [TS]

  we're going to do just because people [TS]

  were upset about sandy hook [TS]

  yeah that's right nice so you're gonna [TS]

  you're gonna fake this thing where we're [TS]

  disturbed teenager goes into an [TS]

  elementary school and kills a bunch of [TS]

  kindergartners that's how you're gonna [TS]

  get our guns IC IC and that the most [TS]

  efficient way to to get the guns right [TS]

  and the reason you want to get the gun [TS]

  because the Jews did you gotta get all [TS]

  the way back you I'm not gonna you know [TS]

  there's a lot of steps in between but [TS]

  when you finally get all the way back [TS]

  there [TS]

  it's george soros sitting on top of a of [TS]

  a pilot killed [TS]

  yes said Israel and he making holographs [TS]

  he's trying to you know hit there is a [TS]

  there is a world of reality that he [TS]

  understands that we don't because we're [TS]

  blind God we're blind anymore but the [TS]

  thing is I'm woke Ryan yes I think yes [TS]

  absolutely and so I you know so I'm not [TS]

  living in in this state of affairs [TS]

  there are two paths you can go by but in [TS]

  the long run there's still time to [TS]

  change the road run right there's two [TS]

  kinds of people in this world [TS]

  literatures losers start out Anna [TS]

  call it if you can end the show on a [TS]

  lindsey buckingham calls [TS]

  [Music] [TS]