Roderick on the Line

Ep. 228: "Hidey Santa"


00:00:00   this episode of rock on the line is [TS]

00:00:02   brought to you by Casper Casper is an [TS]

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00:00:13   purchase please go and visit Casper calm [TS]

00:00:16   / supertrain [TS]

00:00:17   [Music] [TS]

00:00:22   hello hi John hi Merlin is going well [TS]

00:00:28   it's a little complicated [TS]

00:00:29   no dear i'm switching headphones you [TS]

00:00:33   seem like you're in a different room [TS]

00:00:35   yeah i'm always in a different room [TS]

00:00:36   stand by here goes headphones with ready [TS]

00:00:39   okay [TS]

00:00:39   ah I can't hear you now because i'm [TS]

00:00:43   switching John is switching so here we [TS]

00:00:44   go [TS]

00:00:45   we'll need to hear unfolding China's [TS]

00:00:48   back John is switching his headphones [TS]

00:00:50   either can hear me yeah you sound good [TS]

00:00:51   can hear me Merlin yeah I can hear I can [TS]

00:00:54   hear you now I can hear you [TS]

00:00:56   oh ok i'm having a problem with a large [TS]

00:00:59   problem is complicated huh [TS]

00:01:02   are you on bart equipment what it is is [TS]

00:01:06   it's a headphone jack and malfunctioning [TS]

00:01:10   now [TS]

00:01:12   yeah and so I only I'm hearing you in [TS]

00:01:14   mono now [TS]

00:01:15   oh I just in one year just in one area [TS]

00:01:18   must be maddening that's not good that's [TS]

00:01:21   not good that's not how I normally here [TS]

00:01:23   Merlin Mann and it's what it feels like [TS]

00:01:25   to be Brian Wilson this is exactly what [TS]

00:01:28   it feels like to be Brian I feel like [TS]

00:01:29   right now I'm and I filled my living [TS]

00:01:31   room was saying its full catch em oh man [TS]

00:01:36   yeah so it's almost a form of virtual [TS]

00:01:41   reality or sec augmented reality this is [TS]

00:01:43   kind of it's a it's a nurse at Brian [TS]

00:01:46   Wilson emulator yeah it's it's like dr [TS]

00:01:49   demented reality or dog mented reality [TS]

00:01:55   [Music] [TS]

00:01:58   I'm broadcasting to you live from Venice [TS]

00:02:01   California [TS]

00:02:02   oh there you are can you see the beach [TS]

00:02:04   no no I can't see the beach i can see [TS]

00:02:07   Russia from here but not the beach [TS]

00:02:09   yeah that's one thing about Alaskans a [TS]

00:02:11   lot of people don't know it isn't that [TS]

00:02:13   Alaska is close to Russia it's just that [TS]

00:02:16   all Alaskans can see Russia from [TS]

00:02:17   wherever they are [TS]

00:02:19   is that it now has hasn't fallen nature [TS]

00:02:21   versus nurture is that just something [TS]

00:02:23   thats is something like in the water or [TS]

00:02:26   do you think something genetic it's [TS]

00:02:29   really more Heisenberg Ian oh sure right [TS]

00:02:33   like you're not sure what happens [TS]

00:02:35   well know that Russia is there by virtue [TS]

00:02:37   of our observation rather than there [TS]

00:02:40   being a Russian really necessarily units [TS]

00:02:43   and about quantum quantum observation [TS]

00:02:45   there it is that's right that's right I [TS]

00:02:47   i observe Russia and then spookily at a [TS]

00:02:51   distance and other Alaskans also [TS]

00:02:53   observed Russian and if everybody in [TS]

00:02:55   Alaska lined up at the same time you [TS]

00:02:58   know who knows we would be like Hands [TS]

00:02:59   Across America before for vision or [TS]

00:03:01   politics [TS]

00:03:02   mhm i was watching now you know they got [TS]

00:03:05   bob ross on netflix nah [TS]

00:03:08   yeah yeah they got like a like a [TS]

00:03:09   full-season a bob ross on their endeavor [TS]

00:03:12   thought of his program is happening in [TS]

00:03:14   seasons he's a very interesting guy and [TS]

00:03:19   he you know he don't know if you've [TS]

00:03:22   watched his his old show on PBS but it's [TS]

00:03:24   it's a it's it's strangely relaxing and [TS]

00:03:26   kind of fascinating to watch don't see [TS]

00:03:29   how you could be an American person and [TS]

00:03:31   not have watched that show [TS]

00:03:33   yeah because because it's not just [TS]

00:03:35   mesmerizing over time it's like [TS]

00:03:37   instantly mesmerizing e yeah it's and I [TS]

00:03:41   mean you know what he say about bob ross [TS]

00:03:43   i mean obviously he had a it was kind of [TS]

00:03:45   a bit was one of those things like the [TS]

00:03:47   star hustler or something where people [TS]

00:03:48   knew about it and it's funny you make [TS]

00:03:50   fun of it but but when you actually [TS]

00:03:52   watch the show it's it's pretty amazing [TS]

00:03:54   like to feel like you have a lot to say [TS]

00:03:56   about bob ross maybe more than most [TS]

00:03:59   well you know i am going to wikipedia [TS]

00:04:01   was watch on [TS]

00:04:02   but the reason I mentioned here you know [TS]

00:04:04   it is on netflix if you ever get a TV [TS]

00:04:06   but the other thing is that he has said [TS]

00:04:09   numerous times in this just makes sense [TS]

00:04:11   to me that a lot of his inspiration was [TS]

00:04:14   very inspired technically by this by [TS]

00:04:16   this one fella who sort of um [TS]

00:04:18   popularized the wet on wet painting [TS]

00:04:20   technique they eventually had a big [TS]

00:04:22   fracture fracture in their relationship [TS]

00:04:24   that's very sad but the fact that he [TS]

00:04:26   paints the way that he does in the kinds [TS]

00:04:28   of things that he does is owing to the [TS]

00:04:30   fact that he was stationed in alaska was [TS]

00:04:33   cute when he was in the service he was [TS]

00:04:35   like a like a sergeant guy and I want to [TS]

00:04:38   like supply or something like that but [TS]

00:04:39   that's when he took up painting to [TS]

00:04:41   augment his income he would make these [TS]

00:04:42   paintings and sell them and that Alaskan [TS]

00:04:45   influence is still there so that that [TS]

00:04:46   maybe that has something to do with [TS]

00:04:48   nature of his visions any different [TS]

00:04:50   he he uses the wet on wet technique the [TS]

00:04:53   wet on wet technique yeah that's what [TS]

00:04:55   that's what enables the whole thing wet [TS]

00:04:57   on wet now that I don't know a lot about [TS]

00:05:00   this but it's my understanding that [TS]

00:05:01   typically when your oil painting you get [TS]

00:05:03   your campus you get your chest so you [TS]

00:05:04   got your that dry stretch your cameras [TS]

00:05:06   got all ready to go and start painting [TS]

00:05:08   in layers and I think he ordinarily wait [TS]

00:05:11   for one layer to dry [TS]

00:05:14   well before you putting more on what Bob [TS]

00:05:18   Ross does based on this technique this [TS]

00:05:20   guy named Alexander not to be confused [TS]

00:05:21   with the alexander technique he uses he [TS]

00:05:24   has a hole wet canvas really uses the [TS]

00:05:26   wet paint and you know what Bob Bob Bob [TS]

00:05:29   rossi he doesn't call it a mistake [TS]

00:05:31   because it a happy accident you can have [TS]

00:05:33   these happy cloud happy tree and he has [TS]

00:05:36   squirrels on a show sometimes I my [TS]

00:05:39   experience loses one of the things [TS]

00:05:41   growing up I didn't I guess I didn't [TS]

00:05:44   think about it until i was out of Alaska [TS]

00:05:47   it's one of those one of those [TS]

00:05:49   Heisenberg in things where you can't see [TS]

00:05:52   it until until you take yourself out of [TS]

00:05:56   it [TS]

00:05:56   it's like it's like a Schroedinger box [TS]

00:06:00   right you can't tell if I the burgers in [TS]

00:06:02   the box and does that happen [TS]

00:06:03   yeah orders [TS]

00:06:05   so I moved away from Alaska and I [TS]

00:06:08   realized that all art in Alaska or the [TS]

00:06:11   vast majority of art in Alaska is kitsch [TS]

00:06:14   all Alaska absurd painting landscape [TS]

00:06:20   painting is all done in this style where [TS]

00:06:23   there's the northern lights and there's [TS]

00:06:25   snowy it's nighttime and there's a and [TS]

00:06:27   there's a a log cash and maybe you know [TS]

00:06:34   definitely some some happy trees [TS]

00:06:36   definitely maybe some unhappy trees but [TS]

00:06:40   every Alaskan in the state has a [TS]

00:06:43   painting of Alaska or multiple paintings [TS]

00:06:46   of Alaska in their home and they're all [TS]

00:06:49   this sort of they're all done in a very [TS]

00:06:51   similar style a lot of them are actually [TS]

00:06:54   painted on gold bands which is a thing [TS]

00:06:58   that song in some ways you know you know [TS]

00:07:02   what a gold pan looks like like a [TS]

00:07:03   sentence creek pants use for pitchers [TS]

00:07:05   hold ya so discreet been right so that [TS]

00:07:08   is a gold pans are a canvas in Alaskan [TS]

00:07:13   culture upon which all manner of dreams [TS]

00:07:17   are projected but if you go into [TS]

00:07:20   someone's home in Alaska and there and [TS]

00:07:23   they are middle-class it's but there's a [TS]

00:07:26   very good chance that they will have a [TS]

00:07:27   gold pan mounted on the wall that has a [TS]

00:07:30   painting on it and and their bare you [TS]

00:07:34   know that these paintings vary in size [TS]

00:07:38   primarily and if you go into a really [TS]

00:07:42   nice house in Alaska maybe one that is [TS]

00:07:45   really nicely decorated in every other [TS]

00:07:47   way somewhere you will find a gold pan [TS]

00:07:50   some more prominently a gold pan painted [TS]

00:07:52   with the scene of the northern lights [TS]

00:07:54   and a little cash and some snow and even [TS]

00:07:59   the finest Alaskan painting the jacob [TS]

00:08:02   Lawrence's of the [TS]

00:08:04   Velasquez theme of paintings that now [TS]

00:08:06   sell for tens and hundreds of thousands [TS]

00:08:09   of dollars are also landscape paintings [TS]

00:08:11   and they don't necessarily have the [TS]

00:08:14   northern lights in them there's that I [TS]

00:08:17   think maybe the very highest echelon of [TS]

00:08:19   Alaskan painting you are allowed to not [TS]

00:08:22   include the northern lights [TS]

00:08:23   hmm but a but and this is kind of true [TS]

00:08:28   of like all Alaskan culture right like [TS]

00:08:32   the songs that come out of Alaska [TS]

00:08:35   including my cousins albums they feature [TS]

00:08:41   Alaska I prominently and the writing [TS]

00:08:45   that comes out of Alaska's largely [TS]

00:08:48   centered on Alaska or or takes place in [TS]

00:08:51   Alaska there's there's that it's that [TS]

00:08:53   it's that it's that encompass moment a [TS]

00:08:57   compass in Ascension engine went yes [TS]

00:09:03   alas canna Alaska which produces a last [TS]

00:09:06   canna and alas canna is the primary form [TS]

00:09:10   of like cultural production of Alaska [TS]

00:09:13   and so now that i know bob ross learned [TS]

00:09:17   that in Alaska it so much makes sense [TS]

00:09:19   you know that kind of like the [TS]

00:09:21   reproducible miss of it the the the way [TS]

00:09:26   that those landscapes kind of come [TS]

00:09:28   together [TS]

00:09:29   his and now i'm thinking about them you [TS]

00:09:32   know sort of located on a giant gold pan [TS]

00:09:35   and all comes together [TS]

00:09:38   all he needs is a little bit of northern [TS]

00:09:39   lights well let me catch these paintings [TS]

00:09:43   are not cheap and the gold pan painting [TS]

00:09:45   some of them are I want to share [TS]

00:09:47   something with you that will probably [TS]

00:09:48   not surprise you when i went and [TS]

00:09:51   searched on the internet for gold pan [TS]

00:09:52   paintings it it auto completed with bob [TS]

00:09:55   ross what gold campaigns I'm i am [TS]

00:09:58   looking right now at some of the mini [TS]

00:10:00   bob ross original gold pan paintings [TS]

00:10:03   including one of a mountain and a cabin [TS]

00:10:06   and the northern lights [TS]

00:10:07   you're kidding time not i'm not even [TS]

00:10:10   kidding you [TS]

00:10:11   we have arrived it we've arrived at some [TS]

00:10:14   kind of single again [TS]

00:10:16   my gosh is a lot of sirens going by hope [TS]

00:10:18   everything's okay you have noticed that [TS]

00:10:21   too [TS]

00:10:21   do you think what the Sanderson [TS]

00:10:26   encroaching what do I think what's [TS]

00:10:29   pretty cold today those those uh and the [TS]

00:10:34   sound a little bit like police sirens to [TS]

00:10:36   me i'm not sure there's a difference but [TS]

00:10:39   you know as you know you see me [TS]

00:10:40   demonstrate I can tell the different [TS]

00:10:41   kinds of delivery services by the sound [TS]

00:10:43   of the truck [TS]

00:10:44   I can't hear many things but I'm usually [TS]

00:10:45   pretty good at identifying vehicles you [TS]

00:10:48   do that when planes you can do that with [TS]

00:10:49   planes i can try to get pretty close i [TS]

00:10:52   can try an airplane to to know what I'm [TS]

00:10:54   hearing yeah it's very very distinctive [TS]

00:10:56   cadence to it to US postal service truck [TS]

00:10:59   that's not right that's the different [TS]

00:11:00   from UPS or or any other oh yeah [TS]

00:11:03   absolutely [TS]

00:11:04   FedEx truck sound more expensive and the [TS]

00:11:06   the Postal Service ones have a very have [TS]

00:11:08   a very distinctive kind of disappointed [TS]

00:11:12   sound a sound tired [TS]

00:11:14   what are the ones that sound like rumble [TS]

00:11:16   Rumble Rumble which ones are those that [TS]

00:11:23   sounds to me like a garbage truck [TS]

00:11:27   oh em that my pee yeah what I'm thinking [TS]

00:11:30   of where our garbage garbage truck is [TS]

00:11:33   unchanged and change the topic it very [TS]

00:11:35   leisurely very leisurely garbage person [TS]

00:11:37   so they really really take their time my [TS]

00:11:41   garbage truck because i live in and [TS]

00:11:42   maybe like a crosshatch neighborhood [TS]

00:11:45   that has some some streets are are dead [TS]

00:11:49   ends Cossacks the garbage men and there [TS]

00:11:54   are always men [TS]

00:11:55   mmm they come through the neighborhood [TS]

00:11:58   in a very curious pattern where instead [TS]

00:12:05   of going down the streets that are [TS]

00:12:07   blocked off they they turn their trucks [TS]

00:12:11   at and then back down the streets that [TS]

00:12:14   are blocked off [TS]

00:12:15   that's interesting yeah so that advocate [TS]

00:12:18   every time [TS]

00:12:19   yeah they that's their routine they you [TS]

00:12:21   know they pull little T maneuver and [TS]

00:12:23   then they back all the way down the long [TS]

00:12:26   block to the end and then are able to [TS]

00:12:29   drive forward out of there but what that [TS]

00:12:32   means is that half the time they're in [TS]

00:12:35   my neighborhood by volume they are going [TS]

00:12:39   course fully half the time and or maybe [TS]

00:12:48   even more the time because more than [TS]

00:12:49   more than half the time because you have [TS]

00:12:50   to account for the time that they're [TS]

00:12:52   pulling the team maneuver and so and and [TS]

00:12:57   they come service my neighborhood at the [TS]

00:12:59   crack of dawn i am the first [TS]

00:13:01   neighborhood in town to get their [TS]

00:13:04   garbage picked up on fridays and so it's [TS]

00:13:10   a real symphony the beeps plus rattles [TS]

00:13:15   and squeaky brakes and big diesel motors [TS]

00:13:18   or whatever those are now two diesel [TS]

00:13:21   combined with compressed air combined [TS]

00:13:23   with corn syrup and whatever those [TS]

00:13:26   motors are running on and and also they [TS]

00:13:31   get their route I've tried to try to map [TS]

00:13:34   it as you do that you try to map view [TS]

00:13:37   the garbage truck says that you likely [TS]

00:13:39   you reach a certain certain and we [TS]

00:13:41   talked about Rev route talk or root talk [TS]

00:13:43   a.sesay and you know I think as you [TS]

00:13:45   reach a certain age in life you became [TS]

00:13:46   very interested in how people are [TS]

00:13:49   compelled or choose to wear out their [TS]

00:13:52   vehicles i think it's a very interesting [TS]

00:13:53   topic and then once you start noticing a [TS]

00:13:54   pattern [TS]

00:13:55   yeah you can't help but notice right and [TS]

00:13:57   I and I thought you know the the way the [TS]

00:13:59   garbage trucks empty a neighborhood of [TS]

00:14:03   their of the neighborhood's garbage and [TS]

00:14:05   then move on you know that's a system [TS]

00:14:07   that's part of a larger system and so I [TS]

00:14:11   became curious as to whether it was just [TS]

00:14:14   Emma tized across the whole city or [TS]

00:14:16   whether each whether the managers like [TS]

00:14:19   it's like a car and every year ever [TS]

00:14:21   yeah every neighborhood is d garbage in [TS]

00:14:23   a different way that's right makes sense [TS]

00:14:25   up but maybe not you know maybe maybe [TS]

00:14:28   it's maybe its institutional a top-down [TS]

00:14:31   system or maybe garbage managers like [TS]

00:14:34   listen my own neighborhood I know better [TS]

00:14:37   than anyone and in our neighborhood in [TS]

00:14:40   my in Sector 14 we back down every [TS]

00:14:43   called a sec and the guy that's running [TS]

00:14:45   some sector-12 is like that's ridiculous [TS]

00:14:48   who knows i don't i'm not i'm not privy [TS]

00:14:51   I you know with when I was running for [TS]

00:14:54   City Council one of the questions I [TS]

00:14:55   asked my team was once i'm in city [TS]

00:15:00   council because I presume that would be [TS]

00:15:02   sharp [TS]

00:15:03   do I have the authority doing do I have [TS]

00:15:06   the ability to go down to the Sanitation [TS]

00:15:08   Department and get a report and say I'd [TS]

00:15:10   like a report I'd like to sit here and [TS]

00:15:13   be in a room with you guys and get a [TS]

00:15:15   report from everybody about what's going [TS]

00:15:16   on [TS]

00:15:17   what kind of decreasing yeah and they [TS]

00:15:19   looked at each my team sort of looked at [TS]

00:15:22   each other and slowly nodded and said he [TS]

00:15:27   would be able to do that I think you [TS]

00:15:29   would scare a lot of people they [TS]

00:15:31   wouldn't know why you were there and I [TS]

00:15:33   said all climb there i just want to i [TS]

00:15:36   want to go around to the city and all [TS]

00:15:39   the all the agencies that are performing [TS]

00:15:42   all these marvelous tasks I want to get [TS]

00:15:44   a report [TS]

00:15:45   thank you i'm not going to tell them how [TS]

00:15:47   to do their jobs just you you seek first [TS]

00:15:50   to understand [TS]

00:15:51   yeah it's like Don Schaffner food safety [TS]

00:15:53   podcast right I've got a lot of [TS]

00:15:55   questions about how the garbages how [TS]

00:15:57   about the plan is run here and people [TS]

00:15:59   people who think about how they do their [TS]

00:16:01   job all day long are usually very keen [TS]

00:16:04   to tell you [TS]

00:16:05   yeah yeah I couldn't wait but but now as [TS]

00:16:08   a layperson is just a common member of [TS]

00:16:11   the city community [TS]

00:16:12   I don't feel like I have this thing is I [TS]

00:16:15   don't want to just go like wait in the [TS]

00:16:17   lobby with my hat in my hand for some [TS]

00:16:19   press secretary to come out and say what [TS]

00:16:21   can we do for you now I'm like [TS]

00:16:23   constantly reexamining our processes to [TS]

00:16:25   find efficiencies and yeah I don't say I [TS]

00:16:28   just want to sit in a room with all that [TS]

00:16:30   with all those district managers and [TS]

00:16:32   hear how the [TS]

00:16:33   garbages then they just be like listen [TS]

00:16:35   we're very busy here [TS]

00:16:37   yeah but if I showed up as a city [TS]

00:16:39   councilman with my you know my little [TS]

00:16:40   entourage [TS]

00:16:41   yeah imagine the power point that I [TS]

00:16:44   would get to see and I probably would [TS]

00:16:47   scare people that that's not what they [TS]

00:16:48   want that's not what they get most city [TS]

00:16:51   council people and by most I mean all to [TS]

00:16:53   not have not been to the Sanitation [TS]

00:16:56   Department probably although who knows [TS]

00:16:58   but uh but yes so i'm very curious about [TS]

00:17:02   it and once i started watching what they [TS]

00:17:04   were doing it so it's quite an elaborate [TS]

00:17:06   party to do [TS]

00:17:08   it's a it's a little bit of a swan lake [TS]

00:17:10   that's happening and garbage trucks it [TS]

00:17:13   seems to me are running a running a a [TS]

00:17:18   lot of redundant trips down the street [TS]

00:17:23   you know I mean like garbage truck comes [TS]

00:17:26   first appears in the neighborhood goes [TS]

00:17:29   past my house kind of a add up at a good [TS]

00:17:32   clip [TS]

00:17:33   ok it's going somewhere it's going [TS]

00:17:35   somewhere yeah then I hear it beeping [TS]

00:17:38   somewhere in the neighborhood and then [TS]

00:17:43   another garbage truck goes by again at a [TS]

00:17:47   pretty good clip on a different Street [TS]

00:17:49   it's not the same garbage truck it's a [TS]

00:17:50   different one on a neighboring streets [TS]

00:17:52   oh I hear him go by then I hear him [TS]

00:17:54   beeping and mind your mind beeping and [TS]

00:17:57   then one of them goes by my house again [TS]

00:17:59   in the opposite direction [TS]

00:18:01   still not making any attempt to stop and [TS]

00:18:04   pick up garbage and i'm watching these [TS]

00:18:06   things go by and I'm like I would think [TS]

00:18:08   that there would be a route through this [TS]

00:18:10   neighborhood that would just sort of be [TS]

00:18:12   like an S and one garbage truck would [TS]

00:18:15   just go s around and pick up all the [TS]

00:18:20   garbage [TS]

00:18:21   I wouldn't think it would require two [TS]

00:18:22   garbage trucks making multiple passes [TS]

00:18:25   before they arrive at their and there's [TS]

00:18:31   this is all this is all residential this [TS]

00:18:34   is all residents presumably everybody [TS]

00:18:36   has mostly the same trash containers [TS]

00:18:39   they're all identical ok alright this is [TS]

00:18:41   this is this is good this is a mystery [TS]

00:18:44   as the kind of thing you know once you [TS]

00:18:45   get this on your mind it's hard to get [TS]

00:18:47   it off right so you know I and I'm not [TS]

00:18:49   usually up at six or seven to be out [TS]

00:18:54   like chasing them around with that with [TS]

00:18:56   a clipboard state love that you get home [TS]

00:19:00   like any just a moment [TS]

00:19:01   hold on just a second here one of the [TS]

00:19:03   greatest experiences I ever had was [TS]

00:19:07   right when i moved into my house I'd [TS]

00:19:09   cleaned out all this garbage from the [TS]

00:19:11   from the house and had produced a stack [TS]

00:19:16   of like 30 black garbage bags it was [TS]

00:19:19   just a mountain of garbage bags out in [TS]

00:19:21   front of my house and I'd gone on to the [TS]

00:19:24   city website send and read all the [TS]

00:19:27   information about it and city has very [TS]

00:19:30   clear rules about overages they said you [TS]

00:19:37   get two garbage bags as part of your [TS]

00:19:39   weekly thing and then each additional [TS]

00:19:41   garbage bag is eighty dollars [TS]

00:19:46   quick question point of the information [TS]

00:19:48   so do you have cans for those are they [TS]

00:19:50   actually just bags on the curb [TS]

00:19:52   these are bags on the curb I did not [TS]

00:19:54   have 30 garbage cans had them stacked up [TS]

00:19:57   in a pyramid and a and I was very [TS]

00:20:01   anxious because I didn't you know that [TS]

00:20:03   was the only place I could put these [TS]

00:20:04   bags the garbage man was about to arrive [TS]

00:20:06   stair dismount bags and start counting [TS]

00:20:10   up in increments of 80 how much I was [TS]

00:20:13   going to own and he and I'm so that [TS]

00:20:18   seems like resort prices [TS]

00:20:19   yeah well I mean you know there they [TS]

00:20:21   they got a plan [TS]

00:20:23   this is all part of the system they've [TS]

00:20:25   they've determined the price of extra [TS]

00:20:27   bags based on an algorithm that [TS]

00:20:31   oh that I would be able to understand if [TS]

00:20:34   I had gone if I'd won my race for City [TS]

00:20:36   Council but I don't understand presently [TS]

00:20:39   and I didn't understand them it wasn't [TS]

00:20:42   exactly a dollar moves a lot of money [TS]

00:20:44   that was good to take all these 30 bags [TS]

00:20:46   gonna be a lot of money for the cheaper [TS]

00:20:48   have a holler person come out right but [TS]

00:20:50   I just cleaned the place out this was [TS]

00:20:53   this was all very fresh and so I made a [TS]

00:20:58   point to be standing next to my mountain [TS]

00:21:01   of garbage bags at seven o'clock in the [TS]

00:21:03   morning we are rolled I i had even [TS]

00:21:06   dressed okay because I wanted to be a [TS]

00:21:09   meeting you're taking yeah I wanted to [TS]

00:21:11   make a good presentation I wanted my [TS]

00:21:12   garbage person to like me [TS]

00:21:14   yeah I understand your karma the bass [TS]

00:21:16   player of the Death Cab for Cutie's had [TS]

00:21:19   worked as a garbage man into comas [TS]

00:21:22   hilltop neighborhood a long time ago as [TS]

00:21:24   a young man before he was a before he [TS]

00:21:27   was in a rock band and he'd given me a [TS]

00:21:30   lot of garbage man inside knowledge [TS]

00:21:35   stuff like this [TS]

00:21:37   yes he told me all about being a garbage [TS]

00:21:39   man he told the story about an old [TS]

00:21:41   garbage man on his route in tacoma who [TS]

00:21:44   had a very very large collection only of [TS]

00:21:48   discarded Polaroid sex pictures people [TS]

00:21:54   would take you know their picture of [TS]

00:21:56   their girlfriend or their wife and then [TS]

00:21:59   for whatever reason would throw the [TS]

00:22:01   pictures away and garbageman [TS]

00:22:03   I don't understand they moved pretty [TS]

00:22:05   fast but somehow they're also visually [TS]

00:22:09   sorting garbage probably a lot like [TS]

00:22:11   crows I mean just just in the sense that [TS]

00:22:14   they have a very experienced has given [TS]

00:22:17   them giving them a very attenuated I [TS]

00:22:19   toward a variety of kinds of things that [TS]

00:22:22   they might want to know about in the [TS]

00:22:23   tracking mhm i believe that too and i [TS]

00:22:26   think i would love to be a garbage man [TS]

00:22:28   for that reason but i think it only [TS]

00:22:30   really becomes meaningful if you've been [TS]

00:22:33   a garbageman for 20 years is canceled so [TS]

00:22:36   so according to nick this guy carried [TS]

00:22:39   his collection in the garbage [TS]

00:22:43   and he had multiple photo albums just [TS]

00:22:49   full of bees [TS]

00:22:51   I think you told me about this am and I [TS]

00:22:55   and I feel like because I have a I have [TS]

00:22:56   another friend who collects Polaroid's [TS]

00:23:00   that were taken in in prisons in the [TS]

00:23:03   seventies and his collection of prison [TS]

00:23:07   Polaroid's is really beautiful and he [TS]

00:23:11   says that online there are people who [TS]

00:23:14   are like also collecting polarizer [TS]

00:23:18   prison life in the seventies and that he [TS]

00:23:21   often gets into bidding wars with these [TS]

00:23:22   people and losses to have an original [TS]

00:23:24   copy [TS]

00:23:25   well that's the thing it's a pole right [TS]

00:23:27   right this is the direct connection to [TS]

00:23:30   the event and so i'm guessing that the [TS]

00:23:33   community of people who are interested [TS]

00:23:35   in a giant collection of like homemade [TS]

00:23:39   because the Polaroids not a very good [TS]

00:23:42   picture particularly a Polaroid taken in [TS]

00:23:44   a house at night in the country every [TS]

00:23:48   Polaroid is very intimate right and and [TS]

00:23:53   so it's it would be it would be it's [TS]

00:23:56   very intimate it's on unusual all these [TS]

00:23:59   pictures are from Tacoma that would be [TS]

00:24:01   there lot of probably through threads a [TS]

00:24:04   lot of a lot of red garter belts I mean [TS]

00:24:07   I don't know exactly what all was in [TS]

00:24:08   this but it was a collection is very [TS]

00:24:10   proud of it made me think a lot about [TS]

00:24:12   garbage men and what they're doing Nick [TS]

00:24:15   armor set a great thing to do on a hot [TS]

00:24:17   summer day is to fill the top of your [TS]

00:24:20   garbage can with ice and put a six-pack [TS]

00:24:24   of beer of good beer in a little ice [TS]

00:24:27   like a little ice nest inside the the [TS]

00:24:32   garbage can so when the guy lifts the [TS]

00:24:34   lid off here's this little icy beer [TS]

00:24:37   moment in their day and then that's the [TS]

00:24:41   consumer that's left that for the [TS]

00:24:43   garbage person [TS]

00:24:43   yeah as a token it's like leaving some [TS]

00:24:47   some beads and shiny glass for the crows [TS]

00:24:49   ok [TS]

00:24:50   and so one day on the hot summer day I [TS]

00:24:53   was out monkeying around my yard and I [TS]

00:24:56   remember this conversation and again i [TS]

00:25:01   was up early and so I was like a good [TS]

00:25:03   idea and I had some beer in my house [TS]

00:25:05   that someone had left Iran and I got [TS]

00:25:08   some ice made a little ice nest in top [TS]

00:25:11   of my garbage can and put a six-pack of [TS]

00:25:13   beer in there and I was so I was so [TS]

00:25:16   proud of this little beer gift and so [TS]

00:25:21   naturally when I heard the garbage cans [TS]

00:25:24   rattling and beeping in my neighborhood [TS]

00:25:26   I ran and hid behind a bush like you [TS]

00:25:29   like Santa a little bit like Santa I'm [TS]

00:25:33   like Heidi Heidi Santa and I'm hiding in [TS]

00:25:36   a bush and i'm waiting in the end of the [TS]

00:25:38   garbage trucks are going by and rattling [TS]

00:25:40   beeping and it was very frustrating [TS]

00:25:41   because I was like come on you guys they [TS]

00:25:45   had to do their thing all around my [TS]

00:25:46   neighborhood finally the garbage truck [TS]

00:25:48   comes and the eye lifts the lid off the [TS]

00:25:53   can it and he stops and looks at the at [TS]

00:25:57   the ice nest and the beer and then he [TS]

00:26:00   carefully takes the six-pack of beer [TS]

00:26:02   puts it on the ground [TS]

00:26:03   empty the garbage can put the garbage [TS]

00:26:07   can back and then they drive off and the [TS]

00:26:09   beers left sitting on the sidewalk if he [TS]

00:26:13   thought was a test [TS]

00:26:15   no I think he just didn't want me beer [TS]

00:26:17   or i but but I thought about this a lot [TS]

00:26:19   is he not allowed to take the beer sure [TS]

00:26:21   is there are he and his partner in [TS]

00:26:24   recovery it did he consider this our the [TS]

00:26:27   Mormons did he consider this to be a [TS]

00:26:29   like some kind of it an insult maybe he [TS]

00:26:31   did think it was a test it seems like if [TS]

00:26:34   you're going to test a garbage man you [TS]

00:26:36   wouldn't go to the trouble of making a [TS]

00:26:38   nice nest [TS]

00:26:39   maybe the maybe garbageman culture into [TS]

00:26:41   coma is really lacks and fun and [TS]

00:26:44   partying and garbageman Seattle are very [TS]

00:26:46   serious [TS]

00:26:47   so like I didn't know but I had I had [TS]

00:26:49   done this thing and it had been it had [TS]

00:26:54   been rejected that you know it had been [TS]

00:26:55   kicked back out [TS]

00:26:57   because it feels it feels like a like a [TS]

00:26:59   gesture [TS]

00:27:00   maybe they misinterpreted it i cannot [TS]

00:27:04   know and I can't know without having [TS]

00:27:07   gone as a city councilman and got a full [TS]

00:27:10   report from the entire thats really [TS]

00:27:12   washing over me at this point John [TS]

00:27:14   there's so many reasons to be [TS]

00:27:15   disappointed or frustrated that your run [TS]

00:27:19   didn't go the way we want it but I'm [TS]

00:27:20   just thinking I mean like in Florida we [TS]

00:27:22   had Governor Bob Graham who was famous [TS]

00:27:24   for always going out and it was a [TS]

00:27:26   regular thing he did as governor where [TS]

00:27:27   he would go out and work for being a [TS]

00:27:29   part of a day at all different kinds of [TS]

00:27:31   jobs that that seems like that would [TS]

00:27:32   have been right up your alley [TS]

00:27:34   oh yeah absolutely I would have done [TS]

00:27:35   ride-alongs with everybody yeah the [TS]

00:27:38   linemen and the sewer people and so I [TS]

00:27:43   you know kind of the soul totally walked [TS]

00:27:48   out me look flopped out into the yard [TS]

00:27:51   and picked up my unwanted beer and took [TS]

00:27:55   it back and put it in my pantry because [TS]

00:27:56   i don't want to either come out that's [TS]

00:27:59   the other thing maybe they just didn't [TS]

00:28:00   like to contact a sure all right who [TS]

00:28:04   know you just no way for now I'll never [TS]

00:28:06   know now [TS]

00:28:07   but anyway this one day the very early [TS]

00:28:10   on in my house i'm standing out there a [TS]

00:28:13   garbage truck comes around i'm basically [TS]

00:28:15   standing there waiting in a suit with a [TS]

00:28:17   bouquet of flowers [TS]

00:28:19   the guy pulls up gets out a recognizes [TS]

00:28:23   that I'm there to talk to him because [TS]

00:28:26   i'm standing next to a mountain of 30 [TS]

00:28:28   garbage banks and he says where we got [TS]

00:28:31   here and I said well I have 30 garbage [TS]

00:28:33   bags and I wanted to talk to you about [TS]

00:28:35   him and he looked at him and he looked [TS]

00:28:39   at me and he said yeah give me twenty [TS]

00:28:44   bucks [TS]

00:28:45   whoa i was like really [TS]

00:28:48   he said 40 bucks and I said sold i don't [TS]

00:28:53   know i don't want to keep talking this [TS]

00:28:54   up [TS]

00:28:55   yeah and I took 40 bucks out of my [TS]

00:28:57   wallet I gave it to him and the two of [TS]

00:28:59   us through 30 garbage bags in the back [TS]

00:29:01   of his truck shook hands and off he went [TS]

00:29:05   win-win everybody wins he's 40 bucks the [TS]

00:29:09   garbage [TS]

00:29:10   goes away it was gonna end up in the [TS]

00:29:12   same place anyway [TS]

00:29:13   yep and and I didn't pee dollars a bag [TS]

00:29:18   or whatever the city asked for [TS]

00:29:20   so there is enough autonomy there's [TS]

00:29:22   enough like opportunity for somebody to [TS]

00:29:26   to make a little you know to what their [TS]

00:29:28   beacon little sure [TS]

00:29:29   while the garbage all goes down the [TS]

00:29:32   stream so i learned a lot that day but [TS]

00:29:36   but a and I don't think it was the same [TS]

00:29:38   if he if he jumped out of the truck on [TS]

00:29:41   on beer next day I would recognize the [TS]

00:29:44   guy because he's seared into my memory [TS]

00:29:45   as one of the people I'm most grateful [TS]

00:29:48   to see how course and grateful for it [TS]

00:29:52   wasn't that it wasn't that guy was a [TS]

00:29:53   different person that didn't want my [TS]

00:29:55   beer my arm my late grandparents didn't [TS]

00:30:02   travel a lot [TS]

00:30:04   they mainly got traveled to buy us but [TS]

00:30:06   on the occasions that my grandfather the [TS]

00:30:08   rare occasions my grandfather and my [TS]

00:30:10   grandmother would stay in a hotel motel [TS]

00:30:14   my grandfather had a system to he [TS]

00:30:16   thought was pretty bulletproof and as [TS]

00:30:18   did include putting the TV remote in a [TS]

00:30:21   plastic bag now this before remotes but [TS]

00:30:25   you know that i can think about it he [TS]

00:30:27   went down he would very mindful II put a [TS]

00:30:31   quarter on the floor in in plain sight [TS]

00:30:35   IC and if that quarter was gone he knew [TS]

00:30:39   that place is crooked stones corner that [TS]

00:30:42   was his like you know quarter in the [TS]

00:30:44   coal mine [TS]

00:30:44   uh-huh this is kind of like in my [TS]

00:30:48   experience putting a walkie-talkie in [TS]

00:30:50   the middle of Florida that's right it's [TS]

00:30:51   an invitation to adventure but i think [TS]

00:30:53   we all we all have little systems like [TS]

00:30:54   that but when something like that [TS]

00:30:56   happens on that spy stuff like you you [TS]

00:30:58   know you can put like a piece of paper [TS]

00:30:59   you know in the door and if it's on the [TS]

00:31:02   floor you know somebody's open this [TS]

00:31:04   thing is all that kind of like spy stuff [TS]

00:31:05   you're reading books but like I'm not [TS]

00:31:07   sure if that's such an efficient method [TS]

00:31:09   for determining determining the [TS]

00:31:11   trustworthiness of a larger but I'm sure [TS]

00:31:14   it's not yeah because they might mean [TS]

00:31:17   just might not see it but on the other [TS]

00:31:19   hand this this could be something like [TS]

00:31:20   the sting this could be a long con but [TS]

00:31:22   when he would come back to his room [TS]

00:31:23   after going to the beach or or or Bob [TS]

00:31:26   naps or what-have-you if that quarter [TS]

00:31:28   was on the counter in clear sight i [TS]

00:31:30   think that made him really happy i bet [TS]

00:31:32   it did [TS]

00:31:33   yeah or if somebody had picked it up [TS]

00:31:35   from where it was and put it put it [TS]

00:31:38   somewhere else the place of prominence [TS]

00:31:39   like eyes on your court that that's what [TS]

00:31:41   I'm saying that's what I'm saying that [TS]

00:31:42   was that was a good sign for him i'm [TS]

00:31:44   sure i've told you about the [TS]

00:31:45   hundred-dollar bill under the American [TS]

00:31:48   hundred-dollar bill under the tablecloth [TS]

00:31:50   in Cuba story i don't remember if you [TS]

00:31:54   did have another friend who was a [TS]

00:31:56   journalist with things like you put [TS]

00:31:58   money in the kids bible and remember [TS]

00:31:59   read your Bible every day [TS]

00:32:01   no it was one of those things where the [TS]

00:32:03   Cuban Secret Service the Cuban spits [TS]

00:32:08   knots would put a hundred-dollar bill [TS]

00:32:11   under the tablecloth of someone's home [TS]

00:32:14   on American hundred and so in the course [TS]

00:32:18   of them cleaning their house they would [TS]

00:32:21   find this American hundred inexplicably [TS]

00:32:25   in the middle of their home and they [TS]

00:32:28   knew not to take it because it was a it [TS]

00:32:32   was a test it was a sign of hundred [TS]

00:32:36   dollar and a lot of money [TS]

00:32:38   yeah in Cuba 20 years ago it was a [TS]

00:32:42   life-changing amount of money at least [TS]

00:32:44   briefly but it was just like we are you [TS]

00:32:48   know we're in your home and not only are [TS]

00:32:51   we in your home but fuck you [TS]

00:32:53   oh my gosh like we can prick and we're [TS]

00:32:56   in your home and we are so in your home [TS]

00:32:58   that we can leave this here and know [TS]

00:33:02   that you won't touch it you know that [TS]

00:33:04   you can touch it and see available [TS]

00:33:05   yeah you would put your tablecloth back [TS]

00:33:07   down and walk around knowing that there [TS]

00:33:11   was this enormous amount of money under [TS]

00:33:13   the table cloth and you would just leave [TS]

00:33:14   it there until it was then gone most [TS]

00:33:17   complicated but now they're in your head [TS]

00:33:18   a little bit [TS]

00:33:19   oh yeah he had a plan according to [TS]

00:33:21   according to you know legend the Cuban [TS]

00:33:25   Secret Service of all the secret [TS]

00:33:27   services they did [TS]

00:33:28   little bit less of the you know standing [TS]

00:33:31   out in gorky park with a with the small [TS]

00:33:35   like file folder that they're going to [TS]

00:33:39   not a file folder but you know they're [TS]

00:33:40   not they weren't human Secret Service [TS]

00:33:41   wasn't rolling up a microfiche and [TS]

00:33:44   sticking it in cigarette filters they [TS]

00:33:47   were mostly a they were an internal they [TS]

00:33:50   were doing most of their work within [TS]

00:33:51   Cuba and they were really inside [TS]

00:33:54   people's heads you know it sounds a [TS]

00:33:56   little bit more like I mean I know the [TS]

00:33:58   Stasi had their very technical things [TS]

00:34:00   that they did but that sounds like one [TS]

00:34:03   of those you know in in sort of a on [TS]

00:34:08   totalitarian regime especially if you [TS]

00:34:10   don't have the the money you want people [TS]

00:34:12   to be policing themselves and you spend [TS]

00:34:15   a little bit to put the fear into them [TS]

00:34:16   and then you don't have to do it [TS]

00:34:17   yourself [TS]

00:34:18   right right well and this friend now i [TS]

00:34:20   dont i I've started to worry because i [TS]

00:34:24   don't i don't want i never wanted to be [TS]

00:34:27   a one of those middle-aged people that [TS]

00:34:29   was repeating themselves all the time [TS]

00:34:30   and ever since I started saying that you [TS]

00:34:32   said that yeah yeah yeah yeah ever since [TS]

00:34:35   i've started taking my my my bipolar [TS]

00:34:38   medicine [TS]

00:34:39   it has been reported to me that my [TS]

00:34:40   memory has suffered a little bit no [TS]

00:34:42   kidding [TS]

00:34:43   yeah but I don't remember it being that [TS]

00:34:45   way before well it certainly wasn't i [TS]

00:34:47   had a mind like a steel trap ensure and [TS]

00:34:49   pretty sure I mean we did need it but [TS]

00:34:52   couple hundred programs where I repeated [TS]

00:34:55   a couple of stories that generally i had [TS]

00:34:57   a sense of what weather story been told [TS]

00:35:00   before [TS]

00:35:00   well you're you're co-hosting with the [TS]

00:35:01   wrong seller ya there [TS]

00:35:03   I mean cuz I i do find your story is [TS]

00:35:05   very interesting and and I'm like it i [TS]

00:35:08   will often say to you I tried to qu as [TS]

00:35:10   we say in the business if it is an [TS]

00:35:12   anecdote that I remember very clearly [TS]

00:35:13   but you know you don't listen to the [TS]

00:35:15   show so you know how would you know but [TS]

00:35:17   i but but lately i have felt like there [TS]

00:35:20   have been a couple of instances where we [TS]

00:35:21   talk merrily about a thing and then the [TS]

00:35:26   response on the internet was I've heard [TS]

00:35:29   that story before and then [TS]

00:35:31   of course are our cabin marm yep says [TS]

00:35:34   well that appeared in episode 18 episode [TS]

00:35:36   940 you know like a little bit of [TS]

00:35:38   feeling like oh gee I told that story [TS]

00:35:41   and feels good I think we should [TS]

00:35:43   probably assume everybody's heard every [TS]

00:35:45   episode yeah I might let my favorites of [TS]

00:35:47   those are when someone says you know [TS]

00:35:48   john told that story before and then and [TS]

00:35:52   then when he told the story again [TS]

00:35:53   Merlin said exactly the same thing after [TS]

00:35:55   which honestly does not surprise me at [TS]

00:35:56   all well and I'm proud of the fact that [TS]

00:35:59   in most cases no one says that story was [TS]

00:36:03   a lot different the second time [TS]

00:36:05   well that's see that's that's good so [TS]

00:36:06   least you're still in it something like [TS]

00:36:08   stage one [TS]

00:36:09   yeah or or we got a full on David we're [TS]

00:36:12   like a you the the story changes a lot [TS]

00:36:14   as it gets a retold well or just told [TS]

00:36:17   over and over as though as the told as [TS]

00:36:20   though we've never heard that he was in [TS]

00:36:22   World War two [TS]

00:36:23   oh yeah right but uh but you know but [TS]

00:36:25   part of that is to confirm two people [TS]

00:36:28   that some of the fantastical stories are [TS]

00:36:30   actually true then it would be [TS]

00:36:33   impossible to remember a lie i feel like [TS]

00:36:36   that needs a little bit that there still [TS]

00:36:38   are the occasional listeners who think [TS]

00:36:40   that your stories maybe partly or fully [TS]

00:36:45   fictional they are just that they're [TS]

00:36:47   just stories actually that gets on your [TS]

00:36:49   skin a little bit but always drives me [TS]

00:36:50   crazy this isn't as this isn't some [TS]

00:36:52   stress isn't like one of those one of [TS]

00:36:56   those podcasts where people are talking [TS]

00:36:58   about supernatural towns [TS]

00:37:00   hmm this is a this is a like it this is [TS]

00:37:04   true true stories podcast true tales [TS]

00:37:06   from the from the Wild West but this [TS]

00:37:09   this friend who went to Cuba who [TS]

00:37:11   experienced this story of the [TS]

00:37:13   hundred-dollar bill he was telling that [TS]

00:37:15   as a prelude to his story which was that [TS]

00:37:19   he was out in the far country and in a [TS]

00:37:22   group of people and he at their request [TS]

00:37:25   you know you have any kids yes i do here [TS]

00:37:27   is a picture of my daughter he pulled a [TS]

00:37:28   picture of his daughter out of his [TS]

00:37:29   wallet he started passing it around [TS]

00:37:31   pictures daughter went around this room [TS]

00:37:34   and then never came back to him [TS]

00:37:36   oh and as it was time to leave he said [TS]

00:37:40   hey who's got that picture and everyone [TS]

00:37:43   was like I don't have a night I don't [TS]

00:37:44   happen and it was a finite number of [TS]

00:37:47   people in the room it wasn't like a big [TS]

00:37:50   event it was there 15-20 people there is [TS]

00:37:53   no that's nasty guy was like no [TS]

00:37:55   seriously it's time for me to go [TS]

00:37:58   where's my picture and everybody famed [TS]

00:38:01   you know complete ignorance we don't [TS]

00:38:03   know I don't know nobody nobody was the [TS]

00:38:06   last person to have seen the photo and [TS]

00:38:09   you know in his escorts who he presumed [TS]

00:38:14   were also secret agents or something [TS]

00:38:18   like time to go time to go and so he was [TS]

00:38:21   hustled into his van and taken off and [TS]

00:38:23   never you know in the picture was gone [TS]

00:38:26   and he was you know he was hurt and [TS]

00:38:28   insulted because everybody had been so [TS]

00:38:30   friendly and a little vulnerable and [TS]

00:38:32   that's that weird well six months later [TS]

00:38:35   he's back in america and in his [TS]

00:38:40   apartment one day the photograph appears [TS]

00:38:44   i'll come on [TS]

00:38:46   he tells the story as though that's it a [TS]

00:38:50   lot of work that God's honest truth [TS]

00:38:53   it does seem like a lot of work it seems [TS]

00:38:56   like a lot of work to do to accomplish a [TS]

00:39:00   very inscrutable goal or you know like [TS]

00:39:04   obviously what they're saying is don't [TS]

00:39:06   fuck with the Cubans but he's not he's [TS]

00:39:10   back in seattle he's not fucking with [TS]

00:39:12   the Cubans they may be saying don't you [TS]

00:39:14   know be careful what you publish be [TS]

00:39:16   careful what you say about Cuba whoa [TS]

00:39:18   journalists got it but you know super [TS]

00:39:25   spooky spooky action at a distance yeah [TS]

00:39:29   literally and that you know when he told [TS]

00:39:34   that story it was it was a little [TS]

00:39:36   chillin and I still you know he was [TS]

00:39:39   pretty trustworthy source and claim that [TS]

00:39:43   this you know absolutely what [TS]

00:39:45   would that was the one picture he would [TS]

00:39:47   remember it it there's no way it could [TS]

00:39:50   have could have appeared by accident or [TS]

00:39:53   happenstance it was that same picture [TS]

00:39:57   you know finger grubby with multiple [TS]

00:40:00   fingers yeah and it's not like it's like [TS]

00:40:02   the garbage men who are keeping a [TS]

00:40:04   Polaroid album like somebody had to get [TS]

00:40:06   that put it into a file folder with that [TS]

00:40:09   guy's name and be able to call it up at [TS]

00:40:11   a point later on I mean that that's [TS]

00:40:13   that's an information that's a that's a [TS]

00:40:14   knowledge management issue also mean [TS]

00:40:16   that there's a lot going on there a lot [TS]

00:40:17   of moving parts that had to be able to [TS]

00:40:19   somewhere with his name on it and i [TS]

00:40:22   think one of the other messages was all [TS]

00:40:24   the people in the room who were like oh [TS]

00:40:26   shows the picture of your daughter [TS]

00:40:28   they were all normal citizens they [TS]

00:40:31   weren't spies they were just normal [TS]

00:40:32   people but someone in advance of his [TS]

00:40:36   trip there had gone around and said he's [TS]

00:40:40   going to be here and and you know what [TS]

00:40:43   we expect or something mean there was it [TS]

00:40:45   was it was a casual enough exchange that [TS]

00:40:49   it it made it feel like someone was [TS]

00:40:52   improvising and it was oh you know here [TS]

00:40:57   comes the picture I'm going to grab this [TS]

00:40:59   picture and everyone in the room is [TS]

00:41:01   going to deny any knowledge of it right [TS]

00:41:03   it's just very deep and very dark a lot [TS]

00:41:07   of confidence expressed their confidence [TS]

00:41:12   that there that control is total train [TS]

00:41:17   so you know that's that's really [TS]

00:41:20   something that's that is a kind of of [TS]

00:41:23   like psychological control over the [TS]

00:41:27   environment to kind of gas lighting that [TS]

00:41:29   I really inspired by now i know i was [TS]

00:41:31   thinking the same thing if you really [TS]

00:41:32   want to if you really want to mess with [TS]

00:41:34   somebody here here's the thing this is [TS]

00:41:35   where falls apart for me like you might [TS]

00:41:37   have the wiring for this but I don't is [TS]

00:41:38   I'm thinking about these stories you're [TS]

00:41:40   describing you know things have come out [TS]

00:41:43   over the years about like the odd things [TS]

00:41:45   that on one hand the odd sort of [TS]

00:41:48   missions successful or abortive that you [TS]

00:41:51   hear about and just that the tangle of [TS]

00:41:55   like seemingly complex methods that are [TS]

00:41:58   used to do something that seems very [TS]

00:42:00   very strange and then cover up the fact [TS]

00:42:03   that it happened because they're always [TS]

00:42:05   saying it's you know you want to cover [TS]

00:42:06   up the mission but that was that term [TS]

00:42:09   there's you can also protect your [TS]

00:42:10   methods and lightning obviously you [TS]

00:42:12   don't want people to know if you've got [TS]

00:42:13   a double agent someone with that's the [TS]

00:42:15   term but you don't know if there's [TS]

00:42:16   somebody on the inside doing that but I [TS]

00:42:19   it just seems like you have to be wired [TS]

00:42:21   a real weird certain way in order to be [TS]

00:42:23   able to pull that off in the end to [TS]

00:42:25   think that it's that's effective as you [TS]

00:42:27   know what it's going to be an agent of [TS]

00:42:29   chaos like I understand like if you're [TS]

00:42:30   in some kind of crazy black ops [TS]

00:42:32   operation part of your job is to just [TS]

00:42:33   make castro think he's crazy probably [TS]

00:42:35   yeah but like you know it seems like if [TS]

00:42:37   you're expending resources and [TS]

00:42:39   potentially you know every decision you [TS]

00:42:41   make you've got to think about what [TS]

00:42:43   you're risking or potentially [TS]

00:42:45   sacrificing and it you know the trying [TS]

00:42:48   to avoid talking about the Republican [TS]

00:42:50   candidate here but like unless you're [TS]

00:42:51   really sure what it is that your [TS]

00:42:54   particular gambit is in service of you [TS]

00:42:58   know like what why would you risk it [TS]

00:43:00   right guys you know if you're if you're [TS]

00:43:03   running the Cuban Secret Service or what [TS]

00:43:04   are the Cuban whatever the conversion [TS]

00:43:06   the CIA is like I guess he just got a [TS]

00:43:08   long leash [TS]

00:43:09   I can't imagine well because it it begs [TS]

00:43:12   the question it does Cuba have a secret [TS]

00:43:16   office of agents in seattle washington [TS]

00:43:18   if so why and if not did they fly an [TS]

00:43:27   agent here to perform this weird [TS]

00:43:30   like we've we are watching you wear in [TS]

00:43:34   your apartment mission or was there a [TS]

00:43:37   Cuban secret agent who was in seattle [TS]

00:43:40   for other business and they gave him [TS]

00:43:43   this thing they said oh and by the way [TS]

00:43:45   on friday afternoon when you're done [TS]

00:43:47   with your other secret business run by [TS]

00:43:50   this guy's house break-in and put that [TS]

00:43:51   picture there just because we've got it [TS]

00:43:53   back here at the Home Office we're still [TS]

00:43:55   fucking with him like how I did that how [TS]

00:43:59   do you pick that day [TS]

00:44:00   yeah how did it how did it of all the [TS]

00:44:03   things to do [TS]

00:44:05   how did that make it to the top of [TS]

00:44:07   anyone's pile and i see i see where they [TS]

00:44:11   could conceivably be it you know have [TS]

00:44:16   that because it's clearly a threat right [TS]

00:44:18   there I can see where they would feel [TS]

00:44:20   like they needed to make that threat [TS]

00:44:21   right it's and it's a little bit of it's [TS]

00:44:24   a little bit about the Ceausescu apples [TS]

00:44:26   in the pine trees where within a within [TS]

00:44:30   a totalitarian closed circle he they [TS]

00:44:36   become detest so detached from reality [TS]

00:44:38   that completely insignificant things [TS]

00:44:43   like that take on added importance to [TS]

00:44:46   them because they don't you know and i [TS]

00:44:49   think at the time Cuba was still close [TS]

00:44:51   to Americans large now and so my friend [TS]

00:44:54   was one of the few American journalists [TS]

00:44:57   who added who were in Cuba in an [TS]

00:45:01   authorized way and maybe they had the [TS]

00:45:04   mental bandwidth to do this kind of [TS]

00:45:06   thing to the 50 American journalist that [TS]

00:45:09   had come to Cuba that year you know [TS]

00:45:11   maybe it was a manageable number and [TS]

00:45:13   they felt like if you get the [TS]

00:45:14   opportunity to to put a hundred-dollar [TS]

00:45:17   bill or their table cloth at some point [TS]

00:45:20   just to let them know that that Cuba is [TS]

00:45:22   watching its it with it because within [TS]

00:45:25   totalitarian like thought loops who [TS]

00:45:32   knows who knows what they have the [TS]

00:45:34   bandwidth for it maybe it maybe a jobs [TS]

00:45:36   program I know like a wpa for spying [TS]

00:45:41   yeah right i mean like in China [TS]

00:45:43   there are army people everywhere they're [TS]

00:45:48   directing traffic there standing around [TS]

00:45:50   in front of buildings they're opening [TS]

00:45:52   doors for people there that you know [TS]

00:45:55   they're out changing tires on the [TS]

00:45:56   highway there's army everywhere when you [TS]

00:45:59   think about it the people's the People's [TS]

00:46:01   Republic has the largest army in the [TS]

00:46:03   world and what are those people doing [TS]

00:46:04   all day you know they can't just be on [TS]

00:46:07   maneuvers right and so it is a jobs [TS]

00:46:10   program the they just there's a a they [TS]

00:46:15   have a million-man army and nine hundred [TS]

00:46:17   thousand of them are out directing [TS]

00:46:18   traffic so a form or more right i mean [TS]

00:46:24   they are they're just sort of their [TS]

00:46:26   omnipresent and but they're also doing [TS]

00:46:29   stuff that needs that needs getting done [TS]

00:46:32   and maybe that's true the the the the [TS]

00:46:34   Cuban Secret Service maybe they're [TS]

00:46:36   actually out like like sneaking around [TS]

00:46:41   turning off people's drippy water [TS]

00:46:43   faucets and stuff changing burned-out [TS]

00:46:46   light bulbs and stairwells are [TS]

00:46:49   determined one time it is a self-help [TS]

00:46:53   book about this called that is called [TS]

00:46:54   paranoia and it's about the idea of this [TS]

00:46:58   notional idea of something that's the [TS]

00:47:00   opposite of paranoia so paranoia is the [TS]

00:47:03   idea that forces are out to get you to [TS]

00:47:07   cause usually bad things for you and [TS]

00:47:09   paranoia is this kind of you admit the [TS]

00:47:11   sort of hippie idea like what if the [TS]

00:47:13   world is conspiring to make your life [TS]

00:47:14   great and that's it i'm saying it would [TS]

00:47:16   be kind of fun you know if you have the [TS]

00:47:18   resources to do something more like that [TS]

00:47:20   yeah it will be nice to have like a [TS]

00:47:22   secret government agency that just did [TS]

00:47:25   nice things for you maybe they put a [TS]

00:47:27   nickel in here in your parking meter or [TS]

00:47:30   something like that you know any maybe [TS]

00:47:31   maybe they trim your hedge and anyway [TS]

00:47:33   that would be very and maybe in a way [TS]

00:47:35   you hadn't even thought of a way they'll [TS]

00:47:37   be very complimentary you know just ways [TS]

00:47:40   that could improve your life that you [TS]

00:47:42   come get me some Roman and the and some [TS]

00:47:46   kind of like CIA edward scissorhands had [TS]

00:47:49   created a topiary dinosaur in your front [TS]

00:47:51   yard [TS]

00:47:52   so absolutely that would also [TS]

00:47:54   communicate to you that they that the [TS]

00:47:57   government had amazing powers and that [TS]

00:47:59   they were watching you at all times [TS]

00:48:00   yeah like a mean if you're going to be [TS]

00:48:02   creepy about it why not make it a nice [TS]

00:48:03   for people is oh so you are you know you [TS]

00:48:06   got a kid with the dairy allergy you [TS]

00:48:08   arrive home and in the oven there's a [TS]

00:48:10   there's a nice a dairy-free like a tuna [TS]

00:48:13   casserole but it didn't use any dairy [TS]

00:48:15   you know something like that where they [TS]

00:48:17   could use the information they have [TS]

00:48:19   about you and like in a nice way [TS]

00:48:21   well and I imagine we have more that [TS]

00:48:23   what's so hard about that right what [TS]

00:48:25   would if you had a smoke detector that [TS]

00:48:28   had been beeping for a year and a half [TS]

00:48:30   but it was way way up like up in a [TS]

00:48:33   vaulted ceiling you didn't have a ladder [TS]

00:48:36   and you couldn't get there and you [TS]

00:48:37   couldn't even remember why you thought [TS]

00:48:38   it was a good idea to play smoke [TS]

00:48:39   detector there and it had driven you all [TS]

00:48:42   crazy and then one day you came home and [TS]

00:48:44   it wasn't beeping anymore but you looked [TS]

00:48:47   up and saw the light on and you realized [TS]

00:48:49   someone had changed the batteries it had [TS]

00:48:51   to be somebody [TS]

00:48:52   it had to be somebody would be inside [TS]

00:48:55   your head you would be like what is what [TS]

00:48:58   is going on what is reality [TS]

00:49:00   oh gosh but it was also very nice [TS]

00:49:03   gestures never have a proactive positive [TS]

00:49:06   gaslighting yeah yeah I mean that again [TS]

00:49:10   seems to fall under the rubric of Elon [TS]

00:49:12   Musk [TS]

00:49:13   haha he knows Elon Musk in this he's got [TS]

00:49:15   a lot of projects [TS]

00:49:17   mhm I had a guy i was at a cocktail [TS]

00:49:20   party last night [TS]

00:49:21   Elon Musk came up ok I said yeah you on [TS]

00:49:24   muskets kind of a he's kind of amused [TS]

00:49:27   for me I I think about him as-as-as it [TS]

00:49:31   as a sort of the idea of the the the [TS]

00:49:35   Platonic idea of the of the modern tech [TS]

00:49:38   billionaire and oh and went around the [TS]

00:49:41   room and everybody in that cocktail [TS]

00:49:43   party agreed that Elon Musk was doing [TS]

00:49:45   two amazing things and then one of the [TS]

00:49:48   people at the cocktail party expressed a [TS]

00:49:50   contribution which was that he was [TS]

00:49:53   sinister figure and that there was this [TS]

00:49:57   Elon Musk worship happening in the in [TS]

00:50:01   endless the the person saying this was a [TS]

00:50:03   was a Sanford [TS]

00:50:05   scope person ok something's kind of [TS]

00:50:08   insider little bit inside or just being [TS]

00:50:10   in san francisco in the tech world [TS]

00:50:12   they're feeling a little bit inside [TS]

00:50:14   they've been to a cocktail party with [TS]

00:50:15   the Elon Musk was there have you [TS]

00:50:17   yeah and and it then then everybody in [TS]

00:50:22   the room kind of had to defend their [TS]

00:50:25   admiration for elon musk a little bit [TS]

00:50:27   you know to say like oh no wait and only [TS]

00:50:29   takes one [TS]

00:50:30   yeah yeah wait a minute will you know [TS]

00:50:32   this is what i was saying and it you [TS]

00:50:34   know and then it was my turn and I said [TS]

00:50:37   you know I'm not saying Ilan himself but [TS]

00:50:40   more [TS]

00:50:41   yeah right the Platonic idea like our [TS]

00:50:44   ideal like there are so many [TS]

00:50:45   billionaires who are not building their [TS]

00:50:47   own vaguely sinister space exploration [TS]

00:50:50   programs who are not planning to build a [TS]

00:50:53   hyper space train that goes from LA to [TS]

00:50:56   San Francisco but those billionaires are [TS]

00:50:59   boring [TS]

00:51:00   why are those billionaires not doing [TS]

00:51:02   that if I were a billionaire I would be [TS]

00:51:04   doing some crazy shit like that and of [TS]

00:51:06   course would look sinister yeah i mean [TS]

00:51:08   if i were a billionaire and I was hiring [TS]

00:51:10   a secret army to go around and change [TS]

00:51:11   everybody's the batteries and everyone [TS]

00:51:13   smoke detector people would say what the [TS]

00:51:16   fuck is this guy doing alright I think [TS]

00:51:18   you would do solar probably solar right [TS]

00:51:20   keep changing this will be a solar smoke [TS]

00:51:22   detector but you know I got off of the [TS]

00:51:24   airplane a couple of days ago and I [TS]

00:51:27   turned my uber app on and every time I [TS]

00:51:30   do I'm like I hate this company but you [TS]

00:51:33   know but also they do a much better job [TS]

00:51:34   than anyone else [TS]

00:51:35   yeah every time I think I'm gonna [TS]

00:51:37   protest super and I call a yellow cab [TS]

00:51:40   I have an experience that sends me [TS]

00:51:42   screaming back to burr and I know that [TS]

00:51:47   there i know that we have a small [TS]

00:51:48   contingent of London taxi drivers that [TS]

00:51:50   listen to our program that thang [TS]

00:51:52   conditions that is yeah that anytime I [TS]

00:51:54   talk about talk disparaging [TS]

00:51:56   disparagingly about about the hack [TS]

00:51:59   community [TS]

00:52:00   yeah he is this the the London taxi [TS]

00:52:03   drivers union of podcast listeners [TS]

00:52:06   responds very aggressively and to say [TS]

00:52:09   uber is a bad i think that's [TS]

00:52:11   understandable [TS]

00:52:12   it is but one cab drivers are [TS]

00:52:14   professional killed [TS]

00:52:16   that are how that are a an utterly [TS]

00:52:19   different class of people that have to [TS]

00:52:21   pass rigorous exams and they have a lot [TS]

00:52:24   of institutional pride that is not true [TS]

00:52:27   of yellow cab drivers in seattle in LA [TS]

00:52:30   right so I pull out my uber app i'm [TS]

00:52:33   walking to the airport in the good clip [TS]

00:52:35   here and and then the the app reports to [TS]

00:52:39   mean with a pop-up screen we would like [TS]

00:52:43   access to your location [TS]

00:52:45   prior to us picking you up and after us [TS]

00:52:50   picking you up [TS]

00:52:51   we would like we would like unlimited [TS]

00:52:53   access to your location at our [TS]

00:52:57   discretion so right now we're claiming [TS]

00:53:00   that we're going to we're going to look [TS]

00:53:02   at your location up to five minutes [TS]

00:53:04   after we drop you off to see where [TS]

00:53:06   you're actually going so we know whether [TS]

00:53:08   we're doing a good enough job of getting [TS]

00:53:10   you there or not [TS]

00:53:12   huh but that's that's at our discretion [TS]

00:53:14   because what we're really asking for is [TS]

00:53:16   permanent where we want you to go into [TS]

00:53:18   the app and give us permanent location [TS]

00:53:21   option known and then they say you know [TS]

00:53:26   click yes or no or or a click yes or not [TS]

00:53:30   now I guess something like that that [TS]

00:53:33   suggests that this is optional for you [TS]

00:53:35   and so I was of course was like no not [TS]

00:53:40   now let's give me the most no answer [TS]

00:53:42   that I give and I study of that and [TS]

00:53:45   still be able to get arrived right [TS]

00:53:47   that's anything that you got your you [TS]

00:53:49   have something to do you have stopped [TS]

00:53:51   because I'm I'm like you're already [TS]

00:53:52   you're already biting into my time of my [TS]

00:53:56   normal plan to have the driver waiting [TS]

00:53:58   for me when I walk out the door and so [TS]

00:54:02   then the app says oh ok if you don't [TS]

00:54:04   want to let us use our location services [TS]

00:54:06   which we've never had to do before we [TS]

00:54:08   now require that you manually type in [TS]

00:54:10   the address of your destination [TS]

00:54:12   we're no longer going to give you the [TS]

00:54:14   functionality of the the way the app [TS]

00:54:18   used to store where you regularly when [TS]

00:54:20   obviously their hands are tied [TS]

00:54:22   yeah their hands are tied and now you [TS]

00:54:23   need to take out a quill pen [TS]

00:54:25   and write down the address where you're [TS]

00:54:28   going and send it you know send a [TS]

00:54:30   scented letter by the bike carrier hawk [TS]

00:54:34   and I'm like I'm like listen I'm two [TS]

00:54:38   minutes from the door now you've taken [TS]

00:54:40   seven minutes of my precious time with [TS]

00:54:42   this war shit and and it's because you [TS]

00:54:46   are because here another one of these [TS]

00:54:48   tech companies that's decided that all [TS]

00:54:50   information should belong to you that [TS]

00:54:53   that's your the mean in fact maybe the [TS]

00:54:55   whole idea of Hooper has been a ruse [TS]

00:54:58   just to eventually get us all into a [TS]

00:55:01   position where you can collect our [TS]

00:55:04   locations constantly be be a apprised of [TS]

00:55:10   our location is a very interesting idea [TS]

00:55:12   you sons of bitches now and so now what [TS]

00:55:15   is I mean what if I mean you know the [TS]

00:55:17   uber of five years ago you wouldn't [TS]

00:55:19   assume they'd say okay this is obviously [TS]

00:55:21   a replacement for taxis that's what this [TS]

00:55:24   is [TS]

00:55:25   mm but they do a lot of stuff that makes [TS]

00:55:27   you wonder what they're really up to and [TS]

00:55:30   it might seem like they're not sure it [TS]

00:55:31   seems like they have some idea what [TS]

00:55:33   they're trying to do is we don't we [TS]

00:55:34   don't know what that is [TS]

00:55:35   yeah it seems like unlike a lot of [TS]

00:55:36   companies who hire lawyers to make sure [TS]

00:55:38   that the company is in compliance with [TS]

00:55:40   the law [TS]

00:55:41   some of these tech companies hire [TS]

00:55:42   lawyers with the full knowledge that [TS]

00:55:45   they intend to break the law and that [TS]

00:55:47   their lawyers are trying to help them [TS]

00:55:50   break the law in the most efficient way [TS]

00:55:52   possible knowing that they're going to [TS]

00:55:54   be sued you know covering their tracks [TS]

00:55:56   like the lawyers are in service of not [TS]

00:56:00   of like protecting the law or the [TS]

00:56:03   consumer but what of protecting the [TS]

00:56:05   company i mean i guess that's been true [TS]

00:56:07   oil company lawyers and tobacco lawyers [TS]

00:56:09   but but there's something a little bit [TS]

00:56:11   different about like we'd like [TS]

00:56:12   continuous access to your location and [TS]

00:56:15   it suggests that there's a minority [TS]

00:56:17   report future where uber is selling that [TS]

00:56:20   information so that when you walk [TS]

00:56:22   through a mall the billboards can [TS]

00:56:24   address you by name [TS]

00:56:26   yeah but in ad but anyway so then I'm [TS]

00:56:29   now I've stopped right I'm no longer [TS]

00:56:31   moving through the area networks was [TS]

00:56:33   totally disrupted right I had to stop [TS]

00:56:35   how to put on the brakes dig my heels in [TS]

00:56:37   he be now I'm standing there thinking [TS]

00:56:43   about what I'm gonna do for your back [TS]

00:56:45   and enjoy your back into a cold second [TS]

00:56:47   display them i am trying to figure out [TS]

00:56:49   am I going to submit to this indignity [TS]

00:56:52   in order to use this thing that i have [TS]

00:56:54   found to be more functional than other [TS]

00:56:57   systems or am I going to make a Pyrrhic [TS]

00:57:01   stand a mi Sisyphus here am I the one [TS]

00:57:06   that is going to insist on a body pat [TS]

00:57:08   down going through TSA rather than go [TS]

00:57:10   through there a particle accelerator and [TS]

00:57:14   I'm like okay / you know i do that thing [TS]

00:57:18   that we all do one another [TS]

00:57:20   he'll attaches itself is yeah okay over [TS]

00:57:23   and i go and i turn on my location [TS]

00:57:24   services and then everything the app is [TS]

00:57:26   happy everybody's back to normal [TS]

00:57:28   okay great and then all of a sudden it [TS]

00:57:31   doesn't recognize but the credit [TS]

00:57:33   information that i put in so now I'm [TS]

00:57:35   stopped again what to go through this [TS]

00:57:38   thing basically just to restart the app [TS]

00:57:40   and then attract then it remembers my [TS]

00:57:41   credit card ok so a little bit of a [TS]

00:57:43   hundred-dollar bill under the tablecloth [TS]

00:57:45   thing where it said you know remember [TS]

00:57:48   when you initially click know what we're [TS]

00:57:51   going to forget your credit card for a [TS]

00:57:52   couple of minutes that'll teach you [TS]

00:57:55   right little bit of that [TS]

00:57:56   mhm and so it's like so by then by the [TS]

00:57:59   time the app actually remembers your [TS]

00:58:00   credit card and works i'm fucking [TS]

00:58:02   grateful I'm like thank you / app don't [TS]

00:58:05   leave me stranded here and then they're [TS]

00:58:08   like and the driver will be there in 16 [TS]

00:58:10   minutes the longest I've ever the 16 [TS]

00:58:13   minutes at LAX [TS]

00:58:15   well interesting right just a double [TS]

00:58:17   little like kicking the creek in the [TS]

00:58:19   drawers [TS]

00:58:19   uh-huh and then final indignity driver [TS]

00:58:22   arrives first time in many many years [TS]

00:58:25   getting a car from from LAX driver [TS]

00:58:29   didn't speak English at all he was [TS]

00:58:31   Armenian or something and I asked him a [TS]

00:58:34   question and he gave me an unanswered [TS]

00:58:36   that was not an answer to the question i [TS]

00:58:38   asked [TS]

00:58:40   not even in the ballpark and then I [TS]

00:58:42   realized he didn't that was it was he [TS]

00:58:45   answered the question that way because [TS]

00:58:46   those were the English words in you [TS]

00:58:47   accept this is my proa is not on your [TS]

00:58:50   mind [TS]

00:58:51   no no I'm feeling like they are you know [TS]

00:58:53   at that point when i click no I i got [TS]

00:58:56   shunted over onto the couch in the good [TS]

00:58:59   fraternity and animal house [TS]

00:59:00   yeah and they were like let's send you [TS]

00:59:03   know send him the sent him the the [TS]

00:59:05   Armenian driver and send and and forget [TS]

00:59:09   his credit card for a minute so I when [TS]

00:59:10   i'm in the car and I'm fuming as you do [TS]

00:59:14   and I said what would happen if I now [TS]

00:59:19   i'm in the car [TS]

00:59:20   what happen if I turned my location [TS]

00:59:22   services off ya okay what are they gonna [TS]

00:59:26   do about winning idea i'm already in the [TS]

00:59:28   car [TS]

00:59:28   yeah you already gave me the Armenian [TS]

00:59:30   driver yep and so I did and we put it [TS]

00:59:35   along on their way to my eventual [TS]

00:59:37   location and then as I neared the [TS]

00:59:41   location i was watching his screen and [TS]

00:59:44   notice the screen was not being [TS]

00:59:45   continually updated and he was and the [TS]

00:59:48   blue line at directing him just [TS]

00:59:51   continued off into space and he was [TS]

00:59:54   going to keep driving and because he [TS]

00:59:57   didn't speak English [TS]

00:59:59   it was [TS]

00:59:59   it was [TS]

01:00:00   I wasn't able to express all the nuances [TS]

01:00:01   of this situation suggesting that they [TS]

01:00:06   were using the location on your phone to [TS]

01:00:09   guide his GPS our cheese and so as we [TS]

01:00:15   got nearer to my location I said pull [TS]

01:00:18   over right here you can just drop me off [TS]

01:00:20   right here and I've tried this with uber [TS]

01:00:22   drivers in the past and they're like no [TS]

01:00:24   sir [TS]

01:00:25   one guy said I have too much pride in my [TS]

01:00:28   job to just drop you off near your [TS]

01:00:30   location [TS]

01:00:31   you should have taken that into account [TS]

01:00:32   is I insist sir that I take you directly [TS]

01:00:35   to your house [TS]

01:00:37   yeah and at the time I was like uh this [TS]

01:00:39   is a tremendous inconvenience because if [TS]

01:00:41   you drop me off here i can jump over [TS]

01:00:43   this fence cut through this alleyway and [TS]

01:00:44   be where i'm headed in three minutes [TS]

01:00:48   especially once you're in traffic [TS]

01:00:49   somewhere like you're getting dropped [TS]

01:00:50   off at a hotel in a busy town and you're [TS]

01:00:52   like you to left turns from where you [TS]

01:00:55   need to be it's faster to just walk and [TS]

01:00:56   this was the thing he was like I gotta [TS]

01:00:58   go up here around the block around the [TS]

01:00:59   other block and then it's gonna go over [TS]

01:01:01   here but he's like I insist [TS]

01:01:03   and at the time I thought this is just [TS]

01:01:05   some some guy that's got the wrong idea [TS]

01:01:07   of where to put his pride in his job but [TS]

01:01:10   now i'm understanding maybe uber was [TS]

01:01:13   saying take people as close to the door [TS]

01:01:16   of where they're going to you can [TS]

01:01:18   because it's all part of the system [TS]

01:01:20   yeah because we want to know this is [TS]

01:01:22   that it's about the data it's not about [TS]

01:01:24   the not about the right we're not trying [TS]

01:01:26   to earn money here we're losing money on [TS]

01:01:28   the ride [TS]

01:01:29   oh brother we just wanted we just want [TS]

01:01:32   to get inside your bed [TS]

01:01:34   we just want to put a hundred-dollar [TS]

01:01:35   bill into your table arm and so I'd so I [TS]

01:01:39   ice yelled at this guy pullover stop [TS]

01:01:41   right here and at from for once in this [TS]

01:01:44   experience the language Gulf was work to [TS]

01:01:47   my advantage because he just didn't want [TS]

01:01:49   to have to parse anything more [TS]

01:01:52   complicated than that and it was like [TS]

01:01:54   okay right here okay and pulled over and [TS]

01:01:57   Johnson angry yelling Yeti in their car [TS]

01:02:00   no not at all particularly one where [TS]

01:02:02   where the location services on his boner [TS]

01:02:04   turned off who knows where it's called [TS]

01:02:06   who knows what kind of Secrets by I [TS]

01:02:08   and so off you drove and now i'm i am [TS]

01:02:13   i'm gonna be calling an uber today I [TS]

01:02:17   don't know i'm going to turn those [TS]

01:02:19   location services on immediately before [TS]

01:02:22   calling of the app is the appt gonna [TS]

01:02:25   remember we're gonna remember [TS]

01:02:26   interesting i wanna hear how this goes [TS]

01:02:29   going to punish me I don't know either [TS]

01:02:30   so I mean to whatever degree we can game [TS]

01:02:36   the system still to whatever degree [TS]

01:02:39   gaming the system is still like optional [TS]

01:02:43   built-in option i think we all should [TS]

01:02:46   not just with you but with everything we [TS]

01:02:49   should be constantly turning on and [TS]

01:02:51   turning off our location services only [TS]

01:02:54   as needed [TS]

01:02:55   we should be deleting cookies to see [TS]

01:02:59   your you become your kind of an advocate [TS]

01:03:02   well now i'm starting now I'm starting [TS]

01:03:04   to be a little bit of a like a internet [TS]

01:03:06   paranoiac mhm little bit of a put the [TS]

01:03:09   put the remote control in the plastic [TS]

01:03:11   bag type [TS]

01:03:12   yes where you know I don't know where [TS]

01:03:14   that remote controls been and i'm going [TS]

01:03:16   to assume it's been in the worst [TS]

01:03:17   possible place I don't know what I don't [TS]

01:03:20   know why instagram needs my my location [TS]

01:03:24   but i'm going to presume that they don't [TS]

01:03:29   yeah it's the you get the fear a little [TS]

01:03:31   bit [TS]

01:03:32   well you know in my case like i don't i [TS]

01:03:36   don't feel as fear as much as I just [TS]

01:03:39   feel like fuck you because all these [TS]

01:03:43   companies are trying to profit from [TS]

01:03:45   gathering this information but whoever [TS]

01:03:48   they the uber CEO is I just don't like [TS]

01:03:51   him [TS]

01:03:52   I I already know I don't like it because [TS]

01:03:53   he's not he's not he doesn't have a [TS]

01:03:55   space program [TS]

01:03:56   oh you know what I'm saying yes yes yes [TS]

01:03:59   if this if the uber CEO was worth a shit [TS]

01:04:02   I would know about him already because [TS]

01:04:03   you he would be making solar powered [TS]

01:04:05   airplanes this episode of Roderick on [TS]

01:04:09   the line is brought to you by Casper to [TS]

01:04:11   learn more right now please visit Casper [TS]

01:04:13   dot-com / supertrain here's all you need [TS]

01:04:16   to know Casper is an online retailer of [TS]

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01:04:42   it's an obsessively engineered mattress [TS]

01:04:44   made in America and presented to you at [TS]

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01:04:52   dollars but casper mattresses so much [TS]

01:04:55   more affordable prices start at 500 for [TS]

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01:05:04   that is a terrific deal remember this [TS]

01:05:06   made America your your-your-your [TS]

01:05:08   supporting the country to to to me to [TS]

01:05:11   understand how the Casper is different [TS]

01:05:12   you really gotta look at how the [TS]

01:05:13   mattress industry has worked [TS]

01:05:14   historically that industry has [TS]

01:05:17   inherently force consumers into paying [TS]

01:05:19   notoriously high prices but Casper is [TS]

01:05:22   revolutionising the mattress industry by [TS]

01:05:24   cutting the cost of dealing with [TS]

01:05:25   resellers and showrooms and they pass [TS]

01:05:27   that savings directly onto you the [TS]

01:05:29   consumer Casper understands the buying a [TS]

01:05:32   mattress online it can seem kind of [TS]

01:05:33   weird right now how is this even [TS]

01:05:35   possible [TS]

01:05:36   well buying a casper mattresses [TS]

01:05:37   completely risk-free Casper offers free [TS]

01:05:40   delivery and returns within a 100 night [TS]

01:05:42   period you try it out see what you think [TS]

01:05:44   because you know you can't just go into [TS]

01:05:46   some store and Lana mattress for four [TS]

01:05:48   minutes and decide whether that's how [TS]

01:05:49   you want to spend a third of your life [TS]

01:05:52   that's no way to live [TS]

01:05:53   that's why cast return the buying [TS]

01:05:55   process into a risk-free experience [TS]

01:05:57   casper mattresses shipped to you in a [TS]

01:05:59   box that you can carry by yourself like [TS]

01:06:02   a person you take it upstairs you open [TS]

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01:06:10   to life and have a beautiful night sleep [TS]

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01:06:15   mattress for over two years now i love [TS]

01:06:16   it best mattress I've ever slept on and [TS]

01:06:19   i slept on them all [TS]

01:06:20   Ben military school I slept on a on a [TS]

01:06:22   waterbed [TS]

01:06:23   I've done it all I've lived a life my [TS]

01:06:24   friends no matter where I travel I'm [TS]

01:06:26   always so happy to get home to my Casper [TS]

01:06:28   best mattress effort now here's a great [TS]

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01:06:45   Casper for all the great night sleep and [TS]

01:06:47   for supporting Roderick on the long and [TS]

01:06:51   so I don't want him to profit from [TS]

01:06:53   knowing where you know like exactly [TS]

01:06:56   which door in the hotel in the movie [TS]

01:06:58   help i'm walking through like I want him [TS]

01:07:03   to have to work a little bit harder [TS]

01:07:05   because I don't think he's using his [TS]

01:07:07   money in the creative but well yeah I [TS]

01:07:10   mean one thing about this is that you [TS]

01:07:12   think about the way most historically [TS]

01:07:15   the way most products [TS]

01:07:16   it feels like the most products get [TS]

01:07:18   developed is to say it is there [TS]

01:07:21   somewhere out there the is there [TS]

01:07:24   something out there where there's an [TS]

01:07:25   opportunity that meets a few criteria [TS]

01:07:26   the criteria of is there i guess the [TS]

01:07:32   sweet spot would be sorry I'm just [TS]

01:07:33   thinking out loud here but but is there [TS]

01:07:35   a sweet spot where there is a need on [TS]

01:07:38   the one hand so whenever one is there is [TS]

01:07:40   a need for something that is number two [TS]

01:07:42   not currently being serviced number 34 [TS]

01:07:46   people who will pay [TS]

01:07:48   ideally pay a lot for it and I guess [TS]

01:07:50   maybe importantly but where we have [TS]

01:07:53   unique sources to create a barrier to [TS]

01:07:57   entry right so you want to distract and [TS]

01:08:00   they're going to say hey look you know [TS]

01:08:01   if your job is like that somebody on [TS]

01:08:03   recently who like send your kid letters [TS]

01:08:05   from Santa and you know it's like well [TS]

01:08:09   that's not you know you can't protect [TS]

01:08:12   that idea and like anybody could do that [TS]

01:08:14   but like in that case you're looking so [TS]

01:08:16   because I'm trying to say is so [TS]

01:08:17   historically say well you know in the [TS]

01:08:19   case of uber that makes a lot of sense [TS]

01:08:21   because and you know I realize this is [TS]

01:08:23   not a particularly sympathetic point of [TS]

01:08:25   view but just to underscore what you [TS]

01:08:26   said you know getting taxes in San [TS]

01:08:28   Francisco has four years [TS]

01:08:31   and not just a source of frustration but [TS]

01:08:35   like it's a joke it's a joke how [TS]

01:08:37   impossible it is to get a taxi [TS]

01:08:40   unless it happens to be going by because [TS]

01:08:42   historically the way would work if you [TS]

01:08:43   call a taxi dispatcher who represents [TS]

01:08:45   one or more of these independent [TS]

01:08:47   companies and they send a little ping [TS]

01:08:49   one thing only and so a guy says hey do [TS]

01:08:53   you want to drive for miles across town [TS]

01:08:56   to go pick up this person and take them [TS]

01:08:58   wherever they might say yes but the [TS]

01:09:01   thing is if half a block later they pick [TS]

01:09:03   up another fair you're out of luck [TS]

01:09:06   they may not report that they've done [TS]

01:09:08   that and so it can take it would [TS]

01:09:11   frequently take us 12 in infinite hours [TS]

01:09:13   to get a taxi there's a lot of date [TS]

01:09:15   nights where we sat on the front steps [TS]

01:09:17   paying for a babysitter [TS]

01:09:18   what we couldn't get a taxi for 1230 [TS]

01:09:21   hours so getting me know that that I [TS]

01:09:23   mean like you know we will live out in [TS]

01:09:25   the boonies as far as San Francisco's [TS]

01:09:26   concern so unless you got somebody was [TS]

01:09:28   coming back from the airport already [TS]

01:09:30   happened to be out in our neighborhood [TS]

01:09:31   anyway I'm trying to say is that that [TS]

01:09:33   you understand that you go like okay [TS]

01:09:35   there's this company does this thing [TS]

01:09:36   initially it's going to be mostly [TS]

01:09:38   limousine type things that's what it was [TS]

01:09:39   at first and then we went to private [TS]

01:09:41   cars which seemed a little bit weird but [TS]

01:09:43   all through that you could still [TS]

01:09:45   regardless of what you thought of the [TS]

01:09:46   company you can look at it and go [TS]

01:09:48   this makes sense this is a classic model [TS]

01:09:51   of disruption in some ways anyway [TS]

01:09:53   skipping over some of the like weirdness [TS]

01:09:55   and unpleasant pleasantries but like [TS]

01:09:57   then you eventually get to wear like now [TS]

01:09:58   the app wants to follow where you are [TS]

01:10:01   you're like well how does that how does [TS]

01:10:03   that play in to the narrative on the one [TS]

01:10:07   hand it's sensible because why because [TS]

01:10:10   you know well this used to be about [TS]

01:10:11   replacing taxis now we're doing [TS]

01:10:13   something different which is like we [TS]

01:10:15   want to figure out what patterns of [TS]

01:10:16   movement are let's even say at a very [TS]

01:10:18   high level we want high we want to have [TS]

01:10:20   a high level of understanding that that [TS]

01:10:22   in this city at this time of day people [TS]

01:10:25   from this neighborhood tend to go from a [TS]

01:10:26   residence to a certain kind of business [TS]

01:10:29   if you don't mean if they've got a big [TS]

01:10:31   data that shows certain kinds of things [TS]

01:10:32   about that you can allocate resources [TS]

01:10:34   like on that you know that's that's a [TS]

01:10:36   classic example of how you would use [TS]

01:10:38   that data sure but like but then you [TS]

01:10:40   can't help but think but yet what do [TS]

01:10:42   they need my [TS]

01:10:43   data and why do you need 25 minutes [TS]

01:10:46   after it's like what is what is the play [TS]

01:10:48   for a company that is doing that and in [TS]

01:10:51   in the same way that you know faceboook [TS]

01:10:53   i don't know i'm starting a pundit but i [TS]

01:10:56   do think it's an intriguing you know I [TS]

01:10:59   thought experiment to wonder like what [TS]

01:11:01   is the big play here because we want [TS]

01:11:03   we've all seen you've all seen that [TS]

01:11:06   we're talking to our friends via email [TS]

01:11:09   saying like what are we going to get [TS]

01:11:11   together for eggs like we have a [TS]

01:11:14   standing egg breakfast [TS]

01:11:16   me and my friends the young dads club we [TS]

01:11:19   get together we all get eggs when we get [TS]

01:11:20   Meg's you guys I don't know let's get [TS]

01:11:22   some eggs yeah lets you know when her [TS]

01:11:24   wounds are egg experience and then the [TS]

01:11:26   next time you log in to anything over on [TS]

01:11:30   the side there's an advertisement that [TS]

01:11:31   says want some eggs like gangs come to [TS]

01:11:34   Bill's egg bill and you're like that is [TS]

01:11:38   creeping the shit out like what I was [TS]

01:11:41   not I was not on facebook liking eggs i [TS]

01:11:45   was in a private email conversation with [TS]

01:11:46   my friends about going to get eggs and [TS]

01:11:48   you your algorithm has mistaken what I [TS]

01:11:51   what we were saying we were just using [TS]

01:11:54   eggs as shorthand for breakfast [TS]

01:11:56   that's a pretty it's everything I mean [TS]

01:11:57   it's creepy and it's a pretty blunt [TS]

01:11:59   instrument [TS]

01:12:00   yeah right so uber you know at yeah i [TS]

01:12:02   agree with you that their premise is at [TS]

01:12:06   this super-high level we are making [TS]

01:12:09   models of of human movement to the point [TS]

01:12:13   that we can see that all of human life [TS]

01:12:15   is just a giant anthill and it's like [TS]

01:12:19   the city any city that has changeable [TS]

01:12:22   express lanes [TS]

01:12:24   oh my god the garbage truck is out front [TS]

01:12:25   oh my god hello garbage truck and he has [TS]

01:12:29   squeaky hydraulic brakes see they were [TS]

01:12:31   doing they were listening to the show [TS]

01:12:32   they're probably listening that's that's [TS]

01:12:34   prob well that's why the skyscape [TS]

01:12:35   dropped out earlier [TS]

01:12:36   yeah probably listening in and finding [TS]

01:12:38   out if you were talking about garbage [TS]

01:12:39   and that garbage truck was a clean air [TS]

01:12:42   vehicle so it was running on on like [TS]

01:12:45   fumes but but uh yeah right the the any [TS]

01:12:49   city that has changeable express lanes [TS]

01:12:51   where the express lane is heading one [TS]

01:12:52   way in the morning and then it is [TS]

01:12:54   heading the other way [TS]

01:12:55   the afternoon i have read in my in my [TS]

01:13:00   research about city systems i have read [TS]

01:13:03   multiple times people riding in to the [TS]

01:13:06   city saying look I know that express [TS]

01:13:09   lanes are moving out of the city in the [TS]

01:13:11   afternoon and into the city in the [TS]

01:13:13   morning but on the night of the big big [TS]

01:13:17   football game when there's also a big [TS]

01:13:20   big baseball game now with it hadn't [TS]

01:13:22   accounted for something slightly [TS]

01:13:23   anomalous right why don't you [TS]

01:13:26   acknowledge that at at that point in [TS]

01:13:29   time because the football and baseball [TS]

01:13:31   traffic is backed up all the way to the [TS]

01:13:33   bridge [TS]

01:13:34   why didn't you acknowledge this [TS]

01:13:36   difference and change on that particular [TS]

01:13:39   day the direction of them of the traffic [TS]

01:13:43   and the city replies even accounting for [TS]

01:13:48   the large large number of sports people [TS]

01:13:52   that are coming to the city still there [TS]

01:13:54   is more traffic headed out of the city [TS]

01:13:56   then there is coming in turns out and so [TS]

01:14:01   it would make it would make no sense to [TS]

01:14:04   change the express lanes because because [TS]

01:14:07   in the afternoons that's the direction [TS]

01:14:09   people are moving a lot more people than [TS]

01:14:10   the than the paltry hundred thousand [TS]

01:14:13   people that are all converging on the [TS]

01:14:14   sports game at the same moment ok [TS]

01:14:17   alright and so that's an example of [TS]

01:14:20   obviously the city has been spending a [TS]

01:14:22   lot of time collecting that information [TS]

01:14:24   and they know who's moving where and [TS]

01:14:26   what they're doing and they're making [TS]

01:14:28   the this kind of decision of with a lot [TS]

01:14:30   of confidence and when i when i read [TS]

01:14:34   that which was a couple of years ago it [TS]

01:14:37   made me really really want to go to that [TS]

01:14:40   room [TS]

01:14:41   in the city where they're all sitting in [TS]

01:14:43   a giant map is sitting in a dark room [TS]

01:14:45   listening to the whopper go what will [TS]

01:14:48   pop up as it calculates every car on the [TS]

01:14:52   road and all the the crazy traffic [TS]

01:14:55   signals that are doing things that you [TS]

01:14:57   do not you cannot understand why you [TS]

01:15:01   talking about Heisenberg I mean we think [TS]

01:15:02   about like you know for example if [TS]

01:15:04   you've ever gone nothing replica you're [TS]

01:15:05   going down like a cell or was it oak [TS]

01:15:11   like if you're going down the Panhandle [TS]

01:15:13   basically east or west and those lights [TS]

01:15:15   are time to certain way you know saying [TS]

01:15:18   so yeah you're changing the timing on a [TS]

01:15:19   bunch of lights like that's that seems [TS]

01:15:21   like not quantum crazy but like there [TS]

01:15:24   could be so many unintended consequences [TS]

01:15:26   of trying to social engineer that and [TS]

01:15:28   not getting exactly right for certain [TS]

01:15:30   ways that could go wrong you know if [TS]

01:15:32   there's an accident or something and [TS]

01:15:33   that that intentionally throws this off [TS]

01:15:35   in a way that's not helpful at all [TS]

01:15:37   well one of the most confusing things [TS]

01:15:39   for me is you know I Drive past Boeing [TS]

01:15:42   airport goings-on private Airport in [TS]

01:15:45   Seattle uh multiple times a week and [TS]

01:15:49   boeing has its own traffic lights [TS]

01:15:53   private traffic lights [TS]

01:15:56   well know what they've done is they're [TS]

01:15:58   bowing right and so they have a lot of [TS]

01:16:00   leverage and so what boeing has done is [TS]

01:16:04   there on this strip there are a lot of [TS]

01:16:06   factories where their their [TS]

01:16:07   manufacturing and smoothing out the [TS]

01:16:10   wrinkles on their Boeing aircraft yeah [TS]

01:16:12   and some at some times of day these [TS]

01:16:18   factories disgorge thousands of [TS]

01:16:22   Engineers all at the same moment and if [TS]

01:16:25   you've ever been somewhere where there [TS]

01:16:26   where anything is disgorging thousands [TS]

01:16:29   of Engineers and i know you have no I've [TS]

01:16:30   seen it [TS]

01:16:31   that's that's the thing that needs its [TS]

01:16:33   own traffic light right right and so [TS]

01:16:36   there are about five locations on this [TS]

01:16:38   long 10 mile road that a 10-mile mostly [TS]

01:16:42   strictly straight road where there are [TS]

01:16:45   traffic lights that make no sense at all [TS]

01:16:47   unless you are someone who is in the [TS]

01:16:51   parking lot of a factory [TS]

01:16:53   who's just gotten off work and there are [TS]

01:16:54   four thousand other engineers all [TS]

01:16:56   leaving at once [TS]

01:16:57   ok and so here are these traffic lights [TS]

01:16:59   and they offend me of course because [TS]

01:17:01   there's no reason for that except to [TS]

01:17:03   benefit this one this one situation that [TS]

01:17:06   was three times a day but insanely these [TS]

01:17:11   traffic lights also trigger at two [TS]

01:17:16   o'clock in the morning [TS]

01:17:17   oh that drives you crazy so you're [TS]

01:17:20   driving Alex's dad with a stop sign but [TS]

01:17:22   with a light that is that's pretty [TS]

01:17:23   presumptuous right and every time one of [TS]

01:17:26   these lights goes off [TS]

01:17:27   yeah it also then stays red for five or [TS]

01:17:31   six minutes as though a thousand [TS]

01:17:34   engineers in there like carefully [TS]

01:17:37   maintained Chrysler K cars as if they're [TS]

01:17:42   just pouring out of this parking lot [TS]

01:17:44   right he's sitting there honor you know [TS]

01:17:46   in a in a giant four-lane highway next [TS]

01:17:49   to a next to you know obviously a jewel [TS]

01:17:52   in the crown level airport just sitting [TS]

01:17:56   at this light like it like a total well [TS]

01:17:58   like cock lets me an entitlement wasn't [TS]

01:18:01   gonna say yeah let's let's let's speak [TS]

01:18:04   in New speak for a second and say what [TS]

01:18:07   you really are and so for many years now [TS]

01:18:10   i will stop at that light to just [TS]

01:18:12   disgustedly but I look both ways and [TS]

01:18:15   i'll make it make an independent [TS]

01:18:17   decision that I'm not going to sit out [TS]

01:18:18   here in the dark waiting for this fake [TS]

01:18:21   traffic light and what I don't [TS]

01:18:22   understand is how it is that that this [TS]

01:18:26   thing is in program to stay green at all [TS]

01:18:29   times until you know until 4 45 and a 4 [TS]

01:18:34   45 p.m. and then you realize oh this is [TS]

01:18:37   just a system of command and control [TS]

01:18:39   they just want to stop you out here to [TS]

01:18:42   see if they can they want to stop you [TS]

01:18:44   out here just to remind you they can't [TS]

01:18:48   take it that's not your hundred-dollar [TS]

01:18:50   bill and it's another example again [TS]

01:18:54   you know what your traffic light means [TS]

01:18:56   to me I'll stop I'll do the courtesy [TS]

01:18:58   stop I'm gonna treat this stop sign like [TS]

01:19:00   a yield sign [TS]

01:19:02   yeah now who knows that's making it into [TS]

01:19:06   my permanent file or not [TS]

01:19:07   yeah no no I know the garbage man might [TS]

01:19:09   be picking that up right now with the [TS]

01:19:10   spooky action right any any amount of [TS]

01:19:14   this kind of civic disobedience may have [TS]

01:19:18   repercussions I may not you know I'm a [TS]

01:19:20   log onto facebook and be reading you [TS]

01:19:24   know reading my friends accounts of [TS]

01:19:26   their recent surgery and some banner ad [TS]

01:19:30   will say don't like stopping at stop [TS]

01:19:32   lights maybe you should try checking [TS]

01:19:35   yourself before you wreck yourself or [TS]

01:19:38   maybe next time we stopped to let you [TS]

01:19:39   get a pan add four eggs right yeah like [TS]

01:19:42   it just pops up on my phone now speaking [TS]

01:19:44   of which I don't usually look at the [TS]

01:19:46   internet one talking to you because i [TS]

01:19:48   don't think it takes it takes my full [TS]

01:19:50   concentration [TS]

01:19:51   yeah but because I'm getting on a plane [TS]

01:19:54   this afternoon i just checked my email [TS]

01:19:56   real fast to make sure that they weren't [TS]

01:19:58   telling me that they spilled a bunch of [TS]

01:19:59   gas on the tarmac and I get to emails [TS]

01:20:03   back-to-back first one is from virgin [TS]

01:20:07   america an airline that recently spilled [TS]

01:20:10   a cup of coffee on me huh is it about [TS]

01:20:14   how you get extra reward points with the [TS]

01:20:15   less care it is [TS]

01:20:18   yeah I just got the same one we have [TS]

01:20:19   some exciting news about virgin airlines [TS]

01:20:21   integration with alaska airlines [TS]

01:20:23   starting today elevate members can now [TS]

01:20:25   earn points when flying Onalaska well [TS]

01:20:28   isn't that fascinating and then they [TS]

01:20:30   have in the email [TS]

01:20:33   both my elevate frequent flyer number [TS]

01:20:36   and my Alaska frequent flyer about that [TS]

01:20:39   so I'm like look at that you guys are [TS]

01:20:41   already you're not making me go into the [TS]

01:20:43   you know into your web service to try [TS]

01:20:46   and figure this out you've got the stuff [TS]

01:20:48   you've got the data right here [TS]

01:20:49   the very next email in my inbox is from [TS]

01:20:52   Delta Airlines Delta says and a big [TS]

01:20:56   letters in the pin the headline our [TS]

01:20:57   partnership with alaska airlines is [TS]

01:21:00   ending haha boy Delta in Alaska together [TS]

01:21:04   have reached a decision to end [TS]

01:21:06   our partnership this is a positive [TS]

01:21:08   milestone for both airlines as Alaska [TS]

01:21:10   focuses on its merger with virgin and [TS]

01:21:13   Delta this is the kicker line here Delta [TS]

01:21:17   focuses on expanding service from seatac [TS]

01:21:20   which is not coincidentally alaska [TS]

01:21:24   airlines is hub so Delta is Delta and [TS]

01:21:29   Alaska now we're going to war with one [TS]

01:21:31   another we formed support for seeing [TS]

01:21:33   this for a couple years those of us who [TS]

01:21:37   travel from seatac the writings been on [TS]

01:21:39   the wall how has it has it out the [TS]

01:21:42   feeling that the at the bigger army [TS]

01:21:44   diplomacy because they also got the [TS]

01:21:45   United now right busy night apart Delta [TS]

01:21:47   that right [TS]

01:21:48   oh is that right who is it who is it [TS]

01:21:51   then no that's not right united in who [TS]

01:21:53   else was there some kind of big [TS]

01:21:54   usurpation of one airline not too long [TS]

01:21:57   ago and probably what United United of [TS]

01:22:00   course is my sworn enemy right now I [TS]

01:22:03   know [TS]

01:22:03   yeah but but anyway big big big news [TS]

01:22:07   right here right after each other one [TS]

01:22:09   right after the other [TS]

01:22:10   yeah now now what am I gonna do now how [TS]

01:22:13   am I going to manage my frequent flyer [TS]

01:22:14   miles [TS]

01:22:15   our good friend jason has been trying to [TS]

01:22:17   get me to be a gold member for a long [TS]

01:22:19   time [TS]

01:22:19   mm that's his nickname of course [TS]

01:22:21   Goldmember hmm [TS]

01:22:24   and-and-and-and every attempt i make i [TS]

01:22:28   just get awarded get toward imported [TS]

01:22:30   everything look at that face on the tail [TS]

01:22:34   i always see it looks like Brezhnev such [TS]

01:22:35   as me invisible bridge Navy when I was a [TS]

01:22:39   kid the letter Y Z alaska airlines logo [TS]

01:22:43   guy they have the logo guy on the on the [TS]

01:22:45   tail when I was a kid [TS]

01:22:47   the tale of alaska airlines planes had [TS]

01:22:50   multiple figures on that there was a [TS]

01:22:52   there was a totem pole there was a [TS]

01:22:56   little eskimo girl there there were a [TS]

01:22:59   lot of things there wasn't one symbol [TS]

01:23:03   and over time they phased out all of [TS]

01:23:08   them and made that one eskimo guy the [TS]

01:23:11   face of alaska airlines he's the keys [TS]

01:23:14   the colonel sanders the colonel sanders [TS]

01:23:17   of Alaska Carol [TS]

01:23:18   it's my party and I see and looking when [TS]

01:23:21   the second he has like a prospector [TS]

01:23:23   looking guy on the prospector that's [TS]

01:23:24   right he was one of them and somehow [TS]

01:23:28   this guy became more and more stylized [TS]

01:23:31   and more and more cartoon yeah until now [TS]

01:23:34   he's just dumb i think a lot of people [TS]

01:23:36   who have never seen someone in an Eskimo [TS]

01:23:40   parka might not even know what they're [TS]

01:23:41   looking at [TS]

01:23:42   they might I I don't know if if everyone [TS]

01:23:46   looks at that picture and reads it as [TS]

01:23:48   what it is not at all why is this why is [TS]

01:23:51   the face of this guy in this i don't [TS]

01:23:54   even know if his little hood read this [TS]

01:23:57   fur it doesn't but it's very very high [TS]

01:24:00   contrast so right there's not a lot of [TS]

01:24:03   detail to it looks like it looks like he [TS]

01:24:05   might be a fella named Oliver I'm wack [TS]

01:24:09   oh I bet I that doesn't that doesn't [TS]

01:24:13   surprise me [TS]

01:24:14   let's say we have to make this photo [TS]

01:24:15   here he's a well-known Oliver is a is a [TS]

01:24:20   name not not unused in the in the the [TS]

01:24:25   Native communities of Alaska ok [TS]

01:24:26   something I've heard that before I i had [TS]

01:24:28   a friend named Oliver ok ok story checks [TS]

01:24:31   out [TS]

01:24:31   mhm mhm i had if I had a friend named [TS]

01:24:35   Oliver who was a who was a native [TS]

01:24:37   alaskan is what i meant to say yeah I [TS]

01:24:39   get it [TS]

01:24:39   so there is so I yeah right he doesn't [TS]

01:24:41   look it's not clear that he's wearing a [TS]

01:24:44   fur Parker at all right he just is a [TS]

01:24:47   he's a smiling person looks like an afro [TS]

01:24:51   right in a very strange head dress but [TS]

01:24:55   that is that's his / Parker he looks [TS]

01:24:57   more like he's got a missile like they [TS]

01:24:59   put his face on Brad delp's the [TS]

01:25:01   silhouette is the singer from from [TS]

01:25:05   Boston he's got a very well you know me [TS]

01:25:07   a very prominent afro right well let's [TS]

01:25:10   hope he doesn't end up the way by but [TS]

01:25:12   brad delp ended up [TS]

01:25:14   oh no did something happen while you're [TS]

01:25:16   not there you're not familiar with his [TS]

01:25:18   God not gonna look it up its tail alone [TS]

01:25:22   now he he was regretting now own ok [TS]

01:25:26   their move on [TS]

01:25:27   oh dear trash picker and [TS]

01:25:29   and he he committed suicide ok alright [TS]

01:25:33   and he uh he left a he left a suicide [TS]

01:25:38   note in French that said I am a lonely [TS]

01:25:42   soul [TS]

01:25:43   yes the singer of Boston our guy and we [TS]

01:25:51   can you what can you do a lonely little [TS]

01:25:54   speaking of bob ross i have feel like I [TS]

01:25:57   have very rarely heard you talk about [TS]

01:26:00   participating in the visual arts so my [TS]

01:26:05   question to you is and if you told me [TS]

01:26:07   this you can tell me to refer somewhere [TS]

01:26:08   else but I don't remember you ever [TS]

01:26:09   talking about an interest in Visual Arts [TS]

01:26:12   whether that's drawing or painting or [TS]

01:26:14   what have you do you have you ever done [TS]

01:26:15   any visual things as something spend [TS]

01:26:18   some time on [TS]

01:26:19   so when i was a kid i thought that i [TS]

01:26:23   would be a cartoonist wow I spent a lot [TS]

01:26:28   of time drawing it was my number one [TS]

01:26:31   activity it was what I did in school [TS]

01:26:35   instead of paying attention tanks planes [TS]

01:26:39   cars that kind of thought of the above [TS]

01:26:41   and then ultimately faces and figures [TS]

01:26:43   and then I started drawing cartoons a [TS]

01:26:51   that I never had a I never had a stock [TS]

01:26:55   cast of people it was more like bizarro [TS]

01:27:00   by Pizarro or I mean it was it was a [TS]

01:27:04   little not far society because the far [TS]

01:27:07   side had a lot of reoccurring chickens [TS]

01:27:10   and cows and stuff [TS]

01:27:11   absolutely it was just your everyone [TS]

01:27:14   panel man at one panel and a and it was [TS]

01:27:18   always a couple of people interacting [TS]

01:27:21   and I i drew a what I think we're like [TS]

01:27:28   proto pretty good comics so interesting [TS]

01:27:33   and hat and filled an entire one of [TS]

01:27:36   those artists notebook [TS]

01:27:39   sex with these cartoons and you know the [TS]

01:27:44   the challenge of course was to come up [TS]

01:27:46   with ideas and as I as I came up with [TS]

01:27:49   funny ideas I would draw them and then I [TS]

01:27:52   would encounter drawing problems as you [TS]

01:27:55   do that's how every artist gets better [TS]

01:27:58   you draw until you encounter a drawing [TS]

01:28:01   problem and then you try and fix it [TS]

01:28:03   try and solve solve for how to draw hand [TS]

01:28:07   and hard right solve for how to draw a [TS]

01:28:12   three-quarter view it's easy to draw [TS]

01:28:15   cars but even those you have to get [TS]

01:28:17   better at a car you can just draw a card [TS]

01:28:19   from memory you have to go study a car [TS]

01:28:21   because they don't look like you think [TS]

01:28:22   they look [TS]

01:28:23   yeah anyway so I filled up this notebook [TS]

01:28:26   all the way through high school of all [TS]

01:28:28   these hilarious what I thought were [TS]

01:28:30   hilarious and which were pretty which [TS]

01:28:32   sometimes approximated hilarious little [TS]

01:28:35   one panel drawings and then at [TS]

01:28:37   graduation I gave the book to my [TS]

01:28:41   long-time high school girlfriend and she [TS]

01:28:45   wasn't my girlfriend at the time but I [TS]

01:28:47   felt you know I felt the lasting [TS]

01:28:49   lifelong bond with her and so I gave her [TS]

01:28:54   my book of all my cartoons and she was [TS]

01:28:59   very appreciative of it because it had [TS]

01:29:02   become a filipino was like John's book [TS]

01:29:04   of cartoons that she knew there was a [TS]

01:29:07   big deal [TS]

01:29:07   oh yeah she'd watch me draw them I've [TS]

01:29:09   shown them all to her many times and she [TS]

01:29:12   was a fan of them and then somehow you [TS]

01:29:19   know I i left Anchorage and I was [TS]

01:29:21   hitchhiking around the country and I was [TS]

01:29:23   keeping a journal and throughout that [TS]

01:29:26   throughout my journal there are also [TS]

01:29:28   little caricatures and drawings and just [TS]

01:29:31   as I'm trying to describe something i'm [TS]

01:29:33   seeing I would do a little sketch of it [TS]

01:29:36   but that just sort of gradually went [TS]

01:29:41   away and part of it was that I was not [TS]

01:29:43   spending a lot of time sitting at a [TS]

01:29:45   table where I could draw and it was hard [TS]

01:29:49   to draw on buses and it was hard to you [TS]

01:29:53   know to make the time to stop and do it [TS]

01:29:55   because I was always in motion and I [TS]

01:29:58   just left i lost the habit of sketching [TS]

01:30:03   and a few years later maybe ten years [TS]

01:30:07   after I graduated I was with my high [TS]

01:30:11   school girlfriend and i said to her you [TS]

01:30:13   know that book of of of comics she said [TS]

01:30:17   oh yes and I said I mean I gave that to [TS]

01:30:21   you then and probably it's just in a box [TS]

01:30:24   now or something and I wouldn't mind [TS]

01:30:25   getting it back if you don't if you [TS]

01:30:30   don't need it because I you know I would [TS]

01:30:33   it would matter to me I'd like to see it [TS]

01:30:34   i'd like to interact with the guy and [TS]

01:30:38   she said that book belongs to me you [TS]

01:30:42   gave me that and wait a minute it is [TS]

01:30:45   mine and I was like rain [TS]

01:30:48   I to room and I think I do remember this [TS]

01:30:50   story was like well hmm alright i guess [TS]

01:30:54   what I don't suppose you would make me a [TS]

01:30:57   copy of it and did this didn't has [TS]

01:30:58   become grist for the idea that she may [TS]

01:31:01   be lost in was gonna cop to it [TS]

01:31:03   no I she gave every impression that she [TS]

01:31:07   uh that she occasionally referred to [TS]

01:31:11   that happen with a different note book [TS]

01:31:13   oh yes no there were the they were the [TS]

01:31:16   journals that were that were just [TS]

01:31:19   out-and-out stolen by and by another [TS]

01:31:22   roommate [TS]

01:31:23   as part of our by another roommate [TS]

01:31:28   as part of our that's right it was in a [TS]

01:31:30   box yes okay sorry i was conflicting [TS]

01:31:33   stories part of our breakup guys but [TS]

01:31:35   she's not gonna that's weird [TS]

01:31:37   he's got it and she's sitting on it and [TS]

01:31:39   i don't know i can't imagine that she [TS]

01:31:41   refers to it now but at that point after [TS]

01:31:45   i was out of high school 10 years [TS]

01:31:48   she was like you're not getting back [TS]

01:31:49   screw screw shoot like oil [TS]

01:31:52   alright so anyway but anyway so I was a [TS]

01:31:56   I wanted to be a comic artist and I felt [TS]

01:31:59   like comic strips and i don't mean comic [TS]

01:32:04   book I understand I understand the [TS]

01:32:06   difference but like comics comic strips [TS]

01:32:09   one panel comics New Yorker style comics [TS]

01:32:13   were a very high art form I felt and the [TS]

01:32:19   truly great ones rose to the level of [TS]

01:32:21   the truly great and I wanted to be one [TS]

01:32:24   of those and my drawing skill topped out [TS]

01:32:29   at least for the little amount of work I [TS]

01:32:32   put into it you know i was i got to a [TS]

01:32:34   place where I could I could draw my [TS]

01:32:37   thoughts but not draw them like [TS]

01:32:40   beautifully but you see a lot of people [TS]

01:32:43   working within that realm where the art [TS]

01:32:46   is is rough and so on [TS]

01:32:50   that's what I'm thinking that's one [TS]

01:32:51   reason to get such an interesting medium [TS]

01:32:53   because you know arm and it is it more [TS]

01:32:57   true than ever now with the web is that [TS]

01:32:59   you get to decide everything especially [TS]

01:33:02   with the one panel you decide everything [TS]

01:33:05   about that you get to decide like what [TS]

01:33:07   we know what it's about what the role of [TS]

01:33:09   of language and and like how detailed is [TS]

01:33:13   it going to be and if you can have you [TS]

01:33:15   can create something that's like [TS]

01:33:16   something you're capable of making and [TS]

01:33:19   then sort of evolved within your skills [TS]

01:33:21   can grow your you know whatever [TS]

01:33:22   direction you want to take it it's such [TS]

01:33:24   a it's such a DIY art form in so many [TS]

01:33:26   ways you're right i mean what it's done [TS]

01:33:28   well I different his dad was a [TS]

01:33:29   cartoonist and believe it or not in [TS]

01:33:31   Florida and had stuff in Playboy and a [TS]

01:33:33   bunch of stuff and I just think it's [TS]

01:33:37   such an interesting that's an [TS]

01:33:38   interesting idea where you know you get [TS]

01:33:41   to control the entire stack yeah [TS]

01:33:43   and-and-and you can it's like a short [TS]

01:33:46   story you can communicate an awful lot [TS]

01:33:49   and that's what makes New Yorker [TS]

01:33:52   cartoons so difficult for people is that [TS]

01:33:55   they often presume [TS]

01:33:57   a body of knowledge going in you know he [TS]

01:34:01   the the art and the and the one-liner [TS]

01:34:05   are the the art has enough visual clues [TS]

01:34:10   in it that you know who these people are [TS]

01:34:12   and where they're coming from and what [TS]

01:34:13   their past experiences and that's how [TS]

01:34:15   you interpret the line and if you can't [TS]

01:34:17   know that if you don't look at it and [TS]

01:34:19   understand who an Upper West Side couple [TS]

01:34:22   where he's a psychologist and she's an [TS]

01:34:25   art director if you don't know enough [TS]

01:34:27   about being able to peer into their [TS]

01:34:29   lives together to understand what you [TS]

01:34:32   need to understand when he says um [TS]

01:34:35   there's not enough almond milk in the [TS]

01:34:37   refrigerator [TS]

01:34:38   you know it to know what that means and [TS]

01:34:41   why it's funny right [TS]

01:34:43   I've been noticing more and more in [TS]

01:34:46   trying to occasionally eat vegetarian [TS]

01:34:48   breakfasts that the only thing not made [TS]

01:34:51   of almonds is the spoon right [TS]

01:34:56   even the polls like hollowed-out almonds [TS]

01:34:58   almonds so interesting so in almonds [TS]

01:35:01   serve and probably also is like a source [TS]

01:35:04   of protein that right social source of [TS]

01:35:06   protein you can milk an almond me like [TS]

01:35:10   free-range almonds get out there i guess [TS]

01:35:12   little tiny farmers I know how to make [TS]

01:35:15   almond milk take all men's water lemons [TS]

01:35:28   [Music] [TS]