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Roderick on the Line

Ep. 224: "Family Lasagna"

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0:00:15[Music]

0:00:20hello guy John I'm Merlin how's it going

0:00:23good how are you I'm doing pretty good

0:00:28good having a coffee

0:00:31yeah you know that seems like something

0:00:33to do we have our our teacher conference

0:00:36today and I always get nervous on

0:00:37teacher conference day

0:00:38what do you think is what's there to be

0:00:40nervous about well you know how it is in

0:00:44life you always kind of hope that things

0:00:46will go as well as you could dream and

0:00:50and you you fear that it's as bad as you

0:00:53imagined and they always they almost

0:00:55always go really well but still you

0:00:57worry about the one where you going

0:00:58they're like well we all have some

0:01:02concerns about your child's call know

0:01:05hello we haven't gotten that one yet but

0:01:06you know so he's dropped a little bit

0:01:08here the other ones and yeah i just am

0:01:11always waiting you know because she's

0:01:12been she's a good kid but yeah I'm

0:01:16always nervous because I feel like I'm

0:01:17on trial

0:01:18i feel ya defensive is the wrong word

0:01:20but I feel a little defensive

0:01:22mmm yeah will you give them homework

0:01:25uh-huh right yeah so now but you know I

0:01:28think it'll probably go find have you

0:01:29had any of those experiences yet once ya

0:01:33teacher conference went to a teacher

0:01:35conference skip the PTA meeting so far

0:01:40mmm teacher compensation you should

0:01:42really get yourself to at least a few

0:01:44this

0:01:45oh yeah i know they're in my future

0:01:46right there was just one that was like

0:01:49oh great one

0:01:51hey come to the PTA meeting tonight if

0:01:55you want to order bottles of wine with

0:02:00your child's picture on them all its

0:02:02Rick training wheel nuts big lovely

0:02:06gifts

0:02:07this is your last chance this is like my

0:02:09dream and you're not gonna send you

0:02:11another email up this is only the eight

0:02:14comes the big 90 many limited

0:02:17opportunities every week and so I said

0:02:20this is this is a PTA room organization

0:02:23i'm gonna I'll get involved

0:02:26not quite yet I made that mistake when I

0:02:30was when we were in pre-k

0:02:32and I went in and said sure I'll join

0:02:35the Executive Board I told you this I'm

0:02:39sure went and sat down at the first

0:02:42meeting and they were running the

0:02:44meeting like full-on Robert's Rules of

0:02:48Order No Wow and just real quickly if it

0:02:52without revealing too much was your

0:02:54pre-k of any particular stripe

0:02:58methodology philosophy was it sort of

0:03:00allied with any big ideas uh the big

0:03:04idea it was a cooperative preschool

0:03:06yeah me too which means that everybody

0:03:07was there all hands on deck at work but

0:03:10I was in this executive board meeting

0:03:11the first one and they started running

0:03:14down the minutes of them and i could not

0:03:20I thought I felt that feeling that you

0:03:24that maybe it was like a bad dream where

0:03:26you were in fifth grade and you had been

0:03:29mistakenly put in 15th grade yeah where

0:03:33I was like what way will I i drifted off

0:03:35their what what are we talking about and

0:03:38I and you know then my eyes were were

0:03:41like i was i was falling asleep in my

0:03:44chair my eyes were like yeah I'm

0:03:45uncontrollably drooping and like 45

0:03:50minutes into an hour-long meeting I said

0:03:51I can never be here again I this has

0:03:54been a horrible mistake but it turned

0:03:57out that my daughter's mother goes to

0:04:00those things all the time and she she

0:04:03happily not happily but she took my

0:04:06place and no one even noticed one thing

0:04:09we have in common we both have young

0:04:10daughters and we both have baby mamas

0:04:13who are how shall I say and I mean this

0:04:17as the extreme compliment that is it

0:04:19helped capable they're capable when they

0:04:22they go places and they do stuff and

0:04:26they don't piss and moan about minor

0:04:28inconveniences whereas we made a career

0:04:30out of that wouldn't that be something

0:04:32she's not my wife she cool she goes to

0:04:35some meetings and she goes to a lot of

0:04:37meetings you know there's one kind of

0:04:38meeting or like like like you going like

0:04:40you're the guest speaker and I got to

0:04:42find meaning i like those this yeah

0:04:44right

0:04:44actually that that's the podcasters type

0:04:46of meeting it gets bigger

0:04:48hello but a lot of those kinds of

0:04:53meetings I they have certain valence to

0:04:57them that are not well suited to people

0:05:00like you and me nobody there is

0:05:02necessarily happy to be there but they

0:05:04they're more grown-up about it they

0:05:06handle it better and on occasion i am

0:05:09sure i told you the story but on

0:05:10occasion i would I you know what with

0:05:12what with the preschools it was a co-op

0:05:15like yours and you gotta help out

0:05:17I mean yeah stuff does not get done

0:05:19unless everybody does more than they

0:05:21need to because there are a lot of

0:05:23people aren't who are supposed to be

0:05:24doing what they need to and you end up

0:05:26doing more than you need to do then you

0:05:28need to do so that's just to do to do to

0:05:32do i was at a dinner party

0:05:34not very long ago in a cabin which wait

0:05:38for it didn't have a dishwasher

0:05:41huh now it's been a long time since I've

0:05:44been someplace that didn't have a

0:05:46dishwasher because I state of mind

0:05:48yeah i'm a i'm a downtown person and uh

0:05:52we live in a you know interrupt in the

0:05:54rarefied air of the ivory tower of

0:05:57Seattle one of the two towers who and I

0:06:03so I'm at this party and you know we're

0:06:08making dishes faster than we're making

0:06:11any other thing this is your meat

0:06:13centric wedding party

0:06:16well same cabin different events when we

0:06:20were making we're making plates at the

0:06:23at the at the boy party and yeah there

0:06:28was a certain amount of like our I don't

0:06:29gotta do the dishes one of the guys at

0:06:32the at the at the boy party was a nag

0:06:34right about the dishes and stuff me

0:06:37tells me all right but then we're at a

0:06:41we're at a party at the same place few

0:06:43weeks later it was a it was a

0:06:46mixed-gender party and we were just

0:06:50making we're making dirty dishes like

0:06:53you're going out of style because it was

0:06:54one of those dinner parties we're making

0:06:56the food all

0:06:57only making the food making some pasta

0:06:59making some sauce making some cake

0:07:02that's that's that's a lot of dishes

0:07:04making making making make him and these

0:07:08dishes needed to get done and I jump

0:07:10over and I started doing dishes and you

0:07:12know it's a it's like riding a bike

0:07:14right I haven't sat us in a sudsy sink

0:07:17and done dishes in a long time but you

0:07:20don't forget how to do it and it and

0:07:23it's like back in the you know I was

0:07:25back in the dishes who felt real it kind

0:07:29of felt real good i was always I was

0:07:32always too meticulous about doing the

0:07:35dishes interesting and I never

0:07:38understood when people would say you're

0:07:40being too meticulous i would say how can

0:07:43you be too meticulous in cleaning dirty

0:07:46dishes

0:07:48I mean I just want to make sure that

0:07:49they're they're very clean and they're

0:07:52like yeah I've been watching you been

0:07:54we've watched that one dish for three

0:07:56minutes and I'm like yeah that's what it

0:07:58takes three minutes dish

0:08:01this is this a gun on the moon right and

0:08:04you don't you don't get on the moon by

0:08:06just watching some water around

0:08:07no that's right you make sure every inch

0:08:10of that dish is clean and molecular you

0:08:12got the right stuff so I'm doing the

0:08:16dishes i'm making my way through it the

0:08:17problem with spending three minutes per

0:08:20dish is that three-quarters of the way

0:08:22through a big pile of dishes

0:08:23your hands are fully saturated huh like

0:08:27my hands were like look but you know on

0:08:33on on I go right

0:08:36Semper Fi yeah dude I and uh and it was

0:08:40it was it was it was super gratified but

0:08:44it was some there was a visit is a

0:08:48methodology and there's a way you know

0:08:50there's like a every house has a

0:08:52different style

0:08:54oh so different you know and so I'm

0:08:57stacking them up over here but that's

0:08:58not where they go when you start with

0:09:00something as simple as bottoms up

0:09:02bottoms down

0:09:03that's the or you know you get into

0:09:05stuff like what-what silver silverware

0:09:07makes sense to go to this place like

0:09:09that why would you keep your knives

0:09:11there

0:09:11but I think bottoms up bottoms down i

0:09:13used to be a used to be a bottoms-up

0:09:14person and now i think those people are

0:09:16monsters

0:09:17if you wash cup why would you put the

0:09:20lip of the cup on the filthy like when

0:09:24you put it away like would you put it in

0:09:25the cupboard like lip down that's that's

0:09:29so gross don't talk about well I know it

0:09:34all too well because i am a bottoms-up

0:09:36person interesting it's time for this

0:09:39country to come together

0:09:41why why would you put a coffee mug in

0:09:44the cupboard where all of the detritus

0:09:48that falls from the sky

0:09:49I see me what you're worried about

0:09:51gravity plus the Flies mm and the like

0:09:56geckos yeah like anything that wants to

0:09:59get out of the night geckos

0:10:01well shit the with the woofers and

0:10:03tweeters come out of your speakers in

0:10:04the middle of the night and they're

0:10:05going around licking all the rims

0:10:07that's what they do they like the rims

0:10:09they climb into your cups and pots

0:10:10stander back into the speakers in the

0:10:13morning before you get down

0:10:15yeah yeah so no you put the lips down

0:10:17and then all that stuff they're just you

0:10:20know they're like all you see them all

0:10:22the geckos know the tweeters they're all

0:10:25like clawing at the cop let me and let

0:10:27me in i want to get on the get in the

0:10:30cabins like sorry buddy but up

0:10:32mhm now at that particular event was

0:10:36there was there a sense that somebody

0:10:39will take care of this

0:10:40no because that there was some times

0:10:43that that's what happens when you get an

0:10:44event like that is and get you actually

0:10:46this does there's a thread that runs

0:10:48through all of this which is like being

0:10:49around people who have just as strong

0:10:52feeling about how to do this as you do

0:10:55and it's very very different like a

0:10:57different feeling about how this should

0:10:58go

0:10:59you don't mean I do like there's always

0:11:02there who's like never watched edition

0:11:04their life they're like they're gonna

0:11:05think that's in front that's an attack

0:11:06that's a punishment

0:11:08OIC doing dishes just any of it just me

0:11:11or whether it's going to the meeting

0:11:12where they talk for literally 45 minutes

0:11:14about how to deal with the fact that the

0:11:16chickens are pooping in the yard and

0:11:17gets on the children shoes I did feel

0:11:19like that was a punishment

0:11:20mmm

0:11:21then see the first party I went to the

0:11:23NAG guy meg I was the one that was like

0:11:27well your mom doesn't live here

0:11:29hmm where I was like all right pal but

0:11:34the second one it's like we're gonna

0:11:36wear a dinner party and its fancy fancy

0:11:40enough we're making our own pasta

0:11:43wow I'm not gonna be the one that's

0:11:46sitting in the chair a pretending that

0:11:49retained a nap when the dishes need to

0:11:51get washed

0:11:52you know i'm not going to be the ones

0:11:53like huh what does not just take care of

0:11:56itself you know you're trying to get

0:11:58called on in class like not like noticed

0:12:00yeah you don't want to be that you want

0:12:01to be the one that's like way that's a

0:12:02step ahead of the game i can't let me

0:12:04get in there and get me to take care of

0:12:05that sin there's the guy that I've been

0:12:07which is a seems only slightly better

0:12:10but is actually much worse which is um

0:12:12you guys want me to do the dishes but no

0:12:15no you relax somebody else such as the

0:12:17dishes never asked what does somebody

0:12:20want me to get more beer

0:12:22no don't know you just you just you just

0:12:24sit here and play DJ oh that's right

0:12:28that is a job tho never cursed me to be

0:12:31DJ really uh no I leave that to people

0:12:37that have strong feelings about being DJ

0:12:38em but when I'm appointed DJ hmm then

0:12:44look out the roof is coming off this

0:12:46party mhm I mean I love being DJ I'm

0:12:49just not gonna I'm not gonna stand in

0:12:51line to be DJ and I'm not gonna sit

0:12:54there and you know like I'm not unzip my

0:12:56pants m to be DJ ok i was a little bit

0:13:00here oh my niece's wedding a couple

0:13:02years ago because I was the only person

0:13:03who had such great heights on the phone

0:13:05oh that's nothing which we live in now

0:13:08is likely there's a caller to call out

0:13:09the the bride is a couple drinks she

0:13:12really wants to hear such great heights

0:13:13and they are oddly enough the DJ didn't

0:13:15have it

0:13:15this is a call to all mhm um she was a

0:13:20whole she got a little tipsy and she was

0:13:23like oh they're both guys hates her day

0:13:27you know and you're like step size

0:13:31inbee man is here actually gonna

0:13:35constantly you district sleeps alone is

0:13:37really good but that doesn't mean you

0:13:39know what that that's kind of

0:13:41lesser-known track but i think it's got

0:13:43a lot of trooper who leases REM demos

0:13:45have you ever heard

0:13:46guided by voices all gather around i'm

0:13:50going to show you guys how to kick at a

0:13:51party set aside your chicken dance it

0:13:54haha i would if i were if I were djing a

0:14:03wedding i would just play god only knows

0:14:05on permanent loop

0:14:06oh that's a great choice you know you

0:14:09don't know where that song ends so you

0:14:11can just loop if you loop it properly

0:14:13just keep going yeah he totally could

0:14:16and maybe people would notice but you

0:14:18know i have a this is I guess kind of a

0:14:19bit but i have a problem with wedding

0:14:22djs it's like every part of the getting

0:14:25married industry it has a great gaping

0:14:28maw and giant teeth and you think it's

0:14:31gonna be a friendly dragon you think

0:14:32like they say oh you know we can make

0:14:34these petty fours just the way you want

0:14:36the buttercreams gonna be exactly like

0:14:38your dreams and you know it's like no no

0:14:42the ER and never forget this Miami my

0:14:44primary high school girlfriend got

0:14:46married and went to your wedding

0:14:48the German secondary high school program

0:14:49i had secondary and tertiary high school

0:14:51girlfriends but my primary high school

0:14:52girlfriend was kinda nuts aren't

0:14:54watching body but I went to her wedding

0:14:56and and she had been like super clear

0:15:00with the DJ about a few things and like

0:15:04she you know you know everybody is

0:15:06whether you're given birth

0:15:07we're getting married you're making a

0:15:08website you got certain things you have

0:15:10like not that much of a feeling about a

0:15:12couple things we like I really want to

0:15:14have this one thing I wanted dancing

0:15:15panda and head of the page and then you

0:15:17might have some things we go like I

0:15:18really it's so important to me above all

0:15:21else that these things not happen right

0:15:23away no rhinoceroses know and she said

0:15:27she's looked into his eyes and said I i

0:15:30am the bride

0:15:32hey and here's here's here's a very

0:15:35serves two things she's like I want you

0:15:37to play at one point I'm gonna want you

0:15:40to play melt with you modern English

0:15:43would be

0:15:44got the original or the the what the

0:15:46original no I given given one of my

0:15:50primary high school girlfriend it was it

0:15:51was definitely be the yeah the original

0:15:53you remember you remember they came out

0:15:55with it again like two years later

0:15:57bringing on the heartbreak

0:15:59that's right that's right that's right

0:16:01when they came out the next record they

0:16:02think of me like think a lot of people

0:16:04would listen to the original bringing on

0:16:06the heartbreak and be kind of maybe even

0:16:08confused because it doesn't have the

0:16:10keyboard and stuff on it rite of the

0:16:12second it's much more about the John

0:16:14John John you know what I mean to do is

0:16:17it's a different song and I think are

0:16:19the request i see i remember her

0:16:20enjoying the chicken dance but I feel

0:16:22like she said something there was some

0:16:24kind of one of those things that every

0:16:26DJ does unless for the sake of this

0:16:28argument let's say it's the chicken

0:16:29dance

0:16:29she was the chicken big pop up above a

0:16:34bump and this dance that goes with that

0:16:36we flap your arms you ever done a

0:16:37chicken dance

0:16:38what you see you sweating and you've

0:16:41never done a chicken dance

0:16:42this feels like a very regional idea of

0:16:45how to marry another person it's kinda

0:16:48like suburban moral stance we really

0:16:49gotta get back to more stances simple

0:16:50this is a masquerade nothing

0:16:52it's like a macro and thinking how green

0:16:53is like a wedding thing now I see the

0:16:56only reason i am said macaroni the thing

0:16:58is that somehow I knew that it was a

0:16:59wedding thing but I don't know about

0:17:00chicken pants okay i don't know from

0:17:02chicken dances yeah but you know but you

0:17:05know how to DJ at a wedding this i mean

0:17:06no disrespect to the industry of wedding

0:17:08teaches i'm sure they're hard-working

0:17:09people but they do have a way they like

0:17:12to do things and they got a bit somebody

0:17:13has on microphone and they start running

0:17:15things and they become the over-the-top

0:17:18like drive time DJ person who mcs your

0:17:22wedding and tells everybody when it's

0:17:24time to do what some people really like

0:17:26that but looking I'm sorry to interrupt

0:17:29now please

0:17:30I don't really go anywhere with this

0:17:31like some time just talk about sadness

0:17:32well but i need the bride very sad

0:17:35because because you played the fucking

0:17:36chicken dance and he did not even have a

0:17:39copy of modern English's mail with you

0:17:41which seems unconscionable to me

0:17:42well if you asked for specifically the

0:17:44soup yeah good I I guess have not been

0:17:49to a lot of weddings

0:17:50ok and that may seem that may seem

0:17:52strange right you and I'm not gonna take

0:17:55that seems very strange because you are

0:17:56an event

0:17:57and you get invited to a lot of things

0:17:59you go to a lot of things

0:18:00yeah it seems you would have been 240

0:18:04weddings

0:18:06yes ice I you know like I I can see

0:18:10where it might seem like that

0:18:11okay but I have performed as the

0:18:15officiant at but let's say a dozen

0:18:21wedding

0:18:22no kidding i have officiated a dozen

0:18:25weddings including a couple of weddings

0:18:29of people very close to me I the drummer

0:18:31of the long winters I efficient his

0:18:33wedding I officiated me or my nabil

0:18:36seals was officiated Nick Harmer's

0:18:39wedding the bass player of death kappa

0:18:40cute

0:18:41wow I appreciate i have officiated a lot

0:18:45of weddings but i have not been to many

0:18:49weddings where I wasn't officiated haha

0:18:53kinda night going to PTA meetings if I

0:18:55may say mmm right you don't you're

0:18:58experiencing this in a very different

0:18:59way than most people

0:19:01yeah right i mean and so so I've always

0:19:04felt a little bit of responsibility for

0:19:06the wedding going going well

0:19:09absolutely uh but that responsibility

0:19:12ends when they say i do and like I don't

0:19:21have any sense of what the wedding djs

0:19:24doing past that point but all of the

0:19:27weddings I've really all the ones I've

0:19:29ever been to have been indie-rock

0:19:32weddings where like same beam was the

0:19:40music so lets you know what sort of

0:19:43unconventional well yeah there's not if

0:19:46there's a DJ it's someone that we all

0:19:49know right like it's it's like Chris

0:19:52wall or something right

0:19:54and why would that be a great wedding DJ

0:19:56right yeah no chicken dance tho puku and

0:20:01also dated checks from david bowie's

0:20:03Berlin period it is like down waiting

0:20:08for little sound and vision ever

0:20:10buddy dance it's just music for airports

0:20:12and what ball inside 1 is over but he

0:20:16lets the needle run for a minute because

0:20:18this far as my hair

0:20:19bom bom bom-bom so I really gets rocking

0:20:25I have no idea at all what a

0:20:29conventional wedding is like and I'm

0:20:31kidding that's so interesting to me i

0:20:33hear people talk about them and I hear

0:20:35that you know and I hear about

0:20:37bridezillas and I hear that a that drunk

0:20:41rooms and I look at pictures sometimes

0:20:44online of wedding parties and I think

0:20:46why are they dressed like that and I

0:20:48hear that weddings are very expensive

0:20:50and that they're very stressful for

0:20:52people like I I know about weddings

0:20:57ok but either i don't get invited to

0:21:00them uh well conventional weddings or

0:21:07maybe I have been invited to them and I

0:21:09didn't open the evite because I don't

0:21:11open invites now that that's good policy

0:21:14um they were all together hitch up on

0:21:16facebook you know what I'm you know the

0:21:18thing is if you send me any bite who you

0:21:20don't have my phone number to text me

0:21:22and say why don't you open my evite

0:21:25there should be a name for this you

0:21:26don't know your name for this phenomenon

0:21:28right

0:21:30don't you think i mean like i have

0:21:32weddings but there should be a name for

0:21:33this phenomenon haha GG almost got me

0:21:35there if you really if you really knew

0:21:38me you would never have sent us it's

0:21:40like a canary trap

0:21:41yeah yeah yeahs an evite when an evite

0:21:44arrives in my inbox I i scan who it's

0:21:48from

0:21:49I make a mental note that person wants

0:21:51something once we'd either attend

0:21:54something or want something for me and

0:21:56then I await a second communication i

0:21:59see like a warning shot

0:22:01yeah that's right like alright alright

0:22:03Teddy I saw that you sent me bite

0:22:06let's let's see how serious you are

0:22:09about this i got a very I got a very

0:22:12terse email from uh from a bride not

0:22:16very long ago saying reply to my email

0:22:20and I said but I I can't find it

0:22:26oh and she said you bastard

0:22:30mmm it is hard enough to put automatic

0:22:33this is hard enough without forty

0:22:39percent of the people i know not sending

0:22:42the card back in a self-addressed stamp

0:22:45card right and then I send emails to

0:22:49that forty percent and fully twenty

0:22:51percent don't reply to the email oh my

0:22:53goodness and then I text that twenty

0:22:56percent and here you and I are standing

0:23:00standing on to like a two tiny little

0:23:06roadrunner plateaus in a bit but the

0:23:10skies turn red and the ground isn't

0:23:13inflamed and more quality in terms

0:23:14though it's more like she has to go

0:23:16door-to-door and like stand there while

0:23:18you're obviously she can see your shadow

0:23:20on the screen look you're obviously

0:23:20standing there like open the fucking

0:23:22door

0:23:23but why and now you're on the here

0:23:27it felt so bad for I felt badly because

0:23:32I understand in a lot of cases that i

0:23:36meant to know better

0:23:41Wow back tilt we don't know better

0:23:46all by way of saying that i have never

0:23:50been to a wedding in an event space

0:23:52where the where the bride didn't know

0:23:55the DJ already as a friend so I don't

0:23:59know what I don't know from even from

0:24:01Mac arena

0:24:02I don't know from I don't know from but

0:24:05I always know the parents of the of the

0:24:08people already like a so I can't believe

0:24:13that at my advanced age i'm sitting here

0:24:16thinking about it I can't think of a

0:24:19wedding I've been to in 25 years that

0:24:22didn't have some where I didn't either

0:24:27know every single person there or where

0:24:29it wasn't like being held

0:24:32a rowboat or something you know so this

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0:25:56rod on the line and all the great shows

0:25:59so so i'm i'm i'm so divorced from from

0:26:05what the from this whole not just the

0:26:07wedding culture but like the like what

0:26:09everyone must have gone everyone i know

0:26:11that's married that I don't know well

0:26:13enough to have been there but they must

0:26:14have gone through

0:26:15well it's it's butterly fraud because

0:26:17everything you're saying is true and as

0:26:21usual

0:26:22yeah sure and and and so one thing about

0:26:27this is everything you're describing is

0:26:28true and ever thus it's been I assume

0:26:31like it is costly it is complicated it's

0:26:33emotionally difficult because there's a

0:26:37certain kind of like

0:26:40class sorting you have to be the sorting

0:26:43hat for all these different people and

0:26:46decide all kinds of things like and you

0:26:48see this for example with table

0:26:49arrangements for you to start like who's

0:26:51at what table and how you're going to

0:26:52mix that up and there's this constant

0:26:54type but I guess what I think in general

0:26:56is constant tightrope walk on the one

0:26:58hand like you think is what you think

0:27:00those weddings are like is probably not

0:27:02far off what they're like

0:27:04because a lot of our sense of what we

0:27:06get about wedding what wedding should be

0:27:08is from TV's and movies and from other

0:27:10weddings we've been to so on the one

0:27:13hand there's this pressure to like put

0:27:15on this thing for your family and to

0:27:16extend your friends that was really in a

0:27:19lot of ways weddings are about everybody

0:27:21but you

0:27:22they're just like funerals yeah that's

0:27:24what they're not for the living

0:27:25that's that's a very very good point but

0:27:28it isn't someone is really about

0:27:29throwing a party that's going to be this

0:27:32satisfying our ritual for all the

0:27:36important people in your life you have

0:27:38to whether you want to or not you kind

0:27:40of have to think about stepping on toes

0:27:41like thinking about like okay is is

0:27:45divorced dad going to be here and

0:27:47divorce mom going to be there and is is

0:27:49she going to bring her boyfriend all

0:27:52that kind of the drinks he drinks right

0:27:53who drinks and then who's gonna walk her

0:27:56down the aisle and like she wants that

0:27:58to be her decision she might want her

0:28:00English professor to walk her down the

0:28:02aisle but she can because divorce dad

0:28:03will get mad and etc etc setup button so

0:28:06but i think there's this line try to

0:28:08walk like making it the big event for

0:28:10the couple making it the pretentious

0:28:13maybe even vaguely mumbo-jumbo religious

0:28:16event probably for some of your family

0:28:18but you're also constant tightrope is

0:28:20also weighing that against like oh but I

0:28:22don't want this to be a cliché I want

0:28:24it and once I want mine to be different

0:28:26so we're going to write our own vows and

0:28:28these days almost everybody raised their

0:28:29own valves or you know what I mean

0:28:30there's something about it you're going

0:28:32to do the flowers in this different way

0:28:33and it all at all costs money it all

0:28:35takes time and I'll takes resources so I

0:28:38mean it is it's is I mean like for

0:28:40example my niece for whom I was the

0:28:42efficient in the only wedding she could

0:28:44not have been more mellow about the

0:28:46whole thing to wear it was like I was

0:28:48the one emailing her like so is this ok

0:28:49it's alright just not be fine

0:28:51like make it a little bit like the

0:28:53spiritual or something

0:28:54and I was like okay a little bit of Book

0:28:56of Common Prayer funny anecdote where

0:28:59some nice shoes with all the Bible was

0:29:01written is that right yeah yeah we're

0:29:04sumbitches chill just don't where's more

0:29:06religious stuff they got animal stories

0:29:08they got fire

0:29:09that's right that's right there's some

0:29:11there's a lot of adventure hydrant magic

0:29:13john is like magic in the Bible they are

0:29:14gladiators gladiators get Wizards yeah

0:29:17you gotta get healings you get fish just

0:29:20throw a little bit more religious stuff

0:29:22in there and we're good

0:29:23you think that passes through like a

0:29:24second draft and gets passed around the

0:29:25writers room and like I like the loaves

0:29:28and fishes but I'm not really seeing the

0:29:30connection with God

0:29:31well yeah I think it does i think each

0:29:33one of the I think each one of the

0:29:34writers had a little bit of leeway also

0:29:37the Sadducees are coming across little

0:29:39jewy to me we turn that down a little

0:29:40bit but the thing is then you know then

0:29:43it goes to committee right and it's the

0:29:45council of nicea it takes it apart and

0:29:47then Augustine's got other things to say

0:29:49about you get the diet of worms it's and

0:29:51takes a long time to get to get a script

0:29:53into production

0:29:54yeah all my gosh and then you get stuck

0:29:56in turn around what is that right it's

0:29:58an epic picture you're going to have to

0:30:00get going to get a lot of hard to build

0:30:02a set of Cleopatra twice because the

0:30:05first one was they used metric instead

0:30:07of instant alert three or four minute

0:30:10youtube videos i'm not really sure but i

0:30:11think something happened with a

0:30:13elizabeth taylor got sick and then they

0:30:15had to like use it for something else

0:30:17and then rebuild the set and even though

0:30:18it was the top movie of that year it

0:30:21still didn't turn back turn back and

0:30:24that's something that's inside talk

0:30:26about some Hollywood we did not even

0:30:27gotten into the whole gift conundrum

0:30:30so like a lot of you with the wedding

0:30:32yes a lot of people our wedding you want

0:30:33to say hey don't give us gifts well you

0:30:35know what turns out that's not actually

0:30:37that cool thing to say because the thing

0:30:39is you're on who loves you really wants

0:30:42to not just give you something but wants

0:30:44to give you something memorable your I

0:30:46don't be unkind but you're kind of

0:30:47denying them the chance to do something

0:30:48that's important to them it's one of the

0:30:50many bullets you have to take when

0:30:52you're when you're getting married is up

0:30:54to give you LOL you have to register you

0:30:56don't have to but your entire family is

0:30:58going to be like no like I really want

0:31:00to get you something

0:31:01yeah and then you gotta figure out a

0:31:03range of prices you gotta put a big bang

0:31:05on there so if you do something to do

0:31:07we just want money towards our mortgage

0:31:08like that might not go over all that

0:31:10well someone like just pay for our

0:31:12honeymoon that some people are doing

0:31:14things like that you could pay off my

0:31:15student debt

0:31:16well yeah i wanna know yeah I could do

0:31:18that but like candy some spoons or

0:31:20something

0:31:21spoons yeah I do that I some i think

0:31:24somewhere with a long time ago I went to

0:31:27one of the early weddings when I you

0:31:30know but which I mean one of the first

0:31:32ones ever was Abraham and Sarah uh-huh

0:31:35uh-huh and uh and it was Abraham and

0:31:40Mary are you telling me refresh sorry

0:31:42top and they said we look for if that's

0:31:47funny

0:31:48ok your little one for that they they

0:31:50said we don't want gifts this when so

0:31:54different is that we don't want gifts

0:31:59and so I took that tube bikes i took

0:32:02that to be how weddings are and that I

0:32:05just have always extended that to

0:32:07everyone

0:32:07ok alright so because I was the first

0:32:11one I went to didn't want gifts

0:32:12yeah why would any subsequent when it's

0:32:14a little learning pattern and you

0:32:16internalize they see that's my that's my

0:32:17new pattern now I said it was supposedly

0:32:19you get a year to give a gift that's the

0:32:21conventional wisdom

0:32:22oh so you want when I'm the hook one

0:32:26wedding i went to i did give the bride

0:32:29and groom very fancy matching gift

0:32:32because I felt like I thought like the

0:32:37groom had done many great

0:32:39he he he had been a good friend over the

0:32:42years and that this was a group this was

0:32:44a a 0 a gift commensurate with the

0:32:48amount of love that I felt who and and

0:32:54the bride and groom received the gift

0:32:56very you know like graciously like oh

0:33:00thanks like that we receive a men's

0:33:03wallet

0:33:04we're here sort of like the way you if I

0:33:07had handed them a casserole and when

0:33:10they looked at the casserole it had

0:33:12pasta but also like eminem top stitched

0:33:19whatever like thanks like this is my

0:33:23family was on you but I add a ska added

0:33:27skills because it's because i love

0:33:29skittles and then those gifts which were

0:33:34you know which were pretty nice like it

0:33:37was basically like here is here is a

0:33:40taxidermy to ramshead there's only one

0:33:44place it can go over the mantel right

0:33:47you don't give you don't take a

0:33:48taxidermy man rams head and put it in

0:33:50the downstairs bathroom it comes it's

0:33:52like one ramshead in 10 assumptions

0:33:54yeah right well sure first of all that

0:33:56you want to ram set and second that

0:33:57you're gonna you're gonna put it up if

0:33:58you're gonna put it up right this whole

0:34:00chain of dependencies like that gives

0:34:01you if i give you a ram said you're

0:34:03gonna be moving some shit around

0:34:04yeah like Jason fan of the President of

0:34:06the United States of America hasn't a

0:34:08great number of platinum albums because

0:34:11the president the united states of

0:34:12america went platinum their their first

0:34:16album went platinum in like 50 countries

0:34:19or something I know they have let me

0:34:20know they're platinum records from

0:34:22Uzbekistan

0:34:23huh there were multiple multiple

0:34:25platinum records for them in australia

0:34:29new zealand canada and europe and

0:34:31america like and then known that and the

0:34:33the new style of that is instead of one

0:34:36big vinyl platinum record in a frame

0:34:39it's like a frame with five CDs I think

0:34:43that you just have to re-authenticate

0:34:44with the itunes store you download your

0:34:46record up you download your get your war

0:34:49you record but so Jason would Jason you

0:34:53know he's not somebody that's going to

0:34:54put a big platinum record on in his

0:34:56living he's got paintings

0:34:58yeah he's got a lot of fantastic art a

0:35:00great art collection he's not gonna he's

0:35:01not going to even just have one of them

0:35:03right like the best one I don't know

0:35:05what the best one was if you had a

0:35:07platinum record from Uzbekistan if I had

0:35:09one

0:35:09forget it front and center no question

0:35:12other and their be the spotlights on it

0:35:14but if you wanted to see any of the like

0:35:18Jason kept them in the downstairs

0:35:19bathroom right because he's like what am

0:35:22I gonna do with all these planet record

0:35:23and and they weren't all on display

0:35:25right it was just like sort of all the

0:35:27little put this here and then a couple

0:35:29of them in a box

0:35:30something there's you know we use one as

0:35:31a we put one on the on the coffee table

0:35:34and that's in the garage though you know

0:35:36the coffee table that's like stacked in

0:35:38the garage anyway that's not what you're

0:35:41going to do if somebody gives you a

0:35:42taxidermied ramshead it's not gonna fit

0:35:44in the downstairs bathroom there's one

0:35:45spot for and so I gave them the i gave

0:35:49the bride and groom this lovely gift and

0:35:50it just went away I never heard about it

0:35:53again still haven't about it don't know

0:35:56where it is it's in the world somewhere

0:35:57i'm assuming it's not didn't go

0:36:00immediately into the fire

0:36:02I it has intrinsic value not just not

0:36:06just like friend value it's like a thing

0:36:08you could pawn and it feels like the

0:36:10kind of gift that lots of families

0:36:13actually one of my favorite holiday

0:36:14traditions in some families is like the

0:36:15the weird gift that gets really gifted

0:36:18every year

0:36:19mm you run into this cheesecake are the

0:36:22three cubed fruit cake with fruit cake

0:36:24yeah we had an inflatable hammer in my

0:36:26family that went around every year but

0:36:28my friend Richard that a quasi-religious

0:36:30skipped the season is did you hide it

0:36:32under a bushel my friend Richard day I

0:36:38don't know how this thing started

0:36:39because some kind of ugly gift and

0:36:40basically when you're given that gift

0:36:42then you have to add something to it

0:36:45like hot glue something to it and then

0:36:46give it to somebody else the next year

0:36:48and so the weirdness accumulates every

0:36:50year and it gets weirder and stupider

0:36:51every year and I apparently it's a real

0:36:53joy of the bucket right family christmas

0:36:55is a great idea

0:36:57are you gonna see that I bet that you

0:36:58know what that might be in Martha

0:37:00Stewart or real simple at this point but

0:37:01I think that's I think that's a good

0:37:02idea as a as a gift idea what you think

0:37:06that the Rams Head could be something

0:37:07that you are you then maybe it's a

0:37:09wedding gift that you keep passing on

0:37:10other people

0:37:11it was like out of a kind of ad hoc

0:37:12monkey's paw that would have been fine

0:37:14and fun if they had done that

0:37:17yeah did you know I'm about it well

0:37:19that's the problem i don't know enough

0:37:21about weddings but I get a i get a sense

0:37:24that i get a sense from my other from

0:37:27all the many faux pas i have committed

0:37:30in so many other areas of human life

0:37:33yeah um that once you give someone a

0:37:36gift you do not it does not come with a

0:37:40guarantee

0:37:41like a reverse guarantee where I can

0:37:44call and find out what they did with it

0:37:45like not like saving a child it's not

0:37:49like you get a letter with a picture of

0:37:50the kid did you get fresh water too

0:37:54yeah well or I mean you could write they

0:37:56could every year say look here it is

0:37:58here's your gift we you know we take it

0:38:00every year

0:38:01ice fishing with us it's like the mascot

0:38:04of our ice fishing trip every year thank

0:38:06you so much

0:38:07if they don't do that if it's just like

0:38:10will never mention this gift again

0:38:13mhm um you can't call him five years

0:38:17later and say hey just wondering

0:38:21remember that super thoughtful gift I

0:38:24gave you guys just recently I mean if

0:38:31you're not using it

0:38:33yeah i mean shit dog get back a lot i

0:38:37think it i'll take it back

0:38:38uh you know I don't think you can do

0:38:40that i don't think that's I don't think

0:38:43that's kosher right so it's been a great

0:38:47lesson to me in letting go and letting

0:38:50god

0:38:51mm oh god that's easy as a chance for

0:38:53self-discovery

0:38:55yeah yeah where i'm like i still i mean

0:38:57i'm talking about it right now i still

0:38:59sit and go from wonder what I wonder if

0:39:04that's just in a box somewhere or ya did

0:39:07that get is that what did I get water

0:39:10damage in the flooded and they just had

0:39:13to toss it i want to say anything I I

0:39:17left and I left some stuff at a guy's

0:39:19house one time in the great city of

0:39:21Minneapolis and it wasn't it was stuff

0:39:24that was important to me including some

0:39:26journals some journals that I'd

0:39:29accidentally left when I decamped rather

0:39:33quickly and for a while we were in touch

0:39:38with one another and I was like God hey

0:39:41gotta get those journals from you

0:39:43hey buddy how's it going gotta get those

0:39:45journals from you and he's like yeah I

0:39:47yeah I got him right here

0:39:49you know I'm gonna I'm gonna send them

0:39:51on just got to get the

0:39:53just got to figure out how the post

0:39:55office works yeah I'm great well I can

0:39:57anything i can do just let me know just

0:40:00should want to get those back

0:40:02yep no problem and then one day he said

0:40:07uh and it wasn't like he wrote me it was

0:40:11that I wrote him and said so what about

0:40:13the journals let's revisit the journals

0:40:15and he said oh man there was a flood em

0:40:20and the journals got wet and they

0:40:26weren't really savable

0:40:27hmm so I tossed them and I was like what

0:40:29will whoa

0:40:31like I get the flood part you know

0:40:35floods happen but journals dry out too

0:40:42like you can dry a journal how and and

0:40:45and potentially like there are a lot of

0:40:47there's a lot of when you talk about

0:40:51journal

0:40:52yeah but you know i have somebody who's

0:40:53made a lot of lame excuses in life I can

0:40:56smell that that's that is a lame excuse

0:40:58he thought that was going to be his

0:40:59ticket to ride looking although

0:41:02everything flowed and so anyway well

0:41:03like yeah they're damaging flood end of

0:41:05conversation

0:41:06yeah and i was like i could if you'd

0:41:09sent them wet

0:41:10I could I could you know like bake them

0:41:13in the oven like it's not the it's not

0:41:17the paper i want it's the work mmm yeah

0:41:20world's my words gone gone forever you

0:41:25know many journals that lost over the

0:41:26years too many oh that you've openly and

0:41:29you've also had a lot of things stolen

0:41:31like you have lost the journal of with

0:41:33the stealing one time when you're in

0:41:34Europe have lost a few journals from

0:41:36stealing had a roommate one time a young

0:41:41woman who had a different idea of our

0:41:45roommate ship than I did him and when

0:41:48she moved out she moved out mad and took

0:41:52my journals what like didn't take the

0:41:57didn't take my art or whatever didn't

0:42:00take my guitar which would have been a

0:42:03great country song

0:42:05that you know if she'd taken my guitar

0:42:07that could be i'd still be dining out

0:42:09and take my art she didn't take my

0:42:12guitar took out the words that mean the

0:42:15world to me not page but the words on

0:42:17the page it

0:42:19yeah yeah took the journal support our

0:42:22troops

0:42:22how weird does she still have them what

0:42:26he's got into that self-same primary a

0:42:28high-school girlfriend whenever I was a

0:42:30shitheel and I was often a shitheel she

0:42:32would destroy one of my o2 sets one of

0:42:35your mixtapes no no usually one of my

0:42:37like Columbia House or self purchase

0:42:39cassettes but like that that's how I

0:42:41lost english settlement for example that

0:42:43double LP how did you destroy like pull

0:42:46the tape out orgy playgrounds you do I

0:42:49totally had it coming

0:42:50all but that's I mean that's like each

0:42:53pole must be even more gratifying to her

0:42:56that's not just like I'm throwing this

0:42:58in the garbage i'm not sure i learned my

0:42:59lesson as well as I should've just like

0:43:01every one of these polls just fucking

0:43:04Marlin locking haha ah that's all the

0:43:08world is football-shaped just for me to

0:43:11kick in space

0:43:12I can hear that i can see hear smell

0:43:14touch taste

0:43:16hey a funny story least some of my house

0:43:20and start using it

0:43:21this is happening on numerous occasions

0:43:23get back my furniture but Wright has an

0:43:25excellent name Richard left much was

0:43:27burning at the stuff at the place and

0:43:30learning about for exactly it's the

0:43:32stuff of bits you got the don't call it

0:43:34don't call its and its dust it's got the

0:43:36playa dust all over it

0:43:37so like I used one of his chairs from

0:43:40the burning man for a long time so that

0:43:42disappeared

0:43:43I've used I've used to i still using a

0:43:45sleeping bag when would you use good

0:43:47until it disappeared because that I left

0:43:49it's got a hog works but it's kind of a

0:43:51long strange story but I had a chair i

0:43:53left it this is this is not a Donovan

0:43:55song but I had a chair haha i left it

0:43:58somewhere

0:43:58it disappeared and i was saying my hair

0:44:01and then it came back another time in

0:44:03the chair was back but then I lost again

0:44:07and there are other agents that might be

0:44:09moving the chairs or there's so many

0:44:11things I try not to think about too much

0:44:13but it's a funny story about this thing

0:44:14right here

0:44:15my friend my friend Lance walked over to

0:44:20my house I don't know if we've been

0:44:23drinking to get there the night before

0:44:25but we were both really hungover this is

0:44:28probably late 1990s 19 anyone he walked

0:44:32over to my house and hang out and we

0:44:35both had some ibuprofen laying on the

0:44:36floor and he had a big cup of coffee cup

0:44:38of coffee and he left his coffee cup at

0:44:41my house and I am using it right the

0:44:44second we're using the coffee cup that

0:44:47Lance left at my house 25 years ago wow

0:44:52now I you know I nurse this i use this

0:44:56everyday this is my office coffee cup at

0:44:58this point it's also see photo it's a

0:45:00nice big cup it's it's like it's almost

0:45:02like a Stein and it's got lots of

0:45:04beautiful trees on it and it survived

0:45:06all those years is one of the few things

0:45:08in my life that hasn't broken I i love

0:45:12that story

0:45:13thank you but that's just like you you

0:45:16maintain that relationship by keeping

0:45:21that stuff in play

0:45:23yeah i have talked to many years but I

0:45:25still enjoy his cup he's a lot of this

0:45:26kind of thing we put it in a box and you

0:45:28say oh I've got to get this

0:45:30no it's not a collectible yeah yeah I

0:45:33don't know I've got to get this back to

0:45:34him

0:45:35oh no no he's never getting this back it

0:45:37would be kinda cool like especially like

0:45:38a no-go for babies on his deathbed his

0:45:40coffee cup back

0:45:41yeah yeah sure that's a little

0:45:42on-the-nose work that's where it gets

0:45:44married me up ringtone there it's not

0:45:47like you've ever left anything at my

0:45:48house unintentionally because it's a

0:45:51it's a very small number of times that

0:45:53you've never left your house that's

0:45:56that's true but but there have been a

0:45:58couple of times where you you loaned me

0:46:01some I've loan has lent or gifted you a

0:46:05strange array of things who somewhat

0:46:09recovered before but I really appreciate

0:46:11the fact that you you're so gracious at

0:46:14receiving things

0:46:16thank you know you really are I mean

0:46:18like when I go like oh here's this bag

0:46:20that was really expensive that I don't

0:46:22like and I lost the strap do you want it

0:46:24and you're like you really can capture

0:46:26i'll have it

0:46:28and then I found the strap and give you

0:46:29the strap you did and that bag is a

0:46:31great bag that man ack did i tell you

0:46:34that i tell you that i found the

0:46:37matching bag

0:46:39no way it's that was it red ox it's

0:46:41right off its a that was the bag on like

0:46:43those like learn how to pack one bag

0:46:45websites that was the one that was

0:46:46recommended and I hated it it was you

0:46:49had to carry on your shoulder and was

0:46:50like Lou big yeah yeah too big for not

0:46:53having wheels or something

0:46:54yeah if you're going to pack a small bag

0:46:55have the bag be small that's really you

0:46:57know what that's a great tip you know

0:46:59what I'm saying i do but so I was at a

0:47:02thrift store months later and i found

0:47:04the the identical red ox bag except blue

0:47:08wow that's so cool yeah and it was only

0:47:11a dollar that's a that's a costly bag

0:47:15yeah and I said Merlin told me this was

0:47:17a costly bag it's obviously a costly bag

0:47:20by the amount of expense that's evident

0:47:23in it in the quality of its manufacturer

0:47:26it seems like something that was made in

0:47:29America it feels great hearty it's a

0:47:32hardy bag it's got a nice got really

0:47:34nice zippers on it it's like a the beef

0:47:36stew of bags mike is more expensive than

0:47:37I remember

0:47:38and so I did you know what that's like a

0:47:40one of a kind of like a thick satchel em

0:47:43like they're like it's called a fix

0:47:45actual phone call the mini-boss on my

0:47:47god

0:47:48anyway i bought the second one and now i

0:47:50have a matching set on basically they're

0:47:53like I could turn them into motorcycle

0:47:55pans if I allowed myself to consider

0:48:00riding a motorcycle oh don't do that

0:48:02I've taken just recently I've taken

0:48:06riding motorcycles out of the can't wait

0:48:12to do it any day now file and put it

0:48:16into I wonder if I'm ever going to be

0:48:18able to revisit that I all really

0:48:21interesting

0:48:22yeah and I don't like having done it but

0:48:24I I just tell you I mean I know I kind

0:48:26of don't want to talk about it because I

0:48:27worry about you worried about your

0:48:28safety but I could I could really see

0:48:31you in the motorcycle i could see the

0:48:33three motorcycles

0:48:34oh no oh I know I and I you know I could

0:48:37see me getting three motorcycles too but

0:48:39i would need to live somewhere where

0:48:41didn't rain all the time all a top like

0:48:44the nation's likes steepest most

0:48:47difficult hills to traverse mhm like

0:48:50it's just this is a stupid town on a

0:48:52motorcycle in unless you have one of

0:48:54those motorcycles that's like died I

0:48:58motorcycle like if i lived in San Diego

0:49:01no never it's flat it's dry as flat as

0:49:04dry you just get on your motorcycle

0:49:05put-put-put you go from place to place

0:49:07if you like a Navy SEAL you're here at

0:49:10the Navy SEAL basis right out to the

0:49:11beach on your on your crotch rocket

0:49:13there you go that's exactly right but i

0:49:15have a have a friend who was a was a

0:49:20loss Angelino motorcyclist who just died

0:49:25just a time when a car he's been riding

0:49:30motorcycles his whole life he's

0:49:31obviously very good at riding motorcycle

0:49:34he's not he's not like didn't just hop

0:49:37on a motorcycle been writing an email

0:49:39way we're 25 years and just car mr. car

0:49:45I'm so sorry not a thing that he could

0:49:47have been anything about that's what i

0:49:50said if your motorcycle you just have to

0:49:52assume that nobody sees you you have to

0:49:55yeah it already is it was my daughter

0:49:57like I said when we look at whatever way

0:49:59across the street I would say to her you

0:50:00are a motorcycle

0:50:01the thing is nobody sees motorcycles

0:50:03because they're not the pattern matching

0:50:05for driving a car does not account for

0:50:07bicycles motorcycles anything it's not

0:50:09another car people just to ICU they

0:50:12don't see you and the thing is they

0:50:14don't even see other cars people are

0:50:16crashing into things all the time and if

0:50:18he had been in a car this person still

0:50:21might have crashed into him

0:50:22it's just that he wouldn't have been

0:50:24like dismembered you must have to become

0:50:28very you know phrase defensive driving

0:50:32you must have to become so aware of your

0:50:35surroundings you know when you get such

0:50:37v square inches of tire on the road at a

0:50:39given time and you've got so much

0:50:42potential power under you i mean you

0:50:44could I mean it's just you know any

0:50:46almost any motorcycle you could get on

0:50:48and go really fast really quickly if you

0:50:50bring a lot you know I'm

0:50:52I'm not criticizing and I have we have a

0:50:54friend out there who enjoys the show the

0:50:55most of guy and so I'm you know I'm not

0:50:58riding motorcycles but it must take a

0:51:00lot of self-restraint and a lot of

0:51:01self-awareness to be safe on a

0:51:03motorcycle

0:51:04this is my problem on a motorcycle

0:51:06because when i get on a motorcycle

0:51:08I'm like a super cautious respectful

0:51:11driver and then have to learn how to get

0:51:15how to do one you can do a motorcycle

0:51:17i'll have driven a motorcycle across

0:51:18America halfway across America until I

0:51:21crashed it

0:51:22ok ok let's not let's not focus on the

0:51:24crashing probably not liar

0:51:26let's talk about let's let's focus on

0:51:27that this all the safe driving ID right

0:51:30up until i graphed feels like an

0:51:34important metaphor for something that's

0:51:35been spent a considerable amount of time

0:51:37in the hospital and then went to jail

0:51:39let's not let's not go through that

0:51:42whole chain of events every story

0:51:44requires careful editing will head to

0:51:46think about the good safe time I spent

0:51:50on the moors but I you know I'm a Vespa

0:51:53rider all of us until very recently but

0:51:56the problem is when i get on a high pass

0:51:58a hypo motorcycle one that has this

0:52:00power that you're talking about working

0:52:01with a flick of a wrist you can go from

0:52:03zero to a thousand very very quickly

0:52:08surprisingly quickly like shocking to

0:52:11myself how quickly it happens I turn

0:52:15into that person where someone's in the

0:52:17left-turn lane and they're not they

0:52:21they're waiting for the traffic to come

0:52:23the other direction to make their turn

0:52:25someone's in the right lane with their

0:52:27blinker on waiting to turn right to do a

0:52:30right at the light but there's someone

0:52:32in the crosswalk walking and I thread

0:52:35the like three-and-a-half feet between

0:52:39the bumpers of the two cars at 45 miles

0:52:43an hour

0:52:43em and with the full knowledge that

0:52:47there's someone coming the opposite

0:52:49direction with their blinker on about to

0:52:51turn right in front of me but you see

0:52:54you see that opportunity and it just

0:52:55feels like that's John size hole too

0:52:57so here we go because I see that the

0:52:59people walking across the crosswalk that

0:53:00are blocking the guy that's about to

0:53:02turn in front of me are still blocking

0:53:03him enough that if

0:53:04everybody behaves perfectly rational e.m

0:53:08there's a slot here for me and what then

0:53:11I do it and end my blood goes cold

0:53:15I'm like you idiot that is the classics

0:53:18situation if one of those people is even

0:53:22slightly distracted if one of them

0:53:24behave even slightly abnormally which

0:53:27everyone does all the time then you are

0:53:30a casualty think why did they stop

0:53:32moving in the same trajectory that

0:53:34you're expecting or they make a little

0:53:36micro change and everything so it takes

0:53:39micro change because a lot of those are

0:53:42that slot isn't three feet yet the slot

0:53:46has not opened yet because everybody's

0:53:48still slightly in motion your schedule

0:53:50to see how your skating with the fuck is

0:53:51going to be that's right you see the

0:53:53opportunity right you're leading the

0:53:55you're here you're in a Sopwith Camel

0:53:58you are leading the fucker tribe wing

0:54:01and that was a new house brand new

0:54:04technology then we can end it away i

0:54:07feel like it still is a brand-new

0:54:08technology now but that is the thing

0:54:10that keep that that gets me back off the

0:54:12motorcycle I park the motorcycle and I

0:54:15say daddy's not old enough yet to drive

0:54:18a motorcycle even though he's 47 years

0:54:21old he does not have the good sense that

0:54:24God gave a chicken cannot cannot stand

0:54:28in a field and look up at the rain until

0:54:31he drowns checking the weather so I

0:54:37stopped so i stopped and then I spent

0:54:40but the thing is that doesn't stop me

0:54:41from Step sitting online and saying wow

0:54:43that looks cycle boy if I had that

0:54:46motorcycle then all of my problems would

0:54:49be solved I see the appeal because it's

0:54:51not so different from the appeal of a

0:54:52bicycle which is just this like this is

0:54:55this this little thing that you can get

0:54:57lots it or even a skateboard like

0:54:58there's little thing that can get me

0:54:59lots of places but in that case man

0:55:02that's that's part of the American dream

0:55:03to a motorcycle

0:55:04well yeah it's could I see what you're

0:55:07saying about the bicycle but in another

0:55:08way it's utterly unlike a bicycle

0:55:10because if you are invited to a wedding

0:55:12let's say you can I don't know much

0:55:14about weddings the ends into that me

0:55:16previously stipulated but i'm guessing

0:55:18if you're invited to a wedding and you

0:55:19ride up to the wedding on a bicycle

0:55:21shingling is in your gear and write with

0:55:27your little your little flippy hat and

0:55:29you're and you're clapping shoes and

0:55:31your you're like the wet pants or

0:55:35whatever

0:55:36Oh like but that's not how you roll or

0:55:39maybe like one of those rear view

0:55:40mirrors that's clipped to your glasses

0:55:41right that's not how you roll up to a

0:55:43wedding but if you roll up to a wedding

0:55:45on a like a superboss seventies style

0:55:49like chopped hardtail panhead

0:55:56mm well no I like those words you roll

0:56:00up to a wedding it on on one of those in

0:56:04a in a tuxedo with some like some bausch

0:56:10and lomb like commando sunglasses with

0:56:16your with your date on the back with

0:56:18your date riding on the back fender

0:56:20because you don't even have a passenger

0:56:21you paint quite a picture my friend

0:56:23you're you're not riding up to that

0:56:25wedding on a bicycle who you know now

0:56:27right you're right you're absolutely

0:56:28right you are riding up to that wedding

0:56:31on a carpet of dreams

0:56:32oh my goodness on a fucking on a rain on

0:56:35a loud rainbow his way you know like a

0:56:39rainbow with a bumper sticker that says

0:56:42a lot of pipe save lives and then the

0:56:45wedding belongs to you write some fried

0:56:47everything belongs to you can leave that

0:56:49wedding with whatever any problems in

0:56:51love but only this show by paul williams

0:56:53in this case

0:56:54yeah you show up he show up on your gas

0:56:57Molly with your with your heavy breaks

0:56:59and you're in your passion loam a

0:57:01costume

0:57:02yeah and then all of a sudden you're

0:57:04like Bugsy mala and the bride's thinking

0:57:07man I sit on that tailpipe

0:57:09hell yes LOL the tailpipe is wrapped in

0:57:12some is wrapped in like fabric tape

0:57:15that's your gift to her because boom

0:57:17pumping yeah right your gift to that

0:57:19wedding is that you came

0:57:21mmm

0:57:21didn't know so I I just feel like but I

0:57:26had to step I had to step back from that

0:57:28and then of course the other flip the

0:57:30other motorcycle is the is the tsunami

0:57:34motorcycle the apocalypse motorcycle

0:57:36while we're doing that well let's say

0:57:39you're living in long beach california

0:57:41or gearhart or again or long beach

0:57:45Washington every every state has a long

0:57:48beach always writes like a Springfield

0:57:50it's like sprinkles or at least every

0:57:53beach and on the west coast for every

0:57:55state in the west coast when there are

0:57:56only three they each have a long beach

0:57:58i'm guessing that's always be more

0:58:00simply should be five all of oregon is a

0:58:02long beach who is just one big language

0:58:05okay but i want to live I want to have a

0:58:10house in gearhart oregon or down by uh

0:58:17you know down by cannon beach want to

0:58:21have a house right because nice and I

0:58:24don't I'm I don't want to talk about it

0:58:25too much on this podcast because i don't

0:58:27want other people that go there no

0:58:29looky-loos gonna be saying well maybe I

0:58:31should get into that vertical yeah like

0:58:32let's get down to that lets go down to

0:58:34the oregon coast and get ourselves a

0:58:36house and for the ll the middle class

0:58:38white people come in really well that's

0:58:40already happened but now for Portland is

0:58:42a small town relative to other cities

0:58:45and the number of people that the number

0:58:48of people that Portland can the number

0:58:50of likes poor people that Portland can

0:58:53actually put out into the world to ruin

0:58:55everything

0:58:56it's like a lot fewer people like Boston

0:58:59every day is just sending out spores

0:59:02that are just ruining things for other

0:59:05people and this darkness race start with

0:59:07a larger number of people right that's

0:59:08right that's right there bear in the

0:59:10process right now of ruining western

0:59:13Massachusetts which was ruined by a

0:59:15previous generation in a different

0:59:17direction right like the 3d at the trip

0:59:20the the generation in western

0:59:22Massachusetts that ruined it by focusing

0:59:24on manufacturing and doing bad business

0:59:27and turning all those into abandoned

0:59:29factory towns they were bad

0:59:31did John Hodgman have any role in this

0:59:34well he's certainly a pioneer country of

0:59:37the of the next generation of runners

0:59:39who were the the early middle-aged you

0:59:43know like affluent middle-class people

0:59:46who are now going out to western

0:59:48Massachusetts and buying old manor

0:59:50houses and turning them into sex tens or

0:59:53something all the people all the people

0:59:54that used to be that used to be in

0:59:56Dinosaur Jr who are now living

0:59:56Dinosaur Jr who are now living

1:00:00and you know on on 50 acres gamer but i

1:00:05do not want i do not want any more

1:00:08people my age who currently live in

1:00:12portland or seattle to go out to a

1:00:16cannon beach and make it any harder to

1:00:18live there

1:00:19ok but if you do live there particularly

1:00:22if you live in in gear harder seaside or

1:00:24something like that and you hear those

1:00:26tsunami sirens which are indicating one

1:00:32of two things either there was a giant

1:00:34giant giant earthquake in japan and you

1:00:38have like my don't know how many hours

1:00:40but like a significant number of hours

1:00:42while that wave goes all the way across

1:00:45the ocean or there was just a earthquake

1:00:50on the Pacific plate right there

1:00:55portese and it's actually catch a break

1:00:57man

1:00:58newzealand others a big ones like an

1:01:00eight-point something new zealand

1:01:01alright because New Zealand is a young

1:01:03young country it's just that was a

1:01:05terrible earthquake nothing about me but

1:01:08like right slick with a day or two after

1:01:10we've flown out of this is terrible

1:01:12earthquake there so awful common

1:01:15wonderful country they don't deserve

1:01:16earthquakes so I some of our new zealand

1:01:19listeners who are among our best

1:01:21listeners i love that country so much

1:01:24they are right now dealing with the

1:01:26dealing with earthquake aftermath

1:01:28yeah but the nice thing about New

1:01:30Zealand of course is that if you leave

1:01:32the water if you leave the coast and

1:01:35head inland you go uphill pretty fast

1:01:37right like New Zealand's not a swampy

1:01:40country em right here you get the the

1:01:43secret to getting away from a a an ocean

1:01:46wave is to go up ocean wave right okay

1:01:49yeah right here comes ocean wave who

1:01:51head up finally most up place you can be

1:01:55and go there okay if you're at the

1:01:57nearest up place is like a tower made

1:02:00out of toothpicks that somebody made for

1:02:01a science fair that's not enough

1:02:04ok go if you can find a little up land

1:02:08go up land but if you're on the Oregon

1:02:10coast the up land is John

1:02:12just far enough away you can see it but

1:02:17you can't run to it so so so how do you

1:02:22how do you decide how to proceed in the

1:02:25event you wanted to get some kind of

1:02:28organ beachfront property how what's

1:02:32your thought process for deciding so

1:02:34here to do about that

1:02:35here's what I'm assuming yeah you're

1:02:38buying your organ coast property you

1:02:41already have a vintage four-by-four

1:02:44because that's one of the first things

1:02:46you should get em I vintage four-by-four

1:02:50that's like that's like a long time

1:02:53before you're thinking about a beach

1:02:54house but when you get the beach house

1:02:58you realize my vintage four-by-four is

1:03:01just exactly like everybody else's

1:03:04vintage four-by-four out here there's

1:03:06only one Road out of town and it's gonna

1:03:10be it's gonna be completely jammed with

1:03:13vintage four by fours and you're done

1:03:15you know if you like pile everybody in

1:03:18the vintage four-by-four and say we're

1:03:19headed to the hills

1:03:21no you died in a traffic jam so what you

1:03:25need is to stay is the greater

1:03:27four-by-four theory that's right exactly

1:03:30right

1:03:30what you need is two high-powered enduro

1:03:33motorcycles their gassed up and ready to

1:03:37go with Swift side you know that would

1:03:40like hardcase side bag and see your

1:03:43hacking system a little bit

1:03:44that's right who and you and whoever

1:03:47you're with

1:03:47whether it be your spouse or significant

1:03:50other you have both practiced this where

1:03:53you run out to your covered secret

1:03:57garage hop on motorcycles brain bomb and

1:04:01then you're off and you are using the

1:04:04roads only as much as net and needed but

1:04:08you have a route that you can do if the

1:04:12roads are all jammed full of you for her

1:04:14status is a bug out and bug let's bug

1:04:17out we've rehearsed this right now we

1:04:19don't have to we don't have to that we

1:04:21don't have enough gear to survive for 40

1:04:24days because a life I've further than

1:04:26you that's right out riding the tiger

1:04:28all we have to do is get all we have to

1:04:31do is close the distance between us and

1:04:33five miles from here like as fast as we

1:04:37can

1:04:38Oh on the assumption that everybody else

1:04:40is going to be trying to do that at the

1:04:41same time but they're not going to have

1:04:42these high-powered motorcycles who and

1:04:45then once you get there you watch the

1:04:46waves come in you feel

1:04:48yeah i mean obviously you're not

1:04:49gloating you feel bad for everyone sure

1:04:51and then the wave goes out east you

1:04:53don't go back immediately because

1:04:55there's going to be that next wave

1:04:56second wave like wave to point out

1:05:01mhm but then when the waves come down

1:05:03and everything in and everything goes

1:05:05back to just being like a big huge

1:05:08burning garbage heap who like you've got

1:05:10your motorcycle yet in the saddlebags

1:05:12you had presumably a key to your normal

1:05:14house and some rain jackets or whatever

1:05:17and you're you're like puce arrived so

1:05:19also you have to teach your kids to grab

1:05:21onto the back like little baby monkeys

1:05:23to grab onto the back of your jacket and

1:05:26hold on for dear life like everybody's

1:05:28gotta know what to do and these are not

1:05:30the kinds of decisions you you are

1:05:32wanted to be thinking about for the

1:05:34first time on bug-out day sure when you

1:05:36hear the tsunami silent sirens that is

1:05:38not the time to go to the motorcycle

1:05:40store and start shopping from mhm but

1:05:44these motorcycles are expensive and so

1:05:47it's it would be pretty weird to buy

1:05:50them and just keep them as tsunami

1:05:52motorcycles right you'd also want a ride

1:05:55or you're not Batman right right i mean

1:05:58i'm going to counseling specific

1:06:00motorcycles for spits specific cases

1:06:01smelling a cummerbund right right

1:06:04although all you need is one cumberbund

1:06:06yeah is that right yeah just get a black

1:06:09satin cumber bun that's right so you got

1:06:12to avoid the jokey like do you want a

1:06:14plat or something don't do don't ok

1:06:16don't if you're if you are in a wedding

1:06:18party and year and you have a ties and

1:06:22comer buns that match one another here

1:06:24you're already in the wrong wedding

1:06:27party you should not be friends with

1:06:29those people wish people could bring us

1:06:32into help with those kinds of things we

1:06:33get we can help you see now in my case

1:06:35I've been to a lot of weddings John's

1:06:36officiate a bunch of wedding present

1:06:38in too many I think we could bring a

1:06:39really fresh out of somebody's wedding

1:06:40and we could probably save you some

1:06:42money

1:06:43well yeah absolutely but I mean that's

1:06:46the craziest thing about weddings that I

1:06:48hear about which is we tried to do this

1:06:51a different way we try to have fun with

1:06:53our wedding and the further we got into

1:06:55having a wedding we realized that

1:06:56there's an industry of people who are

1:06:58trying to tell you can't have fun you

1:06:59just have to do it a certain way and

1:07:02that way cost it's like it's like my mom

1:07:05used to say about going to the hardware

1:07:06store down by the yacht club she said

1:07:10all the stuff at the hardware store

1:07:12that's in town advice one-quarter of

1:07:17this the price of the same exact thing

1:07:19at the hardware store by the by your

1:07:21sunscreen before you get to the resort

1:07:23because if you buy it in that little

1:07:26that little tumble down fish shack whole

1:07:28brother is what you say if you say hey

1:07:32we'd like to rent your event space

1:07:33because we are we want to have a big

1:07:36paintball expo we want to we want to

1:07:39fill this place with smoke machines and

1:07:40play laser tag yeah they're going to

1:07:42quote you a price

1:07:43mm oh it's $15 to run our place for a

1:07:46smoke machine laser tag do not mention

1:07:48you want to paintball wedding because

1:07:49that word order of magnitude

1:07:52that's right appear like we're gonna

1:07:53fill this place with smoke machines and

1:07:54have alleged attack wedding whoa hello

1:07:57linking seven grand but the problem is

1:08:02you can't fake them out because people

1:08:04smell weddings so you're like hey we're

1:08:06just having a big laser part but AG

1:08:07party here when I find it I trying to

1:08:10tell you're trying to convince your

1:08:11plumber the the problem is not a big

1:08:12deal before they come out and taking

1:08:14you're going to pay last because of that

1:08:15you know they do this everyday lives out

1:08:18with these these people pikers this

1:08:21isn't my first rodeo so and and it and

1:08:25every case they're like thursday we're

1:08:27gonna have value is this your first day

1:08:29like I would think that at your wedding

1:08:32knowing you

1:08:33yeah that you would have tried to have

1:08:35it catered by subway

1:08:37mm-hmm eyes at my thesis defense really

1:08:41baccalaureate yeah I had a we brought in

1:08:44a like 40 pieces of popeyes I'm gonna be

1:08:46honest with you some people were not

1:08:47there just to hear about cultural

1:08:48criticism TV I

1:08:49I think some people were therefore for a

1:08:51spicy breast so you made your thesis

1:08:54defense an event that people can people

1:08:57came and like cocktail party at then my

1:08:59school every baccalaureate defense is a

1:09:01public event anybody can come see

1:09:03icic boy there's some tough ones i want

1:09:06my name is easy the first thanksgiving i

1:09:10ever spent away from home

1:09:11I got a bucket of kentucky fried chicken

1:09:13and went to a pro wrestling match

1:09:15wow that was in America that was my

1:09:18thesis defense and that again

1:09:20minneapolis I don't know why I keep

1:09:22coming back to Minneapolis mm let's talk

1:09:25about the election you mean yeah sure i

1:09:29don't know maybe a couple people been

1:09:31fast-forwarding through like an hour in

1:09:33nine minutes to get to this listening to

1:09:37it on forex don't belittle election

1:09:42yeah that you know i just ate everybody

1:09:44I'm grateful you listen to the show but

1:09:46when you send your plot its for how much

1:09:47you enjoy the whole show when a third of

1:09:50the time that the show takes to listen

1:09:52to has passed

1:09:54given the fear people listen to show

1:09:56very quickly you and me did not i don't

1:09:59listen to anything found on weed almost

1:10:01a podcast but I always listen at you

1:10:03know a reasonable speed but some people

1:10:06they listen to show very quickly that's

1:10:07how they get through the backlog that's

1:10:08how to get through so many shows a

1:10:11really I I couldn't imagine listening to

1:10:15this program on fast speed because of

1:10:18how important some of the pregnant

1:10:21pauses are mm right like there are a lot

1:10:24of times when you let a beat go by and

1:10:28the beat is as eloquent as anything

1:10:30anything you say like beat the beat that

1:10:34tells us it beat ya and and those beats

1:10:38i think are lost

1:10:40if you have to change the tempo

1:10:42obviously that interview that hourglass

1:10:44did with Mike Daisey after it was

1:10:48revealed that Mikey's expose of the

1:10:51Apple factors in China was not you know

1:10:53one person copacetic back wise and

1:10:55there's one point in that interview when

1:10:58he asks mike daisey something and

1:11:02there's a positive you know you know how

1:11:03it is with these kinds of things it felt

1:11:05like it was two minutes long

1:11:06it was probably like eight seconds like

1:11:08if you didn't hear that pause you didn't

1:11:10really hear that interview sure you

1:11:11missed the whole thing

1:11:13it's like Sean always says you know

1:11:14sometimes the restaurant as important as

1:11:15the notes the risks right too many

1:11:18directions the exact but I don't know

1:11:19shawn says that by feeling we should

1:11:21give him some credit

1:11:22shawn says too many notes for the ear to

1:11:23hear em that's what shawn says nobody

1:11:27knows for the years is that Leopold

1:11:29what's-his-name huh

1:11:31Jeffrey Jeffrey Jones played him a place

1:11:34on Nelson they play Shawn Nelson in that

1:11:35movie with the ciliary yeah too many

1:11:38notes too many times for the UT i don't

1:11:40know I idea i don't listen to this

1:11:43program on anything other than the speed

1:11:44that we recorded because that's one of

1:11:47the tenants of it otherwise your band is

1:11:49David recent say you're banned from the

1:11:50show okay I don't I just I feel like I

1:11:53don't at this moment have a lot to say

1:11:57but I feel like our listeners probably

1:12:00are looking forward to what you have to

1:12:05say and I I don't know if you talked

1:12:06about Sudan I don't think he did

1:12:08did you add and also I mean Dan started

1:12:12the the podcast and it was like what the

1:12:15day after the election two days later

1:12:17huh

1:12:18and he was like boy you know I sure did

1:12:21have a lot of open this morning or

1:12:23whatever he was like let's talk about

1:12:24dinosaurs and we got about this far into

1:12:27the show an hour so when I was like ten

1:12:29are you sincerely going to try and not

1:12:31talk about the election you like 24

1:12:34hours after the election and he was like

1:12:36basically like what election

1:12:38I mean it went and it was and it seemed

1:12:40like that that's a good summer is almost

1:12:42every conversation then thats it was it

1:12:44was pretty brilliant though I like i sat

1:12:47on the toadstool of it was smoking my

1:12:50hookah and said wow like Nam estates and

1:12:56say yeah and we just kept talking about

1:12:59a herb heart pill boxes and and like

1:13:03finger feel like a finger time

1:13:06serenity now and and so what that did

1:13:10was it kind of put me in a put me in a

1:13:12place where i was like huh

1:13:14do I have a hot take that is worth a

1:13:17good goddamn and oh and that can't wait

1:13:21do I have a hot take the can't wait

1:13:24yeah because I for the last week i have

1:13:27logged onto the internet every day i

1:13:29have read up just threw a few things and

1:13:34have just not like slammed my computer

1:13:37shut just very slowly shut my computer

1:13:39and said this is not there

1:13:42this is not helping listening to people

1:13:46yell at each other is not helping

1:13:47listening to people blame each other is

1:13:49not helping and listening to people tell

1:13:53me and other people what is what reality

1:13:57is or what our obligation is ornate and

1:14:00how I should feel how you should feel

1:14:02how you shouldn't feel is a big thing

1:14:05how your how you're not entitled to feel

1:14:07how you're not entitled to feel as a

1:14:09thing how you need to be quiet or how

1:14:12you don't need to be quiet

1:14:14how you like you are absolutely monish

1:14:1622 never be quiet again or that your

1:14:19voice isn't needed right now because you

1:14:22are part of the problem and so you

1:14:23absolutely should shut up like every

1:14:26single fame has not helped and so I've

1:14:30been doing chores

1:14:32I've been eating cereal I've been taking

1:14:36care of my kid and and doing the things

1:14:41that are right in front of me with the

1:14:44kind of like with the quietude of

1:14:49knowing that I am NOT like my online

1:14:53participation is not needed right and

1:14:57and nothing's going to change as a

1:15:01result of it right now i will rejoin

1:15:04this conversation in a little bit I it's

1:15:08not that I have been thinking about it

1:15:09but like the idea I didn't end it

1:15:13immediately afterwards I had so many hot

1:15:17takes my hand hot takes it was hot takes

1:15:20all the way down and I had lectures I

1:15:24was going to give about it and I have

1:15:26you know like I i was making powerpoints

1:15:28in my mind

1:15:30am I don't know how to make a powerpoint

1:15:31yeah you don't need to know in your mind

1:15:33you can always do a tutorial later

1:15:35uh-huh right i could I just go on

1:15:38youtube and learn to play the harmonica

1:15:40slide but I but you know maybe it was

1:15:45the maybe it was like the Buddha that

1:15:50like it was Dan Buddha German who maybe

1:15:56realize that looks like it is here that

1:15:58to say what electric what was there an

1:16:02election was like yeah right right yeah

1:16:07I know just done i did a we were talking

1:16:12about whether we should do a show last

1:16:14week and asked if you wanted to and then

1:16:16in that interregnum i had scheduled the

1:16:18show with my friend John Gruber so I've

1:16:21already talked for two hours about how i

1:16:22feel about what happened with feelings

1:16:25and and people like the right people

1:16:28were were grateful on

1:16:31yes I got teary from what some people

1:16:33said it was like you know yeah whatever

1:16:35like a I'm another white guy but like in

1:16:38her this is her my heart a lot but I so

1:16:42anyway I just want to say like

1:16:43that'sthat's a place where i have

1:16:44discussed that it's not so much to

1:16:45encourage you to listen but to like that

1:16:47gave me a little bit of like getting

1:16:50through the first part which is just the

1:16:51feelings and I i would like to say I'm

1:16:56further along than that of six days

1:16:58later and I'm still have so many

1:17:01conflicting things going on right now

1:17:02one of those conflicting things is I

1:17:04still haven't gotten past the feelings

1:17:06part and I and so i'm not i don't i'm

1:17:10not really not trying to criticize

1:17:11anybody's strong feelings that aren't

1:17:14mine but like there's this part of me

1:17:17that says I need to sit with this for a

1:17:19little while and I understand the app I

1:17:24feel like I absolutely understand like

1:17:26no it's time to get to work i do

1:17:28understand that and I respect that and

1:17:30like I subscribe to new york times

1:17:31finally yesterday like I know it's not a

1:17:33lot but I'm what I'm trying to say is

1:17:34like him for myself like maybe maybe

1:17:36this is something we should take a

1:17:37little bit more time with

1:17:39because i don't think we need more hot

1:17:41takes right now and I I help people take

1:17:46this in the spirit its intended but like

1:17:48there is this impulse in me that I can

1:17:52locate as feeling very similar to an

1:17:54impulse that I would feel at a time when

1:17:57that say i was in college and got very

1:17:59upset about something happening

1:18:01happening in the community or politics

1:18:02and I'm trying to trying to set that

1:18:07feeling aside and leave it right

1:18:09I'm trying to put that aside for just a

1:18:10little while until i still figure out a

1:18:13little bit more about the feelings part

1:18:14which I know is a very privileged place

1:18:16to be but like I don't know what i could

1:18:19say right now that would make a huge

1:18:22difference

1:18:24I'm not ready to try and say anything

1:18:26intelligent yet no and I'm not saying

1:18:29you shouldn't but like for myself it's

1:18:31just I'm not ready for the fray yet and

1:18:34I that probably makes me less of a

1:18:38citizen I might look back at this this

1:18:41week and say well I wonder how much

1:18:43opportunity lost by not jumping onto

1:18:45something I I feel like I'm just not

1:18:47ready to do that yet I feel like the

1:18:49answer is none like a nun and and partly

1:18:53for myself it is that like I have very

1:18:57strong feelings obviously like as it was

1:19:00unfolding I was I had no idea that I

1:19:04would feel that strongly but i was wrong

1:19:09i was i was profoundly wrong about a lot

1:19:13of things might take leading up to it

1:19:16was wrong

1:19:18um and and a lot of people were wrong

1:19:25most people were wrong no that's one of

1:19:29those rare occasions where we see

1:19:31everybody was wrong

1:19:32we don't mean everybody was wrong on one

1:19:34quote unquote side there's almost nobody

1:19:36that was right

1:19:37nobody was right nobody and you know it

1:19:39for example like you know people are

1:19:40really hard on 538 right now but one

1:19:42thing that I think is interesting about

1:19:43what 538 says they're trying to show you

1:19:45first of all these are not our polls

1:19:47these other people's polls but I'm

1:19:48really interesting that idea of like

1:19:50here's the polls and here's how

1:19:52all confident we are in the polls it's

1:19:54not just that we saw and so stepping

1:19:56away from that for a minute

1:19:58it's that we saw the world in this

1:19:59certain way and 24 myself to a like

1:20:02fairly high 80 percent-plus level of

1:20:04certainty that I was seeing something

1:20:05that was true or feeling something that

1:20:07was true right it's not part of it right

1:20:08right there was not well I was not I was

1:20:10not actually fought with self-doubt

1:20:11until somewhere around 5 30 or six on

1:20:14Tuesday

1:20:15yeah i mean i was doing a show that

1:20:16night and we were backstage did you get

1:20:19through with the show with the backstage

1:20:21like eating the little petty fours

1:20:24yeah and tuning our guitars and

1:20:26imagining that we were about to do a

1:20:29show that was full of triumph and like

1:20:31our first female president and

1:20:34immediately before we walked on stage we

1:20:36all like looked at our phones to see

1:20:38what was going on and 538 right in front

1:20:41of our eyes went from eighty-five

1:20:43percent certainty that that mrs. Clinton

1:20:47would be elected secretary clinton to

1:20:50sixty-five percent to 51-percent and we

1:20:54were like say what

1:20:55and then we took the stage and onstage

1:20:59all of us were like stunned

1:21:02deer-in-the-headlights level of stunned

1:21:04and I was hosting the show where three

1:21:07of us sitting on stage with guitars and

1:21:09then there was a poet and then a woman

1:21:12painting while we were doing the show it

1:21:14was it was this kind of show and I said

1:21:17to the audience look uh things are not

1:21:20things are changing very rapidly i would

1:21:22like to say everyone turned their phone

1:21:24off and let's just be in the room

1:21:25together for two and a half hours

1:21:27listening to music and and being part of

1:21:30art and I everybody agreed and we just

1:21:35sat in like it didn't banish the

1:21:39feelings but I had the I and my at and

1:21:42the audience and my fellow musicians had

1:21:45two more hours of just listening to one

1:21:48another play and enjoying like

1:21:50friendship in and guitar did you get

1:21:54that standing next to the band playing

1:21:56nearer my God to thee as the up but but

1:22:01then when we rejoined the world it like

1:22:04fait accompli right

1:22:05it happened and we didn't have to sit

1:22:07there for that two-and-a-half hours like

1:22:09watching everything crumble we just were

1:22:13like playing our guitars and then we

1:22:15came back we landed on the earth again

1:22:16we're like well guess what

1:22:19like everything is different but here's

1:22:22the here's my feeling right is that I

1:22:24was wrong

1:22:25everybody was wrong and not just wrong

1:22:29about what you know not not just wrong

1:22:31by 10 degrees but like wrong about what

1:22:35is going on and immediately what I saw

1:22:41was all these people that were wrong

1:22:44thinking that they're wrongness was an

1:22:47anomaly and now they were right again

1:22:49about everything they could begin

1:22:51immediately to say what needed to be

1:22:53done to say what other people needed to

1:22:56do to start talking about what needed to

1:23:01be done immediately that and if we

1:23:02didn't do it we were on the wrong side

1:23:04of history talking about who was who

1:23:07how how whether you should wear a safety

1:23:11pin or shouldn't whether you should

1:23:13organize or not whether you should be in

1:23:16the streets or not whether everybody was

1:23:18right again instantly and for me I said

1:23:24my reaction was I was fucking wrong and

1:23:29I do not presume to be immediately write

1:23:31about any maybe we need to just be wrong

1:23:34for a little while like sit on your

1:23:36fucking wrong and think about how wrong

1:23:40you were and how that wrongness

1:23:43reverberates through your other certain

1:23:46certitudes and that isn't I mean that is

1:23:50healthy and that is that will affect

1:23:54what you do next which hopefully is is

1:23:59different

1:24:00you don't just come back into a thing

1:24:02and say well I was right about

1:24:03everything and this l and this election

1:24:07which I was which it turns out I was

1:24:09completely wrong about just confirms how

1:24:12right I was

1:24:12which is a which is a fallacy I've seen

1:24:18repeated a thousand times like right up

1:24:21until this election i was saying all

1:24:22these things that I was confident I was

1:24:23right in this happened negating

1:24:26everything and it proves how right I was

1:24:28little and it turned out differently in

1:24:30the other side did that same thing you

1:24:31tear them apart for not being realistic

1:24:33at well as everything how could you not

1:24:35accept these results and then this

1:24:37business about like do you have you

1:24:39cannot have any sympathy or consider the

1:24:43other side because that empowers them or

1:24:47that normalizes them and you know the

1:24:50fact is it just got normalized like I'm

1:24:53not normalizing them by saying huh

1:24:58whoa by not immediately you know by not

1:25:03going at them with the same language we

1:25:06were going at them before that produced

1:25:08the results that we didn't anticipate

1:25:11right i mean we did not buy by virtue of

1:25:16our fury at the at the racism sexism and

1:25:21in like just I mean racism sexism even

1:25:24you even those things are like subsumed

1:25:28beneath just the pure insanity of

1:25:30selecting someone who has never for a

1:25:32minute done any government work that's

1:25:37that you know that's just like what and

1:25:41you know form for my part

1:25:46my first thought was we have on both

1:25:51sides of the aisle become a country that

1:25:55is convinced that our problem is elites

1:26:00both the both the people on the

1:26:05conservative side and on the liberal

1:26:07side are convinced that it is elites who

1:26:11are the problem and the solution is a

1:26:16populism a populist movement where we

1:26:20put Outsiders in and the further left

1:26:24you go the more

1:26:25that conviction is true and the further

1:26:27right you go the more that condition is

1:26:28true that we are in combat culturally

1:26:32with these elites who are keeping us out

1:26:34and on the Left we think it is elites

1:26:37that are / dinner that are promulgating

1:26:41a white supremacy and a patriarchy and

1:26:45we need to roust those elites and put

1:26:47neophytes in those positions because

1:26:51people with no experience but with

1:26:54conviction are better in those jobs then

1:26:58people who have dedicated their lives to

1:27:00administration to government to

1:27:03thoughtful action to moderate behavior

1:27:06we need them out and related to people

1:27:09who've done the job but have also had to

1:27:12deal with the harsh realities of having

1:27:16to deal with people who don't agree with

1:27:19you that maybe have more power than you

1:27:20but have to find a way to compromise

1:27:23happening and negotiate and and

1:27:27facilitate a best practice even if it

1:27:31even if it isn't the most beautiful or

1:27:34the most radical and on the right of

1:27:37this equation there are people who feel

1:27:39like the elites are perpetuating a

1:27:43snobby East Coast dominated prissy

1:27:52pretentious lecturing hectoring form of

1:27:58social engineering and they need to

1:28:00eliminate the elites in order that real

1:28:04people who have real concerns who are

1:28:07real and authentic who have who haven't

1:28:10like in Donald Trump's case even read a

1:28:14book that they are better suited to this

1:28:18like to this job which is a job when i

1:28:22ran for office Iran thinking this very

1:28:27thing that the people in that were

1:28:30running downtown Seattle the city

1:28:32council was full of insiders

1:28:36who you know who couldn't see beyond the

1:28:39end of their knows who were compromised

1:28:41by their affiliations who were in bed

1:28:44with business and what they needed in

1:28:47there with some fresh blood in the form

1:28:49of me a like a freewheeling fun-lovin

1:28:53smart guy who who saw the problems in

1:28:57the city clear-eyed and was gonna roll

1:29:00in there and and just shake everything

1:29:04up and be somebody that sat on the City

1:29:07Council with a little bit of an ironic

1:29:09smirk and when problems came across the

1:29:12desk i would just know what to do and I

1:29:15wouldn't have I wouldn't be in bed with

1:29:17anybody and as I started to run and said

1:29:22well the first thing we need to do is

1:29:24build a unified transit system and the

1:29:27first person I met you know who was a 21

1:29:30year old intern for somebody said well I

1:29:33mean you never be able to pay for that

1:29:35because the state legislature passed a

1:29:38law 15 years ago that limited the amount

1:29:42limited the ability of the CM city of

1:29:45seattle to raise money via taxation and

1:29:51so the state government would never pay

1:29:53for this transit program and the City of

1:29:55Seattle cannot does not have the taxing

1:29:57authority to pay for it either so what's

1:29:59your next plan and I was like whoa

1:30:03because i didn't know that the state

1:30:06legislature had passed this law and

1:30:09having passed it will see the city of

1:30:11seattle was bound by it and the

1:30:14legislature was not going to overturn it

1:30:16because because six-tenths of the

1:30:20legislature is from moses lake and

1:30:24Spokane and enumclaw and places where

1:30:27they don't share Seattle values so as I

1:30:31went through the process of running for

1:30:32office every step along the way I

1:30:35realized this is people's profession and

1:30:39they've spent their whole career

1:30:41it is isn't it I mean it's a craft it's

1:30:44a it's absolutely a craft and when

1:30:46somebody comes to the City Council and

1:30:48they say

1:30:49I want to raise the height limits in

1:30:52this zip code so that i can build an 80

1:30:55story apartment tower that where the you

1:30:59know the cheapest department is a

1:31:01million-five there are 40 other groups

1:31:08that feel like their stakeholders in

1:31:10that choice and each one of them has a

1:31:16whole camp train of history and of a

1:31:20history with the city their own

1:31:23constituency their own like logical

1:31:26worldview they're all they're all all

1:31:31those worldviews are logical from within

1:31:33and all 40 of those groups i'm not

1:31:35talking about 40 people who have steaks

1:31:37but 40 groups of people that have steaks

1:31:40in that decision who want to talk to the

1:31:42City Council and tell them and explain

1:31:45their patiently explained and angrily

1:31:47explain their consistent worldview that

1:31:51from within consumes them they

1:31:53absolutely no they're right at that

1:31:56apartment building is going to create

1:31:58more homelessness for that apartment

1:31:59building is going to raise the tax base

1:32:01which will enable us to help the

1:32:03homeless or that apartment building is

1:32:06going to you know the fact that it needs

1:32:08to be union or the fact that it doesn't

1:32:10need to be union at on ad infinitum

1:32:14and so to sit on that bench and do that

1:32:17work well is a lifetime job or or a job

1:32:24that that you there you do need

1:32:26preparation to do you didn't do need to

1:32:29have a certain personality and you and

1:32:33it isn't just a matter of kicking your

1:32:35feet up on the desk and saying you know

1:32:36what sounds good to me do it don't do it

1:32:40seems like you could look to somebody

1:32:42like let's say a veteran journalist who

1:32:46has been walking through the corridors

1:32:49of power for years and that person my

1:32:52roll their eyes at someone who says i'm

1:32:54going to be an outsider and the fact

1:32:55that I don't know very much and don't

1:32:57have a plan helps me to not cloud my

1:33:00ideological vision for what needs two

1:33:02because reasons like somebody's in that

1:33:05position as let me again like a someone

1:33:07is a very very good journalist or

1:33:08scholar knows all that stuff but but

1:33:12even they have never done the job and

1:33:15when you get in and do the job you not

1:33:18only know or it's not only exposed to

1:33:21and know all of that complexity but then

1:33:23you have all the extra added complexity

1:33:25like I'm kind of just repeating what

1:33:27you're saying but like that's that's the

1:33:28part that I that I always think about

1:33:29like I mean I could have the best idea

1:33:31in the world for how the plumbing in my

1:33:33house should work but being an outsider

1:33:35when it comes to plumbing does not make

1:33:37me better at it than someone who's done

1:33:38it for 20 years but for somebody who

1:33:40understands the actual like you know you

1:33:42think about what something is really an

1:33:43expert somebody it's not just somebody

1:33:45who knows how to do it

1:33:46it's not just somebody has done

1:33:47repeatedly it's not just somebody who's

1:33:49done enough to be good at it but it's

1:33:51somebody who sees things you can't see

1:33:55and the can't even really be explained

1:33:57to you and that comes across as a

1:33:59certain kind of cynicism or hollowness

1:34:02that yet no you're just a pure

1:34:04politician now but it's also that they

1:34:06understand how many people in a position

1:34:08of power are going to be making calls

1:34:10when you decide to change the height

1:34:11limit you haven't you haven't thought

1:34:13about that because you have this pure

1:34:15vision of how that should be but

1:34:16somebody was done that job that that

1:34:18seemingly callow person who has that job

1:34:20has done nothing but deal with that the

1:34:22entire time they have that job until it

1:34:24becomes almost a primary part is

1:34:26learning how to deal with what everybody

1:34:27wants and that looks like Alice yes

1:34:30exactly but but what so so you know if

1:34:36there is a if I did have a hot take

1:34:38personally internally it was that

1:34:44watching you know watching the people

1:34:49that I follow the people that I agree

1:34:52with immediately frame what happened in

1:35:01a way in a self-serving way so that what

1:35:05they could maintain was their conviction

1:35:07that what we needed to do was get the

1:35:08elites out

1:35:10and now there was a new set of elites a

1:35:13new set of people that work that were

1:35:16supporting and confirming their belief

1:35:20that this elite structure was what was

1:35:24in our way and what we needed to do was

1:35:27get the people in there even though the

1:35:29person that just was elected was elected

1:35:34precisely because his argument was we

1:35:36needed to get the elites out and so I

1:35:41you know I watched my whole world and

1:35:44can continue to watch it on Twitter and

1:35:49the thing is we are fighting against

1:35:51racism we are fighting against sexism

1:35:53and these are noble goals and this is a

1:35:56lifetime fight for all of us and will be

1:35:58a lifetime fight for our children like

1:36:01this is our side of the mission of

1:36:04creating the world we want to see but

1:36:07that doesn't that the nobility of that

1:36:10project does not necessarily validate

1:36:14all of our processes it doesn't reflect

1:36:16back and set and then give us the the

1:36:20right to say that our methods are

1:36:22correct because our goals are noble and

1:36:27I am increasingly inclined to say people

1:36:32who have devoted their lives to

1:36:34government are not the enemy people who

1:36:38have people who work on behalf of others

1:36:42even if we don't agree with them or we

1:36:45in our conspiratorial sense that the

1:36:47world is pitted against us even if all

1:36:51evidence points to the fact that that

1:36:54person has actually is full of

1:36:57self-sacrifice and has devoted their

1:36:59lives to helping others which in my

1:37:03opinion Hillary Clinton has done right

1:37:06like she has not enriched herself she's

1:37:10not poor her husband has made a lot of

1:37:13money she gets paid for speeches I wish

1:37:15to fucking god i got paid for speeches

1:37:17of the way that she she does that's not

1:37:21mean

1:37:23there are people right now my age who

1:37:26are worth hundreds and hundreds of

1:37:27millions of dollars for doing nothing

1:37:29for sitting and transferring money from

1:37:32one bank to another their whole careers

1:37:34to say that Hillary Clinton is corrupt

1:37:36is just like you don't understand what a

1:37:38lifetime of service looks like but there

1:37:41are there are so many people out there

1:37:44whose business is government and whose

1:37:46work is in the world of of like this is

1:37:55the social sciences who work at the

1:37:57State Department their whole lives who

1:37:59work in the diplomatic corps and anyone

1:38:04on either side of the aisle is going to

1:38:06point to these people and say they are

1:38:07elites that are keeping that are that

1:38:10that are keeping this system that we

1:38:12disagree with in in in power and I look

1:38:16at them now and I say thank God for you

1:38:18and I do not want the people i do not

1:38:25want i do not believe that the people

1:38:27marching in the street no better

1:38:29necessarily i don't think that they are

1:38:33the people i want to hold elective

1:38:37office

1:38:38I don't want a revolution I want a slow

1:38:43methodical march in the hands of people

1:38:47of people who have made the study of

1:38:49this their life's work and I believe

1:38:53that that will result in justice because

1:38:58i think justice is inevitable

1:39:01like I think equality and this is the

1:39:04slow march of history argument that

1:39:06makes people really mad who think that

1:39:09they can yell and make history much

1:39:13faster and we and there's plenty of it

1:39:16plenty of examples of like move it

1:39:18things do move faster but things have

1:39:20just moved back you know this has been a

1:39:22this has been a big correction a bad

1:39:24back

1:39:25correction and all it does is confirmed

1:39:28to me that like you make a big stabbed

1:39:30things change and then you know and then

1:39:34the people that wanted a different way

1:39:36push back and but the margin history is

1:39:39what I'm what I count on and i hope that

1:39:44this era where this jacksonian sense

1:39:49that that like people throw down there

1:39:55ho and march on washington with their

1:40:00you know with their bag of corn meal

1:40:02over their shoulder and say I can do

1:40:04government better you know they can't we

1:40:12can't we

1:40:15I believe in like I don't believe in the

1:40:17in the electoral college anymore but you

1:40:24know I believe in elected

1:40:28representatives and we've just elected

1:40:32up a a big pile of garbage to that role

1:40:36and that is giving me pause and that's

1:40:40making me feel like i don't i don't know

1:40:44i don't I i do know that one that

1:40:49equality is that we have more quality

1:40:51today than we've ever had and that the

1:40:54current administration can't take that

1:40:56away and things are ugly on the street

1:40:58right now but you know that but I'm not

1:41:03redoubling my effort to do what I what I

1:41:08was doing a month ago

1:41:09I'm

1:41:12eating cereal doing chores