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0:00:20hello hi John oh hi Merlin that's going
0:00:23good you sounded really enthused oh not
0:00:29so enthused oh no this is a highlight of
0:00:32my week
0:00:33oh yeah I know just you know and you
0:00:35know how it is
0:00:36yeah sometimes a week well just
0:00:38sometimes the 16 months right now it
0:00:41just was just unfold like like one of
0:00:44those looking to origami life
0:00:46yeah like an advent calendar where every
0:00:49door is just a just to fuck you
0:00:52it didn't okay different kind of animal
0:00:55poop happy holidays coming up to seven
0:00:58that that's Paul Williams with a big
0:01:01middle finger morning
0:01:04yeah so you sound good about that
0:01:10election
0:01:11oh yeah Big Sucker things are fine over
0:01:23here okay yeah it's been raining a while
0:01:26so on them on call this week 40 no jury
0:01:31duty and it's a whole court case it's oh
0:01:33no what is why does that happen to you I
0:01:36haven't been called for jury duty in 24
0:01:38um jury crack I never don't get called I
0:01:42don't understand it
0:01:43I mean I'm know I'm not good at
0:01:44calculating time and stuff but like it
0:01:48feels like it's as soon as i'm eligible
0:01:50it it comes up and i usually get called
0:01:52that's about the last one I dodged a
0:01:54bullet on the last one
0:01:55yeah i think so but remind that's quick
0:01:58i mean basically it was really weird
0:01:59because I've made it through like
0:02:01thursday if you make it past wednesday
0:02:03it's usually like I had their good i can
0:02:04me and then I called the robot said your
0:02:07journey group
0:02:09well appear at superior court 1 p.m.
0:02:12thursday and it's like what
0:02:13who gets called at one p.m. on a
0:02:15thursday yyyy does your robocall sound
0:02:18like James Urbaniak
0:02:21I like that guy i met him yeah yeah you
0:02:27did meet him
0:02:27I think somebody took a photo together
0:02:29yeah you met him in a hotel room in the
0:02:31hotel lobby of the hotel didn't have
0:02:33television television
0:02:34oh my god I was so fucking mad about
0:02:36that haha i took a photo and send it to
0:02:38my daughters like this is where the TV
0:02:39would be this is a normal hotel room it
0:02:42was like a Gitmo sell you have you had a
0:02:44nice when they put you up in the Rain
0:02:45Man sweet but I was down with the proles
0:02:47yeah I otherwise with no TV in my room
0:02:50either instead there was just like there
0:02:52was a soap carving kit and like five
0:02:55curated vinyl albums pictures of bird
0:02:58houses are that mine had a bed which is
0:03:00an ok bed in middle of this room was a
0:03:03small room but I mean it was really
0:03:05funny it was like there were worried I
0:03:07was going to harm myself there were two
0:03:09little tables into little lamps and a
0:03:12closet
0:03:13no no I'm sorry there wasn't a closet
0:03:15there was a shelf it was like he was
0:03:17like some kind of like I don't know what
0:03:19I imagined like if you went to like the
0:03:20nice juvenile detention unit you
0:03:24remember that was the hotel I still kick
0:03:26myself I opened the door and there the
0:03:30room had been cleaned and was in in
0:03:32perfect order except there was a
0:03:33walkie-talkie lying in the islands right
0:03:36and I was like it's the beginning of an
0:03:38adventure it's a call to adventure
0:03:40there's no question about it yeah but I
0:03:42picked it up and you know looked at it
0:03:44and you know turned on nothing nothing
0:03:46on that channel and I took it down the
0:03:48front desk
0:03:48I think I told the story but basically i
0:03:50should we showed up and did the very
0:03:52short version is that a bailiff you know
0:03:55it looks which basically it's it's like
0:03:57a it's like the parks department act he
0:03:59wants in a guy in uniform and goes
0:04:01alright this will now serve as the jury
0:04:03assembly room it's what it was like 230
0:04:05there's like a hundred 50 to 250 people
0:04:09in this room and I was like oh my god is
0:04:10this was so this was the bit you know
0:04:12there's the room you go and sit in while
0:04:14you wait to get called and then you go
0:04:15usually to like a court room to be you
0:04:18know what dear whatever our stuff they
0:04:20do in this case the entire rooms like
0:04:22this will now serve as the jury assembly
0:04:23room for group you know 27 or whatever
0:04:26and a judge came in and said basically
0:04:29you know the bad the the what was that
0:04:33the bad news is we're not gonna
0:04:35need you today or whatever the good news
0:04:36is like this is a multi-month case you
0:04:42are and it's like I i am so torn because
0:04:46I really believe in doing my duty for
0:04:49that it's like you know if you want me
0:04:51for a week
0:04:52I can grossly inconvenience my family I
0:04:55can basically not make money for a week
0:04:58out you know that's okay that's that's
0:05:00part of what you gotta do but that it
0:05:02puts so much pressure on my wife you
0:05:04know I take care of my daughter in the
0:05:06afternoon that's my job and like that's
0:05:09the way the light construction i know
0:05:10that's fancy but that's the dad I need
0:05:13to be and holidays coming up and
0:05:16everything and it's just like oh I can't
0:05:18imagine spending election day sitting in
0:05:20the Superior Court jury room and I i do
0:05:23not find that it's fancy though you
0:05:25don't need to apologize for being fancy
0:05:27yes just sits you to your alternative
0:05:30lifestyle will have you ever gone to
0:05:31jury duty and try to make the case that
0:05:33you shouldn't be on well let me let me
0:05:36just say you're saying you just don't
0:05:37get called Ellen I am the one probably
0:05:41the one person in the world
0:05:42maybe I'm not the one person in the
0:05:44world but i am in the very small
0:05:45minority of people that waits like on
0:05:49baited breath to be called for jury duty
0:05:52it has a strange one time in my life
0:05:55when I was 23 years old and I was
0:05:59sitting in the jury selection room and
0:06:01everyone else is just looking like you
0:06:04know somebody just handed them a garbage
0:06:06bag full of water without a twist tie
0:06:08looks good shit ah and i am sitting in
0:06:15that chair literally bouncing on my
0:06:17hands so the ink I got ready to make up
0:06:18we got we got we got to be under coming
0:06:21it was a murder case I hope it's the
0:06:23last for six months because not only was
0:06:25i think the real to be part of the
0:06:28democratic process for the you know jury
0:06:29of your peers to get $13 the thirteen
0:06:33dollars today and being on a jury for
0:06:35six months would have solved so many of
0:06:37my life problem i would give you so much
0:06:39focus well that i'm also allow you have
0:06:42to have clothes ready
0:06:44you have to think about where you need
0:06:45to be in the morning well maybe they
0:06:47put me up in a hotel because they had to
0:06:49sequester sequester John it because
0:06:51somebody like some mafia thing or
0:06:53whatever like a hit man and I that would
0:06:56have solved the problem of not having a
0:06:58place to live at that boy is yeah and
0:07:00and any time you know any time like a
0:07:03girl was like why haven't I seen you I'd
0:07:04be like sorry I'm injuries like and I
0:07:07can't talk about it i guess yeah exactly
0:07:09right I've been out of every problem it
0:07:12would have just solved everything so I'm
0:07:13bouncing up and down the Chairman Ben
0:07:15and you know i'm watching the attorneys
0:07:17trying to get people i'm like oh man
0:07:20I've got a great answer that question
0:07:22come on come on come on ask me ask me
0:07:24ask me ask me like I i wanted to raise
0:07:26my hand when they were asking other you
0:07:28know like have you ever Hunger Games you
0:07:30ready to get service up his tribute let
0:07:32me go let always have people go home
0:07:33happy to do it on behalf of that little
0:07:36child yes for her and then they were
0:07:38like okay we got our jury it like it's a
0:07:40good print ago I was so defeated I was
0:07:43like that's it
0:07:44do you remember why was it just that
0:07:46they didn't need your body not never got
0:07:48they never got to you never got to me
0:07:51they just made a jury and and I was like
0:07:53will will will you guys gotta meet
0:07:56another jury right like we're all here
0:07:58why don't you just make a jury out of us
0:08:00for the next thing that's good idea and
0:08:02and there was just like go home and so
0:08:05then for a long time I waited for the
0:08:07envelope to come like gotta get it again
0:08:09right it's like this this amazing
0:08:12laughter anything it's not even like the
0:08:13draft like it's one thing to say gosh I
0:08:14hope I'm 1a and i hope i get drafted he
0:08:17will you know what you can always just
0:08:18go join in this case you can't just go
0:08:20show up at the courthouse and say I'm
0:08:21ready to serve right yeah I would have
0:08:24done it a hundred times it's like giving
0:08:25blood
0:08:26yeah and and what's crazy is I'm four
0:08:29out of four voter like that I they know
0:08:32where my address is like I'm i am I
0:08:35couldn't be more of a citizen and yet
0:08:39somehow my bill never gets wrong
0:08:41that's a shame John yeah and they're
0:08:43calling you every third day and it just
0:08:46it feels like it just feels a little bit
0:08:49like an injustice to imagine me on a
0:08:51jury
0:08:51I mean I actually I really I i can it
0:08:54calls to mind so many things I see you I
0:08:56see very quickly by unanimous a claim
0:08:59being made the form and maybe
0:09:00even before they're done seeing people
0:09:02they just clearly this this is the
0:09:03anchorman thank you thank you i mean
0:09:06what i don't understand in a when I see
0:09:09like court cases on TV what you do a lot
0:09:13it's very popular thing to have on TV
0:09:16yeah which in its own way is like weird
0:09:19that a major major feature of what we
0:09:23consider entertaining television is just
0:09:26like watching watching a court case it's
0:09:31really kind of strange idea like right
0:09:33eleven percent of all television shows
0:09:35are just watching the antics of people
0:09:37in a courtroom and I mean I guess it
0:09:39makes sense right it's like it's it's an
0:09:41intellectual I think it's kind of genre
0:09:43it's totally Israel but what I don't
0:09:46understand watching a jury on TV is they
0:09:48just sit there and passively like how
0:09:52boring or i mean are you are you
0:09:55severely restricted to every morning do
0:09:57they say
0:09:57now remember don't raise your hand
0:10:02don't say but but right and don't don't
0:10:05audibly roll your eyes right don't like
0:10:08try and do a better job than the lawyer
0:10:10don't say pulleys like how do you not do
0:10:13those things are now I know 13 and
0:10:15everybody last time i was on for a of
0:10:17the four-day trial and had a buddy and
0:10:20we would just give each other look
0:10:21because you know of course
0:10:23well he can't get into this i don't i
0:10:25don't want to cause trouble for myself
0:10:26but there's all kinds of things you're
0:10:27not supposed to do that everybody does
0:10:29because this is in that case whatever
0:10:32I mean you got a phone and stuff you
0:10:35know they're not so don't do any viral
0:10:37research and look like right
0:10:40I'm not gonna break first thing you do
0:10:42is google the guy right
0:10:43it's google map where the accident
0:10:44happened like the whole nine like I
0:10:46don't know the visibility there is a
0:10:47little strange i think i was going
0:10:49pretty fast and that would do that but
0:10:51yeah my buddy and me we just give each
0:10:53other looks through the whole thing but
0:10:54now I'm you get you know general
0:10:56admonitions about these kinds of things
0:10:57and you know the thing is as part of it
0:10:59that is really are
0:11:01there's several parts of it that are
0:11:02absolutely amazing i mean the the folks
0:11:06who are involved in this the bailiff
0:11:08sand all the the court there's like
0:11:10there's like a guy who's like or a gal
0:11:12who's like the
0:11:13manager of the courtroom you've got the
0:11:16judge is frequently in dingus and then
0:11:18you got the person who like manages the
0:11:19jury stuff and whose i forgot what he
0:11:21called the courtroom not the court
0:11:22reporter but it's the person who like
0:11:23basically manages everything that's
0:11:25happening in the courtroom and that
0:11:27person is amazing to watch as a as a
0:11:30retired project manager i can just say
0:11:31watching somebody like that operate is
0:11:33amazing because our uniform early a
0:11:35madman
0:11:36no no it's it's usually somebody in like
0:11:38you know kind of business casual kind of
0:11:40thing and they're coordinating with all
0:11:41the lawyers they're talking to the judge
0:11:43they're dealing with the jury they are
0:11:44your conduit for dealing if anything
0:11:46comes up like if you know that's who you
0:11:49talk to and if you go to the bathroom
0:11:50what do you have to go to the bathroom
0:11:52you gotta wait what
0:11:54yeah if they're in the middle of
0:11:56something and you're like who knows
0:11:58stuff that's what you are no you have no
0:12:01anything they tell you in the thing is
0:12:04they are very least the ones i've been
0:12:06on their very considerate about saying
0:12:08like you know we try to make this as
0:12:09easy and comfortable as possible but you
0:12:10know the process is the process
0:12:12sometimes there's delays something's get
0:12:14changed you know sometimes some days
0:12:15you're gonna go home a little early some
0:12:16days you're gonna stay a little bit late
0:12:18and you know that's just this is just
0:12:20the nature of how this works but right
0:12:22is you know how it is it's always
0:12:23amazing to watch anybody who's good at
0:12:24their job and somebody who does the same
0:12:26thing over and over every day and
0:12:28clearly has been through the wringer of
0:12:30all different kinds of experiences it's
0:12:32amazing to watch somebody like wow
0:12:33that's why i love watching the live feed
0:12:35of your podcast oh thank you your
0:12:37podcast and they've the thing is they've
0:12:39heard it all is the other thing so you
0:12:41know you go and you might have your
0:12:42protestations about this or that and but
0:12:44like you know the judge and the court
0:12:48room manager person are very good at
0:12:49going like cutting straight to the issue
0:12:52of like you know so they basically
0:12:54anything you come up with like as it's
0:12:56one thing to say like okay like I have I
0:12:58have chemo and here's my notarized
0:13:00statement from a doctor and we're going
0:13:02to going i have mixed feelings about the
0:13:04Civil War and they're like okay so
0:13:05you're telling you cannot make an honest
0:13:07and admit I'm gonna look like such an
0:13:08idiot like my daughter is it's cool and
0:13:11it's like really yeah like you know like
0:13:13can you eat chips in the dream and not
0:13:15supposed to eat chips you're not
0:13:16supposed to even pretend that you have a
0:13:18phone I had a really good spot near a
0:13:19charger so I could I could stay charged
0:13:22the whole way to make you can keep your
0:13:23phone in that
0:13:24yeah but you're not supposed to use it
0:13:26at all even to just sit and play
0:13:28solitaire you know it happens helpful
0:13:30for me to when I'm listening to somebody
0:13:32talk to be also playing minesweeper well
0:13:35for me Alec walking like I would much
0:13:36prefer to be pacing while the whole
0:13:38thing is going they should have like a
0:13:40like a like a big Panther cage you could
0:13:41walk around and I would process the
0:13:43information like that I thought probably
0:13:46distracting that 12 to like it don't
0:13:49know just casing what the cork it's one
0:13:53of those one of those things like the
0:13:54use of the head when they're keeping
0:13:56cage uh Milosevic tuna in a blackberry
0:14:00like a Nuremberg pen that's a good idea
0:14:03i should bring that thing going tomorrow
0:14:05on election day for superior capture its
0:14:08beauty are used
0:14:09oh my god well you know I i emailed you
0:14:12i sent ya included you in a bcc blast
0:14:14email last week to save all of my
0:14:16podcast buddies
0:14:18it's that time again it's basically like
0:14:20my municipal period has come it's time
0:14:22for me to go and see aunt flow at the
0:14:24courthouse like I always have to do the
0:14:26job as part of the year no and so but
0:14:29then I you know to get texted you and
0:14:31said hey you know I called it on friday
0:14:33and i was ok for today but yeah yeah and
0:14:37it'll be fine it'll be fine i mean it's
0:14:40not that I don't want to do it and I
0:14:41don't mean to be precious it i want to
0:14:44do it i just don't want to do it for
0:14:45like months
0:14:46yeah it's very I mean I I don't want to
0:14:49be a dick about it but like that is
0:14:50incredibly disruptive now I'm so happy
0:14:53by giving the western part of town it
0:14:55takes me like almost an hour to get in
0:14:56and almost an hour to get home and then
0:14:58my wife was a big lady job is going to
0:15:00have to like do all this extra heavy
0:15:02lifting during that time it's like I but
0:15:04I feel the selfishness and what I'm
0:15:05saying but at the same time it's like at
0:15:07here's what I don't understand right the
0:15:09only people that end up on jury duties
0:15:11are old people and not people who don't
0:15:15have anything else can move that doesn't
0:15:16stop that's the stereotype but in
0:15:19practice that is not true at all
0:15:20oh very cool very cool well and I have a
0:15:23theory about this just accuse thinks
0:15:25it's because people can tell that I'm
0:15:26impressionable which is probably true
0:15:27also but I mean the things I've done in
0:15:30there like the one the first time that i
0:15:32was on a case that went through to a
0:15:35jury verdict
0:15:36it was like the longest day of my life
0:15:38because you got it I got called for two
0:15:39different jury things got pulled away
0:15:41and finally by like lunchtime we were
0:15:43seated for a trial that was that one day
0:15:46and so is but we were there until like
0:15:48almost ten o'clock to the end of this
0:15:50and it was one of the most Kafka ask
0:15:52frustrating days of my life ever tell
0:15:55you the story were basically it was a it
0:15:57was a pretty clear-cut long story short
0:15:59a guy who was a real dick
0:16:02it was a high school student went and
0:16:04picked a fight with a fellow student
0:16:06before school depicted with organized
0:16:09group there are they over 18
0:16:11no no no they're both their their high
0:16:13school students and school in
0:16:15Tallahassee and this one kid who was
0:16:18kind of a dick when interactive fight
0:16:19with this other kid who'd been i think
0:16:21it was basically just being bullied and
0:16:23the kid bit off part of his ear the bad
0:16:26kid the other kid the kid who had been
0:16:29at attacked and the the so one get
0:16:32started the fight the kids fought back
0:16:34and office here
0:16:36yeah okay so I mean it was that was
0:16:38facts and evidence it was stipulated
0:16:39this is what's going on with the
0:16:41cannibalism in florida by the way
0:16:42there's so much talk about Florida but
0:16:44here's what it came down to you're gonna
0:16:46hear a lot of stuff in here but here's
0:16:47what this comes down to this case comes
0:16:48down to this
0:16:49did this school correctly follow its
0:16:53established policy for teachers
0:16:56supervising students before school
0:16:59started a lot of specificity in that
0:17:01you're not here to decide whether
0:17:03whether ears are good or bad you're not
0:17:05here to decide whether these teachers
0:17:06work hard you have a single fact to
0:17:08determine the single fact is this
0:17:10did the school and its teachers follow
0:17:11the policy of monitoring students and
0:17:14they hadn't because it happened on
0:17:16school ground on school grounds before
0:17:17school and basically a teacher had not
0:17:20been standing in this one spot at the
0:17:22time they're supposed to be standing in
0:17:23this one spot okay so boom game over
0:17:25now you have to decide how much these
0:17:27people should get and then you get to
0:17:30the job much the parents of the bad kids
0:17:33should get for the missing here
0:17:34nope how much this school system will
0:17:38have to pay the kid who bit you got his
0:17:40ear bitten off because he had been
0:17:41improperly supervise
0:17:45so then you get to the really fun part
0:17:47the judge says okay now I realize you
0:17:49you haven't gotten to have your little
0:17:50caesars pizza that arrived right before
0:17:51we call you back and I know you haven't
0:17:53eaten in hours but here's the thing
0:17:54that's gonna take 45 minutes I'm going
0:17:56to read you the jury instructions and I
0:17:58want you to listen very carefully and
0:17:59the judge reads the jury instructions
0:18:01which of course now have you know we're
0:18:03negotiating by by the council and by the
0:18:05judge if it takes 45 minutes to reduce
0:18:08it
0:18:08I want to look at least 20 but i think
0:18:10it was over half an hour and they read
0:18:11to the jury instructions in the same now
0:18:13go back there and decide when you're
0:18:16little caesars pizza at that point at
0:18:17that point the bailiff had already taken
0:18:19the pizza way because they thought it
0:18:20was all done so we didn't get to eat but
0:18:22sounds like a simple trifling matter but
0:18:24you know why I'm either hypoglycemic
0:18:26more impatient depending on who you ask
0:18:27it's so everybody's little loopy it's
0:18:30gonna be past eight o'clock and so you
0:18:32know you did we do the thing we've seen
0:18:34on TV which is we said okay okay we're
0:18:37going to work out you know we're gonna
0:18:38do you know we're gonna do we're gonna
0:18:40find ok that yeah that happened but you
0:18:43know you know you know what you gotta
0:18:44pay a dollar 11 dollar haha one dollar
0:18:48we came back in we gave it yet and we
0:18:51had the same and then have you reached
0:18:52her as anything else yeah yeah yeah we
0:18:54the jury find the case embedded in a
0:18:56state one dollar counsel for the
0:19:00plaintiff who look like Bill Clinton
0:19:02shoots up into the air raises his hand
0:19:05and said some kind of harry potter mumbo
0:19:07jumbo about how he objected because if
0:19:12memory serves I was very very hungry at
0:19:14the time I think he said something like
0:19:15he objected because the the the penalty
0:19:19did not accord with the facts and
0:19:22evidence for the jury instructions right
0:19:24and the judge goes I think he took off
0:19:26his little round glasses off the end of
0:19:28his nose and goes
0:19:29sustained jaw surgery I'm going to read
0:19:37you the jury instructions again and I
0:19:40want you to listen very carefully when
0:19:43we like where we allowed to ask
0:19:45questions about what we did wrong
0:19:46we were not where we were allowed to
0:19:49like basically see where the red marks
0:19:50on our paperwork know you included
0:19:53did you remember to put the date on it
0:19:54all you know what we probably forgot
0:19:56that are we done sign a legal name
0:19:57little brown to write back a long story
0:19:59we had to go back and no people what
0:20:02what was it in the jury instructions
0:20:03that prohibited you from a warning one
0:20:06dollar i don't know i still don't know I
0:20:08was hungry I don't remember we went back
0:20:10we came up with some phony baloney
0:20:11number and then we finally got to the
0:20:12parking garage and go home $1,000 one I
0:20:15honestly have to collect awkward
0:20:17wow yeah so anyway that was that and
0:20:20that's frustrating you really want to
0:20:22award somebody one-dollar it's a shame
0:20:24you can't go and volunteer because I
0:20:25think you'd be great at it you know and
0:20:27it's mine i would go down every couple
0:20:29of months it's interesting your group
0:20:31your original question which is that oh
0:20:33isn't it just like retirees who are
0:20:35looking for somebody to to you know a
0:20:37place to do you somewhere they can get
0:20:39up before in the morning on a necktie
0:20:41her next dress and show up
0:20:43mom I mean use their skills like that
0:20:45Robert De Niro movie where he went
0:20:49it's a movie that you see on an airplane
0:20:50where he went and got a job after he was
0:20:54retired i think is Wi-Fi all right with
0:20:57the girl family miss and was the girl
0:20:58that he was the intern he was the intern
0:21:01right into teaching now in turn he would
0:21:03have been a vice president at a company
0:21:06that made rockets
0:21:08yeah in the very building that she had
0:21:11now started her fashions on my gosh what
0:21:13are the chances and then every morning
0:21:15he got up and he put on his tie is so
0:21:18elegant and then it turned out he knew
0:21:21everything because he was a wise sage
0:21:23yeah he was he was like basically
0:21:24driving miss daisy um but I think the
0:21:28attorneys for each side have something
0:21:30very particular in mind and who they're
0:21:33looking for and and and honestly they
0:21:36don't want somebody who's there to take
0:21:38up a chair
0:21:39they want they want somebody who
0:21:41they might want somebody who's kind of
0:21:43frustrated with the system think about
0:21:44that depending on website or you want
0:21:46somebody who is going to see through you
0:21:49know to not have a preconception about a
0:21:51certain side and if you and maybe you
0:21:53want somebody who's a little cynical
0:21:55about the system
0:21:56what about a guy what about a
0:21:57middle-aged guy who is bouncing up and
0:21:58down in his chair going Oh see on the
0:22:00face of it feels like that should really
0:22:02work right feels it feels like that
0:22:04would be just the thing that would say
0:22:06look at this little fellow here I really
0:22:07want to be here i want to do a good job
0:22:09i will listen to the jury instructions i
0:22:11will really listen to them
0:22:13yeah i will get every little every last
0:22:15every last comment in the jury
0:22:17instructions because that's the type of
0:22:18thing i like to give you a pad of paper
0:22:20that's nice you can write things down
0:22:21you can make notes but no chance there's
0:22:24no chance I can't just go down and like
0:22:25sit out front
0:22:27I should I should go down to the
0:22:28courthouse it out front with a sign and
0:22:30say why like I'm on strike against the
0:22:33court system why I never did know how
0:22:35does taylor swift get called but not you
0:22:37terry taylor swift got called to a jury
0:22:39oh yeah she took selfies with everybody
0:22:41well this is the thing I'm United I
0:22:43wouldn't change it you're both you're
0:22:45both prominent rock musicians if you can
0:22:47take selfies with other jurors I'm gonna
0:22:49be good at that too look I don't think
0:22:50she was probably construction should i
0:22:52do and you would have probably a great
0:22:54outfit every day you look fantastic
0:22:55people think they would be proud to have
0:22:57them to be judged by you to be treated
0:22:58by you
0:22:59thank you i think there'd be you know
0:23:02there'd be a 11 people up there couldn't
0:23:05true and mhm and and and you know i
0:23:09would look like amazing
0:23:10it's too bad you can't just go and like
0:23:12wish it was a little bit more like a
0:23:13cafeteria where you could go and say
0:23:15like you know there's my budget for this
0:23:17like I don't like something it's not too
0:23:19dramatic record be out in 24 days right
0:23:22asian nation in panel juries at the
0:23:24start of the week they should know all
0:23:26their cases
0:23:27mhm and they should say who wants to be
0:23:28on a one-day trial right everybody put
0:23:30their hands up you know and it's like
0:23:32who wants to be on a trial that
0:23:34potentially could go for months
0:23:36yes and they would be there be plenty of
0:23:38people that were like you know what me
0:23:40yeah meet me I want that I oh yeah so
0:23:45anyway you are right here on the cusp of
0:23:48an historic day
0:23:49ya tomorrow yeah it's going to be
0:23:52historic
0:23:53God and everything is happening it's all
0:23:56happening at once all the built up
0:23:58stress of all these months
0:23:59yeah and you're going to be sitting
0:24:00somewhere listening to opening remarks I
0:24:03don't know we'll see i'll find out today
0:24:05find out this afternoon when reloading
0:24:07the website sometimes they put up the
0:24:09notice little bit early
0:24:10mhm oo laga vault is what we say in a
0:24:13situation like this
0:24:14yeah Mazel Tov cocktail yeah and I I i
0:24:18want to wish you good good good speed
0:24:20thank you you sound really good today
0:24:23what's going on you sound the sound did
0:24:25you did you would never make it to the
0:24:26pharmacy I did I did
0:24:28I'm reupped on my on my pharmaceuticals
0:24:31how this is great news
0:24:33yeah and but you know I spent the
0:24:35weekend down in a cabin on the water
0:24:40yeah in the general vicinity of olympia
0:24:43washington uh-huh and I was with the
0:24:45with some friends I brought my daughter
0:24:47my lady friend was there some other pals
0:24:51and we watched the bald eagles fly
0:24:53around all that sounds really nice made
0:24:55some you know is one of those things
0:24:57where you spend eight hours making
0:25:00dinner
0:25:00well that's that's that's a nice day
0:25:02that we decided that we had the big
0:25:04carnival at school this weekend which
0:25:05was which is a lot of work but uh but
0:25:08but it's nice to have something that
0:25:09distracts the mind a little bit with a
0:25:12family that's a nice thing
0:25:13yeah it was it was good and and now i'm
0:25:16back here in the town and this is this
0:25:21is a busy week for me course because
0:25:23several months ago or something someone
0:25:27wrote me an email which often happens
0:25:29and they said hey I've got a great idea
0:25:32why don't you curate a show for election
0:25:36night em and I was like that sounds
0:25:39right up your alley
0:25:40yeah curated show for election night
0:25:41that's a wonderful idea yeah it'll be
0:25:43great curated show for election night
0:25:45okay great but then as time wore on the
0:25:51show is a kind of shit like a regular
0:25:53show that they do and they just have
0:25:55guest curators come in but the Regular
0:25:57Show has a real format
0:25:59ok and so the formatted is not being
0:26:01altered at all for the election night
0:26:04and the format
0:26:06office like okay i guess ii which is
0:26:08what can I ask what the format is well
0:26:10the format is get three songwriters who
0:26:14then sit onstage with one another and
0:26:16interact with each other and like play
0:26:18on one another's tunes which right away
0:26:21is a ton of work for it's a lot more
0:26:25than it sounds like it's yeah you don't
0:26:27just get up and I'll Jam with you on
0:26:28your tune like you have to learn 100
0:26:30songs have to rehearse them you have to
0:26:32care you have to be into it right you
0:26:35can just pick three random musicians
0:26:38they all have to have respect for one
0:26:39another and be into playing on one
0:26:41another songs and play the right part be
0:26:44supportive it's not always going to be
0:26:45George Harrison eric clapton yeah right
0:26:48and I you know I've seen shows where
0:26:50everyone onstage totally respected one
0:26:53another as songwriters but didn't
0:26:55actually want to jam or want to play on
0:27:01one you know that like like i did a tour
0:27:03one time with like some very notable
0:27:06people who were trying to do this thing
0:27:09on to ER and at a certain point one of
0:27:11the songwriters was like you know what
0:27:13this doesn't really i feel like i am not
0:27:17really into these other people's songs
0:27:20that much
0:27:21creatively I know interesting and it was
0:27:23like hmm what about you know like uh
0:27:26well I guess right that that has an
0:27:33internal integrity to it you know like
0:27:35in a way that the because at first
0:27:38you're like that's not being a very good
0:27:40sport but then when you think about it
0:27:42what the comment was effectively was you
0:27:46know music is sacred calling to me and
0:27:50so I feel like I'm doing everyone a
0:27:52disservice by playing half acidly on
0:27:55this stuff that I can't get my whole
0:27:57soul behind and so at the end of the day
0:28:00or like
0:28:02that's taking it more seriously than i
0:28:04was taking it is out under fashion
0:28:06opt-out jangling jangling I mean you
0:28:09know and and so and I wasn't like one of
0:28:12the players I was just I was just a was
0:28:16actually the driver on that tour but
0:28:18anyway so it's a bigger deal than just
0:28:22ya throat three people up there and
0:28:24they're going to gym with each other and
0:28:25then here's the rest of the format
0:28:28there will also be a poet whose onstage
0:28:31with the three musicians are you with me
0:28:35yes so far see where we're going am in
0:28:37two painters who are painting during no
0:28:43really
0:28:44and so I this all kind of like came out
0:28:46gradually like Al i'll do a show and
0:28:49then I'm kind of a month of silence went
0:28:50by and I was like all right we should
0:28:51start talking about that show okay great
0:28:53its election night what I was thinking
0:28:54is that get up there with some friends
0:28:56we play a song that we talked about the
0:28:58election we talk about the thing we
0:29:02rapidly rap about about the the night
0:29:05and then maybe play another song and and
0:29:08the person who runs the thing what came
0:29:10back was like yeah uh except for that's
0:29:15not how we do the show
0:29:16here's how we do the show was like and
0:29:18that with every iteration of like here's
0:29:20how we do the show I was like oh uh yeah
0:29:24alright yeah I get it
0:29:25female poet and and some painters yeah
0:29:29I've been on stage with painters before
0:29:31this is this i don't know man is that
0:29:34this feels gimmicky well sure that's the
0:29:38thing it's a gimmick but I mean it
0:29:41sounds like a project runway and when
0:29:42they ask people to be inspired by a
0:29:44bridge or a theme park ride and yeah I'm
0:29:46not really sure that talent operation
0:29:47works
0:29:48yeah right two good-looking you can you
0:29:50be inspired by the flashcard go
0:29:52yeah and so and and also like it's not
0:29:56at that point it's not me doing a show
0:30:00it's me filling the role
0:30:02for me the shooting me me now neither
0:30:06UMC roll Yeah right
0:30:10and so as time went on like I kind of
0:30:12get less and less interested in it i
0:30:14procured a couple of great musicians for
0:30:16it but you know my butt and they're
0:30:19gonna be amazing but like em I shit my
0:30:23spot wasn't in it like a I i could I can
0:30:26picture it going down and and I can him
0:30:31see a thing like that because I'm not
0:30:32someone who's like the spirit and soul
0:30:34of my emceeing duties pro precludes me
0:30:38from being a part of this like the dog
0:30:41and pony show
0:30:42yeah like no I will emcee your gamer you
0:30:45get out there MC yeah sure the release
0:30:47of the new chevy camaro i would judge
0:30:49that's a that's a show i'll couple the
0:30:52microphone like you could hand me a
0:30:53microphone at add up and a like legal
0:30:57execution and I would be like thanks
0:30:59everybody for coming
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0:33:39this person with lethal injection
0:33:42uh so is everybody comfortable alright
0:33:45let's get started so but then as time
0:33:49went on it was like now wait a minute
0:33:50this is not just a thing
0:33:52this is not in the category of things
0:33:54that I kind of agreed to do and then
0:33:56just sort of don't want to do as as it
0:33:58gets closer to the show which is which
0:34:00is a a a big category this is actually a
0:34:03night that i would rather be somewhere
0:34:04else because I've been getting a lot of
0:34:07invitations like come to our election
0:34:08night party it's gonna be insane and I'm
0:34:10like I would like to do that rather I
0:34:13would let a rather be a i would rather
0:34:16be somewhere other than onstage with two
0:34:19painters and poets and while you know
0:34:23while three musicians like like
0:34:25good-naturedly labor their way through a
0:34:28show and cologne off Annie just like so
0:34:32this is a song that I wrote a few years
0:34:35back and then everybody else is kind of
0:34:36chin on hand going hm and you know in
0:34:42the end the the main person of the thing
0:34:44is standing in the back around the room
0:34:46is half-full because none of us have
0:34:47bothered to promote it or maybe the room
0:34:49is 18 full which is going to be even
0:34:51better because because its a night where
0:34:53other people also want to be doing
0:34:55something else and the guys are saying
0:34:57this is tomorrow night
0:34:58you have tomorrow and tonight at the
0:35:002016 presidential election that's
0:35:02correct
0:35:03now we're both in an awkward position
0:35:04here this is proof yeah we are and in
0:35:07fact i sent an email this past weekend
0:35:09was like look we haven't really promoted
0:35:10this there aren't that many people
0:35:12coming
0:35:12clearly we haven't prepared at all so
0:35:16why don't we just put postpone this and
0:35:19the person running it wrote me back very
0:35:21carefully was like haha I totally know
0:35:24we're coming from but we've never
0:35:26postponed to show we are no he said we
0:35:28don't postpone these I was like we don't
0:35:32postpone these um like we don't we don't
0:35:37put our elbows on the table we don't we
0:35:40don't take a crap on the table we do it
0:35:42we do it no matter what right and I felt
0:35:45like well if that's the case then you
0:35:47must have a contingency plan for when I
0:35:49don't do it failure is not an option but
0:35:52i don't but i didn't do that of course
0:35:53because I track its porky the MC yeah
0:35:56and so I was like em right have you have
0:35:59you have you attended one of these no
0:36:01okay no because over them they have been
0:36:04doing this for a long time but this is
0:36:06not the kind of show I typically would
0:36:08go to unless someone specifically
0:36:10invited me and it met the following
0:36:13criteria I cared about the performers I
0:36:17didn't have anything else to do i
0:36:20happened to be in the neighborhood right
0:36:22and someone took me by the hand and said
0:36:26I'd never seen the likes of McNamara's
0:36:28and why not come with them now and none
0:36:35of those things that ever happened and
0:36:36so and everything is it takes place in
0:36:40an old church i think and also it has
0:36:44always big league had a sort of churchy
0:36:48vibe in the sense that you know the
0:36:51Seattle music scene 10 years ago 10 to
0:36:5612 years ago there was a new sort of
0:37:00very evangelical element that came into
0:37:04the music scene interesting that was a
0:37:06thing where a lot of kids that had grown
0:37:08up with evangelical parents were in
0:37:11churches where rock and roll was not
0:37:13only permitted but encouraged ok like
0:37:15the the worship band was a rock band
0:37:19rather than on rock band and so it was
0:37:22an element of you know it's like when
0:37:25the minister's started to have tattoos
0:37:26and started to do you remember did you
0:37:29ever see the long winters on tour where
0:37:30Shawn Nelson bought an extreme teen
0:37:33bible and every you know between songs
0:37:35he would just read excerpts final
0:37:37remember that but i have heard about
0:37:38this is a kind of famous Bible yeah the
0:37:40extreme teen bible where all the Bible
0:37:42verses had been written had been
0:37:44rewritten in in terms you know in in
0:37:48what they imagine where the language of
0:37:50extreme team boy and we had one of these
0:37:53a long time ago we it was a it was one
0:37:56of our gimmicks reread it for one tour
0:37:58at the met the Old Testament would be
0:38:01pretty interesting mean really good so
0:38:03many extreme parts and you know Shawn
0:38:06Nelson is a great reader louder and he
0:38:09did a little bit dramatic interp
0:38:11but anyway so the extreme-teen
0:38:13rock-and-roll things started to come
0:38:16into the Seattle music scene kind of
0:38:18heavy it was just sort of they're all of
0:38:21a sudden and those of us who had been in
0:38:23the music scene for a long time like
0:38:24what the who and david bazan being one
0:38:27of the big one of the earliest and sort
0:38:29of most prominence people in this thing
0:38:33but it turned out that segment of the
0:38:36scene which was a large you know twenty
0:38:39percent probably of the music scene at a
0:38:41certain point produced a lot of big rock
0:38:46bands like the head and the heart came
0:38:47out of that and a and father john misty
0:38:51and you know like a lot and a lot of
0:38:53them lost their a as they became more
0:38:57you know basically let's just say drugs
0:39:00and sex whenever the kind of late
0:39:02transition but a lot of people good and
0:39:05so this venue and this experience over
0:39:08there with the painters in the poet and
0:39:09always had a little bit of a vibe of
0:39:11being part of that scene and that seems
0:39:14always been a little difficult to
0:39:15navigate because it's never over to
0:39:19nobody says nobody ever has said that
0:39:21I've seen from the stage anything
0:39:24remotely proselytizing it's just they're
0:39:29like hey everybody thanks for coming to
0:39:30the show and then they play the show and
0:39:32there's all the kind of in coded
0:39:35language in the songs about lifting
0:39:38oneself up that dog was a face you get
0:39:41all the dog whistles within the tunes
0:39:43but all kind of in extreme teen language
0:39:46and so the people better looking for the
0:39:48people that are there because the band
0:39:50is also in their church
0:39:52um they're all like nodding and going
0:39:54like yes
0:39:56like who this past year at the puyallup
0:39:59fair which is the Washington State Fair
0:40:01there was a there's a tent where they do
0:40:04them and the sort of community cultural
0:40:08events like the the tide answers like
0:40:12people that are in their inner in there
0:40:14practicing their own sort of a culture
0:40:18of of a particular community like it
0:40:21there at one point during the day will
0:40:23be ethiopian drummers
0:40:24and then it will be so forth and so you
0:40:26know and I and I went by I went by the
0:40:3110 at one point and there were these
0:40:32wonderful women doing this sort of you
0:40:35this ballet like but modern like they're
0:40:38doing modern ballet across the stage and
0:40:40there's no one in the audience and so I
0:40:44think this is wonderful and obviously
0:40:46I'm with my daughter and sheep is
0:40:48intrigued and all the women are in kind
0:40:51of like different shades of pastel sort
0:40:55of flowing angelic costume and they're
0:41:01doing this wonderful dancing and so we
0:41:03go over we sit down in the chair and
0:41:05there and and they're obviously like
0:41:08both really talented dancers and also
0:41:10really sincere about what they're doing
0:41:12and I was really drawn in and so was a
0:41:18little one and then at one point one of
0:41:23the because because they're be group
0:41:25dancing and then on either side of the
0:41:26stage they would be the dancers in
0:41:28waiting and there was something about
0:41:30the way that they that they constructed
0:41:32their act so that these dancers would
0:41:36move kind of like a wave over in this
0:41:37direction and then they would pick up
0:41:39one of the dancers that was on the side
0:41:41she would join their little motion and
0:41:44they spin around and then wave around
0:41:46and then two of them would drop off the
0:41:48other side of the stage and then they'd
0:41:50spin around and then one of them would
0:41:52come on from you was like really a fluid
0:41:54motion sensor network
0:41:57it was great you know a lot of work and
0:42:01then at one point one of the dancers on
0:42:02the other side i noticed had one hand up
0:42:05in the air palm out and was eyes closed
0:42:09kind of like head lifted into the
0:42:13heavens
0:42:14hi there there exalting a little bit
0:42:16yeah well at first I didn't recognize
0:42:18what it was I thought maybe it was part
0:42:20of the dance and and I was even more
0:42:22intrigued because i thought oh wait are
0:42:24the dancers in waiting on the side of
0:42:26the stage also in the dance and I'm just
0:42:29not paying attention to them but in in
0:42:31standing there watching the dance
0:42:32they're also actually did that they
0:42:34should be regarded as being on
0:42:36per centum yeah there they are part of
0:42:38the offstage as part of the stage
0:42:39because you know it's all exposed and I
0:42:42was like what is going on and then I saw
0:42:44and she was kind of like singing along
0:42:46with the music and then I then I was
0:42:49like oh is that some exaltation is that
0:42:52like some and I maybe a 1.2 put her hand
0:42:56over heart and then I started to see a
0:42:58couple other of the dancers also
0:43:00behaving in this fashion and so I tuned
0:43:03into the music a little bit more and it
0:43:06was because it was rock music it wasn't
0:43:08they were dancing not to classical music
0:43:10but to like a pretty rock and electric
0:43:14pop I tuned in to the music and started
0:43:17to hear that dog whistling lyrics about
0:43:22i mean i can't duplicate the lyrics but
0:43:25definitely like stuff that was about
0:43:27well it probably like like freedom you
0:43:32made eternity being together forever
0:43:36gress people guiding you not you know
0:43:39like the loaves and two fishes which is
0:43:42a great lyric and then I realized oh my
0:43:46goodness this is a rockin modern ballet
0:43:50evangelical troupe who rather than do a
0:43:57kind of Mennonite costume got into super
0:44:00good
0:44:01I mean they're because they're all while
0:44:03women between the ages of 20 and 25 and
0:44:07they're all great dancers and all you
0:44:11know live in this and so I was like what
0:44:14community of evangelical Christians can
0:44:17produce this like what was that what
0:44:20started it was it like in the church and
0:44:23then someone said hey who wants to
0:44:25audition for the dance troupe or was it
0:44:27did it start as a dance troupe and then
0:44:29they all converted Raven but but there's
0:44:32that idea of using one's talents to
0:44:34serve the Lord right it would just which
0:44:37way to that where did that come from
0:44:38yeah and how do you how do you gather
0:44:40unto you onto your flock 25 great dance
0:44:44it wasn't like there was one really good
0:44:45dancer and a bunch of people kind of
0:44:47just winging it
0:44:48yeah it's not it's not just
0:44:49regular people in the church they're
0:44:50like hey let's use dance it was no we're
0:44:53all we all came we all studied and
0:44:55that's a very interesting project
0:44:56because how do you get 25 really good
0:44:59dancers to do anything regardless of
0:45:01like where they're coming from
0:45:03let alone you know I mean it's just like
0:45:06saying we would we're gonna put together
0:45:08a dance troupe of people that you know
0:45:11like of the greatest chess players in
0:45:14the region who also are amazing dancers
0:45:16and I guess there are probably more
0:45:18there are probably more Christian
0:45:21dancers than there are chess-playing
0:45:22dancers or like top shelf just playing
0:45:25games the top but it's hard to know
0:45:27because it's like it's a it's a part of
0:45:30a pie chart it's like a subset of the
0:45:32pie I mean there's not that many of any
0:45:34of those things but then when you get
0:45:35that down to number of people who have
0:45:37an evangelical bent and then the smaller
0:45:39number that are willing to combine those
0:45:41you can do a pretty thin slice of pie
0:45:43well yeah and it's like it's not just
0:45:45dancers right there there were no there
0:45:48were no people up on stage who had
0:45:49majored in hip-hop dance
0:45:51I mean it's like classically trained
0:45:53dancers are they could all go up on
0:45:54point they were all they were all
0:45:56leapers you know so I so within the
0:46:00within the Seattle music scene there's a
0:46:03similar kind of thing like the the rock
0:46:06the Christian rock overlap here is all
0:46:09very beardy it's all very band Joey and
0:46:13it's all like you know tight pants and
0:46:16and what we formerly would have said
0:46:18were chained wallets but they don't you
0:46:20know nobody wears a chain wallet anymore
0:46:22and and so it's a it's this you know
0:46:26it's a scene within a scene which is all
0:46:30to say this is one more very smart i
0:46:32mean i'm i'm not i'm not kept out of
0:46:35that scene at all some of the people in
0:46:36that scene are very good friends and
0:46:38musical even musical collaborators
0:46:40so what that but it's just another small
0:46:43thing that would have kept me from going
0:46:45to see this painter poet thing because
0:46:48it sort of like known you know like I
0:46:51hear your dog whistle but I'm not a dog
0:46:53you know
0:46:55I do the reason keep turning it over in
0:46:58this particular way is like this
0:47:00did the the you you you put it well with
0:47:03that with the first basic layer which is
0:47:04there's going to be these three
0:47:05musicians that are interacting playing
0:47:06to their songs which as you described as
0:47:08is pretty complicated stuff
0:47:10yeah but it doesn't stop there because
0:47:12they don't you you've got the this other
0:47:14like you know there was it the musicians
0:47:16of bremen or whatever one's called
0:47:19remember that were they animal stand on
0:47:20each other shoulders now the musicians
0:47:22of bremen someone's calm i was called
0:47:24something like that but you get the
0:47:25drift I think it's the music I think
0:47:27it's the biggest the lipizzaner play out
0:47:30yeah
0:47:31dr. stocke music yeah the dot-dot-dot
0:47:33because I guess that stock out don't
0:47:36give me it's not a bad idea i'm doctor
0:47:39doctor dresdin a thousand-dollar the
0:47:42Stardust monkey down and yes but then
0:47:45you add in the poly and then yeah I the
0:47:48painter supposed to be painting based on
0:47:50how they feel of what they're watching
0:47:53or the illustrators of the scene because
0:47:55that they're trying to get at is is that
0:47:58I i I'm sometimes intrigued and often
0:48:01very befuddled by the abstract idea of
0:48:04what other people who find entertaining
0:48:06and almost feels like a stoner chef were
0:48:09like you're going to come up with these
0:48:10really crazy ideas that sound really
0:48:12good in your head might actually be kind
0:48:14of fun if you're super high but for
0:48:15somebody who's not that's not
0:48:17you're not going to get a sitter to go
0:48:18to the stoner restaurant and I'm saying
0:48:20instead I think there's this very fairly
0:48:23abstract idea of look what constitutes
0:48:27entertainment because reasons because
0:48:29like you have a certain way of thinking
0:48:31about things but like that sounds like a
0:48:33first draft of an event to me right that
0:48:35does not sound like something I would
0:48:36return to a lot and maybe that's just
0:48:38because I'm not collect enough to
0:48:40appreciate the the beaux-arts all going
0:48:42together like that but that it feels
0:48:44very abstract so this so in my music
0:48:47career this has happened now several
0:48:48times like there's a there's that show
0:48:50in portland that I often do live wire
0:48:52which is sort of a old old-timey radio
0:48:55show but but new tiny but they have you
0:48:58know they have fully artists they have
0:48:59people doing skits left is another show
0:49:02that that sounds kind of like right like
0:49:04radio radio here we come up here comes
0:49:08more
0:49:08just like you do a lot of garrison
0:49:10keillor fans coming up to defend
0:49:12riparian companion to you sure that
0:49:14you've never heard I got a lot i got a
0:49:16lot of like how you know how dare you
0:49:17and I was like I'm not listen I said
0:49:19very clearly i've never heard very own
0:49:21companion i'm just shitting on it from
0:49:23afar as well you know there's a lot in
0:49:27this culture and I'm I'm guilty of this
0:49:28where you're just you're just shooting
0:49:30on things with a t-shirt cannon right
0:49:32like I see that
0:49:33hey you up there this dance with walk up
0:49:35but button so there was a there was a
0:49:40person named Scott pool who was the poet
0:49:44laureate of a lot of the livewire shows
0:49:46i did who watch the show throughout the
0:49:48show and then at the end of the show got
0:49:50up and performed a poem sort of an epic
0:49:52poem that he'd written about the show he
0:49:54just watched oh my goodness he was a
0:49:56talented poet and a funny person and he
0:49:58would read these bones and you'd be like
0:49:59you know I was wincing as you walked up
0:50:02on the stage at the prospect of thinking
0:50:03it but hearing a poem about this show
0:50:05but that was pretty good you know like i
0:50:07like that that was good i don't know if
0:50:09i would buy a book of them but you know
0:50:11so I've done shows where there was an
0:50:14element of this and then a few times
0:50:17I've been on stage with a painter or at
0:50:20least seen a painter onstage with really
0:50:22one time that I feel like this is the
0:50:24first I've ever heard of that now so
0:50:26this is the best I don't know if it's a
0:50:27thing but it's been enough of us can see
0:50:30somebody doodling at a conference i have
0:50:32a friend is one of those people who's
0:50:34he's a doodler and the conference goers
0:50:36and he brings to get together too much
0:50:38wonderful effect will doodle his version
0:50:40of like have this one big one panel a
0:50:42page of a person's talk that can be
0:50:45really illuminating and one of the
0:50:47better summaries of what you've just
0:50:48seen like I could see that like somebody
0:50:50sitting there with a black pen and a
0:50:52piece of paper so that person that
0:50:54you're describing has actually doodled
0:50:56one of my talks all right and and
0:50:59economic on was done by that this game
0:51:01talk about david gray he's a good dude
0:51:04learns that I kind of me that i use
0:51:05everywhere is is from he did the stuff
0:51:08for the Merlin show remember that show
0:51:09that you won't
0:51:10yeah that was that's all him yeah he did
0:51:14me at added the XOXO conference and
0:51:16you're right there's a central drawing
0:51:17and then around a lot of thought bubbles
0:51:19that I i enjoy this but actually at that
0:51:23same talk another person was doing the
0:51:25same thing like multiple people think
0:51:27that that's a generous i think that's
0:51:28kind of genre but this is not that right
0:51:30now this is a painting or above adopt of
0:51:33the bit is an oil painting
0:51:35well there are two painters two sailors
0:51:38it's just like finding a bunch of
0:51:40evangelical dancers how do you find two
0:51:42painters who will a paint in front of
0:51:46people in the space of an hour and a
0:51:49half the two painters is super
0:51:51interesting to me for negative reasons
0:51:53baseball because it certainly could
0:51:55think about like oh you know uh
0:51:56lin-manuel miranda is obviously the guy
0:51:59who plays Hamilton but have your money
0:52:00as his understudy he understands he's
0:52:02the understudy in your house now is that
0:52:05is one of the primary painter and the
0:52:07other one is the backup and if not how
0:52:08is it not a competition and what is a
0:52:10backup paint
0:52:11well it must be that they're both on
0:52:13snare both lieutenant Colonel's painting
0:52:15it's just that you can help ago that was
0:52:18way better
0:52:19well yeah and so are the painters on
0:52:21opposite sides of the stage facing the
0:52:23audience or are they
0:52:24situated next to one another and like
0:52:26looking at each other's painting as
0:52:28they're painting like me that's right is
0:52:30that I'm going to use brown too i don't
0:52:33like haha i don't know i have no idea
0:52:36having never been to the show right it's
0:52:38just like like if somebody came to me
0:52:40and said all right you have to put on an
0:52:42episode of prairie home companion go i
0:52:44would say alright and I'd step to the
0:52:46microphone and say Lake Wobegon is a
0:52:49little old town where everybody has a
0:52:51good day and people are nice to one
0:52:54another and what's done are you really
0:52:56nailed it and you know here is an
0:52:59advertiser false advertisement for some
0:53:01old-timey flower and now we're going to
0:53:03hear some banjo picking from this guy
0:53:07standard brought awareness and banjo
0:53:09picking from this painter while this
0:53:10painter paints them you know and then i
0:53:13might be able to you know
0:53:15t-shirt cannon bullshitter of my way
0:53:17through an hour and a half of that
0:53:18matters are those shows four and a half
0:53:20hours the two hours long as its
0:53:22presented on the public radio and it's
0:53:24probably in it right it's probably
0:53:25careful editing before our long-term my
0:53:28I imagine it's longer than they added it
0:53:30down I
0:53:30I would imagine 16 hours is right that
0:53:32he writes that show everyone and I mean
0:53:34that's the other guy but i mean god I've
0:53:36always admired that about him that he p
0:53:38wrote that show every week now he's
0:53:40retired he's probably driving around in
0:53:42a in a Volvo station wagon that has a
0:53:44Ford v8 motor in it that was given to
0:53:46him by Paul moment well that's nice
0:53:48let me know what that's really nice yeah
0:53:50that is nice but I so the two times I've
0:53:53seen this done
0:53:53one time I was on stage with john
0:53:55hodgman in tucson arizona and there's a
0:53:58local painter who painted an epically
0:54:01sized mural a mural that went across the
0:54:04entire back of the stage so we're
0:54:07talking about 25 to 30 feet long and 10
0:54:11feet tall and he painted it throughout
0:54:14the show and it was a picture of cthulhu
0:54:17and cthulhu was with its many tentacles
0:54:21grabbing both hodgman and me
0:54:25wow really well represented and pulling
0:54:28us you know into its cthulhu nightscape
0:54:32it is that while the show is going on
0:54:34all the show was going on and completed
0:54:37it by the end of the show so that it was
0:54:39like a complete work and like kind of
0:54:43amazing so amazing that it felt like a
0:54:46shame too because it's not a thing that
0:54:49anybody would has even have space for
0:54:52and if you did have space for it
0:54:53probably you don't want to an epically
0:54:56like multi-panel oil painting of me and
0:54:59husband being dragged bike tool so but
0:55:03but it also felt like too big of a too
0:55:05great of a thing to just throw in a
0:55:07dumpster and that was like a really
0:55:11impressive work and in the space of the
0:55:12show it didn't really intrude on the
0:55:15show he just work back there doing his
0:55:17thing and it just gradually produced an
0:55:22effect of wow this is a this has been a
0:55:26great show this and that's pretty that's
0:55:28pretty awesome it was inspiring would
0:55:30have to depend a lot on what the person
0:55:33who is doing that work and how it turned
0:55:35out right right and and and i think a
0:55:37lot of it was the sort of tight wire act
0:55:40of when he first started painting on
0:55:42this giant can
0:55:43dislike what this is going to be awful
0:55:46you know this shows only two hours long
0:55:49how can this possibly turn out and it
0:55:53did but the other time I've seen i was
0:55:57playing in a was playing a big show at
0:56:01in the the Oregon State Capitol at a
0:56:06university there and we were the the
0:56:11headliners of the the universities like
0:56:13spring flame and it was one of the great
0:56:16it was one of the great sort of shows of
0:56:20that era for us because all day long you
0:56:23you felt like it was a it was a stage
0:56:26set up on a big grassy field like the
0:56:28quad and it and the audience was kind of
0:56:32milling around as they so often do at
0:56:34those events like sort of sparse on the
0:56:37ground and we've played these shows as
0:56:40not the headliner before like we played
0:56:42a show it at Central Washington
0:56:44University one time where the headliner
0:56:46was somebody like sir mix-a-lot and we
0:56:49played on a stage where you could have
0:56:52you could have said hello to each
0:56:53audience member by name and spoken to
0:56:56them at length about their day and it
0:56:59wouldn't have intruder on the shell and
0:57:02those are terrible
0:57:03I mean even when you're being paid a lot
0:57:05of money to do them to just stand there
0:57:07and play to an empty grass field is a
0:57:09bad feeling alright so we were here at
0:57:12this university we're playing this we're
0:57:13watching the other bands and it's also
0:57:15like 15 bands on stage and uh we're
0:57:19watching the other bands and know the
0:57:21audience is not very big and it's a big
0:57:25field and we're like this is another one
0:57:28of these bogus bogus things we played a
0:57:30ski resort 12 her
0:57:31actually wait a minute we played to ski
0:57:33resorts both times opening for the
0:57:36presidents of the united states of
0:57:37america and one and one time in front of
0:57:40the day lodge and it was another thing
0:57:42where they were a bunch of people like
0:57:43literally on skis watching us play and
0:57:46it felt like this kind of a bummer and
0:57:49then the presidents of the USA took the
0:57:51stage and all of a sudden there were 900
0:57:53people
0:57:54in ski boots all standing and snow
0:57:58totally rocking out the second time it
0:58:01was a better deal it was at the sundance
0:58:02melts blood i digress and this was the
0:58:06thing where when we took the stage at
0:58:07the show in Oregon all of a sudden there
0:58:09were 900 people there and they were
0:58:11going crazy and it was like this is the
0:58:13greatest night of our lives like how did
0:58:15this happen where did they all come from
0:58:16but anyway the band that played
0:58:19immediately before us was a band that he
0:58:22that you know their name now is is
0:58:25fairly known in in any Rock circles and
0:58:28let's call them like the rainbow
0:58:29happiness band name is somewhat similar
0:58:33to them occasionally rainbow goodtime
0:58:35Charlie happiness band and one of their
0:58:40elements in addition to several other
0:58:42elements there psychedelic music was
0:58:45that one of the members of the band was
0:58:47sort of like des from the happy mondays
0:58:50or there was another band that had that
0:58:53hazel also had a dancer who is just a
0:58:56member of the band
0:58:57yeah but this band had a painter it was
0:59:01a member of the band boy and she painted
0:59:04throughout the show and we're talking
0:59:06about a 45-minute show but made multiple
0:59:09works of art during that time so it was
0:59:11just sort of up there throwing paint and
0:59:13canvas not literally Jackson Pollock and
0:59:16she had brushes but she was like making
0:59:18art is very very kinetic kinetic art
0:59:22related to it wasn't like I'm making art
0:59:25about the music it is i am a member of
0:59:28this art troupe which is making music
0:59:32and also visual arts and it was
0:59:36interesting to watch and at the time
0:59:39like a little bit little bit of a of a
0:59:44of a line somewhere between like is this
0:59:46a gimmick or is this the expression of
0:59:49these people who really maybe all grew
0:59:53up together living in a tree house and
0:59:55maybe they're all brother and sister LOL
0:59:58ok and also kind of feels
0:59:58ok and also kind of feels
1:00:00like something from the mid late sixties
1:00:03late sixties early seventies right it
1:00:05seems like something where you would you
1:00:07would you calm you would all get
1:00:08together and one person would make soup
1:00:10and the other one play the tambourine
1:00:11about it and then somebody would have
1:00:13like an interpretive dance and this guy
1:00:14over here
1:00:15oh and it has no soon and somebody the
1:00:20other day on the internet said that we
1:00:22were a show with a bunch of callbacks in
1:00:24it huh
1:00:25and I was like you know there was a time
1:00:26when I didn't I was very contemptuous of
1:00:29shows that had callbacks
1:00:30yeah it seemed seem lazy but then I
1:00:32realized we do have callbacks and you
1:00:36know go stuff yourself
1:00:37yeah sit on it yeah my cousin our party
1:00:39after nose with a rubber hose
1:00:41yeah Boston Mass go to 134 stifling like
1:00:44how do you like about them apples
1:00:46that's right that's probably the 10,000
1:00:48time i said them apples
1:00:50in any case indicate the thing is here's
1:00:55the thing here's the thing about things
1:00:57and so yeah right it felt like I mean
1:01:01the grateful dead in the early days the
1:01:04people that were doing and i think it's
1:01:05a it's a person whose name is well known
1:01:07within the within these scenes who sort
1:01:10of started doing those oil-based light
1:01:13shows
1:01:14oh yeah sure like Fred look for the
1:01:15electrical a NASA test stuff
1:01:18yeah where they had you know they had
1:01:19they had overhead projector they would
1:01:21do that we think they did that at the
1:01:22Timothy Leary shows here in San
1:01:24Francisco
1:01:25I'm sure they did you know where you
1:01:27know you're dropping will colored oil on
1:01:29the screen and it's making lobe lobular
1:01:31stuff going around and I think that it
1:01:33was at the time while like considered a
1:01:37crucial part of the performance because
1:01:41i don't know if you've ever seen a
1:01:42picture of the grateful dead but looking
1:01:46at them isn't really i mean like they're
1:01:49not like only expand
1:01:51well FML little drummer is kind of
1:01:54good-looking which one
1:01:56yeah the regular guy owned or Joe normal
1:01:59oh yeah sure Bob where he's not he's not
1:02:01handsome person right but where is the
1:02:04handsomest member of the grateful dead
1:02:05but there's always been something in
1:02:07this
1:02:08give up to i think the MIT know the
1:02:09names of up to three people in the
1:02:10Grateful Dead kreutzman mm I got to go
1:02:14Papa Garcia got Jerry Garcia click on
1:02:16daddy where they callin ya daddy bear
1:02:18the brunt midland was the keyboard
1:02:20player for a long time and I got
1:02:21together with directly a pigpen from a
1:02:23clear case but he died also get popped
1:02:25prob Bob Weir is Tiger get Phil lashed
1:02:30on the world's greatest bass player feel
1:02:31less who will let you don't you ever
1:02:34listen to a phil lesh baseline now I
1:02:35don't know but they thought do to do
1:02:38video game do right
1:02:41that's like that's an example of the
1:02:43rare occasions when a phil lesh baseline
1:02:46is not a trip through the 408 both on
1:02:50the second fret supervillain well
1:02:52located the old well she's just so he's
1:02:55just rolling through the tundra I like a
1:02:58baseline yeah and that and those bass
1:03:00lines are very imaginative he's lucky
1:03:02he's quite an exceptional musician
1:03:04whereas a lot of the time i don't know
1:03:07you know like as I was saying from the
1:03:09early days to the very most recent days
1:03:12Bob we're obviously odd man out in that
1:03:16band strangely youthful looking
1:03:19strangely younger than everyone else
1:03:21yeah what's bob doing to watching the
1:03:24dead you're like what's bob doing
1:03:26yeah he's playing parts he's playing
1:03:29parts the whole time but what's he doing
1:03:31really any then the songs he sings are
1:03:34are all very distinctive he's had his
1:03:37share of of Grateful Dead standards but
1:03:41you also sort of crave Gerry's voice I
1:03:45mean like you listening the tunes you're
1:03:47like that was good let's get back to
1:03:49Jerry let's look Jerry is good you do
1:03:51you think that some people are Bob
1:03:52people and some people grant people
1:03:54well I don't let people about people
1:03:57yeah that's what it is
1:03:58I mean most people are Bob people there
1:04:00are some grant has is and everybody are
1:04:02certain grant songs everybody likes and
1:04:03I know you're not dumping mixmeister do
1:04:05but like there's lots of bands that are
1:04:07like that i mean you take something like
1:04:08that particular band like I I wouldn't
1:04:11have Rick Danko to sing every song but
1:04:13the ones he does things like I find
1:04:15really really wonderful moving
1:04:16yeah they get Robertson sometimes
1:04:18pretends to be singing when it's not
1:04:19I think robbie robertson I don't think
1:04:22can sing because a well no way he didn't
1:04:26do last great American whale that was
1:04:27Lou Reed's late period who was rather
1:04:31frequently levon Helm everything about
1:04:33Robbie's eighties hit remember Robbie
1:04:35eighties hell right he did have a he had
1:04:38on Hanley era like a 1985 shit he must
1:04:41have been writing for soundtracks I
1:04:43think
1:04:43yep I and then he he got he got one of
1:04:46those remember in the eighties this was
1:04:48the amazing thing about the eighties
1:04:49yeah there was a market for middle-aged
1:04:55musicians having not just like a
1:04:59sculpture career but here they all come
1:05:02back right like Peter Gabriel so so may
1:05:05need well again but a lot of them like
1:05:06your EEG look at John wait John Waite
1:05:10have been in the babies wasn't the
1:05:11babies
1:05:12oh just wait hold on wait in i don't
1:05:16know if i go back that far which only
1:05:18John
1:05:19and wait accumulated that's in the WA
1:05:22ite man is Anita had that he was he got
1:05:25a new wave at a certain point i'm
1:05:29missing you missing you I ain't missing
1:05:31you and all you miss you know I mean I I
1:05:34tried to write in here Robbie Robertson
1:05:36eighties hit to you know to do a little
1:05:39bit of that Merlin Mann thing where i'm
1:05:41like i'm going to get a ticket be picky
1:05:43during during a thing where i'm also
1:05:45talking
1:05:45yes just amazing that you do sorry but i
1:05:48but I accidentally miss Rhoda because i
1:05:51don't have my glasses on and I wrote
1:05:52robbie robertson eighties hot-rodding
1:05:56Robertson eighties feet
1:05:58Robbie Robertson eighties net worth I
1:06:01got some very strange yeah Robbie
1:06:03Robertson wife height i got this amazing
1:06:05thing that's right
1:06:07white as another one if you did not type
1:06:10of summer is John running it's like John
1:06:13Roderick wife was like third down the
1:06:15line was cooling man
1:06:17it turns out nobody turns out that's
1:06:19just eric carmen that's another one but
1:06:21I robbie robertson hot i suggest you do
1:06:23because there are a lot of websites of
1:06:25people who are saying out some point
1:06:28like Robbie Robbins in the eighties was
1:06:29hot
1:06:30yeah but the hit was somewhere down that
1:06:33crazy river crazy i don't think i know
1:06:36that at all
1:06:37and well you know I suggest you take a
1:06:39look at the at the music video because
1:06:41it is it is mid eighties and and and it
1:06:44is characterized I i think well let's
1:06:48let's just say if our thesis is that
1:06:49Robbie Robertson can't seem his eighties
1:06:52it somewhere just like that's it doesn't
1:06:54sing I feel like I have a gift when I
1:06:56can sometimes tell when someone is
1:06:58pretending to sing there's a friend of
1:06:59mine in a band in Tallahassee and I i'm
1:07:02pretty sure he was fake backup singing
1:07:04and I was like I have a gift for knowing
1:07:08when somebody's just mouthing and we're
1:07:09doing a a top of the pops
1:07:11well there's a thing that I learned from
1:07:14shawn nelson like I've learned a lot of
1:07:16things from shawn nelson as you know and
1:07:18this is one of the things i learned from
1:07:20him
1:07:20which is if you are lip syncing your
1:07:23song while making a music video you have
1:07:27to sing you have to actually sing even
1:07:31if you're not being even if you're so
1:07:33fascinating to me this this already
1:07:35makes sense to me this feels like an
1:07:36Oliver Sacks think we're using a
1:07:38different part of your brain to to
1:07:40lip-synch vs as against the different
1:07:42part of your brain to actually singing
1:07:43even if they're not recording the audio
1:07:44i bet it looks different looks
1:07:46completely different so if you look at
1:07:48the music video for the decemberists 16
1:07:51military wives
1:07:52mm which i recommend you look at because
1:07:54i have a cameo role in the music video
1:07:57of 16 military wives but that's not the
1:08:00one where the teacher that's not the
1:08:01west/andersen one that is the one that
1:08:02I'm not sure of his line
1:08:04yeah the west/andersen themed music a
1:08:07hell of a beard in that one
1:08:08yeah right that was that was during the
1:08:10like I don't give a fuck era the first
1:08:12one
1:08:12no not the first one not anywhere close
1:08:14earlier ones maybe it was well let's
1:08:16just say it was one of the mid-2000s
1:08:18where I had lost my way I had I had made
1:08:21to be ultimatum EP but never released it
1:08:24and I was just laying around all day
1:08:26writing screens and then the December
1:08:30likely be in a music video i was like
1:08:31huh
1:08:33all right but you'll notice in that
1:08:36music video
1:08:37colin Meloy is lip-syncing rather than
1:08:40the singing and you feel like you can
1:08:41really tell you can tell you can tell
1:08:43that it just doesn't quite it's not that
1:08:45it doesn't line up a totally lines up it
1:08:47just doesn't look real
1:08:49it's this thing that you're saying it
1:08:50does it looks fake but if you are
1:08:52singing if you're actually singing your
1:08:54tune it looks right you you you have to
1:08:58do it and then once you've seen it you
1:08:59can't unsee it might be cuz loan
1:09:03I'm really think about this all day now
1:09:04and Sean came to this discovery i think
1:09:08by making music videos and you know one
1:09:11of his music videos maybe was I think
1:09:14one of them was actually directed by
1:09:16john Flansburg like before any of us
1:09:20knew him and was his friend he was going
1:09:22through a phase where it was like I'm
1:09:24directing music videos now what they did
1:09:27just receive a call from John friends
1:09:28right
1:09:28hey Justin I'm gonna be directing this
1:09:30video well i think it was the heat said
1:09:31to his manager like you know I'd get
1:09:33my name out there i'm doing music videos
1:09:34and I think he did some prominent and I
1:09:38think one of them might have been
1:09:39directed by ric ocasek or something you
1:09:41know like Harvey danger had had the
1:09:43money the major label money to get these
1:09:45big name people to direct the music but
1:09:49so Sean had this inside or either
1:09:50someone told him this or he realized it
1:09:52himself by watching himself lip sync and
1:09:56yeah it's transformative and so when you
1:09:59see somebody who's not making sound it's
1:10:02you can tell it now you go back and look
1:10:04at the top of the pops videos from the
1:10:06sixties and some of them like adultery
1:10:10always singing at the top of his lungs
1:10:12right doll trees not ever lip-syncing
1:10:14but a lot of those people like you know
1:10:16a marc bolan or whatever they're just
1:10:19they're just moving their lips right
1:10:21it's hilarious
1:10:23oh I enjoy watching Top of the Pops
1:10:27because it's still fun to just see
1:10:29whoever like early performances by bands
1:10:32you like it's still fun but but but
1:10:34you're going down the old grey whistle
1:10:35test rabbit huh oh my god there's so
1:10:39much a meat-like bands that you just
1:10:41don't think about today like I mean like
1:10:44that some of the performances by like
1:10:46dire straits so good on them while the
1:10:51bee gees I just I just tweeted if you
1:10:56can believe it you
1:10:58yeah a link to an early Bee Gees not
1:11:03early Bee Gees right because the early
1:11:04Bee Gees is from the late sixties like
1:11:06they were very British Invasion yeah
1:11:08they had a hit or likely started at Joe
1:11:11that and also with mining disaster and
1:11:15the mind is an island but it was
1:11:17Waterloo station but there were they had
1:11:18a big hit that well all I got the
1:11:20Massachusetts massive the Sun that's
1:11:24just that's the one that's going really
1:11:27good song big hit in the late sixties
1:11:30and then they had a then we kind of you
1:11:32know went dark for a little bit yeah
1:11:34then came back in the mid-70s well they
1:11:36started you get stuff like Jai I think
1:11:38I've talking was a breakthrough because
1:11:40that's when the very first volume if
1:11:42they got into the funky stuff but also
1:11:43its when Barry started singing falsetto
1:11:46which everybody that was super weird at
1:11:48the time because they were thought of as
1:11:50being like the hollies they were thought
1:11:51of as a vocal supergroup like why is the
1:11:53lead singer in diagonal fees lead singer
1:11:55but why is the one guy singing falsetto
1:11:57now that's so strange
1:11:58hmm falsetto right which was what I mean
1:12:01that I'm saying is what they were well
1:12:02known for to us where you know some of
1:12:04our age you think the BG z Saturday
1:12:06Night Fever was the biggest album of all
1:12:08time
1:12:09big big butt but like you know that was
1:12:11that was really strange to people who
1:12:13thought of them as being this like how
1:12:15would you describe them of not full but
1:12:17like a pop-up british pop act
1:12:19yep yep and oh and you know the thing
1:12:22that I the thing that I tweeted was not
1:12:24old grey whistle test it was the
1:12:26midnight special about how we show and
1:12:29those some of that midnight special
1:12:30stuff like if you go watch heart do
1:12:33barracuda live on the midnight special
1:12:35yeah that's right rubber pretty
1:12:37wonderfully rough like there's a very
1:12:38live feeling 22 that like a cheap trick
1:12:41kind of thing like shows but you really
1:12:44see how good those bands i know how to
1:12:46accomplish that like put together they
1:12:48were there's no backing tracks then
1:12:50rolling tape there's not a metronome
1:12:52they're just going for like these are
1:12:54this is how bands were they were good
1:12:56but um but yeah like like I think a lot
1:13:00of us post Saturday Night Fever we got
1:13:05that bee gees Greatest Hits record and
1:13:09and think of all of that music is being
1:13:11sort of a disco but what's cool about
1:13:15the bee gees is they have that greatest
1:13:17hits and the music did all sound like a
1:13:20continuous sort of bee gees experience
1:13:22and not about what that felt like well
1:13:24this is their weird country phase or
1:13:26this was their weird like art metal
1:13:29phase right didn't do like trans they
1:13:32didn't like those other stage but they
1:13:34better but a lot of those tunes like how
1:13:37can you mend a broken heart whore
1:13:39famously nights on Broadway
1:13:42um that's not from Saturday Night Fever
1:13:45that's way before it
1:13:47yeah and if you go on Midnight Special
1:13:49and watch their version of nights on
1:13:52Broadway
1:13:53yes that's like two years before 7i
1:13:56favor and realize yeah you realize a
1:13:58couple of things one Robin Gibb is
1:14:01actually the because during the doing
1:14:05the disco years Robin and Maurice just
1:14:08seems like the other guys
1:14:09yeah the other guys like Robyn rule not
1:14:11so much Morris but Robin was the star
1:14:14for some of the early ones the
1:14:16funny-looking one that mean connect i
1:14:18sing so you want two nights on broadway
1:14:20on now I just wanna watch beaches videos
1:14:22all day so he so first of all Robin is
1:14:24beautiful at the time not the
1:14:26weird-looking one but somehow like the
1:14:29Charmed in the light one so super
1:14:31beautiful
1:14:32he's singing the really high parts he's
1:14:35actually standing there with no
1:14:36instrument one finger in his very
1:14:38naturally had a as the three of them go
1:14:41the lower voice he was like the not fair
1:14:43to me but he had the lower voice your
1:14:45blower of the three and cracking cells
1:14:47yeah and then buries actually playing
1:14:49the guitar rhythm guitar he's actually
1:14:50setting the whole tone and Maurice is
1:14:53playing a very funky bassline Wow and
1:14:57also singing like the third part and so
1:14:59you walk away from me going ok that's
1:15:01really good songwriting first of all
1:15:03nights on Broadway is a good song
1:15:05great i'm just sitting here purple link
1:15:07so i have watched them do this the
1:15:08midnight special nights on Broadway 1975
1:15:11so i have watched this before
1:15:12yeah and well I suggest you watch again
1:15:15and uh and also they're just a great
1:15:17band like there's no there's nobody on
1:15:19stage with them that doesn't need to be
1:15:21there and there and it's a function so
1:15:25yeah there's a lot I mean I spent a lot
1:15:27of time down those rabbit holes because
1:15:29I'm always intrigued because you go to a
1:15:30show now and everybody's running tracks
1:15:33and everybody's hiding behind a lot of a
1:15:38lot of different sort of screams of
1:15:42production and the only people that
1:15:44aren't really are playing you know like
1:15:48cut very consciously playing strip down
1:15:52rock and roll right like it's not like
1:15:54the white stripes ever ran tracks i
1:15:56don't think
1:15:58but that was their things just like
1:15:59here's our parts around and also to also
1:16:02to keep in mind I'm thinking now of that
1:16:06Ron Howard did that Beatles days a week
1:16:09things on hulu recently it was actually
1:16:11very depressing to watch so depressing
1:16:14because it's just basically about the
1:16:16sad period of the Beatles were they
1:16:17suddenly became unexpectedly popular
1:16:19they all became very unhappy and their
1:16:20live shows
1:16:21I had no idea what I'm you know you
1:16:23always hear about all their drowned out
1:16:24of Shea Stadium what a shitshow what a
1:16:26dangerous dangerous every one of these
1:16:28events people were getting hurt like it
1:16:30was really really bad but like they had
1:16:33to go and be gamers there's they could
1:16:35not hear themselves and i mean the the
1:16:36conventional wisdom about cream in
1:16:38particular what cream was the first band
1:16:40like figured out how to really get the
1:16:41PA thing right but even going into the
1:16:43seventies eighties you could not count
1:16:45on hearing yourself on a monitor
1:16:46there's a who you know they think I
1:16:48think a marshal whatever it was name of
1:16:52Bill Marshall bob marshall i remember
1:16:54his name but I'm but I'm not remembering
1:16:56Marshall Marshall amplifier Marshall
1:16:57yeah Tony Marshall Oh Tony marshal of
1:16:59course english models
1:17:01yeah from the from the marshal Marshall
1:17:02Marshall Burdine but yeah that's right a
1:17:05marshal Bubba patois Marshall yeah I'll
1:17:09take some pain my uh so Marshall became
1:17:14I I think Marshall Johnson's that's I
1:17:17think the who went to him and said
1:17:19listen we need bigger amplifiers and he
1:17:22built the first hundred one amplifier
1:17:24for the who just because they said that
1:17:28we you know we're supporting wasn't
1:17:30Peter I want man
1:17:31yeah well uh i wad I think he started
1:17:35using hi wats little moo maybe later
1:17:38maybe earlier but Marshall Marshall
1:17:40definitely i may be getting this wrong
1:17:43but I'm nobody was just and I'm thinking
1:17:45in particular like you could play loud
1:17:48but it was very difficult for it to be
1:17:50clear i'm more into the late sixties
1:17:53this is what i don't understand because
1:17:54if you watch those beetles those early
1:17:56Beatles things there are no monitors now
1:17:59the whole thought technology of just
1:18:01turning an amp 10 days like an
1:18:03underground stone room like you look at
1:18:06the cavern club and it's basically a
1:18:08cave
1:18:08they're playing and imagine that the
1:18:10acoustics of that room
1:18:11well but I mean that's just the thing
1:18:13where you set your shit up so that you
1:18:16can hear yourself but Shea Stadium where
1:18:18you're playing and the only feedback
1:18:20you're getting is from the sound of the
1:18:23main PA or the sound of like I think
1:18:25them i think the music that was heard by
1:18:28the people in Upper shea stadium was
1:18:30coming through the announcers this
1:18:32planet is sort of like your situation
1:18:34opening the mall where like a monitor
1:18:36that's your hearing in adelaide way is
1:18:39way worse than no monitor at all
1:18:40thousand times worse said that I told
1:18:42you didn't I about Jonathan Colton's
1:18:44first time he played at pax here in
1:18:47seattle where for whatever reason
1:18:50apparently people giving keynote
1:18:52speeches or video game speeches I don't
1:18:56want to dive into that morass who up but
1:18:59don't look that up on your YouTube but
1:19:01it's it's for I don't know why but I've
1:19:04seen this subsequently but there are
1:19:06video monitors at the foot of the stage
1:19:09projecting back-to-back unto you
1:19:13your own performance I don't know if I'd
1:19:16like that at all
1:19:17I've seen this now multiple times well
1:19:19so Colton playing the show had these
1:19:22giant video video monitors at the foot
1:19:24of the stage playing back his own
1:19:26performance with a one-second delay so
1:19:30so he's not not sound but just visual
1:19:34and he's up there like hey here's my
1:19:36zombie song and and he's eq cannot watch
1:19:40it right it's right at your feet and
1:19:41it's like any television that's on your
1:19:43gonna watch because it's you know you
1:19:45know what it is LOL yeah i mean if it's
1:19:47visible yeah yeah it's the it's the drug
1:19:50of the of the youth right i mean
1:19:51television is the electronic little
1:19:53skill scott-heron sure television drug
1:19:56the nation so he huh
1:19:58television yeah television television
1:20:04television
1:20:06I'm not going to Arizona talking the
1:20:08nation so iCarly sun city and that was
1:20:11that I think that was before Colton felt
1:20:13like he had enough a a onstage time to
1:20:18demand what he wanted
1:20:20yeah sure so he was like kind of how he
1:20:22rolls it's not how he rolls but he could
1:20:24have said hey can you turn these off and
1:20:26it would have been super gentle and they
1:20:27would have turned them off right or he
1:20:29could have gotten down as I would have
1:20:31done and just unplug them without asking
1:20:32anybody but you have to think of that
1:20:35and I think they had to they had to
1:20:38think of monitors it wasn't obvious but
1:20:42when we were first starting out when I
1:20:43was first starting out as a band and we
1:20:45would show up at a thing and our amps
1:20:47were too big because we were we were
1:20:49coming from that school like well you
1:20:51need a full stack I mean we're playing
1:20:53for a flame 425 people whom we
1:20:55definitely need eight speakers /
1:20:58musician powered by a hundred and
1:21:00twenty-one amplifiers or your bass amp
1:21:02three hundred waters your friend noise
1:21:04my monitor
1:21:05yeah how is there a way that we can
1:21:07increase the like excruciating high-end
1:21:10like a little razor sharp i and my
1:21:13guitar maybe I got to mesa boogie triple
1:21:16rectifiers and took all of the you know
1:21:20just just posted the mids and highs and
1:21:23took all the base and all just you know
1:21:24just made my made the graphic EQ just a
1:21:28straight 45-degree angle up that's
1:21:31that's a good luck
1:21:32now that's nice let's get the next part
1:21:33right it's like it's on a nice selection
1:21:36yeah it would be like that scene in
1:21:38there in the tom cruise movie a risky
1:21:41business where he slams all the eq
1:21:44straight up right
1:21:45the parametric equations exercise a lot
1:21:48of people crazy to watch it seemed like
1:21:49that yeah that seems really cool but
1:21:50instead of doing that just post the
1:21:52highs and just lower them the lows my
1:21:54mom when she took over when she took
1:21:56over listening to metal in our house
1:21:58when she took over the baton was passed
1:22:00your mom yeah she took over listening to
1:22:02metal in such a way that it was no
1:22:04longer possible for me to listen to
1:22:05metal because i'm not going to be down
1:22:06in my room listening to metal why my mom
1:22:08is listening technically to better metal
1:22:11on a better stereo in her own room
1:22:12laissez-faire that just feels like what
1:22:14what are you this is you are robbing me
1:22:17of my childhood but she didn't care and
1:22:20she had an EQ on her own stereo which I
1:22:23did not have online
1:22:24and she just boosted the base and took
1:22:27everything I mean every frequency that
1:22:31she could above 4k I want five seasons
1:22:34of a network show up on your mom she's
1:22:36just you just put it all down so you
1:22:38hear from her room why would Real Black
1:22:41Sabbath room forever and then 0 0 0 just
1:22:44barely like faintest faintest robert
1:22:47plant that you could imagine
1:22:48uh-huh you like a homeopathic doses per
1:22:52click
1:22:57she's just like how can i get that
1:23:00annoying sound out of my speaker so uh
1:23:04what I what I learned early on was that
1:23:07we just carried an extra amp which was
1:23:10like a pv bass amp amp that none of us
1:23:14really wanted one of those amps that's
1:23:16just hanging around your practice studio
1:23:18they're like where's that damn come from
1:23:20and at first if you ask that question
1:23:23early enough like somebody in your
1:23:26organization will say oh that's that pv
1:23:28bass amp that is that I got from my
1:23:30older brother or my brother's friend and
1:23:33I just needed a place to store because
1:23:35I'd forgotten amp right but if you ask
1:23:38that question after it's been there for
1:23:39six months it was what's the story with
1:23:41this amp it's already too late let the
1:23:43memory how it got here some ring exactly
1:23:46but so we took one of those amps to
1:23:49every show and if the PA was not capable
1:23:53of giving you monitor back you just take
1:23:55a quarter inch out and stick it into the
1:23:58front of this even happen mostly vocals
1:24:00yeah and you just put all the vocals and
1:24:03then you set it down on the basically on
1:24:06the floor in front of you with a
1:24:07cinderblock propping it up there's your
1:24:09there's your vocals
1:24:11I mean it and we never played a room and
1:24:13we were loud we were so much louder than
1:24:15you need to be never played a room where
1:24:17you couldn't hear your vocals if you had
1:24:19a pv base and pointed at your face so I
1:24:23don't understand how that wasn't a
1:24:26technology that was available if you if
1:24:27you took an early tweed fender twin and
1:24:31put it at the feet of John lemon and ran
1:24:33a quarter inch into it with his vocals
1:24:36in
1:24:36a really good question that's a very
1:24:38good question i I'm gonna guess knowing
1:24:40nothing about this i'm gonna guess it
1:24:41has something to do with feedback
1:24:43well yeah but you can control that too i
1:24:46mean even with the technology that they
1:24:48had at the time they would have been
1:24:50able to at least give him some
1:24:52augmentation and at Shea Stadium
1:24:56I mean they're playing through AC
1:24:59thirties I mean you couldn't hear that
1:25:01amp in the first row of it so that had
1:25:04the only thing that people in the stands
1:25:06were hearing was mic'd instruments so
1:25:09their amps actually didn't need to be
1:25:11that loud they are there onstage volume
1:25:13could have been very manageable it
1:25:15would've been if you had just taken some
1:25:18amps and put them at their feet and I
1:25:21just think it was a thing hadn't
1:25:22occurred to them
1:25:23wait maybe maybe we had to you know John
1:25:26Vanderslice hadn't come along would have
1:25:27had to invent him that's a man who knows
1:25:30how to set up a room we did invent John
1:25:32pants is that right that that
1:25:33responsibility is on us we we bear that
1:25:36we bear the cost heavy hangs the eating
1:25:39thing has me in a room and his shows I
1:25:40school with the hottest shows i was just
1:25:42always so amazed with how it sounded it
1:25:46wasn't gonna put this is just exquisite
1:25:49it wasn't too loud you can hear every
1:25:50single note like he really knew like
1:25:52this particular Club this is how to set
1:25:54it up for this room and I wish that
1:25:56everybody had like a John Vanderslice in
1:25:58their life to like make make it sound
1:26:01right for the room and I know that's
1:26:02different for every band but i think he
1:26:04given what he did and they like how how
1:26:06much you value d exquisite subtle sounds
1:26:09and what he was making you know what I
1:26:11mean
1:26:11oh I do because yes I've been on tour
1:26:14with him and also on tour with a lot of
1:26:17other people can spot your trailer
1:26:18included
1:26:19that's right including people know this
1:26:22is strange his trailer he would kill
1:26:25trailer he is just trying to weasel out
1:26:29of paying me the money that I was
1:26:31overdriving to go back to that sometime
1:26:34that was I think we talked about this
1:26:35but all poor sean i'm not sure did we
1:26:37talk about it
1:26:38oh no I'm pretty sure we did because
1:26:43that's that's got to be up there with
1:26:44the north face story
1:26:45oh boy i know that we've talked about it
1:26:48thousand times I just don't know I just
1:26:50didn't know that he's ready to see a
1:26:51side of you that I had not seen I was
1:26:53not ready to see that side of him that I
1:26:55had not seen well sure and I mean I
1:26:57think at the time there was quite a
1:26:59pounding from the from the audience
1:27:01which was what they were five of us
1:27:04there in this abandoned parking lot like
1:27:06Michael Sean that's right now they're
1:27:08forcin you and Madeline was there too
1:27:11yeah
1:27:11oh man was there to do ya and
1:27:13vanderslice and I going back and forth
1:27:15like well i guess i'm going to take this
1:27:16trailer and I'm gonna just drive it into
1:27:17the ocean eyeball-to-eyeball anybody's
1:27:20it was it was barely civil well in
1:27:24what's crazy is he promised me stop to
1:27:26get out of that negotiation that he's
1:27:28been removed on later but I'm not here
1:27:30to talk and hear settle scores let's
1:27:32just say time travel is lonely I think
1:27:34we can all agree on time travel you know
1:27:36vanderslice that was the first time I
1:27:38ever saw a live show where someone was
1:27:41playing tracks it was uh yeah well he
1:27:46made the decision feeling blue billions
1:27:48of the pool while
1:27:50yeah he had that stuff running through
1:27:51the PA and I had never seen it before
1:27:53and you know he wasn't he was an early
1:27:55adopter vanderslice was always an early
1:27:58adopter not just of technology and sound
1:28:01but also you remember his drummer that
1:28:03did the Rising Sun symbol changes you
1:28:08saw those shows right i don't remember
1:28:09that where he hired a drummer from
1:28:11somewhere who was one of those you
1:28:13you've seen the youtube video of the
1:28:15drummer that's in the wrong band you
1:28:19know everything that no google a drummer
1:28:23in the wrong the wrong band
1:28:25let's not do this drummer is at the
1:28:27wrong gig
1:28:28alright yeah drama the wrong gig and
1:28:30better slice hired a drummer at the
1:28:32wrong gig style drummer who first of all
1:28:36how does the whole like playing sharp
1:28:40dressed man yeah
1:28:41oh my god this is fantastic it's ok
1:28:46sorry this is so good opener flies had a
1:28:49guy like this who was a fantastic
1:28:50drummer would be wasn't like a jokey jon
1:28:53wurster throw it in for a little bit of
1:28:55fun this guy was full-on like spin spin
1:28:57the sticks kind of guy
1:28:58this was his show I is dry
1:29:01it was set up in the center of the stage
1:29:03and vanderslice was maybe sitting in a
1:29:06chair on the side of the thing maybe not
1:29:08even in the light and he would do this
1:29:11so he's playing just big big big
1:29:13theatrical drum show and he would change
1:29:20his cymbals midsole he would be playing
1:29:25change his symbols like because he
1:29:28needed to was like breaking a string
1:29:30this was part of the bit
1:29:31yeah he he decided in his interpretation
1:29:35of the music that a certain point in the
1:29:37song he needed a different symbol then
1:29:39he could have never heard of I've never
1:29:40heard that before
1:29:41well because you never will again
1:29:42because it's it's crazy but he would
1:29:45take his symbol off the symbols and now
1:29:48the song is going on and he oh he's
1:29:51continuing to play the drums he would
1:29:55take his symbol off the symbols and
1:29:57unscrew it take it off and then hold it
1:30:00over his head in a in a gesture of the
1:30:06Sun rises in the East reaches its apex
1:30:10and sets in the west like he would hold
1:30:15the symbols as if there's some kind of a
1:30:17movement or dance component absolutely a
1:30:20dance component the Sun would rise in
1:30:21the east set in the West this is all in
1:30:23time with the music he's a great
1:30:25musician and then another symbol would
1:30:28come out of the cymbal bag it would rise
1:30:31in the West my goodness and set in the
1:30:35east upon the cymbal stand where it
1:30:38would then be screwed down and played
1:30:39all this happening in the middle in the
1:30:43middle of time travel is love the 22 so
1:30:52very impressive work but also mean the
1:30:55first time I saw John Vanderslice he had
1:30:56a Chapman Stick player in the hall
1:30:58yes yes yes uh-huh early iteration of
1:31:01his band had a Chapman Stick player who
1:31:03English a trend behind who made Chapman
1:31:06Stick face down everson guitar that's 10
1:31:09times worse than guitar face you ever
1:31:11googled Chapman Stick faith
1:31:13if you use the internet different
1:31:15spelling right now go get six total tony
1:31:21levin is the only person I can think of
1:31:23when I think of a Chapman Stick iik
1:31:26chapman and tony levin is a professional
1:31:29enough musician that he doesn't really
1:31:30make Chapman Stick face not like
1:31:31somebody could he could he could he
1:31:34could do he he has enough bandwidth he
1:31:36could play to chapman sticks and make
1:31:37travels doing amazing god oh my gosh
1:31:41but we do use the internet in different
1:31:42ways and you know people often write a
1:31:44right little tweets to you and me even
1:31:46email sometimes sure where they say John
1:31:49Robert does not know about technology
1:31:51well or they speculate they speculate
1:31:55whether or not i dunno about technology
1:31:58and pretending not to or I just don't
1:32:01know about technology and don't know
1:32:03that I don't know
1:32:04oh that's right they got one person
1:32:05brought the dunning-kruger effect which
1:32:07I know kind of group right and what they
1:32:09don't realize is that i use the internet
1:32:11all the time to look up chat Chapman
1:32:13Stick face and I doubt that they're
1:32:15using internet that way so who knows how
1:32:17do you just sent me a music video that
1:32:19over 30 million people have seen that
1:32:21never seen or heard anything and I
1:32:24battle got more hits than David pumpkins
1:32:26you know drummer who's you know the
1:32:28wrong band watch David pumpkins have you
1:32:30seen that David pumpkins I never saw i
1:32:33missed our animals writing capybaras so
1:32:35that's true yeah you know again we got
1:32:37some nice feedback from people about the
1:32:39capybaras I think we helped a lot of
1:32:40people with that
1:32:41yeah I think we do every episode i think
1:32:43we we are definitely a harbinger for the
1:32:44future here just bringing up this whole
1:32:46issue I mean you've heard a little bit
1:32:47of a chatter about comfort animals but I
1:32:51i think we have really elevated level
1:32:54discussion about this
1:32:55well sure it's it's easy to it's easy to
1:32:58say it's easy to sit with a t-shirt
1:32:59cannon
1:33:00yeah about comfort animals but when you
1:33:02realize comfort animals are the future
1:33:04of civilization now where are you now
1:33:06which internet are you now which and
1:33:08which in turn am I on yeah right which--
1:33:11that's it that's a question we don't ask
1:33:12ourselves enough now which what which
1:33:14internet is my internet there's
1:33:16different internets yeah don't don't
1:33:17think that your internet is the same
1:33:19internet is somebody else's internet
1:33:20even somebody sitting in the same room
1:33:22as you thought about badlipreading you
1:33:23seen this too much you've seen
1:33:27you've seen Santana jams oh yeah okay
1:33:30I've seen those I've seen those what
1:33:32about trying to think of some other ones
1:33:34out what about that the hamsters are
1:33:37eating tiny food have you seen that
1:33:39hmm i think you know hamsters eating
1:33:41tiny food is just like spending a
1:33:43weekend with a man look at the burrito