Roderick on the Line

Ep. 206: "The OG Haoles"

 

  [Music] [TS]

  LOL hi John [TS]

  I'm Merlin how's it going so good so [TS]

  SuperDuper super mm-hmm a different day [TS]

  different time [TS]

  yeah right it's not it's not too early [TS]

  it's not to monday [TS]

  oh it is just what it is I'm always [TS]

  ready for you is that right huh [TS]

  that can't be true I'm treating myself [TS]

  today to add this new thing i'm doing [TS]

  called the taste of my youth when I go [TS]

  and I revisit case of my youth so right [TS]

  now I'm having a a 6 ounce can of dole [TS]

  pineapple orange juice [TS]

  mmm god is good all from concentrate [TS]

  yeah right no comes in a can see no it's [TS]

  healthy [TS]

  is that something that you you actually [TS]

  had as as you this time [TS]

  this is the my Madeline mighty is a in [TS]

  gym class in tenth grade we had a drink [TS]

  dispenser you know i got like a pop [TS]

  machine but it dispensed juice and there [TS]

  was this brain was called Bluebird [TS]

  Bluebird orange juice which I've never [TS]

  heard of anywhere else and was orange [TS]

  juice that mostly tastes like pineapple [TS]

  and I always enjoyed it but I think when [TS]

  you get the concentrate [TS]

  you know you get a lot of get a [TS]

  pineapple aspect to it well that's the [TS]

  thing what is a pineapple concentrated [TS]

  orange oh my god [TS]

  move move move I never thought of it [TS]

  that way [TS]

  yeah sure you take a bunch of orange [TS]

  well this is what God did ya oranges was [TS]

  the fourth day third day and scrunched [TS]

  it scrunch it into an armadillo he's [TS]

  goes it goes into the pineapple yeah and [TS]

  then took a cactus and stuck it in the [TS]

  armadillos but I learned so much from [TS]

  you every week [TS]

  yeah well that's the thing about science [TS]

  me mhm [TS]

  you know you don't die encounter [TS]

  pineapples like you used to [TS]

  I think pineapples like like people & [TS]

  gorilla suits quicksand I think it might [TS]

  be a thing with the seventies [TS]

  well you know in the seventies I spent a [TS]

  lot of time in hawaii as we've talked [TS]

  about probably either many times or [TS]

  Never and in hawaii in the seventies [TS]

  there were pineapple fields as far as [TS]

  the eye could see [TS]

  fields forever it was by him fields [TS]

  forever living was easy with eyes closed [TS]

  and it was like one of the great things [TS]

  about going to Hawaii it was sugar cane [TS]

  and pineapples this kind of this i mean [TS]

  their plantations but but it's a big [TS]

  part of the culture there and all of [TS]

  that stuff is gone now you go to Y in [TS]

  there no there's no sugarcane there are [TS]

  no pineapples really really because it's [TS]

  just so much cheaper to grow that stuff [TS]

  elsewhere you know in China or well I [TS]

  don't think they grow pineapples and a [TS]

  well they will but not getting enough [TS]

  they found you know dole pineapple [TS]

  conglomerate inc gbh who found enormous [TS]

  places in Central and South America i [TS]

  think in Africa probably where they just [TS]

  set out what we'll just we'll grow [TS]

  pineapples here and now those a lot of [TS]

  those fields and why are either fallow [TS]

  or I don't know I don't [TS]

  it's kinda weird to go there and not see [TS]

  that stuff and I don't even understand [TS]

  why they just didn't let the back [TS]

  pineapples grow wild although i don't [TS]

  know what wild pineapples like this is [TS]

  that this is an interesting thing it's a [TS]

  digital turns out because for a long [TS]

  time we we heard about talked about peak [TS]

  oil and we be talking about the idea [TS]

  that there would be a point when we [TS]

  would reach more than fifty percent of [TS]

  the oil that could be gotten from the [TS]

  earth and then after that point it would [TS]

  become much more cost much more [TS]

  expensive which led to a lot of [TS]

  interesting discussions I'm just [TS]

  basically paraphrasing what's-his-name [TS]

  counselor but great look but the idea [TS]

  that like this little hustler magazine [TS]

  represent our i was injured his legal [TS]

  career back on select yeah good old [TS]

  counselor Cody look with the glasses on [TS]

  the glasses on top of his head and then [TS]

  the third pair of glasses yeah the other [TS]

  glass that cool hair [TS]

  let's go look at but you know if you [TS]

  read that stuff which I found very [TS]

  absorbing in the 2,000 there's the idea [TS]

  that so well setting aside slavery so [TS]

  much of what happens in America in the [TS]

  last hundred fifty at least years is [TS]

  based on [TS]

  on incredibly cheap energy that you [TS]

  don't mean just the idea that you know [TS]

  we could not you cannot have walmart be [TS]

  walmart without ships running on you [TS]

  know relatively cheap fuel and so must [TS]

  have changed [TS]

  actually i'm reading a book about [TS]

  walmart so i kind of have walmart on the [TS]

  brain right now but that's changed now [TS]

  walmart has become extremely interested [TS]

  in environmental sustainability not [TS]

  least because it's cheaper now and but [TS]

  but then the fuel prices went down so so [TS]

  like like what happens i mean there is [TS]

  our economy going to get all wackadoodle [TS]

  just continue to be wackadoodle based on [TS]

  these kinds of prices of fuel and like [TS]

  how could you not get pineapple from a [TS]

  way that just seems weird i'm not sure [TS]

  if this question here i'm just i'm [TS]

  concerned i think that i think that the [TS]

  other factors are labor is more [TS]

  expensive in Hawaii and there's a lot [TS]

  more regulation in Hawaii because it's [TS]

  America and you know grand land is more [TS]

  expensive and got increasingly more [TS]

  expensive and it's just you know when [TS]

  you're talking about a multinational [TS]

  corporation that's like how do we get [TS]

  how do we make 10 million pineapples as [TS]

  cheaply as we possibly can and and if [TS]

  fuel prices are low and we can fill up a [TS]

  exxon valdez for pineapples [TS]

  that's my drinking and true when you [TS]

  know because it's already expensive to [TS]

  get pineapples from Hawaii to anywhere [TS]

  yeah it's not that much more expensive [TS]

  to get them from nicaragua or you know [TS]

  probably from Nigeria I don't know I you [TS]

  know I keep throwing these I'm look I [TS]

  know I'm looking right now he's on his [TS]

  own we're going pineapples room but what [TS]

  you need you need water you need hot you [TS]

  can have high and you needed any ground [TS]

  costa rica costa rica there are [TS]

  different beans and then Brazil as of [TS]

  2013 costa rica produces 2.7 million [TS]

  tons of pineapple a year huh lot of tons [TS]

  of pineapple yeah it looks like it is a [TS]

  pretty tight race between the [TS]

  Philippines Brazil costa rica i found a [TS]

  hawaii a I i was i was not a good match [TS]

  for a way i like the way that you [TS]

  pronounced hawaii hawaii hawaii you know [TS]

  we we west coasters for a long time you [TS]

  know we just like [TS]

  we angle sighs everything why Hawaii why [TS]

  but you you put that little extra like [TS]

  Hawaii life into the patchouli sounds [TS]

  good sounds good [TS]

  so you went to hawaii hawaii and did not [TS]

  you didn't you didn't bond with it [TS]

  well here's the thing first of all I [TS]

  think you know this about me sometimes I [TS]

  have trouble relaxing [TS]

  mhm and slightly separate from that i [TS]

  have i sometimes I'm a difficult [TS]

  acclimate er I don't always acclimate [TS]

  well or quickly like you seem like the [TS]

  kind of guy you got a bag you're on a [TS]

  plane you go somewhere and like you're [TS]

  already part of the culture here you try [TS]

  it try but like it takes me awhile to [TS]

  get into I've gotten better over the [TS]

  years but there was a time when we take [TS]

  me like three days to enjoy anything [TS]

  that wasn't being at my house [TS]

  uh-huh just shake off the like change [TS]

  yeah yeah yeah but I mean why else ye [TS]

  also i felt very very foreign not least [TS]

  because the people of Hawaii um don't [TS]

  love people coming there it's not an [TS]

  understandable it's not the warmest [TS]

  welcome and also I didn't like the food [TS]

  i couldn't get with the food i think [TS]

  you're either the kind of person it's [TS]

  like Scottish food either all about it [TS]

  you're like I can't believe this is food [TS]

  yeah I couldn't shave ice in the this [TS]

  BAM [TS]

  I but that's right up your alley oh well [TS]

  what's wonderful a about Hawaiian food [TS]

  is it really is kind of a like made out [TS]

  of the worst elements of like four [TS]

  different kinds of food right it's like [TS]

  the worst kind of japanese food and the [TS]

  worst kind of portuguese food hit the [TS]

  worst sort of american food and i love [TS]

  it right a pile of rice with breaded [TS]

  chicken [TS]

  mhm with a fried egg covered in gravy [TS]

  no you know what i should give another [TS]

  try up where I was just like this is a [TS]

  thing and they're like oh yeah it's [TS]

  called loco moco I've been that i am [TS]

  feeling loco moco mhm but Hawaii doesn't [TS]

  feel foreign to me because we went there [TS]

  a lot [TS]

  what were you why are you going there [TS]

  like remind me well because in the [TS]

  seventies the forty-ninth and fiftieth [TS]

  states had a very special relationship [TS]

  because right Alaska entered the united [TS]

  states in 1959 and hawaii in 1960 so [TS]

  they came in and I don't know in my head [TS]

  I always imagined they came in on the [TS]

  same time bill know there-there's a [TS]

  brief period where there was a where [TS]

  they made flags us flags with 49 stars [TS]

  I don't think it was for very long and [TS]

  it might we might have even been in a [TS]

  pit with in 1959 to buy but there was a [TS]

  brief period where there were the u.s. [TS]

  at 49 states [TS]

  I don't you you can double-check this [TS]

  but but uh so you know by nineteen [TS]

  seventy what both both places had been [TS]

  US states for 10 years and it was still [TS]

  very new [TS]

  it was also very exotic I mean Hawaii [TS]

  like do you think about why 50 or the [TS]

  Brady Bunch [TS]

  it was like us it was from my whole [TS]

  childhood that was the idyllic location [TS]

  Sherman my mother's entire life she all [TS]

  she ever not all she wanted but she [TS]

  really wanted to go on a vacation to [TS]

  Hawaii it was one of those things like [TS]

  that was her dream [TS]

  yeah sure you get a vacation to Hawaii [TS]

  exactly right it just just the just the [TS]

  term has all this all the smell of [TS]

  colitas rising up through the air [TS]

  I don't think they have colinas there i [TS]

  have that I've all sort of colitas yeah [TS]

  i know that's that's painful and it's [TS]

  information i'm alright thank you thanks [TS]

  for thanks for asking but when you think [TS]

  about magnum p.i that you know that's [TS]

  only 20 years after why I became a state [TS]

  well you less than that right so it's [TS]

  still very much like new new turf and so [TS]

  anyway all by way of saying that the [TS]

  alaska airlines and hawaiian airlines [TS]

  which were both sort of new ish [TS]

  newish carriers that were making a play [TS]

  to be bigger than just regional airlines [TS]

  they had this like a hundred dollar [TS]

  ticket hundred-dollar reciprocal ticket [TS]

  Anchorage to Honolulu damn and it was [TS]

  that's crazy and this understand now for [TS]

  the youngsters for the millenniums my [TS]

  name's don't know from travel it used to [TS]

  be you were not going to go anywhere for [TS]

  less than seven hundred thousand dollars [TS]

  he's welfare expensive to fly it was [TS]

  ended up in Alaska was you know it's [TS]

  such a different animal and it was hard [TS]

  to know like what [TS]

  because alaska airlines had these things [TS]

  a hundred-dollar tickets that were the [TS]

  river they had a hundred dollar ticket [TS]

  at one point when I graduate from high [TS]

  school ask airlines gave every scene [TS]

  every graduating senior in Alaska a free [TS]

  ticket to anywhere in Alaska chimney and [TS]

  so you could use this ticket to go visit [TS]

  somewhere like a barrow or Unalakleet or [TS]

  something where you would never [TS]

  otherwise go right you're not going to [TS]

  go to Unalakleet for probably as part of [TS]

  your job but if you got a free ticket [TS]

  why not go there and so all I left [TS]

  Alaska immediately after graduating and [TS]

  I didn't come back until after my free [TS]

  ticket to anywhere in Alaska had expired [TS]

  but all of my friends my high school [TS]

  friends all got together and flew to [TS]

  Kodiak which is like okay that's not [TS]

  exactly the most exotic place to go [TS]

  Kodiak you find out where they were they [TS]

  make the snuff it [TS]

  well you write or find out where they [TS]

  use the snow and they went down to [TS]

  Kodiak and they already had some big [TS]

  hotel room not nice hotel room I mean [TS]

  there i don't think there are any nice [TS]

  hotel rooms and Cody actually they got [TS]

  hotel rooms in some shitty hotel and [TS]

  they SAT and drank here you know drink [TS]

  like a keystone and inept Keystone then [TS]

  it would have been [TS]

  it would have been Stroh's Frank Stroh's [TS]

  in their old shitty hotel room wall [TS]

  trained outside for three days and then [TS]

  they flew home and I was like that was a [TS]

  waste and they were like yeah it was a [TS]

  waste like they should have gone [TS]

  it could have gone anywhere you know [TS]

  gnome yeah how many times you gonna say [TS]

  in your life you want to know I don't [TS]

  know I mean maybe maybe two maybe [TS]

  yeah 22 plus probably zero but maybe two [TS]

  I don't think i'm gonna say seven but we [TS]

  went to hawaii all the time because of [TS]

  this hundred dollar ticket and it was a [TS]

  direct flight Anchorage Honolulu so it's [TS]

  just like you didn't even have to go to [TS]

  America damn and Hawaiians came to [TS]

  Alaska and at the time like a Waikiki [TS]

  still had most of the stuff on Waikiki [TS]

  was still like grass roof like like you [TS]

  know like little little shacks with no [TS]

  windows that were bars and they had [TS]

  those little Tiki lanterns out front you [TS]

  know the streets kind of if you want if [TS]

  you want five or six blocks off of [TS]

  waikiki you know the streets would kind [TS]

  of dirt [TS]

  I mean it was very still just like felt [TS]

  like a small town they're obviously [TS]

  there were no the royal hawaiian was [TS]

  there they were that big Hilton was [TS]

  there there were some hotels along the [TS]

  strip but if you got if you got down the [TS]

  road a little ways it was just beer you [TS]

  know it was so hawaii and so chill and [TS]

  at that point there wasn't that [TS]

  hostility to outsiders because it was [TS]

  you know outsiders were sort of [TS]

  contained you know it was like yeah if [TS]

  you came to why you went to hear but you [TS]

  didn't go if you we went to my way back [TS]

  then and it was now it was nothing [TS]

  because all is all if memory serves it [TS]

  was always Honolulu and Waikiki and now [TS]

  he was like even in the late seventies [TS]

  now he was the hidden gem like if you [TS]

  really want to go to Hawaii gotta go to [TS]

  Malik's nobody threw into yet the [TS]

  streets were dirt for most of most of it [TS]

  on Maui had little little towns right [TS]

  you drive in and it's just a little it's [TS]

  like a little town kind of carved [TS]

  out of the out of the wild and oh my god [TS]

  it felt like a it felt like it was it [TS]

  was it was a paradisiacal who and now [TS]

  you know me as a constant traffic jam [TS]

  it's still incredible don't get me wrong [TS]

  but it's a traffic jam [TS]

  that's why we went to we went to Kauai [TS]

  Hawaii yeah which seems like there's [TS]

  like a few outposts around the rim and [TS]

  it's been a lot of land [TS]

  yeah and I think probably your [TS]

  experience of of Native Hawaiians being [TS]

  like less than aloha about you don't get [TS]

  me wrong now I mean in the same position [TS]

  I would feel the same way [TS]

  well you know who knows but they but [TS]

  they probably now increasingly I mean [TS]

  everybody there feels encroached upon [TS]

  even the you know even the Howley's that [TS]

  have been there 15 years feel like [TS]

  they're the OG Holly's and they don't [TS]

  want a new Howley's that's just the you [TS]

  know that's true very this is true at as [TS]

  i sit and think about it [TS]

  do I know a person that lives anywhere [TS]

  in the world who isn't mad about new [TS]

  people coming [TS]

  no no decisions have been there for a [TS]

  couple nights you're entitled to talk [TS]

  about how things are changing [TS]

  I'm trying to think I read something the [TS]

  other day oh it was an article about New [TS]

  Zealand saying that there were all these [TS]

  towns in New Zealand that were really [TS]

  encouraging people to move there and I [TS]

  think that they are like the you know [TS]

  the show old sheep farming towns kinda [TS]

  like I think I feel like there are towns [TS]

  in Nebraska and Kansas that everyone all [TS]

  the young people have moved away and i'm [TS]

  not entirely sure whether the residents [TS]

  of those towns are encouraging people to [TS]

  move there as much as they're just [TS]

  surrendering their just like taking deep [TS]

  breaths of their oxygen machines and [TS]

  hoping that the Lord comes soon but in [TS]

  right at in New Zealand I feel like a [TS]

  lot of i read this whole article about [TS]

  like they're in currently actually like [TS]

  incentivizing people to move to these [TS]

  small towns [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  just because because they're losing you [TS]

  know and then the end and and the [TS]

  pictures of these places they seem [TS]

  idyllic but anybody that's read a real [TS]

  estate magazine knows that you can you [TS]

  can take a pretty good picture of a [TS]

  place [TS]

  sure but yeah maybe that's the future [TS]

  maybe maybe maybe maybe we should move [TS]

  to New Zealand in New Zealand flight i [TS]

  have used in the New Zealand i'm here to [TS]

  tell you it took me uh maybe 48 hours to [TS]

  seriously contemplate moving there [TS]

  did you did you go as a result of some [TS]

  sort of thing where they had some tech [TS]

  thing where they wanted you to come talk [TS]

  about their inboxes it something I did [TS]

  you go did you take all 43 folders there [TS]

  so tired attack now I went there for a a [TS]

  really cool conference and I did talk [TS]

  and I cried onstage and long people [TS]

  liked it it's kind of one of my famous [TS]

  talks and but I you know you know it's [TS]

  hard to tell until you've been somewhere [TS]

  two or three times it's hard to really [TS]

  make any kind of a saying reckoning of [TS]

  what's happening there but there are [TS]

  certain things about you you go [TS]

  somewhere you get a vibe and the vibe [TS]

  there is crazy [TS]

  I mean first I mean the one of the [TS]

  primary things is that people there are [TS]

  unknowingly and ironically friendly and [TS]

  kind unknowingly friendly and kind like [TS]

  people are nice they're not nice and [TS]

  like an annoying way there they are [TS]

  neighborly in some ways but not in like [TS]

  in-your-face way second like at like [TS]

  every cup of coffee i had there at every [TS]

  mcdonalds I had their the only thing [TS]

  that I had there was like just about the [TS]

  best of that I ever had [TS]

  it takes some fucking 20 minutes to make [TS]

  a cup of coffee and new zealand no [TS]

  maddening it's mostly copy this is what [TS]

  I got into espresso because they do the [TS]

  espresso drinks there but like the [TS]

  craftsmanship of what people do there is [TS]

  really palpable and and there's a lot of [TS]

  like the same one again this unit I like [TS]

  and I think about it [TS]

  nice people and a lot of civic pride [TS]

  that's this not annoying America is kind [TS]

  of ruin civic pride for [TS]

  a lot of countries but it's like to go [TS]

  somewhere like you're walking around [TS]

  Canada and everybody's got a papi [TS]

  because its remembrance day that's [TS]

  really nice and it's not to like you [TS]

  know have something to put on facebook [TS]

  it's because that's what people always [TS]

  do there you go there you go there and [TS]

  like you know what you get for she's the [TS]

  best she's ever gotten you know America [TS]

  has ruined civic pride for America to [TS]

  write me I used to put and I still kind [TS]

  of try like to pep civic pride and now [TS]

  she can get it sometimes you go watch go [TS]

  back to watch the video of Whitney [TS]

  Houston singing the star-spangled banner [TS]

  at that super bowl i'll still give you a [TS]

  little bit of a goose [TS]

  yeah I feel like yeah America I mean I [TS]

  say that shit I said that yesterday [TS]

  it's a great experience we're still [TS]

  trying yay american educator store [TS]

  buying we're still trying [TS]

  yeah USA but then you know and then [TS]

  somebody like an throws a can of school [TS]

  at me and then feel like I donk I don't [TS]

  you know this is what I was just saying [TS]

  that nothing to do with guns for the [TS]

  love of Christ how I know I know I know [TS]

  I I with the twitter in particular you [TS]

  know you I know you're on the facebook [TS]

  i'm not on the facebook twitter like I [TS]

  feel so inoculated because I don't go [TS]

  much outside my circle but then when I [TS]

  do I'm just I'm stunned I mean this is [TS]

  part of my brain that likes to think the [TS]

  whole like me man [TS]

  men's rights white power [TS]

  anti-immigrant that whole cluster I like [TS]

  to imagine that that is still the fringe [TS]

  I'm not persuaded that that is so much [TS]

  of the fringe as it used to be and it's [TS]

  kinda everywhere and it's awful and and [TS]

  they're like they're like some kind of [TS]

  science fiction creature where they just [TS]

  go find they find people with a good [TS]

  heart and try to try to destroy them and [TS]

  through and through school after school [TS]

  yeah I mean there's millions of millions [TS]

  and millions of people that that share [TS]

  that that cloud of ideology so much so [TS]

  that i'm i'm intrigued now that the [TS]

  liberal media if you will hurl our [TS]

  rather let me call it you know the [TS]

  intelligence of the thinkers are step [TS]

  progressive thought leaders progressive [TS]

  thought leaders are trying now [TS]

  to write think pieces and I know how you [TS]

  feel about think pieces and you know I [TS]

  feel about things I loved the think [TS]

  piece boy you know what couldn't have [TS]

  you know paper the ground with think [TS]

  pieces when I say a direction at work [TS]

  for three hours here's what I learned [TS]

  that but there are now increasingly [TS]

  those think pieces it's sort of atlantic [TS]

  magazine style long-form articles saying [TS]

  wait a minute if a hundred million [TS]

  Americans share a cosmology in which [TS]

  these ideas you know these these uh [TS]

  these ideas are like some kind of [TS]

  foundational underpinning of a worldview [TS]

  yeah i mean where it's not something [TS]

  people tolerate quietly like certain [TS]

  kinds of racism in the past things like [TS]

  that it's not just something is [TS]

  tolerated it something that helps people [TS]

  bond together people who formerly have [TS]

  seemingly nothing in common and what we [TS]

  thought of as civil discourse there are [TS]

  people who are finding common cause with [TS]

  other people that in a way it's kind of [TS]

  mind-blowing well and I think a lot of a [TS]

  lot of those cases right the what we see [TS]

  as the as the like overt deal killing [TS]

  racism implied in what in a lot of what [TS]

  gets said they see as like I rolling Lee [TS]

  unimportant small are racism that you [TS]

  should just get over because base what [TS]

  they're seeing in some of that action [TS]

  and some of those theories some of those [TS]

  philosophies is something else and a lot [TS]

  of and the liberal side stops at the [TS]

  racism wall and says whatever's on the [TS]

  other side of this i'm not interested in [TS]

  because the because the racism in [TS]

  inherent in it like blocks me from going [TS]

  further into this idea and the and the [TS]

  hundred million people who are able to [TS]

  get through that wall who live on the [TS]

  other side of that wall are like yeah [TS]

  racism racism but X or Y and there are [TS]

  so many of those so many of those [TS]

  different languages right with the the [TS]

  gun right stuff where you know we're [TS]

  from the left we have just arrived at a [TS]

  place where it's like if you speak [TS]

  positively about guns [TS]

  i I just I stopped at that fence because [TS]

  that because on the other side of that [TS]

  fence i expect to hear rationalization [TS]

  and justification for machine-gun [TS]

  killings of kids in schools and the [TS]

  hundred million people on the other side [TS]

  of that fence like yeah I got you know [TS]

  like guns symbolize and represent this [TS]

  other stuff and they just sort of I [TS]

  there's this I rolling about the things [TS]

  that matter to either side of it and [TS]

  that end I think that there is a lot of [TS]

  what we do cast one another in the most [TS]

  exaggerated possible role that we can [TS]

  think as an antagonist you know that and [TS]

  I was i I am on Facebook unfortunately [TS]

  because I because I don't know why I [TS]

  mean NEVER for your career [TS]

  it gives me as much it gives me as much [TS]

  pause as as Twitter does because you [TS]

  know I'm I don't curate either thing [TS]

  very well and so I just get this i just [TS]

  get tons of of evil all the time from [TS]

  both places and mostly the facebook evil [TS]

  is in the form of a really really really [TS]

  long essays about people's um like the [TS]

  current medical treatments not really [TS]

  evil it's just like the info and I you [TS]

  and I feel like looking at pictures of [TS]

  people's dogs on instagram is maybe the [TS]

  most people [TS]

  hmm but you can't say that because now [TS]

  i'm going to get 50 tweets from people [TS]

  of their dogs is it does sweet precious [TS]

  for babies but but I i'm on I i know a [TS]

  lot of people from high school and this [TS]

  is how the conversation always starts [TS]

  right you know a bunch of people from [TS]

  high school yeah and support Donald [TS]

  Trump and so I go over onto their [TS]

  threads and lurk i'm not i'm definitely [TS]

  not trying to argue with anybody i'm not [TS]

  really even comment [TS]

  the only if i do comment it will only be [TS]

  a law because I feel like law there [TS]

  three laws divorce the Rorschach test [TS]

  right three laws right there's the [TS]

  there's the capital L lowercase o [TS]

  lowercase L period that's that's law the [TS]

  sort of like grammatically correct law [TS]

  there's law capital all caps LOL caps [TS]

  law and then there's all work a slaw [TS]

  l.o.l law [TS]

  oh and that's almost like act well or it [TS]

  can be all three of those can be [TS]

  deployed in different ways but like I [TS]

  routinely will carry on a conversation [TS]

  with someone else where they are just [TS]

  just screaming at me and i'll reply with [TS]

  throughout the conversation all three of [TS]

  those loans right like you deploy your [TS]

  laws and then I'm like law and then at [TS]

  the enemy wall and it's fucking amazing [TS]

  law is I know there's a lot of people [TS]

  that that still have not gotten on board [TS]

  the law train for a full and the [TS]

  wrongful train kept it on the raffle [TS]

  trick but ruffle kind of went away [TS]

  didn't it [TS]

  roffle was so great for so long roll on [TS]

  the floor laughing yes absolutely and [TS]

  ruffle ruffle ruffle because it sounded [TS]

  like the Hamburglar but now but so are [TS]

  you love lamb burger ruffle butt so i'm [TS]

  working on these facebook threads of of [TS]

  high school friends and there are and [TS]

  there's this like there's a lot of humor [TS]

  in there in this group of guys who are [TS]

  supporting Donald Trump guys and gals [TS]

  right i mean it's very much like its its [TS]

  cultural rather than gender there are a [TS]

  lot of oh yeah woman who a massive Trump [TS]

  fans and there's a there's a ton of [TS]

  humor and a light heartedness about the [TS]

  way they talk but the humor right away [TS]

  is of a style of humor that we on the [TS]

  other side of the cultural fence have [TS]

  and we characterize that now is punching [TS]

  down right its humor at the expense of [TS]

  other people it's a no and so much of [TS]

  the humor is like why can't you take a [TS]

  joke style but the people who feel that [TS]

  they're they are aggrieved it's anything [TS]

  but punching down [TS]

  yeah exactly right i mean they're [TS]

  they're under assault because you know [TS]

  because there are good god bless I wish [TS]

  you get again have the days where that [TS]

  was considered punching down but now [TS]

  there's blocks everywhere in lying lying [TS]

  dishonest Hillary well and you know and [TS]

  also like there are only whatever a [TS]

  billion Christians in the world some of [TS]

  course there are minority and when you [TS]

  look at growth that curve what killing [TS]

  Jesus but you know the thing is that the [TS]

  that all of those people on my facebook [TS]

  page would probably identify as [TS]

  Christian but they're not they're not [TS]

  bible thumpers they are very different [TS]

  from like an eighties feel ya there do [TS]

  beer-drinking hellraisers right there [TS]

  are Alaskans who got big trucks and they [TS]

  like to shoot guns and fuck the world [TS]

  and you know and they're fun they think [TS]

  of themselves as fun and their support [TS]

  of Trump only other fun and they can [TS]

  take it they can't take a joke [TS]

  exactly and and the thing is you know [TS]

  you and I were raised in in a culture [TS]

  where the why can't you take a joke [TS]

  style of bullying was the norm and [TS]

  somehow through the course of our lives [TS]

  we've arrived at a place where hey you [TS]

  know why can't you take a joke style [TS]

  bullying is sort of like a pretty bad [TS]

  way of socializing people it is but is [TS]

  also but if i remember correctly [TS]

  especially amongst family members and as [TS]

  a young person's young man i think they [TS]

  meant to be helpful [TS]

  where is like a poli aside thing Hey [TS]

  look man you learn how to take a fucking [TS]

  joke [TS]

  sticks and stones will break your bones [TS]

  yeah like maybe don't keep bugging the [TS]

  cabdriver about racist jokes like [TS]

  fucking dial it down [TS]

  well and so all of my facebook pals [TS]

  which is to say my friends from high [TS]

  school I mean the only people online who [TS]

  follow me who avidly disagree with me or [TS]

  my high school friends are trolls right [TS]

  and indexes and well know that my none [TS]

  of my ex-girlfriends are on social media [TS]

  was that was that part of the the [TS]

  agreement [TS]

  no I for many many years every woman I [TS]

  dated was growing and you don't get the [TS]

  lens that didn't it had nothing to do [TS]

  with me it was just like I was attracted [TS]

  to lights and and and i don't know why [TS]

  right i mean every girl I ever dated had [TS]

  the thing that attracted to me a [TS]

  attracted me to her from across the room [TS]

  was something on the order of like that [TS]

  girl have leaves in her hair done just [TS]

  got strong bones returns veteran she [TS]

  knows how to take a fucking joke [TS]

  yeah why why does she have leaves in her [TS]

  hair and I walked over to my sleeves and [TS]

  she'd say fuck you can a bad can it be [TS]

  should we take this is full now on you [TS]

  take a third location and good life [TS]

  intrigued by you tell me more about your [TS]

  leaves so i can't be on to something [TS]

  there some girls if in my past some ex [TS]

  girlfriends that I would just like to [TS]

  talk to because it's like a it's been 15 [TS]

  years just checking in the only way I [TS]

  the only even like way I have of knowing [TS]

  anything about their continued existence [TS]

  is that some friend of a friend of hers [TS]

  is on facebook and every once in a while [TS]

  there are some something float by where [TS]

  it's like oh that's you know i'm [TS]

  following her friend of a friend I see [TS]

  some picture of the back of her hair and [TS]

  I'm like I know those leaves [TS]

  that's right somebody put photo Tammy [TS]

  anything about Tammy Tammy but but yeah [TS]

  so that so what what I find over there [TS]

  in that world is like there is a [TS]

  tremendous feeling of togetherness and [TS]

  lightheartedness and feeling like [TS]

  they're the only people left in the [TS]

  world who have even a reasonable outlook [TS]

  on life and that over here in the [TS]

  liberal like we're all a bunch of in the [TS]

  on the liberal side of the fence [TS]

  we're all a bunch of thumb suckers and [TS]

  concern trolls basically like what are [TS]

  we so been added [TS]

  about wellness and again the implicitly [TS]

  i'm going to keep making this about [TS]

  perceived status but what do we have to [TS]

  be mad about especially because we're on [TS]

  the ascent we're the ones who get to [TS]

  redefine the idea of you know gender not [TS]

  being digital and things like that [TS]

  where's your fucking everything up like [TS]

  we're not allowed to be mad yeah we are [TS]

  the ones imposing an agenda [TS]

  yeah and and the and the and that [TS]

  informs their narrative about the things [TS]

  that are on their agenda are either [TS]

  status quo things that they would like [TS]

  to maintain or things that they [TS]

  perceived to have been traditional [TS]

  things which have been encroached upon [TS]

  that they would like to regain that turf [TS]

  but they think about themselves as just [TS]

  holding the line of what normal is [TS]

  and they they see us on the other side [TS]

  pushing what and you hear this term all [TS]

  the time radical agenda [TS]

  yeah but it is you know it is an [TS]

  encroaching agenda so when I when I you [TS]

  know when i hear that litany of [TS]

  descriptions of the of people that [TS]

  represent now millions and millions and [TS]

  millions and millions of millions of [TS]

  people I i have to resist my own like [TS]

  knee-jerk reaction to say like they're [TS]

  all idiots right and try and get inside [TS]

  that culture a little bit and be like [TS]

  what is it like from in here and if you [TS]

  think about all those people are the [TS]

  Trump rallies that we look like to look [TS]

  at and just go like oh my god they're [TS]

  the worst [TS]

  they're the worst with their you know [TS]

  that the only thing missing is a [TS]

  baseball hat with two beer cans in it [TS]

  and fuckin straws coming down but from [TS]

  within that trump rally they think of [TS]

  themselves as having a blast [TS]

  yeah and Trump is having a blast that's [TS]

  it's a monster truck show [TS]

  it's a monster truck show and we and and [TS]

  from the outside we look like a bunch of [TS]

  just joyless grave like can't take a [TS]

  joke don't appreciate this is this is [TS]

  people whose lives have been until it's [TS]

  a little bit like the whole states [TS]

  rights things kind of played out again [TS]

  was like hey we have all this worked out [TS]

  you're going to stay off our ship we [TS]

  start your shit and of course that [TS]

  never the case and so you know we not [TS]

  only are we the aggrieved party if we [TS]

  should choose to look at it that way but [TS]

  like we have a sense of humor we see [TS]

  like you sit there and like you have I [TS]

  just listened to three episodes of a [TS]

  podcast about how horrible life will be [TS]

  at Donald Trump becomes president is [TS]

  very good podcast called the truck cast [TS]

  but i highly recommend very good it's [TS]

  very opinionated and it's very well done [TS]

  but like people look at that and go on [TS]

  my god and but what they think what they [TS]

  also see is they see how scared we are [TS]

  they see how how terrified and powerless [TS]

  so many people feel and like that's all [TS]

  the more reason to start pulling for [TS]

  that particular pro wrestler [TS]

  it's like holy shit somebody finally put [TS]

  a scare into John Roderick a that fucker [TS]

  up all the dog the dog can smell your [TS]

  fear [TS]

  yeah right but you know i was on a [TS]

  conference call earlier today within a [TS]

  city agency and it was a group of [TS]

  probably 20 people talking into a [TS]

  probably 18 of them were sitting around [TS]

  a conference table and I was laying in [TS]

  bed talking to them with a with my [TS]

  podcast and that is all around that's it [TS]

  that's it to rip this a terrific way to [TS]

  get a lot of stuff does just get but [TS]

  people are really the speakerphone [TS]

  yeah and at one point there someone [TS]

  spoke up and said our you know we're [TS]

  looking for people to participate in [TS]

  this event it's you know the event is [TS]

  targeted at you know young women of [TS]

  color and so and as the perfect [TS]

  describing it [TS]

  she sort of says as an aside to the [TS]

  people in the room like so anyone here [TS]

  that wants to get involved in this [TS]

  please you know talk to me after the [TS]

  meeting and sorry we're not really [TS]

  looking for any sis males mhm and within [TS]

  the context of this conversation that [TS]

  was you know like yeah [TS]

  self-evidently right you're looking for [TS]

  people that can identify and though and [TS]

  in particular people that these young [TS]

  women can identify with right that's the [TS]

  that that is the element that's missing [TS]

  that's why this event is even happening [TS]

  because these young women of color are [TS]

  not represented they don't see they [TS]

  don't have role models the same way and [TS]

  and we're trying to now build these [TS]

  institutions where there where there are [TS]

  these mentoring relationships but from [TS]

  from within a Donald Trump rally [TS]

  what is the answer to that what from the [TS]

  men's rights organizations or the gamer [TS]

  Gators to what you two huge problems [TS]

  problem number one is you're excluding [TS]

  the people who are never allowed to be [TS]

  excluded in second you're using a term [TS]

  that they find unnecessary and [TS]

  potentially offensive exactly right i [TS]

  mean it is kind of more than one thing [TS]

  it's not just roll your eyes over this [TS]

  neologism it's that oh my god I can't [TS]

  believe you have the temerity to leave [TS]

  us out and then to use this faggot name [TS]

  for us [TS]

  well that and and and the way that that [TS]

  would then the way that they would the [TS]

  way that argument would coalesce is well [TS]

  what would happen if I said that we were [TS]

  having a meeting and no women color [TS]

  right and it's what we have when we have [TS]

  a men's government clock right like the [TS]

  flow you mean every meeting and [TS]

  everything that's ever happened 453 [TS]

  there's a lot of cooking for 50 years [TS]

  but but that is there is a you know [TS]

  there's a libertarian logic to that [TS]

  which is no regulation of any kind is [TS]

  the purest form of life and as soon as [TS]

  you start instituting rules then you're [TS]

  already on the way to talat arianism [TS]

  especially if those rules are about me [TS]

  right if those rules affect me or or [TS]

  three reasons it's amazing how rarely [TS]

  people who self-identify as libertarians [TS]

  are fighting to have things lifted from [TS]

  people aren't them well yeah right [TS]

  because if there were no rules about who [TS]

  could go to meetings uh then it would [TS]

  just be back to a question of their [TS]

  ethnic bites you never think that's [TS]

  exactly right like like and then it and [TS]

  and i think i think affirmative action [TS]

  as an ocean was the moment at which [TS]

  some number of of some number of [TS]

  carriages on the train of progress just [TS]

  got unhooked because it was a leap of [TS]

  logic a leap of of of like like a kind [TS]

  of faith or a an understanding the [TS]

  understanding that redress is even [TS]

  possible and that redress would be [TS]

  beneficial to all that is that's a [TS]

  that's oh right right to not frame it as [TS]

  like a handout to get these people off [TS]

  our back but rather something that could [TS]

  improve the culture and society for [TS]

  everybody [TS]

  yeah that that that the the benefits of [TS]

  affirmative action the benefits of equal [TS]

  rights for all are not a they're not a [TS]

  machine to two newly privilege another [TS]

  group over you they're they're not [TS]

  taking anything away from you [TS]

  it's it is an attempt to continue to [TS]

  perfect to the notion of the American [TS]

  experimented that can it's a [TS]

  continuation of a of a of progress that [TS]

  we've made throughout time that benefits [TS]

  everyone because progress benefits [TS]

  everyone and the the more you know we [TS]

  have watched well disseminate and we [TS]

  were so were so consumed with how wealth [TS]

  is concentrated right now and it is it's [TS]

  it's like it unfairly grossly [TS]

  concentrated in the in the one-percent [TS]

  but the fact is compared to even 60 [TS]

  years ago when people were still [TS]

  routinely starving to death around the [TS]

  world in you know number in numbers that [TS]

  would astonish you even now to look at [TS]

  you know we have we as a as a human as a [TS]

  human race through technology and [TS]

  through democracy have turned to the [TS]

  earth truly into a [TS]

  into a garden of Plenty and people now [TS]

  live life expectancy has doubled and the [TS]

  and education has doubled in or you know [TS]

  like people are are so much more [TS]

  educated and cared for then maybe I'm [TS]

  just think about medical care for old [TS]

  and young people [TS]

  yeah then the amount of things that we [TS]

  know to avoid doing so we don't die as [TS]

  young and you know something does happen [TS]

  we have ways to treat stuff that didn't [TS]

  exist 50 years ago a life expectancy of [TS]

  people in 1900 was about 40 but it [TS]

  wasn't meant for fifteen yeah you know [TS]

  and so so with that in mind you know you [TS]

  can just make this this case that this [TS]

  combination of science and philosophy [TS]

  science on the one hand you know [TS]

  improving them are material life and and [TS]

  philosophy on the other sort of [TS]

  improving our like agency our political [TS]

  agency are belonging and I mean by that [TS]

  political philosophy and also you know [TS]

  the philosophy of the mind and that case [TS]

  that you know that case of affirmative [TS]

  action in that case of social justice [TS]

  which in the context of like reparations [TS]

  just naturally a defends the people who [TS]

  aren't making a philosophical lead it [TS]

  offends them because they say well my [TS]

  grandfather had hard migrate [TS]

  nobody-nobody i mean we had a [TS]

  hardscrabble life nobody ever gave me [TS]

  for money [TS]

  yeah where's my parade right like my [TS]

  great-grandparents came over from [TS]

  Ireland and they didn't you know they [TS]

  didn't riot or whatever that that logic [TS]

  of the logic where you're only seeing [TS]

  reparations in in terms of like a [TS]

  cash-out or or an unfair advantage being [TS]

  afforded to you rather than seeing it as [TS]

  like part of this grand experiment how [TS]

  are we try [TS]

  to create what are our theories about [TS]

  political science where we can we can [TS]

  raise the bar for everybody and now [TS]

  we're at a place where that has been so [TS]

  poorly explained that we've lost we've [TS]

  lost half the country and I and I do put [TS]

  the blame on the Intelligencia the [TS]

  Academy for lack of a better description [TS]

  for having done such a poor job of [TS]

  articulating what the project and i [TS]

  think within academia because within [TS]

  academia they also perceived themselves [TS]

  to be a threatened minority who write [TS]

  the the college life and the and the [TS]

  ivory tower folks saw themselves as [TS]

  revolutionaries 20 at war against a a a [TS]

  you know a majority of dummies and so [TS]

  they you know they used the the same [TS]

  inflammatory language of resistance and [TS]

  and and war that we were we were under [TS]

  siege and we were going to we were going [TS]

  to take it to the level of like we were [TS]

  going to him in in a lot of ways impose [TS]

  these theories because if people didn't [TS]

  like it they could suck it right like if [TS]

  you didn't like it too bad for you this [TS]

  is what's right [TS]

  this is what's right for you and no and [TS]

  the and the and trying to get people to [TS]

  rally which is what we need [TS]

  trying to get people to understand and [TS]

  and get on board that crucial step the [TS]

  Academy stop even pretending and so now [TS]

  we fit we failed utterly failed to to [TS]

  get everybody to understand what what [TS]

  we're trying to accomplish and and you [TS]

  know and and it's and a lot of that is [TS]

  understandable [TS]

  that but you and I have talked about [TS]

  this a lot every single group of people [TS]

  feels like they are the money minority [TS]

  yep and they all feel like they have to [TS]

  defend they have to defend themselves [TS]

  and then I think the many people really [TS]

  do it let's put this way there's not [TS]

  that many people one of my old saws is [TS]

  like I don't think there's that many [TS]

  people in existence today that would [TS]

  describe themselves as stupid and I [TS]

  don't think there's actually that many [TS]

  Americans who would describe themselves [TS]

  as being one commonly fortunate and [TS]

  privileged that's changing a little bit [TS]

  but i think this they're still [TS]

  everybody's got their reasons for why [TS]

  they think the way they think and do the [TS]

  way they do and based on strong feelings [TS]

  and anecdotes and traditions and things [TS]

  like that there's the minutes but that's [TS]

  that's always been the case it's just we [TS]

  we always see the log in somebody else's [TS]

  I but the other part of this that i [TS]

  think is another failing of benefits the [TS]

  academia but the failure of all people [TS]

  but im gonna have it fall harvest on the [TS]

  Liberals is our inability he described [TS]

  how old is getting racist shut it down [TS]

  like this is getting like you're [TS]

  obviously you have done so you're an [TS]

  idiot shut it down like there's a [TS]

  failure of imagination i think on the [TS]

  liberal side and failure of empathy to [TS]

  understand why people are saying what [TS]

  they're saying in the way that they are [TS]

  saying it and the fact that we disagree [TS]

  strongly with the very top level of how [TS]

  they present themselves and what the [TS]

  rhetoric is and choosing not to play by [TS]

  the same rules that we do in terms of [TS]

  you know online discourse or discourse [TS]

  in general I think that leads to a very [TS]

  dangerous lack of empathy of not [TS]

  actually listening to what these people [TS]

  are saying because when you actually [TS]

  read these pieces about people who go [TS]

  into a Donald Trump rally for example [TS]

  it's frequently extremely interesting [TS]

  where you want this person meets people [TS]

  they genuinely like like weirdos that [TS]

  they like inside of a Donald Trump rally [TS]

  but you know what gets reported fairly [TS]

  is the one person who yells hang the [TS]

  bitch in clinton is named the problem is [TS]

  you hear that often enough and you're [TS]

  gonna get the feeling that that you're [TS]

  gonna make all this and try to defend [TS]

  Donald Trump what i am saying there's a [TS]

  lot more going on than just we love [TS]

  Donald Trump Donald Trump is the [TS]

  figurehead for 4,000 different hydras [TS]

  and like to think that that's all the [TS]

  same people with the same for you and [TS]

  you just put this this and this big pile [TS]

  of dumb people who don't get it and I [TS]

  don't like you're missing out on a lot [TS]

  of stuff did you read that New Yorker [TS]

  article III think I've read all the [TS]

  articles and there's one with a guy when [TS]

  there's the the one guy there who was [TS]

  into chemtrails it was handing out [TS]

  bottles of water that while i'm sorry [TS]

  you're reading my blog [TS]

  no no this guy from the New York did one [TS]

  of those wonderful new yorker pieces [TS]

  where he was just like I'm just gonna go [TS]

  to this Trump rally and see if I can [TS]

  make any friends and he did you know [TS]

  what I see and he had that thing where [TS]

  he's where he would say because he was [TS]

  only want to build a wall and he would [TS]

  say well what about this one a situation [TS]

  where this gal was born or you know i [TS]

  was born in America or well I'm sorry [TS]

  was born in Mexico but brought to [TS]

  America when she was three months old [TS]

  and uh and got a parking ticket and now [TS]

  she's being deported and almost [TS]

  everybody he asked was like oh well I [TS]

  mean and the first thing they said was [TS]

  issued a good person [TS]

  yeah right well she's a good person then [TS]

  we should figure out it means there [TS]

  should be exceptions certainly you know [TS]

  like in each case there their initial [TS]

  their initial argument of like build a [TS]

  wall keep them out but your but when you [TS]

  do that your problem tising something [TS]

  that seems very simple which is hey [TS]

  we're here at this rally to talk about [TS]

  Matt we are like you think in a year [TS]

  people get fuck all for Donald Trump [TS]

  they're there because he represents a [TS]

  very very deep anger and discontentment [TS]

  what has happened in America some of [TS]

  which a lot of people might surprisingly [TS]

  want to agree with a lot of stuff [TS]

  happened between 2008 and 2010 in this [TS]

  country that a lot of people are mad [TS]

  about on every side of every aisle [TS]

  that's a lot of it there's a lot of the [TS]

  losing jobs and I'm not trying to defend [TS]

  any of this but but I think I guess what [TS]

  I'm trying to say is that like I think [TS]

  it's it's uniquely on smart liberals to [TS]

  be such dealings about trying to put [TS]

  people in a box that they can understand [TS]

  and hate at scale [TS]

  instead of trying to actually listen to [TS]

  what somebody is saying so in that case [TS]

  what you just described somebody goes [TS]

  into that rally and goes from goes from [TS]

  being a bunch of rapist from Mexico to [TS]

  here's this one girl that I could [TS]

  imagine my kid knowing that changes [TS]

  everything because now it's not about [TS]

  people it's about eight person but we [TS]

  rarely do the same thing with people we [TS]

  disagree with and that's on us we are [TS]

  making it worse when we try to demonize [TS]

  demon eyes on the people who are we [TS]

  don't agree with what we we don't have [TS]

  the empathy to try to hear what's [TS]

  happening behind what they're saying [TS]

  we're because it's a culture that's [TS]

  foreign to us it's like watching [TS]

  bullfighting remembers when i'm sure we [TS]

  can be mad about I well I know what [TS]

  could be bad about because the Sun but [TS]

  ain't no yeah this is the just and just [TS]

  as you see no i was reading The Guardian [TS]

  an article by dave eggers your daddy [TS]

  Dave Eggers goes to a Donald Trump rally [TS]

  see that the man in front of me said he [TS]

  was pointing to a jets white trail in [TS]

  the sky above us [TS]

  that's the air force is playing shit in [TS]

  the sky bigger says i'll call this man [TS]

  Jim oh good [TS]

  any like jim was buying bottled water [TS]

  for everybody and being eventually i I'm [TS]

  sorry to dissemble and to be such an [TS]

  unloyal uh you know fellow traveler at [TS]

  such an important time but fucking [TS]

  everybody [TS]

  well yeah I'm mad about Donald Trump to [TS]

  like i think is a dangerous man but like [TS]

  just yelling across the aisle is not [TS]

  going to make this better [TS]

  the more things that we do to show how [TS]

  we're right in there wrong [TS]

  the further we dig ourselves into a [TS]

  completely untenable situation that the [TS]

  unit on an interesting thing a second [TS]

  ago which was thank you mean you know [TS]

  it's rare moment that's very that's [TS]

  three for me that fuckin 206 episodes a [TS]

  rare diamond in the horse shit I don't [TS]

  know how the horse ate the diamond don't [TS]

  ask somebody for a diamond in a banana [TS]

  fed to a horse like introduction and [TS]

  then I saw it come out of the poop poop [TS]

  chute know the idea i mean way up the [TS]

  idea of privilege right now whenever [TS]

  whenever someone speaks about privilege [TS]

  there's a there's an aspect of [TS]

  recrimination an apology in it [TS]

  no one talks about their own privilege [TS]

  you know it with any pride certainly on [TS]

  our side of the fence right if you say [TS]

  the word privilege you are saying it now [TS]

  like I mean you know in terms of white [TS]

  privilege you have this thing and you're [TS]

  sorry for it and you're trying to amend [TS]

  for it you know that you that this has [TS]

  become a term of art for a kind of [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  for a form of shame at your privilege [TS]

  and I think it gets the second but I'm [TS]

  not interrupt the first of all I think [TS]

  it's a little bit like acknowledging the [TS]

  air is free and we get it yet part of it [TS]

  is just acknowledging that is actually a [TS]

  thing that rather than my emotions about [TS]

  how might I feel but heard about [TS]

  somebody calling me that then i have to [TS]

  really stop it you know what you're [TS]

  actually really fucking right I can walk [TS]

  anywhere I want and I'll be fine but the [TS]

  but the issue i think in our culture at [TS]

  large is that no one is acknowledging [TS]

  that they are in charge [TS]

  it's always somebody else did everyone [TS]

  select right and and and i say this [TS]

  about about the Liberals at as much or [TS]

  more than anyone else [TS]

  this this sense of being under siege [TS]

  means that there's no intellectual [TS]

  tradition or cultural tradition that [TS]

  doesn't that doesn't describe itself as [TS]

  under siege including all of the rich [TS]

  preppy guys at the Yale Club in in New [TS]

  York City who are kind of circling [TS]

  around their gin and tonics and saying [TS]

  you know they're coming at us from all [TS]

  sides where the last of a dying breed [TS]

  so no one in America will acknowledge [TS]

  that they are the establishment and in [TS]

  that in everyone's failure to [TS]

  acknowledge that they are the [TS]

  establishment [TS]

  no one is in charge no one has to take [TS]

  responsibility and so right now [TS]

  effectively the liberals are the [TS]

  establishment we really are like our [TS]

  candidate is going to win the presidency [TS]

  and our candidate has been the president [TS]

  for the last eight years and liberal [TS]

  ideas are ascendant and have been for a [TS]

  long time now we feel under assault [TS]

  because there are hundreds of millions [TS]

  of people or you know a hundred and [TS]

  fifty million people on the other side [TS]

  of the aisle who are throwing a spit [TS]

  wads at us right and who want guns to be [TS]

  unregulated and who want abortion to be [TS]

  illegal and etc etc etc [TS]

  and they are the there the other side of [TS]

  the of the aisle but really they benefit [TS]

  from liberal ideas to and the degree to [TS]

  which they acknowledge that or don't is [TS]

  just a failure of of language or you [TS]

  know it's a failure of of comprehension [TS]

  more than anything but at some point the [TS]

  people with privilege who are for all [TS]

  intensive purposes every American [TS]

  listening to this podcast regardless of [TS]

  race or gender you have electricity in [TS]

  the computer we yeah and you are smart [TS]

  enough to be listening to me and tony [TS]

  award-winning broadcaster on the line [TS]

  yeah right you are the intellectual a [TS]

  10-percent we are your the reason we do [TS]

  it you know what it's all for you and [TS]

  the kids for the kids but 22 to accept [TS]

  that mantle and to say i am part of the [TS]

  leading one part of the leadership and I [TS]

  have a responsibility not to think of [TS]

  myself constantly as a victim and [TS]

  constantly under siege [TS]

  I have a responsibility to be the adult [TS]

  in the room and to say here are our [TS]

  ideas and why they make sense [TS]

  here's the larger world we're trying to [TS]

  cut to construct it's a world where [TS]

  fairness does predominate it's a world [TS]

  where a rising tide does lift all boats [TS]

  and it's some version of you know [TS]

  socialistic capitalistic Democratic you [TS]

  know uh like a like a secular whatever [TS]

  this this cloud of ideas that we all [TS]

  sort of bathe in and pick and choose [TS]

  grapes from took two to create a world [TS]

  view that we can proudly hold up and say [TS]

  you know I do have privilege it is the [TS]

  privilege of being a person in this [TS]

  culture who is responsible for for this [TS]

  world home trying to me [TS]

  yeah and that a that shouldering of the [TS]

  burden and refusal to think of yourself [TS]

  as [TS]

  as someone who is who's constantly in a [TS]

  posture of defense is also a leap like a [TS]

  like a intellectual and spiritual lead [TS]

  and it isn't to say you don't say the [TS]

  word privilege with with a tonne of [TS]

  apology you say I'm privileged to be [TS]

  able to say the following things right [TS]

  I'm privileged to be able to come to you [TS]

  today and described the world i imagine [TS]

  and the world we collectively are trying [TS]

  to imagine and I I feel like over time [TS]

  the way to to to have this experiment [TS]

  not devolved into what it is you know [TS]

  what we're all afraid it's doing right [TS]

  now which is just this like two nations [TS]

  scenario where in order to get from [TS]

  Seattle to Minneapolis you're gonna have [TS]

  to fly over hostile territory or have a [TS]

  passport right to go up to code frost [TS]

  red state land before going into cloak [TS]

  mode you know and like Minneapolis and [TS]

  and and chicago or kind of up there and [TS]

  it's weird like lake Lake down town [TS]

  country that goes up to ontario um in [TS]

  order to in order to not have that [TS]

  happen we we just and we're the ones [TS]

  that have to do it we have to make a [TS]

  better case we have to articulate a case [TS]

  that isn't from our own our own state of [TS]

  victimization but a case that is [TS]

  encompassing that says listen you guys [TS]

  we're not trying to be humorless drudges [TS]

  here we're not trying to force you to [TS]

  all be gay that it sucks we don't want [TS]

  you to be getting really don't want you [TS]

  to because we just want the game ones of [TS]

  you to be happy [TS]

  that's good friends right come on [TS]

  yeah but they're gonna be three students [TS]

  interested in this idea though the the [TS]

  tickle taking leadership just kind of [TS]

  grabbing it you know being the one's [TS]

  gonna love you know let it begin with me [TS]

  i'm gonna run this meeting [TS]

  yeah very very interesting idea you know [TS]

  acknowledging that you already have that [TS]

  you're already [TS]

  kind of running the meeting that's [TS]

  that's a strangely existential i like it [TS]

  i gotta i was i I tweeted out a an ex of [TS]

  mine is the gal that spearheading the [TS]

  shout your abortion movement and i [TS]

  retweeted one of her tweets and I got a [TS]

  reply on facebook from a guy that I went [TS]

  to college with and i went to a Catholic [TS]

  College for a couple years and this [TS]

  friend of mine is a big big burly kind [TS]

  of you know Irish Catholic I taller than [TS]

  me bigger than me like a bit many i know [TS]

  right well that's his name Jimmy Jimmy o [TS]

  O'Shaughnessy not attracted and he has I [TS]

  should you not eight kids [TS]

  hope is a clean a nap and he has a [TS]

  little darling kids ranging in age from [TS]

  Lee 24 comes from 0 to 11 and he's uh [TS]

  he's a what [TS]

  he's a what [TS]

  the guy hilarious guy he comments on my [TS]

  facebook page all the time he's a [TS]

  liberal guy he's a funny guy but he is [TS]

  anti-abortion mhm and he's anti abortion [TS]

  because every life is sacred and that is [TS]

  that is a worldview right it's alex katz [TS]

  got their reasons I mean it's an [TS]

  accompanying worldview and it begins at [TS]

  up at an initial premise which is every [TS]

  life is sacred and that sacredness comes [TS]

  from its from the fact that there is a [TS]

  soul to where we are we are essentially [TS]

  stewards of those lives right and from [TS]

  their perspective like like just as we [TS]

  just as we look back at our founding [TS]

  fathers and go how could they possibly [TS]

  have had slaves and simultaneously been [TS]

  writing these you know these like [TS]

  Florida and beautiful dark it's almost [TS]

  like they're from a different time it's [TS]

  like they're from a different time that [TS]

  different values so we Catholics are our [TS]

  there's a large proportion of the [TS]

  philosophical Catholics whoo-hoo imagine [TS]

  some future day when people will look [TS]

  back in time and say how could we have [TS]

  sat how could our forefathers of SAT [TS]

  idly by during this genocide of souls [TS]

  but also at the same time if I may [TS]

  compare the amount of volunteer time [TS]

  five of your ne5 your friends spent vs [TS]

  in average sampling of five people from [TS]

  your local parish people who are like it [TS]

  tremendously involved in good causes and [TS]

  like trying to be Stewart's of trying to [TS]

  trying to fit a certain New Testament [TS]

  idea of good works right right well and [TS]

  and and again i say i'm saying they're [TS]

  not bad he's up an end up in a tower [TS]

  with some sandwiches and toilet paper [TS]

  taking shots of people you know [TS]

  no they're not bad you know there and [TS]

  and I and I and this guy is just one of [TS]

  thousands of people i know on that side [TS]

  of the fence you know who and some of [TS]

  them are really really philosophical but [TS]

  it begins at this initial premise and so [TS]

  he wrote on my facebook page you know [TS]

  can I please ask you to take this post [TS]

  down in respect of the millions of souls [TS]

  that are you know that and then and he [TS]

  used some inflammatory language at that [TS]

  point [TS]

  you know a few a few adjectives like it [TS]

  but equivalent to you putting up a [TS]

  picture of Auschwitz on an elie wiesel [TS]

  page [TS]

  yeah like you come onto that that's not [TS]

  cool but he's he's a friend of mine he [TS]

  respects me he follows me he is you know [TS]

  he's one of what i would consider to be [TS]

  my or season in my orbit and this and I [TS]

  and I got into his sandbox right and [TS]

  he's a supporter of obama and hillary [TS]

  but this is his mhm yeah you know his [TS]

  little like core issue at the center of [TS]

  his world at the center of his vision of [TS]

  the world and and I wrote him back very [TS]

  bright [TS]

  I didn't write him back because we're [TS]

  living in this shit world where all I [TS]

  did was comment on his golf ball that's [TS]

  like David well I didn't write him back [TS]

  on market center taper like they should [TS]

  wall said I gave him all three laws no i [TS]

  didn't know it's like be the Holy [TS]

  Trinity that he lost the Father the Son [TS]

  of the nominee domini time fav by [TS]

  running back and said listen you know [TS]

  like in all honesty we have a different [TS]

  different foundational idea of the value [TS]

  of human life and I do not share your [TS]

  view that every life is sacred and so [TS]

  forth at the second s of that life [TS]

  Trump's this other right now should I [TS]

  consider pretty important but within [TS]

  that like you have to acknowledge you [TS]

  have to just if you're if you're going [TS]

  to if you're going to get into that wait [TS]

  until you have to just say like I [TS]

  because if you say that like there is a [TS]

  small amount of sacredness to a life and [TS]

  it doesn't and it's not equivalent to [TS]

  the right and is a spectrum of sacred [TS]

  yeah make your own choices [TS]

  there's not really it's like you have to [TS]

  say good to yourself sacred sacred [TS]

  you're pulling the sacred card when you [TS]

  say it's sacred [TS]

  like that'sthat's taking it from like em [TS]

  don't curse on Sunday don't masturbate [TS]

  after [TS]

  911 this is more like no sacred that's [TS]

  that's a different kind of thing [TS]

  yeah well and it's and it's equivalent [TS]

  to like why do we why if we kill [TS]

  somebody when they're one-month-old is [TS]

  it murder and when that when there 8 [TS]

  months old in the woman's not murder [TS]

  we have in we have within us we have [TS]

  made within our laws and within our [TS]

  minds some uh honestly some pretty [TS]

  arbitrary decision about what almost [TS]

  everything is there are many spectra in [TS]

  life in there are hard decisions to make [TS]

  about spectrum but if you act like [TS]

  there's not a spectrum not sure [TS]

  science is gonna hold up so well and so [TS]

  but they're so there's a spectrum right [TS]

  and a lot of that is is legal and a lot [TS]

  of it is moral and your point of view [TS]

  almost every decision anyone has ever [TS]

  made is arbitrary they well they [TS]

  certainly they are because in a natural [TS]

  state [TS]

  we're just I mean we're just pray for [TS]

  tigers right but where you know it like [TS]

  if you think about think about humans in [TS]

  their natural state or whatever I mean [TS]

  that's where we're so far down the river [TS]

  from that but yeah we're in our [TS]

  decisions are predicated on prior [TS]

  decisions and the whole idea of [TS]

  secretness is predicated on a condom on [TS]

  monotheism which is evolved from those [TS]

  there that there is there is a God whose [TS]

  will is knowable and it's our [TS]

  responsibility as the Stewart's of that [TS]

  truth to make sure that that is enacted [TS]

  in every conceivable way on earth then [TS]

  that there's there's a lot of you're [TS]

  making a lot of lily pad leaps to get to [TS]

  and it's just like you know what is God [TS]

  he's a silverback gorilla who's jealous [TS]

  of the smaller girl that's from Monday [TS]

  cards first meditation so so I wrote him [TS]

  and I said you know we're just this is [TS]

  we're just foundationally going to be [TS]

  work we're never going to come to an [TS]

  accord on this because I don't share [TS]

  your view that human life is sacred and [TS]

  and the problem is that you that the [TS]

  people who who have a belief that human [TS]

  life is sacred they believe that all a [TS]

  all laws and morals that that we live [TS]

  live according to proceed from that [TS]

  initial premise why be good to each [TS]

  other as human life is sacred [TS]

  why do we not kill and rape and Eve [TS]

  because life is sacred you you proceed [TS]

  from that initial idea i get the [TS]

  chickens involved with the pig is [TS]

  committed [TS]

  mm you know think that see that seems [TS]

  like a like a Garfield quote you know [TS]

  that saying no chicken the chicken then [TS]

  goes the tickets hey you know what we [TS]

  should start breakfast restaurant and it [TS]

  takes is no way in the the hands like [TS]

  why not [TS]

  and then the pics as well you know [TS]

  you're involved but I'm committed [TS]

  yeah that's right you're involved but [TS]

  i'm committed hands exactly right so so [TS]

  the harder case actually falls to the [TS]

  liberal in that situation to say i do [TS]

  not believe i do not have a foundational [TS]

  belief that every life is sacred and yet [TS]

  I believe in morality and law and those [TS]

  things stem from some costume case some [TS]

  initial case that we have we have yet to [TS]

  describe em like why in it if if you [TS]

  take away the idea that life is sacred [TS]

  and that we have that there's a [TS]

  monotheistic God why be good to each [TS]

  other and the liberal case is constantly [TS]

  to say no we are making this argument [TS]

  from the rights of man that that that [TS]

  are that are operatory that these are [TS]

  self-evident rights and you know and [TS]

  this is all this all proceeds from from [TS]

  a card and lock and jefferson and [TS]

  Augustine or whatever you know like like [TS]

  it so it is the theory it's the [TS]

  philosophy of history and it's happened [TS]

  simultaneously with you know with the [TS]

  sort of theistic approach which is that [TS]

  you cannot divorce these ideas from [TS]

  there from the the source the fountain [TS]

  which is [TS]

  which is a loving God and so the [TS]

  innocent secret source where I mean this [TS]

  is going to this is eight admittedly a [TS]

  stretch where let's say even if you were [TS]

  super into the idea of abortion as a [TS]

  thing you wouldn't let yourself because [TS]

  of the sacred law that passed on to you [TS]

  that basically to extend that kind of I [TS]

  don't know jurisprudence of God that [TS]

  that if this is the law it must be [TS]

  followed down the line every single way [TS]

  like a but I'm not gonna pick and choose [TS]

  which of these things no matter how [TS]

  strongly i may be personally for or [TS]

  against anything the laws law right you [TS]

  can't pick and choose and that's what [TS]

  gives the law Authority [TS]

  mhm because it represents something [TS]

  that's real and not something that you [TS]

  just drenched or something that you that [TS]

  you believe maybe today and not a year [TS]

  from now when you've read a different [TS]

  book is where there's a shabbat [TS]

  elevators [TS]

  it's a shabbat elevate like it was it [TS]

  went when they went in the Declaration [TS]

  of Independence Jefferson and and Ben [TS]

  Franklin collaborating or whatever came [TS]

  up with this like we hold these truths [TS]

  to be self-evident that all men are [TS]

  created equal [TS]

  that's an egg's that's a moment where [TS]

  they're kicking the ball down the field [TS]

  you know they are they are saying we [TS]

  hold these truths to be self-evident [TS]

  well that's nice how do you hold these [TS]

  truths to be self-evident [TS]

  I like to show your work sir exact show [TS]

  you an F and what they what they were [TS]

  playing off of was the you know was the [TS]

  intellectual tradition of the as they [TS]

  saw it of their immediate forebears and [TS]

  of the of thomas mann and so forth [TS]

  obviously I'm talking about John Locke [TS]

  here know like um sometimes man but but [TS]

  you know that they are they're playing [TS]

  off of this this deist sort of Rights of [TS]

  Man but d ism was you know was a leap [TS]

  that that maintained the existence of a [TS]

  god so so here we are now 200 years [TS]

  later [TS]

  oh my god 204 most 50 years later yeah i [TS]

  know i was just introduced to remember [TS]

  them by [TS]

  centennial quarters how you want to [TS]

  collect those still have them i still [TS]

  have the clich├ęd yeah we are still [TS]

  kicking that ball down the field from [TS]

  the liberal side [TS]

  yeah and we continue to do a poor job at [TS]

  this yesterday where were we really into [TS]

  Hamilton in our house and there's so [TS]

  many lines so many great lines and we [TS]

  end up talking about and she's like no [TS]

  time just like my darling to tell me [TS]

  again like which one is the one that had [TS]

  slaves and I was like tell us jefferson [TS]

  and things as much as I love the [TS]

  Alexander Hamilton musical I'm I think [TS]

  I'm more on kind of Jefferson side on a [TS]

  lot of issues with but with that said [TS]

  yeah the guy who wrote that he totally [TS]

  had slaves well had slaves and had sex [TS]

  with his lips I mean they all had I mean [TS]

  Hamilton didn't have slaves because he [TS]

  was poor [TS]

  that's right but how does a bastard [TS]

  orphan son of a whore and a Scotsman [TS]

  ones that was Angelica Skylar said we [TS]

  hold these truths to be self-evident [TS]

  that all men are created equal and when [TS]

  women sequel [TS]

  yeah I worked in the mammal to decide [TS]

  you're so we got Thomas man we got [TS]

  deists we got to abortion facebook [TS]

  yeah abortion facebook i don't know how [TS]

  i didn't comment on this episode please [TS]

  send to rock on the line at example.com [TS]

  one of our operators will be standing by [TS]

  this episode will never air [TS]

  uh-huh I really really really want i I [TS]

  really want the I want those of us that [TS]

  share this world this liberal world to [TS]

  do more self-examination to join the [TS]

  club Johnny I know man I I you know and [TS]

  like and the thing is there's so much i [TS]

  am not going to fucking talk about on [TS]

  this podcast because i don't think i [TS]

  heard about technology [TS]

  mhm think about this one I'm not saying [TS]

  I have a feeling about this but i'm just [TS]

  going to toss this out i happen to be [TS]

  very much on I'm very simpatico with the [TS]

  people say you know what can we please [TS]

  stop killing the black people i think we [TS]

  need to stop killing black people i [TS]

  agree i think we should start with the [TS]

  black people i know that i know it's [TS]

  it's a bold bold stance on my very brave [TS]

  bold stance when I say I stand before [TS]

  you today today gives you a chance we [TS]

  could stop killing black people now [TS]

  here's the thing [TS]

  follow me on this and and don't don't [TS]

  kill me [TS]

  uh the leap from let's stop killing [TS]

  black people to guns are playing for [TS]

  this is a leap that is not even a leap [TS]

  for most of my friends and I personally [TS]

  I I'd like to see fewer of the guns to [TS]

  write but then the leap from let's stop [TS]

  killing by people so maybe not so many [TS]

  guns you are actually at this point [TS]

  strangely close to saying to a lot of [TS]

  people in America you're responsible for [TS]

  black people being killed [TS]

  whether you realize it or not when you [TS]

  say that not again I don't have a dog in [TS]

  this fight i'm just here to say that i'm [TS]

  telling you if you go and read what [TS]

  people on the other side here when [TS]

  people say that something i happen to [TS]

  agree with what they are going to hear [TS]

  is like not only are you trying to take [TS]

  our guns away but you're essentially [TS]

  accusing me of murder because I I have a [TS]

  gun that's what it sounds like those [TS]

  people i'm going to say that's right [TS]

  wrong or otherwise I just want you to [TS]

  think about it i will know the harder [TS]

  the harder even thing to get your head [TS]

  around is that even if you take the guns [TS]

  out of the equation and you just say [TS]

  listen the cops the white cops in the [TS]

  South do not see blacks as full-humans [TS]

  the evidence that we see is all I can [TS]

  almost guarantee you is just barely even [TS]

  the tip of an iceberg for a much deeper [TS]

  cultural disconnect about how these [TS]

  folks treated and what what what ends up [TS]

  happening is that the left takes on a [TS]

  very lecturing tone volume on your exit [TS]

  John you know a lot of people came [TS]

  brexit experts for experts [TS]

  dude i'm up for expert i got to be a [TS]

  break but really fast i know it took me [TS]

  almost eight hours you want you want to [TS]

  you want to read some of my tweets their [TS]

  top shelf week he sound like Donald [TS]

  Trump my tweets on this is going to be [TS]

  huge people are gonna love it [TS]

  my people at making friends on the [TS]

  internet today the left the left has [TS]

  this culture right where we take we take [TS]

  in this is the biggest women stuff and [TS]

  we say we say very briefly something [TS]

  about our own privilege to indicate that [TS]

  we are on the on the good side we're on [TS]

  the right way we got ourselves a Hall [TS]

  Pass [TS]

  yeah we say you know as someone [TS]

  and you know as a white ally or we say [TS]

  something we said say something that [TS]

  mitigates our our our experience just [TS]

  enough that we absolvo ourselves of [TS]

  complicity and then we immediately [TS]

  adopted hectoring lecturing tone to ward [TS]

  everyone else that we presume it are [TS]

  less enlightened right didn't you go [TS]

  back and read my timeline and what I had [TS]

  to say about this I can't believe we're [TS]

  still talking about this [TS]

  right right but in the meantime largely [TS]

  living in white enclaves largely [TS]

  benefiting from systems that are you [TS]

  more or less a like systematized [TS]

  segregation and there isn't enough real [TS]

  reckoning and it doesn't have to [TS]

  it doesn't have to take this form of [TS]

  like prostration it doesn't really [TS]

  involve even like being apologetic fake [TS]

  or otherwise it's like a real [TS]

  acknowledgement of and and you know and [TS]

  hopefully an acknowledgement of your of [TS]

  your power without shame [TS]

  exactly you know like shame does not not [TS]

  empowering it isn't empowering for [TS]

  anybody and it doesn't accomplish [TS]

  anything except to make you to continue [TS]

  making it all about you [TS]

  yeah exactly and so to acknowledge your [TS]

  privilege in your power and then try to [TS]

  find a but to acknowledge it in some [TS]

  ways even with pride and say how can I [TS]

  now use this privilege map and that's [TS]

  mean that the people who are who resist [TS]

  the black lives matter narrative Roger [TS]

  that are terrific terrific example you [TS]

  know it's not just that that they feel [TS]

  like they're they feel like their guns [TS]

  are I mean that that's that's way down [TS]

  the line they're afraid that we're [TS]

  saying the cops are you know just the [TS]

  only independent depends on how you [TS]

  choose to finish that statement that [TS]

  doesn't really need to be finished black [TS]

  lives matter and to a lot of people here [TS]

  that I don't happen to agree but to them [TS]

  that statement is all black lives matter [TS]

  to the exclusion of other people right [TS]

  black lives matter more [TS]

  or or lack lives the the fact that black [TS]

  lives matter is going to is going to [TS]

  translate into more entitlements for [TS]

  them who that are not afforded to me and [TS]

  I'm also poor so what you know where it [TS]

  and I so I how to how to get out of this [TS]

  reflective state of liberal apology [TS]

  where every where every statement is [TS]

  preceded with a caveat that that you [TS]

  know that you acknowledge your you [TS]

  acknowledge that your voice isn't the [TS]

  voice that's needed here or whatever you [TS]

  know to to proceed from that into a [TS]

  place where we are where we are actively [TS]

  trying to make a case and actively [TS]

  trying to be articulate about it and [TS]

  that begins with us acknowledging what [TS]

  our case is huh [TS]

  and I don't know how I mean I've spent [TS]

  my entire life trying to figure out what [TS]

  those words we hold these truths to be [TS]

  self-evident mean I mean I really have [TS]

  my whole adult life I have turned those [TS]

  words over in my head because they are [TS]

  that's its Jefferson's way of going uh [TS]

  right well I mean like no I'm sorry I'm [TS]

  being glib but it's a way of saying [TS]

  self-evident is all the in that case [TS]

  that's that is his supernal sanction is [TS]

  that there's nothing even even beyond [TS]

  God and law this is self-evident that [TS]

  this is the age of the Age of [TS]

  Enlightenment this is something that we [TS]

  can look at and and go this equals [TS]

  equals this like this is truth [TS]

  well and that the thing is that my that [TS]

  the founders were really at odds with [TS]

  one another about this mm and Jeff and [TS]

  my understanding my understanding of it [TS]

  is that Jefferson actually his first [TS]

  draft actually used a lot more sort of [TS]

  quasi religious language and it was it [TS]

  was Ben Franklin who sort of made the [TS]

  suggestion of the term self-evident [TS]

  because you know Jefferson was maybe [TS]

  more of a [TS]

  more of a DSS and and initially said we [TS]

  hold these truths to be sacred and [TS]

  franklin was the one that said that [TS]

  implies too much that introduces too [TS]

  much God and let's let's change it and [TS]

  so that collaboration between them [TS]

  Jefferson the sort of scientific New [TS]

  Englander I'm sorry Franklin the [TS]

  scientific New Englander vs Jefferson [TS]

  was sort of scientific southern [TS]

  philosopher you know I mean just the [TS]

  just those two the push and pull between [TS]

  between those two you know interacts but [TS]

  it'sit's such a kick the can down the [TS]

  road moment like so bad i mean if he had [TS]

  said sacred we hold these truths to be [TS]

  sacred we would be in a bit I think [TS]

  would be a different country and I think [TS]

  we'd be arguing it from a different [TS]

  place because we would be people that [TS]

  share my world view would be at a [TS]

  disadvantage right now we would be [TS]

  saying like if it I you know like if it [TS]

  isn't sacred then what is it then the [TS]

  whole than the the whole edifice starts [TS]

  to crumble and Franklin just got this [TS]

  little he just planted this pole there [TS]

  with self-evident undefined and it's [TS]

  given us this it's given us 250 years to [TS]

  debate it and here we are still [TS]

  I'll put it out don't worry I wouldn't [TS]

  why would why would you not [TS]

  of course it would where are you going [TS]

  to end it there with the lip-smacking [TS]

  all feedback goes to Roderick online and [TS]

  example.com its mark on the line at [TS]

  example.com whatever you do people get [TS]

  out there and folk holy shit [TS]

  oh my goodness oh it was good [TS]