Roderick on the Line

Ep. 204: "Soul Memory"

 

  this episode of Roderick on the line is [TS]

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  [Music] [TS]

  hello hi John hi Merlin hmm how's it [TS]

  going well hello Merlin Lou goodbye [TS]

  heart [TS]

  Marilyn some so in love with you come [TS]

  that's Roderick's clown and it's Daisy's [TS]

  mom down the stream and getting the [TS]

  cocoon [TS]

  did you watch the young ones when you're [TS]

  coming up i did have you heard the news [TS]

  uh there's a there's there's young ones [TS]

  news take it they break it [TS]

  were you aware that there was a fifth [TS]

  roommate uh it was yeah I was Sergei or [TS]

  whatever [TS]

  yeah let's say collection which they [TS]

  sell its funny I was just saying to a [TS]

  great interview with him know I kind of [TS]

  spoil this for you blow your mind but it [TS]

  wasn't the squirrel [TS]

  oh and the explaining to me and smiling [TS]

  talking tomatoes [TS]

  huh no there's a fifth roommate in some [TS]

  production stills or like promotional [TS]

  shots you'll see the four guys and then [TS]

  this one looks it looks kinda like [TS]

  cousin it where it's obviously like a [TS]

  woman with long hair with her hair [TS]

  combed over her face she makes an [TS]

  appearance in every episode of the first [TS]

  season and I've seen those shows a lot [TS]

  mark and I never saw her she's usually [TS]

  in the background and once you see it [TS]

  first of all it's incredibly wild that [TS]

  you never notice that she's there but [TS]

  she's also incredibly creepy because [TS]

  she's just like sitting like crouched in [TS]

  the background behind the couch with [TS]

  hair interface and it's it's gonna blow [TS]

  your mind when you see what [TS]

  yes yes oh yeah like seen that I've seen [TS]

  a whole bunch of time she just sitting [TS]

  there in the shadows and it's she looks [TS]

  like a Korean water ghost it's totally [TS]

  freaky ok [TS]

  yes that's something that Google am i [TS]

  right all right i'll send you they'll [TS]

  send me some some supporting footage [TS]

  ok but I heard about it I was like oh is [TS]

  this could be one of those things you [TS]

  know those things on the internet but [TS]

  yeah [TS]

  can internet fingers are gonna be a real [TS]

  thing I I got to be honest we got that [TS]

  was gonna be an internet thing but she's [TS]

  just she's just in the background [TS]

  she's in like some party there's a party [TS]

  scene where everybody's doing bong hits [TS]

  and she's at the party but other than [TS]

  that mostly I think she's intermittently [TS]

  occasionally there after the first as a [TS]

  series but the the first season [TS]

  she's in at least once and sometimes [TS]

  many times in every episode somewhere in [TS]

  the background not participating in the [TS]

  scene really maybe it's horrifying [TS]

  uh ok it's nice to find those kinds of [TS]

  things out yeah that's what they call an [TS]

  easter egg am i right that's right you [TS]

  got [TS]

  well done was done easter egg donor for [TS]

  change on tied with no I know a lot [TS]

  about things from 4chan this is the [TS]

  thing here's the thing about you a lot [TS]

  of people don't know is that there's a [TS]

  lot of people don't know about you and I [TS]

  like that I like that you you are you [TS]

  deploy personal information [TS]

  tactically you don't need to let [TS]

  everybody know you like no know a lot [TS]

  about a thing guy like this little bit [TS]

  TG dribble it dribbles John dribbles out [TS]

  at his pleasure you gotta dribble what I [TS]

  do feel [TS]

  did you just hear a sound that sounded [TS]

  like traffic noise in the nineteen [TS]

  seventies movie i think that was met my [TS]

  little cousin act like exhaling like oh [TS]

  maybe maybe being actually sound like Oh [TS]

  Jack it did for a brief second [TS]

  do you remember in the nineteen [TS]

  seventies where ya remember that traffic [TS]

  sounded a lot louder who the seventies [TS]

  yes it you only hear that volume of [TS]

  traffic like you're in manhattan or in [TS]

  some cases in my neighborhood if you [TS]

  ever like call me when I walk down the [TS]

  street it's it's the trains going by its [TS]

  deafening but growing up in the suburbs [TS]

  I always thought you're making this up [TS]

  there's no way traffic is this loud [TS]

  well a bit like so this is something [TS]

  that you know that the millenniums might [TS]

  not know and even even a Generation Xers [TS]

  might not remember but there was a time [TS]

  when there were no governor's on the [TS]

  loudness of car horns [TS]

  so all car horns that came out of you [TS]

  know Detroit in the sixties and [TS]

  seventies you hit your car horn it was [TS]

  like a boat horn oh yeah I under an old [TS]

  American an old American sedan like you [TS]

  would get an F sharp from hell [TS]

  like you really really heard it and matt [TS]

  and so in the city's this was before [TS]

  there were a lot of campaigns for [TS]

  traffic politeness [TS]

  yeah cars would pile up and they would [TS]

  just be honking honking honking that's [TS]

  the human condition right there isn't it [TS]

  was a deafening noise or unhappy [TS]

  there's nothing we can do about it so we [TS]

  might as well be unpleasant man mark [TS]

  lugar whatever and oh yeah and there are [TS]

  still cars the window go sure after [TS]

  jimmy carter and that's so later on it [TS]

  was such a problem cities were so loud [TS]

  that they actually passed ordinances and [TS]

  and and then furthermore laws that [TS]

  governed the the volume of a car horn so [TS]

  that your car could only be a certain [TS]

  number of Billy actually a minute you [TS]

  tell me this is a thing [TS]

  yeah they actually mommy stated the [TS]

  volume of car horns because it because [TS]

  noise pollution was such a problem the [TS]

  whole concept of noise pollution and you [TS]

  know and all the starters when people [TS]

  first started talking about that let me [TS]

  interrupt you but you know for a long [TS]

  time you can understand air pollution [TS]

  because it's hard to breathe [TS]

  you understand water pollution because [TS]

  we know we can drink the large breed [TS]

  water you can understand you don't want [TS]

  dioxin in the eggs like we understand [TS]

  all that but when people first I think [TS]

  it was the seventies equivalent of the [TS]

  word microaggressions when people first [TS]

  heard that they were like really now [TS]

  noise pollution [TS]

  yeah but it was it was so noticeable [TS]

  when they governed the volume of car [TS]

  horns like it made a tremendous impact [TS]

  on quality of life in cities like right [TS]

  away and [TS]

  and then they took other steps to get to [TS]

  mandate that your your city factory and [TS]

  your city you know your enterprises have [TS]

  also be conscious of the noise that they [TS]

  were producing and I think you know car [TS]

  mufflers were a lot louder than it it [TS]

  was it was kind of considered an element [TS]

  of of a cool car that it'd be really [TS]

  loud just sitting there idling you could [TS]

  buy cherry bombs you could buy thrush [TS]

  that's right goodbye glasspack people [TS]

  might vaguely remember seeing a woody [TS]

  the woodpecker type character on the [TS]

  back of a muscle car and thought what [TS]

  was that [TS]

  that means that's a person who pay to [TS]

  have their cargo pom-pom rubber-like so [TS]

  it was fucking loud you know in the city [TS]

  and everyone will be watching like an [TS]

  old nineteen seventies movie and then [TS]

  we'll just be a traffic scene where [TS]

  that's just sort of an interstitial [TS]

  moment in the film but i'll have this [TS]

  powerful recollection of like oh wow [TS]

  that's right it used to sound like that [TS]

  yep and now it does not sound like that [TS]

  it sounds like this and it's a major [TS]

  change like I had a type of have a sense [TS]

  memory or you know like a soul memory [TS]

  cloud town to town I get that I've had [TS]

  the soul memories means what's your [TS]

  biggest soul memory Merlin oh man i had [TS]

  one the other day [TS]

  oh I had one that came out of nowhere [TS]

  iĆ­ve spoken periodically about my [TS]

  various best friends in life and from [TS]

  different areas like for example a [TS]

  couple years ago I reconnected with my [TS]

  best friend from first grade on Twitter [TS]

  whoa who as it turns out is the [TS]

  executive producer of many television [TS]

  shows now really I just known as the guy [TS]

  he's the first that god bless you rob [TS]

  hope you're out there [TS]

  I'm not listening he's kinda busy you [TS]

  know you can hit TV shows but he's the [TS]

  first fella with which I competed to see [TS]

  how far we could pee from the urinal [TS]

  that's big [TS]

  the first guy you ever do that with you [TS]

  see what's not technically a sword fight [TS]

  and get into that until until college [TS]

  but but seeing how far you can step away [TS]

  from the urinal heavy stream still go so [TS]

  i connect with people sometimes [TS]

  friends but I had a one of my dear old [TS]

  friends was my friend John from MSA when [TS]

  I was 17 when I was 11 or 12 like almost [TS]

  every weekend we were at each others [TS]

  house like sleeping over and he got me [TS]

  into comics got he abused my first [TS]

  person I knew who was really into lord [TS]

  of the rings my uber nerd friend and at [TS]

  one point he got 2 i'm going somewhere [TS]

  with this at one point he got to move in [TS]

  upstairs to your house and his he was [TS]

  there for two seasons and their song [TS]

  always had his hair over his face live [TS]

  in the Attic by the way you by the way [TS]

  check your messages that Justin photos [TS]

  okay um so John got to move from his [TS]

  room on the main floor to up into the [TS]

  Attic which isn't you know fairly [TS]

  finished attic it didn't have a bathroom [TS]

  but it had too little of the big bedroom [TS]

  and then a little bedroom also he he was [TS]

  granted the right yeah he got a couple [TS]

  nice accommodations i can tell you about [TS]

  you you're not gonna believe what this [TS]

  guy got but so that was awesome because [TS]

  we got the only to do anything like bad [TS]

  we were like the ultimate good kids we [TS]

  SAT around and talked about the indie or [TS]

  whatever but like but what I really [TS]

  remember is that that's also where they [TS]

  put the cat box and I don't know if you [TS]

  remember cat boxes from the seventies [TS]

  but a cat box from the seventies I can [TS]

  just tell you that somebody who now has [TS]

  a cat with two boxes there damn side [TS]

  away from cat boxes today we were your [TS]

  counters to cat boxes kind of standard [TS]

  now yeah why is it standard is this some [TS]

  kind of this is some kind of thing i'm [TS]

  happy to circle back to it is a life [TS]

  hack [TS]

  it's kind of a life hack he has a cat [TS]

  that's a cataract yet you couldn't [TS]

  believe what happens in extra yeah look [TS]

  at that park is one amazing trick cat [TS]

  boxes could pollute 900 square feet of a [TS]

  thousand square foot apartment [TS]

  oh my goodness i don't know if it's what [TS]

  the cats were eating or drinking I don't [TS]

  know if they were remember their [TS]

  metabolism i think john siracusa would [TS]

  would call it adaptation or aurora blues [TS]

  evolution I'd like the i think it is the [TS]

  quality of litter i think it is the [TS]

  notarizing litoris non scooping nine and [TS]

  so like that the thing is I always did [TS]

  was I was in and this gets the second [TS]

  accommodation that John got later which [TS]

  I'd love to tell you about but I was [TS]

  sitting there just for some reason I [TS]

  think about how cool it was I get the [TS]

  John's house [TS]

  I'm a bag we go upstairs we will go up [TS]

  the steps and I just I suddenly got [TS]

  smacked in the face with this was all [TS]

  memory with this sense memory of that [TS]

  cat box and it was nineteen [TS]

  seventy-eight all over again I smelled [TS]

  it I smelled the accurate ammonia can [TS]

  smell so clearly it was its name printed [TS]

  on it it's the canonical cat box in my [TS]

  head is is john scott which was named [TS]

  Blackie they had a cat named blocking a [TS]

  dog Blackie ah understand the dog the [TS]

  dog was scared the cat will chase the [TS]

  dog was the doors course I'm not look [TS]

  good because you're living in a sitcom [TS]

  that done you know my dad's cat was [TS]

  named puppy [TS]

  oh yeah and then when puppy died young [TS]

  mother cat named the puppy 20 see that's [TS]

  a nice story about your dad so adorbs [TS]

  did you look at the photos yeah uh-huh I [TS]

  don't want to look at your going to [TS]

  sleep now [TS]

  I mean you don't sleep you're gonna [TS]

  sleep twice on the one hand you're gonna [TS]

  go holy shit i've watched that show you [TS]

  see each of those shows at least once [TS]

  oh yeah also that's weird but now look [TS]

  at that photo doesn't that look like [TS]

  something from like a japanese horror [TS]

  film [TS]

  well enough and the problem is when i [TS]

  first saw it I was like I don't think I [TS]

  had a soul memory but I did have some [TS]

  sense of like oh I knew that but I can't [TS]

  remember knowing it light like I don't I [TS]

  i think i noticed that person before but [TS]

  it would have been 1984 and I don't [TS]

  remember why or what [TS]

  because they never interact with her [TS]

  you're probably you're probably I mean [TS]

  our case it was usually eventually watch [TS]

  them on video but they were I think they [TS]

  want MTV they were all in the u.s. a few [TS]

  years after they were in England and you [TS]

  know we hopped up on mountain dew I [TS]

  should do as you as you do you know you [TS]

  do [TS]

  wang right now we're Guy Fieri for young [TS]

  once i have the other day on facebook [TS]

  there's a there are a couple of [TS]

  reporters let's call them reporters [TS]

  votes for the stranger alternative [TS]

  newspaper here in Seattle yeah who are a [TS]

  just young enough that they still well [TS]

  they're not young enough that they can [TS]

  with any right maintain the incredibly [TS]

  arrogant narrow-minded progressivism [TS]

  that they do at the you know like it's a [TS]

  they could if they were 20 you if you [TS]

  might find it believable but they're [TS]

  like 30 and writing the political [TS]

  columns for a local alternative paper [TS]

  and just like durable oh my god they're [TS]

  so awful and one of their surroundings [TS]

  so confident [TS]

  yeah sure you look at them when you're [TS]

  like I wish I was as confident about [TS]

  anything as you are about whatever you [TS]

  think this week [TS]

  yeah and I mean and there they literally [TS]

  like in the newspaper clench their fists [TS]

  and stamp their feet and go man [TS]

  and they're right you know there's some [TS]

  article in the in the paper the other [TS]

  day about how many homelessness is man [TS]

  people are bad people that wear ties [TS]

  irme and and Shawn Nelson posted on his [TS]

  Facebook page and I know for a fact that [TS]

  Sean this is a person as a co-worker of [TS]

  Sean's sean is very gracious about [TS]

  retuning things from his colleagues [TS]

  that's right that's what he does in his [TS]

  role as what is actual tip title there [TS]

  was an editor of he's like this big shot [TS]

  there is the life life editor you know [TS]

  whatever the liberal arts editor [TS]

  somebody posted this without comments [TS]

  and i think or with with the with an [TS]

  oblique comment such that ninety percent [TS]

  of the people could read it and and he [TS]

  would be doing that new yorker thing of [TS]

  like retweeting his colleagues but a few [TS]

  of us recognize that he was retweeting [TS]

  it without comment because he despises [TS]

  this person and a like personally [TS]

  despise them and despises it and and [TS]

  doesn't like working with him and all [TS]

  these and I read the article and it was [TS]

  just like me and so I remember road in [TS]

  the comment you know reading this guy's [TS]

  like reading Rick from the young ones [TS]

  journal [TS]

  haha fascist name and so the guy the [TS]

  writer then comments after me because of [TS]

  course right of course [TS]

  sure what is linkedin the article he's [TS]

  like I'm sorry I don't get that [TS]

  reference [TS]

  oh if only there was some way to find [TS]

  out what that reference was I know and [TS]

  so I so I think there are some places [TS]

  you could go and say Rick from the young [TS]

  ones in your mind out what that if only [TS]

  if only he probably doesn't have an [TS]

  Apple watch where you do that because an [TS]

  Apple watch is part of the you know as [TS]

  part of colonialism but in any case MIT [TS]

  so i replied oh don't worry about it [TS]

  it's a reference from the sixties and [TS]

  yeah I felt like that was that was [TS]

  exactly how many laughs that was worth [TS]

  like to has but it was at least I felt [TS]

  good about it its reference from the [TS]

  sixties go fuck yourself a break from [TS]

  the young ones I yes you were talking [TS]

  about finding your first grade friend [TS]

  who you tried to pee [TS]

  as far as you could it was a very gentle [TS]

  kind of competition it was almost a [TS]

  journey of self-discovery when men see [TS]

  how far from the urinal they can get [TS]

  it's not really a pissing contest is the [TS]

  ironic part it's more it's a form of [TS]

  bonding really it's not it's funny that [TS]

  it got that term pissing contest but it [TS]

  is really more way of saying let's see [TS]

  what we can do with this business when [TS]

  they're there [TS]

  I've been in there two different kinds [TS]

  of pissing contest i was in there one [TS]

  was with the Catholic priest on the [TS]

  outside wall of the fish bar in in [TS]

  Ketchum Idaho which it with David well [TS]

  regular listeners to show will recognize [TS]

  this as coming from the episode members [TS]

  of a lot of six but and then there was [TS]

  Peter no sec who was able who was taught [TS]

  by his father to be able to pee over his [TS]

  own shoulder that's tremendous which we [TS]

  made how many times you got that wrong [TS]

  he stuck with it [TS]

  yeah right and and Peter and his father [TS]

  I mean neither one of them were [TS]

  especially tall and I think that's an [TS]

  advantage when you're trying to be over [TS]

  your own shoulder but also a lot of [TS]

  stream control and we'd be out somewhere [TS]

  you know drinking [TS]

  beer and shooting guns and we have to go [TS]

  pee and we go over start peeing in the [TS]

  ditch or whatever and then Peter would [TS]

  he do this like pretty cool contortion [TS]

  you drop a shoulder lean back a little [TS]

  bit you know like penis in hand and then [TS]

  just the P would he would just start [TS]

  just directing it over his shoulder and [TS]

  could just [TS]

  oh my god it was a for an [TS]

  eighteen-year-old truly uncomfortable [TS]

  talent I would never have tried it you [TS]

  know there's no way i would would would [TS]

  be able to get away with this sunday [TS]

  night everything that's the kind of [TS]

  thing that if memory serves that's kind [TS]

  of thing that makes you what I will call [TS]

  a local legend [TS]

  yeah like you're not going to appear in [TS]

  journals probably you're not gonna be [TS]

  featured in national magazine but you're [TS]

  going to become that one guy that can do [TS]

  that thing we got to compete over [TS]

  shoulder and Peter had many many of [TS]

  these talents [TS]

  oh god bless him he was a he was a he [TS]

  certainly is remains a legend to me but [TS]

  I would you as you said that I realized [TS]

  that my childhood best friend was a kid [TS]

  named aaron kinnaman and over the years [TS]

  over the last 20 years I have searched [TS]

  for Aaron kinnaman innumerable times [TS]

  trying to have the same experience that [TS]

  you're having of like my first-grade [TS]

  friend that blah blah but I had a lot of [TS]

  experiences with aaron kinnaman who he's [TS]

  got the out there gotta be leaving a [TS]

  trail but he's not [TS]

  and the problem is I don't know how to [TS]

  spell kinnaman oh yeah like they're 14 [TS]

  different possible spellings of cinnamon [TS]

  and I've tried them all and there's just [TS]

  nothing and it astonishes me to be in it [TS]

  in our contemporary life and have an [TS]

  errand kidman is not the only one there [TS]

  is not the only person from my past that [TS]

  I have tried to find on the internet [TS]

  that there's just nothing there's just [TS]

  not a single trace not even those those [TS]

  terrible like white pages that way we [TS]

  can find this person [TS]

  in in you know in this lesson such city [TS]

  yeah so how do you how do you live in [TS]

  the modern world and be completely [TS]

  invisible on the internet i know there [TS]

  are millions and millions billions let's [TS]

  say of people to pull it off but uh but [TS]

  it's still like as somebody who spent a [TS]

  lot of time on 1400 it's hard for me to [TS]

  imagine that even if I wanted to docs [TS]

  Aaron kinnaman I could [TS]

  oh that's frustrating it's very [TS]

  frustrating it's weird because everybody [TS]

  leaves a trail you know that's what when [TS]

  you see this is all like a little bit [TS]

  inside baseball here when somebody shows [TS]

  up on the scene and is being very [TS]

  provocative especially through the shape [TS]

  of being somebody in their twenties one [TS]

  thing you can do in this is not anything [TS]

  your dachshund but it's more like okay [TS]

  so this person purports to be somebody [TS]

  who's in the internet sphere and it's [TS]

  definitely not a stock pot but like you [TS]

  can go out you should be able to find [TS]

  something about them not something just [TS]

  embarrassing but everybody leaves a [TS]

  trail these days of just like some dumb [TS]

  thing you forgot about like you in a [TS]

  talent show you know there's something [TS]

  somewhere in when none of that stuff [TS]

  appears at all it feels weird feels [TS]

  weird and I'm not trying to be creepy [TS]

  but I'm just trying to say like this is [TS]

  just a fact of life that if you're [TS]

  somebody these days you know that's [TS]

  that's something that's a thing but it [TS]

  is strange somebody who's in their [TS]

  forties you can't find anything about [TS]

  them [TS]

  Yeah Yeah right like a like well I'm [TS]

  trying to I'm trying to think of i mean [TS]

  ok he doesn't have a linkedin profile he [TS]

  was smart [TS]

  yeah he doesn't have a facebook but like [TS]

  his kids never tagged him in anything [TS]

  yes those kids don't have a I mean it's [TS]

  just it's very frustrating me because [TS]

  there are a few people from my past that [TS]

  I would like to get in contact with and [TS]

  compare that to all the people i am in [TS]

  contact with from my past that I would [TS]

  rather not be in contact with it's just [TS]

  it's very frustrating [TS]

  uh-huh there's an idea to grow in [TS]

  college named latonia wheeler you should [TS]

  be able to find latonia wheeler you [TS]

  should be able to be care and somebody [TS]

  will now John I don't think so my [TS]

  challenge you in [TS]

  boy please don't challenge ok don't know [TS]

  no stop you were you I could hear you [TS]

  internet all sharpening your pencils are [TS]

  getting getting your yellow legal pads [TS]

  out stop get off your virtual pad stop [TS]

  it go back into in animating gifts [TS]

  John's a grandmother was married to a [TS]

  guy for a long time and he passed away [TS]

  and they decided that John's grandmother [TS]

  with a call when they called money she [TS]

  was awesome naughty was going to move in [TS]

  with them so John's dad who is a handy [TS]

  guy and was like a woodworker and a [TS]

  Michigan accent I'm sorry the machinist [TS]

  who worked at one of the great machining [TS]

  plants in Cincinnati all the great [TS]

  machine plants all the great machine [TS]

  play Cincinnati actually since the [TS]

  cincinnati milacron like they made the [TS]

  tools that they made the precision tools [TS]

  that made the precision tools and since [TS]

  any of the tools that made the pursuits [TS]

  of the workshop in it [TS]

  unfortunately that is really went away [TS]

  quite a while ago by all the tools the [TS]

  tools that you did know you need to make [TS]

  all the tools you never knew you needed [TS]

  oh it's in Cincinnati well it's a daddy [TS]

  making all the two easy text I got kind [TS]

  of time making tools and unpacking lots [TS]

  of tools making lots of to do be do be [TS]

  do that show makes no fucking sense [TS]

  without the original music oh my god [TS]

  it's so insane doing right but this is [TS]

  last train coming by the Doobie Brothers [TS]

  and it's like really good oh yeah the [TS]

  dx7 with some synthetic food want want [TS]

  want so John's dad is quick set himself [TS]

  to the task of going through their [TS]

  unfinished basement and making an [TS]

  apartment for her how great is this [TS]

  unfinished basement is an incredible [TS]

  album 2 3 4 and so John John's dad made [TS]

  her a beautiful apartment with like a [TS]

  full bath [TS]

  you know with the shower gels for he put [TS]

  in like I don't have the false floor [TS]

  oh you sent to get high like like German [TS]

  bearer bonds [TS]

  no not like a Al Capone false floor was [TS]

  not like a concrete floor is carpeted [TS]

  and whatnot OIC ok you had a big nap too [TS]

  I mean this is you know this is the [TS]

  seventies sure was napping so anyway [TS]

  long story short the made this and she [TS]

  lived there for a long time and she [TS]

  helped with the kids and she was awesome [TS]

  and then you know I'm Kenley enough she [TS]

  got married to another guy at our church [TS]

  i can just use sixties she was probably [TS]

  48 years old that's what's so [TS]

  frustrating [TS]

  she's already a great grandmother was a [TS]

  grandma 51 years only dipped his camels [TS]

  and makers mark uh and so then when she [TS]

  moved out with Jim Beall dr. Beale then [TS]

  John graduated from getting to be in the [TS]

  place upstairs to getting the entire [TS]

  finished basement she had his own [TS]

  apartment inside the house when he was [TS]

  11 so when he was eleven past this is [TS]

  this is this is when we were pals I went [TS]

  through John having the original room [TS]

  into John having the upstairs room into [TS]

  John graduating down into the room and a [TS]

  ping-pong table be all down there and it [TS]

  was against had his own little house and [TS]

  start inside of the house it was [TS]

  astonishing [TS]

  the thing was we were good kids we were [TS]

  good Christian kids like what we what [TS]

  was like the worst thing we did was [TS]

  watching other people do fireworks one [TS]

  of the kids was really injured a betty [TS]

  was burned he had to wear thing on his [TS]

  neck [TS]

  I this happened to command an apartment [TS]

  in about your own apartment isn't that [TS]

  kind of what this is john hodgman stream [TS]

  right well John Hodgman actually had [TS]

  like a whole half of the house that this [TS]

  but I actually had the same experience [TS]

  like my when my mom moved into her new [TS]

  house when I was in ninth grade right [TS]

  before ninth grade [TS]

  this was the period when she decided [TS]

  that I was so incorrigible that the way [TS]

  she was going to punish me was by making [TS]

  me go live with my father who and so she [TS]

  moved into the new house and there was a [TS]

  bedroom in there that was that should [TS]

  have been my bedroom but she turned it [TS]

  into like the fern room for the sewing [TS]

  room or something and she was like your [TS]

  gift wrapping your gift wrapping give [TS]

  the gift wrapping and that's exactly [TS]

  what it was right just like a bunch of [TS]

  someone with a giant fuck you to [TS]

  somebody in your family to have a room [TS]

  for wrapping presents [TS]

  it's a bedroom in the house and my mom [TS]

  basically climbed into it and said this [TS]

  is my dog crate [TS]

  actually just populated it with all a [TS]

  bunch of moms shit just to say like even [TS]

  if you do move in here and put posters [TS]

  of Porsches on the wall it's never gonna [TS]

  feel like yours because the first thing [TS]

  that was in here was a sewing machine [TS]

  and so I went to live with my dad you [TS]

  know I've told this story [TS]

  yeah but uh but then i moved into that [TS]

  room and then over the course of time [TS]

  like it was just clear that it was that [TS]

  wasn't i needed to be somewhat more [TS]

  sequestered and we had a large basement [TS]

  in this house footprint of an entire [TS]

  floor that was that was a sunken bayer I [TS]

  mean three of the four walls were just [TS]

  were just windowless walls and then the [TS]

  back wall was all windows and and a [TS]

  sliding glass door except it was [TS]

  underneath a covered porch that was on [TS]

  the second floor [TS]

  so basically this entire basement never [TS]

  saw the Sun there was daylight coming in [TS]

  from one wall but it was Alaska so in [TS]

  the wintertime that daylight amounted to [TS]

  nothing basically you know the sun came [TS]

  up at ten and went down at two so there [TS]

  was no it was dark and then in the style [TS]

  of the seven slate sixties early [TS]

  seventies when they built this place [TS]

  their decision on how to how to hack it [TS]

  out that basement was they panel the [TS]

  walls in unfinished rough sawn wood like [TS]

  a barn so the walls were barnwood which [TS]

  is as as you know is very reflective and [TS]

  really light and cheery know that was [TS]

  sarcasm [TS]

  it's not yeah and and then they built [TS]

  this year like it's like you're living [TS]

  in something that was meant to contain [TS]

  other number [TS]

  yeah right or meant to contain livestock [TS]

  of the end the kind of livestock that is [TS]

  invaluable and then the lighting they up [TS]

  along the walls they built this they [TS]

  built these sort of like how would you [TS]

  describe them [TS]

  they were cantilever little not little [TS]

  enormous light fixtures with that sort [TS]

  of bumpy plastic sheeting inside you [TS]

  know the sort of bumpy translucent [TS]

  sheets of a bumpy plastic I think I know [TS]

  yeah and then each light fixture had [TS]

  four light bulbs in it and there were [TS]

  ten of these light fixtures throughout [TS]

  the basement so 40 lightbulbs going to [TS]

  illuminate this basement and the boxes [TS]

  were also built out of barnwood the [TS]

  light boxes were built at a barn wood [TS]

  with this bumpy translucent plastic such [TS]

  that 40 lightbulbs going at once could [TS]

  not like produce almost no light it [TS]

  still felt like you were here in this [TS]

  sounds like a John McCain jail like you [TS]

  know you were in Batman's layer [TS]

  yeah if a Batman Slayer was made up of [TS]

  it was a barn if Batman's cables a barn [TS]

  something hard place to be cheerful it [TS]

  was pretty do me but it was built in [TS]

  this in the early settler late sixties [TS]

  let's say as a party space so there was [TS]

  a bar with like orange it was like an [TS]

  orange bar with the sink in a [TS]

  refrigerator and a and shelves for [TS]

  glasses and & boos and then around the [TS]

  back there was a sauna and up like a [TS]

  tanning bed in the olds in the old style [TS]

  which is a piece of foam on a on a bench [TS]

  also orange and then two light bulbs of [TS]

  this business pitiless sunlamps yeah [TS]

  tanning bulbs not that mana tanning bed [TS]

  with those neon bulbs but like like yeah [TS]

  red hot red Sun bulbs [TS]

  what were they called and what you're [TS]

  talking about your tanning lamps getting [TS]

  like you would get these things and they [TS]

  were getting credibly hot and they I [TS]

  mean I don't know much about the effects [TS]

  of light spectra on our cells and stuff [TS]

  but they're pretty cancer e yeah they [TS]

  produce [TS]

  ultraviolet light of you get burned real [TS]

  fast on those things one way or another [TS]

  and so there was a sauna and these UV [TS]

  bulbs and what it sounds like somebody's [TS]

  little uh suburban torture dungeon [TS]

  sounds well and to make it to you know [TS]

  took to finish out the other meetups [TS]

  hanging from the signal to finish out [TS]

  the decoration yeah there was a giant a [TS]

  doll sheep head out here hanging on the [TS]

  wall above the television so there was [TS]

  this like there's this and it was a big [TS]

  sheep that had been killed by my mom's [TS]

  boyfriend who's his that was his little [TS]

  bit of addition to the to the decor [TS]

  that's what he does which is just to [TS]

  keep huh [TS]

  so when you were down when you were down [TS]

  in the basement with all 40 lights [TS]

  burning reduce producing the [TS]

  illumination of like mm dusk dusk in a [TS]

  storm just get a sandstorm you would [TS]

  look up and this like dead sheep would [TS]

  be eyeballing you and no matter where [TS]

  you were in the room the sheep was [TS]

  looking at you and at a certain point my [TS]

  mom was like why don't you just live in [TS]

  the basement and so that they put a bed [TS]

  down there [TS]

  thankfully sort of close to the windows [TS]

  so that the so I had a sense of light [TS]

  but that was fine with me like I was a [TS]

  cave dweller anyway and i had my own I [TS]

  never used the sauna [TS]

  no one did it just became a place just [TS]

  to put the christmas wrapping and I [TS]

  never used the tanning bed and I never [TS]

  used the bar for anything but I had this [TS]

  enormous space that was mine that I [TS]

  could you know I could shoot bows and [TS]

  arrows down there it was really educate [TS]

  their knives you absolutely could throw [TS]

  anything like more anything I had a [TS]

  12-foot long bullwhip and I would sit [TS]

  down there and practice with until I [TS]

  until I hurt myself very badly and then [TS]

  I would hang it in the closet again and [TS]

  say just stop playing the bull weapon [TS]

  please leave it every time you do it you [TS]

  have a really good time for five minutes [TS]

  and then you laugh [TS]

  surrender yourself you're so close to [TS]

  needing an eyepatch you do not know how [TS]

  to use this thing stop playing with it [TS]

  and then I would you know I'd see it [TS]

  again I'd be like move this time I'm [TS]

  gonna get it this time gonna be like [TS]

  done time it's exactly would be able to [TS]

  take a gun out of somebody's hand with [TS]

  and they don't come back in and strikes [TS]

  out now [TS]

  Wow but it was a it was a good and a [TS]

  really good time down there we had [TS]

  that's where we put our IBM pc with 64k [TS]

  sweet a lot of K there's a lot of K i [TS]

  had had you know that's where I would go [TS]

  make out with my first girlfriend but [TS]

  you know I also was I wasn't the type of [TS]

  like nerdy good kid that would watch [TS]

  other people do fireworks but I wasn't [TS]

  down I wasn't having orgies down there [TS]

  anything now my mom one time was [TS]

  wondering why the humidifier didn't work [TS]

  anymore and she opened up the top of the [TS]

  dehumidifier and that didn't work [TS]

  because soup [TS]

  it was full of bottles of booze see she [TS]

  was like this was a good hiding place [TS]

  who you should have just done it just a [TS]

  little bit better so that didn't a for [TS]

  effort John did Miley got an a I didn't [TS]

  affect the operation of the machine was [TS]

  a great idea was the old-fashioned kind [TS]

  of a humidifier that actually LOL oh and [TS]

  up like a puddle of water in the bottom [TS]

  yeah you could sit your liquor bottles [TS]

  in there and keeping cool [TS]

  ah disco wow nice super disco how geez i [TS]

  was very into throwing sharp things i [TS]

  like darts I liked knives sometimes [TS]

  kitchen knives i would take all the [TS]

  kitchen knives and I would see I would [TS]

  try to get the right distance from the [TS]

  wall where we get like you know a couple [TS]

  of turns [TS]

  yeah that was a good feeling and [TS]

  eventually I got into you know throwing [TS]

  star sure construct sure you pick this [TS]

  up at the flea market on sharpen your [TS]

  sharpening yourself and now you could [TS]

  death or sure cans chicken chicken sir [TS]

  did you ever carry shuriken school only [TS]

  my wallet yeah you have loans of me [TS]

  throwing star that you carried in your [TS]

  wallet ya ya later I had a condom i [TS]

  never used but for a time I had the [TS]

  Asher can shape in my wallet and did you [TS]

  to deploy it to the point that no now [TS]

  the better ninjas do not keep their [TS]

  weapons inside of a pouch in their back [TS]

  pocket at least not the primary weapon [TS]

  that might be that might be the one for [TS]

  a few been searched you hope you still [TS]

  have that one like in your sock em but [TS]

  no no no I'm not sure who that was for [TS]

  did you do things like that was clearly [TS]

  for a girl [TS]

  yeah when you pulled your wallet out [TS]

  this is what I pulled out my adam and [TS]

  the ants velcro wall and Asher candidate [TS]

  know this all this here let me let me [TS]

  buy your snow cones through the air bog [TS]

  falls on the graft dog O'Hara yeah you [TS]

  know tell the Chinese character on it [TS]

  so did you think as you're walking [TS]

  around did you pretend as though you [TS]

  were a ninja that was not I was what i [TS]

  would later on get into functional ninja [TS]

  things like mostly running around in [TS]

  people's backyards with a sweatshirt [TS]

  over my head but functional ninja did [TS]

  you ever have the toe shoes [TS]

  no no I didn't go that far we had [TS]

  sweatshirts we had a rubber tracks and [TS]

  later actual nunchucks [TS]

  yeah and we would carry things that we [TS]

  imagined a suburban ninja would need one [TS]

  of the things that defines ninja ms [TS]

  sweatshirts ops you look you look at any [TS]

  yes any of the original literature most [TS]

  ninjas wear sweatshirts so we had that [TS]

  and mainly was just about sneaking [TS]

  around at that point yes I can't imagine [TS]

  how many retirees we scared by like [TS]

  running past the air conditioner at nine [TS]

  o'clock [TS]

  oh they probably weren't thinking ninjas [TS]

  this episode of Roderick on the line is [TS]

  brought to you by Casper to learn more [TS]

  right now please visit Casper calm / [TS]

  supertrain Casper is an online retailer [TS]

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  here's the thing [TS]

  casper mattresses are made in America [TS]

  these are made my mattress nerds they [TS]

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  there the whole thing is different [TS]

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  they're animals [TS]

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  four minutes and show him who wants to [TS]

  do that what kind of animal are you is [TS]

  gonna be a third of your life you gotta [TS]

  really try this thing out run it through [TS]

  its paces [TS]

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  this thing I've had mine for over i [TS]

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  Casper for a great night sleep and for [TS]

  supporting rod on the lines they were [TS]

  probably not thinking ninjas [TS]

  no no I i know huh honey did you see [TS]

  that it's Roger it's just those ninjas [TS]

  again it's the ninjas we have nothing to [TS]

  fear no but see this is again this is a [TS]

  thing I add [TS]

  this has come up in some form or fashion [TS]

  before but you know it's a classic [TS]

  American male thing of like for example [TS]

  I never driven a car but i have seen [TS]

  lots of car driving I've seen fast car [TS]

  driving i'm pretty sure I'd be a good [TS]

  fast car driver I've seen so many fight [TS]

  scenes i bet i'd be pretty great fight [TS]

  sure and in this case like I've seen [TS]

  stealthy my ninjas [TS]

  I certainly if there's anything in my [TS]

  grasp I could be a stealthy ninja i to [TS]

  myself stealthy ninja [TS]

  yes yes I spent a lot of time there were [TS]

  things that Sidewalk home from school [TS]

  and I spent a lot of time fantasizing [TS]

  during the walk home you had your key on [TS]

  a red string happy on red string walking [TS]

  home from school and part of the reason [TS]

  I walked home from school I mean there [TS]

  was a bus but you take the bus and then [TS]

  what would you do you just be home and I [TS]

  wasn't somebody that went home and read [TS]

  comic books or play video games yet get [TS]

  a special projects [TS]

  yeah I would sit at home and just I [TS]

  would stare at the wall if I was at home [TS]

  so why not walk home [TS]

  it would take me an hour or so to walk [TS]

  and I would fantasize the entire way [TS]

  home just just in a state of total dream [TS]

  place right where the the actual like I [TS]

  was perceiving the world outside i was [TS]

  looking at things also but in my mind it [TS]

  was I was far far away and early on one [TS]

  of the things I one of my fantasies was [TS]

  that i lived in a Richie Rich world how [TS]

  I've had that fantasy where I was a very [TS]

  wealthy boy and and I had a bunch of [TS]

  adult things that were scaled-down Allah [TS]

  Bugsy Malone [TS]

  alright so i had a rolls-royce but it [TS]

  was a half-scale rolls-royce silver [TS]

  shadow but it was a half-scale [TS]

  rolls-royce silver shadow so rather than [TS]

  having to walk home I would drive myself [TS]

  home in my imaginarium in my half-size [TS]

  rolls-royce silver shadow now it i would [TS]

  I i'm picturing myself driving this [TS]

  rolls-royce silver shadow on the bike [TS]

  paths of anchorage alaska right out the [TS]

  fantasy doesn't extend to that I'm [TS]

  living in Monaco that's not possible [TS]

  it's not plausible but it's been hearing [TS]

  that [TS]

  scenario you can very easily place that [TS]

  there's all kinds of ways for young [TS]

  person to feel fancy in their head [TS]

  that's right that seems weirdly possible [TS]

  when I see a rolls-royce silver shadow [TS]

  on the road now and most of them only [TS]

  exist as wedding cars anymore but I [TS]

  still picture myself in it and picture [TS]

  both me and the car is being about like [TS]

  three quarter scale i'd love to see that [TS]

  but then I got introduced to lord of the [TS]

  rings as we all do about you know I [TS]

  think even now if you get introduced to [TS]

  lord rings for the first time it [TS]

  immediately transported in 1980 least [TS]

  that's how intelligent like I mean in [TS]

  John's case and you know I i we talking [TS]

  about here we talked about talked about [TS]

  for siracusa it sounds like it's [TS]

  something that somehow most guys who [TS]

  didn't even self identifies a geek or [TS]

  whatever but you discover usually around [TS]

  middle school junior high like late late [TS]

  elementary school middle school junior I [TS]

  that right I'm seventh grade for me and [TS]

  then I was then the concept of all of [TS]

  that and and and lower the Rings and D&D [TS]

  came together for me as as they should [TS]

  as a package deal and then I spent the [TS]

  entire time walking home from school [TS]

  contouring spells [TS]

  oh this is the conjuring era was [TS]

  conjuring spills who misses this is this [TS]

  along that is I'm sorry to interrupt but [TS]

  was later on you and attempt to actually [TS]

  contour that's a little later right [TS]

  little later yeah this was just the [TS]

  beginning of like oh and also also like [TS]

  when I was little kid and people in [TS]

  seattle talked about underground Seattle [TS]

  which is a neighborhood in the on the [TS]

  first avenue that they raised the level [TS]

  of the streets at one point during one [TS]

  of their many redevelopment of downtown [TS]

  and in raising the level of the streets [TS]

  they just they just covered over the [TS]

  first floor of shops and stuff downtown [TS]

  and just decided that now the second [TS]

  floor of buildings were going to be the [TS]

  first floor they get that in Chicago [TS]

  know when they when they wanted to what [TS]

  they had like plumbing or they added [TS]

  like a whole like septic or sewer system [TS]

  and they raised Chicago like a story [TS]

  they raise it up residence in Anchorage [TS]

  during the 64 earthquake and other [TS]

  he's actually fell a story so that they [TS]

  had to authenticate you know they call [TS]

  pancaking here yeah that's not good [TS]

  pancakes bad but the buildings were [TS]

  destroyed they just dropped one story [TS]

  that so the front door of the building [TS]

  alex mica yeah yeah long and they just [TS]

  cut new doors like pretty crazy but [TS]

  people in seattle talk about underground [TS]

  seattle when I was six or seven years [TS]

  old I imagine that that meant that any [TS]

  time you dug in the ground anywhere in [TS]

  Seattle there was a city under there was [TS]

  like a second Seattle underneath where [TS]

  you are you just know how to get there [TS]

  if you know how to get there we duck who [TS]

  does a lot of holes looking for the roof [TS]

  lines of underground seattle but by the [TS]

  time I was in junior high of course I [TS]

  knew there weren't city's underground [TS]

  but I did suspect there might be [TS]

  dungeons room right if you could just [TS]

  find the entrance to the dungeons that [TS]

  were I mean I'd sound like a dumb [TS]

  seventh-grader I wasn't you don't but I [TS]

  mean think about it like he got to the [TS]

  point where you have a city that can [TS]

  sustain she even to of chucky cheese [TS]

  restaurant you have to imagine that [TS]

  somebody had the forethought to put a [TS]

  dungeon in like there's so many many [TS]

  cool things that we hopefully were made [TS]

  i'm guessing probably in the eighteen [TS]

  hundreds that need attention right well [TS]

  but there weren't there [TS]

  1800 didn't play in Anchorage because [TS]

  there was no 1800 language okay but you [TS]

  know what I still think about my own [TS]

  house and how expensive it would be to [TS]

  retro actively install a dungeon or you [TS]

  didn't want titles for awhile tunnels in [TS]

  dungeons and like all my uncle I don't [TS]

  wanna talk about it anymore understand [TS]

  but uh you know i'm not talking about [TS]

  shipping containers be ready in the [TS]

  desert dungeon I'm talking about like [TS]

  stonewalled dunno you're not like that [TS]

  like 12 year old girl in a reader's [TS]

  digest article not know about that kind [TS]

  of thing not back with a pipe marina [TS]

  heroin know that is harrowing I don't [TS]

  think about that you make a sexy [TS]

  attention haha there be a second [TS]

  component today let there be other would [TS]

  be you know there be a derby safes down [TS]

  there and stuff you know it be full US [TS]

  agency say it would be safe it would [TS]

  probably be comfortable [TS]

  well no but I mean safe there were no [TS]

  I'm sorry I mean I might have a problem [TS]

  sometimes of using words but it would [TS]

  probably be it would be a a secure [TS]

  location [TS]

  that's right better put and I bet you [TS]

  could make it comfortable i would be [TS]

  very can be made a barn barn number I'd [TS]

  be so comfortable down there really i [TS]

  would everyone so I am doing is if you [TS]

  ring the doorbell it would flash a light [TS]

  downstairs and then I would then i'd go [TS]

  on the closed-circuit TV and I would [TS]

  look at you and be decided to pull the [TS]

  track towards redhead make a decision [TS]

  then but I never had any ninja I had [TS]

  never had any affection for ninja dhum [TS]

  and I don't know whether it's because I [TS]

  i was introduced to Bruce leave the same [TS]

  way that other people were like you [TS]

  certainly he was around in my childhood [TS]

  all the sort of come from fighting was [TS]

  all there [TS]

  it just never I never identified I can [TS]

  tell you why this work [TS]

  so here we're talking about the very [TS]

  early eighties ninjas were still cool [TS]

  ninjas were still a new-ish idea i think [TS]

  america got burned out on ninjas there's [TS]

  too many fucking ninjas today they're [TS]

  were they're moving they're literally [TS]

  they're ruining TV shows that are on TV [TS]

  right now there's too many inches [TS]

  you're telling me they're ninjas on TV [TS]

  right now they're ruining TV shows [TS]

  here's the thing ninja I mean there's [TS]

  people who have like I think is [TS]

  published theories about this the more [TS]

  ninjas that you add to something less [TS]

  interesting it gets you need one ninja [TS]

  that you almost never see that's cool [TS]

  it's sort of like the fifth roommate get [TS]

  off tonight I'm look at this photo right [TS]

  now is completely freaking your roommate [TS]

  is a ninja your TV shows more interested [TS]

  in this is why this is why i sought i [TS]

  would want to be a monk like monks were [TS]

  the coolest monk shout like well like [TS]

  you know like in D&D like the character [TS]

  class because among could do stuff they [TS]

  had the vibrating palm they could go [TS]

  down I think they could fall four feet [TS]

  per level remember what's what good is [TS]

  vibrating bomb right you don't get the [TS]

  vibe [TS]

  well alright easy but you can do stuff [TS]

  you can do all kinds of stuff it was it [TS]

  was sort of like what was it was like it [TS]

  was part lot of fighter maybe some [TS]

  clerical there's a lot of dexterity and [TS]

  one of the cool thing was if memory [TS]

  serves forgive me please don't hit me on [TS]

  this I'm pretty sure you could fall four [TS]

  feet per level by like bouncing off the [TS]

  wall [TS]

  nuttin monks were the coolest that [TS]

  doesn't seem that cool [TS]

  why would I want cool i want to fall [TS]

  four feet 44 level if I could cast if I [TS]

  could come [TS]

  norb mmm i think im gonna rest it's like [TS]

  here's you cannot rest until you're [TS]

  resting within its gotta got like a big [TS]

  trouble in little china style electric [TS]

  or hovering above his hand and the other [TS]

  guy's palm is vibrating all right and [TS]

  he's falling it doesn't have the same [TS]

  visual appeal [TS]

  I I admit but it just seems like you [TS]

  guys on the campaign was always having [TS]

  to take a nap [TS]

  especially the lower level there's a lot [TS]

  of napping for the magic people but i'm [TS]

  not opposed to have not posted napping [TS]

  as long as there's somebody watching [TS]

  over so you're you're walking i would [TS]

  also like at some point to get back to [TS]

  secret spaces because as recently as [TS]

  last night I had a dream about a secret [TS]

  space i dream about them constantly I [TS]

  think about secret spaces a lot but you [TS]

  were walking down the path the bike path [TS]

  in your in your three quarter size of [TS]

  rolls-royce little eventually you were [TS]

  thinking about conjuring things I was [TS]

  as Ben you know that this is the thing [TS]

  about junior high [TS]

  you're not thinking at all the way [TS]

  through but I was pretty sure that was [TS]

  the way to be successful with girls [TS]

  if i could i mean think about it I i [TS]

  like you i still continue not thinking [TS]

  all the way through [TS]

  you don't have to sell me on this maybe [TS]

  i'm standing on all school dance [TS]

  yeah on come one guy does the fucking [TS]

  car trick the cars just keep coming out [TS]

  of his sleeves that's pretty cool where [TS]

  these cars coming back and he's gonna [TS]

  card rid of the cards and that's exactly [TS]

  what i mean i'm leaning against the wall [TS]

  and one cardini here comes here comes [TS]

  the devos working in a coal mine and I [TS]

  like Johnson but John make that over the [TS]

  cool wall go out on the dance floor [TS]

  am I going down and I'm my god i wish i [TS]

  could go dance with the girls more heart [TS]

  if I was over there just like oh by the [TS]

  way [TS]

  wow wow like who would be dancing with [TS]

  these guys [TS]

  nobody better on your own private divo [TS]

  ii like people like people be taking [TS]

  know and then we're all these cards [TS]

  coming from and pretty soon I'd be like [TS]

  the king of God be between the scene [TS]

  fans and fans just coming obviously he [TS]

  can't get rid of them the one part i [TS]

  check it out his name's cardini I'd yeah [TS]

  people are gonna know what we're talking [TS]

  about because they don't hear our [TS]

  private conversations are talking about [TS]

  the the great the Great card artist [TS]

  cardini I go to throw my cigarette away [TS]

  there's a cigarette in my mouth is a [TS]

  cigarette again and then what these cars [TS]

  keeps a perfect fan of cards is produced [TS]

  he can't get rid of the cards they just [TS]

  keep coming out rozum away and then [TS]

  they're back again you know he was [TS]

  married to that lady [TS]

  yes I didn't know that yeah and she wore [TS]

  a bellhop outfit she tempted like it if [TS]

  i can find that I didn't see that when i [TS]

  was 12 i can find one that will wear [TS]

  bellhop out but I be married service who [TS]

  would stand there with the with the [TS]

  wastebasket why through cards into it i [TS]

  get rid of these cars are never certain [TS]

  images there is a mile [TS]

  she just has a like a chest higher smile [TS]

  and then [TS]

  just picking up to 10 with the cool [TS]

  parties should never get sick of it [TS]

  she's still think you're so interesting [TS]

  because of your card sleeves [TS]

  yep what whop omn orb close this is also [TS]

  a particular story this is another boy [TS]

  pattern is that like I'm pretty sure [TS]

  there's this one thing that if I got [TS]

  really good at this [TS]

  everything would fall in place maybe [TS]

  something that's an engine for some [TS]

  people that's an orb what is why there [TS]

  are guitar player yeah snatching the [TS]

  coins mention the coins off your elbow [TS]

  right there's so many things out there [TS]

  we are like if I could just master this [TS]

  one thing i do this in mind Frank was [TS]

  walking around this tennis racket [TS]

  I get out there I produce some cards out [TS]

  of my sleeve and get more tail than [TS]

  Sinatra did you did you ever do any [TS]

  cigarette tricks my cigarette tricks [TS]

  were very modest i would do match tricks [TS]

  I could do some match tricks I could do [TS]

  some very minor like first-level zippo [TS]

  tricks have almost first-level zippo [TS]

  tricks are good just just the whole like [TS]

  this thing look like your fingers and [TS]

  you open it with the thing you know oh [TS]

  yeah this snap listen two fingers on [TS]

  making I'm making sort of like a bowling [TS]

  ball gesture with my finger your thumbs [TS]

  on the bottom zippo and you you make it [TS]

  pop it and make that noise you kind of [TS]

  smell good and they smell good [TS]

  well you know I curators before a long [TS]

  time travel collection that's one of the [TS]

  few collections I've ever had [TS]

  oh you have like Vietnam suppose no i [TS]

  didn't have like death suppose or [TS]

  anything i have a Kiwanis mo had a [TS]

  Chesterfield cigarettes ippo water's [TS]

  ripple i told you that i want a story [TS]

  yeah you do but it's I'm gonna hear when [TS]

  you're ready to become a man you let me [TS]

  know is what the guy said to me when he [TS]

  saw Michael wanna zippo while when [TS]

  you're ready to become a male come well [TS]

  with you know I've discovered over the [TS]

  course of this program that we have a [TS]

  lot of listeners who are actually [TS]

  Mason's kindly allowed to tell us that [TS]

  John I think they are because they as [TS]

  they have reminded me many many times [TS]

  there is not admitting the Masonic a [TS]

  brotherhood is not actually a secret [TS]

  organization they are they are more than [TS]

  happy to explain almost everything about [TS]

  Mason durham Wow with the addenda that [TS]

  i'm not actually use their last name [TS]

  when referring to them it's like naaa [TS]

  oh well it's just like they don't want [TS]

  to hear from somebody else in their [TS]

  Lodge [TS]

  Oh [TS]

  ok it's been a little bit like when [TS]

  you're reporting you got on record you [TS]

  got off the record you got background [TS]

  and you got deep background on the [TS]

  record is you can say that John Roderick [TS]

  said this [TS]

  yeah like off the record is you can say [TS]

  somebody who is highly or like you can [TS]

  use this information but you can't say [TS]

  who did it [TS]

  background I think you can only say [TS]

  stuff like somebody highly placed in the [TS]

  broader group said this deep background [TS]

  is you can only use this information to [TS]

  find other information i'm very [TS]

  interested in deep background [TS]

  yeah deep background is good I don't [TS]

  happen as far as the Masons that I know [TS]

  which is not not a small handful of [TS]

  Mason's distributed across the country [TS]

  in the world who contact me every time [TS]

  we talk about a syndrome boy and say as [TS]

  I've said before we are not a secret [TS]

  organization I'd be happy to walk you [TS]

  through the steps let me explain again [TS]

  things that you can google about our [TS]

  fraternal organization that those many [TS]

  helps the service it they always point [TS]

  to the service organization part and the [TS]

  fact that they wear a elaborate costumes [TS]

  is just part of the fun [TS]

  schreiner is never taller than when he [TS]

  Stoops to help a crippled child [TS]

  wow I don't know or when he pleased to [TS]

  have that printed on small car [TS]

  ok ok believe me i would see those [TS]

  nobody i would see those in the I would [TS]

  look pretty smart driving around one of [TS]

  those i wonder if any of our listeners [TS]

  Shriners these even still exists right [TS]

  this is the thing I'm sure it exists but [TS]

  like I said I time so I still think of [TS]

  that as something my grandfather is he [TS]

  was a freemason [TS]

  yeah and he was a Shriner he was in [TS]

  schools and scottish rite he's scottish [TS]

  rite and he was a Shriner and he was [TS]

  pretty into it [TS]

  oh yeah there's one about as he had the [TS]

  bolo tie he had it going on [TS]

  you didn't have the small car though not [TS]

  that I ever saw he passed when I was [TS]

  fairly young I there might have been a [TS]

  car that was in the estate I just never [TS]

  saw it I thought I think when you pass [TS]

  as a Shriner I think the car is it sent [TS]

  to the next young guy who killed your [TS]

  time I think buried in the car [TS]

  actually I comically my grandfather's [TS]

  funeral was grotesque because first of [TS]

  all they did a pretty crap job on his [TS]

  makeup so so he looked like he'd [TS]

  had some kind of like like bad plastic [TS]

  surgery and then he had the scottish [TS]

  rite funeral so they put all this stuff [TS]

  in the coffin we were there we got to [TS]

  see the stuff they put in the coffin [TS]

  there's a whole thing that give you an [TS]

  apron and gave me a magic wand maybe [TS]

  some exploding cigarettes i'm not sure [TS]

  but there's a whole bunch of stuff they [TS]

  put in the casket with you to go to your [TS]

  reward [TS]

  tell me more about that yeah that's all [TS]

  I don't remember super was pretty sad [TS]

  when he died [TS]

  what was the what was the number one [TS]

  thing you saw in his casket that may do [TS]

  ok so far it's crazy i was 12 but also i [TS]

  don't think we were actively encouraged [TS]

  to be super involved in that part of it [TS]

  it was like they got the last bite at [TS]

  the Apple before they close the lid and [TS]

  so I don't know what went in there there [TS]

  there could i I don't think there's a [TS]

  whole car but they you know it's like [TS]

  they were pending might imagine locks [TS]

  they were pounding their seal wings into [TS]

  his coffin [TS]

  mmm yeah so he was pretty into that [TS]

  yeah I i assume that it's still around i [TS]

  guess you're gonna find out people you [TS]

  can write a letter to John if you would [TS]

  like to talk about friends and no no I [TS]

  know I know plenty about Freemasonry and [TS]

  I have a good sense of the members of [TS]

  our community Mason is blind extend our [TS]

  extended family includes many Mason's [TS]

  I've been school some momentum as the [TS]

  razor Mason's but the oh and we made it [TS]

  we made a terrible mistake about about [TS]

  the knights of columbus and that I was [TS]

  corrected on that very intelligently I [TS]

  didn't but well no you didn't but I did [TS]

  there there there there a Catholic group [TS]

  there's nothing lead over to you and [TS]

  here's the problem you and I sometimes [TS]

  understanding very understand something [TS]

  very well in life and in our head and [TS]

  then somehow we each manage to say the [TS]

  exact opposite of what the true thing is [TS]

  that we improving though we know better [TS]

  because we have a kind of intellectual [TS]

  dyslexia [TS]

  yes and yes and or and yes I know but [TS]

  but so far i have never been Shriners [TS]

  planed and I wasn't bad so I don't want [TS]

  to hear about masonry again because I'm [TS]

  very up on it but i do want to hear [TS]

  about Shriners Frank yes is my guess is [TS]

  i think it is like all these groups it [TS]

  is is presented as a public service [TS]

  organization which is smart [TS]

  I think I think you have to be [TS]

  introduced to the group like sponsored [TS]

  if you like again like AAA yeah and then [TS]

  then you probably do a lot of scut work [TS]

  for a while [TS]

  you gotta like I don't know a couple [TS]

  cigars wash cars i bet there stuff where [TS]

  there's a hazing period maybe I know [TS]

  there's a lot of spanking and they act [TS]

  like the blindfold jacqueline three off [TS]

  a cliff that's the Masons right [TS]

  my mom is banking my mom well here's [TS]

  what my mom said my mom so here my mom [TS]

  loves all people to the same degree [TS]

  which is to say not very much [TS]

  yeah but she both my mom and my dad I've [TS]

  said this before [TS]

  neither one of them they were they were [TS]

  the two least racist people I've ever [TS]

  met in my life they have no they had no [TS]

  a they saw no color at a time when that [TS]

  was very unusual but my mom was racist [TS]

  against two groups of people hillbillies [TS]

  we've talked about this a lot she's [TS]

  still races to conceal Billy's liquid [TS]

  supposed to eat it because well that's [TS]

  how she described that's where she's [TS]

  from yeah she's from she's like you [TS]

  think you and you don't know from rural [TS]

  ohio and 1604 see you don't know for [TS]

  ohio and if you cross the if you cross [TS]

  the border of of one County and go into [TS]

  the other County you're now in hillbilly [TS]

  country and she hates them [TS]

  she hates them shapes them so [TS]

  passionately she says things all the [TS]

  time like we never should've bought the [TS]

  Civil War we should let the South secede [TS]

  and they would be a third world country [TS]

  we would destroy them in war and I'm [TS]

  like okay mom [TS]

  it's a term that she still uses [TS]

  disparagingly about look at those [TS]

  hillbilly's over there [TS]

  I know she won't do that but like Trump [TS]

  culture of she's just like we should let [TS]

  them succeed and then we would destroy [TS]

  them in war not like later we should let [TS]

  them build their own economy we should [TS]

  have let them keep their evil practice [TS]

  it's good it's like Muhammad Ali in the [TS]

  rope-a-dope be like let them wear [TS]

  themselves out and then BOOM [TS]

  well yeah she was like that whole that [TS]

  whole week we fought the war the wrong [TS]

  time I guess it's a philosophy like the [TS]

  whole states rights garbage and keep the [TS]

  Union together we should have ignored [TS]

  that whole thing and fought the actual [TS]

  war about slavery [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  later and then defeated the south and [TS]

  salted the earth [TS]

  I'm like hey hey hey hey Sherman's march [TS]

  like cool your jets it like this is not [TS]

  a thing that we still talk about like oh [TS]

  it's a thing I still talk about so she [TS]

  doesn't so she's raced against him [TS]

  because she's like the opposite of a way [TS]

  of Faulkner character sheets so she's [TS]

  forgotten but she's not forgotten [TS]

  something very different [TS]

  no she's so north and she says things [TS]

  all the time like this is this is the [TS]

  crazy thing like she sometimes talks [TS]

  about Bonaparte like the Frenchman yeah [TS]

  Napoleon we all call them we all called [TS]

  him Napoleon but she still talks about [TS]

  Bonaparte in a way that has been [TS]

  transmitted through the generations of [TS]

  her family from a time when they over [TS]

  when he was a living person and they had [TS]

  a nickname for him and he represented a [TS]

  certain idea of like internationalism [TS]

  aunty aunty British Empire ism like [TS]

  she'll chill refer to Bonaparte wow i'm [TS]

  like punk apart the way like people in [TS]

  you know the early 20th century would [TS]

  refer to Germans the Huns well yeah or [TS]

  like it had this implication of not just [TS]

  identifying your ethnic or geographic [TS]

  background but something about your [TS]

  character [TS]

  it's absolutely about his character and [TS]

  she she refers to him familiar [TS]

  familiarly as though we would say like [TS]

  Oh Bush you know or bush to or whatever [TS]

  she's like well Bonaparte would have [TS]

  blah blah blah [TS]

  Wow Bonaparte on apart but a so she has [TS]

  several of those things and some of them [TS]

  seem like they have been translated [TS]

  through the quicker side of her family [TS]

  from like Calvinist x small small [TS]

  prejudices against a against like people [TS]

  of different sexes like not against [TS]

  people of different nationalities but [TS]

  you know it's like there's a doctrinaire [TS]

  like this day I know you're talking [TS]

  about like the in it's almost like the [TS]

  way that people talk about nothing all [TS]

  garrison keillor here but like you know [TS]

  Lutheran's vs Presbyterians vs however [TS]

  like you'd like [TS]

  most people today who are let's say a [TS]

  religious or non-religious ago that is [TS]

  so weird that sounds like the butter [TS]

  battle book like what we talked about [TS]

  these are non-existent distinctions [TS]

  they're all just Jesus people like oh no [TS]

  my mom has very very strong or idea the [TS]

  Eucharist is flatly wrong [TS]

  yeah every single different Protestant [TS]

  denomination my mom could make very [TS]

  sweeping generalizations about their can [TS]

  we would like that about the Baptist a [TS]

  little bit [TS]

  oh sure everybody was the Battle didn't [TS]

  have to seem pretty extreme actually [TS]

  turns out my friend John went back to [TS]

  school for a while there was no dancing [TS]

  there's no music and it wasn't like we [TS]

  did a lot of dancing at the christian [TS]

  church but the Baptist seeing the little [TS]

  bit and also the Baptist were famous no [TS]

  offense to the Baptist's out there but [TS]

  the passes are kind of famously [TS]

  evangelical at a time before that became [TS]

  a thing like it like in the eighties you [TS]

  got used to everybody being like [TS]

  evangelical in your face but the Baptist [TS]

  if you'd like to show you come to my [TS]

  church you know you go to window [TS]

  Christian Church you're going to go to [TS]

  VBS you're gonna make some shit out of [TS]

  popsicle sticks you're gonna sing an [TS]

  awesome song in a major key you go and [TS]

  Barry's gonna be like hey come back [TS]

  anytime you go to the Baptist Church and [TS]

  like you know you know you're Catholic [TS]

  I'm going to hell right like you you [TS]

  don't you understand like you [TS]

  nine-year-old that you're gonna have [TS]

  some problems in the afterlife [TS]

  The Liberator the big Hollywood fat cats [TS]

  these Vatican fat cats are not telling [TS]

  you about [TS]

  it's that was the Moral Majority the [TS]

  rise of the moral authority believe [TS]

  they're well i mean i remember that is [TS]

  being early eighties because they [TS]

  definitely was making a nineteen eighty [TS]

  i think is around the time that that [TS]

  really kicked in yeah and before that [TS]

  yes mom like mom would say things about [TS]

  Baptist that made it sound like they [TS]

  were eating dirt like the old Hill [TS]

  people [TS]

  yeah they lived on Raw crawdad that's [TS]

  when there was no crime at it states and [TS]

  and and they would fight with banjos or [TS]

  whatever whatever but but then all of a [TS]

  sudden factors were everywhere and this [TS]

  could be harder easy use this then I [TS]

  don't think miss net now I think I can't [TS]

  mean an indie rocker without finding out [TS]

  their southern baptist right they are [TS]

  like a very large part portion of [TS]

  American and you know they started off [TS]

  for 20 years like hothouse flowers and [TS]

  then we started releasing them i think [TS]

  in the mid-2000s yeah there was that [TS]

  moment when a Christian rock [TS]

  two different directions on one [TS]

  direction it was the direction of like [TS]

  Guy Fieri rock where people had were [TS]

  wearing bowling shirts with flames on [TS]

  them and they were like Jesus my arm and [TS]

  then the other Christian rock which is [TS]

  like man bun rock where everybody had a [TS]

  tattoos of doves on their chests and [TS]

  we're playing the glockenspiel very [TS]

  aggressively pursue and it's like whoa [TS]

  that's where we're finding Jesus that [TS]

  way to there's a lot of different [TS]

  Jesus's and I don't know which one I [TS]

  don't know which kind of rock to follow [TS]

  uh-huh up but you'll tell it like a [TS]

  footprint on the radio [TS]

  my wife better than me my wife can clock [TS]

  it will be some kind of song that comes [TS]

  on that sounds pretty indie rock and [TS]

  should be returned office Christian rock [TS]

  was like yeah come on this is just a [TS]

  gentle indie-rock I feel like there's a [TS]

  setting on the compressors at the [TS]

  mastering studio who which is like let's [TS]

  just set those compressors to Christian [TS]

  it's a little too jolly oh your time [TS]

  major key [TS]

  yeah right he made a week at all but [TS]

  there's something you know um they sound [TS]

  like they're smiling when they're [TS]

  singing which is not a bad thing but if [TS]

  you can really tell that it sounds like [TS]

  someone smiling it seems manic well any [TS]

  better smiles when these things but it's [TS]

  a grimace smile it's like wow that's [TS]

  what I want breakfast right but uh but [TS]

  yeah you're right there smiling because [TS]

  if you drown it lets the devil and but i [TS]

  would like shit [TS]

  another that over the last 10 years i [TS]

  have realized that my mom still has very [TS]

  very strong opinions about the war of [TS]

  the roses my goodness really she takes a [TS]

  side in the war of the roses and Kenya [TS]

  and has and there are people within the [TS]

  British royal family today that my mom [TS]

  cannot abide for reasons that have to do [TS]

  with the war of the roses [TS]

  I'm just like this is not this is not a [TS]

  regular thing so just just coming up for [TS]

  me and the audience here your mom grew [TS]

  up on a farm she did and I mean ink with [TS]

  very very modest means right i mean it's [TS]

  pretty her grandfather was a postman and [TS]

  being a postman during the Depression [TS]

  was actually a pretty good job because [TS]

  it was a regular job you're gonna lose [TS]

  it he always was also a farmer but like [TS]

  the postman thing but she wasn't going [TS]

  to kumon to learn about the war of the [TS]

  roses [TS]

  no this is something that was this was [TS]

  part of the fan i'm guessing here this [TS]

  is part of the families what oral [TS]

  history like what we think what we [TS]

  believe in like we're cooking Brooke [TS]

  people not Pepsi people this this came [TS]

  up like around the house like more than [TS]

  once a month [TS]

  well her great-grandfather course fought [TS]

  in the Civil War for ohio and at that if [TS]

  you look at a map of the south and the [TS]

  map of America at the time the South [TS]

  comes all the way up so on the east [TS]

  coast there like all the way from Maine [TS]

  all the way down to maryland you know [TS]

  the north is pretty long from there [TS]

  versus the South but at all at the point [TS]

  where Ohio touches the lake the North [TS]

  was exactly one statewide which is ohio [TS]

  and soho the Civil War had a lot of the [TS]

  Civil War had a different feeling i [TS]

  think from the vantage point of Ohio [TS]

  because the South was much wider than [TS]

  the north at that point and if you look [TS]

  even within the state of Ohio and the [TS]

  patterns of migration of people to the [TS]

  west southern Ohio is still it was [TS]

  southern how was populated with [TS]

  scots-irish and so who are the people [TS]

  that my mom is referring to when she [TS]

  says her business that's that's totally [TS]

  my family that's yeah I'm from [TS]

  Cincinnati most my family from Kentucky [TS]

  and there are like all uniformly english [TS]

  and irish yeah and then in the middle of [TS]

  Ohio there are people that you know [TS]

  there are sort of what you would call [TS]

  northerners from a Puritan kind of [TS]

  mercantile I have to amend that because [TS]

  I almost made a giant error also let the [TS]

  Germans I mean it's in all right we're [TS]

  not there's a lot of amino in [TS]

  Pennsylvania and throughout Ohio but [TS]

  anyway sorry continue [TS]

  actually I would feel bad if I didn't [TS]

  acknowledge my German here you have to [TS]

  acknowledge the Germans made me look at [TS]

  my last Merlin Mann [TS]

  and it's not oh man but then right [TS]

  across the top of Ohio there's this tiny [TS]

  thin bandits got only be a hundred and [TS]

  twenty miles wide that is a Quakers and [TS]

  like Quakers and pen and pencil in your [TS]

  doctor you know German calvinists and [TS]

  Pennsylvania Dutch we have learned is a [TS]

  misnomer right there actually works [TS]

  German th and really enjoyed exactly so [TS]

  so there's this tiny little band of what [TS]

  they I think in ohio regarded as the [TS]

  last vestige of set of civilization in [TS]

  the entire like middle portion of of [TS]

  North America and they really stood they [TS]

  felt like a bowl work and they and some [TS]

  of that persisted at least into the [TS]

  fifties i'm not sure how people in like [TS]

  toledo and then work feel now I i [TS]

  imagine that it's all just denny's and [TS]

  Sherry's they're like it is everyone [TS]

  else now but then it was yeah it's [TS]

  pretty strong feelings at but but what's [TS]

  crazy about it and I think it's the same [TS]

  in my father's family their connection [TS]

  to the past is still so strong even as [TS]

  they even as they have lost exactly what [TS]

  their problem was exactly what there's [TS]

  what was going on right yeah but like my [TS]

  mom if you start talking about the [TS]

  Lancaster's and a you know and like the [TS]

  regular in the later as is yeah she's [TS]

  gonna she's going to like this whole [TS]

  business with Richard the third [TS]

  she's got real strong feelings about it [TS]

  see the hunchback in the parking lot in [TS]

  the parking lot that's a terrific Morsi [TS]

  song yeah that's a ROG back in the part [TS]

  well well launched by the bar law did [TS]

  you read that story recently about what [TS]

  Morrissey appeared on the Johnny Carson [TS]

  show and the and the other guest on the [TS]

  program was the Morsi finally appeared [TS]

  on the Carson show in like nineteen [TS]

  ninety-one right after Carson had [TS]

  announced his retirement before he was [TS]

  gone [TS]

  Wow and the other guest on the program [TS]

  that day Bill Cosby oh my god and so [TS]

  should be in ESPN 30 for 30 on that [TS]

  that's me [TS]

  using it's an incredible moment in top [TS]

  headline 25 years ago Morsi ruined Bill [TS]

  Cosby's appearance on the tonight show [TS]

  yeah well not only rude but like [TS]

  actually rule like Johnny Carson said on [TS]

  Air several times i wish i was already [TS]

  retired [TS]

  Wow because there was all this pent-up [TS]

  Morrissey energy the smiths had never [TS]

  appeared the smiths never had a hit [TS]

  really like so within the popular [TS]

  culture there was very little actual [TS]

  awareness about the smiths and who the [TS]

  hell is Morrissey and Morrissey had gone [TS]

  on record several times saying likewise [TS]

  belinda carlisle on the Carson show and [TS]

  I'm not in his in his wonderful style is [TS]

  he is humble and an admirable style [TS]

  thank you but he arrived on the scene [TS]

  and like everyone in the audience was a [TS]

  morrissey superfamily be completely [TS]

  disrupted the show ruined it in every [TS]

  way screaming for Morrissey throughout [TS]

  and you can see Bill Cosby and Carson [TS]

  these two dinosaurs at the you know from [TS]

  the end of the from the the long-ago [TS]

  times trying to grasp you know they make [TS]

  comments about people with blue hair and [TS]

  it really really like a transitional [TS]

  moment and I thought that you would I [TS]

  thought that'd be a thing that you would [TS]

  love also i mean i think about this from [TS]

  my own point of view today there's a few [TS]

  things that are more insufferable than [TS]

  allowed audience screaming [TS]

  enthusiastically for something you've [TS]

  never heard of its kind of maddening [TS]

  I'm trying not to be that guy because [TS]

  I've been that guy and I've been on the [TS]

  other end of that I've been on the other [TS]

  end of that but I mean like there's [TS]

  something like on a show like that much [TS]

  especially with let's be honest with a [TS]

  guy coming out [TS]

  I mean that's that was probably that was [TS]

  probably not the best place for him to [TS]

  be but it but it was a triumph for him [TS]

  right in the it in that he was able to [TS]

  Akita invite arrived he had he was [TS]

  finally on the Carson show and and i [TS]

  think that there was a really good quote [TS]

  from Morrissey when he was like I am [TS]

  tired of being this successful with no [TS]

  recognition to be set weary i'm weary [TS]

  I'm I'm so we [TS]

  the position where success at this level [TS]

  the level so weary that doesn't mention [TS]

  i'm weary haha you're Morrissey is [TS]

  amazing i picked this the and I'm [TS]

  sticking to it all day i cannot imitate [TS]

  morrissey four lots and lots of reasons [TS]

  which you seen the footage of when they [TS]

  might be giants from there the right [TS]

  it's incredible it's we talked about [TS]

  this i guess but like I can't speak for [TS]

  the johns but they seem so like [TS]

  legitimately joyful to be playing with [TS]

  Doc Severinsen yeah and they've got the [TS]

  whole band crankin and you know flans [TS]

  always had that on stage a that flames [TS]

  went on underwent a transformation in a [TS]

  way that like lanell had a certain [TS]

  onstage quality that he retains to this [TS]

  day he'll easily was like the talented [TS]

  dork at the talent contest but like he'd [TS]

  never really seemed like he was that [TS]

  happy to be up there but he was kind of [TS]

  smirk smiling adorable and looking at [TS]

  the camera to a certain degree like the [TS]

  immigration he was officially recognized [TS]

  he was sort of the frontman of that era [TS]

  and he was a he was he was present in [TS]

  what was what he was experiencing and [TS]

  and still is in the same way but flans [TS]

  early on never looked at the camera like [TS]

  if you look at that Carson thing he is [TS]

  not looking at the camera at all and [TS]

  he's doing his he's doing his flans [TS]

  thing and kind of not in the background [TS]

  exactly but like he's herky-jerky and [TS]

  he's that was part of it the bit that [TS]

  like if you don't like a like a there's [TS]

  somebody like kind of bits visually for [TS]

  them that were part of their thing like [TS]

  the big head guy and all that but also [TS]

  in all their videos there's a lot of [TS]

  deliberately like meta herky-jerky dance [TS]

  moves that are clearly to me like meant [TS]

  to be like an art like art rock it's a [TS]

  parody of rock and roll and it's like [TS]

  that you know i love the they might be [TS]

  giants invented the term past the dude [TS]

  that we use to this day like when crowd [TS]

  surfing first became a thing I think [TS]

  when I would refer to it as past the [TS]

  dude and like I still use that term like [TS]

  they had this like not a little [TS]

  overwhelming but but [TS]

  their distance from like the mainstream [TS]

  rock stuff and insulin insulin era [TS]

  friends were do that you know you it was [TS]

  it was a tongue-in-cheek but now you can [TS]

  see the life he legitimately just [TS]

  fucking rocks out whatever that [TS]

  transition was like not all of us say [TS]

  pass the dude [TS]

  still I should make that well it's not [TS]

  the thing that it was but but if you [TS]

  took plans work out of those early they [TS]

  might be giants moments and it was just [TS]

  Linnell [TS]

  Oh singing and playing the accordion it [TS]

  we wouldn't say that this was nerdy art [TS]

  rock right it would just be it would [TS]

  there be something going on lil playing [TS]

  the keyboard especially be closer to [TS]

  like solo jonathan richman where be fun [TS]

  and enjoyable it would be hard kind of [TS]

  thing it would be pop right yeah right [TS]

  and and but something and this is the [TS]

  thing it was something happened in in [TS]

  within the they might be giants dynamic [TS]

  particularly in Flansburg a person I [TS]

  know quite well that i do not i'm not [TS]

  sure I was not following closely enough [TS]

  to watch that transition and I think it [TS]

  might have been when they added a live [TS]

  band who wear flans took over to became [TS]

  a different character on stage and then [TS]

  was very much like looking at the [TS]

  audience present in a different way ass [TS]

  arrangements i mean not now windows so [TS]

  far maybe as a conductor but like having [TS]

  he adds so much of the color to what [TS]

  makes that a memorable song no matter [TS]

  who's singing it and he gets so much of [TS]

  the palette and the texture and like [TS]

  deciding what horns go we're on the [TS]

  Carson show it feels like he is a member [TS]

  of the severance and banned in a way [TS]

  like he's interacting with the band [TS]

  which is a huge compliment [TS]

  we have I mean that's a hell of a band [TS]

  yeah well when they appeared on [TS]

  letterman for the first time and they [TS]

  had Paul shaper and you got mugged away [TS]

  on his hamon turn it down Paul but you [TS]

  know you saw the soft plans more [TS]

  comfortable or at least differently like [TS]

  interacting differently comfortable [TS]

  different comfortable is a perfect [TS]

  description of they might be giants they [TS]

  might be giants differently comfortable [TS]

  I I definitely feel like a like an heir [TS]

  to that in a way that I wouldn't have I [TS]

  wouldn't have said before and like I [TS]

  wouldn't have in 1989 thought to myself [TS]

  I'm going to be an heir to this i mean [TS]

  is that go down all the way to your like [TS]

  comedy rock sellers [TS]

  yeah but like you know it'sit's it might [TS]

  be seen as ironic but your planet rock [TS]

  and roll solo and you're getting into [TS]

  your glasses are flying off your phone [TS]

  on the stage and it's actually pretty [TS]

  fucking great [TS]

  yeah but I'm also aware that it is a [TS]

  that is a pastiche of rock i'm aware [TS]

  that i am i'm commenting on rock solo [TS]

  but i'm also really really enjoying rock [TS]

  solo and perhaps that's a product of the [TS]

  era that it too and in that sense it's [TS]

  an heir to Punk even through throughout [TS]

  they might be giants refraction who [TS]

  write like that to whatever degree that [TS]

  they might be giants think of themselves [TS]

  as part of a of the punk experience and [TS]

  then they refracted that and you know [TS]

  and that end up influencing me but you [TS]

  wouldn't listen to my music and think [TS]

  anything really [TS]

  you wouldn't think you wouldn't think [TS]

  Punk you certainly wouldn't think metal [TS]

  you wouldn't think I mean it [TS]

  the music as recorded sounds very much [TS]

  like the the the very specific early in [TS]

  the soft rock and that's not it's not in [TS]

  the songwriting especially have trouble [TS]

  putting your still have a lot of trouble [TS]

  putting stuff in a box somebody to get [TS]

  me a few days ago saying what he say so [TS]

  i think some lines if he likes you know [TS]

  the long winter stuff NEX ask me in [TS]

  particular like what i would recommend [TS]

  from today's artists that would be [TS]

  comparable and and I felt like there's [TS]

  like three different ways i wasn't sure [TS]

  how to answer not least of which I'm not [TS]

  up on music today but honestly without [TS]

  kissing your ass [TS]

  I've always had a hard time with the [TS]

  comparisons people make I don't hear [TS]

  what they're talking about [TS]

  unless you're overtly like quoting a [TS]

  judas priest or ac/dc cadence as a thing [TS]

  I don't hear the RM stuff i don't hear [TS]

  all that [TS]

  right isn't even say which I heard a lot [TS]

  at the time [TS]

  really are you really influenced by XTC [TS]

  and I was like not really and I don't [TS]

  hear the comparison maybe shapes I the [TS]

  the thing I hear a lot is and i heard it [TS]

  at the time like people would come to [TS]

  our live shows and they would they they [TS]

  didn't tweet and be because it didn't [TS]

  exist but they would email me or comment [TS]

  on message boards and say I want to see [TS]

  them live and they were like the fucking [TS]

  who I loved them but then I listen to [TS]

  the records and it's so soft i can't get [TS]

  into the sounds so soft is very [TS]

  different and I hear that still from [TS]

  people that are like I listen to the [TS]

  band and I just couldn't reconcile it [TS]

  with the person i know from the podcast [TS]

  because I like hard rock and you talk [TS]

  about hard rock and I assumed it would [TS]

  be harder rock and like yeah when we [TS]

  were in the studio we were recording [TS]

  those tunes and chris wallace was the [TS]

  producer and it was an era specific era [TS]

  that was suspicious of distortion [TS]

  suspicious of loud bass and big heavy [TS]

  bombastic stuff even coming from a [TS]

  punk-rock places like that nana and what [TS]

  your songs didn't want that I don't [TS]

  think they could have been recorded in a [TS]

  way that if there was one more guitar on [TS]

  every track that was that just was going [TS]

  through a rat pedal and playing the [TS]

  e-string only hmm not open e only but [TS]

  but following the chord progression but [TS]

  just playing on one string down down [TS]

  down down and it would just be more rock [TS]

  it would sound rock [TS]

  I sure I mean it's your music but like I [TS]

  one of the things i treasure about in [TS]

  particular uh the green 1i want a [TS]

  pinfall is the is first of all I said [TS]

  before I think it's a UH a triumph of [TS]

  sequencing in the tracks and I really i [TS]

  would not want you to feel like you had [TS]

  to change blanket hardware you had to [TS]

  change it'll be a breeze like I'm glad [TS]

  there's not a dung dung on it'll be a [TS]

  breeze because that is the pacing it's [TS]

  an album it's a fucking album and I'll I [TS]

  i liked it has its little [TS]

  ups and it's downs and then that [TS]

  triumphant like last third like when you [TS]

  come out of the second side and starts [TS]

  didn't get what I wanted and that one [TS]

  started to start start aside to its not [TS]

  do we ball with you this mornin to ya no [TS]

  idea [TS]

  stupid stupid bad see I'm not a poser I [TS]

  know your songs like you don't know what [TS]

  they're called [TS]

  yeah but decided which i always think of [TS]

  as the beginning of side to right [TS]

  I don't intend it that way but that's [TS]

  what it feels like because there's like [TS]

  the big son said let go a bit crazy [TS]

  ending you got the big like you know the [TS]

  end and then you don't mind telling you [TS]

  this who cares it's not Tom it's the tom [TS]

  petty thing right tom petty's like look [TS]

  man you gotta have the first one side [TS]

  tues got to be killer [TS]

  uh-huh and I was like yeah I mean we [TS]

  gotta we gotta decide to but stupid is a [TS]

  classic example of a song that when we [TS]

  played it live it was much harder rock [TS]

  than it was and even as we were [TS]

  recording it the drummer Michael [TS]

  Schilling said why are you not making [TS]

  this more rock was like well I got all [TS]

  these look like a chime i'm putting [TS]

  chiming guitars on also the when you [TS]

  play it live what I always remember if [TS]

  i'm remembering correctly was it was [TS]

  much more crunchy but also you would [TS]

  play up the weird rhythms of that song [TS]

  on in your guitar figures in a way that [TS]

  you didn't hear in the seemingly i wrote [TS]

  this on an acoustic guitar version on [TS]

  the record right you would play out [TS]

  these these funny little special try to [TS]

  remember but I can't stop my head but I [TS]

  would remember always thinking like why [TS]

  is he making this like more janky but it [TS]

  worked [TS]

  yeah my contacts the accents are in [TS]

  places that you wouldn't expect [TS]

  yeah but i think that somehow you sing [TS]

  so compliments how you sing so it makes [TS]

  it more more pokey in the way that you [TS]

  you kind of punctuated and do your own [TS]

  Jamal what I thought [TS]

  another great thing from having Giants a [TS]

  lot like line run over like such a great [TS]

  thing I was trying to make it pokey [TS]

  because that's what girls like oh but i [TS]

  think the example and I that I can't [TS]

  believe that we have to we have [TS]

  generated to actually a music critic [TS]

  music critic in my own music here but [TS]

  but but uh from later hater high which [TS]

  should not be named that it was named [TS]

  that by the by Josh Roosevelt the head [TS]

  of the record company [TS]

  in one of those weird last-minute things [TS]

  where the song had always been called [TS]

  Jet City we still put it on the setlists [TS]

  as jet city really and at the last [TS]

  possible minute it was it was jet city [TS]

  when i started writing it was jet city [TS]

  throughout the whole nine months before [TS]

  the record came out but rosenfeld in [TS]

  like that record label thing where the [TS]

  record label owner is like haha maybe I [TS]

  should make a contribution to this why [TS]

  don't you change the name of the song [TS]

  too problematic hater high and I was [TS]

  vulnerable enough for susceptible enough [TS]

  to that kind of contribution that was [TS]

  like oh ok and then it went [TS]

  Emmy seriously he said that as we were [TS]

  doing the artwork for the for the record [TS]

  you can do you still think of it as just [TS]

  city it's absolutely jet-setting that's [TS]

  what we write on are on our side it's a [TS]

  way better sauce the way better name for [TS]

  the song but the recording of that too [TS]

  which when we play that new girl was [TS]

  actually originally called a 14-point [TS]

  type you know it's called 40-foot [TS]

  motherfucker but uh but when we were [TS]

  recording that song I mean when we play [TS]

  when we play jet city live we play it [TS]

  like a like a rolling stone song from [TS]

  exile on main street yeah and when we [TS]

  recorded it i mean that's how I wrote it [TS]

  but then as we were recording we were [TS]

  like why don't we get a violin player in [TS]

  here and then the violin player we got [TS]

  with was a sarah from chris's weird i [TS]

  love her parts on that and she's playing [TS]

  kind of fiddle she's doing a family [TS]

  thing plus you got her don't you have [TS]

  like a lot i like crazy harmonica on [TS]

  that one [TS]

  yeah fill in all kinds of other stuff [TS]

  he'll meet hillbilly music that really [TS]

  hillbilly faiz the song and what the [TS]

  song what the way it was written and the [TS]

  way I think now probably should have [TS]

  been recorded was with some down to down [TS]

  it you know like it should have just [TS]

  been a rock and roll song but that [TS]

  wasn't our instinct at the time it was [TS]

  like let's throw the let's throw the [TS]

  whole refrigerator at this and we don't [TS]

  have it we don't have another another [TS]

  song with like a hillbilly violin so [TS]

  let's so that's one thing we haven't [TS]

  explored yet let's put it on this song [TS]

  you know like we were trying if you [TS]

  listen to our music we're just trying [TS]

  over and over to put [TS]

  every style of everything in in the [TS]

  records you have a credit for dr dre [TS]

  keyboard memory serves [TS]

  dr. dre keyboard Scott McCoy is on one [TS]

  of the songs just standing in the studio [TS]

  quietly and we have Scott McCoy on a [TS]

  track where really we just we put up the [TS]

  mics and he stood in there and stared at [TS]

  us through the window maybe just [TS]

  recorded Scott McCoy standing in a room [TS]

  and we included on the track so it was [TS]

  that implements a barrage of they might [TS]

  be giants impulse to like let's a let's [TS]

  do weird things even in the studio that [TS]

  no one will ever know about it but it [TS]

  would but it'll be fun and artistic but [TS]

  the thing was we never develop the long [TS]

  winters never developed a definable and [TS]

  unified sound and that would enable [TS]

  somebody like you now to say like oh [TS]

  right [TS]

  our city they sound like something yeah [TS]

  yep service I mean reading or or [TS]

  Interpol sounds like Joy Division who [TS]

  and I'm and i use those examples as [TS]

  ridiculous examples [TS]

  Silversun Pickups sound like billy [TS]

  corgan the smartest boy in the world but [TS]

  you know there's not you can't even say [TS]

  about the long winters like oh they're [TS]

  rock and roll because not i mean that's [TS]

  the way we that's why we are live and [TS]

  i'm a rock-and-roll person but at the [TS]

  time we just were we were going is [TS]

  completely we were exploring the art of [TS]

  recording as separate from the other [TS]

  arts I'm glad you did I wouldn't change [TS]

  a stitch of it iie a not really treasure [TS]

  those records you don't see I mean as [TS]

  much as like me what the worst you [TS]

  didn't harm is is a really really good [TS]

  record but in my head I still sometimes [TS]

  think that it's I still encourage people [TS]

  and hope you approve or don't hate me [TS]

  for this but I still encourage people to [TS]

  start with one of tend to fall I I think [TS]

  you might even be able to enjoy where [TS]

  she does harm or after that we have to [TS]

  do the show chrono no not necessarily [TS]

  I do think that the first record is you [TS]

  know I was coming out of the Western [TS]

  State hurricanes where we [TS]

  we were very rock rock band and i was i [TS]

  was making a lot of decisions there that [TS]

  were reactive or they were reactionary [TS]

  like the Hurricanes where this thing now [TS]

  i'm doing this other thing which is [TS]

  different and if you do a hurricane song [TS]

  it's gonna sound really different super [TS]

  consciously making it sound different by [TS]

  pretend to fall [TS]

  I was just writing songs and recording [TS]

  them how I wanted and then putting the [TS]

  days to bed which I talk to people all [TS]

  the time whether like that was the first [TS]

  record of yours I heard the time I like [TS]

  this so weird and that's one where I was [TS]

  like again maybe more consciously saying [TS]

  like I want to get I want to bring some [TS]

  rock and roll back into the band [TS]

  I want the tunes to be a little bit more [TS]

  rocking or you know to it to a degree [TS]

  that doesn't seem incongruous but like [TS]

  and you know and that was that was [TS]

  successful I'm not successfully [TS]

  defending the video a solid don't even [TS]

  talk about the video almost any videos [TS]

  no I wish States hurricanes on 29 live [TS]

  yeah don't up still up on the YouTube [TS]

  that's the problem with the Western [TS]

  State hurricanes is that that was you i [TS]

  was still coming out of the bun family [TS]

  players with the with the Hurricanes and [TS]

  the bun family players there was no song [TS]

  that we could not ruin with it with a [TS]

  different time change in them like a [TS]

  different i'm seeing the true beauty [TS]

  like this you don't like that say what [TS]

  if we would have someone at the company [TS]

  was hard way we make it harder to like [TS]

  that what a driver stood up in the [TS]

  middle of a song stop playing the drums [TS]

  and played the French horn for 42 [TS]

  minutes [TS]

  that sounds cool i like completely [TS]

  influenced by not even I mean not even [TS]

  they might be giants influenced by just [TS]

  like equal parts rush and circus [TS]

  contraption [TS]

  [Music] [TS]