The Incomparable

196: Golem and Jinni Detective Agency

 

  the incomparable number 196 may 2014 [TS]

  welcome back to the uncomfortable [TS]

  podcast on your host Jason L&I we often [TS]

  talk about the hugo award sci-fi novel [TS]

  nominees every year we will do that but [TS]

  we just couldn't help ourselves there [TS]

  was a largely different group of novels [TS]

  that was not only for the nebula awards [TS]

  which come from the science-fiction [TS]

  writers of america and instead of [TS]

  America there is an association are they [TS]

  are they terrible and it's America [TS]

  anti-americanism America ok well it's [TS]

  alright we also did establish last year [TS]

  that locust or locust notnot first of [TS]

  locusts are not locusts they are not [TS]

  sort of mantis related things it's [TS]

  locusts and they're not from England [TS]

  there from Oakland apparently so I still [TS]

  think I still think they're from England [TS]

  I've heard he may be English but they [TS]

  live in oakland and they are not locust [TS]

  that's the two anyway I don't even wow [TS]

  that is that is a we are off the rails [TS]

  early anyway the point is that we read a [TS]

  lot of the nebula nominees are some some [TS]

  of us read all of them i believe and and [TS]

  because there were eight nominees and [TS]

  because not all of our regular panelist [TS]

  want to read that much because they're [TS]

  illiterate people largely been more and [TS]

  we're talking about you [TS]

  I for I've enlisted some stars from [TS]

  other science-fiction related podcast to [TS]

  come join us and read some of the nebula [TS]

  nominees with his very exciting this is [TS]

  like a crossover episode like when when [TS]

  like spider-man meets the avengers it's [TS]

  that kind of thing and and Daredevils in [TS]

  there too and Scott your daredevil [TS]

  anyway some ability is here Scott and I [TS]

  read everything it's got literally read [TS]

  every book that's published hi Scott [TS]

  hello to have year good i don't there a [TS]

  lot of new people on this podcast are [TS]

  you are you feeling comfortable are you [TS]

  uncomfortable I am slightly [TS]

  uncomfortable right all right well well [TS]

  but that's normal though so [TS]

  alright so you're here at your user well [TS]

  then great [TS]

  exactly alright we have three excellent [TS]

  special guest stars a long time [TS]

  mr. sense since like episode eight at [TS]

  least Fred cash i am I've mispronounced [TS]

  your name in the past but I hope I got [TS]

  it right this time you gotta write we [TS]

  can hear you on SF signal and the three [TS]

  horsemen which is like a spin-off of the [TS]

  SF signal right that was when a the host [TS]

  of SF signal Patrick Hester was working [TS]

  like 90 hours a week we tried to do [TS]

  something to fill in and it's become [TS]

  into its own i love spin-off podcast [TS]

  I've got we've got like 10 of them now [TS]

  you know it's out of control but yeah [TS]

  it's great podcast can do that they can [TS]

  spin things are off its good i also pole [TS]

  lemurs hear you may know him from the [TS]

  excellent Hugo nominated skippy and [TS]

  fancy podcast and SF signal both hello [TS]

  hello hello my name is fully my also [TS]

  been known to pop up on other things I [TS]

  been on the three horsemen I been on SF [TS]

  or do a couple times and I get mention [TS]

  other podcasts you make it around well [TS]

  now you can add another one to your [TS]

  right to your list like that until i get [TS]

  another ticket box the list yeah that's [TS]

  right your honor lots of podcast you may [TS]

  know him from podcasting and Sean Duke [TS]

  who is a one of the prime movers behind [TS]

  the skinny and fancy podcast which got [TS]

  nominated for Hugo and are you going to [TS]

  London for worldcon that have you have [TS]

  you made it across the finish line with [TS]

  your up with your funding I i well I am [TS]

  now just trying to raise what I'm [TS]

  calling food-related fun right uh-huh so [TS]

  you'll be there but we don't know if [TS]

  you're gonna eat ya what i eat really [TS]

  depends on on how many donations i get [TS]

  before the end of the month so it could [TS]

  be that I get to eat food that will not [TS]

  kill me or it could be that i'm eating [TS]

  whatever I find burger king when the [TS]

  burger king in England is higher quality [TS]

  food and it isn't us [TS]

  yeah yeah they're made out of like I [TS]

  don't know it's weird well it's because [TS]

  the royalty the King you know they they [TS]

  respect the king and in England burger [TS]

  king here we would have to be like [TS]

  burger [TS]

  I don't know what burger President had [TS]

  it was not advocating now [TS]

  no they don't have any of the whole [TS]

  royal they will they have you know maybe [TS]

  anyway the topic is hamburgers way to [TS]

  Central Jersey ahead of royal picture so [TS]

  we should talk so there were there were [TS]

  eight novels nominated for the nebula [TS]

  award there was a winner [TS]

  I guess we should I I its public [TS]

  knowledge you and ancillary justice by [TS]

  and lucky was the winner i should also [TS]

  point out that we've talked about two of [TS]

  these novels on previous episodes of the [TS]

  incomparable we talk about ancillary [TS]

  justice and we talked about the ocean at [TS]

  the end of the lane by Neil Gaiman we [TS]

  did an episode about that the other [TS]

  nominees are well we'll just we'll take [TS]

  them i think we'll take them in turn and [TS]

  talk about what everybody thought of [TS]

  them i think that might be the way and [TS]

  we'll try to keep the spoilers light so [TS]

  that you can listen if you're curious [TS]

  and haven't read these novels because [TS]

  chances are you probably haven't read [TS]

  all eight unless you're a crazy person [TS]

  like Scott let's start by ancillary [TS]

  justice uh you know it [TS]

  ancillary has one African justice is one [TS]

  everything all the awards [TS]

  it is been up for I think it's one more [TS]

  or less and it's the and Lucky's first [TS]

  novel and it's rather remarkable first [TS]

  novel we loved it when we when we talked [TS]

  about in the previous episode Scott said [TS]

  last year he said it was the best book [TS]

  he read last year right [TS]

  it is true and this is gonna be great [TS]

  because there's a book that you said was [TS]

  the best book you've read so far this [TS]

  year and a few episodes ago and it's [TS]

  also nominated for the nebulous it's [TS]

  very exciting so I'm wondering for Fred [TS]

  Paul and Sean have you guys already [TS]

  ancillary justice and what did you think [TS]

  of it [TS]

  I'll go freshen up yeah sure and I did [TS]

  read it in in preparation for our own [TS]

  mob interview with and lucky I chart and [TS]

  I I think I can speak for trying like we [TS]

  were blown away by it we got to read [TS]

  relatively early and its cycle and get [TS]

  to be part of building its momentum [TS]

  towards its apparently print up [TS]

  acquisition of every award is being [TS]

  nominated for I i really liked i really [TS]

  like the writing i really like the idea [TS]

  she threw out I I was not thrown off by [TS]

  it and this is but for podcast have [TS]

  talked about it that this happened [TS]

  counting the three horsemen so yeah i'm [TS]

  a big fan of a like he's worked here [TS]

  what do you think's wrong yeah I would [TS]

  agree it's currently the the novel that [TS]

  is very likely to get my vote for the [TS]

  hugo since it's also [TS]

  up for that award I and I when we read [TS]

  it and we talked to and like you've [TS]

  added i mean it it was one of those [TS]

  books where we got a slew of novels that [TS]

  are very nostalgia oriented and we got [TS]

  this one that was not and it was just [TS]

  doing all these very interesting [TS]

  different things with for example I mean [TS]

  the very first chapter I'm not spoiling [TS]

  anything it's completely disrupts our [TS]

  conceptions of gender right and pronouns [TS]

  and i love that I love that moment where [TS]

  I'm like what is going on and then once [TS]

  I figure out what's going to go [TS]

  oh that's really clever it's really a [TS]

  useful way and i love the world-building [TS]

  it also does a colonialism which is like [TS]

  my academic interest so I kind of [TS]

  latched onto that like a leech it was [TS]

  good [TS]

  so yeah I mean overall i think it's it's [TS]

  a really solid novel it's not a perfect [TS]

  double but it's also a first novel and [TS]

  it's this good for first novel is really [TS]

  quite impressive [TS]

  yeah that's the thing is the first novel [TS]

  i read it and i just thought how can [TS]

  this be i mean I imagine she's written a [TS]

  lot of things that she you know she [TS]

  never got published never thought were [TS]

  good enough by but I mean good god it is [TS]

  so accomplished for first novel amazing [TS]

  yeah Fred what do you think I enjoyed it [TS]

  as well and I experience to both as an [TS]

  e-book and an audiobook and one thing [TS]

  that I pointed out earlier another [TS]

  podcast that ball was on with that the [TS]

  experience of listening to it gave me a [TS]

  different perspective of the characters [TS]

  than the experience of reading it so for [TS]

  anybody who is a member of the audible [TS]

  order another service i would recommend [TS]

  giving it a listen because the narrator [TS]

  is quite good and it was an interesting [TS]

  different experience one of the things i [TS]

  we i am going to do my footnote now [TS]

  episode 179 of the uncomfortable we [TS]

  talked about it along with the lies of [TS]

  locke lamora I Scott Lynch [TS]

  ah the the it is space opera it is it's [TS]

  got a lot of big ideas it's got some [TS]

  very interesting things about about [TS]

  colonialism I like how there's this kind [TS]

  of question when when you're given [TS]

  Layton Layton the book this decision [TS]

  between sort of a choice between two [TS]

  sides in this is Keller Empire it's not [TS]

  a good guys and the bad guys it's sort [TS]

  of like [TS]

  you know one set of guys and another set [TS]

  of really no bad guys but the other guys [TS]

  are particularly good the gender issues [TS]

  are off also very interesting as as as [TS]

  we mentioned earlier and that i will say [TS]

  it reminded me and I don't know why I [TS]

  keep saying this but it reminded me sort [TS]

  of the feeling I got when I read the [TS]

  left hand of darkness by ursula leguin [TS]

  it was it was new it it it like the the [TS]

  cold planet it starts on reminded me of [TS]

  like win and and left hand of darkness [TS]

  and the all of the kind of we're going [TS]

  to question your issues about who these [TS]

  people are and about gender & about [TS]

  their and and about identity and it [TS]

  brought that back it was that it was [TS]

  that was the book that it reminded me [TS]

  the most of the three or thurs i was [TS]

  most reminded of what were look when but [TS]

  also john varley especially these things [TS]

  like the old fiocchi hotline which you [TS]

  wrote in the late seventies uh-huh and [TS]

  then in banks any number of the culture [TS]

  books [TS]

  oh yeah yeah very much very much like [TS]

  banks yeah [TS]

  yep you like any of those authors i [TS]

  would recommend this one highly so i got [TS]

  i got to assume that even though and [TS]

  like he is a is a first-time novelist [TS]

  that you knew I gotta assume she's the [TS]

  favorite for the hugo at this point [TS]

  should night just because she's won [TS]

  everything else or or is the the [TS]

  presence of the wheel of time on the [TS]

  hugo ballad looming fit presence will [TS]

  the wheel of time knock out the street [TS]

  puppies and vice versa [TS]

  mm that's a possibility at Endor but not [TS]

  putting stuff into the packet8 this I [TS]

  don't know what to read for this hugo [TS]

  balance focus is going to win this so [TS]

  much politics and cross-purposes going [TS]

  on by you I don't know what's gonna rise [TS]

  to the top [TS]

  anything could happen it would look like [TS]

  in a normal if you're looking normal [TS]

  momentum it would look like ancillary [TS]

  justice we had to be the favorite just [TS]

  because it has won all these other major [TS]

  awards but we we who knows i think [TS]

  answer justice is is the favorite in in [TS]

  terms of what is there on the ballot but [TS]

  the voting process is going to be the [TS]

  thing that's going to determine what [TS]

  happens because it could be that the as [TS]

  fred was pointing out this sad puppy [TS]

  ballot could be the thing that like they [TS]

  just mobilize really efficiently and [TS]

  somehow [TS]

  get enough votes in or it could be the [TS]

  same thing for wheel of time if the the [TS]

  people who voted that into be on the [TS]

  ballot the first place if they get [TS]

  enough people to vote for that or it [TS]

  could be the orbit thing could knock [TS]

  some of them out [TS]

  I i suspect answer justice is still [TS]

  going to take it and I would be very [TS]

  surprised if it didn't because I don't [TS]

  think we love time is gonna eat and [TS]

  nobody's gonna read the whole downtown [TS]

  and it's not gonna happen i'm not i'm [TS]

  not gonna make it i'm sorry it's like we [TS]

  have the vote and when we have the vote [TS]

  like in two months [TS]

  yeah somebody up yeah not gonna happen [TS]

  this is no but it comes up from [TS]

  everybody here for ancillary justice I [TS]

  mean it's really good and if you like [TS]

  space opera and if you like in banks and [TS]

  if you like the left hand of darkness so [TS]

  I mean there's so many different things [TS]

  like if you like do you like books that [TS]

  are did a really good because the [TS]

  ancillary justice is really good [TS]

  absolutely alright everybody Scott [TS]

  anything to say you already endorsed [TS]

  this like 10 times on this podcast i did [TS]

  i said all I need to say about wrestler [TS]

  just it's good good book [TS]

  I let's move on to another nominee we [TS]

  are all completely beside ourselves by [TS]

  care enjoy fattler this is a book again [TS]

  I don't want to spoil too much its [TS]

  territory Fowler is a science fiction [TS]

  writer i would argue that this is not in [TS]

  any way a science-fiction book this is [TS]

  the book that maybe think let me look at [TS]

  the rules of the negative two which i [TS]

  found out that though the navel is [TS]

  awarded to the year's best science [TS]

  fiction or fantasy book they do not [TS]

  define what science fiction or fantasy [TS]

  is so when up there said their science [TS]

  in it there is science it is a book it [TS]

  is a book of fiction that feature [TS]

  science so it is science fiction and [TS]

  it's uh a woman narrates this story of [TS]

  her life and her upbringing and she's [TS]

  being raised in an environment where her [TS]

  upbringing is essentially part of a [TS]

  scientific experiment and it has an [TS]

  impact on her life and her siblings and [TS]

  her family and you know I thought this [TS]

  was beautiful i loved it i recommended [TS]

  to my wife and then she read it i [TS]

  thought you know it's sad and [TS]

  happy and funny and sad again uh but [TS]

  it's not but it's not science fiction so [TS]

  if i were a nebula voter or fitted made [TS]

  for Hugo's i don't think i would have [TS]

  ranked particularly highly even though I [TS]

  I'll i really liked it I liked it it was [TS]

  one of the it certainly in the top half [TS]

  of the of of my enjoyment of the nebula [TS]

  nominees that i read but I i am kind of [TS]

  stopped by the fact that you know [TS]

  although it's a i think a good novel and [TS]

  I liked it a lot it's also not science [TS]

  fiction [TS]

  well as it's speculative fiction doesn't [TS]

  mean you said that it has scientific [TS]

  elements so now it seems like it could [TS]

  be real but it's not right so it's hard [TS]

  to talk about this book without spoiling [TS]

  a central point of it although the cover [TS]

  art sort of spoils that but it does but [TS]

  it'sit's yeah so I mean there are there [TS]

  primate I mean they're primate [TS]

  experiments in the book and and there's [TS]

  a question is sort of like these the [TS]

  proud the primates are okay I'm gonna [TS]

  fire off a really quiet spoiler or in [TS]

  here and then you can come back in like [TS]

  two minutes and we'll we'll probably be [TS]

  done [TS]

  she's raised with a chimpanzee as her [TS]

  sister and that has a huge impact on her [TS]

  life [TS]

  the narrator's life and her brother's [TS]

  life and her parents life and you know [TS]

  and so that I think those sorts of [TS]

  experiments actually happened so it [TS]

  seems fictional but it doesn't seem [TS]

  outside the realm of something that just [TS]

  actually happened in history so I'm not [TS]

  quite sure it's anymore it's much more [TS]

  speculative than any other kind of [TS]

  fiction [TS]

  well this could be mean it sounds like a [TS]

  slightly more conventional book than [TS]

  what Roger McBride Allen did once where [TS]

  he had Neanderthals but it sounds like a [TS]

  better version then what a a certain [TS]

  michael crichton did once with congo [TS]

  that's a good example [TS]

  yeah i was thinking of that fried yeah [TS]

  those are all this book is to compare me [TS]

  this book to those books in like trying [TS]

  to make it science fiction if you read [TS]

  the book you you it is not science [TS]

  fiction in any way shape or mean I mean [TS]

  it's a really good book i liked it she [TS]

  plays she does a lot of things with [TS]

  because the the central character of the [TS]

  book has this traumatic experience that [TS]

  kind of really reverberates across her [TS]

  life and she questions her own memories [TS]

  and you don't know if you can rely on [TS]

  what she's telling you and she has this [TS]

  kind of weird relationship with her [TS]

  brother and her parents and you know she [TS]

  grew up with a chimpanzee and it's it's [TS]

  it's a wonderful book but it is not [TS]

  science fiction and it's not like you [TS]

  know it isn't like the Congo or [TS]

  reanimated in the other followers [TS]

  it's like it's like Saul stuff that [TS]

  basically has has happened in some form [TS]

  so it's remix and kind of historical [TS]

  events I don't know they did it's a good [TS]

  question what do we do we define science [TS]

  fiction regardless of whether it's [TS]

  science fiction or not those I don't [TS]

  know which of you guys read it but speak [TS]

  up and what do you think of it as a [TS]

  novel because I really did enjoy it i [TS]

  just i I just didn't it was a little [TS]

  baffled about while I was on the list [TS]

  i I didn't read it but listening to the [TS]

  discussion maybe think of your not that [TS]

  it's directly related but the the [TS]

  william gibson books that came later in [TS]

  his life the weird ones with the [TS]

  country Padraig action yeah those books [TS]

  out which in some cases are are so like [TS]

  our present that it's kind of hard to [TS]

  disentangle them as speculative so that [TS]

  indicates that that's all the last thing [TS]

  I had to say on that because this is one [TS]

  of the ones I was not able to get to [TS]

  know I think I even the gibson i love [TS]

  that I love those though that recent the [TS]

  recent trilogy from Gibson but even they [TS]

  are getting feel like he's he's pushing [TS]

  it it's like like Max Headroom it's 20 [TS]

  minutes into the future it's like [TS]

  there's just something in it that is not [TS]

  it you know that like that like in the [TS]

  first one there's the the the footage in [TS]

  there are people putting together the [TS]

  footage in Russia somewhere and all that [TS]

  it's it's almost today but it's not [TS]

  quite and this feels completely like [TS]

  yeah this all could have happened and it [TS]

  seems very mainstream novel to me but [TS]

  it's excellent [TS]

  you know many people that were raised by [TS]

  chips are not many but I i believe that [TS]

  i believe it actually have I I just all [TS]

  of our radiolab story where they were [TS]

  talking about a chimpanzee where they [TS]

  tried to race chimpanzee as human and [TS]

  that worked for a while and then things [TS]

  went horribly wrong you know [TS]

  so in the end when I heard about this [TS]

  book i read in our service like it feels [TS]

  the radiolab story and didn't feel very [TS]

  SF well to me and so I didn't go ahead [TS]

  and read it because I thought I i think [TS]

  i know this story's was thinking at the [TS]

  time and just put it off i would [TS]

  recommend it to people i think it I [TS]

  think it's a very good book but don't go [TS]

  in expecting that there's going to be [TS]

  the secret twist is that she was [TS]

  implanted with with primate DNA and is I [TS]

  mean none of that is it's just a it's [TS]

  just like a memoir of somebody who lived [TS]

  through a very strange childhood where [TS]

  her scientists parents made her [TS]

  childhood part of their experiment had a [TS]

  deep impact on her and the rest of her [TS]

  family and as that it's beautifully [TS]

  written it really is you know Scott [TS]

  would you great just really nice book he [TS]

  i was about to say that it was [TS]

  beautifully written so you you took the [TS]

  words right out of my mouth I was it is [TS]

  a fantastic book if you only are [TS]

  interested in you know sci-fi/fantasy [TS]

  you should probably skip this book but [TS]

  it is a great book i enjoyed it very [TS]

  much [TS]

  yeah I I don't inflict many of the books [TS]

  that i read on my wife and this one was [TS]

  like you should read this you should [TS]

  read this next it's it's that good and [TS]

  she did and she liked a lot so and and [TS]

  that that's yeah okay so we are all [TS]

  completely beside ourselves by karen joy [TS]

  fowler highly recommended by me and [TS]

  Scott not science fiction really but but [TS]

  she's science fiction writer the [TS]

  science-fiction writers of america know [TS]

  her and they nominated her book because [TS]

  it's good and I can't blame them for [TS]

  that like it is it's a good book a test [TS]

  sites it and I just have scientist [TS]

  fiction I let's move on to the ocean at [TS]

  the end of the lane much has been said [TS]

  about this we did episode 155 of the [TS]

  incomparable about it [TS]

  neil gaiman shockingly not nominated for [TS]

  the hugo I nominated him but I nothing i [TS]

  nominate ever gets nominated so I and I [TS]

  so you can refer to that episode and [TS]

  Scott my are Scott wasn't on that [TS]

  episode Scott did you ever read this [TS]

  book I when you were doing that episode [TS]

  I refused to read it but i have in fact [TS]

  red home [TS]

  well mostly because I I I refused to [TS]

  read it mostly because of under the [TS]

  hated things about people who annoy me [TS]

  but for the book itself was the life for [TS]

  ya I i mean i think it was beautiful [TS]

  I'm really nice enjoyable story [TS]

  what do you guys think Fred what do you [TS]

  read this one [TS]

  I in fact read twice my december january [TS]

  me at if um Stardust was his homage to [TS]

  Lord Dunsany I thought this one was more [TS]

  like a no Maj to mr james everybody's [TS]

  have read him you kind of have a pretty [TS]

  normal background with something not [TS]

  quite right going on at the edges and [TS]

  the edges get closer and closer towards [TS]

  the center we need seems to be pretty [TS]

  autobiographical except when it gets [TS]

  really strange which is interesting [TS]

  because you know what he worked into the [TS]

  story short i enjoy enjoy a short book [TS]

  rather than a big fat book every now and [TS]

  then and very economical [TS]

  I agree it's gets right to the point and [TS]

  scares the heck out of him some points [TS]

  Sean you read this one yeah this is one [TS]

  actually finished today while and I i [TS]

  would agree with Fred one of the very [TS]

  first things I noticed about this book [TS]

  is I stop them to me and said to myself [TS]

  this feels very autobiographical not [TS]

  knowing enough about gaming myself to [TS]

  actually like say that with any other [TS]

  and you know authority but it it seemed [TS]

  like it was very much dealing with his [TS]

  own childhood and then obviously as it [TS]

  goes on it becomes increasingly strange [TS]

  or you know in the sort of game in way [TS]

  that things that are kind of dark and [TS]

  mysterious and like even even the the [TS]

  little family that that's at the ocean [TS]

  at the end of the line they even though [TS]

  they're kind of I guess the good guys [TS]

  there's always this weird unsettled [TS]

  feeling about them throughout the whole [TS]

  thing and then that never really goes [TS]

  away even in the final chapter I think [TS]

  that's very much stays there and I think [TS]

  that's something that's very familiar [TS]

  for gaming fans and a lot of his work [TS]

  even start Stardust has a lot of that [TS]

  feeling I think throughout much fun [TS]

  starts happens to be my favorite game [TS]

  and novels so but i like this one quite [TS]

  a bit [TS]

  I didn't think it was his best book but [TS]

  that's because Stardust remains my [TS]

  favorite and that's first completely [TS]

  sentimental silly reasons so yeah I [TS]

  really like american gods and i don't i [TS]

  don't think i would put this over that [TS]

  but I I liked it a lot you're right it [TS]

  feels the when you started you are [TS]

  wondering to yourself if you're reading [TS]

  of a memoir and you get the feeling that [TS]

  he must have poured some of his his [TS]

  childhood into this the bit with the car [TS]

  actually happened to him and his family [TS]

  really I did I think I didn't pick up on [TS]

  that yeah i read this i read this too I [TS]

  did it did feel very much like he was [TS]

  pouring out some of his childhood into [TS]

  this novel felt like a a fairytale [TS]

  version of events of his of his [TS]

  childhood it it was it feels like the [TS]

  anti-american god save you mentioned [TS]

  about government as far as it's very [TS]

  spare it's very sure it's very compact I [TS]

  i devoutly i devoured this quickly [TS]

  during my up during my up plane rides [TS]

  this last just last weekend so it's just [TS]

  it's just flew right by in the middle [TS]

  middle play [TS]

  and the next thing i know it's god it's [TS]

  over like well is it if if III when we [TS]

  were doing i need to read it again like [TS]

  friended maybe I can soak into it more [TS]

  maybe I great almost too fast and I [TS]

  didn't quite realize just how short and [TS]

  compact it really was but it's I do [TS]

  think he's getting better as a writer I [TS]

  i I've heard that's we're still waiting [TS]

  for the perfect game and novel I don't [TS]

  think this is it either but i guess we [TS]

  guess he keeps circling or triangulating [TS]

  looking for his masterwork if American [TS]

  guys is that I don't know what it will [TS]

  be [TS]

  maybe there's some just a perfect game [TS]

  in novel for everybody and he just keeps [TS]

  hitting near the bullseye [TS]

  no I suspect that his his greatest work [TS]

  is going to be Sandman yeah [TS]

  regardless of what he had what else he's [TS]

  doing that seems to be the work that [TS]

  everybody thinks his greatest [TS]

  achievement [TS]

  although you know he he he seems to not [TS]

  be satisfied with writing the same novel [TS]

  over and over again because American [TS]

  Gods hits a spot in me that the [TS]

  graveyard book which i also really [TS]

  enjoyed it does doesn't it hits a [TS]

  different spot and this book feels very [TS]

  different to me so even though they're [TS]

  all kind of game any I do feel like he [TS]

  is really reluctant to go just [TS]

  completely back and do another book like [TS]

  that one and well you know let's let's [TS]

  do american gods again I feel like he [TS]

  doesn't wanna push himself a little bit [TS]

  and maybe that's why you know we're [TS]

  still wondering what the ultimate neil [TS]

  gaiman book is yeah [TS]

  american gods two electric boogaloo yeah [TS]

  it was like a Nancy boys is sort of [TS]

  american gods to but it's not like [TS]

  american gods really at all know very [TS]

  very different up I didn't also like [TS]

  that this book did some interesting [TS]

  things with its horror elements that it [TS]

  didn't stick with what could have been a [TS]

  simple choice which is the supernatural [TS]

  horror but it actually chose I guess [TS]

  what you'd say like a family holds [TS]

  familial Hornets exactly exactly exactly [TS]

  it does that really well I mean there's [TS]

  and i'm not going to say what the scene [TS]

  is because we all know the scene when [TS]

  boy and family and bad things and that [TS]

  particular moment and [TS]

  I wish he had dealt more with it later [TS]

  on but there's a sort of is explained in [TS]

  the final chapter why it's not but that [TS]

  moment was like I had to stop for and [TS]

  have like a break because I was like [TS]

  what is going on right now because this [TS]

  is insane and it's horrifying that's [TS]

  even more horrifying than any of the [TS]

  supernatural creatures i feel is that [TS]

  moment we talk about when we talk about [TS]

  this being autobiographical I think it's [TS]

  telling in a way that the true horror in [TS]

  this story is horror of things that [TS]

  happen in the family horror that tears [TS]

  the family apart being betrayed or or [TS]

  thinking less of members of your family [TS]

  because of things that they did that are [TS]

  unfortunate and/or terrible fear of [TS]

  members of your family i think that I [TS]

  you know again not knowing neil gaiman [TS]

  his life and not trying to psychoanalyze [TS]

  him entirely through this work although [TS]

  it's so tempting it I I feel like that's [TS]

  really interesting that this comes from [TS]

  a personal place this isn't some crazy [TS]

  supernatural world inflicting horror on [TS]

  you it's it's terrible things happening [TS]

  to two or more caused by members of your [TS]

  family really hits closer to home I [TS]

  think boy yeah you don't even need to [TS]

  say what seen it is anybody who's read [TS]

  that book knows exactly what you're [TS]

  talking about [TS]

  hey I don't know if anyone has read [TS]

  enough game to know whether this is the [TS]

  first time he's dealt with [TS]

  family-related abuse issues that's i'm [TS]

  using that term like the most Vegas [TS]

  sense i don't give anything away because [TS]

  i don't recall if he has but i haven't [TS]

  read everything by him i haven't read [TS]

  anything by him either i feel like he [TS]

  must have touched on these issues I mean [TS]

  there's some stuff in Sandman even the [TS]

  stuff of Sandman that I've read that I [TS]

  feel is sort of like that to a little [TS]

  bit but this is it just it seems so [TS]

  personal and you're set up to feel it [TS]

  being personal from those first few [TS]

  chapters that seemed autobiographical [TS]

  that I'm the whole that's part of the [TS]

  trick to it is that is that he makes the [TS]

  the whole betrayal all the terrible [TS]

  things that happened feel personal [TS]

  because it starts so personal [TS]

  yeah absolutely i totally agree yeah [TS]

  that more talk about this book the more [TS]

  like it and more unsettled i become [TS]

  because I start remembering things at [TS]

  the details [TS]

  it's really it's really unsettling book [TS]

  i really recommend that if you've never [TS]

  read a game and novel try this one it [TS]

  too creepy oh well maybe not if you get [TS]

  creeped out too easy i think it's odd [TS]

  but I think it's gentle in another way I [TS]

  mean some horrible things happen and yet [TS]

  some of it i feel i feel is is kind of [TS]

  gentleman and his game a novel schoo [TS]

  also there are cats [TS]

  yes really awesome cat is like cats [TS]

  they're they're cats get sad sad things [TS]

  about cats happy things about cats [TS]

  all good things about cats are being [TS]

  nebulous on this nebula podcast yes it's [TS]

  the nebulous awards that we will win for [TS]

  trying to spoil everything that happens [TS]

  in all these novels [TS]

  okay so everybody's going to kind of [TS]

  give a pass to the ocean at the end of [TS]

  the lane it sounds like yeah even Scott [TS]

  who didn't want to read it I didn't want [TS]

  to read but i did and it was nice [TS]

  yeah he's a good writer I mean me [TS]

  divorced from his his PR and his wife's [TS]

  PR and all of that he's a really good [TS]

  writer he really is mr. alright next [TS]

  nice guy too [TS]

  yeah I follow him on twitter and it's [TS]

  one of those things that you shouldn't [TS]

  follow writers you really like on [TS]

  Twitter or get to know them too well [TS]

  because you're worried that you [TS]

  discovered that they're horrible people [TS]

  but he does seem like an actually [TS]

  genuinely nice guy [TS]

  yeah let's move on to fire with fire by [TS]

  charles ii Gannon this is a server I'm [TS]

  trying I'm trying to keep the the more [TS]

  military-themed stories separate this is [TS]

  this is an interesting book because I [TS]

  felt like there was sort of a couple [TS]

  different books in here this is sort of [TS]

  a book that starts out being a there's [TS]

  like a guy on a it's like there's like a [TS]

  guy with four oh my god there's so much [TS]

  in here is like a guy on the moon and [TS]

  he's and then he wakes up and he's on a [TS]

  spaceship and it's like 13 years later [TS]

  he's an investigative reporter [TS]

  yeah and it could be like you could say [TS]

  this is a spy novel yeah exceptexcept [TS]

  there's a gear shift in the mail right [TS]

  because I feeling was a couple of gear [TS]

  shift the first half of the novel i feel [TS]

  like is a sort of like there's this guy [TS]

  and and some weird things happen and so [TS]

  he sorted out of time a little bit but [TS]

  he's investigating something that's [TS]

  going on and and it there's this sort of [TS]

  spy element of you know I'm done on this [TS]

  planet and what's going on and trying to [TS]

  mislead me and maybe there are aliens [TS]

  down here but we don't really know if [TS]

  they're aliens down here i'm gonna [TS]

  figure it out and it's a little Indiana [TS]

  Jones like and I thought all right I get [TS]

  what this book is gonna be and then like [TS]

  that you again and then it's what would [TS]

  it would it be like if you were [TS]

  negotiating with aliens about joining [TS]

  their star Federation just like wow [TS]

  that's just totally different book but [TS]

  the book that I expected and so you know [TS]

  it's it's a very interesting book it's [TS]

  like several books and one hehe he has [TS]

  co-written some stuff with Steve white [TS]

  setting the Starfire series which based [TS]

  on a a board game he worked for game [TS]

  designers workshop on traveler and 2300 [TS]

  ad which was a role-playing game in the [TS]

  eighties nineties and this feels very [TS]

  much like 2308 including some of the [TS]

  same stars are used in the game in this [TS]

  book was like oh yeah and you're a [TS]

  friend of mine is talking arised in this [TS]

  which was really amusing the without [TS]

  saying anything [TS]

  the the ill-fated lieutenant we've upon [TS]

  a certain ship in the asteroid belt is a [TS]

  friend of mine huh [TS]

  it's nice yeah as with so many bein cut [TS]

  books the cover is kind of embarrassing [TS]

  like this is this book it's like a guy [TS]

  in a little bubble ship firing and at [TS]

  things and that governs really i'm not [TS]

  quite sure what that cover is supposed [TS]

  to be but in all fairness it's not the [TS]

  worse it's really not in the picture I [TS]

  mean it looks he looks kind of like a [TS]

  real person he doesn't look like they [TS]

  used some sort of like weird cg clipart [TS]

  that they got her like a dollar so you [TS]

  know i'll give them props friend and not [TS]

  an o schedule a cat clad women like on [TS]

  the dominant cleanser not books all guys [TS]

  are terrible yeah it's not that not the [TS]

  best not the best cover but yeah your [TS]

  report you're right it's probably not [TS]

  the worst [TS]

  so what did what did people so like I [TS]

  said it it struck me as being a very [TS]

  different kind of [TS]

  there's a right-hand turn in the middle [TS]

  of this book was like wow okay and i [TS]

  liked both of the kind of book it was I [TS]

  like the I like the art who these aliens [TS]

  there's a mystery there there's an [TS]

  unresolved mystery which did kind of bug [TS]

  me where it's like well will you know [TS]

  you could probably figure this out [TS]

  read the next book and you'll find out [TS]

  more but then the right-hand turn to the [TS]

  other thing I was like all right now [TS]

  we're in this side of politics and [TS]

  negotiation and learning about who these [TS]

  aliens are and how they how they get [TS]

  along and and I thought that or don't [TS]

  get along as the case may be there isn't [TS]

  nice to be invited to a club and then [TS]

  discover when when you're at your first [TS]

  meeting that everybody in the club hate [TS]

  each other [TS]

  essentially the the message here because [TS]

  the aliens are not also it's not like [TS]

  they're joining hands and sing Kumbaya [TS]

  this is not that kind of there's a lot [TS]

  of politics going on [TS]

  so what everybody else does everybody [TS]

  else think Scott what do you think I i [TS]

  enjoyed it i thought it was fun i did [TS]

  have trouble with the main character and [TS]

  with the the main female characters [TS]

  relationship [TS]

  the main character is like Cain Reardon [TS]

  he's good at and fleece could everything [TS]

  that's right he could solve all our [TS]

  problems because he's he's good at [TS]

  everything [TS]

  don't don't question his methods he's [TS]

  good he's good he's not great at being a [TS]

  spy he'll learn but he's good at [TS]

  everything else that's right we could [TS]

  teach him have a spy but we can't teach [TS]

  you how to think like him so I thought [TS]

  that was a bit much and then they have [TS]

  this strong [TS]

  well what I thought might be a strong [TS]

  female character who is also a drift in [TS]

  time and she is a decorated military [TS]

  officer supposed to be his bodyguard but [TS]

  really her whole reason for being in the [TS]

  book is that so he'll fall in love with [TS]

  her and that they can then use their [TS]

  relationship as kind of a pond to make [TS]

  him continue to be a spy for the shadowy [TS]

  organization which I thought was kind of [TS]

  a missed opportunity with a female [TS]

  character in this book [TS]

  yeah there's a lot of III think [TS]

  descriptions of the descriptions of the [TS]

  women characters in the book are are [TS]

  sometimes a little unfortunate where I [TS]

  felt like it was very very kind of [TS]

  old-school like she was a ravishing [TS]

  beauty and let me describe her to you [TS]

  and then he was you know so i think [TS]

  that's fair [TS]

  I think they're in the main character [TS]

  definitely is like he's just mr.perfect [TS]

  he's great he's literally he is good at [TS]

  everything that's true what everybody [TS]

  else think who read this book [TS]

  Fred did you read this 1i i'm almost [TS]

  done with it [TS]

  alright well I mean yeah whatever [TS]

  terrible long yeah I can protect you [TS]

  guys at the end no many times in a in [TS]

  this time when he pretended yes but I [TS]

  mean I enjoyed the the hard science [TS]

  fiction but this was the hard science [TS]

  fiction entry for this year's crop and I [TS]

  think he's setting up for a long series [TS]

  and I like some of the NCS dropping so I [TS]

  can see where it's going his military [TS]

  stuff is pretty authentic arm and a [TS]

  James P Hogan vibe at a couple points [TS]

  yes that's I actually that i was going [TS]

  to say that but I wasn't sure if anybody [TS]

  else would remember him [TS]

  I grew up and he lived in my town my [TS]

  hometown actually hot [TS]

  sonora california for many before you [TS]

  got the crazy train right after you got [TS]

  three it was I think he boarded the [TS]

  crazy train while he was in Sonora but [TS]

  uh but the it had an inherent the Stars [TS]

  kind of feeling away because there's a [TS]

  there's an impossible when he goes down [TS]

  on the planet the beginning right [TS]

  there's this sort of thing that is [TS]

  they're presented that's like how is [TS]

  this is impossible how could this be and [TS]

  that that was a very much like inherit [TS]

  the Stars where it's like I'm just gonna [TS]

  I'm gonna mention something that's [TS]

  impossible and you guys are gonna have [TS]

  to start thinking with me about how I [TS]

  might resolve this [TS]

  this magic trick that I'm doing but even [TS]

  part of that I was kind of like and I [TS]

  don't really buy it but certain other [TS]

  sequence shortly before that involving [TS]

  another Android all all say was I [TS]

  actually thought was well written was [TS]

  kind of neat was like putting together [TS]

  oh wait a minute [TS]

  oh no that key oh Michael yes you know [TS]

  like yeah I just thought that was a good [TS]

  part yeah there's there's some really [TS]

  nice kind of almost first contact first [TS]

  ? contact stuff that is really creepy [TS]

  and interesting and i love i love jack [TS]

  mcdevitt is a is a i'm not sure i would [TS]

  say guilty because I is a pleasure to [TS]

  read i love those books there are a lot [TS]

  of fun and I like the word on a planet [TS]

  who knows if there are aliens here and [TS]

  maybe there's a dead long-dead [TS]

  civilization or maybe they're not [TS]

  completely dead and and the mystery and [TS]

  that kind of almost Indiana Jones kind [TS]

  of feeling of exploration that's another [TS]

  good comparison for this one who's that [TS]

  the first part of the book feels like [TS]

  that and then it then it goes in a very [TS]

  different direction who I anybody else [TS]

  read this one I just started it I didn't [TS]

  really get that far into it now i do [TS]

  want to continue reading especially [TS]

  since we've had the these mild spoilers [TS]

  i can I want to see where I want to see [TS]

  worry goes but yeah I don't have enough [TS]

  to really form o.a.r impression of it [TS]

  yet [TS]

  I'm not enough that i haven't put it [TS]

  down which is John I unfortunately have [TS]

  not read it although fred was explaining [TS]

  to me earlier that the similarities but [TS]

  she's already noted to traveler which [TS]

  was a game that i bought a whole bunch [TS]

  of books of when I was a teenager but [TS]

  never got to play so I i do now want to [TS]

  read it based on that that reference but [TS]

  it is one unfortunately I didn't get to [TS]

  I'd say it's almost like the first half [TS]

  of the book is jack mcdevitt and the [TS]

  second half is maybe david brin kind of [TS]

  uplifting a little bit different also [TS]

  not one of my favorite people in the [TS]

  world but I love those uplift books and [TS]

  it feels like that in the sense that you [TS]

  its humanity discovering that the the [TS]

  universe is a lot more complicated and [TS]

  that they made they may not be you know [TS]

  they may be it upon in someone else's [TS]

  game or they may not and they have to [TS]

  find their own way and there's a lot of [TS]

  that kind of vibe happening in the [TS]

  second half and yeah it was fun I I you [TS]

  know if I had any any complaints beyond [TS]

  the main character being perfect and [TS]

  like Scott said the the the woman [TS]

  character maybe not being having enough [TS]

  of her own motivation for what she does [TS]

  and it's the that their stuff that is [TS]

  really teed up in terms of there are [TS]

  some plot revelations about what they [TS]

  find them at planet that are like [TS]

  literally just never dealt with again [TS]

  that that it's clear it's sort of like [TS]

  we'll you know that's another book next [TS]

  book will talk about why they found that [TS]

  thing on that planet later but it was [TS]

  fun [TS]

  it's just weird because it's too it's [TS]

  like two books in one it literally as if [TS]

  you if you if you're not really enjoying [TS]

  the first half just keep reading this [TS]

  another book in there i probably will [TS]

  not be reading the second book [TS]

  yeah well it unless it gets nominated [TS]

  for something I might I might depends [TS]

  i'll see what people think of it but you [TS]

  know it was it was a it was kind of fun [TS]

  it was yeah it was definitely not one of [TS]

  those that i picked up and I and when I [TS]

  was done I I said boy can't believe that [TS]

  book 2 is now yet I i believe the ark is [TS]

  out I couldn't believe i have a copy [TS]

  right i will be reading right so fire [TS]

  with fire [TS]

  I thought was yeah I was fine that was [TS]

  fun and if any of those uh author names [TS]

  that we rattled off their structure [TS]

  right then you should give it a read [TS]

  alright let's move on did anybody but [TS]

  Scott Reed hill by nicola Griffith I did [TS]

  not I did not all right Scott is all [TS]

  like it's all on you I i bought i [TS]

  actually bought it and Scott said don't [TS]

  read it [TS]

  don't worry well I mean it's a really [TS]

  let me say this it's it's another [TS]

  beautifully written book it's incredibly [TS]

  long it is not science fiction or [TS]

  fantasy in any shape or form other than [TS]

  the fact that so it's set in a it's [TS]

  about Hildebrand who's an actual [TS]

  historical figure she was in I forget [TS]

  the timeframe medieval times i'm [TS]

  assuming don't like this 700 700 or [TS]

  something like that [TS]

  Hildegard von Bingen I believe I'm [TS]

  saying held up wait [TS]

  ok ok chart yes so she is viewed as a [TS]

  seer by some the pita the king and her [TS]

  mother setting up to to be viewed as [TS]

  this year but she openly admits that she [TS]

  has no mystical power she just observes [TS]

  things that other people are things that [TS]

  other people don't notice and then draws [TS]

  logical conclusions based on the fact [TS]

  that she's seen around her and then when [TS]

  she's proven right people think that she [TS]

  has mystical abilities but she does not [TS]

  have any missile abilities and so it's [TS]

  the story of her maybe like 10 years of [TS]

  her life [TS]

  it's beautifully written it is not [TS]

  fantasy [TS]

  it is historical fiction it's pretty [TS]

  much straight historical fiction so [TS]

  check it out if you want to read like an [TS]

  800-page book that [TS]

  its hilt was really good alright and on [TS]

  page 801 of Connie Willis's [TS]

  time-traveling people just steps through [TS]

  a door and goes hey haha except in the [TS]

  end [TS]

  hey rube science fiction done i was this [TS]

  was the other one that maybe we can look [TS]

  at the rules ridiculous to figure out [TS]

  why I mean based on if you're just [TS]

  looking at how well it was written it's [TS]

  clearly a nominee worthy but once again [TS]

  it you're putting it into a science [TS]

  fiction and fantasy award and I don't [TS]

  know how it fits in the genre but it is [TS]

  a novel and genre novel if his honor or [TS]

  author righted says it's john or even if [TS]

  it doesn't seem Joshua that seems to be [TS]

  the question of this nebula value with [TS]

  with with with this end with the Fowler [TS]

  well these these clearly the nominees [TS]

  the shortlist makers of the nebulas feel [TS]

  that if you're us if you're in the [TS]

  fraternity of being a science fiction [TS]

  writer then and you're right things that [TS]

  are good [TS]

  you're eligible and that's fine I get it [TS]

  it's just if you're looking for for [TS]

  great new science fiction novels to read [TS]

  you got to be careful because some of [TS]

  these are you know maybe it's a good [TS]

  trick like hey read something outside of [TS]

  the genre that's fine but it you know [TS]

  that this is a historical fiction novel [TS]

  by somebody who's written science [TS]

  fiction in the past you and probably [TS]

  short works was also one that people say [TS]

  why is the science fiction maybe wasn't [TS]

  the one called springs one [TS]

  yeah they add that that was even run on [TS]

  tor.com but its larger and larger right [TS]

  yeah the ending of that particular [TS]

  novella is is I think close enough to [TS]

  being weird and set that [TS]

  yeah it you get to the end you go [TS]

  there's like a weird moment where things [TS]

  sort of become like a not quite real and [TS]

  that's enough but it's very very low key [TS]

  I mean I've got bad halfway through and [TS]

  I'm like I really like this but where's [TS]

  the syfy so because it seems like a [TS]

  nostalgia peace until you get to the end [TS]

  and then it's so nostalgic piece but [TS]

  there's also this sort of weirdness [TS]

  which I'm not gonna ruin because it's [TS]

  actually a great novella [TS]

  no right ok so that's held Scott gives [TS]

  it a thumbs up for quality and points [TS]

  out that is historical fiction if you'd [TS]

  like to know about the 700 check it and [TS]

  what we've i was looking at just a if i [TS]

  was reading these books on just the [TS]

  craft of writing Hilde should have one [TS]

  not i don't i don't think it based on [TS]

  the fact that this is a science fiction [TS]

  fantasy award it should not be but time [TS]

  to take a break for our sponsor our [TS]

  sponsor this week is really exciting it [TS]

  is a new trade paperback of a comic [TS]

  called umbral is by anthony johnson and [TS]

  Christopher mitten and anthony johnson [TS]

  is an incomparable listener in addition [TS]

  to being a comic book writer and he [TS]

  writes a whole bunch of other stuff does [TS]

  video game world building [TS]

  umbro I i read the issue one when it [TS]

  first came out i just read the trade [TS]

  paperback it's the first thing these two [TS]

  guys have created together since they [TS]

  created the epic wasteland comic it is a [TS]

  high-concept story it is sort of like [TS]

  dark crystal meets saga they didn't [TS]

  really designed it that way but that's [TS]

  sort of how it turned out the art is [TS]

  really unique it looks unlike anything [TS]

  that's out there today really [TS]

  interesting art and the colors are all [TS]

  very cool it's got a really awesome [TS]

  female main character and it's good for [TS]

  I would say new and non comics readers [TS]

  and the comic curious this is a you know [TS]

  it sets you up with this sort of fantasy [TS]

  story that you're expecting and then it [TS]

  goes or at least I was expecting it goes [TS]

  in a different direction and there's [TS]

  some surprises and things that you are [TS]

  yeah if you go in expecting it to be yet [TS]

  another story that you've seen before [TS]

  you will discover very rapidly that that [TS]

  is not what you're going to get lots of [TS]

  amazing world building goes on [TS]

  anyway the trade paperback version [TS]

  collecting the first few issues has just [TS]

  committed 268 pages long so it's a [TS]

  really large chunk of story [TS]

  the same size as saga vol.1 actually and [TS]

  only 999 it even has a map in it so you [TS]

  can you know anybody who's read fantasy [TS]

  stuff you have [TS]

  map see what's happening in this and [TS]

  this mythical land where this main [TS]

  character [TS]

  yeah she discovered some pretty horrific [TS]

  creatures that are doing horrible things [TS]

  and then she has a very interesting [TS]

  adventure it's dark and weird and I [TS]

  liked it and so there is a site that you [TS]

  can go to go to the umbral dot-com th e [TS]

  UMB ral the umbral dot-com and I the [TS]

  digital version of issue one of em bro [TS]

  is free on comixology and on image [TS]

  comics his own site and then there is [TS]

  the trade paperback 999 on sale now just [TS]

  went on sale earlier this week you get [TS]

  the complete vol 168 pages it's called [TS]

  out of the shadows umbral umbr al [TS]

  anthony johnson and comfortable listener [TS]

  do my favorite check it out if you're [TS]

  not sure [TS]

  get the free issue 1 and then if you [TS]

  liked it by the trade paperback so thank [TS]

  you so much to anthony and two umbral [TS]

  for sponsoring this episode of the [TS]

  uncomfortable [TS]

  let's talk about the red colon first [TS]

  light by linda nagata which i believe is [TS]

  essentially a self-published novel the [TS]

  denominator is pretty cool and she's [TS]

  written a number of novels in the past [TS]

  but I think they're all she's republish [TS]

  the mall yourself at this point so this [TS]

  is also a military focused science [TS]

  fiction it's interesting in that it [TS]

  mixes military characters and action [TS]

  with some pretty strong ii and [TS]

  interesting political sentiment in that [TS]

  like the first thing in the first [TS]

  paragraph of the first chapter is about [TS]

  how you know listen the world is run by [TS]

  the arms dealers and you know they're [TS]

  all just making profits for the defense [TS]

  industry and we're just the the soldiers [TS]

  here just gonna get chewed up by this [TS]

  machine is doing this and that's how the [TS]

  that's how that it it starts this is [TS]

  also a book that takes a right-hand turn [TS]

  because they're we we meet a group of [TS]

  soldiers out in Africa American soldiers [TS]

  that are patrolling in Africa [TS]

  and and it's a fascinating little bit [TS]

  but we don't stay with them very long in [TS]

  the end and the book goes in a in a [TS]

  different direction from there and it [TS]

  becomes this interesting combination of [TS]

  military action and this recurring [TS]

  question for uh about if there is an [TS]

  artificial intelligence emerging [TS]

  definitely a science fiction it's a [TS]

  near-future with an artificial [TS]

  intelligence that may or may not be [TS]

  emerging in an interesting way and the [TS]

  main character is a guy who was a given [TS]

  the choice of being in the Army or going [TS]

  to jail because he was at it in a [TS]

  political protest and so he decides to [TS]

  do this and he leaves his girlfriend [TS]

  behind and decides to stay out of jail [TS]

  and become a and become a soldier and [TS]

  ends up in another in another thing that [TS]

  happens here ends up being the recipient [TS]

  of some of the earliest high technology [TS]

  for veterans to sort of like give them [TS]

  Bionic parts and and so that's a thread [TS]

  that runs through this you got the AI [TS]

  stuff you've got the first bionic [TS]

  soldier stuff you've got the questions [TS]

  about how power in this future world is [TS]

  controlled by the arms dealers and and [TS]

  the defense industry versus the [TS]

  government's and it's all just sort of [TS]

  mixed together in an interesting way and [TS]

  at some point minor spoiler at some [TS]

  point a nuclear bomb goes off very close [TS]

  to people and that's also very exciting [TS]

  so what did what did everybody think of [TS]

  that spread why did you give us a give [TS]

  us a start [TS]

  uh I enjoyed a lot of read it in about a [TS]

  day sneaking it here and there she does [TS]

  a good job depicting mean especially [TS]

  that opening sequence excellent job [TS]

  depicting the military know in a very [TS]

  bad situation i really like the mix of [TS]

  politics and the noticed there's no info [TS]

  dumps she drops a little bit of [TS]

  Technology she drops little politics you [TS]

  mix it all together nicely arm some [TS]

  interesting characters the the [TS]

  relationship between the main character [TS]

  his father and his girlfriend very [TS]

  interesting you know it's the father is [TS]

  proud of what he's doing but very upset [TS]

  that he keeps disappearing for come on [TS]

  Selma and [TS]

  you know getting body parts blown off [TS]

  and coming back broken and i think if [TS]

  you like spy novels you like this one [TS]

  you like military is if you like this [TS]

  one if you like burning gay you like [TS]

  this one arm she put together quite a [TS]

  nice entry and they what I so far to [TS]

  book series we'll see how Fargo's sean [TS]

  paul you guys read this one [TS]

  yeah well Paul and I actually read it [TS]

  for what it is another person we've [TS]

  interviewed which is kind of fun [TS]

  it's not as fresh in my memory is [TS]

  perhaps and friends are four paws uh I [TS]

  also really like this i think the larger [TS]

  because like Joe Haldeman forever worse [TS]

  one of my favorite books ever and it [TS]

  obviously this book has some does some [TS]

  things take the technology there's are [TS]

  similar and deals with some of the very [TS]

  aggressive political aspects in terms of [TS]

  the sort of military industrial complex [TS]

  stuff and that's that's something that I [TS]

  find really fascinating is it's it's [TS]

  when science fiction's working the best [TS]

  it's not just sticking with the status [TS]

  quo is questioning what whatever the [TS]

  status quo happens to be an issue i [TS]

  think you noted at the very beginning it [TS]

  pretty much like puts this like it just [TS]

  puts out all of its cards and says here [TS]

  you go hit know that you know what we're [TS]

  playing with right now I'm v defense [TS]

  industry you know and contractors have [TS]

  lots of control starts out and you're [TS]

  thinking it's sort of like a rant of a [TS]

  character and then fairly soon after [TS]

  like oh no that's the plot that's the [TS]

  that's the story [TS]

  yeah it it can be a little heavy-handed [TS]

  i think at times but it's also it i [TS]

  think it's doing something that is very [TS]

  current in the same way that Haldeman's [TS]

  book was very current for at least when [TS]

  he was writing it was in this sort of [TS]

  post Vietnam era in this way to dealing [TS]

  with a very different type of of war [TS]

  situation and different kind of [TS]

  industrial military industrial complex [TS]

  and it's obviously taking a very sort of [TS]

  extrapolated view of it and i find it i [TS]

  just find that really fascinating i like [TS]

  when science-fiction military SF in [TS]

  particular is actually trying to deal [TS]

  with real-world issues and a slightly [TS]

  future science fiction setting instead [TS]

  of just sort of taking us five billion [TS]

  years in the future and [TS]

  we're just fighting aliens with no faces [TS]

  and stuff which can be fun but maybe not [TS]

  as relevant to today so I'm that since I [TS]

  really appreciate it [TS]

  what about you Paul yeah I as Sean said [TS]

  we reread this early last year I've been [TS]

  reading into stuff for a long time and [TS]

  she had dropped out of the SF here for a [TS]

  while she did a couple friends see now [TS]

  that I was very glad when she came back [TS]

  like hope she's gonna stop always book I [TS]

  so I delved into it I was kind of [TS]

  predisposed to like it on those bases [TS]

  and so it's ok military SF ok politics [TS]

  and then AI think ok now i start to see [TS]

  where where where the wind and the guy [TS]

  that i read back in the 90 uses was [TS]

  coming into this is because as sorry as [TS]

  like this doesn't feel like it feels [TS]

  like her writing but it isn't it and [TS]

  then when when she went the strings all [TS]

  finally started mixing together ice [TS]

  serve see okay now this feels like a [TS]

  wind and they got a book and I was very [TS]

  very happy to have another Linda got a [TS]

  book that makes any sense because she is [TS]

  an underrated underrated writer and I'm [TS]

  glad to see that she's up i got their [TS]

  publishing and getting new readers she's [TS]

  been nominated for this award before is [TS]

  she not [TS]

  yeah long long time ago yeah now i had [TS]

  read anything by her so I was intrigued [TS]

  Scott what did you think of this one [TS]

  i also have never read anything by heard [TS]

  nor have I ever heard of her [TS]

  so I I that was good i'm glad i read [TS]

  this book because i liked it i have a [TS]

  don't read a lot of military science [TS]

  fiction Clyde you have a soft spot for [TS]

  military science fiction so I thought I [TS]

  enjoyed it i like the twists are like [TS]

  everyone said it's kind of a very it [TS]

  feels very contemporary she's trying to [TS]

  make a point I like novels that have a [TS]

  point of view and this certainly has a [TS]

  very strong point of view and it's not [TS]

  shy about letting you know what that [TS]

  point of view is and i thought as i was [TS]

  reading it I thought okay well i know [TS]

  what i'm getting this it starts off the [TS]

  first chapter is like pretty [TS]

  straightforward military science fiction [TS]

  was like okay this is cool [TS]

  I know what's happening and then she [TS]

  kind of swerves and the whole AI thing [TS]

  happens and nuclear bombs go haha [TS]

  all kinds of crazy stuff happens but [TS]

  even with all this crazy stuff she has [TS]

  characters that are believable and they [TS]

  have relationships and you know i was [TS]

  giving fire with fire a hard time for [TS]

  the female character I feel like this [TS]

  book has a lot of strong female [TS]

  characters in it which i think is great [TS]

  but it's not it doesn't make it it's not [TS]

  like trumpeting the fact that hey look [TS]

  there are strong feeling characters [TS]

  they're just characters in the book they [TS]

  have things to do and that's great i [TS]

  like the talk about the emergent AI [TS]

  think I really I i like the fact that so [TS]

  many depictions of AI in science fiction [TS]

  are and you know and then it became [TS]

  alive and began to talk to us and all [TS]

  that and this this seems a you know I [TS]

  don't know [TS]

  more likely a scenario to me which is [TS]

  that there is something that is emergent [TS]

  that has behavior that you know it's [TS]

  coming from somewhere and it's not [TS]

  natural but it's actually unclear how [TS]

  intelligence it even is if it thinks or [TS]

  if it's just pushing reality and and I [TS]

  in ways that its programming is pushing [TS]

  it to you know you can't get you can see [TS]

  the shape of it it's just beneath the [TS]

  surface and you don't know whether it's [TS]

  really thinking or not and at first [TS]

  people don't even understand that it's [TS]

  there and it takes a long time [TS]

  the main character that you know it's [TS]

  easier for people to think that he's got [TS]

  vision from God then it is that he's [TS]

  been you know given information or B is [TS]

  being manipulated by an artificial [TS]

  intelligence and so that's a really [TS]

  interesting twist I loved the the [TS]

  beginning in in Africa I thought that [TS]

  was a really evocative segment and I was [TS]

  sort of sad when it ended but I I see [TS]

  why you know how was the story she [TS]

  wanted to tell she took told that is [TS]

  almost like a little short story and [TS]

  then kicked us into the rest of the [TS]

  story which was which was really nice if [TS]

  I have a complaint about this it's [TS]

  probably that I felt like it went a [TS]

  little too long and after after you blow [TS]

  up a nuclear bomb high above not that [TS]

  high above many of your characters I [TS]

  feel like that [TS]

  that's probably as good as it's gonna [TS]

  get and I felt that kind of went on a [TS]

  little bit long after that there was a [TS]

  lot of of their there was some more [TS]

  action and and there's an airplane chase [TS]

  at one point and I felt like the most [TS]

  climactic things have already happened [TS]

  and that I was kind of ready for it to [TS]

  be over so i guess that would be my one [TS]

  complaint about it is there's a whole [TS]

  thing where there's somebody taken [TS]

  hostage and there's people on one [TS]

  airplane and people in different [TS]

  airplane and yeah you know at that point [TS]

  I i felt like i had my foot fill in that [TS]

  it didn't need to keep going on but but [TS]

  no it was a lot of fun that was not what [TS]

  I expected from reading the community [TS]

  from the cover and from assuming that it [TS]

  was a military and no point did any of [TS]

  the characters devolved into what they [TS]

  could I mean that you know I went to buy [TS]

  became a soldier instead of going to [TS]

  prison or the father whose protesting [TS]

  about his son's life choices or the [TS]

  girlfriend who breaks up with him [TS]

  because he's going in the military [TS]

  all of those seem like they could be [TS]

  stock characters and none of them are [TS]

  behaving in totally you know predictable [TS]

  stock ways which is nice [TS]

  it's also the first time i [TS]

  self-published novel has appeared on [TS]

  this I think yeah I think so yeah which [TS]

  is really interesting when you think [TS]

  about it because that's like we had a [TS]

  big conversation I think last year about [TS]

  I think they like you how he or somebody [TS]

  have a fit because they can get [TS]

  nominated for like the the proper awards [TS]

  because they're self-publisher some [TS]

  remember who was it probably wasn't you [TS]

  Howie but then of course now where we [TS]

  are 2014 is like well as a punishment [TS]

  got nominated so what if she may have [TS]

  made it easier to nominate she's already [TS]

  been known for ya got a number of years [TS]

  she seems to be approaching this I mean [TS]

  it's not like hi I'm Linda and I have a [TS]

  book she's got as the way she seems to [TS]

  be approaching it as i am my own [TS]

  publisher and I am publishing these [TS]

  novels and I you know I've got a [TS]

  publishing company with a name and and [TS]

  is trying to sort of self-published with [TS]

  the trappings of being in a you know in [TS]

  a publishing house even though she's not [TS]

  which has got an interesting approach [TS]

  I think number alright um let's then [TS]

  then unless there's anything else [TS]

  about that move on to a stranger in a [TS]

  laundry abay Sophia samatar this is [TS]

  gonna be interesting haha why don't I [TS]

  idea [TS]

  somebody else might want to Scott can [TS]

  you help me out here can you explain [TS]

  what this book is about uh well do you [TS]

  remember it i do remember it i remember [TS]

  parts of it it's the story of a young [TS]

  man whose father grows peppers directly [TS]

  yes he did he takes a trip he meet some [TS]

  interesting people he learns how to [TS]

  write and read [TS]

  yes he's he's instructed by a traveler [TS]

  from the far-off big-city the trend [TS]

  learns how to read and write and speak [TS]

  the language of the far-off city right [TS]

  traveled to that City he's he's haunted [TS]

  by a ghost see and then yes [TS]

  yeah apparently he is kidnapped by some [TS]

  religious people put into an asylum of [TS]

  some sort [TS]

  he is a then kind of kidnapped by [TS]

  another group of people who escaped help [TS]

  him escape from the asylum [TS]

  there's a scene where religious group [TS]

  holds a fair and everybody gets beat up [TS]

  and then he hides out all trying to come [TS]

  and then he hides out all trying to come [TS]

  here himself from was honoring yes at [TS]

  the end of he goes to the end of the [TS]

  world and hides out it [TS]

  yes and writes a book in the margins of [TS]

  another book while someone else is dying [TS]

  but they're not dying because the ghost [TS]

  helps him keep them alive and then when [TS]

  he finishes writing the book the ghost [TS]

  goes away everybody's happy and he goes [TS]

  home [TS]

  sort of yeah kind of is that there's [TS]

  that shirt yeah i really did remember [TS]

  this will pick and I thought it went on [TS]

  so long for such a short book it was a [TS]

  short i read it on the kindle it didn't [TS]

  seem sure to me at all [TS]

  it seemed very very very very long i was [TS]

  reading it and I could think this this [TS]

  is good but perplexing i don't know why [TS]

  i'm reading this I don't really care [TS]

  about anything that's happening and I [TS]

  hope it will stop it you know it it it's [TS]

  kind of shaggy dog story right there's [TS]

  lots of stories right i mean that was [TS]

  the thing that stopped be actually [TS]

  because I enjoyed a lot of it but but [TS]

  you know you get to a point where like [TS]

  okay now i'm going to tell you and [TS]

  literally the whole that we're going to [TS]

  stop the entire book now and tell like a [TS]

  whole other books worth of a story to [TS]

  get around like that let's back up until [TS]

  the ghost story or four excerpts from [TS]

  books or excerpts from problems yeah and [TS]

  that was that was what it beat me down [TS]

  after a while that as much as I [TS]

  appreciate the quality of the writing [TS]

  and I was sort of interested in what was [TS]

  happening there are so many excerpts [TS]

  from books and there's so many other [TS]

  people's stories there's so many legends [TS]

  do you know the legend of this [TS]

  well let me tell you the entire legend [TS]

  of that and that that was what stretched [TS]

  it out for me [TS]

  I you know I I yeah yeah what was I well [TS]

  what do other people who are not mean [TS]

  Scott think about this before i go on [TS]

  too long about ok it the the writing is [TS]

  almost painfully beautiful it does have [TS]

  that structure of let's drill down into [TS]

  the story come back up again drill down [TS]

  it can remind it reminded me I I think [TS]

  Fred will get the reference reminding me [TS]

  of a of a bit in in gold LS kabak where [TS]

  they were they explore stories where you [TS]

  drill down and come back up again and [TS]

  a very almost a very picky mountain sort [TS]

  of structure to the book and that didn't [TS]

  make it [TS]

  it's not a long book but it feels [TS]

  feeling very long [TS]

  spaa I tedious is not the right word [TS]

  because I wasn't bored it just it just [TS]

  it just had to take my time reading this [TS]

  understanding anything actually [TS]

  immersing myself into it and I couldn't [TS]

  read a lot of it at at once because it [TS]

  was it was it was like how it was like a [TS]

  very rich rum cake and I could only have [TS]

  a little bit at a time and then i had to [TS]

  put off because it was just too much [TS]

  digest one time as think about like all [TS]

  that was nice [TS]

  okay i can read some more now but I just [TS]

  cannot take I couldn't I couldn't cope [TS]

  this down like some of the other other [TS]

  of books and books in the this list this [TS]

  had this idea really really work at to [TS]

  actually get through i was it worth it i [TS]

  think their readers who should never go [TS]

  anywhere near this process hate hate [TS]

  hate that yeah alright so i'm not sure [TS]

  if i can recommend this or not there [TS]

  there's depth is definitely a book back [TS]

  we'll definitely be devices i think yeah [TS]

  i would i would agree that it [TS]

  this is this is going to be a book for a [TS]

  very particular kind of reader and [TS]

  somebody maybe maybe a reader who [TS]

  doesn't know what kind of book they like [TS]

  which that you might want to throw it at [TS]

  them and see what happens to their face [TS]

  think I actually really enjoyed it and [TS]

  and I actually talked to Sophia samatar [TS]

  about the book before i had read it [TS]

  earlier this year and that's partly why [TS]

  i bought the book immediately and then [TS]

  had her sign and not realizing she'd [TS]

  already signed it because I was just [TS]

  excited sochi personalize the signature [TS]

  which is kinda cool but it was a weird [TS]

  experience but I I'll i liked it and i [TS]

  think the reference i was actually gonna [TS]

  go to is it seemed very much like a [TS]

  salmon rushdie book some of its uses of [TS]

  other narratives that would and I feel [TS]

  like that may have considering her [TS]

  academic experience and her research [TS]

  into arabic literature there there is a [TS]

  connection into that tradition that [TS]

  maybe we're not getting [TS]

  and I'm I'm not getting it because I'm [TS]

  not that's not my field and i don't i [TS]

  don't study that particular literature [TS]

  but that Russia would be the person that [TS]

  i would i would make the biggest [TS]

  connection to what the way in which it [TS]

  goes in and outside of the story going [TS]

  down and then going back up in this kind [TS]

  of a hill like structure in terms of the [TS]

  narrative and I also feel like it [TS]

  I i agree that it can be super [TS]

  frustrating for a reader who maybe is [TS]

  you know more attuned with a kind of [TS]

  popular commercial type of writing but [TS]

  for somebody who's looking for a [TS]

  challenging read this is definitely the [TS]

  kind of book that you'll want because [TS]

  it's it is it's not a simplistic read [TS]

  it's not just an adventure story [TS]

  not that there's anything wrong with [TS]

  those but like for me like there's two [TS]

  reasons i read I'm either looking just [TS]

  to be entertained i'm looking to be [TS]

  intellectually stimulated sometimes I [TS]

  get both which is cool but this one had [TS]

  thought into that second category it's [TS]

  it's a book that's going to stimulate me [TS]

  and it is written very beautifully it [TS]

  does just really cool things with [TS]

  narrative in terms of just like it [TS]

  there's no like straight narrative form [TS]

  here it's not you know there's not a [TS]

  normal climax you know that it doesn't [TS]

  go from a to the the rising action and [TS]

  all these kinds of sort of traditional [TS]

  structure it breaks it apart gives us [TS]

  all these different pieces to the world [TS]

  on its incredibly detailed so in that [TS]

  sense I think it's quite beautiful but [TS]

  it's very much a small beer press kind [TS]

  of book if you're a fan of small press [TS]

  you're probably gonna love this one [TS]

  storytelling is definitely the heart of [TS]

  it i mean the whole point the ghost [TS]

  entire thing is you will read a book [TS]

  about me you will write a book about me [TS]

  write it means a story that needs to be [TS]

  told this story needs to be told and [TS]

  this is a an illiterate kid who learns [TS]

  literacy and learns about the literature [TS]

  of this country and then visit the [TS]

  country i mean that is all part of [TS]

  what's going on here and if i was [TS]

  writing a you know a 10-page essay in a [TS]

  literature class in college about any of [TS]

  the books on this list I probably picked [TS]

  this one because it is rich and there's [TS]

  a lot going on here Fred do [TS]

  did you read this one yes I did that's I [TS]

  mean it [TS]

  well if if game was very economical and [TS]

  Chuck and is very old school [TS]

  this is i mean i-i thought of this is [TS]

  being more like a and all much too great [TS]

  literature there's one section I think [TS]

  like before the fifth chapter i'm like [TS]

  saying she quoting a culvers travels [TS]

  here because almost all my life I've [TS]

  read this i've read this somewhere [TS]

  yeah i was going back and forth between [TS]

  gulliver's travels in like candy or [TS]

  something I kept thinking of looks like [TS]

  that in overall I i really enjoyed it [TS]

  but it felt very rich for the length if [TS]

  it had been slightly shorter i could [TS]

  have digested it better that I loved the [TS]

  writing but i felt like i had eaten a [TS]

  ten-course meal by the end of the way [TS]

  out that moment when you get to the [TS]

  girl's story which one level you've been [TS]

  leading up to it the whole the whole way [TS]

  but I i I've that it kind of lost me [TS]

  there because I felt like we were I was [TS]

  so many levels of nested parentheses [TS]

  into this book at that point that I just [TS]

  couldn't bear to go down another level [TS]

  and and and that was happening at a time [TS]

  when actually the main narrative was in [TS]

  its most well I mean there's lots of [TS]

  really interesting things in this but i [TS]

  loved how evocative the broken-down [TS]

  abandoned castle on the edge of the [TS]

  known world weathers its it's cold and [TS]

  there's nothing but a cold dry desert [TS]

  and like an old lady living in a cave at [TS]

  you know several miles away [TS]

  I I loved that feeling that he's got his [TS]

  friend who may be dying and they don't [TS]

  have anything to eat and they're in this [TS]

  opulent but decrepit hunting lodge [TS]

  castle breaking up the furniture to stay [TS]

  warm [TS]

  that's so I've been so beautiful and [TS]

  evocative and interesting and in the [TS]

  midst of all that they're sort of like [TS]

  okay let me tell you a story and its [TS]

  back to one of the islands and this girl [TS]

  who we met who is now the ghost that's [TS]

  haunting him and I don't know something [TS]

  about that I just I got I got frustrated [TS]

  as a reader that was like I didn't feel [TS]

  like I was being challenged by her [TS]

  narrative at that point I felt like I [TS]

  was being I don't know whether it was [TS]

  being taken advantage of or just yeah I [TS]

  was being frustrated by that point but [TS]

  you're you're even educated at the style [TS]

  of writing [TS]

  that she just takes a step back and [TS]

  tells a straightforward tail [TS]

  alright I've hit you with all the [TS]

  legends that you have all the myths now [TS]

  here we go here's something just as good [TS]

  just shocking this you know what happens [TS]

  to this one person and not to be not to [TS]

  be too cynical about it but there are [TS]

  there are a few stories in there that I [TS]

  read and I thought this is this isn't [TS]

  dolt self-indulgent this is I've got [TS]

  some interesting world building and [TS]

  takes on some of these sort of Legends [TS]

  and I'm going to drop them all and show [TS]

  you all my notes and I swear [TS]

  goodreads tells me this is 300 pages [TS]

  long I if you had asked me I would've [TS]

  said it was like 500 pages long this is [TS]

  where the kindle I guess is a [TS]

  disadvantage because it felt like that [TS]

  it felt like you know just and again i [TS]

  enjoyed some of them but then they kept [TS]

  coming and I i ended up feeling kind of [TS]

  beaten up by the number of depressions [TS]

  and and they weren't you know any and a [TS]

  lot of them weren't that impressive to [TS]

  me it was more like oh ok [TS]

  yep tell me that come with the backstory [TS]

  of this thing it's like a short story in [TS]

  which every sentence contains ape a [TS]

  footnote containing another longer story [TS]

  explaining all the background of that [TS]

  sentence it was a little bit like that [TS]

  after haha [TS]

  while i was just like god it's you know [TS]

  it was you know and maybe that's my [TS]

  feeling is a reader but as a reader i [TS]

  felt like it was it was it was too much [TS]

  like I really got into it for a while [TS]

  and then I sort of soured on a little [TS]

  bit because because you know it is [TS]

  certainly intelligent and well written [TS]

  and challenging and interesting all of [TS]

  those things are true it just it it [TS]

  became frustrating to me for the end but [TS]

  there are the earth if things in this [TS]

  that images in this book that i will [TS]

  never forget because they are so [TS]

  beautiful and evocative an interesting [TS]

  the crazy we didn't even mention the [TS]

  Running of the Bulls style religious [TS]

  festival that happens getty where he had [TS]

  speedy ends up like naked in a pending [TS]

  it's it's a it's a long night for the [TS]

  big character but it's so beautiful [TS]

  beautiful and interesting and how he [TS]

  tells the story it's crazy also a first [TS]

  novel wow wow so amazing [TS]

  yeah it's actually really impressive the [TS]

  the number first novels that are also [TS]

  really really impressive and then of [TS]

  themselves based on what they're trying [TS]

  to [TS]

  do so I mean this and and and like and [TS]

  like his book you know they're very [TS]

  different types of books but they're [TS]

  each incredibly ambitious i feel which [TS]

  gives something like a brownie point i [TS]

  think yeah you can have the excuse of [TS]

  well you know my first novel was like [TS]

  well I've got some examples of other [TS]

  great first novels uh is the goldman the [TS]

  genie Helen workers first novel to yes [TS]

  yes if look at that up but singing [TS]

  Amazing which is another really [TS]

  interesting book [TS]

  yeah uh-huh so this one is what late its [TS]

  19th century New York you're eighteen [TS]

  nineties yeah yeah yeahs late 19th [TS]

  century New York it's a story of [TS]

  immigrants in this case in addition to [TS]

  the Jewish immigrants and the MIT the [TS]

  they're not if they're actually [TS]

  Christians but from from from Syria so [TS]

  we would think of this as a as a [TS]

  middle-eastern group of people but [TS]

  they're actually mostly Christians that [TS]

  are in the story they are all they could [TS]

  they come to the new to the new world [TS]

  seeking III new life and in and they are [TS]

  in New York City but the a golem and a [TS]

  genie also if are immigrants to New York [TS]

  City and and through a series of [TS]

  interesting events than the way the [TS]

  genie gets put in his not a bottle but a [TS]

  lamp is a is told in flashback the Golem [TS]

  story is told more straightforwardly in [TS]

  the narrative and you know boy when [TS]

  these two get together it's going to be [TS]

  interesting [TS]

  sparks flying and yeah and they're [TS]

  surrounded by all sorts of characters [TS]

  and there's a there's a character who [TS]

  creates the goal at the beginning you [TS]

  think you're not going to see again [TS]

  before you see him again and and anyway [TS]

  that's what this book is about I there's [TS]

  a golem and there's a genie [TS]

  suffice it to say Scott you told me that [TS]

  at one point this was your favorite book [TS]

  that you read this year [TS]

  it continues to be the favorite my [TS]

  favorite book that i've had this year i [TS]

  don't know i just well a guy i have a [TS]

  well-known bias towards books set in the [TS]

  19th century in New York City yes that's [TS]

  not so this hits those marks there's no [TS]

  detective sadly if there are detective [TS]

  this may be my favorite book ever that [TS]

  there's no detective so said I'm sorry [TS]

  Goldman Jeannie detective agency no new [TS]

  book can i pre order that is i'll take [TS]

  two copies [TS]

  I i really enjoyed this book I mean I [TS]

  still there are scenes in the book that [TS]

  I still think about every once in a [TS]

  while like this so the genie is set free [TS]

  by a tinsmith and then so basically the [TS]

  tinsmith who is you know he's a [TS]

  serviceable tinsmith but he doesn't have [TS]

  the power to melt metal with his hands [TS]

  as you know generally people don't so [TS]

  the genie basically says well I have [TS]

  nothing better to do so i'll help you [TS]

  who with your tinsmith he starts [TS]

  preparing pots of bands of things and [TS]

  and kind of doesn't really like it and [TS]

  then they get a job to make this ceiling [TS]

  new piece for an apartment and so the [TS]

  genie goes crazy and makes this [TS]

  beautiful map of you know with the [TS]

  service of the desert where he lived [TS]

  where his secrets are invisible palace [TS]

  is and it's a beautiful piece of artwork [TS]

  and everyone loves it [TS]

  except for the guy who owns the [TS]

  apartment building because he's like I'm [TS]

  not paying for this use the whole this [TS]

  till and this is like a you know a [TS]

  slumlord that I this is a slum why is [TS]

  this beautiful piece of art here and you [TS]

  know but anyway I still think about the [TS]

  description of that that's in peace [TS]

  every once in awhile yeah you're walking [TS]

  to the apartment they look up and all [TS]

  the sudden snaps into relief and they're [TS]

  like well yes exactly so I mean I just I [TS]

  just really liked it [TS]

  you reminded me of since we're listing [TS]

  things that these books remind us of I [TS]

  hide it reminds me a little bit of [TS]

  Kavalier and clay by michael chabon it [TS]

  just in the sense that it was it'sit's [TS]

  immigrant stories in New York it's sort [TS]

  of supernatural ish [TS]

  but you know it in the end it's this [TS]

  story of immigrants of people coming to [TS]

  a new world and being out sort of in a [TS]

  culture that's inside a different [TS]

  culture and mixed with these other [TS]

  cultures and how how they all interact [TS]

  in a kind of a big it's a big mess and [TS]

  they all interact and and push against [TS]

  one another in manhattan and this had [TS]

  that same feeling i love the fact that [TS]

  the you know that the golden the genie [TS]

  both are are immigrants as well kind of [TS]

  against their will but they're [TS]

  immigrants as well what did anybody else [TS]

  who read this one want to talk about a [TS]

  little bit I why I this is one of the [TS]

  ones that I they worked on today so I'm [TS]

  not quite finished with it but it is it [TS]

  is a book that i wish i had read earlier [TS]

  because as soon as they started reading [TS]

  it I knew it was going to be dealing [TS]

  with stuff that i would be interested in [TS]

  because it's not because it's dealing [TS]

  with like it's got a golem much as like [TS]

  the opening chapter is really [TS]

  fascinating when the the Golem is sort [TS]

  of created and then in the immediate [TS]

  step that follows after that's really [TS]

  interesting but I also really love that [TS]

  this was a book that was dealing with [TS]

  the immigration issue at a time period [TS]

  that's you know well before I was born [TS]

  and before anyone on this podcast was [TS]

  born unless somebody here is a vampire [TS]

  because it it's interesting to see you [TS]

  know that the Ellis Island stuff being [TS]

  dealt with in in a what is clearly a [TS]

  fantasy novel being dealt with very [TS]

  explicitly that there's a really great [TS]

  chapter in here where favorite character [TS]

  it is where he's sitting there and just [TS]

  briefly says that like Ellis Island guy [TS]

  says you know what your name is weird [TS]

  and we should just make it American and [TS]

  then they changed his name to like you [TS]

  know that's where the dark rabbi comes [TS]

  over right they just the change his name [TS]

  because his name is too hard for them [TS]

  yeah but that actually happened and it's [TS]

  like this really fascinating like moment [TS]

  in this book we're getting this very [TS]

  real experience but it's mediated [TS]

  through what is going to be a very [TS]

  fantastic element of the novel and i [TS]

  love that it deals with that and [TS]

  obviously is dealing with in terms of [TS]

  the column and the the genie in their [TS]

  own different here from ways and they're [TS]

  sort of attempts to kind of get you [TS]

  could almost say they're like allegories [TS]

  for sort of the immigrant experience [TS]

  but they also operate on their own [TS]

  because there are other immigrants that [TS]

  are actually trying to integrate into [TS]

  and you know 19th century American [TS]

  culture they both have their friends [TS]

  that are that are also part of the [TS]

  immigrant experience right whether the [TS]

  tinsmith and the people in that [TS]

  neighborhood or it's the the the rabbi [TS]

  and his son and the and the people at [TS]

  the bakery bakery people him [TS]

  yeah yeah or nephew right right yeah [TS]

  yeah right yeah yeah it's just [TS]

  fascinating i think is it as a book that [TS]

  deals with some really really heavy [TS]

  subjects but as it in a really beautiful [TS]

  way I'm even the relationship without [TS]

  between the column and the genie is just [TS]

  a really kind of beautiful thing there's [TS]

  some brilliant chapters where they're [TS]

  sort of interacting and there's one [TS]

  moment when the column and a genie [TS]

  acknowledge that they don't actually get [TS]

  along very well but that's more [TS]

  interesting to them that they have these [TS]

  arguments then if they just sort of [TS]

  dealt with what would be normal everyday [TS]

  happy conversations and i love that [TS]

  moment when they have that that when [TS]

  they realize like yeah we have like a [TS]

  true motorist relationship but it's [TS]

  actually kind of bed [TS]

  the coaches are out to the genie coaxes [TS]

  the Golem out to go for a walk basically [TS]

  and they walk the streets of you know [TS]

  you're eighteen nineties New York I in [TS]

  the dark in the middle of the night and [TS]

  that's why i love i love all of that to [TS]

  the imagery of them doing it and neither [TS]

  neither of them sleep so you know [TS]

  they've got a lot of free time and [TS]

  neither of them are going to be mug [TS]

  definitely not that's definitely not so [TS]

  i liked i really like that that that the [TS]

  the images of that and then there's a [TS]

  pivotal scene that happens in the park [TS]

  and fountain and you know and there's [TS]

  some interesting things with the genie [TS]

  before he meets the Golem where he meets [TS]

  a young lady of means in the city and [TS]

  and and how he interacts with her and [TS]

  and boy does he interact with her anyway [TS]

  uh home and she has a little of fire [TS]

  baby later anyway how as you do this [TS]

  well if you're gonna play around with a [TS]

  genie that might happen [TS]

  he's the stuff he's a fire elemental [TS]

  yeah I I I like this I like this book so [TS]

  much I can say it i just it is you know [TS]

  the two characters very interesting the [TS]

  supporting cast around the more [TS]

  interesting when they meet in their [TS]

  relationships great quite honestly if [TS]

  there hadn't been the plot motivation of [TS]

  the you know essentially the creator of [TS]

  the genie comes back and and and [TS]

  discovers that you know he's a very very [TS]

  bad man he discovers that she's there [TS]

  and he's trying to unlock secrets and it [TS]

  turns out that you know his story is [TS]

  much more complicated than we were led [TS]

  to believe and that's all fine it makes [TS]

  it makes for some jeopardy and makes the [TS]

  plot move at the end if it didn't exist [TS]

  in the book I would not like it any less [TS]

  i think if there was not the bad guy [TS]

  who's going around tryna I mean just the [TS]

  truth the life of the people like like [TS]

  her and her friend from the bakery who's [TS]

  being misled by a gentleman who she [TS]

  thinks is going to marry her but in fact [TS]

  he's a CAD stuff like that was I like [TS]

  that and how a golem reacts to that i [TS]

  thought was perfectly interesting i [TS]

  actually you know and I like the fact [TS]

  that the Golem so the whole point of the [TS]

  goals that she can senses other people's [TS]

  desires and wants to fulfill them and so [TS]

  she's working in this bakery and she can [TS]

  sense you know that you come in and your [TS]

  friends and you want you know a rye [TS]

  bread seedless rye bread so she knows [TS]

  that already and she has it ready but [TS]

  she can't do that she doesn't want to [TS]

  see anyone just give it to you because [TS]

  you can't expose that she's not a real [TS]

  person so she has to wait for you to ask [TS]

  and she also has to start making [TS]

  mistakes because she's working at the [TS]

  bakery making you know roles and things [TS]

  every single roll looks exactly the same [TS]

  and she's doing things like four times [TS]

  faster than everyone else so that she [TS]

  realizes oh I better start making some [TS]

  mistakes and slowing down because people [TS]

  figure out something's up but you can't [TS]

  resist doing things like if she knows [TS]

  that somebody's coming in they're sad [TS]

  and they would be happy if they have a [TS]

  cinnamon roll recommend Hill are you [TS]

  down [TS]

  maybe you should have a cinnamon roll [TS]

  just finding ways to interact with [TS]

  humans and not expose herself me this [TS]

  might be my favorite book of the year so [TS]

  far as well it not it not just for the [TS]

  main characters but two of the secondary [TS]

  characters really moved me [TS]

  first off the the good rabbi we want to [TS]

  go [TS]

  yes everybody yes especially you know [TS]

  he's just trying so hard to set a good [TS]

  example and teacher and get her ready to [TS]

  be independent because he knows you know [TS]

  he's got a limited amount of time [TS]

  yeah and his relationship with his [TS]

  nephew was wonderful and the other thing [TS]

  that really moved me was the the woman [TS]

  of means you know her her attempt to [TS]

  figure out what's going on with her and [TS]

  then what happens in Paris especially [TS]

  that little love when you've seen where [TS]

  the fire baby departs us especially you [TS]

  know not to get too personal but it as a [TS]

  as a parent who lost a child that was [TS]

  very moving to me so yeah yeah it was [TS]

  and again like I said about some of the [TS]

  other books here characters that didn't [TS]

  have to be that rich it you know and you [TS]

  would have been easy for a writer to be [TS]

  like well you know central casting it's [TS]

  a rabbi he's helpful but move on with [TS]

  the story or or this is a woman that the [TS]

  GV seduces and move on with the story [TS]

  and boy nobody gets short shrift like [TS]

  that the these characters are all they [TS]

  get there they get their moments and [TS]

  they are they go beyond what is required [TS]

  sort of just move the story along you [TS]

  get a lot more detail about the men in [TS]

  fact that the the girl you know the [TS]

  woman who who the genie has his affair [TS]

  with his fling with his his fire baby [TS]

  makings with you know she comes back [TS]

  around as important as the story goes [TS]

  along too so it's uh it's really you [TS]

  know it's really nicely done and it's [TS]

  not the kind of book that i would i [TS]

  would that would leap off the shelf as [TS]

  as a somebody who's not an aficionado [TS]

  for 19th century New York detective [TS]

  stories like Scott so foolish arm I this [TS]

  one didn't jump out at me and yet [TS]

  boy it's really good it's just it's it's [TS]

  fun and the characters are good and the [TS]

  it their unexpected things that happen [TS]

  and you know it's yeah it's III don't [TS]

  know what more to say it's surprising [TS]

  and and it's just good all the way [TS]

  through so good job only wacker another [TS]

  first novel Bravo [TS]

  space the final frontier [TS]

  these are the voyages of being [TS]

  comfortable is very own Scott McNulty as [TS]

  he branches out onto his new podcast [TS]

  random track from the people who brought [TS]

  you the uncomfortable mostly Scott [TS]

  although i'm on the first episode random [TS]

  track is a podcast where we watch a [TS]

  randomly selected episode of Star Trek [TS]

  Scott and a guest check it out it's [TS]

  brand-new we just started at the [TS]

  incomparable dot-com / random Trek [TS]

  that's the incomparable dot-com / random [TS]

  Trek [TS]

  so that's that's eight books we have not [TS]

  talked about eight books [TS]

  Scott talked about one of himself which [TS]

  was good [TS]

  that's fine and I was like Scott's [TS]

  somebody can thank you for doing [TS]

  somebody had to read it [TS]

  somebody hydrated uh I want to go around [TS]

  before we go and sort ask you of the [TS]

  other books here that you read what [TS]

  would be your favorite one [TS]

  if you had to pick or favorite what you [TS]

  know if you can't pick and you can you [TS]

  can whip out and stay I like these two [TS]

  or three but if you can if you had a [TS]

  vote for the nebula what would be your [TS]

  what would be your vote [TS]

  Fred what do you think well it would [TS]

  have gone with the column in the genie [TS]

  for me all right [TS]

  no hands down that was the the top [TS]

  choice for me [TS]

  alright Paul what do you think Angela [TS]

  justice ancillary justice people like [TS]

  you are giving netbook lots of awards so [TS]

  yeah I ok I guess L Sean oh this is not [TS]

  fair you know I know why would you do [TS]

  this to me i know i'm doing it to myself [TS]

  to I don't know what I'm even gonna say [TS]

  that was gone haha man it is no are you [TS]

  torn between a few i'm torn between [TS]

  three yeah because I answer Justice [TS]

  stranger no laundry and the column and [TS]

  the gene you're all i think really [TS]

  incredible novels for very different [TS]

  reasons I don't know I maybe I'd lean a [TS]

  little bit more towards the latter two [TS]

  just in terms of the out of the gate [TS]

  quality because I think ancillary [TS]

  justice in some cases a little uneven [TS]

  but I understand why it got picked [TS]

  because it makes total sense that gets [TS]

  an ambitious freaking novel [TS]

  yeah I mean I i well let's just say the [TS]

  golem in the genie around but like it's [TS]

  like 11 billion of a percentage point [TS]

  about so you know I could I could read [TS]

  the others again and then it could swing [TS]

  the other way [TS]

  sure that we don't feel bad about myself [TS]

  later I am I am torn between government [TS]

  Jeannie ancillary justice and the ocean [TS]

  at the end of the lane actually those [TS]

  three and and you know and i think we [TS]

  are all completely [TS]

  beside ourselves would be up there with [TS]

  it for me other than the fact like i [TS]

  said i'm going to disqualify it only [TS]

  because it's not really science fiction [TS]

  but I like I loved it too but those are [TS]

  the other three I have a hard time with [TS]

  picking among all of them and you know [TS]

  if you ask me today i might go back to [TS]

  the one that i read the longest time ago [TS]

  which is the ocean at the end of the [TS]

  lane [TS]

  I you know it's I think it's easy there [TS]

  a way we talk about to first novels and [TS]

  neil gaiman right and it's easy to just [TS]

  be like look it's me okay man he's fine [TS]

  he doesn't need to win anymore awards [TS]

  everybody knows who he is and that's [TS]

  true but boy that's a really really good [TS]

  book i really enjoyed it but at the same [TS]

  time you know Chancellor justices is a a [TS]

  really good example of a science modern [TS]

  science fiction novel and you know it's [TS]

  a good book but it also is a very much a [TS]

  science fiction novel in the tradition [TS]

  of the genre so at the end of the day i [TS]

  would i would have to flip a coin [TS]

  between neil gaiman and and telling [TS]

  workers come in the genie is just depend [TS]

  on how i was feeling that day and it [TS]

  would be tough for me too because all [TS]

  three of those books are really good and [TS]

  that's it's nice to have such good books [TS]

  on a list especially I gotta say this is [TS]

  a pretty good list scott and i have read [TS]

  the hugo nominees the last few years and [TS]

  that has not always been a pleasant [TS]

  experience some of those books are not [TS]

  books we liked at all and i had no [TS]

  experience like that with these books [TS]

  no I liked all of these books yeah yeah [TS]

  these these books all have things to [TS]

  record even stranger laundry which I did [TS]

  not love because of the reasons I I [TS]

  enumerated i can't i can't deny it being [TS]

  well written and I see why people would [TS]

  really like it because it is a it is a [TS]

  very carefully constructed high-quality [TS]

  well-written book even though I didn't [TS]

  love it and that that's yeah that's [TS]

  pretty good crop yeah imagine if we had [TS]

  to actually vote on this in the hugo [TS]

  award [TS]

  yeah that would be like there be people [TS]

  fighting each other just be a very [TS]

  terrifying experience with all those all [TS]

  those good things I said about you know [TS]

  and and then we also about the red first [TS]

  light of the seven books I probably read [TS]

  it I probably rank at seventh and it's a [TS]

  good book [TS]

  it's not a bad look at all and then [TS]

  there's Hills which i did read some who [TS]

  knows it's a question mark where we go [TS]

  good job nebula I mean look at things [TS]

  Scott didn't answer the question though [TS]

  Scott oh yeah Jason doesn't care about [TS]

  my opinion I do because Scott this is [TS]

  the big question is answered justice was [TS]

  your favorite book of last year in the [TS]

  goldman the genie is your favorite book [TS]

  so far this year [TS]

  you must choose i must choose well I [TS]

  think if I were depends on how i was [TS]

  going to vote a like if the contractor [TS]

  to put around my vote if i was going to [TS]

  vote for the book that i think would win [TS]

  although now I know which one win and I [TS]

  would vote for Chancellor justice [TS]

  because i think could pick it did win [TS]

  that is amazing [TS]

  just because of what we what everyone [TS]

  has said before it's kind of like it's a [TS]

  bold kind of ambitious science fiction [TS]

  me d science fiction book that is just [TS]

  like yes you should give this book a [TS]

  science fiction award it deserves our [TS]

  one award with a spaceship on that it's [TS]

  not exactly trophy with a spaceship yeah [TS]

  whereas i love the gold in the genie so [TS]

  if I were just voting for the book that [TS]

  I like the most [TS]

  I would pick the goal in the genie but [TS]

  it feels weird to give that book a [TS]

  science fiction or even though i know [TS]

  this is science fiction and fantasy when [TS]

  answer justice is in the mix I wouldn't [TS]

  be outraged if any of these books have [TS]

  1i would have question maybe fire with [TS]

  fire but i still like fire with fire so [TS]

  of any of them what I think we're going [TS]

  to find pic whereas you said past hugo [TS]

  nominees I would have been outraged [TS]

  friend books 1 alright so I Goldman [TS]

  Goldman the genie is the one that you [TS]

  would probably pick if you had to pick [TS]

  if I was voting with my heart [TS]

  alright I'm outnumbered [TS]

  yeah but not the but it's like by the [TS]

  thinnest of margins right i mean [TS]

  everybody agrees how good ancillary [TS]

  justices to maybe if I [TS]

  read The Golem the genie i would i would [TS]

  make I would make this unanimous wraps [TS]

  his paws find out [TS]

  yeah but get public calls say something [TS]

  really cool about answer Justice real [TS]

  quick that one little thing the the the [TS]

  incredible use of language and pronouns [TS]

  and genders and explore exploring [TS]

  exploring that in in a science-fiction [TS]

  space opera setting in a way that few [TS]

  authors dare to do these days [TS]

  ok answer justice gets my vote again how [TS]

  I i was going to pile on and say [TS]

  ancillary justice [TS]

  I i think you know we said this on our [TS]

  podcast we did about it I i think it [TS]

  gets kind of / praise for the gender [TS]

  issues they're there but I feel like [TS]

  what I said at the time was I don't feel [TS]

  like that's a book about gender so much [TS]

  as it's a book about identity and and so [TS]

  although the gender thing is really [TS]

  interesting what i think is fantastic is [TS]

  that it's about identity on a broad [TS]

  scale like literally if you're a [TS]

  spaceship with hundreds of ancillary [TS]

  Ruiz who are you [TS]

  and then if you're collapse down into [TS]

  one who are you [TS]

  if you are an emperor who can speak [TS]

  duplicates of yourself and now there are [TS]

  you force yourself into different bodies [TS]

  who who's the real you is there one who [TS]

  are you I mean there's so many different [TS]

  a gender is one part of identity or [TS]

  perhaps the books arguing not as [TS]

  important a part of the identity but but [TS]

  that's what this book is about it's like [TS]

  who are who are you [TS]

  what is identity and we talked about [TS]

  ambitious first novel broad sci-fi [TS]

  canvas and this topic of identity of the [TS]

  core of it just like I amazing she has [TS]

  written a few stories before one of [TS]

  which was never gonna be late as i [TS]

  recall [TS]

  yes so yes this is not our first rodeo [TS]

  but this is the first long rodeo and [TS]

  it's a bad it's an interesting ambitious [TS]

  and she she nailed it so you know [TS]

  there's no shame and in voted for [TS]

  ancillary justice i think we all give up [TS]

  fraction of our vote to it if we could [TS]

  write just split it and it's imaginary [TS]

  so let's say we did [TS]

  hey [TS]

  and just remember the Hugo's have a [TS]

  preferential voting system so yeah now [TS]

  when i wrote down my choices here I did [TS]

  actually write numbers next to them [TS]

  figure like you guys I didn't write down [TS]

  no award because I'm you know they're [TS]

  all good [TS]

  that's where grant was nothing we could [TS]

  we get there is no mere grad so we [TS]

  didn't have to do that you got any way I [TS]

  I've got parasite on my bedside [TS]

  nightstand [TS]

  I already checked out from the library [TS]

  because it was not made available in the [TS]

  hugo packet so i just checked it up in [TS]

  the library and i'm reading parasite [TS]

  right now i'll be dipping into that [TS]

  because you gotta read all the human [TS]

  omni's to that's another podcast you [TS]

  guys I it was really fun to bring in [TS]

  bringing the ringers the science-fiction [TS]

  ringers for many other podcasts who and [TS]

  and get more voices to read these uh all [TS]

  these these many many many books it was [TS]

  a lot of fun to talk about books for for [TS]

  an overnight with you it was it was a [TS]

  pleasure we did snatch one earring [TS]

  comparable people for one of our podcast [TS]

  our podcast so I guess we're returning [TS]

  the favor [TS]

  it was America yeah yeah I I think [TS]

  technically she's she's verities and we [TS]

  already she's not here a lot yeah we [TS]

  what we're trying to do you know where [TS]

  we're she's on extended loan to us by [TS]

  capital but it's it's nice i like i like [TS]

  the mixing of all the people all over [TS]

  the place so it's it's I think it's [TS]

  really cool tab people and that's one [TS]

  reason I wanted you guys on is is it's a [TS]

  kind of fun to let the people who listen [TS]

  to this show here you guys and then you [TS]

  know they can they can follow you back [TS]

  to these many other podcast that that [TS]

  you're on and and again i have to point [TS]

  out the hugo nominated skippy and [TS]

  fantasy and Hugo nominated SF signal so [TS]

  not bad pretty nice and the america of [TS]

  course for the hugo nominated Verity [TS]

  great category podcasts can't get a [TS]

  great category our favorite and the [TS]

  incomparable Hugo nominated adjacent [TS]

  haha cool the more people we invite on [TS]

  her humor nominees eventually you know [TS]

  we will be as if we were nominated for [TS]

  that i'm just gonna click onto my all [TS]

  some of us did nominate you [TS]

  it just like that's very that's very [TS]

  kind of you i i i believe I'm not [TS]

  allowed to nominate myself so i did [TS]

  yesterday I can I know anything okay [TS]

  I i nominated nominated [TS]

  I nominated both of those podcasts the [TS]

  SF signal the skiff and fancy and also [TS]

  Verity so who says my nominees don't get [TS]

  picked up three of them did a podcast [TS]

  category all right so thank you fred [TS]

  kiss you've been here from the as a [TS]

  listener from the beginning it was nice [TS]

  to have you on and people can hear you [TS]

  SF signal and the three horsemen correct [TS]

  that's correct mr. alright I a pleasure [TS]

  to finally have you on in person [TS]

  I appreciate it Palmer many podcasts [TS]

  including skippy and fantasy and SF [TS]

  signal any others that you want to [TS]

  mention any other plugs you would like [TS]

  to do before we go [TS]

  yeah I I think I did all my plugs and [TS]

  skipping fancy is my major home and [TS]

  that's a single they let me on now and [TS]

  again and maybe they will get on the [TS]

  horn again someday if the Fred cannot [TS]

  unbarred the door for me will say very [TS]

  nice very nice and Sean Duke skippy and [TS]

  fanti really fun podcast I've been [TS]

  enjoying listening you've got a whole [TS]

  bunch of different episodes too i was in [TS]

  your Babylon 5 watch episodes which were [TS]

  fun [TS]

  yeah just lots of good stuff there [TS]

  anything else you'd like to plug your [TS]

  going to London we just don't know what [TS]

  you're eating yet [TS]

  yeah i don't know what i'm eating that [TS]

  i'll be in that country somehow i'll be [TS]

  arriving on boat in a crate nice i was [TS]

  sleeping on this top deck of a [TS]

  double-decker bus most likely yeah yeah [TS]

  it's a good way to get around but I [TS]

  guess you just say my personal blog [TS]

  which is the world in a satin bag and [TS]

  the website is just w is B dot blog [TS]

  spot.com great i will put those links in [TS]

  the show notes to for people who want to [TS]

  check that out and can't break things [TS]

  down when they're listening to a podcast [TS]

  because that you know you're probably [TS]

  driving when you're listening to this [TS]

  and don't stop to write things down [TS]

  because you'll crash and die that would [TS]

  be bad well if you stopped and yeah you [TS]

  can stop and write it down that's true [TS]

  just will not not like suddenly in the [TS]

  middle of the street I guess is what I'm [TS]

  saying why did you stop sir well I'd [TS]

  write down the name of a blog that until [TS]

  I and Scott we don't think i'm not going [TS]

  to forget you where where can people [TS]

  listen to you Scott if [TS]

  we're just listen to the inner voice [TS]

  inside of you and that would be you [TS]

  that's me obvious yeah that's where i'll [TS]

  be there when whenever there's a man [TS]

  reading science fiction novel whenever [TS]

  there's a lady reading science fiction [TS]

  novel writing a first novel and getting [TS]

  nominated winning an award [TS]

  I'll be there watch out his life now [TS]

  Scott is there watching us right [TS]

  luckily no scary i was trying to do what [TS]

  what is that is that a shadow no no i'll [TS]

  be there that some groups rap is that it [TS]

  yeah that's what I was going for their [TS]

  or the shadow Scott yeah sure [TS]

  for the uncomfortable I've been jason l [TS]

  thank you for listening I hope you found [TS]

  some really good book suggestions that [TS]

  you can read and stay tuned we'll be [TS]

  back in a month or two with a hugo [TS]

  nominees podcasts one if it if everybody [TS]

  reads the books I know Scott and I will [TS]

  lead them as we did alright thanks for [TS]

  listening [TS]

  goodbye [TS]