0:00:00this episode of Roderick on the wine is
0:00:01sponsored by cards against humanity this
0:00:04month they asked the double clicks to
0:00:06help me say hi to john
0:00:11it's big
0:00:16[Music]
0:00:22hello hi John hi Merlin how's it going
0:00:26good I i had some audio problems there
0:00:30and then I realized what I had done is I
0:00:32had muted muted the computer
0:00:36oh whatever happened to you i'm betting
0:00:42happens dormant yeah yeah i was watching
0:00:45The Young Ones last night on the YouTube
0:00:49and then I i I'm muted it after a while
0:00:54I just wanted to capture the visual
0:00:58components of civilians stick
0:01:00yeah I muted I think because it didn't
0:01:03because it because it wasn't as great as
0:01:05I remembered it being when in 1984
0:01:08yeah that's that that's that's a tall
0:01:10order yeah it's still it's still pretty
0:01:12manic did you watch University Challenge
0:01:13I did ya boy it's got its moments though
0:01:16you Lori Lori you get that get the m
0:01:20thompson yes team right all Emma
0:01:22Thompson isn't she wonderful
0:01:23mm you got you got to your head yeah
0:01:27Motorhead's there who all the greats in
0:01:30des moines animated sock at one point I
0:01:32think so and there's a yeah there are a
0:01:34few there's an animated sock that the
0:01:36washing machines rebell but let let's
0:01:41not talk about the young ones as much as
0:01:43I want to my this layers you know you
0:01:45got the other got to get a story you got
0:01:47your laundry gotta be story University
0:01:50Challenge you gotta see story which is
0:01:52no really really needs to use the toilet
0:01:54yeah if it keeps in his buzzer that's
0:01:57good stuff
0:01:58oh but
0:02:01really have to go there's an episode of
0:02:03that show i don't think it's that 1i but
0:02:06it might be is that the wonders of this
0:02:08very brief like 30 second flash where
0:02:10they all play each other
0:02:12yeah that there is that and that's
0:02:14wonderful
0:02:15and then you only ever heard the guy who
0:02:17plays Neil I mean I don't unfamiliar
0:02:19with stuff he's done outside of their
0:02:21it's so weird to hear him not being Neil
0:02:22well yeah and and Rick does such a
0:02:26fantastic impression million billion
0:02:30that you're like oh wow that's a while
0:02:32that was really good you know then that
0:02:34show actually did introduce me to
0:02:36Motorhead I had no experience of
0:02:38motörhead until nineteen eighty-four
0:02:40whatever when I saw a Motorhead perform
0:02:42ace of spades on the young ones and I
0:02:44said whatever the hell kind of music
0:02:46that is I want it i'm gonna- name
0:02:50yeah yeah well i would go so far as to
0:02:52say that with the exception of glycine
0:02:54remember very well i would say madness
0:02:56with the exception of maybe like madness
0:02:57and they can you eat the man that the
0:02:59date when the damn door on there when
0:03:01they were in their vampire looking stage
0:03:03yeah I knew about the Damned because i
0:03:06was a big fan of Captain sensible oh I
0:03:10asked one of those names i just know
0:03:11from books
0:03:12captain sensible was a member of the
0:03:15Damned and he had a single very early on
0:03:19in mtv single called Walt wot ? huh
0:03:25the chorus to which meant i said captain
0:03:28that they said captain I said one is a
0:03:31captain
0:03:32so why this video like Captain so what
0:03:37and then some mother with lyrics is
0:03:40where it's almost a little bit papi
0:03:42well yeah it's it's sort of its little
0:03:44rappy and he is walking around sort of
0:03:48English and a hundred Allah o always
0:03:52thought it was public housing but maybe
0:03:53it is a hotel and and I really really
0:03:57connected with that song when i was 13
0:03:59or 14 and sew them then I they learn
0:04:02about the damned backwards which I guess
0:04:05you know how we're gonna do
0:04:07african-american and Puerto Rican people
0:04:12in particular from New York City get a
0:04:14lot of
0:04:14credit for hip-hop mhm i don't think we
0:04:17give enough credit all the way people to
0:04:18help hip-hop well-proven colons and cute
0:04:20and columnist Mike use all that was I
0:04:22mean that's the Rosetta Stone of Rapids
0:04:24be honest
0:04:25yeah it goes do you take James Brown you
0:04:28take your George Clinton but let's be
0:04:29honest it goes all the way back to a
0:04:31italian comedian yeah yeah who's making
0:04:34up who's making mouth sounds let you
0:04:37know so sure I mean he's word let's be
0:04:39honest he basically created rap
0:04:41yeah but then any would wrap have gotten
0:04:44big
0:04:45if it weren't for Captain sensible if it
0:04:47weren't for uh Falco right if it weren't
0:04:51for blondie right they really
0:04:53popularized the genre i think so yeah
0:04:57yeah they should there should be like a
0:04:58baseball hall-of-fame except for the
0:05:02white people that really help wrap it in
0:05:06accountancy minnetonka know my parade
0:05:12sure and what about well now i'm trying
0:05:16to think did did annoying lift balloon
0:05:21now that's such a rap song
0:05:23see that's a you know just the Germans
0:05:26just the Germans and the Austrians alone
0:05:28that that helped popularize wrap that's
0:05:30a really good point i don't think i
0:05:31don't think white germanic peoples get
0:05:34the credit they deserve well for most
0:05:36things that don't
0:05:37well that's true that's good very
0:05:38well-organized think about how I think
0:05:40about the trains no sure I do I think
0:05:43about the trains know I know you pop
0:05:45would have gotten bigger if they spend
0:05:46more time doing German versions of songs
0:05:48like EE take something you know like a
0:05:50rappers delight I think if they done in
0:05:51German as well apparently they did that
0:05:53like very quickly you know and like a
0:05:55take
0:05:55yeah well it'sit's it shows be given
0:05:59given the amount of technical and vocal
0:06:01dexterity that is required in
0:06:04contemporary rap when you listen to
0:06:06Sugar Hill Gang we listen to the
0:06:09original original like formative Rap
0:06:12Tracks it really does feel like people
0:06:14are improvising some words and i think
0:06:17one of the dudes the kids biggest part
0:06:19was ghostwritten I know this from
0:06:21probably a public radio show tonight
0:06:23what I know about rappers lame also also
0:06:25something that really popular
0:06:27strap public radio well I think could be
0:06:30honest with you I think I don't think
0:06:32Public Radio gets the credit it deserves
0:06:34you're right for making hip hop as big
0:06:36as it is it is you know you you have
0:06:39you've opened a a a whole line of
0:06:41inquiry there needs to be a netflix
0:06:43series about this that enough with the
0:06:44weed documentaries enough with the
0:06:46documentaries about food
0:06:48how about a six-part documentary on
0:06:50history of white people in rap music
0:06:51like you're like your crazy uncle yeah
0:06:54here's my name and I'm here to say like
0:06:55at the wedding reception you know for
0:06:57sure well you know I actually have some
0:06:59this is awful
0:07:01what I'm about to reveal but pre beastie
0:07:04boys gonna say 84 my friends and I had a
0:07:10rap group
0:07:11hmm Wow and utterly days it and this is
0:07:16this is terrible but we were called the
0:07:18white fresh crew the weight freshman
0:07:20right yeah and we were Alaska that's
0:07:25right it does everything it says on the
0:07:27tin except for being fresh and being a
0:07:29crook
0:07:30we were created has been the white and
0:07:32i'm pretty sure that we sculpt crew like
0:07:34Motley Crue oh nice ride the white fresh
0:07:37crew
0:07:38uh-huh and what we didn't I'm not
0:07:41embarrassed about this but it's hot it
0:07:43maybe is hard to imagine it's almost
0:07:46like a alternate universe door that we
0:07:50didn't step through but we would on a
0:07:53friday night go into my basement and
0:07:57beatbox out here and rap to each other
0:08:04just and it was just the three or four
0:08:07of us and we wouldn't we would march in
0:08:15a circle right so we'd start walking and
0:08:23then we would take turns improvin and
0:08:28and but we will but we're marching right
0:08:31because because i am I don't know maybe
0:08:34the maybe the look or the rhythm of like
0:08:37four guys standing in a circle and of
0:08:40moving
0:08:41arms in a penis or like boom boom you
0:08:43know like yo-yo way maybe that had
0:08:46evolved yet more like a like a street
0:08:49corner and less like a circle jerk
0:08:50should have some emotion and what we
0:08:53were moving right yeah sure marching
0:08:55marching in a circle and we were kind of
0:08:57we were so we're doing the exact thing
0:08:59that we're wrapping into the center of
0:09:02the circle right we were marching like
0:09:04rapping in the back of our heads we were
0:09:06wrapping into the middle but we were we
0:09:08were emotion it's gonna get that kind of
0:09:11breakdancing vibe we got people kind of
0:09:13shucking and jiving next circle that's
0:09:14right that's right and we were we were
0:09:17with there was a breakdancing element
0:09:19but none of us would would would
0:09:21necessarily try to try to do any
0:09:24breaking but a you know it was tall
0:09:27wrapping around here where the white
0:09:29first crew and we take no crap you dish
0:09:32it out and it don't come back type of
0:09:34run DMC style rhymes
0:09:37yeah I caught the 123456 around yeah and
0:09:42we do this we did this for quite a while
0:09:46as a as a sort of you know friday
0:09:50evening half rack of beer and we were
0:09:55not we were doing it out of a kind of
0:09:58just pure enthusiasm for the style so
0:10:03this was so we were fans of DMC and the
0:10:07boogie boys and and the this like first
0:10:11generation of popularized like but rap
0:10:14music that had be become popularized to
0:10:16to mainstream right well i mean let me
0:10:20ask you this
0:10:21I know you and I are famously fast and
0:10:22loose with dates and I'm not trying to
0:10:24pin you down can you
0:10:25because it helps the story a little bit
0:10:26can you really mostly locate that in
0:10:29around nineteen eighty-four cuz that
0:10:31would also be around the time of
0:10:32Flashdance yeah which I mean select the
0:10:35right there at that I knew was like I
0:10:37knew the Apache song I knew about you
0:10:40you know I knew the the rapper's delight
0:10:42and you rapture I don't think it even
0:10:44heard nucleus yet jam on it was the one
0:10:47that made me fall in love with
0:10:48wrap-around i love jam on it with a
0:10:51little funny voice Wicky Wicky Wicky
0:10:53shut up you know
0:10:54but the 94 is a big year because thats
0:10:56you got it was really crossing over into
0:10:59like those videos there was there was
0:11:02famously there was breakdancing in
0:11:04Flashdance remember she comes she joins
0:11:06in with the kids that cute hat and she
0:11:08comes out and dances there was before
0:11:10was the year that rap broke
0:11:12what was the year of the movie breakin a
0:11:16break-in break-in came out drinking
0:11:18drinking prime I'm not easy for ya
0:11:23breaking came out in 84 and you know and
0:11:25that should have been a second one of
0:11:26this
0:11:26well they did that like electric blue
0:11:30sad you it's the canonical second movie
0:11:34chip break-in and 84 so breaking came
0:11:38out and I feel like I mean you know
0:11:41again we're talking about anchorage but
0:11:44this was the this was them i think the
0:11:47exact moment when Alaska k the culture
0:11:50in Alaska caught up to the culture in
0:11:54America and now the two cultures were
0:11:56happening simultaneous with water
0:11:58contemporaneously right up until that
0:12:01point all of our television was on a was
0:12:04on a week delay because the Carson show
0:12:07would happen and then they would
0:12:08literally bundle the tapes up and fly
0:12:11them to Alaska and play them you know
0:12:15play them the following week
0:12:17wow so but even worse than that most
0:12:22cultural things disco and so forth like
0:12:24disco arrived in anchorage in about
0:12:27nineteen eighty years 79 right it was it
0:12:31was it was like time-delayed it was it
0:12:33was time delay all culture was sort of
0:12:35time delayed up there and in some ways
0:12:38that still is because if you get off an
0:12:39airplane in in Anchorage now it feels
0:12:41like it's 1994 i can tell you almost i
0:12:44think i can tell you almost everything i
0:12:45know about Alaska in like four bullets
0:12:49it's one of those two last States we
0:12:51strapped on that's right ok you got
0:12:53baked alaska which is really fancy fancy
0:12:55dessert on Alaska is where where Santa
0:13:00lives which is not actually correct and
0:13:02you've got uh you got that everything
0:13:05that the footnote at the bottom very
0:13:06commercial
0:13:07prices something like prices higher in
0:13:09Alaska Hawaii
0:13:10yeah I don't think that even happens
0:13:12anymore i think that's from the
0:13:13seventies to that was always I mean
0:13:15every series commercial or whatever and
0:13:16Sergeant my gosh what one must be so
0:13:18difficult about that
0:13:19well yeah that you have to put it on a
0:13:21seal and barge but but in 1984 right we
0:13:26finally all had MTV and and it was
0:13:30happening cable TV allowed things to
0:13:33happen in real time and so we were
0:13:35seeing what America was seeing I was
0:13:39almost like time travel is also he
0:13:40skipped two years
0:13:41yeah we did it was just like everything
0:13:43got really fast all of a sudden and so
0:13:46we're we were up there
0:13:47formerly still really enthralled with
0:13:51Boston second record and then all of a
0:13:55sudden like rap music descended upon us
0:13:58and and new wave and pumpkin all sort of
0:14:02arrived at once in 80 81 82 so anyway 84
0:14:08yeah we're up there and and at that
0:14:10point there wasn't any there wasn't any
0:14:16indication that that there would be
0:14:20white rappers but but also there wasn't
0:14:25it was still sort of that mix of like
0:14:27there wasn't any indication that there
0:14:29would never be a white Michael Jackson
0:14:30either but didn't keep us all from being
0:14:33michael jackson all the time until at
0:14:36least tomorrow is it was it was uniquely
0:14:37located I mean I learned in retrospect
0:14:39that there are many other there's lots
0:14:41there's lots more to it than the obvious
0:14:42stuff but the stuff we knew about was
0:14:44mostly black people in a very urban
0:14:46setting in New York like maybe even in a
0:14:47identified as a borough of New York i
0:14:50will so that's in the seventies i think
0:14:51by the early eighties it had it had
0:14:53disseminated they disseminated pretty
0:14:57widely it was just that it didn't mean
0:15:00in the public eye
0:15:01what ya bum ya you mean to white people
0:15:05well yeah I mean I'm here looking at the
0:15:07wikipedia page 494 hop hop and you got
0:15:10you run DMC the first run DMC record you
0:15:12got Houdini right although 1984 the
0:15:15first run DMC record which which
0:15:17descended upon us like a like a thousand
0:15:20ton
0:15:21right that we knew every word in that
0:15:24album Mike my group of friends and I and
0:15:27whatever was crazy was when that beastie
0:15:29boys record came out which was in 86
0:15:31only a couple years later it was it was
0:15:35that weird feeling like wait a minute we
0:15:38thought of this but if we were doing
0:15:40this exact thing that could have been us
0:15:42it could have been us
0:15:44yeah they could have come from Alaska
0:15:46instead of three Jewish kids from from
0:15:48the lower east side if we could have
0:15:51been the Alaska Beastie Boys and so
0:15:54there was a lot of I felt a lot of sort
0:15:57of resentment to that first pc boys
0:15:59record because it was almost exactly
0:16:01what we would have done right whiny
0:16:03drinky like you would a person
0:16:06essentially helped to liven up and
0:16:09refresh the genre with a whole new spin
0:16:12and and and production like nobody's
0:16:14ever heard before
0:16:15well but it was it like automatically
0:16:17right the beastie boys did not try to be
0:16:20anything that they weren't all right
0:16:22yeah they were just like we are not just
0:16:24kids where snot-nosed kids and these
0:16:26songs are about masturbation and
0:16:28drinking beer and aspiring to be to be
0:16:34cool and that that's you know that was
0:16:36kind of the that was what was cool about
0:16:38them but that is also what would have
0:16:41been cool about the white fresh crew
0:16:42crew didn't have a tree since John I
0:16:47don't know we mean only started having a
0:16:49lot over the you
0:16:51oh yes it did it I mean that we didn't
0:16:55we spend a lot more time drawing album
0:16:57covers for the truly awful band which
0:17:00was which was our other music act truly
0:17:04awful man in the white fresh crew were
0:17:06pretty much the same members and the
0:17:08same and the same era as a lot easier
0:17:12talking about did the stratosphere tense
0:17:13situation yeah exactly exactly were the
0:17:15we were the head cotys as well as being
0:17:18the head coats
0:17:19uh-huh
0:17:20[Music]
0:17:22but but alas neither neither act mean
0:17:27the truly awful band actually played a
0:17:29couple of shows who I think the I think
0:17:32if we get our rap i think maybe we we
0:17:36tried to wrap at a party once where r
0:17:40where female a component was their
0:17:43female component of my gang
0:17:46yeah and the girls in my gang worse were
0:17:50stronger than the boys as is also often
0:17:55the case and they scorned us we started
0:18:00to wrap in a circle
0:18:01I'm sorry I'm gonna hurt we got scored
0:18:03pretty hard so we stopped doing that
0:18:06oh we stopped doing it publicly I think
0:18:08we kept doing it amongst ourselves for a
0:18:10while the other problem was I don't
0:18:12think we ever wrote our raps down
0:18:14because we understood it to be an extemp
0:18:18rising games and oral tradition that's
0:18:21right and so it was we never SAT like
0:18:23him like eminem in the bus scrolling are
0:18:28rhymes in a notebook
0:18:30we just we just let them go into the air
0:18:33so if you've got if you will be like
0:18:35you'll be like writing a short story
0:18:36about touch football like that you just
0:18:38go out and play touch football you in
0:18:39right about it like a pretty small
0:18:41yeah so it was it was if you if you
0:18:44scored a good a good little but bomo as
0:18:49they say this and wrap and wrap you
0:18:52would just everyone would acknowledge it
0:18:54with like maha uh-huh but then it's not
0:18:57like you would try and grab it and then
0:18:58put a leash on it and drag it back to
0:19:00earth also yeah you're very least in the
0:19:04times I've known your we're more prosaic
0:19:05em there's a I'm not to say that you're
0:19:08not capable of short blasts of spitting
0:19:12rhymes as they say but you know you're
0:19:14more of a long-form probably stop
0:19:16polysyllabic kind of guy
0:19:17well this was your fellow your flow
0:19:19works on five thousand word level this
0:19:21is what I mean about stepping through a
0:19:23stepping through it a door to another
0:19:26thing right there all those moments when
0:19:28you look back in life and go if that
0:19:30head because it absolutely resonated
0:19:33with me and connected
0:19:34me and with my friends if we had felt
0:19:38just that little bit more liberty to to
0:19:43say this is actually something that i
0:19:45really want to do you know you step
0:19:47through and then maybe I would have
0:19:48become somebody that because it when I
0:19:50several years later i was living in a
0:19:53house where all of my roommates were
0:19:56rappers and sat around wrapping all the
0:20:00time but by that point I understood that
0:20:02I was not that was not I was not
0:20:05basically invited to sit down it at the
0:20:09on the couch and and rhyme with
0:20:11everybody like my job at that point was
0:20:13to roll joints and not appreciatively
0:20:16but you know it could have been so much
0:20:20different to all your ok i see how maybe
0:20:23I could have been or maybe I could have
0:20:24a a decided that that was where I was
0:20:27going to pour my clear the eighties the
0:20:29Golden Age of we talked about before the
0:20:31extra guy in the band you can have a
0:20:32professor Griff like who's there to give
0:20:34you some philosophical guidance you got
0:20:37the dancing guy and Happy Mondays maybe
0:20:38Jonathan girls the joints
0:20:40yeah but i would have wanted a more
0:20:43featured role right i mean I maybe can
0:20:45roll them on stage is I like to be the
0:20:47guy at a party that rolled joints i
0:20:49really did it would give me an activity
0:20:52i could sit at the i consider the coffee
0:20:55table right in the center of the party
0:20:56right you're right there right in the
0:20:58heart of it
0:20:59yeah you've got a job and it's an
0:21:02important job anywhere between the
0:21:04Somali a magician yeah right i mean yet
0:21:07people are going to you don't have to do
0:21:09anything you want to talk you don't have
0:21:11to do anything because you're rolling
0:21:12joints but you can and if you start
0:21:16talking everybody's gonna like it's like
0:21:17H&R Block right you're going to
0:21:19everybody wants to be really busy for
0:21:22comments here
0:21:23yeah everybody wants to hear what you've
0:21:25got to say my shot at smith barney
0:21:26that's rolling me yeah mr. Barney who
0:21:29Smith Barney was that kind of wine
0:21:32cooler right
0:21:33yep yet anyway morning James so I would
0:21:35just I mean but you're also you're
0:21:37showing off your expertise to roll a
0:21:40joint is thing that requires a certain
0:21:42certain amount of
0:21:44I'm not just find a spot like to roll a
0:21:47good joint and I could roll a good joint
0:21:49everyone you get done and just sort of
0:21:52you do that thing where you tip it up so
0:21:54now the joint is pointing up in the air
0:21:56so everyone can see it you're like
0:21:58almost it is a revealing magicians
0:22:00reveal ya la la la la and then all
0:22:04everyone starts salivating they can't
0:22:06wait to get their hands on this joint
0:22:08but maybe you don't hand it to somebody
0:22:09maybe put it down on the coffee table
0:22:11maybe you know maybe you lay out three
0:22:13or four of them before you start having
0:22:15amount so that everybody can see that
0:22:17their uniform that each one you know the
0:22:19day that they're beautiful matched set
0:22:21hmm so that was the job that I really
0:22:24appointed I i pointed myself that that
0:22:28job and of course I never had the pot
0:22:30right the I didn't bring pot to the
0:22:33party
0:22:34I didn't have any money right but but
0:22:37so the person that had the pot could
0:22:39also conveyed to the room that they were
0:22:44big enough deal that they didn't need to
0:22:47sit rolling joints right they have the
0:22:49pot and so rolling the joint allowed me
0:22:53then to have some ownership over the
0:22:55weed so I didn't have to stand there
0:22:57like a goofball and be like who you
0:22:59gonna pass that over here well you're
0:23:01certainly you're adding value
0:23:02I've added value precisely it so the guy
0:23:05with the pot is like are you know I'm
0:23:08too big a deal to to be rolling joints
0:23:10that's a that's the Romans work but but
0:23:15then I even having rolled the joints i
0:23:17was entitled at least to take up in
0:23:19order to take one of those joints for
0:23:20myself
0:23:21mhm right you know you roll 5 slip one
0:23:24in your pack of cigarettes and and
0:23:28everybody feels right everybody feels
0:23:30right about it
0:23:31this is this is all going in my moochers
0:23:33Bible mmm that's a good idea when I
0:23:35finally write the Boosters Bible indeed
0:23:37as an e-book know i'm thinking it's like
0:23:40something that be in airport bookstores
0:23:42something you read on an airplane urban
0:23:44survivalist Bible like you like dr.
0:23:46Strangelove Bible like you like it's
0:23:48like a tiny little what's called the
0:23:49moochers what the moochers Bible yes
0:23:52Bible and that could be very small like
0:23:53it could slip into a wallet
0:23:55it should or or
0:23:56you certainly will ensure pocket it
0:23:58should be about the size of a pack of
0:23:59cigarettes and it should be inexpensive
0:24:02enough to replace because your friends
0:24:03probably steal from from you because
0:24:04let's be honest amateur well sure I mean
0:24:07you're probably going to try and steal
0:24:08it from the bookstore in the first place
0:24:10yep but the other the only problem I
0:24:13think is that a lot of my a lot of the
0:24:14tenants in the moochers Bible aren't
0:24:16really applicable anymore nobody smokes
0:24:20well yeah what are you gonna do but go
0:24:22walk up to somebody on the street and
0:24:23asked for a cigarette because a dollar
0:24:24each now
0:24:25yeah so yeah I mean that they've got
0:24:29really costly that's invading the vaping
0:24:31is not such a park anymore either San
0:24:33Francisco's coming down hard on the
0:24:34vapors uh you mean they're taxing vapor
0:24:37well I look at my daughter school
0:24:39there's a sign right out front says no
0:24:41smoking and yes no vaping either and
0:24:44that was a big robot cigarettes so you
0:24:45can say like look here don't do that
0:24:47don't do that
0:24:49what was the question with vaping isn't
0:24:51so much i don't think that that it's you
0:24:54know you can no longer do it on
0:24:55airplanes or whatever but more that you
0:24:57cannot you can't mooch a toke off
0:24:59somebody's baby can you it seems like a
0:25:01very personal line mucha took off
0:25:03somebody's vape I don't know the kids i
0:25:05see in our neighborhood have very
0:25:06sophisticated looking ones they look
0:25:08kinda like a magazine with remote
0:25:09control from 1977's something that you
0:25:12would see where they don't wanna the
0:25:13cantina scene in the original starting
0:25:16original Star Trek where they are where
0:25:18they listen to you have many good men
0:25:20and vaping yeah what brought about by
0:25:22little by little deal actually took a
0:25:25nap you took another fellows de Paul so
0:25:27that they have a lot of fruit flavors I
0:25:28think there's a lot of variety to the
0:25:30vaping today used to be got you know
0:25:32Marburg or camel
0:25:34well now you can have any kind of flavor
0:25:35really good mmmm fall people's menthol
0:25:39smoking is a purely defensive tactic i
0:25:42know anything about this from people i
0:25:44know you think that it's true if you
0:25:46smoke menthols people don't want to bum
0:25:47cigarettes from you but I there but
0:25:49people claim that the men fall is an
0:25:53additional thing you get addicted to
0:25:56I believe it so now you don't even want
0:25:58to smoke a normal cigarette you have
0:26:00anything in your mouth enough eventually
0:26:01gonna want their but you price your it
0:26:04if you get into mental smoking in order
0:26:06to keep people from bumming cigarettes
0:26:08it's you price yourself out of ever
0:26:11becoming a cigarette from anybody else
0:26:13so in the end what started off maybe as
0:26:16a defensive technique ends up biting you
0:26:18in the ass
0:26:19mm because you don't like to buy your
0:26:20own petard that's exactly what it is
0:26:22yeah you go to a bar near like and one
0:26:24of those and you oh it's just a Marlboro
0:26:26like I need to go dip that in the candy
0:26:28came because I can't enjoy a cigarette
0:26:32that doesn't taste like a fresh breeze
0:26:33on the bottoms cool mountain that but
0:26:37i'm i'm curious about whether and I
0:26:39maybe some of our bit vaping listeners
0:26:41will will chime in on this
0:26:44yeah but if you're hanging out around it
0:26:47standard in a circle maybe doing some
0:26:49marching and some some rapping
0:26:51everybody's presumably got their own the
0:26:56vapor cigarette right you don't take a
0:26:58token and pass it on
0:26:59it's not a bomb right so it's it's a big
0:27:03part of this is my whole identity thing
0:27:05to it when I see these kids and their
0:27:06sports where they usually other
0:27:07sunglasses on the back of her neck and
0:27:09they're walking around making vapes yeah
0:27:11baby it wasn't an energy drink
0:27:13the other thing i noticed a lot about
0:27:14vapors is they do that leg thing that
0:27:16shaky leg thing remember when you're a
0:27:18teenager and you got energy and your
0:27:19legs always in motion they seem very
0:27:21keyed up the vapors and you can really
0:27:24identify them you know that's the energy
0:27:25drink
0:27:26oh I know I mean well you know a certain
0:27:29point I don't know she can't even
0:27:30separate them the vaping the energy
0:27:32drink i don't know i don't know it feels
0:27:34like a lifestyle it feels i got like a
0:27:35whole kind of community college
0:27:37lifestyle
0:27:38yeah haha doesn't have a little bit of
0:27:40CC vibe
0:27:41well it always did but I but I'm seeing
0:27:44a lot of I'm seeing a lot of urban
0:27:46sophisticates now
0:27:48well that's not columns systems but
0:27:50urban people that I would normally that
0:27:53would normally in the past have seen
0:27:56smoking cigarettes which is a universal
0:27:58indication that you are you that you are
0:28:01cool and rock and roll right there are
0:28:04still a lot of those people actually
0:28:06smoking cigarettes burning cigarettes
0:28:09which I which i can't i can't fathom was
0:28:13walking through the cool neighborhood
0:28:14yesterday was like
0:28:15my god people are still smoking
0:28:17cigarettes they're comfortable in
0:28:19Manhattan i noticed that people still
0:28:21gonna still true now last moment and I
0:28:23was struck by how many people still
0:28:24smoke still smoking cigarettes but i'm
0:28:26not here to judge but I mean that's that
0:28:28does it that you don't see it as much
0:28:29around here for sure
0:28:30let's be honest you are judging no i'm
0:28:32not i'm judging the way people hard and
0:28:35I want to distinguish first of all I
0:28:37just want to say i don't want to talk
0:28:38about this please don't email me about
0:28:39this please don't treat me about this i
0:28:41don't want to be persuaded about vaping
0:28:42please keep it to yourself
0:28:44let me let me just criticize you yeah on
0:28:47my own please
0:28:48sure it's one thing you're right it's
0:28:49ready out mr. that's my right it's one
0:28:52thing to go out I you know and I'm going
0:28:53and I don't care but like I'm
0:28:55distinguishing between you get this is
0:28:58smoking over here this event that
0:28:59there's like you could buy the
0:29:00disposable ones that look like
0:29:01cigarettes right that's that that's
0:29:03really friendly look down the vapors
0:29:05look down on that that's real kid stuff
0:29:07I really there's their v that are
0:29:09disposable that look like cigarette yeah
0:29:10they're awesome they're not they're not
0:29:12one hitters no one hitters that look
0:29:14like cigarettes tho yes
0:29:16cool yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah super
0:29:19cool but no but they had their purpose
0:29:21and then you got the ones that are more
0:29:22like what i would call the ethernet
0:29:24wizard cigarette and that's more like
0:29:26the little one let's get playing a flute
0:29:28yeah thatthat's I think those the
0:29:31Picasso serious vapors now carry this
0:29:33thing that looks I haven't paid a lot of
0:29:35attention to it but I see them sometimes
0:29:36in the neighborhoods are unavoidable and
0:29:38it's it's a little bigger than like a
0:29:40sailor zenith remote control i would say
0:29:42it's a little bit smaller than the gyro
0:29:45mechanism you used for a remote-control
0:29:47plane is what if it's big I mean if it's
0:29:50like the size of a Walkman what i did
0:29:51when i got a big butt plug coming out of
0:29:53it you talk on to make your Papes yeah
0:29:56when i see that i always think of that
0:29:58episode of the episode of the one show
0:30:02where Frey gets the magic he gets the
0:30:07devil hands he gets the robot devil
0:30:09hands here on the double switch hands
0:30:11okay right in the devil once human hands
0:30:14and and and he offers fri though the the
0:30:18robot hands devil hands Frey gets the
0:30:21devil hands and then suddenly he can
0:30:22play the
0:30:25The Magic Flute that conjures images
0:30:28right if you have a complicated plot for
0:30:31half hour show
0:30:32well yeah but that's the thing that they
0:30:34got done making the simpsons or whatever
0:30:36then maybe get done making the simpsons
0:30:38but same people right yeah oh yeah i
0:30:41think it's the same it started out as
0:30:43the same roughish team
0:30:45yeah so I mean a lot of shots a fun show
0:30:47my smarts there anyway so he's playing
0:30:50the he's playing them the magic flute
0:30:51and it conjures up these images of him
0:30:55dancing with Leela and he wins Lila's
0:30:58heart but then at the end he doesn't he
0:31:02doesn't consummate consummate the
0:31:04relationship with Leela because that's
0:31:05basically the that would ruin the show
0:31:07the whole show would end and I thought
0:31:09that's the same and I a moment Sam Sam
0:31:11and Diane moment that's right at that
0:31:13point at that point Diane has exactly
0:31:16but anyway so with fries playing this
0:31:18crazy electric flute with his devil
0:31:21robot hands and that is what I cannot
0:31:24not see that when I see people vaping on
0:31:26the street I just feel like since I i
0:31:29think yeah I can I get you but to me
0:31:31it's almost like the way you feel
0:31:32watching people use a blackberry where
0:31:34before and even in the early days of the
0:31:36iphone a lot of people were still always
0:31:38using their BlackBerry's and they were
0:31:39talking about how much they loved using
0:31:40their blackberries but nobody i've never
0:31:42seen by look happy using a blackberry
0:31:43never get people were vaping did they
0:31:46look like they're like better no shame
0:31:48of what they're doing because the whole
0:31:50well they should be
0:31:51I mean it's real silly nothing against
0:31:53it i mean he didn't have fun but
0:31:55it'sit's does look very silly i think i
0:31:58think some of that might be that we just
0:31:59do not live in that suburban there that
0:32:02XO city that the edge of a city where
0:32:06people are influenced by the city i'm
0:32:08talking about an agent 1x herb and
0:32:10observed that you're saying you're
0:32:12saying you're at a an umbrella table
0:32:14outside the quiznos by the old starbucks
0:32:17and you're making it up
0:32:18I'm i think that as you leave this if
0:32:21you're in the center of the city and you
0:32:22are and your pants are riding low and
0:32:25your vaping and you have a white
0:32:26baseball cap on backwards people in the
0:32:29city recognize us from elsewhere but as
0:32:32you move further and further out of a
0:32:35city you reach a borderland
0:32:38where where all the cultures interact
0:32:42right and you can be out there in that
0:32:44borderland making alternative theater
0:32:47because that's because you cannot forget
0:32:49the different kind of stew
0:32:51it's the children of people who work at
0:32:53costco meeting with the children of
0:32:54people who work at sam's club and
0:32:55they're all they're all they're all
0:32:56meeting together and it's a great
0:32:57goulash cultural goulash
0:32:59well yeah I mean especially now that
0:33:01cities are too expensive to live in
0:33:02right we're seeing we're seeing the
0:33:04receiving the downtown culture makers
0:33:07moving out as the exam billion children
0:33:13characters move in and you get into this
0:33:17weird realm where people are vaping
0:33:20ironically and right next to people who
0:33:23are vaping very earnestly and you go at
0:33:27the ice vapors right I can't tell the
0:33:29one from the other now I mean there are
0:33:31people who've a parent it's very cool
0:33:33they make it look cool and it's similar
0:33:34to communicate to learn about the word
0:33:36you want
0:33:38well what is cool anymore Merlin is
0:33:40Miles Davis you can see miles davis
0:33:41doing that I think that the next Miles
0:33:45Davis is right now i'll probably says
0:33:49sixteen-year-old vapor Miles Davis to
0:33:51point out well probably now for point
0:33:54out for the out like Miles Davis ex was
0:33:57a pretty good must have snacks that's
0:33:58pretty good yeah i'm sure it was what I
0:34:00think it would just be miles X minus X
0:34:03yeah but yeah I think I think that there
0:34:05i think vaping is here to stay and I
0:34:07think it only looks ridiculous to us but
0:34:10in a very short amount of time it will
0:34:11just be as natural to to the young
0:34:14people as anything much more natural
0:34:16than cigarettes cigarettes are gonna
0:34:17look like some elder make that 19 know
0:34:21they're gonna make the fifties look like
0:34:22this
0:34:23yeah exactly well i'm also i agree with
0:34:26you about people having to move out the
0:34:28city's I'm interested in what happens
0:34:29within the next what probably two years
0:34:31for everybody cool is going to live
0:34:33outside the city everybody lives in the
0:34:35city is going to be a douchebag who's
0:34:36making makes apps what's what's the
0:34:38opposite of a Bridge and Tunnel crowd
0:34:40right but what if we get to where people
0:34:42are going they're going out to the
0:34:43exurbs because that's where the good
0:34:45skate ramps and of apes are you know
0:34:47saying yeah I feel like it will continue
0:34:49to be called bridge-and-tunnel little
0:34:51bit
0:34:51to be bridgend people taking bridges and
0:34:53tunnels to get out of the downtown core
0:34:55rather than go into it it's a different
0:34:58it's the whole it's all white flight
0:35:00premise but not in Reverse but sort of
0:35:05in Reverse like fleeing not not fleeing
0:35:09from the decline of the inner city
0:35:12because it has become a like dangerous
0:35:16and uh and decaying but flight leaving
0:35:19from the inner city because it's
0:35:21intolerable tolerably smug man that's
0:35:26that's that's going to get trend piece
0:35:28that's gonna be a trend piece in the
0:35:29next couple years I mean already already
0:35:31see it like in our local paper coom
0:35:33website if there's already like there's
0:35:35a huge amount of the front page that
0:35:36goes to come here buddy what somebody is
0:35:38selling this teardown for ya
0:35:40and then there's the of course the
0:35:41component piece of that is but if you
0:35:44move to you know Dumbledore pleasanton
0:35:46you can get a 6,000 acre ranch for nine
0:35:50dollars
0:35:50yea Pleasant and was intent on the part
0:35:52I think you know I think that that
0:35:55honestly right the the last 20 years has
0:35:58has seen the burbs
0:36:01let's call it the last 30 years saw all
0:36:05this you know these mega mansions or
0:36:07Mick mansions but they're McMansions
0:36:10kind of gross overly large houses with
0:36:13three-story atrium and then that the
0:36:15tria the cheaper knockoff version that
0:36:18mention Kings mansion King come and
0:36:22they're always intervention chef in
0:36:24years
0:36:24I you know I I don't have a TV you know
0:36:27what a butt out there in these like
0:36:29manicured neighborhoods with these over
0:36:33large homes and now nobody wants to live
0:36:36in them anymore but i think we're going
0:36:39to see an exodus of people from the city
0:36:42who will move out there and find that
0:36:45that they can get these huge huge homes
0:36:49look like seven beds super cheap where
0:36:53the weather cell they sell at way under
0:36:55market value to get out
0:36:56yeah it makes it available goes on the
0:36:58market oh that's super interesting and
0:37:00then these neighborhoods are suddenly
0:37:01going to become vibrant places because
0:37:03these homes are going to have like
0:37:05three different families living and
0:37:07regeneration of different families it's
0:37:09gonna become the equivalent of I mean
0:37:11that would be so great you can have
0:37:13three different families living in one
0:37:15of these giant giant houses they're just
0:37:16they're really using the pool they don't
0:37:17have a pool it's think clean there's
0:37:19like 60 kids in the pool
0:37:20that's right and maybe it's like an
0:37:22ad-hoc apartment maybe 9 a-9 like a like
0:37:27a scream poets will all move into
0:37:30Lauren's mega-mansion out in the suburbs
0:37:33and and you know they're gonna start
0:37:36seeing like interesting sculptures
0:37:38appear in the yard
0:37:39I mean those those neighborhoods could
0:37:41are ripe to be colonized by uh by this
0:37:45like dramatic creative class that can no
0:37:47longer make make a theater in warehouses
0:37:50huh
0:37:51so I'm excited about that and I wonder I
0:37:55wonder I mean maybe there will be life
0:37:57on those streets maybe they will
0:37:58suddenly be kids riding their writing
0:38:01there a unicycle or whatever kids ride a
0:38:04get a recumbent bike or a hotter board
0:38:07yeah it'll be like little it will
0:38:09literally make the 2020 these look at
0:38:12look like the fifties em the 2020s are
0:38:16going to make the 2010 look like
0:38:20nineteen nineties and early nineteen
0:38:23nineties are going to make the 2020s
0:38:25look like the fifties manslaughter
0:38:27Collins so I mean at you know what as as
0:38:30the parents of of young kids we might
0:38:32start to think about like hey let's go
0:38:35out there by one of those as mega
0:38:37mansions that has like two gold lions on
0:38:39the steps
0:38:40yeah and you know move in and then
0:38:43suddenly the master you've got a master
0:38:44bedroom
0:38:45that's like 1,500 square feet and your
0:38:49kid has a as their own bedroom but also
0:38:51their own den ah and you can rollerskate
0:38:54in the living room you can make one of
0:38:55the rooms into just like a jungle
0:38:57playroom jungle playroom you could hire
0:38:59a local maker somebody with a hot glue
0:39:01down a book they could come out and they
0:39:02can make a jungle inside one of the
0:39:04rooms the kids could plan here's what
0:39:05I'm thinking I'm thinking let's let you
0:39:08taking internet you buy a mansion a
0:39:10former you know mansion king and then
0:39:12you you take it out however you want and
0:39:14then and you buy a google bus
0:39:17and that way now you got a cheap way
0:39:19easy way to get people in and out of the
0:39:21city you can still go to the city if you
0:39:23need baby supplies or work and it's a
0:39:26lot easier than have known a bunch of
0:39:27cars and you know something that
0:39:28sculpture on the line i think we don't
0:39:30want cars on one
0:39:31no that's true see but whatever cars are
0:39:34going to Waverly I know I know but 11
0:39:36google but especially you know you can
0:39:38try grease or or as son
0:39:41mhm I don't know I'm just saying the
0:39:42economies of scale here everybody kicks
0:39:44in a little bit you could by mentioning
0:39:46pretty pretty cheap probably now you
0:39:48you've got your finger on the pulse of
0:39:49e-commerce and entrepreneurship think I
0:39:53do yeah so tell me are we closer to an
0:39:57omen we're going to get a lot of letters
0:39:58about this from Johnson cuza hoo-ha but
0:40:02uh are we closer now to the paperless
0:40:05office are we closer to people just
0:40:08working from home or do people continue
0:40:11to need to come into the city where they
0:40:14have free fruit loops in a giant fruit
0:40:18loop dispenser as one of the perks of
0:40:20their open plan office beanbag chair
0:40:23office
0:40:23mhm people going to continue to come in
0:40:26for the fruit loops and the beanbag
0:40:27chairs or are the engineers one day
0:40:30going to completely rebell and say
0:40:33listen has an engineer I no longer need
0:40:35to ever wear pants again
0:40:37yeah and i'm just going to code from the
0:40:40enormous beanbag sex chair that is the
0:40:43only item of furniture in mind in the
0:40:45entire mega-mansion and I get the
0:40:47Lamborghini poster lamborghini poster
0:40:49and the and the enormous beanbag chair
0:40:51and they're just in there just coding
0:40:54they've got like six screens they get
0:40:57their own fruit loops dispenser nice
0:40:59they never need to come into the city at
0:41:01all it are we closer to that or is there
0:41:04it is there something about that the is
0:41:08there something about the proximity to
0:41:09one another the standup desks and the
0:41:13and the conference rooms that make going
0:41:17into San Francisco necessary for for for
0:41:20commerce the honest answer the funny
0:41:22answer
0:41:23I want the honest answer it has existed
0:41:27already for a long time there's a lot of
0:41:28people that there are a lot of companies
0:41:30that when they started
0:41:32that's how they started they started
0:41:33with people working remotely one of the
0:41:34big problems with trying to reduce all
0:41:36this revolutionary bullshit in the
0:41:37company's is that it works against the
0:41:39principles upon which the company was
0:41:41started and it works directly at odds
0:41:44with the culture that's kind of it's
0:41:46been the nation culture since the play
0:41:47started you know what I mean
0:41:49so it's like it it's almost like think
0:41:51of a family like a passive-aggressive
0:41:53western family and Midwestern family who
0:41:56likes a movie where the family likes
0:41:58each other it's ok for now I'm walking
0:41:59to like each other as well that's easier
0:42:01said than done because this is the way
0:42:03we have always acted it's hard to just
0:42:04you don't get to hit a reset button and
0:42:07terraforming family right so i think
0:42:08that's one so on the one hand I think it
0:42:11always has existed for some companies i
0:42:13mean i i've worked with companies where
0:42:15everybody's on contract and all but like
0:42:16three people work remotely and so what
0:42:19then is doing the other part of that is
0:42:21that I think this is the sea dance with
0:42:24a funny answer switch again and also
0:42:25people like to think there's a certain
0:42:29way of managing only managing where it's
0:42:32definitely easier to have everybody in
0:42:33the room but honestly it's also
0:42:34sometimes easier to collaborate with
0:42:36people in a room even or especially with
0:42:37things like engineers you get a lot more
0:42:39accomplished when you can be
0:42:40face-to-face with somebody so this idea
0:42:43ok let's ok let's think about this but I
0:42:46mean so there's still much more to that
0:42:47you can still have things we can still
0:42:48like have the occasional like weekly
0:42:50meeting and stand up and everybody's
0:42:51trying different things and then there's
0:42:53nobody who says I want nobody anymore he
0:42:55says I want the kind of job i think my
0:42:57grandparents had no I don't want a job
0:42:59we have to go and likes in a big
0:43:00building with artificial light and
0:43:02windows that don't open and just and and
0:43:04sit around and do this point nobody
0:43:06wants that it's just that there isn't
0:43:07any easy way to say that what what is if
0:43:10you don't want that then what do you
0:43:11want because this complexity that's what
0:43:13I'm saying that like my what I'm trying
0:43:14to imagine is let's let's let's picture
0:43:18one of these exurbs one of these
0:43:21McMansion villages and let's say that it
0:43:25becomes a colony right where everyone
0:43:28who lives in that neighborhood is an
0:43:29engineer so they're all working offshore
0:43:33four different one second it's literally
0:43:35a village village that shoemaker you got
0:43:38barber you got a-you got am working till
0:43:41you got all these people and they work
0:43:42together and with each other you're
0:43:44saying here is the same thing is
0:43:46literally a village just over here you
0:43:47got a programmer over here you gotta my
0:43:49single person you get a full stack
0:43:50person you're right
0:43:52XHTML HTML exactly this guy over here is
0:43:56doing ironic 8-bit animations for people
0:43:59who decided that the cool websites are
0:44:02throwback websites and then I think a
0:44:04lot of those McMansion neighborhoods in
0:44:07the in it as they were building them
0:44:08they were trying to create trying to
0:44:11falsely to create a feeling of community
0:44:13and so they would actually build like
0:44:15community centers where they met that
0:44:19had barbecues and stuff that where they
0:44:21imagine the people would congregate for
0:44:23that feeling of togetherness completely
0:44:26failing to understand that that the
0:44:27premise of constructing those whole
0:44:29neighborhood's was that no one wanted to
0:44:31interact with each other at all you
0:44:33would park your lexus 300 in the in the
0:44:36garage
0:44:37you're not even want to get out of your
0:44:39car outside you don't want to get into
0:44:41the garage closed the garage door and
0:44:42then get out
0:44:43that's right so but now we're picturing
0:44:45a colony of Engineers all living
0:44:48together and they do they do use the the
0:44:52communal space as an office communal
0:44:54office and a communal like gathering
0:44:57point where they're sharing ideas
0:44:58they're they're you know they're showing
0:45:01their stuff and their kids are all
0:45:03around them and then all of a sudden the
0:45:05google bus only comes the google bus
0:45:07comes every day because that's the
0:45:09amazon prime bus now which comes and
0:45:13delivers all the groceries and all the
0:45:14supplies that everybody is all that's so
0:45:17efficient
0:45:18that's right before different services
0:45:19that you know kind of trickling in
0:45:21throughout the day you do a big you do
0:45:22it's like it's like escape from new york
0:45:24the helicopter comes and drop supplies
0:45:26yeah it's a semi still our escape from
0:45:28new york john that's the thing it
0:45:30becomes not a walled city because if we
0:45:32want to come it's open right but you
0:45:34would never need to leave your
0:45:36neighborhood and it could become like a
0:45:37think tank right this would you that it
0:45:40would be like it would be like in the
0:45:42original movie Tron where the bit the
0:45:44beam of light of the master control
0:45:46program
0:45:46is beaming up out of these neighborhoods
0:45:49and all the engineers that to all the
0:45:51engineering for the entire city of San
0:45:53Francisco are just living together and
0:45:56then you've got your alternative theater
0:45:57neighborhood over here you've got your
0:45:59entrepreneur neighborhood where the
0:46:02entrepreneurs who are self-conscious
0:46:03about their money want to live in the
0:46:06kind of McMansion house that maybe they
0:46:10once upon a time would have lived in as
0:46:12a serious mansion house
0:46:13yeah now that the mansion houses are are
0:46:16seen as like middle-class collective
0:46:19homes they actually want to move into
0:46:21them as a way of just of camouflaging
0:46:23their wealth but you'll want to be
0:46:25around because you're gonna Ryan ironic
0:46:27mansion you know you may want to keep
0:46:30going around ironically let's call it a
0:46:31mac mansion it's not a McMansion anymore
0:46:34its a Mac mansion that's right huh
0:46:38so the entrepreneurs actually still have
0:46:40their 8,000 square-foot warehouse in San
0:46:44Francisco but now they realize that
0:46:46their that they have to slum out in the
0:46:49suburbs where all the action is it
0:46:51mostly good like I saw this thing
0:46:52somebody finally posted this thing of
0:46:54the day it's this way of it's like a pod
0:46:55you can get from it for your backyard
0:46:57for a home office actually super cool
0:46:59its kind of thing you'd see like that up
0:47:01you know in the nineteen seventies it's
0:47:03a very comfortable like mostly glass
0:47:06thing that can just get dropped in your
0:47:08backyard and you can do your business
0:47:09right in the backyard
0:47:10I can see people living I think this is
0:47:11a popular trend right now is that what
0:47:13he called the micro house or whatever
0:47:14the meetinghouse Michael many of them
0:47:16yeah your micro mini house would be
0:47:17likes a bunk bed and gas stove and about
0:47:20you get to find this stuff gets a
0:47:21horizontal slots slots you know so you
0:47:23can well it out a little bit you know so
0:47:25so no not only primary place you would
0:47:27live in the mac mansion or the McMansion
0:47:29you would never actually a convention
0:47:30right and then we have all the micro pod
0:47:32pods in the so they start off in the
0:47:36backyard but then people realize what
0:47:38are we hiding from this is our community
0:47:41so then the pod start start popping up
0:47:43in people's front yards and then odds
0:47:46than the pods become a separate network
0:47:49a separate like network of of a like a
0:47:54like another another connective layer of
0:47:58brain
0:47:59that's that's within the mac mansions
0:48:02and then the first one shows up inside a
0:48:06mac mansion in the atrium in the front
0:48:09hall and you can put them in a circle it
0:48:11will be recalled the opposite of a panic
0:48:14on you can have a non opticon you have
0:48:16all the facing toward the middle of the
0:48:17village where the campfire is you can
0:48:19have all the little glass facing in the
0:48:21same direction right well then it
0:48:23becomes one of those mirrors probably
0:48:24opticon the the mirrored a solar-powered
0:48:27energy collector who where they're all
0:48:30arranged in a circle and they're
0:48:31reflecting the sunlight or the brain
0:48:34waves to a central hub to the NCP to the
0:48:37mCP over so it's generating ideas it's
0:48:39generating power it's probably generated
0:48:42and with maybe that's almost a limited
0:48:46bandwidth at this point huh
0:48:48so and this is we're talking about
0:48:49mansions now who I feel like this is the
0:48:53trend this is the way it's going because
0:48:55at that point
0:48:56yeah you like the wide-open space you
0:48:58like the boulevards you like the the
0:49:00flight uniformly tree-lined streets
0:49:03there's not as much there's not as much
0:49:06to go awry
0:49:08unfortunately those houses are mostly
0:49:10stapled and glued together so i don't
0:49:12think they're going to last forever
0:49:14that's ok that's ok this is a new
0:49:15generation John we really want to bring
0:49:17our old thinking they don't season
0:49:18Colonial Williamsburg right people who
0:49:21have no belongings and Spotify and they
0:49:24maybe have a laptop so as the houses as
0:49:27new there in the clouds on these people
0:49:29in the clouds they are so they're living
0:49:30in the cloud live in the cloud but i
0:49:31think there's going to be a magic moment
0:49:33where these homes that are made out of
0:49:35pressed particle of substances there
0:49:39right now they're off-gassing right
0:49:40that's the phrase they are off-gassing
0:49:42meaning that all of the all the chemical
0:49:44glues that are holding the homes
0:49:45together are still gassing they're still
0:49:48turning to gas and and poisoning you and
0:49:52your children but there'll be a moment
0:49:54where they stop gassing because they've
0:49:56get off gastall the gas and then they
0:49:59start absorbing moisture right those
0:50:02surf those those are building components
0:50:04are going to start swelling they're
0:50:06going to steal all your breath and all
0:50:07of your perspiration cici yes
0:50:10yes there's a lot of moisture in the
0:50:11home right so there's going to be a
0:50:13perfect moment between the off-gassing
0:50:16and when the houses start to swell with
0:50:19perspiration where they're in stasis
0:50:21right there they're like it's the pits
0:50:24they're perfect
0:50:26it's the perfect state and that will be
0:50:29the moment they know for whatever two
0:50:31years that period is that will be when
0:50:33to go in there colonize those spaces ok
0:50:35use them to generate entrepreneurship
0:50:38and then a and then when the building
0:50:41start to fall down when the moss the
0:50:42black mold starts to form the corners
0:50:45maybe you have a like a Detroit style
0:50:47hell night we just one night you just
0:50:50take your beanbag chairs you you take
0:50:52your Lamborghini posters you put them
0:50:54all on a on amazon bus
0:50:56yeah you burn the entire neighborhood
0:50:58damn you can like the perch and you get
0:51:00it's like it's like a Clemenza says
0:51:02right you can have a war every few years
0:51:04that's right give it a black mold and
0:51:05then you can just extrude a new house
0:51:07again terraforming you can just tell you
0:51:08get you extrude a new house where the
0:51:10focus by then I think your point though
0:51:12by the time you get rid of the deadly
0:51:13part or the poison is part of the of the
0:51:15particle board you're also introducing a
0:51:17problem the performance characteristics
0:51:18are already degrading to get maybe maybe
0:51:20two years who knows how much the gas was
0:51:23holding the whole thing together
0:51:24yeah and then then you're like the end
0:51:26of a road warrior two electric boogaloo
0:51:29where you all get into a motley caravan
0:51:33of google buses and electric cars and
0:51:37you're towing your little pods you're
0:51:39gonna bang bang chitty bang me and you
0:51:44head off and the homunculus is there man
0:51:48give us the oil i head off into the
0:51:52desert to create you're looking for the
0:51:54next utopia next mansions mm we can
0:52:00dream can't we feel like this is the way
0:52:02and i just want to live long enough to
0:52:03see this happen
0:52:04yeah because at this point you know
0:52:06we're both going to be the old crotchety
0:52:09geezer with the with the Edit forget
0:52:11what kind of hat he was wearing was a as
0:52:13like Napoleon hat or something
0:52:16well just max thing I think it's a
0:52:19madman
0:52:19yeah but you know also to refer to your
0:52:22program you like we could also just be
0:52:23ahead and charge at that point you know
0:52:26I mean we can see what you're saying
0:52:26yeah arguing with Richard Nixon on the
0:52:29shelf somewhere
0:52:30yeah that's funny bit I don't want to
0:52:32you you seem you seem a little bit
0:52:34dismissive of the show with fry and
0:52:37Leela I like it a lot it's been banned
0:52:39from the house
0:52:40um we do it was just a little bit too
0:52:43much
0:52:44I you know inside words and definitions
0:52:48it gets a little saucy and starvation in
0:52:51a fit of pique my wife bandit I see my
0:52:54daughter was extremely into it though
0:52:56I'm still we still have we know we keep
0:52:58a long list of about sixty pet names we
0:53:00keep keep around she still really want
0:53:02to name something Lord nibbler Lords a
0:53:03blur is pretty cute
0:53:05sure he's the little nipper that eats
0:53:06everything right he's adorable and his
0:53:08poop is not what runs the ship all
0:53:10rights right these little infinitely
0:53:12dense poops could be i won that show
0:53:14came out I was not interested in it at
0:53:16all but then I saw it in reruns
0:53:18syndication they call it and I and I and
0:53:22I night and I did like it for for
0:53:24several years and then I didn't have a
0:53:26TV anymore it's a great hotel rooms show
0:53:28that's right it's one of those ones like
0:53:30yeah there's certain kinds of shows i
0:53:32would never once had never watched but I
0:53:34wouldn't make make special appointment
0:53:36viewing time for but like if it's on a
0:53:37hotel room it's like it's really good
0:53:39it's not a thing that you're gonna get
0:53:40as you're scrolling through netflix and
0:53:43seeing 1 million movies that you never
0:53:46knew existed and never will watch you'll
0:53:49see the the fry and Leela show and you
0:53:52say oh isn't that good that's all your
0:53:54likes and it seemed it strikes you as a
0:53:56positive but you're not gonna watch it
0:53:59either like the whole point of Netflix's
0:54:01to scroll and scroll and scroll
0:54:03endlessly and never watch anything
0:54:05yeah and so they just dumped some new
0:54:07stuff in the last few days it's kind of
0:54:08overwhelming you know what I learned of
0:54:09this is true but a couple people told me
0:54:11this
0:54:11he said you have the netflix well I did
0:54:14get familiar with the what it what it is
0:54:17yeah but I was just going to tell a very
0:54:18short story where I kind of got him I
0:54:20got a little bit of a millennial break
0:54:22up the other day when i logged onto
0:54:23Netflix
0:54:24and i was and i met my password has been
0:54:27removed
0:54:28well so well because it wasn't my
0:54:30netflix so I got millennia I get the
0:54:33Millennial breakup
0:54:34oh I'm sorry that you're disinvited to
0:54:38use my netflix for free
0:54:40oh the Millennial pop ya know you got
0:54:44tonight
0:54:45oh yeah somebody boyce you so you turn
0:54:49your computer like I think i'm gonna
0:54:50watch days of the Condor again for the
0:54:5240th time it you get that netflix a
0:54:55screen that's like would you like to
0:54:57join netflix yeah like what what what no
0:55:00no no you put your put your what had
0:55:03waited for the last several years been
0:55:05your password with ya or password with
0:55:07someone else's of a sudden it doesn't
0:55:09work that netflix returns zero results
0:55:11at 4044 a forehand and you're like oh
0:55:15fuck i've been i'm sorry it's like you
0:55:18know no more netflix and chill for me
0:55:20mhm but so I do remember a day those
0:55:23halcyon days when when
0:55:27yeah you could scroll through days and
0:55:29days but you were about to say something
0:55:30about that will not know I feel I feel I
0:55:32can you know show you something
0:55:34oh you like you're rubbing in here well
0:55:36you know i just want to mention is that
0:55:37somebody told me this factoid which is
0:55:40an interesting empirically interesting
0:55:41factoid but I'm finding it immensely
0:55:43interesting I kind of can't stop
0:55:44thinking about it i was saying that
0:55:46somebody how am I i was introduced this
0:55:49guy english comedian as it called Stuart
0:55:52Lee and certainly is a has in the past
0:55:56like two months become like my I'm
0:55:59obsessed with this guy i just i want i
0:56:00want to see everything this guy's ever
0:56:02done and it all started with turning on
0:56:04the netflix and I flip pass this thing
0:56:07I've never seen and never heard of it
0:56:08says stuart least comedy vehicle and you
0:56:10know a little stars stars work right
0:56:12ya got the red stars you know what
0:56:13she'll it's nice to see three stars for
0:56:15starting this is really good
0:56:17this thing is just a sliver shy of five
0:56:20stars like wow it's it's a you know this
0:56:23sounds like the kind of thing I would
0:56:24like if the average rating for this is
0:56:26just under our stars I should watch this
0:56:29yeah and I didn't I loved it and then I
0:56:31don't know this is true and I'm sure
0:56:32I'll hear about it now I'm reliably
0:56:34informed that that is
0:56:36their estimation of now you would give
0:56:39it all right the algorithm knows you
0:56:41know that sounds pretty straightforward
0:56:43and maybe it is but for some reason I
0:56:45kind of can't stop thinking about it
0:56:46right because it's infinitely
0:56:48fascinating to me like how they're
0:56:50guessing and like so then i raided and
0:56:52that's going to change future things but
0:56:54they don't tell you that it doesn't say
0:56:55you know it used to be back in the day
0:56:58even back in the DVD days it would say
0:57:00like okay four stars or like when they
0:57:02say that we hear stuff we think you'll
0:57:04like it would even show you what they
0:57:05think you would read it but I don't know
0:57:07what the if it is true that the change
0:57:09that over the very interesting
0:57:11technology somebody is watching you
0:57:13learn a duty and you get no privacy sue
0:57:16em well this is the thing there is
0:57:20we've talked about this before but it's
0:57:22becoming more and more to all the time
0:57:23there is no empirical truth anymore
0:57:25Merlin there are right there are no
0:57:274-stars they told us in the eighties
0:57:29they just didn't have a proof for it
0:57:30there's no empirical truth there is only
0:57:32conditional subjective truth and so
0:57:35there four stars doesn't exist there's
0:57:38only now four stars for you and I think
0:57:42Yelp is the last place where four stars
0:57:45yelp and pitchfork are the last place
0:57:47where four stars are are still like some
0:57:50kind of I guess Yelp is four stars that
0:57:52are collected from from 10,000 people
0:57:56that you would not like to be stuck on
0:57:58an elevator with and pitchfork is still
0:58:01some dumb kids in a room telling you
0:58:03what things are good but everything else
0:58:06works i don't know i don't read too much
0:58:07anymore bit around the time of the
0:58:08Travis Morrison debacle it really
0:58:11started to feel like it's somebody who
0:58:12really wants to impress their older
0:58:13brother
0:58:14yeah even though they didn't really
0:58:15listen to the album i had a travis
0:58:17moore's in conversation the other day
0:58:18thousands heartbreak
0:58:19well it was but will that still sticks
0:58:21in the crop there in seattle doesn't
0:58:23well yeah but now I feel like Travis
0:58:26Morrison's Travis Stan record the famous
0:58:290.0 from pitchfork is becoming a thing
0:58:33like where were you when Kennedy was
0:58:34killed among a certain group of
0:58:38people who followed in Iraq religiously
0:58:40and and so that it's it's it's a thing
0:58:44where like how how many people were at
0:58:47the velvet underground concert in 1966
0:58:51not very many people but then over the
0:58:53years the people that claim to have been
0:58:56there
0:58:56yeah grow and grow until it it would
0:58:59have been a little bit of 50,000 person
0:59:01concert and I think only thousand people
0:59:03have about the first album but they all
0:59:05miss Chloe O'Brian know that's right
0:59:07exactly that's exactly what i was trying
0:59:09to say buddy the velvet underground is
0:59:12gonna make the nineteen sixties look
0:59:15like the nineteen-thirties well that's
0:59:17right that's except the
0:59:18nineteen-thirties are going to make the
0:59:20velvet underground look likes stan
0:59:23kenton so in the sense in the sense of
0:59:28the pitchfork angle with Travis Morrison
0:59:30angle it's become more and more now I'm
0:59:33meeting stranger
0:59:35this is the thing women when Travis tan
0:59:36came out the number of people that were
0:59:39directly affected by that rating started
0:59:43at Travis himself emanated out to the
0:59:46National to his label mates right we're
0:59:49putting out that album and counting on
0:59:51it to to be transformative and then to
0:59:54all the fans of the dismemberment plan
0:59:57and all of the you know the larger
0:59:59circle of
0:59:59circle of
1:00:00people who were you actually bought and
1:00:03listened to that record what when where
1:00:04and what travis moore's and
1:00:05dismemberment plan were like one of
1:00:07those rare bands where like they were
1:00:10really good and they were critically
1:00:13acclaimed whatever and everybody liked
1:00:15them and people seem pretty cool that he
1:00:17was one of those like it was one of
1:00:18those like I don't know like Grand Slam
1:00:22kind of things and when that came along
1:00:23it was like in New York 911 the drummer
1:00:25war fingerless gloves there were a lot
1:00:27of things about them that stood out
1:00:28anywhere dance people at Dancing the
1:00:31shows they play dance music dance their
1:00:34shells were so crazy but now I'm meeting
1:00:37people in airports that are using Travis
1:00:41tan as their calling card like oh you
1:00:45know
1:00:46hey nice to meet you like this though
1:00:48they'll be talking to me right and
1:00:49they're like I know who you are you're
1:00:52John Roderick and Travis tan am i right
1:00:58and then I'll be like what are we
1:00:59talking about and they're like you know
1:01:00Travis tan like I'm on your side I'm on
1:01:04your team because i also thought that
1:01:08that was a tragedy and it's like whoa
1:01:11I'm having this conversation more and
1:01:13more often now and I feel like I feel
1:01:17like it is becoming emblematic of a time
1:01:20of a moment where the critics who
1:01:25formerly were our friends are now our
1:01:27enemies and and locating us in a time
1:01:33and space 9 2006 or whatever like it's
1:01:37it's it's becoming the it's becoming the
1:01:40velvet underground of our time
1:01:41Wow Travis stan is the indie rock record
1:01:44that is going to make the sixties look
1:01:46like the 20 so I so I don't know what to
1:01:50make of that right arms but but you
1:01:54cannot you cannot pick your cultural
1:01:56markers in real time it only happens I
1:02:00think retro actively there are a lot of
1:02:03things where you thought oh this is the
1:02:06thing that's going to be remembered
1:02:07right this is the rilo kiley album
1:02:09that's gonna that's the temple that's
1:02:10holding up this whole era
1:02:12yeah then it turns out know it's the
1:02:14it's travis stands the temple so huh
1:02:18don't put that in your pipe and smoke it
1:02:20well I think about that your baby put on
1:02:22your paper due on you do for you forgive
1:02:25him for your chili Travis you know
1:02:28Travis is a magical creature that he had
1:02:31a lot of your chili right he just didn't
1:02:32answer his bandmates oh right got the
1:02:35big cats eating some chili yeah and I
1:02:36think what I think the Travis's magical
1:02:39feature was that he came in and he was
1:02:40like you know to to my bandmates we are
1:02:45here in the land of plenty go ahead and
1:02:46forage for food once again give us the
1:02:53oil do not become addicted to can chill
1:02:56and so the so and then he just traipse
1:03:01off into the garden t dandelions or
1:03:03whatever it was that he was doing it was
1:03:05that my protest was that these bandmates
1:03:07who had never acknowledged right they
1:03:10had never even nodded at me or looked at
1:03:12me now suddenly we're going through my
1:03:15cupboards and like look I found a can of
1:03:16of the of sliced pineapple and I'm like
1:03:20hold on you gotta do you know I'm here
1:03:23right yeah you at least say hi to me as
1:03:25you want as you troop into my house
1:03:27before you're going through my like in
1:03:30my office
1:03:31Merlin there is a space there's a space
1:03:33in my office
1:03:34don't so there's a guy on my floor that
1:03:37had a big photo studio and you know and
1:03:41then legitimately making making some
1:03:44form of art even if its commercial
1:03:45photography right he's using it as an
1:03:47artistic space and then at a certain
1:03:49point he got the Entrepreneurship bug
1:03:51and he decided that he was going to
1:03:54expand his operation to making herbal
1:03:56teas
1:03:57hmm and there's a space on our floor
1:04:00that was available and this guy had a
1:04:02very large Basin he obviously was
1:04:03well-funded either by his by the the
1:04:06profits of his own output or maybe he
1:04:09was funded offshore maybe some angel
1:04:11investors or some venture capitalists
1:04:14said or his parents had funded his
1:04:16operation but so he took over one of
1:04:18these spaces and started making herbal
1:04:20teas there
1:04:21wow so all of a sudden on the floor of
1:04:24the place where everyone
1:04:26else is working in caustics there is
1:04:28this constant sort of sickly sweet smell
1:04:31of teas being manufactured and I don't
1:04:35know how that's all going down but but
1:04:37then not only are they
1:04:40exporting these dry tease but they are
1:04:44making wet t in there and putting them
1:04:47in giant t canvas this is up to code
1:04:51I don't know i don't think you can be in
1:04:53a building full of podcasting and
1:04:54caustics and start making herbal teas I
1:04:56don't want to be didactic but I don't
1:04:58think that's that's not cool
1:04:59no it's not i don't think it is it
1:05:01doesn't seem hygienic well or whatever I
1:05:03mean there's a lot of things about this
1:05:05story I'm about to tell that don't seem
1:05:07hygienic but they are there they're
1:05:09taking these giant sort of
1:05:11torpedo-shaped canisters of wet t and
1:05:17they're slapping them down the elevator
1:05:20into i kid you not a former google bus
1:05:24like they have three vehicles they have
1:05:26a former google bus they have a fedex
1:05:29truck where they've stripped all the
1:05:31they stripped all the riding off of you
1:05:34can still see the shadow and then they
1:05:36have like a they have a commuter bus
1:05:38like an airport commuter bus and they're
1:05:40filling these things up with these teas
1:05:42and these buses are taking a look at
1:05:44parking spots fill them up with these
1:05:46teas and off they go
1:05:48I don't know why don't know who buys who
1:05:50has a party where they're like let's get
1:05:52three or four canisters of wet p in here
1:05:54uh-huh that are different her ballot
1:05:56ease and it's like I don't know what
1:05:59this business is but any uh anyway all
1:06:01of a sudden the is like it and like
1:06:03let's say it sits on the one hand it
1:06:05does seem kinda like a front but that's
1:06:06a lot of work for a front they must have
1:06:08somebody who was sweaty somebody's out
1:06:11there drinking wet team and we got a
1:06:12live one
1:06:13yeah it might be all these places that
1:06:15are that have like fruit loops in a
1:06:16giant hopper and then also wet tease em
1:06:20but so this place then started to employ
1:06:24people because they're doing a booming
1:06:27business here and so they're hiring
1:06:30people now these are this is the next
1:06:32level the next next layer of people that
1:06:37are in and out of my art building
1:06:39these are not artists or if they are
1:06:42artists they call themselves t artists
1:06:44but they are just people working at the
1:06:48tea plant and they are universally in
1:06:55their twenties they have their thin
1:06:59people and they have man buns my god so
1:07:04there's five or six guys with man buns
1:07:07all of a sudden shrimping t in this
1:07:10place and to the man they do not look at
1:07:14you when they pass you in the hall
1:07:16oh that's weird yeah yeah this sounds
1:07:20like what it sounds like Hydra or
1:07:23something it's like it's kinda like
1:07:24hipster Hydra there's something very
1:07:26very uncool about ya know that doesn't
1:07:28seem right
1:07:29this is a building this is what happened
1:07:31to saying to get whatever happened to
1:07:32the nod nod
1:07:34whatever happened to the not on the same
1:07:35you gotta sit I don't like talking to
1:07:36people and whatever whatever happens
1:07:38just acknowledging I don't think I'm a
1:07:40big acknowledge her i believe in
1:07:42acknowledging got to acknowledge its a
1:07:44millisecond of eye contact not enough to
1:07:46communicate anything except hello ICU
1:07:48and then not froze cops man buns
1:07:51whatever it is come on people give me
1:07:53the nod got to get the knot and this
1:07:55building is characterized by long long
1:07:57hallways right so you come out of the
1:07:59bathroom
1:07:59no that's my nightmare walking down this
1:08:01long hallway and here comes a man button
1:08:04pushing a fucking cart full of wet t and
1:08:07here and i'm looking at the entire time
1:08:09like you acknowledge me son of a bitch
1:08:12and so I've started as they're walking
1:08:14as they as they get right next to me is
1:08:16really thin guys with man buns
1:08:19I'm like Hello and you know like not so
1:08:24loud that it's super aggressive like not
1:08:26hello like Hello it but but with no
1:08:30advance warning just like right when
1:08:33they are one foot from it's happened
1:08:35enough that that's a reference it refers
1:08:38to how they don't do it yeah I'm fucking
1:08:39mad at them now i'm at the whole
1:08:41operating mine is im- great thanks how
1:08:43are you
1:08:44haha right right exactly and i'm one
1:08:49step from that like you know nice of you
1:08:52to ask
1:08:53and so so i'm i'm pouring a ton of bad
1:09:00vibes into this tea room hoping that it
1:09:02goes into the tea and then swapping wet
1:09:06t out there and it's pull a bad vibes
1:09:08like a Latin American movie we're
1:09:10cooking cooking makes things explode
1:09:11right on time movies at the movies were
1:09:14like depending on how who she's mad
1:09:16so the food's gonna make everybody we're
1:09:17here now everybody would have
1:09:18intercourse because she made tortillas
1:09:20like you're gonna send this bad vibes
1:09:21into the wet t this is like a losa
1:09:24marrows perros yeah sure your that's
1:09:26that's dogs little dogs in love with
1:09:28always love except the one dog kills all
1:09:30the talks
1:09:31Oh boiler no es bueno
1:09:34but anyway yeah right the tortillas are
1:09:36full of it makes everybody have sex and
1:09:38then there's a hundred years of solitude
1:09:40yeah that'd be nice this is a situation
1:09:42where I'm filling this tea with as much
1:09:44bad vibe as i can so good so that the
1:09:46people out there with the the fruit loop
1:09:48poppers are like oh man I'm not ordering
1:09:50this T anymore it's full of bad vibes
1:09:53and then the business collapses and the
1:09:54guy has to go back to making photography
1:09:56for a living and all these man buns are
1:09:59then like spurted out into the world
1:10:01like spores to create their bad vibes
1:10:04they're like shitty no nod culture they
1:10:08can take that into the streets and see
1:10:09how well it works right
1:10:12yeah now I know I likely put the shit
1:10:14you knot culture that is a shitty known
1:10:16on culture
1:10:17yeah if you have a node culture then
1:10:19like take it back to the farm or
1:10:21whatever don't you know like if you're
1:10:23always like it's not like you're like a
1:10:25Mexican drug lord you know what I mean
1:10:27you won't you fucking with the u-dub
1:10:29relax
1:10:30yeah where you didn't even get into u
1:10:31dub no no these are people that are that
1:10:34are used to being out in a place where
1:10:35you I guess you don't not at the county
1:10:37line behind the community making college
1:10:39and I don't they're not even vapors
1:10:41because they seem by the thinnest some
1:10:43fields by their work in the tea
1:10:45community that's exactly what I think I
1:10:47think there are vegans and I think you
1:10:49know that thing is the man bun the man
1:10:52bun it arrived we all mocked it
1:10:54mercilessly and then it persisted and
1:10:58then there was that there was that
1:10:59moment where everybody was like well you
1:11:01know there was that there was the
1:11:02blowback where people like stop mocking
1:11:04man but as we get it we get it all right
1:11:06for now maybe you know and that an
1:11:09attempt to make man buns as the two to
1:11:12make them serious uh-huh just they have
1:11:15they persisted they've they have they've
1:11:17lasted through our scorn and so now
1:11:20we're meant to would never meant to be
1:11:23like okay I guess you know I guess I'm
1:11:26the dummy for mocking somebody else's
1:11:28style I guess I'm I'm guess I'm the one
1:11:31that's not a little monster
1:11:32yeah I'm not one that's not inclusive
1:11:34enough but in reality no they are still
1:11:37dumb and marketable they are you know
1:11:40like a like I said the other day there
1:11:42are too many top knots and not enough
1:11:43samurai mm you know you you cannot just
1:11:47fucking where topknot it is cultural
1:11:50appropriation black something which is
1:11:53samurai oh I like the way you took that
1:11:55one that's good you know what I mean
1:11:56like yeah one that's insensitive you are
1:11:58insensitive to samurai yeah so fuck you
1:12:01with your topknot it's no good and if
1:12:03topknot is symbolic of no not culture
1:12:06then I say burned all the ground right
1:12:09you can't you're not going to be in my
1:12:11art space where I was formerly making an
1:12:14encaustic podcast it doesn't cost
1:12:16anything it doesn't cost anything to not
1:12:17to nod and i don't understand i do not
1:12:20get and this is the big this is that
1:12:23what I feel like is a component of the
1:12:25shove the shyness arms race but this is
1:12:31include things like the medium post on
1:12:33how to handle the introvert in your life
1:12:35yeah that stuff where it's like oh no
1:12:37you're not you're not an introvert I'm
1:12:40an intron see you guys
1:12:42yeah I'm so shy that I can't exist in
1:12:45the world and that is a that is like not
1:12:48a handicap it's a handy capable and
1:12:50you're not allowed to scorn me for a
1:12:53because nodding at you take so much of
1:12:56my life force that I collapse into a
1:12:59sobbing heap
1:13:00yeah so now you have to live in a world
1:13:02where people don't nod and smile at you
1:13:04a common courtesy a basic human
1:13:07interaction
1:13:08because it impedes my ability to be as
1:13:10shy as I think I am I mean you need to
1:13:12get back and you need to walk in there
1:13:14and you say look what exactly the fuck
1:13:15is going on here
1:13:17yeah you go into the white tea house and
1:13:19just sit and just sparked the man buns
1:13:21and get in there and see who's in charge
1:13:22of this joint and what exactly the fuck
1:13:24is going on here
1:13:25ok so here's what happened last week
1:13:27sitting in my podcast space i'm getting
1:13:31ready to record some vocals on this
1:13:33these vocal tracks that i'm working on
1:13:36which is a whole separate conversation
1:13:38and this is my private my normal private
1:13:42time in the art studio right all the
1:13:44people that are there during the day go
1:13:45home and then the only people that are
1:13:48there at night are people working in
1:13:49within the encaustic arts and so I can
1:13:53sing in my little wing and there's
1:13:56nobody else they're not no you're not
1:13:58bothering anyone
1:14:00and nobody's randomness is getting on
1:14:01your track that's right that's right
1:14:03there's nobody over there using a power
1:14:04tool and more importantly I'm not
1:14:07bothering anybody
1:14:08if you come into the the space at 9pm
1:14:11and you hear somebody singing you
1:14:14recognize that you are the one who is
1:14:16arriving late you are the interloper
1:14:18someone's they're making music and
1:14:20that's their right whereas if I'm
1:14:23singing it two o'clock in the afternoon
1:14:24and you're sitting at your computer
1:14:25doing graphic arts you are you
1:14:28it's within your rights to come over and
1:14:30knock on the door and say seriously what
1:14:31are you doing
1:14:32who but so I'm in there I'm getting
1:14:34ready to lay down some vocal tracks and
1:14:36then all of a sudden I hear a band
1:14:39practicing here and this space is very
1:14:42much like no band practice
1:14:45I i use myspace to make music but it is
1:14:49not a band practice it isn't under John
1:14:51as at the terms of being there it's not
1:14:54this is not like a storage shed type
1:14:56situation that's one of the things they
1:14:58say right when you walk in like no band
1:15:00practice can and so what I'm what i
1:15:02realize is i get i I go down the hall
1:15:06put my ear to the door
1:15:09and I realized that this is a situation
1:15:12where the man buns have now colonized
1:15:16the space with enmity operation where
1:15:20they have no connection to any of the
1:15:22art people there they are now there to
1:15:25there are two layers of being attendant
1:15:28away from ever having spoken to anybody
1:15:31involved in the building
1:15:33uh-huh someone at the T joint has said
1:15:36either yes you can
1:15:38band practice here or what I really
1:15:40suspect is one of the man buns has a key
1:15:42and he's like you know what there's
1:15:44nobody in there's nobody down there
1:15:45after nine just off able to scan
1:15:48operation that's right huh
1:15:50and so I'm not somebody who's going to
1:15:53pound on the door during band practice
1:15:54even if it's one that I am pouring scorn
1:15:58through the door is what kind of music I
1:16:01know it's not relevant necessarily but
1:16:03guess what kind of music the plan it
1:16:05just it felt like there was a person in
1:16:07there they could actually play the
1:16:08guitar i was in which Annie or like
1:16:10trans am like 11
1:16:11no no it actually kind of felt like Adam
1:16:14amalgam of of of some sort of you know
1:16:18hardrock plus a Lumineers style stomp
1:16:23bulk oh you know it's one of these
1:16:25things where that nobody has any nobody
1:16:27has any jumping-off point so it's just a
1:16:29mission like this modern songs where
1:16:31everyone kind of does a charity thing on
1:16:33it
1:16:33yeah they'll say Oh kind of thing
1:16:36yeah hey hey oh well bloomin years okay
1:16:40i was thinking something else
1:16:42it's all it's all like a post Mumford
1:16:46music no dear right that's you Mumford &
1:16:48post Mumford yeah and i think really it
1:16:50was that it was that bad from canada
1:16:52from Montreal that started it all
1:16:54the one that dealt that the that to
1:16:57David Byrne and David Bowie all the
1:16:59David's old jobs Empire weekend know
1:17:03that they came after then they have
1:17:06different not really not really but it's
1:17:08sick but the one from the 144 montreal
1:17:12where they were waving flags on stage
1:17:14and somebody had a typewriter and no
1:17:17no young guy knows i know you mean the I
1:17:19know you mean the yeah we can play drums
1:17:22on their heads
1:17:23yeah and somebody's got a horn somebody
1:17:25else's horn arcade fire arcade fire
1:17:28yeah they do a lot of that oil oh stop
1:17:32stop typing on typewriter honk david
1:17:37byrne comes out he's like I like this
1:17:40yeah whatever goes i'll buy it you know
1:17:42it's like LCD soundsystem where where as
1:17:44a collective a feeling like this is the
1:17:47thing
1:17:48yes and then everybody buys it and says
1:17:50then celebrates it was something about
1:17:52alko right but that's right so arcade
1:17:57fire is the Falco fire is gonna make
1:18:01Falco look like The Velvet Underground
1:18:04yeahhh mister
1:18:06did I ever tell you that I was on tour
1:18:08in canada with a opening with the
1:18:12opening for the tour of not a surf and
1:18:14death cab for cutie and after the show
1:18:17some a French Canadians came up and
1:18:21handed me a CDR and said really loved
1:18:25your show and it can even do a French
1:18:27accent anymore it's been so long since
1:18:29I've been on the United States i can get
1:18:31even do any of my accent yeah the event
1:18:33any account opposition we love this show
1:18:36they had to be the CDR and it was the
1:18:38arcade fire oh come on really
1:18:40and yeah I'm gonna and then two years
1:18:42later the biggest band in the world
1:18:44yeah and I was like I had that feeling
1:18:46of proximity to success
1:18:49I was like oh yeah you're my story every
1:18:52store you expect out of course I don't
1:18:57know these kids are gonna catch on if I
1:18:59yeah but this is the problem when you
1:19:01are that proximate to success right if
1:19:03you were if you like every Williams as a
1:19:05college roommate
1:19:07yeah it's not like it matters right you
1:19:10can't say oh you're going to be
1:19:12successful and so I want to be your
1:19:14wingman or something like I can't have I
1:19:17couldn't have been that moment said
1:19:18arcade fire i would like to invest my
1:19:21current net worth which is 40 long
1:19:24winters t-shirts and a box of kazoos i
1:19:28would like to get in early
1:19:29yeah and apply by thirty percent of your
1:19:33business for this nominal fee right like
1:19:36the like the graffiti artist at the
1:19:38facebook campus that ended up being
1:19:40worth 200 million dollars because they
1:19:42gave him a point one percent of the
1:19:44company instead of paying five thousand
1:19:45dollars to graffiti their their office
1:19:48you could I couldn't do that with the
1:19:51arcade fire and say here's a box along
1:19:52winners t-shirts that you don't want any
1:19:54but now i only thirty percent of your
1:19:56operation that people tried to do that
1:19:59to me back in the day like I took some
1:20:01band photos for you and so rather than
1:20:03get paid the five hundred dollars that
1:20:05cost i would like twenty percent of the
1:20:07Western State hurricanes that's
1:20:09complicated that's a complicated
1:20:10arrangement
1:20:11it was very complicated anyway so that
1:20:13it's all posts arcade fire post Mumford
1:20:16& Sons and stop rock and I'm here this
1:20:19through the door of the tea parlor and
1:20:22let me tell you Merlin I sent some
1:20:25emails haha oh did you go right back to
1:20:28your to Garrett and send some emails
1:20:30that's right I went I went all the way
1:20:32to the top closeout logic you just shut
1:20:34it all down back it up time to write
1:20:36some emails
1:20:36that's right I said I said a mirror i
1:20:38sent a letter to the mayor's office i
1:20:40sent a letter to the to the governor i
1:20:42sent a letter to elon musk and i said
1:20:45this will let's eat
1:20:47Cece let's lock mask say this will not
1:20:50stand
1:20:51I you know I have suffered through these
1:20:54non-coding add buns enough i want this
1:20:59whole operation shut down i want all
1:21:01these people out of the building and
1:21:03it's gonna be rats leaving a sinking
1:21:04ship and I don't know where they're
1:21:06gonna go and i haven't even taken by
1:21:07john and they won't say goodbye and i'm
1:21:09not on the way out i will say as I'm
1:21:12walking right past them i'll turn and
1:21:14i'll say farewell
1:21:15it's a good day sir good day sir how did
1:21:21any line must be the mayor get back to
1:21:23you know well the mirror the mirror
1:21:26right now has complicated feelings about
1:21:28me and Eli must never replies to any of
1:21:31my emails
1:21:31yeah and that you know that feels like
1:21:36that feels like an insult because i feel
1:21:38like i should or twenty percent what he
1:21:39does just based on the number of times
1:21:41i've mentioned him on this
1:21:42podcast it's a good point I you know
1:21:44there's a lot about this doesn't exactly
1:21:46add up
1:21:47I mean there's the part that adds up my
1:21:49first of all like making tea
1:21:50I don't know is that you get a
1:21:54straight-up business because a weed
1:21:57thing
1:21:58it smells a wheel the thing is weeds not
1:22:00illegal anymore in Seattle so you don't
1:22:02have to mask on negativity
1:22:03yeah you can just manufacture weed all
1:22:05day and just be like haha but uh but no
1:22:09I feel like I feel like people are
1:22:12trying to like the photography guy he's
1:22:16not satisfied people just aren't
1:22:19satisfied right so he's like I've got
1:22:22started I've got to start a separate
1:22:24operation is going to be this tea
1:22:26company it's gonna be like the megaman x
1:22:29yeah that's going to be at whole foods
1:22:31all around America here's the thing
1:22:33that's this whole thats hanging up a
1:22:35little bit and I i just know this most
1:22:37from watching TV and and seeing things
1:22:39around town but you know you got the
1:22:41whole like artisanal butcher thing you
1:22:42got small-batch thing right you got the
1:22:43whole like guys who suddenly grew beards
1:22:45and started wearing plaid thing i know
1:22:47this is already like a five or even ten
1:22:49year old trend but that's the thing and
1:22:51it's you know clearly there's this whole
1:22:52like we're locally sourced this resource
1:22:54that the thing is though the thing that
1:22:56keeps a lot of those things going is
1:22:58that there's a huge somewhere between
1:23:01performative and transparent component
1:23:06to it so on the one hand is the
1:23:08transparency of know i can tell you for
1:23:09sure that this pig came from down the
1:23:11block or that i know this is fair trade
1:23:14you know
1:23:15sparkling water or whatever but so
1:23:17there's that there's that transparency
1:23:18part of it right but there's also the
1:23:20performative part of it where we want
1:23:22you to see us making we want to give
1:23:24tours of where we make the whiskey we
1:23:26want you to come in and be able to take
1:23:27classes on how to butcher a pig
1:23:29there's a whole big part of this is what
1:23:31we don't want is some kind of you know
1:23:33for the sake of argument like a
1:23:35replacement sweaty in an encaustic
1:23:36painting factory that would be an
1:23:38unusual way to make an artisanal tee
1:23:41you're so right wire they asked their
1:23:43troopers why is where the band is
1:23:46practicing this feels like a jamup well
1:23:48see that's the thing they could be they
1:23:50could be in store for they could be
1:23:51selling brass t pipes
1:23:54arm and like the man buns could all be
1:23:58behind the counter with them would be
1:23:59flames and don't know if you can find
1:24:02they want technology but they wouldn't
1:24:04have to they could just make it higher
1:24:05one personable person standard don't be
1:24:09like welcome to the tea party welcome to
1:24:11the teashop e a and a look behind me as
1:24:15as the man buns all work before just
1:24:18there like history of Olympus they don't
1:24:19know that talking is not their strong
1:24:21suit they might sing a little bit when
1:24:22somebody dies but apart from that
1:24:23they're mostly just they're just like 10
1:24:25to the pipe exactly somebody somebody
1:24:27gets zoomed up into a television set and
1:24:30the man's all go don't go top-20 went to
1:24:35you work at you go
1:24:36yeah I I feel like that some it is a
1:24:39missed opportunity and I don't maybe it
1:24:41is that the San Francisco's ation of
1:24:43Seattle hasn't been
1:24:44comparison complete yet i think it was a
1:24:46plane obviously the joke still being
1:24:48like a Portland thing
1:24:49well I think that's super seriously and
1:24:51but so but the weird part is there's one
1:24:54thing of like okay let's add value by
1:24:58doing something something repackaging t
1:24:59there's that part but then the whole
1:25:01like they're making like tubs of tea to
1:25:03settle somewhere is weird the whole the
1:25:07whole operation stinks but i can't find
1:25:10anything about it that's illegal except
1:25:12for the band practice
1:25:13yeah I feel like the ideal what's
1:25:15illegal about it is that it's that it's
1:25:17aesthetically illegal it's just that is
1:25:19to synthetically if they were just not
1:25:21it's how hard is it to not if they
1:25:23nodded maybe I'd be their best friend
1:25:24maybe i would buy a fucking jiggity a
1:25:26week huh you know drug too weak to give
1:25:29me their slogan I'll see that's good
1:25:31that they could use that but they're
1:25:32never even get to hear that because they
1:25:33won't even acknowledge you
1:25:35yeah i mean i have a friend in San
1:25:37Francisco who uh who is co-owner of a
1:25:40restaurant it's a brewpub sorry brewpub
1:25:44if it's different from a gastropub this
1:25:47is a bi well it absolutely because this
1:25:49is a brew pub where they also give
1:25:52lessons in homebrewing so it's more of a
1:25:57brew resource resource through resource
1:26:00and when they when they were talking
1:26:03about opening this thing here's this is
1:26:05the modern-day right they put up
1:26:07Kickstarter or some kind of crowd
1:26:09funding thing they set out to the
1:26:11neighborhood and they said don't you
1:26:12want to brew pub in your neighborhood
1:26:13you guys right now living in this
1:26:15neighborhood without a brewpub who's
1:26:18with me
1:26:18who's with me and they raised the money
1:26:21to open the brew college the brewpub
1:26:24college through crowdfunding around the
1:26:28neighbor so it's like but it's but it's
1:26:31the the neighborhood that's such a
1:26:33different way of handling it my goodness
1:26:35the neighborhood doesn't directly profit
1:26:37from it they profit from it by having
1:26:39now an interesting thing in their
1:26:40neighborhood but it's this idea of like
1:26:43collectively why don't we open
1:26:45collectively why don't you help us open
1:26:47this thing that will profit for us but
1:26:50you will you'll reap the benefits of
1:26:52having your neighborhood smell like
1:26:53cooked tomatoes whatever that smell is
1:26:56when beers brewing that smells like
1:26:58tomato soup
1:26:59oh right like breweries a beer brewery
1:27:03has a very distinctive I think it must
1:27:04be pops
1:27:05it's the hops it's a very high too tangy
1:27:08smell i'm going to busch gardens kid I
1:27:10mean you never forget that smell
1:27:11yeah if it were me and I gotta and I
1:27:14gotta fly under my door that said go to
1:27:15our kickstarter and help us fund our
1:27:18brew pub in your neighborhood i would
1:27:20start an alternate Kickstarter send me
1:27:22the money to keep this brew pub from
1:27:25happening because i don't like the smell
1:27:26of tomatoes holiday iconic stomper if
1:27:28you should be away like a stopper it's a
1:27:30way where you go in and you basically
1:27:32paid something that happened a
1:27:33Kickstarter sounds like how Mumford &
1:27:36Sons fucking funded therefore yeah it's
1:27:39like Oh exactly
1:27:40boom
1:27:42boom boom 1 & 4 1 & 4 mm thick stop it
1:27:48stop it Nick stop the shit out of that
1:27:51make it make it viral I don't want i
1:27:53don't thing is is there anything worse
1:27:56then home brewers and I normally a lot
1:28:00of letters now who is I feel like there
1:28:03are a lot of beards listening this
1:28:04program that are also making growlers
1:28:06for their own beer making growlers but
1:28:08when you when you stand around in a
1:28:10group of homebrewers it's like it's like
1:28:15it's like if a bunch of farmers from the
1:28:19thirties we're on a space station the
1:28:24the level of bunch of farmers in a in a
1:28:27small cafe in a town of 2,500 people the
1:28:33that that level of conversation but on a
1:28:37spaceship that's what I feel like being
1:28:40in a group of homebrewers is like
1:28:42because it's both very retro but all and
1:28:48and also very unnecessary
1:28:50mhm very specialized but transported to
1:28:54a world in which future shock is a big
1:28:57component of it right we are making our
1:28:59own home brew now for some reason
1:29:02because of this because we have created
1:29:05an alternate future we have gone back in
1:29:08time and we have created a world in
1:29:11which Cowboys at rocket ships
1:29:13haha because of steampunk and now we're
1:29:16living in a world where we don't need to
1:29:18buy beer because we can pay 40 times as
1:29:21much to make it ourselves we can spend
1:29:23we can spend 40 times as much to have
1:29:25the inconvenience of making ourselves
1:29:26hmm it feels like I'm on a spaceship
1:29:29made out of steam tubes and I don't have
1:29:34it there's no point of entry for me I
1:29:36did not want it did not want cowboy
1:29:39brass Rockets i do not want homemade
1:29:44beer
1:29:45mhm and I don't want to live in a future
1:29:48where the president was homemade beer
1:29:52and artisanal tease because what I and
1:29:54what I'm imagining is that
1:29:56it's going to create a future where the
1:29:582040s going to make the 2010 look like
1:30:03the eighteen sixties that didn't happen
1:30:06a lot to process and I'm still trying to
1:30:12figure it out to i live in annex herb
1:30:15yeah i'm waiting for the fruit first
1:30:17group of engineers to come out here and
1:30:18take over our our community center from
1:30:21and i'll be there celebrating my new
1:30:23squid overlords
1:30:25uh-huh but I'm trying to figure out how
1:30:28I can get twenty percent of the company
1:30:30yeah I think you got you got to take a
1:30:35whole party down there you got it you
1:30:36got a group down there and can you get
1:30:38common cause with anybody else in the
1:30:39building who doesn't like these team
1:30:41owners well they're artists right so
1:30:44they're all suffering from this case of
1:30:46the shiz
1:30:47yeah nobody wants any confrontation and
1:30:50that's why I sent those emails instead
1:30:51of pounding on the door and saying who
1:30:53the fuck are you
1:30:54yeah yeah and waving a copy of my rental
1:30:57agreement
1:30:59you know I don't want to be that guy now
1:31:03who's everybody else is in there space
1:31:05you know like like painting with a
1:31:07screwdriver and nobody wants any problem
1:31:11with anybody let alone let alone a bunch
1:31:13of skinny man bonds huh
1:31:15but a but there should be there should
1:31:19be a moment of a movement and maybe you
1:31:21know maybe I'll have a march with the
1:31:22mayor at the head of it
1:31:24Elon Musk is there on a hoverboard and
1:31:27we're marching through the streets
1:31:28saying take your reprehensible culture
1:31:32out to the exurbs you can also take what
1:31:34you learn from being so steep and
1:31:36hip-hop culture you bring your crew like
1:31:38you bring all of your like-minded people
1:31:40write your posse will have a dance-off
1:31:46pump pump pump pump pump pump pump pump
1:31:51pump that's exactly it