Roderick on the Line

Ep. 186: "Electric Papers"


00:00:00   hello hi John [TS]

00:00:08   I burlwood how's it going Oh fine I'm [TS]

00:00:13   I'm just fighting a thing i'm fighting [TS]

00:00:16   of an interior thing [TS]

00:00:17   no now the this sometimes those are the [TS]

00:00:20   most difficult things to fight [TS]

00:00:22   mhm know you're getting ill well you [TS]

00:00:27   know I haven't had been getting ill [TS]

00:00:29   lately and I'm but I'm gonna stick with [TS]

00:00:32   that you know I have a good friend that [TS]

00:00:34   that the claims that she never get sick [TS]

00:00:36   and and when I have personally witnessed [TS]

00:00:41   her being sick she denies that she's [TS]

00:00:44   sick and that's such a that such a flip [TS]

00:00:46   from most people or I don't know from a [TS]

00:00:49   lot of people who are always getting [TS]

00:00:51   sick when they're not she never gets [TS]

00:00:53   sick when she is and I've started to [TS]

00:00:57   kind of adopt that mentality I'm not [TS]

00:00:59   sick I don't get sick i'm actually [TS]

00:01:01   pretty interested in that because I have [TS]

00:01:03   met people like this and I it's hard to [TS]

00:01:05   tell whether it works or not it's one of [TS]

00:01:07   those things like you know scared the [TS]

00:01:08   alligators away but enlightened I've met [TS]

00:01:10   people who seem they're so fixed in [TS]

00:01:14   their insistence that they aren't sick [TS]

00:01:16   and don't get sick [TS]

00:01:17   yeah that they sometimes seem to [TS]

00:01:18   actually beat it back and I wonder if [TS]

00:01:20   that works [TS]

00:01:21   I wonder that when i'm talking about the [TS]

00:01:24   corollary the corollary is we constantly [TS]

00:01:26   think you're getting sick and you do get [TS]

00:01:27   sick now I believe that can be a thing [TS]

00:01:28   that happened that used to happen to me [TS]

00:01:30   all the time remember when I would come [TS]

00:01:31   on this program might be sick all the [TS]

00:01:33   time used to be sick of it too [TS]

00:01:35   I was sick all the time and now I'm [TS]

00:01:36   chasing the alligator away is what is [TS]

00:01:38   what we're basically saying so so that's [TS]

00:01:40   happening i feel a SI feel some [TS]

00:01:43   sensations which are not sickness [TS]

00:01:45   sensations but we're just simply my body [TS]

00:01:49   telling me that I'm alive and that [TS]

00:01:52   foreign agents are lurking there lurking [TS]

00:01:57   around the the the dark corners of the [TS]

00:02:00   city of my lungs and nose and I'm not [TS]

00:02:04   going to allow them i'm gonna it's [TS]

00:02:06   basically going to be a a [TS]

00:02:08   counter-insurgency on the part of my [TS]

00:02:12   white [TS]

00:02:13   it sells another other things that I [TS]

00:02:15   don't understand [TS]

00:02:17   so it's a counter insurgency against [TS]

00:02:20   against the attack on your dark city [TS]

00:02:23   that's right ok well who can talk about [TS]

00:02:26   this in a while but there's always I [TS]

00:02:29   think we're leaving [TS]

00:02:30   I feel like we've left the door open to [TS]

00:02:32   the idea that in first of all let's take [TS]

00:02:35   it as read there's probably other stuff [TS]

00:02:36   out there in the universe you know right [TS]

00:02:39   there are some people who say well [TS]

00:02:40   obviously there's nothing else out there [TS]

00:02:41   in the universe are they already would [TS]

00:02:43   be here I don't have the logical skills [TS]

00:02:44   to say whether that makes any sense [TS]

00:02:46   I think we can also probably agree that [TS]

00:02:48   if there are people coming here they're [TS]

00:02:49   people listen to me right people [TS]

00:02:52   sure people right why this is a product [TS]

00:02:54   being stop being so safety and central [TS]

00:02:57   normative yeah yeah it's like Star Trek [TS]

00:02:59   you know you like a regular person but [TS]

00:03:01   they put some makeup on you i mean it's [TS]

00:03:02   green it up in some weird here's exactly [TS]

00:03:06   well I think we can agree that you would [TS]

00:03:08   probably be the emissary that seems [TS]

00:03:10   clear [TS]

00:03:10   so what if it's not somebody in a shiny [TS]

00:03:14   lemay cape and a green face [TS]

00:03:17   what if what if you are being reached [TS]

00:03:18   one of your dark city is being contacted [TS]

00:03:20   by these very attackers that you now [TS]

00:03:23   seek to repeal uh-huh so I'm saying what [TS]

00:03:26   if i'm not saying you should do this you [TS]

00:03:27   probably very busy right now but like [TS]

00:03:29   what if you opened yourself to the idea [TS]

00:03:31   that could be some kind of a beatific [TS]

00:03:33   experience happening here that's not [TS]

00:03:34   about illness it reads illness because [TS]

00:03:36   you know you've never been an emissary [TS]

00:03:38   as far as we know actually for what if [TS]

00:03:41   they're they're out there they're [TS]

00:03:42   knocking on the door they say junk we [TS]

00:03:44   come in [TS]

00:03:44   yeah sure they're saying this is how we [TS]

00:03:47   make contact this is how we we want to [TS]

00:03:50   commune with you and right now your body [TS]

00:03:53   is having up you know some kind of [TS]

00:03:55   fairly profound reaction but it's just [TS]

00:03:59   that your body doesn't know how to [TS]

00:04:01   interpret interstellar oh absolutely i [TS]

00:04:05   mean if it was one of its norm of benign [TS]

00:04:07   galactic toxoplasmosis where first they [TS]

00:04:11   need to plant they need to plant some [TS]

00:04:12   ideas lets you sit around those ideas [TS]

00:04:14   for six weeks before they go to the next [TS]

00:04:15   stage [TS]

00:04:16   sure take a look at the star man to play [TS]

00:04:22   with his ding-dong wrong song [TS]

00:04:25   long and yet these lyrics work em and [TS]

00:04:29   then I go on the floor show [TS]

00:04:31   no I feel like that is that's why I [TS]

00:04:35   almost that's maybe my favorite David [TS]

00:04:37   Boies on [TS]

00:04:37   yeah I'm i feel like it may be a star [TS]

00:04:39   man playing with his ding-dong [TS]

00:04:41   oh I'm what i want what i actually just [TS]

00:04:46   look at the actual lyric for later on [TS]

00:04:48   take a look at the Starman playing with [TS]

00:04:52   his ding-dong [TS]

00:04:53   oh man look at that ding dong Garland [TS]

00:04:57   and then the perpendicular show so is [TS]

00:05:03   there life in John mind and his nasal [TS]

00:05:08   cavity [TS]

00:05:09   I what I want is again I want two more [TS]

00:05:12   attacks on our fathers have you been [TS]

00:05:15   watching it [TS]

00:05:16   no you know i watch i don't wanna watch [TS]

00:05:19   the weird one [TS]

00:05:20   oh yeah what's the I don't want to watch [TS]

00:05:22   the weird one especially not the later [TS]

00:05:24   weird was only seven hours long john at [TS]

00:05:26   seven hours long and it and it involves [TS]

00:05:28   a conspiracy to kill the pope and I [TS]

00:05:30   don't want to hear it [TS]

00:05:31   no no no no they don't include that one [TS]

00:05:33   it's seven hours that right first two [TS]

00:05:35   movies yeah but your flight I think the [TS]

00:05:37   point [TS]

00:05:38   oh yeah I don't want to see I don't [TS]

00:05:40   wanna see robert de niro appear halfway [TS]

00:05:42   through the film [TS]

00:05:43   yea Lord the beginning of the film what [TS]

00:05:45   am I trying to say i don't even [TS]

00:05:46   understand it you know you're the first [TS]

00:05:47   1i saw your first concern you don't want [TS]

00:05:49   my coming on that bathroom with his dick [TS]

00:05:51   in his hand [TS]

00:05:52   that's right the first one I saw in 1977 [TS]

00:05:55   or whatever they sat me down in front of [TS]

00:05:56   the television the same way in fifth [TS]

00:05:57   grade they handed me tale of two cities [TS]

00:05:59   and said you're a smart kid [TS]

00:06:00   here read tale of two cities it was like [TS]

00:06:03   a ok and then and it was one of it was [TS]

00:06:05   like it was like they was like a dare [TS]

00:06:07   write it was like oh you're a smart kid [TS]

00:06:09   here [TS]

00:06:10   go for it read tale of two cities and i [TS]

00:06:13   was like i'm sure i've never heard of [TS]

00:06:15   the French Revolution but yes all right [TS]

00:06:16   I can do this and I'd and I did it like [TS]

00:06:19   like like you would say here could climb [TS]

00:06:22   the climb this ladder did it was like [TS]

00:06:23   eating your piece you did the whole [TS]

00:06:25   thing i did the whole thing that I had [TS]

00:06:27   and had no actual comprehension of what [TS]

00:06:29   I was doing but when they asked me about [TS]

00:06:31   i'm talking about the people in schools [TS]

00:06:32   now [TS]

00:06:33   yeah when they when they require that i [TS]

00:06:34   read a book report about it because [TS]

00:06:36   because they didn't because obviously I [TS]

00:06:38   wasn't going to read watership down our [TS]

00:06:40   with the rest of the class right and i [TS]

00:06:42   read it already too sad [TS]

00:06:44   so they were like oh you know here's it [TS]

00:06:46   this is what we this is the Honors [TS]

00:06:47   Program read moby-dick image of those [TS]

00:06:51   things I just those things and then I [TS]

00:06:53   was required to to report to them report [TS]

00:06:55   to adults who who my I even at the time [TS]

00:06:58   I thought had not read those books and I [TS]

00:07:02   didn't know what I had read but I gave a [TS]

00:07:05   good you know i gave a good game [TS]

00:07:07   the problem was that that because it was [TS]

00:07:09   a dare I couldn't say that I didn't get [TS]

00:07:12   them because then the adults would be [TS]

00:07:14   disappointed in me and then I wouldn't [TS]

00:07:16   be a genius so what's the worst of times [TS]

00:07:18   and the worst of times that's right you [TS]

00:07:20   know he says he can't win you can't win [TS]

00:07:21   against who wrote that [TS]

00:07:24   yeah the dickens wrote Taylor two cities [TS]

00:07:27   and then he also wrote Moby Dick [TS]

00:07:29   it's a it's it all it all tells the same [TS]

00:07:31   story but basically a white whale fights [TS]

00:07:35   a revolution [TS]

00:07:36   uh-huh against a like some kind of Sun [TS]

00:07:40   King right that was later turned into [TS]

00:07:42   the the plane name is Rob hmm that's [TS]

00:07:46   right exactly what lame is rob and and [TS]

00:07:48   then there are helicopters that come [TS]

00:07:50   down and there's some kind of Vietnam [TS]

00:07:52   and like allegory where he goes up a [TS]

00:07:55   river so it's it's this little King goes [TS]

00:07:58   up a river find a white whale yep [TS]

00:07:59   battles with himself chasing for the [TS]

00:08:02   rest of his life whales like you can [TS]

00:08:04   never change and in any case the first [TS]

00:08:10   time I saw the Godfather i was i was so [TS]

00:08:13   I was saturday down in front of a [TS]

00:08:15   television an enormous television that [TS]

00:08:17   also had a record player in it and [TS]

00:08:20   people said this is an important film [TS]

00:08:22   and you need to watch it and then they [TS]

00:08:24   left right they didn't want to watch it [TS]

00:08:26   they went upstairs on that's right to [TS]

00:08:28   tip you off [TS]

00:08:29   yeah yeah and they're like this is for [TS]

00:08:31   you now you are we are we are we are [TS]

00:08:34   punching your card we are giving you an [TS]

00:08:36   adult ID and it involves watching the [TS]

00:08:39   godfather so i sat in front of it again [TS]

00:08:41   on comprehending wanting to watch happy [TS]

00:08:46   days [TS]

00:08:46   wanting to be a normal kid forced to [TS]

00:08:49   watch this in this long confusing [TS]

00:08:51   slow-moving a film where they had edited [TS]

00:08:56   out all the parts where people died for [TS]

00:08:58   all the all the blood and guts huh so [TS]

00:09:01   it's just what is this montage with the [TS]

00:09:04   with the baptism of the baby and then [TS]

00:09:06   people walking in and out of barbershops [TS]

00:09:08   you know what's at emergency haircuts [TS]

00:09:11   the tonka I don't get this at all man [TS]

00:09:14   and i'm not going to use revolving doors [TS]

00:09:16   anymore so I that's right i'm never [TS]

00:09:20   gonna come down the steps of a federal [TS]

00:09:21   courthouse every time I get to make it [TS]

00:09:23   every time [TS]

00:09:24   Oh somebody's writing a ticket I'm [TS]

00:09:26   getting out of here get out so yeah so I [TS]

00:09:31   was miserable and then later later on I [TS]

00:09:34   I don't even remember how I reintroduce [TS]

00:09:36   myself to it but maybe it was I get [TS]

00:09:38   tired of middle-aged men making [TS]

00:09:40   references i didn't understand [TS]

00:09:41   yeah and you know now of course I've [TS]

00:09:44   seen a 25 times also you know movies [TS]

00:09:47   movies used to be shorter interesting i [TS]

00:09:52   think the deer hunter disproves that [TS]

00:09:54   well but before the nineteen seventies I [TS]

00:09:57   mean oh I see what you're saying [TS]

00:09:58   what did you know it's funny thing about [TS]

00:09:59   this there's so much that comes washing [TS]

00:10:01   over me now that I still love movies and [TS]

00:10:04   have a kid and I like watching movies [TS]

00:10:06   but like there's there's so much to [TS]

00:10:07   think about where like and I actually [TS]

00:10:10   like it was asking me about she's [TS]

00:10:11   looking for maximum posters yesterday [TS]

00:10:12   and saying what is the comics code [TS]

00:10:14   how could she miss your excellent [TS]

00:10:16   posters from have five of them here in [TS]

00:10:17   the office and choosing what is the [TS]

00:10:18   comics code she's seen this on old [TS]

00:10:20   comics and I did the best I could with [TS]

00:10:22   my meager understanding of it to say [TS]

00:10:24   well you know there is this before i was [TS]

00:10:26   born there was a controversy kind of [TS]

00:10:29   built up out of almost nothing about how [TS]

00:10:32   basically comic books were damaging kids [TS]

00:10:36   I couldn't tell her all the things that [TS]

00:10:37   you know they were worried about you [TS]

00:10:39   know there's a sexy things but I said [TS]

00:10:40   like for example you could have zombies [TS]

00:10:42   in comic books anymore was one of the [TS]

00:10:44   things there's some kind of this part of [TS]

00:10:46   the comics code [TS]

00:10:47   well there's this book that came out of [TS]

00:10:48   the name is Casey there's a book that [TS]

00:10:50   came out in the mid-fifties by this this [TS]

00:10:52   demagogue who basically was saying the [TS]

00:10:55   comics are destroying our children [TS]

00:10:58   and.and mainly i think going after or [TS]

00:11:01   sort of email there's a time when war [TS]

00:11:04   comics and especially crime comics were [TS]

00:11:06   popular but another huge onra was like [TS]

00:11:08   the tales of the crypts at the ec comics [TS]

00:11:10   those wonderful nomics about you know [TS]

00:11:11   gory stuff you know I loved those those [TS]

00:11:14   are fans those are those first of all [TS]

00:11:16   they're beautiful they still stand the [TS]

00:11:18   test of time they look fantastic but no [TS]

00:11:20   comments code was a way of saying it was [TS]

00:11:21   kind of like the PMRC in the eighties [TS]

00:11:24   when they said look either you can let [TS]

00:11:25   us do this and will just shut you down [TS]

00:11:27   or you can find some way to placate us [TS]

00:11:29   by uh you know patrolling yourselves and [TS]

00:11:32   so there was this i'll try to find it [TS]

00:11:34   send it to you later but there is this [TS]

00:11:36   you know crazy listing stuff he just [TS]

00:11:37   couldn't do in comics anymore including [TS]

00:11:39   things like I want to say like [TS]

00:11:41   challenging Authority they're worth over [TS]

00:11:43   like you couldn't you couldn't do stuff [TS]

00:11:45   like you couldn't I think you weren't [TS]

00:11:46   allowed to insult heads of state and [TS]

00:11:49   things like that there's all this crazy [TS]

00:11:51   one of those like omnibus bills kind of [TS]

00:11:53   things and it you know it's what make [TS]

00:11:55   comics kind of lame for a while and it [TS]

00:11:56   wasn't until the seventies that really [TS]

00:11:58   got kind of brushed away [TS]

00:12:00   do you remember anymore now that i think [TS]

00:12:01   about that it seems like whenever a [TS]

00:12:04   president or a you know exactly as you [TS]

00:12:10   say a head of state or even that even [TS]

00:12:13   like ahead of business showed up in a [TS]

00:12:16   comic it was always it was always like [TS]

00:12:19   sort of a weird hero that didn't that [TS]

00:12:23   you wish would go away as fast as he [TS]

00:12:25   could like hey its president reagan [TS]

00:12:28   hello there Superman usually usually [TS]

00:12:30   pretty clunky I think there's an [TS]

00:12:31   Avengers with david letterman in it was [TS]

00:12:33   pretty weird [TS]

00:12:34   uh-huh under the Avengers but there was [TS]

00:12:37   definitely kind of course famously [TS]

00:12:39   captain america who was always punching [TS]

00:12:42   Hitler in the face that was kinda cool i [TS]

00:12:44   guess that would you could get a pass on [TS]

00:12:45   punching her in the face I mean then [TS]

00:12:48   Quentin Tarantino really really took [TS]

00:12:50   that all the way he reinterpreted with [TS]

00:12:53   that japanese girls with swords hear ya [TS]

00:12:55   to ya cut off Hitler but but that my [TS]

00:12:58   favorite got go ahead not only concern [TS]

00:13:00   was that the bridge here is that there [TS]

00:13:02   was a time where i guess it was believed [TS]

00:13:05   that in certain kinds of media you had [TS]

00:13:07   to create media that would be utterly in [TS]

00:13:09   offensive to anyone including like that [TS]

00:13:11   toddler this before the idea of like the [TS]

00:13:14   rating system came along in movies and [TS]

00:13:15   so you know there would be this you know [TS]

00:13:18   double entendre and stuff like that but [TS]

00:13:19   you could go to a movie theater and with [TS]

00:13:22   your kid and see pretty much any movie [TS]

00:13:25   it might not be interesting to that [TS]

00:13:26   child but there would be nothing in it [TS]

00:13:28   that was you know horrific that wasn't [TS]

00:13:29   until whatever was a mini cowboy was the [TS]

00:13:31   first x-rated famous x-rated film the [TS]

00:13:33   the rating system came along I think in [TS]

00:13:35   the late sixties and with similar [TS]

00:13:37   concerns you know do you know do you [TS]

00:13:39   know that my mom now that you're saying [TS]

00:13:41   this my mom sent me down again right [TS]

00:13:43   about the time of the right about the [TS]

00:13:45   time they're forcing me to read [TS]

00:13:46   moby-dick and watch the godfather this [TS]

00:13:48   she said she was watching a film with me [TS]

00:13:51   and she said that right there is a code [TS]

00:13:55   for them having sex haha like leaned [TS]

00:13:59   over and said that and I was like what [TS]

00:14:01   what how what like she's on the floor or [TS]

00:14:03   something i had missed it and it was was [TS]

00:14:06   uh you know it was like for some from [TS]

00:14:09   here to eternity movie where they they [TS]

00:14:12   were kissing and then the camera turns [TS]

00:14:14   away camera panned away and there was [TS]

00:14:16   there were waves washing on the beach [TS]

00:14:18   right or it was or you know that the [TS]

00:14:21   camera panned away and it was a [TS]

00:14:22   locomotive going into a tunnel or [TS]

00:14:23   whatever it was and it was a man making [TS]

00:14:28   a ring with his left hand and putting [TS]

00:14:30   the forefinger from his right hand into [TS]

00:14:32   it and out of it repeatedly and and I [TS]

00:14:35   and as a you know as an eight-year-old I [TS]

00:14:38   hadn't gotten it [TS]

00:14:40   I thought that they were I thought that [TS]

00:14:41   they liked each other very much our [TS]

00:14:43   kissing and then it would then we were [TS]

00:14:44   segue into another scene and my mom was [TS]

00:14:46   like that's a code for having sex and I [TS]

00:14:50   was embarrassed of course we're because [TS]

00:14:51   whenever anybody talks about sex that [TS]

00:14:53   was embarrassing yes but i was curious [TS]

00:14:55   about it right like what is this what is [TS]

00:14:57   this code it's a and so somehow we got [TS]

00:15:00   into a conversation about and I think it [TS]

00:15:02   was that she probably brought it up [TS]

00:15:05   again and said look in movies when [TS]

00:15:07   people are having sex they can't make an [TS]

00:15:12   over reference to it so there are all [TS]

00:15:14   these ways hear you're nine ten eleven [TS]

00:15:17   at this point however i'd say 80 [TS]

00:15:21   my hand and so then i was i was curious [TS]

00:15:26   about every aspect of that but people [TS]

00:15:29   having sex first of all and then you [TS]

00:15:32   know what she's like they can't show [TS]

00:15:33   tongue kissing you ever notice that they [TS]

00:15:36   go in and they had their very [TS]

00:15:37   passionately kissing but it's kind of [TS]

00:15:38   like it's kind of like that seen a kind [TS]

00:15:41   of like something from animal house [TS]

00:15:43   where the guy puts his hand up over her [TS]

00:15:44   mouth and starts passionately kissing [TS]

00:15:46   the back of his hand [TS]

00:15:47   yeah like the passionate kisses are are [TS]

00:15:51   are still very chasing she chased and [TS]

00:15:54   she she was like that's not how people [TS]

00:15:56   actually kiss when they're about to make [TS]

00:15:58   love that is fake be ready at this point [TS]

00:16:02   yeah because that's that is in the [TS]

00:16:04   movies and I'm like how do people [TS]

00:16:05   actually kiss and she's like well they [TS]

00:16:07   slobber all over each other their [TS]

00:16:08   tongues and it's been there and snot is [TS]

00:16:11   coming out of her nose it's really [TS]

00:16:12   horrific i was like ok all right ok [TS]

00:16:15   because you know my mom a my parents [TS]

00:16:19   were married anymore and be uh they both [TS]

00:16:23   kept their affection for their friends [TS]

00:16:27   if you will completely out of public eye [TS]

00:16:31   right if my mom was kissing someone and [TS]

00:16:33   I walked in the room the kissing stopped [TS]

00:16:35   and everyone you know everyone clasp [TS]

00:16:39   their hands in their laps and said so [TS]

00:16:41   anyway we're talking about Moby Dick [TS]

00:16:44   uh-huh and so I never said I didn't [TS]

00:16:46   really see it you know it was the [TS]

00:16:47   seventies people were slobbering over [TS]

00:16:49   each other big big ways but i didn't i [TS]

00:16:52   didn't have a lot of first-hand exposure [TS]

00:16:54   to it so it's like what are they but [TS]

00:16:55   people do what now a train goes into a [TS]

00:16:58   tunnel [TS]

00:16:58   yeah i mean i understood that the the [TS]

00:17:01   mathematics of sex but i think those [TS]

00:17:06   codes really did a job on us it's like [TS]

00:17:07   we never see dead bodies i mean the [TS]

00:17:10   movies we do but we never see him in [TS]

00:17:11   person right [TS]

00:17:12   um yeah i've been at last few months I [TS]

00:17:16   guess I've been really struggling with [TS]

00:17:17   this with my kid because she [TS]

00:17:20   Shh I wish she had a chance to to be [TS]

00:17:22   interviewed about her understanding of [TS]

00:17:24   these things i think i'll be extremely [TS]

00:17:25   interesting very very different from the [TS]

00:17:28   understanding of an eight-year-old in [TS]

00:17:30   the 50 60 70 is a tease i bet it's [TS]

00:17:32   different in every era with him i'm [TS]

00:17:34   willing to conduct those interviews if [TS]

00:17:36   you want to fund [TS]

00:17:37   let's go on that yeah i would need me to [TS]

00:17:39   get a grant from the robert wood johnson [TS]

00:17:40   foundation to help out but you know but [TS]

00:17:42   you know if you think about again think [TS]

00:17:44   about in the eighties when or if I'm [TS]

00:17:47   asking about the seventies think about [TS]

00:17:48   how much that's basically all i do I you [TS]

00:17:51   know I know but think about how much [TS]

00:17:52   like straight-up murder was on TV oh [TS]

00:17:55   yeah right there was a lot of Kodiak on [TS]

00:17:58   Kojak Chicago bang you start thinking a [TS]

00:18:00   lot about like all there was there so [TS]

00:18:02   much just people getting killed on TV [TS]

00:18:05   and so you know the conventional wisdom [TS]

00:18:07   over the years became that you know [TS]

00:18:08   Europeans thinks think it's so weird [TS]

00:18:11   that we have so much murder on TV and so [TS]

00:18:13   little like genuine like affectionate [TS]

00:18:15   sex and the kind of vice versa so we get [TS]

00:18:17   one of those British imports where [TS]

00:18:18   there's no shooting booby since like you [TS]

00:18:20   know you know how Britannia sure but no [TS]

00:18:22   no never let the little bit let carry on [TS]

00:18:26   Benny Hill but at the reason I say that [TS]

00:18:29   is that i don't see too much here but [TS]

00:18:31   you know my ear but for example like [TS]

00:18:33   there are times when you need a bridge [TS]

00:18:35   to explain something about what's going [TS]

00:18:38   on in the past like we were the camera [TS]

00:18:41   pans away and it shows us a train tunnel [TS]

00:18:43   a man doing this at this finger [TS]

00:18:44   no it's a picture of a bridge camera [TS]

00:18:46   pans away and it's like oh this is this [TS]

00:18:48   is a real segue it's actually a bridge [TS]

00:18:51   the first time that's actually that's [TS]

00:18:52   part of the movie honey of the first [TS]

00:18:54   time I ever said this I already knew i [TS]

00:18:56   was going down a path that I would have [TS]

00:18:57   to walk back at some point but at the [TS]

00:18:59   the term became kissing like okay so [TS]

00:19:03   that's you know and that could be a way [TS]

00:19:04   of explaining that one yeah here's what [TS]

00:19:06   it means to be gay what it means to be [TS]

00:19:07   gay is that you like kissing people that [TS]

00:19:10   the same gender is you and like she's [TS]

00:19:12   ridiculously open-minded about that like [TS]

00:19:15   it's really cool like she thinks it's [TS]

00:19:18   really weird that you're not allowed to [TS]

00:19:19   do what you want with who you want but [TS]

00:19:21   you know kissing so but at some point at [TS]

00:19:23   some point soon [TS]

00:19:24   that's going to start really breaking [TS]

00:19:26   down as the way of explaining this this [TS]

00:19:28   as a shorthand heuristic this whole [TS]

00:19:31   class of things that are actually much [TS]

00:19:32   beyond [TS]

00:19:33   kissing mmm raise your leg yeah and so [TS]

00:19:36   it will be watching something that's a [TS]

00:19:37   little bit you know PG pg-13 and and it [TS]

00:19:41   it really pushes the bounds of my [TS]

00:19:43   analogy or my metonymy i guess for [TS]

00:19:46   explaining what's happening so I'm not [TS]

00:19:48   looking forward to the day where i am [TS]

00:19:50   not worried so much about having to [TS]

00:19:51   explain the actual real-world mechanics [TS]

00:19:53   but like we're going to go rewatch a lot [TS]

00:19:55   of things and go that really wasn't [TS]

00:19:56   kissing one yeah i'm gonna start i'm [TS]

00:19:59   gonna start referring to sex as beyond [TS]

00:20:02   kissing and I think that that's gonna [TS]

00:20:05   actually improve my life and a lot of [TS]

00:20:07   ways just be like are you how are we [TS]

00:20:10   ready [TS]

00:20:11   I love you I'm when it's like looking at [TS]

00:20:14   a pretty terrible time for the ratings [TS]

00:20:17   the mpaa rating system at this point [TS]

00:20:18   because she wasn't talking about movies [TS]

00:20:21   anymore i was just talking about in my [TS]

00:20:23   personal life although i think it's a [TS]

00:20:24   terrific idea would you like to go [TS]

00:20:25   beyond kissing with me or just hurt just [TS]

00:20:29   yes you started kissing the back your [TS]

00:20:30   hand like I show you what i'm doing is [TS]

00:20:32   going back throughout my entire life and [TS]

00:20:34   inserting beyond kissing into every [TS]

00:20:37   instance where I've used the word sex [TS]

00:20:39   and I i like my life better now [TS]

00:20:42   mmm retro actively and i would love to [TS]

00:20:44   have some beyond kissing with he that is [TS]

00:20:47   how I'm going to remember my life I [TS]

00:20:48   would like to go back for a second into [TS]

00:20:50   this podcast and comment that the [TS]

00:20:52   earlier just a few moments ago you and I [TS]

00:20:54   both said you go ahead simultaneously [TS]

00:20:58   yeah and I don't think that's ever [TS]

00:20:59   happened before I think that was the [TS]

00:21:01   first time it happened probably three [TS]

00:21:02   times [TS]

00:21:02   no no really you go ahead I don't want [TS]

00:21:05   to interrupt your man interrupted by [TS]

00:21:07   nature and I try not to do that on this [TS]

00:21:08   show but i but I feel like I feel like [TS]

00:21:11   it's the first time we both ever said [TS]

00:21:13   you can get the same time you go ahead [TS]

00:21:16   no you go ahead but we didn't but it was [TS]

00:21:17   simultaneous yeah you go ahead we both [TS]

00:21:20   one of the other two go ahead and he had [TS]

00:21:23   jammed up in a revolving door if I [TS]

00:21:24   actually all boy and somebody shot us [TS]

00:21:26   both oh I still think about that every [TS]

00:21:28   time I go through my daughter of course [TS]

00:21:30   is a child she loves a revolving door [TS]

00:21:31   I don't like going through a revolving [TS]

00:21:32   door and wait for somebody to lock it up [TS]

00:21:34   and then i will ichi you know give it to [TS]

00:21:36   me this is but but you're screwing up [TS]

00:21:38   the kind climate control and all these [TS]

00:21:40   hotels and office buildings you open [TS]

00:21:42   that side door and the whole climate of [TS]

00:21:44   the building goes racing out like [TS]

00:21:46   like ghostbusters yeah all its just 70 [TS]

00:21:49   different climates all running out with [TS]

00:21:51   hot dogs in their mouths and then you [TS]

00:21:53   are you fucked it all up whereas if you [TS]

00:21:56   go through the revolving door it's just [TS]

00:21:58   one little climate little climate m.d do [TS]

00:22:02   you use a revolving door that seems [TS]

00:22:03   antithetical to a lot of your training [TS]

00:22:06   yeah the only time i actually use the [TS]

00:22:07   revolving doors if somebody's going [TS]

00:22:09   through ahead of me that I know and then [TS]

00:22:12   as the revolving doors halfway through I [TS]

00:22:13   stick my foot in it and then it stops on [TS]

00:22:15   the person slamming into the glass and [TS]

00:22:17   it's one of my favorite bags and I do it [TS]

00:22:19   all but I do it all the time and a lot [TS]

00:22:20   of my friends know I'm gonna do it but [TS]

00:22:22   then they forget because they get [TS]

00:22:23   excited about going through a revolving [TS]

00:22:24   shot everybody does their they see it [TS]

00:22:26   coming and they're like here we go [TS]

00:22:28   and then I gem my foot in it and make [TS]

00:22:31   slam into the class and it just like i [TS]

00:22:33   love it over and over and over that gag [TS]

00:22:35   works [TS]

00:22:36   do you renounce Satan and renown saying [TS]

00:22:40   WOW phone a lot of the times I'll slam [TS]

00:22:44   revolving door into them and then i'll [TS]

00:22:46   go around and go into the [TS]

00:22:47   going-to-the-sun happens or friends [TS]

00:22:51   always a little surprise around every [TS]

00:22:52   corner [TS]

00:22:53   that's right that is the kind of see [TS]

00:22:55   that's the kind of thing that's why [TS]

00:22:57   people call me an asshole [TS]

00:22:58   yeah but it doesn't really it's nothing [TS]

00:23:00   about that is bad LOL still survive that [TS]

00:23:04   they didn't do anything wrong it's no [TS]

00:23:06   it's me it's on it's on me but it's also [TS]

00:23:09   it's small and it's just putting a [TS]

00:23:11   little bit of joy into everybody's life [TS]

00:23:14   I think [TS]

00:23:14   yeah that's so nice you do that yeah [TS]

00:23:16   even the guy that's just like a [TS]

00:23:17   Beefeater who's standing outside hailing [TS]

00:23:19   cabs for you proof he uh he laughs too [TS]

00:23:23   and we all laugh a scene at all who that [TS]

00:23:26   guys seen it all anyway sorry interested [TS]

00:23:28   he's he's he's he's working for her [TS]

00:23:31   right next to a giant poster of himself [TS]

00:23:33   imagine that he's getting his idea of [TS]

00:23:35   getting dressed for work is so different [TS]

00:23:37   than my idea of getting dressed for work [TS]

00:23:39   better if we had the dresses beefeaters [TS]

00:23:41   every day he's dressed like a [TS]

00:23:43   revolutionary war a minute man and he's [TS]

00:23:47   helping kevin costner into into a little [TS]

00:23:50   bed-and-breakfast but he's going to [TS]

00:23:52   remember he's going to remember his face [TS]

00:23:54   and he's going to get walk around the [TS]

00:23:55   Pentagon trying to see him and kevin [TS]

00:23:58   costner is gonna be hiding [TS]

00:23:59   bathrooms it's this is part of this part [TS]

00:24:01   of the job huh yeah yeah ratings are [TS]

00:24:08   complicated complicated stuff you know [TS]

00:24:10   what's complicated [TS]

00:24:11   who was that I hate the segway I hate to [TS]

00:24:14   not stay also what I want to come back [TS]

00:24:16   to i might be taking some point go ahead [TS]

00:24:18   okay I hate to paint across the bridge [TS]

00:24:19   who but uh I have two dongles now 102 [TS]

00:24:26   dongles have two dogs i used to have I [TS]

00:24:28   step one key if you recall once upon a [TS]

00:24:32   time I had one key my life was simple [TS]

00:24:35   yeah and then i had more keys and then [TS]

00:24:37   more and then more and then i gotta donk [TS]

00:24:40   all I didn't want a dongle screwed up my [TS]

00:24:43   whole key ring [TS]

00:24:44   I've got to Donal's this is the this is [TS]

00:24:47   the direction we're going [TS]

00:24:49   one have a ring dongles no keys a dongle [TS]

00:24:53   dongle is it one of those it gives you a [TS]

00:24:56   pass code to get into something kind of [TS]

00:24:57   thing or is it like a giant car key [TS]

00:24:59   no no well so there are some car keys [TS]

00:25:02   like if you drive a nissan leaf or [TS]

00:25:03   something you have a dongle in your [TS]

00:25:06   pocket you don't have a small generator [TS]

00:25:08   on it is that what it is i think there's [TS]

00:25:10   many for the keys to be that big really [TS]

00:25:12   you never have to put it in the car [TS]

00:25:14   though you just sit in the car [TS]

00:25:15   it knows you're there it knows your key [TS]

00:25:17   is in the car and it starts the car ever [TS]

00:25:22   uh-huh right that's the the this is the [TS]

00:25:24   future [TS]

00:25:25   yes it because the thing is even though [TS]

00:25:28   after 40 years of computers for years of [TS]

00:25:30   personal computers we act my mom said [TS]

00:25:33   this to me the other day I know that [TS]

00:25:34   she's becoming more and more a character [TS]

00:25:36   on this podcast finally when she objects [TS]

00:25:39   to it because she feels like i miss up [TS]

00:25:41   miss representing her if I am is [TS]

00:25:44   representing her it is only that I'm not [TS]

00:25:47   describing how actually tough she is but [TS]

00:25:50   I was sitting on the camera is [TS]

00:25:51   impossibly tough that was reading some [TS]

00:25:53   scientific american or something and she [TS]

00:25:55   walks in and she says [TS]

00:25:56   did you know the computers have not [TS]

00:25:59   increased productivity one iota and I [TS]

00:26:03   looked up and was like huh [TS]

00:26:04   and she said it's true it takes did you [TS]

00:26:07   know that the dough and she said it [TS]

00:26:11   takes just as long to [TS]

00:26:12   do everything now as it did in nineteen [TS]

00:26:14   sixty-five the only thing the computers [TS]

00:26:17   have done is increase productivity in [TS]

00:26:20   things that are not important that only [TS]

00:26:22   exists to be computer things and so [TS]

00:26:24   there was no compare that we can't [TS]

00:26:26   compare to how long it took in 1965 [TS]

00:26:28   because we didn't have photoshop then [TS]

00:26:30   but in terms of like paying your [TS]

00:26:33   checkbook or some business practice she [TS]

00:26:36   was like I was in I was in I was doing [TS]

00:26:38   computers in business for 30 years and [TS]

00:26:40   at no point along the way did it ever [TS]

00:26:42   increase productivity one iota and it [TS]

00:26:45   still hasn't and I was like uh and i was [TS]

00:26:49   thinking and thinking about about [TS]

00:26:51   processes and realizing that i could not [TS]

00:26:55   refute what she said with anything and I [TS]

00:26:59   was like who [TS]

00:27:00   oh dear and she was like that she wasn't [TS]

00:27:03   referring directly to my dongle which [TS]

00:27:05   performs exactly what do you know the [TS]

00:27:08   function of a key accepted except it's [TS]

00:27:13   awkward it's more awkward than mickey [TS]

00:27:15   and i'm so lost right now [TS]

00:27:17   well what is the dongle do that is a key [TS]

00:27:20   except instead of putting it in a lock [TS]

00:27:22   you touch it to a pad and get a fob it's [TS]

00:27:25   a fob that's right i'm sorry of a dongle [TS]

00:27:27   and a father the same if one of their [TS]

00:27:30   stance your hats if somebody can tell me [TS]

00:27:32   that it was putting dongle and fob who [TS]

00:27:34   first of all it will be someone who [TS]

00:27:36   listens to the lobby i want to give a [TS]

00:27:38   fob I think of Ellicott near-field [TS]

00:27:39   communication kind of thing where it's [TS]

00:27:41   like you know what it is it's like [TS]

00:27:42   what's-his-name a detective yakamoto was [TS]

00:27:44   his name [TS]

00:27:45   oh yeah well let's let's just go let's [TS]

00:27:47   just go on to tekmoto yakamoto doing his [TS]

00:27:50   little disco dance to make the door open [TS]

00:27:52   right that's right he reaches up touches [TS]

00:27:55   it with his butt and some card in his [TS]

00:27:58   wallet says you know but instead of just [TS]

00:28:01   instead of maintaining his police like [TS]

00:28:03   dignity and sticking a key into a into a [TS]

00:28:07   keyhole 3-pointer with one with his ass [TS]

00:28:10   that's right how about a WoW and you [TS]

00:28:13   know yeah instead of putting it [TS]

00:28:14   instead of a locomotive going into a [TS]

00:28:16   train tunnel now we have some sort of [TS]

00:28:18   like a all that jazz moment [TS]

00:28:21   gato [TS]

00:28:22   and and then we're walking past a [TS]

00:28:25   recumbent bicycle yet and when they were [TS]

00:28:27   come a bicycle is a classic example I'm [TS]

00:28:30   not well and he's a map right now I'm so [TS]

00:28:34   so what she was trying to tell me that [TS]

00:28:37   that throughout her entire career and [TS]

00:28:39   computers you know they would publish [TS]

00:28:41   computer computer talk in magazines [TS]

00:28:44   probably called computer talk where they [TS]

00:28:47   would where they would editorialize and [TS]

00:28:50   say still this 1979 or something still [TS]

00:28:53   after all this investment in computers [TS]

00:28:54   we have not improved productivity one [TS]

00:28:56   bit [TS]

00:28:57   or rather one iota and that was to all [TS]

00:29:00   the way through 19 me because it me or [TS]

00:29:03   is there a bit how many iotas can dance [TS]

00:29:05   on the head of a pin [TS]

00:29:06   how many iotas convenience inside of a [TS]

00:29:09   police evidence he got six iotas in a [TS]

00:29:12   moment but there's 12 moments in a bit [TS]

00:29:15   uh-huh anything like 75 bits in a [TS]

00:29:17   megabyte right it's like bass bass 1024 [TS]

00:29:20   basically that and you know and then [TS]

00:29:22   Robert's Rules of Order comes into [TS]

00:29:23   effect but personal probably but I said [TS]

00:29:26   to her if the these magazines were [TS]

00:29:29   reporting this stuff a wide in the [TS]

00:29:31   general population rebell or say what's [TS]

00:29:34   going on with these things and she said [TS]

00:29:36   at that time unlike now nobody read [TS]

00:29:40   computer magazines except computer [TS]

00:29:42   people and computer people at the time [TS]

00:29:45   were unwilling to were unwilling to look [TS]

00:29:49   critically at computers because it was [TS]

00:29:51   there it was it was there happy place [TS]

00:29:53   but we would read these things ago wow [TS]

00:29:55   it hasn't improved productivity one bit [TS]

00:29:57   well it certainly will begin to do so [TS]

00:29:59   right now soon and then it never did and [TS]

00:30:04   you know she's talking about what I like [TS]

00:30:07   to talk about all the time which is that [TS]

00:30:10   we built the Saturn five rocket using [TS]

00:30:12   pipe benders and slide rules and we have [TS]

00:30:16   yet to best you know we cheap we keep [TS]

00:30:19   building rockets and keep exploding on [TS]

00:30:21   the back of the aircraft carrier right [TS]

00:30:22   is no like the slide rule argument or no [TS]

00:30:26   not even well i don't know i wouldn't [TS]

00:30:29   call the slide rule argument I would [TS]

00:30:30   call it the balance your checkbook [TS]

00:30:32   argument which is that at the end of the [TS]

00:30:35   month you sit down with your [TS]

00:30:36   check register and you balance it with a [TS]

00:30:38   pen as opposed to booting up your check [TS]

00:30:42   balancing software and looking at all [TS]

00:30:44   the pie charts that generates but it [TS]

00:30:46   takes the same amount of time and has [TS]

00:30:49   the same effect on the counter [TS]

00:30:52   mm ok that's ok alright well just offer [TS]

00:30:56   this quote from Upton Sinclair that i'm [TS]

00:30:57   always quoting I want to get it right [TS]

00:30:58   it's difficult to get a man to [TS]

00:31:00   understand something when his salary [TS]

00:31:02   depends upon his not understanding it [TS]

00:31:04   that's kind of what you're describing [TS]

00:31:05   right are some ways if you're if you're [TS]

00:31:08   a computer jockey you're not gonna look [TS]

00:31:09   for instances where the computer stuff [TS]

00:31:11   is is not the best way [TS]

00:31:12   absolutely yeah i think that up but [TS]

00:31:14   would you describe that as a counter or [TS]

00:31:16   as a no I'm just I'm just doing that to [TS]

00:31:17   kind of calm me down a little here's my [TS]

00:31:18   counter like my counter is that it [TS]

00:31:21   depends on what you talk about being [TS]

00:31:22   productive about because the the massive [TS]

00:31:24   change we see little changes in our life [TS]

00:31:27   works as people who are on desktop and [TS]

00:31:29   laptop in mobile computers the thing [TS]

00:31:31   that's that's not in our face every day [TS]

00:31:33   in that same way is that we are allowed [TS]

00:31:36   to be productive or not productive about [TS]

00:31:38   very different kinds of work because in [TS]

00:31:40   a way i will very loosely described as [TS]

00:31:42   behind-the-scenes there's a lot of stuff [TS]

00:31:44   being done by machines and computers [TS]

00:31:45   that are actually making things much [TS]

00:31:47   more efficient I mean I got you [TS]

00:31:49   something like agriculture agriculture [TS]

00:31:50   like what you're able to do with [TS]

00:31:52   agriculture is it you know at scale is [TS]

00:31:55   so huge now that infrastructure has [TS]

00:31:58   developed beyond like you know being [TS]

00:32:00   able to just get things locally or [TS]

00:32:01   whatever but but I feel like I mean [TS]

00:32:05   certainly at the level of crunching [TS]

00:32:08   numbers of like crunching prime numbers [TS]

00:32:11   computers are doing them allowing us to [TS]

00:32:15   do that in a much larger scale and that [TS]

00:32:18   is producing something that that there [TS]

00:32:21   are a lot of people are going to a lot [TS]

00:32:23   of people are going to describe the [TS]

00:32:24   tangible effect of that uh huh uh in [TS]

00:32:27   terms of for instance like cryptologist [TS]

00:32:30   but that encryption is all now newly [TS]

00:32:36   necessary because computers almost [TS]

00:32:39   creating new need for new technology [TS]

00:32:41   that's right that the technology is [TS]

00:32:43   fulfilling the need which is it's like [TS]

00:32:44   my dad when I took his car away and he [TS]

00:32:48   was like I need my car [TS]

00:32:49   why he said to go to the mechanic yeah [TS]

00:32:51   so a lot of that stuff is just like I [TS]

00:32:55   think that mostly most of the [TS]

00:32:57   agriculture productivity as a result of [TS]

00:33:00   Monsanto count you know like gene [TS]

00:33:05   manipulation and it's produced a [TS]

00:33:07   monoculture so we have so it isn't [TS]

00:33:11   actually an improvement it's just a it [TS]

00:33:13   is a streamlining of a thing that we go [TS]

00:33:16   but we didn't want [TS]

00:33:17   well I think it's different if i could [TS]

00:33:19   say i think it's different to argue [TS]

00:33:21   whether it's an improvement [TS]

00:33:22   rather than again the in the aggregate [TS]

00:33:25   is all that make the world better i [TS]

00:33:26   don't know what I'm trying to say is [TS]

00:33:27   that like it seems like in the [TS]

00:33:29   inexorable march of technology the thing [TS]

00:33:31   that is fairly consistent is that as [TS]

00:33:33   soon as it's less expensive and more [TS]

00:33:37   reliable to have a machine do something [TS]

00:33:40   the machine will do that which then [TS]

00:33:42   necessarily change the nature of what an [TS]

00:33:44   actual person does and so you can even [TS]

00:33:47   look at the last 30 40 years and how [TS]

00:33:49   there was a time when you need people [TS]

00:33:51   who did things called word processing or [TS]

00:33:53   data entry that was a kind of job and [TS]

00:33:55   now there are machines that do that kind [TS]

00:33:57   of stuff better faster more efficiently [TS]

00:34:00   and less costly so even though that was [TS]

00:34:02   considered a technology jobs 30 years [TS]

00:34:04   ago [TS]

00:34:04   it's not anymore because now that job is [TS]

00:34:07   being done by the technology itself [TS]

00:34:08   right necessarily changes what it is [TS]

00:34:10   that we're doing on our computers [TS]

00:34:12   yes it does but what what I'm saying is [TS]

00:34:14   that that behind word processing behind [TS]

00:34:17   the Machine taking over word processing [TS]

00:34:20   rock processing those are just those are [TS]

00:34:24   just ways of processing what Holt what [TS]

00:34:26   we formerly did with the with [TS]

00:34:29   typewriters on you know on what is that [TS]

00:34:33   stuff called the where you type into a [TS]

00:34:36   piece of black paper and it makes three [TS]

00:34:38   copies of copies carbon copies [TS]

00:34:41   oh yeah but ultimately all that [TS]

00:34:43   technology including the typewriters in [TS]

00:34:45   the carbon copies is meant to process [TS]

00:34:48   your insurance claim you know like all [TS]

00:34:51   of that is his ways of doing things [TS]

00:34:53   which have which have more or less [TS]

00:34:55   remained constant process your insurance [TS]

00:34:57   claim to fill out your mortgage [TS]

00:34:59   documents and that ultimately the the [TS]

00:35:03   the end result the processing of the [TS]

00:35:05   insurance the filling out the mortgage [TS]

00:35:07   documents still takes as much time as it [TS]

00:35:10   once did when it was done in longhand it [TS]

00:35:14   just now involves a lot more people and [TS]

00:35:16   a lot more process and a lot more layers [TS]

00:35:20   of technology but the butt but the [TS]

00:35:22   actual stuff that's getting done hasn't [TS]

00:35:25   changed really [TS]

00:35:27   uh-huh and takes just as long and I know [TS]

00:35:30   that right now it the the real question [TS]

00:35:33   is how many John Syracuse's are dancing [TS]

00:35:35   on the head of a pin trying to refute [TS]

00:35:37   this argument yelling at his TV screen [TS]

00:35:39   huh but in but but i believe began and [TS]

00:35:42   the ultimate proof in the of it is the [TS]

00:35:44   fact that we have not know not only have [TS]

00:35:49   we not reduce the 40-hour workweek to 20 [TS]

00:35:51   hours but we have increased the 40-hour [TS]

00:35:53   workweek to 60 hours and we have a lot [TS]

00:35:57   more people working longer and we [TS]

00:36:01   haven't we have not accomplished a a [TS]

00:36:03   world in which machines are doing our [TS]

00:36:04   work we've just added multiple multiple [TS]

00:36:08   layers of you know of of action and it [TS]

00:36:14   still takes I mean I don't know when the [TS]

00:36:15   last time you filled out mortgage papers [TS]

00:36:17   were Oh God in heaven i put it's like I [TS]

00:36:20   feel like I feel like when you when you [TS]

00:36:22   got a mortgage in 1920 it took less time [TS]

00:36:25   huh [TS]

00:36:27   so anyway that's just isn't getting what [TS]

00:36:31   i'm gonna get so many angry letters [TS]

00:36:32   well yeah you probably should pick up [TS]

00:36:36   but I am I don't see your but we really [TS]

00:36:40   kind of talking about quality of life in [TS]

00:36:42   some ways [TS]

00:36:42   well I'm talking about why why do we [TS]

00:36:45   have computers and machines and what is [TS]

00:36:46   their actual purpose and what we keep [TS]

00:36:49   doing is applying them to things [TS]

00:36:50   applying them to with the idea that we [TS]

00:36:54   are streamlining our processes so that [TS]

00:36:57   we can have all this extra free time to [TS]

00:36:59   do to make carton and sit on the beach [TS]

00:37:01   and the computers have yet to prove that [TS]

00:37:04   they can do those things actually better [TS]

00:37:07   i mean you can you can you can buy a [TS]

00:37:10   home tax filling out computer program [TS]

00:37:14   and you can input all your data [TS]

00:37:17   to it and you can learn how to use it [TS]

00:37:19   and herpa derpa derp but at the end of [TS]

00:37:21   the day it takes just as long to do your [TS]

00:37:23   taxes that as it did in nineteen fifty [TS]

00:37:25   and so why have you put in [TS]

00:37:27   why have you bothered ok alright um and [TS]

00:37:30   and at the other end yes computers are [TS]

00:37:33   processing prime numbers and and [TS]

00:37:36   sequencing genomes and those do have an [TS]

00:37:40   effect on science and they are pushing [TS]

00:37:43   the envelope forward but and but we [TS]

00:37:46   don't reserve computers just to do that [TS]

00:37:48   work we we spend most of our energy and [TS]

00:37:51   most of our time trying to apply [TS]

00:37:53   computers to like newspaper layouts and [TS]

00:37:57   doing it on the computer [TS]

00:37:59   eat your your your bamboozled into [TS]

00:38:03   thinking that it's easier and better and [TS]

00:38:05   faster and and so forth but it actually [TS]

00:38:07   just takes as much time as when we used [TS]

00:38:10   to put stickam glue down on a on a crazy [TS]

00:38:14   traffic and the end result is [TS]

00:38:17   questionably better you know all the [TS]

00:38:21   time we talked about kerning kerning [TS]

00:38:23   kerning and you know and we used to do [TS]

00:38:28   that by hand but it was it was better it [TS]

00:38:31   was prettier and it was closer to the [TS]

00:38:34   closer to the truth of really never been [TS]

00:38:37   easier to email you about this [TS]

00:38:39   ha ha ha technology has made it so easy [TS]

00:38:42   for people to email you about they're [TS]

00:38:44   going to i'm gonna get so many angry [TS]

00:38:46   emails from people who are barely on the [TS]

00:38:49   spectrum [TS]

00:38:50   oh dear um ok so let me ask you this is [TS]

00:38:53   there a time and era where you feel like [TS]

00:38:56   it was in the sweet spot for like on the [TS]

00:38:58   one hand it's nice that food doesn't [TS]

00:39:00   make a sick anymore [TS]

00:39:02   on the other hand we don't want devices [TS]

00:39:04   in our house listening to us to create [TS]

00:39:06   ads that are appropriate somewhere in [TS]

00:39:09   between what you think this sweet spot [TS]

00:39:10   was really think technology was put to [TS]

00:39:12   good use but not too much good news i [TS]

00:39:14   want to go back to the to your claim [TS]

00:39:16   that food formerly made us sick and now [TS]

00:39:18   computers have made it so that food [TS]

00:39:19   doesn't make us it's not computers its [TS]

00:39:21   technology this is the problem is that [TS]

00:39:22   go in a world where we think all [TS]

00:39:24   technology is about new apps the [TS]

00:39:26   interest income [TS]

00:39:27   the problem is that so much of the [TS]

00:39:28   reporting about what we need [TS]

00:39:30   alcohol technology is really about [TS]

00:39:33   consumer-facing devices so it's easy to [TS]

00:39:36   make a strong man about technology when [TS]

00:39:37   you talk about samsung samsung having a [TS]

00:39:39   refrigerator with a large screen on it [TS]

00:39:41   like yeah okay yeah I get that silly but [TS]

00:39:43   couple things is the first of all [TS]

00:39:45   there's all kinds of Technology [TS]

00:39:46   happening behind the scenes to make life [TS]

00:39:49   easier and safe and reliable and less [TS]

00:39:52   costly but then on the other hand i also [TS]

00:39:54   i've learned to become reluctant about [TS]

00:39:56   drawing too many conclusions about a [TS]

00:39:57   feature that I can't understand where [TS]

00:39:59   something that right now seems like an [TS]

00:40:01   inconvenience or a silly thing to me [TS]

00:40:03   within five years might be something [TS]

00:40:05   that's that's a pretty big deal but I'm [TS]

00:40:06   really you know glad is there [TS]

00:40:08   yeah but i'm not talking about the [TS]

00:40:09   future i'm talking about the now and [TS]

00:40:11   that whatever with my marbles and now is [TS]

00:40:13   the beginning of the future that's [TS]

00:40:14   that's how it works well I know in my [TS]

00:40:15   moms but my mom is saying that that has [TS]

00:40:17   been the conversation since nineteen [TS]

00:40:19   sixty-five that in five years were going [TS]

00:40:22   to have a paperless office in five years [TS]

00:40:24   you're not going to have to do your [TS]

00:40:25   taxes in five years were going to be [TS]

00:40:27   able to you know she said the amazing [TS]

00:40:29   thing was in 1965 they said in five [TS]

00:40:32   years there won't be computer [TS]

00:40:33   programmers because all that will be [TS]

00:40:35   automated right and then in nineteen [TS]

00:40:37   seventy they said in five years there [TS]

00:40:39   won't be computer programmers and [TS]

00:40:40   they've been saying that every five [TS]

00:40:41   years for the last 40 years and now we [TS]

00:40:44   have more computer programmers than ever [TS]

00:40:45   and there's more things to program about [TS]

00:40:48   right which is a lot of how to do your [TS]

00:40:51   tax software but i but i want to know [TS]

00:40:53   that's not accurate and I want to know [TS]

00:40:55   exactly how computers have made food [TS]

00:40:58   safer on or how technology Nazi i iu and [TS]

00:41:03   i i am not prepared to debate this [TS]

00:41:05   because i haven't had time to prepare [TS]

00:41:06   for this but i'm trying to think of [TS]

00:41:08   things I think of things like along the [TS]

00:41:10   lines of maybe having to do with with [TS]

00:41:14   things like being able to do quality [TS]

00:41:16   control on various kinds of foods or I'm [TS]

00:41:19   thinking about things like being able to [TS]

00:41:20   track epidemiology being able to track [TS]

00:41:22   things like diseases that go around you [TS]

00:41:26   know all the way down to like people in [TS]

00:41:28   Africa being able to have the beginnings [TS]

00:41:31   of trade based on SMS and things like [TS]

00:41:34   that there's all kinds of ways in which [TS]

00:41:35   technology gets used in a novel way in a [TS]

00:41:39   small way or in a scalable way in a big [TS]

00:41:42   way that end up improving our life and [TS]

00:41:44   the thing is I think the fallacies to [TS]

00:41:45   think that any given new technology is [TS]

00:41:47   going to fix the world [TS]

00:41:48   it's not it's just going to be the next [TS]

00:41:50   technology that we didn't make a [TS]

00:41:51   decision what to do with which I guess [TS]

00:41:53   I'm saying for the last 40 years we have [TS]

00:41:55   been tracking that and then any kind of [TS]

00:41:57   like I think the food safety stuff that [TS]

00:41:59   you're saying the computers have made it [TS]

00:42:01   much easier to import strawberries from [TS]

00:42:04   New Zealand which is a thing that [TS]

00:42:07   computers made it necessary to do in a [TS]

00:42:11   way you know like with or like computers [TS]

00:42:15   invented into importing strawberries [TS]

00:42:17   from New Zealand in away let's just say [TS]

00:42:19   technology did yeah we now have the [TS]

00:42:21   technology to have strawberries all year [TS]

00:42:22   round and that's the that's kind of the [TS]

00:42:26   amazing thing we didn't use to have [TS]

00:42:27   strawberries all year round [TS]

00:42:29   now we do and and that is I guess the i [TS]

00:42:34   guess the the thing that I notice that's [TS]

00:42:37   that actually is an improvement right [TS]

00:42:40   there was a time when you go to the [TS]

00:42:41   grocery store in the winter and all i [TS]

00:42:43   had was root vegetables and [TS]

00:42:44   chocolate-covered grasshoppers [TS]

00:42:46   uh-huh except the grasshoppers want [TS]

00:42:50   chocolate covered but now we have them [TS]

00:42:52   and those things have created a whole [TS]

00:42:55   new host of problems and you know and so [TS]

00:42:58   now we have to use technology to to [TS]

00:43:02   facilitate these processes processes [TS]

00:43:04   that you know that it's like we created [TS]

00:43:08   problems and now our man now are solving [TS]

00:43:11   my guess that is the march of technology [TS]

00:43:13   especially if you take technology to [TS]

00:43:15   mean again and that where technology is [TS]

00:43:18   uh can be kind of thorny you and [TS]

00:43:23   introduce technology into this [TS]

00:43:24   conversation i was saying computers and [TS]

00:43:27   final challenge the computers [TS]

00:43:28   oh ok alright fair enough yeah cuz I [TS]

00:43:30   mean like it is a better plow because [TS]

00:43:33   I'm to understand what you're saying [TS]

00:43:34   it's happened not just sound like an old [TS]

00:43:36   man thing is but it sounds like you're [TS]

00:43:38   saying that we will you tell me but it [TS]

00:43:40   sounds like you're saying that what [TS]

00:43:42   widespread availability of computing [TS]

00:43:45   means is just the need for more [TS]

00:43:47   computing well no I'm saying show me [TS]

00:43:50   where quality of life has improved in [TS]

00:43:52   the last 50 years that where you can [TS]

00:43:55   directly tie it to him [TS]

00:43:57   movements and technology rather like [TS]

00:44:00   every time I do that though you didn't [TS]

00:44:01   turn that into a thing where you're just [TS]

00:44:03   to show how that's really about [TS]

00:44:04   computers but i think there are there [TS]

00:44:07   are no I mean that's what that's what it [TS]

00:44:09   seems like I mean I i don't i don't know [TS]

00:44:11   i don't i guess I guess what I'm trying [TS]

00:44:13   to figure out is like when was there a [TS]

00:44:15   time when this was ever any different [TS]

00:44:17   well if it's not sure I fully understand [TS]

00:44:20   what your point is if i do though it's [TS]

00:44:21   it's that there's something has changed [TS]

00:44:23   in the last 40 50 years i guess i would [TS]

00:44:26   say at the turn of the at the turn of [TS]

00:44:28   the 18th to the 19th century we had an [TS]

00:44:30   explosion of technology that where we [TS]

00:44:32   have the electric light bulb we had the [TS]

00:44:34   look you know certainly we already have [TS]

00:44:36   the locomotive but we have the motorcar [TS]

00:44:38   we have the airplane and so throughout [TS]

00:44:42   the throughout the 18th century [TS]

00:44:44   developed the steam engine ships no [TS]

00:44:46   longer had sales and that was a [TS]

00:44:49   fantastic march of progress you know my [TS]

00:44:53   mom remembers the first time she saw [TS]

00:44:55   tractor food because before that they [TS]

00:44:58   were plowing with horses [TS]

00:44:59   really that was like in her lifetime it [TS]

00:45:01   well i'm getting even where she lived [TS]

00:45:03   there were already lots of tractors but [TS]

00:45:05   but it that you know they weren't they [TS]

00:45:07   were expensive and so they were plowing [TS]

00:45:10   her 40 acres with horses and then they [TS]

00:45:12   got a tractor and a combine or combine [TS]

00:45:15   attachment to a tractor but still the [TS]

00:45:17   the cart where the grain was going was [TS]

00:45:21   pulled by horses and that was pulled by [TS]

00:45:22   horses into the late forties so those [TS]

00:45:27   are real real like technologies that [TS]

00:45:30   that changed everybody's life but but we [TS]

00:45:34   are looking at the last 40 years and i [TS]

00:45:38   think the other the actual way we're [TS]

00:45:42   living in 2015 2016 compared to how we [TS]

00:45:47   were living in 1966 hasn't really [TS]

00:45:49   changed where basically flying the same [TS]

00:45:51   airplanes we are driving the same cars [TS]

00:45:55   for all intensive purposes and filling [TS]

00:45:58   out our taxes and voting and and we have [TS]

00:46:03   not and we like to think that this has [TS]

00:46:05   been a comparable revolution [TS]

00:46:08   but a lot more of it is just spinning [TS]

00:46:13   our wheels like with like because in [TS]

00:46:16   1966 the perception of where we would be [TS]

00:46:19   in 2016 was just as you're saying like [TS]

00:46:23   wow five years from now it's the future [TS]

00:46:25   and a lot of the things that hg wells [TS]

00:46:29   talked about actually came true [TS]

00:46:31   the the physical like new technology [TS]

00:46:36   actually was became real and was [TS]

00:46:40   astonishing and from 1966 to the present [TS]

00:46:46   we haven't things are very different [TS]

00:46:50   we're doing very different things people [TS]

00:46:52   aren't sitting in and and typing on [TS]

00:46:54   carbon copy they are moving stuff around [TS]

00:46:56   with a mouse but the output is still you [TS]

00:47:02   know that the the newspaper on the on [TS]

00:47:04   the TV isn't actually much of a it's [TS]

00:47:10   it's not a major change relative to it [TS]

00:47:14   to a newspaper we still read newspapers [TS]

00:47:15   not all right but uh but you know the [TS]

00:47:19   information contained in it is more or [TS]

00:47:22   less identical and I think that is [TS]

00:47:24   consumer-facing stuff that i guess i'm [TS]

00:47:26   thinking more about things that I don't [TS]

00:47:27   understand infrastructure where I guess [TS]

00:47:29   I might get would be that there are [TS]

00:47:31   things in the infrastructure that [TS]

00:47:34   technology is making things better and [TS]

00:47:36   safer [TS]

00:47:37   poop poop moves down tubes who and [TS]

00:47:40   before poop was moving down tubes and [TS]

00:47:42   and guys in overalls were like well i [TS]

00:47:44   think probably we got a clogged up there [TS]

00:47:46   at the head headwaters and then they go [TS]

00:47:48   up with shovels in a steam engine and [TS]

00:47:50   dig it out but now we've got somebody [TS]

00:47:52   sitting in a dark room looking at a [TS]

00:47:54   thousand different poop lines and saying [TS]

00:47:58   like yep the poop is clogged up at the [TS]

00:48:00   headwaters and it's it is now [TS]

00:48:03   computerized and it is it is better [TS]

00:48:07   right but not as dramatically as we as [TS]

00:48:11   we think not as we have but I don't the [TS]

00:48:14   poop still goes down to ya but part of [TS]

00:48:17   that is also that's just the nature of I [TS]

00:48:19   feel like that's part of that is just [TS]

00:48:20   the nature of [TS]

00:48:21   how changing technology works where [TS]

00:48:24   except in 90 in the early nineteen [TS]

00:48:26   hundreds poop went from being buried in [TS]

00:48:29   pitts to going down tubes that was the [TS]

00:48:31   english thrown out a window or being [TS]

00:48:33   thrown out of a window which is why the [TS]

00:48:35   man walked on the edge of the sidewalk [TS]

00:48:36   and through his coat down into the [TS]

00:48:38   puddle [TS]

00:48:39   yes so that was the that was the major [TS]

00:48:43   advance now now we have a sewer but [TS]

00:48:46   computerizing the the process of poop [TS]

00:48:50   going down tubes hasn't really changed [TS]

00:48:51   at changed it [TS]

00:48:54   it's still a 19th century technology [TS]

00:48:56   just has sensors in it now [TS]

00:48:58   hmm so I I don't you know I don't want [TS]

00:49:01   to like go down a list of a thousand [TS]

00:49:03   examples and you have thousands of my [TS]

00:49:06   challenge with this is that is that I [TS]

00:49:08   don't know enough about actual [TS]

00:49:10   technology to be able to describe these [TS]

00:49:12   things except by analogy whereas I I [TS]

00:49:15   could join you [TS]

00:49:16   pretty easily in finding things that are [TS]

00:49:19   exceptions or problems from these [TS]

00:49:21   technologies that don't require [TS]

00:49:22   technical background i just i I'm a bad [TS]

00:49:24   person argue about this with because I [TS]

00:49:25   just don't know enough about how it [TS]

00:49:26   actually works but again I bet they were [TS]

00:49:28   you know there are certain there's [TS]

00:49:29   enough anecdotes about saying well now [TS]

00:49:31   trains are going too fast and pregnant [TS]

00:49:33   women shouldn't write on them which is [TS]

00:49:35   not true but that's the kind of thing [TS]

00:49:36   that they would say you could say yeah [TS]

00:49:38   we made these we made these plans but [TS]

00:49:40   you know hey you know those first planes [TS]

00:49:41   that they sent into war were not that [TS]

00:49:43   reliable and they're used to kill people [TS]

00:49:45   so she's not making planes [TS]

00:49:46   it's just that you know for every [TS]

00:49:47   example there's something that we [TS]

00:49:49   learned and maybe at this point maybe [TS]

00:49:51   I'm just being a little bit [TS]

00:49:52   was that English guy yeah I mean I'm not [TS]

00:49:54   saying that we should stop because I I [TS]

00:49:56   feel like that I feel like we've talked [TS]

00:49:58   about this quite a bit [TS]

00:50:00   we are on the cusp of a big revolution [TS]

00:50:03   like when when self-driving cars and I [TS]

00:50:06   hate to keep bringing them up but so I [TS]

00:50:09   not really thats not driving i think [TS]

00:50:10   it's i think it's fascinating personally [TS]

00:50:12   I couldn't care less a year ago and now [TS]

00:50:13   i'm really interested [TS]

00:50:14   yeah when those are happening that will [TS]

00:50:18   be the thing that I go there [TS]

00:50:20   there it is that is an absolutely new [TS]

00:50:22   thing that could not be accomplished [TS]

00:50:24   without computers it is a major advance [TS]

00:50:26   and it changes everyone's life dramatic [TS]

00:50:30   right that will be the first sign that i [TS]

00:50:33   have seen that the computer revolution [TS]

00:50:35   of the late 20th century the last 50 [TS]

00:50:37   years of gearing up and getting [TS]

00:50:40   everybody so that they understand this [TS]

00:50:42   and increasing processing power to be [TS]

00:50:45   able to revolutionize transportation in [TS]

00:50:48   that way I'll go yes absolutely but you [TS]

00:50:51   know the the the jet airplane was [TS]

00:50:54   invented in the forties and by the [TS]

00:50:56   fifties we had a 707 that was you know [TS]

00:51:01   and what we've done in making the 787 is [TS]

00:51:05   make that much incremental e more [TS]

00:51:08   efficient but still it's essentially the [TS]

00:51:11   same thing and and everyone at you know [TS]

00:51:15   like in the nineteen fifties office we [TS]

00:51:17   were accomplishing a tremendous amount [TS]

00:51:20   of paper pushing and we are still [TS]

00:51:21   pushing those papers now they just [TS]

00:51:24   they're just electric papers but like [TS]

00:51:27   yeah we're pushing electric papers but [TS]

00:51:30   now now with with the with these systems [TS]

00:51:33   coming online that's going to be [TS]

00:51:36   tremendous and I feel like you know [TS]

00:51:39   twitter is kind of a kind of a like a [TS]

00:51:43   glimpse of the future but it is but you [TS]

00:51:46   know it's like it is it is something new [TS]

00:51:50   right something that didn't exist before [TS]

00:51:53   that's that gives a glimpse of what what [TS]

00:51:56   society how society is going to be [TS]

00:51:59   different but but I but I'm just saying [TS]

00:52:02   that I feel like the last 40 years has [TS]

00:52:05   just been just been changing the tools [TS]

00:52:10   and and maybe it's equivalent to the [TS]

00:52:13   years between 1830 and 1880 where you [TS]

00:52:17   know we're building these creaky weird [TS]

00:52:20   little railroads and and steam engines [TS]

00:52:23   whir whir increasing productivity and [TS]

00:52:27   and creating cities but it wasn't clear [TS]

00:52:30   what that was going to be like and then [TS]

00:52:31   all of a sudden in 1880 there was an [TS]

00:52:34   explosion of that technology and we also [TS]

00:52:37   had cities now [TS]

00:52:39   that were like a long-term product of [TS]

00:52:43   the steam engine but it wasn't clear [TS]

00:52:46   what those were going to be so now we [TS]

00:52:48   had cities we have to solve city [TS]

00:52:50   problems the steam engine was great for [TS]

00:52:52   that but then it did you know it did [TS]

00:52:54   change our lives or the internal [TS]

00:52:57   combustion engine you know changed our [TS]

00:52:58   lives and that's about to happen and I'm [TS]

00:53:02   excited about it is what it is what [TS]

00:53:04   technology is is enabling us to do and [TS]

00:53:06   and now we're going to see what it is [TS]

00:53:09   but like up to [TS]

00:53:11   we've been in a train our whole lives [TS]

00:53:13   we've been in this kind of interesting [TS]

00:53:16   item where it's you know where we've [TS]

00:53:19   kind of just been we've been taking all [TS]

00:53:23   those boxes of legal papers up in the [TS]

00:53:24   attic and we've been in putting them [TS]

00:53:26   into the machines and and you know and [TS]

00:53:31   we're on the cusp i guess but what my [TS]

00:53:33   mom was saying was it was kind of proof [TS]

00:53:35   of that which is that we've been putting [TS]

00:53:38   everything into computers all this time [TS]

00:53:40   and it really hasn't increased [TS]

00:53:41   productivity one [TS]

00:53:43   say it with me eyota MN not even not [TS]

00:53:48   even a partial bit not even an iota [TS]

00:53:50   which is very small amount of iota right [TS]

00:53:53   because it's iotas all the way down [TS]

00:53:55   uh-huh anyway a right to me at John [TS]

00:53:59   rajan dot Roderick and dot com [TS]

00:54:02   oh dear and send me all the all of the [TS]

00:54:06   ways in which that what I've just what [TS]

00:54:09   I've just said is not true [TS]

00:54:10   mm-hmm mean we're talking about [TS]

00:54:21   billionaires no long [TS]

00:54:24   Wow [TS]

00:54:25   uh I wanted to like Moby Dick I found [TS]

00:54:29   moby-dick impenetrable as a [TS]

00:54:31   eight-year-old and so I thought when I [TS]

00:54:34   was a twenty-year-old that I would read [TS]

00:54:35   it again and understand it and you know [TS]

00:54:38   I'm an enormous melville fan above the [TS]

00:54:41   other hand of his works well I had to [TS]

00:54:45   read it in college and I had a class [TS]

00:54:48   called American masterworks one semester [TS]

00:54:51   and we read Absalom Absalom Moby Dick [TS]

00:54:56   and the ambassadors and I liked Absalom [TS]

00:55:00   Absalom alive but maybe not so much the [TS]

00:55:03   others but I got through me because I [TS]

00:55:04   kept telling myself it was postmodern [TS]

00:55:06   that like it's up there with the [TS]

00:55:07   electric Chandi it's like one of the [TS]

00:55:09   original post modern books what I kept [TS]

00:55:11   telling myself even though I never [TS]

00:55:13   completely understood that phrase meant [TS]

00:55:14   and it didn't actually helped make the [TS]

00:55:15   book that much more interesting [TS]

00:55:17   mhm I i preferred joseph conrad in every [TS]

00:55:21   in every respect but yeah I didn't and [TS]

00:55:25   you know I read tale of two cities again [TS]

00:55:27   and I didn't like it either but [TS]

00:55:30   obviously the worst of all those books [TS]

00:55:32   is Billy Budd Billy but it's herman [TS]

00:55:34   melville to write in billyburg silly but [TS]

00:55:37   that's all that's another one is on a [TS]

00:55:39   ship right yeah unreadable unreadable I [TS]

00:55:41   you know here's the thing is that i was [TS]

00:55:44   i was a good reader i was a big reader i [TS]

00:55:46   read a lot but it but there was a thing [TS]

00:55:50   that happened you can think about stuff [TS]

00:55:52   I classics Illustrated there was [TS]

00:55:53   definitely like a push in the sixties [TS]

00:55:55   and seventies to get kids to want to [TS]

00:55:57   read real books because it wasn't enough [TS]

00:55:59   obviously you should never read a comic [TS]

00:56:01   book that's gonna write your mind you [TS]

00:56:02   know you don't get only read so much [TS]

00:56:03   Henry Huggins before you become a [TS]

00:56:05   Dollard encyclopedia brown sure you know [TS]

00:56:08   you how you gonna get really smart [TS]

00:56:09   unless you read these big thick European [TS]

00:56:11   books well with Henry Huggins oh Henry [TS]

00:56:13   Huggins that boy you know with Ramona [TS]

00:56:15   Quimby and his dog ritzy there was very [TS]

00:56:19   readable Judy solve crimes that per se [TS]

00:56:22   not per se it's just you're pretty much [TS]

00:56:24   straightforward kind of kids book you [TS]

00:56:26   know for like their fourth grader like [TS]

00:56:28   encyclopedia brown or that love [TS]

00:56:30   encyclopedia my daughter and I we had [TS]

00:56:31   enough encyclopedia brown face now the [TS]

00:56:33   problem cyclopedia brown you get any [TS]

00:56:35   collection encyclopedia brown stories [TS]

00:56:38   and a couple of them are really really [TS]

00:56:41   good [TS]

00:56:42   we're like I didn't see that coming or [TS]

00:56:43   that was really smart I've read some of [TS]

00:56:45   my daughter couple times we read through [TS]

00:56:46   we try to look for the clue [TS]

00:56:48   there's usually a couple of those in [TS]

00:56:49   every collection that are actually [TS]

00:56:51   really good detective stories and the [TS]

00:56:53   rest are terrible and they're not [TS]

00:56:55   terrible [TS]

00:56:56   the one some of them are terrible [TS]

00:56:57   because they're obvious ones that are [TS]

00:56:59   really terrible are where the the the [TS]

00:57:02   trick just doesn't make any sense [TS]

00:57:04   there was one there was one that was [TS]

00:57:05   about how could you tell that like he [TS]

00:57:08   didn't actually lose this karate fight [TS]

00:57:11   it's because he filled felt backwards [TS]

00:57:13   instead of forwards and stuff like that [TS]

00:57:14   one that was a good trick [TS]

00:57:18   now the guy who who put his kid on the [TS]

00:57:20   hood of the car that sure the hood [TS]

00:57:22   should have still been hot because they [TS]

00:57:23   supposedly been driving all day [TS]

00:57:25   that's right in the pocket for [TS]

00:57:26   encyclopedia around well met some [TS]

00:57:28   sherlock holmes stuff out there was a [TS]

00:57:30   lonely [TS]

00:57:31   yeah absolutely but you know it's also [TS]

00:57:33   part of it was though that and I was I [TS]

00:57:35   was eight I may not a victim of this but [TS]

00:57:37   I was subject to this was hey let's make [TS]

00:57:40   these but you know me you know it's so [TS]

00:57:42   great whenever the grown-ups want to [TS]

00:57:43   make stuff palatable to kids which they [TS]

00:57:45   really mean it's like it's like tricking [TS]

00:57:46   your dog into eating pill by put in [TS]

00:57:48   peanut butter like that you know after [TS]

00:57:50   the dogs eat until it's gonna go you [TS]

00:57:51   just totally fucking tripping so like I [TS]

00:57:53   remember I had a couple small collection [TS]

00:57:55   of like inexpensive hardback books of [TS]

00:57:58   the classics but they had like fun [TS]

00:58:01   covers but it was still a tale of two [TS]

00:58:04   cities inside yeah yeah I remember that [TS]

00:58:06   like where you try and make it more like [TS]

00:58:08   fun and update the covers and make it a [TS]

00:58:10   little hip and like it's still like i [TS]

00:58:12   never got past the first couple pages of [TS]

00:58:14   the tale of two cities did you ever see [TS]

00:58:15   the extreme-teen Bible now I don't think [TS]

00:58:19   I know about this [TS]

00:58:20   yeah Shawn Nelson found one of these [TS]

00:58:21   one-time the extreme teen bible and it [TS]

00:58:24   was the Bible updated for teens but not [TS]

00:58:27   just team all come on Xtreme team no [TS]

00:58:31   fears no regrets [TS]

00:58:33   that's right and so it had like a [TS]

00:58:36   certain I mean had been streamlined so [TS]

00:58:38   that all the King James talk was taken [TS]

00:58:41   out of it and it was just like Jesus was [TS]

00:58:43   a righteous dude he made the fishes turn [TS]

00:58:46   into a mermaid the old shoe leopard [TS]

00:58:49   weather turning officials or whatever [TS]

00:58:50   yeah sure whatever he did [TS]

00:58:51   and something Matthew yeah like jumping [TS]

00:58:54   up and down and he said this and then [TS]

00:58:56   everybody was like not that he was like [TS]

00:58:58   yeah he ripped off an extreme holly [TS]

00:59:01   threat any that's right he carved a [TS]

00:59:04   major fucking boner word and then you [TS]

00:59:08   know certain passages were in were in [TS]

00:59:11   red and then on the side there were [TS]

00:59:12   sidebars was like did you know that [TS]

00:59:15   Jesus never took any shit off nobody who [TS]

00:59:18   ya [TS]

00:59:19   oh and it was it was fantastic we had [TS]

00:59:23   lots of fun with the extreme teen bible [TS]

00:59:24   and i think we may have read it aloud up [TS]

00:59:27   from stage on a particular time let me [TS]

00:59:29   ask the obvious question here so this [TS]

00:59:31   was not just a different cover on like a [TS]

00:59:34   new standard translation they they did [TS]

00:59:36   their that was rewritten in extreme teen [TS]

00:59:38   ease really sure they still have on [TS]

00:59:41   chapters and verses or was it more like [TS]

00:59:43   stories [TS]

00:59:44   mmm more like well you know they had [TS]

00:59:46   chapters and verses in that they pulled [TS]

00:59:48   out chapters and verses so that you can [TS]

00:59:51   memorize the numbers so that you could [TS]

00:59:52   use those to defeat other people in [TS]

00:59:54   arguments at that's key so you can just [TS]

00:59:56   be like john three sixteen what do you [TS]

00:59:57   say to that bra [TS]

00:59:59   mmm [TS]

00:59:59   mmm [TS]

01:00:00   and so they absolutely did that you know [TS]

01:00:04   there are a lot of those sort of quotes [TS]

01:00:06   that are just like if you if if you're [TS]

01:00:09   in an argument with somebody who just [TS]

01:00:10   dropped john three sixteen on them and [TS]

01:00:11   then they just better shut up [TS]

01:00:14   that means a Stone Cold Steve Austin's [TS]

01:00:15   gonna kick your ass that's right that's [TS]

01:00:17   right [TS]

01:00:17   not as extreme teen bible delivers just [TS]

01:00:20   what teams are looking for real answers [TS]

01:00:22   to life's tough questions all the [TS]

01:00:23   innovative study helps our gear to the [TS]

01:00:25   teen culture haha of that they are 15 [TS]

01:00:29   culture all the innovative study helps [TS]

01:00:31   ya wasn't are you going at Nelson's [TS]

01:00:34   extreme teen bible at written by Thomas [TS]

01:00:35   Nelson not having probably no relation [TS]

01:00:38   that may be why Shawn Nelson was first [TS]

01:00:41   turned on the extreme teen bible he was [TS]

01:00:44   probably this was before search engine [TS]

01:00:47   sure so he would have been in the [TS]

01:00:49   bookstore looking at all the books that [TS]

01:00:51   have been written by people named Nelson [TS]

01:00:52   and and discovered it [TS]

01:00:55   I mean it's just a guess seems like a [TS]

01:00:56   weird coincidence [TS]

01:00:58   oh gosh there's the official amazon.com [TS]

01:01:00   reviewer extreme teen bible dares teams [TS]

01:01:03   to crack open its pages and live up to [TS]

01:01:05   the cutting-edge standard found inside [TS]

01:01:07   can you fucking do it can you do it can [TS]

01:01:09   you crack it open you can be a chicken [TS]

01:01:11   bock bock bock exactly you dare crack [TS]

01:01:14   this open this New King James [TS]

01:01:16   translation o bad idea thoroughly [TS]

01:01:18   explained in teen for a black which up [TS]

01:01:20   always gonna be totally grunting fuck i [TS]

01:01:24   feel like this is how mark driscoll got [TS]

01:01:26   his start right the the famous Seattle [TS]

01:01:28   minister with tattoos who's like dude [TS]

01:01:32   brah my wife is smoking hot to the max [TS]

01:01:35   and i like to fuck and do it with her [TS]

01:01:37   over and over because that's the [TS]

01:01:39   Christian Way and you could submit you [TS]

01:01:41   know your wife needs to submit to you [TS]

01:01:43   it's like a SNM ministry with a lot of [TS]

01:01:46   rock and roll it had that's that's that [TS]

01:01:49   founded in the concept of like your wife [TS]

01:01:52   serves you [TS]

01:01:53   that's that you know that's that's what [TS]

01:01:55   that's what the extreme-teen [TS]

01:01:56   bible-toting and then I love that idea [TS]

01:01:59   yeah they're seriously his congregation [TS]

01:02:01   had like 10,000 members and they all [TS]

01:02:04   were like what's up probably about [TS]

01:02:06   nipple piercings or whatever [TS]

01:02:08   and you know and then it turned out that [TS]

01:02:10   he was just can you believe it he was he [TS]

01:02:14   was a little corrupt and contemptible no [TS]

01:02:16   fears no regrets just a future with a [TS]

01:02:18   promise of future with a problem feature [TS]

01:02:20   the promised future with oh I get it I [TS]

01:02:24   get the promises i get the few promising [TS]

01:02:26   technology John it led to get GMO foods [TS]

01:02:30   into your grocery store by email [TS]

01:02:32   see this is a this is an incredible [TS]

01:02:34   technology of your 0 [TS]

01:02:36   uh-huh you don't have to die you go up [TS]

01:02:38   into space like that that's really the [TS]

01:02:41   first space travel is your soul going [TS]

01:02:44   into space its city we kid but this does [TS]

01:02:47   stuff from that same problem which is [TS]

01:02:48   that you know we try you know when [TS]

01:02:50   you're trying to like guide a kid to [TS]

01:02:51   something you know is good useful [TS]

01:02:55   timeless like even cool like it's so you [TS]

01:02:59   can't help it sound like you're like an [TS]

01:03:00   old man with a beetle wig when you're [TS]

01:03:02   when you're trying to explain this stuff [TS]

01:03:03   haha you're my usual check out a check [TS]

01:03:06   out Johnny Tremain this is really should [TS]

01:03:08   see what happens this kit all boy is he [TS]

01:03:10   ever overcome disability in the most [TS]

01:03:12   extreme way haha you know our listeners [TS]

01:03:16   may remember brother Gabe the Dominican [TS]

01:03:18   monk who was a regular listener to our [TS]

01:03:21   program and maybe the reason portland [TS]

01:03:22   now that's right many of them don't [TS]

01:03:24   realize that brother Cape has become [TS]

01:03:25   father cape in within within that the [TS]

01:03:29   scope of our podcasts got from a bird to [TS]

01:03:32   a fur that's right now is a fur gay but [TS]

01:03:35   he gave his own parish I think they did [TS]

01:03:38   or maybe there's one group one priest [TS]

01:03:41   with a greater beard that's up up the [TS]

01:03:42   chain formation at a bar is in his robes [TS]

01:03:46   as always tricking appear don't know how [TS]

01:03:47   this guy gets so much dough but he's i'm [TS]

01:03:50   in a bar importantly totally give me a [TS]

01:03:51   church here only given much a whole [TS]

01:03:53   church was not open anymore he they gave [TS]

01:03:55   him that he got an upgrade is not an [TS]

01:03:57   Oakland anymore he's extreme no fingers [TS]

01:04:00   no regrets [TS]

01:04:01   so he's gonna be you carry these beads I [TS]

01:04:04   didn't think so he's probably gonna have [TS]

01:04:06   a lot to say about the extremity haha [TS]

01:04:11   the extremity of our Lord [TS]

01:04:13   yea though i think the Bible he uses is [TS]

01:04:15   still hand illustrated and in Latin he [TS]

01:04:19   does a real-time translation into a [TS]

01:04:20   wish we could get a computer for that [TS]

01:04:22   see I you know I do that all the time [TS]

01:04:25   when people when people write me in [TS]

01:04:27   foreign languages i just go on the [TS]

01:04:28   computer and writing back and that is a [TS]

01:04:30   major that is a major change i will say [TS]

01:04:33   that that's like oh yeah I'm writing to [TS]

01:04:35   you in server serbo-croatian which I'm [TS]

01:04:38   sure [TS]

01:04:38   now i'm going to get angry letters from [TS]

01:04:39   Serbs and Democrats don't have a couple [TS]

01:04:42   who are like they're not the same [TS]

01:04:44   language there's no cheddar hockey [TS]

01:04:46   anymore talking about the time of the [TS]

01:04:48   Ukraine up now don't haha trouble Taylor [TS]

01:04:54   actually that one makes a big difference [TS]

01:04:57   i didn't realize what a big deal [TS]

01:04:58   the definite article is with Ukraine but [TS]

01:05:00   that's a big deal it's a big deal [TS]

01:05:01   have you come around to that absolutely [TS]

01:05:03   i mean i've been i've been on I've been [TS]

01:05:06   on their side [TS]

01:05:07   uh ever since it was first explained to [TS]

01:05:09   me it's just a bad habit I know I know [TS]

01:05:12   you know it's just this terrible like [TS]

01:05:13   going anywhere you're great and it's [TS]

01:05:15   like I know but uh but it took me a long [TS]

01:05:18   time even to I absolutely like [TS]

01:05:21   understood it just took me so long to [TS]

01:05:24   break the habit of Ukraine the Czech [TS]

01:05:28   Republic although you do say that I [TS]

01:05:30   gotta Berlitz to try to be able to talk [TS]

01:05:32   to my stepfather I got a server creation [TS]

01:05:34   Berlitz when I was a about 12 you're [TS]

01:05:36   saying that your stepfather speaks [TS]

01:05:37   serbo-croatian very specialized fucking [TS]

01:05:40   dead [TS]

01:05:40   thank God right but ya know I tried to [TS]

01:05:43   learn a little bit and a little bit [TS]

01:05:45   let's hear a little bit of a Chicago [TS]

01:05:46   State ok but I heard that already [TS]

01:05:49   remember i was twelve do we don't do you [TS]

01:05:53   have some Spanish shouting in a [TS]

01:05:54   heartbeat but I mean I don't feel the [TS]

01:05:55   obligation to remember all a lot of [TS]

01:05:57   super quick is bad person [TS]

01:05:58   your powers look don't worry Daniel [TS]

01:06:00   don't be then I used to say that all the [TS]

01:06:02   time but that mean that's like hello how [TS]

01:06:04   are you good day good day but you know [TS]

01:06:08   like i get i got to the point where I [TS]

01:06:10   could i I greeted someone in check one [TS]

01:06:13   time and they replied to be [TS]

01:06:16   enthusiastically and check and I was [TS]

01:06:18   like oh sorry that was just I was just I [TS]

01:06:20   was just kidding i only know like seven [TS]

01:06:22   words always be so disappointing and a [TS]

01:06:24   bit but then they were like wow your [TS]

01:06:25   accent is incredible and I was like I'm [TS]

01:06:28   not really i mean i only know seven [TS]

01:06:29   words they're like no but you really got [TS]

01:06:31   the access [TS]

01:06:31   so I said my seven words and they were [TS]

01:06:33   like very impressed with how with my [TS]

01:06:36   like monkey imitation of how they [TS]

01:06:39   pronounce things and for a very brief [TS]

01:06:41   moment I imagined myself learning check [TS]

01:06:46   em I was like yeah now you know I never [TS]

01:06:51   learned German and that would have been [TS]

01:06:52   actually practical something I i do a [TS]

01:06:57   lot and I see a lot of my friends doing [TS]

01:06:58   I don't see you doing so much you're not [TS]

01:07:01   a big recommender of media I've noticed [TS]

01:07:04   and i know you like a lot like you have [TS]

01:07:07   consumed and actually enjoy a lot of [TS]

01:07:09   media but like I don't vary i feel like [TS]

01:07:11   i don't very often hear you want to pull [TS]

01:07:13   somebody and aside and say like you know [TS]

01:07:16   here's this is the movie to check out [TS]

01:07:17   this movie check out this particular [TS]

01:07:18   book it from the Discworld series or [TS]

01:07:20   whatever I don't hear you like pulling [TS]

01:07:22   out like specific is that is that by [TS]

01:07:23   design or like how does that work [TS]

01:07:26   because you have a lot of opinions you [TS]

01:07:28   know a lot of stuff are you are you not [TS]

01:07:31   a big recommender of media i'm not and [TS]

01:07:34   and it's because because I early on I i [TS]

01:07:40   understood there to be a tremendous [TS]

01:07:41   difference between being a reader and [TS]

01:07:45   being a fetishistic reader of lists of [TS]

01:07:49   the books and it came as a result of a [TS]

01:07:52   conversation I overheard between two [TS]

01:07:54   people who were both who both presented [TS]

01:07:57   themselves as extremely well-read and [TS]

01:07:59   they were arguing with each other and by [TS]

01:08:02   just essentially citing John 317 or 3 16 [TS]

01:08:05   or whatever in the sense that they were [TS]

01:08:07   saying like oh yeah that's interesting [TS]

01:08:09   you know that's just like this passage [TS]

01:08:10   for Melissa ease Ulysses and then the [TS]

01:08:13   other person would say yeah it really [TS]

01:08:14   reminds me a blank blank you know this [TS]

01:08:17   the the original translation of Honor [TS]

01:08:25   Karenina this is that this is a classic [TS]

01:08:27   liberal arts problem plastic liberal [TS]

01:08:29   arts conversation is to people trying to [TS]

01:08:31   outdo each other on references and and [TS]

01:08:34   nobody's ever allowed to say i don't [TS]

01:08:35   know what you're talking about or what [TS]

01:08:36   that means [TS]

01:08:36   yeah and they were just throwing book [TS]

01:08:38   titles and authors at one another and at [TS]

01:08:42   the end of the conversation there was no [TS]

01:08:44   no wonder [TS]

01:08:45   standing had taken place know there was [TS]

01:08:47   it was not a conversation about ideas it [TS]

01:08:49   was actually discussed at length by [TS]

01:08:51   italo calvino really not well that's [TS]

01:08:54   very interesting because umberto eco had [TS]

01:08:57   a had a passage about Calvin now i [TS]

01:09:00   remember reading about that it was [TS]

01:09:01   something in the New York about four [TS]

01:09:03   days i was reading this exactly i was [TS]

01:09:04   reading the times literary supplement [TS]

01:09:05   what ya reading that about all the mouth [TS]

01:09:08   or hands that used to be so good I'm so [TS]

01:09:10   glad you can still enjoy that anyway it [TS]

01:09:12   was infuriating because the initial the [TS]

01:09:15   initial jumping-off point of the [TS]

01:09:16   conversation was an idea and I really [TS]

01:09:21   was excited about it [TS]

01:09:22   the idea and I kept my kept waiting for [TS]

01:09:26   someone to say something about it and [TS]

01:09:29   and eventually like we were thousand [TS]

01:09:32   miles from that idea but had traverse no [TS]

01:09:34   ground and no ideas had been shared and [TS]

01:09:37   I realized like part of my education or [TS]

01:09:40   a large part of it was just my own way [TS]

01:09:43   of finding a path through ideas and you [TS]

01:09:48   know if you if you walk into not even a [TS]

01:09:50   large library but just just someone's [TS]

01:09:53   home library where the books are where [TS]

01:09:56   it's floor-to-ceiling books on three [TS]

01:09:58   walls that's more books than you could [TS]

01:10:00   possibly read in a lifetime and so so [TS]

01:10:05   there's so much emphasis on you know [TS]

01:10:09   here's the 10 books you need to read or [TS]

01:10:11   here's the 10 books that that this smart [TS]

01:10:13   guy recommends and really what you're [TS]

01:10:16   doing when you're doing that is missing [TS]

01:10:19   the opportunity for you to find your 10 [TS]

01:10:21   books and there's no such thing as a [TS]

01:10:23   book that isn't useful even a book that [TS]

01:10:27   you hate or a book that you throw on the [TS]

01:10:29   ground like if you read if you read two [TS]

01:10:32   chapters of a book and you're like this [TS]

01:10:33   is garbage and you throw it away that [TS]

01:10:35   was just as useful as reading a book all [TS]

01:10:38   the way through in terms of you [TS]

01:10:41   discovering your own taste and you [TS]

01:10:42   finding your own intellectual path so [TS]

01:10:45   there was a crucial moment in my life [TS]

01:10:47   where I had a friend whose mother was a [TS]

01:10:50   whose mother taught a course on the [TS]

01:10:53   novel at a university and i was very [TS]

01:10:56   poor [TS]

01:10:58   so when he was done reading the books [TS]

01:11:01   that his mother was was forcing her [TS]

01:11:05   students to read he would pitch those [TS]

01:11:07   books to me and it was basically just [TS]

01:11:09   just one professors reading list it was [TS]

01:11:11   like I was taking her class but it came [TS]

01:11:13   at precisely the moment when I didn't [TS]

01:11:15   have money to buy books and so I had [TS]

01:11:17   this steady stream of books but I was [TS]

01:11:19   getting not i was getting none of her [TS]

01:11:20   interpretation i was not sitting in [TS]

01:11:22   class discussing it with other students [TS]

01:11:24   I was just getting these free books [TS]

01:11:25   right and and so those books were [TS]

01:11:29   leaping off points for me to go read [TS]

01:11:31   other books like what is this about oh [TS]

01:11:32   I'm going to go chase this and it was [TS]

01:11:34   all very personal so I i really believe [TS]

01:11:37   even even when you are given a reading [TS]

01:11:39   list that if you're not pursuing a [TS]

01:11:41   personal journey you're not getting an [TS]

01:11:45   education because the because chasing is [TS]

01:11:49   the key element and so I'm very [TS]

01:11:53   reluctant to you know what people are [TS]

01:11:55   like giving you three books about World [TS]

01:11:56   War 2 i'm like there are so many books [TS]

01:11:58   about where to start with the one in [TS]

01:12:00   front of you start with the first one [TS]

01:12:02   don't even go on amazon and look for the [TS]

01:12:04   one that has the best rating find one [TS]

01:12:06   and start reading it and then chase that [TS]

01:12:09   trail because it's yours it belongs to [TS]

01:12:12   you and like my take on world war one [TS]

01:12:16   what interests me about it and the [TS]

01:12:19   Balfour Declaration and the life that I [TS]

01:12:22   have spent chasing the the ramifications [TS]

01:12:26   of the Balfour Declaration and how that [TS]

01:12:29   changed the world and we're still worst [TS]

01:12:34   we're in a world that is absolutely a [TS]

01:12:36   product of that and that was a product [TS]

01:12:39   of world war one like that's mine you [TS]

01:12:41   know and that may not be what you take [TS]

01:12:44   away from world war one you made you may [TS]

01:12:47   take a different thing and chase your [TS]

01:12:48   own dragon so that's why i don't [TS]

01:12:52   recommend media even when people you [TS]

01:12:56   know address me directly and say please [TS]

01:12:58   tell me what where I should go because [TS]

01:13:01   it's you know it's it's obvious where [TS]

01:13:04   you should go [TS]

01:13:04   you just you just start and chase [TS]

01:13:08   because I because the thing that I hate [TS]

01:13:11   the most is this kind of monoculture of [TS]

01:13:14   situations where everybody seen the same [TS]

01:13:16   thing everybody seen the same thing and [TS]

01:13:18   everybody has read enough reviews on the [TS]

01:13:21   internet they know what their take on it [TS]

01:13:22   should be and so there's not enough [TS]

01:13:25   there there there aren't enough [TS]

01:13:27   situations where people are saying well [TS]

01:13:29   you know what that's not what I got out [TS]

01:13:30   of that book at all that people have [TS]

01:13:32   forgotten how to trust their own [TS]

01:13:34   instincts and you know a an example of [TS]

01:13:38   this is at a certain point everybody [TS]

01:13:40   agreed that the eagles suck and [TS]

01:13:42   everybody was reading the same critical [TS]

01:13:44   are all the cool kids were reading the [TS]

01:13:46   same articles where people initially [TS]

01:13:48   were were advancing a pretty of you know [TS]

01:13:53   like a pretty contra argument the Eagles [TS]

01:13:57   greatest hits is the best-selling album [TS]

01:13:59   of all time and so super easy in in the [TS]

01:14:04   eighties to write an article saying [TS]

01:14:05   actually the Eagles are garbage and then [TS]

01:14:08   that became a thing that you could not [TS]

01:14:11   argue against you know a real group [TS]

01:14:13   thing [TS]

01:14:14   yeah so that even now when glenn frey [TS]

01:14:16   died there were all these all these [TS]

01:14:19   reflection pieces that were like well he [TS]

01:14:24   sucked and his band sucked but I still [TS]

01:14:30   kind of feel like he sucked and I and [TS]

01:14:33   now he's dead and so i can't really like [TS]

01:14:35   this is sort of a thing i'm writing to [TS]

01:14:38   commemorate that but he's really [TS]

01:14:41   intolerable and it was just like wow [TS]

01:14:43   they're so now the the really radical [TS]

01:14:46   stance to take is like I like to the [TS]

01:14:48   eagles and that's just that's just a [TS]

01:14:51   product I think of of people just having [TS]

01:14:54   a having reading lists that are too [TS]

01:14:56   small in on something that runs through [TS]

01:14:59   all these also is in my mind is this [TS]

01:15:01   implicit the first of all let me [TS]

01:15:04   distract by saying like I think it's one [TS]

01:15:06   thing i think is very useful to people [TS]

01:15:07   can be very useful in this this is I [TS]

01:15:09   don't know if we agree or disagree on [TS]

01:15:10   this but I think it can be useful to [TS]

01:15:12   give somebody a starting point with [TS]

01:15:14   something so like with comics for [TS]

01:15:16   example i will frequently say check out [TS]

01:15:17   this comic or that comic boot huh [TS]

01:15:20   watch me [TS]

01:15:21   we have the best place to start but but [TS]

01:15:23   there are comics out there and i know [TS]

01:15:25   but the thing is i will also ask them [TS]

01:15:26   also like okay like what kind of like [TS]

01:15:28   novels you enjoy what TV shows do you [TS]

01:15:30   like not just for theme not just for [TS]

01:15:32   like do you like Vikings or space people [TS]

01:15:34   along the lines of what kind of stories [TS]

01:15:36   do you like because just because you [TS]

01:15:37   like science fiction is no guarantee [TS]

01:15:39   you're gonna like Steven Moffat dr who [TS]

01:15:41   that's gonna be more like you know do [TS]

01:15:42   you like switches and change them up [TS]

01:15:44   Drew's situation change ups and so I try [TS]

01:15:47   to take all that in being the person is [TS]

01:15:48   going to advise you where to start i [TS]

01:15:50   want to call that into consideration and [TS]

01:15:53   so I think that can be helpful but with [TS]

01:15:56   that said I think I feel like sometimes [TS]

01:15:58   in this in this age there's something [TS]

01:16:01   kind of implicit for a long time we call [TS]

01:16:03   it the cannon like you don't want to not [TS]

01:16:06   know about something in the Canon [TS]

01:16:07   because you look at dummy [TS]

01:16:09   so let you should I top Sawyer well or [TS]

01:16:11   like you know whatever like if somebody [TS]

01:16:13   was talking about the old man and the [TS]

01:16:14   sea you won't be able to not too long [TS]

01:16:15   ago yes and OSS and I I think sometimes [TS]

01:16:19   I feel like maybe what what you might be [TS]

01:16:22   pushing back against I can't speak for [TS]

01:16:23   you but is this cliff notes problem of [TS]

01:16:26   people it it sounds like they're saying [TS]

01:16:29   what books [TS]

01:16:30   what book should I read what books [TS]

01:16:31   should I read but there's always part of [TS]

01:16:34   me that wants to say that feels like [TS]

01:16:36   well there's also there's this tendency [TS]

01:16:38   that's like what book should i be able [TS]

01:16:40   to say that i've read which is different [TS]

01:16:42   which is a different thing altogether [TS]

01:16:44   hmm and what you know again the thinking [TS]

01:16:47   about the way one discovers a books or a [TS]

01:16:50   movie or whatever accidentally and you [TS]

01:16:53   know everybody was a nerd or geek can [TS]

01:16:55   talk about having like an extreme [TS]

01:16:57   attachment to most other people don't [TS]

01:17:00   like it all or consider to be the worst [TS]

01:17:02   of that particular kind of thing but you [TS]

01:17:04   have a special affection for because it [TS]

01:17:06   was yours and you discovered that you [TS]

01:17:07   always have that even if your critical [TS]

01:17:09   faculties theoretically grow us still [TS]

01:17:11   always enjoy that one even though you [TS]

01:17:13   may not think it's the best one but you [TS]

01:17:15   can't know that unless you've sort of [TS]

01:17:17   discovered it [TS]

01:17:18   the problem is if you go into it loaded [TS]

01:17:20   for bear and you have you read this [TS]

01:17:21   wikipedia article [TS]

01:17:22   you've read the the top ten novels you [TS]

01:17:24   need to read before you die [TS]

01:17:26   you've seen these listen all these [TS]

01:17:27   things you know that like there's [TS]

01:17:28   certain things that you can name check [TS]

01:17:30   that most people in the room are going [TS]

01:17:31   to a agree with an r RB [TS]

01:17:34   to make make you sound cool that you [TS]

01:17:37   said that me and you didn't say that so [TS]

01:17:39   if you see even though the Eagles had [TS]

01:17:41   one of the greatest selling albums of [TS]

01:17:42   all time several other than that [TS]

01:17:44   probably it's not cool to say you like [TS]

01:17:47   the Eagles because at some point we all [TS]

01:17:48   agreed that they were cool [TS]

01:17:49   yeah you know and so that's that's part [TS]

01:17:53   of it is that when you i don't know i [TS]

01:17:56   don't want to feed into that I'm [TS]

01:17:58   certainly been guilty of that I've gone [TS]

01:17:59   and scurried to go learn about something [TS]

01:18:01   as much as anybody else has but what but [TS]

01:18:03   we're talking about something that feels [TS]

01:18:04   especially feels like special to you you [TS]

01:18:07   know you can't replicate the experience [TS]

01:18:09   of having discovered something by having [TS]

01:18:10   somebody hand you a list with three [TS]

01:18:12   things on and say like these are three [TS]

01:18:13   things you should note to name-check [TS]

01:18:15   yeah i think the example that I always [TS]

01:18:19   come back to is the is the [TS]

01:18:20   israel-palestine problem like really [TS]

01:18:25   thoughtful intelligent sensitive people [TS]

01:18:28   can disagree passionately about what [TS]

01:18:34   that problem is right what kind would [TS]

01:18:37   even constitutes that problem and what [TS]

01:18:41   would constitute the cut is the [TS]

01:18:43   constellation of those problems right [TS]

01:18:45   right if you're trying to explain South [TS]

01:18:47   Africa like you think you understand [TS]

01:18:49   South Africa go talk to our friend grant [TS]

01:18:50   it's always been way more complicated [TS]

01:18:52   than anybody realized yeah infinitely [TS]

01:18:55   infinitely complicated and so you're [TS]

01:18:57   you're jumping off point for the [TS]

01:19:00   israeli-palestinian problem in a lot of [TS]

01:19:03   ways is your moral education right like [TS]

01:19:07   you can read a thousand books about it [TS]

01:19:09   and depending you know you you are going [TS]

01:19:14   to have your opinion either confirmed or [TS]

01:19:18   you're going to disagree or I mean it [TS]

01:19:19   like that like the number of of entrance [TS]

01:19:23   points to that argument it's in a lot of [TS]

01:19:30   ways it's very hard for me even to [TS]

01:19:32   imagine how you would educate someone on [TS]

01:19:35   it that wasn't deeply personal because [TS]

01:19:40   they're ours because there are so many [TS]

01:19:42   factors in play that a lot of them are [TS]

01:19:47   our product of books that you read a [TS]

01:19:50   long long time before and how you how [TS]

01:19:53   you responded to your nursery rhymes in [TS]

01:19:55   a way and so you know last night I was [TS]

01:19:58   watching a miniseries about Carlos the [TS]

01:20:03   Jackal and I was doing that because [TS]

01:20:06   that's what i think is fun [TS]

01:20:08   that's what Isis I narcos no no no [TS]

01:20:11   Carlos the Jackal a completely other not [TS]

01:20:14   not not related to marcos and all Carlos [TS]

01:20:17   the Jackal was a was a well I guess he [TS]

01:20:21   was one of the people that invented [TS]

01:20:23   terrorism and early at well he he was a [TS]

01:20:28   terrorist that that went through every [TS]

01:20:31   stage like he started in the sixties he [TS]

01:20:33   wasn't arrested finally until 1994 and [TS]

01:20:36   he pioneered a lot of terrorism lot of [TS]

01:20:41   different kinds of terrorism he was [TS]

01:20:44   there at the start when hijacking planes [TS]

01:20:46   was still fun [TS]

01:20:47   who and so and he was fighting for the [TS]

01:20:51   Palestinian cause and for the and also [TS]

01:20:53   for the cause of global revolution and [TS]

01:20:58   this miniseries is there sort of [TS]

01:21:01   glamorizing him and making him he's very [TS]

01:21:04   sexy and he's and he and he's the hero [TS]

01:21:07   of this film and played by a sexy actor [TS]

01:21:11   and because it was made by friend it was [TS]

01:21:15   made by french television it shows his [TS]

01:21:17   penis and so you go you know if there is [TS]

01:21:25   a way to watch it where you become very [TS]

01:21:27   sympathetic to the idea of throwing a [TS]

01:21:31   grenade into a cafe because this is you [TS]

01:21:36   know this is your protagonist and to [TS]

01:21:40   watch it is to suggest either that you [TS]

01:21:46   begin reading backwards [TS]

01:21:48   you know you start at the the white [TS]

01:21:49   album and then you listen to sergeant [TS]

01:21:52   pepper and then you listen to rubber [TS]

01:21:53   sole and you go back to Jerry Lee Lewis [TS]

01:21:57   you know you have to do that to make any [TS]

01:22:00   sense of this [TS]

01:22:01   what's happening in carlos the jackal [TS]

01:22:03   and then you start reading forward after [TS]

01:22:06   you have that if you're after you've [TS]

01:22:07   read backwards then you have to start [TS]

01:22:09   reading forward from there and that's a [TS]

01:22:12   very involved and personal journey right [TS]

01:22:16   i mean if you're starting off because [TS]

01:22:19   there are a lot of people wearing a [TS]

01:22:20   wearing Palestinian scarfs on their [TS]

01:22:23   college campus who have been given an [TS]

01:22:26   opinion about it by their you know by [TS]

01:22:28   their professor or their friends or [TS]

01:22:30   whoever stop them on campus and handed [TS]

01:22:32   them a flyer and you know and that was [TS]

01:22:36   their entrance point into into having if [TS]

01:22:38   having a feeling about it and then [TS]

01:22:41   that's going to really determine how you [TS]

01:22:42   how you read everything else and hard to [TS]

01:22:46   imagine that that that whatever whatever [TS]

01:22:49   that first sort of black-and-white [TS]

01:22:50   opinion you you developed hard to [TS]

01:22:54   imagine that it's never really going to [TS]

01:22:56   be affected by the evidence because it's [TS]

01:22:58   so intractable you know but you know but [TS]

01:23:03   they're there so many depths of opinion [TS]

01:23:06   you can have about it and one of them is [TS]

01:23:08   to stand in the pin in your quad and [TS]

01:23:12   yell about it and one of them is to have [TS]

01:23:14   read 80 books so i don't know i would [TS]

01:23:19   like people to i would like people to [TS]

01:23:21   have read the 80 books that I've read [TS]

01:23:23   but i would also like people to read 80 [TS]

01:23:25   different books and I don't know I [TS]

01:23:28   honestly don't know how to because i [TS]

01:23:30   think you're right there are a lot of [TS]

01:23:31   ways I guess I don't want to shape I [TS]

01:23:35   don't want to shape people who are [TS]

01:23:36   interested in me in a way that makes [TS]

01:23:39   them acolytes you know her [TS]

01:23:43   so anyway yeah i don't i don't recommend [TS]

01:23:45   a lot of of media and and maybe that's [TS]

01:23:52   maybe that's not maybe that's not good [TS]

01:23:56   maybe I should I part of it is i don't i [TS]

01:24:00   don't know where to start [TS]

01:24:01   uh-huh you know I don't know why you [TS]

01:24:03   would be interested in the Balfour [TS]

01:24:05   Declaration the first time you read [TS]

01:24:07   about [TS]

01:24:07   you know I don't know how you would see [TS]

01:24:09   it and understand what it represented [TS]

01:24:12   well through I don't know how much [TS]

01:24:16   you're sandbagging here but I'm not sure [TS]

01:24:18   I know what sandbagging is oh is that [TS]

01:24:21   where you prevent a river from [TS]

01:24:23   overflowing [TS]

01:24:23   yep a little bit like hustling it's a [TS]

01:24:25   little bit like acting acting like you [TS]

01:24:27   are aren't as good at something as you [TS]

01:24:29   are right by which i just mean that will [TS]

01:24:33   I you can I hope you can understand that [TS]

01:24:35   when you listen to somebody else talk [TS]

01:24:37   about something that you don't know [TS]

01:24:39   about or you don't know a lot about or [TS]

01:24:41   you don't have an opinion that you are [TS]

01:24:43   particularly attached to [TS]

01:24:44   I mean just think about how much of what [TS]

01:24:45   we do in a given most people including [TS]

01:24:48   me in a given month is like listening to [TS]

01:24:50   what other people have to say about [TS]

01:24:51   something and in this case you're [TS]

01:24:53   talking about [TS]

01:24:54   in some cases some stuff that we talked [TS]

01:24:56   about world war two or whatever its [TS]

01:24:58   people know some stuff about but they [TS]

01:25:00   never thought about it in the way that [TS]

01:25:01   you put it [TS]

01:25:02   you seem like a pretty intelligent guy [TS]

01:25:03   and you've got a point of view about it [TS]

01:25:05   i don't think it's unusual to say huh [TS]

01:25:07   I'd like to be a little bit smarter [TS]

01:25:08   about that where should I start [TS]

01:25:10   well yeah but you would got me into [TS]

01:25:12   world war two was a my dad fought in it [TS]

01:25:15   and be the plains and the boats and the [TS]

01:25:19   trucks and the tanks were cool like I [TS]

01:25:23   think when you talk about high [TS]

01:25:24   watermarks there was never a cooler set [TS]

01:25:28   of gear and as a kid like when f4 [TS]

01:25:34   phantoms were flying all around my house [TS]

01:25:36   I was much more interested in the f4u a [TS]

01:25:40   navy airplane that took off from [TS]

01:25:43   aircraft carriers and you know and [TS]

01:25:44   fought over Corregidor just because I [TS]

01:25:47   loved the planes you know and i would [TS]

01:25:50   buy and i would get these books about [TS]

01:25:52   world war two planes and I would look at [TS]

01:25:53   them and I would learn about him and I [TS]

01:25:55   just thought they were rad and through [TS]

01:25:57   that through be thinking the planes were [TS]

01:26:00   read i read enough of those books that I [TS]

01:26:03   started to say oh shit you know world [TS]

01:26:05   war two what's going on here [TS]

01:26:07   it's not just you know it's not just [TS]

01:26:09   Hitler yamamoto it's like who are all [TS]

01:26:11   these other characters than read about [TS]

01:26:13   them and then uh you know that I got can [TS]

01:26:17   confused and I when I watched the winds [TS]

01:26:19   of war [TS]

01:26:20   her and then having watched the winds of [TS]

01:26:23   war i read the winds of war you know and [TS]

01:26:26   that's so then I became you know that i [TS]

01:26:28   became converse in world war two and [TS]

01:26:29   world war one looked so boring so boring [TS]

01:26:34   they just sat in muddy trenches for [TS]

01:26:36   years with hat helmets that had little [TS]

01:26:39   spikes on them and every once in a while [TS]

01:26:41   somebody got hung up in some barbed wire [TS]

01:26:43   and I was just like yon city and I [TS]

01:26:48   avoided learning about world war one for [TS]

01:26:50   a long long time because it was just so [TS]

01:26:52   dull [TS]

01:26:52   where did they had no cool planes like [TS]

01:26:54   Eddie Rickenbacker up there in a plane [TS]

01:26:56   made of balsa wood yawn but the more I [TS]

01:27:00   learned about World War 2 the more I [TS]

01:27:02   didn't understand the more I learned [TS]

01:27:04   about Hitler the more I didn't [TS]

01:27:05   understand and have and eventually all [TS]

01:27:07   arrows pointed to world war one and I [TS]

01:27:10   didn't want to learn about I didn't want [TS]

01:27:11   to read about World War One God what is [TS]

01:27:13   a bunch of a bunch of people run riding [TS]

01:27:18   into battle on horseback and getting cut [TS]

01:27:20   down by machine guns nothing about that [TS]

01:27:22   is fun but then I read about it and [TS]

01:27:26   started to realize that that was [TS]

01:27:29   interesting about world war one was that [TS]

01:27:31   it was it was the 19th century colliding [TS]

01:27:35   with the 20th century and all these [TS]

01:27:37   empires collide you know washing up on [TS]

01:27:40   the shore of modernity and then I had to [TS]

01:27:44   go back and learn about the Empire's you [TS]

01:27:46   know and that that was like me [TS]

01:27:47   reluctantly the whole time just kicking [TS]

01:27:50   and screaming I don't want to learn [TS]

01:27:52   about Russia what does that have to do [TS]

01:27:54   with that I think there are no even [TS]

01:27:56   airplanes and then i'm reading about the [TS]

01:27:59   thirty years war which if you want to [TS]

01:28:01   talk about boring it's not the thirty [TS]

01:28:04   years war was boring it's that the [TS]

01:28:06   scholarship about it is boring and you [TS]

01:28:09   know it's always chapter after chapter [TS]

01:28:12   about salting the fields and why is the [TS]

01:28:14   king of Sweden involved you know and [TS]

01:28:16   then it's bad then it's back at the wave [TS]

01:28:19   washes back so so 2 to say to anybody [TS]

01:28:22   like hair you know here's the book about [TS]

01:28:24   world war one you should read i didn't [TS]

01:28:28   get there that way I got there through [TS]

01:28:31   loving airplanes [TS]

01:28:32   her so I can't if I can't divorce that I [TS]

01:28:39   can't divorce that whole long walk and [TS]

01:28:41   then walking back and then walking this [TS]

01:28:44   way and walking that way from that [TS]

01:28:46   initial beginning of like just being a [TS]

01:28:51   kid sitting cross-legged in the library [TS]

01:28:53   reading about about these cool things at [TS]

01:28:59   and and I guess that's how i found my [TS]

01:29:01   way into every single thing I ever read [TS]

01:29:03   and it feels so feel so individual that [TS]

01:29:09   at every every book I recommend I I feel [TS]

01:29:12   this enormous responsibility to [TS]

01:29:15   recommend the ten books that should come [TS]

01:29:18   in advance of it and it feels a little [TS]

01:29:20   bit like the long version of The [TS]

01:29:22   Godfather where I'm trying to put these [TS]

01:29:25   movies that I watched that were [TS]

01:29:28   narrative Lee all broken up and trying [TS]

01:29:31   to put them in some kind of [TS]

01:29:32   chronological order and so that I'm like [TS]

01:29:36   well you have to start reading a book [TS]

01:29:38   about the thirty years war which is [TS]

01:29:39   literally the most boring thing I've [TS]

01:29:40   ever read [TS]

01:29:41   so you're not going to want to do that [TS]

01:29:43   but it's like youryour it's kind of a [TS]

01:29:46   similar point to the talk about [TS]

01:29:47   Palestine and Israel or however you [TS]

01:29:50   choose to frame that is that you [TS]

01:29:53   the first thing you wanna almost [TS]

01:29:55   recommend is that you can't recommend is [TS]

01:29:57   to start with the state of mind that I [TS]

01:29:59   had which I don't want you to have but [TS]

01:30:01   to take the journey that I did you must [TS]

01:30:02   first start with the state of mind that [TS]

01:30:04   I had which I could not replicate for [TS]

01:30:05   you and I would even recommend it if I [TS]

01:30:07   could [TS]

01:30:08   yeah right like and any and you wonder [TS]

01:30:10   where people are on that like do you [TS]

01:30:11   still like cool planes is that we're [TS]

01:30:13   here is that why you're interested in [TS]

01:30:14   world war two is that cool planes [TS]

01:30:16   because i can tell you what to read [TS]

01:30:18   about cool planes but where are you [TS]

01:30:21   coming into it are you coming into it [TS]

01:30:23   having watch band of brothers and you [TS]

01:30:25   want to know more [TS]

01:30:26   right that's fascinating to but by the [TS]

01:30:29   time i watch band of brothers [TS]

01:30:30   I had all this context that made that [TS]

01:30:32   that made that miniseries really sing to [TS]

01:30:35   me if that was the first thing I [TS]

01:30:37   experienced about World War two [TS]

01:30:40   you know i would i would just jump off [TS]

01:30:42   from there I go like figure out who [TS]

01:30:44   major winters was [TS]

01:30:46   was and what he was like when he was a [TS]

01:30:47   little i don't i love that series [TS]

01:30:50   alright it's so much and everything in [TS]

01:30:53   it like when you're getting to the point [TS]

01:30:54   where there is in the or again when [TS]

01:30:56   someone have the really the tough winter [TS]

01:30:58   in the forest and the bombs coming in [TS]

01:31:00   but you know the thing is you go in if [TS]

01:31:03   you're like me you're sitting there [TS]

01:31:03   looking at Wikipedia while you're [TS]

01:31:05   watching it and it is not it is not a [TS]

01:31:06   lick of exaggeration and what's [TS]

01:31:08   happening and I it's exactly as awful as [TS]

01:31:10   it looked [TS]

01:31:10   it's so it's so incredible and that's [TS]

01:31:13   and there are 50 movies about d-day [TS]

01:31:14   and-and-and about a battle of the bolts [TS]

01:31:19   which is the absolute last thing that's [TS]

01:31:23   happening in that war [TS]

01:31:24   we're already six million Russian [TS]

01:31:27   soldiers have died right I don't know [TS]

01:31:29   you're you know you're starting in the [TS]

01:31:31   third act of war [TS]

01:31:33   that's the wrong place to come in on [TS]

01:31:34   that play yeah and then the United [TS]

01:31:36   States really plays a small role in the [TS]

01:31:38   war in terms of fighting battles like [TS]

01:31:42   the Battle of Stalingrad we there aren't [TS]

01:31:44   50 movies about but you know talk about [TS]

01:31:48   brutality but the thing about thing [TS]

01:31:50   about d-day is it's so fantastic these [TS]

01:31:52   guys in these little silliness to my dad [TS]

01:31:54   I just see the photo i just sent you [TS]

01:31:56   know else might my daughter a essential [TS]

01:31:59   photo on your phone on my phone [TS]

01:32:02   oh shit that's a whole other technology [TS]

01:32:04   in the one sitting in from I'm sorry [TS]

01:32:06   well anyway out all the important thing [TS]

01:32:07   to know is that my daughter went for her [TS]

01:32:09   brownie troop went to an aviation museum [TS]

01:32:12   and she's really into planes now [TS]

01:32:14   oh really yeah you can see here where [TS]

01:32:16   she's uh my wife calls me over and look [TS]

01:32:18   at her door she got a chalkboard or and [TS]

01:32:20   now says home to Amelia Earhart and as [TS]

01:32:22   our plane hanging from it and she goes [TS]

01:32:25   yeah just so you know I'm gonna be into [TS]

01:32:26   this for like a year haha she was so [TS]

01:32:30   excited so we've been talking a lot [TS]

01:32:31   about planes and about about it you know [TS]

01:32:33   aeronautics aviation you and I told your [TS]

01:32:35   dad story about 20 haha and how we may [TS]

01:32:39   or may not be exactly to Tony told that [TS]

01:32:42   story but what was my point talking to [TS]

01:32:45   her about d-day and I was trying to [TS]

01:32:47   explain DJ her and like I and but just [TS]

01:32:50   how improbable so much of d-day was to [TS]

01:32:54   just you know it's like I said a bunch [TS]

01:32:56   of times and I know people there are [TS]

01:32:57   people older people who disagree with [TS]

01:32:58   this I've argued like [TS]

01:32:59   my mother-in-law about this but like [TS]

01:33:01   just that sense of like if you came in [TS]

01:33:03   on the movie it let's say if you if [TS]

01:33:05   you're learning about world war two and [TS]

01:33:06   you left off [TS]

01:33:08   what and Midway like if you get some [TS]

01:33:09   point like say 43 there's no guarantee [TS]

01:33:12   that this was gonna end great for [TS]

01:33:13   America no arm just i mean i think that [TS]

01:33:16   one of the if there's anything to take [TS]

01:33:18   away and i don't mean to give advice [TS]

01:33:19   here is just to remember like how bad it [TS]

01:33:22   seems and how entirely possible it [TS]

01:33:24   seemed at a certain point that we were [TS]

01:33:26   going to lose and we're gonna lose big [TS]

01:33:28   and just just need to know about what [TS]

01:33:30   went into like all of the like all the [TS]

01:33:33   different drives to try and get the [TS]

01:33:35   resources what people in America were [TS]

01:33:36   for going to go to the Troops and it's [TS]

01:33:38   just it's a story that as many times as [TS]

01:33:40   told still incredibly moving to me how [TS]

01:33:43   we kept at it especially England my god [TS]

01:33:45   but how we kept out and even stuff got [TS]

01:33:47   so so very terrible and then like you [TS]

01:33:50   can't really appreciate how awesome to [TS]

01:33:51   be the whole DNA thing is unless you [TS]

01:33:53   appreciate what a crash it it was that [TS]

01:33:56   there's no way a plan that huge could [TS]

01:33:58   work and not be discovered and work it's [TS]

01:34:01   it's mind-boggling and you're exactly [TS]

01:34:04   right because because so often now the [TS]

01:34:07   the first thing you understand about the [TS]

01:34:09   Battle of Midway was that it was the [TS]

01:34:11   turning point of the war in the Pacific [TS]

01:34:12   and it's like here Battle of Midway was [TS]

01:34:15   the turning point of the war in the [TS]

01:34:16   Pacific and so you go okay really [TS]

01:34:19   and you watch every you you learn about [TS]

01:34:21   it as a fait accompli [TS]

01:34:23   yeah and really it was a totally random [TS]

01:34:28   series of happy accidents incredible [TS]

01:34:31   luck and like awesome risk-taking right [TS]

01:34:35   i mean the the risks involved the people [TS]

01:34:38   who were flying on empty gas tanks to at [TS]

01:34:42   the last possible minute look down [TS]

01:34:44   through the clouds see a task force and [TS]

01:34:46   radio it in and just be like wow what go [TS]

01:34:49   got all this point at this point what [TS]

01:34:51   the Japanese still just basically [TS]

01:34:52   kicking our ass and you know they're [TS]

01:34:54   kicking our ass everywhere that I mean [TS]

01:34:55   they were they were kicking our ass in a [TS]

01:34:57   in you know Malaysia and Indonesia and [TS]

01:35:01   philippines and they were just they were [TS]

01:35:03   ruling and we were like we are most of [TS]

01:35:08   our fleet was on was up at the bottom of [TS]

01:35:10   Pearl Harbor [TS]

01:35:11   and we just you know and this is the [TS]

01:35:13   thing like American plot coming it's [TS]

01:35:15   part of our it's part of our our [TS]

01:35:17   foundation math almost actually but yeah [TS]

01:35:22   you have to read about that stuff with [TS]

01:35:24   that sense of like this could go either [TS]

01:35:26   way in a big way where we are the [TS]

01:35:29   underdogs here and that's what's so [TS]

01:35:30   great about it but like would DJ started [TS]

01:35:34   with a swell made those landings they [TS]

01:35:37   didn't know that Hitler was Hitler had [TS]

01:35:40   gone insane [TS]

01:35:42   they didn't really I mean they knew that [TS]

01:35:43   the Russians were were pushing back and [TS]

01:35:47   they knew that that was the strategy but [TS]

01:35:49   they didn't know that the chain of [TS]

01:35:51   command in the Nazi army had broken down [TS]

01:35:53   and that Hitler was acting as his own [TS]

01:35:55   general and not taking any advice from [TS]

01:35:58   his soldiers right so now we look at [TS]

01:36:01   that were like oh shit [TS]

01:36:03   there wasn't any way we could lose but [TS]

01:36:04   that's you know that's not how they [TS]

01:36:06   thought and and yeah that homefront [TS]

01:36:10   stuff i mean how many books have you [TS]

01:36:11   read about how how many different times [TS]

01:36:14   that you have a aha moment i'm still [TS]

01:36:16   reading books like like that the meaning [TS]

01:36:18   of Hitler where it's a palm slap to the [TS]

01:36:22   forehead [TS]

01:36:23   Wow huh I never thought of that [TS]

01:36:26   I never in all the years of reading [TS]

01:36:29   about this stuff had that moment and I [TS]

01:36:32   don't know what would what it would have [TS]

01:36:34   been like if i had read the meeting of [TS]

01:36:36   Hitler first you know what I mean yeah [TS]

01:36:38   so yeah i i'm i'm confused by it and and [TS]

01:36:42   and and and eventually like how do you [TS]

01:36:47   because it because i'm so thrilled that [TS]

01:36:50   Eleanor likes airplanes [TS]

01:36:51   yeah and because that's the general [TS]

01:36:54   helmet and goggles in the whole night [TS]

01:36:56   that's the entrance to so much for me [TS]

01:36:58   arable land where the where the where [TS]

01:37:00   the gateway drug for my whole education [TS]

01:37:03   and the different ways that people could [TS]

01:37:08   enter into I mean you know if the first [TS]

01:37:12   thing you read his house at Green Gables [TS]

01:37:14   or pride and prejudice you're going to [TS]

01:37:19   follow such an incredibly different an [TS]

01:37:22   amazing path and I envy you [TS]

01:37:24   and I would never want to interrupt that [TS]

01:37:27   by saying read this book about airplanes [TS]

01:37:29   in a way you don't yeah and uh and so [TS]

01:37:34   and you know and that's part of the [TS]

01:37:35   weird weird [TS]

01:37:36   gender specificity of culture that you [TS]

01:37:42   know that in I and I don't understand [TS]

01:37:46   the process of like how much of it is [TS]

01:37:47   self-selecting how much of it is imposed [TS]

01:37:49   but are you there god it's me margaret [TS]

01:37:53   was a book that a lot of people in my [TS]

01:37:57   fifth-grade class read and talked about [TS]

01:38:00   and I read secretly because no boys were [TS]

01:38:07   supposed to read it [TS]

01:38:08   are you there it's me margaret was for [TS]

01:38:10   girls only [TS]

01:38:11   and this was before the the gender [TS]

01:38:14   division of toys and stuff you know what [TS]

01:38:16   did you read that article was like in [TS]

01:38:17   nineteen seventy five eighty percent of [TS]

01:38:20   toys were non-gender eyes it was like I [TS]

01:38:25   remember very much that being true for [TS]

01:38:26   things like games yeah and that would be [TS]

01:38:29   extremities you have the pink dolly [TS]

01:38:30   stuff over here and the machine gun [TS]

01:38:32   stuff over here but there was a lot more [TS]

01:38:33   stuff that was for like a better word [TS]

01:38:36   unisex yeah like here's a ball you want [TS]

01:38:38   to play a game with a ball it if you [TS]

01:38:40   want to play four square with it or you [TS]

01:38:41   want to play soccer you want to play can [TS]

01:38:43   I get you can play war baller nurse Paul [TS]

01:38:45   exactly but here's a ball [TS]

01:38:48   yeah right now every ball has either [TS]

01:38:49   frozen or GI joe stenciled on huh [TS]

01:38:53   um but at the butt but in fifth grade [TS]

01:38:55   boys did not read are you there god it's [TS]

01:38:58   me margaret and i did because I was [TS]

01:39:01   curious about it and I like to read [TS]

01:39:03   books and you know and so all the girl [TS]

01:39:07   books where it was like here you know [TS]

01:39:10   oh my god she got her period for the [TS]

01:39:12   first time I i read and was like who I [TS]

01:39:16   don't know what that is but that's what [TS]

01:39:18   I'm I'm happy for her [TS]

01:39:20   or am I meant to be sad for her I don't [TS]

01:39:22   know and it didn't you know that that [TS]

01:39:25   didn't that knowledge didn't turn me [TS]

01:39:26   into a the world's greatest lover it [TS]

01:39:29   turned me into something that was that [TS]

01:39:31   was wondering when I was gonna get my [TS]

01:39:32   part [TS]

01:39:34   [Music] [TS]