Roderick on the Line

Ep. 181: "Saltin' Up"

 

  pee bad [TS]

  oh hello hi John by Marlon that's going [TS]

  good how are you [TS]

  oh wait you said you sound good oh thank [TS]

  you i'm in a professional podcasting [TS]

  studio you are not [TS]

  yeah i would like I would like your [TS]

  voice to be turned up a little bit i'm [TS]

  going to look out the window and say to [TS]

  the person operating the board you turn [TS]

  up a turn up the Merlin oh my god I have [TS]

  so many questions [TS]

  yeah always that sounds better well [TS]

  that's good yeah this is happening in [TS]

  your RV no no i haven't built a [TS]

  professional podcast video in my RV and [TS]

  inside the American concrete building i [TS]

  am in humans had American well it turns [TS]

  out i got that wrong it's the American [TS]

  cement building [TS]

  oh i just learned this week that there's [TS]

  a difference yeah well so are minutes [TS]

  i'm in the cement building what you some [TS]

  great thank you [TS]

  what the hell's going on 1mon sm7b which [TS]

  as you know is you know my preferred [TS]

  microphone and I'm actually so where to [TS]

  begin so I don't you know I drove down [TS]

  to california in my GM CRP then i [TS]

  recently purchased you still there [TS]

  yeah yeah visiting I just started [TS]

  helping out in jail [TS]

  could you just one call em yes and so I [TS]

  get down here to California and I've got [TS]

  some rehearsals and some shows i'm gonna [TS]

  do you get all this stuff and I can was [TS]

  like oh yeah I'll just stay in the RV [TS]

  you know that i had a somebody gave me a [TS]

  podcasting microphone like one of those [TS]

  USB ones I was like I'm just gonna you [TS]

  know pull up in front of a cafe and i'll [TS]

  plug in my microphone in my laptop it's [TS]

  not going to sound great but but it will [TS]

  be a mobile kind of facility but I [TS]

  didn't mean what I didn't really plan [TS]

  for and I knew this already is that when [TS]

  you're living in an RV it's it's it it's [TS]

  not you're not living a normal life and [TS]

  it's kind of like when you when you buy [TS]

  your first volkswagen bug and then all [TS]

  of a sudden you see Volkswagen bugs [TS]

  everywhere you didn't know that they [TS]

  were there before you buy an RV and [TS]

  you're driving an RV and all the sudden [TS]

  you realize there's this whole RV [TS]

  ecosystem that your you just weren't [TS]

  seeing before and because there are [TS]

  multiple layers of an RV ecosystem and [TS]

  and when you're on the highways you see [TS]

  these beautiful rvs these big rich [TS]

  people are being that are traveling [TS]

  America's highways and byways and [TS]

  they're full of retirees and they they [TS]

  cost 200 thousand dollars but then when [TS]

  you get down into a city a city of any [TS]

  size you see the substrata of RV culture [TS]

  which is the people living in their RVs [TS]

  on the streets of your town is big here [TS]

  yeah really big in California so much so [TS]

  that street signs that i used to know he [TS]

  you pull up it into a parking spot and [TS]

  there's a street sign that's like five [TS]

  paragraphs long and formerly as an RV [TS]

  owners I would just skim the first three [TS]

  three sentences associated operator in a [TS]

  in a civilian car you don't need to read [TS]

  all that stuff you're talking you're not [TS]

  a monster [TS]

  what time is it what day is it let me [TS]

  let me figure out if I can park here but [TS]

  now as an RV owner you realize a lot of [TS]

  these signs particularly in that way [TS]

  they say things like no vehicles over [TS]

  eight feet tall and remembers think i [TS]

  ever saw that sign before it's a note is [TS]

  its privileged you never saw the [TS]

  discrimination that's right i just i was [TS]

  blind to it and then a signs that say no [TS]

  parking but from 8pm to 8am I was like [TS]

  what what would crazy sign they think [TS]

  you're a vagrant John they absolutely do [TS]

  so no sitting on the sidewalk for John [TS]

  know sitting on the sidewalk precisely [TS]

  and so then I started looking around and [TS]

  I see these people in their RVs and [TS]

  they're parked all over where they can [TS]

  get away with it and you know they're [TS]

  showering in people's like garden hose [TS]

  and it's like it's a whole it's a whole [TS]

  world they're not homeless because they [TS]

  have a they have a car [TS]

  with a bit in it uh-huh and now that's [TS]

  me so last night I slept on the corner [TS]

  of Melrose and somewhere no rosen and [TS]

  despair when I woke up this morning and [TS]

  people walking their dogs around me and [TS]

  that and scowling at me and I was like [TS]

  I'm a podcast today with murder one [TS]

  you know what I'll just just just whip [TS]

  up in front of a cafe somewhere now I'll [TS]

  hijack their Wi-Fi and then I'm in the [TS]

  RB and i'm driving around it's like wait [TS]

  a minute you don't whip up in front of [TS]

  anywhere in this thing you're not just [TS]

  you know just going to slide Indian an [TS]

  open spot you gonna slide anywhere [TS]

  pull up into a load load only zone and [TS]

  just my fingers on like this thing is [TS]

  it's like an aircraft carrier so I'm [TS]

  tooling around and it's like once you [TS]

  get moving you kind of can't stop you're [TS]

  in this sort of big whale shark of a [TS]

  pang and your mouth is open and you're [TS]

  swallowing krill and you can't you just [TS]

  you can't stop moving because if you do [TS]

  then [TS]

  and particularly in la if you sleeping [TS]

  slow down like just the mercedes-benz [TS]

  pile up behind you like red blood cells [TS]

  through a constricted artery so it's [TS]

  like to be dick cheney mm let's get to [TS]

  that is brutal and you know like I've [TS]

  always been in LA in a fast car and a [TS]

  fast-moving car even when I was in the [TS]

  tour van it was a fast-moving BAM [TS]

  now i'm going to slow van and you [TS]

  realize that la is not prepared for slow [TS]

  moving vehicles that there's a there's a [TS]

  complete it absolutely makes sense there [TS]

  is a flowchart here but it presumes that [TS]

  everyone is slipping and just absolutely [TS]

  flooring their gas pedal at every [TS]

  opportunity and so this thing's like / [TS]

  or and people just don't know what to do [TS]

  about it [TS]

  it's absolutely disrupting the system [TS]

  i'm sure i've been inside now for 45 [TS]

  minutes and i'm sure there's there are [TS]

  still traffic problems that i created [TS]

  what did you end up parking so if you [TS]

  can say so here i go i'm driving along [TS]

  I'm like what am I gonna do I want a [TS]

  podcast with Merlin I'm living in a van [TS]

  now I've become a coma I'm [TS]

  guy that has one Hawaiian shirt oh my [TS]

  goodness and doesn't your mat fully but [TS]

  yeah but i'm also trying to interact [TS]

  with people in the straight world this [TS]

  is the problem if I was fully in RV [TS]

  ecosystem then i would i would start to [TS]

  be one of the disappeared right and no [TS]

  one would know people wouldn't [TS]

  acknowledge me and I would be eating [TS]

  mostly in Honduras restaurants and I [TS]

  would be in this being a separate world [TS]

  uh-huh but i'm also trying to go to [TS]

  rehearsals into shows and be around [TS]

  people that stuff in LA because yeah in [TS]

  some ways you're transitioning into a [TS]

  kind of Transportation reassignment [TS]

  surgery you're very slowly moving into [TS]

  this new world and that's gonna be Rocky [TS]

  you need to you need to stand with one [TS]

  foot over here and another over there in [TS]

  a wheel in the middle and and you're not [TS]

  gonna be welcomed by I've seen these [TS]

  people moving packs got less than they [TS]

  got tribes hit and we we had a car trip [TS]

  over the weekend and we passed one of [TS]

  these places and the sticker prices on [TS]

  these things are crazy you know that the [TS]

  same time I was like you know what 439 [TS]

  thousand dollars you could have a really [TS]

  sweet house that you can drive [TS]

  that's right maybe it's my age i just [TS]

  turned 49 maybe it is my age but I find [TS]

  that extremely appealing and i would [TS]

  like to meet the tribe I would like some [TS]

  on during food and hawaiian shirt I can [TS]

  enjoy that yeah yeah it's all the [TS]

  freedom is unparalleled except need to [TS]

  park [TS]

  well they stick together because there's [TS]

  safety in numbers and the park all [TS]

  together and then they can like get [TS]

  electricity for themselves and and send [TS]

  their who and pee down a tube uh-huh [TS]

  but when your when your renegade when [TS]

  you're when you're off the RV grid [TS]

  rights and onto the neighbor the street [TS]

  grid you're a real rope you are your you [TS]

  are here between worlds person and you [TS]

  know and so I'm over it [TS]

  a friends house and they're like poop do [TS]

  and we're watching a movie and then [TS]

  they're like okay well goodnight and [TS]

  like three people walk out the door get [TS]

  into boobers that appear mysteriously [TS]

  and then poof they're off to an Airbnb [TS]

  somewhere and she's delivered [TS]

  yeah just there on their phone and [TS]

  they're like Amazon next day delivery [TS]

  POW and I'm like bringing them [TS]

  www and down to some kind of interest [TS]

  and a home depot parking lot and like [TS]

  trying to get my my raise my TV antenna [TS]

  with her bike chain that I rigged up so [TS]

  so anyway so I'm driving along this [TS]

  morning and I'm like what am I gonna do [TS]

  what am I gonna do I can't even slow [TS]

  down without the mercedes-benz piling up [TS]

  behind me there's no loading zones [TS]

  anywhere and I'm like who do I know in [TS]

  la that I can help me out of his body [TS]

  it's almost is there anybody who does [TS]

  podcast podcast in LA and I don't think [TS]

  there's that many people in LA to a [TS]

  podcast i could go to Michael bike back [TS]

  to call Michael Penn Michael pan and say [TS]

  hey can I use your studio but you know [TS]

  what he's in there making soundtracks [TS]

  all the time if I were Romeo and black [TS]

  jeans [TS]

  what if I were heat cliff is no myth you [TS]

  get Marc Maron he's got a garage but his [TS]

  neighbors always running the weed [TS]

  whacker will see him you know marks [TS]

  never invited me on his program [TS]

  me neither so how did I think you're sol [TS]

  you're gonna have to go with eng you go [TS]

  to go to orange county is probably [TS]

  podcasters orange county right [TS]

  podcasters in orange county but they're [TS]

  all wearing chuck taylors and their [TS]

  podcasts are really you know like super [TS]

  like compressed high-energy podcasts [TS]

  oh yea high mids right so what you're [TS]

  doing so i called my good friend Jesse [TS]

  thorn of the maximum fun podcast network [TS]

  and I said hey you guys podcast and he [TS]

  was like as a matter of fact we do and [TS]

  we haven't putting this many [TS]

  unfortunately we have address scrapbook [TS]

  and so I took the elevator lady occur [TS]

  that well you know he does have he does [TS]

  have quite a few menswear accessories in [TS]

  the office including a poncho is a [TS]

  podcasting poncho he has a podcasting [TS]

  poncho everything about jesse is exactly [TS]

  well it's it's exactly dialed in say [TS]

  what you will about Jesse that men think [TS]

  stuff through he's thinking he's jesus [TS]

  he's a wise grown-up he's he was [TS]

  probably born a grown-up you well you [TS]

  know I bet he's always been 63 [TS]

  prematurely aged you um he had he has a [TS]

  steamer clothes steamer in his bathroom [TS]

  here [TS]

  he has a very long beard now which is [TS]

  made of 100-percent alpaca uh anyway so [TS]

  jesse was like well I'm not in the [TS]

  office right now but I'm headed there [TS]

  and so I come down to this place in the [TS]

  American cement building which is an [TS]

  actual office building in an actual [TS]

  downtown area [TS]

  I go upstairs I knocked on the door and [TS]

  they're they're our desks and people [TS]

  working in the maximum fun network [TS]

  they're there for employees at their [TS]

  desks and I got together probably doing [TS]

  tech support or something they're only [TS]

  answer your question about samsung [TS]

  phones they're working on their computer [TS]

  you can make money from our podcast and [TS]

  I'm telling you it's a network that's [TS]

  unlike any other podcasts and ft [TS]

  that's the difference yeah if it's what [TS]

  it is it's like it's like China you you [TS]

  may carry you make a bit of volume [TS]

  discount [TS]

  absolutely so I come in of course no one [TS]

  in the office knew that I was coming [TS]

  there are like oh hello and then and so [TS]

  I'm here and I just put my arms and I [TS]

  have children but i didn't mention [TS]

  anybody that I was here to do a podcast [TS]

  I was just like oh yeah and you know and [TS]

  don't know the people that knew me [TS]

  already were just like oh well I guess [TS]

  this is normal this john rocker x here [TS]

  Justin showed up and now is making some [TS]

  chitchat with us eating doughnuts and [TS]

  then just he waltzed in and we we did [TS]

  some technical we did some technical [TS]

  work and there's just joshing aside [TS]

  there's a legitimate engineer sitting [TS]

  here watching me through this last this [TS]

  is brand-new ridiculous i I just have to [TS]

  say you're joshing aside just the best [TS]

  and I cannot believe that that worked [TS]

  out so quickly and thank you to jesse [TS]

  and team was not one super cool is that [TS]

  out we have we've done shoutouts to the [TS]

  maximum fun network of podcast I don't [TS]

  like to mention other things on the show [TS]

  I know you don't I think it's think it's [TS]

  unseemly it's a little woozy [TS]

  it's gratuitous little gratuitous [TS]

  shoutout whoo yeah here's a little shout [TS]

  out but in this case they don't really [TS]

  really going above and beyond [TS]

  they still making cement there are they [TS]

  administering cement so here's the thing [TS]

  about the American cement building i [TS]

  believe that it's called that because [TS]

  it's made of cement see [TS]

  they're smart you know what they're good [TS]

  with in la is branding and all its all [TS]

  right on there it's it's a company that [TS]

  sells cement in America look just just [TS]

  look at the building [TS]

  well that's that's the thing i don't [TS]

  even know if there was an American [TS]

  cement company although I guess they're [TS]

  probably was but the building really [TS]

  showcases the power of cement important [TS]

  cement is I do it's extremely expensive [TS]

  but it you know i heard a thing about [TS]

  this i heard a podcast about this about [TS]

  cement and how important so how [TS]

  important cement wait let me get this [TS]

  right you got cement you got concrete [TS]

  cement is the stuff you it's like that's [TS]

  the important ingredient right you got a [TS]

  bunch of rocks you got some water [TS]

  there's cement and concrete but there's [TS]

  not concrete and cement precisely cell [TS]

  and apparently this is something where [TS]

  turns out a lot of times when you want [TS]

  to cut corners because some it is so [TS]

  costly signal back to the copper pipe [TS]

  issue i think they go a little short on [TS]

  the cement building falls down it will [TS]

  generally put extra sand or extra like [TS]

  oatmeal or something and it could be [TS]

  oatmeal could be to be so could be a [TS]

  Satan i think it's called the decision [TS]

  any kind of hit kind of good grades are [TS]

  rotating lot of lot of protein but it's [TS]

  not gonna be good for chinese building [TS]

  right well and in this case it's built [TS]

  its built-in a very distinctive like [TS]

  latticework sixties latticework that is [TS]

  slightly reminiscent of the World Trade [TS]

  Center I'm but but more but it's more [TS]

  scenes sturdier it's less trying to say [TS]

  it's not less emulating birds in flight [TS]

  and more saying like this is a this is [TS]

  like a like a lattice and natural [TS]

  lattice maybe a DNA helix oh my goodness [TS]

  was turned into a building [TS]

  ok i'm looking at it now ok this is this [TS]

  is this is a big deal it's a nice place [TS]

  it's really big noise future saying it [TS]

  looks kind of like it looks a little bit [TS]

  like a shitty grill like you get a park [TS]

  that kind of lattice except as a [TS]

  building that's the building [TS]

  it's like at least like seven eight [TS]

  stories high no I'm on the 9th floor and [TS]

  there's who there's floors above me I [TS]

  think there's 14 Florida oh this is [TS]

  beautiful it I what I what I think it is [TS]

  it's it's exactly the same lattice that [TS]

  you would use if you were doing inside [TS]

  someone's artery and opening it up after [TS]

  and filled with black it's a building [TS]

  made of stents it's a stint that's right [TS]

  square stand you know what you don't [TS]

  like about this John Rocket sub [TS]

  brutalist it's not it's not full on [TS]

  brutalist it's not truly brutal and just [TS]

  kind of aggressive it's the right it [TS]

  would be at home in a in Brasilia yes [TS]

  but it would also be at home stay here [TS]

  in LA [TS]

  I've got a lot of people climb this [TS]

  thing it looks really climbable Shh [TS]

  sorry my bad we get in trouble pencil so [TS]

  that's my saga Here I am halfway through [TS]

  a an RV adventure my first my debut RV [TS]

  adventure and I'm in a downtown [TS]

  podcasting office [TS]

  well here's the thing I we've known each [TS]

  other for over a decade now and there's [TS]

  a question I I don't ask too often [TS]

  because it's none of my fucking business [TS]

  but what the hell are you doing [TS]

  mhm mhm you like I keep my powder dry [TS]

  for that 1i bring that one out every [TS]

  couple years it's yeah my biannual [TS]

  question what the hell are you doing [TS]

  right now are you in a few expect so [TS]

  here's looking at call someone [TS]

  this is very confusing to me so did I [TS]

  tell you that I went to see a [TS]

  psychiatrist [TS]

  don't mention this yeah you did yeah you [TS]

  actually talked about it on air and it [TS]

  sound like you were giving a game [TS]

  attempt do you say in your words but [TS]

  it's not like you're it was a game [TS]

  attempt to say okay let's give this a [TS]

  throw [TS]

  sure let's give this a try and so so the [TS]

  psychiatrist it gave me a whole saga [TS]

  about bipolar 2 and we're going to give [TS]

  you some anti-seizure medication because [TS]

  inexplicably that works and bipolar to [TS]

  no one knows why also works for ADHD is [TS]

  that right that's right that's right we [TS]

  talked about that so i started taking [TS]

  this stuff in it look 4a and I went [TS]

  through the whole thing I was like all [TS]

  the things that I normally would would [TS]

  not do like for instance when he said we [TS]

  need to take it for two weeks at a very [TS]

  minut dose just to make sure you're not [TS]

  allergic to [TS]

  yeah and I was like ah that's so [TS]

  laborious is it all of our cut the size [TS]

  a little maybe [TS]

  ok does that seem like a good little [TS]

  Goodman and I said that's a that is an [TS]

  antiserum it [TS]

  vacation with a black box warning that [TS]

  basically watch out for the first week [TS]

  because you may get a deadly skin [TS]

  disease there it is that's the one limit [TS]

  all start with like half start you start [TS]

  real real low you ramp up and then you [TS]

  wrap the shit down right when you take [TS]

  that super interesting i took that we [TS]

  did for several years [TS]

  oh you did oh yeah oh ok well we know [TS]

  anyway why don't we interrupt this is [TS]

  your story but I also i will give you a [TS]

  wonderful analogy that my shrink gave me [TS]

  for how it works [TS]

  ok yeah so anyway you got a black box [TS]

  warning you talk to the shrink [TS]

  yeah jesus christ is fascinating well so [TS]

  yeah right now in our podcast has never [TS]

  been let's compare medications podcast [TS]

  but I'll that everything's kind of [TS]

  podcast i love that [TS]

  yeah it's good it's good that we're [TS]

  breaking off so I'm taking this stuff [TS]

  I've never taken a a psychological [TS]

  medication before right except like it [TS]

  but you know back in the day at parties [TS]

  people be like I'm on lithium and I'd be [TS]

  like really give me four and it gave me [TS]

  for lithium and then there'd be this [TS]

  uncomfortable screaming in my head and [TS]

  I'm like I don't want to take that [TS]

  that's the street name for that they [TS]

  call that something up [TS]

  yeah that doing some salt ok let's get [TS]

  salty and and then people would say like [TS]

  well that's not a lithium works you [TS]

  don't just take four of them and like [TS]

  get a buzz that's that's not that's [TS]

  harsh my mellow as well and I was like [TS]

  you and then everybody's antidepressants [TS]

  I would always like I would always take [TS]

  a handful of them to see what they did [TS]

  and that's not how they work and so I [TS]

  was just like I don't want to take any [TS]

  of that stuff it's all bad it makes it's [TS]

  like taking msg but anyway so this is [TS]

  the first time I've ever taken at some [TS]

  kind of medication that's meant to [TS]

  affect my whatever my personality my [TS]

  personality and but I did that I did [TS]

  what he said I took it two weeks at this [TS]

  my new dose I was just so bored of that [TS]

  but I'm like you're trying to be you try [TS]

  to like join the normals you're trying [TS]

  to be a snork like just do it do what [TS]

  they say when i started to take a little [TS]

  bit more two weeks at a little bit more [TS]

  and I was just like this is just come on [TS]

  let's get to the good part [TS]

  right in it you do have to take it super [TS]

  slowly and I'm still your story [TS]

  it takes a while for it to do anything [TS]

  mm because you've got to get to the [TS]

  target dose which you want to do super [TS]

  slowly so you don't die from the skin [TS]

  thing right I want to get the skin thing [TS]

  so then I get up to the minimum what he [TS]

  described as the minimum therapeutic [TS]

  dose and he said if you do not have [TS]

  bipolar disorder you can take this stuff [TS]

  all day and won't do anything to you it [TS]

  doesn't have any there's no side effects [TS]

  and it doesn't it does not active on [TS]

  someone it just has some effect that we [TS]

  don't we don't understand and cannot [TS]

  quantify what does have him and [TS]

  measurable effect on people that suffer [TS]

  from this this condition which we also [TS]

  don't understand about you very much [TS]

  pitch everything you love about medicine [TS]

  in one paragraph yeah I was just like [TS]

  great [TS]

  well shit why don't we throw eggs at the [TS]

  wall we don't think we don't we don't [TS]

  exactly know what's wrong with you but [TS]

  we have a name for it and drug that may [TS]

  or may not work we invented a name for [TS]

  it and now i'm sitting here because I [TS]

  went to college for a long time whoo [TS]

  and anyway so I'm taking this stuff and [TS]

  then in the course of a very short [TS]

  amount of time i wrote a song i sent it [TS]

  to a man she recorded it and is now [TS]

  talking about putting it on a new record [TS]

  and then I bought an RV off of a like a [TS]

  parking lot in the rain from a guy and [TS]

  was like great [TS]

  here's the money and then I drove it off [TS]

  that Todd was like now I own this [TS]

  yeah and I've been making some very very [TS]

  exciting decisions across the whole [TS]

  broad spectrum of my life that are just [TS]

  that seem like great decision and I'm [TS]

  very excited by them and then at a [TS]

  certain point about two weeks and I was [TS]

  like hey there there seems to be a there [TS]

  seems to be a pattern [TS]

  um the all the all these decisions are [TS]

  like there-there they're fairly dramatic [TS]

  dick but I feel great about them and i'm [TS]

  sleeping well it's not like I'm it's not [TS]

  like I'm in a manic state where I'm [TS]

  always sleeping three hours a day like [TS]

  getting a full night's sleep but i am [TS]

  i'm absolutely exhibited signs these are [TS]

  these are all choices i would make when [TS]

  i was on a on a on a tear [TS]

  let's say yeah but but i don't i'm not i [TS]

  don't feel like i'm suffering the the [TS]

  other symptoms of a manic episode which [TS]

  are then I don't sleep that I forget to [TS]

  eat that I you know I'm not like [TS]

  gambling a lot right but in and you know [TS]

  sometimes at two o'clock in the morning [TS]

  I'll go on ebay and I by five or six [TS]

  different patches from world war two [TS]

  veteran like last man standing clubs but [TS]

  that seems normal [TS]

  so anyway it's it all seems very related [TS]

  i don't know if i would have the the [TS]

  gumption to buy an RV and and then set [TS]

  off driving into California with almost [TS]

  no preparation I don't think I would do [TS]

  that in in a depressed state but it also [TS]

  like I'm handling things that I when the [TS]

  water pump blew up in eugene i didn't [TS]

  just walk away from it and get on a [TS]

  train right like I fixed it and so so [TS]

  I'm I feel like I'm i am part of an [TS]

  experiment right now her and maybe maybe [TS]

  it's maybe I'm the experiment and the [TS]

  experimenter but I'm and I'm taking [TS]

  medication and I making some making some [TS]

  adventure choices must be an exciting [TS]

  time [TS]

  well we'll see we'll see six months from [TS]

  now because i did i did get a call for [TS]

  climbing the American cement company but [TS]

  i did get a call from my accountant [TS]

  recently and she said you don't have any [TS]

  money [TS]

  you ran for public office earlier this [TS]

  her and you didn't make any money doing [TS]

  that that's a call you don't get you [TS]

  spent all you spent money doing that and [TS]

  not only that but everything you did [TS]

  everything you bought when you're [TS]

  running for office you can't deduct the [TS]

  duck many of them [TS]

  Oh God and then you just stopped running [TS]

  for office just what couple of months [TS]

  ago and you had it's not like you had a [TS]

  it's not like he had a wall of money [TS]

  that you that you needed to unlock that [TS]

  was motivating rather than depressive [TS]

  yes well yeah but what she was saying [TS]

  was your in California in an RV in a [TS]

  40-year old RV and and you are out of [TS]

  money so choose wisely choose wisely [TS]

  what I'm what things you buy at autozone [TS]

  like don't just go in and buy cup [TS]

  holders for the whole RV if you need a [TS]

  cup holder by one but don't kid it all [TS]

  out you know like I have to have to be [TS]

  choosy right now so that's where I'm at [TS]

  wow you're having sometimes and [TS]

  sometimes i'm gonna i'm gonna do some [TS]

  shows in LA with aimee mann im gonna [TS]

  come up to San Francisco and do some [TS]

  shows with Amy and their yea year and is [TS]

  gonna be there not going to be there and [TS]

  liz phair we may get a babysitter and [TS]

  come to that Jonathan Coulton also yep [TS]

  heard of him and then we're going to fly [TS]

  across the country to boston and i'm [TS]

  going to leave the RV in San Francisco [TS]

  somewhere and no one I know everyone i [TS]

  know in San Francisco lives in a in a in [TS]

  an apartment basically you know [TS]

  townhouse [TS]

  yeah no RV parking at your house for [TS]

  instance which talk because there are [TS]

  and there are streets where people park [TS]

  their RVs sure but I don't know if I'm I [TS]

  don't know if I could live there two [TS]

  weeks is a long time that's a long time [TS]

  you need a friend who moved it for you [TS]

  yeah that's right we need a friend with [TS]

  the daughter who wanted to go for a ride [TS]

  in an RV across the Golden help you as a [TS]

  friend with a daughter who won't stop [TS]

  talking about when Uncle John will be [TS]

  here he should come for at least a [TS]

  couple days because i really want to [TS]

  ride around the yeah well and and one of [TS]

  the great one of the great enticements [TS]

  of the RV is that it was a it was it was [TS]

  restored [TS]

  let's call it restored in the eighties [TS]

  during a time when one of the popular [TS]

  upholstery colors was something i call [TS]

  black berry smoothie yeah black berry [TS]

  smoothie with an extra dollop of yogurt [TS]

  so it's like pinky pinky purple and it [TS]

  really it really makes the the fake wood [TS]

  grain paneling it really makes it pop [TS]

  over so I people a lot of people might [TS]

  make a decision like that makes it look [TS]

  a little over-the-top i'm guessing it [TS]

  looks very accurate for the period [TS]

  it looks accurate for the period up it [TS]

  looks accurate for the period that it [TS]

  was restored right it doesn't look [TS]

  accurate for the 1975 in 1975 it would [TS]

  have all been like orange it's pretty [TS]

  much every apartment i've ever lived in [TS]

  we're like you kinda wish it looked the [TS]

  way it looked when it was built if you [TS]

  get all man mid-century modern yeah but [TS]

  you know they had a couple extra grand [TS]

  in 1975 and these did it yeah yeah [TS]

  that's exactly right it was like 80 it [TS]

  was like 84 and the guy had a deal [TS]

  he went to the point where java cotton [TS]

  refrigerator see that here he was like [TS]

  get those out of here yet it yet it he [TS]

  had like a maybe had a credit at the [TS]

  discount carpet where I was expiring and [TS]

  he's the credit that's right and the [TS]

  people there were like you know we got a [TS]

  huge order a for like carpet for the [TS]

  ramada inn and we have like a couple of [TS]

  extra rolls just enough to do a movie so [TS]

  there's a little bit of a robot a little [TS]

  bit of a convention center carpet and [TS]

  and then this black berry smoothie [TS]

  upholstery it's a it's a sight to behold [TS]

  this sounds like a very exciting time [TS]

  yeah it's a wonderful time so that was [TS]

  that the surprise [TS]

  Oh of the surprise i said i have [TS]

  surprise [TS]

  well the surprise was that I was going [TS]

  to call you from maximum fun had that's [TS]

  so cool [TS]

  ya casi question of course um so if you [TS]

  are open to considering the idea that [TS]

  there are times in the past when you've [TS]

  been more up and down [TS]

  yeah mom at app when you look back on [TS]

  this times can you recognize in [TS]

  retrospect that you were a little bit up [TS]

  at the time but when you look back at [TS]

  like a couple three episodes from the [TS]

  past whatever 10 15 20 years are you [TS]

  able to look at you oh yeah I was [TS]

  probably a little bit manic yeah yeah I [TS]

  mean now that you've maybe got a name [TS]

  for it maybe provisional [TS]

  can you kind of see it it's easier to [TS]

  see the times when you're really [TS]

  cratering who I'm because you just leave [TS]

  a much darker streak on the on the on [TS]

  your personal timeline [TS]

  it's like stick your thumb on the ink [TS]

  pad and just scraping across those three [TS]

  months of the calendar right just like [TS]

  lork yep but when you when you start to [TS]

  of in my case when I start to put [TS]

  together the like well that was the [TS]

  summer that I burned because I was [TS]

  depressed and they didn't nothing [TS]

  happened and that was them that was a [TS]

  dark time and then that was a and then [TS]

  over here that was a dark time and then [TS]

  you look at the times in between and you [TS]

  know there's some normalcy in there but [TS]

  there's also like oh that's kind of when [TS]

  i recorded the first long winters record [TS]

  and you know oh right so I was really [TS]

  depressed for four months and then there [TS]

  are a couple of months in there and then [TS]

  I recorded a record where I was like [TS]

  what i wrote a bunch of songs and was in [TS]

  the studio 18 hours a day and then I was [TS]

  normal for a while and then I was really [TS]

  depressed you can't show Oh maybe maybe [TS]

  those maybe I made those records and [TS]

  went on those long long long crazy tours [TS]

  and walked across Europe and rode a [TS]

  motorcycle you know from Seattle to [TS]

  Kansas without any tools or luggage and [TS]

  certainly that's seven-sided like that [TS]

  sucks appear [TS]

  yeah and you're like well maybe there's [TS]

  a connection between those things to [TS]

  write which which I always felt like was [TS]

  just my normal personality and and I was [TS]

  plagued by depression which felt like a [TS]

  foreigner rights which people i have [TS]

  this is not clinical advice I'm just [TS]

  saying things I've heard and I've heard [TS]

  that is from people who know these [TS]

  things that bipolar is frequently [TS]

  misdiagnosed as depression and then you [TS]

  end up giving almost exactly the wrong [TS]

  drugs as a result so i never i had [TS]

  several manic episodes where it was [TS]

  clearly where I was clearly peaking and [TS]

  people [TS]

  would say things to me like are you like [TS]

  are you sure like um you know where I [TS]

  was very much and you know I never went [TS]

  to vegas and like gambled my house but [TS]

  you know several episodes like that but [TS]

  for the most part when I was high when I [TS]

  was having when I was not feeling mania [TS]

  that felt great and normal felt like the [TS]

  person I wanted to be so I never [TS]

  diagnosed those as a problem and the [TS]

  only reason that it's that I even went [TS]

  to a psychiatrist was that those times [TS]

  had been getting lower and lower like it [TS]

  wasn't it the depression the depressions [TS]

  were getting lower and lower but also I [TS]

  wasn't ever soaring right and so he [TS]

  looks like overtime just to be clear you [TS]

  like when you look back out at six [TS]

  months a year or whatever later you know [TS]

  we see I like your notion of the crater [TS]

  as a creator cannot only be deep but [TS]

  wide and you can kind of gauge like how [TS]

  hard that your head for him or for how [TS]

  long right [TS]

  we think about like losing a summer or [TS]

  something even look at that in [TS]

  retrospect an identifier for what it was [TS]

  yeah and how bad it was yeah and it felt [TS]

  like well there's three that's three [TS]

  months that that's gone but that's not [TS]

  that big of a deal [TS]

  um it's not that big a deal to lose [TS]

  three months [TS]

  it doesn't feel worth taking medicine [TS]

  I'm because it's not it's not three [TS]

  months out of every six it's like three [TS]

  months every couple of years or three [TS]

  months every 18 months but when I [TS]

  stopped when I stop getting them the [TS]

  peaks like for the last five years the [TS]

  best I was was coping coping was like [TS]

  the best I could report and the rest of [TS]

  the time I was scraping just just [TS]

  scraping the undercarriage on them on [TS]

  the on-ramp like like going to whether [TS]

  it wasn't enough to stop the vehicle but [TS]

  I definitely made the right less fun [TS]

  well you can just like you just know [TS]

  you're doing damage you're doing damage [TS]

  to the under care [TS]

  right and so going in and talking to the [TS]

  to this guy and hearing him say like the [TS]

  problem with bipolar is as you get older [TS]

  your bottoms get lower and your tops get [TS]

  lower to the was just like that's [TS]

  exactly what it feels like [TS]

  so anyway I'm taking this crazy stuff [TS]

  and like I don't feel anymore i don't [TS]

  feel medicated at all i just feel very [TS]

  very faintly the very edge of my [TS]

  periphery a kind of twinkle or or buzzed [TS]

  his maybe like it just a tiny little bit [TS]

  of not static but some awareness at the [TS]

  edge of my vision that there's something [TS]

  different huh [TS]

  and it feels a little bit in some ways [TS]

  like like a supporting hand so [TS]

  interesting you should say that one [TS]

  thing it's a lot like Buddhism you don't [TS]

  really you don't really you don't really [TS]

  notice what normal feels like until you [TS]

  don't have it anymore and the easiest [TS]

  example that anybody can call to mind is [TS]

  when you suddenly get a terrible cold [TS]

  and you get one of those that is a cold [TS]

  but that kind of like where you're [TS]

  wrecked or two or three weeks and 4 1st [TS]

  for another and it's not the same thing [TS]

  it's an analogy but you you feel like [TS]

  you're getting worse and worse and worse [TS]

  and worse or source and then finally at [TS]

  some point like three weeks in you have [TS]

  a day where you wake up and you feel [TS]

  this is a very important phrase in my [TS]

  life where you feel less bad like his [TS]

  mother called hey are you three feeling [TS]

  better and i would say you know i'm not [TS]

  feeling better but I'm feeling less bad [TS]

  and that's a nice day because you [TS]

  realize if there's a possibility at that [TS]

  point you don't know how long you're [TS]

  going to be sick but you do know that if [TS]

  you're feeling a little bit less bad day [TS]

  after day that's a really good trend and [TS]

  finally maybe three or four days and you [TS]

  wake up and you don't feel normal [TS]

  but you don't feel like you're getting [TS]

  sicker and you feel like it's just [TS]

  getting closer to what normal might feel [TS]

  like you're still sick but you don't [TS]

  feel engulfed by the sickness [TS]

  mhm that's what that reminds me of is [TS]

  that feeling of like you know I'm not [TS]

  high but I'm feeling a little bit more [TS]

  normal and normal actually feels weird [TS]

  now because this is not what I've been [TS]

  used to i'm not used to [TS]

  feeling depressed or anxious all the [TS]

  time like this seems strange should be [TS]

  depressed and anxious about this [TS]

  no well it didn't stick that's [TS]

  interesting this seems like a good trend [TS]

  yeah and also and also just be super [TS]

  quickly what the string that said to me [TS]

  about what that stuff does lipitor and [TS]

  why are we putting it out so that no I [TS]

  don't think so [TS]

  all right little O mcdonnell/the [TS]

  wouldn't order to look at or help your [TS]

  dick cheney heart are you think it helps [TS]

  your heart fats ya the way he described [TS]

  it was if you can imagine that you're an [TS]

  easy you know I admittedly this is again [TS]

  another analogy a big analogy but if you [TS]

  think about your personality being a [TS]

  roughly the consistency of like unfixed [TS]

  gelatin you think about it in a box [TS]

  the problem is a lot of the ways that we [TS]

  the feelings that we get the personality [TS]

  aspects that we get 10 to look like we [TS]

  find a lot of that gelatin kind of going [TS]

  down to this one end of the box and the [TS]

  problem is when you're trying to deal [TS]

  with something like bipolar you don't [TS]

  want to give somebody so much stuff that [TS]

  makes all the jelly fly to the other end [TS]

  what you want is it just you can almost [TS]

  think you think about it just gelatin [TS]

  almost like pizza dough where you want [TS]

  this thing to be this the same flatness [TS]

  all-around not to be without effect but [TS]

  to not have big second bits are huge [TS]

  spikes and that's what this the stuff [TS]

  does it's not gonna make you feel [TS]

  hi it's not going to give you a rush [TS]

  just in the sense that it's going to [TS]

  keep you from having lows and highs and [TS]

  it just happens that you get people for [TS]

  I think grand mal seizures and it seems [TS]

  to kind of work for some people off [TS]

  label especially for the side effects of [TS]

  ADHD medicines but even by itself it can [TS]

  help people [TS]

  I believe this is not medicine please [TS]

  but i like you know go see doctor please [TS]

  but but i can't help people who have [TS]

  some personality balance issues he [TS]

  thinks i to me that's least in my head [TS]

  maybe i need more medicine but that's [TS]

  that's that's kind of the package that's [TS]

  what you're looking for in a day where [TS]

  you feel less shitty is a good day even [TS]

  if you don't feel awesome because you [TS]

  know what feeling too awesome is not a [TS]

  great day as you've learned [TS]

  yes well so I'm kind of wrestling now [TS]

  with the question is is my I'll i always [TS]

  used to feel that my normal personality [TS]

  was [TS]

  capable at any moment of buying an RV [TS]

  and driving off the lot to California [TS]

  that just felt like who I was [TS]

  some people are waiting to get jumped in [TS]

  an alley other people are waiting to [TS]

  fall in love just knowing it could be [TS]

  somebody out there when I walk into a [TS]

  room I could meet my mate for life you [TS]

  you're walking around you know this [TS]

  could be the day this week the day is [TS]

  gonna be the RV day I might fall in love [TS]

  with an RB today I might actually I met [TS]

  blender truck stop and fall in love with [TS]

  a girl and take her in the RV but when [TS]

  it but so now i'm now I'm wondering [TS]

  basically I don't want to go back to the [TS]

  psychiatrist because I sit down in the [TS]

  psychiatrist's office and I say and he's [TS]

  like how's it going [TS]

  I think great great i mean amazing and i [TS]

  start to report some of the things that [TS]

  I've been doing [TS]

  haha right he might say whoa whoa [TS]

  we have got to adjust the dosage because [TS]

  that also that seems a little radical [TS]

  and he say hang on a minute give me a [TS]

  projector have a 193 slide presentation [TS]

  I'd like to show you but it's got [TS]

  animations gonna guess that found out on [TS]

  that exactly have you first of all what [TS]

  you need to do is follow me on instagram [TS]

  but second of all um no I don't want to [TS]

  adjust the medication like I'm very [TS]

  intrigued by this present amount of what [TS]

  feels like a fairly stable state which [TS]

  is elevated over any recent like stable [TS]

  level that I've had in the last five [TS]

  years and if that is the new normal for [TS]

  me that's wonderful and i will keep [TS]

  taking exactly this dosage I don't want [TS]

  anymore I don't want any less I'm just [TS]

  fine [TS]

  like let me work this out myself i may [TS]

  go bankrupt [TS]

  I'm a for a while have three or four [TS]

  different vintage fill sandbags coming [TS]

  in the mail from ebay that i bought in [TS]

  the middle of the night and i can i can [TS]

  i can find a home for those and i can [TS]

  make more money just let me work this [TS]

  out [TS]

  don't don't mess around with me but he [TS]

  may say like no this is a dangerous like [TS]

  basically buying a vintage RV is one of [TS]

  the signs in the dsm-5 that a person is [TS]

  over medicated and I don't want to hear [TS]

  that this hacker to buy vintage RV daily [TS]

  for more than six months just feel like [TS]

  don't mess around with me right now I'm [TS]

  okay it's not a thing you know it does [TS]

  not feel at all like this is a [TS]

  medication that I would want to abuse [TS]

  i'm never gonna take two of them because [TS]

  I don't feel it i just feel it would be [TS]

  it would be like wanting to take more [TS]

  penicillin [TS]

  yeah right exactly you're looking to [TS]

  take more antabuse it's like it's not [TS]

  gonna it's not gonna be that fun but [TS]

  we'll see [TS]

  right i mean because they're there are [TS]

  plenty of instances in the past where it [TS]

  felt very normal but I was in a mania [TS]

  and i did wake up in Morocco and if i [TS]

  wake up in Morocco at any point I know [TS]

  that I've gone too far right buddy you [TS]

  need you need to give these bullet [TS]

  points to a buddy right it's sort of [TS]

  like you know what you know saying like [TS]

  you want if i come to you and say let's [TS]

  go to Morocco no matter how kind of what [TS]

  you hear in there don't open the [TS]

  two-dimensional after 11pm you know to [TS]

  lock me in in the in the bathroom if you [TS]

  receive a collect call from Morocco and [TS]

  I'm asking you to buy a filter bag for [TS]

  me right there are the net [TS]

  that's right throw the net call Interpol [TS]

  so so it so anyway the next few months [TS]

  are going to be very interesting [TS]

  yeah we'll just see how that will see [TS]

  how this pans out [TS]

  i'm here at maximum fun i feel like i [TS]

  could just live here [TS]

  I feel like they could you know there's [TS]

  a there's an empty desk feel like I [TS]

  could settle in [TS]

  I bet they'd love that great would be [TS]

  just be walking around people John [TS]

  what's going to I got to get going we're [TS]

  all you know over the old American [TS]

  cement company building [TS]

  yeah I would love to say that I got a [TS]

  desk over there the problem is as you [TS]

  know i'm i'm useless for doing jobs [TS]

  yours until you stop don't you stop that [TS]

  John Roderick you useless for most jobs [TS]

  let's be honest but there's probably [TS]

  there's a very special place for a very [TS]

  special little guy out there [TS]

  yeah you know food maybe maybe just he [TS]

  would get a little matching but slightly [TS]

  small [TS]

  autodesk matching his desk and then [TS]

  scooted up so that hit the small [TS]

  slightly smaller desk was facing his [TS]

  desk so I would sit and look at him [TS]

  while i was working and he would come [TS]

  and he would love that he would look [TS]

  he'd be looking at it at the that the [TS]

  pictures of his family on the desk [TS]

  trying to avoid eye contact with me [TS]

  yeah you know after six or eight weeks i [TS]

  bet that'd be even more fun and he's [TS]

  super into it i have a desk blotter and [TS]

  I would just be sketching him all day [TS]

  but you could cowork maybe until they [TS]

  find the right position for you and that [TS]

  maximum fun Corp but maybe you could [TS]

  work i'm watching just be thrown at his [TS]

  desk right now through you kidding me [TS]

  he's not he doesn't he doesn't know i'm [TS]

  watching see podcasting he's looking at [TS]

  a computer [TS]

  his hands are poised on the keyboard but [TS]

  he's not pushing any buttons what he's [TS]

  out know he had a finger poised over [TS]

  some I bet his up at his hands are very [TS]

  very supple their soft bodies a gentle [TS]

  lover but you're gonna be the one [TS]

  working there you'll find out [TS]

  that's right i mean he's always pulling [TS]

  on his beard now he's now he's like [TS]

  pushing on his I the sides of his eyes [TS]

  which is a weird save some of this for [TS]

  your show with Dan you're right you're [TS]

  right i'm so this is an exciting time I [TS]

  but you know let's keep it positive for [TS]

  a minute just for a minute first of all [TS]

  congratulations on writing some stuff [TS]

  oh yeah thank you that's been a total [TS]

  you've been pushing for a while and that [TS]

  must be a great feeling well it was a [TS]

  little weird I wrote it I was writing [TS]

  this song and it was definitely like a [TS]

  song for me it was a song where I was [TS]

  exploring some of the major themes of my [TS]

  work sitting at the piano when I was [TS]

  writing slow dirge about how love is a [TS]

  shitshow and then I got to a point you [TS]

  should send that one to Pat Benatar love [TS]

  is a shit no is a shitshow don't get to [TS]

  people i don't think pad is taking [TS]

  submissions now but I was talking to Amy [TS]

  separately and she was like I'm working [TS]

  on a new record and herpa derpa derp and [TS]

  and then I was separately writing this [TS]

  song and I you know and and I was going [TS]

  through my normal process which was i [TS]

  wrote a thing i liked it then I was [TS]

  trying to make it better and I couldn't [TS]

  make it better [TS]

  I was trying to try this i tried that [TS]

  that word was wrong i tried to make it [TS]

  better and i just made it worse was kind [TS]

  of falling down all around me a little [TS]

  bit of a sugar castle and I got to that [TS]

  point where I was like I thought that I [TS]

  was onto something i thought i had [TS]

  written a good thing but it turns out [TS]

  that it's garbage and there's no way [TS]

  through here I can't get to the other [TS]

  side and I kind of set it aside and then [TS]

  for whatever reason [TS]

  possibly because I've been doing that [TS]

  for for several years possibly this [TS]

  lipitor not actually lipitor let me [TS]

  limit or ask your doctor if whatever [TS]

  this is right for you [TS]

  um cause me to go back to this this like [TS]

  unformed slightly dissolved song and I i [TS]

  went back to it and took it apart [TS]

  basically eliminated almost all the [TS]

  lyrics but but used keywords to write a [TS]

  new set of words that were way better [TS]

  and then the chorus suggested itself and [TS]

  all of a sudden I had a song I'd built [TS]

  by taking this dissolved cat sugar [TS]

  castle and had what you know i had a [TS]

  like him i had a tent city in the desert [TS]

  all of a sudden and that is a familiar [TS]

  process for me that's how I wrote songs [TS]

  that's why I've always written songs you [TS]

  write a thing unless it's perfect the [TS]

  first time you end up having to take it [TS]

  apart and that's hard to do it's it's um [TS]

  there's a certain amount of suffering [TS]

  involved but then you come out the other [TS]

  side with the thing that you could not [TS]

  have predicted you couldn't have seen [TS]

  that this was the gonna be the end [TS]

  result when you started and so I did all [TS]

  that and I had this thing and I was very [TS]

  close to finishing it and then again [TS]

  maybe it's the maybe it's the like a [TS]

  ladder rail or whatever it is but I said [TS]

  hey aimee mann's working on a new record [TS]

  we were just talking about it and I just [TS]

  send it to our spontaneous [TS]

  made a recording into my iphone of me [TS]

  sitting at the piano going here's a song [TS]

  i hope you like it song and then send it [TS]

  like sensitive little with a little file [TS]

  from the iphone recording and she wrote [TS]

  back was like that's amazing [TS]

  what do you want me to do when I was [TS]

  like I don't finish it and so Amy [TS]

  doesn't let any grass grow she finished [TS]

  in two days and she did a very [TS]

  interesting thing which was took [TS]

  ownership of it like I sent it to her it [TS]

  would I proposed a collaboration she [TS]

  accepted that proposal at which point [TS]

  the song became her because she's gonna [TS]

  put it on her record and so and it was [TS]

  unfinished right I didn't say like [TS]

  here's a here's my finished complete [TS]

  work was like here's the thing want to [TS]

  want to co-write with me and she was [TS]

  like yes and went boom and then the song [TS]

  went away from me [TS]

  Wow and she took she went through the [TS]

  lyrics and that every instance where [TS]

  there was a line that was very John [TS]

  Roderick in the sense that it was very [TS]

  impressionist aqui [TS]

  like what i was getting at was through [TS]

  several layers of oil paint I was you [TS]

  know I was making starry night and she [TS]

  went through and really sort of [TS]

  literalized those lines and intimate [TS]

  most in most cases it was the last line [TS]

  of the verse and say I was standing [TS]

  there you were in a wingback chair I was [TS]

  climbing up the stair and then the gas [TS]

  fires of the refinery on the edge of the [TS]

  coast created a wave of Black Knight [TS]

  sound of gong and she took the whole gas [TS]

  fires line out and replaced it with a [TS]

  shorter line that rhyme with stare at [TS]

  the end [TS]

  that made sense and I was like whoa whoa [TS]

  whoa bro she's a pro yeah but I felt I [TS]

  felt like it did three lines in a row [TS]

  around you might want to the fourth 12 [TS]

  yeah and not have it be about gas [TS]

  refinery and what was the gas refinery [TS]

  thing again and I was like what is the [TS]

  gas refinery think I mean isn't that [TS]

  painting that's just you need to use [TS]

  that somewhere else John just keep it [TS]

  before the next moment but he a seed [TS]

  corn my friend right right seed corn but [TS]

  so it was so emotionally it was i was [TS]

  little bit like I haven't I have not [TS]

  collaborated with people in this way [TS]

  where i sent them i think i was writing [TS]

  for myself and they took it and made it [TS]

  for themselves but she made it sound [TS]

  like any man song just by changing those [TS]

  weird sentences into ones that like [TS]

  actually fit and so I called Jonathan [TS]

  Coleman I was like Hamlet's tell me walk [TS]

  me through this and he said well here's [TS]

  the thing when i write a song in [TS]

  collaboration with somebody i do one of [TS]

  two things either I either they sent me [TS]

  half of the song and I try to write try [TS]

  to finish it in their voice or I'll [TS]

  start writing a song for someone in what [TS]

  I imagine is their voice Wow [TS]

  and so that song that I saying on his [TS]

  record his last record [TS]

  um the Nemesis he brought that to me [TS]

  because he said I wrote this song in [TS]

  imitation of your song right sounds a [TS]

  lot like one of your songs [TS]

  yeah he said this is just a song that I [TS]

  wrote for you and it would only sound [TS]

  appropriate will be using with using was [TS]

  like oh that's an interesting skill you [TS]

  have the UM you know to do impressions [TS]

  of other people songwriting but so he [TS]

  said when I write songs with somebody [TS]

  I'm i do not feel proprietary about them [TS]

  because I'm already writing them with [TS]

  them in mind i'm not i would never [TS]

  consider singing these myself and so [TS]

  that was the difference i had written [TS]

  this thing and Adam and was just writing [TS]

  it the way I normally do which is [TS]

  imagining myself singing it and now it's [TS]

  taken honest it's now has a now has its [TS]

  own life it's it's it's left me behind [TS]

  it's like it's gone to college and [TS]

  and I tried to call it over and say [TS]

  how'd you get this number say that i [TS]

  miss it you know and that but i'm still [TS]

  there [TS]

  whatever needs to talk to me and it is [TS]

  busy it doesn't want it sort of sending [TS]

  me right to voicemail [TS]

  ok so we'll see I mean that's exciting [TS]

  why i agree i said wow you got a lot of [TS]

  angles hear me [TS]

  it's a little lot of angles in play I'm [TS]

  drinking some coffee that I got across [TS]

  the street from the American cement [TS]

  building a honduran restaurant haha i [TS]

  have one in your lap in that photo Jesse [TS]

  put up any so just just published a [TS]

  photo of me almost a photo of you uh [TS]

  Institute this is the thing if you [TS]

  literally literally under glass if [TS]

  you're following along on Instagram you [TS]

  really you could be could be three steps [TS]

  ahead of me [TS]

  yeah I know I I don't but but I i catch [TS]

  glimpses of it because you make it go to [TS]

  Twitter and then I see your RV and it's [TS]

  like a little game of where's waldo it's [TS]

  a little uh you know which john parked [TS]

  yeah where was he doing yeah the first [TS]

  thing just he said when I walked in with [TS]

  you like oh hey mr. Hawaiian shirt [TS]

  november i was like saving that one for [TS]

  years [TS]

  okay well done i am mr. Hawaiian shirt [TS]

  in November let's go investigate [TS]

  somebody haha [TS]

  Sherlock it's locked no i was i was [TS]

  wearing a t-shirt for the last several [TS]

  days and then when I woke up this [TS]

  morning I was like this t-shirt has run [TS]

  its course [TS]

  yeah i'm gonna start i'm going to start [TS]

  going to start scaring little kids with [TS]

  this is not sure so I put on the [TS]

  Hawaiian shirt that I bought at a thrift [TS]

  store and people I feel really good i'm [TS]

  in a tropical climate are you gonna tell [TS]

  us when you're coming here or will you [TS]

  find out from Instagram you know get [TS]

  stuff we gotta do at school and all [TS]

  right you guys have like your lives that [TS]

  you live somewhere yeah is it we we give [TS]

  us some kind of rough sense of like like [TS]

  when you're at the bridge or something [TS]

  yeah it's later on this week okay great [TS]

  san francisco right [TS]

  Oh like the type that in right here on [TS]

  my my scheduling machine later three [TS]

  I think maybe the three nights a week [TS]

  three nights in San Francisco [TS]

  okay terrific two of them have i'm [TS]

  playing shows at some venue that I don't [TS]

  know with the with this calf or [TS]

  mentioned [TS]

  master of exciting young performers [TS]

  these kids are doing great stuff today [TS]

  John are you falling with young people [TS]

  are doing with music [TS]

  well yeah you know I so the song I wrote [TS]

  for amy is actually an EDM track and [TS]

  doesn't have a drop i worked for hours [TS]

  on the drop bears just like they just [TS]

  want to put it in the exact perfect spot [TS]

  so we really really rob it is it's about [TS]

  it's about where you place the drop and [TS]

  what you want to do is you want to [TS]

  create tension by not delivering the [TS]

  drop know you want people to wait for it [TS]

  and want it again a gentle lover [TS]

  it's coming just not yet here it comes [TS]

  soft soft fingers and once it comes you [TS]

  know it's just one big splash right here [TS]

  one drop right one drop and then pow [TS]

  yep and that's unless puts a lot of [TS]

  pressure on the drop em you know what I [TS]

  mean that's in the author of the drop [TS]

  Itoh one shot at that you get one shot [TS]

  do not miss your chance to blow this [TS]

  opportunity comes once in a lifetime [TS]

  mmm thinking of a master plan [TS]

  nothing but sweat inside my hand what's [TS]

  going on in your life [TS]

  I mean nothing nothing ya know you know [TS]

  all the same time I'm not going to [TS]

  attempt to compete with you on this [TS]

  youyou've having your Jesse studio yeah [TS]

  I don't want to waste his time he's [TS]

  probably other stuff to get the guy that [TS]

  got have the flophouse guys come in [TS]

  together the canadian guy with the beard [TS]

  gotta be there [TS]

  podcasting brothers in the brothers and [TS]

  brothers got all these people they'll [TS]

  come into that office [TS]

  do they know sure they do know they make [TS]

  podcast those the the the my brothers [TS]

  and me is make the podcast in North [TS]

  Carolina mountains or something I don't [TS]

  know [TS]

  no i don't know that i think the [TS]

  flophouse act like they're at dan's [TS]

  house but i think they actually other [TS]

  than I think they actually probably go [TS]

  you should listen to fall apart house [TS]

  it's a very good program also i'm in [TS]

  this studio and there are few things [TS]

  that are there a little bit [TS]

  well they're a little bit different from [TS]

  my gosh you know what come up you'll [TS]

  forgive me John I'm busy talking about [TS]

  the limit the drill got my head up my [TS]

  ass [TS]

  tell me a little bit about what it's [TS]

  like to be in Jesse studio oh yeah well [TS]

  you steam anything yet when you have a [TS]

  chance to steam something you could go [TS]

  get your shirt out of the car and steam [TS]

  it i thought that maybe I would go to a [TS]

  store right now and buy a couple of [TS]

  suits just to come in and steam them as [TS]

  there's we think he's kind of wrinkled I [TS]

  don't know if I want this there's a [TS]

  shout there's not only a shower here in [TS]

  this officers a bathtub and I'm [TS]

  wondering i'm seriously since I walked [TS]

  in here open [TS]

  I've been just sitting and thinking like [TS]

  okay what is the propriety of me just [TS]

  taking a bath at me a question is the [TS]

  bathtub in the same physical room as the [TS]

  primary toilet [TS]

  no oh yes don't take a bath because [TS]

  somebody has used it as a guest bath [TS]

  during a party [TS]

  well i don't i'm not sure they've ever [TS]

  had a party here there's really no i'm [TS]

  not sure that they party business [TS]

  business business right i mean Matthew I [TS]

  mean I've been to a lot of Max fun [TS]

  parties and I don't think anyone has [TS]

  ever used a bathtub from for a party and [TS]

  I'm a different kind of that it's a [TS]

  classy crowd it's a google glass here [TS]

  it's their little bit more there [TS]

  discerning but I'm just trying to think [TS]

  like how much of a violation of [TS]

  everyone's psycho-sexual space it would [TS]

  be for me to just be like can I take a [TS]

  bath here and then just I'd be in the [TS]

  bath there are unfailingly polite is the [TS]

  thing they're having a hard being [TS]

  English in a lot of wear super polite [TS]

  and they would you know no one would [TS]

  want to say no but they're all sitting [TS]

  at their desks and this is the also the [TS]

  worthy go to the bathroom [TS]

  yeah so I just been there you know and I [TS]

  take it to take a long you have a long [TS]

  bath and just being there blue you [TS]

  should give me a heads-up give him time [TS]

  to maybe give it a good scrub you got [TS]

  yourself a chili dog and a bathtub desk [TS]

  and maybe pick up a suit the chicken [TS]

  steamed come in steam suit you don't get [TS]

  it i'm guessing there's not a bathtub in [TS]

  the RV know there is a shower but i have [TS]

  not yet a christened the shower [TS]

  you're kidding me ah i was showering [TS]

  three times a day I don't know it just [TS]

  feels a little bit like I a boy once you [TS]

  start showering in there you you've [TS]

  crossed a kind of rubicon where your [TS]

  fate is sealed like sharing a needle [TS]

  John it's like that's when you've really [TS]

  you become part of the RV people will [TS]

  bathe in it you have to take Rome at [TS]

  that point because because you've [TS]

  declared war just by classic crossing [TS]

  the room cancer back so i don't know i [TS]

  mean i'm gonna do it [TS]

  it has to be done i hope so but I'm just [TS]

  I'm just I'm sitting there by parked off [TS]

  melrose i'm at the corner of Melrose [TS]

  into [TS]

  spare and I just picture myself getting [TS]

  in the shower all around me people are [TS]

  walking really small dogs [TS]

  ladies and gentlemen just feels don't [TS]

  want to disturb your day I know you're [TS]

  busy making films and boots but could [TS]

  help out down-on-his-luck musician whose [TS]

  bathing innovation it feels like I [TS]

  should have one of those good sam club [TS]

  stickers on the back of my RV I don't [TS]

  know that's code that serious code good [TS]

  sam club [TS]

  oh you think what do you think that's [TS]

  key party I wasn't gonna say it i was [TS]

  gonna say i think yes primarily sure [TS]

  it's about helping out a brother or [TS]

  sister friend when they're having [TS]

  trouble with their RV but it's also a [TS]

  little bit about you know back in the [TS]

  queen-size yeah you put upon pull your [TS]

  RV up into the slot next to my RV we [TS]

  were little because the other keys now [TS]

  we don't have been that's right Willie [TS]

  the world like it's okay well speaking [TS]

  of a it will leave a light on for you [TS]

  atlanta for you [TS]

  yeah speaking of good sam club so GM [TS]

  cr-v culture has a thing called the [TS]

  black list and when I heard about the [TS]

  black list at first I was like really [TS]

  the black list [TS]

  really you guys you're all [TS]

  eighty-five-year-old boeing engineers is [TS]

  it really called the black list they're [TS]

  like the blacklist you need to get the [TS]

  black list [TS]

  I can't wait to hear the black list is [TS]

  ok for me to know if I haven't been [TS]

  initiated [TS]

  well this is the thing is if the [TS]

  blacklist it's just like limit until if [TS]

  you don't have a GMC RV the blacklist [TS]

  means nothing to you [TS]

  oh I get it I get it it only matters if [TS]

  you have a GMC RV and with the black [TS]

  list is is a list of people nationwide [TS]

  who are GMC aficionados Oh Who if you're [TS]

  in trouble you're in a scrape scrape in [TS]

  Shasta California you are a little bit [TS]

  off the road in peoria illinois go to [TS]

  the black list call somebody [TS]

  it's like the wolf like the wolf it [TS]

  comes out and cleans up [TS]

  that's right comes out it is acura nsx [TS]

  huh never touches the thing just issues [TS]

  some orders yet there were two point the [TS]

  hose that's right and then splits with [TS]

  drunken sex sister [TS]

  that's right mhm [TS]

  um so I'm outside eugene i pull over [TS]

  into one of those rest stops to rest i [TS]

  get out [TS]

  I you know I'm i do a visual check and I [TS]

  see antifreeze pouring out from [TS]

  underneath the vehicle shit which you [TS]

  don't have to be a mechanic to know is a [TS]

  is contraindicated for continuing to [TS]

  move down the road so I go fill a milk [TS]

  carton well somebody else in RV pulls up [TS]

  in there like they see me looking [TS]

  panicked and they have [TS]

  panicked and they have [TS]

  me they go back into their RV in handy a [TS]

  milk jug there like fill it up with for [TS]

  water and get you down the road [TS]

  I was like thank you RV brother but it [TS]

  wasn't a GMC RV with someone tell Large [TS]

  Marge sent you [TS]

  yeah like you know I gave them i gave [TS]

  them some kind of Masonic sign and they [TS]

  looked confused [TS]

  we only had the thing that really have [TS]

  the city gave them make them like the [TS]

  American Sign Language sign for hungry [TS]

  kids like like you're like little babies [TS]

  deal with a they make points with the [TS]

  fingers and him together to say more [TS]

  more more MORE [TS]

  but i but I filled it up with water and [TS]

  I drove to Eugene and I called a guy on [TS]

  the black list [TS]

  whoa and he answers the phone his name [TS]

  is Kelvin I was like that's apropos [TS]

  that's a code name John and I said hey [TS]

  is this company was like yeah and i said [TS]

  hi I'm calling from the black list and [TS]

  he was like oh tell me more [TS]

  I said I'm on the highway and I'm [TS]

  training and fries and he was like well [TS]

  I can't come get you and I said no I [TS]

  mobile and he said oh good [TS]

  come here immediately so I'm driving [TS]

  through eugene all of a sudden through [TS]

  the two neighborhoods out in like west [TS]

  eugene I pull into this guy's driveway I [TS]

  see his GM cr-v underneath them [TS]

  RV cover in the back and in the front is [TS]

  a classic like 67 Datsun b210 b210 wagon [TS]

  custom wagon I was like that's a cool [TS]

  car he comes out he's like we're [TS]

  watching the oregon game [TS]

  are you sure your water pump is busted [TS]

  it might be something else and we get [TS]

  under we look at it was like oh yeah [TS]

  it's a water pump was like no he's like [TS]

  it's friday at five o'clock [TS]

  no place is going to be open us no place [TS]

  is going to be open on Sunday you can [TS]

  sleep in my bar but don't touch my [TS]

  daughter [TS]

  that's right i was like man this sucks [TS]

  you know i'm headed down to California [TS]

  was like yeah and then I kind of said [TS]

  like well I mean shit [TS]

  wherever it is I go I'm gonna be there [TS]

  till monday basically sleeping in [TS]

  somebody's driveway and he was like hmm [TS]

  his wife was yelling at the TV about the [TS]

  football game and he's sitting there [TS]

  he's pulling on his fingers and he's [TS]

  like this probably isn't how the [TS]

  blacklist works this is not exactly it's [TS]

  not an extended-stay it's not a tumble [TS]

  debt situation well it that's the thing [TS]

  know and so and then he starts bass part [TS]

  starts saying to himself under his [TS]

  breath is like really and I'm like he [TS]

  was muttering pay it forward under his [TS]

  breath [TS]

  yeah and so I'm just standing i'm [TS]

  looking at the sky at this point I'm [TS]

  looking down at my shoes and i'm looking [TS]

  at the sky I don't want to I don't want [TS]

  to jinx it i don't want to do anything [TS]

  but I don't know how to change a water [TS]

  pump by myself in somebody's driveway [TS]

  and the temperature was plummeting may I [TS]

  add it was at that time 40 degrees and [TS]

  he's like and after about five minutes [TS]

  of us both stand there kicking the dirt [TS]

  with our shoes he says all right let's [TS]

  do this [TS]

  any calls the autozone he's like do you [TS]

  have the following part figured out what [TS]

  the part is called them they're like [TS]

  manufactory do is like you seriously you [TS]

  have a UFO water pump for a 75 ultima [TS]

  Beal and they're like yeah we do it [TS]

  sounds haunted and he's like alright so [TS]

  we get in his car and we drive to the [TS]

  autozone we buy this water pump and we [TS]

  go back to his house and he's like [TS]

  here's the deal I'm going to be on the [TS]

  top of the motor you're going to be on [TS]

  the bottom laying on the ground and [TS]

  we're going to do this and so we [TS]

  proceeded to take off the fan and then [TS]

  the alternator and then the power [TS]

  steering box and then the air [TS]

  conditioning we basically took the whole [TS]

  front of the motor off and then took the [TS]

  water pump off and at this point it's 33 [TS]

  degrees and i'm lying on the ground [TS]

  completely soaked in antifreeze oil and [TS]

  gas and he's up in the cabin and we are [TS]

  turning wrenches and it's one of those [TS]

  moments where it's like if you are a [TS]

  mechanic you look at a situation like [TS]

  that you're like yeah it's here's what [TS]

  we have to do we just turn these bolts [TS]

  and move these things and [TS]

  turn these bolts and move these things [TS]

  and then your job is not but for me all [TS]

  of that still seems a little bit like [TS]

  magic or it doesn't like like an like a [TS]

  thing I would never dare [TS]

  it's really daring more than anything [TS]

  and watching the whole thing go down and [TS]

  really being in there and doing it with [TS]

  him it's like right this there's nothing [TS]

  about this that isn't doable it's the [TS]

  daring to say we're just going to change [TS]

  that we're gonna do this now because if [TS]

  you get the water pump off and don't get [TS]

  a new one back on then what you have is [TS]

  a giant pile of garbage in your front [TS]

  driveway that sits there forever you [TS]

  know that's because they they stopped [TS]

  daring yeah right and and that's where [TS]

  that's why you see junk cars everywhere [TS]

  because somebody notes it's it's not [TS]

  it's not difficult to tear the stuff [TS]

  apart [TS]

  it's just that if you don't get it back [TS]

  together then it's done right you have [TS]

  like he has a very short amount of time [TS]

  and we get this thing all apart and when [TS]

  there was like the look of course the [TS]

  last bolt he's wrenching on and he's [TS]

  like oh my god I feel like there's [TS]

  something wrong with this bolt feel like [TS]

  i'm going to share the head off of this [TS]

  bowl and I'm like from under the truck [TS]

  and I'm like don't share the head off [TS]

  the boat is like he's like he's like I [TS]

  just don't like the feel of it and so we [TS]

  we jiggle the part and we spray some [TS]

  rust you know some like some lube in [TS]

  there we juggle the parts of more we [TS]

  spray some lube and then we wait and we [TS]

  kind of pace around and then we go back [TS]

  and do a little bit more and he's moving [TS]

  the thing is like [TS]

  I still just feel like i'm about to [TS]

  share this off and if I share this bolt [TS]

  off i do not have a bolt extractor now [TS]

  we are really fucked because that's a [TS]

  that's sort of a big job considering [TS]

  where this bolt is and that will require [TS]

  professional and when also he never [TS]

  signed up for having that thing sit in [TS]

  front of it I don't know he at that [TS]

  point like that we're both pot committed [TS]

  to this and we sit there for like 15 [TS]

  minutes just fretting I'm writing I'm [TS]

  like did we do the thing where we toured [TS]

  the thing apart and then we share the [TS]

  last bolt and then this just gets towed [TS]

  to a junkyard and I get on a train em I [TS]

  don't like that story I don't like that [TS]

  ending but none of us did and it's you [TS]

  know it's freezing now and it's the [TS]

  middle of the night and he just says [TS]

  okay you know where we've gone this far [TS]

  I can't just leave it like this i'm just [TS]

  gonna go for and he goes and he like [TS]

  turns the bolt is like oh I just uh I [TS]

  don't and then he's like wait a minute [TS]

  and it and outcomes my god and we pull [TS]

  the bolt out and we look at it and it's [TS]

  not damaged it was just that it was [TS]

  really hated it a forty-year-old bolt it [TS]

  in there a long time and so then it was [TS]

  just like we were so we were so [TS]

  rejoicing about this bolt that then [TS]

  putting it all back together seemed like [TS]

  less of an onerous task because every [TS]

  bolt we put back in was a bolt of [TS]

  thankfulness it was just like Thank You [TS]

  engine for receiving this bolt thank you [TS]

  for receiving this bolt and the thing [TS]

  just sort of you know went back together [TS]

  really fast because we were freezing our [TS]

  asses off and soaking wet with with [TS]

  fluids got every reason to just give up [TS]

  yeah right but also like here we go and [TS]

  it was Calvin the entire time just like [TS]

  he just never faltered he never you know [TS]

  he never liked let doubt intrude and [TS]

  then like 1030 and night [TS]

  we shake hands he's like yeah you know [TS]

  Black List pay it forward and forward I [TS]

  was just like Thank You Calvin see you [TS]

  buddy [TS]

  he's like and he's the last thing he [TS]

  said was I mean we're friends now [TS]

  well I mean you just you just change [TS]

  your water pump in my driveway like know [TS]

  what her a we haven't we have a bond i [TS]

  was like we fucking do it takes it takes [TS]

  an RV in a list to make you really [TS]

  appreciate something like that yeah [TS]

  we're not all like that all the time [TS]

  with each other [TS]

  no no no that's the thing like there [TS]

  were it was so easy for him to say yeah [TS]

  I can give you the names of a couple of [TS]

  people um you can't park it here though [TS]

  I'm sorry my wife and I wouldn't want to [TS]

  do that I wouldn't want to deal with [TS]

  that I mean every step along the way [TS]

  there was a moment where he not only [TS]

  could but probably should have said yeah [TS]

  you're in a jam I'm sorry if you have [TS]

  triple-a you could probably get it towed [TS]

  to this place and wait there until [TS]

  monday and i would have been I would [TS]

  have been like that is normal of you to [TS]

  do thank you for that amount of help [TS]

  like thank you for helping me know that [TS]

  and I would have had it towed and I [TS]

  would have sat in a motel or I don't [TS]

  know what I would have done it forward [TS]

  but he was like let's let's do this like [TS]

  the blacklists your life is weird right [TS]

  now [TS]

  yeah I don't fucking weird but like I [TS]

  feel like I feel like out there right [TS]

  now there is this um there's this guild [TS]

  of monks or whatever these people in [TS]

  shawls and I have their numbers i have [TS]

  this black list I can call I call [TS]

  somebody in LA right now be like I'm in [TS]

  a GMC RV and I need a place to park and [TS]

  do you have any is there a chipotle [TS]

  nearby a forward and they'd be like come [TS]

  on over [TS]

  oh god bless the monks they are the [TS]

  priests of the temples of syrinx [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  crazy fucking weak dude [TS]