Roderick on the Line

Ep. 169: "Again With the Pie"

 

  this episode of Roderick online is [TS]

  sponsored by cards against humanity this [TS]

  month they invited set boyer to help me [TS]

  say hi to john came [TS]

  hello hi John hi bear would posit [TS]

  colleague pretty good it sounds like a [TS]

  congested jello biafra who a Pepsi blue [TS]

  fish and dyad fucking dragon lady fights [TS]

  tied but I don't know what's going on [TS]

  with me i was up until four thirty in [TS]

  the morning last night and then I i've [TS]

  reverted immediately to type right by my [TS]

  people are all in France and it took me [TS]

  three days to just like completely [TS]

  completely reverb yeah that's it that's [TS]

  all it took m130 in the morning but now [TS]

  it seems to me that yet on the one hand [TS]

  it is your natural predilection to be a [TS]

  night owl but on the other hand the [TS]

  thing that brings the night owl pneus [TS]

  out in you is some kind of an interest [TS]

  often online where were you drawn to [TS]

  that are you sorting things what kept [TS]

  you up I was balancing angels ok on the [TS]

  head of a pin [TS]

  oh that's so nice and then I was [TS]

  balancing the entire contraption on the [TS]

  tip of my finger [TS]

  mm see angels all the way down that's [TS]

  right so if you can sit right very right [TS]

  so if you can imagine it's kind of a tea [TS]

  at Rosings ani it's a little bit of a [TS]

  circus circus but the latest la banda [TS]

  saturday for the central pay ten it's [TS]

  got it's a it's a flying Karamazov [TS]

  brothers of angels ooh tiny angels it's [TS]

  like a heavenly flea circus [TS]

  that's precisely what it is i pay for [TS]

  that you know I that's when people that [TS]

  when people would say how many angels [TS]

  can you balance on that of a pin i would [TS]

  always imagined it just like a flea [TS]

  circus [TS]

  I don't know what you don't you say all [TS]

  of them that was like sure if that was [TS]

  the google interview question i would [TS]

  just say all of them problem [TS]

  yeah i mean how many prove me wrong [TS]

  show your math every angel all the [TS]

  Angels even all the great angels even [TS]

  the late angel but the to the chubby [TS]

  angel that's always late [TS]

  i'm sowwy he's gonna come up and pop in [TS]

  the future [TS]

  he gets on there too sowwy bars [TS]

  angel angel well I'll have your badge [TS]

  I was gonna ask you how life without the [TS]

  family i think i mentioned probably [TS]

  after we stopped recording last time I [TS]

  can't recall but just how i descend [TS]

  usually within less than 36 hours into a [TS]

  nearly feral State yeah that was part of [TS]

  the Roderick on the line after dark [TS]

  after dark that we always don't record [TS]

  that's right we're just doing shots and [TS]

  talking about life just talking about [TS]

  like some of the funniest stuff some of [TS]

  the most amazing [TS]

  oh my gosh we have fun don't we boy we [TS]

  really do we get in there we talk about [TS]

  get religion you get sent me some of the [TS]

  stuff that we can talk about on the [TS]

  program Ron Paul revolution [TS]

  well it's all in there yeah you i mean i [TS]

  have seen you get turned into a feral [TS]

  dog so fast faster than almost any other [TS]

  person if you if you are not like [TS]

  actually literally being shaved like [TS]

  restrained at some kind of a clinic [TS]

  well just like it as you are shaving one [TS]

  part of you the other part is bursting [TS]

  forth like you know Wolverine styling [TS]

  yeah well here's the thing well here's [TS]

  the hmm here's the thing about that is [TS]

  that I am less of a totally distracted [TS]

  basket case then i have been at other [TS]

  times in my life but I am still a very [TS]

  distractible basket case [TS]

  so you know it'sit's you see me in your [TS]

  home like a come in i've got a little [TS]

  bag of stuff and pretty soon the stuff [TS]

  is everywhere and I can't find anything [TS]

  i don't have to feed myself anymore i [TS]

  get i get very confused very quickly [TS]

  yeah yeah well and it's a it's [TS]

  delightful it's what makes us great it's [TS]

  a great effect to have at a bar right [TS]

  when you when I see you come into a bar [TS]

  and you spread your stuff all around and [TS]

  and that night riii stand by the door [TS]

  with everything in my bag the bag is [TS]

  zipped up and I am no more than three [TS]

  paces from the door at all really soon [TS]

  you're standing on a barstool heart the [TS]

  bartender is is a is it becomes a [TS]

  lifelong friend i'm a call that's true i [TS]

  make knocking excellent grandma moses i [TS]

  am ready to go anywhere very quickly I i [TS]

  am i'm kind of a little bit famous for [TS]

  this I think is heard of the protocol [TS]

  the French accent I've heard it called [TS]

  the irish exit [TS]

  I'm not sure what kind of exit is but I [TS]

  don't like taking a long time to leave [TS]

  somewhere so whereas i will spread out [TS]

  in a hotel room or your home in that [TS]

  little special secret room under the [TS]

  stairs i will take harry potter sleeping [TS]

  in John's house i will keep all of my [TS]

  stuff ready I am always waiting for the [TS]

  opportunity to leave anywhere all the [TS]

  time [TS]

  that's what is because why I always [TS]

  imagined that backpack was actually a [TS]

  parachute right part of it is like a [TS]

  rash you can't say what the rest is yeah [TS]

  and i know you like to be the last [TS]

  person to dive onto the plane or the [TS]

  last person to dive off of the muni [TS]

  train [TS]

  I've seen this you I used to think you [TS]

  were making it up but it's true you [TS]

  stand dead still in my pajamas are [TS]

  stopped and you're like kind of comic [TS]

  barely moving your head shaking i got [TS]

  like don't even acknowledge that were [TS]

  together this can be used against us [TS]

  later and in film you gotta get through [TS]

  that door at the last possible second [TS]

  house and I because yeah because reasons [TS]

  because reason because privacy secrecy [TS]

  now that it didn't you in your behind a [TS]

  couple times in the last couple years [TS]

  hasn't it didn't miss a flight recently [TS]

  because of that you know what I missed a [TS]

  couple of flights and what happened was [TS]

  the airline industry keeps changing the [TS]

  rules it keeps moving the goalposts so [TS]

  they started doing this thing where [TS]

  they're like well if you're not you know [TS]

  the the flight leaves at seven forty but [TS]

  the doors close at seven twenty yep and [TS]

  it's like what was then the flight [TS]

  leaves at seven twenty no no the flight [TS]

  leaves at seven forty but the doors and [TS]

  I'm like well no that's not on the [TS]

  ticket dude butterflies names doors [TS]

  doors being printed on the ticket right [TS]

  I've been on plenty of flights that left [TS]

  at 740 where the door is closed at seven [TS]

  forty and then the plane sat at the [TS]

  airport for another hour and a half or [TS]

  so let's not fuck around with like the [TS]

  flight leaves its when the doors closes [TS]

  when the flight leaves so yeah I was [TS]

  sitting in the sitting in the airport [TS]

  looking around enjoying myself cleaning [TS]

  my nails yes [TS]

  scanning for a people and sandals [TS]

  that's right look that's right making [TS]

  sure that the that there's not some [TS]

  screaming baby issuing citations [TS]

  a little you know a little bit yeah you [TS]

  want to make sure the thing about a [TS]

  specter agent who is that you're going [TS]

  to be able to pick that Spectre agent [TS]

  out not by their own behavior but how [TS]

  they react to your behavior and then all [TS]

  of a sudden I look up in the doors [TS]

  yes I write what I walk over and I'm [TS]

  like a I'm on this line they're like not [TS]

  anymore [TS]

  good luck finding somebody i'm off and I [TS]

  bet those reasons for this [TS]

  I bet I I think I know two things about [TS]

  this kind of i know that an airplane [TS]

  only makes money when it's in the air [TS]

  and I know that there's a lot of [TS]

  pressure [TS]

  I pretty sure is a lot of pressure on [TS]

  the whole flight crew to keep their [TS]

  delays down because it looks bad to the [TS]

  company and it looks bad to the public [TS]

  when you go look something up online [TS]

  records on this stuff right we got [TS]

  record i sent you that link to that that [TS]

  that amazing website where you can watch [TS]

  real time flight information like you [TS]

  know you know that's not likely exposed [TS]

  you can go and see hey this this flight [TS]

  from San Francisco Portland is a is late [TS]

  you know fourteen percent of the time or [TS]

  so yeah so I'll bet that's it is also [TS]

  that maybe there's something that makes [TS]

  them look better they get everybody [TS]

  backed into the fart tube quicker and [TS]

  that looks better on their quarterly [TS]

  report may be so I am incapable of like [TS]

  a lot of people my generation night and [TS]

  I don't you know we love you in to my [TS]

  generation me let me know when you're 18 [TS]

  months older than me or something [TS]

  coupled in that but I find that I am now [TS]

  constitutionally incapable of having em [TS]

  any sympathy or even like certainly no [TS]

  co measure commas commiseration but also [TS]

  like no even like shared understanding [TS]

  with anyone in the airline industry [TS]

  right i cannot even if all the facts are [TS]

  there if it's all laid out like oh this [TS]

  makes perfect sense i cannot sympathize [TS]

  with them because they are because it [TS]

  seems to me that they have all agreed [TS]

  that their business model relies on [TS]

  torturing people before for money i [TS]

  think this becoming it's funny because [TS]

  in that it's not like they didn't want [TS]

  to make money 50 years ago but for a [TS]

  variety of reasons that are too likely [TS]

  to get into today it is a naturally [TS]

  necessarily adversarial relationship [TS]

  with a lot of gotchas and like anything [TS]

  when [TS]

  just certain age you're always wondering [TS]

  who's trying to fuck you like who's [TS]

  gonna screw me today and like what [TS]

  should I be looking for and in the [TS]

  airline industry I mean that is real it [TS]

  is totally real they're going to do as [TS]

  little as possible for you with a few [TS]

  resources as possible and find as many [TS]

  things they can't charge for kids that's [TS]

  just the way the industry works and to [TS]

  act like it's anything else and talk [TS]

  about things like loyalty loyalty really [TS]

  what's your loyalty to me i can't find [TS]

  anybody to talk to get my family on a [TS]

  plane [TS]

  yeah well I'm and the and more than any [TS]

  other more than any other thing in them [TS]

  in the contemporary world they have a [TS]

  they have adopted the idea that [TS]

  seniority by which they mean this [TS]

  strange loyalty thing that you're [TS]

  talking about like the more money that [TS]

  you pay to us the more opportunities [TS]

  were going to give you to opt out of [TS]

  being waterboarded yeah and and without [TS]

  that without that uh that by him [TS]

  your only other option is to pay a user [TS]

  eous fee you know to pay twenty-five [TS]

  hundred dollars for a ticket right and [TS]

  look at the at the middling levels of [TS]

  that seniority you mainly get the [TS]

  opportunity to pay slightly less to be [TS]

  waterboarded but your student to not be [TS]

  waterboarded but you're gonna pay [TS]

  yeah you're still gonna you're still [TS]

  going to sit in in a in an iron maiden [TS]

  while we like pissing your mat so the [TS]

  only way [TS]

  mmm that sounds very adult forget to [TS]

  Like lufthansa the actually there there [TS]

  it's called the it's called the what was [TS]

  that may be nicer [TS]

  that's what was the one we crashed in me [TS]

  in in the Alps the guy decided that he [TS]

  will write that I've done I'm done you [TS]

  know it's not easy jet it was fly it was [TS]

  5i applies and scheisse like sunshine i [TS]

  was Luke chase shy set but you're [TS]

  absolutely right knee and the only way [TS]

  that happens is deliberate like we're [TS]

  gonna I mean it's a total win for them [TS]

  you get a lighter narrower seat you put [TS]

  more people into the into the fart tube [TS]

  and then you charge them to basically to [TS]

  be in a seat that is that is not [TS]

  deliberately uncomfortable [TS]

  oh and with the lean back lean not [TS]

  looking was you know they they used all [TS]

  that [TS]

  after nine eleven gas prices went crazy [TS]

  you know they they made all those [TS]

  modifications and justified them at the [TS]

  time because gas is so expensive that [TS]

  they couldn't possibly profit anymore [TS]

  and so they had to do this they were [TS]

  being forced to do this by economics [TS]

  they're being forced to do this by the [TS]

  market there was no other way airlines [TS]

  were going the whole idea of flying was [TS]

  going to disappear from our minds [TS]

  because of because gas prices that made [TS]

  it had made it impossible and then when [TS]

  gas prices went down again they did not [TS]

  it was not like these are emergency [TS]

  measures and we're going to repeal them [TS]

  as soon as this this national crisis is [TS]

  over [TS]

  like when gas prices went down they [TS]

  continued up you continued on that on [TS]

  that on that are just like oh wow we [TS]

  figured out that we can take away all [TS]

  the padding from the seats and people [TS]

  still fly what would happen if we put a [TS]

  dead rat in every fourth seat under the [TS]

  padding but people still fly appears [TS]

  they do and what would happen if we put [TS]

  a hat pin in every 15th armrest wow [TS]

  people let's put one in every arm rest [TS]

  well let's be honest gas prices were [TS]

  pretty expensive so happens at pins [TS]

  right let's take let's make sure let's [TS]

  let's make it impossible to check a bag [TS]

  and and then it turns into a kind of [TS]

  like world war z on every airplane as [TS]

  people try to cram their luggage in the [TS]

  overhead compartments which used to that [TS]

  you know you overhead compartments you [TS]

  used to be able to you could have a [TS]

  skateboarding competition and mostly [TS]

  they were empty because people people [TS]

  are going to bags and a sousaphone [TS]

  because they don't spend $15 and they're [TS]

  happy they're happy to charge you for [TS]

  that yeah so then the airline's then it [TS]

  then it takes 45 minutes to board [TS]

  instead of 15 minutes to board and then [TS]

  they're like oh boy we're running out of [TS]

  where you know it takes too long to [TS]

  board so now the door is closed 20 [TS]

  minutes guys to me the huge question [TS]

  mark is well first of all you have the [TS]

  the human problem [TS]

  of well the human and business problem [TS]

  of there are more and more people [TS]

  traveling who are bringing big things on [TS]

  every extra thing that somebody brings [TS]

  on there i think has a geometric [TS]

  contribution to how long it takes and [TS]

  people don't understand like get the [TS]

  fuck out of the aisle get out of the [TS]

  i'll spend no time in the aisle unless [TS]

  you are moving movement ok they don't [TS]

  get that but then I don't understand i [TS]

  think this has been experimented with on [TS]

  various airlines but the way these [TS]

  planes board is bananas [TS]

  why well first of all there's no like of [TS]

  seeming science to like figuring out how [TS]

  to load from the back first and there's [TS]

  also the financial component of hey it's [TS]

  not it's not gonna be fair to all those [TS]

  all those seniority people to let the [TS]

  people in the back of the plane get on [TS]

  first right they have to be want to [TS]

  spend as much time on the plan as you [TS]

  possibly can he might be at you know [TS]

  active military service in uniform [TS]

  platinum gold silver plus international [TS]

  100k with a child that needs extra time [TS]

  right right so i mean it's it's so funny [TS]

  when I sometimes like recently on a [TS]

  flight was an easy flight to Portland [TS]

  not too long ago and i was saying [TS]

  seating group to because i was in like [TS]

  United you know plus or whatever maybe [TS]

  slightly bigger chair and I don't you [TS]

  get priority boarding half the plane got [TS]

  on your activity because you got 200 200 [TS]

  game military yeah the diamond platinum [TS]

  silver group thank you for your service [TS]

  the thing that drives me crazy is [TS]

  somewhere along the line at it as we [TS]

  became as the airline's reduced us to [TS]

  our tour most basic like bergen-belsen [TS]

  that level of like a human animal God [TS]

  people forgot people people realized [TS]

  that even if they were seated in row 34 [TS]

  they can put their bag [TS]

  oh yeah right and so all the people [TS]

  loading of the back of the plan get on [TS]

  they put their to put their bags in the [TS]

  first available bin right which which [TS]

  might be on well 11 because they are [TS]

  going to have to go by there again [TS]

  wonder where everyone have your back [TS]

  behind you but you're more than happy to [TS]

  your bag in front of you yeah so this is [TS]

  another this is another thing where I [TS]

  used to sit in the airport and wait [TS]

  until the last possible moment and i'm [TS]

  not you know what when they said we're [TS]

  going to charge you for the first six [TS]

  rows of coach we're going to charge you [TS]

  a hundred dollars more for the six first [TS]

  six rows of coach because we're gonna [TS]

  give you an inch more of legroom I was [TS]

  like okay you know what I turned into [TS]

  Todd Barry I was like okay fine i'll pay [TS]

  your hundred fucking dollars like [TS]

  whatever I if you've got me right [TS]

  I'm just a fucking I'm just a calf being [TS]

  fatted for slaughter you just a meat [TS]

  wallet is the big moist media object [TS]

  that happens to have a little bit of [TS]

  money right and when they said now we're [TS]

  going to charge you to sit in the exit [TS]

  row which is a which is this place as a [TS]

  seat which carries with it tremendous [TS]

  responsibility and we're also going to [TS]

  charge you to adopt that responsibility [TS]

  and also seats don't recline I was like [TS]

  you know what fine okay fine but then [TS]

  i'm sitting in the airport waiting for [TS]

  the waiting to be the last person on the [TS]

  plane enjoying the airport ambiens not [TS]

  yet crammed into the fart tube and then [TS]

  I am the last one on I get down to my [TS]

  seat which i have paid a hundred dollars [TS]

  extra for enroll one and there's no [TS]

  place for my bag because somebody in row [TS]

  34 cramming their bag in there on the [TS]

  way by yep there's no there's no attempt [TS]

  at the provenance they're not trying to [TS]

  detect first of all I think they're [TS]

  super fast and loose about what people [TS]

  actually carry on [TS]

  they have all those owners signs and [TS]

  shit but I see so many people carrying [TS]

  three things on there and they got like [TS]

  they got a fucking create a fruit [TS]

  oh sure their whole marriage my medics [TS]

  they vary as medics yeah yeah no they're [TS]

  not stopping them which is weird to me [TS]

  it's almost like they want to see us [TS]

  fight it out mad max-style yeah because [TS]

  you then you turn to the to the to the [TS]

  flight attendant [TS]

  hey i'm in this seat and there's no [TS]

  place for my bag and they look at you [TS]

  like how like the other child to give [TS]

  you never flown before don't you know [TS]

  you need to run in here and tear people [TS]

  apart yeah yeah right exactly [TS]

  oh yeah we know we called your row a [TS]

  long time ago the guy said and I was [TS]

  like well yeah I know it's not like you [TS]

  called my row [TS]

  I mean I i get to get on when I want but [TS]

  apparently there are new rules like this [TS]

  was new right up until five years ago [TS]

  you there was a general there was a [TS]

  social compact yeah you put your bag [TS]

  above your own seat it would never never [TS]

  in a bike and I cannot imagine in 1999 [TS]

  someone putting their bag above unless [TS]

  you know unless it was like well it [TS]

  never would have happened if you put [TS]

  your bag of somebody else's seated never [TS]

  would have had it would have it would [TS]

  have been like it would have been like [TS]

  you put your underwear on somebody [TS]

  else's head keep your underwear on your [TS]

  own head over anyway Merlin I don't want [TS]

  to turn our great show in this wonderful [TS]

  time that you and I have to spend [TS]

  together [TS]

  yes into another anti airline podcast [TS]

  there are so many of those that should [TS]

  be that should be a spin-off and you are [TS]

  not you are about to get on an airplane [TS]

  yes are you what are you doing driving [TS]

  yes [TS]

  yeah yeah yeah i bought my flight late [TS]

  and so I actually am in I'm in the [TS]

  bathroom area and there's exactly hoping [TS]

  for one of the San Francisco to pdx [TS]

  plates [TS]

  it's like you're 30-something center [TS]

  seat but you know what skin [TS]

  hour-and-a-half flight [TS]

  yes you did stand on your head yeah yeah [TS]

  I'm doing that is you just play Pocket [TS]

  pool for an hour and a half but maybe we [TS]

  could have a blanket please I'm going [TS]

  good too XOXO festival [TS]

  um excuse me could I have a fresh [TS]

  blanket believe you would wake was [TS]

  setting is it was that moist scraping [TS]

  noise that monkey another the hydraulics [TS]

  that's no 40 of shingles [TS]

  ahh ladies and gentlemen once again can [TS]

  I ask everybody with the with shingles [TS]

  at any point our pint please stop [TS]

  servicing the shell hundred the [TS]

  complimentary blanket once again like [TS]

  this comment [TS]

  Oh once again once again into the breach [TS]

  when immortan joe says that in in fury [TS]

  road it's funny because like i always [TS]

  think of the airline's you know because [TS]

  the very very very very very first words [TS]

  out of anyone's mouth on the plane every [TS]

  time is like a lot of on your laptop to [TS]

  facilitate high well Zaun pocket for a [TS]

  quiet place for out of the heart was [TS]

  possible it was all so here's what you [TS]

  know what fuck this we're not gonna talk [TS]

  about planes i also hate how they have [TS]

  to have two words for everything you did [TS]

  get up until you come to a full and [TS]

  complete stop [TS]

  mm one great i got a whole list of these [TS]

  I believe that I've written I have [TS]

  written these down i have with me here [TS]

  I know I read some short fiction about [TS]

  this one time yeah about the about the [TS]

  use of two words to describe everything [TS]

  ok what are some of the other ones but [TS]

  yeah there's a lot of redundancy on a [TS]

  plane anyway and I don't talk about that [TS]

  I've never read your fiction i feel like [TS]

  this is something this is this to me [TS]

  there's a reason for that [TS]

  I won't even read my fiction who I [TS]

  thought about this the other day why [TS]

  don't you write fiction there was a time [TS]

  when you were young you tried to write [TS]

  fiction wrote fiction all the time [TS]

  Sheriff fiction but uh but it's not it's [TS]

  just not in me [TS]

  oh my goodness it's a who you know it's [TS]

  like yeah it's a lot of work and who [TS]

  really wants to read it [TS]

  yeah right you sit down here like uh [TS]

  mazing clots lives in a neighborhood in [TS]

  a house they should always open with [TS]

  whether that's the thing always open [TS]

  with whether Maisie Glotz looked out [TS]

  upon the rain the pounding rain the [TS]

  American seen purple throw like poetry [TS]

  at this point you know like i said my [TS]

  piece has a young verse Smith that you [TS]

  know the other people who read poems or [TS]

  other poets and I know it's not entirely [TS]

  true fiction today but it kind of feels [TS]

  that way sometimes but it's just other [TS]

  fiction writers we I don't know I don't [TS]

  know I can say what I did this morning [TS]

  i'm sitting here I'm gonna happen a lot [TS]

  of pain right now [TS]

  Oh No [TS]

  you know they did you decide on a hat [TS]

  pin in my dreams [TS]

  now I pulled a muscle in my neck opening [TS]

  a curtain [TS]

  Wow and it's an easy curtain [TS]

  it's like a real light curtain all I did [TS]

  was whisked away with with a kind of [TS]

  like zen-like certainly like a wish and [TS]

  I went a little bit too hard and now i [TS]

  can barely move my head [TS]

  did did did did your children gather [TS]

  around and put your you're clear plastic [TS]

  carapace on you're not haha yes they [TS]

  separated they spray some stuff on the I [TS]

  guess that's probably they're probably [TS]

  sunscreen they spray on Emma trapped in [TS]

  your 59 Cadillac mark medals be so great [TS]

  if my daughter would put me in a bit of [TS]

  plastic carapace and pin my non-existent [TS]

  metals to me [TS]

  yeah just be like you are chrome now [TS]

  shiny chrome she's already at school CC [TS]

  that you saw the movie huh what you [TS]

  talking about [TS]

  yeah I want to see the movie the other [TS]

  night again at the cinerama oh nice [TS]

  Paul Allen's Paul Allen's in her life [TS]

  and made outer and it was like a [TS]

  midnight show and I was driving around [TS]

  the lonely streets pretty much exactly [TS]

  like glenn frey in Joshua Tree know and [TS]

  we belong to the night [TS]

  oh yeah to see you know the steam coming [TS]

  out of this the steam holy very says [TS]

  that cinematographic it was [TS]

  cinematographic I was driving around the [TS]

  town all by my lonesome just just [TS]

  looking at the night crawlers and I was [TS]

  like there's the cinerama oh they're [TS]

  playing uh mad max fury road [TS]

  oh there's a midnight show oh I'm gonna [TS]

  go and hold them and I went inside by [TS]

  myself in the middle of the night my god [TS]

  and it's a yeah it's it's I'm watching [TS]

  it over and over now about the watch it [TS]

  over and over stage I know me 2i and I [TS]

  don't really like a movie because i [TS]

  watch it over and over all watch it [TS]

  when I first got my hands on a copy i [TS]

  was watching it twice a night which is [TS]

  weird every you got your hands on a copy [TS]

  how do you do know you can't but as soon [TS]

  as the movie would end and you know he'd [TS]

  give that little nod and then little [TS]

  elevators going and you're like I'm like [TS]

  that's it [TS]

  no just turn it back on it- i really [TS]

  like because i'll start like partway [TS]

  through wrong I'll jump I'll jump [TS]

  straight to the like the last act or you [TS]

  know I don't know I just want to watch [TS]

  that one wants that dust storm [TS]

  oh man sequence i have talked about this [TS]

  a movie a lot in a lot of places so I [TS]

  don't overdo it but there is something [TS]

  just spectacular about it and I sensed i [TS]

  still am amazed and and watching the [TS]

  behind-the-scenes stuff I can't talk [TS]

  about this a long time like [TS]

  behind-the-scenes stuff where are you [TS]

  getting all this extra material [TS]

  well you can be something that you [TS]

  torrented I don't know what that is also [TS]

  avoid torrance they're dangerous [TS]

  did you go on the onion 1 the Deep Web i [TS]

  watched the netflix movie about the [TS]

  darknet at the dark the dark web when [TS]

  you tell you didn't tell you told you [TS]

  not to go into his work is really more [TS]

  about silk road it was something that [TS]

  was meant to be so it's directed this [TS]

  directed by Bill and Ted Bell Ted will [TS]

  build directed it and Ted is the [TS]

  narrator and it's mostly about Silk Road [TS]

  out cocks to this and said his name was [TS]

  not to get the decision Nancy I'm [TS]

  confused [TS]

  well you know this pointer alex winter [TS]

  this winter yeah so anyway it was good [TS]

  and it was really sad it was super set i [TS]

  learned that screams you ready for this [TS]

  guess what turns out that I I one point [TS]

  they showed they they said this guy [TS]

  lived in west portal and they showed a [TS]

  flash and turns out he was living in a [TS]

  place that I go by all the time that's [TS]

  just about half a mile from my house [TS]

  wow did you go knock on the front door [TS]

  is not listed as I've always known this [TS]

  place to be totally sketch it has a real [TS]

  Russian mobster feel you no idea if [TS]

  you're leaving from my house take the l [TS]

  and you make that right turn onto 15 [TS]

  yeah by the butcher shop and there's [TS]

  this place on the corner sometimes it's [TS]

  a beauty salon mostly just a lot of guys [TS]

  out front smoking coach across-the-board [TS]

  do it right and so yeah totally [TS]

  he had a sublet their he was they had a [TS]

  fake name and that's where the Silk Road [TS]

  guy live for a while [TS]

  what a crazy if you watch that movie [TS]

  it's crazy [TS]

  no because you know after my after my [TS]

  several years on 4chan yeah probably [TS]

  I i purposely ejected myself from the [TS]

  seedy underbelly of the internet and [TS]

  never to return it was you know there [TS]

  was a there was a while there I was like [TS]

  listen I am NOT going to go gently into [TS]

  this goodnight i'm gonna rage rage [TS]

  against the dying of the light [TS]

  Who I am going to know about all of the [TS]

  dark corners as your peers your pecans [TS]

  and research right well be you know I [TS]

  was not well just put your nose [TS]

  no no that you're putting your nose into [TS]

  a lot of dark corners because up until [TS]

  the up until the internet i try i tried [TS]

  as a young person to know all of the [TS]

  dark corners of life that I could [TS]

  stomach firsthand right i went into the [TS]

  actual door of places that the that [TS]

  repelled me because I didn't want to be [TS]

  somebody that didn't know uh the limits [TS]

  of at first I thought the limits of [TS]

  human experience and then I realized I [TS]

  was never I was not capable of exploring [TS]

  the limits of human experience but I was [TS]

  capable likes exploring the limits of my [TS]

  own my own limits as far as like a where [TS]

  I became not just uncomfortable but [TS]

  where I became where I felt like under [TS]

  siege [TS]

  you know i would i would go do i would [TS]

  subject myself you're you're pushing [TS]

  your own limits as well as discovering [TS]

  the how far other people got ya right [TS]

  and so like a good i participate in [TS]

  rough trade no good eyewitness rough [TS]

  trade yeah and-and-and that was part of [TS]

  how I was trying to make myself so when [TS]

  it went a lot of that went to the [TS]

  internet I was like well i have to you [TS]

  know I can't let it go [TS]

  I can't let there be worlds that I don't [TS]

  know about [TS]

  yeah i mean there are certainly corners [TS]

  of the world i prefer not to know about [TS]

  but there can't be world's I don't have [TS]

  any knowledge of and so yeah when I went [TS]

  in there like who [TS]

  who's in here you know slam open [TS]

  hello lose it and then I was like oh [TS]

  shit yeah and uh and then I was then I [TS]

  was quiet and sitting on a hard stool in [TS]

  what I hoped wasn't unnoticeable corner [TS]

  of a place where i was like a lot of [TS]

  this a large percentage of this is fake [TS]

  but something or fake or heavily [TS]

  exaggerated yeah it's like anything on [TS]

  the internet like it doesn't cost [TS]

  anything for a sixteen-year-old to dummy [TS]

  up a a world and you just and you just [TS]

  see that it doesn't it doesn't hold [TS]

  water and I'm not somebody that can can [TS]

  say like oh that's been shipped or [TS]

  whatever but enough of it is enough of [TS]

  what i saw was just like you know [TS]

  indisputably true [TS]

  and-and-and-and I knew about it you know [TS]

  I knew about it in my in my mind's eye I [TS]

  had read accounts but on the on the [TS]

  internet you see can see it you can pay [TS]

  for it you know and I was like a right [TS]

  so it is ultimately like kind of [TS]

  limitless what humans can do and do do [TS]

  I didn't I guess I needed that confirmed [TS]

  yeah because you don't you don't think [TS]

  about it and they're always there were [TS]

  always doors that I didn't go [TS]

  you know you go into the door and [TS]

  there's a bunch of guys sitting around [TS]

  you go through the second door and [TS]

  there's fewer guys in there then they [TS]

  make you uncomfortable and then there's [TS]

  a third door and the question in [TS]

  everybody's eyes is like you're going to [TS]

  go through the third door and most of [TS]

  the time you say no as a matter of fact [TS]

  thank you [TS]

  yeah this second door was enough for me [TS]

  makes me feel weird already I'm out of [TS]

  here [TS]

  but but so yeah silkroad just seemed [TS]

  like a bunch of people by an ecstasy on [TS]

  the internet but some of that some of [TS]

  that [TS]

  yes yeah i mean there are there are [TS]

  there are variety of well you know I [TS]

  don't get too deep into it but I mean [TS]

  there's nothing there's a lot of a lot [TS]

  of good valid and noble even noble [TS]

  reasons for wanting to say hey look [TS]

  not everybody needs to know what I'm [TS]

  doing all the time then I I think of all [TS]

  the edgy stuff going on in the world [TS]

  today i think that's pretty excusable to [TS]

  say that they hate you know what the [TS]

  only way that something like that [TS]

  obfuscation through tor works is if you [TS]

  use it for everything if you only if you [TS]

  have if you have a house if you have a [TS]

  room in your house where you go only to [TS]

  masturbate then that's going to get [TS]

  known as the masturbation room like [TS]

  that's just gonna happen but if you if [TS]

  you have multiple offers her laptop [TS]

  it's called a studio with almost no it's [TS]

  not it's a private studio and I have a [TS]

  fresh blanket plums that's my studio [TS]

  look just nobody goes into my studio [TS]

  that's where i have all my figure [TS]

  figurines action figurines arranged [TS]

  Michelle action figurines like it like [TS]

  camels or lladros of devil [TS]

  ya sure ya anyway I don't know I i feel [TS]

  like i have i'm such an old man in this [TS]

  sense where I i can't help but believe [TS]

  that anything that you expose yourself [TS]

  to repeatedly on purpose will eventually [TS]

  have some kind of an affect on you not [TS]

  you know borough and video games do not [TS]

  caused by I'm not even saying that I'm [TS]

  saying that like you know you can just [TS]

  look no further than anybody who's [TS]

  and like you know look at the career [TS]

  longevity of people who do stuff like [TS]

  you know child protective services or [TS]

  homicide or or anything like that just [TS]

  what you have to have you been doing [TS]

  homicide for 20-plus years now inhabit [TS]

  your belt sir [TS]

  oh I speak coconuts got that they never [TS]

  get tired now [TS]

  now they are they're made of tougher [TS]

  stuff but you know and i think this even [TS]

  as like and I i have obviously i don't [TS]

  know exactly what you're talking about [TS]

  but i can guess it's a lot of probably [TS]

  about human suffering and grossest and I [TS]

  mean I think we've all been interested [TS]

  in things whether even if it's just [TS]

  something like research magazine [TS]

  we're like are you know anymore those [TS]

  those trade paperbacks of research we [TS]

  were like wow it's amazing this guy [TS]

  wants to hang from hooks that's got to [TS]

  be one of the most out-there things I've [TS]

  ever seen but like if you expose [TS]

  yourself to let you know what is [TS]

  something like I just I just think i got [TS]

  i try to be careful about what I expose [TS]

  myself to too often because it will have [TS]

  an impact even if that impact is now i'm [TS]

  a nerd toward you know how base people [TS]

  can be and I started imagining [TS]

  everybody's like that which they're not [TS]

  no no I mean that the horrible stuff is [TS]

  all the stuff words that you know if the [TS]

  research stuff was all very [TS]

  mind-expanding at the time the the the [TS]

  idea that somebody would want to hang [TS]

  from their nipples [TS]

  it wasn't as Bob what's-his-name the [TS]

  super masochist you remember him [TS]

  sure well what's his name but he was [TS]

  everywhere he was like the patron saint [TS]

  of research right yeah that was that was [TS]

  that was those were fun times in [TS]

  interesting times but what can I because [TS]

  when sexual it was like I choose I [TS]

  choose to put a hula hoop in my nipple [TS]

  like the thing I do [TS]

  yeah the internet gives you access to [TS]

  all those people whose whose pleasure is [TS]

  to cause suffering to other people who [TS]

  aren't voluntary volunteering and that [TS]

  some that's the stuff we're just like oh [TS]

  there's no limit to that like the [TS]

  depravity we all there's that there's [TS]

  this crazy thing in our in our culture [TS]

  and I'm [TS]

  I suffer from it too which is that [TS]

  morbid fascination with serial killers [TS]

  and you know and serial killers become a [TS]

  kind of proxy for all of the worst of us [TS]

  and that you know and it it's amazing [TS]

  that hundreds of thousands of people [TS]

  have read detailed accounts of what Ted [TS]

  Bundy did right I'm like I don't know [TS]

  millions of people maybe half and and [TS]

  even what Gary Ridgway did like read [TS]

  those accounts and mold them over and [TS]

  turn them over in their minds and said [TS]

  like wow like awful but also like not so [TS]

  awful that I didn't buy and read this [TS]

  book about it or were like so awful in [TS]

  fact that i bought and read this book [TS]

  about it so it's a little bit i have to [TS]

  be honest is a little bit pornographic [TS]

  cuz i've found myself drawn to that it [TS]

  too and it's why I sometimes ask myself [TS]

  like like you know whether it's that [TS]

  horrible picture of the little boy [TS]

  drowned on the beach that we have all [TS]

  recently seen or whether it's a [TS]

  documentary about the Holocaust I i do [TS]

  try to catch myself and go like is this [TS]

  how much of this is empathetic and how [TS]

  much of this educational how much of [TS]

  this is just purely sensationalistic and [TS]

  verging on pornography [TS]

  well and that's that's what's so crazy [TS]

  because I mean we've talked about the [TS]

  Nazis a lot and the Holocaust alot but [TS]

  but you know the amount of time I've [TS]

  spent imagining what it was like it to [TS]

  that what it was like from the [TS]

  standpoint of almost everybody at [TS]

  Auschwitz like the people who are [TS]

  running it [TS]

  the people who were you going into the [TS]

  showers the people who were clearing out [TS]

  the shower right and and all by way of [TS]

  in some ways understanding what what we [TS]

  are [TS]

  and it ended in forms this worldview [TS]

  that I have that like likes civil and [TS]

  not just civilization but but a good and [TS]

  evil rights and and rules you know [TS]

  they're all systems that we are that we [TS]

  impose upon ourselves and more or less [TS]

  are living according to voluntarily and [TS]

  and they you know like don't don't [TS]

  believe that the dark side is kept at [TS]

  bay by rules the dark side is framed by [TS]

  rule [TS]

  yeah without rules he couldn't make the [TS]

  darkside scalable but but you know but [TS]

  what-what 4chan and what the tour and [TS]

  what the what what the Deep Web showed [TS]

  me was that like the man out of the [TS]

  bonala t of it but also that isn't even [TS]

  descriptive like Bundy was not unusual [TS]

  even and you know and there's [TS]

  just--there's just suffering on on top [TS]

  of suffering in this world suffering [TS]

  that like suffering that we are imposing [TS]

  on people suffering in the form of you [TS]

  think the just millions and millions of [TS]

  people living in in conditions that are [TS]

  are not unimaginable they're very [TS]

  imaginable their witnesses all and yet [TS]

  somehow we compartmentalize those things [TS]

  such that we are able to be so mad about [TS]

  Apple customer service or so mad about [TS]

  the airline's you know and and you know [TS]

  and can you can you can be sitting on an [TS]

  airline so mad about your treatments and [TS]

  open a book where the book is detailing [TS]

  scenarios where bodies are piled upon [TS]

  bodies and you're just like Oh [TS]

  my goodness grotesque you know that was [TS]

  60 years ago or or that's happening [TS]

  right now but in Burma or that's [TS]

  happening right now but in basements all [TS]

  across Russia or something but Mike but [TS]

  I excuse me miss miss my I need more ice [TS]

  in my in my free soda here and I'd end [TS]

  it just it's something that I can't ever [TS]

  I can't ever get a purchase on reality i [TS]

  guess there is no reality and there's [TS]

  only my reality my present reality and [TS]

  you know and maybe that's why i'm up at [TS]

  four thirty in the morning stacking [TS]

  angels on the head of a pin yep could be [TS]

  part of it [TS]

  I don't know I you know I also wonder [TS]

  sometimes how much of it is a form of [TS]

  chasing the dragon which you described [TS]

  as that feeling of especially with [TS]

  heroine of the first the first how you [TS]

  get from that you'll never really [TS]

  replicate without increasing the amount [TS]

  but still don't really be the same and [TS]

  you suck you can't really you can't [TS]

  really replicate that and I wonder if [TS]

  there's just what part of it is that you [TS]

  become one become slightly addicted to [TS]

  something that makes you seem to feel [TS]

  more strongly than you've ever felt [TS]

  before that you know and I'm not putting [TS]

  this in really simple terms because I [TS]

  think there is something to be said for [TS]

  educating yourself about all kinds of [TS]

  stuff in the world that's not savory [TS]

  just knowing about it doesn't mean you [TS]

  agree with it but there is stuff that [TS]

  everybody needs to know about even stuff [TS]

  that's not particularly nice now do you [TS]

  need to spend five hours a night on that [TS]

  I don't know and it depends on what [TS]

  we're talking about i guess but i also [TS]

  think part of it just might be that I [TS]

  don't know that this might sound [TS]

  old-fashioned but I think that the more [TS]

  what you're generally calling rough [TS]

  trade them the more kind of shocking [TS]

  stuff that you expose yourself to the [TS]

  more you want to see and that doesn't [TS]

  just have to be Bob Flanagan super [TS]

  masochist that could also be like what [TS]

  how much crazier is Kanye West gonna get [TS]

  this guy's and not and i have an opinion [TS]

  about it and it seems i think all that [TS]

  serves a kind of addiction kind of [TS]

  addictive personality people have it [TS]

  just it may find more or less objection [TS]

  mol outcomes but i think there's there's [TS]

  something to a lot of people we're [TS]

  always looking for that next thing [TS]

  that's not gonna make them feel this [TS]

  charge get this dopamine hit and it [TS]

  becomes very difficult to pull yourself [TS]

  away from that and you find yourself [TS]

  seeking something that makes makes you [TS]

  feel stronger and stronger until it can [TS]

  become consuming me is that is that is [TS]

  that does that sound like a crazy [TS]

  anti-pornography kind of stance [TS]

  I don't mean it that way but many sounds [TS]

  like sounds like what people would say [TS]

  about pornography i think it's i think [TS]

  it's important for all of us to [TS]

  recognize when we are in an unhealthy [TS]

  relationship with Amy stay any kind of [TS]

  external source of stimulation yeah any [TS]

  stimulus right if you are essentially [TS]

  anything outside of us we're like you [TS]

  like the reason you don't take fucking [TS]

  cold pills because you don't want that [TS]

  right i mean any time where the whatever [TS]

  dragon were chasing there's something [TS]

  out there that we know is potentially [TS]

  capable of giving us a certain kind of [TS]

  surprisingly strong stimulation [TS]

  yeah it's me and it ends up being any [TS]

  time you've been in the hospital where [TS]

  you had a morphine drip and you and you [TS]

  see that you know you've got a button [TS]

  you can push the button and give [TS]

  yourself morphine when you're in pain [TS]

  but the nurses have some governor on it [TS]

  is not just unlimited but there's a big [TS]

  difference between the people that sit [TS]

  and wait until they have kind of one [TS]

  what they can feel the pain is becoming [TS]

  unendurable and then they push the [TS]

  button versus the people that are just [TS]

  like waiting for the button to reup you [TS]

  know they're pushing it all the time and [TS]

  that way for the rehab you know and that [TS]

  is in our culture the whole game [TS]

  I mean everybody out there is waiting [TS]

  for us to you know everybody out there [TS]

  is trying to provide us another [TS]

  opportunity to reup re-up with Star Wars [TS]

  reup with you the next episode of the [TS]

  Americans reup with a cool new you know [TS]

  the cool new shoes that you deserve [TS]

  because you're [TS]

  because you work hard the you know the [TS]

  reup that the buying and the and the [TS]

  pleasing yourself and the pleasuring [TS]

  yourself and and to resist it when it [TS]

  comes from all corners because your [TS]

  Minister on sunday is also like [TS]

  providing a version of it and your [TS]

  parents are providing you versions of it [TS]

  and at its the we have turned it into [TS]

  with fetishized consumption in all walks [TS]

  of life so that just you know to say [TS]

  I've had enough pie I've had a you know [TS]

  No thank you I don't need seconds is not [TS]

  just like to potentially offend the host [TS]

  but to be a radical like a us like to be [TS]

  seditious almost to say no thank you [TS]

  know I do not want to die i cannot i [TS]

  cannot join in the excitement about the [TS]

  new Star Wars not because I'm not kind [TS]

  of excited about the new Star Wars but [TS]

  because there are too many opportunities [TS]

  for it to their you know too many [TS]

  opportunities for that kind of [TS]

  stimulation to to own me [TS]

  yeah yeah and because you're infj right [TS]

  yeah [TS]

  again with the pie um again with the [TS]

  pyrite don't know but like that was it i [TS]

  was using pi in a different way and that [TS]

  y'know I heard the word heart behind and [TS]

  I was like oh sure pie but wait it's a [TS]

  different time a different thing I i get [TS]

  that with video games that's me and [TS]

  video games were like I i have come to [TS]

  realize the video games can be very [TS]

  special and awesome but I i don't i [TS]

  don't mean this in disparaging way but I [TS]

  don't want that in my life because for [TS]

  me to get to the level where i could [TS]

  really enjoy the way my friends enjoy it [TS]

  would take so many hours and days and [TS]

  weeks which i might really enjoy but all [TS]

  I can think about is what I won't be [TS]

  doing when I be doing that and it's an [TS]

  attractive says his hand [TS]

  in law and attractive nuisance like I [TS]

  have that in the house i'm going to feel [TS]

  bad about the fact that I spade $500 for [TS]

  this game box and don't use it or I'm [TS]

  gonna feel terrible about the amount of [TS]

  time i spend my five-hundred-dollar [TS]

  gamebox neither of those four where I am [TS]

  mentally right now are emotionally right [TS]

  now is going to make me feel good about [TS]

  that right but mhm but there's the other [TS]

  like the danger i think in seeing [TS]

  because I'm not somebody that sees [TS]

  tyranny it as a as a conspiratorial you [TS]

  know like a like I'm not worried about [TS]

  outside forces with a gun to my head [TS]

  forcing me to kneel and eat the gruel [TS]

  I don't worry about being colonized know [TS]

  as much as I'm worried about that [TS]

  process of of voluntary submission who [TS]

  and all of the all the small government [TS]

  libertarians up in montana who are [TS]

  worried about obama's jackbooted thugs [TS]

  are strange to me because they are all [TS]

  like greedily gulping at the teat of [TS]

  whoever the proof of the service [TS]

  providers of their own mythology and [TS]

  products and they are buying into and [TS]

  and buying with money all of the [TS]

  accoutrements of their cult thinking [TS]

  with note with no self-awareness right [TS]

  there and and that stuff is the real [TS]

  that that's where your mind is really [TS]

  colonized where you know they are they [TS]

  are the rats tapping on the red button [TS]

  that's that that's satisfying their urge [TS]

  to feel persecuted but so I'm not [TS]

  worried about about the about the ATF [TS]

  coming through the door [TS]

  I'm worried about the heed to what [TS]

  degree I am self-medicating by my [TS]

  consumption of [TS]

  and.and I'm not serial killer porn isn't [TS]

  what I'm worried about [TS]

  and I Anna eventually i'm not sure [TS]

  ultimately I'm not sure what I am [TS]

  worried about because I guard myself so [TS]

  carefully against ever becoming a like a [TS]

  consumer but and so but but but that [TS]

  becomes a a strange kind of addiction [TS]

  the the addiction of like denial and [TS]

  discomfort and like no I will not I will [TS]

  not watch this again even though I want [TS]

  to because i don't want to become a [TS]

  prisoner to it and and so what ends up [TS]

  happening is I remember I used to get [TS]

  into arguments at the University of [TS]

  Washington all the time where I was or [TS]

  what I got back from long long stays in [TS]

  Germany and tried to convince people [TS]

  that there is nothing in contemporary [TS]

  Germany that would that would indicate [TS]

  the Holocaust there's nothing in [TS]

  contemporary Germany that would give you [TS]

  special insight into what happened there [TS]

  70 years ago [TS]

  you cannot detect it you can't detect it [TS]

  in Germans you cannot detect it in the [TS]

  ground is we're talking about like how [TS]

  swastikas have been chipped off the [TS]

  bridges and stuff [TS]

  yeah but the largest have been chipped [TS]

  off of the bridges of their minds to [TS]

  like whatever it was whatever it was [TS]

  that was in the the Germans is not [TS]

  visible in in being friends with Germans [TS]

  in interacting with Germans it's not you [TS]

  don't you don't go to Germany and say oh [TS]

  boy i see it's just they're just they're [TS]

  just playing nice right now but if the [TS]

  opportunity arises they're all going to [TS]

  become monsters again like that is not [TS]

  the case they are as committed to [TS]

  liberal democracy there as anyone in the [TS]

  world and [TS]

  are just as humane as the most like [TS]

  they're just as committed and just as [TS]

  there's nothing in their character that [TS]

  suggests it and so what that says to me [TS]

  is that it is in all of our character [TS]

  all the time they are not just [TS]

  pretending to be liberal democrats there [TS]

  they are deeply Liberal Democrats and so [TS]

  that's not the evidence you know and the [TS]

  fact that it didn't happen in Sweden [TS]

  doesn't make the Swedes superior to the [TS]

  Germans morally or or otherwise and so [TS]

  it's that that impulse to slaughter and [TS]

  that impulse to be rid of impurity and [TS]

  the impulse to systematize not just [TS]

  murder but to systematize in humanity is [TS]

  in us all not even really dormant but [TS]

  just being exercised in different ways [TS]

  you know it's being it's being satisfied [TS]

  in different ways and so it's all of our [TS]

  responsibility to recognize it in [TS]

  ourselves in those small ways and say [TS]

  listen I am the Holocaust is in me I [TS]

  could commit this i am not one of the [TS]

  ones who would have stood stood up and [TS]

  said no I am absolutely one of the ones [TS]

  who would have drawn the blinds and said [TS]

  oh I'm not sure what the smell is that's [TS]

  coming from the forest right you know [TS]

  and and that acknowledgement and the [TS]

  recognition that then it you know it [TS]

  always starts you know that the [TS]

  arguments that we have about like a [TS]

  violent movies don't cause violence and [TS]

  the violent video games don't Colonel [TS]

  cause violence and it's such a it's such [TS]

  a thing on the internet that if you're [TS]

  on the wrong side of it you're [TS]

  like you're some PMRC anti-pornography [TS]

  guess it's kind of a scold scold like [TS]

  you're saying and and and in fact like [TS]

  those things [TS]

  no they do not cause violence they are [TS]

  outlets for this concordance tremendous [TS]

  violence that since all and that's the [TS]

  thing we should always be looking at and [TS]

  thinking about and where because so mean [TS]

  so many people in my experience refused [TS]

  to acknowledge the violence that's in [TS]

  them at all and and so when violence [TS]

  arrives on the scene even in the form of [TS]

  like confrontation about something and [TS]

  in a starbucks line there's all this [TS]

  like all everyone so appalled because [TS]

  we're all so basically civilized because [TS]

  we're civilized now and yet any amount [TS]

  of violence any raised voices or angry [TS]

  looks are this like terrible assault and [TS]

  and we're um and we should be above it [TS]

  but in fact like we each of us and all [TS]

  of us are complicit in murder every day [TS]

  that's that's why didn't interrupt you [TS]

  but this is what keeps everything [TS]

  everything you're saying it's me [TS]

  thinking about something that feels like [TS]

  an elephant in the room you're [TS]

  describing a germany where like you [TS]

  think about most Americans and most [TS]

  American lot of Americans definitely i [TS]

  was growing up with memories of World [TS]

  War two the depending on how you measure [TS]

  it [TS]

  what would that be the you know sixteen [TS]

  to twenty some years that the Nazis had [TS]

  some kind of power and and work we were [TS]

  just they were not just dictating that [TS]

  they had actually you know they had the [TS]

  support of Industry and people but but [TS]

  that was what was that was maybe maybe [TS]

  20 years and we still we still think of [TS]

  yet really 15 16 years and now we still [TS]

  think of like Oh Germany they were the [TS]

  Nazis but what you're describing is a [TS]

  country where it is not simply a matter [TS]

  of having trying trying to obliterate [TS]

  the past but trying to like actively [TS]

  evolved to be different people while at [TS]

  the same time [TS]

  you know I'll be that guy we give [TS]

  ourselves a pass for 400 years of [TS]

  slavery and probably two or three [TS]

  hundred years of slaughtering natives [TS]

  and all kinds of other stuff we're like [TS]

  we give ourselves a pass for that and we [TS]

  look old shoes we look at all these [TS]

  places where people are treated really [TS]

  badly but we don't ever but it isn't as [TS]

  that we stopped the paws with that [TS]

  monster is still in us we know that [TS]

  monster still in Germany because they [TS]

  were the bad guys in World War two but [TS]

  while it may have happened [TS]

  the the worst parts of that kind of [TS]

  racism and colonialism may have happened [TS]

  over a hundred fifty years ago in our [TS]

  case we were pretty good at it and [TS]

  institutionalized it way beyond what the [TS]

  church did we were able to make entire [TS]

  industries out of having slaves but it [TS]

  was a business we talked about it there [TS]

  was no there was no attempt to erase the [TS]

  record of that or burn the books that [TS]

  showed who'd been sold to whom [TS]

  whose child had been sent to another [TS]

  state with no attempt to cover that up [TS]

  because it was evolving so slowly and [TS]

  now today we look at that old that's [TS]

  ancient history but I guess what I'm [TS]

  trying to ask partly his first following [TS]

  us two parts i mean isn't fair to say [TS]

  we've also got that monster and then in [TS]

  second of all do you think we have made [TS]

  the same effort as a modern German would [TS]

  try and actually evolved past either hit [TS]

  your historical monster because it was [TS]

  like we aren't I the I think that I [TS]

  think the scale of time it's so it's so [TS]

  funny that human life is what ninety [TS]

  years and in the course of 90 years like [TS]

  it's the it's the totality of reality [TS]

  right wheel we don't really know that [TS]

  anything that happened before us [TS]

  actually happened right there are some [TS]

  buildings standing around that you [TS]

  you presume were built before you were [TS]

  born but it all seems a little unreal [TS]

  that anything happened before you never [TS]

  been I've never been in Nicaragua but i [TS]

  assume it's real [TS]

  however I've read a lot about it I've [TS]

  never been there either but i assume [TS]

  it's real I've seen pictures and books [TS]

  but you know 90 years is that that's the [TS]

  whole of our real first hand experience [TS]

  and so it seemed everything seemed so [TS]

  important [TS]

  was and we are so um we're so concerned [TS]

  with with a year and five years and 15 [TS]

  years but really that you know like [TS]

  almost almost nothing that happens in 15 [TS]

  years really you know that really [TS]

  matters or or yet it it's sort of a [TS]

  great man theory of history right that [TS]

  that one person can have this tremendous [TS]

  effect but as the more you zoom out the [TS]

  more you realize it's just waves of of [TS]

  events and there it and it's kind of a [TS]

  myth that that that even Hitler really [TS]

  had that much of an effect but if you if [TS]

  you zoom out and look at it on it on it [TS]

  certainly on a thousand years timeline [TS]

  but up you know on a 10,000 year [TS]

  timeline like he just disappears and and [TS]

  I think about this a lot of it and it [TS]

  gets me in in trouble because like you [TS]

  read the thing [TS]

  not very long ago where that the current [TS]

  thinking is that the trauma of the [TS]

  Holocaust actually is encoded [TS]

  genetically all right in in the [TS]

  survivors in the next generation he said [TS]

  if that's true it basically it changes a [TS]

  lot of what we know about history [TS]

  it changes it absolutely change history [TS]

  but at a certain point like it it in the [TS]

  immediate scale it changes it because it [TS]

  means like oh right the african-american [TS]

  population of the united states has a [TS]

  genetic memory of 400 years of slavery [TS]

  like the Holocaust happened not in 15 [TS]

  years the Holocaust largely happened in [TS]

  two years [TS]

  right right and if that was like they [TS]

  had they had that 18 really strong [TS]

  months but it did it was not we you [TS]

  cannot just overlay that with the war i [TS]

  mean it it was really on i'm certainly [TS]

  how absolutely trying to minimize it but [TS]

  it's the the really when the Holocaust [TS]

  or the [TS]

  final solution i should say really got [TS]

  going I mean it wasn't more than three [TS]

  years really right it's not in 42 if [TS]

  that left a genetic imprint on this on [TS]

  surviving generations then slavery [TS]

  I mean was reinforced and reinforced [TS]

  through generation and generation and [TS]

  generation and if that's true then you [TS]

  know then there is something that then [TS]

  there's a genetic record that has been [TS]

  that you know that then starts to be [TS]

  part of natural selection right people [TS]

  are passing that down and passing the [TS]

  reinforcement of it down in generations [TS]

  but if that is true you don't have to [TS]

  zoom out very far to say well that is [TS]

  true of every single person on earth [TS]

  like [TS]

  like [TS]

  the the just in the historical record [TS]

  you can go back and find like well the [TS]

  Scots were brutalized by the English be [TS]

  you know the the thai people are only in [TS]

  Thailand because they were chased out of [TS]

  China 2,000 years ago [TS]

  china's got chinese got some pretty bad [TS]

  treatment from the Japanese right the [TS]

  right and so and so and the you know the [TS]

  the Mongol hordes that swept through [TS]

  Eastern Europe over and over and over [TS]

  again [TS]

  um you know just wiping out cultures [TS]

  after cultures and so then you look at [TS]

  every single human group and you find in [TS]

  their history like incredible trauma at [TS]

  incredible trauma inflicted on them as a [TS]

  group not just individual people and [TS]

  then when when you factor in that every [TS]

  single family has like up probably [TS]

  unmeasurable trauma in their past [TS]

  yeah i mean just I mean just think about [TS]

  even you know so so we we try to measure [TS]

  these kinds of tragedies by the number [TS]

  of people who died and not you can't [TS]

  even really how do you begin to take [TS]

  into account the secondary effects of [TS]

  like all the people you knew who were [TS]

  affected by it or people who let's just [TS]

  be honest the people who were killed as [TS]

  part of that but then let's say you know [TS]

  just having just the PTSD of having [TS]

  lived through that at all even if you [TS]

  came out of it with most of your stuff [TS]

  in your family alive he's still even [TS]

  imagine the PTSD of getting through that [TS]

  experience quote-unquote unscathed [TS]

  you're not unscathed like you'll be [TS]

  scarred forever by that experience for [TS]

  sure and and and I mean imagine [TS]

  surviving a famine where where you watch [TS]

  your children died and you watch your [TS]

  your parents died and you watched your [TS]

  you watch your loved ones died and you [TS]

  survived somehow [TS]

  at if if trauma is encoded in our genes [TS]

  we like our forefathers all of us [TS]

  survived like exponential compounded [TS]

  trauma [TS]

  it's the story of humanity so this is [TS]

  the same people who passed in the [TS]

  Holocaust also where their their [TS]

  grandparents for the victims of programs [TS]

  right and and and back and all the way [TS]

  you know and everyone so trauma so at [TS]

  that point it isn't news because we are [TS]

  all baked out of trauma and and so that [TS]

  is the human story we we are all we all [TS]

  of us have it from there the number of [TS]

  people who can go back 500 years and say [TS]

  no as a matter of fact for the last 500 [TS]

  years i come from i come from royal [TS]

  stock and we have all and we we've done [TS]

  nothing but eat the fat of the of the [TS]

  lamb for for 500 years and it's like [TS]

  really you didn't have there was nobody [TS]

  in that family that got early-onset [TS]

  Alzheimer's disease and and turned to [TS]

  generation into like like traumatized [TS]

  generation I'm and and even so that [TS]

  presumes that 500 years of good times [TS]

  erases the 50,000 years of trauma that I [TS]

  seated and I pretty pretty good run [TS]

  there for a while but then that [TS]

  genetically good times kind of get [TS]

  encoded in there too and I mean I [TS]

  presume that they be my stride of trauma [TS]

  drama shows up in the genetic record [TS]

  then then good times and lands aplenty [TS]

  must to and so it does it changes our [TS]

  understanding of history changes our [TS]

  understanding of ourselves but there's [TS]

  no group of people that can say that [TS]

  they have a that that that [TS]

  have some kind of lock on on trauma we [TS]

  just we can see that there are groups in [TS]

  recent history in recent memory who say [TS]

  like yes I personally experienced trauma [TS]

  or my grandmother did but um but it all [TS]

  you know it's all part of the the ones [TS]

  and zeros that make up our whole selves [TS]

  and so right now we're engaged in the [TS]

  civilizing project that's been happening [TS]

  since the end of world war two where [TS]

  we've changed the definition of what [TS]

  civilized is and we've we've all agreed [TS]

  more or less you know on this kind of [TS]

  like what we'd like it to look like but [TS]

  within America obviously we have we have [TS]

  two major different versions of what [TS]

  that looks like and now we're engaged in [TS]

  this like rooting out of of heresy and [TS]

  this this presumption that we can clean [TS]

  ourselves of our impulses to be [TS]

  predatory clean ourselves of our [TS]

  impulses to to hurt one another and to [TS]

  to be greedy and be xenophobic and and [TS]

  to live in fear and to act in fear and [TS]

  we can we can clean that behavior out of [TS]

  us and and walk into this future we [TS]

  imagine where were kind where our [TS]

  natures are kind and where unkindness [TS]

  isn't it you know we go through we go [TS]

  through this difficult birthing period [TS]

  where unkindness isn't tolerated in [TS]

  order to achieve a world where [TS]

  unkindness doesn't occur to us and [TS]

  that's a you know that is a major [TS]

  thought experiment first and [TS]

  and I don't have I don't i'm not sure [TS]

  that it works that way so that's that [TS]

  that's the difficulty I get into looking [TS]

  at history and and then going on the [TS]

  porch and and trying to understand [TS]

  people is just that you know what is our [TS]

  project is it to be is it tip is it to [TS]

  cleanse ourselves and become good [TS]

  sadly that was the impulse the Nazis had [TS]

  to and that was the IMP and that's [TS]

  always been the impulse of all the awful [TS]

  things that we've done in in the last [TS]

  400 years never thought of it that way [TS]

  is like we want to clean ourselves and [TS]

  get to that you know and get to a place [TS]

  where that where the dirtiness doesn't [TS]

  reappear and we're doing it again now [TS]

  and you know and I'm not comparing it to [TS]

  the to the Holocaust but what what's are [TS]

  you know what what do we see what gives [TS]

  us what is the evidence that we can be [TS]

  cleansed that way and and it without [TS]

  that evidence like what's another way of [TS]

  looking at it [TS]

  what's an alternative goal where we stop [TS]

  imagining that we can rid ourselves of [TS]

  evil and stop imagining that we can rid [TS]

  ourselves of violence and start [TS]

  imagining how we can accept those things [TS]

  about ourselves and incorporate those [TS]

  things into into a true clear-eyed [TS]

  understanding of what kind of animals we [TS]

  are but but nobody seems it to engage in [TS]

  that project because you know to presume [TS]

  to presume that were that we can't be [TS]

  perfect is too [TS]

  it is so many people are just like well [TS]

  if we can't be perfect then I don't [TS]

  wanna I don't want to play if week if we [TS]

  can't be perfect then that means too [TS]

  much that means that's there there's too [TS]

  much potential ugliness and so so [TS]

  instead i prefer to believe that we can [TS]

  be perfect and and and and that begins [TS]

  that should begin with my neighbors [TS]

  ok that perfect tap for impulse two [TS]

  perfect people is going to start with me [TS]

  trying to perfect my neighbors and it's [TS]

  just like oh here we go again [TS]

  I typical muscle in my shoulder [TS]

  where's my perfect your fucking getting [TS]

  old [TS]

  you're falling apart right in front of [TS]

  us were already cut the show everybody [TS]

  can hear it nothing but never air kind [TS]

  of please get a fresh blanket over here [TS]