0:00:00this episode of Roderick on the line is
0:00:01sponsored by cards against humanity they
0:00:04asked us not to read an ad
0:00:06hey just enjoy the show
0:00:13hello hey John hi Merlin how's it going
0:00:17good how are you going great that was a
0:00:21really really fast restart you must have
0:00:23some very recent equipment there
0:00:24yeah well I was restarting my computer
0:00:27and so I had to go get some herbal ciao
0:00:32from the grocery store across the street
0:00:35that stocks trouble child to feed all
0:00:37the gerbils inside my now completely our
0:00:42cake computer device which still looks
0:00:46very modern
0:00:47mm that's what's deceptive about it
0:00:48right okay students the design was so
0:00:52ahead of its time that it's still up to
0:00:53me at least looks very very modern
0:00:56I have two beloved Apple devices at my
0:00:59house right now that it won't turn on at
0:01:00all and it looks like something from
0:01:02Star Trek there's some modern oh they're
0:01:04very modern I my extremely modern phone
0:01:07has has been engaging in conversation
0:01:12recently about how my icloud is almost
0:01:18full
0:01:19oh yeah my wife wakes up to that
0:01:21literally every morning and it's
0:01:23interesting when I think about it
0:01:25because of course the I mean how can a
0:01:28cloud be full
0:01:29alright miss you know i mean when i
0:01:32think about and I think about it got
0:01:34cloud can't be full
0:01:35I mean it rains when it when it gets
0:01:37full cloud rains clouds can get very
0:01:41very big before you would describe them
0:01:43as full they can retain a lot of matter
0:01:45but my phone insists that it's time for
0:01:49me to either upgrade to a to it to a
0:01:54plan of the bigger cloud basically it's
0:01:57saying attach some additional heels to
0:02:01your neck or the alternative is go to
0:02:06apple / menu dot a details that's the
0:02:11point that it going / fields / but going
0:02:14flat heels and they'll walk you through
0:02:17a very easy process where you can manage
0:02:20your content in the sense that each app
0:02:24and
0:02:26favorable has a content management
0:02:29capability which enables you to not know
0:02:32at all anything about how much space
0:02:37things are using or how that is part of
0:02:40how they're operating system adjudicates
0:02:44what they do what they do is they show
0:02:46you some bars some colored bars that
0:02:49indicate where that what what your how
0:02:52full your cloud is yeah the biggest one
0:02:56of those bars is something you can do
0:02:58nothing about nor can you understand it
0:03:01and then the other bars are all
0:03:04similarly opaque in the the bar called
0:03:06other other right and then but what's
0:03:09wonderful is that they say like oh if
0:03:10you'd like to manage your content and
0:03:12which is what i would actually prefer to
0:03:13do i would prefer to manage my content
0:03:16who would prefer to manage was on the
0:03:18phone and not have the phone full of
0:03:22secret contracts not have it full of
0:03:25user and user agreements that give away
0:03:28all of my information to a chelsea
0:03:32manning i would prefer to just be able
0:03:35to go in there and see very clearly
0:03:37what's there and call the things i do
0:03:40not want and they present it as though
0:03:43that is the possible that is it not only
0:03:45a possibility but it's just a simple
0:03:47simple process you just follow the
0:03:48little arrow from you no applecare down
0:03:54to apple don't care
0:03:56snap and uh and yet uh i would need a
0:04:03computer maths degree from a community
0:04:06Comic technically it's a certificate
0:04:08that certificate i would need a
0:04:10certification that you can get on nights
0:04:12and weekends while working a year your
0:04:16overnight shift at denny's and then i
0:04:19would also need this is the key
0:04:21this is the this is the thing that that
0:04:24they don't tell you i would need one
0:04:25year of free time that I had nothing
0:04:28better to do than to sit and figure out
0:04:31how to freaking delete that what i can
0:04:34delete from my phone so so in summary it
0:04:38just works
0:04:39and what's amazing is it looks very very
0:04:43modern and everything every modern
0:04:45message my wife wakes up to every day
0:04:47since you guys the cloud is full of
0:04:49Congress was so satisfying because it's
0:04:51so just that the fonts were chosen
0:04:54various the chamfered edges and not the
0:04:56hand weight even the hand feel ya it
0:04:59snaps to a grid and it
0:05:01yeah that's true yeah but any kin any
0:05:04case so I'm very excited and you know
0:05:06and what's funny is that you just you
0:05:08feel you and I have you Knife resist
0:05:11resignation all the time right
0:05:14why did i do i do not like to make
0:05:16decisions from a place of resignation
0:05:18I know that you don't either i prefer
0:05:21not to lie i liked I'd like to
0:05:23understand what I'm resigning to and NY
0:05:26right and this entire meal based economy
0:05:29is an economy predicated on resignation
0:05:34we just we give them the like the
0:05:39appearance of a choice where one of the
0:05:42choices is non-functioning and the other
0:05:46choice we just keep saying like it's so
0:05:48simple all you have to do is just
0:05:49upgrade it just paid just pits start
0:05:52paying in on a monthly basis
0:05:54uh-huh or of course there's this very
0:05:56simple other direction you could go
0:05:57which and which is a which is a trap
0:05:59Street at every turn like dead end dead
0:06:02end dead end and it all just redirects
0:06:05you back like that scene in animal house
0:06:07hey welcome to the frat party you know
0:06:09have you met Mohamed and I man and so so
0:06:16and so you get back to this thing and
0:06:18eventually your phone stops working
0:06:20computer stops working and you
0:06:23resignedly pay for the thick just that
0:06:27you just pay for the hope that it will
0:06:28animals that a bigger cloud will get you
0:06:32back in the game
0:06:33uh-huh and i just cannot i just i see
0:06:36that he'll and it's you know it's funny
0:06:38like eels are unpleasant-looking but
0:06:40this girl has a kind of like cheeky
0:06:43smile he just wants to attach himself
0:06:45this Remora wants to attach himself to
0:06:47my neck vein
0:06:49for some reason it reminds me a little
0:06:51bit of I'm not the one of the best
0:06:53example of this is but it's like how
0:06:55they put ATMs in casinos you know where
0:07:00you can go and you can get like special
0:07:02ATMs because in addition to being very
0:07:03costly ATMs you can get like cash
0:07:05advances and stuff like that and you
0:07:08know when you're in the heaviness of
0:07:10gambling it's not like you're making a
0:07:14note of every 100 or 200 or 500 dollars
0:07:17that you're taking out you know what I
0:07:18mean it isn't you're not really keeping
0:07:20track of that but it feels like it feels
0:07:22sustaining to be able to keep gambling
0:07:24i'm not much of a gambler but I've seen
0:07:26it and that's the thing here with you
0:07:28with the eels that you're describing is
0:07:29that is a solution is presented in the
0:07:32form vanille just just agree to attach
0:07:35this to somewhere anywhere anyway it's
0:07:37convenient for you where you can get
0:07:38blood and we're pretty sure everything
0:07:40will be fine
0:07:41do you know what I have a lot of blood
0:07:43now I'm carrying an eel and still not
0:07:45working with almost no problem at all
0:07:46was given another he'll there's another
0:07:48ill but the thing is these eagles are
0:07:50small they're losing people the
0:07:53listeners imagining and yelling
0:07:54fantastical feel like something
0:07:57something like like a Grimm brothers
0:07:58heal because these are not didn't know
0:08:00this is more like more like
0:08:01nightcrawlers yeah just little guys
0:08:03there little heels and and the thing you
0:08:05know they're like I would like I
0:08:07hesitate to call them leeches because
0:08:09leeches have an ugly it's only were
0:08:11really pejorative from a different time
0:08:13term that's right but and I think they
0:08:15are more properly Remora but uh but yeah
0:08:21it's it my resistance to it is not to
0:08:23any one particular seal it is to the
0:08:27idea of having heels on me and if you
0:08:31put one even if you make them thinner
0:08:33and have the battery last longer and
0:08:34steal even if that he looks like
0:08:37something out of a kind of a like a like
0:08:3917 deleted minutes from 2001 a Space
0:08:43Odyssey even if it is a Kubrick and
0:08:46he'll I do not want it on me and I think
0:08:51this stems from a time when I was on
0:08:53outward bound and we we had been
0:08:57paddling our canoes for several weeks
0:09:00in that in the boundary waters canoe
0:09:02area of northern Minnesota and southern
0:09:05canada ontario I think and we hate each
0:09:12other
0:09:13everyone everyone on that trip I was put
0:09:16into a group of much bigger boys older
0:09:19boys who were all sent there by their
0:09:22very the their various like juvenile
0:09:27detention facilities in their respective
0:09:29towns outward-bound can be a form of
0:09:31cutting trail right it can be a place
0:09:33for some people get straightened out
0:09:34yeah and there were there were lots of
0:09:36people like there were lots of groups in
0:09:38my when I arrived at our bound you know
0:09:41there are hundreds of kids there and
0:09:42they all are separated into different
0:09:44kind of candy who different squads and
0:09:49there were squads that were coed where
0:09:52where they were we would we would
0:09:54sometimes encounter them you know when
0:09:56you're when you're out in the it in the
0:09:59Boundary Waters area there are some
0:10:00chokepoints kind of where the where one
0:10:02Lake feeds into another and even if
0:10:04you're out there for three weeks like
0:10:06you're going to run into some other
0:10:07people just because he you know there's
0:10:10these waterfalls or whatever and we
0:10:13would encounter these other groups and
0:10:15they were they were like they would
0:10:16canoe by a singing like they were
0:10:19singing their song or whatever boys and
0:10:22girls like a out camping and learning
0:10:26skills and that sounds like summer camp
0:10:28yeah and my group were all they were
0:10:32like we were 12 12 us maybe 10 total
0:10:38bullies and felons kids with like knives
0:10:42in their boots and then me and they put
0:10:46me in that group because i was big-sized
0:10:50and also because i think i was sent my
0:10:53folks set that me there to straighten me
0:10:56out but I was not like compared to the
0:11:01kid from Baltimore like the degree to
0:11:05which I was on the wrong path in life
0:11:08was not anywhere close to the you know I
0:11:12was not living in a world
0:11:13where I was smoking cigarettes throwing
0:11:15knives and holding other kids heads
0:11:19under the water right I was just I was
0:11:21just sulking and sulking at least in and
0:11:27me in my culture was like as bad as as
0:11:30as being a violent teen perpetrator so
0:11:34it was more like you are a pain in the
0:11:36ass on the wrong path rather than
0:11:38actually dangerous
0:11:39yeah i was a pain in the ass and so they
0:11:41sent me to this and I don't know what
0:11:42box they checked where they were like
0:11:44you know send him send him with the
0:11:47group that that is like a basically
0:11:52penal but i was i was in the airport in
0:11:56duluth minnesota and a kid that ended up
0:12:00being in my squad sat down next to me
0:12:04and he was there with a corrections
0:12:06officer who was escorting him to our
0:12:11bound and I was like you know I read too
0:12:16many Archie comics or something you know
0:12:17that was that was my crime but uh but
0:12:21anyway so we had several weeks in or
0:12:24however many weeks in at right at the
0:12:26point where we were living on brown
0:12:28sugar and butter because all the other
0:12:29kids had all the bigger kids had stolen
0:12:31all the food we arrived at a little tiny
0:12:35we were there canoeing through this
0:12:37slow-moving river and the river had a
0:12:42drop like a like a 10 foot waterfall and
0:12:46we we saw in time we can pull their
0:12:48canoes over to the side and portage them
0:12:49around and then it was incredibly hot
0:12:53and humid and he was this beautiful
0:12:54little waterfall kind of undiscovered
0:12:56waterfall out in the middle of Canada
0:12:59and we took off our clothes and jumped
0:13:02in it was like one of those few moments
0:13:05on this whole long trip where there was
0:13:08any feeling of camaraderie no one was
0:13:10trying to kill anyone else it was like
0:13:13everybody was so happy to have found
0:13:15this little place and you can you could
0:13:17duck under the waterfall and and pop up
0:13:19and breathe and their little there's a
0:13:21little bubble there and it was just like
0:13:23a perfect
0:13:24moment one of the like three times on
0:13:28that whole trip where I didn't fear for
0:13:30my life and then the first kid gets out
0:13:32of the pond and the rest of us who are
0:13:36in the water can see that he is covered
0:13:38with leeches leeches that are the size
0:13:42of coke bottles of god and he doesn't
0:13:46see it because he's just climbing out
0:13:47and like and we're all like oh you know
0:13:49like oh no and then also oh shit they're
0:13:52those leeches are all over us too and so
0:13:56we you know we all climbed out of there
0:13:59and had to head to it in that feeling in
0:14:03that state of complete panic figure out
0:14:07how to get the leeches off you know with
0:14:10somebody had to go find a lighter and
0:14:12and go through this whole terrible
0:14:15process and you know they were inside of
0:14:16our shorts and and so I have this leech
0:14:21this terrible each memory where every
0:14:26time my phone offers me an opportunity
0:14:29to make my cloud bigger I feel like
0:14:33there are leeches in my shorts and I
0:14:37can't get it right you get triggered I
0:14:40can never that's exactly right i can
0:14:41never shake that feeling and then all of
0:14:43a sudden I'm right back like sleeping in
0:14:45a tent with a kid that's trying to kill
0:14:46me and it's it spits I mean I wouldn't
0:14:51call it PTSD but it is a I do have some
0:14:54strong feelings
0:14:55uh-huh that's a hell of a story
0:14:58well that's a horrible or and while you
0:15:01were talking about just looking at was
0:15:02just wondering like it is in order for
0:15:04our bound to work it has to be hard or
0:15:06different be difficult on some level
0:15:08maybe not in the way that you're
0:15:10describing but like I'm just wondering
0:15:11like how often people just get injured
0:15:13or died doing it just seems like there
0:15:14must be horrible injuries whether or not
0:15:16it's from a felon with a knife in his
0:15:17boot it seems like people must die doing
0:15:19outbound it's very it can be very hard
0:15:22but i think that you know I think what
0:15:24ends up happening is you get really
0:15:25qualified guides and counselors and
0:15:30about but there's a lot of variation
0:15:33there right and so
0:15:35so in our case our two guides were when
0:15:39you at first at first blush you think
0:15:42like you know wow we we got the we got
0:15:45the we lucked out here because Mike our
0:15:48guide had hair down the middle of his
0:15:50back a long beard and his co guide was a
0:15:53woman that was like really strong and
0:15:56and and had a actually had a flattop
0:16:01haircut and this is 1983 I mean it was
0:16:04well it was really hard
0:16:06they were really hardcore outdoor
0:16:08superstars who could live off of moss
0:16:14and you know had that basically lived
0:16:17out out of doors for a long long time
0:16:20and we're very very capable but what
0:16:23they were not was youth guidance
0:16:27counselors or violence counselors and so
0:16:32their attitudes about all of the
0:16:34interpersonal shit going on between the
0:16:36kids was just like I mean they had no
0:16:40way to really they they did not counsel
0:16:46us and they had no way to impose
0:16:47discipline so they would say alright
0:16:49everybody you know here we are like
0:16:51unpack your tents and set them up and
0:16:54let's get a fire going and and start
0:16:56cooking dinner and like four kids would
0:16:58be like no fuck you and you can't you
0:17:02can't like you know sent to detention
0:17:04yeah right i mean we're already out
0:17:06where all right you can't exclude them
0:17:09from the group at that point you can't
0:17:10refuse to feed them and so because and
0:17:13the thing is they that at a certain
0:17:16point we got far enough out that none of
0:17:18these kids could escape just because if
0:17:21they left the group they would die in
0:17:23the wilderness so we were that we were
0:17:25we were bound together but that that
0:17:30tipping point where that I think that
0:17:34our bound works toward where you feel
0:17:37that we're that-that-that-that back
0:17:44a binding starts to feel like a family
0:17:49or something like you are live here
0:17:51really depending on one another and that
0:17:53that interdependence becomes a thing
0:17:56that you treasure and and that just
0:17:58never took root it was weeks and weeks
0:18:03of like these kids just just petulant
0:18:09and stealing and refusing and fighting
0:18:13and I and I was such a nerd that I that
0:18:17I really wanted to have the
0:18:19transformative experience right i'd read
0:18:21the literature i was like i'm gonna come
0:18:23out of this you know this is going to be
0:18:25the thing that makes me man you know
0:18:27even even as I was saying like I hate I
0:18:30hate my parents and being forced to do
0:18:32this there was that other side of me
0:18:34that was like I'm ready to embrace the
0:18:38transformative experience i'm ready to
0:18:40survive be a survivalist and and you
0:18:44know at every turn I was just sort of
0:18:47pushed because i was younger than they
0:18:49were I was this I was big but I was I
0:18:51was two years younger than every other
0:18:53kit and they just push my face in the
0:18:55dirt and just you know take my food out
0:18:59of my hand and and to dare me to do
0:19:03something about it
0:19:04I sense and how Halloween along route
0:19:06there Oh weeks and weeks i mean really
0:19:08you know is an intensive program and i
0:19:12think that i think the guidance
0:19:14counselors were our counselors I mean
0:19:16our guides were trying to that you know
0:19:22they were operating on the assumption
0:19:23that that this couldn't last forever
0:19:25eventually this Lord of the Flies stuff
0:19:27would would would mutate into brotherly
0:19:33love but it never did and I don't know
0:19:38if we were still out there together
0:19:3920-30 years later whether there would
0:19:43have ever been you know I think I think
0:19:46that was a classic group of kids that
0:19:48left to their own devices would have
0:19:51starved to death and died of exposure
0:19:53rather than ever
0:19:56band together to do something you know
0:19:58they wouldn't ya willing and willfully
0:20:01done it
0:20:02that's what makes you think that the
0:20:03kind of guides that they have are
0:20:06obviously they have to experience with
0:20:07you know a variety of challenges and all
0:20:11being outdoors for a long time you know
0:20:12outdoorsy people like it really seems
0:20:15like a irresponsible to have people who
0:20:18are able to almost like a drill team
0:20:21drill drill sergeant type but somebody
0:20:23who really knows how to get inside the
0:20:24head
0:20:25I mean just just because it really only
0:20:27takes one person going off the off the
0:20:30rails out there to really in danger a
0:20:31lot of people
0:20:32yeah it seems like not intervening at me
0:20:35know it sounds like that wasn't a
0:20:37strategy
0:20:38it was just like that's what they were
0:20:40capable of yeah exactly and that was the
0:20:42that was the thing when I when we saw
0:20:45that other group of of kids
0:20:49paddle paddle your paddle past us at a
0:20:54at an intersection of two lakes you know
0:20:56and they were headed this way and we
0:20:58were headed that way and they were
0:20:59singing at up until that point I had I
0:21:05felt like through those weeks that this
0:21:09was the experience that everyone was
0:21:10having and so this must be what outward
0:21:14bound is and this must be what they must
0:21:17do this on purpose and you come out the
0:21:19other side and it's like you went to
0:21:22it's like you want to like here at Camp
0:21:25your camp northstar anything like all
0:21:28the all the rich kids are over there
0:21:29Yeah right right i mean you know I felt
0:21:32like it it's like going to it's like
0:21:36going to jail except there are also
0:21:38mosquito bites but then they should be
0:21:41they should put that right on the
0:21:42brochure but then these other kids were
0:21:44having so much fun I realized that this
0:21:46wasn't the experience of of all of
0:21:49everybody that was doing this it was
0:21:50just what was happening to us and that
0:21:54was the thing that made me you know that
0:21:56was maybe my first experience with that
0:22:00feeling of like I still have 11 more
0:22:04days that I have to survive
0:22:06and I don't I cannot look 11 days into
0:22:13the future because I will I'll panic and
0:22:16a and i'll be paralyzed i have to just
0:22:20you know do what I'm doing right now
0:22:23get get to the end of today make it
0:22:26asleep and then you know tomorrow is a
0:22:29new day but that that sense of like I
0:22:32mean when you're 13 11 days might as
0:22:37well be a million days over and that you
0:22:40know and when i was when i was walking
0:22:42across Europe obviously I had a much
0:22:45bigger problem of like I still have
0:22:49three and a half months of this to do
0:22:51and uh huh so I just have to keep my you
0:22:56know keep my head down and put one foot
0:22:58in front of the other make that walk and
0:23:01so many of your other like self-imposed
0:23:02survival games seem it i had not heard
0:23:07you're our bound story so that I look at
0:23:09those things in a new way now because
0:23:11like you knew what it was like to be out
0:23:13there feeling desperate you put yourself
0:23:16in that situation many times after that
0:23:18yeah and I wonder whether or not that
0:23:21outward bound thing kind of set it cast
0:23:25the die a little bit and if i had if I'd
0:23:31gone to that and it had a a merry old
0:23:35time whether i'd have a different
0:23:37relationship to the sort of the
0:23:41survivalist um adventures that I play uh
0:23:46huh you know I don't I honestly don't
0:23:48know and the thing is like it you know i
0:23:49mean people who've been to our bound
0:23:52no one it's not like we sit and and and
0:23:57having counter sessions about our
0:23:59experience but i think a lot of people
0:24:00have wonderful experiences that outward
0:24:02bound and and so and you know obviously
0:24:08that was that was decades ago when i
0:24:10went so and and i and i still am glad
0:24:13that I experienced it but it was
0:24:18you know it was an example of of like
0:24:24what happens when you put your kid
0:24:29what would he try to you try to modify
0:24:31your kid by putting them through a very
0:24:34grueling experience rather than modify
0:24:37your kid rather than a not trying to
0:24:39modify your kid or be modify your kid by
0:24:42putting them in a like a panic trying to
0:24:47find a place where they can bloom that's
0:24:49that's what we actually went really
0:24:51thinking about right now is that down
0:24:53you know even as young as our kids are I
0:24:57I feel like we can probably both awesome
0:24:58holiday I'll speak for myself I can
0:25:00really see how you know what matters is
0:25:03the accumulation of what happened every
0:25:05day what happened yesterday what
0:25:07happened yesterday what happened like it
0:25:08that it's it's not so different from
0:25:10this from like the difference between
0:25:12like when did somebody get addicted to
0:25:14cigarettes was the first time i heard
0:25:15about cigarettes now was it the first
0:25:17cigarette they had probably not maybe
0:25:19with crack but not so much with smoking
0:25:21was it after the first pack now
0:25:23it was sometime between the first back
0:25:24in the day they died they got addicted
0:25:26and it's very difficult to pick out one
0:25:27day but you can you know at some point
0:25:30you can definitely say it's gonna be
0:25:31harder than not at this point to stop
0:25:33smoking just as one example and you know
0:25:36what sending somebody I don't know we're
0:25:38bound make that go away possibly it's
0:25:40just that we are the accumulation of so
0:25:42many little micro experiences micro
0:25:44decisions are you know little tiny
0:25:46things and it's I get some reason i
0:25:48mention here is I wonder you know it's
0:25:51it's kind of amazing anything ever works
0:25:53for something like that because you take
0:25:55somebody who's like could not be any way
0:25:58other than how they are in some ways
0:26:00good or bad I mean it's nice to think
0:26:02like oh yeah you have raised a good kid
0:26:04or this is a good person or you know
0:26:05this is the straight a kid or whatever
0:26:07but the thing is you are whatever you
0:26:08are and you so are whatever you are and
0:26:11it's amazing to think that any kind of
0:26:13cold water therapy like that works out
0:26:17at all unless it's really tuned to like
0:26:20for example you know i guess i can think
0:26:22of some kind of like I don't feel good
0:26:25TV show idea of like a kid who's
0:26:26actually very independent some kind of
0:26:28Captain Kirk character who's having
0:26:29trouble fitting in
0:26:30school and discovers they have
0:26:32leadership skills wants to put to a
0:26:33challenge
0:26:34yeah but I mean how do you know what's
0:26:36gonna be right for somebody how do you
0:26:37know whether that's just gonna make them
0:26:39horribly bitter and cover with leeches
0:26:41yeah yeah well and I think that our
0:26:44bound what did talk a lot about a
0:26:46leadership but I was 13 in a group of 15
0:26:50year olds and I was never going to be
0:26:52accepted as a leader by them and when I
0:26:55would you know what i would say like a
0:26:56everybody can't we just like stopped
0:26:58fighting for a minute and try and get
0:26:59this fire built up what that would do is
0:27:03it would turn their attention back to me
0:27:05for just long enough for everybody to
0:27:10agree that the thing to do right now is
0:27:11to throw rocks at John like whatever
0:27:13their other fighting was you know if i
0:27:15am going to set that aside to just pass
0:27:18on you
0:27:18yeah they would all band together to
0:27:19destroy somebody if that person stuck
0:27:24their head up like there was a Jewish
0:27:25kid from salt lake city and like the
0:27:30first hour of the first day the other
0:27:33kids agreed that his name was bagel you
0:27:35know and but he was also from salt lake
0:27:39so that confused them a lot but like you
0:27:44know imagine imagine being called bagel
0:27:47for a month and he was you know he was
0:27:53sent there for some kind of juvenile a
0:27:55reformation to but he he wasn't violent
0:28:01but the thing was he knew that he
0:28:04couldn't really align himself with me
0:28:06either because if he applied himself
0:28:08with me like I was the one I was the
0:28:11weakest so he needed to when when the
0:28:14time came to that they were dumping on
0:28:17me he needed to join in that to ya I
0:28:20mean it sounds like basic seventh-grade
0:28:22kind of stuff yeah right and that
0:28:24because all he was hoping was that they
0:28:25wouldn't turn their attention on him so
0:28:28i mean the the and and i look at it when
0:28:33I when I you know I spent a lot of time
0:28:34looking at the criminal justice system
0:28:36and the I this cold water therapy thing
0:28:39where you bust some kid for selling pot
0:28:44and instead of slapping his hand and
0:28:48send him home to his mother because he's
0:28:50a black kid you put him in jail we put
0:28:53him in juvenile detention and then it
0:28:56gets out and his next crime is just that
0:28:59he didn't show up for his meeting right
0:29:03and so then that's a different kind of
0:29:05each yeah then like people have to pay
0:29:07them all those fines and all those fees
0:29:09for things those are just leeches
0:29:10ligious that's right and so then you can
0:29:13eat then he gets a fine because he
0:29:15didn't show up for his meeting and then
0:29:16he doesn't pay the fine and then it's
0:29:17you know that's a serious problem
0:29:21because now he's defaulting and so
0:29:23that's another charge and pretty soon
0:29:25you get somebody who never did anything
0:29:29you know their initial crime was just I
0:29:31mean when I think about the number of
0:29:33people in the United States right now
0:29:34who are in jail for pot yeah and we are
0:29:38on the verge of legalizing pot
0:29:41nationwide it's certainly legal here
0:29:44there are there are people standing in
0:29:47front of the jail smoking legal pot
0:29:50while people inside the jail who were
0:29:53sent to jail for pot look out the
0:29:55windows at them and you know and like
0:30:00went to jail for pot and then when they
0:30:03got out failed to report to their parole
0:30:06officer and went to jail for a parole
0:30:07violation and you know in the end up in
0:30:10jail in jail in jail in jail and they
0:30:12get out of jail and they can't find a
0:30:13job because they have a jail record and
0:30:17all for nothing and it's and it's and
0:30:20it's based on this idea that like
0:30:23sending somebody to jail is going to see
0:30:25that first time is going to straighten
0:30:27him up and it's such a faulty notion
0:30:32that's based in in the Calvinists that
0:30:38in that strange Calvinism thats that's
0:30:41buried a hundred feet deep in the
0:30:44American psyche largely largely
0:30:46unexamined place-- yeah but there's but
0:30:48the the weekend all again she's right
0:30:50that there is this that they're weak i
0:30:52think we can all agree that this person
0:30:54has some kind of ill humors
0:30:56that need to be worked out of them right
0:30:59yeah we need to dump them in the pond it
0:31:02its it's virtually is virtually medieval
0:31:04yeah but any time somebody tries to
0:31:06solve any of these problems once he's
0:31:07like hearing you say that somebody sick
0:31:09to my stomach just when you talk about
0:31:10this like it's it's so gross thing i'm
0:31:12on someone public radio the other day
0:31:15about everybody everybody for years now
0:31:17everybody's always and homelessness all
0:31:18this is easy problem just go you just
0:31:20gotta build shelters like you're being a
0:31:22homeless shelter like it's not a great
0:31:24place to be
0:31:24oh you just gotta do this you just gotta
0:31:26do that sometimes comes along try to
0:31:27come up with something really novel like
0:31:29you're talking about the thing while
0:31:30back about like actually setting people
0:31:32up and giving them a house and place to
0:31:33live you know and that actually helps
0:31:35the homeless problem because now they're
0:31:36not homeless anymore
0:31:37really wait a minute that's cheating
0:31:39like you can actually help them you know
0:31:41but this this piece was about just you
0:31:43know I it's so fascinating and so as I
0:31:45say so so like stomach-churning we get
0:31:47into the implementation details are
0:31:49trying to fix this because you know
0:31:51people here joking about how much poop
0:31:53through is on the streets here and you
0:31:55said this in in that article that
0:31:56interview with you like nobody poops on
0:31:58the street because they want to they do
0:31:59it because there's nowhere else to go
0:32:00and it's not these people are they they
0:32:02may have mental health issues but
0:32:03they're not crazy
0:32:04I'll give you that and so in this case
0:32:06we're talking about how do you deal with
0:32:07like this one of the single biggest
0:32:09problems that people who are homeless or
0:32:10on the edge have is like what to do with
0:32:12their stuff when they're doing something
0:32:13else like if you like if you want to try
0:32:16and get a job like where you get close
0:32:18where do you get a shower and how do you
0:32:19have your five shopping carts be looked
0:32:21after like while you're trying to get a
0:32:23job it's virtually impossible and people
0:32:25don't really think about that
0:32:26implementation detail it's so mundane
0:32:28and so extremely sad that you don't kind
0:32:31of want to think about it too much but
0:32:33like that's that's that's daily life
0:32:34daily life for them is I have this is
0:32:36everything that I have in the entire
0:32:37world and it looks like it looks like
0:32:39junk to you about this is what i have
0:32:40and like you know what are the steps
0:32:43between here and like now I'm providing
0:32:46for myself in this you know studio
0:32:48apartment right so many steps
0:32:50well you just think about the number of
0:32:51times that i have uh I have prioritized
0:32:56that straightening out my file of
0:33:01envelopes
0:33:03right like I have a I have a and I have
0:33:05an enormous closet that's not an
0:33:07enormous closet but it is a closet that
0:33:09is full of stationary now you find good
0:33:13vintage envelopes or good ventilation
0:33:15air you gotta put it somewhere
0:33:17vintage envelopes a 90 I am so my
0:33:19listeners think I'm kidding I'm not
0:33:20kidding colored colored typing paper
0:33:23really nice folders back when these to
0:33:25make good folders utiful folders heavy
0:33:27heavy bond hard stock yet and and then
0:33:31all of the sort of like vintage
0:33:33postcards and stuff all unused and all
0:33:36and I'm stockpiling it in the in the
0:33:42hope that i will one day return to males
0:33:45correspondence that i will one day
0:33:48sit down with my cursive typewriter your
0:33:51hand here in a pistol Larry survivalist
0:33:53and write a heartfelt letters on scented
0:33:56stationery that is you know from 19th
0:33:58century france and mail these things but
0:34:02you know I have all this stuff and
0:34:04what's funny is that the the time I
0:34:07don't it's not like i have recently
0:34:08spent any time organizing it but i have
0:34:10spent time with this material it gives
0:34:13me good great pleasure but i have
0:34:16prioritized that over other things like
0:34:19I need to go straighten out my
0:34:21stationery right now instead of work on
0:34:25my book or my new album or get some
0:34:29exercise right you know and so I'm very
0:34:31aware of a major problem i think that
0:34:37that that we that we never really think
0:34:40about which is that one of the one of
0:34:44the primary problems that people with
0:34:45mental health issues have is
0:34:47prioritization and I'm incredibly
0:34:51sympathetic to the to the idea or to the
0:34:54just the the knowledge that so often you
0:34:57say listen you need to secure these
0:34:59necessities before you worry about your
0:35:02five shopping carts full of you know
0:35:06taco bell cups and the and the person is
0:35:10like I am resisting what you're saying
0:35:12like you have no idea how important
0:35:14these shopping carts full of talk
0:35:16Bell cups are and that I mean that
0:35:20little switch is something that I
0:35:22experienced all the time personally but
0:35:24I'm on the other side of offense but I
0:35:28could see myself very easily suffering a
0:35:33series of of defeats and just not being
0:35:36able to just practice uh-huh kind of
0:35:40understanding of like the next step I
0:35:44mean the next step is so is for some
0:35:47people always so clear and for me is
0:35:49always so ya covered with vines right
0:35:54the next step is just it's just a ball
0:35:56of lines but the the you know more
0:36:00importantly like that I a dark or in our
0:36:04culture in particular you can always as
0:36:07you as you start trying to treat
0:36:08homelessness we start trying to address
0:36:11the criminal justice system or you know
0:36:13anyone to be you start dealing with
0:36:15income inequality you always push down
0:36:18push down and you get to a certain level
0:36:20of certain a certain tipping point with
0:36:24almost anybody you talk to where you
0:36:27arrive at the moment where they feel
0:36:28like wait a minute now that's not fair
0:36:32like that person has not done anything
0:36:35to deserve food and shelter
0:36:39yeah it's a Kobayashi Maru it's like you
0:36:41you with this is this the way this game
0:36:44it works is not in the way that it seems
0:36:47and if you actually do the steps they're
0:36:49needed to win this game you will by
0:36:50definition be cheating cheating right
0:36:53yeah right because because there's
0:36:55someone over here who is working hard
0:36:57and they are barely making it because
0:37:01it's meritocracy and that's right so
0:37:04this person is working hard and they're
0:37:06barely making it look at that you go
0:37:07right that is not i mean that is unfair
0:37:10but that person is really working hard
0:37:12and then you talk about providing an
0:37:15apartment for a homeless person and
0:37:17three squares a day which is what this
0:37:21other person who's working hard is
0:37:23barely achieving for themselves and you
0:37:26just go well you can't just give that
0:37:27away to somebody
0:37:28that wouldn't be fair and that's the
0:37:32point at which you can say well then
0:37:36that person goes and lives in the bushes
0:37:38because that's what they deserve and
0:37:40addressing that cognitive struggle in
0:37:48our culture is like so hard because you
0:37:51don't eat no one's really aware where
0:37:54it's coming from where that lesson
0:37:56originates that if you don't work if you
0:38:01don't try then then ultimately like you
0:38:06deserve to die
0:38:07you deserve to be pushed out of the
0:38:08village and wander the desert and uh you
0:38:17know in the end the the standard for
0:38:20even being able to stay in in the game
0:38:23at the lowest level now is so much
0:38:25higher than it's ever been
0:38:26oh god yes you can't live in the city
0:38:28unless you are really really working
0:38:32hard
0:38:33John we have we are you know Oh to every
0:38:36couple months comic meet up and I really
0:38:38really nice guy and and is a girlfriend
0:38:41came there just get ready to move here
0:38:43from Atlanta and is so funny i feel like
0:38:46had this conversation with people so
0:38:47often where I I i want all the words
0:38:51that come out of my mouth to be welcome
0:38:52i really hope you enjoy here uh and I I
0:38:56in my head I'm forming those words and I
0:38:58want this to be the words that come out
0:38:59but instead all that comes out is it
0:39:01like a series of size and like I was
0:39:05like oh I have helped you like the movie
0:39:07is the worst attempt to not it's
0:39:10terrible
0:39:11don't come here it's bad it's really bad
0:39:14if you don't think it's bad
0:39:16you're the problem but if you don't
0:39:18think this town is it's like living
0:39:20inside of a godspeed you black emperor
0:39:22song like it is disintegrating around us
0:39:25and if you don't see that like it's
0:39:27totally snowpiercer like you are in a
0:39:29much you're a different part of the
0:39:31mother fucking train if you do not see
0:39:33the shitstorm that everybody in this
0:39:35town is living through
0:39:36but don't want that to come out as
0:39:38congratulations on the move i hope the
0:39:40job works out for you uh-huh
0:39:43but but instead that that's that's how
0:39:45it comes out because you know it's so
0:39:47strange to me and I didn't get that I'm
0:39:49not gonna be that guy but here's the
0:39:50thing like twitter has this really nice
0:39:52building in a part of town that is now
0:39:54kind of like once want to kind of fancy
0:39:56up because it's where twitter is and
0:39:58stuff but it's so strange that you know
0:40:00you've been to like too long you know
0:40:01that area like around six the market
0:40:03like you know between kind of the civic
0:40:06center like you know west of civic
0:40:08center but it's it's pretty bad it's
0:40:11pretty gross and it's just it's so
0:40:13strange to me that that some of the
0:40:14folks who are the most fortunate like
0:40:16are walking straight past some of the
0:40:18greediest stuff i don't have to go there
0:40:20very often i had to be there a couple
0:40:21weeks ago for something for an event and
0:40:23i was i was shocked like walking out of
0:40:25the civic center bart and walking up it
0:40:28was like okay this is this is really is
0:40:30like something from a science-fiction
0:40:31dystopia it's so gross and so desperate
0:40:34and anyway welcome my friend from
0:40:38Atlanta
0:40:38i I uh I hope I hope this gradual asians
0:40:42okay you know i mean every dystopian
0:40:47movie there is like a clear separation
0:40:52between the haves and the have-nots like
0:40:55there there's always a metaphorical wall
0:40:58right there is always a train that you
0:41:00have to make it through several armored
0:41:02doors to get to the front and left to
0:41:06right back to front
0:41:07what's amazing about San Francisco and
0:41:11Seattle is that if there's no I mean
0:41:15there are walls obviously like people
0:41:17retreat behind walls but I in the in the
0:41:20main complex of the city
0:41:22the walls are all in people's minds you
0:41:25know you come down it when in your in
0:41:27your skinny pants and you go across the
0:41:33street to get a al $11 coffee beverage
0:41:37that was pooped out of a monkey's butt
0:41:40and and you make it back across the
0:41:45street and back into the lobby and up
0:41:47and you just did not see the
0:41:49like the economic carnage that you had
0:41:54to literally step over to get to get the
0:41:57monkey poop coffee right so I mean I
0:42:01yeah I sympathize with with the young
0:42:07rich people who are embracing a radical
0:42:10ideology you know there are a lot of
0:42:12young there are a lot of millennial kids
0:42:15with a lot of opportunity who are
0:42:20channeling that frustration into into
0:42:22ideologies they're not the most
0:42:26self-reflective people either but it
0:42:29really does feel like some something is
0:42:32something's got to happen and I don't
0:42:36want it to be something something's
0:42:37gonna happen i don't want to be a
0:42:39violent revolution like that doesn't
0:42:41interest me and I don't think that's a
0:42:44very good solution i think historically
0:42:45just in the last 200 years we can look
0:42:48back at all the violent revolutions and
0:42:50it does it's not too hard to say that
0:42:55Martin Luther King and Gandhi had and
0:43:00Mother Teresa had much better long-term
0:43:04results from the way that from their
0:43:07practice then the revolutions of 1917 or
0:43:131848 or even 1968 so i want to i want i
0:43:24want everybody to hear and see and get
0:43:27engaged and start making a difference
0:43:29but boy speaking as somebody who is
0:43:33trying to do that it's not it is not
0:43:36easy because it like you say those walls
0:43:38those walls are there even if they're
0:43:41not there we can mentally make those
0:43:43walls its issues you know it's so weird
0:43:45me one for me personally maybe one
0:43:47barometer of how good I feel about the
0:43:48culture is is how much I'm constantly
0:43:50reminded of the movie Brazil
0:43:52and I'm thinking a lot about Brazil
0:43:55lately and in this case now I'm thinking
0:43:56of that wonderful city wonderful
0:43:58horrible scene with her at the
0:43:59restaurant say that number in there and
0:44:02in the restaurant and a bomb goes off
0:44:03and people are bleeding and dying and
0:44:05and so that of course then all the way
0:44:07to rush around to bring up like folding
0:44:09screen so people don't wanna see the
0:44:11victims while they're still eating the
0:44:14other thing with the oskins keeps coming
0:44:16to me in a dream
0:44:17oh my God he's so great i right i
0:44:20referenced Brazil to somebody the other
0:44:21day in a political conversation and I
0:44:23was just created by blank stares this
0:44:25area have we really are always so are we
0:44:27so far
0:44:29oh my god i just brazil was the language
0:44:31that movie is so relevant today that its
0:44:35kind of appalling that was that relevant
0:44:37in 1986 or whatever it was it's it seems
0:44:40impossible that movie has is just seems
0:44:43to make more sense all the time not just
0:44:45the bureaucracy but just the
0:44:47ineffectiveness the the ineffectiveness
0:44:48and a callous and uh he said i'm martin
0:44:54luther king i write something down
0:44:55together has been a last week was kind
0:44:57of a big week for America and the one of
0:44:59the quotes people kept tossing out great
0:45:01quote from martin luther king at the arc
0:45:03of the moral universe is long but it
0:45:04bends towards justice
0:45:05yeah I i use that quote a lot and and
0:45:08the response over the last several years
0:45:10from people on the left has been really
0:45:14do you really think that's true
0:45:16like there's been so much cynicism right
0:45:19because you have you have a very
0:45:20optimistic approach this is saying that
0:45:22like in the case of seattle for folks
0:45:24who don't know you say you said over and
0:45:26over we're on the brink of something
0:45:26really amazing happening in seattle and
0:45:28why can't everyone see that things are
0:45:31getting better we have a liberal utopian
0:45:33some ways now we have to get the
0:45:34implementation details right right and
0:45:36and you know and ultimately like I'm a
0:45:38historian or I have a historians view of
0:45:42things and so if you look at the if you
0:45:45look at that arc in historical contexts
0:45:49really in any one you want to choose its
0:45:53it's absolutely true
0:45:55it bends toward justice and so that
0:45:59cynicism is just from people that are
0:46:01that can only see five years
0:46:04on either side or the don't think that
0:46:06way at all
0:46:08um and are only responding to how
0:46:10they're feeling right now or 216
0:46:12politically expedient to say but yes of
0:46:15course we're making progress everything
0:46:17we've ever done as human beings has been
0:46:19a progression towards something that we
0:46:23never talked about or try to define and
0:46:27you know there are a lot of people who
0:46:29believe that that progression is is a a
0:46:35kingdom after death or that progression
0:46:39is to like have to personally ascend or
0:46:48to climb through reincarnation a ladder
0:46:52of enlightenment or you know there are
0:46:53all these ideas about what happens to
0:46:57you but we never talk about what we're
0:47:01doing what happens to us and what we've
0:47:04been through as as a written as a
0:47:06species and the progression we've made
0:47:11and I mean we see we see that the d the
0:47:15destruction we have wrought and we can
0:47:19look at ourselves as a kind of vermin or
0:47:22plague on the earth that has gradually
0:47:25sort of you know just as just as any
0:47:28kind of parasite you know at first you
0:47:33don't notice it and then pretty soon
0:47:34there's some discoloration on your arm
0:47:37and then pretty soon it's you know you
0:47:39can really see the destruction and your
0:47:41hair falls out you know that's kinda if
0:47:44you did a time-lapse of the earth over
0:47:46the last 50,000 years like human beings
0:47:49have been here a long time and you did
0:47:51we wouldn't have noticed them but is
0:47:53just recently who we've reached the
0:47:56level of like parasitic overpopulation
0:48:01where the where we're starting to kill
0:48:04the host but at the same time we have
0:48:07like done so such incredible things and
0:48:11have built such an incredible hive
0:48:14and have conceived of such incredible
0:48:17notions you know we invented the idea of
0:48:220 as far as we know right there's no
0:48:27zero in nature of who we invented in
0:48:31that and and and that's that's
0:48:33impressive work and so but we never said
0:48:39we never stop and say like leaving aside
0:48:42Valhalla and and heaven where you're
0:48:47reunited with your ancestors like what
0:48:49is our long-term goal how do we think
0:48:51about our goal for Humanity that what
0:48:56that will that is generations-long right
0:49:00other than just build build build right
0:49:03right
0:49:04what is our what's our long-term plan
0:49:07now and we're at we're finally at a
0:49:08place where we can where we can talk
0:49:10about this because but prior to this in
0:49:12human history it's just like fruit for
0:49:15for millennia was just like season to
0:49:17season like how to stay alive
0:49:18yeah how do we stay alive how do we beat
0:49:20back nature and and persist and then you
0:49:27know certain certain places it kind of
0:49:29morphed into like okay we don't need to
0:49:31you know my family at least says rich
0:49:34guy in 900 AD like my family's going to
0:49:38survive now now how do i consolidate
0:49:41power and money to myself so that I can
0:49:43protect my treiber you know I mean all
0:49:45these evolutions of the idea but we're
0:49:48only now this is one of these ideas
0:49:51about like the nation's power of the
0:49:52internet only now are we able to see
0:49:55through the through the broad sweep of
0:49:57time that we have the ability to start
0:49:59making plans for ourselves and our
0:50:02cities and at where we're talking you
0:50:06know this whole sustainability movement
0:50:08is is a long-term game or there's no way
0:50:13we can even know what that will look
0:50:14like if it's exceeding Yeah right right
0:50:16you'll never know but you have to make
0:50:18sacrifices and play a role in in a in an
0:50:23ultimate goal that you're just a
0:50:26you know you're just one of millions of
0:50:30participants in and yeah that's that's
0:50:35very exciting and it could be very it
0:50:38could be really uniting well yeah that's
0:50:41why I actually why I brought up that
0:50:43quote and I'm glad you said what you
0:50:45said because it is actually underscores
0:50:47what i was thinking and let me first of
0:50:49all like you when you talk about stuff
0:50:51like what we thought the internet would
0:50:51do for us you know the Internet has
0:50:56ended up being something that we mainly
0:50:58use to amplify what we think or or
0:51:02amplify you know what we want to have
0:51:04heard about ourselves and about the
0:51:05things that we care about but in talking
0:51:07about the how the more arc of the moral
0:51:10universe is long but it bends towards
0:51:12justice when you thought we were talking
0:51:13earlier about how you deal with stuff
0:51:14like homelessness for these kind of
0:51:15problems i think the attractor the
0:51:17magnet that helps pull that arc in a lot
0:51:21of ways if you look back in retrospect
0:51:22it was succeeded at so much of those
0:51:25times along the way is when we to the
0:51:28extent possible kept reducing our sense
0:51:31of who is the other if you look at
0:51:33anything that has ever gotten better
0:51:35about people it's about realizing there
0:51:37really isn't any such thing as another I
0:51:39mean we needed that other one was about
0:51:40traps right if you want to do is 900 AD
0:51:42and you want to keep your castle going
0:51:44like you had their everybody was another
0:51:46except for this group
0:51:47it's just that you know you look at
0:51:48what's happened in the past week
0:51:50think about where we were two years ago
0:51:52let alone ten years ago was thinking
0:51:55about like who's allowed to love each
0:51:56other publicly i think a big amount of
0:52:00that i'm far from the first person to
0:52:01set point this out but it helps a lot
0:52:03when you start realizing first of all
0:52:04there's a lot more of that kind of
0:52:06people that I thought isn't that
0:52:07interesting it's not really you know one
0:52:09in 10 or less it could be a lot more
0:52:11than that and it could be a lot more
0:52:12complicated than that then you also
0:52:14start to realize they're not they're not
0:52:15monsters
0:52:16maybe they deserve to be human beings in
0:52:18a way that didn't expect just by having
0:52:20respect for the fact that i've not been
0:52:21exposed to those people and I see that
0:52:24they are just people and I'm the monster
0:52:25that I think a lot of that has happened
0:52:27in the last two years on me again I'll
0:52:29speak for myself in some ways so kind of
0:52:30stuff from where I'm the real monster
0:52:32here like all these other people that I
0:52:34think are our impending on the thing
0:52:35that I'd like to announce our are not
0:52:38the problem
0:52:39the problem is i'm not paying enough
0:52:41attention to who I think is the other
0:52:43and like what kind of case they have how
0:52:44sad is that they have to even make a
0:52:46case you do what I mean I i agree that
0:52:50there that there is no other and
0:52:53ultimately i mean i remember when i was
0:52:55in high school I had a couple of good
0:52:57friends who were really conservatives
0:52:59you know high school conservatives right
0:53:03they love jack kemp he was their hero
0:53:05and they were this kind of they were
0:53:10they the Young Republicans who have a
0:53:13sort of sharp dressed and sharp-edged
0:53:16ideology and that you know that makes
0:53:20them feel very kind of superior and cool
0:53:22particularly when they can trust
0:53:25themselves against the like soft
0:53:27liberalism right soft and wasteful
0:53:30liberalism and these guys were a couple
0:53:33of my really close friends we we shared
0:53:37a we shared tastes in music and we
0:53:39shared tastes in comedy and we enjoyed
0:53:42each other's company but we just could
0:53:44not and actually we enjoyed arguing
0:53:49about politics that was a thing that
0:53:50that sort of you bound us together in a
0:53:54way but though that the way that they
0:53:57they had a quote that that they would
0:53:59use to kind of try to defeat me in
0:54:01arguments when I would start talking too
0:54:03much about collective action or
0:54:06collective thinking and I think one of
0:54:08them had seen it on a bumper sticker one
0:54:10time and they would just throw it in my
0:54:12face
0:54:14they would you know i untied be spinning
0:54:17this like story about how they're there
0:54:20was no race it was just a construct and
0:54:24we needed to you know and that's that
0:54:261986 or 95 or whatever that wasn't as
0:54:29popularly known and these guys would
0:54:32stare at me and go one planet one people
0:54:35please
0:54:37which was a bumper sticker i guess like
0:54:41a little like a liberal like the kind of
0:54:43thing you buy at the coop food store
0:54:45yeah one planet one people please
0:54:48and you know that and I would kind of
0:54:50stand there and go like yeah actually
0:54:52right i mean one planet
0:54:55you can't dispute that one people pretty
0:54:59much pretty much one people if you if
0:55:04you think about it and the please part I
0:55:09don't know what to tell you like I don't
0:55:10know what to say you would you rather it
0:55:12be one planet one people by force but
0:55:16it's also it's also getting something
0:55:18that I happen to ya I don't love feeling
0:55:21this way but agree on which is that
0:55:22liberals can be insufferable just the
0:55:25worst would be great day when our
0:55:27schools have all the money they needed
0:55:28air force has to have a big sale
0:55:30biopolymer first fall it's too fucking
0:55:32long to have a proper stick-up you need
0:55:34to edit that shit down like you can read
0:55:37it it's too small one planet when people
0:55:39please got got edited down to coexist
0:55:43with all the little symbols and the bond
0:55:45oh my god that is that is so perfect
0:55:47that is such a perfect summary of what
0:55:49is annoying about liberals the first of
0:55:50all are using all of these different
0:55:51symbols to form an English word they're
0:55:54like they're fucking with all of these
0:55:57very important symbols of different
0:56:00peoples and faiths to make an
0:56:01english-language we're going to make a
0:56:03font make it fun yeah that they can be
0:56:05put on their their suburban or whatever
0:56:07god I i showed up at my office today and
0:56:13my office manager the manager of the
0:56:16building slipped a key fob under the
0:56:22door for me the key fob being the new
0:56:26way that we're going to enter and exit
0:56:28the building what's keyless entry
0:56:30keyless entry one key fob fob and the
0:56:35key fob is is built in such a way that
0:56:39there's really no way to carry it except
0:56:42on your key ring it is a key fob it's
0:56:47that you can't slip it in your wallet he
0:56:49camps
0:56:50it's it's small enough that it would get
0:56:54lost if you didn't put it somewhere and
0:56:55so I have to put it on my keys now but
0:56:59it's made out of that that kind of party
0:57:02colored plastic that all IBM pcs are
0:57:06made out of
0:57:07yeah it's like that Universal uh
0:57:09parti-colored dingus plastic color it's
0:57:12pretty dangerous putting his fingers
0:57:14buddy thanks bye
0:57:15and and so I have this thing on my keys
0:57:20that now basically makes it look like
0:57:22Mikey's got lost and this is the tag
0:57:26that they put on them in lost and found
0:57:29it looks like a piece of evidence now or
0:57:32it looks like like I curate the look of
0:57:35my keys right I'm I'm I'm not a I'm not
0:57:40just some person with a bunch of dumb
0:57:42keys like I have a little leather flap
0:57:46that has a that's tool a little too
0:57:49leather flap on my key ring that has a
0:57:53little kitten on it for four and then I
0:57:56arrange my keys in a in the order that I
0:58:00that I prefer to find them and one of
0:58:04the keys has a little piece of red tape
0:58:05on it and one of the keys is branded
0:58:09seattle seahawks and now i have and
0:58:13they're a couple of keys that are night
0:58:14like nice classic-looking keys like old
0:58:17older keys heavy style keys that I'm
0:58:20very proud of and then i have this
0:58:22fucking biggest party
0:58:25uh-huh going on here and I know this is
0:58:27meant to make my life better
0:58:29I know I understand that it's but it's
0:58:33part of the modernization project
0:58:36yeah but it'sit's so hegemonic it's it's
0:58:40it's sort of like you know I have a
0:58:42feeling that for years now you think
0:58:45about all those dumb loyalty programs
0:58:46like you know you by nine subs and you
0:58:48get a free sub or you can have what we
0:58:50call check-cashing card if you want to
0:58:52get the discount at the grocery store
0:58:54I mean I imagine that in some way the
0:58:56technology has existed for years to do
0:58:58what most of us do now which is in our
0:58:59phone number at the thing you don't want
0:59:01to but you want to discount right but I
0:59:03think
0:59:03technology is probably existed for years
0:59:05i think the real trick to having this
0:59:06loyalty cards is having a constant
0:59:08advertisement in your wallet for this
0:59:10place that's what the way look at the
0:59:12card is because when you're doing your
0:59:14little taxonomy of keys and figuring out
0:59:15in this case what goes in your wallet
0:59:17you have to decide which one of those
0:59:18are important enough but now like right
0:59:20now is your driver's license your credit
0:59:21card a picture of your kid is a little
0:59:23thing about subs you carry around
0:59:25advertisement about subs in your wallet
0:59:27all the time which is brilliant
0:59:29if you can think about it pretty
0:59:30brilliant that they pull that off and
0:59:32that's what's happening with all these
0:59:33things these guys ago that thing I buddy
0:59:35is this means is that they want when you
0:59:38buy a fucking car now they want to carry
0:59:40this thing is the size of a large
0:59:42matchbox uh-huh but with a car the car
0:59:45we got last year I can't I like what it
0:59:47would do we really need to have a key
0:59:48this large uh-huh
0:59:50because it doesn't want to be a key it
0:59:51wants to be the nexus of keys it was
0:59:53that that's the hegemony is college
0:59:57going back to last week but that's what
0:59:57going back to last week but that's what
1:00:00to be it doesn't want to be a kinky
1:00:01wants to be king of the keys and
1:00:03everybody else believes unto Him kinky
1:00:05kinky low was betide you how how many
1:00:09dinguses do you have on
1:00:12yeah it's you know that guy you wanna
1:00:15know the truth I have the most basic you
1:00:20know the kind of key chain where you
1:00:21open up your thumbnail and put these on
1:00:23there
1:00:24yep two keys whoa what was that you ski
1:00:29ski office key i spent 48 years getting
1:00:31it down to two keys
1:00:33I used to think it was a sign of status
1:00:34to have many keys many people still
1:00:36believe this but i know i have i have
1:00:39those two keys if I need the car key i
1:00:42grab the car key to key not having a car
1:00:45key on there also means i drive less two
1:00:49keys so I'm you know the thing is also
1:00:51like I don't have a lot of dell like I
1:00:52don't boats and stuff like that and i'm
1:00:54not trying to look down on people to do
1:00:55but like to me that's freedom is fewer
1:00:56keys
1:00:57mhm is somebody should definitely attend
1:01:00creative fewer keys because every key
1:01:02you get is another thing you have to
1:01:03take care of now i remember when i had
1:01:06zero keys in my twenties and I really
1:01:10living in the minivan i was living in
1:01:11the minivan and I didn't even have a key
1:01:13to it and then I got story they did I
1:01:16what does a huge deal as they like
1:01:18here's a key to the house if you really
1:01:19need it don't abuse it right yeah I got
1:01:21a key and then when I got a job I got a
1:01:24key to my my work and I had a key to an
1:01:29apartment and a key to my work and then
1:01:30that I had those two keys for a long
1:01:33time and then i got i was like the
1:01:35assistant manager and they gave me a
1:01:36different key just the newsstand the
1:01:38newsstand three keys and then my mom
1:01:42moved to town and I had a key to her
1:01:44house for keys and I didn't get a car I
1:01:50didn't you know I didn't get a car in
1:01:52seattle until I was about 30 years old
1:01:54and then I had a key to that and at a
1:01:57certain point when the earth in the
1:01:59early long winters to her days you had
1:02:02like I remember so many key you look
1:02:05like a superintendent you had that giant
1:02:06a small it with all the currencies of
1:02:09the world in it
1:02:10and all of the the money the band made
1:02:12you a giant giant truckers wallet and
1:02:14you had a huge Yankees you like a
1:02:16superintendent yeah i did i did i was
1:02:18and you know I was probably wearing a
1:02:19hat that said King ropes Sheridan
1:02:22Wyoming or or you know
1:02:25Marvins gas and go tight women loose in
1:02:29here
1:02:29no no you for years you had had to sit
1:02:34chick magnet on it
1:02:35chick magnet because I believe in truth
1:02:38in advertising but now i have i have
1:02:41this key ring that has you know that's
1:02:43been that's been really good office keys
1:02:45house keys and now i have a fuckin
1:02:49dingus on and I just I it's only been on
1:02:52there for the length of this program I
1:02:54was putting it on my key ring as I as I
1:02:57was sitting here waiting for you to call
1:02:58and I'm just looking at I'm trying to
1:03:01figure out you know the dingus kind of
1:03:02sticks out at an angle from the rest of
1:03:04the keys because so good i couldn't have
1:03:06it on there i used to have like a little
1:03:08aluminum arm bottle cap opener here this
1:03:11looks super light little things even
1:03:13that was too much I had to take that off
1:03:14of there
1:03:15so what do i do I put this on a rope
1:03:17around my neck I married a backpack and
1:03:18give me a cancer
1:03:20um I carry my briefcase because i am a
1:03:24serious candidate for public office to
1:03:27me like in my lifestyle that's good that
1:03:29screams backpack to me you know it's
1:03:31just but I mean are you with me a little
1:03:32bit on the gem anything like it seems
1:03:34like everything wants to be the center
1:03:35of everything now
1:03:36yeah and and like I think about how many
1:03:38things are becoming more externalized
1:03:40where you used to have
1:03:42I must go way back you have a pocket
1:03:44watch in your pocket you'd have a you
1:03:46know a billfold in your inner jacket you
1:03:49might have you might have kids but like
1:03:50very few of your items of flair would be
1:03:52external now when i go pick up my kid to
1:03:55camp for the zoo this especially with
1:03:57the women like I guess I want to carry a
1:03:58purse or something but they're walking
1:04:00around with all this stuff they have
1:04:01these giant like a jailer with this
1:04:03giant ring of keys too many many
1:04:04minivans little matchboxes on there they
1:04:07got a phone and maybe an ipad they got a
1:04:09wallet it's like the people just carry
1:04:11that stuff around with them know it
1:04:12seems it seems so strange to me
1:04:13well like I I never go anywhere without
1:04:15a jacket and a backpack
1:04:17you always need a jacket and backpack
1:04:19because it's you know and and and look
1:04:20here's the thing like with my kid
1:04:22can I I my wife and I go around on this
1:04:24sometimes we will be 70 in the morning
1:04:26and I'm like listen I don't care if it's
1:04:2880 the thing is the arcade is being
1:04:31raised in san francisco and she will
1:04:32learn to always have a jacket that
1:04:34always yes never not have a jacket
1:04:37because here's the thing you can take it
1:04:38off
1:04:38we r pacific coast people yeah and you
1:04:41need a jacket a light jacket like i'm
1:04:44here with children will be born wearing
1:04:45fleece I went the other day i was lucky
1:04:50enough to meet a guy who runs a company
1:04:55that is to devising or building out
1:05:01vr and they are technologies em and i
1:05:07went to their shop and AR augmented
1:05:11reality augmented one that went to the
1:05:13shop and I put on an oculus headset boop
1:05:16and I was ushered into a virtual reality
1:05:21universe and given several tours of
1:05:28different virtual realities and try on a
1:05:34couple of headsets including the one
1:05:35that the one made of cardboard
1:05:38I think we're going to google and google
1:05:39one yeah and some others the way you
1:05:41just kind of slip you're big you're big
1:05:44nokia phone into a slot and all of a
1:05:47sudden it's a it functions as a VR right
1:05:50and you know the state of the technology
1:05:56right now is is it's very new and a lot
1:06:02of the stuff i was looking at kind of
1:06:03felt like the money for nothing video
1:06:06that all right hand like very basic
1:06:10wireframe like hot polyhedrons and look
1:06:14at this the guy look at morning working
1:06:16get your money on your MTV there you
1:06:20know I mean obviously better than that
1:06:22but still like yeah this is not let's
1:06:25let's not call this reality but there
1:06:28were some incredible i mean there was
1:06:31some incredible stuff footed shot from
1:06:34three-dimensional cameras are you know
1:06:37like 360-degree cameras where you're
1:06:40flying a helicopter over beautiful
1:06:43Iceland and you're able to kind of turn
1:06:45your head and look around this this
1:06:47place and and in you know just sort of
1:06:54in in its not in real time but you are
1:06:58able to explore a kind of a an
1:07:02environment and as I was as I was a in
1:07:07that world I felt like yeah write it as
1:07:10a as from a gaming standpoint or from a
1:07:13from a like demo a job training
1:07:20standpoint or from a from a touristic
1:07:23standpoint like this type of thing is
1:07:25very interesting but really it's
1:07:26augmented reality that is going to be
1:07:28where we live
1:07:30yeah that's going to be our universe and
1:07:33I feel like all these key fobs and iPads
1:07:38and and this sort of backpack or purse
1:07:44full of Gidget gadgets and Gaz Mo's like
1:07:52where that's all leading is that in our
1:07:55glasses which we're all gonna wear in
1:07:59our in our advisors there will be a
1:08:02constant sort of ebb and flow between
1:08:05reality and the augmentation of it and
1:08:10you're gonna you know you're going to
1:08:12look at the at the lock on your door and
1:08:14it's going to open because it's going to
1:08:15recognize right maybe the right
1:08:17triangulation of things like right that
1:08:19there's you year there's presents the
1:08:21presences you you are looking at it and
1:08:24you know exactly but the right
1:08:26combination of things are so many things
1:08:27the air can change
1:08:29yeah you just so much sooner than VR
1:08:30walk around you just sort of like how i
1:08:33would like to activate the the history
1:08:36you know they're like our local archives
1:08:39because i want to know when this
1:08:41building was built and when the addition
1:08:45was put on and
1:08:46just like pow and then you're like I'm
1:08:48really i'm on the bus i'm really bored
1:08:50right now I would like to bring up some
1:08:53some infotainment but there are but I'm
1:08:56always gonna have I'm always gonna be
1:08:58able to look through it in order to make
1:09:00sure that nobody steps on my foot or you
1:09:02know nobody takes me by surprise and
1:09:05this kind of like in and out of of
1:09:10reality this is the new reality and it's
1:09:15you know it's so tantalizing to look at
1:09:18it in its in its germinating stage and
1:09:23just say like wow this is like so
1:09:25primitive primitive right now compared
1:09:26to what it will be
1:09:27yeah and and so like that the endless
1:09:31possibilities of it are truly an
1:09:33evolution of looking at an evolutionary
1:09:35possibility like it we we cannot know
1:09:38because it would be like it would be
1:09:41like being a lizard and imagining that
1:09:44you had warm blood or something like
1:09:48it's just there's gonna be so much
1:09:51our minds are going to work so much
1:09:52differently life is going to be so much
1:09:54different and it's thrilling and I just
1:09:59you know just just the ability to kind
1:10:02of put on a headset and be real world
1:10:04and and it will always be alien to me
1:10:11you know but it won't be to my kid or
1:10:13yours
1:10:13I feel like I feel like we will always
1:10:19be I we will be mocked and derided our
1:10:23generation because we bridged this gap
1:10:27between a purely mechanical world like
1:10:33the the generation before ours you know
1:10:37they went out and worked on their cars
1:10:39on a saturday right and we have spent
1:10:43our whole lives playing missed and the
1:10:49next
1:10:49generation is going to be able to
1:10:51conjure all data at at once and we're
1:10:54gonna really the loonies because we
1:10:55could have done it sooner right or
1:10:57something you know what better and
1:10:58they're gonna see us you know here with
1:11:00our like like electric cars and it's
1:11:05just gonna seem so funny like okay could
1:11:07you have the electric car and yet you
1:11:11can open highway seek yeah you didn't
1:11:13claim it yet and you know and and we had
1:11:16our little phones and we spent all this
1:11:17time using them to kind of using them as
1:11:21phones and write all this you know we're
1:11:25just this this this like connective
1:11:28tissue era where nothing nothing we're
1:11:31actually doing is elegant or I mean it's
1:11:34said like the idea of going down in
1:11:38cruising the strip in your 57 Chevy is
1:11:40so much more elegant am then sitting on
1:11:44facebook on a Saturday night posting a
1:11:48posting like huffy indignant messages
1:11:51friends
1:11:53we're going to be best remembered on our
1:11:54good days for not getting in the way too
1:11:56much
1:11:57yeah you didn't you didn't directly
1:11:59stand in the way of incredibly obvious
1:12:00you you know what here's the thing i
1:12:02love about your grandpa is it over time
1:12:04you somehow found a way to be less and
1:12:06less standing exactly in the way of
1:12:08progress and you're standing there with
1:12:11your you know with your ipad that
1:12:13doesn't work because your cloud is full
1:12:15on shaking it going
1:12:17god damn and I just need to upgrade my
1:12:18OS just need a fresh heal when you are
1:12:21when you get a leech Anya is it like in
1:12:24the movies doesn't make a little bloody
1:12:26spot when you pull it off
1:12:27oh yeah oh yeah so it's got like teeth
1:12:30oh yeah it's gonna be there squirming
1:12:32and crawling on you and they're really
1:12:33there literally like big they're very
1:12:36big but they're kinda like a slug look
1:12:39at that there are little tiny leader
1:12:41leeches of all sizes but these this
1:12:43particular leach experience they were
1:12:45leeches as big as slugs bigger than
1:12:47snails as big as big big Western slugs
1:12:50it and but they're you know they are
1:12:53biting into you and and sucking your
1:12:57blood
1:12:58and that's horrifying
1:13:03it's horrifying even if you are not
1:13:04somebody who's already horrified by most
1:13:08things which I was then you know like
1:13:12horrified by strange foods harley and of
1:13:14course sounds in the night horrified by
1:13:17in some ways fortified by nature even
1:13:22though I grew up kind of surrounded by
1:13:24nature like I mean I was never horrified
1:13:27by wolves always horrified by bugs
1:13:34I like that was birds now we talk about
1:13:36birds so many times but like little
1:13:38little beady-eyed animals are starting
1:13:39to freak me out more so birds are are
1:13:41the thing that are getting under your
1:13:43skin
1:13:44I mean I get around ok but as long as I
1:13:46don't think about it too much but when I
1:13:48think about birds and the way that they
1:13:50move
1:13:50it's troubling to me like that watching
1:13:52a pigeon move makes me very
1:13:53uncomfortable when they're on the ground
1:13:55or whether in the air
1:13:56I pretty elegant the airborne their
1:13:57decision that quirky little herky-jerky
1:13:59dance when they're walking around
1:14:01yeah people feed him yeah yeah you
1:14:03imagine you try to imagine what they're
1:14:05thinking
1:14:06yeah vision I mean you know i'm i'm now
1:14:08engaged in a process of trying to rid my
1:14:10house of the possum is this like it
1:14:12before it's a project now it's project
1:14:14and I've got some possum traps in the
1:14:17basement in the Attic the possum has so
1:14:20far now we're going into day three day
1:14:23four the possum has avoided the traps
1:14:26but has also been kind of not around I
1:14:29have not heard the possum
1:14:30I'm trying to imagine the possum imagine
1:14:34what he's thinking when he arrives sees
1:14:36the trap smells the bait her in the dark
1:14:43and it's really a little bachelor pad
1:14:45his pad he's like wait a minute
1:14:47something's something new is here smells
1:14:50good looks weird like where he goes it
1:14:54is possible mind right now where he goes
1:14:57is is out back outside or something he's
1:15:01not he's not falling for it so i hope i
1:15:06don't i hope i don't have like
1:15:07the smart possum
1:15:11I don't be so miserable if you have an
1:15:12infestation of smart possums I hope no
1:15:18no like where they were they've got a
1:15:19learning a learning thing you know like
1:15:21the crows like if you cross the pond
1:15:22where I think about I don't think about
1:15:24but you cross a possum with a crowd you
1:15:25gotta become serious problems now let's
1:15:27think about that for a second
1:15:28uh-huh how much what needs to happen in
1:15:31the possum community where they can
1:15:33achieve with the crow community has been
1:15:35doing for years that the ability to
1:15:38share information with large groups of
1:15:41other members of the tribe
1:15:43yep and i think the problem is possible
1:15:45or solitary uh-huh and it's that their
1:15:48lack of social that lack of like social
1:15:51connection they're never going to get as
1:15:52smart as the crows that we're going to
1:15:54keep those labs in different states
1:15:56I'm with possible a micro lab I don't
1:15:58want to even have each other's phone
1:15:59number i tried many different places so
1:16:00think about that think that somebody
1:16:02gets fired once the console of trouble
1:16:04you know I'm saying they introduced a
1:16:06virus that makes possum social maybe of
1:16:09Jesus this jar falls in this petri dish
1:16:10whoops and all of a sudden possums are
1:16:14congregating here up in your attic here
1:16:16because i have little conversations
1:16:19about you and like and like how funny is
1:16:22that you think that trap works
1:16:23yeah we're just when you come out of the
1:16:25house they're just kind of standing
1:16:26there on your porch just looking at you
1:16:29just without effect
1:16:31they're not scared they're not happy
1:16:32there anything just there like they're
1:16:33just there
1:16:34yea is my house smiles to nobody yeah
1:16:36just wanted you to know that we're here
1:16:37and uh like you do with the crows that's
1:16:40right for the crew move on you i'm here
1:16:43i see you i'm here like John I see you
1:16:46John
1:16:46Oh
1:16:48well time
1:16:52o God Almighty