Roderick on the Line

Ep. 155: "Crucibility"

 

  [Music] [TS]

  this episode of Robert online is [TS]

  sponsored by the National gondola [TS]

  manufacturers association mgma develops [TS]

  and lobbies for programs or policies [TS]

  that advance the well-being of gondola [TS]

  producers building a more just verdant [TS]

  and peaceful society and GMA we helped [TS]

  make the things that help make [TS]

  condomless [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  hello hey John hi Merlin how's it going [TS]

  it's going ok how are you going John [TS]

  that too [TS]

  thus need look no more okay i prepared [TS]

  that wasn't very good but had some [TS]

  prepared i liked it I liked it you sing [TS]

  into a rat a rat a distortion pedal or [TS]

  you are literally singing to a rat right [TS]

  I never understood the filter knob oh [TS]

  it's just am it's just like that passes [TS]

  that may not have a high-pass hiding [TS]

  something [TS]

  yeah I think that was Michael Jackson's [TS]

  hit about the rat from that movie [TS]

  oh sure Algernon yep flowers for Ben [TS]

  Algernon yea though I loved them [TS]

  it's about the death of a salesman in [TS]

  many ways mhm [TS]

  I've always found that it was a long [TS]

  day's journey into night [TS]

  yes it was an absence of a dollhouse ok [TS]

  let's keep going come on i wrote a song [TS]

  that's right it is it is a hot l [TS]

  Baltimore ill get em [TS]

  it is a green light over easter egg up [TS]

  but yeah I prepared wrong i just spent [TS]

  on wikipedia yes song your song it is it [TS]

  is a short happy life of Francis [TS]

  Macomber on happy podcasts are different [TS]

  i am I i wrote a song once called a long [TS]

  day's journey into night component was [TS]

  it like that like night is in like [TS]

  jousting [TS]

  mmm that would have been but you know [TS]

  that's more of a bonus that could be a [TS]

  point-to-point long do not owe em thanks [TS]

  / long day's journey trying to I'm [TS]

  trying to work it out you don't really [TS]

  good it was really good at that pungent [TS]

  game is that Ken Jennings he's no gosh I [TS]

  he's insufferable usability something I [TS]

  bet he's ok works on the railroad it [TS]

  seems long day long [TS]

  oh hello it's a it's a it's a gay night [TS]

  porn thing it's got time shifting maybe [TS]

  some star track and you have a journey [TS]

  into night long day and it's spelled dai [TS]

  long day [TS]

  I am ya my long day's journey into night [TS]

  song came from the era where I was [TS]

  riding pretty epic but very precious [TS]

  songs there wasn't any didn't have the [TS]

  kind of light-hearted like grace then [TS]

  later work did she well it's certainly [TS]

  graceful uh were you telling that story [TS]

  moving a kind of Prague way through the [TS]

  music or was it through the lyrics good [TS]

  question good question because I don't [TS]

  give you is you're a great lyricist but [TS]

  you seem like an uncomfortable lyricist [TS]

  oh interesting tell me more [TS]

  well uh it seems to me that you are I [TS]

  mean a team at me that I said no no not [TS]

  at all but i always loved it i always [TS]

  loved thoughtful like thoughtful a calm [TS]

  commentary on my my work you know [TS]

  because even with it what happens right [TS]

  you you go online you read fans who are [TS]

  writing profusely and you read critics [TS]

  who are writing insufferably often you [TS]

  know where they listen to like the first [TS]

  30 seconds of every song one time that [TS]

  you hate that so much and and so [TS]

  somebody that is like really familiar [TS]

  with your work and also has like an [TS]

  interesting comment on it that's i love [TS]

  that i'm happy to join i would also like [TS]

  to just say thank you to our Roderick [TS]

  nation all the people who suggested [TS]

  campaign slogans based on lines from [TS]

  songs and no one was that [TS]

  mhm with john roberts throwing more than [TS]

  shapes from really good with repeated um [TS]

  well no some of this is genetic and some [TS]

  of this is personal [TS]

  in terms of what sort of s am writing [TS]

  here um well I before I knew you as a [TS]

  dude I I George music and listen to it a [TS]

  lot and but then as I got to know you [TS]

  like I i first came to realize that I [TS]

  would make that joke you know a minute [TS]

  ago but you you are when you listen to [TS]

  music you like to be immersed in it you [TS]

  don't do other stuff you're not doing [TS]

  laundry while you're listening to music [TS]

  generally write em isn't a thing like [TS]

  you don't listen to the car and-and-and [TS]

  somebody who's been privy to some of [TS]

  your tracks before their release [TS]

  I know that [TS]

  you appreciate people to listen to them [TS]

  with just listening to them all the way [TS]

  through pleased with headphones and the [TS]

  festivities but you were saying that [TS]

  there was something about me that made [TS]

  me feel like I was like uncomfortable [TS]

  lyricist and that is very well it's [TS]

  funny because and there may be an [TS]

  element of a crucible here but you I [TS]

  mean you write great great pop songs and [TS]

  you have a lot of I don't know i just i [TS]

  love the structure of your songs in the [TS]

  way they work and i love the free parts [TS]

  and i love the complicated parts in the [TS]

  changes but it seems like especially in [TS]

  that I I just get the feeling that you [TS]

  end up writing a lot of lyrics later in [TS]

  the process you maybe maybe maybe you [TS]

  got a line I don't know but it seems [TS]

  like even that little documentary-like [TS]

  didn't you write like I was in car parts [TS]

  that was an old song but aren't there [TS]

  songs that are pretty popular of yours [TS]

  that you kind of wrote in the studio we [TS]

  have several like baby stuff from [TS]

  putting the days to bed so i'll [TS]

  definitely the song hindsight I i wrote [TS]

  largely in the studio largely in the [TS]

  last hour and scared straight [TS]

  I wrote in the statute you came up with [TS]

  those lines like just writing in the [TS]

  studio in the you know in the this is [TS]

  the this is one of my major work [TS]

  problems is that in the crucible in the [TS]

  in the pressure cooker I i produce but [TS]

  but I don't like to be in the pressure [TS]

  cooker it's not a happy place to be and [TS]

  I don't and I can see it coming and I [TS]

  don't want I don't want that to happen [TS]

  either that's why I spent so much time [TS]

  trying to devise a way to stop time stop [TS]

  the progress of time so that i can just [TS]

  have four more hours and knowing if [TS]

  knowing that if I could do that i would [TS]

  just squander that for hours just like I [TS]

  squandered the four hours leading up to [TS]

  that service learning leading up to this [TS]

  moment where i was i spent that for [TS]

  hours thinking about how I could stop [TS]

  time right there's that and so when I [TS]

  finally get in that crucible i am like I [TS]

  I'd I do make things there and part of [TS]

  the part of the reason that there was [TS]

  never a fifth long winters record is [TS]

  that I very deliberately and through [TS]

  methodical process eliminated all [TS]

  all the corners that anybody could put [TS]

  me in right I just I just eliminated out [TS]

  of my life all of the ways i didn't need [TS]

  other people's money anymore i didn't [TS]

  need other people's approval anymore and [TS]

  moved out of my mom's house so she [TS]

  couldn't wake her spatula at me and tell [TS]

  me to get off the couch and you know and [TS]

  i found that at having them that now I [TS]

  was in a round room and nobody could [TS]

  corner me and that is the you know that [TS]

  is that's very telling I think about it [TS]

  all the time I thought about it this [TS]

  morning huh [TS]

  I think about it in the context of this [TS]

  the campaign to like I'm in a corner [TS]

  every day now and and yeah it'sit's um [TS]

  you and I have both experienced this [TS]

  thing where we feel like on the one hand [TS]

  it's good to have external pressure on [TS]

  the other hand we don't want external [TS]

  pressure but for me like external [TS]

  pressure is a real it's a big hit it it [TS]

  is a an important component it's a [TS]

  motivator [TS]

  yeah and thinking about the think about [TS]

  that we use that phrase the crucible of [TS]

  the studio the other thing is that [TS]

  you're paying to be there there's extra [TS]

  increased ability because because now [TS]

  you you're paying everybody there you're [TS]

  paying Tucker you're paying whoever for [TS]

  you to sit there and feel bad i think [TS]

  generally people don't like having to [TS]

  pay to feel bad about things hey you're [TS]

  pretty swell subscribe to magazines [TS]

  anymore i don't want to pay to feel [TS]

  guilty about the new york times you're [TS]

  paying and and and and there are you [TS]

  know the the feeling that like this is [TS]

  your last chance if you don't get this [TS]

  done now like this is in some ways your [TS]

  last chance you're going to end up and [TS]

  not not only not getting this done but [TS]

  then you that this dream is over [TS]

  uh-huh and you know and that was another [TS]

  thing that I got to the kind of rounded [TS]

  that corner off to because it was [TS]

  evidence that i did have a little time [TS]

  my career wasn't going to be over if I [TS]

  took another week or took another two [TS]

  weeks and then Twitter and the internet [TS]

  and you know podcasting and all the [TS]

  charging your phone other all the other [TS]

  things came in and they and they had [TS]

  they also had you know there were [TS]

  rewards to those things like my career [TS]

  at four there were a lot of musicians [TS]

  that were at my level in 2006-2007 that [TS]

  kept making music but did not but their [TS]

  careers didn't really continue because x [TS]

  times change and businessman but I [TS]

  jumped you know I jumped from one nice [TS]

  flow to the next and jumped to another [TS]

  ice floe and another and and some of [TS]

  that was was running from the corner but [TS]

  it all it all produced new exciting [TS]

  things and and so yeah I I you know we [TS]

  talk about this all the time and I I'm [TS]

  fast I'm out early fascinated by this [TS]

  topic and to get back to what you're [TS]

  actually talking about [TS]

  it's to me it's um it's such a dark car [TS]

  to try to understand well first of all [TS]

  why anybody wants to make anything [TS]

  really differs a lot from person to [TS]

  person and whether that difference in [TS]

  terms of the I despise that were in that [TS]

  context motivated motivation inspiration [TS]

  but like what you think you'll get out [TS]

  of having done it and it's one of those [TS]

  weird things where you can look at [TS]

  somebody who's very prolific and [TS]

  successful and it is a little like Anna [TS]

  Karenina where you can look at somebody [TS]

  who's doing it great and they're having [TS]

  a great time and people are enjoying [TS]

  what they do and they're just you know I [TS]

  have friends like this you just say they [TS]

  just write all the time look at John [TS]

  Scalzi guy like he's such a cool guy [TS]

  such a nice guy so prolific and so like [TS]

  johnny on the spot to get involved in [TS]

  anything like I really feel like I [TS]

  learned a lot about being around that [TS]

  guy on the cruise was really inspired [TS]

  actually inspiring to me but you won't [TS]

  look at somebody like that you know of [TS]

  course we're going to kill him but [TS]

  because it's super frustrating that they [TS]

  get so much done [TS]

  it's easy enough to look at somebody [TS]

  where everything everything is clicking [TS]

  on all cylinders and go well obviously [TS]

  that's the way to do it but there's like [TS]

  10,000 ways to not do it and there's [TS]

  many multiple ways to not do it and it's [TS]

  almost impossible sometimes to [TS]

  understand why you're not [TS]

  functioning a tenth of the level of [TS]

  somebody else and part of that could be [TS]

  pressure and I think of course the [TS]

  obvious the elephant in the room is the [TS]

  pressure you start to put on yourself [TS]

  because now you make one makes an [TS]

  impossible situation more impossible by [TS]

  constantly raising the bar moving the [TS]

  bar hiding the bar and and then that [TS]

  just creates like self doubt and anxiety [TS]

  and all the other kinds of stuff that [TS]

  make you totally uninterested in even [TS]

  attempting something because you feel [TS]

  like I'm speaking for myself as somebody [TS]

  who's getting later in life I don't this [TS]

  is of all the things i'm most about this [TS]

  is not the top of the list but one thing [TS]

  I do think about as well what if I do [TS]

  make something that's not what everybody [TS]

  was expecting and now they're [TS]

  disappointed and I wasted my time and [TS]

  why do I bother in the first place [TS]

  I think that's kind of common feeling [TS]

  yeah i think so too i think so too and [TS]

  and and panic definitely feeling I share [TS]

  I mean I'm talking about artists and art [TS]

  makers all the time now because that is [TS]

  you know that's the place i'm coming [TS]

  from as I'm talking to the city right [TS]

  and and i keep saying like you don't [TS]

  need their they're not a they're not [TS]

  they're not a unified group of people [TS]

  that all work the same way and a lot of [TS]

  them don't want your attention they just [TS]

  need they know they need to be left [TS]

  alone they need to live in a run-down [TS]

  places they need to that's part of their [TS]

  thing that was definitely part of my [TS]

  process and my thing and how do you [TS]

  convince the city to preserve places [TS]

  that look to people driving by in their [TS]

  Tesla's like abandoned or decaying [TS]

  warehouses that could be replaced with [TS]

  with big bright shiny things and the [TS]

  idea that in those in those dark places [TS]

  is where the culture of 10 years from [TS]

  now is being germinated right and those [TS]

  spaces are actually like key elements of [TS]

  any real city and if you think of them [TS]

  just as underused property and and [TS]

  there's and the problem is there's no [TS]

  way to do an economic impact statement [TS]

  about about that about those spaces and [TS]

  done that kind of mental space right [TS]

  oh god yeah I you know if this is just [TS]

  just occurring to me as a an emerging [TS]

  thought technology but if you think [TS]

  about the role of implicit let's look [TS]

  for now it's limited to artists but roll [TS]

  limited all artists in a city what their [TS]

  role ends up being in the city is very [TS]

  good if you have true artist as in [TS]

  people who are not just not just people [TS]

  who are making you know are successful [TS]

  at making seashell art that people put [TS]

  in hotels but people who are actually [TS]

  exploring new ideas and new approaches [TS]

  and maybe aren't successful [TS]

  quote-unquote yet ice [TS]

  I feel like there's an analogy to be [TS]

  made where artists are in some ways the [TS]

  city's children [TS]

  no not in terms of maturity but well you [TS]

  know not strictly speaking but in the [TS]

  sense of like you know if you're a [TS]

  parent like the dumbest thing that you [TS]

  can do is to constantly expect your kid [TS]

  to be a grown-up when they're not i mean [TS]

  there's so many ways you can fuck that [TS]

  up every day for 20 years [TS]

  you don't mean like it really is helpful [TS]

  to understand that well you know at this [TS]

  kids level of development [TS]

  this is what they're capable of this is [TS]

  what there may be capable of this is [TS]

  what [TS]

  there should be more capable of but you [TS]

  would never expect your kid to like come [TS]

  home after school and write a novel in a [TS]

  day because that wouldn't but but we [TS]

  don't see the same person does not [TS]

  expect that you certainly don't expect [TS]

  your kid to be profitable you understand [TS]

  that your kid is is a cost center rather [TS]

  than a profit Center my daughter can't [TS]

  even manage to go down to the corner [TS]

  store and get me cigarettes and I so [TS]

  every day I'm like simple your writing [TS]

  on her hand it's simple American you can [TS]

  figure it out but where I mean any sane [TS]

  person this is a strain analogy but go [TS]

  with me any sane person would have those [TS]

  reasonable expectations and say plus you [TS]

  know your kind of nice to have around [TS]

  and I i'm very excited to be here to [TS]

  watch you become a more interesting [TS]

  person and have a future that I could [TS]

  have absolutely no way to even fathom or [TS]

  predict right yeah so that you go with [TS]

  me on this and then with the city we [TS]

  expect it's like we're interested in the [TS]

  artist [TS]

  if they're successful in the New York [TS]

  Times we're not interested in the artist [TS]

  when they're just finding their way but [TS]

  that attracts a lot of people to a town [TS]

  places where you've got an expense but [TS]

  inexpensive place to live to kind of [TS]

  figure out a thing that you're doing but [TS]

  we don't treat them like we don't armed [TS]

  guard that like we would a space for [TS]

  kids we treat them we treat them like [TS]

  dirty hippies who need to have their [TS]

  homes turned into places where people [TS]

  who work at startups will have the next [TS]

  artist is never popular you know the [TS]

  though the last artist is is always you [TS]

  know the one that people recognize is [TS]

  like wow he started from nothing and [TS]

  he's there you know he or she now is [TS]

  enormously popular and isn't that an [TS]

  amazing uplifting story and then the [TS]

  next artist is always the is always back [TS]

  back to square one right i mean there [TS]

  are there are people in the art [TS]

  curatorial world that are out there [TS]

  digging in the dirt looking for the next [TS]

  you know the next big thing but for the [TS]

  most part in terms of the way a city [TS]

  thinks it it has no provision for the [TS]

  fact that hard scrabble is the that is [TS]

  the pool where ideas are really [TS]

  generated and you know the the the [TS]

  mountain view cupertino idea that you [TS]

  build it build a tower and you fill it [TS]

  with young people from Stanford and [TS]

  that's where the ideas are going to come [TS]

  from is one is it is like one vision of [TS]

  the future but traditionally all those [TS]

  ideas come from the all the all the real [TS]

  ideas that push progress come from [TS]

  people that are in a corner right and a [TS]

  and in that crucible and then they have [TS]

  they have that flash that comes partly [TS]

  because they're under pressure and just [TS]

  being under pressure to make a hundred [TS]

  million dollars before you're 26 is not [TS]

  really creative pressure right and [TS]

  that's what that's purely just it's [TS]

  there's the the self-motivated component [TS]

  but then it's just competition your job [TS]

  to get there fast [TS]

  it's just ego pressure and that's why we [TS]

  have that's why the Internet economy is [TS]

  based so much on let's take that one [TS]

  idea that somebody once had and and you [TS]

  know and put a cat on it or you know [TS]

  let's like that lesson modify let's [TS]

  modify this idea and modify it again and [TS]

  just keep like grinding and and you know [TS]

  no really it's not really moving the [TS]

  civilization ball forward it's just [TS]

  trying to move the Prophet ball around [TS]

  right i mean on the way into town today [TS]

  I I saw two interesting things i'm [TS]

  driving in and there's a i'm driving [TS]

  past boeing field and there's a private [TS]

  jet parked on the tarmac and it is [TS]

  painted in basically tribal tattoo [TS]

  graphics and I'm like that's in you know [TS]

  like Mike Tyson face tattoo style an [TS]

  Aboriginal cavea Polynesian neo [TS]

  polynesian tattoo a graphical stuff but [TS]

  with no real ethnic aspect it's been you [TS]

  know it's been taken out of context [TS]

  modified enough that it just looks like [TS]

  pointy lines but that's where it's [TS]

  coming from and then and so I'm looking [TS]

  at it I'm like is this like a is some [TS]

  kind of red bowl thing or something and [TS]

  then on the on the engine written in [TS]

  gothic script so you see where we're [TS]

  going now [TS]

  no there's some a Latin phrase that's [TS]

  basically like if some dough lower or [TS]

  you know like literally I don't remember [TS]

  what it sounds like vice magazine sit [TS]

  but you know even vice has enough [TS]

  self-awareness to if they were going to [TS]

  make that joke it would have it would [TS]

  have had one other element like a [TS]

  blanket like a silver skull and [TS]

  crossbones or something but this was [TS]

  clearly somebody some person who got [TS]

  rich and had a like a maxim magazine or [TS]

  a lad mag [TS]

  a aesthetic and now all the money in the [TS]

  world and this was not a small jet [TS]

  either you know it's a it's not like it [TS]

  wasn't a huge one but like a [TS]

  medium-sized like a Gulfstream yeah [TS]

  somewhere in the citation gulfstream [TS]

  zone and this was their choice right [TS]

  this is like I've got my own jet I'm [TS]

  gonna make it look badass forget giant [TS]

  skateboard badass and you just know when [TS]

  you got on board it was just gonna be [TS]

  like it was gonna be like being inside [TS]

  the Hat of the guy from jam Iroquois [TS]

  about it i know exactly which could you [TS]

  just climb in that like fake fur hat and [TS]

  i'm just i'm driving past I'm just like [TS]

  you know that's exactly that's exactly [TS]

  the thing right i mean i was thinking [TS]

  about I woke up this morning singing I'd [TS]

  like to buy the world to cook and I [TS]

  thought about it I'm like I still love [TS]

  that song it's a really nice song I [TS]

  realized like well cokes are expensive [TS]

  in America but they're not very [TS]

  expensive around the world but let's [TS]

  assume that you can buy like over the [TS]

  course of the earth the average price of [TS]

  a coke let's just say it's 50 cents and [TS]

  I think that's way higher [TS]

  I think that's way too high i think you [TS]

  could probably get if you if you like [TS]

  aggregated the cost of coke around the [TS]

  world coke is probably three cents a cup [TS]

  but let's say it's 50 cents so there are [TS]

  actually people lots of a handful but [TS]

  lots of people lots of a handful who [TS]

  could literally buy the world a coke [TS]

  they could buy a coke for every person [TS]

  in the world and pay for the logistics [TS]

  to supply that Coke to every person in [TS]

  the wall that's that's pretty [TS]

  astonishing right there are people in [TS]

  Seattle who could buy the world a coke [TS]

  oh my god so anyway i'm driving past [TS]

  this airplane and I'm like this you know [TS]

  and what did this guy do is he he's some [TS]

  kind of mean it's hard to know whether [TS]

  he is on an internet entrepreneur who [TS]

  who has it was just broadcasting this [TS]

  aesthetic because he's a badass or [TS]

  whether he's some kind of actual like he [TS]

  owns oakley sunglasses and this branding [TS]

  is sort of part of his overall brand of [TS]

  like a badass attitude and I'm just [TS]

  gonna shake my head and then I pass a [TS]

  little one of those little sprint cars [TS]

  coming the other way and it says and it [TS]

  has the logo of a company across the [TS]

  hood of the car and the logo is [TS]

  something like graffiti be gone and it's [TS]

  a it's a sort of brand new car and a [TS]

  startup company who just from the name i [TS]

  have to assume is is selling this [TS]

  service get out there and really like [TS]

  really finally get on top of this plague [TS]

  of graffiti that's happening that's [TS]

  sweeping the world that's causing our [TS]

  cities to be so uninhabitable and it's [TS]

  like that the the aesthetic of this [TS]

  guy's airplane and the and what these [TS]

  people in this little car are imagining [TS]

  is the is the is the real trouble here [TS]

  the broken windows syndrome and you know [TS]

  there's there's just no awareness that [TS]

  like I mean graffiti artists are are [TS]

  exactly the people who are backed into a [TS]

  corner and then produce something at [TS]

  their best at the best graffiti work is [TS]

  the is you know is up there with the [TS]

  best art right and the the worst [TS]

  graffiti art like it is still speaking [TS]

  in a language that most people don't [TS]

  that don't recognize it as a language [TS]

  don't understand what's happening over [TS]

  at but but there's a whole philosophy [TS]

  behind a reclaiming the the Brutalism of [TS]

  of the concrete public space we've we [TS]

  have we've acquiesced to most of our [TS]

  public space being on just bare concrete [TS]

  walls the way I talk about under freeway [TS]

  passes [TS]

  and you know there's so much space in [TS]

  the city that we just stood idly by [TS]

  while big you know like big [TS]

  infrastructure determined that what we [TS]

  were going to look at was gray concrete [TS]

  and as you're driving around it's just [TS]

  like you're gonna you're in a world of [TS]

  great concrete and that's the that is an [TS]

  aesthetic and it's an aesthetic that is [TS]

  practical but it's still a bit still a [TS]

  powerful aesthetic and graffiti has a [TS]

  whole philosophy or a whole you know a [TS]

  its ideological in a way like we're [TS]

  reclaiming that space with color at the [TS]

  very least and here these guys are [TS]

  puttering along you know in their car [TS]

  graffiti be gone and i'm sure that that [TS]

  what they're doing is going to [TS]

  businesses and who had their front doors [TS]

  tagged and right you know medicating [TS]

  that but I'm just thinking about this [TS]

  guy sitting in his jab mera koi plane [TS]

  and he's probably on a gold cell phone [TS]

  and he's probably talking to a graffiti [TS]

  artist about you know putting up a [TS]

  putting up a you know a piece em on the [TS]

  wall of his you know his concrete [TS]

  loft-style office space in down in the [TS]

  mission in San remember brother i'm [TS]

  presuming this guy lives in San [TS]

  Francisco sure I'm and I think it's not [TS]

  to take that is right i would like for [TS]

  you potentially to write the song about [TS]

  this but i think i really like the late [TS]

  harry chapin terrain [TS]

  yes little twist at the end see he is [TS]

  not an uncomfortable lyricist he would [TS]

  dive right in [TS]

  ma knows how to suck at your [TS]

  heartstrings would be like no Henry [TS]

  component to it they realized that they [TS]

  were like and maybe they're twins [TS]

  separated at birth mother feeding the [TS]

  creepy guy in the plague I oh hello can [TS]

  see there's a twist twist to it you you [TS]

  just I just got chills the cat's in the [TS]

  cradle and he's it's got his spray paint [TS]

  can and the little boy blue and his tag [TS]

  on the door and we're going to help when [TS]

  you comin home jamiroquai up the reason [TS]

  that the reason that i was so enthralled [TS]

  by long day's journey into night was [TS]

  that you know that play came out in the [TS]

  early [TS]

  forties and really want it takes place [TS]

  earlier right [TS]

  yeah I think it looks like it's eugene [TS]

  o'neill's childhood right right right [TS]

  but you know it was like it was that it [TS]

  was that really fruitful period of [TS]

  Americans like letters we have the [TS]

  middle in the middle of the century the [TS]

  modern age man that's right and and that [TS]

  so when I think about that like my my [TS]

  dad was 21 [TS]

  let's say my uncle Jack was 17 and that [TS]

  play landed and they but both of those [TS]

  guys my dad and his brother both have [TS]

  told me many times that that play [TS]

  described their family and described [TS]

  their household in a way that no other [TS]

  work before sentence and they both [TS]

  identified so strongly with it and I you [TS]

  know I feel like my Uncle Jack had has [TS]

  been trying to write his version of a [TS]

  long day's journey into night his whole [TS]

  life [TS]

  wow he sends me drafts of of plays that [TS]

  he has been working on about his [TS]

  childhood he's in his late eighties now [TS]

  that's a sad [TS]

  well because those you know those guys [TS]

  were trying to make sense of the of the [TS]

  of the world they grew up in and this [TS]

  was in it this was a one of those great [TS]

  moments where a work of art landed and [TS]

  it helped and helped my you know he'll [TS]

  come on little like a catharsis because [TS]

  I mean like a classical sense that we're [TS]

  this is an instrument for me I think [TS]

  anytime you have something comes along [TS]

  that puts a name or a story on to [TS]

  something you didn't think had a name or [TS]

  a story go oh wow I really see myself in [TS]

  this and you can only mean vs yeah and [TS]

  that and I feel like they felt really [TS]

  alone and isolated growing up it in the [TS]

  sense that they were living in a [TS]

  community middle-class community where [TS]

  their friends didn't have these problems [TS]

  there in on that that's a that's a [TS]

  little bit of everybody's problem right [TS]

  you never know what is happening behind [TS]

  closed doors in your friends house [TS]

  those right but but here they hear they [TS]

  saw their story writ large and when I [TS]

  think it changed them both and so as i [TS]

  was in when i was 21 and trying to [TS]

  understand my own life I would i read [TS]

  that play and put and cast my father and [TS]

  my uncle in it and it helped me you know [TS]

  it's a it's like a work of art that that [TS]

  has kind of started to be threaded into [TS]

  my family's sense of itself and so I'm [TS]

  always try it on but I recognize it as [TS]

  as more than just a like a seminal work [TS]

  it's you know there's a personal element [TS]

  to it because because my grandfather [TS]

  didn't wasn't it wasn't able to write [TS]

  his own story and my dad never wrote [TS]

  that story and my uncle is as tried you [TS]

  know we were a lot we lean on artists [TS]

  for so much and and they they do so much [TS]

  and it's never a thing that you can [TS]

  properly put a price on and that's a [TS]

  that's a cliche to say but but it's um [TS]

  but it's something i'm just i'm thinking [TS]

  about all the time like hey we we have [TS]

  we have gone so far in that direction of [TS]

  trying to figure out like well what [TS]

  what's the value of angry birds the [TS]

  value of angry birds is over April how [TS]

  many people downloaded how many people [TS]

  buy it [TS]

  yeah and you know and and that is [TS]

  reckoned to be over a billion dollars [TS]

  and the value of eugene o'neill or the [TS]

  value of Mick Jagger even you know is [TS]

  reckons to be Mick Jagger is one of the [TS]

  richest rock stars in Britain with a [TS]

  network worth of 200 million dollars or [TS]

  something [TS]

  which is one-fifth of the value of angry [TS]

  birds and you don't even care numbers [TS]

  are right [TS]

  that's not a great statistic i'm going [TS]

  to use that you know it's all five [TS]

  members of The Rolling Stones dealing [TS]

  with angry birds they don't reach it the [TS]

  other the other the other guys I mean [TS]

  having Keith Richards is worth less [TS]

  because he had to spend all that money [TS]

  getting his blood replaced multiple [TS]

  times and then the other guys let's get [TS]

  a date you get a day rate yeah they're [TS]

  just on salary but like the collected [TS]

  works of eugene o'neill has a value in [TS]

  our culture of I can only imagine a [TS]

  couple million dollars a few million [TS]

  dollars and a handful of millions of [TS]

  dollars right spread over all the the [TS]

  his inheritors and so and so that is you [TS]

  know that that's hard for me as I go out [TS]

  into the city and say like yes we need [TS]

  to build transit absolutely we need to [TS]

  build affordable housing absolutely we [TS]

  need to provide clean water and work for [TS]

  an equitable city but how do you also [TS]

  put a value on on the the intangible [TS]

  things that make a place special and [TS]

  that make us want to stay alive and that [TS]

  make us want to um you know that that [TS]

  help us live in love and and without [TS]

  being able to attach a value to it [TS]

  how can you advocate for it how can you [TS]

  put it up against something else that is [TS]

  that you know is clamoring for this [TS]

  those same resources even if those [TS]

  resources are just lets leave this space [TS]

  alone or let's let's leave these people [TS]

  alone [TS]

  it's a it's it's a real tangle and a lot [TS]

  of people would say well let me just [TS]

  clarify do you feel like you get [TS]

  implicit pushback because you don't have [TS]

  like an economical white paper on the [TS]

  value of artists you know 2001-2011 or [TS]

  something [TS]

  well and the thing is you could make a [TS]

  man there are lots of people who want to [TS]

  make the argument that [TS]

  artists bring it you know they put they [TS]

  stick out their Clinton thumb and start [TS]

  wagging it and say Clinton i'm sorry/not [TS]

  Clinton but the artists have brought in [TS]

  over 270 4.6 million dollars into [TS]

  seattle economy since march of 2011 is [TS]

  like going into a you know that's shown [TS]

  up at a gunfight with a knife [TS]

  you know that's that's that's not going [TS]

  to eat that's like the arguments not [TS]

  gonna fly [TS]

  well no the argument I mean I feel like [TS]

  that argument does fly because people [TS]

  love to hear numbers and they and they [TS]

  not and they go oh yes it is it's an [TS]

  industry just it's an industry [TS]

  equivalent to the industry of chroming [TS]

  uh hub caps and pipe and bumpers you [TS]

  know like if you can package it is it is [TS]

  the numbers are what enables it to be [TS]

  packaged into something that can be [TS]

  easily explained and understood right [TS]

  right but no but what what what you're [TS]

  talking about there is the last artist [TS]

  right the people that made stuff that [TS]

  generated money and we recognized their [TS]

  value and we go the last artist made us [TS]

  to the last artists made 250 million [TS]

  dollars for Seattle that's what we do [TS]

  support them but I'm always talking [TS]

  about the next artists have made nothing [TS]

  and you can't yet they have made no [TS]

  money for you yet and you can't you [TS]

  can't gauge their value by the their [TS]

  potential money some of the best artists [TS]

  never make any money and we only [TS]

  recognized their value later but you [TS]

  can't go into seattle public schools and [TS]

  say and think of art education as job [TS]

  training which is how a lot of people [TS]

  think about it and when that resource [TS]

  constraints really tighten its not happy [TS]

  thing but it's somewhat natural thing to [TS]

  go well you know we get these tests [TS]

  right and we got out there is not is not [TS]

  a test on you know Braque and Picasso [TS]

  there is a test on the specific set of [TS]

  mathematics jobs jobs jobs well and [TS]

  what's crazy is for me like the idea of [TS]

  teaching math because it will get you a [TS]

  good job is is to I think that [TS]

  like it like that disgusting [TS]

  undervaluing of the importance of [TS]

  learning math like when that becomes I [TS]

  mean when that becomes the criteria [TS]

  which it is a lot of the time setting [TS]

  apart the testing stuff when whether it [TS]

  was when you start getting into the like [TS]

  whether this gets you a job thing you [TS]

  start to really sour a lot of what makes [TS]

  education good in the first place i'm [TS]

  not just saying that as a liberal arts [TS]

  fruit but justjust even any of the [TS]

  intrinsic reasons why you won't might [TS]

  want to be a more rounded educated and [TS]

  exposed to the world person starts to [TS]

  fall away if that's your bar right well [TS]

  and you think about what is math I mean [TS]

  be the trade it you know it's the [TS]

  computer mattock computer maths are [TS]

  attracted yeah but math i mean the the [TS]

  the many atheists listening to our [TS]

  program who live in Brandenburg or [TS]

  somewhere it around Lake balitaan and [TS]

  hungry i know that they're out there [TS]

  they're going to see the four doors from [TS]

  here if they're going to objected this [TS]

  but you know math is the language of God [TS]

  right it's that it's you look over God [TS]

  shoulder for a moment and I got you mean [TS]

  Richard Dawkins and by god I mean all of [TS]

  the all of the uncaused causes all the [TS]

  random reverse movers all the great [TS]

  first movers all the negative numbers [TS]

  and and so you know it is it is both the [TS]

  human thought technology math I mean [TS]

  negative numbers right [TS]

  it's a thought technology but also it is [TS]

  an uncovering it is a discovery of a [TS]

  thing it is a school discovery of the [TS]

  first principle and to equate that with [TS]

  like to equate learning that with like [TS]

  developing some skills that are really [TS]

  going to help you later in life as [TS]

  opposed to like should we not all be [TS]

  thinking about this all the time should [TS]

  not math and higher math and the [TS]

  implications of math not be on our minds [TS]

  all the time because they they should be [TS]

  we should be looking at everything [TS]

  through a lens of math because it is the [TS]

  only reason that that the things we've [TS]

  built our standing and it's the that as [TS]

  far as i can tell the only coherent [TS]

  like fabric to explain any kind of what [TS]

  almost everything comes down to math [TS]

  right and that's it and it's a bit [TS]

  it's beautiful poetry and and and a [TS]

  certain at the level of molecular [TS]

  biology or or a particle physics or you [TS]

  know like it all is this unified theory [TS]

  that we're with that we've been [TS]

  struggling to do to find are struggling [TS]

  to reconcile with gravity and that [TS]

  should be at a certain level like our [TS]

  temple we should go to that all of us [TS]

  every week or every day and say wow who [TS]

  we've really you know we've really [TS]

  figured out a lot in recent memory [TS]

  just in the last hundred wherein also [TS]

  refigured things out that's the other [TS]

  just that's the neat thing about science [TS]

  that we are always trying to say like [TS]

  did I get that right yeah let's keep [TS]

  checking that right and so then you go [TS]

  into the schools and you imagine like [TS]

  all the constraints on people even ones [TS]

  who feel that poetry and go into [TS]

  teaching full of that that poetry and [TS]

  then you know requiring them to Governor [TS]

  to teach in prose and little by little [TS]

  you just drain that poetry out of all [TS]

  those experiences and kids are sitting [TS]

  there and they're just like I'm in [TS]

  prison and and it's almost unavoidable [TS]

  in the pressures from parents like is he [TS]

  going to make it is she going to be a [TS]

  good she going to be a good human is she [TS]

  going to get through to the other side [TS]

  and be one of the good humans [TS]

  well can't catch up in yeah i think [TS]

  there's this couple things on the table [TS]

  here that are that are really [TS]

  interesting and I you know I grew up in [TS]

  Cincinnati where we had a really good [TS]

  public school system and and yes i'm [TS]

  sorry there is about to be a little bit [TS]

  of bagging on Florida coming in a minute [TS]

  I apologize in advance [TS]

  now let me just ask before you get [TS]

  started yes please did you ever [TS]

  I mean I'm and I think I know the answer [TS]

  but did you carry a giant comb with the [TS]

  handle sticking out of your back pocket [TS]

  yeah good come did you carry and really [TS]

  a good brand com tried it [TS]

  not a monster no especially on well [TS]

  here's the thing is well I'm glad you [TS]

  asked this question John when I was [TS]

  younger at home a family would have a [TS]

  large goody com something on the order [TS]

  of maybe you know six six to eight [TS]

  inches right right and then there's a [TS]

  new thought technology in the early [TS]

  eighties where they made him small you [TS]

  can put in your pocket and that would [TS]

  stick out of your right back pocket of [TS]

  your of your Levi's a quarter eyes [TS]

  you're right back pocket let me I cannot [TS]

  be more clear gonna comb right back [TS]

  pocket times facing in facing toward [TS]

  your seam i have pre cisely the exact [TS]

  same mental picture you'll never have in [TS]

  your left pocket and you never had the [TS]

  time facing out no come on my god [TS]

  well memory come from the problem is I [TS]

  never had a goodie calm and I remember [TS]

  and remember whoa we aspire to have a [TS]

  good kind did I aspired to have a good [TS]

  command of the problem was i guess like [TS]

  couldn't keep from losing things or my [TS]

  mom never recognize is why we can't have [TS]

  nice cones right [TS]

  my mom would buy me one of those combs [TS]

  that you would find in a men's room more [TS]

  than once they were like that would [TS]

  break [TS]

  oh yeah you know in a jar of a light [TS]

  blue just an actor I'm not gonna carry [TS]

  one of those around us that we secure it [TS]

  comes to carry come around he does that [TS]

  yea big come with the handle sticking [TS]

  out and come on the one hand the [TS]

  Cincinnati school system was a risk [TS]

  because it was terrific i mean you know [TS]

  is maybe this might have just been the [TS]

  time and the place but whatever any case [TS]

  i can say is that making the jump to [TS]

  then going to public school in Florida [TS]

  was a was a very different thing and [TS]

  I've said this numerous times in the [TS]

  past and i don't mean to be disparaging [TS]

  because it's hard to do things but we [TS]

  had a single vocational wheel a [TS]

  generally anything like this but in sin [TS]

  ti I don't think we did I love that I [TS]

  love it so far [TS]

  okay well this is this is a you know as [TS]

  you like to say the sun coast of florida [TS]

  in nineteen so I didn't go to seventh [TS]

  grade in public schools but those who [TS]

  did go to grips of sounds great in the [TS]

  junior high school so its seventh the [TS]

  ninth grade you have all these [TS]

  vocational tracks you have you how you [TS]

  can take a health class you can take on [TS]

  marketing you can take graphic arts or [TS]

  that's called drafting back then you can [TS]

  take wood shop you can take metal shop [TS]

  and so on and so forth and those were [TS]

  really like you by eighth grade when I [TS]

  went there you had to take at least one [TS]

  of these trade classes now the year that [TS]

  i missed the year before every seventh [TS]

  grader in at least in pasco county had [TS]

  to go through some of the complications [TS]

  wheel which is where you spent two weeks [TS]

  in each other vocational classes [TS]

  Oh which on the one hand is a pretty [TS]

  brilliant idea because it's it's nice to [TS]

  have exposure to all those who make a [TS]

  lamp you make a toolbox you do all that [TS]

  stuff you know you learn to sell pencils [TS]

  at the school store you learn to use a [TS]

  t-square etc etc on the face with very [TS]

  cool but I remember even then having the [TS]

  feeling that I later greatly expanded as [TS]

  I got older that you start we have the I [TS]

  think we all have that day it comes at [TS]

  different ages but you start to realize [TS]

  wow [TS]

  schools not just about teaching me math [TS]

  and english and science you know when [TS]

  you're very young maybe you figure out [TS]

  schools kind of about teaching me to be [TS]

  places on time [TS]

  mmm stand in line but by the time it [TS]

  gets really hairy because by the time [TS]

  you get to junior high your before you [TS]

  really transition into the whole like [TS]

  your stuff you need to learn for college [TS]

  is this weird period we're almost [TS]

  everything you're exposed to in junior [TS]

  high is about following rules and not [TS]

  becoming a burden on society [TS]

  yeah I think that's kind of what it is [TS]

  and I think we don't we don't say that [TS]

  although we kind of realized that while [TS]

  place with good schools tend to have [TS]

  better results isn't that a funny [TS]

  coincidence but I just remember feeling [TS]

  at the time that like in that instance I [TS]

  you know and this is even still when we [TS]

  had music classes this isn't even still [TS]

  when we had art classes which now are [TS]

  kind of like little side things in our [TS]

  public school not like a main thing you [TS]

  don't get you don't get PE math or [TS]

  excuse me okpe art and music every day [TS]

  it's something you go and do like an [TS]

  assembly anyhow that was one thing that [TS]

  really struck me and so I mean I not [TS]

  that that's a bad thing put in a [TS]

  different way I should be feeling like [TS]

  it was like a starlet felt Stalinist in [TS]

  a sense of like everybody remember when [TS]

  we were kids and you'd say like well you [TS]

  know in the Soviet Union you get a test [TS]

  when you're 12 years old that decides [TS]

  what you do for the rest of your life [TS]

  right and i can remember feeling like [TS]

  well this test message here is like all [TS]

  the suburban kids that can pull it off [TS]

  and make it into algebra algebra algebra [TS]

  like we know they're going to be pretty [TS]

  ok we know what track their on what [TS]

  about these other kids they're not [TS]

  coming in as much like they need to [TS]

  learn how to make a toolbox sweater a [TS]

  pencil pencil holder [TS]

  yeah so anyway I don't give me thoughts [TS]

  on that but that that was a thought that [TS]

  occurred to me but the larger larger [TS]

  point I want to get the part two is and [TS]

  I'm gonna play the race card a little [TS]

  bit when we talk about things like is [TS]

  this a community that is friendly to art [TS]

  and artists is this a community where [TS]

  there's enough is enough room in the [TS]

  lower middle class for people to come in [TS]

  here without having a full-time you know [TS]

  about having a typical career bases full [TS]

  time job and do interesting things you [TS]

  know how you put a value on that what [TS]

  you're struggling with that [TS]

  how do you here's the thing though how [TS]

  do you put a value on diversity and bite [TS]

  I mean do I mean every kind of diversity [TS]

  right i think the first kind diversity [TS]

  is are you around people that are not [TS]

  your same race and gender but are you [TS]

  also around are you around people that [TS]

  are different differing economic classes [TS]

  and backgrounds have more locked in or [TS]

  less locked in futures you know what i [TS]

  mean and i guess i feel like in this in [TS]

  the same way maybe as the artist issue [TS]

  is this deeper issue of well we don't [TS]

  really notice diversity until it's gone [TS]

  until it's quote-unquote like under [TS]

  control but i can tell you times the [TS]

  donuts that moving to this town has a [TS]

  white guy in a nation neighborhood in [TS]

  1999 they were a lot more black people [TS]

  living in the entire Bay Area I mean [TS]

  they're still people in oakland but [TS]

  knowing you know less let's get this get [TS]

  more expensive too but like the the [TS]

  diversity is people at the money can [TS]

  afford to come in [TS]

  okay i'm gonna be kind of simple for a [TS]

  minute but the people who can afford to [TS]

  come in push-up the other people and now [TS]

  it is why people pushing out why people [TS]

  like it's becoming and you know any of [TS]

  the any of the weather your personal [TS]

  color or not but it is the appt class is [TS]

  moving in let's make no mistake about it [TS]

  its people in finance and people in [TS]

  ventura county funded companies and big [TS]

  corporations but it is certainly not [TS]

  becoming more interesting and it's [TS]

  certainly not becoming more diverse and [TS]

  it's certainly it's a lot of people who [TS]

  are doing things like making the house [TS]

  that somebody else was thrown out of [TS]

  turns into a condo and now the [TS]

  restaurants the bars around there get [TS]

  much moved out because they're making [TS]

  too much noise and so I don't have a [TS]

  unified field theory here but like in [TS]

  the same way i've seen this in with work [TS]

  I've done in the past there was a time [TS]

  when the value of user experience [TS]

  was thought of as just you know spray on [TS]

  usability you just go in and make some [TS]

  changes blah blah you guys go do your [TS]

  coloring and now you realize you don't [TS]

  understand this [TS]

  the difference being a good experience [TS]

  with an airline a bad experience with an [TS]

  airline even just based on their website [TS]

  will completely change your feeling [TS]

  about the company you're feeling if [TS]

  you're if you are an artist and a person [TS]

  of color and you come into a town you're [TS]

  gonna know in 10 minutes how welcome you [TS]

  are there and whether that's a place [TS]

  where you can make a life so I don't [TS]

  know how you quantify that except by [TS]

  saying having that having some kind of [TS]

  diversity as much as the economy and the [TS]

  people compare like makes it a better [TS]

  place [TS]

  well the the the tendency are on the [TS]

  west coast and I think this is the [TS]

  tendency increasingly everywhere is to [TS]

  practice liberalism in a in a very sort [TS]

  of well to practice lip-service [TS]

  liberalism right and what that ends up [TS]

  looking like is that diversity is [TS]

  welcomed as long as it's within the well [TS]

  as long as it's within the confines of [TS]

  bourgeois values and culture right so we [TS]

  welcome all people into our bushwa [TS]

  envelope of values what we do not [TS]

  understand how to do is to provide [TS]

  opportunities for people who are not [TS]

  trying to who you know who are trying to [TS]

  move into a booj wall state but who are [TS]

  at literally struggling to survive or [TS]

  literally struggling to just you know to [TS]

  remain right just to remain in place and [TS]

  not be displaced from their own homes [TS]

  and communities and so Seattle has a has [TS]

  a great record of diversity in [TS]

  government diversity and you know in in [TS]

  the in like public hiring and I mean we [TS]

  we have tried and tried and tried to [TS]

  live up to our own standards [TS]

  but we still don't understand how [TS]

  important it is that neighborhoods [TS]

  remain intact or that they're you know [TS]

  that for a young white artists living on [TS]

  Capitol Hill the experiences incredibly [TS]

  different than that from that of a young [TS]

  black artist living in the central [TS]

  district and you know that that feeling [TS]

  of like great work comes from being [TS]

  backed into a corner but there's a [TS]

  certain point where you're backed into [TS]

  the corner and and either under threat [TS]

  of violence or just right you can't you [TS]

  know like there is no corner for you [TS]

  because it's um you know you're backed [TS]

  into an i think that distinction is [TS]

  utterly lost on some people that there [TS]

  is a distinction between having a place [TS]

  where you can struggle to make friends [TS]

  don't make it and a place where the [TS]

  typical rent is five times what anybody [TS]

  could ever scrape together [TS]

  yeah really big difference and and just [TS]

  you know I think a lot of a lot of white [TS]

  kids who are making art and music like [TS]

  schlep around in the town and they you [TS]

  know and they they walked from dark [TS]

  doorway to dark doorway and they feel [TS]

  like they are living a rough and and [TS]

  living a dangerous downtown life and [TS]

  that informs their art and character but [TS]

  when the police slowly cruise by and [TS]

  look them up and down and they stand [TS]

  there in their dark door when they go on [TS]

  man the fucking cops just scoped me fuck [TS]

  those guys [TS]

  the difference is that they kept the [TS]

  cops kept driving right they scoped them [TS]

  they gave him a dirty look [TS]

  scumbags and but they kept driving and [TS]

  the and the young white artist feels [TS]

  like oh you know i'm i'm the grit of the [TS]

  city is really informing my views and [TS]

  I'm going to take that back to the art [TS]

  that I'm making that basically coops the [TS]

  history of jazz and hip-hop and I'm [TS]

  gonna that's gonna be some meaty you [TS]

  know gnarly shit [TS]

  well the you know the young black guy in [TS]

  the same exact situation who is probably [TS]

  actively trying to stay out of dark [TS]

  doorways a the cops roll by and turn on [TS]

  their flashers and and pull [TS]

  over and and ask for his ID and where [TS]

  does he live and what's he doing out [TS]

  right and that little bit of difference [TS]

  is the thing that you know you hear [TS]

  reported over and over and and yet it's [TS]

  very it's impossible to know how that [TS]

  changes your feeling when you are backed [TS]

  into a corner in your own art making [TS]

  when you are you know when you're poor [TS]

  and and are struggling and and saying to [TS]

  yourself [TS]

  can I even be an artist can I even make [TS]

  this stuff i need to do it but i also [TS]

  have to survive and you know and that [TS]

  that decision making and that's that and [TS]

  that what ends up happening is that that [TS]

  you do have a an increasingly bushwa art [TS]

  culture where the people who are able to [TS]

  make it through are the ones that in [TS]

  that moment can call their folks and say [TS]

  can you cover my rent this month or you [TS]

  know and that's not that's not a slight [TS]

  on anybody it's just that you there are [TS]

  so many people have to drop out at that [TS]

  moment right then and there not making [TS]

  things then and they are embittered and [TS]

  rightfully so and having that [TS]

  conversation with with the city at large [TS]

  particularly in a world where people [TS]

  want to say look the market is the [TS]

  market it's it's just what it is it's [TS]

  not a there's no malice attached to it [TS]

  it's just a natural system that's a [TS]

  privileged well and and and in a way [TS]

  like I mean I hear that from from all [TS]

  walks of life the idea that we have set [TS]

  in motion a system which is organic that [TS]

  the market is just humans and the end [TS]

  its and in a way it's just it's just a [TS]

  language we've given ourselves to [TS]

  express our natural desire to trade who [TS]

  or whatever and so this you know this [TS]

  rampant and and at with no awareness or [TS]

  less awareness of the fact that it's the [TS]

  the market is rigged all every step of [TS]

  the way that that's what I mean when I [TS]

  say privilege I didn't mean to use that [TS]

  the code word but you know I'm becoming [TS]

  more I guess sensitive in some ways to [TS]

  that in myself and in singing in others [TS]

  but in the case of somebody who's that [TS]

  economically privileged you know folks [TS]

  with a lot of money biggest problem they [TS]

  face is losing some of their lot of [TS]

  money so in a down economy where things [TS]

  go wrong so in and up economy they get [TS]

  to go hey hey market right and you say [TS]

  well of course this is the market to [TS]

  market is a market because I'm just [TS]

  benefiting from this completely natural [TS]

  thing because we can all agree on cheese [TS]

  this is what the market is the market is [TS]

  that I get lots of money because things [TS]

  are going great right and then when [TS]

  things go less great they still can find [TS]

  a way to get by and that's not because [TS]

  they're brilliant is because they have [TS]

  lots of money and connections and but [TS]

  that is even though that is the elephant [TS]

  in the room [TS]

  you sound like a conspiratorial nut when [TS]

  you try to point that out to somebody [TS]

  because everybody thinks their life is [TS]

  hard it is everybody's life is hard its [TS]

  way right I'm gonna be you know inhumane [TS]

  about it but it is it's a little [TS]

  disingenuous to call it just the market [TS]

  when there's all kinds of things like me [TS]

  might be getting subsidies or tax [TS]

  credits all these different kinds of [TS]

  ways that you can you can game the [TS]

  system and then still call it the market [TS]

  what's its that's not that's not the [TS]

  market [TS]

  I mean the market is you go down and try [TS]

  to find fresh food in your neighborhood [TS]

  where there's no groceries that's what [TS]

  the market is the market is you go to [TS]

  7-eleven by a brown banana for two [TS]

  dollars that's the market brown banana [TS]

  that was a great movie that is that the [TS]

  one with the chloe sevigny Chloe quote [TS]

  closets starts jolie show they [TS]

  accidentally a ceviche you see that [TS]

  scene I never did know it's hard to [TS]

  watch [TS]

  ya know I wasn't interested it's not you [TS]

  not my stuff what'swhat's really curious [TS]

  to me lately you know the last week or [TS]

  two has been really hard for me i've [TS]

  been i've had a you know a lot of [TS]

  anxiety a feeling that I'm that I'm [TS]

  behind the eight ball and running to [TS]

  catch up and you know maybe [TS]

  coincidentally a lot of the people that [TS]

  were my room my real brain trust all [TS]

  took vacations all at once and so I [TS]

  recognized how important it is for me to [TS]

  sit just sit with friends and talk about [TS]

  what's going on when they [TS]

  these are really going on and I was [TS]

  feeling very alone and and i was i'm [TS]

  going through this process of fulfilling [TS]

  the you know for checking off the boxes [TS]

  that a candidate for public office has [TS]

  to have to do you know fulfill bees [TS]

  these obligations and it's a it's a it's [TS]

  been an incredible learning experience [TS]

  because we talk about you and I we talk [TS]

  about conspiracy a lot or the the sense [TS]

  that a lot of people have that that the [TS]

  system's rigged or game door that there [TS]

  is mountains and about the reality that [TS]

  like giving human nature how relatively [TS]

  few things ever even could be a [TS]

  conspiracy and what ends up happening so [TS]

  so what I've been going through is every [TS]

  I don't mean to say going through like [TS]

  it's a you know like I have like I'm [TS]

  going through chemo but like every [TS]

  legislative district in the city has its [TS]

  own democratic party organization and [TS]

  those party organizations have you know [TS]

  there's a there's a chairperson [TS]

  secretary sergeant-at-arms there are [TS]

  there are rank-and-file of different you [TS]

  know [TS]

  LD oohs and all these different jobs [TS]

  that people have and it's a it's a it's [TS]

  a form of organization of voluntary [TS]

  organization that that people love to do [TS]

  it right it they these groups are [TS]

  exactly like a lot of people I met in [TS]

  rock-and-roll who love to talk about the [TS]

  liner notes on records they're like [TS]

  walks there walks right and so there are [TS]

  there are so many more people who like [TS]

  to talk about records then there are [TS]

  people who make records right and and as [TS]

  a music-maker I I never fully understood [TS]

  the dough the record store maven I and I [TS]

  know a lot of musicians who are also [TS]

  record store mavens but for the most [TS]

  part like the people who sit and collect [TS]

  records who consume music in that way [TS]

  but who think about like who the [TS]

  original bass player was what the studio [TS]

  Rapinoe like what the b-side was what [TS]

  label it was on all that collecting and [TS]

  churning of information cattle [TS]

  cataloging librarian that librarian [TS]

  impulse that we have ya in rock and roll [TS]

  and there are people like that in the [TS]

  nerd world there are but you know the [TS]

  tech world there are people it's like [TS]

  words yeah right [TS]

  ultimate expression of it i mean like [TS]

  even like when I was a little kid I was [TS]

  I was more into like things like [TS]

  statistics in the baseball cards in the [TS]

  averages in the on-base percentages and [TS]

  stuff and I wasn't actually watching a [TS]

  game [TS]

  yeah right i would say with dnd there's [TS]

  there's people who are just into this [TS]

  the culture and Walker e of it and so so [TS]

  there there's a huge community of people [TS]

  in politics who have that same impulse [TS]

  that same desire to get together and [TS]

  that then and there the language that [TS]

  they get to use is Robert's Rules of [TS]

  Order which feels very you know which is [TS]

  official feeling and powerful and they [TS]

  have jobs in the Democratic Party is a [TS]

  is actually the one of two parties in [TS]

  America that ever has power so so they [TS]

  feel empowered right there part of their [TS]

  part of a big operation and so people [TS]

  run for office and they need to go [TS]

  around and meet these Democratic [TS]

  district organizations talk to them and [TS]

  earn their endorsement and you see it [TS]

  you see this go down right everybody has [TS]

  all the time in the world and they don't [TS]

  they have the time maybe to read your [TS]

  thing but they don't really have the [TS]

  time to sit with you for half an hour [TS]

  and talk to you and so what they do is [TS]

  invite all the candidates to come in [TS]

  each person gets to speak for one minute [TS]

  and then the the group of people who [TS]

  have come to the this meeting vote [TS]

  on them and how like how it's really [TS]

  this is that simple [TS]

  horse horse flesh and so you so part of [TS]

  running for office is you have to [TS]

  running for office is you have to [TS]

  able to go into a room and in one minute [TS]

  layout you order your plan for [TS]

  government but for an entire city [TS]

  yeah but you don't get a whole minute [TS]

  you get a minute huh [TS]

  and then based on that and when and you [TS]

  know and whatever research the people in [TS]

  the room have done independently then [TS]

  they decided to endorse you or not and [TS]

  that endorsement is either valuable or [TS]

  not depending on how many of them you [TS]

  can rack up and whether or not you're [TS]

  running as an insider and outsider you [TS]

  know it's but but the candidates [TS]

  I mean nobody has time to sit and talk [TS]

  to the candidates for 30 minutes but the [TS]

  candidates have to run all around town [TS]

  and all basically together in a pack IC [TS]

  IC the people i'm running against now [TS]

  every day and we're all standing there [TS]

  giving our one-minute speech and we [TS]

  don't we're not really inclined to be [TS]

  chummy with each other we are complete [TS]

  competing but really where the only [TS]

  other people that know what this feels [TS]

  like [TS]

  so you stand there and you look at the [TS]

  you look at your opponent with I mean I [TS]

  i look at them with sympathy in my eyes [TS]

  and just go like how you holding up you [TS]

  know is everything fine and they kind of [TS]

  just give me the like uncomfortable like [TS]

  oh hello weird handshake and I'm like [TS]

  seriously though I mean this is really [TS]

  hard and they're like mmm and then they [TS]

  get up and make the Clinton thumb and [TS]

  give the speech and and i give this i [TS]

  give my you know I can't have very still [TS]

  distant still working on them because [TS]

  still doesn't like to give a wonderful [TS]

  learning the chorus [TS]

  yeah and-and-and I watch it and i think [TS]

  from the outside [TS]

  this seems like a conspiracy right you [TS]

  have to do these things these people are [TS]

  all insiders they are you know the the [TS]

  logic of it from outside the system is [TS]

  there just voting for their friends no [TS]

  new blood can never get through here you [TS]

  know this is how we think of the [TS]

  political system right yeah but from [TS]

  inside it I see like what a hodgepodge [TS]

  of accident it is you know and how this [TS]

  is a these meetings are kind of like a [TS]

  vestigial version of the town meetings [TS]

  of old New England you know then and and [TS]

  the people there are really proud of [TS]

  participating in the democratic process [TS]

  and the degree to which this isn't very [TS]

  democratic and all and then ultimately [TS]

  the decision is being made by a vote of [TS]

  25 people whether or not to endorse one [TS]

  of these candidates and 25 people or [TS]

  however many voting not to be too [TS]

  dismissive but really based on like at [TS]

  who presents well given the context menu [TS]

  that's a microcosm of a much bigger dog [TS]

  and pony show but really to decide that [TS]

  based on [TS]

  I mean is it really just that appearance [TS]

  there's no like white paper or anything [TS]

  like that you just go in like that how [TS]

  they like the horse flash after 60 [TS]

  seconds they can you know they can go [TS]

  online and do as much research as they [TS]

  want but there but that's not it does [TS]

  not appear to meet some of the people [TS]

  know but some of them are just this is [TS]

  there this is their moment and that [TS]

  moment that one minute of you speaking [TS]

  to them is more than most voters know [TS]

  about candidates right yeah most voters [TS]

  do not even see a minute of them and so [TS]

  it does not like so many things in [TS]

  public life it doesn't feel like a [TS]

  conspiracy once you're there but the end [TS]

  result of it looks like the product of a [TS]

  conspiracy because the only people that [TS]

  really can make it all the way through [TS]

  this hazing and make it you know and and [TS]

  go through all of these things and do [TS]

  this effectively are people who are [TS]

  either very practiced in the art of it [TS]

  or who have a lot of pre-existing [TS]

  relationships with those 25 people in [TS]

  the room because they are longtime [TS]

  democratic party our operatives [TS]

  themselves or people who have enough [TS]

  money that they can bypass that process [TS]

  entirely and appeal directly to the [TS]

  people with like i'll buy the world a [TS]

  coke vote for me and it's [TS]

  fascinating to see like I wouldn't even [TS]

  describe the process has broken its just [TS]

  built its just built out of its like so [TS]

  it's like all those buildings in Greece [TS]

  where people were you know people in 400 [TS]

  AD or like we need to build a house [TS]

  let's go take some of those rocks from [TS]

  the foundation of that old building and [TS]

  they rebuilt the house out of blocks [TS]

  from the Parthenon and then that house [TS]

  burned down and somebody said let's take [TS]

  those old burn rocks and build a fence [TS]

  out of them and pretty soon you know [TS]

  somebody added onto the fence and it [TS]

  became a little bit of a castle and then [TS]

  they put people on it and called it a [TS]

  church and it's like it now we walk in [TS]

  and it's a cellphone store on the [TS]

  outskirts of Athens and you're like wow [TS]

  this cell phone store is really [TS]

  interesting and you know I don't up at [TS]

  the bottom there are blocks from the [TS]

  Parthenon and that that and being part [TS]

  of that processes is thrilling and an [TS]

  interesting but it's like it is really [TS]

  impenetrable and has been and is an [TS]

  exhausting and also is like it's causing [TS]

  my stomach to churn all the time because [TS]

  that reformer in me and I listened to [TS]

  people all around me say like we need [TS]

  reform up but they don't but they don't [TS]

  even appear to stew to recognize like [TS]

  like ruffle reform who would how would [TS]

  you even begin like all of these all the [TS]

  people in these meetings are like they [TS]

  really are doing there that they are [TS]

  participating with good intent with the [TS]

  best intentions and it's so crazy how [TS]

  how large groups of people all working [TS]

  with the best intentions can produce [TS]

  results that are so far from what we [TS]

  would have met [TS]

  engine were where our best effort [TS]

  through I guess is that is what is what [TS]

  becomes like so clear and why I mean [TS]

  every single person i've met on the [TS]

  campaign trail I haven't met a single [TS]

  contemptible person they're all they're [TS]

  all really interested and really trying [TS]

  to make a difference and you know they [TS]

  have varying ideas and ideologies but [TS]

  they're all people of good will from [TS]

  across the whole spectrum of people and [TS]

  yet they are complicit everyday in these [TS]

  small incremental compromises that are [TS]

  not compromises of like well that's a [TS]

  good idea and that's a good idea let's [TS]

  compromise their compromises like well [TS]

  what can we get done in a minute and you [TS]

  know and what and you know and we've got [TS]

  four more of these to do today so you [TS]

  know that kind of stuff we're just like [TS]

  well we're building this is we're [TS]

  actually building a civilization out of [TS]

  these parts out of these 1-minute [TS]

  increments and that's hard to explain in [TS]

  a minute [TS]

  it's very hard to explain in a minute I [TS]

  think I probably just took at least four [TS]

  maybe that's what this is for this is [TS]

  your this is your venue for that but you [TS]

  know it's your it's frank is I think I [TS]

  think of the way what it's like to be a [TS]

  candidate right and it seems like a big [TS]

  part of it is you know people are gonna [TS]

  expect as I've always guests anyway all [TS]

  along is that like the sort of [TS]

  customer's always right approach of like [TS]

  you gotta listen and you know so forth [TS]

  and they you know add something I think [TS]

  you and I share is that sometimes we [TS]

  reject the argument somebody wants to [TS]

  have because we can't agree on the terms [TS]

  of the argument like I can't argue with [TS]

  that about that because you're trying to [TS]

  rig this and like in order for me to [TS]

  have this argument with you we would [TS]

  first have to have a pre argument right [TS]

  tell you why I disagree on the terms of [TS]

  what you're saying and I might be able [TS]

  to propose a better argument for me to [TS]

  have the first have to do you know what [TS]

  I mean [TS]

  mhm I think that's at that must be [TS]

  incredibly frustrating because I i feel [TS]

  i do that all the time also hey wait a [TS]

  minute you would have argued about this [TS]

  thing and it is making sense we we've [TS]

  got to have a better argument than this [TS]

  but let's let's have let's have it let's [TS]

  have an honest [TS]

  normal discussion about something but it [TS]

  cannot be [TS]

  thanks for trying to say is if people [TS]

  come to you and they present you with [TS]

  some kind of half banana balls idea [TS]

  about like how the world is you know how [TS]

  do you respond to that without sounding [TS]

  like you're pushing back [TS]

  yeah or or even if somebody is [TS]

  good-hearted saying like we need reform [TS]

  and you're like okay we'll give me an [TS]

  idea what reform looks like right and [TS]

  and and everybody has a different sense [TS]

  of what the problem is i mean this we're [TS]

  having this huge argument in the city [TS]

  right now about like about rent control [TS]

  and there are people of very good will [TS]

  who really want to help people who [TS]

  believe that rent control is like a [TS]

  two-word solution to a pic because retro [TS]

  because rent control but a two-word [TS]

  solution to it to it to a huge and that [TS]

  is far-reaching spiderweb of of a of a [TS]

  of a condition even not even a problem a [TS]

  condition that produces innumerable [TS]

  problems and you know and they stand up [TS]

  and say rent control and people [TS]

  applauded and you go okay well um and [TS]

  and what you find on the campaign trail [TS]

  as you as you're going along and you [TS]

  hear people applauded as he says here [TS]

  she says rent control over and over and [TS]

  I see other candidates start to you know [TS]

  get to the end of their speech and say [TS]

  oh and also rent control and hope in the [TS]

  hopes that they can get an applause and [TS]

  then you know and then that starts to [TS]

  feel like wow there's a broad movement [TS]

  for this and there isn't really no one's [TS]

  taking the time to really think about it [TS]

  I mean the people who are who are who [TS]

  are promoting it have thought about it [TS]

  they I in my opinion haven't thought [TS]

  about it a lot of other things but they [TS]

  thought about that and I mean it's like [TS]

  it's like when I was 24 I remember [TS]

  feeling like well if you know if uh if [TS]

  no one had ID then we wouldn't even need [TS]

  IDs who uh whatever right [TS]

  it's like the those of the solution to [TS]

  the problem is always so simple until [TS]

  you a [TS]

  look at the the effects of it and the [TS]

  bend the incumbent in my race is he is [TS]

  saying in every instance it's too [TS]

  complicated to explain right now and so [TS]

  he's doing a very bad job of [TS]

  communicating to people that it's [TS]

  complicated because he is he's being [TS]

  caught he's doing that condescending [TS]

  thing of people who do see how [TS]

  complicated it is they don't but they [TS]

  don't find a way to say like here here [TS]

  here are the top here that he hears the [TS]

  idea right you don't need and i think i [TS]

  think because because the tendency in [TS]

  this game is to say like is to speak in [TS]

  bullet points so it's like 12345 here [TS]

  are the 5 things and that's not an [TS]

  effective way of communicating the idea [TS]

  and under an effective way to do it is [TS]

  actually with metaphor you know is it's [TS]

  it's much easier to say like well how do [TS]

  I explain what being in politics is like [TS]

  it's like being it's like playing [TS]

  fantasy football in a way you're dealing [TS]

  with people who have never played or [TS]

  probably never played professional [TS]

  football but who are experts at the game [TS]

  of numbers football right [TS]

  Wow okay that is pretty good right and [TS]

  that is that's a metaphor to explain [TS]

  what I could have try could have [TS]

  struggled and failed to explain about [TS]

  politics using five actual facts about [TS]

  it and that's true in civic life to [TS]

  people are like trying to explain things [TS]

  using statistics and actual facts about [TS]

  things that are that are actually pretty [TS]

  apprehended below by normal people if [TS]

  you just say you know what this is like [TS]

  this is like a basketball game where [TS]

  everybody is on a unicycle and people go [TS]

  oh I can picture that it is kinda like [TS]

  that [TS]

  yeah the basketball game where everybody [TS]

  is on either cycle and most of them [TS]

  don't know how to ride a unicycle so up [TS]

  and and I think the best i think the [TS]

  best people in public life have that [TS]

  have that ability and it isn't it isn't [TS]

  wrong [TS]

  more untrustworthy to use metaphor to [TS]

  explain things it is you know and and [TS]

  you hear it all the time you campaign in [TS]

  poetry government pros but I feel like [TS]

  you need to [TS]

  that's good I like that right but I feel [TS]

  like you also can govern in poetry a [TS]

  little bit and and and part of that is [TS]

  the outreach you have to sit in the [TS]

  meeting and listen to all the data and [TS]

  synthesize and make decisions but then [TS]

  when you take that back out to the [TS]

  people and say here's what we decided [TS]

  that's another opportunity to your not [TS]

  campaigning then but you are speaking in [TS]

  poetry to people and I think there would [TS]

  be a lot more people would feel that was [TS]

  more transparency in government and they [TS]

  would feel like it was less [TS]

  conspiratorial if they weren't if they [TS]

  weren't buried under statistics when [TS]

  really statistics are bad and explaining [TS]

  things online statistics can also just [TS]

  become a different kind of analogy in [TS]

  some ways I mean you can you come home [TS]

  banging the facts to look like anything [TS]

  you want depending on we know what data [TS]

  show you set your show or or or how you [TS]

  show it [TS]

  it's just it feels real it feels like it [TS]

  feels like real arithmetic when you're [TS]

  using numbers no apparent reason I don't [TS]

  know why I keep laughing I keep victim [TS]

  so much would you talk about keep down a [TS]

  few ever were a simpsons fan but the [TS]

  episode kinda based on the music man [TS]

  where the guy comes to sound town and [TS]

  with the cell springfield monorail and [TS]

  his entry as he walks into the room and [TS]

  he goes you know I town with money is [TS]

  like a mule with a spinning wheel [TS]

  no one knows how he got it and dang if [TS]

  he knows how to use it [TS]

  fuck up yeah right hey I yes I guess [TS]

  shut up and take my money and I think [TS]

  you know I think about junior high all [TS]

  the time [TS]

  me too well I know I know we both do and [TS]

  I know that there's a there's a big part [TS]

  of uh of our listenership degrees with [TS]

  us in principle that junior high should [TS]

  be reformed but I I think about i think [TS]

  about walking into junior high [TS]

  and you know at that age I was kind of [TS]

  shaped like a dim sum and sorry it's a [TS]

  minute feeling sick you don't like a [TS]

  pork but I was shaped a little bit like [TS]

  a shoe my I had a fire kind of a frilly [TS]

  edge and then you know that I was big [TS]

  money big party center as porky like a [TS]

  little porky only on the outside part a [TS]

  small this garbage can shaped port on [TS]

  your pocket [TS]

  uh and but i but i was also I was [TS]

  entering puberty rites all of a sudden I [TS]

  was producing all this dander and like [TS]

  us [TS]

  eczema and emotionally I was still child [TS]

  food but I was having feelings that I [TS]

  had never had before [TS]

  so here i am a little i'm a little by [TS]

  little dumpling little shumai in my [TS]

  school and and and like my body is just [TS]

  extruding things that I don't want in it [TS]

  basically just essential oils just [TS]

  pouring out of me and I'm having all [TS]

  these intense feelings about everything [TS]

  better not feeling a lot of feelings [TS]

  yeah a lot of feelings and the other [TS]

  kids in the school are all going through [TS]

  this stuff at different rates some of [TS]

  the guys in the school were already men [TS]

  who could grow mustaches and had muscles [TS]

  and some of them were like me just like [TS]

  pupa and then a you know like the [TS]

  teenage girls also on a wide spectrum of [TS]

  where they were on that on their [TS]

  transition to adulthood and how cruel [TS]

  they were prepared to be to each other [TS]

  and to me and what they what happened in [TS]

  the school portion was a on the first [TS]

  day of my honors english class the [TS]

  teacher said in grade school you are [TS]

  allowed to write in pencil but now [TS]

  you're in junior high and we are [TS]

  preparing you for high school which is a [TS]

  bit [TS]

  big deal and so in preparation for high [TS]

  school [TS]

  you now have to write all your papers in [TS]

  pen and if you write a paper and pencil [TS]

  that you will get an F Wow and this was [TS]

  the beginning that this was in fact i [TS]

  think the first my first year of junior [TS]

  high was also the first year coincided [TS]

  with the first year of erasable pens [TS]

  oh yeah I remember the pic erasable pen [TS]

  eraser mate right wasn't whatever i do [TS]

  remember was real-like dumb kind of [TS]

  spooky like Christie kinda gummy ink and [TS]

  yeah you could erase it was erasable [TS]

  pens but they were not inexpensive and I [TS]

  had a really hard time keeping up even [TS]

  one writing implement on my person right [TS]

  i just i would get done riding a thing [TS]

  and i would put the pen down and I would [TS]

  forget to pick it up or I don't know [TS]

  where I don't know how I lost so many [TS]

  pens and so many pencils so i was never [TS]

  able to even I didn't feel like I even [TS]

  had control over my possession of any [TS]

  kind of implement but i could not get my [TS]

  head around writing my report and pen [TS]

  I don't even like yeah i'm i'm trying to [TS]

  think back well why do you think you [TS]

  know partly it felt just like a punitive [TS]

  rule i look in our language arbitrary [TS]

  just an arbitrary rule [TS]

  yeah yeah partly because when I was you [TS]

  know like when i would get an idea I [TS]

  wanted to write something i would grab [TS]

  the thing that was nearest me and I had [TS]

  a lot of pencils and very few pens [TS]

  I don't know honestly why but I kept [TS]

  writing reports sometimes 23 page [TS]

  reports because that you're in seventh [TS]

  grade now you have to write you know [TS]

  you're going to write a report on world [TS]

  war two it's gonna be three pages long [TS]

  and i would write them in pencil on hand [TS]

  and get an F and I got F's until the [TS]

  school agreed that I didn't belong in [TS]

  honors english and nobody was reading my [TS]

  papers they were just the teacher was [TS]

  just giving me an F because i had [TS]

  failed to follow the role and my [TS]

  personal experience of walking around [TS]

  the school is that I'm also being [TS]

  taunted and tormented and you know and [TS]

  being forced to take showers with other [TS]

  boys and you know and I have strong [TS]

  feelings for everybody and they are you [TS]

  know and they have also equally strong [TS]

  feelings for me mostly that i am a that [TS]

  I am a dancer recovered homunculus and [TS]

  yet the adults in that situation wanted [TS]

  me to write in pen and I either couldn't [TS]

  or refuse to and got F's until they sent [TS]

  me down [TS]

  they sent me down to regular English the [TS]

  class that you're describing where it's [TS]

  like well some of these kids in this [TS]

  school the ones in Honors English are [TS]

  going to go on to college and then [TS]

  there's regular English where you know [TS]

  some of you may go to a college and some [TS]

  of its not remedial English where you [TS]

  know you're never going to get a college [TS]

  but you know you're down here in the mix [TS]

  now with the with the normals and good [TS]

  luck and i was so you know I was like I [TS]

  was so astonished and and surprised no [TS]

  one has ever suggested that i would be [TS]

  that that I would be a regular right and [TS]

  I was backed into a corner and worked [TS]

  and worked and worked that quarter and [TS]

  you know just set the curve in that [TS]

  class until the teacher of the normal [TS]

  english class went to down to the [TS]

  principal and said please take him out [TS]

  of my class it's um he just like he's he [TS]

  requires too much attention and so they [TS]

  took me out of that class there was [TS]

  nowhere else for me to go and so they [TS]

  put me back in honors and told that [TS]

  teacher to just deal with it and she [TS]

  dealt with it by giving me addy [TS]

  instead of enough that was ok so there [TS]

  you go it's all worked out by fig so I [TS]

  you know so I gamed the system now if [TS]

  you can imagine you know and I i don't i [TS]

  don't know how many people listen to [TS]

  this podcast were also flops right [TS]

  growing up but if you can imagine the [TS]

  pressure on a thirteen-year-old or [TS]

  twelve-year-old like what what a bunch [TS]

  of F's on a report rhapsodies her feel [TS]

  like when you're also trying to not [TS]

  explode every day when you're basically [TS]

  like a water balloon filled with oil and [TS]

  covered with hair and skin flakes and [TS]

  you're already just barely keeping it [TS]

  together just barely making it [TS]

  yeah and you know and what you want is [TS]

  just somebody to tell you you're okay [TS]

  and you're gonna be okay and you don't [TS]

  need to learn you don't need to write a [TS]

  three-page port report about world war [TS]

  two you don't need to learn you you know [TS]

  like you should be you should basically [TS]

  just be the first of all allowed to [TS]

  sleep 211 in the morning and second of [TS]

  all you know just like put into us into [TS]

  a soothing room with soft pillows and [TS]

  and given like music and film [TS]

  appreciation classes right that would be [TS]

  those would be amazing junior high [TS]

  schools if you just went and took art [TS]

  appreciation classes for two years where [TS]

  you got to sit in a dark room and watch [TS]

  what it was there was a role that was [TS]

  definitely not a teacher not exactly a [TS]

  guidance counselor but more like just [TS]

  like in a neutral assessor with a little [TS]

  bit empathy who would just kind of see [TS]

  like what you need now it almost like a [TS]

  like a junior high concierge like [TS]

  somebody who would just go you know what [TS]

  you need a couple weeks sitting on [TS]

  beanbag chair and just watching some [TS]

  movies yeah right now it's time now it's [TS]

  time to cut trail you're ready [TS]

  how would you empower somebody to do [TS]

  that right and and knowing like the [TS]

  systems are like how would you how would [TS]

  you pick somebody that had that acumen [TS]

  train them properly convince the the [TS]

  wider world and the school district that [TS]

  that person should have that kind of [TS]

  gatekeeping power [TS]

  right right and then have the have the [TS]

  facilities waiting to receive kids at [TS]

  different levels of development [TS]

  oh it's it's a win the thing is the [TS]

  other part of it is as much as we all [TS]

  try to be what as much as we try to be [TS]

  like disinterested third parties in [TS]

  something there's something very [TS]

  difficult about like not getting heavily [TS]

  involved in something where like you [TS]

  know you get a little bit of your dick [TS]

  in the door about something and you get [TS]

  you get you want me to start feeling [TS]

  really strongly about some issue your [TS]

  feelings get hurt you don't like the way [TS]

  these kids trying to make you look bad [TS]

  you got to someone who's like the [TS]

  ultimate super adult yeah right yeah [TS]

  planning and it wouldn't be there [TS]

  wouldn't be evaluated based on test [TS]

  scores it would have to be somebody who [TS]

  mostly got you know what maybe get a [TS]

  bonus in 20 years if you're still and it [TS]

  would be like a railroad roundhouse [TS]

  right where that just the train comes in [TS]

  the Roundhouse turns and like very [TS]

  humanely putting people not not in you [TS]

  know not in the way that we do it now [TS]

  which is like well you're on the a year [TS]

  on the shop track right here on the [TS]

  college track huh [TS]

  but rather like you need to listen to [TS]

  music right now and you need exercise [TS]

  and no and you know what a godsend that [TS]

  would be you need to dance you know like [TS]

  their everyday there's a moment with my [TS]

  daughter I'm like you know what you need [TS]

  to do it right now is dance because you [TS]

  just need 20 minutes of game you need to [TS]

  do that and she's just like wow dance [TS]

  and it just goes and it's like thank god [TS]

  there's dancing yeah right and what and [TS]

  what kind of and the things you couldn't [TS]

  build that he couldn't build that idea [TS]

  the way we typically build ideas which [TS]

  is on the burned-out blocks of the [TS]

  Parthenon you would have to build value [TS]

  idea from the vision backwards [TS]

  alright see it and reverse-engineer it [TS]

  and it because i think that is the [TS]

  experience the kids have it expensive [TS]

  private schools because they have there [TS]

  are there are people there who are being [TS]

  paid to take that kind of of [TS]

  of like structuring gentle hand with [TS]

  their charges but like how would we how [TS]

  we introduce that kind of thinking to [TS]

  the city at large and you know up [TS]

  against all these people like what kind [TS]

  of job training is that got you get your [TS]

  jobs heart now imagine being that person [TS]

  who like who wants to introduce the [TS]

  junior high concierge maybe they can be [TS]

  sponsored hmm maybe I guess I guess you [TS]

  know what we'll call it the LinkedIn [TS]

  concierge service at a horrible baby [TS]

  ok that was a bad idea if you read in a [TS]

  student guidance program but you know [TS]

  it's just it's just so much about [TS]

  education that is so shhh it's like [TS]

  always like a road system right the road [TS]

  system works a certain way we realize we [TS]

  need a wider roads we made wider roads [TS]

  you made more of those roads we made [TS]

  overpasses and underpasses we have [TS]

  really fundamentally rethought the road [TS]

  as a thing in a really long time we [TS]

  talked about this alive and that's kind [TS]

  of how i feel about schools I mean thank [TS]

  God it's there and thank God for the the [TS]

  teachers I feel like I always have to [TS]

  say that that are and and parents and [TS]

  the kids and it's a great thing but it's [TS]

  really it's time for a big refresh along [TS]

  the lines of the cutting trail program [TS]

  I mean you know instead of going like [TS]

  what should you have some introduction [TS]

  with the police or should you have [TS]

  suspension or should we ignore it [TS]

  no you go cut trail that's that's that's [TS]

  a that's a thought technology because [TS]

  you're really thinking [TS]

  look we need to get outside of the [TS]

  system that we're in right now you need [TS]

  is our something to do that probably and [TS]

  that and that's what's crazy that that [TS]

  that too [TS]

  we can't get people to agree on really [TS]

  simple incremental projects but I wonder [TS]

  you know I wonder if it's possible to [TS]

  have a kind of collective czar or [TS]

  collective Pharaoh where collected fair [TS]

  a collective era where people are you [TS]

  know where people are able to be [TS]

  inspired by a vision of the future in 20 [TS]

  years [TS]

  and put aside the the normal bickering [TS]

  of like well where are the crosswalks [TS]

  gonna be well we're how is that going to [TS]

  affect my sewer service and say like can [TS]

  we all agree on a you know like and I [TS]

  know I know it's really pie-in-the-sky [TS]

  and then then we try this all the time [TS]

  but we are or more and more capable all [TS]

  the time to of both like disseminating a [TS]

  vision more broadly than we've been able [TS]

  to in the past and collecting people's [TS]

  opinions are in real time so we don't [TS]

  anymore have to say like here's the big [TS]

  project that we envisioned here is the [TS]

  bill that would enable it to pass and [TS]

  now let's put it to the voters and that [TS]

  will be in and and every once in a while [TS]

  you know we can robo call them in [TS]

  advance of the land and the people that [TS]

  have home phones that reply two poles [TS]

  will give us some sense of what how [TS]

  people feel about this right like we [TS]

  have the technology now or increasingly [TS]

  so we could reach a large population of [TS]

  people in real time and say here's you [TS]

  know like here's the project here's the [TS]

  modification of the project here's you [TS]

  know here's the the comment period is [TS]

  already closed but here is the you know [TS]

  like what do you think about this option [TS]

  versus this option and and move people [TS]

  to choose up to choose to make a big [TS]

  leap and then say alright we have chosen [TS]

  this and now reverse engineering how [TS]

  we're gonna get this done is going to be [TS]

  a separate process that isn't and it's [TS]

  going to involve some big action but [TS]

  it's under the umbrella of this thing [TS]

  we've already approved right and so you [TS]

  know we're not gonna we're not going to [TS]

  build this out of a stacked bebes we're [TS]

  gonna we're gonna build this back from [TS]

  the thing that we've all agreed is what [TS]

  we want [TS]

  I think it's did I boy this has gotta at [TS]

  some point be sort of a part of any [TS]

  political strategy against is and how [TS]

  you phrase things or how you frame [TS]

  things and damaged in your idea of [TS]

  saying like you know in some ways I [TS]

  guess I feel like if you're overly [TS]

  specific about what pointing out what [TS]

  you're doing and the context almost [TS]

  everybody's going to disagree with it [TS]

  especially if you say something like [TS]

  okay you got his but here's here's the [TS]

  answer pattern is the bad example [TS]

  ok you guys we love our educational [TS]

  system and we know how important that is [TS]

  but it's time for us to revolutionize it [TS]

  like if you put it that way people are [TS]

  gonna freak in some ways because or or [TS]

  even if you say things you get super [TS]

  specific when you get the lobby's [TS]

  involved it needs to be something that's [TS]

  so along the lines of the supertrain [TS]

  type effort would have to be something [TS]

  that's like so big that nobody would see [TS]

  it coming [TS]

  yeah and what school called some cells [TS]

  called something else yeah right yeah [TS]

  and and and uh you know and i think it [TS]

  yeah i mean there are so many examples [TS]

  of how there are so many examples of big [TS]

  projects that we have successfully build [TS]

  that we can use as as guidelines but the [TS]

  world has changed so much like [TS]

  everything such an artifact of its time [TS]

  in context [TS]

  yeah it's something everybody we know [TS]

  people like me say oh we won't have the [TS]

  Tennessee Valley Authority would be [TS]

  great if we took all these people who [TS]

  can't get jobs and got them and I'm not [TS]

  getting I'm modernizing I'm not even [TS]

  saying let's go ahead and build a dam [TS]

  I'm saying let's have them work even in [TS]

  some kind of an IT capacity or do [TS]

  something or like volunteering school [TS]

  because all these kinds of ways that you [TS]

  can do that but like that you know some [TS]

  of those biggest projects came out [TS]

  something that was really kind of a [TS]

  fluke that never happened at all [TS]

  yeah you think about what i mean in in [TS]

  living memory in in my parents lifetimes [TS]

  the government went across the nation [TS]

  and basically built enormous dams in [TS]

  every conceivable river valley where [TS]

  they could get away with it and if you [TS]

  think about what it would take now for [TS]

  somebody to come along and say this this [TS]

  unspoiled valley that's full of little [TS]

  villages and stuff we're going to build [TS]

  a dam at the end of it to capture water [TS]

  and and create power net would never you [TS]

  would be more than impossible right and [TS]

  so so there was this window of time when [TS]

  it was technologically possible to build [TS]

  giant hydroelectric dams and still [TS]

  socially possible [TS]

  and we built a bunch of them and for us [TS]

  here in Seattle like our electricity is [TS]

  cheap because of these giant dams that [TS]

  they built just in my in my father's [TS]

  lifetime that's so amazing and uh you [TS]

  know and we're and here we are right i [TS]

  mean I'm we're making this podcast using [TS]

  that power in part and so and the [TS]

  interstate highways were built in our [TS]

  lifetimes all across the country based [TS]

  on the premise and now we're not saying [TS]

  we didn't break a few eggs to get there [TS]

  sure maybe we maybe not every [TS]

  mom-and-pop motel made the cut [TS]

  we kind of tore down the Centers of [TS]

  every major American city but look at [TS]

  the roads and you know to think about [TS]

  that like after the war there was a [TS]

  sense of that that that we had progress [TS]

  the bit that the big businesses the oil [TS]

  companies and the and the automobile [TS]

  companies were like roads and and they [TS]

  did this fantastic job of convincing us [TS]

  that building roads was the pump was in [TS]

  the public's interest and they attached [TS]

  all this weird cold war spooker e to it [TS]

  and then just eminent domained huge [TS]

  neighborhoods in the centres of all of [TS]

  the towns and built giant smoky loud [TS]

  caverns chasms and now here we are in [TS]

  every day I Drive on it and and [TS]

  everybody's you know and driving on them [TS]

  couldn't do it now [TS]

  couldn't do it now not in a million [TS]

  billion years right but the next thing [TS]

  we need to build has to be on that same [TS]

  scale and it has to be better and cooler [TS]

  and conscious of the mistakes that were [TS]

  made and conscious of the fact that when [TS]

  they built the dams and they built the [TS]

  freeways they also thought they were [TS]

  doing the best thing we can there's an [TS]

  urgency I mean one of the things you [TS]

  know I know we share a love of world war [TS]

  two especially documentaries that the [TS]

  part of those things that never stops [TS]

  blowing me away with several things that [TS]

  never stopped playing away but one is [TS]

  the how quickly every country germany [TS]

  england united states how quickly they [TS]

  we were able to ramp up not just the [TS]

  military personnel but the equipment [TS]

  like how you could suddenly start [TS]

  building thousands and thousands of [TS]

  planes that quickly in the nineteen [TS]

  forties doesn't seem as if they'll be [TS]

  impossible today my dad trained my dad [TS]

  did pilot training in a biplane with [TS]

  your kidding with fabric wings no I mean [TS]

  he then the US Navy a taught him to fly [TS]

  in a by plan and by the end of the war [TS]

  which was 19 [TS]

  you know of in America 1941 245 not even [TS]

  five [TS]

  I mean not even four years really less [TS]

  than four years he went from training in [TS]

  a biplane to there being jet aircraft [TS]

  and atomic bonds and it's like that was [TS]

  amazing you guys [TS]

  hey wow I guess we really put our minds [TS]

  to it we can do some stuff she really [TS]

  nifty you know like if we hadn't had [TS]

  that war how long before we know how [TS]

  long what history of looked like in [TS]

  terms of Technology and is it is it [TS]

  gonna take another war or another Cold [TS]

  War to make us want to be innovative in [TS]

  an interesting way again i don't think [TS]

  so i hope i hope that you know I hope we [TS]

  can do it without a war i think that we [TS]

  can do it with a with like the with the [TS]

  like with the pent-up energy we have and [TS]

  unleash it in ways that are positive and [TS]

  cool i think it's speaking of positive [TS]

  haha turn this in a positive direction [TS]

  where the hell did that Bell come from [TS]

  I've never heard that before [TS]

  that's the political bell and it's time [TS]

  for us to turn to house John's campaign [TS]

  going [TS]

  may I mechanical pivot here of course so [TS]

  feel free at this point to discuss [TS]

  anything you would like about the [TS]

  campaign a question that i have probably [TS]

  a continuing question I would have is of [TS]

  course you're always welcome on your own [TS]

  program to talk about the travails I'd [TS]

  like to know what's going great and I'm [TS]

  always interested in what turned what is [TS]

  turning out better than you expected or [TS]

  hoped is there like what were you going [TS]

  like wow these people are awesome [TS]

  like is there anything happening where [TS]

  you're particularly helpful [TS]

  not just for your campaign but just for [TS]

  about the city and how things operate [TS]

  other things going on that particular [TS]

  excited about right now they're going [TS]

  better than you might have anticipated [TS]

  well uh so in the good news department i [TS]

  have been endorsed by the Sierra Club [TS]

  which is an enormous a an enormous vote [TS]

  of confidence [TS]

  the CR club had previously endorsed the [TS]

  incumbent my opponent Tim Burgess [TS]

  multiple times and they came to me and [TS]

  said you know we it is within it [TS]

  it's sort of in our charter that once we [TS]

  have endorsed somebody we don't stop [TS]

  endorsing him i said that only sensible [TS]

  that seems that would seem weird right [TS]

  we're not you know we're not trying to [TS]

  be partisan we're trying to be we're [TS]

  trying to you know have people moving in [TS]

  the right direction but they in fact [TS]

  switch to their endorsement to me so [TS]

  that is a major deal and you know what I [TS]

  have been endorsed by several of these [TS]

  Democratic Party organizations and I'm [TS]

  going this week to meet with for more [TS]

  gift for more speeches for four more [TS]

  democratic party groups and then stand [TS]

  there in my flowered hat and hope that [TS]

  they hope that I'm the mule that they [TS]

  picked Iraq haha [TS]

  hello I'm a pretty beautiful and people [TS]

  are you know people are gathering behind [TS]

  the campaign last night I went to a very [TS]

  unusual show which was Chris Novoselic [TS]

  interviewing duff mckagan about his new [TS]

  book and a very handsome photo it was a [TS]

  wasn't unusual [TS]

  it's a good-looking guy he's very there [TS]

  is very handsome and fit is fit and also [TS]

  Christmas fit [TS]

  they're both very fit and guy is really [TS]

  tall he's very tall is he always like [TS]

  6-7 he's a really big he's big and they [TS]

  invited me up at the end of the show and [TS]

  both of them said you know this is a [TS]

  great opportunity to vote for one of us [TS]

  and this and we sat on the stage and [TS]

  talked about the seattle city council [TS]

  and and they both said really kind words [TS]

  and encourage people to vote and then [TS]

  Chris stood out and they both stood out [TS]

  in and like signed autographs and took [TS]

  photos with people and about you know [TS]

  it seemed like 700 people lined up to [TS]

  get their pictures taken and Chris was [TS]

  wearing a vote Roderick sticker in every [TS]

  photo [TS]

  Wow which is cool and you know that was [TS]

  I don't have had a really emotional [TS]

  moment you know I'm we're backstage [TS]

  three of us and I'm sitting there [TS]

  talking about some the when they first [TS]

  met back in the grunge times and I'm [TS]

  sitting there thinking like 25 years ago [TS]

  could I have imagined that I would be [TS]

  that the three of us would be hanging [TS]

  out hard [TS]

  she's all three be a lot harder with all [TS]

  three line that we would be hanging I [TS]

  don't exaggerated but you know I just [TS]

  making chitchat about stuff right and [TS]

  you know as we get up to go take this to [TS]

  the the stage manager comes back and [TS]

  he's like you know you're on Mike [TS]

  McCready just introduced you guys and [TS]

  the the crap you know a mike came out [TS]

  and like give a warm introduction and [TS]

  then was like and here they are but we [TS]

  were all still upstairs upstairs talking [TS]

  about old times and so stage managers [TS]

  like you know you guys are on and stuff [TS]

  grabs kristin is just like hey man you [TS]

  know I saw that that Kurt Cobain [TS]

  documentary and I just wanted to say [TS]

  like and then there was another five [TS]

  minutes of three of us kind of standing [TS]

  in a little huddle well talking about [TS]

  and that you don't know enough for a [TS]

  long time and I've known Christopher a [TS]

  while and you know I admire them and [TS]

  love them both but like really human [TS]

  five minutes talking about really really [TS]

  human stuff he was saying he was my [TS]

  favorite thing that documentary well and [TS]

  and whiskey was great and really he was [TS]

  really you know moved and in that moment [TS]

  like moved to to describe his feelings [TS]

  about it and and you know and thinking [TS]

  like if there's anybody in the world [TS]

  that can identify like stuff and like [TS]

  all the people that we that those guys [TS]

  knew that didn't make it and that and [TS]

  people that I knew like our generation a [TS]

  lot of us didn't make us right [TS]

  and it was really really heavy and also [TS]

  really really beautiful and [TS]

  life-affirming because these guys are [TS]

  heroes and and 25 years ago I would have [TS]

  said like just legendary figures to me [TS]

  and yet like superhuman guys with like [TS]

  just really a lot of humanity and love [TS]

  and and and so in that moment you know [TS]

  it's just life affirming for me to [TS]

  remember that people are not statues of [TS]

  themselves there is it is possible to go [TS]

  through life and remain fully [TS]

  functioning person who's trying to feel [TS]

  and and you know it [TS]

  entering into the political world it's [TS]

  there [TS]

  there's all this pressure to like uh-huh [TS]

  to eliminate that from your vocabulary [TS]

  to stick to the numbers so that was [TS]

  really validating and their support was [TS]

  validating and so anyway you know that [TS]

  was all really exciting and then but [TS]

  that's that's just to say probably an [TS]

  unstated that that's not an opportunity [TS]

  that is gonna come up that many times in [TS]

  a given 10-year period [TS]

  well write down that particular room in [TS]

  a particular way he seems like you're [TS]

  probably getting it's like going to be a [TS]

  little bit like like reunion sometimes [TS]

  where your or just opportunities of [TS]

  different people being together the same [TS]

  place that must be must be a great [TS]

  feeling [TS]

  uh yeah right it is and you know what to [TS]

  think that in 1991 guns and roses and [TS]

  Nirvana were bitter enemies you know Axl [TS]

  Rose and Kurt Cobain and Courtney Love [TS]

  got into a fistfight at the backstage at [TS]

  the inn copy music video awards because [TS]

  Axl Rose told kurt tell his bitch to [TS]

  shut up you know [TS]

  welcome to the early next week welcome [TS]

  to the jungle right and so it kind of [TS]

  death you know and Nirvana was perceived [TS]

  to be the antidote to guns and roses [TS]

  rock-and-roller they were like the Sex [TS]

  Pistols two guns and roses Queen maybe [TS]

  ya gunz roses Zeppelin Yeah right right [TS]

  and and so you know those [TS]

  time heals all wounds factor and also [TS]

  the like how dumb where we then factor [TS]

  all that stuff really really poignant [TS]

  and you know that was a conversation [TS]

  that was only going to happen once and [TS]

  there was only one witness to it and it [TS]

  was me and I just felt fortunate and and [TS]

  and you know just black personally [TS]

  touched and and that is happening a [TS]

  surprising amount because i went to that [TS]

  you know that we have that shale oil [TS]

  drilling right right here that that was [TS]

  what people are paddling about that was [TS]

  over there paddling about and you know [TS]

  she'll is kind of the only oil company [TS]

  that is still trying to drill in the [TS]

  Arctic Ocean and they've tried a few [TS]

  times and they've they've like lost a [TS]

  lot of money trying it's very hard to do [TS]

  and this is their last chance kind of [TS]

  you know they don't they're not going to [TS]

  keep doing this indefinitely and they've [TS]

  told this ocean-going oil derrick here [TS]

  which was built in 1985 and has drilled [TS]

  all around the world and they're just [TS]

  waiting for the ice to clear up there to [TS]

  go up in July and try one more time and [TS]

  the City of Seattle has decided that [TS]

  this is where they're going to make [TS]

  their symbolic stand against it and [TS]

  there's a and all the usual suspects are [TS]

  saying like well union jobs or you know [TS]

  don't be naive fossil fuels aren't you [TS]

  know we're not ready to divest from [TS]

  fossil fuels and all the normal kind of [TS]

  business oriented it's none of our [TS]

  business it's Alaska's problem all this [TS]

  stuff and and ultimately the big [TS]

  criticism like it's just a symbolic [TS]

  gesture you guys don't have any you know [TS]

  there's nothing you can really do and [TS]

  and yet here was this huge gathering of [TS]

  people to say no don't drilling in the [TS]

  Arctic is idiotic [TS]

  if you make one fuck up there like the [TS]

  oil is you know it's it's frozen [TS]

  conditions right if there's an oil spill [TS]

  up there that oil is not going to [TS]

  organically degrade it's going to be [TS]

  it's going to just be in that Arctic [TS]

  geyer going around the world and but [TS]

  fouling [TS]

  greenland and iceland and norway it's [TS]

  just gonna spin around there for [TS]

  centuries [TS]

  don't be idiots like it's over the [TS]

  fossil-fuel era is on the I mean it's [TS]

  not just waning like let's just start to [TS]

  say it's over [TS]

  yeah yeah yeah yeah we said we don't [TS]

  realize it's everything it's over it's [TS]

  done [TS]

  yeah and-and-and it's gonna take 15 or [TS]

  20 years for us to to roll out all the [TS]

  the different solutions to the problems [TS]

  but like it's done [TS]

  justjust give it a rest and so yes it [TS]

  was a symbolic bunch of hippies in wet [TS]

  lease in kayaks out there but then there [TS]

  was a big a big meeting where you know [TS]

  stage and speeches and stuff and there [TS]

  were all these alaska natives who had [TS]

  come down from the North Slope these [TS]

  guys from Barrow and the you know the [TS]

  whole community of people who had been [TS]

  active against and Warren Arctic [TS]

  drilling for decades and it was really [TS]

  emotional for me to see that many Alaska [TS]

  Natives all in one place and speaking [TS]

  about their about their land and their [TS]

  feelings because that way you know it [TS]

  was like it was like a I haven't been [TS]

  back to Alaska and a couple of years and [TS]

  if and before that it had been a long [TS]

  time since I've been to an event like [TS]

  that and just you know the cadence of [TS]

  their of the way they speak and the and [TS]

  the songs and there you know that the [TS]

  places they were referencing it was all [TS]

  really really that's nice felt like [TS]

  family to me and I was I was so moved by [TS]

  the fact that that was a long journey [TS]

  and and a lot of them a lot of the the [TS]

  speakers were like we've been protesting [TS]

  Arctic drilling since 1970 and this is [TS]

  the largest crowd we've ever seen wow [TS]

  like talking about a difference right [TS]

  are you serious yeah we've been too racy [TS]

  for for over 40 years and mostly to [TS]

  unrest [TS]

  captive audiences and now here look at [TS]

  this look here we hear it something [TS]

  really is moving and you know obama just [TS]

  approved that arctic drilling you know [TS]

  as in in one of those inexplicable moves [TS]

  we're just like what do you want it [TS]

  what are you doing guy I thought we were [TS]

  at the Hopi where else be weren't you [TS]

  the guy about we get a lot of this [TS]

  moment or two the guy with global [TS]

  warming guy weren't you that guy and [TS]

  that's where it does feel conspiratorial [TS]

  like oh shit like did he get read into [TS]

  some area 51 shit and now he's making [TS]

  these decisions and we're just not right [TS]

  i don't think that's true i think he's [TS]

  just you know I don't know what but but [TS]

  the fact is like i was at this event [TS]

  that was a little bit hippie-dippie but [TS]

  when you really got into it or what I [TS]

  really got into it I was like fuck you [TS]

  guys this is it like that this era which [TS]

  we have been told our whole lives was [TS]

  was you know is that since 1980 we've [TS]

  been saying one day we'll transition [TS]

  away from fossil fuels and we've been [TS]

  told over and over again like not [TS]

  possible not possible not yet now yes [TS]

  here now yet not yet and it just feels [TS]

  like oh there's more people on the now [TS]

  side now than there are on the not yet [TS]

  side and that's a big that's a big [TS]

  moment I have a world historical moment [TS]

  and that feels amazing [TS]

  yeah just and just the fact that it's in [TS]

  no longer requires us to have belief and [TS]

  faith that things can be different [TS]

  because the reality is already changing [TS]

  i would say that except a guy tweeted me [TS]

  from Seattle the other day [TS]

  quoting my one of the lines in my [TS]

  political bio that say you know it's [TS]

  great to live in Seattle because we [TS]

  don't have to argue whether or not the [TS]

  polar ice caps are melting and the guy [TS]

  Twitter mediums like sounds like [TS]

  somebody needs to google polarized cap [TS]

  extense haha [TS]

  haha that now wait a minute is that just [TS]

  is that the at the high end of the [TS]

  iceberg you think it's gonna end up in [TS]

  aliens and chemtrails well so so so I [TS]

  was like tell me more [TS]

  you know what i'm gonna do i'm going to [TS]

  google those exact words and I googled [TS]

  the exact words and the first thing that [TS]

  came up was this scientific study with [TS]

  all the data about the shrinking ice [TS]

  caps and so I screencapped it and [TS]

  tweeted it to the guy and I was like you [TS]

  mean this first result of those words [TS]

  that you said and he tweeted me back and [TS]

  he was like well if you believe a bunch [TS]

  of data from a bunch of scientists yes [TS]

  but here's a Deadspin article that [TS]

  unmasks the law and the deadspin article [TS]

  was like you know actually on the north [TS]

  side of the Antarctic ice shelf it has [TS]

  put on a bunch of ice in the last two [TS]

  years you know the the the west side of [TS]

  the west north side of the Antarctic ice [TS]

  shelf has grown considerably in the last [TS]

  years apparently according to this [TS]

  article but then as you read down the [TS]

  article it says but every other aspect [TS]

  of the Antarctic shelf is catastrophic [TS]

  shrinking to the point of like the point [TS]

  of no return and of course the Arctic is [TS]

  almost completely free of ice now John [TS]

  Roderick fact cherry picker and so I [TS]

  wrote him again knowing that I should [TS]

  not and I said leave it [TS]

  I said serve did you even read to the [TS]

  end of the article that you're citing [TS]

  and he wrote me back again he was like [TS]

  you know if you want to believe the [TS]

  climate the the the big dollar climate [TS]

  Lobby I was just like oh my god even in [TS]

  seattle there's there I'm sure tons of [TS]

  people sitting in the den of their split [TS]

  level home shaking their shaking shaking [TS]

  their like it [TS]

  disembodied rubber hand at that at the [TS]

  dam scientists John you for your problem [TS]

  is probably your mobbed up with big [TS]

  science you know all those thing is all [TS]

  those years you and big truth [TS]

  if you if you go if you go look at the [TS]

  people who donated to my campaign you'll [TS]

  find a lot of scientists there a lot of [TS]

  batt theologists and people studying the [TS]

  migratory patterns of the of the monarch [TS]

  butterfly so special interest groups you [TS]

  know what I'm saying and they are [TS]

  donating sometimes 25-30 even fifty [TS]

  dollars to my campaign and I'm beholden [TS]

  to their interest not to mention the [TS]

  computer maths people know all those [TS]

  guys such a trade school dropouts the so [TS]

  disappointed disappointing i thought you [TS]

  were gonna be different man [TS]