Roderick on the Line

Ep. 154: "West Coast Noncommittal"

 

  this episode of Roderick on the line is [TS]

  sponsored by cards against humanity this [TS]

  month they ask paul and storm to help me [TS]

  say hi to john [TS]

  dinner [TS]

  all i need is you [TS]

  I [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  hello hello how are you today [TS]

  that's right oh that's just swell Bob's [TS]

  your uncle my raccoon hat on and i'm [TS]

  ready to broadcast as a side note we do [TS]

  that for 90 minutes it's rob but you [TS]

  gotta keep moving you gotta get out of [TS]

  the way that's number one and number two [TS]

  what that in your pipe and smoke it [TS]

  take it to the bank and Johnny like [TS]

  nothing I've done this [TS]

  the amazing thing is you know that you [TS]

  know that quality when you look at a [TS]

  really old photographs of people like [TS]

  you look at you find a photograph of an [TS]

  of a whole class of from school [TS]

  you look more like you know but they're [TS]

  adults like a technical school or [TS]

  something you look at their pictures and [TS]

  their faces there there's the [TS]

  physiognomy is just look old [TS]

  oh yeah they don't look like modern [TS]

  people who and then when you listen to [TS]

  recordings of the way people talked in [TS]

  old movies radio I don't talk like [TS]

  normal people either they talk like old [TS]

  only like maybe civilians not like [TS]

  training broadcaster types of you [TS]

  the thing is the difference today [TS]

  everybody wants to be on TV and radio so [TS]

  everybody's already you could do a man [TS]

  on the street a person on the street and [TS]

  they're going to have a bit move back [TS]

  then you hear interviews with people [TS]

  from like the fifties and sixties it's [TS]

  delightful because they they sound like [TS]

  normal people they're normal people and [TS]

  also there's a bit yeah [TS]

  when you look at those classic movies [TS]

  from the from the nineteen thirties or [TS]

  the you know the early talkies there's [TS]

  that kind of almost British quality to [TS]

  the way they speak in their very you [TS]

  know like there's a but but at the same [TS]

  time there's a there's a cut a self [TS]

  awareness of the of their diction right [TS]

  that feels a little bit put on it is i [TS]

  think i think this is god dammit I'm [TS]

  gonna have to not using the internet now [TS]

  this comes up twice a year and I need to [TS]

  find out what this is called but it was [TS]

  I think it's the way that people were [TS]

  trained elocution I bet you're part of [TS]

  it part of it is stagecraft out of being [TS]

  in plays and stuff but then you know in [TS]

  the early days [TS]

  we learned from singing in the rain John [TS]

  you have to speak very clearly your [TS]

  voice you probably you probably sound [TS]

  like a clarinet when you talk you got to [TS]

  have a real resonant voice but I think [TS]

  that's that was the where they called [TS]

  like the received pronunciation of [TS]

  Hollywood yes you know like the BBC [TS]

  english i think that was our version of [TS]

  that with the received Hollywood [TS]

  pronunciation well and this is one of [TS]

  the you know I've said for many years [TS]

  that I believe that the English language [TS]

  has continued to evolve as it has moved [TS]

  away from its form its place of origin [TS]

  and that actually the the most perfectly [TS]

  spoken english is that which is spoken [TS]

  by the educated people of Alaska [TS]

  mhm because it's been through every gate [TS]

  right it's it's it's made its way [TS]

  through all this sort of Midwestern [TS]

  nasal and southern drawl and west coast [TS]

  non-committal and it's made its way [TS]

  isn't that the Jon west coast [TS]

  non-committal west coast non-committal [TS]

  you hear it all the time it's you know [TS]

  it's kind of spoken from your teeth but [TS]

  then you get to Alaska and every you [TS]

  know everyone since Alaska has been so [TS]

  recently settled by Europeans right it's [TS]

  a it's a mishmash of all the different [TS]

  spoken english 'as and we have refined [TS]

  it until it has become perfect and you [TS]

  know it is broadcaster English but even [TS]

  better and when I want to advance this [TS]

  theory to people for instance from [TS]

  England they find it laughable but they [TS]

  are still speaking a kind of archaic [TS]

  english some leftover hodgepodge some [TS]

  steak and kidney pie that's been left [TS]

  out on the counter snap and it [TS]

  meanwhile we have been well right here [TS]

  in Alaska perfecting a language that's [TS]

  right we have we have we [TS]

  we've sent it through a thousand cheese [TS]

  clubs and here it is the best version [TS]

  not some not some Boston you know some [TS]

  Boston baked beans [TS]

  means of English know there's Alaskan [TS]

  English the enemy hate beans and pie is [TS]

  he perfect version food I can I have it [TS]

  the problem is Alaska has a very small [TS]

  population and everyone else is allied [TS]

  against this theory but i really do [TS]

  think there's something to it is it [TS]

  anything that you can demonstrate well I [TS]

  demonstrated only in the perfect way [TS]

  that i speak english you just blew my [TS]

  mind [TS]

  hmm i've been getting the demo the whole [TS]

  time that's right that's right [TS]

  if you can I mean and it and there are [TS]

  some there are some small like glitches [TS]

  write some some brief moment some max [TS]

  headroom moments where you see you see [TS]

  the behind the curtain [TS]

  mm see the see the matrix for instance i [TS]

  do say everybody everybody you know [TS]

  everybody over here you you got you you [TS]

  know i don't like me deal that you got [TS]

  several that i know i've got several now [TS]

  wait a minute you're saying several you [TS]

  have you you can name more than one [TS]

  everybody what's the name of the place [TS]

  where you did you show last year on dude [TS]

  what's goin on the rendezvous [TS]

  yeah how's that supposed to be [TS]

  pronounced i think its rendezvous [TS]

  it's French I like the way you say it [TS]

  but i know i say this because you know [TS]

  i'm being defensive because I have more [TS]

  of these and I realized and then once [TS]

  people start pointing out that become [TS]

  self-conscious [TS]

  yeah you know the people yell at me for [TS]

  saying Sasquatch almost a sasquatch [TS]

  sasquatch [TS]

  what about what your kids put on to go [TS]

  to bed at night cameras pajamas [TS]

  yeah but what do you say well I don't [TS]

  know I'm really come on the horns of a [TS]

  dilemma between pajamas and pajamas [TS]

  pajamas [TS]

  yeah that doesn't settle fancy come on [TS]

  that's like arms [TS]

  ok thank you John god fucking dammit on [TS]

  on is like writing a sentence without an [TS]

  oxford comma mon is on is terrible onto [TS]

  is terrible and it really it really buy [TS]

  and the thing is my wife the thing is he [TS]

  this is you know what it's like to be in [TS]

  a relationship right [TS]

  barely but [TS]

  you don't know what it get the better [TS]

  throw it out the window the better wipe [TS]

  my tears with it you know i have said i [TS]

  don't know i'm not saying i have success [TS]

  with this but I think a big part of [TS]

  being in any kind of a long-term [TS]

  relationship is learning the things that [TS]

  only you were allowed to be right about [TS]

  oh if you can if you can minimize the [TS]

  number of things that only you are [TS]

  allowed to be right about here you [TS]

  thought technology that's a thought [TS]

  technology because i think it makes you [TS]

  a better person and i'm pretty sure even [TS]

  though you may not you may still think [TS]

  in your mind that you need to be right [TS]

  about something [TS]

  there's just so much stuff where I want [TS]

  to really keep my powder dry right and [TS]

  the thing is i also know how desperately [TS]

  fucked up i am so I'm always looking for [TS]

  improvement opportunities right but i [TS]

  have to say there are some things I [TS]

  capitulated on on because everybody [TS]

  well because of my lady everybody in her [TS]

  family says on so I'm the only one in [TS]

  the family that refers to an su instead [TS]

  of on soon they think I'm talking about [TS]

  you know insects or something like that [TS]

  but then sometimes I find myself saying [TS]

  yeah that's right Ellie ya later in the [TS]

  month we're going to your on uncle's [TS]

  house back because I catch myself having [TS]

  to speak it phonetically all all all all [TS]

  alcohol i don't know i guess they see [TS]

  why but i I've got through this with a [TS]

  few people like I was talking to another [TS]

  program about how you take the first [TS]

  name of the guy who is the deputy on [TS]

  Andy Griffith you take the phenomenon of [TS]

  Sun coming up in the morning and I [TS]

  pronounce both of those the same up a [TS]

  bar need on party down and Dawn ok now [TS]

  do you see there's any different [TS]

  dawn and dawn so they're easy i'm sorry [TS]

  are you saying that if you're saying [TS]

  differently right yeah dawn [TS]

  ok this is this is my color this is like [TS]

  me and color blindness and not to be [TS]

  able assist but this is I can't really [TS]

  hear that difference you cannot hear [TS]

  that are being gone and dawn [TS]

  haha this is a prank and that's okay [TS]

  well I no that's no that's because I [TS]

  feel like I feel like the vast majority [TS]

  of our listeners would be able to hear [TS]

  that i was pronouncing a whole different [TS]

  word i'm never gonna be a good idea [TS]

  professional I i know people from the [TS]

  tri-state area i feel like people from [TS]

  the tri-state area will say do one you [TS]

  buy tristate area you mean and you mean [TS]

  New Mexico Arizona and Colorado the [TS]

  original the OG now i'm talking about [TS]

  that and you got your new york new [TS]

  jersey pennsylvania triads yeah right I [TS]

  get you I don't know and you know it's [TS]

  just it's it's funny because like I [TS]

  don't think of myself as being i know [TS]

  people who are very sensitive about the [TS]

  pronunciation and in the same way that [TS]

  you might be sensitive about like a lazy [TS]

  eye or something you know for all people [TS]

  because they feel like they are [TS]

  overcoming some some like regionalism [TS]

  maybe but also we talked about this at [TS]

  phenomenon and I have some very smart [TS]

  people have the same problem where if [TS]

  you're a reader and especially if you're [TS]

  an internet radio I see you know you [TS]

  know where I'm going with this yes and [TS]

  you've read a word you have one of these [TS]

  I remember I can't remember what the [TS]

  word is but you'll have read a name or [TS]

  you have read you know a given word [TS]

  potentially thousands of times you might [TS]

  actually no more than eighty percent of [TS]

  the population about this noun when [TS]

  you've never actually had to say it out [TS]

  loud but wait i said i used one of the [TS]

  very beginning of this program I i use [TS]

  the word physiognomy which allows you to [TS]

  zero physiognomies physiognomies me and [TS]

  I and neither one of them sounds right [TS]

  and I as a writer i have used this word [TS]

  thousand times i think it all the time [TS]

  like that that's an interest is [TS]

  interesting physiognomy but I do [TS]

  actually not know how it is pronounced [TS]

  and every time I start to say the word [TS]

  I've become aware i'm about I become [TS]

  aware that I have gone too far in the [TS]

  sentence to not say it and then i'm [TS]

  committed and that somewhere halfway i'm [TS]

  in the air right doing a Daffy hehe [TS]

  don't have time to think about whether [TS]

  you should have junk you just need to [TS]

  figure out having a land without [TS]

  breaking something and I'm going to land [TS]

  it and I and I either and depending on [TS]

  who the person i'm going to is I either [TS]

  go physiognomy is yummy [TS]

  because yeah I just I just I try and get [TS]

  out of there i try to get to the ground [TS]

  is life cycle through an array of every [TS]

  conceivable pronunciation [TS]

  mispronunciation and here's what you [TS]

  look like you're genuinely damaged yeah [TS]

  the problem is i have gone multiple [TS]

  times two dictionaries and looked at the [TS]

  jumble of upside-down use and other you [TS]

  know diphthongs trying to figure out [TS]

  what the pronunciation of that word is [TS]

  and i get i can't make heads or tails of [TS]

  it even when I really investigate it and [TS]

  I never no one ever uses it no-one ever [TS]

  says it out loud right right right [TS]

  you're traveling sir [TS]

  so I walk through the world waiting for [TS]

  some waiting for someone else to say [TS]

  that word to me so that i can i can at [TS]

  least latch onto their pronunciation of [TS]

  it and say fuck it I know one thing I've [TS]

  heard it once but I'm not no one ever [TS]

  speaks it and I think it's because no [TS]

  one else knows how to pronounce it [TS]

  I think that's I think it's too i think [TS]

  as writerly people we tacitly understand [TS]

  that if you don't know the meaning of a [TS]

  word don't use it to make sure you could [TS]

  you go you go look it up [TS]

  that's good you're improving your word [TS]

  power you know saying improve your word [TS]

  power you want to prove your word power [TS]

  I'm just saying though you might you [TS]

  might want to be careful if you are [TS]

  using the word and don't like the times [TS]

  for example that I have said expendable [TS]

  when I meant flexible [TS]

  ok that was really super embarrassing [TS]

  right I I used to say I used to say [TS]

  momentum when I meant inertia [TS]

  oh no I notice these things a lot more [TS]

  than I used to and I don't think of [TS]

  myself as a word nerd but i really like [TS]

  i really like using the appropriate word [TS]

  and it drives me crazy when i realized [TS]

  i've been using an incorrect or in exact [TS]

  word for a long time [TS]

  yeah yeah the the hardest part of doing [TS]

  that is getting corrected like the [TS]

  momentum and inertia one I knew i was [TS]

  using it wrong [TS]

  I mean I knew I was it was one of those [TS]

  things where you're searching you're [TS]

  doing the Terminator and you're [TS]

  searching your a your pc here heads-up [TS]

  display feet for fuck you asshole [TS]

  momentum asshole and and I and I just [TS]

  didn't have inertia entered into my did [TS]

  my you know my dictionary for that [TS]

  application and it's not that I had [TS]

  learned it I just hadn't gotten it [TS]

  wasn't on the short list and i kept [TS]

  getting to momentum and just saying it [TS]

  because I wanted to get on with the [TS]

  thought right and neat the bass player [TS]

  of the decemberists once in a bar said [TS]

  do you mean inertia and i was like i do [TS]

  mean inertia thank you [TS]

  and then that use of that word is now [TS]

  tied to Nate query and I bet you still [TS]

  think about it i cannot say the word and [TS]

  then I cannot say inertia in the way [TS]

  that I mean it's now without without [TS]

  picturing him picturing his kindly face [TS]

  you know i am and i happen to like him [TS]

  very much and he meant he meant that in [TS]

  a very nice what I mean he wasn't [TS]

  ashamed people I I i still this is a [TS]

  little bit of a call back but now for [TS]

  the last few months every time that's [TS]

  rare that i drink from a water fountain [TS]

  but every time I drink from a water [TS]

  fountain now I think of your friend that [TS]

  I've never met who told me to think of [TS]

  him when i drink from a water fountain [TS]

  that's right oh my god it's it's it's [TS]

  it's a it's a mental virus expanding 30 [TS]

  years it's ridiculous and i'll bet you [TS]

  right now there are people listening to [TS]

  the show that are gonna go drink drink [TS]

  from a water fountain they're gonna [TS]

  think of me thinking of your friend that [TS]

  they've never met language is a virus [TS]

  who it's insane [TS]

  he planted that bug knowingly well [TS]

  because you say this [TS]

  what a dick here's the thing and I you [TS]

  know I don't have I feel myself like [TS]

  like slowly grinding into permanent old [TS]

  man mode it's happening to it so fast [TS]

  when we started this podcast we're still [TS]

  young men were a podcast of ideas and [TS]

  now we are just let leibnitz and and the [TS]

  and solar installer here's the thing I i [TS]

  am not one of the i don't think i'm one [TS]

  of those people that feels like the [TS]

  language should be static is obviously [TS]

  it's always evolving [TS]

  you're not a member of the french [TS]

  academy for instance who may know who [TS]

  believes that we should say from a [TS]

  bourgeois instead of cheeseburger about [TS]

  the foremost booze wha [TS]

  we used at least uh like to harass our [TS]

  French literature teacher who is also [TS]

  the French language teacher and so we [TS]

  would just ask him asinine things in the [TS]

  middle class all the time and we say [TS]

  quickly said you know what is a [TS]

  professor was called mr. Hixon just to [TS]

  get on his nerves mr. Jackson how do you [TS]

  sell say my nails salon perfect would [TS]

  you say my maison parfait salon you [TS]

  talking about flow barrage and you would [TS]

  have to say might know my nails are [TS]

  perfect as though I have just come from [TS]

  the salon uh i was explaining to do my [TS]

  daughter yesterday that the actual words [TS]

  of a fresh acha the actual English [TS]

  traditional singing that night [TS]

  yeah and the actual translation should [TS]

  be brother John brother John sleeping [TS]

  are you sleeping on and she was just [TS]

  like what [TS]

  yeah this is insane I was like yeah I'm [TS]

  telling you that's why we're in a very [TS]

  tenuous military alliance with friends [TS]

  that's true yeah yeah no absolutely [TS]

  there's you know there's there's [TS]

  cognates in his cognates you know i'm [TS]

  saying i do my problem is and I you know [TS]

  it's you I i like the evolution of [TS]

  things i do get i'm not a big fan of [TS]

  hella when I hear that I mean hella is [TS]

  kind of the like as hella is to this [TS]

  generation as you know was two hours in [TS]

  some ways just in the sense that it [TS]

  becomes something that you are just [TS]

  you're putting in everywhere its that's [TS]

  ok that's ok here's my general [TS]

  overarching issue it's not really a [TS]

  language problem it's a communication [TS]

  problem i think there are probably think [TS]

  pieces about this on medium right now I [TS]

  think young people don't know how to [TS]

  communicate with other people anymore [TS]

  who talking more old man [TS]

  well I for example I you think about [TS]

  talking to somebody on the phone and [TS]

  nobody likes try not to i know i know [TS]

  nobody likes talking on the phone but [TS]

  there are times when it is the quickest [TS]

  path to communication [TS]

  and I maybe this is just because again [TS]

  because i was a little kid in a [TS]

  different age but I speak very clearly [TS]

  when I'm on the phone I focus very [TS]

  heavily and I risk sounding like I'm [TS]

  being very repetitious by making sure [TS]

  that we all understood what we just said [TS]

  and agreed right just just cuz i think [TS]

  it's really useful to go i do that an [TS]

  email to do that all the time just click [TS]

  just to clarify we're meeting tomorrow / [TS]

  tuesday that dumb stuff you know and [TS]

  rest but I feel like I talk to so like [TS]

  sometimes we get groceries delivered [TS]

  from this place in town they have to [TS]

  call if there's a replacement and [TS]

  they're not even talking into the phone [TS]

  I don't know what they're doing with [TS]

  their phone but they don't they don't [TS]

  know how to communicate they don't know [TS]

  how to pause to let the other person [TS]

  speak they don't have to account for [TS]

  latency and a call it just just kind of [TS]

  meandering like it's just yeah you're [TS]

  talking about you forget this [TS]

  mhm and I've heard it said turns out [TS]

  I've heard it said that a lot of people [TS]

  say a lot of people say that also means [TS]

  not something to eye contact when they [TS]

  talk em makes them uncomfortable ICS [TS]

  mmog an emoji John you should get more [TS]

  into emoji you know I'm really behind on [TS]

  emojis i'm an old enough guy that I [TS]

  can't see what happened emojis are they [TS]

  all look like the turd right somebody [TS]

  sent me like a a a winking devil cat not [TS]

  a turd [TS]

  I look over the top of my classes really [TS]

  setting they occurred and that i'm here [TS]

  today and what is that in that face [TS]

  anxious is it scared what the turd face [TS]

  no wonder people the turd face you get [TS]

  is turn but yeah the other the other [TS]

  thing is also the I refused to stop [TS]

  using sentences and punctuation when i [TS]

  text people and i'm told that that makes [TS]

  me sound angry [TS]

  OIC yeah right you need to end [TS]

  everything with a ! three options at [TS]

  them if you're saying thank you you're [TS]

  supposed to say thanks with an [TS]

  unnecessary ! failing at that you say [TS]

  thanks with no punctuation well oh and [TS]

  if you say thanks for the period it's [TS]

  considered a fuck you [TS]

  alright thanks thanks thanks [TS]

  yeah well I you know I have struggled [TS]

  with this a lot and I that is we have we [TS]

  have really jumped the old man chart but [TS]

  I've definitely struggled with the lack [TS]

  of my socks so hard to put on where does [TS]

  that other one go [TS]

  I put two in the dryer I'm sure don't [TS]

  they know old people like hard candy why [TS]

  the jar so hard to open [TS]

  yeah i do I have succumbed somewhat to [TS]

  the ! a escalation because I I recognize [TS]

  you know I do a lot of texting and I [TS]

  recognize that the thanks with a period [TS]

  is a little is a little bit of a it's a [TS]

  little cold mayonnaise you know a little [TS]

  bit of its like me but i have said hella [TS]

  for 30 years and have hella is one of [TS]

  those things like like dude or like like [TS]

  in the early 90s late late eighties [TS]

  there was a there was that verbal tic [TS]

  that went around for a while where you'd [TS]

  say like you know oh my god today is [TS]

  beautiful and the other person will say [TS]

  yeah it is yeah right and you'd be like [TS]

  yeah it is [TS]

  they're like yeah it is and it's it felt [TS]

  like it was a challenge and then I [TS]

  picked that up and a dude and and hella [TS]

  both were words that i started using [TS]

  initially as that uh I was charity so I [TS]

  was parodied sarcastic yeah like Oh [TS]

  hella and then it just became like I say [TS]

  dude and have said dude I think it's [TS]

  about a week-and-a-half yeah it off to [TS]

  go from doing any better voice is a joke [TS]

  to not being able to stop [TS]

  yep and it was one of those for me and [TS]

  and using a lot though [TS]

  no I'm not like an animal I'm not like [TS]

  some kinda like hella hella dude you've [TS]

  got like it out is it [TS]

  hello amount i do got the other one i've [TS]

  been did I think i actually saw an [TS]

  article somewhere about this recently [TS]

  the the ascendance of no yeah or like [TS]

  that up that moves real [TS]

  good night was great like what happen [TS]

  haha i do i I do it all the time no [TS]

  really it was great [TS]

  yeah I wanted to agree with somebody by [TS]

  starting by saying no you so lately i [TS]

  have really I I know what we're getting [TS]

  at here which is that where relevant [TS]

  well know that we're both very confused [TS]

  because on the one hand we do want [TS]

  language to be useful and meaningful and [TS]

  and follow some rules right that seems [TS]

  normal that seems regular at but then we [TS]

  don't we don't want to stand in the way [TS]

  of the the constant evolution of of [TS]

  communication and be like old and be [TS]

  angry about it but at the same time the [TS]

  entire theme of this podcast for three [TS]

  years has been that standards are [TS]

  declining everywhere [TS]

  yeah and we need to like that but like [TS]

  pull up our pants and and go back to [TS]

  work as at our jobs and so i don't know [TS]

  i i'm talking about personally who i am [TS]

  i'm navigating these these very [TS]

  precipitous hills in my own life and [TS]

  just wondering i cannot surrender right [TS]

  that isn't in my nature to just [TS]

  surrender i need to capitulate to do to [TS]

  capitulate think that's the better word [TS]

  but at the same time it's important to [TS]

  listen and learn [TS]

  you know there's there's there's there's [TS]

  a lot of the I've been seeing this a lot [TS]

  lately where people say like well you [TS]

  just need to listen now and I go I'm [TS]

  comfortable listening and learning i [TS]

  really am I have been doing that my [TS]

  whole life i like it it's a great thing [TS]

  but at a certain point that like you [TS]

  just need to listen is being used as a [TS]

  way of saying you just need to [TS]

  capitulate haha alright and yeah like [TS]

  listening and learning is wonderful but [TS]

  then it will get there there's also some [TS]

  you know there needs to be some [TS]

  back-and-forth or some pushback on some [TS]

  ideas right for some more some asking to [TS]

  clarify right asking to clarify or or [TS]

  you know or just think [TS]

  King churning on it right i mean there's [TS]

  there's and other that little tick that [TS]

  I just did which is to end every [TS]

  sentence with right ? oh yeah super [TS]

  annoying and I was pointed out it was [TS]

  pointed out [TS]

  not that I was doing it but i was at an [TS]

  event where the hubby host you know a [TS]

  very educated an erudite woman who was [TS]

  giving a long presentation said right at [TS]

  the end of every sentence until it was [TS]

  you know until it rub it was like you [TS]

  know you really notice it was like a [TS]

  foghorn in the room and end it and you [TS]

  know it didn't detract from like the [TS]

  real smartness of the presentation it [TS]

  just was like you started to wince at [TS]

  the end of her senses like I'll got [TS]

  ology did it again right [TS]

  and pretty soon so you can notice but so [TS]

  I don't know you know we do have an [TS]

  obligate this is this must be the this [TS]

  this must be be like the the the [TS]

  terrible thing about middle-aged this [TS]

  must be it [TS]

  merlin which is just to stand athwart [TS]

  two areas and to say now hold on wait [TS]

  just everyone hold on justice and that [TS]

  must be why middle-aged people are so [TS]

  uncomfortable and why it's why this why [TS]

  they buy red Corvette why it's talked [TS]

  about is such a difficult time right and [TS]

  we're experiencing it [TS]

  yeah I'm because your enemy it's fine i [TS]

  can't stop thinking this recent episode [TS]

  of louie ck that the live show where he [TS]

  he begins by being mad about the ways [TS]

  treated at this cookware store fantastic [TS]

  episode but you know in the woman [TS]

  basically just confront him she's like [TS]

  I'm 24 I on my own store in Manhattan is [TS]

  this the way you always threatened by [TS]

  being around young people and he's [TS]

  getting his dander up and you know like [TS]

  why don't you want to learn about [TS]

  customer service since i got good wins [TS]

  sonoma they'll treat you nice them look [TS]

  look but you know because this Q 24 year [TS]

  old asian woman who owns her own store [TS]

  one kiss his ass like he's accustomed to [TS]

  and she basically called the shit on it [TS]

  goes like well you're you know you're [TS]

  getting older you're becoming less [TS]

  relevant if you want your kids to evolve [TS]

  become better than you see things are [TS]

  working out fine [TS]

  that but it also makes you think you [TS]

  know I i guess it was a long time before [TS]

  I really thought about this just that [TS]

  distinction between you talk about [TS]

  having two people saying you should just [TS]

  got listen I mean I think the first [TS]

  distinction between listening and [TS]

  hearing that i became aware of is that [TS]

  you can hear stuff just stopped for you [TS]

  have to hear what's going on around you [TS]

  I hear traffic noise outside but i'm not [TS]

  paying a ton of attention to it when I'm [TS]

  listening I'm focusing my attention on [TS]

  what people are saying with the [TS]

  understand with the with the implicit [TS]

  now I'm hearing triangle by I hear these [TS]

  things but when I'm listening to them [TS]

  i'm focusing my attention with with [TS]

  partly the idea that i want to [TS]

  understand it better but that was I [TS]

  think that's a pretty good distinction [TS]

  but a more recent one that's really been [TS]

  occurring to me because internet is the [TS]

  difference between hearing and listening [TS]

  listening means that you pay attention [TS]

  to something for more than content when [TS]

  you I think when you listen to someone [TS]

  you're looking to go way beyond what [TS]

  they think they're saying what you think [TS]

  they're saying to learn more about who [TS]

  they are and what they think and the [TS]

  context for why they're saying what [TS]

  they're saying that you know god damn it [TS]

  you fucking gamergate douchebags it [TS]

  means more than just trying to [TS]

  contradict the facts of what somebody [TS]

  says right means trying to hear what [TS]

  they're saying and then listen to why [TS]

  they're saying it so that you can [TS]

  understand the context for more than why [TS]

  they're not looking for a note from you [TS]

  on how they said it and what they said [TS]

  they're looking for you to have some [TS]

  empathy that sometimes means not talking [TS]

  sometimes that empathy means you just [TS]

  have to you're gonna have to sit here [TS]

  it's like meditation it's not going to [TS]

  take one minute to get good at this [TS]

  you're going to be here for a while and [TS]

  just not talk for a little while in [TS]

  order to really understand what these [TS]

  folks are talking about [TS]

  yeah and all those listen that's listen [TS]

  to me ultimately listening is an [TS]

  emotional exercise as opposed to hearing [TS]

  right and listening is so often right [TS]

  the when someone says just listen to me [TS]

  what their what they mean is don't ever [TS]

  stone ever offer a solution like I'm [TS]

  don't ever offer a critique I just want [TS]

  you to listen as an emotional to be [TS]

  emotionally receptive you know so many [TS]

  people want [TS]

  to just be heard and it's it's it's [TS]

  alien to me because I'm you know I'm [TS]

  from the beginning right I i was that I [TS]

  was at a preschool meeting the other day [TS]

  and then and that teacher got up and [TS]

  said to everybody in the room can you [TS]

  remember the first time that you really [TS]

  felt heard by a teacher and everybody [TS]

  you know knotted thoughtfully and she [TS]

  was like I remember the first time I was [TS]

  ever heard by a teacher i was in 11th [TS]

  grade and the teacher you know really [TS]

  heard my project and it and you know and [TS]

  his response was what made me decide to [TS]

  be a teacher myself you know and we went [TS]

  around the room and everybody told the [TS]

  story about the first time they were [TS]

  ever heard really heard and noticed and [TS]

  seen by a teacher and you know the the [TS]

  problem for me was that there was never [TS]

  a time in my life when I didn't feel [TS]

  hurt by the teachers when I was three [TS]

  years old I assumed I was being listened [TS]

  to by the teachers and all the way [TS]

  through school I never once occurred to [TS]

  me that the teacher didn't know not only [TS]

  you know my name and what I was working [TS]

  on and and was validating my process but [TS]

  was like celebrating me and I see it in [TS]

  my daughter to like there's there's no [TS]

  question in her mind that that that [TS]

  everyone is listening to her and it's a [TS]

  and I was sitting next to a woman who [TS]

  was like well you know I no one ever [TS]

  listen to me I but I got straight A's [TS]

  and that's how I knew that's how they [TS]

  knew me they knew me as the girl that [TS]

  got straight a's but I you know I don't [TS]

  think anybody I never spoke I was like [TS]

  it's very different very different [TS]

  experience that I've had and you know [TS]

  and and in contrast to what what what [TS]

  kind of surprised me was the majority [TS]

  experience which was feeling unheard [TS]

  and so you know that that my whole life [TS]

  I've spent learning to listen without [TS]

  offering a an opinion how boy because [TS]

  you know though because the it was a it [TS]

  was not my instinct right and I have [TS]

  known a lot of strong people who have [TS]

  said over and over since the time I was [TS]

  22 years old i am going to i had a bad [TS]

  day today I'm going to talk about it to [TS]

  you and I would like you to just listen [TS]

  and that was a that was a something it [TS]

  when i was 18 19 20 it was really hard [TS]

  for me to just listen [TS]

  but I've learned I learned to do it it's [TS]

  the it's like you say it's um it's one [TS]

  of the things you do in a relationship [TS]

  I'm trying to avoid the else in the room [TS]

  its i think that what you're describing [TS]

  is absolutely true and i think that for [TS]

  something like 25 years now we looked at [TS]

  it as this Mars and Venus thing where I [TS]

  mean I was all speak for myself it [TS]

  I didn't realize how terrible i was at [TS]

  just listening to people for a very long [TS]

  time i realize i'm still not as good at [TS]

  it as like as I can be but i'm at least [TS]

  aware that i need to just fucking relax [TS]

  and let the other person talk sometimes [TS]

  not just because you know one thing also [TS]

  with with both of us is not an excuse or [TS]

  a to forgiveness but when we say things [TS]

  like right like you don't mean like I [TS]

  think that shows in some ways that where [TS]

  it's not just that we want you to agree [TS]

  with us like I'm constantly doubting [TS]

  whether i said what i was actually [TS]

  thinking whether my thought made any [TS]

  sense and whether i'm really just having [TS]

  if I'm just not realizing i haven't [TS]

  faced yet i'm constantly thinking do I [TS]

  make any sense when I speak to people [TS]

  don't want to hear myself and I say [TS]

  things like that make sense [TS]

  like I know how needy that sounds but [TS]

  part of that is actually me going like [TS]

  ah my brain just runs all the time it's [TS]

  just going and going and going and [TS]

  sometimes it's like little gumball [TS]

  machine your pop little slot open and [TS]

  sometimes stuff comes out and i'm just [TS]

  not even sure if that constitutes [TS]

  anything meaningful so part of that is [TS]

  when you say things like it becomes a [TS]

  tick but it starts out as from that [TS]

  terrible place [TS]

  um I mean to me that's even different [TS]

  from you know what I mean yeah you know [TS]

  what I mean or like you know Walter [TS]

  Sobchak am I wrong like this or does [TS]

  all mean kind of different things yeah I [TS]

  was it was there was a little bit of [TS]

  adjustment when you and I got to be [TS]

  friends when you would get to the end of [TS]

  someone go right and i would hear that [TS]

  means I'm done talking [TS]

  well I was here like that you expected [TS]

  an affirmation and then later later on [TS]

  as time went on I realized that you were [TS]

  seriously asking correct am I correct or [TS]

  sometimes yeah for sure you know do you [TS]

  d-does what I've just said and does my [TS]

  perception square with your perception [TS]

  but beyond that the beyond the beyond [TS]

  the Mars and Venus part it uh it is [TS]

  something that I think most men I [TS]

  probably in America men of our age [TS]

  how are really thinking about this maybe [TS]

  I'm projecting here but i was thinking [TS]

  about it seriously for the first time [TS]

  because we've expected that everybody [TS]

  was going to listen to us and what we [TS]

  had to say and if they didn't they were [TS]

  they were dumber black like that they [TS]

  just couldn't get like how what we're [TS]

  saying should be received wisdom in some [TS]

  ways and I don't know it's uh I'm [TS]

  finding it a very very interesting [TS]

  challenge to get better at that and that [TS]

  was despite back to that other personal [TS]

  example those my nicely the worst like [TS]

  if I had a look at girlfriend who had a [TS]

  bad day i was i was always ready to just [TS]

  be the problem solver before she could [TS]

  even she would exhale start to speak a [TS]

  sentence and i would start coming up [TS]

  with ideas why don't you take a bath [TS]

  want to take a walk should get some [TS]

  dinner [TS]

  oh that probably wasn't what you thought [TS]

  it was and i'm offering all these things [TS]

  to do what to a solve a problem but [TS]

  importantly be just make her feel better [TS]

  and everything is that's not my job like [TS]

  is I'm not there to make her feel better [TS]

  i'm here to shut the fuck up and let her [TS]

  describe what it is clear that what [TS]

  she's feeling [TS]

  although part of your job as being as [TS]

  being a you know in a relationship with [TS]

  somebody is to make them feel better and [TS]

  that's what's now just not always on my [TS]

  terms [TS]

  yeah i think the difference between [TS]

  making somebody making somebody feel [TS]

  better about something versus just [TS]

  trying to make everything go back to [TS]

  this the way that you're comfortable [TS]

  with [TS]

  I mean this is the primary the primary [TS]

  problem in my mother's relationship with [TS]

  my sister which is that my mother is a [TS]

  solver and my sister wants [TS]

  to talk about our feelings and so [TS]

  although they're you know they're [TS]

  mother-daughter bond is is very strong [TS]

  my sister comes in and starts to vent [TS]

  about her day and my mom says well why [TS]

  don't you why don't you talk to your [TS]

  boss tomorrow and tell him that that [TS]

  that's not acceptable and my sister goes [TS]

  the problem you know and she then she [TS]

  starts to talk about heard a little bit [TS]

  more on my mom says well why don't you [TS]

  just you know like it if you just [TS]

  enrolled at the community center how [TS]

  many problems with that and uh it's just [TS]

  my mom's nature to do that because you [TS]

  know it's very hard to because that [TS]

  because the expression might my sister [TS]

  the the way that my sister expresses her [TS]

  frustration about her day is very [TS]

  discomforting right or discomforting [TS]

  yeah where you know where she's [TS]

  expressing frustration by means of [TS]

  saying like it's just it'sit's in just [TS]

  that might be another my boss just [TS]

  doesn't see that it's not you know like [TS]

  I should be able to have a five-minute [TS]

  smoking break and you know my sister's [TS]

  mad and she's and she's venting and my [TS]

  mom says well you know I mean did you [TS]

  think to take your five-minute smoking [TS]

  break you know when you go to the [TS]

  bathroom where my mom's trying to miss [TS]

  it and now at that point she's more like [TS]

  an editor or or a coach where she's [TS]

  trying to like help improve performance [TS]

  yeah a coach and and but part of that is [TS]

  that that like but I think rationally [TS]

  i've been i've been watching this [TS]

  dynamic for 40 years but you know my mom [TS]

  feels like my sister's agitation is [TS]

  something that she wants to help resolve [TS]

  sure that that's the biggest part in [TS]

  some ways right and that that resolution [TS]

  that part of that resolution is that my [TS]

  sister isn't seeing or it you know that [TS]

  that she could change her behavior and [TS]

  resolve this problem or that she could [TS]

  take a different tact and what and my [TS]

  sister is once just to vent her emotions [TS]

  and then the the feeling will pass [TS]

  and then she'll go back to doing the [TS]

  behavior that got her in trouble with [TS]

  her boss you know and and and and and [TS]

  partly my perception of it is that is it [TS]

  is back to introvert extrovert polarity [TS]

  where you know Susan wants to vent her [TS]

  emotions she does not want to solve her [TS]

  problems and my mom wants to solve [TS]

  problems so that emotions do not ever [TS]

  enter into it it's a completely [TS]

  different paradigm the different [TS]

  paradigm and yeah and-and-and watching [TS]

  it over the years be characterized in [TS]

  the press as a as a Mars Venus issue but [TS]

  then watching it play out between the [TS]

  two you know the two primary women in my [TS]

  family I've had been forced to see it as [TS]

  a as part of the either introvert [TS]

  extrovert a paradigm or the emotional [TS]

  rational you know [TS]

  yeah right and and honestly like [TS]

  sometimes I laugh and laugh and laugh [TS]

  because I hear my sister start to go on [TS]

  something and I realized that it isn't a [TS]

  you know she just is she just needs to [TS]

  offload her feelings about something and [TS]

  I look over my mom like please stand [TS]

  this just please stay out of it but [TS]

  there are other times when listening to [TS]

  my sister vent like I also feel like you [TS]

  yell about this every afternoon it's the [TS]

  same problem every time why don't you [TS]

  just stop taking your smoke break right [TS]

  under your bosses window is that so [TS]

  crazy and and it's a big because [TS]

  ultimately like I don't want to hear the [TS]

  same emotional vent everyday like it is [TS]

  in emotional venting of that kind is [TS]

  actually stressful for her to even just [TS]

  to be a passive witness just to be a [TS]

  listener and that's the that's the [TS]

  relationship part of it where you [TS]

  realize and then the thing that [TS]

  emotional Venters maybe don't always see [TS]

  is that listening to them is requires [TS]

  energy also and listen even if the event [TS]

  they're not in the room I mean just kind [TS]

  of preparing for going like wow I [TS]

  today went ok yeah right i mean and at [TS]

  and this is the this is the classic [TS]

  problem that introverts have with [TS]

  experts which is that introverts are [TS]

  very very aware of what extrovert Sneed [TS]

  extrovert are typically not even [TS]

  conscious that there is such a thing as [TS]

  an introvert let alone that an introvert [TS]

  has different needs [TS]

  who and so you know my sister is [TS]

  conscious of the fact that that week you [TS]

  know that we somehow are bad listeners [TS]

  but not aware of how much it takes out [TS]

  of us to listen to a litany of complaint [TS]

  where it seems like the solution is easy [TS]

  and this you know this is a this is a [TS]

  it's and when I say us it's only that my [TS]

  mom and I have a similar nature i got i [TS]

  got out of that game a long time ago in [TS]

  my own family and that's where [TS]

  pretending to read has been a fantastic [TS]

  strategy in Milan my whole adult life [TS]

  pretending pretending to read struggling [TS]

  to actually read while people are [TS]

  fighting in the other room but so that [TS]

  you know that a that communication style [TS]

  like right now we're in an era where [TS]

  listening and talking are very there you [TS]

  know vario courant little different [TS]

  different ways of listening for being [TS]

  you know being sort of challenge to [TS]

  listen better but the but the awareness [TS]

  that listening is also a very active [TS]

  activity and if you are listening [TS]

  actively it is it it is a strain it [TS]

  takes you know not not a not a not [TS]

  necessarily a painful strain but it is [TS]

  an exercise it does take vitamins it it [TS]

  isn't it is if it isn't passive than [TS]

  that means it's if there's not an effort [TS]

  the person's probably not really [TS]

  listening right probably barely even [TS]

  hearing and that effort is also you know [TS]

  that effort is also real and for some [TS]

  for a lot of introverts like that that [TS]

  effort is that makes them need to go sit [TS]

  in a dark room and with a wet towel over [TS]

  their head [TS]

  there's also an element of I guess I [TS]

  always use this word wrong now sensitive [TS]

  about it but there's also an element of [TS]

  having to inertia inertia or momentum [TS]

  velocity torque there's an element of [TS]

  empathy and I think that I don't know [TS]

  not sure that's exactly the right word [TS]

  but i think one way to think about [TS]

  empathy is that it's easy to be [TS]

  empathetic it's easy to feel the [TS]

  feelings or understand the feelings of [TS]

  somebody who has the same feelings as [TS]

  you do it's very you know what i mean [TS]

  when somebody is it has been you know if [TS]

  if you have a god forbid you've got a [TS]

  sibling that died and talk to somebody [TS]

  who recently had a sibling that died [TS]

  you might be really a good person to [TS]

  talk to because you you probably [TS]

  somebody who can understand what they're [TS]

  going through you know it is sure that [TS]

  get even more specific but no matter [TS]

  what it is it's not it's not as [TS]

  difficult to have empathy for somebody [TS]

  that you think a has the same feelings [TS]

  as you and importantly be deserves to [TS]

  have those feelings and right i think [TS]

  where it gets challenging them where you [TS]

  get the real actual idea of empathy is [TS]

  when you start trying to understand not [TS]

  just how somebody feels but why they are [TS]

  how they appear to you whether they [TS]

  deserve that feeling or not that's true [TS]

  empathy trip with the and I must be good [TS]

  at this but is what i'm working toward [TS]

  is to get better at going gosh it sure [TS]

  is easy to chunk everybody into one of [TS]

  these 11 boxes that I've got and that [TS]

  sure makes life a lot easier i can then [TS]

  focus on like one or two of these boxes [TS]

  most the time and you know the rest is [TS]

  garbage people that the difficult part [TS]

  is that to become truly empathetic [TS]

  person and I'm going somewhere with this [TS]

  is really empathetic person you have to [TS]

  get good at understanding what's not [TS]

  just on the surface whether that you [TS]

  think that very good and deserving [TS]

  person to have those feelings whether [TS]

  you think their grievances are [TS]

  appropriate [TS]

  whether you think their ideas about what [TS]

  should change our realistic that you [TS]

  know it's very it's very easy to get [TS]

  shortcuts about those things to where [TS]

  you can just write all those people off [TS]

  but talked before about teachers need to [TS]

  be a good teacher and to be maybe to be [TS]

  a good arm [TS]

  it's a politician because that implies [TS]

  muscle tissue there to election year [TS]

  going to be a good public servant you [TS]

  have to have an element of empathy you [TS]

  have to be realistic about knowing what [TS]

  can be accomplished [TS]

  but it seems to me you have to become [TS]

  very empathetic about listening and [TS]

  hearing from people where you may not [TS]

  even understand where they're coming [TS]

  from you start trying to figure out [TS]

  whether there are chemtrails person but [TS]

  doesn't make sense like the end of the [TS]

  area does that make sense but to me [TS]

  that's the empathy part is empathy is [TS]

  not just feeling for people who you like [TS]

  and agree with empathy is learning to [TS]

  try and understand or at least hear [TS]

  people that you may be absolutely don't [TS]

  agree with you at least hear that [TS]

  mountain figure out like why they're how [TS]

  they are and then live with the fact [TS]

  that maybe you'll just never agree and [TS]

  maybe that doesn't make them the worst [TS]

  person in the world [TS]

  they're just really just fucking [TS]

  different well it's interesting because [TS]

  in Star Trek new generation is that what [TS]

  it's called is a newer next i've been [TS]

  criticized for this criticized or have [TS]

  you just been a mention have you just [TS]

  been listened to on people have heard [TS]

  you say star trek new generation I'm not [TS]

  putting this happens and you're the [TS]

  house is being handed ok so in the [TS]

  second generation of us on track in the [TS]

  in the latest generation not the latest [TS]

  i'm sorry in the original next new [TS]

  generation so what we're talking about [TS]

  is episode to episode negative 2 of the [TS]

  new generation of Star Trek there this [TS]

  is the one professor x in the guy from [TS]

  the cruise Professor X Professor X [TS]

  Professor X that his name that I say [TS]

  that wrong [TS]

  jean-luc Picard jean-luc general ordered [TS]

  jean-luc Picard you know there is an [TS]

  empath character on the ship and that [TS]

  was you know at the time when that show [TS]

  came out it was like oh wow wouldn't [TS]

  isn't that a kind of it that's a cool [TS]

  bit of writing to imagine the future him [TS]

  to imagine a science future which were [TS]

  all geeking on having not just a doctor [TS]

  and a science officer and a navigator [TS]

  and a chemist but also a feelings [TS]

  professional right when that when Star [TS]

  Trek new generation first came out it [TS]

  was the first time that we had ever seen [TS]

  a feelings professional it on a science [TS]

  show and that was that was kind of a [TS]

  little bit of a like a brain tickle is [TS]

  that Troy commander Troi around and so [TS]

  but but but very clearly at that point [TS]

  in time it was and in the writing of [TS]

  that show there were you know there were [TS]

  scripts their storylines where someone [TS]

  needed to go talk to Troy go talk to [TS]

  Commander Troi she was the she was the [TS]

  one who had the the expertise and [TS]

  sometimes you know there would be an [TS]

  alien that they an alien intelligence [TS]

  that they were encountering and at that [TS]

  point they hadn't had any Troy scripts [TS]

  for a while and so they would they'd [TS]

  figure out a way that Troy needed they [TS]

  needed her wisdom and insight to [TS]

  interact with this alien life form but [TS]

  for the most part it was still that they [TS]

  were using science to explore the [TS]

  universe and more often than not the way [TS]

  to encounter an alien life-form was to [TS]

  put the shields up and power up the [TS]

  photon torpedoes right now we're going [TS]

  through a cultural phase where empathy [TS]

  for someone like you is being encouraged [TS]

  by you know the the multiplicity of [TS]

  voices in the in the world to really [TS]

  really focus on empathy but there are [TS]

  empaths in our world and then there are [TS]

  people that will never you know that who [TS]

  are constitutionally really incapable of [TS]

  empathy and empathy is just another one [TS]

  of our talents like sports ball like [TS]

  being able to run or jump and some [TS]

  people are really really good at it and [TS]

  some people need to really train to [TS]

  activate it in themselves and there are [TS]

  there are cultural dampers that [TS]

  we put on it but then there are there's [TS]

  a whole swath of the world [TS]

  twenty-five percent of the people [TS]

  probably just have no empathy and or or [TS]

  or little empathy and so I don't think [TS]

  that empathy is a thing that everybody [TS]

  can have and I think it's something that [TS]

  it's great that where we talked about in [TS]

  are aware of but like there are also [TS]

  many well I've been on the Joe Cruz five [TS]

  times I know what it I know what it's [TS]

  like to be in a world where empathy is [TS]

  the is the language currency but there [TS]

  are a lot of people on the spectrum for [TS]

  whom empathy is a is a distance idea and [TS]

  I don't you know I don't know where [TS]

  we're going to be in 20 years on this [TS]

  but and I'm and I'm glad we're talking [TS]

  about it but there's also like my mom [TS]

  has as much empathy is she can have and [TS]

  it isn't and it isn't enough for my [TS]

  sister and never will be right and over [TS]

  the years I have said to my sister like [TS]

  you're the one that has this deep [TS]

  capacity for empathy can you not show [TS]

  any for your mother who has no real [TS]

  capacity for it and that's where I found [TS]

  the the greater struggle like my mom can [TS]

  say i don't know i don't know how to [TS]

  empathize with this it just seems like [TS]

  complaining to me but I know that about [TS]

  myself and I and I try to not talk i try [TS]

  to you know she's gone as far as to try [TS]

  to bake her way out of it [TS]

  what if I made cookies you know like [TS]

  literally tried to try anything [TS]

  Wow but the the empathetic one the one [TS]

  with all the feelings my sister doesn't [TS]

  has never been able to find the [TS]

  reservoir of feeling on behalf of the [TS]

  person with no empathy that's the kind [TS]

  of ironic part yeah and it and it and so [TS]

  often it is in this conversation where [TS]

  it's like yeah well you know this person [TS]

  has trouble sharing your feelings can [TS]

  you can you feel that [TS]

  do you have feelings can you share those [TS]

  feelings so I don't know you know like [TS]

  uh I think that I'm definitely not a [TS]

  science officer I'm much more really of [TS]

  an impact but not so much of a of an [TS]

  empath that I'm not ready to power up [TS]

  some photon torpedoes [TS]

  no I understand it's part of the job [TS]

  right you know what I mean like a lot of [TS]

  mission la a large steak explore new [TS]

  worlds yes seek out new civilizations [TS]

  yes who hit them with photon torpedoes [TS]

  Roddenberry's dream so I struggle [TS]

  yeah well as long as you talk about our [TS]

  feelings the you know this is that this [TS]

  other thing that I again I i always feel [TS]

  like I'm just saying something it's so [TS]

  obvious but it's something I want I i [TS]

  find very almost impossible to deal with [TS]

  in in my own life and so I find a triple [TS]

  impossible to try to be something that I [TS]

  lightly gently try to impart on my kid [TS]

  which is this really strange strange [TS]

  message about how much you can actually [TS]

  change about stuff at a given time in [TS]

  the world and how much you can change [TS]

  about other people because that you just [TS]

  said in part on my kid instead of in [TS]

  part to my kid and that as a as a dad [TS]

  that it's absolutely what it feels [TS]

  comprised of listen I'm going to impart [TS]

  this on you and high it myself but [TS]

  here's what here's what it comes down to [TS]

  I mean here's an example we get up to [TS]

  the i don't know i'm always talk about [TS]

  crossing the street except it's [TS]

  something we do a lot and so it's [TS]

  something to think about a lot is [TS]

  something where I want her to be [TS]

  actively engaged in the process of [TS]

  crossing the street and talked about [TS]

  this a lot and in other dances across [TS]

  the street you don't go across the [TS]

  street without looking you don't go [TS]

  across the street like you like you're [TS]

  in war like you you you know it but it's [TS]

  such a it's such a delicate operation of [TS]

  trying to explain to a little kid here's [TS]

  what I don't want to there's millions i [TS]

  don't want to I don't make them careless [TS]

  on the one and the other end I don't [TS]

  want to make her scared and so I try to [TS]

  impart something in between which which [TS]

  is that there's something very [TS]

  complicated going on here [TS]

  the basics are things like look left [TS]

  right and left but then keep looking [TS]

  keep making onto my contact keep going [TS]

  across but then the thing that I want to [TS]

  say very gently is even if we do this [TS]

  part [TS]

  quickly things can still go wrong I and [TS]

  we have no control over that and [TS]

  understanding that has a strange and I'm [TS]

  not about to explain this to a [TS]

  seven-year-old cause I barely understand [TS]

  it but there's a certain existential [TS]

  freedom and realizing that things always [TS]

  could go wrong even if you do your best [TS]

  but that doesn't mean you don't still [TS]

  try to do your best and so in in that [TS]

  kind of an instance I guess I'm the [TS]

  larger message I'm trying to impart on [TS]

  her is is that I and the thing that I [TS]

  need to learn all the time is that just [TS]

  because they're let's say I try to be [TS]

  empathetic and I fail I see other people [TS]

  feeling of being apathetic it doesn't [TS]

  mean we can't keep trying and like even [TS]

  if the system is broken we still have to [TS]

  do what we think is right and we still [TS]

  have two and god willing in the right [TS]

  atmosphere we should we continue to [TS]

  learn and get better and we don't just [TS]

  you know dig in around something that [TS]

  may be an old dead or bad idea but you [TS]

  know but part of sanity in life is [TS]

  realizing that on you know let's get to [TS]

  this part of thinking empathetically the [TS]

  empathetic as well I mean justice you [TS]

  put them in a million different ways but [TS]

  I think about more than just your own [TS]

  dick in a given day right and just [TS]

  getting to a point where you can go look [TS]

  I I want to really try to understand [TS]

  where other people are coming from and [TS]

  then except you know what i don't [TS]

  understand what that person is coming [TS]

  from their kind of a dick and then go [TS]

  that's I just gotta move on it doesn't [TS]

  mean I'm going to treat them badly but [TS]

  it means that doesn't mean that the life [TS]

  ends because i can't settle this one [TS]

  relationship that just means that that's [TS]

  just how life is because it all is a [TS]

  question of how well my filter can make [TS]

  me feel like I understand how the [TS]

  fucking world works when I have never [TS]

  understand how the world works well you [TS]

  have a pretty good sense of element [TS]

  works [TS]

  yeah spins in one direction only [TS]

  mmm this is trying to move a little bit [TS]

  toward your torture project because i'm [TS]

  curious how these kinds of the reason [TS]

  I'm bringing these up is first of all to [TS]

  show you that I struggled to be a person [TS]

  but also that like how does this affect [TS]

  you I mean how is your listening to her [TS]

  going it's going really well and you [TS]

  know the that that the danger the the [TS]

  danger of of thinking of progress [TS]

  is that if you're a historian or at all [TS]

  interested in looking back at all in [TS]

  there is a feeling of progress over time [TS]

  right that we're just were not [TS]

  confronting the same problems that we [TS]

  were in 1651 not like the Middle Ages [TS]

  where we actually on the grand scale of [TS]

  things did move backward for a while [TS]

  right well and in some ways like [TS]

  learning moved backward but well yet [TS]

  technology sure like moved where we lost [TS]

  a lot of ground but we were also going [TS]

  through a phase a where we were [TS]

  developing through monotheism a whole [TS]

  complex set of new ideas about what [TS]

  would constitute a person and what [TS]

  constituted are ethical basis right that [TS]

  the idea of the idea of justice that we [TS]

  have today is a product of all that [TS]

  religious churning that happened in the [TS]

  Middle Ages which we think of as the [TS]

  dark ages [TS]

  so although we lost astronomy for a [TS]

  while and maybe lost the Roman concept [TS]

  of the aquaduct for a while and lost we [TS]

  lost a lot of intellectual ground as we [TS]

  moved from a world where from a [TS]

  polytheistic animist world to one that [TS]

  was rooted in this idea that there was [TS]

  one God and you could have a you know [TS]

  you could have a personal relationship [TS]

  with them and not just that you're out [TS]

  in the woods burning sheep bones to [TS]

  appeal to who the god of of of scabies [TS]

  to relieve your suffering but that you [TS]

  you know that your whole life and all of [TS]

  life is like rooted in this central [TS]

  authority that's where the I you know [TS]

  that's where we're all of our [TS]

  contemporary ideas of of the rights of [TS]

  man come from and so it wasn't just a it [TS]

  wasn't that a lot was lost we were just [TS]

  building a new thing for a while [TS]

  and-and-and so here we are and we are [TS]

  we've made tremendous progress [TS]

  there's lots and lots of progress yet to [TS]

  make its all thought technology and [TS]

  we're in a were in a a mode right now [TS]

  that's very active the generation that [TS]

  followed hours and the generation that [TS]

  followed them is just bigger than we are [TS]

  and louder than we are and maybe the [TS]

  biggest loudest generation ever and [TS]

  they're gonna set the tone a lot more [TS]

  than we did or are capable of and [TS]

  there's you know they're the the spigot [TS]

  is wider so not everybody is coming from [TS]

  the same place and that's a very that's [TS]

  a that that's the maybe one of the [TS]

  hardest things to grapple with because [TS]

  there is as you try to resolve [TS]

  disagreement and you realize that that [TS]

  no one even accepts even one basic [TS]

  premise that the person they're arguing [TS]

  with accepts and that's kind of [TS]

  unprecedented I mean there is at even 50 [TS]

  years ago the basic premises were all [TS]

  commonly held for the most part or if [TS]

  you if you were an outsider to those who [TS]

  didn't hold those you at least knew what [TS]

  they were and you and you looked at [TS]

  yourself in in opposition to those those [TS]

  common ideas but there are a lot of [TS]

  people now who just don't even know the [TS]

  first thing about what the other person [TS]

  where the other person is coming from [TS]

  not even the first thing and they're not [TS]

  especially interested huh [TS]

  you know I when you think about I don't [TS]

  know if you there was a really cool [TS]

  article in the new york times about [TS]

  Obama's visit to this little South [TS]

  Dakota town to give the commencement [TS]

  speech at their little technical college [TS]

  and I think a big part of the reason he [TS]

  went there was that he had he'd been to [TS]

  49 of the 50 states and kind of letter [TS]

  the letter from that little girl [TS]

  yeah right exactly yeah and so he came [TS]

  to South Dakota to give the commencement [TS]

  speech at this little college but this [TS]

  article was written [TS]

  this reporter just went to the town and [TS]

  talk to a bunch of locals before Obama [TS]

  arrived and South Dakota was [TS]

  overwhelmingly a republican state no one [TS]

  in this little town voted for obama and [TS]

  in the advance of him arriving the [TS]

  reporter talk to all these people are [TS]

  like he wants to make it a Muslim [TS]

  country and and he doesn't even know [TS]

  it's a just all that usual stuff and [TS]

  then Obama came and hundreds of people [TS]

  in the town turned out went down to the [TS]

  airport [TS]

  airport [TS]

  or to watch the plane land as he drove [TS]

  through the town the reporter was you [TS]

  know followed this group of people that [TS]

  had been talking to already here she I [TS]

  don't know actually what I didn't look [TS]

  at the name of the reporter but followed [TS]

  the followed their responses and they [TS]

  were all thrilled that Obama wave to [TS]

  them that they saw the President and [TS]

  then they watched his speech on [TS]

  television and they were moved to tears [TS]

  that he was talking about their town and [TS]

  you know and then he was only he was [TS]

  only on the ground for a couple of hours [TS]

  drove his car back to the airport again [TS]

  you know people crowding the streets to [TS]

  see him off he flies and at least the [TS]

  you know through the narrow lens of this [TS]

  reporters experienced a lot of those [TS]

  people were their opinion about obama [TS]

  was transformed by just that tiny little [TS]

  bit of physical contact where they went [TS]

  from thinking he was the Antichrist to [TS]

  admiring him and thinking that he had [TS]

  given a good speech and like were [TS]

  surprised and astonished and and touched [TS]

  and moved by the whole experience and of [TS]

  course that's true right i mean i was [TS]

  vociferously against Reagan but if I had [TS]

  ever seen Reagan let alone seat been [TS]

  close to Reagan i'm sure i would have [TS]

  swooned over and that that sense of of [TS]

  how much we share and how little actual [TS]

  differences we have you only get that [TS]

  experience by being around other people [TS]

  by you know by traveling thing we talked [TS]

  about this all the time these [TS]

  disagreements on the Internet where [TS]

  people are just screaming at each other [TS]

  and if they were in the same room they [TS]

  would be you know fast friends are like [TS]

  and anyone who has ever traveled through [TS]

  Alabama knows that they're the [TS]

  friendliest people in the world and and [TS]

  terrible racists [TS]

  but-but-but wonderful people in so many [TS]

  other way [TS]

  now as a you know not apology but just [TS]

  as normal human experience and that's [TS]

  what we don't share anymore and so being [TS]

  out on the campaign trail and talking to [TS]

  everybody like I am the focus of a lot [TS]

  of energy directed at me I'm the hub of [TS]

  that wheel and I'm meeting people from a [TS]

  lot of different spheres and all I [TS]

  wishes that they could all meet each [TS]

  other for you know like uh huh i'm i'm [TS]

  seeing this incredible diversity of of [TS]

  thinking I'm meeting a lot of 25 [TS]

  year-olds like the like the girl in the [TS]

  louie ck store who at 25 years old [TS]

  already has all the wisdom in it and [TS]

  that she thinks she's ever gonna need [TS]

  and what you know and I whatever that [TS]

  episode is trying to convey what we [TS]

  don't know is six months later is her [TS]

  store closed because she's rude to [TS]

  customers [TS]

  I mean that's the that's the that's the [TS]

  thing that that kind of like well I'm [TS]

  doing fine and you know maybe you need [TS]

  to get with the times because look it's [TS]

  just like well I mean or like so many 25 [TS]

  years before you you think you can start [TS]

  a store and be rude to people and you [TS]

  don't need to be nice to old white men [TS]

  because they're irrelevant to you and [TS]

  then your store closes because you're [TS]

  rude and a bad a customer service person [TS]

  and then you learn like so many people [TS]

  have before you that customer service is [TS]

  part of the equation and so I'm eating a [TS]

  lot of very active 25 year-olds [TS]

  politically active 25 year-olds who [TS]

  think they already know everything there [TS]

  is to know about a city about government [TS]

  that's a great great age for that it's [TS]

  incredible and when I was that started [TS]

  that that's really the perfect age to [TS]

  feel like you know everything [TS]

  yeah right you so easily your you you [TS]

  are very smart at that age and maybe [TS]

  smarter than 40 rolls because you still [TS]

  have all your brain cells but what you [TS]

  you know but what you don't know is all [TS]

  the stuff you don't know and so I'm [TS]

  talking to people all the time who are [TS]

  just like well the solution is simple [TS]

  but a bit of it [TS]

  and I and you go well that is a simple [TS]

  solution until you start to become aware [TS]

  that every solution causes 42 other [TS]

  problems you didn't anticipate and they [TS]

  go well no it's like yes I mean I i have [TS]

  i have conversations all the time with [TS]

  with people who seem with young people [TS]

  I'm talking about there who do not [TS]

  understand that they did not invent the [TS]

  civil rights movement and I'm like you [TS]

  know people have been doing this work [TS]

  for a long time and the struggles have [TS]

  been different the challenges have been [TS]

  different but you are here able to speak [TS]

  this way because people have been doing [TS]

  this work for a long time and so the [TS]

  indignation you feel that we're not [TS]

  moving fast enough i would just like to [TS]

  direct your attention back just a few [TS]

  years to where we were then and imagine [TS]

  how indignant you would feel like this [TS]

  is this is you know like Anna and i'm [TS]

  not saying that by way of saying like [TS]

  respect your elders I'm just saying get [TS]

  a little context these ideas just [TS]

  because just because Twitter is new and [TS]

  snapchat is new does not mean that the [TS]

  ideas that are being expressed there are [TS]

  equally new and unprecedented and it's a [TS]

  it's a real challenge and I'd so I the [TS]

  the excitement of the campaign is that [TS]

  I'm talking to people from what we had [TS]

  we had a meeting yesterday of my [TS]

  volunteer squad it was just people that [TS]

  had offered to volunteer for the [TS]

  campaign and 25 people showed up on [TS]

  mother's day and they were all ages from [TS]

  2265 and there and it was like a real [TS]

  cross-section of people in seattle [TS]

  people who had only lived here for six [TS]

  months people who live their entire [TS]

  lives [TS]

  people with the Masters in Social Work [TS]

  people that worked political campaigns [TS]

  people that were just artists and I [TS]

  don't mean just artists to say that [TS]

  being an artist is lesser but just that [TS]

  that's you know that they are coming [TS]

  from the arts place and engaging in this [TS]

  campaign out of a like pretty confused [TS]

  about what is even happening here a [TS]

  politically and it was incredibly [TS]

  inspiring just have all these people in [TS]

  the room and listen to all there in a [TS]

  couple of teachers a couple of of the [TS]

  beauty of people from activists [TS]

  background and what I really wanted to [TS]

  do was just just say let's all sit here [TS]

  for hours and just talk about what you [TS]

  know like just start [TS]

  what's the single most important problem [TS]

  facing the city and the a we could it [TS]

  would have been a four hour long round [TS]

  table we didn't have that time but [TS]

  that's what i'm getting every day is [TS]

  this roundtable where it's all being too [TS]

  you know sort of directed at me either [TS]

  people trying to train me over people [TS]

  trying to school me people trying to [TS]

  connect with me people hoping that i [TS]

  will recognize their issue and then [TS]

  broadcast it for them you know and it's [TS]

  all really compelling and like it's [TS]

  moving it's moving my heart and that's [TS]

  that I think the best thing about it you [TS]

  know we get to be 45 and you're like oh [TS]

  maybe I'm you know maybe my heart can't [TS]

  move anymore right but i sat in a I i [TS]

  sat in a meeting where 20 people got up [TS]

  and spoke about the fact that the metro [TS]

  bus system had raised the bus fare 25 [TS]

  cents fifty cents and at first it felt [TS]

  like how the I mean I i know that [TS]

  there's always gonna be somebody that's [TS]

  mad about anything but in actually [TS]

  listening to 20 different people testify [TS]

  that they were trying to survive on [TS]

  750 dollars a month and that they needed [TS]

  to take the bus that you know they [TS]

  needed to take five buses every day and [TS]

  that that what seemed like a small fare [TS]

  increase actually was was prohibiting [TS]

  them from getting certain foods at the [TS]

  grocery store and that they had that [TS]

  they were supporting their children and [TS]

  their elderly incapacitated parent and [TS]

  they were the only burger and you you're [TS]

  one of those are like whoa that person [TS]

  has like a really bad scene but when you [TS]

  hear 20 people tell a story like that [TS]

  and you realize that these are the 20 of [TS]

  these people who took another two buses [TS]

  to come to this meeting to talk about it [TS]

  right right so you have to think that [TS]

  they are there a small percentage of a [TS]

  very small percentage of the number of [TS]

  people who are surviving at this you [TS]

  know at a level where 50 cent bus fare [TS]

  change or 25-cent bus fare change is a [TS]

  significant change in their in their [TS]

  welfare and you just go holy shit like [TS]

  this isn't like politics is important [TS]

  work and income inequality is [TS]

  desperately real somewhere in this town [TS]

  right now there are people who are who [TS]

  are you know throwing their xbox in the [TS]

  garbage because somebody spilled some [TS]

  pop on it or somebody spilled a drop on [TS]

  and they don't like it being sticky and [TS]

  you know and over here i'm sitting in a [TS]

  basement listening to these stories and [TS]

  it's just like by while wall you know [TS]

  but at the same time like I've been [TS]

  thinking about Jeff Bezos a lot i know [TS]

  you think about Jeff Bezos I've been [TS]

  thinking about him a lot because he's a [TS]

  piece of a big figure here in Seattle [TS]

  and he's an important key to [TS]

  what that what's going to happen in the [TS]

  city and he kind of keeps himself at a [TS]

  distance but he has a lot of employees a [TS]

  lot of them are like good people the [TS]

  culture of amazon is very circle the [TS]

  wagons but i don't know how much you're [TS]

  aware of Jeff bezos's Blue Origin [TS]

  project I don't know that is jeff is one [TS]

  of a like SpaceX and like Elon Musk Jeff [TS]

  is also a space visionary and he is [TS]

  building a manned space program I had no [TS]

  idea a lot of people don't know because [TS]

  he keeps it kind of is not real [TS]

  publicity-hungry about it [TS]

  he's not a showboater like Elon Musk but [TS]

  he is you know using his own resources [TS]

  to build a space capsule for a normals [TS]

  for regulars to go into space and it is [TS]

  pretty far along is his kids quiet space [TS]

  program like far enough along that they [TS]

  had a launch not very long ago of the of [TS]

  like an actual rocket that they had [TS]

  designed not a rocket that they bought [TS]

  from Russia not a rocket but that not a [TS]

  used rocket but a brand new rocket that [TS]

  they have designed from the ground up [TS]

  and constructed and launched I can i [TS]

  feel kind of dumb that i didn't know [TS]

  this [TS]

  I don't you shouldn't feel dumb because [TS]

  they're very quiet about it it's a [TS]

  rocket that let me let me just put it a [TS]

  let me like put it in a different [TS]

  contract it's a rocket that one the one [TS]

  the the bottom stage is done [TS]

  launching the capsule it actually [TS]

  parachutes back and lands with like [TS]

  retrorocket firing like lands on the [TS]

  ground who doesn't it doesn't fall into [TS]

  the ocean it's like it returns to Earth [TS]

  the rocket and the capsule has like it's [TS]

  a beautiful it's beautiful thing six [TS]

  people can ride on a you know in their [TS]

  plan is in the very near future to start [TS]

  allowing people to buy seats on this [TS]

  rocket to go up and do a like [TS]

  near-earth orbit weightless space [TS]

  experience so here's this guy he owns [TS]

  this company he's he is he's very [TS]

  wealthy he lives in Seattle [TS]

  he's hiring a lot of people and he is [TS]

  also building a space program that's [TS]

  also here in in the Seattle area and as [TS]

  you know I'm a big supporter of space [TS]

  exploration [TS]

  I think that's super great and the old [TS]

  canard that you that we shouldn't pour [TS]

  money into NASA because all that money [TS]

  could go to build low-income housing [TS]

  I've always felt like was a was a was a [TS]

  bad argument or like I understood i [TS]

  understand it from a liberal point of [TS]

  view that it seems like there's a [TS]

  limited number of dollars and why would [TS]

  you spend it going to space when people [TS]

  were poor but space exploration is like [TS]

  this at the soul of what I think we [TS]

  should be doing and we should also find [TS]

  the money to feed and house people and [TS]

  what and where that money should come [TS]

  from is not space exploration but all [TS]

  the people that have gold bathtubs right [TS]

  for some find a way somehow to tap into [TS]

  the the money and the energy that is [TS]

  going to build gold bathtubs for people [TS]

  and channel that money over but now that [TS]

  I'm spending a lot of time listening to [TS]

  people that need an extra twenty-five [TS]

  cents a date just to ride the bus like [TS]

  the context of all this stuff and this [TS]

  whole conversation is just like [TS]

  personally changed for me and I still [TS]

  want Jeff Bezos to explore space i just [TS]

  also want to you know to rope everybody [TS]

  in all the visionaries to to regather [TS]

  them into the conversation around around [TS]

  my town in particular right [TS]

  and try to figure out like we have we [TS]

  have this energy and this exploratory [TS]

  energy is great but I also want to say [TS]

  that it's it's an equal it's equally [TS]

  exciting to explore the idea of no one [TS]

  going hungry and it doesn't seem as [TS]

  exciting it's not as glamorous you don't [TS]

  get a space suit for it but it is also [TS]

  like a part of this feeling of progress [TS]

  her right [TS]

  the part of the feeling of like we keep [TS]

  moving [TS]

  I'm doing better and none of these [TS]

  things are [TS]

  it's not resolved that there will always [TS]

  be people starving [TS]

  why I want to sound cynical but it [TS]

  sounds like a guy i have no idea how [TS]

  somebody like that think somebody that [TS]

  kind of dough which course nobody ever [TS]

  feel like they have as much money as [TS]

  everybody thinks they do but in that [TS]

  case I mean I'll be rounding error like [TS]

  even if they given that look like a [TS]

  hundred thousand dollars right looking [TS]

  like like me you know maybe a day's [TS]

  worth of their time [TS]

  justjust on appearances like the optics [TS]

  of it alone it seems like why would you [TS]

  not do that and that though that's the [TS]

  that is the thing you know when when [TS]

  when you're talking to 25 year-olds and [TS]

  they're like well why doesn't just basis [TS]

  just pay the extra quarter for everybody [TS]

  it's like yes but the number of those [TS]

  things that the the bus fare the housing [TS]

  problem the mental health problem right [TS]

  like what we what we really need every [TS]

  person i talk to us like what we really [TS]

  need and you go [TS]

  we really do need a better mental health [TS]

  system where there are you know we [TS]

  closed the asylums and put all the [TS]

  people that used to be housed in asylums [TS]

  back on the streets [TS]

  yep and really what we should probably [TS]

  do is build some asylums again or go get [TS]

  those ones that we decommissioned before [TS]

  they [TS]

  fall into the ground and paint them and [TS]

  and get them working again and now we [TS]

  think about them differently we don't [TS]

  just one flew over the cuckoo's nest [TS]

  them but there are some people that need [TS]

  a place to be and that and they're never [TS]

  going to be reintegrated into society [TS]

  sites besides nowhere or jail [TS]

  besides nowhere or jail right besides a [TS]

  doorway or jail and it needs to be a [TS]

  thing that society funds and it needs to [TS]

  be a comfortable safe place and some of [TS]

  those people are going to be violence or [TS]

  angry or you know and they're in there [TS]

  need to be trained people there like at [TS]

  every step of the way we need is we need [TS]

  so much right these facilities you think [TS]

  about all the single mothers who are who [TS]

  end up homeless and they end up homeless [TS]

  because it's fucking hard to stay on top [TS]

  of the game and you've got two kids and [TS]

  all of a sudden you're living in your [TS]

  car and you don't even think of yourself [TS]

  as homeless you're just in between [TS]

  places you're living in your car and the [TS]

  kids have got to get to school and [TS]

  you've got to get to work and you're in [TS]

  your car and and that mother isn't even [TS]

  letting on to her kids that she's in [TS]

  trouble she's just like hey we're having [TS]

  fun we're living in our car for a little [TS]

  while mama figures out the next move and [TS]

  what we could do to help her or to make [TS]

  sure that that you know that that that [TS]

  that for a couple weeks she's doing that [TS]

  and then she reached then something else [TS]

  bad happens the car breaks down right or [TS]

  you know and then she really needs [TS]

  there's no wiggle room right then she [TS]

  really needs help and when she really [TS]

  needs help at that point when she's like [TS]

  oh fuck i'm up against the wall she [TS]

  rolls into someplace and they're like [TS]

  sit down and fill out this form now [TS]

  you're on a waiting list six months from [TS]

  now will call you know and it's just [TS]

  like no there's we don't have enough [TS]

  wiggle room for so many people and and [TS]

  yet we have obscene amounts of money [TS]

  right rich kids on instagram is also [TS]

  happening simultaneous to this [TS]

  and that that doesn't flame people and [TS]

  it and and the and the people that would [TS]

  tell us that it's unrelated are wrong [TS]

  and there's you know they're there it is [TS]

  related but what is it what is in our [TS]

  power to do and I think that the era of [TS]

  you know the area of armed revolution is [TS]

  in our past the era of really of using [TS]

  law as a as a cudgel is maybe in our [TS]

  past just because those rich kids on [TS]

  Instagram have the best lawyers you can [TS]

  get I think we're entering in and into [TS]

  an era where we have to wear empathy [TS]

  actually is the agent and where we say [TS]

  hey this is part of this is part of your [TS]

  wealth and success it's an it's and it [TS]

  is ultimately an auntie Tea Party [TS]

  argument or an auntie and Rand argument [TS]

  which is fine random sorry man I'm rond [TS]

  which is that we are all in this [TS]

  together your wealth did not come to you [TS]

  sure a purely by your own ingenuity but [TS]

  because we have provided this incubator [TS]

  which is our whole culture and now you [TS]

  know like you say wouldn't it be cool if [TS]

  in addition to to building a private [TS]

  space station or in addition to building [TS]

  a really cool electric cars we also were [TS]

  able to bolster the the the part of the [TS]

  of the couch where the stuffing is [TS]

  coming out [TS]

  and you know do you start making that [TS]

  argument on said council or do you start [TS]

  making that argument on your [TS]

  award-winning podcast like at what point [TS]

  do we get enough people together into [TS]

  this new way of thinking that's that's [TS]

  less shouty and finger-pointing and [TS]

  that's more just like a bunch of people [TS]

  standing there with compassionate looks [TS]

  on their faces saying hey we we don't [TS]

  begrudge you your success but you know [TS]

  chip in and that that doesn't mean go [TS]

  work for houses for Humanity it means [TS]

  like chip in right here [TS]

  well this is that the the quite [TS]

  interesting question to me is what [TS]

  you're describing it sounds really [TS]

  sensible it sounds like on the face of [TS]

  it that there should be something it [TS]

  let's put it this way it's not one of [TS]

  those things that is a basically [TS]

  impossible problem to solve it there is [TS]

  obviously something that can be done by [TS]

  somebody over some amount of time let's [TS]

  just take that is red so the question is [TS]

  how in your approach or your strategy or [TS]

  however you want to phrase it how do you [TS]

  differ from the other candidates and [TS]

  what you would choose to do differently [TS]

  in order to make something like that [TS]

  happen [TS]

  the exact question that gets asked every [TS]

  day I'm sorry and no it's good it's good [TS]

  it's it returned to be more empathetic [TS]

  it's the good it is a good question and [TS]

  you know ultimately the the first thing [TS]

  I can say is no other candidate is [TS]

  talking about this stuff that all this [TS]

  way right because the because the the [TS]

  conception is that all we have at our [TS]

  disposal is either that we can sue [TS]

  someone or pass a law that that requires [TS]

  that they you know that they and usually [TS]

  requires that they submit to attacks i [TS]

  mean that tax is our is our only model [TS]

  tablet you can also I mean I done it [TS]

  seems like a strange part part of what [TS]

  you do when you bring somebody and I [TS]

  think this is a little bit random but [TS]

  i'm thinking for example of like when [TS]

  you bring people into like a foundation [TS]

  board [TS]

  you might bring somebody into a [TS]

  foundation board because they're rich [TS]

  person and they'll theoretically give [TS]

  you a bunch of money but it could also [TS]

  be more importantly that they're good at [TS]

  getting money from other people that you [TS]

  know through mostly connections that's [TS]

  the wrong word but it seems like you [TS]

  know you can also be kind of a statesman [TS]

  who is good at making that case the [TS]

  people with a goal of course i'd love to [TS]

  help with that and I'll get my buddies [TS]

  to help with that right and Bill Clinton [TS]

  is great at this bill gates is good at [TS]

  it [TS]

  um but it is you know it's so often that [TS]

  the the the what we perceive to be the [TS]

  problem is i mean Bill Gates is has done [TS]

  incredible work providing clean water to [TS]

  people around the world he's saving tens [TS]

  hundreds of thousands of lives [TS]

  it's very much less glamorous to to [TS]

  build a facility in seattle for homeless [TS]

  mothers who have reached the end of [TS]

  their rope there's no glamour in it [TS]

  except except in the in that sort of the [TS]

  big small picture which is what if we [TS]

  built a city that had all of that with [TS]

  that took care of everybody [TS]

  it's also probably have an adventure i [TS]

  guess it's a difference in approach or [TS]

  outlook or composure I guess if you [TS]

  think about think about the people who [TS]

  if you wanna talk about entrepreneurs in [TS]

  particular people who made a lot of [TS]

  money you know through grit and [TS]

  determination and maybe dirty dealings [TS]

  whatever but the point is I you know in [TS]

  the same way that there are certain [TS]

  kinds of investors that are only [TS]

  interested in angel funding there are [TS]

  certain kinds you know I i would imagine [TS]

  that for most biting philanthropist [TS]

  there they're not as interested in the [TS]

  net at the bottom of not this is good or [TS]

  bad that they're not interested in the [TS]

  in a system of nets at the bottom of the [TS]

  building as they are in potentially [TS]

  showing up that top floors of people [TS]

  can't jump or even more deeply trying to [TS]

  fundamentally change why somebody would [TS]

  want to jump off that building and so in [TS]

  that case I i wonder if it's something [TS]

  where they talk about that not being [TS]

  very glamorous it certainly isn't it [TS]

  can the NIMBY stuff and all that I want [TS]

  to be more interested in some kind of [TS]

  programs that try to get get at that [TS]

  problem maybe not as early as John [TS]

  education maybe not as late as a shelter [TS]

  but somewhere in between so kind of [TS]

  intervention type thing you don't mean [TS]

  is it but I bet they'd be more [TS]

  interested in getting the problem [TS]

  earlier on [TS]

  well but that is exactly the way that [TS]

  we've been thinking about it for you [TS]

  know the second half of the 20th century [TS]

  and then just becomes a series of costly [TS]

  experiments [TS]

  well and just a kind of whack Amole like [TS]

  yes [TS]

  education is key and his is proved but [TS]

  you know but who is proved too to keep [TS]

  kids out of jail right later on in life [TS]

  but there's a whole lot of you who wants [TS]

  to fund quality education in seattle [TS]

  schools there any billionaire want to [TS]

  step up and do that [TS]

  hello hello zepp right are you still on [TS]

  the line like the only way we have to [TS]

  fund Seattle schools is through attacks [TS]

  and the only way that we are allowed to [TS]

  apply that tax is to the you know to [TS]

  everybody and we can do it through car [TS]

  tabs or we can do it through property [TS]

  tax or we can do it you know whether [TS]

  there are only so many ways to to to [TS]

  fund it and the rich people have really [TS]

  good excellent ways of avoiding paying [TS]

  their tax and so it falls to the middle [TS]

  class over and over and over and it [TS]

  would be wonderful if someone stepped [TS]

  forward and said I'll fun the Seattle [TS]

  schools with the rounding error on my [TS]

  you know on you I ego project over here [TS]

  and then there would be people that are [TS]

  like but but what about the homeless [TS]

  mothers and you know there's my [TS]

  principle is that if we I mean we all [TS]

  want we all want 40 years from now to [TS]

  have our city look and be a certain kind [TS]

  of pleasant prosperous place huh [TS]

  I can't imagine anybody with nobody [TS]

  would just reject that on the face it no [TS]

  one would reject it on the face of it [TS]

  and everybody's got a different idea [TS]

  about how to get there and a lot of [TS]

  people are like we just need to build [TS]

  taller buildings with bigger fences to [TS]

  keep people from jump [TS]

  off and then there are people that are [TS]

  like well the people that are falling [TS]

  off that building aren't jumping they're [TS]

  getting pushed i'm sorry there's a poor [TS]

  analogy but you know what i mean like [TS]

  your daughter who's living or whatever [TS]

  and there are a lot of technologists [TS]

  that do believe that the technology is [TS]

  just eventually going to make it [TS]

  impossible to be poor but when you look [TS]

  at the way that that actually works [TS]

  there just the they're assuming [TS]

  trickle-down economics they're using [TS]

  george herbert walker bushes philosophy [TS]

  that a rising tide lifts all boats and [TS]

  it just is demonstrable eon true right [TS]

  over the rich are getting richer but i [TS]

  do believe that we can say here's the [TS]

  city we want [TS]

  here's the city that we want and this is [TS]

  what it should look like and get [TS]

  everybody kind of onboard for the for [TS]

  some basic principles 40 years from now [TS]

  there shouldn't be a homeless person in [TS]

  Seattle that has no other options [TS]

  there's always gonna be somebody who's [TS]

  like fuck you i'm going to live in a [TS]

  garbage can [TS]

  but most people don't want to and a lot [TS]

  of the people that are living it that [TS]

  are like fuck you I'm want to live in a [TS]

  garbage can that it comes that night in [TS]

  November where they're like god dammit [TS]

  this was a bad idea right and in and we [TS]

  and where such a punitive society and [TS]

  end up in a moralistic one about about [TS]

  homelessness and drugs and mental [TS]

  illness we spend so much time saying [TS]

  well that single mother with her two [TS]

  kids should have smoked less pot in high [TS]

  school and done a little bit better and [TS]

  gone to tech school you know there's [TS]

  that there's that instinct we are [TS]

  oh we have in a as Americans to be like [TS]

  it's probably hurtful [TS]

  yeah and that judgmentalism keeps us [TS]

  from being able to have a at a real [TS]

  compassionate system because there's [TS]

  always somebody that's going to say i [TS]

  don't want my tax dollars to go to [TS]

  mollycoddle these these whores and it's [TS]

  just like well you know what that's [TS]

  really [TS]

  not how it is and and we and and the [TS]

  most of us here in Seattle recognize [TS]

  that and that's what you need is just [TS]

  the most of us but to get to get that [TS]

  vision of the city and then start [TS]

  reverse engineering practices rather [TS]

  than trying to build that city by each [TS]

  person saying well here's what we need [TS]

  here is what we need is we need to get [TS]

  get the picture first and then say what [TS]

  does that look like you know that what [TS]

  that's the 40 year plan now what did [TS]

  that look like at 30 years what did that [TS]

  look like it 20 years how would we get [TS]

  there and and build backwards from the [TS]

  from the goal and yeah and i think it [TS]

  will surprise us as we get like what did [TS]

  that look like a 10 years [TS]

  oh shit right that's what it looked like [TS]

  it 10 years and so to get to their we [TS]

  have to reevaluate what we're doing now [TS]

  we can't just keep you know keep [TS]

  flopping around like a bunch of a like a [TS]

  bunch of koi whose pond drained we need [TS]

  a we need to like get off get off of [TS]

  this get out of this rut and start doing [TS]

  some some weird and wonderful stuff now [TS]

  that will put us there in 10 years which [TS]

  isn't a solution but it is it's on the [TS]

  path to where we want to be in 20 years [TS]

  ever so that's the story that i'm trying [TS]

  to you know bring to the to this [TS]

  election and and that's what I'm trying [TS]

  to say about Seattle that we've tried [TS]

  all the we tried all this incremental [TS]

  like well what we need is you know we [TS]

  need to hire one more social worker to [TS]

  help fill out the forms at the office [TS]

  where you get in line for the for [TS]

  emergency housing it's like well we need [TS]

  more than that right we need to build we [TS]

  need to build and we need to build [TS]

  across a wide spectrum we need to fund [TS]

  the schools as though we're going to [TS]

  have to keep funding schools and not [TS]

  like the way we fund Seattle schools is [TS]

  we [TS]

  pass a bond for two years as though two [TS]

  years from now maybe there we won't have [TS]

  to pay for schools anymore [TS]

  fine an example if I understand what [TS]

  you're saying it's like well well how [TS]

  did they end up with that is the best [TS]

  solution [TS]

  yes exactly i mean harvard univ Harvard [TS]

  University figured out a long time ago [TS]

  that they needed an endowment right we [TS]

  don't have an in down moment for our [TS]

  public schools and well you know whether [TS]

  that was gutted or whether if you know [TS]

  whether it was it's just in this [TS]

  back-and-forth of like oh now now we [TS]

  don't pay taxes now we do this person is [TS]

  against it this person thinks the [TS]

  schools are full of maggots like how do [TS]

  we how do we go against this but how do [TS]

  we deep politicize things like schools [TS]

  so that the state legislature doesn't [TS]

  decide that this that that because there [TS]

  was one gay art teacher in shoreline [TS]

  that we don't teach art anymore is that [TS]

  even vaguely close to a real world [TS]

  example I mean why the why the why the [TS]

  holy jesus fuck don't we have money for [TS]

  schools in America right [TS]

  why are those things tied to cart abs [TS]

  it's it's bonkers particularly bonkers [TS]

  when you think that the state of [TS]

  California is subsidizing the water for [TS]

  a bunch of raspberry farmers and the [TS]

  City of Seattle has two three billion [TS]

  dollars on tap to build a tunnel under [TS]

  the city that will be obsolete obsolete [TS]

  before the paint is dry right after we [TS]

  do you know how much be frustrating it's [TS]

  really great but if you put three [TS]

  billion dollars in a in an endowment [TS]

  fund and used and never touch the [TS]

  principal and just use the interest to [TS]

  pay for some facet of I mean it wouldn't [TS]

  pay for all the schools but it would [TS]

  sure as shit go a long way to funding [TS]

  the schools in perpetuity right but [TS]

  nobody's thinking about that and so you [TS]

  know every year it's like oh shit we [TS]

  don't have any money for libraries or [TS]

  scream [TS]

  that's why the the business part of it [TS]

  kind of surprises me because I don't [TS]

  know what I'm thinking of a particular [TS]

  but i'm remembering few years back when [TS]

  it seemed very surprising to me to hear [TS]

  about how many leaders at big companies [TS]

  were speaking openly about what the [TS]

  achievement gap in America and basically [TS]

  they realize that it was getting harder [TS]

  to enter my Morsi this happened 20 years [TS]

  ago but I could be remembering around [TS]

  but they basically was it was obviously [TS]

  getting harder to hire into certain [TS]

  kinds of high tech careers that they [TS]

  were already seeing that it was getting [TS]

  harder and they were happy to do much [TS]

  stuff I try and hire people from [TS]

  overseas and I feel like I remember a [TS]

  lot of people saying hey look we need to [TS]

  invest in these kinds of careers for [TS]

  people who aren't even in school yet [TS]

  right these are the kinds of systems [TS]

  like that kind of remember first hearing [TS]

  thinking wow that is really forward [TS]

  thinking and really abstract and a lot [TS]

  of ways no direct benefits to any given [TS]

  company no roi they could put a floor [TS]

  about that whereas something like Jeff [TS]

  basis I don't think he's going anywhere [TS]

  I think he's going or maybe costco any [TS]

  of those companies starbucks that are so [TS]

  associated with that area it seems like [TS]

  kind of a no-brainer [TS]

  I'm sure they know give out bottled [TS]

  water and t-shirts and balloons at [TS]

  festivals and stuff but it just seems [TS]

  like it seems like such a no-brainer to [TS]

  invest in the community has a thing [TS]

  without any let alone trying to be a [TS]

  community that would be a desirable [TS]

  place for people to move you know great [TS]

  is it seems like half a dozen reasons [TS]

  why you would want to find the budget [TS]

  just even just to provide the nice [TS]

  things let alone the essential things [TS]

  well and that is that is assuming that [TS]

  uh that I and it's an assumption that i [TS]

  think most of the people making this [TS]

  argument make which is that a the [TS]

  assumption that our schools are are are [TS]

  basically trade schools right just [TS]

  making the economic impact argument that [TS]

  if we have better schools that makes [TS]

  better employees for amazon like that [TS]

  alone is a blunt instrument but it's a [TS]

  pretty I'll take it [TS]

  yeah right that was the reason for [TS]

  costco or Microsoft or or Vulcan or [TS]

  starbucks or or amazon too [TS]

  take an interest in Seattle Public [TS]

  Schools then you get the opportunity I [TS]

  mean you no way above that a thousand [TS]

  miles above that is the opportunity to [TS]

  be a true a benefactor and say schools [TS]

  need art programs schools need poetry [TS]

  schools need dance schools you know [TS]

  we're not just using schools as a [TS]

  training program for people to work in [TS]

  assembly scenarios or coding scenarios [TS]

  with coding is being the modern assembly [TS]

  but we want to we want our schools to to [TS]

  create citizens because those are the [TS]

  people who are going to really advance [TS]

  the ball in 30 years and you know that's [TS]

  an argument that i think a lot of [TS]

  capitalists would be really interested [TS]

  in right it just doesn't have it's just [TS]

  much easier to show up at the at the job [TS]

  fair with a bunch of balloons and say [TS]

  you know apply for a job as a coder here [TS]

  and you know and then maybe you'll get a [TS]

  chance to join our program where we are [TS]

  we're building windmills in South [TS]

  America that wins all around because you [TS]

  know gosh I don't get to San Francisco [TS]

  but you know just thinking about my [TS]

  friend you are already in the San [TS]

  Francisco I now but we were just talking [TS]

  with my wife about this and how I don't [TS]

  know it was the funny thing about a [TS]

  bubble is that the longer the bubble [TS]

  sticks around and the bigger the bubble [TS]

  gets the irony is that the bubble is not [TS]

  actually getting stronger [TS]

  the bubble is getting weaker as it gets [TS]

  bigger and that's true for soap bubbles [TS]

  and it's true for San Francisco bubbles [TS]

  the bigger it gets the more we feel the [TS]

  huge impact of this bubble here it is i [TS]

  mean it's bad i didn't just been working [TS]

  too much but it's bad here it's really [TS]

  really it's gross [TS]

  there's not a noble gross stuff going on [TS]

  right now in San Francisco because [TS]

  everybody wants to get in on this [TS]

  because you know growing bubble thing [TS]

  but you know again i'm not i'm not an [TS]

  econometrician but i think that public [TS]

  gets bigger it does become a lot easier [TS]

  to burst and you don't have to look more [TS]

  than five or six years in the past to [TS]

  see what happened in a bubble which is [TS]

  that everybody thought the housing [TS]

  prices were going to go up and up and up [TS]

  without regard to how those loans are [TS]

  being made and whether people should [TS]

  have them and look look what happened [TS]

  there so I mean how long is it going to [TS]

  be here before you got a bunch of people [TS]

  suddenly and i'm going to talk about the [TS]

  earthquake scenario I'm just talking [TS]

  about your basic economic tip wear boots [TS]

  and selling the bubbles not there is a [TS]

  bunch of people with leases and [TS]

  mortgages on places that are suddenly [TS]

  within say six months you know thirty [TS]

  percent over market value fifty percent [TS]

  over market value you know what I mean [TS]

  yeah and that's it's the the scary part [TS]

  in some ways you see so much destruction [TS]

  so many businesses that have been in [TS]

  families and artists people have been in [TS]

  town for dozens of years just going away [TS]

  because somebody else's that space [TS]

  go go go shut down all these bars [TS]

  because these condos moved in here now [TS]

  there's all this stuff and like each one [TS]

  of those little things in independent of [TS]

  one another is not like a huge momentous [TS]

  thing like any tragedy doesn't all [TS]

  happen in one day but you know that [TS]

  really starts to add up until there's [TS]

  gonna be a point i think we're more [TS]

  people going and not really sure I want [TS]

  to live there and it's gonna get super [TS]

  expensive until the day it doesn't get [TS]

  expensive and then we're going to have a [TS]

  cultural wasteland where everything was [TS]

  a little bit overpriced few months ago [TS]

  and now what the fuck are we gonna do [TS]

  what more was like when Walmart moves [TS]

  out of town so first shut down every [TS]

  place in walmart moves and you got [TS]

  nothing it's that that's terrifying to [TS]

  me to you know that people are coming in [TS]

  here and treating a little bit like a [TS]

  gold rush town without necessarily [TS]

  investing much and what would keep this [TS]

  place sustainable and desirable for [TS]

  people and this and we've talked about [TS]

  this before but this is the moment in [TS]

  world history I guess where we are you [TS]

  know we're up against the fact that a [TS]

  pure market is just a thought technology [TS]

  fright friend right and the the history [TS]

  of the eighteenth nineteenth and [TS]

  twentieth centuries [TS]

  our histories of political ideologies [TS]

  that attempted to rein in and govern [TS]

  market mercantilism and we saw a lot of [TS]

  different attempts to do it and you know [TS]

  unfortunately some of those attempts [TS]

  were very ideological they came at a [TS]

  time when technology allowed people you [TS]

  know to literally stamp numbers on other [TS]

  people right and mass murder them in [TS]

  conjunction with market reforms and that [TS]

  really discredited a lot of that a lot [TS]

  of the ideology and some of that [TS]

  ideology was way up in the sky and it [TS]

  and it did not reflect the actual truth [TS]

  of people but it doesn't mean that that [TS]

  that or the end result is that we just [TS]

  accept that market is the God and people [TS]

  keep saying to me like what would it [TS]

  mean it's the it's the market you can't [TS]

  make people want to come in they want to [TS]

  buy you can't stop them right and it's [TS]

  like the the markets a lot more comp [TS]

  complex than that and it is governor [TS]

  mobile well yeah I mean it's it seems a [TS]

  little bit i ran a little bit [TS]

  intellectually flabby to just say well [TS]

  supply and demand are these natural [TS]

  forces in the world haha but because [TS]

  been hella hella yes because there's a [TS]

  lot more to it than that i saw an [TS]

  article in the paper in the last six [TS]

  months about it's become very easy i [TS]

  don't know i always think about parking [TS]

  because you know the number of cars in [TS]

  San Francisco versus number of spaces is [TS]

  just as completely bananas and right now [TS]

  there are there it's pretty easy like [TS]

  you can walk down the big Street near my [TS]

  house and CM almost every cannot almost [TS]

  every car but probably third have the [TS]

  cars have a disabled permit if you [TS]

  disable permit you get a parking meter [TS]

  for free very desirable and last I heard [TS]

  the number of disabled permits that have [TS]

  been [TS]

  given out versus the number of spaces in [TS]

  the city this is approximately twice as [TS]

  many just disabled permanent way I think [TS]

  that was accurate here's another fun one [TS]

  of my wife just changed jobs [TS]

  she's going back to like a real career [TS]

  full-time career and so she's going to [TS]

  this new she working on this device new [TS]

  campus on in town but she found out that [TS]

  of course it's impossible to park you [TS]

  know you you could take me but then [TS]

  that's gonna be an hour and half to two [TS]

  hours so she drives a lot and that might [TS]

  be thirty bucks a day she found out that [TS]

  at the main campus where the hospital is [TS]

  for ucsf you know the waiting list is [TS]

  for employee parking 25 years there's [TS]

  two things that are funny about that one [TS]

  thing that's funny about that is that [TS]

  it's a fucking 25 year waiting list to [TS]

  get a parking permit but then what makes [TS]

  it extra funny it's still there still [TS]

  people adding their name to that list [TS]

  that's the market there's the market for [TS]

  you because that same but it's so good [TS]

  well and as I keep saying up here and [TS]

  it's true san francisco right from the [TS]

  from the day that San Francisco was [TS]

  founded until the last 10 years you [TS]

  could be a working-class person and live [TS]

  almost there anywhere i mean you know [TS]

  there are a few neighborhoods you [TS]

  couldn't live in but for the most part [TS]

  you could live in downtown San Francisco [TS]

  as a working-class person and you could [TS]

  do that all the way through until just [TS]

  recently and in Seattle that's been true [TS]

  until just five ten years ago you could [TS]

  be a working-class person and let's [TS]

  choose any neighborhood you wanted to [TS]

  live in and live there and so in the [TS]

  hundred and fifty plus years that [TS]

  Seattle's been a city for us to say well [TS]

  in the last five years you can't be a [TS]

  working-class person and live anywhere [TS]

  in the city and that's the new normal [TS]

  and that's just how it is that's just [TS]

  how markets work sorry market john sorry [TS]

  next that's just how it is i mean what [TS]

  are you some kind of communist what do [TS]

  you want to poop like the markets and [TS]

  that's how it is so figures on I want to [TS]

  change natural law black habla figure [TS]

  something else out because you can't do [TS]

  anything about that and it's like one [TS]

  of those mentalities is crazy you know [TS]

  and I don't think it is that you should [TS]

  be able to live anywhere in Seattle [TS]

  still as we have always been able to do [TS]

  I don't think that that is the crazy 1i [TS]

  think the crazy one is that if you're [TS]

  working class person you should have to [TS]

  you have to drive 45 minutes and pay [TS]

  thirty dollars a day and parking because [TS]

  what we've decided now is that the [TS]

  market has just determined that Seattle [TS]

  land is worth more than diamonds and the [TS]

  reason for that is that that's where [TS]

  people you know that's because people [TS]

  want to walk to people who have $250,000 [TS]

  your jobs want to walk to work [TS]

  it's like that is good but we didn't do [TS]

  very good planning right and planning is [TS]

  the is the key and and a sense that that [TS]

  none of these things are set in stone [TS]

  capitalism did not win any any like epic [TS]

  battle of ideologies so that it is just [TS]

  unassailable from here on out and it has [TS]

  its acolytes who are going to argue for [TS]

  it and they will call you a communist if [TS]

  you try and talk about any kind of [TS]

  regulation and there are people who [TS]

  believe that governments are the soul of [TS]

  evil but the fact is this is an ongoing [TS]

  process we're still trying to navigate [TS]

  how to be human beings and govern [TS]

  ourselves and its ongoing and where an [TS]

  exciting moment and and the pressure [TS]

  that's being put on us by this by this [TS]

  insanity is the pressure that's going to [TS]

  develop new thinking and that should be [TS]

  always exciting to us you know [TS]

  yeah new thinking and the people in San [TS]

  Francisco and New York City and in [TS]

  Seattle who are realizing like you know [TS]

  my house was worth 200 thousand dollars [TS]

  in 2002 then it was worth 500 [TS]

  some dollars in 2007 that seems crazy [TS]

  yeah then it was worth a hundred and [TS]

  ninety eight thousand dollars in 2007 [TS]

  and a half seems crazy and now it's [TS]

  worth 600 thousand dollars in 2015 and [TS]

  I'm starting to see a pattern which is [TS]

  that that is crazy [TS]

  yep and so what do you do [TS]

  lay down did you lay down in your [TS]

  bathtub and eat a meatball sandwich or [TS]

  you run for fucking City Council [TS]

  yeah i agree i translated to my kid like [TS]

  why you know it you know she's drills at [TS]

  school my homeboy welcome welcome [TS]

  welcome to the 2010 xian drills like you [TS]

  mean earthquake drills know they [TS]

  literally giving drills now they have [TS]

  yeah they have different drills to get [TS]

  fire girls you know they have lockdown [TS]

  drills you believe that for a gun cases [TS]

  like a school lockdown but the point is [TS]

  the guy you know you gotta try to [TS]

  explain to a kid like I'm trying to [TS]

  split look I understand that you have [TS]

  made a great Chinese wall of stuffed [TS]

  animals across your room and that's the [TS]

  thing that you don't want to disturb but [TS]

  like it's important for you to leave a [TS]

  space in there so because if there's a [TS]

  fire [TS]

  I don't want to scare you here but if [TS]

  there's a fire you're gonna want to be [TS]

  able to get out of the house without [TS]

  tripping on a pair and it's very [TS]

  difficult to explain why we have to [TS]

  practice these things like a fire drill [TS]

  or any that's why we have to practice [TS]

  them in moments of quiet repose do it [TS]

  until it starts to feel like it's not [TS]

  going to be a panic because when the [TS]

  actual fire happens you don't you don't [TS]

  have time to think the poor analogy I'm [TS]

  trying to make here is that the problem [TS]

  is now we're in the middle of a blaze in [TS]

  our town itself to some extent in your [TS]

  town coming [TS]

  well it's it's kind of it's kind of too [TS]

  late to figure out what this fire [TS]

  strategy is because now we just need to [TS]

  focus on putting out the the blazes yeah [TS]

  right i mean in San Francisco you can't [TS]

  even live in oakland anymore right [TS]

  nope nope shoes and my wife is talking [TS]

  cuz it's certainly sure thought about [TS]

  and yeah just go it's actually not too [TS]

  bad you know it's just only like it's [TS]

  like a two-hour Bart trip pretty much [TS]

  it's like wow talk about quality of life [TS]

  yeah no no it's pretty bad i'm anxious [TS]

  to see you next to see how this [TS]

  continues to evolve and it's going [TS]

  pretty fast [TS]

  I just saw on your Twitter [TS]

  her we shouldn't talk about this [TS]

  probably you know you raise good money [TS]

  it looks like oh uh in my campaign [TS]

  yeah i'm now I'm failing at every on [TS]

  every count here your Roderick Roderick [TS]

  twitter account just retweeted something [TS]

  that says you to pass your competitor [TS]

  and fundraising oh no not-not-not my not [TS]

  the big guy [TS]

  oh this is a little guy yeah he the big [TS]

  guys got got tons and tons of money [TS]

  because he's you know he's got tons of [TS]

  money tons of money because you know [TS]

  because his he has actually fewer [TS]

  contributors than we do but his [TS]

  contributors all give seven hundred [TS]

  dollars right right which is the maximum [TS]

  and our contributors a lot of them you [TS]

  know give 25 bucks and that's what they [TS]

  can afford and that is amazing but it [TS]

  makes you know it makes the makes [TS]

  fundraising more of a challenge and the [TS]

  thing is like I'm a huge supporter of [TS]

  campaign finance reform and now I see [TS]

  how much better it would be even in [TS]

  something as small as the city council [TS]

  race let alone imagining campaign [TS]

  finance reform international skip the [TS]

  Senate race what a difference that would [TS]

  make you know think about the million [TS]

  plus dollars you have to raise and every [TS]

  dollar you take from somebody they [TS]

  handed to you and look you in the eye [TS]

  and go you're not gonna fuck me later [TS]

  when I need you to change the law for my [TS]

  bulldozer company are you and you know [TS]

  you see it everyday like oh Jesus uh no [TS]

  sir thank you know you've got that [TS]

  you've got half the check in your hand [TS]

  and he's like you know one day I'm gonna [TS]

  ask you for a favor that and then at the [TS]

  end this day but make them look what [TS]

  they did to my beautiful boy you get a [TS]

  lot of you could you seek a lot of help [TS]

  from morticians you know you probably [TS]

  grant a lot of favors the morticians you [TS]

  know how this business works [TS]

  you don't you come to my daughter's [TS]

  wedding and you asked me for this [TS]

  this is that's like Marlon fact that [TS]

  something your deck and the only 1i know [TS]

  you know my dad and Marlon Brando once [TS]

  had a confrontation [TS]

  what ya can tell it [TS]

  uh well i mean their protein know the [TS]

  statute of limitations has run out right [TS]

  it's true it's true like in person in an [TS]

  in-person of [TS]

  an in-person confrontation over a over [TS]

  lady here are shitting me [TS]

  I'm not I'm not shitting you what era in [TS]

  the nineteen fifties so my dad was an [TS]

  wasn't an actor [TS]

  what I was one of his like it would you [TS]

  know my dad always wanted to be you know [TS]

  one of them demons [TS]

  yeah and was but in the fifties when he [TS]

  was a lawyer during and drinking he also [TS]

  was a member of a theater group in [TS]

  seattle the Cirque theater that did [TS]

  productions in the round and in the [TS]

  fifties he was doing a play at the [TS]

  Cirque and young actress by the name of [TS]

  rita moreno what was his co-star in a [TS]

  play and my dad and Rita Moreno had a [TS]

  little some sort of little you know time [TS]

  Wow and a one-night my dad came out of [TS]

  the theater with Rita Moreno and Marlon [TS]

  Brando was waiting in the shadows [TS]

  waiting in the in the bushes as my dad [TS]

  described it [TS]

  and he and rita moreno were already [TS]

  acquainted and were also having a fair [TS]

  decor [TS]

  hmm this is you know early fifties and [TS]

  they had a they had a little bit of a [TS]

  you know a confrontation in the bushes [TS]

  didn't you no no no no one raised fists [TS]

  it was just like everybody I retired my [TS]

  dad with her murder and you know that [TS]

  and I was like whatever and then you [TS]

  know I think that she saw that Marlon [TS]

  Brando was of the two of them the one [TS]

  that was probably your dad had to live [TS]

  with that [TS]

  soifer I mean speaking as someone who [TS]

  has had similar sorts of experiences [TS]

  you've been in the bushes [TS]

  I've been in the bushes but not with [TS]

  marlon brando but with you know other [TS]

  younger Brando's you know you take you [TS]

  take you take that away you walk you [TS]

  walk away with that you realize like you [TS]

  know we're all were all just just a [TS]

  couple of kisses away from Kevin Bacon [TS]

  there's you know there's nothing that [TS]

  really special about other people [TS]

  it's just that some of them are really [TS]

  more beautiful and talented movie and [TS]

  and you know what it out what how do you [TS]

  mean basically how you how you deal with [TS]

  that information how you shoulder that [TS]

  burden it determines your course in life [TS]

  I mean you could you could at my dad [TS]

  could it could have dived into those [TS]

  bushes he could grab Martin brand Marlon [TS]

  Brando around there Martin Brando he [TS]

  could've grabbed him Martin Brando [TS]

  around the ankles and said take me with [TS]

  you up here Karl Malden [TS]

  [Music] [TS]