Roderick on the Line

Ep. 154: "West Coast Noncommittal"


00:00:00   this episode of Roderick on the line is [TS]

00:00:01   sponsored by cards against humanity this [TS]

00:00:04   month they ask paul and storm to help me [TS]

00:00:06   say hi to john [TS]

00:00:09   dinner [TS]

00:00:15   all i need is you [TS]

00:00:19   I [TS]

00:00:26   [Music] [TS]

00:00:34   hello hello how are you today [TS]

00:00:38   that's right oh that's just swell Bob's [TS]

00:00:41   your uncle my raccoon hat on and i'm [TS]

00:00:46   ready to broadcast as a side note we do [TS]

00:00:49   that for 90 minutes it's rob but you [TS]

00:00:52   gotta keep moving you gotta get out of [TS]

00:00:53   the way that's number one and number two [TS]

00:00:54   what that in your pipe and smoke it [TS]

00:00:56   take it to the bank and Johnny like [TS]

00:01:01   nothing I've done this [TS]

00:01:02   the amazing thing is you know that you [TS]

00:01:05   know that quality when you look at a [TS]

00:01:06   really old photographs of people like [TS]

00:01:09   you look at you find a photograph of an [TS]

00:01:10   of a whole class of from school [TS]

00:01:13   you look more like you know but they're [TS]

00:01:14   adults like a technical school or [TS]

00:01:16   something you look at their pictures and [TS]

00:01:18   their faces there there's the [TS]

00:01:20   physiognomy is just look old [TS]

00:01:23   oh yeah they don't look like modern [TS]

00:01:25   people who and then when you listen to [TS]

00:01:27   recordings of the way people talked in [TS]

00:01:30   old movies radio I don't talk like [TS]

00:01:34   normal people either they talk like old [TS]

00:01:38   only like maybe civilians not like [TS]

00:01:40   training broadcaster types of you [TS]

00:01:42   the thing is the difference today [TS]

00:01:42   everybody wants to be on TV and radio so [TS]

00:01:46   everybody's already you could do a man [TS]

00:01:48   on the street a person on the street and [TS]

00:01:49   they're going to have a bit move back [TS]

00:01:51   then you hear interviews with people [TS]

00:01:53   from like the fifties and sixties it's [TS]

00:01:54   delightful because they they sound like [TS]

00:01:56   normal people they're normal people and [TS]

00:01:58   also there's a bit yeah [TS]

00:02:00   when you look at those classic movies [TS]

00:02:01   from the from the nineteen thirties or [TS]

00:02:03   the you know the early talkies there's [TS]

00:02:06   that kind of almost British quality to [TS]

00:02:09   the way they speak in their very you [TS]

00:02:12   know like there's a but but at the same [TS]

00:02:14   time there's a there's a cut a self [TS]

00:02:20   awareness of the of their diction right [TS]

00:02:23   that feels a little bit put on it is i [TS]

00:02:27   think i think this is god dammit I'm [TS]

00:02:29   gonna have to not using the internet now [TS]

00:02:30   this comes up twice a year and I need to [TS]

00:02:32   find out what this is called but it was [TS]

00:02:35   I think it's the way that people were [TS]

00:02:36   trained elocution I bet you're part of [TS]

00:02:40   it part of it is stagecraft out of being [TS]

00:02:44   in plays and stuff but then you know in [TS]

00:02:47   the early days [TS]

00:02:47   we learned from singing in the rain John [TS]

00:02:49   you have to speak very clearly your [TS]

00:02:51   voice you probably you probably sound [TS]

00:02:52   like a clarinet when you talk you got to [TS]

00:02:53   have a real resonant voice but I think [TS]

00:02:56   that's that was the where they called [TS]

00:02:59   like the received pronunciation of [TS]

00:03:01   Hollywood yes you know like the BBC [TS]

00:03:03   english i think that was our version of [TS]

00:03:05   that with the received Hollywood [TS]

00:03:06   pronunciation well and this is one of [TS]

00:03:08   the you know I've said for many years [TS]

00:03:10   that I believe that the English language [TS]

00:03:14   has continued to evolve as it has moved [TS]

00:03:17   away from its form its place of origin [TS]

00:03:20   and that actually the the most perfectly [TS]

00:03:25   spoken english is that which is spoken [TS]

00:03:29   by the educated people of Alaska [TS]

00:03:32   mhm because it's been through every gate [TS]

00:03:36   right it's it's it's made its way [TS]

00:03:39   through all this sort of Midwestern [TS]

00:03:41   nasal and southern drawl and west coast [TS]

00:03:45   non-committal and it's made its way [TS]

00:03:49   isn't that the Jon west coast [TS]

00:03:51   non-committal west coast non-committal [TS]

00:03:52   you hear it all the time it's you know [TS]

00:03:55   it's kind of spoken from your teeth but [TS]

00:03:58   then you get to Alaska and every you [TS]

00:04:00   know everyone since Alaska has been so [TS]

00:04:03   recently settled by Europeans right it's [TS]

00:04:06   a it's a mishmash of all the different [TS]

00:04:08   spoken english 'as and we have refined [TS]

00:04:11   it until it has become perfect and you [TS]

00:04:16   know it is broadcaster English but even [TS]

00:04:19   better and when I want to advance this [TS]

00:04:22   theory to people for instance from [TS]

00:04:23   England they find it laughable but they [TS]

00:04:28   are still speaking a kind of archaic [TS]

00:04:30   english some leftover hodgepodge some [TS]

00:04:34   steak and kidney pie that's been left [TS]

00:04:36   out on the counter snap and it [TS]

00:04:41   meanwhile we have been well right here [TS]

00:04:44   in Alaska perfecting a language that's [TS]

00:04:46   right we have we have we [TS]

00:04:47   we've sent it through a thousand cheese [TS]

00:04:49   clubs and here it is the best version [TS]

00:04:53   not some not some Boston you know some [TS]

00:04:59   Boston baked beans [TS]

00:05:01   means of English know there's Alaskan [TS]

00:05:04   English the enemy hate beans and pie is [TS]

00:05:06   he perfect version food I can I have it [TS]

00:05:10   the problem is Alaska has a very small [TS]

00:05:11   population and everyone else is allied [TS]

00:05:15   against this theory but i really do [TS]

00:05:17   think there's something to it is it [TS]

00:05:19   anything that you can demonstrate well I [TS]

00:05:21   demonstrated only in the perfect way [TS]

00:05:24   that i speak english you just blew my [TS]

00:05:26   mind [TS]

00:05:27   hmm i've been getting the demo the whole [TS]

00:05:28   time that's right that's right [TS]

00:05:31   if you can I mean and it and there are [TS]

00:05:33   some there are some small like glitches [TS]

00:05:37   write some some brief moment some max [TS]

00:05:41   headroom moments where you see you see [TS]

00:05:43   the behind the curtain [TS]

00:05:44   mm see the see the matrix for instance i [TS]

00:05:47   do say everybody everybody you know [TS]

00:05:51   everybody over here you you got you you [TS]

00:05:54   know i don't like me deal that you got [TS]

00:05:55   several that i know i've got several now [TS]

00:05:57   wait a minute you're saying several you [TS]

00:05:59   have you you can name more than one [TS]

00:06:00   everybody what's the name of the place [TS]

00:06:05   where you did you show last year on dude [TS]

00:06:07   what's goin on the rendezvous [TS]

00:06:12   yeah how's that supposed to be [TS]

00:06:14   pronounced i think its rendezvous [TS]

00:06:16   it's French I like the way you say it [TS]

00:06:19   but i know i say this because you know [TS]

00:06:21   i'm being defensive because I have more [TS]

00:06:24   of these and I realized and then once [TS]

00:06:26   people start pointing out that become [TS]

00:06:27   self-conscious [TS]

00:06:27   yeah you know the people yell at me for [TS]

00:06:29   saying Sasquatch almost a sasquatch [TS]

00:06:32   sasquatch [TS]

00:06:33   what about what your kids put on to go [TS]

00:06:35   to bed at night cameras pajamas [TS]

00:06:38   yeah but what do you say well I don't [TS]

00:06:41   know I'm really come on the horns of a [TS]

00:06:42   dilemma between pajamas and pajamas [TS]

00:06:44   pajamas [TS]

00:06:46   yeah that doesn't settle fancy come on [TS]

00:06:48   that's like arms [TS]

00:06:49   ok thank you John god fucking dammit on [TS]

00:06:54   on is like writing a sentence without an [TS]

00:06:57   oxford comma mon is on is terrible onto [TS]

00:07:00   is terrible and it really it really buy [TS]

00:07:03   and the thing is my wife the thing is he [TS]

00:07:05   this is you know what it's like to be in [TS]

00:07:06   a relationship right [TS]

00:07:07   barely but [TS]

00:07:10   you don't know what it get the better [TS]

00:07:16   throw it out the window the better wipe [TS]

00:07:19   my tears with it you know i have said i [TS]

00:07:23   don't know i'm not saying i have success [TS]

00:07:24   with this but I think a big part of [TS]

00:07:26   being in any kind of a long-term [TS]

00:07:27   relationship is learning the things that [TS]

00:07:29   only you were allowed to be right about [TS]

00:07:31   oh if you can if you can minimize the [TS]

00:07:33   number of things that only you are [TS]

00:07:35   allowed to be right about here you [TS]

00:07:36   thought technology that's a thought [TS]

00:07:38   technology because i think it makes you [TS]

00:07:39   a better person and i'm pretty sure even [TS]

00:07:42   though you may not you may still think [TS]

00:07:44   in your mind that you need to be right [TS]

00:07:45   about something [TS]

00:07:46   there's just so much stuff where I want [TS]

00:07:47   to really keep my powder dry right and [TS]

00:07:50   the thing is i also know how desperately [TS]

00:07:52   fucked up i am so I'm always looking for [TS]

00:07:54   improvement opportunities right but i [TS]

00:07:55   have to say there are some things I [TS]

00:07:58   capitulated on on because everybody [TS]

00:08:02   well because of my lady everybody in her [TS]

00:08:04   family says on so I'm the only one in [TS]

00:08:06   the family that refers to an su instead [TS]

00:08:09   of on soon they think I'm talking about [TS]

00:08:11   you know insects or something like that [TS]

00:08:12   but then sometimes I find myself saying [TS]

00:08:14   yeah that's right Ellie ya later in the [TS]

00:08:16   month we're going to your on uncle's [TS]

00:08:17   house back because I catch myself having [TS]

00:08:21   to speak it phonetically all all all all [TS]

00:08:24   alcohol i don't know i guess they see [TS]

00:08:26   why but i I've got through this with a [TS]

00:08:28   few people like I was talking to another [TS]

00:08:30   program about how you take the first [TS]

00:08:32   name of the guy who is the deputy on [TS]

00:08:35   Andy Griffith you take the phenomenon of [TS]

00:08:38   Sun coming up in the morning and I [TS]

00:08:39   pronounce both of those the same up a [TS]

00:08:42   bar need on party down and Dawn ok now [TS]

00:08:47   do you see there's any different [TS]

00:08:48   dawn and dawn so they're easy i'm sorry [TS]

00:08:52   are you saying that if you're saying [TS]

00:08:53   differently right yeah dawn [TS]

00:08:55   ok this is this is my color this is like [TS]

00:08:57   me and color blindness and not to be [TS]

00:08:58   able assist but this is I can't really [TS]

00:09:01   hear that difference you cannot hear [TS]

00:09:03   that are being gone and dawn [TS]

00:09:07   haha this is a prank and that's okay [TS]

00:09:10   well I no that's no that's because I [TS]

00:09:13   feel like I feel like the vast majority [TS]

00:09:15   of our listeners would be able to hear [TS]

00:09:17   that i was pronouncing a whole different [TS]

00:09:19   word i'm never gonna be a good idea [TS]

00:09:21   professional I i know people from the [TS]

00:09:22   tri-state area i feel like people from [TS]

00:09:24   the tri-state area will say do one you [TS]

00:09:28   buy tristate area you mean and you mean [TS]

00:09:30   New Mexico Arizona and Colorado the [TS]

00:09:33   original the OG now i'm talking about [TS]

00:09:35   that and you got your new york new [TS]

00:09:36   jersey pennsylvania triads yeah right I [TS]

00:09:39   get you I don't know and you know it's [TS]

00:09:41   just it's it's funny because like I [TS]

00:09:42   don't think of myself as being i know [TS]

00:09:44   people who are very sensitive about the [TS]

00:09:45   pronunciation and in the same way that [TS]

00:09:47   you might be sensitive about like a lazy [TS]

00:09:50   eye or something you know for all people [TS]

00:09:52   because they feel like they are [TS]

00:09:53   overcoming some some like regionalism [TS]

00:09:56   maybe but also we talked about this at [TS]

00:10:00   phenomenon and I have some very smart [TS]

00:10:02   people have the same problem where if [TS]

00:10:04   you're a reader and especially if you're [TS]

00:10:06   an internet radio I see you know you [TS]

00:10:08   know where I'm going with this yes and [TS]

00:10:09   you've read a word you have one of these [TS]

00:10:11   I remember I can't remember what the [TS]

00:10:12   word is but you'll have read a name or [TS]

00:10:15   you have read you know a given word [TS]

00:10:17   potentially thousands of times you might [TS]

00:10:20   actually no more than eighty percent of [TS]

00:10:22   the population about this noun when [TS]

00:10:24   you've never actually had to say it out [TS]

00:10:26   loud but wait i said i used one of the [TS]

00:10:28   very beginning of this program I i use [TS]

00:10:31   the word physiognomy which allows you to [TS]

00:10:34   zero physiognomies physiognomies me and [TS]

00:10:37   I and neither one of them sounds right [TS]

00:10:39   and I as a writer i have used this word [TS]

00:10:43   thousand times i think it all the time [TS]

00:10:45   like that that's an interest is [TS]

00:10:47   interesting physiognomy but I do [TS]

00:10:50   actually not know how it is pronounced [TS]

00:10:52   and every time I start to say the word [TS]

00:10:55   I've become aware i'm about I become [TS]

00:10:58   aware that I have gone too far in the [TS]

00:10:59   sentence to not say it and then i'm [TS]

00:11:02   committed and that somewhere halfway i'm [TS]

00:11:05   in the air right doing a Daffy hehe [TS]

00:11:09   don't have time to think about whether [TS]

00:11:10   you should have junk you just need to [TS]

00:11:11   figure out having a land without [TS]

00:11:12   breaking something and I'm going to land [TS]

00:11:14   it and I and I either and depending on [TS]

00:11:16   who the person i'm going to is I either [TS]

00:11:18   go physiognomy is yummy [TS]

00:11:21   because yeah I just I just I try and get [TS]

00:11:24   out of there i try to get to the ground [TS]

00:11:26   is life cycle through an array of every [TS]

00:11:28   conceivable pronunciation [TS]

00:11:29   mispronunciation and here's what you [TS]

00:11:31   look like you're genuinely damaged yeah [TS]

00:11:33   the problem is i have gone multiple [TS]

00:11:36   times two dictionaries and looked at the [TS]

00:11:38   jumble of upside-down use and other you [TS]

00:11:42   know diphthongs trying to figure out [TS]

00:11:44   what the pronunciation of that word is [TS]

00:11:46   and i get i can't make heads or tails of [TS]

00:11:49   it even when I really investigate it and [TS]

00:11:51   I never no one ever uses it no-one ever [TS]

00:11:54   says it out loud right right right [TS]

00:11:56   you're traveling sir [TS]

00:11:57   so I walk through the world waiting for [TS]

00:11:59   some waiting for someone else to say [TS]

00:12:01   that word to me so that i can i can at [TS]

00:12:03   least latch onto their pronunciation of [TS]

00:12:05   it and say fuck it I know one thing I've [TS]

00:12:09   heard it once but I'm not no one ever [TS]

00:12:11   speaks it and I think it's because no [TS]

00:12:12   one else knows how to pronounce it [TS]

00:12:14   I think that's I think it's too i think [TS]

00:12:15   as writerly people we tacitly understand [TS]

00:12:19   that if you don't know the meaning of a [TS]

00:12:21   word don't use it to make sure you could [TS]

00:12:24   you go you go look it up [TS]

00:12:26   that's good you're improving your word [TS]

00:12:28   power you know saying improve your word [TS]

00:12:30   power you want to prove your word power [TS]

00:12:32   I'm just saying though you might you [TS]

00:12:33   might want to be careful if you are [TS]

00:12:35   using the word and don't like the times [TS]

00:12:37   for example that I have said expendable [TS]

00:12:39   when I meant flexible [TS]

00:12:40   ok that was really super embarrassing [TS]

00:12:43   right I I used to say I used to say [TS]

00:12:47   momentum when I meant inertia [TS]

00:12:50   oh no I notice these things a lot more [TS]

00:12:53   than I used to and I don't think of [TS]

00:12:55   myself as a word nerd but i really like [TS]

00:12:57   i really like using the appropriate word [TS]

00:13:00   and it drives me crazy when i realized [TS]

00:13:02   i've been using an incorrect or in exact [TS]

00:13:04   word for a long time [TS]

00:13:06   yeah yeah the the hardest part of doing [TS]

00:13:12   that is getting corrected like the [TS]

00:13:16   momentum and inertia one I knew i was [TS]

00:13:18   using it wrong [TS]

00:13:19   I mean I knew I was it was one of those [TS]

00:13:21   things where you're searching you're [TS]

00:13:22   doing the Terminator and you're [TS]

00:13:24   searching your a your pc here heads-up [TS]

00:13:27   display feet for fuck you asshole [TS]

00:13:29   momentum asshole and and I and I just [TS]

00:13:33   didn't have inertia entered into my did [TS]

00:13:38   my you know my dictionary for that [TS]

00:13:40   application and it's not that I had [TS]

00:13:43   learned it I just hadn't gotten it [TS]

00:13:45   wasn't on the short list and i kept [TS]

00:13:47   getting to momentum and just saying it [TS]

00:13:50   because I wanted to get on with the [TS]

00:13:52   thought right and neat the bass player [TS]

00:13:55   of the decemberists once in a bar said [TS]

00:13:59   do you mean inertia and i was like i do [TS]

00:14:03   mean inertia thank you [TS]

00:14:06   and then that use of that word is now [TS]

00:14:10   tied to Nate query and I bet you still [TS]

00:14:17   think about it i cannot say the word and [TS]

00:14:20   then I cannot say inertia in the way [TS]

00:14:22   that I mean it's now without without [TS]

00:14:24   picturing him picturing his kindly face [TS]

00:14:26   you know i am and i happen to like him [TS]

00:14:29   very much and he meant he meant that in [TS]

00:14:30   a very nice what I mean he wasn't [TS]

00:14:31   ashamed people I I i still this is a [TS]

00:14:35   little bit of a call back but now for [TS]

00:14:38   the last few months every time that's [TS]

00:14:39   rare that i drink from a water fountain [TS]

00:14:41   but every time I drink from a water [TS]

00:14:42   fountain now I think of your friend that [TS]

00:14:44   I've never met who told me to think of [TS]

00:14:47   him when i drink from a water fountain [TS]

00:14:49   that's right oh my god it's it's it's [TS]

00:14:51   it's a it's a mental virus expanding 30 [TS]

00:14:54   years it's ridiculous and i'll bet you [TS]

00:14:56   right now there are people listening to [TS]

00:14:57   the show that are gonna go drink drink [TS]

00:14:59   from a water fountain they're gonna [TS]

00:15:00   think of me thinking of your friend that [TS]

00:15:03   they've never met language is a virus [TS]

00:15:05   who it's insane [TS]

00:15:07   he planted that bug knowingly well [TS]

00:15:10   because you say this [TS]

00:15:11   what a dick here's the thing and I you [TS]

00:15:13   know I don't have I feel myself like [TS]

00:15:17   like slowly grinding into permanent old [TS]

00:15:20   man mode it's happening to it so fast [TS]

00:15:23   when we started this podcast we're still [TS]

00:15:25   young men were a podcast of ideas and [TS]

00:15:28   now we are just let leibnitz and and the [TS]

00:15:33   and solar installer here's the thing I i [TS]

00:15:40   am not one of the i don't think i'm one [TS]

00:15:42   of those people that feels like the [TS]

00:15:43   language should be static is obviously [TS]

00:15:45   it's always evolving [TS]

00:15:47   you're not a member of the french [TS]

00:15:47   academy for instance who may know who [TS]

00:15:50   believes that we should say from a [TS]

00:15:52   bourgeois instead of cheeseburger about [TS]

00:15:56   the foremost booze wha [TS]

00:15:58   we used at least uh like to harass our [TS]

00:16:00   French literature teacher who is also [TS]

00:16:03   the French language teacher and so we [TS]

00:16:04   would just ask him asinine things in the [TS]

00:16:06   middle class all the time and we say [TS]

00:16:09   quickly said you know what is a [TS]

00:16:11   professor was called mr. Hixon just to [TS]

00:16:13   get on his nerves mr. Jackson how do you [TS]

00:16:14   sell say my nails salon perfect would [TS]

00:16:17   you say my maison parfait salon you [TS]

00:16:20   talking about flow barrage and you would [TS]

00:16:24   have to say might know my nails are [TS]

00:16:25   perfect as though I have just come from [TS]

00:16:27   the salon uh i was explaining to do my [TS]

00:16:32   daughter yesterday that the actual words [TS]

00:16:35   of a fresh acha the actual English [TS]

00:16:39   traditional singing that night [TS]

00:16:41   yeah and the actual translation should [TS]

00:16:44   be brother John brother John sleeping [TS]

00:16:49   are you sleeping on and she was just [TS]

00:16:51   like what [TS]

00:16:53   yeah this is insane I was like yeah I'm [TS]

00:16:55   telling you that's why we're in a very [TS]

00:16:58   tenuous military alliance with friends [TS]

00:17:01   that's true yeah yeah no absolutely [TS]

00:17:03   there's you know there's there's [TS]

00:17:04   cognates in his cognates you know i'm [TS]

00:17:06   saying i do my problem is and I you know [TS]

00:17:09   it's you I i like the evolution of [TS]

00:17:11   things i do get i'm not a big fan of [TS]

00:17:14   hella when I hear that I mean hella is [TS]

00:17:17   kind of the like as hella is to this [TS]

00:17:21   generation as you know was two hours in [TS]

00:17:23   some ways just in the sense that it [TS]

00:17:25   becomes something that you are just [TS]

00:17:26   you're putting in everywhere its that's [TS]

00:17:28   ok that's ok here's my general [TS]

00:17:30   overarching issue it's not really a [TS]

00:17:32   language problem it's a communication [TS]

00:17:33   problem i think there are probably think [TS]

00:17:35   pieces about this on medium right now I [TS]

00:17:38   think young people don't know how to [TS]

00:17:39   communicate with other people anymore [TS]

00:17:41   who talking more old man [TS]

00:17:44   well I for example I you think about [TS]

00:17:48   talking to somebody on the phone and [TS]

00:17:51   nobody likes try not to i know i know [TS]

00:17:53   nobody likes talking on the phone but [TS]

00:17:54   there are times when it is the quickest [TS]

00:17:56   path to communication [TS]

00:17:59   and I maybe this is just because again [TS]

00:18:01   because i was a little kid in a [TS]

00:18:02   different age but I speak very clearly [TS]

00:18:05   when I'm on the phone I focus very [TS]

00:18:09   heavily and I risk sounding like I'm [TS]

00:18:12   being very repetitious by making sure [TS]

00:18:13   that we all understood what we just said [TS]

00:18:15   and agreed right just just cuz i think [TS]

00:18:18   it's really useful to go i do that an [TS]

00:18:19   email to do that all the time just click [TS]

00:18:20   just to clarify we're meeting tomorrow / [TS]

00:18:23   tuesday that dumb stuff you know and [TS]

00:18:25   rest but I feel like I talk to so like [TS]

00:18:28   sometimes we get groceries delivered [TS]

00:18:29   from this place in town they have to [TS]

00:18:30   call if there's a replacement and [TS]

00:18:33   they're not even talking into the phone [TS]

00:18:36   I don't know what they're doing with [TS]

00:18:37   their phone but they don't they don't [TS]

00:18:39   know how to communicate they don't know [TS]

00:18:41   how to pause to let the other person [TS]

00:18:43   speak they don't have to account for [TS]

00:18:44   latency and a call it just just kind of [TS]

00:18:46   meandering like it's just yeah you're [TS]

00:18:48   talking about you forget this [TS]

00:18:50   mhm and I've heard it said turns out [TS]

00:18:52   I've heard it said that a lot of people [TS]

00:18:53   say a lot of people say that also means [TS]

00:18:57   not something to eye contact when they [TS]

00:18:58   talk em makes them uncomfortable ICS [TS]

00:19:02   mmog an emoji John you should get more [TS]

00:19:05   into emoji you know I'm really behind on [TS]

00:19:09   emojis i'm an old enough guy that I [TS]

00:19:11   can't see what happened emojis are they [TS]

00:19:13   all look like the turd right somebody [TS]

00:19:16   sent me like a a a winking devil cat not [TS]

00:19:20   a turd [TS]

00:19:21   I look over the top of my classes really [TS]

00:19:23   setting they occurred and that i'm here [TS]

00:19:26   today and what is that in that face [TS]

00:19:28   anxious is it scared what the turd face [TS]

00:19:31   no wonder people the turd face you get [TS]

00:19:33   is turn but yeah the other the other [TS]

00:19:35   thing is also the I refused to stop [TS]

00:19:38   using sentences and punctuation when i [TS]

00:19:41   text people and i'm told that that makes [TS]

00:19:43   me sound angry [TS]

00:19:44   OIC yeah right you need to end [TS]

00:19:47   everything with a ! three options at [TS]

00:19:50   them if you're saying thank you you're [TS]

00:19:52   supposed to say thanks with an [TS]

00:19:53   unnecessary ! failing at that you say [TS]

00:19:56   thanks with no punctuation well oh and [TS]

00:19:59   if you say thanks for the period it's [TS]

00:20:01   considered a fuck you [TS]

00:20:02   alright thanks thanks thanks [TS]

00:20:06   yeah well I you know I have struggled [TS]

00:20:09   with this a lot and I that is we have we [TS]

00:20:11   have really jumped the old man chart but [TS]

00:20:14   I've definitely struggled with the lack [TS]

00:20:16   of my socks so hard to put on where does [TS]

00:20:19   that other one go [TS]

00:20:20   I put two in the dryer I'm sure don't [TS]

00:20:23   they know old people like hard candy why [TS]

00:20:25   the jar so hard to open [TS]

00:20:27   yeah i do I have succumbed somewhat to [TS]

00:20:32   the ! a escalation because I I recognize [TS]

00:20:39   you know I do a lot of texting and I [TS]

00:20:41   recognize that the thanks with a period [TS]

00:20:44   is a little is a little bit of a it's a [TS]

00:20:50   little cold mayonnaise you know a little [TS]

00:20:52   bit of its like me but i have said hella [TS]

00:20:56   for 30 years and have hella is one of [TS]

00:21:02   those things like like dude or like like [TS]

00:21:09   in the early 90s late late eighties [TS]

00:21:12   there was a there was that verbal tic [TS]

00:21:16   that went around for a while where you'd [TS]

00:21:18   say like you know oh my god today is [TS]

00:21:20   beautiful and the other person will say [TS]

00:21:23   yeah it is yeah right and you'd be like [TS]

00:21:26   yeah it is [TS]

00:21:27   they're like yeah it is and it's it felt [TS]

00:21:30   like it was a challenge and then I [TS]

00:21:32   picked that up and a dude and and hella [TS]

00:21:36   both were words that i started using [TS]

00:21:38   initially as that uh I was charity so I [TS]

00:21:43   was parodied sarcastic yeah like Oh [TS]

00:21:45   hella and then it just became like I say [TS]

00:21:49   dude and have said dude I think it's [TS]

00:21:52   about a week-and-a-half yeah it off to [TS]

00:21:54   go from doing any better voice is a joke [TS]

00:21:56   to not being able to stop [TS]

00:21:58   yep and it was one of those for me and [TS]

00:22:00   and using a lot though [TS]

00:22:02   no I'm not like an animal I'm not like [TS]

00:22:04   some kinda like hella hella dude you've [TS]

00:22:07   got like it out is it [TS]

00:22:09   hello amount i do got the other one i've [TS]

00:22:11   been did I think i actually saw an [TS]

00:22:13   article somewhere about this recently [TS]

00:22:14   the the ascendance of no yeah or like [TS]

00:22:18   that up that moves real [TS]

00:22:20   good night was great like what happen [TS]

00:22:22   haha i do i I do it all the time no [TS]

00:22:25   really it was great [TS]

00:22:26   yeah I wanted to agree with somebody by [TS]

00:22:29   starting by saying no you so lately i [TS]

00:22:34   have really I I know what we're getting [TS]

00:22:36   at here which is that where relevant [TS]

00:22:39   well know that we're both very confused [TS]

00:22:42   because on the one hand we do want [TS]

00:22:44   language to be useful and meaningful and [TS]

00:22:47   and follow some rules right that seems [TS]

00:22:51   normal that seems regular at but then we [TS]

00:22:54   don't we don't want to stand in the way [TS]

00:22:57   of the the constant evolution of of [TS]

00:23:00   communication and be like old and be [TS]

00:23:03   angry about it but at the same time the [TS]

00:23:08   entire theme of this podcast for three [TS]

00:23:10   years has been that standards are [TS]

00:23:11   declining everywhere [TS]

00:23:13   yeah and we need to like that but like [TS]

00:23:17   pull up our pants and and go back to [TS]

00:23:19   work as at our jobs and so i don't know [TS]

00:23:24   i i'm talking about personally who i am [TS]

00:23:29   i'm navigating these these very [TS]

00:23:32   precipitous hills in my own life and [TS]

00:23:36   just wondering i cannot surrender right [TS]

00:23:38   that isn't in my nature to just [TS]

00:23:40   surrender i need to capitulate to do to [TS]

00:23:44   capitulate think that's the better word [TS]

00:23:46   but at the same time it's important to [TS]

00:23:49   listen and learn [TS]

00:23:51   you know there's there's there's there's [TS]

00:23:52   a lot of the I've been seeing this a lot [TS]

00:23:54   lately where people say like well you [TS]

00:23:56   just need to listen now and I go I'm [TS]

00:23:59   comfortable listening and learning i [TS]

00:24:02   really am I have been doing that my [TS]

00:24:03   whole life i like it it's a great thing [TS]

00:24:05   but at a certain point that like you [TS]

00:24:08   just need to listen is being used as a [TS]

00:24:10   way of saying you just need to [TS]

00:24:13   capitulate haha alright and yeah like [TS]

00:24:17   listening and learning is wonderful but [TS]

00:24:19   then it will get there there's also some [TS]

00:24:21   you know there needs to be some [TS]

00:24:24   back-and-forth or some pushback on some [TS]

00:24:25   ideas right for some more some asking to [TS]

00:24:28   clarify right asking to clarify or or [TS]

00:24:31   you know or just think [TS]

00:24:33   King churning on it right i mean there's [TS]

00:24:35   there's and other that little tick that [TS]

00:24:38   I just did which is to end every [TS]

00:24:40   sentence with right ? oh yeah super [TS]

00:24:43   annoying and I was pointed out it was [TS]

00:24:46   pointed out [TS]

00:24:47   not that I was doing it but i was at an [TS]

00:24:50   event where the hubby host you know a [TS]

00:24:53   very educated an erudite woman who was [TS]

00:24:55   giving a long presentation said right at [TS]

00:25:00   the end of every sentence until it was [TS]

00:25:04   you know until it rub it was like you [TS]

00:25:05   know you really notice it was like a [TS]

00:25:07   foghorn in the room and end it and you [TS]

00:25:10   know it didn't detract from like the [TS]

00:25:13   real smartness of the presentation it [TS]

00:25:16   just was like you started to wince at [TS]

00:25:19   the end of her senses like I'll got [TS]

00:25:20   ology did it again right [TS]

00:25:23   and pretty soon so you can notice but so [TS]

00:25:25   I don't know you know we do have an [TS]

00:25:29   obligate this is this must be the this [TS]

00:25:30   this must be be like the the the [TS]

00:25:37   terrible thing about middle-aged this [TS]

00:25:39   must be it [TS]

00:25:40   merlin which is just to stand athwart [TS]

00:25:42   two areas and to say now hold on wait [TS]

00:25:49   just everyone hold on justice and that [TS]

00:25:52   must be why middle-aged people are so [TS]

00:25:54   uncomfortable and why it's why this why [TS]

00:25:58   they buy red Corvette why it's talked [TS]

00:26:00   about is such a difficult time right and [TS]

00:26:03   we're experiencing it [TS]

00:26:05   yeah I'm because your enemy it's fine i [TS]

00:26:07   can't stop thinking this recent episode [TS]

00:26:08   of louie ck that the live show where he [TS]

00:26:11   he begins by being mad about the ways [TS]

00:26:13   treated at this cookware store fantastic [TS]

00:26:16   episode but you know in the woman [TS]

00:26:18   basically just confront him she's like [TS]

00:26:19   I'm 24 I on my own store in Manhattan is [TS]

00:26:21   this the way you always threatened by [TS]

00:26:23   being around young people and he's [TS]

00:26:24   getting his dander up and you know like [TS]

00:26:26   why don't you want to learn about [TS]

00:26:27   customer service since i got good wins [TS]

00:26:29   sonoma they'll treat you nice them look [TS]

00:26:31   look but you know because this Q 24 year [TS]

00:26:33   old asian woman who owns her own store [TS]

00:26:34   one kiss his ass like he's accustomed to [TS]

00:26:36   and she basically called the shit on it [TS]

00:26:38   goes like well you're you know you're [TS]

00:26:39   getting older you're becoming less [TS]

00:26:40   relevant if you want your kids to evolve [TS]

00:26:42   become better than you see things are [TS]

00:26:43   working out fine [TS]

00:26:44   that but it also makes you think you [TS]

00:26:48   know I i guess it was a long time before [TS]

00:26:49   I really thought about this just that [TS]

00:26:51   distinction between you talk about [TS]

00:26:53   having two people saying you should just [TS]

00:26:55   got listen I mean I think the first [TS]

00:26:57   distinction between listening and [TS]

00:26:58   hearing that i became aware of is that [TS]

00:27:00   you can hear stuff just stopped for you [TS]

00:27:03   have to hear what's going on around you [TS]

00:27:05   I hear traffic noise outside but i'm not [TS]

00:27:06   paying a ton of attention to it when I'm [TS]

00:27:08   listening I'm focusing my attention on [TS]

00:27:10   what people are saying with the [TS]

00:27:12   understand with the with the implicit [TS]

00:27:14   now I'm hearing triangle by I hear these [TS]

00:27:16   things but when I'm listening to them [TS]

00:27:18   i'm focusing my attention with with [TS]

00:27:20   partly the idea that i want to [TS]

00:27:22   understand it better but that was I [TS]

00:27:24   think that's a pretty good distinction [TS]

00:27:25   but a more recent one that's really been [TS]

00:27:27   occurring to me because internet is the [TS]

00:27:29   difference between hearing and listening [TS]

00:27:30   listening means that you pay attention [TS]

00:27:35   to something for more than content when [TS]

00:27:37   you I think when you listen to someone [TS]

00:27:39   you're looking to go way beyond what [TS]

00:27:41   they think they're saying what you think [TS]

00:27:44   they're saying to learn more about who [TS]

00:27:46   they are and what they think and the [TS]

00:27:48   context for why they're saying what [TS]

00:27:50   they're saying that you know god damn it [TS]

00:27:52   you fucking gamergate douchebags it [TS]

00:27:54   means more than just trying to [TS]

00:27:56   contradict the facts of what somebody [TS]

00:27:57   says right means trying to hear what [TS]

00:28:00   they're saying and then listen to why [TS]

00:28:02   they're saying it so that you can [TS]

00:28:04   understand the context for more than why [TS]

00:28:06   they're not looking for a note from you [TS]

00:28:09   on how they said it and what they said [TS]

00:28:10   they're looking for you to have some [TS]

00:28:12   empathy that sometimes means not talking [TS]

00:28:14   sometimes that empathy means you just [TS]

00:28:16   have to you're gonna have to sit here [TS]

00:28:17   it's like meditation it's not going to [TS]

00:28:19   take one minute to get good at this [TS]

00:28:20   you're going to be here for a while and [TS]

00:28:21   just not talk for a little while in [TS]

00:28:23   order to really understand what these [TS]

00:28:24   folks are talking about [TS]

00:28:26   yeah and all those listen that's listen [TS]

00:28:28   to me ultimately listening is an [TS]

00:28:29   emotional exercise as opposed to hearing [TS]

00:28:33   right and listening is so often right [TS]

00:28:37   the when someone says just listen to me [TS]

00:28:40   what their what they mean is don't ever [TS]

00:28:43   stone ever offer a solution like I'm [TS]

00:28:47   don't ever offer a critique I just want [TS]

00:28:51   you to listen as an emotional to be [TS]

00:28:55   emotionally receptive you know so many [TS]

00:28:57   people want [TS]

00:28:57   to just be heard and it's it's it's [TS]

00:29:01   alien to me because I'm you know I'm [TS]

00:29:05   from the beginning right I i was that I [TS]

00:29:10   was at a preschool meeting the other day [TS]

00:29:12   and then and that teacher got up and [TS]

00:29:14   said to everybody in the room can you [TS]

00:29:17   remember the first time that you really [TS]

00:29:19   felt heard by a teacher and everybody [TS]

00:29:23   you know knotted thoughtfully and she [TS]

00:29:24   was like I remember the first time I was [TS]

00:29:26   ever heard by a teacher i was in 11th [TS]

00:29:28   grade and the teacher you know really [TS]

00:29:30   heard my project and it and you know and [TS]

00:29:35   his response was what made me decide to [TS]

00:29:38   be a teacher myself you know and we went [TS]

00:29:41   around the room and everybody told the [TS]

00:29:43   story about the first time they were [TS]

00:29:45   ever heard really heard and noticed and [TS]

00:29:48   seen by a teacher and you know the the [TS]

00:29:54   problem for me was that there was never [TS]

00:29:55   a time in my life when I didn't feel [TS]

00:29:58   hurt by the teachers when I was three [TS]

00:30:02   years old I assumed I was being listened [TS]

00:30:06   to by the teachers and all the way [TS]

00:30:10   through school I never once occurred to [TS]

00:30:13   me that the teacher didn't know not only [TS]

00:30:16   you know my name and what I was working [TS]

00:30:18   on and and was validating my process but [TS]

00:30:22   was like celebrating me and I see it in [TS]

00:30:25   my daughter to like there's there's no [TS]

00:30:28   question in her mind that that that [TS]

00:30:32   everyone is listening to her and it's a [TS]

00:30:36   and I was sitting next to a woman who [TS]

00:30:38   was like well you know I no one ever [TS]

00:30:40   listen to me I but I got straight A's [TS]

00:30:42   and that's how I knew that's how they [TS]

00:30:44   knew me they knew me as the girl that [TS]

00:30:47   got straight a's but I you know I don't [TS]

00:30:48   think anybody I never spoke I was like [TS]

00:30:51   it's very different very different [TS]

00:30:54   experience that I've had and you know [TS]

00:30:58   and and in contrast to what what what [TS]

00:31:02   kind of surprised me was the majority [TS]

00:31:04   experience which was feeling unheard [TS]

00:31:06   and so you know that that my whole life [TS]

00:31:12   I've spent learning to listen without [TS]

00:31:16   offering a an opinion how boy because [TS]

00:31:22   you know though because the it was a it [TS]

00:31:27   was not my instinct right and I have [TS]

00:31:30   known a lot of strong people who have [TS]

00:31:33   said over and over since the time I was [TS]

00:31:34   22 years old i am going to i had a bad [TS]

00:31:37   day today I'm going to talk about it to [TS]

00:31:40   you and I would like you to just listen [TS]

00:31:42   and that was a that was a something it [TS]

00:31:46   when i was 18 19 20 it was really hard [TS]

00:31:48   for me to just listen [TS]

00:31:49   but I've learned I learned to do it it's [TS]

00:31:51   the it's like you say it's um it's one [TS]

00:31:54   of the things you do in a relationship [TS]

00:31:55   I'm trying to avoid the else in the room [TS]

00:31:57   its i think that what you're describing [TS]

00:32:00   is absolutely true and i think that for [TS]

00:32:02   something like 25 years now we looked at [TS]

00:32:04   it as this Mars and Venus thing where I [TS]

00:32:07   mean I was all speak for myself it [TS]

00:32:09   I didn't realize how terrible i was at [TS]

00:32:11   just listening to people for a very long [TS]

00:32:13   time i realize i'm still not as good at [TS]

00:32:15   it as like as I can be but i'm at least [TS]

00:32:18   aware that i need to just fucking relax [TS]

00:32:20   and let the other person talk sometimes [TS]

00:32:23   not just because you know one thing also [TS]

00:32:25   with with both of us is not an excuse or [TS]

00:32:27   a to forgiveness but when we say things [TS]

00:32:29   like right like you don't mean like I [TS]

00:32:32   think that shows in some ways that where [TS]

00:32:34   it's not just that we want you to agree [TS]

00:32:35   with us like I'm constantly doubting [TS]

00:32:37   whether i said what i was actually [TS]

00:32:39   thinking whether my thought made any [TS]

00:32:41   sense and whether i'm really just having [TS]

00:32:43   if I'm just not realizing i haven't [TS]

00:32:45   faced yet i'm constantly thinking do I [TS]

00:32:47   make any sense when I speak to people [TS]

00:32:49   don't want to hear myself and I say [TS]

00:32:50   things like that make sense [TS]

00:32:51   like I know how needy that sounds but [TS]

00:32:53   part of that is actually me going like [TS]

00:32:55   ah my brain just runs all the time it's [TS]

00:32:59   just going and going and going and [TS]

00:33:00   sometimes it's like little gumball [TS]

00:33:01   machine your pop little slot open and [TS]

00:33:03   sometimes stuff comes out and i'm just [TS]

00:33:04   not even sure if that constitutes [TS]

00:33:06   anything meaningful so part of that is [TS]

00:33:08   when you say things like it becomes a [TS]

00:33:09   tick but it starts out as from that [TS]

00:33:11   terrible place [TS]

00:33:12   um I mean to me that's even different [TS]

00:33:15   from you know what I mean yeah you know [TS]

00:33:16   what I mean or like you know Walter [TS]

00:33:18   Sobchak am I wrong like this or does [TS]

00:33:20   all mean kind of different things yeah I [TS]

00:33:21   was it was there was a little bit of [TS]

00:33:23   adjustment when you and I got to be [TS]

00:33:25   friends when you would get to the end of [TS]

00:33:27   someone go right and i would hear that [TS]

00:33:30   means I'm done talking [TS]

00:33:31   well I was here like that you expected [TS]

00:33:33   an affirmation and then later later on [TS]

00:33:36   as time went on I realized that you were [TS]

00:33:38   seriously asking correct am I correct or [TS]

00:33:41   sometimes yeah for sure you know do you [TS]

00:33:44   d-does what I've just said and does my [TS]

00:33:46   perception square with your perception [TS]

00:33:47   but beyond that the beyond the beyond [TS]

00:33:50   the Mars and Venus part it uh it is [TS]

00:33:53   something that I think most men I [TS]

00:33:55   probably in America men of our age [TS]

00:33:59   how are really thinking about this maybe [TS]

00:34:02   I'm projecting here but i was thinking [TS]

00:34:03   about it seriously for the first time [TS]

00:34:06   because we've expected that everybody [TS]

00:34:07   was going to listen to us and what we [TS]

00:34:08   had to say and if they didn't they were [TS]

00:34:10   they were dumber black like that they [TS]

00:34:12   just couldn't get like how what we're [TS]

00:34:15   saying should be received wisdom in some [TS]

00:34:18   ways and I don't know it's uh I'm [TS]

00:34:20   finding it a very very interesting [TS]

00:34:23   challenge to get better at that and that [TS]

00:34:27   was despite back to that other personal [TS]

00:34:28   example those my nicely the worst like [TS]

00:34:30   if I had a look at girlfriend who had a [TS]

00:34:32   bad day i was i was always ready to just [TS]

00:34:35   be the problem solver before she could [TS]

00:34:37   even she would exhale start to speak a [TS]

00:34:39   sentence and i would start coming up [TS]

00:34:41   with ideas why don't you take a bath [TS]

00:34:42   want to take a walk should get some [TS]

00:34:44   dinner [TS]

00:34:44   oh that probably wasn't what you thought [TS]

00:34:46   it was and i'm offering all these things [TS]

00:34:47   to do what to a solve a problem but [TS]

00:34:49   importantly be just make her feel better [TS]

00:34:52   and everything is that's not my job like [TS]

00:34:55   is I'm not there to make her feel better [TS]

00:34:57   i'm here to shut the fuck up and let her [TS]

00:34:58   describe what it is clear that what [TS]

00:35:00   she's feeling [TS]

00:35:01   although part of your job as being as [TS]

00:35:04   being a you know in a relationship with [TS]

00:35:05   somebody is to make them feel better and [TS]

00:35:07   that's what's now just not always on my [TS]

00:35:10   terms [TS]

00:35:10   yeah i think the difference between [TS]

00:35:11   making somebody making somebody feel [TS]

00:35:13   better about something versus just [TS]

00:35:15   trying to make everything go back to [TS]

00:35:18   this the way that you're comfortable [TS]

00:35:19   with [TS]

00:35:20   I mean this is the primary the primary [TS]

00:35:23   problem in my mother's relationship with [TS]

00:35:25   my sister which is that my mother is a [TS]

00:35:28   solver and my sister wants [TS]

00:35:31   to talk about our feelings and so [TS]

00:35:34   although they're you know they're [TS]

00:35:37   mother-daughter bond is is very strong [TS]

00:35:41   my sister comes in and starts to vent [TS]

00:35:44   about her day and my mom says well why [TS]

00:35:46   don't you why don't you talk to your [TS]

00:35:49   boss tomorrow and tell him that that [TS]

00:35:50   that's not acceptable and my sister goes [TS]

00:35:53   the problem you know and she then she [TS]

00:35:56   starts to talk about heard a little bit [TS]

00:35:58   more on my mom says well why don't you [TS]

00:35:59   just you know like it if you just [TS]

00:36:02   enrolled at the community center how [TS]

00:36:04   many problems with that and uh it's just [TS]

00:36:07   my mom's nature to do that because you [TS]

00:36:12   know it's very hard to because that [TS]

00:36:15   because the expression might my sister [TS]

00:36:18   the the way that my sister expresses her [TS]

00:36:20   frustration about her day is very [TS]

00:36:23   discomforting right or discomforting [TS]

00:36:27   yeah where you know where she's [TS]

00:36:30   expressing frustration by means of [TS]

00:36:33   saying like it's just it'sit's in just [TS]

00:36:35   that might be another my boss just [TS]

00:36:37   doesn't see that it's not you know like [TS]

00:36:39   I should be able to have a five-minute [TS]

00:36:41   smoking break and you know my sister's [TS]

00:36:43   mad and she's and she's venting and my [TS]

00:36:46   mom says well you know I mean did you [TS]

00:36:49   think to take your five-minute smoking [TS]

00:36:51   break you know when you go to the [TS]

00:36:52   bathroom where my mom's trying to miss [TS]

00:36:54   it and now at that point she's more like [TS]

00:36:55   an editor or or a coach where she's [TS]

00:36:58   trying to like help improve performance [TS]

00:36:59   yeah a coach and and but part of that is [TS]

00:37:02   that that like but I think rationally [TS]

00:37:05   i've been i've been watching this [TS]

00:37:07   dynamic for 40 years but you know my mom [TS]

00:37:10   feels like my sister's agitation is [TS]

00:37:15   something that she wants to help resolve [TS]

00:37:18   sure that that's the biggest part in [TS]

00:37:21   some ways right and that that resolution [TS]

00:37:23   that part of that resolution is that my [TS]

00:37:26   sister isn't seeing or it you know that [TS]

00:37:29   that she could change her behavior and [TS]

00:37:32   resolve this problem or that she could [TS]

00:37:34   take a different tact and what and my [TS]

00:37:36   sister is once just to vent her emotions [TS]

00:37:41   and then the the feeling will pass [TS]

00:37:44   and then she'll go back to doing the [TS]

00:37:48   behavior that got her in trouble with [TS]

00:37:50   her boss you know and and and and and [TS]

00:37:53   partly my perception of it is that is it [TS]

00:37:56   is back to introvert extrovert polarity [TS]

00:38:02   where you know Susan wants to vent her [TS]

00:38:07   emotions she does not want to solve her [TS]

00:38:10   problems and my mom wants to solve [TS]

00:38:12   problems so that emotions do not ever [TS]

00:38:15   enter into it it's a completely [TS]

00:38:18   different paradigm the different [TS]

00:38:20   paradigm and yeah and-and-and watching [TS]

00:38:22   it over the years be characterized in [TS]

00:38:24   the press as a as a Mars Venus issue but [TS]

00:38:27   then watching it play out between the [TS]

00:38:29   two you know the two primary women in my [TS]

00:38:31   family I've had been forced to see it as [TS]

00:38:33   a as part of the either introvert [TS]

00:38:36   extrovert a paradigm or the emotional [TS]

00:38:41   rational you know [TS]

00:38:42   yeah right and and honestly like [TS]

00:38:45   sometimes I laugh and laugh and laugh [TS]

00:38:47   because I hear my sister start to go on [TS]

00:38:50   something and I realized that it isn't a [TS]

00:38:52   you know she just is she just needs to [TS]

00:38:57   offload her feelings about something and [TS]

00:39:01   I look over my mom like please stand [TS]

00:39:03   this just please stay out of it but [TS]

00:39:05   there are other times when listening to [TS]

00:39:07   my sister vent like I also feel like you [TS]

00:39:12   yell about this every afternoon it's the [TS]

00:39:13   same problem every time why don't you [TS]

00:39:15   just stop taking your smoke break right [TS]

00:39:17   under your bosses window is that so [TS]

00:39:19   crazy and and it's a big because [TS]

00:39:24   ultimately like I don't want to hear the [TS]

00:39:26   same emotional vent everyday like it is [TS]

00:39:29   in emotional venting of that kind is [TS]

00:39:32   actually stressful for her to even just [TS]

00:39:36   to be a passive witness just to be a [TS]

00:39:38   listener and that's the that's the [TS]

00:39:40   relationship part of it where you [TS]

00:39:42   realize and then the thing that [TS]

00:39:44   emotional Venters maybe don't always see [TS]

00:39:46   is that listening to them is requires [TS]

00:39:51   energy also and listen even if the event [TS]

00:39:55   they're not in the room I mean just kind [TS]

00:39:56   of preparing for going like wow I [TS]

00:39:58   today went ok yeah right i mean and at [TS]

00:40:02   and this is the this is the classic [TS]

00:40:03   problem that introverts have with [TS]

00:40:05   experts which is that introverts are [TS]

00:40:06   very very aware of what extrovert Sneed [TS]

00:40:11   extrovert are typically not even [TS]

00:40:16   conscious that there is such a thing as [TS]

00:40:18   an introvert let alone that an introvert [TS]

00:40:21   has different needs [TS]

00:40:22   who and so you know my sister is [TS]

00:40:25   conscious of the fact that that week you [TS]

00:40:29   know that we somehow are bad listeners [TS]

00:40:31   but not aware of how much it takes out [TS]

00:40:37   of us to listen to a litany of complaint [TS]

00:40:42   where it seems like the solution is easy [TS]

00:40:44   and this you know this is a this is a [TS]

00:40:46   it's and when I say us it's only that my [TS]

00:40:49   mom and I have a similar nature i got i [TS]

00:40:52   got out of that game a long time ago in [TS]

00:40:54   my own family and that's where [TS]

00:40:56   pretending to read has been a fantastic [TS]

00:41:00   strategy in Milan my whole adult life [TS]

00:41:02   pretending pretending to read struggling [TS]

00:41:05   to actually read while people are [TS]

00:41:06   fighting in the other room but so that [TS]

00:41:09   you know that a that communication style [TS]

00:41:13   like right now we're in an era where [TS]

00:41:16   listening and talking are very there you [TS]

00:41:19   know vario courant little different [TS]

00:41:22   different ways of listening for being [TS]

00:41:24   you know being sort of challenge to [TS]

00:41:26   listen better but the but the awareness [TS]

00:41:29   that listening is also a very active [TS]

00:41:32   activity and if you are listening [TS]

00:41:37   actively it is it it is a strain it [TS]

00:41:40   takes you know not not a not a not [TS]

00:41:42   necessarily a painful strain but it is [TS]

00:41:44   an exercise it does take vitamins it it [TS]

00:41:48   isn't it is if it isn't passive than [TS]

00:41:50   that means it's if there's not an effort [TS]

00:41:52   the person's probably not really [TS]

00:41:53   listening right probably barely even [TS]

00:41:54   hearing and that effort is also you know [TS]

00:41:57   that effort is also real and for some [TS]

00:41:59   for a lot of introverts like that that [TS]

00:42:01   effort is that makes them need to go sit [TS]

00:42:05   in a dark room and with a wet towel over [TS]

00:42:07   their head [TS]

00:42:07   there's also an element of I guess I [TS]

00:42:12   always use this word wrong now sensitive [TS]

00:42:13   about it but there's also an element of [TS]

00:42:15   having to inertia inertia or momentum [TS]

00:42:18   velocity torque there's an element of [TS]

00:42:21   empathy and I think that I don't know [TS]

00:42:25   not sure that's exactly the right word [TS]

00:42:26   but i think one way to think about [TS]

00:42:28   empathy is that it's easy to be [TS]

00:42:31   empathetic it's easy to feel the [TS]

00:42:33   feelings or understand the feelings of [TS]

00:42:35   somebody who has the same feelings as [TS]

00:42:36   you do it's very you know what i mean [TS]

00:42:37   when somebody is it has been you know if [TS]

00:42:40   if you have a god forbid you've got a [TS]

00:42:44   sibling that died and talk to somebody [TS]

00:42:45   who recently had a sibling that died [TS]

00:42:47   you might be really a good person to [TS]

00:42:49   talk to because you you probably [TS]

00:42:51   somebody who can understand what they're [TS]

00:42:52   going through you know it is sure that [TS]

00:42:54   get even more specific but no matter [TS]

00:42:56   what it is it's not it's not as [TS]

00:42:58   difficult to have empathy for somebody [TS]

00:43:00   that you think a has the same feelings [TS]

00:43:02   as you and importantly be deserves to [TS]

00:43:04   have those feelings and right i think [TS]

00:43:06   where it gets challenging them where you [TS]

00:43:08   get the real actual idea of empathy is [TS]

00:43:10   when you start trying to understand not [TS]

00:43:14   just how somebody feels but why they are [TS]

00:43:16   how they appear to you whether they [TS]

00:43:18   deserve that feeling or not that's true [TS]

00:43:20   empathy trip with the and I must be good [TS]

00:43:23   at this but is what i'm working toward [TS]

00:43:25   is to get better at going gosh it sure [TS]

00:43:27   is easy to chunk everybody into one of [TS]

00:43:30   these 11 boxes that I've got and that [TS]

00:43:32   sure makes life a lot easier i can then [TS]

00:43:33   focus on like one or two of these boxes [TS]

00:43:35   most the time and you know the rest is [TS]

00:43:37   garbage people that the difficult part [TS]

00:43:39   is that to become truly empathetic [TS]

00:43:40   person and I'm going somewhere with this [TS]

00:43:42   is really empathetic person you have to [TS]

00:43:44   get good at understanding what's not [TS]

00:43:46   just on the surface whether that you [TS]

00:43:47   think that very good and deserving [TS]

00:43:48   person to have those feelings whether [TS]

00:43:50   you think their grievances are [TS]

00:43:52   appropriate [TS]

00:43:55   whether you think their ideas about what [TS]

00:43:56   should change our realistic that you [TS]

00:43:59   know it's very it's very easy to get [TS]

00:44:02   shortcuts about those things to where [TS]

00:44:03   you can just write all those people off [TS]

00:44:05   but talked before about teachers need to [TS]

00:44:07   be a good teacher and to be maybe to be [TS]

00:44:10   a good arm [TS]

00:44:11   it's a politician because that implies [TS]

00:44:13   muscle tissue there to election year [TS]

00:44:14   going to be a good public servant you [TS]

00:44:17   have to have an element of empathy you [TS]

00:44:19   have to be realistic about knowing what [TS]

00:44:20   can be accomplished [TS]

00:44:21   but it seems to me you have to become [TS]

00:44:22   very empathetic about listening and [TS]

00:44:25   hearing from people where you may not [TS]

00:44:27   even understand where they're coming [TS]

00:44:28   from you start trying to figure out [TS]

00:44:29   whether there are chemtrails person but [TS]

00:44:31   doesn't make sense like the end of the [TS]

00:44:32   area does that make sense but to me [TS]

00:44:34   that's the empathy part is empathy is [TS]

00:44:36   not just feeling for people who you like [TS]

00:44:38   and agree with empathy is learning to [TS]

00:44:40   try and understand or at least hear [TS]

00:44:43   people that you may be absolutely don't [TS]

00:44:45   agree with you at least hear that [TS]

00:44:47   mountain figure out like why they're how [TS]

00:44:48   they are and then live with the fact [TS]

00:44:49   that maybe you'll just never agree and [TS]

00:44:51   maybe that doesn't make them the worst [TS]

00:44:52   person in the world [TS]

00:44:53   they're just really just fucking [TS]

00:44:54   different well it's interesting because [TS]

00:44:57   in Star Trek new generation is that what [TS]

00:45:02   it's called is a newer next i've been [TS]

00:45:05   criticized for this criticized or have [TS]

00:45:07   you just been a mention have you just [TS]

00:45:09   been listened to on people have heard [TS]

00:45:12   you say star trek new generation I'm not [TS]

00:45:14   putting this happens and you're the [TS]

00:45:17   house is being handed ok so in the [TS]

00:45:19   second generation of us on track in the [TS]

00:45:21   in the latest generation not the latest [TS]

00:45:23   i'm sorry in the original next new [TS]

00:45:26   generation so what we're talking about [TS]

00:45:27   is episode to episode negative 2 of the [TS]

00:45:33   new generation of Star Trek there this [TS]

00:45:36   is the one professor x in the guy from [TS]

00:45:37   the cruise Professor X Professor X [TS]

00:45:41   Professor X that his name that I say [TS]

00:45:44   that wrong [TS]

00:45:45   jean-luc Picard jean-luc general ordered [TS]

00:45:49   jean-luc Picard you know there is an [TS]

00:45:53   empath character on the ship and that [TS]

00:45:57   was you know at the time when that show [TS]

00:46:00   came out it was like oh wow wouldn't [TS]

00:46:03   isn't that a kind of it that's a cool [TS]

00:46:05   bit of writing to imagine the future him [TS]

00:46:11   to imagine a science future which were [TS]

00:46:13   all geeking on having not just a doctor [TS]

00:46:17   and a science officer and a navigator [TS]

00:46:20   and a chemist but also a feelings [TS]

00:46:24   professional right when that when Star [TS]

00:46:28   Trek new generation first came out it [TS]

00:46:29   was the first time that we had ever seen [TS]

00:46:31   a feelings professional it on a science [TS]

00:46:35   show and that was that was kind of a [TS]

00:46:40   little bit of a like a brain tickle is [TS]

00:46:42   that Troy commander Troi around and so [TS]

00:46:49   but but but very clearly at that point [TS]

00:46:53   in time it was and in the writing of [TS]

00:46:56   that show there were you know there were [TS]

00:47:00   scripts their storylines where someone [TS]

00:47:02   needed to go talk to Troy go talk to [TS]

00:47:06   Commander Troi she was the she was the [TS]

00:47:08   one who had the the expertise and [TS]

00:47:11   sometimes you know there would be an [TS]

00:47:12   alien that they an alien intelligence [TS]

00:47:15   that they were encountering and at that [TS]

00:47:18   point they hadn't had any Troy scripts [TS]

00:47:20   for a while and so they would they'd [TS]

00:47:22   figure out a way that Troy needed they [TS]

00:47:25   needed her wisdom and insight to [TS]

00:47:27   interact with this alien life form but [TS]

00:47:29   for the most part it was still that they [TS]

00:47:32   were using science to explore the [TS]

00:47:34   universe and more often than not the way [TS]

00:47:37   to encounter an alien life-form was to [TS]

00:47:40   put the shields up and power up the [TS]

00:47:44   photon torpedoes right now we're going [TS]

00:47:48   through a cultural phase where empathy [TS]

00:47:51   for someone like you is being encouraged [TS]

00:47:55   by you know the the multiplicity of [TS]

00:47:59   voices in the in the world to really [TS]

00:48:02   really focus on empathy but there are [TS]

00:48:07   empaths in our world and then there are [TS]

00:48:11   people that will never you know that who [TS]

00:48:14   are constitutionally really incapable of [TS]

00:48:16   empathy and empathy is just another one [TS]

00:48:20   of our talents like sports ball like [TS]

00:48:24   being able to run or jump and some [TS]

00:48:26   people are really really good at it and [TS]

00:48:28   some people need to really train to [TS]

00:48:32   activate it in themselves and there are [TS]

00:48:34   there are cultural dampers that [TS]

00:48:37   we put on it but then there are there's [TS]

00:48:39   a whole swath of the world [TS]

00:48:42   twenty-five percent of the people [TS]

00:48:43   probably just have no empathy and or or [TS]

00:48:49   or little empathy and so I don't think [TS]

00:48:54   that empathy is a thing that everybody [TS]

00:48:55   can have and I think it's something that [TS]

00:48:57   it's great that where we talked about in [TS]

00:48:58   are aware of but like there are also [TS]

00:49:01   many well I've been on the Joe Cruz five [TS]

00:49:04   times I know what it I know what it's [TS]

00:49:06   like to be in a world where empathy is [TS]

00:49:09   the is the language currency but there [TS]

00:49:12   are a lot of people on the spectrum for [TS]

00:49:15   whom empathy is a is a distance idea and [TS]

00:49:20   I don't you know I don't know where [TS]

00:49:21   we're going to be in 20 years on this [TS]

00:49:23   but and I'm and I'm glad we're talking [TS]

00:49:26   about it but there's also like my mom [TS]

00:49:28   has as much empathy is she can have and [TS]

00:49:30   it isn't and it isn't enough for my [TS]

00:49:32   sister and never will be right and over [TS]

00:49:37   the years I have said to my sister like [TS]

00:49:39   you're the one that has this deep [TS]

00:49:41   capacity for empathy can you not show [TS]

00:49:44   any for your mother who has no real [TS]

00:49:47   capacity for it and that's where I found [TS]

00:49:51   the the greater struggle like my mom can [TS]

00:49:54   say i don't know i don't know how to [TS]

00:49:56   empathize with this it just seems like [TS]

00:49:59   complaining to me but I know that about [TS]

00:50:02   myself and I and I try to not talk i try [TS]

00:50:09   to you know she's gone as far as to try [TS]

00:50:13   to bake her way out of it [TS]

00:50:16   what if I made cookies you know like [TS]

00:50:18   literally tried to try anything [TS]

00:50:21   Wow but the the empathetic one the one [TS]

00:50:24   with all the feelings my sister doesn't [TS]

00:50:26   has never been able to find the [TS]

00:50:28   reservoir of feeling on behalf of the [TS]

00:50:32   person with no empathy that's the kind [TS]

00:50:35   of ironic part yeah and it and it and so [TS]

00:50:37   often it is in this conversation where [TS]

00:50:40   it's like yeah well you know this person [TS]

00:50:42   has trouble sharing your feelings can [TS]

00:50:44   you can you feel that [TS]

00:50:46   do you have feelings can you share those [TS]

00:50:48   feelings so I don't know you know like [TS]

00:50:51   uh I think that I'm definitely not a [TS]

00:50:56   science officer I'm much more really of [TS]

00:50:59   an impact but not so much of a of an [TS]

00:51:03   empath that I'm not ready to power up [TS]

00:51:05   some photon torpedoes [TS]

00:51:06   no I understand it's part of the job [TS]

00:51:07   right you know what I mean like a lot of [TS]

00:51:09   mission la a large steak explore new [TS]

00:51:12   worlds yes seek out new civilizations [TS]

00:51:14   yes who hit them with photon torpedoes [TS]

00:51:18   Roddenberry's dream so I struggle [TS]

00:51:24   yeah well as long as you talk about our [TS]

00:51:26   feelings the you know this is that this [TS]

00:51:29   other thing that I again I i always feel [TS]

00:51:31   like I'm just saying something it's so [TS]

00:51:33   obvious but it's something I want I i [TS]

00:51:35   find very almost impossible to deal with [TS]

00:51:38   in in my own life and so I find a triple [TS]

00:51:41   impossible to try to be something that I [TS]

00:51:42   lightly gently try to impart on my kid [TS]

00:51:45   which is this really strange strange [TS]

00:51:49   message about how much you can actually [TS]

00:51:52   change about stuff at a given time in [TS]

00:51:55   the world and how much you can change [TS]

00:51:56   about other people because that you just [TS]

00:51:59   said in part on my kid instead of in [TS]

00:52:02   part to my kid and that as a as a dad [TS]

00:52:04   that it's absolutely what it feels [TS]

00:52:05   comprised of listen I'm going to impart [TS]

00:52:07   this on you and high it myself but [TS]

00:52:12   here's what here's what it comes down to [TS]

00:52:14   I mean here's an example we get up to [TS]

00:52:16   the i don't know i'm always talk about [TS]

00:52:17   crossing the street except it's [TS]

00:52:18   something we do a lot and so it's [TS]

00:52:19   something to think about a lot is [TS]

00:52:20   something where I want her to be [TS]

00:52:21   actively engaged in the process of [TS]

00:52:23   crossing the street and talked about [TS]

00:52:25   this a lot and in other dances across [TS]

00:52:27   the street you don't go across the [TS]

00:52:28   street without looking you don't go [TS]

00:52:29   across the street like you like you're [TS]

00:52:30   in war like you you you know it but it's [TS]

00:52:33   such a it's such a delicate operation of [TS]

00:52:36   trying to explain to a little kid here's [TS]

00:52:37   what I don't want to there's millions i [TS]

00:52:39   don't want to I don't make them careless [TS]

00:52:40   on the one and the other end I don't [TS]

00:52:42   want to make her scared and so I try to [TS]

00:52:44   impart something in between which which [TS]

00:52:46   is that there's something very [TS]

00:52:47   complicated going on here [TS]

00:52:49   the basics are things like look left [TS]

00:52:50   right and left but then keep looking [TS]

00:52:51   keep making onto my contact keep going [TS]

00:52:54   across but then the thing that I want to [TS]

00:52:57   say very gently is even if we do this [TS]

00:52:59   part [TS]

00:52:59   quickly things can still go wrong I and [TS]

00:53:02   we have no control over that and [TS]

00:53:04   understanding that has a strange and I'm [TS]

00:53:06   not about to explain this to a [TS]

00:53:07   seven-year-old cause I barely understand [TS]

00:53:08   it but there's a certain existential [TS]

00:53:09   freedom and realizing that things always [TS]

00:53:11   could go wrong even if you do your best [TS]

00:53:13   but that doesn't mean you don't still [TS]

00:53:15   try to do your best and so in in that [TS]

00:53:17   kind of an instance I guess I'm the [TS]

00:53:18   larger message I'm trying to impart on [TS]

00:53:21   her is is that I and the thing that I [TS]

00:53:24   need to learn all the time is that just [TS]

00:53:26   because they're let's say I try to be [TS]

00:53:28   empathetic and I fail I see other people [TS]

00:53:31   feeling of being apathetic it doesn't [TS]

00:53:32   mean we can't keep trying and like even [TS]

00:53:34   if the system is broken we still have to [TS]

00:53:36   do what we think is right and we still [TS]

00:53:38   have two and god willing in the right [TS]

00:53:39   atmosphere we should we continue to [TS]

00:53:41   learn and get better and we don't just [TS]

00:53:42   you know dig in around something that [TS]

00:53:45   may be an old dead or bad idea but you [TS]

00:53:48   know but part of sanity in life is [TS]

00:53:50   realizing that on you know let's get to [TS]

00:53:53   this part of thinking empathetically the [TS]

00:53:55   empathetic as well I mean justice you [TS]

00:53:56   put them in a million different ways but [TS]

00:53:58   I think about more than just your own [TS]

00:53:59   dick in a given day right and just [TS]

00:54:01   getting to a point where you can go look [TS]

00:54:02   I I want to really try to understand [TS]

00:54:04   where other people are coming from and [TS]

00:54:06   then except you know what i don't [TS]

00:54:08   understand what that person is coming [TS]

00:54:09   from their kind of a dick and then go [TS]

00:54:11   that's I just gotta move on it doesn't [TS]

00:54:13   mean I'm going to treat them badly but [TS]

00:54:14   it means that doesn't mean that the life [TS]

00:54:16   ends because i can't settle this one [TS]

00:54:18   relationship that just means that that's [TS]

00:54:19   just how life is because it all is a [TS]

00:54:22   question of how well my filter can make [TS]

00:54:24   me feel like I understand how the [TS]

00:54:25   fucking world works when I have never [TS]

00:54:27   understand how the world works well you [TS]

00:54:30   have a pretty good sense of element [TS]

00:54:32   works [TS]

00:54:33   yeah spins in one direction only [TS]

00:54:36   mmm this is trying to move a little bit [TS]

00:54:38   toward your torture project because i'm [TS]

00:54:41   curious how these kinds of the reason [TS]

00:54:42   I'm bringing these up is first of all to [TS]

00:54:44   show you that I struggled to be a person [TS]

00:54:46   but also that like how does this affect [TS]

00:54:47   you I mean how is your listening to her [TS]

00:54:49   going it's going really well and you [TS]

00:54:53   know the that that the danger the the [TS]

00:54:57   danger of of thinking of progress [TS]

00:55:02   is that if you're a historian or at all [TS]

00:55:05   interested in looking back at all in [TS]

00:55:08   there is a feeling of progress over time [TS]

00:55:11   right that we're just were not [TS]

00:55:13   confronting the same problems that we [TS]

00:55:16   were in 1651 not like the Middle Ages [TS]

00:55:20   where we actually on the grand scale of [TS]

00:55:22   things did move backward for a while [TS]

00:55:24   right well and in some ways like [TS]

00:55:27   learning moved backward but well yet [TS]

00:55:31   technology sure like moved where we lost [TS]

00:55:36   a lot of ground but we were also going [TS]

00:55:39   through a phase a where we were [TS]

00:55:43   developing through monotheism a whole [TS]

00:55:47   complex set of new ideas about what [TS]

00:55:52   would constitute a person and what [TS]

00:55:55   constituted are ethical basis right that [TS]

00:55:58   the idea of the idea of justice that we [TS]

00:56:00   have today is a product of all that [TS]

00:56:04   religious churning that happened in the [TS]

00:56:08   Middle Ages which we think of as the [TS]

00:56:10   dark ages [TS]

00:56:11   so although we lost astronomy for a [TS]

00:56:14   while and maybe lost the Roman concept [TS]

00:56:17   of the aquaduct for a while and lost we [TS]

00:56:20   lost a lot of intellectual ground as we [TS]

00:56:23   moved from a world where from a [TS]

00:56:26   polytheistic animist world to one that [TS]

00:56:30   was rooted in this idea that there was [TS]

00:56:32   one God and you could have a you know [TS]

00:56:35   you could have a personal relationship [TS]

00:56:37   with them and not just that you're out [TS]

00:56:39   in the woods burning sheep bones to [TS]

00:56:42   appeal to who the god of of of scabies [TS]

00:56:47   to relieve your suffering but that you [TS]

00:56:50   you know that your whole life and all of [TS]

00:56:52   life is like rooted in this central [TS]

00:56:54   authority that's where the I you know [TS]

00:56:58   that's where we're all of our [TS]

00:57:00   contemporary ideas of of the rights of [TS]

00:57:05   man come from and so it wasn't just a it [TS]

00:57:09   wasn't that a lot was lost we were just [TS]

00:57:12   building a new thing for a while [TS]

00:57:13   and-and-and so here we are and we are [TS]

00:57:17   we've made tremendous progress [TS]

00:57:20   there's lots and lots of progress yet to [TS]

00:57:22   make its all thought technology and [TS]

00:57:28   we're in a were in a a mode right now [TS]

00:57:31   that's very active the generation that [TS]

00:57:33   followed hours and the generation that [TS]

00:57:35   followed them is just bigger than we are [TS]

00:57:37   and louder than we are and maybe the [TS]

00:57:40   biggest loudest generation ever and [TS]

00:57:43   they're gonna set the tone a lot more [TS]

00:57:45   than we did or are capable of and [TS]

00:57:50   there's you know they're the the spigot [TS]

00:57:53   is wider so not everybody is coming from [TS]

00:57:56   the same place and that's a very that's [TS]

00:57:59   a that that's the maybe one of the [TS]

00:58:01   hardest things to grapple with because [TS]

00:58:03   there is as you try to resolve [TS]

00:58:05   disagreement and you realize that that [TS]

00:58:09   no one even accepts even one basic [TS]

00:58:13   premise that the person they're arguing [TS]

00:58:15   with accepts and that's kind of [TS]

00:58:17   unprecedented I mean there is at even 50 [TS]

00:58:21   years ago the basic premises were all [TS]

00:58:25   commonly held for the most part or if [TS]

00:58:28   you if you were an outsider to those who [TS]

00:58:30   didn't hold those you at least knew what [TS]

00:58:31   they were and you and you looked at [TS]

00:58:35   yourself in in opposition to those those [TS]

00:58:38   common ideas but there are a lot of [TS]

00:58:40   people now who just don't even know the [TS]

00:58:45   first thing about what the other person [TS]

00:58:47   where the other person is coming from [TS]

00:58:49   not even the first thing and they're not [TS]

00:58:51   especially interested huh [TS]

00:58:54   you know I when you think about I don't [TS]

00:58:56   know if you there was a really cool [TS]

00:58:58   article in the new york times about [TS]

00:59:00   Obama's visit to this little South [TS]

00:59:03   Dakota town to give the commencement [TS]

00:59:05   speech at their little technical college [TS]

00:59:09   and I think a big part of the reason he [TS]

00:59:12   went there was that he had he'd been to [TS]

00:59:14   49 of the 50 states and kind of letter [TS]

00:59:16   the letter from that little girl [TS]

00:59:18   yeah right exactly yeah and so he came [TS]

00:59:21   to South Dakota to give the commencement [TS]

00:59:23   speech at this little college but this [TS]

00:59:24   article was written [TS]

00:59:26   this reporter just went to the town and [TS]

00:59:28   talk to a bunch of locals before Obama [TS]

00:59:31   arrived and South Dakota was [TS]

00:59:36   overwhelmingly a republican state no one [TS]

00:59:39   in this little town voted for obama and [TS]

00:59:42   in the advance of him arriving the [TS]

00:59:45   reporter talk to all these people are [TS]

00:59:46   like he wants to make it a Muslim [TS]

00:59:48   country and and he doesn't even know [TS]

00:59:50   it's a just all that usual stuff and [TS]

00:59:54   then Obama came and hundreds of people [TS]

00:59:57   in the town turned out went down to the [TS]

00:59:59   airport [TS]

00:59:59   airport [TS]

01:00:00   or to watch the plane land as he drove [TS]

01:00:02   through the town the reporter was you [TS]

01:00:05   know followed this group of people that [TS]

01:00:07   had been talking to already here she I [TS]

01:00:09   don't know actually what I didn't look [TS]

01:00:13   at the name of the reporter but followed [TS]

01:00:15   the followed their responses and they [TS]

01:00:18   were all thrilled that Obama wave to [TS]

01:00:21   them that they saw the President and [TS]

01:00:25   then they watched his speech on [TS]

01:00:26   television and they were moved to tears [TS]

01:00:28   that he was talking about their town and [TS]

01:00:31   you know and then he was only he was [TS]

01:00:35   only on the ground for a couple of hours [TS]

01:00:36   drove his car back to the airport again [TS]

01:00:39   you know people crowding the streets to [TS]

01:00:41   see him off he flies and at least the [TS]

01:00:44   you know through the narrow lens of this [TS]

01:00:47   reporters experienced a lot of those [TS]

01:00:50   people were their opinion about obama [TS]

01:00:53   was transformed by just that tiny little [TS]

01:00:57   bit of physical contact where they went [TS]

01:01:00   from thinking he was the Antichrist to [TS]

01:01:05   admiring him and thinking that he had [TS]

01:01:07   given a good speech and like were [TS]

01:01:10   surprised and astonished and and touched [TS]

01:01:14   and moved by the whole experience and of [TS]

01:01:17   course that's true right i mean i was [TS]

01:01:19   vociferously against Reagan but if I had [TS]

01:01:25   ever seen Reagan let alone seat been [TS]

01:01:29   close to Reagan i'm sure i would have [TS]

01:01:30   swooned over and that that sense of of [TS]

01:01:39   how much we share and how little actual [TS]

01:01:42   differences we have you only get that [TS]

01:01:46   experience by being around other people [TS]

01:01:49   by you know by traveling thing we talked [TS]

01:01:51   about this all the time these [TS]

01:01:52   disagreements on the Internet where [TS]

01:01:53   people are just screaming at each other [TS]

01:01:55   and if they were in the same room they [TS]

01:01:56   would be you know fast friends are like [TS]

01:01:58   and anyone who has ever traveled through [TS]

01:02:02   Alabama knows that they're the [TS]

01:02:04   friendliest people in the world and and [TS]

01:02:06   terrible racists [TS]

01:02:09   but-but-but wonderful people in so many [TS]

01:02:12   other way [TS]

01:02:13   now as a you know not apology but just [TS]

01:02:17   as normal human experience and that's [TS]

01:02:20   what we don't share anymore and so being [TS]

01:02:26   out on the campaign trail and talking to [TS]

01:02:28   everybody like I am the focus of a lot [TS]

01:02:32   of energy directed at me I'm the hub of [TS]

01:02:36   that wheel and I'm meeting people from a [TS]

01:02:38   lot of different spheres and all I [TS]

01:02:41   wishes that they could all meet each [TS]

01:02:42   other for you know like uh huh i'm i'm [TS]

01:02:46   seeing this incredible diversity of of [TS]

01:02:49   thinking I'm meeting a lot of 25 [TS]

01:02:51   year-olds like the like the girl in the [TS]

01:02:54   louie ck store who at 25 years old [TS]

01:02:59   already has all the wisdom in it and [TS]

01:03:01   that she thinks she's ever gonna need [TS]

01:03:03   and what you know and I whatever that [TS]

01:03:06   episode is trying to convey what we [TS]

01:03:08   don't know is six months later is her [TS]

01:03:10   store closed because she's rude to [TS]

01:03:12   customers [TS]

01:03:13   I mean that's the that's the that's the [TS]

01:03:16   thing that that kind of like well I'm [TS]

01:03:18   doing fine and you know maybe you need [TS]

01:03:20   to get with the times because look it's [TS]

01:03:22   just like well I mean or like so many 25 [TS]

01:03:27   years before you you think you can start [TS]

01:03:29   a store and be rude to people and you [TS]

01:03:31   don't need to be nice to old white men [TS]

01:03:34   because they're irrelevant to you and [TS]

01:03:36   then your store closes because you're [TS]

01:03:37   rude and a bad a customer service person [TS]

01:03:40   and then you learn like so many people [TS]

01:03:43   have before you that customer service is [TS]

01:03:46   part of the equation and so I'm eating a [TS]

01:03:49   lot of very active 25 year-olds [TS]

01:03:51   politically active 25 year-olds who [TS]

01:03:53   think they already know everything there [TS]

01:03:56   is to know about a city about government [TS]

01:03:58   that's a great great age for that it's [TS]

01:04:00   incredible and when I was that started [TS]

01:04:02   that that's really the perfect age to [TS]

01:04:03   feel like you know everything [TS]

01:04:04   yeah right you so easily your you you [TS]

01:04:07   are very smart at that age and maybe [TS]

01:04:10   smarter than 40 rolls because you still [TS]

01:04:12   have all your brain cells but what you [TS]

01:04:14   you know but what you don't know is all [TS]

01:04:17   the stuff you don't know and so I'm [TS]

01:04:21   talking to people all the time who are [TS]

01:04:22   just like well the solution is simple [TS]

01:04:23   but a bit of it [TS]

01:04:25   and I and you go well that is a simple [TS]

01:04:29   solution until you start to become aware [TS]

01:04:32   that every solution causes 42 other [TS]

01:04:36   problems you didn't anticipate and they [TS]

01:04:39   go well no it's like yes I mean I i have [TS]

01:04:45   i have conversations all the time with [TS]

01:04:47   with people who seem with young people [TS]

01:04:52   I'm talking about there who do not [TS]

01:04:54   understand that they did not invent the [TS]

01:04:58   civil rights movement and I'm like you [TS]

01:05:01   know people have been doing this work [TS]

01:05:02   for a long time and the struggles have [TS]

01:05:06   been different the challenges have been [TS]

01:05:07   different but you are here able to speak [TS]

01:05:11   this way because people have been doing [TS]

01:05:13   this work for a long time and so the [TS]

01:05:18   indignation you feel that we're not [TS]

01:05:21   moving fast enough i would just like to [TS]

01:05:23   direct your attention back just a few [TS]

01:05:25   years to where we were then and imagine [TS]

01:05:28   how indignant you would feel like this [TS]

01:05:32   is this is you know like Anna and i'm [TS]

01:05:35   not saying that by way of saying like [TS]

01:05:37   respect your elders I'm just saying get [TS]

01:05:39   a little context these ideas just [TS]

01:05:42   because just because Twitter is new and [TS]

01:05:46   snapchat is new does not mean that the [TS]

01:05:49   ideas that are being expressed there are [TS]

01:05:50   equally new and unprecedented and it's a [TS]

01:05:54   it's a real challenge and I'd so I the [TS]

01:05:57   the excitement of the campaign is that [TS]

01:06:01   I'm talking to people from what we had [TS]

01:06:02   we had a meeting yesterday of my [TS]

01:06:04   volunteer squad it was just people that [TS]

01:06:08   had offered to volunteer for the [TS]

01:06:09   campaign and 25 people showed up on [TS]

01:06:12   mother's day and they were all ages from [TS]

01:06:17   2265 and there and it was like a real [TS]

01:06:26   cross-section of people in seattle [TS]

01:06:29   people who had only lived here for six [TS]

01:06:30   months people who live their entire [TS]

01:06:31   lives [TS]

01:06:33   people with the Masters in Social Work [TS]

01:06:36   people that worked political campaigns [TS]

01:06:38   people that were just artists and I [TS]

01:06:40   don't mean just artists to say that [TS]

01:06:43   being an artist is lesser but just that [TS]

01:06:45   that's you know that they are coming [TS]

01:06:47   from the arts place and engaging in this [TS]

01:06:50   campaign out of a like pretty confused [TS]

01:06:53   about what is even happening here a [TS]

01:06:56   politically and it was incredibly [TS]

01:06:59   inspiring just have all these people in [TS]

01:07:01   the room and listen to all there in a [TS]

01:07:03   couple of teachers a couple of of the [TS]

01:07:05   beauty of people from activists [TS]

01:07:10   background and what I really wanted to [TS]

01:07:12   do was just just say let's all sit here [TS]

01:07:15   for hours and just talk about what you [TS]

01:07:18   know like just start [TS]

01:07:19   what's the single most important problem [TS]

01:07:21   facing the city and the a we could it [TS]

01:07:24   would have been a four hour long round [TS]

01:07:25   table we didn't have that time but [TS]

01:07:28   that's what i'm getting every day is [TS]

01:07:32   this roundtable where it's all being too [TS]

01:07:37   you know sort of directed at me either [TS]

01:07:38   people trying to train me over people [TS]

01:07:41   trying to school me people trying to [TS]

01:07:45   connect with me people hoping that i [TS]

01:07:49   will recognize their issue and then [TS]

01:07:52   broadcast it for them you know and it's [TS]

01:07:55   all really compelling and like it's [TS]

01:07:58   moving it's moving my heart and that's [TS]

01:08:02   that I think the best thing about it you [TS]

01:08:04   know we get to be 45 and you're like oh [TS]

01:08:06   maybe I'm you know maybe my heart can't [TS]

01:08:08   move anymore right but i sat in a I i [TS]

01:08:12   sat in a meeting where 20 people got up [TS]

01:08:15   and spoke about the fact that the metro [TS]

01:08:18   bus system had raised the bus fare 25 [TS]

01:08:24   cents fifty cents and at first it felt [TS]

01:08:29   like how the I mean I i know that [TS]

01:08:34   there's always gonna be somebody that's [TS]

01:08:35   mad about anything but in actually [TS]

01:08:39   listening to 20 different people testify [TS]

01:08:42   that they were trying to survive on [TS]

01:08:46   750 dollars a month and that they needed [TS]

01:08:51   to take the bus that you know they [TS]

01:08:55   needed to take five buses every day and [TS]

01:08:58   that that what seemed like a small fare [TS]

01:09:01   increase actually was was prohibiting [TS]

01:09:07   them from getting certain foods at the [TS]

01:09:10   grocery store and that they had that [TS]

01:09:14   they were supporting their children and [TS]

01:09:16   their elderly incapacitated parent and [TS]

01:09:20   they were the only burger and you you're [TS]

01:09:24   one of those are like whoa that person [TS]

01:09:26   has like a really bad scene but when you [TS]

01:09:31   hear 20 people tell a story like that [TS]

01:09:34   and you realize that these are the 20 of [TS]

01:09:36   these people who took another two buses [TS]

01:09:40   to come to this meeting to talk about it [TS]

01:09:43   right right so you have to think that [TS]

01:09:45   they are there a small percentage of a [TS]

01:09:48   very small percentage of the number of [TS]

01:09:50   people who are surviving at this you [TS]

01:09:52   know at a level where 50 cent bus fare [TS]

01:09:56   change or 25-cent bus fare change is a [TS]

01:10:00   significant change in their in their [TS]

01:10:01   welfare and you just go holy shit like [TS]

01:10:05   this isn't like politics is important [TS]

01:10:09   work and income inequality is [TS]

01:10:12   desperately real somewhere in this town [TS]

01:10:15   right now there are people who are who [TS]

01:10:18   are you know throwing their xbox in the [TS]

01:10:21   garbage because somebody spilled some [TS]

01:10:24   pop on it or somebody spilled a drop on [TS]

01:10:26   and they don't like it being sticky and [TS]

01:10:29   you know and over here i'm sitting in a [TS]

01:10:31   basement listening to these stories and [TS]

01:10:33   it's just like by while wall you know [TS]

01:10:38   but at the same time like I've been [TS]

01:10:44   thinking about Jeff Bezos a lot i know [TS]

01:10:47   you think about Jeff Bezos I've been [TS]

01:10:49   thinking about him a lot because he's a [TS]

01:10:51   piece of a big figure here in Seattle [TS]

01:10:53   and he's an important key to [TS]

01:10:58   what that what's going to happen in the [TS]

01:10:59   city and he kind of keeps himself at a [TS]

01:11:03   distance but he has a lot of employees a [TS]

01:11:07   lot of them are like good people the [TS]

01:11:10   culture of amazon is very circle the [TS]

01:11:13   wagons but i don't know how much you're [TS]

01:11:16   aware of Jeff bezos's Blue Origin [TS]

01:11:20   project I don't know that is jeff is one [TS]

01:11:24   of a like SpaceX and like Elon Musk Jeff [TS]

01:11:29   is also a space visionary and he is [TS]

01:11:32   building a manned space program I had no [TS]

01:11:36   idea a lot of people don't know because [TS]

01:11:39   he keeps it kind of is not real [TS]

01:11:42   publicity-hungry about it [TS]

01:11:44   he's not a showboater like Elon Musk but [TS]

01:11:49   he is you know using his own resources [TS]

01:11:51   to build a space capsule for a normals [TS]

01:11:58   for regulars to go into space and it is [TS]

01:12:02   pretty far along is his kids quiet space [TS]

01:12:07   program like far enough along that they [TS]

01:12:11   had a launch not very long ago of the of [TS]

01:12:14   like an actual rocket that they had [TS]

01:12:15   designed not a rocket that they bought [TS]

01:12:17   from Russia not a rocket but that not a [TS]

01:12:19   used rocket but a brand new rocket that [TS]

01:12:23   they have designed from the ground up [TS]

01:12:25   and constructed and launched I can i [TS]

01:12:28   feel kind of dumb that i didn't know [TS]

01:12:29   this [TS]

01:12:29   I don't you shouldn't feel dumb because [TS]

01:12:31   they're very quiet about it it's a [TS]

01:12:32   rocket that let me let me just put it a [TS]

01:12:34   let me like put it in a different [TS]

01:12:36   contract it's a rocket that one the one [TS]

01:12:39   the the bottom stage is done [TS]

01:12:42   launching the capsule it actually [TS]

01:12:44   parachutes back and lands with like [TS]

01:12:48   retrorocket firing like lands on the [TS]

01:12:51   ground who doesn't it doesn't fall into [TS]

01:12:53   the ocean it's like it returns to Earth [TS]

01:12:55   the rocket and the capsule has like it's [TS]

01:12:59   a beautiful it's beautiful thing six [TS]

01:13:01   people can ride on a you know in their [TS]

01:13:04   plan is in the very near future to start [TS]

01:13:07   allowing people to buy seats on this [TS]

01:13:09   rocket to go up and do a like [TS]

01:13:12   near-earth orbit weightless space [TS]

01:13:17   experience so here's this guy he owns [TS]

01:13:21   this company he's he is he's very [TS]

01:13:24   wealthy he lives in Seattle [TS]

01:13:26   he's hiring a lot of people and he is [TS]

01:13:31   also building a space program that's [TS]

01:13:35   also here in in the Seattle area and as [TS]

01:13:40   you know I'm a big supporter of space [TS]

01:13:43   exploration [TS]

01:13:44   I think that's super great and the old [TS]

01:13:49   canard that you that we shouldn't pour [TS]

01:13:53   money into NASA because all that money [TS]

01:13:55   could go to build low-income housing [TS]

01:13:57   I've always felt like was a was a was a [TS]

01:14:00   bad argument or like I understood i [TS]

01:14:02   understand it from a liberal point of [TS]

01:14:04   view that it seems like there's a [TS]

01:14:07   limited number of dollars and why would [TS]

01:14:09   you spend it going to space when people [TS]

01:14:11   were poor but space exploration is like [TS]

01:14:15   this at the soul of what I think we [TS]

01:14:17   should be doing and we should also find [TS]

01:14:20   the money to feed and house people and [TS]

01:14:24   what and where that money should come [TS]

01:14:25   from is not space exploration but all [TS]

01:14:27   the people that have gold bathtubs right [TS]

01:14:30   for some find a way somehow to tap into [TS]

01:14:33   the the money and the energy that is [TS]

01:14:35   going to build gold bathtubs for people [TS]

01:14:38   and channel that money over but now that [TS]

01:14:43   I'm spending a lot of time listening to [TS]

01:14:45   people that need an extra twenty-five [TS]

01:14:47   cents a date just to ride the bus like [TS]

01:14:51   the context of all this stuff and this [TS]

01:14:54   whole conversation is just like [TS]

01:14:56   personally changed for me and I still [TS]

01:14:59   want Jeff Bezos to explore space i just [TS]

01:15:03   also want to you know to rope everybody [TS]

01:15:08   in all the visionaries to to regather [TS]

01:15:13   them into the conversation around around [TS]

01:15:18   my town in particular right [TS]

01:15:20   and try to figure out like we have we [TS]

01:15:25   have this energy and this exploratory [TS]

01:15:26   energy is great but I also want to say [TS]

01:15:30   that it's it's an equal it's equally [TS]

01:15:35   exciting to explore the idea of no one [TS]

01:15:40   going hungry and it doesn't seem as [TS]

01:15:45   exciting it's not as glamorous you don't [TS]

01:15:47   get a space suit for it but it is also [TS]

01:15:51   like a part of this feeling of progress [TS]

01:15:55   her right [TS]

01:15:56   the part of the feeling of like we keep [TS]

01:15:58   moving [TS]

01:16:00   I'm doing better and none of these [TS]

01:16:02   things are [TS]

01:16:03   it's not resolved that there will always [TS]

01:16:06   be people starving [TS]

01:16:09   why I want to sound cynical but it [TS]

01:16:12   sounds like a guy i have no idea how [TS]

01:16:14   somebody like that think somebody that [TS]

01:16:16   kind of dough which course nobody ever [TS]

01:16:18   feel like they have as much money as [TS]

01:16:19   everybody thinks they do but in that [TS]

01:16:21   case I mean I'll be rounding error like [TS]

01:16:23   even if they given that look like a [TS]

01:16:25   hundred thousand dollars right looking [TS]

01:16:27   like like me you know maybe a day's [TS]

01:16:29   worth of their time [TS]

01:16:30   justjust on appearances like the optics [TS]

01:16:33   of it alone it seems like why would you [TS]

01:16:35   not do that and that though that's the [TS]

01:16:36   that is the thing you know when when [TS]

01:16:41   when you're talking to 25 year-olds and [TS]

01:16:43   they're like well why doesn't just basis [TS]

01:16:44   just pay the extra quarter for everybody [TS]

01:16:47   it's like yes but the number of those [TS]

01:16:52   things that the the bus fare the housing [TS]

01:16:58   problem the mental health problem right [TS]

01:17:02   like what we what we really need every [TS]

01:17:05   person i talk to us like what we really [TS]

01:17:06   need and you go [TS]

01:17:09   we really do need a better mental health [TS]

01:17:12   system where there are you know we [TS]

01:17:15   closed the asylums and put all the [TS]

01:17:18   people that used to be housed in asylums [TS]

01:17:22   back on the streets [TS]

01:17:23   yep and really what we should probably [TS]

01:17:27   do is build some asylums again or go get [TS]

01:17:31   those ones that we decommissioned before [TS]

01:17:33   they [TS]

01:17:34   fall into the ground and paint them and [TS]

01:17:37   and get them working again and now we [TS]

01:17:39   think about them differently we don't [TS]

01:17:42   just one flew over the cuckoo's nest [TS]

01:17:44   them but there are some people that need [TS]

01:17:47   a place to be and that and they're never [TS]

01:17:50   going to be reintegrated into society [TS]

01:17:52   sites besides nowhere or jail [TS]

01:17:54   besides nowhere or jail right besides a [TS]

01:17:56   doorway or jail and it needs to be a [TS]

01:17:59   thing that society funds and it needs to [TS]

01:18:01   be a comfortable safe place and some of [TS]

01:18:03   those people are going to be violence or [TS]

01:18:05   angry or you know and they're in there [TS]

01:18:08   need to be trained people there like at [TS]

01:18:11   every step of the way we need is we need [TS]

01:18:15   so much right these facilities you think [TS]

01:18:19   about all the single mothers who are who [TS]

01:18:22   end up homeless and they end up homeless [TS]

01:18:24   because it's fucking hard to stay on top [TS]

01:18:28   of the game and you've got two kids and [TS]

01:18:29   all of a sudden you're living in your [TS]

01:18:30   car and you don't even think of yourself [TS]

01:18:32   as homeless you're just in between [TS]

01:18:33   places you're living in your car and the [TS]

01:18:35   kids have got to get to school and [TS]

01:18:37   you've got to get to work and you're in [TS]

01:18:38   your car and and that mother isn't even [TS]

01:18:43   letting on to her kids that she's in [TS]

01:18:44   trouble she's just like hey we're having [TS]

01:18:46   fun we're living in our car for a little [TS]

01:18:47   while mama figures out the next move and [TS]

01:18:52   what we could do to help her or to make [TS]

01:18:55   sure that that you know that that that [TS]

01:18:59   that for a couple weeks she's doing that [TS]

01:19:02   and then she reached then something else [TS]

01:19:04   bad happens the car breaks down right or [TS]

01:19:07   you know and then she really needs [TS]

01:19:10   there's no wiggle room right then she [TS]

01:19:12   really needs help and when she really [TS]

01:19:14   needs help at that point when she's like [TS]

01:19:16   oh fuck i'm up against the wall she [TS]

01:19:19   rolls into someplace and they're like [TS]

01:19:21   sit down and fill out this form now [TS]

01:19:23   you're on a waiting list six months from [TS]

01:19:26   now will call you know and it's just [TS]

01:19:28   like no there's we don't have enough [TS]

01:19:31   wiggle room for so many people and and [TS]

01:19:38   yet we have obscene amounts of money [TS]

01:19:41   right rich kids on instagram is also [TS]

01:19:44   happening simultaneous to this [TS]

01:19:46   and that that doesn't flame people and [TS]

01:19:51   it and and the and the people that would [TS]

01:19:52   tell us that it's unrelated are wrong [TS]

01:19:55   and there's you know they're there it is [TS]

01:20:00   related but what is it what is in our [TS]

01:20:03   power to do and I think that the era of [TS]

01:20:10   you know the area of armed revolution is [TS]

01:20:15   in our past the era of really of using [TS]

01:20:18   law as a as a cudgel is maybe in our [TS]

01:20:25   past just because those rich kids on [TS]

01:20:28   Instagram have the best lawyers you can [TS]

01:20:30   get I think we're entering in and into [TS]

01:20:33   an era where we have to wear empathy [TS]

01:20:37   actually is the agent and where we say [TS]

01:20:41   hey this is part of this is part of your [TS]

01:20:46   wealth and success it's an it's and it [TS]

01:20:48   is ultimately an auntie Tea Party [TS]

01:20:53   argument or an auntie and Rand argument [TS]

01:20:56   which is fine random sorry man I'm rond [TS]

01:21:01   which is that we are all in this [TS]

01:21:05   together your wealth did not come to you [TS]

01:21:07   sure a purely by your own ingenuity but [TS]

01:21:11   because we have provided this incubator [TS]

01:21:16   which is our whole culture and now you [TS]

01:21:20   know like you say wouldn't it be cool if [TS]

01:21:23   in addition to to building a private [TS]

01:21:26   space station or in addition to building [TS]

01:21:29   a really cool electric cars we also were [TS]

01:21:35   able to bolster the the the part of the [TS]

01:21:40   of the couch where the stuffing is [TS]

01:21:42   coming out [TS]

01:21:44   and you know do you start making that [TS]

01:21:47   argument on said council or do you start [TS]

01:21:50   making that argument on your [TS]

01:21:51   award-winning podcast like at what point [TS]

01:21:55   do we get enough people together into [TS]

01:21:58   this new way of thinking that's that's [TS]

01:21:59   less shouty and finger-pointing and [TS]

01:22:03   that's more just like a bunch of people [TS]

01:22:05   standing there with compassionate looks [TS]

01:22:08   on their faces saying hey we we don't [TS]

01:22:11   begrudge you your success but you know [TS]

01:22:17   chip in and that that doesn't mean go [TS]

01:22:19   work for houses for Humanity it means [TS]

01:22:21   like chip in right here [TS]

01:22:23   well this is that the the quite [TS]

01:22:24   interesting question to me is what [TS]

01:22:28   you're describing it sounds really [TS]

01:22:29   sensible it sounds like on the face of [TS]

01:22:31   it that there should be something it [TS]

01:22:33   let's put it this way it's not one of [TS]

01:22:34   those things that is a basically [TS]

01:22:36   impossible problem to solve it there is [TS]

01:22:39   obviously something that can be done by [TS]

01:22:41   somebody over some amount of time let's [TS]

01:22:43   just take that is red so the question is [TS]

01:22:45   how in your approach or your strategy or [TS]

01:22:49   however you want to phrase it how do you [TS]

01:22:50   differ from the other candidates and [TS]

01:22:53   what you would choose to do differently [TS]

01:22:54   in order to make something like that [TS]

01:22:56   happen [TS]

01:22:58   the exact question that gets asked every [TS]

01:23:02   day I'm sorry and no it's good it's good [TS]

01:23:04   it's it returned to be more empathetic [TS]

01:23:05   it's the good it is a good question and [TS]

01:23:08   you know ultimately the the first thing [TS]

01:23:11   I can say is no other candidate is [TS]

01:23:14   talking about this stuff that all this [TS]

01:23:15   way right because the because the the [TS]

01:23:18   conception is that all we have at our [TS]

01:23:21   disposal is either that we can sue [TS]

01:23:24   someone or pass a law that that requires [TS]

01:23:31   that they you know that they and usually [TS]

01:23:35   requires that they submit to attacks i [TS]

01:23:38   mean that tax is our is our only model [TS]

01:23:42   tablet you can also I mean I done it [TS]

01:23:46   seems like a strange part part of what [TS]

01:23:49   you do when you bring somebody and I [TS]

01:23:50   think this is a little bit random but [TS]

01:23:51   i'm thinking for example of like when [TS]

01:23:53   you bring people into like a foundation [TS]

01:23:54   board [TS]

01:23:55   you might bring somebody into a [TS]

01:23:56   foundation board because they're rich [TS]

01:23:58   person and they'll theoretically give [TS]

01:24:00   you a bunch of money but it could also [TS]

01:24:01   be more importantly that they're good at [TS]

01:24:03   getting money from other people that you [TS]

01:24:05   know through mostly connections that's [TS]

01:24:07   the wrong word but it seems like you [TS]

01:24:10   know you can also be kind of a statesman [TS]

01:24:12   who is good at making that case the [TS]

01:24:14   people with a goal of course i'd love to [TS]

01:24:15   help with that and I'll get my buddies [TS]

01:24:16   to help with that right and Bill Clinton [TS]

01:24:19   is great at this bill gates is good at [TS]

01:24:21   it [TS]

01:24:22   um but it is you know it's so often that [TS]

01:24:27   the the the what we perceive to be the [TS]

01:24:30   problem is i mean Bill Gates is has done [TS]

01:24:33   incredible work providing clean water to [TS]

01:24:36   people around the world he's saving tens [TS]

01:24:39   hundreds of thousands of lives [TS]

01:24:41   it's very much less glamorous to to [TS]

01:24:47   build a facility in seattle for homeless [TS]

01:24:52   mothers who have reached the end of [TS]

01:24:54   their rope there's no glamour in it [TS]

01:24:57   except except in the in that sort of the [TS]

01:25:04   big small picture which is what if we [TS]

01:25:07   built a city that had all of that with [TS]

01:25:11   that took care of everybody [TS]

01:25:12   it's also probably have an adventure i [TS]

01:25:16   guess it's a difference in approach or [TS]

01:25:17   outlook or composure I guess if you [TS]

01:25:23   think about think about the people who [TS]

01:25:24   if you wanna talk about entrepreneurs in [TS]

01:25:26   particular people who made a lot of [TS]

01:25:28   money you know through grit and [TS]

01:25:30   determination and maybe dirty dealings [TS]

01:25:32   whatever but the point is I you know in [TS]

01:25:34   the same way that there are certain [TS]

01:25:35   kinds of investors that are only [TS]

01:25:37   interested in angel funding there are [TS]

01:25:38   certain kinds you know I i would imagine [TS]

01:25:41   that for most biting philanthropist [TS]

01:25:44   there they're not as interested in the [TS]

01:25:48   net at the bottom of not this is good or [TS]

01:25:50   bad that they're not interested in the [TS]

01:25:51   in a system of nets at the bottom of the [TS]

01:25:54   building as they are in potentially [TS]

01:25:56   showing up that top floors of people [TS]

01:25:58   can't jump or even more deeply trying to [TS]

01:26:00   fundamentally change why somebody would [TS]

01:26:01   want to jump off that building and so in [TS]

01:26:03   that case I i wonder if it's something [TS]

01:26:05   where they talk about that not being [TS]

01:26:06   very glamorous it certainly isn't it [TS]

01:26:08   can the NIMBY stuff and all that I want [TS]

01:26:10   to be more interested in some kind of [TS]

01:26:14   programs that try to get get at that [TS]

01:26:17   problem maybe not as early as John [TS]

01:26:19   education maybe not as late as a shelter [TS]

01:26:21   but somewhere in between so kind of [TS]

01:26:23   intervention type thing you don't mean [TS]

01:26:25   is it but I bet they'd be more [TS]

01:26:26   interested in getting the problem [TS]

01:26:28   earlier on [TS]

01:26:29   well but that is exactly the way that [TS]

01:26:31   we've been thinking about it for you [TS]

01:26:33   know the second half of the 20th century [TS]

01:26:35   and then just becomes a series of costly [TS]

01:26:36   experiments [TS]

01:26:37   well and just a kind of whack Amole like [TS]

01:26:39   yes [TS]

01:26:41   education is key and his is proved but [TS]

01:26:44   you know but who is proved too to keep [TS]

01:26:48   kids out of jail right later on in life [TS]

01:26:51   but there's a whole lot of you who wants [TS]

01:26:55   to fund quality education in seattle [TS]

01:26:57   schools there any billionaire want to [TS]

01:26:59   step up and do that [TS]

01:27:01   hello hello zepp right are you still on [TS]

01:27:04   the line like the only way we have to [TS]

01:27:07   fund Seattle schools is through attacks [TS]

01:27:09   and the only way that we are allowed to [TS]

01:27:11   apply that tax is to the you know to [TS]

01:27:15   everybody and we can do it through car [TS]

01:27:17   tabs or we can do it through property [TS]

01:27:19   tax or we can do it you know whether [TS]

01:27:21   there are only so many ways to to to [TS]

01:27:24   fund it and the rich people have really [TS]

01:27:27   good excellent ways of avoiding paying [TS]

01:27:30   their tax and so it falls to the middle [TS]

01:27:34   class over and over and over and it [TS]

01:27:36   would be wonderful if someone stepped [TS]

01:27:38   forward and said I'll fun the Seattle [TS]

01:27:40   schools with the rounding error on my [TS]

01:27:42   you know on you I ego project over here [TS]

01:27:45   and then there would be people that are [TS]

01:27:47   like but but what about the homeless [TS]

01:27:49   mothers and you know there's my [TS]

01:27:52   principle is that if we I mean we all [TS]

01:27:56   want we all want 40 years from now to [TS]

01:27:59   have our city look and be a certain kind [TS]

01:28:05   of pleasant prosperous place huh [TS]

01:28:08   I can't imagine anybody with nobody [TS]

01:28:09   would just reject that on the face it no [TS]

01:28:12   one would reject it on the face of it [TS]

01:28:13   and everybody's got a different idea [TS]

01:28:14   about how to get there and a lot of [TS]

01:28:17   people are like we just need to build [TS]

01:28:19   taller buildings with bigger fences to [TS]

01:28:20   keep people from jump [TS]

01:28:21   off and then there are people that are [TS]

01:28:23   like well the people that are falling [TS]

01:28:24   off that building aren't jumping they're [TS]

01:28:27   getting pushed i'm sorry there's a poor [TS]

01:28:28   analogy but you know what i mean like [TS]

01:28:29   your daughter who's living or whatever [TS]

01:28:31   and there are a lot of technologists [TS]

01:28:33   that do believe that the technology is [TS]

01:28:35   just eventually going to make it [TS]

01:28:36   impossible to be poor but when you look [TS]

01:28:39   at the way that that actually works [TS]

01:28:41   there just the they're assuming [TS]

01:28:43   trickle-down economics they're using [TS]

01:28:45   george herbert walker bushes philosophy [TS]

01:28:48   that a rising tide lifts all boats and [TS]

01:28:51   it just is demonstrable eon true right [TS]

01:28:54   over the rich are getting richer but i [TS]

01:28:59   do believe that we can say here's the [TS]

01:29:01   city we want [TS]

01:29:02   here's the city that we want and this is [TS]

01:29:05   what it should look like and get [TS]

01:29:07   everybody kind of onboard for the for [TS]

01:29:11   some basic principles 40 years from now [TS]

01:29:16   there shouldn't be a homeless person in [TS]

01:29:18   Seattle that has no other options [TS]

01:29:22   there's always gonna be somebody who's [TS]

01:29:24   like fuck you i'm going to live in a [TS]

01:29:25   garbage can [TS]

01:29:26   but most people don't want to and a lot [TS]

01:29:31   of the people that are living it that [TS]

01:29:33   are like fuck you I'm want to live in a [TS]

01:29:34   garbage can that it comes that night in [TS]

01:29:36   November where they're like god dammit [TS]

01:29:39   this was a bad idea right and in and we [TS]

01:29:44   and where such a punitive society and [TS]

01:29:48   end up in a moralistic one about about [TS]

01:29:52   homelessness and drugs and mental [TS]

01:29:53   illness we spend so much time saying [TS]

01:29:56   well that single mother with her two [TS]

01:29:59   kids should have smoked less pot in high [TS]

01:30:01   school and done a little bit better and [TS]

01:30:02   gone to tech school you know there's [TS]

01:30:05   that there's that instinct we are [TS]

01:30:07   oh we have in a as Americans to be like [TS]

01:30:09   it's probably hurtful [TS]

01:30:11   yeah and that judgmentalism keeps us [TS]

01:30:16   from being able to have a at a real [TS]

01:30:20   compassionate system because there's [TS]

01:30:23   always somebody that's going to say i [TS]

01:30:25   don't want my tax dollars to go to [TS]

01:30:27   mollycoddle these these whores and it's [TS]

01:30:33   just like well you know what that's [TS]

01:30:35   really [TS]

01:30:35   not how it is and and we and and the [TS]

01:30:39   most of us here in Seattle recognize [TS]

01:30:41   that and that's what you need is just [TS]

01:30:44   the most of us but to get to get that [TS]

01:30:47   vision of the city and then start [TS]

01:30:48   reverse engineering practices rather [TS]

01:30:51   than trying to build that city by each [TS]

01:30:55   person saying well here's what we need [TS]

01:30:56   here is what we need is we need to get [TS]

01:31:00   get the picture first and then say what [TS]

01:31:04   does that look like you know that what [TS]

01:31:05   that's the 40 year plan now what did [TS]

01:31:07   that look like at 30 years what did that [TS]

01:31:09   look like it 20 years how would we get [TS]

01:31:11   there and and build backwards from the [TS]

01:31:16   from the goal and yeah and i think it [TS]

01:31:20   will surprise us as we get like what did [TS]

01:31:22   that look like a 10 years [TS]

01:31:23   oh shit right that's what it looked like [TS]

01:31:26   it 10 years and so to get to their we [TS]

01:31:30   have to reevaluate what we're doing now [TS]

01:31:32   we can't just keep you know keep [TS]

01:31:36   flopping around like a bunch of a like a [TS]

01:31:39   bunch of koi whose pond drained we need [TS]

01:31:45   a we need to like get off get off of [TS]

01:31:48   this get out of this rut and start doing [TS]

01:31:51   some some weird and wonderful stuff now [TS]

01:31:54   that will put us there in 10 years which [TS]

01:31:57   isn't a solution but it is it's on the [TS]

01:32:01   path to where we want to be in 20 years [TS]

01:32:03   ever so that's the story that i'm trying [TS]

01:32:07   to you know bring to the to this [TS]

01:32:10   election and and that's what I'm trying [TS]

01:32:11   to say about Seattle that we've tried [TS]

01:32:15   all the we tried all this incremental [TS]

01:32:19   like well what we need is you know we [TS]

01:32:22   need to hire one more social worker to [TS]

01:32:25   help fill out the forms at the office [TS]

01:32:28   where you get in line for the for [TS]

01:32:31   emergency housing it's like well we need [TS]

01:32:34   more than that right we need to build we [TS]

01:32:37   need to build and we need to build [TS]

01:32:40   across a wide spectrum we need to fund [TS]

01:32:43   the schools as though we're going to [TS]

01:32:45   have to keep funding schools and not [TS]

01:32:46   like the way we fund Seattle schools is [TS]

01:32:48   we [TS]

01:32:49   pass a bond for two years as though two [TS]

01:32:52   years from now maybe there we won't have [TS]

01:32:54   to pay for schools anymore [TS]

01:32:56   fine an example if I understand what [TS]

01:32:59   you're saying it's like well well how [TS]

01:33:00   did they end up with that is the best [TS]

01:33:02   solution [TS]

01:33:03   yes exactly i mean harvard univ Harvard [TS]

01:33:06   University figured out a long time ago [TS]

01:33:08   that they needed an endowment right we [TS]

01:33:11   don't have an in down moment for our [TS]

01:33:13   public schools and well you know whether [TS]

01:33:19   that was gutted or whether if you know [TS]

01:33:21   whether it was it's just in this [TS]

01:33:23   back-and-forth of like oh now now we [TS]

01:33:26   don't pay taxes now we do this person is [TS]

01:33:28   against it this person thinks the [TS]

01:33:29   schools are full of maggots like how do [TS]

01:33:32   we how do we go against this but how do [TS]

01:33:35   we deep politicize things like schools [TS]

01:33:38   so that the state legislature doesn't [TS]

01:33:43   decide that this that that because there [TS]

01:33:45   was one gay art teacher in shoreline [TS]

01:33:48   that we don't teach art anymore is that [TS]

01:33:53   even vaguely close to a real world [TS]

01:33:55   example I mean why the why the why the [TS]

01:33:59   holy jesus fuck don't we have money for [TS]

01:34:02   schools in America right [TS]

01:34:04   why are those things tied to cart abs [TS]

01:34:07   it's it's bonkers particularly bonkers [TS]

01:34:12   when you think that the state of [TS]

01:34:14   California is subsidizing the water for [TS]

01:34:18   a bunch of raspberry farmers and the [TS]

01:34:21   City of Seattle has two three billion [TS]

01:34:23   dollars on tap to build a tunnel under [TS]

01:34:26   the city that will be obsolete obsolete [TS]

01:34:29   before the paint is dry right after we [TS]

01:34:32   do you know how much be frustrating it's [TS]

01:34:35   really great but if you put three [TS]

01:34:37   billion dollars in a in an endowment [TS]

01:34:39   fund and used and never touch the [TS]

01:34:42   principal and just use the interest to [TS]

01:34:44   pay for some facet of I mean it wouldn't [TS]

01:34:49   pay for all the schools but it would [TS]

01:34:50   sure as shit go a long way to funding [TS]

01:34:54   the schools in perpetuity right but [TS]

01:34:56   nobody's thinking about that and so you [TS]

01:34:58   know every year it's like oh shit we [TS]

01:35:00   don't have any money for libraries or [TS]

01:35:01   scream [TS]

01:35:02   that's why the the business part of it [TS]

01:35:04   kind of surprises me because I don't [TS]

01:35:06   know what I'm thinking of a particular [TS]

01:35:07   but i'm remembering few years back when [TS]

01:35:09   it seemed very surprising to me to hear [TS]

01:35:11   about how many leaders at big companies [TS]

01:35:16   were speaking openly about what the [TS]

01:35:20   achievement gap in America and basically [TS]

01:35:22   they realize that it was getting harder [TS]

01:35:25   to enter my Morsi this happened 20 years [TS]

01:35:28   ago but I could be remembering around [TS]

01:35:29   but they basically was it was obviously [TS]

01:35:31   getting harder to hire into certain [TS]

01:35:33   kinds of high tech careers that they [TS]

01:35:35   were already seeing that it was getting [TS]

01:35:37   harder and they were happy to do much [TS]

01:35:38   stuff I try and hire people from [TS]

01:35:39   overseas and I feel like I remember a [TS]

01:35:41   lot of people saying hey look we need to [TS]

01:35:43   invest in these kinds of careers for [TS]

01:35:45   people who aren't even in school yet [TS]

01:35:46   right these are the kinds of systems [TS]

01:35:48   like that kind of remember first hearing [TS]

01:35:50   thinking wow that is really forward [TS]

01:35:51   thinking and really abstract and a lot [TS]

01:35:54   of ways no direct benefits to any given [TS]

01:35:57   company no roi they could put a floor [TS]

01:35:59   about that whereas something like Jeff [TS]

01:36:01   basis I don't think he's going anywhere [TS]

01:36:03   I think he's going or maybe costco any [TS]

01:36:06   of those companies starbucks that are so [TS]

01:36:08   associated with that area it seems like [TS]

01:36:11   kind of a no-brainer [TS]

01:36:13   I'm sure they know give out bottled [TS]

01:36:15   water and t-shirts and balloons at [TS]

01:36:17   festivals and stuff but it just seems [TS]

01:36:18   like it seems like such a no-brainer to [TS]

01:36:20   invest in the community has a thing [TS]

01:36:23   without any let alone trying to be a [TS]

01:36:26   community that would be a desirable [TS]

01:36:27   place for people to move you know great [TS]

01:36:29   is it seems like half a dozen reasons [TS]

01:36:31   why you would want to find the budget [TS]

01:36:33   just even just to provide the nice [TS]

01:36:34   things let alone the essential things [TS]

01:36:36   well and that is that is assuming that [TS]

01:36:40   uh that I and it's an assumption that i [TS]

01:36:43   think most of the people making this [TS]

01:36:45   argument make which is that a the [TS]

01:36:47   assumption that our schools are are are [TS]

01:36:50   basically trade schools right just [TS]

01:36:53   making the economic impact argument that [TS]

01:36:57   if we have better schools that makes [TS]

01:36:59   better employees for amazon like that [TS]

01:37:03   alone is a blunt instrument but it's a [TS]

01:37:05   pretty I'll take it [TS]

01:37:06   yeah right that was the reason for [TS]

01:37:08   costco or Microsoft or or Vulcan or [TS]

01:37:12   starbucks or or amazon too [TS]

01:37:15   take an interest in Seattle Public [TS]

01:37:17   Schools then you get the opportunity I [TS]

01:37:20   mean you no way above that a thousand [TS]

01:37:22   miles above that is the opportunity to [TS]

01:37:25   be a true a benefactor and say schools [TS]

01:37:32   need art programs schools need poetry [TS]

01:37:36   schools need dance schools you know [TS]

01:37:40   we're not just using schools as a [TS]

01:37:42   training program for people to work in [TS]

01:37:44   assembly scenarios or coding scenarios [TS]

01:37:48   with coding is being the modern assembly [TS]

01:37:50   but we want to we want our schools to to [TS]

01:37:56   create citizens because those are the [TS]

01:37:59   people who are going to really advance [TS]

01:38:01   the ball in 30 years and you know that's [TS]

01:38:05   an argument that i think a lot of [TS]

01:38:06   capitalists would be really interested [TS]

01:38:11   in right it just doesn't have it's just [TS]

01:38:15   much easier to show up at the at the job [TS]

01:38:17   fair with a bunch of balloons and say [TS]

01:38:21   you know apply for a job as a coder here [TS]

01:38:25   and you know and then maybe you'll get a [TS]

01:38:29   chance to join our program where we are [TS]

01:38:31   we're building windmills in South [TS]

01:38:36   America that wins all around because you [TS]

01:38:38   know gosh I don't get to San Francisco [TS]

01:38:41   but you know just thinking about my [TS]

01:38:43   friend you are already in the San [TS]

01:38:45   Francisco I now but we were just talking [TS]

01:38:49   with my wife about this and how I don't [TS]

01:38:52   know it was the funny thing about a [TS]

01:38:53   bubble is that the longer the bubble [TS]

01:38:57   sticks around and the bigger the bubble [TS]

01:38:58   gets the irony is that the bubble is not [TS]

01:39:02   actually getting stronger [TS]

01:39:04   the bubble is getting weaker as it gets [TS]

01:39:06   bigger and that's true for soap bubbles [TS]

01:39:08   and it's true for San Francisco bubbles [TS]

01:39:10   the bigger it gets the more we feel the [TS]

01:39:12   huge impact of this bubble here it is i [TS]

01:39:14   mean it's bad i didn't just been working [TS]

01:39:16   too much but it's bad here it's really [TS]

01:39:17   really it's gross [TS]

01:39:19   there's not a noble gross stuff going on [TS]

01:39:21   right now in San Francisco because [TS]

01:39:23   everybody wants to get in on this [TS]

01:39:25   because you know growing bubble thing [TS]

01:39:28   but you know again i'm not i'm not an [TS]

01:39:29   econometrician but i think that public [TS]

01:39:32   gets bigger it does become a lot easier [TS]

01:39:34   to burst and you don't have to look more [TS]

01:39:37   than five or six years in the past to [TS]

01:39:38   see what happened in a bubble which is [TS]

01:39:41   that everybody thought the housing [TS]

01:39:42   prices were going to go up and up and up [TS]

01:39:43   without regard to how those loans are [TS]

01:39:45   being made and whether people should [TS]

01:39:46   have them and look look what happened [TS]

01:39:48   there so I mean how long is it going to [TS]

01:39:50   be here before you got a bunch of people [TS]

01:39:53   suddenly and i'm going to talk about the [TS]

01:39:55   earthquake scenario I'm just talking [TS]

01:39:56   about your basic economic tip wear boots [TS]

01:39:59   and selling the bubbles not there is a [TS]

01:40:01   bunch of people with leases and [TS]

01:40:02   mortgages on places that are suddenly [TS]

01:40:05   within say six months you know thirty [TS]

01:40:08   percent over market value fifty percent [TS]

01:40:09   over market value you know what I mean [TS]

01:40:11   yeah and that's it's the the scary part [TS]

01:40:15   in some ways you see so much destruction [TS]

01:40:16   so many businesses that have been in [TS]

01:40:19   families and artists people have been in [TS]

01:40:20   town for dozens of years just going away [TS]

01:40:22   because somebody else's that space [TS]

01:40:24   go go go shut down all these bars [TS]

01:40:26   because these condos moved in here now [TS]

01:40:27   there's all this stuff and like each one [TS]

01:40:29   of those little things in independent of [TS]

01:40:31   one another is not like a huge momentous [TS]

01:40:34   thing like any tragedy doesn't all [TS]

01:40:36   happen in one day but you know that [TS]

01:40:38   really starts to add up until there's [TS]

01:40:40   gonna be a point i think we're more [TS]

01:40:41   people going and not really sure I want [TS]

01:40:43   to live there and it's gonna get super [TS]

01:40:46   expensive until the day it doesn't get [TS]

01:40:47   expensive and then we're going to have a [TS]

01:40:49   cultural wasteland where everything was [TS]

01:40:51   a little bit overpriced few months ago [TS]

01:40:53   and now what the fuck are we gonna do [TS]

01:40:54   what more was like when Walmart moves [TS]

01:40:56   out of town so first shut down every [TS]

01:40:58   place in walmart moves and you got [TS]

01:40:59   nothing it's that that's terrifying to [TS]

01:41:01   me to you know that people are coming in [TS]

01:41:03   here and treating a little bit like a [TS]

01:41:05   gold rush town without necessarily [TS]

01:41:06   investing much and what would keep this [TS]

01:41:09   place sustainable and desirable for [TS]

01:41:12   people and this and we've talked about [TS]

01:41:13   this before but this is the moment in [TS]

01:41:16   world history I guess where we are you [TS]

01:41:23   know we're up against the fact that a [TS]

01:41:26   pure market is just a thought technology [TS]

01:41:31   fright friend right and the the history [TS]

01:41:35   of the eighteenth nineteenth and [TS]

01:41:38   twentieth centuries [TS]

01:41:39   our histories of political ideologies [TS]

01:41:42   that attempted to rein in and govern [TS]

01:41:45   market mercantilism and we saw a lot of [TS]

01:41:52   different attempts to do it and you know [TS]

01:41:55   unfortunately some of those attempts [TS]

01:41:58   were very ideological they came at a [TS]

01:42:02   time when technology allowed people you [TS]

01:42:06   know to literally stamp numbers on other [TS]

01:42:10   people right and mass murder them in [TS]

01:42:14   conjunction with market reforms and that [TS]

01:42:18   really discredited a lot of that a lot [TS]

01:42:22   of the ideology and some of that [TS]

01:42:24   ideology was way up in the sky and it [TS]

01:42:27   and it did not reflect the actual truth [TS]

01:42:29   of people but it doesn't mean that that [TS]

01:42:36   that or the end result is that we just [TS]

01:42:39   accept that market is the God and people [TS]

01:42:45   keep saying to me like what would it [TS]

01:42:48   mean it's the it's the market you can't [TS]

01:42:51   make people want to come in they want to [TS]

01:42:53   buy you can't stop them right and it's [TS]

01:42:56   like the the markets a lot more comp [TS]

01:42:59   complex than that and it is governor [TS]

01:43:02   mobile well yeah I mean it's it seems a [TS]

01:43:04   little bit i ran a little bit [TS]

01:43:06   intellectually flabby to just say well [TS]

01:43:10   supply and demand are these natural [TS]

01:43:12   forces in the world haha but because [TS]

01:43:16   been hella hella yes because there's a [TS]

01:43:19   lot more to it than that i saw an [TS]

01:43:21   article in the paper in the last six [TS]

01:43:24   months about it's become very easy i [TS]

01:43:28   don't know i always think about parking [TS]

01:43:29   because you know the number of cars in [TS]

01:43:31   San Francisco versus number of spaces is [TS]

01:43:32   just as completely bananas and right now [TS]

01:43:35   there are there it's pretty easy like [TS]

01:43:38   you can walk down the big Street near my [TS]

01:43:39   house and CM almost every cannot almost [TS]

01:43:41   every car but probably third have the [TS]

01:43:43   cars have a disabled permit if you [TS]

01:43:45   disable permit you get a parking meter [TS]

01:43:46   for free very desirable and last I heard [TS]

01:43:50   the number of disabled permits that have [TS]

01:43:52   been [TS]

01:43:53   given out versus the number of spaces in [TS]

01:43:55   the city this is approximately twice as [TS]

01:43:57   many just disabled permanent way I think [TS]

01:44:00   that was accurate here's another fun one [TS]

01:44:02   of my wife just changed jobs [TS]

01:44:04   she's going back to like a real career [TS]

01:44:07   full-time career and so she's going to [TS]

01:44:10   this new she working on this device new [TS]

01:44:11   campus on in town but she found out that [TS]

01:44:15   of course it's impossible to park you [TS]

01:44:17   know you you could take me but then [TS]

01:44:19   that's gonna be an hour and half to two [TS]

01:44:20   hours so she drives a lot and that might [TS]

01:44:23   be thirty bucks a day she found out that [TS]

01:44:25   at the main campus where the hospital is [TS]

01:44:27   for ucsf you know the waiting list is [TS]

01:44:30   for employee parking 25 years there's [TS]

01:44:34   two things that are funny about that one [TS]

01:44:36   thing that's funny about that is that [TS]

01:44:37   it's a fucking 25 year waiting list to [TS]

01:44:40   get a parking permit but then what makes [TS]

01:44:42   it extra funny it's still there still [TS]

01:44:44   people adding their name to that list [TS]

01:44:47   that's the market there's the market for [TS]

01:44:48   you because that same but it's so good [TS]

01:44:52   well and as I keep saying up here and [TS]

01:44:54   it's true san francisco right from the [TS]

01:44:56   from the day that San Francisco was [TS]

01:44:58   founded until the last 10 years you [TS]

01:45:02   could be a working-class person and live [TS]

01:45:04   almost there anywhere i mean you know [TS]

01:45:07   there are a few neighborhoods you [TS]

01:45:09   couldn't live in but for the most part [TS]

01:45:11   you could live in downtown San Francisco [TS]

01:45:13   as a working-class person and you could [TS]

01:45:15   do that all the way through until just [TS]

01:45:19   recently and in Seattle that's been true [TS]

01:45:22   until just five ten years ago you could [TS]

01:45:25   be a working-class person and let's [TS]

01:45:26   choose any neighborhood you wanted to [TS]

01:45:27   live in and live there and so in the [TS]

01:45:33   hundred and fifty plus years that [TS]

01:45:35   Seattle's been a city for us to say well [TS]

01:45:39   in the last five years you can't be a [TS]

01:45:42   working-class person and live anywhere [TS]

01:45:43   in the city and that's the new normal [TS]

01:45:44   and that's just how it is that's just [TS]

01:45:46   how markets work sorry market john sorry [TS]

01:45:48   next that's just how it is i mean what [TS]

01:45:50   are you some kind of communist what do [TS]

01:45:52   you want to poop like the markets and [TS]

01:45:55   that's how it is so figures on I want to [TS]

01:45:59   change natural law black habla figure [TS]

01:46:01   something else out because you can't do [TS]

01:46:03   anything about that and it's like one [TS]

01:46:06   of those mentalities is crazy you know [TS]

01:46:10   and I don't think it is that you should [TS]

01:46:13   be able to live anywhere in Seattle [TS]

01:46:14   still as we have always been able to do [TS]

01:46:18   I don't think that that is the crazy 1i [TS]

01:46:21   think the crazy one is that if you're [TS]

01:46:23   working class person you should have to [TS]

01:46:24   you have to drive 45 minutes and pay [TS]

01:46:29   thirty dollars a day and parking because [TS]

01:46:31   what we've decided now is that the [TS]

01:46:33   market has just determined that Seattle [TS]

01:46:38   land is worth more than diamonds and the [TS]

01:46:44   reason for that is that that's where [TS]

01:46:47   people you know that's because people [TS]

01:46:50   want to walk to people who have $250,000 [TS]

01:46:53   your jobs want to walk to work [TS]

01:46:54   it's like that is good but we didn't do [TS]

01:46:57   very good planning right and planning is [TS]

01:47:02   the is the key and and a sense that that [TS]

01:47:07   none of these things are set in stone [TS]

01:47:10   capitalism did not win any any like epic [TS]

01:47:15   battle of ideologies so that it is just [TS]

01:47:19   unassailable from here on out and it has [TS]

01:47:22   its acolytes who are going to argue for [TS]

01:47:23   it and they will call you a communist if [TS]

01:47:27   you try and talk about any kind of [TS]

01:47:30   regulation and there are people who [TS]

01:47:32   believe that governments are the soul of [TS]

01:47:35   evil but the fact is this is an ongoing [TS]

01:47:39   process we're still trying to navigate [TS]

01:47:41   how to be human beings and govern [TS]

01:47:43   ourselves and its ongoing and where an [TS]

01:47:48   exciting moment and and the pressure [TS]

01:47:51   that's being put on us by this by this [TS]

01:47:53   insanity is the pressure that's going to [TS]

01:47:56   develop new thinking and that should be [TS]

01:47:59   always exciting to us you know [TS]

01:48:01   yeah new thinking and the people in San [TS]

01:48:04   Francisco and New York City and in [TS]

01:48:06   Seattle who are realizing like you know [TS]

01:48:12   my house was worth 200 thousand dollars [TS]

01:48:14   in 2002 then it was worth 500 [TS]

01:48:19   some dollars in 2007 that seems crazy [TS]

01:48:23   yeah then it was worth a hundred and [TS]

01:48:25   ninety eight thousand dollars in 2007 [TS]

01:48:27   and a half seems crazy and now it's [TS]

01:48:31   worth 600 thousand dollars in 2015 and [TS]

01:48:35   I'm starting to see a pattern which is [TS]

01:48:38   that that is crazy [TS]

01:48:39   yep and so what do you do [TS]

01:48:43   lay down did you lay down in your [TS]

01:48:45   bathtub and eat a meatball sandwich or [TS]

01:48:47   you run for fucking City Council [TS]

01:48:48   yeah i agree i translated to my kid like [TS]

01:48:53   why you know it you know she's drills at [TS]

01:48:55   school my homeboy welcome welcome [TS]

01:48:57   welcome to the 2010 xian drills like you [TS]

01:49:00   mean earthquake drills know they [TS]

01:49:02   literally giving drills now they have [TS]

01:49:04   yeah they have different drills to get [TS]

01:49:05   fire girls you know they have lockdown [TS]

01:49:07   drills you believe that for a gun cases [TS]

01:49:11   like a school lockdown but the point is [TS]

01:49:13   the guy you know you gotta try to [TS]

01:49:14   explain to a kid like I'm trying to [TS]

01:49:15   split look I understand that you have [TS]

01:49:17   made a great Chinese wall of stuffed [TS]

01:49:20   animals across your room and that's the [TS]

01:49:22   thing that you don't want to disturb but [TS]

01:49:24   like it's important for you to leave a [TS]

01:49:25   space in there so because if there's a [TS]

01:49:28   fire [TS]

01:49:28   I don't want to scare you here but if [TS]

01:49:29   there's a fire you're gonna want to be [TS]

01:49:30   able to get out of the house without [TS]

01:49:32   tripping on a pair and it's very [TS]

01:49:34   difficult to explain why we have to [TS]

01:49:37   practice these things like a fire drill [TS]

01:49:39   or any that's why we have to practice [TS]

01:49:41   them in moments of quiet repose do it [TS]

01:49:44   until it starts to feel like it's not [TS]

01:49:46   going to be a panic because when the [TS]

01:49:47   actual fire happens you don't you don't [TS]

01:49:49   have time to think the poor analogy I'm [TS]

01:49:52   trying to make here is that the problem [TS]

01:49:54   is now we're in the middle of a blaze in [TS]

01:49:56   our town itself to some extent in your [TS]

01:49:57   town coming [TS]

01:49:59   well it's it's kind of it's kind of too [TS]

01:50:00   late to figure out what this fire [TS]

01:50:02   strategy is because now we just need to [TS]

01:50:03   focus on putting out the the blazes yeah [TS]

01:50:06   right i mean in San Francisco you can't [TS]

01:50:09   even live in oakland anymore right [TS]

01:50:13   nope nope shoes and my wife is talking [TS]

01:50:15   cuz it's certainly sure thought about [TS]

01:50:16   and yeah just go it's actually not too [TS]

01:50:19   bad you know it's just only like it's [TS]

01:50:21   like a two-hour Bart trip pretty much [TS]

01:50:23   it's like wow talk about quality of life [TS]

01:50:26   yeah no no it's pretty bad i'm anxious [TS]

01:50:28   to see you next to see how this [TS]

01:50:29   continues to evolve and it's going [TS]

01:50:31   pretty fast [TS]

01:50:31   I just saw on your Twitter [TS]

01:50:32   her we shouldn't talk about this [TS]

01:50:34   probably you know you raise good money [TS]

01:50:36   it looks like oh uh in my campaign [TS]

01:50:40   yeah i'm now I'm failing at every on [TS]

01:50:42   every count here your Roderick Roderick [TS]

01:50:45   twitter account just retweeted something [TS]

01:50:46   that says you to pass your competitor [TS]

01:50:49   and fundraising oh no not-not-not my not [TS]

01:50:53   the big guy [TS]

01:50:54   oh this is a little guy yeah he the big [TS]

01:50:56   guys got got tons and tons of money [TS]

01:50:58   because he's you know he's got tons of [TS]

01:51:01   money tons of money because you know [TS]

01:51:03   because his he has actually fewer [TS]

01:51:05   contributors than we do but his [TS]

01:51:07   contributors all give seven hundred [TS]

01:51:09   dollars right right which is the maximum [TS]

01:51:11   and our contributors a lot of them you [TS]

01:51:13   know give 25 bucks and that's what they [TS]

01:51:15   can afford and that is amazing but it [TS]

01:51:17   makes you know it makes the makes [TS]

01:51:20   fundraising more of a challenge and the [TS]

01:51:21   thing is like I'm a huge supporter of [TS]

01:51:23   campaign finance reform and now I see [TS]

01:51:26   how much better it would be even in [TS]

01:51:30   something as small as the city council [TS]

01:51:32   race let alone imagining campaign [TS]

01:51:34   finance reform international skip the [TS]

01:51:36   Senate race what a difference that would [TS]

01:51:37   make you know think about the million [TS]

01:51:39   plus dollars you have to raise and every [TS]

01:51:41   dollar you take from somebody they [TS]

01:51:42   handed to you and look you in the eye [TS]

01:51:44   and go you're not gonna fuck me later [TS]

01:51:45   when I need you to change the law for my [TS]

01:51:48   bulldozer company are you and you know [TS]

01:51:51   you see it everyday like oh Jesus uh no [TS]

01:51:54   sir thank you know you've got that [TS]

01:51:55   you've got half the check in your hand [TS]

01:51:57   and he's like you know one day I'm gonna [TS]

01:52:01   ask you for a favor that and then at the [TS]

01:52:04   end this day but make them look what [TS]

01:52:07   they did to my beautiful boy you get a [TS]

01:52:10   lot of you could you seek a lot of help [TS]

01:52:12   from morticians you know you probably [TS]

01:52:15   grant a lot of favors the morticians you [TS]

01:52:16   know how this business works [TS]

01:52:18   you don't you come to my daughter's [TS]

01:52:19   wedding and you asked me for this [TS]

01:52:21   this is that's like Marlon fact that [TS]

01:52:23   something your deck and the only 1i know [TS]

01:52:26   you know my dad and Marlon Brando once [TS]

01:52:29   had a confrontation [TS]

01:52:31   what ya can tell it [TS]

01:52:34   uh well i mean their protein know the [TS]

01:52:39   statute of limitations has run out right [TS]

01:52:41   it's true it's true like in person in an [TS]

01:52:45   in-person of [TS]

01:52:46   an in-person confrontation over a over [TS]

01:52:53   lady here are shitting me [TS]

01:52:59   I'm not I'm not shitting you what era in [TS]

01:53:02   the nineteen fifties so my dad was an [TS]

01:53:09   wasn't an actor [TS]

01:53:12   what I was one of his like it would you [TS]

01:53:16   know my dad always wanted to be you know [TS]

01:53:21   one of them demons [TS]

01:53:23   yeah and was but in the fifties when he [TS]

01:53:26   was a lawyer during and drinking he also [TS]

01:53:30   was a member of a theater group in [TS]

01:53:33   seattle the Cirque theater that did [TS]

01:53:35   productions in the round and in the [TS]

01:53:42   fifties he was doing a play at the [TS]

01:53:46   Cirque and young actress by the name of [TS]

01:53:50   rita moreno what was his co-star in a [TS]

01:53:57   play and my dad and Rita Moreno had a [TS]

01:54:01   little some sort of little you know time [TS]

01:54:10   Wow and a one-night my dad came out of [TS]

01:54:17   the theater with Rita Moreno and Marlon [TS]

01:54:21   Brando was waiting in the shadows [TS]

01:54:24   waiting in the in the bushes as my dad [TS]

01:54:29   described it [TS]

01:54:31   and he and rita moreno were already [TS]

01:54:35   acquainted and were also having a fair [TS]

01:54:40   decor [TS]

01:54:41   hmm this is you know early fifties and [TS]

01:54:48   they had a they had a little bit of a [TS]

01:54:50   you know a confrontation in the bushes [TS]

01:54:53   didn't you no no no no one raised fists [TS]

01:54:57   it was just like everybody I retired my [TS]

01:55:01   dad with her murder and you know that [TS]

01:55:03   and I was like whatever and then you [TS]

01:55:06   know I think that she saw that Marlon [TS]

01:55:09   Brando was of the two of them the one [TS]

01:55:12   that was probably your dad had to live [TS]

01:55:16   with that [TS]

01:55:16   soifer I mean speaking as someone who [TS]

01:55:20   has had similar sorts of experiences [TS]

01:55:24   you've been in the bushes [TS]

01:55:26   I've been in the bushes but not with [TS]

01:55:28   marlon brando but with you know other [TS]

01:55:29   younger Brando's you know you take you [TS]

01:55:33   take you take that away you walk you [TS]

01:55:35   walk away with that you realize like you [TS]

01:55:38   know we're all were all just just a [TS]

01:55:42   couple of kisses away from Kevin Bacon [TS]

01:55:43   there's you know there's nothing that [TS]

01:55:46   really special about other people [TS]

01:55:49   it's just that some of them are really [TS]

01:55:50   more beautiful and talented movie and [TS]

01:55:54   and you know what it out what how do you [TS]

01:55:58   mean basically how you how you deal with [TS]

01:56:02   that information how you shoulder that [TS]

01:56:04   burden it determines your course in life [TS]

01:56:07   I mean you could you could at my dad [TS]

01:56:11   could it could have dived into those [TS]

01:56:13   bushes he could grab Martin brand Marlon [TS]

01:56:15   Brando around there Martin Brando he [TS]

01:56:16   could've grabbed him Martin Brando [TS]

01:56:18   around the ankles and said take me with [TS]

01:56:20   you up here Karl Malden [TS]

01:56:25   [Music] [TS]