Roderick on the Line

Ep. 152: "Butterfly Farts"

 

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  [Music] [TS]

  hello hi John hi Merlin has gone well [TS]

  I'm finding my way back to you Merlin I [TS]

  know the frankie valli version of that [TS]

  best mhm it inside like cover right [TS]

  I like the way as you started to hum it [TS]

  its you started humming and then sort of [TS]

  the trumpets came in and then we're kind [TS]

  of doing a little bit of marching band [TS]

  version of it [TS]

  mmm tusk don't get to do 250 to do i'm [TS]

  intrigued by what marching bands [TS]

  besides you to play I you know it's fun [TS]

  to get to have fun with that they do it [TS]

  seems like that is one of the that's [TS]

  like the unifying characteristic of all [TS]

  marching bands isn't it fun is it is fun [TS]

  like in stage band you know we played [TS]

  standards and we played kind of like [TS]

  light fusion but mostly I was it was we [TS]

  did a terrible version of Night Train [TS]

  like awful version light rain [TS]

  oh I was uh it was pretty abysmal mean [TS]

  I'm own and my dream that someone Joey [TS]

  what is that I don't think that was the [TS]

  bird house the 1i train now one of the [TS]

  nice things about marching bands you get [TS]

  that can detect that like reverb ease [TS]

  snares I love 3i love all the drums all [TS]

  the great drums i love the glockenspiel [TS]

  I like when I we live kinda near high [TS]

  school and I love hearing that it still [TS]

  sounds so great [TS]

  Bingbing i have a you know uh my good [TS]

  good friend Maria was the clock and [TS]

  Peele player in the marching band i'm [TS]

  pretty sure [TS]

  Brady's bits my mother played [TS]

  glockenspiel around our i think a jam by [TS]

  going around again I was thinking about [TS]

  reverb the other day as you do and how [TS]

  thinking about I was thinking about how [TS]

  contemporary pop music almost all has [TS]

  this massive stadium reverb on [TS]

  everything we noticed this yeah i think [TS]

  i think i know what you mean especially [TS]

  the kind of like and again I will at [TS]

  this point just see myself out I don't [TS]

  know the name is a lot of bands but it's [TS]

  a certain kind of smooth [TS]

  middle-of-the-road emo ish kind of thing [TS]

  then it is very bombastic very big no no [TS]

  I mean like I think I know what you're [TS]

  talking about though there's a i mean i [TS]

  don't know maybe I think I know like [TS]

  it's just sounds big big big and of [TS]

  course be extinguished all the way up [TS]

  all the levels all the way up [TS]

  yeah it was thinking about in terms of [TS]

  of the fact that like songwriting now [TS]

  for the most part like where we've [TS]

  talked about this before where you know [TS]

  we're like yellow has great songwriting [TS]

  but also you can't divorce the [TS]

  songwriting from the production right i [TS]

  mean this is the think somebody asked me [TS]

  the other day like what do you think of [TS]

  Donovan I was like well you know those [TS]

  great Donovan singles like the [TS]

  production of them is as important as [TS]

  the as the song itself right like I [TS]

  hurdy gurdy man is a sound as much as it [TS]

  is a song [TS]

  yeah they got a kind of spooky feeling [TS]

  to houki and groove Ian like you know a [TS]

  stony droney but but in a way that if [TS]

  you do if you take any of those great [TS]

  cat stevens singles which are great [TS]

  sounding but then you could also just as [TS]

  we've seen innumerable times you could [TS]

  play them with a hat with your baseball [TS]

  hat on the ground in front of a sports [TS]

  stadium on a four string acoustic guitar [TS]

  and the song still translates who wears [TS]

  hurdy gurdy man something would be [TS]

  something would be lost to cover it [TS]

  because the tone anyway so as I think [TS]

  about contemporary pop music and listen [TS]

  to the song writing and I just AM like [TS]

  that i don't even hear the song really [TS]

  i'm not sure how you would even cover [TS]

  this song because the song is so much [TS]

  less important now than the sound and [TS]

  all these big big big radio hits now are [TS]

  just full of this epic sounding swelling [TS]

  chanting big drums lots of like hey and [TS]

  stuff you know like really and if i were [TS]

  a young person and this was my contempt [TS]

  very music i would really be under the [TS]

  impression that my emotions were on a [TS]

  you know my emotions were very important [TS]

  you know what I mean right yeah yeah [TS]

  yeah there's there's no there's no sense [TS]

  of like the way the motown a lot of [TS]

  ambiguity to a lot of it right and and [TS]

  it's not personal right it doesn't feel [TS]

  like all this song is about me and my [TS]

  you know and my broken hardness and my [TS]

  god it's just me and the singer I'm [TS]

  listening in this to this radio that's [TS]

  I'm coming in on on on on pirate radio [TS]

  from Mexico and you know and now it just [TS]

  feels like a like every song is so epic [TS]

  and the and so as a as a kid you'd be [TS]

  listening to this music you're like [TS]

  that's my tune and so it's a very [TS]

  important song and I must be a very [TS]

  important person [TS]

  yeah it's a knife and I and I and I [TS]

  attributed to the to the use of this the [TS]

  huge reverb on everything this like hey [TS]

  and you just feel like wow that's just [TS]

  echoing off the back of the stadium [TS]

  I think of it i think i think i know [TS]

  what you mean and but the nearest [TS]

  analogy from when I was younger I would [TS]

  probably be disco where I mean you know [TS]

  I take a song like KC and the Sunshine [TS]

  Band like they had some really good [TS]

  disco like party songs but they were [TS]

  kind of just a groove a lot of the time [TS]

  you and really was all about the [TS]

  production and you know getting the the [TS]

  drums and that all the percussion and [TS]

  all of the base you know way high and [TS]

  something may be seen out to be so it [TS]

  sounds good in a club but I think that's [TS]

  it's similar in that way where the way [TS]

  it sounds is a huge part of like what [TS]

  the song is right the way the way it [TS]

  sounds is the song but like the disco [TS]

  stuff the biggest like the the biggest [TS]

  that in the biggest space that intended [TS]

  to convey was a club right like you're [TS]

  listening that stuff and you're like [TS]

  yeah I'm feeling the base and i'm on the [TS]

  dance floor and i'm in a club and it's [TS]

  Saturday night that was the biggest that [TS]

  was as big as the space would be and so [TS]

  even still it could contain like the [TS]

  person i like is here [TS]

  dancing with someone else you know there [TS]

  was it was still in the realm of the [TS]

  personal but like these tunes now like [TS]

  the space that they are trying to convey [TS]

  is like we are marching through the [TS]

  desert waving giant red banners we are [TS]

  honored urgency [TS]

  yeah we are an army on the move we are [TS]

  we are crossing the steps and we are [TS]

  coming into Hungary it like it is it [TS]

  with my co adds so much huger sounding [TS]

  and there is in there at least to my [TS]

  ears doesn't feel like there's any space [TS]

  in there to be like I'm a person and the [TS]

  person i like is a is across the room [TS]

  it's much more like I'm in this army and [TS]

  we're moving together forward to like to [TS]

  do something ambiguous you know like I [TS]

  mean I think the taylor swift lyrics are [TS]

  still to the effect of like haters gonna [TS]

  hate but but it feels like it feels like [TS]

  haters are gonna hate in a giant giant [TS]

  right crystal but cathedral type of [TS]

  setting [TS]

  yeah you know I'm trying to I'm trying [TS]

  to think about this though because you [TS]

  know more about like how this stuff it's [TS]

  made an idea but i have a you know i'm [TS]

  not going to say grudging admiration I [TS]

  developed a kind of admiration for pop [TS]

  culture products even if it's not like [TS]

  something that I'm i really enjoy [TS]

  sometimes I hear something like I think [TS]

  her name is a pee ! i'll hear one of the [TS]

  the hair pink tune and like that Reddick [TS]

  raise your glass song it's it's such a [TS]

  great tune [TS]

  yeah and it's but it has that it has [TS]

  that I think that has a feeling you're [TS]

  talking about were like it's like it's [TS]

  such a rallying cry and I think it's a [TS]

  rallying cry about a party [TS]

  oh alright brown crab are you know [TS]

  there's a lot of those songs were like [TS]

  it you know it really it's and and the [TS]

  sound so derogatory don't mean because [TS]

  you know to each his own and people are [TS]

  successful it but yeah it does really [TS]

  feel like it really more more is is made [TS]

  to this is the same thing people been [TS]

  saying since the thirties probably he's [TS]

  not even used to live in a megaphone [TS]

  well I'm [TS]

  what is that a microphone in my day we [TS]

  have to sing into a cup that's to that [TS]

  Charlie but i think that i think there [TS]

  is something to it in the sense that a [TS]

  lot of covers that you see of modern pop [TS]

  tunes the cover really seeks to reinvent [TS]

  the tune right if you see somebody do a [TS]

  cover of a modern pop tune it's almost [TS]

  always like us they they take it they [TS]

  take a really hyped up big stadium tune [TS]

  and they can they play a sad acoustic [TS]

  guitar slow we be cover of it okay [TS]

  yeah it kind of arcade fire it yet they [TS]

  have because they have to because there [TS]

  isn't a way to do a straight cover of it [TS]

  right in order to do a straight cover [TS]

  you would need 18 people in your band [TS]

  and that seems a little antiquated to do [TS]

  like even back to what 15 20 years ago [TS]

  to the unplugged era where like Nirvana [TS]

  doing meat puppets covers in the way [TS]

  that they were doing them under rana CLE [TS]

  and like but also you like really gonna [TS]

  reinterpreting them significantly and [TS]

  yes [TS]

  yeah yeah and and but but like the tunes [TS]

  had the tunes had a chord structure [TS]

  right they weren't just like a drum loop [TS]

  and a and a and just tons and tons of [TS]

  reverb yeah it's a it's a it's an [TS]

  interesting evolution and I find myself [TS]

  driving along listening to pop music and [TS]

  feeling these big feeling this kind of [TS]

  epics well that you might that I might [TS]

  have once felt listening to the [TS]

  Scorpions worldwide live [TS]

  mhm right yeah uh but but the Scorpions [TS]

  you know haha even them at their biggest [TS]

  emotional swell it was he was still [TS]

  contained somewhat right it was like [TS]

  that was no I'm like yo and and year and [TS]

  you're imagining yourself in within the [TS]

  within that song and thinking like I [TS]

  think a lot of metal the way you were [TS]

  meant to imagine yourself in it was as a [TS]

  member of the band rather than like well [TS]

  that's really interesting you know what [TS]

  I mean like hoedown music you weren't [TS]

  meant to imagine yourself in the band [TS]

  you were meant to the music was was was [TS]

  capturing like who you were that you [TS]

  could use the song personally in sin in [TS]

  metal you were meant to imagine like [TS]

  here is how I'm overcoming my [TS]

  circumstances i am the guitarist in this [TS]

  band i'm singing this song and maybe the [TS]

  person the song is about is in the back [TS]

  of the auditorium [TS]

  uh-huh and I'm singing it to them but [TS]

  like that's the level of triumph and and [TS]

  I feel like we've now that evolution has [TS]

  continued and it's like the only way you [TS]

  can put yourself into a song now is as [TS]

  the star as the as the pop star who has [TS]

  triumphed over all and in case something [TS]

  like Taylor Swift her songs which I [TS]

  think are often things just extremely [TS]

  catchy and well done i'm not the male [TS]

  fan that some of my friends are but i [TS]

  really enjoy it every time I hear that [TS]

  shake it off so long i think that's it [TS]

  that's a really really great Explorer [TS]

  jam it into jam yeah but in her case [TS]

  like I think you are supposed place is [TS]

  gonna get so like first your philosophy [TS]

  class I think you really are supposed to [TS]

  put yourself in her position she is [TS]

  shoes she's in Taylors shoes she's [TS]

  singing a song about her life and this [TS]

  breakup I think more often than not and [TS]

  that's that supposed to have residents [TS]

  with you both on the level of like [TS]

  empathizing with taylor swift but also [TS]

  feeling that that same feeling yourself [TS]

  yeah that maybe one day if you do you [TS]

  know if you play your cards right that [TS]

  you two will have the moment you you too [TS]

  will be able to stand up on the big [TS]

  stage be the star and shake it off shake [TS]

  off the haters but you know having any [TS]

  kind of a message of empowerment in a [TS]

  song is is gonna resonate with somebody [TS]

  i think you know what I mean whereas in [TS]

  scorpions they got a guy with forks in [TS]

  his eyes you know that's a tough get was [TS]

  swollen when you think recover remember [TS]

  breakout that such a great cover [TS]

  walk quacks help that solo so what I was [TS]

  you know I i saw the Scorpions several [TS]

  times during the worldwide live you made [TS]

  eye contact with them [TS]

  that's right with [TS]

  a we get this wrong every every year so [TS]

  M we may well with the guitar players [TS]

  mm-hmm go ahead do this rocket is I said [TS]

  dubis rocket is that his name do this [TS]

  rocket after doing so [TS]

  rockin Stein him [TS]

  uh yeah yeah he he looked at me right [TS]

  right in the eyes [TS]

  yeah it's probably a wolf gang or a [TS]

  class or a it's a chancre was a chancre [TS]

  was no it wasn't the shake its not [TS]

  important to the story it was Matthias [TS]

  jab and Mattias jobs [TS]

  yes and and he and I had a moment boy [TS]

  I'm sure he had 40 of those moments that [TS]

  night really stuck with me i always [TS]

  wanted to always wanted a guitar with [TS]

  some stripes on it [TS]

  oh yeah he played like am like a context [TS]

  a modified explorer yeah or v EF knows [TS]

  that explore there was a it was a [TS]

  chancre was the other shanker that had [TS]

  the it was the young single letter [TS]

  shanker shaker filled that are single [TS]

  day and a shaker pair [TS]

  yeah yeah you got to get the original [TS]

  shanker from michael Shank Michael [TS]

  Schenker any little girl shanker well [TS]

  you got client a client shanker have you [TS]

  ever seen a have you ever seen Michael [TS]

  Schenker the mile sugar group msg [TS]

  mhm i am and i don't think i can name [TS]

  one of their songs to be honest [TS]

  well he is a phenomenal guitar player [TS]

  and and the the songs maybe and that's [TS]

  it that's a good example of the metal a [TS]

  corollary to this conversation which is [TS]

  that the songs are less important than [TS]

  the fluidity the fluidity of his he's [TS]

  recording like leader seventies early [TS]

  and mid eighties he's still touring I [TS]

  saw him last year [TS]

  wow I saw him at a barbecue restaurant [TS]

  in tacoma washington where every 15 [TS]

  minutes all of the waitresses suddenly [TS]

  jumped up on the tables and dance to a [TS]

  song and in short shorts and then got [TS]

  down and started waiting tables again [TS]

  that doesn't seem hygienic John it was [TS]

  it was really [TS]

  ah instructive [TS]

  it I i was reminded of i remind i was [TS]

  reminded that the rest of the world [TS]

  continues puttering along and even as as [TS]

  we hear in our in our internet tower [TS]

  like to think that we are somewhere else [TS]

  but sometimes it's useful to know that [TS]

  can i get an update from you we haven't [TS]

  done an update with from you in a while [TS]

  yeah so you you're still mostly driving [TS]

  the big new truck right [TS]

  no I have a I have so i have a jetta put [TS]

  the jetta first of all the jetta is [TS]

  ridiculous because it is a stud black [TS]

  jetta and looks like it's ridiculous 99 [TS]

  called they want their weapons come back [TS]

  exactly right I feel like everybody add [TS]

  one we had one everybody had one I feel [TS]

  like every time I step out of it that [TS]

  the pic the theme from friends should [TS]

  play we have a jetta wagon so don't feel [TS]

  too back [TS]

  yeah no identity damn and and so but the [TS]

  tabs expired recently and uh in order to [TS]

  get the tabs renewed I have to get an [TS]

  emissions test so then for a while i was [TS]

  driving a sort of a borrowed passat [TS]

  wagon little bit little bit bigger girl [TS]

  that was our aspirational mom and dad [TS]

  car that's a sweet ride [TS]

  SOT SOT was nice nice car but now that's [TS]

  gone again that's been taken away so [TS]

  today i am driving the truck yes [TS]

  ok so i ask because when you're riding [TS]

  around I know historically it has not [TS]

  been your habit to just listen to music [TS]

  as background stuff but like when you're [TS]

  in your repose and you're putting on the [TS]

  do you turn on the radio and when you [TS]

  turn on the radio what you listen to is [TS]

  that isn't an interesting question [TS]

  because I think I think that's an [TS]

  interesting question [TS]

  yeah you know I i always used to listen [TS]

  to sort of all these and watching the [TS]

  watching what the fight what what met [TS]

  the criteria of all these change that [TS]

  was really interesting to me you know it [TS]

  used to be like rockin Robin bop-bop-bop [TS]

  rockin Robin and then pretty soon it was [TS]

  like women I just hear black hole sun [TS]

  but with that but yes the first change [TS]

  was like when you started here crosby [TS]

  Stills and Nash you're like is that all [TS]

  Goldie is that what we're calling that [TS]

  now I thought that was a classic rock [TS]

  and now for sure it's like Tom Petty [TS]

  suddenly there's a shift in the last 10 [TS]

  years where it used to be like when we [TS]

  were coming up you have like the AOR [TS]

  stations that were playing you know [TS]

  whatever current and classic rock you [TS]

  know Julian classic rock but but then at [TS]

  some point you know you a question that [TS]

  the pop stations what I would then call [TS]

  a top-40 station and then at some point [TS]

  we've talked about kait here in town [TS]

  there's there are a lot of stations that [TS]

  are like the best of the best of the [TS]

  seventies eighties nineties in the 2,000 [TS]

  it's not just this mishmash of [TS]

  unobjectionable music a lot of times [TS]

  well yeah and that that's what's so [TS]

  crazy to me is that all that music used [TS]

  to mean so much within the context of [TS]

  its of its genre i will at the thing is [TS]

  it's like I'd like to say lobsters don't [TS]

  think of themselves primarily as food [TS]

  and in this case fans of Big Chill and [TS]

  post picture music have a very strong [TS]

  association with like there's so much [TS]

  specificity to like a witch jackson [TS]

  browne record you like that sounds like [TS]

  really old timey but you know which cat [TS]

  stevens which van morrison records like [TS]

  they aren't those are not oldies those [TS]

  are like works of art you know that and [TS]

  you wouldn't think of it as just getting [TS]

  tossed into the same pile based on age [TS]

  that still seems very strange and i have [TS]

  to say somewhat artificial I get why [TS]

  they do it demographically but it's [TS]

  still strange somebody who love that [TS]

  music and see the distinction between [TS]

  all these different things that i don't [TS]

  know i don't i'm not i'm not mad about [TS]

  it but I do think it's interesting that [TS]

  we mainly do it based on age with a [TS]

  slight access for demographics [TS]

  well we we always did but like recently [TS]

  I have noticed within the dance music [TS]

  radio a slot that craft works on the [TS]

  data is great he has a lot of that there [TS]

  is now I mean back and i think that this [TS]

  is happening in rock music too and in [TS]

  folk music right there it gets divorced [TS]

  from context increasingly and I think [TS]

  for a while I was just as all of us old [TS]

  people are uh I was freaked out by [TS]

  divorcing it from context you could not [TS]

  put an ac/dc song [TS]

  next to a talking head song on the radio [TS]

  it didn't make any sense they were from [TS]

  different universes [TS]

  I don't understand it right right I'm [TS]

  and then I realized like to the ear of a [TS]

  person who didn't come up knowing that [TS]

  those were different universes they [TS]

  sound great together and at time it's [TS]

  something we've talked about this so [TS]

  much better stay CDC and def leppard in [TS]

  the am not lying stuff or any of that [TS]

  stuff even looking at mr. do it all [TS]

  sounds so much rougher at the time and [TS]

  now with with time you got these are pop [TS]

  song yeah there's a problem but i was i [TS]

  I was in a i was in a shot the other day [TS]

  and they were playing what could only be [TS]

  called like dance music mix dance music [TS]

  mix jam and every tune had like Smith's [TS]

  but they were completely they were [TS]

  completely agnostic about a like era so [TS]

  so they were playing like lift freak and [TS]

  then right into some kind of nineties [TS]

  British a house music and right into [TS]

  some very contemporary DJ based jams and [TS]

  then back to now Rogers and it it just [TS]

  was a seamless mix the only unifying [TS]

  characteristic was that it had this like [TS]

  disco dance beat right and I realized oh [TS]

  sure if if I were 20 that would that's [TS]

  what I would be listening for and not [TS]

  you know and would I wouldn't [TS]

  necessarily care that one of these [TS]

  things was the pioneer of that and one [TS]

  of them was a was later iteration one of [TS]

  them is a modern iteration it's all just [TS]

  as onra something how many people could [TS]

  identify whether a given Bing Crosby [TS]

  songs from the twenties thirties forties [TS]

  or fifties 22 lot of people's ears [TS]

  I bet sounds virtually identical me [TS]

  fifties maybe a little bit different [TS]

  yeah you know hearing hearing like an [TS]

  old-timey song that sounds low fidelity [TS]

  in that case but but here that's I think [TS]

  that's partly a kind [TS]

  sequence of what I'm just gonna get this [TS]

  satellite radio and the demographics I [TS]

  don't know how this works but I'm [TS]

  guessing exactly like give me the kind [TS]

  of music people fold clothes to it the [TS]

  gap or topic or whatever uh-huh [TS]

  give me you know i want some chill Jam [TS]

  jams [TS]

  it's like all right well let's put on [TS]

  some chill jams [TS]

  alright well what's the chill Jam uh you [TS]

  know tubular bells sure that's chill [TS]

  that's pretty chill Jam shielded else [TS]

  you know music for airports uh the the [TS]

  you know talk talk's the color of spring [TS]

  that's a chill chill jams on that and [TS]

  pretty soon you're into like well what [TS]

  about this latest a this latest track [TS]

  from like Ibiza around I'm sorry maybe [TS]

  that he betta and pretty soon you gotta [TS]

  children mix and it's also like a [TS]

  pandora thing I think a lot of places do [TS]

  like a pandora thing where you can make [TS]

  a station i discovered it's a pretty [TS]

  dark art I don't use pandora as much as [TS]

  I used to but I discovered it's a real [TS]

  dark art to pick the right band to base [TS]

  your station on [TS]

  okay i'm gonna like my station but [TS]

  reasonable what would place on the long [TS]

  winter station [TS]

  oh you know a lot of don't yell at me [TS]

  music haha right like what's the what's [TS]

  the one thing that came up on a long [TS]

  winter stationed we were like what I [TS]

  don't know it i have to go look it up [TS]

  but i think it was a lot of like men [TS]

  with gentleman with beards kind of music [TS]

  you know you know the kind [TS]

  yeah the hog butcher music but on but [TS]

  you know for example like I really like [TS]

  old old country music and and and but [TS]

  the thing is if you go in this is really [TS]

  boring if you go in and make a station [TS]

  based on Hank Williams you end up with [TS]

  all kinds of nonsense i don't know why [TS]

  but if you go to based on Hank Williams [TS]

  all you get lots songs about regret [TS]

  wife-beating but now you get a lot you [TS]

  can include you get a lot of [TS]

  contemporary stuff but if you go in and [TS]

  make one based on Hanks know I've been [TS]

  everywhere man guy like you get all of [TS]

  this amazing stuff that's much more [TS]

  contemporary to his time like you might [TS]

  get some old Conway Twitty and stuff [TS]

  like that but it's mostly pre cosmic for [TS]

  the college country politan or whatever [TS]

  it's got a pre mid sixties music and it [TS]

  seems much more cohesive what's funny is [TS]

  I don't [TS]

  still do this but it used to be i think [TS]

  it was on pandora is on one of those [TS]

  services you can go in and it you could [TS]

  flip a card in your iOS app and it will [TS]

  show you why it picked that for you [TS]

  oh never seen this no i don't use any of [TS]

  these programs I i had like a course i [TS]

  had a guided by voices station and [TS]

  because you know you we thought you [TS]

  liked this song because it includes [TS]

  major chorus versus a fast be distorted [TS]

  guitars and lyrics about you know [TS]

  doesn't such beer or whatever really but [TS]

  they've got a reason they can actually [TS]

  when they choose to pull back the [TS]

  curtain they can actually show you how [TS]

  they calculated that this would be [TS]

  something you'd like em [TS]

  have you ever really studied the cover [TS]

  of the Scorpions record animal magnetism [TS]

  that the chewing gum in the limousine [TS]

  no that's that's the that's the one both [TS]

  the Lord the dog dog yeah it really has [TS]

  to have inspired the spinal tap smell [TS]

  the glove smell the glove it really it's [TS]

  like so it's haven't thought about in [TS]

  years i'm up oh my god i don't like this [TS]

  in years [TS]

  oh right like yeah yeah [TS]

  fast forward fast forward 40 years [TS]

  that's like that doesn't really stand up [TS]

  lets them off with the chicken just for [TS]

  my own purposes what's the word that you [TS]

  can get them in the limo [TS]

  that's that's a scorpion woman right [TS]

  that you know might be there so so where [TS]

  is he on his right here in the eyes [TS]

  yeah I love dr i love drive is a guy it [TS]

  go search for love dr it's a guy in a [TS]

  three-piece suit and a woman with her [TS]

  dress pulled aside and it's like he's [TS]

  got his hand into chewing gum by [TS]

  touching her boob [TS]

  oh the chewing gum on the boob look at [TS]

  that we should have time an animal [TS]

  magnetism know there's something very [TS]

  special going on here a lot of lot of a [TS]

  lot of good James you know this corpse [TS]

  like a lot of the best metal bands right [TS]

  they they they made the live record and [TS]

  that's a lie i have to have to say to [TS]

  all of our listeners that have not [TS]

  listened to the Scorpions the worldwide [TS]

  live album is a great introduction Jenna [TS]

  just as Judas Priest unleashed in the [TS]

  east [TS]

  live at Budokan is the great [TS]

  introduction to judas priest because [TS]

  these are live records in name only [TS]

  there was just gonna say i wasn't gonna [TS]

  look over to like kiss alive those are [TS]

  those are three like the tent pole and [TS]

  how you love kiss three temple albums [TS]

  that were really live albums not live at [TS]

  all but they said but if there's crowd [TS]

  noise and it makes you feel really epic [TS]

  it makes you feel like you're on stage [TS]

  with the band and the goat and the the [TS]

  person that you love the most is there [TS]

  in the in the room and you are you're [TS]

  playing your metal solo and they're [TS]

  looking at you and saying is never [TS]

  should have left you would try to change [TS]

  the things that killed our love dr. [TS]

  community pride has been a walk so [TS]

  strong that I can't get through [TS]

  is this really the hand now wow ok so [TS]

  its weapons animal magnetism [TS]

  I think this is probably a hypnosis [TS]

  hypnosis cover [TS]

  oh ok what else is happening is a German [TS]

  it's the German and designers that they [TS]

  did the peter gabriel records like all [TS]

  the whack-a-doodle photography based I [TS]

  think they did maybe wish you were here [TS]

  maybe but anyway a lot of them the [TS]

  whack-a-doodle photography based weird [TS]

  album covers of the seventies were done [TS]

  by this the this couple guys in Germany [TS]

  I think you know screaming gasps but [TS]

  anyway so we got what we have your half [TS]

  of the money we describe this there's a [TS]

  beach is that we see that the primary [TS]

  thing that we see is the back side of a [TS]

  man in looks like tough skins walking on [TS]

  a beach drinking beer with his hand in [TS]

  his pocket [TS]

  I would call those are those lee jeans I [TS]

  don't recognize the mark i would say [TS]

  they were there [TS]

  yes um I don't think they're tough skins [TS]

  maybe they are but they're but what's [TS]

  interesting is they're brown colored [TS]

  jeans and that's that seems very ahead [TS]

  that seems a little French to me they do [TS]

  you mean I can see a brown gene yeah [TS]

  certainly German or French there there [TS]

  maybe they're like it's there's almost a [TS]

  run lola run field to those jeans [TS]

  he's drinking a beer yeah he's got a [TS]

  hand [TS]

  he's got one is left hand in his back [TS]

  pocket it appears to be sunset even [TS]

  though he has the brightness of 1120 am [TS]

  shining on his ass right yeah he does [TS]

  there is some unused there's some [TS]

  strange like where did that [TS]

  where's that light coming from light [TS]

  well i will probably features that [TS]

  feature this is the cover art first [TS]

  episode there's Doberman Pinscher who [TS]

  and then getting its ass the doberman [TS]

  pincher is staring at his ass a like [TS]

  inexplicably but then I kneeling in a [TS]

  kind of i would people I wouldn't [TS]

  describe it necessarily as a submission [TS]

  putting submissive posture because it's [TS]

  a posture [TS]

  it's a submissive posture but she has a [TS]

  she has a a look that could be described [TS]

  as defiant right or there's there's a [TS]

  little bit of this little defiance [TS]

  interface but their general for shameful [TS]

  curiosity [TS]

  there's a blonde woman in high waisted [TS]

  jeans with the with a like a [TS]

  handkerchief blouse tucked in and she is [TS]

  kneeling looking up at him and it with [TS]

  it with the look that I would describe [TS]

  as not admiring but certainly waiting [TS]

  for the next wed waiting for a signal [TS]

  let's let's call them waiting forcing [TS]

  you to think that this would you get a [TS]

  different way [TS]

  yeah i mean if it was just her weird but [TS]

  the fact that the dogs and turn adobe [TS]

  staring at this guy [TS]

  well she's looking up at him and the [TS]

  Dobermans just looking straight at his [TS]

  pants that's animal management and and [TS]

  so I guess my question is and this was [TS]

  so this was the question i had when i [TS]

  was when i was 11 or or 12 is his fly [TS]

  undone or not [TS]

  alright she's not looking at his fly [TS]

  area but maybe the dog is maybe the dog [TS]

  is looking at is at his unzipped fly [TS]

  she seems to just like studiously [TS]

  avoiding it right she's making eye [TS]

  contact up here right right right she's [TS]

  looking she's looking at the she's [TS]

  looking at his meat beard yeah and not [TS]

  at his underwear area but the dog [TS]

  definitely is looking at his underwear [TS]

  area [TS]

  I've reached a point in life where so [TS]

  much I you know I call it sky like the [TS]

  dad engineering stage of life we mostly [TS]

  think about how something that made how [TS]

  much it cost and how it got me [TS]

  at all haha i look at this and I'm like [TS]

  this is what this was probably mercury [TS]

  it was it was a major label that they [TS]

  were on and you know there were meetings [TS]

  where somebody set aside three to five [TS]

  other designs and said this is the one [TS]

  we should go with I'm yeah yeah well i'm [TS]

  pretty sure that I'm pretty sure it's a [TS]

  it this is the inspiration for smell the [TS]

  glove and also i bet you there was [TS]

  somebody in the room that was like come [TS]

  on [TS]

  no this is terrible but you know it was [TS]

  the seventies there were a lot worse [TS]

  like how do you feel about the album [TS]

  cover for those that Eric Clapton [TS]

  supergroup group that had the oh yeah [TS]

  with the girl [TS]

  traffic traffic will know it was no [TS]

  traffic it was on there is derek and the [TS]

  dominos with Layla don't want that the [TS]

  prepubescent girl on the cover right [TS]

  yeah that's what you mean [TS]

  yeah yeah but it was traffic huh was a [TS]

  traffic i want to say it's traffic i'll [TS]

  find out this it's important [TS]

  afterward just who was at the other day [TS]

  that said I love listening to john and [TS]

  Merlin look at the internet one of the [TS]

  great podcast of all time [TS]

  what happened on in Berlin looking at [TS]

  the internet i'm not you know what I [TS]

  just stop looking at the internet i'm [TS]

  not even gonna look at it anymore i [TS]

  don't even care i see the last thing I [TS]

  fight if I can't tell you the name of [TS]

  Eric Clapton's dumb super group that had [TS]

  the girl on the cover [TS]

  then I don't deserve to talk about stuff [TS]

  I'm just gonna sit here and talk about [TS]

  how these gummy sold shoes that I'm [TS]

  wearing seem to pick up hair everywhere [TS]

  I get that with mine too and I wonder [TS]

  where is all this hair I like his hair [TS]

  just on the ground everywhere I go [TS]

  hasn't always been there is what really [TS]

  noticing this now is the earth carpeted [TS]

  with hair in a way that I you have to [TS]

  work on Isolde choose to to fully [TS]

  comprehend conditions we are yet we have [TS]

  an area rug in one room that we all like [TS]

  pretty well but it sheds pubes [TS]

  it's a the the way the fibers work so so [TS]

  like pretty much all the time in our [TS]

  house there's stuff floating around the [TS]

  kind of looks like a hair [TS]

  oh yeah right but it's not quite a hair [TS]

  it's more fiber m25 fibers hair like [TS]

  thing also what this is the thing what's [TS]

  going to happen that's going to be the [TS]

  hair that can fix you [TS]

  this episode of Roderick on the line is [TS]

  brought to you by our very good pals at [TS]

  Squarespace you know Squarespace they [TS]

  are the all-in-one platform that makes [TS]

  it fast and easy to create your own [TS]

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  through live chat and email now here's [TS]

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  you can start your free trial with no [TS]

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  here's a tip for you I thought [TS]

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  please make sure to use the very special [TS]

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  it also shows your support for rock on [TS]

  the line so thank you very much to [TS]

  squarespace further continued support of [TS]

  Roderick on the line [TS]

  Squarespace build it beautiful right [TS]

  you're gonna they're gonna pull that out [TS]

  there like that this is it is this has a [TS]

  very distinctive signature and it was [TS]

  found to definitely mission man we had [TS]

  no problem whatsoever together in know [TS]

  what I would just have to describe it as [TS]

  a multitude of individual curly black [TS]

  hair up I'm just gonna bring a couple [TS]

  pounds and that you peruse at your [TS]

  southern lawyer is so much better than [TS]

  Bob Odenkirk southern lawyer [TS]

  come on the time stealing it from but [TS]

  yours is better you can sell it and [TS]

  improve it you really think it's i'm [TS]

  also i'm bringing in a lot of Foghorn [TS]

  Leghorn but just I mean just enough like [TS]

  there's there's a there's some Matlock [TS]

  in it just you take it to the place [TS]

  where where Bob is trying you know Bob's [TS]

  Bob southern lawyer is [TS]

  is great in part because it's so bad [TS]

  it's like Peter Dinklage's British [TS]

  accent haha that's interesting you say [TS]

  that we talked about him a little bit [TS]

  once before I think but I i agree i part [TS]

  of what some of the stuff with his that [TS]

  makes me laugh the most is when he [TS]

  dances poorly sings poorly doesn't bad [TS]

  accents of like a horrible German accent [TS]

  or when he just he just yells [TS]

  inappropriately in a way that sounds [TS]

  ridiculous it's always funny to me [TS]

  yeah there's no you never have it you [TS]

  never know fully like how much Bob [TS]

  Odenkirk is conscious of the fact that [TS]

  he is he is not quite achieving what he [TS]

  imagines he's a cheap you know that's [TS]

  what I love people who come out of you [TS]

  know improv and sketch comedy is like [TS]

  there's so much of like you got where [TS]

  you are because you through so much shit [TS]

  a wall there and like you figured out [TS]

  what was funny sure but then you also [TS]

  learn to just ride it out if it wasn't [TS]

  funny and find a way to make it funny [TS]

  yeah right and that's exactly what [TS]

  happens on well on their sketch show you [TS]

  know they're read they're doing a new [TS]

  bob and david i know i saw some photos [TS]

  of the very elderly cast know i hope it [TS]

  will be good you know he's been so busy [TS]

  he did tim and eric he does the does the [TS]

  this all show and what you watchin that [TS]

  we watching the better call saul yeah I [TS]

  still I still am watching it [TS]

  um you know the pace is so different [TS]

  that's what i hear ya and it's very it's [TS]

  enjoyable but like that the the [TS]

  challenge for me was always one bob was [TS]

  on the screen my history with him as a [TS]

  as a fan always took me out of breaking [TS]

  bad a little bit like trying to really [TS]

  have Bob Odenkirk be a serious character [TS]

  and not because all right now that I [TS]

  just go hey look it's bob odenkirk yeah [TS]

  and-and-and like there were times when [TS]

  he played when he played the role of [TS]

  someone who is genuinely scared that i [TS]

  felt that i was i was absorbed into into [TS]

  the seen her but there were also i mean [TS]

  a lot of the lot of the campus of his [TS]

  character was just right in line with [TS]

  the camp [TS]

  miss a bob odenkirk enough that I was I [TS]

  was I was I knew I was watching a guy i [TS]

  already knew you had such a good greasy [TS]

  character [TS]

  well now so now I'd better call saul [TS]

  like with him as the center i can't i [TS]

  can't decide where I am I can't decide [TS]

  like eclipse [TS]

  I'm not far enough into it i guess to [TS]

  know where I stand [TS]

  which brings us to our next update [TS]

  segment which is you must be very busy [TS]

  right now I'm going to let me say i [TS]

  occupy it seems like you must be very [TS]

  occupied i'm going to a lot of task [TS]

  forces because had his task force these [TS]

  tasks force i'm going to a lot of tasks [TS]

  for sigh yeah I am I am busy and you [TS]

  know why but that but there is still a [TS]

  very there's there's still a complete [TS]

  the the major component of what i'm [TS]

  doing is still formulating thinking [TS]

  about stuff you know like the the [TS]

  running around and and and attending [TS]

  pie-eating contests and stuff like that [TS]

  hasn't that hasn't kicked into high gear [TS]

  yet because i still am trying to tackle [TS]

  the big issues in a way and and and and [TS]

  like put forward up a real program and [TS]

  that is really satisfying challenging [TS]

  work but it's not but eh but you know [TS]

  it's also like kind of fraud [TS]

  I feel like I'm i feel like i have a big [TS]

  paper due [TS]

  oh yeah and and ended like was strangely [TS]

  there's no clear deadline in some ways [TS]

  it was due three weeks ago and in some [TS]

  ways you know you can head it sort of [TS]

  one of those handed in when you want a [TS]

  butt and you're not sure how you're [TS]

  going to be graded you've got the [TS]

  world's most passive aggressive teacher [TS]

  welcome tell anyone it's gonna that's [TS]

  right that's right you tell me what [TS]

  grade do you think you know it's gonna [TS]

  be good very good [TS]

  so so i'm i'm i'm busy a [TS]

  but I'm also you know I'm also like [TS]

  crunching a lot of data because I really [TS]

  do believe that I don't want to but I'm [TS]

  not somebody that's just running for [TS]

  office as a as a piece of theater and [TS]

  the more I see other people running for [TS]

  office I realize like a lot of it is a [TS]

  lot of them are even the ones that are [TS]

  professionals you know it's it's it's [TS]

  all pieces seem some it's cynical to [TS]

  point this out but it seems like there [TS]

  could potentially be an advantage to [TS]

  doing that the opposite of what you're [TS]

  doing something very different which is [TS]

  going in with your placard already you [TS]

  know filled out in permanent marker and [TS]

  on the wooden stick and you're carrying [TS]

  around you know i mean it seems like [TS]

  there could be a benefit to you of [TS]

  having a position however well or not [TS]

  reasoned from the very beginning you [TS]

  come out of the chute with this like [TS]

  specifics that may have no relationship [TS]

  to anything it's actually going on so I [TS]

  would applaud you for staying open to [TS]

  figure out what it is you're going to [TS]

  say I think it's a good thing [TS]

  yeah it is it's a good thing but it but [TS]

  it goes it goes against expectations [TS]

  everybody in the everybody that it that [TS]

  has been doing this for a long time [TS]

  everyone that's kind of site because the [TS]

  only people that know that there's even [TS]

  a seattle city council election coming [TS]

  there's only 500 people in all of [TS]

  Seattle that even know it's happening [TS]

  right because who follows who follows [TS]

  local elections six to nine months out [TS]

  what else cranky didn't say that i did [TS]

  and so so once the initial announcement [TS]

  kind of went around and everybody was [TS]

  like wow that's cool people immediately [TS]

  want desperately to forget about it for [TS]

  several months and and they're feeling [TS]

  about it is like well i'll look at that [TS]

  again when it's closer to the election [TS]

  so the only people that are really [TS]

  invested in it and I said to stay at [TS]

  this stage are people better that [TS]

  considering either their profession or [TS]

  there or there you know application and [TS]

  so I'm in a lot of conversations with [TS]

  people who talk to a lot of candidates [TS]

  and they all have this expectation of [TS]

  like well what's your one issue what's [TS]

  the thing they got you mad that made you [TS]

  want to run for office and I keep saying [TS]

  I think that the foot I think the basic [TS]

  premise that the only people that run [TS]

  for office are people who got mad about [TS]

  one issue is what a horrible framing [TS]

  device but that's the thing that I i [TS]

  feel i feel like that's a flawed premise [TS]

  and they look at me with a kind of look [TS]

  that is like either you can hear the [TS]

  gears turning and they're like okay so [TS]

  you're the you're the intellectual and [TS]

  I'm like well I'm just somebody who [TS]

  believes in democracy and I feel like if [TS]

  your city council is always populated by [TS]

  people who got mad at the dog catcher [TS]

  and so they had then they ran for dog [TS]

  catcher and then they were the angry dog [TS]

  catcher who was mad at City Hall about [TS]

  about the dog catching and then they get [TS]

  elected to City Hall then you have been [TS]

  you have a city council is populated by [TS]

  by people that are mad and they don't [TS]

  have a very broad sense of how things [TS]

  work but they they were able to they [TS]

  were able to yell about the one thing [TS]

  that they're mad about and get several [TS]

  thousand people to say like yeah that is [TS]

  people who agreed that was the thing [TS]

  that he mad about and then all of a [TS]

  sudden you know that's it that's who we [TS]

  sent to public office right the people [TS]

  that are like I don't believe that this [TS]

  that the schools should be teaching sex [TS]

  education and that's why I'm running for [TS]

  local representative well and it makes [TS]

  me think nothing about comic books but [TS]

  it makes me think a little bit like you [TS]

  know we've already got a Batman there's [TS]

  already one guy that had a bad [TS]

  experience with crime and decided to [TS]

  become a crime fighter i would not want [TS]

  every person serving in the police [TS]

  department to think that there Batman [TS]

  you don't mean like there should be [TS]

  something beyond and like revenge which [TS]

  is what you're describing what you're [TS]

  describing in some ways is having a chip [TS]

  on your shoulder it isn't just that like [TS]

  oh my kid didn't get health care [TS]

  coverage or something [TS]

  you're talking about something where [TS]

  like basically i think what you're [TS]

  describing is someone who has decided to [TS]

  turn a personal grudge into a career [TS]

  well and then at some point along the [TS]

  way a person sidles up to them and they [TS]

  say hey you know this thing about dog [TS]

  catchers that you're so mad about [TS]

  here's how dog catchers actually get [TS]

  elected and it's not anything [TS]

  like you're saying right and then that [TS]

  person has a choice either recant and [TS]

  learn about things or cynically smile [TS]

  and say that's cool [TS]

  yelling about dog catchers is what got [TS]

  me elected and so now that i know better [TS]

  i'm still going to yell about dog [TS]

  catchers because that still resonates [TS]

  with people and I think that's what [TS]

  happens more often than not it's why you [TS]

  get these its way to get politicians who [TS]

  are like alright well just between us we [TS]

  know how things work but I'm gonna walk [TS]

  out there on the big stage and start [TS]

  talking about a talking in these terms [TS]

  that I know animates an audience and [TS]

  that's infuriating and it has to be like [TS]

  it's a certain amount of misdirection [TS]

  I'm not lying in this direction to bring [TS]

  it around to that point that you know [TS]

  test well for example well in and and at [TS]

  a certain point everybody wants a [TS]

  solution [TS]

  everybody wants to hear solutions and [TS]

  nobody wants to hear [TS]

  well solutions are complicated and every [TS]

  time you apply every time you pass a new [TS]

  law that that you hope solve this [TS]

  problem [TS]

  it creates for new potential problems [TS]

  right it's just like you can't if you if [TS]

  you look at the history if you look at [TS]

  our history and you think like well [TS]

  let's talk about some laws that solve [TS]

  some problems when you can see quite a [TS]

  few that have but you can also see tons [TS]

  and tons of laws that like prohibition [TS]

  solve the problem created 50 new [TS]

  problems right and there are lesser [TS]

  examples but lesser only because they [TS]

  are less ridiculous but they created [TS]

  problem upon problem so I'm I'm learning [TS]

  that too i'm going to meetings where [TS]

  people are pounding on desks and saying [TS]

  we have a housing crisis and we do have [TS]

  a housing crisis and then they say and [TS]

  here's the solution and I go wow that [TS]

  was easy up [TS]

  whoa i'm close the file on that one um [TS]

  that's really interesting because the [TS]

  housing crisis is is a you know is a [TS]

  multi-tenant rolled animal and that [TS]

  doesn't make it 10 here's the other [TS]

  thing [TS]

  then there's a there's a separate part [TS]

  of the political class that understands [TS]

  those problems are multi ten-year-old [TS]

  animals and they are the like the Rye [TS]

  incremental lists who say well there are [TS]

  no if there are no easy solutions and so [TS]

  we just have to like double down on [TS]

  unimaginative small-scale incremental [TS]

  little-little process-based revisions to [TS]

  current policy so like a professional [TS]

  politicians approach exactly and so you [TS]

  get either demagogues or you get a you [TS]

  get people that are like fully vested in [TS]

  the process and don't have they don't [TS]

  believe that imagination can work and [TS]

  somewhere between those two places we [TS]

  were were in this strange world where no [TS]

  progress really happens but we have a [TS]

  lot of people in public office that are [TS]

  talking about we need to support Israel [TS]

  because that's what Jesus wants our why [TS]

  do you know like there are there are a [TS]

  thousand thousand examples even on the [TS]

  liberal side and so I you know I like I [TS]

  feel like stepping into that arena and [TS]

  being unwilling to speak exclusively in [TS]

  bullet points but also being unwilling [TS]

  to get chastised over and over for [TS]

  having to having to adventurous a idea [TS]

  kit for you know like i have started to [TS]

  seriously talk about gondolas here to [TS]

  people who know about that that's [TS]

  awesome [TS]

  and there are a lot of transit people [TS]

  who are really really smart and a lot of [TS]

  them are like haha gondolas it's a [TS]

  really great idea we have done some [TS]

  studies on them but the problem is that [TS]

  you could never get it's the voters to [TS]

  go along with it with a big dream [TS]

  project like that and my reply to that [TS]

  is like imagine the people sitting in [TS]

  the room the first time someone on [TS]

  failed a drawing of the space needle [TS]

  that they intended to build and said [TS]

  here's the here's a tower we want to [TS]

  build and people look at it and go what [TS]

  for what is it it's a tower [TS]

  what good is it it's good for going up [TS]

  in it looks really expensive [TS]

  oh it will be why would we build this [TS]

  because it's cool [TS]

  uh I mean can you picture the scene i'm [TS]

  thinking about exactly what you're [TS]

  describing which is that it [TS]

  it's like we can't even have this [TS]

  conversation because that's not a [TS]

  building [TS]

  yeah right but sort of any we're saying [TS]

  like what you're proposing [TS]

  I mean it's like eating a plate of [TS]

  mashed potatoes and calling it a college [TS]

  and yet they built the space needle [TS]

  right and and what when I think about [TS]

  that you know you think about the [TS]

  interstate highway system in the United [TS]

  States the original name of the [TS]

  interstate highway system was something [TS]

  like the interstate roads and defense [TS]

  escape routes highway system you know [TS]

  like a big part of of the justification [TS]

  for building the interstates was that it [TS]

  would enable us to move troops around [TS]

  faster in case America was invaded by [TS]

  the Russians as a second reason they [TS]

  made the internet really and and also if [TS]

  we had an well if there was a little bit [TS]

  of a warning from the Civil Defence [TS]

  horns we could get in our 57 Chevys and [TS]

  drive out of the city and escape the [TS]

  nuclear nuclear attack that was coming [TS]

  right like that was part of how we sold [TS]

  what ended up being a 400 billion dollar [TS]

  nationwide project like oh you'll be [TS]

  able to get out of the town to escape [TS]

  the bombs and also we can move troops [TS]

  around and also it'll be great on [TS]

  Saturday afternoons you can get out to [TS]

  the country huh [TS]

  that night and nothing that like this [TS]

  would become the backbone of how we [TS]

  built the economy with trucking or or [TS]

  how it opened up you know like he is [TS]

  first like practical travel around the [TS]

  United States by middle-class people i [TS]

  mean think about that think about what [TS]

  is there anyone in America today [TS]

  listening to this program that will [TS]

  spend some part of today on an [TS]

  interstate highway and and that's not [TS]

  what it's for her and to build those [TS]

  things we tore down tens of thousands of [TS]

  houses like destroyed entire [TS]

  neighborhoods and so when people are [TS]

  like well you know there's no way we can [TS]

  muster the collective will to to start [TS]

  moving away from a fossil fuel based [TS]

  economy for instance it's like are you [TS]

  kidding me [TS]

  it's happening it's happening anyway and [TS]

  so the question is how do you get ahead [TS]

  of it you know how do you do it [TS]

  correctly [TS]

  instead of doing it accidentally or or [TS]

  by happenstance and in seattle it's the [TS]

  same thing I mean yeah [TS]

  gondolas would gondolas sound like a [TS]

  ridiculous idea right they sound like a [TS]

  joke idea that a day that the weird rock [TS]

  candidate came up it comes out that way [TS]

  and shut that Seattle is is a city built [TS]

  on seven hills right we're basically an [TS]

  alpine resort in summer and we keep [TS]

  talking about bike lanes we keep talking [TS]

  about all these methods of moving people [TS]

  around and in in that conversation [TS]

  there's never any acknowledgement that [TS]

  that everywhere you would want to go [TS]

  involves going up a huge fucking Hill [TS]

  and so it's like we need to get more [TS]

  bikes [TS]

  well okay but the only people that can [TS]

  ride bikes in seattle are like super [TS]

  athletes and if you if you go down to [TS]

  Portland Oregon which is largely a flat [TS]

  City you see people riding their bikes [TS]

  and they are in there you know they're [TS]

  like dressed nicely they are peddling [TS]

  slowly they have a little basket with [TS]

  some bread and maybe a dog in it and [TS]

  they're peddling on there nice flat wide [TS]

  streets to go from one flat place to the [TS]

  next and in seattle if you are downtown [TS]

  and want to go to Capitol Hill which as [TS]

  the crow flies is [TS]

  quarter of a mile over you basically [TS]

  have to be dressed like your writing the [TS]

  Tour de France and you know you're not [TS]

  gonna you're not gonna get on your bike [TS]

  with your Sudan right up to Capitol Hill [TS]

  for lunch and ride back down you would [TS]

  be you would be drenched in sweat and [TS]

  you haven't mentioned the weather let [TS]

  alone the rain so I do believe that we [TS]

  should have bikes everywhere but if [TS]

  there were a network of gone to lowes [TS]

  you can put your bike in the gondola [TS]

  take the gondola up to the top of the [TS]

  hill ride your bike around up there [TS]

  ride your bike downhill which is fun [TS]

  everybody likes that and then at night [TS]

  when it's time to go home put your bike [TS]

  on the gondola back up to the top of the [TS]

  hill [TS]

  it's not crazy it's it just sounded it [TS]

  in a way it sounds too fun to be real [TS]

  right it sounds too fun little it sounds [TS]

  whimsical it sounds whimsical until you [TS]

  picture like oh let's imagine the city [TS]

  and fifty years and we've got like trams [TS]

  running up in a funicular up this street [TS]

  and it doesn't have to be a fancy [TS]

  funicular it's a funicular the hop on [TS]

  the throw your bike on it it takes you [TS]

  up the steep hill it's just [TS]

  infrastructure its infrastructure that [TS]

  that actually is aware that it that [TS]

  reflects the fact that this is a really [TS]

  hilly town but you but so I'm talking to [TS]

  professional people and I'm saying [TS]

  listen this sounds like a job sounds [TS]

  like a joke idea from the weird rock [TS]

  candidate but listen I'm serious about [TS]

  this [TS]

  I think it's a good idea and and you can [TS]

  just you watch them try [TS]

  I mean when it's their job in a way but [TS]

  on the other hand like they struggle to [TS]

  find reasons why it's a why it they [TS]

  never are trying to find reasons why [TS]

  it's a bad idea they're always trying to [TS]

  find reasons why it can never happen [TS]

  when you must you must to some people [TS]

  let's be honest you the weird right [TS]

  candidate you must sound like a flat [TS]

  earth person or like historical [TS]

  revisionists or something [TS]

  well in the sense that to some people [TS]

  you know you're gonna have like the I [TS]

  can't even conversations [TS]

  we're just gonna be like how do i I mean [TS]

  why are you so are you actually saying [TS]

  this seriously I mean should we are [TS]

  where Dracula fans are right Fang should [TS]

  we should we all like you know get face [TS]

  tattoos anything else like that's it's [TS]

  so outside the pale of what people think [TS]

  of as a conventional approach to such a [TS]

  boring and giant problem right right [TS]

  well and and and and what I say to them [TS]

  is 100 years ago in 1915 there were [TS]

  still horse carts horse-drawn carts all [TS]

  over the streets of New York City and [TS]

  seattle and san francisco and i'm sure [TS]

  at that time there were all kinds of [TS]

  people in power and just the [TS]

  conventional wisdom was well there will [TS]

  always be horses in the city [TS]

  there have always been horses in the [TS]

  city before meeting to scale up around [TS]

  horses sure the motor car is coming but [TS]

  how I mean how do you take the horse [TS]

  away from the small independent farmer [TS]

  but I be that's going to be [TS]

  unnecessarily disruptive to our existing [TS]

  infrastructure because what we have now [TS]

  works the horses are finally replace [TS]

  them right it isn't that part of it is [TS]

  like you get so stuck in this idea what [TS]

  kind of problem we're trying to solve [TS]

  that you don't even open up the door to [TS]

  going [TS]

  look at--look at Chicago and Chicago [TS]

  revolutionized around the idea of not [TS]

  having literal tons of horse shit they [TS]

  had to throw a river every day [TS]

  it changed the entire sanitation system [TS]

  yeah well and imagine the last person in [TS]

  seattle to build a barn downtown to feed [TS]

  and care for horses during the day right [TS]

  there was a last person who is like i'm [TS]

  investing in a horse care products [TS]

  candidates and had to listen to big barn [TS]

  right all right big stables like listen [TS]

  stables are part of our economy horses [TS]

  how you know how is a poor man going to [TS]

  make it into town he's gonna ride a [TS]

  horse and that's always going to be true [TS]

  there was like my family's made money [TS]

  from owning this particular wooden [TS]

  structure for 65 right well and so 10 [TS]

  years later 1925 I mean not a lot of [TS]

  horses on the streets any [TS]

  more it is it has completely switched [TS]

  right to change it i utterly changed i [TS]

  mean yet a different kind of problem but [TS]

  like I don't know I'm so enjoy enough to [TS]

  be able to fucking malcolm gladwell but [TS]

  like talk about improving quality of [TS]

  life and conditions [TS]

  I mean just the stories you hear about [TS]

  what it was like to live in chicago new [TS]

  york london let me there was literally [TS]

  horse shit everywhere [TS]

  well and so our contemporary equivalent [TS]

  to that is people driving their own cars [TS]

  right right people are bad at driving [TS]

  you're not here if you like in your [TS]

  platform you and I have been talking [TS]

  about this since time began this podcast [TS]

  driving is one of these these strange [TS]

  things that seems simple enough that [TS]

  everybody believes that they are really [TS]

  good at it if they haven't died yet they [TS]

  must be great at it and yet it is very [TS]

  difficult to do well and and almost no [TS]

  one doesn't well so we've been living in [TS]

  an era for a long time where everybody [TS]

  drives their own vehicle and it results [TS]

  in tens of thousands of deaths [TS]

  incredible waste and inefficiency total [TS]

  gridlock and it is going away it's going [TS]

  away in our lifetimes and when driving [TS]

  your own car around goes away it's going [TS]

  to change everything [TS]

  it's going to change the conversation [TS]

  about about every aspect of the city and [TS]

  what's cool about it is that it doesn't [TS]

  mean that cars are going away just [TS]

  human-piloted cars are going away and [TS]

  without human pilots cars [TS]

  I mean can be cars can be constructed [TS]

  without all this weight of safety [TS]

  devices because they're all going to be [TS]

  controlled by GPS they'll never ever [TS]

  touch one another again they can be [TS]

  small and light and quick [TS]

  small and light and quick [TS]

  and battery-powered and quiet and they [TS]

  can move smoothly around the city and [TS]

  all of a sudden you realize a gridlock [TS]

  isn't because there are too many people [TS]

  have seen the graphics for what it would [TS]

  look like if all if it was all [TS]

  self-driving cars at an intersection [TS]

  you seem like what how insane in a good [TS]

  way it could be where they just go [TS]

  zooming panning don't let you don't need [TS]

  signs right you just you just need a [TS]

  little bit of the kind of basic probably [TS]

  chunking that your phone could do at [TS]

  this point just direct people into the [TS]

  direct the cars into the right place and [TS]

  so so you could quadruple the capacity [TS]

  of the roads and everybody moves like 10 [TS]

  times faster like there is the the roads [TS]

  aren't the problem the problem is the [TS]

  people pilots right right and and that's [TS]

  coming really soon like and and if we're [TS]

  not you know nobody else running for the [TS]

  seattle city council is even heard of [TS]

  the internet right let alone [TS]

  self-driving cars right there still how [TS]

  how many orders of magnitude exaggerated [TS]

  is that it's not you're saying it's not [TS]

  a focus [TS]

  it's not it's not a focus there is still [TS]

  you know at the lettuce at the local [TS]

  level of government there's still a lot [TS]

  of suspicions about technology right [TS]

  technology is still regarded as [TS]

  primarily a surveillance tool like [TS]

  cities are using it to to collect data [TS]

  and nobody wants in a privacy is is an [TS]

  issue at the city level in a big way and [TS]

  don't you know then that this whole [TS]

  question of like the cops were body cams [TS]

  well wait a minute does that mean when a [TS]

  cop comes into my house and talk to me [TS]

  in the middle of the night about my [TS]

  crying child that that video is going to [TS]

  write it uploaded to the internet [TS]

  tomorrow you know there there's a lot of [TS]

  confusion about that angle [TS]

  yeah but there's not a lot of [TS]

  understanding that the internet right [TS]

  now like we've been looking at the [TS]

  internet since its inception as a kind [TS]

  of like won't be great one day when this [TS]

  is like better than [TS]

  little TV and very few people even still [TS]

  are looking at the Internet in terms of [TS]

  no no the internet is going to be it's [TS]

  about to explode in terms of usefulness [TS]

  as we use it to connect everything to [TS]

  everything and when that happens the [TS]

  usefulness of everything will go up [TS]

  because will be because we will talk to [TS]

  be talking about integrated systems [TS]

  rather than these siloed inefficient at [TS]

  like work duplicating garbage piles and [TS]

  you know at 1.i when I picture Matt [TS]

  Howie on his bike looking at is Apple [TS]

  watch trying to get his coffee maker to [TS]

  work and he's like I downloaded for [TS]

  coffee maker apps to my new iphone and [TS]

  it's not syncing up with my you know [TS]

  with my electric razor but he's like [TS]

  he's at the bleeding edge of other thing [TS]

  that is going to happen at a municipal [TS]

  scale right right because we're also [TS]

  write on on the cusp of I mean it's [TS]

  happening right solar energy finally is [TS]

  penciling out I'll man the graphs on [TS]

  this stuff are nuts and even contain i [TS]

  saw at you place the same graph i did [TS]

  about amount that can be generated [TS]

  versus cost per unit generated ya and [TS]

  the last I guess 10 or 15 years it's [TS]

  completely everything I thought I mean [TS]

  to me solar energy number 1 i'm not [TS]

  growing up right Jimmy Carter well huh [TS]

  number one soul energy is probably one [TS]

  of the greatest no-brainers we could [TS]

  ever have [TS]

  but very important number two it is [TS]

  prohibitively expensive to do even just [TS]

  like heat or water right when i was in [TS]

  college you could you could get a water [TS]

  heater but it was very costly and now [TS]

  today i'll try to find the graph we [TS]

  probably know I mean it's completely [TS]

  bananas which you can do now 44 less [TS]

  than twenty thousand dollars [TS]

  well and and you know so we're so we're [TS]

  across the threshold ever uh where solar [TS]

  energy is it is as cheap as as other [TS]

  forms [TS]

  or were they come I mean comparable I [TS]

  mean given there's no longer smell in [TS]

  here shine million things to say i wanna [TS]

  interrupt but there's so much about like [TS]

  what you trade off to get there and how [TS]

  much you're willing just to get away [TS]

  from your dumb idea of in order to do [TS]

  the thing I need to do we replace a [TS]

  horse with a car everybody's a car with [TS]

  a rocket stop thinking about it that way [TS]

  start thinking about in terms of what [TS]

  we're actually trying to accomplish stop [TS]

  thinking of the internet is facebook and [TS]

  start thinking about it as electricity [TS]

  and suddenly everything starts to change [TS]

  and and I mean that will shut up after [TS]

  this but like I i really think there's a [TS]

  one of our biggest problems is something [TS]

  I mention you're facing is everybody [TS]

  likes to either think that somebody's [TS]

  being practical or ideological that [TS]

  either have an axe to grind or there or [TS]

  there just honestly trying to do the [TS]

  right thing and you tell so much by in [TS]

  that case somebody like well that's [TS]

  great ideologically will just replace [TS]

  everything with solar and then we'll [TS]

  just charge ten times as much that'll be [TS]

  great it's like now stop thinking at [TS]

  these extreme ends of the spectrum and [TS]

  and look at how for the future [TS]

  quote-unquote actually works which is it [TS]

  never turns out the way anybody expected [TS]

  because we can only see it through the [TS]

  lens looking backwards right open your [TS]

  mind up to what could happen in 25 years [TS]

  rather than obsessing what didn't happen [TS]

  in the last 60 years when I keep saying [TS]

  that to people like the what we never do [TS]

  what we always do is evolve our cities [TS]

  in this game of whack-a-mole write a [TS]

  guide builds a thing we're like well [TS]

  that's a shitty thing we've got to stop [TS]

  the next guy from doing that and so we [TS]

  pass a law about this guy who built the [TS]

  thing and by the time the law gets past [TS]

  that was eight years ago and no one is [TS]

  ever going to build that thing again [TS]

  they're building something new that [TS]

  shitty in a different way and and what I [TS]

  keep saying to people is it's not that [TS]

  hard to go 20 years in the future [TS]

  imagine what we want the city to look [TS]

  like and then reverse engineer it right [TS]

  we we do we do have this ability and it [TS]

  doesn't have to be [TS]

  we don't have to build everything out of [TS]

  Legos just screen you know just [TS]

  rummaging in the Box looking for one [TS]

  more green tile we can look ahead and [TS]

  say we are like the city is going to be [TS]

  we are redesigning the grid right what [TS]

  is the grid mean we're we're shipping [TS]

  Seattle has really cheap electricity [TS]

  because we ship in this electricity from [TS]

  there [TS]

  from our dams up in the mountains this [TS]

  the 20 years ago we thought of as the [TS]

  salmon killing dams up there they've [TS]

  given us cheap power for years but [TS]

  another technology that's coming online [TS]

  is the the molten-salt battery [TS]

  technology which it would enable us at a [TS]

  municipal scale to put giant batteries [TS]

  that can soak up all that power soak up [TS]

  all the solar power that we're [TS]

  generating on the roofs of every home in [TS]

  the city store it efficiently and then [TS]

  redistribute that power at night when [TS]

  the Sun has gone down and everybody [TS]

  wants to turn their jacuzzi tubs on with [TS]

  the storage what used to be a very [TS]

  important part of the high-cost storage [TS]

  is the problem right i mean because if [TS]

  you are if you're if you're generating [TS]

  power in the middle of the day when the [TS]

  Sun and Sun is up that's not necessarily [TS]

  when you want the power maybe even [TS]

  though it's really hot you want air [TS]

  conditioning on but you know that's the [TS]

  middle of the day when you're probably [TS]

  not even at home and here and your beer [TS]

  solar power is your solar sensors are [TS]

  generating all this power but if you [TS]

  can't store it it just it's just it's [TS]

  you have to burn it off right it's just [TS]

  garlic wasted sunshine but with these [TS]

  giant batteries of the superheated [TS]

  sodium um that that cities can build you [TS]

  know they can they can build them added [TS]

  a giant scale and create a kind of like [TS]

  small grid we're all day long were [TS]

  soaking up the Sun we're sending that [TS]

  power to our local our local sink and [TS]

  then at night it redistributes and the [TS]

  and the internet and those [TS]

  interconnected technologies are what are [TS]

  going to enable us to like understand [TS]

  how much we contributed to the pile how [TS]

  much we're taking back you know it's it [TS]

  is it's an incredibly exciting time but [TS]

  when you talk when you when you're for [TS]

  instance if you were running for City [TS]

  Council of your city and you talk to [TS]

  people about it you're not allowed to be [TS]

  excited about that stuff because it [TS]

  still sounds so pie-in-the-sky [TS]

  you're the crazy rock candidate who's [TS]

  talking about molten-salt batteries 10 [TS]

  what about a space station that has [TS]

  waterfalls and its moments all batteries [TS]

  are they we like there will be so the [TS]

  faroe islands have already started [TS]

  developing like yeah like municipal [TS]

  scale battery the complexes but there [TS]

  will be an American city that decides [TS]

  yes we are the pilot program for this [TS]

  this is where this is where we're going [TS]

  let's build let's start building these [TS]

  talk about new jobs right and that [TS]

  should be Seattle who but we can't talk [TS]

  about it unless enough people believe [TS]

  that the future is a real thing that is [TS]

  happening you know that these [TS]

  technologies are that we are really on [TS]

  the cusp of a huge across-the-board step [TS]

  forward and all these things are going [TS]

  to be integrated right so we don't have [TS]

  to just we don't have to build more [TS]

  stables downtown we need to start [TS]

  thinking about the interconnectivity of [TS]

  everything and you know I don't I swear [TS]

  to you like a lot of the people on the [TS]

  seattle City Councilor like the internet [TS]

  my daughter sends me pictures sometimes [TS]

  of my granddaughter but I can't open [TS]

  them are they a PDF or something I'm not [TS]

  anyway that's something that's very [TS]

  surprising [TS]

  it shouldn't be because again the people [TS]

  that typically run for local office are [TS]

  coming out of traditions that we have [TS]

  you know there's no there there's one of [TS]

  the criteria for being president the [TS]

  united states not yet to be a citizen [TS]

  that's right gotta be 35 correct [TS]

  families know you can have felonies you [TS]

  cannot have ever been in open rebellion [TS]

  against the United States also no [TS]

  treason treason busters no treason no [TS]

  you cannot have declared allegiance [TS]

  already know perfectly but other than [TS]

  that that is about [TS]

  oh you have to have lived in the United [TS]

  States you have to be a city born in [TS]

  America but you also have to have lived [TS]

  in America for 15 years [TS]

  so you can't be born [TS]

  American then go live in France your [TS]

  life and then run for the US President [TS]

  you have to their is a like a somewhat [TS]

  of a residency requirement but other [TS]

  than that there's no education [TS]

  requirement [TS]

  there's no experience requirements and [TS]

  that's true for a reason because the I [TS]

  think personally that the founders [TS]

  understood that the more that you make [TS]

  politics a profession [TS]

  the more you risk [TS]

  well that it in invariably leads to an [TS]

  old darky we're the only people that can [TS]

  practice politics are the practiced [TS]

  politicians and yet that is our instinct [TS]

  every time write like a lot of people [TS]

  have come to me and said well why are [TS]

  you running for City Council why don't [TS]

  you run for neighborhood council what's [TS]

  your real game and I'm like well I'm [TS]

  running for City Council because that's [TS]

  the that is the job that I that I want [TS]

  and there isn't but that but that but [TS]

  but but the conventional wisdom within [TS]

  this group of 500 people that know that [TS]

  there is even a city council is that the [TS]

  way you get this job is that you start [TS]

  on your college democrats and you work [TS]

  some campaigns and you you know you [TS]

  spend some time as an activist [TS]

  and-and-and day and there really is this [TS]

  kind of farm team mentality because [TS]

  those are the people who pursue you know [TS]

  those are the people who pursue elective [TS]

  office so often and typically they are [TS]

  not reading wired but I say right they [TS]

  are not they don't have a podcast i [TS]

  don't know of any other candidates that [TS]

  have a podcast and that and I believe [TS]

  that we should be ruled by podcasters as [TS]

  a nation [TS]

  deer deer deer right imagine imagine uh [TS]

  the McElroy brothers in the US Senate I [TS]

  don't think any of that [TS]

  the thing about the tall hat in in the [TS]

  in the morning Scorsese movie haha never [TS]

  have Lincoln what's-his-name a uh yeah [TS]

  it's a it's Abraham Lincoln gangs of [TS]

  Capitol Hill Abraham a mcelroy lincoln [TS]

  lincoln lincoln now the McElroy's have a [TS]

  podcast there are some nice guys [TS]

  mcelroy's of course all the great shows [TS]

  right the McElroy's they live up over [TS]

  the over yonder sure the bill something [TS]

  I'm you one of their daughters comes [TS]

  over here and there is one of the [TS]

  Roderick boys can sleep in my barn but [TS]

  whatever you do and yeah I am I don't [TS]

  know my gosh i find this i do find this [TS]

  interesting as much as I find politics [TS]

  personally tedious i think that there's [TS]

  there's a lot about what you're trying [TS]

  to do that is extremely interesting and [TS]

  that the way that has overflowed with [TS]

  something else that I barely understand [TS]

  is management and the whole idea of like [TS]

  the role that managers or leaders if you [TS]

  like have inside of a company and I [TS]

  don't know it always seems that always [TS]

  feels to me like people are trying to [TS]

  lavish managers with you know all these [TS]

  different ways to develop and educate [TS]

  and all these sorts of things and then [TS]

  the real problem is all these worker [TS]

  bees over here just to just don't get [TS]

  how it goes [TS]

  mm and I i can and this is not you know [TS]

  it's not a perfect one to one [TS]

  relationship but it seems like somebody [TS]

  in your position has to really want that [TS]

  particular job and to specifically has [TS]

  to really want to do a certain kind of [TS]

  work that requires a strange balance [TS]

  doing something with my two hands here [TS]

  let's go like on the one hand it seems [TS]

  to me that a lot of your job is pretty [TS]

  like down in the weeds like [TS]

  implementation like you're gonna have to [TS]

  be involved in conversations about stuff [TS]

  that's going to happen in the next three [TS]

  to six 1215 months right there stuff [TS]

  you're doing that it is it isn't just [TS]

  you know a philosophy party their stuff [TS]

  you're gonna have to do every day that [TS]

  involves extent to which the city [TS]

  continues to run efficiently right but [TS]

  on the other hand you have to make all [TS]

  of those decisions through a certain [TS]

  kind of lens it seems to me like on the [TS]

  one hand it be your liking somebody [TS]

  who's great at implementing it is a good [TS]

  communicator but a also has the lens [TS]

  that you're looking for [TS]

  so even though you're not walking into [TS]

  this situation situation in a space suit [TS]

  with a Raygun i'm saying i'm john from [TS]

  the future like you have the state of [TS]

  mind to go i'm not i'm not scared of the [TS]

  idea of smart innovation in fact i'm [TS]

  going to welcome it and make a part of [TS]

  my my Creed to like keep an eye out for [TS]

  the stuff we don't need to just be [TS]

  thinking about this week because that [TS]

  will always be there will always have [TS]

  the urgency of this week but like to be [TS]

  thinking about how will I know the right [TS]

  pitch when it comes along like being [TS]

  able to keep up on the kind of stuff [TS]

  that other people think is real [TS]

  tutti-frutti can help you make great [TS]

  decisions about like you say let's be [TS]

  specific not building more stables in [TS]

  your analogy [TS]

  yeah everybody's gonna always want more [TS]

  stables because there's a there's a [TS]

  stable industry and people use tables [TS]

  etc but you know it's like The Henry [TS]

  Ford you know fast people what they [TS]

  wanted they would set a faster horse [TS]

  right [TS]

  same idea like i don't know maybe I'm [TS]

  wrong about that but it seems like i was [TS]

  talking to talking to a friend of mine [TS]

  the other day about your candidacy and [TS]

  saying like you know it seems even if [TS]

  you were to be say a senator a senator [TS]

  or a congressperson but especially like [TS]

  a senator you have enough of a staff of [TS]

  people that you have to have a staff of [TS]

  people so that you can on some level [TS]

  stay up in the clouds a little bit with [TS]

  what you do you don't want to have to [TS]

  make sure that every document got signed [TS]

  every meeting got made [TS]

  but in your case you're not gonna have [TS]

  more than one two or three people for [TS]

  staff them i mean you're gonna have to [TS]

  be heavily involved in a lot of those [TS]

  implementation details so you can't you [TS]

  can't afford to be all up in the trees [TS]

  but it does mean that I'm not going [TS]

  anywhere with this I just think it's [TS]

  really valuable to have somebody there [TS]

  who even just because you're not walking [TS]

  and carrying a sign doesn't mean you [TS]

  don't have your own idea of a vision and [TS]

  part of that vision is not specifically [TS]

  implement this thing but to say we need [TS]

  to change the way we look at and think [TS]

  about options [TS]

  yeah and that means making we're going [TS]

  to do that you're gonna have to all do [TS]

  something very weird and very courageous [TS]

  which is to admit that the future is [TS]

  happening whether we like it or not [TS]

  write the future is not going to present [TS]

  itself as an app within in app purchases [TS]

  it's going to come along as something [TS]

  that seems extremely strange and and and [TS]

  really out there at first but in order [TS]

  to make the right infrastructure [TS]

  decisions we have to be thinking beyond [TS]

  the end of our nose and realize what [TS]

  what future do we want to have here and [TS]

  how does that affect what we implement [TS]

  yeah that's [TS]

  and I and we have lots of love lots of [TS]

  role models right where we are looking [TS]

  at San Francisco your own town and [TS]

  saying wow this wave of of prosperity [TS]

  crashed on san francisco and san [TS]

  Francisco has a culture a traditional [TS]

  culture of like hey man hey man you're [TS]

  blocking my Sun man and so that you know [TS]

  San Francisco is very lazy fair about [TS]

  stuff like kale culturally be culturally [TS]

  yeah but they're not lazy fair about a [TS]

  lot of stuff they're not but what has [TS]

  happened need a permit to take a shit in [TS]

  this town you can't well boy a lot of [TS]

  people are getting permits then haha [TS]

  continue my bones going to tell you that [TS]

  we don't need to have an operation for [TS]

  some of the company and want to get a [TS]

  lashing to defecate how does what a [TS]

  point-to-point the candidate to the [TS]

  Tenderloin district that's what I'm [TS]

  gonna poison account of the of the of [TS]

  the bolus it's gonna be like a [TS]

  prescription pad that somebody ripped [TS]

  off of a doctor's desk I need bread you [TS]

  want to use it for the next 30 days and [TS]

  shit [TS]

  it's not funny on any level because it's [TS]

  not funny because it is real and gross [TS]

  and it's also not funny because nobody [TS]

  shooting outside wants to be doing that [TS]

  mostly exactly right fucking awful and [TS]

  it but it's emblematic and you cannot [TS]

  get away from it [TS]

  I just more of like good luck trying to [TS]

  get your movie made in San Francisco [TS]

  like there's a reason Vancouver's [TS]

  thriving and nobody picks movies movies [TS]

  here anymore and Seattle has you know [TS]

  Seattle has experienced a lot of a lot [TS]

  of those same problems and the thing is [TS]

  weird we are just you know we are where [TS]

  San Francisco was some number of years [TS]

  ago it's hard to know exactly how many [TS]

  years behind we are but the money is [TS]

  pouring in the social services are not [TS]

  keeping pace the rent is going crazy [TS]

  the middle class is getting pushed out [TS]

  there is no you know we're we're [TS]

  becoming a city where everybody is [TS]

  either making two hundred thousand [TS]

  dollars or twenty thousand dollars and [TS]

  there is a Seattle [TS]

  alternative there is a Seattle way of of [TS]

  experiencing this growth that is [TS]

  different from anywhere else we have to [TS]

  believe that that's true and we are able [TS]

  to impose our values on what's happening [TS]

  in our own city but it does require some [TS]

  it requires foot spa it requires will to [TS]

  say hey wait [TS]

  we all know that the free market is just [TS]

  a thought technology that we've all been [TS]

  duped into believing in there enough air [TS]

  quotes with the phrase free market you [TS]

  know it works if you believe in it it [TS]

  doesn't work if you don't it is just an [TS]

  order it benefits you [TS]

  yeah it's just another idea yeah it's [TS]

  not legally binding like none of these [TS]

  none of these thought technologies that [TS]

  when we have enshrined in law are [TS]

  anymore legally binding than the laws [TS]

  that we have written to enshrine them [TS]

  and so we are capable of writing new [TS]

  laws we are capable of envisioning a new [TS]

  form of city and yet it's never as [TS]

  simple as I mean there's a there's a [TS]

  kind of movement right now to try a new [TS]

  version of rent control which is much [TS]

  closer to I think it's more accurately [TS]

  described as controlling the rent [TS]

  changing changing the abilities of [TS]

  landlords to rent according to what they [TS]

  think the market is and putting [TS]

  restrictions on like well rent is a [TS]

  different category of service now [TS]

  oh it's a it's a really a different [TS]

  approach completely different approach I [TS]

  mean I'm sorry that sounds really [TS]

  insipid but instead of saying here's a [TS]

  lot about how much you can raise right [TS]

  it's taking it from a different angle [TS]

  taken from a different angle like rent [TS]

  is the thing and it's going to be tied [TS]

  to the consumer price index so rents [TS]

  cannot rise any faster that the consumer [TS]

  price index [TS]

  how's that for a new idea right and then [TS]

  it's like oh that's a pretty novel idea [TS]

  yeah you said as much in your i think on [TS]

  your webpage and probably in a speech or [TS]

  something he said something pretty smart [TS]

  which is that your you know gentle about [TS]

  it but it sounds like you're basically [TS]

  saying what rent control does is ensure [TS]

  that anybody lucky enough to have gotten [TS]

  here a few years ago has cheap rent [TS]

  while everybody else just swing [TS]

  yeah old-fashioned rent control just [TS]

  creates a new class of people that have [TS]

  cheap apartments and those people are [TS]

  not they don't have cheap apartments [TS]

  because they are virtuous and they don't [TS]

  even have have cheap apartments because [TS]

  they are needy they just have them [TS]

  because they were there first but this [TS]

  new vision of rent control where it's [TS]

  just like listen rent is not a thing [TS]

  like gold and diamonds where the market [TS]

  determines that gold is suddenly [TS]

  suddenly were seventeen hundred dollars [TS]

  an ounce when a year-and-a-half ago was [TS]

  worth four hundred dollars an ounce and [TS]

  we all go along with that because we [TS]

  believe it we believe that the market [TS]

  and the then these factors scarcity etc [TS]

  etc like that these are somehow real [TS]

  forces like the wind but we can say no [TS]

  the it as people's wages rise so too can [TS]

  rinse rise but you know in a way that is [TS]

  can measure it [TS]

  the problem with that is that it it's [TS]

  this this is this old game of like what [TS]

  does that apply to commercial rinse to [TS]

  write because hard-pressed to the [TS]

  enforcement right i mean in some ways [TS]

  like the innumerable loopholes people [TS]

  will find like the way the ls Act has [TS]

  worked in San Francisco has just been an [TS]

  epochal well the number one way that [TS]

  people will get around as they'll say [TS]

  great i'm turning my apartment building [TS]

  into condominiums right [TS]

  go fuck yourself while you back to a [TS]

  couple now I mean it's actually not a [TS]

  better word for that but it is actually [TS]

  really describe how much life is like [TS]

  the sims like this this one little thing [TS]

  that you think you're fixing here could [TS]

  just be making seven small problem [TS]

  somewhere else you can't even figure out [TS]

  its butterfly farts everywhere [TS]

  well thank you for saving me a few [TS]

  minutes this afternoon [TS]

  yes yes John you're saying butterfly [TS]

  parts right a butterfly farts in china [TS]

  and all of a sudden you're paying 4,500 [TS]

  studio apartment so much closer to the [TS]

  country lawyer than you realize [TS]

  I know works around the rolling cocoon [TS]

  feels bad about the center of their [TS]

  flowers butterfly all on the road and [TS]

  he's flying through Chinese fortune up a [TS]

  breeze [TS]

  now that is one of the most rural [TS]

  economies alongside in you that you [TS]

  could possible have you're going to see [TS]

  climate change you're going to see your [TS]

  particular it's going to be real super [TS]

  confusing for everybody all the [TS]

  butterfly run he's on the hook is [TS]

  innovation that's finding a little [TS]

  faster sometimes you know and the thing [TS]

  is seattle in the the way the people the [TS]

  way the wind blows across the best [TS]

  forget hit Seattle first that's going to [TS]

  get on license plates telling you when [TS]

  i'm on the City Council this is how the [TS]

  city council meetings are gonna go horse [TS]

  before cart butterfly farm when get a [TS]

  fucking finicky there's a guy in this [TS]

  town building the last butterfly stable [TS]

  and I want to meet that man [TS]

  uh-huh parts people so here's a man who [TS]

  feeds ducks all he has left is his barn [TS]

  oh my god are you saying you're holding [TS]

  up really well though [TS]

  well yeah but uh but but i did you know [TS]

  i mean the the though the number one [TS]

  thing I'm scared about is the UH is that [TS]

  it that there's ugliness to this process [TS]

  I don't believe that ugliness is [TS]

  necessary i don't think it has any place [TS]

  in it and yet i know that it is their [TS]

  ugliness is there and and I'd and I'm [TS]

  I'm just not looking forward to the [TS]

  ugliness getting activated in amongst [TS]

  the the voters the media could be [TS]

  anywhere quickly another candidate could [TS]

  come from anywhere right [TS]

  yeah but be and the closer you get to I [TS]

  mean it sounds like you're already being [TS]

  taken maybe surprisingly seriously but [TS]

  as you are taking more and more [TS]

  seriously it may not may not be told [TS]

  there today but as you get closer to [TS]

  august and [TS]

  you become threats the wrong word as you [TS]

  become more viable candidate then you're [TS]

  going to be a bigger target right well I [TS]

  when I i sat down at two big tables one [TS]

  of them was with the sierra club and [TS]

  they interviewed me because they are [TS]

  trying to decide who they're going to [TS]

  endorse in my race the Sierra Club and i [TS]

  sat at a table and you know they're [TS]

  bored or whatever and we talked about [TS]

  things and you can develop some programs [TS]

  for them and then i sat at a table with [TS]

  the Seattle chamber of commerce and for [TS]

  the Seattle chamber of commerce meeting [TS]

  i put in the address of the saddle [TS]

  chamber of commerce and i put it into [TS]

  apple maps [TS]

  oh no I saw this which took me to a [TS]

  witch took me to the top of a windmill [TS]

  out on the beach somewhere and I was [TS]

  like please somebody draw that you know [TS]

  i'm in a little suit i got my briefcase [TS]

  and it's like this is not where the [TS]

  Seattle chamber commerce is so I'm late [TS]

  for the meeting i show up back at the at [TS]

  the meeting you know they wait for me I [TS]

  walk in for whatever reason that day I [TS]

  chose to wear a tweed suit so I'm in a [TS]

  tweed suit [TS]

  I'm half an hour late and I appear to be [TS]

  the guy who believes who doesn't know [TS]

  where downtown is and who legitimately [TS]

  thought that the Seattle chamber of [TS]

  commerce was in a windmill john robert [TS]

  he's the candidate is still learning so [TS]

  I'm like pot everyone sorry i'm late i [TS]

  really am sorry that i appear to be the [TS]

  exactly the kind of candidate that would [TS]

  not know how to find the Seattle chamber [TS]

  of commerce but I'm here now let's talk [TS]

  and we talk and they're asking me [TS]

  questions and you know and i can go [TS]

  around the table and introduce [TS]

  themselves and each one of those like [TS]

  hello I'm the legal counsel for the big [TS]

  major developer I'm the you know I'm the [TS]

  property development officer for the [TS]

  local sports franchises snidely whiplash [TS]

  Korea I'm the you know I am Scrooge [TS]

  McDuck's like all treasure back at [TS]

  consultant and so I'm sitting at the [TS]

  table and we're talking and I'm just [TS]

  like listen you know what [TS]

  funiculars and anybody and they're like [TS]

  particulars and they all lean forward [TS]

  and write down on their pad and at the [TS]

  end of the thing I was like listen [TS]

  there's no way that you guys are going [TS]

  to endorse me I understand that all i [TS]

  want to all i want you to understand is [TS]

  that when I do get elected I want you to [TS]

  feel like you can work with me and [TS]

  they're all like oh and and then I said [TS]

  a couple of more things about funiculars [TS]

  and zip lines and at one point I said [TS]

  you know here's the thing i never hear [TS]

  about why don't we just make one we just [TS]

  print more money we did not [TS]

  nobody laughs well just tell just look [TS]

  up and then look down and write on their [TS]

  pads mmm good you are ridiculous alright [TS]

  I see how this is going and then as i [TS]

  leave you know I'm like once again sorry [TS]

  that I was late [TS]

  uh I believe in uh I believe in small [TS]

  businesses and free enterprise [TS]

  god bless america I and I do hope that [TS]

  we will see each other again [TS]

  goodbye and I walk out and i'm in the [TS]

  lobby talking to the receptionist and I [TS]

  hear a huge laughs like the whole room [TS]

  starts laughing and I'm like are they [TS]

  laughing because one of them said we [TS]

  should absolutely endorse hit that guy [TS]

  and they all laughing an agreement or [TS]

  are they laughing because they are full [TS]

  of fear or are they laughing because [TS]

  someone said something funny a [TS]

  completely unrelated just to break the [TS]

  tension that i created in the room who [TS]

  knows i know that they're not they can't [TS]

  be laughing at me as an unserious [TS]

  candidate because I raised more money in [TS]

  a week than any city council candidate [TS]

  has ever raised in Seattle history so [TS]

  they know that that is real you know [TS]

  so who knows at the seattle city car the [TS]

  Seattle Chamber of Commerce is not going [TS]

  to pick me as their endorse endorser [TS]

  endorsee right but um [TS]

  but when i win the election i'm going to [TS]

  show back up there and I'm gonna say so [TS]

  funiculars haha the seven ish [TS]