Roderick on the Line

Ep. 146: "Science Farmer"

 

  this episode of Roderick on the wine is [TS]

  sponsored by cards against humanity this [TS]

  month they asked the double clicks to [TS]

  help me say hi to john reading this John [TS]

  what you've been eating two day [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  hello hey John beep-boop-beep-boop-beep [TS]

  art would you like to begin a [TS]

  conversation online [TS]

  how're my pops and buzzes hows about [TS]

  buzzing buzzing crackle and pop listen [TS]

  pop crackle crackle did you change [TS]

  something [TS]

  crackle bows bows mmm on athletics it [TS]

  turned it turned out that my that's [TS]

  right those are on it you know I used to [TS]

  have a college teacher that never tell [TS]

  you this now he he pronounced that word [TS]

  on amanha pay ya is that's a little kid [TS]

  because he had a ligature well he felt [TS]

  that he felt the Greek letter that is a [TS]

  and E squished together or I think it's [TS]

  is a date its Zoe and then finally it's [TS]

  a diphthong [TS]

  but yeah he he wanted it pronounced he [TS]

  felt that that was the correct [TS]

  pronunciation on a mono pay and he and [TS]

  he used that word all the time in the [TS]

  class i don't remember what the class [TS]

  was but now I cannot say it any other [TS]

  way it is it is not the artist anal of [TS]

  of 1990 onomatopoeia a I don't want to [TS]

  take you off your tech talk buzz crackle [TS]

  but but but i do idea want to talk about [TS]

  for announcing something or doing [TS]

  something a certain way correctly even [TS]

  when it sounds wrong I like the single [TS]

  back to that ok so what turns out turn [TS]

  all turns out all that buzzing and [TS]

  crackling was just in my voice only need [TS]

  to clear throat a little that was just I [TS]

  had a little bit of I had a little bit [TS]

  of AI don't 88 big bite [TS]

  oh yeah yeah roll off on the ground [TS]

  switch yeah exactly [TS]

  that was the problem I i was i was what [TS]

  I was doing was I was dumb I was 8 bit i [TS]

  was told you were doing eight bit like a [TS]

  new window will pop someone like the [TS]

  beginning of a lot of psyche songs we [TS]

  get the deliberate fucking in of the [TS]

  guitar cable Kingsley's where it's gone [TS]

  and i'm thrilled array well start [TS]

  getting those tips from people [TS]

  it was an anomaly i think it was a [TS]

  gravity anomaly [TS]

  if you uh if you know anything about [TS]

  gravity anomalies you know that they can [TS]

  be used to communicate across time by [TS]

  Matthew McConaughey is that right okay [TS]

  the flat circle [TS]

  mhm i was a flat circle this is exactly [TS]

  where he was a scientist is that correct [TS]

  I'm so mad I'm so mad I you know I was [TS]

  barely aware of interstellar as it was [TS]

  happening as it was when it was coming [TS]

  out and I remember there being some talk [TS]

  I think Neil deGrasse Tyson had some [TS]

  just a long string of tweets about the [TS]

  science and it but I was just ignoring [TS]

  it all [TS]

  yeah and then I was in a hotel room and [TS]

  and it was on the TV and i watched it [TS]

  and I was just I was just fist clenching [TS]

  Lee mad the entire time [TS]

  you know i'm not i'm not be and probably [TS]

  the fifth-best physicist that you know [TS]

  we're here [TS]

  I mean you know your take right well we [TS]

  might be the only physicist I now so I'm [TS]

  not in a position to say there are all I [TS]

  think there are a lot of people that you [TS]

  and I know who it turns out our [TS]

  physicists closet with is business [TS]

  yeah that we just don't know like i [TS]

  would i would say grant Balfour is [TS]

  probably pretty good physicist yeah you [TS]

  probably just John syracuse said grant [TS]

  Balfour we've got a physicist friends [TS]

  for sure i would say that they would say [TS]

  that they probably weren't physicists [TS]

  and technical the physicist that's right [TS]

  and i'm going to probably agree with [TS]

  them and i'm not saying about you know [TS]

  what I'm not the fifth-best I'm in the [TS]

  top five business right but you because [TS]

  I'm gravity anomaly that changes a lot [TS]

  that's right gravity anomalies can often [TS]

  take one that could take a group of [TS]

  physicists and andrey sort them and then [TS]

  do it again right it's called lensing [TS]

  lensing and that's just part of the [TS]

  parallax effect is that gets well it's [TS]

  closed it's closed you're on you're on [TS]

  to something to doppelganger effect [TS]

  that's what it sounds like the bridge [TS]

  sirens going by me and me [TS]

  dinner that's it that's a that's a whole [TS]

  different category the doppelganger [TS]

  effect huh [TS]

  and it's actually pronounced do to gain [TS]

  triple-triple Gungor there for longer [TS]

  than even nerd in a team movie devil [TS]

  gauger now there's a little guitar thing [TS]

  that happens when he comes in [TS]

  ok now its doppelganger but I don't want [TS]

  to off music Paulette expects [TS]

  yeah you want to actually do want to [TS]

  talk about physics but you should say [TS]

  that because I whatever that was over [TS]

  pronouncing i'm gonna skip that and now [TS]

  i'm going to willing suspension of [TS]

  disbelief which I wrote down because [TS]

  isn't it interesting it's super [TS]

  interesting to me like what I will [TS]

  willfully suspend my discipline [TS]

  disbelief about like I got the thing is [TS]

  here's my thesis and I'm not a physicist [TS]

  like you but I can as I sit here today I [TS]

  can't tell you what it is about a film [TS]

  or TV show or novel that makes me go [TS]

  sure right and otherwise you know em [TS]

  right it's really hard to say [TS]

  all i know is i know that John Woo [TS]

  movies are not realistic but i'm totally [TS]

  in [TS]

  I know a great movies are not realistic [TS]

  but i'm totally in [TS]

  how do you feel about it when people are [TS]

  are performing karate while standing on [TS]

  top of bamboo shoots totally talk just [TS]

  briefly once before I don't have a [TS]

  problem with it on because I think [TS]

  that's part of the the universe the [TS]

  Cinematic Universe you know it's just [TS]

  you know the biggest problem if I had to [TS]

  say one big thing and I don't have any [TS]

  specific examples this in mind I know [TS]

  this happens a lot and a lot of movies [TS]

  in particular the first act set up is a [TS]

  lot of world-building the others the [TS]

  first act as a lot of establishing the [TS]

  ironclad rules that will lead to much of [TS]

  the drama that unfolds over the next two [TS]

  hours in 30 minutes [TS]

  I really like the way you're saying this [TS]

  thank you and then stuff happens in the [TS]

  second act rite stuff happens [TS]

  virtually every rule ironclad rule that [TS]

  was established in the first third kind [TS]

  of gets thrown out the window without [TS]

  explanation and that's frustrating and I [TS]

  feel cheated and I feel duped [TS]

  well in this case in this in this movie [TS]

  the DRL ever Oh interstellar right in [TS]

  this interstellar movie the first act is [TS]

  the problematic act because the first [TS]

  act is both boring [TS]

  well it's boring and implausible but [TS]

  also dumb poorly thought out and it sets [TS]

  up the plot for the rest of the film [TS]

  like this the the stuff happens part of [TS]

  the movie where the spaceships are going [TS]

  and people are spinning around in space [TS]

  is very quiet [TS]

  mhm and and keira knightley or whoever [TS]

  the the female lead is not keira [TS]

  knightley it's a it's a some that's an [TS]

  unactivated actually actually an actress [TS]

  that I have danced with haha can't [TS]

  remember her name had a wedding if I was [TS]

  at a wedding she was there at three and [TS]

  i thought to myself I'm going to ask her [TS]

  to dance and then it was more of sorts [TS]

  of more of a group dance you know what I [TS]

  mean like it was sort of like government [TS]

  asked her to having a lot of Martin [TS]

  causal gonna they're gonna want to start [TS]

  out with that with a friendly group [TS]

  dance yeah so it was like five of us [TS]

  kind of group dancing and it turned out [TS]

  he just got back from best stone and [TS]

  you're going to really earn it [TS]

  that's right yeah you don't just grab [TS]

  somebody and kiss them in Times Square [TS]

  anymore you can have a group dance there [TS]

  was a group dancing with those and that [TS]

  i was actually that was the moment that [TS]

  I realized that even famous actors are [TS]

  first desbiens em right right this was [TS]

  that this was kind of a this was a [TS]

  moment for me because you have us give [TS]

  us a sense of famous actors that they [TS]

  are very move their only stars movie [TS]

  stars they're actually they're in a [TS]

  different category but of course there [TS]

  are not they started out as lesbians as [TS]

  high school thespians yeah and then they [TS]

  became college lesbians and then they [TS]

  became a movie stars but they are still [TS]

  in their heart says be anak and so we we [TS]

  were doing this this this group dance [TS]

  and there was so much does be anak hands [TS]

  and face and body work [TS]

  that by the way in real time people were [TS]

  out there jazz hand around it was really [TS]

  happening and there was just a lot of [TS]

  like a everybody's looking at us and I [TS]

  was already too old and grouchy to to [TS]

  really enjoy it i was enjoying it more [TS]

  from a standpoint of like I'm watching [TS]

  this but I walked away feeling like [TS]

  outright I bet you I bet you even [TS]

  Harrison Ford is like this right i mean [TS]

  when you get them like it when you get a [TS]

  better wedding you think so is by like [TS]

  wow I have never happened [TS]

  I don't know where is it is it i'm [TS]

  trying to get this right so there's a [TS]

  drama to it there's definitely an [TS]

  element of performance there dancing [TS]

  like people are watching [TS]

  yeah you remember you remember being in [TS]

  high school huh yeah and your vaguely [TS]

  you remember the people that were in [TS]

  theater and how they were there was a [TS]

  little bit in theater but I definitely [TS]

  know what you mean [TS]

  yeah and and that that that thing that [TS]

  thing and so yea even back then a lot of [TS]

  dancing in a big circle and then kind of [TS]

  suggesting a gesture that everybody [TS]

  could do together [TS]

  yep it's it's sort of like a goth conga [TS]

  line yeah yeah well yeah well yeah I [TS]

  mean anyway so suffice to say that I [TS]

  know this act or dress and I don't [TS]

  remember her name because i have a very [TS]

  hard time which is probably on the [TS]

  community show [TS]

  nope nope no I think she's a more famous [TS]

  actor than that [TS]

  wow she was into movies I you know what [TS]

  it'll get a little it'll come to you in [TS]

  any case she was there [TS]

  matthew mcconaughey was there neither [TS]

  one of them did I for a moment believe [TS]

  was a scientist but that didn't matter [TS]

  during the space part because who knows [TS]

  who they're going to put in space right [TS]

  yeah you know what I mean like it 50 [TS]

  years from now who knows who the [TS]

  astronauts are going to be like I didn't [TS]

  buy that ethan hawke could get into the [TS]

  spaceship with his bad eyes [TS]

  in the other speaking but you can I get [TS]

  what you're saying no I mean things can [TS]

  be kind of it used to be you had to be [TS]

  an engineer and a pilot and you have to [TS]

  be at NASA you know something that could [TS]

  be apt developers yeah that's right [TS]

  that's exactly right it could be elon [TS]

  musk with the with the leather but a [TS]

  biplane pilots helmet on the front of [TS]

  the spaceship that he designed to [TS]

  actually look like his own face spur you [TS]

  know shooting up into space the biggest [TS]

  penis of all [TS]

  yeah so I that part I didn't have a [TS]

  problem with but the part of the part [TS]

  that it was establishing like the that [TS]

  but it does feel free to spoil it for me [TS]

  know in Hathaway and half away you dance [TS]

  with Anne Hathaway in a group a small [TS]

  group five people dancing around at the [TS]

  time I was like you know I was [TS]

  entertaining the idea that maybe our [TS]

  eyes would lock across a crowded dance [TS]

  floor [TS]

  mhm but looking back at photograph of [TS]

  myself at the time i was missing a tooth [TS]

  and I did have like hair down to the [TS]

  middle of my back and just a difference [TS]

  with that video series on the YouTube of [TS]

  you [TS]

  the 13 songs with John yells yet some [TS]

  real long hair [TS]

  yeah really long hair it got even longer [TS]

  and i think at this wedding it was as [TS]

  long as it was going to get and so I can [TS]

  only imagine i mean i'm talking about [TS]

  and hathaways artistic lesbionic dancing [TS]

  i can only imagine what she was seeing [TS]

  looking back across the circle maybe [TS]

  that's why the group dance right [TS]

  safety in numbers little bit of that [TS]

  little bit of like huh [TS]

  this is interesting how did this guy get [TS]

  in here stay away from the biker um [TS]

  anyway I don't blame her [TS]

  and I've seen her in some movies where I [TS]

  thought she was great and she was [TS]

  actually a well no she wasn't very good [TS]

  in this movie but that's not the point [TS]

  the point is science as a [TS]

  as a narrative motivator right if you [TS]

  see if you go to a movie and you're like [TS]

  science is going to motivate this movie [TS]

  there is going to be somebody's going to [TS]

  use science to tell a story it's going [TS]

  to turn on science and I and a sense of [TS]

  sense watching the film i have looked it [TS]

  up and I've read all the talk about like [TS]

  all the science is really good in this [TS]

  movie they made sure that the science [TS]

  had any like call people in yeah yeah [TS]

  consultants and people's this there yeah [TS]

  that was that and so the science like [TS]

  the black hole that appears in the movie [TS]

  looks like a black hole is going to look [TS]

  if you ever seen a black holes [TS]

  apparently right and so I don't object [TS]

  to that [TS]

  ok but the but the part where the dad [TS]

  out of love for his daughter goes into [TS]

  the black hole to communicate with her [TS]

  by knocking books off of the shelf in [TS]

  her bedroom in the past was not decide [TS]

  what happened [TS]

  not a thing that arm i don't think that [TS]

  you i don't i'm not complaining about [TS]

  the science not going to work out a [TS]

  system where she know what to watch out [TS]

  for falling books this is the thing yeah [TS]

  she you know the movie starts she's in [TS]

  her bedroom books are falling off the [TS]

  shelves moon [TS]

  I wonder if that's gonna play into the [TS]

  family taking more more poltergeist that [TS]

  right i mean sure that anyone would [TS]

  unless your father was a science farmer [TS]

  let's see what this gentleman farmer who [TS]

  used to be a scientist is that what it [TS]

  is I'm saying jet pilot retired jet [TS]

  pilot science farmer and he says books [TS]

  for follow-up there's no such thing as [TS]

  ghosts does this is like the first hour [TS]

  of the movie where you're like wasn't [TS]

  supposed to be some space in this movie [TS]

  no no we're talking about the books [TS]

  falling off the shelves and some other [TS]

  stuff none of it how IC IC so the books [TS]

  falling off the shelf that he's trying [TS]

  to explain away or actually later on [TS]

  turns out caused by him all within this [TS]

  space forming future [TS]

  manipulating the past through a multiple [TS]

  universes scenarios for the [TS]

  controversial ending John there's no [TS]

  more controversial ending after this [TS]

  ending I i think if there was if there [TS]

  were people that had that we're creating [TS]

  a controversy about this film about some [TS]

  element in it i dismissed them with a [TS]

  with a with a Scott because the [TS]

  controversy about this film is that it [TS]

  is a garbage barge [TS]

  hi i know is divisive it's a good film [TS]

  is a garbage barge starring the ultimate [TS]

  like overt and tanned leather captain of [TS]

  garbage barge Matthew McConaughey and he [TS]

  recruited this poor keira knightley [TS]

  person I and Hathaway and have the way [TS]

  to a she play someone called brand [TS]

  yes she does some very she does a very [TS]

  bad acting on it and there are some [TS]

  other there some other actors in it that [TS]

  do fine fine acting jobs but the entire [TS]

  thing is a garbage barge and it's a 10 [TS]

  and I and I cannot help but compare it [TS]

  to them to the more recent film which [TS]

  used science to create a robot raccoon [TS]

  that had a smart mouth for and a been a [TS]

  big machine gun [TS]

  yeah shouldn't work and think everything [TS]

  in that movie I believed [TS]

  yep one hundred percent and loved and [TS]

  this garbage barge of a movie which was [TS]

  supposed to be smart and which multiple [TS]

  multiple film reviewers praised for its [TS]

  smartness people were for this is why a [TS]

  divisive because i haven't seen the film [TS]

  but I heard a lot of people were just [TS]

  coming out of the theater freaking out [TS]

  and talking about her life changed and [TS]

  other people were like to be watched the [TS]

  same movie [TS]

  mm-hmm you know I learned this i'll [TS]

  probably get this wrong i'm doing this [TS]

  from memory but I learned a couple [TS]

  distinctions in the last few years that [TS]

  I think are interesting and you probably [TS]

  know these but won't admit it you know [TS]

  like in John Rizzo forget science [TS]

  fiction and fantasy right now are you [TS]

  can I know I know I know the difference [TS]

  between modes okay okay that's a start [TS]

  and Lord of the Rings is fantasy fantasy [TS]

  well no here's the thing but in fantasy [TS]

  don't you have like there's like high [TS]

  fantasy and like low fantasy high [TS]

  fantasy is where it really it's like a [TS]

  whole different [TS]

  world like a different universe or [TS]

  something like that and forgive me [TS]

  everybody in the world is going to get [TS]

  mad at this but it is the distinction [TS]

  being measured high fantasy well but [TS]

  then also i dunno there's hard science [TS]

  fiction [TS]

  oh okay right so there's a kind of [TS]

  science fiction where every conceivable [TS]

  detail is sweated to be as accurate as [TS]

  possible but also even in a speculative [TS]

  fiction universe to really cater the [TS]

  sort of person who like you know ask the [TS]

  question of william shatner at the [TS]

  convention like that you know it isn't a [TS]

  distinction because there's some kind of [TS]

  science fiction where you got a fucking [TS]

  robot raccoon and nobody minds right and [TS]

  this is the end this is the thing I love [TS]

  hard science fiction and generally I [TS]

  find that it works best when it is like [TS]

  Blade Runner a plausible world where [TS]

  where you eat you have you've posited [TS]

  the future based on like one or two one [TS]

  or two minor changes and it is produced [TS]

  this future world righty meaner or it [TS]

  like you take a lot of elements that we [TS]

  all sort of except and know to be true [TS]

  and you introduce one fantastical [TS]

  science development [TS]

  okay and I can handle I can handle those [TS]

  even the ones that are like hard science [TS]

  except fantasy right like the like ones [TS]

  where time travel is possible or [TS]

  something like that where where they [TS]

  don't they don't take or what was the [TS]

  one where the guy was coming back into [TS]

  the yet they were people in the future [TS]

  we're sending people back in the past to [TS]

  get killed [TS]

  oh yeah the night inception but rooper [TS]

  looper right i mean at as if you sit and [TS]

  worry about time travel like don't talk [TS]

  about time traveling and they covered it [TS]

  right in the film and it's hilarious [TS]

  that moment right here just like okay [TS]

  except that and then you then you go [TS]

  along with the plot right and what what [TS]

  this movie did was that it tried to get [TS]

  the hard science right except they're [TS]

  there nobody had done any thinking about [TS]

  a about like the human element right [TS]

  they had they had they gone toward the [TS]

  hard science and they had forgotten [TS]

  different [TS]

  about people John they forgot about [TS]

  people they forgot to make the human [TS]

  motivation plausible-like although the [TS]

  whole of the whole emotional core of [TS]

  this film depends on the idea that a [TS]

  daughter of a father who is a who is a [TS]

  space farmer a Kappa science farmer gets [TS]

  an opportunity to go into space [TS]

  uh-huh and his ten-year-old daughter [TS]

  says had it don't leave and he says I [TS]

  must go into space [TS]

  I am a time-space farmer this is what [TS]

  science farmers do with science farmers [TS]

  do they go into space right so that's [TS]

  the that is the that is a thing from a [TS]

  from basically every novel every movie [TS]

  that the father says goodbye daughter i [TS]

  am called out to the I'm riding out into [TS]

  the West I am blasting off into space [TS]

  and i will i will be back or I will [TS]

  bring you and he's either saying it to [TS]

  his daughter or his wife or you know [TS]

  somebody but in this film the daughter [TS]

  is so betrayed by the fact that her [TS]

  father would blast off into space even [TS]

  though she is herself a science [TS]

  she's a science farmer herself she [TS]

  becomes a science farmer is that right [TS]

  it runs in the family to it's a family [TS]

  science farm right but despite being a [TS]

  science farmer she cannot ever forgive [TS]

  him for this decision to go into space [TS]

  nominally to save humanity and the whole [TS]

  film is it is all of all the drama in it [TS]

  is about the about the about Matthew [TS]

  McConaughey being primarily motivated to [TS]

  get back to earth to his daughter and [TS]

  she still even as an adult devastated [TS]

  obviously never been in love obviously [TS]

  never like falling off her bike [TS]

  the worst thing that ever happened to [TS]

  her and the only thing that ever [TS]

  happened her is that her father left and [TS]

  like she doesn't forgive him for it and [TS]

  he doesn't and he can't say like a man [TS]

  uh a space farmers got to do a space [TS]

  farmers gotta do like there's no it [TS]

  isn't a science phone to keep in touch [TS]

  so he's gotta throw books [TS]

  well this is the thing [TS]

  you know what happens is they get down [TS]

  close to the gravity of the black hole [TS]

  and time moves more slowly for him out [TS]

  here and I like this part this is this [TS]

  is interesting science right this is the [TS]

  part of the movie that I wanted to watch [TS]

  all day which is like an hour on this [TS]

  planet is seven years back home and so [TS]

  he's like women i can't spend you know [TS]

  like they got down on the planet there [TS]

  but an engine flooded or whatever like [TS]

  hurt however come on we gotta start the [TS]

  fucking ship [TS]

  I gotta get back that's another year [TS]

  that just went by Remy room and by the [TS]

  time they get out of the black hole [TS]

  uh everybody on earth is grown-up gosh [TS]

  and it's like that is one of the great [TS]

  that's a great idea right that's a great [TS]

  plot point that's a great thing and also [TS]

  the open the door to a lot of humanity [TS]

  and storytelling for stride rite for [TS]

  fantastic and the end the one you know [TS]

  and and what your mind wants to do is [TS]

  like they do you think can't get their [TS]

  motor started and by the time they do [TS]

  they come back out of the black hole [TS]

  gravity field and earth is 400 years in [TS]

  the future right that's what's [TS]

  interesting [TS]

  yeah that would be an interesting story [TS]

  but instead like they get off the planet [TS]

  and like his daughters grown-up and she [TS]

  spent the last 40 years like sucking her [TS]

  thumb while becoming a genius scientist [TS]

  but sucking her thumb because her dad [TS]

  didn't come back [TS]

  ok and it's like seriously dad's don't [TS]

  come back all the time [TS]

  dad's go out for a pack of cigarettes [TS]

  and don't come back like if every kid in [TS]

  the world whose dad didn't come back [TS]

  suck their thumb and became a genius [TS]

  physicist well we have a better space [TS]

  program but it sounds like the story [TS]

  needs her to feel that way in order for [TS]

  the and again i have not seen a movie [TS]

  but in order for the drama from the [TS]

  McConaughey guy to work rise to be that [TS]

  feeling from this is my objection this [TS]

  the movie needs her to behave in a way [TS]

  that is not not human right and needs [TS]

  him to behave like whatever whatever [TS]

  their bond is like people have those [TS]

  bonds but but anybody anybody with [TS]

  normal human feelings watches that and [TS]

  says you know what my dad I'm 10 years [TS]

  older than 12 years old I love science [TS]

  my dad is a space ship captain he's [TS]

  gonna go and I'm I'm gonna be sad but [TS]

  like [TS]

  we're all gonna we're gonna get on with [TS]

  our lives right that's the north that is [TS]

  what up any human would do that isn't [TS]

  like emotionally broken i'm confused I I [TS]

  thought it was the science of three off [TS]

  no I liked the science it was the [TS]

  relationships the people part well so so [TS]

  then so so this is so that this is the [TS]

  problem right [TS]

  he is in he has access somehow to up to [TS]

  some sort of crossroads place created by [TS]

  future humans for reasons that are not [TS]

  explained he is in a crossroads where he [TS]

  can go from he can go across multiple [TS]

  universes he can go across time I guess [TS]

  right [TS]

  he's in a season and he ends up in this [TS]

  black hole in her room sort of a lot [TS]

  2001 a Space Odyssey where you can go [TS]

  across time and he is using that [TS]

  incredible power not to kill Hitler not [TS]

  to go back to a time before he was born [TS]

  and give his parents a riddle right that [TS]

  only he can solve not not a not to do [TS]

  anything interesting her except to [TS]

  communicate to his daughter by knocking [TS]

  books off the shelves in the past two [TS]

  contradictory messages one because that [TS]

  because the because the gravity field [TS]

  this so boring the gravity the gravity [TS]

  field and the and all of that is how he [TS]

  and his daughter found the NASA people [TS]

  in the first place so he must have done [TS]

  that he must have signaled to her to go [TS]

  find the space people which is what [TS]

  produced the situation where he flew [TS]

  into space right so he sent that message [TS]

  and then spends a lot of time knocking [TS]

  books off the shelves in a coded order [TS]

  so that she receives the message stay [TS]

  and the message stay is meant to be [TS]

  communicated to him in the past through [TS]

  his daughter all telling him not to go [TS]

  typically turned it but if he didn't go [TS]

  none of the been mad at ya [TS]

  it's like the writing by doing what he [TS]

  actually stay [TS]

  no you didn't stay because that's [TS]

  idiotic if he had stayed then he [TS]

  wouldn't have been naughty right now I [TS]

  know we're gonna have a problem that's [TS]

  the killer problem but they didn't even [TS]

  address that killed Hitler we wouldn't [TS]

  know Hitler is today they didn't address [TS]

  the fact that in an infinite number of [TS]

  other possible multiple multiple verses [TS]

  he did stay right there [TS]

  they didn't address any of that they're [TS]

  using all of that interesting physics [TS]

  and crazy like you know Einstein me in [TS]

  like brain fuckery to tell the dumbest [TS]

  dumb story featuring two dummies that [TS]

  you don't care about in the first place [TS]

  like if you do care about their [TS]

  relationship if you do care about this [TS]

  father and daughter you are a dummy [TS]

  because they are such dummies and all of [TS]

  the physics becomes this like that it [TS]

  becomes like all this window dressing on [TS]

  a on a on a story on a pretty pedestrian [TS]

  on a pedestrian and sentimental story [TS]

  numbnuts sentimental story like if you [TS]

  took the science out of that movie and [TS]

  it was just like here's the story here [TS]

  the people that you're going to end up [TS]

  caring about others his father the [TS]

  daughter some other people and like do [TS]

  you care about their lives to care about [TS]

  whether they succeed in their quest for [TS]

  you care if they are reunited you care [TS]

  about any of that [TS]

  and the answer is no you couldn't [TS]

  possibly because I'll and ultimately [TS]

  this is this is I think the key then [TS]

  Hollywood this is the message that [TS]

  Hollywood needs to receive you cannot [TS]

  care about Matthew McConaughey can't you [TS]

  can watch him [TS]

  it can be interested in his call all I [TS]

  know you could be interested in him he [TS]

  can walk across the stage and you can be [TS]

  like uh-huh [TS]

  you think because you can't be trusted [TS]

  no because you cannot care about him [TS]

  think about this [TS]

  look at his face think about his role [TS]

  this is an hour into some hard science [TS]

  fiction think about it is it possible to [TS]

  actually care about Matthew McConaughey [TS]

  could you write a film where Matthew [TS]

  McConaughey was the actor playing any [TS]

  part i challenge you any part and you [TS]

  are watching him and looking into his [TS]

  space in his eyes and you care about [TS]

  what happens yeah the Dallas buyers club [TS]

  did you care about him I didn't finish [TS]

  it right there were people in that movie [TS]

  that you cared about it seemed like a [TS]

  good movie [TS]

  it was a very interesting movie and it [TS]

  was an act early experience where you [TS]

  watch these actors really really act the [TS]

  shit out of what they were doing [TS]

  I thought he was getting out of the [TS]

  first part which i watched I nothing [TS]

  against the the second two parts but he [TS]

  seemed to really inhabit the role [TS]

  yeah i really put him as a scrunchie [TS]

  squirrely drug I he absolutely did and a [TS]

  guy that you enjoyed watching but did [TS]

  not personally care about now and a good [TS]

  role for Matthew McConaughey fantastic [TS]

  role and then at the end what you care [TS]

  about is the tens the hundreds of [TS]

  thousands of people who are suffering [TS]

  from aids that this particular guy his [TS]

  actions I hit up me helping them right [TS]

  you cared about the people that starts [TS]

  out as barfly turns in gandhi turns into [TS]

  Gandhi right you can't you cared about [TS]

  the people but he you did not care about [TS]

  and i cannot i cannot think of a single [TS]

  and you know what my objection to [TS]

  Matthew McConaughey started in a [TS]

  science-fiction role which was to [TS]

  remember you know I dazed and confused [TS]

  no messy Matthew McConaughey was great [TS]

  and amazing views and in fact that maybe [TS]

  the one example where I actually kinda [TS]

  did [TS]

  now I didn't care about but I sure liked [TS]

  him now what movie [TS]

  matthew mcconaughey and I could have [TS]

  gone through life perfectly fine with [TS]

  each other right he's on one path I'm on [TS]

  another he's playing he's playing most [TS]

  of the roles that he plays and I am [TS]

  enjoying watching him but not caring [TS]

  about him but in that god damned Jodie [TS]

  Foster movie where she built a space [TS]

  machine based on a carl sagan is desert [TS]

  schools she doesn't meet your father she [TS]

  goes and meets well-spaced she made [TS]

  meets the aliens who have masqueraded as [TS]

  her father because they because she [TS]

  wouldn't be able to groc spoiler alert [TS]

  she would be able to groc what they look [TS]

  I'll IC or shoot or or not they're not [TS]

  that just looks but [TS]

  their whole form I can I get it so they [TS]

  could appear to her [TS]

  they could have appeared to her as a [TS]

  swarm of bees Coke machine they appeared [TS]

  as a talking Coke machine belt buckle [TS]

  but instead they chose to appear to her [TS]

  as her as her father which is a fucked [TS]

  up thing for an alien consciousness to [TS]

  do typically that's even allowed in the [TS]

  alien ethics if they know enough to [TS]

  impersonate somebody's dad they [TS]

  shouldn't be allowed to do it right and [TS]

  if I don't panic but I I just gotta draw [TS]

  a line in the space [TS]

  exactly if I were a Jodie Foster space [TS]

  scientists and I got out into into like [TS]

  a space world and my dead father arrived [TS]

  and started talking to me in like I [TS]

  would feel it talking to me in his like [TS]

  a it is fatherly way and it's definitely [TS]

  I would feel very manipulated by these [TS]

  UFOs I would instance i would instantly [TS]

  not trust them I what I wouldn't want to [TS]

  talk to somebody else [TS]

  yeah right like okay alright I've seen [TS]

  what you can do it's a nice parlor trick [TS]

  can you appear to me as Richard Nixon [TS]

  now right i could that could have been [TS]

  somebody who is new there and they were [TS]

  abusing the technology and we're not [TS]

  fully aware you don't mean maybe it was [TS]

  maybe there's a new alien on the job but [TS]

  that's the thing i really i do are they [TS]

  contacting so many in sentient races [TS]

  around the around the universe that [TS]

  there that this is something that [TS]

  they've assigned to an intern well what [TS]

  about Clarence the angel and now it's a [TS]

  wonderful life [TS]

  I mean you gotta start somewhere I've [TS]

  never seen it's a wonderful life I'm not [TS]

  seen that I've seen that it's a it's got [TS]

  some multi first time traveling anyway [TS]

  in this movie with Jodie Foster [TS]

  yeah where the where the swarm of bees [TS]

  is appearing to her as her father [TS]

  Matthew McConaughey plays a role uh [TS]

  where he is some kind of spiritual [TS]

  leader [TS]

  yeah this is again a fantasy future [TS]

  world where he is a how would you [TS]

  describe him a young Billy Graham [TS]

  who has a lot of moral authority that [TS]

  charismatic spiritual figure charismatic [TS]

  spiritual figure that's exactly right [TS]

  like a young Billy Graham a young [TS]

  diagram but with a lot of like a deep [TS]

  soul wisdom so that he is again i can [TS]

  imagine that right so yeah butBut I can [TS]

  imagine playing that but such that he is [TS]

  consulted by presidents and heads of [TS]

  state like a young Billy Graham like a [TS]

  young Billy Graham and he like gets him [TS]

  he's on one of these advisory boards [TS]

  he's a central figure he is the voice of [TS]

  he is the voice of faith and religion in [TS]

  this science movie and he is and he so [TS]

  i'm watching this movie and I'm like I [TS]

  like Jodie Foster like carl sagan i like [TS]

  the idea of a science a movie i love the [TS]

  idea how this is gonna be terrible [TS]

  spoilers if you haven't seen this movie [TS]

  i love the idea that you that that space [TS]

  travel is basically time travel and this [TS]

  and that and the whole spaceship design [TS]

  is just that at that we on earth [TS]

  perceive it to be like that she just [TS]

  fell through a hole and came out the [TS]

  other side you couldn't protect you from [TS]

  time for a while [TS]

  yeah she was gone she was gone for a [TS]

  long time in her world and in our world [TS]

  and appeared that the Machine didn't [TS]

  work and nobody believed that she went [TS]

  because it's like the eye like the eye [TS]

  so good that such a nice nice a nice [TS]

  touch a nice device this device although [TS]

  again I feel like a panel of scientists [TS]

  would be able to understand this concept [TS]

  if she explained it to them and then [TS]

  nobody when she got back nobody believed [TS]

  her and she was disgraced so what [TS]

  happens with the look on his characters [TS]

  he learned lesson about love full [TS]

  sentence that's exactly that is probably [TS]

  what happens i don't i was evident it [TS]

  every time he came on the screen i close [TS]

  my eyes and I when mmmnn mnnn because [TS]

  he's so callow so like so unbelievable [TS]

  in the role of somebody that anyone [TS]

  would care about that and to put him as [TS]

  the like heart of the film like the like [TS]

  the emotional part of the movie was such [TS]

  a was such a terrible casting decision [TS]

  that's a lot of weight to carry for any [TS]

  actor but it sounds like you're saying [TS]

  he wasn't up to it see what you want in [TS]

  that role is a chubby guy if somebody's [TS]

  gonna be the emotional heart of a [TS]

  science movie i like that way night [TS]

  Seinfeld's Newman thank you know if you [TS]

  put a guy if you put a guy with a little [TS]

  bit of a chunky guy if in the center of [TS]

  a roll like that [TS]

  now that's the thing you're going to [TS]

  believe that a chunky guy's got heart [TS]

  right you're gonna believe you don't [TS]

  give that a guy like Matthew McConaughey [TS]

  who who who appears to be carved out of [TS]

  mahogany that guy's got no heart seems [TS]

  like you want to do stuff to your [TS]

  panties or maybe get into your bank [TS]

  account [TS]

  yeah you know what he wants to do he [TS]

  wants to make some fish tacos and he [TS]

  wants to go boogie board [TS]

  he's a bad man that's what he wants he [TS]

  does he wants to go he wants to have him [TS]

  Sammy Hagar over they're gonna make some [TS]

  fish tacos he's gonna make his famous [TS]

  fucking salsa and then they're going to [TS]

  go putting her it's pretty high [TS]

  he's not he does not want to be the be [TS]

  the emotional heart of the film you [TS]

  don't believe it not for a second LTE [TS]

  you consider a stretch role for him [TS]

  anything where he's so so in that in [TS]

  that TV show where he was playing [TS]

  against the guy from cheers yeah sure [TS]

  that was what he was very convincing in [TS]

  that movie because he was a gacked out [TS]

  like bad cop he was Abby was good at [TS]

  like drug in laconic yeah he was a dumb [TS]

  philosopher and that maybe with a lot of [TS]

  dumb philosophy but it was exactly the [TS]

  kind of dumb philosophy that I gacked [TS]

  out cop would would spew right you [TS]

  should be a consultant on this thing he [TS]

  was not the chubby guy that should have [TS]

  been at the center of both the be [TS]

  science fiction movies that seinfeld [TS]

  away night [TS]

  well you know he's only have to be him [TS]

  but maybe shave his head he might [TS]

  likewise i would even by seth rogen in [TS]

  those roles i think he'll I think just [TS]

  for which were also nothing I don't mean [TS]

  to go on a chubby thing here i think i [TS]

  think one night lost a tremendous amount [TS]

  of weight he had one of those two [TS]

  transformative weight loss experiences [TS]

  do you think that it was a do you think [TS]

  he got a lap belt [TS]

  oh that's what the dot leopard leopard a [TS]

  gossipy thing [TS]

  yeah I could be could be or they give [TS]

  you the time tell me i think is John [TS]

  he'll also had a big go weight loss [TS]

  thing [TS]

  oh I saw that but easy seems to begin [TS]

  its hard the yo-yo thing is real you [TS]

  know my mom believes that that people [TS]

  who lose a lot of weight [TS]

  uh by any method of exercise and and [TS]

  diet she believes that those people will [TS]

  always tell you what they did at always [TS]

  so that someone who loses a lot of [TS]

  weight sudden now who does not tell you [TS]

  in exhaustive detail the method by which [TS]

  they did it invariably have had some [TS]

  kind of gastric bypass [TS]

  oh you okay not that there's anything [TS]

  wrong with that but there's [TS]

  extraordinary medical surgical means [TS]

  involved actually a commitment that she [TS]

  believes she believes that that anyone [TS]

  who has used a system of like changing [TS]

  their diet and exercise is going to bore [TS]

  the shit out of you about it it's almost [TS]

  like if you had a bunch of people [TS]

  sitting around left with four people [TS]

  sitting around the room for any gender [TS]

  really like anybody and like one person [TS]

  starts talking about their kids another [TS]

  person starts talking about their kids [TS]

  are you talking about and just talk [TS]

  about how their kid used to be adorable [TS]

  and is now I dick mean the second one [TS]

  comes in third one comes in EM there's a [TS]

  pretty good chance if you had a kid [TS]

  well let's be honest they probably [TS]

  turned out to be a dick you're gonna [TS]

  jump into that conversation the only [TS]

  people who don't jump into that [TS]

  conversation or someone who doesn't have [TS]

  a kid god bless them and goes and goes [TS]

  how that's really it sounds like a pain [TS]

  right thing here if you've done [TS]

  something people are proud of what [TS]

  they've done and you know and especially [TS]

  with the things like pregnancy or weight [TS]

  loss or you know AAA or whatever he's [TS]

  there are people who are going to give [TS]

  you they've got their story I try very [TS]

  hard not to talk about my diet and I [TS]

  cannot help [TS]

  oh I cannot help but not talk about it [TS]

  because as soon as somebody like so many [TS]

  things I swore to myself I would never [TS]

  ever do nothing to feel bad about it [TS]

  that's the second part that's the [TS]

  painful part is it doesn't bother me it [TS]

  doesn't really talk about my bowel [TS]

  movements and cassette tapes two years [TS]

  ago when somebody was talking about how [TS]

  they were gluten [TS]

  yeah I was like oh my god you're so [TS]

  boring stop it stop talking and then [TS]

  when I went gluten-free I was like well [TS]

  you know I went gluten-free recently and [TS]

  lot of water supply and I was so proud [TS]

  of myself and I had completely forgotten [TS]

  completely blocked out that i had [TS]

  formerly found at people like that [TS]

  boring so anyway that is that that's [TS]

  that's my mom's theory but my mom has a [TS]

  lot of theories have to take them all [TS]

  the grain of salt [TS]

  yeah but in the aggregate she's right a [TS]

  lot of the time I don't have a dog in [TS]

  this fight [TS]

  thank you think she is did you ever talk [TS]

  about there's one episode of this [TS]

  american life called the seven things [TS]

  you're not supposed to talk about [TS]

  everyone was that one here we talked [TS]

  about that no I think that might've been [TS]

  one of your other programs yeah but I [TS]

  want to find me the it's basically that [TS]

  the notion the show it's kind of a silly [TS]

  idea but the idea is Sarah cainnic I [TS]

  went on to do Dean being being being [TS]

  cereal her mother i believe it's her [TS]

  mother is has this list of seven topics [TS]

  no one should ever talk about [TS]

  oh and they are you get this right [TS]

  you're period what your diet and what [TS]

  you eat your health in general [TS]

  yeah i was just doing some tennis club [TS]

  rules ok here we go keep going lost [TS]

  three tennis balls [TS]

  I don't just toss these out so wait [TS]

  let's go back to get pot we gotta get [TS]

  your period we got a diet number four we [TS]

  have Sleep Number five your dreams [TS]

  oh don't talk about your dreams but [TS]

  don't talk about sleep either huh i'm [TS]

  just getting there [TS]

  I love this one number six I love number [TS]

  6 root talk what's that how you got [TS]

  there [TS]

  oh man we were gonna take 280 but then [TS]

  it turned out there is a we have to take [TS]

  a cut over and go down the 1010 you just [TS]

  took that you just took away eighty [TS]

  percent well when I talk about I know [TS]

  exactly but but you know I think those [TS]

  are the I'm just I'm just saying that if [TS]

  we don't have these things to talk about [TS]

  nothing i agree with this but that [TS]

  sounds like all stuff that like if we [TS]

  didn't have those things to talk about [TS]

  it how your kids eventually become dicks [TS]

  there would be no much to talk about if [TS]

  you don't you know what for me diet and [TS]

  sleep like right about that and sleep [TS]

  when i'm going to say at this point that [TS]

  when someone is introduced into our [TS]

  family you know when somebody like gets [TS]

  to be friends with the with the [TS]

  Roderick's [TS]

  one of the one of the things that they [TS]

  have to sort of a custom themselves to [TS]

  is that any time my mom and i arrived at [TS]

  a place or depart we're going to spend [TS]

  two minutes talking about the route but [TS]

  you know she's like okay I'm taking off [TS]

  and going a little bit right it's where [TS]

  you going and she goes on you haven't [TS]

  done that then it and if we're both in [TS]

  one location and we're going to a [TS]

  separate location we will absolutely [TS]

  take different routes and compare and [TS]

  deaf and we're very interested in who [TS]

  gets to the place where I think it [TS]

  varies i think it varies a great deal [TS]

  especially as people get older and you [TS]

  can compare and contrast your different [TS]

  dietary problems and also just like to [TS]

  say if anybody out there's any producers [TS]

  I i would like to see a cable reality [TS]

  show called getting to be friends with [TS]

  Roderick's haha very it would be a 10 [TS]

  season show at the end maybe you'll be [TS]

  friends now I could be like things that [TS]

  could be a contest though it could be an [TS]

  elimination thing right could be like a [TS]

  hidden-camera you know as he has more [TS]

  and kind of thing at the end of every [TS]

  episode [TS]

  my mom and I would sit down and be like [TS]

  I kind of like this one and she'd be [TS]

  like mm no be nice if you left now up [TS]

  um I went skiing this past weekend on [TS]

  hill i went scheme for the first time in [TS]

  a long long time [TS]

  uh probably well the first time in many [TS]

  years I went skiing in this yeast in [TS]

  your family [TS]

  this was a thing yep just like a [TS]

  big-time skier right well I was too we [TS]

  were that's right yeah you said that [TS]

  yeah and and it was really it was very [TS]

  it was very weird a melon [TS]

  because it's a thing that I haven't done [TS]

  in a lot in a long time and it probably [TS]

  in the last 20 years I've done three [TS]

  times but it's a thing that I know how [TS]

  to do really well I'll you still have it [TS]

  is like a ride a bike as they say oh [TS]

  yeah because between the ages of 8 and [TS]

  23 i skied constantly i raced I train [TS]

  mostly in Alaska it but I was i skied in [TS]

  college too but you know in the summer i [TS]

  trained i would late we would we would [TS]

  go for a long run and then we would lay [TS]

  down in the park and our coach would [TS]

  walk around we all be laying on the [TS]

  grass with our eyes closed and our coach [TS]

  would walk around between us really [TS]

  slowly [TS]

  this is on a beautiful sunny summer day [TS]

  and in Alaska and he'd be like you're at [TS]

  the top of the course and you're you're [TS]

  checking your bindings and and then you [TS]

  hear that you hear the buzzer babe [TS]

  Bam Bam and then year then you're out [TS]

  you're on the course and you're making [TS]

  that first turn and you're just carving [TS]

  perfectly visualizations and we would [TS]

  sit and lay in the park while he would [TS]

  he would visualize an entire slalom race [TS]

  really even back then I mean I think [TS]

  this is being a modern invention but [TS]

  that you really get it back then 1980 [TS]

  this is 84 probably well clean golfer [TS]

  student exchange top don't call first do [TS]

  that a lot too big they say like [TS]

  visualizations like ninety percent or [TS]

  something or forty percent or so yeah I [TS]

  think it's a big sports thing and i [TS]

  think i remember at the time being told [TS]

  or feeling like this was really new and [TS]

  really innovative and it was really [TS]

  effective like you would lay there after [TS]

  a long run you'll be like you know [TS]

  feeling your body and the Sun is beating [TS]

  down and you're thinking about this ski [TS]

  race and you're imagining yourself just [TS]

  skiing so well through this course and i [TS]

  absolutely the following year during ski [TS]

  season like at made a real leap [TS]

  inability and had started to and i was i [TS]

  I started winning races [TS]

  I I got a couple of gold medals that's [TS]

  amazing people were starting to talk [TS]

  about me like I was a comer it all ended [TS]

  badly but but it was a it was a it was a [TS]

  big part of my teen life and and it's [TS]

  not something I haven't done in years so [TS]

  I so is it just on athletics it touches [TS]

  on like social stuff right obviously [TS]

  like people it's like a thing people [TS]

  would do for fun I think people would do [TS]

  for fun it's also a very expensive sport [TS]

  so there's this other aspect of it where [TS]

  it ties into it so it's a it's a very [TS]

  class oriented thing like skiing is is [TS]

  like horse it's like horse people right [TS]

  you it's kinda like it is like golf in [TS]

  in that sense right i mean where you've [TS]

  got there's lots of ongoing expenses [TS]

  there's lots of costly equipment you [TS]

  could take lessons forever loon and and [TS]

  like a lot of things that are tied to [TS]

  social class there's the kind of [TS]

  confusing a misattribution of like skill [TS]

  in skiing that skill and skiing is is a [TS]

  sign that you are a superior person kind [TS]

  of you know like skill in golf or or or [TS]

  tennis or horse riding a is a sign that [TS]

  you are especially if you make it as [TS]

  they say look easy right [TS]

  that's a very high-status things it's [TS]

  one thing to take a main classes and [TS]

  everybody know it but people who can [TS]

  cook in golf or ski or boat with [TS]

  apparent ease i think that's super high [TS]

  status [TS]

  yeah it's there's a lot of status [TS]

  involved but also for me like to be up [TS]

  on the ski mountain but it's also a [TS]

  solitary sport but it's a solitary sport [TS]

  where as you're making a run you are [TS]

  conscious of being visible to people [TS]

  there are people standing all around the [TS]

  ski hill watching uski there are people [TS]

  up on the lift watching uski like [TS]

  they're it's it is it's a solitary [TS]

  performance of a kind of ballet if [TS]

  you're skiing well [TS]

  I because when i'm writing the lift or [TS]

  standing on the side of the hill and [TS]

  someone skis by and his skiing well i [TS]

  will stop stop what I'm thinking and [TS]

  watch them and admire them [TS]

  it's a they're there every day and the [TS]

  course of of being on a ski mountain [TS]

  there are multiple times where you see [TS]

  somebody and you just admire their [TS]

  skiing and it's a form of love your [TS]

  beauty know i-i-i don't feel that in [TS]

  very many other things as much as I do [TS]

  watching somebody do watching somebody [TS]

  perform a sport that I know what it [TS]

  feels like to do well [TS]

  mhm and as I watch them do it well I [TS]

  don't know them I don't know anything [TS]

  about them but i'm watching them ski [TS]

  well and I think I like this I like [TS]

  watching this and so when you're skiing [TS]

  you're also aware that like and ninety [TS]

  percent of the people around on the ski [TS]

  mountain are not watching you and don't [TS]

  care and don't wouldn't recognize that [TS]

  you were doing it well but there's this [TS]

  small percentage of people on the lift [TS]

  or on on the hill that you know that [TS]

  you're aware of are going to recognize [TS]

  that you are performing at a higher [TS]

  level and they're gonna appreciate it [TS]

  one way that it seems a little bit like [TS]

  skateboarding even before there was [TS]

  snowboarding right i mean in that sense [TS]

  that you you would sit there and you [TS]

  practice you do this thing all day long [TS]

  over and over and over and when you see [TS]

  somebody who's really capable of [TS]

  something you know is extremely [TS]

  difficult kind of can't help but stop to [TS]

  admire them [TS]

  that's right that's right and a lot of [TS]

  things like I mean I millions of people [TS]

  love watching basketball highlights [TS]

  because there are these feats of [TS]

  incredible athleticism that we all [TS]

  recognized as a tremendous right but [TS]

  very few of us can also play basketball [TS]

  that well and imagine watching [TS]

  basketball highlights if you were [TS]

  somebody who was an incredible [TS]

  basketball player i get that that's it [TS]

  that's a great distinction its you can [TS]

  you can appreciate just based on the [TS]

  history of it but you've never actually [TS]

  you know suck a 3-pointer yeah or like [TS]

  jumped up and around the back of you [TS]

  know jumped over somebody's head and and [TS]

  dunk the basketball [TS]

  and so I i was having this incredible [TS]

  experience all weekend when I was like [TS]

  it's this is one of the few things that [TS]

  I am genuinely good at and there are [TS]

  very few of those things right [TS]

  I do not consider myself to be genuinely [TS]

  good at playing guitar I am i'm good at [TS]

  guitar impassable guitar but in a room [TS]

  full of people that are great at guitar [TS]

  you know nobody's gonna be like now [TS]

  let's loss sit and watch Roderick right [TS]

  I'm gonna kind of smile and make a joke [TS]

  and play a joke solo I've heard you say [TS]

  that a lot of a lot of time a lot of [TS]

  places that you'd feel like you didn't [TS]

  even get you always see to things that [TS]

  you never you never really got bothered [TS]

  to try and get good at guitar until [TS]

  you're in your late twenties and even [TS]

  then you're just as good as you need to [TS]

  be to do what you want to do you never [TS]

  saw it as this application to aspire to [TS]

  greater and greater rock [TS]

  yeah something like that yeah and and [TS]

  part of it maybe is that a that skiing [TS]

  is something that I started to do when i [TS]

  was ten or or I'm sorry aight and I [TS]

  didn't start playing guitar when I was [TS]

  eight and I didn't start really i didn't [TS]

  really do much else at eight [TS]

  like I didn't get good at baseball I [TS]

  didn't I wasn't good at Dungeons and [TS]

  Dragons I wasn't good at all those [TS]

  things that I wanted to do i I didn't [TS]

  practice drawing i didn't i didn't get [TS]

  the this I didn't develop a skill to [TS]

  this to the degree that it was [TS]

  unconscious but with skiing after not [TS]

  having been in 10 years I get up on a [TS]

  pair you know I go into the pro shop and [TS]

  I'm like look I'm a 46 year old guy but [TS]

  and I haven't been skiing in 10 years [TS]

  but I'm gonna want your best gear and [TS]

  they're like okay and they bring out the [TS]

  they bring out this gear and they put it [TS]

  out there and I'm like yeah no not not [TS]

  this stuff I want that stuff you know [TS]

  when I point up to the thing and they're [TS]

  like okay man and they put me in this [TS]

  stuff and I get up on the hill and I'm [TS]

  as i'm writing the ski lift I'm like you [TS]

  know this is pretty technical gear like [TS]

  i hope that i'm not i hope i didn't [TS]

  overestimate my need for it you know i [TS]

  hope i don't get up there and penske has [TS]

  changed so much and this year's so [TS]

  radical that I'm gonna be just about 10 [TS]

  years since i went last night and that [TS]

  was the first time I'd gone in five [TS]

  years and I went one day and then there [TS]

  was I went one day five years before [TS]

  that I would not be surprised if [TS]

  adequate this really better [TS]

  it's changed a lot but the art of skiing [TS]

  hasn't changed and I got off the lift [TS]

  and I made a couple of turns and I was [TS]

  like all right this is the appropriate [TS]

  gear and I understand how it works and [TS]

  then the rest of the day I was just in [TS]

  this place of a in this place of like [TS]

  kind of training again where every turn [TS]

  i made i was thinking about and I was [TS]

  like that was a good turn and now we're [TS]

  gonna set up the next turn and here we [TS]

  go and then for the cardiovascular [TS]

  standpoint you could do it seems very [TS]

  athletic one so I was after the first [TS]

  couple of runs i was super tired my legs [TS]

  hurt everything about me her and and I [TS]

  recognized a few things that I was 46 [TS]

  and so I could not I could not get air [TS]

  anymore I was not going to get I was not [TS]

  gonna go off any jumps probably ever [TS]

  again and there were you know in any [TS]

  kind of skiing in any ski run where [TS]

  you're really pushing yourself you're [TS]

  going to arrive at a moment where you're [TS]

  like okay I'm at the threshold now right [TS]

  I'm on that I'm on the outside of my [TS]

  ability and I think that's true of [TS]

  anybody no matter how good they are if [TS]

  they're pushing their envelope they get [TS]

  to the edge of it it it seems like every [TS]

  i always keep once when I was a kid very [TS]

  young kid but like you with the way you [TS]

  watching somebody doing the way you [TS]

  described it really sounds like not only [TS]

  is that true that you're always pushing [TS]

  it but that you didn't need to push that [TS]

  in a way you might not expect could come [TS]

  up with like almost any second and that [TS]

  could be something of meeting a certain [TS]

  amount of velocity you didn't expect I [TS]

  certainly imagine we talk about things [TS]

  like even small just jumping around how [TS]

  hard that must be on your joints but [TS]

  then also just anything like one false [TS]

  move and you're just gonna tear some [TS]

  part of your body really really hard [TS]

  right yeah you're going super fast down [TS]

  a place and even if you are very [TS]

  familiar with the terrain which like the [TS]

  resort i grew up on I knew every inch of [TS]

  it but even so every day is different [TS]

  right because its nature and the weather [TS]

  and the snow i mean it's always [TS]

  different so an area that you know [TS]

  really well you can come across it and [TS]

  it's been this the situation has changed [TS]

  completely [TS]

  but as it was happening this past [TS]

  weekend I was on completely unfamiliar [TS]

  terrain and every time I came over arise [TS]

  I had no idea what was on the other side [TS]

  it could be a it could be a mile-long [TS]

  groomed run or it could be a cliff into [TS]

  a waterfall every time you know every [TS]

  time you come over a a horizon and so [TS]

  the other thing I being 46 really [TS]

  pointed out to me was that i needed to i [TS]

  needed to bring my the the edge of my [TS]

  envelope in considerably because the [TS]

  really the last time I skied very much [TS]

  at all [TS]

  I was still young enough that that that [TS]

  the my boundaries were way way out [TS]

  mhm and I needed to bring those weigh-in [TS]

  and there were a couple of times on the [TS]

  hill where I was standing on the edge of [TS]

  some double black diamond run and [TS]

  looking down and like is this doable yes [TS]

  should i do it [TS]

  no I should not I should not do this [TS]

  because I can do it but I don't need to [TS]

  prove that and I and the risk of of [TS]

  doing this and and making even just a [TS]

  normal error is that i will hurt myself [TS]

  and then then today will be [TS]

  characterized by my injury rather than [TS]

  by the fact that I'm having a really fun [TS]

  time [TS]

  yeah and so that was it that was new to [TS]

  me I'd never I'd never stood at the top [TS]

  of a run before and look down and said [TS]

  can I yes should I know and I did that a [TS]

  few times and I was I was pretty proud [TS]

  of that I think that's pretty smart [TS]

  child is as good as you may still be [TS]

  like it's just the stakes are higher [TS]

  oh I'm old I mean I you know and and [TS]

  what was great was feeling like feeling [TS]

  after a couple of runs that i was so [TS]

  tired that maybe I had made a terrible [TS]

  mistake in buying an all-day pass maybe [TS]

  I should go down and take a bath and and [TS]

  then skiing through that pain and [TS]

  loosening up and getting my you know and [TS]

  and finding reserves of strength and by [TS]

  the end you know and then i skied until [TS]

  the last run and was was sad too sad [TS]

  that they didn't have night skiing you [TS]

  know but it was very weird to feel like [TS]

  this was a thing that I then I I know [TS]

  how to do and then I think that is such [TS]

  a big part of my life really and i have [TS]

  chosen not to do it for 20 years for [TS]

  reasons that are all about [TS]

  well it's really expensive and it's kind [TS]

  of paint has to get up there so anyway [TS]

  it's better you know what I I'm gonna go [TS]

  to the cafe this morning and read the [TS]

  newspaper instead and everyday sort of [TS]

  making that decision for 20 years and [TS]

  and leaving this side of me where I [TS]

  actually know how to do something that's [TS]

  really gratifying that's physical and [TS]

  that's in this other realm and I just I [TS]

  just don't [TS]

  it's not a part of my life who and it [TS]

  was it was aight i'm still kind of like [TS]

  grappling with it [TS]

  grappling with how it how it how it is [TS]

  that i could go so that i could go year [TS]

  after year and not even want to do it [TS]

  once or [TS]

  want to do it but never have that desire [TS]

  to do it be enough to like overcome the [TS]

  inertia of of sitting around [TS]

  I mean doesn't question kinda sorta [TS]

  answer itself which was that you just [TS]

  you hadn't having not done so long i [TS]

  guess the question some ways like when [TS]

  do you start to not do something when [TS]

  does it start to count as you're not [TS]

  doing something cuz then once you did [TS]

  you were like oh this is great huh [TS]

  but like it used to be a huge part of [TS]

  your life so it seems strange that you [TS]

  didn't at least kind of check back in [TS]

  with it [TS]

  well yeah I mean it was a butt but it's [TS]

  sort of related to you know it's related [TS]

  to my well it's a relationship to action [TS]

  right if you like when I talk about this [TS]

  a lot i'll be on the freeway and AG i'll [TS]

  drive by me in a truck and he's pulling [TS]

  a trailer and it's got two snowmobiles [TS]

  and to dirt bikes and and and a boat all [TS]

  on the same trailer right and he's [TS]

  pulling this thing up into the siskiyou [TS]

  use and you just know that this guy's [TS]

  and his whole family's in the truck and [TS]

  he's got a cabin up there somewhere and [TS]

  he lives for this [TS]

  he's we work for his he works at his job [TS]

  but he's always thinking about getting [TS]

  up to the lake and you know my dad was [TS]

  like that with his freaking airplane his [TS]

  goddamn fuckin 182 and he just poured [TS]

  money into it and he every time the sun [TS]

  came out he's down at the airport [TS]

  monkeying with his airplane and you know [TS]

  every spare minute he's like let's go [TS]

  let's let's get a hamburger up [TS]

  let's let's get a hamburger up [TS]

  talking now let's fly up to nil chick [TS]

  and and then you're you know and then [TS]

  anything he would we get in the plane [TS]

  and he'd have his sunglasses on [TS]

  he'd have his reading glasses on top of [TS]

  his head because he needed them to where [TS]

  to look at maps and then he had a third [TS]

  pair of glasses on top of that to see [TS]

  long-distance had like three pairs of [TS]

  glasses on at all times when he's in his [TS]

  plan and work when we're puttering along [TS]

  and I'm looking out the window and I'm [TS]

  like you know this is a this is another [TS]

  thing I was raised doing right if that [TS]

  if you put me behind that if you put me [TS]

  in a 182 and said fly me somewhere I [TS]

  could i do it without thinking but it [TS]

  has never it never has interested me to [TS]

  have a habit of jet ski or a lake cabin [TS]

  or an hour a small plane because i have [TS]

  a different kind of relationship to [TS]

  action [TS]

  I don't care about action in a in a in a [TS]

  week in a way we do you do care about [TS]

  action [TS]

  I'm not sure I understand the question [TS]

  I don't think how do you mean I mean [TS]

  what I had to do with the guy with the [TS]

  jet skis [TS]

  I mean the guy with the jet skis is [TS]

  making such a personal investment right [TS]

  right [TS]

  he's such he's so its console costly to [TS]

  have that fun and that's what it always [TS]

  seems like to me like it seems like the [TS]

  kids a cost-benefit analysis I guess [TS]

  oh yeah sure and especially when you [TS]

  take into account the time the time and [TS]

  the and the getting up early and the [TS]

  just the gasoline [TS]

  I think everybody has such interesting [TS]

  differences and what they gravitate [TS]

  towards in terms of which you can very [TS]

  loosely call hobby [TS]

  yeah because there are so many the way I [TS]

  look at it anyway and every edit you [TS]

  just talked about in passing or [TS]

  in-person reflects the many vectors to [TS]

  that because you have things like should [TS]

  this be a largely practical thing or do [TS]

  I kind of like the fact that it's [TS]

  frivolous it for if you like or if it's [TS]

  something something that is you know [TS]

  doesn't have a practical purpose [TS]

  some people like making furniture cuz [TS]

  then [TS]

  they can make beautiful furniture and [TS]

  give it away you know some people like [TS]

  the fact that they're building something [TS]

  on a minecraft server that's just for [TS]

  fun [TS]

  is it something where I really want this [TS]

  way how much it does doing this expose [TS]

  me to other people and how do I feel [TS]

  about that because I really think a big [TS]

  part especially historically men's [TS]

  hobbies is there's the one kind where [TS]

  you hang out with other people and [TS]

  there's the other kind where you kind of [TS]

  have to be left alone [TS]

  I think those knocked her into it I'm [TS]

  and I mean I can go on there's things [TS]

  like I think there is an element I don't [TS]

  know not in the people that I like I [TS]

  hope this isn't always an element but [TS]

  there is the element then of conspicuous [TS]

  consumption like do I want to have three [TS]

  boats or do i want to have in that guys [TS]

  Casey's he's a little over transported [TS]

  in terms of the number of things he has [TS]

  but and then there's just stuff like in [TS]

  my family I think about how much the men [TS]

  love and my uncle my uncle my father me [TS]

  just so many people on and and I don't [TS]

  need to just talk about man but I think [TS]

  that's kind of the direction we're [TS]

  talking about here enjoy the [TS]

  paraphernalia of the hobby which could [TS]

  be stuff like reading magazines it could [TS]

  be things like going to the bike shop to [TS]

  look at wrenches or whatever and then [TS]

  you get into stuff like I guess this is [TS]

  kind of the social thing but shoptalk [TS]

  like getting the chance to go fly out to [TS]

  the guy who fixes your dad's plane and [TS]

  shoot the shit with himself and i don't [TS]

  know i think every one of those is so [TS]

  different and it could be something like [TS]

  could be me read a comic book myself at [TS]

  midnight or it could be you you know [TS]

  arranging the ski trip [TS]

  that's more money than you would [TS]

  normally pay and like what makes [TS]

  somebody find that attractive let alone [TS]

  real relaxing is is so different like [TS]

  the idea of going skiing to me is not [TS]

  appealing nothing it's bad but that's [TS]

  very much not something that I would go [TS]

  out of my way to do because it'll take [TS]

  my doesn't take my boxes has no [TS]

  practical application well you even [TS]

  still just like a little brother was [TS]

  trying to say that all these things men [TS]

  women and children whoever there's [TS]

  something that feels a little part of [TS]

  your personality what the nice thing [TS]

  about a hobby if you want to call it [TS]

  that it's kind of like this spring spray [TS]

  foam insulation you can shoot in your [TS]

  life that fills this important part that [TS]

  needs to be filled in for some people [TS]

  that's the social social part for other [TS]

  people's like I just need to be left [TS]

  alone for [TS]

  hours a week mowing the lawn great [TS]

  chance to listen to podcast and not talk [TS]

  to anybody you know I was that responds [TS]

  really what you're saying but I think [TS]

  that part partly explains you had a lot [TS]

  of your social intercourse coming from [TS]

  rock and roll for a long time and you [TS]

  know I mean I'm not trying to say [TS]

  there's like a one-to-one explanation [TS]

  but like I think it's actually sadly [TS]

  easy to understand why we fall out of [TS]

  things like that over time because other [TS]

  stuff takes its place and then the [TS]

  inertia [TS]

  now favors the new things you're doing [TS]

  rather than the old thing which is [TS]

  admittedly an expensive pain-in-the-ass [TS]

  I was what i was driving in and I was [TS]

  driving past the railroad which is how I [TS]

  get here every day I Drive past around [TS]

  and look at the railroad and today I was [TS]

  like railroad right the railroad it's so [TS]

  it would be it would have been to me so [TS]

  easy to talk about multiverses like [TS]

  there's a version of me that this is [TS]

  your sliding doors good one yeah and [TS]

  she's gonna make a difference [TS]

  yeah there's a version of me that just [TS]

  stayed in the ski resort town where I [TS]

  grew up and is still there [TS]

  there are dudes like that in every I [TS]

  mean I brought up the lift with the guys [TS]

  like i've been i've been at whistler for [TS]

  32 years I was like right I could have [TS]

  been incurred for 32 years and that [TS]

  would have died like that's an [TS]

  interesting version of me [TS]

  the one that stayed in Girdwood but [TS]

  there was there was a there is a version [TS]

  of me that really wanted to work for the [TS]

  railroad [TS]

  oh really yeah i mean look at the ski [TS]

  resort has a young adult as a kid in a [TS]

  unit okay like that i get i'm getting [TS]

  fire we drive around the Truman car I [TS]

  mean that sounds pretty fun pretty fun [TS]

  but like as when i was a kid looking at [TS]

  the future i really wanted to be a ski [TS]

  lift operator that seems like a great [TS]

  job and I wanted to be a so many jobs at [TS]

  the resort i wanted to be the the person [TS]

  that I want to be on the ski patrol I [TS]

  wanted to be one of those people that [TS]

  walks around the resort with a [TS]

  walkie-talkie and a baseball hat and is [TS]

  like taking care of business at the [TS]

  resort you know and and that was a thing [TS]

  I could have I could have pursued that [TS]

  job I never ended up having a job at the [TS]

  resort but my sister worked at the [TS]

  resort for years [TS]

  and but then with the railroad like to [TS]

  be I I was friends with the guy who was [TS]

  a conductor I bet this was a grunt rock [TS]

  friend of mine and he was one of those [TS]

  grunge rock people that had a straight [TS]

  job that was kind of fascinating i mean [TS]

  most rock-and-roll people have a [TS]

  straight job that's not fascinating your [TS]

  part bartender somewhere in order to [TS]

  make it go [TS]

  you kind of have to have something [TS]

  uneventful that yeah but is this guy had [TS]

  he his job was that he had started as a [TS]

  brakeman working for Amtrak and it [TS]

  worked his way up by the time he was 30 [TS]

  years old to like conductor on routes [TS]

  leaving seattle and he had one of those [TS]

  jobs like being on an airline pilot [TS]

  where you worked you were on two days [TS]

  off three or something and then he did [TS]

  the most amazing thing I was pretty good [TS]

  friends with them at this time and I [TS]

  understood enough about railroad culture [TS]

  to know that there are two separate [TS]

  tracks you are on the conductor track or [TS]

  you are on the engineer track and [TS]

  there's no crossover if you're on the [TS]

  engineer track you start at the bottom [TS]

  and work your way up and you're an [TS]

  engineer and if you're on the conductor [TS]

  track you become a conductor but that [TS]

  you're different worlds and he got to be [TS]

  a conductor and gave it all away and [TS]

  started as started to as an apprentice [TS]

  in on the engineer track started over 30 [TS]

  years old because he wanted to be up in [TS]

  that engine on those three day trips [TS]

  across the plains whatever end and he [TS]

  has sent sort of disappeared from my [TS]

  life he he became an engineer and and [TS]

  literally drove that train high on [TS]

  cocaine now [TS]

  probably not yeah but like a you know [TS]

  drove that train off into the tunnel of [TS]

  of the future and watching those trains [TS]

  this morning I was like wow what if i [TS]

  just got to work for the railroad like [TS]

  it's so elegant their tracks literally [TS]

  you're on a track [TS]

  you don't have to worry about if you're [TS]

  on the right track [TS]

  you are on the right track or you're on [TS]

  the wrong track and that's terrible you [TS]

  you're gonna figure that out pretty fast [TS]

  too [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  yeah we all learned about this thing so [TS]

  that's a particularly interesting one [TS]

  I mean I guess there's world where I was [TS]

  playing still playing any rocker being a [TS]

  waiter but i like the idea of the the [TS]

  the train thing but what other than [TS]

  playing indie-rock what was what was [TS]

  that what was the fantasy job that you [TS]

  had that like you think back and go what [TS]

  if I had been a hot air balloon [TS]

  well I mean the ones that were there [TS]

  called the world's supply / surprisingly [TS]

  in reach because I i did I wanted to be [TS]

  a writer i wanted to do design of [TS]

  different kinds and i think at the time [TS]

  I maybe in retrospect it's kind of [TS]

  surprising how much more in reach these [TS]

  things were than I expected [TS]

  I never in the modern age had anything [TS]

  like I want to be a baseball player or [TS]

  anything like that but i don't know i [TS]

  don't know it's strange though because [TS]

  there's a funny thing that happens I [TS]

  think you kind of address in the past [TS]

  but it's kind of funny were like you [TS]

  watch somebody for a while you watch the [TS]

  doing you turn away from me you come [TS]

  back you're like whoa that guy's an [TS]

  engineer on the road now or whatever you [TS]

  discover these people who have been like [TS]

  quietly building this super interesting [TS]

  career and you kind of never noticed it [TS]

  because they were doing something else [TS]

  or you're you're more focused on there [TS]

  maybe the music part contains certain [TS]

  point but i think people are are are are [TS]

  super interesting and of course as [TS]

  always I'm very envious in a weird way [TS]

  of people who join the army when they're [TS]

  young [TS]

  oh god so my i have but all of this I [TS]

  feel like comes back to the fact that i [TS]

  can i am i'm still just now even just [TS]

  now grappling with the fact that that i [TS]

  do not have access to a multiverse right [TS]

  like I'm not even get like the [TS]

  newsletter [TS]

  I've always lived I lived my whole life [TS]

  as though them as though the the [TS]

  multiverse a like exchange station was [TS]

  going to be open to me and i was going [TS]

  to be able to walk in and say now I'd [TS]

  like to be an army man for 25 years I [TS]

  think that's probably less silly [TS]

  sounding then you realize because I bet [TS]

  that's true [TS]

  because no because I mean it pulls [TS]

  together several threads about your life [TS]

  and your self assessment that I find [TS]

  very interesting I mean one of them [TS]

  being that you are in some ways more [TS]

  interested in breadth and depth you'd [TS]

  like to learn a little bit about many [TS]

  many things I think that kind of matches [TS]

  up with that it matches up with the way [TS]

  that you know life kind of pinballs us [TS]

  around and we end up going into this [TS]

  place we never expected and wasn't that [TS]

  interesting thought it would be nice to [TS]

  have a little view into what that would [TS]

  have turned out to be [TS]

  that's a scary idea right i mean i and [TS]

  and part of that is that I I'm more [TS]

  interested in breadth and depth but now [TS]

  now that is why i put that kind of like [TS]

  no I think that's I think that's [TS]

  generally true but now that we're in our [TS]

  forties and we see all these people that [TS]

  have tremendous step [TS]

  yeah i would really like a breath of [TS]

  depth oh brother I'm not yeah i mean i [TS]

  don't know mostly I i have to deal with [TS]

  other adults because i have a child and [TS]

  select the parents of other kids over [TS]

  there they feel terrible about my life [TS]

  there's one guy who's a scientist and [TS]

  he's not just a scientist he's a [TS]

  biologist he's not justify it he works [TS]

  on a very very specific kind of frog he [TS]

  does very specific frog work and he [TS]

  loved that he's like the go-to guy for [TS]

  that kind of frog [TS]

  yeah oh yeah yeah and I got ya I don't [TS]

  want to know it but i guess for the envy [TS]

  that [TS]

  yeah yeah well that's and that is B [TS]

  that's the Matthew McConaughey in a [TS]

  contact problem to bring it around which [TS]

  is that part of what made that role so [TS]

  infuriating is that he is this person [TS]

  with this like this sort of global [TS]

  religious wisdom but he's like a young [TS]

  surfer asshole [TS]

  mm and that fantasy that you would be [TS]

  that you would be young and yet already [TS]

  be this is the thing that Hollywood does [TS]

  to us all the time like oh here comes [TS]

  the world expert on frogs and it turns [TS]

  out it's a 24 year-old actress right i [TS]

  mean we see if it's the james bond can [TS]

  be the key honorees movie with the with [TS]

  the dolphins [TS]

  Johnny mnemonic no I didn't see it well [TS]

  I mean it'sit's this and this is I don't [TS]

  mean this [TS]

  sounds quite the way it sounds but you [TS]

  know there's a lot of incredibly [TS]

  talented men and women out there playing [TS]

  many roles but there used to be a thing [TS]

  I think especially in the nineties of [TS]

  taking a certain kind of very attractive [TS]

  young actress and trying to sell her as [TS]

  a as like the science person and it's I [TS]

  won't even always say was the actress i [TS]

  think a lot of it was the material [TS]

  wasn't up to it and so you end up [TS]

  everybody sounds silly and that was like [TS]

  such a thing for a while just in this [TS]

  case it's matthew mcconaughey who's the [TS]

  young woman was that Timothy Dalton [TS]

  movie where Timothy Dalton James Bond [TS]

  where the hour without ya get the girl [TS]

  with the eyes from the movie you have a [TS]

  galaxy note she's she's the one with the [TS]

  nose from starship troopers yes and I [TS]

  know exactly who you mean and she says [TS]

  she's she's like the the China [TS]

  torrington or something you have that [TS]

  all known scientist but she's a [TS]

  scientist or a nuclear of prison system [TS]

  sometimes denise richards ah who who was [TS]

  who a very very very handsome woman but [TS]

  she was a yeah she was like a national [TS]

  lab coat John she may have had a lab [TS]

  coat I'm trying to think wasn't she [TS]

  married to the guy from two and a half [TS]

  men think she was married to Charlie [TS]

  Sheen yeah Charlie Sheen everybody was a [TS]

  tiger and anyway yeah her her roll her [TS]

  commanding role as like the super [TS]

  scientist in that james bond movie was I [TS]

  think the that was the example that was [TS]

  the peak moment that's about a big peak [TS]

  wow really this is the this is the one [TS]

  this is the butt but I feel like this I [TS]

  feel I felt like in a way that sneaks [TS]

  into all of our minds and we all have [TS]

  this this idea that like well there are [TS]

  some twenty-five-year-old super [TS]

  scientist who also happen to be models [TS]

  and surfers and uh and so I'm comparing [TS]

  myself against them somewhat but at this [TS]

  point in my life I'm not the expert on [TS]

  the frogs yeah and that and being and so [TS]

  it that such as it's so seductive [TS]

  can you imagine like what do i do i do [TS]

  this frog what what am i doing tomorrow [TS]

  this frog what a what am I going to be [TS]

  remembered for this frog I know [TS]

  everything about this from gonna be easy [TS]

  to explain but it is simple to explain [TS]

  like [TS]

  to describe exactly what I do with these [TS]

  frogs gonna take some time but you can [TS]

  just all you need to know is I'm the [TS]

  go-to guy for this one kind of frog got [TS]

  a question about this frog [TS]

  yeah I also know about other frogs but [TS]

  this guy is my this is my guy [TS]

  yeah I you know but a lot of his work [TS]

  with work you know what and it maybe it [TS]

  maybe Maryland that one day when they [TS]

  look back and they say two guys talking [TS]

  podcast right guys talking podcast [TS]

  have you heard of this two guys talking [TS]

  podcast who's the expert who's the [TS]

  expert on the two guys talking podcast a [TS]

  track that's going to be Merlin Mann [TS]

  science farmers were there idea right [TS]

  paper but whoever said who said that [TS]

  technology first [TS]

  oh well I think that's yes if history [TS]

  goes a certain way i think our future is [TS]

  going to be fine and the thing is we [TS]

  can't that's something we're inside it [TS]

  right now we can't see it we cannot see [TS]

  we're too close to it we can't see the [TS]

  forest for the frogs [TS]

  mmm yeah that'll do you think the [TS]

  president's ever didn't want to meet [TS]

  with billy graham and i don't think a [TS]

  single president wanted to meet with [TS]

  billy graham every president since [TS]

  truman met with Billy Graham and I [TS]

  wonder for a certain point they're like [TS]

  okay what's your week look like well you [TS]

  know we gotta go we gotta talk to you [TS]

  Gorbachev about about this dinner and Oh [TS]

  doing only looks like it's about time to [TS]

  talk to Billy Graham again [TS]

  well here's a question for you which [TS]

  presidents do you think were actually [TS]

  religious people of faith who governed [TS]

  in part based upon their faith and [TS]

  beliefs [TS]

  i mean i-i think a question yeah I think [TS]

  Jimmy Carter was oh yeah and i think i [TS]

  think probably ronald reagan was really [TS]

  pretty opportunistic I don't know he [TS]

  said he's an onion he's tough to peel [TS]

  but like LBJ no not at all right well [TS]

  yeah but are you mean like I don't also [TS]

  would not want to imply that you cannot [TS]

  be a cynical tough you know person in [TS]

  governance who doesn't also have faith [TS]

  Yeah right right I'm gonna be a little [TS]

  bit you know broad but but get Jimmy [TS]

  Carter for sure [TS]

  I mean I think I think price [TS]

  he when he when he when he drinks he [TS]

  probably genuinely felt bad [TS]

  yeah right and and despite George a bush [TS]

  juniors george w bush's like despite him [TS]

  being so terrible you genuinely did get [TS]

  a sense that he that he believed in his [TS]

  that he believed in his religion and he [TS]

  believed in and he was little I kind of [TS]

  get that I get that he has like in our [TS]

  church they had all different like when [TS]

  the kids were in Sunday school so you [TS]

  get the unit sanctuary think everybody [TS]

  goes to then you got sunday school and [TS]

  all the little kids would go to Sunday [TS]

  school for their grade the grown-ups got [TS]

  to choose different groups study groups [TS]

  if you like your classes based upon our [TS]

  demographics based upon partly like what [TS]

  their interest was and so there was like [TS]

  a hip young singles bible study group [TS]

  are there was the like I don't they have [TS]

  had fantastic names like remember [TS]

  lamplighters was one of them they had [TS]

  these great you know New Testament kind [TS]

  of names but but then I remember this [TS]

  one [TS]

  dr. Russell Cottle was the leader of [TS]

  this one and it was like the MIT of [TS]

  adult church classes and he went in [TS]

  there you didn't read the Bible you [TS]

  studied this shit out of the Bible and [TS]

  you brought a fucking concordance like a [TS]

  gentleman and you have to really sit [TS]

  down and talk about in turnover big [TS]

  ideas about you know the stuff that [TS]

  people even outside Christian enjoy [TS]

  talking about the paradox the Trinity [TS]

  like how does that actually work is [TS]

  there is the Holy Spirit really did I [TS]

  mean is he get really one-third of the [TS]

  credit how does this work [TS]

  there's all kinds of fascinating stuff [TS]

  when you get into like you know as I'm [TS]

  sure you must be on some level the [TS]

  discussion of Christianity can be [TS]

  extremely interesting [TS]

  yeah um and so what do i say that [TS]

  because I see jimmy carter going to dr [TS]

  Cotterill's class and I see George W [TS]

  Bush maybe just hanging out by the miss [TS]

  pac-man I don't wonder if he really [TS]

  thought a lot [TS]

  oh i think it's i think i think it's a [TS]

  difference in i think it's a it's the [TS]

  transformation of Christianity right i [TS]

  mean Jimmy Carter was practicing that [TS]

  what we always imagined was the [TS]

  Christian spirit and by the time George [TS]

  Bush got into the church it was much [TS]

  more of this prosperity gospel [TS]

  wasn't his mostly you know what this is [TS]

  so awful to talk about [TS]

  I field now I feel bad but wasn't his [TS]

  partly an arrival out of the drying up [TS]

  well yeah but I mean you dry up and then [TS]

  there if you if you are interested in [TS]

  going the religion route than your you [TS]

  just you dry up and it's like you came [TS]

  up the escalator into the job fair of [TS]

  religions at the convention center you [TS]

  can pick whatever resonates with you [TS]

  right [TS]

  you see he's got the best tip back yeah [TS]

  right and there are plenty of people [TS]

  that dry up and become Buddhists or dry [TS]

  up and go back to being Catholics like [TS]

  they were when they were kids actually [TS]

  there must be a special appeal to a [TS]

  certain kind of slightly moist I'd [TS]

  american christian and i think there is [TS]

  for sure and i think you know i w-was [TS]

  was in every way already pointed at this [TS]

  version of sort of Southern Baptists but [TS]

  whatever that whatever that has morphed [TS]

  into yeah well it's just like if you if [TS]

  you follow the force you know the four [TS]

  steps of like give yourself over and so [TS]

  forth and so on then everything good is [TS]

  going to happen and you don't have any [TS]

  doubt anymore and that's so different [TS]

  from the one that Jimmy Carter practices [TS]

  where they're like really cheering [TS]

  full-time lifestyle guy [TS]

  yeah let me out i'm not doing a lot [TS]

  right are we doing it right or we you [TS]

  know how do we help people i mean that's [TS]

  so different you get such an i mean i [TS]

  don't want to see him just lyin eyes [TS]

  Jimmy Carter but uh fuck that guy but [TS]

  like you know you also really do get the [TS]

  sense that like whatever kind of human [TS]

  he is that he does there's something [TS]

  inside of him where it's probably [TS]

  virtually impossible to tell how much of [TS]

  his personal generosity comes out of his [TS]

  faith and beliefs which comes out of his [TS]

  ethics how much it comes out of his [TS]

  heritage but is something to all of [TS]

  those things that make this vulture on [TS]

  of kindness that I i find very admirable [TS]

  say what you will about the guys [TS]

  presidency and you know reckon the [TS]

  chopper or whatever but like I he just [TS]

  seems like a genuinely good guy [TS]

  yeah and then that's what that's what I [TS]

  mean like like JFK nominally a Catholic [TS]

  we were all terrified of his Catholicism [TS]

  rapist you don't you don't look at paint [TS]

  this in the White House you don't really [TS]

  look at the way he conducted his own [TS]

  life and think well here there's [TS]

  somebody who they're really like really [TS]

  cares [TS]

  about Catholicism yeah i got that I get [TS]

  the feeling rosaries were not on his [TS]

  mind when he was doing what he did and [TS]

  so I look at all the US presidents and [TS]

  all they all saw Billy Graham they all [TS]

  profess to be practicing more or less [TS]

  the same version and i do not see I do [TS]

  not see much evidence of it except in [TS]

  those two cases right Carter as the [TS]

  completely thoughtful Christian and [TS]

  george bush's that completely like [TS]

  unreflective Christian and that's pretty [TS]

  that's pretty phenomenal it's hard to [TS]

  know somebody's heart it's hard to know [TS]

  and you know I don't necessarily feel [TS]

  like we're being kind of unkind but I I [TS]

  don't know I I don't know the answer to [TS]

  that but you know in one of our many [TS]

  lost episodes at the guy I said [TS]

  something to you one time that really [TS]

  means a lot to me which is that I you [TS]

  didn't disagree with this but like [TS]

  there's I i feel like i have these [TS]

  friends where you could be friends with [TS]

  this person for 10 years and kinda only [TS]

  came up once or twice that they even [TS]

  quote unquote go to church but there's [TS]

  something about the way they conduct [TS]

  themselves not is really admirable and [TS]

  kind and gentle and sometimes funny and [TS]

  maybe they drinking playing bands and [TS]

  stuff but there's nothing to what they [TS]

  do that this was about like [TS]

  proselytizing or judging but they're [TS]

  always the ones who show up to help [TS]

  people offer stuff and that's the strain [TS]

  that I seen something like Jimmy Carter [TS]

  and I saw like in the people i want to [TS]

  church with are getting into that topic [TS]

  here no not at all i remember hilarious [TS]

  McConaughey have but we know we had a [TS]

  disagreement one time you and I long [TS]

  time before we started doing this [TS]

  podcast it was one of the it was one of [TS]

  those times when you called me on the [TS]

  phone to yell about the Beatles and we [TS]

  started talking about something else [TS]

  here comes the third rail and it was a [TS]

  it was a it was a it was a real telling [TS]

  moment where I said something like [TS]

  listen I don't think if you're a [TS]

  Christian I don't think you should smoke [TS]

  pot and you said we're talking about and [TS]

  I was like practice what you preach and [TS]

  you were like it has nothing to do with [TS]

  it that another one thing has nothing to [TS]

  do with the other thing sounds like me [TS]

  yeah and I was like I think it has [TS]

  everything to do with that if you if you [TS]

  are if you [TS]

  a Christian you can also be an alcoholic [TS]

  and you're like your bananas two things [TS]

  are unrelated and that we had this we [TS]

  will you yelled at each other for like a [TS]

  half an hour we did [TS]

  yeah i was like no no if you're a [TS]

  christian you god damn drive you should [TS]

  drive the speed limit and you should you [TS]

  know it's kind of a walk the walk to [TS]

  talk to type thing right yeah we're [TS]

  saying like if you're gonna be this you [TS]

  should you should [TS]

  it seems to seem to you that you should [TS]

  also have to be all these other things [TS]

  well I already should show right yeah [TS]

  and it should show in all these other [TS]

  things that you do it in a way it's a [TS]

  kind of it's the argument it's the [TS]

  predestination argument it's the [TS]

  Calvinist kind of like well you can't [TS]

  know whether you're going to have it or [TS]

  not but if you are one of the chosen it [TS]

  would be exhibited in your action and [TS]

  now that's a good time travel movie [TS]

  right then finish [TS]

  they will know we are Christians by our [TS]

  guns by argon [TS]