Roderick on the Line

Ep. 143: "Traffic Cones & Retirees"


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00:00:24   [Music]

00:00:29   hello hi John hi Merlin how's it going

00:00:34   haha i'm going hungry

00:00:38   yeah jerbear worship air terminal and

00:00:44   feed bear woman a bit the knee and

00:00:48   shareholders prayer I gotta grab your

00:00:53   son passed the truck on the way in here

00:00:57   that had a Soundgarden louder than love

00:00:59   bumper sticker and it wasn't it was a

00:01:01   new bumper sticker on an old truck and

00:01:05   it really really put me into a put me

00:01:09   into a spin little when they get you

00:01:11   thinking about

00:01:12   well where you get a new soundgarden

00:01:14   louder than love bumper sticker but you

00:01:16   get that that store at the airport

00:01:18   oh yeah well maybe yeah what doesn't add

00:01:22   some pop uh they were on Sub Pop in the

00:01:25   early days

00:01:26   whoo-hoo yeah maybe maybe that's where

00:01:29   they got it at the side of the airport

00:01:32   ah he said you passed the truck was a

00:01:36   little worried for you for a minute

00:01:38   yeah I know right today we're having a

00:01:40   lot of the way I've been treating early

00:01:44   trucks now you sound sick

00:01:46   oh my god John did you have a bad you

00:01:49   could hang on hang on to your bird flu

00:01:52   um-hm I'm gonna try so hard to ride the

00:01:57   cock button em know you have a cough

00:02:00   button i have a keyboard based hacky

00:02:04   cough button i'm told that I could get a

00:02:06   hardware cough button but you know i

00:02:09   don't know if i'm going to be sticking

00:02:10   with the podcast and stuff all that long

00:02:11   so crazy I know I know don't don't make

00:02:14   like any kind of big investment

00:02:16   what how do you do this keyboard hack

00:02:19   well there are a variety of these are

00:02:22   you really interested in this but are

00:02:23   you kidding this is what our podcast is

00:02:25   all about and all the points we have not

00:02:27   talked on our podcast and so on it's

00:02:30   been so long we've done a lot with a lot

00:02:32   to talk about

00:02:33   let's start with a mute buttons actually

00:02:35   called it's called mute my mic and no

00:02:38   way this is a nap

00:02:39   snap he had a button and add mutant want

00:02:45   some backup app always got in at Mike

00:02:48   purchases and mute

00:02:50   yeah right now you can you level up can

00:02:52   you get it so it doesn't have ads

00:02:54   mhm what's that supported and then

00:02:56   occasionally it pops up a pink noise

00:02:59   uh-huh unless you pay oh that's just one

00:03:01   more fucking real

00:03:03   yeah yeah well you know I my computer is

00:03:05   is an IBM 8086 ok let me double check

00:03:11   check the availability of that

00:03:13   oh yeah this is gonna be tricky I'm

00:03:17   running machine language is it beige on

00:03:20   it is baby I second it is Jane be he

00:03:26   fucked up and I yeah if there's a

00:03:32   shareware version of good

00:03:34   oh yes one-on-one Linus yeah you need to

00:03:37   get the the new the Linus world cd-rom

00:03:40   you can get that over to barnes and

00:03:42   noble and that you going to do a match /

00:03:45   dot DX e dot no space spelled out spread

00:03:53   somebody out here to burn my CD the

00:03:55   other day our friend Adam pepper Annika

00:03:57   said can you just burn me a CD and I was

00:03:59   like what can I and then I was like I

00:04:02   could

00:04:03   yeah but where do you get a CD anymore

00:04:05   and then you then it was like oh wait i

00:04:07   have a USB Drive on my keychain

00:04:09   yeah I was like you know what that crazy

00:04:11   fuck yeah I know I know yet you know

00:04:14   it's funny this amazing really have a

00:04:15   pretty old la by any standard except

00:04:18   perhaps yours i have a very very old

00:04:20   desktop computers from 2006 and and

00:04:25   really true are you really running a

00:04:27   2006 I'm so hard when I hate buying

00:04:30   computers but but how does it have I

00:04:32   mean Apple by design makes their

00:04:35   upgrades kill old computer yes

00:04:39   mm that's running some very old

00:04:40   hacked-up software that I'm not proud of

00:04:42   it but you've hacked a little got a hack

00:04:45   but in a you know what's funny is when I

00:04:47   bought this is even as recently took a

00:04:49   year before my daughter was born about

00:04:51   this computer in that age I had the

00:04:53   presence of mind to buy i bought a mac

00:04:58   pro with two DVD read-only drives

00:05:03   excuse me to CD CD because you have

00:05:07   these dvds to but it does it right i

00:05:09   have two optical drives for reading

00:05:11   discs because I don't know what I guess

00:05:12   at some point I was thinking I might

00:05:13   want to watch two movies at once haha

00:05:16   it's so bizarre i don't know it's

00:05:19   already feels like a million years away

00:05:21   i've got a blu-ray burner and Ripper

00:05:24   thing that's kind of janky but that

00:05:26   works but I can't believe how rarely

00:05:27   it's almost like a fax machine now how

00:05:29   rarely i have to make you know DVD or CD

00:05:33   dubs Yeah Yeah right why why would you

00:05:39   because it's it was a mean it's funny

00:05:41   because it used to be such I mean I can

00:05:43   remember when you could first make cds

00:05:45   on a Mac it seemed amazing because CD

00:05:50   was the coin of the realm

00:05:52   I mean that's how if you could make

00:05:54   something that played like a CD that you

00:05:55   dropped into a CD players like the most

00:05:57   amazing thing in the world better but

00:05:58   about to

00:05:59   well absolutely of course you know

00:06:01   you've given me stuff in the past on CDs

00:06:03   that you know this unreleased and things

00:06:04   like that but it's funny how now that

00:06:07   feels like such an unnecessary middle

00:06:09   step because what you gonna do as soon

00:06:11   as you get the CD or into your dripping

00:06:13   now you're gonna rip it and try to get

00:06:15   it back it just seems it seems so

00:06:17   bizarre

00:06:18   it's like you know like I say it's like

00:06:19   anybody wants you to fax some forms it

00:06:21   feels so bizarre to me you're talking

00:06:23   about my entire life now because every

00:06:26   week somebody wants me to effects on the

00:06:27   fucking form i know i am I remember the

00:06:30   first mac i saw the the ones that look

00:06:32   like cough drops

00:06:34   oh yeah imac the imac the front windows

00:06:36   first came out the first 1i saw did not

00:06:38   have a seed be player have it all right

00:06:44   oh no we didn't have to see didn't have

00:06:45   a fighter I've had a CD reader but he

00:06:48   couldn't write to it and it didn't have

00:06:50   a

00:06:50   uh-oh one of those little mini disc

00:06:52   fucking christ and I was like well how

00:06:55   do you write stuff to it

00:06:58   how do you how do you how do you like

00:06:59   and they the owner of this particular

00:07:01   machine said well they don't there isn't

00:07:03   a method to do that I bet they very

00:07:06   patiently roll their eyes to explain to

00:07:08   poor John what it's like to be alive in

00:07:10   the 20th century and I i was astonished

00:07:15   that you would spend that much money to

00:07:17   buy a thing that you could not you

00:07:20   couldn't export from you are not alone

00:07:23   that was a very controversial choice and

00:07:25   over the years has been a number of

00:07:27   things that Apple has done now that

00:07:29   we're doing a technology pockets because

00:07:30   number things apples as done that have

00:07:33   been very controversial because if you

00:07:37   know for most of us growing up that was

00:07:39   that was one of the primary opiate

00:07:41   getting a car without a steering wheel

00:07:42   for a car without a without a what

00:07:47   windshield

00:07:49   I mean trunk cup holder but just the

00:07:51   ability I mean the whole point was we

00:07:53   always did everything with disks and

00:07:54   that seemed crazy and now today it's

00:07:56   getting even crazier because with the

00:07:59   laptops they make the one of the

00:08:02   constraining factors to how thin the

00:08:04   laptop can be is consistently those

00:08:06   ports on the side all ports right you

00:08:08   don't want ports because everything's

00:08:09   included in the cloud but like you know

00:08:12   but I mean like when they started the

00:08:13   first time like now you do not get a

00:08:15   optical drive the on a laptop and also

00:08:20   it's a huge source of power consumption

00:08:23   alright huh and then for example like an

00:08:26   ethernet cable like a now youyou the

00:08:29   they're too thin to have an ethernet

00:08:31   port right so you have to have USB but

00:08:34   even USB is kind of you know is is

00:08:37   pretty thick right there

00:08:40   I mean is I'm too thin for an ethernet

00:08:42   cable give me look at you you look

00:08:43   fantastic how we should get Gruber and

00:08:46   siracusa to come on this podcast and we

00:08:48   could talk about Apple don't give it

00:08:50   away

00:08:51   got plans I'm not saying anything

00:08:55   yeah we should because you know boy

00:08:57   there's just not enough what about the

00:08:58   Apple watch John are you excited about

00:09:00   the Apple watch in

00:09:01   I really am I saw a guy the other day uh

00:09:04   where was I oh I was at the grocery

00:09:06   store and the guy that was checking me

00:09:08   out was wearing a giant gold crown on a

00:09:11   chain and some behind like a regal crown

00:09:16   well it wasn't like it wasn't like a

00:09:17   three-dimensional crown it was a

00:09:18   two-dimensional crown and there was a

00:09:20   part of me that wanted to ask if it was

00:09:22   about Ethiopia and the part of me that

00:09:24   wanted to ask it was about reggae and

00:09:27   then a paddle and then the George part

00:09:29   of me that just realized that I was not

00:09:32   meant to ask what the crown wasn't

00:09:34   really well i will give you wear a crown

00:09:36   on a change or you're really asking

00:09:37   people your kind of throwing it out

00:09:39   there that you want people to talk about

00:09:40   it

00:09:41   the guy at the grocery store was sending

00:09:43   a very palpable do not engage me in

00:09:46   conversation vibe

00:09:48   yeah so I was like this is you know it's

00:09:51   unusual in the in the 21st century to

00:09:54   have a customer service experience where

00:09:56   the person on the other end is sending

00:09:59   out a very capable but not engage about

00:10:04   vibe all-too-rare if you ask me tender

00:10:07   and so I was like I respect your

00:10:09   capability and i'm going to just we're

00:10:12   just going to share this time together

00:10:13   as two men who are not making chitchat

00:10:15   even though you are wearing a giant gold

00:10:18   crown on a giant cold chain but then on

00:10:22   closer inspection so I'm looking at the

00:10:24   crowd and I'm like oh boy I really want

00:10:25   to talk about this crime but he really

00:10:27   doesn't want me to talk he might want to

00:10:29   talk about it but he doesn't want to

00:10:30   talk about it with me and so then i'm

00:10:34   looking at i'm i'm scanning him like

00:10:36   well let's see is there any other a way

00:10:38   i can get engaged this person

00:10:40   conversation and then he's wearing some

00:10:42   giant technology watch I was like oh

00:10:45   fuck

00:10:46   now i really want to talk to him about

00:10:48   the watch and maybe that's the inroad

00:10:52   into then afterward chatting about the

00:10:54   watch then be like so the crown who but

00:10:57   at that and at that point I kind of

00:10:59   looked up hopefully at him like not

00:11:01   something that isn't the ground to talk

00:11:03   about its the watch and he continued to

00:11:08   be very capable and very uninterested

00:11:13   communicating and so I was like all

00:11:14   right I'm gonna let the watch and the

00:11:16   crown just be is private business

00:11:20   I'm gonna be over here in my private

00:11:22   business I should be thinking about

00:11:24   something else anyway what am I trying

00:11:25   to talk to this guy for I should be

00:11:27   thinking about big deep thoughts

00:11:28   yeah and so I just left the left the

00:11:31   whole thing in my past I wouldn't even

00:11:34   thought about it again haven't brought

00:11:35   up the apple watch em and the band this

00:11:39   guy's watch i don't i don't think it was

00:11:41   an Apple watch but it was Ben what's

00:11:43   called a pebble watch em pebble is a

00:11:46   company that makes it

00:11:47   I'm ungainly large silly watch i have

00:11:50   noticed about nokia that whatever apple

00:11:53   announces something nokia comes out with

00:11:55   the slightly bigger maybe more capable

00:11:59   and yet still less desirable version of

00:12:03   it right away

00:12:03   that's a core competency exam sounds

00:12:06   pretty good at that too samsung right so

00:12:07   it could have been one of those but it

00:12:09   was like you know it was a watch where

00:12:10   where it by its blankness but it's by

00:12:15   like the empty screen it suggested an

00:12:20   infinite capability right here's the

00:12:23   watch

00:12:24   it's infinitely capable perhaps he could

00:12:26   be a good video conference with his you

00:12:29   know with his handler he Kurds he could

00:12:34   like a great real-time feedback on how

00:12:37   well he's doing his grocery tasks

00:12:39   mhm yeah I could that's right I could I

00:12:41   could I could use the app bump you can't

00:12:44   focus i wanna lose or possibly beans i

00:12:47   could uh let's see i bet i bet he could

00:12:50   hack into a mainframe if his if his team

00:12:54   you know encounter a firewall that

00:12:57   someone could like rewrite the

00:12:59   encryption right now we gotta rewrite

00:13:01   the encryption rewrite the encryption

00:13:02   and hacking the mainframe right there

00:13:04   from his watch

00:13:05   I just I felt like wow its infinite

00:13:08   possibilities and I'm sure if he touched

00:13:09   it and showed me what it did it like he

00:13:12   could scroll through his I photo

00:13:15   and he can take it can either be a clock

00:13:17   or can be message for you told someone

00:13:19   he's at work right are you i am bored

00:13:22   you can get those those bumps where it's

00:13:25   like today at two o'clock

00:13:28   you are scheduled to do a podcast oh my

00:13:30   god you remind me of something is it um

00:13:34   listen we're gonna put this out today

00:13:36   because we need to put on a show

00:13:37   so what we talked a little bit about

00:13:38   what's what's been happening what we've

00:13:40   been doing

00:13:40   third time's yeah let's talk about

00:13:41   exciting we're honored went on a cruise

00:13:43   we have we talked we only talked about

00:13:45   that have we ever talked about the

00:13:46   cruise

00:13:47   yeah well I want to get to that but one

00:13:49   thing was as is you know I'm in flying

00:13:52   out of Fort Lauderdale for Fort

00:13:55   Lauderdale first I learned very small

00:13:56   airport not enough to do their smaller

00:13:58   part there are live birds in New I'm not

00:14:01   not tame birds but wild bird so tomorrow

00:14:04   was there any seem nice did you meet Tom

00:14:07   Arnold the for my lady my lady saw him

00:14:09   at the place where you buy water and

00:14:10   candy and he said he was up being very

00:14:12   very nice with people it's nice to hear

00:14:13   what matters is a nice well so we long

00:14:16   story short where you know everybody's

00:14:18   on this cruise was that arrived that day

00:14:20   at the end of the cruise is gonna be

00:14:21   flying out of FLL which is as I think I

00:14:24   mentioned a very small airport lot of

00:14:27   things could have been playing better on

00:14:28   our part there was miscommunications

00:14:30   long story short we ended up getting

00:14:31   there at I think about ten in the

00:14:34   morning

00:14:35   now you can I raced off the boat and got

00:14:37   immediately to the airport and then we

00:14:39   flew out of eight o'clock that night so

00:14:41   we had we had a nice long day to really

00:14:43   take in the airport whoo-hoo and

00:14:46   Atlantis you know it was it was kind of

00:14:49   a trial but did you go to chilis to go

00:14:51   to chilis to twice I've treated my

00:14:54   family to chilis to twice each plate was

00:14:56   more disappointing than the last at-bat

00:14:59   Chili's too and i remember i remember i

00:15:01   ordered something and it came with like

00:15:02   a single kernel of corn on them at the

00:15:08   edge of the crack corn planter

00:15:09   look i don't care i think it was the

00:15:11   salsa maybe uh huh yeah well it's you

00:15:14   know they've got they've got about 850

00:15:16   drinks in a microwave oven and that's

00:15:18   the chilis to no place else is chilis

00:15:21   literally well anyway let the funny part

00:15:23   was stuck there and you know we're

00:15:25   trying to you know

00:15:26   like it was being considering everything

00:15:28   was being very patient considering but

00:15:30   you know we sit there and we found a

00:15:32   little kind of like quiet area where

00:15:33   there were too many people around but

00:15:35   one of the things I don't know why

00:15:37   mention this is you know people love to

00:15:39   talk on the phone at the airport and I I

00:15:43   just it's only in airports that I really

00:15:45   realize I feel like how much most other

00:15:49   people talk on their phone more than i

00:15:51   do and that will by which i mean they

00:15:53   make a lot more calls than i do but they

00:15:56   talk on the phone for a very very very

00:16:00   long time often very loudly much longer

00:16:04   than i do and it's amazing because I'll

00:16:05   do anything I can to try and get phone

00:16:08   calls with people talk to you talk to

00:16:09   clients but you know if you get off the

00:16:11   phone

00:16:12   that's what the goal of getting on the

00:16:13   phone is to get off the phone call it a

00:16:16   hundred percent

00:16:16   I mean I i totally agree but there's

00:16:18   this one conversation it was so uh it

00:16:23   was so boring haha and so long and

00:16:28   here's the conversation is a woman there

00:16:29   is going to fly outs of course like

00:16:30   everybody in an airport she has to

00:16:32   explain everything about what she's

00:16:34   doing and what she's going to be doing

00:16:35   she's explaining that she's sitting at

00:16:37   the airport calling you did was let you

00:16:40   know what she's doing she's at the

00:16:41   airport just gonna she's gonna fly out

00:16:43   later but for right now you know she's

00:16:45   going to call and check in

00:16:47   oh and it became apparent inform some

00:16:49   time that this woman was talking to her

00:16:51   young daughter a daughter maybe high

00:16:54   school age but around you know late high

00:16:56   school age and the entire conversation

00:16:59   you can tell it no matter what the girl

00:17:01   said the mother had some really annoying

00:17:05   karma suck response to everything that

00:17:08   her dog

00:17:08   oh yes like and I'm so first forms that

00:17:11   God please never let me be like this

00:17:13   well you know if you bring the grades up

00:17:15   and

00:17:16   and it goes on but then eventually once

00:17:20   they've gotten through all the things

00:17:21   that they knew they had to talk about

00:17:22   that the girl had done wrong

00:17:24   the mother started asking her these kind

00:17:25   of elliptical questions about how she's

00:17:27   been spending her time and it became

00:17:29   apparent that before the call the mother

00:17:31   had gone through every piece of social

00:17:33   media that the girl was involved with em

00:17:36   and was good was now basically examining

00:17:39   our right checking up based on what you

00:17:41   already knew

00:17:41   yeah and she would only let out enough

00:17:43   information about a certain thing and

00:17:45   then wait for the daughter to kind of

00:17:46   offer something up and it went on for an

00:17:48   hour

00:17:50   wow yeah so we're not let that look for

00:17:53   now that's parenting right there that's

00:17:55   like pow

00:17:56   oh my god it's you know that's it was

00:18:00   rough

00:18:02   I'm so sorry you're not it's alright you

00:18:04   know it's it's what he can do

00:18:05   it'sit's travel but you know at the end

00:18:07   of the trip especially your kind of like

00:18:08   okay I'm really ready to not be on a

00:18:11   trip anymore

00:18:12   yeah right get me home right and and

00:18:14   instead you are you're learning about

00:18:16   people you don't want to learn about oh

00:18:18   don't ask me about the united lounge

00:18:20   buddy whoa i heard you know I so full

00:18:24   disclosure I showed up at this Airport

00:18:26   this fort lauderdale airport several

00:18:29   hours later

00:18:31   yeah for a flight that was scheduled to

00:18:33   leave you know at what six a flight that

00:18:39   will end and when I left this and so I

00:18:41   show up the airport and Merlin is still

00:18:42   there with his whole family and then my

00:18:45   flight leaves on time and Merlin is

00:18:47   still there when I by Merlin so it was

00:18:52   it was there's tons of snow in Boston

00:18:53   there's been huge delays and also it was

00:18:56   a day that are the cruise ship defecates

00:18:58   all the people out of its bowels and

00:19:00   send them on their way through this tiny

00:19:01   little airport

00:19:02   plus there's been like some kind of

00:19:03   crazy bike race that day and I just been

00:19:06   kind of a clusterfuck all around for

00:19:07   everybody

00:19:08   yeah the place was full of people from

00:19:10   the cruise like standing around charging

00:19:12   things and talking

00:19:13   well this is the funny thing about now

00:19:14   having been on i am i'm not sure whether

00:19:18   i'm proud to say i guess i'm proud to

00:19:21   say hello

00:19:23   uh-huh so there's an asterix and there

00:19:25   somewhere

00:19:26   but proud to say that I've done seven

00:19:28   pleasure cruises now and and one of the

00:19:34   insights i have gleaned is that the

00:19:37   first time you get off a cruise and you

00:19:40   try and make it through fort lauderdale

00:19:42   or through orlando port whatever the

00:19:46   freaking port up there is called try to

00:19:49   make it through to the airport you have

00:19:51   that feeling of like oh my god an entire

00:19:53   cruise ship just emptied out and now

00:19:55   this town is trying to deal with this

00:19:57   like amazing like unprecedented influx

00:20:00   of people it was it it's like that you

00:20:03   know in the beginning of godfather to

00:20:04   all the immigrants are like standing

00:20:06   around you know we're going to move and

00:20:09   it and the guys talking to you and you

00:20:11   only speak Italian and many stamps you

00:20:13   on the forehead and that's right let's

00:20:14   see what I said was in the room and

00:20:16   swing your legs and sing yourself yeah

00:20:17   butBut what I have what I realized over

00:20:20   time is that every single day in fort

00:20:23   lauderdale five cruise ship stock and

00:20:25   empty out which as in our case have

00:20:27   something four thousand passengers

00:20:29   yeah but this happens every single day

00:20:32   and has four for 15 years so so the the

00:20:37   the fact is that the all the whole

00:20:40   purpose of the fort lauderdale airport

00:20:42   is too is it is like the it's the lower

00:20:46   intestine of this whole process and all

00:20:49   the last piece of the bow for that and

00:20:51   it's just squeezing these poops through

00:20:54   like it here comes a cruise ship and

00:20:57   bloor and it just like squeezes them out

00:21:00   into their airplanes like there's no

00:21:02   purpose like all the roads in fort

00:21:04   lauderdale that whole container yard all

00:21:08   those different people with with like

00:21:10   different security badges that are

00:21:12   yelling at you when you walk out of the

00:21:13   cruise ship terminal the whole process

00:21:16   that happens five times a day every day

00:21:19   and so so the first time you do it

00:21:22   you're like well I understand why these

00:21:23   people seem incompetent and why this

00:21:25   process so janky because how how would

00:21:28   you process 4,000 people all at once

00:21:30   mr. just a rotten gee I mean I felt it

00:21:32   you know we did like the lifeboat drills

00:21:34   on the first day we go out you learn

00:21:36   your lifeboat is and it's just pretty

00:21:37   perfunctory but it's enough to at least

00:21:38   know where to go

00:21:39   yeah and even that whole thing was

00:21:41   pretty well-organized the all you gotta

00:21:43   do is get people on a boat but on the

00:21:45   morning the debarking whatever you call

00:21:47   of pooping out the passengers it started

00:21:50   at like my like seven in the morning and

00:21:52   went on to like noon because there's so

00:21:55   many people and so many bags so much

00:21:57   custom so much to coordinate it takes

00:21:58   hours and hours and hours to get people

00:22:00   off in a peaceful fashion

00:22:02   yeah it's crazy except if you did it

00:22:07   every day in which case it would

00:22:10   presumably overtime stop being crazy and

00:22:13   start being a matter of course and yet

00:22:16   it never ever is right what like we got

00:22:19   off the boat and were there and that

00:22:20   they're sending us through customs and

00:22:22   it's like hey you guys know at a certain

00:22:24   hour

00:22:25   you can't miss the boat here it comes

00:22:27   right here comes at a certain hour

00:22:29   you're gonna have 4,000 people that want

00:22:31   to get off this boat all the same time

00:22:32   so how it is nobody there's nobody is

00:22:35   happy about having to wait about any

00:22:37   aspect of right i mean if you knew that

00:22:39   this was going to happen

00:22:40   how would you design a system to

00:22:42   accommodate it and and yet every time

00:22:45   ever and I'm sure this is true of every

00:22:47   ship because it's been true for all

00:22:49   seven boats that I've gotten off of

00:22:50   every time it seems like the people in

00:22:53   the people there that are running the

00:22:55   system are like what

00:22:57   oh shit is that boat here already oh

00:23:00   fuck well we should open two lanes and I

00:23:05   at least two lanes ever you're right

00:23:08   then um there's a number of apertures

00:23:10   that could have been a lot lawyer at

00:23:12   every step away

00:23:13   like for instance the global entry

00:23:17   system which the customs and and TSA

00:23:22   have spent millions and millions of

00:23:25   dollars implementing this global entry

00:23:26   system which allows passengers who are

00:23:30   in the program including myself to speed

00:23:34   through customs other re-entry into port

00:23:38   or into a into the contract because

00:23:39   you've been vetted and checked out

00:23:41   internet you're not risky

00:23:43   yeah and you're you you you you have

00:23:45   assured the government that you do not

00:23:47   intend to bring any any vermin-infested

00:23:51   breadfruit back into the country and

00:23:54   then immediately throw it on the ground

00:23:56   like you you eat use you you have proved

00:24:00   to them that you are just a normal

00:24:01   person who is neither a drug smuggler

00:24:04   nor an al-qaeda operatives and so you do

00:24:08   not need to be retina scanned again by

00:24:13   spino by some person who can pass the

00:24:16   job interview in florida for the first

00:24:18   security job and yet the first time that

00:24:21   I i arrived at the terminal on my first

00:24:24   cruise ever i was like where's your

00:24:25   global entry system and they're like we

00:24:27   don't have those and cruise terminals I

00:24:29   was like really it's just the simplest

00:24:31   thing you just put it's like a couple of

00:24:33   atms over on the side and then ten

00:24:36   percent of of this job would go away

00:24:39   nope we just don't have them and so for

00:24:41   seven years or five years I've been

00:24:43   waiting for them to and they just just

00:24:45   not a thing I mean they have been it

00:24:49   would benefit them it's not something

00:24:50   we're saying i want to be a fancy lad

00:24:51   that it's something that would help the

00:24:53   entire process it's part of the system

00:24:54   that they've already built for exactly

00:24:57   this job and they I'm sure they have

00:24:58   global entry at the boise international

00:25:02   airport for the 15 people that come from

00:25:05   Calgary everyday on the but you know in

00:25:08   a javelin beaver they probably have a

00:25:11   global entry kiosk there but for the

00:25:14   cruise ship terminal where five ships

00:25:16   disgorge 4,000 passengers each day right

00:25:20   right

00:25:21   they do not what they have there is like

00:25:23   some traffic cones some retirees who

00:25:27   liked who they've pinned you know some

00:25:30   Western Airlines wings on their shirt

00:25:32   and said you're out you're in charge of

00:25:34   security and and then you know we're all

00:25:37   just standing in line as though it's

00:25:39   never happened before it's just

00:25:41   fascinating is that is exactly right

00:25:42   it's funny cuz you know and having gone

00:25:44   through customs and coming in and out of

00:25:47   other countries via plane you know if

00:25:50   there's something about it

00:25:51   it's very serious and we do that in an

00:25:55   airport there's all kinds of like you

00:25:57   know it's not really i want to say tense

00:26:00   not just personally test but it's like

00:26:02   you have to take this really seriously

00:26:03   like I really want to feel your format

00:26:05   right everybody here is very

00:26:06   professional

00:26:08   they're they're moving you know pace

00:26:09   because the number one way that people

00:26:11   bring AK forty-sevens into the United

00:26:14   States is via a klm flight from

00:26:19   amsterdam yeah for me coming from can

00:26:21   now I'm gonna have some guns but the but

00:26:23   the end of the line is obviously it's

00:26:25   very long but it's sensible as it can be

00:26:29   understood and i don't mean this is a

00:26:32   complaint except to say this giant

00:26:34   hanger that you go through when you get

00:26:37   off the get the boat shuttle down and

00:26:39   you go into the longest line you've ever

00:26:41   been in your life but in part that's

00:26:43   funny about it is it really seems like

00:26:45   the regular building wasn't available

00:26:47   that day yes that's exactly right and

00:26:49   you know you know that that building was

00:26:52   built for no other purpose

00:26:54   yeah it yet it feels repurposed like you

00:26:57   that they take you by making you walk

00:26:59   through rows of chairs in a waiting room

00:27:01   at first but Diana weird get any going

00:27:05   to wait another line that it's not a

00:27:06   complaint accept it is much just saying

00:27:08   it's funny that that amount of pure

00:27:10   infrastructure that has to be dealt with

00:27:11   like at least once a week and I'm

00:27:13   guessing a lot more it seems like it

00:27:15   would be a little bit better thought out

00:27:17   and then you get to the end eurozone

00:27:18   this line is really long because there's

00:27:19   like three people take care of this

00:27:22   yeah and they're mad the whole system

00:27:24   and then and then you do you get to the

00:27:26   fort lauderdale airport it's like oh how

00:27:28   how would this what would we

00:27:31   how would we ever have imagined the

00:27:33   4,000 people descend on this airport all

00:27:35   at once and and that and there this is

00:27:37   the crazy thing because the first couple

00:27:39   of times I did it I really did I really

00:27:41   was sympathetic to the whole I was

00:27:44   sympathetic to Fort Lauderdale right

00:27:46   like also you know fort lauderdale

00:27:48   that's like the king of spring break

00:27:49   like that their whole city is about true

00:27:51   people moving through their city for

00:27:53   just a little bit of time I 80,000

00:27:55   people a day probably come there right

00:27:57   now starting right

00:27:58   now so I I end and the funny thing is i

00:28:02   have found the town of Fort Lauderdale

00:28:05   to be actually fairly charming in the

00:28:08   sense that you know those art galleries

00:28:10   that sell like like maybe half scale but

00:28:16   like just big enough that you think like

00:28:18   is that life size but it's not it's just

00:28:20   slightly scaled-down maybe maybe maybe

00:28:23   one half for one-third scale a bronze

00:28:27   statues of an elf riding a dragon on

00:28:31   slow kinda like the sort of thing you

00:28:34   see kind your Union Square lots of

00:28:36   things in bisque or lots of you know

00:28:39   what I mean there's lots and lots of

00:28:39   figurines not that could be magical

00:28:42   creatures but that's it yeah that that

00:28:45   people must really want to buy those

00:28:47   when they travel well the thing is and

00:28:48   then you look at it it's 75 thousand

00:28:50   dollars and you're like this is an

00:28:52   incredible this this this statue of this

00:28:56   elf riding a dragon on top of the globe

00:28:58   made out of the actual bronze that is

00:29:02   that stands eight feet tall and cost

00:29:05   seventy-five thousand dollars this is a

00:29:07   thing that some guy I don't doubt that

00:29:11   someone made it i don't doubt I I don't

00:29:13   for a second question the impulse of

00:29:15   someone making it right but then that

00:29:18   that every other step of the way like it

00:29:20   got transported here by someone and now

00:29:22   at an art gallery owner thought to make

00:29:26   it his centerpiece and people come by

00:29:29   and look at it until one day somebody

00:29:31   says I must have that doesn't like an

00:29:33   oligarch maybe some students i must have

00:29:35   the self

00:29:36   yes right but an oligarchy comes through

00:29:38   Fort Lauderdale on his way our to

00:29:40   vacation and he's like this is amazing

00:29:42   I've must have this in my mention dragon

00:29:45   is exquisite

00:29:46   I am the dragon or i am the else

00:29:49   and-and-and-and Fort Lauderdale is full

00:29:52   of that kind of art gallery not just

00:29:54   Thomas Kinkade The Painter of Light but

00:29:57   all of Thomas Kincaid spiritual and

00:30:00   artistic you know like peers other

00:30:04   painters of lights painters of dark

00:30:06   painters of painters that use both light

00:30:10   and dark in their paintings

00:30:11   and and so the town there's there's not

00:30:15   a lot to recommend the town you would

00:30:17   think until you take the whole of Fort

00:30:19   Lauderdale into your into your

00:30:21   conscience conscious

00:30:24   yeah and then I i found it remarkable

00:30:26   and wonderful

00:30:27   yeah it's a literacy what you're

00:30:29   describing first of all I mean there is

00:30:31   this certain kind of its you know this

00:30:35   is what travel does it exposed us to

00:30:36   things you never see your things you

00:30:37   never think about and for me that is the

00:30:39   partly the wide world of what people

00:30:43   perceive of as high-end art the receipt

00:30:47   I an art that was on display on this

00:30:49   cruise for the big auction the big art

00:30:52   auction was some of the most amazing

00:30:54   stuff I've ever seen in my life because

00:30:56   it was kind of like the baby had the

00:30:58   aesthetic yeah that's what you're

00:30:59   describing is this is common as you know

00:31:01   in San Francisco there's gosh Las Vegas

00:31:03   everywhere you go in Las Vegas you see

00:31:05   this kind of epic like beyond kitschy

00:31:08   art but that's meant to be very very

00:31:11   high-end the painting is never just a

00:31:12   painting it's got like inch thick

00:31:14   impasto like you can practically feel it

00:31:16   no that's you know here's here seven

00:31:19   seven paintings of Muhammad Ali and

00:31:20   garfield the cat or something but it

00:31:22   takes it has this the aesthetic of like

00:31:26   sky mall in some ways that kind of like

00:31:29   you know you can have a zombie crawling

00:31:30   out of the ground on in your backyard or

00:31:32   something like that but it has that like

00:31:34   the phrase on a tree face and yeah but

00:31:36   that over real aesthetic but a little

00:31:40   cartoony and much bigger than life and

00:31:43   insanely expensive given how like

00:31:45   ridiculously tacky it is but it's

00:31:47   everywhere people must be buying it to

00:31:49   remember when we were kids you know so

00:31:52   much of so much of what we experienced

00:31:54   when we were kids was the hangover of

00:31:58   the sixties oh god yes it's like the

00:32:00   Spencer Gifts kind of effect

00:32:02   yeah yeah the the sort of all the stuff

00:32:04   all the furniture in the waiting rooms

00:32:08   of places all the art if you really was

00:32:10   stuck in what felt like a five or eight

00:32:12   year aesthetic of everything's kind of

00:32:15   brown and orange segments are pretty and

00:32:19   mentally

00:32:20   maybe the some weird dark wood remember

00:32:23   I I

00:32:24   for whatever reason and this may just be

00:32:25   my experience but but I remember feeling

00:32:29   like well first of all spanish spain had

00:32:35   been had been very popular sometime in

00:32:36   the fifties and so there was a lot of

00:32:39   Tory adorar there was a lot of heavy

00:32:43   Spanish likely neo Spanish looking

00:32:46   furniture in places but but a kind of a

00:32:50   lot of this like thick painted this is

00:32:57   like super thick coatings of yeah I'm

00:33:01   like.he like oversized wooden chairs

00:33:04   right but the aesthetic was meant to be

00:33:06   at once opulent and rustic like not nice

00:33:09   that's been putting this poorly but but

00:33:11   that feeling of like the word customized

00:33:13   antiqued might even it was meant to feel

00:33:15   very old and pretentious and rich

00:33:18   ya like like a arm like maybe triggers

00:33:23   were everywhere that story was really

00:33:24   where

00:33:25   yeah but but also also uh it was

00:33:28   supposed to be is it like hacienda or or

00:33:33   Spanish it wasn't spanish colonial it

00:33:35   was like it was Spain not not Spain in

00:33:39   the in the New World Spain like in a

00:33:42   zorro zorro thank you but it but sorrow

00:33:45   was was was latin america was a zero

00:33:49   most takes place in California but of

00:33:51   course you know goes to school as a kid

00:33:52   in in Spain and it's all that aesthetic

00:33:55   is very much in place

00:33:56   yes Ryan Zorro it's hard to put a finger

00:33:58   on but I get I know exactly what you

00:34:00   mean all kinds of Latin influence but

00:34:03   also Italian like that italian

00:34:05   restaurant kind of feeling but there's a

00:34:07   few things like whether it was like an

00:34:09   El Cid or a donkey OD oh yeah figure

00:34:13   events but very but but like it should

00:34:16   look old but it should also feel very

00:34:18   luxe lady make locks

00:34:21   yeah old luck Spanish Italian minutes so

00:34:24   I feel like I feel like that when I was

00:34:27   a kid I remember you know we thought we

00:34:30   talked to everybody so fascinated and

00:34:32   fixated on mid-century modern

00:34:34   and imagining that they're all going to

00:34:37   live in like in the glass house with no

00:34:40   decoration and just these really minimal

00:34:43   low-slung couches and chairs but they

00:34:46   forget but i think i think my generation

00:34:48   my parents thought that looked cheap I

00:34:50   don't they thought it was that it would

00:34:51   buy something very inexpensive that

00:34:53   looked fake luxurious all of our

00:34:55   furniture was way over sized for the

00:34:56   room it was in a way too many borough

00:34:59   key rococo curlicues I mean very few

00:35:03   things had right angles it was it was

00:35:04   all just bombastic right it was Liberace

00:35:08   furniture and and people forget that

00:35:12   mid-century the mid-century aesthetic

00:35:15   was much more Liberace Liberace humping

00:35:19   el cid that it was Don Draper like

00:35:24   laying on a on a low-slung challenge yet

00:35:27   I mean what-what people now think of as

00:35:29   mid-century modern like super cheap

00:35:31   versions of stuff like that what you

00:35:33   would get from S&H Green Stamps it

00:35:34   wasn't what you would use to appoint

00:35:36   your house if you are now becoming lower

00:35:37   middle-class person but so I feel like

00:35:39   you want your I feel exactly your

00:35:42   experience of cruise art which is that

00:35:45   it is the spiritual descendant of that

00:35:49   like opulent like fake opulent a some

00:35:54   vaguely Mediterranean aesthetic that I

00:35:59   look at a time just like this is one

00:36:01   step away from doe eyed children

00:36:05   you're absolutely right and he's funny

00:36:07   shit and also think about how hot most

00:36:09   of the colors are in these in these

00:36:10   paintings they're always and again i

00:36:12   can't get away from thinking about the

00:36:14   skymall thinking about when I was a kid

00:36:17   with Spencer's but also there's one

00:36:19   store called Gallagher's they were

00:36:20   basically like head shops you remember

00:36:22   the stores in malls when we were kids

00:36:24   right yeah we're kind of like it was a

00:36:26   headshop head shop but started as a

00:36:29   headshot mostly blacks whites regular

00:36:31   store peaches sure but in these didn't

00:36:34   you get your posters you get your you

00:36:36   know slightly off color like you know

00:36:38   bachelor party gifts there you can get

00:36:41   the little balls the clock into each

00:36:42   other and go back and forth you know

00:36:45   what I bought one of those mmm

00:36:46   one of my favorite of all time things

00:36:49   and I got this in probably 78 it was I

00:36:54   maybe three foot tall like punching

00:36:58   dummy remember these the whatever that

00:37:01   there was like a stress and admit to be

00:37:03   a stress reducer yeah stress reducer was

00:37:05   it was waiting on the bottom

00:37:07   uh-huh it was blow up i'm sure look like

00:37:10   a clown or something like that was in

00:37:11   the shape of a it was in the shape of a

00:37:14   schmoo except it was called qik Tricky

00:37:18   Dick and it had it had Richard Nixon it

00:37:23   was Richard Nixon a screen-printed on it

00:37:26   goes running back like like his face was

00:37:29   from facing you and then the back of his

00:37:32   head was you know they had gone to the

00:37:34   trouble of doing two designs and it was

00:37:36   a bloody basically a three-foot-tall

00:37:38   blow-up know maybe taller three

00:37:40   three-and-a-half feet blow-up doll of

00:37:43   Richard Nixon that you were meant to

00:37:45   kick when you were mad wow and i got it

00:37:49   at a head shop in the mall and I was so

00:37:51   proud of it I got it had shopping mall

00:37:53   in 1978 politically relevant though and

00:37:56   I was so proud of this thing and I kept

00:37:59   it i did it was displayed prominently in

00:38:00   my room I haven't thought about that in

00:38:03   years my god i I've got a lot of posters

00:38:05   i would buy presents for like mothers

00:38:08   day I would like world's greatest mom

00:38:10   figurines from my mom there but there

00:38:13   was a kind of over but you can

00:38:14   understand the overriding aesthetic

00:38:15   though was I mean tackies the wrong word

00:38:20   for it

00:38:20   it was it's so like insane you know you

00:38:22   joke a lot about like the app class guys

00:38:24   having a poster with a girl in a

00:38:26   Lamborghini the only thing that got in

00:38:27   there 15 million-dollar house it's not

00:38:30   so far from that kind of aesthetic in

00:38:31   some ways though where it's like I need

00:38:33   to go buy some things to put in here to

00:38:35   make this place classy

00:38:36   Yeah right right right right like yeah I

00:38:39   i can I know I i know enough i know just

00:38:42   enough to know that my 14,000 square

00:38:45   foot house looks unlived in with you

00:38:50   because I only live in the kitchen in

00:38:52   the TV room like III had a pretty good

00:38:55   friend who made some rock and roll money

00:38:58   and he had never you know he lived with

00:39:00   his parents until he was in a rock band

00:39:02   and then and then all the sudden had a

00:39:07   bad at all son was rich and he bought a

00:39:09   I bought a pretty big house for himself

00:39:12   mid-century modern but he didn't know

00:39:14   how to

00:39:16   he hadn't he didn't he had fully

00:39:18   domesticated himself and he was kind of

00:39:19   waiting i think to get married you I

00:39:23   lived in this freedom five-bedroom house

00:39:26   and he had had one room he had a bed in

00:39:31   his bedroom and then he had some kind of

00:39:35   folding chairs in the in the living room

00:39:38   a place for people to sit here that's

00:39:41   nice

00:39:42   and then he had a game room with the

00:39:46   with the biggest TV you could buy at the

00:39:47   time and all of his all the stuff that

00:39:49   he cared about and I when we would go

00:39:52   over there it was very difficult to have

00:39:54   a party there because first of all

00:39:55   there's no place to sit and second of

00:39:58   all there's nothing to look at but but

00:40:00   you know we would sometimes go there in

00:40:01   for poker games where I would imagine

00:40:04   him coming home on those days when he

00:40:07   was just by himself like come in for his

00:40:09   keys in the in the key jar stand in the

00:40:14   entry a and look survey like the

00:40:19   thousands of square feet at his disposal

00:40:21   and then like right into the game room

00:40:23   close the door and I couldn't I couldn't

00:40:26   tell whether it was sad or wonderful i'm

00:40:29   still not sure even now he lives in a

00:40:31   beauty is married now and he lives in a

00:40:33   beautiful home that is beautifully

00:40:34   decorated let you know when you're

00:40:38   trying to I mean again I i feel like i

00:40:42   can speak with some Authority on this

00:40:45   coming from

00:40:46   you know lower to middle class lower

00:40:48   middle class and we weren't like you

00:40:50   know impoverished but we didn't have a

00:40:52   lot of dough and you know my parents

00:40:55   born in the you know late twenties early

00:40:58   thirties but like there was definitely

00:41:00   this sense of like I don't know it's

00:41:03   almost like the kind of thing you'd see

00:41:05   like in a martin scorsese movie of where

00:41:07   where people are trying to bring these

00:41:09   things into their life

00:41:11   that will the aisle I guess we all try

00:41:13   to do this bring in something that says

00:41:14   something about who you're becoming

00:41:16   right not just like it isn't like you

00:41:19   want you certainly don't want your your

00:41:21   your parents furniture you want your own

00:41:23   so you get this very very inexpensive

00:41:25   furniture that is meant to be extremely

00:41:28   fancy so in our case remember in 1976 we

00:41:31   bought this French Rococo furniture for

00:41:34   the house everything was French like

00:41:36   rococo and it really kinda looked like

00:41:38   something out of Goodfellas you know and

00:41:41   but it was it was all so poorly made it

00:41:43   was mostly hollow would you know what I

00:41:45   mean yeah but it was supposed to add all

00:41:47   those curly cues that you would hope

00:41:50   would denote a certain kind of fanciness

00:41:52   yeah did you guys have that what you

00:41:54   would you have also when my mom uh left

00:41:57   my dad we move down to Seattle and in

00:42:01   the like perfect expression of who she

00:42:06   was and what she what her aspirations

00:42:09   were she outfitted our house like we had

00:42:14   no money she outfit in our house with

00:42:18   furniture that i cannot even begin to

00:42:22   describe except i will now try was it

00:42:25   was new or used for it was brand-new

00:42:27   what you get you get really good credit

00:42:29   this place is John you can basically

00:42:31   vanilla room but now think about who my

00:42:33   mom is

00:42:34   hm she's not going to is very practical

00:42:38   she's not going to go in debt to some

00:42:40   yuzuriha scred' 'it situation at a

00:42:44   furniture store so our furniture and I'm

00:42:47   talking about our entire house was red

00:42:51   painted paper towel tubes that were

00:42:57   connected with little plastic l-shaped

00:43:01   connectors so you take a paper towel

00:43:03   tube and stick a connector in it and

00:43:06   then it would L and you'd stick another

00:43:09   paper towel tube and not literally

00:43:12   well no they were poster tubes so so I

00:43:16   almost looks like pool furniture except

00:43:21   casual-like lounge except literally made

00:43:25   out of cardboard somehow my god so the

00:43:30   l's and-and-and-and-and a lot of the

00:43:32   joints were three-way right so you have

00:43:34   one in the top tube and then to add a at

00:43:38   a 90-degree angle or or yeah a 90 degree

00:43:42   angle to one another to make the two

00:43:44   sides of a table and you would just

00:43:46   build these cubes out of poster tubes

00:43:51   and they were the poster tubes were just

00:43:53   big enough that like a child could stick

00:43:55   their hand inside the tube

00:43:57   yeah um literally like the poster tubes

00:44:03   that had been painted red and then the

00:44:05   the plastic parts were white and then

00:44:08   over the top of you so you build a cube

00:44:11   out of that and then there was a piece

00:44:12   of plastic like um like whiteboard color

00:44:17   that you would put over the top of it

00:44:20   and that was your coffee table and then

00:44:22   you would make another cube and are

00:44:24   these were your end tables and then then

00:44:26   there was a long cube which we call a

00:44:29   rectangle a long low rectangle that you

00:44:33   that was your that was your main coffee

00:44:34   table and now there was actually

00:44:37   furniture that you could sit on made out

00:44:40   of these cardboard tubes that were you

00:44:44   know assets by combining the right

00:44:46   combination of these some you know these

00:44:49   plastic adapters and whatnot that you

00:44:51   could make a thing strong enough to hold

00:44:53   an adult and this was our living room

00:44:57   furniture and for a long time listen I

00:45:00   mean what did you build them he was it

00:45:02   modular where you buy the pieces and put

00:45:04   it together yourself yeah yeah

00:45:06   and-and-and just because of the nature

00:45:09   of it you were building them and and

00:45:11   rebuilding them every single day because

00:45:13   because as a kid right you could take

00:45:17   the furniture part it and as an adult I

00:45:20   think people would sit down and be like

00:45:21   this furniture is made out of cardboard

00:45:24   tubes and they would like take it apart

00:45:26   just out of fascination sure and then

00:45:29   put it back

00:45:30   you gotta be like well that's really

00:45:31   amazing and it was amazing and i can't

00:45:34   believe that i mean because it couldn't

00:45:38   have been cheaper to produce I can't

00:45:40   believe that it's not still feature

00:45:42   except that like it would be terrible

00:45:44   dorm room furniture because the first

00:45:46   time somebody got drunk and leaned on

00:45:48   something like the whole witches would

00:45:51   be destroyed like you had to be somewhat

00:45:55   ginger like it's not like you could

00:45:57   climb on the coffee table right i mean

00:45:59   it would break in seven hundred ways so

00:46:02   but this was her solution she needed

00:46:05   furniture for our house and she found

00:46:08   this there's a part of me at the time

00:46:10   that thought maybe she had just gone to

00:46:12   run to the drug store and bought a bunch

00:46:15   of stuff and painted herself but it but

00:46:17   it had it had a quality where somebody

00:46:21   this was somebody's business plan

00:46:23   somebody had that thought this up and

00:46:27   this was a product they were selling I

00:46:29   never had never seen it anywhere else

00:46:30   and what's amazing is that a few of

00:46:32   those few of those furniture items

00:46:35   stayed with us all the way through to

00:46:40   the mid-eighties right we still had a

00:46:42   couple of those end tables and I is that

00:46:48   they played another role in my life

00:46:51   formative role you make a bong no they

00:46:55   wouldn't have been a terrible bomb stuff

00:46:57   but the coffee table was the first thing

00:47:02   to to go because the big long coffee

00:47:07   table right in front of the in front of

00:47:09   the couch you want to put big books on

00:47:11   it but more importantly you want to put

00:47:13   your feet on it and this thing was just

00:47:16   not strong enough to have a have

00:47:19   somebody put their feet up on the coffee

00:47:21   table and so the coffee table was the

00:47:23   thing that seemed like the tubes were

00:47:27   just too long to support like the first

00:47:30   time some guy came over and through his

00:47:32   feet up there just started to sag

00:47:34   and so when I was learning my

00:47:36   multiplication tables my mom decided

00:47:39   that she was going to sacrifice the

00:47:43   coffee table what remained of the coffee

00:47:44   table she was going to sacrifice to this

00:47:46   project and so she took the top off the

00:47:50   coffee table ended up against the wall

00:47:52   and made a giant and with a black marker

00:47:55   made a giant times tables on it

00:47:58   Wow and we would sit and study our times

00:48:02   tables and she already knew them but we

00:48:05   would sit and I would study my times

00:48:07   tables on this giant coffee table a

00:48:11   piece of plastic and then I think it

00:48:14   went back on the coffee table the

00:48:17   remaining another sort of end and life

00:48:21   of the coffee table it would go you know

00:48:24   facedown and we continue to use it as a

00:48:28   table for a while and then we would flip

00:48:30   it up and do our times tables

00:48:32   um and then eventually like it all went

00:48:36   to the landfill and your mom's a

00:48:38   maverick

00:48:39   yeah well you know you gotta listen man

00:48:43   waste not want not choose to use every

00:48:46   part of the Buffalo this episode of rock

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00:50:20   Squarespace build it beautiful oh my god

00:50:24   i found some my daughters getting to

00:50:28   that age where she likes looking at old

00:50:29   pictures like old family pictures and

00:50:31   she found a bunch the other night

00:50:33   actually the last night that confirmed

00:50:36   something I thought I was misremembering

00:50:38   but that we were actually one of those

00:50:42   families that on on the nice furniture

00:50:46   we would always put like plastic

00:50:49   oh sure sure you did because you

00:50:51   listened oh yeah this but like I goes is

00:50:53   something everybody did like when once

00:50:55   you arrive and i don't remember this is

00:50:57   not super interesting but i do remember

00:50:58   you know back then everybody would

00:51:00   arrive at a point where like I get not

00:51:02   everybody but it was not uncommon to

00:51:04   arrive at a point where you had a place

00:51:06   that you're renting and maybe you're

00:51:08   making a little more money than before

00:51:09   you're mostly making ends meet and I see

00:51:11   my really feel like I remember the

00:51:12   furniture companies being very

00:51:15   aggressive about things like okay no

00:51:16   money down or small money down and you

00:51:18   can get this entire room this suite of

00:51:21   course when we did arrive at that point

00:51:23   by the mid seventies we have to really

00:51:26   take care of everything

00:51:27   so this this whole is some liquor

00:51:30   appalling couch that we had to replace

00:51:33   our old appalling couch i do remember my

00:51:35   mom putting a plastic cover on it that

00:51:38   that made it really really uncomfortable

00:51:41   and and really quite ugly but you have

00:51:43   to keep the couch nice that was just the

00:51:45   kind of thing that that that we did is

00:51:47   that our family was a cover the

00:51:48   furniture family it's it's it's

00:51:51   interesting because we definitely were

00:51:54   not and i would go to people's houses

00:51:56   that had covered the furniture

00:51:58   and I you know was told that it was like

00:52:01   my what I always assumed was that you

00:52:06   left the covers on the furniture until

00:52:08   guests came special guest and then you

00:52:10   took the covers off stands to reason but

00:52:12   no one ever took the covers off and then

00:52:14   when when my mom got me my mom got a

00:52:16   good job and moved to Alaska and I was

00:52:22   already living in Alaska with my dad and

00:52:24   all of a sudden my mom is living in

00:52:27   Alaska to and has a nicer house than my

00:52:30   dad and it was like whoa time

00:52:33   times have changed fortunes have

00:52:34   switched around and then my mom moved

00:52:39   again into a much nicer house in the

00:52:43   nice neighborhood no less and she had

00:52:46   leverage herself pretty highly at that

00:52:49   point in fig specifically to get her

00:52:52   dream home in it in a nice neighborhood

00:52:55   it was right before i was going into

00:52:57   high school she timed it all very

00:52:59   purposefully oh so that I was during the

00:53:05   time that I was in high school we lived

00:53:07   in the nice neighborhood and in a nice

00:53:12   house in that neighborhood so she was

00:53:15   fulfilling her own dream and also trying

00:53:19   to facilitate my path through life

00:53:22   did you I mean if I'm not being too much

00:53:24   into this to like get into a good school

00:53:28   well that the schools in Anchorage were

00:53:30   sort of all about the same if it was it

00:53:33   was that she didn't want me to go or

00:53:35   rather she perceived that if she lived

00:53:40   in a nice neighborhood and I went to the

00:53:41   and I started high school from the nice

00:53:43   neighborhood that i would have a social

00:53:45   leg up right that I wouldn't be going

00:53:48   home on the on the school bus to the

00:53:51   poor neighborhood I would be living in

00:53:53   the rich neighborhood with the other

00:53:55   with the rich kids who were going to go

00:53:56   to the good schools like it was a very

00:53:58   it was it was it was a a move that was

00:54:01   conscious of the social undercurrents

00:54:06   and and she was playing up it was a part

00:54:09   of her fantasy to both to have the nice

00:54:11   house

00:54:12   and to be the mother of a kid who's you

00:54:14   know she was the only single parent in

00:54:16   that whole neighborhood

00:54:17   Wow everybody else was you know married

00:54:21   with kids and they ostracized her for

00:54:24   being a single woman who was presumably

00:54:27   they're into the women all that was a

00:54:29   real thing yeah the women all presumed

00:54:31   that she was there to steal their

00:54:32   husbands and you know and the the

00:54:35   neighbor the the local husband's the

00:54:37   neighbor men would come by on Saturday

00:54:39   afternoon stand there with their rake

00:54:41   you know like it was standing with a

00:54:44   rake like how's it going over here you

00:54:45   need any help you know like it was it

00:54:47   was there was a there was weirdness

00:54:49   about being a single woman particularly

00:54:52   a single mother and I heard from a lot

00:54:54   of kids like that kind of the way kids

00:54:58   repeat the things that they here at

00:55:00   their dinner table just that all the

00:55:03   suspicion and fear about a woman living

00:55:05   on her own with two kids and a nice

00:55:07   house in the name it was like you know

00:55:09   my mom was was was very she's very

00:55:16   definitely like standing with her head

00:55:19   held high and her chin out like yeah

00:55:22   that's right i bought that I bought the

00:55:24   corner house on on stanford and

00:55:28   princeton right like I i and i must then

00:55:31   I'm a single mom and fuck you and of

00:55:34   course like any other I loved being in

00:55:38   the in the rich neighborhood right it

00:55:40   was it was although I although I learned

00:55:43   to hate it because rich kids are

00:55:46   assholes

00:55:47   yeah but at the time it seemed like a

00:55:49   real real positive it's not a one-time

00:55:51   thing where once you're in a bad but we

00:55:52   talked about at length I mean now you

00:55:54   need the right alligator on your shirt

00:55:55   oh yeah and I didn't and you know and so

00:55:57   she was not willing having gotten a nice

00:55:59   how she was not willing to put an

00:56:01   alligator on one of my shirts that's not

00:56:03   sustainable

00:56:03   not in a million years she still

00:56:06   maintained her like you know her farm

00:56:09   ethics she was going to repurpose the

00:56:11   coffee table multiple times but what she

00:56:14   did do was buy a set of furniture for

00:56:17   the living room that we were not allowed

00:56:19   to say

00:56:19   dawn and it was the first time it at

00:56:23   anything like that had ever happened

00:56:24   like all of a sudden we weren't allowed

00:56:27   in the living room and I was like what

00:56:30   am i a fucking cat I'm allowed in the

00:56:33   goddamn room i am the son of this house

00:56:35   i'm the scion of this legacy and I would

00:56:38   go and sit in the living room and she

00:56:39   would come in and say get off those

00:56:40   couches and everything maybe with the

00:56:44   spray bottle shoe and and so for several

00:56:48   years there after we moved into that

00:56:51   house we had a living room and the thing

00:56:52   is that the shitt the furniture she

00:56:53   bought was like light pink verging into

00:56:57   white and I wasn't what we weren't

00:57:01   allowed to go in there except christmas

00:57:02   morning and if somebody came by which

00:57:05   she made every attempt to prevent ever

00:57:08   happening right no one ever came by she

00:57:11   never had anybody over 240 she kept the

00:57:14   blinds closed and she I think she would

00:57:16   go in at night and stand in the doorway

00:57:18   of her perfect living room and it gave

00:57:20   her a tremendous satisfaction but she I

00:57:24   guess she had finally she had fun she

00:57:26   finally purchased a house that was big

00:57:28   enough that there could be a room in the

00:57:29   house that no one used and the American

00:57:32   check that's right and then she set up

00:57:34   this room in her perfect in a perfect

00:57:36   vision of what that looked like and then

00:57:39   she would be damned

00:57:41   that's it that's kind of like the

00:57:42   historical role of the parlor right

00:57:43   right

00:57:44   it's not keeping it live very keeping

00:57:46   that the rooms really just for Kennedy

00:57:47   or the Pope yeah exactly and and she

00:57:50   didn't put plastic over it but I think

00:57:52   she later wish she had because when i

00:57:55   first started drinking one of the first

00:58:00   arm one of maybe in the first 20 times i

00:58:05   drank because you know the first time I

00:58:07   drink I got shit-faced and then every

00:58:09   successive time i drank i got shit-faced

00:58:11   there was never there was never a time

00:58:12   when I had two beers not a single time

00:58:15   for the beginning from the very

00:58:17   beginning I was just how interesting

00:58:19   this is this alcohol is amazing how much

00:58:22   of this can I drink and I was just like

00:58:24   lotto

00:58:26   and so it was it it was never explained

00:58:29   to me and it never occurred to me that

00:58:31   there was another way to drink beer or

00:58:35   wine coolers or champagne or whatever

00:58:39   was handed to me except as much as you

00:58:42   can get like as much as you can get away

00:58:43   with man and then it later on somebody

00:58:48   suggested that we have a couple of beers

00:58:50   and I remember just be like the point of

00:58:53   that be a couple of beers with what it

00:58:56   what are you talking about to start

00:58:58   right a couple of beers but I mean but

00:59:01   anyway one of the time one of those

00:59:03   times I came home somebody drop me off

00:59:05   got me to the front door and ran and I

00:59:10   made it into the front room peed myself

00:59:13   took off all my clothes and then fell

00:59:19   asleep on her pink couch

00:59:20   oh no John and I woke up in the morning

00:59:23   to her sitting in the big chair

00:59:26   oh god this and it was the first time

00:59:29   she'd seen you drunk no she'd seen it

00:59:32   before but what made this moment special

00:59:38   was that my dad was also there my dad

00:59:41   who was not often invited into my mom's

00:59:44   house had been invited over and so there

00:59:47   had been no she came downstairs

00:59:49   obviously she wakes up at five in the

00:59:50   morning she came downstairs

00:59:52   sami Trump with my p close you know in a

00:59:56   kind of fire sale a path

00:59:56   kind of fire sale a path

01:00:00   into her living room me naked on the

01:00:02   couch and so she know what woke up at

01:00:05   five in the morning had time to have

01:00:08   breakfast herself all my father tell him

01:00:11   to come over and then they woke me up at

01:00:14   9i think woke me up by going and then I

01:00:20   had to hear what was the first of many

01:00:22   alcoholism lectures from my two parents

01:00:27   combined working together as a team

01:00:29   it was a it was an auspicious and

01:00:33   inauspicious christening of those pic

01:00:36   couches let me say did you did she have

01:00:39   a way for you to make good

01:00:40   well everybody was much more worried

01:00:44   about the fact that i was recapitulating

01:00:47   the family curse because my older

01:00:50   brother and my father's father my father

01:00:54   himself at all had all gone down this

01:00:56   path and so they were I'm and I could

01:00:58   only imagine if you know if you're

01:01:01   fifteen-year-old kid I mean talk about

01:01:03   calling them on the phone from the fort

01:01:04   lauderdale airport and and checking

01:01:06   their starting at their facebook post if

01:01:08   you're fifteen-year-old kid is like not

01:01:10   just coming home drunk but but but you

01:01:14   but you know what the end game of the

01:01:17   stories they were super super worried

01:01:20   how do you feel well I feel like a I

01:01:28   feel like two things it never occurred

01:01:33   to me that I was anything but an

01:01:36   alcoholic from the very beginning from

01:01:41   the first time I had a great because my

01:01:42   dad was a recovering alcoholic from

01:01:44   before I was born

01:01:45   so the only time that alcohol was ever

01:01:48   referenced and and by that I mean all

01:01:51   the fucking time because growing up in

01:01:54   Alaska in the seventies it was like

01:01:57   Dodge City right everybody was shitfaced

01:02:01   all the time people would go out to

01:02:03   lunch and come back to their job running

01:02:07   the pipeline and be like six martinis in

01:02:11   and their job was to sit there and

01:02:14   control the the pressure of the oil

01:02:16   running through the pipes got and

01:02:18   they're just like I'm flying I got it

01:02:20   absolutely you know like it was a it was

01:02:22   a a culture of of abuse and so I'd heard

01:02:27   about alcohol I'd seen it I had I'd seen

01:02:31   it all around me and and with my dad's

01:02:34   kind of like critique of it which was he

01:02:38   never talked out of the side of his

01:02:39   mouth my dad always spoke right out of

01:02:42   the front of his mouth and we you know

01:02:44   but but but like bars were the only

01:02:46   place that you could socialize in Alaska

01:02:48   so we would go into bars and sit there

01:02:49   and be just people like getting in

01:02:51   gunfights and my dad would be a little

01:02:55   walking over to them and like you ever

01:02:57   thought about going to Alcoholics

01:02:58   Anonymous so so the first time I ever

01:03:03   had a drink it I knew I was an alcoholic

01:03:06   it never occurred to me that I wasn't

01:03:07   and my performance as a young drinker

01:03:11   reinforced than I was and so on my

01:03:14   parents woke me up that morning we're

01:03:16   like you are exhibiting the signs of

01:03:17   being an alcoholic

01:03:19   it's a very bad road to be on and you

01:03:22   need to really take a hard look at it I

01:03:25   was like asked and answered

01:03:27   I've already taken a hard look at it I'm

01:03:29   an alcoholic what's next where do I you

01:03:31   know like where do I sign up for the

01:03:33   alcoholic a adventure and I don't think

01:03:38   anybody I don't think they have the I

01:03:40   don't think they anticipated that and I

01:03:43   and i'm not sure that i actually

01:03:45   communicated that I think I probably did

01:03:49   was look chastened and a and sort of

01:03:53   nodded and SAT there you know head

01:03:55   spinning it was like I'm sorry i'll try

01:03:57   not to do it again and I I basically

01:03:59   said I'm sorry i'll try not to do it

01:04:01   again for 10 or 12 more years and no one

01:04:07   in my life ever realized that I knew I

01:04:10   was a fucking alcoholic and I was trying

01:04:13   to plumb the depths of that are like I

01:04:16   was trying to find what

01:04:18   I knew I knew about the concept of a

01:04:19   bottom I was like let's see if i can

01:04:21   find mine really at 15

01:04:24   yeah because because there's you know

01:04:28   there's that other side of never knew I

01:04:30   never knew that it was in your case that

01:04:34   it that it was really like 0-200 kind of

01:04:38   thing I figured it was you know typical

01:04:40   kind of high school maybe escalating

01:04:42   little more being on the weekends but

01:04:44   from the from the beginning for you it

01:04:45   was all or nothing

01:04:47   yeah and-and-and it was it was always

01:04:51   crazy to me I remember the first time I

01:04:53   was sitting in a meeting and listening

01:04:56   to everybody's going around and gets to

01:04:58   this guy he's like you know I don't know

01:05:00   why I'm here

01:05:01   he's probably 30 i don't know why I'm

01:05:05   here

01:05:06   I mean oh I know why I'm here because

01:05:10   the cops are making me come here because

01:05:12   I got five duis and the whole the whole

01:05:17   meeting just breaks up everybody's

01:05:20   laughing and the guys like what are you

01:05:21   fucking laughing about

01:05:23   and somebody's like dude if you got five

01:05:25   duis and sometimes they caught him

01:05:28   those are the times we caught it right

01:05:29   five prosecuted duis where they've taken

01:05:33   your license right um you have a

01:05:36   drinking problem and the guys like what

01:05:38   are you even talking about I just go

01:05:40   drink like a normal person and it was

01:05:43   this it was this like dawning

01:05:45   realization you saw it on his face as

01:05:48   people are like very gently kind of any

01:05:51   you know most a meeting you there is not

01:05:53   crosstalk but this guy was inviting it

01:05:55   was like let's talk some other people

01:05:58   comment about comment on what you're

01:05:59   saying right and that's generally

01:06:00   frowned on it's not part of the culture

01:06:02   right he just you say your piece and

01:06:04   then the next person says their piece

01:06:06   and even if the next person like

01:06:07   obliquely refers to what you just said

01:06:09   it's American is crosstalk also where

01:06:12   people could potentially say that sounds

01:06:15   like bullshit you really supposed to do

01:06:18   that we're not supposed to do that

01:06:19   okay if the person is saying bullshit

01:06:21   the presumption is that if they stick

01:06:24   around in a meetings long enough there

01:06:26   one day going to be like holy shit

01:06:28   I have been full of shit all this time

01:06:29   and that's because everybody else is

01:06:32   probably tried the same route he hasn't

01:06:34   worked there's nothing new in those

01:06:35   meetings right so the end and what how

01:06:37   often happens is the next person to talk

01:06:38   or somewhere down the road some old old

01:06:42   timer will be like will basically talk

01:06:44   about themselves and say to the effect

01:06:48   something like I remember when I was

01:06:51   full of shit and it was a really hard

01:06:55   experience when I realized it because

01:06:58   I'd been in a 44 years before I realized

01:07:01   that everything that had come out of my

01:07:03   mouth was bullshit and everybody in the

01:07:05   room nods and you just hope that you

01:07:10   know that the person that it needs to

01:07:13   hear that can hear it but of course they

01:07:15   can't right that's what's amazing about

01:07:17   those meetings is that everybody just

01:07:19   says what's on their mind and you just

01:07:21   go and sometimes somebody will open

01:07:23   their mouth the first word they that

01:07:25   comes out of Matthew just like this guy

01:07:26   is going to give us 15 minutes of the

01:07:29   worst self-justifying bullshit and

01:07:32   there's nothing we can do its part of

01:07:34   the meeting we didn't see anything you

01:07:35   have after a few months or years of that

01:07:37   they're there must be certain kinds of

01:07:40   types like us you must see a certain

01:07:43   kind of like well i can tell that person

01:07:44   in this particular phase right now

01:07:46   yeah it's the it's the five stages of

01:07:48   grief or whatever it's the same same

01:07:50   type of thing and you just at but

01:07:51   somebody might go there for a really

01:07:52   long time

01:07:53   not really want to be there and it isn't

01:07:56   like everybody gets there the first week

01:07:58   they break down and go out you know I'm

01:08:00   i see the light now

01:08:02   no you can go to a four years i'm not

01:08:04   and not do it must be so weird have so

01:08:07   many people in different states of I

01:08:10   mean you know me mr on it seems like

01:08:12   there must be people incredibly

01:08:13   different phases of all sorts of aspects

01:08:15   of that process it must be very weird

01:08:17   it's really weird

01:08:18   particularly since one of the dominating

01:08:20   for one of the dominant characteristics

01:08:22   of alcoholics is that they want to tell

01:08:23   everybody how to do it so that's baked

01:08:27   into the concept right everybody in the

01:08:30   room is sitting there quietly and in

01:08:34   their own minds saying off

01:08:36   fuck if I could just stand up right now

01:08:40   and explain what why this person is

01:08:43   doing it wrong and matter and so

01:08:44   everybody I mean because that is an

01:08:46   alcoholic trait 2a 2b the inner to be

01:08:50   the expert and so its roots of I mean

01:08:53   that's what makes it that's why I'm a

01:08:55   supporter of that program it is a

01:08:56   fascinating like multifaceted experiment

01:09:02   in psychologist seems like you might

01:09:04   have to find out like completely unknown

01:09:07   and untapped levels new levels of

01:09:09   humility for that to be something you

01:09:11   stick with in progressive it seems like

01:09:14   you've gotta constantly find a new level

01:09:15   of humility

01:09:16   it's the core it's the core is it that's

01:09:18   why it works right it's the because the

01:09:20   people that manage to get there are

01:09:25   basically experiencing the toughest the

01:09:32   toughest Reuters n which is being

01:09:35   confronted every day with people who are

01:09:38   exhibiting all the things about yourself

01:09:40   that you hate the most

01:09:41   and not being able not not being able to

01:09:45   do anything except listen you know every

01:09:49   every single person in a MTG wants to

01:09:51   take it over and be the chief different

01:09:53   and no one can say somewhere they are

01:09:55   right then yeah you know again it's

01:09:57   based on and there's somebody that's got

01:09:59   30 years of sobriety there's somebody

01:10:00   because 40 years of sobriety and I you

01:10:05   know and there's somebody that's got 60

01:10:07   days of sobriety and they want to take

01:10:09   the meeting over and tell everybody how

01:10:10   to do it and it's just like yeah

01:10:12   whatever they would they call that phase

01:10:15   with the cloud pink cloud or something

01:10:19   like that is in their face like when you

01:10:21   first stop drinking and you start to

01:10:25   feel a lot better and like you get this

01:10:27   I i know that there's a lot of

01:10:29   nomenclature be careful about I want to

01:10:31   abuse it but was there something

01:10:32   everybody goes through when you first

01:10:33   get off it and then you start to feel

01:10:35   like you're feeling better and you're

01:10:37   feeling you know sober and then

01:10:39   everybody goes through this phase of the

01:10:40   tank haha now I've got it

01:10:42   yeah right and for me it happened about

01:10:45   between three and six months we're just

01:10:48   like at six months you feel like fuck I

01:10:51   had you been drinking for six months or

01:10:54   six months in program uh I mean there

01:10:57   were multiple times that I quit drinking

01:10:58   for six months right but I never but the

01:11:02   final time when I was really going to

01:11:05   Alcoholics Anonymous all the time and

01:11:07   was you know and and was trying to be

01:11:11   sober instead of just like being forced

01:11:14   to be sober or experimenting with being

01:11:17   sober but I was like okay I'm gonna ice

01:11:20   i have i have been to the edge I've

01:11:22   stood and looked down I lost a lot of

01:11:24   friends and so I hey I'm like I'm in

01:11:30   this to win this or at least I'm trying

01:11:31   to make it through and at six months I

01:11:33   was just like I'm I feel amazing

01:11:36   I've got this thing on lock and then

01:11:38   invariably right you come to the next

01:11:42   turtle which is that it's not a thing

01:11:44   you can ever really have unlock you have

01:11:46   to just do whatever you know everything

01:11:50   even if you're not drinking again he

01:11:52   still doesn't mean it seems like there's

01:11:54   also obviously like backsliding or

01:11:55   whatever but then there's that sense

01:11:58   that it's not uncommon to have a sense

01:12:00   to feel like you've turned the corner

01:12:01   there's no way you could go back at this

01:12:03   point that's a common thing right very

01:12:05   common and the and the next thing that

01:12:07   comes out of your mouth is and since

01:12:09   it's impossible but I could ever go back

01:12:11   there's no reason why I shouldn't have

01:12:12   one drink one drink camp because it's

01:12:14   fuckin new years eve or whatever and

01:12:16   there's no way there's no way I'm going

01:12:18   to ever be an alcoholic again

01:12:20   so what's the harm in having one little

01:12:24   tiny drink I that I've never thought

01:12:28   about that the way here described such a

01:12:31   fascinating organization to me and the

01:12:34   work that they do is you know so

01:12:35   incredible but so weird

01:12:37   yeah because now and the reason i'm

01:12:39   thinking of this is it's like you think

01:12:41   about nothing this is not much change

01:12:43   topic but if you're trying to like help

01:12:45   somebody who you know is really fucking

01:12:47   wrong and really stupid and the example

01:12:49   here being like look at me or you and

01:12:51   we're teenagers full stop right and

01:12:53   there's there's it's a lot like

01:12:56   jamac it because you feel like you

01:12:59   first of all you know you better than

01:13:01   anybody obviously you know your

01:13:04   you-know-what you struggled with you

01:13:06   know what you've gotten through and like

01:13:08   and who is more fucking dangerous than

01:13:10   like a 15 year old boy who thinks he's

01:13:12   figured it out for now yeah and and you

01:13:14   know there's on the one hand there's

01:13:16   part of me that has an old guy look at

01:13:17   that I think I remember being like that

01:13:19   and still like that in many ways it's

01:13:21   just the irony of course we always feel

01:13:22   like we've got to figure it out but like

01:13:24   it's so impossible sometimes to even

01:13:27   know what level to try and help somebody

01:13:28   at and if they even want to be helped

01:13:31   like the amount and i say here why a

01:13:33   teenager because there's no way for a

01:13:35   teenager even know like how fucked up

01:13:37   they are that their brain is not done

01:13:39   you know being formed yet there's the

01:13:41   big middle part of their brain that's

01:13:42   still just a bunch of mush taking crazy

01:13:44   risks they have you know what I mean

01:13:45   they're not getting enough sleep there's

01:13:47   all kinds of things that are making you

01:13:48   a teenager and who are biologically

01:13:52   incapable of being able to see these

01:13:54   things that everybody else in the world

01:13:55   can see like you know why why do you

01:13:57   keep like hanging out with this group of

01:14:00   people they're obviously not good for

01:14:02   your why do you keep doing this

01:14:04   self-destructive thing or why do you why

01:14:06   are you being so negative about this

01:14:07   because there's all these kinds of

01:14:08   things but the recent survey is it

01:14:09   sounds like you know an 18 year old me

01:14:12   would want to counsel fifteen-year-old

01:14:14   me a certain way because he thinks he's

01:14:16   got to figure it out right because if

01:14:17   you're always super-smart haha i can

01:14:19   help those kids 20 22 year-old male will

01:14:21   Jesus Christ we like it to 27 because

01:14:24   that's what I'm really fucking smart

01:14:25   I knew everything when I was 27 I could

01:14:27   certainly council this poor bastard to

01:14:29   be but you know it's really it's so

01:14:31   interesting to think about everybody in

01:14:32   the group is helping themselves and

01:14:34   helping others partly when they threw

01:14:36   the track of kids they're always

01:14:37   stepping back onto is going like

01:14:39   humility and like we've all got shit to

01:14:42   learn and there's all things were even

01:14:44   me who's been this program for 40 years

01:14:46   or whatever they're still support to

01:14:48   this adventure that I haven't seen yet

01:14:49   and i still have a lot to learn and

01:14:51   that's ultimately what gives me the

01:14:52   humility to keep showing up and helping

01:14:54   people the best I can without thinking

01:14:56   anybody's got the fucking answer right

01:14:58   music I mean I find it fascinating as an

01:15:01   approach nowhere else in the world you

01:15:03   actually see that kind of an approach to

01:15:05   improvement of everybody going like look

01:15:07   I'm only good at this

01:15:09   I'm not trying to be the expert at this

01:15:10   and that is why it is you

01:15:12   it's a unique a thought experiment in

01:15:16   the history of humankind right i mean I

01:15:19   that's why AAA has been so bastardized

01:15:22   and the recovery movements have swept

01:15:24   Lincoln eighties and nineties when it

01:15:26   will end and even now I mean there are

01:15:28   people right now who are paying five

01:15:31   thousand dollars a week to be in an AAA

01:15:33   style a rehab where ultimately it isn't

01:15:39   a a style because if you have someone in

01:15:42   charge and if you have bars on the

01:15:45   windows or if you have any kind of

01:15:48   coercion then it's not a and and the

01:15:53   courts routinely send people to

01:15:57   Alcoholics Anonymous as part of her

01:15:58   punishment and those people are there

01:16:00   and they put their little you know what

01:16:02   they're a basket goes around the room

01:16:04   and everybody put a dollar in just to

01:16:09   pay for coffee

01:16:10   who but a basket goes around the room

01:16:13   and people put in their little green and

01:16:14   blue and yellow slips that they get from

01:16:17   the court right so that somebody at the

01:16:20   a meeting signs off on it and they can

01:16:21   take it back to their parole officer and

01:16:23   say yeah went to a but as soon as that

01:16:25   element is there i don't think it's a

01:16:28   banana just treating it like the way in

01:16:30   an old movie you would treat the army or

01:16:33   church

01:16:34   yeah right where you say well you're

01:16:35   going to here's the thing you won't i

01:16:37   won't find you guilty of this if you go

01:16:38   join the army or I won't find you guilty

01:16:40   of this if you start getting some church

01:16:42   in you write that the idea that there is

01:16:44   something that needs to be reformed

01:16:45   about you that whether you're willing or

01:16:48   not

01:16:48   proximity to this group and their

01:16:50   practices will be something that can't

01:16:52   help but make you better than you are

01:16:54   right now sorry bastard

01:16:56   it sounds like with a there's that's a

01:16:57   completely inaccurate assumption to make

01:16:59   well i don't know i mean it is entirely

01:17:01   possible that somebody sits in a forced

01:17:04   a a situation for six months and goes at

01:17:08   you know somewhere along the line goes

01:17:09   huh

01:17:10   this actually is getting through to me

01:17:12   but like two things when when you're

01:17:17   about six months in getting sober at

01:17:20   least in my experience I remember having

01:17:22   the field

01:17:22   but oh my god I'm so lucky because I

01:17:26   wish everybody in the world had to hit

01:17:29   this moment where they needed to be in a

01:17:35   because it's such a it's such a

01:17:38   fascinating and and you know humbling

01:17:43   experience and I'm i have an insight now

01:17:46   that I couldn't have had otherwise but I

01:17:48   wish everybody shared it's like the

01:17:52   first time you take LSD and you're like

01:17:53   well I wish everybody in the world would

01:17:54   take LSD one time and going to LA and

01:17:57   going 2a is is very similar it's like

01:17:59   fuck if everybody you know they're there

01:18:03   are a lot of people out there laboring

01:18:04   along and this knowledge is so useful

01:18:10   mhm um that I wish everybody shared it

01:18:14   but but the fundamental thing about a

01:18:16   guy that's been sober for 40 years who

01:18:19   keeps going 2a is that he keeps learning

01:18:22   things about himself from listening to

01:18:26   people who are you have been sober for

01:18:27   60 days

01:18:29   wow wow wow that is not something you

01:18:34   can duplicate it's not something you can

01:18:36   package and put a price on and and and

01:18:43   ultimately the reason that he is there

01:18:46   and subjecting himself to that which is

01:18:49   uncomfortable and which is like you know

01:18:52   listen to somebody has been sober for 60

01:18:54   days talk about how much they know if

01:18:57   you've been sober for two years is just

01:18:59   like here you just look so bad and yet

01:19:03   you're there because you want to not

01:19:06   because you want to what whatever that

01:19:09   is and so last year I get a phone call

01:19:14   from some manager

01:19:17   and there and this happens this happens

01:19:20   periodically manager says I know that

01:19:23   you are sober and I go yeah and they say

01:19:27   well I've got a one of my artists is

01:19:31   struggling and I'd like you to talk to

01:19:34   them if you would and i go of course and

01:19:38   I get on the phone and in this

01:19:40   particular case it's a it's an artist

01:19:43   that never met but whose you know who

01:19:46   was a big rock star but younger than me

01:19:49   and getting in a lot of troubles drunken

01:19:53   and and so forth and he's like yeah I

01:19:58   manager soon as she call you

01:20:00   you know I'm like what do you want to

01:20:02   stop drinking and he's like well i mean

01:20:04   i keep getting it you know i'm screwed

01:20:06   up my life I'm like that doesn't mean

01:20:07   you want to stop drinking right he's

01:20:10   like well I mean you know I if I don't

01:20:13   do something I'm gonna go ruin my career

01:20:15   and I'm like that doesn't mean you want

01:20:17   to stop drinking look people fucking

01:20:18   ruin their families destroy their kids

01:20:22   burn their house down like do you want

01:20:26   to stop drinking and we talked six seven

01:20:30   eight times late at night most of the

01:20:33   time he was fucked up man

01:20:35   and every time he wants to argue with me

01:20:38   you know he's like well Jim Morrison is

01:20:41   my hero and so's Bukowski and so's

01:20:45   Hemingway he was looking to find a way

01:20:47   to reframe the conversation while you

01:20:49   are consistently asking exactly the same

01:20:52   question exactly the same way

01:20:53   yeah and I was just like well yeah Jim

01:20:55   Morrison and Hemingway and Bukowski um

01:20:58   what about you what do you want to stop

01:21:00   drinking or do not like if you want to

01:21:03   die like Bukowski go for it why are you

01:21:08   calling me and he you know and he's a

01:21:12   guy who had who everybody in his life is

01:21:15   like ohmygod ohmygod ohmygod you've

01:21:17   gotta stop drinking you've gotta stop

01:21:18   drinking

01:21:19   and he you know they put him in touch

01:21:22   with me and I'm like I don't listen I

01:21:23   don't give a fuck if you stop drinking

01:21:25   is like he's used to be in the beautiful

01:21:26   loser

01:21:27   yeah he's the Beautiful Losers like move

01:21:28   fucking Bukowski band and I'm like a

01:21:31   Bukowski yeah right

01:21:33   makowsky right Hemingway right uh do you

01:21:38   want to stop drinking or do you not if

01:21:39   you do then I'll i got some

01:21:41   recommendations and i'll talk to you on

01:21:43   the phone as much as you want if you

01:21:46   don't and you want to talk to me on the

01:21:49   phone about it i'm happy to talk to you

01:21:51   on the phone about it but I'm I'm not

01:21:54   gonna argue with you about how Jim

01:21:57   Morrison is your role model

01:21:59   I you know like go for it like it

01:22:03   seriously if you want to drink and ruin

01:22:06   your life

01:22:06   it is totally beautiful it's like

01:22:09   unbelievable year like us shooting star

01:22:12   man but if you want to stop drinking it

01:22:16   sucks it's hard it's bullshit but it so

01:22:20   it's a thing that you either want or you

01:22:22   don't and if you don't don't waste

01:22:24   everybody's time if you do like there's

01:22:29   a they're like things you gotta do one

01:22:31   of them as you stop drinking and then

01:22:33   the next thing is you take a look around

01:22:35   and start to think you start listening

01:22:39   to people that have done it and you know

01:22:40   it is not the enemy must be difficult

01:22:42   because it's not really a negotiation

01:22:44   like this is the way it goes right it's

01:22:46   so difficult and what ended up happening

01:22:48   with this guy is that that he you know

01:22:53   some drunken night called me four

01:22:56   o'clock in the morning and was time you

01:22:58   know talking to me about Bukowski and I

01:23:02   was like dude I've read every Bukowski

01:23:05   everything and I and I saw Bukowski at

01:23:10   75 years old or whatever in that

01:23:12   documentary kick his girlfriend and

01:23:15   Bukowski's an asshole and whatever I

01:23:17   like if you want to be Bukowski why call

01:23:19   me at four o'clock in the morning call

01:23:21   your girlfriend and tell her how

01:23:23   Bukowski you are

01:23:24   and he you know and what our thing just

01:23:27   like memory memory Charles Bukowski

01:23:29   calling people in the middle of the

01:23:30   night to talk about Charles Bukowski but

01:23:32   what ended up happening was somebody got

01:23:35   him into an expensive recovery program

01:23:39   and now he pay my understanding is that

01:23:42   he pays a chaperone to tour with him

01:23:48   he's got like a den mother

01:23:49   yeah well and then so his relationship

01:23:53   to not drinking is that he's basically

01:23:56   in that in that metallica situation

01:23:58   where they're paying some guy all right

01:24:01   to sit in the room with them and be like

01:24:03   I'm hearing you say that you love the

01:24:07   cows key and i'm getting paid fifteen

01:24:11   thousand dollars a week to tell you why

01:24:16   don't you have some hummus and you know

01:24:18   just like a just over to something if

01:24:22   you see from outside you just go wow

01:24:24   this is not it's not tenable because as

01:24:29   soon as he can sneak away

01:24:31   he's going to take to oxycontin's and

01:24:33   then he's going to come back and he's

01:24:35   going to pretend to be sorry and he's

01:24:37   gonna do burger and that and maybe you

01:24:39   can keep that going you know maybe maybe

01:24:41   he can keep that going through the

01:24:42   through the life life of his bad there's

01:24:45   no there's nothing in anything that he

01:24:46   said to you that made it makes you think

01:24:48   that he actually wanted anything to be

01:24:50   that different know what he wanted was

01:24:53   exactly not to bug him any one of the

01:24:55   exact same thing I wanted which was to

01:24:58   be able to drink like the people in the

01:25:02   stories and to have all the to have all

01:25:07   the glamorous problems of the people in

01:25:08   the stories which is to say the

01:25:10   fistfights and the broken bottles and

01:25:13   look and the women who are so sad and

01:25:17   weeping over you but that he also wanted

01:25:22   it like in the stories to result in

01:25:25   appealed surprise winning novel in a

01:25:28   Grammy winning record

01:25:30   ultimately will cause everyone to

01:25:31   forgive him and he doesn't want to wake

01:25:34   up with a broken nose he wants to wake

01:25:37   up having given the other guy broken

01:25:39   nose you know he has a fantasy just like

01:25:42   I did of how it's going to play out and

01:25:44   when it starts not playing out like your

01:25:46   fantasy you feel like all you gotta do

01:25:49   is make some minor adjustment maybe

01:25:51   talked to some guy who's going to give

01:25:53   you a couple of secrets about how you

01:25:55   can you know a lot of people come in

01:25:57   today and they're like what's the secret

01:25:58   that will allow me to keep drinking and

01:26:01   partying and raging but stop waking up

01:26:03   with a broken nose

01:26:05   it's like well if you if you've woken up

01:26:07   with a broken nose

01:26:09   you're already past the point where the

01:26:11   secret is useful to you

01:26:14   there isn't one and and this is but this

01:26:17   is the problem in so much of life I and

01:26:19   this is why i always felt like a a wood

01:26:21   would help people and warned alcoholics

01:26:25   is that there are so many people whose

01:26:26   lives start to deviate from the fantasy

01:26:29   they had in mind and what they do is

01:26:33   cling to the fantasy harder and harder

01:26:35   and their lives resemble that fantasy

01:26:39   less and less and their reaction is to

01:26:43   just be disappointed and increasingly

01:26:45   bitter as they as they frantically grasp

01:26:50   at the fantasy of what the what they

01:26:51   thought it was going to be and and maybe

01:26:53   find more and more similar valid reasons

01:26:57   for why they've been denied that fantasy

01:26:59   that they kind of deserve sure it's the

01:27:02   man or its people could just be people

01:27:05   misunderstanding you right or it could

01:27:08   be it could you know i mean but I mean

01:27:09   with you the way described like that was

01:27:12   so good

01:27:12   the idea of being that you want to be

01:27:14   the one to punch somebody in the nose

01:27:15   not the guy gets punched in the nose not

01:27:17   either one of those a particularly

01:27:18   glamorous thing to be but you know you

01:27:21   could walk around thinking you're the

01:27:22   guy that throws the punches like you're

01:27:24   really you're really the guy who's just

01:27:25   I mean how many more broken noses will

01:27:27   it be

01:27:28   yeah right and the thing is that for

01:27:29   whatever character in your head that's

01:27:31   not your character that's not your kid

01:27:33   that's exactly right your character as a

01:27:35   net you see this a lot you see this I

01:27:38   mean this is what the whole wedding

01:27:40   planner industry is based on

01:27:43   that you know you have an idea that you

01:27:45   are the bride and the bride looks like

01:27:49   this on her wedding day and she feels

01:27:51   like this on her wedding day and so you

01:27:56   suddenly you're 26 years old and you

01:27:59   don't feel like that and you and then

01:28:02   you you meet somebody and you're like

01:28:04   okay you are cast in the role of the

01:28:06   prince and now you need to make me feel

01:28:08   like I'm supposed to feel on my wedding

01:28:09   day and the Prince character goes what

01:28:13   I've just got I'm just a guy that you

01:28:15   met in a bar and it's like no you're

01:28:18   posing one of those old-timey photos at

01:28:19   a amusement park like roaches put his

01:28:22   hat on but this add-on and now you're

01:28:24   the groom and what your job is to make

01:28:26   me feel like I'm supposed to feel on my

01:28:28   wedding day and so the beano like

01:28:30   there's a huge industry of people who

01:28:34   are there to make you look like you

01:28:35   imagined you were going to look on your

01:28:37   wedding day

01:28:37   who but there's very little you can do

01:28:40   about how you imagined you were going to

01:28:42   feel on your wedding

01:28:43   man that's good and so that is you know

01:28:47   a lot of people go into their wedding

01:28:49   with that already you know already

01:28:52   disappointed that they don't feel like

01:28:53   they thought they should feel and and

01:28:57   that's true of so much of what we do and

01:29:00   the hardest thing in the world to be

01:29:01   like is to basically be here now be like

01:29:04   right I am I am neither the guy that

01:29:07   throws the punch nor the guy who was

01:29:09   punched I am this guy who has been

01:29:12   punched and doesn't want it and not

01:29:17   Bukowski

01:29:19   and I mean I still at the problem with

01:29:22   me i didn't sober for 20 years and the

01:29:27   reason that anyone who's been sober 20

01:29:30   years would go to a meeting is that it

01:29:33   still is a present problem i wake up

01:29:37   every day and I still go well I don't

01:29:40   want to be the guy that gets punched I

01:29:42   want to be the guy that throws the punch

01:29:43   and it's like you know what guy

01:29:45   ok what you should be as a guy sitting I

01:29:48   guess right now listening to somebody

01:29:49   who's 60 days sober saying that same

01:29:52   thing and that will help you a little

01:29:55   bit get you know like it's a it's a it's

01:30:00   a it's a version of life it's a way of

01:30:02   looking at life that is really

01:30:05   unflinching um but it's the closest to

01:30:11   reality that I've it's the closest

01:30:12   philosophy of reality i've ever seen and

01:30:16   that's notthat doesn't appeal to a lot

01:30:18   of people myself included myself

01:30:21   included but there you know but there it

01:30:24   is you want you want reality i am

01:30:28   reality but your dollar in the basket

01:30:31   asshole

01:30:32   John that was good

01:30:36   swoosh