Roderick on the Line

Ep. 141: "Al's Yacht"


00:00:00   this episode of rock on the line is [TS]

00:00:01   sponsored by Squarespace visit dreaming [TS]

00:00:04   with Jeff dot-com to hear Squarespace is [TS]

00:00:06   collaboration with actor jeff bridges [TS]

00:00:08   and support of his new album sleeping [TS]

00:00:10   tapes pay any price you like to download [TS]

00:00:12   the album with all proceeds going to the [TS]

00:00:15   no Kid Hungry charity that's dreaming [TS]

00:00:17   with Jeff com Squarespace start here go [TS]

00:00:20   anywhere [TS]

00:00:22   [Music] [TS]

00:00:26   hello a John I'm Merlin how's it going [TS]

00:00:31   good [TS]

00:00:34   is it early it's a little early i mean [TS]

00:00:39   it's only know it's not early its normal [TS]

00:00:41   normals this isn't this is right in the [TS]

00:00:44   thick of normal time right now I'm I've [TS]

00:00:46   never been comfortable with this time of [TS]

00:00:48   day [TS]

00:00:48   yeah it's very super duper duper duper [TS]

00:00:51   normal [TS]

00:00:52   yeah I as i was driving into town I am [TS]

00:00:56   past a lot of trucks that are busy [TS]

00:00:59   little bit busy facilitating commerce [TS]

00:01:02   and just people walking around waving at [TS]

00:01:07   each other it's a it feels really super [TS]

00:01:11   real out there [TS]

00:01:12   yeah but what if you had to identify if [TS]

00:01:14   you can [TS]

00:01:15   what is your power time of day like when [TS]

00:01:17   do you really feel like you're most on [TS]

00:01:18   your game is there a consistent time a [TS]

00:01:20   day when you're like it's john time [TS]

00:01:21   let's do this i'm guessing like ten [TS]

00:01:24   o'clock ten pm-10 p.m. and i don't know [TS]

00:01:28   i'm just guessing you seem like we we [TS]

00:01:29   visited we should mention a little bit [TS]

00:01:31   later maybe we had a little visit [TS]

00:01:32   recently and you you're you're ready to [TS]

00:01:35   go you're drinking coffee at eight [TS]

00:01:38   o'clock you ready to go [TS]

00:01:40   that's bad policy but yeah I you know I [TS]

00:01:43   think that at between 8-11 p.m. i can [TS]

00:01:48   handle whatever whatever you throw at me [TS]

00:01:49   i start to taper off now [TS]

00:01:54   nowadays i start to taper off around two [TS]

00:01:56   am I used to taper off around four a.m. [TS]

00:01:58   and you know I can't say that I I can't [TS]

00:02:03   say that ten o'clock in the morning [TS]

00:02:04   isn't an optimal time it's not but i but [TS]

00:02:07   i feel i feel like i can't say it [TS]

00:02:09   no I understand i don't have you here we [TS]

00:02:11   we we were recording a little later than [TS]

00:02:13   usual because i had a call at eight [TS]

00:02:15   thirty and I really i would say blocked [TS]

00:02:19   or faked but like I I'm sink recently [TS]

00:02:22   not i don't know i got these stages and [TS]

00:02:25   there was absolutely time when I could [TS]

00:02:27   get up at four or five and be ready to [TS]

00:02:29   go but I don't know something's [TS]

00:02:31   happening i'm trying to sleep more and 8 [TS]

00:02:33   30 is like not powerstroke time for me [TS]

00:02:36   I realized this morning that you know I [TS]

00:02:41   like to sleep for sure but more than [TS]

00:02:43   anything I like to snuggle back in the [TS]

00:02:46   covers [TS]

00:02:46   after I should already be awake uh-huh [TS]

00:02:49   that is the greatest feeling in the [TS]

00:02:50   world and I and I will just burrow back [TS]

00:02:54   down in there not even really trying to [TS]

00:02:57   go back to sleep but just trying to [TS]

00:02:59   avoid the you know the shit wave of the [TS]

00:03:03   day even if the day is going to be [TS]

00:03:06   filled with great thing i I'm so right [TS]

00:03:09   there with you [TS]

00:03:10   I just go right back just great snuggle [TS]

00:03:12   back County doge coverage and wondering [TS]

00:03:15   if I have some kind of depressive thing [TS]

00:03:17   because i really like my bed more than [TS]

00:03:19   ever and i think that's the kind of [TS]

00:03:20   thing that depressed people say i really [TS]

00:03:23   like my bed I mean it's I'm very very [TS]

00:03:25   comfortable supine yeah well and and uh [TS]

00:03:29   i think that you know they're all those [TS]

00:03:32   people that feel like [TS]

00:03:33   sleep is this you know mal adaptation [TS]

00:03:37   because you know you do you lose a [TS]

00:03:41   30-year day to it every single day of [TS]

00:03:43   your life and if you look at your life [TS]

00:03:44   is a like a limited amount of time here [TS]

00:03:47   i could see where it would be [TS]

00:03:48   frustrating will be frustrating feel [TS]

00:03:52   like one third of it was just burned [TS]

00:03:54   right on some Bologna but for those of [TS]

00:03:58   us who feel like you're a either gonna [TS]

00:04:00   live forever or B are going to be [TS]

00:04:02   bio-engineered by by UFOs to live [TS]

00:04:07   forever feels like that third of your [TS]

00:04:11   life that you're spending just sort of [TS]

00:04:13   powering down is absolutely a necessity [TS]

00:04:17   and and not just a necessity but like [TS]

00:04:19   some of the best times of some of the [TS]

00:04:21   greatest times I I agree and I don't [TS]

00:04:25   know I've been interested in watching uh [TS]

00:04:29   I think especially in the last Lisa and [TS]

00:04:31   I've been aware of in the last like 10 [TS]

00:04:33   years there's been a lot of interest in [TS]

00:04:35   all these the sleep packing right all [TS]

00:04:37   these different ways that you could take [TS]

00:04:39   these little naps trying to split up [TS]

00:04:41   into two or three sleeps a day there's [TS]

00:04:43   the people saying now that you know [TS]

00:04:45   until very recently like the eighteen [TS]

00:04:47   hundreds or second sleep [TS]

00:04:49   yeah you know about [TS]

00:04:50   asleep I'm all over second sleep you [TS]

00:04:53   tell people what that means i think it's [TS]

00:04:54   an interesting idea [TS]

00:04:55   well then that in a time before [TS]

00:04:57   electricity right you would go to bed [TS]

00:05:00   wooden when the when the Sun went down i [TS]

00:05:02   go to bed at like 730 or eight ya go to [TS]

00:05:04   sleep you sleep in and then sometime in [TS]

00:05:07   the middle of the night you wake up [TS]

00:05:08   refreshed and you have this interregnum [TS]

00:05:13   in the middle of the night between 11 [TS]

00:05:17   and 3 or something or made 12 12 12 and [TS]

00:05:19   it's like you know people used to be [TS]

00:05:21   awake and I've read people saying that [TS]

00:05:24   like from like 12 2 people just wake up [TS]

00:05:27   they would they would talk to people [TS]

00:05:30   getting everybody all the adults would [TS]

00:05:32   wake up and you can have your sexual [TS]

00:05:35   intercourse then hmm you don't know [TS]

00:05:37   visit with your neighbors it with your [TS]

00:05:39   neighbors exactly [TS]

00:05:40   yeah it's kind of a kind of a hot time [TS]

00:05:42   kind of a kind of a kind of like I i [TS]

00:05:46   imagine if I were truly living in a [TS]

00:05:48   second sleep dominated culture that I [TS]

00:05:50   would rule the selection second sleep [TS]

00:05:52   era hours i would be one that's right i [TS]

00:05:56   would really be on fire during that time [TS]

00:05:58   that's when he starts to be that's when [TS]

00:06:00   you start scheduling your calls [TS]

00:06:01   that's exactly right and the thing is [TS]

00:06:03   you know that's it's not when you're [TS]

00:06:04   gonna you're probably not during your [TS]

00:06:06   your your midnight hour probably not [TS]

00:06:09   gonna be roaming around the town you're [TS]

00:06:12   probably gonna be confined to your [TS]

00:06:13   neighborhood but that's when you really [TS]

00:06:15   get to know your your core people [TS]

00:06:19   yeah that's what Gary I wouldn't be [TS]

00:06:23   visiting with Gary I would be out i'll [TS]

00:06:25   be going to matchmake would be out fire [TS]

00:06:27   hosing Gary but you know it's a like I i [TS]

00:06:32   routinely throughout my whole life have [TS]

00:06:35   spent those precisely those hours 12-2 [TS]

00:06:37   12 to 23 those were my roaming times [TS]

00:06:41   that was when i was out screwing around [TS]

00:06:43   and like you know peering over fences [TS]

00:06:46   and and learning about the world [TS]

00:06:49   you know as crazy as you think about I [TS]

00:06:51   think about when I was in college and [TS]

00:06:53   those college and just right after [TS]

00:06:55   college which was my peak doing stuff [TS]

00:06:57   years ago I was always doing something I [TS]

00:06:59   was going somewhere i'll go to places in [TS]

00:07:01   a day [TS]

00:07:01   likely because you got you a lot to do a [TS]

00:07:03   lot to do [TS]

00:07:04   oh I was the dread pirate roberts had [TS]

00:07:07   that thanks to accomplish but you know I [TS]

00:07:10   remember first hearing that phrase disco [TS]

00:07:12   nap for somebody to say oh we're going [TS]

00:07:15   out tonight I gotta catch a disco now [TS]

00:07:16   you know and in my apartment that meant [TS]

00:07:19   you would lay down at six or seven [TS]

00:07:21   o'clock sleep 4 1230 hours hopefully [TS]

00:07:25   awake refreshed and then go out and tear [TS]

00:07:27   the house down [TS]

00:07:28   well you know that's the Spanish model [TS]

00:07:30   right to sleep today they really [TS]

00:07:33   everything kind of just everything [TS]

00:07:34   really shut down in the afternoon is [TS]

00:07:35   that like a thing that really it used to [TS]

00:07:37   be a fan I think spain now feels a lot [TS]

00:07:40   of pressure from the rest of the [TS]

00:07:41   european community to to standardize [TS]

00:07:45   their practices that people are still [TS]

00:07:46   blogging during those hours [TS]

00:07:48   well yeah I'm i imagine that there's [TS]

00:07:50   still quite a bit of blogging but when i [TS]

00:07:52   first went to Spain in the eighties it [TS]

00:07:55   completely shut down in the afternoon [TS]

00:07:58   but that was because everybody partied [TS]

00:08:00   until four o'clock in the morning right [TS]

00:08:02   and then also got up it and open their [TS]

00:08:05   shops and in the morning so then yeah [TS]

00:08:08   the afternoon they just call everybody [TS]

00:08:11   else do you feel like these you feel [TS]

00:08:13   like these hacks thusly packs are good [TS]

00:08:17   ok you know it's not a man I i have i've [TS]

00:08:19   got i got real mixed feelings about it [TS]

00:08:21   because i am very I don't know here's [TS]

00:08:24   think maybe we've evolved maybe it is as [TS]

00:08:26   you say a male adaptation because you [TS]

00:08:29   know but they're even going on the sleep [TS]

00:08:31   stuff there are so many people trying to [TS]

00:08:32   find out the truth about how we should [TS]

00:08:34   be living rice so on the one hand you've [TS]

00:08:37   got to get you actually read the paleo [TS]

00:08:39   book no okay well you're good i'm not [TS]

00:08:42   interested [TS]

00:08:43   I i counted ten chapters before they [TS]

00:08:45   talked about what you should buy at the [TS]

00:08:47   grocery store because it was so [TS]

00:08:49   jam-packed full been misremembering this [TS]

00:08:52   but I remember it being like okay you [TS]

00:08:55   sold me i bought the book tell me what [TS]

00:08:57   to buy everybody know they had to walk [TS]

00:08:58   you through all of this science about k [TS]

00:09:02   and fire and light and like they really [TS]

00:09:05   felt like that got to set this up not [TS]

00:09:07   unlike in some ways like the Atkins diet [TS]

00:09:08   to diets in that case that really to [TS]

00:09:11   lifestyles especially paleo spend a [TS]

00:09:13   lifestyle it's it's all of the enemy [TS]

00:09:15   gets into your sleep it gets into [TS]

00:09:16   exercise it gets into beyond what you [TS]

00:09:19   eat but like the variety of what you eat [TS]

00:09:20   and why because that's the way our [TS]

00:09:23   Paleolithic ancestors supposedly lived [TS]

00:09:26   setting aside whether or not that's [TS]

00:09:28   necessarily a good model for somebody in [TS]

00:09:30   the 21st century [TS]

00:09:31   haha alright i think people are very [TS]

00:09:33   interested in that and here's the thing [TS]

00:09:35   with sleep is is what I was just gonna [TS]

00:09:36   say minute ago I feel like you know it's [TS]

00:09:40   like if you have never been without a [TS]

00:09:43   certain kind of malady you might not see [TS]

00:09:47   it as a malady you see it as a condition [TS]

00:09:49   of life right now so if you if you've [TS]

00:09:52   never had great vision you go OK vision [TS]

00:09:54   is good enough right but then my glasses [TS]

00:09:56   and you're like holy shit like this is a [TS]

00:09:59   I can see things now like I got any [TS]

00:10:01   lines and things this isn't it amazing [TS]

00:10:04   bitten by a radioactive spider and you [TS]

00:10:06   can see infrared that's right you're [TS]

00:10:08   like a daughter uses all right by [TS]

00:10:10   climbing up a building and and I guess [TS]

00:10:12   what I'm getting at is the i often [TS]

00:10:14   wonder there are so many people I've met [TS]

00:10:16   who could pay lip service to sleep and [TS]

00:10:18   i'm asleep obsessive but there are so [TS]

00:10:20   many people who pay lip-service sleeps [TS]

00:10:21   we're going to good sleep they never do [TS]

00:10:23   and I wonder how many of those people [TS]

00:10:25   have never actually gotten the benefits [TS]

00:10:27   of getting a decent amount of sleep and [TS]

00:10:28   they're just big grown accustomed to [TS]

00:10:29   being constantly shagged out so I think [TS]

00:10:32   having the conversation about whether [TS]

00:10:34   there are things we can do better is [TS]

00:10:35   good i tend to start scooping toward the [TS]

00:10:38   door when too much science or science [TS]

00:10:41   gets introduced don't know [TS]

00:10:44   now listen there is nobody in the world [TS]

00:10:45   who loves constructing a theory based on [TS]

00:10:50   two books he read and an intro to [TS]

00:10:54   anthropology class that he took in the [TS]

00:10:55   eighties hey more than me right I i love [TS]

00:11:01   that shit I like to walk in the forest [TS]

00:11:03   and see a rock and say you know [TS]

00:11:06   that rock probably insert bullshit [TS]

00:11:09   theory here [TS]

00:11:10   igneous and so so on the one hand like [TS]

00:11:15   the all these movements the paleo [TS]

00:11:17   movement the like pad heritage chicken [TS]

00:11:20   crowd the simple chickens in the yard [TS]

00:11:25   yeah but we got here not shit not just [TS]

00:11:27   chickens you don't want to just go out [TS]

00:11:29   and get some dumb chicken from Purdue [TS]

00:11:31   you want to have a chicken that's got [TS]

00:11:33   like fur write some chicken some some [TS]

00:11:37   chicken that has bet as only a few small [TS]

00:11:40   pockets still exists on the shetland [TS]

00:11:43   islands and you can buy one for seven [TS]

00:11:44   hundred dollars like a punk rock chicken [TS]

00:11:46   now it's kind of it's kind of fucked up [TS]

00:11:48   looking like a smile his chicken where [TS]

00:11:50   they can't walk and it's wet its its its [TS]

00:11:54   eggs or orange little bit list but uh [TS]

00:11:57   but it's a fantastic you know that you [TS]

00:11:59   see though there are places in portland [TS]

00:12:01   where you walk into the yard and you're [TS]

00:12:05   like someone has has a has used sorcery [TS]

00:12:08   to animate mop heads and they're running [TS]

00:12:12   around this yard and then you realize oh [TS]

00:12:14   shit those are chickens the chickens [TS]

00:12:15   that look like a that you know that look [TS]

00:12:19   like sheep dogs anyway heritage chickens [TS]

00:12:23   all these movements beard oil i feel [TS]

00:12:26   like i had feel like in a way i support [TS]

00:12:29   the the premise which is which is you [TS]

00:12:34   know this that the idea that humans have [TS]

00:12:37   been around only so long we spent 99% of [TS]

00:12:41   that time adapting to a certain kind of [TS]

00:12:44   world and then in recent memory [TS]

00:12:47   we just completely invented a whole new [TS]

00:12:49   way of living and now we expect [TS]

00:12:51   ourselves to be able to live in this new [TS]

00:12:53   way I support that [TS]

00:12:55   yeah I'm going down i am actually down [TS]

00:12:57   with certain aspects of that big time [TS]

00:12:59   yeah but the but the problem for me is [TS]

00:13:01   when somebody starts being prescriptive [TS]

00:13:05   and prescriptive [TS]

00:13:08   about like actual what time to wake up [TS]

00:13:12   in the morning and what combination of [TS]

00:13:14   foods to eat because that does as you [TS]

00:13:17   say that veers into pseudoscience or [TS]

00:13:21   like we used a a spectrograph to [TS]

00:13:25   identify the contents of the of that [TS]

00:13:28   Austrian mummy that they found in a [TS]

00:13:32   glacier whose name is spayed soul or [TS]

00:13:36   something i forgot what they called him [TS]

00:13:38   but urien oh ah ah ah be special [TS]

00:13:43   anyway this guy you know they have he [TS]

00:13:46   realized that he had that his stomach [TS]

00:13:48   contained you know five different kinds [TS]

00:13:50   of millet and some shoe leather and then [TS]

00:13:53   yeah we should be eating shoe leather [TS]

00:13:56   yeah they are just much trained monkeys [TS]

00:14:00   none by the electric system I you so i [TS]

00:14:04   don't know i don't know where the line [TS]

00:14:06   is Merlin between you and me [TS]

00:14:08   advising people to you know to think [TS]

00:14:10   outside the box right and and you know [TS]

00:14:15   and the point at which somebody offers [TS]

00:14:17   us a book deal to put all of our ideas [TS]

00:14:20   into into like a life system i know [TS]

00:14:23   everyone box issues that should give us [TS]

00:14:25   a you to contract at which point we [TS]

00:14:28   would be obligated to start talking [TS]

00:14:29   about this stuff like we really new and [TS]

00:14:32   really a plan yeah exactly right and the [TS]

00:14:34   inside here's here's one like I guess [TS]

00:14:36   met a point that is if you think about [TS]

00:14:37   it like everybody's got their reasons [TS]

00:14:39   for everything and it's funny how few [TS]

00:14:41   things important this could be partly [TS]

00:14:43   because of our kind of argumentative [TS]

00:14:45   culture it could be about identity [TS]

00:14:46   politics but it's kind of funny how how [TS]

00:14:49   few people are content to just shrug and [TS]

00:14:53   go yeah you know it's a thing i do I [TS]

00:14:55   like it and I don't know if i'll always [TS]

00:14:57   liked it i'm not really worried about it [TS]

00:14:58   like it's just the thing i'm doing i [TS]

00:15:00   know that if i get more sleep and I try [TS]

00:15:05   to get 10,000 steps a day and I avoid [TS]

00:15:08   eating massive amounts of bread and [TS]

00:15:10   drinking huge beers you know I don't [TS]

00:15:12   need a scientist to tell me that makes [TS]

00:15:13   me feel a little better and I don't need [TS]

00:15:16   a persuasive theory or paper to prove it [TS]

00:15:18   like wrong wrong you have got them here [TS]

00:15:21   yeah i got the data right here yeah yeah [TS]

00:15:26   but you know there are some things like [TS]

00:15:27   you know one thing we've that other [TS]

00:15:28   program that that you've been on we [TS]

00:15:30   talked about is that I in this is not [TS]

00:15:33   directed toward you because I know you [TS]

00:15:34   like to look at ebay in bed but i do [TS]

00:15:37   think for example the way we expose [TS]

00:15:38   ourselves to light can actually have a [TS]

00:15:40   big impact personally like I like the [TS]

00:15:42   room to be really dark i try to minimize [TS]

00:15:44   the amount this doesn't work very well [TS]

00:15:46   because the TV but i try to minimize the [TS]

00:15:48   amount of bright blue light i get before [TS]

00:15:50   bedtime because I think that's telling [TS]

00:15:51   my brain to be awake [TS]

00:15:52   that's what I I you know there's [TS]

00:15:53   probably tons of science on that I just [TS]

00:15:55   feel like anecdotally for me you know [TS]

00:15:58   like so much stuff in life i can go if I [TS]

00:16:00   do this rather than that [TS]

00:16:01   this tends to work out better I don't [TS]

00:16:03   have a paper for it but that's just the [TS]

00:16:04   thing i do and for the most part most of [TS]

00:16:07   my I mean if it were not for this [TS]

00:16:08   program where you and I have discussed [TS]

00:16:10   some some large quantity of the ins and [TS]

00:16:15   outs of both of our lives in such a way [TS]

00:16:17   that it cannot it can no longer be [TS]

00:16:19   claimed that i that i am a secret from [TS]

00:16:23   the world but there are still a lot of [TS]

00:16:26   things that I just keep quiet about [TS]

00:16:29   because to even say them out loud is to [TS]

00:16:33   be is to suggest that you are advancing [TS]

00:16:36   a theory when in fact you're just you [TS]

00:16:39   know I like to just say things out loud [TS]

00:16:41   i like to just say ideas out loud and [TS]

00:16:43   see see what happens and for me I [TS]

00:16:45   honestly discovered seven years ago that [TS]

00:16:49   I just can't have a TV [TS]

00:16:50   I can't have one that isn't it's not a [TS]

00:16:52   moral problem i odd that i have with [TS]

00:16:55   other people adore I mean it kind of [TS]

00:16:57   ends up being one because the TV versus [TS]

00:17:00   non TV people are at such great odds [TS]

00:17:02   with each other and the TV people are [TS]

00:17:05   the majority and they really are [TS]

00:17:08   defensive like any somebody it like it's [TS]

00:17:10   like religion or anything we're like [TS]

00:17:12   just the fact that you quietly are doing [TS]

00:17:15   something differently from somebody else [TS]

00:17:17   for whatever reason is tacitly something [TS]

00:17:20   to be attacked and fixed by the outright [TS]

00:17:22   and whatever that it does that's the [TS]

00:17:23   thing is the people i think what you're [TS]

00:17:24   saying if I get it is like it doesn't [TS]

00:17:26   matter what that thing is it could be [TS]

00:17:28   anything no matter what you do you [TS]

00:17:30   should never fucking do John Roderick [TS]

00:17:31   never post a screenshot [TS]

00:17:34   of the homepage on your iPhone because [TS]

00:17:37   you are gonna hear from every single [TS]

00:17:40   person in the world about like what an [TS]

00:17:42   idiot you are [TS]

00:17:43   for every decision that you've made why [TS]

00:17:45   don't you put their what you have that [TS]

00:17:46   happen when you have two apps [TS]

00:17:48   why would you put in a footer why would [TS]

00:17:49   you put that in a folder i like to keep [TS]

00:17:50   around open at the bottom there under [TS]

00:17:52   derp I feel like people who follow me [TS]

00:17:55   enough to look at a picture that I [TS]

00:17:58   posted on my home screen wouldn't [TS]

00:18:00   realize that I was completely [TS]

00:18:01   unreceptive tonight kind of talk that [TS]

00:18:03   way to me would try it so it is with [TS]

00:18:06   something like that is it's so innocent [TS]

00:18:08   and like I just at the risk of repeating [TS]

00:18:10   here it feels like you know I mean I i [TS]

00:18:14   had this realization a few years ago [TS]

00:18:16   that when it comes to stuff like social [TS]

00:18:18   media that it's like to think it's about [TS]

00:18:20   you know what you have to say but the [TS]

00:18:23   thing that makes it social rather than [TS]

00:18:24   just media is that it's really about [TS]

00:18:26   what other people have to say about you [TS]

00:18:27   know anything any utterance becomes [TS]

00:18:31   grist for any kind of a weird ax to [TS]

00:18:34   grind and it immediately becomes this [TS]

00:18:37   toxic game of telephone we're like all [TS]

00:18:39   the sudden now like your account of [TS]

00:18:41   revolutionary because you have Calendar [TS]

00:18:42   apps people who haven't read the thing [TS]

00:18:44   that you wrote only but but only read [TS]

00:18:47   the comments that other people had on it [TS]

00:18:48   are making assessments about what you [TS]

00:18:51   said and what you mean if you are [TS]

00:18:52   yeah that I get that a lot actually [TS]

00:18:54   people you know people on Twitter that [TS]

00:18:57   don't follow me and have obviously not [TS]

00:18:59   read the thing that other people are [TS]

00:19:00   yelling at me about and they just pile [TS]

00:19:02   on yelling at me you know they and those [TS]

00:19:04   people are always the amplifiers right [TS]

00:19:06   the ones yeah well my friend down [TS]

00:19:08   Stephen Frank is a developer and he he [TS]

00:19:12   had a pretty popular blog and he turned [TS]

00:19:14   on comments and got frustrating so he [TS]

00:19:16   wrote a little thing that said okay come [TS]

00:19:18   in and you hit post comment and you go [TS]

00:19:20   to this you go to a page and it says [TS]

00:19:21   okay here's something like this is [TS]

00:19:24   something like here's five sentences [TS]

00:19:25   which two of these sentences appeared in [TS]

00:19:28   my article haha oh good you have [TS]

00:19:31   correctly answered that it yet that [TS]

00:19:33   correctly answer that question in order [TS]

00:19:35   to be able to post a comment oh that's [TS]

00:19:37   so good it's so good i feel like that [TS]

00:19:39   should be a test that should be at a [TS]

00:19:41   blanket test on the Internet [TS]

00:19:44   but I I I get in I i get in a lot of hot [TS]

00:19:50   water [TS]

00:19:51   uh about our contemporary culture [TS]

00:19:54   because obviously i love it obviously [TS]

00:19:56   i'm participating in it I really but but [TS]

00:19:58   I have I have I have threshold so i have [TS]

00:20:01   i have bomb like I'm I'm only willing to [TS]

00:20:05   go so far and and it does feel sometimes [TS]

00:20:08   like I am secretly practicing a Quaker [TS]

00:20:10   religion or some other you know or a [TS]

00:20:13   sect us a sect of Quakerism and to say [TS]

00:20:17   even the most mundane thing about how i [TS]

00:20:21   actually live is to be a is to be [TS]

00:20:26   judging and criticizing the way everyone [TS]

00:20:28   else agrees is the proper large one is [TS]

00:20:31   I'm saying a declarative statement here [TS]

00:20:33   so part one of that is therefore [TS]

00:20:36   everyone who isn't doing this the way [TS]

00:20:39   that I'm doing it is doing it wrong and [TS]

00:20:41   PE please feel free at this point to [TS]

00:20:43   jump in and tell me what I'm doing wrong [TS]

00:20:45   in life write that article i wrote a [TS]

00:20:48   couple of whatever that was about not [TS]

00:20:49   being a fan [TS]

00:20:50   yeah the number of replies I got to that [TS]

00:20:53   that where the where the gist of the [TS]

00:20:56   reply was you are an unfun person you [TS]

00:21:02   don't know how to have fun and I feel [TS]

00:21:04   sorry for you for not being able to have [TS]

00:21:07   fun [TS]

00:21:08   I mean that that was a that was maybe [TS]

00:21:10   one of the top five [TS]

00:21:12   like most favorite or something or no no [TS]

00:21:16   not me know a top-five a team at akali [TS]

00:21:20   came on with once came up came up a lot [TS]

00:21:23   of times I mean it's just I wrote an [TS]

00:21:25   article one time about like people think [TS]

00:21:27   that rock musicians are like you know [TS]

00:21:30   they get laid all the time and are like [TS]

00:21:32   sex teens but in fact here's what an [TS]

00:21:35   actual day looks like for a rock [TS]

00:21:37   musician and there's not actually [TS]

00:21:39   there's not really a lot of time to do [TS]

00:21:40   drugs and and uh you know and have [TS]

00:21:44   intercourse no more than any other [TS]

00:21:45   brilliant business person [TS]

00:21:47   yeah right here you are the account as [TS]

00:21:49   accounts get more pussy than Sinatra [TS]

00:21:50   certain accounts but you know at [TS]

00:21:55   at two o'clock in the morning you are [TS]

00:21:56   schlepping your gear out to a cold van [TS]

00:21:58   and thinking about where the motel is [TS]

00:22:01   you're gonna stay and so I wrote this [TS]

00:22:03   article and I got a lot of great replies [TS]

00:22:06   from other rock musicians saying thank [TS]

00:22:08   you my god thank you for saying what we [TS]

00:22:10   all know but no one believes right but [TS]

00:22:13   then I got a ton of a that this was this [TS]

00:22:16   is back to your your seduction community [TS]

00:22:19   lot of replies from people they're just [TS]

00:22:21   like well you just obviously don't know [TS]

00:22:22   how to close the deal you don't know how [TS]

00:22:24   to knit chicks like I don't [TS]

00:22:27   apparently that's what all the way thank [TS]

00:22:29   you for your text but also uh yeah i [TS]

00:22:33   don't i don't know how to have fun [TS]

00:22:34   either because i'm not a fan of but that [TS]

00:22:38   you know you're our unity you know it's [TS]

00:22:40   I can see why people disagree with you i [TS]

00:22:43   guess i can see why people get mad but [TS]

00:22:44   like it's like I I at one point I i just [TS]

00:22:47   i would get so frustrated with this a [TS]

00:22:49   certain kind of attitude and I know it's [TS]

00:22:51   not intentional but when you say that [TS]

00:22:53   hey here's a here's my 10 favorite songs [TS]

00:22:56   of the year [TS]

00:22:58   I'm full of joy and down and like most [TS]

00:23:00   your comments will begin with you forgot [TS]

00:23:02   no I don't forget it i didn't put on [TS]

00:23:05   there it's my list [TS]

00:23:07   it's just these are 10 things i like is [TS]

00:23:08   that problematic [TS]

00:23:10   yeah yeah you forgot this thing that's [TS]

00:23:12   the opposite of all those things that [TS]

00:23:14   you listed and then somebody goes to [TS]

00:23:16   Selena guys let's go find saying [TS]

00:23:18   somebody said something like you know [TS]

00:23:19   why why didn't you use this particular [TS]

00:23:22   Mac application or like you know why [TS]

00:23:25   didn't you become a video blogger and my [TS]

00:23:29   understanding responses I don't know why [TS]

00:23:31   am I not a potted fern like how how do [TS]

00:23:34   you say why you didn't do something and [TS]

00:23:36   then you have a conversation about that [TS]

00:23:38   like why didn't you put your this [TS]

00:23:40   application in this place on the phone [TS]

00:23:42   yeah that's like it because I'm a bad [TS]

00:23:44   person why didn't I go to the Air Force [TS]

00:23:46   Academy and then become a lieutenant [TS]

00:23:49   colonel [TS]

00:23:50   I can totally grasp tell you now I feel [TS]

00:23:52   like I feel like what one of the prob [TS]

00:23:55   not problems but I opportunity stakes [TS]

00:23:58   opportunity stakes [TS]

00:23:59   Oh a big part of the enthusiasm i have [TS]

00:24:03   for interacting with the culture comes [TS]

00:24:05   out of out of like deep memory of [TS]

00:24:10   feeling outside and wrong for years and [TS]

00:24:15   years and years just feeling out of step [TS]

00:24:17   with my peers just like there's never [TS]

00:24:20   anywhere where you go oh I have found my [TS]

00:24:22   place for me know that's what i'm saying [TS]

00:24:26   i like that no matter even in the most [TS]

00:24:27   hospitable environment I've still always [TS]

00:24:29   felt like an outsider and I think that [TS]

00:24:31   that is not typical of people I feel [TS]

00:24:33   like most people do feel like they find [TS]

00:24:36   their place and are in their place or or [TS]

00:24:39   or due to a greater degree than I am [TS]

00:24:41   because they play team sports and they [TS]

00:24:43   are made go on the internet and talk [TS]

00:24:45   about their favorite TV shows with each [TS]

00:24:46   other I mean I I go on I when I bought [TS]

00:24:50   my suburban I was like on the chevy [TS]

00:24:52   truck blogs trying to figure out above [TS]

00:24:56   about what kind of differential oil i [TS]

00:24:59   wanted to use it seems so simple and the [TS]

00:25:02   guys the guys that are on there I'm you [TS]

00:25:06   know posting 40 times a day just about [TS]

00:25:10   like what kind of torque wrench you want [TS]

00:25:13   to use you realize like oh these people [TS]

00:25:16   have found their duck they are here and [TS]

00:25:18   and what they have a tremendous [TS]

00:25:20   knowledge about how to rebuild the [TS]

00:25:23   undercarriage of a of a vintage truck [TS]

00:25:26   and they're here all day like they can [TS]

00:25:28   they got all the time in the world right [TS]

00:25:30   to talk about this stuff and that so [TS]

00:25:32   when I when i'm interacting with the [TS]

00:25:34   culture i feel i feel like my success [TS]

00:25:39   let's call it success at navigating at [TS]

00:25:45   navigating the handicaps that I had as a [TS]

00:25:47   as a young person there were a lot of [TS]

00:25:50   times in the course of my life where I [TS]

00:25:52   was at a crossroads and it was very [TS]

00:25:55   clear to me that I could I could go the [TS]

00:25:57   wrong way and be [TS]

00:26:00   permanent drug addict a dead person a up [TS]

00:26:07   am a worse than that like a bitter guy [TS]

00:26:10   who had compromised just a few small [TS]

00:26:15   compromises but that resulted in me [TS]

00:26:18   doing something that I didn't want to do [TS]

00:26:20   the rest of my life and then not being [TS]

00:26:22   able to turn left right let alone u-turn [TS]

00:26:26   yeah i mean that part of part of it is [TS]

00:26:28   like to have to have realized in [TS]

00:26:30   retrospect that you have rung the bell [TS]

00:26:32   they can't be on wrong right that you [TS]

00:26:34   are that you are now bound by [TS]

00:26:36   commitments and chains that prohibit you [TS]

00:26:39   from from or or or you feel prohibit you [TS]

00:26:43   from doing anything to change your life [TS]

00:26:45   except make an incredibly dramatic [TS]

00:26:47   gesture right like my grandfather made [TS]

00:26:50   multiple correct incredibly dramatic [TS]

00:26:52   gestures to the effect of like going out [TS]

00:26:55   for a pack of cigarettes are not coming [TS]

00:26:57   back [TS]

00:26:58   and every time I open the newspaper and [TS]

00:27:00   there's a story about somebody that's [TS]

00:27:01   like well it was a murder-suicide they [TS]

00:27:04   killed themselves their four kids and [TS]

00:27:06   their wife and it's just like well they [TS]

00:27:08   obviously didn't see that there was some [TS]

00:27:10   other thing they could have done and [TS]

00:27:13   that's you know that's tragic and [TS]

00:27:14   obviously in my case I wouldn't have [TS]

00:27:16   resorted to something like that but [TS]

00:27:17   there were so many times along the way [TS]

00:27:19   where I was out of step with the world [TS]

00:27:22   and the choice eventually was to either [TS]

00:27:26   say well the world is right and so I [TS]

00:27:30   have to die a little and be part of the [TS]

00:27:35   world or to say every time as exhausting [TS]

00:27:39   as this is as as much at as much as this [TS]

00:27:42   feels like punishment i have to get up [TS]

00:27:44   and do that and follow my instinct [TS]

00:27:48   against the world and ideally I don't [TS]

00:27:54   like it kind of had you one over the [TS]

00:27:55   other [TS]

00:27:56   it had to you know because too because [TS]

00:27:58   to do the thing to to make even the [TS]

00:28:01   initial compromise of like well isn't [TS]

00:28:03   there a way that I can be myself and be [TS]

00:28:05   in the world who is just is to just go [TS]

00:28:08   with the world you know that is to two [TS]

00:28:10   step is to decide that the world is [TS]

00:28:12   right [TS]

00:28:12   and that somewhere within the world I [TS]

00:28:15   can carve out some little cubby for [TS]

00:28:17   myself and you can't I mean it if you're [TS]

00:28:21   if you made a certain way right you have [TS]

00:28:22   to just say no in this situation I am [TS]

00:28:26   going to not presume that I'm right in [TS]

00:28:28   the world is wrong but just presume that [TS]

00:28:30   the world is on a separate on a on a [TS]

00:28:33   parallel track and I have to honor I [TS]

00:28:37   have to honor my instincts because [TS]

00:28:39   because i do I did work hard to to train [TS]

00:28:43   myself I did I did educate myself and [TS]

00:28:47   now it's telling me to go this way and I [TS]

00:28:49   have to honor them so I do consider that [TS]

00:28:53   a success because I'm here now and all [TS]

00:28:57   of the all of the frustration and the [TS]

00:28:58   bitterness i have it I still I still can [TS]

00:29:03   reflect and imagine what it would've [TS]

00:29:05   been like if at 32 years old I'd said [TS]

00:29:09   well i have to give up playing rock [TS]

00:29:11   music it's not working out or well you [TS]

00:29:14   know I should I should marry this girl [TS]

00:29:17   or well you know this is I you know [TS]

00:29:21   really i'm giving being given an [TS]

00:29:22   opportunity to train to be a stockbroker [TS]

00:29:26   and that's an opportunity that I would [TS]

00:29:30   be a fool to turn down who and so I'm [TS]

00:29:33   going to go into the stockbroker [TS]

00:29:34   training programs almost like the world [TS]

00:29:37   is maybe not the world is [TS]

00:29:40   unintentionally casting you to say like [TS]

00:29:42   okay well we think you're ready for this [TS]

00:29:44   2 testily set aside childish things or [TS]

00:29:48   however you want to think of it but to [TS]

00:29:49   if you can let go of this part of you [TS]

00:29:51   then now you get to belong and you get [TS]

00:29:54   to be part of this system [TS]

00:29:56   yeah are you ready for that right and [TS]

00:29:58   and over and over like that what the [TS]

00:30:00   opportunity to join the military when I [TS]

00:30:02   was young [TS]

00:30:03   it's it's really cut and dried at that [TS]

00:30:06   age it's like do you have money for [TS]

00:30:07   college [TS]

00:30:08   do you have do you want to be a success [TS]

00:30:10   in life where you want to be some some [TS]

00:30:12   flop [TS]

00:30:13   and thanks to everyone you want [TS]

00:30:15   insurance a college education and become [TS]

00:30:17   a homeowner or do you want to just hope [TS]

00:30:19   this gas station attendant job really [TS]

00:30:22   picks up [TS]

00:30:23   yeah I'm for a lot of people that's very [TS]

00:30:24   seductive my stockbroker trainer [TS]

00:30:27   training program i was working as a [TS]

00:30:32   clerk in a stock brokerage a brokerage [TS]

00:30:35   firm rather called Piper Jaffray and I [TS]

00:30:40   was the place where they kept all the [TS]

00:30:41   documents on the best floor [TS]

00:30:42   yeah that's right and I was you know and [TS]

00:30:44   I was the clerk and it and they kept [TS]

00:30:46   giving me more and more responsibility [TS]

00:30:47   and pretty soon I was taking 14 million [TS]

00:30:50   dollars worth of bearer bonds down to [TS]

00:30:51   the bank and you know and I had [TS]

00:30:53   relationships with all these people that [TS]

00:30:56   I had relationships with the people at [TS]

00:30:57   the at the financial desk at the bank [TS]

00:31:00   and I had a new some of our clients i [TS]

00:31:03   was starting to make my way up in this [TS]

00:31:05   firm and I was drinking it on drugs and [TS]

00:31:10   and and very very very much like living [TS]

00:31:15   in that world as a kind of you know in [TS]

00:31:19   that in that way we're like I'm just [TS]

00:31:20   working on my novel man you know i'm [TS]

00:31:22   here i'm doing this work but i'm just [TS]

00:31:25   watching you people who actually work [TS]

00:31:27   here because i'm working on my i'm [TS]

00:31:30   working on on on another level [TS]

00:31:32   yeah almost like they have kind of given [TS]

00:31:34   up or something well or just you know I [TS]

00:31:37   wit or committed [TS]

00:31:38   yeah i was 25 years old and I had all [TS]

00:31:40   the had all the arrogance of a 25 year [TS]

00:31:42   old who felt like yeah you guys you know [TS]

00:31:44   you work in an office I come to an [TS]

00:31:47   office to get to gather material you [TS]

00:31:50   work in an office and I'm a person but [TS]

00:31:52   then they started doing the thing where [TS]

00:31:54   like you you're great at this he would [TS]

00:31:56   make a great broker have you ever [TS]

00:31:57   considered being a broker [TS]

00:31:59   Wow and I was like well i think probably [TS]

00:32:03   yes i had i think it because i have [TS]

00:32:05   considered doing every job and I imagine [TS]

00:32:08   because i'm gonna live forever that of [TS]

00:32:09   course i would be a stockbroker at some [TS]

00:32:11   point and they were like well let you [TS]

00:32:15   know that we do have a broker training [TS]

00:32:17   program and you kind of have a leg up [TS]

00:32:20   you would be able to kind of walk right [TS]

00:32:21   into this [TS]

00:32:22   Wow and I was like [TS]

00:32:24   this seems pretty dynamic like this is [TS]

00:32:27   an exciting turn of events and so as [TS]

00:32:31   part of the as part of the like [TS]

00:32:34   enticement they said well there's gonna [TS]

00:32:40   be a little party on al algae ott this [TS]

00:32:46   weekend [TS]

00:32:47   al being one of the older established [TS]

00:32:49   brokers how do you want to come to the [TS]

00:32:53   party [TS]

00:32:53   I mean you're you'll be the youngest guy [TS]

00:32:55   there young guy but but but you know you [TS]

00:32:57   make it to meet everybody [TS]

00:32:58   I'll see you in a different light I was [TS]

00:33:01   like I'll come to a party on algae on [TS]

00:33:03   fuck yes I well and I went down and I [TS]

00:33:07   had my you know and I dressed dressed [TS]

00:33:09   for success and I went down there to a [TS]

00:33:10   yacht and walked out you know to walk [TS]

00:33:13   down the pier and saw the yacht and I [TS]

00:33:15   was like this is the yacht it's you know [TS]

00:33:18   it's not really a yacht it's more of its [TS]

00:33:20   a big boat but like I was kind of like [TS]

00:33:22   an eyeball that though this lady is this [TS]

00:33:24   is this or is this not a yeah that's a [TS]

00:33:26   nice boat but it's a nice boat it's a [TS]

00:33:28   big boat but but I mean I feel like [TS]

00:33:30   calling it a yacht is a little bit [TS]

00:33:32   shouldn't get to wear one of this person [TS]

00:33:34   how it's probably you don't get to tell [TS]

00:33:35   you don't get to say whether your boat [TS]

00:33:37   is a yacht or not I feel it's like [TS]

00:33:38   poetry other people had call it that [TS]

00:33:40   that's right if somebody else calls a [TS]

00:33:41   yacht that's fine but if you're like [TS]

00:33:42   come on and visit my yacht it's like you [TS]

00:33:44   should have said boat but I get on there [TS]

00:33:47   and I'm talking to these guys and [TS]

00:33:49   there's just a lot of there's a lot of [TS]

00:33:52   gel in their hair even the older ones [TS]

00:33:54   and I realized that what being a broker [TS]

00:33:57   is it's a job in sales [TS]

00:33:59   it involves a lot of cold calling and it [TS]

00:34:03   involves telling people that they really [TS]

00:34:05   really need this financial instrument [TS]

00:34:06   otherwise they're not going to be [TS]

00:34:08   they're not going to provide for their [TS]

00:34:10   kids and you need to say that whether [TS]

00:34:12   you believe it or not and I was like [TS]

00:34:15   this is not the place for me and I [TS]

00:34:17   immediately went over to the bar and [TS]

00:34:18   drink 14 gin and tonics and then fell [TS]

00:34:22   asleep on the deck boat in my suit and [TS]

00:34:26   fell asleep inside I was sitting in a [TS]

00:34:29   chair and then I just sport fell out of [TS]

00:34:32   the chair didn't fall i feel like i just [TS]

00:34:34   was more comfortable lying [TS]

00:34:36   on the deck knowledge on but I was lying [TS]

00:34:39   there on the deck and such a weakling [TS]

00:34:41   this I mean where you are you really i [TS]

00:34:43   was pretty out of it and and I was lying [TS]

00:34:46   on the deck in such a way that everyone [TS]

00:34:47   who was walking around touring the boat [TS]

00:34:50   had to step over me [TS]

00:34:51   mind the intern and I feel like I pretty [TS]

00:34:56   much intentionally torpedo my broker [TS]

00:34:59   training but it was it was obviously not [TS]

00:35:03   for me but but in that moment I felt a [TS]

00:35:06   lot of pressure at on my way to the boat [TS]

00:35:10   and in the first hour I was on the boat [TS]

00:35:11   a lot of pressure to not make the wrong [TS]

00:35:14   decision because this is a thing that [TS]

00:35:16   could you know that could make make your [TS]

00:35:19   life you could be a very different guy [TS]

00:35:21   and you can have all you get a lot of [TS]

00:35:23   money and you could be a member of the [TS]

00:35:25   right clubs and all these things and I [TS]

00:35:28   you very seldom although not in this [TS]

00:35:31   life so many times that feels like you [TS]

00:35:33   are in a situation where like this it is [TS]

00:35:36   doing are these the things i want to [TS]

00:35:38   spend especially back then because I [TS]

00:35:40   mean we're really I feel like you speak [TS]

00:35:41   for myself I feel like I was really [TS]

00:35:43   brought up to like wait for those [TS]

00:35:45   moments that would constitute the last [TS]

00:35:47   10 minutes of the TV movie about me like [TS]

00:35:49   when is that they gonna come along when [TS]

00:35:50   I arrived yeah right where you do where [TS]

00:35:53   suddenly you go what [TS]

00:35:54   and then the credits roll because he [TS]

00:35:56   you're in the decision-making portion of [TS]

00:35:59   your life is over and now you are now [TS]

00:36:02   you just are doing the thing like you [TS]

00:36:04   met the girl you got married you got the [TS]

00:36:06   good job at her father's company and [TS]

00:36:08   then the credits literally roll because [TS]

00:36:11   nobody cares about the next 50 years of [TS]

00:36:14   your lobbyist everything's going to be [TS]

00:36:15   fine its happily ever after [TS]

00:36:16   that's right everything's going to be [TS]

00:36:17   fine let's turn our attention to the [TS]

00:36:19   next young person who is in the [TS]

00:36:20   decision-making mode but that that that [TS]

00:36:23   choosing and that those choices i feel [TS]

00:36:27   like i can continue to have to make all [TS]

00:36:29   the time and um and I mean I'm in a [TS]

00:36:34   place right now where I'm being asked by [TS]

00:36:38   people do you want to do this thing this [TS]

00:36:40   interesting thing where where money [TS]

00:36:43   might rain down from the sky [TS]

00:36:45   all involves is that you change [TS]

00:36:48   everything that you're doing and really [TS]

00:36:52   we direct all your energy in this other [TS]

00:36:55   direction but if you if you're ready to [TS]

00:36:57   do that i can promise you on the other [TS]

00:37:00   side here that there are machines their [TS]

00:37:03   machines in our office that have [TS]

00:37:04   skittles and he would have you have you [TS]

00:37:08   would have one of the top four or five [TS]

00:37:12   biggest desks are you kidding no I don't [TS]

00:37:15   know anything about this sounds the [TS]

00:37:17   terrifying [TS]

00:37:18   I mean you know exciting but like wow [TS]

00:37:20   that is at your age to have that come [TS]

00:37:23   along is really wild it is why I and [TS]

00:37:26   particularly wild given that when i look [TS]

00:37:29   at my head of your statements every year [TS]

00:37:31   I'm like well just eat by again just by [TS]

00:37:34   the hair of my chinny-chin-chin [TS]

00:37:36   but but when I'm when I'm out writing [TS]

00:37:42   articles are talking on this podcast or [TS]

00:37:44   like or or prescribing to the world [TS]

00:37:49   I feel like what the people I'm talking [TS]

00:37:51   to I am I am NOT writing to dedicated [TS]

00:37:56   television watchers telling them that [TS]

00:37:58   they are bad for watching television [TS]

00:38:00   I don't have any interest in doing that [TS]

00:38:01   I'm not interested in them at all really [TS]

00:38:03   I mean I feel like they are doing their [TS]

00:38:05   thing and we are on a parallel track and [TS]

00:38:08   we are happy friends like everything I [TS]

00:38:11   say and everything i right [TS]

00:38:12   I'm I'm trying to reach those people [TS]

00:38:16   that were or are like me and I'm trying [TS]

00:38:20   to say to them like there is you know [TS]

00:38:23   there is someone else out here who is [TS]

00:38:25   doing it would you know there is [TS]

00:38:28   somebody who is not a fan of stuff so [TS]

00:38:30   don't feel like not being a fan of stuff [TS]

00:38:31   makes you an ale and there is somebody [TS]

00:38:33   who who doesn't like punk rock so don't [TS]

00:38:37   think i'm not even that doesn't like [TS]

00:38:38   punk rock music just doesn't like punk [TS]

00:38:39   rockers and don't feel like you're a [TS]

00:38:41   dummy for not liking them because you [TS]

00:38:45   can still you know it's not a question [TS]

00:38:46   of if you don't like Punk's then you [TS]

00:38:50   might as well just be a Christian [TS]

00:38:52   Republican living in Oklahoma their [TS]

00:38:54   horses tacitly judging [TS]

00:38:57   the people who identify with that yeah [TS]

00:38:59   right who sucks on his part of the [TS]

00:39:01   problem like it is possible to be to be [TS]

00:39:02   cool as I am cool and rock and roll as [TS]

00:39:07   I'm rock'n'roll and also call bullshit [TS]

00:39:10   on things on some of the received wisdom [TS]

00:39:12   of those cultures right like you you can [TS]

00:39:16   you can be even an active enthusiastic [TS]

00:39:19   participant in the thing and still be [TS]

00:39:22   like but I'd but some of the fundamental [TS]

00:39:24   premises of this i just don't but they [TS]

00:39:27   don't reflect my views [TS]

00:39:29   I don't like I don't like it or or I [TS]

00:39:32   don't feel it right that's the thing i [TS]

00:39:35   don't feel it I can I intellectually get [TS]

00:39:38   it but I don't feel it some so many of [TS]

00:39:43   the things that are better that we as a [TS]

00:39:47   as like American culture talked about as [TS]

00:39:50   being the things that feel the best they [TS]

00:39:52   don't they don't always feel natural to [TS]

00:39:54   me [TS]

00:39:55   mhm so I'm just I'm I'm reaching out [TS]

00:39:58   over and over and over again to those [TS]

00:40:00   people because they're the ones that [TS]

00:40:02   matter to me the people bet that are [TS]

00:40:05   trying to make their way in this world [TS]

00:40:07   feeling outside but not so outside that [TS]

00:40:11   they go join the church of satan just [TS]

00:40:14   enough outside that every day it feels [TS]

00:40:16   like to I compromised today and like [TS]

00:40:19   just go with the flow or do I you know [TS]

00:40:24   do I dig my heels and a little bit on [TS]

00:40:26   this and say no you know I this little [TS]

00:40:28   thing know and and to feel like I i want [TS]

00:40:34   to support those people because I feel [TS]

00:40:36   like those may be the ones that have the [TS]

00:40:38   to have something extra special that [TS]

00:40:41   we've been what we would benefit from [TS]

00:40:43   them being a little bolder and and I [TS]

00:40:46   never felt when I was coming up that I [TS]

00:40:48   had very many role models because the [TS]

00:40:52   pictures the role models are always like [TS]

00:40:54   you know like John Doe right here's a [TS]

00:40:57   role model for you John Doe he's a smart [TS]

00:40:58   guy is a handsome guy he's a good guy [TS]

00:41:01   everybody agrees a good guy and the [TS]

00:41:05   thurston moore or somebody here [TS]

00:41:08   and I'd be like oh yeah I do I think [TS]

00:41:10   Thurston Moore said Gavin john doe or [TS]

00:41:11   good guys and and those would be [TS]

00:41:14   they're doing it differently they're [TS]

00:41:15   making their own way in the world and [TS]

00:41:17   then I would open up the magazine and [TS]

00:41:19   read the interview with them and they [TS]

00:41:20   talk about their record collections and [TS]

00:41:22   be like but that's not it for me like I [TS]

00:41:25   don't want to look at the world through [TS]

00:41:27   my record collection and so you know [TS]

00:41:30   what I mean like that's the app that's [TS]

00:41:32   the responsibility i feel on the problem [TS]

00:41:33   is i want i want to write an article or [TS]

00:41:35   when I make a statement in the world I [TS]

00:41:37   have to hear back from the eighty [TS]

00:41:39   percent of the people who are listening [TS]

00:41:40   who think I'm yelling at them but I'm [TS]

00:41:43   not I'm just like I'm whispering to to [TS]

00:41:47   the people that are then I feel like my [TS]

00:41:49   kin [TS]

00:41:50   uh-huh and I feel like you you know you [TS]

00:41:53   you have an element of that too but [TS]

00:41:56   you're much beer much better at helping [TS]

00:41:59   helping people that you don't feel are [TS]

00:42:03   like you right you're trying to help [TS]

00:42:06   people who are like you but also trying [TS]

00:42:09   to make it you know like be helpful to [TS]

00:42:11   people that you can pursue that you see [TS]

00:42:14   but that don't resemble you uh huh me [TS]

00:42:18   maybe so I mean that particular [TS]

00:42:21   statement remind you something my [TS]

00:42:22   girlfriend used to say to me pretty [TS]

00:42:25   often which was you know I really want [TS]

00:42:26   to help you but I'm not sure you can be [TS]

00:42:28   helped and dad that always give me pause [TS]

00:42:31   and sometimes made me angry [TS]

00:42:32   yeah um can see where that would make [TS]

00:42:34   you angry well but you know she was [TS]

00:42:36   right i mean i guess the the what what [TS]

00:42:39   I've realized is that [TS]

00:42:42   yeah I'm i made that crack a few weeks [TS]

00:42:45   ago about how you know if you haven't [TS]

00:42:47   found anything complicated you're not [TS]

00:42:48   near the truth you know and that's and [TS]

00:42:51   the the truth I feel as i try to evolve [TS]

00:42:54   with that stuff is realizing that you [TS]

00:42:57   know i mean the one on one hand were all [TS]

00:43:00   so much like we're so very very very [TS]

00:43:02   much alike but you know there's also a [TS]

00:43:05   part of all of us [TS]

00:43:07   that's broken in a different way and [TS]

00:43:09   that were ashamed of things in different [TS]

00:43:10   ways and the so to your point though I [TS]

00:43:14   feel like it was a real it was a kind of [TS]

00:43:17   a cart not crisis but a real frustration [TS]

00:43:20   and it took me a while to get over that [TS]

00:43:23   I I felt like I wasn't helping people [TS]

00:43:25   where I was and eventually that led me [TS]

00:43:27   to not be my website anymore because I [TS]

00:43:29   realized that I was you know hey you [TS]

00:43:33   know basically a paddling out to the [TS]

00:43:35   life raft and giving people saltwater [TS]

00:43:36   you know drink drink up you know where I [TS]

00:43:40   felt like the stuff that was making its [TS]

00:43:44   not so different from from alcoholism I [TS]

00:43:46   guess where or where you're giving [TS]

00:43:49   somebody something that feels like a [TS]

00:43:50   palliative that's actually making it [TS]

00:43:52   worse and over time there's a you know [TS]

00:43:53   pattern that you can see so anyway I [TS]

00:43:56   arrived at today that's not very [TS]

00:43:57   lucrative is that I there are things i [TS]

00:44:00   will have to say that can help somebody [TS]

00:44:04   think about something differently and I [TS]

00:44:07   think for most smart people that's a lot [TS]

00:44:09   when we realize how much of our problems [TS]

00:44:12   come from a destructive or not very [TS]

00:44:17   useful forms of thinking just learning [TS]

00:44:21   how to reframe something and looking at [TS]

00:44:22   it from a different angle can be [TS]

00:44:24   life-changing [TS]

00:44:25   but it's not anything that you could [TS]

00:44:27   have a TV show about without being [TS]

00:44:29   stupid and being at odds with the basic [TS]

00:44:31   idea and the basic idea is that you know [TS]

00:44:35   you Yuri you're looking at this one part [TS]

00:44:37   of this kind of wrong when he left about [TS]

00:44:40   this thing you reframe it with Merlin [TS]

00:44:42   Mann on the Discovery Channel I also you [TS]

00:44:46   know I love to I love to be disagreeable [TS]

00:44:48   now goals are great now they're not [TS]

00:44:50   gonna suck goes well gonna be good [TS]

00:44:53   you know I I like taking this point of [TS]

00:44:55   view because like it depends depends it [TS]

00:44:56   depends it depends right all right I [TS]

00:44:58   don't um but you know but it and so then [TS]

00:45:02   so then where does that put me in that [TS]

00:45:03   instance you know it's not so different [TS]

00:45:05   from where you are where it's like you [TS]

00:45:08   know so I I there was a time when I [TS]

00:45:11   would fit most handily into what you [TS]

00:45:13   might call self-help or productivity and [TS]

00:45:15   the thing is that's a party i do not [TS]

00:45:17   want to go to i do not want to hang out [TS]

00:45:19   with the self-help people i do not want [TS]

00:45:20   to hang out with the productivity people [TS]

00:45:22   because they're there in the existential [TS]

00:45:24   porn business like they're in the [TS]

00:45:25   business of vending you something you're [TS]

00:45:27   always going to need more of Rights [TS]

00:45:29   takes you further away from the stuff [TS]

00:45:30   that you actually need to fucking do [TS]

00:45:32   which is sit down into your thing [TS]

00:45:33   whatever that is and that that that that [TS]

00:45:35   is that is that general but you know in [TS]

00:45:37   that instance i'm with you i mean III [TS]

00:45:39   feel I have felt very much like you know [TS]

00:45:42   people want to have that one bit idea of [TS]

00:45:45   what you do and if it takes too much [TS]

00:45:47   explaining you must be a charlatan you [TS]

00:45:49   know yeah so so i don't know i don't [TS]

00:45:52   know but you know the other foot just [TS]

00:45:53   your point about the fan thing I mean I [TS]

00:45:55   can't get away from this thing which is [TS]

00:45:56   that will part 1 [TS]

00:45:58   no matter what you see on the internet [TS]

00:45:59   really anything you say in public but [TS]

00:46:01   particularly on internet pretty much [TS]

00:46:03   everybody will find a way to make it [TS]

00:46:05   about them and to think that you are [TS]

00:46:08   talking to them and kind of maybe even [TS]

00:46:12   attacking them so if you say something [TS]

00:46:14   really nice about the world the kind of [TS]

00:46:15   thing your sister says on twitter you [TS]

00:46:17   know quotes from Cleo gibran or whatever [TS]

00:46:19   like everybody's gonna go [TS]

00:46:20   that's nice that's nice but you say [TS]

00:46:21   something like I really wish people [TS]

00:46:23   would keep moving get out of the way you [TS]

00:46:26   that they think you're at like attacking [TS]

00:46:27   them down particularly in that case we [TS]

00:46:30   are this episode of Roderick on the line [TS]

00:46:35   is sponsored by Squarespace you know [TS]

00:46:38   Squarespace as the only one platform [TS]

00:46:39   that makes it fast and easy to create a [TS]

00:46:41   website but this week we want to [TS]

00:46:43   highlight a very cool new project [TS]

00:46:45   Squarespace has just launched believe it [TS]

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00:46:48   Squarespace has partnered with jeff [TS]

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00:46:53   a new album by the man that many of us [TS]

00:46:54   best-known love as the dude so go and [TS]

00:46:57   visit dreaming with Jeff dot-com when [TS]

00:47:00   you get there you'll land on a gorgeous [TS]

00:47:01   site built with squarespace of course we [TS]

00:47:04   can find mr Bridges brand new album [TS]

00:47:05   sleeping tapes now this is an all new [TS]

00:47:08   collection of unique and relaxing sounds [TS]

00:47:10   guided meditations and stories designed [TS]

00:47:13   to low you to sleep all put together [TS]

00:47:15   with a little help from his friends by [TS]

00:47:16   Jeff himself and the wrong you can [TS]

00:47:19   stream the tracks live off of sleeping [TS]

00:47:21   takes fright there from the site and if [TS]

00:47:22   you like what you hear you can download [TS]

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00:47:25   all the proceeds going to no kid hungry [TS]

00:47:28   an organization whose mission is that no [TS]

00:47:30   child America should ever go to bed [TS]

00:47:32   hungry again please check this out and [TS]

00:47:34   help a great cause by visiting dreaming [TS]

00:47:36   with Jeff dot-com that album again Jeff [TS]

00:47:39   Bridges sleeping tapes very cool that's [TS]

00:47:41   4 square space remember you can get a [TS]

00:47:43   free trial just even today no credit [TS]

00:47:46   card required start building [TS]

00:47:47   your very own website right now and when [TS]

00:47:49   you decide to sign up for Squarespace [TS]

00:47:51   please make sure to use the offer code [TS]

00:47:52   supertrain for ten percent off your [TS]

00:47:55   first purchase and that will show your [TS]

00:47:57   support for Roderick on the line we [TS]

00:47:59   thank Squarespace very much for the [TS]

00:48:00   support of Roderick on the line and [TS]

00:48:02   forgiving this great album to the world [TS]

00:48:04   Squarespace start here go anyway but [TS]

00:48:07   yeah I mean that was the that was the [TS]

00:48:09   the the the first shock of that of that [TS]

00:48:13   punk rock article for me was I was [TS]

00:48:14   writing it for my seattle for the people [TS]

00:48:16   that wrote the red the seattle weekly [TS]

00:48:18   people within within a 10-mile radius of [TS]

00:48:20   where I was standing and I was stunned [TS]

00:48:23   and how angry it made people in Florida [TS]

00:48:26   where you like respect and admire came [TS]

00:48:28   out publicly against you [TS]

00:48:29   yeah people we both like I like that man [TS]

00:48:32   that guy's manage on robberies mad but [TS]

00:48:36   you know the so you and I just did a [TS]

00:48:37   show a live show a live Roderick on the [TS]

00:48:41   line show ya in California and it was [TS]

00:48:47   very fun and we had a very good time but [TS]

00:48:51   when i took the stage we walked out [TS]

00:48:53   onstage with you and I were standing [TS]

00:48:54   backstage from you were like how will we [TS]

00:48:56   know when to go on let me get the music [TS]

00:48:59   was playing and then the music went down [TS]

00:49:02   and the man from the the sketch fest [TS]

00:49:04   introduced us and we walked out on stage [TS]

00:49:06   here we are here and enter the last [TS]

00:49:08   thing you said was like are you gonna go [TS]

00:49:09   on that side or this side and I was [TS]

00:49:10   going I memory on that side and then we [TS]

00:49:13   walk out and there's the there's the [TS]

00:49:17   room full of people and they're plotting [TS]

00:49:19   and we are saying hello and as a rock [TS]

00:49:23   musician i adjusted I got used to a long [TS]

00:49:28   time ago the idea that i was going to [TS]

00:49:29   walk out on a stage and about and the [TS]

00:49:32   most I can hope for is that half the [TS]

00:49:35   audience's on my side he might help that [TS]

00:49:38   people stop talking a little bit right [TS]

00:49:40   yeah and there are there are musicians [TS]

00:49:42   and and I know a lot of them and [TS]

00:49:44   jonathan coulton is one for instance [TS]

00:49:45   where he walks out on stage and has four [TS]

00:49:47   years walked out onstage and and doesn't [TS]

00:49:51   even think it's this it's this thing you [TS]

00:49:54   were talking about a second ago he [TS]

00:49:55   doesn't even think about the possibility [TS]

00:49:58   that there's someone in the audience [TS]

00:50:00   that doesn't like him because it's a [TS]

00:50:03   quick they're all on a cruise that's [TS]

00:50:05   named after him right stop there that [TS]

00:50:09   was like about governance so he doesn't [TS]

00:50:11   know that thing i'm going to write a [TS]

00:50:13   check with his name it's that you don't [TS]

00:50:15   have a you don't know how bad your [TS]

00:50:18   vision is because because the all you [TS]

00:50:20   can see is how you see ya [TS]

00:50:22   um and and the guys in death cab for [TS]

00:50:25   cutie like this the guys in keene or [TS]

00:50:26   like this like if you are used to [TS]

00:50:28   playing sold-out shows everywhere you go [TS]

00:50:31   the presumption is that every person [TS]

00:50:33   there had to make it a special effort to [TS]

00:50:36   get into your show it costs a lot of [TS]

00:50:38   money they're all massive fans but for [TS]

00:50:40   me even during the heyday of my band [TS]

00:50:45   there was a there was a palpable sense [TS]

00:50:47   that our band was one of those bands [TS]

00:50:50   that hipsters would go to see and stand [TS]

00:50:54   in the back and be like okay [TS]

00:50:55   long winters I've heard of you show me [TS]

00:50:57   something and you know that was the [TS]

00:51:02   level of indie rock we were at where we [TS]

00:51:05   weren't selling a thousand tickets in [TS]

00:51:06   every town we were selling 500 tickets [TS]

00:51:09   or 350 tickets and a certain percentage [TS]

00:51:12   of that audience was there was [TS]

00:51:15   absolutely capable of coming away from [TS]

00:51:18   that show going [TS]

00:51:19   why didn't I don't see what people like [TS]

00:51:21   them so much I mean you know that that [TS]

00:51:22   was that's part of that you know how to [TS]

00:51:24   send some percentage of the audience was [TS]

00:51:26   there out of curiosity [TS]

00:51:27   yeah maybe whereas with keen there's a [TS]

00:51:29   pretty good chance they have hurricane [TS]

00:51:30   song if you have heard a keen song and [TS]

00:51:32   they're there because they want they [TS]

00:51:33   want to hear the song and and the people [TS]

00:51:35   better like you know I've heard about [TS]

00:51:37   this band and I go to see five shows a [TS]

00:51:39   week and I'm gonna go check them out [TS]

00:51:40   they typically don't go to see keen or [TS]

00:51:43   death cab for cutie but they do go to [TS]

00:51:44   see bands like the long winters [TS]

00:51:47   well then after the long winter stop [TS]

00:51:50   playing and i started doing shows where [TS]

00:51:52   i was going out as a solo acoustic [TS]

00:51:54   artists opening for other people then [TS]

00:51:58   that dropped that percentage i guess the [TS]

00:52:03   percentage of people who are like who's [TS]

00:52:04   this guy went way up and my performance [TS]

00:52:07   style evolved in the [TS]

00:52:09   last seven years i remember you flipping [TS]

00:52:12   the bird quite as much in the long [TS]

00:52:13   winters in the because of the language I [TS]

00:52:15   wasn't fucking I wasn't flipping [TS]

00:52:16   everybody off because I was like hi [TS]

00:52:18   friends you know at least a percentage [TS]

00:52:19   of you but I evolve this performance [TS]

00:52:23   style [TS]

00:52:24   whoa where I'm walking out onstage and [TS]

00:52:28   it's like oh here there's an opener at [TS]

00:52:31   the show and I'm like hi I'm John [TS]

00:52:33   Roderick i am a massive person and to [TS]

00:52:39   you right now i am a nobody [TS]

00:52:43   I'm not I'm like a weird a bearded guy [TS]

00:52:46   with an acoustic guitar and I haven't [TS]

00:52:48   played in moment of music yet but i [TS]

00:52:50   cannot walk out here and just be like [TS]

00:52:52   how you guys and start playing my songs [TS]

00:52:55   i'm gonna have to get I'm gonna have to [TS]

00:52:57   get this room right [TS]

00:52:59   first it's time for some framing and [TS]

00:53:01   that involves telling you not only who I [TS]

00:53:05   am but who you are and how this is gonna [TS]

00:53:10   go [TS]

00:53:11   yeah and how this is gonna go how this [TS]

00:53:12   is gonna go for you if you do like it [TS]

00:53:14   and how it's going to go for you if you [TS]

00:53:16   don't like it's like a CIA interrogator [TS]

00:53:19   what's up man this is only going to get [TS]

00:53:22   worse harder easy buddy [TS]

00:53:24   have you seen the box you want to go in [TS]

00:53:26   the box you don't wanna go into you [TS]

00:53:27   don't want to go in the box but when I [TS]

00:53:29   walked out onstage with you in San [TS]

00:53:31   Francisco it was a it was a very nice [TS]

00:53:33   theater and a nice full room of people [TS]

00:53:36   and I and I had I had that feeling and [TS]

00:53:40   that wasn't prepared for and I hadn't [TS]

00:53:42   thought of it in advance but I walked [TS]

00:53:43   out I realized by the applause and by [TS]

00:53:47   where we were and who we were and where [TS]

00:53:49   we were standing I was like oh [TS]

00:53:50   everybody wants to be here right now I [TS]

00:53:53   don't have to i don't have I I don't [TS]

00:53:57   have to prepare this room [TS]

00:54:01   and it was a very comfortable feeling [TS]

00:54:03   and then I look down at the foot of the [TS]

00:54:05   stage and there was a stack of [TS]

00:54:08   three-by-five cards that someone some [TS]

00:54:12   fan had written some inside jokes on [TS]

00:54:16   written some written some rock on the [TS]

00:54:18   line based memes on these three-by-five [TS]

00:54:21   cards and then had put them on the stage [TS]

00:54:24   and so I walked out and I and I'm I'm [TS]

00:54:28   kind of basking in this moment like [TS]

00:54:30   here's our people and then I look down [TS]

00:54:32   and I see these three-by-five cards and [TS]

00:54:35   I realized that someone in the audience [TS]

00:54:37   has a dunce has gone to some work and [TS]

00:54:43   then put them on the stage in [TS]

00:54:44   expectation of something and that [TS]

00:54:50   expectation presumably was that we would [TS]

00:54:52   pick up the three-by-five cards and read [TS]

00:54:54   them on the stage and go through them [TS]

00:54:56   and have them are i'm not sure what the [TS]

00:54:58   expectation was I honestly have no idea [TS]

00:55:00   but I look down at the three-by-five [TS]

00:55:03   cards and I said to myself in an instant [TS]

00:55:06   you know someone has placed an [TS]

00:55:08   expectation on the stage and that is not [TS]

00:55:14   in that is not in within the within the [TS]

00:55:17   bounds of how I'm gonna like this is my [TS]

00:55:19   stage right and Merlin stage and the [TS]

00:55:23   hand I reject your expectations so i [TS]

00:55:26   picked up the stack of three-by-five [TS]

00:55:27   cards and i know you noted someone's put [TS]

00:55:30   some cards on the stage and then you [TS]

00:55:33   flung them at the application i hurled [TS]

00:55:35   into the crowd and which was created by [TS]

00:55:39   a lot of laughter well and the thing is [TS]

00:55:41   that everyone in the room and that was [TS]

00:55:44   the last I thought about it right that [TS]

00:55:45   everybody in the room understood what [TS]

00:55:47   that transaction just was right that [TS]

00:55:50   someone had in their enthusiasm for the [TS]

00:55:53   show had made a thing they had put it on [TS]

00:55:57   the stage and had had crossed hubris [TS]

00:56:00   order and I push them [TS]

00:56:06   back over the hubris border and [TS]

00:56:07   everybody agreed that that was the that [TS]

00:56:10   that is in fact the introduction to the [TS]

00:56:13   program that we're doing and that is [TS]

00:56:15   that was in that was in character of the [TS]

00:56:17   of product on the line and that was just [TS]

00:56:19   exactly what what that is the message in [TS]

00:56:23   a way of the program right but at the [TS]

00:56:27   end of the night so I didn't think about [TS]

00:56:28   those cards again and at the end of the [TS]

00:56:31   night I think some people were were [TS]

00:56:32   picking up those cards as souvenirs yes [TS]

00:56:34   I somebody photographed him but then i [TS]

00:56:37   was standing talking to people and [TS]

00:56:39   shaking hands with people and a young [TS]

00:56:40   woman comes by and she's picking up the [TS]

00:56:43   cards and I'm conscious of she's picking [TS]

00:56:48   up the cards with a particular energy [TS]

00:56:50   it's not an exaggerated one but there is [TS]

00:56:52   an energy to the way she's picking up [TS]

00:56:53   the cards where I realized that she is [TS]

00:56:56   not an employee of the venue [TS]

00:56:58   she's not picking up the cards to clean [TS]

00:57:00   the space for the next show [TS]

00:57:03   she's picking up the cards because it [TS]

00:57:04   because she made the cards and I stopped [TS]

00:57:08   and was like oh did you make these [TS]

00:57:10   and she said yes and with a look on her [TS]

00:57:13   face that were revealed to me that maybe [TS]

00:57:17   everybody in the room thought that was [TS]

00:57:19   hilarious except for one person on know [TS]

00:57:22   and i'm not sure what she again i have [TS]

00:57:26   no idea what was intended but I had you [TS]

00:57:32   know I'd run with it and then here was [TS]

00:57:36   this person who had actually either [TS]

00:57:39   facilitated this because it seems like a [TS]

00:57:42   lot of them were in different [TS]

00:57:42   handwriting maybe she'd gone around and [TS]

00:57:45   asked everybody in the room beforehand [TS]

00:57:47   to write something on a three-by-five [TS]

00:57:48   brown or maybe she done it herself in [TS]

00:57:51   different handwriting [TS]

00:57:52   I don't know because i also had a lot of [TS]

00:57:55   people to talk to but I said hey no I [TS]

00:57:57   would actually like to read those cards [TS]

00:57:59   if it if that is important [TS]

00:58:01   I'm sorry that I threw them over the [TS]

00:58:03   room but that was just a theatrical [TS]

00:58:05   moment is a bit and she you know didn't [TS]

00:58:08   say anything she just kind of you know [TS]

00:58:10   nodded and smiled and gave me the cards [TS]

00:58:15   and I did read the cards on the cards [TS]

00:58:16   were you know I kind of exhaustive [TS]

00:58:19   collection of of memes and themes that [TS]

00:58:25   you and I have talked about over the [TS]

00:58:26   years I saw his planning on their Hitler [TS]

00:58:29   splaining and 380 like three by five [TS]

00:58:31   card crossed out and you know a lot of [TS]

00:58:33   the top was I think I'm Merlin specific [TS]

00:58:35   joke where I did once have a photo where [TS]

00:58:38   i had written index card on an index [TS]

00:58:41   card haha oh uh what was what was your [TS]

00:58:46   great one here you're great there with [TS]

00:58:49   you did something like I wrote the words [TS]

00:58:51   jeff goldblum on a page and i found that [TS]

00:58:54   later and I had absolutely no idea where [TS]

00:58:57   the couplet my favorite was that picture [TS]

00:59:00   of you in front of a white board where [TS]

00:59:02   you had it written some like a ski show [TS]

00:59:06   ya the brake the brake tag [TS]

00:59:07   yeah break tag yeah the way 10 plus one [TS]

00:59:10   point compress that's right in my garage [TS]

00:59:12   and I was the only attended and that [TS]

00:59:14   might be that might be a little early [TS]

00:59:16   for some of our listeners it early in [TS]

00:59:19   the middle back when i was writing [TS]

00:59:20   computer mass for the early internet [TS]

00:59:21   yeah [TS]

00:59:22   early early culture but I did feel in [TS]

00:59:24   that moment that even in our even in our [TS]

00:59:29   inner circle of people that are a [TS]

00:59:31   hundred percent like on board and and [TS]

00:59:35   part of our culture and I see this all [TS]

00:59:38   the time in the replies we get to the [TS]

00:59:39   show [TS]

00:59:40   there is a lot of variation in the [TS]

00:59:42   expectation and in the you know and like [TS]

00:59:45   what people are taking away from what we [TS]

00:59:48   do and in that in that moment because [TS]

00:59:52   Ivy even on your own show that we [TS]

00:59:54   created you can still feel like an [TS]

00:59:56   outsider ya head it away like I felt [TS]

00:59:59   terrible [TS]

00:59:59   terrible [TS]

01:00:00   all I I felt terrible to have because [TS]

01:00:02   because on the on one level somebody [TS]

01:00:05   worked off the sweetness i'm going to [TS]

01:00:07   say that it's a sweet gesture [TS]

01:00:09   yeah and now and on another level it is [TS]

01:00:11   you know it is a completely in character [TS]

01:00:14   of the show and of me you don't put [TS]

01:00:18   something on my stage [TS]

01:00:20   particularly not something we're the [TS]

01:00:22   only thing up the only thing it's doing [TS]

01:00:25   there is saying interact with me like [TS]

01:00:28   right I want you to I want your show to [TS]

01:00:31   incorporate something I made how did he [TS]

01:00:33   end up well she you know she kind of [TS]

01:00:36   smiled and bowed a little bit and gave [TS]

01:00:38   me the cards and then Roderick and [TS]

01:00:41   thence then disappeared and if you know [TS]

01:00:43   she threw down and smoke bomb and we [TS]

01:00:46   don't get a Batman exit and I had to go [TS]

01:00:48   I have to go to immediately to another [TS]

01:00:50   show so I wasn't able to chase her i had [TS]

01:00:53   to you know to greet the people who had [TS]

01:00:55   good state to say hello but you know but [TS]

01:00:59   it was a it was a thing that that I went [TS]

01:01:02   through those cars out there i did not [TS]

01:01:03   think about it again until I saw the [TS]

01:01:05   maker of the cars and then was like all [TS]

01:01:08   right then and and and I do respect and [TS]

01:01:12   honor people making things and some of [TS]

01:01:15   the fan art that we've generated makes [TS]

01:01:18   me as happy as strong if you walking a [TS]

01:01:20   large cat dressed as a pimp the small [TS]

01:01:21   Cal so amazing Jesus amazing so amazing [TS]

01:01:25   but but that had that feeling right that [TS]

01:01:30   that and I think that is a feeling that [TS]

01:01:34   everybody has right then that no one [TS]

01:01:37   totally gets them and even your closest [TS]

01:01:40   people don't they're never going to [TS]

01:01:42   totally get you and knowing how to know [TS]

01:01:47   how to know like where your where the [TS]

01:01:49   borderlands are where you actually dig a [TS]

01:01:52   trench and make a stand and where you [TS]

01:01:55   just say like oh this is where there's [TS]

01:01:57   this isn't a battleground it's just a [TS]

01:01:59   village it takes a village I'm just a [TS]

01:02:04   villager i feel like i'm writing lyrics [TS]

01:02:06   to my new record right now I'm just [TS]

01:02:09   going to go into the village [TS]

01:02:12   k takes a village no reply attention [TS]

01:02:18   generation supertrain we have an [TS]

01:02:20   exciting new thought technology for you [TS]

01:02:22   because right now for the first time [TS]

01:02:23   ever [TS]

01:02:24   Roderick on the line has shirts shirts [TS]

01:02:27   that you can buy and then where is your [TS]

01:02:30   small batch single cask artists anal [TS]

01:02:33   t-shirts and hoodies featuring our brand [TS]

01:02:35   new rock on the wine logo lovingly [TS]

01:02:37   crafted by our pals at cotton bureau to [TS]

01:02:40   see them for yourself you can find a [TS]

01:02:41   link shown us for this episode or just [TS]

01:02:43   dial up bit ly / supertrain shirt and [TS]

01:02:48   here's the thing this is a very limited [TS]

01:02:50   time offer the last possible second to [TS]

01:02:52   buy this shirt passes on februari 6 2015 [TS]

01:02:55   at 2pm so please act now go to italy / [TS]

01:03:00   supertrain shirt and pick up this [TS]

01:03:02   one-of-a-kind item for the very first [TS]

01:03:04   time available to you John and I thank [TS]

01:03:07   you in advance for having a torso and [TS]

01:03:09   excellent taste takes a village makes [TS]

01:03:12   village shaken bake village [TS]

01:03:14   oh fun show though I had a blast and I [TS]

01:03:19   enjoyed it a lot i mean it's you know [TS]

01:03:20   it's like any of these things network [TS]

01:03:22   we're really up our own ass now that [TS]

01:03:23   it's done it's really different [TS]

01:03:25   I mean it's funny because like there's a [TS]

01:03:27   switch tradition of writing and [TS]

01:03:29   recording music that you put out and [TS]

01:03:30   then people listen to and it rich [TS]

01:03:32   tradition of playing live shows and they [TS]

01:03:35   have a distinctly different energy [TS]

01:03:37   unless you're like I remember Joe [TS]

01:03:38   Jackson put that record like 1986 we're [TS]

01:03:41   gonna have to be really quiet while I [TS]

01:03:42   was recording because it was recorded [TS]

01:03:43   live but he didn't want any audience [TS]

01:03:45   participation on it all really weird [TS]

01:03:47   tonight will did we just hear something [TS]

01:03:49   about Stephen merit we're after the [TS]

01:03:52   first song had his rock concert he said [TS]

01:03:54   I would I don't hear applause hurts my [TS]

01:03:58   ears [TS]

01:03:58   I'm really glad I don't room with that [TS]

01:04:04   guy right here applause hurts my ears [TS]

01:04:06   man [TS]

01:04:08   ok that but he smells like cigarettes [TS]

01:04:10   Milwaukee's go [TS]

01:04:16   it's true what you say the the energy I [TS]

01:04:19   mean you and I have a very different [TS]

01:04:21   when we're on honor did that's not yeah [TS]

01:04:24   exactly you're getting it you're getting [TS]

01:04:26   what i'm saying here which is like a [TS]

01:04:27   record with somebody else long enough to [TS]

01:04:30   do something like this you know [TS]

01:04:31   sure obviously it's a matter of taste [TS]

01:04:32   whether you are into it or not but it is [TS]

01:04:34   what it is and it's what we understand [TS]

01:04:37   what this is but like I've never done [TS]

01:04:39   anything podcast II that was easy to do [TS]

01:04:41   live and have it have the same flavor [TS]

01:04:44   and brio as the what we're doing right [TS]

01:04:46   now not that's not necessarily an [TS]

01:04:48   interesting thing but you know and i [TS]

01:04:50   have to tell you that with other things [TS]

01:04:52   i've done like that the best thing we [TS]

01:04:54   ever did was to stop having it try to [TS]

01:04:57   have this is precise energy as the [TS]

01:04:59   record show right in the same way that a [TS]

01:05:01   live show with sock [TS]

01:05:03   I mean barring what Joe Jackson and [TS]

01:05:05   crafts for kraftwerk like don't try and [TS]

01:05:07   make it sound like the record that's not [TS]

01:05:09   what people are therefore if they are [TS]

01:05:10   therefore that the initials on the [TS]

01:05:11   record right price [TS]

01:05:13   you know and we talked about that like [TS]

01:05:14   you know in counting for like the energy [TS]

01:05:16   in the room and like your ability to [TS]

01:05:17   respond to somebody booing about the [TS]

01:05:19   seahawks or something like that [TS]

01:05:21   yes it's hard i mean it's not hard it's [TS]

01:05:23   fucking coal mining is hard but it's a [TS]

01:05:25   bit is weird and scary [TS]

01:05:28   well and the thing is like our show I [TS]

01:05:31   mean people will be able to judge for [TS]

01:05:32   themselves because it is recorded and [TS]

01:05:34   will be will have will have been out it [TS]

01:05:36   will when this comes out [TS]

01:05:38   um the [TS]

01:05:42   the energy when I walk out on a stage [TS]

01:05:44   like that's where i am the most [TS]

01:05:46   comfortable right I've spent my whole [TS]

01:05:47   professional life standing in front of [TS]

01:05:49   you haven't had anything like actual [TS]

01:05:51   stage fright in years [TS]

01:05:52   i I'm with you I don't need for an 8th [TS]

01:05:55   ed addled mind being stuck on stage in a [TS]

01:05:58   position that other people perceive as [TS]

01:05:59   pressure [TS]

01:06:00   oh man i don't think i don't think about [TS]

01:06:02   anything but this right and I'll tell [TS]

01:06:04   you another state of mind and like I [TS]

01:06:07   would be totally fine on stage I mean [TS]

01:06:09   you know given what i do i mean i'm not [TS]

01:06:11   you know Liberace but like it would be I [TS]

01:06:13   would I very comfortable and yeah me too [TS]

01:06:16   i can't imagine a mood that I would be [TS]

01:06:18   in that wouldn't be improved by somebody [TS]

01:06:22   pushing me out on stage and sing [TS]

01:06:24   go ahead do you you're responsible for [TS]

01:06:26   30 minutes I'd be like well i was just [TS]

01:06:28   about any think about cancer from yeah I [TS]

01:06:31   was just about to hang myself on my belt [TS]

01:06:33   from a doorknob but haha now in time mr. [TS]

01:06:38   on track i'm going to do in 30 minutes [TS]

01:06:40   on that and it's gonna be so fun did you [TS]

01:06:42   notice how much the backstage area when [TS]

01:06:44   you're looking through the doors how [TS]

01:06:45   much it looked like a gallows [TS]

01:06:48   oh you walk up those steps and there's [TS]

01:06:50   like this one guys really look at [TS]

01:06:53   gallows when I was in when i was in [TS]

01:06:56   Djibouti recently your trip to Africa [TS]

01:07:00   oh yeah that's right it's about its [TS]

01:07:02   place in Africa booty is a place in [TS]

01:07:03   Africa that's fun to say we were uh at a [TS]

01:07:07   certain point we had with would we had a [TS]

01:07:11   late night smoking cigars with the [TS]

01:07:15   Master Chief's and the chief master [TS]

01:07:21   chief the commander chase are very very [TS]

01:07:23   the highest level enlisted people right [TS]

01:07:25   right okay in the nails they're like [TS]

01:07:27   they're professionals their career [TS]

01:07:29   professionals who just aren't officers [TS]

01:07:30   yeah and the chief i'm sorry the command [TS]

01:07:34   master chief is the highest-ranking [TS]

01:07:35   chief and the command master chief of [TS]

01:07:39   this space was a very capable and a very [TS]

01:07:44   clearly in command person and he invited [TS]

01:07:48   us to his like private lair [TS]

01:07:50   where we sat around smoking what could [TS]

01:07:52   only be described as illegal cigars and [TS]

01:07:55   lucky having a good time just talking to [TS]

01:07:57   the chief different that they're [TS]

01:07:58   different and cigars [TS]

01:07:59   yeah well and these guys were different [TS]

01:08:01   and at one point I think hungry i think [TS]

01:08:03   i mentioned on some other podcast and i [TS]

01:08:06   recently did that one of the Master [TS]

01:08:10   Chief's was like when I said I was going [TS]

01:08:12   around like what do you do you know what [TS]

01:08:13   he's like well I'm in charge of the [TS]

01:08:14   Seabees like what do you do well i'm in [TS]

01:08:16   charge of that I get to a guy and he's [TS]

01:08:18   like I'm a parachute Packer and I said [TS]

01:08:21   you are a like master chief and you're [TS]

01:08:26   telling me your parachute Packer for the [TS]

01:08:28   Navy who does the what Navy guys ever go [TS]

01:08:32   under a parachute and he just gave me [TS]

01:08:35   this link and I was like oh IC IC who [TS]

01:08:38   you are so as these guys when I love [TS]

01:08:42   what I missed their see an operative [TS]

01:08:43   he's the he was the seal he was the he [TS]

01:08:46   was the seal master chief looks like [TS]

01:08:48   when I tell people I'm a ceramicist I [TS]

01:08:50   get it okay [TS]

01:08:51   yeah he was saying I pack parachutes and [TS]

01:08:54   if you're in the if you're in the ocean [TS]

01:08:57   and shoot the shit out of people [TS]

01:08:59   yeah for the military and you think like [TS]

01:09:01   who's in the Navy [TS]

01:09:03   well a lot of people that swab the decks [TS]

01:09:04   the only guys that come out of airplanes [TS]

01:09:07   in under parachutes are like you know [TS]

01:09:09   they don't have a little early train for [TS]

01:09:11   like everything like that they are they [TS]

01:09:14   are meant to be like even beyond Marines [TS]

01:09:16   god bless them like you're meant to be [TS]

01:09:18   like they could go into any situation [TS]

01:09:19   and just deal with it right [TS]

01:09:21   yeah well I'm not going to jack off the [TS]

01:09:23   seals right now because I feel like the [TS]

01:09:25   seals are getting enough credit in our [TS]

01:09:26   culture but yeah sure the seals are [TS]

01:09:29   seals have a nice challenge cleen they [TS]

01:09:32   have a good challenge going and they [TS]

01:09:33   have a lot of they have a lot of skills [TS]

01:09:38   they have the skills to pay the bills [TS]

01:09:40   ok but anyway so I'm talking to the [TS]

01:09:42   command master chief and I said why is [TS]

01:09:45   this base closed to what I mean why is [TS]

01:09:48   it on lockdown and he rolled his eyes [TS]

01:09:51   and said well nine months ago somebody [TS]

01:09:54   blew themselves up in a club downtown in [TS]

01:09:56   Djibouti and so now nobody here is [TS]

01:09:59   allowed liberty to go into the town [TS]

01:10:01   and I said I really feel like that is [TS]

01:10:03   antithetical to the to the whole idea of [TS]

01:10:06   having a military base in a foreign [TS]

01:10:07   country like the young guys that are in [TS]

01:10:11   the Navy need to go into the town and [TS]

01:10:13   the people in the town need to have the [TS]

01:10:16   young guys in the Navy come in like [TS]

01:10:18   that's [TS]

01:10:19   that is the symbiosis of being deployed [TS]

01:10:22   overseas and to have a base here where [TS]

01:10:25   the the sailors can't leave the base is [TS]

01:10:28   just the wrong mentality and he said I [TS]

01:10:31   agree one hundred percent but i am being [TS]

01:10:35   you know I'm i M my hands are tied [TS]

01:10:39   because the order came down from you [TS]

01:10:43   know us africom or something and I was [TS]

01:10:46   like well that's a bummer because I [TS]

01:10:47   really want to go see Djibouti and he [TS]

01:10:50   cheated on his cigar for 15 minutes when [TS]

01:10:52   we talked about other things and then he [TS]

01:10:54   said you know what i'm gonna make it so [TS]

01:10:55   that you can go into Djibouti and the [TS]

01:10:58   next day he you know some captain or not [TS]

01:11:03   captain some lieutenant Navy lieutenant [TS]

01:11:05   shows up in a sec and we all went out I [TS]

01:11:11   David recent jonathan coulton I and [TS]

01:11:14   somebody some other person that I don't [TS]

01:11:17   know who they were we all went out [TS]

01:11:19   through the seven layers of hardened [TS]

01:11:21   security gates and drove spent an [TS]

01:11:25   afternoon driving around your booty town [TS]

01:11:26   but the [TS]

01:11:29   most telling moment was as we were [TS]

01:11:32   leaving the base its kind of you know [TS]

01:11:34   gravely scorched-earth sort of around [TS]

01:11:37   the base stealing the base heat points [TS]

01:11:40   over to the side and very [TS]

01:11:41   matter-of-factly says they're the old [TS]

01:11:43   gallows from one the French ran this [TS]

01:11:45   place [TS]

01:11:46   Wow and it was like it was like Calvary [TS]

01:11:51   mount you know there was a there was [TS]

01:11:54   literally a hill and it was that for [TS]

01:11:56   their own guys know literally a hill and [TS]

01:12:00   then a giant gallows that where they [TS]

01:12:05   hung whoever it was that they felt [TS]

01:12:07   needed hanging huh and and it was built [TS]

01:12:11   in such a way that you could not escape [TS]

01:12:13   seeing it from sort of miles around and [TS]

01:12:18   it was a real like I mean it was real [TS]

01:12:22   colonial it was it was like an emblem of [TS]

01:12:28   colonial authority [TS]

01:12:30   I'm not an apologetic unapologetic [TS]

01:12:32   colonialism absolutely just like here is [TS]

01:12:36   the here not is not a hearts and minds [TS]

01:12:38   type situation we're running here [TS]

01:12:39   yeah this is the end of the road right [TS]

01:12:41   this is our this is the DNB in fool of [TS]

01:12:44   Djibouti and and boy I I mean walking [TS]

01:12:49   around are going around your booty town [TS]

01:12:50   was interesting and I was you know it [TS]

01:12:52   was a fun experience but I've been [TS]

01:12:54   chewing on that gallows ever since and [TS]

01:12:57   just like that's some heavy shit that we [TS]

01:13:00   don't [TS]

01:13:01   it's been a long time since that there's [TS]

01:13:02   been a visible gallows in the United [TS]

01:13:06   States and I don't think I think you'd [TS]

01:13:08   be hard-pressed to find one still in a [TS]

01:13:10   public square [TS]

01:13:11   maybe the theater other thing is they're [TS]

01:13:13   not you may be in a theater in San [TS]

01:13:15   Francisco and italian social club now [TS]

01:13:19   that's a scary it was scary even if it's [TS]

01:13:22   you know not being used its wonder why [TS]

01:13:25   they haven't taken it down [TS]

01:13:27   that's the thing that I've been chewing [TS]

01:13:29   on like the terms of messaging they're [TS]

01:13:31   so easy to blow it up [TS]

01:13:33   yeah before you know turn into a gift [TS]

01:13:36   shop or something but like to have that [TS]

01:13:38   thing there seems I don't know that [TS]

01:13:41   seems a little creepy [TS]

01:13:42   it does [TS]

01:13:43   it does it does it does to me still [TS]

01:13:46   but you know there are a lot of there [TS]

01:13:48   are a lot of countries where you know [TS]

01:13:50   capital punishment is still practiced in [TS]

01:13:52   the in public they did didn't they do [TS]

01:13:55   the French did public executions until [TS]

01:13:57   into the 20th century right yeah well [TS]

01:14:00   they had up to anything photos of a very [TS]

01:14:02   modern-looking guillotine [TS]

01:14:04   well you know it's a beauty is very [TS]

01:14:07   efficient and very sanitary so in that [TS]

01:14:10   sense I'm a German prison if you think [TS]

01:14:13   about sanitary sure that's what you want [TS]

01:14:15   a lousy because everything goes in the [TS]

01:14:18   basket right although a basket is a [TS]

01:14:21   terrible thing to collect blood him [TS]

01:14:24   Oh God [TS]

01:14:28   isn't that weird with all of that little [TS]

01:14:30   another happy note isn't a strange with [TS]

01:14:33   all the technology we have we're moving [TS]

01:14:35   backwards in terms of cleanly killing [TS]

01:14:37   people is doesn't seem it desperately [TS]

01:14:39   for first of all I don't you I'm not a [TS]

01:14:41   giant fan of the death penalty but man [TS]

01:14:44   if you're gonna do it [TS]

01:14:45   Jesus Christ these guys could fuck up a [TS]

01:14:48   steel trap [TS]

01:14:49   I mean what did you hear about the the [TS]

01:14:50   one dude in the like how long it took [TS]

01:14:52   him in the condition it's like this is [TS]

01:14:55   something there to keep trying to make [TS]

01:14:56   it humane and and and then they you [TS]

01:15:00   realize that it isn't humane particular [TS]

01:15:02   people no matter how you think of to do [TS]

01:15:05   it well and again but last you have [TS]

01:15:07   stated the the most monstrous seeming [TS]

01:15:09   methods from you know centuries ago are [TS]

01:15:14   a lot cleaner than having a guy dressed [TS]

01:15:16   up like a doctor going in poky i guess a [TS]

01:15:18   doctor probably going to poke you with [TS]

01:15:19   poison like that's actually not as [TS]

01:15:21   reliable know it's terrible and because [TS]

01:15:24   everybody is different and you know you [TS]

01:15:25   can't really gasps somebody either [TS]

01:15:27   reliably well go meet anybody who's an [TS]

01:15:29   anesthesiologist I mean that's the [TS]

01:15:31   toughest gig in that room [TS]

01:15:33   yes it's at I'm fascinated by [TS]

01:15:35   anesthesiology it's it is so difficult [TS]

01:15:37   to get right and you hear you still here [TS]

01:15:39   with season people used to hear these [TS]

01:15:41   stories of people who were knocked out [TS]

01:15:43   enough to not be able to say anything [TS]

01:15:44   right but still feel ya or the people [TS]

01:15:48   that just died on the operating table [TS]

01:15:49   because they're having a mole removed [TS]

01:15:51   and this is why you're the emissary [TS]

01:15:55   going to jail and fix those moles I feel [TS]

01:15:58   like I feel like a I feel like we just [TS]

01:16:01   need to get a sort of Soylent Green [TS]

01:16:03   maker if we're going to have capital [TS]

01:16:06   punishment it needs to be handled in a [TS]

01:16:08   central location workforce presumably [TS]

01:16:10   somewhere in i would say Kansas let's [TS]

01:16:13   say Kansas because Kansas is the center [TS]

01:16:16   of the country and they also they've [TS]

01:16:19   they have decided how they're going to [TS]

01:16:21   be there so let's just call it Kansas [TS]

01:16:23   maybe I mean Texas obviously I'm like [TS]

01:16:26   Kansas cancel putting in Kansas it will [TS]

01:16:28   be a soylent green factory will take all [TS]

01:16:30   the people that we have decided that [TS]

01:16:32   we're going to be legally kill and we'll [TS]

01:16:34   just put them in a hopper and then down [TS]

01:16:37   through the grinder there's no amount of [TS]

01:16:39   minutes going to be quick but there's no [TS]

01:16:42   amount of like oh we didn't get it right [TS]

01:16:43   the first time we have to go back [TS]

01:16:45   Yeah right there just going to be loved [TS]

01:16:49   and then we can use that as fish food or [TS]

01:16:52   fertilizer or not or squeeze for kids [TS]

01:16:55   whatever you want to use it for but it [TS]

01:17:00   took us that mean it uses just using a [TS]

01:17:02   matrix philosophy right it took us a [TS]

01:17:04   long time to grow that yes that that bad [TS]

01:17:07   person [TS]

01:17:08   yeah we've invested we've invested a lot [TS]

01:17:10   of time and energy in public schools and [TS]

01:17:12   so forth they should at least be a snack [TS]

01:17:14   bar for kids which should at least get [TS]

01:17:16   something out of it right [TS]

01:17:17   oh yeah some kind of like a slurry that [TS]

01:17:22   can be used for a variety of purposes [TS]

01:17:24   pretty far John if you could use it to [TS]

01:17:27   pay your bar or whatever I don't know [TS]

01:17:28   that the Oh [TS]

01:17:36   good show it was fun [TS]

01:17:42   yeah nice nice people it was great we [TS]

01:17:46   never really used the bell [TS]

01:17:48   no just a little bit little bit what [TS]

01:17:51   seems a little bit you know we're trying [TS]

01:17:52   to work it in [TS]

01:17:53   but how was your overall experience of [TS]

01:17:55   sketchfest you had the yeah the nerd [TS]

01:17:57   show with the nerdy guys you had our [TS]

01:18:00   rock on the line and then you did [TS]

01:18:01   something that you did you get to meet [TS]

01:18:03   John Benjamin is that right John [TS]

01:18:05   Benjamin and I he hosted the show that I [TS]

01:18:09   was the musical guest [TS]

01:18:11   I'm here and I had a beary beary nice [TS]

01:18:13   time together it it was revealed by h [TS]

01:18:17   john benjamin that he is a longtime long [TS]

01:18:19   winters fan [TS]

01:18:20   wow I also heard he listens to a friend [TS]

01:18:23   of mines podcast that's pretty cool [TS]

01:18:25   yeah so any consumer that guy in your [TS]

01:18:28   consumer and also just from the moment [TS]

01:18:30   you meet him just in his face and in his [TS]

01:18:32   eyes you realize that he is one of the [TS]

01:18:34   good ones and it's just a good dude and [TS]

01:18:37   his his comedy his sense of humor really [TS]

01:18:40   comports with my own like he walks out [TS]

01:18:43   on stage and he's just like I mean Here [TS]

01:18:45   I am Here the things i'm going to say [TS]

01:18:47   any cracks about Bob's Burgers to him [TS]

01:18:50   no I got in here that I learned my I [TS]

01:18:53   learned my lesson your throwaway line [TS]

01:18:56   for people-watching junk TV sitting [TS]

01:18:57   around watching Bob's Burgers haha up [TS]

01:19:02   yeah I did I took a shot at bob's [TS]

01:19:04   burgers but then the following day I was [TS]

01:19:06   on a show with two of the guys from [TS]

01:19:08   bob's burgers or three of them i don't [TS]

01:19:10   know how many of them [TS]

01:19:11   Eugene was there it was right Eugene [TS]

01:19:13   Mirman yeah but all of the shows that [TS]

01:19:16   sketch fest this year were great i Henry [TS]

01:19:18   I had a wonderful time I met a lot of [TS]

01:19:21   amazing people and uh and you know the [TS]

01:19:26   my problem in the past with sketchfest [TS]

01:19:28   was always that I was left standing on [TS]

01:19:30   this corner at some point by a driver [TS]

01:19:32   who had never been to San Francisco [TS]

01:19:34   before [TS]

01:19:35   and this time it did it never happened [TS]

01:19:38   that was completely well organized it [TS]

01:19:39   was perfect the entire time there were a [TS]

01:19:40   couple of couple problems they didn't [TS]

01:19:42   put me in the hotel I wanted which made [TS]

01:19:44   me mad and I and I voiced my hangar to [TS]

01:19:47   everybody and they all touchid and told [TS]

01:19:50   me that they were really sorry [TS]

01:19:52   mm and I was not modified em but i did [TS]

01:19:56   just go with the flow because i'm [TS]

01:19:58   learning to go with the flow [TS]

01:19:59   alright not really no and then at the [TS]

01:20:03   very end I was standing in front of my [TS]

01:20:06   hotel waiting for my ride to the airport [TS]

01:20:07   and the guys texting me on my way i'll [TS]

01:20:12   be there in five and I was like okay [TS]

01:20:13   we're getting down to the wire [TS]

01:20:15   I gotta get to the airport and you know [TS]

01:20:16   it it's gonna take a little while to get [TS]

01:20:19   there as you know and then he text me [TS]

01:20:22   he's like alright I'm pulling up out [TS]

01:20:24   front and I'm standing there with my [TS]

01:20:26   guitar case in front of the hotel [TS]

01:20:27   looking up and down the completely [TS]

01:20:29   abandoned [TS]

01:20:30   did you get the hotel you want it he [TS]

01:20:32   went to the hotel that I wanted to be [TS]

01:20:34   out until I should have been at and he's [TS]

01:20:36   like I'm in front of the hotel I don't [TS]

01:20:38   know where you're at man right here the [TS]

01:20:39   Indians and I was just like oh you [TS]

01:20:42   matter and all of them then I was just [TS]

01:20:44   like all of your bastards and so I [TS]

01:20:47   grabbed the first cab i saw which in the [TS]

01:20:52   in the culture of San Francisco was the [TS]

01:20:55   wrong move because it infuriated all the [TS]

01:20:57   other cabs that were parked on the side [TS]

01:21:00   of what I had what I had seen only a [TS]

01:21:03   moment before to be a empty street [TS]

01:21:06   it wasn't an empty street there were [TS]

01:21:07   like five cattle idol you had a line [TS]

01:21:09   jumper huh [TS]

01:21:10   and I and some guy with zips up and I [TS]

01:21:12   was like you know taxi and he had jumped [TS]

01:21:15   be the Cataline yeah and then all these [TS]

01:21:19   camps start honking their horns and once [TS]

01:21:21   screeched up and tried to block us and [TS]

01:21:24   they were yelling at each other and I [TS]

01:21:26   was like listen you want mad you want to [TS]

01:21:29   see mad i'm mad you guys might be humans [TS]

01:21:34   might be cabbie mad but I'm at a higher [TS]

01:21:36   level of man then you're even cabbie man [TS]

01:21:40   is getting your clock cleaned right now [TS]

01:21:42   it's a cab all because of uber oh yeah [TS]

01:21:44   it's it's bad the uber drivers makeup i [TS]

01:21:47   think on average ten dollar [TS]

01:21:49   now or more and and just the number of [TS]

01:21:52   people who move from being cab drivers [TS]

01:21:54   to uber is just it's dramatic i mean [TS]

01:21:57   iĆ­ve got that is called curb I've got [TS]

01:21:59   that app for getting a cab [TS]

01:22:01   you know the damn supposed to be their [TS]

01:22:03   answer doober I've tried it three times [TS]

01:22:05   and each time i've waited 10 minutes and [TS]

01:22:07   they've never gotten a cab residue Burr [TS]

01:22:09   and hate them that they're here in three [TS]

01:22:11   minutes [TS]

01:22:12   yeah there's seconds right yes and and [TS]

01:22:15   most of the time i was in san francisco [TS]

01:22:17   and needed a ride people were calling [TS]

01:22:18   Hooper's and they were there in three [TS]

01:22:20   minutes and this cab that I did take to [TS]

01:22:22   the airport at some point maybe as a [TS]

01:22:25   weight saving measure maybe for some [TS]

01:22:28   other reason that I can't explain it [TS]

01:22:30   seems that they took out the entire rear [TS]

01:22:32   suspension and replace the different for [TS]

01:22:34   the railroad time [TS]

01:22:36   uh-huh so the whole way to the airport I [TS]

01:22:39   was like this car is not safe to drive [TS]

01:22:41   and I was like what [TS]

01:22:43   it's fine i I've noticed that there [TS]

01:22:45   there's basically there's two kinds of [TS]

01:22:47   people driving things in San Francisco [TS]

01:22:48   generally there's people who drive for [TS]

01:22:50   uber and lyft and there's cab drivers [TS]

01:22:52   who fucking hate uber and lyft and talk [TS]

01:22:55   about it the entire time [TS]

01:22:56   yeah they're advocating for it now I got [TS]

01:22:59   a ride home with a couple weeks ago and [TS]

01:23:01   and the entire ride home [TS]

01:23:04   this guy went off he's an activist and [TS]

01:23:06   antitumor activists and just went off [TS]

01:23:08   and you know and I'm doing the thing [TS]

01:23:10   where i'm kinda like making a motion [TS]

01:23:11   with the earphones and like just let me [TS]

01:23:12   know if anything you know I can come not [TS]

01:23:14   talk to the cab driver guy and but like [TS]

01:23:16   we was an accident the road is alcohol [TS]

01:23:18   but that was the whole time he's got his [TS]

01:23:20   arm on the seat and he keeps turning [TS]

01:23:22   back to look at me to make sure i'm [TS]

01:23:23   getting all of this is that all accident [TS]

01:23:26   but that's an uber really take we like [TS]

01:23:28   to take photos of mousta like wow man [TS]

01:23:31   really driven so mad so mad [TS]

01:23:36   ya know I I had a great time in San [TS]

01:23:39   Francisco again I did not make the [TS]

01:23:41   mistake of buying anything while i was [TS]

01:23:43   there because you didn't go back and [TS]

01:23:46   demand satisfaction from the suit people [TS]

01:23:47   know I actually thought about it as i [TS]

01:23:50   was walking in that neighborhood and I [TS]

01:23:52   thought about how true it is I'm because [TS]

01:23:57   i'm not alone in this [TS]

01:23:58   how true it is that not only did that [TS]

01:24:01   guy make you know it wasn't that big of [TS]

01:24:04   a ripoff but he you know he made a copy [TS]

01:24:07   on the fact that you're from out of town [TS]

01:24:09   yeah he made you know you like it looks [TS]

01:24:11   like you send that make more to [TS]

01:24:12   mcdonalds if we had to choose where the [TS]

01:24:14   good food of the crappy food went the [TS]

01:24:15   good food always went to the counter the [TS]

01:24:17   crappy food always want to the [TS]

01:24:18   drive-thru because they're gonna come [TS]

01:24:19   first interesting just seeing what your [TS]

01:24:21   students to I did not know that the [TS]

01:24:23   mcdonald's employees had a good food [TS]

01:24:25   crappy food dialectic happening but I [TS]

01:24:29   haven't eaten a McDonald's in a decade [TS]

01:24:30   but this that this was a situation where [TS]

01:24:33   this guy made a couple hundred bucks off [TS]

01:24:34   of me and I and my instinct would have [TS]

01:24:40   been having if I'd had a successful [TS]

01:24:42   experience at that place that that the [TS]

01:24:45   way that I the way that I practice [TS]

01:24:48   loyalty is that I would have bought [TS]

01:24:50   something in his store every time I went [TS]

01:24:52   to San Francisco for the next 25 years [TS]

01:24:54   and the couple of my friends did I mean [TS]

01:24:57   RT there's no way you phrased it that it [TS]

01:24:59   sounded like that's kind of what you're [TS]

01:25:00   looking for is exactly like what people [TS]

01:25:02   used to have which was a Studebaker a [TS]

01:25:04   tailor who cannot get give you bespoke [TS]

01:25:06   closing you go oh hello Jim senior hello [TS]

01:25:09   Jim jr. suiting up your back in town we [TS]

01:25:13   missed you you know my all the things [TS]

01:25:15   that my dad had from that store that [TS]

01:25:17   were that were made for him by this [TS]

01:25:19   guy's dad you know III it had created a [TS]

01:25:24   fantasy in my head that I was going to [TS]

01:25:25   have a San Francisco haberdasher and for [TS]

01:25:29   a couple hundred bucks this guy a this [TS]

01:25:31   guy lost but we'll what we'll end up [TS]

01:25:36   being tens of thousands of dollars and [TS]

01:25:38   patronage and that feels like punishment [TS]

01:25:40   enough [TS]

01:25:41   also the other thing is i have a podcast [TS]

01:25:42   where I refer to him periodically and my [TS]

01:25:45   presumption is that if you live in San [TS]

01:25:46   Francisco that you you will not [TS]

01:25:49   patronize cable car clothiers out of [TS]

01:25:52   loyalty program the line not bitter [TS]

01:25:55   not at all no this is how people [TS]

01:25:58   actually constantly telling me how [TS]

01:26:00   capitalism works [TS]

01:26:01   I it was always act in your parish it it [TS]

01:26:04   was so funny i was based on the data [TS]

01:26:06   Benjamin a program that I've only [TS]

01:26:09   recently become aware that completed or [TS]

01:26:11   is that [TS]

01:26:11   so with what was the status with that [TS]

01:26:13   which one is it still recording or you [TS]

01:26:15   could get haha ah it's were skyping now [TS]

01:26:20   he died I lay in bed with my ipad as i'm [TS]

01:26:23   going to sleep and dams on the other [TS]

01:26:24   side and we're just looking at each [TS]

01:26:26   other and using a party thinking of the [TS]

01:26:29   cursor but uh but as a result of that [TS]

01:26:32   program where I said you know every tie [TS]

01:26:35   I like I laughs a bitter laugh every [TS]

01:26:37   time the new york times of like paywalls [TS]

01:26:41   me because as a musician I always find [TS]

01:26:45   it uh I always find it really charming [TS]

01:26:48   when people tell me that they're content [TS]

01:26:50   is worth money because I've spent the [TS]

01:26:52   last 10 years being told that my content [TS]

01:26:54   isn't worth money or it's worth a [TS]

01:26:57   fraction of a fraction of a cent and I i [TS]

01:27:01   said something like that on dance [TS]

01:27:02   program and I got a tweet from the [TS]

01:27:05   managing editor of the New York Times [TS]

01:27:07   what who lives in person listens to back [TS]

01:27:10   to work [TS]

01:27:10   let's go back to work and then he says [TS]

01:27:13   in his tweet i am a big long winters fan [TS]

01:27:16   and have been since before the podcast [TS]

01:27:18   era and i bought all your records sister [TS]

01:27:22   learn [TS]

01:27:23   we're in an economy with one another and [TS]

01:27:26   this is what it this is what it takes at [TS]

01:27:30   you know you pay us we pay you and I [TS]

01:27:32   said well i replied back and said yes [TS]

01:27:36   but you paid you bought my records big [TS]

01:27:41   you but my records because you chose to [TS]

01:27:42   write you have the option of buying them [TS]

01:27:45   and you chose to do that because for [TS]

01:27:46   whatever reason but there is also a and [TS]

01:27:52   the and the predominant way of acquiring [TS]

01:27:55   my records now is to choose to just do [TS]

01:27:57   the easiest thing which is not actually [TS]

01:27:58   not to buy them the easiest end of the [TS]

01:28:02   way that the culture is to the with it [TS]

01:28:04   this economy you're describing works now [TS]

01:28:07   is that my content in particular above [TS]

01:28:10   all other contents is is supposedly free [TS]

01:28:14   and you know the equivalent would be [TS]

01:28:18   that some that Spotify come along and [TS]

01:28:21   say [TS]

01:28:21   we're going to publish all the newspaper [TS]

01:28:25   content in the world and then we're [TS]

01:28:27   gonna we're gonna pay the various [TS]

01:28:29   newspaper writers we're painting various [TS]

01:28:31   writers based on how many people read [TS]

01:28:33   their articles based on math that we [TS]

01:28:36   devised for ourselves you know [TS]

01:28:38   so every time somebody read more no I no [TS]

01:28:41   negotiations no negotiation possible [TS]

01:28:42   anytime somebody a writer reads that new [TS]

01:28:45   york times article for free on spotify [TS]

01:28:47   we're going to give you points 0 0 0 0 1 [TS]

01:28:50   cent and she to this guy's credit this [TS]

01:28:53   new york times guy wrote me back and [TS]

01:28:56   said looking in my itunes at what I have [TS]

01:29:00   actually bought I'm embarrassed and [TS]

01:29:04   ashamed versus what he downloaded for [TS]

01:29:07   free [TS]

01:29:07   the hour what he what he thought he [TS]

01:29:10   owned but in fact was listening to on [TS]

01:29:12   Spotify or whatever [TS]

01:29:14   however it was that he kind of reflected [TS]

01:29:16   on on the fact when I see I was like [TS]

01:29:20   yeah very much to his credit [TS]

01:29:22   yeah very much credit and then even more [TS]

01:29:24   to his credit than he said here's a [TS]

01:29:25   here's a hack all the New York Times [TS]

01:29:29   content that is that we promote via [TS]

01:29:32   social media is paywall free you can [TS]

01:29:36   also identify a google news illegally [TS]

01:29:38   much in Google News Thank You Merlin [TS]

01:29:40   technology look at all these now I'm now [TS]

01:29:44   I feel like I'm uh I'm what is what was [TS]

01:29:49   that privilege [TS]

01:29:50   no I already felt that know what was [TS]

01:29:53   that was that dumb my program that the [TS]

01:29:55   guy from facebook that like to have [TS]

01:29:57   disco parties with underage girls [TS]

01:29:59   yeah invented to listen to music for [TS]

01:30:01   like a like the the napster not friends [TS]

01:30:04   for napster that's right yeah now i feel [TS]

01:30:06   like i have been a pastor for the media [TS]

01:30:09   for the news talk about privilege i got [TS]

01:30:11   a nice email this morning for somebody [TS]

01:30:13   actually I shouldn't say a popular radio [TS]

01:30:15   station that I listen to [TS]

01:30:17   uh-huh hey listen to on the internet or [TS]

01:30:19   on the airwaves just on the airwaves and [TS]

01:30:21   he sent me the he sent me the pledge the [TS]

01:30:25   pledge friendly no pledge link you sent [TS]

01:30:28   me the feed we don't want to pledge [TS]

01:30:30   stuff [TS]

01:30:31   Oh what yes that is what I feel like [TS]

01:30:33   I've arrived yet what you want [TS]

01:30:35   pledge they give you the keys i haven't [TS]

01:30:37   pledged yet but he fronted me by and [TS]

01:30:41   strength as they say talk about [TS]

01:30:43   privilege [TS]

01:30:44   yeah what could be wider and more [TS]

01:30:45   privileged than getting a link to listen [TS]

01:30:47   to NPR without the plant and actually [TS]

01:30:49   the latest person on the planet haha and [TS]

01:30:56   this is all things considered [TS]