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0:00:14[Music]
0:00:19hello hi John hi Merlin how's it going
0:00:23Jim Dandy
0:00:26uh-huh uh-huh that's sweet
0:00:30it's going to be upbeat episode of saved
0:00:32you're in the universe contingent on us
0:00:37um i am wearing my wall pants today
0:00:41nice and it is nice except you know that
0:00:44first day that you put on the wall pants
0:00:47you really have to get used to this
0:00:49appealing scratchy yeah i just said it's
0:00:54not a planned
0:00:55no these are old and they're just full
0:00:58as all get-out
0:01:00they just took the sheet basically and
0:01:02and editor took the insides out and yeah
0:01:06right make condoms and pants and uhhh
0:01:09yeah it feels good it feels good for
0:01:12winter to be here and for it to be like
0:01:15time to get down to the nitty-gritty I
0:01:19want some different pants today to just
0:01:21to mix it up a little bit you know
0:01:22different different pair of Levi's you
0:01:25mean or well yeah different pair of
0:01:27levis 501 this is the the second
0:01:31brattiest pair that i own and I wear
0:01:33them probably once a quarter because if
0:01:35I see somebody from my child's school on
0:01:37the street it leaves an impression
0:01:39OIC already won Miami ding-dong falls
0:01:42out so I can't wear those varieties are
0:01:44you i know you know the wear patterns
0:01:46every man has different wear patterns on
0:01:47his Levi's 501 that are weirdly
0:01:49consistent if you notice this
0:01:51yeah but you have very different very
0:01:52distinctive wear patterns on your pants
0:01:54well I know what you're thinking of go
0:01:56ahead because I'm doing because the
0:01:58phone
0:01:59well the phone but also you carry uh are
0:02:01you at least you used to carry your
0:02:04space pen in your front pocket
0:02:06remember that and the space pen leaves a
0:02:08lead you know over time you have a BF
0:02:12like a a war a worn a Warren space pen
0:02:16shadow in their energy in front
0:02:19yeah yeah that's mostly from yes you are
0:02:21a hundred percent correct time I wear
0:02:23patterns are that's a classic I I now
0:02:25carry a different kind of pen when I
0:02:27carry a pan so it doesn't leave the same
0:02:28little bit right exactly the shape
0:02:32of the space pen in my right pocket and
0:02:35then of course that starts out just
0:02:36leaving shape then it leaves a white
0:02:38shadow and then of course you get the
0:02:39we're so right then it's like it starts
0:02:41to break right you get you
0:02:43ok here's I if there's one thing to take
0:02:45away from this episode today and this
0:02:46you cannot lie to your pants your pants
0:02:49know the truth about you boy that is the
0:02:51truth so many ways today now i have a
0:02:54very very clear outline of an iphone 5s
0:02:57oh I say pocket right yet but you know
0:03:00but it's a.m. and we want to even get
0:03:02into more unsavory ways that your jeans
0:03:04tell the story but they can trip to
0:03:06Germany tobacco back-in-the-day sure
0:03:08yeah and did you ever have a you can
0:03:10read me like a oh gosh yes I mean I
0:03:13think that you could actually probably
0:03:14go to county seat and by a kind of a
0:03:19fake school can you can wash in your
0:03:22laundry just to get the ring for have to
0:03:24have the credit for the school i
0:03:26remember at other I'm not proud of it
0:03:29but it but at a certain point I was very
0:03:31opposed to chewing tobacco when I was in
0:03:33my young teens because a lot of my
0:03:36friends dude in school don't you talk
0:03:39about stuff I'm talking about yeah
0:03:42copenhagen snuff yeah as opposed to the
0:03:46red man like they want to read man no
0:03:48and Anna mean it was there was a pretty
0:03:50at the time pretty clear divide between
0:03:51like guys that should skull who were
0:03:55like pussies ya candy asses
0:03:58yeah and guys that should cope who were
0:04:01like a good normals or redness off
0:04:03regard yeah you know who stuffs and this
0:04:06was before the advent of all the other
0:04:08kinds of of snuff there was no Kodiak at
0:04:11the time now they get eaten get some
0:04:13hot-ass new yeah I've seen that my dish
0:04:17well now I guess there it was called
0:04:19some people actually called it's new you
0:04:22know
0:04:23yes I was probably a grassroots think
0:04:24I'm not trying to derail you i type this
0:04:25in Florida this was a thing
0:04:27it was a very real thing well it was
0:04:29very real in in Alaska to and Iraq so I
0:04:32was opposed to chewing and I would and I
0:04:35was I was kind of a like a you know if
0:04:38you can believe this i would Hector my
0:04:41friends
0:04:42and lecture them about what they were
0:04:43doing wrong while you were just crossing
0:04:46over for a young age I can't who wanted
0:04:49to make women be chased man you an idea
0:04:52what he was doing in between your head
0:04:54wisdom that's right and so I was like
0:04:56you guys cheering tobacco's is terrible
0:04:59I you know I disapprove of you sitting
0:05:02in the back glass and spitting to into a
0:05:04cocaine and I had enough I had enough
0:05:06leverage with them not leverage but just
0:05:10like you know that they would they would
0:05:12try and conceal their chewing from me
0:05:14but you can't conceal that from your
0:05:16friend but I I really envied the two can
0:05:21ring in the back pockets of their genes
0:05:23it just had such a nice
0:05:25it just said so much you know i mean it
0:05:29said upset a lot about a guy had
0:05:31signification and so I started carrying
0:05:34a toucan as a little wallet as a little
0:05:42like Dimebag yeah i would get a life
0:05:46hack
0:05:46yeah i would put shit in an old shoe can
0:05:49that my friend kevin gave me that I
0:05:51washed it out and then I would you know
0:05:53I'd fold up my money and and notes or
0:05:58whatever and I mean you couldn't you
0:06:00couldn't use it as a wallet because he
0:06:01couldn't put an idea in it but I you
0:06:03know I I did for a while I carried it
0:06:05around as a little pouch and then I just
0:06:08started chewing tobacco and and the rest
0:06:11was history
0:06:11I get down you know we talked before
0:06:16about the other kind of wallet that i
0:06:17carry because people care it's one of
0:06:19those little taxi taxi driver wallets
0:06:21which is not a super thin wallet but it
0:06:23really works for me it folds in half
0:06:25like a billfold it's got a little class
0:06:28breaking point of cars inside very very
0:06:31clear outline including down to we can
0:06:33see the snap where the snap is iike area
0:06:36taxi well to that I originally there
0:06:40like that that use this one your I gave
0:06:42your mom your mom do
0:06:44yeah so you gave it to mom she gave it
0:06:46to me I wore it
0:06:47no I did that I don't know either she
0:06:50was like I don't know why miss Merlin
0:06:51gave me a man's wallet but would you
0:06:52like
0:06:53yeah true and i warn't until it was
0:06:56until so that it would it came apart and
0:07:00then I was at the thrift store and I
0:07:01found a completely unused one
0:07:04Wow an identical one to the 1i had I was
0:07:07I was you know I was fixing it with tape
0:07:09by that point and i found what i was
0:07:12just like mom and I actually had to
0:07:13fight a Chinese lady for it
0:07:15oh man she was like she kind of was
0:07:17standing there at the same time and I
0:07:19picked it up and I was like check it out
0:07:20and she was like I was just about to
0:07:22pick that up I was like really you're
0:07:24about to pick it up and frog had wings
0:07:26you wouldn't doubt that'll happen and
0:07:28that's a I don't know about that about
0:07:30to pick it up and we SAT and talked
0:07:32about it for a while I don't interested
0:07:34and legally for that John she was like I
0:07:36want you to have it was like are you
0:07:38sure
0:07:40um here's what I want to get to and and
0:07:43so there's all the stuff that goes on in
0:07:45the in the belt area that we're not
0:07:47going to get into but I this is the
0:07:50thing is so strange to me is the wear
0:07:52patterns any season shoes I think you
0:07:55see this in pants I guess if you weren't
0:07:57long enough you see this in a jacket but
0:07:59two very distinct asymmetrical wear
0:08:03patterns so I mean I guess maybe it's
0:08:06kind of obvious you have this with shoes
0:08:07because we all like whatever pronator
0:08:09we've got some kind of imbalance I'm
0:08:10sure chiropractor could give you some
0:08:11kind of massage for this but you know
0:08:14youryour to shoot you go grab go grab
0:08:16four five pairs of shoes you have for
0:08:18that you only have had for a few years
0:08:20flip over and it's remarkable that the
0:08:22wear patterns on the bottom now for me
0:08:24that's the knees on the jeans that i
0:08:26cannot i don't know why I thought about
0:08:29it maybe I figured out but it's so
0:08:31strange to me that genes that I've had
0:08:33for three four five more years
0:08:35ah one knee always starts to wear before
0:08:38the other and the other knee then
0:08:41consequently blows out for the other and
0:08:43gets bigger hole I'll be right for you
0:08:45you don't talking about I do and there's
0:08:47this on cuffs you'll notice this on
0:08:49elbows it's really interesting and
0:08:51sherlock holmes probably well obviously
0:08:52you're a Scrivener yeah rights right
0:08:55remember genuflecting I don't genuflect
0:08:56I don't know you're a mincer you mince
0:08:59around you know it well maybe not you
0:09:02but a certain certain type of person
0:09:04mrs. around I do like that
0:09:05minutes i think i doing a very masculine
0:09:07way yeah it's a masculine mincing but it
0:09:09still wear your jeans differently
0:09:11yeah I sometimes will as I'm walking
0:09:17around i wasn't i was in a mall the
0:09:19other day which is not that's not what I
0:09:21want to be but as I had to go from one
0:09:23into the most of the others a long trip
0:09:25across the mall and I'm so as I was
0:09:29walking I was consciously trying to
0:09:33change my gate
0:09:36I was like you didn't spy thing well I
0:09:40was point you know I I think I I walk a
0:09:42little splayed and I was I don't know it
0:09:46if you ever try this but without looking
0:09:48at your feet
0:09:49particularly if you walks played without
0:09:53looking your feet you point your toes in
0:09:56and imagine that you are walking sort of
0:09:59pigeon-toed and then you look down at
0:10:02your feet and yours and you did
0:10:04they're not even pointing straight right
0:10:07i mean it's so unfamiliar to walk with
0:10:10your feet pointing straight and it
0:10:12changes everything
0:10:14the everything up and down like you your
0:10:16hips feel different your whole body
0:10:18feels different and when I was walking
0:10:19across Europe but i would do that for
0:10:21days at a time just be very conscious of
0:10:23like I'm just pointing my toes in the
0:10:25direction that I'm traveling and and I
0:10:30still do it sometimes as a way of you
0:10:32know a similar type of thing you look at
0:10:34the bottoms of your shoes and you're
0:10:35like wow like I'm wearing these shoes
0:10:37and such a weird fashion just gonna
0:10:41start can I be doing it feels like I'm
0:10:43taking a step in another step and
0:10:44everything is equal in normal i'm not
0:10:46you know averaging out every so many
0:10:48years you wouldn't say I'm taking this
0:10:49many more right turns and left turns
0:10:51frames really strange and yet you know
0:10:54there you are because we are all just
0:10:56flopping around like nowhere as a
0:10:58metrical I don't want to begin to death
0:11:00it's the lack of symmetry it's it's own
0:11:03is speaking of malls and essentially
0:11:05something in the in the robot can see
0:11:07that and you let me see let me see one
0:11:09here especially i'm curious to get your
0:11:10thoughts on this as somebody who follows
0:11:11people be the trends in technology
0:11:15naps and tell her that you're going
0:11:17afternoons
0:11:18yeah let's see i see so app trends here
0:11:22not let go it is that should be a blue
0:11:24thing and they do ya think it's okay and
0:11:27it's a link to come from grippy yep so
0:11:29my daughter and I would see a movie the
0:11:31other day I went to the big mall
0:11:32downtown and you know it's a it's
0:11:35actually it's a kind of a fancy it's the
0:11:36fancy mall downtown like it's a dynamic
0:11:39new destination so fancy
0:11:41hang on hang on saving go ahead and read
0:11:44it but save it
0:11:45mmm yeah so you get so fancy that you
0:11:48can get off the subway at palace street
0:11:50and actually walk in 2000 you don't even
0:11:53have to go outside westfield center and
0:11:55and so we gots one of my favorite place
0:11:57to see movies they've got good seats
0:11:58they got great food is a great food
0:12:00court and it's a great daddy daughter
0:12:02day place to count and one of our stops
0:12:04has always been this thing that of
0:12:06course used to be a barnes and noble
0:12:07then after it wasn't a barnes and noble
0:12:09like all places it became a remainder
0:12:11bookstore right that's that's the
0:12:13Destiny the destiny every barnes and
0:12:15noble will ironically enough become a
0:12:17remainder bookstore then they started
0:12:19adding toys to it so is this great place
0:12:21where you can go and you like to dollar
0:12:22books puzzles doctor who figures it was
0:12:25really a fun place to go
0:12:26well I'm story short we show how many
0:12:29more new guess what
0:12:31something new is moving in it used to be
0:12:35a barnes and noble then it was a no-name
0:12:37remainder book and toy store now John
0:12:39something new and there's a new thought
0:12:41technology at westfield center
0:12:43ah i think a photo of this it's one of
0:12:46those things you see in front of the
0:12:47window where something is going to be
0:12:49built something you'd be interested in
0:12:50talking about it so you know where your
0:12:53block off the block off the store as its
0:12:55as it's being developed but instead of
0:12:57just saying like coming soon and coming
0:12:59soon
0:13:00casual corner right it's now it's a it's
0:13:03sort of a branding opportunity another
0:13:04yeah a newer branding opportunity so
0:13:07this goes across a whole bunch of
0:13:09storefront in front of you you know how
0:13:11big a Barnes & Noble is right yeah and
0:13:13so i guess and they've chosen a kind of
0:13:16gun gun metal gray battleship gray was
0:13:19very which is it indicates like
0:13:21sleekness and also forward forward pneus
0:13:25that was the color of my outie 5000
0:13:28coming on so envious yeah and all and
0:13:31what it says I'd like if you don't mind
0:13:32I'd like you're reading of the paragraph
0:13:34but what it says is bespoke and in a
0:13:37very fancy looking sans-serif fonts
0:13:38bespoke with for some reason an
0:13:41underlying under the B&B spoke and then
0:13:43in italics there's a paragraph
0:13:45describing what bespoke is or will be
0:13:47would you mind sharing that with our
0:13:48listeners I i was wondering about why
0:13:51the underlying just one letter of
0:13:53bespoke and then and I feel like without
0:13:56the underline it's possible that you
0:13:59might look at that and say the spokie
0:14:01beast okay yeah right
0:14:04spokeo gorgeous bouquet I mean it's the
0:14:07best ok would have a little sante grab
0:14:10whatever the SRX on Teague over the e
0:14:13but but without with no at with no
0:14:16underlining your accent you could look
0:14:18at and say spoki right that's what if
0:14:21you were an okie from Muskogee would say
0:14:22the spokie was naturally ok and and but
0:14:26with the but the underlying under the B
0:14:28it makes you say be be you right you
0:14:33look at you can't be
0:14:34yeah and then what are you gonna do and
0:14:37usually if you're if you're if you're
0:14:39watching war games where you're watching
0:14:40some kind of eighties nineties computer
0:14:42thriller you would send think that
0:14:44that's a prompt sometimes i use the
0:14:47blinking underline indicate a problem
0:14:48why do you have a prompt under the first
0:14:51letter unless you are about to edit it
0:14:52right you were about to delete it right
0:14:54exactly
0:14:55change it to peace pokey yeah but then
0:14:58underneath now what what font is that
0:15:00the underneath written it's sort of an
0:15:02italic that looks kind of like it's a
0:15:06fancy Georgia yeah okay and it says
0:15:09nestled within the retail epicenter of
0:15:14San Francisco sits a dynamic new
0:15:16destination colon a community where
0:15:21digital innovators collide with the
0:15:24world's greatest brands Ivan and dash M
0:15:30dash for work and foreplay bomb and then
0:15:36under that there's a graphic and it's a
0:15:39sort of a flowchart right or what how
0:15:41would you describe
0:15:41it's three icons inside of circles on a
0:15:45horizontal axis and the three icon three
0:15:49circles are connected for no apparent
0:15:51reason by a line right so co-working and
0:15:54that's a what it's like he's on a pc
0:15:56with a mouse
0:15:57no I think that's a I think that that's
0:15:59a mac classic an apple mac classic color
0:16:03classic or maybe a lisa it could be i
0:16:05think its a Mac Alicia John in addition
0:16:08to co-working either any other kinds of
0:16:09things to do a bespoke soco working and
0:16:12then then align over to just a
0:16:15microphone an unplugged microphone about
0:16:18it with but we can alert so it's a mic
0:16:21that it's like one of those mics you get
0:16:23from radioshack that comes with a
0:16:24hardwired cord like Bob Pollin Mike yeah
0:16:27and it's and it says events events
0:16:29events and then another line over to
0:16:33some kind of a game controller that
0:16:35plays place
0:16:37yeah see I don't even play games and I
0:16:38can just tell from looking in that it's
0:16:40a it's a game with some kind its cord
0:16:42that connects to something that I don't
0:16:44think you would have had on most gaming
0:16:46systems in even the last three to five
0:16:47years
0:16:48it looks like an looks like some kind of
0:16:50Epsom printer but John yeah sure and
0:16:54whatever what is that indicates on tech
0:16:56demo is Emma so you got a co-working
0:16:59offense and tech demos co-working events
0:17:02and tech demos at bespoke absolutely
0:17:05the URL is at bespoke underscore SF that
0:17:09was a freebie for them
0:17:10yeah I'm sorry shit we should we should
0:17:12retro actively charge
0:17:14no I want people to go and look at this
0:17:15and scoff at it
0:17:17yeah I want I want them to I want them
0:17:19to say like why we're getting a lot of
0:17:20traffic today
0:17:21yeah that's where our numbers are really
0:17:23going up and it's just people around the
0:17:25world scoffing at them
0:17:26well don't think I didn't go um nothing
0:17:28about how i went and check out the tooth
0:17:32from bespoke SF um and I think it's
0:17:36pretty it's pretty inscrutable logitech
0:17:38most I don't know CA were shooting fish
0:17:40in a barrel but you know it's it's kind
0:17:42of hilarious that it used to be a barnes
0:17:44and noble thought about you like you
0:17:46know back in the lets say by the
0:17:48mid-nineties how about this when we got
0:17:50a barnes and noble at the tallahassee
0:17:52mall in circa
0:17:54nineteen ninety two or three whatever it
0:17:56was the barnes and noble is expanding
0:17:57really quickly
0:17:58that was the first starbucks i ever went
0:18:00to was a starbucks inside of a barnes
0:18:02and noble I mean that's how classy
0:18:04barnes and noble was Barnes & Noble
0:18:06alongside I guess borders the juggernaut
0:18:09you know what has been going on for a
0:18:11while but this was probably like 50,000
0:18:13square feet of store and occasionally
0:18:17huge you don't remember that they did
0:18:19they were driving out all the elbow the
0:18:22little children's book stores on the
0:18:23upper west side
0:18:24I think sometimes they took over
0:18:27something like maybe it was like an old
0:18:29grocery store like that be like a pantry
0:18:31pride type situation when the moment
0:18:33refurbished you get a point and noble
0:18:35you can't go in there you can buy you
0:18:37can buy all kinds of value by playing
0:18:38cards you can get coffee you can get a
0:18:40Danish they have a giant periodical
0:18:43section of barnes and noble down our
0:18:44tanforan mall two stories including a
0:18:47giant toy section right and children's
0:18:51books and records they were someone to
0:18:53stand right there is not a single
0:18:55big-box bookstore in downtown San
0:18:58Francisco other thing is i would use to
0:19:00go into those places and I would I I
0:19:02didn't know what I didn't know that they
0:19:05weren't for me right they were not they
0:19:07were not built for me I would walk
0:19:09around and I would end up I will go
0:19:11upstairs i would go downstairs I would
0:19:13walk around walk around and eventually I
0:19:15would buy a paperback copy of Plato's
0:19:17Republic just to give myself something
0:19:19to do and then I would you know give
0:19:23that to a homeless guy because i feel
0:19:25that that is that that plate it starts
0:19:27the path to recovery starts with Plato
0:19:29and mashed potatoes but first I want to
0:19:32talk about a cave
0:19:33are you listening and their attention to
0:19:35get out until I would go away and I
0:19:37wouldn't go back or you know everyone
0:19:38for everyone so why would buy one of
0:19:39those artists models the little wood
0:19:42articulated men puts it on the tables a
0:19:46present for creative people who are
0:19:48being creative
0:19:48that's it on the end tables in the homes
0:19:51of interesting people i would buy one of
0:19:53those and then give it as a gift that's
0:19:56what I mean even I see I've always loved
0:19:59just spending two hours in a store like
0:20:00that but what I will say no matter who
0:20:01you are it's great for Christmas gifts
0:20:03because it is really sure if you don't
0:20:04care that much
0:20:06who you're buying for especially you can
0:20:07find something for anybody there
0:20:09listen the other day I i was on a
0:20:13website called Instagram a web site okay
0:20:18and I don't know if you are familiar
0:20:21with jet Jessica cowan lady who works
0:20:26for Squarespace our once and future
0:20:29sponsor who and she sent me and a
0:20:33message on Squarespace is our on
0:20:36Instagram for Instagram website saying
0:20:40there's a guy who is taking tintype
0:20:43photographs in your town today he's at
0:20:48itinerant tintype ER traveling the world
0:20:52with his giant camera doing real tintype
0:20:56photos and he and he's looking for
0:21:00people
0:21:01local talent he's looking for talent
0:21:04people to look old timey and so I went I
0:21:07so i contacted this guy was like I
0:21:09wanted type photograph and he was like
0:21:10come on down to seattle pioneer square
0:21:13and I got down there I expected him to
0:21:16be wearing a a bowler hat and a mustache
0:21:20but he was not he was wearing either and
0:21:23he was taking tintype photograph with
0:21:25this camera that he kind of built
0:21:26himself and he was using eat he was
0:21:32using an alcove in a space that as I
0:21:34looked around turned out to be one of
0:21:37these co-working spaces right yeah have
0:21:42you ever been to one of these let's say
0:21:44about co-working yeah it's a it's a
0:21:46co-working space it's like a floor of a
0:21:48building and people are they're doing
0:21:49stuff on laptops
0:21:50yeah and so and there's a woman there
0:21:53who represents the co-working place and
0:21:56she started and I was like tell me about
0:21:58your co-working space and she started
0:21:59giving me this meal and this co-working
0:22:02space had something there was some angle
0:22:04right where it was like where they were
0:22:08certainly telling me but I think also
0:22:11telling themselves that it was
0:22:15some aspect of their co-working space
0:22:18was in the public good
0:22:20there was a public-interest angle where
0:22:23they were nonprofits or when i see they
0:22:26were they were trying to trying to make
0:22:30the world a better place all doing their
0:22:31part there yet right but I I toward the
0:22:34space and it was full of people i mean
0:22:38every seat was taken and they were all
0:22:41people on their laptops and I looked at
0:22:43their laptops and they all appear to be
0:22:45using windows 95 and they were all I
0:22:49don't know didn't say I didn't see any
0:22:51public interest work it's all just
0:22:54seemed like people trying to polish
0:22:56their resumes or I'm not sure what kind
0:22:58of work was going on in there but i was
0:23:00astonished that in the middle of the
0:23:02afternoon that people would choose to
0:23:05pay to be in this environment and I came
0:23:11out of that I came out of that
0:23:12experience both with a tintype
0:23:14photograph of myself and also a new
0:23:17curiosity about this co-working movement
0:23:22that was my first exposure to it
0:23:25oh really but well I don't have I don't
0:23:28have I mean I don't work
0:23:32it's interact with people who work yeah
0:23:34it was just in the in the kind of I
0:23:37guess I want to see in the tech world
0:23:38it's something that's really taken off
0:23:40over the years where you know for for
0:23:44obvious economic reasons I mean let's
0:23:45look at what is it really
0:23:47it's like having an office combined with
0:23:49having roommates like you don't really
0:23:51need to go lease your own floor of an
0:23:54office you don't have to go through a
0:23:55leak and all that stuff
0:23:56all you really need is a desk somewhere
0:23:57there's a bunch of places but wouldn't
0:24:00you just go to a cafe I guess is my
0:24:02question and I think that's a very good
0:24:04question and that's that's why to jump
0:24:07to the cut to the chase to me that's not
0:24:10how I would ever work i would not get
0:24:12any work done in a place like that i
0:24:15mean you know to me having an office is
0:24:17good and bad because I place to put on
0:24:18my shit like that i like having all my
0:24:20shit that's good but even if you just
0:24:22bring a laptop I cannot imagine a more
0:24:24purpose built environment
0:24:26for distraction and unnecessary noise
0:24:30and movement just in my head like to
0:24:32meet the point of having a place to work
0:24:33in this is it again just goes to show
0:24:34how old I am is I I've had opportunities
0:24:36to go work at places in town where I've
0:24:39gotten you know offers from really nice
0:24:41places like a writing desk your twitter
0:24:43at one point I almost got a place at
0:24:44Twitter so this is great
0:24:45I'll go to south park every day before i
0:24:47got an office like five years ago six
0:24:49years ago when I think I saw like Jason
0:24:51Goldman there's like he's okay yeah we
0:24:53got such up here and I was like this is
0:24:54really nice but boys and four laps you
0:24:58know like 1,100 bucks a month or
0:24:59something you don't get it
0:25:01no it wasn't that much now wasn't that
0:25:02good but it was it was you know they're
0:25:03gonna come here break or something but
0:25:04anyway it would be really cool to work
0:25:06at a you know one side all these cool
0:25:09people but that to me people throwing a
0:25:11ball
0:25:11there's music going on a 2 up to a place
0:25:14they're all like you see me uniquely
0:25:16inappropriate for a large number of
0:25:18people to be doing something quiet in
0:25:20you notice that the I think there's
0:25:22actually a lot of the time I feel like
0:25:25arm i feel like if i were in an
0:25:29environment like that i would just it
0:25:31would be a personal challenge for me to
0:25:35try and distract everyone else as much
0:25:39as I could like I would just go from
0:25:40desk to desk and be like hey what are
0:25:42you working on
0:25:42so how long you been how long you been
0:25:45in Seattle and I would I just couldn't I
0:25:48wouldn't be there to work i would be
0:25:50there to socialize and to meet these
0:25:54people and and find the interesting
0:25:55things about them and and it just it if
0:25:58you if you're going to work i would
0:26:00think you would want to be in a in
0:26:02seclusion but then that's my mind that's
0:26:05the funny part is it's a kid's true both
0:26:07ways i would be equal online media equal
0:26:08parts but depending on the day i went on
0:26:10the one hand be probably pretty annoyed
0:26:13with how much movement activity and
0:26:16noise there was because that's what it
0:26:17is it's a bunch of people in a room
0:26:19doing stuff while on the other hand I
0:26:20could just also see myself walking up
0:26:22and stand by somebody's desk and talking
0:26:23to him for two hours so maybe the worst
0:26:25of both worlds
0:26:26I guess it works i guess it works for
0:26:28some people but I said I i'm with you i
0:26:30can see needing to get out of the house
0:26:32wanting to get out of the house but i'm
0:26:35not sure i understand how much more that
0:26:36offers then you know then
0:26:39then I cafe and I have friends who have
0:26:41tried to do podcasts inside a place like
0:26:42that
0:26:43Wow which is like you know trying to do
0:26:45like in the CNN NEWSROOM or something
0:26:47well do you were so I was thinking about
0:26:50this the other day when I was first
0:26:52starting on out in music in seattle the
0:26:55biggest challenge that as I perceived it
0:26:58at the time was to find a space like a
0:27:01practice like a shed that was the that
0:27:03was the the biggest the biggest obstacle
0:27:08and i had a friend named Rhys Lamb who
0:27:12was a painter and reese was really good
0:27:16at that he knew he knew all the people
0:27:21in the sort of up in underground seattle
0:27:25and i don't mean the where you go on the
0:27:27tour of underground seattle but like he
0:27:29knew all the people living in the in the
0:27:33holes and recent always had a place to
0:27:36paint because he every time you run into
0:27:40me be like oh yeah man i'm painting them
0:27:43in this garage down in the ne you know
0:27:46down in the central district i met a guy
0:27:48who really repairs old refrigerators or
0:27:51I met a guy that you know makes rubber
0:27:53bands and he's got this space in the
0:27:56corner of his plan that you'd go down
0:27:58there and it would be an uninsulated
0:27:59corner of a steel frame building and
0:28:04rhys would be in there painting and time
0:28:07and time again i would say hey you know
0:28:10Reese like can you think of any place in
0:28:15your network of spaces that would you
0:28:17know that i could convert it to a band
0:28:19practice base and he would get all
0:28:20suspicious and you're like well man I
0:28:23mean bands are so loud and you know and
0:28:26he was afraid that if he hooked me up
0:28:29with some space and I turn it into a
0:28:32band practice space it was just going to
0:28:33attract attention to the whole
0:28:35underground economy then somebody's
0:28:37gonna be like what's that making all
0:28:39that noise over there and then you like
0:28:40just a couple clicks out of a meth lab
0:28:42yeah there's not it's not good for the
0:28:44environment to attract attention rock
0:28:46band and then yeah then the cops come
0:28:48around and they're like we're just gonna
0:28:49start busting all these old buildings
0:28:51and then the rubber band guys out of
0:28:53work frigerator got a man it's all
0:28:56because of me that rubber band man is
0:28:59such a good song
0:29:00god that's a great song crazy wonderful
0:29:04but i but but then so then there was you
0:29:08know and they were always like shared
0:29:10band practice basis but but it was like
0:29:14he had to know somebody they were always
0:29:16full to overflowing I couldn't find a
0:29:19space and then my friend Peter took a
0:29:23job as a custodian at a theater company
0:29:27that was occupying an old funeral home
0:29:32Wow Peter was there custodian in
0:29:37exchange for them letting him live in
0:29:41one of the outbuildings which was a the
0:29:43garage where they kept the hearses and
0:29:46it was an onion uninsulated her sera JH
0:29:50well I understand this so he's got a
0:29:52place to do is stuff and a place to live
0:29:54mhm i got what can imagine being in your
0:29:57early twenties and coming into something
0:29:59like that
0:29:59well I can't imagine the eighties movie
0:30:02where you get to have an entire loft
0:30:03yourself for fifty dollars a month
0:30:04oh my i was i was standing right next to
0:30:06Peter when it happened I was like hey
0:30:07this is incredible you know let me help
0:30:10you fix this place up so Peter was
0:30:13pretty handy and we took the garage door
0:30:15off and we took it off we took all the
0:30:19hardware off the garage door and built
0:30:22it so that it was just a wall it still
0:30:24looked like a garage door but it was a
0:30:25wall it didn't open anymore
0:30:27that would have been my choice but that
0:30:29was Peters idea and then we cut a door
0:30:31in the side and we found one of those
0:30:33old sort of patchwork metal doors from
0:30:38an industrial you know it was kind of
0:30:40leaning against side of a building and
0:30:42yeah it looks like a refrigerator like
0:30:44decorated area door
0:30:46Yeah Yeah right we found one of those
0:30:47and and and and hung it in the side of
0:30:50this building and then we went in and
0:30:52got a bunch of futons and drilled holes
0:30:57in the futons and put bolts and washers
0:31:00and then we could hang the futons over
0:31:03the windows and we found a bunch of
0:31:06insulation somewhere and and borrow a
0:31:10ladder and got up and insulated this
0:31:11whole building and it was like this
0:31:12amazing space and i worked on it with
0:31:15Peter for several months making it into
0:31:19like the ultimate bachelor pad practice
0:31:24space and it was a huge garage found
0:31:28some couches some carpets he was living
0:31:30there and he was a he was kind of an a
0:31:33tidy guy he would wake up in the morning
0:31:35and make his bed and put some throw
0:31:38pillows on it so it looks like a couch
0:31:40I don't know what he thought he was he
0:31:43never entertained indignantly just take
0:31:45what he had he had a personal dignity
0:31:47that's right he was German and his
0:31:49parents had like eight brothers and
0:31:50sisters and he just he made his bed in
0:31:52the morning but so then he put a bit he
0:31:55had a band i had a band and we started
0:31:57practicing in this space and right away
0:31:59the relationship went started this hour
0:32:03now and Peter was like you know you know
0:32:07this is my house this is my home
0:32:09you guys are practicing in and leaving
0:32:11your chook to spit cans lying around and
0:32:14you're you know when you're your
0:32:16marijuana reefers and and I was like
0:32:20what do you mean this is your house like
0:32:21this is the this is the fantasy we've
0:32:23always had like it's a bit sup it's like
0:32:25a clubhouse
0:32:26yeah why would use ownership and
0:32:28something so cool that he's like not
0:32:31club is not your Clubhouse it's my
0:32:34Clubhouse
0:32:35I was like you're getting this place for
0:32:37free for like not even being a janitor
0:32:39over at the theatre company anyway it
0:32:43got very contentious and and and and
0:32:47reflecting back on it I realized that I
0:32:49was I was taken over i was taken over
0:32:52his his his private little space and so
0:32:57I went over to the theater company and I
0:32:58was like listen I'm not going to be your
0:33:00janitor but he got he got a couple
0:33:01outbuildings here so i got a couple
0:33:03additional outbuildings
0:33:05let me have one and A and they were like
0:33:11you know we do it we have this space
0:33:12over here that we were going to read to
0:33:13a guy who was a motorcycle repair guy
0:33:16but if you're a band if your artists
0:33:20like we're a theater company we are we
0:33:22are promised on helping people make art
0:33:25and so they gave me this cinder block
0:33:29garage that you know was moldy and
0:33:35covered with oil and I and my band
0:33:38having just helped Peter fix up his we
0:33:41spent three four months fixing up this
0:33:45garage and we actually took the garage
0:33:46door out and built a cinderblock wall
0:33:48just a lot by the Richard Hugo house
0:33:51yeah wow that's so cool so the theater
0:33:54company then sold itself to the Richard
0:33:57Hugo house and I i continued a
0:34:02relationship with them i was sort of
0:34:04grandfathered in and they were like we
0:34:06would much rather use that space to make
0:34:08literary arts but i suppose since you've
0:34:11been here and you did all this work you
0:34:13can continue to be a rock band there
0:34:14god this is like this is a different
0:34:16century yeah and it is still a rock band
0:34:20space to this day it was handed down
0:34:22from us to a series of bands at one
0:34:30point there's somebody will not
0:34:32thermalright somebody kind of super
0:34:34famous there for a while right
0:34:35yeah there were there were there were
0:34:36there were famous 'as there i think
0:34:39various bands that that went in and out
0:34:41of that space that we're all connected
0:34:44by sort of a family relationship to to
0:34:48me 20 years before and I don't need your
0:34:52bastard rock children
0:34:54yeah I don't know who's in there now but
0:34:56the Richard Hugo house just announced
0:34:57that they sold the entire quarter of a
0:35:00block all of the outbuildings in the
0:35:03funeral home and everything to some
0:35:07developers who are going to put in a
0:35:08tower condo tower all really it's all
0:35:13going to get all going to go away
0:35:15all the all the history all the blood
0:35:17and sweat and songs and marijuana
0:35:20reefers reefers & Peters Peters Peters
0:35:24throwing bullets Peters lost the youth
0:35:27and my lost youth and the the first
0:35:29performance ever of unsalted butter and
0:35:31it's all just going to get back hold
0:35:33into the basement of a of some kind of
0:35:37condo fucking tears and rain
0:35:39yeah that's right now I'm Sean well you
0:35:41know I guess good for Richard Hugo house
0:35:43I mean that their margins probably
0:35:44pretty thin they probably don't they
0:35:46probably don't get a lot of people
0:35:47pounding in there like that show me the
0:35:49trout
0:35:49well you know the story of the Richard
0:35:51you go house was thank you i don't know
0:35:53but I you know he's my second favorite
0:35:55American poet i do know that and and
0:35:57like all like a whole healthy boys i
0:36:01have a list well and like you know like
0:36:03all good American friends you and I both
0:36:05have shared with one another are our top
0:36:07four or five American poets but I
0:36:10respect you know weird is that weird
0:36:13it's something everybody that's
0:36:14absolutely not we show each other and
0:36:16then there you know it's not yeah you
0:36:18would like your friend or you're like am
0:36:19visiting seattle can we go by the
0:36:21literary arts center that celebrates the
0:36:23work of my second favorite American poet
0:36:25and i was like hey I happen to have some
0:36:27friends there like needed and let's go
0:36:29i'm curious but the Richard Hugo house
0:36:32was funded by some rich people some one
0:36:36of the you know the first generation of
0:36:37Microsoft and Amazon multi millionaires
0:36:39in this town back when they were
0:36:42millionaires already but the town was
0:36:45still pretty shabby and real estate was
0:36:48cheap
0:36:49right right uh it was talking about this
0:36:51i mean we can't assume everybody's heard
0:36:53every episode of the show I mean you
0:36:54know it sounds like a sinister in a
0:36:57similar way to san francisco obviously
0:36:58in its own way but what Seattle has in
0:37:01your lifetime seen some massive changes
0:37:05yeah yeah yeah yeah well and and not
0:37:08even in my lifetime I mean they're what
0:37:09is it makes it a tragedy is that
0:37:13the changes started after i was already
0:37:15aware of real estate right i mean i
0:37:19remember standing on the tragedy it's
0:37:21you didn't get in on it
0:37:23yeah and away I remember standing on
0:37:25your mommy and your mom did pretty well
0:37:26with that
0:37:27well no not really not considering what
0:37:30we could have done right i mean you
0:37:32could there were there was a time in
0:37:33nineteen ninety five or six when you
0:37:35could still buy a like a lot right
0:37:39undeveloped lot within 10 minutes of
0:37:44walking distance from downtown you can
0:37:47buy it a like a a quarter-acre abandoned
0:37:52lot for $20,000 don't and this you know
0:37:56and and they were kind of all over the
0:37:58place and the reason was that from
0:38:00nineteen that's like four or five months
0:38:02rent for and people who are new to San
0:38:04Francisco
0:38:05Yeah Yeah Yeah right and and and and
0:38:07nobody saw it coming
0:38:09even though i did see it but it was very
0:38:13hard to convince people because from
0:38:161972 1995 that lot was never a lot
0:38:21didn't change in value and Robbie it
0:38:24probably was costly to maintain keep the
0:38:25insurance i'm clean up the needles
0:38:27yeah you got it was probably more more
0:38:29costs and benefits got you gotta pay the
0:38:31taxes
0:38:32yeah there's nothing else and so it's
0:38:34like oh well that was twenty thousand
0:38:36dollars and one across the street was
0:38:37twelve thousand dollars in that lot up
0:38:39there you know that whole like corner
0:38:40lot was twenty-four thousand dollars and
0:38:44450 thousand dollars you could have
0:38:48bought what would what would ultimately
0:38:49be 20 million dollars in real-estate now
0:38:52because they are the developers now are
0:38:55going through that neighborhood and
0:38:56tearing down three-story brick apartment
0:38:59buildings in order to build you know
0:39:02they're tearing down a
0:39:03five-million-dollar building in order to
0:39:04build a fifty-million-dollar old-growth
0:39:06the beams
0:39:07oh yeah they just goes right in the
0:39:09dumpster but and I did see it coming
0:39:11because I could i looked around and i
0:39:13was like well wait a minute
0:39:15um is that you you can buy a house and
0:39:19in the center of Seattle
0:39:22for $50,000 who
0:39:25and yet the world's richest man lives
0:39:28here and not only that but this is the
0:39:32only this this will one day soon be the
0:39:35last livable place I've been to Los
0:39:38Angeles I know what it I know what's
0:39:40going on down there you know that this
0:39:42was all evident 15 years ago but I
0:39:45didn't have any resources and I didn't
0:39:46have any I didn't have the Moxie you
0:39:51know and and and and you have it's the
0:39:54wisdom of retrospect I can look back now
0:39:56and say like I knew it then and I should
0:39:58have devoted all my energy to it but in
0:40:01fact i was trying to I was trying to
0:40:04write songs and being a band i didn't
0:40:05want to be a real estate developer if
0:40:07you're right you know if you but like
0:40:08you know sometimes sometimes you even if
0:40:10it's something in plain sight
0:40:11there's nothing that ever gets you to do
0:40:14something about it it's hard to explain
0:40:15what I've idolized i'm fond of saying
0:40:17it's difficult for me to try to explain
0:40:19to people why didn't do something
0:40:20Yeah Yeah Yeah right that's what the
0:40:22caricature he calls the trigger account
0:40:24think again he can't you can't prove a
0:40:27negative but anyway Richard Hugo house
0:40:28these people were the were newly minted
0:40:32millionaires and they went into Capitol
0:40:36Hill's ritzy neighborhood and there is a
0:40:42particular house right across the street
0:40:43from the Cornish College of the Arts
0:40:45that is a massive and beautiful gracious
0:40:51home but it's right on a busy street and
0:40:58it's one of those beautiful homes that
0:40:59when it was built and every once in a
0:41:02while a guy would would putter by in a
0:41:04one cylinder car pop up and go people
0:41:08you know it was like oh that's charming
0:41:13right we we have put our are big home on
0:41:16the main street because we're Marty
0:41:18McFly's family lived in 1955 line
0:41:21estates or whatever me but maybe you
0:41:27know because it made because the guy who
0:41:28was bringing the milk on the horse-drawn
0:41:30cart
0:41:31a that kind of like busyness of the
0:41:36street did not
0:41:37it didn't impact your enjoyment of your
0:41:40home right right the streetcar went by
0:41:42somebody wrote by on a on a giant
0:41:46bicycle a penny farthing or whatever but
0:41:49there was no like being on a busy street
0:41:51was not it was not disadvantageous and
0:41:54now there's this big beautiful gracious
0:41:56home but all day long is just round
0:41:59round round buses and cars and and it's
0:42:03just not it doesn't have it doesn't have
0:42:06enough seclusion right so there's a
0:42:08beautiful home but but but it's it's
0:42:10such a big pile of of luxurious finishes
0:42:16that even though it's on a busy street
0:42:19you couldn't afford to live there unless
0:42:21you were a rich person and if you were a
0:42:24rich person why would you want to live
0:42:25there so the Richard Hugo house people
0:42:29initially went to that neighborhood and
0:42:32they were like we're gonna buy this
0:42:33house and it made perfect sense it was
0:42:36like it was this fantastic place and big
0:42:40entry hall a staircase that you could
0:42:44take a team of horses up and I just
0:42:49screamed literary arts center and then
0:42:52it in an early example of sort of
0:42:55Seattle NIMBY the other the old rich
0:42:59people who lived in the in the gracious
0:43:01homes right around there were all like
0:43:03what we don't want but we're all these
0:43:06literary arts people going to park
0:43:08are you kidding we don't want to lose
0:43:10some kind of literary can't imagine a
0:43:13better neighbor that's going to invite
0:43:15people that wear feathers for jewelry
0:43:21that a literary arts you're gonna hear
0:43:24those pencils scratching and neighbor
0:43:28gave up together and kept the hugo house
0:43:34from being able to buy it they it wasn't
0:43:38just a grassroots campaign they actually
0:43:40went to the city and said this
0:43:41neighborhood is not zoned for this kind
0:43:45of of questionable commercial artistic
0:43:50use and so so they chase Richard you go
0:43:55out out and and that your house bought
0:43:57that funeral home kind of like it was
0:43:59pretty far down on there it was left
0:44:04their fourth choice or whatever
0:44:05by the time by the time they were able
0:44:07to get that place there like listen we
0:44:09just need to buy a place and I think if
0:44:13i recall correctly they they bought that
0:44:16entire lot and funeral home and
0:44:19everything for a million bucks and i'm
0:44:23sure i'm absolutely sure that it's it
0:44:25it's a ten-million-dollar piece of real
0:44:27estate now or more
0:44:29I know goodness $59 so they didn't do
0:44:32too badly but I still drive past that
0:44:37big beautiful home across from the
0:44:39Cornish College of the Arts and think it
0:44:44if this i mean one day this will be a
0:44:47literary arts center if I have my way
0:44:49when I am an old man i will come here
0:44:52and i will turn this into a literary
0:44:54arts center just despite the ghosts of
0:44:58those people because it's AI mean when
0:45:01that house was built someone had the
0:45:03someone recently probably wrote literary
0:45:07arts center in chalk on a beam it was
0:45:10meant for that so mad
0:45:14that's funny also because um you know
0:45:17you would want in a guy down but so much
0:45:20what he wrote about that some memorable
0:45:21arm he had a real eye for just all kinds
0:45:26of stuff and Pacific Northwest but one
0:45:29of the things that makes him a good poet
0:45:31I for a lot of different kinds of stuff
0:45:33what
0:45:33I mean you know he's famous you if you
0:45:35first became famous for his fish bones
0:45:37whatever but like the stuff is that I
0:45:39enjoy and remember the most is enough
0:45:41about like tumbledown Western towns just
0:45:44kind of and you know kind of analogies
0:45:47for life falling apart that you go and
0:45:50visit
0:45:50it's kind of funny though that like that
0:45:52to me is what he has to write a
0:45:53wonderful book on writing that i can
0:45:55highly recommend called the triggering
0:45:56town
0:45:56I like your love Richard Hugo is one of
0:45:59my favorite loves and there's so many
0:46:01things in my life I will talk about John
0:46:03because it bores other people and
0:46:04portable what I talk about what poets i
0:46:05like it makes me so excited you know
0:46:07he's really the rich man's by which i
0:46:10mean poor man's but a carver you know
0:46:14what I mean like he's that is uh yeah
0:46:18Capote the poet but but without so much
0:46:22rich man's Raymond Carver is the rich
0:46:25please the rich man's poor man's Raymond
0:46:27Carver huh
0:46:28that's my favorite people that's my
0:46:29favorite big blackout this episode of
0:46:33Roderick on the line is sponsored by a
0:46:35game called threes three's a tiny puzzle
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0:46:52threes has ruined our lives
0:46:54John and I are mere husks of men at this
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0:47:01John I want to get to the bottom of this
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0:47:09here's an excerpt from the interview
0:47:11it will be fun to throw in something
0:47:15like a tip
0:47:17what do you think John yeah well a tip
0:47:20or even an argument like I've never had
0:47:24to make an argument your entire fucking
0:47:26life I feel like it we started talking
0:47:29about Three's we would we would develop
0:47:32a narrative pretty quickly around the
0:47:36idea that it is diabolical
0:47:38oh I like the end and that it is that
0:47:42you know that if it it will affect your
0:47:45self-esteem if you are not a strong
0:47:47person you know will discover the truth
0:47:51about three is basically so I understand
0:47:53what you're saying here we're definitely
0:47:55saying that we're going to help you by
0:47:56letting you know we're going to tear the
0:47:58veil away from this this monstrosity but
0:48:00it's also I think we've been getting you
0:48:01write a little bit like Lex Luthor or in
0:48:03superman movie where he's saying some
0:48:05people can read a candy wrapper and like
0:48:07I understand the secrets of the universe
0:48:08right exactly i feel like we need to
0:48:11unmask certain aspects of threes so that
0:48:15it isn't you know I wouldn't give threes
0:48:17say to a vulnerable person here the rest
0:48:26of the interview and find out ashes
0:48:27plans for harnessing your game play for
0:48:29free electric power please visit shown
0:48:32us for this episode at Roderick
0:48:33online.com you can download the full
0:48:35interview for free there
0:48:37listen to it a lot of fun and like we
0:48:38said you can learn how to grab your own
0:48:40copy of threes by visiting threes
0:48:42gamecom or by visiting the App Store on
0:48:44your mobile device and Real Talk guys
0:48:46thanks a million Asher for making our
0:48:48all-time favorite video game for taking
0:48:50the time to talk to us and for
0:48:51supporting Roderick on the line
0:48:53I was listening to buffalo Tom on the
0:48:59weigh-in today bar brains like and the
0:49:05Twitter yeah he's good
0:49:07I are buying a used to sound a lot like
0:49:10dinosaur
0:49:11well yeah and the replacements like all
0:49:13those bands yet from the late eighties
0:49:15in America all sounded like dinosaur jr
0:49:18and the replacements and end the
0:49:21recordings don't sound very good and
0:49:23there's there's a lot of kind of I guess
0:49:26jangle strumming but through over driven
0:49:29names
0:49:30yeah it's also weird how I mean even I
0:49:32think this kind of happened even with
0:49:33dump truck but there are others that
0:49:35cluster of bands from around that time
0:49:37were like they were these crusty post
0:49:41minneapolis not exactly hardcore bands
0:49:43but like my only was a pop-punk but you
0:49:45know what I mean
0:49:46bands like lemon heads and like soul
0:49:48asylum that were very I think very much
0:49:51had their roots I'm not to disparage but
0:49:54very much had their roots the book pets
0:49:56to junior the book pens
0:49:57yeah but me it's funny you go back and
0:49:58listen lemonheads back when the other
0:50:00guy wrote songs too
0:50:01they sound a lot like mr. do abs and
0:50:04obviously soul asylum stuff before like
0:50:08hang time sounds so much like the
0:50:11replacements it's fun i'm just another
0:50:14delights yellow kind of secret record
0:50:16and who's the who's the guy with the
0:50:18frosted hair you know the guys that
0:50:22became really popular window metric no
0:50:24home no come on and nobody
0:50:27yeah the group training never coming
0:50:31back now that's all right now to get a
0:50:33google dolls dolls dolls used to sound
0:50:36even more like they send a lot like what
0:50:39is it finding all of those bands that
0:50:40you can go back and listen like they're
0:50:41late eighties output and I state my hang
0:50:44time it's glossy but it's a good album
0:50:46it's like replacements meets cheap trick
0:50:47is great but then those I but i couldn't
0:50:50i never got into the goo goo dolls i
0:50:52could never get anybody like it'sit's
0:50:53what's funny in retrospect because if
0:50:55you do go back and listen to those
0:50:56records you so clearly here they going
0:50:58oh my god i really want to I mean it
0:51:00seems like kind of me in rem at one time
0:51:02like oh my gosh I would love to recreate
0:51:03this certain sound
0:51:05and it's funny because then they'd all
0:51:07like to a band got famous for some
0:51:10generally power ballad or six so you got
0:51:13the runaway train
0:51:14I'm gonna take these wool pants off
0:51:16excuse me don't know please go ahead i'm
0:51:18talking talking we're taking my so hot
0:51:20who
0:51:21so you got that in the lemonheads they
0:51:22started to kind of turn it down you know
0:51:25starting with the it's a shame about ray
0:51:27stuff that's right then they got all I
0:51:29think he actually did win a writer like
0:51:30everybody now was she got there you got
0:51:33done never did I never dated Buffalo Tom
0:51:35they had the headlight song that was
0:51:37kind of a power ballad you do you
0:51:39remember i remember a early nineties all
0:51:44the way after grunge had already a
0:51:48crested Paul Westerberg still was voted
0:51:53America's number one songwriter in some
0:51:56Rolling Stone pole and and I remember
0:52:00you know what the Academy Awards there
0:52:02John that's getting better 17 really
0:52:04felt like Tim Conway getting an Emmy
0:52:06water appearance on 31 if it's a very
0:52:11little left my book at matts go really
0:52:15really that's better than satisfied i'm
0:52:17telling you everything is that REM i I
0:52:20don't know what I don't know whether it
0:52:21is just that I certainly did you drink
0:52:25the kool-aid and then that's the
0:52:27kool-aid that you drank drank the
0:52:28kool-aid that was given in your time I
0:52:30think that's right but a butt like
0:52:31monster was the first REM Malcolm you
0:52:33heard we're gonna have some very awkward
0:52:34country yeah I guess that's true but
0:52:36like the first three REM records are
0:52:38here
0:52:39I you know they are absolutely
0:52:41bulletproof and and there's not a single
0:52:43even the wrong notes are right and yet I
0:52:48you know put on I'll put on the
0:52:50replacements and I know I know I've
0:52:54heard it all a thousand times and I'm
0:52:55and I saw them back in the day and i
0:52:58have sat on i have sat on a dirty couch
0:53:01with two other guys in horn-rimmed
0:53:04glasses and uh and and baseball hats
0:53:08from feed and seed companies and we have
0:53:10argued about this for 25 years I've been
0:53:13arguing about this but I put on those
0:53:14replacements record just go there
0:53:16really yeah well I i got a thought on
0:53:20that I I have a theory on why that would
0:53:23because I sometimes think i'll take what
0:53:25i think this is the most
0:53:25oh I hope this is the most radical thing
0:53:27I say today is that I i think i think
0:53:32that
0:53:33Let It Be is a way better finished
0:53:37product then Tim I think the production
0:53:40on tim is incredibly dated my even Jim
0:53:43Dickinson stuff on pleased to meet me
0:53:46I mean my god i'm not gonna bring up the
0:53:48gated problem but there's a lot of gated
0:53:50reverb on there that makes it sound like
0:53:51they're playing in half a toilet with
0:53:53the lip balm but what I mean there is
0:53:57not there is no worse record in terms of
0:54:02production then I against I Bad Brains
0:54:06really
0:54:07and yet what I this allows any records
0:54:10that like i said is misty records with
0:54:12yeah that's that spot guy ruined a lot
0:54:16of really good albums you really did and
0:54:18and and i mean i think that is a
0:54:20fantastic album i can hear it i can
0:54:23listen to it and love it through the
0:54:25production
0:54:25yeah i do not care different you might
0:54:27be remembering right it's pretty River
0:54:29be oh my god who knows it sounds like
0:54:31they put it sounds like they put a
0:54:32microphone down a manhole cover and the
0:54:35band was playing in a truck that was
0:54:36driving by the rich language truck
0:54:38there's no that they were never there
0:54:41playing a like a ok i'm sure that's bad
0:54:45breaking like not it's just sounds
0:54:48terrible and and when you listen to you
0:54:49can't help but say like oh god if you
0:54:51could just have also been recording this
0:54:54record when this record was recorded
0:54:56like if there was another guy there who
0:54:58was actually recorded back to your
0:54:59theory about being a producer is more
0:55:01than standing behind the faders it's
0:55:02having editorial voice to make sure that
0:55:04you got the skills to make it sound good
0:55:05and then you make sure it sounds good
0:55:07yeah right i mean you just I mean I'm
0:55:09sure that recording a band was really
0:55:10difficult and just personality-wise like
0:55:14HR came in and you know and just started
0:55:17calling you not hear whatever it was or
0:55:19a Jew or whatever it was is because his
0:55:21trip was that our but but you know my
0:55:25god that those performances that moment
0:55:27in time right you can't go back and read
0:55:29course that record because nobody could
0:55:31do it nobody could play that record now
0:55:33it was they had they were they had they
0:55:37were touched by angels right but you're
0:55:39saying you're saying that as a new
0:55:41brother replacements hasn't moved you as
0:55:42much as it's not a lot of people I
0:55:44songwriting i mean the the sounds of
0:55:48those records not withstand the song you
0:55:50don't like the songwriting I'd it's not
0:55:52that I don't like it I just go like yeah
0:55:54this is for other people this is for
0:55:57guys in feed and seed hats or this is
0:56:00for the goo goo dolls uh this one this
0:56:03is the you know like I felt that way
0:56:06about Dylan the first time I heard him
0:56:07but then I grew to understand and love
0:56:09Dylan and Dylan moves me now but I've
0:56:12gone back to the replacements well a
0:56:14hundred times and I always just come out
0:56:17of it feeling like yeah those were the
0:56:19guys that lived in the house across the
0:56:20street from the house that I lived in
0:56:21and we were friendly but not friends
0:56:24mmm yeah I mean I i can't i can't argue
0:56:28with that I mean you know at the time
0:56:29that something becomes a sensation
0:56:30whether it's any of these bands are my
0:56:32other favorite bands that i learned
0:56:33about because they became sensations you
0:56:35know a lot of it has to do with the time
0:56:37and the time in the timing and some of
0:56:38that stuff does age better than others
0:56:42some of it was never really that great
0:56:43to begin with and Buffalo tom is an
0:56:46example of a band that i saw in 1990-91
0:56:50and the show just blew me away
0:56:53and so I I can't hear a bad word about
0:56:55him you know what I mean like I love
0:56:56i'll always love them because I remember
0:56:59the feeling of being at their show and
0:57:02feeling like this is doable like this is
0:57:05doable
0:57:06these guys are doing this and it's and I
0:57:08could do this this is doable and this is
0:57:11amazing in this show
0:57:12there are a lot of people at the show
0:57:15and they're all it was that first time
0:57:17because i always going to punk shows
0:57:20right right
0:57:21those were the only shows that you went
0:57:23to like hard hard-core show is where a
0:57:26lot of it was about the mechanics and
0:57:27volume
0:57:28yeah right i mean i couldn't afford to
0:57:30go see the to the cure is our ship right
0:57:35I wasn't going to go to those shows i
0:57:36was going to the show the five-dollar
0:57:37show at the rec center of the three
0:57:39dollar show direction
0:57:40and those bands were all hardcore bands
0:57:42and and so I would be at the show and I
0:57:45would look around and everybody was
0:57:46rocking their there punk thing and I
0:57:52loved I loved to Slamdance it was one of
0:57:55my favorite things to do but i was i did
0:57:57not walk out of that show and feel like
0:57:59you know what I'm gonna shave my head
0:58:01and I'm gonna start you know I'm gonna
0:58:06go vegan and i'm going to start like
0:58:09living and working at a soup kitchen
0:58:10like i did not i was not transformed
0:58:13into right now I know but at buffalo Tom
0:58:16show i looked around and i was like wow
0:58:18like everybody here is my age and
0:58:21they're all wearing carhartt jackets and
0:58:26there are there girls here and most of
0:58:30these guys are wearing glasses like
0:58:32these are my people
0:58:35it was it was really it was really kind
0:58:38of uh it was afraid was freaky
0:58:41well yeah yeah and now you're making me
0:58:43think because that was that some of the
0:58:45early shows i went to and it was just
0:58:48their electric I mean just so such a
0:58:50adrenaline shot to go to a show like
0:58:52that but what's funny is like sometimes
0:58:54I would end up seeing bad thing
0:58:55especially bands that were opening for
0:58:57somebody else that I had heard the name
0:58:59of it might be a little bit familiar
0:59:00with but bands were like that some of
0:59:03the bands that really ended up sticking
0:59:04with me like yo tengo and steelies and
0:59:07these bands were you go and like if you
0:59:09just heard their record first you might
0:59:11you might not get it but we're girls are
0:59:15killed big example of all man they were
0:59:17when they were good they were real
0:59:19glossy but they were they were amazing
0:59:21they were fun and funny but like yeah
0:59:23but I mean you'll attend go to me like I
0:59:24think there's something is fantastic i
0:59:26think the evolution of them over time is
0:59:27great i think they seem like interesting
0:59:29people or you know again with the
0:59:31feelies the Phillies are like as close
0:59:33as I'll ever get to something like the
0:59:34Grateful Dead like where you go and i'm
0:59:36justin intently watching the way this
0:59:38song is unfolding because it's it is it
0:59:41is very rock and roll you know but it's
0:59:43just very very intense but it's also
0:59:46kind of nerdy like yo tengo that's if
0:59:48there's something basically nerdy about
0:59:50it but it just happens to rock so called
0:59:53me that night
0:59:53and then that leads me down the rabbit
0:59:55hole of going and looking for all the
0:59:56records from those guys that's then that
0:59:58stuff that is really like you Buffalo
0:59:59tom
0:59:59tom
1:00:00stuff that really stuck with me and i
1:00:02don't i don't think it's defensible I
1:00:04don't think you can I don't think you
1:00:05could stand on a on a on a on a
1:00:09overturned create outside of hyde park
1:00:13and say I like Buffalo Tom and don't
1:00:16like the replacements like I don't think
1:00:18that that is artistically defensive when
1:00:20people use your time i'm i'm gonna get a
1:00:23ticket to London and I maybe i'm going
1:00:25to make that case you didn't get a
1:00:27moment of your time please gather around
1:00:29gather around
1:00:30I know John Buffalo Tom but it but I
1:00:36don't care for the replacement soap
1:00:39watch once I driver behind you but but
1:00:45there it is
1:00:46you know what I made through the coffee
1:00:47cup of pee at you don't follow budget i
1:00:54take your p you that
1:00:58mmm yeah yeah even listening music the
1:01:02same way anymore though John it's just
1:01:03not the same anymore
1:01:04yeah I guess I don't we came from the
1:01:08actions guess I don't care I don't care
1:01:12I was listening I was listening to the
1:01:14radio and they were playing some old
1:01:15music by which i mean music from my
1:01:19youth like you know Punk and grunge and
1:01:23i was struck again by how bad
1:01:25most of it was and I realized that
1:01:28there's you couldn't you could not sit a
1:01:31young person down and explain what it
1:01:34meant you know you couldn't you couldn't
1:01:37sit them down and say like it used to be
1:01:39hard to hear music
1:01:41it used to be hard to even find it right
1:01:45yeah you first you had to get the
1:01:46rosetta stone that tells you which bands
1:01:48to even know the name of then you had to
1:01:50find out like what their music was like
1:01:52you had to read extensive reviews
1:01:53there's like five steps before you ever
1:01:55even went and spent your fucking money
1:01:57on it for this thing and not that thing
1:01:59but 22 to be important to be 22 years
1:02:02old in it in my case and go to a rock
1:02:07show
1:02:08where it was your first exposure to the
1:02:11audience to an audience that looked like
1:02:15you who like kind of first time ever
1:02:19right because the more i think about it
1:02:21like I'd been to heavy metal stadium
1:02:25concerts and I'd been to a thousand a
1:02:29punk rock shows in youth Center's but I
1:02:32had never been to a show in a club where
1:02:35the where the other people where the
1:02:38audience had taken some college classes
1:02:41because those bands didn't come to
1:02:44Anchorage right re i'm never played in
1:02:46Anchorage when I was growing up and and
1:02:49that and to be 22 years old and have it
1:02:52be the first time that you ever were
1:02:54standing in a room where you were like I
1:02:55believe that this room of people is a
1:02:58mirror i am seeing myself for the first
1:03:01time
1:03:02how would you explain that to someone
1:03:04who was 22 years old now right
1:03:07I'm because presumably they have
1:03:09certainly bit there they are aware that
1:03:14there are rooms full of people who
1:03:16resemble them even if they've never been
1:03:19in one was designing a lot fewer things
1:03:22that are just strictly speaking a black
1:03:23box there are a lot fewer things where
1:03:26you actually have no idea what this is
1:03:28gonna be like right or it's just not
1:03:30possible to find out what it's going to
1:03:31be like until you do it until you do it
1:03:33right you could not you i could not have
1:03:35had an advanced I guess somebody I guess
1:03:38somebody could have said like you should
1:03:40go to this show because you seem like
1:03:43you would be a fan of them right
1:03:45that would be the closest would be the
1:03:47closest approximation of like here's
1:03:51where you belong and it turned out I
1:03:53didn't belong there either right
1:03:55I walked around and I was like hi hi
1:03:57nice to meet you high and everybody was
1:03:59like you know we don't really just walk
1:04:01up and say hi to each other that's kind
1:04:02of the way this works
1:04:04that's not how we do it I was like oh
1:04:05right right okay okay mm yeah
1:04:08I was thinking about that the other day
1:04:10I was walking down the street and I'm i
1:04:11was taught I don't know about you but I
1:04:13was taught that when you're walking down
1:04:15the street you make eye contact with
1:04:18people and and nod and smile like you
1:04:23make eye contact with people that you
1:04:25pass on the street have we talked about
1:04:26this now and you're worrying a little
1:04:30bit and now I where we talked about John
1:04:34get to be an hour
1:04:36ok that's right that's right don't move
1:04:46bespoke oh got out of there well saved