Roderick on the Line

Ep. 132: "You Cannot Lie to Your Pants"

 

  this episode of Roderick on the line is [TS]

  sponsored by threes threes is a tiny [TS]

  puzzle that grows on you [TS]

  you can play it forever and it will [TS]

  always be in your pocket learn more [TS]

  about three by searching your app store [TS]

  for threes or by visiting threes [TS]

  game.com [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  hello hi John hi Merlin how's it going [TS]

  Jim Dandy [TS]

  uh-huh uh-huh that's sweet [TS]

  it's going to be upbeat episode of saved [TS]

  you're in the universe contingent on us [TS]

  um i am wearing my wall pants today [TS]

  nice and it is nice except you know that [TS]

  first day that you put on the wall pants [TS]

  you really have to get used to this [TS]

  appealing scratchy yeah i just said it's [TS]

  not a planned [TS]

  no these are old and they're just full [TS]

  as all get-out [TS]

  they just took the sheet basically and [TS]

  and editor took the insides out and yeah [TS]

  right make condoms and pants and uhhh [TS]

  yeah it feels good it feels good for [TS]

  winter to be here and for it to be like [TS]

  time to get down to the nitty-gritty I [TS]

  want some different pants today to just [TS]

  to mix it up a little bit you know [TS]

  different different pair of Levi's you [TS]

  mean or well yeah different pair of [TS]

  levis 501 this is the the second [TS]

  brattiest pair that i own and I wear [TS]

  them probably once a quarter because if [TS]

  I see somebody from my child's school on [TS]

  the street it leaves an impression [TS]

  OIC already won Miami ding-dong falls [TS]

  out so I can't wear those varieties are [TS]

  you i know you know the wear patterns [TS]

  every man has different wear patterns on [TS]

  his Levi's 501 that are weirdly [TS]

  consistent if you notice this [TS]

  yeah but you have very different very [TS]

  distinctive wear patterns on your pants [TS]

  well I know what you're thinking of go [TS]

  ahead because I'm doing because the [TS]

  phone [TS]

  well the phone but also you carry uh are [TS]

  you at least you used to carry your [TS]

  space pen in your front pocket [TS]

  remember that and the space pen leaves a [TS]

  lead you know over time you have a BF [TS]

  like a a war a worn a Warren space pen [TS]

  shadow in their energy in front [TS]

  yeah yeah that's mostly from yes you are [TS]

  a hundred percent correct time I wear [TS]

  patterns are that's a classic I I now [TS]

  carry a different kind of pen when I [TS]

  carry a pan so it doesn't leave the same [TS]

  little bit right exactly the shape [TS]

  of the space pen in my right pocket and [TS]

  then of course that starts out just [TS]

  leaving shape then it leaves a white [TS]

  shadow and then of course you get the [TS]

  we're so right then it's like it starts [TS]

  to break right you get you [TS]

  ok here's I if there's one thing to take [TS]

  away from this episode today and this [TS]

  you cannot lie to your pants your pants [TS]

  know the truth about you boy that is the [TS]

  truth so many ways today now i have a [TS]

  very very clear outline of an iphone 5s [TS]

  oh I say pocket right yet but you know [TS]

  but it's a.m. and we want to even get [TS]

  into more unsavory ways that your jeans [TS]

  tell the story but they can trip to [TS]

  Germany tobacco back-in-the-day sure [TS]

  yeah and did you ever have a you can [TS]

  read me like a oh gosh yes I mean I [TS]

  think that you could actually probably [TS]

  go to county seat and by a kind of a [TS]

  fake school can you can wash in your [TS]

  laundry just to get the ring for have to [TS]

  have the credit for the school i [TS]

  remember at other I'm not proud of it [TS]

  but it but at a certain point I was very [TS]

  opposed to chewing tobacco when I was in [TS]

  my young teens because a lot of my [TS]

  friends dude in school don't you talk [TS]

  about stuff I'm talking about yeah [TS]

  copenhagen snuff yeah as opposed to the [TS]

  red man like they want to read man no [TS]

  and Anna mean it was there was a pretty [TS]

  at the time pretty clear divide between [TS]

  like guys that should skull who were [TS]

  like pussies ya candy asses [TS]

  yeah and guys that should cope who were [TS]

  like a good normals or redness off [TS]

  regard yeah you know who stuffs and this [TS]

  was before the advent of all the other [TS]

  kinds of of snuff there was no Kodiak at [TS]

  the time now they get eaten get some [TS]

  hot-ass new yeah I've seen that my dish [TS]

  well now I guess there it was called [TS]

  some people actually called it's new you [TS]

  know [TS]

  yes I was probably a grassroots think [TS]

  I'm not trying to derail you i type this [TS]

  in Florida this was a thing [TS]

  it was a very real thing well it was [TS]

  very real in in Alaska to and Iraq so I [TS]

  was opposed to chewing and I would and I [TS]

  was I was kind of a like a you know if [TS]

  you can believe this i would Hector my [TS]

  friends [TS]

  and lecture them about what they were [TS]

  doing wrong while you were just crossing [TS]

  over for a young age I can't who wanted [TS]

  to make women be chased man you an idea [TS]

  what he was doing in between your head [TS]

  wisdom that's right and so I was like [TS]

  you guys cheering tobacco's is terrible [TS]

  I you know I disapprove of you sitting [TS]

  in the back glass and spitting to into a [TS]

  cocaine and I had enough I had enough [TS]

  leverage with them not leverage but just [TS]

  like you know that they would they would [TS]

  try and conceal their chewing from me [TS]

  but you can't conceal that from your [TS]

  friend but I I really envied the two can [TS]

  ring in the back pockets of their genes [TS]

  it just had such a nice [TS]

  it just said so much you know i mean it [TS]

  said upset a lot about a guy had [TS]

  signification and so I started carrying [TS]

  a toucan as a little wallet as a little [TS]

  like Dimebag yeah i would get a life [TS]

  hack [TS]

  yeah i would put shit in an old shoe can [TS]

  that my friend kevin gave me that I [TS]

  washed it out and then I would you know [TS]

  I'd fold up my money and and notes or [TS]

  whatever and I mean you couldn't you [TS]

  couldn't use it as a wallet because he [TS]

  couldn't put an idea in it but I you [TS]

  know I I did for a while I carried it [TS]

  around as a little pouch and then I just [TS]

  started chewing tobacco and and the rest [TS]

  was history [TS]

  I get down you know we talked before [TS]

  about the other kind of wallet that i [TS]

  carry because people care it's one of [TS]

  those little taxi taxi driver wallets [TS]

  which is not a super thin wallet but it [TS]

  really works for me it folds in half [TS]

  like a billfold it's got a little class [TS]

  breaking point of cars inside very very [TS]

  clear outline including down to we can [TS]

  see the snap where the snap is iike area [TS]

  taxi well to that I originally there [TS]

  like that that use this one your I gave [TS]

  your mom your mom do [TS]

  yeah so you gave it to mom she gave it [TS]

  to me I wore it [TS]

  no I did that I don't know either she [TS]

  was like I don't know why miss Merlin [TS]

  gave me a man's wallet but would you [TS]

  like [TS]

  yeah true and i warn't until it was [TS]

  until so that it would it came apart and [TS]

  then I was at the thrift store and I [TS]

  found a completely unused one [TS]

  Wow an identical one to the 1i had I was [TS]

  I was you know I was fixing it with tape [TS]

  by that point and i found what i was [TS]

  just like mom and I actually had to [TS]

  fight a Chinese lady for it [TS]

  oh man she was like she kind of was [TS]

  standing there at the same time and I [TS]

  picked it up and I was like check it out [TS]

  and she was like I was just about to [TS]

  pick that up I was like really you're [TS]

  about to pick it up and frog had wings [TS]

  you wouldn't doubt that'll happen and [TS]

  that's a I don't know about that about [TS]

  to pick it up and we SAT and talked [TS]

  about it for a while I don't interested [TS]

  and legally for that John she was like I [TS]

  want you to have it was like are you [TS]

  sure [TS]

  um here's what I want to get to and and [TS]

  so there's all the stuff that goes on in [TS]

  the in the belt area that we're not [TS]

  going to get into but I this is the [TS]

  thing is so strange to me is the wear [TS]

  patterns any season shoes I think you [TS]

  see this in pants I guess if you weren't [TS]

  long enough you see this in a jacket but [TS]

  two very distinct asymmetrical wear [TS]

  patterns so I mean I guess maybe it's [TS]

  kind of obvious you have this with shoes [TS]

  because we all like whatever pronator [TS]

  we've got some kind of imbalance I'm [TS]

  sure chiropractor could give you some [TS]

  kind of massage for this but you know [TS]

  youryour to shoot you go grab go grab [TS]

  four five pairs of shoes you have for [TS]

  that you only have had for a few years [TS]

  flip over and it's remarkable that the [TS]

  wear patterns on the bottom now for me [TS]

  that's the knees on the jeans that i [TS]

  cannot i don't know why I thought about [TS]

  it maybe I figured out but it's so [TS]

  strange to me that genes that I've had [TS]

  for three four five more years [TS]

  ah one knee always starts to wear before [TS]

  the other and the other knee then [TS]

  consequently blows out for the other and [TS]

  gets bigger hole I'll be right for you [TS]

  you don't talking about I do and there's [TS]

  this on cuffs you'll notice this on [TS]

  elbows it's really interesting and [TS]

  sherlock holmes probably well obviously [TS]

  you're a Scrivener yeah rights right [TS]

  remember genuflecting I don't genuflect [TS]

  I don't know you're a mincer you mince [TS]

  around you know it well maybe not you [TS]

  but a certain certain type of person [TS]

  mrs. around I do like that [TS]

  minutes i think i doing a very masculine [TS]

  way yeah it's a masculine mincing but it [TS]

  still wear your jeans differently [TS]

  yeah I sometimes will as I'm walking [TS]

  around i wasn't i was in a mall the [TS]

  other day which is not that's not what I [TS]

  want to be but as I had to go from one [TS]

  into the most of the others a long trip [TS]

  across the mall and I'm so as I was [TS]

  walking I was consciously trying to [TS]

  change my gate [TS]

  I was like you didn't spy thing well I [TS]

  was point you know I I think I I walk a [TS]

  little splayed and I was I don't know it [TS]

  if you ever try this but without looking [TS]

  at your feet [TS]

  particularly if you walks played without [TS]

  looking your feet you point your toes in [TS]

  and imagine that you are walking sort of [TS]

  pigeon-toed and then you look down at [TS]

  your feet and yours and you did [TS]

  they're not even pointing straight right [TS]

  i mean it's so unfamiliar to walk with [TS]

  your feet pointing straight and it [TS]

  changes everything [TS]

  the everything up and down like you your [TS]

  hips feel different your whole body [TS]

  feels different and when I was walking [TS]

  across Europe but i would do that for [TS]

  days at a time just be very conscious of [TS]

  like I'm just pointing my toes in the [TS]

  direction that I'm traveling and and I [TS]

  still do it sometimes as a way of you [TS]

  know a similar type of thing you look at [TS]

  the bottoms of your shoes and you're [TS]

  like wow like I'm wearing these shoes [TS]

  and such a weird fashion just gonna [TS]

  start can I be doing it feels like I'm [TS]

  taking a step in another step and [TS]

  everything is equal in normal i'm not [TS]

  you know averaging out every so many [TS]

  years you wouldn't say I'm taking this [TS]

  many more right turns and left turns [TS]

  frames really strange and yet you know [TS]

  there you are because we are all just [TS]

  flopping around like nowhere as a [TS]

  metrical I don't want to begin to death [TS]

  it's the lack of symmetry it's it's own [TS]

  is speaking of malls and essentially [TS]

  something in the in the robot can see [TS]

  that and you let me see let me see one [TS]

  here especially i'm curious to get your [TS]

  thoughts on this as somebody who follows [TS]

  people be the trends in technology [TS]

  naps and tell her that you're going [TS]

  afternoons [TS]

  yeah let's see i see so app trends here [TS]

  not let go it is that should be a blue [TS]

  thing and they do ya think it's okay and [TS]

  it's a link to come from grippy yep so [TS]

  my daughter and I would see a movie the [TS]

  other day I went to the big mall [TS]

  downtown and you know it's a it's [TS]

  actually it's a kind of a fancy it's the [TS]

  fancy mall downtown like it's a dynamic [TS]

  new destination so fancy [TS]

  hang on hang on saving go ahead and read [TS]

  it but save it [TS]

  mmm yeah so you get so fancy that you [TS]

  can get off the subway at palace street [TS]

  and actually walk in 2000 you don't even [TS]

  have to go outside westfield center and [TS]

  and so we gots one of my favorite place [TS]

  to see movies they've got good seats [TS]

  they got great food is a great food [TS]

  court and it's a great daddy daughter [TS]

  day place to count and one of our stops [TS]

  has always been this thing that of [TS]

  course used to be a barnes and noble [TS]

  then after it wasn't a barnes and noble [TS]

  like all places it became a remainder [TS]

  bookstore right that's that's the [TS]

  Destiny the destiny every barnes and [TS]

  noble will ironically enough become a [TS]

  remainder bookstore then they started [TS]

  adding toys to it so is this great place [TS]

  where you can go and you like to dollar [TS]

  books puzzles doctor who figures it was [TS]

  really a fun place to go [TS]

  well I'm story short we show how many [TS]

  more new guess what [TS]

  something new is moving in it used to be [TS]

  a barnes and noble then it was a no-name [TS]

  remainder book and toy store now John [TS]

  something new and there's a new thought [TS]

  technology at westfield center [TS]

  ah i think a photo of this it's one of [TS]

  those things you see in front of the [TS]

  window where something is going to be [TS]

  built something you'd be interested in [TS]

  talking about it so you know where your [TS]

  block off the block off the store as its [TS]

  as it's being developed but instead of [TS]

  just saying like coming soon and coming [TS]

  soon [TS]

  casual corner right it's now it's a it's [TS]

  sort of a branding opportunity another [TS]

  yeah a newer branding opportunity so [TS]

  this goes across a whole bunch of [TS]

  storefront in front of you you know how [TS]

  big a Barnes & Noble is right yeah and [TS]

  so i guess and they've chosen a kind of [TS]

  gun gun metal gray battleship gray was [TS]

  very which is it indicates like [TS]

  sleekness and also forward forward pneus [TS]

  that was the color of my outie 5000 [TS]

  coming on so envious yeah and all and [TS]

  what it says I'd like if you don't mind [TS]

  I'd like you're reading of the paragraph [TS]

  but what it says is bespoke and in a [TS]

  very fancy looking sans-serif fonts [TS]

  bespoke with for some reason an [TS]

  underlying under the B&B spoke and then [TS]

  in italics there's a paragraph [TS]

  describing what bespoke is or will be [TS]

  would you mind sharing that with our [TS]

  listeners I i was wondering about why [TS]

  the underlying just one letter of [TS]

  bespoke and then and I feel like without [TS]

  the underline it's possible that you [TS]

  might look at that and say the spokie [TS]

  beast okay yeah right [TS]

  spokeo gorgeous bouquet I mean it's the [TS]

  best ok would have a little sante grab [TS]

  whatever the SRX on Teague over the e [TS]

  but but without with no at with no [TS]

  underlining your accent you could look [TS]

  at and say spoki right that's what if [TS]

  you were an okie from Muskogee would say [TS]

  the spokie was naturally ok and and but [TS]

  with the but the underlying under the B [TS]

  it makes you say be be you right you [TS]

  look at you can't be [TS]

  yeah and then what are you gonna do and [TS]

  usually if you're if you're if you're [TS]

  watching war games where you're watching [TS]

  some kind of eighties nineties computer [TS]

  thriller you would send think that [TS]

  that's a prompt sometimes i use the [TS]

  blinking underline indicate a problem [TS]

  why do you have a prompt under the first [TS]

  letter unless you are about to edit it [TS]

  right you were about to delete it right [TS]

  exactly [TS]

  change it to peace pokey yeah but then [TS]

  underneath now what what font is that [TS]

  the underneath written it's sort of an [TS]

  italic that looks kind of like it's a [TS]

  fancy Georgia yeah okay and it says [TS]

  nestled within the retail epicenter of [TS]

  San Francisco sits a dynamic new [TS]

  destination colon a community where [TS]

  digital innovators collide with the [TS]

  world's greatest brands Ivan and dash M [TS]

  dash for work and foreplay bomb and then [TS]

  under that there's a graphic and it's a [TS]

  sort of a flowchart right or what how [TS]

  would you describe [TS]

  it's three icons inside of circles on a [TS]

  horizontal axis and the three icon three [TS]

  circles are connected for no apparent [TS]

  reason by a line right so co-working and [TS]

  that's a what it's like he's on a pc [TS]

  with a mouse [TS]

  no I think that's a I think that that's [TS]

  a mac classic an apple mac classic color [TS]

  classic or maybe a lisa it could be i [TS]

  think its a Mac Alicia John in addition [TS]

  to co-working either any other kinds of [TS]

  things to do a bespoke soco working and [TS]

  then then align over to just a [TS]

  microphone an unplugged microphone about [TS]

  it with but we can alert so it's a mic [TS]

  that it's like one of those mics you get [TS]

  from radioshack that comes with a [TS]

  hardwired cord like Bob Pollin Mike yeah [TS]

  and it's and it says events events [TS]

  events and then another line over to [TS]

  some kind of a game controller that [TS]

  plays place [TS]

  yeah see I don't even play games and I [TS]

  can just tell from looking in that it's [TS]

  a it's a game with some kind its cord [TS]

  that connects to something that I don't [TS]

  think you would have had on most gaming [TS]

  systems in even the last three to five [TS]

  years [TS]

  it looks like an looks like some kind of [TS]

  Epsom printer but John yeah sure and [TS]

  whatever what is that indicates on tech [TS]

  demo is Emma so you got a co-working [TS]

  offense and tech demos co-working events [TS]

  and tech demos at bespoke absolutely [TS]

  the URL is at bespoke underscore SF that [TS]

  was a freebie for them [TS]

  yeah I'm sorry shit we should we should [TS]

  retro actively charge [TS]

  no I want people to go and look at this [TS]

  and scoff at it [TS]

  yeah I want I want them to I want them [TS]

  to say like why we're getting a lot of [TS]

  traffic today [TS]

  yeah that's where our numbers are really [TS]

  going up and it's just people around the [TS]

  world scoffing at them [TS]

  well don't think I didn't go um nothing [TS]

  about how i went and check out the tooth [TS]

  from bespoke SF um and I think it's [TS]

  pretty it's pretty inscrutable logitech [TS]

  most I don't know CA were shooting fish [TS]

  in a barrel but you know it's it's kind [TS]

  of hilarious that it used to be a barnes [TS]

  and noble thought about you like you [TS]

  know back in the lets say by the [TS]

  mid-nineties how about this when we got [TS]

  a barnes and noble at the tallahassee [TS]

  mall in circa [TS]

  nineteen ninety two or three whatever it [TS]

  was the barnes and noble is expanding [TS]

  really quickly [TS]

  that was the first starbucks i ever went [TS]

  to was a starbucks inside of a barnes [TS]

  and noble I mean that's how classy [TS]

  barnes and noble was Barnes & Noble [TS]

  alongside I guess borders the juggernaut [TS]

  you know what has been going on for a [TS]

  while but this was probably like 50,000 [TS]

  square feet of store and occasionally [TS]

  huge you don't remember that they did [TS]

  they were driving out all the elbow the [TS]

  little children's book stores on the [TS]

  upper west side [TS]

  I think sometimes they took over [TS]

  something like maybe it was like an old [TS]

  grocery store like that be like a pantry [TS]

  pride type situation when the moment [TS]

  refurbished you get a point and noble [TS]

  you can't go in there you can buy you [TS]

  can buy all kinds of value by playing [TS]

  cards you can get coffee you can get a [TS]

  Danish they have a giant periodical [TS]

  section of barnes and noble down our [TS]

  tanforan mall two stories including a [TS]

  giant toy section right and children's [TS]

  books and records they were someone to [TS]

  stand right there is not a single [TS]

  big-box bookstore in downtown San [TS]

  Francisco other thing is i would use to [TS]

  go into those places and I would I I [TS]

  didn't know what I didn't know that they [TS]

  weren't for me right they were not they [TS]

  were not built for me I would walk [TS]

  around and I would end up I will go [TS]

  upstairs i would go downstairs I would [TS]

  walk around walk around and eventually I [TS]

  would buy a paperback copy of Plato's [TS]

  Republic just to give myself something [TS]

  to do and then I would you know give [TS]

  that to a homeless guy because i feel [TS]

  that that is that that plate it starts [TS]

  the path to recovery starts with Plato [TS]

  and mashed potatoes but first I want to [TS]

  talk about a cave [TS]

  are you listening and their attention to [TS]

  get out until I would go away and I [TS]

  wouldn't go back or you know everyone [TS]

  for everyone so why would buy one of [TS]

  those artists models the little wood [TS]

  articulated men puts it on the tables a [TS]

  present for creative people who are [TS]

  being creative [TS]

  that's it on the end tables in the homes [TS]

  of interesting people i would buy one of [TS]

  those and then give it as a gift that's [TS]

  what I mean even I see I've always loved [TS]

  just spending two hours in a store like [TS]

  that but what I will say no matter who [TS]

  you are it's great for Christmas gifts [TS]

  because it is really sure if you don't [TS]

  care that much [TS]

  who you're buying for especially you can [TS]

  find something for anybody there [TS]

  listen the other day I i was on a [TS]

  website called Instagram a web site okay [TS]

  and I don't know if you are familiar [TS]

  with jet Jessica cowan lady who works [TS]

  for Squarespace our once and future [TS]

  sponsor who and she sent me and a [TS]

  message on Squarespace is our on [TS]

  Instagram for Instagram website saying [TS]

  there's a guy who is taking tintype [TS]

  photographs in your town today he's at [TS]

  itinerant tintype ER traveling the world [TS]

  with his giant camera doing real tintype [TS]

  photos and he and he's looking for [TS]

  people [TS]

  local talent he's looking for talent [TS]

  people to look old timey and so I went I [TS]

  so i contacted this guy was like I [TS]

  wanted type photograph and he was like [TS]

  come on down to seattle pioneer square [TS]

  and I got down there I expected him to [TS]

  be wearing a a bowler hat and a mustache [TS]

  but he was not he was wearing either and [TS]

  he was taking tintype photograph with [TS]

  this camera that he kind of built [TS]

  himself and he was using eat he was [TS]

  using an alcove in a space that as I [TS]

  looked around turned out to be one of [TS]

  these co-working spaces right yeah have [TS]

  you ever been to one of these let's say [TS]

  about co-working yeah it's a it's a [TS]

  co-working space it's like a floor of a [TS]

  building and people are they're doing [TS]

  stuff on laptops [TS]

  yeah and so and there's a woman there [TS]

  who represents the co-working place and [TS]

  she started and I was like tell me about [TS]

  your co-working space and she started [TS]

  giving me this meal and this co-working [TS]

  space had something there was some angle [TS]

  right where it was like where they were [TS]

  certainly telling me but I think also [TS]

  telling themselves that it was [TS]

  some aspect of their co-working space [TS]

  was in the public good [TS]

  there was a public-interest angle where [TS]

  they were nonprofits or when i see they [TS]

  were they were trying to trying to make [TS]

  the world a better place all doing their [TS]

  part there yet right but I I toward the [TS]

  space and it was full of people i mean [TS]

  every seat was taken and they were all [TS]

  people on their laptops and I looked at [TS]

  their laptops and they all appear to be [TS]

  using windows 95 and they were all I [TS]

  don't know didn't say I didn't see any [TS]

  public interest work it's all just [TS]

  seemed like people trying to polish [TS]

  their resumes or I'm not sure what kind [TS]

  of work was going on in there but i was [TS]

  astonished that in the middle of the [TS]

  afternoon that people would choose to [TS]

  pay to be in this environment and I came [TS]

  out of that I came out of that [TS]

  experience both with a tintype [TS]

  photograph of myself and also a new [TS]

  curiosity about this co-working movement [TS]

  that was my first exposure to it [TS]

  oh really but well I don't have I don't [TS]

  have I mean I don't work [TS]

  it's interact with people who work yeah [TS]

  it was just in the in the kind of I [TS]

  guess I want to see in the tech world [TS]

  it's something that's really taken off [TS]

  over the years where you know for for [TS]

  obvious economic reasons I mean let's [TS]

  look at what is it really [TS]

  it's like having an office combined with [TS]

  having roommates like you don't really [TS]

  need to go lease your own floor of an [TS]

  office you don't have to go through a [TS]

  leak and all that stuff [TS]

  all you really need is a desk somewhere [TS]

  there's a bunch of places but wouldn't [TS]

  you just go to a cafe I guess is my [TS]

  question and I think that's a very good [TS]

  question and that's that's why to jump [TS]

  to the cut to the chase to me that's not [TS]

  how I would ever work i would not get [TS]

  any work done in a place like that i [TS]

  mean you know to me having an office is [TS]

  good and bad because I place to put on [TS]

  my shit like that i like having all my [TS]

  shit that's good but even if you just [TS]

  bring a laptop I cannot imagine a more [TS]

  purpose built environment [TS]

  for distraction and unnecessary noise [TS]

  and movement just in my head like to [TS]

  meet the point of having a place to work [TS]

  in this is it again just goes to show [TS]

  how old I am is I I've had opportunities [TS]

  to go work at places in town where I've [TS]

  gotten you know offers from really nice [TS]

  places like a writing desk your twitter [TS]

  at one point I almost got a place at [TS]

  Twitter so this is great [TS]

  I'll go to south park every day before i [TS]

  got an office like five years ago six [TS]

  years ago when I think I saw like Jason [TS]

  Goldman there's like he's okay yeah we [TS]

  got such up here and I was like this is [TS]

  really nice but boys and four laps you [TS]

  know like 1,100 bucks a month or [TS]

  something you don't get it [TS]

  no it wasn't that much now wasn't that [TS]

  good but it was it was you know they're [TS]

  gonna come here break or something but [TS]

  anyway it would be really cool to work [TS]

  at a you know one side all these cool [TS]

  people but that to me people throwing a [TS]

  ball [TS]

  there's music going on a 2 up to a place [TS]

  they're all like you see me uniquely [TS]

  inappropriate for a large number of [TS]

  people to be doing something quiet in [TS]

  you notice that the I think there's [TS]

  actually a lot of the time I feel like [TS]

  arm i feel like if i were in an [TS]

  environment like that i would just it [TS]

  would be a personal challenge for me to [TS]

  try and distract everyone else as much [TS]

  as I could like I would just go from [TS]

  desk to desk and be like hey what are [TS]

  you working on [TS]

  so how long you been how long you been [TS]

  in Seattle and I would I just couldn't I [TS]

  wouldn't be there to work i would be [TS]

  there to socialize and to meet these [TS]

  people and and find the interesting [TS]

  things about them and and it just it if [TS]

  you if you're going to work i would [TS]

  think you would want to be in a in [TS]

  seclusion but then that's my mind that's [TS]

  the funny part is it's a kid's true both [TS]

  ways i would be equal online media equal [TS]

  parts but depending on the day i went on [TS]

  the one hand be probably pretty annoyed [TS]

  with how much movement activity and [TS]

  noise there was because that's what it [TS]

  is it's a bunch of people in a room [TS]

  doing stuff while on the other hand I [TS]

  could just also see myself walking up [TS]

  and stand by somebody's desk and talking [TS]

  to him for two hours so maybe the worst [TS]

  of both worlds [TS]

  I guess it works i guess it works for [TS]

  some people but I said I i'm with you i [TS]

  can see needing to get out of the house [TS]

  wanting to get out of the house but i'm [TS]

  not sure i understand how much more that [TS]

  offers then you know then [TS]

  then I cafe and I have friends who have [TS]

  tried to do podcasts inside a place like [TS]

  that [TS]

  Wow which is like you know trying to do [TS]

  like in the CNN NEWSROOM or something [TS]

  well do you were so I was thinking about [TS]

  this the other day when I was first [TS]

  starting on out in music in seattle the [TS]

  biggest challenge that as I perceived it [TS]

  at the time was to find a space like a [TS]

  practice like a shed that was the that [TS]

  was the the biggest the biggest obstacle [TS]

  and i had a friend named Rhys Lamb who [TS]

  was a painter and reese was really good [TS]

  at that he knew he knew all the people [TS]

  in the sort of up in underground seattle [TS]

  and i don't mean the where you go on the [TS]

  tour of underground seattle but like he [TS]

  knew all the people living in the in the [TS]

  holes and recent always had a place to [TS]

  paint because he every time you run into [TS]

  me be like oh yeah man i'm painting them [TS]

  in this garage down in the ne you know [TS]

  down in the central district i met a guy [TS]

  who really repairs old refrigerators or [TS]

  I met a guy that you know makes rubber [TS]

  bands and he's got this space in the [TS]

  corner of his plan that you'd go down [TS]

  there and it would be an uninsulated [TS]

  corner of a steel frame building and [TS]

  rhys would be in there painting and time [TS]

  and time again i would say hey you know [TS]

  Reese like can you think of any place in [TS]

  your network of spaces that would you [TS]

  know that i could convert it to a band [TS]

  practice base and he would get all [TS]

  suspicious and you're like well man I [TS]

  mean bands are so loud and you know and [TS]

  he was afraid that if he hooked me up [TS]

  with some space and I turn it into a [TS]

  band practice space it was just going to [TS]

  attract attention to the whole [TS]

  underground economy then somebody's [TS]

  gonna be like what's that making all [TS]

  that noise over there and then you like [TS]

  just a couple clicks out of a meth lab [TS]

  yeah there's not it's not good for the [TS]

  environment to attract attention rock [TS]

  band and then yeah then the cops come [TS]

  around and they're like we're just gonna [TS]

  start busting all these old buildings [TS]

  and then the rubber band guys out of [TS]

  work frigerator got a man it's all [TS]

  because of me that rubber band man is [TS]

  such a good song [TS]

  god that's a great song crazy wonderful [TS]

  but i but but then so then there was you [TS]

  know and they were always like shared [TS]

  band practice basis but but it was like [TS]

  he had to know somebody they were always [TS]

  full to overflowing I couldn't find a [TS]

  space and then my friend Peter took a [TS]

  job as a custodian at a theater company [TS]

  that was occupying an old funeral home [TS]

  Wow Peter was there custodian in [TS]

  exchange for them letting him live in [TS]

  one of the outbuildings which was a the [TS]

  garage where they kept the hearses and [TS]

  it was an onion uninsulated her sera JH [TS]

  well I understand this so he's got a [TS]

  place to do is stuff and a place to live [TS]

  mhm i got what can imagine being in your [TS]

  early twenties and coming into something [TS]

  like that [TS]

  well I can't imagine the eighties movie [TS]

  where you get to have an entire loft [TS]

  yourself for fifty dollars a month [TS]

  oh my i was i was standing right next to [TS]

  Peter when it happened I was like hey [TS]

  this is incredible you know let me help [TS]

  you fix this place up so Peter was [TS]

  pretty handy and we took the garage door [TS]

  off and we took it off we took all the [TS]

  hardware off the garage door and built [TS]

  it so that it was just a wall it still [TS]

  looked like a garage door but it was a [TS]

  wall it didn't open anymore [TS]

  that would have been my choice but that [TS]

  was Peters idea and then we cut a door [TS]

  in the side and we found one of those [TS]

  old sort of patchwork metal doors from [TS]

  an industrial you know it was kind of [TS]

  leaning against side of a building and [TS]

  yeah it looks like a refrigerator like [TS]

  decorated area door [TS]

  Yeah Yeah right we found one of those [TS]

  and and and and hung it in the side of [TS]

  this building and then we went in and [TS]

  got a bunch of futons and drilled holes [TS]

  in the futons and put bolts and washers [TS]

  and then we could hang the futons over [TS]

  the windows and we found a bunch of [TS]

  insulation somewhere and and borrow a [TS]

  ladder and got up and insulated this [TS]

  whole building and it was like this [TS]

  amazing space and i worked on it with [TS]

  Peter for several months making it into [TS]

  like the ultimate bachelor pad practice [TS]

  space and it was a huge garage found [TS]

  some couches some carpets he was living [TS]

  there and he was a he was kind of an a [TS]

  tidy guy he would wake up in the morning [TS]

  and make his bed and put some throw [TS]

  pillows on it so it looks like a couch [TS]

  I don't know what he thought he was he [TS]

  never entertained indignantly just take [TS]

  what he had he had a personal dignity [TS]

  that's right he was German and his [TS]

  parents had like eight brothers and [TS]

  sisters and he just he made his bed in [TS]

  the morning but so then he put a bit he [TS]

  had a band i had a band and we started [TS]

  practicing in this space and right away [TS]

  the relationship went started this hour [TS]

  now and Peter was like you know you know [TS]

  this is my house this is my home [TS]

  you guys are practicing in and leaving [TS]

  your chook to spit cans lying around and [TS]

  you're you know when you're your [TS]

  marijuana reefers and and I was like [TS]

  what do you mean this is your house like [TS]

  this is the this is the fantasy we've [TS]

  always had like it's a bit sup it's like [TS]

  a clubhouse [TS]

  yeah why would use ownership and [TS]

  something so cool that he's like not [TS]

  club is not your Clubhouse it's my [TS]

  Clubhouse [TS]

  I was like you're getting this place for [TS]

  free for like not even being a janitor [TS]

  over at the theatre company anyway it [TS]

  got very contentious and and and and [TS]

  reflecting back on it I realized that I [TS]

  was I was taken over i was taken over [TS]

  his his his private little space and so [TS]

  I went over to the theater company and I [TS]

  was like listen I'm not going to be your [TS]

  janitor but he got he got a couple [TS]

  outbuildings here so i got a couple [TS]

  additional outbuildings [TS]

  let me have one and A and they were like [TS]

  you know we do it we have this space [TS]

  over here that we were going to read to [TS]

  a guy who was a motorcycle repair guy [TS]

  but if you're a band if your artists [TS]

  like we're a theater company we are we [TS]

  are promised on helping people make art [TS]

  and so they gave me this cinder block [TS]

  garage that you know was moldy and [TS]

  covered with oil and I and my band [TS]

  having just helped Peter fix up his we [TS]

  spent three four months fixing up this [TS]

  garage and we actually took the garage [TS]

  door out and built a cinderblock wall [TS]

  just a lot by the Richard Hugo house [TS]

  yeah wow that's so cool so the theater [TS]

  company then sold itself to the Richard [TS]

  Hugo house and I i continued a [TS]

  relationship with them i was sort of [TS]

  grandfathered in and they were like we [TS]

  would much rather use that space to make [TS]

  literary arts but i suppose since you've [TS]

  been here and you did all this work you [TS]

  can continue to be a rock band there [TS]

  god this is like this is a different [TS]

  century yeah and it is still a rock band [TS]

  space to this day it was handed down [TS]

  from us to a series of bands at one [TS]

  point there's somebody will not [TS]

  thermalright somebody kind of super [TS]

  famous there for a while right [TS]

  yeah there were there were there were [TS]

  there were famous 'as there i think [TS]

  various bands that that went in and out [TS]

  of that space that we're all connected [TS]

  by sort of a family relationship to to [TS]

  me 20 years before and I don't need your [TS]

  bastard rock children [TS]

  yeah I don't know who's in there now but [TS]

  the Richard Hugo house just announced [TS]

  that they sold the entire quarter of a [TS]

  block all of the outbuildings in the [TS]

  funeral home and everything to some [TS]

  developers who are going to put in a [TS]

  tower condo tower all really it's all [TS]

  going to get all going to go away [TS]

  all the all the history all the blood [TS]

  and sweat and songs and marijuana [TS]

  reefers reefers & Peters Peters Peters [TS]

  throwing bullets Peters lost the youth [TS]

  and my lost youth and the the first [TS]

  performance ever of unsalted butter and [TS]

  it's all just going to get back hold [TS]

  into the basement of a of some kind of [TS]

  condo fucking tears and rain [TS]

  yeah that's right now I'm Sean well you [TS]

  know I guess good for Richard Hugo house [TS]

  I mean that their margins probably [TS]

  pretty thin they probably don't they [TS]

  probably don't get a lot of people [TS]

  pounding in there like that show me the [TS]

  trout [TS]

  well you know the story of the Richard [TS]

  you go house was thank you i don't know [TS]

  but I you know he's my second favorite [TS]

  American poet i do know that and and [TS]

  like all like a whole healthy boys i [TS]

  have a list well and like you know like [TS]

  all good American friends you and I both [TS]

  have shared with one another are our top [TS]

  four or five American poets but I [TS]

  respect you know weird is that weird [TS]

  it's something everybody that's [TS]

  absolutely not we show each other and [TS]

  then there you know it's not yeah you [TS]

  would like your friend or you're like am [TS]

  visiting seattle can we go by the [TS]

  literary arts center that celebrates the [TS]

  work of my second favorite American poet [TS]

  and i was like hey I happen to have some [TS]

  friends there like needed and let's go [TS]

  i'm curious but the Richard Hugo house [TS]

  was funded by some rich people some one [TS]

  of the you know the first generation of [TS]

  Microsoft and Amazon multi millionaires [TS]

  in this town back when they were [TS]

  millionaires already but the town was [TS]

  still pretty shabby and real estate was [TS]

  cheap [TS]

  right right uh it was talking about this [TS]

  i mean we can't assume everybody's heard [TS]

  every episode of the show I mean you [TS]

  know it sounds like a sinister in a [TS]

  similar way to san francisco obviously [TS]

  in its own way but what Seattle has in [TS]

  your lifetime seen some massive changes [TS]

  yeah yeah yeah yeah well and and not [TS]

  even in my lifetime I mean they're what [TS]

  is it makes it a tragedy is that [TS]

  the changes started after i was already [TS]

  aware of real estate right i mean i [TS]

  remember standing on the tragedy it's [TS]

  you didn't get in on it [TS]

  yeah and away I remember standing on [TS]

  your mommy and your mom did pretty well [TS]

  with that [TS]

  well no not really not considering what [TS]

  we could have done right i mean you [TS]

  could there were there was a time in [TS]

  nineteen ninety five or six when you [TS]

  could still buy a like a lot right [TS]

  undeveloped lot within 10 minutes of [TS]

  walking distance from downtown you can [TS]

  buy it a like a a quarter-acre abandoned [TS]

  lot for $20,000 don't and this you know [TS]

  and and they were kind of all over the [TS]

  place and the reason was that from [TS]

  nineteen that's like four or five months [TS]

  rent for and people who are new to San [TS]

  Francisco [TS]

  Yeah Yeah Yeah right and and and and [TS]

  nobody saw it coming [TS]

  even though i did see it but it was very [TS]

  hard to convince people because from [TS]

  1972 1995 that lot was never a lot [TS]

  didn't change in value and Robbie it [TS]

  probably was costly to maintain keep the [TS]

  insurance i'm clean up the needles [TS]

  yeah you got it was probably more more [TS]

  costs and benefits got you gotta pay the [TS]

  taxes [TS]

  yeah there's nothing else and so it's [TS]

  like oh well that was twenty thousand [TS]

  dollars and one across the street was [TS]

  twelve thousand dollars in that lot up [TS]

  there you know that whole like corner [TS]

  lot was twenty-four thousand dollars and [TS]

  450 thousand dollars you could have [TS]

  bought what would what would ultimately [TS]

  be 20 million dollars in real-estate now [TS]

  because they are the developers now are [TS]

  going through that neighborhood and [TS]

  tearing down three-story brick apartment [TS]

  buildings in order to build you know [TS]

  they're tearing down a [TS]

  five-million-dollar building in order to [TS]

  build a fifty-million-dollar old-growth [TS]

  the beams [TS]

  oh yeah they just goes right in the [TS]

  dumpster but and I did see it coming [TS]

  because I could i looked around and i [TS]

  was like well wait a minute [TS]

  um is that you you can buy a house and [TS]

  in the center of Seattle [TS]

  for $50,000 who [TS]

  and yet the world's richest man lives [TS]

  here and not only that but this is the [TS]

  only this this will one day soon be the [TS]

  last livable place I've been to Los [TS]

  Angeles I know what it I know what's [TS]

  going on down there you know that this [TS]

  was all evident 15 years ago but I [TS]

  didn't have any resources and I didn't [TS]

  have any I didn't have the Moxie you [TS]

  know and and and and you have it's the [TS]

  wisdom of retrospect I can look back now [TS]

  and say like I knew it then and I should [TS]

  have devoted all my energy to it but in [TS]

  fact i was trying to I was trying to [TS]

  write songs and being a band i didn't [TS]

  want to be a real estate developer if [TS]

  you're right you know if you but like [TS]

  you know sometimes sometimes you even if [TS]

  it's something in plain sight [TS]

  there's nothing that ever gets you to do [TS]

  something about it it's hard to explain [TS]

  what I've idolized i'm fond of saying [TS]

  it's difficult for me to try to explain [TS]

  to people why didn't do something [TS]

  Yeah Yeah Yeah right that's what the [TS]

  caricature he calls the trigger account [TS]

  think again he can't you can't prove a [TS]

  negative but anyway Richard Hugo house [TS]

  these people were the were newly minted [TS]

  millionaires and they went into Capitol [TS]

  Hill's ritzy neighborhood and there is a [TS]

  particular house right across the street [TS]

  from the Cornish College of the Arts [TS]

  that is a massive and beautiful gracious [TS]

  home but it's right on a busy street and [TS]

  it's one of those beautiful homes that [TS]

  when it was built and every once in a [TS]

  while a guy would would putter by in a [TS]

  one cylinder car pop up and go people [TS]

  you know it was like oh that's charming [TS]

  right we we have put our are big home on [TS]

  the main street because we're Marty [TS]

  McFly's family lived in 1955 line [TS]

  estates or whatever me but maybe you [TS]

  know because it made because the guy who [TS]

  was bringing the milk on the horse-drawn [TS]

  cart [TS]

  a that kind of like busyness of the [TS]

  street did not [TS]

  it didn't impact your enjoyment of your [TS]

  home right right the streetcar went by [TS]

  somebody wrote by on a on a giant [TS]

  bicycle a penny farthing or whatever but [TS]

  there was no like being on a busy street [TS]

  was not it was not disadvantageous and [TS]

  now there's this big beautiful gracious [TS]

  home but all day long is just round [TS]

  round round buses and cars and and it's [TS]

  just not it doesn't have it doesn't have [TS]

  enough seclusion right so there's a [TS]

  beautiful home but but but it's it's [TS]

  such a big pile of of luxurious finishes [TS]

  that even though it's on a busy street [TS]

  you couldn't afford to live there unless [TS]

  you were a rich person and if you were a [TS]

  rich person why would you want to live [TS]

  there so the Richard Hugo house people [TS]

  initially went to that neighborhood and [TS]

  they were like we're gonna buy this [TS]

  house and it made perfect sense it was [TS]

  like it was this fantastic place and big [TS]

  entry hall a staircase that you could [TS]

  take a team of horses up and I just [TS]

  screamed literary arts center and then [TS]

  it in an early example of sort of [TS]

  Seattle NIMBY the other the old rich [TS]

  people who lived in the in the gracious [TS]

  homes right around there were all like [TS]

  what we don't want but we're all these [TS]

  literary arts people going to park [TS]

  are you kidding we don't want to lose [TS]

  some kind of literary can't imagine a [TS]

  better neighbor that's going to invite [TS]

  people that wear feathers for jewelry [TS]

  that a literary arts you're gonna hear [TS]

  those pencils scratching and neighbor [TS]

  gave up together and kept the hugo house [TS]

  from being able to buy it they it wasn't [TS]

  just a grassroots campaign they actually [TS]

  went to the city and said this [TS]

  neighborhood is not zoned for this kind [TS]

  of of questionable commercial artistic [TS]

  use and so so they chase Richard you go [TS]

  out out and and that your house bought [TS]

  that funeral home kind of like it was [TS]

  pretty far down on there it was left [TS]

  their fourth choice or whatever [TS]

  by the time by the time they were able [TS]

  to get that place there like listen we [TS]

  just need to buy a place and I think if [TS]

  i recall correctly they they bought that [TS]

  entire lot and funeral home and [TS]

  everything for a million bucks and i'm [TS]

  sure i'm absolutely sure that it's it [TS]

  it's a ten-million-dollar piece of real [TS]

  estate now or more [TS]

  I know goodness $59 so they didn't do [TS]

  too badly but I still drive past that [TS]

  big beautiful home across from the [TS]

  Cornish College of the Arts and think it [TS]

  if this i mean one day this will be a [TS]

  literary arts center if I have my way [TS]

  when I am an old man i will come here [TS]

  and i will turn this into a literary [TS]

  arts center just despite the ghosts of [TS]

  those people because it's AI mean when [TS]

  that house was built someone had the [TS]

  someone recently probably wrote literary [TS]

  arts center in chalk on a beam it was [TS]

  meant for that so mad [TS]

  that's funny also because um you know [TS]

  you would want in a guy down but so much [TS]

  what he wrote about that some memorable [TS]

  arm he had a real eye for just all kinds [TS]

  of stuff and Pacific Northwest but one [TS]

  of the things that makes him a good poet [TS]

  I for a lot of different kinds of stuff [TS]

  what [TS]

  I mean you know he's famous you if you [TS]

  first became famous for his fish bones [TS]

  whatever but like the stuff is that I [TS]

  enjoy and remember the most is enough [TS]

  about like tumbledown Western towns just [TS]

  kind of and you know kind of analogies [TS]

  for life falling apart that you go and [TS]

  visit [TS]

  it's kind of funny though that like that [TS]

  to me is what he has to write a [TS]

  wonderful book on writing that i can [TS]

  highly recommend called the triggering [TS]

  town [TS]

  I like your love Richard Hugo is one of [TS]

  my favorite loves and there's so many [TS]

  things in my life I will talk about John [TS]

  because it bores other people and [TS]

  portable what I talk about what poets i [TS]

  like it makes me so excited you know [TS]

  he's really the rich man's by which i [TS]

  mean poor man's but a carver you know [TS]

  what I mean like he's that is uh yeah [TS]

  Capote the poet but but without so much [TS]

  rich man's Raymond Carver is the rich [TS]

  please the rich man's poor man's Raymond [TS]

  Carver huh [TS]

  that's my favorite people that's my [TS]

  favorite big blackout this episode of [TS]

  Roderick on the line is sponsored by a [TS]

  game called threes three's a tiny puzzle [TS]

  that grows on you [TS]

  you can play forever and it will always [TS]

  be in your pocket shot and I are big [TS]

  fans of threes [TS]

  you can learn more about 3 by searching [TS]

  your app store or by visiting threes [TS]

  game.com ok that's the part they wanted [TS]

  us to say but here's the real truth [TS]

  threes has ruined our lives [TS]

  John and I are mere husks of men at this [TS]

  time we play constantly are our lives [TS]

  upside down our children are starving [TS]

  John I want to get to the bottom of this [TS]

  diabolical game so we did a very long [TS]

  interview with Asher vollmer who's the [TS]

  twisted genius behind this menace [TS]

  here's an excerpt from the interview [TS]

  it will be fun to throw in something [TS]

  like a tip [TS]

  what do you think John yeah well a tip [TS]

  or even an argument like I've never had [TS]

  to make an argument your entire fucking [TS]

  life I feel like it we started talking [TS]

  about Three's we would we would develop [TS]

  a narrative pretty quickly around the [TS]

  idea that it is diabolical [TS]

  oh I like the end and that it is that [TS]

  you know that if it it will affect your [TS]

  self-esteem if you are not a strong [TS]

  person you know will discover the truth [TS]

  about three is basically so I understand [TS]

  what you're saying here we're definitely [TS]

  saying that we're going to help you by [TS]

  letting you know we're going to tear the [TS]

  veil away from this this monstrosity but [TS]

  it's also I think we've been getting you [TS]

  write a little bit like Lex Luthor or in [TS]

  superman movie where he's saying some [TS]

  people can read a candy wrapper and like [TS]

  I understand the secrets of the universe [TS]

  right exactly i feel like we need to [TS]

  unmask certain aspects of threes so that [TS]

  it isn't you know I wouldn't give threes [TS]

  say to a vulnerable person here the rest [TS]

  of the interview and find out ashes [TS]

  plans for harnessing your game play for [TS]

  free electric power please visit shown [TS]

  us for this episode at Roderick [TS]

  online.com you can download the full [TS]

  interview for free there [TS]

  listen to it a lot of fun and like we [TS]

  said you can learn how to grab your own [TS]

  copy of threes by visiting threes [TS]

  gamecom or by visiting the App Store on [TS]

  your mobile device and Real Talk guys [TS]

  thanks a million Asher for making our [TS]

  all-time favorite video game for taking [TS]

  the time to talk to us and for [TS]

  supporting Roderick on the line [TS]

  I was listening to buffalo Tom on the [TS]

  weigh-in today bar brains like and the [TS]

  Twitter yeah he's good [TS]

  I are buying a used to sound a lot like [TS]

  dinosaur [TS]

  well yeah and the replacements like all [TS]

  those bands yet from the late eighties [TS]

  in America all sounded like dinosaur jr [TS]

  and the replacements and end the [TS]

  recordings don't sound very good and [TS]

  there's there's a lot of kind of I guess [TS]

  jangle strumming but through over driven [TS]

  names [TS]

  yeah it's also weird how I mean even I [TS]

  think this kind of happened even with [TS]

  dump truck but there are others that [TS]

  cluster of bands from around that time [TS]

  were like they were these crusty post [TS]

  minneapolis not exactly hardcore bands [TS]

  but like my only was a pop-punk but you [TS]

  know what I mean [TS]

  bands like lemon heads and like soul [TS]

  asylum that were very I think very much [TS]

  had their roots I'm not to disparage but [TS]

  very much had their roots the book pets [TS]

  to junior the book pens [TS]

  yeah but me it's funny you go back and [TS]

  listen lemonheads back when the other [TS]

  guy wrote songs too [TS]

  they sound a lot like mr. do abs and [TS]

  obviously soul asylum stuff before like [TS]

  hang time sounds so much like the [TS]

  replacements it's fun i'm just another [TS]

  delights yellow kind of secret record [TS]

  and who's the who's the guy with the [TS]

  frosted hair you know the guys that [TS]

  became really popular window metric no [TS]

  home no come on and nobody [TS]

  yeah the group training never coming [TS]

  back now that's all right now to get a [TS]

  google dolls dolls dolls used to sound [TS]

  even more like they send a lot like what [TS]

  is it finding all of those bands that [TS]

  you can go back and listen like they're [TS]

  late eighties output and I state my hang [TS]

  time it's glossy but it's a good album [TS]

  it's like replacements meets cheap trick [TS]

  is great but then those I but i couldn't [TS]

  i never got into the goo goo dolls i [TS]

  could never get anybody like it'sit's [TS]

  what's funny in retrospect because if [TS]

  you do go back and listen to those [TS]

  records you so clearly here they going [TS]

  oh my god i really want to I mean it [TS]

  seems like kind of me in rem at one time [TS]

  like oh my gosh I would love to recreate [TS]

  this certain sound [TS]

  and it's funny because then they'd all [TS]

  like to a band got famous for some [TS]

  generally power ballad or six so you got [TS]

  the runaway train [TS]

  I'm gonna take these wool pants off [TS]

  excuse me don't know please go ahead i'm [TS]

  talking talking we're taking my so hot [TS]

  who [TS]

  so you got that in the lemonheads they [TS]

  started to kind of turn it down you know [TS]

  starting with the it's a shame about ray [TS]

  stuff that's right then they got all I [TS]

  think he actually did win a writer like [TS]

  everybody now was she got there you got [TS]

  done never did I never dated Buffalo Tom [TS]

  they had the headlight song that was [TS]

  kind of a power ballad you do you [TS]

  remember i remember a early nineties all [TS]

  the way after grunge had already a [TS]

  crested Paul Westerberg still was voted [TS]

  America's number one songwriter in some [TS]

  Rolling Stone pole and and I remember [TS]

  you know what the Academy Awards there [TS]

  John that's getting better 17 really [TS]

  felt like Tim Conway getting an Emmy [TS]

  water appearance on 31 if it's a very [TS]

  little left my book at matts go really [TS]

  really that's better than satisfied i'm [TS]

  telling you everything is that REM i I [TS]

  don't know what I don't know whether it [TS]

  is just that I certainly did you drink [TS]

  the kool-aid and then that's the [TS]

  kool-aid that you drank drank the [TS]

  kool-aid that was given in your time I [TS]

  think that's right but a butt like [TS]

  monster was the first REM Malcolm you [TS]

  heard we're gonna have some very awkward [TS]

  country yeah I guess that's true but [TS]

  like the first three REM records are [TS]

  here [TS]

  I you know they are absolutely [TS]

  bulletproof and and there's not a single [TS]

  even the wrong notes are right and yet I [TS]

  you know put on I'll put on the [TS]

  replacements and I know I know I've [TS]

  heard it all a thousand times and I'm [TS]

  and I saw them back in the day and i [TS]

  have sat on i have sat on a dirty couch [TS]

  with two other guys in horn-rimmed [TS]

  glasses and uh and and baseball hats [TS]

  from feed and seed companies and we have [TS]

  argued about this for 25 years I've been [TS]

  arguing about this but I put on those [TS]

  replacements record just go there [TS]

  really yeah well I i got a thought on [TS]

  that I I have a theory on why that would [TS]

  because I sometimes think i'll take what [TS]

  i think this is the most [TS]

  oh I hope this is the most radical thing [TS]

  I say today is that I i think i think [TS]

  that [TS]

  Let It Be is a way better finished [TS]

  product then Tim I think the production [TS]

  on tim is incredibly dated my even Jim [TS]

  Dickinson stuff on pleased to meet me [TS]

  I mean my god i'm not gonna bring up the [TS]

  gated problem but there's a lot of gated [TS]

  reverb on there that makes it sound like [TS]

  they're playing in half a toilet with [TS]

  the lip balm but what I mean there is [TS]

  not there is no worse record in terms of [TS]

  production then I against I Bad Brains [TS]

  really [TS]

  and yet what I this allows any records [TS]

  that like i said is misty records with [TS]

  yeah that's that spot guy ruined a lot [TS]

  of really good albums you really did and [TS]

  and and i mean i think that is a [TS]

  fantastic album i can hear it i can [TS]

  listen to it and love it through the [TS]

  production [TS]

  yeah i do not care different you might [TS]

  be remembering right it's pretty River [TS]

  be oh my god who knows it sounds like [TS]

  they put it sounds like they put a [TS]

  microphone down a manhole cover and the [TS]

  band was playing in a truck that was [TS]

  driving by the rich language truck [TS]

  there's no that they were never there [TS]

  playing a like a ok i'm sure that's bad [TS]

  breaking like not it's just sounds [TS]

  terrible and and when you listen to you [TS]

  can't help but say like oh god if you [TS]

  could just have also been recording this [TS]

  record when this record was recorded [TS]

  like if there was another guy there who [TS]

  was actually recorded back to your [TS]

  theory about being a producer is more [TS]

  than standing behind the faders it's [TS]

  having editorial voice to make sure that [TS]

  you got the skills to make it sound good [TS]

  and then you make sure it sounds good [TS]

  yeah right i mean you just I mean I'm [TS]

  sure that recording a band was really [TS]

  difficult and just personality-wise like [TS]

  HR came in and you know and just started [TS]

  calling you not hear whatever it was or [TS]

  a Jew or whatever it was is because his [TS]

  trip was that our but but you know my [TS]

  god that those performances that moment [TS]

  in time right you can't go back and read [TS]

  course that record because nobody could [TS]

  do it nobody could play that record now [TS]

  it was they had they were they had they [TS]

  were touched by angels right but you're [TS]

  saying you're saying that as a new [TS]

  brother replacements hasn't moved you as [TS]

  much as it's not a lot of people I [TS]

  songwriting i mean the the sounds of [TS]

  those records not withstand the song you [TS]

  don't like the songwriting I'd it's not [TS]

  that I don't like it I just go like yeah [TS]

  this is for other people this is for [TS]

  guys in feed and seed hats or this is [TS]

  for the goo goo dolls uh this one this [TS]

  is the you know like I felt that way [TS]

  about Dylan the first time I heard him [TS]

  but then I grew to understand and love [TS]

  Dylan and Dylan moves me now but I've [TS]

  gone back to the replacements well a [TS]

  hundred times and I always just come out [TS]

  of it feeling like yeah those were the [TS]

  guys that lived in the house across the [TS]

  street from the house that I lived in [TS]

  and we were friendly but not friends [TS]

  mmm yeah I mean I i can't i can't argue [TS]

  with that I mean you know at the time [TS]

  that something becomes a sensation [TS]

  whether it's any of these bands are my [TS]

  other favorite bands that i learned [TS]

  about because they became sensations you [TS]

  know a lot of it has to do with the time [TS]

  and the time in the timing and some of [TS]

  that stuff does age better than others [TS]

  some of it was never really that great [TS]

  to begin with and Buffalo tom is an [TS]

  example of a band that i saw in 1990-91 [TS]

  and the show just blew me away [TS]

  and so I I can't hear a bad word about [TS]

  him you know what I mean like I love [TS]

  i'll always love them because I remember [TS]

  the feeling of being at their show and [TS]

  feeling like this is doable like this is [TS]

  doable [TS]

  these guys are doing this and it's and I [TS]

  could do this this is doable and this is [TS]

  amazing in this show [TS]

  there are a lot of people at the show [TS]

  and they're all it was that first time [TS]

  because i always going to punk shows [TS]

  right right [TS]

  those were the only shows that you went [TS]

  to like hard hard-core show is where a [TS]

  lot of it was about the mechanics and [TS]

  volume [TS]

  yeah right i mean i couldn't afford to [TS]

  go see the to the cure is our ship right [TS]

  I wasn't going to go to those shows i [TS]

  was going to the show the five-dollar [TS]

  show at the rec center of the three [TS]

  dollar show direction [TS]

  and those bands were all hardcore bands [TS]

  and and so I would be at the show and I [TS]

  would look around and everybody was [TS]

  rocking their there punk thing and I [TS]

  loved I loved to Slamdance it was one of [TS]

  my favorite things to do but i was i did [TS]

  not walk out of that show and feel like [TS]

  you know what I'm gonna shave my head [TS]

  and I'm gonna start you know I'm gonna [TS]

  go vegan and i'm going to start like [TS]

  living and working at a soup kitchen [TS]

  like i did not i was not transformed [TS]

  into right now I know but at buffalo Tom [TS]

  show i looked around and i was like wow [TS]

  like everybody here is my age and [TS]

  they're all wearing carhartt jackets and [TS]

  there are there girls here and most of [TS]

  these guys are wearing glasses like [TS]

  these are my people [TS]

  it was it was really it was really kind [TS]

  of uh it was afraid was freaky [TS]

  well yeah yeah and now you're making me [TS]

  think because that was that some of the [TS]

  early shows i went to and it was just [TS]

  their electric I mean just so such a [TS]

  adrenaline shot to go to a show like [TS]

  that but what's funny is like sometimes [TS]

  I would end up seeing bad thing [TS]

  especially bands that were opening for [TS]

  somebody else that I had heard the name [TS]

  of it might be a little bit familiar [TS]

  with but bands were like that some of [TS]

  the bands that really ended up sticking [TS]

  with me like yo tengo and steelies and [TS]

  these bands were you go and like if you [TS]

  just heard their record first you might [TS]

  you might not get it but we're girls are [TS]

  killed big example of all man they were [TS]

  when they were good they were real [TS]

  glossy but they were they were amazing [TS]

  they were fun and funny but like yeah [TS]

  but I mean you'll attend go to me like I [TS]

  think there's something is fantastic i [TS]

  think the evolution of them over time is [TS]

  great i think they seem like interesting [TS]

  people or you know again with the [TS]

  feelies the Phillies are like as close [TS]

  as I'll ever get to something like the [TS]

  Grateful Dead like where you go and i'm [TS]

  justin intently watching the way this [TS]

  song is unfolding because it's it is it [TS]

  is very rock and roll you know but it's [TS]

  just very very intense but it's also [TS]

  kind of nerdy like yo tengo that's if [TS]

  there's something basically nerdy about [TS]

  it but it just happens to rock so called [TS]

  me that night [TS]

  and then that leads me down the rabbit [TS]

  hole of going and looking for all the [TS]

  records from those guys that's then that [TS]

  stuff that is really like you Buffalo [TS]

  tom [TS]

  tom [TS]

  stuff that really stuck with me and i [TS]

  don't i don't think it's defensible I [TS]

  don't think you can I don't think you [TS]

  could stand on a on a on a on a [TS]

  overturned create outside of hyde park [TS]

  and say I like Buffalo Tom and don't [TS]

  like the replacements like I don't think [TS]

  that that is artistically defensive when [TS]

  people use your time i'm i'm gonna get a [TS]

  ticket to London and I maybe i'm going [TS]

  to make that case you didn't get a [TS]

  moment of your time please gather around [TS]

  gather around [TS]

  I know John Buffalo Tom but it but I [TS]

  don't care for the replacement soap [TS]

  watch once I driver behind you but but [TS]

  there it is [TS]

  you know what I made through the coffee [TS]

  cup of pee at you don't follow budget i [TS]

  take your p you that [TS]

  mmm yeah yeah even listening music the [TS]

  same way anymore though John it's just [TS]

  not the same anymore [TS]

  yeah I guess I don't we came from the [TS]

  actions guess I don't care I don't care [TS]

  I was listening I was listening to the [TS]

  radio and they were playing some old [TS]

  music by which i mean music from my [TS]

  youth like you know Punk and grunge and [TS]

  i was struck again by how bad [TS]

  most of it was and I realized that [TS]

  there's you couldn't you could not sit a [TS]

  young person down and explain what it [TS]

  meant you know you couldn't you couldn't [TS]

  sit them down and say like it used to be [TS]

  hard to hear music [TS]

  it used to be hard to even find it right [TS]

  yeah you first you had to get the [TS]

  rosetta stone that tells you which bands [TS]

  to even know the name of then you had to [TS]

  find out like what their music was like [TS]

  you had to read extensive reviews [TS]

  there's like five steps before you ever [TS]

  even went and spent your fucking money [TS]

  on it for this thing and not that thing [TS]

  but 22 to be important to be 22 years [TS]

  old in it in my case and go to a rock [TS]

  show [TS]

  where it was your first exposure to the [TS]

  audience to an audience that looked like [TS]

  you who like kind of first time ever [TS]

  right because the more i think about it [TS]

  like I'd been to heavy metal stadium [TS]

  concerts and I'd been to a thousand a [TS]

  punk rock shows in youth Center's but I [TS]

  had never been to a show in a club where [TS]

  the where the other people where the [TS]

  audience had taken some college classes [TS]

  because those bands didn't come to [TS]

  Anchorage right re i'm never played in [TS]

  Anchorage when I was growing up and and [TS]

  that and to be 22 years old and have it [TS]

  be the first time that you ever were [TS]

  standing in a room where you were like I [TS]

  believe that this room of people is a [TS]

  mirror i am seeing myself for the first [TS]

  time [TS]

  how would you explain that to someone [TS]

  who was 22 years old now right [TS]

  I'm because presumably they have [TS]

  certainly bit there they are aware that [TS]

  there are rooms full of people who [TS]

  resemble them even if they've never been [TS]

  in one was designing a lot fewer things [TS]

  that are just strictly speaking a black [TS]

  box there are a lot fewer things where [TS]

  you actually have no idea what this is [TS]

  gonna be like right or it's just not [TS]

  possible to find out what it's going to [TS]

  be like until you do it until you do it [TS]

  right you could not you i could not have [TS]

  had an advanced I guess somebody I guess [TS]

  somebody could have said like you should [TS]

  go to this show because you seem like [TS]

  you would be a fan of them right [TS]

  that would be the closest would be the [TS]

  closest approximation of like here's [TS]

  where you belong and it turned out I [TS]

  didn't belong there either right [TS]

  I walked around and I was like hi hi [TS]

  nice to meet you high and everybody was [TS]

  like you know we don't really just walk [TS]

  up and say hi to each other that's kind [TS]

  of the way this works [TS]

  that's not how we do it I was like oh [TS]

  right right okay okay mm yeah [TS]

  I was thinking about that the other day [TS]

  I was walking down the street and I'm i [TS]

  was taught I don't know about you but I [TS]

  was taught that when you're walking down [TS]

  the street you make eye contact with [TS]

  people and and nod and smile like you [TS]

  make eye contact with people that you [TS]

  pass on the street have we talked about [TS]

  this now and you're worrying a little [TS]

  bit and now I where we talked about John [TS]

  get to be an hour [TS]

  ok that's right that's right don't move [TS]

  bespoke oh got out of there well saved [TS]