Ep. 123: "Your Mom Doesn't Work Here"

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0:00:19[Music]

0:00:24hello I John I'm Merlin how's it going

0:00:29oh it's going well how are you going I'm

0:00:32doing extremely well happy anniversary

0:00:36oh really mm-hmm do we have an

0:00:38anniversary

0:00:39yeah every year and there was this week

0:00:42three years ago we started doing this I

0:00:45don't really have anything special to

0:00:46say about that i just wanna make sure I

0:00:47didn't let the day go by

0:00:48wow I don't know if you three years ago

0:00:51thought that we would still be doing

0:00:52this three years from now i don't know

0:00:54what I thought three years ago i've

0:00:56liked that too

0:00:59I'm not gonna like the ocean just ways

0:01:01wasn't at the Clinton administration I

0:01:04think so it might have been

0:01:05yeah yeah you have some listeners that

0:01:09weren't even born during the Clinton

0:01:11administration that's not true is it

0:01:14true true i don't know i do this thing I

0:01:17just drop a decade sometimes you know

0:01:20about to drop a kid on a fool

0:01:23yeah we're all going I can't believe

0:01:25it's 20 years since ronald reagan was

0:01:28president go away minutes

0:01:30I just should be as I was coming down

0:01:33here i just did the thing where I was

0:01:35driving along and I just drove in the

0:01:39wrong direction or I don't go down the

0:01:43wrong way towards your office studio or

0:01:46either in the wrong way

0:01:47no no the wrong the wrong way toward

0:01:50where I was going I was just thinking

0:01:51you know what I was thinking about I was

0:01:52thinking about young black Republicans

0:01:54and that haha the subject classic Merlin

0:01:59grown through that i only got you

0:02:02thinking it returned and I did instead

0:02:04of right yeah I went I went the wrong

0:02:06way and then I was like where am I you

0:02:08know I got to an intersection was like

0:02:09which way do I go from here

0:02:11the answer was no way that is

0:02:13interactive and teaching what happens

0:02:15when you think about politics

0:02:16well it might be it might be true that I

0:02:19should specifically not think about

0:02:20young black Republicans because it's a

0:02:23because it's kind of like ass like a

0:02:25smoke fog that's not the log cabin

0:02:27republicans is it

0:02:28no those are the young gay Republicans

0:02:30or not even young anymore

0:02:32lot of them have matured into the

0:02:34middle-aged gay Republican but there

0:02:35must be some young gay black Republicans

0:02:37imagine you could get more tail than

0:02:38Sinatra i know for a fact there are I I

0:02:42made it up I made it a policy to

0:02:43investigate the culture of young black

0:02:46Republicans and I was fairly amazed at

0:02:48what I found really yeah haha you have

0:02:56the most expressive voice it's like it's

0:02:59like having an expressive face but you

0:03:01can communicate such subtlety with a

0:03:04hole with only a couple of syllables

0:03:07haha i'm gonna cover that and so I'll

0:03:12ride along but you drop the studio right

0:03:14nice when today is the first day of the

0:03:18seattle seahawks football-playing team

0:03:22i'll go hawks and they are going to play

0:03:24the green bay packers and so everyone is

0:03:28very excited that follows that kind of

0:03:31sport and you can feel it in the

0:03:34neighborhood already there's a guy in

0:03:35there's a guy standing with the with the

0:03:37with an orange flag in front of the

0:03:40parking lot where i normally park and he

0:03:43has a sign that says parking fifty

0:03:45dollars

0:03:47wow just parking parking fifty dollars

0:03:51and the game doesn't start for seven

0:03:55hours

0:03:56Wow and he's out there already selling

0:03:58parking for fifty dollars and so when I

0:04:00got into my parking lot so I just like

0:04:02drove by man waved and he was like uh I

0:04:04was like yeah yeah I've got a parking

0:04:06spot i get back in there and there's a

0:04:09bus a full-on like a rockstar bus with

0:04:15vancouver plates already parked in the

0:04:19parking lot taking up

0:04:20however many at eight spots and the bus

0:04:24is full of canadians who are who are

0:04:28tailgating the seahawks game and they're

0:04:31in there drinking already it's ten

0:04:32o'clock in the morning

0:04:33wow yeah so that that is just a

0:04:38harbinger of of the day to come here

0:04:41we've had a big dust up here because the

0:04:46our football team is called the 49ers

0:04:48and the races

0:04:50yeah I know I know it's it's you know

0:04:53all 49ers love gold huh

0:04:56now i know right what about the people

0:04:57became in 54 in 48 yeah right where

0:05:00their parade was their stadium i'll tell

0:05:02you where the stadium is used to be at

0:05:03Candlestick Park which is you know

0:05:05already kind of on the the rim of San

0:05:07Francisco they built a new state in the

0:05:09levi's stadium has been built in santa

0:05:12clara what now I know pretty much

0:05:15everything you stand for something on

0:05:16the peninsula so you don't need to keep

0:05:18track but basically long story short

0:05:20ar-ar-ar towns football organization now

0:05:24has the distinction of having the

0:05:27stadium that is farthest from its actual

0:05:29town of anybody in the NFL really did

0:05:35yeah right i mean i'm not a football is

0:05:37football day like excluding Silicon

0:05:39Valley traffic like it's gonna take an

0:05:40hour to drive there isn't that isn't

0:05:43that crazy and still the San Francisco

0:05:4449ers they built a whole big stadium

0:05:46it's crazy i read a rundown I mean you

0:05:48got you go to sports gaming things

0:05:50sometimes some you know it's gotten

0:05:52pretty costly you might you might

0:05:53football you might spend like two

0:05:55hundred dollars on a ticket yes that's

0:05:58is that real is that really true

0:05:59well yeah because you know that's the

0:06:02whole game of professional sports right

0:06:04uh aside from the game of actually

0:06:06playing the game the game is to is to

0:06:10figure out a way to get public money to

0:06:14build a giant sports stadium which then

0:06:17the majority of his devoted exclusively

0:06:20to private wealth and if you spin that

0:06:25if you spin it right you can convince

0:06:29the municipalities and the people that

0:06:32having the sports team that injects a

0:06:35lot of money into the economy

0:06:38and it is somehow it's a public good and

0:06:41right having it having a good sports

0:06:43team is like a promotes the city in all

0:06:47these you know these confusing ways that

0:06:50can't really be quantified and then you

0:06:53then you set aside whole levels of the

0:06:57stadium for multi multi million dollar

0:07:00private boxes and with a baseball team

0:07:06my understanding of how this works the

0:07:09baseball team place 200k play 650 games

0:07:12here 651 dave was not including the suit

0:07:16the the superbowl I think it has five

0:07:18games a year in football season

0:07:20yeah exactly standing amortize it you

0:07:23got it that's right way and yet you

0:07:24gotta charge big big big dollar so for

0:07:26instance i have been to probably

0:07:29conservatively 6,000 Mariners games

0:07:33understand these are just step on um but

0:07:37I have been a sense they tore the

0:07:39kingdom down and built the and built the

0:07:44but the steel taco that replaced it

0:07:47I have been 20 Seahawks games because

0:07:51you know who's gonna I mean I'll throw

0:07:52ten dollars and mariners game go sit in

0:07:54the stands get a hot dog yeah cares but

0:07:58two hundred dollars to go to go sit in a

0:08:00football stadium no thanks

0:08:01yeah you know it's I don't have a super

0:08:04strong opinion about it that's backed up

0:08:06by how little i've actually chosen to

0:08:07learn about this but i dunno it's

0:08:09dispiriting its way I like I live in a

0:08:12part of town where there are uh matters

0:08:15like a lot of like quick working-class

0:08:17people who lived in San Francisco a long

0:08:19time and you know they'll wear the the

0:08:22several 49ers hat and 14 and undershirt

0:08:26and the 49ers jacket and they're all

0:08:27super into it

0:08:28socks 49er Sox yeah but it's just that

0:08:30same little needy when you see people

0:08:32with multiple articles of sports

0:08:33clothing

0:08:34it's like this guy's whose Twitter

0:08:36picture is then with a girl like proven

0:08:38something you know I knew a guy and

0:08:41hunger never seemed weird I which 1i

0:08:44don't you the guy right

0:08:45haha i know a guy and hungry who is the

0:08:48world's biggest Ramones

0:08:50in and he was one of these guys that if

0:08:53you ask him a question the answer was

0:08:55the Ramones and it didn't matter what

0:08:57did matter what the question always

0:08:58bring it back to the ramones guy its

0:09:01that's it that's it that's it scanning

0:09:02the Ramones The Ramones you always bring

0:09:04back to the remote there's an anecdote

0:09:06here somewhere where he mentions like

0:09:08Tommy Robin yeah you don't you're gonna

0:09:10hear about the ramones one way or

0:09:11another if you talk to this guy for more

0:09:13than a few minutes and he's you know

0:09:16he's a smart guy he's an interesting guy

0:09:18he's lit LED an interesting life but he

0:09:21decided that the the Ramones were the

0:09:24thing that he was going to be the expert

0:09:25on or the not the expert but like The

0:09:27Ramones were going to be his church and

0:09:30I and he gave me a lot of insight into

0:09:33sports fans because it's like yeah if

0:09:35you choose the 49ers and that's your

0:09:38church and all year long you're just you

0:09:41know you just praying at the altar the

0:09:4349ers it takes care of a lot of other

0:09:45conversational topics that you might

0:09:47have to think about you can just sort of

0:09:50knots need you don't have to occupy

0:09:52yourself with those questions because

0:09:54you can always bring it back to the

0:09:5549ers now I think I think you're totally

0:09:58right and that's certainly true that's

0:10:00an interesting topic there's a lot of

0:10:01things like that but you know there was

0:10:03a time even before candlestick when they

0:10:06just played at kezar and I think he's

0:10:07probably seen keys are so i can write by

0:10:09the Panhandle is this you have seen in a

0:10:11dirty harry movie it's a it's a it's a

0:10:13little stadium

0:10:14it looks like it looks like a high

0:10:16school stadium that they're getting

0:10:17ready to replace but I mean it really

0:10:20you read these people's anecdotes and

0:10:21it's so sweet i mean i get caii kid

0:10:24about the sports but I understand when

0:10:25people talk about sports they're often

0:10:27actually talking about family that's

0:10:28important always remember when you make

0:10:30fun of sports because you're really

0:10:31talking about really know how watching

0:10:33games and going to games with your

0:10:35family you know throw a football around

0:10:37the parking lot before a game and in

0:10:39this case being out there was there was

0:10:40a time when Morgan Freeman mode it was

0:10:43time when a man can take his children to

0:10:45a game and have it not caustic and my

0:10:47mother house but you go there you just

0:10:50go to kezar as a few bucks to get in you

0:10:52can just kind of wandering it was like a

0:10:54whole production like going to gain

0:10:55today sounds like something where you

0:10:57know you gotta plan a lot of stuff

0:10:59no and then it's like the beers or nine

0:11:01dollars for a regular-sized beer so

0:11:03everybody's got drunk in the parking lot

0:11:04before they go in I think we're seeing

0:11:07this culture wide as a side effect of

0:11:11the breakdown of you know the breakdown

0:11:15of the above the big monolithic cultural

0:11:19apparatus right let's save this one can

0:11:23I just it's our anniversary I thought

0:11:27maybe we could talk about something that

0:11:30we can put out and now we're know what I

0:11:34mean 11 and i got a fear a little bit

0:11:36but I knew this episode of rock on the

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0:12:06Portland John I've you square space for

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0:12:37for sporting Roderick on the line we

0:12:39could not do without you know that the

0:12:43churches are gone for paid my fee ism is

0:12:47you know is this is not doesn't have the

0:12:49effect on the culture that it used to

0:12:52we don't we don't follow the three big

0:12:54networks anymore you know journalism is

0:12:57balkanized everybody's got their iphone

0:12:59nobody reads books

0:13:01yeah but only for us but there's a

0:13:04problem

0:13:07we don't trust the government uh huh is

0:13:10an app developers but but what if what

0:13:15if what happens is that humanity revert

0:13:18to its original its original project

0:13:22which is is to organize itself according

0:13:24two clans and tribes right and I no

0:13:28intercourse in self-destruction that's

0:13:29why we're here

0:13:30that's exactly right and and that but

0:13:32everybody you know everybody that the

0:13:34internet is beautiful for this everybody

0:13:35grabs onto their their their tribal

0:13:39identifier 'he's right and then they're

0:13:40bronies are there juggalos or you know

0:13:43the one guy that's both the brownie and

0:13:47drop below the Berlitz the nose Regulus

0:13:51and then and then it's just it's a mad

0:13:55dash for people to figure out how to

0:13:58profit from that tribalism you know to

0:14:01print up the printed t-shirts at a quick

0:14:05before the tribe morphs and sell as many

0:14:08of them as you can

0:14:09who you know and you're walking around

0:14:11town like in seattle the the Sonics I

0:14:15guess the Sonics aren't team anymore but

0:14:17the what are they called that the the

0:14:19sockers Seattle soccers the Seattle so

0:14:23the sockers they have because it had the

0:14:25the in the 1700 thriving soccer industry

0:14:29in the Pacific Northwest and and now

0:14:31we're going we're going back to our

0:14:32original sacher roots here and you see

0:14:35people walking around all year long in

0:14:37this in this soccer costume which which

0:14:42is the color I can't describe you have

0:14:44to see the Seattle soccer in fact that

0:14:46more about the Seattle soccers the

0:14:48Seattle soccer's their colors are like

0:14:51colors that you wouldn't you wouldn't

0:14:54make it

0:14:54toddlers tollway out of these colors

0:14:57because you would be afraid of the

0:14:59effect that it would have on the kiddo

0:15:01growing season is it green and like

0:15:04cerulean sort of blue

0:15:06yeah it's like puce grouping and

0:15:09cerulean blue it's that they are there

0:15:11like at some time and I test right you

0:15:14would you if you made if you made a few

0:15:16made children's blocks out of this you

0:15:18would feel like it was some

0:15:20it was some sort of seventies a like

0:15:24Waldorf School a great experience but

0:15:27here's a good sign John is that doesn't

0:15:29look very flattering on the players so i

0:15:31can only imagine what it looks like on

0:15:33the fans of the sockers and that's

0:15:35what's so extraordinary like they have

0:15:37embraced the fans have embraced these

0:15:39colors and you see them all over the

0:15:40town and they are colors that not only

0:15:43do not appear in nature but had never

0:15:45really appeared in fashion before right

0:15:47throughout the whole history of threat

0:15:49from i observed history of fashion

0:15:53there was never a time that color of

0:15:55green ever was used

0:15:57looks like pond scum and a pond at

0:16:00disneyland so so they've so they've that

0:16:04you know in a way they've done a

0:16:05tremendous job of of a branding their

0:16:10team because people haven't rejected the

0:16:12color they've embraced it and you could

0:16:14see a guy a mile and a half away and

0:16:17know that he's the sounders now i see

0:16:18yeah that's true that's true no no one

0:16:20else oh you wouldn't use that color for

0:16:22anything else that they they found the

0:16:25one thing that they could you know

0:16:27because it was safety orange or whenever

0:16:29you just feel like the guy was like if

0:16:31you're a fan patient you're a fan of

0:16:33patriots you were like red white and

0:16:35blue right is that right right when I

0:16:37hold my in-laws my family they vary in

0:16:40the Patriots but that's not as

0:16:42distinctive yellow around my high school

0:16:44we had green we had bright green and

0:16:46bright yellow and was incredibly

0:16:48unflattering my high school was powder

0:16:51blue red white and blue but the blue was

0:16:54powder blue and it's still kind of

0:16:57haunts me that is how flattering because

0:17:00our main opponents were black and orange

0:17:03and they just looked so badass black and

0:17:08orange just like yeah Halloween colors

0:17:11and we were we were red white and packed

0:17:14powder blue and our and our mascot was

0:17:16the Thunderbird which isn't even really

0:17:19a thing you know when you talk about

0:17:22that though because we might as well

0:17:24bring religion into the mix I I think

0:17:28you talked about how recently about how

0:17:30you know wasn't that long ago

0:17:32that letter is a positive feeling or

0:17:35negative feeling Presbyterian meant

0:17:36something to you like an Episcopalian

0:17:39meant something to you were you an

0:17:40irish-catholic wearing an Italian

0:17:41Catholic they're all these gradations

0:17:43that even if you weren't like a super

0:17:45observant person those meant the same

0:17:48kinds of stuff to average American

0:17:50people that never was like us today

0:17:52associated with certain colleges oh you

0:17:54want to brown or you want to know like

0:17:56there's that certain kind of anybody

0:17:57else would go likewise that wasn't a

0:17:59joke on the simpsons talking about brown

0:18:01like that doesn't make any sense but the

0:18:03other thing that's interesting is first

0:18:05of all like I think it's a think is

0:18:06interesting to look at the way religion

0:18:08changed through the 60 seventies

0:18:10eighties when you got more into this you

0:18:12know but promise on my ass but the

0:18:14combination of like people become more

0:18:16diffuse people's like total acceptance

0:18:19of whatever was said by their clergy

0:18:21person I think tend to get a little bit

0:18:24more dissolute overtime but also you got

0:18:26any more like they call i first started

0:18:27buffet Catholicism the idea that you

0:18:29would accept these things and not those

0:18:31things and you know you might be

0:18:33incredibly Arden partly Catholic about

0:18:36these things and not those but you see

0:18:38that now today in all these million

0:18:40other things doctor who like in the

0:18:42doctor who fan community is it's not

0:18:44just like Doctor Who lots of people like

0:18:47Doctor Who you Napoli really how

0:18:50incredibly specific people get that is

0:18:52true of anything when I listen to NPR

0:18:54now i know i'm out of exciting

0:18:56recognizing your bands on NPR and talk

0:18:58about new pornographers yesterday hit

0:18:59like I got 100 we're just talking to

0:19:03these guys with beards I don't know who

0:19:04they are but like there's so much you

0:19:06realize instrument punk-rock apps think

0:19:07about all the flavors of punk rock but

0:19:10you know you know I mentioned with

0:19:11Doctor Who because it is something that

0:19:13I enjoy that I'm a small fan of compared

0:19:16to the mega fans but I've never seen so

0:19:18much diversity in a community that I'm

0:19:21aware of that there were people get

0:19:23along but at the same time there are

0:19:24some people who really hate this

0:19:25particular doctor they really love this

0:19:27particular duck like the doctor to be

0:19:29like an alien like that like the doctor

0:19:30be like a human they hate this companion

0:19:32love this campaign but like it's almost

0:19:34endless the number of combinations in

0:19:36fandom and you might love the companion

0:19:38in this episode you know short stuff

0:19:39like Star Wars I mean it's just weird

0:19:41because that's something that's popped

0:19:42up

0:19:43as a fan thing especially the last five

0:19:46years there's always been like sci-fi

0:19:47fans but like it's this huge thing it's

0:19:49true and comics but like it gives you

0:19:51that satisfaction of being part of a

0:19:54community while still being incredibly

0:19:56passionate about something and on top of

0:19:58it all

0:19:58you're not just some nerd who likes nerd

0:20:01stuff you're a very specific kind of

0:20:03nerd and you're remembering sec you're

0:20:06in it you're in a tribe but you will

0:20:08really get to pick where you get to sit

0:20:10and I I think that's both very

0:20:13interesting and can potentially be a

0:20:15little divisive because things start to

0:20:17seem real but but i mean i agree with

0:20:20you you don't have the same institutions

0:20:21that she used to and now that we all get

0:20:23to kind of pick our family

0:20:25I think she interesting stuff coming out

0:20:26of that it's definitely gonna make very

0:20:29it's going to make for a very

0:20:30interesting brand base to stick fighting

0:20:33tournaments

0:20:34oh now with a be sponsors or is that the

0:20:37people you follow on twitter like I like

0:20:40a best buy like people follow best buy

0:20:41on Twitter and write out a certain point

0:20:43all of the doctor who fans are going to

0:20:46sit on one side of the stadium against

0:20:49all of the Star Trek fans in the big

0:20:53doctor who star trek fans stick fight

0:20:56tournaments this is like England in the

0:20:58in the late thirties you gotta pick a

0:20:59side right but at a certain point when

0:21:01the doctor who fans go back to the you

0:21:05know the area around santa clara where

0:21:07they have made their homeland and the

0:21:09started their settlements yeah the Star

0:21:12Trek fans go down to Santa Barbara where

0:21:14they have made their home wins that that

0:21:17the the regional stick fighting is all

0:21:19going to happen between the sexes right

0:21:22you're going to have to qualify for the

0:21:23Star Trek team by fight you know you're

0:21:25you're like you're Kirk cause player and

0:21:29you're gonna have to fight against a DNI

0:21:32cause player in order to get that right

0:21:35at the end Troy deanna troi that's right

0:21:38to different areas

0:21:39I know that name I've read that name

0:21:41yeah and so he's an empath i was i was

0:21:44standing out in front of packs the

0:21:46videogame conference the other day it

0:21:48was some people I know and like and we

0:21:51we had reason we had reason to take

0:21:54recourse in our phones

0:21:56for a moment and so everybody pulled

0:21:59their phones out and i looked around and

0:22:01i was the only one with an iphone how

0:22:05that's super interesting let android

0:22:08android they all had android phones and

0:22:11I was and the thing is they didn't make

0:22:14mention of it and I was like oh whoa do

0:22:19you guys all have android phones and

0:22:21they all looked up and kinda had that

0:22:23like huh oh

0:22:26doesn't everyone have an android phone

0:22:27mind a lot of setup you guys are

0:22:30Catholic

0:22:31yeah right like they were going to

0:22:33wonder why would you need to mention

0:22:34what are you talking about whatever

0:22:36you'd 0 is there another kind of phone

0:22:39other than android phone and some of it

0:22:41felt a little bit like practiced but

0:22:45also times have changed just in the last

0:22:48couple years when you wear now that's a

0:22:51not only viable but like to some people

0:22:54I guess so

0:22:55always great greatly preferable for

0:22:57certain people in many ways

0:22:59yeah right and so and they just you know

0:23:01back to like people poop and all of a

0:23:03sudden I felt like I was on enemy

0:23:05territory and I was like oh I don't even

0:23:08care about like I'm not a person who

0:23:12brand identifies but I'm used to in

0:23:15rock-and-roll circles at least

0:23:17everybody's got an iphone and the and so

0:23:20you never have to think about what kind

0:23:22of phone you have anymore you

0:23:25everybody's got an iphone and so it's

0:23:27just assume that that's the only kind of

0:23:29phone and those questions are removed

0:23:32mmm yeah but what happens when somebody

0:23:37texts you and it's a green bubble utd's

0:23:41do you think you think you can teach

0:23:42anything like a steer might what usually

0:23:45goes through my mind is oh now that

0:23:47features working again or now it's not

0:23:50again is the bigger level of blue

0:23:53bubbles mean it's somebody you know why

0:23:55but I text my text my mom all the time

0:23:59and sometimes it's in a green bubble and

0:24:01sometimes in a blue bubble and it and

0:24:04she has a just like mine and so I feel

0:24:07like that is that is another one of

0:24:09it's things that like wouldn't that be

0:24:11interesting if it worked well you're

0:24:13like they're gonna make bigger phones so

0:24:15that's going to be good for you that's

0:24:16gonna be getting really really big fun i

0:24:19have to say this is the thing I'm I'm

0:24:22loath to say because it feels like

0:24:26product promotion but Apple issued that

0:24:30recall all right get the battery thing

0:24:33and I went in and my phone my phone

0:24:39qualified and they gave me a new phone

0:24:42is it and did you get you five we're

0:24:44gonna give you five s uh it's a that

0:24:47they have a they have an internal

0:24:50requirement that it be exactly the same

0:24:54as the phone color you had before

0:24:57that's cool still I mean but it's a

0:24:58brand-new is a refurbished phoner

0:24:59Angelus brand new phone that's awesome

0:25:02going off the shelf and now i don't have

0:25:03the battery problems anymore i go all

0:25:05day long and my phone doesn't die and it

0:25:09and it felt for it felt you know like an

0:25:12example of I mean the my phones two

0:25:14years old at this point and it had been

0:25:16through a couple of different rainstorms

0:25:18it went through the washing machine one

0:25:20time huh

0:25:22I yeah I i used it as a shuttlecock in

0:25:28the in well as I was taking a carpet

0:25:31knitting class the phone was pretty

0:25:33badly damaged get what I'm back to a

0:25:37badminton birdie

0:25:39I took AI took am I took like a berber

0:25:42carpet weaving class and you know you

0:25:44he is if he used the phone as a little

0:25:48shuttlecock

0:25:49ah but the but the company made good on

0:25:54their on their failure right

0:25:57eventually yeah yeah they had they they

0:25:59did a terrible thing they made a bad

0:26:01phone Steve Jobs died and no one was in

0:26:03charge anymore that's right and they put

0:26:05a bad thing out into the world and then

0:26:07two years later they made it right and I

0:26:09am i i'm i'm pleased as well now you got

0:26:12more battery time to give you more time

0:26:13to be frustrated with the things that

0:26:15don't work right on it

0:26:16well not reach our church except i am

0:26:18gradually I am gradually taking a

0:26:22oops off I i put your app threes on

0:26:27there before but i am taking other apps

0:26:30off good-for-you everyday i take some

0:26:33apps off and every day my I walk a

0:26:36little lighter and and and I I feel a

0:26:38little stronger you know you can you can

0:26:41always get him back but you know get

0:26:43them off there is a very freeing feeling

0:26:44did you ever get that other facebook app

0:26:47that you needed so I took facebook off

0:26:50my phone

0:26:51wow it's gone you're kidding gone

0:26:54completely

0:26:54that must have been hard well I you know

0:26:58what it was i sat down and I said you

0:27:00because because the logic i was using

0:27:03was when i get a lot of work through

0:27:04facebook people contact me on facebook

0:27:07and they give me that offers two things

0:27:09and if I don't have facebook on there

0:27:12I'm missing out on all these people

0:27:14these booking agents who are only

0:27:15communicating through facebook anymore

0:27:17but the more I thought about it i sat

0:27:20down and I ran like well let's name the

0:27:23top 10 gigs you've gotten from people

0:27:26contacting you on facebook i was like mm

0:27:29mm right it's mostly garbage you know

0:27:37it's mostly a I do get a lot of i do end

0:27:40up doing a lot of things but it's like

0:27:41hey will you to be in it can i interview

0:27:44you for my high school paper or I don't

0:27:47you know frankly I couldn't remember a

0:27:49single thing and and I felt like if if

0:27:52Facebook the danger is that my facebook

0:27:54page is still out there and so people

0:27:56are going to send me messages on it and

0:27:58then wonder why I didn't reply right but

0:28:03I I can't hold it all that guilt I just

0:28:08took it off i just took it off and I

0:28:10stopped thinking about it that's you

0:28:11know that's the end of the story cold

0:28:13turkey and and it's a it's it's already

0:28:18a delightful to not have that but really

0:28:20really I'm its I'm just I'm narrowing in

0:28:24on twitter i'm i'm stalking it

0:28:27I'm thinking about it you know i'm

0:28:30evaluating what twitter is for me and

0:28:34I'm and I'm I'm coming close to coming

0:28:38close to making a decision to having a

0:28:41referendum on it

0:28:42I keep thinking I keep thinking the

0:28:45there's Benny's legitimately bad things

0:28:47everybody feels bad about this is

0:28:49generally these bad things everybody

0:28:50doesn't like and I keep thinking okay

0:28:52well I guess that that's good that we're

0:28:55getting maybe this progress on that you

0:28:58know on some kind of an issue you know

0:29:00this is the same way that everybody

0:29:01turned their icons green for Iran so we

0:29:03can save them and then they change them

0:29:06back and I keep thinking you know maybe

0:29:08we've reached peak outrage and then it's

0:29:11like it can't be 18 hours before

0:29:14somebody a bunch of people are suddenly

0:29:16mad about a new thing and it really i'm

0:29:19not trying to be cynical because I

0:29:21understand everybody has their reasons

0:29:22but it really it's really i'm reminded

0:29:25when I start getting frustrated about it

0:29:27because it becomes not as fun to use if

0:29:29that's most of what's there

0:29:31it's like you know you're never gonna be

0:29:32not outraged there's always gonna be

0:29:34another thing that you have to have

0:29:37blind righteous outrage about and the

0:29:41bar seems to be getting impossibly low

0:29:43for that it's solo that's exactly right

0:29:46and at least one thing i want to clarify

0:29:48this because I i can hear these words

0:29:50coming out of my mouth and I know what

0:29:51it sounds like i'm not talking about

0:29:52anybody's particular beef and i'm not

0:29:54talking about anybody's particular right

0:29:57right exactly as a writer about the

0:29:59right to feel how they want about stuff

0:30:01but sometimes when I look at the movie

0:30:03listings i don't see any movies I want

0:30:04to go to and more and more that doesn't

0:30:06make me not like movies or hate people

0:30:08who make movies but it does make me have

0:30:10three or four weeks go by were like wow

0:30:12this is really not for me

0:30:14yeah that's what it feels like

0:30:15everything is I'm the reason I'm having

0:30:18this experience is that i'm at that it's

0:30:20it's very personal right like i have

0:30:23always been interested in what's going

0:30:25on and I've always been interested in

0:30:27engaging in the culture as it is now and

0:30:30the end and talking about the

0:30:32contemporary ideas

0:30:34but i have never been someone who's felt

0:30:37a special outraged about anything and I

0:30:42find myself being consumed on a daily

0:30:45basis with you know that that that

0:30:48tightening in the chest and that knot in

0:30:51the stomach where it's not a response to

0:30:55the events that are being debated it's a

0:30:59response to the debate her and and my

0:31:03aunt and my feeling like I need to

0:31:05engage in the debate and I need to be it

0:31:07united we need to be in there throwing

0:31:09elbows and like making sure that my

0:31:12point is heard and all the stuffin you

0:31:15know I did a series of events at

0:31:17bumbershoot this year

0:31:19oh yeah I want to hear how that went and

0:31:21it was really great

0:31:22it was you know I was sort of moderating

0:31:24discussions everyday and early on in the

0:31:30year we can depict various topics that

0:31:33felt really of the moment and we had

0:31:37these panel discussions where a couple

0:31:40of different people who were nominally

0:31:42experts on the topic got up and gave 10

0:31:44minute presentations and then we sat

0:31:46together and discussed the ways in which

0:31:48those ideas overlapped one another and

0:31:52then we took questions from the audience

0:31:53and you know it was like a like an

0:31:55hour-long sort of words and ideas a

0:32:00panel and two of the days went off

0:32:06really really well they were they were

0:32:09the first day was why beards why

0:32:12twerking why now and it was you know it

0:32:18was a little bit of a culture clash I

0:32:20had my friend Elon who is a producer of

0:32:23The Bachelor come up and talk about

0:32:26beards because he has a kind of famously

0:32:27unruly beard he's on the plane

0:32:30he's a guy on the plane with diane and

0:32:32seven alright and then I i had one of

0:32:37the dancers for Big Freedia get up and

0:32:39talk about twerking on the culture

0:32:41twerking

0:32:42well it's a it was a real cultural

0:32:45exchange because this dancer is is it is

0:32:47from New Orleans and came up in the

0:32:49bounce music scene and through his

0:32:53twerking skills and his bounce dancing

0:32:57skills he's now seen the world right he

0:32:59was a guy that probably would have been

0:33:01had you know a New Orleans resident his

0:33:05whole life and never been outside of the

0:33:07city and through bounce and that the

0:33:10cultural through because the world has

0:33:13gotten excited about and has now

0:33:16appropriated his regional culture he

0:33:20gets an opportunity to go to Paris and

0:33:22and dance on television and talk for

0:33:24money work for money so talking to him

0:33:28about about the world and how it is that

0:33:31that his culture is so popular now in

0:33:36his awareness that it's a it's a kind of

0:33:39a moment in the Sun but but then he was

0:33:42talking about how bounce is 20 years old

0:33:46already and will and it will live in New

0:33:50Orleans for an eternity

0:33:52you know he was very sanguine about it

0:33:54and it was just it was a very

0:33:56interesting conversation and like how

0:33:57you wouldn't think those two things went

0:33:59together but that is exactly the kind of

0:34:01program we were trying to do and it's

0:34:03nice i mean you get a gloss on this but

0:34:05it's nice to hear somebody who's not

0:34:07super defensive about it and it's just

0:34:09glad to see people enjoying it and

0:34:10seeing it spread

0:34:11yeah and I felt like he has some like

0:34:13ownership on where he you know wants to

0:34:15get his percentage from it right and and

0:34:17and to his credit and I think this is

0:34:19you know I mean when you get an

0:34:21opportunity to talk two dancers about

0:34:24culture you get a different perspective

0:34:25you know and he's a he he is primarily

0:34:28interacting with the world with his body

0:34:31and like he wants to talk about he wants

0:34:34to dance primarily and then he's willing

0:34:36to talk about it and that was that was

0:34:39cool and and

0:34:41and exciting and then the the next day I

0:34:44had a brownie and a juggalo come out and

0:34:47describe their cultures that devil you

0:34:49say

0:34:49and really yeah and the the the brownie

0:34:52was a guy you may have seen on the

0:34:54internet called the world's manliest

0:34:57brownie

0:34:58he's a he's a a guy that works at a in

0:35:01the parts dept of a harley-davidson

0:35:02dealership in michigan and he's also a

0:35:06brownie he's six foot five and 300

0:35:08pounds and he's got like a walrus

0:35:12mustache walrus mustache that guy and he

0:35:15had a real pattern about he'd been on a

0:35:18couple of documentary films about

0:35:19bronies and he was you he already was

0:35:21sort of the thought of himself as a

0:35:23celebrity and I and as a worldwide

0:35:28advocate for bronies but the juggalo was

0:35:33just a guy from Arizona name at the

0:35:37dragon spell TR AG a.m. and Matt the

0:35:44dragon was just a kid who was juggalo

0:35:51and had made a had made a film about

0:35:55juggalos and he had never given a public

0:36:01presentation before and he got up and

0:36:04started talking about juggalo lyfe and

0:36:08this on the audience that I that I had

0:36:10for this event you know just 250 or 300

0:36:13Seattle liberals and they really wanted

0:36:19to confront this guy and I had I had

0:36:22people stand up during the

0:36:23question-and-answer and like and so one

0:36:26woman said i was like i'm gonna read use

0:36:28of insane clown posse lyrics now at Lana

0:36:31and I want you to defend because he you

0:36:35know he was saying like juggalos a

0:36:37community and we are we're good for the

0:36:39world

0:36:40she was like I want you to defend the

0:36:41misogyny and violence in this

0:36:45and he very gracefully and a and because

0:36:49he's just in the life right he he he's

0:36:52not he wasn't thinking he wasn't he

0:36:56wasn't prepared to be confronted but he

0:36:59handled her question the following way

0:37:01he said well you know the violence and

0:37:04all the like a clownish language that

0:37:12they use is well first of all they're

0:37:15clowns we are all clowns and that is

0:37:19because we feel like we're the clouds of

0:37:20society so a lot of it is pretend we're

0:37:24we're playing pretend

0:37:26but but that violence and and misogyny

0:37:29and all that stuff attracts violent

0:37:33young men to juggle ilysm and then once

0:37:38they're in the community we tame them

0:37:42and and show them that we are a family

0:37:47and that we and that they finally have a

0:37:49family and it was like you could hear

0:37:53the beacon here

0:37:54a hush descends on the room and I i

0:37:57think a lot of people didn't agree but

0:38:02they that hear this guy was defending

0:38:05his life and uh and I it was it was a

0:38:10truly an example of a roomful of people

0:38:12who left their with something to think

0:38:14about who you know like there's a lot of

0:38:17violent young guys out there that didn't

0:38:18have fathers and if they end up in the

0:38:22juggalo community

0:38:23I mean this guy's point was there are a

0:38:24lot worse things that could happen and

0:38:27juggalo is a is a place for them to land

0:38:29was like oh ok

0:38:31right on you know that's like that

0:38:32sounds like a successful event

0:38:35high fives all around ok so the last day

0:38:37the panel and I bet as it was

0:38:41approaching out i was thinking back nine

0:38:43months ago when I was when we were

0:38:45throwing ideas around and we settled on

0:38:47our ideas and I was just slapping my

0:38:50head going

0:38:51what were we thinking but the last day

0:38:54the panel was why cat

0:38:56why bullying why now and in trying to

0:39:01put this panel together it turned out I

0:39:04know the manager of grumpy cat he's a

0:39:07personal friend and he's and that's his

0:39:10job he manages grumpy cat and that's

0:39:12that catalyst grumpy

0:39:13it's the grumpy cat huh he's his manager

0:39:16I think he also manages that little some

0:39:22sort of 8-bit graphic the cat with the

0:39:26rainbow and the triangle eyes he manages

0:39:30that cat and he manages a one other cat

0:39:35another famous Catholic busy

0:39:39professional cat manager he's a

0:39:40professional internet cat manager so I

0:39:45know I'm gonna regret laughing in a

0:39:46minute i think that's that's kind of

0:39:48funny on the face of it

0:39:49oh yeah and in fact he's in vancouver

0:39:52right now I hope I don't give too much

0:39:53away but he's making a grumpy cat

0:39:55christmas movie

0:39:56well yeah but uh the bullying topic i

0:40:03tried to get dan Savage to be on the

0:40:04panel and he wrote me a very thoughtful

0:40:06email where he said I will be on any

0:40:08panel you ever ask me to be except

0:40:12bullying I do not ever want to talk

0:40:14about it again

0:40:16what because he's talked about a line

0:40:18yeah well he's the he's the he's the guy

0:40:20is the it gets better' guy he's the good

0:40:22let's get back in there gets better guy

0:40:25ok it was great except he has come under

0:40:28tremendous fire as everyone in the world

0:40:31does now who says anything off the

0:40:34reservation out in the world and I don't

0:40:37even know why he has come under fire

0:40:39from inside that community people yeah

0:40:41on the goddamn bowling topic I don't

0:40:42know why I don't I don't I didn't even

0:40:44research it enough to know why he feels

0:40:46burned but he's like I don't want to

0:40:48talk about anymore and I tried to get a

0:40:50couple of different people and nobody

0:40:51would talk about it and as as we got

0:40:54closer to bumbershoot I was like I

0:40:55understand why no one wants to talk

0:40:58about bullying in public

0:41:00and I'm wondering why I thought it was a

0:41:02good idea to have this on the have this

0:41:06is a topic and the more I thought about

0:41:09it was like oh i remember why i thought

0:41:11it was interesting because it is

0:41:12interesting it would be it's a very

0:41:15interesting topic it's a kid why is

0:41:18bullying why has it become so a

0:41:21fascinating to us at this moment in time

0:41:23it is occupying a huge place in the

0:41:26culture talking about bullying and what

0:41:29is bullying and what does it represent

0:41:31and I mean it's a fascinating topic and

0:41:35I remember why I chose it because i

0:41:38really really thought it would be

0:41:39interesting but as it got closer and I

0:41:42tried to get a panelist to represent it

0:41:44and all I got back was like no thank you

0:41:48i mean i would love to work with you

0:41:50anytime but please know i'm feeling I'm

0:41:52feeling down here John is it because

0:41:54talking about trying to stop bullying

0:41:56makes you a target for being bullied

0:41:58well let me let me tell you what

0:42:01happened so we got a woman who is a

0:42:03stand-up comedian from Portland who

0:42:06agreed to talk about bullying and she

0:42:07she got up and her presentation was a

0:42:11kind of polemical she cheat true on all

0:42:17the received wisdom that you would find

0:42:19on twitter about you know like we all

0:42:23agree that we live in a patriarchal rape

0:42:26culture where etc etc etc you know all

0:42:30the all the sort of like we all agree

0:42:33statements and what follows from that is

0:42:37uh is this you know is the fact that

0:42:42bullying is endemic in our culture and

0:42:46that it is that it creates all these

0:42:49terrible outcomes and that it is a that

0:42:51it's even further evidence that that

0:42:57that that are I guess that our culture

0:43:00is unsustainably broken and then the

0:43:05audience started and I i preface the

0:43:07whole event by saying like we're talking

0:43:10about these ideas in their contemporary

0:43:12context so we're not just going to get

0:43:14up here and define bullying and then

0:43:18argue about it it's what's interesting

0:43:21about this is like why now why is this

0:43:23happening now and how does this relate

0:43:25you know cats are very popular on the

0:43:28internet right now

0:43:29cats are a perennial topic they've

0:43:31always cats have been around for

0:43:32hundreds of thousands of years

0:43:34why are they so contemporary and

0:43:37bullying to has always existed why now

0:43:40you know that was the idea

0:43:41well so this woman gets up and actually

0:43:43does give just a definition of what she

0:43:45imagines the definitely she sounds like

0:43:47she unlike the others maybe she opened

0:43:49up this is good or bad

0:43:50it says she opened up by reminding you

0:43:53that we all agree on what describes this

0:43:56problem didn't just open up that was

0:43:58that was her entire presentation was

0:44:00just yet fully like you said polemic

0:44:02yeah was just was describing her not her

0:44:05take on it because there was nothing

0:44:07imaginative about it but basically just

0:44:09reading hashtag bullying presumptions

0:44:15and then the audience started raising

0:44:19their hands to ask questions and i felt

0:44:20like i was at a fucking chemtrails

0:44:22conference every person stood up and

0:44:27gave a five-minute long speech about

0:44:29what they thought about boolean no

0:44:36questions that were not even that there

0:44:39wasn't even the slightest hint of a

0:44:40question thread into these statements i

0:44:42was like being at a tea party town hall

0:44:44meeting and I'm sitting on stage and

0:44:47that this hasn't happened at any other

0:44:49panel that I've moderated and I'm trying

0:44:52to you know I'm like okay that's great

0:44:54well you know trying to interrupt and

0:44:55say like is there a question in this or

0:44:57do you have something at it and people

0:45:00were shouting talking over me sound so

0:45:04weird and then all of a sudden there's a

0:45:07there's like an invisible divide that

0:45:08starts

0:45:09down the middle of the room where think

0:45:11the cat guy is kind of setting up there

0:45:13like okay dokey well and he leans in and

0:45:17says you know I mean it's funny because

0:45:19a lot of these bullying a lot of this

0:45:23stuff we're um people don't know what

0:45:25the rules are a lot of that used to be

0:45:28solved in the old days by a like

0:45:30basically playground playground

0:45:35democracy right if you were a bully you

0:45:37got Smackdown by somebody else and maybe

0:45:39a little bit of bullying is what keeps

0:45:41people in line and all of a sudden half

0:45:45the room was like yeah and the other

0:45:49half of the room could not have been

0:45:51more appalled and they were like you

0:45:53know who and I was like whoa whoa that's

0:45:58you know that's that's he just

0:46:00contributed a sentence to the

0:46:02conversation it's not like we are no you

0:46:05put your Spears down everybody and that

0:46:08and I was as the moderator sitting on

0:46:10stage just hoping that the hour would be

0:46:14over

0:46:15it's at that point you know I feel after

0:46:17after 75 minutes at that point you go

0:46:20like I don't know there's a way out of

0:46:21this there and I was just I was I was

0:46:24you know anything you say is gonna be

0:46:27again this is not a value thing but once

0:46:28you start once one starts feeling that

0:46:30pressure you realize that anything you

0:46:32say is likely to make it worse

0:46:34there's nothing you can do or you're

0:46:35gonna sound dismissive of people you're

0:46:37gonna you're gonna sound like you're

0:46:39taking one side more seriously than the

0:46:40other and even in deciding like okay

0:46:42there's obviously two sides here you're

0:46:44going to give a lot of weight to one

0:46:46side just by acknowledging that it

0:46:47exists that's right you know what I mean

0:46:49it's like the whole network TV thing

0:46:51I've always trying to find the two sides

0:46:52to every issue it's just somebody

0:46:54agreeing that there could be a second

0:46:56side of this makes it extremely

0:46:57controversial yeah and-and-and that the

0:46:59woman had set up the setup fill the

0:47:01whole structure of it like well we all

0:47:04agree that we live in a patriarchal rape

0:47:06culture even matter people on the

0:47:08defensive

0:47:09well but the thing is like it to at just

0:47:11to illustrate what you're saying if you

0:47:12say well there are two sides to that the

0:47:15the only other side to that is that we

0:47:17do live in a patriarchal rape culture

0:47:19and you're denying it in

0:47:21like that's the only like you think of

0:47:23actually I don't accept the terms of

0:47:24your argument i want to argue with you

0:47:26but we're not going to start with that

0:47:28has to look it

0:47:29yeah and as the moderator it was you

0:47:32know I she she had a 10-minute

0:47:34presentation and by the time she was

0:47:35done like I couldn't I thought my job

0:47:38was not to debate or my job was just a

0:47:40physical facilitate the conversation and

0:47:43so it's like right okay I mean yeah it's

0:47:47like we all agree on cheez-its except we

0:47:49don't all agree on cheese but if you

0:47:52don't you know if you if you don't agree

0:47:54with cheese in within the context of

0:47:56that argument you are basically a cop in

0:47:59Ferguson um and so anyway it was it was

0:48:03an example of when I walked out of that

0:48:06panel i felt very emotionally raw and it

0:48:12it had transported me back to the place

0:48:14on the internet that I least wanted to

0:48:17be and I felt for a couple of hours like

0:48:19this totally new sensation which was

0:48:24maybe i am not i can maybe I maybe the

0:48:32culture is moving in a direction that I

0:48:34can't go you know I felt for a for a

0:48:38brief moment like it was 1969 and

0:48:41somebody was standing somebody was

0:48:44confronting me on the street and saying

0:48:46don't trust anyone over 30 and I was

0:48:49like wait a minute I'm 45 and I am

0:48:51trustworthy and the and the response was

0:48:54just like nope

0:48:56the end up right now you're

0:48:57counter-revolutionary yeah right having

0:48:59and now we call you a

0:49:00counterrevolutionary you're over 30 and

0:49:02that's where we've drawn the line and so

0:49:04and and and it you know as as history

0:49:07has shown don't trust anyone over 30 was

0:49:11a dumb idea

0:49:12I mean it was it fulfilled the purpose

0:49:14of it but as a rallying cry it can seem

0:49:18very sensible especially if you're doing

0:49:20a lot of illegal activities like at the

0:49:22time doing the felony of smoking pot you

0:49:25probably don't want to trust that many

0:49:26people over 30 but as a view of life it

0:49:28does not have longevity right if you're

0:49:30lucky that it's a moment it's a moment

0:49:33in history

0:49:34in 1968 i'm sure it made a ton of sense

0:49:37but yeah if you hold on to that as a as

0:49:40a as a guide

0:49:42you're gonna be really sad on your 30th

0:49:44birthday and it's anything amazing how

0:49:47few subtleties you you'll find things

0:49:49that began as things people shouted

0:49:51right and then i have this moment where

0:49:54I felt like oh maybe this is the

0:49:56contemporary version of that it is meant

0:49:58to be a scorched-earth policy

0:50:01you're either on one side of the this

0:50:05whole like constellation of issues and

0:50:09if you're if you're on the one side of

0:50:12it then you're uh then you are on the

0:50:15right side of history and if you're on

0:50:17any other side any one of 50 other

0:50:20potential viewpoints are all rejected

0:50:22because there's only one but there's

0:50:25only one way of linking all these ideas

0:50:28together and well that's a shame though

0:50:31I mean I I can only go by what you said

0:50:33but it's a shame that it was presented

0:50:34in that way because of all the things

0:50:36you're talking about that seems like one

0:50:38that could potentially people could find

0:50:40I'll get having made a slight difference

0:50:41agreements but there's the kind of thing

0:50:43most people kind of agree on which is

0:50:45something that's something we'd rather

0:50:46not have why is that interesting today

0:50:48in a way that it wasn't 30 years ago

0:50:50and why is that challenging today and it

0:50:52was the way it wasn't 30 years ago which

0:50:53is of a much more nuanced question it's

0:50:56a fascinating

0:50:57it's a fascinating topic icons my excuse

0:50:59for what it's worth at my kids school

0:51:00she's in first grade now and that last

0:51:03year and this year there's like these

0:51:04two like real big tentpole things that

0:51:06are school both of which i think pretty

0:51:07great

0:51:08what is this thing called restorative

0:51:09practices which sounds really fruity but

0:51:11it's basically just this idea of trying

0:51:13to learn to settle agreements by talking

0:51:14about what actually happened instead of

0:51:16like yelling at people and its really

0:51:17neat it's actually ever need any other

0:51:19one is bullying and you can tell that

0:51:20every third-grader that place has made a

0:51:22poster that's on the walls about

0:51:23bullying

0:51:24it's just everywhere really advise that

0:51:26this is a little I don't know it's not

0:51:27all that useful just saying no to

0:51:28bullying sure that really solves it but

0:51:30the thing is they want the school once

0:51:32you understand the bullying is not okay

0:51:34here that's on every wall

0:51:36I don't know with the net result of that

0:51:37is but I'm telling you this is a as

0:51:39current as today's headlines

0:51:41I think that the I think that the net

0:51:42result is that a lot of kids that are 10

0:51:44years old right now

0:51:45if you said have you you know is they're

0:51:48bullying in your school they would they

0:51:50would go what know something about

0:51:52looking on the sides

0:51:53yeah there's no bullying at all

0:51:55and-and-and in it in a way considering

0:51:59how much bullying there was that when we

0:52:01were kids that is

0:52:04you know that's I think a tremendous

0:52:07advance

0:52:08except except what you know the dark

0:52:11side of that is like like our art I mean

0:52:14are they prosecuting kids like are

0:52:17adults hyper-vigilant over them me in a

0:52:20way that one piece of that one piece of

0:52:22it is the basic educational process of

0:52:26saying something over and over often

0:52:28enough and having different people say

0:52:29that the same way off enough over and

0:52:31over that it does start to see more

0:52:32conventional wisdom so God willing that

0:52:34would be it

0:52:35that's not gonna have a huge effect on

0:52:36some of his father's beating them up at

0:52:37home and want to come into school and

0:52:38find somebody shrimpy to hit that's a

0:52:40much more complicated problem that

0:52:42doesn't come down to as easy as stop

0:52:44bullying but but somebody somebody in

0:52:47middle school high school college for

0:52:51chance somebody out there started that

0:52:53bullying some time for some reason it

0:52:55didn't that the just didn't probably

0:52:57come out of you know spontaneous

0:53:01generation so I mean I think they're

0:53:03trying to you know put down the seeds

0:53:05and I don't think I don't see it like I

0:53:06used to you know you don't see just

0:53:08because the way kids are supervised

0:53:09today it's different but I mean yeah I

0:53:11mean who knows who knows the the dread

0:53:13you have is a little kid know when I

0:53:14walk around this corner i'm going to be

0:53:16facing this thing and that happens every

0:53:18day right probably have you know it's

0:53:20happening

0:53:21wherewhere kid is gonna throw rocks at

0:53:22you or or or put your head in the toilet

0:53:25or whatever Oscars next to their lockers

0:53:27lockers never not gonna be next year

0:53:28locker they're always going to have

0:53:29three or four friends there and they're

0:53:31always gonna have a little relaxation

0:53:33time by treating you like less than a

0:53:35person and that's writing that happens

0:53:36every day and we thought we I mean much

0:53:39I've had that Shirin and so have I and I

0:53:42guess I guess the the part of the

0:53:44conversation that's interesting to me is

0:53:46like throughout the whole second half of

0:53:50the 20th century we have had a lot of

0:53:52social engineering projects

0:53:55that we that we introduced into the

0:54:01school's right we're trying to solve

0:54:03problems as adults

0:54:06we're trying to solve problems in our

0:54:07adulthood by going not back to our own

0:54:11childhoods but into the schools of of

0:54:14kids now and saying like okay well there

0:54:17are a lot of racial problems in America

0:54:20and so we're going to put kids on buses

0:54:24and send them all the way across town

0:54:26and we're going to we're going to enter

0:54:28we're going to forcibly integrate the

0:54:30schools and in so doing we are going to

0:54:33solve the racial problems in America and

0:54:36it's an example of adults not knowing

0:54:38how to solve that problem in the adult

0:54:41world and not being willing to make

0:54:44those changes in their own lives but

0:54:46instead deciding that what we're going

0:54:49to do is go into the schools and we're

0:54:51going to we're going to force the kids

0:54:53to resolve the issue by this kind of

0:54:57social engineer I exactly was gonna say

0:54:59it's a kind of benevolent benevolent

0:55:01like you're trying to do so but you're

0:55:03doing it from a good place

0:55:04yeah and it's a beautiful it's a

0:55:06beautiful idea the kids you know the

0:55:08thing that's so hard for me to accept

0:55:10somebody likes to think of himself as

0:55:12trying to do the right thing and being

0:55:13principled is I know that if I say

0:55:16something to someone not just my kid

0:55:18that anybody if I say that something is

0:55:20important or I say that I believe

0:55:22something I could see that hundreds even

0:55:25seriously hundreds of times i could say

0:55:27brush your teeth before bed but you know

0:55:29what if I don't brush my teeth every

0:55:31night before bed and have them see that

0:55:33that's cognitive dissonance and yeah it

0:55:35hurts my credibility and more

0:55:36importantly show you that's not how the

0:55:38world works

0:55:39so like when I was in in Tallahassee

0:55:41know this is nothing its people Florida

0:55:44please relax but I don't think I can't

0:55:45think of a single person i interacted

0:55:47with who would have thought themselves

0:55:48on the face of it as a racist and yet i

0:55:51can tell you including me when I moved

0:55:53to san francisco i think i told you this

0:55:55but it was maybe two months before

0:55:57something that was a weird niggling

0:56:00thing on the honors kind of the corner

0:56:02of my consciousness became very clear

0:56:04which is I went Wow

0:56:06there are so many not white people in

0:56:09positions of power here everyday a kid

0:56:11that grows up in our town sees asian

0:56:13people who are in power they see black

0:56:15people who are in power you have a black

0:56:16boss and I'm just here to tell you that

0:56:18that was not something you saw every day

0:56:21in places where i lived in ohio and

0:56:23florida you see it but it wouldn't it

0:56:25would seem weird enough that you didn't

0:56:27make you change your vision of things

0:56:28but i did not see the point of the point

0:56:30I'm going on about is that like that

0:56:32stuff will not seem real until you

0:56:34actually see it when people just keep

0:56:36telling you that that's the thing that

0:56:37should happen over and over like in the

0:56:40petri dish of an elementary school

0:56:41it's really different from spinning

0:56:43noticing what people are pulling each

0:56:44other as much as they used to

0:56:46I'm finding a different way to work this

0:56:47out i have a black boss and she's

0:56:49actually pretty great right

0:56:51whatever what you see everyday is what

0:56:53I'm saying at the those projects i mean

0:56:58like integration was a culture wide

0:57:01project we were trying we were trying

0:57:03two hundred different things you know

0:57:06affirmative action and and a bra and

0:57:09well and busing and affirmative action i

0:57:13think was a very positive like had very

0:57:15positive results i'm not sure about

0:57:17busting and and primarily it's because

0:57:20we added a tremendous layer of

0:57:24inconvenience to something that was

0:57:26already inconvenient which is getting

0:57:28your kid up and going to school busing

0:57:29was bussing nothing was an unsuccessful

0:57:31hack because it is successful hack right

0:57:35within encoding is something that takes

0:57:38an annoying problem and solves it

0:57:40potentially in elegant way that was a

0:57:42very in elegant solution that basically

0:57:44made it clearer than ever will be that

0:57:46you're going to be fucking super

0:57:47inconvenience by this but may that there

0:57:49is a basic inequality that we can't fix

0:57:51and so we have to reset where the pieces

0:57:53on the board and have you agree that

0:57:55that's making it better

0:57:56even they are fixing your basic problem

0:57:58and and so that the I mean it in the in

0:58:02the long term we have so much less

0:58:05bullying now in the culture than we did

0:58:08even when we lose internet stuff done

0:58:13you sure about that i mean the thing

0:58:16about the admin internet bullying is

0:58:20that the internet is just a giant

0:58:22bullying cesspool I mean I'm a 45 year

0:58:25old man i would go on the internet every

0:58:27day and feel in one way or another

0:58:28bullied and a lot of the bullying is

0:58:31from people who would describe

0:58:33themselves as primarily as victims you

0:58:36know like it's the it's the oldest trick

0:58:38in the book to get on the internet and

0:58:40say I am a victim of this oppressive

0:58:42culture and so I am so mad that i'm

0:58:45going to be that i'm going to be hateful

0:58:47to everybody i encounter today at and

0:58:50that is and that is and that's like I

0:58:53the argument against that is that are

0:58:56you miss Andres now I mean are you like

0:58:59that the the idea that the idea that

0:59:02this woman presented which is that he

0:59:07had a perceived imbalance of power is

0:59:11equal to an actual imbalance of power

0:59:13and so a person can be a person who

0:59:18perceived themselves to be in a position

0:59:20of less power

0:59:22[Music]

0:59:23it might as well be that that person is

0:59:25in a position of less power and I was

0:59:28like listening to a presentation I was

0:59:30like no that is in that is exactly wrong

0:59:32like just to perceive yourself to have

0:59:35less power is not anything just because

0:59:38you feel it doesn't mean it's real

0:59:40in the words of Radiohead and and I

0:59:44think the internet is full of people who

0:59:46are like I perceive myself to be a

0:59:48victim of everything and so you know

0:59:50every time I go on the internet I'm on

0:59:53I'm on a daily crusade to lecture

0:59:55everybody hey I have an encounter with

0:59:58to go from place to place

0:59:58to go from place to place

1:00:00place to place just pedantically

1:00:02schooling fools right and left and it's

1:00:04just like oh my god you're just

1:00:06spreading you are spreading evil but is

1:00:09like people are going to remember that

1:00:11lesson you were meant to be teaching

1:00:12they're going to remember that you're

1:00:13kind of an unpleasant person

1:00:15yeah and so the internet is a giant is

1:00:18just a giant Hudson that's an ugly place

1:00:20now it's not a place I want to be but I

1:00:22think ultimately is there less bullying

1:00:25in the world in our world

1:00:28yes is there less bullying is there less

1:00:31bullying in seattle than there is in

1:00:33oklahoma city probably is there less

1:00:36bullying in oklahoma city than there is

1:00:38in lagos yes in almost certainly like

1:00:42his bullying still rife in in the the

1:00:48outskirts neighborhoods in Shanghai yeah

1:00:51i bet it is because I i guess this is

1:00:55one of the this is one of the big

1:00:56questions of of like secularism is that

1:01:03if we establish that we are members of

1:01:07the animal kingdom which the secular

1:01:11half of the of the world you know has

1:01:15been a lot of time trying to say like we

1:01:17are part of the system we are animals we

1:01:20are not God beings we are not separate

1:01:24from our environment we are not we are

1:01:26we are not significantly different from

1:01:32animals that we can afford to rule over

1:01:36the world without consequence but the

1:01:40flip side of that is nowhere in the

1:01:43animal kingdom is anything fair and we

1:01:48are looking at ourselves as

1:01:50simultaneously members of this of this

1:01:57natural system and also imposing upon

1:02:00ourselves

1:02:02incredibly unnatural thought

1:02:04technologies and that is if that's

1:02:08fascinating and wonderful because a lot

1:02:12of those thought technologies that take

1:02:14us out of the animal kingdom have

1:02:16improved our lot in life and are

1:02:20improving the world but now but i would

1:02:23suggest never presume that any of those

1:02:26things are real or that any of those

1:02:29things reflect reality they are they are

1:02:32experiments they are attempts and so

1:02:37like when you talk about it like and

1:02:39wanting to try on and I idea like a

1:02:41jacket yeah so we're we're trying to

1:02:43eliminate bullying even though bullying

1:02:46is in the animal kingdom in the natural

1:02:49world

1:02:50bullying is one of the foundational

1:02:52methods like every single animal family

1:02:59uses precisely bullying as a way of

1:03:05organizing itself bigger animals squash

1:03:09little animals the two you know the the

1:03:12litter of kittens establishes their

1:03:14their their dominance chain like pigs do

1:03:19it

1:03:20chickens do it it's a pecking order

1:03:23I mean everything we all of our language

1:03:25for that stuff comes from watching

1:03:29animals do it and every animal doesn't

1:03:32so if our end game is to eliminate

1:03:34bullying what is it mean it isn't just a

1:03:40small little inconvenience that we are

1:03:45that we should be ashamed of and like

1:03:47that that should that we should continue

1:03:51to be outraged and appalled by we should

1:03:54be able to look at it and say this is

1:03:55one of the fundamental principles of

1:03:57animal life and we are trying to

1:04:00dispense with it we are trying to change

1:04:04and evolve so that bullying is not the

1:04:08way that we order our systems

1:04:10but it is absolutely in everything and

1:04:16so to change it is not just a question

1:04:20of like go into the schools and put

1:04:21posters on the walls and indoctrinated

1:04:24the kids so that they don't think of

1:04:25bullying anymore it's not a small thing

1:04:27the book kids are seeing bullying in

1:04:30every walk of life and in every in every

1:04:34aspect of human culture and so if if

1:04:37this is our project

1:04:38I just wish that we could talk about it

1:04:40in this bigger sense of like okay if

1:04:44we're gonna if we're going to evolve

1:04:46into the Grays like like I'm all for it

1:04:51let's go but if you're but what are you

1:04:54going to replace bullying with because

1:04:57if you go into the offices of Vogue

1:04:59magazine i guarantee you there's

1:05:01bullying at every desk if you go into

1:05:03the west wing of the White House

1:05:05bullying is everywhere and it's encoded

1:05:09and the more white collar you make it

1:05:11the more the the subtler it gets but

1:05:14subtle bullying is fucking bullying so

1:05:18so it just it feels a little bit like

1:05:21the the posters on the walls of the

1:05:23schools and the and the attention that

1:05:26were paying two kids to eradicate what

1:05:28we think is this you know this bullying

1:05:31is another to me and in a way up

1:05:35potential busing idea which is just like

1:05:38we're going to go into the schools and

1:05:40we we can't fix this problem in our own

1:05:42culture

1:05:43we're not even capable of seeing it for

1:05:45what it is but we don't but we all have

1:05:48painful memories of being bullied as a

1:05:49kid and so we're going to go down into

1:05:51the schools and create a kind of

1:05:54fahrenheit 451 scenario where at where

1:06:00no one is able to say what things are no

1:06:03one is able to acknowledge reality and

1:06:07kids are going to be 19 years old and

1:06:09they're going to come out of these

1:06:10schools and be like bullying is bad i

1:06:12have never bullied anyone nor have I

1:06:13ever been bullied

1:06:15but it's all you know it's all just a I

1:06:20like a soup of lives mi i think i could

1:06:25get what you're saying but I just have

1:06:27one angle on it though which is that i'm

1:06:30reminded of the times I've gone and talk

1:06:32to companies and I always have an easy

1:06:34laugh when I talk about the signs the

1:06:35people leave by the coffee machine you

1:06:38know where the signs I have your mom

1:06:40doesn't work here and how there's I

1:06:42think they have to affect those have are

1:06:44pretty consistent i am I don't wanna

1:06:46argue whether bullying is snatching

1:06:48animal thing maybe it is i think we

1:06:49might be using that word a little

1:06:51differently but what I will say is its

1:06:53when you put up a sign in the in the

1:06:56kitchen arm to no one in particular a

1:06:59shame song is Yeah right right where you

1:07:02like you're an asshole because you're

1:07:03not doing this thing that I'm telling

1:07:04you we all agreed we should do which may

1:07:08or may not be true you know the fact is

1:07:10if you worry about the cleanliness of

1:07:11the kitchen it means a lot to you to

1:07:12keep it clean you know what fair enough

1:07:14you're probably aa above the 50

1:07:16percentile of people who clean the

1:07:17kitchen i'll even give you that one

1:07:19the problem is when you put that sign up

1:07:20the the effects that you have that I

1:07:22think i mighta shown and not talk about

1:07:24some other shows but I never showed you

1:07:25a lot of dogs poop in a park near our

1:07:28house and at one point somebody had gone

1:07:29up and put signs around the entire

1:07:31perimeter of the reservoir with noting

1:07:34how many piles of poop they had counted

1:07:36in the last month the people had left

1:07:37their it's sort of like this workplace

1:07:39has this noise without a poop

1:07:41yeah but think about that for a second

1:07:43and I just as I is my mind at my age

1:07:45goes through what the actual effect of

1:07:48that will be icy several things

1:07:49happening and i think this is related to

1:07:50what you're talking about

1:07:51there's on the one hand there's going to

1:07:53be a whole bunch of people like a ton of

1:07:55people who don't have dogs who could

1:07:57like what a stupid sign what's wrong

1:07:59with these people

1:08:00I don't like poop either but what a dumb

1:08:01sign this is gonna be a lot of people

1:08:03with dogs who pick up their dogs poop

1:08:06we're going hey why are you yelling at

1:08:08me i'm already doing that if anything

1:08:10that's gonna make them less you know

1:08:11they're not you that this is how

1:08:13enforcement works you know a

1:08:14reinforcement that's gonna make them

1:08:16probably more likely to not want to do

1:08:17because they don't feel applauded for

1:08:19doing what's been done they feel yelled

1:08:21at by this by this warrior who's gonna

1:08:23tell them that that's what they should

1:08:24be doing and you know what the most

1:08:25importantly arguably i will bet you x 2

1:08:28don't

1:08:28that's that 11 out of 13 people who do

1:08:32let their dog shit anywhere are not

1:08:35going to change a single thing as a

1:08:37result of seeing that side it will have

1:08:38that arrow will have fallen very far

1:08:40away from its target that the sign that

1:08:42you put in the kitchen that ends up

1:08:44yelling at ninety percent of the office

1:08:45is not going to change the one or two

1:08:47people who are doing that thing so that

1:08:51i think is part of the problems when you

1:08:53start out and I you know again I don't

1:08:54care

1:08:55everything works in different ways with

1:08:56different people but I think it's

1:08:58important to remember that when you set

1:08:59something up with anybody set something

1:09:01up as an adversarial relationship i

1:09:03understand why we do that it's very

1:09:05natural especially if you feel like

1:09:07you've been aggrieved by something or

1:09:08you know something's happening you very

1:09:10understanding to to come out of the box

1:09:12mad about that the thing I think it's

1:09:14important to remember to take bullying

1:09:16for example there's going to be three

1:09:18maybe three large amounts 33 mainly

1:09:21three kinds of kids there's a kind of

1:09:22kids that are not bullying anybody on

1:09:24any conceivable level there are the kind

1:09:26of kids who are unrepentant fucking

1:09:28bullies that hope for home assign is

1:09:30going to change absolutely nothing right

1:09:32but the one that those signs might reach

1:09:34the people that i'm most interested in

1:09:35this very very quiet little percentage

1:09:38of people who didn't know that there is

1:09:40something they might think about

1:09:40differently and maybe despite being

1:09:42fucking yelled at every turn about how

1:09:44to act they discovered there's a way I

1:09:46could change my behavior a little bit

1:09:48they would make the world a little bit

1:09:49better and it doesn't make me less

1:09:50strong to do that that's the people i

1:09:52admire and that's why i always think if

1:09:54you go into something yelling you're

1:09:56going to have a smaller and smaller

1:09:57amount of that super interesting third

1:09:59group who sometimes can be very

1:10:01influential people but if you come out

1:10:03of box like yelling at everybody and

1:10:04having a system having a program in mind

1:10:07and basically explain to everybody what

1:10:09the problem is before they had an

1:10:10opportunity to understand it you always

1:10:12lose the chance of the subtle people who

1:10:14might have changed what they do because

1:10:16now they feel like they're being

1:10:18victimized by being yelled at or you

1:10:20know what i mean i think that when you

1:10:22think about although it doesn't lead to

1:10:24anything getting that much better it

1:10:25just leads to us becoming more callous

1:10:27about thinking who else is wrong about

1:10:29this

1:10:29yeah this is what I'm saying how think

1:10:31about all the much more interesting ways

1:10:33of reaching that subtle group of people

1:10:35then putting up

1:10:37science in the kitchen yeah basically

1:10:39Stalinist signs all around instructing

1:10:43everyone on how to live and I and I

1:10:45guess I guess what it boils down to to

1:10:47me is that the endgame for for everybody

1:10:52for any school of thought if you ask

1:10:54somebody to to describe their plan like

1:10:58why do they have a certain school of

1:11:00thought they will give you a utopian

1:11:03answer right the endgame is someday in

1:11:06the future when everyone realizes the

1:11:10truth of this premise and if everybody

1:11:14realizes the truth of this premise then

1:11:16we will be living in a world of peace

1:11:18and harmony and done it often comes down

1:11:21to one phrase on both either any of 50

1:11:23different sides you can almost always in

1:11:25America today boil it down to one

1:11:27statement which is I want people to be

1:11:29free and it's amazing how often that

1:11:32line could be subsumed in the rhetoric

1:11:34of pretty much anybody and it kind of

1:11:36makes sense but there's nobody there's

1:11:38no George Lincoln Rockwell there's not

1:11:40that many people out there that actually

1:11:41want America to be fascist even people

1:11:44you know the people who are saying i

1:11:45don't want to spend money for more than

1:11:47highways and defense or whatever like if

1:11:50you're also a hardcore libertarian boys

1:11:53principal zero of that is I want people

1:11:55to be free

1:11:56I want me to be free right and the panel

1:11:59who want to say well let's have

1:12:00scholarships for people they want people

1:12:02to be free because they're saying in the

1:12:04past this is not worked out these people

1:12:05have not even had a chance to come to

1:12:06the table that's gonna help them be free

1:12:08but there's nobody there almost nobody

1:12:10out there who thinks that what they're

1:12:11doing is making people less free and the

1:12:14and the and so the so the problem is

1:12:16that every one of those scenarios

1:12:17involves wanting everybody to be free

1:12:21and all we have to do to accomplish that

1:12:23is just that everyone not be free in

1:12:27this one small way which is that we all

1:12:28agree on cheese

1:12:31and and if everybody would just get in

1:12:35line about this one thing that we could

1:12:37all be free and ultimately that is why

1:12:40every single ideology is true because if

1:12:45we all agreed on anything then yes we

1:12:50would be in we would be able to create a

1:12:54socialist workers paradise or a

1:12:57libertarian free-market paradise or a

1:13:00you know uh a white homeland and I De

1:13:03Niro it gets so narrow it's like a no-no

1:13:06engineer would take somebody seriously

1:13:08if they said we want to this jet will

1:13:11fly super far as long as it doesn't have

1:13:13to carry a bunch of heavy fuel

1:13:14yeah right exactly know how we need to

1:13:16re-engineer these other points of this

1:13:19is not going to change one factor about

1:13:20anything without changing everything

1:13:22else about the entire project so with

1:13:24bullying the premise seems to be we need

1:13:27to eradicate bullying when really the

1:13:30question is how do you make a good world

1:13:33where there's always going to be two

1:13:37percent bullies like yes you could make

1:13:41a perfect world if you eliminated

1:13:43bullies but there are always going to be

1:13:45two percent bullies and so how do you

1:13:49minimize the creation of bullies and the

1:13:50impact of their behavior

1:13:52yeah and and at what happens with

1:13:53bullying is that it is that there's the

1:13:56bully is the bad guy right but there are

1:13:58the five friends that maybe would be

1:14:01maybe would be off making projects with

1:14:04construction paper but somehow if when

1:14:07bullying is ok those five friends jump

1:14:10on the bandwagon every and die exactly

1:14:12it

1:14:14it's what you're talking about you

1:14:15wanted you want to get those three

1:14:16friends that maybe follow the guy if

1:14:21he's bullying but also would follow

1:14:22somebody if they were dancing and you

1:14:24want to say like don't follow the below

1:14:26fully follow the dancer like that's the

1:14:29that's the culture that we're trying to

1:14:32create what is that culture created by

1:14:35putting posters up in the in the coffee

1:14:37room

1:14:38no it's not apple seeds i don't think

1:14:40people almost ever see themselves in

1:14:43those things make it basically selfish

1:14:45the American thing part of our the

1:14:46American experiment that I don't think

1:14:48we see ourselves in signs

1:14:51no we see otherwise the other people who

1:14:54are rightly or wrongly being accused of

1:14:56making things worse for us

1:14:57yeah if the sign said if the sign said

1:15:00it has been four days since someone

1:15:02named Merlin smoked a cigar in this park

1:15:04you would look at that sign and you'd be

1:15:06like huh that's interesting i wonder how

1:15:08many Merlin's there are smoking cigars

1:15:09in this part of hazardous get your dicks

1:15:11those dicks as you let up a cigar in the

1:15:13park

1:15:14no we never see ourselves in science

1:15:15because that's not that because the

1:15:17challenge of creating a world of human

1:15:21beings is to not think about a utopia

1:15:26the challenge is to is to treat every

1:15:29situation individually and to do the

1:15:32difficult work of you know if if we if

1:15:35everybody practice no child left behind

1:15:38the schools would be producing geniuses

1:15:41but the problem is it's a utopian idea

1:15:43it doesn't work because you can't apply

1:15:45it you can't have one textbook that

1:15:47works in every school in the country you

1:15:49can't have one premise about bullying

1:15:52every single kid is different and that

1:15:55is impossible it's impossibly hard to

1:15:58create a uniform culture and this I this

1:16:04attempt to impose like a super structure

1:16:07and say everybody is the same we are all

1:16:11the end this is true of us all in in the

1:16:15pursuit of a utopia a utopian end where

1:16:19if we can we can eradicate this then we

1:16:22will all be living in the light and it's

1:16:24just it's it's the it's the way in which

1:16:27every ideology is exactly the same as

1:16:29every other one and they all are you

1:16:33know they all crash on the rocks as soon

1:16:37as they encounter one person who doesn't

1:16:39want to go to doesn't want to go along

1:16:41and I am that person

1:16:45I do not want to go and I and so I'm

1:16:50getting off the internet

1:16:51yeah or or I'm you know or I'm gonna

1:16:55definitely curate the topics of any

1:16:57public discussion i have a little bit

1:17:00better so that I am exist your farewell

1:17:04to the Troops so that I am dealing

1:17:06exclusively with caps and twerking and

1:17:11and a sympathetic judge and a

1:17:14sympathetic fellow and not at all with

1:17:17that you know with whatever the the the

1:17:20hot-button issues are right now where

1:17:22people are trying to you know work bored

1:17:24where social engineering where that

1:17:26where the diamond tip of social

1:17:28engineering is is etching its groove in

1:17:32our in our cultural moment you know I

1:17:34don't believe that it works unless it's

1:17:42super train in which case it absolutely

1:17:44works but has to work function

1:17:46it's not like an optional the

1:17:48traditional third anniversary gift is

1:17:50leather series so I was thinking of

1:17:53getting some chaps I'm a gun belt you

1:17:57might look good with a gun belt several

1:17:58times i have been in a situation where

1:18:00there have been chaps available to me

1:18:03really yeah classic and at whole havin

1:18:07ass exposing chaps they're one of the

1:18:10great moments for me and a thrift store

1:18:12was in this in the little cowboy town of

1:18:16Monroe Washington I was dating a girl at

1:18:19the time who was very like a she was a

1:18:22well she was a Firedancer that was her

1:18:25job a a naked Firedancer to be specific

1:18:30Wow and she had a lot of tattoos and she

1:18:33was very exotic and beautiful girl and I

1:18:37was dating her at the time and I was in

1:18:38monroe and i found in a thrift store

1:18:42they're a pair of white fringed chaps in

1:18:48a petite size so brother and I bought

1:18:53them for her

1:18:54and they were spectacular oh my any fit

1:18:58if they fit her perfect she wanted to

1:19:00wear them and she did want to wear them

1:19:02oh my god and we want to honor my friend

1:19:05I really did and I you know I won't say

1:19:07anymore about it except that it was a it

1:19:10was a great man how many of those are

1:19:11there even in the world and that i

1:19:13should find them and that they should

1:19:14fit and that she would like them and I

1:19:17so kinky Cinderella yeah it really was

1:19:19it was the glass slipper of our

1:19:21relationship and so after that I was

1:19:26like well maybe I should have some

1:19:28chance haha and I I think you hit a new

1:19:33journey vika I and I am and I've had

1:19:37several chaps come my way and the

1:19:41problem is that what that um that when i

1:19:46wear chaps it is just like I am

1:19:50reanimating the cow

1:19:58[Music]