Roderick on the Line

Ep. 120: "The Frog Leg King"

 

  this episode of rock on the line is [TS]

  sponsored by Squarespace the only one [TS]

  platform makes it fast and easy to [TS]

  create your own professional website [TS]

  portfolio and online store for your free [TS]

  trial plus ten percent off anything you [TS]

  by visit squarespace.com and enter the [TS]

  offer code supertrain at checkout a [TS]

  better web starts with your website [TS]

  hello hey John [TS]

  hi Merlin how's it going pretty good and [TS]

  everything's different [TS]

  yeah always a change i don't so [TS]

  different right now everything's [TS]

  different yeah you know it's like [TS]

  Heraclitus says you can never dip your [TS]

  foot into the same skype [TS]

  mm-hmm if you sit on the bridge and [TS]

  watch the skype go buy it will always be [TS]

  a new skype well and yet it's and yet [TS]

  it's always the same skype [TS]

  by the time I see a cloud that looks [TS]

  like something and I call my daughter [TS]

  over it doesn't look like that anymore [TS]

  you know that it's been so long since I [TS]

  looked up at a cloud and saw a dog or [TS]

  talk or whatever it is like I don't I [TS]

  had that i have not had that experience [TS]

  in a long time and I think it might be [TS]

  that the clouds in Seattle first of all [TS]

  these guys are always blue and see all [TS]

  the bliss guys ever seen if memory [TS]

  serves our internet that's right that's [TS]

  right but the living room / actually [TS]

  into seattle who carried along [TS]

  yeah I'm sure period comma been to [TS]

  everywhere he traveled a lot [TS]

  you know those guys that generation of [TS]

  guys there banging showgirls to a time [TS]

  what time what do i wear but uh but when [TS]

  there are clouds here they don't look [TS]

  like anything they just look like they [TS]

  look like film on a soup [TS]

  yeah this is the time of year the really [TS]

  depressing time here in San Francisco [TS]

  where we just have one continuous cloud [TS]

  that's called the weather [TS]

  yeah and as far as you know it goes to [TS]

  japan yeah as far as you know it just it [TS]

  starts at your house and it goes to [TS]

  japan [TS]

  yeah it's a super SuperDuper weird innit [TS]

  we haven't talked again it's been a [TS]

  while we had a little love little by [TS]

  period you've been traveling a lot and [TS]

  and I got some things on a card here i [TS]

  want to ask you about I want to go for [TS]

  things on a car was gonna toss these out [TS]

  and it's a little bit old school like [TS]

  that fever [TS]

  I've got your office on about your fever [TS]

  your office your assistance if you want [TS]

  to talk about it and all the President's [TS]

  Men okay in that order [TS]

  todd you know you can ask the last one [TS]

  first if you want how you were you were [TS]

  you were down so I had a very strange [TS]

  fever so you know a fever that uh that I [TS]

  could not account for and now in [TS]

  retrospect i do feel like i had i do [TS]

  feel like i had an unusual um illness [TS]

  but it coincided with four very hot days [TS]

  know so i was i was tossing around [TS]

  feverish and you know just the like that [TS]

  thing you get in the night where you [TS]

  wake up and you just your whole bed is [TS]

  just a us a puddle [TS]

  yeah you're like there's no way I could [TS]

  get comfortable but I don't want to go [TS]

  anywhere else because I'm just gonna [TS]

  ruin whatever that is [TS]

  yeah but then of course it's also like [TS]

  85 degrees at night and a and so that [TS]

  explains some of it but what what the [TS]

  problem is is that since I stopped [TS]

  eating gluten uh all of my normal like [TS]

  like measurements of illness have to [TS]

  change because i used to get you know [TS]

  these terrible sinus infections and [TS]

  since I stopped eating gluten i have not [TS]

  had a single sinus infection Wow [TS]

  and so I'm i have that i have this flu [TS]

  basically is probably what it was some [TS]

  kind of you know some mild bird flew [TS]

  over small bird a small breasts yeah [TS]

  just like actually chickadee birdie or [TS]

  yeah a goldfinch you know your [TS]

  adventures are the washington state bird [TS]

  goldfinch writing that down it didn't [TS]

  have that goldfinch um but but but so i [TS]

  have this sickness and i'm waiting for [TS]

  it to develop secondary symptoms i'm [TS]

  waiting to sit with my head all clogged [TS]

  and coughing up big you know Esther's [TS]

  and just like terrible cold and it and [TS]

  it never met estate sizes into my normal [TS]

  cold [TS]

  and so you know i know from colds i know [TS]

  a lot of cold the and so I sit there and [TS]

  I'm like what kind of illness is this [TS]

  this isn't it this is this is like in [TS]

  one sense terrible it hurts but in [TS]

  another sense it's not it's not [TS]

  producing any of the the next level like [TS]

  stuff where I'm really uncomfortable [TS]

  right and so anyway it's gone now and I [TS]

  and I did it [TS]

  vaya con Dios on to the next person but [TS]

  but you know you have to recalibrate [TS]

  it's a different bar now you you had [TS]

  just gotten used to this long slog of [TS]

  co-leaders used to get em fair amount of [TS]

  coals right i did i had a lot of colds [TS]

  yeah you know you you drive yourself [TS]

  pretty hard it's true but but [TS]

  so normally what would happen is i would [TS]

  have a I would have a five-day fever [TS]

  like that and then no matter what I did [TS]

  if I spent five days if I spent five [TS]

  days curled up in a rag toast and [TS]

  antibiotics at the end of five days [TS]

  no matter what happens no matter what [TS]

  else I could have I could spend 15 days [TS]

  sick and then at the end of that period [TS]

  then i would get a sinus infection and [TS]

  and a lung infection out and I would and [TS]

  then I would have to spend another you [TS]

  know eight to ten days clearing that out [TS]

  it just it just happened like clockwork [TS]

  so that so that it almost felt like when [TS]

  I got a cold [TS]

  I should just go run in the rain because [TS]

  no matter what i did i was going to get [TS]

  this next level of of illness as you get [TS]

  older you get used to that rhythm it's [TS]

  like when you realize you're getting [TS]

  stressed bump and you like bring it on [TS]

  yeah you know I don't want to wait you [TS]

  know I'm gonna pop this i'm not going to [TS]

  wait six days but this thing to be more [TS]

  lingering on my mouth covered my face [TS]

  with sores covered let's do this thing [TS]

  let's do it let's go but so now [TS]

  mmm he said that you sounded you sound [TS]

  very healthy inhale you know I my vital [TS]

  young guy in his in his early middle age [TS]

  now I mean I sometimes i have to get up [TS]

  five times at night to pee [TS]

  yeah but I was complaining about that [TS]

  the other day to my mom I was like I [TS]

  don't know i need i think i need to see [TS]

  a doctor haven't been to a doctor and a [TS]

  couple of years I think I should go and [TS]

  she's like why do you need to see a [TS]

  doctor [TS]

  that's exactly the kind of innovation [TS]

  and I like and I said you know what mom [TS]

  I'm a middle-aged guy middle-aged guys [TS]

  have to go to the doctor sometimes [TS]

  because because things happen to them [TS]

  and she was like a doctors are all back [TS]

  wax and I said seriously I you know I [TS]

  have to get up a lot of times in the [TS]

  night to pee and she said welcome to [TS]

  middle a shit and I was like oh god the [TS]

  process is started talking about health [TS]

  with people it's certainly talking about [TS]

  birth or like bad relationships [TS]

  everybody's got their like horror story [TS]

  about the person you know if he hadn't [TS]

  uh if I hadn't blown my boyfriend found [TS]

  his funny ball he never would have [TS]

  discovered he had cancer when he was 27 [TS]

  that late and like first of all I do not [TS]

  want to feel my balls i had two friends [TS]

  that totally got to stick you lurk [TS]

  answer in their twenties [TS]

  really oh yeah big day did they have [TS]

  their balls taking em well I think [TS]

  that's part of the process i think i was [TS]

  only one ball [TS]

  yeah that house that Hitler I'm not I've [TS]

  never said I don't know [TS]

  sure I'll have one more he and I don't [TS]

  go like to the locker rooms or anything [TS]

  the Sinai Hitler had only one big o [TS]

  Himmler had to but they were small no [TS]

  killer had something similar i need to [TS]

  go back to school but i'm gonna figure [TS]

  about you that I need more people like [TS]

  your mom around me just say listen leave [TS]

  it you do not need to go to those people [TS]

  well because you know i i'm also prone [TS]

  to I mean I don't Adam I don't want this [TS]

  show to turn into just some kind of show [TS]

  for the ladies but I am prone to moles [TS]

  to moles [TS]

  oh you know people tell you to worry [TS]

  about moles I got a little more over [TS]

  here I got a little moreover they watch [TS]

  your moles you get a chart you can [TS]

  measure them see if they have an uneven [TS]

  surface [TS]

  mhm so enjoy and we're supposed to worry [TS]

  about I've been getting moles my old [TS]

  life and every new girlfriend I would [TS]

  have would be like you didn't used to [TS]

  have this mole and i would say a pretty [TS]

  sure there was something there pretty [TS]

  sure was some kind of mobile a rapport [TS]

  and she was like yeah but it never [TS]

  looked like this before [TS]

  yeah I'd be like [TS]

  I'm pretty sure it looked like something [TS]

  like that before and she's like exactly [TS]

  that's the problem [TS]

  they're not supposed to change and so [TS]

  they would hustle me off to some doctor [TS]

  and I'd go sit in his lot of his office [TS]

  with my shirt off and he would look at [TS]

  the moles and go dad that's not a [TS]

  problem that's not a bad mole and i [TS]

  would say why don't you tell me what the [TS]

  bad balls look like so that I can [TS]

  reassure people and he would say well [TS]

  you know it's more it's kind of like [TS]

  it's kind of like Supreme Court [TS]

  definition of porn you know when you see [TS]

  it right and I'm like that's no no you [TS]

  know it when you see it so tell me what [TS]

  it is that this isn't some likes this [TS]

  isn't some Masonic ritual that you have [TS]

  to keep concealed from people [TS]

  he's going to get the business either [TS]

  way yeah give me the five points that i [TS]

  should be looking for his listicle on is [TS]

  77 surprising moles yeah you're not [TS]

  going to believe what metastasize next [TS]

  and he says well you don't you know if [TS]

  they change and I'm like well they don't [TS]

  they all change this one changed and you [TS]

  didn't have a problem he's like well [TS]

  they're uneven and I'm like there aren't [TS]

  even there there there moles can cut out [TS]

  there not fucking pie plates they're [TS]

  moles exchanged a change the change [TS]

  he's like well if there be if they're [TS]

  black you know these are dark enough and [TS]

  I was like oh I see it's a it's a [TS]

  pigment scale and then you know what I [TS]

  did then I just stopped giving a shit [TS]

  about it every one of my moles takes [TS]

  over then that will be my superpower [TS]

  yes i'll be the mole will be the man is [TS]

  already a moment but you came down [TS]

  here's the thing with doctors you know I [TS]

  feel like you're describing is perfectly [TS]

  because I feel like whatever sentence [TS]

  comes out of a doctor's mouth tacitly [TS]

  always ends with comma dummy that's not [TS]

  a mole dummy you get your moles checked [TS]

  dummy in bed in bed haha i feel this way [TS]

  about doctors and lawyers and that hall [TS]

  and make an appointment you gotta find [TS]

  parking [TS]

  there John there's always forms to fill [TS]

  out there was no many forms [TS]

  you don't have the time they send you to [TS]

  a different doctor it's like you know [TS]

  the story tell me the stories like well [TS]

  you should go see this guy ear nose and [TS]

  throat guy like ah now i gotta make [TS]

  another appointment [TS]

  it's like going to bestbuy and you think [TS]

  I fuck I gotta buy a USB cord and you go [TS]

  there like hmm yeah I could be USB cord [TS]

  but you should probably go to the apple [TS]

  store and you know they got to sing to [TS]

  the specialist and that's a whole thing [TS]

  and there and that this may be a part of [TS]

  this maybe part of the problem of who we [TS]

  are and our unchecked white privilege [TS]

  but i have never heard a thing come out [TS]

  of a doctor or a lawyer mouth but I [TS]

  didn't feel like yeah I knew that [TS]

  already [TS]

  and also I could have figured that out [TS]

  and about in about 20 minutes if I [TS]

  didn't if I hadn't come in here thinking [TS]

  that you were a magic source of her you [TS]

  know I mean like what's the answer to [TS]

  this problem [TS]

  oh hmm it's it's pretty much what I [TS]

  thought and we you know we imbue these [TS]

  people with magic powers because of [TS]

  their what three years in school I have [TS]

  fucking sandwiches in my refrigerator [TS]

  that are older than three years or less [TS]

  and three years in school as i get older [TS]

  as and I know you know this already i do [TS]

  not think that three years in school is [TS]

  that big of a deal [TS]

  they're also very young a lot of them so [TS]

  yeah I think of a doctor is being an [TS]

  old-ass man no privilege involved but [TS]

  I'm just saying when you meet people who [TS]

  are really young and they still and [TS]

  their sentences with a question [TS]

  myocardial infarction I had a doctor [TS]

  like that a doctor hulu get looked at me [TS]

  like well here's what the first thing I [TS]

  had a doctor who looked at me like he [TS]

  was afraid of me that's just setting a [TS]

  tone [TS]

  this episode of Roderick on the line is [TS]

  sponsored by our very good friends over [TS]

  at Squarespace you know Squarespace you [TS]

  should [TS]

  they're the only one platform that makes [TS]

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  know John and I have used square space [TS]

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  checkout our thanks to squarespace for [TS]

  supporting Roderick online we could not [TS]

  do without i do not want my doctor to be [TS]

  afraid of me and this guy with he was [TS]

  young he was small he had you know he [TS]

  had been to he i think he went to [TS]

  medical school in Guiana like I didn't [TS]

  there was nothing about it [TS]

  nothing went down there for a couple [TS]

  weeks and decided to just get an MD [TS]

  while he was there [TS]

  I'm sure he got I'm sure his MD is from [TS]

  a reputable school like the University [TS]

  of Pennsylvania mm but whatever it was [TS]

  it would they did not teach him in [TS]

  medical school not to like be visibly [TS]

  afraid of of your patients and so [TS]

  probably smaller they're the people you [TS]

  know what if they are not smaller in [TS]

  Pennsylvania out like down in Guyana if [TS]

  he was in the guyanese they're probably [TS]

  you know they're probably smaller they [TS]

  probably have more interesting [TS]

  constellations of moles they're not used [TS]

  to have a pair of a man like you [TS]

  that's right they're not used to submit [TS]

  and I mean honestly I did have a bowie [TS]

  knife sticking out of my side when I [TS]

  walked in so that was that me maybe [TS]

  intimidated him at first [TS]

  painting again st.martin arrow yeah yeah [TS]

  I got into I've got into a little little [TS]

  disagreement little fisticuffs with a [TS]

  guy down in front of the toyota [TS]

  dealership should've seen the other guy [TS]

  i can activate at my oil changed here so [TS]

  I was not like i would get my oil [TS]

  changed the toyota dealership that's [TS]

  another example of something you know [TS]

  you never take that part of the deal and [TS]

  you have changed here dummy [TS]

  my wife needs oil changed on our car and [TS]

  she's supposed to take it to the [TS]

  dealership right because they have the [TS]

  tension bored so they have the 10w30 [TS]

  point five or whatever up and everything [TS]

  done mounted by the way warranty if you [TS]

  don't fix the viscosity did you know [TS]

  that Volkswagens have a special [TS]

  quote-unquote auntie theft a nut on [TS]

  there on their wheels so you know you've [TS]

  got your you got your five or six bolts [TS]

  that hold your wheel on one of them you [TS]

  know the five of them are are a normal [TS]

  both that you can remove with a with a [TS]

  tire iron and one of them is a special [TS]

  star bolt and in order to remove it you [TS]

  have to have a special star a adapter [TS]

  what [TS]

  yeah and so I borrowed a Volkswagen [TS]

  actually a long time ago and you get a [TS]

  flat tire on one of these things nobody [TS]

  can change it even triple they can't [TS]

  help you [TS]

  wow if you don't have the star bolt [TS]

  which of course is the first thing that [TS]

  every box wagon owner loses right i mean [TS]

  how are you going to keep ahold of this [TS]

  little thing [TS]

  gosh and how it must be very very [TS]

  difficult to find a star bolt wrench [TS]

  well you can put a normal wrench into [TS]

  the star bolt just saying if you're if [TS]

  you're somebody who's really into [TS]

  stealing tires off of Volkswagens that [TS]

  sounds like something you'd want to get [TS]

  for your kit [TS]

  well oh ho here's the deal [TS]

  they make me this is why it's not so [TS]

  simple they make multiple different [TS]

  kinds of star bolt that's how they get [TS]

  you [TS]

  exactly so you is so if you go to the [TS]

  books by a dealership and say I need a [TS]

  star bolt wrench [TS]

  they're like what kind of startled you [TS]

  got [TS]

  and there's no way to know that you have [TS]

  to bring it into the place and show them [TS]

  and then they can go into their enormous [TS]

  been parts bit of startled fuck thinks [TS]

  that is a good idea is that really that [TS]

  much of a problem that you would [TS]

  introduce that much deliberate [TS]

  inconvenience to the consumer experience [TS]

  because I just say John clear mind our [TS]

  cars volkswagen it's a recent volkswagen [TS]

  so we probably have a star bolt that you [TS]

  have a star bolt or maybe they may be [TS]

  star bolts were only thing that they [TS]

  used from 90 to 99 or so I'm sure hope [TS]

  so but star bolts [TS]

  uh yeah yeah that's exactly the question [TS]

  I was like is this [TS]

  are we the Griswolds like off the road [TS]

  somewhere in Baltimore like who steals [TS]

  tires [TS]

  whoo-hoo anymore steals a wheel of a car [TS]

  that was the last time you saw a car up [TS]

  on blocks used to see them all the time [TS]

  well you know I'm not a physician John [TS]

  but and I don't have the demographic [TS]

  data in front of me but i would have to [TS]

  say i would rather have the prospect of [TS]

  some diligent persons potentially [TS]

  stealing a wheel than knowing that if [TS]

  we're on the side of freezing road we [TS]

  can't change my goddamn can change our [TS]

  got them tires are you know that was one [TS]

  of the major plot points not guess not [TS]

  major plot point but it was a minor plot [TS]

  point of Smokey and the Bandit right [TS]

  oh yeah i was just reading about smoking [TS]

  ban the other day [TS]

  yeah those kids pull over and they're [TS]

  they're taking the they're taking my [TS]

  wheels off of up the car they got left [TS]

  behind by after what happened something [TS]

  happened and they're stealing the wheels [TS]

  and then sheriff a p40 justice justice [TS]

  pulls up and give them and give them a [TS]

  good talking-to it was a real satisfying [TS]

  moment sumbitch up you're seeing that [TS]

  movie down like 40 v 0 where they take [TS]

  the squares out huh [TS]

  it's one of those ones like the big [TS]

  lebowski or glengarry glen ross the [TS]

  really is a joy to see on TBS is because [TS]

  it really it big lebowski I think they [TS]

  deliberately put in you know they change [TS]

  stuff like you know [TS]

  yeah this is what that this is what [TS]

  happens you know when you fuck someone [TS]

  the ass into this is what happens when [TS]

  you fuck a stranger in the alps haha i [TS]

  think that's the color is having a [TS]

  little fun with us but uh I was a you [TS]

  know our our good friend David Rees has [TS]

  at all right now God my daughter and I [TS]

  now argue over who has a bigger crush on [TS]

  him [TS]

  yeah that's 4sho I don't like to talk [TS]

  about media and media but I'm just [TS]

  telling you that that is a goddamn gift [TS]

  from heaven that show it's an amazing [TS]

  show [TS]

  I when he came he seemed like a perfect [TS]

  delight he is that he's the best and he [TS]

  appears on the show exactly as as he is [TS]

  that is how he is in normal times like [TS]

  it's clear it's clear from watching him [TS]

  that he's not putting on a thing like [TS]

  that so he really wants a better [TS]

  shoelace [TS]

  yes he does like a live but I spent last [TS]

  night looking at the internet at all of [TS]

  the people complaining that David said [TS]

  god damn there's nothing man you yeah I [TS]

  can't even believe if you've ever read [TS]

  get your war on I can't even believe how [TS]

  that guy's holding back on that show [TS]

  oh absolutely he is abby is with puppy [TS]

  is a profane motherfuckers like the [TS]

  father from Christmas Story I mean he he [TS]

  paints in rich tapestries of cursing but [TS]

  as the thumb as the as he was doing the [TS]

  paper airplane episode and he was like [TS]

  god damn he said something like that [TS]

  yeah [TS]

  and I and I swear to you there are [TS]

  dozens and dozens of people who are like [TS]

  I will never watch this program again i [TS]

  will know you know my kids I had to take [TS]

  my kids down into the basement and spray [TS]

  them with a fire hose for a half an hour [TS]

  to wash god damn out of their ears [TS]

  that's I'm kind of surprised because [TS]

  that is one that's one of those weird [TS]

  like corner cases that's one that really [TS]

  gets some people who could stand even [TS]

  some you know poopy vagina talk like and [TS]

  would not do not like to hear that one [TS]

  that one really grind some people skiers [TS]

  yeah it's a tough but it's it's it's [TS]

  their line in the sand right i mean you [TS]

  can say shit all day [TS]

  yeah but you take the Lord's name in [TS]

  vain that is one of the things that it [TS]

  says in the book noticing them but not [TS]

  did all the musical point as the musical [TS]

  you see the party whole see the party [TS]

  whole episode you know i miss the party [TS]

  whole episode I was a little bit you [TS]

  know whenever somebody has a party whole [TS]

  yeah and I'm not in it [TS]

  yeah I feel a little bit like oh okie [TS]

  dokie i watch your show right up to the [TS]

  party whole park [TS]

  ya know he designed himself it's it's [TS]

  it's quite a mission have you met him [TS]

  for I feel like I move in his circles [TS]

  somewhat but i don't think i've ever met [TS]

  him you see he's like why our friend mr. [TS]

  Hodgman you must have met him at some [TS]

  point well not only have i met him but [TS]

  he is so on the first jonathan coulton [TS]

  Cruz david and i had already met the [TS]

  first time we met was upstate [TS]

  Massachusetts somewhere in a undisclosed [TS]

  location but on the first on the first [TS]

  jonathan coulton Cruz David and I were [TS]

  both on the boat solo I had no I didn't [TS]

  bring anybody was pregnant and couldn't [TS]

  go on the boat [TS]

  oh my god I just I just I just said her [TS]

  name [TS]

  yeah i think yet we've done 200 episodes [TS]

  yeah um anyway so David and I get on the [TS]

  boat and he comes over he's like well I [TS]

  guess where crews wives and I was like [TS]

  Cruz wives and he's like yeah you gotta [TS]

  cruise wife or even aware at the time [TS]

  how much smarter it was to not bring [TS]

  anybody because I understand talking [TS]

  about numerous people that it's hard to [TS]

  know how much it's a good idea to not [TS]

  bring anybody see is no we were thrilled [TS]

  we were thrilled and we had the first [TS]

  cruise was a magical time for us because [TS]

  we went to Jamaica together we were like [TS]

  we're not going on the normal tour and [TS]

  we went off into the town and we like [TS]

  decided that we were going to find a [TS]

  restaurant that served like barbecued [TS]

  goat and we found some go and we had and [TS]

  we you know we like we we had a big [TS]

  adventure but and we went snorkeling [TS]

  both of us kind of for the first time in [TS]

  a long time and we're out snorkeling on [TS]

  and we went not in the area that were [TS]

  supposed to but in the off-limits area [TS]

  and then I look over at one point and [TS]

  david has taken off his swimsuit because [TS]

  he wanted to snorkel like a like his [TS]

  natural like fish self and so he's naked [TS]

  snorkeling around and I was like well I [TS]

  guess that's what we're doing so then I [TS]

  was naked snorkeling and we're just like [TS]

  this is the best how could how can we [TS]

  ever go back to the real world so so the [TS]

  first Joe Cruz was a was we were very [TS]

  close [TS]

  and then on subsequent Joe Cruz i [TS]

  started bringing my family and David [TS]

  started doing a thing which amazes me to [TS]

  this day each cruise he's brought one [TS]

  old friend from high school and each [TS]

  Cruz has been a different guy and every [TS]

  one of those guys has been an amazing [TS]

  weird Southern gothic and just sort of [TS]

  like nutcase but they're all amazing [TS]

  smart incredible sort of David rician [TS]

  type of people I've never met a guy who [TS]

  who knew as many nutty people as David [TS]

  Rees does although I guess that makes [TS]

  sense [TS]

  wow yeah you'd have to really think [TS]

  ahead plan ahead to do that I i'm still [TS]

  be like flustered over like trying to [TS]

  get the right tickets and the right [TS]

  luggage and stuff he's thinking ahead [TS]

  he's bringing people along he's bringing [TS]

  people from his past and the thing is [TS]

  that for me to bring five people that i [TS]

  knew from high school could you get five [TS]

  people answer the phone [TS]

  well and the thing what it implies is [TS]

  that he's still in close contact with [TS]

  all five of those guys they're all still [TS]

  is like type Rose that's either seems [TS]

  dishonest or sickening [TS]

  it's whatever it is it's unique in my [TS]

  experience yeah that that whole scene [TS]

  you know it's a little bit of a North [TS]

  Carolina think maybe okay yeah you know [TS]

  what I mean like a little bit of a [TS]

  minute mint julep type of NASCAR thing [TS]

  sure i can see you guys having a real [TS]

  like like I like crazy eighties montage [TS]

  because you both.you both like you know [TS]

  we're curious guys like trying out new [TS]

  stuff so on the last cruise we went [TS]

  again to jamaica and we decided we were [TS]

  going to find I we're going to scour the [TS]

  island until we found a record store [TS]

  that had super old weird reggae help [TS]

  ease and we spent a very hot long weird [TS]

  exhausting day and we did find a guy who [TS]

  had some cardboard boxes of old reggae [TS]

  albums which david probably overpaid for [TS]

  but we did buy a bunch of help ease some [TS]

  of them had to be washed off because [TS]

  they were covered with dirt and resin [TS]

  but they uh but he's you know that's [TS]

  part of that's part of his record [TS]

  collection now [TS]

  many props I like that guy is my god is [TS]

  good i'll make sure that you meet each [TS]

  other [TS]

  yeah he resembles something I made me [TS]

  feel really good you know whether one of [TS]

  these shows [TS]

  not very long ago we talked about some [TS]

  famous people and then there was a [TS]

  there's a little bit of like oh now [TS]

  Roderick on the line is just dropping [TS]

  names what you said that out some kid on [TS]

  the internet now we're dropping names [TS]

  now after always usually yeah talking [TS]

  about Pete Rose yeah after all after all [TS]

  this time there are still we can still [TS]

  surprise people John a you know I don't [TS]

  even like to address these kinds of [TS]

  things but you are you move in the [TS]

  corridors of power at many many levels [TS]

  in many many corridors and i just can't [TS]

  believe the restraint restraint that you [TS]

  show you know well imagine if you had [TS]

  not told us about that that that that [TS]

  dinner you want to with your dad [TS]

  yeah we're doing the can-can yeah and [TS]

  take some name-dropping the boy that's [TS]

  real memorable to me [TS]

  yeah you wouldn't you wouldn't know that [TS]

  such a thing existed until he also [TS]

  talked a lot about people that nobody [TS]

  knows so I think you balance it out [TS]

  yeah yeah well the thing is I could have [TS]

  we could have done to show two months [TS]

  ago I could have talked about David Rees [TS]

  nobody would have known who the fuck [TS]

  you're talking about now talking about [TS]

  to go noble now he's a famous guy and [TS]

  he's right he's just finally famous [TS]

  uh-huh [TS]

  because he's one of the people this is a [TS]

  rare example of somebody who got famous [TS]

  who should have been famous all along [TS]

  yeah fucking people you know I mean I [TS]

  don't know exactly what you're saying [TS]

  it's exhausting John fucking people try [TS]

  to keep an open mind [TS]

  also your fever is doing better David [TS]

  reason should watch the party whole [TS]

  party whole one is interesting because I [TS]

  mean obviously it's like edited and [TS]

  stuff out of sequence but you know what [TS]

  i'm talking about this who cares but if [TS]

  I think it's the first one was something [TS]

  genuinely went tits up with the [TS]

  operation and it makes it even funnier [TS]

  you can get is a cameo from jonathan [TS]

  coulton is so that's right for someone [TS]

  that we now our good friend Joe code [TS]

  that we talked about we talked about [TS]

  quite a bit i think it proper children I [TS]

  think that'll look there's some children [TS]

  he has with him but i think they may be [TS]

  loners was right he think they're they [TS]

  came from most likely to protect his [TS]

  kids from the the harsh i have the [TS]

  public he does and yet as [TS]

  all know the the uh you know the [TS]

  whatever that little piece of gauze is [TS]

  between our private lives in our public [TS]

  lives yeah that God is on fire Merlin oh [TS]

  what happened oh the gods is on fire is [TS]

  all that's happening we are not going to [TS]

  be able to write separate our public and [TS]

  private lives for very much longer [TS]

  yeah yeah I it's all just an Amazon [TS]

  algorithm for for how for what we want [TS]

  to buy em my kid is going to be just [TS]

  another thing it's just me another face [TS]

  that pops up on my computer sometimes [TS]

  saying hey your kid would like some food [TS]

  today [TS]

  fuck you computer have you fed have you [TS]

  fed this darling child today we think [TS]

  you may like the bars tidy bars would [TS]

  you like to friend would you like to [TS]

  frenzy bars [TS]

  hello would you like to increase your [TS]

  level of engagement with Z bars [TS]

  ok so we're doing when I go to look at I [TS]

  think this is the thing you do I think I [TS]

  don't know I i sometimes if somebody [TS]

  says something really awful or something [TS]

  I gotta talk to you about sometimes [TS]

  somebody will say something really [TS]

  bananas to me on Twitter it doesn't [TS]

  happen that much but I'll go and so what [TS]

  do i do I don't get mad I go I go and I [TS]

  just I think I think I always assume i [TS]

  don't get the reference is my fresh [TS]

  think so you search the person you like [TS]

  cause the people that I engage with on [TS]

  Twitter actually like pretty nice pretty [TS]

  nice people and occasionally i'll get [TS]

  one from real out of left field and then [TS]

  i'll go and look at the thing and i'll [TS]

  see if there's URL i'll see if there's a [TS]

  picture that's not something from the OC [TS]

  or something and and yeah and then I [TS]

  realized that they do things like follow [TS]

  airlines they follow they follow like [TS]

  celebrities like people who obviously [TS]

  like have somebody there on their behalf [TS]

  tuning for them i shouldn't say this I [TS]

  you know what I really shouldn't say [TS]

  this and I got don't say this i got a [TS]

  weird at response [TS]

  to a tooth that's probably two or three [TS]

  years old haha so big but usually once I [TS]

  guess I'm they're going back in the [TS]

  archives i think the only reason i don't [TS]

  even know this person knows that they [TS]

  kind of know me but it was in response [TS]

  to something that your friend Sean said [TS]

  okay and it's a certain superfan from [TS]

  the seatac area that you remember from [TS]

  the long winters board days [TS]

  ok alright ma i'm with you and I read [TS]

  her entire timeline for the last two [TS]

  years [TS]

  what does each one nice i woke up I saw [TS]

  that I followed through the ever do that [TS]

  you ever go back and just read like two [TS]

  years of bananas [TS]

  I i have done man I have to say I I you [TS]

  know because i like i love people the [TS]

  same whether you do your kind of gentle [TS]

  anthropologist something and I want to [TS]

  see what is making people talk i want to [TS]

  see you know sometimes you learn a lot [TS]

  about the center by looking at the wings [TS]

  absolutely Heraclitus said you can never [TS]

  never dip your toe into the same crazy [TS]

  person twice [TS]

  that's exactly right I'll and the thing [TS]

  is that you know it's not a coincidence [TS]

  i was just recently reading her clients [TS]

  is that right yeah but it but not to not [TS]

  to digress i love to go back into and a [TS]

  lot of times before I follow somebody [TS]

  i'll just go read their last year just I [TS]

  wish I started doing that a very long [TS]

  time ago [TS]

  yeah yeah just a really good idea to do [TS]

  that you had a couple of funny tweets [TS]

  there and then you go back and you're [TS]

  like all you tweet about doritos all the [TS]

  time [TS]

  no well broken hard drives and Fox News [TS]

  and you're like that [TS]

  yeah so anyway so you have this you you [TS]

  want you deep dive on a deep dive on a [TS]

  dingaling tell you any more about it [TS]

  later better really brought back some [TS]

  memories of the old days and and the [TS]

  thing is if you go back and re-read [TS]

  somebody's monkey balls timeline you get [TS]

  a sense how this path and pretty much [TS]

  this person goes them all every day and [TS]

  takes a picture of him or herself [TS]

  yes that isn't that you know what and [TS]

  and when they are 60 and we are 60 [TS]

  they're going to have those pictures of [TS]

  themselves and we're not [TS]

  it's so true i take like i take i used [TS]

  to take 150 photos of my daughter a day [TS]

  and I get like one a quarter [TS]

  yeah we'll look at the camera so it's [TS]

  her like in motion turning away on a [TS]

  swing set or something [TS]

  well but this is the did this is the [TS]

  thing in our culture the people who do [TS]

  the same thing every day for a long time [TS]

  sometimes r plucked out by the culture [TS]

  and identified as like the the true [TS]

  geniuses of our time you know that the [TS]

  people better like I've been cooking [TS]

  frog legs every day for 25 years and you [TS]

  know and then around their head [TS]

  this graphic appears the frog leg King [TS]

  ba and you know and all of a sudden he's [TS]

  the frog leg king and people are flying [TS]

  in from around the world to taste his [TS]

  amazing frog legs and it's like well [TS]

  really that we should be concerned about [TS]

  this guy he's been doing nothing but [TS]

  cooking products for 25 years like that [TS]

  seems like a failure of the imagination [TS]

  but no he's the fucking frog late king [TS]

  he gotta walk spot account yeah he [TS]

  almost got on jimmy kimmel yeah so you [TS]

  know so you go to the mall every day you [TS]

  take a picture yourself in the in the in [TS]

  your reflection in the front window of a [TS]

  hot topic 25 years from now it seems [TS]

  like you are [TS]

  I mean you're the terry richardson of [TS]

  your time whenever you're some genius [TS]

  like art photographer that had a weird [TS]

  picadillo I did you used to seem so much [TS]

  weirder and not something people do all [TS]

  the time thinking of I think i read this [TS]

  in Harper's man heard on this american [TS]

  life but it's probably 10 years ago [TS]

  remember the story about the guy who [TS]

  documented everything that happens an [TS]

  old guy don't you and everything he [TS]

  weighed the paper the newspaper every [TS]

  day he comes all the stickers from the [TS]

  meat that he bought the started this is [TS]

  talking about [TS]

  yes it does a fascinating story and now [TS]

  basically that's what everybody does [TS]

  that's pinterest yeah that's like you [TS]

  know am I i had a great p.m. here is [TS]

  what's hot topic around a doctor who [TS]

  shirts I got an orange julius here's a [TS]

  photo of me having more choices [TS]

  well you know and I prevision this [TS]

  Merlin all the way back in the early [TS]

  nineties when i said when i say when i [TS]

  saw the I saw the storm clouds on the [TS]

  horizon and a little Mexican boy came [TS]

  and took a thoughtful photograph a [TS]

  Polaroid of me and handed it to me and [TS]

  that is how my son the leader of the [TS]

  revolution is able to identify me when [TS]

  he comes back in time [TS]

  oh that's so smart i know but leaving [TS]

  that aside [TS]

  yeah I remember thinking that there was [TS]

  going to be step is going to be some [TS]

  that that in effect the sum total of [TS]

  human knowledge was only going to be [TS]

  valuable [TS]

  insofar as we were able to collect it [TS]

  and sort of and so we have had this [TS]

  sense in the in the nineteen eighties [TS]

  are in the early nineties that there was [TS]

  this it was it was kind of a comparative [TS]

  religion a notion that like well if we [TS]

  could if we put all the religious texts [TS]

  throughout history next to each other [TS]

  and were able to look at them in three [TS]

  dimensions and we just pick out all the [TS]

  similarities and we figure out what the [TS]

  differences are and how they relate to [TS]

  one another then there should be some [TS]

  like some herb body of knowledge is it [TS]

  there would be patterns that clearly [TS]

  emerged like hey here's a here's being [TS]

  nice to each other that tends to work [TS]

  out right and so and maybe we would have [TS]

  maybe then we would have another [TS]

  dimension of insight into religion or [TS]

  what it's that out where it comes from [TS]

  why it's there [TS]

  what it means maybe there's a maybe [TS]

  there's a a tenth religion out there [TS]

  that is actually the the combined [TS]

  tenants of all religions and and you [TS]

  know that comparative religion impulse [TS]

  extends to like that the idea that well [TS]

  we have a tremendous body of knowledge [TS]

  all the libraries of the world all of [TS]

  the all of the oral accounts all of the [TS]

  other novels and this sum total of human [TS]

  knowledge and experience if there was a [TS]

  way to collect it and sort it [TS]

  what would we know what would we know [TS]

  net what we know better and what would [TS]

  we do with that information I remember [TS]

  in the early nineties thinking that this [TS]

  was the in some ways the future it was [TS]

  going to be [TS]

  we just needed to develop the technology [TS]

  to bind and sort this you know this kind [TS]

  of like a dimensionless cloud of [TS]

  information and we're doing it now and [TS]

  what it turns out is its digital [TS]

  scrapbooks of how much the newspaper [TS]

  ways and and every collected meet [TS]

  sticker from every piece in every [TS]

  package of hamburger you buy and it [TS]

  turns out that the collected some of all [TS]

  human knowledge is just like a busy [TS]

  signal [TS]

  it's just it's just it's just [TS]

  oh man thats dark because because all [TS]

  the meat stickers [TS]

  there are a lot more people collecting [TS]

  meet stickers then there are comparing [TS]

  Heraclitus to a to Augustine and the [TS]

  very few people who are comparing [TS]

  Heraclitus to Augustine are sewed are so [TS]

  drowned out by the meat stickers that [TS]

  that ultimately there there is no I I [TS]

  feel like maybe maybe the the high [TS]

  knowledge and the low knowledge do [TS]

  actually cancel each other out there is [TS]

  no well I do not prefer anymore [TS]

  the PM the high knowledge because [TS]

  because I just him but like them to meet [TS]

  sticker scrapbooks are just rising up in [TS]

  the room i feel like i'm in the trash [TS]

  compactor and star wars and it's just [TS]

  it's just it needs to sell everything [TS]

  meatstick her login and then then then [TS]

  here floats by this little you know this [TS]

  little bottle cap and inside the bottle [TS]

  cap is like Oh have you ever noticed [TS]

  that that that Augustine Aristotle and [TS]

  Heraclitus all said this and my cough [TS]

  what I'm and it just floats by its eaten [TS]

  by a it's eaten by a compactor monster [TS]

  the yeah that's good because it seems [TS]

  like there's so much stuff not to harp [TS]

  on them the medical stuff that it seems [TS]

  like at this point you should be able to [TS]

  like walk into a box like kind of almost [TS]

  like an MRI or a tsa scanner it seems [TS]

  like we should be at the point now where [TS]

  you walk into a little box with your [TS]

  clothes on even and in like three [TS]

  seconds it tells you probably what's [TS]

  wrong with you and a couple things that [TS]

  might be and then you do a couple [TS]

  testing you now is that not the case [TS]

  it's really feels like that kit with [TS]

  would be how it works so you're talking [TS]

  about religion but you think about [TS]

  anything over the past however many [TS]

  centuries or millennia like if you had [TS]

  enough data over time in context with [TS]

  trendlines it seems like they're so [TS]

  much interesting stuff that you could [TS]

  figure out about it sometimes that [TS]

  surfaces as like an infographic on [TS]

  somebody's blog or something but you're [TS]

  absolutely right it reminds me directly [TS]

  of like the days after 911 when they're [TS]

  saying let you know the problem is not [TS]

  collecting this intelligence we've got a [TS]

  lot of intelligence we just don't have [TS]

  any way to analyze right the the huge [TS]

  with her so much noise and all of this [TS]

  it's even been missing it a little stuff [TS]

  that comes along so what we do we got [TS]

  more and more information now but this [TS]

  is why this is why do you remember in [TS]

  the movie russia house starring sean [TS]

  connery no i don't have you seen the [TS]

  movie russia house starring sean connery [TS]

  in out the movie russia house Connery [TS]

  with Sean Connery and michelle pfeiffer [TS]

  king and roy scheider um is one of those [TS]

  what would it be early nineties [TS]

  meditations on the end of the Soviet [TS]

  Union's a cold war thriller [TS]

  it's a cold war thriller that's exactly [TS]

  right circa hunt for red october in [TS]

  which sean connery plays a reluctant [TS]

  alcoholic book editor consider myself [TS]

  for like an alcoholic [TS]

  yeah well he's a reluctant alcohol he's [TS]

  a he's enthusiastic alcoholic a [TS]

  reluctant spy let's call him a [TS]

  reluctance by anyway not to give too [TS]

  much of the point away but there is [TS]

  there's a there's a scene in the film [TS]

  for several scenes I guess where Roy [TS]

  Scheider as a sort of CIA up you know [TS]

  high mucky-muck is running an operation [TS]

  from a clean room within some CIA [TS]

  operational headquarters and they are [TS]

  you know they're they're monitoring the [TS]

  situation and there's a guy in that's [TS]

  kind of a cold war trope who is a sort [TS]

  of great wild-haired gray-haired older [TS]

  clearly homosexual but not but but [TS]

  everybody is pretending that he's not [TS]

  because he's such a genius a kind of [TS]

  Benchley park [TS]

  CIA g like flamboyant genius you know [TS]

  what I mean this is like that this is [TS]

  this is one of these ideas that you have [TS]

  about the CIA that's somewhere somewhere [TS]

  deep in there there are these guys who [TS]

  are kind of a who are so far off the [TS]

  reservation but so genius right you get [TS]

  your like John Nash Glenn Gould misfits [TS]

  of science mutant types exactly super [TS]

  super interesting to keep in the [TS]

  basement though you know PR reasons [TS]

  yeah keep them in the basement but but [TS]

  like the day and they're allowed to walk [TS]

  around the CIA in a kimono with like a [TS]

  with the like a Indian headdress on look [TS]

  like because like the boyfriend Chris [TS]

  Sarandon in a dog day afternoon [TS]

  yes because because when it's time to [TS]

  process the reams and reams of [TS]

  information they have what amounts to an [TS]

  artistic insight that cuts through the [TS]

  cuts through the noise right and the [TS]

  problem that I see with the American [TS]

  intelligence community and the problem [TS]

  that we have in all of these like [TS]

  massive data dump scenarios is that we [TS]

  have simultaneously culturally [TS]

  eliminated the the Hiawatha's from the [TS]

  process right the CIA no longer hires [TS]

  presumably people who are Hiawatha's [TS]

  they are only looking for the kind of [TS]

  like middlebrow best and brightest the [TS]

  people that can get into Yale the people [TS]

  that that score off the chart people's [TS]

  good great good credit who aren't gonna [TS]

  be compromised right and so so they're [TS]

  trying to they're like we had all this [TS]

  information we just didn't have the [TS]

  people to process it and what they're [TS]

  missing and what all what all of [TS]

  data-driven culture is missing are the [TS]

  the key people who do not who are able [TS]

  to see artistically they're able to look [TS]

  at data artistically and say you know [TS]

  what you have all this data but we can [TS]

  eliminate eighty-five percent of it [TS]

  right now because it doesn't apply [TS]

  and everybody goes we'll wait a minute [TS]

  wait a minute wait a minute we got a [TS]

  filter and we gotta winch and that's [TS]

  just like nope you know what I can see [TS]

  this i can just take it easy patterns [TS]

  they can just see patterns they see [TS]

  through the clouds and they're like [TS]

  eighty-five percent of it doesn't matter [TS]

  because you know it's the it's the [TS]

  Hannibal Lecter thing it's like is this [TS]

  guy who's your killer is he going to be [TS]

  somebody that that you know that works a [TS]

  straight job or whatever you know just [TS]

  like sees the pattern and eliminates [TS]

  eighty-five percent of the data because [TS]

  it's because they know it's irrelevant i [TS]

  love that character and the and the and [TS]

  what we are not doing somehow in our [TS]

  culture and and in business and in in [TS]

  these like we have we have salt mines [TS]

  full of information and we're trying to [TS]

  we're trying to grind it you know we're [TS]

  trying to process it through this like [TS]

  this increasing granularity and oh my [TS]

  god week the only place that patterns [TS]

  are going to exist is in the most [TS]

  granular at the most granular level and [TS]

  we're not hiring Hiawatha's we're not [TS]

  hiring people that are just like flying [TS]

  over the top in a kimono for like making [TS]

  of a swoosh it and they say you know [TS]

  what here's the answer it was right here [TS]

  in front of you the whole time like I [TS]

  don't think that 911 was that hard to [TS]

  figure out if you just had I mean in the [TS]

  end it and even through retrospect it's [TS]

  not it [TS]

  he you can imagine one person sitting at [TS]

  their desk and saying you know what I [TS]

  think I see a pattern emerging and and [TS]

  yet that person was just like just [TS]

  shunted off into some storeroom [TS]

  somewhere because he didn't have the he [TS]

  didn't have the clearance to talk to the [TS]

  guy who had the other and other half of [TS]

  the information right now that's good if [TS]

  they want to do you want to keep it you [TS]

  know compartmentalised and I do not want [TS]

  to keep it compartmentalised United [TS]

  kimono floating over that i do and i [TS]

  think the secret i think the secret like [TS]

  the secret ghost squad of all of this is [TS]

  some and this is the this is the problem [TS]

  again with general ism like how do we [TS]

  train [TS]

  how do you train generalists in a way [TS]

  you don't but how do you recognize them [TS]

  and write and raise them up right right [TS]

  if your if your culture is designed to [TS]

  to celebrate the Frog Lake king and it's [TS]

  like well this guy's got seven phd's in [TS]

  frog legs [TS]

  how are you going to say that this guy [TS]

  over here who never even graduated from [TS]

  college has got more insight into the [TS]

  situation than the Frog Lake king and [TS]

  it's like well you know what the front [TS]

  like King is a fucking retard and and [TS]

  the fact that he has seven phd's is [TS]

  Islam is ludicrous and you should [TS]

  recognize that that mean that is a sign [TS]

  of his mental illness not a sign of his [TS]

  greatness but on the other hand think [TS]

  about it I feel like I heard something [TS]

  not too long on the radio about how [TS]

  people on the autism spectrum are I not [TS]

  having an easier time getting jobs of [TS]

  people are realizing that there are [TS]

  certain very special skills and people [TS]

  on the spectrum that are not as common [TS]

  you know in those generalists with right [TS]

  with the ties and that you know with a [TS]

  little bit of care and individual [TS]

  attention you can actually find jobs [TS]

  these folks are created when I went to [TS]

  mcdonalds everybody who worked breakfast [TS]

  in the morning at mcdonalds was an old [TS]

  lady it was not an old man it was not a [TS]

  young lady [TS]

  they're all old ladies and they had all [TS]

  been there for like ten years and you [TS]

  know what they showed up on time they [TS]

  did their shit their shit was tight and [TS]

  every morning breakfast ran like a top [TS]

  and McDonald's because there is this [TS]

  culture of all old ladies working [TS]

  mcdonalds and they all interacted well [TS]

  that sounds like a really like insipid [TS]

  example but you need the right person [TS]

  for the right job you know what somebody [TS]

  is going to be all low in there and if [TS]

  there is sometimes you know maybe you [TS]

  need somebody maybe not quite as John [TS]

  Nash but like but you need people who [TS]

  are able to come in and see patterns or [TS]

  have a drive toward a certain kind of [TS]

  curiosity that's a little bit outside [TS]

  the spectrum is a whole you know [TS]

  Einstein misquote about trying to solve [TS]

  the same problem by doing the same thing [TS]

  who's he you know that some folks like [TS]

  that somewhere like in maybe in Virginia [TS]

  I i feel like the I feel like the [TS]

  bureaucratic the cult of the cult of [TS]

  bureaucracy and the and the the miss [TS]

  identification of our culture now as a [TS]

  meritocracy hat as in a way smoked all [TS]

  those people out right because because [TS]

  what you're because what we're trying to [TS]

  do now where we're everywhere in America [TS]

  there is a there's an admissions process [TS]

  right everywhere there are more [TS]

  applications for any job than there are [TS]

  I'm sorry yeah they're way more [TS]

  potential applicants for any job then [TS]

  there are positions right and so [TS]

  everything in plenty and plenty of very [TS]

  generic blunt instrument metrics that [TS]

  allow you to put people through this [TS]

  rock tumbler so it only pebbles larger [TS]

  than this and smaller than that will fit [TS]

  the screen right so for instance I have [TS]

  a good friend who just went through just [TS]

  did 25 interviews for a job and the job [TS]

  was one of your computer mass jobs right [TS]

  webmaster chief web marketing Bob Bob [TS]

  some kind of web maths and like I know [TS]

  the job you know the job it's a job it's [TS]

  a it's a it's an actual job that has [TS]

  things that need to get done a certain [TS]

  amount of imagination needs to be [TS]

  employed to do the job well but that [TS]

  imagination is like this is this isn't a [TS]

  job where you're at Bletchley Park in [TS]

  you're trying to you're trying to crack [TS]

  the Enigma code [TS]

  this is a job or it's like here's here's [TS]

  what's going to happen pretty much we [TS]

  know this is the type of thing that's [TS]

  going to come in [TS]

  these are the types of ways that we're [TS]

  going to solve this problem here are the [TS]

  you know like with we're not going to [TS]

  we're not going to invent it with a [TS]

  medical scanner at this business because [TS]

  all we're trying to do is cellphone [TS]

  trees to banks and hospitals right but [TS]

  but in the 25 interviews that my friend [TS]

  went to she described innumerable [TS]

  examples of people coming in and sitting [TS]

  down and saying [TS]

  let's say you're in a sinking ship and [TS]

  all you have is an is a is one American [TS]

  nickel and a na uncooked bag of pasta [TS]

  and a drinking straw [TS]

  yeah how do you get out of the how do [TS]

  you get out of this situation and then [TS]

  that lean forward the guys like that [TS]

  this whole google influenced version of [TS]

  interviewing people and it's kinda like [TS]

  it's like an intellectual ropes course [TS]

  or something right where the question is [TS]

  meant to more than anything conveyed to [TS]

  the interviewee that the interviewer is [TS]

  a really smart hotshot person right and [TS]

  over and over and over again she's she's [TS]

  trying to fill these interview questions [TS]

  and at a certain point I had I you know [TS]

  she's talking to me and I I advised her [TS]

  like the way to answer that question is [TS]

  too lean equally forward and say this [TS]

  question is irrelevant to the [TS]

  performance of this job and in fact what [TS]

  the person that you want in this [TS]

  position is somebody who is going to [TS]

  consider all the evidence in in any [TS]

  given situation weight over time and [TS]

  make the best reasoned choice [TS]

  you do not want someone who is going to [TS]

  off-the-cuff shoot you some kind of [TS]

  answer that ties together the the nickel [TS]

  and the and the bag of pasta like you r [TS]

  into e by asking this question you are [TS]

  interviewing for a different job and in [TS]

  fact for a job that does not exist at [TS]

  your company you think you are in a [TS]

  different world then you're in and if [TS]

  you know and I I advised her probably [TS]

  probably that is the baby the wrong [TS]

  thing to say to somebody who's [TS]

  interviewing you for a job but but it's [TS]

  something that I felt very very [TS]

  passionately that in business culture [TS]

  now that's an example of people not [TS]

  recognizing where they are and thinking [TS]

  that they are somewhere very else and [TS]

  asking you know asking basically like [TS]

  stupid s80 questions because what they [TS]

  wish they were doing is working for [TS]

  google or they wish that you know they [TS]

  hope that by asking [TS]

  by trying to find a hiawatha everywhere [TS]

  all the time and yet only choosing a [TS]

  about then ending up only choosing the [TS]

  people that went to Princeton anyway [TS]

  because nobody can even that that person [TS]

  couldn't pick a good answer to that [TS]

  question if they tried you know what I [TS]

  mean like they asked the question and [TS]

  they don't even have the they don't even [TS]

  have the mental resources to know what a [TS]

  good answer to it is so no I don't feel [TS]

  like there are those geniuses anymore i [TS]

  feel like we all want those jeans I mean [TS]

  we are we're interviewing people as [TS]

  though you need to be that genius just [TS]

  to work at attachmate and you don't need [TS]

  to be that genius to work an attachment [TS]

  if that genius is working at attachment [TS]

  it's a net loss for everybody [TS]

  I got a very simple probably over simple [TS]

  theory that's your favorite TV show I [TS]

  think it's Kobayashi Maru I think you [TS]

  know the Kobayashi Maru scenario i have [TS]

  learned it from my several visits to [TS]

  comic-con but you know if you know the [TS]

  basic idea Curt cut through its a skull [TS]

  its a big spoiler it basically in your I [TS]

  don't quite understand how this works [TS]

  because it seems like as if they would [TS]

  tell other people about this but you go [TS]

  into a simulator to be the captain of [TS]

  the ship and you have a situation where [TS]

  you get a distress call from the ship [TS]

  called the Kobayashi Maru and you have [TS]

  to go through forgive me nerds out that [TS]

  Klingons but uh but you got basically in [TS]

  order to get to that stranded ship [TS]

  you're gonna have to go through like a [TS]

  dmz that you're pretty sure will provoke [TS]

  the baddies and so the question is you [TS]

  know what you decide to do and this [TS]

  spoiler of course is that no matter what [TS]

  you do the Kobayashi Maru will be [TS]

  destroyed your ship will be destroyed [TS]

  everybody no matter what you choose to [TS]

  do the Kobayashi Maru scenario dies ends [TS]

  with you dying your ship being destroyed [TS]

  and and so first of all what you learn [TS]

  is that the Kobayashi Maru is a test of [TS]

  your character [TS]

  it seems like it's a test of your [TS]

  decision making but it's really a test [TS]

  of your character to see how you react [TS]

  in an impossible situation and then of [TS]

  course as you know he's the apple we [TS]

  know that [TS]

  Kirk is the only one has ever passed [TS]

  because he cheated right he rewrites the [TS]

  encryption somehow that's right that's [TS]

  the way you be kobayashi memories by [TS]

  cheating and then of course you know us [TS]

  to go to go to space trial and stuff [TS]

  like that right because it revealed his [TS]

  character [TS]

  well I don't doubt that there are [TS]

  answers that that person has on a piece [TS]

  of paper but i think part of it is just [TS]

  seeing how you react to stuff like that [TS]

  don't you think that you think part of [TS]

  it would be like well here's the real [TS]

  wackadoodle situation show me your [TS]

  creativity and cool yeah but this is the [TS]

  but this is the problem [TS]

  how many of these jobs are creativity [TS]

  and cool needed [TS]

  okay i would say we maybe point zero one [TS]

  percent like you flatter yourselves [TS]

  interviewers to think that creativity [TS]

  and cool is the thing that you're [TS]

  looking for when in fact you're looking [TS]

  for someone who is like thoughtful [TS]

  confident [TS]

  uh but but you know but that this is [TS]

  that this is another thing like there [TS]

  are so many people out there who need a [TS]

  few minutes to think about it before [TS]

  they're going to come up with the [TS]

  solution right and we have eliminated a [TS]

  lot of those people from contention [TS]

  because for whatever reason we prize [TS]

  somebody's cool under fire internet [TS]

  maybe they just don't present well you [TS]

  know what it wasn't really that if they [TS]

  if they went home and spent the evening [TS]

  thinking about it they'd come back with [TS]

  an elegant solution that required you [TS]

  know in a way neither creativity nor a [TS]

  cool but like intelligence and a little [TS]

  work intelligence and work exactly like [TS]

  work and processing that does not fall [TS]

  into this magical like this is that this [TS]

  is this problem of like everybody's a [TS]

  fucking artist now because everybody's [TS]

  mom told them that they were an artist [TS]

  all the way through grade school and so [TS]

  we think that creativity is this thing [TS]

  that like that we need even in the [TS]

  business class and the reality is of a [TS]

  thousand people working at a company you [TS]

  need two of them to be creative and the [TS]

  rest of them need to be diligent only [TS]

  need to be they need to be able to get [TS]

  along with other people which is very [TS]

  hard to gauge right but what's on latex [TS]

  overlooks kill we're populating people [TS]

  were populated places with people who [TS]

  pass these dumb creativity tests and the [TS]

  reality is that most of them are [TS]

  creative so the dumb creativity test [TS]

  gets [TS]

  slightly you know gets mutated until [TS]

  enough people pass that's right the test [TS]

  the test up mutates to fulfill the curve [TS]

  and so now all of a sudden we have a [TS]

  different definition of creativity [TS]

  because well you know we needed we want [TS]

  forty percent of the people working here [TS]

  to be creative [TS]

  well guess what forty percent of the [TS]

  people in the world are creative and [TS]

  you're probably not going to get you're [TS]

  not going to cook skim the top forty [TS]

  percent off to come work at your at your [TS]

  software company that deals with a [TS]

  cellphone chase payphone trees right so [TS]

  so if you think that forty percent of [TS]

  the people working there creative you [TS]

  have gamed your own tests to think that [TS]

  that you're getting creative answers out [TS]

  of people when people is just giving you [TS]

  whatever fucking it you know like you [TS]

  you're not you are not actually [TS]

  measuring what you think you're [TS]

  measuring and the and this is the [TS]

  problem i think nationwide there is no [TS]

  in in a in a in a country that values [TS]

  creativity as highly as we do as we [TS]

  claim to do there actually is very [TS]

  there's maybe even less room for [TS]

  creative people now because creativity [TS]

  has been co-opted and systematized what [TS]

  we have what we call creativity [TS]

  this is yeah and so here I'm going to [TS]

  toss out a word i'm gonna use this word [TS]

  i think correctly for the first time its [TS]

  normative because if you think about [TS]

  remember when I very i think i have [TS]

  snapshots of this from my life feeling [TS]

  like somebody who what was a somewhat [TS]

  creative person who needed a chance and [TS]

  a little time to explain who didn't do [TS]

  well in those kinds of things but i [TS]

  remember hearing you know you remember [TS]

  all the stuff but you know the PSAT the [TS]

  s80 the acct like it was just even in [TS]

  nineteen eighty i graduated five it was [TS]

  so drilled into your head how critical [TS]

  those are and it was until a few years [TS]

  later that please [TS]

  this version i've heard is that the [TS]

  reason those tests are really important [TS]

  is that they look at those tests they [TS]

  look at your grades and you are going to [TS]

  look at stuff like you know you're at SA [TS]

  and things like that but there's a [TS]

  single reason that those test scores [TS]

  amount so much which is incredibly [TS]

  sensible but also incredibly depressing [TS]

  which is that there is [TS]

  of all the measurements that are out [TS]

  there there is one correlation that [TS]

  matters the correlation between people [TS]

  who do well on standardized College [TS]

  Admission Test and people who finished [TS]

  college in less than four years that [TS]

  correlation is extremely high sounds so [TS]

  obvious but think about that for just a [TS]

  second [TS]

  right like talk about fucking normative [TS]

  what that means is to like why you know [TS]

  what we just don't have the time and [TS]

  inclination or the resources to really [TS]

  find out who would blow the doors off of [TS]

  this place and what we've got here is we [TS]

  need to find people who are going to [TS]

  fail spectacularly in some ways that's [TS]

  what it means [TS]

  so like my nutty balls school like I had [TS]

  good acct scores i had a good essay but [TS]

  mostly they were like you know what [TS]

  youre five percenter you're like one of [TS]

  those people who were pretty sure it's [TS]

  going to bomb out before the end of the [TS]

  first semester but what the hell we have [TS]

  a certain amount in our budget to let in [TS]

  crazy people who might not work out in [TS]

  the end it did work out but it was I [TS]

  should not have been got I should not [TS]

  have gotten into the college that I got [TS]

  into because that's what that's what is [TS]

  there i got it again just quickly i got [TS]

  it again when I think was when i first [TS]

  went on unemployment in Florida like 95 [TS]

  I got fired from a job and I remember [TS]

  filling out that form or was I did [TS]

  something in California later but going [TS]

  through and filling out those forms is [TS]

  so depressing because it's so digital it [TS]

  really is like 15 stars write down your [TS]

  skill your skill does not match one of [TS]

  the things that you mean Microsoft Word [TS]

  ok microsoft word how many years have [TS]

  you done this how good are you is that [TS]

  you don't have to explain anything about [TS]

  like how you learn things fast you can [TS]

  take explain anything about like how you [TS]

  are sometimes good at figuring out a [TS]

  problem before it is a problem it's just [TS]

  I mean I know that's out there somewhere [TS]

  maybe that's what those kobayashi [TS]

  memories or four but it's so frustrating [TS]

  to me that like that data that we're [TS]

  talking about ends up getting used to [TS]

  get more no more more normative bell [TS]

  curve of of people who are unlikely to [TS]

  flame out spectacularly but may not even [TS]

  be the greatest that what they're doing [TS]

  and if you believe if you believed in a [TS]

  world where the world was being run by [TS]

  people who knew what they were what they [TS]

  were going for you could say like Oh [TS]

  were going for you could say like Oh [TS]

  ok this is one of of a hundred potential [TS]

  ways that you could run the world and [TS]

  it's i guess one that is equally valid [TS]

  like let's let's just let's just make a [TS]

  bell curve [TS]

  let's let's admit people into the most [TS]

  prestigious colleges that based on [TS]

  whether or not they're going to finish [TS]

  rather than whether or not they're [TS]

  really smart and then let's sort of a [TS]

  let's wait [TS]

  everything that happens in the culture [TS]

  according to this same sort of [TS]

  methodology so like if you go to [TS]

  Princeton then the doors are going to [TS]

  open for you the rest of your life and [TS]

  then work and you're going to keep [TS]

  getting things done so we're going to [TS]

  prise people who get things done and [TS]

  etcetera etcetera like if if if we [TS]

  believe that there were people up on top [TS]

  of the of the the space needle of our [TS]

  culture looking down and saying like [TS]

  here's how it is how it's designed and [TS]

  we know that we're losing people out of [TS]

  both ends of this machine but you have [TS]

  to pick away and so this is the way that [TS]

  we pick I would maybe even thinking this [TS]

  is the least destructive method we know [TS]

  of coming up with something not even [TS]

  efficient but something that's [TS]

  sustainable and doable [TS]

  yeah because ultimately people who get [TS]

  things done are more valuable than [TS]

  people who don't get things done so [TS]

  let's just say that you know but in fact [TS]

  there really aren't people sitting up on [TS]

  top of managing the system from the top [TS]

  down who know what they're doing like [TS]

  every one of these systems has kind of [TS]

  evolved just haphazardly and it is it is [TS]

  an accidental kind of hive up that has [TS]

  built where this is the byproduct of it [TS]

  and a lot of that is I think because [TS]

  prior to now we didn't have the [TS]

  technology to do it a different way [TS]

  really are i mean you know this is the [TS]

  technology has evolved at the same time [TS]

  that these systems have evolved and so [TS]

  it's all you know it's it's like a big [TS]

  ant hill that just keeps getting built [TS]

  and falling down and built and falling [TS]

  down but but [TS]

  we have now the ability to at least [TS]

  recognize that and and draw correlation [TS]

  between the fact that ok on the one hand [TS]

  we are increasingly producing a world of [TS]

  senior frogs and a world of like a frog [TS]

  they came [TS]

  well not only frog-leg kings but like [TS]

  everywhere you go now in America there's [TS]

  a senior frogs is that how you [TS]

  envisioned America evolving like in 1950 [TS]

  when you were thinking of flying cars [TS]

  did you really think that there would [TS]

  also be a senior frogs every in every [TS]

  beach town like was that the plan is [TS]

  this a plan like we are getting our [TS]

  culture is getting Dumber we are getting [TS]

  less interesting at an exponential rate [TS]

  we are privileged engaging we are [TS]

  privileged nging meas we are we are just [TS]

  sucking from the from the firehose of of [TS]

  idiocracy and it's because we have not [TS]

  adjusted or recalibrated our systems and [TS]

  this anthill is like our anthill is is [TS]

  starting to fall and the and the and [TS]

  part of that has to be the [TS]

  responsibility of the people that we've [TS]

  been sending to Princeton for the last [TS]

  20 30 40 years [TS]

  totally you know what I mean like we [TS]

  have been we have been choosing who goes [TS]

  to the next level and those people have [TS]

  been producing a an increasingly garbage [TS]

  culture it isn't just that we've emptied [TS]

  the asylums it is that the people who [TS]

  have the opportunity to make good [TS]

  choices are making bad choices because [TS]

  they are cogs or because what we're [TS]

  calling imagination is not imagination [TS]

  and we need to I think recalibrate and [TS]

  fun and start saying like you know what [TS]

  maybe we need you know maybe the [TS]

  universities and this is the thing i [TS]

  don't think we can reform the [TS]

  university's I think we [TS]

  who are outside of this culture need to [TS]

  start saying the universities are not [TS]

  where we need to look and the like if [TS]

  you want an education you can now get [TS]

  one on your own [TS]

  we can we can start building educational [TS]

  models that are outside of this whole um [TS]

  like a cattle chute that we have spent [TS]

  the last hundred years designing to to [TS]

  find the the smartest people and outside [TS]

  of that cattle chute we can teach [TS]

  ourselves and we can start to prize and [TS]

  value other qualities and [TS]

  characteristics because when i was 19 [TS]

  years old maybe there was a chance that [TS]

  I could have kicked down the door into [TS]

  that world still just by sheer force of [TS]

  will and like good essay and [TS]

  interpretive dance or whatever but those [TS]

  days are gone there's no way a person [TS]

  like me could make it to it could make [TS]

  it through that system now [TS]

  no it's just starting to think that you [TS]

  know it's just all with all the the [TS]

  high-stakes testing that goes on [TS]

  throughout a public school education now [TS]

  and having to like more and more find [TS]

  yourself through this funnel of getting [TS]

  more and more to be the kind of person [TS]

  that a college would be interested or [TS]

  for that matter to a preschooler that a [TS]

  private elementary school would one and [TS]

  that makes you something then you get [TS]

  out you gotta be a feeder elementary [TS]

  school to get to a good middle school [TS]

  and so on and so forth until eventually [TS]

  you know your edges have been sanded off [TS]

  to where you fit into I don't / / say it [TS]

  but it's kind of crazy to me like that [TS]

  really feels kind of real you've got to [TS]

  have this number of extracurricular [TS]

  activities [TS]

  you gotta have this many things going on [TS]

  and that is for the privilege of paying [TS]

  40 thousand dollars a year to go to [TS]

  college rights to me work it's a little [TS]

  bit crazy [TS]

  well and and just look at like look who [TS]

  are heroes are um if you if you want to [TS]

  look at I mean Bill Gates or [TS]

  or Mark Zuckerberg and say like well you [TS]

  know these guys they went to Harvard [TS]

  they dropped out they started these [TS]

  billion-dollar companies like these are [TS]

  our heroes and if you look at Mark [TS]

  Zuckerberg and Bill Gates these guys are [TS]

  not my hero [TS]

  they are not our heroes they are not [TS]

  heroes at all like these are these are [TS]

  not um you know maybe bill gates has [TS]

  become a likeable guy and maybe heat [TS]

  through a combination of PR like devoted [TS]

  millions and millions of dollars of [TS]

  people working on him to make him appear [TS]

  in public as a pleasant person who has a [TS]

  good heart who is giving his money away [TS]

  for clean water like Bill Gates has has [TS]

  become a honorable character in the [TS]

  world but Bill Gates is a fucking frog [TS]

  leg king and so as Zuckerberg like [TS]

  neither one of these guys are are like [TS]

  heroic humans they aren't even full [TS]

  humans they're just guys who like had [TS]

  one idea and and did it to the exclusion [TS]

  of all other human activity all about do [TS]

  some combination of I don't wanna play [TS]

  negatively but like psychosis or grit [TS]

  was able to stick with it so long that [TS]

  they pushed it through to become what [TS]

  they wanted and then it evolved yeah [TS]

  they pushed it through and what is it [TS]

  exactly when bill gets his case it was [TS]

  some it was some word processing [TS]

  programs that ran on a fucking little [TS]

  game box that everybody decided we all [TS]

  needed to have at home because the [TS]

  typewriter wasn't good enough for [TS]

  whatever I mean it took it took 15 years [TS]

  of personal computers being pretty much [TS]

  boat anchors before they were really [TS]

  better than a typewriter and mimeograph [TS]

  machine you know it wasn't that long ago [TS]

  that we were I mean I'm still being [TS]

  asked to fact shit to people like the [TS]

  training wheels are still on [TS]

  and Zuckerberg did what he built the [TS]

  thing that that does what that we all go [TS]

  and placed our time on sending baby [TS]

  pictures back and forth like okay [TS]

  pioneers sure [TS]

  ok they've made a thing fine this is [TS]

  where we are now we're in a post [TS]

  facebook world but are we happy about it [TS]

  was that really good [TS]

  was that really the best we could have [TS]

  come up with facebook was the bus tub [TS]

  was the next thing that human beings [TS]

  devised point out there you know that it [TS]

  even that set the mark [TS]

  yeah like it is now there's no denying [TS]

  it [TS]

  it did happen it is a thing and it is an [TS]

  enormous thing and it has it has [TS]

  adjusted our course for the future we [TS]

  will always now live in a world that is [TS]

  post facebook but I do not see it as [TS]

  heroic or Google or even good and [TS]

  zuckerberg is not a she is no fucking [TS]

  Lancelot he's just up [TS]

  he's a guy who got where he is because [TS]

  we decided a certain type of person was [TS]

  going to succeed in schools and he got [TS]

  to a place and now he produced a thing [TS]

  that is the direct result of of how we [TS]

  decide who goes to college and we're [TS]

  living in a in a world where all the all [TS]

  the restaurants that used to have [TS]

  hand-carved turkey sandwiches have been [TS]

  torn down and turned into senior frogs [TS]

  and I don't fucking like it i think it's [TS]

  a bad world magnets and certainly it's [TS]

  bad on a cultural social level better it [TS]

  seems like a live is affecting the kind [TS]

  of food that you have available that the [TS]

  kind of food and the kind of brain food [TS]

  yes you know i like I realized the other [TS]

  day this is a crazy thing but you know [TS]

  Merlin I was never bored in my life when [TS]

  I was a kid I was never bored when I was [TS]

  a teenager I was never bored you know [TS]

  you never ever ever would have heard [TS]

  from me i'm bored because if I was left [TS]

  alone and I had anything if I was left [TS]

  alone and I had two pebbles I would [TS]

  devise a little thing with two pebbles [TS]

  that would keep me interested not just [TS]

  occupied [TS]

  but interested I wasn't bored when I was [TS]

  a drunk I wasn't bored at any you know [TS]

  really at any job I had because once i [TS]

  got how to do the job then I could let [TS]

  my mind Rome and it was just like doing [TS]

  to a road job and let your mind be free [TS]

  but lately i have discovered i have [TS]

  found myself being bored and why because [TS]

  i look at my phone all the fucking time [TS]

  and I'm looking at my phone all the time [TS]

  and it's extended its exciting and I [TS]

  like the internet and i'm on the Twitter [TS]

  and I'm floating around and im looking [TS]

  at stuff and I'm looking stuff up but [TS]

  all of a sudden in the afternoon [TS]

  sometimes I'll be like oh god I'm just [TS]

  so fucking bored and I realize it's [TS]

  because i'm looking at my phone all the [TS]

  time and it has the collected world [TS]

  knowledge on it and yet the interface [TS]

  with it and the and what I'm how I'm [TS]

  using it what I'm seeking out there and [TS]

  I don't think I'm any different from [TS]

  anybody else [TS]

  it's producing this novel sensation me [TS]

  which is like the boredom of access to [TS]

  everything and the boredom of you know [TS]

  of navigating a world that was created [TS]

  you know in a way with no imagination [TS]

  the architecture of this this phone [TS]

  based internet world has a decided lack [TS]

  of imagination be like built into the [TS]

  fabric of it it's just you know it's [TS]

  what people who were told they had [TS]

  imagination built and everybody [TS]

  congratulated them and they were like [TS]

  thanks a lot you know if did you notice [TS]

  that the back button takes you back and [TS]

  the forward button takes you forward and [TS]

  did you notice also you can scroll over [TS]

  here and you can look at that and you [TS]

  click on the add and it goes to the next [TS]

  thing it's just like you know what yeah [TS]

  i did notice that and fuck you guy it's [TS]

  not that great [TS]

  let's talk about all the president's men [TS]

  haha ok yeah I I side another girl haha [TS]