Roderick on the Line

00:00:00 ◼   ► this episode of rock on the line is [TS]

00:00:01 ◼   ► sponsored by Squarespace the all-in-one [TS]

00:00:04 ◼   ► platform that makes it fast and easy to [TS]

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00:00:13 ◼   ► by visit squarespace.com and use the [TS]

00:00:16 ◼   ► offer code supertrain at checkout a [TS]

00:00:18 ◼   ► better web starts with your website [TS]

00:00:23 ◼   ► hello [TS]

00:00:26 ◼   ► I John I'm Merlin has gone pretty good [TS]

00:00:30 ◼   ► how are you going [TS]

00:00:31 ◼   ► we should break the fourth wall we [TS]

00:00:34 ◼   ► should at least you know Pierce the [TS]

00:00:35 ◼   ► fourth wall how we gonna do that [TS]

00:00:37 ◼   ► well I don't know bye-bye being a [TS]

00:00:39 ◼   ► forward-thinking let's be [TS]

00:00:41 ◼   ► forward-thinking appears the fourth wall [TS]

00:00:43 ◼   ► well I you know me I don't talk about [TS]

00:00:46 ◼   ► the show on the show right now I know [TS]

00:00:48 ◼   ► other people don't like us to talk about [TS]

00:00:49 ◼   ► the show on the show but but we're [TS]

00:00:51 ◼   ► recording episodes because early and [TS]

00:00:55 ◼   ► second them as you say because because [TS]

00:00:57 ◼   ► we're both going to be away parts of the [TS]

00:00:59 ◼   ► summer of this year 1978 and and so I we [TS]

00:01:03 ◼   ► hope that everything we see on here will [TS]

00:01:04 ◼   ► still make sense that uh uh as we've [TS]

00:01:07 ◼   ► done this before where you and I have [TS]

00:01:10 ◼   ► recorded multiple episodes in one [TS]

00:01:13 ◼   ► sitting and my dive founded generally to [TS]

00:01:18 ◼   ► be a success [TS]

00:01:19 ◼   ► no I agree they're nice and loose and [TS]

00:01:20 ◼   ► warm right all warmed up [TS]

00:01:22 ◼   ► ah but I've already blown through all my [TS]

00:01:25 ◼   ► grateful dead material i prepared [TS]

00:01:26 ◼   ► problem [TS]

00:01:27 ◼   ► yeah well I'm the thing I you know I [TS]

00:01:28 ◼   ► feel like the 800-pound gorilla in the [TS]

00:01:30 ◼   ► room is really a 450 pound gorilla [TS]

00:01:35 ◼   ► wearing a gorilla suit [TS]

00:01:38 ◼   ► I'm listening but you know part of the [TS]

00:01:42 ◼   ► problem with doing episodes because I [TS]

00:01:44 ◼   ► you as you have said many times you like [TS]

00:01:46 ◼   ► to feel like our show is timeless [TS]

00:01:48 ◼   ► evergreen yeah and you can listen to the [TS]

00:01:50 ◼   ► show at any time any episode will work [TS]

00:01:54 ◼   ► but the real world doesn't rude [TS]

00:01:58 ◼   ► sometimes right and we are recording [TS]

00:02:00 ◼   ► this show immediately after the [TS]

00:02:04 ◼   ► electromagnetic magnetic pulse [TS]

00:02:07 ◼   ► yes destroyed all of civilization and a [TS]

00:02:11 ◼   ► lot of our listeners are going to be [TS]

00:02:12 ◼   ► wondering you know did this happen in an [TS]

00:02:15 ◼   ► alternate universe [TS]

00:02:17 ◼   ► I'm how did how did they do it it's a [TS]

00:02:19 ◼   ► lot to explain but also there's a lot of [TS]

00:02:23 ◼   ► Macintosh talk and all my ears this much [TS]

00:02:26 ◼   ► mcintosh stock and you and I have very [TS]

00:02:28 ◼   ► studiously avoiding talking about all [TS]

00:02:31 ◼   ► that's a shame that we should talk about [TS]

00:02:32 ◼   ► the Macintosh talk because it's you know [TS]

00:02:34 ◼   ► because we want our show to be evergreen [TS]

00:02:36 ◼   ► we don't want to be top [TS]

00:02:37 ◼   ► all who are the same guys each weapon [TS]

00:02:40 ◼   ► ghazi open ghazi is all it's on [TS]

00:02:42 ◼   ► everybody's lips Bergdahl oil a popular [TS]

00:02:49 ◼   ► brand of motor oil [TS]

00:02:51 ◼   ► it's that the hostage guy i mean i think [TS]

00:02:55 ◼   ► we're giving away when this show is [TS]

00:02:57 ◼   ► being recorded enjoy the Hillary Clinton [TS]

00:02:59 ◼   ► book uh still reading it still raining [TS]

00:03:03 ◼   ► pretty dense I'm trying to get into Game [TS]

00:03:05 ◼   ► of Thrones are all my gosh [TS]

00:03:07 ◼   ► because I met george RR martin do you [TS]

00:03:10 ◼   ► know I kind of want to hear about that [TS]

00:03:12 ◼   ► yeah yeah it's a I mean you know [TS]

00:03:15 ◼   ► studious rock on the line scholars will [TS]

00:03:17 ◼   ► know almost exactly when we're recording [TS]

00:03:20 ◼   ► this now based on this topical [TS]

00:03:21 ◼   ► information we've given thanks mama [TS]

00:03:24 ◼   ► partly feels like that is destroying the [TS]

00:03:26 ◼   ► illusion that we are that we are posting [TS]

00:03:29 ◼   ► these from the future but but yeah so I [TS]

00:03:33 ◼   ► so I so I i spent the day basically with [TS]

00:03:36 ◼   ► george RR martin would you would you [TS]

00:03:38 ◼   ► forgive me a a slight law here at this [TS]

00:03:41 ◼   ► point turn [TS]

00:03:42 ◼   ► ok you are a man who exists out of time [TS]

00:03:44 ◼   ► correct your man who is not a fan in [TS]

00:03:47 ◼   ► italics correct right but that isn't it [TS]

00:03:50 ◼   ► fair to say that that in your studies [TS]

00:03:52 ◼   ► dark web and otherwise in the past [TS]

00:03:54 ◼   ► you've read a lot of books [TS]

00:03:55 ◼   ► yes that's true but you know I mean [TS]

00:03:57 ◼   ► you've read like you've read some [TS]

00:03:58 ◼   ► science fiction stuff right [TS]

00:03:59 ◼   ► I have you talked about it i do not [TS]

00:04:02 ◼   ► generally I mean and part partly it is [TS]

00:04:05 ◼   ► you know like I went through a phase [TS]

00:04:08 ◼   ► many years ago when I read everything [TS]

00:04:10 ◼   ► that Harlan Ellison wrote wow and i [TS]

00:04:14 ◼   ► really enjoyed it [TS]

00:04:15 ◼   ► although his politics were inexcusable [TS]

00:04:17 ◼   ► like it seems to be kind of things like [TS]

00:04:21 ◼   ► firefighters right i mean like is just [TS]

00:04:24 ◼   ► like the Ender's Game move his idea of [TS]

00:04:27 ◼   ► like what with the proper gender roles [TS]

00:04:30 ◼   ► were even 25 years ago when i read all [TS]

00:04:33 ◼   ► those books it was it's just [TS]

00:04:36 ◼   ► unconscionable you can't you can't [TS]

00:04:38 ◼   ► endorse it but at the same time great [TS]

00:04:41 ◼   ► stories great imagination [TS]

00:04:43 ◼   ► I think it is I think it's ultimately [TS]

00:04:45 ◼   ► like you know I i talked about this in [TS]

00:04:49 ◼   ► my i'm not a fan article for the LA [TS]

00:04:52 ◼   ► weekly which produced what I can only [TS]

00:04:54 ◼   ► imagine was a very entertaining comments [TS]

00:04:57 ◼   ► section that I absolutely did not visit [TS]

00:04:59 ◼   ► or we learned your lesson [TS]

00:05:02 ◼   ► I expressed I expressed to myself no [TS]

00:05:04 ◼   ► curiosity about it like oh I'm sure [TS]

00:05:07 ◼   ► there are people yelling at me on [TS]

00:05:09 ◼   ► they're not going to give them even the [TS]

00:05:11 ◼   ► pleasure of thinking about that i would [TS]

00:05:12 ◼   ► go read it but uh but you know the the [TS]

00:05:18 ◼   ► complicated thing about reading the [TS]

00:05:21 ◼   ► product of someone else's imagination [TS]

00:05:24 ◼   ► for me is always that I absolutely enjoy [TS]

00:05:29 ◼   ► the experience but but i am always [TS]

00:05:33 ◼   ► conscious of of occupying like some [TS]

00:05:37 ◼   ► rented real estate in someone else's [TS]

00:05:40 ◼   ► imagination for a short period of time [TS]

00:05:42 ◼   ► it's not a place I i want to buy or [TS]

00:05:45 ◼   ► build a house it's not a place that I [TS]

00:05:47 ◼   ► want to I don't want to put my [TS]

00:05:51 ◼   ► imagination there or I like there are [TS]

00:05:56 ◼   ► things that I experienced in in in [TS]

00:05:59 ◼   ► entering someone else's imaginative [TS]

00:06:01 ◼   ► world that I wanted you know that I [TS]

00:06:02 ◼   ► absolutely want to borrow or take with [TS]

00:06:04 ◼   ► me and like put into a cigar box if you [TS]

00:06:10 ◼   ► will in my imagination right i wanted i [TS]

00:06:14 ◼   ► want to walk over I want to walk out of [TS]

00:06:16 ◼   ► harlan ellison's world would be like oh [TS]

00:06:17 ◼   ► it never occurred to me that for [TS]

00:06:20 ◼   ► instance incest bias was a cultural [TS]

00:06:27 ◼   ► thing right i read i read Harlan Ellison [TS]

00:06:29 ◼   ► story one time where the plot was oh why [TS]

00:06:32 ◼   ► do we have a prohibition on incest [TS]

00:06:34 ◼   ► there's there are ancient reasons for it [TS]

00:06:38 ◼   ► but really it's a cultural bias rather [TS]

00:06:41 ◼   ► than a necessary one or or an opera or [TS]

00:06:45 ◼   ► e1 and i was like huh that makes me [TS]

00:06:48 ◼   ► uncomfortable [TS]

00:06:49 ◼   ► that's an idea that someone else put [TS]

00:06:53 ◼   ► into a story and it makes me [TS]

00:06:55 ◼   ► uncomfortable to think about and that [TS]

00:06:56 ◼   ► very interesting and that and that story [TS]

00:06:59 ◼   ► was a success because you know the [TS]

00:07:02 ◼   ► reveal was like poof out huh i'm gonna [TS]

00:07:07 ◼   ► take that away i'm gonna chew on that [TS]

00:07:08 ◼   ► and yet my my first instinct he even [TS]

00:07:16 ◼   ► when I you know even the star wars [TS]

00:07:17 ◼   ► universe or anybody else's universe my [TS]

00:07:20 ◼   ► first instinct is like okay that was fun [TS]

00:07:22 ◼   ► thank you for having me over and now [TS]

00:07:25 ◼   ► it's time to say goodnight and goodbye [TS]

00:07:28 ◼   ► maybe i'll come back and visit you [TS]

00:07:29 ◼   ► another time [TS]

00:07:30 ◼   ► it's an Airbnb of the mind you don't [TS]

00:07:32 ◼   ► want to lead on to move in yeah right [TS]

00:07:34 ◼   ► because my own imaginative world is is [TS]

00:07:39 ◼   ► almost completely fulfilling like I do [TS]

00:07:43 ◼   ► not I do not sit around and and ever [TS]

00:07:45 ◼   ► feel like while I've run out of things [TS]

00:07:47 ◼   ► to imagine like I am so bored sitting [TS]

00:07:52 ◼   ► here imagining things I would like to [TS]

00:07:54 ◼   ► see what other people are imagining I [TS]

00:07:56 ◼   ► mean you know every once in a while I do [TS]

00:07:58 ◼   ► out of just sort of uh I hear people [TS]

00:08:01 ◼   ► talking about something enough or or but [TS]

00:08:05 ◼   ► it's never a case of like I'm having a [TS]

00:08:07 ◼   ► real imagination drought over here and [TS]

00:08:10 ◼   ► I'd like to go somewhere else and like [TS]

00:08:13 ◼   ► and just to you know that whole business [TS]

00:08:15 ◼   ► that people talk about like I just turn [TS]

00:08:17 ◼   ► off and just you know and have absorbed [TS]

00:08:21 ◼   ► with someone else's story like i [TS]

00:08:24 ◼   ► understand the feeling of like turning [TS]

00:08:26 ◼   ► off but you know turn off and go into my [TS]

00:08:30 ◼   ► own the playland a library of [TS]

00:08:34 ◼   ► speculative fiction right and so so I [TS]

00:08:40 ◼   ► mean all the comments all the angry [TS]

00:08:41 ◼   ► comments that that made their way to me [TS]

00:08:43 ◼   ► about that fan article you know just or [TS]

00:08:46 ◼   ► we're having the same sort of defensive [TS]

00:08:49 ◼   ► reaction that the that the angry [TS]

00:08:51 ◼   ► comments about the punk-rock article had [TS]

00:08:53 ◼   ► which are like this is my world this is [TS]

00:08:55 ◼   ► important to me why are you attacking me [TS]

00:08:57 ◼   ► and you know and i think a lot of that [TS]

00:09:00 ◼   ► is just the tone that I right or am I [TS]

00:09:02 ◼   ► you know by a know-it-all tone [TS]

00:09:04 ◼   ► but of course I'm not attacking and just [TS]

00:09:06 ◼   ► like you really are talking about [TS]

00:09:08 ◼   ► yourself talking about myself and and [TS]

00:09:10 ◼   ► and and the best comments i got word [TS]

00:09:13 ◼   ► that handful of emails from people that [TS]

00:09:14 ◼   ► were like thank you for writing that you [TS]

00:09:16 ◼   ► described me perfectly i never thought [TS]

00:09:19 ◼   ► about it that way before I always feel [TS]

00:09:21 ◼   ► like an outsider and i'm not a fan and [TS]

00:09:24 ◼   ► and now i know that a that I'm not alone [TS]

00:09:27 ◼   ► and then just like oh good I'm glad that [TS]

00:09:29 ◼   ► I made that connection with you people [TS]

00:09:31 ◼   ► like to think like you know and I I [TS]

00:09:33 ◼   ► don't really have a dog in this fight [TS]

00:09:34 ◼   ► too much but people but people tend to [TS]

00:09:37 ◼   ► think and I feel that sometimes when I [TS]

00:09:39 ◼   ► meet people who are really into comics [TS]

00:09:41 ◼   ► that don't like or not into not even [TS]

00:09:44 ◼   ► don't like that are into some comic that [TS]

00:09:45 ◼   ► all of my other friends and she was like [TS]

00:09:47 ◼   ► we have to stage an intervention [TS]

00:09:49 ◼   ► it's like you don't understand it yet [TS]

00:09:51 ◼   ► you know and so I know that I know that [TS]

00:09:53 ◼   ► feeling that feeling of community that [TS]

00:09:55 ◼   ► comes out of out of fandom but you know [TS]

00:09:57 ◼   ► and I don't I didn't get that you were [TS]

00:09:59 ◼   ► like saying that the other people [TS]

00:10:01 ◼   ► shouldn't be fans know God why all means [TS]

00:10:04 ◼   ► be fan like your fans i do i like all [TS]

00:10:07 ◼   ► fans i like so many people who are fans [TS]

00:10:10 ◼   ► it's just a I'm just kind of describing [TS]

00:10:13 ◼   ► like a like my state and it's not really [TS]

00:10:18 ◼   ► that I mean in some ways nothings and [TS]

00:10:19 ◼   ► check myself too much but like it's kind [TS]

00:10:22 ◼   ► of how I feel with me in like politics [TS]

00:10:24 ◼   ► and current affairs like I don't hate [TS]

00:10:26 ◼   ► politics and current affairs i don't [TS]

00:10:28 ◼   ► even hate that people have strong [TS]

00:10:30 ◼   ► opinions about it's just not my thing [TS]

00:10:32 ◼   ► and I really feel like it in that case [TS]

00:10:33 ◼   ► I'm the one saying i'm not a fan like I [TS]

00:10:35 ◼   ► feel like an outcast I feel like people [TS]

00:10:37 ◼   ► think I i don't know i don't know what [TS]

00:10:40 ◼   ► people think but sometimes i wonder if i [TS]

00:10:42 ◼   ► come across someone who doesn't care [TS]

00:10:43 ◼   ► about something I care a lot about stuff [TS]

00:10:45 ◼   ► I just don't feel the need to have that [TS]

00:10:47 ◼   ► like arguments about it with people [TS]

00:10:49 ◼   ► well that's the and that's the thing i [TS]

00:10:51 ◼   ► mean in the form of politics the people [TS]

00:10:54 ◼   ► who are fans of politics don't describe [TS]

00:10:56 ◼   ► themselves using fan language they [TS]

00:11:00 ◼   ► describe themselves using language where [TS]

00:11:01 ◼   ► if you you know if you aren't interested [TS]

00:11:03 ◼   ► in politics that you're not engaged in [TS]

00:11:06 ◼   ► the present world and you don't care [TS]

00:11:07 ◼   ► about the fate of mankind [TS]

00:11:09 ◼   ► you know and really you're absolutely [TS]

00:11:11 ◼   ► right their motivation is is very fan [TS]

00:11:16 ◼   ► based or or a lot of a lot of the [TS]

00:11:18 ◼   ► politics groupies are fan-based the [TS]

00:11:21 ◼   ► people that are writing about politics [TS]

00:11:23 ◼   ► everyday and writing about politicians [TS]

00:11:24 ◼   ► like they are stars and you know that's [TS]

00:11:29 ◼   ► true that's true of any of any of these [TS]

00:11:33 ◼   ► you know the way our culture is siloed [TS]

00:11:36 ◼   ► and somebody wrote somebody wrote an [TS]

00:11:38 ◼   ► interesting so so the the bass player of [TS]

00:11:43 ◼   ► skin yard who went on to own CZ records [TS]

00:11:51 ◼   ► one of the seminal Seattle grunge labels [TS]

00:11:53 ◼   ► he posted he reposted my fan article on [TS]

00:11:58 ◼   ► his facebook page and typically like his [TS]

00:12:03 ◼   ► friends on Facebook are all the Krusty [TS]

00:12:08 ◼   ► grunge era cross towards that that hated [TS]

00:12:15 ◼   ► my punk rock article 2 and there was a [TS]

00:12:17 ◼   ► lot of shit talking there and he posted [TS]

00:12:19 ◼   ► it like this is interesting to me at [TS]

00:12:21 ◼   ► this that i'm not sure i'm not sure [TS]

00:12:23 ◼   ► about this but i but I kind of feel like [TS]

00:12:26 ◼   ► I might even be one of these people [TS]

00:12:27 ◼   ► that's in this category of like as a [TS]

00:12:30 ◼   ► difficult relationship to fandom but [TS]

00:12:33 ◼   ► there was a lot of angry yelling on his [TS]

00:12:34 ◼   ► facebook page and that was kind of the [TS]

00:12:35 ◼   ► extent of the angry yelling that I saw [TS]

00:12:37 ◼   ► that I allowed myself to see before I [TS]

00:12:39 ◼   ► shut the whole system down [TS]

00:12:42 ◼   ► yeah yeah but there was an interesting [TS]

00:12:44 ◼   ► comment from someone on there that said [TS]

00:12:46 ◼   ► like this the this John Roderick person [TS]

00:12:50 ◼   ► seems like somebody who is primarily [TS]

00:12:54 ◼   ► interested in the breadth of experience [TS]

00:12:56 ◼   ► and not especially interested in the [TS]

00:12:59 ◼   ► depth of experience and I was like and I [TS]

00:13:03 ◼   ► you know I walked away and chew on that [TS]

00:13:05 ◼   ► for a while and feel like that's [TS]

00:13:06 ◼   ► absolutely true [TS]

00:13:08 ◼   ► it's certainly a conclusion that could [TS]

00:13:10 ◼   ► be drawn it's a conclusion that can be [TS]

00:13:11 ◼   ► drawn it was a hundred percent accurate [TS]

00:13:13 ◼   ► all the time it's it's certainly [TS]

00:13:14 ◼   ► interesting thought technology it's an [TS]

00:13:16 ◼   ► interesting thought technology and I and [TS]

00:13:18 ◼   ► and what I felt what I feel like is that [TS]

00:13:20 ◼   ► we all use the power of it [TS]

00:13:23 ◼   ► extrapolation to to get through life [TS]

00:13:26 ◼   ► right [TS]

00:13:27 ◼   ► you don't have to i mean somebody that [TS]

00:13:29 ◼   ► had a memento like condition where every [TS]

00:13:32 ◼   ► experience they had to figure out the [TS]

00:13:34 ◼   ► terms of it a new completely a new with [TS]

00:13:39 ◼   ► no prior experience you know that what a [TS]

00:13:41 ◼   ► nightmare that would be yeah like you go [TS]

00:13:43 ◼   ► through enough situations that when you [TS]

00:13:46 ◼   ► see a guy when you see a guy who has [TS]

00:13:49 ◼   ► bleached his goatee you pretty much know [TS]

00:13:53 ◼   ► what you're you pretty much know that [TS]

00:13:55 ◼   ► you're dealing with somebody that once [TS]

00:13:56 ◼   ► jalapenos in their food you know like [TS]

00:13:59 ◼   ► you that's me and face test it [TS]

00:14:02 ◼   ► you don't have to think of you have to [TS]

00:14:04 ◼   ► you don't have to meet this guy and [TS]

00:14:05 ◼   ► figure it out again right like oh you [TS]

00:14:08 ◼   ► believe you bleach your facial hair [TS]

00:14:09 ◼   ► betting that you think that your foods [TS]

00:14:12 ◼   ► not hot enough i guess if you when [TS]

00:14:14 ◼   ► you're thinking of asking do you want to [TS]

00:14:15 ◼   ► hit off of this [TS]

00:14:16 ◼   ► you don't have to ask you want to hit [TS]

00:14:17 ◼   ► off of whatever it is exactly he wants [TS]

00:14:19 ◼   ► to hit off of and he's the pad person [TS]

00:14:21 ◼   ► who want to get off of everything you [TS]

00:14:23 ◼   ► want cream cheese on that I bet you want [TS]

00:14:25 ◼   ► cream cheese on the key so so uh so you [TS]

00:14:30 ◼   ► know my my experience of depth when it [TS]

00:14:33 ◼   ► comes to anything kind of culturally or [TS]

00:14:36 ◼   ► experiential e is that I experienced the [TS]

00:14:39 ◼   ► depth of things largely through [TS]

00:14:43 ◼   ► extrapolation like I I i go down a [TS]

00:14:48 ◼   ► street in a neighborhood and I say okay [TS]

00:14:52 ◼   ► I got a picture of this neighborhood now [TS]

00:14:56 ◼   ► because I've gone down this street and [TS]

00:14:59 ◼   ► maybe I turned and went down a second [TS]

00:15:02 ◼   ► street and i'm going to extrapolate what [TS]

00:15:04 ◼   ► the character of this neighborhood is [TS]

00:15:06 ◼   ► through through that experience now next [TS]

00:15:09 ◼   ► time I'm going on a trip from point A to [TS]

00:15:12 ◼   ► point B do i go down this same street [TS]

00:15:15 ◼   ► again because it was the route because [TS]

00:15:17 ◼   ► it was the fastest route or do I take a [TS]

00:15:20 ◼   ► guy take a second route a new route so [TS]

00:15:25 ◼   ► that i can increase that power of [TS]

00:15:27 ◼   ► extrapolation [TS]

00:15:29 ◼   ► I can increase my like my sample size so [TS]

00:15:35 ◼   ► that again i start to get a picture of [TS]

00:15:37 ◼   ► this whole part of the town i start to [TS]

00:15:39 ◼   ► get a picture of this whole community [TS]

00:15:40 ◼   ► that's interesting instead of being a [TS]

00:15:42 ◼   ► fan of this particular route and because [TS]

00:15:45 ◼   ► you like it more than the one other one [TS]

00:15:46 ◼   ► you tried you're saying I want to see [TS]

00:15:48 ◼   ► what all these do right and and and that [TS]

00:15:51 ◼   ► is my experience of culture to like I'm [TS]

00:15:53 ◼   ► always trying to increase my sample size [TS]

00:15:55 ◼   ► so i can use the power of extrapolation [TS]

00:15:58 ◼   ► to know more and and what I what I think [TS]

00:16:02 ◼   ► is you know like i do not have it i do [TS]

00:16:04 ◼   ► not have a deep knowledge of of a of any [TS]

00:16:10 ◼   ► process right like how do you get to be [TS]

00:16:13 ◼   ► a how do you get to be a great luthier [TS]

00:16:15 ◼   ► how do you get to be the ultimate sushi [TS]

00:16:18 ◼   ► chef you know you do the same thing over [TS]

00:16:20 ◼   ► and over and over until your knowledge [TS]

00:16:23 ◼   ► of it is like in your hands it's in your [TS]

00:16:26 ◼   ► bones [TS]

00:16:27 ◼   ► you are the you are the ultimate [TS]

00:16:30 ◼   ► practitioner other thing because you [TS]

00:16:33 ◼   ► have you have turned that experience [TS]

00:16:36 ◼   ► you've gone through wrote into like body [TS]

00:16:41 ◼   ► memory [TS]

00:16:42 ◼   ► uh-huh uh-huh and I don't have that with [TS]

00:16:46 ◼   ► anything even with guitar like I'm not I [TS]

00:16:48 ◼   ► i find it very very difficult to [TS]

00:16:51 ◼   ► practice the same thing over and over [TS]

00:16:52 ◼   ► again I'm always playing something [TS]

00:16:54 ◼   ► different and new and other and and in a [TS]

00:16:57 ◼   ► way that that informs how I how I make [TS]

00:17:01 ◼   ► music [TS]

00:17:01 ◼   ► the problem is it's I never do that I [TS]

00:17:04 ◼   ► never play the link multiple times until [TS]

00:17:06 ◼   ► i can do it you know and it's you know [TS]

00:17:09 ◼   ► that's why I'm not a not a real [TS]

00:17:12 ◼   ► technical musician but but what I what I [TS]

00:17:16 ◼   ► do instead is always take a different [TS]

00:17:17 ◼   ► route always trying new food you know i [TS]

00:17:20 ◼   ► was i was at a restaurant with a friend [TS]

00:17:21 ◼   ► the other day and they were like I come [TS]

00:17:23 ◼   ► to this restaurant with you 50 times [TS]

00:17:24 ◼   ► you've never ordered the same thing [TS]

00:17:26 ◼   ► and I ordered the same thing every time [TS]

00:17:28 ◼   ► I i always order the same thing [TS]

00:17:30 ◼   ► yeah and I think that's true that's true [TS]

00:17:32 ◼   ► for a lot of people and they were [TS]

00:17:34 ◼   ► remarking on it and it took them 50 [TS]

00:17:36 ◼   ► visits with me to to realize it like [TS]

00:17:39 ◼   ► that every time you order something [TS]

00:17:42 ◼   ► different and I think that that makes me [TS]

00:17:44 ◼   ► a little uncomfortable like each time [TS]

00:17:45 ◼   ► you're going to try something new like [TS]

00:17:47 ◼   ► is it all like it can't always be good [TS]

00:17:49 ◼   ► and I'm like no sometimes it is not good [TS]

00:17:52 ◼   ► sometimes it's not but each but a meal [TS]

00:17:54 ◼   ► is just a moment you know and if you get [TS]

00:17:56 ◼   ► if you get a bad one like like sweeping [TS]

00:17:58 ◼   ► into the trash you know tried to try and [TS]

00:18:01 ◼   ► the new thing the next time so it's a so [TS]

00:18:04 ◼   ► it's a it's a relationship to phantom [TS]

00:18:07 ◼   ► that's really part of a larger [TS]

00:18:09 ◼   ► relationship to experience which is like [TS]

00:18:13 ◼   ► I don't care to do the same thing enough [TS]

00:18:16 ◼   ► times that i developed a deep knowledge [TS]

00:18:18 ◼   ► because deep knowledge of a process or [TS]

00:18:23 ◼   ► of a of a any any real deep knowledge is [TS]

00:18:28 ◼   ► a thing i feel like i can approximate [TS]

00:18:30 ◼   ► through analogy and like I would much [TS]

00:18:37 ◼   ► rather see the IC increase my breath [TS]

00:18:40 ◼   ► over right now and but let me let me [TS]

00:18:43 ◼   ► just help add a note here that I think [TS]

00:18:46 ◼   ► is important which is I don't hear you [TS]

00:18:48 ◼   ► saying that means nobody else should [TS]

00:18:50 ◼   ► have deep knowledge of things or ignore [TS]

00:18:53 ◼   ► that that's not valuable you're not [TS]

00:18:54 ◼   ► saying that at all [TS]

00:18:56 ◼   ► the only way i could be this way is that [TS]

00:18:58 ◼   ► I is that I'm surrounded by people that [TS]

00:19:00 ◼   ► have deep knowledge agree though that [TS]

00:19:02 ◼   ► isn't that something that people here [TS]

00:19:03 ◼   ► when you use when you say i have chosen [TS]

00:19:05 ◼   ► to like know enough about these couple [TS]

00:19:07 ◼   ► things to be able to extrapolate and [TS]

00:19:09 ◼   ► learn and learn about a new thing I want [TS]

00:19:10 ◼   ► to know about your you're curious person [TS]

00:19:12 ◼   ► that doesn't mean that you don't think [TS]

00:19:14 ◼   ► other people should become experts know [TS]

00:19:16 ◼   ► and I don't understand how anybody could [TS]

00:19:18 ◼   ► I mean I guess I feel like it's weird [TS]

00:19:20 ◼   ► even have the 66 [TS]

00:19:22 ◼   ► yeah I and I feel like when I talk about [TS]

00:19:24 ◼   ► my experience I talked about it with a [TS]

00:19:27 ◼   ► with with unnatural pride right like i [TS]

00:19:31 ◼   ► am proud of how I am I i don't i'm not [TS]

00:19:35 ◼   ► defending how I am against attackers i [TS]

00:19:37 ◼   ► just am proud of it because [TS]

00:19:40 ◼   ► because i feel like that whole modern [TS]

00:19:42 ◼   ► tendency to apologize for who you are [TS]

00:19:44 ◼   ► first like hello hi nice to meet you [TS]

00:19:46 ◼   ► listen I'm sorry that I'm different from [TS]

00:19:48 ◼   ► you but I'm just gonna I have to express [TS]

00:19:51 ◼   ► my difference and I know it's bad but [TS]

00:19:53 ◼   ► please don't hurt me but here I am I [TS]

00:19:56 ◼   ► hate that I i feel like i I'm I'm proud [TS]

00:19:59 ◼   ► of Who I am and that that's not [TS]

00:20:01 ◼   ► something i should be ashamed of but [TS]

00:20:03 ◼   ► expressing who i am in a way that is [TS]

00:20:05 ◼   ► that seems like just sort of a contented [TS]

00:20:09 ◼   ► or happy or or or that I prefer the way [TS]

00:20:12 ◼   ► that I am is immediately interpreted as [TS]

00:20:15 ◼   ► judgment of other people and my [TS]

00:20:18 ◼   ► preference for myself is is somehow an [TS]

00:20:21 ◼   ► expression that I am better uh want to [TS]

00:20:25 ◼   ► share the church is categorically [TS]

00:20:26 ◼   ► disrespectful almost yeah right like oh [TS]

00:20:28 ◼   ► yes I I don't prefer to be an expert so [TS]

00:20:31 ◼   ► anybody that's an expert is a fucking [TS]

00:20:32 ◼   ► idiot like and I don't know where people [TS]

00:20:35 ◼   ► how people make that leap it's in it's [TS]

00:20:37 ◼   ► an invisible missed in a culture today i [TS]

00:20:41 ◼   ► feel i feel it all the time it's bananas [TS]

00:20:44 ◼   ► it is and it's it's so it's so cocky and [TS]

00:20:47 ◼   ► self-involved to assume that you can [TS]

00:20:49 ◼   ► understand that much about somebody [TS]

00:20:52 ◼   ► who's not who's not even saying anything [TS]

00:20:53 ◼   ► against what you believe or saying [TS]

00:20:56 ◼   ► anything against the very idea that you [TS]

00:20:58 ◼   ► like to believe what you believe it's [TS]

00:21:00 ◼   ► it's so it's a caustic and unnecessary [TS]

00:21:02 ◼   ► but I feel like it's everywhere and if [TS]

00:21:05 ◼   ► you and you really you sound one sounds [TS]

00:21:08 ◼   ► very self-involved or insulated if you [TS]

00:21:12 ◼   ► don't excuse yourself for not knowing [TS]

00:21:15 ◼   ► everything about somebody and you don't [TS]

00:21:17 ◼   ► mean tennis is such a weird situation [TS]

00:21:19 ◼   ► well this and again this this this [TS]

00:21:22 ◼   ► comment section in on the Daniel house [TS]

00:21:25 ◼   ► facebook page there was a guy and at a [TS]

00:21:29 ◼   ► certain point of the full disclosure at [TS]

00:21:31 ◼   ► a certain point I started to comment on [TS]

00:21:33 ◼   ► his Facebook page no because John the [TS]

00:21:36 ◼   ► first commenter was a guy that was just [TS]

00:21:39 ◼   ► like you know what this guy's a fucking [TS]

00:21:41 ◼   ► asshole i hated his punk rock article i [TS]

00:21:43 ◼   ► hate his whole attitude he thinks he's [TS]

00:21:45 ◼   ► better than everybody else he thinks [TS]

00:21:47 ◼   ► he's smarter than everybody else and [TS]

00:21:48 ◼   ► that's fucking bullshit [TS]

00:21:50 ◼   ► his music sucks and he's got a fucking [TS]

00:21:52 ◼   ► stupid haircut and his glasses are dumb [TS]

00:21:54 ◼   ► everything about this guy sucks and it's [TS]

00:21:56 ◼   ► fucking and that he's an asshole and I [TS]

00:21:58 ◼   ► hate him and you know so that's the [TS]

00:22:00 ◼   ► first comment and it's known as well you [TS]

00:22:03 ◼   ► know and it gets like it gets a like [TS]

00:22:06 ◼   ► five times or something and it you know [TS]

00:22:09 ◼   ► that but then there's three or four [TS]

00:22:10 ◼   ► comments from people that are like I [TS]

00:22:11 ◼   ► don't know this article seems pretty [TS]

00:22:12 ◼   ► well it seems pretty reasonable i mean [TS]

00:22:15 ◼   ► i-i don't know if I agree that kiss is [TS]

00:22:17 ◼   ► no good because I like kiss but you know [TS]

00:22:19 ◼   ► but you know a couple people defending [TS]

00:22:21 ◼   ► or at least making that conciliatory [TS]

00:22:24 ◼   ► facebook like medium post and then the [TS]

00:22:30 ◼   ► guy comes back and he's like no you know [TS]

00:22:32 ◼   ► what you guys Bob habitat you're all [TS]

00:22:33 ◼   ► wrong and another thing about this guy [TS]

00:22:35 ◼   ► like his she's got bad taste in shoes [TS]

00:22:38 ◼   ► and he's like Ed perturb and so finally [TS]

00:22:40 ◼   ► of course I'll III show up here I come [TS]

00:22:44 ◼   ► through the door in a cape [TS]

00:22:47 ◼   ► I'm like huh i'm the writer of this [TS]

00:22:50 ◼   ► article and I'm reading your comments [TS]

00:22:52 ◼   ► you know I'm reading your comments and [TS]

00:22:54 ◼   ► I'm and I feel like I'm not trying to [TS]

00:22:57 ◼   ► attack anybody with this article I'm [TS]

00:22:59 ◼   ► just expressing who i am i'm just [TS]

00:23:00 ◼   ► talking from my perspective it's not a [TS]

00:23:03 ◼   ► bad thing and so angry guy comes back in [TS]

00:23:08 ◼   ► and now he feels a little bit like o.o [TS]

00:23:10 ◼   ► the there's an adulterer like bit adults [TS]

00:23:13 ◼   ► are in the room now so i have to pretend [TS]

00:23:15 ◼   ► I'm an adult and he's like well I'm it's [TS]

00:23:17 ◼   ► very I'm very pleased to see that you're [TS]

00:23:19 ◼   ► here defending yourself but I just have [TS]

00:23:21 ◼   ► to take issue with the fact that you are [TS]

00:23:24 ◼   ► such a that you're so arrogant and I was [TS]

00:23:28 ◼   ► like well I'm not arrogant I'm just [TS]

00:23:30 ◼   ► talking about my experience and why [TS]

00:23:34 ◼   ► would I why would I apologize for for [TS]

00:23:38 ◼   ► you know what i mean and he's and he [TS]

00:23:40 ◼   ► comes back again a third time with like [TS]

00:23:42 ◼   ► chastising me about my tone and and so i [TS]

00:23:46 ◼   ► wrote i would like you sir to read back [TS]

00:23:49 ◼   ► on your posts on this facebook page and [TS]

00:23:53 ◼   ► reflect on your tone and then contrast [TS]

00:23:57 ◼   ► it with my tone and tell me which tone [TS]

00:24:00 ◼   ► you prefer like my know-it-all tone that [TS]

00:24:03 ◼   ► is [TS]

00:24:04 ◼   ► like so offensive to you because I'm [TS]

00:24:05 ◼   ► because I'm proud of myself right you're [TS]

00:24:08 ◼   ► an idiot and he's speaking truth to [TS]

00:24:09 ◼   ► power now or yeah exactly or you're like [TS]

00:24:12 ◼   ► you are pouring vitriol against someone [TS]

00:24:18 ◼   ► you don't know and don't understand and [TS]

00:24:21 ◼   ► your instinct your first instinct is to [TS]

00:24:23 ◼   ► be butthurt and up and like pissy bitchy [TS]

00:24:29 ◼   ► so what world you want to live in you [TS]

00:24:32 ◼   ► know like I'm i and and and that that [TS]

00:24:35 ◼   ► idea that two to be to not apologize for [TS]

00:24:42 ◼   ► yourself is the greatest crime is the [TS]

00:24:46 ◼   ► first crime you know is the is the is [TS]

00:24:48 ◼   ► the premier crime in in our internet [TS]

00:24:53 ◼   ► culture now to not begin with a I have [TS]

00:24:56 ◼   ► no right to speak but now that I've [TS]

00:25:00 ◼   ► acknowledge that i'm going to proffer my [TS]

00:25:02 ◼   ► humble opinion and I and now i'm gonna [TS]

00:25:06 ◼   ► slowly back out of the room bowing and [TS]

00:25:09 ◼   ► scraping and that and that's what's [TS]

00:25:11 ◼   ► necessary to not be to not be taken as [TS]

00:25:15 ◼   ► like a strident combative and ultimately [TS]

00:25:21 ◼   ► like you know angry troll [TS]

00:25:23 ◼   ► I don't get it I don't get it it's um I [TS]

00:25:27 ◼   ► think when you're doing any kind of [TS]

00:25:29 ◼   ► personal writing when you're talking [TS]

00:25:30 ◼   ► about yourself when you're talking about [TS]

00:25:31 ◼   ► yourself it as a member of society which [TS]

00:25:33 ◼   ► is what a lot of personal sites are in [TS]

00:25:35 ◼   ► some ways it's um I mean it'sit's you [TS]

00:25:37 ◼   ► have to be skillful to say something [TS]

00:25:39 ◼   ► interesting [TS]

00:25:39 ◼   ► it's be very skillful to say something [TS]

00:25:41 ◼   ► new and used to be somewhat courageous [TS]

00:25:43 ◼   ► to say something honest I think it's [TS]

00:25:44 ◼   ► very difficult to efficiently say [TS]

00:25:47 ◼   ► anything that's interesting and new and [TS]

00:25:49 ◼   ► honest without a lot of people getting [TS]

00:25:52 ◼   ► upset sometimes very little reason and [TS]

00:25:55 ◼   ► it isn't it isn't a mean people can sit [TS]

00:25:57 ◼   ► and I think that reads you're right i [TS]

00:25:58 ◼   ► think that people read that as arrogant [TS]

00:26:00 ◼   ► but like the thing is though if you [TS]

00:26:03 ◼   ► don't want it so what do you do to not [TS]

00:26:04 ◼   ► get that reaction from people you say [TS]

00:26:06 ◼   ► something uninteresting you say [TS]

00:26:07 ◼   ► something that's not new and you say [TS]

00:26:09 ◼   ► something is dishonest you say something [TS]

00:26:10 ◼   ► that everybody can agree with because [TS]

00:26:11 ◼   ► they already think that and that's why [TS]

00:26:13 ◼   ► bother you [TS]

00:26:15 ◼   ► right thats that's just asking for [TS]

00:26:16 ◼   ► compliments and that's that's not making [TS]

00:26:18 ◼   ► anything [TS]

00:26:19 ◼   ► yea yea it is an enemy and it's part of [TS]

00:26:22 ◼   ► i think the growing sense of like online [TS]

00:26:24 ◼   ► life as a as a group think consensus [TS]

00:26:29 ◼   ► machine where we're we're not we are not [TS]

00:26:34 ◼   ► trying to invent something new right now [TS]

00:26:37 ◼   ► in our at this moment in our culture we [TS]

00:26:40 ◼   ► are not trying to put a man on the moon [TS]

00:26:41 ◼   ► we are not trying to push the boundaries [TS]

00:26:46 ◼   ► of what it is to be a you know human [TS]

00:26:49 ◼   ► animal or 0 or a global culture we are [TS]

00:26:52 ◼   ► just at least online just trying to [TS]

00:26:57 ◼   ► round off all the nubs and sand the [TS]

00:27:02 ◼   ► corners and figure out and and basically [TS]

00:27:04 ◼   ► like shout people into a consensus that [TS]

00:27:08 ◼   ► makes us feel like that validates our [TS]

00:27:10 ◼   ► own prejudices and figure out how much [TS]

00:27:14 ◼   ► of that is about corralling a temporary [TS]

00:27:17 ◼   ► tribe of people who categorically agree [TS]

00:27:19 ◼   ► on who is a bad person and why they can [TS]

00:27:22 ◼   ► ask yourself how many things that people [TS]

00:27:24 ◼   ► consider like important conversations [TS]

00:27:26 ◼   ► all mostly stopped at who's a bad person [TS]

00:27:29 ◼   ► and why [TS]

00:27:29 ◼   ► uh-huh and then ask yourself what you [TS]

00:27:31 ◼   ► get out of that in terms of making [TS]

00:27:33 ◼   ► something [TS]

00:27:34 ◼   ► well yeah you're not making any [TS]

00:27:36 ◼   ► specially if 36 hours you move on to [TS]

00:27:38 ◼   ► find another tribe that you can agree [TS]

00:27:39 ◼   ► with and I really do I really honestly [TS]

00:27:42 ◼   ► do believe that but I mean you know of [TS]

00:27:45 ◼   ► several years ago 10 years ago we were [TS]

00:27:47 ◼   ► very worried about the Millennials and I [TS]

00:27:50 ◼   ► don't want to dump on the Millennials [TS]

00:27:52 ◼   ► because I some of the smartest people I [TS]

00:27:53 ◼   ► know are part of that generation is so [TS]

00:27:55 ◼   ► arrogant and some of the fuck you know [TS]

00:27:57 ◼   ► some of the funniest stuff that is being [TS]

00:28:00 ◼   ► bandied about is coming from Millennials [TS]

00:28:03 ◼   ► who have a who have a a different enough [TS]

00:28:06 ◼   ► take and a kind of let you know and the [TS]

00:28:11 ◼   ► power of youth but but ten years ago we [TS]

00:28:15 ◼   ► were we were all very concerned about [TS]

00:28:18 ◼   ► this brand new generation that was [TS]

00:28:19 ◼   ► arriving had never gotten a bad grade no [TS]

00:28:23 ◼   ► one had ever given them an F no one has [TS]

00:28:25 ◼   ► ever told them they needed to try a [TS]

00:28:27 ◼   ► little harder [TS]

00:28:28 ◼   ► her they were congratulated at every [TS]

00:28:30 ◼   ► step of the way and now they were 18 [TS]

00:28:33 ◼   ► years old they were entering the world [TS]

00:28:35 ◼   ► and they were really unhappy to find [TS]

00:28:39 ◼   ► that they didn't get a round of applause [TS]

00:28:41 ◼   ► every time they pooped and this was you [TS]

00:28:44 ◼   ► know this was ten years ago when we were [TS]

00:28:45 ◼   ► adults and we were like oh there's a new [TS]

00:28:47 ◼   ► generation arriving on the scene and [TS]

00:28:49 ◼   ► it's kind of weird interacting with them [TS]

00:28:52 ◼   ► because they are indignant that you know [TS]

00:28:55 ◼   ► like and and their indignant is you know [TS]

00:29:01 ◼   ► we were characterizing it as this as a [TS]

00:29:03 ◼   ► product of this era of no bad grades k-8 [TS]

00:29:08 ◼   ► if I effective make it worse they seldom [TS]

00:29:11 ◼   ► seldom analyzed and ignorance but it [TS]

00:29:15 ◼   ► really felt like something that arrive [TS]

00:29:17 ◼   ► by fedex one day and that they really [TS]

00:29:18 ◼   ► completely deserved was this just this [TS]

00:29:20 ◼   ► constant sense of like explain i don't [TS]

00:29:23 ◼   ► mean to be negative about it but I just [TS]

00:29:25 ◼   ► got this sense of-of always looking for [TS]

00:29:28 ◼   ► bad stuff and everything as a way to [TS]

00:29:31 ◼   ► explain why your life sucks right and [TS]

00:29:33 ◼   ► and and and crucially unreflective [TS]

00:29:35 ◼   ► that's that's exactly right they were [TS]

00:29:37 ◼   ► not reflecting inwardly they're fine [TS]

00:29:40 ◼   ► reflecting on other people and we're [TS]

00:29:41 ◼   ► planning on what they need to be doing [TS]

00:29:43 ◼   ► differently be more unhappy like them [TS]

00:29:45 ◼   ► yeah well so here we are 10 years later [TS]

00:29:47 ◼   ► and we're no longer really talking about [TS]

00:29:50 ◼   ► Millennials in that way because that was [TS]

00:29:52 ◼   ► that was the way that we thought about [TS]

00:29:54 ◼   ► them when they were newly minted adults [TS]

00:29:56 ◼   ► they weren't kids anymore but they still [TS]

00:29:58 ◼   ► were very kid-like now that generation [TS]

00:30:01 ◼   ► is in its thirties and it is it is [TS]

00:30:06 ◼   ► producing a lot of culture it is really [TS]

00:30:09 ◼   ► like it is really generating that it the [TS]

00:30:13 ◼   ► tone of the conversation and and so i'm [TS]

00:30:17 ◼   ► i'm beginning to try and do what we've [TS]

00:30:19 ◼   ► done with every generation so far in my [TS]

00:30:21 ◼   ► life which is kind of slop them in to [TS]

00:30:24 ◼   ► what the story is you know what the [TS]

00:30:27 ◼   ► story of our culture is and and [TS]

00:30:29 ◼   ► Millennials are typically the children [TS]

00:30:31 ◼   ► of baby boomers [TS]

00:30:33 ◼   ► and you're in my generation is this this [TS]

00:30:37 ◼   ► intergeneration that is largely going to [TS]

00:30:39 ◼   ► be forgotten [TS]

00:30:40 ◼   ► you know we're a smaller population wise [TS]

00:30:44 ◼   ► words were much smaller than the Boomers [TS]

00:30:47 ◼   ► before us or their children after us [TS]

00:30:49 ◼   ► there fewer of us and we're going to be [TS]

00:30:52 ◼   ► marginalized we already are marginalized [TS]

00:30:55 ◼   ► we always were marginalized when we were [TS]

00:30:58 ◼   ► 18 the popular music on the charts was [TS]

00:31:02 ◼   ► still boomer music and we had our brief [TS]

00:31:06 ◼   ► moment in the early nineties where our [TS]

00:31:08 ◼   ► culture poked through for a little while [TS]

00:31:11 ◼   ► and we were regarded as a sulky entitled [TS]

00:31:17 ◼   ► generation ourselves and then we just [TS]

00:31:21 ◼   ► got like we just sort of got dust heaped [TS]

00:31:25 ◼   ► as the culture moved on like they [TS]

00:31:28 ◼   ► weren't really interested in hearing [TS]

00:31:30 ◼   ► from us anymore whatever it was that we [TS]

00:31:33 ◼   ► contributed was just kind of like ironic [TS]

00:31:37 ◼   ► and everything every year we're moving [TS]

00:31:39 ◼   ► more and more out of the target demo [TS]

00:31:41 ◼   ► yeah right you know we were like the [TS]

00:31:43 ◼   ► sneer errs who sneered our way right [TS]

00:31:46 ◼   ► into like a position where we acquiesce [TS]

00:31:50 ◼   ► to total sellout status which [TS]

00:31:53 ◼   ► invalidated entirely our prior sneery [TS]

00:31:56 ◼   ► mentality you know like we we self [TS]

00:32:00 ◼   ► invalidated ourselves in a way that that [TS]

00:32:04 ◼   ► it took the Boomers 25 years to do and [TS]

00:32:08 ◼   ► we just got on it pretty-pretty [TS]

00:32:10 ◼   ► announced today that the idea of selling [TS]

00:32:12 ◼   ► out is it is disappearing away we [TS]

00:32:15 ◼   ► couldn't imagine even five years ago [TS]

00:32:17 ◼   ► yeah right and and and in it in one [TS]

00:32:19 ◼   ► sense good riddens because that was that [TS]

00:32:21 ◼   ► was self-defeating but in another sense [TS]

00:32:23 ◼   ► everything isn't there everything is [TS]

00:32:25 ◼   ► marketing now I mean everything is [TS]

00:32:28 ◼   ► marketing including journalism I mean [TS]

00:32:31 ◼   ► things that we thought were were [TS]

00:32:32 ◼   ► unassailable including a personality [TS]

00:32:34 ◼   ► your personality you're a mean every [TS]

00:32:37 ◼   ► fucking thing and I say that as somebody [TS]

00:32:39 ◼   ► who who embraces the fact that you and I [TS]

00:32:43 ◼   ► have found an advertiser for our program [TS]

00:32:45 ◼   ► hello [TS]

00:32:46 ◼   ► like love a love the idea of making a [TS]

00:32:52 ◼   ► living doing creative work but my god i [TS]

00:32:54 ◼   ► go on the internet i'm trying to find a [TS]

00:32:58 ◼   ► thing I want to search for the the I [TS]

00:33:00 ◼   ► want to search for some information on [TS]

00:33:02 ◼   ► the thirty years war and the fucking [TS]

00:33:05 ◼   ► thing pops up and it's like if you like [TS]

00:33:06 ◼   ► the Thirty Years War you're gonna love [TS]

00:33:08 ◼   ► the new nissan sentra a team that Carl's [TS]

00:33:10 ◼   ► jr. you know go click to this BuzzFeed [TS]

00:33:13 ◼   ► thing and it's and you're just gonna and [TS]

00:33:16 ◼   ► every time you look for the arrow to see [TS]

00:33:17 ◼   ► the next picture it's actually going to [TS]

00:33:19 ◼   ► be an arrow that takes you to a chase [TS]

00:33:21 ◼   ► credit card and people usually what [TS]

00:33:23 ◼   ► happens tricks [TS]

00:33:24 ◼   ► that's like fuck you everybody like [TS]

00:33:25 ◼   ► everybody fucking but so so we're living [TS]

00:33:28 ◼   ► in a world now where Millennials have [TS]

00:33:31 ◼   ► have have melted into the larger adult [TS]

00:33:35 ◼   ► population and have brought their values [TS]

00:33:38 ◼   ► into the adult conversation they are [TS]

00:33:42 ◼   ► adults now and have their have this [TS]

00:33:45 ◼   ► value system that we perceive to be [TS]

00:33:47 ◼   ► founded in an untruth which is the [TS]

00:33:51 ◼   ► untruth being that everyone is special [TS]

00:33:53 ◼   ► and we feel that to be intrinsically [TS]

00:33:58 ◼   ► untrue and an unexamined lie but it's [TS]

00:34:02 ◼   ► now in its in the water that that that [TS]

00:34:05 ◼   ► draw that you know that LSD is in the [TS]

00:34:08 ◼   ► water supply now and you cannot you [TS]

00:34:11 ◼   ► cannot take a 30 year old and segregate [TS]

00:34:14 ◼   ► them from a forty-five-year-old and say [TS]

00:34:16 ◼   ► like well you still are you sir are [TS]

00:34:19 ◼   ► still living in a state of delusion [TS]

00:34:21 ◼   ► whereas we at 45 have exclusive access [TS]

00:34:25 ◼   ► to the truth because the baby boomers [TS]

00:34:27 ◼   ► ahead of us are also living in a [TS]

00:34:28 ◼   ► delusion like we're the only ones that [TS]

00:34:31 ◼   ► that step here the claim of [TS]

00:34:34 ◼   ► metal-on-metal I mean we're all just [TS]

00:34:37 ◼   ► dummies but I'm you know you you have a [TS]

00:34:42 ◼   ► kid I have a kid that are part of a jet [TS]

00:34:44 ◼   ► part of a generation that we have to [TS]

00:34:47 ◼   ► imagine I i have to start imagining what [TS]

00:34:51 ◼   ► their viewpoint is kind of pain now and [TS]

00:34:54 ◼   ► our are Millennials [TS]

00:34:57 ◼   ► are they the aberration or were we you [TS]

00:35:01 ◼   ► know our are they establishing what the [TS]

00:35:04 ◼   ► new tone is and weird i mean in a way [TS]

00:35:08 ◼   ► absolutely they are we are always from [TS]

00:35:11 ◼   ► now on going to be living in a world [TS]

00:35:13 ◼   ► that is somewhat defined by the the [TS]

00:35:18 ◼   ► group think and you know like [TS]

00:35:23 ◼   ► rights-based thinking you know kind of [TS]

00:35:26 ◼   ► justice based thinking of the generation [TS]

00:35:30 ◼   ► that came after us but somebody's got to [TS]

00:35:33 ◼   ► come along with a fucking plan for [TS]

00:35:35 ◼   ► something exciting and new [TS]

00:35:36 ◼   ► right right we can't human history [TS]

00:35:39 ◼   ► cannot just turn on itself and bite its [TS]

00:35:41 ◼   ► own tail for the rest we should have [TS]

00:35:42 ◼   ► more kids we should have more kids we [TS]

00:35:45 ◼   ► should teach them science until trail [TS]

00:35:47 ◼   ► get get them out there get there they're [TS]

00:35:50 ◼   ► healthy strong bodies building trail in [TS]

00:35:51 ◼   ► the Sun and then set them loose with [TS]

00:35:55 ◼   ► tools and math right teach them math [TS]

00:35:59 ◼   ► which together math and computer maths [TS]

00:36:02 ◼   ► teach them standard math if they know [TS]

00:36:04 ◼   ► their maths well enough by computer [TS]

00:36:06 ◼   ► maths will be easy because computer [TS]

00:36:09 ◼   ► mouths are just a trade that anyone can [TS]

00:36:11 ◼   ► learn [TS]

00:36:12 ◼   ► meanwhile back in santa fe i think if [TS]

00:36:16 ◼   ► you ask the typical pop quiz hotshot us [TS]

00:36:18 ◼   ► the typical erotic online listener which [TS]

00:36:21 ◼   ► one of us had read your me which of us [TS]

00:36:26 ◼   ► had read any token I have a feeling most [TS]

00:36:32 ◼   ► people would guess that i have read some [TS]

00:36:35 ◼   ► token right i've read note okay see [TS]

00:36:38 ◼   ► that's insane to be right now i'm going [TS]

00:36:40 ◼   ► to a lot of people i have read all the [TS]

00:36:42 ◼   ► tools see in this way the silmarillion [TS]

00:36:45 ◼   ► isn't that the hard one which is that [TS]

00:36:47 ◼   ► it's impossible to read that's like much [TS]

00:36:49 ◼   ► that's his metal machine music right [TS]

00:36:50 ◼   ► it's like reading a hundred years of [TS]

00:36:52 ◼   ► solitude if all the story was taken out [TS]

00:36:54 ◼   ► of this episode of rock on the line is [TS]

00:36:58 ◼   ► sponsored by our very good friends at [TS]

00:36:59 ◼   ► Squarespace you know Squarespace they [TS]

00:37:01 ◼   ► are the all-in-one platform that makes [TS]

00:37:03 ◼   ► it fast and easy to create your own [TS]

00:37:05 ◼   ► professional website portfolio or online [TS]

00:37:07 ◼   ► store they make the whole process so so [TS]

00:37:10 ◼   ► all have an easy drag-and-drop interface [TS]

00:37:12 ◼   ► and beautiful free templates you can [TS]

00:37:14 ◼   ► tweak to suit your needs all the [TS]

00:37:16 ◼   ► squarespace six designs are responsive [TS]

00:37:18 ◼   ► which means they look great on every [TS]

00:37:19 ◼   ► device [TS]

00:37:20 ◼   ► Squarespace also offers free 24 x seven [TS]

00:37:23 ◼   ► support through live chat and email with [TS]

00:37:25 ◼   ► dedicated teams in New York City dublin [TS]

00:37:27 ◼   ► and Portland John and I have u square [TS]

00:37:30 ◼   ► space to host rock on the line for three [TS]

00:37:32 ◼   ► years now they have been great to work [TS]

00:37:34 ◼   ► with [TS]

00:37:34 ◼   ► we would love it if you would give them [TS]

00:37:36 ◼   ► a try to remember Squarespace plans [TS]

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00:37:40 ◼   ► eight dollars a month that includes a [TS]

00:37:42 ◼   ► free domain name if you sign up for a [TS]

00:37:43 ◼   ► year [TS]

00:37:44 ◼   ► please remember to tell Squarespace you [TS]

00:37:46 ◼   ► heard about it from your positronic on [TS]

00:37:47 ◼   ► the line listeners of this program get a [TS]

00:37:50 ◼   ► free trial plus ten percent off any [TS]

00:37:52 ◼   ► package they choose by using the special [TS]

00:37:54 ◼   ► offer code supertrain at checkout our [TS]

00:37:57 ◼   ► thanks to squarespace for supporting rod [TS]

00:37:59 ◼   ► on the line we could not do it without [TS]

00:38:00 ◼   ► the one Tolkien I haven't read is his [TS]

00:38:06 ◼   ► apparently genius translation of Beowulf [TS]

00:38:09 ◼   ► which went unpublished until very [TS]

00:38:13 ◼   ► recently that was his like his a cassie [TS]

00:38:18 ◼   ► is young master work before he did all [TS]

00:38:21 ◼   ► the other before he did the fantasy [TS]

00:38:22 ◼   ► writing he wrote this like really [TS]

00:38:25 ◼   ► translation of Beowulf and then never [TS]

00:38:27 ◼   ► published it just sat on it huh and [TS]

00:38:29 ◼   ► Auntie think is a state did that as a [TS]

00:38:32 ◼   ► state has finally published yeah but you [TS]

00:38:35 ◼   ► gotta be careful what you leave on your [TS]

00:38:36 ◼   ► computer yeah I'm shaman know another [TS]

00:38:39 ◼   ► beer sketches by genre but he he wrote [TS]

00:38:45 ◼   ► this thing and I think it might have [TS]

00:38:46 ◼   ► been his leaves of grass he kept writing [TS]

00:38:48 ◼   ► it or or no monkeying with all didn't [TS]

00:38:51 ◼   ► think it was ready I don't know [TS]

00:38:53 ◼   ► but george RR martin very curious [TS]

00:38:58 ◼   ► character very interesting to interact [TS]

00:39:01 ◼   ► with him who he is a nerd [TS]

00:39:10 ◼   ► oh really yes but of the old-school you [TS]

00:39:15 ◼   ► know like remember when we were young [TS]

00:39:17 ◼   ► nerds [TS]

00:39:19 ◼   ► yes and the difference between the Nerds [TS]

00:39:24 ◼   ► that you know that play Dungeons and [TS]

00:39:28 ◼   ► Dragons and nerds that were actually [TS]

00:39:29 ◼   ► trying to learn sword Smith three you [TS]

00:39:37 ◼   ► remember there were you know they were [TS]

00:39:39 ◼   ► real nerds even when we were nerds who [TS]

00:39:42 ◼   ► were just a dimension beyond like the [TS]

00:39:45 ◼   ► guys who talked about swords there was a [TS]

00:39:49 ◼   ► good there's a kid in my ninth grade [TS]

00:39:51 ◼   ► science class who was a friend of mine [TS]

00:39:53 ◼   ► we talked about we talked about fantasy [TS]

00:39:57 ◼   ► writing and science fiction together and [TS]

00:40:00 ◼   ► we enjoyed Dungeons and Dragons culture [TS]

00:40:04 ◼   ► but he had notebooks full of designs of [TS]

00:40:10 ◼   ► swords that he was sincere about [TS]

00:40:14 ◼   ► learning the ancient arts swordmaking [TS]

00:40:20 ◼   ► 222 craft these swords to shoo them out [TS]

00:40:25 ◼   ► of the metal and i remember at the time [TS]

00:40:29 ◼   ► feeling like you know that there that [TS]

00:40:33 ◼   ► that is you are choosing to pursue [TS]

00:40:38 ◼   ► esoterica down a rabbit hole to the end [TS]

00:40:44 ◼   ► like swordmaking is never going it's not [TS]

00:40:47 ◼   ► relevant it's never going to be relevant [TS]

00:40:49 ◼   ► now it's you are on a siding and i [TS]

00:40:54 ◼   ► appreciate like that that I appreciate [TS]

00:40:58 ◼   ► the art I appreciate the history I [TS]

00:41:00 ◼   ► appreciate everything about it but [TS]

00:41:02 ◼   ► and I think there was a part of what [TS]

00:41:03 ◼   ► what what what made it possible for him [TS]

00:41:07 ◼   ► or what made it exciting was that there [TS]

00:41:12 ◼   ► was a part of the fantasy where he [TS]

00:41:16 ◼   ► believed that maybe one day civilization [TS]

00:41:20 ◼   ► would crumble and swords would be the [TS]

00:41:24 ◼   ► way we interact with each other again [TS]

00:41:26 ◼   ► telling a freethinker like you know [TS]

00:41:28 ◼   ► you're not a political way but I mean [TS]

00:41:29 ◼   ► like he's definitely he's got his own [TS]

00:41:30 ◼   ► thoughts about how stuff is going to go [TS]

00:41:33 ◼   ► he's not he's not doing it to be cool [TS]

00:41:35 ◼   ► he's not doing it because you know it's [TS]

00:41:37 ◼   ► the next obvious step given that his [TS]

00:41:38 ◼   ► father's a swordsmith he's got a larger [TS]

00:41:40 ◼   ► world view [TS]

00:41:41 ◼   ► yeah and I feel like there's a there's a [TS]

00:41:44 ◼   ► part of steampunk culture renfaire [TS]

00:41:47 ◼   ► culture fantasy culture cosplay culture [TS]

00:41:52 ◼   ► that is that it the there are under [TS]

00:41:58 ◼   ► under threads undertones of apocalypse [TS]

00:42:02 ◼   ► in those things you know people are [TS]

00:42:06 ◼   ► aware that they are in my charity and [TS]

00:42:10 ◼   ► they are enjoying these cultures and and [TS]

00:42:13 ◼   ► I cannot help but feel like they all [TS]

00:42:16 ◼   ► secretly hope that the grid goes down [TS]

00:42:21 ◼   ► certainly can read done a little bit [TS]

00:42:24 ◼   ► that these are red dawn fantasies and [TS]

00:42:26 ◼   ► that when the grid does go down their [TS]

00:42:30 ◼   ► swords smithing there uh you know the [TS]

00:42:33 ◼   ► fact that they can cook a hearty meal in [TS]

00:42:35 ◼   ► a kettle the fact that they know how to [TS]

00:42:38 ◼   ► entertain themselves with just a flute [TS]

00:42:40 ◼   ► and foot bells they've dealt with in [TS]

00:42:43 ◼   ► period lice and that's right that's [TS]

00:42:46 ◼   ► right thing in the civil war thing you [TS]

00:42:48 ◼   ► gotta it's okay if you have please like [TS]

00:42:49 ◼   ► that makes it more realistic [TS]

00:42:50 ◼   ► yeah you figure figure out the fleas in [TS]

00:42:52 ◼   ► the lights you figure out that that [TS]

00:42:55 ◼   ► though that suddenly those skills which [TS]

00:42:57 ◼   ► we all thought were laughable are going [TS]

00:42:59 ◼   ► to be are going to come in very handy [TS]

00:43:02 ◼   ► and the traveling minstrels and the and [TS]

00:43:07 ◼   ► the the jugglers and the Juggalos [TS]

00:43:10 ◼   ► what are all technology just waiting for [TS]

00:43:14 ◼   ► the apocalypse they are and I and I feel [TS]

00:43:16 ◼   ► like I mean and this may be the the this [TS]

00:43:18 ◼   ► may be my cold war childhood speaking [TS]

00:43:21 ◼   ► but I cannot help but think all these [TS]

00:43:23 ◼   ► alternative cultures are in some ways [TS]

00:43:26 ◼   ► secret apocalypse cults and everybody is [TS]

00:43:30 ◼   ► privately preparing for what they have [TS]

00:43:33 ◼   ► because this is absolutely true [TS]

00:43:34 ◼   ► on the flipside like all the gun nuts [TS]

00:43:37 ◼   ► all the survivalists all the people who [TS]

00:43:39 ◼   ► are more out about what they call [TS]

00:43:44 ◼   ► preparing for the race riots or [TS]

00:43:48 ◼   ► preparing for the water wars are [TS]

00:43:50 ◼   ► preparing for the when the government [TS]

00:43:53 ◼   ► comes and what they're really doing is [TS]

00:43:55 ◼   ► fantasizing about those things they're [TS]

00:43:57 ◼   ► praying for those eventualities because [TS]

00:44:01 ◼   ► their preparation is like it's so [TS]

00:44:04 ◼   ► excited they're so enthusiastic about it [TS]

00:44:08 ◼   ► they are hoping to God that the grid [TS]

00:44:12 ◼   ► goes down and that they are defending [TS]

00:44:14 ◼   ► their homes against hordes and anna and [TS]

00:44:20 ◼   ► i really feel like like the fantasy [TS]

00:44:22 ◼   ► world and the and the what we you know [TS]

00:44:25 ◼   ► what we think of as the nerd world at [TS]

00:44:29 ◼   ► least the at least the steampunky ran [TS]

00:44:31 ◼   ► fairy artisanal craftsman side of things [TS]

00:44:36 ◼   ► it's also like suddenly prepping for the [TS]

00:44:41 ◼   ► for the end times in and the other did [TS]

00:44:43 ◼   ► never never thought of that because when [TS]

00:44:45 ◼   ► you think about somebody you know that [TS]

00:44:47 ◼   ► the typical thing would be when you say [TS]

00:44:49 ◼   ► like not even renfaire just like a [TS]

00:44:50 ◼   ► medieval Middle Ages kind of dressup [TS]

00:44:53 ◼   ► thinking why would you want to spend [TS]

00:44:55 ◼   ► your weekend acting like you're living [TS]

00:44:57 ◼   ► in this really squalid time with no [TS]

00:44:59 ◼   ► resources and you know horrible health [TS]

00:45:03 ◼   ► conditions and terrible food and if you [TS]

00:45:05 ◼   ► look at instead instead of looking to [TS]

00:45:07 ◼   ► the past and pining is the instead of [TS]

00:45:09 ◼   ► thinking let's look into the future and [TS]

00:45:10 ◼   ► preparing yeah thats turkey leg is going [TS]

00:45:12 ◼   ► to look pretty good couple years I think [TS]

00:45:15 ◼   ► what they're doing is making apocalypse [TS]

00:45:16 ◼   ► fun [TS]

00:45:17 ◼   ► and and you know and its really like the [TS]

00:45:23 ◼   ► tech people who are right in the middle [TS]

00:45:26 ◼   ► of the culture who are you know the tech [TS]

00:45:30 ◼   ► people are betting that everything keeps [TS]

00:45:34 ◼   ► going you know protect people are laying [TS]

00:45:37 ◼   ► the groundwork for the fact that the [TS]

00:45:40 ◼   ► grid does not go down and that really [TS]

00:45:42 ◼   ► the skill sets that are going to be [TS]

00:45:44 ◼   ► needed in the future our skill sets [TS]

00:45:47 ◼   ► built on what we're doing now and it's [TS]

00:45:51 ◼   ► like that conversation i had with [TS]

00:45:53 ◼   ► jonathan coulton many years ago when you [TS]

00:45:56 ◼   ► know when my daughter was born his kids [TS]

00:45:59 ◼   ► are a little bit older than mine and I [TS]

00:46:01 ◼   ► was like you know I was expressing my [TS]

00:46:03 ◼   ► kind of hippie like suspicion of screen [TS]

00:46:06 ◼   ► time [TS]

00:46:06 ◼   ► well i don't think i'm going to you know [TS]

00:46:08 ◼   ► i don't think i'm likely going to let my [TS]

00:46:10 ◼   ► kid what you look very interesting [TS]

00:46:11 ◼   ► thoughts on that that really have [TS]

00:46:12 ◼   ► heavily influenced me [TS]

00:46:14 ◼   ► yeah and he he was like well why are you [TS]

00:46:16 ◼   ► doing that like all they're going to [TS]

00:46:19 ◼   ► have our screens in the future where [TS]

00:46:22 ◼   ► we're going [TS]

00:46:23 ◼   ► the future where we're going where [TS]

00:46:25 ◼   ► that's going to be their lot they're [TS]

00:46:27 ◼   ► lighter in which we will spend the rest [TS]

00:46:29 ◼   ► of our lives right and so the longer you [TS]

00:46:32 ◼   ► deprive her of screens it's like you are [TS]

00:46:36 ◼   ► it's like you are refusing to let her [TS]

00:46:38 ◼   ► use a fork because they didn't use to [TS]

00:46:41 ◼   ► have Forks or something like these are [TS]

00:46:43 ◼   ► tools things like a even ate like to me [TS]

00:46:45 ◼   ► this is super productive but might that [TS]

00:46:47 ◼   ► I walked away with thinking well you [TS]

00:46:49 ◼   ► know I i want i read so much bullshit i [TS]

00:46:52 ◼   ► don't like to my daughter but she wants [TS]

00:46:55 ◼   ► to read it so it doesn't matter if it's [TS]

00:46:57 ◼   ► barbie or my little pony or green [TS]

00:46:59 ◼   ► lantern like I will read it to her [TS]

00:47:01 ◼   ► because she wants to be read to [TS]

00:47:03 ◼   ► I want her to hear lots of words I want [TS]

00:47:05 ◼   ► her to read lots of words and if those [TS]

00:47:07 ◼   ► are the words to get her excited that's [TS]

00:47:09 ◼   ► good i i music there's a part of me that [TS]

00:47:11 ◼   ► I really admit this is reductive but [TS]

00:47:12 ◼   ► after to having that conversation with [TS]

00:47:14 ◼   ► with you know we have different names [TS]

00:47:16 ◼   ► John that falling really different sides [TS]

00:47:17 ◼   ► of the fence about this it's interesting [TS]

00:47:18 ◼   ► to talk to them about this [TS]

00:47:20 ◼   ► no yeah they argue with one another and [TS]

00:47:23 ◼   ► still they still do but you know but for [TS]

00:47:25 ◼   ► me it's like that's the new literacy [TS]

00:47:27 ◼   ► like it just doesn't feel like literacy [TS]

00:47:28 ◼   ► to us I so what I say to my daughter [TS]

00:47:31 ◼   ► you're only allowed to look at [TS]

00:47:32 ◼   ► educational books for an hour a day I [TS]

00:47:34 ◼   ► know it's not exactly the same thing you [TS]

00:47:37 ◼   ► can look at books but they need to be [TS]

00:47:38 ◼   ► educational there was a time when people [TS]

00:47:40 ◼   ► thought books were like or something [TS]

00:47:41 ◼   ► they're gonna be really upsetting a time [TS]

00:47:43 ◼   ► with a you know theocracy in place like [TS]

00:47:45 ◼   ► that's really dangerous information [TS]

00:47:46 ◼   ► well I mean I feel like even when she's [TS]

00:47:48 ◼   ► playing monument valley like even when [TS]

00:47:50 ◼   ► she's trying to buy and failing thank [TS]

00:47:52 ◼   ► God to buy buy toys for talking a [TS]

00:47:54 ◼   ► cartoon cat on a screen like at the same [TS]

00:47:56 ◼   ► time she's learning to manipulate that [TS]

00:47:57 ◼   ► she's learned that she's learning to [TS]

00:47:59 ◼   ► type a little bit and I didn't really [TS]

00:48:01 ◼   ► learn to type until I was like 18 right [TS]

00:48:04 ◼   ► and Mike my God if you don't have that I [TS]

00:48:06 ◼   ► mean god bless the people who don't play [TS]

00:48:08 ◼   ► their kids recorded music and make them [TS]

00:48:10 ◼   ► play with blocks [TS]

00:48:11 ◼   ► haha we have a friend who goes to [TS]

00:48:13 ◼   ► waldorf and water is a very interesting [TS]

00:48:15 ◼   ► educational program but it on the face [TS]

00:48:18 ◼   ► of it freaks me out a little bit like my [TS]

00:48:20 ◼   ► psu group also well I don't know enough [TS]

00:48:23 ◼   ► about it everybody does what r says it's [TS]

00:48:24 ◼   ► not as bad as it sounds but you know the [TS]

00:48:26 ◼   ► idea is it's really all about playing [TS]

00:48:27 ◼   ► playing play which is great but like you [TS]

00:48:29 ◼   ► play with fairly simple toys and you're [TS]

00:48:31 ◼   ► not supposed to listen to recorded music [TS]

00:48:32 ◼   ► you've never let you never do anything [TS]

00:48:34 ◼   ► with screens at all until a certain age [TS]

00:48:36 ◼   ► and anyway I don't be productive about [TS]

00:48:38 ◼   ► it but like for me like I feel like [TS]

00:48:40 ◼   ► somewhat my life has been made so much [TS]

00:48:42 ◼   ► better and frustrating sometimes [TS]

00:48:44 ◼   ► bye-bye this computer stuff but we have [TS]

00:48:46 ◼   ► to understand that back to your thing [TS]

00:48:47 ◼   ► about the Millennials we still think [TS]

00:48:48 ◼   ► about this computer stuff for them [TS]

00:48:50 ◼   ► that's just life in the sooner like she [TS]

00:48:52 ◼   ► gets good at that version of life the [TS]

00:48:54 ◼   ► more prepared she'll be to make good [TS]

00:48:55 ◼   ► decisions when that stuff gets weird [TS]

00:48:57 ◼   ► which it will in a couple years right [TS]

00:48:59 ◼   ► anyway I've never so far off george RR [TS]

00:49:02 ◼   ► martin but-but-but but-but-but in what [TS]

00:49:05 ◼   ► you're saying so I swear I I feel like I [TS]

00:49:08 ◼   ► feel like it's very interesting how much [TS]

00:49:10 ◼   ► how how many trends in the popular [TS]

00:49:16 ◼   ► culture in and sort of every direction [TS]

00:49:18 ◼   ► of every political stripe can be traced [TS]

00:49:22 ◼   ► back to a kind of 222 an apocalypse [TS]

00:49:27 ◼   ► origin story and the mainstream [TS]

00:49:33 ◼   ► culture just putters along in a state of [TS]

00:49:35 ◼   ► of like unreflective mass of block step [TS]

00:49:42 ◼   ► informant even the negative thinking is [TS]

00:49:44 ◼   ► that things will get worse in a way that [TS]

00:49:46 ◼   ► will mostly understand [TS]

00:49:47 ◼   ► yeah right its gonna be like oh but you [TS]

00:49:50 ◼   ► know it's gonna be hard it's gonna be [TS]

00:49:51 ◼   ► harder to it's gonna be harder to get a [TS]

00:49:53 ◼   ► my shade of lipstick in the future [TS]

00:49:56 ◼   ► because uh because apparently it's not [TS]

00:50:00 ◼   ► as your Selina Kyle and the dark knight [TS]

00:50:02 ◼   ► rises like great cosmetics after she got [TS]

00:50:06 ◼   ► off the electricity [TS]

00:50:07 ◼   ► she really did and I did I can only [TS]

00:50:09 ◼   ► assume that she spent all the time she [TS]

00:50:11 ◼   ► wasn't on screen like up at macys going [TS]

00:50:14 ◼   ► through the darkened I think it's clear [TS]

00:50:16 ◼   ► that she moved into account a mac [TS]

00:50:17 ◼   ► cosmetics store before being shut off [TS]

00:50:19 ◼   ► all the attack [TS]

00:50:20 ◼   ► yes and she's just to disappear for a [TS]

00:50:22 ◼   ► while you'd be like where did you know [TS]

00:50:24 ◼   ► did you notice that I was like personal [TS]

00:50:25 ◼   ► and halfway very beautiful woman but [TS]

00:50:27 ◼   ► like which everybody else [TS]

00:50:29 ◼   ► it looks like half a Dickens character [TS]

00:50:30 ◼   ► that she looks amazing [TS]

00:50:33 ◼   ► well this is the thing I think a lot of [TS]

00:50:34 ◼   ► the female superheroes what we forget is [TS]

00:50:36 ◼   ► that their mask is makeup right they [TS]

00:50:40 ◼   ► don't [TS]

00:50:41 ◼   ► the female superheroes often do not wear [TS]

00:50:42 ◼   ► masks because they because they're [TS]

00:50:45 ◼   ► pretty face is necessary and so Batman [TS]

00:50:48 ◼   ► and bein have these hideous the [TS]

00:50:50 ◼   ► appendages on their faces [TS]

00:50:53 ◼   ► she is you know it's it's a it's a [TS]

00:50:57 ◼   ► skin-tight bodysuit and a animated face [TS]

00:51:00 ◼   ► like that's her costume but in any case [TS]

00:51:04 ◼   ► the tech people are the ones that are [TS]

00:51:07 ◼   ► curious to me because they are not part [TS]

00:51:10 ◼   ► of the lockstep mass culture that is [TS]

00:51:12 ◼   ► just going into the future and [TS]

00:51:15 ◼   ► reflectively they often trend culturally [TS]

00:51:19 ◼   ► with with these like apocalypse and [TS]

00:51:22 ◼   ► modern primitive calls but everything [TS]

00:51:26 ◼   ► that they do is contingent on if a on [TS]

00:51:30 ◼   ► faith that technology and technology [TS]

00:51:35 ◼   ► will survive that progress is linear and [TS]

00:51:38 ◼   ► always you know always building on the [TS]

00:51:42 ◼   ► last thing and that [TS]

00:51:44 ◼   ► that you know that if your kid doesn't [TS]

00:51:48 ◼   ► learn the swipe gesture across asswipe [TS]

00:51:51 ◼   ► screen that 10 years from now they won't [TS]

00:51:55 ◼   ► they won't be able to even read a book [TS]

00:51:59 ◼   ► because everything will let the swiping [TS]

00:52:01 ◼   ► is like once but now that we're in a [TS]

00:52:04 ◼   ► swipe world everything will follow from [TS]

00:52:07 ◼   ► the swype and that's a that is a curious [TS]

00:52:12 ◼   ► kind of faith and a curious like [TS]

00:52:17 ◼   ► whatever the Articles of Confederation [TS]

00:52:19 ◼   ► are of people that go to Macworld and [TS]

00:52:24 ◼   ► are like tell us [TS]

00:52:26 ◼   ► oracle with what what are the new you [TS]

00:52:30 ◼   ► know are finding his lips [TS]

00:52:31 ◼   ► yeah what are the new swipes is plural [TS]

00:52:33 ◼   ► marriage allowed yet in at back world if [TS]

00:52:38 ◼   ► not it's only a matter of time like that [TS]

00:52:41 ◼   ► that whole that whole subset of and [TS]

00:52:44 ◼   ► which makes up a huge part of my world [TS]

00:52:46 ◼   ► the people that I know and r & m friends [TS]

00:52:50 ◼   ► with we discuss you at the meetings I [TS]

00:52:52 ◼   ► know you do online journal like and its [TS]

00:52:55 ◼   ► allies get see it there's a lot of [TS]

00:52:57 ◼   ► livejournal talk that's like when is [TS]

00:52:59 ◼   ► just when are we gonna finally when will [TS]

00:53:01 ◼   ► jontron into the room when well Jon [TS]

00:53:03 ◼   ► teach the swipe his negativity has [TS]

00:53:08 ◼   ► become problematic apocalypse apocalypse [TS]

00:53:13 ◼   ► george RR martin here here here was the [TS]

00:53:19 ◼   ► first story that george RR martin told [TS]

00:53:21 ◼   ► me I said how to you and your wife meet [TS]

00:53:24 ◼   ► and he said in the early seventies she [TS]

00:53:31 ◼   ► was she worked for Ringling Brothers [TS]

00:53:33 ◼   ► Circus and we went to a early convention [TS]

00:53:42 ◼   ► cut comics convention [TS]

00:53:45 ◼   ► and because it was the early seventies [TS]

00:53:47 ◼   ► there was an all like a women-only sauna [TS]

00:53:53 ◼   ► at the comics convention and I went into [TS]

00:53:59 ◼   ► the women's only sauna naked to liberate [TS]

00:54:04 ◼   ► the gender bias inherent you know in a [TS]

00:54:08 ◼   ► woman's only sana-i I went in there as [TS]

00:54:12 ◼   ► like a as a warrior men's rights warrior [TS]

00:54:17 ◼   ► so what's already 1971 or whatever [TS]

00:54:20 ◼   ► that's very courageous and she it's the [TS]

00:54:24 ◼   ► real oh she felt like there is no it was [TS]

00:54:28 ◼   ► very appealing my you know my bolt the [TS]

00:54:30 ◼   ► seasoning serious this is the real story [TS]

00:54:33 ◼   ► yeah and I was just like I mean I'm [TS]

00:54:38 ◼   ► standing on top of like a teetering pile [TS]

00:54:42 ◼   ► of like under stories or I'm just like [TS]

00:54:45 ◼   ► okay wait a minute now what will [TS]

00:54:47 ◼   ► she's she works for Ringling Brothers [TS]

00:54:49 ◼   ► you guys are at a at a world con there [TS]

00:54:52 ◼   ► is a woman's only sauna that you were [TS]

00:54:55 ◼   ► liberating and that's how you met and [TS]

00:55:00 ◼   ► he's like well I mean I was you know my [TS]

00:55:03 ◼   ► wife hit bottom of the hill [TS]

00:55:04 ◼   ► exactly he may your wife of john bands [TS]

00:55:08 ◼   ► like show he and he's like well and then [TS]

00:55:11 ◼   ► I married someone else for a period but [TS]

00:55:14 ◼   ► then we met again always look prettier [TS]

00:55:16 ◼   ► for Windows but I was like okay this is [TS]

00:55:20 ◼   ► all happening in 1971 this is a separate [TS]

00:55:23 ◼   ► thread of the culture that goes back a [TS]

00:55:29 ◼   ► long long time that he is one of the you [TS]

00:55:32 ◼   ► know he's one of the early early early [TS]

00:55:34 ◼   ► he said he you know worldcon was like a [TS]

00:55:36 ◼   ► big part of his his universe at a time [TS]

00:55:43 ◼   ► up the where with the the coach culture [TS]

00:55:49 ◼   ► at large and even the nerd historians [TS]

00:55:52 ◼   ► like have a hard time going that far [TS]

00:55:55 ◼   ► back in the culture to a time when like [TS]

00:55:58 ◼   ► I I so I and I swear to you that that [TS]

00:56:03 ◼   ► they they absolutely were probably [TS]

00:56:05 ◼   ► wearing puffy sleeve garments there [TS]

00:56:08 ◼   ► might have been a good jingle stick gets [TS]

00:56:12 ◼   ► our apt though and so I'm I'm like I am [TS]

00:56:16 ◼   ► so enthralled and so elated picturing [TS]

00:56:20 ◼   ► these nerds at the dawn of what we think [TS]

00:56:25 ◼   ► of as like fan culture and so his wife [TS]

00:56:30 ◼   ► is sitting there and I'm like tell me [TS]

00:56:32 ◼   ► your version of this story and she's [TS]

00:56:34 ◼   ► like well you know what Iowa i'm a fan I [TS]

00:56:37 ◼   ► am one of the early fans and we were the [TS]

00:56:40 ◼   ► first generation of people who recognize [TS]

00:56:42 ◼   ► that being a fan was its own thing and [TS]

00:56:49 ◼   ► I've spent my whole life as a fan of [TS]

00:56:51 ◼   ► science fiction and um and fantasy and [TS]

00:56:58 ◼   ► it's made a beautiful life for me so [TS]

00:57:02 ◼   ► that's lovely [TS]

00:57:03 ◼   ► it was extraordinary extraordinary to [TS]

00:57:07 ◼   ► hear like that they were they created [TS]

00:57:12 ◼   ► that culture in the quiet in a way you [TS]

00:57:15 ◼   ► know what I mean like they were not [TS]

00:57:16 ◼   ► trying to interact with the larger [TS]

00:57:17 ◼   ► culture they found one another at these [TS]

00:57:20 ◼   ► at these comic cons and it was an [TS]

00:57:24 ◼   ► imperfect it was an imperfect center [TS]

00:57:29 ◼   ► probably but close enough for the circus [TS]

00:57:31 ◼   ► people and the burlesque people and the [TS]

00:57:34 ◼   ► vaudeville people and them fantasy and [TS]

00:57:37 ◼   ► science fiction people like they all [TS]

00:57:40 ◼   ► they all found each other in a way that [TS]

00:57:42 ◼   ► I think we think of we think of that [TS]

00:57:44 ◼   ► experiencing experience happening really [TS]

00:57:47 ◼   ► in modern times like that's the nerd [TS]

00:57:50 ◼   ► narrative but what you just described in [TS]

00:57:52 ◼   ► some ways is what how people talk about [TS]

00:57:54 ◼   ► things like Woodstock how you get that [TS]

00:57:56 ◼   ► mean i mean and i don't mean to sound [TS]

00:57:58 ◼   ► productive but I mean like in the same [TS]

00:57:59 ◼   ► sense of going like there was a time [TS]

00:58:00 ◼   ► when people who are really into free [TS]

00:58:02 ◼   ► speech and weed and free love and beat [TS]

00:58:08 ◼   ► poetry and all these things that now we [TS]

00:58:10 ◼   ► all just slapping the same pile [TS]

00:58:12 ◼   ► there was a time when the all the people [TS]

00:58:13 ◼   ► who are if you like outsiders of a [TS]

00:58:15 ◼   ► certain kind of middle-class you know [TS]

00:58:17 ◼   ► outsider like found a commonality in [TS]

00:58:19 ◼   ► that and now that all seems really [TS]

00:58:21 ◼   ► obvious but at the time it probably was [TS]

00:58:23 ◼   ► not that obvious [TS]

00:58:24 ◼   ► not at all and in this case it's even [TS]

00:58:26 ◼   ► more obscure the nerd thing was [TS]

00:58:27 ◼   ► contemporaneous with that and and yet a [TS]

00:58:30 ◼   ► tiny tiny fraction of the size of you [TS]

00:58:34 ◼   ► know like it was not general interest it [TS]

00:58:36 ◼   ► was very specific so so it's also like [TS]

00:58:40 ◼   ► one underground you know that's when [TS]

00:58:42 ◼   ► your when your body are chrome was [TS]

00:58:43 ◼   ► started to come out this rod up [TS]

00:58:44 ◼   ► underground comics were huge then for [TS]

00:58:47 ◼   ► its the cabs are old you know which is [TS]

00:58:49 ◼   ► franco is doing with with Marvel stuff [TS]

00:58:51 ◼   ► was pretty out there that [TS]

00:58:53 ◼   ► yeah right never then everybody's [TS]

00:58:55 ◼   ► getting hi to her but so so meeting him [TS]

00:58:59 ◼   ► and his wife and seeing their connection [TS]

00:59:02 ◼   ► to this culture and then he has cs4 [TS]

00:59:04 ◼   ► assistance George RR Martin's for [TS]

00:59:06 ◼   ► systems whom he describes as his minions [TS]

00:59:09 ◼   ► they describe themselves as his main [TS]

00:59:11 ◼   ► lights right all four of them are women [TS]

00:59:16 ◼   ► who are a little zaftig who have dark [TS]

00:59:22 ◼   ► curly hair but they wear in braids and [TS]

00:59:27 ◼   ► one of them is British there couple that [TS]

00:59:28 ◼   ► are like a Americans one of them never I [TS]

00:59:32 ◼   ► never actually saw only heard spoken of [TS]

00:59:36 ◼   ► they're all like hilarious super-smart [TS]

00:59:40 ◼   ► like in their thirties or forties and [TS]

00:59:47 ◼   ► they act as his intermediaries as his [TS]

00:59:50 ◼   ► planners as his you know they're there [TS]

00:59:54 ◼   ► more than assistance you know they're [TS]

00:59:56 ◼   ► like executive assistants but like there [TS]

00:59:58 ◼   ► are four of them and they interact with [TS]

00:59:59 ◼   ► one [TS]

00:59:59 ◼   ► one [TS]

01:00:00 ◼   ► another seamlessly like it's a culture [TS]

01:00:02 ◼   ► night at hand and it's very captivating [TS]

01:00:09 ◼   ► and been like why and you know when they [TS]

01:00:11 ◼   ► kind of a flirt with him and he flirts [TS]

01:00:13 ◼   ► with them like it's a their interactions [TS]

01:00:16 ◼   ► are very flirty and it and it's exactly [TS]

01:00:20 ◼   ► the way that people on the jonathan [TS]

01:00:23 ◼   ► coulton cruise or people at Comicon [TS]

01:00:25 ◼   ► interact with one another [TS]

01:00:27 ◼   ► you know I've seen it before I've seen [TS]

01:00:29 ◼   ► this culture before where it's there's a [TS]

01:00:32 ◼   ► lot of flirtation there's a lot of [TS]

01:00:34 ◼   ► sexual energy combination like [TS]

01:00:37 ◼   ► confidence and lightness sometimes you [TS]

01:00:39 ◼   ► know what i mean but isn't it kind of [TS]

01:00:40 ◼   ► like oh I'm I don't know what I'm doing [TS]

01:00:42 ◼   ► I'm a flighty idiot but now like the [TS]

01:00:45 ◼   ► smart people but we're very confident [TS]

01:00:46 ◼   ► and as you like to say like aren't [TS]

01:00:48 ◼   ► asking for your approval about how this [TS]

01:00:50 ◼   ► is going exactly and I think if you if [TS]

01:00:52 ◼   ► you got into a political conversation [TS]

01:00:54 ◼   ► with anyone of them their politics would [TS]

01:00:56 ◼   ► be absolutely dead on you know what I [TS]

01:00:58 ◼   ► mean like there there's no it isn't a it [TS]

01:01:02 ◼   ► isn't a a patriarchal cult-like all [TS]

01:01:05 ◼   ► these women are fully empowered and yet [TS]

01:01:08 ◼   ► they are play-acting a kind of sexuality [TS]

01:01:13 ◼   ► and george RR martin is the is the Papa [TS]

01:01:16 ◼   ► figure and everybody's very comfortable [TS]

01:01:19 ◼   ► with that they're very comfortable with [TS]

01:01:21 ◼   ► with I mean you know this is a guy who [TS]

01:01:24 ◼   ► in the early seventies when liberated [TS]

01:01:26 ◼   ► the women sauna can't forget that you [TS]

01:01:28 ◼   ► know and and when I think about and a [TS]

01:01:30 ◼   ► husband and I had a long conversation [TS]

01:01:31 ◼   ► about this where we were both like you [TS]

01:01:34 ◼   ► know there were the nerve they were the [TS]

01:01:35 ◼   ► cool kids over here having sex with each [TS]

01:01:37 ◼   ► other and wearing polo shirts with the [TS]

01:01:39 ◼   ► collars up and going to beer parties and [TS]

01:01:42 ◼   ► then they're they're nerds over here [TS]

01:01:43 ◼   ► having sex with each other and go into [TS]

01:01:44 ◼   ► beer parties and wearing their velvet [TS]

01:01:47 ◼   ► collars popped or whatever and how the [TS]

01:01:51 ◼   ► fuck did we end up being like right in [TS]

01:01:54 ◼   ► between in the in the narrowband [TS]

01:01:57 ◼   ► pinheiro cultural band of kids that just [TS]

01:01:59 ◼   ► weren't having sex with each other you [TS]

01:02:02 ◼   ► know we were sitting there silently [TS]

01:02:03 ◼   ► judging both cultures and in fact uh [TS]

01:02:08 ◼   ► sleeping the district slept alone every [TS]

01:02:11 ◼   ► single night [TS]

01:02:13 ◼   ► it's so I'd love John's describe it [TS]

01:02:16 ◼   ► might have been in it when the husband [TS]

01:02:18 ◼   ► interview Martin was a pretty [TS]

01:02:21 ◼   ► interesting interview but point John [TS]

01:02:23 ◼   ► Hodgman was describing the way that he [TS]

01:02:25 ◼   ► dressed when he was in high school here [TS]

01:02:27 ◼   ► to talk about this like kind of a doctor [TS]

01:02:29 ◼   ► who thing going on he carried a [TS]

01:02:31 ◼   ► briefcase he had a ponytail yeah yeah he [TS]

01:02:34 ◼   ► was you know he was working working a [TS]

01:02:37 ◼   ► lot of different angles and figure out [TS]

01:02:38 ◼   ► which one was going to be coming [TS]

01:02:39 ◼   ► together like a lot of people cobbling [TS]

01:02:41 ◼   ► together your own idea of what cool was [TS]

01:02:43 ◼   ► with without you know much outside [TS]

01:02:45 ◼   ► influenced this dear you want another [TS]

01:02:48 ◼   ► yeah I i understood that uh I my mom [TS]

01:02:53 ◼   ► would not buy me an izod shirt because [TS]

01:02:56 ◼   ► they were $85 or something like that at [TS]

01:02:59 ◼   ► a time when you could get a shirt with a [TS]

01:03:00 ◼   ► little fire breathing dragon on it from [TS]

01:03:02 ◼   ► sears for fourteen dollars right and uh [TS]

01:03:06 ◼   ► I remember going to the fabric store [TS]

01:03:08 ◼   ► with her one day when I was in ninth [TS]

01:03:13 ◼   ► grade or something like that which is [TS]

01:03:14 ◼   ► already like you're going to the fabric [TS]

01:03:15 ◼   ► store with your mom in ninth grade loser [TS]

01:03:19 ◼   ► and I'm walking through the fabric store [TS]

01:03:21 ◼   ► and there's a little embroidered [TS]

01:03:23 ◼   ► alligator do but she's he's like he's a [TS]

01:03:29 ◼   ► happy alligator this island clearly not [TS]

01:03:33 ◼   ► the look at southgate he's about twice [TS]

01:03:35 ◼   ► as big as the cost allegorical and he's [TS]

01:03:37 ◼   ► like looking at the least looking at the [TS]

01:03:39 ◼   ► viewer and maybe even is giving a [TS]

01:03:42 ◼   ► thumbs-up and I said you know what [TS]

01:03:48 ◼   ► that's my alligator and i bought it and [TS]

01:03:51 ◼   ► I had it sewn on [TS]

01:03:53 ◼   ► [Music] [TS]

01:03:55 ◼   ► I had it sewn on actually my Levi's [TS]

01:03:57 ◼   ► jacket and then like smiling alligator [TS]

01:04:03 ◼   ► was my little motif and and I I i might [TS]

01:04:08 ◼   ► even had it i bought a second one and [TS]

01:04:10 ◼   ► had its own my ski sweater you know like [TS]

01:04:12 ◼   ► I was I like Laverne with al [TS]

01:04:15 ◼   ► yeah except there's a smiling alligator [TS]

01:04:17 ◼   ► pears up and I was like I firmly [TS]

01:04:20 ◼   ► believed that I would be respected and [TS]

01:04:23 ◼   ► loved for my hilarious [TS]

01:04:26 ◼   ► outsider take on being an insider and we [TS]

01:04:31 ◼   ► will be constant version who made I was [TS]

01:04:33 ◼   ► just reviled I was reviled by everyone [TS]

01:04:37 ◼   ► no one liked it no one thought it was [TS]

01:04:40 ◼   ► good you know and I was so proud like [TS]

01:04:42 ◼   ► you know smart my smile an alligator [TS]

01:04:45 ◼   ► check me out [TS]

01:04:46 ◼   ► I you know I get it right no wrong [TS]

01:04:51 ◼   ► although you know maybe yes maybe if I [TS]

01:04:53 ◼   ► just stuck around in my smile an [TS]

01:04:55 ◼   ► alligator 10 long enough [TS]

01:04:58 ◼   ► good now you know I'd now be at the at [TS]

01:05:02 ◼   ► the center of some you know some advil [TS]

01:05:06 ◼   ► burlesque culture think of all the songs [TS]

01:05:08 ◼   ► you can deliver haha [TS]

01:05:14 ◼   ► [Music] [TS]